Chat log from the meeting on 2020-11-03

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[11:02] Gavin.Hird Hi Andrew
[11:02] Ada Radius: OK, fixed, now you look tres chic
[11:02] Arielle Popstar: yay
[11:02] Arielle Popstar: Hi Andrew'
[11:02] Kayaker Magic: I'm running this Desktop today on Ubuntu 20.04 with the Linux FireStorm. It is pretty peppy.
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:02] Ada Radius: Though Kayaker looks like he's been doing things to mammals. How was Halloween?
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: So a question for Gavin: What other viewers are out there that have a Linux version?
[11:03] Gavin.Hird CoolVL
[11:03] Ada Radius: Hi Gavin, Hi Andrew, Hi Jagga
[11:03] Gavin.Hird but it behaves rather bad
[11:03] Arielle Popstar: what percentage of people in opensim use Mac?
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, steevithak
[11:03] Ada Radius: Hey steevithak
[11:04] steevithak x: howdy
[11:04] Gavin.Hird how would anyone know Arielle?
[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi Steev
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Halloween is the USA equivalent of Marti Gras: An excuse to dress up and act crazy.
[11:04] Arielle Popstar: by the amount of downloads you get?
[11:04] Ada Radius: I do that every day
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: LOL
[11:04] Arielle Popstar: and Dan knows what viewers log to osgrid
[11:05] Gavin.Hird downloads does not say much about percentage at all in opensim
[11:05] Arielle Popstar: no true
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: And what hope do I have that Voice will ever work on FS on Linux?
[11:05] Gavin.Hird the opensim demograpics and user base is quite obscure
[11:06] Gavin.Hird slim to none Kayaker
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker: I have Linux versions of Sing, FS, Kokua, CoolVL, and Radegest installed on my computer.
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: but Dan has put out a list of what viewers logged into osgrid before
[11:06] Ubit Umarov: (hi)
[11:06] Gavin.Hird Hi
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: hey
[11:06] Gavin.Hird when was before Arielle?
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: IT'S ALIVE! Ubit is alive!
[11:06] Ada Radius: Hey Ubit
[11:06] Arielle Popstar: meh my memory not so good for specific dates
[11:07] Gavin.Hird he just commit a few so of course he is allive
[11:07] Arielle Popstar: 2-3 year ago?
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I don't use voice that often but it is still working with FS under Linux, AFAICR.
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I last used it about two(?) weeks ago.
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jagga.
[11:08] Gavin.Hird you don't show as voice caplable Andrew
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: ?How come Gavin says "poor to none" and Andrew says "Worked last week"?
[11:09] Gavin.Hird try turn on voice
[11:09] Gavin.Hird first of all SL voice is close sourced by LL
[11:09] Gavin.Hird and they don't maintain a Linux version
[11:09] Gavin.Hird so that alone is a good sign
[11:10] Gavin.Hird Second Vivox has said they will port the libs to Linux
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Voice is enabled, but no white dot. Toggle voice, doesn't help. What do you do to get it to work Andrew?
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: This area has voice disabled.
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: BILL!
[11:10] Gavin.Hird this area has voice
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: That's not what my viewer says.
[11:11] Gavin.Hird at least I can see who is registered with a voice server
[11:11] Gavin.Hird Arielle, Ubit and I are
[11:11] Arielle Popstar: i'm on voice?
[11:12] Bill Blight: voice is disabled in parcel settings here, but still sometimes when you had voice in a previous region , the viewer still thinks you have voice in your next region ..
[11:12] Gavin.Hird I was about to say Bill
[11:12] Gavin.Hird we all came from regions with voice
[11:12] Gavin.Hird so you are actually still connected to it
[11:12] Bill Blight: I don't show you as having voice, or anybody for that manner
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: i dont have voice activated on any region
[11:12] Bill Blight: you are still connected to your previous region
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: (Andrew: Thanks for the list of viewers that have Linux versions!)
[11:13] Gavin.Hird did you TP in via a region with voice Arielle?
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, there may be one or two others but I don't currently have them installed.
[11:14] Bill Blight: no one is registered to vivox from this region
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: from sandbox plaza
[11:14] Gavin.Hird right
[11:14] Gavin.Hird so that is why you have a voice connection
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: but i dont have the viewer set to connect to the voice server
[11:14] Gavin.Hird as once established it is tied to your viewer and not the region so much
[11:15] Arielle Popstar doublechecks
[11:15] Gavin.Hird whispers: are you sure you don't have voice enabled in Prefs?
[11:15] Arielle Popstar: Enable Voice is not checked
[11:16] Arielle Popstar: but there was a default checkmark in the Allow Voice in Multiple viewer instances simultaneous box
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: try now
[11:17] Gavin.Hird I think it works like this: If you are in a voice enabled region the viewer will still establish a session with the voice server
[11:17] Bill Blight: You turn voice on here Ubit?
[11:17] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: was disable on parcel
[11:17] Bill Blight: yes I know
[11:17] Bill Blight: said that earlier
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: just for this test
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I get the wavy lines when I talk here.
[11:18] Gavin.Hird I could hear you Andrew
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeah seems working
[11:18] Gavin.Hird Kayaker is not registered with the voice server
[11:18] Arielle Popstar: bugged
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, if you heard me that shows that voice is working using Firestorm under Linux.
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: I don't hear you
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: He is one of the few here with no white dot.
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: But my perfs don't let me force the voice input and output to the working drivers....
[11:19] Bill Blight: there is still a bug where if your mic is hot , and someone turns off voice in the parcel/region your mic stays hot and you can't turn it off ..
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: you see me with one Andrew?
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: I see no white dots
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps you have an issue with audio drivers on your machine.
[11:20] Arielle Popstar: me or Kay?
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: I hear no voices. (Accept for the ones in my head, but I usually don't do what they tell me to do)
[11:21] Gavin.Hird :-)
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I'm currently have FS prefs set to ALSA capture with default for the input audio device settings.
[11:21] Ada Radius: If you look in the headset button you ccan see who has their mic button lit and who doesn't
[11:21] Kayaker Magic: So Andrew gives me hope that if I tinker with audio drivers, I might get voice to work?
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: Headset dialog shows nobody for me.
[11:22] Arielle Popstar: so opensim overides the voice setting
[11:22] Ada Radius: for me it shows me Bill, Gavin and Andrew are mic enabled
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill hd a mic symbol but it just went off.
[11:22] Ada Radius: ya
[11:23] Arielle Popstar: pretty serious security issue
[11:23] Ada Radius: and Jagga's is lit
[11:23] Jagga Meredith: woohoo
[11:23] Jagga Meredith: not hearing anyting
[11:24] Gavin.Hird because everyone is quiet
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I only see white dots over the heads of myself, Ada, Bill, Gavin, and Ubit.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: i did gavin mking noises
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: No white dot to me means no voice.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: did ear
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: or voice on private :)
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: I'm not hearing anything, or seeing any white dots. But I'll go play with sound settings later.
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: well and what other opensim news do you have?
[11:26] Arielle Popstar: we should be asking you Ubit
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, check that your mic works in Linux. After that, check the input options in FS prefs -> Sound & Media, Voice tab, click Audio Device Settings. Try the different Input options.
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: brb
[11:27] Gavin.Hird There was a viewer update out last week, and then a hot-fix for the Mac version because of a singing issue that blocked access to the microphone
[11:27] Gavin.Hird signing and not singing
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: singing issue? Trying to save peoples ears? ;)
[11:27] Arielle Popstar: ahh wondered
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I hear someone.
[11:28] Arielle Popstar: singing macs would be a problem
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: That is Ubit.
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: i'd much prefer speech to text like Lumiya has
[11:29] Gavin.Hird Next Tuesday is the big ARM reveal, so not going to be here :-))
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: for the typing impaired
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: Mac Arm reveal?
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, what is happening with ARM that will be a big reveal?
[11:30] Gavin.Hird they launch the new ARM based Macs
[11:30] Gavin.Hird or Apple Silicon as they prefer to call it
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: This means no viewer for new Mac owners.
[11:30] Gavin.Hird yep
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: on code changes.. hmm not much
[11:31] Kayaker Magic: Will FS run in wine? (Hehe, I'm being silly asking that)
[11:31] Gavin.Hird there is a tiny chance the currrent viewer will run in emulation, but it will run like shit
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: will it be for all macs or just an option?
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: some more changes on assets fetch code
[11:31] Gavin.Hird Apple will migrate all their machines to ARM in 2 years
[11:32] Gavin.Hird probalby less
[11:32] Arielle Popstar: will the new fetch code speed up the fetching?
[11:32] Arielle Popstar: huh ok Gavin
[11:32] Arielle Popstar: not good for mac users
[11:33] Gavin.Hird I suppose it will be quite good for most Mac users, but the viewer will not run
[11:33] Arielle Popstar: well was referring to virtual world mac users
[11:33] Gavin.Hird right
[11:33] Gavin.Hird it might be the end of it
[11:33] Arielle Popstar: so they will have to get a mac based mobile viewer out
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: added some data for viewers
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: like prim scale limits
[11:33] Arielle Popstar: s/l says 10% or more users on macs
[11:34] Gavin.Hird why do you assume mobile?
[11:34] Arielle Popstar: ARM?
[11:34] Kayaker Magic: I wonder if the "slow mesh load" that Arielle reports is not slow mesh afterall, but lost packets: What seems to happen is the mesh downloads fine, but the data that tells it what size to be is lost. Then avatars are surrounded by huge ugly mesh objects that are the wrong size and location.
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: test FS now uses it and allows 1024 prim edit, if region has that set
[11:34] Gavin.Hird their ARM processors are supposed to compete with the Xeon in their Mac Pro systems
[11:34] Arielle Popstar: oh interesting Kay
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: * fix llGetLinkKey to support LINK_* constants
[11:35] Arielle Popstar: you mean Ubit weasnt intentionally breaking it/
[11:35] Gavin.Hird plus their own GPU
[11:38] Arielle Popstar: how did you find that out Kayaker/.
[11:38] Kayaker Magic: I didn't find out anything, I am hypothesizing that perhaps the error is not what everyone thinks.
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: Hard to fix something if you are looking in the wrong place....
[11:39] Arielle Popstar: any comment on that possibility Ubit?
[11:39] Gavin.Hird if a mesh fails to rezz it might still partly be there with a big default shape
[11:39] Gavin.Hird you can sometimes grab it and it gets visible as wireframe in the viewer
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: so hats as a result of it being fetched through udp?
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: on an iffy connection?
[11:41] Gavin.Hird I think it ends up like that if the material cannot be loaded
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: Are mesh downloaded on UDP or TCP? Can you force mesh to come on TCP?
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: udp here i believe buy http in s/l?
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: buy=but
[11:42] Gavin.Hird http on newer versions of opensim
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: either/ or Gavin?
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: doesnt it default still to udp but will look for http?
[11:43] Gavin.Hird no
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: at least on some aset types
[11:44] Gavin.Hird in Dayturn you can turn off http inventory (also mesh) but that is the default
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: Is there a Viewer setting to force HTTP downloads? In FS?
[11:45] Gavin.Hird I have in Prefs and on the Develop menu
[11:45] Arielle Popstar: i dont see it in prefs on FS anymore
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: if you don't know basic things like if mesh uses udp or http, why do you bother me with that all the time?
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: specially whne i told you ppl about those things several times
[11:46] Gavin.Hird Preferences -> Setup -> checkboxes for Fetch Textures with HTTP and Fetch Inventory with HTTP
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: hi selby.Evans
[11:46] Selby.Evans hi everyone
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby.
[11:47] Gavin.Hird Hi Selby
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: forgot time change? :)
[11:47] Gavin.Hird election day
[11:47] Arielle Popstar: well you often think you have told us stuff when maybe you told someone in IM about it but not in a meeting log
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: OH it is today?
[11:47] Gavin.Hird yes :-)
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: hmm results will be today also?
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: Thank you for the reminder of the HTTP settings Gavin. Yes, repeating lessons is often necessary for some of us to learn.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes. Voting day in the U.S. It will be nice to stop seeing all the talk about it where I am after today as I'm not in that country.
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: no
[11:48] Selby.Evans No -- had problem on tp here -- logged out on previous tries
[11:48] Gavin.Hird not today European time, no
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: heard there would be results still over the next week
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: andrew guess all tv stations are on that today
[11:49] Selby.Evans Internet very busy here
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: Oh? hm this time tp did work for me
[11:49] Gavin.Hird The US consitution explicitly says votes received 3 days after the election is the be discarded
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: yeah internet "weather"
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: wasnt this a lot of mail in voting?
[11:49] Selby.Evans this time worked
[11:50] Gavin.Hird those are to be discarded after 3 days too
[11:50] Ada Radius: lol Gavin. no it does not
[11:50] Gavin.Hird Yes it does Ada
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, mail in voting and a lot of people driving by some box where they can deposit their votes.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: btw how is scenegate devel?
[11:50] Ada Radius: Article I, Section 4, Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'm hoping the bandwidth of the INTERNET will increase dramatically when all the Russian hackers finally stop trying to break into every computer on the planet to effect the election.
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: gavin here is rushing adding eep etc to dayturn
[11:51] Ubit Umarov runs and hides
[11:51] Selby.Evans Still in work -- no Mac version yet
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't heard anything more about SceneGate recently. Perhaps there will be an update about it at the upcoming OSCC.
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: Selby: How about a Linux version?
[11:51] Gavin.Hird rushing would be an overstatment
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: At least 1.03 million absentee ballots could be tossed if half of the nation votes by mail. Discarded votes jump to 1.55 million if 75% of the country votes absentee.
[11:52] Selby.Evans there will be update on scenegate at OSCC.
[11:52] Gavin.Hird but the viewer published last week has EEP changes to the renderer resulting in much better alpha sahdows from mesh objects
[11:52] Gavin.Hird plus updates to reflections
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: oh? nice
[11:52] Gavin.Hird shadows*
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: eep render did increase some lag in some cases
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: Vote by mail has a nice feature: You can go to a WEB site and ask if your vote was received, if it was filled out properly, if it is going to be counted.
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: hope they fixed the water thing
[11:53] Gavin.Hird I have not seen any of that yet
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: ( they ll )
[11:53] Selby.Evans Kayaker -- There is a working scenegate for Linux, but voice is not working on it
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: think its was some refletions
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. There *is* a working SceneGate for Linux? I should have a look at that.
[11:54] Selby.Evans Ask Lisa--
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Selby: Is that Vivox voice not working? How goes the new voice service development?
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: guess you need its slvoice.exe to compile on linux also
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: yeah did ear the is back from ugly rl
[11:55] Selby.Evans Echo voice will be a main topic of OSCC presentation.
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just coming up to the top of the hour. Does anyone who may have to leave soon have a question?
[11:56] Selby.Evans Yes Kayker , vivox voice not working.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well scenegat has mumble
[11:57] Gavin.Hird does it have Bento?
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: or BoM?
[11:58] Ada Radius: Bom is turning out to be vy cool. Reduced resources needed on an av, and a little more protection for creators. UV mapping kind of a nightmare on some mesh.
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: it must match original sys things
[11:59] Gavin.Hird I can imagine Ada
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: yes seeing complexities on s/l dropping to less then a typical system avatar
[11:59] Ada Radius: yes
[11:59] Arielle Popstar: s/l avatars
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: guess that is bad complexity code :p
[11:59] Ada Radius: os too :)
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: no
[12:00] Ada Radius: no
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: you just hate mesh
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: biased
[12:00] Gavin.Hird I don't have the complexity code
[12:00] Ada Radius: if you bake a bunch of textures down to three or four, that's better than dozens on an avatar
[12:00] Gavin.Hird viewer runs faster without
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well new fs will increase resources use
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: 1024px bakes
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: because of eep]
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: and im using 10
[12:01] Selby.Evans Is OSSL TeleportObject in use? Is it working?
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: ( wearing a universal thing )
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: think it does work yes
[12:01] Selby.Evans wou it teleport avatars sitting on it?
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Selby, it should be stated in the wiki whether it has been implemented or not
[12:02] Ada Radius: I got to go do rl. thanks everyone
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: think it does work yes
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: that is its idea..
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: tc Ada
[12:02] Ada Radius: :)
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: tp a entire car with the avatars
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: oh good for border crossing
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Ada.
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: ages since i tested it.. but also made no code changes
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: well that i remember
[12:03] Selby.Evans Thanks -- TP avatars -- that is what I expected
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: should tp all sitting on the object
[12:04] Gavin.Hird with or without the object? :-)
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: That could be fun
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well it is a old thing now andrew
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: made for tps internal to region
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: but should do crossings
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: can even do large range tps
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: but things will be very ugly
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: better not try those :)
[12:05] Arielle Popstar: no worse then s heavy avatar?
[12:05] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, I wonder how that interacts with Kitely's region start on demand....
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: ohh possible smoke
[12:06] Arielle Popstar: isnt the waiting place stilla region?
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: but its main use in local tps
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: possible crossings
[12:06] Selby.Evans I am thinking of using it on Kilely
[12:06] Gavin.Hird just test it out Selby
[12:06] Gavin.Hird there is nothing holding you back, is there?
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: it it on 0.9.1 code
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: well region crosses vcant be good on a region on demand place
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: it is..
[12:07] Selby.Evans to tp to another sim -- yes, Gavin
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: how long does a region haver to be empty before it goes back in styorssage?
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: but if the region is not visible from the start postion, things will be ugly
[12:07] Selby.Evans no nothing stopping test
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: in case of on demand.. well can't tell
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: storage
[12:08] Selby.Evans May have to get the desitnation started
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: ( things go ugly, bc viwers are told about a crossing.. will not put back screen to hide things.. etc )
[12:08] Selby.Evans On Kitely
[12:08] Gavin.Hird a security orb probalby would not care if things got ugly
[12:09] Kayaker Magic: I imagine setting up a race with blamgates from region to region. During the race, people volunteer to sit in each region and keep them from being turned off in Kitely.
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: mb in future long range tps can be improved
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: well do not forget how heavy tps are
[12:09] Gavin.Hird Kitely probalby does not have sufficient server allocation to keep all regions running
[12:10] Selby.Evans I expect there would be problems if avatar load is heavy
[12:10] Kayaker Magic: Oh: A Linux question for Andrew: On Win7 I can run 2 copies of FireStorm at once, but I cannot on Ubuntu. Is Win7 better at swapping? (Ubuntu set up only 2GB of swap file and I see that max out) Is the Linux version of FS bigger and fatter than the WinCows version?
[12:11] Selby.Evans Kitely gets its servers from AWS -- should be plenty of servere
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, are you passing the option to FS to allow multiple copies of FS to be run?
[12:11] Selby.Evans servers
[12:12] Kayaker Magic: Where is that option Andrew? One of the perf pages? Trying to see if it is on....
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: It is an option you use on the command line.
[12:13] Arielle Popstar: under advanced
[12:13] Arielle Popstar: Allow Multiple Viewers
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Or that. :)
[12:13] Arielle Popstar: ^^
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember I used to need a command line option for Singularity. I forgot that it is now a setting in FS.
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: it is a option
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: on advanced or something
[12:16] Kayaker Magic: Can't find it yet.....
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: on fs, and guess all now
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: We are now at quarter past. This has been a good meeting. I thought we might have been missing some people due to the recent time change in North America.
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, open prefs then put in "allow multiple" in the search box.
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: see Advanced kay :p
[12:17] Gavin.Hird or it might be a debug setting
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: its not
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: very visible there
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: ( well also on the deb settings )
[12:18] Gavin.Hird AllowMultipleViewers
[12:18] Gavin.Hird is the deb setting
[12:18] Kayaker Magic: No such line on my FS 6.3.9 on Lunux....
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: First option on that group of settings.
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: all things are on those i think
[12:18] Arielle Popstar: oh
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: all options i mean
[12:19] Arielle Popstar: maybe linux cant
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: only a few show up on the gui
[12:19] Gavin.Hird too many deb settings
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, I see that setting in FS for Linux. AFAIK, it has been there a long time.
[12:19] Kayaker Magic: OK, found it in debug settings. Was already on, which their Wiki says is the default in WinCows and Linux.
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: like secengate did.. most things should vanish from the UI
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: most users know nothing about what the things are
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: so just confusion
[12:20] Gavin.Hird speaking of Scenegate for the Mac. There is no point in even trying to develop it at thsi point in time
[12:20] Kayaker Magic: because?
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: arm again  :)
[12:21] Kayaker Magic: Oh THAT
[12:21] Gavin.Hird the code is not going to compile for the ARM macs
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: yeah gavin will need to buy pcs now
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Why does the architecture make a difference? Is there assembly code in there somewhere?
[12:22] Ubit Umarov runs and hides
[12:22] Gavin.Hird why does it make a difference ?
[12:22] Gavin.Hird hehe
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:22] Kayaker Magic: One big difference is no OpenGL....
[12:22] Gavin.Hird Andrew the biggest issue is the renderer
[12:23] Gavin.Hird these machines are built for Metal
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, right. The OpenGL issue.
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: metal or die :)
[12:23] Gavin.Hird and the Metal libraries only work with Swift or Objective C
[12:23] Arielle Popstar: heavy metal macs
[12:23] Kayaker Magic: You don't need OpenGL, Apple will provide you with all the standards you need.
[12:23] Gavin.Hird 99.999% of the viewer code is OpenGL and C++
[12:24] Kayaker Magic: Apple knows what is best for you.
[12:24] Arielle Popstar: what about vulkan?
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: guess worse is apple closing the devel chain
[12:24] Gavin.Hird so for it to work with Metal you will have to do a completel from the ground up rewrite
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: you must be a apple devel and apple only (?)
[12:24] Gavin.Hird that is at leas 10 manyears
[12:25] Arielle Popstar: so s/l is biting a big project for macs
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: think ms is doing similar.. more hidding
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: with nuget crap etc
[12:25] Gavin.Hird IDK what SL will do with their Mac viewer Arielle
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: but ms market is very diferent.. forget ms to turn back a lot of time
[12:26] Arielle Popstar: they plan on keeping up with it
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: forced! i meant
[12:26] Gavin.Hird plan
[12:26] Gavin.Hird it is easy to paln
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: apple market.. well suicidal ppl
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: :p
[12:26] Gavin.Hird the plan needs execution
[12:26] Arielle Popstar: well Oz said there is a fair MOUNT OF mAC USERS IN S/L
[12:27] Gavin.Hird they are not going to rewrite the code
[12:27] Gavin.Hird the users are not
[12:27] Arielle Popstar: probably most of the lab :)
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: mb some will do what commodore did on amiga
[12:27] Gavin.Hird Oz has a Mac on his desk
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: add a x86 sidething :p
[12:27] Gavin.Hird and Intel
[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Sidecar or Bridgeboard.
[12:27] Gavin.Hird which will still work for a few years
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: ( that killed Amiga imo )
[12:28] Arielle Popstar: even on the new macs?
[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Commodore killed the Amiga.
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: ( i even did got a full ibm XT with disk etc, cheaper than that sidething for the amiga )
[12:28] Gavin.Hird the Intel Mac is a discrete machine
[12:28] Gavin.Hird which will run Intel code as before
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: ibm clone i mean
[12:28] Gavin.Hird the ARM system will run intel in emulation
[12:29] Gavin.Hird meaning running dead slow
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: apple loves to do that lol
[12:29] Gavin.Hird plsu as far as I have been able to find they will only run OpenGL 3.2
[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, the Sidecar was for the A1000. The Bridgeboard was for the A2000.
[12:29] Gavin.Hird and the viewer only use OpenGL 2.1
[12:30] Arielle Popstar: i see
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: bet. arm running intel simulator, running power emulator running 68k emulator LOL
[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:30] Arielle Popstar: can they update the viewer to 3.2?
[12:30] Gavin.Hird the 68k emulator on PowerPC wa s massive succes
[12:30] Gavin.Hird apps ran 2-3X faster
[12:31] Gavin.Hird Intel on PowerPC was pretty crappy
[12:31] Gavin.Hird PowerPC on Intel was better but not exactly fast
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: imagine all that chain i said lol´
[12:31] Gavin.Hird yea
[12:32] Gavin.Hird I think I am going to install a VAX cluster on Raspberry PI
[12:32] Gavin.Hird ...
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Why some might ask? Because you can.
[12:32] Gavin.Hird exacrtly :-)
[12:33] Gavin.Hird we have a massive VAX cluster of 28 VUP
[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: It is amazing how many (older) computer can be run via emulation. Just look at the RetroPie site.
[12:33] Gavin.Hird and it served over 500 concurrent users
[12:33] Gavin.Hird had*
[12:33] Arielle Popstar: have a good week
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: u2
[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Arielle. See you next week.
[12:34] Gavin.Hird Bye Arielle
[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at half past now. I should be going. Have a new bit of Arduino based hardware to test.
[12:34] Gavin.Hird have fun
[12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. In the past many people get thrown off by the time change. Have a good weekend. See you all again next week.

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