Chat log from the meeting on 2022-08-09

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[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Quiet bunch today
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: indeed.
[11:11] Jamie.Jordan i don't fear the drivers. They are much more likely to work than FS
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: vincent has a rl thing now..
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: np.
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Only changes to the code this past week have been some changes to ubODE.
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well about opensim code changes
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: yes that :)
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: again we do not have the bins for macs or linux 32bit
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: since i can't compile on those
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: guess it is getting harder for people to run in linux32bit now
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: most distros do not support it
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: no idea why
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: me nods
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Distros have mostly moved to 64-bit
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: there is still good work silicon out that
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: there
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: working also :)
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: and some do support more rare cpus, no one really has
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: well  things..
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: If Gavin were here, we could ask about the status of OpenSim on Raspberry Pi in 32 or 64 bit...
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeha no ida
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: he did the compile of ubode several weeks ago
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: for mac 64bit
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: guess there is more intel 32 bit hardware ppl can use than raspberry pi
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: The only 32-bit compiles I do these days are for an embedded system board.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: i do compile ubode for win32
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: and as i said many times works great
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: uses a lot less memory.. and similar performance
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: fact cpu has less registers is compensated by less work getting pointers from memory
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: well the changes to ubode where to try to save a few ns
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: nano seconds...
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: those saves are very clear in the code..
[11:20] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: hello, sorry im late
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: here.. well.. not really  duhhh :p
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: np, Michael.
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: welcome
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: we are on the last code, and so far we are alive ;)
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: That's a good thing. :)
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: well lbsa is on it also ok
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: guess that covers all code changes of last week :(
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, it does.
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: How we come to the Q&A portion of the meeting. :)
[11:23] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: im getting ready to start an intern on Opensim code - got a recommendation of where would be easiest for him to start?
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: ( current managed ubode will still work with previus version of unmanaged on macs.. )
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Start him on the documentation!
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: what documentation?
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: err oops
[11:24] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: rofl - i thought that was the point :P
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Exactly. That's why docs would be a good starting point.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: not for someone starting :p
[11:24] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: fair enough
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: but guess some of the doc at our site is a good start.. anyways
[11:25] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: maybe start him with something small that he can work on documenting as he goes through it
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Depends on what sort of docs they would be writing.
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: even if outdated
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: I'm trying to write a helper PHP script to decompose a build, list all the prim types and all their textures. As I figure things out I've been adding it to the documentation.
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: bahh to produce code documentation one needs to understand the CODE
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: jezz
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: we don't need more trash on our wiki, thanks
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: and that is very hard actually
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: guess i only understand 1% of opensim code
[11:27] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: ^ what ubit said - I'd be having him give it to me to send you to look over and let you post it if it's right
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, what do suggest someone do to get in to doing something related to the code if it isn't docs?
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: that includes 10% of my own code on it :p
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: The Wiki says writing new OSSL function is a good place to start.
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: wel what are is goals?
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: his..
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: produce opensim code? documentation.. what?
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: How many more OSSL functions do we need?
[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Well, we don't need more OSSL functions, but as an exercise for the student, it is a small project they can write and test to completion.
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: what skills are him supposed to improve using opensim ?
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps a region module?
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: (are him?? whatever :))
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Michael, how long is the intern expected to be working on the project?
[11:33] Jagga Meredith whispers: jnuhhyyyyyyyyyyyy
[11:33] Jagga Meredith whispers: 10
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, for a moment I thought a cat walked across your keyboard
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: mine almost did
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: :)  I'm not sure where mine is so I'm safe at the present time.
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: hmm michaelOmega is sitting so not killed by ubode.. i hope :P
[11:36] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: I'm putting him on it long term, going to eventually be working on (ideally) making opensim and browsers all intercompatible - horrible description but the quickest way i can think to say it
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: ie a web client
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:36] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: yes
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: a simple goal, ofc :p
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... sort of what I was thinking.
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: well seen 2 new viewers under devel in last weeks
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: one in Rust
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: othe using a "game engine"
[11:38] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: maybe it would start with a function to check which browser is being used, then a lot of testing to figure out what differences in browsers need to be accomodated
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: you call the viewer browser?
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well viewers to tell regions their name version etc
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: do..
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: not much regions can do to guess, otherwise
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: Just writing a dumb WEB page to work on all Browsers is a challenge these days.
[11:39] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: yes - want to make opensim accessible by both viewers and web browsers
[11:40] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: i still insist the future of the web is in 3d, so "web browsers" have to upgrade to be able to see the 3d sites
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: 11:19:49 - [SCENE]: Region Dev Outreach told of incoming root agent MichaelOmega Christopher
Geode 809d9333-6db3-45be-ba50-66f1d41e57ee (circuit code 2086786948, IP, vie
wer Singularity Release 64, teleportflags (ViaLogin), position <352.881, 411.425,
[11:40] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: so "basic" sites would be a single region, maybe even as small as a single parcel/room
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ~viewer told its data to the login server
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: err singu is OLD
[11:42] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: yea, so much going on in so many directions i often forget to update till the app tells me there is one waiting - and even then it often goes on the endless to-do list :/
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: yeha been there for a few years already :)
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: guess that was also the last working singu
[11:43] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: i thought there was already a function to read where a connection came from, which menas next step is him testing each and trying to document the differences in handling between existing viewers
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I have Singularity Beta 1.8.9 (8382) on my machine.
[11:44] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: *what viewer they are coming in from*
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well as i said, they do tell ( some lie) at login
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: it is part of the login protocol
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: even a kind of mac address :)
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: yup
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: that can also be something derived from the harddisk serial number etc
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: nd that some viewers also lie about,. ofc
[11:46] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: i already know it's a big project, but we want to expand what Diva did to provide a basic flat view page that can interact with the world more than account control/inventory
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: a simplified UI ?
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: like scenegate viewer ?
[11:47] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: yes
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: I wish Lumiya still worked... that was a useful limited viewer
[11:47] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: did i miss one? Someone else got ahead of me lol?
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Michael, if the intern writes down information as they learn about OS the notes can form the basis of (updated) documentation down the road.
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: miss what?
[11:47] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: i know, and i have hgad no luck getting the lumiya developer to reply
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: some told he died
[11:48] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: scenegate - is it a simplified web UI?
[11:48] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: ouch - that might be why no response :/
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: hides most things
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Who was working on lumiya?
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: a russian??
[11:49] Selby.Evans
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: one of the goals of scenegat is also a simplified UI
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: but does have all, just hidden
[11:50] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: alina i think
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: it is based on alchemy viewer
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: well someone told me he/se did died
[11:50] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: ty for link selby
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ofc can't confirm
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: i still does work here no?
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: guess not at sl... ?
[11:51] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: maybe i need to force that time into my schedule to figure out how we can get control of that code to resume updating it
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: think that was close source
[11:52] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: yea
[11:52] Selby.Evans I am using scenegate
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: and on mobile phones universe
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Michael, it is a very big project when you will be dealing with both the OpenSim side of things and also the viewer.
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: possilbe that java derivative :)
[11:53] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: very big is an understatement :))
[11:53] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: so easy to get lost in where to go next
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: well lymina had no 3d :p
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: i think..
[11:53] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: it did at once point, just - movement was.....odd
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:54] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: for last yuears conference i had to get teleports because i could see but not move
[11:54] Selby.Evans 1) To reduce cognitive overload caused by too many menu items and buttons on a new user's screen, a simplified mode was developed and made the default mode. In this mode, a limited number of user menu options are available which also reduces onboarding time.

 2) Toolbar button defaults presented to new users are also limited to only those needed to learn to use virtual worlds. This effectively applies a bulldozer to the steep learning curve further reducing onboarding time.

 3) When new users are ready to learn more, they do not need to download and learn how to use another viewer user interface. Extended mode is available in preferences with a few clicks. In this mode, the user is presented with more user interface menu items and toolbar buttons. Their user experience is "extended" rather than changed.
[11:54] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: at least after the tornado hit and I had to do the rest of the conference from mobiles only
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: hope bill did not placed this region in tornados path :p
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at five minutes before the top of the hour. Does anyone have a(nother) question/comment for today?
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: guess its more tsunamis path
[11:57] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: :/ hope you stay safe too
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: No other questions/comments for today? If not we will be able to finish on time.
[11:59] Kayaker Magic: AMAZING!
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: It does happen now and then. :)
[12:00] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: wow lol - I guess everyone have a great week and talok to you all soon!
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: Buy all!
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: evacute solar system :)
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Michael, your intern may want to drop in on these meetings. They should also get on to the IRC channel and dev mailing list.
[12:00] Selby.Evans bye all
[12:00] Kayaker Magic hates IRC
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I can't afford to buy all. ;)
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: hehe
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll make it official. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
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