Chat log from the meeting on 2021-06-29

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[11:01] Selby.Evans hi everyone
[11:01] Gavin.Hird Hi all
[11:01] Ubit Umarov: hi
[11:01] Jamie.Jordan Hi all
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I'm getting a different error when I log in to this grid than I used to get.
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps it is the same error but it was changed to say the name of the supposedly missing item.
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I finally found out what item I was supposedly wearing that has a missing asset.
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hello all!
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker.
[11:07] Gavin.Hird Hi Kayaker
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: There isn't much to report in the way of code changes since last week. There were a few minor items. The main one worth noting is a change related to starting scripts when items are rezzed from user inventory.
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: actually it was fix owner of the a prim when it is rez from another prim contents by drag into land
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: then yeah scripts where not started on that case also
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Bill.
[11:13] Bill Blight waves
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: Who wants to get us started this week?
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: guess no one does that but a few, since think it wehre very old bugs
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: you already did start andrew
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: think i also added another animation
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Which one was missing?
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, there was a commit mentioning adding another animation.
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: from the basic needed set that all viewers used to ship ( in usa words) with
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: the away animation
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: that looks a avatar sleeping standing
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: looks like
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you think all the animations are now in place?
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeah 118 or so of them
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: see me?
[11:18] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Ah, they use that for AFK
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeap same
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: it is also part of the fixed set of anims one can set on gestures
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: fun how those have alimited set no?
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: outch
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: fs has a big list
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: not sure we do have all those
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: only the basic ones viewers did include
[11:20] Gavin.Hird that anim reminded me of this video that has the anim used a few seconds out
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: 69_f ?
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: why is that there?
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: oops i asked to log?
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: 69_f??
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: seems fs also shows all one has on animations folder
[11:22] Gavin.Hird lol
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: coff coff coff :p
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see amvans today. amvans must have solved the problem of connecting their region to osgrid.
[11:23] Gavin.Hird you need a blush gesture
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: well that away was still missing
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: i did add it also
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: fs 6.4.21 will need it
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: possible dayturn one day ?
[11:25] Gavin.Hird need what?
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: those base assets
[11:25] Gavin.Hird are not these lib animations that are to be loaded server side only referenced by uuid in the viewer?
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: wle i looked to the other assets viewers did include ( still do )
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: hmm?
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: those where included on all viewers on their cache bootstrap as we spoke
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: well the other assets are gestures.. a ton of them
[11:26] Gavin.Hird yes, but loading them server side sould suffice
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: and a ton of bodyparts and wearebles
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: i will skip those
[11:27] Gavin.Hird ok
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: the gestures are not essencial
[11:28] Gavin.Hird nothing prevents us from having the old db in the viewer still
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: neither those wearebles, that where part of old ruth like avatars
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: sure
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: even keep using the old cache
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: that does look faster, at least in teory
[11:28] Gavin.Hird there is not necessarily a connection between the db and the cache
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: no idea why ll thinks that plain files are are faster
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: what db?
[11:29] Gavin.Hird anything loaded from the db are static and there is no need to copy to cache as they can be reloaded from the db via the in-memory index
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: what db?
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: those db2 files?
[11:30] Gavin.Hird static_data.db2 + the index file
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well that is a special simple filesystem
[11:31] Gavin.Hird so what? everything is in there
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: and those static: are copied to the cache on clear
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: cache that had the same format
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: similar filesystem
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: ll did that to speed it up, like some dbs did
[11:32] Gavin.Hird but they don't have to be copied to cache. change a portion of the code to load from the file
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: that was faster than just using simple disk filesystem
[11:32] Gavin.Hird always
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: no
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: that copy code was removed
[11:33] Gavin.Hird removed from where?
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: brb
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: by ll when the use the new asset cache
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: whne they..
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: and fs 6.4.21
[11:34] Gavin.Hird ok, but 1) I have not taken that code yet 2) the cachec code was reverted by ll, so right now it is a FS beta issue
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: but think ll plans to use it
[11:34] Gavin.Hird if FS want to jump off a cliff, the rest of us don't have to
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: they had done same silly change on textures
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: if oyu see texture cache is just like that already
[11:35] Gavin.Hird but there are not any textures loaded from that db
[11:35] Gavin.Hird they eitehr come server side or from the viewer skinning
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: i said nothing abotu that.. just talking about the viewers cache formats in use now
[11:36] Gavin.Hird whihc is an improvment of how it used to be
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: in old days textures where on same special file system cache
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: well details
[11:37] Gavin.Hird bus as I said I am notgoing to take that cache code till it has been battle tested :-)
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: for meeting and opensim what matters is that all those animations are now included on opensim base assets also
[11:38] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:38] Gavin.Hird which is excellent
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:38] Gavin.Hird we only need the clap sound
[11:38] Gavin.Hird /clap
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well the clap gesture we do ship for ages has no sound
[11:39] Gavin.Hird /clap
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: someone made it for opensim without sound
[11:40] Gavin.Hird there you go
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: well your viewer has it
[11:40] Gavin.Hird I put in suitcase
[11:41] Gavin.Hird not in viewer
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: that does not work, bc asset needs to have fixed uuid
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: assets
[11:41] Gavin.Hird of course
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: but yeah i can replace that clap one and add the sound
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: but will not do the others :p
[11:42] Gavin.Hird right
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: they are a ton, a very silly
[11:42] Gavin.Hird some of which are outright silly
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: also many sounds used have human voices
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: no idea about copyrighs on those voices
[11:43] Gavin.Hird no idea
[11:44] Gavin.Hird since they were never loaded in the source repo, better not touch them
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: btw testing this things remember they depend a lot on viewers cache types and state
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: if you where at SL with same viewer, you may see all working..
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: same with any asset that has same uuid
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: like many hardcoded on viewers
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: that includes other things like EEP assets etc
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: well in time we try to fix that
[11:48] Gavin.Hird I realized I don't have any equipment that can run Windows 11, so dunno how that will be for viewer dev and testing
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: and why do you want to run it?
[11:48] Gavin.Hird to test
[11:48] Gavin.Hird the viewer
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: i don't have the tpm or tmp thing
[11:48] Gavin.Hird not right now
[11:48] Gavin.Hird but as we get closer to release
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: possible would block it, if  i had it
[11:49] Gavin.Hird all new PC will be sold with it
[11:49] Gavin.Hird Win 11 that is
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: wel ms is trying to force that since win vista
[11:49] Bill Blight: They are talking about disabling some of the requirements like TPM for upgrades
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: TPM?
[11:49] Gavin.Hird they temoved the test program today
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: and many mbs that have it let is be disabled on bios
[11:49] Bill Blight: Trusted Platform Module
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ty.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: bc that is a damm rights violation
[11:50] Gavin.Hird so people cannot test any more
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: TPM means no hiding your identity ever again.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: yeha that also
[11:50] Bill Blight: Apple has been doing it with their ASIC for years ... LOL
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ofc
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: apple is apple
[11:50] Gavin.Hird you have to log in with a MS account for it to run the Home edition
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ms wants to do the same
[11:51] Gavin.Hird you can run any Mac without logging in with an Apple account
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: TPM has layers and layers of paranoia built in, even checking for over-voltage reset hacks.
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: sure it does help on a few security issues..  until some one makes a virus for it
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: mostly is to force you to pay to use applications
[11:52] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: that is why they want it
[11:52] Gavin.Hird application subscriptions
[11:52] Kayaker Magic: But MicroSquishy says TPM is to protect you from hackers!
[11:52] Bill Blight: evidently so far in only verifies that the TPM exists on install ... which has already been defeated ... LOL
[11:52] Gavin.Hird MS is the hacker
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: bc subscriptios is the best way to ripe ppl $
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: Another reason I am happy I switched this desktop to Ubuntu.
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: well my mb is like from 2018 and i don't have it
[11:53] Jamie.Jordan You can get around it on mac, because I do :-)
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: 2017 possible
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: but i did not want to upgrade to win 10 :p
[11:54] Gavin.Hird get around running Win 11 you mean?
[11:54] Bill Blight: I don't own a tinfoil hat and I welcome our new overlords .... :P
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: i will refuse to upgrade to 11 until forced 2
[11:54] Gavin.Hird yeah, with an extremely convoluted install procedure, that will force you to reinstall for the next update
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: windows is going a way i just hate
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: like the subscriptions crap
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: permante survilance by ms
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: cloud bs
[11:55] Gavin.Hird but they had Win 11 Pro running on a Raspberry Pi 4
[11:55] Gavin.Hird ARM64 version
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: How was that managed when Win11 isn't officially out yet (AFAIK).
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: bet they want to take macs out of apple :p
[11:56] Gavin.Hird developer prerelease
[11:56] Bill Blight: Windows Insider, leaked build
[11:56] Bill Blight: but now it is available to Insiders
[11:56] Gavin.Hird you just need to sing off your soul to MS :-)
[11:56] Jamie.Jordan no get around not being able to run apps and idenity crap
[11:56] Gavin.Hird sign*
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: you mean like some do to apple ?
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:57] Gavin.Hird lol
[11:57] Gavin.Hird I worked for Apple remember
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:58] Gavin.Hird but that was while SJ was still alive
[11:58] Jamie.Jordan I love my mac but not real into buy a new one
[11:58] Gavin.Hird I would not wark for Timmy
[11:58] Bill Blight: need to bail out ... Later peeps
[11:58] Gavin.Hird work*
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour once again. Any other OpenSim related questions or comments before this meeting winds down?
[11:59] Kayaker Magic: HEY! Bill violated the 15 second warning rule before poofing!
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I noticed that too. I didn't get a chance to say goodbye.
[11:59] Gavin.Hird he was off to install Win 11 :-))
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: wel sometimes nature calls
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: or things like that :)
[12:00] Jamie.Jordan It's Bill he don't care for rules
[12:00] Jamie.Jordan :-)
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: wel i also remember ms telling win 10 was the last
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: whatever them meant by that..
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I had heard that too.
[12:00] Jamie.Jordan they sure did
[12:00] Gavin.Hird right, but then Apple upgraded to macOS 11
[12:01] Kayaker Magic: My amplifier goes up to 11
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: 11 seems the year thing
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: debian is 11 also no?
[12:01] Gavin.Hird not yet
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: beta as win
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: If there isn't any thing more for today related to OpenSim I'll call this meeting concluded.
[12:02] Kayaker Magic: OK, back to work!
[12:02] Gavin.Hird tc Kayaker
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: have fun
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. see you next week.
[12:02] Kayaker Magic: Or play, as the case may be.
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see anyone else typing so I will call this one done and dusted.
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
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