Talk:Virtual World Model - Revision history

Casiasfalta: /* OSGrid and trust domains */

2011-08-19T17:12:44Z

‎OSGrid and trust domains

Casiasfalta: /* OSGrid and trust domains */

2011-08-19T17:11:44Z

‎OSGrid and trust domains

Morgaine: /* The meaning of safety */

2009-06-10T12:40:11Z

‎The meaning of safety

Morgaine: The term "safe" lacks definition

2009-06-10T12:37:56Z

The term "safe" lacks definition

Diva at 16:43, 20 April 2009

2009-04-20T16:43:51Z

Diva at 14:49, 20 April 2009

2009-04-20T14:49:13Z

DaveCoyle at 12:14, 20 April 2009

2009-04-20T12:14:30Z

DaveCoyle: /* OSGrid and trust domains */

2009-04-20T11:42:45Z

‎OSGrid and trust domains

DaveCoyle at 11:42, 20 April 2009

2009-04-20T11:42:19Z

DaveCoyle: added question re: trust domain definition

2009-04-20T11:40:02Z

added question re: trust domain definition

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 I would really like to hear more from the OSGrid community about wishes for the future, 1 year ahead. The only reason why I am making that subtle distinction between Grid and Trust Domain is OSGrid. I mention LL grid, but, really, I have no idea what their plans are, that's just speculation. OSGrid, however, exists. Unifying the concept of Grid with that of trust domain will make the model a whole lot simpler and easier to implement, so if that is what's on the map for OSGrid, it would be good to know. --[[User:Diva|Diva]] 09:45, 20 April 2009 (PST)
-We have 15 regions on osgrid and our role is one of applying the tech that others are developing. When i need to explain what a grid is to an end-user it is a "world of regions" - the world map is my metaphor. Also, as an "application provider", I would probably prefer grid "safety" to be controlled as much as possible by the person who is providing the opensim.exe instance rather then the grid manager. Just my thoughts.
+We have 15 regions on osgrid and our role is one of applying the tech that others are developing. When i need to explain what a grid is to an end-user it is a "world of regions" - the world map is my metaphor. Also, as an "application provider", I would probably prefer grid "safety" to be controlled as much as possible by the person who is providing the opensim.exe instance rather then the grid manager. Just my thoughts. Casias Falta Aug. 19, 2011
 == The meaning of ''safety'' ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:11, 19 August 2011
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	I would really like to hear more from the OSGrid community about wishes for the future, 1 year ahead. The only reason why I am making that subtle distinction between Grid and Trust Domain is OSGrid. I mention LL grid, but, really, I have no idea what their plans are, that's just speculation. OSGrid, however, exists. Unifying the concept of Grid with that of trust domain will make the model a whole lot simpler and easier to implement, so if that is what's on the map for OSGrid, it would be good to know. --[[User:Diva\|Diva]] 09:45, 20 April 2009 (PST)		I would really like to hear more from the OSGrid community about wishes for the future, 1 year ahead. The only reason why I am making that subtle distinction between Grid and Trust Domain is OSGrid. I mention LL grid, but, really, I have no idea what their plans are, that's just speculation. OSGrid, however, exists. Unifying the concept of Grid with that of trust domain will make the model a whole lot simpler and easier to implement, so if that is what's on the map for OSGrid, it would be good to know. --[[User:Diva\|Diva]] 09:45, 20 April 2009 (PST)
		+
		+	We have 15 regions on osgrid and our role is one of applying the tech that others are developing. When i need to explain what a grid is to an end-user it is a "world of regions" - the world map is my metaphor. Also, as an "application provider", I would probably prefer grid "safety" to be controlled as much as possible by the person who is providing the opensim.exe instance rather then the grid manager. Just my thoughts.

	== The meaning of ''safety'' ==		== The meaning of ''safety'' ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:40, 10 June 2009
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	There seems to be an important reference left undefined in this useful page. Various paragraphs refer to "safely exchange messages", "unsafe teleports", and "safe simulator connectivity", but nowhere is the meaning of "safety" explained or illustrated. I can imagine a variety of possible considerations that can give rise to a verdict of "safe" versus "unsafe", such as the desire to safeguard assets, or protect system integrity, or prevent abuse, or simply to disallow unauthorized access, but which of these were intended here? Perhaps all of them? Or does "safety" have a specific meaning in this context?		There seems to be an important reference left undefined in this useful page. Various paragraphs refer to "safely exchange messages", "unsafe teleports", and "safe simulator connectivity", but nowhere is the meaning of "safety" explained or illustrated. I can imagine a variety of possible considerations that can give rise to a verdict of "safe" versus "unsafe", such as the desire to safeguard assets, or protect system integrity, or prevent abuse, or simply to disallow unauthorized access, but which of these were intended here? Perhaps all of them? Or does "safety" have a specific meaning in this context?

−	I think it's worth spending a little time defining what is meant here, because the foundational idea of "trust domain" is currently being described in terms of a fuzzy concept that obscures rather than explains. Yes, we all love the motherhood and apple pie implied by "safe", but what does it actually mean? :-) [[User:Morgaine\|Morgaine]] 12:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)	+	I think it's worth spending a little time defining what is meant here, because the foundational idea of "trust domain" is currently being described in terms of a fuzzy concept that obscures rather than explains. Yes, we all love the motherhood and apple pie implied by "safe", but what does it actually mean in this specific context, for the purposes of model definition? :-) [[User:Morgaine\|Morgaine]] 12:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:37, 10 June 2009
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	I would really like to hear more from the OSGrid community about wishes for the future, 1 year ahead. The only reason why I am making that subtle distinction between Grid and Trust Domain is OSGrid. I mention LL grid, but, really, I have no idea what their plans are, that's just speculation. OSGrid, however, exists. Unifying the concept of Grid with that of trust domain will make the model a whole lot simpler and easier to implement, so if that is what's on the map for OSGrid, it would be good to know. --[[User:Diva\|Diva]] 09:45, 20 April 2009 (PST)		I would really like to hear more from the OSGrid community about wishes for the future, 1 year ahead. The only reason why I am making that subtle distinction between Grid and Trust Domain is OSGrid. I mention LL grid, but, really, I have no idea what their plans are, that's just speculation. OSGrid, however, exists. Unifying the concept of Grid with that of trust domain will make the model a whole lot simpler and easier to implement, so if that is what's on the map for OSGrid, it would be good to know. --[[User:Diva\|Diva]] 09:45, 20 April 2009 (PST)
		+
		+	== The meaning of ''safety'' ==
		+
		+	There seems to be an important reference left undefined in this useful page. Various paragraphs refer to "safely exchange messages", "unsafe teleports", and "safe simulator connectivity", but nowhere is the meaning of "safety" explained or illustrated. I can imagine a variety of possible considerations that can give rise to a verdict of "safe" versus "unsafe", such as the desire to safeguard assets, or protect system integrity, or prevent abuse, or simply to disallow unauthorized access, but which of these were intended here? Perhaps all of them? Or does "safety" have a specific meaning in this context?
		+
		+	I think it's worth spending a little time defining what is meant here, because the foundational idea of "trust domain" is currently being described in terms of a fuzzy concept that obscures rather than explains. Yes, we all love the motherhood and apple pie implied by "safe", but what does it actually mean? :-) [[User:Morgaine\|Morgaine]] 12:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

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 It currently states: "One or more simulators that completely trust each other, operated by one single authority."  Does it really need to be operated by a single authority?  Could I not say I fully and completely trust sims operated by John Smith and/or he fully and completely trusts sims operated by me?  --[[User:DaveCoyle|DaveCoyle]] 11:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
-Yes, you are right. I changed the definition, but I think I know what you are getting at, and the current definition still doesn't capture that. Basically, I think what you're getting at is that each simulator, or each seed trust domain, can extend trust to other trust domains, and this is not transitive: you trust W, but you don't necessarily trust the sims that W trusts. Needs more thinking.  --[[User:Diva|Diva]] 07:50, 20 April 2009 (PST)
+Yes, you are right. I changed the definition. Basically, I think what you're getting at is that each simulator, or each seed trust domain, can extend trust to other trust domains, and this is not transitive: you trust W, but you don't necessarily trust the sims that W trusts. Needs more thinking.  --[[User:Diva|Diva]] 07:50, 20 April 2009 (PST)
 == OSGrid and trust domains ==
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 Sounds like multiple trust domains to me.  --[[User:DaveCoyle|DaveCoyle]] 11:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:49, 20 April 2009
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	It currently states: "One or more simulators that completely trust each other, operated by one single authority." Does it really need to be operated by a single authority? Could I not say I fully and completely trust sims operated by John Smith and/or he fully and completely trusts sims operated by me? --[[User:DaveCoyle\|DaveCoyle]] 11:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)		It currently states: "One or more simulators that completely trust each other, operated by one single authority." Does it really need to be operated by a single authority? Could I not say I fully and completely trust sims operated by John Smith and/or he fully and completely trusts sims operated by me? --[[User:DaveCoyle\|DaveCoyle]] 11:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

		+	Yes, you are right. I changed the definition, but I think I know what you are getting at, and the current definition still doesn't capture that. Basically, I think what you're getting at is that each simulator, or each seed trust domain, can extend trust to other trust domains, and this is not transitive: you trust W, but you don't necessarily trust the sims that W trusts. Needs more thinking. --[[User:Diva\|Diva]] 07:50, 20 April 2009 (PST)

	== OSGrid and trust domains ==		== OSGrid and trust domains ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:14, 20 April 2009
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	I am a region operator on OSGrid. I fully trust sims operated by myself. I fully trust sims operated by a handful of others who I believe will not do anything nefarious to me, my communications, my inventory, etc. I neither trust nor don't trust sims operated by most others, as I neither know them nor have reason to believe they'll do bad things. I do not trust some regions (e.g. DNCH).		I am a region operator on OSGrid. I fully trust sims operated by myself. I fully trust sims operated by a handful of others who I believe will not do anything nefarious to me, my communications, my inventory, etc. I neither trust nor don't trust sims operated by most others, as I neither know them nor have reason to believe they'll do bad things. I do not trust some regions (e.g. DNCH).

−	~~Given what I've just stated, on what basis can one assert that OSGrid is and/or should be a single~~ trust ~~domain?~~ --[[User:DaveCoyle\|DaveCoyle]] 11:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)	+	Sounds like multiple trust domains to me. --[[User:DaveCoyle\|DaveCoyle]] 11:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

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 == OSGrid and trust domains ==
-There seems to be continued disagreement regarding OSGrid and trust domains, so let's discuss it here.  Charles, you removed the sentence "For example, OSGrid has, by nature and intent, several hundred simulator trust domains."  I disagree with it's removal, and based on the -dev list thread everyone doesn't seem to be on the same page.  So let's talk it out.
+There seems to be continued disagreement regarding OSGrid and trust domains, so let's discuss it here.  Charles, you removed the sentence "For example, OSGrid has, by nature and intent, several hundred simulator trust domains."  I disagree with its removal, and based on the -dev list thread everyone doesn't seem to be on the same page on this point.  So let's talk it out.
 I am a region operator on OSGrid.  I fully trust sims operated by myself.  I fully trust sims operated by a handful of others who I believe will not do anything nefarious to me, my communications, my inventory, etc.  I neither trust nor don't trust sims operated by most others, as I neither know them nor have reason to believe they'll do bad things.  I do not trust some regions (e.g. DNCH).
 Given what I've just stated, on what basis can one assert that OSGrid is and/or should be a single trust domain?  --[[User:DaveCoyle|DaveCoyle]] 11:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:40, 20 April 2009
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		+	== Simulator Trust Domain definition==
		+
		+	It currently states: "One or more simulators that completely trust each other, operated by one single authority." Does it really need to be operated by a single authority? Could I not say I fully and completely trust sims operated by John Smith and/or he fully and completely trusts sims operated by me? --[[User:DaveCoyle\|DaveCoyle]] 11:40, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+
	== OSGrid and trust domains ==		== OSGrid and trust domains ==