Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13

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[10:56] yui.poyun I am using postgresql for my small grid
[10:56] Kayaker Magic: I recall someone here talking about it and testing postgresql on OpenSim.
[10:56] Gavin.Hird I use postgres too
[10:56] Bill Blight: me too, but I don't remember who it was
[10:56] Bill Blight: oh well there ya go
[10:56] Ubit Umarov: don't we have it?
[10:57] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, Yui here says postgres was not working without some fixes.
[10:57] Gavin.Hird could be
[10:57] yui.poyun yes
[10:57] Gavin.Hird if you don't use the public schema it wont work
[10:58] Gavin.Hird and there is a few functions that work poorly, particularly offline messages
[10:58] Gavin.Hird otherwise it works fast and reliable
[10:59] LaNani Sundara: wow busy meeting today ;)
[11:00] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, and I have several questions to ask....
[11:00] Kayaker Magic: One is: What time/location is the OSGrid meeting that used to be Sunday at this same time?
[11:01] LaNani Sundara: do you mean the OSG townhall?
[11:01] LaNani Sundara: thats on saturday
[11:01] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, they still have that in Wrong Plaza?
[11:02] Gavin.Hird did you get your RAID sorted, Bill?
[11:02] LaNani Sundara: no in Hurliman Plaza now
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: osg has own meetings :)
[11:02] Bill Blight: yeah, but having to rebuild the VM server, something went sidewayas
[11:02] Ubit Umarov: think opensim used 2 have 2 per week
[11:02] Gavin.Hird that's a bummer
[11:03] Gavin.Hird I managed to build a VM and get the windows version of the viewer compiled
[11:03] Bill Blight: not that big of a deal I have backups of the VM's but just reloading the server is a pain
[11:03] Gavin.Hird after some fixes to the repository
[11:03] LaNani Sundara: which viewer?
[11:03] Gavin.Hird Kokua OS
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: I think a lot of the same people used to go to the OSGrid meeting, and that is no longer true.
[11:03] LaNani Sundara: ah :)
[11:03] Aquarius Dragon: is kokua usable in opensim still?
[11:04] Gavin.Hird there are some new uploads here
[11:04] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:04] Bill Blight: works, just bento not so much
[11:04] Ubit Umarov: ahhh here is andrew, we all can leave now
[11:04] LaNani Sundara: isnt it missing some mesh support?
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hello Andrew! Now the meeting can start!
[11:04] Aquarius Dragon: prolly not bento enabled im guessing
[11:04] Gavin.Hird there are only about 1000 commits to apply to it to get up to current
[11:04] Aquarius Dragon: oh BIll just said that
[11:05] Dragon Fist: any linux kokua stuffs?
[11:05] LaNani Sundara: good luck Gavin :)
[11:05] Gavin.Hird all the commits for Bento are there ready to be committed
[11:05] Bill Blight: ok now that the arrivals have slowed ... Hello Everyone!
[11:05] Gavin.Hird it all works on the macOS version
[11:05] Gavin.Hird and those commits are not OS specific
[11:05] Dragon Fist: oh ok
[11:05] Gavin.Hird so for bento there is hope
[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks This week I finished the updates I was working on for the OSSL wiki pages. Next step is to start looking at what updates are required for the information about implemented LSL functions.
[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks Nice seeing some new people here. Welcome to the weekly OpenSim developer meeting where we talk about all things related to Open Simulator.
[11:08] Bill Blight: almost did not recognize you Selby
[11:08] Selby.Evans Making NPCs
[11:09] Selby.Evans for story in Nara's place
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: so andrew.. what is the agenda today ?
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks Ubit, Agenda? What is that? ;)
[11:11] JayR.Cela :_)))))))
[11:11] Gavin.Hird :-))
[11:11] Gavin.Hird maybe there is a hidden agenda
[11:12] Bill Blight: there usually is
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: that thing you always try to improvise on this meetings :p
[11:12] Selby.Evans Thales and Infinite Metaverse Alliance (IMA) team up to work together on the next generation collaborative and training tools.
[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks For the new people here, we don't tend to follow a specific agenda. We talk about whatever topics people want to talk about.
[11:12] LaNani Sundara: :)
[11:12] Selby.Evans
[11:12] yui.poyun ok :)
[11:12] LaNani Sundara: this week i won't argue with Ubit :D
[11:13] Bill Blight: bahh
[11:13] LaNani Sundara: hehe
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks :)
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: well the meeting is young.. lets see :)
[11:13] Aquarius Dragon: so is all os Osgrid 0.9 now?
[11:13] LaNani Sundara: all what?
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks The grid itself is 0.9 and the people connecting to it should be using 0.9
[11:13] Aquarius Dragon: 0.9 thingie
[11:14] Aquarius Dragon: what about the probem of stuff being phantom or whatever that issue was?
[11:14] LaNani Sundara: devs here come from other grids too :)
[11:14] Aquarius Dragon: with 0.9
[11:14] JayR.Cela We have been testing OS 0.9.0 on 3rdRock I have a 3 x 3 there with ubODE now
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: what is the news on that? 0.9 is current opensim version
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: even released  :p
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks Aquarius, what phantom problem are you seeing?
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: My next question: If I use the map find in FS to try to HG here with Outreach it works fine, but if I try to go to Bed 3x3 (one of my regions) it says "No Regions found with that name". What did you do to enable that find to work here Bill?
[11:14] LaNani Sundara: 0.9.0 is old news ;)
[11:15] Aquarius Dragon: just heard that with 0.9
[11:15] Aquarius Dragon: there is a problem with not being able to see stuff
[11:15] Aquarius Dragon: goes invisible
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: I'm running 0.9.1 Snail Dev, the latest master. Testing YEngine also.
[11:15] Aquarius Dragon: is it
[11:15] Bill Blight: that was a change firestorm made
[11:15] LaNani Sundara: you may mean the mesh issue that was with the newer Firestorm
[11:15] LaNani Sundara: *nods
[11:15] Bill Blight: had nothing really to do with the server software
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks The biggest problem with 0.9 tends to be the rumours and false information floating around.
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: was not only meshes, was/is other prims also
[11:16] Aquarius Dragon: ah ok
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: But some addresss work and others do not! How does FS sometimes work?
[11:16] LaNani Sundara: o ok
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: some created with fs it self :)
[11:16] LaNani Sundara: i stay on older FS :)
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks Yes, it sounds like an issue related to how mesh objects were uploaded to the grid and which physics engine is in use.
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: well the prims fs did hide should actually be avoided
[11:17] Aquarius Dragon: I been doingmesh uploads or trying to need a better computer lols
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: they are not nice to render engine
[11:17] Bill Blight: yes it attempted to hide, bad mesh that could cause issues, ie, the mesh was broken to start with
[11:17] Aquarius Dragon: yep been learning about that
[11:17] Aquarius Dragon: like double vertices doubles etc etc
[11:17] Aquarius Dragon: people not removing grouping and histories in blender and Maya can be a problem to
[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks Aquarius, are you using the method for uploading mesh as stated in the wiki page on
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: or some prims with hollow so high that inside faces rez outside the outside ones :)
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: etc
[11:18] Aquarius Dragon: no I follwed someones video in youtube hehe
[11:18] Aquarius Dragon: *bows head
[11:18] LaNani Sundara: i use the methode Ubit taught me :D
[11:18] Aquarius Dragon: funny thing is person who did tutorials was that SImona Stick person
[11:18] Aquarius Dragon: who I think owns the cave
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks Aquarius, I hope that was a recent video.
[11:19] Aquarius Dragon: ][_ ([]) ][_
[11:19] Aquarius Dragon: or what was the cave
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: at some point viewers relaxed limit checks on the prim torture allowing bad shapes
[11:19] Aquarius Dragon: I did uplaod my cube I made but couldnt get in the santa hat
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: there was a long fight with hollow with dahlia
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks I'm looking for the URL. Someone else might beat me to finding it.
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: physics does not allow hollow as large as viewes, but of that topology issue
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: dahlia limits are here and to stay :)
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks Aquarius,
[11:21] JayR.Cela @ Andrew has that page been brought up to date recently ?
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: yeah think someone made it unreadable :p
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: the upload page was added after 0.9 came out, it is up-to-date
[11:22] LaNani Sundara: good job updating the wiki :)
[11:22] JayR.Cela thank you :_)
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: Yes! Thank you Andrew!
[11:22] Aquarius Dragon: anyone know good site where i can find 3d free downlaod obj files that have textures and materials already on it?
[11:22] LaNani Sundara: thanks Andrew
[11:23] yui.poyun I have a question about display names
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks JayR, I haven't checked it recently.
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: My experience is there are few GOOD free 3D files, most of them require lots of work to clean them up for here.
[11:23] Aquarius Dragon: noticed that
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Usually easier to make your own in Blender.
[11:23] Aquarius Dragon: ya discovering that
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: you need to find sites that explicity mention SL models
[11:23] Aquarius Dragon: less chances of error
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks meshlab is good for some of the clean up work on mesh objects.
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Or objects that say "game ready", those usually have 100 million fewer vertexes.
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: carefull with sites that tell opensim... meshes are still a confusing issue on opensim universe :)
[11:24] Aquarius Dragon: :O
[11:24] Bill Blight: if you are downloading free files, better to go directly for the .dae files, as that saves a conversion step that could introduce issues
[11:24] Gavin.Hird low poly can often be 100k+
[11:24] Aquarius Dragon: true
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well they are confusing on all universes :)
[11:24] paela argus: 100k in low
[11:24] paela argus: ⊙ oO ⊙
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks Yes, it is, paela.
[11:25] Aquarius Dragon: I sure did come to learn
[11:25] Gavin.Hird has low poly stuff of some quality, but not much free
[11:25] Aquarius Dragon: if you dont go through the tutoirals
[11:25] Aquarius Dragon: you jsut try oimport mesh objects and bring into game
[11:25] Aquarius Dragon: then you don't know the problems you bringing in
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: fs did add nice visualisation tools
[11:25] yui.poyun first of all, I think that most english speakers just don't need display names, because they can write their in latin letters, but it is not the same for, for example, japanese people
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: to check LODS and physics shapes
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: in a easier way
[11:26] Aquarius Dragon: I dont think display names works in opensims
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: well guess ll did add ?
[11:26] Aquarius Dragon: thats for sl only isnt it
[11:26] Aquarius Dragon: firestorm cant upload physics to opensim can it?
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: we do not suport display names
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks Aquarius, Display names are not supported
[11:26] Aquarius Dragon: thought so
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: none of opensim devs like them
[11:26] JayR.Cela Display names only work on Closed Grids / as far as I know yui
[11:26] Aquarius Dragon: I dont' care for it either jsut silly
[11:26] yui.poyun I have partially implemented support for display names, so that they work now on my own grid
[11:27] Bill Blight: you can upload a physics model with your model Aquarius that is what the "from file" means on the physics tab
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks JayR, They would only work in grids that have made custom patches to the grid code.
[11:27] LaNani Sundara: :)
[11:27] yui.poyun yes
[11:27] JayR.Cela @Andrew / correct :_)
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: we don't like it conceptually i mean.. code is just a detail
[11:28] Aquarius Dragon: I will check out that wiki for more info sometime
[11:28] yui.poyun so, I am thinking about how to implement them for hypergrid
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks Whether the grid is not HG enabled or not is not relevant to display name support.
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well display names will be a issue on HG also
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: moving around grids that suport it and not
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: and they are a bad idea :p
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: (imo )
[11:29] yui.poyun so,
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks In SL I see people getting fancy with display names. I have no way of knowing how to even type the names that some people are using.
[11:30] LaNani Sundara: alt codes and unicode characters?
[11:30] yui.poyun is everyone here interested in making display names work over hypergrid?
[11:30] Aquarius Dragon: oh I scared myself tryna save unicdoe feature once
[11:30] Aquarius Dragon: ][_ ([]) ][_
[11:30] Aquarius Dragon: changed my screen i was liek wth I do
[11:30] Bernd.Steinhardt But yui: In SL I yust have seen Av atars with Japanese chacters in the real avatar name
[11:31] Selby.Evans I have no interest in display names,
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks LaNani, True but can you say you know all the codes for the unicode characters someone is using in their display name?
[11:31] LaNani Sundara: no Andrew i do not know them all :D
[11:31] Bernd.Steinhardt Has anybody tries it in OS?
[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks That becomes the problem. If you don't know how to type someones display name, how can you address them when you want to talk with them?
[11:32] LaNani Sundara: thats why we set US culture in some of the code ;)
[11:32] Arielle.Popstar copy paste
[11:32] Bill Blight: there is one grid that tried it, HG gets funky, sending those unicode chars can get funky
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: and on HG we already have issues using just usernames
[11:32] Aquarius Dragon: yah and when peopel get them in email messages it doesnt show right
[11:32] paela argus: limit on basic character :)
[11:33] Aquarius Dragon: liek in group notices with unicode
[11:33] Bernd.Steinhardt That ist the users problem not the grid owners, Andrew ;-)
[11:33] Aquarius Dragon: they open in email and cant read it
[11:33] LaNani Sundara: so how would a Japanese grid deal with this?
[11:33] Aquarius Dragon: they hires more samrty pants to fix it :D
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks Arielle, I haven't tried C&P of a display name. I don't know where to get the copy. AFAIK, it doesn't show in their profile.
[11:34] Bill Blight: Switching to a new charset could effectively cut you off from the HG
[11:34] LaNani Sundara: *nods
[11:34] LaNani Sundara: maybe there is a Japanese HG we cant get to :)
[11:34] Bernd.Steinhardt German "Umlauts" ÄÜÖß are working, as far as I know
[11:35] paela argus: -*- loOl -*-
[11:35] paela argus: éèà
[11:35] LaNani Sundara: those umlauts are just extended ascii
[11:35] Bernd.Steinhardt hi hi
[11:35] Bill Blight: beat me too it
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks Support for unicode can be very useful for people in countries that use alphabets that include characters not in the standard ASCII character set but they become a problem for others to use.
[11:35] LaNani Sundara: sorry Bill :)
[11:35] Bernd.Steinhardt nods
[11:35] Aquarius Dragon: I think sl has ASCII converters to make gesture characters dont they?
[11:35] Aquarius Dragon: can that be used in opensim?
[11:35] Bill Blight: you try to HG to a grid that does not have that charset support and boom, sad panda
[11:36] paela argus: huh
[11:36] yui.poyun so. do you think that unicode support can't be solved for opensim in general?
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: yui dont forget the all system includes viewers also
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( and they actually do the heavy work )
[11:37] yui.poyun yes
[11:38] LaNani Sundara: my icecast stream sends UTF8 song titles i think and the special characters turn into ? in here
[11:38] Bill Blight: they shouldn't any more, with the fix that was put in a while back
[11:38] Bill Blight: UTF8 works fine
[11:38] LaNani Sundara: maybe its my viewer then
[11:39] Bill Blight: ψ
[11:39] paela argus: stream is viewer read only :/
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: Is anyone using multiple instances of Robust to share the load on larger grids? Does that work?
[11:39] yui.poyun the log is fast and I may have missed something, but, as I understand, it doesn't make sence for implementing display names in hypergrid in general...
[11:39] Bill Blight: works, but unless you are large enough , not really needed
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: osg does that for ages
[11:40] paela argus: load balancing that work very well we use it here and in my grid too
[11:40] LaNani Sundara: running different services on different robust instances? or the same services?
[11:40] Gavin.Hird I run textures in one instance and the rest in another. Just a small fish though
[11:40] LaNani Sundara: the first works of course
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: but mb tricky..
[11:40] Bill Blight: yes it works well, needed or not, I know a few places that use NGINX as a load balancing proxy
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: I recall having problems splitting up robust for testing, the different modules all had interdependencies, what can you split off?
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: yeap osg also uses nginx
[11:41] paela argus: ya u have a lots of soft for make a load of balancing
[11:41] Bill Blight: easiest is split logins from assets
[11:41] paela argus: nginx is the nice one
[11:41] LaNani Sundara: profiles, assets, presence?..
[11:41] LaNani Sundara: groups
[11:41] paela argus: not assets
[11:41] Bill Blight: if you use fsassets it can get tricky
[11:41] LaNani Sundara: cant you run assets alone?
[11:41] LaNani Sundara: on a robuts
[11:41] paela argus: assets can run alone but not in load balancing
[11:42] paela argus: for fsassets*
[11:42] Bill Blight: right
[11:42] Bill Blight: for old assets it can
[11:42] LaNani Sundara: ah was answering kay
[11:42] paela argus: yup
[11:42] Arielle.Popstar so cant have multiple asset servers?
[11:42] Bill Blight: but for fsassets it can be problematic
[11:42] LaNani Sundara: Kay asked what you can run separate
[11:43] Bill Blight: you can have the different asset servers assign different hashes to the same assets in fsassets, and that can cause some freaky stuff
[11:43] paela argus: well u can use clustering for assets lanani
[11:43] LaNani Sundara: *nods
[11:43] Bill Blight: rare but can happen
[11:44] paela argus: u can use too nfs etc with storage cloud etc a lots of possiblity e
[11:44] Bill Blight: I know a grid that had successful fsassts load balancing, worked great , till it didn't
[11:45] LaNani Sundara: *coughs OSG?
[11:45] paela argus: osg is cluster
[11:45] Bill Blight: yep
[11:45] Bill Blight: little bit of a difference
[11:45] paela argus: a pain !!
[11:45] Bill Blight: that too
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: How can an asset wind up with different hashes? It should be based solely on the asset data and not involve some other external bit of data in the computation of the hash.
[11:46] Aquarius Dragon: that wiki page sure is helpful
[11:46] paela argus: mirror is the best
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: what wiki page?
[11:46] LaNani Sundara: :)
[11:46] Bill Blight: if the clocks on the split servers are off by a few seconds from each other you can end up with a different hash
[11:47] Bill Blight: very rare
[11:47] paela argus: ya is the bug of osg week before
[11:47] paela argus: ♥‿❤
[11:47] Aquarius Dragon: the how to upload mesh
[11:47] Bill Blight: but seen it happen
[11:47] paela argus: 3µ
[11:47] Aquarius Dragon: so ok if I dont need to talk on it liek a hat
[11:47] Aquarius Dragon: I shoudlnt even apply physics then right?
[11:47] Bill Blight: select lowest
[11:47] Aquarius Dragon: cool fanks
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, when I worked on implementing a version of SRAS as a built-in for OS it used something like an SHA sum to compute the hash. It used just the asset data so it wasn't time dependant.
[11:48] paela argus: ♥‿❤
[11:48] paela argus: sheera osgrid us 5 console inventory presences etc u need nginx apache and proxy
[11:48] paela argus: 3*
[11:48] Bill Blight: but pretty sure it does use the file timestamp as well
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: and you are describing fsassets :)
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: andrew...
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: If you involve time in to the computation of the hash I don't see how you could do duplicate detection.
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: it uses sha256
[11:49] Bill Blight: like I said rare but I saw it happen
[11:50] paela argus: fsassets hash so good he finish to lost assets with no reason :D
[11:50] LaNani Sundara: hmm
[11:50] Bill Blight: but the level of rarity decreases the more assets you push so , just saying, seen it happen, how much it happens is unknown , have not seen it for a long time now, so maybe it was a bug that has since been fixed
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just under 10 minutes until the top of the hour. Does anyone have any other topic for todays meeting?
[11:52] Arielle.Popstar Hypergrid presence
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: personaly only do easy maintnance on fsassets code
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: i prefer to leave dbs issues to dbs ppl as much as possible :)
[11:52] JayR.Cela a new HTTP3 standard is about to be introduced / any thoughts on that ?
[11:52] Arielle.Popstar friends on hypergrid sometimes show sometimes dont
[11:52] paela argus: is a eternal problem that Arielle
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: jay we still don't support 1.1 fully :p
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: even 1.0 ;)
[11:53] JayR.Cela lol / ok :_)
[11:53] Arielle.Popstar i know but maybe it could be looked at?
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: and what for ?
[11:53] Cuga Rajal: Any physics developers here today? some land vehicle motion issues
[11:53] LaNani Sundara: i know Dan clears some "friends"related records every day for that
[11:53] Bernd.Steinhardt Yes, I want to introduce myself, very brief...
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, Ubit works on ubODE.
[11:53] paela argus: we use a script zombie
[11:53] paela argus: for that
[11:53] LaNani Sundara: hi Bernd welcome
[11:54] LaNani Sundara: ok paela but can you explain what is cleared with that script and why?
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome, Bernd.
[11:54] paela argus: lets me look i do not remember
[11:54] Cuga Rajal: ubODE still being developed? coool...
[11:54] Bill Blight: I use ubODE and vehicles all the time
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: andrew you snitch
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar ;)
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar blame Ubit
[11:54] Cuga Rajal: great.. I am using Bullet, lemme switch to ubODE and see if I have same issue.
[11:54] Arielle.Popstar next
[11:54] Cuga Rajal: Will check in next week if problem
[11:54] LaNani Sundara: cos its related to that issue of not seeing people online from another grid
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, This meeting is sometimes attended by misterblue who works on the BulletSim physics engine.
[11:55] Bill Blight: you will have to update your scripts for ubODE Cuga
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: our physics engines always need some love
[11:55] Cuga Rajal: Was hoping to catch MrBlue about that, have talked tohim before
[11:55] Arielle.Popstar MB said the other day he was going to look at some mantised Bullet issues
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ( and proper vehicles physics shapes also help )
[11:55] Bill Blight: i just rezzed a jeep out back Cuga, go take it for a spin after the meeting
[11:56] Cuga Rajal: I will delete the Script Engines directory and let it rebuild
[11:56] Aquarius Dragon: I was learning in blender tutorials as well
[11:56] Bernd.Steinhardt My name is Bernd, I am from Germany and owner aof a small young grid, named MEVOS, Ubit still knows me from an Mantis issue, since I am an software developer I am interestesd to parcipate the OS project, perhaps adding little features or fixing bugs
[11:56] Aquarius Dragon: try nto to script hollow stuff
[11:56] Bill Blight: it is not a ubODE script per-say but one modded to mostly work on ubODE
[11:56] Aquarius Dragon: ok so question
[11:56] LaNani Sundara: wilkommen Bernd :)
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: Thx Bernd.Steinhardt help always welcome :)
[11:56] Aquarius Dragon: someone say using a ubode scripted thingie in bullet physics
[11:57] Aquarius Dragon: can it cause region problems
[11:57] Aquarius Dragon: liek lag and or crashes
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Bernd, Thank you for that information about yourself. The project can always use other people willing to help.
[11:57] Aquarius Dragon: other then it jsut not working right
[11:57] paela argus: e "delete from Presence where RegionID='00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000' and date_add(LastSeen, interval 2 minute) < now()"
-e "delete from Presence where date_add(LastSeen, interval 1 month) < now()"
[11:57] paela argus: etc
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: no Aquarius only very bad prims can cause issues
[11:57] LaNani Sundara: hmm o ty paela... reading
[11:57] Bill Blight: I use a similar script on my grid paela
[11:57] Cuga Rajal: One has to mod a car script thats already working on Bullet to woirk on ubODE?
[11:57] LaNani Sundara: and that fixes the issue?
[11:57] Bill Blight: yes Cuja
[11:57] Aquarius Dragon: ok and say objects are ubode
[11:57] Cuga Rajal: or just recompile?
[11:57] Bill Blight: they are different physics engines
[11:58] paela argus: not really but that help
[11:58] Aquarius Dragon: but region is bullet thats a problem then?
[11:58] Bill Blight: they have different characteristics
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: bullet and ubode are closer than bullet and old ode
[11:58] Bill Blight: yes
[11:58] LaNani Sundara: i will try that on my standalone :)
[11:58] Bill Blight: not hard mods but some are required
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: old ode is something you should really not use now :)
[11:58] Bill Blight: some scripts are closer than others
[11:58] Cuga Rajal: Scripts work same on Bullet and Havok, should work same on ubODE?
[11:58] Bill Blight: bullet scripts don't work right on Havok
[11:58] Bill Blight: LOL
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, that sounds like a topic for a new wiki page (if one doesn't already exist).
[11:59] paela argus: -e "delete from Friends where Friend like ''"
for clear user grid in grid with the bug hg think
[11:59] Cuga Rajal: No, I made one that does
[11:59] LaNani Sundara: i never had an issue on ubODE with "bulletsim" vehicles
[11:59] Bill Blight: I'm picky
[11:59] Bill Blight: so I might notice things that most don't
[11:59] Cuga Rajal: ok thx, I will give a try
[11:59] Arielle.Popstar Shin's vehicle scripts supposed to work on either
[11:59] Aquarius Dragon: oh yah if anyone here ever creates a contest board that allows hypegridders to receive funds on it let me know please hehe
[11:59] Bill Blight: they don't
[11:59] Bill Blight: shin's scripts were made for old ODE
[11:59] Bill Blight: not ubODE
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: There are several different ways to make vehicles move. That can complicate knowing whether a given vehicle script will work unchanged with a given physics engine.
[12:00] Cuga Rajal: I started with Shin and "fixed" lol
[12:00] Cuga Rajal: MrBlue usually here on Tuesdays?
[12:00] Bill Blight: that jeep is a "fixed" shin script
[12:00] Bill Blight: no
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: yes Andrew there proper ways and very wrong ways :p
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, Sometimes MrBlue is here but not always.
[12:00] Arielle.Popstar Think he had newer scripts for ubode/bullet Bill;. Will check my inventory later
[12:00] Bill Blight: Mr. Blue is on a sabbatical right now , he will be back at some point
[12:01] Cuga Rajal: I know how to reach MrBlue if needed
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, there is more than one "right way".
[12:01] Cuga Rajal: Thx
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: both bullet and ubOde did approach SL vehicles model
[12:01] Cuga Rajal: I try to make scripts universal, not dependent on any engine
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: not exactly the same aproach.. but got closer
[12:01] Aquarius Dragon: I guess common sense dictates pick scripting based on whatever region your physics set to
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, you can check to see if he is in the opensim-devel IRC channel.
[12:01] Cuga Rajal: OK
[12:02] Cuga Rajal: Pretty sure my code is universal
[12:02] Bill Blight: you will bet mediocre performance, doing that, go drive my jet skis , those were written with ONLY ubODE in mind
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: by the way ubode is not as sl or bullet on vehicle hover.. setinng height to zero will not stop it
[12:02] Aquarius Dragon: yours were fast
[12:02] Cuga Rajal: Problem has to do with actual motion while using, scripts "run" fine
[12:02] Aquarius Dragon: I remmeber using it
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: only setting its time to > 300
[12:02] Aquarius Dragon: ][_ ([]) ][_
[12:02] Aquarius Dragon: and thats on my computer
[12:02] LaNani Sundara: paela how often does that presence sql script run on OSG?
[12:02] paela argus: maybe spank dan for he make ubode in default for simulators :D
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: ubode does as was defined on old sl vehicle tutorial
[12:02] Arielle.Popstar oh Paela?
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a script for a hot air balloon. I should try it on both BulletSim and ubODE. I know it isn't working properly with BulletSim.
[12:03] Arielle.Popstar was supposed to be Bullet i thought
[12:03] paela argus: every minute
[12:03] LaNani Sundara: o thats a lot
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: ( and ubode will do hover on negative heights for submarines etc )
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm thinking of just modifying the code to make the balloon move using KFM.
[12:03] paela argus: glops looked cron 2 minutes
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: i mean vehicle hover.. not that other
[12:04] Cuga Rajal: Is KFM more server-efficiant than llSetLinkPrivitiveParame()
[12:04] LaNani Sundara: ok thank you paela
[12:04] Cuga Rajal: ?
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I have had trouble with using bouyancy and impulses in making something move.
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: yes Cuja
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: err and Cuga
[12:04] Cuga Rajal: Still server-side though?
[12:04] Bill Blight: Well that's just you Andrew :P
[12:04] Aquarius Dragon: you can learn so much just watchign peopel chat :D
[12:04] Aquarius Dragon: right bestie?
[12:05] paela argus: but for answer make a load balacing is interessing after 100 onlines before not needed
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I didn't write the script. I haven't tested the object in ubODE.
[12:05] Aquarius Dragon: ][_ ([]) ][_
[12:05] Aquarius Dragon: he fell asleep
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: all motions are server side Cuga
[12:05] Cuga Rajal: kk thx
[12:05] Bill Blight: Personal opinion , people get too hung up on the "right way" to script, just make it do what you want, regardless of what the book says
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: except targetomega that is just viewer interpolators and animations of course
[12:06] Arielle.Popstar then get Grid owner on your back because it lags his server :p
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: and flexi prims movements.. also viewer only
[12:06] Aquarius Dragon: he speaking alien now lols
[12:06] Bill Blight: LOL
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Ubit
[12:06] paela argus: Ubit love speak alien
[12:07] Aquarius Dragon: all dese brains are smexy stuff
[12:07] Dragon Fist: yes dats true aquarius
[12:07] Arielle.Popstar not touching that one
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:07] Cuga Rajal: UHave seen that lots of llSetLinkPrivitiveParams() with short timer can make real lag
[12:08] Cuga Rajal: Common way to move air baloon
[12:08] Aquarius Dragon: filll it with fart
[12:08] Aquarius Dragon: itll move really fast
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: ll did introduce kfm bc of that
[12:08] paela argus: whats new with Yengine ?
[12:08] Cuga Rajal: KFM better!
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, the use of short timers can often cause problems. Such a script will typically have a high runtime.
[12:08] Bill Blight: increased speed
[12:08] Cuga Rajal: I Agree Andrew
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: hmm not much or nothing.. had not worked on it recenlty Paela
[12:09] Bill Blight: not always Andrew
[12:09] Bill Blight: depends on what that timer does when it hits
[12:09] Kayaker Magic: I use KFM for lots of moving things, it works OK.
[12:09] Bill Blight: timers themselves don't generate much load regardless of the speed, it is what you put inside the timer that can cause the load
[12:09] paela argus: i think migrate my grid in Y but i need know if is a problem with scripts users hg
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: i think i did had a better kfm in past grrr
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, not always but often. If it is used with certain function calls it will have a high runtime. One bad combination is a short timer used to do some texture changes.
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: lost on merges etc etc
[12:10] Cuga Rajal: Hard to get 2 objects each on theor own KFM to move in sync
[12:10] Arielle.Popstar (Whats KFM?)
[12:10] Leighton.Marjoram Key Frame Motion
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: ( key frame motion )
[12:10] Arielle.Popstar kk
[12:10] Bill Blight: correct Andrew, so it is not the timer, it is the functions in the timer, so not the timer itself that causes the load
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit typed that faster than I did. :)
[12:10] paela argus: and not KFC :)
[12:11] Arielle.Popstar i just had KFC so wondered  :P
[12:11] Leighton.Marjoram yum
[12:11] Kayaker Magic: KFM == llSetKeyframeMotion() call.
[12:11] Cuga Rajal: Need a KFM syncronizer like master - slave
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I've also seen short timers used with AO's and that's not the best way of creating an AO in OpenSim.
[12:12] LaNani Sundara: no i just use the viewer's AO option :)
[12:12] Cuga Rajal: Like drinkin scripts that timer between holding and drinking animations
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: sync is not a easy issue
[12:12] Aquarius Dragon: it always works best when set into viewer never fails to launch
[12:12] Aquarius Dragon: as a hud it fails when hypergridding
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: There are ways to (almost) synchronize objects using KFM. One is for the master to send a message and both master and slave should respond to the message before starting the motion. Not perfect but it helps.
[12:12] LaNani Sundara: getting 2 dancers in sync
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: ahh xmas is arriving.. do not kill you regions with xmas lights :p
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: your...
[12:13] LaNani Sundara: hehe
[12:13] Aquarius Dragon: I kinda figured why you cannot synch dances and scripted objects animations to synch right
[12:13] paela argus: hahahaha ☺
[12:13] Bill Blight: I use the fastest timer you can set in my jet-skis, and they don't overload the sim
[12:13] LaNani Sundara: just use animated textures not timers
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: this time of yr is typilad to see regions lag a lot more
[12:13] Aquarius Dragon: porolly has to do with 2 objects of any sort cant occupy same coordinates same time creates overlap
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: LaNani, I've seen couples dance systems that work well to sync the animations used by each avatar.
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: bad xmas lights can do that easy
[12:13] Kayaker Magic: I have some low-lag Xmas lights I give away this time of year at OSCC.
[12:13] LaNani Sundara: me too Andrew :)
[12:13] Bill Blight: yes , not the script that kills viewer frames, it is the constant updates sent when things change
[12:13] Aquarius Dragon: server would be tryna render both same time and stuff taxing
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, good to mention that. I've seen badly done xmas lights that have been very hard on a region
[12:15] Arielle.Popstar is the dev team going to be working on the OSCC regions?
[12:15] Bill Blight: fast visual updates will hurt the viewer more than the region
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: you need some clever tricks to do same effect
[12:15] Kayaker Magic: Yeah Andrew, that was one llSleep(1.0) for each xmas light, and 100's of them in one region.
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: The core devs don't work on the OSCC regions.
[12:15] Aquarius Dragon: eeeeks
[12:15] Arielle.Popstar they used to
[12:15] LaNani Sundara: this floor is using animated textures
[12:15] Aquarius Dragon: ][_ ([]) ][_
[12:15] Aquarius Dragon: thats the kaneva dance floor isnt it
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: just turning prim parameters will not do it.. :P
[12:15] Aquarius Dragon: so thats not timer based then?
[12:15] LaNani Sundara: just an example
[12:15] paela argus: just look the script in the xmas light :::: default
llSetTextureAnim (ANIM_ON | LOOP, ALL_SIDES, 4, 4, 0, 0, 15.0);
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the script runtime on that dance floor?
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: 1000 prims doing it at same time... outch :)
[12:16] LaNani Sundara: none
[12:16] LaNani Sundara: the stile shave been set once
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, texture animation. That's different.
[12:16] LaNani Sundara: yes
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: yr network bandwidth is just taken by them :)
[12:16] LaNani Sundara: hehe
[12:16] Kayaker Magic: texture animation is viewer side! Zero lag on the server!
[12:16] paela argus: typ
[12:16] Bill Blight: yep
[12:16] LaNani Sundara: exactly
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: yeap use of tex anim is a solution
[12:16] paela argus: yep*
[12:16] LaNani Sundara: so never way to do xmas lights
[12:16] Aquarius Dragon: cool
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: If you try the same thing with a timer and calls to change the prim texture/colour it can go bad very quickly.
[12:17] Aquarius Dragon: we learned somn else
[12:17] LaNani Sundara: nicer*
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: same applies to stages etc
[12:17] Bill Blight: I have some xmas lights that use a sliding colored texture
[12:17] Bill Blight: since they are mesh all the lights are one face
[12:17] LaNani Sundara: :)
[12:17] Kayaker Magic: Me also, but none of those in inventory now... Carefully design mesh UV maps to make lights blink.
[12:18] paela argus: i worn exactly what you speak bill
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen some amazing xmas lights over in a region of SL. I haven't figured out how they made the lights change.
[12:18] Bill Blight: yep those are an example
[12:18] Aquarius Dragon: thats a royal pain im finding
[12:18] Aquarius Dragon: using uv maps to texture with
[12:18] Aquarius Dragon: ][_ ([]) ][_
[12:18] Aquarius Dragon: but im a noob at mesh creatins will get it right hopefully one day
[12:18] Cuga Rajal: Multiple faces on a mesh
[12:19] Cuga Rajal: + texture animation
[12:19] LaNani Sundara: :D
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ahh yes paela stolen lamps from a xmas tree :)
[12:19] Bill Blight: don't texture with UV maps, texture then make the combined UV map in blender ..
[12:19] Bill Blight: on the mesh
[12:19] paela argus: cat have play again with xmas think
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: and a babies thing..
[12:19] LaNani Sundara: yep got entangled again
[12:19] Bill Blight puts out saucer of milk
[12:19] Kayaker Magic: I'll bring my xmas lights next week to share.
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: My cat was wanting attention from me about 20 minutes ago but has given up for now.
[12:19] Bill Blight dumps rum in said saucer
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: hope those lights are not mains powered lanani and paela :)
[12:19] LaNani Sundara: :)
[12:19] Aquarius Dragon: Bill you need to make notecards of hwo to texture right please :D
[12:20] Aquarius Dragon: for mesh in blender
[12:20] Aquarius Dragon: the material part is easy change color and brightness n stuff
[12:20] Bill Blight: I'll share the rum but nobody is getting my single malt
[12:20] Aquarius Dragon: texturing aint that easy I finding
[12:21] Aquarius Dragon: why cant we jsut open image and stick textures to faces?
[12:21] Aquarius Dragon: easier eh
[12:21] LaNani Sundara: not that hard to make a texture with a few colors for animation
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I would like to spend some time learning to texture mesh. I have a guitar I've made which needs textures before I bring it in.
[12:21] Aquarius Dragon: withotu unwrapping
[12:21] Gavin.Hird I am going to remove the PIE menu from the viewer. Any strong feelings about that?
[12:21] Leighton.Marjoram texturing in Blender is a nightmare I just cant seem to get it into my head
[12:21] Aquarius Dragon: then you unwrap
[12:21] Arielle.Popstar ands use what?
[12:21] Kayaker Magic: Remove pie menu? And replace with what?
[12:21] Aquarius Dragon: and youre liek wth is what part
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: i do use all the time
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Aquarius, texturing mesh objects is more compicated unless you are just wanting one texture for the entire object.
[12:21] Gavin.Hird Drop down menus
[12:21] Bill Blight: Maybe it does not want to get into your head leighton, I'd be scared too
[12:21] JayR.Cela @Gaven / YEs removr the Pie Menu PLEASE :_)))))
[12:22] Leighton.Marjoram thanks Bill
[12:22] Arielle.Popstar not for me
[12:22] Aquarius Dragon: silly me tried to texture a dragon
[12:22] Gavin.Hird it simplifies the code a lot
[12:22] Arielle.Popstar dont like the drop downs
[12:22] Leighton.Marjoram One day it will click I hope
[12:22] Gavin.Hird it is a royal pain to maintain
[12:22] Arielle.Popstar they drop below the window
[12:22] Leighton.Marjoram the UI in 2.8 looks a little more easier to work with
[12:22] Gavin.Hird no they don't
[12:22] Kayaker Magic: "Blender, the user interface we love to hate"
[12:22] Arielle.Popstar for me they did in FS
[12:22] Aquarius Dragon: well Blender sure is easier then Maya
[12:23] Leighton.Marjoram nods furiously and hysterically at Kayaker
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Leighton, Texturing in Blender is something I still need to learn.
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: what blender user interface ?
[12:23] Aquarius Dragon: coudltn remeber anythign in Maya
[12:23] Gavin.Hird exactly Ubit
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: The current Blender interface is a lot easier to use than it was in the early days.
[12:23] Gavin.Hird it is at best a collection of good intentions
[12:23] Kayaker Magic: I did a blender class in Kitely once for texturing aimed at texture animation.
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: blender was made by pros for pros use
[12:23] LaNani Sundara: i am still too dumb for Blender
[12:24] paela argus: need take blood presure
[12:24] Aquarius Dragon: funyn seemed easier to me then Maya
[12:24] LaNani Sundara: i never used maya
[12:24] paela argus: i use maya
[12:24] Kayaker Magic: Maya costs money.
[12:24] Ubit Umarov: think it started as a "inhouse" tool only
[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: LaNani, no you aren't. It just takes time to learn. I find it is also a program where you can easily forget what you learned if you don't use it enough.
[12:24] Aquarius Dragon: Maya good for real life skills n stuff
[12:24] LaNani Sundara: i used SketchUp
[12:24] LaNani Sundara: just cant rig in that
[12:24] Aquarius Dragon: but I dont need that I just wanna upload mesh stuff so no bad mesh issues from ripped stuff
[12:25] Bernd.Steinhardt what is Maya?
[12:25] LaNani Sundara: a 3d design tool
[12:25] Kayaker Magic: Maya is Autodek 3D tool.
[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, yes. Blender was originally used by a Dutch company to do things like make commercials. It was inhouse only until after the campaign to Open Source it.
[12:25] paela argus: blender is a opensource of Maya
[12:25] Bernd.Steinhardt thx
[12:25] Aquarius Dragon: you can get 3 year free student license
[12:25] paela argus: if u prefer
[12:25] Aquarius Dragon: Blender is free
[12:25] JayR.Cela mostly for Holl;yWood movies CGA progects
[12:26] Aquarius Dragon: Pixar'
[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Maya is a very expensive program.
[12:26] LaNani Sundara: and to make skirts ;p
[12:26] Aquarius Dragon: werent pixar who created Blender
[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: JayR beat me to the rest of what I was about to type.
[12:26] Bill Blight: and Maya is E.X.P.E.N.S.I.V.E.
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: no Aquarius
[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Aquarius, no, not Pixar.
[12:26] Gavin.Hird Viewer builds will be in
[12:26] paela argus: but i agree the new blender is nice with scene etc
[12:26] Leighton.Marjoram and apparently not as good as it used to be
[12:26] Aquarius Dragon: or pixar uses Blender alot
[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Pixar is associated more with RenderMan.
[12:26] Aquarius Dragon: oh
[12:26] Gavin.Hird check them out pls, and let me know what works and does not work
[12:26] LaNani Sundara: thank you Gavin
[12:27] Aquarius Dragon: what I liek about blender is
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: will it start gavin?
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:27] Leighton.Marjoram I will keep running at it and one day I hope to get passed assigning the materials
[12:27] Aquarius Dragon: when you click a tool mouse has already grabbed it
[12:27] Aquarius Dragon: just move mouse to scale n such
[12:27] Gavin.Hird it does start in my VM
[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, which operating systems are you supporting?
[12:27] LaNani Sundara: but you still are in the process of updating it with 1000 patches, right Gavin?
[12:27] Aquarius Dragon: Maya is alot of clicking right buttons
[12:27] Gavin.Hird running Win 7
[12:27] Arielle.Popstar those are for Mac?
[12:28] Aquarius Dragon: and Blender has materials features which is harder to apply in Maya
[12:28] LaNani Sundara: Gavin, is it written in C++ or C#?
[12:28] Selby.Evans
[12:28] Gavin.Hird those are Windows builds
[12:28] Arielle.Popstar oh ok
[12:28] Cuga Rajal: Blender works well on Mac
[12:28] Bill Blight: No Bento yet
[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't use a Windows build.
[12:28] Bill Blight: for those of you that need it
[12:28] Gavin.Hird Mac version is here
[12:28] Gavin.Hird it will have Bento Bill
[12:28] Arielle.Popstar oh the window ones dont support Bento?
[12:28] Gavin.Hird there are a few hundred commits that needs to be applied
[12:28] Arielle.Popstar kk
[12:29] LaNani Sundara: Gavin, Fu wants to know more about the viewer
[12:29] Fu Barr: LaNani - just IMmed me about the kokua efforts..
[12:29] Fu Barr: Gavin can we friend etc. so I can maybe help out?

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