Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-28

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[11:00] Taarna Welles: There is a new Firestorm release Rich
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: i know
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: not saying my problem is fixt
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: brb
[11:02] Sarah Kline: hi all
[11:03] VivK Lowlag: hi Sarah
[11:03] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          1507483: 2012-08-20 15:57:28 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[11:03] Master Dubrovna: Hi Sarah
[11:03] Taarna Welles: Heya :)
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: Hello
[11:03] Artemis Tesla: Hello BlueWall :)
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: well the firestorm team fixt nothing !
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: crap viewer
[11:05] Taarna Welles: O-o
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:05] Sarah Kline: Richard you will never find a viewer that suits you
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: I downloaded the latest one last week and couldn't connect with the -loginuri
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: Its not me, its a bug in the viewer with editor
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: so, which one did you use?
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: BlueWall i am pretty sure Firestorm for SL will not be adding that back
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: yeah
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: and zen have still the 404 error. so not usabel
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: I built Teapot :)
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: they said pretty much there will be a short window when firestorm completely stops supporting OpenSim probably
[11:06] VivK Lowlag: that will be fixed in the next release
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: ohh?
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: wich next one. today is a new zen
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: we'll probably have a purely opensim version end of October
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: I thought they were going to make an OpenSim viewer?
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya once they full integrate the Havok stuff
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: okk, OK
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: but that wont happen until after they break compatability
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be paralelle development
[11:07] Sarah Kline: Yes its not the one yet
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: until after its broken
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:07] Sarah Kline: but they did put a help thing on page for grid manager
[11:08] Hiro Protagonist: howdy Justin
[11:08] Taarna Welles: Hi Justin
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: and in firestorm you still cant edit any script or notecard without getting a bigger mess
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: I am looking at some of the things we must put up with that need to change to kick start us
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya it probably wont' completely break for a few more versions
[11:08] Sarah Kline: HI JUustin
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: at some point though the grid manager will be removed from the SL version
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: Hey Justin
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: which is likely to happen before the OpenSim version is available
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: Zen btw much better here then firestorm now
[11:08] Sarah Kline: oo
[11:08] Sarah Kline: well we still have viewers to log in with in meantime
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: a lot of the things in the viewer assumes that you are ion a closed garden, and we should change those to operate in an open environment
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: it will just mean you can't update for a few versions
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not a huge deal
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: Hey Dahlia
[11:10] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: And singularity 1.7.x have some broken udp fallback. so you dont see prims on caps disabled regions. and sad to say some seems to spread a modified opensim version. with caps disabled
[11:12] Dahlia Trimble: OMG a jumping cricket!
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ?
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi artimes
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: that's a small person
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: oh lol
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: well not see a cricket
[11:12] Dahlia Trimble: oh
[11:12] Taarna Welles: :)
[11:13] Taarna Welles: Well done Artemis :)
[11:13] Artemis Tesla: ?
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: you fit good with the tree's
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I sincerely hope this isn't a random bug :)
[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: though it would be a pretty cool one
[11:13] Sarah Kline: lol
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I have seen even smaller ones in SL
[11:13] Sarah Kline: this is the solution to region size
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: yeah. you need to watch where you walk there
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: like 1/4 the size of Artemis
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: Yes sarah
[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: ha
[11:14] Sarah Kline: ^^
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: how do you do that?
[11:14] Artemis Tesla: mesh
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: folded skeleton?
[11:15] Sarah Kline: with Avatstar?
[11:15] Artemis Tesla: just scale the skeleton
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: that's funny
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: only camming with that avatar size is so terrible difficult :)
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: oh didnt know it would scale that small
[11:15] Robert Adams: the avatar capsule seems to be original size, though
[11:15] Arielle Popstar: torso is elongated in my viewer. Supposed to be that way?
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: Is there a way to see easy how much memory every script use ?
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: there is not, an I suspect such a thing is not possible with xengine
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I think there is a LSL function that is suppose to return some kind of stat re: memory
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, in opensim it returns a dummy value
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: ok. something is eating memory at my sandbox at some point its increased to 2GB starting around 1GB
[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: lol Andrew. not easy with a few 100 scripts
[11:19] Script saved
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, yeah. "every script". Not so easy.
[11:19] Richardus Raymaker: the lsl command i tried did not work btw. it keept showing 16KB. i have seen some other command to i have not tried
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: profile it
[11:20] Script saved
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: that's hardly easy
[11:20] Dahlia Trimble: whats that profiler thingie? dottrace?
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: thats one
[11:20] Dahlia Trimble: I think I have that somewhere
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.jetbrains.com/profiler/
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: thats not free ?
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i think it is
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: I got a license for some other project
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: it say 10day trail
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya hrmm
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: used to be free i thought
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: oh there's a free open source one
[11:23] Nebadon IzumiNebadon Izumi shakes fist! Damn capitalists!
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: well blowing some steam today not bad idea. :)
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: oh well you would go insane after 10 days anyway
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: trying to profile opensim
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:23] Richardus Raymaker: well there's a free one. but you dont need that to get insane
[11:24] Arielle Popstar: any update on the status of HG2?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, it looks like I have introduced an inventory bug into master that I need to fix later today
[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: aha, good one. intressted to
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: affects robust server/standalone
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: when the doctors, lawyers and grocery stores start giving services for free, then everyone else can, lol
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: no idea, waiting for diva on that one
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: Justin - what does the bug do?
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: it stops you creating ordinary folders under your "my inventory" folder
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: ohh
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: immediatley under - elsehwhere is probably fine
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I introduced it on friday
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: I saw a hangup in the inventory downloading that prevents rezzing from inventory
[11:27] Arielle Popstar: if Diva stop contributing, would hypergrid functionality go bye bye?
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: Arielle - no
[11:27] Arielle Popstar: ok, good to know\
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: that is soemthign that is important to me
[11:28] Arielle Popstar: nods
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: HG is important for many
[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: You guys were talking about the latest firestorm release earlier? http://phoenixviewer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/firestorm-update-42129803-pathfinding.html
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Did we just crash or was it just me?
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: just you
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Just your own personal crash :)
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: Yes justin, but it still have the scale UI bug.. :\
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Probably my common momentary loss of Internet connection. :-P
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: scale ui bug?
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: yes. most dont see it. just use the scale UI slider in preferences to get bigger font. then the editor get nuts with the cursor position
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: It can also cause menus to misalign, at least when you go smaller.
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: that's a shame
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: so try to edit msg into message is really criminal
[11:31] Script saved
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: if you like tou know , say it there's a frie report
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: fire
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: has anybody noticed more grey avatars?
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon are you useing the latest zn now ?
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yes I am Richardus
[11:33] VivK Lowlag: Just Key Gruin most of the time
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: i have the 404 bug still..
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: colors look fine here justin
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:33] Arielle Popstar: only dahlia's top
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: only think that keeps me from useing it
[11:33] Script saved
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya I get the 404 thing too
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: not a huge deal
[11:34] Arielle Popstar: few more clouds again in lbsa for me the last few days and tp's slow
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: just click it a couple times
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I guess Zena forgot about fixing it
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I know danbanner talked to Zena about it
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: well, i try to lower clicks. more clicks is less otehr fun
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya hopefully gets fixed soon
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: dan was able to fix it by editing xml or something
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i forget the details of what he said now
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: if i remember he changed something from osgrid.org to login.osgrid.org
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: or something
[11:35] VivK Lowlag: yes
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember exactly
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: something about add login
[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: tried to remake the whole grid item dont help
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: k ya I'll try to follow up with dan when he is around
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: see whats up
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: well he have official bug report now to
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya dan may have already made one
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: not even sure
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i know they spoke about it though
[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: well i searched on 404 nopthing found
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I assumed it was through the ticket tracker
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: he explained it yesterday. forgot to save the link. also because it would be fixt in next version
[11:38] Richardus Raymaker: or it where few days ago..
[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: well with opensim i dont see much problems for now
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hey Marcus, heh nice Avatar
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Hiya Neb, thanks. :)
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: hmm did lani let some alian escape ? hi marcus
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Hiya Rich
[11:40] Sarah Kline: Get that alien some pants
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Made this for Halloween. ;)
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: looks good, not sure what it must be
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: Just a made up creature
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics for today?
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: That has nothing to do with OpenSim dev. ;)
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: nothing here
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: Neb, do you know if that person from yesterday got the sim running on new version of opensim. the one from irc ?
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: not sure
[11:43] UUID Speaker: Ish Tomsen: a53846b9-cbda-4026-b1db-81e83f4667c3
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: darn, pulling a blank on things to bring up ;)
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: hurrah!
[11:44] VivK Lowlag: what of the things the griefer did the other day?
[11:44] Artemis Tesla: LinksitTargets are asking for perms if the script is in a different prim instead of autogranting them..
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: hey - the discussion on IRC about terraign ending
[11:45] BlueWall Slade: editing
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: which Griefer VivK?
[11:45] BlueWall Slade: a general question to everyone - when editing the terraigh, does it lag the sim if you use sweeping, long movements like painting?
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: Griever ??
[11:46] VivK Lowlag: EL something
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Bluewall the only time i have ever noticed that myself
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: is when you are editing terrain in a sim your not directly in
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: usually just doesnt have much affect with that sort of movement
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: like on multi-region simulators
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: what IRC chat about terrian dont see anything
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or mega regions
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: at least for me
[11:46] VivK Lowlag: the one Key Banned that would channel flood IM and firend requests and overloading name cards
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: When I edit terrain, I get the nost lag if ai make lots of small edits. If I hold brush (kepe the left mouse button down) and sweep it, I get less lag.
[11:46] Robert Adams: If you mean by 'lag' the effect that you edit the terrain but the view of the changes is very slow, yes
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: Neighborn sims are 80% of time slow to edit. other thing with terrain edit i see its getting a bit slower when you edit longer terrain. buffer full i guess
[11:47] Taarna Welles: @Vivk El Jilipollas 213.142.180.63 hit LBSA Plaza
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: we banned them
[11:47] VivK Lowlag: that was him
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: I HATE editing terrain
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya i very rarely use the in world terrain editing tools
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: I usually make it in photoshop and upload it
[11:48] Arielle Popstar: the viewer used makes a difference i find
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: Oh no. its pretty easy to do thing. only the iron part is hard
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: they are pretty horrible in my opinion
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i use L3DT or something
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: then just do minor touchups with the inworld tools
[11:48] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn would kill to be able to create terrain in Blender and upload it as an OBJ or similar.
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: thats difficult work DSahlia. in photoshop. inworld is more easy and faster
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: melanie had some comments that we shoudl discard most of the events
[11:48] Robert Adams: in my case, I traced it to the output terrain update queue getting backed up... like the rate is set way too low
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: like take 1 of 10 or soemthing like that
[11:48] Richardus Raymaker: L3DT is a bit off in height the last time i tried it
[11:49] BlueWall Slade: it works Rich
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: I dont know of amy mode in blender that would work well with a heightfield
[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: Getting the scale correct with L3DT can be a pain, agreed.
[11:49] BlueWall Slade: I made one a couple of weeks ago and it was prettty good
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: excapt maybe baking to a displacement map
[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: You can import grayscale heightmaps as noise... but wind up guestimating a whole lot. :(
[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: And exporting is a complete crapshoot.
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: But.. how can you do something outside the world if you can bring the prims into l3dt so you get the terrain right ? :O
[11:49] BlueWall Slade: but, the in-world tools should work good too...
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: the scripted tools work instantly
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: but, they are taking one shot
[11:50] Dahlia Trimble: the brushes in the in-world tools just dont work for me
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: the viewer would be bombarding the sim with packets
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: The script tools cannot edit tgerrain in agle sofar i know. unles i hav eold tool
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: agle?
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, viewer network bandwidth to high ?
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: angle
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: ohh
[11:51] Dahlia Trimble: too high?
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: stupid keyboard and user :O
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: well, neither does the viewer tool?
[11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: The smaller brushes have never worked for me. Only when I have the szize medium or larger to they work for me in-world.
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: well in the viewer i can smooth a terrain thats say in 45 degree terrain
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya I have noticed that as well
[11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: Oh wait... it's not size, it's strength I think.
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: certain tools work ok but not all
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: smoothing is the only tool that I can work with
[11:52] VivK Lowlag: the settings seem to run amock or not at all
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: You need to play with both marcus. inworld really works very nice
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: they work if you just tap them
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: 'if you stay on them they lag
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Hmm, singularity etc i have not seen any problem. imprudence not sure
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think its more about the simulator side
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: I thjink the conversation last night came to the conclusion that we are filling the buffer
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: all the viewers work the same in terms of the terrain tools
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: imp was no good for terrain edits
[11:53] Artemis Tesla: the viewer tools work better if you set terrain detail to high. less bouncing and such
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: yup
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: we need throttles on the sim side, just as we do the network side
[11:53] Arielle Popstar: i didnt find that Neb
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: Artimes , ???
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: well I do not recall any of the TPV's making any changes to terrain tools
[11:54] Sarah Kline: Well the way the ground keeps moving and buckling yes
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: it's OpenSim
[11:54] Sarah Kline: if you overrun it
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: we allow it to happen
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I have to cut out a bit early today. Have to go out shortly.
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: graphics -> terrain is max here
[11:54] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: astra was quite a bit better then imp
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: see you Andrew
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: bye
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: \o Andrew
[11:54] Arielle Popstar: even when it was derived from imp
[11:54] Sarah Kline: bye Andrew
[11:54] Artemis Tesla: Shrug just stuff i have noticed
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its more likley because of the LL base code
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: than anything the TPVs did
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: you need to give opensim while editting sometimes a break. so used to that. but would be ice if its not needed
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: you would probably have similar issues using the LL viewer based on the same code that Imprudence was based on itself
[11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: I doubt even LL has touched terrain stuff (server or client) in a very long time.
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: But in SL its just smooth and fast
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: it's sim side
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya the terrain stuff is all on the simulators
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: the viewers really do nothing but pass packets back and forth
[11:55] Dahlia Trimble: LL needs to rethink terrain, it's horrible
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Also a mega region outside root can get slow with edit
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: we just dont handle it correctly
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: it is the same issue we used to have on the maps
[11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Dahlia
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: you cant even paint pathways
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya what is especially horrible about the LL terrain
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: is the texturing
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: you could zoom out and fill the buffer for weeks
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, thats a pain , pathways
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: that just totally ruins any expectations of making it look even semi decent
[11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: I've been tempted to replace terrain with mesh, but I'm not sure how well that would work out with the physics engine.
[11:56] Sarah Kline: its a pretty low resolution mesh
[11:56] Sarah Kline: but even then it take time to draw
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: Oh yes textureing. wish the accepted at least 1024x1024 maps
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: terrain is difficult though
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: it would be cool to produce the region in L3DT and send textures and all over
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: will opensim be likely to diverge from s/l compatbility in light of the changes they are making?
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: very detailed terrain mesh can be very heavy
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: Marcus, problem with mesh mountains. if you fall to fast you end beow it. happens in sl. so it cant be better here
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: we should
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: even making Mesh terrains
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: its very very difficult
[11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: Forget l3Dt. Terrain editing in Blender, please! Hehe :)
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: well you could just make a collada terrain prim
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: Forgot beldner, do it inworld
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: L3DT is specialized for that
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: even with L3DT
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: but, if Blender works, yeah
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its very difficult to make super detailed terrain
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: the mesh files are gigantic
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: like 100's of meg
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: otehrwise use L3DT, ofcorse i really dont know how to get the terrain right without the prims on the terrain
[11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: I have about a third of a region that's almost completely mesh as the moment. One large mesh... a mountain that contains a cave. It works quite well.
[11:58] Dahlia Trimble: do it in pieces
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: by the time you get the terrain mesh to be an acceptable size to upload with LL viewer
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: what I'm saying - what if the viewer would allow a texture for the full terrain
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: the quality is actually lower than what LL offers with in world tools
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: 1:1 pam
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: map
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: no-tiles
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: eeuw bluewall. thats a 4096x4096 texture or so.
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: thats the only real benefit
[11:59] Robert Adams: mesh terrain doesn't need to be convex.... caves and tunnels :)
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: is the texturing
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can make it 1 big solid texture map
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: whcih is nice
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can bake in roads and features
[11:59] Dahlia Trimble whispers: caves work in mesh terrain in opensim :)
[11:59] Sarah Kline: When we are all on fibre optic maybe that will be possible
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: surprisingly
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: still to this day
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: since SL cut the umbilical cord, thenm we can at least start to think
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: fibre optic. hmm 2020 maby
[12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: They sure do. I have a huge cave to prove it.
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: the only way i can make super high detailed quality terrains
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: is with sculpty
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and its a royal pain in the ass
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: but, all the thinking in the world doesn't do much good w/o developers willing to turn it into code
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: not to mentoin when you wnat to move a road..
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: and, with all the people making money off this, I would think we would see more contribution
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: :)
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: need in world op[ensim coding classes :)
[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: For now it only cost money. lol
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats just one of those more specialzed areas really
[12:01] Taarna Welles: peeps I got to go. CU next week.
[12:01] Robert Adams: need to start a new TPV effort that is made for OpenSim
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: bye Taarna
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: tc Dalia
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: well, Teapot is a pretty good start
[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Robert
[12:02] Arielle Popstar: oh sorry Taarna
[12:02] Sarah Kline: Firestorm fork and Armin too
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: I think we willneed to start with what we have because of the content
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya that would be nice for sure, still though, getting into that stuff is still some pretty specialized stuff
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: most of the TPV devs are just doing UI enhancments and such
[12:03] Artemis Tesla: Oh along the lines of need people to work on things.. any chance we could get a monthly or so class together to for all us non devs. so we can help with that? Stuff like a best practices faq for code and such ?
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: very few are actually that knowledgable about the OpenGL and Graphics engine side of things
[12:03] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          1507483: 2012-08-20 15:57:28 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[12:03] Sarah Kline: True Neb
[12:03] BlueWall Slade: I saw something about LL putting more lo
[12:03] BlueWall Slade: lighting effects in the viewer
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are a few doing it
[12:03] BlueWall Slade: we need those
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Artemis... Opensim is just HUGE... with tons of niggling little details. A class isn't gonna cut it, unless you're in for a couple years. ;)
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: well soem C# classes are welcome. i know soem things. but a few things i dont get
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: not saying there are none, just saying there are very few
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the best one was Kirsten
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: my region module is a good place to start
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: unfortuantly he is gone now
[12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Bluewall, you mean the new materials?
[12:04] Artemis Tesla: I meant like small thing
[12:04] Arielle Popstar: even some classes on how opensim is put together
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: it shows how to build a module and it logs waypoints when it starts
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the best people for that now I would say are on Exodus team
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: most of OpenSim is written on that format
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: they are the ones who worked out the Materials
[12:05] Dahlia Trimble: gotta go, bye all :)
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: Exodus - that has a nice ring to it
[12:05] Robert Adams: bye Dahlia
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia
[12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: There's a repo on github for the material code.
[12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya Dahlia. :)
[12:05] Sarah Kline: normal maps and spec
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortuantely they have literally zero interest in OpenSim
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: heh, where are they exedus-ing from then?
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: RL?
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-development-materials
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Katherine Berry is on the exodus team now
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: she was the one who wrote Ajaxlife
[12:06] BlueWall Slade: I was in SL last week and opened the map - mostly yellow, abandoned land
[12:06] Sarah Kline: does opensim have serverside support for materials?
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: when she was like 15
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: no Sarah
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: not yet
[12:06] Sarah Kline: ok
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off too
[12:07] BlueWall Slade: take care Justin
[12:07] Sarah Kline: Bye Justin
[12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Chances are, materials will be served up just like any other textures. Everything I've read indicates there won't be any super-special packaging involved.
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks later
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Justin
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Later Justin :)
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: waves
[12:07] Sarah Kline: its doubtful theyd get used here lol
[12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd use them in a flash!
[12:08] Robert Adams: there are a bunch of new prim parameters that OpenSim needs to add... pathfinding added meshing and collision flags
[12:08] Sarah Kline: they make for effient modelling
[12:08] Marcus Llewellyn: The avatar I'm wearing now would benefit from normal maps alone.
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: do you think its even worth adding those Pathfinding stuff Robert?
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: since the only viewers that will actually support it wont be able to connect to OpenSim?
[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: You can connect a pathfinding viewer to OpenSim now.
[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: It's just NavMesh visualization we don't get.
[12:09] Richardus Raymaker: Maby the pathfinding stuff can used in some way to extend NPC's ?
[12:09] Arielle Popstar: no doubt there will be efforts to get those viewers connecting here at some point
[12:09] BlueWall Slade: if there is an opensource plugin for the TPV, then it would make sense
[12:09] Robert Adams: I think the pathfinding stuff is a kludge, but some of the parameters would be useful
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya but there will be no way to actually create the pathfinding stuff
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: right?
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: we wont actually be able to use it here will we?
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: Dahlia has a lot of it working server side
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes but not with the LL viewers
[12:10] Robert Adams: without a viewer so extended...
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: she wrote her own software
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt use the viewer at all
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: yes
[12:10] Artemis Tesla: Cool Vl has Pathfinding
[12:10] Robert Adams: Need an open source replacement for the physics code
[12:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Personally, I'd rather pathfinding was all server side with scripting hooks.
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: my understanding is, any LL TPV that accepts their Havok licensing, that viewer can no longer be allowed to connect to OpenSim
[12:11] Robert Adams: There has been some work along that line.... even stubs would help
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there will be no loginuri switch or grid manager
[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: You don't need to accept the Havok licence to have pathfinding in the viewer.
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: to create the paths you do
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise it only can view
[12:11] Sarah Kline: No I have now in this version of FS
[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: You only need the license if you have NavMesh preview as well.
[12:11] Sarah Kline: but greyed out
[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: No... you can set everything you need to do pathfinding. You just can't *see* it visually.
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ah hrmm
[12:12] BlueWall Slade: how do you login new version of FS?
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: you have to enable the grid manager
[12:12] BlueWall Slade: ohh, I need to look into that
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its some where in preferences I think
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i still dont use Firestorm
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: just going off what i have heard
[12:12] Richardus Raymaker: its under advanced if i remeber
[12:13] Arielle Popstar: hmm wont instal while i have thissingularity running
[12:13] Sarah Kline: control shift G
[12:13] BlueWall Slade: I logged into SL with it
[12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd prefer to be using Teapot instead of FS. But I can't until Teapot gets that damn IM bug fixed.
[12:13] BlueWall Slade: IM bug?
[12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah... in the IM floater, the chat input textbox sometimes gets grayed out.
[12:13] Richardus Raymaker: well the 2 minutes i used zen today its much betetr in framerate
[12:13] Artemis Tesla: reloging isnt that much of a pain
[12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: I've tried and tried to repro it. I can'tf igure our what causes it. It seeems completely random.
[12:14] Richardus Raymaker: ohh. now i get it why i could not send any IM
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: I can send IM in mine
[12:15] Sarah Kline: I think we should be encouraging to all TPV's and not just put eggs in one basket...just saying
[12:16] Arielle Popstar: good point Sarah
[12:17] Richardus Raymaker: problem with TPV viewers. there more bugs and request of things then the can do. and then instead the fix bugs the choice for new functions
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