Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-14
From OpenSimulator
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[11:02] Erkunder1965 Test1: oh suche ich später im Netz | [11:02] Erkunder1965 Test1: oh suche ich später im Netz | ||
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: never seen this error before "did not find presence before time-out | [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: never seen this error before "did not find presence before time-out | ||
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[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: good luck everyone | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: good luck everyone | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
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+ | [10:59] Teravus Ousley: greets | ||
+ | [10:59] Now playing: Farbrausch - fr08 .the .product | ||
+ | [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello | ||
+ | [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi everone | ||
+ | [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, The stair climbing patch you did was for git master. I'd like to have that in 075PF but one of the BulletSim files patched in master doesn't exist in 075PF. | ||
+ | [11:00] logger sewell: hey all | ||
+ | [11:00] Robert Adams: which file is that, Andrew? | ||
+ | [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, BSAvatarActorMove.cs | ||
+ | [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi bluewall | ||
+ | [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi | ||
+ | [11:02] Robert Adams: Andrew, that probably means all the actor additions are missing... cherry picking might not be a solution | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, no, a cherry pick failed complete. One file that doesn't exist and rejects on all the other changes. | ||
+ | [11:03] Robert Adams: a more radical solution would be to take the whole BulletSim tree and drop it in your system (Region/Physics/BulletSPlugin) | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Since the one file is missing I can't (at the moment) do a manual patch. | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I thought about doing that. | ||
+ | [11:03] Robert Adams: BulletSim is fairly independent | ||
+ | [11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods | ||
+ | [11:04] Robert Adams: remember to get the DLLs and SOs also... the C++ code changed also | ||
+ | [11:04] Teravus Ousley: yay for physics separation | ||
+ | [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, indeeed | ||
+ | [11:04] Teravus Ousley: (there are some sizable challenges as a result of that separation.. but.. tradeoffs :)) | ||
+ | [11:04] logger sewell: Hi Kayaker | ||
+ | [11:04] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody | ||
+ | [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, everyone! | ||
+ | [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Uhmm iis bullet working on linux ? | ||
+ | [11:05] Robert Adams: Richardus, yes but there have been some library dependency problems on some Linux distributions | ||
+ | [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, It works as well as BulletSim works. I did do a brief test un der Linux. | ||
+ | [11:05] Fearghus McMahon: i got one region running with bulletsim on centos | ||
+ | [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: ok. at some point i can check it. right now fighting with desktops :O | ||
+ | [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there was some thing missing that caused an issue with BulletSim use and Linux/mono | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is running Bulletsim | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: well it would be opensuse here | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb | ||
+ | [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux Mint for me. | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: all of my regions are on OpenSuse | ||
+ | [11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to mostly work when I'vtried it recently. Had to compile it myself though, CentOS 5 doesn't seem to like the default ones | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think there may be issues on 32 bit still Robert? | ||
+ | [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or was that fixed? | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: always compile opensim on linux | ||
+ | [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I could tell you. I'm only running 32-bit Linux | ||
+ | [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably some of the native system libraries and the bullet dll? | ||
+ | [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: 32bit. who is useing that ^^ | ||
+ | [11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: 32-bit is soo last decade. :P | ||
+ | [11:07] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn uses 32-bit Linux. :) | ||
+ | [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Bulletsim good on Fedora 32 and 64 bit | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well It was broken on 64 bit, then Robert fixed that, and then after that reports came in that 32 bit was broken | ||
+ | [11:07] Teravus Ousley: I have a virtual PC on my Mac that uses 32 bit :P | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: are you guys running master git? | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: or latest OSgrid release? | ||
+ | [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I am and will continue to do so until such time as you can run a 64-bit machine without need for any 32-bit libraries. | ||
+ | [11:07] Fearghus McMahon: i've never compiled opensim onlinux yet...just using the osgrid download so far | ||
+ | [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: this break was very recent | ||
+ | [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: git master here | ||
+ | [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: git master | ||
+ | [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok | ||
+ | [11:08] Robert Adams: the glibc libraries have been getting updated recently but the newer version aren't in all distributions yet | ||
+ | [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably got fixed | ||
+ | [11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: I usually run master | ||
+ | [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: most i run still 0.7.5 with one 0.7.6dev sandback. but running behind. still setting up things | ||
+ | [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, which version of glibc? | ||
+ | [11:08] Robert Adams: so I have to be careful about libraries needed | ||
+ | [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some distros are slow to change | ||
+ | [11:09] Robert Adams: glibc 2.14 has an updated memcpy.... most distributions don't have it yet | ||
+ | [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some distros like OpenSuse 11.4 are no longer being updated | ||
+ | [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... glibc or just glib? | ||
+ | [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people could possibly build the bullet libs from source if they fail | ||
+ | [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy for me to upgrade either | ||
+ | [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Debian Stable is often problematic in that fashion. | ||
+ | [11:09] Robert Adams: there is also updates to glibcxx (to 3.9, I think) | ||
+ | [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, will it compile on the older ones? | ||
+ | [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: well soem hoster that stil serve r11.4 is running behind. start to work with 12,3 myself | ||
+ | [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have glibc installed on my machine | ||
+ | [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: how can i check wich clib is installed ? | ||
+ | [11:11] Robert Adams: Bluewall, it does compile on the older ones... my problem is that my build environment keeps linking to the latest-and-greatest then the binaries don't work on the older distributions | ||
+ | [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhh glib :O | ||
+ | [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, cool. I'm thinking about users's compilting it on their systems in case it fails | ||
+ | [11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Rich: Your distro's package manager might tell you. | ||
+ | [11:11] Fearghus McMahon: heya justin | ||
+ | [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think most people dont' understand the way pinvoke works | ||
+ | [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi feargus, folks. sorry I'm late | ||
+ | [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin | ||
+ | [11:12] Robert Adams: Bluewall, that works and I know of some who have done that | ||
+ | [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin | ||
+ | [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, then it's good that there is a workaround | ||
+ | [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia | ||
+ | [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: <--- Materials Girl | ||
+ | [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi | ||
+ | [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: lol | ||
+ | [11:14] Teravus Ousley: materials girl.. yes :) | ||
+ | [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will those work on mesh avatars? | ||
+ | [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Only glibc files I have are part of cross-compilers I have installed. | ||
+ | [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: probably | ||
+ | [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woot | ||
+ | [11:14] Robert Adams: Justin, what is the state of SOP dynamic properties... are they completed and usable? | ||
+ | [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: glibc v2.17-4.4.1 if i have the right one on opensuse 12.3 | ||
+ | [11:14] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders why glibc isn't showing up in Synaptic. | ||
+ | [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: I used them | ||
+ | [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they exist, but they may still need to change in response to actual usage | ||
+ | [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, dahlia has taken the brave step | ||
+ | [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: materials are stored there | ||
+ | [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: however, I think any changes will probably relate to how data is stored retrieved rather than data formats | ||
+ | [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: What sort of properties are dynamic? | ||
+ | [11:15] Robert Adams: I was going to start using them to store extra physics properties (like user set center-of-mass) | ||
+ | [11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: If you apply materials to a mesh avatar, you can't leave your sim, unless you want to reapply the materials every time you return to it or another materials enabled simulator. ;) | ||
+ | [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: you can add a OSDMap to a SOP | ||
+ | [11:16] Teravus Ousley: haha, anything you don't want to write a database connector and migration for? :D | ||
+ | [11:16] Robert Adams: just wondered if you thought the design had settled down or whether they were about to change | ||
+ | [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, latest version should fix that | ||
+ | [11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, Dahlia. :) | ||
+ | [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think data format change would only occur if actual use found some significant problem with how it's being done at the moment | ||
+ | [11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Are OARs/IARs working with materials too? I saw a commit regarding that. When I tested it, I couldn't get it to work, though. | ||
+ | [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: only reason it's "experimental" now is that LL may change it, or if something is not working or changes in dynamic attributes | ||
+ | [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I think you could probably go ahead and use it | ||
+ | [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: we need some rules about naming though | ||
+ | [11:17] Robert Adams: are the dynamic properties serialized to the DB and OAR/IAR files? | ||
+ | [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes | ||
+ | [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes. Though if they reference assets then those currently need code in UUIDGatherer to scan and collect them | ||
+ | [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: which I want to make modularizable sometime soon | ||
+ | [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: question, soemone fund it and i see it to. why does "land show" only display 252,252,0 as result. also scipt parcel divide seems to go wrong | ||
+ | [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in what way are these different from prim properties? | ||
+ | [11:18] Robert Adams: excellent | ||
+ | [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: and maybe some rules enforcement, like in a script cant write anything that starts with 'OS:" | ||
+ | [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: best not to store large chunks of data in them though. Largue chunks should probably remain in assets | ||
+ | [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that might be an idea | ||
+ | [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: though I can also imagine an argument for allowing scripts to do that as a communicaton mechanism with modules | ||
+ | [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6608 | ||
+ | [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: then you get into the hairness about concurrency | ||
+ | [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: ya but modules could read anything | ||
+ | [11:20] Robert Adams: the JSONStore is the best inter-script comm system... it has changed events and locking and all that's needed for taht | ||
+ | [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not a bug | ||
+ | [11:20] Teravus Ousley: I know.. we should have comprehensive permissions trees on every node *wink* | ||
+ | [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yeah, mic put in a hack to have the SOP dynattrs as the backing store for JSONStore | ||
+ | [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ? ok, justin... still weird.. | ||
+ | [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: minimum land parcel square is 4 meters | ||
+ | [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: but I see your point, so maybe it's something to consider | ||
+ | [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: a scene-level DynAttrs would be kinda cool too :) *hint* | ||
+ | [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: someone else found it. only note it. | ||
+ | [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: melanie previous put in a key:value store for regions but that's structurally different | ||
+ | [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a dynattrs for scene presence could also be a good idea too | ||
+ | [11:22] Robert Adams: Dahlia, at which level? parcel, region, ?? | ||
+ | [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh whats it called? | ||
+ | [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: would allow npc stuff to be stored there, for instance, rather than in parallel data structures | ||
+ | [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: at top level of the scene | ||
+ | [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: something not tied to any object in the scene | ||
+ | [11:23] Robert Adams: 'scene' as in OS simulator level? | ||
+ | [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: yes | ||
+ | [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: or region level | ||
+ | [11:23] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley associates 'scene level' with Scene.cs in OpenSim.Region.Framework | ||
+ | [11:23] Robert Adams: you can do that with JSONStore.... it can be used just as a named store that scripts can reference | ||
+ | [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I mean a persistant one | ||
+ | [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: anyway I didnt really need it, just occured to me while doing the materials stuff that it might be a nice feature | ||
+ | [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: look at GetExtraSetting(), StoreExtraSetting(), RemoveExtraSetting() on Scene | ||
+ | [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: ty | ||
+ | [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I am wary of dynamic attributes. It makes things easier than changing the database but I think we need to watch for any efficiency issues | ||
+ | [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and currently the need to lock the entire structure on any data change is pretty awkward | ||
+ | [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could linq be used with all this? | ||
+ | [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know | ||
+ | [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe if one were to write the required glue | ||
+ | [11:28] Teravus Ousley: we don't really use much linq in opensim :) | ||
+ | [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm not an expert on it, I have just come across it a few times | ||
+ | [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems like a way to make handling data generic | ||
+ | [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: justin, what if the locks were in getters and setters? | ||
+ | [11:29] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley uses it for querying object data collections in work.. but hasn't used it in OpenSimulator. | ||
+ | [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe for getting/setting an entire OSDMap, but that would still leave you vulnerable to concurrency issues of changing settings within the map | ||
+ | [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: A while back we talked about upping the tools from 3.5 | ||
+ | [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that once the next Debian is released | ||
+ | [11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Dahlia ran into an issue with default parameters that would have worked if we were on 4.0 | ||
+ | [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: lol debian releases are rare | ||
+ | [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, wikipedia is saying may 4th ot 5th 2013 :) | ||
+ | [11:31] Teravus Ousley: Maybe, if instead of a single lock on that collection.. there's multiple lock spaces | ||
+ | [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: yeah, I was thinking along those lines - wanted to see what it looked like under 'real' usage first | ||
+ | [11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 3ce1981: 2013-04-29 22:21:57 +0100 (Unix/Mono) | ||
+ | [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: another alternative is to have 'dynamic objects' instead of attributes | ||
+ | [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which get serialized whenever the sop is seralized and deserialized when it's deserialized | ||
+ | [11:33] Teravus Ousley: Early optimization is bad :) yes. | ||
+ | [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I saw those but didnt know what they were | ||
+ | [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that way modules, could deal with first class objects and we concurrency could be simpler, I think | ||
+ | [11:33] Robert Adams: BulletSim will have one OSDMap with values that are updated by a region module based on script functions | ||
+ | [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's more tomwards the entity:component approach I think | ||
+ | [11:33] Teravus Ousley: If we really need to do something about it, we could always implement a 'first letter locking mechanism' hack that.. has a separate lock object for the first letter of the namespace | ||
+ | [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: would any object need serialization methods? | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I was thinking that modules could register for the ser/deser event and handle it however they like | ||
+ | [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh | ||
+ | [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: is that the way it works now? | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they could choose how to use the data to reconstitute objects which they would add to a generic dictionary on sop | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no | ||
+ | [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, on serializatio nwe simply use generic libomv code to serialized the OSDMap | ||
+ | [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I meant on the dynamic objects | ||
+ | [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: haven't implemented it yet :) | ||
+ | [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: oh thought I saw it in code | ||
+ | [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not nice to do since it involves some adjustment of our existing serialized code | ||
+ | [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: serialization code | ||
+ | [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: there was DynAttrs and DynObjects | ||
+ | [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, haven't completed DynObjects | ||
+ | [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok | ||
+ | [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but DynAttrs would be continue to be valid | ||
+ | [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: they would remain the persistent store | ||
+ | [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: so when completed it would be backward compatible | ||
+ | [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: oh so currently DynObjects stores System.Object references? | ||
+ | [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes | ||
+ | [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: k | ||
+ | [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to look at optimizatio nfor DynAttrs since having an extra DAMap for every SOP may not be trivial | ||
+ | [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have 40000 SOPS for instance, that's an extra 40000 DynAttr objects | ||
+ | [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: probably would want an ICOmponent interface that defines a few methods like for serialization and message handling | ||
+ | [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: would be better if they could be null if not used, but that's a little awkward to do I think | ||
+ | [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think OSDMaps use much space if unused | ||
+ | [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I need to get a better sense of just how much memory is used by mono/.net oibjcts | ||
+ | [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: never really delved into that space | ||
+ | [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: but a null reference for a map might work | ||
+ | [11:41] Teravus Ousley: It's fun to keep a lot of texture byte[] references around. | ||
+ | [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh | ||
+ | [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: are byte[] references? | ||
+ | [11:42] Teravus Ousley: The array is a reference | ||
+ | [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: Ive seen them get borked when they fall out of a using() scope | ||
+ | [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, perhaps we should see if there are any other opensimulator questions for the remaining 20 mins | ||
+ | [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody? | ||
+ | [11:43] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley wakes up people | ||
+ | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I was able to confirm that objects rezed from tarash | ||
+ | [11:44] logger sewell: Justin do have any idea when the 7.6 will be out ? | ||
+ | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: err Trash* | ||
+ | [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: I'm hioping to start the process soon but there are a few issues I want to look at first | ||
+ | [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantisa bout llGetTime() returning negative numbers and numbers in the past, but | ||
+ | [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an item directly from your trash can, anyone who takes a copy the item goes back to trash can, this is impropper | ||
+ | [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'm waiting to try a newer Mono to see if that fixes it | ||
+ | [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: like exactly why changing the thread pool makes certain issues with ghost avatars go away | ||
+ | [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: that bug is very old nebadon. | ||
+ | [11:44] logger sewell: ok thanks | ||
+ | [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: back to the rezzer's trashcan? | ||
+ | [11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative get time is pretty cool. That sounds like it may have something to do with Environment.Tickcount wraparound | ||
+ | [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: actually I think it's a mono bug :) | ||
+ | [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen that trashcan bug between 0.74 and 0.7.5 for first time | ||
+ | [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, the negative time is always just about 3600 seconts in the past | ||
+ | [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: the same one that was causing diva to see the sun jump around at regular intervals | ||
+ | [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which was fixed in 2.10.6 or later I think | ||
+ | [11:46] Teravus Ousley: oh, nifty.. and here I thought that was a joke that sdague was playing from before :) | ||
+ | [11:46] Robert Adams: it's not April 1st | ||
+ | [11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 | ||
+ | [11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have mono 2.10.6, supposed to be fixed in 2.10.8 | ||
+ | [11:46] Lani Global: Here is a curiosity... for most of this year, in my inventory, I often see items I created and gave away, but with other people's ownership. Perhaps that is related? | ||
+ | [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no it seems to go to whoever takes its trash | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even if I send them a copy | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to objects | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you | ||
+ | [11:47] Teravus Ousley: Could be two things.. could be a stored folder.. or the 'delete object' routine is kicking in and sending it to trash | ||
+ | [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: try taking a copy of that red box | ||
+ | [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Is Mono 3.0 working with opensim now? | ||
+ | [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: could you name it something other than primitive? :0 | ||
+ | [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it went to "My Suitcase" | ||
+ | [11:48] Fearghus McMahon: my regions run on mono 3.6 or 7 now i think Kayaker | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there you go | ||
+ | [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i have seen iand i think its something todo with the --profile --home option in iar / oar that perms got lost when you load it on other place. not sure if thats a bug with HG ? | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surpising Bluewall. your HG | ||
+ | [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: yes, I believe it works well, thuogh still not with the newer garbage collector | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything is forced to suitcase | ||
+ | [11:48] Teravus Ousley: It ended up in lost and found | ||
+ | [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wanted to see if it would fail | ||
+ | [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it either goes to lost and found | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: or trash | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should never do either of those things | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should go to objects | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: same thing happens if I send this object to someone | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they cant find it | ||
+ | [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I took a copy but it doesn't show up in my inventory | ||
+ | [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: it appears in lost & found nebadon | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: something very wrong | ||
+ | [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should always go to Objects | ||
+ | [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ok, what if you put it in a folder named "Stuff" and the revieving person has a folder named "Stuff" will it go there? | ||
+ | [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: but i cant do anything with it. not delete not move | ||
+ | [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... in Singularity 1.8.0 it shows up in Lost and Found for just a second then disappears. | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I think something similar happens | ||
+ | [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i use old astra | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if I rez an object from a folder in my inventory | ||
+ | [11:50] Fearghus McMahon: kayaker, only issue i've had was teleporting out of my region would crash it sometimes...but that i have not seen yet with the latest osgrid release | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and then delete that folder | ||
+ | [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Astra Viewer 1.6.5 (3) | ||
+ | [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: The red cube gets lost completely on a take. | ||
+ | [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the time no one can find it | ||
+ | [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Does this also happen with a direct offer of inventory to another person? Is it only objects, or does it occur with other assets such as textures or clothing? | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but it should be either in one of the 2 places | ||
+ | [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see it. but no control on it | ||
+ | [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can't find it either. Inventory moves for a moment but then moves back | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have only seen this happen with items you can rez | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: objects | ||
+ | [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this is only stuff retrieved back from trash? | ||
+ | [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: It goes to L&F but then immediately disappears from that folder and a search doesn't turn it up anywhere in inventory. | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right | ||
+ | [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what starts it is i rez it directly from trash to ground | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then basically from that point on its ruined | ||
+ | [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew. maby my viewer is buggy i still see it. but i think its gone | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: unless i move it to objects | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then rez it again | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that fixes it | ||
+ | [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does sound like some last rezzed from inventory folder issue | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I am almost certain its been this way for years | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just no ones really said anything about it | ||
+ | [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but lately its really getting on my nerves | ||
+ | [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what if the reciever has a folder named the same as the one you take it from? | ||
+ | [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I noticed that in Avination and said something about it there but it was supposed to be the "correct behaviour" | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think that matters | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: because its all UUID references | ||
+ | [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: none of our rountines rely on folder naming | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the uuids would never match | ||
+ | [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: to land back in trash. | ||
+ | [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from some iar/oar commands | ||
+ | [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it is looking for "Trash" here, but then goes to "My Suitcase" | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think whats happening is the lastfolder uuid is not found | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it sends it to lost and found | ||
+ | [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is wrong | ||
+ | [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i think i mentoined that problems month ago already. or soemthing like that. only never seen it so bad as now | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i am assuming its called lastfolder | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how we reference that | ||
+ | [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, probably that should get set back to UUID.Zero which I think would trigger it to go in the correct 'type' folder | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: didnt dig that deep | ||
+ | [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. Objects for objects | ||
+ | [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Perhaps it is looking for the trash folder based on the UUID of the owner who rezzed it and a folder by the same name may exist in someone elses inventory but they would have a different UUID | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right | ||
+ | [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds sane Justin | ||
+ | [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though that wouldn't work for the original rezzer | ||
+ | [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so possibly there needs to be code to ignore the last folder if the user is not the object 'owner' | ||
+ | [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well nothing you ever take or receive should ever automatically go to lost and found or trash | ||
+ | [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not ever | ||
+ | [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: it would be good if opensim looks what type of object ,texture, photo, objetc and put it there for the new owner | ||
+ | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: only time that happens is if you decline | ||
+ | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it gets moved there | ||
+ | [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise objects should always go to Objects folder no matter what | ||
+ | [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, did you get any further with setting avatar properties via llSetLinkParams() and similar? | ||
+ | [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon | ||
+ | [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not much, I have looked into it a couple of times | ||
+ | [11:57] Lani Global: I've seen many things I take or copy go to Lost and Found | ||
+ | [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I might get a chance myself soon, though it's queued behind a bunch of other things | ||
+ | [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't want to tread on any work you may already have done | ||
+ | [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see you have mode several things to support it | ||
+ | [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: mode? | ||
+ | [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have only looked so far | ||
+ | [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohh, "made" | ||
+ | [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I did clean up a bunch of stuff when doing the get portion | ||
+ | [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. common routines to get the avatar correctly for a given link number | ||
+ | [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think you have some methods to get SEO | ||
+ | [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lists of them | ||
+ | [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: search engine optimization? | ||
+ | [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Scene Entity Obj | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think | ||
+ | [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I was thinking search engine optimization :-) | ||
+ | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, you mena sop :) | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the base | ||
+ | [12:00] Teravus Ousley: right, the base type | ||
+ | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ISceneEntity and similar | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, that | ||
+ | [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: our horrific crappy interface hiearchy :) | ||
+ | [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: @.@ | ||
+ | [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go eat. Thanks for the meeting, folks | ||
+ | [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that works, but what I didn't want to do is check everything coming through there to from a bottleneck | ||
+ | [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Loger, do you know what version of Mono is running on VH? | ||
+ | [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thank you JCC | ||
+ | [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: bon appetit Justin | ||
+ | [12:01] Robert Adams: bye all | ||
+ | [12:01] Teravus Ousley: byese | ||
+ | [12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves | ||
+ | [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: c ya robert | ||
+ | [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Robert, thanks | ||
+ | [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin | ||
+ | [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if 076 is "coming soon", I might as well wait instead of dropping BS from master in to 075PF | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I just also confirmed | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an object from a folder | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then delete that folder | ||
+ | [12:02] Lani Global: thank you Justin! | ||
+ | [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and take a copy of that item it goes to trash or lost and found also | ||
+ | [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: major borkage | ||
+ | [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wonder this is happening so much | ||
+ | [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that makes sense | ||
+ | [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I mean, it shouldn't do that | ||
+ | [12:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Dahlia: the latest group offerings have group chat working, provided your all on the same sim. That was tested in a HG ebvironment | ||
+ | [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but at least it's a repro | ||
+ | </pre> | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | [[Category:Office Hour Logs]] |
Revision as of 21:42, 24 October 2015
[11:02] Erkunder1965 Test1: oh suche ich später im Netz [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: never seen this error before "did not find presence before time-out [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:03] Erkunder1965 Test1: schreibe ich mier auf erst hatte viel mühe meine figur wieder her zu stellen [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [11:03] BlueWall Slade: hello [11:03] Equus Staedler: Hi [11:03] Chrisx Vortex: hi [11:03] Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin [11:03] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone [11:03] tx Oh: hi justin [11:03] BlueWall Slade: hello [11:03] Arielle Popstar: Hi Andrew [11:03] tx Oh: hello all :-) [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi Tx and Neb [11:05] Richardus Raymaker is online. [11:05] Arielle Popstar: still planning the test for a\fter the meeting Neb? [11:06] Erkunder1965 Test1: so aufgeschrieben meine Nerven wegen Figur ziemlich zerfetzt gewesen mann steht vohr anderen als dum da wenn mann es nicht schaft u als Kröhnung auch noch viewerzusammenbruch gehabt [11:06] BlueWall Slade: Hi Teravus [11:06] Teravus Ousley: Hello [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey doesn't have his headset plugged in yet :) [11:06] vegaslon plutonian: wow that is the first time that has worked for me in osgrid [11:06] Fly Man: You're not missing anything :) [11:07] Equus Staedler: Heard fine [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: why do you need a headset for a meeting that uses typed text? [11:07] Chrisx Vortex: lol [11:07] Fly Man laughs at Ter [11:07] tx Oh: headset? is this meeting with voice? [11:07] Equus Staedler: I am not :) [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: no, primary channel is text [11:07] Fly Man: Sure Teravus, you should make jingles for Radio :D [11:07] Teravus Ousley: No, voice is just back channel talk. [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: vegas, first time what worked for ou? [11:07] vegaslon plutonian: voice [11:08] Teravus Ousley: Nothing pertinent to the meeting [11:08] BlueWall Slade: librravox? [11:08] Fly Man: Ahh, Robert is here as well [11:08] Dahlia Trimble is offline. [11:08] Fly Man smiles [11:09] Richardus Raymaker is offline. [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i am still prepping for the load test [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: sorry if I am a bit quiet [11:09] Richardus Raymaker is offline. [11:09] Richardus Raymaker is online. [11:10] BlueWall Slade: ++ [11:10] Robert Adams: hello all [11:10] Erkunder1965 Test1: Unterhältst du dich gerade mit anderen Artist ?? [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hello Robert [11:10] BlueWall Slade: ++ [11:10] Erkunder1965 Test1: bin ich zu lesen ?? [11:10] BlueWall Slade: hello [11:10] Arielle Popstar: Hi Robert [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: well, seeing the inactive connections problm here today and that is with QueueUserWorkItem [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ugh [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: nice watre sim :) [11:11] Kayaker Magic: Well here's a question to start things off: If I see a chair on the other side of a sim crossing, and sit on it, things don't work well. Is that expected? [11:11] Richardus Raymaker is offline. [11:11] Dahlia Trimble is offline. [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: almost certainly [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: yes Kayaker [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i would suggest no doing that heh [11:11] Robert Adams: there is something odd with scripts/messages and the thread stuff... not sure when it started [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: not* [11:11] Richardus Raymaker is online. [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though interesting it is going away [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: what do you mean? [11:12] Kayaker Magic: AVN and InWorld claim to have sim crossings working, at least for vehicles. What are they doing different? [11:12] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no idea [11:12] Teravus Ousley: Kayaker: They programmed that functionality for themselves [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: cant say what Inworld is doing they dont share any code [11:12] Robert Adams: various code fixes that we haven't done [11:12] BlueWall Slade: yesh, STP seems to take over debugging lately. [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: Avination has written the code, and will commit it at some point [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: ok. dont get a failed TP :O [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: those kind of merges take time [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: nice robert. [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: so you did get here? [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: well, as long i have it switched to other conenction. the broken one gave probl;ems [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: flashing my router back to orginal foirmware [11:14] Dahlia Trimble is offline. [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: you mean a different avatar? [11:14] Fly Man: sim crossing [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: no, same avatar. different ip [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: uhhhh, that's odd [11:14] Fly Man: What did you flash the router with ? [11:14] Fly Man: DRT? [11:15] Robert Adams: there is some extra state that must be passed with the avatar when it crosses... [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: dd-wrt, yes. but i cant reach the test sim with that [11:15] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:15] Fly Man: Richard, that's a known issue [11:15] Robert Adams: currently velocity is passed (so flying is a little smoother) but sitting state is not passed [11:15] Fly Man: it improves the Wifi but break a lot of the internal loopbacking [11:15] Arielle Popstar: issue with dd wrt [11:15] Arielle Popstar: newer versions [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: lol, and wifi is the part i neve ruse [11:16] Fly Man: There is work being done on it [11:16] Robert Adams: the vehicle state should also be passed... most vehicle scripts look for the region change event and have to reset everything [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: but tomato i cant get installed. no *.chk [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:16] Fly Man: but so far, no results have been posted [11:16] Teravus Ousley: Hi Dahlia [11:16] BlueWall Slade: hi dahlia [11:16] Arielle Popstar: Hi Dahlia [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:16] Fly Man: Aloha Dahlia [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: oou lots of his today :) [11:17] Robert Adams: I hear a Teravus voice :) [11:17] Fly Man: yeah, loadtest later [11:17] Fly Man: when Neb gets it setup [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been thinking of going with OpenWRT for my router. dd-wrt is going commercial. [11:17] Robert Adams: is there a load test? [11:18] Robert Adams must have missed the memo [11:18] Fly Man: Robert: Nebadon on Twitter: I will be performing a large load test tommorow and need volunteers to connect, more info here : https://t.co/55cu1rr2Hr #opensimulator [11:19] Fly Man: Typing would work [11:19] Fly Man: as some have no voice [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. I don't do twitter so I didn't see the message. [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: Please type any questions [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: voice is the back channel [11:19] Chrisx Vortex: i keep seeing weird random characters below usernames, is that viewer side or server side? [11:20] Equus Staedler: Same here [11:20] Fly Man: ChrisX, kinda like _ and other symbols ? [11:20] Equus Staedler: On FS [11:20] Teravus Ousley hasn't seen that [11:20] Chrisx Vortex: more like (??D??YJM?II5????) [11:20] Chrisx Vortex: yea im using firestorm OS [11:20] Arielle Popstar: different fonts between between FS and Sing i thought it was [11:21] Fly Man: Hmm, don't see those [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks just realized he didn't have voice chat enabled in this viewer [11:21] Teravus Ousley: Firestorm 4.2.2 (29837) Aug 27 2012 19:20:05 (Firestorm-Release) [11:21] Fly Man: but I don't see any Display Names either [11:21] Teravus Ousley: That's what I'm using.. Right now [11:21] Arielle Popstar: i see it on Chrisx, Tea\ravus, Master, Robert [11:21] Teravus Ousley: .. not seeing it with that. US/English [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: their names look fine to me [11:21] Chrisx Vortex: ok thnx, must be FS 4.4 [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I see the odd characters too and I don't have display names enabled AFAIK [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: using older fs 4.3.1 still [11:22] Cuteulala Artis is offline. [11:22] Fly Man: ChrisX, I think it's best to report it to the FS team as well [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Chrisx, Equus, Teravus, and Master all have the same mess under their names. [11:22] Chrisx Vortex: i will be thnx, just wanted to know if it was os or fs since it doesnt happen to me in sl [11:23] Equus Staedler: Always assumed it was FS4.4.0 [11:23] Fly Man: Teravus uses the older FS and doesn't see it [11:23] Fly Man: ChrisX uses the current and notices it [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I see it here and I'm running Singularity 1.8.0 [11:24] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: When creating a prim with an avatar that is the owner of a group, the prim inherits the group. Is that expected behaviour? [11:24] Arielle Popstar: i see it on Teravus [11:24] Arielle Popstar: but not Justin [11:24] Fly Man: Fred, depends on settings in your viewer sometimes [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: Fred: that is expected behaviour [11:24] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: behavior [11:24] BlueWall Slade: fred - it is [11:24] Fly Man: Some viewers have the option to rezz / build things with the group you wearing [11:24] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: thank you [11:25] Kayaker Magic: The prim gets the group the avatar has active at the time [11:25] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: don't understand the logic [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, Justin's floating text is ok but his name is in orange. The affected users floating text is in Red. [11:25] Arielle Popstar: isnt it usually off by default though? [11:25] BlueWall Slade: if you are building on group land, you need those prims to belong to the group [11:25] Fly Man: Arielle, some viewers have it on by default [11:25] BlueWall Slade: hmm, I didn't know that you could set it. [11:25] Equus Staedler: Colours depend on viewer used for that user [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, rezzed prims inherit the active group of the avatar. [11:26] Fly Man: BlueWall, it's the setting called: [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Equus, right. Phoenix/Firestorm viewers use Red IIRC [11:26] Fly Man: "Always rezz objects as land group when available" [11:26] Teravus Ousley: but just because it inherits the group, doesn't make it group owned, right? [11:26] Equus Staedler: Yep [11:27] BlueWall Slade: I think it's not deeded to the group [11:27] Fly Man: It will have the owner name set, group name set but not deeded [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: No one has been talking so you didn't miss anything, mysterious voice [11:28] Teravus Ousley: hehe, ok [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey is looking at other screens simultaneously [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, has that been you? Your voice reminds me a bit of Rod Serling. [11:29] Arielle Popstar: i always seem to get tossed to a chasnnel by myself on voice [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: inactive connections are now going away but only after some timeout and a huge disconnect spew [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting [11:29] Arielle Popstar: channel^ [11:29] Teravus Ousley: There is a minor conversation going on in the iRC channel [11:30] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: The opensim console provides information about the user logging into the sim, including the mac address. It would be nice if that information was also available for HG visitors. [11:30] Fly Man: Robert, I saw that you added the possibility to check for the height of the avatar. Does this mean we won't be seeing "floating" avatars anymore ? [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: hi walter: I see you had a lot of trouible logging in to this sim? [11:31] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: yes [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: finally gave up and HG over [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: and hello Justin [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: were you coninutously trying? [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: yep [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: from LBSA [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: from main login [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: timed out [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: this was the only way to get here [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, it was the inactive connection problem. But now it appears that it eventually does get cleaned up after a big spew [11:32] Unknown User: and HGing takes about a minute... [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: walter: I would predict you can get here with your normal login now [11:32] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: ok [11:33] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: no biggie :) [11:33] Walter.Balazic @lfgrid.com:8002: didn't mean to interrupt [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a bad problem - but this is a good clue [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if it was doing the same with STP thouigh, or whether for some reason that one never times out [11:33] Ai Austin is online. [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: on the what? [11:34] Fly Man: The Q is: Can you get the macaddress on the console for HG visitors [11:34] Arielle Popstar: guess STP is not the motor oil ;) [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: my voice isn't working [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: probably having a prioblem with my active skype again [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: SmartThreadPool [11:34] Arielle Popstar: ahh :)P [11:35] Ai Austin: Hello folks [11:35] Teravus Ousley: I hear stuff coming from your Mic Justincc, fyi [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: fly: I'm sure, though it's not up on my priority list [11:35] Fly Man: Justin: [11:30] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net: The opensim console provides information about the user logging into the sim, including the mac address. It would be nice if that information was also available for HG visitors. [11:35] Arielle Popstar: Hi Ai [11:35] Ai Austin: I am a bit grey this evening [11:35] BlueWall Slade: we should look at using the mac address to authorize incoming avatars that originate on the local lan... [11:35] BlueWall Slade: to get around the public/private ip [11:35] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: re [11:35] Fly Man: Skype always fights with Vivox :D [11:35] Arielle Popstar: oh that would be nice Blue [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: fly: one would just need to find a point where it's available and log it I guess [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah [11:36] Sarah Kline: hi Justin ) [11:36] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: i hope i'm not the unknown user :-) [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: you had a lot of trouble teleporting here today? [11:37] Fly Man: BlueWall, what would be the instant gain from checking that a user is coming from the local side ? [11:37] Sarah Kline: lol yes [11:37] Arielle Popstar: not si9nce you came back TX [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: justin, my tyeleport broke after i tried to TP to other sim. [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: but it eventually succeeded? [11:37] Fly Man: Robert, I saw that you added the possibility to check for the height of the avatar. Does this mean we won't be seeing "floating" avatars anymore ? [11:38] Sarah Kline: yes I logged in here direct again [11:38] Robert Adams: Fly Man: it is supposed to fix that. It can also be tuned through INI file parameters. Documentation at the bottom of http://opensimulator.org/wiki/BulletSim [11:38] Arielle Popstar tries to nudge Robert awake [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: so it worked when you logged in direct? [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: but failed all previous times? [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: or were there any failures with the direct login? [11:39] Robert Adams: I notice Nebadon is off the ground. Are we running with those fixes? [11:39] Sarah Kline: first time I was rooted to the spot but could see region activity [11:39] Arielle Popstar: he looks firmly planted to me [11:39] Fly Man: Robert, thanks, good to know :) [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: how can you tell? [11:40] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: bulletsim: i can't get reliable results when i like to get linked prims physical [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: ok [11:40] Fly Man: Neb looks to be doing his flying trick [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: thts not just the sero offset problem LL have to ? [11:40] Robert Adams: I tuned it so the default avatar stands on the ground about right [11:40] Sarah Kline: logged on to sandbox..tp to Lbsa then tried to get here and it said i did not exist on grid [11:40] Fly Man: as he's 0,5 cm from the ground [11:40] Sarah Kline: so logged back on here directly [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: I can see the attempst on the console [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: then for some reason there's a massive spew and the broken connection finally goes away [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: it's the broken connection that was stopping the teleport [11:40] Robert Adams: tx: what doesn't work reliably? [11:41] Teravus Ousley: physical reliability [11:41] Sarah Kline: yes had that before [11:41] Teravus Ousley: " tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: bulletsim: i can't get reliable results when i like to get linked prims physical" [11:41] Sarah Kline: fails to register presence [11:42] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: robert: i link to prims together, toggle the physics to on and they are not physical [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: where do you see that message, on the log of the source sim? [11:42] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: two [11:42] Sarah Kline: on the viewer when i try to tp [11:42] Sarah Kline: dialog [11:42] Samira Samtanko: hi [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: do you have scripted attachments? [11:43] Sarah Kline: no [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: same question to walter and tx: do you have scripted attachments? [11:43] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: i had similar problems to come back, so i decided to hg here [11:43] Robert Adams: tx: if you have an example I will look into it [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmm, that's very interesting [11:43] Arielle Popstar: Robert, were you able to look at the vehicle passenger rubber banding issue? [11:43] Sarah Kline: its rare that it happens Justin [11:43] BlueWall Slade: afk... [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: it happened to 3 ppl today, but I always thought it was likely to be connected with scripted attachments [11:44] Robert Adams: Arielle: haven't yet [11:44] Arielle Popstar: ok [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ok almost ready for load test :) [11:44] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: robert: sure i have, it's just two normal prim blocks i create, link them together and toggle physics on: nothing happened [11:45] Sarah Kline: load test here or? [11:45] Fly Man: And in 15 mins the Eurovision Song Contest starts [11:45] Ai Austin burts into song [11:45] Equus Staedler: Yiks [11:45] Ai Austin: *or burst [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: you going to sing fly :) ^^ [11:45] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: eurovision song contest? on a tuesday?? [11:46] Ai Austin: For nthe US folksw.. its an institution in Europe [11:46] Equus Staedler: On all the time it seem... [11:46] Ai Austin: very cheesy [11:46] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: USA lucky in that respect [11:46] Equus Staedler: Sweden is infested with it [11:46] Fly Man: Richard, no [11:46] Sarah Kline: Terry Wogan is ace [11:46] Fly Man: But a lovely lady from Ireland is singing [11:46] Fly Man: which is at 21:41 [11:47] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: eurovision song contest is really one of the biggest tv events [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I had completely failed to hear that eurovisio nwas on [11:47] Sarah Kline: lol suspense [11:47] Ai Austin: Lordi! superb. better than the Beatles - just kidding [11:47] Teravus Ousley: heh [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: load test is another grid [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: we will be hypergridding there [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: when you get there find a seat and sit down [11:48] Ai Austin: Intel DSG involved Nebadon? [11:48] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: what grid is this? [11:48] Chrisx Vortex: i wont be going sorry, got work to get to [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no DSK [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no DSG [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its a grid for opensimulator.org [11:48] Arielle Popstar: 200 on a regular region? [11:48] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: wow [11:48] Ai Austin la la la [11:48] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: opensimulator gets its own grid! [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a temporary grid [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back [11:49] Sarah Kline: oh were not going to be replaced [11:49] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: well I can hear todays commentary ok [11:49] Fly Man: Teravus: Are you feeling lucky PUNK! :P [11:50] Fly Man: Yes [11:50] Fly Man: Agree [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, well this feels like it's been pretty chaotic today [11:50] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: there is no song contest today [11:50] Ai Austin: We are all always lucky to be in openSim [11:50] Teravus Ousley: hehe [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: any OpenSimulator questios for the last 10 mins? [11:50] Fly Man: tx, there is the semi-finals [11:50] Teravus Ousley: OpenSim questions? [11:50] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: ah, ok [11:50] Ai Austin: sorry Justin.. getting silly as its a Eurovision night [11:50] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev c86e828: 2013-05-13 13:30:44 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:50] Chrisx Vortex: i got another one sorry and it relates to DTLNSL if thats ok [11:51] Ai Austin: Is the load etst using Intel DSG? [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: dtlnsl? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we can always head over a little early [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: if there are no more questions [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: no [11:51] Arielle Popstar: money module? [11:51] Fly Man: DTLNSL => Alternative Currency [11:51] Chrisx Vortex: yea the money mod [11:51] Teravus Ousley: I'm not sure what DTNNSL is [11:51] Dahlia Trimble heads out for a bit before the load test... bye all :) [11:51] Unknown User: Neb: are you HTTP load balancing at the region level? [11:51] Ai Austin: okay. just standard setup but a powerful server? [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: chrisx: worth asking but I'm not sure how much help there will be [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we are not doing anything particularly special [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: it is a 4 corner region test [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that code might have fallen behind current OpenSimulator [11:52] Ai Austin: got it. thanks [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: to see how many avatars we could get into a 4 corner conference [11:52] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: it's so exciting [11:52] Sarah Kline: like LL do [11:52] Chrisx Vortex: is there a website that tells me what is being requested for buying land cuz i cant get that part to work on my grid [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: if you have alts please send them over as well [11:52] Ai Austin: WE did a 4 grid with around 220 avatars [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but do not bring there here [11:52] Arielle Popstar: so there will be 4 different addresses or does it auto place incoming? [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I think we predict a fiery death [11:52] Ai Austin: 4 region I meant in SL [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: teleport them from another region [11:52] Dahlia Trimble is offline. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we already have enough avatars in Wright plaza [11:52] Fearghus McMahon: hi all [11:52] Fly Man: ChrisX, short answer: No [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: are we ready to get started? did anyone have any more questions? [11:53] Chrisx Vortex: great thnx fly man, gotta just wing it then [11:53] Fly Man: ChrisX, my advice is to trace the connection and figure the XMLRPC call [11:53] Ai Austin: we used text chat relays to cover the whole 4 corner amphitheater which is in teh OpenVCE asset set (OAR) [11:53] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:53] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000 puts on asbestos underwear and gets ready [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: chat over border works now Ai [11:53] Ai Austin whispers: here is my helmet? [11:53] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: huhu pathfinder [11:53] Ai Austin: but 30m range? [11:53] Ai Austin: or did you widen it? [11:54] Arielle Popstar: dea on the asbestos suit Pathfinder :) [11:54] Arielle Popstar: good idea^ [11:54] Chrisx Vortex: gotta go thnx for the help [11:54] Ai Austin: 20m I guess actuyally [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: well today isnt about testing the chat [11:54] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: :) [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its more about testing the load [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but no i did not extend the chat range for this test [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Chrisx, I think there is/was a problem with buying land. [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: not sure one necessarily wants to extend the chat range in this scenario [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: though I guess maybe I'm wrong [11:55] Robert Adams: are you going to tell us where to go, Nebadon? [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh, weaselling :) [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: is voice enabled on those regions, I presume not? [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I myself might have 5 mins but then unfortunatley have an unmoveable sched clash [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:56] Sarah Kline: eurovision lol [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: no voice either for this test [11:56] Fly Man grins [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ok here we go [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:56] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: middle mouse button works to activate voice... [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: the HG url is http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 [11:56] Ai Austin: Do we have the URL somewhere in chat yet? [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: by justin [11:57] Ai Austin: ah there it is [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: A grid I help with that is running 075PF has had issues with selling land. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: if that region is full and you get denied there are 4 regions [11:57] Ai Austin: Okay I am off there [11:57] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: there must be a region name [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: what are the av limits? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Avacon 1 [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: on each region. 40? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Avacon 2 [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Avacon 3 [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Avacon 4 [11:57] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: this is not a valig hg url [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: 50 each [11:57] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: off I go! [11:57] Unknown User: see you there [11:57] Teravus Ousley: I typically do http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 "Avacon 4" [11:58] tx.Oh @gridhop.net:18002: cc.opensimulator.org (44,44,44) [11:58] Teravus Ousley: without the extra colon [11:58] Robert Adams: those aren't connected to OSGrid, Nebadon? [11:58] Second Life: Region found! [11:58] Second Life: Region found! [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: We are heading to Avacon now? [11:59] Robert Adams: I don't find them on the map [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey is going to wait until the meeting finishes :) [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: in a minute [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: "cc.opensimulator.org:8002:avacon 1"? [11:59] Robert Adams: how do we get there? [11:59] Arielle Popstar: remove the http for map search [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, no avacon regions here [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: this is what I'm tying into the main map search box [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, time to try [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: good luck everyone
[10:59] Teravus Ousley: greets [10:59] Now playing: Farbrausch - fr08 .the .product [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi everone [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, The stair climbing patch you did was for git master. I'd like to have that in 075PF but one of the BulletSim files patched in master doesn't exist in 075PF. [11:00] logger sewell: hey all [11:00] Robert Adams: which file is that, Andrew? [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, BSAvatarActorMove.cs [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi bluewall [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi [11:02] Robert Adams: Andrew, that probably means all the actor additions are missing... cherry picking might not be a solution [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, no, a cherry pick failed complete. One file that doesn't exist and rejects on all the other changes. [11:03] Robert Adams: a more radical solution would be to take the whole BulletSim tree and drop it in your system (Region/Physics/BulletSPlugin) [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Since the one file is missing I can't (at the moment) do a manual patch. [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I thought about doing that. [11:03] Robert Adams: BulletSim is fairly independent [11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods [11:04] Robert Adams: remember to get the DLLs and SOs also... the C++ code changed also [11:04] Teravus Ousley: yay for physics separation [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, indeeed [11:04] Teravus Ousley: (there are some sizable challenges as a result of that separation.. but.. tradeoffs :)) [11:04] logger sewell: Hi Kayaker [11:04] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, everyone! [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Uhmm iis bullet working on linux ? [11:05] Robert Adams: Richardus, yes but there have been some library dependency problems on some Linux distributions [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, It works as well as BulletSim works. I did do a brief test un der Linux. [11:05] Fearghus McMahon: i got one region running with bulletsim on centos [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: ok. at some point i can check it. right now fighting with desktops :O [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there was some thing missing that caused an issue with BulletSim use and Linux/mono [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is running Bulletsim [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: well it would be opensuse here [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux Mint for me. [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: all of my regions are on OpenSuse [11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to mostly work when I'vtried it recently. Had to compile it myself though, CentOS 5 doesn't seem to like the default ones [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think there may be issues on 32 bit still Robert? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or was that fixed? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: always compile opensim on linux [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I could tell you. I'm only running 32-bit Linux [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably some of the native system libraries and the bullet dll? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: 32bit. who is useing that ^^ [11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: 32-bit is soo last decade. :P [11:07] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn uses 32-bit Linux. :) [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Bulletsim good on Fedora 32 and 64 bit [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well It was broken on 64 bit, then Robert fixed that, and then after that reports came in that 32 bit was broken [11:07] Teravus Ousley: I have a virtual PC on my Mac that uses 32 bit :P [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: are you guys running master git? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: or latest OSgrid release? [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I am and will continue to do so until such time as you can run a 64-bit machine without need for any 32-bit libraries. [11:07] Fearghus McMahon: i've never compiled opensim onlinux yet...just using the osgrid download so far [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: this break was very recent [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: git master here [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: git master [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:08] Robert Adams: the glibc libraries have been getting updated recently but the newer version aren't in all distributions yet [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably got fixed [11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: I usually run master [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: most i run still 0.7.5 with one 0.7.6dev sandback. but running behind. still setting up things [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, which version of glibc? [11:08] Robert Adams: so I have to be careful about libraries needed [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some distros are slow to change [11:09] Robert Adams: glibc 2.14 has an updated memcpy.... most distributions don't have it yet [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some distros like OpenSuse 11.4 are no longer being updated [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... glibc or just glib? [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people could possibly build the bullet libs from source if they fail [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy for me to upgrade either [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Debian Stable is often problematic in that fashion. [11:09] Robert Adams: there is also updates to glibcxx (to 3.9, I think) [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, will it compile on the older ones? [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: well soem hoster that stil serve r11.4 is running behind. start to work with 12,3 myself [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have glibc installed on my machine [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: how can i check wich clib is installed ? [11:11] Robert Adams: Bluewall, it does compile on the older ones... my problem is that my build environment keeps linking to the latest-and-greatest then the binaries don't work on the older distributions [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhh glib :O [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, cool. I'm thinking about users's compilting it on their systems in case it fails [11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Rich: Your distro's package manager might tell you. [11:11] Fearghus McMahon: heya justin [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think most people dont' understand the way pinvoke works [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi feargus, folks. sorry I'm late [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:12] Robert Adams: Bluewall, that works and I know of some who have done that [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, then it's good that there is a workaround [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: <--- Materials Girl [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:14] Teravus Ousley: materials girl.. yes :) [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will those work on mesh avatars? [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Only glibc files I have are part of cross-compilers I have installed. [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: probably [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woot [11:14] Robert Adams: Justin, what is the state of SOP dynamic properties... are they completed and usable? [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: glibc v2.17-4.4.1 if i have the right one on opensuse 12.3 [11:14] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders why glibc isn't showing up in Synaptic. [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: I used them [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they exist, but they may still need to change in response to actual usage [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, dahlia has taken the brave step [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: materials are stored there [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: however, I think any changes will probably relate to how data is stored retrieved rather than data formats [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: What sort of properties are dynamic? [11:15] Robert Adams: I was going to start using them to store extra physics properties (like user set center-of-mass) [11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: If you apply materials to a mesh avatar, you can't leave your sim, unless you want to reapply the materials every time you return to it or another materials enabled simulator. ;) [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: you can add a OSDMap to a SOP [11:16] Teravus Ousley: haha, anything you don't want to write a database connector and migration for? :D [11:16] Robert Adams: just wondered if you thought the design had settled down or whether they were about to change [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, latest version should fix that [11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, Dahlia. :) [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think data format change would only occur if actual use found some significant problem with how it's being done at the moment [11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Are OARs/IARs working with materials too? I saw a commit regarding that. When I tested it, I couldn't get it to work, though. [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: only reason it's "experimental" now is that LL may change it, or if something is not working or changes in dynamic attributes [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I think you could probably go ahead and use it [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: we need some rules about naming though [11:17] Robert Adams: are the dynamic properties serialized to the DB and OAR/IAR files? [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes. Though if they reference assets then those currently need code in UUIDGatherer to scan and collect them [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: which I want to make modularizable sometime soon [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: question, soemone fund it and i see it to. why does "land show" only display 252,252,0 as result. also scipt parcel divide seems to go wrong [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in what way are these different from prim properties? [11:18] Robert Adams: excellent [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: and maybe some rules enforcement, like in a script cant write anything that starts with 'OS:" [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: best not to store large chunks of data in them though. Largue chunks should probably remain in assets [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that might be an idea [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: though I can also imagine an argument for allowing scripts to do that as a communicaton mechanism with modules [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6608 [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: then you get into the hairness about concurrency [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: ya but modules could read anything [11:20] Robert Adams: the JSONStore is the best inter-script comm system... it has changed events and locking and all that's needed for taht [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not a bug [11:20] Teravus Ousley: I know.. we should have comprehensive permissions trees on every node *wink* [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yeah, mic put in a hack to have the SOP dynattrs as the backing store for JSONStore [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ? ok, justin... still weird.. [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: minimum land parcel square is 4 meters [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: but I see your point, so maybe it's something to consider [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: a scene-level DynAttrs would be kinda cool too :) *hint* [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: someone else found it. only note it. [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: melanie previous put in a key:value store for regions but that's structurally different [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a dynattrs for scene presence could also be a good idea too [11:22] Robert Adams: Dahlia, at which level? parcel, region, ?? [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh whats it called? [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: would allow npc stuff to be stored there, for instance, rather than in parallel data structures [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: at top level of the scene [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: something not tied to any object in the scene [11:23] Robert Adams: 'scene' as in OS simulator level? [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: yes [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: or region level [11:23] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley associates 'scene level' with Scene.cs in OpenSim.Region.Framework [11:23] Robert Adams: you can do that with JSONStore.... it can be used just as a named store that scripts can reference [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I mean a persistant one [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: anyway I didnt really need it, just occured to me while doing the materials stuff that it might be a nice feature [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: look at GetExtraSetting(), StoreExtraSetting(), RemoveExtraSetting() on Scene [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: ty [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I am wary of dynamic attributes. It makes things easier than changing the database but I think we need to watch for any efficiency issues [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and currently the need to lock the entire structure on any data change is pretty awkward [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could linq be used with all this? [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe if one were to write the required glue [11:28] Teravus Ousley: we don't really use much linq in opensim :) [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm not an expert on it, I have just come across it a few times [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems like a way to make handling data generic [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: justin, what if the locks were in getters and setters? [11:29] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley uses it for querying object data collections in work.. but hasn't used it in OpenSimulator. [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe for getting/setting an entire OSDMap, but that would still leave you vulnerable to concurrency issues of changing settings within the map [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: A while back we talked about upping the tools from 3.5 [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that once the next Debian is released [11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Dahlia ran into an issue with default parameters that would have worked if we were on 4.0 [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: lol debian releases are rare [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, wikipedia is saying may 4th ot 5th 2013 :) [11:31] Teravus Ousley: Maybe, if instead of a single lock on that collection.. there's multiple lock spaces [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: yeah, I was thinking along those lines - wanted to see what it looked like under 'real' usage first [11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 3ce1981: 2013-04-29 22:21:57 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: another alternative is to have 'dynamic objects' instead of attributes [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which get serialized whenever the sop is seralized and deserialized when it's deserialized [11:33] Teravus Ousley: Early optimization is bad :) yes. [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I saw those but didnt know what they were [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that way modules, could deal with first class objects and we concurrency could be simpler, I think [11:33] Robert Adams: BulletSim will have one OSDMap with values that are updated by a region module based on script functions [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's more tomwards the entity:component approach I think [11:33] Teravus Ousley: If we really need to do something about it, we could always implement a 'first letter locking mechanism' hack that.. has a separate lock object for the first letter of the namespace [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: would any object need serialization methods? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I was thinking that modules could register for the ser/deser event and handle it however they like [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: is that the way it works now? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they could choose how to use the data to reconstitute objects which they would add to a generic dictionary on sop [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, on serializatio nwe simply use generic libomv code to serialized the OSDMap [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I meant on the dynamic objects [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: haven't implemented it yet :) [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: oh thought I saw it in code [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not nice to do since it involves some adjustment of our existing serialized code [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: serialization code [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: there was DynAttrs and DynObjects [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, haven't completed DynObjects [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but DynAttrs would be continue to be valid [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: they would remain the persistent store [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: so when completed it would be backward compatible [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: oh so currently DynObjects stores System.Object references? [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: k [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to look at optimizatio nfor DynAttrs since having an extra DAMap for every SOP may not be trivial [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have 40000 SOPS for instance, that's an extra 40000 DynAttr objects [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: probably would want an ICOmponent interface that defines a few methods like for serialization and message handling [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: would be better if they could be null if not used, but that's a little awkward to do I think [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think OSDMaps use much space if unused [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I need to get a better sense of just how much memory is used by mono/.net oibjcts [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: never really delved into that space [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: but a null reference for a map might work [11:41] Teravus Ousley: It's fun to keep a lot of texture byte[] references around. [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: are byte[] references? [11:42] Teravus Ousley: The array is a reference [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: Ive seen them get borked when they fall out of a using() scope [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, perhaps we should see if there are any other opensimulator questions for the remaining 20 mins [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody? [11:43] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley wakes up people [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I was able to confirm that objects rezed from tarash [11:44] logger sewell: Justin do have any idea when the 7.6 will be out ? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: err Trash* [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: I'm hioping to start the process soon but there are a few issues I want to look at first [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantisa bout llGetTime() returning negative numbers and numbers in the past, but [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an item directly from your trash can, anyone who takes a copy the item goes back to trash can, this is impropper [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'm waiting to try a newer Mono to see if that fixes it [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: like exactly why changing the thread pool makes certain issues with ghost avatars go away [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: that bug is very old nebadon. [11:44] logger sewell: ok thanks [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: back to the rezzer's trashcan? [11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative get time is pretty cool. That sounds like it may have something to do with Environment.Tickcount wraparound [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: actually I think it's a mono bug :) [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen that trashcan bug between 0.74 and 0.7.5 for first time [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, the negative time is always just about 3600 seconts in the past [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: the same one that was causing diva to see the sun jump around at regular intervals [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which was fixed in 2.10.6 or later I think [11:46] Teravus Ousley: oh, nifty.. and here I thought that was a joke that sdague was playing from before :) [11:46] Robert Adams: it's not April 1st [11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 [11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have mono 2.10.6, supposed to be fixed in 2.10.8 [11:46] Lani Global: Here is a curiosity... for most of this year, in my inventory, I often see items I created and gave away, but with other people's ownership. Perhaps that is related? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no it seems to go to whoever takes its trash [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even if I send them a copy [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to objects [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you [11:47] Teravus Ousley: Could be two things.. could be a stored folder.. or the 'delete object' routine is kicking in and sending it to trash [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: try taking a copy of that red box [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Is Mono 3.0 working with opensim now? [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: could you name it something other than primitive? :0 [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it went to "My Suitcase" [11:48] Fearghus McMahon: my regions run on mono 3.6 or 7 now i think Kayaker [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there you go [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i have seen iand i think its something todo with the --profile --home option in iar / oar that perms got lost when you load it on other place. not sure if thats a bug with HG ? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surpising Bluewall. your HG [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: yes, I believe it works well, thuogh still not with the newer garbage collector [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything is forced to suitcase [11:48] Teravus Ousley: It ended up in lost and found [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wanted to see if it would fail [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it either goes to lost and found [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: or trash [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should never do either of those things [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should go to objects [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: same thing happens if I send this object to someone [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they cant find it [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I took a copy but it doesn't show up in my inventory [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: it appears in lost & found nebadon [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: something very wrong [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should always go to Objects [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ok, what if you put it in a folder named "Stuff" and the revieving person has a folder named "Stuff" will it go there? [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: but i cant do anything with it. not delete not move [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... in Singularity 1.8.0 it shows up in Lost and Found for just a second then disappears. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I think something similar happens [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i use old astra [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if I rez an object from a folder in my inventory [11:50] Fearghus McMahon: kayaker, only issue i've had was teleporting out of my region would crash it sometimes...but that i have not seen yet with the latest osgrid release [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and then delete that folder [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Astra Viewer 1.6.5 (3) [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: The red cube gets lost completely on a take. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the time no one can find it [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Does this also happen with a direct offer of inventory to another person? Is it only objects, or does it occur with other assets such as textures or clothing? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but it should be either in one of the 2 places [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see it. but no control on it [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can't find it either. Inventory moves for a moment but then moves back [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have only seen this happen with items you can rez [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: objects [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this is only stuff retrieved back from trash? [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: It goes to L&F but then immediately disappears from that folder and a search doesn't turn it up anywhere in inventory. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what starts it is i rez it directly from trash to ground [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then basically from that point on its ruined [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew. maby my viewer is buggy i still see it. but i think its gone [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: unless i move it to objects [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then rez it again [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that fixes it [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does sound like some last rezzed from inventory folder issue [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I am almost certain its been this way for years [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just no ones really said anything about it [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but lately its really getting on my nerves [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what if the reciever has a folder named the same as the one you take it from? [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I noticed that in Avination and said something about it there but it was supposed to be the "correct behaviour" [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think that matters [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: because its all UUID references [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: none of our rountines rely on folder naming [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the uuids would never match [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: to land back in trash. [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from some iar/oar commands [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it is looking for "Trash" here, but then goes to "My Suitcase" [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think whats happening is the lastfolder uuid is not found [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it sends it to lost and found [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is wrong [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i think i mentoined that problems month ago already. or soemthing like that. only never seen it so bad as now [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i am assuming its called lastfolder [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how we reference that [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, probably that should get set back to UUID.Zero which I think would trigger it to go in the correct 'type' folder [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: didnt dig that deep [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. Objects for objects [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Perhaps it is looking for the trash folder based on the UUID of the owner who rezzed it and a folder by the same name may exist in someone elses inventory but they would have a different UUID [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds sane Justin [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though that wouldn't work for the original rezzer [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so possibly there needs to be code to ignore the last folder if the user is not the object 'owner' [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well nothing you ever take or receive should ever automatically go to lost and found or trash [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not ever [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: it would be good if opensim looks what type of object ,texture, photo, objetc and put it there for the new owner [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: only time that happens is if you decline [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it gets moved there [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise objects should always go to Objects folder no matter what [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, did you get any further with setting avatar properties via llSetLinkParams() and similar? [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not much, I have looked into it a couple of times [11:57] Lani Global: I've seen many things I take or copy go to Lost and Found [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I might get a chance myself soon, though it's queued behind a bunch of other things [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't want to tread on any work you may already have done [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see you have mode several things to support it [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: mode? [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have only looked so far [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohh, "made" [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I did clean up a bunch of stuff when doing the get portion [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. common routines to get the avatar correctly for a given link number [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think you have some methods to get SEO [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lists of them [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: search engine optimization? [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Scene Entity Obj [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I was thinking search engine optimization :-) [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, you mena sop :) [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the base [12:00] Teravus Ousley: right, the base type [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ISceneEntity and similar [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, that [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: our horrific crappy interface hiearchy :) [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: @.@ [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go eat. Thanks for the meeting, folks [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that works, but what I didn't want to do is check everything coming through there to from a bottleneck [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Loger, do you know what version of Mono is running on VH? [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thank you JCC [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: bon appetit Justin [12:01] Robert Adams: bye all [12:01] Teravus Ousley: byese [12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: c ya robert [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Robert, thanks [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if 076 is "coming soon", I might as well wait instead of dropping BS from master in to 075PF [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I just also confirmed [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an object from a folder [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then delete that folder [12:02] Lani Global: thank you Justin! [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and take a copy of that item it goes to trash or lost and found also [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: major borkage [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wonder this is happening so much [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that makes sense [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I mean, it shouldn't do that [12:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Dahlia: the latest group offerings have group chat working, provided your all on the same sim. That was tested in a HG ebvironment [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but at least it's a repro