Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-11

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[2014/11/11 11:12]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Online
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[2014/11/11 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: whatever that is
 
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]

Latest revision as of 14:40, 25 October 2015

[2014/11/11 11:12]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Online
[2014/11/11 11:12]  Connected
[2014/11/11 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: whatever that is
[2014/11/11 11:12]  Teleport completed from https://2013_opensim_com/region/Keynote%201/251/250/23
[2014/11/11 11:12]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/11/11 11:12]  Connected
[2014/11/11 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: not something i was familiar with
[2014/11/11 11:13]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we probably should do mumble/murmur instead of falling into that trap
[2014/11/11 11:13]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Mata Hari: I saw one commit earlier today with script pin mentioned
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: well hifidetliy is open source
[2014/11/11 11:13]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the script pin issue I think
[2014/11/11 11:13]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohhh, ok
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: but we still have the problem of how to integrate it into the viewer
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: without breaking vivox
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: not an easy problem to solve
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: script pin is the code that is checked for updating a script inside a prim, sounds like a blank pin number was being accepted from those commits
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: also maybe i misunderstood philip
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Mata Hari: hi Justin
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Marcus Llewellyn: Heya jcc :)
[2014/11/11 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey will get distracted as certain tasks unblock
[2014/11/11 11:13]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if it can be integrated, then we could write off Vivox?
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Andress.Renault @66.240.219.135:9610: Hey Justin
[2014/11/11 11:14]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Jcc
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: yes, that was the issue
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: but he made it sound like they could only get 100 connection per ec2 instance
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: very shortly will post the releases
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi justin
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: he didnt say what level
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: but that still sounds pretty weak to me
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Marcus Llewellyn: If we are willing to break SL copatibility, we could write off Vivox.
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Jak Daniels: does mumble/murmur need a new slvoice.exe?
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: fix is also in ghosts and master branches, as well as in post fixes branches
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: yes Jak
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, make sure you first have a good viewer
[2014/11/11 11:14]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: There is supposed to be a project for that now
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Mata Hari will do new build when you say "go"
[2014/11/11 11:14]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not sure where it stands
[2014/11/11 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: what are you using?
[2014/11/11 11:15]  Mata Hari: master
[2014/11/11 11:15]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: preffer to have a smooth flying first, terrain still choppy for me with 0.8 and i think object movement have the same problem.
[2014/11/11 11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: I suggest you build and update as soon as possible if you have any public people accessing your stuff
[2014/11/11 11:15]  Mata Hari: will do
[2014/11/11 11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: or rather, if they may be an untrusted source of scripts
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Mata Hari: I'm pretty careful about locking down script perms
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: justin, does the problem effect all scripted objects or just ones setup to use pin access?
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Marcus Llewellyn: Have there been reports of actual exploits?
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: it does strike me though that this is an issue even outside of this stuff
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Mata Hari: I work too much with OSSL function so I know how nasty they can be :p
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: no
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: the problem is the default pin is 0
[2014/11/11 11:16]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, if someone has ossl functions in a script but no persm to run them, and then they give that script to somebody who does have perms....
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: feeling quite uneasy about that
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Mata Hari nods
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: particularly with the super severe threat ones, like consoel commands
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Mata Hari: I limit most OSSL to ESTATE_OWNER
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Mata Hari: and as estate owner I *try* to vet any script that someone gives me before I give it a chance to run
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi
[2014/11/11 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: so it's the fact that prims never set up for the pin allow access
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia
[2014/11/11 11:18]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i never would allow ossl top others. its bad idea except maby a single command
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: that's a very good idea
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Marcus Llewellyn: All it takes is one, "Hey, can you help me with this script," query. You dunno what you're gonne get.
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the risk is if they get you to run an ossl command
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: though only a few are super bad, like console commands
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Mata Hari: yeps
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: that might be the only one, and that is both severe and requires god mode to run
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: but still...
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Mata Hari: that one terrifies me....I normally leave it set to false
[2014/11/11 11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, very wise
[2014/11/11 11:19]  Mata Hari: if I need to run a console commnand I can stop being lazy and type the damn thing in myself :p
[2014/11/11 11:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have most ossl functions disabled except for select ones that are allowed.
[2014/11/11 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: most would be inconvenient if used maliciously but not capable of deleting data, I believe
[2014/11/11 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: or running arbitrary code
[2014/11/11 11:19]  Mata Hari: one would hope...
[2014/11/11 11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: defeinitely not arbitrary code - just console commands are the danger there
[2014/11/11 11:20]  Marcus Llewellyn watches Dahlia's Stevie Wonder impression. :)
[2014/11/11 11:20]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oops :)
[2014/11/11 11:20]  Mata Hari: hehe
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Mata Hari: any surprises you encountered on the weekend, Justin? (during the conference)
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, I was really pleased by how well things ran
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Andress.Renault @66.240.219.135:9610 nods in agreement
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: those hg attachment issues were the only real pain, afaik
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: need to look at that
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: sound in the videos was horrible
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Mata Hari nods
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: before merging stuff back to master
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: that was outside of our control dahlia
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, other tech parts like streaming and skype were a nightmare
[2014/11/11 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: skype and ustream were acting up
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Mata Hari: and it seemed that some of the HG groups stuff might have been wonky too
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: most of the weekend the sound was good
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: but there were a few sessions especially on dev track
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: where the sound was really bad
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: on saturday
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: especially that russian guy
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Mata Hari: yes...found it funny that business track sound was perfect but dev track was pretty bad :p
[2014/11/11 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think i caught that one
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: was the first one
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: As track lead I was listening on Skype so didn't experience much of the media audio
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i was running around like crazy during first track
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think i heard more than a few minutes of any of them
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Marcus Llewellyn: Dev track may have been having upstream bandwidth issues with streams. I really don't know though.
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Mata Hari: it's probably all your tps that disrupted things :p
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: ive been watching some of the recordings though
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: It did seem an issue with bw to dave
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Andrew Hellershanks: How long before the recorded tracks will be available online?
[2014/11/11 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't hear the probelms he was getting from skype
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to say
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Marcus Llewellyn: All business track videos are currently available on UStream.
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: he has FIOS i think
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, so in theory should be fine... :)
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: can't remember if he was verizon or comcast?
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Mata Hari: is there a link to them from the conference website?
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: should probably make sure that whoever makes the stream has a reasonably good connection
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: verizon
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Marcus Llewellyn: Verizon I think.
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: skype has gotten progressively worse
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Mata Hari looked for one but couldn't see any
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup. and a good pc so you get more then 6fps
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: we use it alot for conference calls
[2014/11/11 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: and its been pretty flakey lately
[2014/11/11 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: always one or two people have trouble
[2014/11/11 11:25]  Marcus Llewellyn: UPstream with consumer ISPs is always tricky. It's the red headed step child of quality... it can be very spikey and undependable.
[2014/11/11 11:25]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: skype audio is p2p
[2014/11/11 11:25]  Marcus Llewellyn: I have myself 20% upstream elbow room.
[2014/11/11 11:25]  Marcus Llewellyn: gave*
[2014/11/11 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: I hear it's less p2p nowadays
[2014/11/11 11:25]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya prolly so NSA can snoop :P
[2014/11/11 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: I think the most impressive feat of the conference was that there were almost no gas cloud avatars
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: missing attachments, but no clouds
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Mata Hari: I didn't see a single cloud
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: even at the peak of phillips keynote
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that was pretty amazing
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: i think i saw maybe 1
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: how many people were at the keynotes?
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Mata Hari: and no physics issues or banding except once
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Marcus Llewellyn: There we HUD attachment issues for some people, like presenters or streamers. We had to reattach them when entering a new region. As far as I can tell, the changed event wasn't setting the CHANGED_TELEPORT or CHANGED_REGION flags.
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: yea I think we kind of knew that would happen
[2014/11/11 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: peak was 159 at philips, I think 139 at oculus guy
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Mata Hari: there is some odd behaviour on that too
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: or rather 139 at dev panel, I think in 120's for oculus guy
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Mata Hari: the attach event fires wrong
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: i suspect grid wide concurency was a bit higher at both events
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Mata Hari: (I reported that in Mantis)
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: ppl on stream too
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: we will have better #'s soon
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Mata Hari: the detach doesn't actually happen until you next attach it
[2014/11/11 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: we havent had time yet to pour over the data
[2014/11/11 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: over 500 people registered
[2014/11/11 11:29]  Mata Hari: then it triggers attach twice, rapidly
[2014/11/11 11:29]  Marcus Llewellyn: Thanks, Mata. :) So much going on, and we dealt with it, so I waited to bring it up until after conference.
[2014/11/11 11:29]  Mata Hari: and if that is handled asynch, your detach can happen after the attach
[2014/11/11 11:29]  Mata Hari: which defeats the purporse
[2014/11/11 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: there does need to be improvment there I think
[2014/11/11 11:29]  Mata Hari: in SL detach is supposed to happen when you unwear it
[2014/11/11 11:30]  Mata Hari: which allows the script to be nice and close listeners, etc
[2014/11/11 11:30]  Mata Hari: but even with a completely empty region I couldn't get that to happen in my testing....the detach never happens until you wear the item again
[2014/11/11 11:31]  Mata Hari: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7345
[2014/11/11 11:31]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: why close listeners on detatch? you would have to re-open them on attach again
[2014/11/11 11:32]  Mata Hari: kk...example:
[2014/11/11 11:32]  Mata Hari: I have mesh clothing that opens listeners for a retexturingi hud
[2014/11/11 11:32]  Mata Hari: say I cycle through 10 different outfits without re-wearing the same item
[2014/11/11 11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Och,
[2014/11/11 11:32]  Mata Hari: I now have all those listeners open
[2014/11/11 11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ouch. thats bad
[2014/11/11 11:33]  Mata Hari: so maybe 6 items x 10 outfit changes = 60 opens listeners = ugly as hell
[2014/11/11 11:33]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: sounds like it should reuse listeners as well
[2014/11/11 11:33]  Mata Hari: in SL those all close when I change
[2014/11/11 11:33]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: you mean you have 60 outfits rezzed?
[2014/11/11 11:34]  Mata Hari: 1 "outfit" can be easily 6 items
[2014/11/11 11:34]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: if the script is not rezzed its not listening
[2014/11/11 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: 11:35
[2014/11/11 11:35]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it would be a pretty nasty bug if the scrpt kept listening after it derezzed
[2014/11/11 11:35]  Mata Hari: so it's being stopped when you remove it but just not processing the attach event?
[2014/11/11 11:35]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: if you delete/remove/delete the script it should no longer be listening
[2014/11/11 11:36]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: if it is, its a bug
[2014/11/11 11:36]  Mata Hari: kk...I will do a test to make sure on that
[2014/11/11 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i wonder could that be a result of using a single app domain?
[2014/11/11 11:36]  Mata Hari: you're probably right though...would be a nightmare on delete otherwise
[2014/11/11 11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, I expect race conditions
[2014/11/11 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ok
[2014/11/11 11:37]  Mata Hari: I only brought it up because the same cause of that could be related to the change event not correctly working for CHANGED_REGION
[2014/11/11 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: things can get worse under load
[2014/11/11 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: for instance, attachment events are distributed always with a new threadpool thread atm
[2014/11/11 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: if there is threadpool starvation for any reason then the response there would get slow
[2014/11/11 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: or just too many threads trying to progress at once
[2014/11/11 11:39]  Mata Hari: the world needs more threads :p
[2014/11/11 11:39]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: well in SL it should stop listening when detatched. There may be an oversignt in the code in opensim
[2014/11/11 11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I for one welcome our massively parallel processing overlords.
[2014/11/11 11:39]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sounds logic if you stop listning
[2014/11/11 11:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, :D
[2014/11/11 11:40]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the script should be deactivated, which should mean stopping timers, sensors, listens, etc
[2014/11/11 11:40]  Mata Hari: it's too bad the osMessageAttachment is high threat or I'd use it more
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Mata Hari: (still not sure why it has the threat level it does)
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Marcus Llewellyn feels the same way about the OSSL notecard functions. :(
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: code says it's moderate
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Mata Hari: kk
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think a lot of the treat levels are way off
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: issue with ossl notecards is it could start to fill up the db
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: as all this stuff is immutable...
[2014/11/11 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: would take quite some time though
[2014/11/11 11:42]  Mata Hari: well...default on most sims for public use (if enabled at all) is VeryLow so stil won't work in most places
[2014/11/11 11:42]  Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, I understand why they have the level they have (except osReadNotecard), but still make me sad.
[2014/11/11 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: running other people's untrusted code on your machine is a scary thing
[2014/11/11 11:42]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think a mutable notecard asset type would be awesome... they could update in other's inventiry when changed :)
[2014/11/11 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah. A workaround would be to use the json store stuff but very few ppl are familiar with that
[2014/11/11 11:43]  Mata Hari: some of them I completely undestand...others I guess I'm just not evil enough to think of a good way to abuse them :p
[2014/11/11 11:43]  Marcus Llewellyn: Of course, you can't count on *any* OSSL function being enabled on a foreign region, so you're sorta damned no matter what. Heh.
[2014/11/11 11:43]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: even more useful for script config notecards
[2014/11/11 11:43]  Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Dahlia
[2014/11/11 11:43]  Andrew Hellershanks: Knowing if it was safe to update someone elses NC could be a nightmare.
[2014/11/11 11:43]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: then use the normal notecard :P
[2014/11/11 11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: No mod NC's that are linked back to a master NC would be interesting to have.
[2014/11/11 11:45]  Marcus Llewellyn: What would be better is some system for where each user could have data persistance outside of assets. Say, Each user has so many kilobytes they get for storing settings for their stuff or whatever.
[2014/11/11 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
[2014/11/11 11:45]  Mata Hari: I do that a bit via the LSL http functions and a home server
[2014/11/11 11:45]  Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't there a similar problem with scripts if you start modifying them where new asset records are created?
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: in principle one could have functions that allow data storage in the avatar table or similar
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I did something similar in SL, I had "networked" vendors that would email the server asking for the config notecard UUID so I only had to change in on the server prim
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe a region module add on?
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes, hence interest in a different kind of asset
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, and that's a popular solution. But it also highlights a LSL deficiency, imo.
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: though how easily that could fit into the sl model I don't know
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: so its only available in that region
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: you can store arbitrayr data in json stores
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Andrew Hellershanks: Would it really have to be a different asset or better handling of existing ones?
[2014/11/11 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: which in principle should be serializable to a prim's dynamic attributes
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think json stores are only for a region tho arent they?
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I think Mic did have that working - haven't looked at that area lately though
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: notecards are grid wide
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Mata Hari: what I would really love to be able to do is have a "master copy" of a script and then be able to put a copy of it into many different items and have them auto-update themselves if I change the master script
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: If I created a script, own the script, and modify the script it doesn't need to keep saving new copies to the DB
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: true
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Marcus Llewellyn: Materials uses JSON storage, don't it? If so, I sure hope it's working. Hehe
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: Mata, that would be useful
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Mata Hari: haven't figured out any way to do that though
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I think some external server is almost the best solution to try and avoid increasing complexity in opensim itself
[2014/11/11 11:47]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no materials uses assets now, and I dont care for it doing so
[2014/11/11 11:48]  Marcus Llewellyn: Ah, kk
[2014/11/11 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, still need to revisit that
[2014/11/11 11:48]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it used to use dynamic properties
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont have much luck with materials
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: assets need a spring clean function for removing the orphaned ones, i have some ideas on how it could be done that i plan on adding to mantis to get some feedback
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: never seems to survive a region restart for me
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: yeah, discussion on that is good
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Mata Hari: I use materals all the time
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey goes to attend to other unblocked business
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Marcus Llewellyn: They do for me, but they can be tempermental. I've never systematically tried to figure out it's quirks.
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Mata Hari: wish I could set them via script as in LS but such is life
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: neb, materials dont survive a restart?
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Mata Hari: mine do
[2014/11/11 11:49]  Marcus Llewellyn: Mine too.
[2014/11/11 11:50]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they should
[2014/11/11 11:50]  Marcus Llewellyn: I have run into viewer quirks where they don't apply correctly at first.
[2014/11/11 11:50]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I had it working on restarts, hypergrid inventory giving, the whole 9 yards
[2014/11/11 11:50]  Mata Hari: I use them extensively and the only issue I get is when editing a linkset if can sometimes apply a single link's mat to every prim in the set
[2014/11/11 11:51]  Mata Hari: so it's safer to unlink it all, do them one at a time, then reassemble
[2014/11/11 11:51]  Mata Hari: but I haven't had any issues with persistence
[2014/11/11 11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: Release updates are now up -> http://opensimulator.org/pipermail/opensim-users/2014-November/013967.html
[2014/11/11 11:52]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think part of the problem was aurora didnt have dynamic attributes so they changed it to assets when they ported it over
[2014/11/11 11:53]  Mata Hari: @Justin: the commit already in master is the change?
[2014/11/11 11:54]  Marcus Llewellyn: I think he said current master is covered.
[2014/11/11 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: yes
[2014/11/11 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: all branches are now updated
[2014/11/11 11:54]  Mata Hari: kk..ty
[2014/11/11 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, anything younger than 2 years...
[2014/11/11 11:55]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you have assets cleaner now ?
[2014/11/11 11:56]  Marcus Llewellyn: COnferencey question... where will the OARs be available? I wanna get my hands on the one for track presentations.
[2014/11/11 11:56]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: me too
[2014/11/11 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think Neb has gone to sleep :)
[2014/11/11 11:58]  Marcus Llewellyn: We broke the Neb :)
[2014/11/11 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: so nice not to have to rush through code changes this week for a load test, even if I ended up having to do something else instead
[2014/11/11 11:58]  Jak Daniels: I think the presenter system needs to be updated before the oars go viral, something about access keys?
[2014/11/11 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: now hopefully I can take a bit of time to relax
[2014/11/11 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: sorry
[2014/11/11 11:59]  Marcus Llewellyn: Please do! :)
[2014/11/11 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: was on another screen for a moemnt
[2014/11/11 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ya materials have given me trouble, they seem to work
[2014/11/11 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: then i notice days or weeks later that the materials are gone
[2014/11/11 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: so i assumed restarts were killing them
[2014/11/11 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll test some more try to figure out why
[2014/11/11 12:00]  Marcus Llewellyn: I was wondering where the conference OARs would be online. This is a "where" not a "when" question... I'm in no hurry. :)
[2014/11/11 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: soon i want to make oars of everything soon, however
[2014/11/11 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: we do need to sanitize them a bit
[2014/11/11 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: make them a bit more generic
[2014/11/11 12:01]  Marcus Llewellyn: Will there be links on the conference site?
[2014/11/11 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: I beleive so
[2014/11/11 12:01]  Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, thanks. :)
[2014/11/11 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: we will call for a meeting soon
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: you can attend, we will discuss a lot of this
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Marcus Llewellyn: OKie dokie
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: some of the couches on stage may need their sit positions adjusted. Some presenters were sitting far back with their legs in the couch.
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: thats a LOD thing
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: this seems almost to be viewer releated
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah......
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: there is a setting you can adjust
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: to prevent that
[2014/11/11 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, because I've seen things perfectly fine but then seen other people'#s snapshots with such leg issues
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: RenderAvatarLODFactor
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: in debug settings
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: YAY LOAD TEST TIME!!! :D
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Marcus Llewellyn: lol
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: During the first keynote some avatars were ok but the ones towards the left weren't
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: ngggfff
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: and not to the same degree.
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I was going to joke about load test time!
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi loads his head onto a pillow
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, hehe
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: OMG justin fainted
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Marcus Llewellyn: heehee
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: god, so many weeks of hairy last minute changes...
[2014/11/11 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: I was so pleased the whoel thing didn't fall over in the conf itself
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya it was so worth all of the hard work though
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: it really did pay off big
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Marcus Llewellyn: I know some people hate me for sayin' this, but would be nice if we could do load tests periodically through the year.
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: yea we might have more testing now here
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, You won't have to do that again for almost a full year. :)
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: but for now we need a bit of a break
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: anybiody can, but I'm not going to be paying so much attentino :)_
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: attention even
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: the grid will remain up
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: if anyone is interested in doing testing here
[2014/11/11 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: just let me know
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: my next priority is to get ghosts merged into master
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya periodic tests would be good to make sure all the fixes dont go stale
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: but need to take a bit of a break first
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 18 warnings for opensim 0.8.03 in windows :)
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: When do the exibit booths have to be down?
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: if anyone wants to schedule a test or something, just give me a shout
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: never seen it without,..
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: they really don't Kayaker
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: it will remain up as long as I can keep it up
[2014/11/11 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: last year it never shut down
[2014/11/11 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: it was up for the whole year until we started rebuilding this year
[2014/11/11 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: it might go down for a few days for a operating system backup
[2014/11/11 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: but not soon
[2014/11/11 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: operating system upgrade i mean*
[2014/11/11 12:06]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: isnt this server a few years old now? may not hurt to replace some disks and do PM stuff on it?
[2014/11/11 12:06]  Marcus Llewellyn: Just outta curiosity, which distro is it using?
[2014/11/11 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: that would be wildly expensive
[2014/11/11 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: the hard drives in this server probably cost about 1500$
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: would be more expensive if a failure happened
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: ouch
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: running hdd's can run long.
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ya, i have good backups
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: it would be better to just replace the whole server eventually
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hopefully not RAID backups :P
[2014/11/11 12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: haha no
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Speaking of RAID, how is OSGrig doing?
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: it is raid but i have off server backups
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: its not that large
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: the whole database dump is about 24gb
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: OSGrid*
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: "small" db
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: I dont have any more news
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: Id have to check with hiro
[2014/11/11 12:09]  Marcus Llewellyn: The OSGrid forums have the latest scoop.
[2014/11/11 12:10]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: No update there since Oct 15
[2014/11/11 12:10]  Mata Hari wasn't all that impressed with Hiro's "if you don't want IRC 24/7 for news then you aren't making an effort"....OSG has Twitter, a "News" page, etc and nothing has been said in any of those for ~4 weeks
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to log out. I have some documentation to write.
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: there was some IRC conversation yesterday with new info
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Mata Hari: *don't watch
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Marcus Llewellyn: Allen Kerensky posted the latest into from IRC into the forums, and it's was justa day or two ago. I don't have a link handy.
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: I honestly havent had time to keep up with any of that over the past couple of weeks
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: my grid I set up has the server paid up for 8 months, I hope that's long enough :/
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm going to get going as well
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: im sure we will hear more soon
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: Need to make sure I have space to deal with anything if I've fucked up
[2014/11/11 12:11]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye justin
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks guys, same time next week :)
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: yup.
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Marcus Llewellyn: B'bye. :)
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Mata Hari: get some rest, Justin...you've earned it
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Jak Daniels: thanks guys
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: c ya
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, justin. Enjoy your reset
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Mata Hari: you too Neb
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Stiofain MacTomais: bye
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'll dig out the old meeting logs and post when I get a chance, haven't done that for a few weeks
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Justin, take care
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye jcc
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks everyone
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: i have to finish expanding one of my big city models today
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: rest even
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll be on irc if anyone needs me
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: and restart the blog
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey waves
[2014/11/11 12:12]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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