Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-20

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[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks is online.
 
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks is online.
 
[11:08] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Waves at Dahilia
 
[11:08] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Waves at Dahilia
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[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, there we go
 
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, there we go
 
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]

Latest revision as of 20:49, 24 October 2015

[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks is online.
[11:08] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Waves at Dahilia
[11:08] Teravus Ousley: hallo
[11:08] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi tera
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:08] logger sewell: hey Justin
[11:08] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Hi Justing.. .:)
[11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: so.. whats going on ?
[11:10] Dahlia Trimble: hi hi
[11:10] logger sewell: hi Kayaker
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, nice turnout today!
[11:10] logger sewell: looks like it will be
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I just sent out a group notice, we'll probably be getting that shortly
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: so, any opensim topics to discuss today?
[11:11] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Can someone explain the difference between 0.7.6 Post Fixes and dev/master?
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment there is no difference, they are in sync
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: I submited a new mantis about the returns from llGetRot, I'll go look up the number
[11:12] FreyrOdin: i am in sync to
[11:12] FreyrOdin: hi :)
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: but 0.7.6.-post-fixes will become the brnach for the next release of opensim. It's currently being used as the branch of code to ru nthe conference too
[11:12] Petra Broek: huhu
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: and wich one you go use for the release ?
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: ?
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ah I guess since were not running v2 groups here we wont get the notices from CC grid
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: bummer
[11:13] Petra Broek: i german
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: that wont be as effective as I thought it would
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: oh well im sure some people will get it
[11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Would it be possible to enable the use of unicode characters in the Profile Dialogue, 'About', this is a feature in SL
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: I am seeing myself as a GUN8 in chat
[11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ?
[11:14] FreyrOdin: Hallo Petra
[11:14] Petra Broek: hallo frey..
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: here?
[11:14] FreyrOdin: ja, ich glaub wir sind uns schon mal über den Weg gelaufen
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if your asking me yes here
[11:14] FreyrOdin: and ... hi Andrew
[11:14] Petra Broek: wer wir ? löl
[11:14] Petra Broek: bestimmt
[11:15] logger sewell: hi Andrew
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew
[11:15] FreyrOdin: jupp ... zumindest dein Nick kommt mir bekannt vor
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Mantis # 6743, llGetRot returns the right thing in all condicions EXCEPT when in an attachment on a seated avatar
[11:15] Petra Broek: hihi cool
[11:15] FreyrOdin: Logger ... hi
[11:15] Petra Broek: bin bekannt
[11:15] Petra Broek: haha
[11:15] Petra Broek: sehe aber dich nicht
[11:15] logger sewell: hey freyr
[11:15] Petra Broek: wolke
[11:16] FreyrOdin: ist hier gerade Meeting?
[11:16] Petra Broek: asooooooo
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Well, not all conditions, there is mantis # 5941 where llGetRot also returns the wrong value
[11:16] FreyrOdin: watt, immernoch .. ok, nochn rebake
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: ok
[11:16] Petra Broek: deswegen so voll
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I'm not sure what happened there - your name resolved correctly
[11:16] Petra Broek: gibt es was neues
[11:17] FreyrOdin: fragst du mich?
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya who knows probably from all the grid jumping i do
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: that's quite possible
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there are 4 or 5 distinct grids im using lately
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: names are fine. but the clouds....
[11:17] FreyrOdin: Ich bin das gestern das erste mal seit langem wieder hier :)
[11:17] Petra Broek: spricht ja keiner weiter deutsch
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it would be better for opensi to stop returning any data at all if it can't find the name
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: plus i logged into SL a few times past couple weeks
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: then that bad binding would not persist in cache
[11:17] Petra Broek: asooo
[11:18] FreyrOdin: Warst du gestern nicht auch auf der Party im Club?
[11:18] Petra Broek: weis nichts wo
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally this meeting place would be a little distance from the main landing point ;)
[11:18] FreyrOdin: auf SoundChaser
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Curiously, seated avatars are involved in both cases, so it might be related to mantis #6121 et. all. about seated avatars
[11:18] Petra Broek: achso
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I have 30 avatars logged into CC grid already
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: using Radegast all from 1 computer
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I will be filling up the empty slots with bots from my system today
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: radegast *does* share cache
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: from the memory left on machine i could easily run 60 viewers
[11:19] Teravus Ousley: Anyone edit their terrain by hand recently? Notice improvements?
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally would have done more pre-testing but I wanted to get in the other features I needed
[11:19] Vivian Klees: yes
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I have not tried it yet Teravus, but Fleep has
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and she said major improvement
[11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: nice
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Richardus
[11:20] Teravus Ousley: \o/
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: nice one Teravus
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: 076PF when 076 hasn't event been released yet? I always find that way of doing things odd.
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: we have this debate every time
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: yup. :)
[11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haa
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we're bass akwards
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: although, I'm just commenting on it. Not debating it.
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hey it could be worse we could be doing a release the same week DST changes
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm thinking about making it 0.8 but have not pulled the trigger yet
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I honestly don't want to deal with the extra confusion right now
[11:21] Dahlia Trimble: all I know is I push to master, wherever it goes from there is justin's problem :P
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, why would that be worse?
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: because then we could have 2 arguments simultaneously
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.8 would be nice
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so your thinking 0.8 for next release?
[11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: a lot of improvements have gone in this round
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: or 0.8-dev next?
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I still don't get it, but not a problem.
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I'm thinking next release instead of 0.7.6
[11:23] Vivian Klees: ususally in most projects wouldn't 0.8 mean beta?
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: a lot of stuff has changed, including things like a changed teleport protocol
[11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :D
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: the numbers are arbitrary up until 1.0
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: is melanie still planning on a lot of "donations" after the next release?
[11:23] Teravus Ousley: Wherever that news slide came from... they think that you like expensive cars
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yes Dahlia
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Vivian, the numbers don't always indicate alpha vs. beta.]
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I know shes itching to get vehicle border crossing in
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: before someone else attempts it
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: intresstin. 0.8 for next release. especialy when bullet get default
[11:24] Dahlia Trimble: maybe how well they work might influence the next release?
[11:25] Vivian Klees: when Bullet becomes default rip out the ode code
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: lets get 0.7.6 first as release :O
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think ODE will go away
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: why on earth would one want to do that?
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I would be against that
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, I didn't meant it like that, bit stressed atm
[11:26] Richardus Raymaker: no vivian, there are people that want ode. the say bullet works bad on there system cpu usage. well when o.87.6 is out bullet get deafult here
[11:26] Vivian Klees: omg crossa a region running bullet and the other on ode
[11:26] Robert Adams: I need vehicle crossing before the middle of September... I might make Melanie's life more difficult and start adding it
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie is just waiting on release Robert
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: please don't before the next release
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: she was asked not to submit it
[11:26] Dahlia Trimble: why on earth would anyone take out ODE????
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: well I understand vivians point
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: but what should happen is ODE should be improved
[11:27] Richardus Raymaker: grin robert. i made a small post on mailinglist what where written on blog
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: make border crossing better
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: removing it is to extreme
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: I still use ODE on some sims
[11:27] Richardus Raymaker: then make mega regions betetr nebadon
[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: One needs ODE as a fallback for a long time
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason to not improve ODE still too
[11:27] Robert Adams: ODE will always be there .... just like BasicPhysics :)
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect border crossing is not really a problem with ODE itself
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but other factors
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: the factors you cant fix
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: isn't melanie still using ODE anyway?
[11:28] Robert Adams: most of the border crossing changes are in the simulator
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: yes they are using ODE in Avination
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: SL have still some crossing delay
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but i suspect she eventually wants to move to Bullet also
[11:28] Teravus Ousley: Melanie has her own flavor of the ODEPlugin that ubit manages
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it sounds like a lot of changes to entity crossing
[11:28] Robert Adams: the physics engine just needs to be unloaded and loaded
[11:29] Robert Adams: should be able to cross between ODE and BulletSim regions
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: SL has terrible border crossings if you have a lot of scripted attachments
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: in sl the seems to unsit avatars , cross them to new sim and then resit. thats what i readed
[11:29] Robert Adams: and that is how it will work in OpenSim
[11:30] Robert Adams: that's the most general solution... other situations can be optimized as special cases
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: but.. you still have to 10-200ms network delay
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: When that unseat happejns, with the changed link message be bypassed?
[11:30] Robert Adams: yes Kayaker, that's one of the mods that has to happen... it isn't really an 'unsit'
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: well, for testing i can build as normal regions. switch it to mega to paly with verhicles. seems to work fine. and sofar i know the regions still are seperate ones with prims.
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: is it the case that telepoerting to a megaregions from a normal region is now broken with the latest code?
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: ??? i dont hope
[11:32] Mindy.Star @92.243.26.0:8002: hello all
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: hi MindyStar
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: hello mindy
[11:33] Shirley Marquez: hi, Mindy
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: someone retported that but i haven't tested after the most recent fixes yet
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: and tbh I didn't get a chance to test before either
[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensmi topics?
[11:35] Teravus Ousley: http://nooooooooooooooo.com/
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble clicks...
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: not for now. working on tool for (my) opensim region.
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I would like to remind everyone we still need more Volunteers for the Community Conference
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey doesn't risk running flash because some stuff is starting to bluescreen him
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: so if your interested please let us know, and if you can spread the word
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: I really need to update from win xp...
[11:36] Shirley Marquez: I'm already in, Nebadon :)
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, what sort of help is still needed?
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: awesome Shirley!
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we need people to stream via UStream
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: omg , now i understand why you have soem problems justin
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we need greeters and moderators
[11:37] Shirley Marquez: OpenSim is still relatively new to me but I'm an SL expert, going to spend some time over here in the next few weeks to come up to speed
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, you're going to hit all the bugs ;)
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: that kayaker always reminds us about ;) (joking)
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2013/conference-planning-update-last-call-for-sponsors-volunteers-needed/
[11:37] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: no justing ..thats called creative workaround.
[11:37] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: lol
[11:38] Shirley Marquez: I'm probably going to be moderating and/or greeting, so I need to get familiar with all the viewers people are likely to use
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: woohoo i got all 40 of my avatars logged into Keynotes
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: 10 per region
[11:38] Shirley Marquez: especially Singularity - I haven't used a viewer with the V1 UI for ages
[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: ssst nebadon, dont say it to load you can scare them away
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: shirley: It will be quite a wide variety - Singularity, Firestorm of course, but people are still using older ones like Imprudence
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: that's with radegast now?
[11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think some people might even use hippo on occasion
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: 40 avatars from one person? :)
[11:39] Shirley Marquez: and don't forget Kokua, though that should be easy enough for me since it's basically an LL viewer
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: if they use imprudence they wont see any of the regions because they are all mesh
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: i use kokua. but pretty can say. it sucks.. things are not logic to use , some weird things. and chui is disatser
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: good replacements for Imprudence are Singularity and Cool Viewer
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: then FS better choice
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: is there any mesh on the conference grid?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a lot
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Keynotes are almost 100% mesh
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: id say like 95%
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: oh really? I didn't know that....
[11:41] Robert Adams: I need to find a way to merge Singularity and Firestorm... there are features in each that I like
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: is that for perf reasons?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: not really, its just fancier
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:41] Shirley Marquez: Richardus, I'm used to the LL viewer over in that other place, so Kokua won't throw me, and I actually like CHUI
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: much nicer quality stuff available with mesh
[11:41] Shirley Marquez: no accounting for taste :)
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, so I guess we won't be seeing a lot of imprudence....
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully not
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: id like to see Imprudence go away
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: i know people that still keep stuck on imprudence
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: most of the stuff in the keynotes could be made with prims and look the same
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear it still performs a lot better on older hardware
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: depends on the build
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i guess, Singularity should run just as well honestly
[11:42] Vivian Klees: the only thing in imp worth keeping around is import/export
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: you might need to tone down the settings
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but you can make Singularity run as well as Imprudence
[11:42] Shirley Marquez: the new rendering code leans a lot more heavily on OpenGL - so it's better if you've got the hardware, worse if you don't
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Vivian, same here. I haven't re-exported some things using Singularity yet.
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: heck if you shut off all the fancy stuff V3 will run as good too
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats the only really good reason to keep Imprudence around
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the vast amount of exported XML
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: is there really that much?
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but as far as an everyday use viewer it needs to go away
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: opensim-creations has a ton
[11:43] Vivian Klees: well exporting collada from singularity is nice
[11:43] Teravus Ousley: They shouldda used OpenSim Archives :)
[11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya problem is
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Too bad the XML formats weren't the same. So much for XML being some sort of "universal" data format.
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: not everyone has access to a region console
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: ease of use is a seductive thing
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: hence the popularity of XML
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: ewwww XML
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: *blech*
[11:44] Kayaker Magic: LOL
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I often feel that way.
[11:44] Teravus Ousley: To be clear, Imprudence should have used OpenSim Archives for import/export :)
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: u never good really good results with xml with textures. it works fine to export balnk thing to sl to mesh it :O
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: yes that would be awesome
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you the next Diva Wifi release
[11:44] Shirley Marquez: were they available yet when they did the implementation, Teravus?
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: will have the ability to uploads IARs via the website
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: well, IARs maybe, but they weren't available nack in that time frame afair
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: so that will be a big boost for people running their own mini grids
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and even medium size grids running wifi
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: and there's a lot of bizarre arbitrary opensim-ness within the data formats
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: next release I want to make the built-in de-duping asset store the standard
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:46] Teravus Ousley: So now, there's arbitrary opensim-ness and arbitrary imprudence-ness :)
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I've been using it for a long time with no issues, though not very heavily I admit
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: heh yes
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: that means no double assets anymore ? and does that remove doubles to ?
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: effectively, doubles are removed over time
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: thats very nice tool
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: with the deduping asset store, it's possible to chain the old asset store
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: that would be nice to have.
[11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that one is saving the data to the database?
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: so when old assets are retrieved which aren't yet in the deduped store, they are migrated to the deduping store at that poitn
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes, still
[11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: good
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: and i heared soem cracking about going up with next round to new .net ?
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I don't see how we could beat the database experts at store - retrieve performance
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm, not the latest
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, next release will see an update to min version of mono, which effectively implies updating the .net
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, will that be a system similar to the Ruby system (can't remember its name) and/or the one I was working on?
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: move from 3.5 to 4.0
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: but not the latest .net
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: finaly
[11:48] Shirley Marquez: if you ever did you should go into the database business, more money there :)
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: it's similar but not meant to be as featurefull as sras. It's meant as a good basic default option
[11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol
[11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ellisim
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, ok. Perhaps more like what I was working on.
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I've read a lot on the debate between storing on filesystem vs database for big blobgs and there doesn't seem to be adefinitive solution
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: or conclusion
[11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: there was a streaming adapter for a while, but is gone now...
[11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it was in MariaDB
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be nice to have deduping regardless of whether you still store blobs in the DB or on the file system.
[11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that would probably help a lot.
[11:50] Teravus Ousley has met several DB people who hate it when devs store images in db :)
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: there are some fancy filesystems which do deduping automatically, though I haven't investigated closely
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, I bet you can find other DB admins that might say the opposite. :)
[11:51] Teravus Ousley: So far, no. :)
[11:51] Teravus Ousley: but It's a small sample
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: they would have a fit if they knew what we did :)
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: Teravus if you store blobs in seperate database its more easy to backup. :) and my feeling say .. fatser then dig into 50.000 images on hdd
[11:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hah
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: but seperate tetxures on disk have other good things to
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: 61
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: oops
[11:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 42
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: any truth to the rumour that modifying a notecard or script always saves a new asset to the db?
[11:53] Teravus Ousley: The counter to that, naturally, is that there's an extensive amount of CPU, IO and network bandwidth wasted querying a database for an image
[11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes
[11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it creates a new asset
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't that a waste?
[11:54] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: hi everybody
[11:54] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not i fyou have just given a copy to another user before modifying it
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hello Fearghus
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: You would wind up with lots of dead copies of NC's/scripts in the db no one is using.
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: in sl it created a new notecard / scipt. i understand from question in the past the opensim is not doing that
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: hi fearghus
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle, it should be possible to reap very dead data from the asset db using timestamps
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: What if I create a script, then modify it? If I'm the only one who has it, it doesn't make sense to make a new asset.
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew. how many dead things you think osgrid have in database
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so if something hasn't been accessed for more than 2 years, one could risk reaping it
[11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Mic made something like that didn't he Robert?
[11:55] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev          23ca1f8: 2013-08-09 18:27:26 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks doesn't remember if there are timestamps in the db to indicate when an asset was last accessed.
[11:56] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: not accessed....means every time an inventory loads all assets for that are accessed so resetting the timestamp?
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: not every time, but if a certain time has passed, e.g. a month
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: there's no point incurring the code of updating the database on every single asset access
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: we already have 63 avatars in the load test
[11:57] Shirley Marquez: they're about to do a load test for OSCC, I'm going to jump over there
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: also, that assumes it isn't served by the region's local asset cache first
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: and what about objects you dont kepe in inventory because reasons but on sim (no copy)
[11:57] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: ah ok i get it , makes sense
[11:57] Teravus Ousley: well, if we're talking about assets now...
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: cost,. not code
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: knew that was what you meant justin
[11:57] Teravus Ousley: Why not simply implement a reference counter estimation...
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: shirley: yeah. will go over very shortly
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: ter: ref counter estimation?
[11:58] Teravus Ousley: Like.. some data is sent to the asset server to test if it's a new reference for something in world
[11:58] Teravus Ousley: ..If it is, increment an int on the asset
[11:58] Teravus Ousley: when it gets deleted.... decrement an int on the asset
[11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: foreign keys?
[11:59] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: btw....ok to ask about a possible tp issue when we're on the load test regions?...not want to disturb the asset talk now ;)
[11:59] Teravus Ousley: It gives an estimation of how many references are left in world.... giving you a good idea of what the risk of deleting something is.
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: sure, though I personally will be very busy monitoring the regions
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, time to go?
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya lets do this
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: already quite a crowd over there
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: Seems like it. Just wanted to plant that reference counter idea in your head
[12:00] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: thats ok justin I have no rush with it ;)
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: if you throw the slurl
[12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: taking a long time to TP from my dev grid
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 4
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: any of those regions
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: I would like to know sometime because teleport issues needed to be fixed before the release occurs
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: did fix some issues last week but there could well be more
[12:01] Second Life: Region found!
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, there we go
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