Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-03

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(Created page with "<pre> [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: well, knowing if there are high physics times would help [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya its actually ok if we have less th...")
 
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[11:43] Dahlia Trimble: hi
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[2012/07/03 11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: well, knowing if there are high physics times would help
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[2012/07/03 11:08]  Mike Kayaker: The holiday is tomorow!
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya its actually ok if we have less than 15 avatars
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[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: if not, then you could proabbly rule out physics
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[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: yeah
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
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[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: a lot of people take a week
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: once we cross a certain threshold of avatars
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[2012/07/03 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: holiday?
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: it just explodes
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[2012/07/03 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, 4th july?
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: Hello Dahlia
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[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: Independ-- yeah
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: everyone complains prims are not loading
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[2012/07/03 11:09]  BlueWall Slade: I looked into that inventory issue last week, but hit dead ends - and my debugger was out of sorts
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: cant see any avatars
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[2012/07/03 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: those stats should give some clues too.
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[2012/07/03 11:10]  BlueWall Slade: got that straight now, maybe I can look a little further into it
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: It wouldn't enormously surprise me if some other process is soaking up all the sim time
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[2012/07/03 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi neb
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: and you can use the in-world debugginh things
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[2012/07/03 11:10]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Nebadon
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: like lots of invalid group requests or something
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[2012/07/03 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: heh totally wasnt paying attention to the time
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but why doesnt Lbsa do it
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[2012/07/03 11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: hi
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we can have 40 avatars on lbsa
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[2012/07/03 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: Guess maybe a lot of people may not show up, maybe holiday stuff
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: same box
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[2012/07/03 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: hard to say, surprised more people arent here
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I do not know
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[2012/07/03 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, seems to fluctuate quite randomly wek to eek
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: never ever once has done it on Lbsa
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[2012/07/03 11:12]  BlueWall Slade: so what's up?
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but everytime we use Bade it happens
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[2012/07/03 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: not a lot :)
[11:45] Bea Witched: flying isn't allowed on lbsa so height is restricted
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[2012/07/03 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: took a holiday myself yesterday - not sure it helped much
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: 4-5 meetings in a row it happened
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[2012/07/03 11:13]  BlueWall Slade: haa
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: finally we just moved it here for first time this month
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[2012/07/03 11:13]  BlueWall Slade: it's always good to do
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: we had 25 avatars
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[2012/07/03 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: not much going on here
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: stats were perfect
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[2012/07/03 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: also meens I have 3 days of stuff to catch up rather than 2 :)
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: literally no lag
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[2012/07/03 11:13]  BlueWall Slade: :S
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: you would think if any region was going to have issues
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[2012/07/03 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: did you try the latest opensim? Did it make any change to memory consumption?
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it would be this one
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[2012/07/03 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: I did, and i didnt see much if any change
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol
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[2012/07/03 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: bade has no neighbors
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[2012/07/03 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: memory is still pretty high at times
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its completely isolated
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[2012/07/03 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe a little better, but nothing drastic
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: low prim, low scripts
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[2012/07/03 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I thikn the real reasons are elsewhere - this bug has only been around for 6 weeks or so
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: so bizzare
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[2012/07/03 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: I actually had to back pedal this region
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: thats same as with my physical train test (i stopped with that) 1 train no timeings. when i rezz aseconds train phyics time jump up to 180,ms. like am used toin the past with 1 train
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[2012/07/03 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: was really wierd
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: well, not seeing objects is often a synptom of bad network comms
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[2012/07/03 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: I think the Leap second actually whacked this box out
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: object update packets being completely dropped and the resend system failing
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: it was on Sunday
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya this felt more like a hung thread or something
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: right before the Monthly town hall meeting here
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: and the only thing i can really pinpoint and say its completely different than the other plazas
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: all the regions on this box were using super high CPU
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: is that we meet above 100m above ground
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: was sooo bizzare
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: i wish group IM did not be handles by region.
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: even the empty void place holder regions were using 200% cpu
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise nothing is different
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: so did you actually go back to an earlier version of jurst restart the simulator?
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: anyway i wasnt looking for a solution
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I did that 1st
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i just wanted to present the idea
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[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing changed
[11:47] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: i restarted everything and still super high CPU
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to gather more info
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: so i rebooted the box
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: and then everything was fine
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: object updates dropping? is this a prim/texture heave region?
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: I know there were some underlying linux issues with the leap second and java
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: *heavy
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: but i was reading that a huge portion of the internet servers went crazy after the leap second thing
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no Dahlia, its quite low prims low textures
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: now they are saying it was the Linux Kernel was the issue
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its maybe 7000 prims
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe the same was true of other things as well
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: few 100 textures maybe
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: so much for that idea :/
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: saw a bunch of articles today saying it was the linux kernel
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive tried everyting i could think of
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[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: a lot of servers went crazy
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i literally inspected every script on the sim
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[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: i have no other explination from what i was reading
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i went through the database
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[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: for most servers you had to reboot
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and located every script
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[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: and then it was fine
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: to make sure it wasnt some kind of visitor scanner or something
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[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: which is exactly what happend on this box
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: some kind of radar
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[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: was really bizzare
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt find any heavy scripts
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[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: it just seems odd to me this was the day after the leapsecond thing
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its all like sit scripts and hover text
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[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: and i really had not looked at the box for probably 24+ hours prior to that
[11:49] Richardus Raymaker: also checked for lost AO's and other objects people lose ?
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[2012/07/03 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: it quite possibly was leap second related
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya, i couldnt find anything unusual
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[2012/07/03 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its been fine since the reboot
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: thats not on all the other plazas
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[2012/07/03 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: and never seen it do anything like that before
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, any other opensim topics anybody wants to bring up today?
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[2012/07/03 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i have no other explantaion
[11:50] Mike Kayaker: I have a question about timers...
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[2012/07/03 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: sorry, tried small font.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: hrmm I dont think I have anything else myself
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[2012/07/03 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: 40" (temporarily) is a bit to big as screen
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: shoot Mike
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[2012/07/03 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: lol
[11:51] Mike Kayaker: I seem to be running into a script resource I don't understand
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[2012/07/03 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: sorry 37"
[11:51] Richardus Raymaker: well justin like i sayed in mailinmglist. new version seems to work betetr . sofar i have doen tests on the sim no crashing anymore
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[2012/07/03 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: where on phgone to. sorry to ask neb. did you found what where wrong ?
[11:51] Dahlia Trimble: I need advice on adding properties to SOG
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[2012/07/03 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: no clue, when i rebooted the server it was fine
[11:51] Mike Kayaker: If I have a bunch of scripts running that all have a short (1 second timer)
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[2012/07/03 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: still 06-30 ?
[11:51] Dahlia Trimble: like for pathfincing, whether an object is a walkable
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[2012/07/03 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i never reverted it again
[11:51] Mike Kayaker: the FPS starts to drop
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[2012/07/03 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: i forgot to do that
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: how it affects database and oars
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[2012/07/03 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll do that in a bit
[11:52] Mike Kayaker: I want to have two kinds of timers I guess,
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[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: we did have 25 people here though
[11:52] Mike Kayaker: those that I care if the timer is on time,
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[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: at the Town Hall
[11:52] Richardus Raymaker: strange mike. i have used 0.5s timers (no llSLeep) and never seen frame drops
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[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: it held up really good
[11:52] Mike Kayaker: and others that I don't care
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[2012/07/03 11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: after downgrade it worked perfect yes
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I would find it very surprising if fps drops due to script timers
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[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: actually at 1st it didnt
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: unless you're using hundereds and hundreads of them and never removing them
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[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt until i rebooted the server it ran normal
[11:53] Mike Kayaker: Is there some way I can allow the don't care timers to volunteer to be time sliced?
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I would be pretty sure this is the leap second issue rather than opensim per se
[11:53] Mike Kayaker: like calling llSleep(.0001) or something?
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: Dan Banner had a very good theory we need to test Justin
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: normally we have our Town Hall at Bade Plaza
[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: llSLeep.00001) never works
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: but lately for last 6+ months
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: there is a limit how low sleep can go
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: it runs horrible there
[11:53] Dahlia Trimble: use not_at_target() for a per-frame event
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: we get like 15 people and it starts lagging
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its 0.01?
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: and running horrible
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: or 0.05?
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: ive spent hours trying to figure it out
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember
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[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: erased all kinds of stuff
[11:54] Mike Kayaker: Well, of cource I do a vector calculation and a resize or something on every tick
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[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: basically the sim is almost empty
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its even less
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[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: BUT
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: fastest i have seen is around 0.01 maby but i resits to use llSLeep at all. only in rare cases
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[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: Dan had the idea, that maybe it has something to do with the fact we have our meeting up at like 100+ meters in the sky
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: smallest sleep would be 1ms (0.001)
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[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: thats the only variable I have not tested yet
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hrmm i ok didnt think it went that far
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[2012/07/03 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: do you observe frame time numbers during these tests?
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i thought it was 0.01
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[2012/07/03 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: only thing todo is test it 1 time at lower level before things change
[11:54] Mike Kayaker: but not-at-target would slow down as the FPS goes down...
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: here at Wright Plaza?
[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: i agree with nebadon. i have not seen any difference betwen 0.01 and lower
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: or at Bade?
[11:55] Dahlia Trimble: why would you want to update anything faster than frame rate?
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: no bade
[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: at_target stuff. thats still so unreliable for me
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: bade
[11:55] Mike Kayaker: Actully, I don't care how long the slep sleeps, just want timers on the other side of the sim to stay accurate when have a lot of ddon't care timers running
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: yes its the same server that runs Lbsa Plaza
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. In fact, anything less than 0.001 will get trunacated to 0, no sleep at all
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: and we never have those issues there
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: mike: I wouldn't be surprised if timers are not very accurate atm
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: and? what are the frame time numbers under load?
[11:56] Mike Kayaker: thing is, I build one item, timers work good enough,
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: but we move 15-20 people to bade up at 100m and it runs like pure crap
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the way they operate is somewhat inaccurate
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: I don't know honestly
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: Justin, timers, sensors, at_target are never 100% save for me
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: all I know is that after so many people log in
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: its not a real-time simulation running on a real-time os
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[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: prims stop loading
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: working on some stuff a couple of months back - looks like the events priority is burried below other things
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: you cant see avatars
[11:56] Mike Kayaker: then I rez a bunch of the item, and things get very strange
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, it's easy to see - just open the stats pane
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: at_target was delayed for a long time
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: if the physics time is high then that would indicate an ode issue
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: not at_target(), use not_at_target() *note underscores*
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: we took the region down for now
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: when it finally showed up (way past the target point) it spammed the output pretty bad with many lines
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: oh you mean when no avatars are there?
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: the problem is timers are run on the same loop as a lot of other lsl stuff
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: if not and there is still lots of spare time per frame then it's something else
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: if there's a lot going on then I suspect they could be delayed
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: well no, whenever you get these issues
[11:58] Mike Kayaker: What resoure am I using up that causes the timers to slow down?
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i would need to setup a test
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: and minimum timer resolution on this loop is 100ms
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: we took the sim down
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: lsl is to bad not really multitasking
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: because its completely useless
[11:59] Dahlia Trimble: any event has to be queued anyway
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: are the timeing numbers now more reliable ?
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: url listeners, sensors, dataserver requets
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[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: and yes, then there's a delay/inaccuracy with timer event queueing
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: what i really need to do is setup a new sim
[11:59] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          1f34c82: 2012-06-13 04:05:02 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: and test
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i use sensor(s0 to, but the maby get called once every second or longer
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: on here, for instance, physics time is only about 0.5 - 1.5 ms
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect this area could be improved
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: and also test in bade too
[12:01] Mike Kayaker whispers: So is there a way to do a lag-friendly timer? Like get a timer evey second, but not slow down other scripts if the sim is buisy?
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: with spare time of 17ms or so
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: probably not if the sim is busy
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: every 18 ms frame
[12:01] Mike Kayaker: I mean, a timer that does allow itself to get slowed down, so other timers will not get delayes.
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: so we aren't stressing physics unduly
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm really not sure where the slow down is happening
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: its just so wierd
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: Mike TimerEvent is possible most save, but not reliable if you ned to have strict timeings
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: Bade plaza is like empty
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: this would require rearchitecting the way that timers are handled
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[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: there are almost no scripts
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly so they sit on a separate thread rather than with every other event
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: not many prims
[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: or even setup actual system resource timers
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: and it runs horrible
[12:02] Mike Kayaker: Every timer event in my sim starts getting delays.
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: so strange
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: when we can build on C# 5.0 we should do that anyway
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to come up with some numbers
[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: Mike , do you have physics on the sim ?
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: what's cpu load like?
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: given that all events are queued I'd say its near impossible
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: it feels alone...
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: well this doesn't need c# 5.0, bluewall
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: see what i can fine
[12:03] Mike Kayaker: Yes, but nothing physical rezzed
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, can't tell anything without data
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: ehh ?
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: its been over a month since we used Bade
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: phsiscal but not physical.
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[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant recall any of the numbers now
[12:03] Mike Kayaker: The sim has ODE, but I don't have any physical objects in the sim ATM
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[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I don't know why jhere would work just fine but bade would not
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: ok, thats what i mean
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[2012/07/03 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: its the only region we have trouble with, but its also the only region that we do not gather near the ground
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: its a dedicated server ? not VPS ?
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[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, 100m should hardly make any difference
[12:04] Mike Kayaker: Im not sure, VPS???
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[2012/07/03 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: ya you would think it wouldnt
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I'd like to answer dahlia quickly before she disappearas
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[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: but... who knows
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: go justin
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[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: it would be worth the comparison
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: at the moment, extended sog is difficult. In fact, my favourite solution would be to serialize a separate piece of data to the region, a bit like the moap xml
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[2012/07/03 11:33]  BlueWall Slade: also, it has lots of megaprims
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: the alternative is to add more hard coded fields to prims or primshapes
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[2012/07/03 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[12:05] Dahlia Trimble: ewwww
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[2012/07/03 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: ya there are a bunch of mega prims too
[12:06] Dahlia Trimble: its a SOG property
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[2012/07/03 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: megaprims would certainly be an interesting factor
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: which has to be persisted?
+
[2012/07/03 11:33]  BlueWall Slade: and where the meeting is, there may be some interactions with the bounding boxes
[12:06] Dahlia Trimble: yes
+
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: lots of boxes there
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I know, unofrutnately there is no separate table for sogs
+
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, as I said, need more data
[12:06] Dahlia Trimble: ok how about to a prim with parent id of 0?
+
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: but Lbsa Plaza also has lots of mega prims too
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: if it was a serialization one could conceivably add it to the root prim only
+
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: if somehow physics was soaking up lots of time then that would show up in the stats
[12:07] Dahlia Trimble: so SOP then?
+
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: that whole pyramid is mega prims
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: when you stat serializating properties you get into the expense of that, thuogh I personally don't think it's a huge issue
+
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: all the big boxes that surround the sim
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: the problem is putting this stuff on the region itself
+
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: the floor
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: you have to have a field in the regions db tables
+
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: and its the same server
[12:08] Dahlia Trimble: if I add one how do I handle migrations and oars?
+
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: running same version as bad
[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: you can add a migration like the existing ones to add an extra field. Serialization covers oars, inventory, attachment teleports, etc.
+
[2012/07/03 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: the framework that suspends it
[12:09] Dahlia Trimble: kk
+
[2012/07/03 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: those probably go outside the sim
[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: that needs an explicit change to the serialization/deser code in OpenSim/Region/Frametwork/Scene/Serialization/SceneObjectSerializer
+
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: hrmm
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I would ask that this isn't put directly into master in case there are any issues - something in a branch could be more easily checkable
+
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya hard to say
[12:10] Dahlia Trimble: I'll ask you in IRC before adding anything
+
[2012/07/03 11:36]  BlueWall Slade: I think I remember something about them being > 256m
[12:11] Dahlia Trimble: anyway it would be fields that LL is adding but I dont think they use the normal protocols to share them with viewers
+
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya they are tall
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I would certainly like the opportunity to think about the future data format
+
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i think they are like 300m tall
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: using caps instead of udp?
+
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: but i do not recall how wide
[12:12] BlueWall Slade: does OAR get the V3 environment settings ATM ?
+
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i would be surprised though if they were not phantom
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I don;'t think so
+
[2012/07/03 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately it will be a bit before I can bring it back up
[12:12] Dahlia Trimble: looks more like some proprietary havok encoding
+
[2012/07/03 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: we actually replaced it with another region for OSG5B
[12:12] Dahlia Trimble: over caps
+
[2012/07/03 11:37]  BlueWall Slade: ha
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: uhhhhhhh :)
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: that building is higher then 256m ?
[12:12] Dahlia Trimble: ya
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[12:13] Richardus Raymaker: brrr, havok :)
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: well
[12:13] Dahlia Trimble: but still the properties need to exist
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: actually not sure
[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: the arch supports are 1/2 a cylinder
[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: well, maybe they could just be new fields - that would just be historical practice after all
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: so 300m 1/2 cylinder
[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: just a bit of a pita
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: is only 150m
[12:14] Dahlia Trimble: need a process for this kind of thing
+
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: so it is probably less than 256
[12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
+
[2012/07/03 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: but nebadon. on your vergicle sim you use >512m prims
[12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and get some stuff done
+
[2012/07/03 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: vergicle?
[12:14] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
+
[2012/07/03 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: verhicle
[12:14] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin
+
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: ahh
[12:14] Bea Witched: be well Justin
+
[2012/07/03 11:41]  BlueWall Slade: verticle?
[12:14] Dahlia Trimble: me too lol... bye all :)
+
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but I think Bluewalls point is that in bade
[12:15] Mike Kayaker: thnks all
+
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: the prims might go over the edge of the sim
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia
+
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: vestigal?
[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: mike: do you ever compile opensim or do you stick wityh binaries?
+
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:15] Mike Kayaker: binaries
+
[2012/07/03 11:41]  BlueWall Slade: and maybe the way they intersect
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: see you guys
+
[2012/07/03 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno - I honestly have very little experience with megaprim sims
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming
+
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ya there is something unique going on at bade
[12:15] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
+
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: that i have never experienced in any other region
[12:15] Bea Witched: ty have a good day all
+
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: its very very odd
[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I was going to suggest a tweakable paramter but I'm not sure how much it would help
+
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't heard of any issues with many users at considerable height
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: I need to take off too - take care all
+
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ive gone over the configurations and every prim in the entire sim
[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe I should expose it as a config thing
+
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: higher than 100m in fact
[12:15] Mike Kayaker: next time
+
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: looking for scripts or something
[12:16] Richardus Raymaker: bye blue
+
[2012/07/03 11:43] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: l
+
[2012/07/03 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: well, knowing if there are high physics times would help
[12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: k
+
[2012/07/03 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya its actually ok if we have less than 15 avatars
[12:16] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
+
[2012/07/03 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: if not, then you could proabbly rule out physics
 +
[2012/07/03 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: once we cross a certain threshold of avatars
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: it just explodes
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] BlueWall Slade: Hello Dahlia
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: everyone complains prims are not loading
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: cant see any avatars
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] BlueWall Slade: those stats should give some clues too.
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: It wouldn't enormously surprise me if some other process is soaking up all the sim time
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] BlueWall Slade: and you can use the in-world debugginh things
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: like lots of invalid group requests or something
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but why doesnt Lbsa do it
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we can have 40 avatars on lbsa
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: same box
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I do not know
 +
[2012/07/03 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: never ever once has done it on Lbsa
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but everytime we use Bade it happens
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Bea Witched: flying isn't allowed on lbsa so height is restricted
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: 4-5 meetings in a row it happened
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: finally we just moved it here for first time this month
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: we had 25 avatars
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: stats were perfect
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: literally no lag
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: you would think if any region was going to have issues
 +
[2012/07/03 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it would be this one
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: bade has no neighbors
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its completely isolated
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: low prim, low scripts
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: so bizzare
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Richardus Raymaker: thats same as with my physical train test (i stopped with that) 1 train no timeings. when i rezz aseconds train phyics time jump up to 180,ms. like am used toin the past with 1 train
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: well, not seeing objects is often a synptom of bad network comms
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: object update packets being completely dropped and the resend system failing
 +
[2012/07/03 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya this felt more like a hung thread or something
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: and the only thing i can really pinpoint and say its completely different than the other plazas
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: is that we meet above 100m above ground
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: i wish group IM did not be handles by region.
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise nothing is different
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: anyway i wasnt looking for a solution
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i just wanted to present the idea
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to gather more info
 +
[2012/07/03 11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
 +
[2012/07/03 11:48] Dahlia Trimble: object updates dropping? is this a prim/texture heave region?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:48] Dahlia Trimble: *heavy
 +
[2012/07/03 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no Dahlia, its quite low prims low textures
 +
[2012/07/03 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its maybe 7000 prims
 +
[2012/07/03 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: few 100 textures maybe
 +
[2012/07/03 11:48] Dahlia Trimble: so much for that idea :/
 +
[2012/07/03 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive tried everyting i could think of
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i literally inspected every script on the sim
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i went through the database
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and located every script
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: to make sure it wasnt some kind of visitor scanner or something
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: some kind of radar
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt find any heavy scripts
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its all like sit scripts and hover text
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Richardus Raymaker: also checked for lost AO's and other objects people lose ?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya, i couldnt find anything unusual
 +
[2012/07/03 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: thats not on all the other plazas
 +
[2012/07/03 11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, any other opensim topics anybody wants to bring up today?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:50] Mike Kayaker: I have a question about timers...
 +
[2012/07/03 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: hrmm I dont think I have anything else myself
 +
[2012/07/03 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: shoot Mike
 +
[2012/07/03 11:51] Mike Kayaker: I seem to be running into a script resource I don't understand
 +
[2012/07/03 11:51] Richardus Raymaker: well justin like i sayed in mailinmglist. new version seems to work betetr . sofar i have doen tests on the sim no crashing anymore
 +
[2012/07/03 11:51] Dahlia Trimble: I need advice on adding properties to SOG
 +
[2012/07/03 11:51] Mike Kayaker: If I have a bunch of scripts running that all have a short (1 second timer)
 +
[2012/07/03 11:51] Dahlia Trimble: like for pathfincing, whether an object is a walkable
 +
[2012/07/03 11:51] Mike Kayaker: the FPS starts to drop
 +
[2012/07/03 11:52] Dahlia Trimble: how it affects database and oars
 +
[2012/07/03 11:52] Mike Kayaker: I want to have two kinds of timers I guess,
 +
[2012/07/03 11:52] Mike Kayaker: those that I care if the timer is on time,
 +
[2012/07/03 11:52] Richardus Raymaker: strange mike. i have used 0.5s timers (no llSLeep) and never seen frame drops
 +
[2012/07/03 11:52] Mike Kayaker: and others that I don't care
 +
[2012/07/03 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I would find it very surprising if fps drops due to script timers
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: unless you're using hundereds and hundreads of them and never removing them
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Mike Kayaker: Is there some way I can allow the don't care timers to volunteer to be time sliced?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Mike Kayaker: like calling llSleep(.0001) or something?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Richardus Raymaker: llSLeep.00001) never works
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: there is a limit how low sleep can go
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Dahlia Trimble: use not_at_target() for a per-frame event
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its 0.01?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: or 0.05?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Mike Kayaker: Well, of cource I do a vector calculation and a resize or something on every tick
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its even less
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Richardus Raymaker: fastest i have seen is around 0.01 maby but i resits to use llSLeep at all. only in rare cases
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: smallest sleep would be 1ms (0.001)
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hrmm i ok didnt think it went that far
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i thought it was 0.01
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Mike Kayaker: but not-at-target would slow down as the FPS goes down...
 +
[2012/07/03 11:54] Richardus Raymaker: i agree with nebadon. i have not seen any difference betwen 0.01 and lower
 +
[2012/07/03 11:55] Dahlia Trimble: why would you want to update anything faster than frame rate?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:55] Richardus Raymaker: at_target stuff. thats still so unreliable for me
 +
[2012/07/03 11:55] Mike Kayaker: Actully, I don't care how long the slep sleeps, just want timers on the other side of the sim to stay accurate when have a lot of ddon't care timers running
 +
[2012/07/03 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. In fact, anything less than 0.001 will get trunacated to 0, no sleep at all
 +
[2012/07/03 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: mike: I wouldn't be surprised if timers are not very accurate atm
 +
[2012/07/03 11:56] Mike Kayaker: thing is, I build one item, timers work good enough,
 +
[2012/07/03 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the way they operate is somewhat inaccurate
 +
[2012/07/03 11:56] Richardus Raymaker: Justin, timers, sensors, at_target are never 100% save for me
 +
[2012/07/03 11:56] Dahlia Trimble: its not a real-time simulation running on a real-time os
 +
[2012/07/03 11:56] BlueWall Slade: working on some stuff a couple of months back - looks like the events priority is burried below other things
 +
[2012/07/03 11:56] Mike Kayaker: then I rez a bunch of the item, and things get very strange
 +
[2012/07/03 11:57] BlueWall Slade: at_target was delayed for a long time
 +
[2012/07/03 11:57] Dahlia Trimble: not at_target(), use not_at_target() *note underscores*
 +
[2012/07/03 11:57] BlueWall Slade: when it finally showed up (way past the target point) it spammed the output pretty bad with many lines
 +
[2012/07/03 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: the problem is timers are run on the same loop as a lot of other lsl stuff
 +
[2012/07/03 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: if there's a lot going on then I suspect they could be delayed
 +
[2012/07/03 11:58] Mike Kayaker: What resoure am I using up that causes the timers to slow down?
 +
[2012/07/03 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: and minimum timer resolution on this loop is 100ms
 +
[2012/07/03 11:58] Richardus Raymaker: lsl is to bad not really multitasking
 +
[2012/07/03 11:59] Dahlia Trimble: any event has to be queued anyway
 +
[2012/07/03 11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: url listeners, sensors, dataserver requets
 +
[2012/07/03 11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: and yes, then there's a delay/inaccuracy with timer event queueing
 +
[2012/07/03 11:59] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          1f34c82: 2012-06-13 04:05:02 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
 +
[2012/07/03 11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i use sensor(s0 to, but the maby get called once every second or longer
 +
[2012/07/03 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect this area could be improved
 +
[2012/07/03 12:01] Mike Kayaker: whispers: So is there a way to do a lag-friendly timer? Like get a timer evey second, but not slow down other scripts if the sim is buisy?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:01] Dahlia Trimble: probably not if the sim is busy
 +
[2012/07/03 12:01] Mike Kayaker: I mean, a timer that does allow itself to get slowed down, so other timers will not get delayes.
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm really not sure where the slow down is happening
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] Richardus Raymaker: Mike TimerEvent is possible most save, but not reliable if you ned to have strict timeings
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: this would require rearchitecting the way that timers are handled
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly so they sit on a separate thread rather than with every other event
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: or even setup actual system resource timers
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] Mike Kayaker: Every timer event in my sim starts getting delays.
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] BlueWall Slade: when we can build on C# 5.0 we should do that anyway
 +
[2012/07/03 12:02] Richardus Raymaker: Mike , do you have physics on the sim ?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:03] Dahlia Trimble: given that all events are queued I'd say its near impossible
 +
[2012/07/03 12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: well this doesn't need c# 5.0, bluewall
 +
[2012/07/03 12:03] Mike Kayaker: Yes, but nothing physical rezzed
 +
[2012/07/03 12:03] Richardus Raymaker: ehh ?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:03] Richardus Raymaker: phsiscal but not physical.
 +
[2012/07/03 12:03] Mike Kayaker: The sim has ODE, but I don't have any physical objects in the sim ATM
 +
[2012/07/03 12:03] Richardus Raymaker: ok, thats what i mean
 +
[2012/07/03 12:04] Richardus Raymaker: its a dedicated server ? not VPS ?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:04] Mike Kayaker: Im not sure, VPS???
 +
[2012/07/03 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I'd like to answer dahlia quickly before she disappearas
 +
[2012/07/03 12:05] Richardus Raymaker: go justin
 +
[2012/07/03 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: at the moment, extended sog is difficult. In fact, my favourite solution would be to serialize a separate piece of data to the region, a bit like the moap xml
 +
[2012/07/03 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: the alternative is to add more hard coded fields to prims or primshapes
 +
[2012/07/03 12:05] Dahlia Trimble: ewwww
 +
[2012/07/03 12:06] Dahlia Trimble: its a SOG property
 +
[2012/07/03 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: which has to be persisted?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:06] Dahlia Trimble: yes
 +
[2012/07/03 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I know, unofrutnately there is no separate table for sogs
 +
[2012/07/03 12:06] Dahlia Trimble: ok how about to a prim with parent id of 0?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: if it was a serialization one could conceivably add it to the root prim only
 +
[2012/07/03 12:07] Dahlia Trimble: so SOP then?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: when you stat serializating properties you get into the expense of that, thuogh I personally don't think it's a huge issue
 +
[2012/07/03 12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: the problem is putting this stuff on the region itself
 +
[2012/07/03 12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: you have to have a field in the regions db tables
 +
[2012/07/03 12:08] Dahlia Trimble: if I add one how do I handle migrations and oars?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: you can add a migration like the existing ones to add an extra field. Serialization covers oars, inventory, attachment teleports, etc.
 +
[2012/07/03 12:09] Dahlia Trimble: kk
 +
[2012/07/03 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: that needs an explicit change to the serialization/deser code in OpenSim/Region/Frametwork/Scene/Serialization/SceneObjectSerializer
 +
[2012/07/03 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I would ask that this isn't put directly into master in case there are any issues - something in a branch could be more easily checkable
 +
[2012/07/03 12:10] Dahlia Trimble: I'll ask you in IRC before adding anything
 +
[2012/07/03 12:11] Dahlia Trimble: anyway it would be fields that LL is adding but I dont think they use the normal protocols to share them with viewers
 +
[2012/07/03 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I would certainly like the opportunity to think about the future data format
 +
[2012/07/03 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: using caps instead of udp?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:12] BlueWall Slade: does OAR get the V3 environment settings ATM ?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I don;'t think so
 +
[2012/07/03 12:12] Dahlia Trimble: looks more like some proprietary havok encoding
 +
[2012/07/03 12:12] Dahlia Trimble: over caps
 +
[2012/07/03 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: uhhhhhhh :)
 +
[2012/07/03 12:12] Dahlia Trimble: ya
 +
[2012/07/03 12:13] Richardus Raymaker: brrr, havok :)
 +
[2012/07/03 12:13] Dahlia Trimble: but still the properties need to exist
 +
[2012/07/03 12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
 +
[2012/07/03 12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: well, maybe they could just be new fields - that would just be historical practice after all
 +
[2012/07/03 12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: just a bit of a pita
 +
[2012/07/03 12:14] Dahlia Trimble: need a process for this kind of thing
 +
[2012/07/03 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
 +
[2012/07/03 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and get some stuff done
 +
[2012/07/03 12:14] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
 +
[2012/07/03 12:14] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin
 +
[2012/07/03 12:14] Bea Witched: be well Justin
 +
[2012/07/03 12:14] Dahlia Trimble: me too lol... bye all :)
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Mike Kayaker: thnks all
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: mike: do you ever compile opensim or do you stick wityh binaries?
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Mike Kayaker: binaries
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: see you guys
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Bea Witched: ty have a good day all
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I was going to suggest a tweakable paramter but I'm not sure how much it would help
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] BlueWall Slade: I need to take off too - take care all
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe I should expose it as a config thing
 +
[2012/07/03 12:15] Mike Kayaker: next time
 +
[2012/07/03 12:16] Richardus Raymaker: bye blue
 +
[2012/07/03 12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: l
 +
[2012/07/03 12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: k
 +
[2012/07/03 12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey waves
 
</pre>
 
</pre>

Revision as of 11:21, 3 July 2012

[2012/07/03 11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
[2012/07/03 11:08]  Mike Kayaker: The holiday is tomorow!
[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin
[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: yeah
[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: a lot of people take a week
[2012/07/03 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: holiday?
[2012/07/03 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, 4th july?
[2012/07/03 11:08]  BlueWall Slade: Independ-- yeah
[2012/07/03 11:09]  BlueWall Slade: I looked into that inventory issue last week, but hit dead ends - and my debugger was out of sorts
[2012/07/03 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: hello
[2012/07/03 11:10]  BlueWall Slade: got that straight now, maybe I can look a little further into it
[2012/07/03 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi neb
[2012/07/03 11:10]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Nebadon
[2012/07/03 11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: heh totally wasnt paying attention to the time
[2012/07/03 11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: hi
[2012/07/03 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: Guess maybe a lot of people may not show up, maybe holiday stuff
[2012/07/03 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: hard to say, surprised more people arent here
[2012/07/03 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, seems to fluctuate quite randomly wek to eek
[2012/07/03 11:12]  BlueWall Slade: so what's up?
[2012/07/03 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: not a lot :)
[2012/07/03 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: took a holiday myself yesterday - not sure it helped much
[2012/07/03 11:13]  BlueWall Slade: haa
[2012/07/03 11:13]  BlueWall Slade: it's always good to do
[2012/07/03 11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: not much going on here
[2012/07/03 11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: also meens I have 3 days of stuff to catch up rather than 2 :)
[2012/07/03 11:13]  BlueWall Slade: :S
[2012/07/03 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: did you try the latest opensim? Did it make any change to memory consumption?
[2012/07/03 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: I did, and i didnt see much if any change
[2012/07/03 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok
[2012/07/03 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: memory is still pretty high at times
[2012/07/03 11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe a little better, but nothing drastic
[2012/07/03 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I thikn the real reasons are elsewhere - this bug has only been around for 6 weeks or so
[2012/07/03 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: I actually had to back pedal this region
[2012/07/03 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: was really wierd
[2012/07/03 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: I think the Leap second actually whacked this box out
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: it was on Sunday
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: right before the Monthly town hall meeting here
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: all the regions on this box were using super high CPU
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: was sooo bizzare
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: even the empty void place holder regions were using 200% cpu
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: so did you actually go back to an earlier version of jurst restart the simulator?
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I did that 1st
[2012/07/03 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing changed
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: i restarted everything and still super high CPU
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: so i rebooted the box
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: and then everything was fine
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: I know there were some underlying linux issues with the leap second and java
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: but i was reading that a huge portion of the internet servers went crazy after the leap second thing
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: now they are saying it was the Linux Kernel was the issue
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe the same was true of other things as well
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: saw a bunch of articles today saying it was the linux kernel
[2012/07/03 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: a lot of servers went crazy
[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: i have no other explination from what i was reading
[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: for most servers you had to reboot
[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: and then it was fine
[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: which is exactly what happend on this box
[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: was really bizzare
[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: it just seems odd to me this was the day after the leapsecond thing
[2012/07/03 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: and i really had not looked at the box for probably 24+ hours prior to that
[2012/07/03 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: it quite possibly was leap second related
[2012/07/03 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its been fine since the reboot
[2012/07/03 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: and never seen it do anything like that before
[2012/07/03 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i have no other explantaion
[2012/07/03 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: sorry, tried small font.
[2012/07/03 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: 40" (temporarily) is a bit to big as screen
[2012/07/03 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: lol
[2012/07/03 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: sorry 37"
[2012/07/03 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: where on phgone to. sorry to ask neb. did you found what where wrong ?
[2012/07/03 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: no clue, when i rebooted the server it was fine
[2012/07/03 11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: still 06-30 ?
[2012/07/03 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i never reverted it again
[2012/07/03 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: i forgot to do that
[2012/07/03 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll do that in a bit
[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: we did have 25 people here though
[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: at the Town Hall
[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: it held up really good
[2012/07/03 11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: after downgrade it worked perfect yes
[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: actually at 1st it didnt
[2012/07/03 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt until i rebooted the server it ran normal
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I would be pretty sure this is the leap second issue rather than opensim per se
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: Dan Banner had a very good theory we need to test Justin
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: normally we have our Town Hall at Bade Plaza
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: but lately for last 6+ months
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: it runs horrible there
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: we get like 15 people and it starts lagging
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: and running horrible
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: ive spent hours trying to figure it out
[2012/07/03 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: erased all kinds of stuff
[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: basically the sim is almost empty
[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: BUT
[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: Dan had the idea, that maybe it has something to do with the fact we have our meeting up at like 100+ meters in the sky
[2012/07/03 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: thats the only variable I have not tested yet
[2012/07/03 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: do you observe frame time numbers during these tests?
[2012/07/03 11:27]  Richardus Raymaker: only thing todo is test it 1 time at lower level before things change
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: here at Wright Plaza?
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: or at Bade?
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: no bade
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: bade
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: yes its the same server that runs Lbsa Plaza
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: and we never have those issues there
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: and? what are the frame time numbers under load?
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: but we move 15-20 people to bade up at 100m and it runs like pure crap
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: I don't know honestly
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: all I know is that after so many people log in
[2012/07/03 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: prims stop loading
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: you cant see avatars
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, it's easy to see - just open the stats pane
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: if the physics time is high then that would indicate an ode issue
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: we took the region down for now
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: oh you mean when no avatars are there?
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: if not and there is still lots of spare time per frame then it's something else
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: well no, whenever you get these issues
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i would need to setup a test
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: we took the sim down
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: because its completely useless
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: are the timeing numbers now more reliable ?
[2012/07/03 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: what i really need to do is setup a new sim
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: and test
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: on here, for instance, physics time is only about 0.5 - 1.5 ms
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: and also test in bade too
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: with spare time of 17ms or so
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: every 18 ms frame
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: so we aren't stressing physics unduly
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: its just so wierd
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: Bade plaza is like empty
[2012/07/03 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: there are almost no scripts
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: not many prims
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: and it runs horrible
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: so strange
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to come up with some numbers
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: what's cpu load like?
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: it feels alone...
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: see what i can fine
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, can't tell anything without data
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: its been over a month since we used Bade
[2012/07/03 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant recall any of the numbers now
[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I don't know why jhere would work just fine but bade would not
[2012/07/03 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: its the only region we have trouble with, but its also the only region that we do not gather near the ground
[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, 100m should hardly make any difference
[2012/07/03 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: ya you would think it wouldnt
[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: but... who knows
[2012/07/03 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: it would be worth the comparison
[2012/07/03 11:33]  BlueWall Slade: also, it has lots of megaprims
[2012/07/03 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: yea
[2012/07/03 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: ya there are a bunch of mega prims too
[2012/07/03 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: megaprims would certainly be an interesting factor
[2012/07/03 11:33]  BlueWall Slade: and where the meeting is, there may be some interactions with the bounding boxes
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: lots of boxes there
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, as I said, need more data
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: but Lbsa Plaza also has lots of mega prims too
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: if somehow physics was soaking up lots of time then that would show up in the stats
[2012/07/03 11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: that whole pyramid is mega prims
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: all the big boxes that surround the sim
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: the floor
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: and its the same server
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: running same version as bad
[2012/07/03 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: the framework that suspends it
[2012/07/03 11:35]  BlueWall Slade: those probably go outside the sim
[2012/07/03 11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: hrmm
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya hard to say
[2012/07/03 11:36]  BlueWall Slade: I think I remember something about them being > 256m
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya they are tall
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i think they are like 300m tall
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: but i do not recall how wide
[2012/07/03 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i would be surprised though if they were not phantom
[2012/07/03 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately it will be a bit before I can bring it back up
[2012/07/03 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: we actually replaced it with another region for OSG5B
[2012/07/03 11:37]  BlueWall Slade: ha
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: that building is higher then 256m ?
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: yes
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: well
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: actually not sure
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: the arch supports are 1/2 a cylinder
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: so 300m 1/2 cylinder
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: is only 150m
[2012/07/03 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: so it is probably less than 256
[2012/07/03 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: but nebadon. on your vergicle sim you use >512m prims
[2012/07/03 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: vergicle?
[2012/07/03 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: verhicle
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: ahh
[2012/07/03 11:41]  BlueWall Slade: verticle?
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but I think Bluewalls point is that in bade
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: the prims might go over the edge of the sim
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: vestigal?
[2012/07/03 11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2012/07/03 11:41]  BlueWall Slade: and maybe the way they intersect
[2012/07/03 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno - I honestly have very little experience with megaprim sims
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ya there is something unique going on at bade
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: that i have never experienced in any other region
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: its very very odd
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't heard of any issues with many users at considerable height
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ive gone over the configurations and every prim in the entire sim
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: higher than 100m in fact
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: looking for scripts or something
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Dahlia Trimble: hi
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, knowing if there are high physics times would help
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its actually ok if we have less than 15 avatars
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: if not, then you could proabbly rule out physics
[2012/07/03 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: once we cross a certain threshold of avatars
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: it just explodes
[2012/07/03 11:44]  BlueWall Slade: Hello Dahlia
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: everyone complains prims are not loading
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: cant see any avatars
[2012/07/03 11:44]  BlueWall Slade: those stats should give some clues too.
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: It wouldn't enormously surprise me if some other process is soaking up all the sim time
[2012/07/03 11:44]  BlueWall Slade: and you can use the in-world debugginh things
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: like lots of invalid group requests or something
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: but why doesnt Lbsa do it
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: we can have 40 avatars on lbsa
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: same box
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: I do not know
[2012/07/03 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: never ever once has done it on Lbsa
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: but everytime we use Bade it happens
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Bea Witched: flying isn't allowed on lbsa so height is restricted
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: 4-5 meetings in a row it happened
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: finally we just moved it here for first time this month
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: we had 25 avatars
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: stats were perfect
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: literally no lag
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: you would think if any region was going to have issues
[2012/07/03 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: it would be this one
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: lol
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: bade has no neighbors
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: its completely isolated
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: low prim, low scripts
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: so bizzare
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: thats same as with my physical train test (i stopped with that) 1 train no timeings. when i rezz aseconds train phyics time jump up to 180,ms. like am used toin the past with 1 train
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, not seeing objects is often a synptom of bad network comms
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: object update packets being completely dropped and the resend system failing
[2012/07/03 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: ya this felt more like a hung thread or something
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: and the only thing i can really pinpoint and say its completely different than the other plazas
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: is that we meet above 100m above ground
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: i wish group IM did not be handles by region.
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: otherwise nothing is different
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: anyway i wasnt looking for a solution
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: i just wanted to present the idea
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to gather more info
[2012/07/03 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah
[2012/07/03 11:48]  Dahlia Trimble: object updates dropping? is this a prim/texture heave region?
[2012/07/03 11:48]  Dahlia Trimble: *heavy
[2012/07/03 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: no Dahlia, its quite low prims low textures
[2012/07/03 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: its maybe 7000 prims
[2012/07/03 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: few 100 textures maybe
[2012/07/03 11:48]  Dahlia Trimble: so much for that idea :/
[2012/07/03 11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: ya ive tried everyting i could think of
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: i literally inspected every script on the sim
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: i went through the database
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: and located every script
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: to make sure it wasnt some kind of visitor scanner or something
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: some kind of radar
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt find any heavy scripts
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: its all like sit scripts and hover text
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: also checked for lost AO's and other objects people lose ?
[2012/07/03 11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ya, i couldnt find anything unusual
[2012/07/03 11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: thats not on all the other plazas
[2012/07/03 11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, any other opensim topics anybody wants to bring up today?
[2012/07/03 11:50]  Mike Kayaker: I have a question about timers...
[2012/07/03 11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: hrmm I dont think I have anything else myself
[2012/07/03 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: shoot Mike
[2012/07/03 11:51]  Mike Kayaker: I seem to be running into a script resource I don't understand
[2012/07/03 11:51]  Richardus Raymaker: well justin like i sayed in mailinmglist. new version seems to work betetr . sofar i have doen tests on the sim no crashing anymore
[2012/07/03 11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: I need advice on adding properties to SOG
[2012/07/03 11:51]  Mike Kayaker: If I have a bunch of scripts running that all have a short (1 second timer)
[2012/07/03 11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: like for pathfincing, whether an object is a walkable
[2012/07/03 11:51]  Mike Kayaker: the FPS starts to drop
[2012/07/03 11:52]  Dahlia Trimble: how it affects database and oars
[2012/07/03 11:52]  Mike Kayaker: I want to have two kinds of timers I guess,
[2012/07/03 11:52]  Mike Kayaker: those that I care if the timer is on time,
[2012/07/03 11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: strange mike. i have used 0.5s timers (no llSLeep) and never seen frame drops
[2012/07/03 11:52]  Mike Kayaker: and others that I don't care
[2012/07/03 11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would find it very surprising if fps drops due to script timers
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: unless you're using hundereds and hundreads of them and never removing them
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Mike Kayaker: Is there some way I can allow the don't care timers to volunteer to be time sliced?
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Mike Kayaker: like calling llSleep(.0001) or something?
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: llSLeep.00001) never works
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: there is a limit how low sleep can go
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Dahlia Trimble: use not_at_target() for a per-frame event
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: its 0.01?
[2012/07/03 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: or 0.05?
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Mike Kayaker: Well, of cource I do a vector calculation and a resize or something on every tick
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe its even less
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: fastest i have seen is around 0.01 maby but i resits to use llSLeep at all. only in rare cases
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: smallest sleep would be 1ms (0.001)
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: hrmm i ok didnt think it went that far
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: i thought it was 0.01
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Mike Kayaker: but not-at-target would slow down as the FPS goes down...
[2012/07/03 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: i agree with nebadon. i have not seen any difference betwen 0.01 and lower
[2012/07/03 11:55]  Dahlia Trimble: why would you want to update anything faster than frame rate?
[2012/07/03 11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: at_target stuff. thats still so unreliable for me
[2012/07/03 11:55]  Mike Kayaker: Actully, I don't care how long the slep sleeps, just want timers on the other side of the sim to stay accurate when have a lot of ddon't care timers running
[2012/07/03 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes. In fact, anything less than 0.001 will get trunacated to 0, no sleep at all
[2012/07/03 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: mike: I wouldn't be surprised if timers are not very accurate atm
[2012/07/03 11:56]  Mike Kayaker: thing is, I build one item, timers work good enough,
[2012/07/03 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think the way they operate is somewhat inaccurate
[2012/07/03 11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: Justin, timers, sensors, at_target are never 100% save for me
[2012/07/03 11:56]  Dahlia Trimble: its not a real-time simulation running on a real-time os
[2012/07/03 11:56]  BlueWall Slade: working on some stuff a couple of months back - looks like the events priority is burried below other things
[2012/07/03 11:56]  Mike Kayaker: then I rez a bunch of the item, and things get very strange
[2012/07/03 11:57]  BlueWall Slade: at_target was delayed for a long time
[2012/07/03 11:57]  Dahlia Trimble: not at_target(), use not_at_target() *note underscores*
[2012/07/03 11:57]  BlueWall Slade: when it finally showed up (way past the target point) it spammed the output pretty bad with many lines
[2012/07/03 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: the problem is timers are run on the same loop as a lot of other lsl stuff
[2012/07/03 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: if there's a lot going on then I suspect they could be delayed
[2012/07/03 11:58]  Mike Kayaker: What resoure am I using up that causes the timers to slow down?
[2012/07/03 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: and minimum timer resolution on this loop is 100ms
[2012/07/03 11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: lsl is to bad not really multitasking
[2012/07/03 11:59]  Dahlia Trimble: any event has to be queued anyway
[2012/07/03 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: url listeners, sensors, dataserver requets
[2012/07/03 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: and yes, then there's a delay/inaccuracy with timer event queueing
[2012/07/03 11:59]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          1f34c82: 2012-06-13 04:05:02 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[2012/07/03 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: i use sensor(s0 to, but the maby get called once every second or longer
[2012/07/03 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect this area could be improved
[2012/07/03 12:01]  Mike Kayaker: whispers: So is there a way to do a lag-friendly timer? Like get a timer evey second, but not slow down other scripts if the sim is buisy?
[2012/07/03 12:01]  Dahlia Trimble: probably not if the sim is busy
[2012/07/03 12:01]  Mike Kayaker: I mean, a timer that does allow itself to get slowed down, so other timers will not get delayes.
[2012/07/03 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm really not sure where the slow down is happening
[2012/07/03 12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: Mike TimerEvent is possible most save, but not reliable if you ned to have strict timeings
[2012/07/03 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: this would require rearchitecting the way that timers are handled
[2012/07/03 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: possibly so they sit on a separate thread rather than with every other event
[2012/07/03 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: or even setup actual system resource timers
[2012/07/03 12:02]  Mike Kayaker: Every timer event in my sim starts getting delays.
[2012/07/03 12:02]  BlueWall Slade: when we can build on C# 5.0 we should do that anyway
[2012/07/03 12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: Mike , do you have physics on the sim ?
[2012/07/03 12:03]  Dahlia Trimble: given that all events are queued I'd say its near impossible
[2012/07/03 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: well this doesn't need c# 5.0, bluewall
[2012/07/03 12:03]  Mike Kayaker: Yes, but nothing physical rezzed
[2012/07/03 12:03]  Richardus Raymaker: ehh ?
[2012/07/03 12:03]  Richardus Raymaker: phsiscal but not physical.
[2012/07/03 12:03]  Mike Kayaker: The sim has ODE, but I don't have any physical objects in the sim ATM
[2012/07/03 12:03]  Richardus Raymaker: ok, thats what i mean
[2012/07/03 12:04]  Richardus Raymaker: its a dedicated server ? not VPS ?
[2012/07/03 12:04]  Mike Kayaker: Im not sure, VPS???
[2012/07/03 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I'd like to answer dahlia quickly before she disappearas
[2012/07/03 12:05]  Richardus Raymaker: go justin
[2012/07/03 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: at the moment, extended sog is difficult. In fact, my favourite solution would be to serialize a separate piece of data to the region, a bit like the moap xml
[2012/07/03 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: the alternative is to add more hard coded fields to prims or primshapes
[2012/07/03 12:05]  Dahlia Trimble: ewwww
[2012/07/03 12:06]  Dahlia Trimble: its a SOG property
[2012/07/03 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: which has to be persisted?
[2012/07/03 12:06]  Dahlia Trimble: yes
[2012/07/03 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: I know, unofrutnately there is no separate table for sogs
[2012/07/03 12:06]  Dahlia Trimble: ok how about to a prim with parent id of 0?
[2012/07/03 12:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: if it was a serialization one could conceivably add it to the root prim only
[2012/07/03 12:07]  Dahlia Trimble: so SOP then?
[2012/07/03 12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: when you stat serializating properties you get into the expense of that, thuogh I personally don't think it's a huge issue
[2012/07/03 12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: the problem is putting this stuff on the region itself
[2012/07/03 12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: you have to have a field in the regions db tables
[2012/07/03 12:08]  Dahlia Trimble: if I add one how do I handle migrations and oars?
[2012/07/03 12:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: you can add a migration like the existing ones to add an extra field. Serialization covers oars, inventory, attachment teleports, etc.
[2012/07/03 12:09]  Dahlia Trimble: kk
[2012/07/03 12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: that needs an explicit change to the serialization/deser code in OpenSim/Region/Frametwork/Scene/Serialization/SceneObjectSerializer
[2012/07/03 12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would ask that this isn't put directly into master in case there are any issues - something in a branch could be more easily checkable
[2012/07/03 12:10]  Dahlia Trimble: I'll ask you in IRC before adding anything
[2012/07/03 12:11]  Dahlia Trimble: anyway it would be fields that LL is adding but I dont think they use the normal protocols to share them with viewers
[2012/07/03 12:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I would certainly like the opportunity to think about the future data format
[2012/07/03 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: using caps instead of udp?
[2012/07/03 12:12]  BlueWall Slade: does OAR get the V3 environment settings ATM ?
[2012/07/03 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I don;'t think so
[2012/07/03 12:12]  Dahlia Trimble: looks more like some proprietary havok encoding
[2012/07/03 12:12]  Dahlia Trimble: over caps
[2012/07/03 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: uhhhhhhh :)
[2012/07/03 12:12]  Dahlia Trimble: ya
[2012/07/03 12:13]  Richardus Raymaker: brrr, havok :)
[2012/07/03 12:13]  Dahlia Trimble: but still the properties need to exist
[2012/07/03 12:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2012/07/03 12:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, maybe they could just be new fields - that would just be historical practice after all
[2012/07/03 12:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: just a bit of a pita
[2012/07/03 12:14]  Dahlia Trimble: need a process for this kind of thing
[2012/07/03 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[2012/07/03 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and get some stuff done
[2012/07/03 12:14]  Dahlia Trimble: bye :)
[2012/07/03 12:14]  BlueWall Slade: bye Justin
[2012/07/03 12:14]  Bea Witched: be well Justin
[2012/07/03 12:14]  Dahlia Trimble: me too lol... bye all :)
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Mike Kayaker: thnks all
[2012/07/03 12:15]  BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: mike: do you ever compile opensim or do you stick wityh binaries?
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Mike Kayaker: binaries
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: see you guys
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Bea Witched: ty have a good day all
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I was going to suggest a tweakable paramter but I'm not sure how much it would help
[2012/07/03 12:15]  BlueWall Slade: I need to take off too - take care all
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe I should expose it as a config thing
[2012/07/03 12:15]  Mike Kayaker: next time
[2012/07/03 12:16]  Richardus Raymaker: bye blue
[2012/07/03 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: l
[2012/07/03 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: k
[2012/07/03 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey waves
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