Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-19

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[10:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: hey guys
 
[10:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: hey guys
 
[10:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello
 
[10:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello
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[12:00]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I stopped at Keynote 1 on my way here, it was full of Nebanon NPCs already
 
[12:00]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I stopped at Keynote 1 on my way here, it was full of Nebanon NPCs already
 
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]

Latest revision as of 14:34, 25 October 2015

[10:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: hey guys
[10:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello
[10:57]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hey Justin
[10:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: I must admit, this has a different feel to sitting in a circle
[10:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I sent an email to the lists with the HG address
[10:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and hit all the IRC channels
[10:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks. I tweeted it as well
[10:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: cool
[10:58]  Mata Hari waves
[10:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello
[10:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi mata
[10:58]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Mata
[10:59]  Justin Clark-Casey wonders if he should try to code a 'steady state' feature into pCampbot or actually pay attention
[10:59]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: your early here justin
[10:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello
[10:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: meh, think I'll pay attn, that feature actually requires me to think a little bit which I'm awful at when distracted
[11:00]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: steady state?
[11:00]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb. its not only wright palza thats down right ?
[11:00]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi RiRa
[11:00]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya the whole grid is down there
[11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I want to write some code so that I can instruct pCampbot to automatically delog avatars if sim hits, say 95 occupancy
[11:00]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ahhh, ok
[11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: and automatically relog if it goes bleow, to try and keep a steady state
[11:00]  Mata Hari: I thought steady state had been disproved years ago and it was all a question about the precise acceleration rate or the universe's post-big bang expansion...
[11:01]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: nice
[11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: so that real ppl can always get in, rather than trying to do that by hand
[11:01]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: intressting
[11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: heh, yes
[11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: I like the idea though
[11:02]  Mata Hari: so did Einstein so you've got company :p
[11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: so this week I took my fired my first subtantial bullet at improving perf
[11:03]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is my hair showing bte and shirt ?
[11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: so I'm hoping that will work at high numbers today
[11:04]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i dont see your shirt Richardus
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nebadon, did you put a note on the login page of osgrid. so people know where to go ?
[11:04]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no i didnt
[11:04]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: probably should have
[11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok. let em try replace outfit. its mesh
[11:04]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i can tweet it
[11:05]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok done
[11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if it dont show now then i dont know any fix
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ok, I just flipped a bit to run slightly different clientstack code on keynotes, let me know if you see anything unusual
[11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: I might just flip it here as well...
[11:06]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok
[11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hope i dont look worse now
[11:06]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no restart?
[11:06]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i was logging in bots already
[11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, I coded it so that it can be flipped at runtime
[11:07]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: nice
[11:07]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++
[11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, for ppl here, any opensim topics anybody wants to talk about today?
[11:09]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: has anyone tried the new Bulletsim branch yet?
[11:09]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I havent had time
[11:09]  Mata Hari: not yet
[11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: regarding the inventory issue, do you know for sure that the sim itself is looping through the same items, or could those requsts be coming from the viewer?
[11:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm still looking into that Justin
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey whispers: bluewall
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't yet discounted the possibilty that those inventory items are actually missing, or similar
[11:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: My avatar gets some dupliccates
[11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: though if that were the case I might expect it to be happening to many ppl
[11:12]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: is this an OSGrid only issue?
[11:12]  Mata Hari: I don't know that I can say 100% that it's the region doing it rather than the viewer re-requesting it
[11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: I've only heard about it on osgrid so far?
[11:12]  Mata Hari: Bluewall might know since I think he took more detailed log than I did
[11:12]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: No, I am using my OSG avatar and region ...
[11:13]  Mata Hari: no, was referring to where the requests were originating
[11:13]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I do have some duplicate requests, but my inventory is only slightly over 2K items
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: do you ithink it might be the client timing out on the request an dresnding it?
[11:13]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: so, I am doing various things to investigate
[11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: I did briefly look at the viewer code in this area but it's not easy to read
[11:14]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: When I was testing Mata, the request count would climb as long as her avatar was in the sim
[11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: though if it were simple timeout I would expec tthe requests to eventually work, not endlessly repeat... unless it's an issue with missing items and we don't send back the proper "no item" response
[11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, interesting
[11:14]  Mata Hari: what debug command would I need to use in order to see the communication between the region and the viewer?
[11:14]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Then, the queue would start clearing out after she left
[11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: "debug http in 5" on the simulator would show the entire request, which I think you already did for some logs?
[11:15]  Mata Hari: yes, I did that
[11:15]  Mata Hari: absolutely 0 communication between then once the fetch hangs
[11:15]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I am having to unravel where the requests are coming from and their traversal through the region modules, etc.
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: sounds good. It's a complex system
[11:16]  Mata Hari: the entire log for that part is region sending GET to the inventory server and receiving responses
[11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: later I can do another packet dump and cmpare
[11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't discounted the possibiklity either that it's some horrible issue with the underlying http server closing requests too early or something like that
[11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I might need acccess to the OSG data to look
[11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: or I can pass it off to someone who does.
[11:17]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: btw - could I get SU on the opensimulator.org site?
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm sure ne would be happy to give you the required access?
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: sure
[11:17]  Mata Hari: to be honest I think it's somewhat less likely to be a timing issue since some remote servers can reliably let me load inventory evne though there's a much longer delay
[11:17]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: our website was down this am, and it took a while to get it on
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: that to me would suggest it's definitely connected with timing
[11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: since root servers have extremely good ping
[11:17]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I could at-least start digging in the logs to see if I can find the cause.
[11:18]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: With the inventory, the next step is to see if the reply is getting back to the viewer and if the viewer is re-requesting the item.
[11:18]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mata, your not behidn a bad isp router that have not enough memory for routing ?
[11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah
[11:19]  Mata Hari: the response times for the same GET commands for her were 150ms + vs my sims were 125 or so
[11:19]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: after that, we shoudl have it isolated enough to start looking for the actual cause ...
[11:19]  Mata Hari: so mine is getting responses from Texas more rapidly
[11:19]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think the mantis has doen everything except called Ghost Busters
[11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm scared to read it,. it's so long
[11:20]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it's easy to speculate about anything
[11:21]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, then it's a trial and error proposition to "fix"
[11:21]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: so must dig and dig to get to the bottom
[11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, speculation is easy. Actually finding the issue is hard
[11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ok, I think I just gave you sudo access on opensimulator.org
[11:22]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, thanks
[11:22]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'll be able to look at logs, etc. now to help out.
[11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: that would be great. I still need to update soem of the software again (wiki, mantis, etc.)
[11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: but never find time
[11:23]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I dont' have much time either, but maybe I can look into that
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: also, damn thing needs a reboot and I'm always a little scared to do that after the last time it wouldn;'t come back up since it ran out of space on the root partition
[11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: cool
[11:23]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: did logs eat it up?
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: it should reboot just fine but I don't like to do unless I potentially have time afterwards to fix it
[11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: (the space)
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: no, kernels :)
[11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm, upodates?
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's got a very small boot partition
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah
[11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see
[11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it was rebooted laste week
[11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ah ok, cool
[11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: my typing sucks more and more
[11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: I long since stopped bothering to correct most of my typos :)
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: speed over accuracy....
[11:25]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: who said practice makes perfect?
[11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ive got a bunch of bots logged in
[11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: still going
[11:25]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think typos belong to this mellenium :P
[11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'#,not going to login until we start the test this week
[11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: I want to see if behaviour is ok at lower numbers
[11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: but pls carry on with your stuff
[11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: k
[11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: its only 20 per region
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Kayaker
[11:27]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I made it!
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great
[11:27]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi
[11:27]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-)
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Luisillo didnt see you come in :)
[11:27]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: hello im worried about you from your twitt
[11:27]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: but you are here you are well
[11:27]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-)
[11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 whispers: hehe :)
[11:28]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: justin have problems .. avatar is ruthed
[11:28]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: hahahahaha
[11:28]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-)
[11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh, I'm using my local conf acct since I usually use osgrid for hg and my own hg grid is currently not configured
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: 60 bots in
[11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics today?
[11:30]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question about the ossl functions.
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sure
[11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ask away
[11:31]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I like to write portable code, but I cannot count on ANY of those functions working whereever I go
[11:31]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: indeed
[11:31]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: They are not enabled by many for fear of the threat levels.
[11:31]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: And I'm not convinced that the threat levels are correct.
[11:31]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I agree
[11:32]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Why is osMakeNoteCard a HIGH threat level?
[11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yea we probably could lighten up on that a bit
[11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well
[11:32]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: or npc playing animation...
[11:32]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, maybe we could do an audit and make a suggested list to tun on.
[11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: it can generate permanant assets very fast
[11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i keep most disabled, if i have something enabled i lock it to me
[11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: leading to bloat
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: in principle, osMakeNoteCard could fill the entire asset system with notecards
[11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: some levels arev weird yes
[11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: though that said, there are many other ways that could happen, including just upload for grids with no 'charge'
[11:33]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: llSleep can bring a SIM to its knees, but it has no threat level at all.
[11:33]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: writing scripts create many assets
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:33]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: threat levels dont apply to LSL at all
[11:33]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: then we must block llRezObject or others as this?
[11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: It's serious, though I would also say the llSleep issue is not one that will cause permanentl issues, unlike filling the file system
[11:34]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you block rezz for all, smart todo then problemfixt
[11:34]  Mata Hari: in many cases (where it bypasses perm checks) it would be very useful if it would work anywhere if target is owner but otherwise failed
[11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall; that's true tooo
[11:34]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: there really is no way to generate scripts automatically though either
[11:34]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I shoudl turn on the de-dup assets server you're working on
[11:35]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: any known issues with it?
[11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't mind seeing pathces to revise OSSL levels, though everyone might meet resistance from those with a very high security orientation
[11:35]  Mata Hari: like being able to write your own OSSL-based AO but not being able to animate someone else unless the function is enabled
[11:35]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: There are no old LSL functions that can create assets?
[11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: no, it's experimental because a) there's stil a possibility I may change the data format and b) I haven't completely worked out a final migration solutions
[11:35]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: most of those are walled garden operators anyway, I think?
[11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: afaik, there are not....
[11:35]  Mata Hari: the one I find a little mystifying is osMessageAttachment being as high as it is
[11:35]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no Kayaker there are not
[11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: maybe, though I think it is right to be very careful about this stuff
[11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: having other people effectively execute code on your machine is a hairy business
[11:36]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes
[11:36]  Mata Hari: other than flooding the region with messages I can't think of anything malicious you could do with it
[11:37]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: also, you can't really know all the outcomes of turning a thing on until it's too late
[11:37]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Andrew
[11:37]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: you made it :)
[11:37]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: So, it turns out one of the other grids I'm in was HG enabled.
[11:37]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Nice hat andrew
[11:37]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Thanks.
[11:38]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol andrew. there enough HG grid
[11:38]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: There are plenty around but I stay out of HG enabled grids for the most part.
[11:38]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: why is veryhight dangerous osAvatarPlayAnimation() and osAvatarStopAnimation() ?
[11:38]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I got here from Kitely, had to remove my nice hat and wear this one though...
[11:38]  Mata Hari: because there's no perm check
[11:38]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: in a npc?
[11:39]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: a npc always give permisions isnt it?
[11:39]  Mata Hari: so I could wear something that makes eveyone else in the region play any animation I want, regardless
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: luis: it does allow you to play any animiation on any avatar
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we need to fix that
[11:39]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: oh i see
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: which in a social grid is griefing city (apart from llSleep()) :)
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we need a Security allowance for NPC and OSSL
[11:39]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: i see .. not only the npc ok
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we talked about that before Justin and I
[11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: fixing the llSleep issue is a priority for me but it's buried behind all my other high priority issues
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: like how you can do ESTATE_MANAGER
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we need a NPC class
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: because the only way you can make NPC run ossl is to allow everyone to run OSSL
[11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: kind of dangerous
[11:40]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wish NPC could haev inventory and IM
[11:40]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: yes im agree
[11:40]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats indeed stranbge logic
[11:40]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you cannot set the npc uuid to ossl ?
[11:40]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: its not by design Richardus
[11:40]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: thank you for clarify
[11:40]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: its just a short sited design
[11:40]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: justin, I'm interested in some of the LSL issues. My priority re: the engine is to fix some of the parsing errors.
[11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: /menods
[11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: the space on this keyboard also doesn't work very well
[11:40]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Jim
[11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: ever since the lat time I took it apart and put it back together
[11:41]  Mata Hari: there's actually one that I'd like to see changed in function: osAgentSave Appearnace should be *mandatory* permission check from the person whose appearance is being cloned
[11:41]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Richardus, an NPC can't do IMs?
[11:41]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Izzie
[11:41]  Mata Hari: I've had someone clone me without my consent.....was *NOT* ammused
[11:41]  Jim.Jackson @hypergrid.org:8002: hello
[11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: yeah, that sounds right, though one issue here is the fact that perms stuff is fixed I think
[11:41]  Izzie.Applewhyte @hypergrid.org:8002: Hello
[11:41]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we could send one of those Blue Pop ups maybe?
[11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: so you can't request some arbitrary 'permission' apart from the set already known by SL, afaik
[11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: like when a script animates you
[11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: it asks you first
[11:42]  Mata Hari: hm
[11:42]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: good idea
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but all that stuff is baked in afair
[11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya probably needs viewer team coordination
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: you can't require a new permissions without extending the system, which might require viewer extension
[11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: don't know for sure
[11:42]  Mata Hari: I believe you can edit the notecard to remove stuff
[11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: really, you want some way of requesting arbitrary perms that doesn't require future viewer extension
[11:43]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how hard woudl it be to extend the NPC to use the owner inventory?
[11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: at a guess, very hard
[11:43]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :S
[11:44]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Notecard?
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: if npc's absolutely needed inv, my first thought would be to just do an 'in memory' inventory
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that itself is very non-trivial
[11:44]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: or just put that stuff in the contents of an attachment
[11:44]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and direct the attachment to do stuff with the contents?
[11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: so what's the immediate use case for an npc inventory?
[11:44]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: use Listens for commands
[11:44]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: thats how i control my npcs
[11:44]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I made some NPC avatars and they work in the sim they were created in. But you can't really move them into a new sim
[11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: why not?
[11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ive moved my npcs to different grids
[11:45]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm
[11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: the trick with moving npcs
[11:45]  Mata Hari: really?
[11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: is put everything they have attached
[11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: into a box
[11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and attach that box to the NPC
[11:45]  Mata Hari: ah
[11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: I presume we don't mean 'move' as in have them teleport
[11:45]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-)
[11:45]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, I'll give that a shot
[11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya you cant teleport them
[11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but moving the script that launches them with the notecard should work
[11:46]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no, place the device in another place.
[11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: as long as everything they have attached or worn comes with them
[11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: however to move them to another grid
[11:46]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it seems like the assets are local, and a new regino does not have them cached.
[11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: usually i have a box i include in the IAR
[11:46]  Mata Hari: yes
[11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i doubt just attaching it works accross grid lines
[11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: which assets in particular?
[11:47]  Mata Hari: I've never been able to take a notecard to a different grid and use it because the asset UUID aren't recognied
[11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: usual avatar assets - skins, clothes, etc.
[11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: and they are transported via OAR?
[11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: right Mata, that is what I have seen
[11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: or you just copy paste script in diff region on same grid?
[11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmmm, no just take the device - more like an IAR
[11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, yes I have seen it in an OAR too
[11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: are the attachments/clothes saved in an appearance notecard?
[11:48]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes
[11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: in the same object as the script
[11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: okay curious, that should work
[11:48]  Mata Hari: it's transporting the appearance that's the issue....appearances are stored with the asset UUIDs so when you rez the npc those UUID need to be "known" to the grid
[11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: on IAR save the notecards are scanned from UUID and asset fetch attemps made
[11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: scanned for UUID
[11:48]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I will experiment with it and have a better description later - it has been a while since I looked at it.
[11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: so in princpile that stuff should be in the archive, that's partly why it did that way
[11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: cool
[11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: as a hack which reused existing functionality
[11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya all i can say is ive moved my npcs from osgrid to other grids and so on
[11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and they worked great
[11:49]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think that I made a device in a region, then took it to another region
[11:49]  Mata Hari: via IAR they would
[11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: so moving inside of a grid between regions should work fine
[11:49]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: rezzed it and the assets were not there
[11:49]  Mata Hari: via tp and then dropping in a notecard it doesn't work
[11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, even if the iar wasn't saving them, the assets would still bea vailable since appearance saves persisted perviously temporary baked textures
[11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: very strange BlueWall definitely give it another go
[11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i will be surprised if that is still the case
[11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: unless some interaction with new code (xbakes, cached textures?) is stopping that from happening
[11:50]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, I'll try it later today or tommorow
[11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ive done it before and after xbakes
[11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: without issue
[11:50]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I've got a var region question when you are ready for a new Q
[11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sure ask away
[11:50]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yah
[11:51]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I've just been told that if you TP from a var to a regular region using the map you crash. If you TP to a reg region from a var using an LM its ok.
[11:51]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: yes i confirm this
[11:51]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dont think i have seen that problem. the are both 0.8 ?
[11:51]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: If you TP from within the 256x256 sw corner of a var to a regular region by map issue you are ok
[11:51]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: but have a exception.
[11:51]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: This is in 0.8PF
[11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: but the other problem still exists in post fixes?
[11:52]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Lusillo, interesting thought... I'll check
[11:52]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew .. if you click in map
[11:52]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: map say invalid location
[11:52]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: but if you search with map.... twice
[11:52]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin: I don't understand the question. This is within a grid that is all running 0.8PF
[11:52]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: then you see a bad location as was old normal region
[11:52]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: then you click teleport and then you go
[11:53]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: you must do twice
[11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I was trying to work out if you only saw the issue with 0.8 release
[11:53]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: the same with your profile favourites
[11:53]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: first .. show on map
[11:53]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: justin, I couldn't say. Only started using/testing vars after updating to 0.8
[11:53]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: after teleport.. and no problem
[11:54]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I'm having someone check to see if there are exceptions in the console of the var.
[11:54]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: or in the target region
[11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: are all the regions running the latest code? or latest release Andrew
[11:55]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: I have a question about my magic number 11 in my overload test reported as http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7289
[11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i know if the region code is not close like say your standalone is not running new code, but older
[11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: you are likely to crash the viewer
[11:55]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Nebadon, all are running latest code from 0.8PF branch
[11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: luis. Yeah, I saw you put up a video, haven#t had time to look yet. Other stuff is absorbing all my time atm
[11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: that was why we did a +1 on the protocol version
[11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok Andrew
[11:56]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: ok justing thank you
[11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: that is odd indeed then
[11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: make sure you have the correct Grid.ini
[11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not an old one
[11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: insure the correct protocol version is in use
[11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: at least it sounds like it shouldn't be too hard to reproduce
[11:57]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: nebadon, was that meant for me re: a setting in Grid.ini?
[11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[11:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ConnectorProtocolVersion = "SIMULATION/0.3"
[11:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: this
[11:58]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok. I had started with the 0.8 INI files and applied my changes so they should be ok. Yes, I remember seeing that one had changed and I have it as 0.3
[11:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok
[11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya not sure what else it could be
[11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: should we jump over to Keynotes now?
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: so we're talking a viewer crash here?
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, let'sgo
[11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: test
[12:00]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: this chair is too comfortable
[12:00]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I stopped at Keynote 1 on my way here, it was full of Nebanon NPCs already
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