Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-27

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[11:00] Nebadon Izumi is online.
[11:00] Robert Adams: I'm working on enhanced linksets -- where you can change the properties of the links in a linkset
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: ?
[11:01] Robert Adams: make them springs, hinges, sliders
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks is online.
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: does lsl not have that command already ?
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: unless you have ossl in mind
[11:01] Robert Adams: no... but I'm adding new ones
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: aah, nie.
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin., neb , all
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, justin. Hello everyone.
[11:02] Robert Adams:
[11:02] vegaslon plutonian: hey
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: are the avatar sits/cams already fixt ?
[11:03] Fred.Appleby Thanks Robert
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think so Richardus
[11:03] Robert Adams: I have about 25 commits that I haven't checked in
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: 25? wow
[11:04] Robert Adams: I figure if I did that now just before OSCC, justin's head might explode
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I have one commit for osprofile (or was it search).
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Robert, we need already keep it togheter with ductap[e
[11:04] vegaslon plutonian: think in general waiting for the next release and see what melanie is willing to donates before anyone looks at the sit cams again
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I simply would stop merging master into 0.7.6-pf :)
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: but I would ideally not make any changes to 0.7.6-pf now for physics except fore critical issues or very sure fixes
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: so, in 2 weeks you maby expect RC ?
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: or 3
[11:05] Robert Adams: ok... I'll check them in then. :)
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: atm, I'm just trying to make it through this conference
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: then we shall see
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: most probably
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: i see 3 clouds.
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: same here
[11:06] Robert Adams: clouds for me, too
[11:06] Fred.Appleby Am I one of those?
[11:07] Fred.Appleby Because I only see 2
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: not you fred
[11:07] Robert Adams: for me, the clouds are Joe and Ocean
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Master, Joe, and Kayaker
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: yup
[11:07] Fred.Appleby Same for me
[11:07] Robert Adams: I see a shape for Master but he's all white
[11:07] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          050617a: 2013-08-23 01:13:19 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: The gas clouds remind me of an episode or two of original series Star Trek. :)
[11:08] Fred.Appleby Rebake Kayaker
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: Can't find it in imprudence...
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I fyou do update master, could you tell me if there are any critical commits that really need to go into 0.7.6-pf? I must admit, it is still useful if master and 0.7.6-pf are very close but I don't want to hold you up unnecessarily
[11:08] Fred.Appleby ctl-alt-r
[11:08] logger sewell: crtl alt R
[11:09] Master Dubrovna: rebakes
[11:09] logger sewell: fred was too fast for mr :P
[11:09] Robert Adams: one Firestorm feature I miss in Singularity is ability to make dialog background transparent
[11:09] Fred.Appleby OK now Kayaker
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: think its in singularity. but first thing i need to do is disable transpaant. lol it makes working very hard if you see the world
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Good, can't tell on my end if it heard me...
[11:11] Fred.Appleby Load test later?
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: right after this meeting concludes
[11:12] Fred.Appleby Anyone know if a viewer works when using vnc remote desktop, the MS one does not?
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: i think that works fred
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: possible a bit slow
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen it with teamviewer
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: brb, but I don't believe vnc will handle opengl
[11:14] Robert Adams: I'll add a load tester from my phone... keep the networks busy
[11:15] Fred.Appleby I have a classroom full of PC, useful for load testing, but awkward to access direct during the holidays
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Running two viewers on my desktop is really hard on the CPU these days. My laptop died so I can't login from it to keep my desktop happy.
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: poor laprop. what died ?
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Seems to be a known problem with one of the chips on the mother board needing to have the solder reflowed.
[11:16] Robert Adams: I turn off basic shaders and turn down view distance... I can get a lot more viewers on my desktop then
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: ohh that crackled gpu chip
[11:16] Licu.Rau hello everyone
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, might be that chip since I saw some funny artifcats on the video screen before it finally died.
[11:17] Fred.Appleby Hello Licu
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, back
[11:19] logger sewell: wb
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: so, any opensim topics today?
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: Hehe, you have time to work on any if we bring them up?
[11:20] Fred.Appleby What is the status of JSON storage?
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: unfortunately not until after the conf :(
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: json storage?
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, have you had any time to look at the pending patches for the mantis reports I filed a while ago?
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I did look at some
[11:21] Robert Adams: json storage and persistance works, as far as I know
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I don't remember what ones I filed without checking. :)
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: waiting for 0.7.6 before i start to work on things
[11:22] Fred.Appleby Thanks Robert, had an idea from somewhere that the format could change
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm still not 100% happy with the new telepor tstuff
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: In a test so far, pCampbot has enountered transient issues though I don't know yet whether that's some quirk of pCampbot or some opensim issue
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: whats crawling around justin about tp stuff now
[11:23] Licu.Rau may I ask what is the status of materials? cool vl viewer has an experimental version to see materials... what about openim?
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: Licu, alpha i think with materials
[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: licu: opensim dev code does have materials support
[11:24] vegaslon plutonian: has anyone seen it taking up to a minute for a shift copy of a prim to apear and while you wait you can't move?
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: There is a materials module available. I use it regularly. But it hasn't yet been declared ready for release, and isn't enabled by default.
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: If dahlia pops by, she's the one to ask.
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: vegaslon: have not seen that
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: Hi marcus. not done any building with opensim last time.
[11:25] Licu.Rau thank you Markus... I see it is called MaterialDemoModule... so still a demo i think
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn nods in agreement to Licu.
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, The attachments to group notices patch is the main one I was wondering about. I've updated it once already due to other OS changes going in since the patch. Didn't want to updated it a 3rd time.
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: I haven't run intyo any problems with the materials module myself. But until dahlia says it's done, we have to expect that it may change on us.
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: unfortunately, I have zero capacity to process complex patches atm and this will likely remian the case until after the conf
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, np. I'll try to remember to hold of on asking about it again until after the conference.
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble is online.
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: s/of/off/
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: whenis the conference ?
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: wkend after next
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: practically all my time is spent dealing with issues arising from that atm
[11:32] tx Oh: hi
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: "buffer overflow" for justin :O
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I have 81 avatars logged into Keynotes already :)
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, feels like it
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: expect me to start spewing lines about viagra and nigerian bank accounts soon
[11:33] tx Oh: oh, is there a stresstest again?
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol Justin
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: lol justin
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: yep right after this meeting
[11:34] tx Oh: nice, i didn't got a place for the conference so far. but it's ok.
[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Oh, I thought you were talking about stressing out Justin
[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: I've missed the last couple tests. Is there anything special we should be paying attention to? Anything we should or should not be doing?
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: preference is to come in and sit down, since that redulces load on the servers
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: should not be sitting. no matter what Justin says :P
[11:35] Fearghus.McMahon hi all
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Dahlia! :) We were wondering earlier where the materials module sat.
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: Hi Dahlia. well better test is if we stay all :P
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: lol, this is a stress test
[11:36] logger sewell: hey is there anyway to block a specific viewer from logging in
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: and I'm not even the one working the hardest :0
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: logger sewell, yes
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... some of the map tiles of nearby regions hvae the white strip down the right hand side.
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: in Robust.ini
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: assuming your running grid
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: in Standalone its probably StandaloneCommon.ini
[11:36] logger sewell: thanks Neb i missed that when i was digging
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: you can blacklist viewers
[11:37] tx Oh: i made a camera script to make my map tile :-)
[11:37] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, it sits in the source tree :)
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: the directions are in the ini
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: hmm about viewers... does have 0.7.6 beter HG maptile view ?
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: That's usually a problem when running with the warp3d map generator
[11:37] Dahlia Trimble: I'm still waiting for Justin to finalize the storage before I move it to non-experimental status
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: The white strip on a map tile only occurs under Linux. POssible a mono GDI quirk or something.
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: Ah, okay, Dahlia. :)
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: no, i mean no maptile at all when you HG
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I was thinking it was an OS issue. I won't try fixing it in the OS code in that case.
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: also I think LL hasn't quite released it yet, so protocol might change
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: there is a new variable you need to set
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: for the HG map
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you won't see the tile when you search on map initially
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: LL officially released materials into their main viewer recently.
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: but once you get into the destination grid you will then see tiles
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: ya but they still have a RC of it too I think
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: or project viewer
[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: ok. look at that and call back when im at that point again
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: One thing I have noticed is that I can't remove a specular map from a mesh.
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: really? I havent tried that
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: it should
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: Dunno if it's a viewer thing or what. But yeah... it pops back into place when you leave the specular settings.
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. I have some ghost maptiles showing up. A region was temporarily moved and the tile shows up where it used to be. Haven't found out how to get rid of the ghost tiles yet.
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: probably a viewer thing
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble blames the viewer
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: lol
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: I've been using Kokua for all my materials, and that one follows LL code pretty darn close. I'll keep paying attention to the behavior for now.
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Viewer cache has been cleared and they still show up.
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to do further digging in to the database incase some old info was left lying around.
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: I havent tried kokua, I was using the LL project viewr
[11:43] tx Oh: kokua got a new version out
[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Kokua has had material support for a while now.
[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: The only other thing I've experienced as a problem occurs in combination with the experimental mesh deformer, and that's *definitely( a viewer issue. I did give someone a backtrace for that.
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: I think I tried Cool VL but at the time it would only display materials
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: it wouldnt set them
[11:44] tx Oh: when was the conference again?
[11:45] Marcus Llewellyn:
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: no that link dont work marcus. no HG
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Unrelated Question: Why is is better to run multiple regions in separate instances?
[11:45] tx Oh: ty
[11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: That's for the conference's website.
[11:46] Joe Radik: September 7-8
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have 6 regions running in one 'screen' in one instance on Opensuse Linux, it has been very reliable.
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: .better? it's different, not necessarily better or worse
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: 1) protection against crashes. 2) previously ODE was flaky but is better now in multi-region. However, will be less efficient
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: personally, I think it's fine nowadays
[11:46] Robert Adams: more physics, more script engine, probably little better latency if regions are active
[11:46] Joe Radik: Wow! Local chat shows me as Unknown User
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: but it does get less testing, naturally, that a single region in an instance
[11:46] Joe Radik: Am I still a cloud?
[11:46] Robert Adams: probably not much difference if the regions are not very active
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: for simple regions, I often ren them all on the same instance
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: for ones with a lot of stuff, I have separate
[11:47] Robert Adams: so, the ultimate answer: it depends
[11:47] tx Oh: i run multiple regions in one sim. since.. ever?
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia is the only one I see as a gas cloud.
[11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: It was scripting that got wierd for me with multiple regions per instance. Some regions would stop running them for unknown reasons.
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: Note: a mega you can only run on 1 simulator :\
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: Good data, thanks all. I think I'll leave them multiple in one instance,
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: cloud? OMG *does vainty rebake*
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I see you now, Dahlia.
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: perhaps add a second instance for sailable waters around it when border crossings is allowed...
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: planning to build first as normal regions. but afraid verhcile simborders is far away
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: when border crossings work i dont think you need a mega
[11:49] Robert Adams: yes... need border crossing!!
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: lol when they work
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: People used to say "come the melenium" to mean don't hold your breath...
[11:50] Robert Adams: this conference is delaying things
[11:50] tx Oh: what happen when you try border crossing?
[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Delaying some things, but it's provided some rapid development in other areas, which is cool. :)
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: "poof"
[11:50] Robert Adams: vehicels don't behave well.... any sitting avatar is unsat
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: physics and vehciles dont go over border currently
[11:50] Fearghus.McMahon hmmm the conference is maybe delaying some things...but it is also bringing us improvements i think
[11:51] tx Oh: this conference got many old bugs fixed.
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: the conference make other things good so things after that are less porblematic to i hope
[11:51] Robert Adams: oh yes.... the conference has been a great forcing function... a lot of things are fixed
[11:51] Joe Radik: /nw nods
[11:51] Joe Radik nods
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, the conference brings big improvements in lots of areas
[11:52] Fearghus.McMahon that reminds me..when you have someone teleporting into your region and you get a chat lag....what setting might change to improve that....if any setting?
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: DId you clossed the bug trashcan before you left ??
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: are these people with lots of attachments?
[11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't think there is any setting you can tweak for that, Fearghus. TPs are just very data heavy operations... OpenSim chugs a little when they happen.
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: lol I bet a lot of improvements woudnt have happened if the conference server was configured properly
[11:53] Dahlia Trimble: the "desktop kernel" issue
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: no, the changes were still necessary
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: Thanks for all the good work from the Developers!
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: I gota run!
[11:53] Fearghus.McMahon hmm not an awful lot i think....someone mentions something with threads so was wondering if could increase that....or maybe a parameter for mono?
[11:53] Dahlia Trimble: they might not have been noticed
[11:53] tx Oh: what was the problem with the kernel?
[11:54] Fearghus.McMahon i don't see the cpu spike at the moment the lag happens
[11:54] logger sewell: Kayaker tc
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I think the desktop kernel was probably only an issue too because of the dual socket 24 core cpu configuration
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: the kernel was either not scheduling properly or not reporting cpu load properly
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: one region looked like it was saturating 24 cores
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: eep
[11:55] tx Oh: hmmm... i usually compile a customizeded kernel
[11:56] tx Oh: does a sim spread over all available cores??
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: well in the end it all worked out :)
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: tx, it's multi-threaded. depends on how many cores mono makes available to it
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: or windows ?
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: there's more then linux.
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: or .net
[11:58] tx Oh: windows? which windows? :-)
[11:58] Dahlia Trimble: I think .net will let the application control it more tho
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: the cores you can set in opensim right ? at least you can set something there im always adjusting
[11:59] Dahlia Trimble: opensim creates many many threads, so will probably use whatever it can get if it needs it
[11:59] Fearghus.McMahon is that dependend on MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU?
[12:00] Dahlia Trimble: not sure
[12:00] tx Oh: i guess
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: we should probably start heading over
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: 1
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: 2
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: 3
[12:00] Dahlia Trimble: the threadpools in opensim can request multiple running threads
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: 4
[12:00] Fearghus.McMahon oh right load test
[12:00] Dahlia Trimble: and theres several instances of the threadpool
[12:00] tx Oh: is there a cheat page for optimized opensim runtime environment?
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: trail and error i think tx
[12:01] Fearghus.McMahon that would be ice tx :)
[12:01] Fearghus.McMahon +n
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok see you all there :)
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: often servers are designed to use one thread per cpu, opensim uses many
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