HG Meeting 2009/02/20

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More support for a web-client interface to the inventory server.


[10:11]  diva: it's back; I hate those frozen moements
[10:11]  nebadon: ya
[10:12]  nebadon: yesterday for the 1st time ever
[10:12]  nebadon: we had a sim recover from a failed heartbeat
[10:12]  nebadon: had several people log into a blue region no prims or terrain
[10:12]  nebadon: so i let it sit for 30 minutes hoping it would crash
[10:12]  nebadon: only to find out it recovered
[10:12]  nebadon: and was fine
[10:13]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hey
[10:13]  Crista Lopes: hi Stefan!
[10:14]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: :D
[10:14]  Crista Lopes: MIc was here before, but he was probably thrown out too when this froze
[10:14]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I don't see you, I think
[10:14]  Crista Lopes: yoo-hoo!
[10:15]  Crista Lopes: over here at the corner
[10:15]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: there you are!
[10:16]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Tee hee
[10:16]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I just attached a script to a tree
[10:16]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that was fun
[10:16]  Unable to load gesture /smile.
Please try again.
[10:16]  Crista Lopes: did it grow?
[10:16]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: just as a comment to the whole 'tree' issue
[10:16]  Crista Lopes: :)
[10:16]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, I just let it toggle between two sizes and positions
[10:16]  Crista Lopes: you're moving it?
[10:16]  Crista Lopes D
[10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: somebody else can probably do way cooler stuff with flexi on and stuff. :D
[10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yeah, a tree is like any prim, just special values
[10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so, I attached a lsl script to it
[10:17]  Crista Lopes: well, let's talk about interoperability
[10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes
[10:17]  Crista Lopes: did yo uget to see the summary from last meeting?
[10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Is Mic going to attend?
[10:18]  Crista Lopes: Hope so... but he'll jump right on
[10:18]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: hm, do you have the url from that meeting?
[10:18]  Crista Lopes: hold on
[10:18]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I browsed it when you sent it
[10:18]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but didn't read it in detail
[10:18]  Crista Lopes: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/HG_Meeting_2009/02/06
[10:18]  Crista Lopes: yuo can just read the summary on top
[10:19]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup
[10:19]  Crista Lopes: one of the main architectural decisions here is whether to continue to assume the LL client or not
[10:19]  Crista Lopes: we can continue to hack around it to give a sense of security
[10:20]  Crista Lopes: but those are hacks
[10:20]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think any project would pay a heavy penalty for not using the LL client as it stands today.
[10:20]  Fly-Man- parts #opensim-gateway7000
[10:20]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: But have you talked to Zha about that?
[10:20]  Crista Lopes: no
[10:20]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: they are in a really weird situation with drafting a protocol wiht no real means to execute  it .
[10:21]  Crista Lopes: yeah, well that's their problem.
[10:21]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I do believe quite a lot can be done with 'hacks' - the point being, that those hacks point  to a working solution
[10:21]  Bob.Wellman @pmgrid.julpet.ath.cx:8002: Hello
[10:21]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: which will probably create the incentive to solve it in a more reasonable manner
[10:21]  Crista Lopes: yes. So here's a thought
[10:22]  Crista Lopes: inspired by someone else who had suggested this to Teravus about money
[10:22]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: The Client proxy is an interesting thing that has been brought up several times
[10:22]  Crista Lopes: and how a lot of things are done on the internet
[10:22]  Crista Lopes: callback, confirmation URLs
[10:22]  Crista Lopes: like this:
[10:22]  Crista Lopes: I pull out something from my inventory
[10:23]  Crista Lopes: My inventory server will send an URL asking me to confirm
[10:23]  Crista Lopes: this URL can either be relayed via the region or... sent directly from the inventory server to the viewer
[10:24]  Crista Lopes: the idea would be to identify these operations that are inherently insecure, where we don't trust the regions,  and add calls backs from the trusted servers
[10:24]  Crista Lopes: this is a hack
[10:24]  Crista Lopes: to be able to use this viewer
[10:24]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Yes. Then again, I thik an simpler solution is to have trust zones
[10:25]  Crista Lopes: sure.
[10:25]  Crista Lopes: but I'm veru skeptical about that in general
[10:25]  Crista Lopes: trust is not a black & white thing
[10:25]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that the regions have to provide two tokens, one to prove that they are who they are, and  one that they contain the user
[10:25]  Crista Lopes: yes, but even if they do that they can still do evil
[10:26]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: no, I know, but most oftenly, people just want to do simple things
[10:26]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well, an 'untrusted' region would not be allowed to do anything, basically.
[10:26]  Crista Lopes: and who defines trust?
[10:26]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: the authority that the user has chosen.
[10:27]  Crista Lopes: quite honestly, I think that whole trust spiel is just broken
[10:27]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: nothing strange about that.
[10:27]  Crista Lopes: nah, I don't buy that in the general case
[10:27]  Crista Lopes: I may trust Intel servers for some things but not for others
[10:27]  Crista Lopes: trust is a spectrum
[10:27]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well, what would be the immediate need for hypergrids?
[10:27]  Crista Lopes: exchange
[10:27]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: obviously, that malicious regions can trash inventory ?
[10:28]  Crista Lopes: yes, that's the pertinent threat
[10:28]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, but each trust point boils down to a 'yes' or a 'no'.
[10:28]  Crista Lopes: that's the thing we need to fix right now
[10:28]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: the spectrum is the collection of trust points.
[10:28]  Crista Lopes: but it's a yes or a no that's not in bulk
[10:28]  Crista Lopes: it depends on the context of what youre doing
[10:29]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, but apply the context, and it still boils down to a 'yes' or 'no'.
[10:29]  melanie_t quits saying ":Success"
[10:29]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: So, it's modelling the context.
[10:29]  Crista Lopes: Yes or no to specific actions
[10:29]  Crista Lopes: not to specific hosts
[10:29]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: given context, of course
[10:29]  Crista Lopes: I would like to be able to visit a host that I know nothing about, and know that my inventory is safe
[10:29]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, I'd start with the coarse grain and work towards the finer
[10:29]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: easy fast wins
[10:30]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, the immediate solution would be to have 'home' and 'foreign' regions
[10:30]  Crista Lopes: but for that we really need to get out of that whole concept of trust domains -- I'm just not buying it
[10:30]  Crista Lopes: yes -- home vs everywhere else
[10:30]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup
[10:30]  Crista Lopes: if it's not home, it can't be trusted, period
[10:31]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes
[10:31]  Crista Lopes: not if IBM and LL want to set up something cozy among them fine
[10:31]  Crista Lopes: not=now
[10:31]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and home should probably be a range of regions?
[10:31]  Crista Lopes: but that's not a solution in general
[10:31]  Crista Lopes: yes, it can be
[10:31]  Crista Lopes: it really is a UGAIM, I think
[10:31]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so, how do we define that?
[10:31]  Crista Lopes: I think it's alreasy in the Hypergrid
[10:32]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, the ugaim is sliwly being torn apart
[10:32]  Crista Lopes: you're either in your home grid or you're in a foreign grid
[10:32]  ocsean joins #opensim-gateway7000
[10:32]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, but I can have malicious regions on osgrid
[10:32]  Crista Lopes: right, osgrid is another matter.
[10:32]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so while I trust the ugaim, I only trust a given set of regions
[10:32]  Crista Lopes: right
[10:33]  Crista Lopes: actually the base case is: my home region
[10:33]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup
[10:33]  Crista Lopes: then we can have an interface that extends that
[10:33]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup
[10:33]  Crista Lopes: and those extended regions of trust don't need to be on the same grid even
[10:33]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and the 'haven' region is something that can be configured in a web interface
[10:33]  Crista Lopes: yes
[10:34]  BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: could grid bans work ----
[10:34]  Crista Lopes: but the base case really is the home region -- of of that can be extended via the web
[10:34]  Crista Lopes: then there's everywhere else
[10:34]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and, of course, by a node/leaf thinking, you _could_ put your trust in a grid
[10:34]  BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: say osgrid bans some malicious user, then others who hypergrid to OSG can have  that information propigated to them?
[10:34]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: if the grid is your trust boundary
[10:35]  Crista Lopes: yes. But I see all of that as management tools that can facilitate certain things
[10:35]  Crista Lopes: the base case is sims. Your home sim vs evewhere else
[10:35]  BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: I see OSG as a crossroads between many places
[10:35]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup. I believe the road to success, this early in the process, are easy wins with  demostrable effect
[10:35]  Crista Lopes: so here 's that scenario
[10:36]  Crista Lopes: inventory access in a foreign region
[10:36]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so, something like the ability to just say 'home region/grid'
[10:36]  Crista Lopes: yes.
[10:36]  Crista Lopes: now what to do outside
[10:36]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Yes. I think you were thinking the right way when you were thinking about moving the  inventory off the client and onto the web .
[10:36]  Crista Lopes: that's the interesting part
[10:37]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that the 'in-worl' inventory should be thought of only as the 'local inventory'
[10:37]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: local, as in local to the region
[10:37]  Crista Lopes: yes. what's the interaction with the user for accessing inventory in a foreign region
[10:37]  Crista Lopes: unfortunately, this viewer expects the items to come via the region
[10:37]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: his own, full and private inventory - the web
[10:37]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: in an web dialog, maybe
[10:38]  Crista Lopes: yes
[10:38]  Crista Lopes: but it could also be as simple as a confirmation URL
[10:38]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: it's a hack, but again, it would be enough for a proof-of-concept
[10:38]  Crista Lopes: yep
[10:38]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: As you described it (I might have misunderstood) it sounds a bit cumbersome?
[10:39]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: having to open up new dialogs for each action
[10:39]  Crista Lopes: well think. let me throw you the actions
[10:39]  Crista Lopes: you open your inventory
[10:39]  Crista Lopes: (the inventory is already cached in the viewer btw)
[10:39]  Crista Lopes: then you, say, create a notecard
[10:40]  Crista Lopes: now the malicious part of the story is...
[10:40]  Crista Lopes: that the region might be trying to spam your inventory with ad notecards
[10:40]  Crista Lopes: so the action of creating things on your inventory must have a green light from the user
[10:41]  Crista Lopes: that has to be done in some way
[10:41]  Crista Lopes: maybe a full-blown web interface
[10:41]  Crista Lopes: maybe a confirmation URL asking if you trust this region to serve as proxy
[10:42]  Crista Lopes: are you here?
[10:42]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: hmm.. by the way, isn't inventory creation over CAPS thee days?
[10:42]  Crista Lopes: no, I don't think so
[10:42]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: bummer
[10:42]  Crista Lopes: I wish it was
[10:43]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: we should probably have a real good look at what things we can force the viewer to do over  caps?
[10:43]  BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: financial transactions should be too?
[10:43]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Have anybody looked at that?
[10:43]  Crista Lopes: justincc has the war story about inventory over caps
[10:43]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: as in 'war for linden' or 'war for opensim'?
[10:44]  Crista Lopes: war for opensim
[10:44]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: okay? what is the problem? short story?
[10:44]  Crista Lopes: from what he described, the Lindens tried to do that, but it didn't work, so they went back to UDP
[10:44]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: okay, I need to get that war story
[10:44]  Crista Lopes: but...
[10:44]  Crista Lopes: how about this.
[10:45]  Crista Lopes: anyone can throw UDP packets at the viewer if they know their Endpoint, yes?
[10:45]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that we need to separate the cases a little bit - the case where the region is  trying to 'give' you something, and the case where you 'create' something
[10:45]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: hmmm
[10:46]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: let me have a look
[10:46]  Crista Lopes: yes, those are two different things, but for the inventory perspective they are the same
[10:47]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, they don't have to be
[10:47]  Crista Lopes: right, we need to make them different
[10:47]  Crista Lopes: somehow
[10:47]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: when the region tries to create something, that could be thought of the same thing as if  anybody was trying to give you something.
[10:47]  Crista Lopes: but both end up putting stuff in your inventory
[10:47]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes
[10:47]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but the paths don't need to be the same
[10:47]  Crista Lopes: and that's what the inv server sees
[10:47]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: when you create stuff, you could do that thru the web
[10:48]  Crista Lopes: yes, yo ucould
[10:48]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I mean, you could give stuff to people thru the web as well
[10:48]  Crista Lopes: yes, yo ucould
[10:48]  Crista Lopes: there's a lot of stuff that we can do via a web interface
[10:48]  Crista Lopes: that's essentially creating a web-client for the inv server
[10:48]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I would even go as far as to say that that ui could even be made even better than doing it  thru 3D
[10:48]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup
[10:48]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: And I think it's the way to go
[10:48]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: make it a web2.0 json service
[10:49]  Crista Lopes: sigh.
[10:49]  Crista Lopes hates web programming
[10:49]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: :]
[10:49]  Crista Lopes: :)
[10:49]  Crista Lopes: but yes, we can definitely do that
[10:49]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well. There a re more web programmers out there than 3D programmers
[10:49]  Crista Lopes: true. I'm not one of them, in my natural state of mind
[10:49]  Crista Lopes: :)
[10:49]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Thing is, I think that would prepare us better for tomorrow, when the hevy client goes out  the window
[10:50]  Crista Lopes: yes yo uare right
[10:50]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: if we get a light-weight web-based client
[10:50]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hell, I would make the facebook app
[10:50]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that serves as my personal inventory
[10:51]  Crista Lopes: well, that's the part about how much we should use this viewer from here on, really
[10:51]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, for as much as much as we can possible get for free, but not an ounce more
[10:51]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: imnsho
[10:51]  Crista Lopes: so do yo uwant to take a bite at that web client Stefan? :D
[10:51]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well yes, I could have a go
[10:51]  Crista Lopes: THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC!
[10:52]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I guess we just need to figure out a good starting proof
[10:52]  Crista Lopes: (my students are very scared when I use the word "fantastic" :-)
[10:52]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: now is where I shoudl be scared?
[10:52]  Crista Lopes: nah, just joking. :-)
[10:52]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think I actually have heard you say that on skype
[10:52]  Crista Lopes: it just measn a lot of work for them :-)
[10:52]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: didn't scare me. ;)
[10:52]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: So, yeah, given we have that first conceptual web thing
[10:53]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: what transaction wouldwe want to do there?
[10:53]  Crista Lopes: we can start by viewing our inventory
[10:53]  Crista Lopes: just browse
[10:53]  Crista Lopes: then all the other actions can be added
[10:53]  Crista Lopes: create items, delete items, copoy items, rename items, etc
[10:54]  Crista Lopes: then the 3rd batch which has to do with stuff hapenning inworld
[10:54]  Crista Lopes: give inventory for example
[10:54]  Crista Lopes: take stuff to inventory
[10:54]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hmmm. How can we launch a web viewer thru the client?
[10:54]  Crista Lopes: press F1
[10:54]  Crista Lopes: or click this: http://google.com/
[10:54]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Ah yeah, of course
[10:55]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: And that would take you to your 'home page'
[10:55]  Crista Lopes: yep
[10:55]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: on the login service
[10:55]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: when you logged on there, you would basically be forwarded to the inventory server
[10:56]  Crista Lopes: yes. and the user server will know where you are
[10:56]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: we don't really have any security on the inventory servers, right?
[10:56]  Crista Lopes: inworld that is
[10:56]  Crista Lopes: no, right now it's totally unprotected
[10:56]  Crista Lopes: just a sec
[10:56]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: the client viewer sends headers on gets?
[10:57]  Crista Lopes: I think so
[10:57]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yeah, well, I could start working on a very simple web ui right now, basically
[10:57]  Crista Lopes: oh yeah, and it may send the region info, although only in LL form
[10:57]  Crista Lopes: yes.
[10:57]  Crista Lopes: that would be really great
[10:58]  Crista Lopes: so basically we would ignore the inventory window of the LL viewer
[10:58]  Crista Lopes: and use the web
[10:58]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: actually, I think it has still got its uses
[10:58]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: if you think of it more as an ui that the REGION provides
[10:58]  Crista Lopes: right
[10:59]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: you could think of the local inventory window as the regions inventory
[10:59]  Crista Lopes: yes, that's a good model
[10:59]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: or rather, the regions inventory for that user
[10:59]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: We could use it to have local library nodes
[10:59]  Crista Lopes: yes
[10:59]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and of course, the user could have a 'public' node in it
[10:59]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that any region could ask for, and get
[11:00]  Crista Lopes: yes. the suitcase
[11:00]  melanie_t joins #opensim-gateway7000
[11:00]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: exactly
[11:00]  Crista Lopes: I like it
[11:00]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so yeah, I think that those operations can probably be made thru that
[11:00]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Also, the acts of dragging + dropping objects onto in-world objects
[11:01]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: is really convenient
[11:01]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and in your 'home' region, you could have an extra 'private' node
[11:01]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that was read+write
[11:01]  Crista Lopes: so in that case you'd have to synchronize the web interface with the viewer interface to inventory
[11:01]  Crista Lopes: I mean in foreign regions
[11:02]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: How do you mean?
[11:02]  Crista Lopes: if you want to preserve that gesture of dragging stuff out of inventory
[11:02]  Crista Lopes: like here for example
[11:02]  Crista Lopes: you are here, it's not your home region
[11:02]  Crista Lopes: you want to drag something onto the ground
[11:02]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that the public node would only ever be copy, in sl lingo
[11:03]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: you would only copy it
[11:03]  Crista Lopes: yes, but what if you want to rez something out of your inventory that is in your private folders?
[11:03]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I'm a bit unsure as of how the viewer bahaves, but I think there is some perms combination  that would do that?
[11:03]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: ah, you can't
[11:03]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: simply
[11:04]  Crista Lopes: ok, then scratch that synchronization I was talking about
[11:04]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: then you would have to move it to the public node, thru the web ui
[11:04]  Crista Lopes: yes, great
[11:04]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and of course, then you'd have to update the region
[11:04]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but that's... future
[11:04]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: So I think we have a list of items, don't we?
[11:04]  Crista Lopes: I think we have more than enough to start implementing :-)
[11:04]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 1) the notion of a 'home' zone
[11:05]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 2) Start working on a prototoype web inventory for 'out-world' acces
[11:06]  Crista Lopes: yes
[11:06]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 3) Creating a public node on hypergrid hosts, that can fetch a read-only copy of a 'public'  node in a users inventory
[11:06]  Crista Lopes: for that we really need to redo how inventory is handled
[11:06]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 4) Allowing for 'home' regions to access all inventory fully
[11:06]  Crista Lopes: yes
[11:07]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Crista how do you mean? I must admit I'm a bit sketchy on the inner workings of inventory.
[11:07]  Crista Lopes: well right now, inventory is always fetched from the inventory server onto the region everytime the avie moves
[11:07]  Crista Lopes: the whols shebang of inventory
[11:07]  Crista Lopes: well, at least the asset UUIDs
[11:08]  Crista Lopes: the regions have all that info
[11:08]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hm, I was kind of envisioning the regions providing some kind of authentication.
[11:08]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: And the inventory server tailoring the response to that.
[11:08]  Crista Lopes: yes, that's what I mean by having to change how things are done
[11:08]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes
[11:08]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: you're right, of course
[11:09]  Crista Lopes: ok, but authentication is something we need to inject in lots of places. I'm going to look into that next
[11:09]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that this could actually very easy be adapted to one of the current use cases I  have, where commercial Grid owners don't want certain content to be moved off their grid
[11:09]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: in that case, it's just a case of locking content to the 'private' node
[11:09]  Crista Lopes: yes
[11:09]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: or just not allowing them into the public'
[11:09]  Crista Lopes: yes
[11:10]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: That would go a long way for hypergrid acceptance, I think, with the commercials
[11:10]  Crista Lopes: well, we definitely need to do those kinds of controls
[11:10]  Crista Lopes: user level and service provider level too
[11:11]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes
[11:11]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but I think we have an action list
[11:11]  Crista Lopes: we do! :-)
[11:11]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: how do we decide if this is the right way to go?
[11:11]  Crista Lopes: and I need to run, I have student here
[11:11]  Crista Lopes: how about sending a message to -dev?
[11:11]  Crista Lopes: will yo udo that?
[11:11]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Is there a kind of hypergrid sub-community anywhere?
[11:11]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Sure
[11:12]  Crista Lopes: no. I didn't want to segregate
[11:12]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well, that's probably wise
[11:12]  Crista Lopes: it's all mixed together in -dev and -users
[11:12]  Crista Lopes: ok, look forward to see your message
[11:12]  Crista Lopes: I need to run
[11:13]  Crista Lopes: bye!
[11:13]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hm, one quick question, should the inventory ui be in the stadard service http servers, or  should they be offloaded as web apps?
[11:13]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: bye!
[11:13]  Crista Lopes: hmm, not sure...
[11:13]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I guess they should be standard
[11:13]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: then at least, we have one language. ;)
[11:14]  Crista Lopes: I don't do web programming that much, so you will know that better than I :)
[11:14]  Crista Lopes: bye!
[11:14]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: ya. Take care!
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