Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-23

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The meeting is about to start at 20:00 CEST or 18:00 UTC at "The Meeting Place" on region "Dev Outreach" in OSGrid - See you there :-)
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[11:09] Arielle Popstar: so now that FS has a Opensim only viewer, any  new  features  or fixes planned?
 +
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: who are you asking Arielle?
 +
<br>[11:11] Arielle Popstar: Ubit or anyone else who might be  planning  something
 +
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plan what?
 +
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am just interested in what you think will happen
 +
<br>[11:12] Arielle Popstar: well core devs  been wanting a  opensim only viewer for ages. The time has arrived
 +
<br>[11:12] Bill Blight: They have not release it yet
 +
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: we don't control fs devs
 +
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because FS will probalby be frozen as is for a long time
 +
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: fear most their attention will be on the SL only one
 +
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have a hellish merge in front of them for the SL version
 +
<br>[11:12] Arielle Popstar: they have released a  SL only one so the opensim one is open to specific  opensim changes
 +
<br>[11:13] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I have the same fear Ubit but trying to stay positive
 +
<br>[11:13] Bill Blight: I is no more open than it was before , just that now it is a separate repo
 +
<br>[11:13] Arielle Popstar: the have one coder at least whose interest is in opensim
 +
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right
 +
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: on singularity Liru did work on adding the new parcel/estate things
 +
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: ill try to look to opensim side
 +
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: code does not even compile on macOS
 +
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hasn't for many years
 +
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: what code does not compile?
 +
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Singu
 +
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well i did not tried
 +
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it barely compiles for Windows
 +
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: always a pain to compile a viewer
 +
<br>[11:15] Bill Blight: Ubit and I did some work with Beq and was very positive , so I hope that trend continues
 +
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeah but Beq did warn that will not have time for opensim features
 +
<br>[11:15] Arielle Popstar: thats the dev  who is interested in opensim
 +
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did it result in any changes / addition?
 +
<br>[11:16] Bill Blight: we were on a bug hunt, but nothing NEW
 +
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: the problems she did look at where actualy SL problems also
 +
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what were the problems?
 +
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: some old things i did add on fs jira ( to be kicked by ansariel )
 +
<br>[11:17] Bill Blight: xfer, and object contents loading .. and a few others I forget now
 +
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
 +
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: spam due to offline messages etc
 +
<br>[11:17] Bill Blight: FS is its own worst enemy when it comes to object content loading ..
 +
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, discussed here before
 +
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeap old things
 +
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: i have not talked with Beq sinc then
 +
<br>[11:18] Bill Blight: I Think I saw her once since then, in passing
 +
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there were new viewer builds a couple days back at https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/
 +
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: primarily fixes for the ao and removal of the SL grids
 +
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: well i need to look to what liru did, and try to suport it
 +
<br>[11:19] Arielle Popstar: kk thx Gavin
 +
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am a bit slow at making changes as I had a heart incident at the end of May after which the heart is running very slow parts of the day so I spontaneous fall asleep, and therefore not able to concentrate much
 +
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: she did merge the new sl code on estate access etc
 +
<br>[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 wishes you all the best for a full recovery
 +
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx
 +
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: thats another potencial issue with the FS split,,,
 +
<br>[11:23] Arielle Popstar: oh careful of that Gavin
 +
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: they may decide that new SL features are not for opensim
 +
<br>[11:24] Arielle Popstar: well maybe they need to know if  opensim devs will put them server side
 +
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: and without a viewer with new features to suport, we can't suport
 +
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: so.. well.. lets see
 +
<br>[11:27] George Equus: btw, on water... Successfully lowered the water level on one region, it worked just fine. Thanks for that info!!
 +
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: glad to hear
 +
<br>[11:27] Bill Blight: cool
 +
<br>[11:28] George Equus: If only could do that on one parcel...  picture a mountain region with deep mines and small mountain lakes with "real" system water...
 +
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right
 +
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think that is hard to implement in the current renderer
 +
<br>[11:29] Arielle Popstar: i'd like system water  to use for a mirror
 +
<br>[11:29] George Equus: hard to simulate water with prims and textures realistically
 +
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I agree
 +
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: water needs special gpu code
 +
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Skye has a water system that works reasonably good
 +
<br>[11:30] George Equus: and you loose the water experience when walking in to a lake
 +
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: that would be a cool thing to show s/l up on
 +
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: as well as  a better system avatar
 +
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: especially the female one
 +
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: same games do have damm good water now
 +
<br>[11:30] George Equus: If accomplished would make OSGrid unique
 +
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: it would george
 +
<br>[11:31] Arielle Popstar: and we need that
 +
<br>[11:31] Arielle Popstar: to show we can do it better here
 +
<br>[11:40] Arielle Popstar: so whats  a wishlist if we could get viewer side support?
 +
<br>[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the current OpenSim related topic of discussion?
 +
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Arielle is making wishes
 +
<br>[11:41] Arielle Popstar: the recent FS opensim only viewer
 +
<br>[11:41] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: could secure logins via the viewer be possible?
 +
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no
 +
<br>[11:42] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: they are already
 +
<br>[11:42] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: short and sweet
 +
<br>[11:42] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Are they Royale?
 +
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Oz Linden was asked about that in the last TPV meeting, and he basically not doable with the current code
 +
<br>[11:42] Arielle Popstar: https?
 +
<br>[11:42] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: if you mean via https is already doable
 +
<br>[11:43] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Would like that for my grid
 +
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no it is not
 +
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only for a small portion of the communication
 +
<br>[11:43] Arielle Popstar: yes thought HY on hgluv has already
 +
<br>[11:43] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I can name several grids who have https logins
 +
<br>[11:43] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I thought it all happens in plain text in Opensim?
 +
<br>[11:45] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: SL & Zetaworlds for example have https login uris
 +
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the login page, yes
 +
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the rest of the comms is NOT https
 +
<br>[11:45] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: grid uri not splash
 +
<br>[11:45] Arielle Popstar: but does it work for hypergrid?
 +
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: regions could use https already
 +
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you rewrite the viewer
 +
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: please go ahead
 +
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: it does https gavin.Hird
 +
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: and so do 0.91 regions
 +
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: When Oz says it is not doable with the current viewer code I listen to him
 +
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but not robust still
 +
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 99% of all viewer code is Linden code
 +
<br>[11:46] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: which is the part that authenticates the user?
 +
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: dont know what he was talking about
 +
<br>[11:47] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: and most of the lindens who know the viewer best are gone
 +
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why they struggle to make changes
 +
<br>[11:47] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: so to summarize partially and no to my question.
 +
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, He might say that but it might not be true. There have been a few instances where some code change was thought to be major work and in the end it wasn't that difficult. Sometimes it takes someone who doesn't know it is supposed to be hard to do it. :)
 +
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The hard code is the renderer
 +
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have not managed to recruit a render enginner despite having the position open for 2 years
 +
<br>[11:49] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I know the lindens used to ask Latif Khalifa questions about the viewer protocol before he died as apparently he knew it better then the current lindens
 +
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so every piddly little change that also affect all content is a real struggle
 +
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: That shows the value of documenting code.
 +
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true, but to write a renderer you probably have to be all in on it
 +
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: George, Last week you said you had some OS related questions. Did you get a chance to ask any of them today?
 +
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks waits for George to finish typing.
 +
<br>[12:01] George Equus: Only got one "biggie" (for me) a script that won't function  on the current version but that is more of someone looking at the script and adjust it. Asked the creator but he never came back  with a working solution :)  Is a patrol bot script. Ubit took a look ages ago.
 +
<br>[12:01] George Equus: sorry type too much in one go  lol
 +
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: np
 +
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Was the script written for SL or for OS?
 +
<br>[12:02] George Equus: Apart from the per parcel water I am rather happy with things here
  
 
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]
 
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]

Latest revision as of 11:19, 23 July 2019

[11:09] Arielle Popstar: so now that FS has a Opensim only viewer, any new features or fixes planned?
[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: who are you asking Arielle?
[11:11] Arielle Popstar: Ubit or anyone else who might be planning something
[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plan what?
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am just interested in what you think will happen
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: well core devs been wanting a opensim only viewer for ages. The time has arrived
[11:12] Bill Blight: They have not release it yet
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: we don't control fs devs
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because FS will probalby be frozen as is for a long time
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: fear most their attention will be on the SL only one
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have a hellish merge in front of them for the SL version
[11:12] Arielle Popstar: they have released a SL only one so the opensim one is open to specific opensim changes
[11:13] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I have the same fear Ubit but trying to stay positive
[11:13] Bill Blight: I is no more open than it was before , just that now it is a separate repo
[11:13] Arielle Popstar: the have one coder at least whose interest is in opensim
[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: on singularity Liru did work on adding the new parcel/estate things
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: ill try to look to opensim side
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: code does not even compile on macOS
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hasn't for many years
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: what code does not compile?
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Singu
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well i did not tried
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it barely compiles for Windows
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: always a pain to compile a viewer
[11:15] Bill Blight: Ubit and I did some work with Beq and was very positive , so I hope that trend continues
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeah but Beq did warn that will not have time for opensim features
[11:15] Arielle Popstar: thats the dev who is interested in opensim
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did it result in any changes / addition?
[11:16] Bill Blight: we were on a bug hunt, but nothing NEW
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: the problems she did look at where actualy SL problems also
[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what were the problems?
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: some old things i did add on fs jira ( to be kicked by ansariel )
[11:17] Bill Blight: xfer, and object contents loading .. and a few others I forget now
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: spam due to offline messages etc
[11:17] Bill Blight: FS is its own worst enemy when it comes to object content loading ..
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, discussed here before
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeap old things
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: i have not talked with Beq sinc then
[11:18] Bill Blight: I Think I saw her once since then, in passing
[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there were new viewer builds a couple days back at https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/
[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: primarily fixes for the ao and removal of the SL grids
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: well i need to look to what liru did, and try to suport it
[11:19] Arielle Popstar: kk thx Gavin
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am a bit slow at making changes as I had a heart incident at the end of May after which the heart is running very slow parts of the day so I spontaneous fall asleep, and therefore not able to concentrate much
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: she did merge the new sl code on estate access etc
[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 wishes you all the best for a full recovery
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: thats another potencial issue with the FS split,,,
[11:23] Arielle Popstar: oh careful of that Gavin
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: they may decide that new SL features are not for opensim
[11:24] Arielle Popstar: well maybe they need to know if opensim devs will put them server side
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: and without a viewer with new features to suport, we can't suport
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: so.. well.. lets see
[11:27] George Equus: btw, on water... Successfully lowered the water level on one region, it worked just fine. Thanks for that info!!
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: glad to hear
[11:27] Bill Blight: cool
[11:28] George Equus: If only could do that on one parcel... picture a mountain region with deep mines and small mountain lakes with "real" system water...
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think that is hard to implement in the current renderer
[11:29] Arielle Popstar: i'd like system water to use for a mirror
[11:29] George Equus: hard to simulate water with prims and textures realistically
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I agree
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: water needs special gpu code
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Skye has a water system that works reasonably good
[11:30] George Equus: and you loose the water experience when walking in to a lake
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: that would be a cool thing to show s/l up on
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: as well as a better system avatar
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: especially the female one
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: same games do have damm good water now
[11:30] George Equus: If accomplished would make OSGrid unique
[11:30] Arielle Popstar: it would george
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: and we need that
[11:31] Arielle Popstar: to show we can do it better here
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: so whats a wishlist if we could get viewer side support?
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the current OpenSim related topic of discussion?
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Arielle is making wishes
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: the recent FS opensim only viewer
[11:41] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: could secure logins via the viewer be possible?
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no
[11:42] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: they are already
[11:42] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: short and sweet
[11:42] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Are they Royale?
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Oz Linden was asked about that in the last TPV meeting, and he basically not doable with the current code
[11:42] Arielle Popstar: https?
[11:42] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: if you mean via https is already doable
[11:43] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Would like that for my grid
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no it is not
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only for a small portion of the communication
[11:43] Arielle Popstar: yes thought HY on hgluv has already
[11:43] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I can name several grids who have https logins
[11:43] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I thought it all happens in plain text in Opensim?
[11:45] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: SL & Zetaworlds for example have https login uris
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the login page, yes
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the rest of the comms is NOT https
[11:45] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: grid uri not splash
[11:45] Arielle Popstar: but does it work for hypergrid?
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: regions could use https already
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you rewrite the viewer
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: please go ahead
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: it does https gavin.Hird
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: and so do 0.91 regions
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: When Oz says it is not doable with the current viewer code I listen to him
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but not robust still
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 99% of all viewer code is Linden code
[11:46] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: which is the part that authenticates the user?
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: dont know what he was talking about
[11:47] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: and most of the lindens who know the viewer best are gone
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why they struggle to make changes
[11:47] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: so to summarize partially and no to my question.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, He might say that but it might not be true. There have been a few instances where some code change was thought to be major work and in the end it wasn't that difficult. Sometimes it takes someone who doesn't know it is supposed to be hard to do it. :)
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The hard code is the renderer
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have not managed to recruit a render enginner despite having the position open for 2 years
[11:49] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I know the lindens used to ask Latif Khalifa questions about the viewer protocol before he died as apparently he knew it better then the current lindens
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so every piddly little change that also affect all content is a real struggle
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: That shows the value of documenting code.
[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true, but to write a renderer you probably have to be all in on it
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: George, Last week you said you had some OS related questions. Did you get a chance to ask any of them today?
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks waits for George to finish typing.
[12:01] George Equus: Only got one "biggie" (for me) a script that won't function on the current version but that is more of someone looking at the script and adjust it. Asked the creator but he never came back with a working solution :) Is a patrol bot script. Ubit took a look ages ago.
[12:01] George Equus: sorry type too much in one go lol
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: np
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Was the script written for SL or for OS?
[12:02] George Equus: Apart from the per parcel water I am rather happy with things here

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