http://opensimulator.org/index.php?title=Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2020-02-25&feed=atom&action=historyChat log from the meeting on 2020-02-25 - Revision history2024-03-29T07:14:47ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.19.9http://opensimulator.org/index.php?title=Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2020-02-25&diff=48642&oldid=prevKcozens: Created2020-02-25T20:16:45Z<p>Created</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi Andrew<br />
<br />[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew<br />
<br />[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.<br />
<br />[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, George.<br />
<br />[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Evening George<br />
<br />[11:06] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi George<br />
<br />[11:06] George Equus: Hello Andrew and everyone<br />
<br />[11:06] George Equus: Forgot time, head full with nasty mesh and prims<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nasty mes?<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mesh*<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker<br />
<br />[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hello all!<br />
<br />[11:07] George Equus: Mmm, bad mesh linked with regiular prims can have strange effects<br />
<br />[11:07] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Kayaker<br />
<br />[11:07] George Equus: Hi Kayaker<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet<br />
<br />[11:08] George Equus: said prims become invisible in certan angels and distances<br />
<br />[11:08] Ubit Umarov: hu<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hu<br />
<br />[11:08] George Equus: no idea why but def. a fact<br />
<br />[11:09] George Equus: well, as always, keep away from badly made mesh<br />
<br />[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can't say I have ever experienced that, but ok<br />
<br />[11:09] Ubit Umarov: never noticed that either<br />
<br />[11:10] George Equus: no problems with 1 "prim" mesh objects<br />
<br />[11:10] Ubit Umarov: but some prims do stay hidden until touched, ocasionaly with fs<br />
<br />[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are you using textures with an alpah cannel on the mesh?<br />
<br />[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cause that can cause all kinds of interesting issues<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: yeap the always funny alpha bug<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: see it on some avatars.. terrible<br />
<br />[11:12] George Equus: Might have copy of the bad link set still, will pop over to sandbox and check it out and hopefully you can examine the link set. brb<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: but chaning the alpha mode may help<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: this is a sandbox<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: 2 late<br />
<br />[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just about to ask George which physics engine he is using. I will have to hold that question until he returns.<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well what news do you bring andrew ?<br />
<br />[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: LL is no longer going to back Sansar. That could bring people back to SL or OpenSim grids.<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might<br />
<br />[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think Sansar had much traction anyway<br />
<br />[11:16] Ubit Umarov: last i saw they still had no idea what to do with sansar, telling ppl to keep playing there<br />
<br />[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: It had a number of obstacles to deal with from the start. Convincing people to try using it for one. Not having it as easy for creating items is another issue.<br />
<br />[11:17] Ubit Umarov: guess they are trying to sell it<br />
<br />[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ebbe said they are negotiating to sell it<br />
<br />[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: wb, George.<br />
<br />[11:17] Ubit Umarov: George this is a sandbox also :)<br />
<br />[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was an online interviewe with hin on Friday<br />
<br />[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: George, what physics engine are you using?<br />
<br />[11:17] George Equus: thanks. found it. anyone want a copy let me know<br />
<br />[11:18] George Equus: ubODE<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: you can rez it back there<br />
<br />[11:19] George Equus: OK done that now<br />
<br />[11:19] Ubit Umarov: misissing prims?<br />
<br />[11:19] George Equus: zoom in and you'll see the effect<br />
<br />[11:19] Ubit Umarov: on the 2 pilars at my side?<br />
<br />[11:20] Ubit Umarov: yeah fun<br />
<br />[11:20] George Equus: one side cleaned of mesh but seem just one present will destroy all, linked OR unlinked regardless<br />
<br />[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have missing detail there too Ubit, but otherwise it looks OK from all angles and distances<br />
<br />[11:21] George Equus: very annoying when aproching an object like this and all look fine from a distance but vanish in part when getting closer<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: the 2 pilars far from me do disappear<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: odd<br />
<br />[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Where is this? I don't see nuthin<br />
<br />[11:21] George Equus: it is odd. took me ages to figuer out what caused it.<br />
<br />[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not in Dayturn<br />
<br />[11:21] George Equus: remove all mesh in that set and it behave fine<br />
<br />[11:22] Ubit Umarov: gezz all parts of pilar do vanisg<br />
<br />[11:22] Ubit Umarov: guess messed up LODs<br />
<br />[11:22] George Equus: one of those mesh object count 37 in land impact... should be 1<br />
<br />[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the second one has a lot of missing detail<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: guess also happens unlinked?<br />
<br />[11:23] George Equus: yep<br />
<br />[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Where are the items you are looking at?<br />
<br />[11:24] George Equus: just next of this building Andrew<br />
<br />[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the linked one has a lot of invisible items<br />
<br />[11:24] George Equus: very difficult to edit lol when zooming in...<br />
<br />[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: The arch like thing over the path leading to this building?<br />
<br />[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you select it, they show as blue outlines<br />
<br />[11:24] George Equus: Yes Andrew<br />
<br />[11:25] George Equus: ugly, just demo the effect<br />
<br />[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: One has a land impact of 95<br />
<br />[11:25] Kayaker Magic: OK, I see them. If you zoom in close the pillars become invisible.<br />
<br />[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, I see the same Kayaker<br />
<br />[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I also see the effect Kayaker just mentioned.<br />
<br />[11:26] George Equus: right<br />
<br />[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what viewer did you upload the mesh with George?<br />
<br />[11:28] George Equus: I didn't, found it somewhere a long time ago<br />
<br />[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: hmm give me a copy of that thing plz<br />
<br />[11:28] George Equus: check it out now, all mesh removed and the original 30 m away<br />
<br />[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am more interested in inspecting the mesh<br />
<br />[11:29] Ubit Umarov: same effect<br />
<br />[11:29] George Equus: hmmm someone deleted most of it lol<br />
<br />[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one of those column heads<br />
<br />[11:29] George Equus: all yours Ubit,<br />
<br />[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you rezz just one column head, how many LI does it show?<br />
<br />[11:31] Ubit Umarov: ill try to show it beq<br />
<br />[11:31] Ubit Umarov: to beq<br />
<br />[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well one day<br />
<br />[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 672580 triangles for the rezzed item with column heads<br />
<br />[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, I have seen several videos demonstrating mirrors in SL, is that a feature of the viewer? Why is that not used?<br />
<br />[11:32] George Equus: Visually that column head is nice but technically is disaster<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ask Oz<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he does not want them<br />
<br />[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apparently the viewer takes a very significant performance hit<br />
<br />[11:33] George Equus: usual way is to fake it with reverse copy below<br />
<br />[11:33] George Equus: double the prim count<br />
<br />[11:33] Kayaker Magic: So LL never released the mirror code for the viewer?<br />
<br />[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br />[11:34] George Equus: "real" mirrors do exit in EVE online<br />
<br />[11:34] George Equus: *exist<br />
<br />[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apropos Sansar, Sincspace seems like the place people will migrate to<br />
<br />[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are videos out for how to convert both SL and Sansar content to Sinespace<br />
<br />[11:37] George Equus: Two features missing in Opensim, mirrors and lowering water on a parcel would make this near perfect. The one thing that will never be possible is digging a tunnel...<br />
<br />[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Water height can be set. Mirrors would be nice.<br />
<br />[11:39] George Equus: Water height can only be lowered over a whole region. would be nice to be able to dig a hole for say a swimming pool with "real" system water in it<br />
<br />[11:40] Ubit Umarov: seems its the mesh really<br />
<br />[11:40] Ubit Umarov: no water is a sinlge object<br />
<br />[11:40] George Equus: Building a mine, well trying to anyway, so lowered ground and water to - 100m on a region<br />
<br />[11:41] George Equus: no haze effects when going down there<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: and mirrors are viers thing<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mirror with recursion should really give the viewer something to chew on<br />
<br />[11:43] George Equus: Water seem to be same technically as ground, would imply possibility to dig a water free hole...<br />
<br />[11:43] George Equus: Mirrors would be a hit for many on opensim<br />
<br />[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: You can always submit a pull request for your ideas George, and I am sure the code will be tested<br />
<br />[11:46] George Equus: Would not know how to Gavin, not a tech person so just speak about it in public...lol<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, then there will be no mirrors<br />
<br />[11:46] George Equus: Wish I knew how to code though, would facilitate a lot<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as it will be a massive performance hit<br />
<br />[11:47] George Equus: No idea how a mirror works but have no impact at all in EVE as far as I know<br />
<br />[11:47] George Equus: but very different code I image<br />
<br />[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is eve?<br />
<br />[11:48] George Equus: EVE Online, a space Battle game. booring... spent a year and got fed up<br />
<br />[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why are you comparing tow completely different platforms?<br />
<br />[11:48] George Equus: Avatars could at one point walk in a cabin cor crews and there woas a mirror to check your outfit in<br />
<br />[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet you every mirror there is faked with textures<br />
<br />[11:51] George Equus: Not comparing anything Gavin, just stating the fact mirrors do exist in the gaming world. Would be cool to have that on opensim but code are too different and old I assume as we never see it here or in SL.<br />
<br />[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Opensim or SL is NOT a gaming world<br />
<br />[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br />[11:51] George Equus: EVE mirrors are "the real thing and behave exactly as in the real world<br />
<br />[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In a game there is virtually NO dynamic content, and every scene is usually highly optimized and canned<br />
<br />[11:52] George Equus: Gavinm, please don't pick on words, you know what I mean<br />
<br />[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, I don't know what you mean<br />
<br />[11:52] George Equus: Let's drop the subject then.<br />
<br />[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br />[11:52] George Equus: "game" is a flexible term , annoying sosme it seem.<br />
<br />[11:53] George Equus: I regard opensim a dev place not a game<br />
<br />[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not when it comes to hwo it is constructed<br />
<br />[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Just under 10 minutes to the top of the hour. Does someone have another topic for todays gathering?<br />
<br />[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: How is Kitely coming along Selby?<br />
<br />[11:54] George Equus: Anyone want to play some more with the mesh or can I delete it?<br />
<br />[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think you should probably delete it as it seems corrupt<br />
<br />[11:55] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kitely is generally wworking well<br />
<br />[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they have sorted the issues that were?<br />
<br />[11:55] George Equus: Def. corrupt lol. Pity on the pillar heads they are unusable though<br />
<br />[11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: But they are still fixing problems. Their customer who wanted 0.9 is apparently saticfied<br />
<br />[11:56] Kayaker Magic: Can any viewer save mesh as a DAE? I just tried to save that pillar head as DAE to look at it in Blender, FS would not let me.<br />
<br />[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn can<br />
<br />[11:57] George Equus: Seem I can't delete those two link sets out front.<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well i had no feedback about kitely issues still<br />
<br />[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you have sufficient privs to the mesh<br />
<br />[11:57] George Equus: FS can't unfortunately,<br />
<br />[11:57] Kayaker Magic: George, I'll try to tear that pillar head apart and see if it can be fixed. Bug me next week!<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: If FS can't I wonder why the menu entry is still enabled in the viewer.<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: you need full rights kayker<br />
<br />[11:58] Kayaker Magic: God mode in my own region should fix that....<br />
<br />[11:58] George Equus: cool Kayaker! I will. good luck<br />
<br />[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS should if you have full ownership to mesh and textures<br />
<br />[11:59] Kayaker Magic: But I have to go see a man about cutting down a tree in RL. Gota run!<br />
<br />[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. tc<br />
<br />[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Have fun<br />
<br />[11:59] Kayaker Magic: Bye for now!<br />
<br />[11:59] George Equus: Bye<br />
<br />[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Its the top of the hour. If there is nothing more for today we can wrap up this meeting.<br />
<br />[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: New viewer build was out on Monday<br />
<br />[12:00] George Equus: Didn't Singu allow DAE export?<br />
<br />[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a few fixes plus the ability to see all grid URIs for a grid<br />
<br />[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have also opened a support case with Apple Developer support on signing/notraizing the viewer<br />
<br />[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no easy fix I am afraid<br />
<br />[12:03] George Equus: Thanks for an interesting hour. Back to my project. Bye everyone.<br />
<br />[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye George<br />
<br />[12:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye everyone<br />
<br />[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye Selby<br />
<br />[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.</div>Kcozens