Chat log from the meeting on 2021-08-17

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[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:00] Gavin.Hird Hi Andrew
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie
[11:04] Jamie.Jordan Hi everybody
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Ubit!
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:04] Gavin.Hird Hi Jagga. Evening Ubit
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit.
[11:05] Selby.Evans Hi Ubit
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Nothing much to report regarding code changes this past week. Only two changes were made with one being a minor bug fix and the other just changed the name of an internal function.
[11:07] Ubit Umarov: yeha those devs are getting lazy
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:08] Gavin.Hird crazy lazy
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: don't abuse :p
[11:08] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:08] Gavin.Hird they should be kicked off the project - all of them :-)
[11:09] Gavin.Hird no more pay – oh wait! nevermind...
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah details :)
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: and what news do you have to share ( about opensim not afganistan )
[11:11] Gavin.Hird I will have to update my MOSES regions which was modelled on a real valley in Afghanistan
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, you will need to remove any US flags and items related to US troops. :)
[11:11] Gavin.Hird exactly
[11:12] Gavin.Hird or my avatar will be killed
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: why talibans reshaped the terrain, or destroy again statues with tanks?
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: need to dress all female npcs also
[11:13] Gavin.Hird I1l have to put out all the burkas again in the store there and stock it up with AK-47
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:14] Gavin.Hird + prim beards
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: ohh yes we need to grow them bf tp there also
[11:15] Gavin.Hird no beard, auto eject
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: that means you also :P
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: but think hair is not mandatory
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to bring this gathering back to more relevant OS topics.
[11:15] Jagga Meredith: still working on osTeleportAgent.  Code calls...World.RequestTeleportLocation(presence.ControllingClient, regionName, position,
                        lookat, (uint)TPFlags.ViaLocation);.  Does it just accept lookat or does it modify it on the way back?
[11:16] Gavin.Hird since I made this skin, I have a version with full beard too - just in case
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: that only applies to local teleports
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, that is a Ubit or Gavin question. I haven't looked at the TP code.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: and on lookat, viewers are the boss
[11:18] Gavin.Hird on the way back?
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: what way back?
[11:19] Jagga Meredith: from calling world.requestblah blah.
[11:20] Jagga Meredith: was wondering if function was overwriting lookat
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: no, that is a argument copied by value
[11:20] Jagga Meredith: ok
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Is the lookat data being sent?
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: yes
[11:22] Jagga Meredith: apparentgly.  it works 90
[11:22] Jagga Meredith: 5 of time
[11:22] Jagga Meredith: :P%
[11:23] Jagga Meredith: 90%
[11:23] Gavin.Hird any pattern for when it does not work?
[11:23] Jagga Meredith: I cant get it to break consistently
[11:24] Gavin.Hird ok
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: The next question is whether it is only sending the right look at values 90% of the time. If it always sends the right value then it may be something viewer side.
[11:24] Jagga Meredith: usually first usage or after inactivity
[11:25] Jagga Meredith: hence I agree with Ubit, suspect viewer
[11:26] Gavin.Hird sounds like an event queue not picking it up properly
[11:26] Gavin.Hird whaich viewers have you tested on?
[11:26] Gavin.Hird which*
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, if you are digging in to code you could have the OS code output the LookAt value to the console so you can see if it is always right or not.
[11:26] Jagga Meredith: FS.  will try others
[11:27] Jagga Meredith: ok
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: any news about the animesh crossing kayaker ?
[11:28] Gavin.Hird Viewers may have all sorts of lookat toggles, so - my have at least 3 custom ones
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: No news on animesh, I was off having fun in RL for a week.
[11:28] Jagga Meredith: aha!
[11:29] Gavin.Hird that is so lazy
[11:29] Gavin.Hird :-)
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: having fun? shame..
[11:29] Kayaker Magic: So Ubit isn't the only one....
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Having fun in RL? Is that allowed?  ;)
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: Kayaking Loon Lake near Tahoe, camping in the mountains.
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: need check sharia on that kayaker
[11:30] Gavin.Hird did you bring your AK?
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: gavin they now have usa guns also.. the ones usa gave to afgn army
[11:31] Gavin.Hird those are unused
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's not get on that track again until after the meeting is over.
[11:32] Jagga Meredith: and everythin else except aircrafr(?)
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: ( andrew beard is 2 short for a taliban no ? )
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I was having a look in to the issue Mike.Lorrey mentioned last week. The best information I have about the feature is that it may have been removed at some point because it wasn't SL behaviour.
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I have yet to find the code or the INI setting that was related to the destination folder for uploaded (mesh) textures.
[11:34] Gavin.Hird I also looked in various viewer code, but could not find any trace of it
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: location is on protocol
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm hoping that checking for changes to the ini files may help track down when the code was changed.
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: I always uploaded my textures separate from my mesh, so never saw the behavior Mike is complaining about.
[11:35] Gavin.Hird I suspect the last time I saw that working was in the Imprudence viewer
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't uploaded textured mesh so I've not noticed how the mesh textures are handled.
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: i made changed upload code for ages, that does respect viewer locations rquests, but since has more changes, i still did not commit
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: also ll may change mesh uploads, so kinda waiting
[11:36] Gavin.Hird the mesh optimization replacement for glod
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: that issue is just that. It is viewer job to tell where to put the inventory items
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: viewers do it
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it really matter if the OS code has the (option of) where to put uploaded mesh textures? We say we don't need to be following SL 100%.
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: just on viewers that is a static option basicly
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: now on preferences, as a global setting
[11:37] Gavin.Hird as mentioned last time, I have absolutely seen the behavior he described, but that is ages ago
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Any idea which version of OS and/or viewer code when you last saw it?
[11:38] Gavin.Hird the Imprudence viewer I think
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Any thoughts as to whether it is a viewer or back end code issue?
[11:38] Jagga Meredith: could have that been an early version of viewer, a feature since dropped?
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. That would be rather old.
[11:39] Gavin.Hird last version was built 2013-ish
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have Imprudence any more. Haven't for along time.
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: and we can not do that
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: to keep in line with viewers
[11:39] Gavin.Hird I'd have to build a virtual machine to be able to test something that old
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: and they are very silly on inventory destiny locations
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: on other places where we do chose a location, viewers put on default, then later move
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: landmarks is a nonsense example
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Can we even say whether the destination folder for textures associated with mesh is back-end or viewer side related, or both?
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: bc default is Favorites bar.. that should not even get lms, but links to them
[11:41] Gavin.Hird I'd say viewer side as long at the backend supports a destination
[11:42] Gavin.Hird the model uploader knows all the textures to be uploaded (if any) and could place them accordingly
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: viewer tells the folder for the object, and folder for texture on the upload
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: so on that right action is:
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: me commit my code :p
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. If it is viewer side the change may have been made by LL and other viewers just inherited the change.
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: and ppl ask viewer devs to add folders selection dialog
[11:44] Gavin.Hird I think it was a change for the version 2.0 viewer
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, that would be an old change.
[11:45] Gavin.Hird viewers like Imprudence, Cool and Singularity - which are basically 1.23 viewers may have had it longer
[11:48] Jagga Meredith: I'm confused (as usual).  I have favourites with no other LM's.  If favourites are a link, where are its LM's?
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, you can right click the link and select "Find original".
[11:50] Jagga Meredith: right-clicking a favourite not showing thast option
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Another hour is almost up. Any other topics for today?
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: current they are not links
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, either the option is not in your viewer or the LM isn't a link
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: but should be
[11:51] Jagga Meredith: ah ok
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: fav bar should be a special folder like current outfit
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I have an LM in Favourites which is a link.
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: not a storage one
[11:52] Jagga Meredith: makes sense
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, perhaps I should have been clearer. I was suggesting right-clicking the LM in the Favourites folder in Inventory.
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: but well now ( fs at least) a new lm is uploaded there
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: then viewer askes where you want it
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: the it moves it
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: cancel is a move to trash
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: so silly
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: ( similar when we give objects by im )
[11:55] Gavin.Hird cancel usually undoes what you are in the process of doing, and if you cancel the creation of a LM, it could just poof it, but they decided to move to trash for remorse
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: that is bc by the time user sees the cancel btn it was already uploaded
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: that code flow on viewers is just silly
[11:56] Gavin.Hird yes, but they could just silently zap it
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: that is another comand, to delete from trash :)
[11:57] Gavin.Hird I don't have that code flow
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: think you do
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: but there are recent ll changes fs did got
[11:57] Gavin.Hird absolutely not :-)
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well in past lm was just placed on landmarks folder
[11:58] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: then someone decided to add fav bar
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: then moved to it
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: i mean uploaded to it
[11:59] Gavin.Hird which is what I have
[11:59] Gavin.Hird 11:58] [Dayturn: You have added "HG The Meeting Place" to your Landmarks folder.]
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ofc if you made it, it must be a favority right?
[11:59] Gavin.Hird I don't have  a Favorites folder
[12:00] Gavin.Hird I have the folder, but it is not placed there on creaton or auto moved there
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: then the option to pick destiny folder was added
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: and they where lazy
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: they just added the new dialog at the end of the upload already done
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: a lot easier to code..
[12:00] Gavin.Hird I have the old creation flow as I stopped taking code for the new flow. I did not like it at all
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: correct action should be ofc to ask where ( or cancel) and then do it
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: but well.. viewers are strange things
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: ( and have dark moons )
[12:02] Gavin.Hird hah!
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: and on inv tehre is also rlv
[12:02] Gavin.Hird I have a colored moon, but if there is a cloud partly obscuring it, it becomes dark
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: that is a hack on top of ll
[12:03] Gavin.Hird rlv is a massive hack and a real PITA to deal with
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: soem rlv ops require exact sl inventory servers behaviour to work
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well details
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:04] Gavin.Hird I don't really have a test environment set up for it. I always thought it was exceptionally silly
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: i never had it active
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: guess nice for some rpg
[12:06] Gavin.Hird it contaminated about 1900 source files for the viewer
[12:06] Gavin.Hird contaminates*
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:07] Jagga Meredith: *gets out bug spray*
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Last call for any final comments/questions/thoughts for today.
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Preferably OS related. :)
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see any signs of typing in progress.
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[12:09] Selby.Evans bye all
[12:09] Gavin.Hird bye Selby
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