Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19

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[11:00] Sheera Khan: I know it's none of your bees, but I've got a question regarding Firestorms handling of logins
[11:01] James.AtLLOUD Hello - is this the Opensim dev meeting?
[11:01] Sheera Khan: whenever I log into an OS based grid it tells me it's checking the cache
[11:01] Sheera Khan: it takes 15 secs...
[11:02] Gavin.Hird I have seen that
[11:02] Billy.Bradshaw Yes James
[11:02] Gavin.Hird and I don't understand why
[11:02] Sheera Khan: whether there are 2G of cache or cache is empty - doesn't matter
[11:02] Billy.Bradshaw FS do some local cache check, real pain
[11:02] Sheera Khan: ok, I don't either ..
[11:02] Sheera Khan: that's what I wanted to change ^^
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker now that is annoying in alchemy. wich setting. if you like to cam and click the camera is moving very fast to the point you clicked
[11:03] Billy.Bradshaw I asked FS on there forum and received null reply
[11:03] Gavin.Hird you have to change viewer for that, haha
[11:03] Sheera Khan: in Windows it's a real PITA, under Linux it's a 15 sec delay
[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks Hello, everyone. Hm... is it that time of the week again already? ;)
[11:04] Sheera Khan: yes, the null reply was what get's me to askong Garvin ...
[11:04] Gavin.Hird Maybe it has to do with the ability to use local textures
[11:04] Gavin.Hird but it might be something else
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker hi billy, the profile error is annoying. not sure if alchemy have the problem too. what problem you talk about billy ?
[11:04] Billy.Bradshaw I was trying to trace the viewer crash problem when the source and destination regions used the same location,
[11:04] George Equus: Was just reading a bit on the Alchemy viewer. Look interesting. Anyone here using it by any chance? said to handle Mesh upload better than FS.....
[11:04] Billy.Bradshaw but FS is such a pain
[11:04] Gavin.Hird I tested the latest build briefly
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker well, FS still works nicer then alchemy at some parts. missing the pie menu more then i think
[11:05] Gavin.Hird on 0.9 dev it does a massive map lookup that almost kills the server
[11:05] George Equus: Hate the pie... very clumsy IMHO
[11:05] Sheera Khan: O_o ...
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker only problem FS have is red map tiles on var
[11:06] Gavin.Hird I am sure there is a switch to change to a normal menu
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker not test it with alchemy.
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker Gavin. in alchemy i don't expect it. it's more based on SL viewer
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker i dig other time in the settings
[11:07] Gavin.Hird SL viewer does not have pie menus any more
[11:07] George Equus: Thinking of taking Alchemy for a spin
[11:07] George Equus: no pie menu  :)
[11:08] George Equus: Matter of taste in the end I suppose
[11:08] Gavin.Hird Pie is easy for shallow menus
[11:08] Gavin.Hird but they can be a pain to navigate when they are deep as they run out of space
[11:08] George Equus: uhum
[11:09] Gavin.Hird there was one interesting point in the Alchemy release notes as of today
[11:09] Gavin.Hird let me fetch it
[11:09] Sheera Khan: another question regarding the server development if I may ...
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks Go ahead, Sheera
[11:10] Gavin.Hird Utilize upcoming currency-buy-uri OpenSim sim feature
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker i closed it by accident lol. wanted to read it
[11:10] Sheera Khan: Has the development of 0.9 come to an end?
[11:10] Gavin.Hird this sounds like anew feature
[11:10] Gavin.Hird has anyone heard about it
[11:10] Gavin.Hird I guess it requires Robust support
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker good question, would like to know how far where away from r elease
[11:10] Sheera Khan: A CR safari doesn't seem that critical to me...
[11:11] Sheera Khan: and if a core dev doesn't have any fancier bugs to chase ...
[11:11] Sheera Khan: that looks like it's going to be ready..
[11:11] Sheera Khan: or do I see that wrong?
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker Not sure how far uOde is
[11:12] Gavin.Hird I got the link to the ODE code from Dan and recompiled it for OS X and submitted via Mantis
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: I have a half a dozen show-stopping mantises in 0.9, I don't think it is ready for release
[11:12] Gavin.Hird so now both ODE and ubode runs on OS X for 0.9
[11:13] Gavin.Hird 0.9 is not ready for release IMO
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks The CR safari isn't critical but it is one of those code maintenance things that needs doing occasionally to avoid problems down the line with applying changes to files.
[11:13] Sheera Khan: but the git-logs are sparse to say the least ...
[11:13] Sheera Khan: I agree, but honestly...
[11:14] Billy.Bradshaw Mantis 7879 Avatar walk-up-stairs parameters - remove "f", not supported... Is that changed required with pre 0.9 releases?
[11:14] Sheera Khan: tell me how you want the CRs done and I'll do it ...
[11:14] Sheera Khan: just to save a core dev the task and the time to do more important things
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker what means CR
[11:14] Sheera Khan: Carriage Return
[11:15] James.AtLLOUD flüstert: had the same question @richardus
[11:15] Sheera Khan: the line breaks
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker aha that CR
[11:15] Gavin.Hird I was about to say there is an app for that
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Eureka!
[11:18] Billy.Bradshaw Things we are looking at are all HG related, like avi scripts not starting on arrival to a new grid
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks Line endings should be in the native format for the operating system. When text files are pushed to the repo only the new lines should be saved but some files were saved with CR and LF endings. Not noticable to Windows users but it can become an issue under Linux.
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Anybody here ever gone to the Moses office meeting on Mondays? I've tried twice and nobody else was there.
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks Gavin, yes. Under Linux you can just run dos2unix to fix line endings.
[11:19] Gavin.Hird Windows is the sinner here
[11:19] Sheera Khan: looks like a tr command in linux could solve that ^^
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks Use of tr can do the same thing. It is easier to use dos2unix unless you know the proper use of tr.
[11:20] Sheera Khan: or sed for that matter ^^
[11:21] Gavin.Hird just make an alias similar to this: alias m2u="tr '\015' '\012' "
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks Billy, is there a mantis about that issue?
[11:22] Sheera Khan: @Kayaker, I didn't go to the Moses office
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: won't that alias double the newlines in files with dos CRLF?
[11:22] Billy.Bradshaw I think so, been around quite a while
[11:22] Sheera Khan: I'd use: tr -d '\015'
[11:23] Gavin.Hird I said similar because this is to convert old OS X LF to Unix LF
[11:23] Billy.Bradshaw Anyone use a setting other than the default FlotsamCache.ini ;FileCleanupTimer = 1.0  ;every hour ?
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker i wish i could fix the wrong url on objects. wrong slash and opensim gives error but not smart enough to fix it
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks I'd go with Sheera's suggestion. You want to strip CR from text files in Linux and OS X
[11:24] Gavin.Hird yep
[11:25] Gavin.Hird checking flotsamcache every hour creates a lot of server traffic when it is going on
[11:25] Billy.Bradshaw yes
[11:25] Billy.Bradshaw so do you disable it?
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker why server traffic ? it's local thing
[11:26] Gavin.Hird I have disabled checking and it runs fine without
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker it runs on the simulator
[11:27] Gavin.Hird cache items should just expire and never be checked
[11:27] Billy.Bradshaw For now, I would recomend that all grids that have outside regions connected disable
[11:28] Gavin.Hird unless when fetched as it then needs to check with the server ofr a more recent version
[11:28] Billy.Bradshaw Even internal for that matter
[11:28] Billy.Bradshaw It is broken Gavin
[11:28] Gavin.Hird yes
[11:29] Billy.Bradshaw It attempts to fetch 1200 assets that are not on the asset server :)
[11:30] Billy.Bradshaw If you do not enable flotsamcache ini by removing the .example, a much shorter time period occurs
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks Billy, sounds like you have another problem if attempts are being made to fetch assets which aren't in the assets table.
[11:30] Billy.Bradshaw that is also broken
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker Not using cache , make things only worse
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker Andrew, i have seen asset not found when making OAR to. and that happens for long time
[11:32] Gavin.Hird if it makes it worse or not depends on how good your operating system / mono combo is to keep stuff in memory
[11:32] Gavin.Hird + how much caching the database does
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks Flotsam caching is enabled if AssetCaching is set to FlotsamAssetCache
[11:34] Billy.Bradshaw WE should have more information next week when we have had more time to look into the issue
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks Richardus, I've seen it too. I hope it is only an possible issue with old assets.
[11:36] Gavin.Hird Since I moved to Postgres I have never had once a asset table record corrupted. With MySQL it happened - not necessarily often, but it happened
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks Gavin, I have one of your Postgres patches in my source tree. There is another I'm looking at that changes a SQL query (#7805) that I'm looking at before applying it. A couple of the others I would like other eyes on as there was a lot of comments in the report.
[11:37] Gavin.Hird # 7805 is good to go
[11:37] Gavin.Hird it works
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks You didn't capitalize the keywords in the SQL query as was done before. :)
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks Not a big deal. Just makes queries easier to read.
[11:38] Gavin.Hird all that should be unified
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks nods
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker postgres. brr. i think not a good manager tool for it to. completely different. and already got enough bad experiences with mariadb in the past
[11:39] Gavin.Hird Postgres is rock bottom solid
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks Richardus, there is phppgadmin
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker i hope the timestamp error i have seen get washed out too
[11:39] Gavin.Hird and well maintained
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks I like phpmyadmin but never tried the PG version. So now you have two tools you can take out for a test drive.
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker does postgres have workbench gui to manage users and databases etc. ?
[11:40] Gavin.Hird
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker phpadmin not option here. need to much software to run that
[11:41] Gavin.Hird or have Navicat
[11:41] Gavin.Hird even on your iPad
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker Need to be windows. if you not know
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks Richardus, ok. I always have a webserver running with PHP support so using the php??admin tool is not an issue for me.
[11:42] Gavin.Hird pagadmin runs on Win, Linux, OS X
[11:42] Gavin.Hird Navicat does the same
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker i see. looks complex :O
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker need to look on that a bit later
[11:43] Gavin.Hird best installers are here
[11:44] Gavin.Hird or use your distro installers for Linux if above does not work
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker uhh ? not this one ?
[11:44] Gavin.Hird that would work too, but the EDB installer is the most complete
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker ok lol then your link comes
[11:45] Billy.Bradshaw Andrew, during HG travels we see 'Unable to fetch profile data at this time' and appears to be is V1 profile related, any thoughts?
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker robust support postgres to now ?
[11:45] Gavin.Hird sure does
[11:45] Sheera Khan: Could it be made to be ignored in the viewers maybe?
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker Yes Billy, that one need to get fixed
[11:45] Sheera Khan: Like so many other messages?
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker in FS your notification widget get spammed
[11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks Billy, by V1 profile you are referring to the add on OpenSimProfile module?
[11:46] Sheera Khan: fortunately there's a close all button ;-)
[11:47] Billy.Bradshaw yes Andrew, I did not know the official title
[11:47] Gavin.Hird it is something a version 3 viewer does when on a grid with OpenSimProfile
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks ok. I rarely travel by HG. I can have a look at the code. I'm not sure what might cause the problem.
[11:48] Sheera Khan: would it be possible to have a checkbox "Ignore this message in the future"?
[11:48] Billy.Bradshaw User experience for HG travellers can be a bit crappy, trying to do something about it
[11:48] Gavin.Hird it happens every time you transfer from an "out of the box" opensim to OSGrid
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks Sheera, that would be up to the viewer devs to add the option.
[11:49] Gavin.Hird with a version 3 viewer
[11:49] Gavin.Hird not Singularity
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker It did happen also to other place
[11:50] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim Dev ed9d4fe: 2016-04-05 22:53:27 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:50] Gavin.Hird many of the older grids run OpenSimProfile
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker i think also that the opensim.ini need to be set default to V2. it's now a bit confusing for people. still trial and error to get groups running
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker uhmm, and not good reading :P
[11:50] Gavin.Hird maybe even newer ones as the wiki is rather confusing on that
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker especially one line.. let me look
[11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks Richardus, which version of groups are you finding is trial and error to setup? I've used the phpxmlrpc based groups and its easy to do. I haven't tried using core groups.
[11:52] Gavin.Hird core groups is a bit confusing to set up
[11:52] Gavin.Hird there is one line that ban list must be enabled via a php script
[11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks hm... I thought the comments were fairly clear about that. It usually indicates what option to use for V2.
[11:53] Gavin.Hird a script that is nowhere to be found (as I know of)
[11:53] Billy.Bradshaw OpenSimProfile and phpxmlrpc groups require a web server ?
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker somewhere here i made a mistake "for V2 Groups, HG, both standalone and gridded sim, use "Groups HG Service Connector""
[11:53] Andrew.Hellershanks Billy, yes
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker or it where this part , why not set the example default to this ?  ;; or ${Const|BaseURL}:${Const|PrivatePort} for robust, V2
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker oh wait that is not for standalone.
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker Mabye it would be better to have groups in seperate ini. and just have more inis for different simulator setups ?
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, what do you have as the setting for Module in [Groups]?
[11:55] Gavin.Hird maybe an OpenSim.ini tailored for a typical standlone configuration and another for a typical grid configuration?
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker Andrew, it's working on my offline grid now. it's not the first time i did it. it's not the first time it got wrong too
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker i mean, busy to get a new server.
[11:57] Billy.Bradshaw I have been commissioning V2 groups using SQLite as a way into the workings of OpenSim, cannot say the setup is that ambiguous
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if you can suggest improvements to the comments to make it easier to understand, or can suggest a page for the wiki on setting up core groups, please pass along the ideas.
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker Does V2 groups work with postgres and mysql connector ?
[11:57] Gavin.Hird works with postgres
[11:58] Gavin.Hird I suppose it has been properly tested with MySQL
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker Ok. i did download it and need to test it local
[11:58] Billy.Bradshaw Rich just SQLite groups V2 missing
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: It should work with either.
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker i think there's a reason for that.
[12:00] Billy.Bradshaw re SQLite, Diva said she did not have the time and would leave it for someone else
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything else before we go our separate ways until next time?
[12:01] Gavin.Hird It would be good to get a status on 0.9
[12:01] Gavin.Hird what remains to be fixed
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I'll see what I can find out.
[12:02] Gavin.Hird that would be fantastic!
[12:02] James.Atlloud Also, I'd like to know how I could help out with development.
[12:02] Sheera.Khan and maybe there's a way to "outsource" the details of i.e. CR-safaris ...
[12:03] Gavin.Hird I hope we are not stalled waiting for avination's viewer project
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: James, Join the opensim development IRC channel, download the code from git, look at the mantis bug reports.
[12:03] James.Atlloud OK, I watch the Mantis, but haven't checked the IRC channel.
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, no big deal do do that. Just do a find and in each directory just run dos2unix or tr -d to ensure the files have the right line ending.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: The only other thought is checking that certain files containing text are being treated as text.
[12:04] Sheera.Khan it's done by now... but maybe next time ...
[12:05] Sheera.Khan Sourcecode is text too
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: If git has been told what files contain text and which ones don't it shouldn't happen again.

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