http://opensimulator.org/index.php?title=Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2017-10-24&feed=atom&action=historyChat log from the meeting on 2017-10-24 - Revision history2024-03-29T07:06:16ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.19.9http://opensimulator.org/index.php?title=Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2017-10-24&diff=45795&oldid=prevSheera Khan at 19:48, 31 October 20172017-10-31T19:48:59Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, not it isn't. I didn't say how long it would take. :)  The raycast thing took a while.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, not it isn't. I didn't say how long it would take. :)  The raycast thing took a while.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: raycasts worked for ages ( on ubOde :p )</pre></div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background: #eee; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: raycasts worked for ages ( on ubOde :p )</pre></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="background: #cfc; color:black; font-size: smaller;"><div><ins style="color: red; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/index.php?title=Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2017-10-24&diff=45623&oldid=prevArielle: Created page with "<pre>[11:10] Arielle Popstar: anyone seen issues? [11:10] Kayaker Magic: Well, I submitted a mantis about that slowdown in list fetches in mono 5.x [11:11] Andrew Hellershan..."2017-10-24T20:41:07Z<p>Created page with "<pre>[11:10] Arielle Popstar: anyone seen issues? [11:10] Kayaker Magic: Well, I submitted a mantis about that slowdown in list fetches in mono 5.x [11:11] Andrew Hellershan..."</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><pre>[11:10] Arielle Popstar: anyone seen issues?<br />
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Well, I submitted a mantis about that slowdown in list fetches in mono 5.x<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, I saw it.<br />
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: List fetches are ~50 times slower than mono 4.2, which is livable compared to the AppDomain problem that slowed fetches down to 1000 times slower!<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: The problem is in mono?<br />
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: Probably.<br />
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: I'm hoping there is something Ubit can do, like change the data type for lists or something.<br />
[11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems something in Mono 5 changed which triggers the slowdown with AppDomainLoading active.<br />
[11:14] Ubit Umarov is online.<br />
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: No, the AppDomainLoading problem is still there. If I set that to true, then I get BOTH slowdowns and fetches are 3000 times slower.<br />
[11:14] Arielle Popstar: what is the current recommended mono version for Opensim?<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder what could have been changed to affect list handling so drastically.<br />
[11:14] OtakuMegane Desu: So two issues that stack<br />
[11:14] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: Hi Ubit<br />
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: Hi<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: brb<br />
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, so I started a new mantis (8251) instead of adding it to the old (and different) one (8127)<br />
[11:15] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi Ubit<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, IIRC, not 4.2 :)<br />
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: the lsl lists thing ?<br />
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Yes, there are apparently two problems.<br />
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Mono 5.x makes list fetches ~50 times slower.<br />
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: If you also set AppDomainLoading=true they stack and you get list fetches 3000 times slower.<br />
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: think we did pass the AppDomain issue.. it can't be use if you want some performance from scripts<br />
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: leaves us with the problem of deleted script resources not being released<br />
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: but appdomains are not a good solution for this case<br />
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: they are 2 heavy on any simple function call<br />
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: now diferent performance on diferent mono versions.. is a diferent issue... and possible harder<br />
[11:20] George Equus: Hi to those I missed while away :)<br />
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: hmm ? you are all so silent..<br />
[11:21] Arielle Popstar pats herr windows server<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I was looking over the two mantis<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I was thinking of some other tests to check the difference in execution times<br />
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: I looked up mono on the opensimulator.org page, it says "mono 5.x seems to work"<br />
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: "mono 4.0 to 4.6 not ok" I certainly noticed that I could not compile opensim on mono 4.2<br />
[11:25] Arielle Popstar: guess a 1000 times slower qualifies as "seems"<br />
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: well on my home i7 i need to increase the look to 100 000 to see meaninful time<br />
[11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: For the most part yes it seems to. Not perfect though.<br />
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: But mono 4.2 seems to run it OK, even though it cannot compile<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, not likely to notice the problem unless you run timing tests.<br />
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: 0.000 009 time with 100 000 loops<br />
[11:26] Kayaker Magic: I only noticed because I have some terraforming scripts that loop for every meter of a region.<br />
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: err<br />
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: 0.000 09 ms<br />
[11:27] Kayaker Magic: ms or seconds?<br />
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: oops s<br />
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: its yr script jsut c&p so guess seconds<br />
[11:27] Kayaker Magic: what's 3 orders of magnitude between friends? :)<br />
[11:27] OtakuMegane Desu: It may not be a huge issue in many cases but it shouldn't be chewing up that much extra time without a good reason.<br />
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: I suppose I could go find the mono bug report page and try to write a report up for them.....<br />
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well a lot slower on the linux VM on mono 5.2<br />
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: 0,0106 S , 100 000 loops<br />
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: hmm i hope im not running with appdomain on it lol<br />
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: screen -r<br />
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: hmm doesn't work here<br />
[11:32] Arielle Popstar: e and you know it<br />
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: AppDomainLoading = false nopes<br />
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: well that vm is on a old Xeon.. and it is a VM<br />
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: BIll coild tell its details<br />
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: ( i know it does not suport AVX.. so older then 2012 )<br />
[11:35] Arielle Popstar: HAi Brian<br />
[11:35] Brian.. @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: hello<br />
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: there is also that odd up/down keys issue.. i have no clue at the moment<br />
[11:35] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: Hi Brian<br />
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: What C# data structure does OpenSim use to implement lists?<br />
[11:35] George Equus: Hi Brian<br />
[11:35] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Brian<br />
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: My standalone has ADL set to false. I'll have to run some tests to see what sort of times I get with lists.<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome, Brian.<br />
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: oops ppl just attached the test scripts to mantis<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: hmm does sound like colsion btw vehicle and attachments<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: ADL ?<br />
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: kay at moment think it uses a array<br />
[11:38] Arielle Popstar: app domain loading<br />
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well adl was a try to release script resources as i said, but it was not done for than on .net... it is a lot heavy<br />
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: it is just a simplicified inter process comunication.. but still a IPC<br />
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: that means tons a extra code on each simple call<br />
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: IPC?<br />
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: ( Inter Process Comunication)<br />
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: ty<br />
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: like word putting things on excel etc..<br />
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: domains where created for a lot simpler cases.. but still IPC<br />
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: so.. we can't really use them on scripts, that do need to have some minimal performance<br />
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: ( and yes that leaves us with the memory and resources leak :( )<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I was looking at the code. From what I can tell lists are handled as an array.<br />
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: it is defined in LSL_Types.cs<br />
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: but if its a compiler issue.. well we are in trouble...<br />
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: r=llList2Float(test,(integer)llFrand(500.0)); no reason for this to be slower<br />
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: hmm or is it the frand ?<br />
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: lets see with a constant index<br />
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: I never measured the time to create the list, only the time to read it.<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: easy to determine that. Just change it to a sequential check of the list elements.<br />
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: r=llList2Float(test,i & 0x1ff); //random fetch same time<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Another test is whether it is a problem with floats or all data types<br />
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: r=llList2Integer(test,i & 0x1ff); same time<br />
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: i originally saw the problem in a mixed list with string and floats.<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well i can't test other versions of mono on that VM<br />
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: just can tell my I7, compiled as release and running in 32B it a lot faster<br />
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: ( and on win7 64b)<br />
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: at least 100x<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: My machine has mono 3.2.8 that I compiled and 5.2 installed via packages.<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I can test it later with both of those versions.<br />
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: odd the numbers do look a lot like ADL false/true no ?<br />
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: hmm ADL was like 100000x no ?<br />
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: No, it is two orders of magnitude less bad than the ADL results.<br />
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: hm and we do use arrays elsewhere on main code... lets hope this is not a larger issue<br />
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: i do expect adding/removing items from lists to be slow<br />
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: not getting them<br />
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: exactly<br />
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: anymore issues?<br />
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: im not beeing very active creating new bugs.. just keep looking to mantis<br />
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: and did mess up the C ( C++) ubOde ODE code<br />
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, I would rather that you did not create bugs! Please work on fixing them instead! :)<br />
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ufff fixing bugs, most time implies add new ones :p<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but you should know how i say somethings by now ;)<br />
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well i do see a few things that can be improved on the unmanaged part of ODE<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I've had a couple reports come my way that I'm looking at to see if they are really bugs or not..<br />
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: so playing with that<br />
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: ( yes my test region is now running a odd version )<br />
[12:01] Ubit Umarov: did also some testing using AVX instruction set... but.. yeack no visible improvements<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Wow. This hour really flew by.<br />
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: ( of course fell free to give any tips/donations to my paypal account )<br />
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: at some point the httptests branch will be merged into master<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other topics for todays meeting?<br />
[12:03] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: just one quick question<br />
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: that will have some issues with some external modules.. ( one money module at least)<br />
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: due to changes on SSL suport<br />
[12:03] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: Is SSL fully implemented<br />
[12:03] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: I am testing it out and not having huge success getting it setup properly<br />
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: i have still a issue with SSL certs control on the several connection types<br />
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: we need diferent rules applied acording to the connection,<br />
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: and .net does not make that any easy<br />
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: adicionallyi do not find some sources of things we use, that needed some change for that<br />
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: (XMLRPC for example)<br />
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: so on SSL part im a bit stuck on that<br />
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: but it does read and uses certs now and we can run a region with SSL enabled<br />
[12:06] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: Ok that is the bit I am trying to get working<br />
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: just as i said, the control of the validations rules is not good<br />
[12:06] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: I was also wondering with Robust and OpenSim running SSL is the chat encrypted<br />
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: Robust is another nightmare<br />
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: what services should use SSL... make that configurable... yeack<br />
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: on regions, if you have a valid cert, enforce its use on all things.. httptests should work now<br />
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: ( i did fix the certs load code etc (<br />
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: was dead since 2009 or something :(<br />
[12:08] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: ok :(<br />
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: well the changes related to that, will make some money modules unhappy<br />
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: bc they do depend on SSL of course<br />
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: and do even patch our code.. something we need to avoid in future<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, again? :) We already got complaints about money modules breaking due to the API change.<br />
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: since it is a maintnance nightmare<br />
[12:10] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: Is there any information about SSL support and how to enable it any where<br />
[12:11] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: I am using Bill BLights version of Opensim osCore2<br />
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: Changed affecting external modules are to be expected.. the surprise was people not understanding that, specially on a major release<br />
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: and at a point where some of those modules do even patch our code, all over<br />
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: impossible to not break things in this case<br />
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[12:12] George Equus: Must run along as well, Interesting to follow discussion as always.<br />
[12:12] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: Bye George<br />
[12:13] George Equus try finding the exit... hmmm<br />
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Just need to make sure the information gets in to the release notes next time.<br />
[12:13] Arielle Popstar: nod<br />
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: and we still need to improve a bit our basic suport for money actions<br />
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: ( not doing any true money code.. that is a opensim NO NO )<br />
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: we will not do code to handle real money.. ( even limited with fake money )<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: np, Kayaker. It took a while to get the cast ray stuff sorted out. This may take a while too but eventually we'll get to the bottom of it.<br />
[12:15] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: I am going to head off too bye for now and see you again next week.<br />
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: a "compilers" diference is not a easy thing<br />
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, not it isn't. I didn't say how long it would take. :) The raycast thing took a while.<br />
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: raycasts worked for ages ( on ubOde :p )</pre></div>Arielle