Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21

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[10:55]  Alicia.Raven yep, im getting it again, starting to get annoying
[10:55]  Aine.Caoimhe yes
[10:55]  Richardus.Raymaker throw it on the pile of bugs behind me :O
[10:55]  Basil Sosides: relog
[10:55]  Basil Sosides: wait
[10:56]  Aine.Caoimhe even more so in that you have to close each on e individually at some point....they persist through a relog
[10:56]  Jak Daniels is Online
[10:56]  Shez Oyen: I am pulling up profiles ok.
[10:57]  Aine.Caoimhe it's fun when the counter for it hits "99+"....then you get to spend 5-10 minutes clearing them later
[10:57]  Aine.Caoimhe yes, you can view profiles just fine
[10:57]  Shez Oyen: but I didn't HG in.. I logged on
[10:57]  BlueWall Slade: the php "openprofiles" and the core profiles are not compatible.
[10:57]  BlueWall Slade: so you are HG and have core profiles on your grid.
[10:58]  Aine.Caoimhe but every single time an agent enters the region (including rez of an NPC) there's a floater message that says "unable to fetch profile data at this time"
[10:58]  BlueWall Slade: here runs openprofiles.
[10:58]  Aine.Caoimhe right
[10:58]  BlueWall Slade: I'm guessing that would be in the openprofiles.
[10:58]  Aine.Caoimhe no idea
[10:58]  BlueWall Slade: afaik, those have not been updated even for the module loding changesd.
[10:59]  Aine.Caoimhe all I know is any time I come to OSG I get spammed with vast numbers of those messageszx
[10:59]  BlueWall Slade: run openprofiles on your grid.
[10:59]  Aine.Caoimhe no
[10:59]  BlueWall Slade: lol
[10:59]  Richardus.Raymaker hi bluerwall
[10:59]  Alicia.Raven os grid should run core profiles, not some old out of date php lol
[10:59]  BlueWall Slade: RiRa, I fund where the non-standard avatars start bouncing
[10:59]  Shez Oyen: I turned those off.. I was getting them too made it hard to pay attention
[10:59]  Aine.Caoimhe either fix core profiles or fix openprofiles
[10:59]  Aine.Caoimhe or fix both
[11:00]  BlueWall Slade: Alica, they need jsut a bit more work - secure them fro Hg travel
[11:00]  BlueWall Slade: Well, openprofiles should follow cored developments.
[11:00]  Richardus.Raymaker yes i have read that bluewall, nice. i made mantis for offlineIM in the hope others see something wrong. i get the feeling it's not implemented. it sofar i know never worked.
[11:00]  Andrew Hellershanks is Online
[11:00]  BlueWall Slade: It was discussed by some core devs to expire them at one point.
[11:01]  Richardus.Raymaker also not have local offlineIM string top compare
[11:01]  BlueWall Slade: but, I need to push some time aside to polish them.
[11:01]  Richardus.Raymaker you dont want to run openprofiles. just because it cannot work on remote webserver without risking your database
[11:01]  Alicia.Raven richardus, i use v2 im and any messages from outside get stored and delivered ok, it must be implemented
[11:02]  Richardus.Raymaker hi andrew
[11:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Richardus.
[11:02]  BlueWall Slade: I will test the messages, but I think they are working ok for me.
[11:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, everyone
[11:02]  Alicia.Raven hi andrew
[11:02]  Richardus.Raymaker Then i want to know whats wrong alicia. buecause i dotn see the error. and i made the whoel ini now new style
[11:02]  Shez Oyen: Hi Andrew :)
[11:02]  BlueWall Slade: I will look at your mantis and see if there is something I need to do to trigger it.
[11:02]  Aine.Caoimhe I only seem to get stored messages if the person leaving the message is in our grid at the time they send it
[11:03]  Bob.Wellman Hi everyone
[11:03]  Richardus.Raymaker well, then it's not working aine
[11:03]  BlueWall Slade: Hi
[11:03]  Richardus.Raymaker hi bob
[11:03]  Aine.Caoimhe I haven't done extensive testing on it though
[11:03]  Alicia.Raven hi bob
[11:03]  Richardus.Raymaker i can send it from other grid. it get stored. but never send to avatar
[11:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: Talking about sending IM's between grids?
[11:04]  Alicia.Raven yep
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker i think andrew did lots with the offline php code. , what im misisng is compareable string for normal offline IM
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker yes andrew
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker
[11:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: Have you checked how the avatar ID gets saved in the offline IM table?
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker offlineIM
[11:04]  BlueWall Slade: Ohh, Ok. ATM My only running grid is non-HG
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker you can see the string in the mantis andrew
[11:04]  Aine.Caoimhe unfortunately it's the HG stuff that's borked
[11:04]  BlueWall Slade: I should have my Hg one up in a couple of days again. then I can test
[11:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, what is the mantis #?
[11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker
[11:05]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia
[11:05]  Dahlia.Trimble hi
[11:05]  Aine.Caoimhe anything in-gird seems to be working fine (on our grid anyway)
[11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker hi dahlia
[11:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: ty
[11:05]  Shez Oyen: Hi Dahlia :)
[11:05]  Alicia.Raven hi dahlia
[11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker Aine correct, in grid works. but HG is weird
[11:05]  Aine.Caoimhe add it to the list of HG-related bugs I logged 25 months ago that are still open
[11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker where to add ?
[11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: I can't test any grid code atm as my main computer is still down.
[11:07]  Richardus.Raymaker does it ever get alive again andrew. how can you work this way :O
[11:07]  Aine.Caoimhe or I guess
[11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus,by forcing myself to use a Windows laptop. :P
[11:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:08]  Aine.Caoimhe though the IM issue isn't restricted to just friends
[11:08]  Richardus.Raymaker thats not bad. :P
[11:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: Its not Linux
[11:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: AFAICT from that mantis report the UUID is ok. I was thinking it would have shown as UUID@gridname and that was failing as you don't need the @gridname part for local delivery
[11:09]  BlueWall Slade: I added a "Hypergrid" tag to the mantis.
[11:09]  Richardus.Raymaker That did bluewall told me too andrew. but now i have setup the grid again and correct this is the result. i dont see anything wrong myself.
[11:09]  Alicia.Raven thats a good idea, as there are alot of hg bugs right now
[11:10]  Richardus.Raymaker ok
[11:10]  Robert Adams is Online
[11:10]  Aine.Caoimhe what I really would like to know is if any attention is likely to be paid to the issue of a single latent viewer being able to kill a region....I've had that happen 4 or 5 times in the last week alone
[11:10]  BlueWall Slade: sometimes the Hg messages say the other user is offline when they are not.
[11:10]  BlueWall Slade: :)
[11:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: It would be worth knowing if it attempts to deliver the message or not.
[11:10]  BlueWall Slade: So, yeah, there is some work to be done ther.
[11:10]  Dahlia.Trimble hi Robert
[11:10]  Richardus.Raymaker What i need and wish, more debug messages optional for messaging. not found it
[11:11]  Shez Oyen: There you are Robert.. I was getting ready to send a search party
[11:11]  Richardus.Raymaker hi robert
[11:11]  Aine.Caoimhe a full set of data was sent to Justin 4+ weeks ago by Seth using his request for logging
[11:11]  BlueWall Slade: Hello Robert.
[11:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: If you send an IM and it is getting saved to the DB, is the message still in the DB table after the recipient has logged in and received any other offline IMs?
[11:11]  Robert Adams: hello all
[11:11]  Bob.Wellman is Online
[11:11]  Shez Oyen: :)
[11:11]  Alicia.Raven hi robert
[11:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: hey, Robert
[11:11]  Richardus.Raymaker Andrew. i can send messages. the all get stored in the database. and never leave
[11:11]  Richardus.Raymaker the normal offlineIM's i cannot find
[11:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok. If the offline IM's never get removed from the DB table the offline IM code isn't finding a match against the local avatar UUID
[11:12]  Richardus.Raymaker Thats what i think. but thats somewhere in teh opensim V2 coee
[11:13]  Richardus.Raymaker ok, not think. biut it's doing soemthing wrong
[11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: This is with built-in offline IM code?
[11:13]  Richardus.Raymaker offlineIM V2
[11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I've not used or tested the built-in stuff.
[11:13]  Richardus.Raymaker with the php code i used in the past i think it works fine. but not want to run a webserver
[11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:14]  BlueWall Slade: could the remote sim be sending some small change in the format of what is registered in the database to cause it to fail?
[11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: Do you get locally sent and received IM's?
[11:14]  BlueWall Slade: << the remote id of the friend.
[11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker if somebody add more debug code options we can check
[11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: s/IM's/offline IM's/
[11:15]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:15]  Robert Adams would like it if the IM code needs to be broken out cleanly into a module and then replaced with a better backend implementation
[11:15]  Richardus.Raymaker howto see that part of the mnessage ? i tried it from metro and from OS it fails both
[11:15]  Aine.Caoimhe any IM sent from the local grid is correctly delivered
[11:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: BlueWall, it would be hoped the console might report an error in that case.
[11:15]  Robert Adams: but that's just wishing
[11:15]  BlueWall Slade: yes ++
[11:16]  Richardus.Raymaker seperate module would not be bad
[11:16]  Aine.Caoimhe I would assume that the target of the IM isn't being stored correctly when the IM is put into the DB
[11:16]  BlueWall Slade: Hey Robert, could you take a peek at ?
[11:16]  Aine.Caoimhe so when the avi logs in, there's no match found for it when that table is searched for any undelivered messages
[11:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: If offline IM's work when sent locally it is possible that the code is checking the sending avatar exists in the grid and that check fails so the message never gets sent to the recipient? (I'm just guessing on that)
[11:17]  Aine.Caoimhe could be
[11:17]  BlueWall Slade: I am just thnking - but could the simulator names have any bearing on it?
[11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: Would be easy enough to check by adding a debug message that goes to console when that situation is seen
[11:17]  Aine.Caoimhe of maybe it's being stored using name instead of UUID of the intended recipient in which case the HG target name is different than the local target nbame
[11:18]  Alicia.Raven richardus, what db do u use, mysql?
[11:18]  Richardus.Raymaker Andrew, good one thinked about it. but why would it do that ?
[11:18]  BlueWall Slade: I have been really busy and my grid is in the process of being moved to another server.
[11:18]  Richardus.Raymaker mysql
[11:19]  BlueWall Slade: When I get it running, I will try to set some time aside to at least look at it and add some debugging.
[11:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: That info in the mantis seems to indicate the the from name doesn't include the @gridname so you wouldn't know where the message originated.
[11:19]  Robert Adams: I think I'm going to 'fix' the large varregion-edit-lag problem by not sending the whole region's parcel data... see if that helps
[11:20]  Dahlia.Trimble just send the surrounding area?
[11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, Didn't Mel indicate it might break something re: showing parcel ownership via the coloured areas?
[11:20]  BlueWall Slade: Could a viewer make changes to alleviate that issue?
[11:20]  Robert Adams: it currently sends the whole regions's info..... If I only send the 256 area around that should be sufficient for the view update
[11:21]  Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:21]  BlueWall Slade: if you have lots of parcels it sends more data?
[11:21]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[11:21]  Robert Adams: BLuewall: no... it sends a byte array with one byte for each 4mx4m area
[11:22]  BlueWall Slade: ohhh, ok.
[11:22]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I can find a non-HG offline IM for comparison after the meeting is over.
[11:22]  Richardus.Raymaker Ok
[11:23]  Dahlia.Trimble or just send it for the area that maps for the traditional 256x256 area the avatar would be in if it were not a varregion?
[11:23]  Jak Daniels: it has to send one byte for effectively 1 bit of data per 4x4?
[11:23]  BlueWall Slade: I like the var regions
[11:23]  Basil Sosides: i run a 5 to 5 VAR on a Homeserver(1.2 Mbit up), runs good, no prolems
[11:23]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[11:23]  BlueWall Slade: I run several 768x768 ones and they are good.
[11:24]  Richardus.Raymaker i run 4 3x3 regions. sofar it's fine
[11:24]  Shez Oyen: mine are 3x3 but there are 4 of those together.. everything is aces
[11:24]  Robert Adams: the parcel info byte includes 'for sale', 'can enter', ...
[11:24]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:24]  Richardus.Raymaker ok 768x768 x 4
[11:24]  Dahlia.Trimble I run 2x2 and 3x3 and I couldnt repliacate the problem
[11:24]  Jak Daniels: ah ok, tnx Robert
[11:24]  Richardus.Raymaker but less data is always good
[11:25]  BlueWall Slade: so, I think we have recommended 3x3 or 4x4 as the preferred size.
[11:25]  BlueWall Slade: so these havind issues are 10x10 or such?
[11:25]  Robert Adams: the only problem I see is ,if you cam way out, you won't see parcel boundries in the distance, but I don't think that's a big problem
[11:25]  Richardus.Raymaker next one is i think 4x4 but thast because i need 128 meters water around it
[11:25]  BlueWall Slade: ++
[11:25]  Basil Sosides: true Robert !
[11:25]  Robert Adams: varregions are limited to 8kx8k
[11:25]  Richardus.Raymaker or more mabey i need 5x5 but not more
[11:26]  Jak Daniels: will the viewer cache those 256 areas it has been sent parcel data for?
[11:26]  BlueWall Slade: The viewer doesn't get neighbor regions parcel info in normal regions?
[11:26]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[11:27]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:27]  Robert Adams: the parcel data is cached by the vieweer.... but there is no update management so OS just sends the whole region info
[11:27]  Basil Sosides: 5 to 5 is at the Border to bad, cause max Drawdistance is 1024m
[11:27]  Andrew Hellershanks: 8kx8k? That would be a 32x32 var. Way larger than is practical unless the regions are empty
[11:27]  Richardus.Raymaker lol 1024DD is killing ever framerate
[11:27]  Jak Daniels: ok, because I do sometime pan out to see the parcels in a varregion :)
[11:27]  Robert Adams: for a 256x256 region, the parcel info is 4K bytes.... for a 4kx4k region, the parcel info is > 1MB
[11:27]  Richardus.Raymaker yiks
[11:28]  BlueWall Slade: Freaky Tech sent some patches that caches data in the sim and I think only sends changed parts.
[11:28]  mattie mcbride is Offline
[11:28]  BlueWall Slade: Did you see that one?
[11:28]  Robert Adams: and sending that everytime you right click or make any prim edit update slows things down :)
[11:28]  Richardus.Raymaker what happend with neb & justn ?
[11:28]  Richardus.Raymaker Does it need to send that every time ? or can there be add some filter ?
[11:29]  Robert Adams: Ithink that cache patch was added already.... I'll check again, though
[11:29]  Dahlia.Trimble justin has been busy on something else for the last several weeks. No idea about neb
[11:29]  BlueWall Slade: I think the FT code dealt with just terrain patches.
[11:29]  Richardus.Raymaker ok.
[11:29]  OtakuMegane Desu: Even with the larger data size in var regions bandwidth isn't really the issue with this aside from very large vars. Something in the process of generating the info to send, or the send process itself, is being laggy. I dunno how much is involved but I wouldn't think it a particularily intense function.
[11:31]  mattie mcbride is Online
[11:31]  Alicia.Raven is anyone else having problems with hg visitors showing as unknown user?
[11:32]  Shez Oyen: Not here
[11:32]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[11:32]  Shez Oyen: but I haven
[11:32]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm seldom in an HG enabled grid.
[11:32]  Dahlia.Trimble nope
[11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker not seen it
[11:32]  Jak Daniels: not today, but I have seen it
[11:32]  BlueWall Slade: I had some npc showing up as that when a var region was within distance of the region
[11:32]  Alicia.Raven well the name i keep getting is Unknown UserUMMAU42
[11:32]  Dahlia.Trimble clearing cache often fixes the unknown user thing
[11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker think cache clear is only solution for that
[11:32]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:32]  Alicia.Raven which was added recently to code
[11:33]  BlueWall Slade: I had a 3x3 region with a 256m void
[11:33]  Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'd try cache clear as first step
[11:33]  BlueWall Slade: and I would see unknown on the npc.
[11:33]  BlueWall Slade: when I moved the var region away it cleared up.
[11:33]  Andrew Hellershanks: It is also possible(?) you could need to clear instance cache
[11:33]  Andrew Hellershanks: or is it Robust. Not sure where that user info gets stored grid side.
[11:34]  Alicia.Raven i seen alot of people on google+ talking about the same thing, they just dont bother to post to mantis
[11:34]  BlueWall Slade: the region caches user info
[11:34]  BlueWall Slade: there are a coupl of commands to clear it
[11:34]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[11:34]  Andrew Hellershanks: The topic has come up in the past. I thought it was fixed but perhaps not for HG users??
[11:34]  Alicia.Raven do u know where it keeps the cache?
[11:34]  Robert Adams: maybe the region should be more aggressive about clearing its user info cache
[11:35]  Alicia.Raven
[11:35]  Robert Adams: there is a bunch of logic that tries to keep from DDOSing other regions with user presence requests
[11:35]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:35]  Dahlia.Trimble does the region even cacne user info?
[11:35]  Robert Adams: that code is complex and does make mistakes
[11:35]  Richardus.Raymaker does it ever clear automatic ?
[11:36]  Dahlia.Trimble Im not sure it caches it
[11:36]  Alicia.Raven it seems strange to me that this has started to happen about the same time as the Unknown UserUMMAU42 name was added to the code
[11:36]  Dahlia.Trimble I know viewers have problems with unknown users even in SL
[11:37]  Robert Adams: the 'Unknown User' problem has been around for a while and many changes have been made
[11:37]  BlueWall Slade: hmmm, I can't find the command that clears it now.
[11:37]  Robert Adams: the funny "U42" addition was to tell the difference between new bugs/instances and stuff that was left over in old caches
[11:37]  Dahlia.Trimble as far as I know most user info is in ScenePresence
[11:37]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[11:37]  Alicia.Raven that name is set in the UserManagementModule.cs
[11:38]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:38]  Alicia.Raven before requesting user account data from the user service
[11:39]  Robert Adams: the "Unknown User" name should never be seen... it is used when the real name isn't available.... which should never happen
[11:39]  Robert Adams: but it does.... why, hasn't been found
[11:40]  Robert Adams: Justin fixed a bunch of race conditions related to HG
[11:40]  Dahlia.Trimble I thought I heard it was related to display names
[11:40]  Robert Adams: but there must be something still left
[11:40]  Alicia.Raven i will add some debug code and see if i can find more info, it only happens with hg users tho
[11:40]  BlueWall Slade: it seems to have surfaced again when the partial display names support was added?
[11:40]  MP4 Player v1.0 ( You are not the owner of this screen!!
[11:41]  MP4 Player  v1.0 ( You are not the owner of this screen!!
[11:41]  Robert Adams: there was also some fiddling with display names (setting and not setting between regions of different versions and different user options)... but I think that is different
[11:41]  Robert Adams: anything is possible, BlueWall
[11:42]  BlueWall Slade: the show names command might list them?
[11:42]  Aine.Caoimhe @Alicia it also happens with NPCs
[11:42]  Alicia.Raven on the console the names show ok, just the viewer
[11:42]  BlueWall Slade: ok
[11:43]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[11:43]  Aine.Caoimhe my default home location is a region with about 6 NPCs in it...about 1 in 5 logins they'll all be unknown
[11:43]  Robert Adams: that speaks of a race condition, Alicia
[11:43]  BlueWall Slade: Haha, I cannot find the commands I added to clear that cache :s
[11:43]  Alicia.Raven we have some npcs in the main sim but they always show fine
[11:43]  Aine.Caoimhe and it's an all-or-nothing thing....either they're all named or all unknown
[11:44]  paulie Flomar is Online
[11:44]  Aine.Caoimhe also happens when I HG to Close Encounter every Friday....about a 50:50 chance that the 2 NPC bartenders there will show as unknown
[11:44]  Grande broome is Online
[11:44]  Alicia.Raven so the cache is saved? not just reset if the sim is restarted?
[11:45]  Aine.Caoimhe cache depends on the settings of flotsamcache.ini
[11:45]  Alicia.Raven i thought that was only asset cache?
[11:45]  Aine.Caoimhe if you're doing file caching with it set never to expire, it never expires
[11:45]  ladyjo martin is Online
[11:45]  Robert Adams: it probably means the name is sent to the viewer early in the avatar setup.... the real name gets set in the simulator but the viewer has the (bad) name and never asks again
[11:46]  BlueWall Slade: reset user cache
[11:46]  BlueWall Slade: that should clear it.
[11:46]  Aine.Caoimhe well, people are generally not all that excited about having to constantly clear their caches
[11:47]  BlueWall Slade: had they rather restart their regions?
[11:47]  BlueWall Slade: reset user cache
[11:47]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim Dev        d96d31b: 2015-04-12 19:32:06 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[11:47]  Aine.Caoimhe they're rather the bug didn't exist ;)
[11:47]  BlueWall Slade: I think it is collecting names from objects, etc. too
[11:47]  Robert Adams: not sure what cache you're talking about.... there are lots of caches.... clearning content cache won't update the user name (other than requiring you to relogin)
[11:48]  BlueWall Slade: user management module
[11:48]  Alicia.Raven flotsam is only assets right?
[11:48]  BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:48]  Alicia.Raven reset user cache isnt working
[11:48]  BlueWall Slade: I don't see it in the console help
[11:48]  BlueWall Slade: maybe it was reverted somewhere along the way.
[11:49]  Robert Adams: the viewer must build a UUID->name table separate from user data and asset data... makes it quick to display names in object properties, etc
[11:49]  Robert Adams: I don't know how that table is filled
[11:49]  Richardus.Raymaker Ha, now i have the unable to fetch profile data
[11:50]  BlueWall Slade: OpenSim/Region/CoreModules/Framework/UserManagement/UserManagementModule.cs
[11:51]  Alicia.Raven i had assumed the user cache was only in memory and would be wiped when the server restarts
[11:51]  BlueWall Slade: It does, but there are objects, etc. with user names.
[11:51]  Alicia.Raven appears to be a dictionary in the user management module
[11:52]  BlueWall Slade: I think that all the names in the objects, etc. go there on startup.
[11:52]  Alicia.Raven line 477 is where that name is set, and that was only added last month by a patch from FT
[11:53]  Alicia.Raven which is when the problem started, approximatly... i think lol
[11:53]  Robert Adams: you said the console command shows the correct name.... if true, the table in OS is filled correctly.... but the same table in the viewer is not getting filled correctly
[11:53]  Aine.Caoimhe or the viewer looks for it too early
[11:53]  BlueWall Slade: maybe an object has the bad name?
[11:53]  Aine.Caoimhe then when it *does* get the data it never updates it
[11:53]  Robert Adams: or gets sent it too early
[11:54]  Aine.Caoimhe which will also happen with animations and attachments
[11:54]  Aine.Caoimhe and sometimes textuews
[11:54]  Alicia.Raven but how could that make it show every hg user as unknown
[11:54]  Grande broome is Offline
[11:54]  Aine.Caoimhe the viewer definitely gets the data for those because on relog it loads instantly
[11:54]  Alicia.Raven that would just cause issues for one i think
[11:54]  Aine.Caoimhe so it's being pulled from the viewer cache
[11:55]  Aine.Caoimhe but for whatever reason on that initial send the viewer doesn't update the scene to incorporate that new data
[11:55]  Alicia.Raven i cleared all the viewer caches, manual delete, as thats the only way to clear them fully
[11:55]  Robert Adams: likely the handshake with the viewer (to display the new avatar) is happening in parallel with the handshake that is creating the avatar
[11:56]  Aine.Caoimhe the problem with that, Alicia, is it lead s to constant repeat of the same problem
[11:56]  Aine.Caoimhe since the data then has to be resent in its entirety again
[11:56]  Aine.Caoimhe = more likely not to arrive in time to make it into the scene
[11:56]  Robert Adams: and the name of the avatar is sent to the viewer before the creation handshake is complete
[11:56]  BlueWall Slade: If the problem is a bad name, then find and remove the object with the bad name - if that is what the root cause is?
[11:57]  Alicia.Raven aine, after clearing cache it has time to reload, before another hg user comes maybe hours later and is again unknown
[11:57]  Alicia.Raven one bad name could cause all hg users to be unknown?
[11:57]  Robert Adams: I have to run.... take care all
[11:57]  BlueWall Slade: Thanks Robert.
[11:57]  Bob.Wellman Bye Robert
[11:57]  Alicia.Raven bye robert
[11:58]  Robert Adams is Offline
[11:58]  Sarah Kline: Hi Kote2
[11:58]  Aine.Caoimhe bye Robert
[11:58]  BlueWall Slade: Nope - but when the sim is restarted, only names of persisted objects should be there.
[11:58]  BlueWall Slade: It is just a memory cache.
[11:58]  BlueWall Slade: chat lag.
[11:58]  Dahlia.Trimble have to go, bye all :)
[11:58]  Alicia.Raven bye dahlia
[11:59]  BlueWall Slade: Bye Dahlia
[11:59]  Bob.Wellman Bye Dahlia
[11:59]  Shez Oyen: I guess Ill go update everything BB y'all
[11:59]  BlueWall Slade: bye Shez
[11:59]  Richardus.Raymaker bye dahlia
[11:59]  Sarah Kline: aww i just got here
[11:59]  Alicia.Raven i will try a few other things, maybe add more debug printout and see
[11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: ah, yes. It is about that time of the day
[11:59]  Alicia.Raven bye shez
[12:00]  paulie Flomar is Offline
[12:00]  Aine.Caoimhe I need to scoot, too....have a good week everyone
[12:00]  BlueWall Slade: I gues those commands got wiped out :s
[12:00]  Alicia.Raven bye aine
[12:00]  BlueWall Slade: they weren't really for htat purpose, but it would allow the user management cache to be cleared.
[12:01]  BlueWall Slade: bye Aine
[12:01]  Alicia.Raven if the cache is volatile, then clear cache wouldnt help as it persists across restarts
[12:01]  Nebadon Izumi is Online
[12:01]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..
[12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: hey guys sorry I missed meeting today
[12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, nebadon
[12:01]  BlueWall Slade: it doesn't persist - not the visitors.
[12:01]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..
[12:02]  Alicia.Raven hey nebadon
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: what I miss :)
[12:02]  BlueWall Slade: Hey Nebadon
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: can anyone post up the chat log to the wiki?
[12:02]  BlueWall Slade: hmm, IM v2
[12:02]  Richardus.Raymaker hi neb. wrong timezone ?
[12:02]  BlueWall Slade: I will
[12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: no I was out I just got home
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