http://opensimulator.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Key+Gruin&feedformat=atomOpenSimulator - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T16:27:44ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.19.9http://opensimulator.org/wiki/DownloadDownload2011-07-31T04:28:26Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Introduction */</p>
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<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
= Introduction =<br />
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<font color="#ff0000">'''Note 3:'''</font> Many Linux distros (including Ubuntu) ship with only the "mono-runtime" package installed, however you need to install "mono-complete" for some OpenSimulator features such as LSL script commands. You must also use at least Mono V2.4.3 (Ubuntu 10.04 ships with mono 2.4.4 which works fine).<br />
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As OpenSim is still at an alpha code maturity stage, there is absolutely no guarantee that functionality works or is stable.<br />
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= Binary Packages =<br />
<br />
== Current release ==<br />
Binary packages of the latest OpenSimulator release are provided in .zip or .tar.gz form - these are identical apart from the compression format. Once you've unzipped/untarred these you'll be able to run OpenSimulator 'out of the box' in standalone mode - no code compilation required.<br />
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*http://dist.opensimulator.org/opensim-{{LastReleaseVersion}}-bin.zip<br />
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= Installers =<br />
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The OpenSimulator project does not currently provide installers for the latest releases - you're better off downloading the binary packages and just unzipping them - this is equivalent to an installation. However, if you do want an executable installer, here are some links to some install packages.<br />
<br />
* '''0.6.x Mac OS X Installer '''<br />
http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/download/frsrelease/206/706/OpenSimulator-0.6.8.dmg<br />
http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/download/frsrelease/198/587/OpenSimulator-0.6.6-post-fixes-r9993.dmg<br />
<br />
* '''0.6.6 (and other releases/revs) unofficial Debian and Ubuntu Linux .deb packages<br />
http://opensimulator.org/wiki/UnofficialDebPackages<br />
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= Other Distributions =<br />
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<br />
* Diva Distribution, a '''Preconfigured hypergrided standalone,''' binary distribution. Easy to setup and to keep up to date. Windows and Linux/Unix. Download the file diva-rNNNN.zip, unzip it, read README.txt and take it from there.<br />
http://github.com/diva/d2/downloads<br />
<br />
* OSGrid distribution. This is preconfigured for connection of an OpenSimulator instance to http://osgrid.org.<br />
http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/downloads<br />
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= Source code =<br />
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==Current release==<br />
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<br />
*http://dist.opensimulator.org/opensim-{{LastReleaseVersion}}-source.tar.gz or <br />
*http://dist.opensimulator.org/opensim-{{LastReleaseVersion}}-source.zip<br />
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Both these packages are the same except for the compression format.<br />
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= Previous releases =<br />
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[[Release Notes]]<br />
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=Related Software=<br />
* [[Related_Software|Related Software Section]].<br />
* You can also find OpenSimulator modules and other projects on the [http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/ OpenSimulator Forge].<br />
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''Pages by Category:''[[:Category:Users| User-pages]],[[:Category:Development| Developer-pages]],[[:Category:Scripts| Scripts]]<br /><br />
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[[Category:Users]]<br />
[[Category:Developers]]</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2011-07-05Chat log from the meeting on 2011-07-052011-07-05T21:36:18Z<p>Key Gruin: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Vivian Klees: also known as hot dogs<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Jack Benimble: I'm doing burgers<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Jack Benimble: potato salad and baked beans<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Vivian Klees: no apple pie?<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] dan banner: mmm potato salad sounds good<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] Jack Benimble whispers: you bringing some?<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] Vivian Klees: yes it does<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] Vivian Klees: cole slaw<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Doctor Rorrim: still a cloud ?????<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Vivian Klees: yeppers<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Jack Benimble: hate to say it, but the Wal Mart here does a great potato salad<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Doctor Rorrim: heck fire<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] dan banner: yeah i like their potato salad<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] dan banner: and their macaroni salad is good too<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:47] Vivian Klees: sometimes I wish other stores deli sections were better<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:47] dan banner: or as cheap<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:47] Vivian Klees: yes<br />
[17:49] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Vivian<br />
[17:49] Vivian Klees: hi Dutchy<br />
[17:49] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Neb<br />
[17:49] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[17:49] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Richardus<br />
[17:50] Vivian Klees: Hi RiRa, Nebadon<br />
[17:50] Richardus Raymaker: hi d<br />
[17:50] Richardus Raymaker: hi v<br />
[17:54] Sarah Kline is Online<br />
[17:55] dan banner: hi everyone<br />
[17:55] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[17:55] Key Gruin: hi all<br />
[17:55] Richardus Raymaker: hello neb<br />
[17:55] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Dan<br />
[17:55] Vivian Klees: Hi Key<br />
[17:56] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Key<br />
[17:56] Key Gruin: really laggy for me, I might just stay down here hehe<br />
[17:56] Richardus Raymaker: hi key<br />
[17:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya might need to turn down draw distance here a bit<br />
[17:59] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Taint<br />
[17:59] Nebadon Izumi: hows everyone doing?<br />
[17:59] Mugetsu Storm: lagging<br />
[17:59] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Blue<br />
[17:59] Mugetsu Storm: hey everyone<br />
[17:59] BlueWall Slade: Hello<br />
[17:59] dan banner: hello<br />
[17:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi blue<br />
[17:59] Richardus Raymaker: hello snow<br />
[17:59] BlueWall Slade: Hi<br />
[17:59] Dutchy Daredevil: just free for a few hours to bee in here<br />
[18:01] Master Dubrovna: Greetings everyone<br />
[18:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello Master<br />
[18:02] Vivian Klees: hello<br />
[18:02] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Master<br />
[18:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[18:02] Nalates Urriah: Hello<br />
[18:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi<br />
[18:02] dan banner: hey master<br />
[18:02] Mugetsu Storm: hello<br />
[18:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin<br />
[18:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi justin<br />
[18:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi master<br />
[18:02] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Justin<br />
[18:02] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi folks<br />
[18:02] Nebadon Izumi: so OSG4B is coming up, just a heads up, if you want to contribute to the celebrations you can post details on ?<br />
the forums<br />
[18:02] dan banner: hey justin<br />
[18:03] Nebadon Izumi: http://forums.osgrid.org/viewforum.php?f=27&sid=e1d679b12713b06b2d25942f3d198292<br />
[18:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin<br />
[18:03] Master Dubrovna: Hi Justin<br />
[18:04] Justin Clark-Casey: So how's it going?<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: so hows OpenSim running for everyone lately?<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: things are good Justin<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: i am still working on setting up danger grid again<br />
[18:04] Richardus Raymaker: besides the clouds i think it runs ""normal""<br />
[18:04] dan banner: how many places are left for exhibits at osg4b now nebadon?<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: taking a little longer to rsync stuff than i expected<br />
[18:05] Nebadon Izumi: id have to check dan banner<br />
[18:05] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: mostly good - couple of unexplained pauses recently after teleporting sometimes<br />
[18:05] Sarah Kline is Offline<br />
[18:05] Nalates Urriah: I having lots of tp problems. Some friends in the Devokan area are having problems.<br />
[18:05] Nebadon Izumi: that might be Inventory SinSeer<br />
[18:06] dan banner: yeah i havent been having too much trouble either<br />
[18:06] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hmmmm could be - or maybe throttling settings which i'm trying to look up now heh<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya things have been working pretty well for me<br />
[18:06] BlueWall Slade: I noticed pauses when jumping across HG<br />
[18:06] Vivian Klees: strange hg messages tp'ing to grid sims<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: every so often after a teleport my viewer just poofs<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: I think its Imprudence 1.4 beta 1<br />
[18:06] dan banner: using the latest build made a big difference<br />
[18:06] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah, hg is what is giving me the pauses too - but weirdly; i get it in lbsa but not ?<br />
wright<br />
[18:06] Richardus Raymaker: it only seems that when people send TP the fail sometimes.. map TP works then fine<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa is always a lot busier than any other region on the grid<br />
[18:06] Joe Radik has been looking at the type of tables created by default.<br />
[18:07] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: actually could be releated to that - i just startd using impruidence beta1 kast week ?<br />
too<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: that region gets pounded constantly<br />
[18:07] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon. that problem with TP poof i hear more. told you it happens for me when my avatra is invisible<br />
[18:07] Sarah Kline: i crash with that too..went back to 1.3<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya its beta<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:07] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: but it sooooo smooth otherwise lol<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: for best performance its probably not the best choice<br />
[18:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, could be a viewer issue<br />
[18:07] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: maybe i'd just learn to live with the pauses<br />
[18:07] Vivian Klees: what's not mentioned alot of sims are not updated<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: i think next version will probably improve a bit<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: one thing that changed in Imprudnce 1.4 beta 1<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: is inventory<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: inventory automatically loads now<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: hence the pauses when you teleport<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: or open inventory for 1st time<br />
[18:08] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: oh that could be entirely it then<br />
[18:08] dan banner: yeah makes sense<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: before it would not load inventory until you triggered a search or something<br />
[18:08] Andrew Hellershanks: when did Imprudence beta 1 come out?<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: but caching works better in 1.4 beta 1<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: week or two ago Andrew<br />
[18:09] Vivian Klees: 6-22<br />
[18:09] Sarah Kline is Offline<br />
[18:09] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, thanks. I should update my copy. I have 1.4.0<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am using it<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: and mostly it works well<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: teleporting can be wierd a bit<br />
[18:09] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: other than that though my opensim has been working awesome - only problems is items ?<br />
from other hypergrids - but that only happens on sims who have't updated recently, so what can you do<br />
[18:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I like the building features of it.<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: it seems to poof a lot on me<br />
[18:09] Richardus Raymaker: i use it to<br />
[18:09] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that prim align feature is fricking handy<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: but for me teleporting has never been great<br />
[18:09] Richardus Raymaker: no seems very stable here<br />
[18:09] Andrew Hellershanks: SinSeer, indeed!<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: its always hit or miss<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: Imprudence has the best build tools<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to use anything else when im building<br />
[18:10] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, I mostly use it when I'm building so TP issues aren't a big deal.<br />
[18:10] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: like i am willing to suffer the pauses if it's imprudence cause yeah all in all, ?<br />
that's a great viewer<br />
[18:10] Nalates Urriah: After my sim runs for a week or so a reset shows lots of errors. A restart works just fine.<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of errors?<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: a week is a long time<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: if you get a couple days of solid use thats impressive<br />
[18:11] Nalates Urriah: I would have to dig through the log. Take me a couple of minutes.<br />
[18:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I don't remember there being donuts here for these meetings<br />
[18:11] Justin Clark-Casey: donuts, where?<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: i just added that back Andrew<br />
[18:11] Richardus Raymaker: ony not figured out why some regions trigger sound play in imprudence and otehrs it fail. after its ?<br />
trigger it seems to keep running until relog<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: i made that agest ago<br />
[18:11] Joe Radik: I have a question or two about what types of tables to use in MySQL.<br />
[18:11] Justin Clark-Casey: ooh<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: i was cleaning my inventory and found the donut bar<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was from years ago<br />
[18:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, ok. Cool. And two drink machines.<br />
[18:12] Richardus Raymaker: mine are running 7 days now<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: now we just need a nice espresso maker<br />
[18:12] BlueWall Slade: heh, from the bit test region - the doughnut shop<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya actually that was originally from Wright Plaza<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: in the 1st year<br />
[18:12] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i noticed i can easily load 20 npcs and make them sing spooky songs from their cloud ?<br />
mouths, that is awesome ,thanks justin<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it got moved to Zaius Plaza<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: and then it got lost for a while in my invnetory<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: after a major cleaning session one day i found it<br />
[18:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Joe, what choices are you looking at for the tables?<br />
[18:13] Justin Clark-Casey: sinseer: I plan to do more work, but I only really have an opportunity at the very end of the week<br />
[18:13] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hey thats no problem - i'm using the excuse to very slowly learn my way around the ?<br />
code too ;) but singing clouds are awesome to start with<br />
[18:13] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: heck people expect clouds anyways<br />
[18:13] Joe Radik: I thought I saw some conversation that Innodb tables are slower than Myisam<br />
[18:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortunatly clouds will be a problem, maybe forever<br />
[18:14] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the next thing will be to fix appearance. But I want to write tests too to simplify the code and ?<br />
stop things breaking again<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: its gonna be hard to track fixing all those bugs down<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: there is one way i know for sure that causes clouds<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: failed teleporting seems to be the #1 cause<br />
[18:14] Justin Clark-Casey: regarding clouds, I thikn the next thing to do is write some server code that can do more appearance ?<br />
checking<br />
[18:14] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: well i actually noticed for regular users i'm actually getting less cloudy people - ?<br />
just the npcs are like that, but thats expected<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: i have no doubt we can greatly improve cloud issue<br />
[18:14] dan banner: yeah at the least you lose attachments<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: but we'll probably always have clouds to some degree<br />
[18:14] Joe Radik: If I don't disable Innodb, I get a mix of table types created<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: the grid is just to chaotic and spread apart<br />
[18:15] Justin Clark-Casey: joe: which version of opensim are you using?<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: alot of regions are on very bad connections<br />
[18:15] Joe Radik: Fairly close to git master<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: we can only fix so much, be impossible to fix the internet as a whole<br />
[18:15] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: quick question - in the code erm somewhere, i could look it up; i made a note... but ?<br />
does anyone know if the setdefaultappearance code (which is currently commented out) works at all?<br />
[18:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the underlying problem is the second life protocol isn't designed to deal with that level of chaos<br />
[18:15] Sarah Kline: I can log in to LBSA and be a cloud...its easy!<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: its not like SL where the entire grid is professionly hosted and living in a fancy data center<br />
[18:15] Richardus Raymaker: clouds maby not so bad in some degree. as long people can get out of it<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:16] Justin Clark-Casey: sinseer: if it's commented out, probably not. The default appearance still currently needs a client to ?<br />
actual bake and send back textures<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: that does seem improved recently<br />
[18:16] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah thats what i figured<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: not so many people permaclouded<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: it still happens but most people it happens to are not aware they can clear their own appearance on the ?<br />
website<br />
[18:16] Justin Clark-Casey: joe: some tables work better as myisam. Others are reported to be better as innodb<br />
[18:16] Richardus Raymaker: but for some reason some shapes / outfits seems to load not/very bad and others work easy.<br />
[18:16] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that'd be some sweet code to get into the console - the purge appearance one ;)<br />
[18:16] Sarah Kline: why do we look ok to ourselves but not to others<br />
[18:16] Justin Clark-Casey: due to different use characteristics. Region tables are now myisam which appears to be a lot quicker in ?<br />
some circumstances<br />
[18:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think for smaller tables like regions myisam is much faster<br />
[18:17] Nebadon Izumi: on the back end with extremely large tables, innodb has some advantages<br />
[18:17] Joe Radik: I found that all tables starting with "estate" get created as innodb.<br />
[18:17] Joe Radik: Everything else as Myisam.<br />
[18:18] Joe Radik: I should just let Opensim decide?<br />
[18:18] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly they should be myisam as well. But since they're not acessed a lot it doesn't make much ?<br />
difference what storage engine they use<br />
[18:18] BlueWall Slade: we don't user foreign keys or anything<br />
[18:18] Justin Clark-Casey: joe: that would be my recommendation<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think the defaults opensim provide currently are probably best<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: the tables that are innodb are virtually empty most of the time<br />
[18:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Until you have a large asset table, it probably doesn't matter a whole lot which engine is used.<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: unless your running 100's of regions in 1 simulator<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: which is just a bad idea<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably not Andrew<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: though on the simulator side<br />
[18:20] Andrew Hellershanks: sure, 100's of empty regions in 1 sim otherwise that is just asking for big trouble<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: using Innodb seems to be a bad idea for the prims tables<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: loading an oar can literally take 1000 times longer<br />
[18:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? Hm...<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: not quite sure why exactly<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: but yes<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza takes about 9 hours to load on inndob<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: takes like 15 minutes with myisam<br />
[18:21] BlueWall Slade: lol, that's nuts<br />
[18:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I expect innodb's transactional overheads make it take a lot longer<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:21] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: there is a good chance i would gnaw my own leg off trying to escape a 9 hour bootup<br />
[18:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I'm using innodb on the prims tables<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: anytime datastore occurs<br />
[18:21] dan banner: ow<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: its extremely slow with inndob<br />
[18:21] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: the engine was only switched fairly recently<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: if your on master git it should have changed it to myisam for you<br />
[18:22] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'm still on .7.0.2 and haven't moved to 0.7.1-dev yet<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: well you can alter the table yourself<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: or just wait<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: opensim really doesnt care what the table is<br />
[18:22] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[18:22] Richardus Raymaker: you mean 0.7.2dev?<br />
[18:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Has 0.7.2 been released?<br />
[18:23] dan banner: no<br />
[18:23] Nebadon Izumi: oddly enough though the reverse is opposite on the OSgrid Back end Robust databases<br />
[18:23] Nebadon Izumi: we were running MyISAM<br />
[18:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. so I do mean 0.7.1 release with post release fixes<br />
[18:23] Nebadon Izumi: and i couldnt run a query without crashing the grid<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: recently we switched everything to innodb and now i can do pretty heavy query without any impact to the grid<br />
[18:24] Dahlia Trimble is Online<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: but those tables have literally millions of rows<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: 12+ million rows on some<br />
[18:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I only have that situation with my asset table<br />
[18:24] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, innodb does row locking while myisam only does table locking<br />
[18:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Millions of rows that is.<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: our asset db has 28 million rows<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[18:24] Justin Clark-Casey: that makes a big difference for grid services, so they are better off with innodb<br />
[18:24] Justin Clark-Casey: but region tables seem better as myisam<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: i ran some recent stats on osgrid assets<br />
[18:25] Justin Clark-Casey: insertion overheads are certainly much lower<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: we have 28 million or so assets in the database<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: and like 15 million actual unique assets on the hard drive<br />
[18:25] Richardus Raymaker: i think network delay is more problem then database delay<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: we are getting like 50% compression with dupe checking<br />
[18:26] Justin Clark-Casey: sras still working well?<br />
[18:26] Andrew Hellershanks: It is amazing to see how many dupe assets you can have in a busy grid<br />
[18:26] BlueWall Slade: we could probably make better use of things like stored procedures and binding variables to fields - making ?<br />
multiple insertions per call<br />
[18:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya seems to be working good Justin<br />
[18:26] dan banner: lots of dupes im sure<br />
[18:26] Dahlia Trimble: hi<br />
[18:26] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia<br />
[18:26] BlueWall Slade: Hello Dahlia<br />
[18:26] dan banner: hi<br />
[18:26] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think there is huge scope for efficiencies. Though that starts to get messy as db adaptors start ?<br />
to vary significantly<br />
[18:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hello dahlia<br />
[18:26] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia<br />
[18:26] Outback Abbot: Hello everyone :)<br />
[18:26] Sarah Kline: hi dahlia<br />
[18:27] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Dahliaa<br />
[18:27] Nebadon Izumi: hello Outback<br />
[18:27] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Out<br />
[18:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hello outback<br />
[18:27] Richardus Raymaker: oh oar's dont copy parcel owners right ?<br />
[18:27] Justin Clark-Casey: lot more people here today than last week!<br />
[18:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Using stored procedures, etc. can get awkward when you have to deal with different database systems.<br />
[18:27] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: they do<br />
[18:27] Joe Radik had an unplanned day off work.<br />
[18:28] Justin Clark-Casey: thought the owner has to be a valid uuid on the target grid<br />
[18:28] Richardus Raymaker: i copied a region inside osgrid to a new uuid and it lost parcel owner<br />
[18:29] Justin Clark-Casey: to a new region, you mean?<br />
[18:29] Richardus Raymaker: yes<br />
[18:29] Richardus Raymaker: a test region<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: it probably only survives if you keep it in the same grid<br />
[18:29] Richardus Raymaker: its in osgrid<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: being that users UUID wont exit on another grid<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: ah<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: it should not loose ownership<br />
[18:29] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that may just be a bug<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think ive seen that occur<br />
[18:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:30] Richardus Raymaker: i think its a bug to'<br />
[18:32] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim issues?<br />
[18:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hmmmmmmmmmm<br />
[18:32] BlueWall Slade: the Overte CLA - when will that be ready?<br />
[18:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: actually it's been suprisingly stable and good to me<br />
[18:33] Douglas Maxwell: is this the right venue to ask a configuration question?<br />
[18:33] Andrew Hellershanks: The only OS issue I have is that I haven't had time to work on anything related to OS for a while.<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:30] Richardus Raymaker: i think its a bug to'<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim issues?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hmmmmmmmmmm<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.2 Dev 759e855: 2011-07-01 21:47:30 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] BlueWall Slade: the Overte CLA - when will that be ready?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: actually it's been suprisingly stable and good to me<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:33] Douglas Maxwell: is this the right venue to ask a configuration question?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: The only OS issue I have is that I haven't had time to work on anything related to ?<br />
OS for a while.<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] dan banner is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Richardus Raymaker is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry nebadon<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Dahlia Trimble is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: hey no worries<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: it was wierd<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: it kept restarting<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: like someone kept crashing it out<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that was my fault<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I was trying to capture the initial crash text<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: ah did you get it?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Nebadon Izumi: i can get it if you want<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: please<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: and I hit the wrong shortcut on my console, which sent ctrl-c instead<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: not yet<br />
[18:41] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[18:41] dan banner is Online<br />
[18:42] Justin Clark-Casey: same crash<br />
[18:42] Justin Clark-Casey: did you capture it?<br />
[18:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:42] Nebadon Izumi: same crash<br />
[18:43] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, wat doe jij hier ruben ?<br />
[18:43] Ruben Haan: hoi<br />
[18:43] Richardus Raymaker: hoi.<br />
[18:43] Justin Clark-Casey: hi ruben<br />
[18:43] Justin Clark-Casey: do you have a pastebin?<br />
[18:43] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com/4Tmw2XA5<br />
[18:43] Ruben Haan: ff boven kijken<br />
[18:43] Richardus Raymaker: heb je IM gehad ruben ?<br />
[18:44] Ruben Haan: nee<br />
[18:44] Justin Clark-Casey: that's kind of bad because it just appears to be within mono<br />
[18:44] dan banner: did i rez?<br />
[18:44] Nebadon Izumi: i see you dan<br />
[18:44] dan banner: k<br />
[18:44] Richardus Raymaker: your fine dan<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: so ya that sucked<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: twice in a row it happend too<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: so i dunno<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yes - not good<br />
[18:46] Dutchy Daredevil: back i hope ??<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to take a brief look at the relevant piece of mono src once I have it, though I'm not sure it ?<br />
will reveal much<br />
[18:46] Nebadon Izumi: ok<br />
[18:46] Nebadon Izumi: it looks like it got a NaN or something<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: negative number in BlockCoppy<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: BlockCopy<br />
[18:47] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i didn't do it<br />
[18:47] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i think<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: i have seen that crash before too<br />
[18:47] Richardus Raymaker: NaN.. i think i saw that last time to... but then my login of database where wrong<br />
[18:47] Justin Clark-Casey: it looks like mono processing an http reply though - not even touching opensim code directly<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: hmm<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: wierd it happend twice<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: wonder what the heck triggered that<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: atleast Wright Plaza restarts fast now<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: man, why on earth isn't mono writte in java :)<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: only takes about 2 minutes<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: er, opensim written in java, I mean<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[18:48] Ruben Haan: heh<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: something tells me that wouldnt make much difference<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: the jvm and sdk are far more mature<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt mean opensim would be though<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but we wouldn't tend to suffer bugs in the sdk itself, which is what this looks like<br />
[18:49] Nebadon Izumi: i really dont know of anything as heavy as OpenSim written in java that runs well<br />
[18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: there's stacks of enterprise stuff in java<br />
[18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: huge amounts<br />
[18:49] Nebadon Izumi: as heavy as opensim though?<br />
[18:49] Nebadon Izumi: i always try to avoid java stuff myself<br />
[18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: much heavier<br />
[18:50] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, it's all academic<br />
[18:50] Richardus Raymaker: Java. prett headace stuff to.<br />
[18:51] Nebadon Izumi: well hopefully mono improves a bit soon<br />
[18:51] Nebadon Izumi: im more prone to blame opensim though<br />
[18:51] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:51] Richardus Raymaker: and mono is already good now<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: sending stuff to mono it doesnt like<br />
[18:52] Ruben Haan: what was the name of that javabased simulator<br />
[18:52] dan banner: mono is getting better all the time<br />
[18:52] Ruben Haan: open wonderland?<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: open wonderland is absolutely wretched<br />
[18:52] dan banner: thats java<br />
[18:52] Ruben Haan: i hear nothing about it annymore<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: it baffles me that anyone finds it suitable<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:53] Justin Clark-Casey: seems to be popular with education people<br />
[18:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya i just can not imagine why<br />
[18:53] Justin Clark-Casey: and it has features that opensim doesn't have - much better voice, for example<br />
[18:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess i found it to be just awful<br />
[18:54] Justin Clark-Casey smiles<br />
[18:54] Nebadon Izumi: and i have no doubt that there are heavy java apps<br />
[18:54] Nebadon Izumi: but i imagine most of them cost millions of dollars to develop<br />
[18:55] Nebadon Izumi: if opensimulator had huge budget we would be a lot further along<br />
[18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but they rest on a jvm and sdk that are banged about constantly<br />
[18:55] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: budget always helps<br />
[18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: that's the thing - mono doesn't get that kind of workout<br />
[18:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i suppose<br />
[18:55] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: you guys got some offeres of donations when you announced the foundation right? ?<br />
hopefully some of those will help too ;)<br />
[18:55] Nebadon Izumi: its progressing though<br />
[18:55] Ruben Haan: if i marry an old miljonair i will donate some miljons<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: mono 3.0 will probably be a lot more advanced<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: java has a good 10 years on mono<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: maybe more<br />
[18:56] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. need to sort things out<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: mono 2.12 is supposed to have some major fixes<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we'll see some improvements when it hits<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully soon<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: i am running 2.11 on my personal dev box<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be holding up<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: i should update it again<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: i have a feeling though that the HTTP server opensim uses<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: is very very veeeeery buggy<br />
[18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: the stack trace is within mono code<br />
[18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: but yeah, it's not impossible that it's a c# webserver issue<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya but couldnt it just be receving bad data<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: and not handling it well?<br />
[18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: you mean mono or the webserver? Certainly something is handling it badly<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya any of it i guess<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: i know diva has not had good things to say about our HTTP server<br />
[18:59] Justin Clark-Casey: mm<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: probably something were gonna have to deal with at some point<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall too the one we use is no longer maintainted<br />
[19:00] Nebadon Izumi: maintained*<br />
[19:00] Nebadon Izumi: its probably pretty old too at this point<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: doh he crashed<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[19:01] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: doh<br />
[19:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: anyway, anything else anyone wanted to bring up?<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: shame dougla didnt come back<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: douglas*<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: welcome back Justin<br />
[19:02] Justin Clark-Casey: aargh, my viewer is crashing as well, unusually<br />
[19:02] Nalates Urriah: How are we doing with Mesh? Has LL gotten the format to where it can be used?<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: Nalates, sorta<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: physics is screwed up<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: even in SL<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno wtf LL is doing<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: Mesh seems very broken even on the LL beta grid<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: did last week anyway<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: i was doing some testing on Friday, and its really screwed on their grid as well<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: i am totally unable to get anything to make physics mesh<br />
[19:03] Justin Clark-Casey: aren't they supposed to be launching very soon?<br />
[19:03] Nalates Urriah: I've had probs with mesh here and on SL.<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya who Knows Justin<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: i expect disaterous launch<br />
[19:03] Nalates Urriah: They said August. I think they are sweating it now.<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: its sooo far from ready<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: but knowing them, they will still go forward<br />
[19:03] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe they'll just delay<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: and piss off 90% of the grid<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it<br />
[19:04] Richardus Raymaker: if its a disaster.. are we ready here for a new flood ?<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: that would be highly unusual for them to do that<br />
[19:04] Nalates Urriah: I'm betting they roll some time in August but only enable it on the RC's<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: heh honestly I dont expect many more floods from SL<br />
[19:04] Justin Clark-Casey: if it's a disaster there it probably won't be much better here :)<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: I think most people will just move on to something else<br />
[19:04] Richardus Raymaker: Nalates, did the say wich year ?<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: its not any better here Justin<br />
[19:04] Justin Clark-Casey: there isn't something else atm<br />
[19:04] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i tihnk maybe one more flood will happen once word of the hypergrid reachs regular ?<br />
people - it's just that awesome<br />
[19:05] Nalates Urriah: :) No but they did mean this one. After all SLCC is coming up<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: i just mean something else completely<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: xbox maybe?<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[19:05] Justin Clark-Casey: if they wanted to be gaming they would already be doing that<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya well LL has not done anything to address the V2 haters<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: then they are gonna pile a bad Mesh launch on top of that<br />
[19:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know - it seems to me that most ppl are coming round to v2<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: eventually forcing everyone to V2<br />
[19:06] Nalates Urriah: THe Lindens keep hinting something great is in the works. But, no leaks yet.<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: its not gonna go well i expect<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm not that well connected to what's on the street<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: any guesses?<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: they have said on many occasions that once Mesh goes live v1 support will soon die there after<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I think mesh effectively kills v1 - nobody will want to go to a regio nwhere they can't see the content<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[19:06] Nalates Urriah: I thinik V2 is more accepted than most realize.<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: unless there's some massive commitment not to use meshes :)<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: LL has hinted at potentially even blocking it at some point<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be immediate<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: but at some point they likely will block it<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: so we'll see<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: the problem with people flooding here from SL<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: is we are not SL<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: we are very far from any kind of SL replacement with the market places and social stuff<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: etc..<br />
[19:08] Richardus Raymaker: keep it a very slow flood. some people expect to much here.<br />
[19:08] Nalates Urriah: I think they will watch viewer stats. When few people are using it they'll. Block. Several Lindens have said ?<br />
LL will NOT block just let feature creep push them out.<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to say<br />
[19:08] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: yeah<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think LL even knows what they are doing 1/2 the time<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: until the last second<br />
[19:09] dan banner is Online<br />
[19:09] Richardus Raymaker: possible the people that can only run V1 viewers and cant get new pc go find something else.<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: all i can say for sure, is mesh is currently pretty broken<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: from my expereince<br />
[19:09] Nalates Urriah: I think they are too big for most to know what is going on. Each group seems to have their little area and ?<br />
now what is happening there.<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: Mesh actually works better in OpenSim<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you can beleive that<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: i have had waay more trouble on the LL grid<br />
[19:09] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not a huge company though - and now they're all in one location<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya it never was really a huge company<br />
[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: at peak it was what 300-400 employees<br />
[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: in fortune 500 land thats microscopic<br />
[19:10] Richardus Raymaker: its strange, LL have money. everything is on know hardware and the know how everything is setup. and ?<br />
still the do worser then opensim<br />
[19:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I really don't think they do worse<br />
[19:10] Nalates Urriah: Let me say it this way... They don't communicate well among staff<br />
[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: well they have many different problems than we do<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[19:11] Richardus Raymaker: ok, maby i cant descripe it right. but thats best that came up<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: I thought maybe rodvik would change that? He seems a very switched on guy<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: :)<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, I just appreciate the issues that LL have trying to maintain a very large grid and work out a way ?<br />
to go forward<br />
[19:11] Nebadon Izumi: personally I think Rodvik is no more effective than anyone prior to him<br />
[19:11] Nalates Urriah: I expect to find out what he is changing at the SLCC announcments.<br />
[19:11] Nebadon Izumi: i think LL's problem is the nontechnical investors<br />
[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: who tend to drive things there<br />
[19:12] Nalates Urriah: You could be right Neb<br />
[19:12] Richardus Raymaker: whats SLCC ? especially the CC<br />
[19:12] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: yeah, I imagine something should come out at slcc<br />
[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: SLCC is a RL convention for SL users<br />
[19:12] Nalates Urriah: Second Life Community Conferance, I think<br />
[19:12] Richardus Raymaker: ok<br />
[19:13] Nalates Urriah: Search Google for SLCC 2011<br />
[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: we'll see, LL is teetering on the edge right now<br />
[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: things could fall pretty much in any direction<br />
[19:13] Justin Clark-Casey: society of local council clerks<br />
[19:13] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: the edge?<br />
[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya of holding their community together<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: technical progress vs pissing everyone off<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't think sl was every comprised of a single community<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ever<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: oh its not<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: but<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: they dont seem to be making anyone happy lately<br />
[19:14] Mugetsu Storm: sorry to interrupt but are you saying SL is crumbling?<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: LL has been crumbling<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: for quite some time<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I don't say in touch with what's happening enough in ll to tell<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds rather pessimistic to me :)<br />
[19:14] Nalates Urriah: They have a huge amount of daily signups. Plus they are now advertising and bringing in new marketing people. ?<br />
So, they aren't too worried about the existing users.<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to say, there are many factors<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: economy being #1<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: Region counts are steady but not dropping - and they are profitable<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: you do have to attract the new users<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: but LL doesnt seem to be making the best of a bad situation<br />
[19:15] Mugetsu Storm: yeah thats true<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: you cna't just cater to your base<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: they seem to be constantly making things worse for their user base<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: i read a good article about how LL is chasing LL<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: in wht way?<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: at the expense of their own user base<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: there is a good article showing that all the recent development going on at LL<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: is to attract the facebook crowd<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: while pushing their current user base out<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: and the best part is<br />
[19:16] Mugetsu Storm: i heard something about that to<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: after all that work LL did to start integrating for Facebook<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: facebook goes and disables 1000's of Second Life user accounts<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: pretty much spitting in LL's face<br />
[19:16] dan banner: heh<br />
[19:16] Nalates Urriah: I wouldn't beleive that. Facebook has done some stupid stuff. Google+ may push them out and we may see LL do ?<br />
mroe with Google+.<br />
[19:17] Richardus Raymaker: i hear facebook stuff to, yuch<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me see if i can find that article<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty telling at the mentality at LL<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2081707/Eggs-and-Baskets-How-Second-Lifes-Facebook-Marketing-Has-?<br />
Backfired<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: good article i thought<br />
[19:18] Nebadon Izumi: problem with LL going after facebook is facebook requires you to use your real identity<br />
[19:18] Nebadon Izumi: and the majority of SL users dont want to reveal their RL identity<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: if FB finds out your account info is fake, they disable your account<br />
[19:19] Outback Abbot: I have a question friends<br />
<br />
It would support OSGrid As a mass registration of users in the case of: a closure announced by SL?<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: that would be monumentally bad Outback<br />
[19:19] Richardus Raymaker: since when is the RL identty required ? i made acount and froze it. boring.. but cant remeber and data. ?<br />
or forget<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid might not actually survive that honestly<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: we have very limited resources<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: we could never accomidate the kind of load SL generates<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: you need to remember LL on average has around 50,000 users loggged in<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: they have millions of dollars in infrastructure<br />
[19:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I highly doubt sl would ever just close anyway<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[19:20] dan banner: 40k bots<br />
[19:20] Richardus Raymaker: only escape is small HyperGrid then<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think SL is that dire<br />
[19:20] Justin Clark-Casey: at the very worst it would just tail off very slowly, like all the other long lived mmorpgs out there<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: but i also dont think LL is doing enough to keep their hard core user base happy<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: LL is quite small<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: when compared to say facebook<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: or evey MySpace<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: Facebook logs in 50,000 users every minute<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: maybe more<br />
[19:21] Outback Abbot: I understand<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: there is still quite a lot of potential at LL<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: for me its more about what LL is morphing into<br />
[19:21] dan banner: osgrid would break before 1000 i think<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: than me worried about it failing<br />
[19:22] Richardus Raymaker: we saw already weird things around 200<br />
[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya that was before we upgraded our hardware too<br />
[19:22] Justin Clark-Casey: however, until that happens there's no incentive to improve the backend systems<br />
[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: but yes, OpenSim in general has trouble around a few 100 users<br />
[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: well i think its more than just back end system software too justin<br />
[19:22] Justin Clark-Casey: 200?<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: LL has literaly 100's of servers on their back end, not talking about simulators<br />
[19:23] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: where do you think the problem lies when you get up to those numbers? Inventory?<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: but the back end robust like services<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: LL has literally 150+ asset servers<br />
[19:23] Richardus Raymaker: bandwidth is one<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: that cost around 125,000$ USD a pop<br />
[19:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately, this is the reason for having something more like the hypergrid, to spread the load<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: LL has a huge amount of money tied up in infrastructure<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: millions<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: 10's of millions<br />
[19:24] Vivian Klees: Neb anymore testing with null?<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: null?<br />
[19:24] Vivian Klees: nulldb<br />
[19:24] dan banner: null storage<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: oh<br />
[19:24] Richardus Raymaker: problem with HG 4096<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: not really no<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: the method i came up with is very hackish<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: and honestly after discovering that myisam yeilded so much better performance<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: i sorta moved on to other things<br />
[19:25] Justin Clark-Casey: presumably you still have trouble with speedbuilds, though?<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say, i think things have actually been pretty good at the last few speedbuilds<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: of course opensim still gets splodey if you do to much at once<br />
[19:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I see you're not advertising events on the website, currently<br />
[19:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, that might be more to do with core code<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: and really we never gave the null database testing multiple builder testing<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: the null db stuff i did was not perfect by any means<br />
[19:26] Mugetsu Storm: nebadon: whats a speed build?<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: speedbuild is contest thing we do<br />
[19:26] Justin Clark-Casey: still, it's worth bearing in mind. After all linden save out simulator states by the sound of it rather ?<br />
than updating a database<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: you get 1 hour to build a topic of our choosing<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: then everyone votes at the end<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya justin<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: thing is though LL sims are very hard to actually crash<br />
[19:26] Mugetsu Storm: so i building contest<br />
[19:27] dan banner: yes<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: its not so hard to degrade performance<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: but getting a hard crash in LL is almost impossible<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: unlike opensim<br />
[19:27] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: wait i thought 4096 was also a viewer thing - you trying to fix it in server??<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: so unless your writing out states almost every second<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: you run the risk of loosing big swaths of work<br />
[19:27] Richardus Raymaker: 4096 is viewer thing with HG<br />
[19:27] Richardus Raymaker: and teleports<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: my method rwote out states every 2 minutes<br />
[19:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, there is that issue. thogh the same is true for the db approach<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: 2 minutes can be an eternity when your building fast<br />
[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: though admittedly the db approach only saves parts<br />
[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: ok<br />
[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: sinseer: it is a viewer issue<br />
[19:28] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah thats what i thought<br />
[19:28] Mugetsu Storm: i build slowly and it always feels like an eternity<br />
[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: when i was doing my testing there was several times the sim crashed<br />
[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: and restarted and a bunch of stuff was missing<br />
[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: so it was far from perfect in the saving regards, but it did show that when it did work<br />
[19:28] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that 4096 is quite the damper. we should all move sims to lower. (ducks)<br />
[19:29] dan banner: alot can be lost in 2 minutes<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: it was 1000's of times more efficient<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: its sorta like ramdisk vs magnetic disc<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: risk vs reward<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[19:29] Justin Clark-Casey: persisting in the db always carries a high overhead<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: switching to myisam though made a big big difference<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: like i said it went from 9 hour datastore loading WP oar to 15 minutes<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: almost unbelievable improvement<br />
[19:30] Justin Clark-Casey: and you switched script DLLs to not get deleted here as well<br />
[19:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ?<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: correct<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: all the plazas are now<br />
[19:30] Richardus Raymaker: SInSeer, if you know a save way to ove osgrid. without war....<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: sim load time went from 10 minutes to 2 minutes<br />
[19:30] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: richardus lol no i so don't i know it won't happen<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: i also updated the updater scripts to purge the dll's every update<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: so everytime we update we get 1 nasty startup<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: which is fine<br />
[19:31] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: just seems like we could all agree to solve the problem but it'd be like a ?<br />
cataclysm, sooooo much work<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya moving OSgrid would be difficult<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: and honestly moving to me is pretty much giving up on something i know can be fixed<br />
[19:31] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yah and it'd really have to be ever grid doing it to make the problem entirely go ?<br />
away<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: i know as soon as we moved the grid<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: someone would fix the problem<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: then it would have all been for nothing<br />
[19:32] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, like with everything<br />
[19:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: and it is a LOT of sims to move here ouch<br />
[19:32] Richardus Raymaker: whats the sim cpount now ?<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya with virtually no way to coordinate it<br />
[19:32] Justin Clark-Casey: then again, people have looked to fix it in the viewer and failed<br />
[19:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah i was reading bout that justin :(<br />
[19:32] Vivian Klees: those with mega's ouch<br />
[19:32] dan banner: 6300 or so rich<br />
[19:32] Justin Clark-Casey: the graphics problem reminds me of the kind of effect you seee when you go miles up in the air<br />
[19:33] dan banner: 6505<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya well honestly id say 75% of viewer devs are mostly concerned with SL<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: they have no reason to want to fix it<br />
[19:33] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yah<br />
[19:33] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: there is that<br />
[19:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: the devs that are concerned with OpenSim are so overwhelmed with other stuff they just have not made it a ?<br />
priority<br />
[19:33] Richardus Raymaker: right now the need to get up to sl2<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya and unfortunatly the problem is actually worse in V2 from my undersatnding<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: the map issue anyway<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: not the teleporting issue<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: oh ?<br />
[19:34] Justin Clark-Casey: 2048 apparantly<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: ok<br />
[19:34] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah - half of 4096<br />
[19:34] dan banner: SL doesnt need more than their 8 million locations since they dont use any type of HG<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: oh<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: that sounds a disaster for osgrid<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: right SL is like 28,000 to 30,000 simulators in total<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: its less than 1% of what they coould actually handle<br />
[19:34] dan banner: out of 8 million possible locations<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: means pff. 9000-11000 .. auww<br />
[19:34] Outback Abbot: I honestly believe that Opensim viewer should have a new code itself to 100% without any code LL<br />
[19:35] Sarah Kline is Online<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: thats a lot easier said that done Outback<br />
[19:35] dan banner: yeah start coding<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: making a viewer is monumentally harder compared to server side stuff<br />
[19:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe we should have a new Sistine Chapel in my garden<br />
[19:35] Dream Scientist: hello people<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: considering the solution needs to be cross platform<br />
[19:35] Justin Clark-Casey: hello dream<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: and really again, LL has spent millions developing their viewer<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: between licesnsing and developer time<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: its a huge amount of money invested in the LL viewer to get it as far as they did as fast as they did<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: making a similar viewer with volunteers is very hard work<br />
[19:36] Nalates Urriah gave you Errors from Nalates.<br />
[19:36] Justin Clark-Casey: the best choice if one wanted to do that would probably be to try and adapt the current realxtend viewer<br />
[19:36] Outback Abbot: I understand that it is easy to say, but that does not deny that OpenSim is limiting developers to viewers so ?<br />
they can not provide any code previously used in display<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya possibly<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: ive not had much luck with the Rex stuff<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried testing it, its so difficult to use<br />
[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: easy is not been a factor with them it seems<br />
[19:37] Nalates Urriah: I ran into the same thing, Neb. A PITA to setup and use.<br />
[19:37] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, usability is a tough problem<br />
[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:37] Justin Clark-Casey: specially when you don't have tens of thousnads of people actually using it<br />
[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully that improves<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: it comes back to just a few volunteers again though<br />
[19:38] Outback Abbot: I apologize for my bad use of English<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: well Outback the viewer policy is changing<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: but i can almost gaurantee we wont see alot of viewer devs jumping on opensim development<br />
[19:38] Nalates Urriah: When we will see the change take effect for programmers?<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: there are other projects that are forks of opensimulator<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: that do not have viewer dev limitations in their policy<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: and they have literally attracted zero viewer devs<br />
[19:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: soon, but the agreement stuff needs to be worked through in the back first<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: but what will be nice is that the current opensim devs can start looking at the viewer code<br />
[19:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I don't think aurora has a high enough profile at this point<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya well it wasnt just Aurora if you recall<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: there was that openmetaverse project too<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: that went no where<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: may i ask what this meeting is about?<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: i cant recall the name now<br />
[19:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know if that was meant to be a fork or not<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: i dont really get it hehe<br />
[19:40] Justin Clark-Casey: dream: nominally it's opensim/osdev development<br />
[19:40] Justin Clark-Casey: er, osgrid<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: This is developer office hours Dream<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: for OpenSimulator<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: ah ok<br />
[19:40] Key Gruin is Online<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: im not a developer, but come to hang out a bit and listen then<br />
[19:40] Nalates Urriah: No formal agenda so lots of stuff gets talked about<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya i do hope we get a few Viewer devs interested for sure<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: dont get me wrong i think its the right move<br />
[19:41] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: its just off the top of my head i dont know any who i think will just jump right in either<br />
[19:41] Justin Clark-Casey: we just have to get it done now<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: time will tell<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:41] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: well it seems a lot of devs wanna just do their own thing - so we end up with lots ?<br />
of side projects off opensim that have 1 programmer each<br />
[19:41] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: sighs<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is the viewer devs are as overwhelmed with viewer dev as opensim devs are with opensim<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: their time is already extremely limited<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: especailly with the urgency to get on V2 coming up<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: so many things going on<br />
[19:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go, way over time here :)<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully though what we can attraact are people not currently working on the viewer<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: but people who are very familliar with it<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin, thanks for coming<br />
[19:43] Richardus Raymaker: bye jcc<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey: Bye everyone<br />
[19:43] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: thanks justin, have a good one!<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: you still want to go over some of the OSgrid stuff today?<br />
[19:43] dan banner: later justin<br />
[19:43] Outback Abbot: bye Justin<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: maybe later - I'm behind schedule<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll ping you on irc<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: kk give a shout<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey waves<br />
[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: well good meeting, ran a little long today<br />
[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: but if anyone has anything they want to talk about please feel free to speak up<br />
[19:44] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that's okay ;) but i do have to get going myself<br />
[19:44] Key Gruin: just in time for the end lol<br />
[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: heehe hey there Key<br />
[19:44] Key Gruin: Hi Neb hi everyone<br />
[19:44] Vivian Klees: oh no poor Key<br />
[19:45] dan banner: dang<br />
[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: thats ok we mostly spoke a lot about LL today<br />
[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[19:45] Outback Abbot: hi Key<br />
[19:45] Key Gruin: couldnt log in<br />
[19:45] dan banner: i should have logged the first half before the crash<br />
</pre></div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2011-07-05Chat log from the meeting on 2011-07-052011-07-05T21:29:07Z<p>Key Gruin: for your perusal</p>
<hr />
<div>[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Vivian Klees: also known as hot dogs<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Jack Benimble: I'm doing burgers<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Jack Benimble: potato salad and baked beans<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:43] Vivian Klees: no apple pie?<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] dan banner: mmm potato salad sounds good<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] Jack Benimble whispers: you bringing some?<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] Vivian Klees: yes it does<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:44] Vivian Klees: cole slaw<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Doctor Rorrim: still a cloud ?????<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Vivian Klees: yeppers<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Jack Benimble: hate to say it, but the Wal Mart here does a great potato salad<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] Doctor Rorrim: heck fire<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] dan banner: yeah i like their potato salad<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:45] dan banner: and their macaroni salad is good too<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:47] Vivian Klees: sometimes I wish other stores deli sections were better<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:47] dan banner: or as cheap<br />
[17:46] [2011/07/03 19:47] Vivian Klees: yes<br />
[17:49] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Vivian<br />
[17:49] Vivian Klees: hi Dutchy<br />
[17:49] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Neb<br />
[17:49] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[17:49] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Richardus<br />
[17:50] Vivian Klees: Hi RiRa, Nebadon<br />
[17:50] Richardus Raymaker: hi d<br />
[17:50] Richardus Raymaker: hi v<br />
[17:54] Sarah Kline is Online<br />
[17:55] dan banner: hi everyone<br />
[17:55] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[17:55] Key Gruin: hi all<br />
[17:55] Richardus Raymaker: hello neb<br />
[17:55] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Dan<br />
[17:55] Vivian Klees: Hi Key<br />
[17:56] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Key<br />
[17:56] Key Gruin: really laggy for me, I might just stay down here hehe<br />
[17:56] Richardus Raymaker: hi key<br />
[17:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya might need to turn down draw distance here a bit<br />
[17:59] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Taint<br />
[17:59] Nebadon Izumi: hows everyone doing?<br />
[17:59] Mugetsu Storm: lagging<br />
[17:59] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Blue<br />
[17:59] Mugetsu Storm: hey everyone<br />
[17:59] BlueWall Slade: Hello<br />
[17:59] dan banner: hello<br />
[17:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi blue<br />
[17:59] Richardus Raymaker: hello snow<br />
[17:59] BlueWall Slade: Hi<br />
[17:59] Dutchy Daredevil: just free for a few hours to bee in here<br />
[18:01] Master Dubrovna: Greetings everyone<br />
[18:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello Master<br />
[18:02] Vivian Klees: hello<br />
[18:02] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Master<br />
[18:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[18:02] Nalates Urriah: Hello<br />
[18:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi<br />
[18:02] dan banner: hey master<br />
[18:02] Mugetsu Storm: hello<br />
[18:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin<br />
[18:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi justin<br />
[18:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi master<br />
[18:02] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Justin<br />
[18:02] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi folks<br />
[18:02] Nebadon Izumi: so OSG4B is coming up, just a heads up, if you want to contribute to the celebrations you can post details on ?<br />
the forums<br />
[18:02] dan banner: hey justin<br />
[18:03] Nebadon Izumi: http://forums.osgrid.org/viewforum.php?f=27&sid=e1d679b12713b06b2d25942f3d198292<br />
[18:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin<br />
[18:03] Master Dubrovna: Hi Justin<br />
[18:04] Justin Clark-Casey: So how's it going?<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: so hows OpenSim running for everyone lately?<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: things are good Justin<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: i am still working on setting up danger grid again<br />
[18:04] Richardus Raymaker: besides the clouds i think it runs ""normal""<br />
[18:04] dan banner: how many places are left for exhibits at osg4b now nebadon?<br />
[18:04] Nebadon Izumi: taking a little longer to rsync stuff than i expected<br />
[18:05] Nebadon Izumi: id have to check dan banner<br />
[18:05] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: mostly good - couple of unexplained pauses recently after teleporting sometimes<br />
[18:05] Sarah Kline is Offline<br />
[18:05] Nalates Urriah: I having lots of tp problems. Some friends in the Devokan area are having problems.<br />
[18:05] Nebadon Izumi: that might be Inventory SinSeer<br />
[18:06] dan banner: yeah i havent been having too much trouble either<br />
[18:06] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hmmmm could be - or maybe throttling settings which i'm trying to look up now heh<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya things have been working pretty well for me<br />
[18:06] BlueWall Slade: I noticed pauses when jumping across HG<br />
[18:06] Vivian Klees: strange hg messages tp'ing to grid sims<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: every so often after a teleport my viewer just poofs<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: I think its Imprudence 1.4 beta 1<br />
[18:06] dan banner: using the latest build made a big difference<br />
[18:06] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah, hg is what is giving me the pauses too - but weirdly; i get it in lbsa but not ?<br />
wright<br />
[18:06] Richardus Raymaker: it only seems that when people send TP the fail sometimes.. map TP works then fine<br />
[18:06] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa is always a lot busier than any other region on the grid<br />
[18:06] Joe Radik has been looking at the type of tables created by default.<br />
[18:07] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: actually could be releated to that - i just startd using impruidence beta1 kast week ?<br />
too<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: that region gets pounded constantly<br />
[18:07] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon. that problem with TP poof i hear more. told you it happens for me when my avatra is invisible<br />
[18:07] Sarah Kline: i crash with that too..went back to 1.3<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya its beta<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:07] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: but it sooooo smooth otherwise lol<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: for best performance its probably not the best choice<br />
[18:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, could be a viewer issue<br />
[18:07] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: maybe i'd just learn to live with the pauses<br />
[18:07] Vivian Klees: what's not mentioned alot of sims are not updated<br />
[18:07] Nebadon Izumi: i think next version will probably improve a bit<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: one thing that changed in Imprudnce 1.4 beta 1<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: is inventory<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: inventory automatically loads now<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: hence the pauses when you teleport<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: or open inventory for 1st time<br />
[18:08] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: oh that could be entirely it then<br />
[18:08] dan banner: yeah makes sense<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: before it would not load inventory until you triggered a search or something<br />
[18:08] Andrew Hellershanks: when did Imprudence beta 1 come out?<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: but caching works better in 1.4 beta 1<br />
[18:08] Nebadon Izumi: week or two ago Andrew<br />
[18:09] Vivian Klees: 6-22<br />
[18:09] Sarah Kline is Offline<br />
[18:09] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, thanks. I should update my copy. I have 1.4.0<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am using it<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: and mostly it works well<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: teleporting can be wierd a bit<br />
[18:09] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: other than that though my opensim has been working awesome - only problems is items ?<br />
from other hypergrids - but that only happens on sims who have't updated recently, so what can you do<br />
[18:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I like the building features of it.<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: it seems to poof a lot on me<br />
[18:09] Richardus Raymaker: i use it to<br />
[18:09] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that prim align feature is fricking handy<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: but for me teleporting has never been great<br />
[18:09] Richardus Raymaker: no seems very stable here<br />
[18:09] Andrew Hellershanks: SinSeer, indeed!<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: its always hit or miss<br />
[18:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: Imprudence has the best build tools<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to use anything else when im building<br />
[18:10] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, I mostly use it when I'm building so TP issues aren't a big deal.<br />
[18:10] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: like i am willing to suffer the pauses if it's imprudence cause yeah all in all, ?<br />
that's a great viewer<br />
[18:10] Nalates Urriah: After my sim runs for a week or so a reset shows lots of errors. A restart works just fine.<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of errors?<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: a week is a long time<br />
[18:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: if you get a couple days of solid use thats impressive<br />
[18:11] Nalates Urriah: I would have to dig through the log. Take me a couple of minutes.<br />
[18:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I don't remember there being donuts here for these meetings<br />
[18:11] Justin Clark-Casey: donuts, where?<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: i just added that back Andrew<br />
[18:11] Richardus Raymaker: ony not figured out why some regions trigger sound play in imprudence and otehrs it fail. after its ?<br />
trigger it seems to keep running until relog<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: i made that agest ago<br />
[18:11] Joe Radik: I have a question or two about what types of tables to use in MySQL.<br />
[18:11] Justin Clark-Casey: ooh<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: i was cleaning my inventory and found the donut bar<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[18:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was from years ago<br />
[18:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, ok. Cool. And two drink machines.<br />
[18:12] Richardus Raymaker: mine are running 7 days now<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: now we just need a nice espresso maker<br />
[18:12] BlueWall Slade: heh, from the bit test region - the doughnut shop<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya actually that was originally from Wright Plaza<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: in the 1st year<br />
[18:12] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i noticed i can easily load 20 npcs and make them sing spooky songs from their cloud ?<br />
mouths, that is awesome ,thanks justin<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it got moved to Zaius Plaza<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: and then it got lost for a while in my invnetory<br />
[18:12] Nebadon Izumi: after a major cleaning session one day i found it<br />
[18:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Joe, what choices are you looking at for the tables?<br />
[18:13] Justin Clark-Casey: sinseer: I plan to do more work, but I only really have an opportunity at the very end of the week<br />
[18:13] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hey thats no problem - i'm using the excuse to very slowly learn my way around the ?<br />
code too ;) but singing clouds are awesome to start with<br />
[18:13] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: heck people expect clouds anyways<br />
[18:13] Joe Radik: I thought I saw some conversation that Innodb tables are slower than Myisam<br />
[18:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortunatly clouds will be a problem, maybe forever<br />
[18:14] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the next thing will be to fix appearance. But I want to write tests too to simplify the code and ?<br />
stop things breaking again<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: its gonna be hard to track fixing all those bugs down<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: there is one way i know for sure that causes clouds<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: failed teleporting seems to be the #1 cause<br />
[18:14] Justin Clark-Casey: regarding clouds, I thikn the next thing to do is write some server code that can do more appearance ?<br />
checking<br />
[18:14] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: well i actually noticed for regular users i'm actually getting less cloudy people - ?<br />
just the npcs are like that, but thats expected<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: i have no doubt we can greatly improve cloud issue<br />
[18:14] dan banner: yeah at the least you lose attachments<br />
[18:14] Nebadon Izumi: but we'll probably always have clouds to some degree<br />
[18:14] Joe Radik: If I don't disable Innodb, I get a mix of table types created<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: the grid is just to chaotic and spread apart<br />
[18:15] Justin Clark-Casey: joe: which version of opensim are you using?<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: alot of regions are on very bad connections<br />
[18:15] Joe Radik: Fairly close to git master<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: we can only fix so much, be impossible to fix the internet as a whole<br />
[18:15] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: quick question - in the code erm somewhere, i could look it up; i made a note... but ?<br />
does anyone know if the setdefaultappearance code (which is currently commented out) works at all?<br />
[18:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the underlying problem is the second life protocol isn't designed to deal with that level of chaos<br />
[18:15] Sarah Kline: I can log in to LBSA and be a cloud...its easy!<br />
[18:15] Nebadon Izumi: its not like SL where the entire grid is professionly hosted and living in a fancy data center<br />
[18:15] Richardus Raymaker: clouds maby not so bad in some degree. as long people can get out of it<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:16] Justin Clark-Casey: sinseer: if it's commented out, probably not. The default appearance still currently needs a client to ?<br />
actual bake and send back textures<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: that does seem improved recently<br />
[18:16] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah thats what i figured<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: not so many people permaclouded<br />
[18:16] Nebadon Izumi: it still happens but most people it happens to are not aware they can clear their own appearance on the ?<br />
website<br />
[18:16] Justin Clark-Casey: joe: some tables work better as myisam. Others are reported to be better as innodb<br />
[18:16] Richardus Raymaker: but for some reason some shapes / outfits seems to load not/very bad and others work easy.<br />
[18:16] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that'd be some sweet code to get into the console - the purge appearance one ;)<br />
[18:16] Sarah Kline: why do we look ok to ourselves but not to others<br />
[18:16] Justin Clark-Casey: due to different use characteristics. Region tables are now myisam which appears to be a lot quicker in ?<br />
some circumstances<br />
[18:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think for smaller tables like regions myisam is much faster<br />
[18:17] Nebadon Izumi: on the back end with extremely large tables, innodb has some advantages<br />
[18:17] Joe Radik: I found that all tables starting with "estate" get created as innodb.<br />
[18:17] Joe Radik: Everything else as Myisam.<br />
[18:18] Joe Radik: I should just let Opensim decide?<br />
[18:18] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly they should be myisam as well. But since they're not acessed a lot it doesn't make much ?<br />
difference what storage engine they use<br />
[18:18] BlueWall Slade: we don't user foreign keys or anything<br />
[18:18] Justin Clark-Casey: joe: that would be my recommendation<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think the defaults opensim provide currently are probably best<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: the tables that are innodb are virtually empty most of the time<br />
[18:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Until you have a large asset table, it probably doesn't matter a whole lot which engine is used.<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: unless your running 100's of regions in 1 simulator<br />
[18:19] Nebadon Izumi: which is just a bad idea<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably not Andrew<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: though on the simulator side<br />
[18:20] Andrew Hellershanks: sure, 100's of empty regions in 1 sim otherwise that is just asking for big trouble<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: using Innodb seems to be a bad idea for the prims tables<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: loading an oar can literally take 1000 times longer<br />
[18:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? Hm...<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: not quite sure why exactly<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: but yes<br />
[18:20] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza takes about 9 hours to load on inndob<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: takes like 15 minutes with myisam<br />
[18:21] BlueWall Slade: lol, that's nuts<br />
[18:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I expect innodb's transactional overheads make it take a lot longer<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:21] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: there is a good chance i would gnaw my own leg off trying to escape a 9 hour bootup<br />
[18:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I'm using innodb on the prims tables<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: anytime datastore occurs<br />
[18:21] dan banner: ow<br />
[18:21] Nebadon Izumi: its extremely slow with inndob<br />
[18:21] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: the engine was only switched fairly recently<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: if your on master git it should have changed it to myisam for you<br />
[18:22] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'm still on .7.0.2 and haven't moved to 0.7.1-dev yet<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: well you can alter the table yourself<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: or just wait<br />
[18:22] Nebadon Izumi: opensim really doesnt care what the table is<br />
[18:22] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[18:22] Richardus Raymaker: you mean 0.7.2dev?<br />
[18:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Has 0.7.2 been released?<br />
[18:23] dan banner: no<br />
[18:23] Nebadon Izumi: oddly enough though the reverse is opposite on the OSgrid Back end Robust databases<br />
[18:23] Nebadon Izumi: we were running MyISAM<br />
[18:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. so I do mean 0.7.1 release with post release fixes<br />
[18:23] Nebadon Izumi: and i couldnt run a query without crashing the grid<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: recently we switched everything to innodb and now i can do pretty heavy query without any impact to the grid<br />
[18:24] Dahlia Trimble is Online<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: but those tables have literally millions of rows<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: 12+ million rows on some<br />
[18:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I only have that situation with my asset table<br />
[18:24] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, innodb does row locking while myisam only does table locking<br />
[18:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Millions of rows that is.<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: our asset db has 28 million rows<br />
[18:24] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[18:24] Justin Clark-Casey: that makes a big difference for grid services, so they are better off with innodb<br />
[18:24] Justin Clark-Casey: but region tables seem better as myisam<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: i ran some recent stats on osgrid assets<br />
[18:25] Justin Clark-Casey: insertion overheads are certainly much lower<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: we have 28 million or so assets in the database<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: and like 15 million actual unique assets on the hard drive<br />
[18:25] Richardus Raymaker: i think network delay is more problem then database delay<br />
[18:25] Nebadon Izumi: we are getting like 50% compression with dupe checking<br />
[18:26] Justin Clark-Casey: sras still working well?<br />
[18:26] Andrew Hellershanks: It is amazing to see how many dupe assets you can have in a busy grid<br />
[18:26] BlueWall Slade: we could probably make better use of things like stored procedures and binding variables to fields - making ?<br />
multiple insertions per call<br />
[18:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya seems to be working good Justin<br />
[18:26] dan banner: lots of dupes im sure<br />
[18:26] Dahlia Trimble: hi<br />
[18:26] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia<br />
[18:26] BlueWall Slade: Hello Dahlia<br />
[18:26] dan banner: hi<br />
[18:26] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think there is huge scope for efficiencies. Though that starts to get messy as db adaptors start ?<br />
to vary significantly<br />
[18:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hello dahlia<br />
[18:26] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia<br />
[18:26] Outback Abbot: Hello everyone :)<br />
[18:26] Sarah Kline: hi dahlia<br />
[18:27] Dutchy Daredevil: Hi Dahliaa<br />
[18:27] Nebadon Izumi: hello Outback<br />
[18:27] Dutchy Daredevil: hi Out<br />
[18:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hello outback<br />
[18:27] Richardus Raymaker: oh oar's dont copy parcel owners right ?<br />
[18:27] Justin Clark-Casey: lot more people here today than last week!<br />
[18:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Using stored procedures, etc. can get awkward when you have to deal with different database systems.<br />
[18:27] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: they do<br />
[18:27] Joe Radik had an unplanned day off work.<br />
[18:28] Justin Clark-Casey: thought the owner has to be a valid uuid on the target grid<br />
[18:28] Richardus Raymaker: i copied a region inside osgrid to a new uuid and it lost parcel owner<br />
[18:29] Justin Clark-Casey: to a new region, you mean?<br />
[18:29] Richardus Raymaker: yes<br />
[18:29] Richardus Raymaker: a test region<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: it probably only survives if you keep it in the same grid<br />
[18:29] Richardus Raymaker: its in osgrid<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: being that users UUID wont exit on another grid<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: ah<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: it should not loose ownership<br />
[18:29] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that may just be a bug<br />
[18:29] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think ive seen that occur<br />
[18:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:30] Richardus Raymaker: i think its a bug to'<br />
[18:32] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim issues?<br />
[18:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hmmmmmmmmmm<br />
[18:32] BlueWall Slade: the Overte CLA - when will that be ready?<br />
[18:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: actually it's been suprisingly stable and good to me<br />
[18:33] Douglas Maxwell: is this the right venue to ask a configuration question?<br />
[18:33] Andrew Hellershanks: The only OS issue I have is that I haven't had time to work on anything related to OS for a while.<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:30] Richardus Raymaker: i think its a bug to'<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim issues?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: hmmmmmmmmmm<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.2 Dev 759e855: 2011-07-01 21:47:30 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] BlueWall Slade: the Overte CLA - when will that be ready?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: actually it's been suprisingly stable and good to me<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:33] Douglas Maxwell: is this the right venue to ask a configuration question?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: The only OS issue I have is that I haven't had time to work on anything related to ?<br />
OS for a while.<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] dan banner is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Richardus Raymaker is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry nebadon<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Dahlia Trimble is Online<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: hey no worries<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: it was wierd<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: it kept restarting<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: like someone kept crashing it out<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that was my fault<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I was trying to capture the initial crash text<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:37] Nebadon Izumi: ah did you get it?<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Nebadon Izumi: i can get it if you want<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: please<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: and I hit the wrong shortcut on my console, which sent ctrl-c instead<br />
[18:41] [2011/07/05 10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: not yet<br />
[18:41] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[18:41] dan banner is Online<br />
[18:42] Justin Clark-Casey: same crash<br />
[18:42] Justin Clark-Casey: did you capture it?<br />
[18:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[18:42] Nebadon Izumi: same crash<br />
[18:43] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, wat doe jij hier ruben ?<br />
[18:43] Ruben Haan: hoi<br />
[18:43] Richardus Raymaker: hoi.<br />
[18:43] Justin Clark-Casey: hi ruben<br />
[18:43] Justin Clark-Casey: do you have a pastebin?<br />
[18:43] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com/4Tmw2XA5<br />
[18:43] Ruben Haan: ff boven kijken<br />
[18:43] Richardus Raymaker: heb je IM gehad ruben ?<br />
[18:44] Ruben Haan: nee<br />
[18:44] Justin Clark-Casey: that's kind of bad because it just appears to be within mono<br />
[18:44] dan banner: did i rez?<br />
[18:44] Nebadon Izumi: i see you dan<br />
[18:44] dan banner: k<br />
[18:44] Richardus Raymaker: your fine dan<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: so ya that sucked<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: twice in a row it happend too<br />
[18:45] Nebadon Izumi: so i dunno<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yes - not good<br />
[18:46] Dutchy Daredevil: back i hope ??<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to take a brief look at the relevant piece of mono src once I have it, though I'm not sure it ?<br />
will reveal much<br />
[18:46] Nebadon Izumi: ok<br />
[18:46] Nebadon Izumi: it looks like it got a NaN or something<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: negative number in BlockCoppy<br />
[18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: BlockCopy<br />
[18:47] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i didn't do it<br />
[18:47] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i think<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: i have seen that crash before too<br />
[18:47] Richardus Raymaker: NaN.. i think i saw that last time to... but then my login of database where wrong<br />
[18:47] Justin Clark-Casey: it looks like mono processing an http reply though - not even touching opensim code directly<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: hmm<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: wierd it happend twice<br />
[18:47] Nebadon Izumi: wonder what the heck triggered that<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: atleast Wright Plaza restarts fast now<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: man, why on earth isn't mono writte in java :)<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: only takes about 2 minutes<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: er, opensim written in java, I mean<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[18:48] Ruben Haan: heh<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: something tells me that wouldnt make much difference<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: the jvm and sdk are far more mature<br />
[18:48] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt mean opensim would be though<br />
[18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but we wouldn't tend to suffer bugs in the sdk itself, which is what this looks like<br />
[18:49] Nebadon Izumi: i really dont know of anything as heavy as OpenSim written in java that runs well<br />
[18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: there's stacks of enterprise stuff in java<br />
[18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: huge amounts<br />
[18:49] Nebadon Izumi: as heavy as opensim though?<br />
[18:49] Nebadon Izumi: i always try to avoid java stuff myself<br />
[18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: much heavier<br />
[18:50] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, it's all academic<br />
[18:50] Richardus Raymaker: Java. prett headace stuff to.<br />
[18:51] Nebadon Izumi: well hopefully mono improves a bit soon<br />
[18:51] Nebadon Izumi: im more prone to blame opensim though<br />
[18:51] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:51] Richardus Raymaker: and mono is already good now<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: sending stuff to mono it doesnt like<br />
[18:52] Ruben Haan: what was the name of that javabased simulator<br />
[18:52] dan banner: mono is getting better all the time<br />
[18:52] Ruben Haan: open wonderland?<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: open wonderland is absolutely wretched<br />
[18:52] dan banner: thats java<br />
[18:52] Ruben Haan: i hear nothing about it annymore<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: it baffles me that anyone finds it suitable<br />
[18:52] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[18:53] Justin Clark-Casey: seems to be popular with education people<br />
[18:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya i just can not imagine why<br />
[18:53] Justin Clark-Casey: and it has features that opensim doesn't have - much better voice, for example<br />
[18:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess i found it to be just awful<br />
[18:54] Justin Clark-Casey smiles<br />
[18:54] Nebadon Izumi: and i have no doubt that there are heavy java apps<br />
[18:54] Nebadon Izumi: but i imagine most of them cost millions of dollars to develop<br />
[18:55] Nebadon Izumi: if opensimulator had huge budget we would be a lot further along<br />
[18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but they rest on a jvm and sdk that are banged about constantly<br />
[18:55] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: budget always helps<br />
[18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: that's the thing - mono doesn't get that kind of workout<br />
[18:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i suppose<br />
[18:55] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: you guys got some offeres of donations when you announced the foundation right? ?<br />
hopefully some of those will help too ;)<br />
[18:55] Nebadon Izumi: its progressing though<br />
[18:55] Ruben Haan: if i marry an old miljonair i will donate some miljons<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: mono 3.0 will probably be a lot more advanced<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: java has a good 10 years on mono<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: maybe more<br />
[18:56] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. need to sort things out<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: mono 2.12 is supposed to have some major fixes<br />
[18:56] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we'll see some improvements when it hits<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully soon<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: i am running 2.11 on my personal dev box<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be holding up<br />
[18:57] Nebadon Izumi: i should update it again<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: i have a feeling though that the HTTP server opensim uses<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: is very very veeeeery buggy<br />
[18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: the stack trace is within mono code<br />
[18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: but yeah, it's not impossible that it's a c# webserver issue<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya but couldnt it just be receving bad data<br />
[18:58] Nebadon Izumi: and not handling it well?<br />
[18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: you mean mono or the webserver? Certainly something is handling it badly<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya any of it i guess<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: i know diva has not had good things to say about our HTTP server<br />
[18:59] Justin Clark-Casey: mm<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: probably something were gonna have to deal with at some point<br />
[18:59] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall too the one we use is no longer maintainted<br />
[19:00] Nebadon Izumi: maintained*<br />
[19:00] Nebadon Izumi: its probably pretty old too at this point<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: doh he crashed<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[19:01] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: doh<br />
[19:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: anyway, anything else anyone wanted to bring up?<br />
[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: shame dougla didnt come back<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: douglas*<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: welcome back Justin<br />
[19:02] Justin Clark-Casey: aargh, my viewer is crashing as well, unusually<br />
[19:02] Nalates Urriah: How are we doing with Mesh? Has LL gotten the format to where it can be used?<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: Nalates, sorta<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: physics is screwed up<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: even in SL<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno wtf LL is doing<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: Mesh seems very broken even on the LL beta grid<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: did last week anyway<br />
[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: i was doing some testing on Friday, and its really screwed on their grid as well<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: i am totally unable to get anything to make physics mesh<br />
[19:03] Justin Clark-Casey: aren't they supposed to be launching very soon?<br />
[19:03] Nalates Urriah: I've had probs with mesh here and on SL.<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya who Knows Justin<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: i expect disaterous launch<br />
[19:03] Nalates Urriah: They said August. I think they are sweating it now.<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: its sooo far from ready<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: but knowing them, they will still go forward<br />
[19:03] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe they'll just delay<br />
[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: and piss off 90% of the grid<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it<br />
[19:04] Richardus Raymaker: if its a disaster.. are we ready here for a new flood ?<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: that would be highly unusual for them to do that<br />
[19:04] Nalates Urriah: I'm betting they roll some time in August but only enable it on the RC's<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: heh honestly I dont expect many more floods from SL<br />
[19:04] Justin Clark-Casey: if it's a disaster there it probably won't be much better here :)<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: I think most people will just move on to something else<br />
[19:04] Richardus Raymaker: Nalates, did the say wich year ?<br />
[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: its not any better here Justin<br />
[19:04] Justin Clark-Casey: there isn't something else atm<br />
[19:04] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: i tihnk maybe one more flood will happen once word of the hypergrid reachs regular ?<br />
people - it's just that awesome<br />
[19:05] Nalates Urriah: :) No but they did mean this one. After all SLCC is coming up<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: i just mean something else completely<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: xbox maybe?<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[19:05] Justin Clark-Casey: if they wanted to be gaming they would already be doing that<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya well LL has not done anything to address the V2 haters<br />
[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: then they are gonna pile a bad Mesh launch on top of that<br />
[19:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know - it seems to me that most ppl are coming round to v2<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: eventually forcing everyone to V2<br />
[19:06] Nalates Urriah: THe Lindens keep hinting something great is in the works. But, no leaks yet.<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: its not gonna go well i expect<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm not that well connected to what's on the street<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: any guesses?<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: they have said on many occasions that once Mesh goes live v1 support will soon die there after<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I think mesh effectively kills v1 - nobody will want to go to a regio nwhere they can't see the content<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[19:06] Nalates Urriah: I thinik V2 is more accepted than most realize.<br />
[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: unless there's some massive commitment not to use meshes :)<br />
[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: LL has hinted at potentially even blocking it at some point<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be immediate<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: but at some point they likely will block it<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: so we'll see<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: the problem with people flooding here from SL<br />
[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: is we are not SL<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: we are very far from any kind of SL replacement with the market places and social stuff<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: etc..<br />
[19:08] Richardus Raymaker: keep it a very slow flood. some people expect to much here.<br />
[19:08] Nalates Urriah: I think they will watch viewer stats. When few people are using it they'll. Block. Several Lindens have said ?<br />
LL will NOT block just let feature creep push them out.<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to say<br />
[19:08] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: yeah<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think LL even knows what they are doing 1/2 the time<br />
[19:08] Nebadon Izumi: until the last second<br />
[19:09] dan banner is Online<br />
[19:09] Richardus Raymaker: possible the people that can only run V1 viewers and cant get new pc go find something else.<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: all i can say for sure, is mesh is currently pretty broken<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: from my expereince<br />
[19:09] Nalates Urriah: I think they are too big for most to know what is going on. Each group seems to have their little area and ?<br />
now what is happening there.<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: Mesh actually works better in OpenSim<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you can beleive that<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: i have had waay more trouble on the LL grid<br />
[19:09] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not a huge company though - and now they're all in one location<br />
[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya it never was really a huge company<br />
[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: at peak it was what 300-400 employees<br />
[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: in fortune 500 land thats microscopic<br />
[19:10] Richardus Raymaker: its strange, LL have money. everything is on know hardware and the know how everything is setup. and ?<br />
still the do worser then opensim<br />
[19:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I really don't think they do worse<br />
[19:10] Nalates Urriah: Let me say it this way... They don't communicate well among staff<br />
[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: well they have many different problems than we do<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[19:11] Richardus Raymaker: ok, maby i cant descripe it right. but thats best that came up<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: I thought maybe rodvik would change that? He seems a very switched on guy<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: :)<br />
[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, I just appreciate the issues that LL have trying to maintain a very large grid and work out a way ?<br />
to go forward<br />
[19:11] Nebadon Izumi: personally I think Rodvik is no more effective than anyone prior to him<br />
[19:11] Nalates Urriah: I expect to find out what he is changing at the SLCC announcments.<br />
[19:11] Nebadon Izumi: i think LL's problem is the nontechnical investors<br />
[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: who tend to drive things there<br />
[19:12] Nalates Urriah: You could be right Neb<br />
[19:12] Richardus Raymaker: whats SLCC ? especially the CC<br />
[19:12] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: yeah, I imagine something should come out at slcc<br />
[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: SLCC is a RL convention for SL users<br />
[19:12] Nalates Urriah: Second Life Community Conferance, I think<br />
[19:12] Richardus Raymaker: ok<br />
[19:13] Nalates Urriah: Search Google for SLCC 2011<br />
[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: we'll see, LL is teetering on the edge right now<br />
[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: things could fall pretty much in any direction<br />
[19:13] Justin Clark-Casey: society of local council clerks<br />
[19:13] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: the edge?<br />
[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya of holding their community together<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: technical progress vs pissing everyone off<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't think sl was every comprised of a single community<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ever<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: oh its not<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: but<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: they dont seem to be making anyone happy lately<br />
[19:14] Mugetsu Storm: sorry to interrupt but are you saying SL is crumbling?<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: LL has been crumbling<br />
[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: for quite some time<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I don't say in touch with what's happening enough in ll to tell<br />
[19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds rather pessimistic to me :)<br />
[19:14] Nalates Urriah: They have a huge amount of daily signups. Plus they are now advertising and bringing in new marketing people. ?<br />
So, they aren't too worried about the existing users.<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to say, there are many factors<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: economy being #1<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: Region counts are steady but not dropping - and they are profitable<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: you do have to attract the new users<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: but LL doesnt seem to be making the best of a bad situation<br />
[19:15] Mugetsu Storm: yeah thats true<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: you cna't just cater to your base<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: they seem to be constantly making things worse for their user base<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: i read a good article about how LL is chasing LL<br />
[19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: in wht way?<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: at the expense of their own user base<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: there is a good article showing that all the recent development going on at LL<br />
[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: is to attract the facebook crowd<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: while pushing their current user base out<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: and the best part is<br />
[19:16] Mugetsu Storm: i heard something about that to<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: after all that work LL did to start integrating for Facebook<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: facebook goes and disables 1000's of Second Life user accounts<br />
[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: pretty much spitting in LL's face<br />
[19:16] dan banner: heh<br />
[19:16] Nalates Urriah: I wouldn't beleive that. Facebook has done some stupid stuff. Google+ may push them out and we may see LL do ?<br />
mroe with Google+.<br />
[19:17] Richardus Raymaker: i hear facebook stuff to, yuch<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me see if i can find that article<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty telling at the mentality at LL<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2081707/Eggs-and-Baskets-How-Second-Lifes-Facebook-Marketing-Has-?<br />
Backfired<br />
[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: good article i thought<br />
[19:18] Nebadon Izumi: problem with LL going after facebook is facebook requires you to use your real identity<br />
[19:18] Nebadon Izumi: and the majority of SL users dont want to reveal their RL identity<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: if FB finds out your account info is fake, they disable your account<br />
[19:19] Outback Abbot: I have a question friends<br />
<br />
It would support OSGrid As a mass registration of users in the case of: a closure announced by SL?<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: that would be monumentally bad Outback<br />
[19:19] Richardus Raymaker: since when is the RL identty required ? i made acount and froze it. boring.. but cant remeber and data. ?<br />
or forget<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid might not actually survive that honestly<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: we have very limited resources<br />
[19:19] Nebadon Izumi: we could never accomidate the kind of load SL generates<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: you need to remember LL on average has around 50,000 users loggged in<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: they have millions of dollars in infrastructure<br />
[19:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I highly doubt sl would ever just close anyway<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[19:20] dan banner: 40k bots<br />
[19:20] Richardus Raymaker: only escape is small HyperGrid then<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think SL is that dire<br />
[19:20] Justin Clark-Casey: at the very worst it would just tail off very slowly, like all the other long lived mmorpgs out there<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: but i also dont think LL is doing enough to keep their hard core user base happy<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: LL is quite small<br />
[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: when compared to say facebook<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: or evey MySpace<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: Facebook logs in 50,000 users every minute<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: maybe more<br />
[19:21] Outback Abbot: I understand<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: there is still quite a lot of potential at LL<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: for me its more about what LL is morphing into<br />
[19:21] dan banner: osgrid would break before 1000 i think<br />
[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: than me worried about it failing<br />
[19:22] Richardus Raymaker: we saw already weird things around 200<br />
[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya that was before we upgraded our hardware too<br />
[19:22] Justin Clark-Casey: however, until that happens there's no incentive to improve the backend systems<br />
[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: but yes, OpenSim in general has trouble around a few 100 users<br />
[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: well i think its more than just back end system software too justin<br />
[19:22] Justin Clark-Casey: 200?<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: LL has literaly 100's of servers on their back end, not talking about simulators<br />
[19:23] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: where do you think the problem lies when you get up to those numbers? Inventory?<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: but the back end robust like services<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: LL has literally 150+ asset servers<br />
[19:23] Richardus Raymaker: bandwidth is one<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: that cost around 125,000$ USD a pop<br />
[19:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately, this is the reason for having something more like the hypergrid, to spread the load<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: LL has a huge amount of money tied up in infrastructure<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: millions<br />
[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: 10's of millions<br />
[19:24] Vivian Klees: Neb anymore testing with null?<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: null?<br />
[19:24] Vivian Klees: nulldb<br />
[19:24] dan banner: null storage<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: oh<br />
[19:24] Richardus Raymaker: problem with HG 4096<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: not really no<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: the method i came up with is very hackish<br />
[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: and honestly after discovering that myisam yeilded so much better performance<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: i sorta moved on to other things<br />
[19:25] Justin Clark-Casey: presumably you still have trouble with speedbuilds, though?<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say, i think things have actually been pretty good at the last few speedbuilds<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: of course opensim still gets splodey if you do to much at once<br />
[19:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I see you're not advertising events on the website, currently<br />
[19:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, that might be more to do with core code<br />
[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: and really we never gave the null database testing multiple builder testing<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: the null db stuff i did was not perfect by any means<br />
[19:26] Mugetsu Storm: nebadon: whats a speed build?<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: speedbuild is contest thing we do<br />
[19:26] Justin Clark-Casey: still, it's worth bearing in mind. After all linden save out simulator states by the sound of it rather ?<br />
than updating a database<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: you get 1 hour to build a topic of our choosing<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: then everyone votes at the end<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya justin<br />
[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: thing is though LL sims are very hard to actually crash<br />
[19:26] Mugetsu Storm: so i building contest<br />
[19:27] dan banner: yes<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: its not so hard to degrade performance<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: but getting a hard crash in LL is almost impossible<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: unlike opensim<br />
[19:27] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: wait i thought 4096 was also a viewer thing - you trying to fix it in server??<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: so unless your writing out states almost every second<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: you run the risk of loosing big swaths of work<br />
[19:27] Richardus Raymaker: 4096 is viewer thing with HG<br />
[19:27] Richardus Raymaker: and teleports<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: my method rwote out states every 2 minutes<br />
[19:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, there is that issue. thogh the same is true for the db approach<br />
[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: 2 minutes can be an eternity when your building fast<br />
[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: though admittedly the db approach only saves parts<br />
[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: ok<br />
[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: sinseer: it is a viewer issue<br />
[19:28] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah thats what i thought<br />
[19:28] Mugetsu Storm: i build slowly and it always feels like an eternity<br />
[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: when i was doing my testing there was several times the sim crashed<br />
[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: and restarted and a bunch of stuff was missing<br />
[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: so it was far from perfect in the saving regards, but it did show that when it did work<br />
[19:28] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that 4096 is quite the damper. we should all move sims to lower. (ducks)<br />
[19:29] dan banner: alot can be lost in 2 minutes<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: it was 1000's of times more efficient<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: its sorta like ramdisk vs magnetic disc<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: risk vs reward<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[19:29] Justin Clark-Casey: persisting in the db always carries a high overhead<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: switching to myisam though made a big big difference<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: like i said it went from 9 hour datastore loading WP oar to 15 minutes<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: almost unbelievable improvement<br />
[19:30] Justin Clark-Casey: and you switched script DLLs to not get deleted here as well<br />
[19:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ?<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: correct<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: all the plazas are now<br />
[19:30] Richardus Raymaker: SInSeer, if you know a save way to ove osgrid. without war....<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: sim load time went from 10 minutes to 2 minutes<br />
[19:30] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: richardus lol no i so don't i know it won't happen<br />
[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: i also updated the updater scripts to purge the dll's every update<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: so everytime we update we get 1 nasty startup<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: which is fine<br />
[19:31] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: just seems like we could all agree to solve the problem but it'd be like a ?<br />
cataclysm, sooooo much work<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya moving OSgrid would be difficult<br />
[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: and honestly moving to me is pretty much giving up on something i know can be fixed<br />
[19:31] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yah and it'd really have to be ever grid doing it to make the problem entirely go ?<br />
away<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: i know as soon as we moved the grid<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: someone would fix the problem<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: then it would have all been for nothing<br />
[19:32] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, like with everything<br />
[19:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: and it is a LOT of sims to move here ouch<br />
[19:32] Richardus Raymaker: whats the sim cpount now ?<br />
[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya with virtually no way to coordinate it<br />
[19:32] Justin Clark-Casey: then again, people have looked to fix it in the viewer and failed<br />
[19:32] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah i was reading bout that justin :(<br />
[19:32] Vivian Klees: those with mega's ouch<br />
[19:32] dan banner: 6300 or so rich<br />
[19:32] Justin Clark-Casey: the graphics problem reminds me of the kind of effect you seee when you go miles up in the air<br />
[19:33] dan banner: 6505<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya well honestly id say 75% of viewer devs are mostly concerned with SL<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: they have no reason to want to fix it<br />
[19:33] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yah<br />
[19:33] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: there is that<br />
[19:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: the devs that are concerned with OpenSim are so overwhelmed with other stuff they just have not made it a ?<br />
priority<br />
[19:33] Richardus Raymaker: right now the need to get up to sl2<br />
[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya and unfortunatly the problem is actually worse in V2 from my undersatnding<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: the map issue anyway<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: not the teleporting issue<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: oh ?<br />
[19:34] Justin Clark-Casey: 2048 apparantly<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: ok<br />
[19:34] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: yeah - half of 4096<br />
[19:34] dan banner: SL doesnt need more than their 8 million locations since they dont use any type of HG<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: oh<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: that sounds a disaster for osgrid<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: right SL is like 28,000 to 30,000 simulators in total<br />
[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: its less than 1% of what they coould actually handle<br />
[19:34] dan banner: out of 8 million possible locations<br />
[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: means pff. 9000-11000 .. auww<br />
[19:34] Outback Abbot: I honestly believe that Opensim viewer should have a new code itself to 100% without any code LL<br />
[19:35] Sarah Kline is Online<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: thats a lot easier said that done Outback<br />
[19:35] dan banner: yeah start coding<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: making a viewer is monumentally harder compared to server side stuff<br />
[19:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe we should have a new Sistine Chapel in my garden<br />
[19:35] Dream Scientist: hello people<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: considering the solution needs to be cross platform<br />
[19:35] Justin Clark-Casey: hello dream<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: and really again, LL has spent millions developing their viewer<br />
[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: between licesnsing and developer time<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: its a huge amount of money invested in the LL viewer to get it as far as they did as fast as they did<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: making a similar viewer with volunteers is very hard work<br />
[19:36] Nalates Urriah gave you Errors from Nalates.<br />
[19:36] Justin Clark-Casey: the best choice if one wanted to do that would probably be to try and adapt the current realxtend viewer<br />
[19:36] Outback Abbot: I understand that it is easy to say, but that does not deny that OpenSim is limiting developers to viewers so ?<br />
they can not provide any code previously used in display<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya possibly<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: ive not had much luck with the Rex stuff<br />
[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried testing it, its so difficult to use<br />
[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: easy is not been a factor with them it seems<br />
[19:37] Nalates Urriah: I ran into the same thing, Neb. A PITA to setup and use.<br />
[19:37] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, usability is a tough problem<br />
[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:37] Justin Clark-Casey: specially when you don't have tens of thousnads of people actually using it<br />
[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully that improves<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: it comes back to just a few volunteers again though<br />
[19:38] Outback Abbot: I apologize for my bad use of English<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: well Outback the viewer policy is changing<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: but i can almost gaurantee we wont see alot of viewer devs jumping on opensim development<br />
[19:38] Nalates Urriah: When we will see the change take effect for programmers?<br />
[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: there are other projects that are forks of opensimulator<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: that do not have viewer dev limitations in their policy<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: and they have literally attracted zero viewer devs<br />
[19:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: soon, but the agreement stuff needs to be worked through in the back first<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: but what will be nice is that the current opensim devs can start looking at the viewer code<br />
[19:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I don't think aurora has a high enough profile at this point<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya well it wasnt just Aurora if you recall<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: there was that openmetaverse project too<br />
[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: that went no where<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: may i ask what this meeting is about?<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: i cant recall the name now<br />
[19:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know if that was meant to be a fork or not<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: i dont really get it hehe<br />
[19:40] Justin Clark-Casey: dream: nominally it's opensim/osdev development<br />
[19:40] Justin Clark-Casey: er, osgrid<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: This is developer office hours Dream<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: for OpenSimulator<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: ah ok<br />
[19:40] Key Gruin is Online<br />
[19:40] Dream Scientist: im not a developer, but come to hang out a bit and listen then<br />
[19:40] Nalates Urriah: No formal agenda so lots of stuff gets talked about<br />
[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya i do hope we get a few Viewer devs interested for sure<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: dont get me wrong i think its the right move<br />
[19:41] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: its just off the top of my head i dont know any who i think will just jump right in either<br />
[19:41] Justin Clark-Casey: we just have to get it done now<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: time will tell<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[19:41] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: well it seems a lot of devs wanna just do their own thing - so we end up with lots ?<br />
of side projects off opensim that have 1 programmer each<br />
[19:41] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: sighs<br />
[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is the viewer devs are as overwhelmed with viewer dev as opensim devs are with opensim<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: their time is already extremely limited<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: especailly with the urgency to get on V2 coming up<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: so many things going on<br />
[19:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go, way over time here :)<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully though what we can attraact are people not currently working on the viewer<br />
[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: but people who are very familliar with it<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin, thanks for coming<br />
[19:43] Richardus Raymaker: bye jcc<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey: Bye everyone<br />
[19:43] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: thanks justin, have a good one!<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: you still want to go over some of the OSgrid stuff today?<br />
[19:43] dan banner: later justin<br />
[19:43] Outback Abbot: bye Justin<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: maybe later - I'm behind schedule<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll ping you on irc<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: kk give a shout<br />
[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon<br />
[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey waves<br />
[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: well good meeting, ran a little long today<br />
[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: but if anyone has anything they want to talk about please feel free to speak up<br />
[19:44] SinSeer.Discordia @www.griffonsnest.com: that's okay ;) but i do have to get going myself<br />
[19:44] Key Gruin: just in time for the end lol<br />
[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: heehe hey there Key<br />
[19:44] Key Gruin: Hi Neb hi everyone<br />
[19:44] Vivian Klees: oh no poor Key<br />
[19:45] dan banner: dang<br />
[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: thats ok we mostly spoke a lot about LL today<br />
[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[19:45] Outback Abbot: hi Key<br />
[19:45] Key Gruin: couldnt log in<br />
[19:45] dan banner: i should have logged the first half before the crash</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2011-07-05T21:19:55Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
OpenSim has a number of weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project. All take place on Wright Plaza on OSGrid.<br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
Meetings on Wright Plaza serve two purposes. One is the meeting described below. The second, and equally important is as a stress test so we can all see how our sim reliability is functioning at each meeting.<br />
<br />
Additionally, others are welcome to use the conference room on Wright Plaza for any other meetings they wish. This conference room is setup for meetings and the more use of it, the more testing and development is enhanced.<br />
<br />
The two html-on-a-prim one each side of the main screen are both controlled from the chat channel and can be used to present arbitrary web pages to enhance a meeting.<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focussed, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 1800 UTC (1900 GMT, 1100 PT, 1400 EST) on Wright Plaza at OSGrid (osgrid.org)'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-03-22]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSim. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/TipsTips2011-05-31T02:42:05Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Importing SL RAW Terrain Files (using Photoshop) */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{Template:Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
[[Category:Users]]<br />
==Terrain Tidbits==<br />
===How can I flatten a region?===<br />
When you have multiple regions, that you need to terraform to a certain height, the quickest way to do it is by selecting a region, and fill the terrain to the specified height:<br />
<br />
(as of version 0.6.3.8730)<br />
change region YourRegionName<br />
terrain fill 20<br />
<br />
''Note:'' Remember to change to the region you wish to modify if that is the only region wish to make changes to. Without using the change-region command, you may very well end up flattening multiple regions!<br />
<br />
As of SVN 4061<br />
terrain fill 25<br />
<br />
[[Category:Getting Started]]<br />
<br />
=== What programs can I use to create terrains for OpenSim? ===<br />
<br />
If you are after simple terrain files (jpg, gif, etc), you can use Photoshop or any number of freeware programs, like [http://www.gimp.org/ Gimp]. If you want more complex terrains, you will need programs that output to standard 3d raw format (aka r32 or r64). [http://www.bundysoft.com/L3DT/ L3DT] and [http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/ Terragen] are two of the top commercial programs for this. (anyone know of a freeware one?), or you could, with some practice, use [http://www.blender.org/ Blender]. The free version of L3DT can make terrains up to 2048x2048 in size, or 8x8 regions. You can use `terrain load IMG yourfile.png` to load '''greyscale''' PNG files. Remember to use something like `terrain rescale 0 25` to make it visible. Here is some info on [[Using L3DT]] to make a terrain. <br />
<br />
You can also use http://lab.parkstudio.ru/terra/ if you know a bit about heightmaps and how they work. Just set the custom landscape texture gradient to pure black and pure white and turn off water. And here are some [[Free Terrains]] that you can use. Enjoy! <br />
<br />
Additional Terrain Related Info: [[Artist_Home#Terrain]]<br />
<br />
=== Where do I put the files for my terrains? ===<br />
This one is actually pretty simple, but first the 'hard' answer: anywhere in the PATH will work. Lost? yeah, I was too, so... just drop the file into the <tt>bin</tt> directory (right where your <tt>OpenSim.exe</tt> file is).<br />
<br />
===How do I change the terrain for a group of sims?===<br />
First, the file must be in f32 (or f64?) format. This is easy to do with L3DT's export feature. (Use the RAW format and set the options to <tt>Y flipped = true</tt> and at the bottom, change it to read 'float' instead of 'ushort'). It also needs to be a file that will cover each sim in a 256x256 layer (so, for 2x2 regions, you need a 512x512 file), It is very important that you rename the file extension to .r32 for the import to properly work.<br />
Then, once you have it saved, on the <tt>OpenSim.exe</tt> console, type in:<br />
script terrain load-tile <filename> <image X> <image y> <bottomleftsim X> <bottomleftsim y><br />
For example, I run a square of 4 sims in a 2x2 pattern. I started my sim placement at 0, 0 and ended at 1, 1. my line reads:<br />
<strike>script terrain load-tile simalpha.r32 512 512 0 0</strike><br />
script terrain load-tile simalpha.r32 2 2 0 0 ([[User:Oudrun|Oudrun]])<br />
New syntax is using number of tiles instead of imagesize (one tile 256x256 pix). Above example is for a 2x2 region terrainfile.<br />
<br />
Next, before you log in, you may want to go to type in: *(THIS FUNCTION MAY NOT WORK)<br />
script terrain multiply 0.4<br />
This should scale it down from the nearly 300 meters altitude I ran into to something a little more reasonable for the minimap.<br />
<br />
===How do I load a terrain file on startup?===<br />
Edit the file <tt>startup_commands.txt</tt> in the bin directory and add the above commands "<tt>script terrain load-tile ...</tt>" and "<tt>script terrain multiply ...</tt>" one per line.<br />
<br />
*** Notice this method is no longer required and should be considered a legacy function, Terrain persistance is now working 100%.<br />
<br />
Terrain Tidbits brought to you by Tilde, with a few questions in IRC :) - [[User:Tildeampersand|Tilde]] 10:32, 15 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
===How do I import into OpenSim the terrain shape of my Second Life sim?===<br />
First, assure you are in the right region if you have more than one, by using: <br />
<br />
change region <nowiki><regionname></nowiki><br />
<br />
Then use the command (file extension now determines the format, use .r32 for L3DT terrains)<br />
<br />
script terrain load <filename><br />
<br />
Watch [http://archimedix.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/opensim/ this video] for a step-by-step tutorial.<br />
<br />
=== Other useless or useful info depending on who reads it ===<br />
<br />
* I found out that each point on the grey scale (0 to 255) equals approximately .23 to .25 meters in terrain height. - [[CharlieO]]<br />
* Also for those who want to manually edit a png file, you need at minimum 3 different shades of grey. and one has to be drastically different than the other 2 in order to have the height show correctly. - [[CharlieO]]<br />
example:<br />
1) 0,0,0 <br />
2) 223, 233, 233 <br />
3) 255, 255, 255<br />
<br />
=== Importing SL RAW Terrain Files (using Photoshop) ===<br />
<br />
1. Open Photoshop and:<br />
<br />
(a) Load desired SL RAW terrain file<br />
<br />
(b) Select canvas and then flip vertically, NOT<br />
horizontally<br />
<br />
(c) save file as a RAW file<br />
<br />
If the SL RAW terrain file name is "[region name]_256_256.raw"<br />
then save the new RAW file as "[region name]_flipv_256x256.raw"<br />
or any other name to distinguish it from the SL RAW terrain<br />
file. The expression "flipv" stands for flipped vertically and<br />
256x256 is the size for the 13-channel interlaced 8-bit RAW<br />
file.<br />
<br />
2. Move the new RAW file or files to the Opensim bin folder<br />
<br />
(a) navigate to<br />
<br />
C:\Program Files\Opensim\bin [or whatever the path is]<br />
<br />
(b) copy each new RAW terrain file into that directory<br />
<br />
3. Run opensim and in the console on the last line type:<br />
<br />
(a) change region [enter region name]<br />
<br />
(b) terrain load [enter name of new RAW terrain file]<br />
<br />
(c) terrain elevate [enter meters to elevate]<br />
<br />
Do not type the square brackets and repeat the above commands<br />
for each region.<br />
<br />
If the above commands are entered when the region is set to<br />
[root], then each region on the simulator will be affected.<br />
The only useful command in this case would be the terrain<br />
elevate command but only if the terrain is to be elevated<br />
by the same amount in each region.<br />
<br />
How much to elevate the terrain depends on the multiplier<br />
used for the SL RAW terrain file (e.g. elevate terrain by<br />
1.474 meters if the multiplier is 0.1016; i.e. value 12<br />
in the green channel of the RAW file).<br />
<br />
==General Setup Tricks==<br />
=== Changing viewer start webpage in standalone mode ===<br />
<br />
In order to change the page that the viewer starts in /opensim/bin/ there is a http_loginform.html.example page. Removing the .example will make this page be the start webpage which you can edit etc. Since the login html code is no longer needed this can be modified at will.<br />
<br />
=== Placing data away from the code ===<br />
A good set up, separates the code (replaced often in this project) from the data ("unique" and more valuable for the user). Things to do:<br />
* separate your region definitions by using the ''regionload_regionsdir'' value in the OpenSim.ini<br />
e.g. regionload_regionsdir="../OSHirvi/Regions" places the Regions directory besides the "code directory" in a folder called OSHirvi<br />
* make your data persistent in a database (see above), this requires (again) to edit your OpenSim.ini file. You might use unique names to separate multiple setups within the database server you use.<br />
e.g. ''storage_connection_string=''"Data Source=localhost;Database=OSHirvi;User ID=OSHirvi;Password=password;"; <br />
* the next step is copying/cutting OpenSim.ini itself away from the code<br />
p.e. place this file in ../OSHirvi/OpenSim.1.ini <br />
* to point from your place ../ to your wanted runtime directory create a link (or some call it shortcut). If you download a newer build just change the link.<br />
e.g. ln -s opensimservercode opensim-0.5.8.5695<br />
<br />
Now create a script, and call it startHirvi.sh that:<br />
a) gets it current directory in the code directory, found by the link<br />
b) starts up OpenSim.exe with the required .ini file, by using the ''-inifile'' startup option. You can still add other options. <br />
cd ../opensimservercode<br />
mono OpenSim.exe -inifile ../OSHirvi/OpenSim.1.ini -gridmode=true<br />
<br />
Oke, done this you are left with a code directory still filled with runtime data, but this is just persistent temporary stuff that the server automatic rebuilds if it is deleted. Still a pitty there is no way to get it separate. <br />
./addin-db-00<br />
./addins<br />
./OpaenSim.log and many others if you run in grid-mode<br />
./estate_settings.xml and many other configuration settings<br />
<br />
===Deleting a few recently created prims===<br />
Occaisionally, one ends up with one or more prims that one would like to delete on a region but doesnt know where they are. Here is one possible solution to that problem.<br />
<br />
Given the site, http://epochconverter.com, one can enter a human date and get a binary such as an epoch. For instance, 4/21/2008 19:00:34GMT is "1208797234"<br />
<br />
Then, from a sqlite3 prompt or a mysql prompt, one can do:<br />
select CreationDate from prims where CreationDate>"1208797234";<br />
delete from prims where CreationDate>"1208797234";</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Artist_HomeArtist Home2011-02-12T20:09:12Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Guides */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Quicklinks}}<br />
<br />
== Artist Documentation ==<br />
<br />
This page contains information about content creation for OpenSimulator including best practices, guides, tools, examples, collaborative projects and of course Creative Commons licensed content.<br />
<br />
Discussion group for people interested in creating content for Metaverse: [[http://groups.google.com/group/open-content-for-metaverse Open Content for Metaverse]]<br />
<br />
Some useful resources of free material:<br />
<br />
A great summary sheet: [[http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgsbx7zg_9mzk6nxtc 3DCG for the hobbyist -- useful products and links]]<br />
<br />
A hobbyist animators blog with all kinds of goodies: [[http://www.cgspeed.com/ cgspeed]]<br />
<br />
A source for free animations, 3d models, textures, etc.: [[http://www.sharecg.com/ ShareCG]]<br />
<br />
A huge 3d graphics source: [[http://www.renderosity.com/ Renderosity]]<br />
<br />
A 3d Artists community: [[http://www.3dcommune.com/ 3dcommune]]<br />
<br />
Runtime DNA: [[http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/downloads.php www.runtimedna.com Free Downloads]]<br />
<br />
Adult oriented content: [[http://www.raunchyminds.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=15 RaunchyMinds Freebies Download]]<br />
<br />
This is not an exhaustive list, please add to it if you can!<br />
<br />
I have tried to include sites which have free Poser/Opensim compatible content which could be used for "personal use" in your own "world". You must check the licensing for any commercial uses.<br />
<br />
== Textures ==<br />
<br />
Textures are images used to cover surfaces of 3d models and terrain. Textures can be anything form 1x1 to 1024x1024 images. Most of the textures for buildings, items and clothes are usually 512x512.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
* Creating tileable textures: [[http://www.gfxartist.com/features/tutorials/740]]<br />
* [http://robynhuffaker.com/sculptblender/2010/03/20/creating-and-using-shadow-maps/ Creating and Using Shadow Maps] by Robyn Huffaker<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP]] - GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
* [http://torley.com/torley-textures-available-for-download-in-a-single-zip-pack Torley Textures] is a collection of over 600 textures by Torley Linden. (New download location: http://torley.s3.amazonaws.com/Torley-Textures.zip)<br />
<br />
== Models ==<br />
<br />
Models are 3 dimensional objects which are formed from faces and textures. Models come in many flavors but currently OpenSimulator supports parametrized primitives and sculpted primitives. Parametrized primitives can be created in world with build functionality. Sculpted primitives are defined by a special bitmap image which can be created with 3d modeling programs which support sculptures.<br />
<br />
Yet unsupported in core OpenSimulator are 3d models which can be created with 3d modeling softwares like Blender and be saved in various formats. RealXtend module to OpenSimulator already supports 3d models.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
* [http://robynhuffaker.com/sculptblender/tutorial/ Learn to Make Second Life Sculpties in Blender] by Robyn Huffaker<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.blender.org/ Blender]] - Blender is the free open source 3D content creation suite, available for all major operating systems under the GNU General Public License.<br />
* [[http://www.wings3d.com/ Wings 3d]] - Sculpty editor<br />
* [[http://www.qavimator.org/ Qavimator]] - Animation for OpenSim avatars<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
[[Image:Biped.jpg]]<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
* [[OpenSimulator Avatar]]<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
== Terrain ==<br />
<br />
Currently OpenSimulator terrains consists of heightmap and textures for different directions and heights. OpenSimulator terrain can be imported in raw terrain format from several terrain editor tools.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
* [[Tips#Terrain Tidbits|Terrain Tips]]<br />
* [[Using L3DT]]<br />
* [[Terrain making]]<br />
* [[Detailed cross-region terrain making]]<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* L3DT<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
*[[Free Terrains]]<br />
<br />
<br><br />
<br />
=== Additional Terrain Resources ===<br />
<br />
'''TERRAIN EDITING''' <br />
<br />
There is now a Plugin made and available for the free program GIMP by Domino Designs. <br>See [http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich] is easy to install and allows you to bring in RAW files and edit them. <br />
<br />
GIMP is available free and downloadable at [http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ ]<br>GIMP is available for most Operating Systems and Platforms and is User Supported with many features and functions far beyond Terrain Editing. <br />
<br />
<br>'''REFERENCES / SUPPLEMENTAL SOURCES &amp; APPLICATIONS:'''<br>[http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking]<br>Tutorial: Creating OpenSim terrain with Blender [http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/ http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/]<br>Some Free &amp; Some Not, Terrains @&nbsp;[http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/ http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/]<br>Tutorial on [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/05/07/how-to-create-raw-terrain-files-for-second-life-and-opensim-with-terragen/ creating terrain files with Terragen] as well as [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/06/05/how-to-create-megaregion-terrain-raw-files-for-second-life-and-opensim/ using Photoshop to edit terrain files and create megaregion terrain] with a library of [http://tgib.co.uk/category/creations/terrain-creations/ free terrain files] <br />
<br />
Spinmass Virtual Creations, Has Two Products for Terrain Making and Generation which are Free Downloads. Look at Terrain Sculptor &amp; Bailiwick.<br>They are available from [http://www.spinmass.com/ http://www.spinmass.com/] <br />
<br />
<br>'''Three easy to use Online Image Splitters''' <br />
<br />
[Http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/ &nbsp;http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.sliceimage.com/ http://www.sliceimage.com/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/ http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/]<br><br />
<br />
== Sounds ==<br />
<br />
Sounds clips can be used within (scripted) objects and as part of gestures. Current OpenSimulator sound formats are PCM WAVE (.wav) 16-bit/44.1KHz/mono or stereo with a maximum length of 10.00 seconds.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Audacity]] - Audacity® is free, open source software for recording and editing sounds. It is available for Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux, and other operating systems.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.freesound.org/ The Freesound Project]] - The Freesound Project is a collaborative database of Creative Commons licensed sounds.<br />
<br />
== Music ==<br />
<br />
Music can be played via parcel media as either streamed or from a single music file.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.jamendo.com/ Jamendo]] - Jamendo is a community of free, legal and unlimited music published under Creative Commons licenses.</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Artist_HomeArtist Home2011-02-12T20:08:39Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Guides */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Quicklinks}}<br />
<br />
== Artist Documentation ==<br />
<br />
This page contains information about content creation for OpenSimulator including best practices, guides, tools, examples, collaborative projects and of course Creative Commons licensed content.<br />
<br />
Discussion group for people interested in creating content for Metaverse: [[http://groups.google.com/group/open-content-for-metaverse Open Content for Metaverse]]<br />
<br />
Some useful resources of free material:<br />
<br />
A great summary sheet: [[http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgsbx7zg_9mzk6nxtc 3DCG for the hobbyist -- useful products and links]]<br />
<br />
A hobbyist animators blog with all kinds of goodies: [[http://www.cgspeed.com/ cgspeed]]<br />
<br />
A source for free animations, 3d models, textures, etc.: [[http://www.sharecg.com/ ShareCG]]<br />
<br />
A huge 3d graphics source: [[http://www.renderosity.com/ Renderosity]]<br />
<br />
A 3d Artists community: [[http://www.3dcommune.com/ 3dcommune]]<br />
<br />
Runtime DNA: [[http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/downloads.php www.runtimedna.com Free Downloads]]<br />
<br />
Adult oriented content: [[http://www.raunchyminds.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=15 RaunchyMinds Freebies Download]]<br />
<br />
This is not an exhaustive list, please add to it if you can!<br />
<br />
I have tried to include sites which have free Poser/Opensim compatible content which could be used for "personal use" in your own "world". You must check the licensing for any commercial uses.<br />
<br />
== Textures ==<br />
<br />
Textures are images used to cover surfaces of 3d models and terrain. Textures can be anything form 1x1 to 1024x1024 images. Most of the textures for buildings, items and clothes are usually 512x512.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
* Creating tileable textures: [[http://www.gfxartist.com/features/tutorials/740]]<br />
* [http://robynhuffaker.com/sculptblender/2010/03/20/creating-and-using-shadow-maps/ Creating and Using Shadow Maps] by Robyn Huffaker<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP]] - GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
* [http://torley.com/torley-textures-available-for-download-in-a-single-zip-pack Torley Textures] is a collection of over 600 textures by Torley Linden. (New download location: http://torley.s3.amazonaws.com/Torley-Textures.zip)<br />
<br />
== Models ==<br />
<br />
Models are 3 dimensional objects which are formed from faces and textures. Models come in many flavors but currently OpenSimulator supports parametrized primitives and sculpted primitives. Parametrized primitives can be created in world with build functionality. Sculpted primitives are defined by a special bitmap image which can be created with 3d modeling programs which support sculptures.<br />
<br />
Yet unsupported in core OpenSimulator are 3d models which can be created with 3d modeling softwares like Blender and be saved in various formats. RealXtend module to OpenSimulator already supports 3d models.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
* [http://robynhuffaker.com/sculptblender/tutorial/ Learn to Make Second Life Sculpties in Blender] by Robyn Huffaker (SL name Murgatroyd Zauberflote)<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.blender.org/ Blender]] - Blender is the free open source 3D content creation suite, available for all major operating systems under the GNU General Public License.<br />
* [[http://www.wings3d.com/ Wings 3d]] - Sculpty editor<br />
* [[http://www.qavimator.org/ Qavimator]] - Animation for OpenSim avatars<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
[[Image:Biped.jpg]]<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
* [[OpenSimulator Avatar]]<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
== Terrain ==<br />
<br />
Currently OpenSimulator terrains consists of heightmap and textures for different directions and heights. OpenSimulator terrain can be imported in raw terrain format from several terrain editor tools.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
* [[Tips#Terrain Tidbits|Terrain Tips]]<br />
* [[Using L3DT]]<br />
* [[Terrain making]]<br />
* [[Detailed cross-region terrain making]]<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* L3DT<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
*[[Free Terrains]]<br />
<br />
<br><br />
<br />
=== Additional Terrain Resources ===<br />
<br />
'''TERRAIN EDITING''' <br />
<br />
There is now a Plugin made and available for the free program GIMP by Domino Designs. <br>See [http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich] is easy to install and allows you to bring in RAW files and edit them. <br />
<br />
GIMP is available free and downloadable at [http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ ]<br>GIMP is available for most Operating Systems and Platforms and is User Supported with many features and functions far beyond Terrain Editing. <br />
<br />
<br>'''REFERENCES / SUPPLEMENTAL SOURCES &amp; APPLICATIONS:'''<br>[http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking]<br>Tutorial: Creating OpenSim terrain with Blender [http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/ http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/]<br>Some Free &amp; Some Not, Terrains @&nbsp;[http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/ http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/]<br>Tutorial on [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/05/07/how-to-create-raw-terrain-files-for-second-life-and-opensim-with-terragen/ creating terrain files with Terragen] as well as [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/06/05/how-to-create-megaregion-terrain-raw-files-for-second-life-and-opensim/ using Photoshop to edit terrain files and create megaregion terrain] with a library of [http://tgib.co.uk/category/creations/terrain-creations/ free terrain files] <br />
<br />
Spinmass Virtual Creations, Has Two Products for Terrain Making and Generation which are Free Downloads. Look at Terrain Sculptor &amp; Bailiwick.<br>They are available from [http://www.spinmass.com/ http://www.spinmass.com/] <br />
<br />
<br>'''Three easy to use Online Image Splitters''' <br />
<br />
[Http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/ &nbsp;http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.sliceimage.com/ http://www.sliceimage.com/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/ http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/]<br><br />
<br />
== Sounds ==<br />
<br />
Sounds clips can be used within (scripted) objects and as part of gestures. Current OpenSimulator sound formats are PCM WAVE (.wav) 16-bit/44.1KHz/mono or stereo with a maximum length of 10.00 seconds.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Audacity]] - Audacity® is free, open source software for recording and editing sounds. It is available for Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux, and other operating systems.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.freesound.org/ The Freesound Project]] - The Freesound Project is a collaborative database of Creative Commons licensed sounds.<br />
<br />
== Music ==<br />
<br />
Music can be played via parcel media as either streamed or from a single music file.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.jamendo.com/ Jamendo]] - Jamendo is a community of free, legal and unlimited music published under Creative Commons licenses.</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Artist_HomeArtist Home2011-02-12T19:44:37Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Guides */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Quicklinks}}<br />
<br />
== Artist Documentation ==<br />
<br />
This page contains information about content creation for OpenSimulator including best practices, guides, tools, examples, collaborative projects and of course Creative Commons licensed content.<br />
<br />
Discussion group for people interested in creating content for Metaverse: [[http://groups.google.com/group/open-content-for-metaverse Open Content for Metaverse]]<br />
<br />
Some useful resources of free material:<br />
<br />
A great summary sheet: [[http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgsbx7zg_9mzk6nxtc 3DCG for the hobbyist -- useful products and links]]<br />
<br />
A hobbyist animators blog with all kinds of goodies: [[http://www.cgspeed.com/ cgspeed]]<br />
<br />
A source for free animations, 3d models, textures, etc.: [[http://www.sharecg.com/ ShareCG]]<br />
<br />
A huge 3d graphics source: [[http://www.renderosity.com/ Renderosity]]<br />
<br />
A 3d Artists community: [[http://www.3dcommune.com/ 3dcommune]]<br />
<br />
Runtime DNA: [[http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/downloads.php www.runtimedna.com Free Downloads]]<br />
<br />
Adult oriented content: [[http://www.raunchyminds.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=15 RaunchyMinds Freebies Download]]<br />
<br />
This is not an exhaustive list, please add to it if you can!<br />
<br />
I have tried to include sites which have free Poser/Opensim compatible content which could be used for "personal use" in your own "world". You must check the licensing for any commercial uses.<br />
<br />
== Textures ==<br />
<br />
Textures are images used to cover surfaces of 3d models and terrain. Textures can be anything form 1x1 to 1024x1024 images. Most of the textures for buildings, items and clothes are usually 512x512.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
* Creating tileable textures: [[http://www.gfxartist.com/features/tutorials/740]]<br />
* [http://robynhuffaker.com/sculptblender/2010/03/20/creating-and-using-shadow-maps/ Creating and Using Shadow Maps] by Robyn Huffaker (SL name Murgatroyd Zauberflote)<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP]] - GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
* [http://torley.com/torley-textures-available-for-download-in-a-single-zip-pack Torley Textures] is a collection of over 600 textures by Torley Linden. (New download location: http://torley.s3.amazonaws.com/Torley-Textures.zip)<br />
<br />
== Models ==<br />
<br />
Models are 3 dimensional objects which are formed from faces and textures. Models come in many flavors but currently OpenSimulator supports parametrized primitives and sculpted primitives. Parametrized primitives can be created in world with build functionality. Sculpted primitives are defined by a special bitmap image which can be created with 3d modeling programs which support sculptures.<br />
<br />
Yet unsupported in core OpenSimulator are 3d models which can be created with 3d modeling softwares like Blender and be saved in various formats. RealXtend module to OpenSimulator already supports 3d models.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
* [http://robynhuffaker.com/sculptblender/tutorial/ Learn to Make Second Life Sculpties in Blender] by Robyn Huffaker (SL name Murgatroyd Zauberflote)<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.blender.org/ Blender]] - Blender is the free open source 3D content creation suite, available for all major operating systems under the GNU General Public License.<br />
* [[http://www.wings3d.com/ Wings 3d]] - Sculpty editor<br />
* [[http://www.qavimator.org/ Qavimator]] - Animation for OpenSim avatars<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
[[Image:Biped.jpg]]<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
* [[OpenSimulator Avatar]]<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
== Terrain ==<br />
<br />
Currently OpenSimulator terrains consists of heightmap and textures for different directions and heights. OpenSimulator terrain can be imported in raw terrain format from several terrain editor tools.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
* [[Tips#Terrain Tidbits|Terrain Tips]]<br />
* [[Using L3DT]]<br />
* [[Terrain making]]<br />
* [[Detailed cross-region terrain making]]<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* L3DT<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
*[[Free Terrains]]<br />
<br />
<br><br />
<br />
=== Additional Terrain Resources ===<br />
<br />
'''TERRAIN EDITING''' <br />
<br />
There is now a Plugin made and available for the free program GIMP by Domino Designs. <br>See [http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich] is easy to install and allows you to bring in RAW files and edit them. <br />
<br />
GIMP is available free and downloadable at [http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ ]<br>GIMP is available for most Operating Systems and Platforms and is User Supported with many features and functions far beyond Terrain Editing. <br />
<br />
<br>'''REFERENCES / SUPPLEMENTAL SOURCES &amp; APPLICATIONS:'''<br>[http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking]<br>Tutorial: Creating OpenSim terrain with Blender [http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/ http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/]<br>Some Free &amp; Some Not, Terrains @&nbsp;[http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/ http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/]<br>Tutorial on [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/05/07/how-to-create-raw-terrain-files-for-second-life-and-opensim-with-terragen/ creating terrain files with Terragen] as well as [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/06/05/how-to-create-megaregion-terrain-raw-files-for-second-life-and-opensim/ using Photoshop to edit terrain files and create megaregion terrain] with a library of [http://tgib.co.uk/category/creations/terrain-creations/ free terrain files] <br />
<br />
Spinmass Virtual Creations, Has Two Products for Terrain Making and Generation which are Free Downloads. Look at Terrain Sculptor &amp; Bailiwick.<br>They are available from [http://www.spinmass.com/ http://www.spinmass.com/] <br />
<br />
<br>'''Three easy to use Online Image Splitters''' <br />
<br />
[Http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/ &nbsp;http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.sliceimage.com/ http://www.sliceimage.com/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/ http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/]<br><br />
<br />
== Sounds ==<br />
<br />
Sounds clips can be used within (scripted) objects and as part of gestures. Current OpenSimulator sound formats are PCM WAVE (.wav) 16-bit/44.1KHz/mono or stereo with a maximum length of 10.00 seconds.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Audacity]] - Audacity® is free, open source software for recording and editing sounds. It is available for Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux, and other operating systems.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.freesound.org/ The Freesound Project]] - The Freesound Project is a collaborative database of Creative Commons licensed sounds.<br />
<br />
== Music ==<br />
<br />
Music can be played via parcel media as either streamed or from a single music file.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.jamendo.com/ Jamendo]] - Jamendo is a community of free, legal and unlimited music published under Creative Commons licenses.</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Artist_HomeArtist Home2011-02-12T19:40:40Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Guides */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Template:Quicklinks}}<br />
<br />
== Artist Documentation ==<br />
<br />
This page contains information about content creation for OpenSimulator including best practices, guides, tools, examples, collaborative projects and of course Creative Commons licensed content.<br />
<br />
Discussion group for people interested in creating content for Metaverse: [[http://groups.google.com/group/open-content-for-metaverse Open Content for Metaverse]]<br />
<br />
Some useful resources of free material:<br />
<br />
A great summary sheet: [[http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgsbx7zg_9mzk6nxtc 3DCG for the hobbyist -- useful products and links]]<br />
<br />
A hobbyist animators blog with all kinds of goodies: [[http://www.cgspeed.com/ cgspeed]]<br />
<br />
A source for free animations, 3d models, textures, etc.: [[http://www.sharecg.com/ ShareCG]]<br />
<br />
A huge 3d graphics source: [[http://www.renderosity.com/ Renderosity]]<br />
<br />
A 3d Artists community: [[http://www.3dcommune.com/ 3dcommune]]<br />
<br />
Runtime DNA: [[http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/downloads.php www.runtimedna.com Free Downloads]]<br />
<br />
Adult oriented content: [[http://www.raunchyminds.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=15 RaunchyMinds Freebies Download]]<br />
<br />
This is not an exhaustive list, please add to it if you can!<br />
<br />
I have tried to include sites which have free Poser/Opensim compatible content which could be used for "personal use" in your own "world". You must check the licensing for any commercial uses.<br />
<br />
== Textures ==<br />
<br />
Textures are images used to cover surfaces of 3d models and terrain. Textures can be anything form 1x1 to 1024x1024 images. Most of the textures for buildings, items and clothes are usually 512x512.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
* Creating tileable textures: [[http://www.gfxartist.com/features/tutorials/740]]<br />
* [http://robynhuffaker.com/sculptblender/2010/03/20/creating-and-using-shadow-maps/ Creating and Using Shadow Maps] by Robyn Huffaker (SL name Murgatroyd Zauberflote)<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.gimp.org/ GIMP]] - GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
* [http://torley.com/torley-textures-available-for-download-in-a-single-zip-pack Torley Textures] is a collection of over 600 textures by Torley Linden. (New download location: http://torley.s3.amazonaws.com/Torley-Textures.zip)<br />
<br />
== Models ==<br />
<br />
Models are 3 dimensional objects which are formed from faces and textures. Models come in many flavors but currently OpenSimulator supports parametrized primitives and sculpted primitives. Parametrized primitives can be created in world with build functionality. Sculpted primitives are defined by a special bitmap image which can be created with 3d modeling programs which support sculptures.<br />
<br />
Yet unsupported in core OpenSimulator are 3d models which can be created with 3d modeling softwares like Blender and be saved in various formats. RealXtend module to OpenSimulator already supports 3d models.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.blender.org/ Blender]] - Blender is the free open source 3D content creation suite, available for all major operating systems under the GNU General Public License.<br />
* [[http://www.wings3d.com/ Wings 3d]] - Sculpty editor<br />
* [[http://www.qavimator.org/ Qavimator]] - Animation for OpenSim avatars<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
[[Image:Biped.jpg]]<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
* [[OpenSimulator Avatar]]<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
== Terrain ==<br />
<br />
Currently OpenSimulator terrains consists of heightmap and textures for different directions and heights. OpenSimulator terrain can be imported in raw terrain format from several terrain editor tools.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
* [[Tips#Terrain Tidbits|Terrain Tips]]<br />
* [[Using L3DT]]<br />
* [[Terrain making]]<br />
* [[Detailed cross-region terrain making]]<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* L3DT<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
*[[Free Terrains]]<br />
<br />
<br><br />
<br />
=== Additional Terrain Resources ===<br />
<br />
'''TERRAIN EDITING''' <br />
<br />
There is now a Plugin made and available for the free program GIMP by Domino Designs. <br>See [http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich http://dominodesigns.info/project/gimpterrainwhich] is easy to install and allows you to bring in RAW files and edit them. <br />
<br />
GIMP is available free and downloadable at [http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ http://www.gimp.org/downloads/ ]<br>GIMP is available for most Operating Systems and Platforms and is User Supported with many features and functions far beyond Terrain Editing. <br />
<br />
<br>'''REFERENCES / SUPPLEMENTAL SOURCES &amp; APPLICATIONS:'''<br>[http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Tweaking]<br>Tutorial: Creating OpenSim terrain with Blender [http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/ http://stringofbits.net/2009/09/tutorial-creating-opensim-terrain-with-blender/]<br>Some Free &amp; Some Not, Terrains @&nbsp;[http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/ http://www.rexxed.com/category/terrain/]<br>Tutorial on [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/05/07/how-to-create-raw-terrain-files-for-second-life-and-opensim-with-terragen/ creating terrain files with Terragen] as well as [http://tgib.co.uk/2010/06/05/how-to-create-megaregion-terrain-raw-files-for-second-life-and-opensim/ using Photoshop to edit terrain files and create megaregion terrain] with a library of [http://tgib.co.uk/category/creations/terrain-creations/ free terrain files] <br />
<br />
Spinmass Virtual Creations, Has Two Products for Terrain Making and Generation which are Free Downloads. Look at Terrain Sculptor &amp; Bailiwick.<br>They are available from [http://www.spinmass.com/ http://www.spinmass.com/] <br />
<br />
<br>'''Three easy to use Online Image Splitters''' <br />
<br />
[Http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/ &nbsp;http://www.chami.com/html-kit/services/is/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.sliceimage.com/ http://www.sliceimage.com/] <br />
<br />
[http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/ http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/online-image-splitter/]<br><br />
<br />
== Sounds ==<br />
<br />
Sounds clips can be used within (scripted) objects and as part of gestures. Current OpenSimulator sound formats are PCM WAVE (.wav) 16-bit/44.1KHz/mono or stereo with a maximum length of 10.00 seconds.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Audacity]] - Audacity® is free, open source software for recording and editing sounds. It is available for Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux, and other operating systems.<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.freesound.org/ The Freesound Project]] - The Freesound Project is a collaborative database of Creative Commons licensed sounds.<br />
<br />
== Music ==<br />
<br />
Music can be played via parcel media as either streamed or from a single music file.<br />
<br />
=== Best Practices ===<br />
<br />
=== Guides ===<br />
<br />
=== Tools ===<br />
<br />
=== Examples ===<br />
<br />
=== Projects ===<br />
<br />
=== Content Libraries ===<br />
<br />
* [[http://www.jamendo.com/ Jamendo]] - Jamendo is a community of free, legal and unlimited music published under Creative Commons licenses.</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Inventory_ArchivesInventory Archives2010-07-21T01:01:42Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Usage */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{Template:Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
==Introduction==<br />
<br />
OpenSim Inventory Archives (IARs) are a means by which inventory folders and items can be saved offline to a single file (an IAR). This file can then be loaded into a different OpenSim installation.<br />
<br />
Like [[OpenSim Archives|OpenSim_Archives]], IARs save all the necessary asset data required to fully restore the items including textures, sounds, scripts and objects contained in the inventory of other objects.<br />
<br />
IARs have been enabled in OpenSim since Git revision 5a64ca (OpenSim 0.6.7 and later).<br />
<br />
==Usage==<br />
<br />
IARs are saved and loaded from the region console. Before performing either of these operations the user that owns the inventory to be used must be present in one of the regions run by the region simulator. You may log off after the save or load operations are initiated, not necessary to stay inworld.<br />
<br />
===save iar===<br />
<br />
The command to save an IAR on the region console is<br />
<br />
save iar <user name> <path> <password> [<filename>]<br />
<br />
where <br />
<br />
* <user name> is the name of the user to save inventory from<br />
<br />
* <path> is the path to an inventory item or folder. If the path is for a folder, that folder and all its contents (both descendant folders and items) are saved. If the path is for an item, then only that item is saved. <br />
<br />
Components of the path are separated by a forward slash ("/"). If you need to specify a path with spaces, you can surround the whole thing with double quotation marks (e.g. "Folder A/Folder B"). <br />
<br />
If a name or folder contains a forward slash ("/") then it can be escaped with the backslash (i.e. "\/") to stop it being seen as a path separator. Back slashes themselves need to be escaped with another backslash (i.e. "\\").<br />
<br />
One further issue here is that it's not possible to distinguish between identically named folders or items on the path - the workaround is to rename your items/folders if you need to specify them in the path :)<br />
<br />
* <password> is the password of the user.<br />
<br />
* <filename> is an optional filename for the IAR. If none is supplied, then the filename user-inventory.iar is used in the current directory. I recommend that iars have the .iar extension.<br />
<br />
====Examples====<br />
<br />
Here's an example. Suppose you have an inventory structure like this<br />
<br />
My Inventory<br />
|<br />
+-- FolderA<br />
| <br />
+-- FolderB<br />
| |<br />
| +-- ItemX<br />
|<br />
+-- ItemY<br />
<br />
If you type <br />
<br />
save iar John Doe FolderA password<br />
<br />
then FolderA and everything in FolderA (FolderB, ItemX and ItemY) will be saved. On the other hand, if you type<br />
<br />
save iar John Doe FolderA/FolderB/ItemX password<br />
<br />
then only ItemX will be saved.<br />
<br />
Since no filename was specified in either of these cases, the items or folders will be saved to a file called user-inventory.iar<br />
<br />
Typing<br />
<br />
save iar John Doe / password<br />
<br />
would save your entire inventory to user-inventory.iar<br />
<br />
===load iar===<br />
<br />
An IAR can be reloaded to an OpenSimulator instance with the load iar command<br />
<br />
load iar <user name> <path> <password> [<filename>]<br />
<br />
where<br />
<br />
* <user name> is the name of the user to whom to load the inventory<br />
<br />
* <path> is the path to which the IAR should be loaded. This has to be a folder which already exists in "My Inventory". See the save iar command for more details.<br />
<br />
* <password> is the password of the user.<br />
<br />
* [<filename>] is an optional filename for the IAR. If none is specified, then the filename is assumed to be user-inventory.iar in the current directory.<br />
<br />
====Examples====<br />
<br />
Again, here's an example. Suppose that "David Hume" has recieved the IAR above containing FolderA, FolderB, ItemX and ItemY. David Hume already has an inventory structure like this.<br />
<br />
My Inventory<br />
|<br />
+-- Folder1<br />
| <br />
+-- Folder2<br />
| <br />
+-- Folder3<br />
<br />
David wants to load the IAR to Folder3, so on the region console he executes<br />
<br />
load iar David Hume Folder1/Folder3 password<br />
<br />
After a little while he ends up with the folder structure<br />
<br />
My Inventory<br />
|<br />
+-- Folder1<br />
| <br />
+-- Folder2<br />
|<br />
+-- Folder3 <br />
|<br />
+-- FolderA<br />
| <br />
+-- FolderB<br />
| |<br />
| +-- ItemX<br />
|<br />
+-- ItemY<br />
<br />
where ItemX and ItemY are ready for rezzing.<br />
<br />
From OpenSim 0.7-rc1 and onwards, you can also load IARs directly from web addresses. For example<br />
<br />
load iar Betrand Russell Folder2 PASSWORD http://justincc.org/downloads/iars/my-great-items.iar<br />
<br />
will load my-great-items from the web into Folder2 of the user "Bertrand Russell".<br />
<br />
== IAR files==<br />
<br />
[http://justincc.org/downloads/iars/my-great-items.iar http://justincc.org/downloads/iars/my-great-items.iar] - justincc's initial example IAR.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Please feel free to place links to other IARs here.<br />
<br />
==Further Information==<br />
<br />
[http://justincc.org/blog/category/iars/ http://justincc.org/blog/category/iars/] - articles by justincc on IARs, including tutorials, background information and possible future developments.<br />
<br />
[http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/?p=29 The OpenSim Library just got more interesting] - Diva Canto's article on how to extend the OpenSim Library using IARs.<br />
<br />
==Use cases==<br />
<br />
Possible uses<br />
<br />
1. To distribute content to other OpenSim installations without need to transfer entire regions. One drawback with IARs for this use case is that creator names are not preserved unless the user has a profile on the target installation. One workaround is to include a notecard detailing the creator and license conditions of the content.<br />
<br />
2. To backup a user's inventory. IARs are currently not that great for this. One can backup an entire inventory by giving a path of "/" to the save iar command. But a load IAR of the same will mean a duplicate set of root child 'standard' folders (Objects, Textures, Clothing, etc.). The loaded folders will not have any type icons.<br />
<br />
==Current limitations==<br />
<br />
* IAR loading and saving is currently done on a single thread. This may lock up the console for a while with very large IARs. This should be addressed in the future<br />
<br />
* Creator names are not preserved unless the profile exists on the target system. This problem may be addressed in the future.<br />
<br />
==File Formats==<br />
<br />
[[IAR Format|IAR File Formats]]<br />
<br />
==FAQ==<br />
<br />
Nothing yet.<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
<br />
Please search the OpenSim Mantis for information on current IAR bugs. <br />
<br />
FEB.23.2010: <br />
<br />
There is a slight "quirk"&nbsp;with MySql in regards to Max_Allowed_Packet size, which the default is 1 Megabyte.&nbsp; This is too small for some of the larger data blobs being stored.&nbsp; It is recomended to increase the default value to 16 Megabytes. <br />
<br />
Locate your MY.ini for MySql (EXAMPLE, in Windows it is located @ "C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.1")&nbsp; Modify this file to include the following under the mysqld section: <br />
<br />
'''[mysqld]''' <br />
<br />
#The TCP/IP Port the MySQL Server will listen on<br>port=3306<br>max_allowed_packet = 16M<br />
<br />
'''Additional Reference''':&nbsp; [http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/packet-too-large.html dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/packet-too-large.html]<br />
<br />
==Current Status==<br />
<br />
Operational but experimental. Bug reports are appreciated and there will almost certainly be quite a few right now. Suggestions for improvement are also welcome. The best place for these right now might be [http://justincc.org/blog/2009/09/14/introducing-opensim-inventory-archives-iars/ my blog post on IARs], since I'm bound to see them then.<br />
<br />
Though we will strive to maintain compatibilty for old archives with newer OpenSimulator versions, please do not rely on these archives as your only backup for inventory.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Users]]<br />
[[Category:Support]]<br />
[[Category:Tech Reference]] <br />
[[Category:Help]]<br />
[[Category:Configuration]]<br />
[[Category:Getting_Started]]<br />
[[Category:Development]]</div>Key Gruinhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Inventory_ArchivesInventory Archives2010-07-21T00:56:36Z<p>Key Gruin: /* Usage */</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{Template:Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
==Introduction==<br />
<br />
OpenSim Inventory Archives (IARs) are a means by which inventory folders and items can be saved offline to a single file (an IAR). This file can then be loaded into a different OpenSim installation.<br />
<br />
Like [[OpenSim Archives|OpenSim_Archives]], IARs save all the necessary asset data required to fully restore the items including textures, sounds, scripts and objects contained in the inventory of other objects.<br />
<br />
IARs have been enabled in OpenSim since Git revision 5a64ca (OpenSim 0.6.7 and later).<br />
<br />
==Usage==<br />
<br />
IARs are saved and loaded from the region console. Before performing either of these operations the user that owns the inventory to be used must be present in one of the regions run by the region simulator to start the operation. You may log off after the save or load operations are initiated, not necessary to stay inworld.<br />
<br />
===save iar===<br />
<br />
The command to save an IAR on the region console is<br />
<br />
save iar <user name> <path> <password> [<filename>]<br />
<br />
where <br />
<br />
* <user name> is the name of the user to save inventory from<br />
<br />
* <path> is the path to an inventory item or folder. If the path is for a folder, that folder and all its contents (both descendant folders and items) are saved. If the path is for an item, then only that item is saved. <br />
<br />
Components of the path are separated by a forward slash ("/"). If you need to specify a path with spaces, you can surround the whole thing with double quotation marks (e.g. "Folder A/Folder B"). <br />
<br />
If a name or folder contains a forward slash ("/") then it can be escaped with the backslash (i.e. "\/") to stop it being seen as a path separator. Back slashes themselves need to be escaped with another backslash (i.e. "\\").<br />
<br />
One further issue here is that it's not possible to distinguish between identically named folders or items on the path - the workaround is to rename your items/folders if you need to specify them in the path :)<br />
<br />
* <password> is the password of the user.<br />
<br />
* <filename> is an optional filename for the IAR. If none is supplied, then the filename user-inventory.iar is used in the current directory. I recommend that iars have the .iar extension.<br />
<br />
====Examples====<br />
<br />
Here's an example. Suppose you have an inventory structure like this<br />
<br />
My Inventory<br />
|<br />
+-- FolderA<br />
| <br />
+-- FolderB<br />
| |<br />
| +-- ItemX<br />
|<br />
+-- ItemY<br />
<br />
If you type <br />
<br />
save iar John Doe FolderA password<br />
<br />
then FolderA and everything in FolderA (FolderB, ItemX and ItemY) will be saved. On the other hand, if you type<br />
<br />
save iar John Doe FolderA/FolderB/ItemX password<br />
<br />
then only ItemX will be saved.<br />
<br />
Since no filename was specified in either of these cases, the items or folders will be saved to a file called user-inventory.iar<br />
<br />
Typing<br />
<br />
save iar John Doe / password<br />
<br />
would save your entire inventory to user-inventory.iar<br />
<br />
===load iar===<br />
<br />
An IAR can be reloaded to an OpenSimulator instance with the load iar command<br />
<br />
load iar <user name> <path> <password> [<filename>]<br />
<br />
where<br />
<br />
* <user name> is the name of the user to whom to load the inventory<br />
<br />
* <path> is the path to which the IAR should be loaded. This has to be a folder which already exists in "My Inventory". See the save iar command for more details.<br />
<br />
* <password> is the password of the user.<br />
<br />
* [<filename>] is an optional filename for the IAR. If none is specified, then the filename is assumed to be user-inventory.iar in the current directory.<br />
<br />
====Examples====<br />
<br />
Again, here's an example. Suppose that "David Hume" has recieved the IAR above containing FolderA, FolderB, ItemX and ItemY. David Hume already has an inventory structure like this.<br />
<br />
My Inventory<br />
|<br />
+-- Folder1<br />
| <br />
+-- Folder2<br />
| <br />
+-- Folder3<br />
<br />
David wants to load the IAR to Folder3, so on the region console he executes<br />
<br />
load iar David Hume Folder1/Folder3 password<br />
<br />
After a little while he ends up with the folder structure<br />
<br />
My Inventory<br />
|<br />
+-- Folder1<br />
| <br />
+-- Folder2<br />
|<br />
+-- Folder3 <br />
|<br />
+-- FolderA<br />
| <br />
+-- FolderB<br />
| |<br />
| +-- ItemX<br />
|<br />
+-- ItemY<br />
<br />
where ItemX and ItemY are ready for rezzing.<br />
<br />
From OpenSim 0.7-rc1 and onwards, you can also load IARs directly from web addresses. For example<br />
<br />
load iar Betrand Russell Folder2 PASSWORD http://justincc.org/downloads/iars/my-great-items.iar<br />
<br />
will load my-great-items from the web into Folder2 of the user "Bertrand Russell".<br />
<br />
== IAR files==<br />
<br />
[http://justincc.org/downloads/iars/my-great-items.iar http://justincc.org/downloads/iars/my-great-items.iar] - justincc's initial example IAR.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Please feel free to place links to other IARs here.<br />
<br />
==Further Information==<br />
<br />
[http://justincc.org/blog/category/iars/ http://justincc.org/blog/category/iars/] - articles by justincc on IARs, including tutorials, background information and possible future developments.<br />
<br />
[http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/?p=29 The OpenSim Library just got more interesting] - Diva Canto's article on how to extend the OpenSim Library using IARs.<br />
<br />
==Use cases==<br />
<br />
Possible uses<br />
<br />
1. To distribute content to other OpenSim installations without need to transfer entire regions. One drawback with IARs for this use case is that creator names are not preserved unless the user has a profile on the target installation. One workaround is to include a notecard detailing the creator and license conditions of the content.<br />
<br />
2. To backup a user's inventory. IARs are currently not that great for this. One can backup an entire inventory by giving a path of "/" to the save iar command. But a load IAR of the same will mean a duplicate set of root child 'standard' folders (Objects, Textures, Clothing, etc.). The loaded folders will not have any type icons.<br />
<br />
==Current limitations==<br />
<br />
* IAR loading and saving is currently done on a single thread. This may lock up the console for a while with very large IARs. This should be addressed in the future<br />
<br />
* Creator names are not preserved unless the profile exists on the target system. This problem may be addressed in the future.<br />
<br />
==File Formats==<br />
<br />
[[IAR Format|IAR File Formats]]<br />
<br />
==FAQ==<br />
<br />
Nothing yet.<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
<br />
Please search the OpenSim Mantis for information on current IAR bugs. <br />
<br />
FEB.23.2010: <br />
<br />
There is a slight "quirk"&nbsp;with MySql in regards to Max_Allowed_Packet size, which the default is 1 Megabyte.&nbsp; This is too small for some of the larger data blobs being stored.&nbsp; It is recomended to increase the default value to 16 Megabytes. <br />
<br />
Locate your MY.ini for MySql (EXAMPLE, in Windows it is located @ "C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.1")&nbsp; Modify this file to include the following under the mysqld section: <br />
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'''[mysqld]''' <br />
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#The TCP/IP Port the MySQL Server will listen on<br>port=3306<br>max_allowed_packet = 16M<br />
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'''Additional Reference''':&nbsp; [http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/packet-too-large.html dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/packet-too-large.html]<br />
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==Current Status==<br />
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Operational but experimental. Bug reports are appreciated and there will almost certainly be quite a few right now. Suggestions for improvement are also welcome. The best place for these right now might be [http://justincc.org/blog/2009/09/14/introducing-opensim-inventory-archives-iars/ my blog post on IARs], since I'm bound to see them then.<br />
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Though we will strive to maintain compatibilty for old archives with newer OpenSimulator versions, please do not rely on these archives as your only backup for inventory.<br />
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[[Category:Development]]</div>Key Gruin