Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-17

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[11:01] Sarah Kline: Hello
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: Hi
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: can someone give me for test something useless ?
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: Hello Justin
[11:02] Sarah Kline: Hi Justin
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: intressting..
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: can you give it again ?
[11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves hello
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: hi Andrew
[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: oh it where some folder. not seperate object
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: can you give only 1 of the notecards ?
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: it was a folder that we were all passing around at Lbsa
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: ok
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: i possible decline the first time
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: ok. its going wrong here to thanks bluewall
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: they were no-transfer, I didn't see
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: i get on wright the same problem. double inventory
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: the folder
[11:05] Armin Weatherwax: hi :)
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi Armin
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hey armin
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: this days best is to decline items, then you see them appear double in trash. and then move 1 out
[11:05] Sarah Kline: HI Armin
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: not good if giving no copy items
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: bluewall, can you empty your virtual trashcan in the viewer. then i give you the same notecard back. if you decline see how many you get in trash ?!
[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: tell me when your ready
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: ok
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: two of them
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: ok. so i dont think its my connection ?
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: and its not me ? i heared soemone else that say he get doublkes to. this problem following me for monts. only its easy to spot if you decline them.
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: if you dont decline them the appear sometimes the next day back in inventory
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: maybe it creates an additional one when iyt is declined
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: in second life even if you decline something
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: you get it
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: but it goes into your trash bin
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: it happens with normal acceopt to, sometimes triple
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: if i remember correctly
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: this is placing two
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: Yes, but in SL you get 1 item. not 2 or 3
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: Blunebadon, can you empty your virtual trashcan. then blue can do same test with you. to double check network problems
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: if nebadon get the same problem with blue its not my conenction
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: what do you mean empty virtual trashcan?
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: just empty your trashcan in the viewer. not on website
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: then its easy to spot
[11:10] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          1f34c82: 2012-06-13 04:05:02 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: how many RiRa?
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, bluewall. thats intressting.
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it should just show up on Recent tab
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: i get RiRa Test
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: just one?
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: 1 is no copy / no mod and the other looks full perm
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: no 2
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: that is what I wanted to see
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: cant open both
[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: only want to know if nebadon get the same with you
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: at some points it very nice empty trashcan in viewere dont delete anything. good for testing
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I only got 1 copy
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but its no mod
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: decline this one
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i did decline that one
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: ohh
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: if you accept you get one. and possible tomorrow you find another one
[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: hmm..
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: I get "Accepted"
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: I think v3 auto accepts
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: looks like somewhere double packets get to me ?
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: ohh
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: but it allows you to discard
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: there is no accept
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: crap :O
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: my options are
[11:14] Richardus Raymaker: i think you can disable, fiorestorm in sl i always need to accept
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: "Show" "Discard" "Block"
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: maby becaue its notecard
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: if I do nothing it ends up in Notecards folder
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: if i hit discard, it moves to Trash
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but i only ever get 1 copy
[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: someone else here with SL1 viewer ?
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: I'm on Imp 1.3.0
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: that 3rd one you sent
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: was full perms
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: well its at least not server side here...
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i declined it went into trash
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its still full perms
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: 1 copy?
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: yep
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: ok
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: uhrrmm. how can you ever debug this ?
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: so must be issue with that particular viewer
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: maybe something isolated to all v1 viewers
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: i use singularity now the latest. maby i go switch with firestorm at some point. now the new version looks stable
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive pretty much completely stopped using v1
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: ok. let me login with al on imprudence
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: what's scary is the reduced perms getting flipped to full
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: unless im specifically testing something
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: the 1st 2 you sent me were no copy no mod
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: was the 3rd one supposed to be full perms?
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: yes
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ok
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: so with Zen viewer its working as it should
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: but RiRa got two copies and one was full perms
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: his viewer is displaying two copies - that doesn't necessarily mean the simulator did that
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya maybe something with Singularity
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: one would need to test by relogging after cache clear, or loggin in with a different viewer
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: or check the database directly
[11:19] Armin Weatherwax: talking about viewers - at the german forum I read hatred against V3 in general and Teapot in special with blocking my viewer out of "Close Encounter" with no other reason than the person can. Is that going to be policy in OSGrid?
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: I'm wanting V3
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: how utterly bizarre
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: and I'll start using Teapot soon
[11:20] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey isuing v3 right now
[11:20] Richardus Raymaker: i heared teapot where not anymore under development ?
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: I use the LL V3 beta most of the time
[11:21] Armin Weatherwax: sorry for asking in that ... unfriendly way, however ... as you imagine ... I feel a bit disturbed
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: but, want to use Teapot
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: close encounters have quick problems this days. but thats what you get sometimes with linux
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: noo Armin
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: can't speak for osgrid, though I'm sure it would never be policy to block
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: is OK
[11:21] Sarah Kline: No thats only Akiras policy
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: i plan to switch maby this year to V3
[11:21] Sarah Kline: she has to blame somthing
[11:21] Richardus Raymaker: but i have really not seen problems with V3
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: V3 is pretty exciting for the options we will have when we can get everything aligned
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: I mean it really is a good thing for us
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: it might beomce a whole lot more exciting soon with various changes
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: people don't get it yet
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: server-side baking, etc.
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: wyes
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: Hey Dahlia
[11:22] Richardus Raymaker: one of the bigger reason still is the lightning in viewer 3
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: armin: is "Close Encounters" on osgrid?
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: the environment?
[11:23] Richardus Reinard: yes justin
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: "Lightshare"?
[11:23] Armin WeatherwaxArmin Weatherwax relaxes :)
[11:23] Richardus Reinard: bluewall can you send something to me. to this avatar thats on imprudence 1.4
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: yes 1 sec
[11:23] Sarah Kline: yes Justin
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: no lightshare pretty light envorimental. but its dance area with a UFO
[11:24] Richardus Reinard: this one nebadon :O
[11:24] Armin Weatherwax: hop:// Encounter/128/128/2
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: we have V3 region environment support
[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: singularity again 2
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: it works great
[11:24] Richardus Reinard: send it to my test alt blue and neb
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: Armin - where do you hang out on IRC?
[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: uh, I hope this wasn't behind the recent config thing to allow blocking by viewer string on a simulator level
[11:25] Armin Weatherwax: ah, I'm not much in IRC lately (unfortunately)
[11:25] Richardus Reinard: hope you can give me something blue
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: I can't catch you in SL either, lol
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: RiRa - looking for your alt
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: there
[11:26] Richardus Reinard: nebadon, i get it 2x in trash with imprudence to
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: Armin, maybe some grids will not go to V3 at first for various reasons
[11:27] Richardus Reinard: Imprudence 1.4.0 beta 2
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: but, I think, as a whole, that won't be the case.
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: I don't rellay know of asny major developers working on V1 base anymore?
[11:28] Richardus Raymaker: my experience. inux + opensim can be tricky.. not sad that i switched
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: and why its silent now ?
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: the only difference is in things like gc performance. In anything to do with opensim logic it will be the same
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: singularity is v1 I think
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: but awnyway
[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: Yes dalhia it is
[11:29] Armin Weatherwax: yeah, Inworldz for example - however thats due their ... different ... servers
[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: and ye sjustin, but still linux + mono + opensim i cpould not get working good on new hardware
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: well, I think long as there is a generic V3 available it will do well for the most part
[11:30] Robert Adams: I'm using the new FireStorm and really love it -- a V1ish interface with all the new V3 stuff
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: especially when we can get a couple of things ready
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: web profiles are important
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: Blue, what is Teapot? Another viewer program?
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: i used firestorm in other grid. but there where some problems. the new firestorm looks good. so really thinking about use it here. its the best solution to make the begin step to V3
[11:31] Richardus Raymaker: and thenlater use betetr viewer
[11:31] Armin Weatherwax: I like the metaharper skin best, though vintage has its charme :)
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: teapot is armin's own viewer
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:31] Sarah Kline: Have got search back in Firestorm too
[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: though he also works on FIrestorm, I believe
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: Armin - Tepot is still on bitbucket?
[11:32] Sarah Kline: and surls work
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I should find a viewer program to use instead of Imprudence that has support for mesh
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: *Teapot
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: I like zen but for some reason it was locking up in WP today so now Im using the new singularity
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew, singularity ?
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I really only use the SL viewer so I'm aware when LL breaks something
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I've heard of Singularity
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: but only have mesh view
[11:32] Richardus Raymaker: the just made 1.7.0 available
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: thuog having said that, I only tend to upgrade when I've forgotten to turn off the auto-updater
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: and its got nothing to do with black holes ;-)
[11:33] Armin Weatherwax: yeah, teapot is my guineapig, where I don't have to think about project decisions, and can try new stuff - like just add support for blues web profile url etc
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: which somehows seems tkeep resetting itself from manual to auto
[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: Justin, not sene you build much.. :) so then the default LL is workable
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I was starting to experiment with web search
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: Armin, I stopped on the viewer when I saw how much web integration is needed...
[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I don't tend to exercise the full range of the viewer
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: And I have been making some plugins to help with that in the Robust server
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: ohh, thats true. the sl3 have no search etc ?
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: ohh, Justin
[11:34] Richardus Raymaker: does firestorm have osgrid search ?
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: I'll send a response to the emal re: IntegrationService soon
[11:34] Sarah Kline: it has metaverselink
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't rush - I have a thousand other things to do as well
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: I would like to figure out some multi-tier search/profiles on Lucene
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: something to help with HG
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: only 1000? slacker :P
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: lol
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: BlueWall, multi-tier?
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: I have been messing with soem other stuff too the past couple of days
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: yeah, like it would search across grids, standalones
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: other thing, undo seems to have some small bad habbit to undo in smae cases only the root prim. and keep the child where the are
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, ok
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: so people can find things via HG
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: Lucene is a good search engine
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: no sense in re-inventing things
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: no. All this stuff really is getting more complex thuogh
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: it is
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: profiles were much simpler in the days when they were just filling in blanks in a dialog box
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: I can't wait to get some web profiles with some plugin applications
[11:38] Armin Weatherwax: does osgrid have a search service at all? (the loginmessage doesn't provide one)
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: it does
[11:39] Sarah Kline: it woud be nice to search for users
[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: it would be instressting to know what people holds away from sl3 this days ..
[11:39] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey wonders if nebadon has died :)
[11:39] Sarah Kline: lol
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: in here it's the lack of profiles and search, I think
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: just the render engine alone is enough to switch
[11:40] Armin Weatherwax: impru, teapot and FS look in the loginmessage for the key "search" and the value uri to search service - that works very nice on 3rdrg
[11:40] Richardus Raymaker: well gui is not 100% to
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: + mesh, lightmap projection, etc.
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: it looks noice now
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: nice
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Sarah, user search should work
[11:41] Sarah Kline: I try
[11:41] Armin Weatherwax:
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought nebadon had installed the ossearch and osprofile module
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: alreay a bit used to firestorm for a while and sl3.. so the step is not so big anymore
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: thanks Armin
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: those two modules are only for the old v1 search/profile mechanisms afaik
[11:42] Sarah Kline: yes
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: Armin, if we send this, then it can find the old search?
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: or a web one?
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, the v3 viewers need web based facilities for that same functionality?
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: v3 based viewers
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: exactly
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: yes Andrew
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, :-P
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: that is why I mentioned Lucene for those
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I think those kinds of things are sizeable projects in themselves
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: which, the old ones could wrap a web ui around themselves too I guess
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: search seems to work on singularity
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: probably are
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: on osgrid
[11:44] Robert Adams: If I do a search in FireStorm, I get the OSGrid search results and the SL ads in the margin
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: Armin, so your still working on teapot. (slowly ?)
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Most likely use a separate database for search
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: lol
[11:45] Sarah Kline: you shouldnt be getting SL ads lol
[11:45] Armin Weatherwax: yeah, teapot is still going to be updated, just a bit slower than each week one release (which is anyway better)
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: you are still on the Firestorm/Phoenix team?
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: ok. keep me informed. at soem point i like to install it again
[11:46] BlueWall SladeBlueWall Slade forked Teapot
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: I'll see if I can get a build setup for that
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: I havent tried teapot, what's it like?
[11:47] Armin Weatherwax: yeah, the pathfinding stuff is coming closer, and some new server changes LL wan'ts to do - which probably means fixing a lot of OS functionality
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: anything we can do on the OS side?
[11:48] Armin Weatherwax: Dahlia - Teapot started as continuation of my Kokua work from last year, when the Kokua team kicked it all into trash for starting from 0
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: I tend to lonly look at changes when they happen - too many times in the past LL have delayed or changed things before release
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: are others seeing justin as white clothing to ?
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok I dont think I tried kokua either
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: and even then I'm not sure I will personally have the time for immediate response
[11:49] Armin Weatherwax:
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: didnt know it was ready
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: ty
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I am the Ruth in the white suit
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: Armin, do you have a special set of libs and autobbuild for Teapot?
[11:50] Richardus Raymaker: a good viewer for mac seems hard needed to
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: boycotting Apple
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: :D
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i dont have any apple's at all. onkly the ones you can eat :P
[11:51] Armin Weatherwax: Blue yes, you need the autobuild from my bitbucket (or kokua), and some libs are not stock, too (sadly I can't do mac, that is broken)
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: lol, thats how i know mac from stories
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: ok, I see your repo
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: mac seems to break much
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: lots of libs and things
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: I have an apple wireless router and an old ipod but no more apple purchases for me
[11:52] Armin Weatherwax: Dahlia you can have a first look here ... short video visiting Pathlandia :)
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: why pay 1400 for a system that you can buy for less and betetr ?
[11:53] Dahlia TrimbleDahlia Trimble <-- refuses to support patent bullies
[11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: It's not just full Apple systems. There's also those who just like OS X.
[11:54] Pathfinder.Lester :)
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: OSX isnt bad but I dont see any features in it at all that make me want it over linux or windows
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: old motorola based systems were workhorses
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: When it comes down to the OS, it's mostly a matter of which suits your workflow and needs best
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: They're all more or less equally "good"
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neb, you still here?
[11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: For me, Linux doesn't have enough compatibility with what I use and Windows has usually been a misery to try and do heavy multitasking in. OS X made for a good balance between them.
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am still here
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: osx, linux,windows8 the all go wrong way with gui
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how is that async flag doing, anything crop up?
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: nothing that I could tell
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: seemed to be an improvement
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, cool
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone noticed any differences in behaviour with estates in 0.73 (vs. 0.7.1 days)?
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll probably flip it soon then, though I want a chance to look through the IM code so I'm reasonably sure it won't spring any new race conditions
[11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: Anyway, it would be nice to have an updated Mac viewer that works right, but I understand the issues with getting one working too.
[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: its so long ago i used the old 0.7.1 that i dont know
[12:00] Armin Weatherwax: the biggest problem seems to be that the viewer code uses some libs that are deprecated on lion
[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off now. See you folks around
[12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: see you Justin
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: bye JKustin
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I've got a program to help manage regions. When using it to create a region, the new region would be added to an extstate in 0.7.1 but not with 0.7.3
[12:01] Armin Weatherwax: tc :)
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, see you Justin
[12:01] Pathfinder.Lester take care folks
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