Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-03

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[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks Hello, everyone.
[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks What is a BoM viewer?
[11:03] Bill.Blight Bake on Mesh
[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks oh, ok. I see BoM and think BOM which means something completely different.
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks Here we are for another gathering in the ongoing weekly developer meeting series. :)
[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks Ubit, at the recent Kitely meeting someone commented on the difference in link and unlink speed between 0.8 and 0.9. You replied with "0.91 link does not that that time". I didn't understand the reply. Perhaps you can clarify the statement.
[11:09] Ubit Umarov: just that plugh, he claimed it takes 1sec to link a object on 0.9
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: well it may.. if 1000 prims
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: i think there was a version that did had a somewhat slow link time.. guess on mantis
[11:11] Gavin.Hird how often do you have to link 1000 objects?
[11:11] Gavin.Hird and not have the time to say wait a second
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks Gavin, I didn't see it as there was a lot of stuff to read through in that meeting. I ran through it quickly.
[11:12] Gavin.Hird ok
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks I forget which way round it is but between 0.8 and 0.9 one is faster at linking and the other at unlinking.
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well 0.9 still raises some funny claims
[11:12] Gavin.Hird compared to the time it takes to link the viewer...
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: lol gavin :)
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar Why is your shirt light blue Ubit?
[11:13] Gavin.Hird it is his mesh alter ego
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: guess same reason face looks red
[11:14] Arielle.Popstar yes him and Bill
[11:14] Gavin.Hird redskin
[11:14] Bill.Blight we are wearing Bake on Mesh, and if you don't have the viewer you see default textures ...
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: like that little guy in central bench
[11:15] Arielle.Popstar oh need the special viewer for this BoM version?
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks When I can get some time I will have to see if I can get some times for linking and unlinking. It has been a while since I last looked at the SOP/SOG code. I remember noticing that the handling of the lists could be improved in a way that might reduce sending updates to the viewer.
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks reduce the amount of updates
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks I was thinking perhaps Ubit is preparing for a role in a DC/Marvel movie
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks Bill is just a cloud to me.
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:16] Gavin.Hird same here
[11:16] Gavin.Hird fluffy cloud
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks ok, now I see bill.
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar will FS be releasing a Opensim version with BoM like s/l does it?
[11:16] Selby.Evans That is what I see.
[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks he also has the same effect I see on Ubit with red face and purple arms.
[11:17] Selby.Evans now Bill is rezzing
[11:17] Arielle.Popstar he needs to do a rebake then since i bet both of you are on sing
[11:17] Gavin.Hird baked ands red faced
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: we can't tell what fs will do
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks I'm on FS.
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: or other viewers but dayturn here represented
[11:18] Bill.Blight And I compiled a version of FS for the BoM
[11:18] Gavin.Hird I want to support BOM, but right now there are other issues / features ahead in the queue
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: but a compiled version of fos does it as bill just said
[11:19] Bill.Blight There is even a linux version for Andrew ... :P
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: fos and fs :p
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar isnt there ways to do BoM without needing special viewer support?
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks Good to know, Bill.
[11:19] Gavin.Hird I don't think so Arielle
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: Arielle No
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar oh i know there is Gavin
[11:19] Bill.Blight NOt if you want/need a viewer interface for it
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: its a viewer side hack, and not that easy
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar it was a leading question
[11:20] Arielle.Popstar i see
[11:20] Gavin.Hird we looked into the Bitbucket deleting all repositories
[11:20] Arielle.Popstar can i see a picture of the interface?
[11:20] Gavin.Hird and the issue of converting it to git
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: you mean HG ?
[11:21] Gavin.Hird which is very error prone for the viewer repositories
[11:21] Gavin.Hird convert from HG to git
[11:21] Gavin.Hird as Bitbucket will delete all HG repositories
[11:21] Gavin.Hird so I found an alternative I have tested for self hosting, and it is actually pretty good
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: even on that ll had to choose the wrong system ::)
[11:22] Gavin.Hird just as a means of keeping the old repositories with all the history intact
[11:22] Bill.Blight 7cf8a13dae8cb2e0e58573f194e17d4f.png
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: jpeg2000, HG.. xml encoding :)
[11:22] Gavin.Hird if you go to you can see it in action
[11:22] Arielle.Popstar so thats a baked texture Bill?
[11:23] Gavin.Hird there are some 20 repositories loaded at the moment
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks hehe... baked head. :)
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: Universal wearable can't be used on most opensim versions
[11:23] Bill.Blight LOL .. So like life
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: future version my block teleports to older versions, according to outfit
[11:24] Arielle.Popstar huh?
[11:24] Bill.Blight or suffer the BOOOOOOMM!
[11:25] Arielle.Popstar am i reading that right?
[11:25] Gavin.Hird that's not good
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: no point sending a outfit that not only can cause regions troubles ( or even BOOMMM) and arrive broken for all users there
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: in past we did block tps to vars
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: nothing new
[11:25] Arielle.Popstar oh that will go over well
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks It could be seen as another reason for people to upgrade their grids from 0.8
[11:26] Gavin.Hird it is a pretty convoluted feature as it is at the moment ëvery video on YT trying to explain it is 40-60 minutes
[11:26] Arielle.Popstar maybe better to consider a different version of Bom if it is not backwards compatible?
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well even on new code, ppl with older viewers will see as you see me and bill
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: or worse on more complex meshes
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: but that we aill not block
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: a issue similar to when meshes where introduced
[11:28] Arielle.Popstar dont forget we have osl code that picks up baked textures and can be applied to meshes anyway
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks ok. Now I know how to identify if someone is using BoM.
[11:28] Arielle.Popstar wqe dont really need the viewer support though it looks nice
[11:28] Gavin.Hird haha
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: you mean npcs?
[11:28] Arielle.Popstar no
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar i have had a script to apply bakes on mesh for several years
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well i didn't look to npcs, but should be easy
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar its nothing new for opensim
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: Arielle its not just that
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: read about BoM for the next meeting ;)
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: it has pros and cons, like eveything
[11:30] Arielle.Popstar i have, it is a convoluted workflow meant for protection in s/l
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks I have the new BoM viewer. I'll be using it after this meeting.
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: but its not just to put a baked texture on a prim
[11:30] Gavin.Hird exactly Arielle
[11:31] Gavin.Hird not that we don't need to protect content creators in opensim
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well it also can reduce the number of downloads needed
[11:31] Gavin.Hird can
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: see ppl dividing some like it, some don't
[11:32] Gavin.Hird but more an incentive to not create avatars with 5 geografted layers
[11:32] Arielle.Popstar well Nani and Hyacinth also put a server side BoM in their version that doesnt need special viewers
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: but most agree most avatars will be a bit lighter with it
[11:32] Arielle.Popstar
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: we are talking about this feature viewers may have now
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar not in opensim and Gavin is saying it wont be easy
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar and you are saying it will break backward compatibility
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: basic BoM on opensim is very easy opensim side
[11:34] Arielle.Popstar to the point of having to block tp's
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: yes it will
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: it's cost of improvements
[11:35] Arielle.Popstar i suspect it will not fly
[11:35] Gavin.Hird if you want to be able to send the correct outfit/mesh to everyone in the scene regardless of old or new viewer it is tricky
[11:35] Gavin.Hird if you just break all old behaior, it is significantly easier
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: will not happen gavin.Hird
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: at least so many older sim versions
[11:35] Sheera Khan: too bad - my old laptop still has glibc2.26 and can't run the BoM-viewer :-(
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: hardcoded for 6 baked meshs and 32 max
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: they kept the name, unlike some ugly ppl
[11:36] Ubit Umarov looks to bill
[11:36] Arielle.Popstar Bill could take that baked texture and just apply it to his mesh and its done. Why does it need anything more?
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: Arielle not the same
[11:37] Arielle.Popstar in what way?
[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks I can't run the BoM viewer either as I don't have the required glibc library.
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: you can take ONE mesh copy
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: it will look different on you than it will look on me
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: the same mesh...
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: according to the rest of wearables
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar well yes, you have a male mesh body and me female
[11:38] Arielle.Popstar hopefully
[11:38] Gavin.Hird I think it is problematic that when SL releases a feature, we just jump on it as if it was the end of the world if not supported immediately
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: my mesh exactly the same Bill is wearing
[11:39] Gavin.Hird SL has a unified environment where changes are relatively easy to enforce
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: and on a fs 6.3.1 we do look very dif
[11:39] Gavin.Hird in opensim nothing can be enforced
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: in fact with this simple avatar, as we did look without the mesh :)
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks In SL viewer updates are downloaded automatically. Not so with OpenSim viewers.
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: by the way viewer version tags will be gone
[11:40] Gavin.Hird and they only have one server instance were all the backend is running the same
[11:40] Gavin.Hird far from so in opensim
[11:41] Arielle.Popstar yes but still supposed to be a way to tell what version of viewer you have
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks Ubit, no tags at all or just for releases?
[11:41] Arielle.Popstar read or heard about that
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: andrew those tags over avatars with dif colours acording to viewer version
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: ( you did vote that lol )
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. I thought you meant tags in the source tree.
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: well those also.. they where killing git
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: now only on a release point
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I don't recall a vote on that topic. Not that I care what other people are using for viewer. unless they need help with something.
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Ubit.
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: gezz what a pain when i did restored some 30000 of those
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: spent an afternoon deleting them again
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile git almost useless :)
[11:44] Arielle.Popstar so is there a place to download the BoM FS viewer?
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember the problem with the tags in the source code for the main OpenSim code. Don't know why someone felt the need to tag every single commit.
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: a non official version yes arielle.Popstar
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: its in front of your eyes :p
[11:45] Arielle.Popstar i use unnofficial versions all the time :)
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I might try compiling the source myself to see if that avoids the library version problem.
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: it also has plugh map search thing
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: according to Bill :)
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar looks at her drink for a viewer download link
[11:46] Bill Blight: yes and fixed the "not found" box that was popping up randomly when you searched and it only found one
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: now full BoM suport ( the one that will cause blocked tps etc ) in still working on it region side
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar where in front of my eyes Ubit.Umarov?
[11:47] Bill Blight: Do seriously mean you can't see the avatar model standing at the center bar with the floating text to download the viewer
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and viewers will need a few changes
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: ( they also can't send any BoM things to older regions (
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I noticed it the moment I arrived.
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar cool
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar ty
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: by full BoM i mean having the universal wearable and the baked textures it controls
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: We are down to 12 minutes before the top of the hour. Does someone have another question or topic for todays meeting?
[11:49] Bill Blight: Yes I compiled the linux version on ubuntu 18 because well ... Nobody should be very far behind that ... :P
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: LOL, I like the lack of warranty notice!
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, so always says those who like to stay right on top of the latest releases. :)
[11:50] Arielle.Popstar any tutorials for building compiling FS in windows?
[11:50] Bill Blight: Ubuntu 19 is getting ready to come out
[11:50] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:51] Bill Blight: so yeah
[11:51] Bill Blight: Nearsighted
[11:51] Bill Blight: people
[11:51] Bill Blight: :P
[11:51] Bill Blight:
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: do not forget the war and peace part
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I know Mint 19.1 has been release. I'm still on 18.3 but I do have 19 installed in a separate partition. I just haven't tried it out. I'm not sure about the change in how package management is now being done with this time something or other thing that was introduced.
[11:52] Arielle.Popstar i recall you saying you had a lot of trouble with their instructions Bill
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder how much they messed up Linux this time.
[11:52] Bill Blight: Had trouble with the Singu build
[11:52] Bill Blight: FS was no problem
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: It can take a bit of work in order to be able to build a viewer.
[11:52] Bill Blight: I gave up on compiling Singu
[11:53] Arielle.Popstar thought andrew managed sing
[11:53] Arielle.Popstar pretty sure Hyacinth has too
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I had tried and given up building a viewer several times until some time later when I tried again it finally compiled. I used the instructions on the Sing site.
[11:53] Arielle.Popstar but you the only one i heard of that did FS
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Singularity with the first viewer I managed to compile. I have since compiled Firestorm. The version of FS I'm currently running is one I compiled.
[11:54] Gavin.Hird there is a difference in compiling a repository that already is building and release ready, and to maintain and progress it over time
[11:54] Bill Blight: big diff
[11:56] Bill Blight: I only compiled it on Ubuntu 18 because I was told you couldn't
[11:56] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:56] Gavin.Hird haha
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: i managed to comp a singu version.. then a alch version and recently fs one
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: not all at same time :)
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: now i can only comp fs :)
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Once you can compile one viewer you can probably compile many others. The initial problem is getting all the dependencies in place.
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( and without sound etc.. i don't bother getting the needed libs for it )
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: not really andrew
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: all different
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: dif dependencies, dif autobuild tools etc
[11:57] Gavin.Hird there is quite a big diffferenve between the viewer in the build procedures and requirements
[11:57] Gavin.Hird diff libs
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: all dif
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I couldn't compile any viewer until one day I could do Sing. Once I could do Sing I was able to do FS.
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: i never managed to compile kokua
[11:58] Gavin.Hird kokua for SL?
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ahh and dif VS versions
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: You mean there are some viewers using same build systems?
[11:58] Gavin.Hird no
[11:58] Gavin.Hird hehe
[11:59] Gavin.Hird just different versions of insanity
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: different versions of what may seem more or less identical
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't use VS to do builds.
[11:59] Gavin.Hird it is not meant to build in VS
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: duhh tou still need each version tools
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: if you use the ide or not, just a final detail
[12:00] Gavin.Hird plus you have different OS versions as well
[12:01] Gavin.Hird macOS versions cannot be built on anything but Mac hardware
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: i really only want to look to sources using the ide :)
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: if compiles or not, its a detail
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: no plans on making viewer code changes
[12:01] Gavin.Hird and Singu use an ancient version of Xcode
[12:01] Gavin.Hird so I can't build it
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, That would depend on if a person was cross-compiling or was running a good emulator on non Mac hardware.
[12:02] Gavin.Hird it cannot be cross compiled
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: guess a win only viewer could kill all that cmake crap
[12:02] Gavin.Hird it MUST be compiled with Xcode
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd like to see a viewer using something like cmake. That would be preferable to the build system I see in Sing and FS.
[12:03] Bill Blight: FS uses cmake
[12:03] Gavin.Hird Dayturn and SL, Kokua all use cmake
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: andrew they use cmake :)
[12:03] Gavin.Hird and it is a complete mess
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I mostly remember the days when it was whatever SL had been using which was some strange beast of a way to build code.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't care whether it uses cmake or autofoo. They are both easy to use for compiling.
[12:05] Gavin.Hird it use autobuild to generate cmake code, for a VS pr Xcode project
[12:05] Gavin.Hird on Windows you install cygwin and build the VS project thre
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: not really
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: it used the cmake from it
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: but controled by vs compilers
[12:06] Gavin.Hird on macOS you use Xcodebuild to build the project configured via autobuild -> cmake
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: wel or something like that
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: i do compile fs inside the ide now
[12:07] Gavin.Hird it is not properly packaged for distribution then
[12:07] Gavin.Hird you can build it in VS for testing
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: and why would i want that? :)
[12:07] Gavin.Hird if you are in the business of distributing viewer to actual users, you want to do that
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: sure, but im not
[12:08] Gavin.Hird right
[12:08] Gavin.Hird remember that when when you hand out unofficial viewers
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: Bill did managed to mk full packages :)
[12:08] Gavin.Hird when nobody is ready to maintain for you?
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: well hand out and maintain are unrelated things
[12:10] Gavin.Hird There is one line on the FS repository: ATTN Viewer developers: Please do not add our orignal, pre-release code to other viewer before we release it ourselves
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: totally unrelated :p
[12:11] Gavin.Hird and FS has not released what is over there in the corner
[12:11] Bill Blight: But technically , if they post it to their LGPL repository they can't stop anybody from releasing it
[12:11] Gavin.Hird sure not except ban you
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: actually FS can ask.. not impose anything
[12:12] Bill Blight: right
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: but academic discussion
[12:12] Gavin.Hird and it is the same with LL code
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I tried to build FS but it says I need to set LL_BUILD first.
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: this are just test things for a limited audience
[12:12] Gavin.Hird we don't release it unless in a release viewer
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: at least here
[12:12] Arielle.Popstar so shouldnt tell any FS viewers Opensim has a FS Opensim viewer?
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: no Arielle.Popstar
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: it is just a test thing,
[12:13] Arielle.Popstar but we should be allowed a tester viewer
[12:13] Gavin.Hird FS has an opensim viewer released 4 months ago
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: at least opensim offical position
[12:13] Bill Blight: did you follow the instructions Andrew and download and set the build variables
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: for us opensim FS means Firestorm official releases of course
[12:13] Gavin.Hird their release viewer is also 4 months old
[12:14] Arielle.Popstar they have beta testers
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: that does not mean we can't pre test their code
[12:14] Arielle.Popstar maybe i should apply
[12:14] Gavin.Hird so we might test developer builds
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: even a few test changes to submit to them
[12:14] Gavin.Hird but we should not use their code to distribute
[12:15] Bill Blight:
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: but no one can forbid others from forking FS, remaning it, fixing the credentials etc..
[12:15] Gavin.Hird sure
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I was just going through what it said in the README file for Linux.
[12:15] Gavin.Hird but that is a relatively big job
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: ie other name, proper mention to fs on credentials etc
[12:15] Gavin.Hird even a namechange is
[12:15] Bill Blight: follow the website
[12:15] Bill Blight: not he readme
[12:16] Bill Blight: the site is updated
[12:16] Bill Blight: readme not so much I think
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: thats what all TPVs did from the SL source :)
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: What? The readme in the source tree is out of date? Shocking.  ;)
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:16] Bill Blight:
[12:16] Gavin.Hird they did Ubit, but there are no TPV viewer that are exactly LL code
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have a go at that another time. After this meeting I need to get back to finishing off a couple of routines for some paid work.
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: just saying that anyone can do the same starting on any tpv
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: in fact some out there derived from other tpv source
[12:17] Gavin.Hird the chain for dayturn is kokua and imprudence
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: like derived from alch etc
[12:18] Gavin.Hird imprudence was largely built with the snowglobe LL code, but not completely
[12:18] Bill Blight: the ones here are not EXACTLY FS code, they have patches that are not in FS and will be on Github later today unless i break it
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: ( ok will be on git next week bc Bill will break it )
[12:18] Bill Blight: ^^^^ What he said
[12:19] Gavin.Hird :-)
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: well for me, this are just previews of BoM support
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: thanks Bill for making them
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: We are well past the hour mark. Any other last minute items before we wrap up todays gathering?
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: since it has been impossible to talk with any fs dev in last weeks
[12:20] Gavin.Hird I am going to test a new windows build in a few once it has compiled
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: and its fs bc i don't see any other viewer with it
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: tpv i mean
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: and as i said that code as is can't be deployed for all opensim usage
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, the instructions on the website result in a different message that the AUTOBUILD_VARIABLES_FILE is not set.
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure if that is progress or not. :)
[12:23] Gavin.Hird right
[12:23] Gavin.Hird LL has a repository of their variables
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: unless universal wearable is fully blocked for all opensim versions that will not tell viewer they do suport it
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: that will be most likely a flag on a lludp packet
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: region handshake packet, Protocol field bit 63 i guess
[12:24] Bill Blight:
[12:24] Bill Blight: that i the one you should be using
[12:24] Arielle.Popstar so it will block tp to any region older then that commit?
[12:24] Bill Blight: cd ~/src/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl
source ../fs-build-variables/convenience Release
export AUTOBUILD_VARIABLES_FILE=$HOME/src/fs-build-variables/variables
[12:25] Bill Blight: yada yada yada
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: arielle new opensim code with suport for the universal wearable will forbid tps of ppl wearing to older regions
[12:26] Bill Blight: It could crash the destination region if it allowed it
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: yes
[12:26] Arielle.Popstar maybe should branch it then?
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: and even if they didn't, they will be a mess as seen by others
[12:26] Arielle.Popstar or fork?
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: no branch no fork
[12:27] Arielle.Popstar no use then
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: you just change the outfit and you can tp
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: as you should change outfits bf HG
[12:27] Arielle.Popstar oh so it is only if one is using a BoM?
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: ppl should use simpler outfits on HG
[12:27] Arielle.Popstar pfft
[12:28] Sheera.Khan Don't you think that would justify a jump in the minor version from 0.9.1 to 0.9.2?
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: yes arielle wearing the breaking universal wearable that adds 5 more baked textures
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: from 26 to 45 total
[12:28] Sheera.Khan Just as an indicator where the change happened?
[12:28] Arielle.Popstar good point Sheera
[12:28] Ubit Umarov: my local code is current a total mess :)
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: well it is working
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: but also tring to clean up the appearence code, bakes handling etc
[12:30] Arielle.Popstar so maybe do a pre release before adding that bom
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: bet for a while master will have a few issues on that :)
[12:30] Arielle.Popstar its a pretty major change
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: well no new issue
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: first time i did add physics layer suport, i did kill a main avination region on a tp :)
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: with a lot of ppl on it :)
[12:32] Sheera.Khan I guess that was totally worth it ;-)
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: today we do send that to older regions, but will arrive broken
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: but no one really notices..
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: about how good or bad BoM is
[12:34] Arielle.Popstar so will you consider making this a release version?
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: seem ppl on both sides at sl blogs
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: it does save alpha layers etc
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: hanging some look is change wearing another weable
[12:36] Ubit Umarov: no need for scripts etc
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: well lets see
[12:37] Sheera.Khan So it can be useful to reduce the load on viewers - and that's great stuff :-)
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: yeap that was a drive reason
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: they claim that mesh avatars need to have less meshes
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: seems some have 100 or more layers of meshes
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: gezzz
[12:38] Arielle.Popstar all it does is lessen the need for multiple layers
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: "all"
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: lol
[12:38] Arielle.Popstar most meshes have no more then 3 anyway
[12:38] Sheera.Khan that in itself is a reason to do it
[12:38] Arielle.Popstar not really
[12:39] Arielle.Popstar typical complexity nowadays is under a 100k
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: says the one always complained avatars take time to load :p
[12:39] Arielle.Popstar thats not because of complexity
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: oh no?
[12:39] Sheera.Khan The viewer has to render significantly less - especially if the sim has a lot of visitors
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: complexity is what ??
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:40] Arielle.Popstar not much of anything which is why s/l is relooking at the measurement
[12:40] Ubit Umarov: gezz my basic is 1424 complexity
[12:40] Arielle.Popstar a lot of it makes no sense
[12:40] Ubit Umarov: errr why do i have a tatoo ??
[12:40] Arielle.Popstar well then put better system avatars in
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: hmm ai gave it to me
[12:41] Arielle.Popstar then no need for external mesh avatars
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: yeah viewers should do that
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: ll should had done that
[12:41] Arielle.Popstar you should do that as you have the ability now to compile and release a viewer
[12:42] Ubit Umarov: yeah if you like a viewer without sound and install package :p
[12:42] Ubit Umarov: ( my compiled one )
[12:42] Arielle.Popstar Bill can do it
[12:42] Arielle.Popstar or teach you how
[12:43] Ubit Umarov: yeah but we are not viewer devs
[12:43] Arielle.Popstar then there is no need for BoM is there
[12:43] Ubit Umarov: this and avatar code is far from the simpler kind of code
[12:43] Arielle.Popstar we have the best then because we have a decent lightweight avatar mesh
[12:43] Ubit Umarov: most tpvs don't even touch it
[12:44] Ubit Umarov: or most tpvs devs

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