Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-16

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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]

Latest revision as of 14:36, 25 October 2015

[2014/09/16 11:02]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/16 11:02]  Connected
[2014/09/16 11:02]  Region found!
[2014/09/16 11:03]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/16 11:03]  Connected
[2014/09/16 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: justin will be here in a moment
[2014/09/16 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: we were trying to do something drastic this week for load test
[2014/09/16 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: and unfortunately at last moment it all fell apart
[2014/09/16 11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: give me a tp please
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: IO
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: dome
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: seems that soemtimes happens at the worst times! :)
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm standing on this damn done
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you seems to like that place ther ejustion ?
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: test
[2014/09/16 11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hehe
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: test
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: test
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Hi Justin
[2014/09/16 11:05]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hi Justin
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: is this thing deliberately constructed so there's no way in or out?
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: heh yea
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: there are teleporters
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it's the Hotel California of OSCC
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: those pillar things
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[2014/09/16 11:06]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000 sends Justin some e-wine
[2014/09/16 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Andrew
[2014/09/16 11:08]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hello. I remembered the password for the grid I use to get here. :)
[2014/09/16 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: so busy week lots of working going on for OSCC
[2014/09/16 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: one of the volunteers made an awesome camera hud for OSCC stream team this year
[2014/09/16 11:09]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol.. we'll try this again. :)
[2014/09/16 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: buttons with different camera positions
[2014/09/16 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: registrations are also open now
[2014/09/16 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: so if you havent registered yet and want to please do
[2014/09/16 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec let me get a link
[2014/09/16 11:10]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online
[2014/09/16 11:10]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: do OS developers need to pay ?
[2014/09/16 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2014/register-today/
[2014/09/16 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: no body has to pay
[2014/09/16 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: but ya please do register
[2014/09/16 11:11]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: there is a free ticket available as well
[2014/09/16 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: there are only 400 tickets available
[2014/09/16 11:11]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ? I thought the site indicated fees unless you had a promo code
[2014/09/16 11:12]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wich day and time is it
[2014/09/16 11:12]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I was wondering about it - if 400 paid are registered, then unpaid get bumped?
[2014/09/16 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: thats if you want to donate
[2014/09/16 11:12]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Offline
[2014/09/16 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: last one at bottom is free
[2014/09/16 11:12]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i gues sthere's a stream to
[2014/09/16 11:12]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online
[2014/09/16 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: no we have a certain amount of tickets alloted for both
[2014/09/16 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: no one will get bumped in the first 400 registrations
[2014/09/16 11:13]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok.That isn'tthe registration page I saw previously
[2014/09/16 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: and its likely if all of the donators/sponsors dont take their tickets there might be last minute openings
[2014/09/16 11:13]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: nebadon, the email informing folk of this meetings relocation, and the load test afterwards, contains links that do not work when copy and paste into map search. Need to insert a colon.
[2014/09/16 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: so if anything only sponsors would actually get bumped
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: oh, there is another link to click on to register. :)
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm oh darn did i typo
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: let me look
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: those should work
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Billym, told bluewall already the http dont work. remove the http and add : to get it working in map
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: you have to copy the region name too
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 Staff Zone 1
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: thats the format i used to get here
[2014/09/16 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: this fail in map search
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: what viewer?
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: this woreks cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Staff Zone 1
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Note that the spaces mess up all sorts of auto link formatting....
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: it shouldnt really
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Firestorm
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: normaslly not right now :O
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm maybe a problem with firestorm then
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont use that viewer
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll have to test
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Popular viewer
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: it works fine in Replex and Singularity
[2014/09/16 11:15]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i use singularity
[2014/09/16 11:16]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it did never for me
[2014/09/16 11:17]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I spoke with Maria at hypergrid business today... she is going to write up an article to try to help raise some money via donations to offset the cost of getting osgrid back online. 3RG donated today via their paypal link on their website and we're hoping many more from our community will help if they can.
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks I did let the guys Know about that
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: no one has responded yet though
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: it's fine.. not looking for anything from it... just a part of the community helping one of our peers
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: :)
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: what are the chances that this mirroring process will allow some of the data to be recovered at the end of it?
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I dont understand one thing, its raid 10. so technical the second raid set (if not corrupted must be works fine) but i think more happend. i know once my raid one controller scrambled both disks
[2014/09/16 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thanks, i know they are trying to figure things out as quickly as possible
[2014/09/16 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: costs are definitely a part of the problem
[2014/09/16 11:19]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: or is it highly likely that assets, etc start all over from scratch?
[2014/09/16 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: I don't know
[2014/09/16 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: I know about as much as you guys know right now
[2014/09/16 11:19]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: we donated $250... if we could raise 10 times or 20 times that amount that should help
[2014/09/16 11:19]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dahlia
[2014/09/16 11:19]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I know little if anything about RAIDs so was just curious
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: 10 might be a combo of striping and mirroring. With four drives I would have thought you might have been able to use RAID 5(?)
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i kow raid, and if the conrttroller get coocoo better hide
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: I must admit i don't either
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont have a lot of experience with them
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: kk
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: well I guess once they finish we'll all cross our fingers
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: We had a noob screw the Raid of one of the solaris boxes a few years ago, cost 12k to recover the data. I don't let anyone near that stuff now.
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 finds it troubling that apparently it's OSGrid's problem and the data center doesn't seem to accept any responsibility
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: We can only see whats left afetr its done
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: if the "card" went south... most likely it will require a perfect match as a replacement.. including bios, etc.
[2014/09/16 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya one way or another OSgrid will boune back
[2014/09/16 11:21]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ Dahlia
[2014/09/16 11:21]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ++Dahlia
[2014/09/16 11:21]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yes, I'm sure many have IARs and OARs that would help to recover a lot of stuff
[2014/09/16 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Dahlia, we can blame the datacenter for not haveing identical raid controlelrs yes. but then the old controler still can have damaged lots of data already
[2014/09/16 11:21]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: striping is a good benefit, but we've chosen to run multiple db's and make nightly backups from our slaves.
[2014/09/16 11:21]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: will just take a real community push to get stores up again, etc
[2014/09/16 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: im not worried about regions. but the porblem is inventory
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: raid can get ugly when it fails
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont mean blame, I mean let them pay for fixing it
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Dahlia, probably something in the TOS that says they only take a certain amount of responsibility for the machines operation and not the data on the servers.
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: one of the problems is OSgrid has grown quite large the asset database
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: its over 2tb
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: 3rg is running at aroun 250gb right now
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they were selling servers which supposedly could handle such data
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: its like 2.5-2.8tb
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: a 2TB asset table? that's wild.
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Even if they take responsibility, and offer recompense of some sort, that won't bring assets back. It kinda is what it is now.
[2014/09/16 11:22]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i can remember in the time i used vps etc. that there;'s a rule you need to carry for backups
[2014/09/16 11:23]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: in some ways it would almost be better if everything *was* lost....would rein in the asset count :p
[2014/09/16 11:23]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: that would be a nightmare.
[2014/09/16 11:23]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: We have SAN now
[2014/09/16 11:23]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Butch, 250G of assets? That's not too bad. I have a grid of around 400G
[2014/09/16 11:23]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not a reliable datacenter if the dont know what the sell
[2014/09/16 11:24]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: nope.. we keep it pretty trim when we can
[2014/09/16 11:24]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: we don't run deduplication
[2014/09/16 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: ya OSgrid did
[2014/09/16 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: we had that many assets with dedup
[2014/09/16 11:24]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: deduping is something I'd like to see in core.
[2014/09/16 11:24]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I've written ac# version of sras... but I'm still testing it now
[2014/09/16 11:24]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: wonder how many deleted pine cubes there were
[2014/09/16 11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it's there Andrew
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 64273572634 cubes i guess
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002 has an inventory chock full of objects named "Primitive". ;)
[2014/09/16 11:25]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: justin has been working on it
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: nice butch are you going to have that code on github ornaything?>
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: we hope to contribute back when finished
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: nice
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Butch, I already did a version of an sras style de-duping.It is in mantis.
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: nice.. I'll take a peek
[2014/09/16 11:25]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I'm trying some experiments with layered cache
[2014/09/16 11:26]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Doesn't robust have the ability to dedupe now? If so, has anyone used/tested it?
[2014/09/16 11:26]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Blue, not in core afaik. If so, I'd like to see the information on using it.
[2014/09/16 11:26]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it is in core
[2014/09/16 11:26]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i guess whats in soms with good admins the stuff is in oar's and not lost. so its not hard to restore shops i think
[2014/09/16 11:26]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: xassets, I think, is the name
[2014/09/16 11:26]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Dang this stupid laptop. The space bar doesnt work all the time.
[2014/09/16 11:27]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I'll be glad when I can get my desktop running again.
[2014/09/16 11:27]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Blue, is that safe for production or just experimental?
[2014/09/16 11:27]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I wonder if anyone has done anything with a distributed nosql like model?
[2014/09/16 11:27]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew. maby the position you press it, microsoft keyboard did have that habbit to
[2014/09/16 11:27]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I remember Adam was looking at one a few years ago
[2014/09/16 11:27]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, it seems ok - the caviat is that justin hasn't finished doing the migrations yet
[2014/09/16 11:27]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: my experiment with the layered caching is using mongo
[2014/09/16 11:28]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it keeps the data in the database, which is better
[2014/09/16 11:28]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: spending a few weeks having to rely on HG has certainly reinforced the notion that it's not really ready for prime time in its current state....hopefully some of the more glaring problems can get looked at before the OSCC
[2014/09/16 11:28]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: There was an article from justin I read that had three different options for doing deduping. Must have been old as I don't recall it mentioning xassets.
[2014/09/16 11:29]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think Adam was looking at http://www.project-voldemort.com/voldemort/ not sure what happened
[2014/09/16 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: I have said this many times, xassets is present in core but not yet active
[2014/09/16 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: personally I think having backups as blobs makes doing backups considerably more difficult
[2014/09/16 11:29]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I agree
[2014/09/16 11:29]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Dahlia, think someone here looking at MySQL Hadhoop/sqoop integration
[2014/09/16 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: when your database becomes tb
[2014/09/16 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: your talking about a complete nighmare
[2014/09/16 11:30]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: XAssetService.cs
[2014/09/16 11:30]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: At least much slower neb
[2014/09/16 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: atleast with flat files you can do sequestion rsyncs
[2014/09/16 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: and database dumps are very fast
[2014/09/16 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: even with millions of assets
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: How does SRAS store assets?
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: flat files
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: nebadon, that is also when you look at DB replication
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: sort of like flotsam
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002 nods.
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: disk storage with a referring hash
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but db replication isnt easy
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: and when its tbs of data
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: its scary stuff
[2014/09/16 11:31]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont see a problem with flat files as long as the file system is configured to handle it
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but if it's not it wastes space and shuts down the server when it runs out of inodes
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I've been looking in to replication. Doesn't seem all that bad.
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: a huge db is not fun... I dread a day when I see corruptions start appearing.
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Main problem is having a second machine available.
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: recovery is not as fast using replication with gigantic dbs
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: a file system is really the same as a database anyway
[2014/09/16 11:32]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: 3rg has a core db and 2 slaves..
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: all of which are on sep machines.
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: its just implemented in kernel spave
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *space
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: nebadon, you could always copy the raw files across instead of a rebuild.
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: we have an empty hot swap server when/if we need it
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: brb sort of distracted starting more bots
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: grr... cat is after my chair again
[2014/09/16 11:33]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: betetr your chair then the keyboard or mouse
[2014/09/16 11:34]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: he already went after a mouse this morning but I'm talking about one with a tail that moves on its own. :)
[2014/09/16 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: 40 bots in
[2014/09/16 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: well whats nice about flat files is
[2014/09/16 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: you can do rysnc, of 99% of the data
[2014/09/16 11:37]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 nods
[2014/09/16 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: and it only transers new files
[2014/09/16 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: so backups are quite minmal
[2014/09/16 11:37]  Stiofain MacTomais: hi folks
[2014/09/16 11:37]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: so, blobs can be handy
[2014/09/16 11:37]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hello
[2014/09/16 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: most grids though will stay relatively small
[2014/09/16 11:38]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: no i eman seperate files
[2014/09/16 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: should do links so that assets are fetched from urls and cached when required
[2014/09/16 11:38]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: distributed databases have replication and all that down to a well-oiled machine
[2014/09/16 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: then you really have a distributed system
[2014/09/16 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats true to dahlia, i guess it comes down to resources too
[2014/09/16 11:39]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: nebadon, why not create a batch file with : start "" "C:\Projects\rad_build\radegast\bin\Radegast.exe" -a -u "Top Dog" -p xxxxxxx --loginuri "http://127.0.0.1:8080/" --location "your-region/129/129/22"
[2014/09/16 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: hopefully for most smaller grids though it should be relatively painless
[2014/09/16 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i could do that too i do have some bat files for stuff like that
[2014/09/16 11:39]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: then .. timeout /t 4 between entries
[2014/09/16 11:40]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: The sizeofa grids DBs is a function of the number of users, their activities, and the amount of time the grid has been running.
[2014/09/16 11:40]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I can start 20 that way, more seems to be a problem
[2014/09/16 11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ya
[2014/09/16 11:40]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: but can have multiple batch files
[2014/09/16 11:40]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: then 4 clicks and done
[2014/09/16 11:41]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: deterministic characteristics
[2014/09/16 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi whispers: anyone else have anything going on this week?
[2014/09/16 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: ah see you made it over Marcus, glad you did
[2014/09/16 11:44]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 waiting for aPOST diagnostic card so I can determine if my MB is toast or not.
[2014/09/16 11:44]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi macrus
[2014/09/16 11:44]  Stiofain MacTomais: was hoping for some news on osgrid
[2014/09/16 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing yet, though i havet spoken to anyone yet today
[2014/09/16 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: I was talking with diva about some potentially cool things for Hypergrid
[2014/09/16 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: she has some neat ideas
[2014/09/16 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: about being able to have a kind of centralized robust service to register hypergrid regions on
[2014/09/16 11:47]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: kinda like a dns?
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: sort of like your region registers with your own services as well as second service
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess like dns, but more like being on 2 grids at once
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: or potentially more
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: so you can interconnect stuff
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Oh, I have a question.
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: kind of just throwing ideas around
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I did that by accident in the early days.. back in 08 I messed up my settings and actually ended up tp'ing to my test grid by accident..
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: but i couldn't get back
[2014/09/16 11:48]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: :)
[2014/09/16 11:49]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: b4 hypergrid
[2014/09/16 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: definitely needs to have the ability to register with more than just 1 service
[2014/09/16 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: a single monotlithic service is unrealistic
[2014/09/16 11:49]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: its going to break soemday
[2014/09/16 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: if you have dns then use dns, you don't want to replicate it
[2014/09/16 11:50]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: couldn't you use primary and secondary and connect via dns or load balancer?
[2014/09/16 11:50]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: facilitating some of it would be helpful though
[2014/09/16 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I will see what diva is up to
[2014/09/16 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: see if she can attend next week
[2014/09/16 11:51]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: It's just about discoverability, isn't it? A standard API for registering with a web service(s) would do that.
[2014/09/16 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: she is traveling at some confernece right now
[2014/09/16 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: be good to get a discussion going on the topic
[2014/09/16 11:51]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Is it possible for the serializer to report the UUID(?) of what it was processing when it hits an exception?
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: if the metaverse is going to grow something needs to be done
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: brainstorming in a room full of smart people can do no harm
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: :)
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: fixing some of the existing bugs would help
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: can opensim dns errors not report with a nice error instead of .net error spam on console ?
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ++justin
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: fixing some of the more rudimentary stuff would also help a great deal to promote its use
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: ya definitely
[2014/09/16 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: but even with all the bug fixes its not so easy finding all the cool places to visit
[2014/09/16 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: its very difficult infact
[2014/09/16 11:53]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I agree with that..
[2014/09/16 11:53]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: maybe somehow it could be hooked into the V3 viewer destination guide thing
[2014/09/16 11:53]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: hyperlink-google
[2014/09/16 11:53]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: anything we can do to make it more appealing will help us all by attracting more users to our community
[2014/09/16 11:53]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: somehow make destination guild be a multi-grid thing
[2014/09/16 11:53]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: some of which I'm sure might be developers
[2014/09/16 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: ya that could be done now im sure
[2014/09/16 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: though the destination guide may only be limited to grid you cam from
[2014/09/16 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure if that can be set at region level i think we decided that was not good
[2014/09/16 11:55]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: well, just thinking of a viewer architecture that already exists that could be leveraged
[2014/09/16 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it can be
[2014/09/16 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool
[2014/09/16 11:55]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so maybe some way to distribute those destinations to each grid
[2014/09/16 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think
[2014/09/16 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I dont remember
[2014/09/16 11:55]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: via a remove data service
[2014/09/16 11:55]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I am also a partner at Digital Worlds Group... we are working on some projects which should be released very soon which I think many will find useful in bringing more people into our community and helping to organize.. but i cannot really say anything beyond that
[2014/09/16 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: with divas idea though
[2014/09/16 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: because if a preson has a large estate onb a grid, they could set it for their region
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: then when you're in any grid you can pull that up and have a range of hg locations recommended
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: she was saying if there were central robust services that could tie 2 grids or clusters of hg standalones together
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: then regions would just show up in the map search
[2014/09/16 11:56]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what happens when they're stacked on top of each other?
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: no idea
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: probably same thing that would happen now
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: layering?
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: map search is crap for hg
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: that's a novel thought
[2014/09/16 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: it doesn't make any sense
[2014/09/16 11:57]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: the names of the regions would be listed so they could be selected.
[2014/09/16 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's like having a map of websites
[2014/09/16 11:57]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I guess the 2'nd party registreation is responsible to move them/soret them
[2014/09/16 11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: yea but it needs to be made easier
[2014/09/16 11:57]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that might have some uses
[2014/09/16 11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: gigantically long urls pasted in chat isnt working either
[2014/09/16 11:57]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: there are probably better ways to do things that will scale
[2014/09/16 11:57]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: It would have to fetch themap from the remote grid if you selected a region no in the current grid youare in.
[2014/09/16 11:57]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: particualrly with FS that doesn't handle spaces well
[2014/09/16 11:58]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: we at digital worlds group own the domain dwgurl.com which we hope to provide dns services for grids and private standalones to use to try to unify
[2014/09/16 11:58]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: FS does OK with spaces, it just needs the parts of the url to be formatted with ":"
[2014/09/16 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: most chat applications wont handle spaces in urls properly
[2014/09/16 11:58]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: singularity to sofra i hav eseen
[2014/09/16 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: spacves in urls get escaped to %20
[2014/09/16 11:58]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we are putting several component out there with those, and they must be delimited properly
[2014/09/16 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: an url with an actual space is not an url
[2014/09/16 11:59]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: one thing that's a bit of a nightmare is if the url of a grid changes....any friends, groups, etc registered in any other grid become invalid
[2014/09/16 11:59]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: with no method at all to update them
[2014/09/16 11:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I usually just use grid.location/com:port:Region Name
[2014/09/16 11:59]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: we would make a dynamic dns module for opensim
[2014/09/16 11:59]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: where if the ip address changes..
[2014/09/16 11:59]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: it could report back and update the domain name
[2014/09/16 12:00]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000 nods
[2014/09/16 12:00]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but anyone switching to your service would invalidate any existing HG friends, etc
[2014/09/16 12:00]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what is that "hop" think?
[2014/09/16 12:00]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: they would all have to be wiped and start all over again
[2014/09/16 12:00]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thing
[2014/09/16 12:00]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: unless we provided a way to migrate
[2014/09/16 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: hop only works in a few viewers
[2014/09/16 12:00]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see that sometimes, but it never seems to work
[2014/09/16 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: its basically secondlife:// replacement
[2014/09/16 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: a launcher
[2014/09/16 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: yet another half-completed and undocumented thing
[2014/09/16 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: over-complicated?
[2014/09/16 12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortunately
[2014/09/16 12:01]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: A few TPVs have taken stabs at hop. I don't think they've ever gotten their collective heads together to really get it smoothed out, though.
[2014/09/16 12:01]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol.. we have to remember.. the way to eat an elephant is a bite at a time. :)
[2014/09/16 12:01]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: do we need to do anything to make it better?
[2014/09/16 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: unless the elephant kills you first
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: true justin
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 laughs
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: this is why god invented trash compators
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, send them ductape with instructions :)
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: lol
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: A reference client that sets the standard for hop would prolly help. >:)
[2014/09/16 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the hop thing, does it need support from us?
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: wel,l it'sjust part the hour now
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to go to keynote 1
[2014/09/16 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Region found!
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Region found!
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: you can also look at the elephant using a pair of binoculars but hold them backwards...then it's way smaller and easier to digest
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i can be there for 15min
[2014/09/16 12:02]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I'm going to log out. Running a viewer is hard ona laptop.
[2014/09/16 12:03]  Butch.Arnold @betalogin.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol
[2014/09/16 12:03]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Staff%20Zone%201/132/55/85
[2014/09/16 12:03]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/16 12:03]  Connected
[2014/09/16 12:04]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2014/09/16 12:04]  Connected
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