http://opensimulator.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Fritigern&feedformat=atomOpenSimulator - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T11:13:18ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.19.9http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library/Teleport_MapOSSL Script Library/Teleport Map2017-12-14T10:53:12Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div>This script will put a region map on the containing prim, and will instantly teleport the user to the map location that they clicked on.<br />
<br />
The code contains a lot of comments, explaining what does what, and why it is there.<br />
<br />
<source lang="lsl"><br />
// -----------------------<br />
// ++++ TELEPORT MAP ++++<br />
// by FRITIGERN GOTHLY<br />
// Version 1.1<br />
// -----------------------<br />
// Put a region map on a prim, and use that to teleport around.<br />
// This teleport system is amazingly accurate.<br />
// Do note that when a change is made to the region, the map on the <br />
// teleporter will only be updated when the rest of the world map is updated.<br />
<br />
<br />
key map; // This is where the texture UUID will be stored.<br />
integer timeout = 60; // This many seconds for the map to refresh.<br />
integer region_size; // We need this to do a little math later.<br />
integer face = 4; // Which side of the prim the map should appear on.<br />
<br />
refresh(){<br />
map = osGetMapTexture(); // Get the map texture<br />
llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(LINK_THIS,[PRIM_TEXTURE, face, map, <1.0,1.0,0>, <0,0,0>, 0, // Put the map texture on the chosen side of a prim<br />
PRIM_COLOR,face,<1,1,1>,1, // Set the color of the chosen side to white.<br />
PRIM_FULLBRIGHT,face,1]); // Set the chosen side to full bright.<br />
}<br />
<br />
default<br />
{<br />
state_entry()<br />
{<br />
vector size = osGetRegionSize(); // Find out how large the region is.<br />
region_size = (integer)size.x; // Because the length and the width of a region MUST be equal, we only need one of the floats from the vector. <br />
refresh(); // Refresh the map texture<br />
llSetTimerEvent(timeout); // And now we make sure that the map texture gets updated every X seconds. (default 60)<br />
}<br />
<br />
touch_start(integer numdet)<br />
{<br />
if(llDetectedTouchFace(0) != face) return; // If the prim is not touched on the side with the map, then do nothing.<br />
key toucher = llDetectedKey(0); // Get the UUID of the person that touched the map.<br />
vector target = llDetectedTouchUV(0); // Find out where the map has been touched<br />
target.x = (region_size*target.x); // Multiply the X-position of where the map was touched with the region size. This changes value of the vector<br />
target.y = (region_size*target.y); // Multiply the Y-position of where the map was touched with the region size. This changes value of the vector<br />
osTeleportAgent(toucher, target, ZERO_VECTOR); // Teleport the person who touched the prim to the corresponding coordinates in the region.<br />
}<br />
<br />
timer()<br />
{<br />
refresh(); // Refresh the map when the timer runs out.<br />
}<br />
<br />
on_rez(integer start_param)<br />
{<br />
llResetScript(); // Reset the script when rezzed to ensure a fresh map on the prim.<br />
}<br />
}<br />
</source><br />
<br />
[[Category:Scripts]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/IRCBridgeModuleIRCBridgeModule2017-11-28T03:39:11Z<p>Fritigern: Fixed a few typos</p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
== Configuring IRCBridgeModule ==<br />
<br />
<code>IRCBridgeModule</code> allows you to relay chat from your OpenSimulator region to an IRC channel and vice versa. You can use this module to <br />
<br />
* make in-world chat available via a text-only interface such as IRC<br />
* control objects from IRC channels<br />
* use in-world objects to control bots attached via IRC<br />
* ...<br />
<br />
<code>IRCBridge</code> can be used in three modes: <br />
<br />
* in [[#Traditional IRCBridge mode|''traditional mode'']] where we relay all in-world chat from all regions to a single IRC channel on a single server, or<br />
* in [[#Multi-channel mode|''multi-channel mode'']] where we can relay in-world chat from a specific region to a specific channel (or even to a specific server)<br />
* in [[#Object chat relay mode|''object chat relay mode'']] where we only relay chat to and from private in-world channels<br />
<br />
In addition, we can [[#In-World Configuration|send commands]] to <code>IRCBridge</code> from in-world objects to re-configure <code>IRCBridge</code><br />
<br />
== Traditional IRCBridge mode ==<br />
<br />
In the traditional <code>IRCBridge</code> mode ("traditional" because<br />
that was the original <code>IRCBridge</code> ''modus operandi'') all<br />
in-world avatar chat from all regions is relayed to a specific IRC<br />
chat channel on a specific server. Chat from an avatar is reported by<br />
an OpenSimulator powered ''IRC bot'' in the IRC channel. Chat originating on the<br />
IRC channel is reported via "voice of god" in all regions (voice of<br />
god meaning that the in-world avatars will "hear" the chat but won't<br />
be able to see the originator anywhere in the region). <br />
<br />
To configure <code>IRCBridge</code> for traditional mode operation use<br />
the following configuration section in your <code>OpenSim.ini</code><br />
file (modifying as necessary, of course): <br />
<br />
<pre><br />
[IRC]<br />
enabled = true ; you need to set this otherwise it won't connect<br />
server = some.irc.server.net<br />
nick = OpenSimBot<br />
user = "USER OpenSimBot 8 * :I'm an OpenSim to IRC bot"<br />
channel = #opensim<br />
port = 6667<br />
relay_chat = true<br />
report_clients = true<br />
<br />
commands_enabled = false<br />
command_channel = 4711<br />
access_password = WuffWuff<br />
<br />
relay_private_channels = false<br />
relay_private_channel_out = 4712<br />
relay_private_channel_in = 4713<br />
<br />
<br />
;fallback_region = name of "default" region<br />
;MSGformat fields : 0=botnick, 1=user, 2=region, 3=message<br />
; must start with "PRIVMSG {0} : " or irc server will get upset<br />
;for <bot>:<user in region> :<message><br />
msgformat = "PRIVMSG {0} :<{1} in {2}>: {3}"<br />
;for <bot>:<message> - <user of region> :<br />
;msgformat = "PRIVMSG {0} : {1} [{2}]: {3}"<br />
;for <bot>:<message> - from <user> :<br />
;msgformat = "PRIVMSG {0} : {3} - from {1}"<br />
<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Let’s go through the list of configuration options:<br />
<br />
{| align=”center” border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"<br />
|-<br />
! configuration variable<br />
! explanation<br />
|-<br />
| enabled <br />
| you need to set this to “true” otherwise <code>IRCBridgeModule</code> will not be enabled<br />
|-<br />
| server<br />
| the hostname of the IRC server that you intend to use<br />
|-<br />
| nick<br />
| the nickname which <code>IRCBridge</code> will use to connect to the IRC server <br />
|-<br />
| channel<br />
| the IRC channel to connect to<br />
|-<br />
| port<br />
| the port on the IRC server to connect to; this is usually port 6667<br />
|-<br />
| relay_chat<br />
| for traditional mode you need to set this to “true” to relay normal in-world chat <br />
|-<br />
| report_clients<br />
| if you set this to “true” then <code>IRCBridge</code> will notify the IRC channel whenever an avatar logs on, enters a region, leaves a region, and logs off<br />
|-<br />
| msgformat<br />
| select whichever message format you want <code>IRCBridge</code> to use for relaying in-world messages to the IRC channel.<br />
|-<br />
| commands_enabled<br />
| leave as is for traditional mode<br />
|-<br />
| command_channel<br />
| leave as is for traditional mode<br />
|-<br />
| relay_private_channels<br />
| leave as is for traditional mode<br />
|-<br />
| relay_private_channel_in<br />
| leave as is for traditional mode<br />
|-<br />
| relay_private_channel_out<br />
| leave as is for traditional mode<br />
|-<br />
| access_password<br />
| leave as is for traditional mode<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== Multi-channel mode ==<br />
<br />
With multi-channel mode we can configure <code>IRCBridge</code> to<br />
relay chat from different regions into '''different IRC channels''' — or<br />
even into '''different IRC channels on different IRC servers'''!<br />
<br />
The following <code>OpenSim.ini</code> configuration file extract<br />
configures <code>IRCBridge</code> to relay chat from ''region A'' into<br />
IRC channel <code>#opensin-A-opensim.server.net</code><br />
<br />
<pre><br />
channel = "#opensim-[%region]-[%host]"<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Let’s take a closer look at what’s going on here:<br />
<code>IRCBridge</code> allows us to apply run-time variable<br />
substitution (a quite powerful mechanism).<br />
<br />
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" align="center"<br />
|-<br />
! align=”left” | configuration<br />
! align=”left” | explanation<br />
|-<br />
| width="40%" | channel = “#OS”<br />
| will connect all regions to the same channel; multiple opensim<br />
servers, specifying this same name would share the channel<br />
|-<br />
| channel = “#OS[%host]”<br />
| will connect all regions of a particular opensim server to the named<br />
channel; multiple hosts specifying this same pattern would each be<br />
connected to an unique host-name derived channel<br />
|-<br />
| channel = “#OS[%region]”<br />
| will result in each region being connected to a channel derived from<br />
the region's name; in effect, all regions will be connected to a<br />
unique channel; If two opensim servers were running an identically<br />
named region, then those regions would share the channel<br />
|- <br />
| channel = “#OS[%host]-[%region]”<br />
| will result in each server-region combination being connected to an<br />
unique channel; this offers the best guarantee of unique name across<br />
the internet as a whole <br />
|-<br />
| channel = “#OS[%region][%k]”<br />
| this configuration distinguishes consecutive activations of the same<br />
region by affixing an unique numeric to the end of the name<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
In all of these examples, the square brackets are eliminated by the<br />
substitution process. The '%' prefix indicates that this is a run-time<br />
variable. A value in square-brackets and not preceded by '%' indicates<br />
that the value may have been supplied as a value in the IRC ini<br />
configuration. For example, the existing mechanism for naming the<br />
channel could be made unnecessary complicated by specifying: <br />
<br />
<pre><br />
channel = “[channelid]”<br />
channelid = “#my-irc-channel”<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
The substitution process is exhaustive, so a configuration variable<br />
name may be constructed from run-time values. <br />
<br />
To illustrate this, assume that the .ini file contains:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
channel = “[#[%region]]”<br />
#brief1 = “#chatter-1”<br />
#brief2 = “#chatter-2”<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Then region ''brief1'' will be connected to channel ''#chatter-1'', ''brief2''<br />
will be connected to ''#chatter-2'', and all other regions will connect to<br />
channels with names identical to their region names. This is a trivial<br />
example, but becomes more meaningful when we consider all of the other<br />
parameters that might need to be unique per region (server, port<br />
etc). Using this mechanism we can create an ini file that has unique<br />
settings for all aspects of IRC for each region. <br />
<br />
The following run-time values are available to this process:<br />
<br />
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" align="center" <br />
|-<br />
! variable<br />
! explanation<br />
|-<br />
| %host<br />
| external host name associated with a region<br />
|-<br />
| %region<br />
| region name<br />
|-<br />
| %locX<br />
| X coordinate of the region.<br />
|-<br />
| %locY<br />
| Y coordinate of the region.<br />
|-<br />
| %master1<br />
| Master Avatar's first name<br />
|-<br />
| %master2<br />
| Master Avatar's last name<br />
|-<br />
| %k<br />
| A unique numeric assigned to this region, e.g. “0”<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Finally, a more comprehensive example of a configuration file; we are<br />
assuming that we have two regions, ''Wonky'' and ''Borked'': <br />
<br />
<pre><br />
channel = “[%region]”<br />
server = “[[%region]-server]”<br />
port = “[[%region]-port]”<br />
nick = “[[%region]-nick]”<br />
<br />
Wonky-server = irc1.server.org<br />
Wonky-port = 1234<br />
Wonky-nick = WonkyBot<br />
<br />
Borked-server = irc2.anotherserver.net<br />
Borked-port = 1234<br />
Borked-nick = BorkedBot<br />
<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
The ''Wonky'' region will connect to IRC channel <code>#Wonky</code> <br />
via port 1234 of IRC server <code>irc1.server.org</code> and <code>IRCBridge</code><br />
will appear as ''WonkyBot''. Our ''Borked'' region will connect to IRC channel<br />
<code>#Borked</code> via port 1234 of IRC server<br />
<code>irc2.anotherserver.net</code> using the nickname ''BorkedBot''.<br />
<br />
== Object chat relay mode ==<br />
<br />
In object chat relay mode <code>IRCBridge</code> relays messages from<br />
and to in-world channels.<br />
<br />
To configure <code>IRCBridge</code> for this mode you need to use the<br />
following configuration:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
[IRC]<br />
enabled = true ; you need to set this otherwise it won't connect<br />
server = some.irc.server.net<br />
nick = OpenSinBot<br />
channel = #opensin<br />
port = 6667<br />
relay_chat = false<br />
report_clients = false<br />
<br />
commands_enabled = false<br />
command_channel = 4711<br />
<br />
relay_private_channels = true<br />
relay_private_channel_out = 4712<br />
relay_private_channel_in = 4713<br />
<br />
access_password = WuffWuff<br />
<br />
;fallback_region = name of "default" region<br />
;MSGformat fields : 0=botnick, 1=user, 2=region, 3=message<br />
; must start with "PRIVMSG {0} : " or irc server will get upset<br />
;for <bot>:<user in region> :<message><br />
msgformat = "PRIVMSG {0} :<{1} in {2}>: {3}"<br />
;for <bot>:<message> - <user of region> :<br />
;msgformat = "PRIVMSG {0} : {1} [{2}]: {3}"<br />
;for <bot>:<message> - from <user> :<br />
;msgformat = "PRIVMSG {0} : {3} - from {1}"<br />
<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
The important configuration variables here are:<br />
<br />
{| align="center" border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"<br />
|-<br />
! configuration variable<br />
! explanation<br />
|-<br />
| relay_chat <br />
| needs to be disabled (well, you can keep it enabled if your in-world<br />
objects are silent and do not repeat what they heard)<br />
|-<br />
| report_clients<br />
| doesn’t really make sense if you’ve disabled relay_chat<br />
|-<br />
| relay_private_channels<br />
| needs to be set to “true”<br />
|-<br />
| relay_private_channel_in<br />
| all traffic from the IRC channel will be send on this private<br />
channel in-world<br />
|-<br />
| relay_private_channel_out<br />
| all chat on this private in-world channel is relayed to the IRC<br />
channel <br />
|-<br />
| access_password<br />
| set this to a password of your choice<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Your in-world objects then need to use LSL code along the following lines:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
llSay(command_channel, “access_password,from,message”);<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
to send messages to the IRC channel.<br />
<br />
== In-World configuration ==<br />
<br />
The last feature worth mentioning is that you can control <code>IRCBridge</code> from in-world by sending commands on a specific command channel. <br />
<br />
To enable this feature you need to use the following configuration instructions:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
commands_enabled = true<br />
command_channel = 4711<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
{| align="center" border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"<br />
|-<br />
! configuration variable<br />
! explanation<br />
|-<br />
| commands_enabled<br />
| needs to be “true”<br />
|-<br />
| command_channel<br />
| set this to the private in-world channel number that you want to use<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<code>IRCBridge</code> understands the following commands:<br />
<br />
{| align="center" border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"<br />
|-<br />
! configuration variable<br />
! explanation<br />
|-<br />
| server hostname<br />
| change to the new IRC server “hostname”<br />
|-<br />
| port port-number<br />
| change the port used to connect to the IRC server<br />
|-<br />
| channel channel-name<br />
| change the channel name used<br />
|-<br />
| nick new-nick<br />
| change the nick name used<br />
|-<br />
| client-reporting true|false<br />
| enable client reporting<br />
|- <br />
| in-channel channel-number<br />
| change relay_private_channel_in to channel-number<br />
|-<br />
| out-channel channel-number<br />
| change relay_private_channel_out to channel-number<br />
|-<br />
| close<br />
| close the IRC connection<br />
|-<br />
| connect<br />
| open the IRC connection<br />
|-<br />
| reconnect<br />
| close and re-open the IRC connection<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== irc_admin XmlRpc method ==<br />
<br />
<code>IRCBridge</code> supports one XmlRpc method that allows you to obtain the <code>IRCBridge</code>configuration for a specific region. To enable this method you need to enable the <code>[RemoteAdmin]</code> module.<br />
<br />
<code>irc_admin</code> expects two parameters:<br />
<br />
{| align="center" border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"<br />
|-<br />
! parameter<br />
! explanation<br />
|-<br />
| password<br />
| the RemoteAdmin password<br />
|-<br />
| region<br />
| the region name for which you want to the IRC configuration<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
it will return <br />
<br />
{| align="center" border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"<br />
|-<br />
! parameter<br />
! explanation<br />
|-<br />
| server<br />
| the server name<br />
|-<br />
| port<br />
| the port name<br />
|-<br />
| user<br />
| the IRC user name being used<br />
|-<br />
| channel<br />
| the channel name being used<br />
|-<br />
| enabled<br />
| whether the IRC relay is enabled or not<br />
|-<br />
| connected<br />
| whether the IRC relay is connected or not<br />
|-<br />
| nickname<br />
| the current nickname<br />
|}<br />
<br />
here is sample python code showing how to invoke <code>irc_admin</code>:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
import xmlrpclib<br />
s = xmlrpclib.Server('http://opensim.zurich.ibm.com:9000/admin')<br />
print s.irc_admin(dict(password = 'c00lstuff', region = 'zurela'))<br />
<br />
{'channel': '#opensim-lotus3d-zurela-opensim.zurich.ibm.com',<br />
'connected': True,<br />
'enabled': True,<br />
'nickname': 'lotus3dbot66',<br />
'port': '',<br />
'server': 'zurich.irc.ibm.com',<br />
'success': True,<br />
'user': "USER OpenSimBot 8 * :I'm an OpenSimulator to IRC bot"}<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
[[Category:Modules]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Trees_ModuleTrees Module2017-11-28T03:35:47Z<p>Fritigern: oops, silly typo...</p>
<hr />
<div>= Introduction =<br />
<br />
In July 2017 the Trees Module underwent a rejuvenation.<br />
<br />
<div style="background-color:#FFA0A0; padding:10px; padding-bottom:5px; border: 1px #FF544F solid"><br />
'''Caution !''' Configuration changed in OpenSimDefaults.ini.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
== OpenSimDefaults.ini ==<br />
<br />
<source lang="ini"><br />
[Trees]<br />
; enable the trees module. default true<br />
enabled = true<br />
<br />
; active_trees allows module to change its trees in time.<br />
; some will be deleted, others created and rest may grow<br />
; default is false. You can change it with console comand tree active true|false later<br />
active_trees = false<br />
; the trees change execution time rate (in ms)<br />
update_rate = 1000 <br />
<br />
; allow the trees to grow.<br />
; DANGER<br />
; this option causes high network use on the order of <br />
; NumberOfTrees * NumberAvatars * 1000 / update_rate udp packets per second<br />
allowGrow = false<br />
</source><br />
<br />
== Oak.xml ==<br />
<br />
<source lang="xml"><br />
<Copse><br />
<m_name>Oak</m_name><br />
<m_frozen>false</m_frozen><br />
<m_tree_type>Oak</m_tree_type><br />
<m_tree_quantity>100</m_tree_quantity><br />
<m_treeline_low>21</m_treeline_low><br />
<m_treeline_high>31</m_treeline_high><br />
<m_seed_point><br />
<X>128</X><br />
<Y>128</Y><br />
<Z>0</Z><br />
</m_seed_point><br />
<m_range>120</m_range><br />
<m_initial_scale><br />
<X>4</X><br />
<Y>4</Y><br />
<Z>4</Z><br />
</m_initial_scale><br />
<m_maximum_scale><br />
<X>15</X><br />
<Y>15</Y><br />
<Z>20</Z><br />
</m_maximum_scale><br />
<m_rate><br />
<X>0.01</X><br />
<Y>0.01</Y><br />
<Z>0.01</Z><br />
</m_rate><br />
</source><br />
<br />
= Usage =<br />
<br />
* copy the [Trees] section from opensimDefaults to opensim.ini<br />
* create xml files, (copy the example above and edit) per each type of tree you want and locations.<br />
* start region with the module enabled (like the default)<br />
<br />
Then on console and for each of those files, also looking in world:<br />
* do tree load oneXmlFilename.extension<br />
* tree plant TheNameYouGaveOnThatXMLNameField<br />
<br />
In world you should now have a new tree.<br />
* tree active true<br />
<br />
new trees are created<br />
wait a until most of the requested number is present (number is on xml)<br />
<br />
* tree statistics shows the number.<br />
* tree active false<br />
<br />
look around to see if you like the result<br />
it not, type tree remove TheNameYouGaveOnThatXMLNameField<br />
and repeat from the load above.<br />
<br />
if you are happy, type<br />
* tree freeze TheNameYouGaveOnThatXMLNameField true <br />
<br />
and go to next xml file<br />
<br />
When done, keep active false.<br />
The trees are now normal in world prims.<br />
<br />
If you have no plans to change for a long time, change enabled to false on opensim.ini<br />
* shutdown region and restart<br />
<br />
since module is out of the way, you can adjust some the trees to improve, like taking some out of houses<br />
<br />
= Note =<br />
<br />
So this module is really not very a practical one, even if you are the only user of a region.<br />
But can be useful to do initial creation of trees areas.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Modules]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Trees_ModuleTrees Module2017-11-28T03:35:16Z<p>Fritigern: Added this article to the modules category.</p>
<hr />
<div>= Introduction =<br />
<br />
In July 2017 the Trees Module underwent a rejuvenation.<br />
<br />
<div style="background-color:#FFA0A0; padding:10px; padding-bottom:5px; border: 1px #FF544F solid"><br />
'''Caution !''' Configuration changed in OpenSimDefaults.ini.<br />
</div><br />
<br />
== OpenSimDefaults.ini ==<br />
<br />
<source lang="ini"><br />
[Trees]<br />
; enable the trees module. default true<br />
enabled = true<br />
<br />
; active_trees allows module to change its trees in time.<br />
; some will be deleted, others created and rest may grow<br />
; default is false. You can change it with console comand tree active true|false later<br />
active_trees = false<br />
; the trees change execution time rate (in ms)<br />
update_rate = 1000 <br />
<br />
; allow the trees to grow.<br />
; DANGER<br />
; this option causes high network use on the order of <br />
; NumberOfTrees * NumberAvatars * 1000 / update_rate udp packets per second<br />
allowGrow = false<br />
</source><br />
<br />
== Oak.xml ==<br />
<br />
<source lang="xml"><br />
<Copse><br />
<m_name>Oak</m_name><br />
<m_frozen>false</m_frozen><br />
<m_tree_type>Oak</m_tree_type><br />
<m_tree_quantity>100</m_tree_quantity><br />
<m_treeline_low>21</m_treeline_low><br />
<m_treeline_high>31</m_treeline_high><br />
<m_seed_point><br />
<X>128</X><br />
<Y>128</Y><br />
<Z>0</Z><br />
</m_seed_point><br />
<m_range>120</m_range><br />
<m_initial_scale><br />
<X>4</X><br />
<Y>4</Y><br />
<Z>4</Z><br />
</m_initial_scale><br />
<m_maximum_scale><br />
<X>15</X><br />
<Y>15</Y><br />
<Z>20</Z><br />
</m_maximum_scale><br />
<m_rate><br />
<X>0.01</X><br />
<Y>0.01</Y><br />
<Z>0.01</Z><br />
</m_rate><br />
</source><br />
<br />
= Usage =<br />
<br />
* copy the [Trees] section from opensimDefaults to opensim.ini<br />
* create xml files, (copy the example above and edit) per each type of tree you want and locations.<br />
* start region with the module enabled (like the default)<br />
<br />
Then on console and for each of those files, also looking in world:<br />
* do tree load oneXmlFilename.extension<br />
* tree plant TheNameYouGaveOnThatXMLNameField<br />
<br />
In world you should now have a new tree.<br />
* tree active true<br />
<br />
new trees are created<br />
wait a until most of the requested number is present (number is on xml)<br />
<br />
* tree statistics shows the number.<br />
* tree active false<br />
<br />
look around to see if you like the result<br />
it not, type tree remove TheNameYouGaveOnThatXMLNameField<br />
and repeat from the load above.<br />
<br />
if you are happy, type<br />
* tree freeze TheNameYouGaveOnThatXMLNameField true <br />
<br />
and go to next xml file<br />
<br />
When done, keep active false.<br />
The trees are now normal in world prims.<br />
<br />
If you have no plans to change for a long time, change enabled to false on opensim.ini<br />
* shutdown region and restart<br />
<br />
since module is out of the way, you can adjust some the trees to improve, like taking some out of houses<br />
<br />
= Note =<br />
<br />
So this module is really not very a practical one, even if you are the only user of a region.<br />
But can be useful to do initial creation of trees areas.<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Modules}}</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Category:OSSL_functions_without_exampleCategory:OSSL functions without example2015-11-09T05:09:16Z<p>Fritigern: Moved the category from OSSL to OSSL_Functions, where it is easier to notice.</p>
<hr />
<div>'''''(Do not delete this category, even when unused. It will most likely be needed as new OSSL functions get added)'''''<br />
<br />
<br />
The [[OSSL]] functions listed here do currently not have an example script.<br />
This will need to be addressed.<br />
[[Category:OSSL_Functions]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsIsUUIDOsIsUUID2015-11-09T05:04:50Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{osslfunc<br />
|function_syntax=LSLInteger osIsUUID(String thing)<br />
|threat_level=None<br />
|description=Returns 1 if the supplied string is a valid UUID, returns 0 otherwise.<br />
|ossl_example=<source lang="lsl"><br />
default<br />
{<br />
state_entry()<br />
{<br />
key good_key = "09090909-1111-2222-3213-874598734592";<br />
key bad_key = "8e9a6ed1-e2f4-4735-8132-e027bbcd27g1";<br />
<br />
llOwnerSay((string)osIsUUID(good_key));<br />
llOwnerSay((string)osIsUUID(bad_key));<br />
}<br />
}<br />
</source><br />
}}</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsOwnerSaveAppearanceOsOwnerSaveAppearance2015-11-09T04:56:53Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{osslfunc<br />
|function_syntax=key osOwnerSaveAppearance(string notecard)<br />
|csharp_syntax=<br />
|description=Save the owner's current appearance to a notecard in the prim's inventory. This includes body part data, clothing items and attachments. If a notecard with the same name already exists then it is replaced. The owner must be present in the region when this function is invoked. The baked textures for the owner (necessary to recreate appearance on the NPC) are saved permanently.<br />
|threat_level=High<br />
|ossl_example=<source lang="lsl"><br />
// <br />
// osOwnerSaveAppearance exxample.<br />
// This example creates the notecard with the user's appearance in the inventory of a prim.<br />
// You will find the notecard in the contents of the prim after the script has run.<br />
//<br />
<br />
default<br />
{<br />
state_entry()<br />
{<br />
string ownername = llKey2Name(llGetOwner()); // Retrieve the owner's key, and find out his/her name.<br />
string date = (string)llGetDate(); // Store the date in a string.<br />
string notecard_name = ownername+" "+date; // Combine the name and the date for use as a notecard name.<br />
osOwnerSaveAppearance(notecard_name); // Make the notecard.<br />
}<br />
}<br />
</source><br />
|additional_info=<br />
}}</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsReplaceStringOsReplaceString2015-11-09T04:40:10Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{osslfunc<br />
|function_syntax=LSL_String osReplaceString(string src, string pattern, string replace, int count, int start)<br />
|threat_level=VeryLow<br />
|description=This function is for regular expression-based string replacement. The count parameter specifies the total number of replacements to make where -1 makes all possible replacements.<br />
|ossl_example=<source lang="lsl"><br />
//<br />
// osReplaceString usage example<br />
//<br />
<br />
default<br />
{<br />
state_entry()<br />
{<br />
//Define an example text<br />
string example_text = "ThX big rXd fox jumpXd ovXr thX lazy dog";<br />
<br />
// Show the owner the string before it's changed<br />
llOwnerSay("Before : ''"+example_text+"''");<br />
<br />
// Replace all the upper case X-es with the lower case letter e<br />
example_text = osReplaceString(example_text, "X", "e", -1, 0);<br />
<br />
// Show the owner the string after it's changed<br />
llOwnerSay("After : ''"+example_text+"''"); <br />
}<br />
}<br />
</source><br />
}}</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-16Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-162015-10-28T00:56:14Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; <br />
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[10:52] Neas Bade: hey Tleiades<br />
[10:52] Tleiades Hax: brb<br />
[10:52] nebadonb izumi: thats wierd daedius<br />
[10:53] Neas Bade: hey ckrinke<br />
[10:53] Charles Krinkeb: Hello all<br />
[10:53] Daedius Moskvitch: I'll try to get a more detailed log for a bug later<br />
[10:53] Neas Bade: do we want to go upstairs for the meeting? Give people a chance to experience physics by wandering up the stairs?<br />
[10:53] Daedius Moskvitch: Hehe<br />
[10:54] Charles Krinkeb: Coitainly<br />
[10:54] Neas Bade: hey all come joing up here<br />
[10:54] nebadonb izumi: nice<br />
[10:54] Charles Krinkeb: Sorry about the lack chairs.<br />
[10:55] Neas Bade: well, we still don't have sitting working yet do we?<br />
[10:55] nebadonb izumi: yea the chair's are being delivered next week<br />
[10:55] nebadonb izumi: :D<br />
[10:55] Charles Krinkeb: no. That was a sideways comment.<br />
[10:55] Neas Bade: hehehe<br />
[10:55] Daedius Moskvitch: ;)<br />
[10:55] Neas Bade: backordered eh?<br />
[10:55] nebadonb izumi: lol<br />
[10:55] Charles Krinkeb: But, hey, the flags wave.<br />
[10:56] Tleiades Hax: back<br />
[10:56] Charles Krinkeb: neas. One of our thoughts was to build out from the island towards a corner with both a welcome area with prims explaining OpenSim and a place for sim owners to describe their sims.<br />
[10:56] Neas Bade: come up stairs, it's pretty nice up here<br />
[10:57] Charles Krinkeb: Darok: Come up the stairs, please.<br />
[10:58] Daedius Moskvitch: I like the idea of making this a hub of information =)<br />
[10:58] Charles Krinkeb: He may be chatting with DanXor on #opensim-dev<br />
[10:58] Neas Bade: ckrinke, Tedd needs some help being able to log in<br />
[10:59] Neas Bade: can you help him with that?<br />
[11:00] Tleiades Hax: I like this place, kind of cool<br />
[11:00] Charles Krinkeb: I tried. The only two choices are resetting home location or creating a new user with "Wright Plaza" as a home location.<br />
[11:00] Tleiades Hax: I like this place, kind of cool<br />
[11:01] Charles Krinkeb: The libopenjpeg-libsl is throwing off an exception every 5 seconds, am I am holding my breath about the physics right now worrying over the console on another screen.<br />
[11:01] nebadonb izumi: thats not physics related<br />
[11:01] Tleiades Hax: the sim can run pretty stable with that exception<br />
[11:02] nebadonb izumi: someone probably tried to look at the map<br />
[11:02] Tleiades Hax: I see that quite a lot on my dev machine<br />
[11:02] Charles Krinkeb: It appears to be a glibc_2.4 vs glibs_2.3 issue which may be related to the ode not found issue on some other servers.<br />
[11:04] Tleiades Hax: I never really understood why LL decided to use j2k<br />
[11:04] Charles Krinkeb: Daedius: Even though we are just avatars in here, I feel like I am meeting you and creating a sense of community.<br />
[11:04] Daedius Moskvitch: Oh yes, I completely agree Charles =)<br />
[11:04] Tleiades Hax: Tedd... great to see you here<br />
[11:04] Daedius Moskvitch: Its very nice to finally meet some of you all here<br />
[11:05] Tleiades Hax: that is one of the magical things about SL<br />
[11:05] Tedd Maa: where is my SL inventory?<br />
[11:05] Tleiades Hax: lol ...<br />
[11:05] Charles Krinkeb: Hey. Tedd is here. Great.<br />
[11:05] Tedd Maa: *n00b PSYKE*<br />
[11:05] Tedd Maa: ;)<br />
[11:05] Tleiades Hax: easy .. I'm working on that :)<br />
[11:05] Tedd Maa: it worked creating a new user<br />
[11:06] Charles Krinkeb: Just to set a tone for the meeting, I think one of our key issues in the weeks to come is going to be balancing finishing things partly done versus adding new features.<br />
[11:06] Tleiades Hax: Tedd, I read your wiki entry on scripting for the architecture group<br />
[11:06] Tleiades Hax: interesting reading<br />
[11:07] Tedd Maa: I need to make another version of it, a few things thats missing and a few things people misunderstood<br />
[11:07] Tleiades Hax: I think it is important that we talk about the mailing list<br />
[11:07] Tedd Maa: thats what happens when you write document and watch exciting serial killer on TV at the same time<br />
[11:08] Tleiades Hax: it is pretty unstable, and it is the only reliable lasting communication we have<br />
[11:08] Charles Krinkeb: To put it all in perspective: Even though this place looks very advanced, it is prone to crashing with recent changes and is just barely hanging together.<br />
[11:09] Tedd Maa: run it in Debug mode so we know what line that crashed and what brought us there ... debug crash error messages are very useful<br />
[11:09] Tedd Maa: release compiles are not so much<br />
[11:09] Neas Bade: Tleiades have you had mail not got through?<br />
[11:09] Tleiades Hax: most of this week the mailing list was dead, atleast for me<br />
[11:09] Neas Bade: there was a hang up for a couple of days, but that all seemed to flush<br />
[11:09] nebadonb izumi: yea i didnt see many mails this week<br />
[11:09] Tedd Maa: but why is mailinglist difficult now?<br />
[11:09] Tedd Maa: should we consider google?<br />
[11:10] Neas Bade: I don't think people are posting to the list that much<br />
[11:10] Charles Krinkeb: We should encourage more posting to the list as one-line ideas are tough to express.<br />
[11:10] Tleiades Hax: no, and an unreliable list makes it even more unlikely that people will use it<br />
[11:10] Tleiades Hax: but IRC isn't good for everything<br />
[11:11] Neas Bade: right, I want to know if there is some issue that happened other than the delay last week<br />
[11:11] Tedd Maa: lately some people has been a bit busy, my self included, so the general ml/commit has gone down a bit... from experience this is just a relatively short period<br />
[11:11] Tleiades Hax: it is the second time, I have had delays in the flow<br />
[11:12] Neas Bade: well, adam did fix the dns blacklisting for the opensimulator.org box<br />
[11:12] Neas Bade: which means we can move mail over to there instead of berlios<br />
[11:12] Neas Bade: if people believe that is still an issue<br />
[11:12] Tedd Maa: dns blacklisting/mail server I have some experience with<br />
[11:13] Neas Bade: I didn't do it before when we setup the box because it was in a relay black list, which meant lots of people wouldn't get the email<br />
[11:13] Neas Bade: but that is better now<br />
[11:14] Tleiades Hax: Well, the important thing is that the list works, I think that from now on, I will shoot of a test mail every day<br />
[11:14] nebadonb izumi: hello everyone<br />
[11:14] Tleiades Hax: so, if it doesn't show up, you'll know it is missing<br />
[11:14] Tleiades Hax: hello nebadonb<br />
[11:15] Charles Krinkeb: hello, Mw<br />
[11:15] Neas Bade: tleiades is this the Nwc.XmlRpc post, or is there one after that?<br />
[11:16] Tleiades Hax: the Nwc.XmlRpc post, got stuck in the flow<br />
[11:16] Neas Bade: it came through fine for me<br />
[11:16] Wright Juran: hi<br />
[11:16] Tleiades Hax: a few hours ago, I recevided a couple of mails from the list, but I knew from the web-page on berlios that they were there<br />
[11:16] Charles Krinkeb: Hi, Chill. Welcome.<br />
[11:17] chill ken: hello<br />
[11:18] Neas Bade: it looks like the hotmail -> berlios handoff saw some delay<br />
[11:19] Neas Bade: but it's hard to figure out which side muffed that<br />
[11:19] Neas Bade: my email from yesterday got through in about 15 minutes<br />
[11:19] Tleiades Hax: ok.. I'll try an switch to gmail, maybe that will make tings go better<br />
[11:19] Tedd Maa: Looks like a gym club in here<br />
[11:19] Neas Bade: Inventory -> Create -> Body :)<br />
[11:20] Neas Bade: Tleiades, if this is still a problem in a week, I'd suggest we move the mailing lists to the opensimulator.org box<br />
[11:20] Tleiades Hax: while I agree with Charles that we need to focus on fixing bug, I also think that we need to push forward on adding more functionality<br />
[11:20] Neas Bade: that will let us control grey listing and spam measures there, and hopefully debug any other issues that happen<br />
[11:21] Tleiades Hax: Ok.. I'll setup a gmail account<br />
[11:21] Charles Krinkeb: neas: Are you setting the agenda?<br />
[11:21] Neas Bade: so, what's our top bugs list?<br />
[11:21] Neas Bade: I didn't think so, but I can if no one else wants to :)<br />
[11:21] nebadonb izumi: Well i thik its vital that Grid mode be brought inline with Standalone<br />
[11:22] nebadonb izumi: let the gap widen too much more could cause even more bugs down the line<br />
[11:22] Neas Bade: nebadonb, agree, but that is a larger scale issue<br />
[11:22] Neas Bade: hard to call that a single bug :)<br />
[11:22] Neas Bade: so what are the discreet things we need to get there?<br />
[11:22] Tleiades Hax: I'm quite a good ways along with inventory and assets<br />
[11:23] Neas Bade: Tleiades: great!<br />
[11:23] Tleiades Hax: those are two major differences<br />
[11:23] nebadonb izumi: yea thats the biggest gap right now i think that will go along way Tleides<br />
[11:23] nebadonb izumi: well one Grid mode bug<br />
[11:23] nebadonb izumi: is unstable region crossings<br />
[11:24] nebadonb izumi: and also if a Region or Sim goes offline in an unfriendly fashinon, it adversly effects the neighboring sim/regions<br />
[11:24] Tleiades Hax: and problems logging into a sim, if the neighbors are down<br />
[11:24] nebadonb izumi: yea<br />
[11:24] Charles Krinkeb: neas: I think the remoting error issue is pretty high. I put the ones I thought were the top few (at least the ones I worry about the most) on the Office_Hours page.<br />
[11:25] Neas Bade: ckrinke, great, let me bring that up<br />
[11:25] Tedd Maa: I'm sort of designing a binary remote procedure call protocol for script engine<br />
[11:25] nebadonb izumi: yea i think overall that is the biggest Grid mode bug at the moment<br />
[11:25] Tedd Maa: not sure what RPC things are needed to rhe rest, but ...<br />
[11:25] Tleiades Hax: we need to talk about comms protocols<br />
[11:25] Charles Krinkeb: I also was unable to update the grid from r2060 to r2090 as the GridServer locked up twice when run (no exception, but the process had to be killed [twice])<br />
[11:25] Tedd Maa: *needed for the rest<br />
[11:26] Neas Bade: so on the grid crossing issues it seems like we've got at least 2 bugs to dig into<br />
[11:27] nebadonb izumi: yea<br />
[11:27] Neas Bade: 1) gracefully handling the downing of adjacent regions<br />
[11:27] nebadonb izumi: i think thats top priority<br />
[11:27] Tleiades Hax: and some serious latency issues in the protocol<br />
[11:27] Neas Bade: which means figuring out a sane way of invalidating the regionhandles I think<br />
[11:27] nebadonb izumi: yea if a sim goes offline gracefully its not an issue<br />
[11:28] Charles Krinkeb: Yes. The regionHandles are the issue in the database. Invalidating their use would help immensenly<br />
[11:28] nebadonb izumi: but if it crashes its big trouble<br />
[11:28] Neas Bade: 2) a more generic "figure out what is borking the crossing" issue<br />
[11:28] Tleiades Hax: I have some code, almost ready for that<br />
[11:28] Neas Bade: which probably requires some debug tracing put into place<br />
[11:28] Tleiades Hax: charles got me sidetracked, on the inventory asset thing<br />
[11:28] Neas Bade: tleiades, great! (again)<br />
[11:28] nebadonb izumi: oh and ALso neas<br />
[11:28] nebadonb izumi: in Windows<br />
[11:29] nebadonb izumi: in grid mode sims running Windows<br />
[11:29] nebadonb izumi: there is no border crossing what so ever<br />
[11:29] nebadonb izumi: it only works in Linux at this point<br />
[11:29] nebadonb izumi: Linux to Linux<br />
[11:29] Neas Bade: pshaw, who needs windows anyway ;)<br />
[11:29] Neas Bade ducks<br />
[11:29] nebadonb izumi: and variation of throwing a windows server in the mix it doenst work<br />
[11:29] nebadonb izumi: LOL<br />
[11:29] Daedius Moskvitch: =)<br />
[11:29] Neas Bade: do we have bug numbers for these bugs?<br />
[11:30] Neas Bade: i.e. have they been reported yet?<br />
[11:30] Charles Krinkeb: GridServer has a method to check for live sims called "CheckSims" that is unused. Perhaps we should enable it before crossing or throwing a remoting exception?<br />
[11:30] nebadonb izumi: I beleive there are Mantis #'s off the top fo my head im not sure what they are<br />
[11:30] Charles Krinkeb: Yes, they are all in Mantis.<br />
[11:30] Tleiades Hax: charles.. that method is dirt old, and must be completely rewritten<br />
[11:30] Tleiades Hax: hence my mail on the list regarding xmlrpc<br />
[11:31] Neas Bade: can someone find them and give them to me? I think I'll create a Top 10 bugs list on the wiki, so we can get people focussed on some of the big bugs<br />
[11:31] Tleiades Hax: and my item on the agenda regarding comms protocols<br />
[11:31] Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#449 and #461 are pertinent.<br />
[11:31] Neas Bade: I need to get mantis to start sending me email on new bugs, I can't figure out why it won't do that... :(<br />
[11:31] Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#493 deals with the new grid server stuff not working.<br />
[11:33] Neas Bade: MW, do you want to weigh in on protocols?<br />
[11:34] Tleiades Hax: today we use a mixture of rest and xmlrpc and a tad of binary .net remoting<br />
[11:34] Neas Bade: per IRC, I think MW is tied up at at the moent<br />
[11:34] Tleiades Hax: I would suggest that we move towards rest<br />
[11:34] Neas Bade: Tleiades +1 on that<br />
[11:35] Tleiades Hax: and that the message format be XML, *not* LLSD<br />
[11:35] Neas Bade: XML over JSON?<br />
[11:36] Neas Bade: agreeing that LLSD isn't what we want here<br />
[11:36] Tleiades Hax: hmm .. JSON is a definate maybe<br />
[11:36] Tedd Maa: how much traffic is there?<br />
[11:36] Tleiades Hax: XML is just so darn easy to convert to objects in .NET<br />
[11:36] Tleiades Hax: XML is just so darn easy to convert to objects in .NET<br />
[11:37] Neas Bade: xml is fine as well<br />
[11:38] Neas Bade: Tleiades, I don't think you'll get any resistance on moving some of the coms protocols to REST<br />
[11:38] Tedd Maa: what is the amount of communication?<br />
[11:38] Tleiades Hax: I think it is important that we are prepared to see server components like grid, asset and inventory implemented in something else than mono<br />
[11:38] Neas Bade punts to Tleiades on Tedd's question<br />
[11:39] Tleiades Hax: Tedd.. well need a lot of comms to get all the funtionality in place<br />
[11:39] Neas Bade: as I assume there is a good specific instance you've already got in mind for this<br />
[11:39] Tleiades Hax: groups, profiles<br />
[11:39] Tedd Maa: we need a high volume binary RPC for scripting<br />
[11:39] Neas Bade: right, and we'll probably also need that for physics if we decide to remote that<br />
[11:40] Tleiades Hax: the first place I'll use this is for grid server, and maintaining a list of live sims/regions<br />
[11:40] Tleiades Hax: next I'll use it for assets<br />
[11:40] Tleiades Hax: then inventory<br />
[11:40] Charles Krinkeb: Question: Architecturally, are then any perceived issues of concurrent execution in our user and grid server code when we have 20 users logging in at the same moment with our comms protocols ideas?<br />
[11:40] Neas Bade: which isn't a 100hz sort of operation like scripting and physics need to be<br />
[11:41] Charles Krinkeb: Hello Chris. Welcome<br />
[11:42] Neas Bade: actually, ckrinke, it would be good to see how your box running this is doing right now, as we've got ODE running and a reasonable amount of folks here (maybe time for another crash-a-thon)<br />
[11:42] Tleiades Hax: no, I think the physics and scripting needs a faster protocol, compared to what I am doing<br />
[11:42] Neas Bade: yeh, definitely agreed<br />
[11:42] Chris Down: Hello Charles<br />
[11:42] Neas Bade: I consider physics and scripting the exceptions here vs. the rule<br />
[11:42] Tedd Maa: the library will be simple enough, using interfaces on each side ...<br />
[11:43] Tedd Maa: just thinking it might be good to use a single protocol all over?<br />
[11:43] Charles Krinkeb: neas: top says 50% of the cpu and 211meg of memory used for mono. This is region is running on the server where osgrid, svn and most everything else is running on.<br />
[11:44] Tleiades Hax: why couldn't we use the same?<br />
[11:44] Neas Bade: if we move to a binary protocol for our user <-> grid <-> asset services we're going to have to gut it again down the road if we want to be able to be compatible with the agent / region domain model that is coming from Linden.<br />
[11:44] Tedd Maa: Charles; does the box have HyperThreading or dualcore or something?<br />
[11:44] Neas Bade: if we start using REST in that space now, it will be an easier transition<br />
[11:45] Tleiades Hax: but why not use HTTP for everything?<br />
[11:45] Charles Krinkeb: I doubt it. It is an AMI running on EC2 (Amazons Elastic Computing Cloud) and is a virtual machine.<br />
[11:45] Tedd Maa: HTTP is only well suited for humans (just like plain XML and HTML), not well suited for computers<br />
[11:45] Neas Bade: Tleiades for something like scripting where you really will need closer to 10ms turn around, http is going to be an issue I think<br />
[11:45] Tleiades Hax: have you guys done any measurements on the difference between binary tcp and an HTPP keep alive connection?<br />
[11:45] Tedd Maa: scripting requires high speed, low overhead, etc<br />
[11:46] nebadonb izumi: its a 1.6ghz Processor with ike 2 gig of ram<br />
[11:46] nebadonb izumi: or something<br />
[11:46] Tleiades Hax: http keep alive?<br />
[11:46] nebadonb izumi: One EC2 Compute Unit provides the equivalent CPU capacity of a 1.0-1.2 GHz 2007 Opteron or 2007 Xeon processor. This is also the equivalent to an early-2006 1.7 GHz Xeon processor referenced in our original documentation. See Measuring Compute Resources for a complete description of an EC2 Compute Unit.<br />
[11:47] Tleiades Hax: well, it is just a suggestion<br />
[11:47] Tedd Maa: Imagine script server running 10.000 scripts... The overhead for all those requests between server and region with HTTP REST would be something like 10-100 times more traffic and ditto CPU cycles to decode the traffic<br />
[11:47] Neas Bade: honestly, I think your real overhead isn't even the http, but the xml parsing<br />
[11:47] nebadonb izumi: according to Amazon Website its 1 Virtual Core<br />
[11:48] Neas Bade: it can always be revisited later<br />
[11:48] nebadonb izumi: 1.7 GB memory 1 EC2 Compute Unit (1 virtual core with 1 EC2 Compute Unit) 160 GB instance storage (150 GB plus 10 GB root partition) 32-bit platform I/O Performance: Moderate<br />
[11:48] Neas Bade: it seems that both Tedd and Tleiades are making progress in their domains with sane approaches. We can always go back later and look to see if one solution works better for the other once we've got more working code. :)<br />
[11:49] Tedd Maa: yeah, my point was simply that the binary rpc for scripting has to work 100% and will be very efficient ... but if arguments like compatibility comes into the picture then REST is probably better<br />
[11:49] Neas Bade: yep<br />
[11:50] Tedd Maa: when LL opens their grid we need to be compatible, so that is the direction we need to go in<br />
[11:50] Tleiades Hax: I'd like to do some measurments<br />
[11:50] Tedd Maa: I'm hoping to get Babbage onboard on the remote script engine<br />
[11:50] Neas Bade: that would be nifty :)<br />
[11:50] Neas Bade: Tleiades agreed<br />
[11:50] Neas Bade: though we'll need to have more bits working first to do that, I think<br />
[11:51] Charles Krinkeb: What would it take to be able to edit a prim directly and expect the script editor to come up? That would expedite script testing.<br />
[11:52] Neas Bade: Ok, I'm going to have to run quite soon. Can I get a volunteer or two help me on sorting out the Top 10 Bugs and getting them up on the wiki (and mailed to the list)?<br />
[11:52] Tleiades Hax: well... grid mode inventory and assets<br />
[11:52] Neas Bade: also has anyone had a chance to look at the roadmap: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap<br />
[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: I'll take care of that.<br />
[11:53] Neas Bade: Tleiades, how close is that code to being ready for the tree?<br />
[11:53] Tleiades Hax: assets are very close<br />
[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: neas. shall I post the log also or is Tl doing that this week?<br />
[11:53] Darok Kaminski: I have to go, bye<br />
[11:53] Tleiades Hax: bye Darok<br />
[11:53] nebadonb izumi: bye Darok<br />
[11:53] Neas Bade: Also, based on MW's comment on IRC, can we move this meeting an hour earlier?<br />
[11:53] Neas Bade: byr Darok<br />
[11:54] Charles Krinkeb: Yes<br />
[11:54] nebadonb izumi: or have 2 meetings a week<br />
[11:54] Neas Bade: as that would make it easier for MW to attend<br />
[11:54] Tleiades Hax: I won't have any issues by moving this one hour back<br />
[11:54] nebadonb izumi: for differnt hemispheres<br />
[11:54] Daedius Moskvitch: I am all for an hour back =)<br />
[11:54] nebadonb izumi: yea anythings good for me<br />
[11:54] Neas Bade: great<br />
[11:55] Neas Bade: I'll change that on the wiki<br />
[11:55] Neas Bade: ckrinke, you also have the todo to get IRC briding working for this region by next week :)<br />
[11:55] Daedius Moskvitch: w00h00! =)<br />
[11:56] Charles Krinkeb: neas. I need this to be a configuration option or I loose the ability to update this region as I update all the others.<br />
[11:56] Charles Krinkeb: We can leave it frozen in time if you wish, revision speaking.<br />
[11:57] Neas Bade: ok, I'll commit to making this something you can put into the .ini by the end of the week<br />
[11:57] Neas Bade: beat me up if i haven't done it by friday<br />
[11:57] Tleiades Hax: the code is pretty easy, it is all in there, it just needs to be dusted off, and some config file gymnastics<br />
[11:57] Tedd Maa: my tummy hurts... I ate too much tacos<br />
[11:57] nebadonb izumi: lol<br />
[11:57] Charles Krinkeb: No way will I beat you up. You do as good a job of it as I do beating myself up.<br />
[11:58] Neas Bade: mmmmm tacos<br />
[11:58] Tedd Maa: I need tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes...<br />
[11:58] Charles Krinkeb: Kudos to nebabon for building this beautiful corporate park.<br />
[11:58] Daedius Moskvitch: Indeed!<br />
[11:58] Neas Bade: Yeh, I am quite impressed<br />
[11:59] Charles Krinkeb: Too bad the water doesnt run <heh><br />
[11:59] Tleiades Hax: yes, lets hope it survives moving to a new inventory/asset storage<br />
[11:59] nebadonb izumi: thanks guys<br />
[11:59] Charles Krinkeb: Not if the gridserver doesnt run. And it doesnt run now.<br />
[11:59] nebadonb izumi: no big deal if it doesnt<br />
[11:59] nebadonb izumi: i can rebuild it<br />
[11:59] Neas Bade: we can do some hand migration on that front<br />
[12:00] nebadonb izumi: this was only about 4 hours of work<br />
[12:00] Neas Bade: that's still more than would be polite to loose<br />
[12:00] Charles Krinkeb: Our hope is to add a welcome center for newcomers and a place to allow sim owners to describe their sims.<br />
[12:01] Neas Bade: ok, I'm running off. Thanks for everyone coming. I'm really happy we are getting such attendance already :)<br />
[12:01] Neas Bade: and it's really nice to see the environment evolve around us<br />
[12:01] nebadonb izumi: yea good stuff<br />
[12:01] Tleiades Hax: hmmm... it should be possible to write some code, which will export from the SQLite databases, and import it into the gridmode stuff<br />
[12:01] Charles Krinkeb: See you later all. Thanks for cominig.<br />
[12:01] Daedius Moskvitch: Take care =)<br />
[12:01] Tleiades Hax: bye<br />
[12:01] nebadonb izumi: yea it shjoudlnt be hard<br />
[12:02] nebadonb izumi: although i noticed your using Binary for the UUID in mysqql<br />
[12:02] nebadonb izumi: while Sqlite is using varchar<br />
[12:02] nebadonb izumi: just needs some converting<br />
[12:02] nebadonb izumi: wont just be a simple export/import<br />
[12:03] Tleiades Hax: I'm worried about the size of the database, that will cut the size down by 56 per asset<br />
[12:03] nebadonb izumi: yea<br />
[12:03] nebadonb izumi: its not a huge deal<br />
[12:03] Chris Down: Bye everyone. I hope to be able to get more involved soon.<br />
[12:03] nebadonb izumi: all we would have to do is save-xml<br />
[12:03] nebadonb izumi: load-xml<br />
[12:03] Tedd Maa: perl regex should be able to do that<br />
[12:03] nebadonb izumi: and i retexture everything<br />
[12:04] nebadonb izumi: i assume we will still be storing the assets the same way<br />
[12:04] nebadonb izumi: or will we actually begin using the assets folder?<br />
[12:04] Tleiades Hax: the assets folder will only be used by the asset server<br />
[12:05] nebadonb izumi: yea so initially the assets will still be stored on the sims in the same fashion it is now/<br />
[12:05] nebadonb izumi: ?<br />
[12:05] nebadonb izumi: in the .yap file<br />
[12:05] nebadonb izumi: ?<br />
[12:05] Tleiades Hax: no<br />
[12:05] nebadonb izumi: yea so just transfering the asset data in the database wont work<br />
[12:06] Tleiades Hax: the assets will be stored using mysql on the asset server<br />
[12:06] nebadonb izumi: is that how it is now?<br />
[12:06] Tleiades Hax: and all the sims will use http/rest to retrieve the assets<br />
[12:06] nebadonb izumi: yea<br />
[12:06] nebadonb izumi: right now its being stored in the .YAP fie right?<br />
[12:06] nebadonb izumi: or am i wrong about that<br />
[12:06] Tleiades Hax: well, yes and no<br />
[12:06] Tleiades Hax: we have two implementations<br />
[12:07] Tleiades Hax: depending on the setting in OpenSim.ini<br />
[12:07] nebadonb izumi: ah ok<br />
[12:07] nebadonb izumi: what setting uses the .yap?<br />
[12:07] Tedd Maa: there are plans to move physics engine to remote?<br />
[12:07] Tleiades Hax: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim.ini<br />
[12:08] Tedd Maa: if so, should we look at some kind of tree structure?<br />
[12:08] Tleiades Hax: asset_database = db4o<br />
[12:08] Tleiades Hax: makes it use the yap file<br />
[12:08] Tleiades Hax: anything else will make the assets go to SQLite<br />
[12:08] Tedd Maa: example; level 1 frontend server operating on low resolution, level 2 medium resolution, level 3 high resolution<br />
[12:08] nebadonb izumi: ok cool<br />
[12:08] nebadonb izumi: thats good<br />
[12:09] Tleiades Hax: but that will change soon<br />
[12:09] nebadonb izumi: that makes it easier<br />
[12:09] nebadonb izumi: yea<br />
[12:09] nebadonb izumi: cant wait<br />
[12:09] Tedd Maa: level 1; 1 server, level 2: 2 servers, level 3: 5 servers <- support many more users than a single server could<br />
[12:09] Tleiades Hax: ok, capturing the log now, and saving it to the wiki<br />
</pre><br />
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<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-09Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-092015-10-28T00:54:13Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
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[10:45] Stefan Andersson: By the way; if anybody wants to explore the code, writing a simple 'module'<br />
[10:45] Stefan Andersson: that logs all chat in a region to file would be a fun little project<br />
[10:45] Dalien1 Talbot: indeed<br />
[10:45] Tleiades Hax: and usefull for the meetings as well<br />
[10:46] Stefan Andersson: MW introduced the module architecture so that people could write things more or less stand-alone.<br />
[10:46] Dalien1 Talbot: shouldn't we better revive the IRC gateway module ?<br />
[10:46] Dalien1 Talbot: that one was quite functional..<br />
[10:46] Stefan Andersson: Personally, I'm surprised that we haven't had more people setting up custom sims and writing modules.<br />
[10:46] Stefan Andersson: Why not have both?<br />
[10:46] Dalien1 Talbot: true.<br />
[10:47] Stefan Andersson: Everybody seems to want to hax core funcs.<br />
[10:47] Tleiades Hax: the infrastructure for dynamically loading modules isn't in place yet<br />
[10:47] Stefan Andersson: Which is fine; but I think the big breakthru comes the day people start pushing code from their own web sites.<br />
[10:48] Stefan Andersson: Tlei, that's why I want people to get cracking at it. ;)<br />
[10:48] Tleiades Hax: I think two things need to change, maybe three<br />
[10:48] Tleiades Hax: we need a way do dynamically register plugins<br />
[10:48] Tleiades Hax: we need to fill in the wiki page on modules<br />
[10:49] Tleiades Hax: and as a possible last thing, but almost unrelated<br />
[10:49] Stefan Andersson: That should be easy enough; a pick-up directory, or a part of the config.<br />
[10:49] Tleiades Hax: I think we should isolate the plugin pattern we use into an interface<br />
[10:49] Tleiades Hax: I think both<br />
[10:49] Stefan Andersson: Well, yes; the plug-ins should have a well-defined facade into the system<br />
[10:50] Stefan Andersson: that should coincide with the script engine facade<br />
[10:50] Tleiades Hax: scan a subdirectory at run time, and look in the config file<br />
[10:50] Stefan Andersson: As I said, simple enough, I think.<br />
[10:50] Stefan Andersson: We already have dir-scanners and config readers..<br />
[10:50] Tleiades Hax: yes, we have all the component parts<br />
[10:51] Tleiades Hax: should be a piece of cake to do<br />
[10:51] Stefan Andersson: Actually, we have so many of them they should be refactored into generic plug-in handlers<br />
[10:52] Tleiades Hax: true<br />
[10:52] Tleiades Hax: which is why I think we should define an IPlugin interface<br />
[10:56] Stefan Andersson: Definitively<br />
[10:56] Stefan Andersson: Actually, if we could get all our plug-ins into the same structure, so that the different plugin managers could just fetch a list of plug-ins implementing a certain type; that'd be like ace++<br />
[10:57] Neas Bade: welcome all<br />
[10:57] Neas Bade: we actually have a pretty reasonable turn out already<br />
[10:57] Dalien1 Talbot: all of the plugins - like ?<br />
[10:58] Stefan Andersson: So that the IPlugin should have something like IPlugin.Register( IRegisterPluginFacade facade )<br />
[10:58] Dalien1 Talbot: ah something like meta-interface then ?<br />
[10:58] Stefan Andersson: and IRegisterPluginFacade would have something like RegisterPlugin<TPlugin>( TPlugin instance )<br />
[10:58] Neas Bade: man, it will be nice when we have chains and can sit :)<br />
[10:59] Stefan Andersson: That would mean 'Register me as handling calls to interface TPlugin'<br />
[10:59] Neas Bade: will someone volunteer to upload transcript of the office hours?<br />
[11:00] Stefan Andersson: Then any Plugin could ask IPluginFacade for GetHandler<TPlugin>()<br />
[11:00] Tleiades Hax: if I don't crash, I can do it<br />
[11:00] Charles Krinkeb: I'll be the backup.<br />
[11:00] Dalien1 Talbot: I'll also bounce it to the blog as well.<br />
[11:00] Neas Bade: Tleiades, you have logging turned on?<br />
[11:00] Stefan Andersson: Hm. GetHandler<TPlugin>( string name ) I guess<br />
[11:00] Neas Bade: ok, cool<br />
[11:00] Charles Krinkeb: is neas==sean?<br />
[11:00] Neas Bade: yes<br />
[11:00] Charles Krinkeb: got it<br />
[11:00] Neas Bade is Sean Dague<br />
[11:01] Neas Bade: here and in SL<br />
[11:01] Michael Wright: seems like this is going to be everyone<br />
[11:01] Neas Bade: sorry for showing up a little late, dalien / stefan, what did we I wonder into?<br />
[11:01] Stefan Andersson: Um, anybody up for implementing what I just said? :P<br />
[11:01] Neas Bade: yes, I agree<br />
[11:02] Tleiades Hax: hmm. where do I turn on logging?<br />
[11:02] Stefan Andersson: We were just discussing refining the plug-in handling.<br />
[11:02] Stefan Andersson: Ok, so, I'm off for a while....<br />
[11:02] Neas Bade: stefan: ok<br />
[11:02] Tleiades Hax: k<br />
[11:02] Charles Krinkeb: As the host, welcome to Sang. Which I believe to the most stable sim on osgrid. It is checked for functionality every morning, runs on the osgrid server and has not crashed once.<br />
[11:03] Neas Bade: tleides it is under preferences somewhere<br />
[11:04] Michael Wright: really need to fix up the time progressing sometime (night comes a bit too suddenly)<br />
[11:04] Tleiades Hax: think of as being close to equator<br />
[11:04] Neas Bade: Tleiades posted some suggested agenda on the wiki, which seems like as good a place to start as any. Though prior to that, are there other specific things people would like to talk about?<br />
[11:04] Neas Bade: MW: heh :)<br />
[11:05] Neas Bade: one of the things I'd like to throw out there is starting to build a master todo list on the wiki, as I think that will help letting people know where they can contribute bits<br />
[11:06] Tleiades Hax: yes, agreed<br />
[11:06] Neas Bade: man, everyone's quiet :)<br />
[11:06] Dalien1 Talbot: i have crashed a couple of times :)<br />
[11:06] Tleiades Hax: I think we should clean up the 0.5 list<br />
[11:06] Tleiades Hax: make a free for all list of features they'd like<br />
[11:06] Neas Bade: tleiades, I'd like to hear your thoughts on better approaches to the database layer as well<br />
[11:07] Tleiades Hax: and a list of features we plan for 0.5<br />
[11:07] Neas Bade: MW: no worries<br />
[11:07] Tleiades Hax: I like the list the libsl guys have<br />
[11:08] Neas Bade: url?<br />
[11:08] Tleiades Hax: http://www.libsecondlife.org/wiki/Roadmap<br />
[11:09] Tleiades Hax: as for database layer, I think we should consider things in stages<br />
[11:09] Neas Bade: Ok, I just started a Roadmap page on the wiki<br />
[11:09] Tleiades Hax: right now, focus should be on getting stuf to work<br />
[11:09] Neas Bade: I'll take notes into it in "Uncategorized" for now and refine from there<br />
[11:09] Tleiades Hax: kind of brute force<br />
[11:10] Tleiades Hax: inventory is ok for mysql and sdague has sqlite well under control<br />
[11:11] Michael Wright: the asset system is one area that so needs doing, I have been going to do it for weeks now, but as some of you know, for the last few weeks I've been very busy and just haven't had time<br />
[11:11] Tleiades Hax: I have written some unit tests for that, and verified both sqlite and mysql<br />
[11:11] Charles Krinkeb: Is it a correct assumption that inventory database stuff will not affect the sql users and regions table in grid mode?<br />
[11:11] Neas Bade: tleides, well, I think you correctly pointed out that some of the use of DataSets ends up being problematic for larger data (as we load it all into memory)<br />
[11:12] Tleiades Hax: I think mysql will be used for the larger grids, and sqlite for the standalone ones<br />
[11:12] Neas Bade: I'm assuming you are going to take a slightly different approach on the mysql stuff for that?<br />
[11:12] Tleiades Hax: that is my gut feeling, so no big worries I think<br />
[11:12] Neas Bade: if you come up with a better pattern, I'll adapt the sqlite code to match that<br />
[11:13] Tleiades Hax: yes, not quite as elegant as your code, but it won't flood server memory<br />
[11:13] Neas Bade: yeh, that's fine :)<br />
[11:13] Neas Bade: performance counts for something ;)<br />
[11:13] Neas Bade: we can probably pull some patterns out of it and make it both pretty and performant<br />
[11:14] Neas Bade: I'll admit to being pretty ado.net ignorant when I got started on that code, so learning as I go<br />
[11:14] Tleiades Hax: IInventoryData implementation in MySql, is a sample, on how I plan to approach to MySQL<br />
[11:14] Neas Bade: great<br />
[11:14] Neas Bade: also, those unit tests you have, can you check them into the build tree somewhere sensible?<br />
[11:15] Neas Bade: it would be really great to start getting tests in place for key function<br />
[11:15] Tleiades Hax: well, problem with those are, what about programmers who aren't used to working with unit tests<br />
[11:15] Charles Krinkeb: What sort of tests, neas?<br />
[11:15] Neas Bade: we beat them with sticks until they like it :)<br />
[11:15] danxor danx0r: heh<br />
[11:16] Tleiades Hax: I have written some unitttests, for inventory data<br />
[11:16] danxor danx0r: looks like yoga class<br />
[11:16] Neas Bade: :)<br />
[11:16] Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps tests could go on the wiki with simple step-by-step?<br />
[11:16] nebadonb izumi: heheh yea<br />
[11:16] Tleiades Hax: next will be unit tests for assets<br />
[11:16] Michael Wright: yeah doing unit tests are always good.<br />
[11:16] danxor danx0r: hi sorry I'm late -- technical glitches<br />
[11:17] Neas Bade: danxor and I were actually talking about testing earlier, and I was thinking about starting to create a functional test suite by using libsl to create bots and walk them through the environment. It would help with isolating some of the region crossing bugs I think.<br />
[11:18] Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: indeed. plus, with loadtesting as well...<br />
[11:18] Charles Krinkeb: Hmm. 9 avatars, 8 green dots.<br />
[11:18] Tleiades Hax: especially for the database plugins, it is the only way I can think of, which improves the probability of all the plugins working as expected<br />
[11:18] Tleiades Hax: hey, that is a great idea, automated testing of sim functionality<br />
[11:18] Tleiades Hax: I love that concept :-)<br />
[11:18] danxor danx0r: unit tests, ftw<br />
[11:18] Dalien1 Talbot: charles: self does not create the green dot :)<br />
[11:18] Neas Bade: tleiades: agreed<br />
[11:18] danxor danx0r: so would this be something we could all use on a single machine in stand-alone?<br />
[11:18] nebadonb izumi: you dont see yourself charles<br />
[11:19] Neas Bade: danxor, yes, I think so<br />
[11:19] danxor danx0r: minimap is too small to see individual dots<br />
[11:19] danxor danx0r: ahh zoom. nv<br />
[11:19] Tleiades Hax: danxor.. zoom works<br />
[11:19] danxor danx0r: mind<br />
[11:19] Neas Bade: at least that would be the goal<br />
[11:20] danxor danx0r: it's great to finally see what you all look like :-)<br />
[11:20] Tleiades Hax: lol<br />
[11:20] Michael Wright: I think charles is right about the map, I see my yellow dot for myself then 7 green dots (but there is 8 other people here) one person isn't getting a dot<br />
[11:20] Dalien1 Talbot: s/like/alike/ ? :)<br />
[11:20] Neas Bade: heh :)<br />
[11:20] danxor danx0r: sort of like that old "Addicted To Love" video<br />
[11:20] Charles Krinkeb: It builds a sense of community, and that is very good.<br />
[11:20] danxor danx0r: I see yello + 8<br />
[11:20] Dalien1 Talbot: hmm indeed me too.<br />
[11:21] Tleiades Hax: so, should I check the unit tests in?<br />
[11:21] Neas Bade: yes<br />
[11:21] Tleiades Hax: roger that<br />
[11:21] Neas Bade: how do you execute them at the moment?<br />
[11:21] Neas Bade: is it a manual run, or nunit?<br />
[11:22] Tleiades Hax: well, I set my unit test module as executable, and run "nunit-gui"<br />
[11:23] Tleiades Hax: we probably should set up a propper nunit test project<br />
[11:23] Neas Bade: lets start with what you have and work towards that goal<br />
[11:23] Tleiades Hax: ok<br />
[11:24] Tleiades Hax: having my tests in svn will actually help me, I have lost 'em twice already<br />
[11:24] Tleiades Hax: deleted the project folder, to get a fresh copy of opensim, and forgot to backup the tests<br />
[11:24] Dalien1 Talbot: given the speed with which the things change, i think it is good to push the stuff in as early as possible (assuming it does not break the build or functionality)<br />
[11:25] Dalien1 Talbot: even if it is piece by piece<br />
[11:25] Tleiades Hax: yes, small pieces at a time<br />
[11:25] Tleiades Hax: but I think some branches in svn would be a good thing<br />
[11:25] Dalien1 Talbot: hmm then you'd need to maintain more than one<br />
[11:25] Neas Bade: svn branches are actually a beast to merge<br />
[11:26] Michael Wright: we used to have branches as generally it just leads to problems<br />
[11:26] Dalien1 Talbot: i would rather try to keep it contained within one branch<br />
[11:26] Michael Wright: as= and<br />
[11:26] Neas Bade: I was thinking of creating a mercurial clone of svn trunk for people that wanted to do local branch changes<br />
[11:26] Charles Krinkeb: We declare a moratorium on updates from time to time for a few revisions if we need to pursue an idea that breaks the build for the general user.<br />
[11:27] Dalien1 Talbot: Charles: my build system always keeps the latest successful build<br />
[11:27] danxor danx0r: speaking of svn, I was thinking of creating opensim-libs<br />
[11:27] Neas Bade: in my experience using a distributed scm like mercurial makes life much easier if you want to do lots of branch stuff<br />
[11:27] Dalien1 Talbot: but ideally the build should never break<br />
[11:27] danxor danx0r: and starting down the path of getting a proper 3rd party build<br />
[11:27] Michael Wright: yeah, having a stable tag branch , that is only updated say once a week or whatever, but we tell everyone (non developers) to stick to that, is fine<br />
[11:27] danxor danx0r: what's mercurial? sounds like git<br />
[11:28] Neas Bade: danxor, good point<br />
[11:28] Charles Krinkeb: I was responding to Dan's comment a day or so ago that demanding the build always works may put the developers in a bind from time to time.<br />
[11:28] Neas Bade: danxor, yes, like git, but easier to learn to use<br />
[11:28] Dalien1 Talbot: MW: so that branch would be always re-synced automagically ? or needs manual maintenance ?<br />
[11:28] danxor danx0r: it'll need a merge every week sounds like<br />
[11:28] danxor danx0r: or maybe not<br />
[11:28] danxor danx0r: just replace it with the latest thing<br />
[11:28] Dalien1 Talbot: hmm that would mean manual maintenance... = pita.<br />
[11:29] danxor danx0r: hmmm<br />
[11:29] Dalien1 Talbot: could do simpler imho<br />
[11:29] Neas Bade: is this discussion on the stable tag, or on mercurial?<br />
[11:29] Dalien1 Talbot: just declare that the stuff should work on monday morning build or such<br />
[11:29] Tleiades Hax: stable tag, should be pretty easy to do, I think<br />
[11:29] danxor danx0r: if testing really works, you could build nightly, test, and update stable if test passes<br />
[11:30] Neas Bade: we need a few tests before we could believe that :)<br />
[11:30] danxor danx0r: good way to exercise the unit tests; if they miss something, we'll hear right away from users<br />
[11:30] Neas Bade: but that does tie nicely into test automation to move the stable branch<br />
[11:30] Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: that's almost what i do on opensim.be, except i do not have the unittests - merely if the compile succeeds then i update with the new binary...<br />
[11:31] Neas Bade: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap<br />
[11:31] Charles Krinkeb: Dalien, best to test that the client logs into the new binary to be sure.<br />
[11:31] Neas Bade: been trying to update that on the fly with things poping into my head<br />
[11:32] Dalien1 Talbot: ckrinke: indeed. once there are automated tests for that, I will include them.<br />
[11:32] Tleiades Hax: those automated tests, using libsl would be soooo cool<br />
[11:32] Dalien1 Talbot: although this boils down a bit to the unit testing<br />
[11:32] Dalien1 Talbot: i assume that every person that commits the code does test that the code actually works :)<br />
[11:32] Neas Bade: yes, I think automated tests with libsl will help a lot. I'm going to start digging into that tomorrow<br />
[11:33] Dalien1 Talbot: there were a couple of glitches - but they are usually caught by the build failures, it seems.<br />
[11:33] Tleiades Hax: the problem is testing on all platforms<br />
[11:33] Charles Krinkeb: I believe it is fair to say that code committed denotes responsibility to ensure users on both Linux & Windows have not gone backwards.<br />
[11:33] Dalien1 Talbot: ideally we should have an autobuild for both linux + windows<br />
[11:34] Neas Bade: right, well we need some automation there first, then we can see about that<br />
[11:34] Dalien1 Talbot: so that the windows folks did not have to bother with the linux setup, and vice versa.<br />
[11:34] Neas Bade: we've got opensimulator.org for the linux side<br />
[11:34] chill ken: is the stable tag idea due to time between releases being too long? what about doing more minor releases?<br />
[11:34] Dalien1 Talbot: neas: ah you started to do the builds there as well ?<br />
[11:34] Neas Bade: no, I haven't<br />
[11:34] Neas Bade: but we could<br />
[11:34] danxor danx0r: charles: not sure it's reasonable to expect every commit to include full windows + linux tests<br />
[11:34] danxor danx0r: unless they are automated<br />
[11:34] Dalien1 Talbot: ah ok - because http://ruth.opensim.be/build does do nightly build (nightly CET :)<br />
[11:35] danxor danx0r: I try to use my intuition about how far to test each commit<br />
[11:35] Neas Bade: yeh, and I think that's fair<br />
[11:35] Dalien1 Talbot: yeah i think it is a good approach.<br />
[11:35] Neas Bade: if people are running off svn they need to know there are risks there<br />
[11:35] Charles Krinkeb: No, but I would suggest it is reasonable that each commit, makes a commitment to ensure the users have moved forward and not backwards. That can be as simple as making sure at least one user compiles and runs on the other platform.<br />
[11:35] Tleiades Hax: I think almost all, run off svn head<br />
[11:35] danxor danx0r: that's exactly why there should be a semi-stable branch for the increasing number of 'power users' who compile but don't typically code<br />
[11:36] Dalien1 Talbot: Charles: I do not have the windows environment, and some folks do not have linux.<br />
[11:36] Neas Bade: well, I'm actually leaning against the stable tag, as it ends up being a crutch for not releasing more often<br />
[11:36] Charles Krinkeb: I would concur with Sean<br />
[11:36] Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: maintaining more than one branch is a pain..<br />
[11:36] danxor danx0r: yeah, I think the defacto assumption has been, test n your own machine<br />
[11:36] Tleiades Hax: I'm leaning towards that point of view too<br />
[11:37] danxor danx0r: typically if you're not doing something involving build or native libs, you won't break the other platform<br />
[11:37] danxor danx0r: though I did have an exception where mono didn't run something .NET did<br />
[11:37] Tleiades Hax: the biggest pain is in the native libs<br />
[11:37] danxor danx0r: I suppose we could run mono on windows, and say mono is the gold standard for "this build doesn't segfault"<br />
[11:37] Neas Bade: I think that people are running on svn because the code is moving fast. We can't keep the code moving fast if we require a full regression test on every checkin :)<br />
[11:37] Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: indeed<br />
[11:38] danxor danx0r: Tleiades -- I want to talk about the lib problem<br />
[11:38] Neas Bade: yeh, native libs is a beast<br />
[11:38] Neas Bade: danxor: go for it<br />
[11:38] danxor danx0r: I think *all* libs, native or managed, that are not par tof standard build should be in a separate project<br />
[11:38] danxor danx0r: it will have two subfolders, managed & unmanaged<br />
[11:38] danxor danx0r: and each one has folders for each lib<br />
[11:39] danxor danx0r: then a top-level script to (eventually) invoke all the makes<br />
[11:39] danxor danx0r: (though some are VS hand-make only now)<br />
[11:39] Neas Bade: I like that approach<br />
[11:39] danxor danx0r: copy the dll's & so's into bin<br />
[11:39] danxor danx0r: and perhaps create zips -- tho that gets into architecture<br />
[11:39] Neas Bade: I think it would make sense not to polute bin/ with them though<br />
[11:39] Neas Bade: it would be nice to have a seperate lib/<br />
[11:39] danxor danx0r: ie, someone somewhere needs to build them for each target supported<br />
[11:40] danxor danx0r: neas (sdague?) -- dunno how mono .net deals with looking for them<br />
[11:40] danxor danx0r: but keep in mind stuff like ode.net.dll needs to find the unmanged ode.dll<br />
[11:40] danxor danx0r: AND, sometimes ode.dll will need to find other native stuff<br />
[11:40] Tleiades Hax: mono is actually easier than .net I think<br />
[11:40] Neas Bade: you just need to add paths in the prebuild.xml<br />
[11:40] Neas Bade: or nant<br />
[11:40] danxor danx0r: well I don't mind polluting bin, if it's not in subversion<br />
[11:41] danxor danx0r: ok I didn't explain right --<br />
[11:41] danxor danx0r: you can choose to build libs, _OR_ you just donwload a zip file<br />
[11:41] danxor danx0r: which someone built for your platform<br />
[11:41] danxor danx0r: and that zips into bin, or ./lib if you prefer<br />
[11:41] danxor danx0r: no binaries in subversion!<br />
[11:41] Neas Bade: well, what you are really talking about is opensim-libs releases<br />
[11:41] danxor danx0r: yes, right<br />
[11:41] Neas Bade: yep<br />
[11:42] Neas Bade: I'm all for that<br />
[11:42] danxor danx0r: but it's not going to be on the same schedule as opensim commits<br />
[11:42] Tleiades Hax: I like that too<br />
[11:42] Neas Bade: opensim-libs is an svn repo<br />
[11:42] danxor danx0r: yup<br />
[11:42] danxor danx0r: we can start with just reasonable file organization<br />
[11:42] Neas Bade: we can make it an svn external to the main opensim so you can have a single checkout to get the all if you are buliding from source<br />
[11:42] danxor danx0r: and the big makefile, all hail the make can come later<br />
[11:42] Neas Bade: well, probably we want nant instead of make<br />
[11:42] danxor danx0r: because for now, you gotsta do all the README's and INSTALL.txt<br />
[11:42] danxor danx0r: for each liv<br />
[11:43] danxor danx0r: lib<br />
[11:43] danxor danx0r: but at least, these will be the proper versions,<br />
[11:43] danxor danx0r: with maybe an opensim README about compile opts<br />
[11:43] Neas Bade: ok, danxor, you got the ball for that one?<br />
[11:43] danxor danx0r: so you can walk through it and end up at aknown state<br />
[11:43] Dalien1 Talbot: hm how do we "freeze" the version of the foreign lib ?<br />
[11:43] danxor danx0r: yeah (sigh)<br />
[11:43] Neas Bade: to do the new repo<br />
[11:43] danxor danx0r: I'll start it<br />
[11:43] Dalien1 Talbot: e.g. libsl<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: what else besides ode do I need to build?<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: libsl,<br />
[11:44] Neas Bade: libsl<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: is taht C++?<br />
[11:44] Dalien1 Talbot: if we just have it "pull the latest"<br />
[11:44] Neas Bade: it's libopenjpeg is the .so<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: did we get the version thing right now?<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: dalien -- "pull the latest" is a problem --<br />
[11:44] Dalien1 Talbot: then the changes in the libsl would break the opensim-libs<br />
[11:44] Dalien1 Talbot: precisely<br />
[11:44] Neas Bade: dalien, you can set a version number on an svn external IIRC<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: that's why we need copies of everything -- so we can say<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: we know this works with opensim<br />
[11:44] Neas Bade: sort of like a tag<br />
[11:44] danxor danx0r: you want to pull unstable and take a bet, go ahead<br />
[11:44] Dalien1 Talbot: or we svn co -r<br />
[11:45] Dalien1 Talbot: particular revision number<br />
[11:45] Neas Bade: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s03.html<br />
[11:45] Tleiades Hax: we are caught inbetween chairs on libsl<br />
[11:45] danxor danx0r: dalien -- well whoever maintains it needs to document what they do<br />
[11:45] danxor danx0r: there may be patches or subtle make changes<br />
[11:45] Dalien1 Talbot: cos we'd ideally then need the universal approach to all of the libs<br />
[11:45] danxor danx0r: for instance, I modified ODE's build to statically link those stupid msvc dll's<br />
[11:46] danxor danx0r: but at least it's there in svn, in a known state<br />
[11:46] Dalien1 Talbot: right... so could do something like gentoo & co - download the version that is needed, unpack, possibly patch, build ?<br />
[11:46] Tleiades Hax: msvc dll dependencies are always a pain<br />
[11:46] danxor danx0r: if someone does somethhing funky, yeah you just svn -r opensim-libs<br />
[11:46] danxor danx0r: nice<br />
[11:46] Stefan Andersson: Ok, so back.<br />
[11:46] Neas Bade: yeh, getting there would be great<br />
[11:46] danxor danx0r: tl -- turns out you can just compile statically but no one does<br />
[11:46] Stefan Andersson: Wow, quite the turnout. And no sim crashes.<br />
[11:46] danxor danx0r: ok I take the ball on this, with my copiouis free time<br />
[11:47] Tleiades Hax: yes, we do that at my workplace<br />
[11:47] Stefan Andersson waves YAY!<br />
[11:47] danxor danx0r: I'd love to have another commit-level dev on physics...<br />
[11:47] danxor danx0r: no crash because we all stand still with our arms out<br />
[11:47] Neas Bade: speaking of physics, how is that all going?<br />
[11:47] danxor danx0r: and act like it's IRC<br />
[11:47] danxor danx0r: physics update: got a major bug with terrain<br />
[11:47] danxor danx0r: strange one, hunting it down<br />
[11:47] Charles Krinkeb: Yep, you'all made a very stable sim server.<br />
[11:48] danxor danx0r: then some tweaks on bouncinetss<br />
[11:48] danxor danx0r: bounciness<br />
[11:48] paulie Femto: Howdy hi!<br />
[11:48] Neas Bade: hi paulie<br />
[11:48] danxor danx0r: darok made some bullet improvements but it needs real work<br />
[11:48] Tleiades Hax: hi paulie<br />
[11:48] danxor danx0r: Gerard did that awesome hollow patch, but it's one of 20+ prim types<br />
[11:48] danxor danx0r: all of which can be in combination -- so that's a ton of work<br />
[11:48] Neas Bade: are there specific things others can do to help out?<br />
[11:49] danxor danx0r: I'd like to pull GErard in if possible<br />
[11:49] danxor danx0r: well...<br />
[11:50] Tleiades Hax: at some point, work on assets will overlap with the prim types<br />
[11:50] Neas Bade: right, that's a good point tleiades<br />
[11:50] danxor danx0r: help: prim types<br />
[11:50] danxor danx0r: yes<br />
[11:50] danxor danx0r: it's some wicked stuff<br />
[11:51] danxor danx0r: common code to manage it would be great. Not sure who needs to know other than physics + client tho<br />
[11:51] danxor danx0r: scripts?<br />
[11:51] Tleiades Hax: scripts will need it<br />
[11:51] Tleiades Hax: to change prims based on scripts<br />
[11:51] Tleiades Hax: and those changes needs to be persisted into the asset store<br />
[11:52] Tleiades Hax: I scanned the ll functions today, and all of those functions are not implemented<br />
[11:52] Dalien1 Talbot: MW/lbsa: would like to spend 3-4 minutes with you later to discuss the TP stuff...(not to interrupt the physics thread now)<br />
[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: TL. Only about a third are implemented.<br />
[11:53] Neas Bade: right, I think actually getting assets somewhat more functional is probably required first<br />
[11:53] Tleiades Hax: yes, I noticed, and for pretty good reasons too<br />
[11:53] Neas Bade: which I'm very excited tleiades is digging into so much :)<br />
[11:53] Tleiades Hax: I plan on working on that, for a little while<br />
[11:53] Michael Wright: Dalien, okay but think for me at least, its going to have to be tomorrow, been a long day and need to spend some time resting<br />
[11:53] danxor danx0r: other physics issues:<br />
[11:54] danxor danx0r: in my opinion, ODE will not cut it without it being forked and worked on<br />
[11:54] danxor danx0r: it's just too damn unstable numerically<br />
[11:54] Dalien1 Talbot: ok.. actually i think i will need to discuss with Tleiades too :-)<br />
[11:54] danxor danx0r: it throws exceptions that need to be handled in C++<br />
[11:54] danxor danx0r: ppl have recommended OGre and other things<br />
[11:54] paulie Femto: Hows Bullet comin along?<br />
[11:54] Neas Bade: once we get assets working to a reasonable amount, there are a few other folks that I work with that are happy to grind out LSL functions<br />
[11:54] danxor danx0r: you sort of need a 'game engine' on top of physics, I've been ad-hacking it<br />
[11:55] danxor danx0r: bullet would need similar investment<br />
[11:55] danxor danx0r: but at least it's C#<br />
[11:55] paulie Femto: BulletX is more managed from the start, yeah.<br />
[11:55] Neas Bade: danxor, can you explain the difference between what we physics and game engine?<br />
[11:55] Neas Bade: in terms of what opensim needs?<br />
[11:56] danxor danx0r: well<br />
[11:56] danxor danx0r: phsics is very general<br />
[11:57] danxor danx0r: objects, vectors, momentum, collision<br />
[11:57] danxor danx0r: game engines add character classes<br />
[11:57] danxor danx0r: terrain<br />
[11:57] danxor danx0r: ability to modify & move stuff around without all hell breaking loose<br />
[11:57] danxor danx0r: the character class is probably the most important<br />
[11:57] danxor danx0r: and vehicle thingies<br />
[11:57] danxor danx0r: it can all be done from scratch, you know, just another layer of code to conceptualize and debug<br />
[11:58] danxor danx0r: I started out thinking it would be piece of cake<br />
[11:58] danxor danx0r: like everything, turns out it's sort of hard & stuff<br />
[11:58] Neas Bade: what do you think the best approach here is in terms of getting there sooner rather than later?<br />
[11:58] Neas Bade: :)<br />
[11:58] danxor danx0r: so if someone did it, I'd rather not have to<br />
[11:58] Neas Bade: what, it's not SMOP?<br />
[11:58] danxor danx0r: I think I need to look into what's available for C#<br />
[11:58] danxor danx0r: rather for .NET I guess<br />
[11:58] danxor danx0r: SMOP?<br />
[11:59] Neas Bade: simple matter of programming<br />
[11:59] danxor danx0r: sorry felt the need to collide<br />
[11:59] Tleiades Hax: no physics here<br />
[11:59] danxor danx0r: heh<br />
[11:59] Charles Krinkeb: basicphysics only on Sang<br />
[11:59] danxor danx0r: oh well<br />
[11:59] danxor danx0r: so can I walk thru you?<br />
[11:59] danxor danx0r: ok<br />
[12:00] danxor danx0r: hah SMOP exactly<br />
[12:00] Neas Bade: hehehe<br />
[12:00] danxor danx0r: frankly before this project, I poo-pooed "game engines"<br />
[12:00] Charles Krinkeb: "mere implementation detail"?<br />
[12:00] Tleiades Hax: can we break the physics thing into smaller pieces?<br />
[12:00] danxor danx0r: I figured I'm a macho programmer, etc<br />
[12:00] paulie Femto: Has anyone seen nixnerd around? Anyon eknow if he solved his issues with PHP launching a screen session?<br />
[12:00] paulie Femto: brb. door.<br />
[12:02] Charles Krinkeb: Sean: Do you envision this as a recurring weekly meeting and if so, where do we meet next Tuesday?<br />
[12:02] Neas Bade: ok, I need to run away for a bit and pick up food at the farm here. Can people look at the Roadmap I started at: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap and embelish with more<br />
[12:02] Neas Bade: yes, I think we should try to do this every week<br />
[12:02] danxor danx0r: tleiades: one issue with physics is it's wired into the main code kinda slapdash<br />
[12:03] Neas Bade: given that we've all gotten a bit more scattered on IRC, it is helpful to have once a week of actually people all being roughly active at the same time<br />
[12:03] danxor danx0r: there was talk pre 0.4 of a proper event model<br />
[12:03] Charles Krinkeb: This sim is always up<br />
[12:03] Neas Bade: want to repropose event models on the -dev list?<br />
[12:03] Tleiades Hax listens<br />
[12:03] danxor danx0r: but we'd be more productive chatting if SL chat had name completion like IRC<br />
[12:04] Neas Bade: yeh, maybe :)<br />
[12:04] Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: it's a client feature on IRC :)<br />
[12:04] Tleiades Hax: meeting here, is a good way of keeping track of our progress<br />
[12:04] Michael Wright: I think the tuesday meetings every week is good, its a little bit late for me, but we aren't going to get times that are good for everyone, and I guess one bonus of it being at this time on a tuesday is that if we stick to a hour, then Zero's office hour is straight after (ie its just starting now)<br />
[12:04] Neas Bade: yeh, that was also a sneaking idea by me :)<br />
[12:04] danxor danx0r: have LL said anything about physics in the WG?<br />
[12:04] danxor danx0r: it seems to get short shrift<br />
[12:04] Neas Bade: nope, not yet<br />
[12:05] danxor danx0r: like "yeah, we'll add some physics spice at the end"<br />
[12:05] Stefan Andersson: Yeah; it's a bit late for me too, I can't do any real work, but as MW said, it's good enough.<br />
[12:05] danxor danx0r: it shoud be a core ingredient, not a condiment :)<br />
[12:05] Charles Krinkeb: The best meetings have a beginning, a middle, and most important, an end.<br />
[12:05] Neas Bade: honestly, the lindens haven't been big on details for the AWG yet<br />
[12:05] Stefan Andersson: Alas, I need to go to bed, as I'm supposed to rise in like 5 hours.<br />
[12:05] Tleiades Hax: I am so totally at odds with the AWG<br />
[12:05] Stefan Andersson: Bye all, ace seeing you all on Sang.<br />
[12:05] Tleiades Hax: nite<br />
[12:05] Neas Bade: nite<br />
[12:05] danxor danx0r: well we need to do some wiki work on 0.5<br />
[12:05] Charles Krinkeb: nite all<br />
[12:05] Dalien1 Talbot: ok cya Stefan<br />
[12:06] danxor danx0r: are we all agreed that there be some sort of physics officially supported?<br />
[12:06] Stefan Andersson: (Sang's proabbly gonna be that legendary 'sirst island' that people talk about in SL)<br />
[12:06] Neas Bade: well, get over to SL now for Zero's office hours, and you can probably bring it up<br />
[12:06] danxor danx0r: ok<br />
[12:06] danxor danx0r: I'll probably just listen for a bit<br />
[12:06] Neas Bade: I took a screen shot<br />
[12:06] danxor danx0r: are we breaking up already?<br />
[12:06] Tleiades Hax: yes<br />
[12:06] Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: I'll ping you on SL for a TP ?<br />
[12:06] Dalien1 Talbot: I will blog the meeting :)<br />
[12:06] Neas Bade: I plan to do it every week, so we can have an animated progression of opensim<br />
[12:06] danxor danx0r: you look Mahvleous!<br />
[12:06] Neas Bade: catch you all later<br />
[12:07] danxor danx0r: later<br />
[12:07] Neas Bade: dalien, sure<br />
[12:07] Tleiades Hax: danxor, I think a lot will want to catch Zero Lindens office hours<br />
[12:07] danxor danx0r: where is zero's office<br />
[12:07] Tleiades Hax: hmm... I forgot<br />
[12:07] Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: ping me on SL in a few - dalien talbot, once I get there via Sean, I TP you too :)<br />
[12:07] Dalien1 Talbot: cya on SL...<br />
[12:07] danxor danx0r: ok<br />
[12:08] Tleiades Hax: should we reconvene?<br />
[12:08] Dalien1 Talbot: lets continue in IM on the SL ?<br />
[12:08] Dalien1 Talbot: (and could do a group there, i suppose?)<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-27Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-272015-10-28T00:51:12Z<p>Fritigern: HURRR DURRRRR forgot to close the <pre> tag/</p>
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<div><!-- Dev-meeting to begin in some minutes.. Note to european visitors: due to the difference in summer-/wintertimetime the meeting starts at 7PM CET --><br />
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[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:04] Sheera Khan: and lots of "unable to fetch profile data still :-/<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: unable to fetch data will likely be normal for HG travelers at the moment<br />
[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: You're late. Again. We're docking your pay.<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: depends on what version of profiles the grid is running<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: unfrotunately osgrid still runs the original one<br />
[11:05] Sheera Khan: yes yes ...<br />
[11:05] Sheera Khan: I know ...<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Anyone who is interested in volunteering for OSCC this year please make sure to regsiter asap<br />
[11:06] Sheera Khan: maybe it could be a good idea to switch that with the mandatory update announced?<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2015/<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: that wont happen for a while<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so im not going to really get into that now<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: as I have no idea when that will happen<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: wont be before OSCC though<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: would be to chaotic<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it may not be as bad as you think either<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: if you are running 0.8.1-post fixes or newer you will be ok<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we will make sure everyone gets ample notice<br />
[11:08] Sheera Khan: sure, I'm on 0.8.2-DEV<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we wont just pull the trigger without a lot of notice<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: if you are on 0.8.1 dev fully updated you are probably ok already<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you know anyone who might be interested in OSCC volunteering or planning an event<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the second day this year is basically just all informal stuff<br />
[11:10] Sheera Khan: is there a special commit which has to be included to be save?<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt even have to be on the OSCC grid<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it hasnt really been determined yet Sheera, but I think right now its safe to say when it happens anyone running 0.8.1-post-fixes branch or newer will be ok<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's timed for people in the netherlands on bad day. 5 december is feast day for many<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: (not mne)<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: oh that sucks<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: my experieence tells me though that almost every day of the year somebody has something going on<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:11] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: well, mostly for people with kids..<br />
[11:11] Sheera Khan: well, Metro uses a relativly early 0.8.2-DEV that's from a time just about when 0.8.1-postfixes was released<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I have no doubt metro will be fine<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: as long as everyone is keeping up to date<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sint nicolas here in the country<br />
[11:12] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i know, i'm dutch too :)<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok well be sure to email the conference commitee and let them know<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we can possibly avoid that in the future<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: you might be able to send notes when you register too<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: so please mention it then as well<br />
[11:13] Sheera Khan: 12/6 is St Nikolaus in Germany<br />
[11:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it will all be streamed and recorded<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so you could in theory watch on tablet or phone<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and still kind of partake<br />
[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Has a atreaming service been chosen?<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: my time is very limited this year<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i cant really be on every team again<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect though that has not been fully decided and options are always welcome<br />
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: This year should be LOTS simpler to stream anyway.<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: maybe can even have multiple camera views going of same event<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: kind of as backup as well<br />
[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year I sat so long doing it that I had cramps in my legs. lol<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: have to but sooner you can register as a volunteer and get involved the better<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: time is short<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its always a long weekend<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: this year will only be 1 hardcore day<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: so should be a bit less stress<br />
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: And only one track, yeah?<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yes all the presentations will occur in the keynote area<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and we will have expo zones like previous years<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but there will hopefully be a lot more external events this year<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Why you cannot have a static camera. so you run it and not need todo much after that<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: so we can rely more on Hypergrid<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: basically that is what we do<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but sometimes there are slides<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and otehr things you need to focus on<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we have a nice camera hud<br />
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Because streamers also coordinate parcel audio, skype calls, etc. It's more complicated than it sounds.<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: that lets the person who is streaming pick various camera angles easily<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yea it is highly coordinated event<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of work, but its always fun too<br />
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: already seeing a lot of interest so that is good<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: bunch of volunteers have registerd, but we can certainly always use more<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so spread the word if you can<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: even if thats all you can do its great help<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: also I need some good builder types<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: who can clean up last years oars<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: the Landing Zone and Breakout zone<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: need to be cleaned up so I can share the oars<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i already have regions setup on OSCC grid to do it<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: we need to remove all the event stuff and make it more generric<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so basically its like a Landing Zone and Breakout Zone Template<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyway thats about it for OSCC. If you have questions just let me know<br />
[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Willl there be door prizes? ;)<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Their has been talk of another prize hunt type game<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so we also need people who have good content they made who are ok with giving them as prizes<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: of course needs to be stuff that people will find interesting and useful<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: There will probably be some physical rewards for people who can donate at certain levels<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I will be making another 3D printed design<br />
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Phrasing. ;)<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: oops... I'm back. I'm in the middle of setting up a new server.<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: The Hypergrid Safari folks are heavily involved this year<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and they have some plans to show off hypergrid<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you can probably speak with them to be part of a tour<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if you have something cool to show off<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything else they wanted to talk about?<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: are we into DST yet?<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: no next week<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ok taht should be fun<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: take note all of you European Folks<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a 1 hour skew for a few weeks<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi taps mic... is this thing on...<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why is SL/OS mesh and importer so complex. grin. especially the Uvmapping si terrible. because the 102px limit<br />
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Huh?<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: And still the quality is possibl;e but with bigger size<br />
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: What 102px limit?<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: honestly<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: many game engines have much lower limits<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you should feel luck to have 1024px support<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: with 8 of them<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1024px texture size. well i big building you cannot uv-map from materials -> baked<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you could do 8096x1024<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tried to bake more the 1 , but nr.2 you get objects or image erros in blender<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: or 4096x4096<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: man my cat is being so annoying at the moment<br />
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: I do multiple materials (textures) in blebder all the time. Works grea.<br />
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: great<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, thats' big in fielsize. but viewer cannot handle 4096<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no im saying tile them<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not a singletexture<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, if you have done it the High Fidelity and possible SanSar way. SL/OS is terrible<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you can use 8 1024x1024 on a single mesh object<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: If you use all 8 materials, you can apply 8 1024 textures.<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: whaat<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: High Fideltiy was so bad<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: sure you can do whatever you want<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes marcvus. but bake 8 UV maps. i can do one. fail at bnr. 2<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but there are consequences<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: those limits are there for good reason<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You don't have to bke 8 UV maps.<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i know. filesize<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You can bake it all to one map.<br />
[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: It sounds mostly like you need to learn more about blender, honestly.<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. No the resolution is going so much down. a brick is not a brick anymore<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I would have to disagree<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, i know blender perfect. works smooth in high fidelity<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: even HighFideltiy has limits<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: on how many materials<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yup. but there you do not need to bake uv-maps<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No mat. limit<br />
[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: High Fidelity lets you be lazy. It lets you import unoptimized mesh. Here, everything is geared twoard trying to make you optimize.<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you think there is no limit<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you are sadly mistake<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try it<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i dare you<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try applying a huge texture<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it make work on 1 object<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but not 100s<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. no, i think it's betetr in resources. instead one big or more big uv-maps you can use more small textures.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: webgl will be way worse<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: you think this environment is bad<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: give webgl a shot<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why you want to apply a hugh texture ? that's the bad size of OS/.SL there you need to use large texture for good quality. in HiFi you can do it with much smaller ones<br />
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Many small download is not better than one largish one. It's more network resources, more client resources.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: most game engines what we do here in opensim<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: would be considered lunacy<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crazy town<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see yoou made it<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, bake 15 materials back to 1 uv map is a fail in quality<br />
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my script is acting strange here<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: baking 2 uv maps = error in blender. and not sure why it's doing that<br />
[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: turn voice off -- then back on<br />
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: conflicting with other grids maby<br />
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: mayby<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I can say without a doubt texturing in blender is difficult<br />
[11:36] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Textureing in blender is peanuts<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but I can get just as good a quality here as I can in Unity or High Fidelity<br />
[11:37] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: texturing in blender is easy<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aslong you not use baking<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it would be crazy to bake that much detail into 1 texture<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its your actions that dictate quality<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not the software<br />
[11:38] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my jetpack and helmet I baked in blender<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not in this case anyway<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: bake 8 textures<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: instead of 1<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you can back 100 textures in blender<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but OS of course wont support it<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: back=bake<br />
[11:38] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Nebadon can answer questions -- he is smat<br />
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: smart<br />
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: actually I been using 1 most the time, only complex buildings i need more than 1 texture<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: i read that with boston accent<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: whicked smat<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: small things are good to bake. buildings not. i wher ehoping to split it on more uv baked maps. but blender not uinderstand it after bake 1<br />
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats like a matter of Training Richardus<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: furniture etc. i would try to bake.<br />
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: this is a good place to visit<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: baking textures i an artform<br />
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am takiingLM<br />
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: you UV unwrap the sections you want to have a different texture on<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: however i would be surprised if any of use area actually hittin the limits of quality here<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i cant speak for everyone<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but i know im quite far from being a blender master<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and I very happy with quality<br />
[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: UV unwrap separate Materials<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well tell em what is wrong. because on the second object in the same project i did the same steps as with the forst one that did bake fine. but the seconde i get the object not found image not foudn error. and i have a black new image to bake on<br />
[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: use "P" to "separate" the materials as well for more materials than 8<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am still learning texturing in blender<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have the basics down, and I have experiment with baking ambient occlusion<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it can be complicated<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No , not use P. it's already seperated 1 3 parts with building<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have it set right<br />
[11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Neb -- can donny show a different display name instead of the one he is now using?<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason blender couldnt bake 1000 textures simultaneously<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: might take a few days<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but it can<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Selby no we do not have Display Name functionality<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would have to make a new account<br />
[11:42] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks -- Thats what i thougt<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I was playing with Blender Fire and Smoke few days ago<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its really awesome<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: cool.<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: voxels<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: The whole baking is getting anyway a bit pushed in the background next year i think. not say that the auto splitter is a good idea<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqnOKhx4NIc<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: you could easily use blender fire an smoke I think to generate a 16 cell fire animation<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: here<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i havent gotten that far yet<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: id like to try it<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: like the one in the fireplace behind me<br />
[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: selected the material when done with it, on your mesh, by going in "edit mode", press "A" to select all, then again to deselect or click until all faces are not selected, and make sure you click "face edit mode", then in the materials panel, click the material you want to change or UV unwrap, then click the select button below the materials page, to select all of this material type, make sure seams are already marked, and this assumes they are already marked, and then press "U" and "Unwrap" and adjust as needed, you can keep it with the model, or press "P" to separate it form the rest of the build to make room for more Materials.<br />
[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i have been starting to collect good blender tutorials<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and putting links here<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/opensim/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=9a43f4b234ad086ba3acfc5445fe3391<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone is interested<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or has some good stuff for beginners<br />
[11:46] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: feel free to use my text as a tutorial<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I can add them up<br />
[11:46] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br />
[11:47] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br />
[11:48] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have to go -- thanks Nebadon<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no problem, same time every week :)<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I have to say I learned a lot about blender and good modeling practices trying to port my content from opensim to Unity WebGL<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to become a master modeler get your content viewable in WebGL<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its to easy to be sloppy here<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: while those same good principles apply here, we very loosely enforce them<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if we even do at all<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Best practices for importing models to Blender so they can be converted to Collada format would also be helpful.<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya that takes a lot of experimenting i have found<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say there is a 1 fit solution<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: from my experience anyway<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the amount of variables is staggering<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll be working on another model in Rhino soon that I will want to bring in to OS.<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I found Rhino to be the most difficult<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: that i have had to deal with so far anyway<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Archicad is close<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: most of the Autocad apps are farly easy<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but not all formats are importable to blender<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: like .max<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but .3ds is awesome<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: my favorite to convert<br />
[11:52] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: got a link to WebGL?<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: well WebGL is the Web Browser version of OpenGL<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that we use<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Might help just knowing what file format to use when I export from Rhino.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its a low level programming language<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I'll try .3ds next time. I've been using .obj.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yes .3ds is safest bet from Rhino<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: .obj is good for Geometry as well<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but not for materials<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hmm. stupid. i do not need to bake everything to uv-map. only smaller parts. bit not think it make things faster uv-map is bigger then seperate textures still<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, they just both generate lots of triangles/faces and such I don't think about in Rhino.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya Rhino has no concept of triangles<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: until you export<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its all nurbs and stuff<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Then I find I have to start decimating the model.<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: well I have no issues with my builds, so I am going back home<br />
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: nice meeting ya<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the last rhino model i did was 3 million triangles<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: just have issues with scripts<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/Upplands_Vasby/archive/Upplands_Vasby_01_002.png<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I pulled in a detailed model of a Millennium Falcon and it was definitely up there. I forget how big it was.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that crazy train station was from Rhinop<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i eventually got it into OpenSim<br />
[11:55] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: llLoopSound and llPlaySound are reversed in scripting<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: was a pain<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: almost 3 million triangles<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, nice blimp<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats a freebie i give out<br />
11:55] Nebadon Izumi: from OSCC last year actually<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be fun to script that as a touring blimp.<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: appears i dont have a copy of it in this inventory<br />
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: (oops )<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea especially once border cross is better<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ubit<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: just so you are aware Ubit<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: DST starts in USA next week<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: and in Canada<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so there is skew for EU and USE for few weeks<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: USA* ah yea it does change for canada too? right?<br />
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: hmm ok<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: I will try to remind on Irc next week<br />
[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: No change in s arizona<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i was a few minutes late myself today<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya I miss Arizona<br />
[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: hehe<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: accept for when all the TV shows change time<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but the clock didnt<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that always annoyed me<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: yes very confusing<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Clocks in Canada change the first weekend in November, nebadon.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool same as here<br />
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: hmm think also here in eu<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there will be 2 or 3 meetings before EU changes<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, unless you are in one of the prairie provinces which don't change their clocks, afaicr<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: unless you guys changed again<br />
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: last sunday of oct ?<br />
[11:58] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: uh.. eu changed last weekend<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok<br />
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: :)<br />
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ahh yes last sunday was last lol<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: so overall the entire thing is shorter for EU?<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: man DST is a nightmare<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: longer if they already changed clocks.<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the need to dump summertime worldwide. or dump wintertime and keep the summer all year<br />
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: indeed :)<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya seriously<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, lets just dump winter. :)<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: as if timezones weren't complicated enough<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not looking forward to January in Sweden<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I know. 36 timezones around the world.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: be all cold and dark<br />
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah up north it gets even worse<br />
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: hmm forgot to fix my clocks lol<br />
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: no daylight for days!<br />
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: weeks..<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: that is basically when im going to sweden<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its like 4-5 hours of sun<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, for months if you are far enough north.<br />
[12:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: at least there's the aurora borealis to make up for it<br />
[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn looks around for something to stick a fork into.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I will try to remind on IRC next week<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there will still be confusion<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, out of pumpkins<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: atleast its just 1 week<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: 1 more week i should say<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: I remember last year when for 5 minutes i thought we sheduled OSCC on DST day<br />
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: there is a thing called.. UTC but well<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: then i realized i was looking at wrong year<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Grid time for meeting doesn't change so compare grid time to local time after the change and before the next meeting.<br />
[12:04] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: I'm getting confused already<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup, as long you remember<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am pretty sure that is the entire goal of DST<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: keep everyone confused as much as possible<br />
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: the OSCC grid is open<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone wants to poke around see how it holds up<br />
[12:06] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: hgurl?<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Same HG info as before?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: you can HG there by going to http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 Landing Zone 1<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: actually<br />
[12:06] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: 24/7 or just for now?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: let me give you the HG landing Zonw<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Landing Zone 1 may not be HG accessible<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its > http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 "HG Landing Zone"<br />
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I don't have the Landing zone. I have LM's for the four keynotes<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: Keynote is fine as well<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: the entire grid is not running quite yet<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but there is enough to poke around see how it feels<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe in few weeks after I am back from California<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: like 1/2 way through one of these meetings we can all jump to the Keynote<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: and run around like crazy people<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What code will be used for the OSCC regions?<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: not sure<br />
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think same as last yetar ?<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 0.8.2 release<br />
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: worst case i may bring it up to the level Avacon grid is running<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: which is a later 0.8.1-dev<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: right now its running code from last year<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: but on reloaded server<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: went from opensuse 11.4 to 13.1<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: last year we ran on 11.4<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was aincent<br />
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be worth trying to use latest 082 and see how it holds up.<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there was mummies!<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: If you were really being adventurous you could use the avnmerge branch. ;)<br />
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: no we wont do that directly<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: but we could have a place here on this grid so people could come try it<br />
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: actually just pushed a fix to master, taken from avnmerge :p<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[12:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the recent changes to master since 0.8.2 came out coming from avnmerge?<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Or are they other changes that need to be copied to avnmerge?<br />
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: no previus one i did it for master only<br />
[12:14] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: off to poke around been fun<br />
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: but avn had the issues fixed<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: k<br />
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: just a bit diferent code path in same cases<br />
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Just complicates things if code is being changed/fixed in master and those changes/fixes are handled differently in avnmerge or need to be copied to that avnmerge branch.<br />
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: pervius was the ode crash, if wearign hair with fireworks :)<br />
[12:15] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (2.71 m).<br />
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: previus..<br />
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: today was a services crash with wrong number of visualparameters<br />
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: the broken singu alpha is doing that<br />
[12:16] Kymmy Krasner: oo did osg crash<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: hey sorry i got a call<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get going anyway, i didnt even realize what time it is<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I've stopped using Sing until I can check whether it is usable once more.<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they need from me before i get going?<br />
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: the release seems ok<br />
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I couldn't remind you of the meeting as you were on IRC.<br />
[12:17] Marcus Llewellyn: I gotta skedaddle too. Video of the meeting will be available on Youtube and the INternet Archive this evening.<br />
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: alpha is a disaster here<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: oh yea i rebooted machien<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: i never went back to IRC duh<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me do that<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive been so busy<br />
[12:17] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: is Simcrossing workin on 0.8.3 ?<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I know. I was trying to work out how far back I have to go to get a stable Sing Alpha<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: only avinationmerge border cross works<br />
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: it is.. if u cross naked at least :p<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch name<br />
[12:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ok, thx<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: git checkout avinationmerge<br />
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have to go back at least one more than i already have, AFAICT<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: after you clone repo<br />
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: go back andrew ?<br />
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, to an earlier release of Sing Alpha.<br />
[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: border cross doesn't work?<br />
[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i hadn't noticed that yet :)<br />
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Sing Alpha I have still crashes too easily.<br />
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ahh ppl say last ok is 6610<br />
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: That might be a version that came out after they fixed the bug(s) that made it crash in less than 1.5 minutes.<br />
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: And that was without doing anything<br />
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: on lst alpha avatar wearables are broken<br />
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: to the point they could kill services ( mantis 7732)<br />
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have 6610 and I still don't think it is stable enough.<br />
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: anything around is stable ? :)<br />
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Usable?<br />
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: back to the point i need to change viewers acording to what i want to do lol<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys thanks for coming I really have to go<br />
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: well almost :)<br />
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: alpha was crashing if I just looked at it funny. Didn't have to do much.<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: shout on IRC if you need me<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: im back on<br />
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. I still need to switch to Firestorm to talk on voice. I can't use Sing.<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: Dont forget about OSCC!!<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: see ya<br />
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: see if my push<br />
[12:23] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: my ROBUST returns every 30 min a [wifi] defaul request...whats that ???<br />
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I'll head out too. Gotta run some errands.<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-27Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-272015-10-28T00:50:30Z<p>Fritigern: Using a wrapping <pre> tag, courtesy of justin. (now i will apply that to all the logs)</p>
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<div><!-- Dev-meeting to begin in some minutes.. Note to european visitors: due to the difference in summer-/wintertimetime the meeting starts at 7PM CET --><br />
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[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:04] Sheera Khan: and lots of "unable to fetch profile data still :-/<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: unable to fetch data will likely be normal for HG travelers at the moment<br />
[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: You're late. Again. We're docking your pay.<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: depends on what version of profiles the grid is running<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: unfrotunately osgrid still runs the original one<br />
[11:05] Sheera Khan: yes yes ...<br />
[11:05] Sheera Khan: I know ...<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Anyone who is interested in volunteering for OSCC this year please make sure to regsiter asap<br />
[11:06] Sheera Khan: maybe it could be a good idea to switch that with the mandatory update announced?<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2015/<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: that wont happen for a while<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so im not going to really get into that now<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: as I have no idea when that will happen<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: wont be before OSCC though<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: would be to chaotic<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it may not be as bad as you think either<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: if you are running 0.8.1-post fixes or newer you will be ok<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we will make sure everyone gets ample notice<br />
[11:08] Sheera Khan: sure, I'm on 0.8.2-DEV<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we wont just pull the trigger without a lot of notice<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: if you are on 0.8.1 dev fully updated you are probably ok already<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you know anyone who might be interested in OSCC volunteering or planning an event<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the second day this year is basically just all informal stuff<br />
[11:10] Sheera Khan: is there a special commit which has to be included to be save?<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt even have to be on the OSCC grid<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it hasnt really been determined yet Sheera, but I think right now its safe to say when it happens anyone running 0.8.1-post-fixes branch or newer will be ok<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's timed for people in the netherlands on bad day. 5 december is feast day for many<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: (not mne)<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: oh that sucks<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: my experieence tells me though that almost every day of the year somebody has something going on<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:11] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: well, mostly for people with kids..<br />
[11:11] Sheera Khan: well, Metro uses a relativly early 0.8.2-DEV that's from a time just about when 0.8.1-postfixes was released<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I have no doubt metro will be fine<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: as long as everyone is keeping up to date<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sint nicolas here in the country<br />
[11:12] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i know, i'm dutch too :)<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok well be sure to email the conference commitee and let them know<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we can possibly avoid that in the future<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: you might be able to send notes when you register too<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: so please mention it then as well<br />
[11:13] Sheera Khan: 12/6 is St Nikolaus in Germany<br />
[11:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it will all be streamed and recorded<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so you could in theory watch on tablet or phone<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and still kind of partake<br />
[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Has a atreaming service been chosen?<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: my time is very limited this year<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i cant really be on every team again<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect though that has not been fully decided and options are always welcome<br />
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: This year should be LOTS simpler to stream anyway.<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: maybe can even have multiple camera views going of same event<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: kind of as backup as well<br />
[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year I sat so long doing it that I had cramps in my legs. lol<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: have to but sooner you can register as a volunteer and get involved the better<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: time is short<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its always a long weekend<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: this year will only be 1 hardcore day<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: so should be a bit less stress<br />
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: And only one track, yeah?<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yes all the presentations will occur in the keynote area<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and we will have expo zones like previous years<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but there will hopefully be a lot more external events this year<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Why you cannot have a static camera. so you run it and not need todo much after that<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: so we can rely more on Hypergrid<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: basically that is what we do<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but sometimes there are slides<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and otehr things you need to focus on<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we have a nice camera hud<br />
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Because streamers also coordinate parcel audio, skype calls, etc. It's more complicated than it sounds.<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: that lets the person who is streaming pick various camera angles easily<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yea it is highly coordinated event<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of work, but its always fun too<br />
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: already seeing a lot of interest so that is good<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: bunch of volunteers have registerd, but we can certainly always use more<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so spread the word if you can<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: even if thats all you can do its great help<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: also I need some good builder types<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: who can clean up last years oars<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: the Landing Zone and Breakout zone<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: need to be cleaned up so I can share the oars<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i already have regions setup on OSCC grid to do it<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: we need to remove all the event stuff and make it more generric<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so basically its like a Landing Zone and Breakout Zone Template<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyway thats about it for OSCC. If you have questions just let me know<br />
[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Willl there be door prizes? ;)<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Their has been talk of another prize hunt type game<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so we also need people who have good content they made who are ok with giving them as prizes<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: of course needs to be stuff that people will find interesting and useful<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: There will probably be some physical rewards for people who can donate at certain levels<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I will be making another 3D printed design<br />
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Phrasing. ;)<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: oops... I'm back. I'm in the middle of setting up a new server.<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: The Hypergrid Safari folks are heavily involved this year<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and they have some plans to show off hypergrid<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you can probably speak with them to be part of a tour<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if you have something cool to show off<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything else they wanted to talk about?<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: are we into DST yet?<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: no next week<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ok taht should be fun<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: take note all of you European Folks<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a 1 hour skew for a few weeks<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi taps mic... is this thing on...<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why is SL/OS mesh and importer so complex. grin. especially the Uvmapping si terrible. because the 102px limit<br />
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Huh?<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: And still the quality is possibl;e but with bigger size<br />
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: What 102px limit?<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: honestly<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: many game engines have much lower limits<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you should feel luck to have 1024px support<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: with 8 of them<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1024px texture size. well i big building you cannot uv-map from materials -> baked<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you could do 8096x1024<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tried to bake more the 1 , but nr.2 you get objects or image erros in blender<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: or 4096x4096<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: man my cat is being so annoying at the moment<br />
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: I do multiple materials (textures) in blebder all the time. Works grea.<br />
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: great<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, thats' big in fielsize. but viewer cannot handle 4096<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no im saying tile them<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not a singletexture<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, if you have done it the High Fidelity and possible SanSar way. SL/OS is terrible<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you can use 8 1024x1024 on a single mesh object<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: If you use all 8 materials, you can apply 8 1024 textures.<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: whaat<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: High Fideltiy was so bad<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: sure you can do whatever you want<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes marcvus. but bake 8 UV maps. i can do one. fail at bnr. 2<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but there are consequences<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: those limits are there for good reason<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You don't have to bke 8 UV maps.<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i know. filesize<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You can bake it all to one map.<br />
[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: It sounds mostly like you need to learn more about blender, honestly.<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. No the resolution is going so much down. a brick is not a brick anymore<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I would have to disagree<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, i know blender perfect. works smooth in high fidelity<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: even HighFideltiy has limits<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: on how many materials<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yup. but there you do not need to bake uv-maps<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No mat. limit<br />
[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: High Fidelity lets you be lazy. It lets you import unoptimized mesh. Here, everything is geared twoard trying to make you optimize.<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you think there is no limit<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you are sadly mistake<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try it<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i dare you<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try applying a huge texture<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it make work on 1 object<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but not 100s<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. no, i think it's betetr in resources. instead one big or more big uv-maps you can use more small textures.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: webgl will be way worse<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: you think this environment is bad<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: give webgl a shot<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why you want to apply a hugh texture ? that's the bad size of OS/.SL there you need to use large texture for good quality. in HiFi you can do it with much smaller ones<br />
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Many small download is not better than one largish one. It's more network resources, more client resources.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: most game engines what we do here in opensim<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: would be considered lunacy<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crazy town<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see yoou made it<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, bake 15 materials back to 1 uv map is a fail in quality<br />
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my script is acting strange here<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: baking 2 uv maps = error in blender. and not sure why it's doing that<br />
[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: turn voice off -- then back on<br />
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: conflicting with other grids maby<br />
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: mayby<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I can say without a doubt texturing in blender is difficult<br />
[11:36] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Textureing in blender is peanuts<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but I can get just as good a quality here as I can in Unity or High Fidelity<br />
[11:37] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: texturing in blender is easy<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aslong you not use baking<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it would be crazy to bake that much detail into 1 texture<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its your actions that dictate quality<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not the software<br />
[11:38] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my jetpack and helmet I baked in blender<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not in this case anyway<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: bake 8 textures<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: instead of 1<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you can back 100 textures in blender<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but OS of course wont support it<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: back=bake<br />
[11:38] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Nebadon can answer questions -- he is smat<br />
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: smart<br />
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: actually I been using 1 most the time, only complex buildings i need more than 1 texture<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: i read that with boston accent<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: whicked smat<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: small things are good to bake. buildings not. i wher ehoping to split it on more uv baked maps. but blender not uinderstand it after bake 1<br />
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats like a matter of Training Richardus<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: furniture etc. i would try to bake.<br />
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: this is a good place to visit<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: baking textures i an artform<br />
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am takiingLM<br />
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: you UV unwrap the sections you want to have a different texture on<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: however i would be surprised if any of use area actually hittin the limits of quality here<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i cant speak for everyone<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but i know im quite far from being a blender master<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and I very happy with quality<br />
[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: UV unwrap separate Materials<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well tell em what is wrong. because on the second object in the same project i did the same steps as with the forst one that did bake fine. but the seconde i get the object not found image not foudn error. and i have a black new image to bake on<br />
[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: use "P" to "separate" the materials as well for more materials than 8<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am still learning texturing in blender<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have the basics down, and I have experiment with baking ambient occlusion<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it can be complicated<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No , not use P. it's already seperated 1 3 parts with building<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have it set right<br />
[11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Neb -- can donny show a different display name instead of the one he is now using?<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason blender couldnt bake 1000 textures simultaneously<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: might take a few days<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but it can<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Selby no we do not have Display Name functionality<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would have to make a new account<br />
[11:42] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks -- Thats what i thougt<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I was playing with Blender Fire and Smoke few days ago<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its really awesome<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: cool.<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: voxels<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: The whole baking is getting anyway a bit pushed in the background next year i think. not say that the auto splitter is a good idea<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqnOKhx4NIc<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: you could easily use blender fire an smoke I think to generate a 16 cell fire animation<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: here<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i havent gotten that far yet<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: id like to try it<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: like the one in the fireplace behind me<br />
[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: selected the material when done with it, on your mesh, by going in "edit mode", press "A" to select all, then again to deselect or click until all faces are not selected, and make sure you click "face edit mode", then in the materials panel, click the material you want to change or UV unwrap, then click the select button below the materials page, to select all of this material type, make sure seams are already marked, and this assumes they are already marked, and then press "U" and "Unwrap" and adjust as needed, you can keep it with the model, or press "P" to separate it form the rest of the build to make room for more Materials.<br />
[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i have been starting to collect good blender tutorials<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and putting links here<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/opensim/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=9a43f4b234ad086ba3acfc5445fe3391<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone is interested<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or has some good stuff for beginners<br />
[11:46] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: feel free to use my text as a tutorial<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I can add them up<br />
[11:46] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br />
[11:47] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br />
[11:48] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have to go -- thanks Nebadon<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no problem, same time every week :)<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I have to say I learned a lot about blender and good modeling practices trying to port my content from opensim to Unity WebGL<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to become a master modeler get your content viewable in WebGL<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its to easy to be sloppy here<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: while those same good principles apply here, we very loosely enforce them<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if we even do at all<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Best practices for importing models to Blender so they can be converted to Collada format would also be helpful.<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya that takes a lot of experimenting i have found<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say there is a 1 fit solution<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: from my experience anyway<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the amount of variables is staggering<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll be working on another model in Rhino soon that I will want to bring in to OS.<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I found Rhino to be the most difficult<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: that i have had to deal with so far anyway<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Archicad is close<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: most of the Autocad apps are farly easy<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but not all formats are importable to blender<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: like .max<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but .3ds is awesome<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: my favorite to convert<br />
[11:52] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: got a link to WebGL?<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: well WebGL is the Web Browser version of OpenGL<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that we use<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Might help just knowing what file format to use when I export from Rhino.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its a low level programming language<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I'll try .3ds next time. I've been using .obj.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yes .3ds is safest bet from Rhino<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: .obj is good for Geometry as well<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but not for materials<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hmm. stupid. i do not need to bake everything to uv-map. only smaller parts. bit not think it make things faster uv-map is bigger then seperate textures still<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, they just both generate lots of triangles/faces and such I don't think about in Rhino.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya Rhino has no concept of triangles<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: until you export<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its all nurbs and stuff<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Then I find I have to start decimating the model.<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: well I have no issues with my builds, so I am going back home<br />
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: nice meeting ya<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the last rhino model i did was 3 million triangles<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: just have issues with scripts<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/Upplands_Vasby/archive/Upplands_Vasby_01_002.png<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I pulled in a detailed model of a Millennium Falcon and it was definitely up there. I forget how big it was.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that crazy train station was from Rhinop<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i eventually got it into OpenSim<br />
[11:55] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: llLoopSound and llPlaySound are reversed in scripting<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: was a pain<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: almost 3 million triangles<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, nice blimp<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats a freebie i give out<br />
11:55] Nebadon Izumi: from OSCC last year actually<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be fun to script that as a touring blimp.<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: appears i dont have a copy of it in this inventory<br />
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: (oops )<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea especially once border cross is better<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ubit<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: just so you are aware Ubit<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: DST starts in USA next week<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: and in Canada<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so there is skew for EU and USE for few weeks<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: USA* ah yea it does change for canada too? right?<br />
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: hmm ok<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: I will try to remind on Irc next week<br />
[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: No change in s arizona<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i was a few minutes late myself today<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya I miss Arizona<br />
[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: hehe<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: accept for when all the TV shows change time<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but the clock didnt<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that always annoyed me<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: yes very confusing<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Clocks in Canada change the first weekend in November, nebadon.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool same as here<br />
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: hmm think also here in eu<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there will be 2 or 3 meetings before EU changes<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, unless you are in one of the prairie provinces which don't change their clocks, afaicr<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: unless you guys changed again<br />
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: last sunday of oct ?<br />
[11:58] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: uh.. eu changed last weekend<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok<br />
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: :)<br />
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ahh yes last sunday was last lol<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: so overall the entire thing is shorter for EU?<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: man DST is a nightmare<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: longer if they already changed clocks.<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the need to dump summertime worldwide. or dump wintertime and keep the summer all year<br />
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: indeed :)<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya seriously<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, lets just dump winter. :)<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: as if timezones weren't complicated enough<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not looking forward to January in Sweden<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I know. 36 timezones around the world.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: be all cold and dark<br />
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah up north it gets even worse<br />
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: hmm forgot to fix my clocks lol<br />
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: no daylight for days!<br />
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: weeks..<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: that is basically when im going to sweden<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its like 4-5 hours of sun<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, for months if you are far enough north.<br />
[12:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: at least there's the aurora borealis to make up for it<br />
[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn looks around for something to stick a fork into.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I will try to remind on IRC next week<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there will still be confusion<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, out of pumpkins<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: atleast its just 1 week<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: 1 more week i should say<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: I remember last year when for 5 minutes i thought we sheduled OSCC on DST day<br />
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: there is a thing called.. UTC but well<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: then i realized i was looking at wrong year<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Grid time for meeting doesn't change so compare grid time to local time after the change and before the next meeting.<br />
[12:04] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: I'm getting confused already<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup, as long you remember<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am pretty sure that is the entire goal of DST<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: keep everyone confused as much as possible<br />
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: the OSCC grid is open<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone wants to poke around see how it holds up<br />
[12:06] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: hgurl?<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Same HG info as before?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: you can HG there by going to http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 Landing Zone 1<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: actually<br />
[12:06] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: 24/7 or just for now?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: let me give you the HG landing Zonw<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Landing Zone 1 may not be HG accessible<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its > http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 "HG Landing Zone"<br />
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I don't have the Landing zone. I have LM's for the four keynotes<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: Keynote is fine as well<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: the entire grid is not running quite yet<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but there is enough to poke around see how it feels<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe in few weeks after I am back from California<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: like 1/2 way through one of these meetings we can all jump to the Keynote<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: and run around like crazy people<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What code will be used for the OSCC regions?<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: not sure<br />
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think same as last yetar ?<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 0.8.2 release<br />
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: worst case i may bring it up to the level Avacon grid is running<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: which is a later 0.8.1-dev<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: right now its running code from last year<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: but on reloaded server<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: went from opensuse 11.4 to 13.1<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: last year we ran on 11.4<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was aincent<br />
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be worth trying to use latest 082 and see how it holds up.<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there was mummies!<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: If you were really being adventurous you could use the avnmerge branch. ;)<br />
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: no we wont do that directly<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: but we could have a place here on this grid so people could come try it<br />
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: actually just pushed a fix to master, taken from avnmerge :p<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[12:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the recent changes to master since 0.8.2 came out coming from avnmerge?<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Or are they other changes that need to be copied to avnmerge?<br />
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: no previus one i did it for master only<br />
[12:14] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: off to poke around been fun<br />
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: but avn had the issues fixed<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: k<br />
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: just a bit diferent code path in same cases<br />
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Just complicates things if code is being changed/fixed in master and those changes/fixes are handled differently in avnmerge or need to be copied to that avnmerge branch.<br />
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: pervius was the ode crash, if wearign hair with fireworks :)<br />
[12:15] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (2.71 m).<br />
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: previus..<br />
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: today was a services crash with wrong number of visualparameters<br />
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: the broken singu alpha is doing that<br />
[12:16] Kymmy Krasner: oo did osg crash<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: hey sorry i got a call<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get going anyway, i didnt even realize what time it is<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I've stopped using Sing until I can check whether it is usable once more.<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they need from me before i get going?<br />
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: the release seems ok<br />
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I couldn't remind you of the meeting as you were on IRC.<br />
[12:17] Marcus Llewellyn: I gotta skedaddle too. Video of the meeting will be available on Youtube and the INternet Archive this evening.<br />
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: alpha is a disaster here<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: oh yea i rebooted machien<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: i never went back to IRC duh<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me do that<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive been so busy<br />
[12:17] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: is Simcrossing workin on 0.8.3 ?<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I know. I was trying to work out how far back I have to go to get a stable Sing Alpha<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: only avinationmerge border cross works<br />
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: it is.. if u cross naked at least :p<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch name<br />
[12:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ok, thx<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: git checkout avinationmerge<br />
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have to go back at least one more than i already have, AFAICT<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: after you clone repo<br />
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: go back andrew ?<br />
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, to an earlier release of Sing Alpha.<br />
[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: border cross doesn't work?<br />
[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i hadn't noticed that yet :)<br />
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Sing Alpha I have still crashes too easily.<br />
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ahh ppl say last ok is 6610<br />
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: That might be a version that came out after they fixed the bug(s) that made it crash in less than 1.5 minutes.<br />
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: And that was without doing anything<br />
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: on lst alpha avatar wearables are broken<br />
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: to the point they could kill services ( mantis 7732)<br />
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have 6610 and I still don't think it is stable enough.<br />
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: anything around is stable ? :)<br />
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Usable?<br />
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: back to the point i need to change viewers acording to what i want to do lol<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys thanks for coming I really have to go<br />
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: well almost :)<br />
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: alpha was crashing if I just looked at it funny. Didn't have to do much.<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: shout on IRC if you need me<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: im back on<br />
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. I still need to switch to Firestorm to talk on voice. I can't use Sing.<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: Dont forget about OSCC!!<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: see ya<br />
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: see if my push<br />
[12:23] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: my ROBUST returns every 30 min a [wifi] defaul request...whats that ???<br />
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I'll head out too. Gotta run some errands.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-27Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-272015-10-28T00:45:22Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Dev-meeting to begin in some minutes.. Note to european visitors: due to the difference in summer-/wintertimetime the meeting starts at 7PM CET --><br />
<br />[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
<br />[11:04] Sheera Khan: and lots of "unable to fetch profile data still :-/<br />
<br />[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: unable to fetch data will likely be normal for HG travelers at the moment<br />
<br />[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: You're late. Again. We're docking your pay.<br />
<br />[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: depends on what version of profiles the grid is running<br />
<br />[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: unfrotunately osgrid still runs the original one<br />
<br />[11:05] Sheera Khan: yes yes ...<br />
<br />[11:05] Sheera Khan: I know ...<br />
<br />[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Anyone who is interested in volunteering for OSCC this year please make sure to regsiter asap<br />
<br />[11:06] Sheera Khan: maybe it could be a good idea to switch that with the mandatory update announced?<br />
<br />[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2015/<br />
<br />[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: that wont happen for a while<br />
<br />[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so im not going to really get into that now<br />
<br />[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: as I have no idea when that will happen<br />
<br />[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: wont be before OSCC though<br />
<br />[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: would be to chaotic<br />
<br />[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it may not be as bad as you think either<br />
<br />[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: if you are running 0.8.1-post fixes or newer you will be ok<br />
<br />[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we will make sure everyone gets ample notice<br />
<br />[11:08] Sheera Khan: sure, I'm on 0.8.2-DEV<br />
<br />[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we wont just pull the trigger without a lot of notice<br />
<br />[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: if you are on 0.8.1 dev fully updated you are probably ok already<br />
<br />[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you know anyone who might be interested in OSCC volunteering or planning an event<br />
<br />[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the second day this year is basically just all informal stuff<br />
<br />[11:10] Sheera Khan: is there a special commit which has to be included to be save?<br />
<br />[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt even have to be on the OSCC grid<br />
<br />[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it hasnt really been determined yet Sheera, but I think right now its safe to say when it happens anyone running 0.8.1-post-fixes branch or newer will be ok<br />
<br />[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's timed for people in the netherlands on bad day. 5 december is feast day for many<br />
<br />[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: (not mne)<br />
<br />[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: oh that sucks<br />
<br />[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: my experieence tells me though that almost every day of the year somebody has something going on<br />
<br />[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
<br />[11:11] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: well, mostly for people with kids..<br />
<br />[11:11] Sheera Khan: well, Metro uses a relativly early 0.8.2-DEV that's from a time just about when 0.8.1-postfixes was released<br />
<br />[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I have no doubt metro will be fine<br />
<br />[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: as long as everyone is keeping up to date<br />
<br />[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sint nicolas here in the country<br />
<br />[11:12] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i know, i'm dutch too :)<br />
<br />[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok well be sure to email the conference commitee and let them know<br />
<br />[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we can possibly avoid that in the future<br />
<br />[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: you might be able to send notes when you register too<br />
<br />[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: so please mention it then as well<br />
<br />[11:13] Sheera Khan: 12/6 is St Nikolaus in Germany<br />
<br />[11:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
<br />[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it will all be streamed and recorded<br />
<br />[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so you could in theory watch on tablet or phone<br />
<br />[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and still kind of partake<br />
<br />[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Has a atreaming service been chosen?<br />
<br />[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure<br />
<br />[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: my time is very limited this year<br />
<br />[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i cant really be on every team again<br />
<br />[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
<br />[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect though that has not been fully decided and options are always welcome<br />
<br />[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: This year should be LOTS simpler to stream anyway.<br />
<br />[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: maybe can even have multiple camera views going of same event<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: kind of as backup as well<br />
<br />[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year I sat so long doing it that I had cramps in my legs. lol<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: have to but sooner you can register as a volunteer and get involved the better<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: time is short<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its always a long weekend<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: this year will only be 1 hardcore day<br />
<br />[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: so should be a bit less stress<br />
<br />[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: And only one track, yeah?<br />
<br />[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yes all the presentations will occur in the keynote area<br />
<br />[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and we will have expo zones like previous years<br />
<br />[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but there will hopefully be a lot more external events this year<br />
<br />[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Why you cannot have a static camera. so you run it and not need todo much after that<br />
<br />[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: so we can rely more on Hypergrid<br />
<br />[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus<br />
<br />[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: basically that is what we do<br />
<br />[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but sometimes there are slides<br />
<br />[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and otehr things you need to focus on<br />
<br />[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we have a nice camera hud<br />
<br />[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Because streamers also coordinate parcel audio, skype calls, etc. It's more complicated than it sounds.<br />
<br />[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: that lets the person who is streaming pick various camera angles easily<br />
<br />[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yea it is highly coordinated event<br />
<br />[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of work, but its always fun too<br />
<br />[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br />
<br />[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: already seeing a lot of interest so that is good<br />
<br />[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: bunch of volunteers have registerd, but we can certainly always use more<br />
<br />[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so spread the word if you can<br />
<br />[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: even if thats all you can do its great help<br />
<br />[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: also I need some good builder types<br />
<br />[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: who can clean up last years oars<br />
<br />[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: the Landing Zone and Breakout zone<br />
<br />[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: need to be cleaned up so I can share the oars<br />
<br />[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i already have regions setup on OSCC grid to do it<br />
<br />[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: we need to remove all the event stuff and make it more generric<br />
<br />[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so basically its like a Landing Zone and Breakout Zone Template<br />
<br />[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyway thats about it for OSCC. If you have questions just let me know<br />
<br />[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Willl there be door prizes? ;)<br />
<br />[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Their has been talk of another prize hunt type game<br />
<br />[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so we also need people who have good content they made who are ok with giving them as prizes<br />
<br />[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: of course needs to be stuff that people will find interesting and useful<br />
<br />[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: There will probably be some physical rewards for people who can donate at certain levels<br />
<br />[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I will be making another 3D printed design<br />
<br />[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Phrasing. ;)<br />
<br />[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: oops... I'm back. I'm in the middle of setting up a new server.<br />
<br />[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: The Hypergrid Safari folks are heavily involved this year<br />
<br />[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and they have some plans to show off hypergrid<br />
<br />[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good<br />
<br />[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you can probably speak with them to be part of a tour<br />
<br />[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if you have something cool to show off<br />
<br />[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything else they wanted to talk about?<br />
<br />[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: are we into DST yet?<br />
<br />[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: no next week<br />
<br />[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ok taht should be fun<br />
<br />[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: take note all of you European Folks<br />
<br />[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a 1 hour skew for a few weeks<br />
<br />[11:29] Nebadon Izumi taps mic... is this thing on...<br />
<br />[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
<br />[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why is SL/OS mesh and importer so complex. grin. especially the Uvmapping si terrible. because the 102px limit<br />
<br />[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Huh?<br />
<br />[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: And still the quality is possibl;e but with bigger size<br />
<br />[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: What 102px limit?<br />
<br />[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: honestly<br />
<br />[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: many game engines have much lower limits<br />
<br />[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you should feel luck to have 1024px support<br />
<br />[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: with 8 of them<br />
<br />[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1024px texture size. well i big building you cannot uv-map from materials -> baked<br />
<br />[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you could do 8096x1024<br />
<br />[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tried to bake more the 1 , but nr.2 you get objects or image erros in blender<br />
<br />[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: or 4096x4096<br />
<br />[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: man my cat is being so annoying at the moment<br />
<br />[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: I do multiple materials (textures) in blebder all the time. Works grea.<br />
<br />[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: great<br />
<br />[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, thats' big in fielsize. but viewer cannot handle 4096<br />
<br />[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no im saying tile them<br />
<br />[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not a singletexture<br />
<br />[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, if you have done it the High Fidelity and possible SanSar way. SL/OS is terrible<br />
<br />[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you can use 8 1024x1024 on a single mesh object<br />
<br />[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: If you use all 8 materials, you can apply 8 1024 textures.<br />
<br />[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: whaat<br />
<br />[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: High Fideltiy was so bad<br />
<br />[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: sure you can do whatever you want<br />
<br />[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes marcvus. but bake 8 UV maps. i can do one. fail at bnr. 2<br />
<br />[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but there are consequences<br />
<br />[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: those limits are there for good reason<br />
<br />[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You don't have to bke 8 UV maps.<br />
<br />[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i know. filesize<br />
<br />[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You can bake it all to one map.<br />
<br />[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: It sounds mostly like you need to learn more about blender, honestly.<br />
<br />[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. No the resolution is going so much down. a brick is not a brick anymore<br />
<br />[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I would have to disagree<br />
<br />[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, i know blender perfect. works smooth in high fidelity<br />
<br />[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: even HighFideltiy has limits<br />
<br />[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: on how many materials<br />
<br />[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yup. but there you do not need to bake uv-maps<br />
<br />[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No mat. limit<br />
<br />[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: High Fidelity lets you be lazy. It lets you import unoptimized mesh. Here, everything is geared twoard trying to make you optimize.<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you think there is no limit<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you are sadly mistake<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try it<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i dare you<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try applying a huge texture<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it make work on 1 object<br />
<br />[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but not 100s<br />
<br />[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. no, i think it's betetr in resources. instead one big or more big uv-maps you can use more small textures.<br />
<br />[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: webgl will be way worse<br />
<br />[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: you think this environment is bad<br />
<br />[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: give webgl a shot<br />
<br />[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why you want to apply a hugh texture ? that's the bad size of OS/.SL there you need to use large texture for good quality. in HiFi you can do it with much smaller ones<br />
<br />[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Many small download is not better than one largish one. It's more network resources, more client resources.<br />
<br />[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: most game engines what we do here in opensim<br />
<br />[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: would be considered lunacy<br />
<br />[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crazy town<br />
<br />[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
<br />[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see yoou made it<br />
<br />[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, bake 15 materials back to 1 uv map is a fail in quality<br />
<br />[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my script is acting strange here<br />
<br />[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: baking 2 uv maps = error in blender. and not sure why it's doing that<br />
<br />[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: turn voice off -- then back on<br />
<br />[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: conflicting with other grids maby<br />
<br />[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: mayby<br />
<br />[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I can say without a doubt texturing in blender is difficult<br />
<br />[11:36] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br />
<br />[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Textureing in blender is peanuts<br />
<br />[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but I can get just as good a quality here as I can in Unity or High Fidelity<br />
<br />[11:37] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: texturing in blender is easy<br />
<br />[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aslong you not use baking<br />
<br />[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it would be crazy to bake that much detail into 1 texture<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its your actions that dictate quality<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not the software<br />
<br />[11:38] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my jetpack and helmet I baked in blender<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not in this case anyway<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: bake 8 textures<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: instead of 1<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you can back 100 textures in blender<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but OS of course wont support it<br />
<br />[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: back=bake<br />
<br />[11:38] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Nebadon can answer questions -- he is smat<br />
<br />[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: smart<br />
<br />[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: actually I been using 1 most the time, only complex buildings i need more than 1 texture<br />
<br />[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: i read that with boston accent<br />
<br />[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: whicked smat<br />
<br />[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: small things are good to bake. buildings not. i wher ehoping to split it on more uv baked maps. but blender not uinderstand it after bake 1<br />
<br />[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol<br />
<br />[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats like a matter of Training Richardus<br />
<br />[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: furniture etc. i would try to bake.<br />
<br />[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: this is a good place to visit<br />
<br />[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: baking textures i an artform<br />
<br />[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am takiingLM<br />
<br />[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: you UV unwrap the sections you want to have a different texture on<br />
<br />[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: however i would be surprised if any of use area actually hittin the limits of quality here<br />
<br />[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i cant speak for everyone<br />
<br />[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but i know im quite far from being a blender master<br />
<br />[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and I very happy with quality<br />
<br />[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: UV unwrap separate Materials<br />
<br />[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well tell em what is wrong. because on the second object in the same project i did the same steps as with the forst one that did bake fine. but the seconde i get the object not found image not foudn error. and i have a black new image to bake on<br />
<br />[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: use "P" to "separate" the materials as well for more materials than 8<br />
<br />[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am still learning texturing in blender<br />
<br />[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have the basics down, and I have experiment with baking ambient occlusion<br />
<br />[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it can be complicated<br />
<br />[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No , not use P. it's already seperated 1 3 parts with building<br />
<br />[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have it set right<br />
<br />[11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Neb -- can donny show a different display name instead of the one he is now using?<br />
<br />[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason blender couldnt bake 1000 textures simultaneously<br />
<br />[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: might take a few days<br />
<br />[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but it can<br />
<br />[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Selby no we do not have Display Name functionality<br />
<br />[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would have to make a new account<br />
<br />[11:42] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks -- Thats what i thougt<br />
<br />[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I was playing with Blender Fire and Smoke few days ago<br />
<br />[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its really awesome<br />
<br />[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: cool.<br />
<br />[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: voxels<br />
<br />[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: The whole baking is getting anyway a bit pushed in the background next year i think. not say that the auto splitter is a good idea<br />
<br />[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqnOKhx4NIc<br />
<br />[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: you could easily use blender fire an smoke I think to generate a 16 cell fire animation<br />
<br />[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: here<br />
<br />[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i havent gotten that far yet<br />
<br />[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: id like to try it<br />
<br />[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: like the one in the fireplace behind me<br />
<br />[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: selected the material when done with it, on your mesh, by going in "edit mode", press "A" to select all, then again to deselect or click until all faces are not selected, and make sure you click "face edit mode", then in the materials panel, click the material you want to change or UV unwrap, then click the select button below the materials page, to select all of this material type, make sure seams are already marked, and this assumes they are already marked, and then press "U" and "Unwrap" and adjust as needed, you can keep it with the model, or press "P" to separate it form the rest of the build to make room for more Materials.<br />
<br />[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br />
<br />[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i have been starting to collect good blender tutorials<br />
<br />[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and putting links here<br />
<br />[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/opensim/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=9a43f4b234ad086ba3acfc5445fe3391<br />
<br />[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone is interested<br />
<br />[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or has some good stuff for beginners<br />
<br />[11:46] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: feel free to use my text as a tutorial<br />
<br />[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I can add them up<br />
<br />[11:46] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br />
<br />[11:47] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br />
<br />[11:48] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have to go -- thanks Nebadon<br />
<br />[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no problem, same time every week :)<br />
<br />[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I have to say I learned a lot about blender and good modeling practices trying to port my content from opensim to Unity WebGL<br />
<br />[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to become a master modeler get your content viewable in WebGL<br />
<br />[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its to easy to be sloppy here<br />
<br />[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: while those same good principles apply here, we very loosely enforce them<br />
<br />[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if we even do at all<br />
<br />[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Best practices for importing models to Blender so they can be converted to Collada format would also be helpful.<br />
<br />[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya that takes a lot of experimenting i have found<br />
<br />[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say there is a 1 fit solution<br />
<br />[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: from my experience anyway<br />
<br />[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br />[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the amount of variables is staggering<br />
<br />[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll be working on another model in Rhino soon that I will want to bring in to OS.<br />
<br />[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I found Rhino to be the most difficult<br />
<br />[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: that i have had to deal with so far anyway<br />
<br />[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Archicad is close<br />
<br />[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: most of the Autocad apps are farly easy<br />
<br />[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but not all formats are importable to blender<br />
<br />[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: like .max<br />
<br />[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but .3ds is awesome<br />
<br />[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: my favorite to convert<br />
<br />[11:52] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: got a link to WebGL?<br />
<br />[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: well WebGL is the Web Browser version of OpenGL<br />
<br />[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that we use<br />
<br />[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Might help just knowing what file format to use when I export from Rhino.<br />
<br />[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its a low level programming language<br />
<br />[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I'll try .3ds next time. I've been using .obj.<br />
<br />[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yes .3ds is safest bet from Rhino<br />
<br />[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: .obj is good for Geometry as well<br />
<br />[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but not for materials<br />
<br />[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hmm. stupid. i do not need to bake everything to uv-map. only smaller parts. bit not think it make things faster uv-map is bigger then seperate textures still<br />
<br />[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, they just both generate lots of triangles/faces and such I don't think about in Rhino.<br />
<br />[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya Rhino has no concept of triangles<br />
<br />[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: until you export<br />
<br />[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br />[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its all nurbs and stuff<br />
<br />[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Then I find I have to start decimating the model.<br />
<br />[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
<br />[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: well I have no issues with my builds, so I am going back home<br />
<br />[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: nice meeting ya<br />
<br />[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the last rhino model i did was 3 million triangles<br />
<br />[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br />[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: just have issues with scripts<br />
<br />[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/Upplands_Vasby/archive/Upplands_Vasby_01_002.png<br />
<br />[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I pulled in a detailed model of a Millennium Falcon and it was definitely up there. I forget how big it was.<br />
<br />[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that crazy train station was from Rhinop<br />
<br />[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i eventually got it into OpenSim<br />
<br />[11:55] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: llLoopSound and llPlaySound are reversed in scripting<br />
<br />[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: was a pain<br />
<br />[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: almost 3 million triangles<br />
<br />[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, nice blimp<br />
<br />[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats a freebie i give out<br />
<br />11:55] Nebadon Izumi: from OSCC last year actually<br />
<br />[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be fun to script that as a touring blimp.<br />
<br />[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: appears i dont have a copy of it in this inventory<br />
<br />[11:56] Ubit Umarov: (oops )<br />
<br />[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea especially once border cross is better<br />
<br />[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ubit<br />
<br />[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: just so you are aware Ubit<br />
<br />[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: DST starts in USA next week<br />
<br />[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: and in Canada<br />
<br />[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so there is skew for EU and USE for few weeks<br />
<br />[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: USA* ah yea it does change for canada too? right?<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: hmm ok<br />
<br />[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: I will try to remind on Irc next week<br />
<br />[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: No change in s arizona<br />
<br />[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i was a few minutes late myself today<br />
<br />[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya I miss Arizona<br />
<br />[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: hehe<br />
<br />[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: accept for when all the TV shows change time<br />
<br />[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but the clock didnt<br />
<br />[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that always annoyed me<br />
<br />[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
<br />[11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: yes very confusing<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Clocks in Canada change the first weekend in November, nebadon.<br />
<br />[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool same as here<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: hmm think also here in eu<br />
<br />[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there will be 2 or 3 meetings before EU changes<br />
<br />[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, unless you are in one of the prairie provinces which don't change their clocks, afaicr<br />
<br />[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: unless you guys changed again<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: last sunday of oct ?<br />
<br />[11:58] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: uh.. eu changed last weekend<br />
<br />[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok<br />
<br />[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: :)<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ahh yes last sunday was last lol<br />
<br />[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: so overall the entire thing is shorter for EU?<br />
<br />[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: man DST is a nightmare<br />
<br />[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: longer if they already changed clocks.<br />
<br />[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the need to dump summertime worldwide. or dump wintertime and keep the summer all year<br />
<br />[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: indeed :)<br />
<br />[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya seriously<br />
<br />[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, lets just dump winter. :)<br />
<br />[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
<br />[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: as if timezones weren't complicated enough<br />
<br />[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not looking forward to January in Sweden<br />
<br />[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I know. 36 timezones around the world.<br />
<br />[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: be all cold and dark<br />
<br />[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah up north it gets even worse<br />
<br />[12:00] Ubit Umarov: hmm forgot to fix my clocks lol<br />
<br />[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: no daylight for days!<br />
<br />[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: weeks..<br />
<br />[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
<br />[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: that is basically when im going to sweden<br />
<br />[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
<br />[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its like 4-5 hours of sun<br />
<br />[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, for months if you are far enough north.<br />
<br />[12:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: at least there's the aurora borealis to make up for it<br />
<br />[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn looks around for something to stick a fork into.<br />
<br />[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
<br />[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I will try to remind on IRC next week<br />
<br />[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there will still be confusion<br />
<br />[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, out of pumpkins<br />
<br />[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: atleast its just 1 week<br />
<br />[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: 1 more week i should say<br />
<br />[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: I remember last year when for 5 minutes i thought we sheduled OSCC on DST day<br />
<br />[12:03] Ubit Umarov: there is a thing called.. UTC but well<br />
<br />[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: then i realized i was looking at wrong year<br />
<br />[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Grid time for meeting doesn't change so compare grid time to local time after the change and before the next meeting.<br />
<br />[12:04] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: I'm getting confused already<br />
<br />[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
<br />[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup, as long you remember<br />
<br />[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am pretty sure that is the entire goal of DST<br />
<br />[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: keep everyone confused as much as possible<br />
<br />[12:04] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
<br />[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: the OSCC grid is open<br />
<br />[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone wants to poke around see how it holds up<br />
<br />[12:06] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: hgurl?<br />
<br />[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Same HG info as before?<br />
<br />[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: you can HG there by going to http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 Landing Zone 1<br />
<br />[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: actually<br />
<br />[12:06] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: 24/7 or just for now?<br />
<br />[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: let me give you the HG landing Zonw<br />
<br />[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Landing Zone 1 may not be HG accessible<br />
<br />[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its > http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 "HG Landing Zone"<br />
<br />[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I don't have the Landing zone. I have LM's for the four keynotes<br />
<br />[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: Keynote is fine as well<br />
<br />[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: the entire grid is not running quite yet<br />
<br />[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but there is enough to poke around see how it feels<br />
<br />[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe in few weeks after I am back from California<br />
<br />[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: like 1/2 way through one of these meetings we can all jump to the Keynote<br />
<br />[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: and run around like crazy people<br />
<br />[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What code will be used for the OSCC regions?<br />
<br />[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: not sure<br />
<br />[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think same as last yetar ?<br />
<br />[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 0.8.2 release<br />
<br />[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha<br />
<br />[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br />[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: worst case i may bring it up to the level Avacon grid is running<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: which is a later 0.8.1-dev<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: right now its running code from last year<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: but on reloaded server<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: went from opensuse 11.4 to 13.1<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: last year we ran on 11.4<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was aincent<br />
<br />[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be worth trying to use latest 082 and see how it holds up.<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there was mummies!<br />
<br />[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
<br />[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: If you were really being adventurous you could use the avnmerge branch. ;)<br />
<br />[12:12] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
<br />[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: no we wont do that directly<br />
<br />[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: but we could have a place here on this grid so people could come try it<br />
<br />[12:12] Ubit Umarov: actually just pushed a fix to master, taken from avnmerge :p<br />
<br />[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
<br />[12:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
<br />[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the recent changes to master since 0.8.2 came out coming from avnmerge?<br />
<br />[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Or are they other changes that need to be copied to avnmerge?<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: no previus one i did it for master only<br />
<br />[12:14] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: off to poke around been fun<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: but avn had the issues fixed<br />
<br />[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: k<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: just a bit diferent code path in same cases<br />
<br />[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Just complicates things if code is being changed/fixed in master and those changes/fixes are handled differently in avnmerge or need to be copied to that avnmerge branch.<br />
<br />[12:15] Ubit Umarov: pervius was the ode crash, if wearign hair with fireworks :)<br />
<br />[12:15] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (2.71 m).<br />
<br />[12:15] Ubit Umarov: previus..<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: today was a services crash with wrong number of visualparameters<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: the broken singu alpha is doing that<br />
<br />[12:16] Kymmy Krasner: oo did osg crash<br />
<br />[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: hey sorry i got a call<br />
<br />[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get going anyway, i didnt even realize what time it is<br />
<br />[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
<br />[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I've stopped using Sing until I can check whether it is usable once more.<br />
<br />[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they need from me before i get going?<br />
<br />[12:17] Ubit Umarov: the release seems ok<br />
<br />[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I couldn't remind you of the meeting as you were on IRC.<br />
<br />[12:17] Marcus Llewellyn: I gotta skedaddle too. Video of the meeting will be available on Youtube and the INternet Archive this evening.<br />
<br />[12:17] Ubit Umarov: alpha is a disaster here<br />
<br />[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: oh yea i rebooted machien<br />
<br />[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: i never went back to IRC duh<br />
<br />[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me do that<br />
<br />[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive been so busy<br />
<br />[12:17] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: is Simcrossing workin on 0.8.3 ?<br />
<br />[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
<br />[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I know. I was trying to work out how far back I have to go to get a stable Sing Alpha<br />
<br />[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: only avinationmerge border cross works<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: it is.. if u cross naked at least :p<br />
<br />[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch name<br />
<br />[12:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ok, thx<br />
<br />[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: git checkout avinationmerge<br />
<br />[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have to go back at least one more than i already have, AFAICT<br />
<br />[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: after you clone repo<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: go back andrew ?<br />
<br />[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, to an earlier release of Sing Alpha.<br />
<br />[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: border cross doesn't work?<br />
<br />[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i hadn't noticed that yet :)<br />
<br />[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Sing Alpha I have still crashes too easily.<br />
<br />[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ahh ppl say last ok is 6610<br />
<br />[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: That might be a version that came out after they fixed the bug(s) that made it crash in less than 1.5 minutes.<br />
<br />[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: And that was without doing anything<br />
<br />[12:20] Ubit Umarov: on lst alpha avatar wearables are broken<br />
<br />[12:21] Ubit Umarov: to the point they could kill services ( mantis 7732)<br />
<br />[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have 6610 and I still don't think it is stable enough.<br />
<br />[12:21] Ubit Umarov: anything around is stable ? :)<br />
<br />[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br />[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Usable?<br />
<br />[12:22] Ubit Umarov: back to the point i need to change viewers acording to what i want to do lol<br />
<br />[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys thanks for coming I really have to go<br />
<br />[12:22] Ubit Umarov: well almost :)<br />
<br />[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: alpha was crashing if I just looked at it funny. Didn't have to do much.<br />
<br />[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: shout on IRC if you need me<br />
<br />[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: im back on<br />
<br />[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. I still need to switch to Firestorm to talk on voice. I can't use Sing.<br />
<br />[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: Dont forget about OSCC!!<br />
<br />[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: see ya<br />
<br />[12:23] Ubit Umarov: see if my push<br />
<br />[12:23] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: my ROBUST returns every 30 min a [wifi] defaul request...whats that ???<br />
<br />[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I'll head out too. Gotta run some errands.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2015-10-28T00:43:55Z<p>Fritigern: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project. These take place on Wright Plaza on OSGrid.<br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
Meetings on Wright Plaza serve two purposes. One is the meeting described below. The second, and equally important is as a stress test so we can all see how our sim reliability is functioning at each meeting.<br />
<br />
Additionally, others are welcome to use the conference room on Wright Plaza for any other meetings they wish. This conference room is setup for meetings and the more use of it, the more testing and development is enhanced.<br />
<br />
The two html-on-a-prim one each side of the main screen are both controlled from the chat channel and can be used to present arbitrary web pages to enhance a meeting.<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focussed, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 1100 PST, 1400 EST, 1800 UTC, 1900 CET on Wright Plaza at OSGrid (osgrid.org).'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<!-- <br />
Don't forget to add the new chat log to [[Category:Office Hour Logs]] !<br />
Also, wrap the log in <pre></pre> tags, so that you don't have to add so many <br /> tags.<br />
--><br />
<!-- I'd do if I knew how to... and the br-tags are added to make long lines more readable <pre> would make you scroll sideways very often --><br />
<!-- Have a look at previous chat logs. I have added all of them to that category, and wrapped it in <pre> tags. --><br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:FSAssets_ServiceTalk:FSAssets Service2015-10-26T05:58:09Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div>How suitable is this asset service for standalones? I mean I did read that it's ''intended'' for larger grids, but is it possible to use this in standalone mode?<br />
<br />
Also, in what kind of format are the assets stored? I am specifically thinking of textures and scripts and the implications that it can have if scripts are stored in plaintext, and textures stored in one of the many standard image formats..<br />
<br />
--[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] ([[User talk:Fritigern|talk]]) 05:52, 26 October 2015 (UTC)</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:FSAssets_ServiceTalk:FSAssets Service2015-10-26T05:52:33Z<p>Fritigern: Created page with "How suitable is this asset service for standalones? --~~~~"</p>
<hr />
<div>How suitable is this asset service for standalones? --[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] ([[User talk:Fritigern|talk]]) 05:52, 26 October 2015 (UTC)</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.8.2.0_Release0.8.2.0 Release2015-10-26T05:50:29Z<p>Fritigern: /* General */ External to internal link</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Languages|0.8.2.0_Release}}<br />
=Release Notes=<br />
== General ==<br />
Welcome to OpenSimulator 0.8.2.0, an open-source multi-user 3D virtual environment and metaverse server platform. <br />
<br />
As ever, OpenSimulator is a highly complex system. Various usage scenarios (standalone, grid, hypergrid, etc.) in combination with different dependencies (e.g. different versions of mono on Linux/Mac) can sometimes produce unexpected or unstable behaviour.<br />
<br />
If you are upgrading from a previous verson of OpenSimulator, then we strongly recommend that you start off with the default configuration files and port over any changes you made to your older version of OpenSimulator.<br />
<br />
As this is a wiki page, please feel free to update it with more information about migration or other issues as and when these come to light.<br />
<br />
You can download this release of OpenSimulator from [[Download]]<br />
<br />
== Known issues ==<br />
* Loading scripts from the library section of inventory does not work properly.<br />
* The non-default Warp3D maptile generator currently leaks memory very badly. We recommend that you only use this once at the beginning of each simulator session.<br />
* For other bugs please see the OpenSimulator Mantis bug tracker.<br />
<br />
== Requirements ==<br />
OpenSimulator requires:<br />
<br />
* .NET Framework 4 when running under Windows.<br />
* At least Mono 2.8 when running under Mono (Linux or Mac). However, we recommend using at least Mono 2.10 as Mono 2.8.x has been reported as less stable in some situations when running OpenSimulator. Mono 3 has also been reported as working well with OpenSimulator.<br />
<br />
== Backwards Compatibility Notices ==<br />
<br />
=== Database ===<br />
<br />
* Schema changes in asset store, xasset store, fsasset store, region store, AgentPrefs (new table). Migrations included.<br />
* INVENTORY FOLDERS: in order to make OpenSim conform to what the viewers expect, we changed the numbers used for inventory folders. Here are the right numbers:<br />
** Root folder: 8<br />
** My Suitcase folder: 100<br />
** User-created folder: -1<br />
Although things work as they are, we encourage everyone to consider changing the inventory folders in your DBs, as some of the newer viewers may start to malfunction if they get unexpected folder numbers. This is the migration logic, in pseudo-code:<br />
If folder type == 8 and parent folder != zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to -1<br />
If folder type == 9 and parent folder == zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to 8<br />
If folder type == 9 and parent folder != zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to -1<br />
If folder name == "My Suitcase"<br />
set folder type to 100<br />
You should issue corresponding SQL queries in your DB.<br />
* GROUPS: group owner powers were updated sometime within the last 6 months. If you don't see group owners being flagged as owners, you may need to fix the DB:<br />
update os_groups_roles set Powers ='351843720888318' where Powers='349644697632766'<br />
<br />
== Changes ==<br />
<br />
=== General Robust Server ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== General Simulator Server ===<br />
<br />
* All physics simulations are now properly encapsulated as region modules instead of being handled by a special plugin mechanism. Anyone wanting to do another physics implementation can now just do it with a region module.<br />
<br />
=== Archives ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Avatars ===<br />
<br />
* Fix detach event not being fired until the next time the object is attached. This allows scripts such as AOs to remove animations when detached. The pause added does not affect other avatars or the scene in general and only pauses the avatar performing the detach for an extra 2 milliseconds.<br />
<br />
=== Classifieds ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed not being charged to create classifieds on money enabled regions<br />
<br />
=== Configuration ===<br />
<br />
* [EntityTransfer]: MaxOutgoingTransferVersion eliminated.<br />
* [LL-Functions]: new variable UseLlCastRayV3 = false by default, as well as several new variables related to llCastRay<br />
* [LandManagement]: new variables LimitParcelLayerUpdateDistance = true and ParcelLayerViewDistance = 128. This governs the amount parcel layer info that gets sent to the viewer upon editing terrain. <br />
* New section: [AccessControl]<br />
* New section: [Statistics]<br />
* New section: [OSSL]. This includes a new ini file (config-include/osslEnable.ini) which contains all the settings for OSSL functions.<br />
<br />
=== Friends ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Groups ===<br />
<br />
* Show last online status of group members from the PresenceService in group profiles<br />
<br />
=== Hypergrid ===<br />
<br />
* For HG users, set the last name to include the port of their home world<br />
<br />
=== Instant Messaging ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Inventory ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed several performance issues regarding initial inventory download by changing the IInventory API. In some cases this has resulted in 10x performance improvement, and much lower CPU spikes during login.<br />
<br />
=== Map ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Mesh/Sculpt ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Monitoring ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== NPC ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Objects ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed occurrence of exception upon rezzing objects that had been corrupted due to a bug introduced in a prior release. Transfer of those bad assets are now being stopped. Instantiation of bad assets now should also work, instead of producing an exception, but the bad assets themselves aren't being fixed in the DB.<br />
<br />
=== Physics ===<br />
* ODE Now supports variable-sized regions<br />
<br />
=== Profiles ===<br />
<br />
* Bug fix: Change UserProfiles so that the parcel name is used for a ProfilePick and not the parcel owners name. This change also fixes a bug where if the avatar enters and does not move, creating or editing a ProfilePick would set the parcelId as an empty UUID.<br />
<br />
=== Region/Estates/Parcels ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Region Cross/Teleport ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Scripting ===<br />
<br />
* Changes to make the script times shown in the "Top Scripts" window more accurate:<br />
** Measure script execution time precisely, using a sub-millisecond timer. This is needed because some scripts execute very often, but only run for a very short amount of time in each invocation. Previously such scripts were shown as using 0 time.<br />
** Use a 30-seconds sliding window for measuring script execution. Previously the window was 30 minutes, and even that didn't work correctly.<br />
** Ignore the time the script spends sleeping. Many LSL functions have a sleep-delay at the end.<br />
** Include the XEngine overhead in the timings. Previously it was excluded.<br />
** For more information, see [[Scripts_Performance]]<br />
<br />
* When the user stops a script, have it remain stopped even after a region restart. Previously, after a region restart the script would start Running again.<br />
<br />
* New llCastRay implementation. It sets up its own mesh cache and uses libopenmetaverse mesher instead of Meshmerizer. It works fully with sculpts and meshes, eliminates the 40-50% overhead on first encounter with a shape, sculpt or mesh, increases the time save when using cached geometries to about 65% on a high-end server and 75% on an ordinary laptop in some performance tests. To enable it, set UseLlCastRayV3 = true.<br />
<br />
=== Services ===<br />
<br />
* New Asset Service: FSAssetService. (FS stands for File System) This alternative asset service stores assets as regular files and only the metadata in the DB. It does deduplication of assets. This is currently the asset service used in OSGrid since April 2015, and it has been working well. It is not the default for OpenSim... yet. For more information please see [[FSAssets_Service]]<br />
<br />
=== Sound ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Stats ===<br />
<br />
* The simulator now reports the actual physics' frames per second (fps) that is used in OpenSimulator. In normal operation, this number is close to 11. Previously OpenSim reported a multiple of the actual physics fps, so that viewers would get a number similar to that used in Second Life. We no longer do that. We now report the correct physics fps.<br />
<br />
* New metrics reported:<br />
** Logging in Users: number of users attempting to login<br />
** GeoPrims: count of all geometric (prim) objects in the scene<br />
** Mesh: count of all mesh objects in the scene<br />
** XEngine Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by XEngine's SmartThreadPool<br />
** Util Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by Util's SmartThreadPool<br />
** System Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by the Microsoft SDK<br />
** ProcMem: Physical memory in use by the opensim instance in kB. This includes shared (e.g. system libraries) and private data.<br />
<br />
=== Terrain ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Voice ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Tests ===<br />
<br />
* New test dll for Robust server and services (Robust.Tests.dll). These tests start a robust server in the background listening in localhost:8002 and test the service connectors, and the services themselves.<br />
<br />
== Acknowledgements ==<br />
<br />
Many, many thanks to all the developers, testers and community members who contributed to this release and who help out with OpenSimulator generally. Your hard work makes this all possible.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Release Notes]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.8.2.0_Release0.8.2.0 Release2015-10-26T05:50:00Z<p>Fritigern: /* Scripting */ Changed external link which pointed at this wiki to an internal link</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Languages|0.8.2.0_Release}}<br />
=Release Notes=<br />
== General ==<br />
Welcome to OpenSimulator 0.8.2.0, an open-source multi-user 3D virtual environment and metaverse server platform. <br />
<br />
As ever, OpenSimulator is a highly complex system. Various usage scenarios (standalone, grid, hypergrid, etc.) in combination with different dependencies (e.g. different versions of mono on Linux/Mac) can sometimes produce unexpected or unstable behaviour.<br />
<br />
If you are upgrading from a previous verson of OpenSimulator, then we strongly recommend that you start off with the default configuration files and port over any changes you made to your older version of OpenSimulator.<br />
<br />
As this is a wiki page, please feel free to update it with more information about migration or other issues as and when these come to light.<br />
<br />
You can download this release of OpenSimulator from http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Download<br />
<br />
== Known issues ==<br />
* Loading scripts from the library section of inventory does not work properly.<br />
* The non-default Warp3D maptile generator currently leaks memory very badly. We recommend that you only use this once at the beginning of each simulator session.<br />
* For other bugs please see the OpenSimulator Mantis bug tracker.<br />
<br />
== Requirements ==<br />
OpenSimulator requires:<br />
<br />
* .NET Framework 4 when running under Windows.<br />
* At least Mono 2.8 when running under Mono (Linux or Mac). However, we recommend using at least Mono 2.10 as Mono 2.8.x has been reported as less stable in some situations when running OpenSimulator. Mono 3 has also been reported as working well with OpenSimulator.<br />
<br />
== Backwards Compatibility Notices ==<br />
<br />
=== Database ===<br />
<br />
* Schema changes in asset store, xasset store, fsasset store, region store, AgentPrefs (new table). Migrations included.<br />
* INVENTORY FOLDERS: in order to make OpenSim conform to what the viewers expect, we changed the numbers used for inventory folders. Here are the right numbers:<br />
** Root folder: 8<br />
** My Suitcase folder: 100<br />
** User-created folder: -1<br />
Although things work as they are, we encourage everyone to consider changing the inventory folders in your DBs, as some of the newer viewers may start to malfunction if they get unexpected folder numbers. This is the migration logic, in pseudo-code:<br />
If folder type == 8 and parent folder != zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to -1<br />
If folder type == 9 and parent folder == zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to 8<br />
If folder type == 9 and parent folder != zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to -1<br />
If folder name == "My Suitcase"<br />
set folder type to 100<br />
You should issue corresponding SQL queries in your DB.<br />
* GROUPS: group owner powers were updated sometime within the last 6 months. If you don't see group owners being flagged as owners, you may need to fix the DB:<br />
update os_groups_roles set Powers ='351843720888318' where Powers='349644697632766'<br />
<br />
== Changes ==<br />
<br />
=== General Robust Server ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== General Simulator Server ===<br />
<br />
* All physics simulations are now properly encapsulated as region modules instead of being handled by a special plugin mechanism. Anyone wanting to do another physics implementation can now just do it with a region module.<br />
<br />
=== Archives ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Avatars ===<br />
<br />
* Fix detach event not being fired until the next time the object is attached. This allows scripts such as AOs to remove animations when detached. The pause added does not affect other avatars or the scene in general and only pauses the avatar performing the detach for an extra 2 milliseconds.<br />
<br />
=== Classifieds ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed not being charged to create classifieds on money enabled regions<br />
<br />
=== Configuration ===<br />
<br />
* [EntityTransfer]: MaxOutgoingTransferVersion eliminated.<br />
* [LL-Functions]: new variable UseLlCastRayV3 = false by default, as well as several new variables related to llCastRay<br />
* [LandManagement]: new variables LimitParcelLayerUpdateDistance = true and ParcelLayerViewDistance = 128. This governs the amount parcel layer info that gets sent to the viewer upon editing terrain. <br />
* New section: [AccessControl]<br />
* New section: [Statistics]<br />
* New section: [OSSL]. This includes a new ini file (config-include/osslEnable.ini) which contains all the settings for OSSL functions.<br />
<br />
=== Friends ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Groups ===<br />
<br />
* Show last online status of group members from the PresenceService in group profiles<br />
<br />
=== Hypergrid ===<br />
<br />
* For HG users, set the last name to include the port of their home world<br />
<br />
=== Instant Messaging ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Inventory ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed several performance issues regarding initial inventory download by changing the IInventory API. In some cases this has resulted in 10x performance improvement, and much lower CPU spikes during login.<br />
<br />
=== Map ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Mesh/Sculpt ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Monitoring ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== NPC ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Objects ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed occurrence of exception upon rezzing objects that had been corrupted due to a bug introduced in a prior release. Transfer of those bad assets are now being stopped. Instantiation of bad assets now should also work, instead of producing an exception, but the bad assets themselves aren't being fixed in the DB.<br />
<br />
=== Physics ===<br />
* ODE Now supports variable-sized regions<br />
<br />
=== Profiles ===<br />
<br />
* Bug fix: Change UserProfiles so that the parcel name is used for a ProfilePick and not the parcel owners name. This change also fixes a bug where if the avatar enters and does not move, creating or editing a ProfilePick would set the parcelId as an empty UUID.<br />
<br />
=== Region/Estates/Parcels ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Region Cross/Teleport ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Scripting ===<br />
<br />
* Changes to make the script times shown in the "Top Scripts" window more accurate:<br />
** Measure script execution time precisely, using a sub-millisecond timer. This is needed because some scripts execute very often, but only run for a very short amount of time in each invocation. Previously such scripts were shown as using 0 time.<br />
** Use a 30-seconds sliding window for measuring script execution. Previously the window was 30 minutes, and even that didn't work correctly.<br />
** Ignore the time the script spends sleeping. Many LSL functions have a sleep-delay at the end.<br />
** Include the XEngine overhead in the timings. Previously it was excluded.<br />
** For more information, see [[Scripts_Performance]]<br />
<br />
* When the user stops a script, have it remain stopped even after a region restart. Previously, after a region restart the script would start Running again.<br />
<br />
* New llCastRay implementation. It sets up its own mesh cache and uses libopenmetaverse mesher instead of Meshmerizer. It works fully with sculpts and meshes, eliminates the 40-50% overhead on first encounter with a shape, sculpt or mesh, increases the time save when using cached geometries to about 65% on a high-end server and 75% on an ordinary laptop in some performance tests. To enable it, set UseLlCastRayV3 = true.<br />
<br />
=== Services ===<br />
<br />
* New Asset Service: FSAssetService. (FS stands for File System) This alternative asset service stores assets as regular files and only the metadata in the DB. It does deduplication of assets. This is currently the asset service used in OSGrid since April 2015, and it has been working well. It is not the default for OpenSim... yet. For more information please see [[FSAssets_Service]]<br />
<br />
=== Sound ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Stats ===<br />
<br />
* The simulator now reports the actual physics' frames per second (fps) that is used in OpenSimulator. In normal operation, this number is close to 11. Previously OpenSim reported a multiple of the actual physics fps, so that viewers would get a number similar to that used in Second Life. We no longer do that. We now report the correct physics fps.<br />
<br />
* New metrics reported:<br />
** Logging in Users: number of users attempting to login<br />
** GeoPrims: count of all geometric (prim) objects in the scene<br />
** Mesh: count of all mesh objects in the scene<br />
** XEngine Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by XEngine's SmartThreadPool<br />
** Util Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by Util's SmartThreadPool<br />
** System Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by the Microsoft SDK<br />
** ProcMem: Physical memory in use by the opensim instance in kB. This includes shared (e.g. system libraries) and private data.<br />
<br />
=== Terrain ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Voice ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Tests ===<br />
<br />
* New test dll for Robust server and services (Robust.Tests.dll). These tests start a robust server in the background listening in localhost:8002 and test the service connectors, and the services themselves.<br />
<br />
== Acknowledgements ==<br />
<br />
Many, many thanks to all the developers, testers and community members who contributed to this release and who help out with OpenSimulator generally. Your hard work makes this all possible.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Release Notes]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.8.2.0_Release0.8.2.0 Release2015-10-26T05:49:00Z<p>Fritigern: /* Services */ Changed external link which pointed at this wiki to an internal link</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Languages|0.8.2.0_Release}}<br />
=Release Notes=<br />
== General ==<br />
Welcome to OpenSimulator 0.8.2.0, an open-source multi-user 3D virtual environment and metaverse server platform. <br />
<br />
As ever, OpenSimulator is a highly complex system. Various usage scenarios (standalone, grid, hypergrid, etc.) in combination with different dependencies (e.g. different versions of mono on Linux/Mac) can sometimes produce unexpected or unstable behaviour.<br />
<br />
If you are upgrading from a previous verson of OpenSimulator, then we strongly recommend that you start off with the default configuration files and port over any changes you made to your older version of OpenSimulator.<br />
<br />
As this is a wiki page, please feel free to update it with more information about migration or other issues as and when these come to light.<br />
<br />
You can download this release of OpenSimulator from http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Download<br />
<br />
== Known issues ==<br />
* Loading scripts from the library section of inventory does not work properly.<br />
* The non-default Warp3D maptile generator currently leaks memory very badly. We recommend that you only use this once at the beginning of each simulator session.<br />
* For other bugs please see the OpenSimulator Mantis bug tracker.<br />
<br />
== Requirements ==<br />
OpenSimulator requires:<br />
<br />
* .NET Framework 4 when running under Windows.<br />
* At least Mono 2.8 when running under Mono (Linux or Mac). However, we recommend using at least Mono 2.10 as Mono 2.8.x has been reported as less stable in some situations when running OpenSimulator. Mono 3 has also been reported as working well with OpenSimulator.<br />
<br />
== Backwards Compatibility Notices ==<br />
<br />
=== Database ===<br />
<br />
* Schema changes in asset store, xasset store, fsasset store, region store, AgentPrefs (new table). Migrations included.<br />
* INVENTORY FOLDERS: in order to make OpenSim conform to what the viewers expect, we changed the numbers used for inventory folders. Here are the right numbers:<br />
** Root folder: 8<br />
** My Suitcase folder: 100<br />
** User-created folder: -1<br />
Although things work as they are, we encourage everyone to consider changing the inventory folders in your DBs, as some of the newer viewers may start to malfunction if they get unexpected folder numbers. This is the migration logic, in pseudo-code:<br />
If folder type == 8 and parent folder != zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to -1<br />
If folder type == 9 and parent folder == zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to 8<br />
If folder type == 9 and parent folder != zeroUUID<br />
set folder type to -1<br />
If folder name == "My Suitcase"<br />
set folder type to 100<br />
You should issue corresponding SQL queries in your DB.<br />
* GROUPS: group owner powers were updated sometime within the last 6 months. If you don't see group owners being flagged as owners, you may need to fix the DB:<br />
update os_groups_roles set Powers ='351843720888318' where Powers='349644697632766'<br />
<br />
== Changes ==<br />
<br />
=== General Robust Server ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== General Simulator Server ===<br />
<br />
* All physics simulations are now properly encapsulated as region modules instead of being handled by a special plugin mechanism. Anyone wanting to do another physics implementation can now just do it with a region module.<br />
<br />
=== Archives ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Avatars ===<br />
<br />
* Fix detach event not being fired until the next time the object is attached. This allows scripts such as AOs to remove animations when detached. The pause added does not affect other avatars or the scene in general and only pauses the avatar performing the detach for an extra 2 milliseconds.<br />
<br />
=== Classifieds ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed not being charged to create classifieds on money enabled regions<br />
<br />
=== Configuration ===<br />
<br />
* [EntityTransfer]: MaxOutgoingTransferVersion eliminated.<br />
* [LL-Functions]: new variable UseLlCastRayV3 = false by default, as well as several new variables related to llCastRay<br />
* [LandManagement]: new variables LimitParcelLayerUpdateDistance = true and ParcelLayerViewDistance = 128. This governs the amount parcel layer info that gets sent to the viewer upon editing terrain. <br />
* New section: [AccessControl]<br />
* New section: [Statistics]<br />
* New section: [OSSL]. This includes a new ini file (config-include/osslEnable.ini) which contains all the settings for OSSL functions.<br />
<br />
=== Friends ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Groups ===<br />
<br />
* Show last online status of group members from the PresenceService in group profiles<br />
<br />
=== Hypergrid ===<br />
<br />
* For HG users, set the last name to include the port of their home world<br />
<br />
=== Instant Messaging ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Inventory ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed several performance issues regarding initial inventory download by changing the IInventory API. In some cases this has resulted in 10x performance improvement, and much lower CPU spikes during login.<br />
<br />
=== Map ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Mesh/Sculpt ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Monitoring ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== NPC ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Objects ===<br />
<br />
* Fixed occurrence of exception upon rezzing objects that had been corrupted due to a bug introduced in a prior release. Transfer of those bad assets are now being stopped. Instantiation of bad assets now should also work, instead of producing an exception, but the bad assets themselves aren't being fixed in the DB.<br />
<br />
=== Physics ===<br />
* ODE Now supports variable-sized regions<br />
<br />
=== Profiles ===<br />
<br />
* Bug fix: Change UserProfiles so that the parcel name is used for a ProfilePick and not the parcel owners name. This change also fixes a bug where if the avatar enters and does not move, creating or editing a ProfilePick would set the parcelId as an empty UUID.<br />
<br />
=== Region/Estates/Parcels ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Region Cross/Teleport ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Scripting ===<br />
<br />
* Changes to make the script times shown in the "Top Scripts" window more accurate:<br />
** Measure script execution time precisely, using a sub-millisecond timer. This is needed because some scripts execute very often, but only run for a very short amount of time in each invocation. Previously such scripts were shown as using 0 time.<br />
** Use a 30-seconds sliding window for measuring script execution. Previously the window was 30 minutes, and even that didn't work correctly.<br />
** Ignore the time the script spends sleeping. Many LSL functions have a sleep-delay at the end.<br />
** Include the XEngine overhead in the timings. Previously it was excluded.<br />
** For more information, see http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Scripts_Performance<br />
<br />
* When the user stops a script, have it remain stopped even after a region restart. Previously, after a region restart the script would start Running again.<br />
<br />
* New llCastRay implementation. It sets up its own mesh cache and uses libopenmetaverse mesher instead of Meshmerizer. It works fully with sculpts and meshes, eliminates the 40-50% overhead on first encounter with a shape, sculpt or mesh, increases the time save when using cached geometries to about 65% on a high-end server and 75% on an ordinary laptop in some performance tests. To enable it, set UseLlCastRayV3 = true.<br />
<br />
=== Services ===<br />
<br />
* New Asset Service: FSAssetService. (FS stands for File System) This alternative asset service stores assets as regular files and only the metadata in the DB. It does deduplication of assets. This is currently the asset service used in OSGrid since April 2015, and it has been working well. It is not the default for OpenSim... yet. For more information please see [[FSAssets_Service]]<br />
<br />
=== Sound ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Stats ===<br />
<br />
* The simulator now reports the actual physics' frames per second (fps) that is used in OpenSimulator. In normal operation, this number is close to 11. Previously OpenSim reported a multiple of the actual physics fps, so that viewers would get a number similar to that used in Second Life. We no longer do that. We now report the correct physics fps.<br />
<br />
* New metrics reported:<br />
** Logging in Users: number of users attempting to login<br />
** GeoPrims: count of all geometric (prim) objects in the scene<br />
** Mesh: count of all mesh objects in the scene<br />
** XEngine Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by XEngine's SmartThreadPool<br />
** Util Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by Util's SmartThreadPool<br />
** System Thread Count: Number of threads in use as reported by the Microsoft SDK<br />
** ProcMem: Physical memory in use by the opensim instance in kB. This includes shared (e.g. system libraries) and private data.<br />
<br />
=== Terrain ===<br />
<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Voice ===<br />
* No significant changes in this release.<br />
<br />
=== Tests ===<br />
<br />
* New test dll for Robust server and services (Robust.Tests.dll). These tests start a robust server in the background listening in localhost:8002 and test the service connectors, and the services themselves.<br />
<br />
== Acknowledgements ==<br />
<br />
Many, many thanks to all the developers, testers and community members who contributed to this release and who help out with OpenSimulator generally. Your hard work makes this all possible.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Release Notes]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2015-10-26T00:03:20Z<p>Fritigern: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project. These take place on Wright Plaza on OSGrid.<br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
Meetings on Wright Plaza serve two purposes. One is the meeting described below. The second, and equally important is as a stress test so we can all see how our sim reliability is functioning at each meeting.<br />
<br />
Additionally, others are welcome to use the conference room on Wright Plaza for any other meetings they wish. This conference room is setup for meetings and the more use of it, the more testing and development is enhanced.<br />
<br />
The two html-on-a-prim one each side of the main screen are both controlled from the chat channel and can be used to present arbitrary web pages to enhance a meeting.<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focussed, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 1100 PST, 1400 EST, 1800 UTC, 1900 CET on Wright Plaza at OSGrid (osgrid.org).'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<!-- <br />
Don't forget to add the new chat log to [[Category:Office Hour Logs]] !<br />
Also, wrap the log in <pre></pre> tags, so that you don't have to add so many <br /> tags.<br />
--><br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2015-10-26T00:02:07Z<p>Fritigern: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project. These take place on Wright Plaza on OSGrid.<br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
Meetings on Wright Plaza serve two purposes. One is the meeting described below. The second, and equally important is as a stress test so we can all see how our sim reliability is functioning at each meeting.<br />
<br />
Additionally, others are welcome to use the conference room on Wright Plaza for any other meetings they wish. This conference room is setup for meetings and the more use of it, the more testing and development is enhanced.<br />
<br />
The two html-on-a-prim one each side of the main screen are both controlled from the chat channel and can be used to present arbitrary web pages to enhance a meeting.<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focussed, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 1100 PST, 1400 EST, 1800 UTC, 1900 CET on Wright Plaza at OSGrid (osgrid.org).'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<!-- <br />
Don't forget to add the new chat log to [[Category:Office Hour Logs]] !<br />
Also, wrap the log in <pre></pre> tags, so that you don't have to add so many <br> tags.<br />
--><br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_LogsChat Logs2015-10-26T00:01:56Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
On this page, you can find all the chat logs which were recorded during the weekly [[Office Hours]].<br />
<br />
{{multicol}}<br />
=== 2014 ===<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-08]]<br />
<br />
=== 2014 ===<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-12-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-12-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-12-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-23]]<br />
* There was no organized meeting on 2013-04-16<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-08]]<br />
<br />
=== 2012 ===<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-03]]<br />
{{multicol-break}}<br />
<br />
=== 2011 ===<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-03-22]]<br />
<br />
=== 2010 ===<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-12-28]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-12-21]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-12-14]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-12-07]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-11-30]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-11-23]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-11-16]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-11-09]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-11-02]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-10-26]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-10-19]] (currently not available)<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-10-12]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-10-05]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-09-28]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-09-21]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-09-14]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-09-07]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-08-31]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-08-24]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-08-17]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-08-10]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-08-03]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-07-28]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-07-27]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-07-20]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-07-13]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-07-06]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-06-29]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-06-22]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-06-15]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-06-08]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-06-02]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-05-25]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-05-18]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-05-11]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-05-04]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-04-27]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-04-20]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-04-13]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-04-06]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-03-30]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-03-23]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-03-17]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-03-09]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-02-16]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-02-09]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-01-26]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2010-01-12]]<br />
<br />
=== 2009 ===<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-12-29]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-12-15]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-12-08]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-12-01]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-11-24]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-11-17]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-11-10]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-11-03]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-10-13]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-09-15]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-08-25]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-07-07]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-30]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-23]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-09]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-02]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-26]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-19]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-12]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-05]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-04-28]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-04-21]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-04-14]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-04-07]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-31]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-24]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-17]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-10]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-03]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-02-24]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-02-10]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-02-03]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-01-27]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-01-20]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-01-13]] (currently not available)<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2009-01-06]]<br />
<br />
=== 2008 ===<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-12-30]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-12-23]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-12-16]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-12-02]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-11-25]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-11-18]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-11-11]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-10-28]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-10-21]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-10-07]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-09-23]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-09-16]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-09-09]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-08-26]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-08-19]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-08-12]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-08-05]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-07-22]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-07-21]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-07-15]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-07-08]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-07-01]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-06-17]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-06-10]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-04-15]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-04-08]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-03-11]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-03-04]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-02-17]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-02-12]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-02-05]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-01-29]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-01-09]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2008-01-06]]<br />
<br />
=== 2007 ===<br />
* Chat log from the meeting on 2007-12-18 (missing)<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-12-11]]<br />
* Chat log from the meeting on 2007-12-4 (meeting cancelled)<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-11-27]]<br />
* Chat log from the meeting on 2007-11-20 (missing)<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-11-13]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-11-06]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-30]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]<br />
<br />
=== Q&A Meetings ===<br />
*[[Chat log from the Q&A meeting on 2009-04-04]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the Q&A meeting on 2009-03-07]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the Q&A meeting on 2009-02-28]]<br />
*[[Chat log from the Q&A meeting on 2009-02-21]]<br />
<br />
{{multicol-end}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Scripting_DocumentationScripting Documentation2015-10-25T23:53:42Z<p>Fritigern: /* See Also */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br />
== About OpenSimulator scripting ==<br />
An important ingredient in Second Life is scripting. It is the engine that drives it all. In SL [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal LSL (Linden Scripting Language)] is the language you have to use. This language has its limitations, and is executed very slowly. But nevertheless it works and it gets the job done. <br /><br />
<br />
OpenSimulator today supports LSL (with extra OSSL and various other functions) and C# scripts. But with limitations:<br />
* Not all commands and events have been implemented. See '''Scripting System Status''' below for details on what commands work and which don't. Patches to implement missing functionality are very welcome.<br />
* The OpenSimulator script engine compiles the LSL code down to .Net code that is JIT'ed to CPU native code (in layman's terms, when a script is run on OpenSim, it gets translated to something that the CPU directly can understand.). In effect this means that a LSL script in OpenSimulator should run faster than in Second Life. <br />
* Stability and security: see [[Script Sandbox|Script Execution Sandbox]].<br />
<br />
== Configuring scripting ==<br />
There are a number of parameters that can be tweaked for scripting, such as those which enable OSSL commands or increase the limits on certain script facilities (e.g. listeners).<br />
<br />
For standalone and small grid use, the default scripting settings should be fine. See [[Configuring Scripting]] for information on configuring these parameters.<br />
<br />
== How to use scripts in OpenSimulator ==<br />
If you have never written a script in LSL before, then please have a look at the [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Tutorial LSL wiki] to learn the scripting basics.<br />
If you do have (some) experience with writing or editing LSL scripts, then the procedure is identical to the procedure on SL.<br />
<!-- We've shown the reader where and how to learn how to create/edit scripts. We therefore do not need to give them our own tutorial. --><br />
<!--The current procedure to get a script working in OpenSimulator is:<br />
* Create a new script in inventory. (Inventory -> Create -> New Script)<br />
* Write whatever script you want there, or copy the script contents of another script in the pre-existing OpenSimulator library. Check [[LSL Status]] for what commands that are supported.<br />
* Drag the script over to the contents of an object.<br />
* If there is an error in the script when saving or when dropped into an object, an error alert is displayed for a short time. Click on the alert to display the Debug Window and the script error. <br />
* To deactivate a script, edit the script and uncheck 'Running'. This also stops error alerts when saving scripts.<br />
* Deleting a script from the object will not always stop its effects. Examples of this are hovertexts, or particles. The reason why they stay even after the script is deleted, is because hovertext and particles are prim properties, which can only be edited through a script. To get rid of the effects, you must first deactivate them in your script, before deleting the script. If you deleted your script before you've cleared the effects, you will have to make a script that will deactivate or clear them, and use them in that prim.<br />
--><br />
<br />
Known problems:<br />
* Error messages about scripting errors are often cryptic, and tend to be long.<br />
* List memory optimization hacks like this ... myList = llListReplaceList((myList = []) + myList, ["myString"], 2, 2); ... will fail.<br />
* Linux/Mac users will need to upgrade the default mono to "mono-complete" in order to have a fully functional scripting engine in OpenSimulator. See [http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5007 the bug tracker] for details.<br />
<br />
== Scripting System Status ==<br />
Status Tables / Charts related to LSL and OSSL functions, constants and related material.<br /><br />
<br />
[[LSL Status|LSL/OSSL Status Overview]]<br /><br />
'''LSL'''<br />
* [[LSL Status/Functions|LSL-Functions Status]]<br />
* [[LSL Status/Constants|LSL-Constants Status]]<br />
* [[LSL Status/Events|LSL-Events Status]]<br />
* [[LSL Status/Types|LSL-Types Status]]<br />
'''OSSL'''<br />
* [[OSSL Implemented|OSSL Functions with examples]] <br />
* [[OSSL Constants]]<br />
<br />
== Additional Resources for Scripting (LSL) ==<br />
There have been many questions regarding scripts and tools for scripting lately. Presented here are a variety of Links to Resources which will help most people with Scripting LSL.<br />
<br />
=== OpenSimulator Specific Materials: ===<br />
<br />
* [[:Category:OSSL Functions | OSSL Functions with examples]] - A good place to start reading about OSSL scripting.<br />
* [[OSSL Script Library]] A library of scripts which utilize OSSL functions.<br />
<br />
=== Suggested Links for LSL wikis: ===<br />
<br />
* [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal wiki.secondlife.com]<br />
<br />
* [http://www.lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=HomePage lslwiki.net] ''(Historical reference wiki)''<br />
<br />
Note the Tutorials, Examples & Script Libraries<br />
<br />
== Off-World Local LSL Editing Tools & Syntax Highlighters ==<br />
Note: most do not support osFunctions<br />
<br />
'''LSL EDITOR''' ''(no osFunctions)'' [[Image:Windows_logo.png|24px|frameless|Windows version available]]<br />
:* [http://sourceforge.net/projects/lsleditor/ LSLeditor SourceForge]<br />
:* [http://www.lsleditor.org/ Original Author's website with his latest LSLeditor version]<br />
:Now an Open Source project. New release is February 2012 (Ver.2.44.2). A valuable tool and easy install.<br />
----<br />
'''LSL Plus''' ''(no osFunctions)'' [[Image:Windows_logo.png|24px|frameless|Windows version available]][[Image:Macosx_logo.png|24px|MacOSX version available]][[Image:Tux.png|24px|frameless|Linux version available]]<br />
:* [http://lslplus.sourceforge.net/ LSLplus]<br />
:Open source [http://www.eclipse.org/ Eclipse] plugin. Regular updates. Not quite as quick to get installed as LSLEditor, but very good tool.<br />
----<br />
'''Notepad++''' ''(osFunctions supported with add-on UDF)'' [[Image:Windows_logo.png|24px|frameless|Windows version available]]<br />
:* [http://notepad-plus-plus.org/ Notepad Plus Plus]<br />
:* [https://github.com/WhiteStar-Magic/NotePad---userdef/archives/master LSL and OS functions UDF]<br />
:Windows only Editor with enhanced capabilities & supports most languages. Very powerful & feature rich.<br />
----<br />
'''KATE''' ''(no osFunctions)'' [[Image:Windows_logo.png|24px|frameless|Windows version available]][[Image:Macosx_logo.png|24px|MacOSX version available]][[Image:Tux.png|24px|frameless|Linux version available]]<br />
:* [http://kate-editor.org/ Kate Homepage]<br />
:Free and open source text editor, supporting lots of scriptinmg and programming languages out of the box. This includes LSL.<br />
----<br />
'''Sublime Text 2''' ''(os*/wl*/mod* functions supported with the bundle below)'' [[Image:Windows_logo.png|24px|frameless|Windows version available]][[Image:Macosx_logo.png|24px|MacOSX version available]][[Image:Tux.png|24px|frameless|Linux version available]]<br />
:* [http://www.sublimetext.com Sublime Text 2].<br />
:* [http://github.com/Makopo/sublime-text-lsl LSL/OSSL Bundle for Sublime Text 2 (from Makopoppo's github repository)]<br />
:Completions & syntax coloring of LSL/OSSL functions/events/constants & in-world editor look-and-feel theme.<br />
:To use OSSL feature, use ".ossl" for your script file extension.<br />
:It is currently compatible with LL v3.4.1 and OpenSimulator v0.7.4+ (master r/21068).<br />
----<br />
More editors are listed at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Alternate_Editors<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Syntax Highlighting ===<br />
<br />
* [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ GeSHi project home page]<br />
* [https://sourceforge.net/projects/geshi/files/geshi/GeSHi%201.0.8.10/ Most current version of GeSHI for download]<br />
* [https://github.com/WhiteStar-Magic/Scripting-Syntax-Highlights GeSHi LSL support file] includes osFunctions & updated<br />
* Extra Reference at MediaWiki: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi GeSHi Syntax Highlighter for WIKI and Forums]<br />
<br />
=== Miscellaneous: ===<br />
<br />
* [http://scriptastic.greenbush.us A simple web based Scratch like environment for creating LSL code and teaching kids to make LSL scripts ]<br />
<br />
* [http://www.hilarymason.com/blog/secondlife/autoscript-creates-lsl-scripts-without-code/ AutoScript, Simple & Quick Code generator for simple things (ONLINE)]<br />
<br />
* [http://code.google.com/p/lslsnippets/ lslsnippets ]<br />
<br />
* [http://www.vtoreality.com/2006/free-offsite-storage-for-lsl-scripts-up-to-250k/186/ Free offsite storage for LSL scripts up to 250k ]<br />
<br />
* [http://www.freeslscripts.gendersquare.org/index.php Free SL Scripts (library)]<br />
<br />
* [http://s4sl.blogspot.com/ Scratch for SecondLife (Script Code generator with Nice Interface - UPDATED JUL.09.2009)]<br />
<br />
* [http://redwood.colorado.edu/jkb/fs2lsl/ FS2LSL Flash Scratch to LSL (a feature-rich Scratch-like script code generator)]<br />
<br />
* [http://www.peregrinesalon.com/2009/01/05/major-upgrade-to-animated-gif-to-animated-sl-texture-conversion-tool-v04/ Second Life Animated Texture Creator v0.4 - brought to you by Peregrine Salon]<br />
<br />
* [[Presentation Board]] - Simple Presentation Board that slides through inventory textures...<br />
<br />
* [http://www.free-lsl-scripts.com/cgi/freescripts.plx More then 1000 open source/public domain scripts (library)]<br />
<br />
* [http://greenbushlabs.com/scriptastic Block Based Script Building Tool (like Scratch) making LSL Scripting Simple Enough Even for Kids]<br />
<br />
== Additional Resources for Scripting (OSSL) ==<br />
There have been many questions regarding scripts and tools for scripting lately. Presented here are a a few links to Resources which will help most people with OSSL scripting.<br />
<br />
* [[OSSL Implemented|OSSL Functions with examples]] - A good place to start reading about OSSL scripting.<br />
* [[OSSL Script Library]] A library of scripts which utilize OSSL functions.<br />
* [[OSSL Proposals]] - Suggestions for custom OSSL functions. Got a suggestion too? Add it!<br />
* [[Drawing commands]] - How to use the texture draw functions supported in OSSL.<br />
* [[OSSL TextureDrawing]] - Details of the OSSL texture drawing functions.<br />
* [[OsParseJSON example1|Language Translation]] - A script which uses the JSON parsing function to call Google's Translation API<br />
* [http://www.osgrid.org/forums/ OSGrid Forums] - LSL/OSSL discussions, examples, tips, etc.<br />
<br />
<br />
== How to contribute ==<br />
The ScriptEngine is being developed by many developers. New developers are always welcome. If you want to contribute, even just a tiny little bit, have a look at the [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine]] page. There is a lot of developer activity on IRC ([[Support]]), feel free to drop in.<br />
<br />
* [[OSSL Standards]] - A whitepaper concerning naming-standards for the OpenSimulator scripting language<br />
* [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.Common]] - How to create your own script engine<br />
* [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.DotNetEngine|DotNet-Engine]] - Describes some of the esoteric parts of the DotNet-Engine <br />
<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
* [[ScriptEngines|Scripting Engine]] - [[Xengine]] Script Engine Transition (By Melanie_T) <br />
* [[Scripting Languages]] - Supported Scripting Languages <br />
* [[LSL Status|LSL/OSSL Status]] - Status and news about LSL and OSSL<br />
* [[OSSL Enabling Functions]] - How to enable OSSL functions.<br />
* [[Threat level]] - Information about OSSL threat levels.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Users]]<br />
[[Category:Scripting]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/QuickstartQuickstart2015-10-25T23:39:53Z<p>Fritigern: /* Quickstart Guide to Running OpenSim */</p>
<hr />
<div><br />
= Quickstart Guide to Running OpenSim =<br />
'''''*** This guide assumes that you will want to run a standalone server (so not connected to any grid) and that you are using Windows. This guide will later be expanded to include other Operating Systems and other modes (like grid mode or a hypergrid-connected standalone mode) ***'''''<br />
<br />
== Before We Begin ==<br />
* Download OpenSim from http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/downloads , the most current version is usually the best option. Note that the Opensim version from Osgrid.org is preconfigured to connect your regions to OSGrid. .<br />
* Make sure to have .NET 4.0 installed.<br />
* Decide on where you will want to keep the files. This guide assumes that C:\OpenSim is used, but you may want to think of a better place than that.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Setting up OpenSim ==<br />
1 - Unzip Opensim into its own folder, then rename the folder to just "OpenSim" and Move the folder to C:\ (You can move it elsewhere if you like, but I chose the root of C:\ because it's nice and short)<br />
<br />
<br />
2 - Change into the folder that OpenSim was unzipped to. change to the bin folder and change into the Regions folder as well, you should see a file called Regions.ini.example, which you can ignore for now. Create a new text file and name it Regions.ini (with capital R), open it in Notepad and paste the following text:<br />
<pre><br />
[My Region]<br />
RegionUUID = 11111111-2222-3333-4444-000000000000<br />
Location = 1000,1000<br />
SizeX = 256<br />
SizeY = 256<br />
SizeZ = 256<br />
InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br />
InternalPort = 9000<br />
AllowAlternatePorts = False<br />
ExternalHostName = SYSTEMIP<br />
MaptileStaticUUID = 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
I use this RegionUUID because it allows me to easily increment the last number in case I wish to add more regions later. <br />
Note that if you add another region, it will need a different port and RegionUUID, so adding 1 to each new RegionUUID and port makes things easy to keep track of.<br />
<br />
<br />
3 - Go back to the bin folder and change into the config-include folder. Copy the file StandaloneCommon.ini.example and name it StandaloneCommon.ini. Open the new file and replace all instances of the string "${Const|BaseURL}:${Const|PublicPort}" to localhost:9000 <br />
OPTIONAL: Find [GridInfoService] and change the gridname and the gridnick to something of your own choice.<br />
<br />
<br />
4 - Go back to the bin folder again and open Opensim.ini, look for "[Architecture]" and remove the semicolon from the line that says 'Include-Architecture = "config-include/Standalone.ini"' and add a semicolon to the start of the line that says 'Include-Architecture = "config-include/GridHypergrid.ini"'<br />
<br />
<br />
5 - From the Windows startmenu, open "Run" and enter "cmd" (without quotes). A black window should open. Now type "cd C:\OpenSim\bin" and hit enter, then enter "OpenSim.exe" and press enter to give opensim its first run.<br />
<br />
<br />
6 - You will be asked the following questions:<br />
New estate name [My Estate]:<br />
Estate owner first name [Test]:<br />
Estate owner last name [User]:<br />
Note that this info can be changed late on, so for now, let's go with the defaults.<br />
<br />
(Once you see "INITIALIZATION COMPLETE FOR My Region - LOGINS ENABLED", you will know that the startup is complete)<br />
<br />
<br />
7 - You will need an account to log in with, so we now issue the command "create user". the system will ask you the following questions:<br />
First name [Default]:<br />
Last name [User]:<br />
Password:<br />
Email []:<br />
User ID [random UUID]:<br />
<br />
You must do this for each user that you wish to add.<br />
Once you are done creating users, enter "quit" and press enter to exit the server, because we need to do one more thing.<br />
<br />
<br />
8 - Edit OpenSim.ini and find the text "[Estates]". You will want to uncomment (by removing the leading semicolon) and change the following lines:<br />
DefaultEstateName = My Estate<br />
DefaultEstateOwnerName = FirstName LastName<br />
DefaultEstateOwnerUUID = 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 <br />
DefaultEstateOwnerEMail = owner@domain.com<br />
DefaultEstateOwnerPassword = password<br />
These settings allow you to assign an estate owner, which is important because you will want to have as much control over your regions as possible.<br />
<br />
<br />
9 - Start the server again (always via the run=>cmd way!), then start your viewer and choose "localhost" as the grid to log into. To the best of my knowledge, this is a preset in all third party viewers.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Some more pointers: == <br />
<br />
- Once you've logged in, you will find yourself on a tiny island, looking like Ruth (the classic default avatar from Second Life). To change your island into flat land, go back to the cmd console and enter "terrain fill 21". This creates a flat land at 21 meters height (default water level is 20). This command also comes in handy if you mess up your terraforming and what to start over.<br />
<br />
- If you downloaded inventory archives and wish to import them into your own inventory, use the command "load iar --merge Firstname Lastname /goodies password C:\path\to\stuff.iar", where /goodies is the name of the folder in your inventory where the contents of the archive should be placed.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<!-- COMMENTED IN CASE IT'S NEEDED LATER<br />
'''THIS ARTICLE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION'''<br />
<br />
= General Setup =<br />
<br />
Setting up your own server can be a bit of a daunting task. It seems very complex and technical, and in a sense it can be. However, you don't have to be a computer expert to set up your own server, and if you follow this quickstart guide, you will have your server up and running within minutes, and you will be ready to build in your own sim.<br />
<br />
== What You Need To Know ==<br />
==== First of all ====<br />
It is very important to remember that OpenSimulator is not a finished product. It is always being worked on, and new features are coming out all the time, and bugs are being fixed. Because of this, things can change radically, or even break from one version to another.<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator is alpha software, so it's not even beta yet.So expect the software to break from time to time. <br />
<br />
Another thing to remember is although it looks, and for the most part, works like SecondLife, it is not SecondLife. There are some very important differences, and there are even things that are intentionally left out. And there are things that can only be done in OpenSim, and not in SecondLife.<br />
<br />
==== Modes ====<br />
Simply put, OpenSimulator (Opensim for short) can run in two modes. Grid mode, and standalone mode.<br />
<br />
Standalone mode means that it is simply running on your own PC, and it is not part of a grid. It is advised that this is how you start, because this is easiest way to run a server.<br />
<br />
Grid mode means that it is part of a grid. If you want your server to be part of a grid (see the [[Grid List|grid list]]), then it will take some additional configuration which we can not cover here, because it is different for each grid.<br />
<br />
There are additional modes, but you can look into them at a later time.<br />
<br />
==== Databases ====<br />
OpenSimulator depends heavily on its database. Without it, OpenSimulator can not run. <br />
By default, OpenSimulator comes with SQLite and will use that , but if you want, you can choose another database engine like MySQL or MSSQL. <br />
<br />
== What You Need To Have ==<br />
<br />
Before you start, you will need to have a few things ready. These things are:<br />
<br />
* A copy of the latest OpenSim, which you can download [[Download#Current release|from here]] (get the one under "Current Release").<br />OpenSimulator is platform independent. This means that it is written so that it will work on Windows, MacOSX, and Linux, so you won't have to worry about getting the one that's right for your system.<br />
* A program to unpack compressed files with, 7Zip works well, and is available for most operating systems.<br />
* Windows users: Make sure you have at least .NET 3.5 installed. You can get the latest version from [http://www.microsoft.com/net/download.aspx here].<br />
* Non-Windows users: All other operating systems will need to have Mono installed. Make sure it's the FULL mono package, and not just part of it. See [[Dependencies#Linux and Mac OSX|this page]] for info on what's needed on your system.<br />
<br />
=== First Steps ===<br />
First, it's best to make a folder somewhere on your system. For now, i would suggest putting the folder on your desktop, so that you can easily find it. We will call the folder "OpenSim".<br />
<br />
If you haven't downloaded the latest version of OpenSimulator yet, then this is a good time to do it. <br />
<br />
Once you have downloaded it, you will need to unpack it. Some unpackers unpack to the place where the compressed file is, which would make your folder a terrible mess, so the best idea is to first move it into the new Opensim folder, and then unpack it.<br />
<br />
=== Now We Really Get Started ===<br />
<br />
----<br />
----<br />
----<br />
= REWRITE =<br />
----<br />
----<br />
----<br />
<br />
--></div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/QuickstartQuickstart2015-10-25T23:39:31Z<p>Fritigern: Major overhaul of the quickstart guide. At least this time it will lead to a reader starting and running their server!</p>
<hr />
<div><br />
= Quickstart Guide to Running OpenSim =<br />
'''''*** This guide assumes that you will want to run a standalone server (so not connected to OSGrid)and that you are using Windows. This guide will later be expanded to include other Operating Systems and other modes (like grid mode or a hypergrid-connected standalone mode) ***'''''<br />
<br />
== Before We Begin ==<br />
* Download OpenSim from http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/downloads , the most current version is usually the best option. Note that the Opensim version from Osgrid.org is preconfigured to connect your regions to OSGrid. .<br />
* Make sure to have .NET 4.0 installed.<br />
* Decide on where you will want to keep the files. This guide assumes that C:\OpenSim is used, but you may want to think of a better place than that.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Setting up OpenSim ==<br />
1 - Unzip Opensim into its own folder, then rename the folder to just "OpenSim" and Move the folder to C:\ (You can move it elsewhere if you like, but I chose the root of C:\ because it's nice and short)<br />
<br />
<br />
2 - Change into the folder that OpenSim was unzipped to. change to the bin folder and change into the Regions folder as well, you should see a file called Regions.ini.example, which you can ignore for now. Create a new text file and name it Regions.ini (with capital R), open it in Notepad and paste the following text:<br />
<pre><br />
[My Region]<br />
RegionUUID = 11111111-2222-3333-4444-000000000000<br />
Location = 1000,1000<br />
SizeX = 256<br />
SizeY = 256<br />
SizeZ = 256<br />
InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br />
InternalPort = 9000<br />
AllowAlternatePorts = False<br />
ExternalHostName = SYSTEMIP<br />
MaptileStaticUUID = 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
I use this RegionUUID because it allows me to easily increment the last number in case I wish to add more regions later. <br />
Note that if you add another region, it will need a different port and RegionUUID, so adding 1 to each new RegionUUID and port makes things easy to keep track of.<br />
<br />
<br />
3 - Go back to the bin folder and change into the config-include folder. Copy the file StandaloneCommon.ini.example and name it StandaloneCommon.ini. Open the new file and replace all instances of the string "${Const|BaseURL}:${Const|PublicPort}" to localhost:9000 <br />
OPTIONAL: Find [GridInfoService] and change the gridname and the gridnick to something of your own choice.<br />
<br />
<br />
4 - Go back to the bin folder again and open Opensim.ini, look for "[Architecture]" and remove the semicolon from the line that says 'Include-Architecture = "config-include/Standalone.ini"' and add a semicolon to the start of the line that says 'Include-Architecture = "config-include/GridHypergrid.ini"'<br />
<br />
<br />
5 - From the Windows startmenu, open "Run" and enter "cmd" (without quotes). A black window should open. Now type "cd C:\OpenSim\bin" and hit enter, then enter "OpenSim.exe" and press enter to give opensim its first run.<br />
<br />
<br />
6 - You will be asked the following questions:<br />
New estate name [My Estate]:<br />
Estate owner first name [Test]:<br />
Estate owner last name [User]:<br />
Note that this info can be changed late on, so for now, let's go with the defaults.<br />
<br />
(Once you see "INITIALIZATION COMPLETE FOR My Region - LOGINS ENABLED", you will know that the startup is complete)<br />
<br />
<br />
7 - You will need an account to log in with, so we now issue the command "create user". the system will ask you the following questions:<br />
First name [Default]:<br />
Last name [User]:<br />
Password:<br />
Email []:<br />
User ID [random UUID]:<br />
<br />
You must do this for each user that you wish to add.<br />
Once you are done creating users, enter "quit" and press enter to exit the server, because we need to do one more thing.<br />
<br />
<br />
8 - Edit OpenSim.ini and find the text "[Estates]". You will want to uncomment (by removing the leading semicolon) and change the following lines:<br />
DefaultEstateName = My Estate<br />
DefaultEstateOwnerName = FirstName LastName<br />
DefaultEstateOwnerUUID = 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 <br />
DefaultEstateOwnerEMail = owner@domain.com<br />
DefaultEstateOwnerPassword = password<br />
These settings allow you to assign an estate owner, which is important because you will want to have as much control over your regions as possible.<br />
<br />
<br />
9 - Start the server again (always via the run=>cmd way!), then start your viewer and choose "localhost" as the grid to log into. To the best of my knowledge, this is a preset in all third party viewers.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Some more pointers: == <br />
<br />
- Once you've logged in, you will find yourself on a tiny island, looking like Ruth (the classic default avatar from Second Life). To change your island into flat land, go back to the cmd console and enter "terrain fill 21". This creates a flat land at 21 meters height (default water level is 20). This command also comes in handy if you mess up your terraforming and what to start over.<br />
<br />
- If you downloaded inventory archives and wish to import them into your own inventory, use the command "load iar --merge Firstname Lastname /goodies password C:\path\to\stuff.iar", where /goodies is the name of the folder in your inventory where the contents of the archive should be placed.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<!-- COMMENTED IN CASE IT'S NEEDED LATER<br />
'''THIS ARTICLE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION'''<br />
<br />
= General Setup =<br />
<br />
Setting up your own server can be a bit of a daunting task. It seems very complex and technical, and in a sense it can be. However, you don't have to be a computer expert to set up your own server, and if you follow this quickstart guide, you will have your server up and running within minutes, and you will be ready to build in your own sim.<br />
<br />
== What You Need To Know ==<br />
==== First of all ====<br />
It is very important to remember that OpenSimulator is not a finished product. It is always being worked on, and new features are coming out all the time, and bugs are being fixed. Because of this, things can change radically, or even break from one version to another.<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator is alpha software, so it's not even beta yet.So expect the software to break from time to time. <br />
<br />
Another thing to remember is although it looks, and for the most part, works like SecondLife, it is not SecondLife. There are some very important differences, and there are even things that are intentionally left out. And there are things that can only be done in OpenSim, and not in SecondLife.<br />
<br />
==== Modes ====<br />
Simply put, OpenSimulator (Opensim for short) can run in two modes. Grid mode, and standalone mode.<br />
<br />
Standalone mode means that it is simply running on your own PC, and it is not part of a grid. It is advised that this is how you start, because this is easiest way to run a server.<br />
<br />
Grid mode means that it is part of a grid. If you want your server to be part of a grid (see the [[Grid List|grid list]]), then it will take some additional configuration which we can not cover here, because it is different for each grid.<br />
<br />
There are additional modes, but you can look into them at a later time.<br />
<br />
==== Databases ====<br />
OpenSimulator depends heavily on its database. Without it, OpenSimulator can not run. <br />
By default, OpenSimulator comes with SQLite and will use that , but if you want, you can choose another database engine like MySQL or MSSQL. <br />
<br />
== What You Need To Have ==<br />
<br />
Before you start, you will need to have a few things ready. These things are:<br />
<br />
* A copy of the latest OpenSim, which you can download [[Download#Current release|from here]] (get the one under "Current Release").<br />OpenSimulator is platform independent. This means that it is written so that it will work on Windows, MacOSX, and Linux, so you won't have to worry about getting the one that's right for your system.<br />
* A program to unpack compressed files with, 7Zip works well, and is available for most operating systems.<br />
* Windows users: Make sure you have at least .NET 3.5 installed. You can get the latest version from [http://www.microsoft.com/net/download.aspx here].<br />
* Non-Windows users: All other operating systems will need to have Mono installed. Make sure it's the FULL mono package, and not just part of it. See [[Dependencies#Linux and Mac OSX|this page]] for info on what's needed on your system.<br />
<br />
=== First Steps ===<br />
First, it's best to make a folder somewhere on your system. For now, i would suggest putting the folder on your desktop, so that you can easily find it. We will call the folder "OpenSim".<br />
<br />
If you haven't downloaded the latest version of OpenSimulator yet, then this is a good time to do it. <br />
<br />
Once you have downloaded it, you will need to unpack it. Some unpackers unpack to the place where the compressed file is, which would make your folder a terrible mess, so the best idea is to first move it into the new Opensim folder, and then unpack it.<br />
<br />
=== Now We Really Get Started ===<br />
<br />
----<br />
----<br />
----<br />
= REWRITE =<br />
----<br />
----<br />
----<br />
<br />
--></div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-20Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-202015-10-25T23:02:42Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: hello :)<br />
[10:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Neb<br />
[10:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was trying to help someone who was at my place shopping the other day...the things they were taking was collections of animations (20-100 of them per box) and it was doing a very strange thing for her<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: she would click to "buy" which sends it using llGiveInventoryList()<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then her viewer fpx would plummet down to 0.2 until the transfer was completed<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it would take an unusually long time to send (60+ seconds)<br />
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: but only for them?<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was in the region and it was fine<br />
[11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi aine<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and she said sim fps and physics fps was reporting 11-11.3<br />
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: could be their router<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and no time dilation<br />
[11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: soemthing works fine for you ?<br />
[11:00] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this was with her OSG account<br />
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: 11 fps is the max now<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: she relogged and caome with her Metro account<br />
[11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: transfers were completely normal and much, much faster for her<br />
[11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then she logged back to her OSG account and returned....right back to the same issue<br />
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: odd<br />
[11:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: problems with osgrid?<br />
[11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so the sim fps and physics fps were reporting fine....it was only her bsic viewer fps that was killed<br />
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: maybe something between that simulator and osgrid<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it only affected her<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: I have never seen anything like that<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i sometimes send folders with 100s even 1000s of objects<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ive literally sent whole sims i picked up<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: and took into inventory<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: IK've never seen that either<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you almost start to think you use 2 gateways and it's switchen between. :O<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I just wondered if you could think of anything that would cause it to happen<br />
[11:03] alfiere rossini: ciao shy<br />
[11:03] alfiere rossini (it -> en): Hi shy<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: bad route<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and particularly when with everything else identical, it wasn't happening with her MEtro account<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: between that sim and the osgrid server<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: that is the only thing that really makes any sense to me<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess that's possible<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but why would that kill viewer fps?<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I saw that happen when texture pipeline is disrupted<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: at OSCC grid<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: shouldn't that be just chugging along in the background?<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and I saw the same thing like 5fps<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot to open a port<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i guess not that would be a question for the viewer devs I guess<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well...except that with the identical viewer, identical computer, identical routers, etc she had no issue with her Metro avi<br />
[11:05] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so it's something related to traffic too<br />
[11:05] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: packet loss<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: can do a number on the simulator and the viewer<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: UDP<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I suppose<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: its very CPU intensive when packet loss is high<br />
[11:05] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 2b437f8: 2015-10-20 00:58:16 +0200 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wich side of the sea is your home aine ?<br />
[11:06] Shy Robbiani: that's why I still have an avi on each of the two grids<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi sjy<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: maybe try a MTR between that simulator and OSgrid server<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: winMTR is good<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that is a region on the main RG server which is in a very large datacenter just outside of Montreal<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: there are so many reasons stuff like this could happen<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so pipeline between there and Texas should be fast<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: that is outside of our control<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and again, why would that affect viewer fps?<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: "should"<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:07] Shy Robbiani: hi Richardus and anybody else<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: the DNS service you use can deteremine that<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: Texas to California there is 100s of potetial routes for instance<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: and depending on which DNS service you are using<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: could determine routes<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if there's something borked between RG and OSG that still doesn't explain why the viewer fps in region would suddenly bork<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and only for her<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was standing right there and everything was rock solid for me<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it would if she is experiencing packet loss between the viewer and region<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and as she said, her sim and physics fps was normal...it was just her viewer fps<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: when the viewer cant reach the specific source of textures<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: FPS drops bad<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: i cant explain why<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: but I can prove it<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: with OSCC we have textures served from its own robust console<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and if i cut that firewall port<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i go from 100fps to 5fps<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and thats literally the only result<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the textures still load from cache<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: but it takes forever<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: 20-30 minutes<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: vs 20-30 seconds<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you think somehow inventory transfer interferes with the texture pipeline for her?<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (and only for her)<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: could be overwelming their router<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: could be eating threads<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess if it was overwhelming her router, shouldn't it be doing that regardless of which account she's using?<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are lots of questinos<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: does their OSGrid inventory have 10000s of items<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no idea<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: vs other grid having only 5 items<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:11] Shy Robbiani: it's important<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: too many questions to say for sure<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I expect her inventory is about the same on the 2 accounts she checked it with<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: could be a bad attachment<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've never experienced anything like it so I really had no idea at all what to say or how to help her<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and as soon as the folder arrived, she was back to be completely fine again<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: what I can say is the problems you are seeing are not necesserily the cause<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with 40+fps (viewer)<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: they are likely as a result of the real problem<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well....if nothing else at least you're aware of it<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: it sounds to me like network problem<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and maybe it somehow ties into the texture issue you experienced<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i can quite easily create environment that produces the same results you see<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: by disrupting network<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies....well, I thought I'd just ask in case it was something useful<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: could be something as simple as their security software is throttling port 80<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but not 8002<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: OSGrid == port 80<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: If it can be triggered. then why it seems to hard to find a workaround/fix ?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so many invisible possibilities<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: that can make you chase ghosts<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oh, it's almost halloween...<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: how do i fix broken network with our code Richardus?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you figure that out let me know, we'll be billionairs<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No, broken network hard to fix. but are problems like that solved correct ?<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: maybe, its hard to say, these are complicated issues<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the scenario i can recreate<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: is not fixable by code<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its fixable by correcting your environment<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aine, you not have other router to test ?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: which we are going to encounter a lot<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: with people home hosting<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: who knows what your ISP is doing<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it wasn't me experiencing the problem<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i know here at Comcast NJ<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i cant host regions on port 10000<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i cant explain why<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: eeww. comcast<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it as someone visiting my shopping region<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but if i do the regions run like shit<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: literally no valid explination accpet comcast uses port 10000 for something<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and they are not saying what<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: i switch to 10001 and problem disappears<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: maybe that's their NSA spy channel<br />
[11:17] Shy Robbiani: lol<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall port 10000 can be used for certain network management protocols<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ndmp<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: possible because some VOIP things nebadon./<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya one of those ghosts I chased for a while<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i just stopped using port 10000<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah.<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I had the same issue and used the same solution...just switched to a different port<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: better hunt bugs :)<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's one of those odd ones though<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i fear there are a lot of these kind of issues that skew our ability to pinpoint actual bugs<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: muddy waters<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: when i first got involved in OpenSimulator, i honestly didnt think home hosted simulators was possible<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: if you had chat logs of my first month in IRC channel<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: you would have thought i was a Linden Lab plant<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: trying to disuage everyone this was possible<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i honestly didnt think we could pull it off<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: not one that could compete in any way with SL at the time anyway<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and I was super wrong<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: if you can Aine, take a look at MTR traces<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: see if you can find spots that have loss maybe<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: or get that person too<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: WinMTR<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: http://winmtr.net/<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: good tool, you can spot a network problem vs a simulator/viewer problem<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would it be between them and OSG? or OSG and RG? or.....?<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: both or all<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: check the routes as much as you can<br />
[11:24] Shy Robbiani: often it's in between :(<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: not always that easy<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: but if you can<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: another good tool in the toolbox<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: for determining bug, vs environment issue<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'll pass that link on to her and see if that helps<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Opensim have no network stats about dropped packets udp etc ?<br />
[11:25] Shy Robbiani: from Switzerland we had a very poor peering to the LL servers in Texas<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I did a ping check on both RG and OSG when it was happening......OSG was a little slow to respond but not terrible<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: RG was extremely fast<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: most of my opensim servers are in Germany<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and no loss with either<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: or California/Texas<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: im in New Jersey<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but of course that's my connection...not hers<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: CDN neb ?<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: im always about 2000+ miles from any of my servers<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I use http://hetzner.de<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: they are practically giving servers away for free<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha, that i know<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup, chueap. if you have a credit card<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: relatively speaking<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i have 6 servers<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what sort of ping times do you get for trans-Atlantic? ~120ms?<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: they are all 8 core with 48gb ram<br />
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aty 156 in the viewer<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: 110-120ms<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm usually in the ~135ms range but it has to travel through mosquito-infests swamps to get here<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (or bogs)<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: and thats from Blackwood, NJ to Nurmberg DE<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: like 3500+ miles<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: SO instead of avoiding bugs, you go visit them aine :O<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I live in the midst of them (in summer)<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i get the same speed to Germany from NJ as i do to Irvine California<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: about 100-120ms<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: NJ to Irvine<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that is<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I often get times around 60ms to OSG's servers when I check it<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya i get like 90-110 to OSgrid servers<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs to RG it's much closer and usually 20-25ms<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: in Texas<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: also about 2000 miles, 1900 or so<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i miss the 30ms i got in Arizona<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: comcast did just upgrade my speed<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i am getting like 180mb down now<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lo, i downgarded my speed much.<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my ISP announced this month that they'll begin offering 1Gb+ speeds next spring<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (not to me, though)<br />
[11:34] Shy Robbiani: at reasonable prices?<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: supposedly....they haven't released the pricing yet<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but they'll be making it available to residential customers<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.speedtest.net/result/4761997686.png<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: begining in major urban centers<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so I probably won't get it until 2099<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: that would be nice to have<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: just hope they dont make you use some wierd modem<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: that you cant hook any conventional routers too<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: FIOS was kind of like that<br />
[11:36] Shy Robbiani: we got it this summer... I have fibre in the living room, but cant use it... too expensive for me :)<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway....on the Opensim front I gather that the phasing in of the Avination merge stuff is going to be done differently than originally planned<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yea its an ever evolving plan<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: with the goal to minimize pain as much as possible<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: fibre ? pff. i think that's far away<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if I'm understanding the new plan, it seems much more friendly in terms of upgrade path<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea hopefully<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: cheaper to put opensim on vps in datacenter then<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: we are trying to spread it out a bit<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: so its less stressful<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: fast hdd access, fast network<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: HUGE thumbs up for doing that<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya didnt want to disrupt OSCC if can help it<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that would not benefit anyone<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: More easy to catch problems<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: which BTW is full speed ahead<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: if you are interested<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, suddenly cutting the "upgraded" from "not upgraded" in one fell swoop would have been a nightmare<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: curious who are going tot alk<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2015/10/official-opensim-conference-slated-for-december/<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I understand the idea behind the "you should stay current" push<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus too early yet<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: we just started call for registration<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i know :P but still curious<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: but as info comes in it will be on that site above<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but having no overlap at all is just too extreme, so the 2-3 step upgrade path will be a lot easier for people to digest<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Volunteers will get the inside info the fastest :P<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: hint hint<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya definitely Aine<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i or none of the devs are looking to ruin anyones day here<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but these are things that have to happen<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sure<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: just a matter of making a plan that works<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the overlap period/compatibility is pretty important<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the original plan didn';t appear to have that...at all<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: well the plan was always developing<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: and still is<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: there is a lot of top soil to move, so to speak :)<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: more of a "screw you if you don't update to git the instant it's released" mentality which I didn't think was going to be very well received by the general user<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: soemtimes you dont unearth things until after you start planning<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: For now i concentrate on blender. making progress. now only the many materials to YV-map trick<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya, we have to realize to, beacuse one person says something, doesnt make it necessarily gospel<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: just starting points / talking points<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: remember most of these devs are far removed from the social aspects of opensim<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: when it's a key dev saying it, it's a little harder to ignore<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but we try to keep dialog open so we can resolve cocerns like this<br />
[11:44] Shy Robbiani: but it's good that a solution for this tp versioning thing could be found<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: at any rate, kudos for revisiting that idea and taking a smoother approach to an upgrade patah<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: its really the only reason I am a core developer<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: its not becasue of my awesome code<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no?<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: its becasue i represent you guys<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 faints<br />
[11:45] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: :)<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i have commited almost zero code<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: in comparison to all other core devs<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: im definitely in last place<br />
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb ur the mono expert aswell :)<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: You commited lost, offocrse it's not code.<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there any ballpark on when Avimerge will be dropping into 0.8.3?<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: I have practical hands on experience<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lots :O<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: here and SL<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: pre-New Year?<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure Aine, that will mostly come down to Divas availability<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: unlikely pre-new year<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: between OSCC and holidays and our Encitra stuff<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure we have time<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: also UBit<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i cant speak for him, even though he is a machine<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: there is a lot to do<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so 0.8.2 early in new year then the drop into 0.8.3 I guess<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: yea maybe<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: nothing definite at this point<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: however with this new transition<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: using taht code becomes a lot easier<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: less rrsk of isolation<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: anyone wanting to use that code<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: do a normal git clone<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: also more opportunity for broader based testing before the forced update<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: then go into folder and type "git checkout avinationmerge"<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: then git pull again<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and compile as normal<br />
[11:49] Shy Robbiani: I installed 0.8.2.0-RC1 today<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: actually<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i bet i can pull a zip from github<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: https://github.com/nebadon2025/opensimulator/tree/avinationmerge<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: here it is on github<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: https://github.com/nebadon2025/opensimulator/archive/avinationmerge.zip<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm a little too nervous about applying that to a region on a production grid<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: here is source code zip<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: this has to be compiled<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but if your not familair with git<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't want it to in any way kill RG while I test it<br />
[11:50] Shy Robbiani: use it on OSGrid *lol*<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: this is an option<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: you can<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: Sisyphus here on OSgrid runs it<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: as are a few others<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: if you do try it and if you find issues be sure to report it right away<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: file a mantis etc..<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: it definitely needs more testing<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has anyone done any work with rigging to the attachment bones, and in particular to one of the attachment bones with a space in its name?<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: misterblue told me he was driving my racer over borders<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: using Ubode<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: and that it was not too bad<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I have only used Avastar for rigging<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: which is cheating<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:54] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: .o/<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've been doing some testing using Avastar for that<br />
[11:54] Shy Robbiani: me too... I only used Avastar<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: works great<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: for the price<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I can rig it and make it work with aSkull, aNose, etc<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but for any of the ones like aLeft Ear or aLeft Eyeball or aLeft Pec it makes the mesh explode<br />
[11:55] Shy Robbiani: oh<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: I have not seen that<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any vert that has any weight at all to that bone will plant iteself at region <0,0,0><br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: email Avastar<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: those guys are serious experts<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, I will<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I think Avastar is a bargain for what it does<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea its great<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: huge time saver<br />
[11:56] Shy Robbiani: I've been using her producs since JASS<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone is looking to get started learning blender<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i have a great tutorial i give my Encitra students<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: brand spanking new<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: to duplicate what it offers would be hours and hours and hours of work so to pay $20 instead of doing 40-50 hours of messy rigging is worth every penny<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Lesson 1 is here > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkhNwJLCrbE<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have some beginner tutorials on my blog, Neb<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lesson 2/3 here > http://www.blendernation.com/2015/10/14/tutorial-how-to-model-a-low-poly-spaceship/<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which they might find handy too (text-based ones)<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and this of course as well<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: https://cgcookie.com/flow/introduction-to-blender/<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: we are starting the process of transition to mesh only at Encitra<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: so i have everyone doing this training to start<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: it covers almost everything we need for basic modeling<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: step 1: swap mouse buttons :p<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: very good tutorial<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nooo, step is connecting a bamboo pen tablet to the pc. super for rotating and moving in the scene<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I wish<br />
[12:00] Shy Robbiani: when I tried to bookmark it was already there :)<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: oh one last thing<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm left handed....I can't operate a pen with my right hand<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: about the 0.8.2 release<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I can't hot-key with my right<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: we need some help from everyone<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: for Release Notes<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i promised Diva i would mention it today<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: am right. but i moved the mouse years ago to left. only hard to use the keyboard at the same time :P<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.8.2.0_Release<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: anyone can add anything to this please do<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: with Justin gone, we need as much help here as possible<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what the mean with this ? " No form of prim equivalence is implemented for meshes. "<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't begin to remember all the changes since 0.8.1<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: meaning<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont specify a mesh physics shape on upload<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: it becomes a cube<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: vs the actual shape<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: it should try to us visual shape for physics<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: before defaulting to none or cube<br />
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thinks.. before it alwats used the model shape. oh well. nothing shocking. if your used the make the physics too<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: I think that is what this means anyway<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: im still not sure its right<br />
[12:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: thought that was meaning no land impact, just i prim count per mesh<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: but i think that was what this means<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: oh maybe Alicia<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: that seems wierd to specify that though<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but ya maybe<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think it's the LI calculation thingy<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sounds more logic. because physics i think works fine for long time.<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (or lack thereof)<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats wierd to list that though in release notes<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: we still dont have X<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: that would be like 50 pages<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: anyway, ya this page is super rough<br />
[12:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yea physics uses physics mesh or highest visual lod level, no change there as far as i know<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: if you have any knowledge that can fill in the blanks<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and have 5 minutes please do<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not have experience with 0.8.2<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think Justin just did a dump of the git comments, then deleted the misc ones and only kept the substantive changes<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: even if someone can look through Git logs<br />
[12:05] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 2b437f8: 2015-10-20 00:58:16 +0200 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its mostly just a matter of having time<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: anyone can kind of do this<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: just a summary<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: not a technical document<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: you really dont have to be an "expert" to sumarize from a list :)<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: so if you can would be awesome<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: or know anyone that can pass it along<br />
[12:07] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: (sorry i'm late, this meeting is going on for around an hour already right?)<br />
[12:07] Shy Robbiani: however, some of the technical documentation in the wiki is outdated and needs updates too<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: Tom yes we are wrapping up<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: looks like 20 pages of commits since 0.8.1<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi tom, bye tom :) yeah. a bit late<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: we will post chat log though<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: you can read back<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: Sheera will :) i hope<br />
[12:08] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes Tom, it started one hour ago<br />
[12:08] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: And I'll post the log soon<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes Shy, the wiki needs love<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: lots of love<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: next week we have a summertime change uhmm sorry normal time change<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: we need volunteers<br />
[12:09] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-20<br />
[12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...the osslenable.ini is part of this<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to and need guidance<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: track me down<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: or come to IRC<br />
[12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the MOSES changes to sim fps, etc<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: we can help answer questions anyone may need help with on IRC editing<br />
[12:09] Shy Robbiani: btw. have you seen my message about the error I get when building with mono 4?<br />
[12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the Kitely script stats changes<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: Aine, even if you can not or dont have time to wiki edit<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: can you send email to opensim-dev list<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: with those<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: bullet points<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: anything else you think of<br />
[12:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods...I'll try to make some time in the next couple of weeks<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: thanks<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: sooner the better<br />
[12:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm super busy until Nov 7th though<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: prior to release would be prefereable<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ok well just a short email to list<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: with those bullet points is enough<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: then someone else can add it to wiki<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: just so they are not forgotten is all<br />
[12:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: when you expect the release ?<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: soon<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: RC1 just got made<br />
[12:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that i already guessed after you last lines<br />
[12:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: diva emailed if you didnt see it<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: must have been after I checked my mail this morning<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: Hi everyone,<br />
Just a heads up that we are planning to make a new release of OpenSim, 0.8.2, with what's currently on the master branch, that is, before any merge happens with the avination branch. I already created a branch 0.8.2-post-fixes and will do a release candidate very soon. There are several improvements in this release wrt the previous one, including inventory download performance and the ability for ODE to handle varregions.<br />
WRT teleport compatibility between versions, there shouldn't be any issues between the upcoming 0.8.2 and prior versions.<br />
In the meantime, the avination branch is proving solid, and we're getting close to merge it back to master, but that will be after 0.8.2 is released.<br />
Best,<br />
Diva<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: for those who didnt see it<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...that one I saw<br />
[12:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the mail posisble still need to arive here<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I didn't see the RC1 release annoucement<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe she didnt email that<br />
[12:12] Shy Robbiani: it's here: http://opensimulator.org/dist/<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: im looking<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya its posted there<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: i guess maybe she only said that in IRC<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that one should be mailed out<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: it was very late<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because (shocker!) not the entire Opensim community hangs out in IRC 24/7<br />
[12:13] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and it was posted in opensim-dev<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: ok<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: just checked<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: Diva says not 100% official yet<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: she is working out logistics of doing it still i think<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: also she is waiting on release notes<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: before announcing RC1<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: so ya<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: ASAP<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: if possible<br />
[12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'll try to find an hour this weekend<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: thanks!<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-13Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-132015-10-25T23:02:07Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yesterday someone was posting in G+ about the latest version of FS having issues with grinding to a halt in a 12x12 var and my first thought was how in hell you could do anything meaningful i a 12x12 in the first place<br />
[11:02] Marcus Llewellyn: Heh<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and they mentioned residents, etc so I'm thinking it was set up as a residential community<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so even if you give 1 "region" per person, that's 144 people putting down their stuff<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if each one only puts 2k items and 100 scripts *per region* that's still going to be ~300k items and 14k scripts to handle<br />
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: The lack of good region crossings has driven people to make huge Vars.<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = dead simulator *long* before the viewer becomes an issue<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but huge *empty* vars<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you start filling that space with your "average" person's 256x256 content that would rapidly kill the instance<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's common to see 10k objects and 1500 scripts in a single regions<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so start multiplying that by the number of "regions" in the var and that gets insane<br />
[11:05] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nebadon is on his way<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh i know some that did pusg 40K and i think 2000 scripts on 1 normal region<br />
[11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not much diiferent then when people host 20+ regions in a single sim instance on their home computer. Insert face palm.<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sure<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can see it for a mostly-water sailing area<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or maybe a racetrack or flying area<br />
[11:06] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we tell people large vars are not recomended but they dont listen, or dont want to listen<br />
[11:06] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as you don't put down very much stuff at all<br />
[11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Depending on the home computer that in itself isn't too bad. Connections tend to be the bigger issue with home-hosted<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I know a guy who is building models of cities, and just wants vehicles to move freely through them. Presumably he will control the prim content and visitors will not bring a lot of content.<br />
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: So he wants a 12x12<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hi all<br />
[11:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi neb, hi rechardus<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I hope it's 99% prim cubes with a building texture on it<br />
[11:07] Shy Robbiani: hi all<br />
[11:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi shy<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i created a var, to lower simborders. and it saves resources. and it's running good only 3x3 not fully packed 25K i think<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the other strong recommendation that Justin used to say was 1 core per region<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so a 12x12 would ideally have access to 144 cores<br />
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: supercomputer<br />
[11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: That's more for heavily loaded regions or large numbers of visitors.<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: Aine thats not necesarily true<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: size of the simulator has nothing to do with it really<br />
[11:09] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: thats based on SL recommendations from years ago, is 1 core per region being generous with todays tech?<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I know it was a gross overgeneralization<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and depends a lot on content<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: generally we recommend 1 core minimum per simulator is mostly becasue of physics<br />
[11:10] Shy Robbiani: on content and scripts<br />
[11:10] Hippo Finesmith: hi folkks<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: you only 1 get 1 physics thread per simulator<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but trying to run a 12x12 on4 physical cores is going to be nasty unless there aren't many scripts and objects<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi hippo<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: well those are not cpu limits though<br />
[11:10] OtakuMegane Desu: Physics or very heavy scripts/avatar population. If you're not going to strain any of those, just keep an eye on CPU usage and you'll be fine with whatever works.<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: generally the problem with large regions is I/O problem<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: not a cpu problem<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: the terrain is huge<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: 12x12 you are nearing Gigabyte range<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you'd need a huge amount of RAM too, I would assume<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of size of the terrain<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: 100's of megabytes anyway<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway, I wouldn't personally try anything larger than a 4x4<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and at the rate I build, it would take me a decade to finish that<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea technically there are issues you could encounter beyond that anyway really<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer just doesnt handle terrain larger than that very well<br />
[11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. Once I got to like 5x5 and 6x6 it started to show little issues and lag and that was for an empty region.<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: there will be performance issues to deal with<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yea technically it will work<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and might seem awesome for 1 avatar<br />
[11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Nothing you couldn't live with if you really needed the size but things that could be noticed<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but try having 10 avatars log in simulatneously<br />
[11:13] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: hello to all<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: or cross a border<br />
[11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im using 3x3 but testing with 4x4, i think 4x4 will be ok when parcel updates can be sent for view distance with out the ghost parcel bug<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: it will crash probably<br />
[11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Border crossing to/from vars into other size regions is still wonky at best I find.<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you want a big sandbox for experimenting large vars are great, but that experience will not translate into a good production level experience<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: the smaller they are the better it works<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: probably okay for 1 or 2 avi<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: with 768x768 we use in Encitragrid<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think i have ever had a border crossing fail<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but anything more than that and I'd expect it to crash and burn<br />
[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: You have to have a very extensive build or need maybe lots of water to really use much past 4x4 anyway.<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: It's a lot of space to just start building in<br />
[11:15] Hippo Finesmith: i find it hard to fill a 256x256 but im no builder lol<br />
[11:15] Mercalia Beck: I have 4x2 mega on a 2x2 ghz is ok<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think Cute said something about needing a 8x8 for a flight simulator or something<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I could see flight or sailing sims needing that kind of space<br />
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: I write forest rezzers to plant lots of trees to fill in the terrain.<br />
[11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, there are good use cases. BUt the majority of people will never need half that.<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: in very controlled environments i think large vars are ok<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as the terrain is mostly empty that would work fine<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but in an open area you expect lots of visitors and concurency<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its a bad idea<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeps<br />
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: So reliable vehicle crossing borders would calm people down from wanting big vars.<br />
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: The avination code may provide that finally. I haven't tested that myswlf.<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: yes eventually it will<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: right now it probably only works with ubODE<br />
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: I only have one sim on avinationmerge<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Scrap that word reliable.. SL still have not reliable sim corssings. so for opensim it's further away<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my guess is any border crossing between simulators will never be good unless they're on the same host machine or, at least, in the same host LAN<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but crossing from my region hosted in Montreal to person X's region hosted in Paras is always going to suck badly<br />
[11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: SL border crossings suck because things tend to be overloaded and LL hasn't put much effort into fixing them in ages that I know of.<br />
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Region crossings of any sort always have an element of peril on a grid like OSgrid. ;)<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or that would be my expectation<br />
[11:19] Lucy Afarensis: I was next to a guy from australia<br />
[11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: Users have learned to live with it, they still get their rent and that's that. :P<br />
[11:19] Lucy Afarensis: Im in michigan'<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe...that's a bit of a hike for the data to take :p<br />
[11:20] Lucy Afarensis: yes<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of people running from machines at home have residential level routers<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: swimming back and forth across the Pacific<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: are not always the best or fastest for routing the amount of traffic opensim and the viewer can generate<br />
[11:20] Hippo Finesmith: and silly adsl upload speeds<br />
[11:20] Shy Robbiani: I've been waiting for border-crossing for ages<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess the biggest issue is lack of predictive need to cross<br />
[11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Biggest issue with home hosting anything really is the connection. Even very good downstream doesn't guarantee upstream is that good.<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you knew in advance you could presend/prefetch and then just quickly hand over<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: even slow bandwidth is less of an issue honestly<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the way it is now requires everything to all go at once<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i remember long time ago having 17 users on a 5Mbps upstream connection<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and it wasnt bad<br />
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: My downstream is fine. My up is 1mb. That's awful. It's why I've never promoted my sims, or hosted parties, etc. I can't.<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but a bad router can be a disaster<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: small NAT tables<br />
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Third party firmware can help (a bit) on a home router.<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: some routers are horrible at UDP too<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had 20 on my 5Mb up and it wasn't bad...but they all came spaced out by 2+ minutes and were seated<br />
[11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Well upstream like that isn't as uncommon now but still plenty of DSL connections that're maybe half that or less.<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's surviving the intial login that's the hardest<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: I used to connect to a grid in Honk Kong<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: and it was rarely a problem<br />
[11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: And of course, the router. Even if it handles decently there's the hell of making most of them even function properly. HOme routers aren't designed for hosting and some even actively try to block it by lack of features, etc.<br />
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Initial region rezzing when it isn't cached on a user's side can kill home upstream pretty easily.<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:24] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Once that settles down, it can get pretty smooth.<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i like to have "fcache assets" run on every startup<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: incase cache gets cleared<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeps<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i have startup_commands.txt run "fcache assets"<br />
[11:25] Hippo Finesmith: same here<br />
[11:25] Shy Robbiani: good idea<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: this way you prevent that first no region cache login<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: which usually is like 10 minutes of not being able to move<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and stuck as a cloud<br />
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: That's a good idea, but only half the issue. You sure don't want the sim refetching a whole region from the asset servers while a user is simultaneously fetching to their cache. But on a limited upstream pipe, just the latter is a killer.<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i found something interesting few days ago on OSCC grid<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: we do something different there<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: we have all textures served directly from robust<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: instead of routing through simulators<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: we have 4 texture servers, one for each keynote<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: on ports 8006, 8016, 8026, 8036<br />
[11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: That's just a CAP change in the INI, ain't it?<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: well i forgot to open port 8006 to the world<br />
[11:27] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: calling fcache assets will only cache what is missing, so if the cache isnt empty it shouldnt be a problem to run every start up<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: so any region that was reliant on texture server on 8006 couldnt reach it<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: well man this did a major number on the viewer<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i was getting like 2fps<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: couldnt move<br />
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: Heh<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ouch<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: even though local cache was full<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: totally populated<br />
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: Have you updated OSCC to master(ish)?<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it took 20-30 minutes for all textures to become visible<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: so it seems if there is any disruption in the texture pipleine<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: its very very nasty<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: made my PC run really really bad<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: which has a dominoe effect<br />
[11:29] OtakuMegane Desu: Interesting<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: at it compounds itself<br />
[11:29] Lucy Afarensis: Things were ok when the safari visited<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: UDP starts to get out of sync so it starts retrying a lot<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: maybe the pipeline with OpenGL gets flooded with "I don't have that texture yet" messages?<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: which also spikes cpu on the server<br />
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: One need look no further than Wright Plaza to see the impact textures can have on rez time. Prims zip into existance. You can watch the texture queue grind for minutes.<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: which in turn leads to heavy thread use<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: if its bad enough it wont fully recover<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: yea but what was interesting<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: in OSCC Staff Zone i normally get like 50-60gps<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: when texture pipeline cuts off, even once everything loaded and was visible<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: my frame rate was like 10fps<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: at most<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interesting<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I wonder why<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: because the server has threads tied up<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: trying to reach texture pipeline<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, is opensim getting problems now LL is pulling more old udp type code out of the viewer. more work for tpv's to keep it in<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem like much of an issue<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: since the TPVs dont seem to be doing much anymore<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's what i guiessed<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: viewer development is very slow at the moment<br />
[11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: TPVs patch in their own little features onto the base code and cal it a day any more it seems.<br />
[11:32] Shy Robbiani: what needs to be changed to get the textures directly from robust? and does it mean, you cant do it if you are not the Grid owner, because the ports wont be open?<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: besides what LL is doing is not creating new stuff<br />
[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I don't think anyone is really digging at the rendering or trying to optimize stuff.<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: they are trying to make the grid run better on less hardware<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: so its not like we have to follow them at all anymore<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 raises an eyebrow<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I think most of the stuff LL is doing is preparing for the grid to get a lot smaller soon<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a year or two ago and you'd be burning at the stake for that statement :p<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: well I think they want to keep the grid alive<br />
[11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: We shouldn't follow them, either. SL is SL. Opensim has some legs now, it can take a path of its own and will almost certainly be better for it.<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but with considerably less staff<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 gets the marshmallows<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so I think that is their focus<br />
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Sl will be put into maintenence mode at some point. And that is most likely LL's current focus.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: shift the back end into something more managable by less people<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol, Aine. i still see stake's around<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right....they won't be generating the revenue to make it viable to have extensive back ends<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm....chat just froze, it seems<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: People not like to hear it. but SL start toi get EOL. so maintenence mode sound right in 1 or 2 years<br />
[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if they were continuing to develop, it never seems like SL is really growing any more.<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would think that when SL2.0 comes online to the masses they'll want to take a lot of existing SL hardware and use if for that<br />
[11:37] Shy Robbiani: a problem I see is that most viewers still depend on the code of Linden Lab<br />
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: If LL has any firing brain cells, they won't do anything to kill their golden goose yet. Not even the appearance of EOL if they can help it. Until Sansara is a reality and has traction, LL will make sure SL keeps ticking.<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya I doubt SL will go dark for a long time<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but no doubt in order to keep SL profitable<br />
[11:38] Mercalia Beck: maybe they open the hg gate to opensim lol<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: it means reducing staff considerably<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and fast<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: staff and/or capital/infrastructure investments<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but most will shift their interest to new technology<br />
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: SL will hang on for a long time I'm sure. But it'll pretty much exist for the more dedicated users who hang around.<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: the LL staff that is<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they will be moved to new projct<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br />
[11:39] Shy Robbiani: exactly<br />
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: There's always holdouts. We *still* have people popping into IRC complaining about how this or that won't work in Imprudence. ;)<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: omg<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya well a lot of people just wont have the hardware for the new grid<br />
[11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Of course. You always have holdouts for almost any situation lol<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: even if they want to<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: they wont be able to<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there are still people refusing to upgrade beyond 0.76<br />
[11:40] Mercalia Beck: me included<br />
[11:40] Mercalia Beck: as use DIv<br />
[11:40] Mercalia Beck: Diva<br />
[11:40] Mercalia Beck: and the .81 is crap<br />
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: At some point, you have to stop letting those ooold Intel GPUs holding you hostage against progress.<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i remember 0.76 not being good at all<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it had its moments<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hi mercelia<br />
[11:41] Mercalia Beck: well works better than the .81 in latest Diva<br />
[11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: Sl isn't the only option around now, though. VWs and sandbox games are becoming more common now.<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there was a lot less basic HG stuff that wasn't broken in 0.76 but is now<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i certainly dont think 0.7.6 is better than 0.8.1<br />
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: 0.76 still had the 4096 jump issue, for example. 0.8.1 got HELLA tested last yeat at OSCC. It's an awesome release.<br />
[11:41] Mercalia Beck: is<br />
[11:42] Mercalia Beck: mega in ,81 100% broken<br />
[11:42] Shy Robbiani nods towards Aine<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: mega will be removed soon<br />
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Megas are deprecated.<br />
[11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: It's been a while since I really saw a reason not to upgrade when a release came about.<br />
[11:42] Mercalia Beck: maybe<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: mega was always broke<br />
[11:42] Mercalia Beck: well in .81 is 200% broken<br />
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Even if they weren't deprectaed, they have *always* been an experimental feature. They were *never* promised to be stable.<br />
[11:42] Shy Robbiani: lol<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Megas were always a broken hack<br />
[11:42] Mercalia Beck: mine works very well<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: that was never complete<br />
[11:43] Mercalia Beck: smooth<br />
[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: I personally never recommended people use megas.<br />
[11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Mega was a kludge to get around the viewer limitations on region size. A neat hack, yes, but not something you really wanted to keep around longer than necessary.<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it wouid just be nice if there was a concerted effort at some point to fix a lot of the things that got broken with 0.8x<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I guess fixing isn't nearly as sexy as writing new bugs<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yea if you were to try Var regions<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Merecelia, use var's not mega's<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: you would never consider a mega ever again<br />
[11:43] Mercalia Beck: if and when var can do retangles then I move<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: vars are crap<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: never worked as well as vars do now<br />
[11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Migration from a mega to a var requires only a little effort.<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: sorry megas are crap<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: they never worked as well as vars do now<br />
[11:44] Mercalia Beck: when var can do rectangles then U move<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: That reminds me, is there a particular reason vars can't do rectangles, only square?<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Var's are no crap. normal sims are crap with the simborders. and extre cost of resources. running 9 simulators or only 1 with var. big difference<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there a technical reason why var can't do rectangles?<br />
[11:44] Shy Robbiani: a problem with vars are still the terrain textures<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: vars will never do that<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: its not possible<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ok. nebadon. lol<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: without major viewer changes<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: non square vars<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that is<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: because of how terrain is handled<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 3 watrer sims on var not take much resoiurce<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: its not possible<br />
[11:44] Mercalia Beck: so vars arre CRAP also<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...it's viewer end<br />
[11:45] Shy Robbiani: lol<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: technically megas didnt support non square either<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: unless you had no neighbors<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think official mega's did not support rectange too<br />
[11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: Go with a square, and Just make the unused portion sea. Problem solved.<br />
[11:45] Mercalia Beck: well my mega is 4x2<br />
[11:45] Mercalia Beck: and very nice<br />
[11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: So they won't do it in the forseeable future then. Viewer limits sometimes get fixed.<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea I am not going to argue with you Mercalia, but your argument isnt convincing at all<br />
[11:45] Shy Robbiani: right, but in general it's easy to stay isolated<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: vars are far superior to meags<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: saying otherwise tells me you never used a var<br />
[11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: 5 years ago when I was begging for actual regions bigger than 256 I got told that wouldn't happen. Go use a mega. :P<br />
[11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: So maybe rectangle vars will come eventually. But probably not for a good while.<br />
[11:46] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: Simcrossing with Vehicles are posible now ?????<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you a 3x3 var will run considerably better thna 2x3 mega<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: will use less resources<br />
[11:46] Mercalia Beck: hmm<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and support much more in terms of LSL<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: like the land functions<br />
[11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: Core devs are not oracles. ;) They work on what they need or what interests them at the time. And those needs/interests change.<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: terrain events<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: they dont work in Megas<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: never did, never will<br />
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Simcrossing with vehicles is coming in the Avination merge<br />
[11:47] Mercalia Beck: when diva move to .81 will look again<br />
[11:47] Mercalia Beck: to .82<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: vehicles are also far better in vars<br />
[11:47] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: Kaya<br />
[11:47] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: thx<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: yea, if you get stuck or have issues, be sure to ask for help<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: because from a technical perspective 0.8.1 should blow the doors off 0.7.6<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: however<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there are considerable ini changes<br />
[11:48] Mercalia Beck: in what way?<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and if you use old inis you may have issues<br />
[11:48] Mercalia Beck: I have a nice smooth tour boat working<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: oh 1000s of bugs fixed<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so many performance enhancements it would take days to list them all<br />
[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: Performance for one thing. 0.8.1 got load tested out the wazoo.<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: your talking about 2+ years of work<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: 0.7.6 is old<br />
[11:48] Mercalia Beck: i know<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 3 years now, isn't it<br />
[11:49] Mercalia Beck: but works<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or 3.5<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya very close to 3 actually<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: spring 0f 2011 iirc<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or was that the Chrstmas one<br />
[11:49] Mercalia Beck: as for viewer<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt alot of things have changed<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and some old bug work arounds may not work anymore<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately people tend to adopt bugs as features<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and when we fix them they get upset<br />
[11:50] Mercalia Beck: eg singulaity dont show maps of land where as Imprudence dows<br />
[11:50] Mercalia Beck: so much for progress<br />
[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't have that issue.<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: me either<br />
[11:50] OtakuMegane Desu: Maps of land?<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: just because you experience something doesnt mean everyone does<br />
[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: And if you're using 0.7.6, well... no wonder it works better with an older viewer.<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i never have map issues myself<br />
[11:50] Mercalia Beck: no here now<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: im on replex<br />
[11:51] Mercalia Beck: cant see lanf n map<br />
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have seen in noimral mapmode with singularity that terrain is issing. but always use warp3d at startup. that is working fine<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: which is old singularity<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: its really old<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and it works fine<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I see all the map tiles<br />
[11:51] Mercalia Beck: I have latest version<br />
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes singularity is running behinmd with updates<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i heard altest singularity is broken<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i thought<br />
[11:51] Shy Robbiani: I have map issues... but another kind of issue<br />
[11:51] OtakuMegane Desu: Same. I haven't run into map issues in recent memory.<br />
[11:51] Lucy Afarensis: Takes a while to load<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i would try the previous release of singularity<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and not the latest<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: anyway i see the maptiles from osgrid fine in singularity. i think i use 5627. checking<br />
[11:52] Mercalia Beck: seems to crash a lot also<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but osgrid use warp3d ?<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i also dont experience that, these things could all be local issues to your machine though too<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do have a question re OSG and Opensim....<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: singularity is pretty stable the one i use<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you what you are saying Mercalia doesnt sound like what i hear from the majority of OSgrid users<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Singularity Viewer (64 bit) 1.8.6 (6157)<br />
[11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: OSgrid uses whatever simops configure. ;) I use the old maptile generator, and not warp3d myswlf.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont doubt you are having issues<br />
[11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: I'm on the 6583 Alpha for Sing. Haven't bothered to go further especially hearing the latest one have a bunch of issues<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but it sounds potentially like some may be local issues<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: not wide spread ones<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is not uncommon at all<br />
[11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: doesnt the viewer have two ways to get maps, the old udp way and new http way?<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I am assuming that OSG is not intending to update your profiles module anytime soon so is there some way to have Opensim *not* choke on an OSG user visiting a grid that uses core (V2) profiles?<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know Aine, I know I dont have the time for that<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: currently it can generate hundreds or even thousands of lines of errors on HG login<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to ask the other admins<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its possible we could fix the non core groups<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so they work better together<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if OSG isn't intending to change ti would be nice to be able to have Opensim *not* choke on it<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that would be the beter thing to do I think<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: PLugh was doing some tweaking to flotsam groups recently.<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea we talked about it breifly<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i havent had any time to work on much in terms of opensim<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (though would be better from a useful testing perspective if OSG were actually running core code)<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: between my job and OSCC coming up fast<br />
[11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: Basically, pester Plugh. >:)<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i wont have time for much until after the first of the year<br />
[11:55] Kayaker Magic: There is an OSCC coming up? When?<br />
[11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: December.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: December 5th, watch for annoucements any day<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: osgrid need to switch to V2<br />
[11:55] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: YES TRUE<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus there is no gauranteee that would improve it<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yup. but then there's a reason to improve it :)<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I cant say for sure core profiles will hold up to such large grid<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would be useful if OSG did, but it might not be feasible....the main thing is to reduce the extremely heavy hit on an OSG HG user visiting another grid<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any OSG person who enters one of my sims causes a massive spike<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs more or less any other grid is no problem at all<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I would prefer to fix profiles v1 to be more compatible<br />
[11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: Remeber OSG people, HG to Aine's sims often. >:)<br />
[11:58] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: thanks for Infos, Bye<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: im kind of suprised there would be any kind of performance hit though<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i mean sure its noisy, but id need more convincing its actually a performance issue<br />
[11:58] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: in the advanced menu there is an option to use web map tiles, if thats disabled it might cause maps to not work with newer sims<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: depends on their inventory and folder structure<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i havent experienced any performance issues teleporting to Encitra grid or Avacon grid from OSgrid<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interesting....chat just ate 2 lines that I typed<br />
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: Wright may need a kick when we're done. ;)<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: chats seemed ok here for me, maybe getting lucky though<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yea im not even logged into console to look at it<br />
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: I have had occasional chat lag, but no lost msgs.<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mostly chat is fine....just once in a while it drops<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt restart it today<br />
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: Speakig of done, we're at the hour mark. Just FYI. :)<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: chat is one of those finicky things<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: that local lag / packet loss can make chat seem laggy when its not for anyone else<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyone...someone with a very large flat inventory is a major killer when coming from OSG<br />
[12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Chat is all UDP, ain't it?<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: im not even sure<br />
[12:00] Shy Robbiani: chat looks ok to me right now<br />
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: Lunchtime here, bye.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: I have a huge inventory<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: larger than most<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it will generate 1000's of error messages<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, not to be too sad about chat lag. it still happens in SL too<br />
[12:00] Shy Robbiani: bye Kayaker<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: but this is one of those wierd things<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yours probably isn't flat though<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: where Aine and I had very similar setups<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but you had all kinds of issues I couldnt experience<br />
[12:01] Lucy Afarensis: flat?<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lots of root level folders<br />
[12:01] Lucy Afarensis: ah...<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: instead of a nice hierarchy<br />
[12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: More lube on your ethernet cables. That's the ticket.<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: my inventory is a complete disaster<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: im probably in the top 10 worst inventories<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if someone enters the region with inventory wind open it has to fetch detials of those folders<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and those throw errors to console when it's an OSG user<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I know though that Firestorm and Replex handle inventory a bit differently<br />
[12:02] Lucy Afarensis: i could compete withyou on that neb<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i never use firestorm, not ever<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the errors are profile-related for some weird reason<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: yea errors on console doesnt necesariily mean its the cause<br />
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: OSgrid's HG has been.. weird for a while now. It hasn't (and can't) use all the latest HG stuff last I knew.<br />
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: try the SL viewer neb. and you will change your mind<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: those errors could be a result of the actual problem<br />
[12:03] Mercalia Beck kommt in Chat-Reichweite (15.93 m).<br />
[12:03] Shy Robbiani: FS still works best for me, on both, SL and Opensim<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: which is very much more likely to be the case many times<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Singularity is my opensim viewer. FS is pure for SL<br />
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Remember, open grids are a anomaly, and stuff like this is the price we pay for having them.<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's definitely related to folder structure though<br />
[12:04] Mercalia Beck: well tried 2 older viewer still no map<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: well I recall there being something about Firestorm in particular<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: that was kind of nasty<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i forget now completely<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because when an OSG visitor first opens their inventory while in a region I see the flood of errors<br />
[12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Nulll GUID folder id thingy, I think<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but firestorm did stuff other viewers did not do<br />
[12:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: Mercalia, in advanced settings, make sure the option to use web map tiles is checked<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: Aine yes<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: that is different<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...that's the one I'm referring to<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: when you see that it is becasue someone logged into osgrid with cache clear<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and teleported before inventory<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: because of the nature of HG security<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: this is not a OSG issue<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: this will happen on ALL grids<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its just you likely get more people from OSG triggering it<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: which isnt surprising<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we do have a lot of users<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ture<br />
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Too bad we can't prevent HG TPs until inventory is loaded.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we may eventually<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: although surprising I don't see it happening from any other grid<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we discussed it<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: but other things have to happen first<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: or we already would<br />
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: A "please wait" modal wouldn;t be the worst thing if it prevents bigger problems.<br />
[12:06] Mercalia Beck: dont see enable map tiles<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Aine it may just mean OSgrid users have the biggest inventories<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: and other grid users dont clear cache as often<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is very test kind of oriented<br />
[12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 chuckles<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: cache clearing is like daily prayer here<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: face east and clear your cache at noon<br />
[12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: lol<br />
[12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for a "very test grid" you don't test a lot of core services.....<br />
[12:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: Mercalia, advanced dropdown, option is called "Use web maptiles" (singularity)<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: aine exactly 2 services<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: Groups and Profiles<br />
[12:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: users that clear cache much. mabye the need to increase the cache size ?<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: which are relatively new to core<br />
[12:08] Mercalia Beck: ah<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise almost everything we use is in core now<br />
[12:08] Mercalia Beck: ta<br />
[12:08] Marcus Llewellyn gently reminds people that this is an OpenSim meeting, and not an OSG town hall. :)<br />
[12:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: Mercalia, map is working now?<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-06Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-062015-10-25T23:01:11Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:04] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: now that the r/xxxxxx numbers have been removed, is there some way to easily look up a commit number to find out what it refers to?<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't have to remind nebadon about the meeting this week. :)<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Wow. Some people actually use the stairs to get up here?<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Justin uses to do the stairs a lot<br />
[11:08] Sheera Khan: just probing the physics<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
[11:08] vegaslon plutonian uses the stairs<br />
[11:08] Shy Robbiani: I didn't find a tp<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I did use the stairs myself my first few times.<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: You just fly up and come in via the balcony. No TP.<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oh the stairs.... it's like a vic20. it's nice but slow<br />
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't even fly iin. I just sit immediately after TP.<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yea im usually late so no time for the stairs<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:09] Sheera Khan: or use the cam and sit ...<br />
[11:09] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: There have been more talks for OSCC, its definitely happening in December<br />
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Yay!<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: so anyone looking to help out keep an eye out for announcements<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: cool<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: nothing official has gone out yet, lots of preplanning going on<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What set of stress testing do you want to do this time to get ready?<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: will be different format this year<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: single day event<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure we are going to have a lot of time for stress tests<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: we might get in 2-3 of them<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but i suspect we wont need much tuning this year<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it should run quite well, as good as last year<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: without much change<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it will be a smaller less complicated venue<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, a lot of tuning went from the last couple rounds of stress testingtesting<br />
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: The avination merge is the only concern I can think of. If OSCC grid stays with a version that predates that, it should be just as stable as last year.<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: s/went/went in/<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: time is short this year, but we didnt want to skip it<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we are cutting it down, but it will still be a full day and lots too do<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: plus plenty of time to explore things for a few weeks after<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: I will let everyone know once its official and we are asking for helpers<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: suprissed you do OSCC this year<br />
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn would like to be on the stream team again. :) IIf it will be streamed.<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yes it will be streamed<br />
[11:13] Shy Robbiani: great<br />
[11:14] Sheera Khan: could we set up a streaming service less filled with commercials?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on how much funds we can raise<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: generally you have to pay for commercial free and its not cheap<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you have 100s of potential watchers too<br />
[11:15] Shy Robbiani: will the streams be recorded for later review?<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: we will archive everything<br />
[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: What is the stream hosted on usually?<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: is the site<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its still pointing to last years stuff<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but you can see what last year was about :)<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and something with youtube ? mabye my memory is bguu but did the not have something new ?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: we will be looking for similar types of vollunteers as past years though<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: some builders, greeters, organizers etc..<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, youtube seems a bad idea<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to experiment more with youtube<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: whatever works best though<br />
[11:18] Chris.Weymann @grid.chris-weymann.de:8002: jup<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt youtube can handle large loads of people<br />
[11:18] Chris.Weymann @grid.chris-weymann.de:8002: and youtube livestreaming is not aviable in germany -.-<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: that is good to know<br />
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Youtube streaming is nice when it works. Frustrating when it dowsn't. It's in beta right now, and for a reason.<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Beta or Alpha ?<br />
[11:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i see everyone using twitch now for streaming, but that probably has ads?<br />
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm livestreaming right now. it's dependability is highly variable.<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: twitch that's the name yes<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you can pay not to have ads<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: it is very dependant on how much funds are raised<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: in such a short time i suspect we may be dealing with ads<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you never know though<br />
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: UStream was problematic last year. :/<br />
[11:20] Shez Oyen: Can you choose the ads?<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think so<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you either pay to have control or use free service with no control<br />
[11:21] Sheera Khan: if the videos are on the website for later viewing that should be ok ...<br />
[11:21] Sheera Khan: I'd take a look at them later then ^^<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: generally all the services just push your archive to youtube<br />
[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, depends where the ads are. possible not see them anyway but free betetr then nothing<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: or let you download a mp4 or something<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: rarely to the streaming services do the archivng as well<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: usually a pay for service as well<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya the archives would not have the commercials<br />
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Ideally, whomever does the stream will also do a local recording. That's just best, as every online service I've tried can be quirky about archiving in one way or another.<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: just the live event<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we are shooting for first week of december<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: will have more official details soon though<br />
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: The last week would be insane. ;)<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya<br />
[11:24] Sheera Khan: I could provide some bandwidth for the videos if needed<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: Avacon has the FCVW in February so we couldnt really push it after<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: unless we wait until like spring<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I nstill think there's more news next year<br />
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I think it's kind of now or never for a 2015 OSCC<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: with the trimmed down event, and not having to build venues<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yuo. only 3 months left :LO<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: we just reuse last years venue as much as possible<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: we should be fine<br />
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Can't have it much later than December as it will be 2016 before long.<br />
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year's were ver, very nice.<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a nice build<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i just upgraded linux on that server<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: should run well<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: as good as the osgrid plazas<br />
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Which mon on it?<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the trick is to use the right mono<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I know event plaza has been uses extensively<br />
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: mono rather<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: and does well<br />
[11:27] vegaslon plutonian: what is everyones thoughts about restricting OsNpcCreate to not be able to create npc from a uuid of user in region by default and have to change a ini setting to make it possible again?<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I don't see a problem with that myself<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: default i think iot's safer to not let everybody create NPC<br />
[11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: That's already the case, vegaslon. You hace to enable the OSSL that lets you copy anther's appearance.<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: would need to pose that question to the -dev email list<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: for a up / down vote<br />
[11:28] vegaslon plutonian: this is another layer to that<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: what is the benefit?<br />
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: There are seperate commands for copying an agent's or owner's appearance. Just disable the former.<br />
[11:28] vegaslon plutonian: it is how avination is doing it and how it is set to be in the avinationmerge branch<br />
[11:28] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: marcus: out of curiosity, what mono would be est'?<br />
[11:28] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: best<br />
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm the wrong person to ask, Tom. :) I've been sticking with 3.2.* on my linux boxen. I haven't kept up with the newer stuff.<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I use Mono 4 myself<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what sort of plans are being made for the eventual general/public release of the Avination code merge as far as having various grids/regions upgrade to it?<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: mono 3.12+ is good<br />
[11:30] vegaslon plutonian: also have it restricted to any npc that has a name can not be sensored as a avatar without changing an ini setting and any named npc will have to join a npc group to have an aditional tag<br />
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Mono 4 does have that MS OSS stuff rolled in.<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is testing some of it already<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: any grid wanting to test it can already do so now<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch in git<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: its already public<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then it will be unable to TP to any other region that isn't running it, correct?<br />
[11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: Mono 4 works but I seem to hear little bugs and such coming up regularly enough still. 3.12+ is pretty solid and tested.<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not at the moment<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: I have it running on sisyphus here<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i just teleported here from there<br />
[11:31] snik.snoodle @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hi hun<br />
[11:31] Dani.Rose @danirose.ddns.net:9000: hi you!<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: work is still ongoing and things could change<br />
[11:31] Dani.Rose @danirose.ddns.net:9000: hehehe<br />
[11:31] Sheera Khan: and your avatar is still with you *giggles*<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so there won't be a block to being able to tp from one to the other after all?<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but if you are interested in the transiton the best thing to do is run the code and follow updates<br />
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: we can tp to and from avnmerge code<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I think there may Aine, right now there is not<br />
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't update to something that is going to make it impossible for people to get to me or me to get to them<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I can not say for sure at this point which way things will go<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you may not have much of a choice<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if others update and you dont<br />
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is why I was asking about deployment plans<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I cant speak for any grid<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I cant even speak for OSgrid<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: we only control a small portion of the regions<br />
[11:33] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: so there might be a danger of a fork then? people refusing to upgrade, spliiting the metaverse in two<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: how other grids deploy is up to them<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I suspect so<br />
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: hmm ?<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: we wont hold back code development for any particular grid though<br />
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: why a fork ?<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the metaverse is already in like 86 peices<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: soo ya<br />
[11:34] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: :)<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: People that fork or not upgrade. make it only harder for themself. by using old not compatible stuff<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but currently most of the metaverse is able to move about relatively well between those islands<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: with more bugs<br />
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: there where several changes already in past that made regions incompatible...<br />
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: There have been a couple break points in the past that made things a bit rough but it really wasn't that huge a problem in the end. Most everyone upgraded and life went on.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunately its going to happen, and being that no one has control over the entire metaverse<br />
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: that may happen again, but thats no reason for forks<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: there is absolutely nothing we can do to insure there wont be some bumps<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its just technically not possible<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: these things could happen accidetilly even at this point<br />
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: a last partial one was about large regions tp limitations...<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: glossing over bugs for years does not help development<br />
[11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone running HG enabled grids/regions and who really wants to have people be able to HG TP in/out should be paying attention to what is happening on in OS.<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It's strange. if SL break code or things with changes the nosie is not so high. If OS change code to make it more SL. The earh explode<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we are however doing a lot of testing<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: a future one maybe because of new wearable types<br />
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Andrew<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: to try to minimize the pain, the sooner you get involved in testing the less shockuing things will be come time for the hard decisions<br />
[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Other than just not wanting to try out brand new changes, what reasons would there be for not simply upgrading in this case?<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: current code made the number of wearable types a protocol restriction<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ubit wh\at large TP limitation ?<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: fear of the unknown is silly<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: isolation<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if 90% of the metaverse can't get to you and visa versa....<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or at present, 99%<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Aine we will do whatever we can to help you transition<br />
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: And people who're apparantly just wholly allergic to performing upgrades chose the wrong software project.<br />
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if there's a blocker of that nation<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, indeed<br />
[11:38] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: iḿ just imagining how this will pan out.. i usually follow updates, but only after a while to see if there's serious bugs that show up<br />
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: old version regions may crash if you tp thre with new wearebles types<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lets deal with problems as they arise, not try to imagine what may happen and then choose to not act because of something we assume may happen<br />
[11:38] Shez Oyen: ::cough:: Marcus<br />
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: 0.8.2 will just silently fail the tp<br />
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: TP Protocol bumps will smack some people in the face. But like OtakuMegane said, they'll upgrade, and life will go on.<br />
[11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: At least it's not so bad as earlier days when you logged in and wondered what/when something would break that day. :P<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no one will be a lone in their quest though<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br />
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: The sit reposition was a similar event. People redid builds, life went on.<br />
[11:39] Shez Oyen: Neb is the one available for download on the OSG website now the one we are testing?<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no if you want to test right now you have to pull code from git<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and compile it yourself<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think if you always did upgrade. the smack is only a waterballoon oin worse case<br />
[11:40] Shez Oyen: lol<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it requires Robust running that version as well?<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: dev is moving to fast right now for test branch releases<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Aine, no<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is running core robust<br />
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: The avinantionmerge branch will perform a DB migration! Do a DB backup if you're testing it on a live region, or use a new region instead!<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya its always smart to have backups<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i would hope everyone is doing regular backups<br />
[11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: As longh as it's well-tested and functional I don't think most will have an issue with upgrading. Always some holdouts or the odd cases where someone isn't really active, their region is sorta on autopilot.<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: for important work<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: if not prepare for pain eventually :)<br />
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: <_< >_><br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i use oar. only wish the wrong grid url on asset copuld be fixt<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it could, but it requires db mod<br />
[11:42] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: what is the timeline anyway? for the avinationmerge branch to go into master?<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: when its ready :)<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say we have a lot to do and a lot to test<br />
[11:42] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: personally, I use the metropolis version of opensim, so i'd have to wait for them to upgrade<br />
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, i tried it. but afraid it's on the grid side wrong too<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I would not suggest anyone who is doing anything serious try to use this branch right now<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: things may get broken, its hard to predict<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but have fun beating it up :)<br />
[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Anyone who wants a stable experience should be sticking with stable binary releases. Period.<br />
[11:43] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: of course :)<br />
[11:44] Shy Robbiani: You could give it a try on the Metropolis Test grid, Tom<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: any idea when 0.8.2 comes ?<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: even with the pain, ultimately it is worth it<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a ton of improvements<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that far out weigh the pain<br />
[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: the avination merge might deserve a 0.9 release, IMO.<br />
[11:45] Sheera Khan: Tom, I guess Metro admins will be fairly uick to provide an update<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lucky. i only use plain opensim<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: OSGrid, Metro are pretty much plain opensim<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: just preconfigured to connect to those services<br />
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: a few modules for seasoning. ;)<br />
[11:46] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: my production servers all run the metropolis version, but on my laptop i play with the master and avination branch sometimes<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is very experimental with our releases<br />
[11:46] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: but itś mostly the configuration i want.. there's so many options, and the metro distro has all those set right :)<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: they are always the latest code<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: most grids do not and should not adhere to that<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid does it so others do not have to<br />
[11:47] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: nebadon: being pretty new but isn osgrid set up just for that?<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well originally yes<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: now it is more than that<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but we do try to be the tip of the spear so to speak<br />
[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: Not that other grids shouldn't test master. It is awesome when they do that and provide feeback. But they will wisely keep that to a few test sims.<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how will you test the core services that OSG doesn't run?<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: yea anyone is free and encouraged to test the latest code<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I am just saying you really shouldnt rely on git master in production environment<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its risky<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (profiles, etc)<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we have other grids<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: encitra, avacon, OSCC<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: plus others will test<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant test everything :)<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: that is why its better to get involved sooner then later<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: takes out some of the sting<br />
[11:50] Shy Robbiani: the Metropolis Test grid provides nightly updates of the actual development... it's vanilla Opensim code without Metro-specific code<br />
[11:50] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: as long as the protocol doesn't change the various services are reasonably well separated<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Problem with testing master is that it still doesn't seem to catch issues until the code is used on the main grid.<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is nice because we have such a diverse group of people<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: we have most of the bases covered when it comes to testing<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we know very quickly when something breaks<br />
[11:51] Shez Oyen: lol<br />
[11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: "Why can't I TP" "Can anyone else TP" "Is LBSA down? I can't TP?" Etc, etc, etc. etc<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: well that and we dont upgrade the entire grid at once<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: so its not so hard to fall back<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone mentioned modules. I've been using the OpenSimBirds module in a couple of regions. The people who have seen it in use just love it.<br />
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: You get a pretty wide variaety of versions and configurations on OSGrid<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: an upgrade on OSgrid rarely means being locked out of the grid entirely<br />
[11:52] vegaslon plutonian: I heard that bird module leaks memory<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: vegaslon: I haven't checked. The regions get restarted daily.<br />
[11:52] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: some birds tend to leak ;-)<br />
[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: all the codez leek memoareez.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSiv<br />
[11:53] Shy Robbiani: lol<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, :D<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interestingly Win 10 seems to be a lot better at getting some of that back<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my regions have been using waaaaaaay less memory since I updated<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, updated from what to what?<br />
[11:54] vegaslon plutonian: well they are bound to do something besides change the coat of paint<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Win7 to Win10.....everythign else unchanged<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: oh<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: RAM use dropped by about 67%<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ah thats probably just newer .net<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: more than windows version itself<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: don't *think* my .NET version changed although perhaps it did<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but was pretty surprising<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: im sure the latest .net is extremely optimized<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: dropping from ~2 GB of RAM down to will under 1GB<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: on one sim it dropped from using just over 700MB to using about 175MB<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya there was a .net upgrade right around widows 10 release<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so was quite a shock<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but im sure the kernel helps too<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Windows 10 has been fairly good experience<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: though on my laptop there is a Windows update that will not install<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, for me too, once I disabled most of its spying activities<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and may possibly be jamming up other updates<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: KB3093266<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Let me guess the windows edge flash update<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: seems like the entire planet is having trouble with it<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: the Cumulitive Update<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3093266<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: many people are stuck<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not sure if i have one stuck. it seems it fixt itself later<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried everything it wont go<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: some people are saying its better without it anyway<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: other than that Windows 10 has been good<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: as good or beter than 8.1 was<br />
[12:00] Shy Robbiani: just updated two Windows 10 boxes today without any issues<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive upgraded about 1/2 dozen laptops now<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: WIn10 certainly boots faster.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: mine was the only one that had some trouble<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh yes. on sssd i think 15-20 seconbds. no time to get my drinks etc.<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's including bios<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: my dads lenovo was soo slow on windows 10<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: until i patched the bios<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: even without SSD it starts faster. Takes longer sometimes to do the actual log in.<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: now its nice and fast<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: win8 where already fast<br />
[12:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: isn't that the trick with win10? they just boot up nothing, then when you log in they actually start everything<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: thats kind of been that way since Windows NT Tom<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: that was on of the big selling points of NT<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, could be. Linux is a bit like that too. A lot of user related stuff only starts after you log in.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: they have just been refining it over the years<br />
[12:03] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew: actually, with that systemd abomination, things like your webserver won't even start until it gets a request....<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? Haven't heard that before.<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: That seems kind of stupic.<br />
[12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ealier that was what inetd was for ^^<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sounds not logic<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: -c +d<br />
[12:04] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah :)<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: my server runs systemd, i havent even noticed<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i dont go that deep though<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i imagine for someone who is set in thier ways<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its like going from windows to mac<br />
[12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and my pc is running systemd and apache as well...<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: my webserver is already running and since I only put it to sleep or hibernate it is always there when i wake it up.<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: you want to punch things<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I don't see that behaviour though<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, :)<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's only bug in win10. use hibernate. not sleep. it seems to assign to the wrong screen when it's awake. also soemtimes the second screen is not detected or some problem like that<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'm still not convinced of the worth of systemd. I still don't like having lost runlevels. They were also useful.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i am running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed with new KDE Plasma 5 on my workstation<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: its really nice<br />
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: KDE always did look pretty.<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/tumbleweed_desktop_002.png<br />
[12:07] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: xmonad all the way here :) fancy distracting window managers....<br />
[12:08] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: good luck with all the merging and stuff! i'll see if and where i can help out (w/ oscc too)<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe I will have more info about OSCC next week<br />
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. that hour went by quickly.<br />
[12:09] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ok well if no one else needs me for anything I think I am going to get going as well, eat and work :) fun stuff<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-29Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-292015-10-25T23:00:43Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
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<div><pre><br />
[11:00] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: i think that can be useful to opensim to not only to the asp.net apps... maybe that will fix all the compatibility problems related to mono but im not sure<br />
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. My cat is calling for me. :P<br />
[11:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe<br />
[11:01] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br />
[11:02] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br />
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I don't see nebadon online so I can't remind him about the meeting<br />
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. I have a cat calling for me (at the worst time, as always)<br />
[11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: I nominate Shez to chair the meeting. ;)<br />
[11:03] Shez Oyen: Yer so fuunnnie<br />
[11:03] Shez Oyen: :p<br />
[11:04] vegaslon plutonian: not much of a turn out<br />
[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: We forgot to advertise free donuts.<br />
[11:05] Shez Oyen: Hey Rich :)<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi shez<br />
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back.<br />
[11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Until the next feline emergency. ;)<br />
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: vegas, it does vary from week to week<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew<br />
[11:06] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: woo<br />
[11:06] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: exist a way to manipulate the content of a child non scripted prim with a script on the root? manipulate mean get/set data like name key... thx for the answer<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i wish opensim did support normal fbx<br />
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: llSetLinkPrimitiveParams<br />
[11:07] Shez Oyen: There's Aine :)<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves...sorry I'm late<br />
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: I mean llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast! never use the slow version.<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Crashed Firestorm (again)<br />
[11:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: fbx, i used that in Poser 1.0 hehe<br />
[11:08] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: not the child prim but its inventory<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: and my cat is still calling for me. Grr...<br />
[11:08] vegaslon plutonian: can not edit inventory even when in the root prim<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: web, you mean this ? http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetPrimitiveParams#llSetLinkPrimitiveParams<br />
[11:08] Marcus Llewellyn: FBX isn't documented anywhere. It's a closed format. It's been reverse engineered with some success, but any work on that would really fall on viewer developers.<br />
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: As I understand it, it's the viewer that parses mesh uploads.<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dae is fine to, as long we get rid of the 8 material limit<br />
[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: The 8 material limit isn't a collada limitation. It's a limitation of the LL protocol.<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd prefer a mesh format that didn't degenerate everything in to trianges.<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: triangles<br />
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: You'd like ngon support?<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: while we're dreaming....one that allows double-sided faces too<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: STEP or IGES format would be nice. :)<br />
[11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: monogame uses fbx and is opensource, it has a converter<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and user defined armatures<br />
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Double sided poly is a render limitation. Again... that's a viewer issue really.<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and animation of objects<br />
[11:11] vegaslon plutonian: 8 materials already is up to 24 textures loaded at a time from one object<br />
[11:11] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: no no , for eg, rez 2 prims and link them , place a script in the root and the texture on the inventory of the child one and set the texture with script on the root all sides from the content of the child<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, being able to address the inventory of a child prim would be very nice<br />
[11:12] Hippo Finesmith: sorry im late :|<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: although there are lots of work-arounds with llMessageLinked<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's a nuisance<br />
[11:12] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: llSetLinkPrimitiveParams dont have the inventory types :(<br />
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: LSL is a nuisance. ;)<br />
[11:13] vegaslon plutonian: there is also always the trick of sending a script to the child prim to get its inventory and then having the script delete itself<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the real time visual quality of the latest Unity 5 demo is mind-blowing<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would kill for even half that quality level<br />
[11:14] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (presses MakerBot, inputs data for quantum diamond computer...)<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, the 8 face limit is really annoying. but then y ou still hav e the camera after that. and the avatars that are to big<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, But what level machine and graphics card do you need?<br />
[11:14] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (makerbot replicates a DeBeers mining rig )<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I gather it works on relatively low-end cards<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no idea how<br />
[11:15] vegaslon plutonian: ya they are baking alot of stuff though before the level even loads<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, I suspect that's how they're handling it<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: whataever they're doing, it's pretty astounding quality<br />
[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: That is kind of the issue SL/OS have always had: 100% dynamic world. You can't really bake or pre-render anything<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not at the level of a pure render, but pretty darn good<br />
[11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Aside from existing textures<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, that's the challenge<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I tend to think there are optimizations in it that aren't being leveraged by the viewers<br />
[11:17] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh the viewers could be improved drastically. I don't think anyone doubts that.<br />
[11:18] vegaslon plutonian: nebadon will tell you, take some of the stuff this veiwer takes and stick it in unity and it will choke<br />
[11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Takes a lot of work and you'd ultimately have to cut off some of the very old/low end when moving to newer standards.<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think SL/OS viewers are still only working with old openGL too<br />
[11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: ^<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: You would want a viewer that is meant for OS only so it doesn't have to be limited by SL compatibility<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think so too....I think there are a lot of card-side optimizations that aren't been used<br />
[11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: LL kept the viewers compatible with some very old tech. The tradeoff is perfomance and features in the rendering.<br />
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: They added some OpenGl 3.* support a while back, prolly around the mesh alha/beta. But likely they only did as much as they absolutely had to.<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: AM curious what imprudence people are going todo in SL , when UDP is gone.<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'd also dearly love to be able to use the occasional texture >1024 resolution<br />
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: It's possible to do that, Aine.<br />
[11:19] vegaslon plutonian: they did cut off some compatablity when they released veiwer 2, had to get a new cpu<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but of course allowing that will tend to lead people to use *all* higher rez textures<br />
[11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Larger textures wouldn't be hard. The viewer can aactually handle them already, you just can't upload or work with them properly<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think only allow >1024 for UV maps would be usefull. but i hate uv-maps<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is that a viewer-side or sim-side thing?<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: But the size is getting hugh otaku<br />
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: You can't upload them with the viewer, no. But they can be uploaded with other tools.<br />
[11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Some of the crashers in SL are simply very large textures that overload the viewer.<br />
[11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Kind of like the old hueg.jpg<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so the field size in the databse isn't limited?<br />
[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i found the any key ! [[http://core0.staticworld.net/images/idge/imported/imageapi/2014/10/08/19/slide_das-620x468-100508631-orig.jpg]]<br />
[11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: I've uploaded textures up to 4096 in size, just as an experiment. They work fine.<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interesting<br />
[11:22] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: file size?<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how did you upload them?<br />
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I even have one or two 2048's on one of my regions. Mesh builds that could make efficient use of that resolution.<br />
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, not with sl viewer<br />
[11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: The viewers just aren't made to allow it by default. It's an arbitrary limitation as far as I know, though.<br />
[11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: Just like the 10 second sound limit<br />
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I used the image uploader that comes with libomv. It requires that you edit the code to allow a larger size. It's a trivial change.<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...so something I lack the necessary skills to do<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: too bad<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Like the old viewer limit on prim size<br />
[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, until LL put the limit server side too. ;)<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Of course, LL maanged to bug things up every so often and the megaprim sets were created in that window<br />
[11:25] Hippo Finesmith: hey vegaslon mind if i pm you after the meeting?<br />
[11:25] vegaslon plutonian: sure<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: on the subject of textures....is there any particular reason that sizing is forced to ^2?<br />
[11:25] Hippo Finesmith: thanks<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: something related to efficiency?<br />
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't know for sure, but I presume that's a limitation of the j2K library the viewer uses.<br />
[11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: I think it's something with OpenGL? I read once the explanation but forgot now<br />
[11:26] Oliver Grashnar: about the comments regarding unity wouldnt google nacl be a better option (less restrictive) and how they made unity anyway ?<br />
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: It is *very* annoying to me that I can't use 386 or 768 textures.<br />
[11:26] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, graphics cards require 2^ sizes, maybe not newer ones tho<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ah<br />
[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Especially for things like the OSSL dynamic texure functions.<br />
[11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm...<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's just sooooooo many commericial textures I use are 600x600, 800x800 or 900x900<br />
[11:26] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: 2^ fits with memory sizes, 128, 256 etc<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it's a PITA to have to scale them before upload<br />
[11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: Ok, it is/was a graphics card/driver limitation. Apparently newer ones can handle a wider range of sizes and I should think even non-compliant sizes could be scaled before getting shunted to the card anyway.<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: particularly with seamless since the scaling doesn't *always* result in a seamless tile<br />
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Could just be another arbitrary limitation or something imposed by the graphics cards<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: or viewers<br />
[11:29] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: no andrew, its because at hardware level most things memory, buses etc work in powers of 2<br />
[11:30] OtakuMegane Desu: From what I'm gathering it was a technical limitation/performance issue but isn't always now unless you're using old engines or want to retain compatibility.<br />
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: An limitation to optimize things for old hardware then. Not needed these days.<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess I'm wondering if seemingly arbitrary limitations like that are ones that could be disabled/ignored in Opensim much as prim sizing was<br />
[11:31] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: got this problem and fix it with a directX update... not related to opensim - old nvidia GF7600GS<br />
[11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: The texture ^2 thing might be more problematic but things like prim size, texture size and sound length are entirely arbitrary. A bit of code tweaking would remove them.<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: Power of 2 isn't gonna go away... that's permanent. But it could be finer grained. Right now we have limits at 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024. But there are other possible sizes that satisfy ^2, like 768.<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: code tweaking of the viewer or of Opensim? (or both?)<br />
[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: The viewer<br />
[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I can only guess the viewers haven't removed that because of SL rules or something.<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...ty<br />
[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: That's all viewer. OpenSim could give a rats patootie about the resolution of an image asset.<br />
[11:33] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: openJPEG too is an old version...<br />
[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I know LL chose the 10 second sound limit for example for legal reasons involving fair use.<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume many also related to reasonable expectations of bandwidth available....based on internet technology 15 years ago<br />
[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: When it comes to audio assets, we do need support for longer ones. We also need support for OGM/MP3/ACC. A PCM WAV in 2015 is just obscene.<br />
[11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: Texture size would probably be a case of that.<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or user hardware....of 15 years go<br />
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Much older GPUs could actually choke on large textures.<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Seems there still people that use imprudence. so old hardware.. uhmm<br />
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Especially if you had numerous ones at once<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: imprudence doesnt support mesh does it?<br />
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: BUt that was like P4 days<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in the end though, it would be nice if that was a region designer's choice<br />
[11:36] vegaslon plutonian: the way we use sounds in opensim mono audio makes sense<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think GPU memory is a problem. still valid and big textures trigger texture trashing faster<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you want to make a sim that kills people with older hardware that's a design choice<br />
[11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Imp does not do mesh. It doesn't so a lot of things at this point.<br />
[11:36] Oliver Grashnar: what about those with phones/tablets and like lumiya viewer ?<br />
[11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, a big enough texture will still cause issues but something like 2048 x 2048 should be fine. It's uncommon to come across images much larger than that anyway.<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: throw it away and use good harder :P<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hardware<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 4000x4000 and 4096x4096 are quite common in mapped stuff<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then it's 1 texture coving a whole larger mesh<br />
[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: 2048 is really suitable for things like texture atlases, where you have a multiple UV maps for multiple objectsmaterials baked to a single image.<br />
[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Even that should be fine now, though haveing a lot of them would probably drag down low-end hardware<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but again, let it be a design decision rather than an enforced limit<br />
[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br />
[11:38] Oliver Grashnar: +2<br />
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: +1<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my own home (personal) region would destroy someone with low end graphics card<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I don't care since I'm the only one using it<br />
[11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: Prim size can be limited server-side in OS if region owners have issues with that and SL does too so there's 0 reason to still have a viewer lock. That's one thing.<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: better woudl be if the viewer rescale it depends on hardware. but then you see something bad mabye<br />
[11:40] Oliver Grashnar: hey best of both worlds why not offer the viewer a low res option via ffmpeg that way maintaining backward support ?<br />
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Newer viewers do support texture compression.<br />
[11:40] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (thinks hard limits are a business decision to enforce useablility by the general public at the expense of gamer rigs)<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of limits in viewers are inherited from SL since most use the SL viewer code as a base.<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the SL viewers are not optimized at all, i have good hardware. but shadows on .. no preferrable not.because frameratddrops and things get less smooth.<br />
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: There are very real practical reasons to limit texxture sizes. Personally, I'd prefer that the limit was removed from viewers, but enforced server side.<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, I look at it as a case of if I decide to go insane in a region I'm building and the result is people with lower end cards will have a terrible visit, that's my problem....<br />
[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: There could be an INI setting like maxtexturesize = 1024<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I make it horrid for too many people they won't recommend it or visit again<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs if I make it okay for enough people, that's fine<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I can live with "excluding" the bottom end<br />
[11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if a viewer limit is left on textures 1024 is holdover from long ago. 2048 or 4096 could be done easily now. And if people really want to use larger textures, there are other ways to get them uploaded anyway<br />
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone pointed out the other day about abuse of texture sizes. Use of a 512x512 texture on a tiny button on a piece of clothing.<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: much as anyone who builds with mesh right now is excluding poeple with non-mesh viewers<br />
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: It also doesn't help if people crank their viewrs to ultra when their hardware can't handle it. That's the user's fault, to put it bluntly.<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: If your hardqare can't handle a ton of point lights then don't enable that feature, for the love of pete.<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't know how many of you may remember the initial release of Oblivioin (the game) but it was a beast for its time<br />
[11:43] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: Oliver Grahnar, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaikai<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i suggest, we all start to use Real scaled avatars and buildings. that way you can use smaller textures. and then 1024 is enough<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and it looks better too<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but within 12 months of release just about every game on the market used that level of graphics quality<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and actually the same was true of Baldur's Gate when it first came out<br />
[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: Honestly, a 512 is fine for *most* of what we do in here. There's just the freedom to zoom the camera right up to an object, and that is when it looks like crap.<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and NWN<br />
[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: In games, a user can't generally do that.<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for clothing sure<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if you're making a structure that's 40m x 60m from mesh and want to UV-map it to a single texture.....<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *shudders*<br />
[11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, a 512 won't do it there. ;)<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or make a single mesh to cover a 256x256 region with a custom single baked texture<br />
[11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: But there are still uses for a 512 in that use case, where materials are concerned.<br />
[11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: A lot of texture size just involves the size of what you're putting it on. If you have an object that's only going to be a couple meters in size, you don't need 1024. You'll only notice a difference if you zoom in really close.<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you end up mapping it to take tiled textures<br />
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: Where you might use a 1034 for the diffuse, a 512 or even 256 might be plenty for normal and specular mapping.<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then have 50 materials<br />
[11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: I will purposely scale down textures if I'm only using it for a small object.<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then you end up using 50 512x512 textures which defeats the purpose of the original limit<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do too<br />
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: That's where texture atlases come in. ;)<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have a full set of 8x8 specular maps for generic use<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway....not something that we can do anything about if those are all enforced by the viewer<br />
[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: neb is clearly soooo fired. ;)<br />
[11:48] Shez Oyen: lol<br />
[11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: He's prolly really still involved with his Encitra work.<br />
[11:49] Oliver Grashnar: if anyones available after the meeting i could use a little help with some connectivity issues unrelated to the meeting<br />
[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: Either that or out getting a gas station microwave cheeseburger<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: WHat connection problems ?<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: ewww<br />
[11:49] OtakuMegane Desu: Removing or altering these limits is something to keep in mind as we get some OS-focused viewer work done. Unless someone manages to get patches in on the existing viewers or convinces their devs to do it, we'll just have to wait a while longer.<br />
[11:50] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: what do you think about the export permission ? have a chance to be ported to the core ? is this a good/bad thing...<br />
[11:50] Oliver Grashnar: richardus can connect locally not remotely stuck on waiting for region capabilities try 3 then timeout<br />
[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Export is in core. It's just not really documented.<br />
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Depends how much problems the export function create<br />
[11:51] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: there is a war on google+ for this hihi...<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen an export option in the ini files but I'm not sure what it is really controlling.<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as it's opt-in I can live with it even though it strikes me as defeating the purpose of an *open* simulator<br />
[11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: There is a lot of confusion concerning what the export perm is, what it does, and how it works. It's compounded by the fact that Kitely has it's own implementation of an export perm, which is not the same as the one in OpenSim.<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, opensim is being used to make closed grids. :)<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I know<br />
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: The open is open-source as in the code. What anyone does with it is their business.<br />
[11:52] Oliver Grashnar: why not change the licenece to stop closed grids?<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: yup<br />
[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: Open grids like Osgris are an anomaly, not a normal configuration.<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: There are lots of HG enabled grids running OS<br />
[11:53] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: i belive on a real P2P metaverse but also the creators have to protect them works...<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one thing I would *really* like to see fixed is the setting to disallow direct HG login (HGTP) to a region<br />
[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: There is no FOSS approved license that would stop closed grids. You're in vanity license territory at that point, and that's a terrible idea.<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oliver Grashnar did you used your external ip or you mabye have router loopback problem.<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's there but broken<br />
[11:54] OtakuMegane Desu: One, software licenses are almost impossible to change on a larger scale project like this. Everyone involved has to agree. Second, closed grids and private codebases aren't intended to be limited.<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, that's already implemented to only HG to send them to welcome<br />
[11:54] Oliver Grashnar: richardus yes external ip as i understand it if you have loopback issue it stops connection locally... i can make account for you to see if you like ?<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, it doesn't work<br />
[11:54] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: why should i care if someone wants to close a grid?<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oliver, it's hard problem to fix. mabye someone else knows something i forgot<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have my Hedonism cklub set to disallow HG entry directly and it doesn't stop anyone from tping there<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only way to enforce HG entry is to do it grid-wide<br />
[11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: You're clearly hiring the wrong bouncers. ;)<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nopes<br />
[11:55] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: estates should be an easy way to limit access<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: try it sometime<br />
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: If closed grids were prohibited you'd actually lose some of the development. Some people do have money invested in this but contribute for the greter good as well.<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, did you set the fallback and othe setting correct in robust ? otherwise it's not working<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's all set correctly<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I reported it months ago in Mantis<br />
[11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Pester diva. The HG Goddess. :)<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: SL/OS is getting to many problems, wrong camera angle, wrong avatar/build size, no good mesh support, a pile of bugs., and am sure i forgot a pile of thgings<br />
[11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: Although at the moment she's prolly even busier than neb is.<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess the problem is it's way more fun to write new bugs than to fix old ones<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and the viewers still have problems with UI scaling and cxursor position.<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, camera spins around when you are zoomed in to an object<br />
[11:58] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: oh the oscillations<br />
[11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: Right now, everything is in a sort of holding pattern waiting on the avinationmerge branch, anyway.<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew ? oh not know that one<br />
[11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: A lot of that is viewer stuff and it comes about because all the major viewers are still SL-focused. That's the big audience. They're just nice enough to include OS support.<br />
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, rotate the camera to see something "right side up" that is on the ground and then you select a piece of it, or select it for edit and the camera rotates back to some "normal" viewing direction.<br />
[11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: OnLook is being worked on for an OS-focus but there's not much else going on.<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: It was fixed in some specific viewers.<br />
[12:00] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: isnt any old game engine a viewer?<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm not even sure what to do with some of the bugs I've reported since they've celebrated 1 or even 2 brithdays<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Never seen that problem<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume nobody actually goes and looks at Mantis reports that old<br />
[12:01] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: seems to be if we want more viewers just throw some gamer clients to an opensim server and see what happens<br />
[12:01] OtakuMegane Desu: It hasn't been entirely helped that OS has long kept in step with SL and is only now beginning to genuinely break off onto its own path.<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, depends what viewer you use. I see it often.<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Singularity for opensim<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, bake them a cake? ;)<br />
[12:01] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bit if I bake them they'd be limited to 1024x1024 reports :p<br />
[12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: A "viewer", as defined for our purposes, is more than just a renderer or game engine. It needs to be able to render (and edit!) prims, which is a whole seperate ballgame.<br />
[12:02] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: yep<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: AIne, I never worry about the age of bugs unless a bug got fixed and the report wasn't closed, or the bug can no longer be reproduced.<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...but what are the chances of it ever being looked at an addressed?<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, u"unable to rezz cake"<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: little yellow triangle cakes<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, the usual problem is having someone with the interest to fix the problem and the knowledge of the code base in order to make the needed changes.<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[12:03] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (rezzes cupcake and eats it)<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: don't type to fast for the microphone<br />
[12:04] OtakuMegane Desu: Viewers are pretty much coded in C++ which is not a simple or entirely pleasant beast to deal with.<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm watching a lot of mantis reports but I may not be able to do much about some of them.<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, what button you did press :O<br />
[12:04] OtakuMegane Desu: And people who know how to work with it are definitely fewer than for say Java or c#<br />
[12:05] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: convert it to javascript :) exist a variant of javascript bullet engine<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: You see people asking for experience in C++ more than for C these days, or just usually lumped together as C/C++.<br />
[12:05] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: i have a c++ compiler, it knows what to do, or tells me the errors :P<br />
[12:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Well obviously more than C, but C++ vs Java or C# the latter are seen much more often now<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, what button?<br />
[12:06] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (or possibility of using a prototype system like python or other opengl frameworks to make clients)<br />
[12:07] OtakuMegane Desu: C++ is good for working at very low-level stuff though, like drivers and even direct hardware access, things which are difficult or sometimes impsosible for higher-level languages.<br />
[12:07] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: c# was suppose to be a java killer<br />
[12:07] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: javascript/webGL<br />
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: The hour has come and gone. Time to start wrapping things up unless has something else they to discuss this week.<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: your mic where short open<br />
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: odd. No sign of the mic being open at my end.<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nopes, I need to go pretend to be productive so I'm off.....have a great week everyone<br />
[12:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: Web.Rain the wonderful world of shader languages<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves and *poofs*<br />
[12:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: tc Aine.<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: now it's open again<br />
[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, we've had some good user conversation, but I thing the dev meeting is not gonna happen at this point. ;)<br />
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, its doing it on its own it seems.<br />
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, I think that will wrap it up for this weeks meeting. Good seeing everyone. See you again next week.<br />
[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, just let you know. that's why i do not trust build in microphones<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Richarus, perhaps its fingeritis and I'm triggering some keyboard shortcut I don't know about.<br />
[12:10] Oliver Grashnar: so anyone able to help me out with this connection issue ?<br />
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: there's a shortcut ? :O<br />
[12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: please give a try to this<br />
[12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: http://dotnet.github.io/core/<br />
[12:10] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (obessing about viewers seems kind of odd, as a server should know nothing about them until one opens a channel of communication -_-)<br />
[12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: and report next week :) thanks<br />
[12:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im going to get going, bye all :)<br />
[12:11] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: tc Alicia<br />
[12:11] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: for linux users<br />
[12:11] lavender -pretty: hello pc<br />
[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: So, are we ready to stick a fork in this meeting? :)<br />
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I think that's what I was already suggesting.<br />
[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn nods.<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-22Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-222015-10-25T23:00:12Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
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<div><pre><br />
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm checking to see if nebadon is coming soon.<br />
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Does anyone from Moses come to these meetings regularly?<br />
[11:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br />
[11:04] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Not remotely regulrly, no.<br />
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Not that I know of but I'm not sure what avatar names they use.<br />
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Less likely to be here now that they have forked OS.<br />
[11:04] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: thought i read they decided to distance themselves from core intentionally<br />
[11:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: they seem to feel there wasnt enough colaboration?<br />
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: something like that.<br />
[11:05] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: I wondered if they saw the code donation of a Physx engine from InWorldz<br />
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Good question.<br />
[11:05] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: perhaps for their purposes they need something different in the structure of the software<br />
[11:05] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: They need to make large, rapid changes, and core's submission process was too slow for them. That's mostly what it comes down to.<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Core isn't the easiest part to get in with new stuff. :P<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Part of the problem is having people who can review their changes.<br />
[11:06] Kayaker Magic: InWorldz has been donating several things lately, not directly back here...<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: its unlikely we could easily port anything from InWorldz<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: they forked off a very long time ago<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: in like 0.5 era<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. that's a long time ago.<br />
[11:07] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Imworldz has some code up on Github. There's some very real questions about whether or not they've got all their licensing ducks in a row.<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: very long time ago<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how much truth is there to the information spreading around G+ about a major commit that will break the ability to TP to a region that hasn't been updated to that version or later?<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: at some point that will happen Aine, as of right this moment that is not true<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: to fix attachments<br />
[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: something to do with wearables wasnt it?<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: there is a bug at the moment<br />
[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: crashes the originating region<br />
[11:08] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Just one bug? Hooray!<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: well thats what happens if we dont force upgrade<br />
[11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: Hard breaking lines like that are avoided as much as possible but they have occurred before.<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: um... I thought it was that it crashes the destination if it is on older code.<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats not the reason it changed though<br />
[11:08] PcTek CyberStar: we will find out who is responsible and send someone from la familia to take care of it.<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know the exact results<br />
[11:09] Unknown UserUMMAU42: Hello, can someone help Me, on the funsionamiento of grounds, try to open the mine and can not enter<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: at the moment there is widespread panic out there so if that isn't an imminent change it might be worth having a dev say so publicly<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: but it can lead to crashing<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: much panic<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: it will likely come with the next release<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: as of right now the code isnt finished yet<br />
[11:09] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: It will also be backported a bit if I recall.<br />
[11:09] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: it isnt the first time with incompatibility between versions for HG<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes 0.8.1PF will be ok<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: anything before that will not<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Could the panic be a good thing if it means the word is spreading faster and people will be more likely to upgrade quicker?<br />
[11:09] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if it doesn't come this time, something eventually will be big enough to force updating. It's just how things go at this stage of development.<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I would saym, finaly rid of the 0.7 versions. but people are worried about the upgrade happins in a busy event time. and break things<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes...but if it's going to be something major like that it ought to get a lot of advanced, highly public notice<br />
[11:10] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: it was nice to see work being done on ode and vars<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so people will know about it and be prepared (as best possible) for it<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: well this whole thing is a really big change<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: thats just 1 piece of many<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but until we have the whole picutre<br />
[11:11] OtakuMegane Desu: Usually it is announced well beforehand in my experience but it seems like someone picked up early and decided to run around with rumors.<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: we cant really say much that already hasnt been said<br />
[11:11] OtakuMegane Desu: Instead of waiting<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: smaxy was going to post some stuff around<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: well we talked about getting the word out on IRC<br />
[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: he did<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: mostly just getting people ready for when it eventually does happen<br />
[11:11] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Things like this are gonna happen. They *have* to happen for OpenSim to continue to grow. A changing peice of software is what everyone has signed on for, whether they like it for not.<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: yup<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you are getting very early warning at this point<br />
[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: just that there is now much more focus on HG then there was in past<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: are mega's going to be removed too ? or just delay the renmove 1 version ?<br />
[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: used to be hardly anytone would notice hg incompatibility<br />
[11:12] OtakuMegane Desu: There's a much larger base of OS users now than in the past too. And people are starting to do big stuff with it.<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: megas will likely be removed in 2 releases from now<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: IRC is a very bad way to reach people if you want to get to the masses since most (myself included) can't spend 24/7 on IRC<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: not next release<br />
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: has ode been fixed for Vars<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: needs more testing Arielle<br />
[11:13] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: ODE does not work on Vars.<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but its getting there<br />
[11:13] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: not == now<br />
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ubODE does<br />
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: cool<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its in Avinationmerge brange<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: there will be another ODE in the future<br />
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: ode should also work now on master<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: called ubODE<br />
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: how is that going?<br />
[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: that merge?<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok Ubit cool<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: didnt realize it was in master<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, going to be a long process.<br />
[11:14] OtakuMegane Desu: So an updated ODE?<br />
[11:14] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: I've been running a region on the avainationmerge branch for a while now. I haven't had any problems to speak of<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have Sisyphus running on avinationmerge but still using bUlletsim<br />
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: yeap ubODE is a evolution of old ode plugin<br />
[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: avination doesnt have hg right?<br />
[11:14] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: This new ODE will have different behavior, much like Bullet did from the old ODE. People with scripts that depend on specific physics behavior will need to proceed with that in mind.<br />
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yes.. vehicles will behave diferently from ode<br />
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: ( and a few more things but mostly vehicles )<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, The grid doesn't, AFAIK. It is a closed grid.<br />
[11:16] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: HG sorta works, Arielle. At least the basic. I haven't tested that much.<br />
[11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Cool. Variety is good, though I don't have reason to switch off of Bullet personally.<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: the avination code base has no idea about hypergrid really<br />
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Ubit is merging all that in<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: with som help<br />
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: just wondered if their code is fully compatible HG wise<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it will be<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it currently isnt 100%<br />
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: ok<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me just say we cant certify its 100% yet<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: One person is working their way through the code looking for any regressions.<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: most stuff works I think<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: needs more testin<br />
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: it will be fixed<br />
[11:17] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: also some talk in G+ groups about server side export flag support<br />
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: well it it isn't already :)<br />
[11:17] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: didnt avi have that ?<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: I think that export flag requires viewer to support it?<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know honestly<br />
[11:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes which it does<br />
[11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: I would imagine so<br />
[11:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: sing and fs<br />
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: avn doesnt use hg, but code was there.<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: FS have it ? other OS viewers have it ?<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I seem to remember running across an export setting in the ini files but I haven't looked at what exactly it does<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i only know singularity with export<br />
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: i thought Mel had put a hidden switch in for it<br />
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: in regular opensim<br />
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: server side<br />
[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: but my memory might be bad<br />
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: FS has export in the dialogs<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: There are two export situations. Exporting something from a grid to a local HD, and exporting items to another grid after an HG TP.<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: And what about OAR ?<br />
[11:20] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Melanie and Sianna were behind the export permission in some viewers, IIRC. But becuase it's not universally supported, and there's different implemenations like Kitely's, there's been more that a little confusion.<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Not sure which (if either) is covered by the flag I saw.<br />
[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: exactly Marcus<br />
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: FS has checkboxes in the build dialog for the HG TP export<br />
[11:20] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i had thought export flag wasnt finished, but im pretty sure melanie said it should work if enabled, its just not documented<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe, yea... like most of OS.<br />
[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes i thought so too Alicia<br />
[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: is a funding effort to reinvent that wheel<br />
[11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: export flag seems like it wont be much use as only full perm items can be set to export<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think its a bit to early for that stuff I knwo its in the works<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: I would not expect it for next release though<br />
[11:21] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: I've felt that export perm was a misnomer, personally. It's more of a public domain flag.<br />
[11:22] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Which isn't a bad thing to have.<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I know melanie has some papers she is writing that will be made public soon<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: that will cover some of this stuff<br />
[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: well some commercial creators would like better protection for hg sales<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: HG in general needs improving<br />
[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: but freebie people are afraid that the default setting will prohibit export for currently exportable freebies<br />
[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: everyone is still quite in the Second Life mindset<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that has to change<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: and will change<br />
[11:23] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Amen.<br />
[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: no<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: it wont go away<br />
[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod i mean :)<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: but things need to expand<br />
[11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: especialy contenmt creators need to change there mind of how things need to be sold.<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: SL is a small bubble<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: in a sea of bubbles<br />
[11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: And one that's going stagnant at that<br />
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Kitely has something nicely inbetween SL and OS as far as protection of creator rights goes.<br />
[11:24] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: And a straight jacket. If we stay in it, we die.<br />
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: I assumed Export was going to be like what Kitely does<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I hope that at least anything that doesn't currently have flag set will, by default, be "converted" to have it set<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think its a bit to premature to say how its is going to work on that level<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: its a fluid situation<br />
[11:26] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: The safe, legal thing to do is to presume that a permission has *not* been granted. "All Rights Reserved" and all that, unless a content creator says otherwise.<br />
[11:26] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: If they haven't said otherwise, you can't assume they might.<br />
[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes but creators no longer in Opensim would not be setting their stuff exportable<br />
[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: so we lose a lot of frebie content which is currently exportable<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats unlikely to occur<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oar ?<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: no one is out to lock down existing content<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you cannot move stuff export disabled by oar. don't implement it !<br />
[11:27] Whaka Akahw: hi :)<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its about giving creators the option to if they want to<br />
[11:27] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: And that would suck. But setting export by default on items that didn't use to have it leave one open to lawsuits. Welcome to copyright.<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so everything currently in my inventory will instantly become non-exportable and I'll need to go and manually set the export flag on every single item I own?<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I pity the people with more than a few hundred items in their inventory if that happens<br />
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: can be fun with scipts inside objects<br />
[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: lot of content from creators who are no longer here<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: Aine no, its unlikely anything in your inventory would change<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it would be stuff in simulators and new stuff you take<br />
[11:28] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Copyrights are held by the otem creator. Unless *they* can *say* what the perms are, nobody can add extra rights to it. Not you, not a grid, not a group of devs.<br />
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: unless the flag is set by date of creation perhaps<br />
[11:29] Kayaker Magic: But right now all those items are export by default, the new feature is the ability to disable that.<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: yea that would make the most sense<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: upset people with own grid and sql knwoledge ...<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: you have to opt in to no export<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: and nothing as it is changes<br />
[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes Neb, that would be ideal<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I certainly hope that's the way it's implemented<br />
[11:30] PcTek CyberStar: many grids have completely stopped exporting of anything at all<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: I imagine it is nothing is set in stone<br />
[11:30] PcTek CyberStar: not just secondLife<br />
[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: full perm meaning it is exportable under current setup<br />
[11:30] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Full perm != public domain. Full perms does *not* mean you've been given all rights over something.<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: realistically though, if something can leave your sim and a person has access to the console / database<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: there is nothing we can do to protect it<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and look at SL<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no one has access to the back end in SL<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and content theft is rampant<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: so while its good to tighten things up<br />
[11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: I think most creators are more worried about people using viewer export than region owners running an oar or something.<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: none of this is a unbreakable vault<br />
[11:31] PcTek CyberStar: i think a grid started from the ground up with only freebies<br />
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: and everything is public domain<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: unenforceable<br />
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: would put a stop to a lot of these retarded law suits over trivial crap<br />
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: it's a video game<br />
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: who cares if you made a brown board textures<br />
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: in a video game<br />
[11:32] PcTek CyberStar: people that file law suits like that make more money off the suit than they ever would off a texture<br />
[11:33] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: The creator of the texture may care, and has very real legal rights over it.<br />
[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya my only point was that no one has ever designed DRM you couldnt circumvent<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: but if we can make people feel warm and cozy we should<br />
[11:33] PcTek CyberStar: what about putting out a legal notice on he grid...<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: legal notice is only as good as your legal teams ability to enforce such notices<br />
[11:33] PcTek CyberStar: everything on this grid is public domain, if you dont want it to be, get it off our grid<br />
[11:33] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: You can pay for the lawyer. ;)<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: going to court costs money<br />
[11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: It's mostly meant to block the "casual" theft. Like locking your door. It won't stop a pro no matter how many locks you do. But it'll keep honest people honest.<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: even if you are the plaintiff and correct<br />
[11:34] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: If Osgrid were taken to court over... well, anything really, it'd be dead. Just... dead. Kaput. Roadkill.<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but its good to cover our bases, I am all for making things easier for export<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: people just need to realize it wont do anything to stop content theft<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it will simply make things a little easier to manage<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: which is a good thing<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: If you hear the noise sometimes in SL. hmm. not sure if people understand it<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: many (most?) don't<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: well i mean look there are many examples of it out there<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: Sony spent a huge some of money developing encryption for Bluray<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: was 100s of millions<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: some 15 year old kid cracked it in like 3 days<br />
[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: lol<br />
[11:37] PcTek CyberStar: sony should hire him<br />
[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: really ;)<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: more likely NSA hired him<br />
[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: The problem is things encrypted have to be able to get unencrypted by consumer-level tech. SO there's only so much they can layer on.<br />
[11:38] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: if it can be displayed it can be copied<br />
[11:38] PcTek CyberStar: one of the major problems we are facing right now<br />
[11:38] PcTek CyberStar: is grids not getting back online<br />
[11:38] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Encryption and DRM are a bit off the conversation path of permissions, honestly. Becuase permissions are all we have, and all we will have for the foreseeable future.<br />
[11:38] PcTek CyberStar: because of that j2kmodule error<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: PcTek? this is news to me<br />
[11:39] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: the only way to protect a grid from thieves is closing the grid and using a system like canopy... and it will cost a lot<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: what error? is there a mantis?<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: j2kmodule hasnt changed in years<br />
[11:39] PcTek CyberStar: Whaka did you make a mantis for that error?<br />
[11:39] PcTek CyberStar: oh there is whaka<br />
[11:39] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: j2kmodule is prone to giving off warnings from time to time. I haven't seen an error in.... aeons.<br />
[11:39] Whaka Akahw: hm, no, i don't really know how to do that<br />
[11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. I forget when it was even last mentioned<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: need to file a bug report<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: include as much detail and logs etc.. as you can<br />
[11:40] Whaka Akahw: (can i past someone here the crash i get ?)<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: just a guess without seeing anything<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its more likely somthing with your environment<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: than opensim itself<br />
[11:41] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: without looking, I'm wondering if it's missing dependencies.<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ive never heard anyone mention this problem before<br />
[11:41] PcTek CyberStar: [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Agent.TextureSender.J2KDecoderModule' from assembly 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules, Version=0.8.2.10663, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: what version of mono?<br />
[11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Looking at the errors listed in mantis J2K is spitting them out but it sounds like J2K isn't necessarily the problem. It's just not finding something<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hmm i wonder if its Kernel 3.16<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: and newer mono issue<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: that I ran into<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: im stuck on opensuse 13.1<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: because newer kernel crashes mono<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: randomly<br />
[11:43] PcTek CyberStar: what's it mean when it says could not load type<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's why i stopped using linux. so many problems<br />
[11:43] PcTek CyberStar: fatal unhandled exception<br />
[11:43] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: isnt it a threading problem the one between kernel and mono?<br />
[11:43] PcTek CyberStar: [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Agent.TextureSender.J2KDecoderModule' from assembly 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules, Version=0.8.2.10663, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.<br />
[11:43] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: What version of mono? What linux distribution?<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Licu yea its some kind of timing / threading<br />
[11:43] Whaka Akahw: debian 8.2 and mono 4.0.4<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: with newer kernels<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: apparantly its been fixed<br />
[11:44] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: kernel from 3.16 to 4<br />
[11:44] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Have you used :sudo apt-get mono-complete<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but ive not seen evidence if that show up in opensuse yet<br />
[11:44] Whaka Akahw: i used synaptic to get it, it's the same, no .<br />
[11:44] Whaka Akahw: ?<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm<br />
[11:44] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Cuz it could like something is missing. libgdi or something.<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure what problem is there WHaka<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but i do no think that is abug in opensim<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: its very likely a mono bug<br />
[11:45] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: The packages synaptic gras are frmo the same repos, yes.<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea make sure you have mono-complete<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: apt-get install mono-complete<br />
[11:45] PcTek CyberStar: if there is any way the council could offer some insightful advice on what to do?<br />
[11:45] Whaka Akahw: okay, i try this now<br />
[11:46] PcTek CyberStar: ok good.<br />
[11:46] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: We just did. And there's no council. We ain't Jedi Knights.<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: if that fails you could try compile mono yourself<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: council?<br />
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: :)<br />
[11:46] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Complete install of mono you must be having, yes.<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: also<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: could be the setting mono threads issue<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: not enough threads for mono<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: soit bogs on start<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: in ~/.bashrc<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: add<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: export MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU=2048<br />
export MONO_GC_PARAMS=nursery-size=64m<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: and restart bash<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: relaunch opensim etc..<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont have this already i would expect major problems<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: bizzare unexplainable crashes<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and stuff not working<br />
[11:49] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: So... like normal then. >:)<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is thread hog<br />
[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002 is glad she has clickable windows<br />
[11:49] Ken Savage: Any solutions on the horizon to the issues with Warp3D?<br />
[11:49] PcTek CyberStar: well the lnux opensim support group practically died<br />
[11:49] PcTek CyberStar: however i like linux<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Ken: Which issues?<br />
[11:49] PcTek CyberStar: and love osg<br />
[11:50] Ken Savage: It looks great but takes forever with all the error messages on startup.<br />
[11:50] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: You'll find tons of people who use linux to host opensim.<br />
[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: Nebs the linux guru, along with a few others<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: te majority of the dev team are linux people<br />
[11:50] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Nothing has died. lol<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: alteast for servers<br />
[11:50] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems the majority probably use Linux for hosting. Definitely so for those running on a VPS or full server<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Ken, what sort of error messages are you getting? I'm not aware of any excessively long delay starting a region that is using Warp3D<br />
[11:51] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: Craft works only on linux server, windows in just a few servers and pc of third people, and it works well<br />
[11:51] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: my windows server been running my grid for over a month without restart. Pretty impressed<br />
[11:51] Ken Savage: On a 6x6 var, it takes 4x longer to start and lots more memory when I use Warp3D<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surprising<br />
[11:52] PcTek CyberStar: i might not be the smartest softball in the haunted house, but i know how to click the help button<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: big vars will probably always be a bit slower<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that is a lot of data<br />
[11:52] Ken Savage: and a lot of error messages<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: Anything that would involve the whole of a var region is going to take longer.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 36 regions worth of terrain<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: you are nearing the GB barrier<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of size<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Ken: It should not be tossing error messages AFAIK. What errors are you seeing?<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 100's of MB anyway<br />
[11:52] Ken Savage: If it is set to not draw prims, its not bad<br />
[11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: warp3d gives alot of error messages about corupt textures, i found alot on my grid are because people have used local textures when building and forgot to set them to a real asset<br />
[11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: Don't think I have any region with prims enabled for the maptile<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya those are all warnings Alicia<br />
[11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: I think Warp3D actually tried to render the scene (ie the entire region) in 2Dm athough a bit dumpbed down. In any case, that's a LOT of data.<br />
[11:54] Ken Savage: Other than the Warp3D issues, the Bulletsim fall through issue is the only other thing I get complaints about.<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: if you compile opensim in Release mode and logging to INFO<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: instead of debugging<br />
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: some are warnings some are errors nebadon, dont stop it working tho<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you wouldnt see any of tat<br />
[11:54] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 0.8.2 have warp3d problems ?<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have btw more problems with not using warp3d. no water on map as example 0.8.1.1<br />
[11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Warp3d is it's own madule. Unless someone decides to maintain it, it'll always have whatever issue it does.<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: The only other issue with Warp3d is still that off by one error down the right side of the map tiles.<br />
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: warp3d ,ay have a little leak problem<br />
[11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: module. Zowie I can't type today.<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: Warp3D is generally just a problem if you have it running on a timer<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: personally<br />
[11:56] PcTek CyberStar: is anyone experiencing currently missing mesh problems?<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I like generating my own map tiles<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and hard coding it<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: region starts up about 100 times faster<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what is the replacement for warp3d ?<br />
[11:56] PcTek CyberStar: 00<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and takes tile generator out of the equation<br />
[11:56] PcTek CyberStar: region starts 100x faster<br />
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: some 16MB now and then on my little 2km region<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont generate maptiles yes<br />
[11:57] PcTek CyberStar: ok<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the thnig with maptiles is<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only run warp3d at startup. never run map regeneration regulaior<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it has to download the entire regions worth of content<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: bfore it can render the tile<br />
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( err only 5k prims or so )<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: == long time<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I'd be interested in doing that too but I'm not quite sure how you do it.<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: well you can generate your maptiles however you want<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i use the viewer<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i sit myself on a cube<br />
[11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: You take your camera up about 800m and then take a snapshot. ;)<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. Just need the coordinates<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and move it up to like 300-400m range<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and go into mouselook<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: look straight down and snap a pic<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: fnacy it up in photoshop<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: upload it in world via the viewer<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: That's a lot of work.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: get its uuid<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: regulair map, is not showing watre in 0.8.1 well almost nothing where showing on the maptiles for me. switched it back for a test not long ago.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and set it in OpenSim.ini or Regions.ini<br />
[11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: It's great for relatively static regions.<br />
[11:58] PcTek CyberStar: This question is for nebaddon: how do you see the future of osgrid changing as a direct impact of technologies like GRID-ON-A-STICK with hypergridding enabled?<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of work i guess but regions start faster/ use les memory<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I just had a thought. I wonder if you could somehow use a region module to automate that<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and i get a much higher quality maptile<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you 1<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: hang on a second<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen the ones at the OSCC<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: http://cc.opensimulator.org/map/<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yea for those that havent<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can get really nice results<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: even write on the tiles<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can make the tile a photo of a monkey<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: Susanne. :)<br />
[11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: I do that with some tiles for fun.<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb. this chairs are already in halloween mood<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: I assume we are having a halloween party this year<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it did let me floar, resit it's gone. just where floating again. until soemonbe next ti me start sitrting<br />
[12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Wright Plaza is definitely haunted.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: anyway making your own tiles is a nice hack<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: to increase startup times<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and possibly free up some ram<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: and avoid the off by one error in Warp3D<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: you get much higher control over how stuff looks<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you are into that kind of thing<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm. Ok. so. use warp3d one for the tiles and then screengrab them and make your riles. it's some idea<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: or that<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: actually richardus<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you watch your region startup<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it prints a URL<br />
[12:01] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: PCTek, there have been various similar implementations in past but they really have no effect overall on the grids<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: or copy the maptiles:O<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: to a JPG of your maptile<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: just load that into firefox<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and save page as<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: instant maptile grabber<br />
[12:02] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: they appeal to different people<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then you can photoshop it up<br />
[12:02] PcTek CyberStar: i knew there was sim-on-a-stick<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: enhance colors<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: slight gausian blur etc..<br />
[12:02] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: diva's distro<br />
[12:02] OtakuMegane Desu: And you can pretty much use any sort of image with a UUID.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[12:02] PcTek CyberStar: but grid-on-a-stick is something new and different, especially with hypergrid enabled<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: you could use a picture of your avatars face<br />
[12:02] PcTek CyberStar: it means the end user controls he horzontal and the vertical<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: if you are doing secret work<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a script function that will return the UUID of the region map tile.<br />
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Something to change with next upgrade. if i can find the var maptile<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and dont want people to see<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: make it skull and crossbones<br />
[12:03] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: diva distro had the same capability in that regard<br />
[12:03] PcTek CyberStar: again i raise the question of whether ornot we should have 3 more buttons for copy grid, transfer grid, and modify grid<br />
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Goatse. :)<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: pcTek yes likely we will at some point<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that will require a lot of coordination though<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and being opensource<br />
[12:03] OtakuMegane Desu: Derpy Hooves is playing with portals to the west of Teravus Plaza<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: anything can change it to do whatever they want<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but sure for those who are willing to play fairly<br />
[12:04] PcTek CyberStar: well just remember that wa my idea, as such if you could allow the buttons to have my name on them, that would be great.<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lets have good toolsets for them<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am all for that<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has anyone tried to do any terraforming recently that doesn't involve mesh terrain?<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: people just need to realize its limits is all<br />
[12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: There's terrain that's not mesh terrain?? ;)<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if so, are your terraforming tools as borked as mine?<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: theres anything that isnt mesh :P<br />
[12:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: whats mesh terrain ;P<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you know *exactly* what I mean<br />
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: yeap vars dont use mesh, ode neither<br />
[12:05] OtakuMegane Desu: Haven't done terraforming for a while. Some of the tools have always been kinda screwy at times though.<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: Aine I have not terraformed the standard terrrain in a very long time<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you should try it, Neb<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: answering that honestly<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: they never worked well for me<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's badly broken<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: so im probably not a good person to ask<br />
[12:06] PcTek CyberStar: all you need do to reinitialize the metaverse, is get new physics running on a var and divide by zero while lifting the terrain.<br />
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: only bullet converts terrain to mesh on standard regions<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: becasue i never liked how they work, not ever<br />
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: terraforming has only sporadically gotten love from core, and then not for a long long time now. Last fixes I remember were to speed up db updates.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i was one of the first people doing non standard terrains in opensim<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: beacuse of that<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: Adam and I wrote a sculpty creator<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: I could take L3DT terrain<br />
[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: Robert did some fixes a while back for bullet<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and run it through this tool<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and it would spit out 200 sculptmaps<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: then we wrote another upload tool<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: that would reassemble it all<br />
[12:07] OtakuMegane Desu: The base terrain system is very old and the tools are pretty much what they were in SL<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: im sure you have seen some of my islands :)<br />
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: but issue is only with bullet?<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: those tools use raycast<br />
[12:08] PcTek CyberStar: nd so i had to redesign it with traditional terrain.<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its using physics raycast?<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it though<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't tried terraforming using ODE recently<br />
[12:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: there was some slowness and brokem bit after vars came in<br />
[12:08] OtakuMegane Desu: Once the possibilities of sculpty and then mesh terrain came about I think many gave up improving the standard terrain.<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but now vs a year or two ago is very badly broken<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i bet its Bulletsim<br />
[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Mesh terrain has so many advantages over the standard terrain. It's just no comparison.<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: it has to remake the physics everytime you change<br />
[12:09] PcTek CyberStar: cout << "Please do not build your terrain up from tiny prim gravel, it is senseless to have 50,000 gravels to fill in a hole. " <<endl;<br />
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: well on the avnmerge branch o disabled terrain undo for now<br />
[12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mesh terrain can only take 1 texture though<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its so intensive it lags the tools<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: are you running bulletsim in its own thread?<br />
[12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: k<br />
[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: mesh terrain can take up to 8 textures.<br />
[12:09] OtakuMegane Desu: I use standard terrain still but almost always design it outside then use the tools to make minor tweaks.<br />
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: didnt like loosing 16MB or ram on each mouse click<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: you really cant make a mesh terrain that is 1 solid piece<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: that is higher qualit than the LL terrain<br />
[12:10] Marcus Llewellyn: You can. But you shouldn't. ;)<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: no you really cant<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: becasue of physics<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: you will exceed 16 bit limits<br />
[12:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: and using reduced physics on terrain is nono<br />
[12:10] PcTek CyberStar: 2^4<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: there will be spots you sink in terrain or floatabove it<br />
[12:11] PcTek CyberStar: remember terain mesh 0110<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you're bored some day go to a flat piece of land and try to raise it a little, then try to lower it a little and you'll see what I mean<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: so if you want higher you have to make tiles<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: to raise terrain you have to be at least at about 30% strength<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs if you lower at 30% strength you'll dig an instand DEEP hole<br />
[12:11] PcTek CyberStar: granularity<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: didnt Aurora have better brushes?<br />
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: well thats the math on the tools i guess<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: and better terrain editing in genral?<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we should look at tht<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and try smoothing something at minimum stength<br />
[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: sounds similar to the issue Roberty had to fix a while back<br />
[12:12] OtakuMegane Desu: I've tried designing terrain just using the tools and it's a horrid pain. Once I got used to L3DT that was it lol<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: bet those 2 areas of code are very similar<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it used to work somewhat well<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then about a year ago it was broken<br />
[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: sounds like he may need to fix again]\<br />
[12:12] PcTek CyberStar: maybe we need better source code auditing<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: and this is on Vars?<br />
[12:12] OtakuMegane Desu: Smoothing is probably the most messed up tool. It's always been a mess in my experience<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: what about on a standard 256m region?<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7404<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: is it bad there as well?<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's on a 256x256 standard region under Bullet<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: if its only vars that kind of makes more sense<br />
[12:13] PcTek CyberStar: whoever is making these strange changes to obscure pieces of code should be logged in the system.<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: no one has really changed this code<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: but vars and physics have changed<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: could be why<br />
[12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: All code commits are logged.<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7444<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think anyone has touched terrain editing tools in quite some time<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: its certainly an effect of something else being changed<br />
[12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sometime last summerI think<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: unexpected consequences<br />
[12:14] OtakuMegane Desu: Only changes I can even remember to terrain editing were the commands added in a while back. Forget who committed those...<br />
[12:14] Marcus Llewellyn: We need a GSOC student. :)<br />
[12:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Or five.<br />
[12:14] PcTek CyberStar: the repos should reflect if any changes were made to that section of the code in he security logs<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea its a shame the bar is so high<br />
[12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was trying to do some terraforming today and it's hopeless<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: on GSOC<br />
[12:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did robert not checked some terrain stuff ?<br />
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: well flat smoth are tricky to use<br />
[12:15] OtakuMegane Desu: They always have been<br />
[12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only way I could do it was manual edits in PS then tertain load<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: you should try the L3DT terrain tools<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: they are quite amazing<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: butits hard to figure out<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: once you do though its fantastic<br />
[12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's drastically *worse* than it was a couple of years ago, anyway<br />
[12:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes. but... not good to get the right effect.<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: yea its always good to have the inworld tools<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: for finishing touches<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: and if the tools are rough<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: you cant do finishing work<br />
[12:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. It's a learning curve but once you get used to it, it is great. I usually design outside then import terrain and use the tools for minor touch-ups.<br />
[12:16] PcTek CyberStar: my poin is the need to kep security logs is not the sae as the relationship to accountability...<br />
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: well then we can trace commits back to when it was better :)<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: pcTek we do<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: Git tracks everything<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: no one can sneak code in<br />
[12:16] PcTek CyberStar: basically if somoene makes a thousand changes and destabilizes the code very bad they should be off the project<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: or do stuff secretly<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: its 100% impossible<br />
[12:16] Marcus Llewellyn: All code contributions are looked at and approved by members of core.<br />
[12:16] PcTek CyberStar: and the repository should pull up an older working copy of the code<br />
[12:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Do we have a time frame of when the tools were last know to not be screwed up?<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: do you know how Git works PcTek?<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: we use gi<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: git*<br />
[12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 0.7.6 they were working for sure<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=shortlog&p=opensim<br />
[12:17] PcTek CyberStar: i hope it works better than the one microsoft has that's a nightmare<br />
[12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't think I did any terraforming under 0.8.0 so I'm not sure about it<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: with git you can see the history and changlogs of every patch ever<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: since day 1<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: there is a tool called git blame<br />
[12:18] PcTek CyberStar: but is it notation, or is it showing who checked it ot and made real changes or both<br />
[12:18] Shez Oyen: lol<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: http://git-scm.com/docs/git-blame<br />
[12:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: it was around the time that vars/bulletsim was introduced and mega's were broken<br />
[12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: 0.7.6 is a massive time jump. I've done terraforming on and off on a regular basis but I just got used to the tools being a pain I probably can't say when something might have gone more wrong. :P<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: changelogs record just what is changed<br />
[12:19] Marcus Llewellyn require sno paltry tool to place blame. His finger can simply point to any convenient party. :)<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and versioncontrol allows us to checkou any verison we want<br />
[12:19] PcTek CyberStar: so we can check why this new strange error in terraforming hs appeared<br />
[12:19] PcTek CyberStar: and who may be at fault<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: we can do a gitbisect<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: between a working and broken version<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: to find the exact version that broke it<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: we have plenty of good tools<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: we also hvae jenkins<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: everytime someone checks in code<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: jenkins runs unit tests and compiles<br />
[12:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Well we have a back limit if 0.7.6 was still fine. And it sounds like these problems have been going for a while. Like, all of this year?<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: tells us instatly if that code compiles or not<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: http://jenkins.opensimulator.org<br />
[12:20] PcTek CyberStar: compiling as you well know is very different from functioning as designed<br />
[12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: broken before Jan 2015 yes<br />
[12:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I had to guess I would say broken sometime between March 2014 and August 2014<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats what unit tests are for PcTek<br />
[12:21] PcTek CyberStar: it is starting to look suspicious.<br />
[12:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Ok, so somewhere between 0.7.6 and the end of 2014<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: we have 100s of unit tests that run<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: to make sure the code spits out the right answers<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: its not perfect<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: but its pretty good<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: after that our testers usually find bugs within a few hours or days<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: some sneak by for months and years<br />
[12:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Honestly, terraforming is probably one of those things that is based on code based on cade that goes back to 0.4. It's always been quirky at best. I suspect the only real fix is for someone to do a complete rewrite of that part of OpenSim.<br />
[12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it certainly was never *good*<br />
[12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it was a lot better in the past than it is currently<br />
[12:22] Grid: Objekte wurden erfolgreich freigegeben.<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea I would say becasue of everything else going on right now<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: its not a good time to deal with terrain stuff<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: but if someone sends in patches<br />
[12:23] OtakuMegane Desu: It's the same system used in SL. And that hasn't really changed since it was created.<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: I'll be the first to check them out<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: its unlikely the core team will have time until after next release<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: which hopefully is soon<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: Diva is traveling<br />
[12:24] Nebadon Izumi: after she is back we will talk about release<br />
[12:24] Marcus Llewellyn: (Diva has escaped.)<br />
[12:24] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps justin could look at it<br />
[12:24] Nebadon Izumi: Jusin is no longer working on opensim<br />
[12:24] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps robert coudl look at it<br />
[12:24] OtakuMegane Desu: So whatever broke was probably in 2014 sometime. That's a workable range.<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: he isnt gone for good but he has a new job and will not be working on code for a bit<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: but ya there are plenty of devs around<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: until the big avinationmerge is done though<br />
[12:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Perhaps you could look it. We can't really go around volunteering core memners for tasks. ;)<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: i dont tink anyone will have much time for that<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: Robert and Diva and Melanie and Ubit are all working on that<br />
[12:26] OtakuMegane Desu: Well we can at least try to track down suspects<br />
[12:26] OtakuMegane Desu: In the meantime<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: if someone sends in patches I can look and apply them<br />
[12:26] PcTek CyberStar: i know there are some psychologists in the grid, if we find the suspect, we could get the shrinks to guilt trip them into expedient repair.<br />
[12:26] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: get rid of terraforming and bring in voxels ;)<br />
[12:26] Marcus Llewellyn ponders sticking a form in this meeting.<br />
[12:27] Marcus Llewellyn: er, fork<br />
[12:27] OtakuMegane Desu: Trap them in a region full of screaming spengbabs<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: honestly if you want good terrain<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: dont use the in world terrain tools<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: even in SL the suck<br />
[12:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Noo, in SL is pretty good. OS is always pain.<br />
[12:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: What's next you say neb./ don't use opensim ?<br />
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno I hate how LL implemented terrain<br />
[12:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: :P<br />
[12:28] OtakuMegane Desu: They may not be as buggy but they're still not great in SL<br />
[12:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: the viewece toor used can make a differen<br />
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i hate how terrain textures work<br />
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i hate how rough the tools are<br />
[12:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: the viewer used can make a difference<br />
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: like you cant easily cut out a perfect squared off trench<br />
[12:28] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps if we switch the bulldozer for a microscope?<br />
[12:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah terrain textures are bad<br />
[12:28] OtakuMegane Desu: It's an ancient system really. LL came up with a basic terrain and never did much after that.<br />
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: it gets super wrinkled<br />
[12:29] PcTek CyberStar: just changing the icon can help to implant the idea of finer granularity<br />
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: i can make better terrain with a napkin and laser scan it<br />
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:29] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br />
[12:29] PcTek CyberStar: lol<br />
[12:29] Marcus Llewellyn: He's not kidding. lol<br />
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: im super picky<br />
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: i want control of every pixel<br />
[12:30] PcTek CyberStar: i hope you have the taste to use cloth napkins, and not those cheap paper ones with mcdonalds written on them<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: and the LL terrain is kind of just always an aproximation of what you wanted<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: its never quite perfect<br />
[12:30] PcTek CyberStar: hmmm there must be a solution<br />
[12:30] OtakuMegane Desu: The textures don't even stay the same, they shift :P<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[12:30] OtakuMegane Desu: Though I never noticed until you pointed it out years ago<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: there are some good tools out there<br />
[12:31] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps if we reduced the steppage of the terrain by a factor of 10<br />
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: Blender has awesome terrain tools<br />
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: many good tutorials out there<br />
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: L3DT<br />
[12:31] PcTek CyberStar: or coded a checkbox in that allowed manual entry of the step size<br />
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: im sure many other free options<br />
[12:31] PcTek CyberStar: the terrain manipulation needs to respond faster, we could use inline assembly language in that part of the sharp code.<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDoQzsdwtQ<br />
[12:32] OtakuMegane Desu: As with mesh design there's lots of external options, but not so much in-world. WHich is what is ultimately needed.<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: this is using ANT in blender<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya i am all for improving the in world tools<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: they should atleast work how they are intended to work<br />
[12:32] Marcus Llewellyn: Heh. Inline IL won't change anything, and would probably never get past core.<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: but im not sure we can make them work any better than that<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: there is always going to be limits<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: without a complete viewer overhaul<br />
[12:32] OtakuMegane Desu: Well yeah<br />
[12:33] PcTek CyberStar: assembly runs 100x faster than even optimized c or c#<br />
[12:33] OtakuMegane Desu: Any big change is a long ways down the road obviously<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: its also 101x harder PcTek<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: thus nullifying any benefit<br />
[12:33] OtakuMegane Desu: But the current terrain system needs to go as default. Mesh would be nice if it could be manipulated in the viewer<br />
[12:33] OtakuMegane Desu: That's just a huge undertaking ti implement<br />
[12:34] Marcus Llewellyn: It isn't a code speed issue, PcTek. It's a network speed issue. When changing terrain, you're shoving a TON of UDP traffic around. A constant stream of updates from the vewer, to the sim, to services. It's a networking blast.<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea remember all of this is streaming<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes 1000s of miles<br />
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: forget mesh for normal terrain<br />
[12:34] PcTek CyberStar: i've written inline assembly before, it's great for finding the spots in your program that are bottlenecks and using inline assembly there, the entire program can speed up drastically changing the user experience ratios<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: a 6x6 var region is literally 100s of MB of updates<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: when you are editing<br />
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: MB had to not use them on large regions...<br />
[12:34] PcTek CyberStar: oh yes i forget about the var regions<br />
[12:34] PcTek CyberStar: :(<br />
[12:35] OtakuMegane Desu: We already saw bottleneck issues with the parcel overlays on vars and that's just a 2D mapping<br />
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya we are using this stuff in ways it was never intended to be used<br />
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: i changed that neb on the avnmerge<br />
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: cool<br />
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: but i still don't like the code for terrain<br />
[12:36] OtakuMegane Desu: I don't know that anyone really does. We're just stuck with it for now<br />
[12:36] Ubit Umarov: i was changing it for avn when the merge arrived :)<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: I think it can get better<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: and will eventually<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: but it will take time<br />
[12:36] OtakuMegane Desu: I just wish you could make caves and stuff<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: all of this takes a lot of time<br />
[12:36] PcTek CyberStar: hmmm<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of work<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: and devs only have so many sets of eyes and arms<br />
[12:36] Ubit Umarov: bah u do not want caves :p<br />
[12:36] OtakuMegane Desu: That's probably my only true complaint. But it's a limitation of using heightmaps<br />
[12:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not in this live. mabye you can build opensim on top of soemthing else someday<br />
[12:37] PcTek CyberStar: hmmmmm<br />
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: well modern heightmaps have a flags field<br />
[12:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one thng I'd really love to see which was discussed at one time was water heighmaps too<br />
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: one it no collide :)<br />
[12:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *heightmaps<br />
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: but viewers will not suport that bahh<br />
[12:37] Marcus Llewellyn: We need a hieghtmap format with 1024 layers. One for each vertical meter. >:)<br />
[12:37] Nebadon Izumi: personally i dont see how water heightmaps could work<br />
[12:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, currently water is a single flat plane<br />
[12:38] Nebadon Izumi: you would not get the results you want<br />
[12:38] OtakuMegane Desu: I'd be good for someone to make the "Linden water" applicable to other surfaces instead of just the single water height.<br />
[12:38] Nebadon Izumi: if you have ever tried making water like that in blender<br />
[12:38] Nebadon Izumi: you would fin instant failure<br />
[12:38] Marcus Llewellyn: Honestly, I would be happier just getting rid of water altogether, and doing my own in mesh.<br />
[12:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have<br />
[12:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do waater in Blender quite often<br />
[12:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: s/l water has apability<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: would definitel need to have some kind of mechnism to keep water and terrain from stacking<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: which will happen a lot with 2 hieghmaps stacked<br />
[12:39] Marcus Llewellyn: The only downside is that we need volumetric effects for under the water. That would need viewer dev cooperation, though.<br />
[12:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: capability<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: stacking hieghtmaps is a bad idea<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: if you ask me<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: to many problems you couldnt resolve<br />
[12:39] Marcus Llewellyn: Gawd yes that's a bad idea. I was totally, completely joking when I suggedted mayered heightmaps. lol<br />
[12:39] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[12:40] Nebadon Izumi: z order is a bitch<br />
[12:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, currently you can set water level on a per-region basis<br />
[12:40] Nebadon Izumi: especially with transparent<br />
[12:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would just be nice to have finer control over that<br />
[12:40] PcTek CyberStar: maybe if we charge $20 a month for sims, we could hire a part time developer<br />
[12:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Use alpha masking instead of alpha blending. z-fighting goes away.<br />
[12:40] Nebadon Izumi: true<br />
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: seems ll considered that but gaveup<br />
[12:41] Nebadon Izumi: ive been switching all my trees to that<br />
[12:41] PcTek CyberStar: 5,000 sims x 20.00 = 100,000.00<br />
[12:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: a more scaled build , and betetr avatar camera are important too.<br />
[12:41] OtakuMegane Desu: People have been asking for better water control for a very long time even back into SL<br />
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: the llRaw format as a water map<br />
[12:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[12:41] OtakuMegane Desu: I would love to have the nice water in lakes and stuff instead of just the one sea level<br />
[12:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: water is one of the hardest visual effects to achieve<br />
[12:41] Marcus Llewellyn: It doesn't solve problems like a river flowing sideways, though. Mesh can address that.<br />
[12:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Could that be applied like a texture on a prim?<br />
[12:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Using specular and normal maps, you can do pretty decent water on any old prim.<br />
[12:42] PcTek CyberStar: fubarr is building in osg again, for those who dont know, he is currently on the isle of barr.<br />
[12:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya i saw awesome water demo<br />
[12:42] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[12:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this is what I'd love to be able to do: http://www.flash-filter.net/rain-drop-water-effect.phtml<br />
[12:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Look to new grids for that<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeCdepfZA-g<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: here it is<br />
[12:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Ohhh, pretties...<br />
[12:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume that's using normal + specular maps<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: this is how water should be done<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: with mesh and materials<br />
[12:45] Marcus Llewellyn: Amen<br />
[12:45] PcTek CyberStar: oh im so mad right now.<br />
[12:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: except you can't script any changes to it<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Hn8F-RYi8<br />
[12:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since advanced mats can't be scripted in Opensim<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: yea yet anyway<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: you can animate them here though<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: so even though you cant script changes<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: you can script water<br />
[12:46] PcTek CyberStar: how do they get all the best stuff?<br />
[12:46] PcTek CyberStar: :O<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: we can do that here<br />
[12:46] PcTek CyberStar: we're the first grid<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: everything i showed in tose videos<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: can be done in opensim<br />
[12:47] Nebadon Izumi: it just requires the talent to do so<br />
[12:47] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br />
[12:47] Nebadon Izumi: which is not easily attained<br />
[12:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and mabye different viewer<br />
[12:48] OtakuMegane Desu: Just about everything that can be done in SL can be done here. SL simply has a very large pool of users to draw from.<br />
[12:48] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[12:48] PcTek CyberStar: yes and if you are having issues with cpu use being super high in your viewer try the cooperative switch<br />
[12:48] Nebadon Izumi: most of this stuff is done by highly skilled professionals<br />
[12:48] PcTek CyberStar: like someviewer.exe --cooperative 50<br />
[12:49] Marcus Llewellyn: I hear Alt-F4 can speed it up a lot too. :P)<br />
[12:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:49] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[12:49] PcTek CyberStar: marcus this is a real switch<br />
[12:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:50] PcTek CyberStar: smart alex<br />
[12:50] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:50] OtakuMegane Desu: On the terrain tool issues: It looks like Robert did a lot of stuff with terrain in early-mid 2014, including some stuff with update sending. One of those may have broken stuff.<br />
[12:50] Nebadon Izumi: class troll move, fun in first person shooter games<br />
[12:50] PcTek CyberStar: ...<br />
[12:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Otaku: yes, that's roughly when I think it got broken<br />
[12:51] PcTek CyberStar: well at least his physics idea worked out great<br />
[12:51] Marcus Llewellyn: I think that the Hayes disconnect via IRC came first. ;)<br />
[12:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I wasn't doing much (any) terraforming at that time<br />
[12:51] Ubit Umarov: last change i seen i flatten was around 2009<br />
[12:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea those tools havent changed<br />
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is changes to how var terrain works<br />
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: have added strain<br />
[12:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess what I should do is switch to ODE and see if it has the same issues<br />
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: maybe that distance limiter things that was added<br />
[12:52] PcTek CyberStar: we need to get lani's clone machine and use it on robert.<br />
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: Misterblue addedsomething that kind of puts focus just around your avatar<br />
[12:52] PcTek CyberStar: give the entire grid an upgrade<br />
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: maybe that is part of the problem<br />
[12:52] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. He was doing a bunch of var fixing in that time frame and much of the terrain stuff was related to the issues vars brought to the table<br />
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: he was changing how terrain loads in vars<br />
[12:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there as also a commit at allow you do change height via console of an area<br />
[12:53] Nebadon Izumi: so i imagine this plays a factor in recent changes to tools<br />
[12:53] Nebadon Izumi: maybe threading or something<br />
[12:53] Marcus Llewellyn decides to go with "something" as the safe bet. :)<br />
[12:53] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is a house of cards for sure<br />
[12:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the weird thing is in behaviour of raise vs lower<br />
[12:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: raise is extremely weak vs lower is extremely strong<br />
[12:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and you'd *think* that would just be a sign change<br />
[12:54] Ubit Umarov: ohh its gravity!!<br />
[12:54] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
[12:54] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[12:54] PcTek CyberStar: it sur is<br />
[12:54] PcTek CyberStar: omg<br />
[12:54] PcTek CyberStar: look at line #1,287,346,522<br />
[12:54] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:54] Marcus Llewellyn notices that this meeting is now two hours long. :)<br />
[12:55] OtakuMegane Desu: 42f5054408bbd928ea2422dd9abc04ee57c80dc looks like it might be something that could affect tool response?<br />
[12:55] Nebadon Izumi: yea long meeting today<br />
[12:55] PcTek CyberStar: i blame it on whaka, for trying to get hi sim fixed.<br />
[12:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:55] OtakuMegane Desu: As I've been thinking, I'm not sure if the tools themselves have been broken, rather they may respond differently with updates.<br />
[12:56] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I sadly do have to head out<br />
[12:56] Nebadon Izumi: i have a mountain of work over the next 5-6 days<br />
[12:56] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[12:56] OtakuMegane Desu: Yay<br />
[12:56] PcTek CyberStar: goodbye Nebadon, please give serious thought to guiding whaka step by step through getting his crashed sim up and running.<br />
[12:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, I need to go pretend to be productive as well<br />
[12:56] Nebadon Izumi: I wont have time for that PcTek<br />
[12:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a good week eveyrone<br />
[12:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Yes. Productive. ;)<br />
[12:56] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have questions hop on IRC<br />
[12:56] Nebadon Izumi: lots of helpful folks<br />
[12:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well. i better move too. something todo<br />
[12:56] Nebadon Izumi: and if Ican I will<br />
[12:56] PcTek CyberStar: thank you<br />
[12:56] Nebadon Izumi: but my time is limited at the moment<br />
[12:57] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: Misterblue robert did do some fixes but guess they reverted<br />
[12:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Ciaoo Neb, I'll posting the log in some minutes<br />
[12:57] Nebadon Izumi: thanks Sheera<br />
[12:57] Nebadon Izumi: see you all next week or perhaps on IRC<br />
</pre><br />
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<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-15Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-152015-10-25T22:59:36Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[10:59] Lani Global: today, i hope to ask for help.<br />
[10:59] Lani Global: a problem we have in opensim Vars<br />
[10:59] Lani Global: the problem is in the viewer<br />
[11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what problem you have lani ?<br />
[11:00] Lani Global: can not see very far in the Var region<br />
[11:00] Lani Global: i have a snapshot view of the problem<br />
[11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what is not far ?<br />
[11:02] Lani Global: An image of the viewer problem in OpenSim Var regions. The view is cut off at about 1000m distance. So, the objects and terrain are transparent beyond 1000m. http://gallery.osgrid.org/main.php?g2_itemId=106870<br />
[11:02] Lani Global: sky and void water shows through terrain and objects.<br />
[11:02] Marcus Llewellyn: That's a viewer problem. and it probably has something to do with the skydome. You can't see past teh skydoe, which is 1024m wide.<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh. i never use a draw disastance that far<br />
[11:03] Lani Global: it is not connected to Draw Distance.<br />
[11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: It is the skydome.<br />
[11:03] Lani Global: yes, skydome possibly, but it is very ugly<br />
[11:04] Lani Global: IF OpenSim has Var regions, THEN we should have viewers that can see Var regions.<br />
[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: We do. We just can't see farther than 1024m. ;)<br />
[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: And that's a viewer issue.<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: fly closer ?<br />
[11:04] Lani Global: i will show you a flight altitude of 128m<br />
[11:05] Lani Global: this is flight altitude = 512m http://gallery.osgrid.org/main.php?g2_itemId=106873<br />
[11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: I've seen it. One of the first things I did with a var was to bring in elevation data for Arizona's Barringer Crater, at RL scale. It sucked, because you couldn't stand on one side of the crater, and see the other side.<br />
[11:06] Lani Global: flight altitude = 128m http://gallery.osgrid.org/main.php?g2_itemId=106870<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have only 3x3 var. so hard to test<br />
[11:06] Lani Global: yes, Marcus. this also is a problem in "Normal Size" regions with Surrounds of mountains.<br />
[11:07] Lani Global: we did not see this problem before Viewer V3<br />
[11:08] Lani Global: it was a hard coded "feature" brought in by LL viewer code, for the "Privacy" features along with Parcel Privacy<br />
[11:08] Lani Global: and other SkyDome or Skybox stuff<br />
[11:08] Lani Global: so, now we need to figure out how to remove this, or at least make it further way, such as 2048m for OpenSim use.<br />
[11:09] Lani Global: it is very ugly, and it kills the immersive experience in OpenSim.<br />
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: YOu're preaching to the choir. Also to people who can't do anything about it. ;)<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: with the wrong SL scale immersive is anyway far away.<br />
[11:10] Lani Global: i've talked with 3 viewer devs about it.<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What feature are you discussing?<br />
[11:10] Lani Global: none of the viewer devs even knew about it!<br />
[11:11] Lani Global: it was hidden code that LL put in<br />
[11:11] Lani Global: sneaky<br />
[11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: In a var region, land or objects farther than 1024m away can get cut out of view because of the skydome.<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I never set my draw distance that high.<br />
[11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: Most sane people don't. ;)<br />
[11:12] Lani Global: ok, so, there is interest in the Onlook viewer, right? perhaps this can be fixed.<br />
[11:12] Lani Global: draw distance has nothing to do with this<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Singularity only allows you to set draw to a max of 1024m.<br />
[11:13] Shez Oyen: I think that can be over ridden in debug<br />
[11:13] Lani Global: how?<br />
[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: But there are edge cases. Say you import DEM elevation data, and want to be able to walk around it at RL scale. You might have just terrain and a few simple objects, and a very high view distance.<br />
[11:13] Shez Oyen: Render farclip<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tyr dd2048 ?<br />
[11:14] Shez Oyen: RenderFarClip<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ., dd 2048<br />
[11:14] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: type dd 2048 in chat and see<br />
[11:14] Shez Oyen: Hi Alicia :)<br />
[11:14] Lani Global: it is common in many regions that are doing flight or airplane things, to have very few objects rezzed, and in this case, there is no problem with large draw distance<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats killing my frasmerate onoy 13 left<br />
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: hi<br />
[11:15] Lani Global: hi Ubit!<br />
[11:15] Lani Global: IF OpenSim has Var regions, THEN it should be possible to have a viewer that can see Var regions.<br />
[11:15] Hippo Finesmith: apologies for lateness<br />
[11:16] Lani Global: if there is a real workaround for this problem, it would be wonderful to publish it.<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not use a dome ? but just windlight<br />
[11:17] Shez Oyen: I never tried pusing it over 1024 either.<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm only seeing about 1 sim over.<br />
[11:18] Lani Global: see example in this image http://gallery.osgrid.org/main.php?g2_itemId=106870&g2_imageViewsIndex=1<br />
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: view terrain isnt that easy<br />
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: We're not talking about seeing into a neighbor, but across a large var. Different scenario.<br />
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: at moment avinantion merge as view range limited to 512m<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and 512 is already very far<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: most systems cannot handly 256<br />
[11:19] Ubit Umarov: but well.. viewers want to show all terrain...<br />
[11:19] Lani Global: draw distance is not this problem<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon is on his way<br />
[11:20] vegaslon plutonian: I bet you could see further if you disable rendering of sky<br />
[11:20] Shez Oyen: Cool<br />
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: neighbors region is related to viewrange<br />
[11:20] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:20] Shez Oyen: Speak of the devil.. Hi Neb :)<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone, sorry I am late, 5 minute trip to store turned into 45 minute adventure lol<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Unless it is a mountain or big skyscraper I would never expect, or probably ever see anything that far from me.<br />
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: for now its only counted from region edges, but it will be from avatar position, one day :(<br />
[11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi neb<br />
[11:21] Hippo Finesmith: hi neb<br />
[11:21] Lani Global: is there any possibility of working with Onlook viewer to fix this problem?<br />
[11:21] Ubit Umarov: ( also only checked on entering regions now.. )<br />
[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: 50 demerits for House Izumi.<br />
[11:22] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: so, the skydome should be set to dd + some additional distance?<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, that did it. You pushed him off. :)<br />
[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm not actually sure why the skydome exists. You can, for example, fly above the darn thing.<br />
[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: It may be a leftover of pre-windlight days.<br />
[11:23] Lani Global: example on this prim here on my avi<br />
[11:23] vegaslon plutonian: clouds have to be rendered some place<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, when you go up too high the sky just turns black.<br />
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: ( well current viewers also display ugly things )<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:24] Lani Global: this is a view from flight altitude 512m, you can not see much of the ground terrain.<br />
[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm not sure the skydome and the windlight sky are the same thing. But I really dunno... this convo needs a viewer dev r two who're familiar with rendering, or we're all just shouting in the wind. :)<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Lani, how far do you expect to be able to see?<br />
[11:25] Lani Global: 2048m or 4096m<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon is having trouble getting here.<br />
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: yeack suicidal :)<br />
[11:25] Lani Global: not a problem in regions that very few prims.<br />
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: well for now viewers don't limit terrain view range..<br />
[11:26] Hippo Finesmith: Andrew when you get a min plz check pm :)<br />
[11:26] Lani Global: many people have video and computer capability to see that<br />
[11:26] Lani Global: before viewer V3, we could see 16km.<br />
[11:26] Lani Global: and there were no problems<br />
[11:26] Lani Global: yes, it took some time to rezz.<br />
[11:27] Lani Global: it has been common for airplane flyers to use 2048m Draw Distance<br />
[11:27] Lani Global: for many years<br />
[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well don't know at sl last time i tested on mainland with 512m fs crashed<br />
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: just 512m :)<br />
[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: That's how you know FS is working. It crashes. :)<br />
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[11:29] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: WB Neb<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: sheesh not my day<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: You made it.<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: computer crashed hard<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, that's it. Meeting is over.<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i can do 1024 in SL. but who want todo 1024m if your framerate drops below 30fps ?<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: hehehe<br />
[11:29] Shez Oyen: oh dear<br />
[11:29] Lani Global: so, who are the Viewer developers that might be interested in use of the viewer in OpenSim Var?<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza + Giant Blender Model open = bad day<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, not neough graphics memory neb ?<br />
[11:30] Shez Oyen: heh<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i have 4gb gpu and 24gb ram<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: and its not enough<br />
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Lani, your best bets are prolly Alchemy or SIngularity.<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: blender is regularly using 20gb ram<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: heh<br />
[11:30] Lani Global: http://gallery.osgrid.org/main.php?g2_itemId=106873<br />
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Singularity viewer doesn't let me use voice chat to talk with other people. I can hear other people though.<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, if that's true i betetr get 16GB more in the next months<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: next machine will have 64gb ram<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nah 32GB sound sfar enough for me<br />
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: Can I have your old one? ;)<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: [http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/phase2/demo/img/uv2_hd_blender_022.png]<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: this is what i had open when machine crashed<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: [http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/phase2/demo/img/uv2_hd_blender_021.png]<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha, then am safe with 16-32GB<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: anyway I was saying before i crashed earlier, I assume everyone probably already knows, but if you do not know, Ubit is not a core developer for opensimlator :)<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: not=now*<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: sorry hehe bad typo<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
[11:33] Lani Global: \Yay/ Ubit!<br />
[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: There goes the neighborhood. ;)<br />
[11:34] Shez Oyen: Thank you Ubit :)<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: he is in the process of merging 2 years of Avination opensimulator improvements into core<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: along with some help from Melanie and Misterblue<br />
[11:34] Lani Global: wow<br />
[11:34] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
[11:34] Shez Oyen: Wonderful!<br />
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I was thinking there should be a group for the core devs so they can wear role tags indentifying them as such (if they so choose)<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: aactually there is<br />
[11:34] vegaslon plutonian: so finally get the rest of the vehicle region crossing code?<br />
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: and with help from several other people testing that massive merge.<br />
[11:35] Shez Oyen: yes!<br />
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Vehicle crossing is one of many improvements coming.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: well there was a dev group here<br />
[11:35] Lani Global: i like Ubit's new ODE Var :)<br />
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: ive little cars crossing with xengine<br />
[11:35] Ubit Umarov: main issue is lag<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I must have removed myself or something<br />
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: But it comes with a tweaked version of ODE.<br />
[11:35] Shez Oyen: praise (insert your godname here)!<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: we can start a new one though :)<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: There is an OpenSimulator Developers group but no special roles in i.<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yea I imagine improving vehcile border crossing is no easy task<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: bah, my darn t key.<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: handing off a lot of info in a small window<br />
[11:36] Ubit Umarov: those crossings should also work with bullet.. possible old ode<br />
[11:36] Lani Global: maybe we will soon be able to fly or drive across the grid.<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: will multi person vehicles cross as well?<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i remember the SL birthday party Baloon rides<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: ive been alone testing neb :)<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: you could get on a baloon and fly all over the 21 or so birthday sims<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: code is there for N avatars<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea I wish i had more time for testing at the moment<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: damn work<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: cool<br />
[11:37] vegaslon plutonian: I mean I got vehicle crossing working using lsl scripts and the half finished crossing code but people would look forward to it working without a bunch of lsl hacks<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: is the avinationmerge branch working now?<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: just each one adds even more lag...<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: are the migrations in?<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: can i upgrade Sisyphus and continue testing?<br />
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: migrations are in yes<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool i will try to get sisyphus moved over today<br />
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: at moment i see issues with hg<br />
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: something to except since we dont have hg at avn<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: consult with diva on that<br />
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: on windows here, things seem working...<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: new physics engine too<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: maybe you can talk about that?<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, most of the migrations are in. I found a missing one last night. It is possible there might be others.<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool thanks Andrew<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: glad others are testing<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:39] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev a6012a3: 2015-09-11 09:49:33 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: my time for testing is limited due to work at the moment<br />
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: u didn't pusj yr fixes andrew :)<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I want to get back to working on my Events module.<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: gotta pay the bills :)<br />
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Avination apparently just tacks on rows to their DB tables whenever someone sneezes. ;)<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I could do that. I wasn't sure if you were going to.<br />
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: well andrew is having issues i don't see on windoes..<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: The only issue is I don't hear a sound when I drop a physical prim on to the land.<br />
[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: The horror!<br />
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: even on sandbox collision sounds dont work for im or map...<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: thats not fully surprsing<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: guess he as a mess on inis :p<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: when I made the sound set for opensimulator long time ago<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: at the time we still were not allowed to look at viewer code<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: i have a problem with group creation but that may not be an OS code issue.<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: and only like 75% of the sound uuids were documented<br />
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: i made new uuids ned<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: we were not allowed to look at the viewer code to get the remaining uuids<br />
[11:41] Ubit Umarov: i send those sounds as normal sounds<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: so i could not make sounds for those<br />
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm wondering if I may be missing sound files<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: cool<br />
[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Doesn't the viewer expect some asset UUIDs to be immutable?<br />
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: you gave us the sounds we gave you back that pack at bin/assets/collision...<br />
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: collision sounds are triggered by physics<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i wish someone made a asset owner name url corrector. every time at startup tehr elot's of aulty ones http:\\......../<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: btw, for those wondering about the big merge, it consists of 3,273 commits (after you exclude code merges from the main OS branch)<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: this was ages ago I recall making the xml by hand actually<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: was a nightmare I would not want to repeat<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: well that one i did lol<br />
[11:43] Ubit Umarov: used a hack on the uuids :)<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya adding default assets is such a pain<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i wish there was an easier way to do tat<br />
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: yeap and u need to put those on grid assets...<br />
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: but well<br />
[11:44] Ubit Umarov: collision sounds may need a option to turn them OFF lol<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think FS have that<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and singularity too. i neve r hear any<br />
[11:45] Lani Global: viewer has it<br />
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: i don't use those<br />
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: when i did that collision sounds are as other prim sounds<br />
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: so that will not work.. for now at least<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: the one sound i recall for sure not doing is footsteps<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: when walking<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it was a uuid hard coded in viewer<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: that no one ever documeted on wiki<br />
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: yeap but thats on another code path<br />
[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn isn't a fan of footsteps.<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I used to hear footsteps but I haven't heard them in a while.<br />
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: its viewer triggered sound i think<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: if you log into SL first<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: and get it cached then you hear them here<br />
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, that would make it easy to find the UUID for the footsteps sound<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yea now we can look at viewer code its easy heh<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: at the time we had a very no core devs allowed to look at viewer code policy<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: That too if someone wants to dig through another big buch of code.<br />
[11:49] Shez Oyen: what a stupid policy<br />
[11:49] Shez Oyen: who would make that rule?<br />
[11:49] Ubit Umarov: other avn things also seem to work<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: not really at the tmie gplv2 and BSD was a bad combo<br />
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ubODE seems to work.. providing also physics sits<br />
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: and information for those sounds..<br />
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: possible still the only engine that does cross vehicles for now<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea hopefuly bulletsim follows soon<br />
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: should be easy..<br />
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: ( possible already works. not sure )<br />
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: that option to hide avatars inside a parcel also seems to work<br />
[11:52] vegaslon plutonian: only problem bulletsim really has is that it does not keep the vehicle params after the cross so you have to set them again<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: those are passed as prim properties?<br />
[11:52] Ubit Umarov: yeap that was a issue with core<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like something that should be easy(?) to fix.<br />
[11:53] Lani Global: tweet of this meeting https://twitter.com/LaniGlobal/status/643859904269295617<br />
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: vehicles params are now stored and passed on crossings<br />
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: was one of the missing migrations itens :)<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: nice, ya i imagine incorporating that into bulletsim wont be hard<br />
[11:54] vegaslon plutonian: so just need bulletsim to apply them then<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: since we already have working example :)<br />
[11:54] Ubit Umarov: think i placed the needed code at its front door :)<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: UBPS<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Is tehre a way to replace http:\\ for http:// ? worse thing i tried it region side. but i think it's also wronmg grid side<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: Ubit Postal Services :P<br />
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, where do you see the \\ being used?<br />
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: well this merge was push into a core branch so more ppl can help fixing and texting<br />
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: testing<br />
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: specially on those dark areas i know nothing about :)<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yea which turns out was a great idea :)<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: glad we didnt go straight to master<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: when the simulator is started on metropolis<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's on pile of objects on my regions<br />
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: nopes it needs care bf getting into master<br />
[11:59] vegaslon plutonian: I feel sorry for moses, if they had any hope of compatability this may blow it out of the water<br />
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ohh why ?<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yea they have some hard choices ahead<br />
[11:59] Lani Global: many forks in the salad.<br />
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: if they are doing physics dont see a issue<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: yea ultimately what we are doing would benefit them<br />
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well i did messed up those stats that showed up in master...<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: however they dont use core simulator<br />
[12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: It depends. If they have (or plan to) do things like their PhysX work as modules, as was rather pointedly recommended by core devs, they shouldn't have a problem.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: they use simiangrid<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: someone will have to bring simiangrid up to date<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: we cant worry about that though<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: They would be better of waiting until more testing has been done on this mega dump/merge.<br />
[12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Pretty much, that's up to MOSES. I think all the original maintainers/devs of simiangrid are gone.<br />
[12:01] vegaslon plutonian: nope, they are just getting people excited<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i think if moses does ultimately fork in an incompatible way<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: its very likely simiangrid will be removed from opensimulator all together<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: it would be no turning back at that point<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: they are the only ones who use it<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen references to it in the ini files. What is simiangrid?<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: nothing definite about that of course but I cant really see it not happening either<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: its a PHP Robust replacement<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, ok.<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that pretty much only MOSES uses anymore<br />
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Also has a web frontend.<br />
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: hmmm with someone i found a issue and a "incompatibilty with ubOde on meshs<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it was a product of Intels Science Sim<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: sort of like wiredux, or some stuff diva has done.<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya MOSES has evenexpanded it even further<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: with their own web portal<br />
[12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: It was bigger.. .like Neb said, in addition to a web UI, it was a complete service replacement. Assets, inventory, etc.<br />
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: seems some ppl is uplading meshs without a high res physics mesh, and current opensim in that case uses one from the visual meshs...<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: MGM2 is the name of thier web interface<br />
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: ubODE will not do that... no high res physics mesh then its convex period :)<br />
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: the way current master is doing is not compatible with viewers<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a lot of hidden or missing info on the best way to upload mesh. Not everyone who uploads mesh knows the best way to create a model and how to upload it.<br />
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: and actually there is no saving<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: yea best is very subjective too though :)<br />
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: if you upload a mesh telling physics to use the high lod<br />
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah. The viewers aree to blame for that. They have dialogs setup foor a very SL specific upload workflow. OpenSim's does *not* match that, and really should have customized mesh upload dialogs.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i generally do select file for physics<br />
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Without that, people will remain confused.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: and load the same collada<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Basic things like limits on size of saved file, or number of faces. What settings to use, or not, in the upload dialog.<br />
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: the physis mesh data block will point to the visual mesh anyway<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: unless i make a special physics collada<br />
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: no duplication of data, i think...<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: for stuff like terrain its pretty vital you use the highest quality for physics<br />
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I've been using "from file" for physics on mesh objects.<br />
[12:07] Ubit Umarov: yeap.. upload telling to use the high lod :)<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: I personally dont like the viewer making any decisions for me<br />
[12:08] Marcus Llewellyn: This is another discussion that really needs viewer devs present. :/<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: you really need to lay everything out in a way that removes al choice for the viewer<br />
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Where are they hiding out these days?<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: accept to just upload it as is<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise its a bad day pretty much :)<br />
[12:08] Ubit Umarov: think viewer tries to do that on the high lods<br />
[12:08] Marcus Llewellyn: We have a few viewers devs that hang out in #opensim-dev. Ones from FS, Singularity, and Alchemy for sure.<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: viewer makes pretty bad choices, though I have t say too though after messing with unity<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: LL did an amazing job at creating a system where even the crappiest of models<br />
[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: rare use the viewer generated physics<br />
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen yellow text on the region console even on sculpties when it complains about something related to meshing them.<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: looks like it should<br />
[12:09] Ubit Umarov: it does cook the convex hull :)<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of the stuff i have made looks perfect in opensim and blender<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: but not in Unity<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: main issue on high lods is that meshs have low resolution<br />
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: 16bits in think<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yea and for physics its important you stay in te 16 bit range<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: because the viewer is not smart enough to make multiple physics mesh<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: you just get a ton of artifacts<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: triangle city i call it<br />
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I work in a modelling program tha doesn't care about triangles. When I go to pull it in to blender that is when I get triangle info for the model format I use to export so Blender can load it.<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: yes if you are talking about Rhino<br />
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: well was just a warning.. ubODE will not look to visual lod meshs<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: Rhino to OpenSim == TheSuck!<br />
[12:11] Ubit Umarov: no physics higher res mesh then its convex :)<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: doable but its a lot of wor<br />
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Support STEP models! :)<br />
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: STEP format that is.<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of the models i deal with are BIM<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its so painful<br />
[12:12] Marcus Llewellyn: Rhino is *not* meant for game engine ready models. Not remotely. LOL! At best, you create a high poly model in Rhino to bake materials from in a low poly version in something like Blender<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: [http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/phase2/demo/img/uv2_hd_blender_021.png]<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: that train station / hotel is from Rhino<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its 2 million vertices<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
[12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: That's... a lot of polys for what I'm looking at. :/<br />
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Initial conversion to Blender results in huge numbers of vertices/faces and I have to start decimating it to try and get it under control for upload to ta grid.<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: yea its a lot of work Andrew<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty much what I do all day long<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, how big was the file before you put it in to Blender?<br />
[12:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Decimation will only get you so far, with so much quality. The *right( way to do is is to roll up your sleeves, and retopologize by hand.<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: 150mb or something<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Not too bad.<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: right now my entire blender file is about 500mb<br />
[12:14] Hippo Finesmith: hey Andrew didnt you do some work on groups to<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, you have (or are) using Rhino?<br />
[12:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1.95m verticles to much ? :)<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew no i used the 90 day trial to convert that model<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: someone sent me file in rhino forma<br />
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Hippo, I use the xmlrpc webbased group system but not worked on it that much.<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: only time i had to ever use Rhino<br />
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, ah, ok.<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: but i totally experienced your pain :)<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt fun<br />
[12:15] Hippo Finesmith: thats what im looking for :) the one you worked on<br />
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: If your trial runs out I can help. I bought the program some time ago.<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks i will keep thatin mind<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya my trial ran out long ago<br />
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: The trial is limited to 25 saves, IIRC<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya i just did an export<br />
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I think that counts as a save.<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: oh maybe i only did it like 2-3 times<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: i just exported it in 100% quality<br />
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: becasue i tried reducing it, didnt look right in blender<br />
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: When I first tried Rhino the trial was just based on date restriction and not limit on saves, AFAICR.<br />
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh wow, i see a hippo , waves<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I need to run, i have ton of work to get done before tomorrow morning<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: I'll be on iRC should anyone need me<br />
[12:19] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I'll upload the log ...<br />
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: which groups system is used here on osgrid, nebadon?<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: thanks Sheera<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: did you stream today marcus?<br />
[12:20] Marcus Llewellyn: I did, yes.<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: nice thanks<br />
[12:20] Marcus Llewellyn: But mostly as a test.<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: you figure out archiving?<br />
[12:20] Marcus Llewellyn: We'll find out when I stop streaming. lol<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: ah haha ya cool<br />
[12:20] Marcus Llewellyn: I did do a local recording as well this time.<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[12:20] Hippo Finesmith: hi Rira<br />
[12:20] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[12:21] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: But I guess, the text based log has it's merits still ...<br />
[12:21] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't wanna put my stuff on the wiki or nothing until I can be sure that I can reliably do this every week.<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea no worries, thanks for testing it out<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: pretty cool for sure<br />
[12:22] Marcus Llewellyn: It seens like every time I run that chat log trhough my prettifying utility, it experiences a new exception. lol<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: next time i'll be sure to log in with avatar who has 65 chinese symbols for a name :P<br />
[12:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Do! lol<br />
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: btw u thinkg there still many mega regions in use?<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Ubit, unlikely but probably some<br />
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
[12:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Paart of the problem is that I don't get to test it enough. LBSA is somewhat helpful. The friday party was a great test for it last week. It'll get there.<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: nice, ok well anyone needs me give me shout on IRC<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: ill see it eventually :)<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi flüstert: back to work I go :)<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-08Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-082015-10-25T22:57:55Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: sorry im late everyone<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: deep into blender<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/phase2/demo/img/uv2_hd_blender_005.png<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/phase2/demo/img/uv2_hd_blender_006.png<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: did you see today's "blender challenge"?<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: no what is it?<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, that is a bit of a black hole from which you might never be seen again. :)<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: take a cube, subsurf it 2 levels, apply, the using ONLY sculpting tools turn it back into a cube and time yourself<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: that would be pretty easy I think<br />
[11:13] vegaslon plutonian: yep<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a LOT harder than you'd think<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, question. Is there a list of console commands that have been changed/added/removed over the last few releases.<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: in my head it is anyway<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it tooke me close to 30 minutes to get it vaguely cube-like again<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hmm geez i doubt it plugh, but anything is possible<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: maybe the release notes might be helpful<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you use other tools it's super easy<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, I can think of many other things I'd rather do.<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: in my head i feel likei could make it a cube in 5-10 minutes<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: using ortho view<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's an interesting challenge though<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and camera snap<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: use b to high light regions<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, ok. I'm not sure if that sort of thing has always been mentioned in the release notes.<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ten s > z > 0<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: s > y > 0<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: to flatten<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you didn't read the rules....using ONLY SCULPTING TOOLS<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: oooh i see<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: well hmm<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. That's not sculpting tool.<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: tricky but doable<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: way harder than you'd think<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the sculpting tools in general are hard to use<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I wasn't limited to sculpt tools I'd do exactly what you said and it would take a couple minutes<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i never quite get the results I want<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: That's one of the reasons I do my modelling in a different program. :)<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: the trick is to have very good triangle layout of your mesh<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I try to do some of those challenges because one can sometimes learn new techniques, though, that can come in handy<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: experience is the best way to learn blender<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: repeating that experience over and over<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: about 6000 times<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, and if you don't use it for a while you forget.<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Bringing it back to OS for a moment, what are the chances of mega support being dropped from the next release?<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway....what's new an exciting in the Opensim dev side of things?<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: not sure I think we need to hear back from some of the people who -1 it like Oren<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if its not this release its definitely next release I think mega regions will go<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there a target date for "this release"?<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I was starting to think perhaps it won't be dropped this time around but in the following release<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, "Real Soon Now" ;)<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I do not think so yet<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol<br />
[11:19] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: some one submitted a patch to make ode work with vars i think<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yea Ubit was working on that<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, that was one of the -1's for dropping megas.<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes....and Dan Banner tested it somewhat and says it seems to be working fine<br />
[11:20] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: saw it on irc but didnt have time to look any closer than that<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Mega's, why would you use that problem sim type<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: The claim is that some things still work better in megas than vars<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one major downside to var is being limited to only the one terrain texture for the entire area<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Kitely still uses ODE physics for various reasons and there was mention that, until recently, ODE wouldn't work in vars.<br />
[11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: it will be good to get rid of the confusing code needed to support megas<br />
[11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: From everything I've experienced, within the region vars are much better than megas.<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea megas were always a hack<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: shouldnt be something anyone is relying on anymore<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be a good thing if it cleans up the code base.<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its easy to convert to var<br />
[11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: Do vars still have some issues when adjacent to different-sized regions/vars? I haven't tested it for a while<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but so did megas<br />
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes, vars are better<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what would be *really* nice is finding a way to make terrain texture a parcel setting (but of course that would require a viewer change)<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: megas were even worse though<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: with neighbors<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: megs did too? I thought someone said they didn't<br />
[11:22] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev bba7942: 2015-09-05 10:29:18 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: maybe it got fixed I dunno<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i remmber at one point neighbors could only se the SW region<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: if they were close enough<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: if your mega was big enough<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: a standard 256 neighbor would jus see ocean<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: with megas<br />
[11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Granted so far the only real issue I've noticed is weird things with viewing and every so often moving between the regions. Otherwise they don't seem to cause instability or such.<br />
[11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Vars just have trouble interacting with other sizes<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there is still an issue with TP's between vars and regular regions in 0.8<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats another thing with megas<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only problems I see with var is the usual issue of too much stuff, too few server resources<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that damn double teleport<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: was just saying he lets crash you now..<br />
[11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: but ya soon they will be shelved<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: If mega support may be dropped I'm hoping it will focus more attention on fixing the issues in vars.<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: the bad of vars is far less than the bad of megas<br />
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: it's not like anyone (besides Oren) was fixing bugs in megas...<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I know in megas too alot of LSL didnt work right<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: like the terrain events<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: didnt work<br />
[11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: Well when people knew vars were coming for a good while, it didn't make sense to put a lot of work into a kludge that wasn't going to have a purpose in the future<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: that all works in vars now<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: other excuse people have is that vars use more memory or bullet.<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not seen that<br />
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a var running ODE to test that vs BS. I found that avatars start bouncing as they walk along the terrain in a var with ODE<br />
[11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: If vars use more resources than the equivalent mega or individual regions, is a maginal difference.<br />
[11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: I haven't noticed it<br />
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Otaku, it comes and goes a bit.<br />
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: We will need to have people file mantis reports for issues relating to vars.<br />
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Can't fix the issues if we don't know about them.<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately in some of the ODE stuff<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: people got used to working around bugs<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and get mad when they are fixed<br />
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I have only l;ast time weirdness that cpu usage is going up for soem unknown reason and never drops. i thin 8.1.1. is not so good<br />
[11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: cant win or loose with ODE<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't done much with physics scripting.<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to fix physics when eveyrone complains when you fix a bug they are working around for years<br />
[11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: I have nothing against ODE but after using Bullet, I just can't see a reason to ever go back. Granted Idon't have much "legacy" stuff that relies on ODE's mechanics<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: generally no matter what you do people end up having to adjust scripts<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: LL has same problem<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Why not just change it ? if Linden Lab would do that we still where stuck with old problems<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: everyetime they update Havok everyone has to fix their vehicles<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Its like when sit positions were adjusted.<br />
[11:30] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: making Fire with Stones was Yesterday, using ODE-Physics was Yesterday too<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: well we should always allow for several physics engines<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it would be nice to have one that worked really good<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but there is always room for multiple kinds of engines for different tasks<br />
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: not a matter of which is better<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its a matter of which one suits your needs<br />
[11:31] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: true<br />
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe, so far, they are all "broken" in one way or another.<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or which one is actively being worked on and/or maintained....<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: one of our goals right now is to make opensimulator more modular<br />
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: BS seems to be the best bet for Physics going forward.<br />
[11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: No doubt there will be at least a couple choices for physics but Bullet Sim seems to have the best momentum and interest right now.<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: so we can just drop in new functionality<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: with stuff that doesnt have to be in core<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: people can make a module and expand opensim without needing core approval<br />
[11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: Modular is good.<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I saw talk of the work being done to that end.<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: people tend to blame core for holding development back<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there have been a large number of commits in the last week paving the way for some of that it seems<br />
[11:33] vegaslon plutonian: hard to find modules that are not in core<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: when really that is just not true, if we do hold it back its not because we are trying to, its just sorely lacking man hours<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nah, i blame the viewer<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so it will be nice to set it up in a way where more people can develop opensimulator without feeling like core is jamming them up<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: forcing them to fork or whatever<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: just like apache opensim isnt designed to suite just one need<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: apache can run wordpress or your own cloud service etc..<br />
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: At the scale Opensim is reaching into you really don't want any more meshed into the core than necessary. You can do a model like that but far more trouble than a modular system, even counting the work to convert to something more modular.<br />
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: It may make it a little easier to get in to OS and fix things without having to know about the entire code base.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: right now everything is so centered around SL style experience<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be that way forever though<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but ya what we really need is our own viewer<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: that can be just as modular as opensim is too<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats the goal of our OnLook viewer project<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: tat diva and I started<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: Lirucookies worked on it too<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: to be able to program the viewer UI from the simulator<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: so i visit wright paza and I get a special wright plaza hud<br />
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: What programming language is that written in? C++?<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and I can only use mouselook<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i visit another region and its normal SL like experience<br />
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: C++. The fun language. :P<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya the viewer is mostly C++<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe, yeah. :P<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: this way we can truly craft game style experience<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: no need to find and attach huds<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: or maybe in this particular region you dont want any inventory<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: so you disable inventoy buttons<br />
[11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: While C# takes some doing, C++ just seems to have so few people who can really work with it.<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: OMG nebadon is infected by "the experiences" trend :)<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: all controlable from the smulator side<br />
[11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I've gotten in to C# a bit but not C++<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and we could do things like have it force attach a javascript hud too<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: not just LSL stuff<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: or maybe LUA or something<br />
[11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: C++ can dig to such low-level and has such a broad library set it's not easy to get into.<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I still have trouble thinking of JS being used for things other than web pages.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: thats the point<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: you could make webpage style huds<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: cool...so that means you can make advertising appear to fill half the screen every 10 seconds to help pay for the super amazing experience!<br />
[11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: -_-<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that when i visit a region gets force attached on your screen etc..<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: have a World of Warcraft style hud overlay<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: because your sim is an adventure game<br />
[11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: Goatse HUD? lol<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Would be good for RPG and adventure based regions.<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is a lot we can do<br />
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: as long you make sure the hud can be moved. in sl it already happens way to many times the hud is placed wrong. under a window as example<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the idea though is to make the UI completely programable from the simulator side<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so we are not stuck with this singular SL style interface<br />
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hate it anyway that chat cannot be undocked from the viewer<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 hopes it comes with a tutorial of "here's how NOT to design your region's interface"<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: That gets tricky to do when you also have to be cross platform.<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: WAit aine, i dont see your typing because the ads<br />
[11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Also some kind of override or "escape" option. Because you know someone is going to make a trap region or two.<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. A region called "Black Hole" :)<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Invisible HUD<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: You don't need no UI :P<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and people will invariably make them utterly non-friendly for people with any sort of disability<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: So you say you need a UI<br />
[11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: or a nudism region that steals your pants in teleport<br />
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks laughs<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Alice, the get for some people anyway stolen<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: SiezureTron Adblasteder hud 3000 v10.0<br />
[11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: You can probably do the pants stealing already somehow.<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: going to be my first product :P<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the trick is jumping right to v10.0<br />
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i know some one that uses radegast and some times clothes dont load lol<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: It would also make it easier to have a text based UI<br />
[11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: Seriously though, there does need to be some form of override or a way to get out of a region that can't be programmed from the simulator.<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya nothing would be permanant change etc..<br />
[11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: could always just relog tho<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it would only be configured that way in that region<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: teleport home<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: go somewhere else it would change back again<br />
[11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Works if you're on a grid or know a place to go. Otherwise you just keep relogging into the same region<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yea. that should always be enabled.<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ctrl+shift+h always takes you home<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I just open the map and hit the home button<br />
[11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. It doesn't have to be fancy, just a way to escape a troublesome region<br />
[11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: Probably without using the UI<br />
[11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱<br />
[11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱ Goodbye .. وداعا .. Au Revoir .. Arrivederci ✱<br />
[11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱ さようなら ... Auf Wiedersehen ... 안녕 ✱<br />
[11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱ Adeus ... Ciao ... прощай ... Adiós ... 再見 ✱<br />
[11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: cya, Wolfman<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: bye Wolfman :)<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but ya lots of cool things happening<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: some early talks about having another OSCC too, probably scaled down a bit from previous years, only because lack of time for everyone<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its a big commitment<br />
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: I think this is going to be an exciting period coming up as Opensim starts breaking away from being an SL-styled system.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: still not 100% on it, but I suspect we will have another OSCC wether or not is this year I dont know<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think SL's days are numbered<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I think people want something better<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i would do OSCC next year<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of time went in to the load tests leading up to the last couple of oscc events<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if we do have another OSCC in the next 6-8 months<br />
[11:53] Kayaker Magic: One thing that worries me about the fall of SL is the LL Wiki. We don't have a viable alternative to that.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it will likely be scaled down a bit in terms of how much would be presented etc..<br />
[11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: SL 2.0 may turn out to be really awesome but who knows when it'll really be ready and it may not be all that great, too.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I am confident the software would do as well or better than last year<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Meh, i better go for high fidelity in stead of sansar<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: without much additional testing<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, there is the OS wiki if you wanted to start building up a set of scripting information there.<br />
[11:54] Lucy Afarensis: Han Held was talking about putting something together for November<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I think at the end the are the same. only SL2 is mabye still to expensive<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortunately november is bad for me<br />
[11:54] Lucy Afarensis: on google+<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Kayaker ++<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I will be in San Jose beginning of november anyway<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: wow....bad chat lag her suddenly<br />
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Th LSL Wiki is dead, it will not allow new pages added.<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: no chat lag for me<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the state of logins when several people hit a region at once and there are big inventories involved?<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: LSL wiki on LL wiki our OpenSim wiki?<br />
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: If LL continues on their current tendency SL 2.0 will be very social-networking focused.<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I know that was one of the recent things being worked on.<br />
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Definitely not what everyone wants.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: yea SL 2.0 will be for professional modelers mostly<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: I cant see it having the same econmic structure and success that SL had selling content<br />
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: The old Wiki at http://lslwiki.net<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: oh that wiki<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya that thing is aincent<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: There are two wiki sites for info on LSL scripting.<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: That's one of them.<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, for some poeple. start swimming or drown<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think SL is going to go away anytime soon<br />
[11:56] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we started a place to collect scripts aswell > http://www.spellscape.co.uk/resources/scripts<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it will stay open as long as its profitable which will be for more years for sure<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nope. but that it's going you can count on your 11 fingers :O<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: SL wont be gone in the next 3 years<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's only going to go away when it ceases to be profitable<br />
[11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: LL has said I believe that they'll keep the current SL operating indefinitely. Just won't do much besides maintenance<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I've collected a lot of scripts. I've been putting a lot in a public library in one of the grids I'm in.<br />
[11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: Most features and such are locked in to final form now<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would assume that as the population dwindles they'll cut down on the resources (or divert them to Sansar)<br />
[11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: New stuff goes to 2.0<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure about that<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think they will still dev on SL for a bit<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: SL is still incredibly profitable for them<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: they have said they will keep going on SL but at a slower pace.<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and at some point it will no longer be viable<br />
[11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: Probably but I wouldn't expect anything big or exciting like mesh or new rendering engine.<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, until SL 2.0 is found to not be viable.<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: They will be competing with themselves for users.<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: there have been many big attempts at dethroning SL<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: big big money spent<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: no one has come even close<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: the people creating SL 2.0 are not the people who created SL<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: not even close<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: its far from a home run<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: BlueMars spent insane amount of money<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought Phillip(?) is involved in SL 2.0<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and no one even gave a crap about it<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: nope<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: philip is gone from LL<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: he is working on HiFi<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nope. i hope he wins from SL2<br />
[12:00] OtakuMegane Desu: AH yes, I remember that. It seemed really cool in preview then when it actually cvame about it sucked.<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, I knew he was doing something else sort of related.<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: there is literally no one notable working on SL2<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if there is its very secret<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ANd that sucks nebadon. and mabye good too<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: So SL will have competition from SL 2.0 and possibly HiFi too, on top of all the OS based worlds.<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hope it make people only more dissapointed about sl2<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think Hifi will be competing with anyone soon<br />
[12:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: LL is on the list of investors for HiFi, does philip still have any conection to linden labs?<br />
[12:02] OtakuMegane Desu: Competition is good. And is coming, that's inevitable.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: he owns stock in LL<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: thats about it<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes adnrew, and remeber hifi is openm source too. and viewer is customizable. soemthing you can forget inSL2 for few year sofar i have read<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and I am sure the LL association to HiFi<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hehe, i think you can be wrong in thaty neb<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... possible cross-pollination with OS?<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: is meerly to help him sell it better to other investors<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there is probably no real relationship<br />
[12:03] OtakuMegane Desu: OS is going to be a big player in the future I'm sure, whether as a direct thing or more indirect influence.<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: investors like to know very large companies are interested in what your doing<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: well OpenSim will definitely not be competing in the Social Market<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: people may try to use OpeSim in that kind of market<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: as long opensim is not going to improve mesh usage. and betetr 1st person playing. but especially mesh is disatser with SL / opensim. now i jnow how it can be done better<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but OpenSim iself will not be just a social platform tool etc..<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Opensim mabye catch old SDL people that cannot move to the betetr thing<br />
[12:05] OtakuMegane Desu: Which is probably one of the big reasons OS has held up as well as it has. There's a big social market that SL tried to cater to but it's not the only audience.<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya SL allowed us to lay the ground work<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: for a good simulator<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Being able to have scriptable mesh objects would be neat. Being able to animate them like you can in Blender.<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason opensim couldnt do that<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we just need a viewer that can interpret those assets<br />
[12:06] logger sewell: I need to scoot tc everyone<br />
[12:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Eventually we'll want to be able to work with mesh in-viewer/in-world. It'll take time to get that all implemented though.<br />
[12:06] vegaslon plutonian: some people kind of do that now with npcs<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: ok yea we are past the hour mark anyway<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, would need a way to add rigging info to the mesh objects.<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: good stuff, anyone has questions about any of this stuff<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: please visit our IRC channel<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: irc.freenode.net<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: #opensim-dev<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and ask away :)<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-01Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-012015-10-25T22:57:39Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:03] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 1dae36f: 2015-08-23 15:31:25 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im good, been busy, hows the webgl going neb?<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: just a heads up the Hypergrid Safari group is traveling to Divas region tomorrow<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: to talk aout OnLook viewer with her<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: open to all<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had a couple people mention to me recently about items they have rezzed in a region subsequently disappearing from it after a restart. I've never experienced this myself but I wondered if anyone else has and/or if you can think of how that can happen when the sim wasn't shut down (or wasn't restarted until much later, after many persistence cycles)<br />
[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: many reasons tha could happen<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: for one how are they restarting<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: always type backup on the console before restating<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: if you just stop a simulator ther is potential for loss<br />
[11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i add backup to the shutdown script just to be sure<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: typing shutdwn should also trigger abackup<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they may not be doing that<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: justin always got mad at me cause I do ctl+c<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but as long as you type backup first<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and wait for prompt to return<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if the item was dropped on the sim hours before the shut down, it *should* have long since been persisted<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ctrl+c is fine<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: well<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: But ctrl-c = kill in linux is so stupid implementation. it still wuld bite me<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: that can be a result of packet loss<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: the simulator not getting signal<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ctrl-c is the same is shooting bullet at yourself<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so you can see objects in your viewer that the simulator never got the mesage about<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: gotcha<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: when you relog they go bye bye<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: that would be my first guess<br />
[11:12] OtakuMegane Desu: Well for some reason there's never been anything except shutdown (and removing from grid) ever implemented. Never knew why.<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: does shut down (console command) automatically persist before shutting down? (and if not, why not?)<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya I think mostly the only time that is a problem is big open grids like osgrid<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It's time the implement the correct maptile behavior. shutdown = shutdown. but robust not remove the maptiles. so you keep dead tiles on map<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you control the entire grid then its less of a problem<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: maptile generation is expensive too though<br />
[11:14] OtakuMegane Desu: In any case there should be a separate command or even just a parameter that safely stops the simulator but doesn't remove it from the grid or anything like that.<br />
[11:14] OtakuMegane Desu: If there was, nobody would be doing ctrl-c<br />
[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: UNless something was already broken of course<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yea I argued that a few times myself OtakuMegane<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: never could convince anyone :)<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: incase you are not watching Git logs or IRC channel<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: diva has been moving physics engines into region modules<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: currently in a seperate branch<br />
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: That's exciting. :) That sort of refactoring is what OpenSim needs to move forward.<br />
[11:17] OtakuMegane Desu: Makes sense<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I tested it last night going well so far<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: no functional change to physics<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: just how opensimulator loads the engines is all<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZSrDQCmJPY<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I made that video last night testing :)<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: not sure its dramatic enough though :)<br />
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: Well, from an end user POV, it shouldn't be any different.<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: not yet anyway :)<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully it opens the door to more physics modules / addons<br />
[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: Hopefully MOSES will elect to make use of it for their PhsyX implementation.<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I've also seen a problem where maptiles stay on the map for regions that have been moved. I usually find it difficult to get them to go away.<br />
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha nice<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: matile generation is not as straight forward as just a jpg<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: the way zoomlevel works<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Roubust is blending various tiles together<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: to make new tiles for the various zoom levels<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: generally in maps like google maps etc. land doesnt just up and disappear<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:24] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: have u checked the cache is cleared?<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: its not a simulator cache issue<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is<br />
[11:24] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: robust maptile cache i mean<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont restart all th regions around that simulator<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: after its gone<br />
[11:25] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the zoom levels are hard to clear with out deleting the lot<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: that region will continue to appear<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: thats why osgrid just cant clean it up<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: clear cahc edont work with maptiles. it's the robust maptile cache<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: without totally wiping out big sections of the map for perids of time<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: it requires making eryone restart everytime we clean<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: its not sustainable really<br />
[11:25] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: robust bin, maptiles directory<br />
[11:25] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: so to create the map robust does nolook at the regions registered in grid?<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: there we go:)<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: oh no its back lol<br />
[11:29] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: I was asking: why does not robust check the regions registered in grid before creating the map?<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why does robust not remove it when it's getting a shutdown command from region ?<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: because<br />
[11:29] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: licu, the zoom levels have many regions per image at distant zooms, it would be too much work to rebuild every time a region came on or off<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: other regions use te tile you sent<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: to generate their own tiles<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: for the various zoom level<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it goes like this<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: zoom level 0 is single region<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: your region only tile<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: level 1 is 9 regions or something<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its you and neighbor regions combined<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: into a single region<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: then the robust database need to ignore some maptiles when the region is not in the database<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: robust generates this tile from data it has<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but its trigered by the simulator<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: so if i purged my region<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and all the neighbors dont restart<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: my region will still show on the map partially<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: at different zoom levels<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ts annoying<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup.<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately it was desined with a closed grid in mind<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: like SL<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but also without neighborns<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: with a landscape that doesnt change often<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: even in SL though<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: maptiles take weeks to update sometimes<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: in a grid where the gridop controls everything<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its easier to keep ma clean<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: in OSgrid its nearly impossible<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: id have to completely purge the entire map<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: and force everyone to restart<br />
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd like to see that attempted. >:)<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya hence the dilema<br />
[11:33] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: so at themaximum zoom you see the real situation?<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: that would give you the clearest snapshop<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: but again not 100% perfect either<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: snapshot*<br />
[11:33] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: got it<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the osgrid webmap<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: should also be pretty good<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: better than inworld<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but also takes a week or two to clean up<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if i did cleanup more than every week or two<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the map would be empty most of the time<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: even the cleanup i do now<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: could force long running stable regions to restart<br />
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: maptiles should be made by a bot so if a region can't be visited, it doesn't appear on the map<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: or loose thier tile<br />
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Only issue with web map, it doesn't render vars properly, which is becoming more an issue now<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: so its not a perfect solution either<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: the downside of the webmap<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and ya Dahlia I think thats how LL does it in SL<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: they crawl the grid with a custom viewer<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: that contstantly moves around the grid rendering tiles<br />
[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: That. ^<br />
[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: I remember from times I messed with creating maptile art<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but even that takes tme<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: in large grids<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it may have improved over time<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but I remember taking weeks for my region maptie to update<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: in SL<br />
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. Years ago it could be weeks between a sim's tile update. It dropped to a couple days last I checked but dunno what it's like now.<br />
[11:38] Dahlia Trimble: maptile bot: https://github.com/dahliaT/PovrayCommand<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: is this the raytrace one?<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you showed images in irc?<br />
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: only renders standard sized regions currently<br />
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: ya the raytraced one<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: cool, good start<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure i have any normal size regions to test with<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: plazas i guess<br />
[11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: I sunbathe in my region in the altogether. Will that maptile bot respect my privacy? >:)<br />
[11:39] Dahlia Trimble: patches welcome ;)<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: What would it take to be able to send out info to Robust and/or viewers to clear/update their map tile caches to get rid of tile images for regions that don't exist any more or which have moved.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: andrew not that simnple<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid has a crontask<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, it's only a drone.... with camera :P<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that clears old tiles<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but if no one restarts<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: the new tiles never get generated<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i know mysself i have gone 60-90-120 days<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: without restarting regions here on osgrid sometimes<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i have 1 oe 2 i constanty update<br />
[11:40] Dahlia Trimble: Ive gone over a year<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, nice. Does it handle mesh?<br />
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: yes<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: you have a sample image link still dahlia?<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: of what it genrates<br />
[11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: Regions can hold up a long time now. Not like long ago when keeping an empty region up for a week was a miracle. :)<br />
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: have one now at 189 days<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: I don't tend to restart regions unless they crashed or are being CPU hogs for some reason.<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: And updates of course.<br />
[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: I update from git on a quasi-regular basis. But I have had simulators running for months in the past.<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: yea even my large encitra models<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: go 6+ months sometimes<br />
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: I can update all my regions at once and I usually do<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: and we beat the hell out of them building<br />
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: What is Arcadia's Wire Recorder, and why am I seeing script errors from it?<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no idea<br />
[11:46] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I got that too some minutes ago<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: im not seeing errors<br />
[11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: I had it popup earlier.<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I have seen times where only people running FIrestorm see script errors<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: but no one else sees it<br />
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: I'm on FireStorm<br />
[11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: Ditto.<br />
[11:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Me too<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya I think its a firestorm thing<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if its bug or what<br />
[11:48] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: but it seems to be broadcasted to all of us ...<br />
[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, doesn't seem like i should be seing other people's script errors.<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yea very odd<br />
[11:48] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: just some viewers ignore it<br />
[11:48] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think FS sends errors to everyone but sing only sends them to the script owner<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: we would need a viewer dev to investiage where its breaking down<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: man i can not type today :)<br />
[11:50] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and lots of "unable to fetch profile data"<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: that is a known problem<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: because osgrid is not running v2 profiles<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we run osprofiles still<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: osprofiles and v2 profiles do not speak well with each other<br />
[11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: Any soft plans for a migration to v2 profiles?<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I havent heard any I personally have not had the time to think about it<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: would be good though<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I think it should be posible to migrate<br />
[11:53] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we also use osprofile<br />
[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: I *think* the table rows just have a slightly different order/name. So shouldn't be hard. In theory. ;)<br />
[11:53] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we didnt change because there are always bigger problems :)<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: however im not sure if maybe its better to fix osprofiles too or not<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: stupid effing viewer crashed again when I switched workspaces. That is such a major pita.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: wb Andrew<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: ty<br />
[11:54] Marcus Llewellyn shakes an angry fist in the air!<br />
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: wb<br />
[11:54] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: WBchen :-)<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we were just talking about the osprofile and v2 profile incompatibility<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would seem to make some sense for OSG to be running as close to "core" as it can if it's being used as a test of core...<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yes I just worry abou having to launch another 5 robust consoles too<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: to handle profile requests<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we already have 12 robust consoles<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: obviously sheer size makes it not feasible in a few areas<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, ok. My viewer would pick that time to crash.<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: or 13<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: something likethat<br />
[11:55] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we have 12 robust console too :)<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't looked at v2 profiles. How close are the two in db structure?<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not sure<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for those plagues with the "user profiles" messages, just let them pile up and then later right-click and "clear all" to save yourself from having to close them all 1 by 1<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: fairly close I think<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: its not 1:1 though<br />
[11:55] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: There'll be a chatlog in some minutes though ...<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: oh you get a popup in firstorm?<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ah that sucks<br />
[11:56] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: yes we do<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt happen in replex<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: What was the issue that raised the topic of the profile db structre?<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: at Close Encounter parties it will go to 99+ in the floater counter :p<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: uhg<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I didnt know that<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a major PITA for visitors<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i so rarely use firstorm<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but at least you can clear them all at once<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i only use it to record machinima<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: of course if you TP into a region with 50 avi in it, you get 50 messages all at once that completely fills your screen<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and you get them for NPC too<br />
[11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew... it started with a comment about those "unable to fetch profile data " messages...<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: geez that is terrible<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I had no idea<br />
[11:58] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and that this issue is due to an incompatibility of the group modules<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not seen the message today<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that an HG issue? The grid determines which way it is saving profile data.<br />
[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: I only ever see it when HGing about.<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: the reason i think it would be better to fix osprofiles too<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: going v2 means forced updates<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: i've only seen it when HGed to a grid that doesn't run V2<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: means the entire grid has to change configurations and restart<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, mabye time to force it. V1 is problematic<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: or we could fix osprofile<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: so it can talk to core profiles<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and lower the burden on everyone<br />
[12:01] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: is there a special reason for using a different group module except for legacy reasons?<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: something to think about<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: switching osgrid to v2 will be painful is all<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: very painful<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: unatended regions will start spewing errors<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I maintain the osprofile code. I can work with someone to help sync osprofile and v2 profiles. I'll have to read the meeting log to catch the part about how the two having different db structures is causing a problem.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hypergrid<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: they cant talk to each other over hypergrid<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: my grid is running osprofile<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i just to metro grid who is running v2<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it generates errors not only on firestorm vieer<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: but also region console too<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: lots of spew<br />
[12:03] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: so sorry about it ;-)<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't there a standard method for asking an instance for profile data?<br />
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) *waves*<br />
[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya Dahlia<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure Andrew<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: maybe but it seems at the moment they cant talk each other<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I would have thought the grid would then pass back the info after getting it from whatever method is used in the grid.<br />
[12:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i gotta go, bye everyone :)<br />
[12:04] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: bye alicia<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: see you Alicia<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not against making changes. I'd just like to make sure I understand the source of the problem first.<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: by Alicia<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and bye Dahlia<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I should go. My at is getting *very* insistent I go see him.<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and actually I should be heading off too<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: My cat<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a great week everyone<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya the problem is when you HG travel to a grid that isnt running the same prfile module<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: you start throwing errors<br />
[12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Since both v2 profiles and HG are diva's creations, presumably the way the v2 profile module does it would be the "standard"<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: to region console and viewers<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and profile is not readable in viewer<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: it may just be a matter of how data is serialized or something<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I have to go. This cat is meowing for me non stop. We can talk more about this another time on IRC or the mailing list.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: ok sounds good Andrew<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya our hour is up for the day anyway<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: thanks everyone<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: same time next week<br />
[12:06] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: only one cat?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Sheera you have log?<br />
[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: If she doesn't, I do.<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool ya Sheera has unoficially taken over log duty :)<br />
[12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Cool beans. :)<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: i just like to be sure if not i can grab a copy just in case<br />
[12:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: meeuw meeeiow meew :P<br />
[12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: This meeting will also be archived on Youtube in the near future. :)<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya that was great Marcus<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: i had it open on second screen<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: was like 10 second delay<br />
[12:08] Marcus Llewellyn: It an't bad, especially with how much I have to dial the encoder down. lol<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: I like the chat<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: how are you doing that?<br />
[12:08] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: sure I'll post the log in some minutes<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: thanks Sheera<br />
[12:08] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm just feeing the viewer log straight into a text source in OBS.<br />
[12:08] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: just cleaning it up a bit ...<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: oh wow<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats awesome idea<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: I thought maybe you hacked on the viewer xmls<br />
[12:08] Marcus Llewellyn: But I have a log anatizer than cleans the raw log up even more. It crashed this time... not enough testing with HG names.<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: great job<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: its really good<br />
[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Thank you. :) I hope fo make it a regular thing.<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: that would be awesome<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: we could link URL at top of each chat log<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: on the wiki<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: or maybe even just embed video in the wiki<br />
[12:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Fine by me. :)<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: cool pass along a URL once you have it for archive<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ill experiment<br />
[12:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Will do in IRC.<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ok off to work I go<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: if you are interested<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i have ben tinkering with Unity3D WebGL<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/webgl<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: is my current demo<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: no opensim<br />
[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Cool :)<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: its pure Blender>Unity3D>WebGL<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: the work flow is pretty awesome I have to say<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: you just export your collada to the unity3d asset folder for your project<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: and in the unity3d editor your model just automaticaly updates<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: takes a little hacking to get camera moving<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/opensim/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=89<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: been intersting to hack on<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: the bar is much higher though<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: the SL viewer really can handle some pretty shitty models<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-08-25Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-252015-10-25T22:57:18Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone :)<br />
[11:03] Vivian Klees: hello Neb<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb<br />
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Afternoon, nebadon<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: I loaded one of my models into Unity3D WebGL last night<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: your big city ones?<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/unity3d/test_006<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: did it blow up? :p<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i wanted to see how well webgl could render it<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: take a look at link above :)<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: waiting for it to load<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya its about 300mb<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the enitre webgl output<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: use wasd to move<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: x makes you go up and space down<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: och, that's bad viewer. it's not supporting cursor keys.<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know what im doing yet<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: Unity has no built in controls<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: very cool<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: you have to program key bindings yourself<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and very smooth and fast<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy<br />
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: It is just a grey box on FireFox on a Mac... or does that mean it is still downloading?<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: probably still loading give it a moment<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: should run in latest firefox on mac<br />
[11:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i tried last night but i gave up, thought it froze up, progress bar stuck at 50%, maybe i just didnt wait long enough<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hmm maybe its about 300mb<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: my server is pretty fast<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but very intressting to see how the build the terrain when you move<br />
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: progress bar? I wish I could see a progress bar.<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: when a lot of people hit it, they probably throttle it a bit<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: maybe try chrome<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: working fine on my version of FF<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you have it<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's remarkably mooth<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wasd works default, except it's wrong side of keyboard<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: binding keys in web browser isnt always easy<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what's the total filesize of the region?<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I thought you were finding it slow when you touched something<br />
[11:10] Vivian Klees: not impressive<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: that model is about 1000x700m<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew i was<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it was my Antivirus<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: oh<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Unity3D launches like 100 exe fles<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and you kept it pretty low poly I assume<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Spybot Search and Destroy was set to scan all exe files on launch<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: so Unity was launching like 100 virus scans<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: unity launches all kinds of tools in the backgrounds<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: like python<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and some optimizer tools<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and when your compiling your website, it launches like 100 python.exe<br />
[11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: loaded ok this time, looking good for webgl<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, Its a bit sluggish for me but I have a few things running here. BTW, I liked your inclusion of Suzanne in there. :)<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea, Unity3D gave me the shortest path to WebGL<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I just saw Suzanne too<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: I use that as a anchor<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so i can realign things in world<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: whenever I export peices from blender<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i include that<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: than make it the root prim<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and align it to the anchor in world<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: this way i can easily replace sections or add new things<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: without spending alot of time realigning things in world<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you have that script that lets you touch two objects and it moves the one to the position of the other?<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I read in a recent viewer release blog about it including the experimental LL code to allow mesh to be uploaded with more than 8 mats<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any chance of that code making its way into Opensim?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Aine, i wouldnt get to excited about that<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: all it does is split your models<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: the limit is still 8<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then forget it<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it just doensnt throw away extra levels anymore<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: like it used<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: used to<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'll split it in Blender and maintain my normals<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to try texturing a mesh sometime to see how it handles a house.<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its much safer to do it yourself<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yah<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so you dont get unexpected results<br />
[11:15] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (13.86 m).<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was hoping against hope that they were allowing more than 8 faces<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately no<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: gna, i like fbx more. and to no materials limit. sadly not suitable for SL / SO<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I think there is only so much you can send before really degrading performance<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi robert<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: even Unity has limits<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there any reaason why *we* can't allow more than 8 faces?<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the viewer<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: that would probably require redoing protocols<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: and possibly breaking old viewer compatibility<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the viewer is one big problem for opensim<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: basically ditch all existing viewers that dont add new code<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: mesh v2 :)<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but faces aren't touched much by viewer code<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: more live mesh v4<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a "click on this and texture it"<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: rather than tab through faces or picking one by number<br />
[11:17] Robert Adams: how do you "degrade performance"? calling it a criminal or that it has loose morals?<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if it touch my face, i really need to move further away from the screen :D<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: its really the same reason we dont want larger than 1024 textures<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: you can clobber streaming<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: execpt you and I and everyone else working with mesh just ends up breaking the object into pieces<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you're increasing the vert count and using it anyway<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: well<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: well you still need a limit<br />
[11:19] Robert Adams: there should be a way to manage the larger object without all the mesh pieces but the existing viewer/protocol doesn't allow it any other way<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you wouldnt want a mesh with 1000 materials<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you have to draw the line at some point<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I wouldn't want to texture one, that's for sure :p<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i say draw it in the most favorable light to performance<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, if you could build more sccaled by fixing the wrong camera angle you can use smalelr textures without losing quality<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: we shouldnt trade performance for convienience<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the limit would be about 128k mats :p<br />
[11:19] Robert Adams: give an artist 1000 possible textures and they will use 1000 textures :)<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: then complain they need 10 more<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since that's the face limit with a 64k vert limit<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: :P<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: no its far less than 65k isnt it<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ~64k verts<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if those are all tri you can get up around 128k faces<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya you are right<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i was mixing the vertice vs triangle #'s<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: beleive it or not<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (I'm not saying it's a good idea to upload a mesh that size.....just saying it's possible)<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: Unity3D has same limits<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its a 16bit limit<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: its not a random decision to cut it off at 65k<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah,m I didn't think so<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assumed it was to fit a db definition for the field<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: actually many of the mesh formats themselves<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: have those limits too<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: .3ds does for sure<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: collada does not<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: those are stored files though....for the most part you only got to those sizes when you apply multiple levels of subdiv<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which for render you wouldn't do<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (for render output I mean)<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: thats why modifiers are important<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you wouldnt even be able to use the editor tools<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: without modifiers :)<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: it would be so laggy<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have a 5m poly Blender structure made entirely using array modifiers....the actual total model poly cound is under 100 faces :p<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: with all that visible geometry<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's easy to do with chains and things like that<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or a screw modifier<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: arrays too<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeps<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I use them all the time...extremely handy<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya makes things a lot easier :)<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one lonely little torus + array + path<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: you can see high quality blender renders of my WebGL model<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/Upplands_Vasby/preview/<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I have most of it uploaded into OpenSimulator now too<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but havent taken any screenshots or video yet<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i have definitely decided I am not going to willingly use prims anymore to build :)<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, your build is difefrent. because it's only solid models where you cannot go inside<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I use a mix<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya but that wouldnt make a huge different Richardus<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I find that the physics of mesh is still incredibly unreliable<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: really?<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, i start to get fun with mesh to. only not for SL or OS. to difficult<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: I havent had that experience<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: the limits are much lower for physics<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: 16k triangles<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: try to avoid using viewer generated physics<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i usually almost always upload the same collada file<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: on the physics tab<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: select from File<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: and select same Collada<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: that seems to give me best results<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it won't reliably take my separate physics files....you can't load physics files if importing a linkset....and generated physics is a complete crap shoot<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i did hear that's bad idea too. but for me it worked always or make your own collision shape<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I have not experienced that<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: it always works well for me<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: even driving vehciles over roads and suck<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: such*<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if your physics is box, sure<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: oh you mean the physical item itself<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if it's more complex than that it rapidly becomes unreliable<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: not what you are colliding with<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i misunderstood<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: sorry<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: both<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: yes physical moving mesh objects are not as good as they could be for sure<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a mesh building half the time you can't walk through a door<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but all the static objects for me have been great<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that means your exceeding 16k triangles<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you have to make the building phantom and add invisible prim wals<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: you shouldnt<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i have never had to do that myself<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with a 88-poly building I don't see how I can exceed 16 tri<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but I can say when I have seen that its because your exceeding limits<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, viewer physics ?<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: a good way to test your model<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: is upload it with Radegast viewer<br />
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *16k<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: with good physics or correct setting in vuiewer upload it's never needed<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if it looks perfect after uploading with Radegast<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its likely going to work fine in almost all aspects<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: just use the viewer physics previewer says already very much<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: radegast does no decimation or splitting<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its as is<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: for physics and visuals<br />
[11:32] Deadly Intentions kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.89 m).<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: so you quickly find out if you ar exceeding limits<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: cause the building will look like a giant pile of triangles<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you upload all of your mesh with Radegast?<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer tries to mask your problems<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: by auto correcting<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and it does a bad job<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: LL does this<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: because its hard to erase broken models<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you are going to test this be sure your uploaded file has a unique name too<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so you can easier erase it from console<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if its covering the entire region in triangles<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: which can happen<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that said too<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if the model uploaded in radegast looks good<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: erase that model<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and reupload with regular viewer<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its not mandatory<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: but lik i said models uploaded with radegast are full blown 100% quality<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no LOD gets generated or uploaded<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: everything is HIGH<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: physics is HIGH<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so your workflow for every mesh is upload with Rad, go in world, check it, delete it, reupload it with another viewer?<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: but like i said if it works ou know your model is below all the supported limits<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: only models im unsure of<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i dont do it for everything of course<br />
[11:35] Deadly Intentions kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.36 m).<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: say i upload a model and i cant walk through a door<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i will then do it with radegast<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: to see what happens<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its easy to miss a peice of your mesh that is more complex than your realize<br />
[11:36] Deadly Intentions kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.70 m).<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: or forget about a modifier or something<br />
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks just realized one of the 5 viewers he has installed is Replex.<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is why I tend to make separate physics meshes in the first place<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that is the downside of modiifers<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: you forget you have a subsurface modifier enabled<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: when you edit that object it looks low poly<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but when you export and apply its 50k vertices now<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: anyway radegast helps me a lot<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: plus I always upload my mesh terrains with radegast<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk....I'll try that<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you want your terrain to always be FULL<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise your avatar may not collide correctly<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and your floating in areas<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: or knee deep in others<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: places you expect avatars to constantl be gathering and standing and colliding wit stuff<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Does Blender show the true poly count when there are modifiers on the model?<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you want to use as high a quality for mesh you can afford<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: it depends<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it does in object mode<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: on if you have it visualized<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in edit mode it doesn't<br />
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: Robert: Bullets don't work in Bulletsim, if I throw a physicl object it does not genrate collision events when it hits things, even when it lands on the ground and is skittering around. There is a Mantis for this.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its possible to have modifiers not visible in editor<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but they apply on export or render<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and yeah, modifers have to active<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I was thinking of the numbers that appear in the top bar of the program<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: as long as you have the modifier visible in editor<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: it will show the count proper<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: oh<br />
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: Is anything going to hapen to fix this soon?<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but thats not always the case<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in edit mode it shows the model counts<br />
[11:40] Robert Adams: which mantis is that, Kayaker<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Kayaker you have to make bullets like 1m long<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in object mode it shows the count *after* any modifiers are applied if they're visibility is turned on<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: Alcicia didnt we discuss this?<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: Alicia*<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: you cant make microscopic bullets<br />
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: kayaker, i had that problem, the trick is to make the bullet prim long and also set material and restitution so it reduces the chance of bouncing off<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: they need to be like 1m long<br />
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: I'll go look up the Mantis<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: small prims get culled from physics<br />
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: material flesh and restitution set to 0 will reduce the bounce off issues, longer prims fix the not actual collision<br />
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i have the prims about 0.5 m and that seems to work fine, 1m might be overkill, best to experiment with different values<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 wonders what a handgun with a 1m-long bullet would be like<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Desert Eagle .50<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:43] Robert Adams: its more that they have to be there for the tenth of a second simulation period or there is tunneling<br />
[11:43] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: scale we are using is <0.3, 0.3, 0.5> i think<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: guess you don't have to worry about concealed weapons very much<br />
[11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: robert, they can also bounce off with out triggering script events, even tho the physics must have detected the collision to make it bounce off<br />
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: The mantis is 6496 for bullets in bulletsim<br />
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: just doesnt pass the collision to the screipt<br />
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: script*<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the X in xeingine is actually algebraic variable for how many times before it fails :P<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, how small an object gets culled from physics?<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its a variable in OpenSim.ini Andrew<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i think its .1<br />
[11:46] Robert Adams: if that is happening, it is how the mesh penetrations are computed... the meshes collide, penetration is corrected (bounces off) then the meshes are checked for colliding and they aren't colliding any more<br />
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I want to detect bullets hitting the ground, I see them land, bounce around, but I hardly ever get land collision events.<br />
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Making a bullet long helps with colisions with other prims, but doesn't help with the land.<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, ok. I'll check that. I've had an issue with a snowball thrower where the snowballs would bounce.<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: off things.<br />
[11:47] Robert Adams: 'collisions' are not generated when two meshes intersect.... they are computed by checking the meshes at the end of the simulation period for overlap<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew > PhysicalPrimMin = 0.01<br />
[11:47] Robert Adams: that could be how Bullet does it... other physics engines might do it better<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: is the default<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think xengine just to slow. that's why i gave up with y train to. the results where to random<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right. that setting<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I think the snowballs were bigger than that.<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't used it in a while.<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: well machine guns will ultimately kill xengine events<br />
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: I'm using prims for bullets, sometimes sculpts. I've seen people use weird twisted cut toruses in SL to try and increase the probability of a collision working....<br />
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, it's machine gun you know. very deadly :)<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: xengine only seems to be able to process so many events simultanouesly before going belly up<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: maybe just a threading issue<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its way to easy to kill xengine<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: this is what I would hope MOSES team would realize<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: before chasing physx<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: to fix their problem<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they dont realize they are going to have same exact problem<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi flüstert: but some people need to learn the hard way :P<br />
[11:50] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: lol<br />
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: I will make a simple test of objects falling and not generating land collisions, and submit a Mantis just for that.<br />
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: *land collsion events<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: do land collision events work right in Vars?<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I know they didnt in megas<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but never tested in vars<br />
[11:51] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think so, im sure id have had problems come up if they didnt<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: likely<br />
[11:51] Robert Adams: I should fix ray casting so guns don't have to throw bullts<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:52] Kayaker Magic: YES!<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: so raycast uses physics<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and not C#<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: the current V3 raycast<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: while its great much better<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: it still is harsh<br />
[11:52] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i couldnt use ray casting as our projectiles have a partcle effect so are visible traveling through the sim<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: cpu spikes with 16 of those laser beam scripts<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: events start failing<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if you rapid fire llCastRay<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it misses about 60% of them<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: you get a null response<br />
[11:53] Robert Adams: alicia, could still throw prims for the effect... but don't rely on collisions<br />
[11:53] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 1dae36f: 2015-08-23 15:31:25 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:53] Robert Adams: there is so much to rewrite in OS<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: robert would be hard to account for delay, if the projectile hits and the avatar has moved after firing<br />
[11:54] OSG8B POSTER: active<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: gives you time for dramatic death animation :P<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks laughs<br />
[11:55] Kayaker Magic: I've been moving non-physical phantom prims on parabolic paths to the locations llCastray found.<br />
[11:55] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hehe we trigger the splat animation when it hits<br />
[11:55] Kayaker Magic flüstert: It's not rocket science. No wait, maybe it is!<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No, its bullet sience<br />
[11:56] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: its not science, its magik :)<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It's just playing the lottery<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but you're using Newtonian mechanics.....you need to do quantum bullets<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then all you need to do is generate a random number to decide if it hits<br />
[11:56] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: a quontum bullet would be every where at the same time, so would every one die? lol<br />
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: The physical bullets that pass through objects with no collisions, that's quantum tunneling<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Neurino Gun<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: see....the physics engine is even more advanced than we thought<br />
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: but untill u see the bullet it doesnt exist to close your eyes and your safe<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's already quantum<br />
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: When god fixes the bugs in his physics engine, things will stop tunneling<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Neutrinos!<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: It operates in a different reality<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Carefull aine, don't trigger a singularity<br />
[11:58] Robert Adams: a Virtual reality!!<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: maybe it's best to think of bullets like dark matter.....no matter what kind of detection device you use the odds of actually observing one are infinitesimally small<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:00] Robert Adams: I've gotta run... take care all<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Dark matter never get far, it's to heavy<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Robert<br />
[12:00] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye robert<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I should run as well...have a great week everyone<br />
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: I have to run also. Bye all<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: k thanks everyone<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: same time next week :)<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Dark matter? Isn't that what they use to fuel the Planet Express ship?<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye robert<br />
[12:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: dark matter nibbler poop yes lol<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes andrew,<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm heading out too.<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi flüstert: kk see you guys on IRC :)<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why you think i say it's to heavy to shoot :P<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: laterz<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-08-18Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-182015-10-25T22:57:08Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:03] Sheera Khan: Hi Neb :-)<br />
[11:04] Shez Oyen: Hey Neb :)<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi shez, neb\<br />
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, nebadon<br />
[11:04] Shez Oyen: Rich :o<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Am at the point of no return, or close to. it. pretty far with clean 10 installation. but the bugs.. possible running back to 7<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: I am not having any trouble with Windows 10<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: runs great on my laptop<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Bugs in Windows? How shocking ... not.<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: laptob. dump simple device :O and you possible don't use 125% dpi<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: actually this laptop is pretty complex<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: it has dual SSD Riad<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: and a spinning hard drive<br />
[11:07] Drake Arconis kommt in Chat-Reichweite (12.99 m).<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: My laptop downloaded and installed Win 10 recently. I haven't done much with it other than remove a lot of stuff it installed which I don't want. I check a few programs to see they still start. That's about all I've done with it.<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.asus.com/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ASUS_ROG_G750JH/<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: the best part about Windows 10<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: is the built in video recording tool<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/sodertalje/Sodertalje-Route-01-001.mp4<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, my fathers computer did the self update thing. His screen is running at the maximum font size.<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: i recorded this on my laptop<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: using the xbox recording tool<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. I removed a bunch of Xbox stuff as I don't have an Xbox.<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yeah, i forgot remote desktop works better on 10. it's also better toi stay on 120. and the few bugs. some get fixt with Secondslife viewer already.<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol the mp4 is corrupt<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: you dont need an xbox<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus try chrome<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: in FF you might have to refresh a few tmes<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: FF is sucking lately<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i never go install crappy chrome. using firefox<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hate chrome.<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: try refresh once or twice<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Lance & Lavy<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, yea. For several releases FF won't even save my open tabs/windows during shutdown.<br />
[11:10] lavender -pretty: hello Aine<br />
[11:10] Lance Fang: HIya Aine!<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm refresh diud something<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (9.31 m).<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi aine<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: extreme slow<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha it plays<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: yea bug in FF or something<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: not sure why that happens<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: its only firefox<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is the prim or esh neb. i have idea's to start building again too<br />
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.78 m).<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sorry I'm latae<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: that model is mostly prim<br />
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: hi<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: which town did you build for that video, nebadon?<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: check out my latest model im working on though<br />
[11:11] Shez Oyen: Hi Aine :)<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: that is Sodertalje<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: in Sweden<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[11:12] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev c53f732: 2015-08-17 21:46:30 +0200 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/upplands_vasby_blender_hq_render_005.png<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/upplands_vasby_blender_hq_render_006.png<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: this is Upplands Vasby in Sweden<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: that is rendered in Blender<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: will be my first all mesh model<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Now the tree's are most intressting to find in opensim<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how did you get that fisheye effect? is that just from being in perspective with a huge mesh?<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or did you use a very wide-angle lens setting?<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: in blender you can set the lens<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice laptop, btw<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: you can set sensor size and lens mm<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: thanks, its getting on in age now<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nice<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: just curious since there's a very large curve to the horizon....quite like the effect<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: but its still nice machine :)<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea im mostly just experimenting Aine<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: im finally getting a grip on blender<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: was that at something like a 20mm lens?<br />
[11:15] Lance Fang kommt in Chat-Reichweite (15.06 m).<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: 15 or 20<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Hope is isn't a death grip where you are trying to choke the life out of it in frustration ;)<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway...really like that....it gives a great added sense of depth/scale<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha andrew<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I would like to spend more time with Blender but I'm working on an RL project where I need Rhino.<br />
[11:17] vegaslon plutonian kommt in Chat-Reichweite (9.17 m).<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: I just hope i can get the entire model uploaded its quite large<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: the whole area im doing is about 800x800m<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: positioning everything is going to be lots of fun :p<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have a bunch of markers<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: to make it easier<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or bring it in as a linkset and kiss your physics goodbye<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: physics shouldnt be a problem<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: its too big for a single object<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with a linkset I have major problems<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: betetr do 768x768<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ive uploaded very large linkset mesh with little trouble<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it will come in but you can't assign physics from file so it has to calculate it<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's more the viewer uploader that restricts you then something else<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it seems to do very, very weird things with those calculations<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I bring them in 1 piece at a time and let it calculate physics it's fine but if I bring it in as a linkset it goes all screwy<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I assign physics from file and haven't had an issue with it (yet?)<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: here is the whole thing<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/upplands_vasby_blender_hq_render_007.png<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with a linkset, Andrew?<br />
[11:22] Shez Oyen kommt in Chat-Reichweite (17.25 m).<br />
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why not use same dae for physics ?<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: its not flat at all<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because using the same sae is horribly inefficient....I can make physcis shape for something in 100 faces vs the mesh itself might be 10k faces<br />
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/upplands_vasby_blender_hq_render_008.png<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't want to assign a 10k-face physics if I don't need it<br />
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's what i always doo<br />
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: new model<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...so if I have 5 objects that I select and export as a single dae, I can't also select 5 low poly physcis objects and assign them to a different dae and have the viewer understand it....even with the same names and same selection order<br />
[11:25] jazzy chatterbox kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.37 m).<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, oh. Done it with a small group of items. Not sure if that counts as a linkset.<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I had to do them 1 by 1 then assemble inworld<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you shouldnt have to really<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: uploading mesh can be a chore though<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Use the modelling coordinates to let you quickly move the inworld items.<br />
[11:26] Casias Falta: hey jaz<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: an easy way to determine if your mesh falls within the viewer/simulator limitations for vertices and triangles<br />
[11:26] jazzy chatterbox: hello Cas...Everyone :)<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: upload the mesh with Radegast veiwer<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or actually what I do is import it once as a grouped set, then import them 1 by 1 properly, then place and position the group, then unlink it and replace each piece with the proper 1<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that takes forever<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez it and it looks good with radegast viewer the model is good<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (if it's a large group, which I often have)<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: however you probably dont want to continue to use uploaded files from radegast<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: becuase radegast only does HIGH LOD<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: for all layers<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its good for terrain and stuff<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ouch<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: but not really complex stuff<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: but<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its a good way to test if your mesh is below the limits<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: the limits the viewer can render<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt cut stuff up like the viewer does<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its basically as is<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: so if it looks good as is<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: then you know your model is good<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: if it looks like a million triangle monster<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: then you have to go back and do more cutting up / splitting of peices etc..<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: million triangle mosnter the viewer don't accept<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: I have no idea of triangle counts until I pull my models in to Blender.<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i would suggest rezzing these test objects in a sandbox<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: never do this in a production environment<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: cause if your model is too far gone<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: you might have a hard time selecting and deleting itr<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: either that or make sure it has a unique name<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: you can delete object from console<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i have a pdf for limits<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/collada/Mesh Model Requirements.pdf<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i created this for Encitra<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: some of it is specific to encitra<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but its a good generalizaton of the mesh limits<br />
[11:31] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (16.36 m).<br />
[11:31] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.50 m).<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: feel free to reformat the doc for your own needs :)<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: anyone else have anything cool going on with opensim?<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's interesting that the viewer will allow you to upload a mesh that violates the surfaces limit<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: some differet questions. or some fixes on the list whit hypergrid friedns, offlineIM etc ?<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: Aine the viewer is semi smart about it<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but any face > #7 us ubvusuvke<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *invisible<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer will take peices that exceed limits and break it up<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: however this sucks<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: becuase it does a terrible job<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I just hit that today...accidentally tried to upload one with 9 mats<br />
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought the limit was 8 faces<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you have ever uploaded a mesh and try to change a texure<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but it only like 1/2 changes<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes 8 faces = 0 - 7<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and there are a million triangles<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i tried it by purpose. and soem parts got invisib;e<br />
[11:34] Sarah Kline kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.72 m).<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: this means you exceed the limit and the viewer autosplit the geometry to fit in the limits<br />
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: 21,844 triangles per face * 8 faces isn't very much.<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so mat 8 = face #7<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lot's of faces. because if you work fbx style *morefun) you don;'t have the stupid sl limnit<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if this happens you should really fix the model and reupload<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, I had 9 mats assigned to the mesh<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I miscounted<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: 21844 triangles in a game environment is a lot<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it was only 6k faces<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yes 8 is the limit<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i just wanted to know if i could use model i made for soemthing else. bsomeonme got the idea it could work. but it failed<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: if you exceed 8<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: some say 9 is the limit ?<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it will also split<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no its 8<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, i will tell him. i always used 8<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its the same limit a cube has<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: cube is 6 external sides<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: the hollow middle<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 8 is the limit....my mesh uploaded by the faces assigned to the 9th material were invisible<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and edge cut<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: this is the ultimate limit<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes you never want to exceed these limits<br />
[11:36] Casias Falta: Dont know if anybody is interestet but I have been porting small OS builds to Unity3d and then outputing to show on android phones as<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: even if things appear to look ok<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its usually not<br />
[11:36] Casias Falta: VR for cardboard<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: nice Casias<br />
[11:37] vegaslon plutonian: found out today that Bright Canopy veiwer will start off being 17 dollars a month<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds about right<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: the Amazon stuff isnt cheap<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: works well enough though<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you could do it cheaper if you setup your own Amazon AppStream<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Bright Canopy uses EC2<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh , browser viewer :(<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: so they cant charge by the minute<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its per hour<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: even if you use 1 minute<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you get billed for 1 hour<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: with AppStream billing is t the second<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: if you havent seen these<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i made some vids<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLCzFXkZm5Y<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCmLmFNi7AI<br />
[11:41] vegaslon plutonian: need a vewer that can be automatically configured to connect to a local network standalone<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: that might be tough<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: unless it does some kind of network scan<br />
[11:42] vegaslon plutonian: is there a file on the os that stores the diffrent grids for the veiwers?<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would need to have the simulator have some kind of beacon<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer could san for<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: thats in the viewer<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: infact some of the viewers actually pull that info from a centralized website<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer dev teams maintain<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: so even if you edit the xml in the viewer<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: it can revert back to the default<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: depends on te viewer<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: talk with some of the viewer devs<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there are a bunch who have been spending time working on stuff in #opensim-dev on IRC freenode<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: maybe they have some ideas on how to do that<br />
[11:45] Casias Falta: How do people feel about the guy that is offering a distributable copy of firestorm that has your desired URI configured<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: btw Diva just released a paper on opensimulator study<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: if you are interested<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lopes/opensim/wiley_minrev_v1.pdf<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Casias I think its a good idea<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: compiling the viewer is not easy<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: even for something so simple as adding your own grid<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its insanely complex<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: if someone has the skills and thinks they have a service people will use<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i think its great<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone charges money to build a viewer with their grid URI in it? How do I get in on that action? :)<br />
[11:47] Casias Falta: Well its a matter of running some sort of zip up packaging thing after changing the xml files i believe<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well I doubt your going to get rich doing that<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but hey I wont fault anyone for trying to make a living<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: cant do everything for free :)<br />
[11:48] Krysss.Galatea @login.digiworldz.com:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (17.84 m).<br />
[11:48] Casias Falta: I tried it once and the resulting zip was so large it wasn't any good<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, the viewer is pain to build. Took a long time before I was able to do it. I think it is a bit easier now, or I've just finally cracked the steps needed. Mostly it is about the dependencies you need.<br />
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Still not burning my fingers on that<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its one thing if its just for windows too<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: if your doing it cross platform thats different<br />
[11:49] Casias Falta: yep<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I think that would be a greater service<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I've only built viewers under Linux.<br />
[11:50] Casias Falta: I think the grid list is located in an associated xml file so you dont have to reconstruct the viewer itself i believe<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, it is a separate file.<br />
[11:50] jazzy chatterbox kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.91 m).<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea probably not, i guess it depends on how far they are taking the customization<br />
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: then it woudl be pretty ewxpensive the ask for that small change. but mabye the change other things too ?<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: grids.xml file under user_settings of where the viewer stores its data for the user.<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: There is also a grids_custom.xml file.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats probably the one<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I think some viewers will reset grids.xml if its changed<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Singularity uses grids_sg1.xml. The grids.xml file is probably the one used by Second Life viewers.<br />
[11:53] Casias Falta: I believe that firestorm also does a call to their website to refresh one or both of those files on start up<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: That sort of thing has messed things up for me in the past.<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: anyone is interested there is a lot of good free 3d content on this site<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: http://opengameart.org<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha. not looked at the 3d art section. i know the side<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: http://opengameart.org?keys=&field_art_type_tid<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: hmm wierd url on that second link<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: hyperlink breaks<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ty Neb<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: there are some really nice plant packs<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and kits<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll check it out later.<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: like 77 pages of models<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: its not a ton of stuff<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: nice.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but some of the stuff is really high quality<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but how much is useable ?<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: id say more than 1/2<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there is a lot of blender files too<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: which is nice<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: k<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd be interested in the terms of service for the models.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: some will require some fixing / converting etc..<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can sort by license<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: there is everything from CC0 to GPL<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: its all open source<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: its just a matter of attribution<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you should always give attribution regardless in my opinion<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I hate trying to make sense out of licences.<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: even though i generally dont care about getting attribution myself<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: if you can make money with my content some how, have at it<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's only hard todo in OS. because there's no option for that<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i make a notecard<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: or put URL in description field<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: its not perfect but best we can do<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Uhh, i mean personal use. then i think it's impossible<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...I need to run.....have a good week everyone<br />
[12:02] jazzy chatterbox: take care Aine<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: you too, Aine. See you next time.<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye aine<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya thanks for coming everyone, same time next week<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get back to work on this model<br />
[12:02] Casias Falta: cu Aine<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be on IRC anyone needs me<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to get back to working on an RL electronics project<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: Sheera can you post log please?<br />
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh conopy is not broser based but just remote desktop style.. at least i don't hope it runs in browser<br />
[12:03] Casias Falta: thanks for the discussion folks cu later<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Casias<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it can run in browser Richardus<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I know there is a Chrome Plugin<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but there are standalone client as well<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks fires up his Raspberry Pi<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ok have to run, talk soon :)<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, heading home<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye all<br />
[12:04] jazzy chatterbox: take care everyone<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: I better grab log incase Sheera misses it<br />
[12:05] vegaslon plutonian: yep raspberry pi and that veiwer and you got a good contender to minecraft for the kids<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-08-11Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-112015-10-25T22:56:56Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[10:55] Andrew Hellershanks: How things going, Kayaker?<br />
[10:55] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0b5385f: 2015-08-11 11:55:51 +0300 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[10:56] Kayaker Magic: Pretty good.<br />
[10:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Haven't seen you in VH in quite a while.<br />
[10:56] Kayaker Magic: I'm spending a lot of time on Kitely, planning on porting things from there to VH<br />
[10:56] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, ok<br />
[10:57] Andrew Hellershanks: That's not one of the grids I've been to.<br />
[10:57] Kayaker Magic: It's the virtual worlds on demand place, they create your region on Amazon servers only when someone tries to go there.<br />
[10:58] Kayaker Magic: They also can export products from their marketplace to any Hypergrid enabled grid<br />
[10:58] Kayaker Magic: So my store there is doing well.<br />
[10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: kayayer, about what you talk ?<br />
[10:59] Kayaker Magic: We were talking about the Kitely grid<br />
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, That might be a reason to check out Kitely. My stores don't do well elsewhere. I just tend to avoid HG grids as I don't want people easily able to take my stuff else where and perhaps take things apart and duplicate my work.<br />
[11:00] Kayaker Magic: I was paranoid about that at first, but I have relaxed.<br />
[11:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone<br />
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd want to know about the controls in place before I'd allow my stuff to be sold in an HG enabled grid.<br />
[11:01] Kayaker Magic: Yes, someone can steal the stuff, but there are also a lot of people buying that are not stealing.<br />
[11:01] Sarah Kline: I should close down my freebie store here and start selling stuff<br />
[11:02] Kayaker Magic: When the export bit is fully implemented things will get a little better.<br />
[11:02] Dahlia Trimble kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.61 m).<br />
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I've got my particle generator. I wouldn't want people making their own copies of it for sale. I put a lot of work in to it.<br />
[11:02] Shez Oyen: Kitley's market doesn't like my Paypal.. I use it all over the web but it won't work on Kitely.. I'm flumoxed<br />
[11:02] Dahlia Trimble: hi<br />
[11:03] Jak Daniels: hello all<br />
[11:03] Shez Oyen: Hi Dahlia and everyone :)<br />
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, everyone.<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves<br />
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks wonders if the cat has given up calling for me<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi shez dahlia<br />
[11:04] Shez Oyen: Rich :)<br />
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Dang, i forgot about lunch on the BBQ and burned the corn on the cob...<br />
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: In RL<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, then the future is a problem for you<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Kayaker, burning nobs fine. but corn. Noooo<br />
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Let's just call this batch "carmelized". I think it is still edible.<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Otherwise known as Cajun style. ;)<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I've just tried pinging nebadon. Not sure if he is around.<br />
[11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: gets quiet with out nebadon here lol<br />
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Well, besides lunch and Hypergrid marketplaces, any OpenSim topics to talk about?<br />
[11:12] Jak Daniels: Does anyone know if its possible to actually visualise (the mesh?) that the physics engine generates on a region for collisions?<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, why would the future be a problem for me?<br />
[11:12] Jak Daniels: I have a few all mesh terrains that sometimes seem to have invisible walls on or near the edges sometimes<br />
[11:12] Sarah Kline: developer, render metadata physics shapes<br />
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: Jak, there used to be a way with ODE to visualize the colliders<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, you keep having the same question that others mabye can sell your work.<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Dahlia: I was a little surprised by Melanie's comment here: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7278#c29133<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was under the impression that having scripts recompile at sim start-up was generally a recommended thing unless there was a strong reason not to<br />
[11:14] Jak Daniels: ah I asked my question too soon as Robert is now here and it is with bullet physics I want to visualise the collision data it creates<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but she seems to be saying the exact opposite<br />
[11:14] Jak Daniels: hi robert btw<br />
[11:14] Sarah Kline: go to your devloper menu<br />
[11:14] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: deleting scripts at startup does not delete the state files, or i didnt think it did<br />
[11:15] Sarah Kline: render metadata<br />
[11:15] Shez Oyen: Robert :)<br />
[11:15] Sarah Kline: then physics shapes<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm confused<br />
[11:15] Jak Daniels: is that advanced in replex?<br />
[11:15] Dahlia Trimble: Aine, Melanie wrote most of XEngine so I guess she knows :)<br />
[11:15] Jak Daniels: is that Advanced in replex?<br />
[11:15] Robert Adams: hello all<br />
[11:15] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi robert<br />
[11:15] Jak Daniels: oops sorry for the double type<br />
[11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Jak, I'm not aware of a way to visualize the colliders in bullet. If the viewer shows anything it's just what the viewer would thing is there in SL I guess, not actual collision geometry<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi robert<br />
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: *would think<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I'm concerned about people being able to take items to grids lacking in control over exporting items.<br />
[11:18] Sarah Kline: the geometry itself you would see in a preview when you uploaded it<br />
[11:18] Dahlia Trimble: the way I mentioned for ODE used a separate opengl program<br />
[11:18] Jak Daniels: ok thanks Dahlia. I want to visualise what the physics engine sees as colliders<br />
[11:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, im pretty sure state files are not deleted, if they were it would have cause problems for me at some point<br />
[11:18] Jak Daniels: surely the preview is what the viewer thinks not bullet sim?<br />
[11:18] Dahlia Trimble: yes its just a simulation<br />
[11:18] Robert Adams: The colllsions would have to be made available.... collisions are per object and saved in collection between ticks<br />
[11:19] Robert Adams: one could add an extended physics LSL function to fetch the collisions but there would have to be some accumulator added... what collides is not kept around for more than one tick<br />
[11:19] Dahlia Trimble: I had a lot of difficulty when I wrote most of the collision geometry code. Most shapes were tested by just walking on them. Took me a *long time*<br />
[11:19] Jak Daniels: so it doesn't 'render' then to an internal mesh or anything?<br />
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: Andrew: I think you are worrying about a low probability event, when there is a high probability of many more grids and people out there who would use your products without stealing them.<br />
[11:20] Robert Adams: the Bullet physics simulation reports a collision at a point between two objects<br />
[11:20] Jak Daniels: so a large mesh terrain's collision zone is recalcualted every time or just once on sim start?<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, hm... that comment is a little odd. I would have to look at the code. I'm surprised if it delete state files. I would only expect the compiled code files to be deleted on start up.<br />
[11:21] Robert Adams: BulletSim gets a list of (obj`, obj2, collisionPorint, penetrationDepth)<br />
[11:21] Jak Daniels: excuse my poor understanding of it lol :)<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's also set to TRUE by refulat<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which seems odd<br />
[11:21] Robert Adams: there is caching of the collisions inside Bullet so it doesn't start from scratch each tick<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: why set the default of something to the setting that you high recommend not using?<br />
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i notiched that sometimes objects get a solid bounding box. instead of shaped<br />
[11:22] Jak Daniels: so a mesh ground tile 32x32m is one object in the cache?<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, DeleteScriptsOnStartup defaults to false.<br />
[11:23] Robert Adams: I thought the problem was in a grid accepting a pre-compiled script -- none of the sanity or saftey checking done by the compiler would be in place when a grid accepted a binary script<br />
[11:24] Robert Adams: a bounding box is created by default... if BulletSim can mesh the object, the mesh is used (whether prim or actual mesh)<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I tell the mesh import process to use physics shape from object.<br />
[11:24] Robert Adams: if it doesn't mesh, it stays a bounding bo<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone sorry runnig late today<br />
[11:24] Jak Daniels: ok so if it meshes can it be somehow exported and visualized?<br />
[11:25] Shez Oyen: Neb :)<br />
[11:25] Robert Adams: if the physics shape mesh exist, that should be used by BulletSm<br />
[11:25] Robert Adams: hello Nebadon<br />
[11:25] Dahlia Trimble: hi Nebadon<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: hello :)<br />
[11:26] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi neb :)<br />
[11:26] Robert Adams: the mesher in OpenSim just creates a shape mesh... it doesn't have all the prim information (faces, ...)<br />
[11:26] Jak Daniels: ok, thanks Robert<br />
[11:26] Dahlia Trimble: the collision mesh is just a single shape, yes<br />
[11:26] Robert Adams: The mesher in libomv (MeshmerizerR) will output a displayable prim mesh<br />
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: the code that makes collision shapes for prims is the same code that makes prims for display in Radegast<br />
[11:27] Jak Daniels: ah ok, that's where I'll look then :) I'll do some code digging<br />
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: so if you want to see what a collision shape for a prim looks like, look at the prim in radegast<br />
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: meshes are handled differently<br />
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: a mesh assset can have a separate physics collider that may not look at all like the display mesh<br />
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: that collider could be a mesh or it could be "convex hulls"<br />
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: if none exists, opensim will attempt to use a display mesh for physics<br />
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: but may fail, and you get a box<br />
[11:29] Jak Daniels: ok, now I understand it better. thank you<br />
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: all of that code is in Meshmerizer.cs<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Dahlia, in secondlife you need to use many times prim mode too for a good collision shape<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: conmvex hull is bad<br />
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: Richardus, I can't say Ive tried much in SL<br />
[11:31] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nice outfit nebadon :)<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: do we even support convex hull here?<br />
[11:31] Robert Adams: BulletSim has a software convex hull approximator builder...if a mesh is made physical, it is turned into a set of convex hulls<br />
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: when I was doing the mesh colliers for opensim, I tried to make them better than SL :) Not sure I did but I did try :)<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: Robert I meant if we select Convex hull as the physics type<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: does that actually do anything?<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Dahlia, sofar i know opensim works with collision shapes better then Secondlife<br />
[11:32] Robert Adams: if a physics mesh is supplied as part of the mesh, that collection of hulls is uesed<br />
[11:33] Robert Adams: an authored physical object usually has a display mesh (high detail) and a physical mesh (lower detail for faster physics computation)<br />
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: that would be preferred<br />
[11:34] Robert Adams: Nebadon simulates that by creating cars with a phantom mesh exterior and a physical, transparent cube for the body shape<br />
[11:34] Robert Adams: this makes for good looking cars that a quicker at physical simulation<br />
[11:35] stiofain nbmcmedia: 0000<br />
[11:35] Robert Adams: use spheres for wheels (transparent) as they are quick to compute collisions for<br />
[11:35] stiofain nbmcmedia: hi folks<br />
[11:35] Dahlia Trimble: hi<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yea set the wheels to Glass too<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Why glass?<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they brake better? :p<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: less friction<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: WHat aine say, perfect brakes<br />
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: you can reduce friction more by reducing the restitution value<br />
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: The materials options offer different amounts of friction?<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: you could probably experiment with the different types I dont think there is huge variations<br />
[11:37] Dahlia Trimble: those who drive cars with glass wheels should no drive over stones?<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks laughs<br />
[11:38] Robert Adams: reducing friction (by changing material or using the script functions) works<br />
[11:39] Robert Adams: also can reduce gravity that applies to an object<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have done that in motorcycles<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: used bouyancy to keep the motorcycle upright<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: not a great solution<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:40] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: not if they float away lol<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: well it wasnt enough to float<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but enough to keep it upright<br />
[11:40] Robert Adams: there is a vehicle feature to keep motorcycles upright (with leaning when turning)<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: be neat if we had some kind of gyroscopic stabilizer function<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ah nice<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: The modern day equivalent of training wheels on a bike?<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: does that work Robert?<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i did this a long time ago<br />
[11:41] Robert Adams: I remember debugging it :)<br />
[11:41] Robert Adams: if it doesn't work, I'll take another look<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: I was talking with the person who does tech support for a grid. They were having trouble with Open Simulator sending out email. They kept getting authorization issues.<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: are they using SSL?<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Possible because opensim and many other porograms dont support pop before smtp<br />
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I did some looking in to it and the problem is that the SMTP mail code used in Open Simulator is ancient. It doesn't support a lot of the modern authentication protocols such as SSL, and TLS.<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I had trouble with SSL in newer mono versions<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: on mono 4.x<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, not sure what they have on their mail server.<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: we do support ssl for SMTP<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: because thats the only way you can use gmail<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but newer mono it doesn work<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: I had to revert back to mono 3.12<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: OS is using DotNetMail (or something like that). Its ancient. My research says it was made when there was no mail support in .NET but that is no longer the case.<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a mail class in .NET now that handles some of the newer authentication methods.<br />
[11:47] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: when i was messing with the email module i didnt even think to check if .net had any classes, interesting news<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: would be good to modernize that stuff if we can<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I was planning to file a mantis about this issue. I think the existing mail class needs to be replaced.<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: the only time i really use mail is with WiFi addon<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: never setup the llEmail stuff<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: The .NET one is listed as available in .NET 3.5 and 4.0 at least so that shouldn't cause any problems for OS as we now require one of those versions.<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yea question is does it work in mono<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a grid where we support sending forwarding IMs to offline users via email.<br />
[11:49] Robert Adams: maybe we can talk Diva to make the email change since it's used by the wifi installations<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, Would have to check but the mail class has been in .NET before 3.5 so one would hope mono picked it up already.<br />
[11:49] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we have offline im to email but we run an SMTP server so have full control there for security<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I gave him ideas on how to work around the issue such as having an SMTP server to only receive from their grid servers which could pass mail on to their primary mail server for deliver.<br />
[11:51] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: running a mail server is a nightmare, i hope i never have to touch the configs again lol<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, which mono is the minimum suggested/required for OS these days?<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Alicia, if it is Sendmail based, I don't blame you.<br />
[11:52] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: postfit<br />
[11:52] Jak Daniels: I use exim ;)<br />
[11:52] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: postfix*<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: For a while I had been using Qmail (mostly on my own machine)><br />
[11:53] Jak Daniels: mono 2.10 I thought Andrew<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'll check on the mail support in that version of mono.<br />
[11:54] Jak Daniels: but you'd be better with 3.10/3.12 I think, but 2.10 is still the baseline irc<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, I just wanted to make sure support for the newer mail class is in the lowest level of mono used with OS.<br />
[11:55] Dahlia Trimble: I always had good luck with 2.10.8.1<br />
[11:55] Dahlia Trimble: using 3.99 now, is good so far<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I was using that but I'm on 3 something now.<br />
[11:55] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0b5385f: 2015-08-11 11:55:51 +0300 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: 3.2.8 is what I have now.<br />
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: most 3.x I had trouble with, often memory trouble<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm using it on my own machine to run a Standalone. I have lots of memory these days. :)<br />
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: :)<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Recently updated my machine and now have 16G.<br />
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: other people seemed to like 3.x better than me lol<br />
[11:58] Dahlia Trimble: my grid server is 16gb, usually about half is used. 50ish instances<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a grid server running 32G and it is only using mono to run Robust.<br />
[12:00] Kayaker Magic kommt in Chat-Reichweite (9.05 m).<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I let nebadon experiment with the different versions of mono and see how he fares. :)<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Another hour has gone by. Should we wrap this up and leave quietly so as to not wake up nebadon? ;)<br />
[12:02] Dahlia Trimble suspects Nebadon might be biased towards the highest revision number....<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yeah, nebadon is the mono (screwup :) ) king.<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I know he has tried the 4 versions<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone else have topics they want to talk about?<br />
[12:03] Robert Adams: I'm going to run... take care all... see you in Mantis :)<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: ok tc, Robert<br />
[12:04] Dahlia Trimble: bye Robert<br />
[12:04] Jak Daniels: thanks Robert, bye<br />
[12:04] Dahlia Trimble: think I go too. bye all :)<br />
[12:04] Jak Daniels: bye dahlia<br />
[12:04] Kayaker Magic: I keep getting logged out anyway....<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, sounds like it is time to wrap things up for another week.<br />
[12:05] Kayaker Magic: Anyone else get kicked off?<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha hour over<br />
[12:05] Jak Daniels: no but I did experience chat lag earlier<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Not me. Seemed fine today.<br />
[12:05] stiofain nbmcmedia: well i wanted to ask is dev team being restructured but spose am too late<br />
[12:05] Jak Daniels: anyway...bye everyone... cya!<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I need to head out too<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a great week everyone<br />
[12:06] Kayaker Magic: Oh, just looked at the internet health report. Pretty bad day.<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'm going to head out too.<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: restructured? That implies there is a structure to the team. :)<br />
[12:07] stiofain nbmcmedia: lol andrew<br />
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Was there a specific concern you have, stiofain?<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, zie jyou all. bye<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-08-04Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-042015-10-25T22:56:36Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's not running good here for me. we can blame 2 things<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i gte hickups<br />
[11:04] Sheera Khan: a little bit of lag today ...<br />
[11:04] Master Dubrovna: yes seems to be<br />
[11:04] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: just alittle<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: strange, just get unable to upoad error or load<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: jcikups gone. but my skin texture too<br />
[11:05] Sheera Khan: I had that too<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and my avb layer is gone too<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: alpah . oops<br />
[11:05] Sheera Khan: i relogged to a metropolis region to reload my Inventory<br />
[11:06] Sheera Khan: that way I was sure to be fully rezzed<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and with rewear from suitecase the hicups are back.<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: everybody looks kinless for me<br />
[11:06] Sheera Khan: I heard one is a bit of a burden for a region if one tps in without being fully rezzed<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the viewers with win109 are already a bit borked with mouse<br />
[11:07] Shez Oyen: yes.. alphas are showing as white<br />
[11:07] Shez Oyen: the lag is just too bad<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: I logged in here with cleared cache<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: things seemed to load ok for me<br />
[11:08] Shez Oyen: I see myself and othes with ghost white skin<br />
[11:08] Shez Oyen: and no alphas<br />
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: Same here.<br />
[11:08] Master Dubrovna: same here<br />
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: Got an error loading some textures "try again later"<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i use 8.1.1 on my region<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I seem to see everyone ok<br />
[11:08] Shez Oyen: textures are slowly popping in<br />
[11:08] Sheera Khan: I see myself ok, and just now some skins are appearing<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe some network issues perhaps<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm yes i see skins too now<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: cool<br />
[11:09] Shez Oyen: Master as well?<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably slow networks or somethign today<br />
[11:09] Shez Oyen: his top is still white to me<br />
[11:09] Master Dubrovna: Yeah I see me like that too<br />
[11:09] Master Dubrovna: I know I am on a slow network<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: maybe rebake<br />
[11:09] Sheera Khan: I see you white too Master<br />
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I'm textued OK now, other people still look white<br />
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: filling in one texture at a time<br />
[11:10] Shez Oyen: lot's of folks missing today<br />
[11:11] Sheera Khan: do we have an ISDN link here?<br />
[11:11] Sheera Khan: the textures are popping in _very_ slowly<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have a weird problem, singulairty or opensim. teleporting lets say home on var from other location on same far is not showing the teleport until i hit escape. then the world moves to my avatar new location.<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: heh no this server is on 100mb<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: there could be issues outside of the data center though<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: everything seemed to load nice and fast for me today<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: also possible the region may need to be restarted<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i did not get a chance to restart it today<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: let's blame netflix for it. trfiic jam in the ocean<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:13] Shez Oyen: LOL<br />
[11:13] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.67 m).<br />
[11:14] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: chat lag?<br />
[11:14] Robert Adams: hello all... attending fromy phone today<br />
[11:14] Shez Oyen: Hi Robert.. maybe rebake?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Incase you guys missed it, we have invited AliciaRaven to be a core developer, she accepted and is now able to push code directly to git<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good news<br />
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: I'm looking at the internet health report, At&T has a 14% packet loss<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya I saw yesterday Comcast had some kind of major outage<br />
[11:14] Shez Oyen: ahh<br />
[11:15] Sheera Khan: Yaaayy for Alicia :-)<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yea good news with Alicia, another core developer on board :)<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Robert I did upgrade Sisyphus and enable that FireandForget thing<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt do a ton of testing<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: tried a couple vehicles so far, no bad side effects so far anyway<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: is that to fix the collision issues?<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: need to fire up npcs again see if i can get that to fail<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: any one else have anything going on?<br />
[11:18] Robert Adams: my testing said collisions still work. some people thought the regions were more responsive<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: cool<br />
[11:19] Robert Adams: that fix was trying to find the collisions going away problem<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I will try to expand my testing soon<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I need to break out my NPC test rig again<br />
[11:20] Robert Adams: I'm also going to add a console command to output collision info<br />
[11:21] Robert Adams: If this fixes the problem, it will give somewhere to look<br />
[11:21] Robert Adams: If it doesn't fix it, I will go back to look in at Bulletin<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ok I will let you know how it goes<br />
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: What is the status of vehicles crossing SIM borders?<br />
[11:23] Kayaker Magic: (Or even non-physical objects crossing borders)<br />
[11:23] Robert Adams: No status. I don't think anyone is working on it at the moment<br />
[11:24] Robert Adams: We need more core developers:)<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I am going to fosscon in a few weeks<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: going to wear my OSCC shirt :)<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: http://fosscon.us<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: see if I can spread the word a bit<br />
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: When is OSCC this year?<br />
[11:26] Shez Oyen: August<br />
[11:26] Shez Oyen: oh<br />
[11:26] Shez Oyen: nevermind<br />
[11:26] Kayaker Magic: AHH! SOON!<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure we will do OSCC this year<br />
[11:26] Robert Adams: That's now<br />
[11:26] Shez Oyen: That guy holding up the sandwich looks pretty happy with himself<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but that doesnt mean we will not do it again<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its just everyone is soo busy right now<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think, there's more virtual news next year then this year<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: Diva was talking about doing another opensimulator release soon<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: Justin used to do all the releases so we are kind of transitioning and figuring out the best way to do releases from now on<br />
[11:29] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev c4f8630: 2015-08-03 16:25:45 +0300 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: waiting to see if Justin had some scripts he was using before we do to much<br />
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: I've been gone for a few months, what's up with Justin?<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: He has taken on a new Job, unreleated to opensimulator and virtual worlds in general<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: he had to move and is now focusing for the time being on his new job<br />
[11:31] Shez Oyen: For every thing, turn, turn, turn<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br />
[11:32] Shez Oyen: :)<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: fosscon should be interesting<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: im really only going because its so close to my house<br />
[11:34] Shez Oyen: I was just reading the website about it.. looks like fun<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yea nice way to kill a day :)<br />
[11:35] Shez Oyen: Get a t-shirt.. a little gnosh<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: did you guys see the ridable NPC animals?<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think not<br />
[11:37] Shez Oyen: I don't think I have either<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: there was a Elephant, and a tiger<br />
[11:38] Robert Adams: That would be cool, where are they?<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: no mouse ? :)<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: letme see if i can rez it here I have to log into my avacon account and send it here<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[11:38] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: yes I have seen them<br />
[11:38] Vimeo Player v1.0: You are not the owner of this screen!!<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no idea if this will work here<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it need to rezz first<br />
[11:40] Shez Oyen: yeah it could take a min or two<br />
[11:40] Shez Oyen: the lag is pretty gruesome<br />
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: Neb you are stuck in a sitting animation from the chair.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya not suprised<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that happens<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb looks fine for me, but working on invisible thing<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: oh hmm 1 sec let me check something<br />
[11:43] Kayaker Magic: No one wants to talk about the elephant in the room... :)<br />
[11:43] Shez Oyen: LOL<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: bah<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tiger,elephant, neb. then new game. elephant wins from tigher. and neb from the elephantr<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya its not going to work here<br />
[11:44] Shez Oyen: phhhttt<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: some script error. ossl or something not running ?<br />
[11:44] Elephant Rider V 2: Script running<br />
[11:44] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: Elephant Rider V 2: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.Shared.ScriptException: OSSL Runtime Error: osNpcRemove permission denied. Script creator is not in the list of users allowed to execute this function and prim owner also has<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: ya wierd cause I should be<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: my other NPCs worked here before<br />
[11:45] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: script error<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha. you have ossl disabled here ? gosh<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mabye becasue ossl permission changsx?<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: no but just that particular function isnt enabled<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea its possible when dan updated to new osslEnabled my settings got wiped out<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: why i cant do it now<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: let me see one other thing<br />
[11:46] Shez Oyen: I hate when that happens<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: make myself estate manager<br />
[11:46] Elephant kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.18 m).<br />
[11:46] Elephant Rider V 2 flüstert: Use arrow keys to steer. PG Up to gallop, Pg Down to walk.<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha, i see the elephant<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: oh some progress<br />
[11:46] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: yay<br />
[11:46] Shez Oyen: Hey!<br />
[11:46] Shez Oyen: I can at least see it now<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's talking about threatlevel too<br />
[11:47] Elephant Rider V 2 flüstert: Use arrow keys to steer. PG Up to gallop, Pg Down to walk.<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya still not enough perms<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: boo<br />
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: This is why I have given up on ever using OSSL functions...<br />
[11:48] Elephant Rider V 2 flüstert: Use arrow keys to steer. PG Up to gallop, Pg Down to walk.<br />
[11:48] Sheera Khan: it's a bit folded for me<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: I will make sure its setup proper for next week :)<br />
[11:48] Shez Oyen: that is a really nicely done elephant.. what I can see of it<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its fully rigged and animated<br />
[11:48] Shez Oyen: Cool<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: you guys want to see it<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we can TP some where and see<br />
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: I can wait until next week and see it here<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: grid.avacon.org:8002 Community<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to check it out, its near the landing area<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and yea I will show it off next week for sure<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its very cool<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: you can make it run<br />
[11:50] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: You had a giant red ant that would be cool ro rig<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: that was sculpty<br />
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: too many legs<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea would probably not be possible to do anything but quadra-peds<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: if you guys have not checked it out<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: check this website out<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi ruft: http://www.outworldz.com/<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: this is the guy who made the ridable NPCs<br />
[11:53] Snakedance Moonwing: :)<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I was working on a system issue and forgot about the meeting.<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hey Andrew, no worries<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: anything you wanted to talk about?<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: The only problem I'm having is that avatar textures won't stay in 0.8.1<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I see avatar texture in edit appearance. Soon after leaving edit appearance my avatar starts turning white.<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Happens on two different grids running 0.8.1-post-fixes and with 4 avatars in one of the test grids.<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to downgrade one of the test grids to 0.8.0 and see if the problem goes away.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: hmm yea thats a wierd one<br />
[12:00] Lucy.Afarensis @hg.osgrid.org: Gotta go been interesting<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Right now, I can't use 0.8.1<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: you are seeing the same thing on multiple machines?<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: or just your own machine?<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Two different machines.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: k<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Two different databases.<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: console log says there is missing texture and it is requesting a rebake.<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: says that 5 times right after it seems to save is has saved 5 textures (i have enabled xbakes).<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and have you tried creating a completely new avatar?<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: wondering if its everything, or just assets existing before upgrade<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: The regions are rezzing. There is one missing(?) texture on one of the rezzed boxes that is in the region. Otherwise, the world looks ok.<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I've done cache clears in viewer and in regions. If it is a DB corruption, it is a strange one.<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: wierd for sure<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: not much I can offer other than try to pinpoint if there is a difference between new and old stuff<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: quite a bit as changed since then for sure<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-07-28Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-282015-10-25T22:56:24Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a little tricky having a dev meeting with no devs in attendance<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hee vivian. finding my pins back ? can be exiting if you crawl around the bugs :P<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Richardus....do any of the regions you're hosting have a Shoutcast board on them?<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (re http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7647)<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hi aine. no never used a shoutcast board. i just knew this word since this year<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: offcorse i know what shoutcast is<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: or at least i neve rplaced one<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon is on his way<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was just curious if you'd seen that memory issue<br />
[11:13] Snakedance.Moonwing @snaketopia.darktech.org:8002: hello :)<br />
[11:13] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.35 m).<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but my system, seems stable<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: sorry I am late everyone<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had one sitting in my test region for the last couple days and it's doing nothing at all to eat memory and when I looked through the (billion!) scripts in it I couldn't see anything that looked horid<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hii snake<br />
[11:13] Snakedance.Moonwing @snaketopia.darktech.org:8002: i;ve come to snoop :)<br />
[11:13] Vivian Klees flüstert: better late than never :)<br />
[11:13] Snakedance.Moonwing @snaketopia.darktech.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (9.39 m).<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but both Ken and Seth have encountered sudden memory bloating from it<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, nebadon is wearing on of his interesting avatars today.<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Ken said he figured out why<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it was a scrpt<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh really:?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: which is what I figured it was<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: he posted IAR of the object<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: do you know which one?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its a Shoutcast Board<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its on the Mantis<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, I am a dev. Just not a very active one in the main parts of OS.<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: he removed object<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and memory bloat stopped<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I looked through the scripts there and couldn't see anything suspicioius<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so we have a start point<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: which is good<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh, sorry Andrew<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya it could be anything honestly<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: Xengine needs a lot of love<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt its the source of tons of issues<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's all keyframe type texture calls....no dynamic draws<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, np. :) I'm also a core member.<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so all the function calls are pretty run of the mill<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is the shoutcast baord using dynamic textures ?<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would be interesting to track down what's causing it though<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's all LSL<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has about 30+ scripts in it<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and a lot of very short duration llSleeps<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but no dynamic textures<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: ewww<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: short duration llSleeps?<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it uses a texture with the alphabet and numbers on it<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then uses texture tile settings to display the one it wants<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sort of like akeyframing it<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah....like llSleep (0.2)<br />
[11:17] Snakedance.Moonwing @snaketopia.darktech.org:8002: i hope its alright if i sit here quietly and listen :)<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Snakedance, everyone is welcome<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: absolutely Snakedance<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but as many as 20+ scripts calling that llSleep, frequently<br />
[11:17] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.21 m).<br />
[11:17] Snakedance.Moonwing @snaketopia.darktech.org:8002: ok :)<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Did I saw ewww already? :)<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I would have expected that to cause thread starvation, not a sudden memory bloat<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, what do you get for the script runtime for that device?<br />
[11:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (3.19 m).<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: sleep = bad<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: negligible<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you can look in the script aine , mabye you can see how it works<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: I would avoid sleep at all costs<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: sleep is fine. Short sleep can be bad.<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 0.008ms when idle<br />
[11:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: hello to all<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if you have lots of sleeps expect trouble<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I avoid sleeps completely<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it will eventually lead to threading issues<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: light use is ok<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't use sleeps less than 1 second if I need them.<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: just dont get too reliant on it<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only time I ever call it is right after deleting a notecard and about to create a new notecard with the same name<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I had to use one in between two calls that triggered an llHTTPRequest or the second call got lost.<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that way the old one is out of inventory before the new one gets created<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yea timing can be very problematic<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: because of how we handle threads<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ll sleep are doing complex and change state to create a sleep. then i choice for short llsleep (0.2 or lower)<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I also use it right after an avi first sits to give it time to have the sit status kick in<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: otherwise I really, really avoid it<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway....it would be very good to know *what* in that shoutcast board is causing that occasional memory bloat<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: some of the other stuff for the device makes me think of xytext<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea I havent had a chance to look at it yet<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: but im guessing its chock full of timers and sleeps<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it is<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its the only real way to make those things work<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but why would those cause memory bloating?<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: threads hung<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: never letting go<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: why does it need all those scripts and timers/sleeps?<br />
[11:22] Krysss.Galatea @login.digiworldz.com:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.32 m).<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: do you think it somehow loses a thread and it never gets released<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: sleeps just kill threading<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:22] Krysss.Galatea @login.digiworldz.com:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.36 m).<br />
[11:22] Dahlia Trimble kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.27 m).<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: xengine is not so great at threading<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Is the shoutcast board open source?<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is a sleep takes a full thread<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and that would be worse on a linux box because it will never get cleaned up<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: sleeps basically shut xneinge off<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, it's opensource<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't ahve one in my suitcase<br />
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.89 m).<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: yea 1 sec<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but there's an iar of it in the Mantis<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: he sent me a copy<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: crap<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Pass me a copy sometime and I'll have a look at it<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: its no mod no copy<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: figures 1 sec<br />
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: hi<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: uh oh. SOmething just went poof?<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had it sitting in my test region for 3 days and it hasn't done anything to the memory<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: That was odd. Part of the building vanished for a moment/<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: there you go ANdrew<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that's running under .NET so maybe Windows is killing those threads<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: ty, Nebadon<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: xengine is no better in Windows than Linux<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of threading<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: sleeps would work better if we did microthreading i suspect<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: then no single sleep could kill an entire thread<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well....mostly trying to think of differences between Ken & Seth vs my setup<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and they're both on mono-hosted regions vs my test region is .NET<br />
[11:25] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: what is better ?<br />
[11:25] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: co-op odr aboard<br />
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I know people who have shoutcast streams so I can do testing with them.<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did co-op not have problems with llsleep ?<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: well in mono most people are running single AppDomain<br />
[11:26] Shoutcast Radio & DJ Board.1.9/works flüstert: Reading config notecard...<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: where Windows is usaully running multiple app domains<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: running seperate app domains<br />
[11:26] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: true<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: wats a ton more memory<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it works fine on windowx :)<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: x = s :O<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: that could be why windows appears to use more memory<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: then there is 32bit vs 64bit<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: 64bit always appears to use more memory<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: could be many reasons why honestly<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mhmmm<br />
[11:28] Dahlia Trimble: references are twice the size in 64 bit<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: differences in memory use are many; but once you have a sort of baseline for your own setup your eyebrows tend to go up when there's a drastic change<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the other day I suddenly dropped from a little over 1GB down to 250MB and haven't the faintest idea why<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then after the next startup it was back up to 875MB which is "normal" for me<br />
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: memory is very difficult to measure in a managed environment<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: You also wonder what's gone wrong when the memory usage drops drastially.<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so how it was managing to only use 250 for a day or two is mystifying<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: s/drastially/drastically/<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I checked to make sure the system was reporting that same amount so it wasn't just a case of Opensim mis-reporting<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: only thing I could think is maybe xengine or something actually hung up<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and even though things appeared to be working, may not have been<br />
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: a lot depends on how often and how successful garbage collection runs<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: doubt it....everything was working fine<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: well it could be also how .net and mono handle resources<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: as resources tighten on the machine<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: they may get more aggressive in garbage collection<br />
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've just never seen that happen before<br />
[11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: Garbage collection in seems to be a weird and sometimes unpredictable thing in most applications.<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: .net is way more aggressive than mono is<br />
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: mono GC has always had problems<br />
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: over time mine normally climbs at if fails to clear our meshes that I'm working on<br />
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so eventually I have to restart<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: orders of magnitude more aggressive<br />
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but i've never seen it suddenly drop so drastically<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yea me either<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: not that drastic<br />
[11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I have<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: usually for me its the other way<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: one day a region is using 3 times more memory<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: to only 1/4 of the baseline start-up value?<br />
[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: The only two things I can think is either a little-run garbage collection triggered or something in the simulator that's normally bloating memory was gone or inactive.<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah....it's just the regions on that instance are pretty light.....4 of them with maybe 250 scripts total and a bunch of assorted mesh objects so it's usually very stable<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: and this is on Windows right Aine?<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I hadn't done anything unusual at all in that 24-hour period<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, Win7-64<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: are you running AppDomainLoading = true?<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: 1gb for such light regions seems very high<br />
[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: I've had my sandbox run wild and even crash because someone rezzed less than that. Never figurte out why, just something knocked stuff out of whack.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: When Right Plaza starts up initallly<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its only using like 900mb or something<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: this region is insane<br />
[11:36] Dahlia Trimble: I can't say I've ever seen .NET GC fail, but I've seem Mono fail a *lot*<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: AppDomainLoading=True does really shoot memory up high<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: you might try false<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: you can run false in windows<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: it will use a lot less memory<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's running set to true<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but usually memory isn't an issue for me<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: worth experimenting<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it might help with threading too though<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it's not a case of bloat....it's a case of that sudden inexplicable drop<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it was running 4 regions with all its stuff in it in just under 250MB of process memory<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which was....surprising<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: 4 regions in a single instance?<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hmm<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the biggest region 2var's 3x3 only use 1GB on my windows. and appdom must be true<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: one instance btw<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: im leaning towards something with AppDomains malfunctioning<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: normally those 4 regions are using about 800MB on start-up<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: seeing that drastic<br />
[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: That itself seems high<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its the only thing I can think that would swing so far with memory like that<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: thats one of the big problems with running multiple region instances<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: keep in mind that when I say a "bunch of mesh" I'm talking about a *lot* of high poly models :p<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you are really cutting up resource availability<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: thats why i refuse to use it myself<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: always 1:1 for my stuff<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Naughty aine.. not sounds really optimized<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's not a public-accessible set of regions<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: personally I wish we didnt allow it<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: refuse to use mesh??<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they're my testing/experimentation/NDA workplace<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: refuse to have support for multiple region simulators<br />
[11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: That works unless you have many regions. dealing with 9 instances is enough as it is.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but I wont go there<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: I know most people like it<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so it doesn't need to be optimized<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: That makes ore sense<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: s/ore/more/<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if anything gets out of whack I just restart<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anything that I have open to public access is 1:1<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ah<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: It should be much less necessary once vars can properly coexist among other regions<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nebadon it's ok. if you don't abuse it. and there's the problem there are some people that abuse it and put 30 sims on one simulator and pump it full with prims etc.<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: so Aine<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: the only ones you have trouble with<br />
[11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: THat was usually my reason for large numbers of regions<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: are Multiple Region Simulators?<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: or no?<br />
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: I like multiple region instances :P<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: it is convienient for sure Dahlia<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I almost never have any trouble at all with mine....and suddenly freeing up a ton of memory isn't a "problem" :p...just a cuirosity<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but I think ultimately is the source of many problems for people<br />
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I used to run up to 9 regions in one but that was ages ago.<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: well it could be a problem<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the one where Ken is experiencing issues with shoutcast board I think is a *lot* of regions running on it<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it saves me resources to but in this case 23 vars on one simuator and it dont have any impact<br />
[11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Multiple region instances aren't bad. I most use them for "borders" or non-square/rectangular areas that are lightweight<br />
[11:43] Dahlia Trimble: I don't see people having extraordinary problems with them<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: to me Sudden huge memory shift downward<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: to me that says something is not loading<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I don't know whether he's running 1:1 or something else<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: and maybe your just not noticing<br />
[11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: I'd never try to run say, multiple plazas in one instance though<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, check the region stats for the number of active scripts and number of script lines per second<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: to me thats just as alarming as memory use trippeling or something<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh. that i would not do too otaku<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: yea it would be good to capture the stats<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: for comarison<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: when memory is normal vs memory is high<br />
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... how many copies of this region under one Simulator instance would it take to grind things to a halt?<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: definitely focus on scripts<br />
[11:44] Dahlia Trimble: so many conclustions drawn from a problem that's not understood<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is thats where the problem is<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Usually the only times I have issues with multi-region instances is if it's a huge number like 40+ or they're heavily loaded.<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 2-3<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Otherwise mostly-empty regions sit there very nicely<br />
[11:45] OSG8B POSTER: active<br />
[11:45] Morgana XSmit kommt in Chat-Reichweite (17.20 m).<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's 4 regions so it's reporting them separately<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: doing the math....<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: sure. You could have a nice sailing area that are all under a single instance<br />
[11:46] Morgana XSmit kommt in Chat-Reichweite (17.28 m).<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya mostly its just to compare that you have the same script loads running etc..<br />
[11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: Or just make a var, now.<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 190 scripts loaded.....0 scripts waiting to load.....roughly 1.3 million events processed<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 4 sensors....9 timers<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 8 listeners<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I think its pretty clear from what Ken_S has shown that all it takes is 1 bad script<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and your memory consumption can double or tripple or more<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, if you have webstats enabled you can get the ActScr and ScLPS number.<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: 190 scripts isn't that many<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya in Ken_S case it was 1 script<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah....it's very light....as I say it's my test instance (and I don't have webstats enabled)<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so many times people have come to IRC<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Bad scripts often show up on top scripts with high run times<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: all the sudden their region stars acting odd<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: lag, or more memorh<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: so many times its 1 item in the region<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: a lost vehicle, a physical prim stuck on border<br />
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: I bet I could crash a sim with one script ^.^<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: shoutcast board was tiny when I last looked at it<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: hehe im sure you could Dahlia<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 0.008ms iitc<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i bet I could as well :)<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: what about when it isn't idle, or does it only go active for a very short period of time?<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: If it is the shoutcast board, disable its scripts then see if the region perks up again<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't monitoried it closely enough when in use....I had hoped to get to that yesterday but got tied up in something else<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: Andew as soon as he removed the board things got better was my understanding<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the one that's quite a lot more concerning is a case where memory isn't being released after people leave a region<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Sounds like something in the device causing problems. Shouldn't be just its prims.<br />
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nebdon, is the board using lists etc ?<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I havent had a chance to review ityt Richardus<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: That shoutcast box is no mod so I'll have to see what parts of it have the no mod perms.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I sent you a copy Richardus<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: anyone else wants a copy just let me know<br />
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: I'll take one<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Is the shoutcast box something that originated over in SL?<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in my Hedonism sim after start-up it's using hardly anything (200MB), then during a party as people arrive it will slowly climb to somewhere in the 700-800MB range (sometimes higher)....but then after everyone has left and the region is empty it never settles back down to under 600MB (sometimes even higher)<br />
[11:52] Dahlia Trimble: ty<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: fedex delivery dispatched :)<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so that excess 400+MB is never released<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: meh, no mod. so cannot look here<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if I do another party there before restarting the instance it will continue to grow like that<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ever?<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, it might be using sensors to determine how many people are listening to the stream?<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: never<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: i t will *never* release until instance start<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats kind of unusual in .net<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sensor cannot know how many listen<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: that likely means its outside of AppDomains<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: unless your running false<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's in Hedonism which Seth hosts on the RG servers so ApDomains= false on that one<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: oh<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats why<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: what happens with False<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, assumes that the people in the area are listening perhaps? Or using it for some kind of statistic?<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you get a single AppDomain for all scripts<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you can never unload them<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats expected behavior for mono<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so even though I disallow scripts it's going to just eat memory for every worn script that enters the region?<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: one of the proposes design changes by Justin was to seperate Avatar app domains<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: so tha each avatar has thier own domain<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that gets closed when they leave the region<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would make sense<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: If the device is from SL I've sometimes made small changes to scripts from there to really improve their performance.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: what they do In SL<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: with app domains<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: is that when the app domain hits a certain threshold<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: they start a new app domain and transfer over only active states<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: then close old one<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: a rough GC basically<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: they can even move app domain to a new region<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and move all avatars simulanouesly<br />
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: how did you find that out?<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: there was a guy that used to come here a lot<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: that worked on it<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: I forget his name now<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: he used to pass me details on exploits he would find<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: latif or soemthing like that ?<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and I would pass them along to Melanie or Diva<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: If it used something like linked lists you could just drop the entry that points to an app domain block and it would free things up faster. No need for app domain on or off.<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: to fix<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: This hour flew by<br />
[12:00] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :)<br />
[12:00] Vivian Klees: bye Dahlia<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to hit a sandbox and unpack this shoutcast stuff.<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: See you next week.<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a good week, all<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya dang I cant remember the guys name oh well<br />
[12:01] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 8aa75f2: 2015-07-26 14:09:17 +0300 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 is going to head out too<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks everyone<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: see you next week! :)<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Scroll down your list of friends/<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I did I am not sure why he isnt on my friends list<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: he was a very secretive kind of person heh<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: he was not a Linden<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: that's probaby why<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: he was a contractor hired to find exploits<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: in SL<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: secretive so didn't exchange friendship<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and he helped find them here in his free time as well<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, cool.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: he was very knowledgable of the back end of SL<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, I'm off to a sandbox then logging out. ttyl<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: see you guys!<br />
[12:03] Snakedance.Moonwing @snaketopia.darktech.org:8002: :)<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: Sheera an you post logs?<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: I missed 12 minutes in begining again<br />
[12:03] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: yes Neb - just arrived back<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: thanks!<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-07-21Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-212015-10-25T22:55:57Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:04] OtakuMegane Desu: I think some is/was simply because the default stuff couldn't scale well enough<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: obviously there are limits to how they implement just due to sheer scale<br />
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: then the default stuff need to improve<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:04] OtakuMegane Desu: ^ Just what I was thinking<br />
[11:04] OtakuMegane Desu: Talking about FSAssets?<br />
[11:04] OtakuMegane Desu: Assets has been the biggest one I believe, yes<br />
[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: well, it seems that's only for large grids<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but they at least need to make their non-core stuff compatible with core<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: otherwise they're causing serious issues when HGing<br />
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: if it's not opensim that gives problems , the viewer will be someday<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any OSG user hits our grid entry about 2x to 3x as hard as visitors to other grids while the region and grid server deal with all the errors OSG throws<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: when we have visitors from Kitely or the Nook or Metro they use a lot fewer resources on entry<br />
[11:06] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: groups and profiles isnt due to scaling, they just stuck with the old non core stuff to avoid any migrations when the core modules arived<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and typically use half the memory<br />
[11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Though if non-core or customized things are going to be a thing, Opensim should handle them better as well.<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, how much of that onus is on Opensim vs on the non-core module writers?<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: personally I think if you use non-core modules you need to keep them up to date to be compatible with Opensim, not the other way around<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Opensim is already f***ed up enough trying to maintain support for versions as ancient as 0.72<br />
[11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: If Opensim is going to be designed to handle outside modules then it needs to have a solid hook point and guidelines. Then it's up to module writers to meet those guidelines<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes...it's very poorly documented, that's for sure<br />
[11:09] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i recently found that on sim startup, two map tiles are generated, one for v1 maps and another for v2-3, waste of resources<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi kommt in Chat-Reichweite (10.64 m).<br />
[11:10] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi nebadon<br />
[11:10] OtakuMegane Desu: Really? Why would that even be a thing...<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hello sorry I am late, totally got distracted<br />
[11:10] OtakuMegane Desu kommt in Chat-Reichweite (4.52 m).<br />
[11:10] OtakuMegane Desu: Hey Neb :)<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Alicia...is there any chance you might be able to look at the way xml are being done....it seems anything made by a linux system is borked if you try to open it in a sim running underr Win<br />
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: what\s the logic about that alice ?<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I believe AIAustin or Ferd found the source of the problem<br />
[11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the map modules for v1 and v2-3 work totaly independently of each other<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: something that linux is appending to a name<br />
[11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: is there a mantis aine?<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a colon or semi-colon<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: let me see if I can find it<br />
[11:11] Sarah Kline kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.72 m).<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: at present it's wreaking havoc on almost all HG asset transfers<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: what is the problem?<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ive been moving HG stuff around like crazy lately<br />
[11:12] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: there is an issue with fs assets config that i need to look at, havnt had time these past few days<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: tyou don't run Windows, Neb<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: oooh<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: right I saw that mantis<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its a path thing in ini right?<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you send something to someone standing in a Win-hosted sim it will fail to unpack<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya we should fix that asap for sure<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, Ir at least I gather from what AiAustin and Ferd found ti's a case where linux is appending a colon or semi-colon somewhere that it shouldn't<br />
[11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the fs assets yes, i dont see why its causing problems, its the same format as other config includes and i checked the line endings of the ini examples i added<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hmm wierd<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: that may be a difference in mono vs .net<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: not something we are doing<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: there are other places that has happened too<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: we can probably avoid it though<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't find the mantis on it....someone probably closed it thinking they'd fixed it<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: so your saying someone running fsassets on windows Aine?<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: or just a simulator running windows that connects to fsassets?<br />
[11:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: xml and fsassets different issues neb<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I missed some of the conversation I think heh<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, this has nothing at all to do with FAssets<br />
[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: this one aine ? http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7640<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no it's not map tile generation<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's straight HG object transfer<br />
[11:17] Richardus Raymaker: ok<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I pick something up while HGed or you send me something<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there was a bug in older simulators<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: that justin introduced just prior to OSCC<br />
[11:17] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: ah thats the patch i submitted for the double maptile render waste of resources on startup<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: that diva fixed recently<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the originating region is running linux and you then try to rez it in Windows<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: anything transfered over HG during that time<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (in a reggion runing windows)<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: that object is likely permascrewed<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it will fail<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nope<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can tp to a region running linux and it will rez<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then when I take it back into inventory and go to my win-hosted region it's fine<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: running old code?<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's only when sent via HG<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: this is fixed in master already<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but again<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: those objects are permanantly going to be damaged<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: both running the most current code there is<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: hmm<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and these are older objects though?<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if the object was transferd before the bug fixed<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: those objects will never rez properly ever again<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: the originals in source grid will be fine<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this is a brand new object, newly created<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: but any copies in the remote HG region will be broken<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ok<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: wierd<br />
[11:19] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (4.30 m).<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and "packed" in a region running current git master under linux<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then send that you over HG<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if you stand in a Windows-hosted region it WILL NOT rez and will throw error message on your console<br />
[11:20] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: hello<br />
[11:20] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi wolf<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you stand in a linux-hosted region is will be fine<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: hmm wierd I wonder if divas fix got undone or something<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: this sounds exactly like what she just fixed a few weeks ago<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if you rez it in that linux-hosted region, then take it back into inventory, then go to your win-hosted region it will be fine<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: I will try that out later<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: have to fire up a windows VM<br />
[11:21] Minerva McGonagall kommt in Chat-Reichweite (6.12 m).<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: we are running under Melanie's git of 2015-07-14 which is the top of the list<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so most recent git there is<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: melanies git?<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: r/26106<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=c7f6e248e8544200871a1bf814f34e2ee0f9d977<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's is the most recent commit to git master<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and that's what the regions are running under<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=shortlog&p=opensim<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: k<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i will give this a shot in a bit<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: unless there are some commit hiding, that's the most recent one<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: it is<br />
[11:24] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, if you get time could u test my map patch at some point?<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't find the Mantis on it<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: sure<br />
[11:25] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: shocking waste to see two tiles generated at startup like that<br />
[11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: Aine, if you had a watch on that bug you might be able to find it that way<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: looks good Alicia i'll try it out in a bit<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then I'd have 1000 Mantis in my watch list and still not be able to find it :p<br />
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.90 m).<br />
[11:27] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: cool thanks neb<br />
[11:29] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aiaustin is very quick to close mantis issues, he just closed one that i still have outstanding question and additions, totally disregarded my comments and closed it :(<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you can always reopen it<br />
[11:30] OtakuMegane Desu: Sounds like aisustin needs some schooling in when to close reports.<br />
[11:31] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i noticed in the past he has closed his bug reports with comments like, found a way round it, or not using this anymore<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: well just let him know, Ai is a nice guy<br />
[11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: k, i will reopen it later<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia :)<br />
[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: Saying "found a way around it" when closing a report isn't good. The "way around" should be documented in case others will find the method useful.<br />
[11:33] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yep<br />
[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: speaking of documentation, I went to load an oar the other day and there are bunch of switches that are NOT documented anywhere<br />
[11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: which ones?<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: console says: load oar [--merge] [--skip-assets] [--default-user "User Name"] [--force-terrain] [--force-parcels] [--no-objects] [--rotation degrees] [--rotation-center "<x,y<br />
,z>"] [--displacement "<x,y,z>"] [<OAR path>] - Load a region's data from an OAR archive.<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: almost none of those are documented<br />
[11:36] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev a7543a3: 2015-07-13 19:04:45 +0200 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim_Archives<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only documented switches are skip assets and merge<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: none of the others are<br />
[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: part is possible in some way documented by the var oar loading<br />
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Load_Oar<br />
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: they are all on that page i think<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk<br />
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then there needs to be a link to that from the archiving page since when you're trying to find that information is isn't something readily discovered<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: anyone can edit the wiki :)<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: fine, I'll do it and if I break the page so be it<br />
[11:39] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: Aine, the main page u linked has the link to that page under the heading Switches sub heading Loading<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: if you break something just let me know<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: wiki has version control<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its very easy to revert<br />
[11:40] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: it says "This is an overview of the most common parameters. There are many more documented at Load Oar. "<br />
[11:40] UUID Speaker: barbara68.resident @astraliacraft.it: b446a0b7-e4c0-4c83-8352-c3363e66f91c<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess it must be my bad eyesight...I didn't see that link<br />
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: it doesnt standout very well<br />
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: it's not your eyes. it's the tinmy font tick the world have this days :O<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have trouble differentiating almost-black blue from black<br />
[11:41] Richardus Raymaker: that's other tick of the world. use bad contrast between back and foregorund colors<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: back in the old days a hyperlink was usually an almost a cyan blue which stood out<br />
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, u have worked on traffic sim modules yes?<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: for me the link is orange<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: well Encitra has a traffic simulator module<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its very rough<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: not something we will share<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its not very practical<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: because it reuqires its own dedicated simulator<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: outside of your models simulator<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its very wierd how it works<br />
[11:43] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im working on one at the moment, wondering if im going about it the right way<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: how ours works its 2 parts to the module<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: the traffic simulator tiself<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: and then a listener module on the model simulators<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: because our models are soo insanely huge<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: vehicles need to cross borders regularly<br />
[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: possible i used that link in the past "documented at Load Oar." but i dont see any difference at all between the link and text. only when you touch it with the mouse.<br />
[11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i havnt even considered crossing sims yet lol<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: so we have a dedicated simulator that runs the traffic simulation, and sends the data to the listener on the model simulator<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and projects the vehicles into the main simulator<br />
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: it doesnt use physics does it?<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: this way a car can drive acrosss multiple regions<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: no physics<br />
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: use a var<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: we do<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but our models consist of 15 vars<br />
[11:45] Richardus Raymaker: but that works only good up to n sims<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: these are gigantic models<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: several square miles<br />
[11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im using direct position updates and phantom cars, the update thread has to fire every 200ms to make the movment smooth<br />
[11:46] Richardus Raymaker: lrotfl nebadon. think small... that's the size of the battle star galactica<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya honestly trying to use LSL would be insane<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: you need a dedicated module<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: best to talk with Diva<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: she wrote our traffic module<br />
[11:47] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: not using LSL atall, well the cars signal when they want to go and where to, the module handles the rest<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: but ya basically the module does the same thing LSL does<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: without killing xengine<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: with 100s of timers<br />
[11:48] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: does updates every 200ms sound correct?<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: as long as it looks visually good<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: sure<br />
[11:48] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: if i try any longer the movment becomes jerky<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: right 200 sounds kind of long to me<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but if it looks ok<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: see how it looks with dozens of vehicles<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: dont just test with a single vehicle<br />
[11:49] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i had about 20 max sofar, still early days tho<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: yea you will just have to tinker until it looks right<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: maybe make the timer a configurable variable you can set in ini<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: out traffic sim has a web url<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: you can control it from<br />
[11:50] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: working on the node network, it finds the road prims and generates the nodes from their road type and position<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: it displays a very basic website with start / stop<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and some varibales<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: which is served directly from the simulator http<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so you just type like http://mysim.com:9000/trafficcontrol<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: or something<br />
[11:51] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: cool, good to know im on the right tracks lol ty<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: np<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: will you eventually share this?<br />
[11:52] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im not sure, we havnt talked about that yet<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: cool, if you do let me know Id like to check it out<br />
[11:52] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: kk<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if you want super low poly test vehicles<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: swing by Sisyphus<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: there is a lot of them<br />
[11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i have the set you uploaded, we are using them lol<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the rainbow colored ones?<br />
[11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: lil cartoon cars yep<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya those are great<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I just started using those with ours too<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: those are from blendswap<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: CC0<br />
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yep thats it, saw it in the description<br />
[11:54] OtakuMegane Desu: I'm going to head out a touch early today.<br />
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we wont use them for the final tho, abit too cartoon<br />
[11:54] OtakuMegane Desu: See you again next wek.<br />
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye andrew<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Andrew<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well Alicia<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to spend a little money<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: on some super nice mesh vehicles<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest these<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.marlinstudios.com/products/traffic/traffic.htm<br />
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: oh, men. that beeping from the other sim is still not gone<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I do not hear the beeping<br />
[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: and all objects are invisible so<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it makes me wonder if you are hearing something from Hypergrid.org still<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: didnt you say that sim exists on that grid too?<br />
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: cam to here and you hear<br />
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nice models thanks for the link<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh let me try<br />
[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: i think i gound it "Radio Green" going to derender<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its the little radio<br />
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: yup. it's the radio on the sim<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: mute it<br />
[11:58] Richardus Raymaker: https://metropolis_metav/region/Fukushima/132/132/33<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...I need to run now too...have a good week eveyrone<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: if you mute it<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: it stops making noise<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br />
[11:58] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye aine<br />
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: that's why i mute it :)<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: see you aine<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya I need to run too<br />
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: uhh derender<br />
[11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: I see it now<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: need to get a bike ride in today<br />
[11:59] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: mute it or find a hippo and ask it to sit on it lol<br />
[11:59] Richardus Raymaker: ok. bye here time too<br />
[11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys, thanks and see you next week<br />
[11:59] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye neb<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: can anyone send me the full log<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: i was like 8-9 minutes late today<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: oh or Sheera<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: can you just post it on wiki?<br />
[12:00] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: c ya everyone :)<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok see you all next week<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-07-14Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-142015-10-25T22:55:30Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[2015/07/14 11:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hello<br />
[2015/07/14 11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Neb<br />
[2015/07/14 11:05] Shez Oyen: Hiya Neb :)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: on the neighborn sim that says your banned<br />
[2015/07/14 11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: peeping Richardus?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:07] Shez Oyen: No peeping here.. just windchimes and water<br />
[2015/07/14 11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya same here<br />
[2015/07/14 11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, neb<br />
[2015/07/14 11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: possible secret invisible nuclair reactore that's going into meltdown<br />
[2015/07/14 11:08] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: don't want to ask this in public chat but....are AI and Melanie actively trying to scare MOSES off into doing their own fork and not contributing to core? It just seems like a crap-load of nit-picking which is pretty rich considering the various travesties of broken patches Melanie has dumped untested into core<br />
[2015/07/14 11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it comes from fukushima<br />
[2015/07/14 11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Pluto strikes back, maybe?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:09] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com nods<br />
[2015/07/14 11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: https://metropolis_metav/region/Fukushima/125/119/33<br />
[2015/07/14 11:09] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: I guess more to the point of not having any of their code contributions coming back<br />
[2015/07/14 11:10] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com nods<br />
[2015/07/14 11:10] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: okay<br />
[2015/07/14 11:11] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: I guess they just seem to be one of the only ones actively loooking to do any development work at all on it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:11] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: and they have expressed an interest in improving the networking side of things<br />
[2015/07/14 11:12] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: and since none of the other devs are doing anything, I guess i'd hoped that maybe MOSES would get around to solving some of these very long-standing bugs<br />
[2015/07/14 11:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: been a busy week for me<br />
[2015/07/14 11:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i havent done much testing of code<br />
[2015/07/14 11:12] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: well yeah not holding my breath<br />
[2015/07/14 11:13] Shez Oyen: I've just been doing a little terrain editing.. no problems.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:13] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: but not holding my breath for *any* dev work<br />
[2015/07/14 11:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have been uploading some free content from the web<br />
[2015/07/14 11:14] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: other than Mel's FSAssets, nothing has happened with core in 3+ weeks now<br />
[2015/07/14 11:14] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: and nothing significant since Diva tackled inventory a few months aago<br />
[2015/07/14 11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, just see that the slurl is wrong. because HG<br />
[2015/07/14 11:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[2015/07/14 11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dahlia<br />
[2015/07/14 11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've been playing with normal and specular mapping<br />
[2015/07/14 11:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea me too Aine<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] vegaslon plutonian: finally getting around to using the feature I last contributed to opensim in a non testing way<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there is an awesome app I found<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its not free though<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Crazybump<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://www.crazybump.com/<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its amazing<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: brb afk 1 sec<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Shez Oyen: Allow Residents on other parcels to see and chat with residents on this parcel won't stay ticked in the land tool... a minor annoyance<br />
[2015/07/14 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this isn't the best lighting for it but if you look at my skin you'll see that it's "wet mapped"<br />
[2015/07/14 11:16] Shez Oyen: looks like glitter a bit<br />
[2015/07/14 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes...still perfecting the methods<br />
[2015/07/14 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but getting closer to it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and so much depends on the windlight settings used to view it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:17] Robert Adams: what is necessary to complete the advanced material settings?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: whatever "hook" is necessary for for scripts to talk to it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: advanced mats are there and done<br />
[2015/07/14 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the script aspect isn't<br />
[2015/07/14 11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so at present all you can do is manually change<br />
[2015/07/14 11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: there's a problem with letting scripts modify it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it likely will not be implemented<br />
[2015/07/14 11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 whispers: oh<br />
[2015/07/14 11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well that's rather disappointing<br />
[2015/07/14 11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess whatever that issue is doesn't exist for SL's method<br />
[2015/07/14 11:19] Robert Adams: what is the problem,Dahlia?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:19] Sarah Kline: no scrio<br />
[2015/07/14 11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it has to do with the way materials are currently stored and the rate at which scripts can generate them<br />
[2015/07/14 11:19] Sarah Kline: no scripted persperation<br />
[2015/07/14 11:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: back<br />
[2015/07/14 11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so the handling of PRIM_BUMP_SHINY is utterly different?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:20] Robert Adams: so there is a griefing problem (controlling change rate) and a data structure access problem (getting to materinal info ffom script context)?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's calling viewer-side images or something?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bump and shiny are stored differently<br />
[2015/07/14 11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 suggests complaints be directed to Oren ;)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:22] Robert Adams: I still don't know what needs to be changed<br />
[2015/07/14 11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how are the manually-set materials stored? as part of a blob?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume it's only storing UUID and settings values, not generating a new map each time<br />
[2015/07/14 11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: When I first did materials, I used dynamic attributes to store them. Oren changed it to make them assets<br />
[2015/07/14 11:24] mattie mcbride gave you Note to Nebs from Mattie McBride.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:25] mattie mcbride gave you NPC Animate - NEBS.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: all the LSL really does is change the UUID right?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but what your saying is that UUID is stored in a asset?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:27] IM: Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net: We had a big discussion about this on the core mailing list. Its a security issue<br />
[2015/07/14 11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, material texture = asset. but.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I wish we had more control over the Normal<br />
[2015/07/14 11:29] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: does anyone know what the Texture blending stuff is on the Diffuse texture tab?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:29] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev a7543a3: 2015-07-13 19:04:45 +0200 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:29] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there is an Alpha Mode drop down<br />
[2015/07/14 11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that determines how th alpha channel is handles<br />
[2015/07/14 11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea that is what I figured, I have kind of tinkered with it a bit, but I never really see much difference between them<br />
[2015/07/14 11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: heh<br />
[2015/07/14 11:30] vegaslon plutonian: blending means there is diffrent amounts of alpha in it, while masking means it is alpha or it is not<br />
[2015/07/14 11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the biggest difference is easy to see<br />
[2015/07/14 11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: upload a png that is completely opaque but has an alpha channel<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the put another prim/surface over it that has some level of alpha<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it will glitch<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: right<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ordering bugs<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then turn off the alpha of the underneath layer and it stops glitching<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have noticed that, that was one reason I was asking<br />
[2015/07/14 11:31] vegaslon plutonian: masking does not have that problem becouse it is not trying to mix the alphas together it is black and white so it knows exactly which is infront of the other<br />
[2015/07/14 11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mostly if you have a texture with some alpha to it you want it in alpha blending mode<br />
[2015/07/14 11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I forget what the third setting does<br />
[2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I did notice on my trees that using masking with like 128<br />
[2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: they looked a lot better<br />
[2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: didnt get those wierd ordering artifacts when caming around<br />
[2015/07/14 11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: sometimes the edges look wierd though<br />
[2015/07/14 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't played with it extensively yet for anything other than simple mode-swtiching<br />
[2015/07/14 11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: have to mess with that number quite a bit<br />
[2015/07/14 11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: guess it helps to have really clean textures<br />
[2015/07/14 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would be really useful for scritped effects but you can's change it with scrips<br />
[2015/07/14 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *can't<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I am also wondering<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in SL you can which I believe is how some of those really high quality water effects are being achieved<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: like on water slides<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: do you have to set both Specular and Normal for it to work<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and riggers<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *rivers<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: seems like if I only set normal I cant notice much change<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and waterfalls<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: seems like the 2 are heavily reliant on each other<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a lot of it depends on your windlight too<br />
[2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Normal and Specular<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since those are only affecting point source lights<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: you can still animage materials via scripts<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya I normally use a prim like to test it mostly<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if your windlight has ambient cranked up it will wipe it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *animate<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no you can't<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea animation does seem to work<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh....animation you can, yes<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but not changes to it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they should track standard texture animation<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i did some flowing water<br />
[2015/07/14 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that looked very good<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the normal and specular maps to move along with the texture when you use texture animation<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *do<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: could we come up with OSSL that lets us to temporary changes?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but you can't change them other than via manual edit<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that dont get stored<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: only visible while simulation is running<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: region restarts it goes back to the original?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that would be extremely useful still<br />
[2015/07/14 11:37] vegaslon plutonian: like what we have for dynamic textures?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and avoid the asset bloat<br />
[2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: whatever mechanism is used for point light controls ought to work much the same way I would think<br />
[2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: have OSSL to manipulate this stuff but in a way tha wont generate any asset bloat<br />
[2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it only modifies the running scene or something<br />
[2015/07/14 11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: just a thought<br />
[2015/07/14 11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org whispers: :)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:39] vegaslon plutonian: besides what would make creating a new material assets be much diffrent then creating new notecards?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm not motivated to take the time to kludge up a solution like that. Maybe someone else is.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:39] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I was mostly curious if i was even possible<br />
[2015/07/14 11:39] Robert Adams: that is a possible bandaid to the current implementation... would make it different than SL, though<br />
[2015/07/14 11:39] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: more than asking anyone to do it :)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'd rather see someone who made them assets change them back to dynamic attributes<br />
[2015/07/14 11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we have already declared that being different from SL is a good thing<br />
[2015/07/14 11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and have a migration plan<br />
[2015/07/14 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it seems like they're sstill being stored in the table as dynamic attributes<br />
[2015/07/14 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or in .prims table it is<br />
[2015/07/14 11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no, that's legacy code<br />
[2015/07/14 11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm<br />
[2015/07/14 11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so dahlia your saying if we went back to old code you did<br />
[2015/07/14 11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it would be safe?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: strange that my region would have created and populated and continues to update that column then since it was created after that change<br />
[2015/07/14 11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I was assuming you were saying there was no safe way we could do it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:41] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think there was some other bug in that code, but the storage method would be better<br />
[2015/07/14 11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok<br />
[2015/07/14 11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: my suggestion was based on thinking there was no other solution<br />
[2015/07/14 11:42] Robert Adams: are the dynamic attributes persistant?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:42] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but then you have a migration that needs to happen<br />
[2015/07/14 11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back. I was here before anyone else, switched workspaces while waiting for people to show up and that must have crashed the viewer as it wasn't running when I remembered I was supposed to be her for this meeting.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what was Oren't reason for changing it in the first place?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:42] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Robert, yes they persist<br />
[2015/07/14 11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Also, Aurora and Whitecore dont have dynamic attributes<br />
[2015/07/14 11:43] IM: Andrew Hellershanks: What have I missed?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:43] Robert Adams: then it's a configuration switch and let Oren keep up the 'legacy' way ;-)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:43] IM: Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[2015/07/14 11:44] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: It's a huge problem but until it's addressed, a single rogue script could shut down an entire grid's asset service<br />
[2015/07/14 11:44] Notecard saved<br />
[2015/07/14 11:44] Shez Oyen: ouch<br />
[2015/07/14 11:44] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: therefore the script method won't be implemented by me<br />
[2015/07/14 11:44] Andrew Hellershanks received your inventory offer.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:44] IM: Andrew Hellershanks: ty<br />
[2015/07/14 11:46] Robert Adams: I might look into this this weekend... I'll see what's needed<br />
[2015/07/14 11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice<br />
[2015/07/14 11:46] IM: Andrew Hellershanks: Seems I didn't miss much<br />
[2015/07/14 11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that would, indeed, be very nice<br />
[2015/07/14 11:46] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: have fun :) I'm on IRC if you need help with how it works<br />
[2015/07/14 11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can think of a ton of applications for it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 11:47] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: vehicle damage for one<br />
[2015/07/14 11:47] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: well any kind of damage really<br />
[2015/07/14 11:47] vegaslon plutonian: lol make your tires wear out<br />
[2015/07/14 11:47] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hehe ya<br />
[2015/07/14 11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lost of potential for dynamic environment effects as well<br />
[2015/07/14 11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Dynamic is good<br />
[2015/07/14 11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *lots<br />
[2015/07/14 11:48] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de: Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ -.- guten Morgen -.- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ<br />
[2015/07/14 11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and of course in mesh wearables a vast array of possibilities<br />
[2015/07/14 11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: particularly to cut down on the necessiry tocary around huge inventories<br />
[2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea there are some really cool avatar systems in SL now<br />
[2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: where you dont even get avatar parts in your inventory anymore<br />
[2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its just a hud<br />
[2015/07/14 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[2015/07/14 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: same with clothing<br />
[2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you can change all kinds of stuff<br />
[2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya clothes, hair everything<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's been a real explosion of it in the alst 6 months as people have gotten a handle on how it all works<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Im not sure how that works with hypergrid and assets<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you would have the textures in the mesh's inventory<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea me either, I imagine though<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but doing it on wearables may be impractical with materials being assets<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you had everything in your suitcase would be ok<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you put the asset into the mesh's inventory<br />
[2015/07/14 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then call it by name<br />
[2015/07/14 11:51] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no, the asset is dynamically created<br />
[2015/07/14 11:51] vegaslon plutonian: does dynamic atributes work over HG?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:51] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they did when I first coded it that way<br />
[2015/07/14 11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when you apply a normal map to something it creates a new texture?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:52] Robert Adams: would them being assets be for HGing?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it creates a new asset<br />
[2015/07/14 11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: basically its like a mini database asset that gets created?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its more like a notecard than texture right?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: change *anything* on a material and a new asset is created<br />
[2015/07/14 11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *ANYTHING*<br />
[2015/07/14 11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: wow<br />
[2015/07/14 11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is that because of something to do with XBake?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no<br />
[2015/07/14 11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's stupid.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it just seems....rather an odd way to handle it<br />
[2015/07/14 11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: so parameters are not stored in the same asset<br />
[2015/07/14 11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: More assets table bloat<br />
[2015/07/14 11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: After I implemented materials, Oren changed them to be assets. I suggest you talk with him about it.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sound smore that when you change a parameter a new asset is created<br />
[2015/07/14 11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *anything*<br />
[2015/07/14 11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: was there any reason *why* he changed it?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ask Oren :)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Well no point in looking back honestly<br />
[2015/07/14 11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
[2015/07/14 11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Maybe something about them being assets was easier to work with at the time.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lets see what Robert finds<br />
[2015/07/14 11:56] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they worked fine as attributes<br />
[2015/07/14 11:56] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and attributes was more consistent with how any other texture parameter is stored<br />
[2015/07/14 11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: honestly at this point my own personal opinion I honestly wouldnt even care if I had to fix everything I was using materials on<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I havent used it that widespread yet<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: others have<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: thats just my own opinion though<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe.. not like the change to sit position. :)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Robert Adams: and I want content creators to be happy<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i would never try to force that onto anyone<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: heh<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and I dont want to break all that content and deal with the flak on social media<br />
[2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: maybe someone else does :)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: always best to avoid it if we can<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Robert Adams: I don't mind flak<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: True. But, if we leave things as is an try to kludge along, what will the eventual result befor those same creators? Or new ones?<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya I dont mind it too much either as long as its justified<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Same her<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] vegaslon plutonian: got to have thick skin when you keep breaking peoples vehicles<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: e<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I fully admit I was the one who convinced justin to break the sit stuff twice<br />
[2015/07/14 11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: people are fine with saying go ahead and break compatibility until it's their stuff that breaks<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: haha ya<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] Robert Adams: but, if I did it, I'd make it a config parameter, default to dyn attributes, and add some way of old asset to change into new dyn attrib<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: realitiy is a bitch<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes you have to break something if it fixes a bug or makes something better rather than getting stuck with something forever because it would break some peoples items.<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] Robert Adams: but there may be reasons that cant' be done.... I'll have to look<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Robert, there are inventory, transfer, and hypergrid issues to consider<br />
[2015/07/14 11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: People will complain regardless but most will ultimately just deal with it after venting if there was a good/beneficial reason for the change.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: The longer you live with the problem the worse things become when you want to fix it.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:00] OtakuMegane Desu: ^ Also that<br />
[2015/07/14 12:00] vegaslon plutonian: I think he changed to assets becouse they was not being saved in oars<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] Connected<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net: the current code should be able to read either storage method, assuming it hasn't changed since the last time I looked at it<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] OtakuMegane Desu: Opensim is still in an early enough stage things can be broken or changed if it's necessary and the world will not implode. Few years down the road and we're pretty much stuck.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but it only writes assets<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: crashed!<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...<br />
[2015/07/14 12:01] Connected<br />
[2015/07/14 12:02] Robert Adams: if the dyn attribs are serialized with the SOG, they should go into oars<br />
[2015/07/14 12:02] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[2015/07/14 12:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: cool I was asking same thing about oars as I crashed<br />
[2015/07/14 12:03] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Robert, yes the attribute method worked with oars and iars also<br />
[2015/07/14 12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Robert if you need some objects or material textures to test with let me know<br />
[2015/07/14 12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: afk<br />
[2015/07/14 12:04] Robert Adams: thanks Neb, I will do that<br />
[2015/07/14 12:05] Robert Adams: I also friended Aine hoping for some testing help ;-)<br />
[2015/07/14 12:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice :)<br />
[2015/07/14 12:06] Robert Adams: Hey Cute! Timezone problems?<br />
[2015/07/14 12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any time<br />
[2015/07/14 12:06] Cuteulala Artis: *hi<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: not sure if i mentioned it last week but figured out cool way to use Shwrinkwrap modifier in blender<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_001.png<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_002.png<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_003.png<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_004.png<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_005.png<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: painting strips onto a parking lot<br />
[2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: a very not flat parking lot<br />
[2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: picture # 5 really highlights how not flat it is<br />
[2015/07/14 12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe<br />
[2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I tried doing it with prims<br />
[2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: would have taken like 8 hours<br />
[2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[2015/07/14 12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, shrinkwrap would have made that child's play<br />
[2015/07/14 12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea was like 30 minutes to do entire parking lot<br />
[2015/07/14 12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: vs like an hour for 2 rows<br />
[2015/07/14 12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[2015/07/14 12:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: shrinkwrap is good tool<br />
[2015/07/14 12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice to be finally able to texture things better in blender directly<br />
[2015/07/14 12:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: some of the texture painting stuff in blender is pretty nice<br />
[2015/07/14 12:11] Cuteulala Artis: what the hell happen to the sim lololol<br />
[2015/07/14 12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's also live-link between Blender and PS or between Blender and Gimp<br />
[2015/07/14 12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: looks ok to me Cuteulala<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is really, really handy<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to remember stuf I forgot about blender after I hadn't used it in ages. I haven't gotten to texturing anything yet.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: A link between GIMP and Blender? How??<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you can just keep both up and switch back and forth as needed<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: in blender there is a video editor tool called OpenShot<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that hooks directly to blender<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it opens the file in both and "shares" it<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you can use blender to render 3D titles and stuff<br />
[2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with frequent updates<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so any change made in one is reflected in the other<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is great<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, I'd be interested in knowing how to do that.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you can do all your cloning using PS's toolds<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then do coarser stuff in Blender<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I use GIMP for editing<br />
[2015/07/14 12:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Andrew, blender probably just polls the file for changes<br />
[2015/07/14 12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://www.blendernation.com/2012/09/18/blender-gimp-autorefresh/<br />
[2015/07/14 12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, using a link to an image file instead of importing the image directly in to Blender. hm... yea, I could check on how that works.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's a free version of it too somewhere though<br />
[2015/07/14 12:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you could probably do this without an addon<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: the addon probably just makes it a little easier<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, it is a commercial addon. :P<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it really depends on how you have your textures stored in the project in blender<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's probably just running a pair of scripts<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you just need to set hard paths to your textures<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and not embed them directly into the .blend file<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: right<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Here: https://sites.google.com/site/pointatstuffweb/external-paint-autorefresh<br />
[2015/07/14 12:15] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: gotta go, bye all :)<br />
[2015/07/14 12:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: see you Dahlia<br />
[2015/07/14 12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Dahlia<br />
[2015/07/14 12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia<br />
[2015/07/14 12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. after 12 already<br />
[2015/07/14 12:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea flew by today :)<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Robert Adams: I'm running also... see you all later<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: so everybody still here<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I recently updated my Blender to the 2.75a version that came out about awek ago.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: s/awek/a week/<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 12.75 a ?<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: im still on 2.74<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, checking<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i'll give 2.75 a shot soon<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm on 2.75 now<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, 2.75 came out on the 1st and the a version on the 87th<br />
[2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: 8th<br />
[2015/07/14 12:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, thx. still running 2.75<br />
[2015/07/14 12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I've enabled a few additional plug-ins based on some videos I saw and added a couple that I had to download.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Two videos on the top 10 addons for Blender<br />
[2015/07/14 12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I also ran acros a video for Blender on how to make minions. :D<br />
[2015/07/14 12:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya that was a good one<br />
[2015/07/14 12:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there are tons of great blender tutorials on youtube and cgcookie<br />
[2015/07/14 12:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but even with good tutorials it takes a lot of time and practice<br />
[2015/07/14 12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[2015/07/14 12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: constant use more than anything else<br />
[2015/07/14 12:21] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[2015/07/14 12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:21] vegaslon plutonian: been working on this dragon lately, learning alot about animation in blender https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p_VAdfCcns<br />
[2015/07/14 12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I forget how to snap points in relation to the grid and moving the 3d cursor to a point so I could rotate curves to create an object<br />
[2015/07/14 12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that is awesome vegaslon<br />
[2015/07/14 12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have a big dragon like that in SL<br />
[2015/07/14 12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: best way i have found in blender to rotate<br />
[2015/07/14 12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you hit the "r" key<br />
[2015/07/14 12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I've done it before and its simple (if one remembers how)<br />
[2015/07/14 12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: then whatever axis so say you want to rotate on X axis<br />
[2015/07/14 12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you type > r > x > 180<br />
[2015/07/14 12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's also key to make sure you have selected the right pivot point :p<br />
[2015/07/14 12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: No need to move the 3D cursor?<br />
[2015/07/14 12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it depends what you're doing<br />
[2015/07/14 12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and in what mode<br />
[2015/07/14 12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: it used to be that you grabbe the two points on the vertical axis then did a rotate with the 3D cursor at one of the two points on the axis.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but you'll want to be familiar with your pivot point options because they're *very* very hand<br />
[2015/07/14 12:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *handy<br />
[2015/07/14 12:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you want to snap to a certain point I am not really sure a great way to do that other than to just modify the number<br />
[2015/07/14 12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I was rotating a dxf imported curve<br />
[2015/07/14 12:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok. bye all.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I unfortuately need to run for a bit too<br />
[2015/07/14 12:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i'll be back on IRC in about an hour though<br />
[2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a way to snap things in relation to ther points but I forget how. I'l have to look up the video on making an i-beam that uses that technique<br />
[2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I should be going to.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Andrew I suggest google for Blender Shortcut Cheatsheet<br />
[2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: my typing is going to pot cause something is loading down my machine.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://gryllus.net/Blender/Syllabus/Blender%20Hotkeys%20Cheatsheet.pdf<br />
[2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, I have one but it is buried on my desk under other papers.<br />
[2015/07/14 12:27] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok well thanks guys good talking, same time next week :)<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-07-07Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-072015-10-25T22:54:53Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
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<div><pre><br />
[10:56] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[10:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Neb<br />
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: I am finally starting to get a good grid on texturing in blender<br />
[10:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe...yeah, takes a while<br />
[10:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you're using Cycles for it?<br />
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: nah<br />
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: im not baking anything yet<br />
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: just standard texture on faces type of stuff<br />
[10:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[10:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (10.51 m).<br />
[10:58] Jak Daniels kommt in Chat-Reichweite (6.13 m).<br />
[10:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for the most part these days I assign materials and map for seamless textures<br />
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: see these<br />
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: 1 prim each<br />
[10:58] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.36 m).<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, that''s ideal sort fo thing<br />
[10:59] Shez Oyen kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.15 m).<br />
[10:59] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hello everyone<br />
[10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hello<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Alicia<br />
[10:59] Jak Daniels: hi all<br />
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: has materials too<br />
[10:59] Lucy Afarensis kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.58 m).<br />
[10:59] OtakuMegane Desu kommt in Chat-Reichweite (9.69 m).<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ues, I'd make custom normal maps for all of it<br />
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks kommt in Chat-Reichweite (14.70 m).<br />
[11:00] Lucy Afarensis kommt in Chat-Reichweite (16.90 m).<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then you get much better illusion of model quality<br />
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice to mention the osgrid wide meeting but I don't see the notice until after the fact. :P<br />
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Does osgrid not forward group notices to email?<br />
[11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what's the poly count of the building, Neb....200-ish?<br />
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: I am hardly a texturing master in blender now but its nice to feel like I understand it a bit<br />
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: these are a bit higher<br />
[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: nice pair of buildings<br />
[11:02] Master Dubrovna kommt in Chat-Reichweite (14.34 m).<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i need to reduce the count on the roof exhaust pipes a bit<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's still excellent<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya I can probably get it down to like 500<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: I was more focusing on textures<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: than poly counts<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: consider how many prims it would take to make one<br />
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks wishes he had more time to use Blender<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: 500 polys is like 12 cubes<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: blender is nice, but not with OS or SL<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: no qIR<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wait<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: less than that<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, I missed the exhaust pipes....they'd be the ones racking up the count<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: a cube is 96 polygons I think<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: a prim cube<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: Id have to check again<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: a standard prim cube is 108 triangles 96 vertices<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: rofl<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: because you can torture them<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: they have to be subdivived a lot<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:04] OtakuMegane Desu: So does it always have that many or does it add as you torture the prim?<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it always has that many<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: all prim objects are fixed poly count<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: a torus is even worse<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, and spheres aren't very nice either<br />
[11:05] OtakuMegane Desu: That seems...dumb. I can understand there's a reason, but still.<br />
[11:06] Lani Global kommt in Chat-Reichweite (15.61 m).<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: a single prim torus<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: almost every time it's far more efficient to model them in Blender<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: is 1146 triangles and 625 vertices<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: thats more than thhis house<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I did an entire 8-room cottage with ornate railing in under 30k tri<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: anyone wants a copy of my 1 prim houses on table feel free to grab<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: the textures I used are inside<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's interior, exterior, railing, deck, windows, doors....everything<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: I am learning how to texture in blender<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if I'd gone with a less fancy railing I could have chopped that down to under 8k<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: good luck with that. :O still messing with it, but i have progress<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I found a pretty sweet script for blender<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: to make railings<br />
[11:08] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.25 m).<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I just make a single post, then fun with arrays<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: often nested ones<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: http://blenderaddonlist.blogspot.com/2015/01/addon-quick-pipe.html<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty sweet how it works<br />
[11:08] Robert Adams: hello all<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: There are a lot of nice scripts for Blender to automate some object creation<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: hello Robert<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBNbwyOwesE&feature=youtu.be<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Robert<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: basically how it works<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: you select a bunch of edges on a object in blender<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: then go into the blender script tool<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and run that script<br />
[11:09] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev f4dfdbb: 2015-06-28 13:52:45 -0400 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and it turns all the edges into tubes<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: as soon as you run the script you move your mose to determine the diameter of the tube<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: then roller mouse determines how many sections that tube has<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it essentially is separating those verts, converting to curve, then making 3D curve, then converting back to mesh and adding it back to the original<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: very nice if you have long flowing paths<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: you can just grab an edg of the entire path<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: extrude it up<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.45 m).<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: select all the edges you want as railing and run script<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: insta-railing<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do that to make hems and lace edging for clothing<br />
[11:11] Lani Global: is there a current default allowed-to-public ossl script function list?<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its in /bin/config-include Lani<br />
[11:11] Lani Global: thanks<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. That pipe script is awesome.<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it all depends how the region is set up of course<br />
[11:12] Robert Adams: it is in bin/config-include/osslEnable.ini I think<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=opensim&h=ebb7b848259538550a4843be8fc815a868383471&hb=f4dfdbb9142307f1d7f3a37aafe10c40a94c8ded&f=bin/config-include/osslEnable.ini<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea the reason I found the pipe script<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: is I am making a new Physical Roller coaster ride<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: where a torus rides over a tube<br />
[11:12] Robert Adams: osslEnable.ini is included by default in OpenSim.ini.example....<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @RObert: if you're going to tackle the scripted advanced mats you might be digging in the same code to fix http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7293<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I am redoing Cutelalas Torus Coaster in mesh<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and so far its pretty sweet<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: the torus rides over the mesh perfectly<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's asking for physics trouble ned :O<br />
[11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Something like a physical coaster would be awesome to see<br />
[11:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.99 m).<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: actually it works awesome<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: im about 50% complete<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I've tried contacting Cuteulala last few times I've seen her in world but I don't get any response from her.<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I will let you all know when its done<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, Definitely like to see that, nebadon<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: we have a working prim version at Sisyphus<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: but the track is like 1000s of cubes<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and the torus rides over the cubes<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the new version is going to be a single mesh tube<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: highly optimized<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: nice<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its the size of an entire 256m2 region almost<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its like 240x240m<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: has loops and stuff<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: pretty sweet<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. That's a lot bigger than the old one that was out<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: barf bags under each seat?<br />
[11:16] Teh MehKz kommt in Chat-Reichweite (17.94 m).<br />
[11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Does the torus keep a steady position over the mesh or does it wobble a bit as it goes?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: the one at Sisyphus has always been that large<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I am using the prims as the template<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: im basically retracing the entire track from scratch<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Was it? It didn't seem like it took up that much of the region it was in<br />
[11:16] Robert Adams: Nebadon... I've had good luck with mesh-to-mesh collisions if you reduce the weight of the objects (reducing density or whatever)<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: well Sisyphus is big<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Var<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, ok<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: 1536x1536<br />
[11:16] Lani Global: by the way, for those interested: OSgrid had an open meeting on 5 July and announced Non-Profit Corporation status approval and it is now Tax Deductable / Tax Exempt in USA. here's a link to the chat log and some photos http://forums.osgrid.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5495<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya thanks Lani :)<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Lani, check the date<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, had.<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yea was couple days ago :)<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: we finally got full 501c3 status for OSgrid now<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't quite catch the "had" and was thinking "has" as I got the group notice about it when I logged in today.<br />
[11:18] Lani Global: for those asking about tax status in other countries... that does not apply to anywhere except USA.<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: on Opensim stuff....we've been noticing a rather concerning escalation of the memory and thread counts of a region that don't seem to be released<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have noticed it at some regions too Aine<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: so far I cant explain it<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: when you have multiple visitors arriving you'd expect that, but when they leave again those resources should be released<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and they aren't<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: on some of the regions going to a slightly older version of mono made a big difference<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, darn it. The cat is calling for me again. :P<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Seth has been charting it for my Hedonism region now for a while<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: its strange for me because I am not seeing it across the board<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: it seems like more heavily traveled simulators get it the worst<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't notice it nearly as much in my .NET-hosted regions but there is an increase happening there as well<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Scripted gadgets, or avatar attachment data not getting released?<br />
[11:20] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: does using "force gc" help at all?<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: well under mono<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: with AppDomainLoading = false<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: it is going to leak memory but thats not new<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab *sighs<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the thread counts keep on climbing and climbing<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: plus memory use<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but ya I agree it seems like things have worsened lately in some regions<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: other regions I have run great<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: only way to free either is restart the simulator<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: its very strange<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: restarting the region isn't sufficient<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: leads me to beleive it has something to do with avatars visiting<br />
[11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: would probably need to bisect to find where it happened<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it appears to be a much bigger hit with HG visitors<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: yes, that is a long process though<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: the bisect<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: because it takes sometimes 24 hours<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: for the memory creep<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes 48+ for me<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: we believe it stated as of Diva's inventory fixes<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *started<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya anything is possible<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: something to do with the change in the fetch mechanism<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: best to not assume though either<br />
[11:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I have no creep on my grid but I get very few visitors<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or at least that's the same timeframe that it first started to happen<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a single avi arriving can add up to 500MB to the memory use<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: yea I cant tell you how many times a bisect has proven me wrong<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and that is never released<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: if you can bisect and find an actual version<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that would be huge<br />
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only see some weirdness on 0.8.1 that cpu usage on windows start to creep up soemtimes. restart only helps<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: give me 10-12 months to do it since I can only test it in a meaningful way every Sunday<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if I can get it in less than 50 steps maybe sometime next year I can tell you<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: well<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if its as recent as divas<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it would be 50 steps<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hopefully not<br />
[11:25] Robert Adams: another place to look is the HTTP server (if it is inventory stuff)<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I beleive its something with threading<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: wouldnt surprise me if divas fixes are releated<br />
[11:26] Robert Adams: I have seen problems with it not recovering well from timeouts... and could cause hangups with HG guests making inventory requests<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: her stuff likely increases thread use a bit<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats what we saw couple weeks ago Robert<br />
[11:26] Sarah Kline kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.98 m).<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: when your inventory was freaking out the sim here I think<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's the threads not being released again<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I can definitely say that newer mono makes it worse<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: what version of mono Aine?<br />
[11:27] Robert Adams: all inventory should be moved off the server anyway... but that's a different project<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would have to check with Seth to be 100% sure but I believe he has Hedonism on 3.4.7<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I know for sure it's 3.somthing<br />
[11:27] Master Dubrovna: Was the automatic region backup feature ever implemented in opensim?<br />
[11:27] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I use it<br />
[11:28] Master Dubrovna: oh ok<br />
[11:28] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: fixed up the autobackup awhile ago, it works ok<br />
[11:28] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it makes an oar every day or so<br />
[11:28] Master Dubrovna: I want to use it but thought I would check first<br />
[11:28] Master Dubrovna: That is what I want Dahlia<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: 3.4.7 would be a wierd version of mono<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: that could be part of your problem<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's not a mono-only issue, Neb...I see it to a lesser degree under .NET too<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: oh I agree<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i have just found certain versions of mono make it worse<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I may be completely wrong on that, Neb....that's just from memory<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I know for sure it's 3.x<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza on mono 4.0.1 was using like 8gb memory<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: after 48 hours<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: switch to 3.12.1 and its fine again<br />
[11:30] Lani Global: Are there any objections here to moving the OSSL functions: [osGetGridName] [osGetGridNick] to the "ThreatLevel=None" category?<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but I have some of my own personal heaviest regions running on mon 4.0.1 fine<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the big difference is my own regions dont get a lot of visitors<br />
[11:30] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: refuge uses 3.2.8 i think aine<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: Lani that is a question best asked on the mailin glist<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: mailing list*<br />
[11:31] Lani Global: yeah, i will ask there also<br />
[11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: I see no reason not to move them.<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<br />
[11:31] Lani Global: trying to get a straw poll here on it<br />
[11:31] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I use 3.99.0 and no problems<br />
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Lani, what is their current threat level?<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: yea I use 4.0.1 just fine too<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: works great on my personal regions<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but here on Wright Plaza its just terrible<br />
[11:32] Lani Global: they are currently ThreatLevel Moderate<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: this region is crazy extreme<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: with tons of visitors<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: 100s per day<br />
[11:32] Lani Global: with all the HyperGrid use these days, it would be great for scripted wearables to know which grid they are in<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: scripted wearables need a lot of love<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: we need to do what justin had suggested<br />
[11:33] Lani Global: the grid name is available in every viewer already<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: script state is a complete bugger when you HG and unwear anything scripted<br />
[11:33] Robert Adams: Lani: you just want them enabled all the time no matter what other enablements are made?<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: instead of putting avatar scripted attachments into the main Script App Domain<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: very easy to end up with a corrupted opbject that will no longer rez at all<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: each avatar should get their own AppDomain for their scripts<br />
[11:33] Lani Global: yes, Robert<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: that gets shut down when they leave the simulator<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: as of right now with AppDomainLoading = False for mono users<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: everytime a avatar wearing scripts enters the region<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: they get loaded into the app domain and can never be unloaded<br />
[11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: The only theoretical "threat" I can think of is HG into a closed grid that doesn't want it's name exposed for some reason. But then, why allow HG if it's that closed? :P<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: leading to memory / thread loss over time<br />
[11:34] Robert Adams: I see no reason why not<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: eventually the balloon gets so big it cant function<br />
[11:34] Lani Global: well, as i said, the Grid Name is available in EVERY viewer menu<br />
[11:35] Robert Adams: someone was worried about griefer scripts knowing weaknesses if they can get that info easily... but I don't think it is a problem<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Neb and the interesting thing is the scripts get loaded even if the sim is set to disallow scripts<br />
[11:35] Robert Adams: I second the motion to make them threat level none<br />
[11:35] Jak Daniels: +1<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: +1<br />
[11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: +1<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Lani, does seem a bit high a threat level. I've raised questions about that sort of thing in the past. It can depend sometimes on what the code does to get some information rather than on the info itself.<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: while we're at it, can you move osMessageAttachments to VeryLow too?<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, grids betetr keep uptodate<br />
[11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i was saying w couple of weeks ago its weird that they have a threat level<br />
[11:36] Lani Global: for example, in Singularity Viewer... At the top menu "Help" pulldown, "About Singularity Viewer" in the Info Tab, you will see "Grid: OSGrid" if you check here.<br />
[11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: If a griefer (or script) relies on a weakness all it has to do is test for it. Hiding specific info makes them need an extra step but in the end it really doesn't work. Security through obscurity just doesn't.<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't think of any method that messaging an attachment can be abused since the attachment has to have a dataserver event ot respond to it, and anyone writing that would put in some sort of check to make sure it should pay attention to a message<br />
[11:37] Robert Adams: I agree, Otaku<br />
[11:37] Robert Adams: I'll change it this evening<br />
[11:38] Lani Global: well, if specific grid owners want to remove such things, then they can set them to ESTATE_MANAGER,ESTATE_OWNER<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Lani, if those calls just return variables and don't do anything fancy to get the info I'd be ok with the change.<br />
[11:38] Lani Global: there are so many hypergrid users now, that we need to start thinking about that being the new normal.<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and Aine yes<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: scripts always get loaded into the simulator<br />
[11:38] Robert Adams: the change will make them available by default.... anyone who cares, can easily turn them off<br />
[11:38] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: get grid name only reads from the config and returns grid name<br />
[11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the grid Singu reports seems to be the login grid? It doesn't say OSGrid for me right now<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: disabling scripts only prevents script from running<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for that matter, ditto for osMessageObject (which is currently Low)<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: not from being compiled<br />
[11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: maybe it's just using the grid manager data<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: scripts will always get compiled and loaded to memory no matter what<br />
[11:39] Lani Global: you may be right, Dahlia<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it tells the login grid<br />
[11:39] Robert Adams: it would be nice to have a new script engine<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi flüstert: indeed it would Robert :)<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: You are at 2560146.8, 2560137.9, 32.5 in Wright Plaza (10000, 10000) located at plaza08.osgrid.org (74.63.198.138:9000)<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats in help too<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Mel would probably say why they were at the moderat threat level.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: brb afk a minute<br />
[11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: It would be nice to have a new scenegraph and a new script engine :)<br />
[11:40] Lani Global: it does show the region server domain<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if I can ever get some other projects off my todo list I'd like to work on some of the script compilation issues.<br />
[11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: a scenegraph that isn't so prim/linkset oriented<br />
[11:41] Robert Adams: Maybe start with seeing what was done in some ofthe OpenSim forks? Like what Rev did in Aurora?<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you pointing to new tech fahlia ?<br />
[11:41] Robert Adams: I think the whole AppDomain thing is overkill<br />
[11:41] Lani Global: the old LSL function llGetEnv had a "grid" discovery but it was just a low integer number<br />
[11:41] Hans Nerido kommt in Chat-Reichweite (5.49 m).<br />
[11:42] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Richardus, no, just wishfull thinking... I realize it's probably more work than just writing a new simulator<br />
[11:42] Hans Nerido: good evening all<br />
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. I just remembered I need to turn off some data logging<br />
[11:43] Robert Adams: I'd like to break the simulator up (al la DSG) but it would probably not be totally SL compatible<br />
[11:43] Robert Adams: but that might not be as important by next year<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's kind of the stumbling block for a lot of stuff, I assume....the need to remain fully compatible with TPVs<br />
[11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'd like to see a generic hierarchical scenegraph and have all the SL compatibility moved into modules<br />
[11:43] Robert Adams: the other thing I thought of was allowing a 'load oar' into HiFi :-O<br />
[11:44] Lani Global: good feature, Robert!<br />
[11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bice flexible dahlia<br />
[11:44] Robert Adams: but then, they are making the same viewer mistake as was done for SL -- a gigantic, monlithic monster viewer<br />
[11:44] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: convert oar sounds better<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks is back<br />
[11:45] Lani Global: did anyone hear the rumour that the next SL 2.0 was using some stuff they learned from OpenSim code?<br />
[11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: I'm sure opinions still vary but as far as I'm concerned, if you can make stuff better and it works or can be added to the viewer, hell with SL compatibility.<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No Lani<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the dont talk much about sl2<br />
[11:45] Lani Global: there's probably no way to confirm or deny it.<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: back<br />
[11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: Most of what you hear about SL2 at this point is probably a rumor. Very little is known about it.<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I doubt anything from opensim is showing up in SL2<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: there would be no point<br />
[11:47] Lani Global: just a rumour.<br />
[11:47] Zac.Straya @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.48 m).<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya<br />
[11:47] Zac.Straya @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.25 m).<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: to be honest I am not even sure its going to be anything like SL 1.0<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: it likely wont<br />
[11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: It probably won't be.<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: technical i dont hope so. it would be useless<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it will even be called Second Life or any any assocation really to second life<br />
[11:48] Lani Global: i've heard the working name is something like "Samsar"<br />
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: pretty sure. i think the mabye keep using sansar as name. dont call it sl2<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there is a very good chance its going to flop<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they need to make it more commercially viable to appeal to larger businesses<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: Samsar is just the dev name<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Third Existance?<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I suspect that the generic "user" will be more of a customer for their real clients<br />
[11:48] Lani Global: with a name like "Samsar" that conjures up the possibility that it is being developed in Hyderabad.<br />
[11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: SL "1.0" was sort of a nerd/techy playground thing. LL is in it for the monies now.<br />
[11:49] Jak Daniels: Second Try maybe ;)<br />
[11:49] Lani Global: Second Fiddle.<br />
[11:49] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont know much about it, but all I've heard sounds a lot like that one company that flopped that was using CryEngine<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: LL's track record leaves me little hope it will be a success<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: the people running SL now are just not the same people who created SL<br />
[11:49] Robert Adams: one big problem with SL was that it couldn't scale -- broke at 100K users and never could get above that<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: the people running SL right now don't seem to get it<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: It will start out well and go down hill from there<br />
[11:50] Robert Adams: for the Internet, scaling is important<br />
[11:50] Sarah Kline: I dont wish bad for what they do<br />
[11:50] Lani Global: LL had some good mojo magic with SL originally.<br />
[11:50] OtakuMegane Desu: If SL2 is a success, chances are a lot of us won't really be on it. I haven't seen much added to SLin recent years that I had a use for or was impressed by.<br />
[11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya scaling may have been a personnel problem also tho<br />
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: another problem from SL and OS is the camera angle and wqrong sized building and not default 1st person mode<br />
[11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I heard the culture there was pretty lax<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Lani, yea, and a good set of company philosophies. I remember their display at SL5B<br />
[11:50] Robert Adams: it is sad watching SL slowly whither<br />
[11:51] Lani Global: Well, really, it is somewhat a sign of the times.<br />
[11:51] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I still maintain premium accounts<br />
[11:51] Lani Global: with the move toward all the power being in the streaming servers<br />
[11:51] Lani Global: and not much power in the client<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the stats released recently for average online count it pretty scary, particular when you consider how many of them are likely to be bots<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm hardly ever in SL any more.<br />
[11:51] OtakuMegane Desu: Camera angles and such are really more a viewer thing I think. And there again, SL compatibility. It really should have been improved long ago.<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Lani, wrong. things move away from server side and more to client side<br />
[11:52] Lani Global: unfortunately, to a certain extent, the destiny of the opensim user community is tied a lot to the SL user community.<br />
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: Lol. SL is full of bots.<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: They could do what you can do in a game like Uru. You can see the world through the eyes of the avatar or watch it from the back (ala SL)<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I gather they've now completely cut the money side of it out of anyone other than themselves<br />
[11:52] Robert Adams: I do wonder what this VR renaissance will turn into.... make the same mistakes or does something different come about?<br />
[11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I hear HiFi is trying to mix client and server side physics. I hope they have more success than I did when I tried that with a Unity based client<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: all I can say is there is still nothing I find to be better than OpenSim :)<br />
[11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: ^<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: nothing even close for that matter<br />
[11:53] Lani Global: with the new goggle-oriented VR, it seems possible that a resurgence could catapult a new generation into user-built virtual world<br />
[11:53] Robert Adams: Dahlia, they are even using BUllet :)<br />
[11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: Opensim has a lot to be worked on but the potential is huge.<br />
[11:54] Robert Adams: I need to check HiFi again... a few months ago, avatars didn't have gravity or anything... it was really hard to us<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Depend where you stay robert<br />
[11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya I think they have a long way to go before it can be considered a marketable product<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would be great for a ISS sim<br />
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: aeiou<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, SL and OS have so its problem toi. SL is to expensive. and OS not many use. at least not see many except here<br />
[11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: sometimes y<br />
[11:56] Lani Global: the modern user generation expects extreme life-like virtual world experiences in their pocket.<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I think realistically even if they overcome the scalling problems<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's the only scary side lani<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: we are not anytime soon going to see high percentages of the worlds populations using VW<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: there is not just a technology problem there I dont think<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: most people just are not interested<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: BTW, last week I was talking about the Notify button for events. I got the code working to support the feature. I am able to have an event notice request get added to a database table and removed from it. I just need the cron job to go with it, or some other way to act on the requests.<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they said that about the internet 30 years ago, Neb :p<br />
[11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: VW has some practical uses but at the level pretty much all of them are currently at, it just doesn't have a "mainstream" place yet.<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh it will eventually change<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but im saying if LL made it so 10 million people could log into SL tomorrow<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: 10 million concurent<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe<br />
[11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: Eventually it'll happen, that's pretty clear really. It's just got a ways to go.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: they would never hit those numbers<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: not ever<br />
[11:58] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: we need a telepathy module so we can take on Facebook<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No not F..book<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its just my perspective I don't know<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a telepathy module or a blanket invasion of privacy module?<br />
[11:59] Robert Adams: that's what we're missing.... a module that collects information about all the users so it can be sold to advertizers ;-)<br />
[11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br />
[11:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol<br />
[11:59] Lani Global: the goggle VR is quite cumbersome, so even though it will have a niche market, it seems it will not quite be the mass market some think.<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: installs a teleblocker<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and a mechanism to stream their ads directly into a region without the region owner being able to stop it<br />
[12:00] Hans Nerido: the money grids would like this tool lol<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and without the viewer being able to block it either<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: but I am a hard core vrtual world person, but almost everyone I show this to in real world who isnt into VW thinks its cool, but I havent ever, not once been able to show someo who had no idea what a virtual world was and have them be even the slighest bit interested in actualy using it<br />
[12:00] Robert Adams: I'd like some peripherial vision... I don't like looking down a tunnel<br />
[12:00] OtakuMegane Desu: If you could get a mental link for the interface and interact with a VW intuitively like you would the real world it'd probably take off fast enough to leave a sonic boom. The type of stuff you see in anime and such.<br />
[12:01] Lani Global: 3d surround display is not yet invented.<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: I think the biggest place OpenSimulator could really flourish still is in Education<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the data flow requirement would get pretty enormous pretty fast<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I think its not being used enough for education still<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: screw SL<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:02] OtakuMegane Desu: VWs will be very big eventually, the development and technology just isn't there yet.<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i dont think OS is suitable for education. mabye for short while<br />
[12:03] OtakuMegane Desu: If you're willing to endure the learning curve and limitations it can certainly be fun but most people don't want to bother.<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: its more educational tat minecraft, or can be anyway<br />
[12:03] Lani Global: education is a big potential for OpenSimulator, agreed. But often, education has a small budget these days, and the technical personnel needed to make OpenSimulator happen for mainstream education isn't there yet.<br />
[12:03] Elektra Resident: <ru-en> hi<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: well budget is a very good reason why opensimulator is a good choice<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the amount of money schools spend on software is insane<br />
[12:04] Lani Global: So, even though OpenSim cost is low... it still requires an infrastructure within the education environment, and programming of content to make it viable.<br />
[12:04] Sarah Kline: the original attraction of SL that attracted people was that anything was possible or allowed...they they had to bring in controls to reign people in<br />
[12:04] OtakuMegane Desu: But is the software cool stuff or just a design program for new football uniforms? :P<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: opensimulator has so much more use than just a social environment though<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: like what I am doing with Encitra<br />
[12:05] Robert Adams: I need to run.... take care all... and keep the faith<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we are modeling entire cities<br />
[12:05] Lani Global: so, if OpenSim based complete "textbooks" were available, do you think there would be takers for them?<br />
[12:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: SL had a lot of hype when it was new and that hype has waned a lot<br />
[12:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and now it's not new and shiny any more<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: students get credit for it<br />
[12:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so more hype may not help<br />
[12:06] OtakuMegane Desu: SL had much the same potential Opensim does. The problem is it got tied down in profit and grabbing part of the social network market.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[12:07] Lani Global: Currently we have some good free educational OpenSim oar files for environments/buildings... but not really much in the way of oar files that have textbook style content.<br />
[12:07] Lani Global: like it or not, our current education system is largely based on the antiquated notion of textbooks.<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Otaku, opensim is missing one thing for people. well the think content protection<br />
[12:08] Lani Global: so, if educational content writers/creators were to focus their effort, perhaps a virtual textbook on just one prototype subject or class... maybe Physics 101 or something... could be made.<br />
[12:09] Lani Global: right now, there's not much we can point to as an example.<br />
[12:09] Sarah Kline: you can either have freedom or content protection<br />
[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: to get more sl people you need both<br />
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to head out. See you next week.<br />
[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye andrew<br />
[12:09] OtakuMegane Desu: COntent protection isn't a terribly big concern to the average user, more creators, especially the ones looking to make money. The amount of people who download music and software and such illegally pretty much says how much they care about IP.<br />
[12:10] Sarah Kline: ^^<br />
[12:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Chikcing , egg. no content no users. no users no content creators<br />
[12:11] OtakuMegane Desu: For things I make, I don't really care as long as someone doesn't take credit for themselves, I make stuff to be out there and get used, my day job pays the bills.<br />
[12:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Otaku, sure, but it's pretty hard to be in any digital content creation business and not have your content run on people's computers<br />
[12:12] Lucy Afarensis: A lot to think about<br />
[12:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, it is. There's a huge field of questions and dilemmas along the way that have to be figured out eventually. It'll take time.<br />
[12:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I get very demotivated when people take credit for my work<br />
[12:13] sara vita kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.76 m).<br />
[12:13] Shez Oyen: As soon as we have a money system here the thrill will be gone for me<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods emphatically<br />
[12:13] Lucy Afarensis: In the mean time I am going to go make something<br />
[12:13] Lucy Afarensis: Bye all<br />
[12:14] OtakuMegane Desu: Bye<br />
[12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Lucy<br />
[12:14] Sarah Kline: bye<br />
[12:14] Lani Global: It's almost better to have "haters" of your work, than for them to steal credit.<br />
[12:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: anyway, the biggest problem for opensim is the SL viewers. that's a problem some point. time it get replaced for something open<br />
[12:14] sara vita kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.98 m).<br />
[12:14] OtakuMegane Desu: Unfortunately far easier said than done.<br />
[12:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: SO, converting opensim at some point to hifi can be solution. includiong script emulation sofar possible<br />
[12:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Richardus, but without a more flexible scenegraph a different viewer doesn't make much sense<br />
[12:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's why i like your idea dahlia<br />
[12:15] Lani Global: isn't HiFi dependent on specific hardware at the user side?<br />
[12:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sofar i know, no<br />
[12:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, dont try to run it on Pentium 1 offcorse<br />
[12:15] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think HiFI is PC/Mac/Linux only still<br />
[12:15] Elektra Resident: <en-ru> ну, не пытайтесь запустить это на Pentium 1 offcorse<br />
[12:15] Sarah Kline: i still havent got to grips with this viewer yet lol<br />
[12:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes dahlia<br />
[12:16] Lani Global: such as the motion capture gesture devices?<br />
[12:16] Jak Daniels: I think it does require a certain level of graphics card too<br />
[12:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Jak, SL and OS need possible a stroinger card default<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: I know people who have Nvidia GTS 250 that can use HiFi<br />
[12:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but hard to say what the bottom will be<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats fairly low end hardware<br />
[12:17] OtakuMegane Desu: But the biggest problem is integrated graphics. EVen a GTS 250 will crush almost anything integrated<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bringing opensim on top of hifi would be very nice solution.. but a bit earlky to say<br />
[12:17] OtakuMegane Desu: IG however is fairly widespread now and will continue to increase<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: HiFi actually requries OpenGL 3.5<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: I think<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: so that cuts out quite a bit of hardware<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: i beleive they intent to go to OpenGL 4<br />
[12:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think the advise openGL 4.0 neb<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: which will kill even more people off<br />
[12:18] Lani Global: so, it's not something that you can currently run on an android smartfone?<br />
[12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. Minecraft isn't even off GL 2 yet<br />
[12:18] sara vita: olá<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[12:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Neb, at the time old hardware mabye is already broken for people<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: the best Android phones can only do OpenGL ES 2.0<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: which is like stripped down version of OpenGL 2.0<br />
[12:18] sara vita kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.12 m).<br />
[12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Running SL/Opensim on a phone would probably make it melt lol<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: its not even enough to render SL properly<br />
[12:18] sara vita: alguem fala portugues, ou espanhol?<br />
[12:19] Elektra Resident kommt in Chat-Reichweite (14.21 m).<br />
[12:19] Lani Global: it seems that the main touted features of HiFi are the gesture and capture based avatar movement and lipsync.<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: honestly HiFi is not good at all yet really<br />
[12:19] Lani Global: for those, don't you need more than just a selfie cam?<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: they have a lot of work to do<br />
[12:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya I hear canned animations aren't even working yet<br />
[12:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's the base. not requirted lani. lot's of things can be implemented.. later<br />
[12:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Like always, many interesting technologies and ideas, but who knos which will succeed. If any.<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: i heard some horror stories too about HiFI voice<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: they are not compressing voice<br />
[12:20] Elektra Resident: hi everyone<br />
[12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: just how hard would it be to add custom (user-defined) armatures to Opensim?<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: i heard a few people went crazy over their monthly bandwidth limits<br />
[12:20] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi Elektra<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: running hifi nodes<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: like tbs of data in a month<br />
[12:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume major addition at the viewer end would have to go along with it<br />
[12:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Blame the stupid ISP that still use a limit<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: so ya, its not good idea to use it for anything serious yet<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:21] OtakuMegane Desu: That's pretty bad to generate TBs from voice<br />
[12:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: OS have the same problem with limits for people<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea it uses no compression yet<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:21] Master Dubrovna: Back to work. Good day everyone.<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: ok ya I need to run as well<br />
[12:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye master<br />
[12:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Bye<br />
[12:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: thanks guys good chat today :)<br />
[12:21] Jak Daniels: they want super low latency for audio... most compressions kill that<br />
[12:21] Elektra Resident: <en"}> {"code":200,"lang":"e<br />
[12:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah, better run too<br />
[12:21] Elektra Resident: <en-ru> спасибо, ребята, хорошо сегодня общаться :)<br />
[12:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: same time next week :)<br />
[12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods...as should I<br />
[12:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya prolly time to do something else. bye all :)<br />
[12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a great week all<br />
[12:22] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: see you everyone<br />
[12:22] Lani Global: cheers<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-06-30Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-302015-10-25T22:54:30Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone<br />
[11:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi andrew<br />
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon said he may not make it to todays meeting.<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: then i think it get a silent meeting :O<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not have to say much right now<br />
[11:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.82 m).<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (6.09 m).<br />
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have anything. I was going to work on a mod to the ossearch module but I haven't done all the changes I had planned.<br />
[11:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.22 m).<br />
[11:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves....sorry I'm late<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Dahlia.<br />
[11:06] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia, aine<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, aine.<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: It might be a short meeting today.<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi aine dahlia<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and hi all<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon said he was not at home and he wasn't sure if he would get back in time for todays meeting.<br />
[11:07] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.51 m).<br />
[11:07] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.91 m).<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has Justin given up working on Opensim now or is he simply too busy with other work for the time being?<br />
[11:08] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.32 m).<br />
[11:09] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: hello all<br />
[11:09] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think he said he's pretty busy with his new job<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Not so much given up on it as moved on to other things.<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's too bad<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: He might still contribute to OS now and then but it won't be with the frequency of updates from him as in the past.<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Apparently he has been working on OS stuff for about years.<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 wonders if that means the larger outstanding larger bugs are unlikely to get any attention at all now<br />
[11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: slightly longer than I have I believe<br />
[11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I started around 2008<br />
[11:13] madmax huet kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.14 m).<br />
[11:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is starting to feel old :(<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Your still shiny and noi rust dahlia<br />
[11:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, looks like nebadon may be joining us after all.<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi kommt in Chat-Reichweite (13.59 m).<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:19] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: get your list with problems !, if you have one<br />
[11:19] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi neb<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, nebadon<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: You made it after all.<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: sorry I am late, was out and took longer to get back than I expected<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: blame the tourists nebadon<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I did pass on the fact that you might not make it.<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya I actually thought it would take me longer to get back<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: so what did I miss :)<br />
[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the sound of silence<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: We haven't talked about much. There was a question about Justin change in jobs and mostly leaving work on OS.<br />
[11:21] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: thatwas it<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ah yes, Justin has been busy with new line of work<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: his time for opensimulator will remain very limited for a while<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: he won't completely disappear but he also wont have a lot of time for it either<br />
[11:23] Sarah Kline kommt in Chat-Reichweite (12.52 m).<br />
[11:23] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: without justin, im worried opensim development will slow to a crawl, he did so much<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 has much the same concern<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought about that too.<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps a slow walk rather than a crawl. There are a few others still working on OS on a regular basis.<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: well development usually comes in waves anyway<br />
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there are people who chip in little bits and pieces and the occasional fix there and there, but he was the one typically to tackle any of the larger bugfixes<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: Diva is still working hard on it and moses will be commiting a lot more patches over time<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so without anyone doing that, it seems like "status quo and live with it" will be the mantra for at least the foreseeable future<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I don't think things will slow down too much<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sure, but if anything that tends to be "lets code shiny new stuff" rather than the ugly, boring work of fixing old bugs<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Melanie still drops in some code changes now and then<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: Misterblue said he has been busy lately but I think he will have some more time too hopefully<br />
[11:25] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hopefully community involvement will increase<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Its pretty typical come begining of summer for things to slow down a lot<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but it feels for people mabye a bit slower then ormal<br />
[11:26] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: there was a lot of community involvement before justing decided to do OpenSim full time<br />
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I mainly tackle small stuff. I don't feel I have the time to dig that deep in to the code base to handle some of the things that need fixing.<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: better not andrew, not sure who is getting you out of that web :)<br />
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Even a one line fix of mine got rejected a while ago so it would be even harder for me to do something big.<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: brb have to relog<br />
[11:27] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:27] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i will keep uploading patches when i can, i think i need to make time to dig deeper into the code myself and learn more<br />
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I've got too many other projects. I have at least a half dozen scripted gadgets of mine to finish<br />
[11:28] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.89 m).<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: [11:27 AM] Nebadon Izumi is Offline<br />
[11:27 AM] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:27 AM] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i will keep uploading patches when i can, i think i need to make time to dig deeper into the code myself and learn more<br />
[11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi is Online<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: doh cache cleared :) had to change computers<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you need everything again, nebadon?<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya if anyone has patches that need to go in, feel free to let me know right away<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew, maybe just at the end you or someone can send me the whole transcript<br />
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: thanks<br />
[11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, what is the max size u would use for a var region, 768x768?<br />
[11:32] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.84 m).<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya personally I would try to stay to 1024 or under<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: The suggestion has been nothing larger than an 8x8.<br />
[11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im thinking about pushing it an extra 256<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I prefer 768 myself<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: 1024 would be 4x4.<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its a nice balance between size and limiting yourself to how much content any 1 simulator gets<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you just need to be sensible about it<br />
[11:33] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.21 m).<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think Justin's comment a while back as 4x4<br />
[11:33] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.35 m).<br />
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it rather depends what you're putting in it<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you can not expect that if you are running a 2048x2048 that you can fit 64 regions worth of content in it<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: if you are sensible with your design its ok to push a little larger as long as you keep the limits in mind<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. 8x8 fully populated var would be pushing things. On the other hand, if it was going to stay mostly empty (like a large water area) it wouldn't be as bad.<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: that your simulator really cant hold anymore content than a stndard 256m2 region can<br />
[11:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (12.16 m).<br />
[11:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: sorry viewer crashed<br />
[11:34] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yea, we were wanting to have larger regions but more spreadout, i think alot of people are thinking in SL terms still and packing alot in a small space<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so if you have good design then size of var doesnt mater as much<br />
[11:34] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: so did mine<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately a lot of people want to treat a 1024x1024m var the same as 16 independant regions<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: thats just a recipe for a bad time<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: like making a 4x4 residential strikes me as nuts<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it depends<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but a 8x8 sailing sim would be fine<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: if you have lots of space in between each building then its fine<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it really just depends on your goals<br />
[11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i wish i could enable the new parcel layer sending by distance, but i had problems with parcel lines showing that didnt exist<br />
[11:36] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: Do they have to be square?<br />
[11:36] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont think so<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: vars?<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Usage of the var will have the biggest impact on what you can do and how big you can make a var while keeping performance from suffering.<br />
[11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: thats a major limiting factor, if the whole regions parcel data is resent every time some one clicks the terrain<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I thought they did need to be square at the moment<br />
[11:36] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I have non-square vars<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: AFAIK, vars have to be square.<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ah interesting<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Not sure why.<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I thought they had to be square but to be honest I never tried<br />
[11:37] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: nope<br />
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, what are some sizes you have?<br />
[11:37] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: rectangles?<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: they have to atleast be rectangle I think<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: cant do L shapes or donuts or anything<br />
[11:37] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: mine are usually 1024 or smaller<br />
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I meant your non-square ones.<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: don't get me wrong I am all for people experimenting with insanely gigantic var regions<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: my max is 3x3<br />
[11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh I think I have a 256x512 on osgrid<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... a donut var. :)<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: as long as you keep your expectations in check<br />
[11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: "Pirate's Harbor" is 256x512<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: my Sisyphus region is set for 1536x1536<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did not know it can be reectangle<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but it has maybe like 6000 prims total or something<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I think the one main restriction is the the size has to be a multiple of 256m.<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: amn around 17000 prims on some<br />
[11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont know any reason why it couldn't be a rectanble<br />
[11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *rectangle<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...I think people tend to get kind of script/toy happy in residential type sims which is fine when there aren't 50 other residences on the same instance also doing that<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: I thought it was something because of the map<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps certain things dont work 100% in rectangle<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: but it still starts up ok<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Not always the number of scripts but their run times that can kill a region.<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya but thats true even on normal regions Andrew<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: A single script can pull things down even on a regular region.<br />
[11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: map usually doesn't work for me on any size var, square or not<br />
[11:39] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i thought it was the same reason differnt sizes couldnt be put next to each other, viewer doesnt like it lol<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: brb afk a sec<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the other day I was in a 4x4 sim that was filled with stores and assorted other stuff and the owner was building a full club to go there too, and I'm thinking to myself that if more than 4 people show up the region will crash and burn<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1 simulator is running 2 3x3 var's around 17000 prims each i think<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but almost o scripts<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Alicia, yea, that is what I heard. It was believed to cause a viewer some sort of indigestion if you put vars of different sizes next to each other.<br />
[11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Aine, ya that sounds bad<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: like trying to host 15 Wright Plazas on a sim and then add a club<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, the other day I had 18 people on a 2x2(?) var<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hehe, no 48 core is going to help<br />
[11:41] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: I was at a sim that was standard size surronded by 4 big Vars<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's all about content, Andriw<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if it's a relatively "light" 2x2 no problem<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: will it with mesh and scripts and textures and nifty toys and it's going to be very unpleasant<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *fill<br />
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure of the prim count. It is being used to celebrate Canada Day and the US Independance Day holidays<br />
[11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh for an event/<br />
[11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ?<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: There are a number of vendor carts around and a stage in one corner for live performers.<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, yea<br />
[11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so they wont know it's bad until the event starts? 0.p<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Week long celebration<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: already started.<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: people tend not to think about how well their regions will scale to population<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they figure if they can be in it, building, it will be fine with 15 otherpeople sudddenly tp into it<br />
[11:45] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: If one of them is on a slow connection it can crap things up<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is one of the bugs, too, to not be able to disallow direct HGtp into a region<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of mesh objects in the region can affect it. This var has lots of mesh trees and the carts for vendors to use are also mesh.<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, a single latent viewer will kill the entire thing<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be good to get that fixed in OS.<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: back<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yet another bug that looks like it won't be getting any attention since Justin is the one who was going to tackle that back in January<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: A single viewer with a bad connection should not ruin life for everyone else in the region.<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it shouldn't, but it does/can<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect the Moses team is going to be looking quite hard at some of that stuff<br />
[11:46] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hmm I thought you needed the "GridHypergrid" configuration to allow direct hypergrid tp? or did that break?<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I know diva has interest in improving that stuff too<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's broken, Dahlia<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I reported it in Mantis<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7622<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: did it ever work?<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm not 100% sure<br />
[11:47] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: Hvaing neibor sims that are not on line can cause problems<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: to be honest I didnt think we were ever able to stop HG visitors<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I assume it must have, Neb<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because you used it in OSCC<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no we didnt<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: actually<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ive never used that<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC its all group permissions<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then how did you force HG arrivals to only that one region?<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and if your not in the righ group<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: seems like some network connections are holding things up until something times out and it moves on.<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: it deverts you to the default<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: thats why it appears to work like you think<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but its actually not the same<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC was all groups control<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a HG visitor, even with the correct group, could still only arrive in "HG arrivals" and then tp from there, though.....or am I wrong?<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I can say for sure though I personally have never tried "NoDirectLogin"<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: well for OSCC the landing zones were all group owned<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and all HG visitors had thier own group<br />
[11:50] Lance Fang: hello Ni<br />
[11:50] Lance Fang: long time no see<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so basically you would almost always be diverted to your proper landing zone<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: no matter what you did<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm....okay<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but that requires 100% group control everywhere<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: which is probaly not desirable<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not practical for a more general use, unfortunately<br />
[11:50] Ni Lemon: Hello Lance<br />
[11:50] Ni Lemon: good evening<br />
[11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I thought you couldn't hg tp in if you did not use the "GridHypergrid.ini" config but I can't say I've tried it in a long time<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and that setting would be extremely good<br />
[11:51] Lance Fang kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.76 m).<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea ok I will ask Diva to take look<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but honestly I would be surprised if it ever worked right for HG<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: there might be a way to limit HG visitors though by changing the simulator settings<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the goal would be for high traffic regions to be able to divert any direct logins to a "safe" arrival region instead<br />
[11:51] Ni Lemon kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.86 m).<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you can disallow them completely as a sim level<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right you just want the intial teleport diverted?<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's an all-or-nothing thing<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: not all teleports right?<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats tough one<br />
[11:52] Ni Lemon: sorry for being late, good evening you all<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure its possible but we can find out<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ni, no worries, I was also late today :)<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I want the high impact "arriving in grid" hit to be handled by a region that is designed for it<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then from there they can tp<br />
[11:52] Ni Lemon: pleasd to see you Nebs<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea it makes sense Aine, I am just not sure we have any capabilities as of right now to handle that<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because then when they enter the region it's just like a local TP<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I will see what Diva thinks when she is back around<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if it involves new code....<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: she is traveling at the moment<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would also be very nice to be able to disallow local user login to a specific region too<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think that was the initial intent of that setting<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when 30 people all crash at a party they can't log right back in to that sim and kill it again<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: not really HG<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but maybe I am wrong<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that said though, I know the goal of the MOSES team is to fix a lot of this stuff<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: its probably going to take some time though<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: to improve logins etc..<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats one of the reasons their first steps have been programming new ways to evaluate statistics more accurately<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think they're tackling it in a very logical way<br />
[11:56] Lucy Afarensis kommt in Chat-Reichweite (13.69 m).<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: they have very limited staff as well<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i think they only have 3 or 4 people total<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they need metrics to be able to measure whether subsequent code tweaks are doing what they should be<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so its just going to take some time<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only thing that worries me about that (a little) is they have very specific end-use in mind<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yes they do<br />
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i was thinking the same aine<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: They are also still getting their dev structure in place and learning how to best work with the other OS developers.<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but the fact remains if they dont sure up the foundation a lot<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: they will never reach their goal<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so they're likely not going to address issues that don't affect their needs, and are likely to introduce things that benefit their needs but might break/hurt things for other users<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think some of their early mistakes<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: were trying to make vast improvements to systems that you just can not improve without fixing lots of other things first<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and for them it caused tons of set backs and failures<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: I think they are finally realizing that if they need to get to where they want to be, you must first fix the base functionality<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: cant just slap a new physics engine on and expect it to fix everything<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: like DSG for instance<br />
[12:00] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: gotta run, bye all :)<br />
[12:00] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye dahlia<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia<br />
[12:00] Lucy Afarensis: bye<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye<br />
[12:00] Ni Lemon: Bye Dahlia<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: great concept, but plagued by issues in the core of opensim itself<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: bye, Dahlia<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: DSG was most definitely jumping the gun in terms of trying to improve performance if you ask me<br />
[12:01] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev f4dfdbb: 2015-06-28 13:52:45 -0400 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: anyway, don't fret cause things are slow, it really has nothing to do with Justin being away<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: its just the time of year<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Once they have their development methodology in place things should pick up from their side.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: things will pickup again, more work will get done<br />
[12:03] Pebbles Flintstone: hello Lavender and Lance<br />
[12:03] Pebbles Flintstone kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.01 m).<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: It always takes a while to get in to working on a new project.<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...well we can hope, I guess....in the meantime I guess learn to love the bugs we have<br />
[12:04] Ni Lemon: it's good to built good foundations or it can be like a statue with cotton feet<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'll be heading off then....have a good week everyone<br />
[12:04] Lucy Afarensis: bye<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, at least you know about them. Its the ones that you don't know about that can bite you.<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-06-23Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-232015-10-25T22:54:17Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Bluewall....can you think of a reason why an OSG visitor specifically entering a region would suddenly cause a ~500MB increase in RAM usage for the simulator that is then subsequently never released? It doesn't happen every time, but it only happens when the visitor is an OSG resident who HGs there<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the only way to free the memory again is to restart the simulator<br />
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: No aine,unless there is something in the networking causing buffers<br />
[11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Linux ?<br />
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: you might look at the stats<br />
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi kommt in Chat-Reichweite (10.69 m).<br />
[11:01] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that was on a linux server, yes<br />
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: see if packet delivery is haning<br />
[11:01] Shez Oyen: Think of the Devil, hi Neb :)<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi Neb<br />
[11:02] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ~ hallo ~<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sofar i know linux is bad in GC.<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi wolf<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: or better mono is bad<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with others the GC seems to work okay for other visitors though<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: Mono runs ok<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but 500MB is still to much if it where scripts<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: scripts are disabled in that region too<br />
[11:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.45 m).<br />
[11:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.32 m).<br />
[11:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hello :)<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and (at least so far) it's only an OSG visitor who tps directly into the region that causes it<br />
[11:03] Shez Oyen: Hi Alicia :)<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyone else is doesn't seem to spike nearly as badly and it clear itself within a couple minutes<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: do they have an unusually complex avatar?<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is ther mabye memory cache ?<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: there is nothing special about how OSG is configured really<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: poor Internet connection?<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no....generic SL with a few attachments<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: Does every OSgrid user do it?<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: or just a paritcular user<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the same user can TP in multiple times and only trigger it on one or two occasions<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so it's one of those dreaded hard-to-duplicate bugs<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is this person maybe has spotty network connection or something<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: packet loss lots of reqeuing<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they *do* have an enormous inventory on one of the users it has happened with<br />
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: see if UnackB in stats is high<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: might cause a bottle neck<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: that would only matter if they teleport prior to it being downloaded<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: in which case you would probably see errors on your console<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mhmm<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: lots and lots of errors<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and there are no errors at all in console<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya my guess is they have packet loss<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: maybe on wifi connection<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's possible<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's not jsut one user<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: is this region hosted at your home?<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ok<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's on the same box as our main grid server<br />
[11:07] Lucy Afarensis kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.69 m).<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in a datacenter in Montreal<br />
[11:08] Lucy Afarensis kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.01 m).<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yea its really hard to say without just speculating / guessing with so little data to go on<br />
[11:08] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.76 m).<br />
[11:08] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia<br />
[11:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia<br />
[11:08] Shez Oyen: Hi Dahlia :)<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I had read some comments Bluewall made that were posted in a blog from the Safari this week<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: re profiles<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and just wondered if somehow it could be related to that<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: that seems unlikely<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since we're running core profils<br />
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: I really doubt it<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: profiles are so little amount of data<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its probably less than 1mb<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's the size of it too, that's really weird<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 500MB is a massive amount to have it suddenly eat<br />
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: look at your network stats<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: this is under mono right?<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes.....3.4.something I think<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: we had some issues here on this region and all the plazas using mono 4.0.1 and huge amounts of memory being used<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: we reverted back to 3.12 on this box and 3.2.3 on lbsa box<br />
[11:11] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.48 m).<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and problem went away<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Tim has the same issue<br />
[11:11] Shez Oyen: Robert :)<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and opensim wont even run on master git mono anymore<br />
[11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: since i updated on the 18th i noticed cpu useage is higher aswell for some reason<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ive been trying once a week for the last month<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and it still won't load<br />
[11:12] Robert Adams: hello all... back after being away for a while<br />
[11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: what's the error?<br />
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: Hi Robert<br />
[11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi Robert<br />
[11:12] Shez Oyen: WB Robert<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: let me see if i can find the error<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br />
[11:12] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi robert<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.32 m).<br />
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: I've been running ok on whatever the latest packages from Xamarin are, not a heavy load, but really stable.<br />
[11:13] Shez Oyen: Hi Lucy :)<br />
[11:14] Robert Adams: you're discussing problems that seem to be related to using the latest Mono?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com/6cvydQY1<br />
[11:14] Lucy Afarensis: Hi Shez<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: that is the error Dahlia<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: I have been trying their weekly tarball version of mono once a week for the past month Robert<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and opensimulator will no longer start<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: it gets the above message in that pastebin<br />
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: looks like database error?<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Could the 500MB spike be related to someone having a big inventory?<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: seems like it cant read ini<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so BlueWall<br />
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: I mean that sectino<br />
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: Nini?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: if i change back to mono 4.0.1<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it starts right up<br />
[11:16] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Nebadon, looks like maybe a dll loading issue<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: without making any changes to anything<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: maybe they changed mono addins or something<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: technically it shouldnt break anything even if they did<br />
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: will it work with just the default settings using SQLite?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I don't know<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I didnt actually try that<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but I would be surprised if it does<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think it even gets as far as database<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, that pastebin looks like what you might get if a (DB related) connection string is incorrect or missing.<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: it instantly crashes<br />
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: also might look at it under debugger<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew usually the error says MySQL<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: The code needs a common way to test connection strings after it reads them from the ini so it can report if it is bad.<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if it cant read connection string properly<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, not always. It doesn't often know about the problem until later.<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: this error is not specific<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it actually is the same exact error you get if you download master git opensim<br />
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: maybe put a little bit of logging in the datbase module to see if it is loading, or if that message is bogus<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and rename OpenSim.ini.example<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and dont change anything<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: then start up opensim<br />
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: right<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you get the same exact error<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: which makes it feel like of like maybe its having trouble with Nini<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and embeded links to other ini files<br />
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: I think that is one of the first things to get checked.<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: You did uncomment on of the architectcure include lines?<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yes this region runs constantly<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: its Sisyphus on OSgrid<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: all i did was change path to mono<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and restart region<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: it wnt load<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: change it back to old mono it loads<br />
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: when you try it again, try starting a new standalone with SQLite just to see<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ok<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect it wont<br />
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: probably not<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: because it literally crashes after its done listing the ini files<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you dont see the simulator start at all<br />
[11:21] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: i have red errors<br />
[11:21] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: too<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i'll give that a shot soon though<br />
[11:21] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: LLclientview<br />
[11:22] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: if i opnen my profile<br />
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: Robert, I have been looking into the avatar placement and movement to see about the non-standard avatars.<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: Wolfman.Freeman ya you are probably running Core Profiles on your grid<br />
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: Looking back, it seems like the start of this was probably changes in the region crossing code back in 2013<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is still running OSprofiles<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so there is some miscommunications between them still<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: its mostly just noise, nothing to really worry about<br />
[11:25] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: i run core<br />
[11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 7edaf1d: 2015-06-19 08:44:34 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:25] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: i know<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:25] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: yeah<br />
[11:26] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: core-profiles works, but red errors makes me nervios<br />
[11:26] Robert Adams: what problems are you looking at, BlueWall?<br />
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: There is a mantis - I'll look for the number in a sc, but small avatars get planted into the ground and causes them to bounce<br />
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: NPC are also different from avatars and need to be adjusted too I guess.<br />
[11:28] Robert Adams: ah... remember that one... these are tinies or just short avatars?<br />
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: Right now, I'm studying to see how they are placed, moved, etc.<br />
[11:29] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: do you know if the capsule bounces also?<br />
[11:29] Robert Adams: I don't know why NPCs are different than avatars.... something must be initialized differently when they two types of avatars are created<br />
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: standard avatars (inventory parts) an a small frame I guess?<br />
[11:29] Robert Adams: I'd suspect the capsule bounces in the viewer and not in-world<br />
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: Dahlia, I don't. How would I tell?<br />
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: IO went back to 0.7.6 and movement is pretty good ...<br />
[11:30] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: not sure, maybe a prim attached to the pelvis point<br />
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: Also stairs are problematic now<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the capsule has changed since then<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: I think<br />
[11:30] Sarah Kline kommt in Chat-Reichweite (14.51 m).<br />
[11:30] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: or perhaps the nametag bouncing<br />
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: I reverted the capsule change and the previous one and that did help.<br />
[11:31] Robert Adams: the viewer tries to keep the avatar above what it is standing on.... if the simulator tells the viewer a height then a location, the viewer tries to use that to keep the avatar above ground in the view<br />
[11:31] Robert Adams: that would make the viewer move the avatar up then the sinulator telling it a different location<br />
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: but, there must be a happy medium, because in 0.7.6 it all worked pretty smooth<br />
[11:32] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya the viewer tries to keep the feet on the ground even if the ground is not level<br />
[11:32] Robert Adams: yes,,, changed the capsule (to a box to reduce CPU load) and tweeked the height defaults to make some things better<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: how are things going to work when the feet offset is in all viewers ?<br />
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: smaller avatars fett are planted into the ground pretty deep.<br />
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: when they move, they bounce, then go back into the ground<br />
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7535 is the mantis.<br />
[11:33] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: ive seen that problem but only with tiny mesh avatars<br />
[11:33] Robert Adams: considering SL added height adjustment to the viewer, they know their avatar height/location protocol sucks<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: But, at that point I just used bisect to see the point where all avatars feet were above ground<br />
[11:34] Robert Adams: it is a hard system to make work in all cases<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: I think so :)<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and ground sit is still broken<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6813<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya ground sit seems to ignore prims below you<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: no matter where you are<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you literally sit on the terrain<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but not always<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: :p<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's really fun when it happens when you're in a skybox a few thousand meters above ground<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: lag seems to be coming from someone who is messing with their inventory<br />
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: Lately I am setting up different "milestone" versin of OpenSim in VM to test the movement and steps<br />
[11:36] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱ Goodbye .. وداعا .. Au Revoir .. Arrivederci ✱<br />
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: bye Wolf<br />
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm getting the idea that Wolf is leaving. :)<br />
[11:37] Shez Oyen: lol<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye wolf<br />
[11:38] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: any one any ideas what could be causing high cpu load? changes around early this month?<br />
[11:38] Shez Oyen: Sarah.. what is happening to you?<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ?<br />
[11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I haven't noticed any change in load<br />
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: can only use bisect, really, to locate a specific commit.<br />
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: I haven't either.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Can't say I have noticed it either<br />
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: but, I have had scripts misbehave in the past after an upgrade.<br />
[11:40] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: might be caused by ubuntu upgrades, there were alof of changes at the time i updated os<br />
[11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I thought I remember some complaints about the time some of the inventory changes went in but I don't know if they are related<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Alicia, Did you remove the cached copies of compiled scripts?<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mhmm<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. It takes several seconds for what I type to show up.<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: sometimes.<br />
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: no, i will clear scripts and see if that helps<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and there is definitely a much harder hit on an login for a minute or so with them<br />
[11:42] Shez Oyen: lag is very bad today<br />
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yea chat lag here also lol<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it doesn't last very long<br />
[11:42] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya chat laggggggg<br />
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes it's a bit laggy<br />
[11:42] Shez Oyen: I couldn't even sit.<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I bet it's someone with a very latent viewer<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this is *exactly* the symptom we see for it<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: yea not sure what is up<br />
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not only chat, seen it with sitting too<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i restarted this region about 30 minutes before meeting<br />
[11:42] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I don't think the new stats are working. I see very low Sim FPS but Time Dilation is 1.0<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: run a check on UnAckB<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i see a ton of timeouts on the console for threading<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there will be someone with very, very high count<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Timeout detected for thread "AsyncLSLCmdHandlerThread". ThreadState=Background. Last tick was 7473ms ago.<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: lots of these<br />
[11:43] Lucy Afarensis: I am on a network in my studio building could I be causing the latentcy?<br />
[11:43] Sheera Khan: I have 250 - 750 KByte unack'ed Bytes at times...<br />
[11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: sounds like Wright Plaza is having a high cpu load issue :P<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and spawning thousand of resends per minute<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: cpu is low<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: week ago one of my regions got complete wonky 100% cpu load. slow request. other simulator displayed mysql error. Still not sure why the region got screwed.<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: memory is low<br />
[11:43] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i had a day where the sims where showing alot of thread timeouts, it seemed to clear up and i thought it was the datacenter doing work<br />
[11:44] Shez Oyen: it was real slow before anyone else was here.. I arrieved about 10 before the meeting and had trouble flying up here<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: unacked bytes are low<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am pretty sure region is dead though<br />
[11:45] Lucy Afarensis: Had no trouble getting here<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: physics are sim stats are at 0fps<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hmmm....anyone with an insanely high resend count?<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and shit ton of thread errors<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: nope<br />
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: hmm, can you get to the thread names?<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: how?<br />
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: hehe, I forgot<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: ping time is121mS. That seems rather high<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oops 5500ms<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: simulator time is nice brave 5500ms before i hity enter<br />
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: I need to do that again and write a script<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: seems fine now<br />
[11:46] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I get 79 here<br />
[11:46] Sheera Khan: 236 ms from Europe<br />
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: but, you have to get the pid of the instance, then dive through proc<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: /proc<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ping is 131ms europe<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh what happens if i log file get to big. ?<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: or so I though<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: seeing tons of inventory posts that are very slow too<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: chat is moving along nicely now<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect its inventory<br />
[11:47] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: my ping is 164 and im in england<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... gone down to about 50mS ping time now.<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is your logile 32MB or bigger ?<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: nm. Looked at wrong stat. ping time still the same.<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: .<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: of course it is<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: the log file would be 32mb in like 10 minutes here<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: haha<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: I really doubt it has anything to do with log file<br />
[11:48] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol cant move<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sim and physics fps are all over the place<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok. blame mono ? :P<br />
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: They are really low unless this has the corrected numbers.<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it seems like the Inventory stuff is coming from Robert<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: has his uuid in all of the messages<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 11fps is max andrew<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sofar i know new nuimbers here<br />
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I wasn't sure if that code was in place here.<br />
[11:50] Lucy Afarensis: 48 ping time for me<br />
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: run robert ! :)<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the inventory messages seem to line up with the timeouts<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's dropping down to 0 periodically<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: im pretty sure whatever is happening is because of inventory requests<br />
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dilation 0 second agi, sim / physics same<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: sim and phys FPS numbers are ok. mostly sitting at 11<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then bouncing up to more than the max 11.3 (how can that happen?)<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[11:51] Robert Adams: not sure what that means off hand<br />
[11:51] Robert Adams: the stats I see has physics time low but 'simulation time' gets very large<br />
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's swu=inging between 0 and 11<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and those inventory requests somehow manage to flood the queue<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i am looking at the console<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so no other traffic gets through<br />
[11:51] Robert Adams: I'd think that simulation time is all the calls to avatatr updates, etc<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and i see a bunch of very long inventory posts that include your UUID ropert<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Robert*<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: very soon the region will time us all out and kick us<br />
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: The meeting is about over anyway so no problem.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that all coincide at the same time the Thread time outs are occuring<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: unless it manages to recover before that happens<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ie:<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 18:50:13 - [WATCHDOG]: 9773 ms since Watchdog last ran. Interval should be approximately 2500 ms<br />
18:50:13 - [WATCHDOG]: Timeout detected for thread "AsyncLSLCmdHandlerThread". ThreadState=Background. Last tick was 5614ms ago.<br />
18:50:21 - [WATCHDOG]: 7792 ms since Watchdog last ran. Interval should be approximately 2500 ms<br />
18:50:28 - [WATCHDOG]: 7412 ms since Watchdog last ran. Interval should be approximately 2500 ms<br />
18:50:41 - [LOGHTTP]: Slow SynchronousRestForms request 41466 POST to http://inventory.osgrid.org/xinventory took 26191ms, 0ms writing, METHOD=GETMULTIPLEFOLDERSCONTENT&PRINCIPAL=9ebe6a26-1b31-44ef-89d5-47b79e24fcc4&FOLDERS=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&COUNT=1<br />
18:50:54 - [LOGHTTP]: Slow SynchronousRestForms request 41526 POST to http://inventory.osgrid.org/xinventory took 10237ms, 0ms writing, METHOD=GETMULTIPLEFOLDERSCONTENT&PRINCIPAL=9ebe6a26-1b31-44ef-89d5-47b79e24fcc4&FOLDERS=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&COUNT=1<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if the region can wait 8 minutes aine<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: over and over again<br />
[11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: did someone forget to set MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU ?<br />
[11:52] Robert Adams: points to the HTTP server<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: nope<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its only your UUID though Robert<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: kind of strange<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this is the exact problem we reported back in January<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: there is 1000s of lines of what i posted above<br />
[11:53] Robert Adams: Im using FireStorm, wirelessly<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it is a common occurence when someone enters a region with a highly latent viewer or one that is being throttled<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wireless, tssss<br />
[11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Robert are you at work? I think your work firewall is pretty strict about what it lets through<br />
[11:54] Robert Adams: I haven't looked at my inventory.... wonder what its doing<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: did you log in here with a cleared cache?<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: wierd It would completely clobber the sim like this<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ,h,,<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one viewer can do it;....completely kill a sim<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: yea seems so heh<br />
[11:55] Robert Adams: I have a ping time of 143ms and am receiving about 40KB/s of UDP traffic<br />
[11:55] Robert Adams: 5KB/s of 'objects'<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a test grid running on a machine wtih a firewall. THe grid seems me log in but the viewer never gets the response. Not sure what to do about it as I thought I already had the needed holes punched in the firewall.<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: s/seems me login/does log me in/<br />
[11:56] Shez Oyen: maybe a fail safe should be built in to kill any user/client that drains resources<br />
[11:56] Robert Adams: my inventory is still "fetching"<br />
[11:56] Shez Oyen: ahh<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's possible the problem<br />
[11:56] Robert Adams: the number of items is not going up<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, how big is your inventory?<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: looks like we still have a little buglett in there<br />
[11:57] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Shez, then Nebadon wound never be able to log in with his huge inventory ;)<br />
[11:57] Robert Adams: not humongous... but I've gotten a lot of physis test objects over time<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: .<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Dahlia, neb is wiored<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wire<br />
[11:57] Shez Oyen: Dahlia :o<br />
[11:58] Lucy Afarensis: My inventory is over 12000 items<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, the type of objects shouldn't matter if you don't rez them.<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: that was about 8 to 9 seconds of lag on my previous comment<br />
[11:58] Robert Adams: could be that fetching inventory over a connection with latency causes a timeout failure somewhere which it does't recover from -- in fact it goes into a bad failure modee<br />
[11:58] Lucy Afarensis: me too<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Did we not talked about this before when justin where here<br />
[11:59] Robert Adams: I'll log out... be gone for a few minutes... then come back<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes...I've been bringing up this issue since Christmastime<br />
[12:00] Shez Oyen: Haven't seen Justin for a couple of weeks<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it seemed to coincide roughly with the ghost patch merges<br />
[12:00] Lucy Afarensis: We have run into it a lot on the Safari<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *ghost brnach<br />
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: A lot of work has gone into the handling of inventory over the past month or so.<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a lot older issue than that, Bluewall<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Bluewall, true. Could still be one or two minor issues still to iron out<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has been happening since December sometime<br />
[12:01] Lucien Lovelace kommt in Chat-Reichweite (14.71 m).<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: I pasted info into IRC for diva to see as well<br />
[12:01] Lucy Afarensis: I am typing like a mad fiend for no eason<br />
[12:01] Shez Oyen: the lag was bad before Robert arrived<br />
[12:01] Lucy Afarensis: reason<br />
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: haha<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its still doing it<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: even though he left<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi flüstert: its still fetching inventory stuff for his UUID<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it need some time to empty the querry i think<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Speaking of leaving, I'm going to do so. Have an electronics thing to work on.<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: see also: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7393 and http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7308 and http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7395<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: here is what i pasted in IRC<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye andrew<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: sampling<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com/5RCjWza9<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: See you next week.<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: the region does seem a bit smoother now<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: the console seems quieter all the sudden too now<br />
[12:03] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: one question before everyone leaves: would anyone have the chat-log of last weeks meeting for posting it in the office-hours?<br />
[12:03] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.35 m).<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: doh timeout occured again<br />
[12:03] Jim Jackson: hi RObert<br />
[12:03] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: still laggy<br />
[12:03] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: WB Robert :-)<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: console seems quieter though<br />
[12:03] Robert Adams: well, did things get better while I was gone?<br />
[12:03] Lucy Afarensis: I think I will split before I get caught in a crash and have spend an hour rebuiding this avatar<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it usually takes about 5-10 minutes after the person leaves before it may or may not catch up<br />
[12:04] Robert Adams: was that a thread timeout, Neb?<br />
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: bye Lucy<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there will be a massive stack of stuff piled up in the queue<br />
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: .<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: no robert nothing changed<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: and there it goes again<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the entire time you were gone it was still trying to do inventory queries for you<br />
[12:04] Jayde.Tremor @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hello Jim<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: and it still is<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: so, it seems robert is the new test candidate for this bug ?<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: it did seem to pause a minute but now its doing it again<br />
[12:04] Shez Oyen: I wonder if anyone will address the elephant in the room.. any idea what Albert is announcing in 2 weeks? 2 weeks!?<br />
[12:04] Jim Jackson: hello<br />
[12:04] Robert Adams: oooo... there might be a queue for inventory requests....<br />
[12:04] Lucy Afarensis: bye alldam still here<br />
[12:05] Shez Oyen: Hi Jim :)<br />
[12:05] Jim Jackson: hi Shez<br />
[12:05] Robert Adams: some big annoucement in two weeks?<br />
[12:05] Shez Oyen: he posted about it on the forum board<br />
[12:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: those requests really should not be able to slow the simulation<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya nothing to worry about its all good stuff<br />
[12:05] Robert Adams: my inventory stays "Fetching 1,464 Items..." and it is not changing<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ok Robert yea something bonkers going on<br />
[12:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: did you clear cache?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: I think the queue is just flooded<br />
[12:06] Shez Oyen: Thanks for that much Neb :o<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Dahlia: yes....it ignores all throttle settings for the sim too<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: please just ignore it, its literally 100% false<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: I know there has been some kind of Notecard with rumors going around<br />
[12:07] Robert Adams: could be a run away retry loop<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: thats kind of what it looks like Robert<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: I doubt its going to recover heh<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: the console is a mess<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: I need to run out for about an hour, I will try to contact diva in a bit see maybe what she things might be going on<br />
[12:08] Shez Oyen: Robert.. the lag started before you got here, I don't think it's all yer fault.</pre><br />
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<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-06-09Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-092015-10-25T22:54:06Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: I dont have much to say this week, I have been crazy busy havent had much time to look ta the code or doing any testing<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: I saw diva did some more fixes for inventory I did a quick test but I wasnt realy have any trouble with that so hard t say what difference it made<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: more for andrew, bluewall not here. i did test tonight from my frid to osgrid. but no offlineIM here<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: unless snoopy's sim is the problem<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: yea I suspect with summer getting started things will be slow for a little bit<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: I saw that Moses has gotten Physx semi-functional though I dont think its availabel for testing on any level yet<br />
[11:08] Sheera Khan: from semi-functional to fully developed took Inworldz quite some time ^^<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yea It will be a long while before we are testing it I am sure<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, ok. All I can think of is that it doesn't find the sender's UUID in the list of local residents so it doesn't forward the message. I haven't looked at the code for built-in offline IMs to see if that might be what is going on.<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: How does PhysX compare to BulletSim?<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It's ok, only wanted to test that. btw is all opensim stuff moved away from sourceforge ?<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: I think ultimately in terms of what they can offer opensim, not much difference<br />
[11:09] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: BulletSim is available, Physx isn't<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya that too<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, ok. Just made me wonder why start a new physics engine project when BulletSim development has only recently picked up and is moving forward.<br />
[11:10] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (6.59 m).<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: but as far as stand alone packages go, they are pretty compariable in terms of abilities<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: of course physx has huge money behind it<br />
[11:10] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: My impression was that they don't intend to support all featyres that BulletSim does, only the feature they want<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: PhysX is also something supported by some video cards, IIRC.<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: bulletsim can do GPU too<br />
[11:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so unless we find someone willing to implement the rest....<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but we would need to move to the newer version to make that happen<br />
[11:11] Sarah Kline kommt in Chat-Reichweite (5.69 m).<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: PhysX is primarily Nvidia too<br />
[11:11] OtakuMegane Desu: Keyword 'some'. BulletSim is being done with OpenCL so anything that has a driver for that can theoretically be used with Bullet/BulletSim<br />
[11:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont think the bullet that works on GPU is the same as regular bullet<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like PhysX may not be a fully feature replacement for BS unless someone adds what might be missing from it.<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: from what I heard Bulletsim 3 has GPU support<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: we are using 2.8 i think<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: sorry Bullet<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: not bulletsim<br />
[11:12] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. 3 is supposed to be OpenCL so anything that supports OpenCL it should run on.<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... almost too many physics engines. :)<br />
[11:12] OtakuMegane Desu: GPUs, CPUs, ASICs, any number of things in theory.<br />
[11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: from what Ive seen the Bullet that runs on GPU is separate code and much less features<br />
[11:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but that was a while ago<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yea hard to say<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I know the version we use doesnt support it at all at the moment<br />
[11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: It's in conversion so until 3 is actually released and everything is merged it probably is missing a few things<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: honestly, I am not sure GPU will benefit opensim much anyway<br />
[11:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I wouldn't assume OpenSim would be using GPU physics with Bullet for quite a while<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is only going to be able to handle so much in terms of physics<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and sending out all those updates<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: i beleive moses is more interested in accuracy though<br />
[11:14] OtakuMegane Desu: For average stuff like avatars or a handful of vehicles, probably not much effect, no.<br />
[11:14] Sheera Khan: most servers currently in use won't have any GPU to work with ...<br />
[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: Being able to drop 10k prims without the whole simulator freezing up would be cool though. :)<br />
[11:15] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: yuo can get servers with gpus<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Considering it is military based, it wouldn't surprise me that their need is based on accuracy.<br />
[11:16] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm not are that Physx is any more "accurate" than Bullet<br />
[11:16] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *aware<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya me either Dahlia<br />
[11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: In any case, GPU support for BulletSim is a while off and servers being able to utilize extra hardware being commonplace is even further down. Like several years.<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: hehe I am not convinced its going to be any better<br />
[11:16] Sarah Kline: its more able to fire projectiles maybe )<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but I guess you wont know until you try<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: they are looking for higher frame rates<br />
[11:17] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I would think the GPU version of Physx could handle more collisions<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: There are more of the "affordable" video cards supporting PhysX these days.<br />
[11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: we'll just have to see if the Physx implementation ends up being something that anyone prefers to use<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Never hurts to have choices.<br />
[11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm concerned about support<br />
[11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont see any support plan in any of this<br />
[11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Even with full support, Opensim simply doesn't need to utilize all the features PhysX or Bullet are going to be capable of.<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nice to have more choices. but meanwhile basic things still don't work especially HG<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I have people telling me they think too much effort is on HG stuff and not enough on other basics. All depends on ones interests and needs.<br />
[11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm not sure another choice is a good thing if it fills up Mantis with a bunch of complaints about unimplemented features<br />
[11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Going by mantis reports and just looking at stuff the major problems seem to be scripting and communications right now.<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone recently asked me about the event notification button in the viewer. Having an interest in getting event listings useable in a grid it would be nice to make that button work so that is another thing added to my ToDo list.<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: sorry had to take a call im back<br />
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: HG stuff is what opensim people connects. but right now it's not really connecting people because bvroken parts<br />
[11:22] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk kommt in Chat-Reichweite (17.67 m).<br />
[11:22] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hello everyone :)<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I know HG is important to a lot of people but it isn't to me so I haven't been involved in doing any development or or testing related to HG features.<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: HG has been working fairly good for me<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: though I use it very lightly<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: and mostly between my own grids<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i rarely visit other peoples grids<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: It works ok for me, I never expected offline IM to work anyway<br />
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: HG yes, friends staus. uhmm not really.<br />
[11:23] Shez Oyen: it is only the offline IM problem that troubles me with HG<br />
[11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: HG, like most things in OS, works on the basic levels. It's when you get more in depth or use it heavily that all the bugs and duct tape show up.<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: thats a really difficult thing to fix<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya friends is flakey<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: HG friends is probably going to remain pretty hackish<br />
[11:24] Shez Oyen: :/<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: until a better viewer comes along<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: that can do friends properly<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: remember we are making this viewer do things it was never designed to do<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Shez, you also find that offline IM's sent to a local user from a user logged in to a grid via HG isn't being delivered whent e local user logs in?<br />
[11:24] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I don't understand what the viewer has to do with it<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: s/whent e/when the/<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of duct tape holding that all together<br />
[11:24] Fearghus.HyperGridTraveler @www.fearlessmysteries.eu:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.74 m).<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: well just the protocols<br />
[11:25] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the sims handle all the protocol<br />
[11:25] Shez Oyen: I haven't tried that Andrew.<br />
[11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: Everything that involves interaction with the user, the viewer has to support. If it doesn't a workaround has to be kludged together or we're just SOL until someone tinkers with the viewer.<br />
[11:25] Fearghus.HyperGridTraveler @www.fearlessmysteries.eu:8002: hi all<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not saying we can't make it better<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I am just saying we are still a bit bound by what the viewer can do<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: even if the simulator handles it<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: from talking with crista some of the friends problem I beleive has to do with how the viewer asks for the info<br />
[11:26] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the problem I have with HG friends is I have people with the same name on many grids<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: im friends with myself on like 8 grids<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats fun<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: when it doesnt actually show the grid in the name<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: because of cache<br />
[11:27] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I see the grid hame in mine<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: it depends<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: if you visit all the grids first<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and have the name cached<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its generally only a problem for my own accounts<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: most everyone else i see just fine<br />
[11:28] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I haven't seen that<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and for some odd reason today I am seeing myself as Uknown USerUMMAU4<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: dahlia I think it may only be on the friends list this happens<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: not when i am actually standing in front of the person<br />
[11:29] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7527<br />
[11:29] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I was looking on my friends list<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya right now I a see the full URL<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but there have been times when i dont<br />
[11:30] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think it's probably your inventory overloading the internet :P<br />
[11:30] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i had the unknown user alot using radgast, i disabled the option for smart detection of display names and now i hardly get it, but its still a problem<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya I havent seeen the Unkown user in some time<br />
[11:31] Fearghus.HyperGridTraveler @www.fearlessmysteries.eu:8002: i have it too with firestorm Alicia.......sometimes clearing the simulator cache fixes it....although sometimes others then become unknownuser<br />
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: I saw it on another grid I visit on occasion but I think that was due to some people that had been on my friends list but they have left the grid.<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i seen it a while ago. it happens rare for me<br />
[11:32] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (5.95 m).<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to figure this stuff out when its not easy to trigger it<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I cant even imagine what I may have done to cause it<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I was in and out of 3 or 4 grids in the past 24 hours though<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Could also be a temporary glitch.<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, visiting other grids can pollute a viewers cache.<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I find it tends to mess up textures.<br />
[11:34] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: hi, good evening all<br />
[11:34] Sheera Khan: May I ask a completely unrelated question?<br />
[11:34] Sheera Khan: I tried to work with materials and to assign the properties via script. It seems to me llGetPrimitiveParams() doesn't support the constants PRIM_NORMAL and PRIM_SPECULAR. Is that correct or did I make something wrong?<br />
[11:34] Shez Oyen: I met a lady the other day that keeps an alt just for HG... very small inventory and system clothes mostly<br />
[11:34] Grid: Notecard saved<br />
[11:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Sheera I think the constants are there but they have no effect<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i have found that HG gets a lot better<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: if you keep everything you are wearing in your suitcase<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: keep your entire appearance in your suitcase<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and anything you may need access to once you leave home grid<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: animations<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: gestures etc..<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: it really makes the whole experieence a lot better<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and more reliable<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: diva mentioned she is going to hopefully implement teleport restrictions<br />
[11:39] Shez Oyen: seems my suitcase has dissapeared again<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: so you can not teleport away from homegrid if your inventory is still downloading<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: which could provide some releif for remote grids you visit<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: people with large inventory who teleport away before its done can cause pain<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yu use 0.8.2 nebadon. im still on 0.8.1 mabey that makes it worse<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: I am always about a week or less away from master on my own grids<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Avacon grid i try to keep recent<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its usually no more than a month behind master<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Encitra grid trails behind sometimes 3-4 months<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: since its producton im less experimental there<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: we also use a lot of external modules<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: so upgrading a lot means having to constantly adjust these modules<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: when things change<br />
[11:42] Shez Oyen: pain<br />
[11:42] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ haha - LOL Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I'm Exploding!<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: doh<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol explode gesture<br />
[11:43] Shez Oyen: that'll leave a bruise<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: guess i have that programmed to f1 key<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:43] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: i run 0.8.2 latest version...its verry good, HG 2.0 too<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we have had some issues with newer monos here on the OSgrid plazas though<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we were running mono 4<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and we are seeing crazy memory usage<br />
[11:45] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: oh<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it seems to only be heavily visited regions<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: memory just climbs and climbs<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: lightly visited regions run fine<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but Lbsa Plaza and Wright Plaza were absolutely horrible<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: we ended up reverted about 36 hours ago<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: this server is on 3.12 at the moment<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: seems normal again<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what is up with that, but if your running new mono and seeing massive memory usage might be worth reverting for now<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect most people wont<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: the plazas get a lot of visitors<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: somtimes 100s a day<br />
[11:47] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: i have no memory probl. on WIN.<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: 3.12? I'm only using 3.2.8<br />
[11:47] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: Linux<br />
[11:47] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: 3.99 working good for me<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya the Lbsa Plaza server is back on 3.2.3<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, is 3.12 a kernel version or mono version?<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: mono version<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and ya I am running mono 4 on Avacon grid<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and my personal regions and grid<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no problems<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'm way behind on mono version.<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: memory is awesome<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its just a few of our plazas get clobbered for some reason<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its high traffic<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: 100s of visitors<br />
[11:49] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I use a lot of bots and still no memory issues<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect maybe something to do with scripted attachments<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its just wierd with older mono its way less problematic<br />
[11:49] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they have scripted AOs, that's about it<br />
[11:49] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: (the bots)<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: are they NPC or libomv bots?<br />
[11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: both<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya it doesnt suprise me either way<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: when i test at Sisyphus<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant make it happen with bots eitehr<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and usually it takes about 24+ hours<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the first 12 hours seem normal<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: then all the sudden memory will start climbing and never let go<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Something involving the script engine perhaps?<br />
[11:51] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: maybe 3.99 doesn't have the problem<br />
[11:51] Jim Jackson: we were having high memory use with windows on the last few Osgrid builds, a lot of HG travelers and some were there for hours copying items<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i guess its not completely surpising, mono is in flux at the moment<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: a lot is going to change<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: well dahlia like i said on my personall regions im running mono 4<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and its not a problem there either<br />
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: mono will change a lot now that MS has open sourced some of its .net stuff.<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: its mostly the heavily trafficed plazas that experience it<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: possible having the content cached might help<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: the plazas get a lot of new people every day<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: especially this region<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: being a big shopping zone<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we get a lot of HG visitors who have never been here before<br />
[11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I was suggesting the problem may have cropped up between 3.99 and 4.0<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: maybe but if it did<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: For not having much to talk about today we still managed to kill the hour.<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i cant make it happen on my own regions<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is odd for sure<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: hehe Ya Andrew<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: always stuff to talk about<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I'm digging around in the offline IM code trying to find where it does the message retrieval.<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Take your time andrew<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: anyway, sofar not much luck. other buggy part is the friends online in HG. mabey fixt with 0.8.2<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see anything in there that would prevent message retrieval regardless of the source of the IM.<br />
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i tested multiple times and i always get the IM delivered from outside<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well my avatar don;t get it on osgrid too<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if you can build code I would suggest adding debug statements to find out 1) if the messages are being retrieved, and 2) whether it does try delivering them.<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: need to test more. on other osgrid sim<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya I recall testing it and it worked for me<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not cgood in the code part<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: which sort of lends to something being misconfigured maybe<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, did you trying clearing stored offline IMs and try again? Sometimes bad data can get stuck in a table and needs manual clearing.<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but i also recall looking at your config richardus<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and not seeing anything obvious<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but that doesnt mean something isnt right<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ive been known to miss stuff :)<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, don't need to be that much up on coding to add a few debug statements.<br />
[11:58] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hg messages for me come through gatekeeper, i dont recall any settings for that in richardus' mantis post<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: There was one service line that was commented out in RiRa's config but someone already pointed that out.<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sofar i know the other configs where fine. i need to check it on quite day again<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Its one thing about OS that bothers me at times. It does a poor job of telling you when a feature isn't properly configured.<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: or when a feature isn't configured at all.<br />
[12:01] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: Sorry to change subject, but can someone help me with exporting a gimp image in .r32 format?<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew?<br />
[12:01] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: It appears to no longer be supported in Gimp<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: hes our resident Gimp-expert<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure if it is supported in GIMP. I've seen the extension before but not in GIMP.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I must admit i still prefer photoshop 7 from 2001<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:02] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: I see it referenced it in places, but real info is scarce<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: maybe an add-on?<br />
[12:02] Shez Oyen: There might be a plug in for GIMP<br />
[12:02] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: I prefer free. lol<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Joe, I don't think it ever was supported natively. There may be a third party add on for it.<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks flüstert: Joe, what version of GIMP are you using and in what operating system?<br />
[12:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i would never use anything but photoshop lol<br />
[12:02] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: I've been thinking plugin, but can't find one.<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you have console access, use .png<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: worked for me in the past<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks checks the GIMP plug-in repositories.<br />
[12:03] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: I've looked for it in 2.8.2 and 2.8.10 without success.<br />
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Joe, I did a quick search and found this -> https://code.google.com/p/gimp-dds/source/detail?r=32<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Joe, I'm part of the GIMP development community, btw.<br />
[12:04] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: My problem is exporting from Gimp. I get steps in my terrain using .png<br />
[12:04] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye all :)<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye dahlia, compression high ?<br />
[12:04] Shez Oyen: BB Dahlia<br />
[12:04] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002 takes note of Andrew's experience.<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, it is about that time isn't it.<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: have to get a bike ride in<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ive been slacking<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: diet has sucked away all my energy<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: nebeadin, I need to get more guitar practice in. I've been slacking a bit on that score. :)<br />
[12:05] Shez Oyen: Have fun!<br />
[12:05] Joe.Radik @joeradik.com:8002: Thanks Andrew. I will look further. Exactly the advice I was hoping for.<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: bah... I was trying to type nebadon.<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br />
[12:05] Shez Oyen: score.. he made a pun<br />
[12:05] Shez Oyen: haha<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys, talk soon<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be on irc in a bit anyone needs me<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: if not same time next week :)<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Enjoy your ride, nebadon<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: thanks cya<br />
[12:06] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
</pre><br />
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<br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-06-02Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-022015-10-25T22:53:34Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:06] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: robert, have you seen my mantis about parcel lines?<br />
[11:06] Sarah Kline: I dont see Neb on IRC or Hiro so maybe we have our own meeting :)<br />
[11:07] Fearghus McMahon kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.66 m).<br />
[11:07] Robert Adams: I did see that... not sure if it is some problem with the extended packets for larger regions or what<br />
[11:07] Fearghus McMahon kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.06 m).<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: We have still robert sarah<br />
[11:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: they went away after i disabled the new update by distance feature<br />
[11:08] Robert Adams: the problem with the 256 view distance for adjacent regions is probably a problem with child regions being different than home regions<br />
[11:08] Fearghus McMahon: hi all<br />
[11:08] Robert Adams: I'll have time to look at that stuff this weekend<br />
[11:08] Sarah Kline: thats exactly what I mean Richard<br />
[11:08] Sheera Khan: Hi Fear :-)<br />
[11:08] Sheera Khan silent mode on<br />
[11:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi fear<br />
[11:09] Robert Adams just stepped away to make a donation to OSGrid<br />
[11:10] Robert Adams: back<br />
[11:10] Fearghus McMahon: wb<br />
[11:11] Sarah Kline: wb<br />
[11:11] Robert Adams: so, other than a few little problems, OpenSim is running great?<br />
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: no bugs, only featyres :)<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nah.. i think it can run betetr. still to maney (scripting) problems i not see in SL. i think Opensim LSL is just slow<br />
[11:11] Robert Adams: the script engine is at the top of most people's lists?<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: testing now with higher minimum thread setting for xengine<br />
[11:12] BlueWall Slade kommt in Chat-Reichweite (7.65 m).<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: see if KFM is doing still weird then<br />
[11:12] Sarah Kline: there was talk of overhauling it?<br />
[11:12] Fearghus McMahon: well there is one big nuisance....hypergrid friendship request.....wondering how we as users can help with trying to get that fixed. Since it does touch the social part of opensim.<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: HG is bigger thing that need fixing. Friends online. OfflienIM<br />
[11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: also knowing when hg friends are online or offline falls apart when they or you hg tp<br />
[11:13] Robert Adams: HG friends should go away after a time also.... I see error messages on my regions trying to connect to HG frields I haven't seen in a long time (domain doesn't exist any more)<br />
[11:14] Fearghus McMahon: nod that i noticed too...errors cause a grid shut down.<br />
[11:14] Fearghus McMahon: but what you mean with should go away?<br />
[11:14] Fearghus McMahon: no cross grid friends?<br />
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: purge ones with errors - many errors?<br />
[11:14] Robert Adams: cross grid friends are good<br />
[11:15] Shez Oyen: Yes.. maybe afte a half dozen fails.. ask if the person wants to remove the friend<br />
[11:15] Robert Adams: I mean I am friended to fred@myhomenet.net and a year later myhomenet.net doesn't resolve any more... and never will again... what to do with that friend link?<br />
[11:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i wouldnt wand a friend to be removed automaticaly if there was an error, what if it was temp or a grid that isnt always online? how would opensim know? should be down to the user to remove friends that dont exist anymore<br />
[11:16] Sarah Kline: cross grid IM's are good but friends seems a lot of difficulties<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: SHez, until you send offlineIM. it gets torted in my database but never send to avatar. thats wit 0.8.1<br />
[11:16] Fearghus McMahon: the ones I run into most is that currently when you get a friendship request whileat another grid....you need to open a second viewer...login at your homegrid...and you might get the friendship request there to to accept......otherwise the next time you login the friend is poof gone again<br />
[11:16] Robert Adams: ya... one error getting to a friend shouldn't cause delete.... but after a while....<br />
[11:17] Dahlia Trimble: maybe it shouldnt be an error<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Feargus. TP home accept frioendship and then logout must work. i dont know if people logout before the TP home and accept the friendship<br />
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: maybe a failed count in the table, and some process to scan that on occasion<br />
[11:18] Fearghus McMahon: people normally accept a friendship where they are at the time<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No feargus, you accept the final friednship when you at your home grid<br />
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: yeah, the mechanism should go through the gatekeeper somehow to allow instant acceptance<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tit's 2 step friendship in HG<br />
[11:18] Dahlia Trimble: if my grid failed for a few months and then came back (osgrid) I'd still like my friends to work<br />
[11:18] Fearghus McMahon: the only work around is stay at where you are....accept friendship there......open a second viewer...login at home....and sometimes need to do that twice.....accept the friendship and then it usually sticks<br />
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: shouldn't really have to go back<br />
[11:18] Fearghus McMahon: but<br />
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: ++ Dahlia<br />
[11:19] Fearghus McMahon: that only works for one request at a time<br />
[11:19] Fearghus McMahon: if you get 2 then the second one is in vain<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Bluewall. yes but thats the only way it works. i dont think it's good idea to login with second viewer on homegrid. just TP home<br />
[11:19] Fearghus McMahon: the problem usually seems that only one of the 2 records in the friends table is created<br />
[11:19] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: all i have to do is accept on the remote grid, then either go home and accept again, or accept next time i log in, i dont understand the need for two viewers<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Owww. thats bad<br />
[11:20] Fearghus McMahon: the popup will not come<br />
[11:20] Fearghus McMahon: also i think it matters if you went directly from home to the other grid...or had some hops in between.......not 100% sure about that<br />
[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, the HG part need to work much better.<br />
[11:21] Fearghus McMahon: I've been able to manually create the table records...and that fixes it partly.....but you don't have the correct random hexnumber then.....which might be why online/offline doesn't work...or part of it<br />
[11:22] Fearghus McMahon: i don't know by far enough of the code to know how the communication works ;)<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks kommt in Chat-Reichweite (6.86 m).<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I distracted myself and almost forgot about the meeting. 25 minutes later I remember again. :)<br />
[11:25] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi andrew<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Alicia<br />
[11:25] Fearghus McMahon: heya Andrew<br />
[11:25] Sarah Kline: hi Andrew<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Fearghus.<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Sarah.<br />
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, everyone else. :)<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew<br />
[11:26] Shez Oyen: :)<br />
[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Have I missed part of the meeting or has it not started yet?<br />
[11:27] Sarah Kline: just been talking about HG problems<br />
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: oh ok<br />
[11:27] Fearghus McMahon: just me mentioning hg friendship requests ;)<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did bluewall did you got time to check your results with offlineIM HG ?<br />
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: no, I rebuilt my server and it is sitting there turned off most of the time :/<br />
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: have been very busy the past few weeks<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok<br />
[11:30] Fearghus McMahon: offline hgim? you mean cause you only receive them when you arrive at the grid where the offline originates?<br />
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: Robert Adams, I have been following the Macaroons project since you mentioned it a while back.<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Feargush. the OfflineIM is send to my grid. stored in database. but never send to avatar<br />
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: They have libraries now for C#, python, etc.<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, how is the IM recipient stored in the db for HG offline IMs?<br />
[11:33] Fearghus McMahon: oh ok so it is stored in your database....interesting<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: maybe your avatar carries a different id when you login?<br />
[11:34] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i tried to reproduce the problem richardus has but it works ok for me<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if i remeber , yes. grid is offline. http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7531<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: like you are on a 192.168.*** net and the im addresses to your outside id?<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Alice OfflineIM V2 ?<br />
[11:34] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yes<br />
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if the recipient for an IM isn't stored as a simple UUID I would suspect that is why you don't see the IMs when you login.<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I know it's failing for more. offcorse port 8003 if im right is blocked from outside. but offlineIM dont use that port. otherwise time for change<br />
[11:35] Fearghus McMahon: does the offline im stay in the database Richardus?<br />
[11:35] Robert Adams: Bluewall... haven't looked at Macaroons for a bit but I'd love to use them.... if they are creating libraries I'll be all over it :)<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh wait i can check the database<br />
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: im_offline<br />
[11:36] BlueWall Slade: Robert, they are<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Principial and fromID are in the database<br />
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: I think that is a really good way to secure HG communications<br />
[11:37] Robert Adams: my weekend project is separating physics from the main OpenSimulator process space... I'm creating BulletThrift (using the THrift protocol system) to move the C++ part of Bullet into a different process<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes fgeargush it stay in the database<br />
[11:37] Robert Adams: that will allow me to test the new versions of Bullet as well as the multi-threaded versions<br />
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: ohhh, it will run in it's own thread?<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it did aleady bvluewall ?<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I never seem to get an answer to the question about how the HG IM's are stored in a DB.<br />
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: yes, I remember now<br />
[11:38] Robert Adams: In its own process... potentially on a different computer<br />
[11:38] Robert Adams: we'll see how it performs....<br />
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: RiRa, I sede nothing about our ip or fqdn in the im, so it must be another issues.<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have 4 fields PrinipialID, fromID , jMessage and TMstamp<br />
[11:39] BlueWall Slade: Robert, will the moses stuff tripp you up?<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, You need to check that the IM's are stored with a UUID only that will match the intended recipient.<br />
[11:39] Robert Adams: not at all... I'm working with them.... they are following the existing physics module interfaces so they will just plug in<br />
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: ok, cool<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: If they are stored with just the recipients UUID you should get the offline IM's.<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: If you dont get offline IM's from HG users more digging would need to be done as to why. Perhaps the offline IM system doesn't like messages that come from a user not in the grid.<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: depends if opensim read the json file. it did not get send and i never got answhere if there's debug info available<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew. i think thats the porblem. i know it failed for more grid owners<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: suggestion while ago wehre opensim cannot find the HG user<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I don't have an HG set up so I can't test. Without knowing what an HG offline IM looks like in the DB I can't offer much additional help.<br />
[11:41] Fearghus McMahon: does anybody know if the random number that is stored with hg friends is actually used to verify the comunication?<br />
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the json (message) is posted in the mantis. the other 3 dields are pretty simple<br />
[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the mantis #?<br />
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: hmm, that looks like xml to me<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: in the past i used the php version and that worked. but not want to runa webserver only for that<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7531<br />
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: If the message is there, then ther must be a failure to trigger it when you login for some reason<br />
[11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: what random number fear? whats the table name u mean<br />
[11:45] Fearghus McMahon: friends table.....with hypergrid friends it stores 4 values. uuid, grid uri, avatar name, random hex number<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes. only message in opensim log (OpenSim.OfflineIM.OfflineIMRegionModule [OfflineIM.V2]: Retrieving stored messages for ) <uuid> thats all<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, after you login you don't get the offline IM's but are the offline IM's still removed automatically from the DB upon login?<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the stay in the database<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: RiRa, you do see that in the console?<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: otherwise i could not look at it right now<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have not running the grid. so no.<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhmmwait<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: OpenSim.OfflineIM.OfflineIMRegionModule [OfflineIM.V2]: Retrieving stored messages for <uuid><br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that is from console but i picked it out of the log file<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: ok<br />
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: log = console right ?<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: yes<br />
[11:50] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 8de65a8: 2015-06-01 20:05:51 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Should be easy enough to determine why the IM's aren't being delivered. There aren't many lines of code involved.<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: more debug options would be usefull to for future problems<br />
[11:54] Robert Adams: I need to run... see you all in IRC<br />
[11:54] Robert Adams: bye bye<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye robert<br />
[11:54] Sarah Kline: Bye Robert thanks<br />
[11:54] Fearghus McMahon: tc robert<br />
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: bye Robert<br />
[11:55] Ezio Auditore47 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.91 m).<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: OpenSim/Addons/OfflineIM/Remote/OfflineIMServiceRemoteConnector.cs<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Must be a problem in the GetMessages() routine in OpenSim/Addons/OfflineIM/Remote/OfflineIMServiceRemoteConnector.cs<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dont forget it's V2 offlineIM<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I did notice that in the console message you mentioned.<br />
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I need to go too, bye all :)<br />
[11:57] Sarah Kline: byes<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: me too<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: bye & take care all<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Is it just a few grids where the HG offline IMs aren't delivered or all?<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: If it only happens in some, another thing to check is the format of the database table.<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: s/format/structure/<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i did only test it with mine , osgrid, metro and bubblez i im right. can only check my database<br />
[11:59] Master Dubrovna: Good day all<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye master<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: You need to run a debugging session see where the routine is failing.<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i asked for debug info on the console. sofar i know no option<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Or add in extra debug statements to output more info to the console to let you see what its doing.<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes. but then we need to wait for next release i think. i cannot add it<br />
[12:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: could u post your ini config for messages to that mantis<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: with PHP it where more easy to get it working because more debug info<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: so you don't have a coder on staff. bummer.<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: [messaging] ?<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't do any work involving HG so I'm not set up to test anything HG related.<br />
[12:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yes<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only not hgave mutelist active because it's V2 and no mute.php or other way to point it too<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: just posted the config<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Implementing a mutelist is one of the things on my todo list.<br />
[12:05] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: also the messaging section in gridcommon.ini<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not saying much<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-05-26Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-262015-10-25T22:53:12Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:02] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Huhu Rich, Huhu Neb :-)<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb, sheera,m<br />
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: Hello<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello :)<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i remembered to restart the region today<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: just in time too it finished starting up with like 1 minute to spare<br />
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: light attendnace today it seems, maybe people catching up from the holiday<br />
[11:06] BlueWall Slade missed it<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: Aine I saw you posted on divas mantis thread that your inventory is working good now?<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: that is good news<br />
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: ++<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, it's extremely fast and so far not a single case of it hitching on me<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and that's with about 30-40 logins<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: hello Skye and Dahlia :)<br />
[11:08] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so I think if it were going to happen it would have by now<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya when i made 3000 test links in my inventory<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it took almos 3 hours to get to about 95% downloaded<br />
[11:08] Skye Goodfellow: Good afternoon.<br />
[11:08] Pebbles Flintstone: good afternoon<br />
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: Hello<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: after the fix took about 1.5 minutes<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hello Pebbles<br />
[11:08] Skye Goodfellow: Perhaps I can get some help from one of you?<br />
[11:08] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: AFK for a while ...<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well....in my *own* self-hosted region 21k inventory took <120 seconds to fetch<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: But i did it other not smooth movement problem. like i have seen with terrai to. something seems to be in the whole opensim code. with parameters fast my prim is not moving smooth. tried to view it in video http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7580<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs previously on the rare occasion it didn't hang it would take 20+ momutes<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so it's a drastic improvement<br />
[11:09] RegionReady v4: Region Ready Processed on SeaPrior Plaza @ 2015-05-26T18:09:50.8279920Z UTC<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: hmm it doesnt seem that much different than SL Richarus<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Richardus, I saw that but was afraid to post any "observations" since I didn't want Diva to get pissed off at me<br />
[11:09] Pebbles Flintstone: Is anything up with the asset servers? a lot of people at LBSA are reporting missing things in inventory<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what have diva todo with that. it's the problem i have seen and found in more parts. it seems to like me because it's coming always back<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: heh its ok to post Observations Aine, I dont ink diva was upset with you on that mantis<br />
[11:10] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: llSetPrimitiveParams* isn't meant to be used for smooth movement<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was someone else who was posting nonsense really<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well apparently if you report what you experience it's "chatter" and makes the report be ignore<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *ignored<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: well that mantis got out of hand<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, KeyFramneMotion start to annoy me. becasue opensim scripting is not as good as SL so it just works only short right. and pos is reliable send the same amount of updates.<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was like 8000 comments<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the 2nd one with 4 posts in it?<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: that was a continuation of the first one<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and there no other good movement commands.<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, the new one from AI<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: maybe I didnt see that one I don't know<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: AI is trying to provide details about what is happening but apparently that's not desired<br />
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: what is the # Aine<br />
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/my_view_page.php ??<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: well try not to take things personally, just need to be objective and concise is all<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7567<br />
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: oops<br />
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: yeah, ok thanks<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Diva: "It's absolutely unhelpful to dump a bunch of random observations or beliefs regarding a particular commit. The signal to noise ratio becomes very low. The more I see reporters wandering off the main issue in a mantis, the less I pay attention. You may feel that you are helping by adding more information, but information is not always helpful, and in many cases it is actually unhelpful because it adds noise and distracts from the real issue.<br />
"<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: well if you have something that pertains to the problem at hand then its fine to post it, but I kind of have to agree with diva on that paritcular post, it seemed like Ai was posting info thats not really related to the problem<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but don't take what diva says personally either<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats just her opinion<br />
[11:15] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: She was probably a bit annoyed at the time. I would need to take that comment with a grain of salt.<br />
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: there was more ... So if your goal is for me to pay attention, please do what I say. Again, I'm *this* close to stop paying attention to this particular mantis if people don't stay on focus of what has been originally described by Ai.<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: it is not the rule of law<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: and again her frustration mostly carrying over from that gigantically long out of control mantis<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's shame we don';t have ketframemotion command that works with coordinates. move from .. to ... would make things so much more easy<br />
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: The purpose of the mantis is to collect information, but it is good to really focus on the single issue to narrow things down to a particular spot.<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 whispers: in that "out of control"<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: movetotarget would be good. if it hold's the stable speed and not start and stop slow<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in that "out of control" Mantis we were supplying information because Justin had specifically requested it a year ago when we were first discussing the issue<br />
[11:17] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: ~ hallo ~<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the nothing happened with it for many, many months<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so then it all looks like spam<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yea I know, just try not to take it personally Aine<br />
[11:17] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: she is not saying that you are not allowed to<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: she is just saying that when a mantis gets flooded with comments<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: developers tend to stop looking<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and its counter productive<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: likely why justin stopped looking<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: to be frank<br />
[11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: tl;dr effect<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: devs will gripe<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: just something we have to deal with<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if you have trouble with a particular dev<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: you can always come to me<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and let me be the buffer<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you know I am good at that<br />
[11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: we seldom get paid so we deserve to gripe :)<br />
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: in a case where it is said that commit # so and so I see this thing happeing now, there should be attached a git bisect log<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: a book "understanding devs" for dummies could be usefull sometimes :)<br />
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: Actually we never get paid<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's just frustrating to try to be a useful reporter, to then be asked for more specific details, and then have your ass chewed out for providing too much information<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so take your pick<br />
[11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: well on rare occasion some get paid<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: well I dont think her intention was to chew anyone out<br />
[11:20] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: what hapens in OSG ?<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ?<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: diva just isnt the most diplomatic person<br />
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: Aine - can you team with someone that knows how to maneuver around git?<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: she is very straight forward<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and lacking time<br />
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: You have a knack for spotting things<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I could<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: just don't take it personally<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but what's the point at this juncture?<br />
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: but, (don't be offended) you sometimes drift to other areas.<br />
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: << that is simply looking for an answer I guess.<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have open *serious* Mantis reports from 2+ years ago that are still open and as far as I know have never been looked at<br />
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: But this is all complicated as hell<br />
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: and it really helps to narrow things down to a particular spot if at all possible...<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: Because we are all very busy ...<br />
[11:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Aine, there are very few of us and most of us do this in our spare time and are unpaid. We can't spend time on every mantis<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: And when we ahve time to dig into this, it really helps to have very concise reports that can focus us into the trouble spot.<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: that's why it's open source<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so the community can help<br />
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: I am fortunate to be working in an OpenSim related position right now so I can keep being involved in this, but it is a startup with really limited funds adn I make very little and I usually go 12-18 hours a day<br />
[11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yiks<br />
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice on one hand. Sucks on the other.<br />
[11:24] BlueWall Slade: I suppose others in this field are the same boat, (unless in government funded situations)<br />
[11:25] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I can't focus on anything for 12-18 hours a day for long, my mind just goes elsewhere and I can't stop it<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Did you finaly got your test setup finished bluewall ?<br />
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: So what time we have cna't be spent reading throgh milions of lines of code guided by 500 unrelated comments in a mantis.<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It's hard this days to focus on anything<br />
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea there are a lot more bugs than there are devs<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: lol Dahlia, me too sometimes<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bugs piling up...<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: we accept good patches<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: we allow users to create documentation on the wiki.<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: we are here almost every week.<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: But ...<br />
[11:26] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and if patches aren't so good we usually try to help people make them better<br />
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: back to the main topic. Aine, you are good at finding bugs and some are good at debugging.<br />
[11:27] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: unfortunately sometimes this is viewed in a negative light, but it really isn't<br />
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: teamwork is needed so we can all move forward.<br />
[11:27] BlueWall Slade: I have been tlaking to some about Hypergrid issues.<br />
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: And I am thinking about how we can make teams to debug and focus on trouble spots.<br />
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: So, any suggestions about how we can organize debugging teams?<br />
[11:28] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm sure SL has quite a few Jira entries which are never addressed ;)<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: yea there is probably about 1000 open bug reports on mantis right now<br />
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oops dahlia<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: some are dupes of course<br />
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: HAH, the 4096 bug I reported there was just closed "Will not fix"<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sadly yes dahlia<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: The first step is getting people that know enough about the source tree<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I wish I had more time myself, I dont have the time I used to<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: trying to prevent homelessness<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: no kidding<br />
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: really<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I have been really damn close a few times<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: LL never fixt the UI scaling bug. TPV some did. but LL, put head in the sand. and im afraid new grids make the same mistakes<br />
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: I like the way the Linux Kernel devs do<br />
[11:30] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: how is that?<br />
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: they have (I think) people that are working in their different areas, then people submit patches to them<br />
[11:31] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: are there some changes in the config-files in latest Version ????<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi goes into Linux mode and starts screaming and cursing at everyone<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: Linus mode*<br />
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: Linus has the repo, I think<br />
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: we have more than one committer which is good.<br />
[11:31] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya but they also have a lot more devs<br />
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: but, they ahve that flow that seems to work<br />
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: yeah, that too Dahlia<br />
[11:31] BlueWall Slade: We have run off some good ones in the past<br />
[11:31] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: are there some changes in the config-files in latest Version ????<br />
[11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br />
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: Hi Alicia<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what version did you use before ?<br />
[11:32] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: somehow it's a status symbol to have one's name as a linux contributor, not so much for us unfortunately :/<br />
[11:32] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: i mean the latest Version<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi contemplates a name change<br />
[11:32] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: 2 Days ago<br />
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: Dahlia, I was using web to dev applications for a good while before everybody wanted it :)<br />
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: Maybe this is a little more complicates and takes longer to get more users?<br />
[11:33] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: ok#<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: complicated**<br />
[11:34] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: i make Update when ever it comes, but since the latest its fuck up !<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did you compared the ini's<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you would need to diff your ini files against the latest Basil<br />
[11:35] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: yes<br />
[11:35] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: thats my question<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I cant really think of any recent breaking ini changes though<br />
[11:35] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: are there changes in the .ini's<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not since OSSL perms got moved<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's the last ini change I can think of<br />
[11:35] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: ok, thanks<br />
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: other than a couple tweaks to values in opensimdefaults.ini<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: last time I changed any region ini was for the ossl perms<br />
[11:36] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: i can login to my region<br />
[11:36] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: but TP from Lbsa to my region isnt posible<br />
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: 0.8/0 to 0.8.1 I think there were some additions to the ini files<br />
[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since then, too, Andrew<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 0.8 to 0.8.1 need new ini files<br />
[11:37] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: i now<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but lasts change that required a user in adjustment was when osslEnable.ini was added<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: or at least compare and add the misisng parts or replace<br />
[11:38] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: 0.8.1 is History lool<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not for me<br />
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I ran diffs on the ini and found some new settings. Most everything else stayed the same.<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: what exactly are you experiencing Basil?<br />
[11:38] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: cause i cant TP to my Region from Lbsa or from Wright<br />
[11:39] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: on the new version<br />
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: What version are you running?<br />
[11:40] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: the latest<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: latest released code or git master?<br />
[11:40] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: 0.8.2 bla bla<br />
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[11:40] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: .net<br />
[11:40] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: WIN -stupid<br />
[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Grrr... darn cat is calling for me again. *sighs* bbiab<br />
[11:41] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev abb3bb6: 2015-05-23 08:14:28 -0400 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: last time i tried to tp from here to my grid it failed, i had to go to another os region first before i could tp out<br />
[11:42] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: TRUE<br />
[11:42] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: !!!!!!<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hmm are you on DHCP Basil<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: does your IP address change a lot?<br />
[11:42] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: no<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ok just wondering<br />
[11:42] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: my IP is constant<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: there have been some problems with that<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I cant think of any reason in configuration why you wouldnt be able to get from Lbsa or Wright Plaza<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: that is wierd<br />
[11:43] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: ok, we'll see...it will be fixt<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yea let me know how that goes<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: The only time i hav eseen Teleport problems where when i change domain name settings. parts on internet where still remember the old settings. day later it woirked fine<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats the DHCP problem i was thinking of Richardus<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: its a problem with newer monos<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I am contemplating downgrading mono<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there seem to be other issues maybe as well on these plazas<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: with very high memory usage on mono 4<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: which is wierd<br />
[11:44] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: now i run my own Grid, works fine...<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: because none of my own regions do it<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: only the plazas<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: must be something with high traffic<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've been experiencing an interesting new HG-bug.....if a script in the region I'm visiting throws an error *I* see it, even though it's not my script<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: hmm have you experienced that on viewers other than Firestorm?<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: haven't tested that<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: would be good if you can<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hmm, i think i have seen that in SL to. but not sure<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I have a feeling that is either a firestorm bug<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: or something in the newer code<br />
[11:47] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I haven't tried mono 4 but 3.99.x had the best memory use I've ever seen in any mono so far<br />
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and i use FS in SL<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: that might effect all the latest v3 based viewers<br />
[11:47] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: Firestorm Viewer nows not mutch about Opensim lool<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think its happening with Replex or Singularity though<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its likely something changed on the newer LL code<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that we are not accounting for<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: maybe serialization or something changed<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: something out of order<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so everyone sees it<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I know they are changing stuff in some radical ways<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately they dont always announce they are either<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i get the feeling the try to implement some sansar stuff in SL or at least the look and feel<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: so we find out after stuff starts acting funny<br />
[11:51] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: what about Melanie Thielker, whats her profesion in OSG ?<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid?<br />
[11:51] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: yes<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: she is Avination, not OSG<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: She just volunteers to help out like all of us do<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya she has her own grid Avination<br />
[11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: she's helping out with the asset servers, if that's what you mean<br />
[11:52] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: but i saw developing at files<br />
[11:52] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: from her<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: you mean OpenSim in general?<br />
[11:52] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: yes<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie is one of the top commiters to opensimulator<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: she hasnt been as active lately but she has commited a good bit of code<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: shes worked on a lot of stuff<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: xengine, permissions issues<br />
[11:53] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: but in Avination is mutch trouble<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhuh. i hav eread<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: don't know I doubt many of us here use Avination<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: Avination is serving a nitch purpose<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i looked there in the past. need to admit not loked much there anymore<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its definitley not really representative to this project as a whole<br />
[11:54] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: ok#<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its competing directly with SL<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it looked empty there<br />
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: what different grids do is not really much to do with OpenSim<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: except prims<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus most OpenSim grids look empty<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt mean they arent being used though<br />
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: OpenSim is just the core "operating" system the everybody modifies for their onwn ends.<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, I've seen script exceptions for scripts that aren't mine in 0.8.0 so it isn't a new issue.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: heck i got o SL<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and i'll be damned if i can find anyone<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that isnt just standing there doing nothing<br />
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: Contributions come back from different workd like Avination to teh project though.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: honestly I have more luck finding people on OSgrid than I do in SL<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Andrew: I don't recall having experienced it in the past although I could be mistaken.....been seeing it a lot in the last few weeks<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hmm, you do sometyhing wrong neb :O<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: well to be fair most of the places in SL with people<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i wouldnt touch with a 10 foot prim<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: not my kind of fun<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 hands Neb a box od surgical gloves<br />
[11:57] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they have 64 meter prims in SL now :)<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: most of the places that seem interesting to me are void of people<br />
[11:57] Basil.Sosides @basil.selfhost.me:8002: thanks a lot for Info, see you next wekk...bye<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: try a 200 foot prim neb<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: no problem Basil<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: bye<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: see ya<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (prims are measured in meters ;))<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: ohm meters<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, I've seen it recently and I'm mostly using Singularity. Not sure why I was seeing the errors. Could be a viewer bug that shows everyone the debug channel regardless of whose script it was that tossed a debug message.<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: resistance is futile<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah meters, that's readable<br />
[11:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: could even be a "feature" of some kind<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: inteersting....so if you're seeing it with Sing then it's more likely something in the new V3 code<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or something that got borked recently in OS code<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I only seem to see it when HGed so far though<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be. I run Singularity Alpha most of the time but I use Phoenix Firestorm sometimes as Sing messed up voice chat (yet again)<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: AIne, I'd say its more likely viewer related as I see it in 0.8.0 OS<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: seen it with 0.8.0<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...well I'm off to try to do something vaguely productive...have a good week all<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ok see you Aine<br />
[12:03] BlueWall Slade: take care Aine<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I have code changes to make to a project but I can't use XP on my machine to build the code so I've been trying to find a way around that.<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew XP in virtual machine ?<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh you use linux ?<br />
[12:05] UUID Speaker: Prodyck.Theas @ipsofacto.ddns.net: 74c854bd-98ff-42f9-94d6-c5a13d2caba2<br />
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yup. Most of the time I'm in Linux.<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: still can use virtualbox with xp<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: VM perhaps but I'd have to copy over the compiler tools, and the source code for the project and a support library.<br />
[12:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye all :)<br />
[12:06] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia<br />
[12:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye dahlia<br />
[12:06] Sarah Kline: bye<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: bye, Dahlia<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-05-19Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-192015-10-25T22:52:34Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hello<br />
[11:02] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh. hi neb. your wheels are stolenm<br />
[11:02] Kayaker Magic: I see the wheels<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh, then the mesh errors are the wheels<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: don't load here<br />
[11:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: probably your cache<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I see them<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: grid -> wright -> sandbox -> wright where my route today<br />
[11:03] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I see them<br />
[11:04] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:04] McLaren MP4-12C v1.41: BURNOUT<br />
[11:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:04] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 coughs<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: didn't your mother ever tell you to play with your motorized toys outdoors, Neb?<br />
[11:05] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: graphics preference changes crashed the viewer<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but still no wheels<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. It seems very laggy here<br />
[11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: wierd<br />
[11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lower draw distance a bit here<br />
[11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: might help<br />
[11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: very congested area :)<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not so weird. very old bug/problem with opensim and mesh + teleporting<br />
[11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm already at 64m draw distance<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: problem is only why ?<br />
[11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: usually i only experience that when i have similar content on the 2 grids<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: from what I hear its a viewer problem<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: maybe only Singularity / Replex issue<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh, thats my default this days 64meters. for some reason higher makes it less smooth<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mabey..<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I see part of car<br />
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: I saw the whole car right after I first got here. No problems<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: maybe never finished rezzing?<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br />
[11:08] Entering god mode, level 255<br />
[11:09] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no Justin today?<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: not sure<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so far no, he is not on skype<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: though he hasnt been on skype for many weeks<br />
[11:09] vegaslon plutonian is reminded to get on skype to see if any messages<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: just tested movement with parameters fast and not_at_target. but it dont move smooth and get steady interupted :( so no smooth movement<br />
[11:10] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I log into skype about once every 3 months lol<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ketframemotion is not reliable enough or its opensim LSL.<br />
[11:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I dont have any expereience with Keyframe motion<br />
[11:12] Ci Sense: oooh it's a motor show ... hi all<br />
[11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: me either, but I have some physical thingies that move very well<br />
[11:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I should probably try it out one of these days<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: can anyone shed any light on HG IM issues were someone can IM you from another grid but when you attempt to respond it bounces back with "user offline", yet if I then tp to a different region in RG I can then respond<br />
[11:12] vegaslon plutonian: find smooth is a relative thing, the same thing will be jerky one day and smooth the next<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it works good / fine if you dont do complex things.<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: any news about the HG offlineIM ?<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks wonders what the sort of orangey pyramid is for near the back end of the car<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew mesh error = not loading<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i see 4 of them<br />
[11:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have not heard anything Richardus<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[11:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: though I havent had any time to really follow up with it<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, now I see a ton of them<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: click the car and possible you get 4<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: a ton ?<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: /eep<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: 20 or more as a guess? I didn't have time to count them before they disappeared again<br />
[11:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea cache gets wierd some times<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/McLaren_MP4-12C-001_001.png<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, happened again. Count was closer to 40<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/McLaren_MP4-12C-001_002.png<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/McLaren_MP4-12C-001_003.png<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/McLaren_MP4-12C-001_004.png<br />
[11:15] Hiro Protagonist: o/<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: should be able to take a copy<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: im not quite done with it yet<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but it works pretty good<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: whats cool is the tires<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Phew. Just remembered I'm supposed to be bidding on an eBay item. Still 16 minutes left to go so I haven't lost out (yet)<br />
[11:16] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:16] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: \&<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I see part of the main body. No tires<br />
[11:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: mesh tires that actually spin<br />
[11:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: as they turn too<br />
[11:17] Ci Sense: looks road worthy to me<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: how do you drive from the backseat :P :)<br />
[11:17] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:18] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea needs a little work still<br />
[11:18] Ci Sense: does it come in OSG yellow?<br />
[11:18] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:18] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: should be able to make it any color you want<br />
[11:19] vegaslon plutonian: that using materials for shine?<br />
[11:19] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nothing fancy though<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi robert<br />
[11:19] Ci Sense: nice respray<br />
[11:19] Basil Sosides: good Evening all<br />
[11:19] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[11:19] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its just a solid white texture<br />
[11:19] Robert Adams: hello all<br />
[11:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hello Robert<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Robert<br />
[11:20] Ci Sense: I see it has GPS too ... HG enabled?<br />
[11:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:21] valerie llauke: grrrr lost all of myself ..<br />
[11:22] vegaslon plutonian: that would be kind of cool, a car that when you get going fast enough it teleports you<br />
[11:23] Chris Small: Anyone else feeling this lag?<br />
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I was Chris.<br />
[11:23] Chris Small: Apparently misogyny is illegal. I wonder what bitches pushed that law through.<br />
[11:23] Basil Sosides: yes<br />
[11:23] Ci Sense: chat lag, yes<br />
[11:23] valerie llauke: yes<br />
[11:23] Robert Adams: My chat is very laggy but I presumed it was my network connection<br />
[11:23] Dahlia Trimble: lol cant move<br />
[11:24] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 6a48c87: 2015-05-13 15:59:58 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:24] Chris Small: Seems to be taking me time to move as well. Though my internet is fine, 72mbps download.<br />
[11:24] valerie llauke: i see no buildings<br />
[11:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hmm ya<br />
[11:24] valerie llauke: when i cant move .. i just dont<br />
[11:25] valerie llauke: :P<br />
[11:25] Robert Adams: I can't move either<br />
[11:25] Chris Small: Its this region specifically (or estate)<br />
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Must be the place. My frame rate is only about 36fps<br />
[11:25] Ci Sense: sim FPS is about 10 .. no way it will be enough for a VR set<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: frozen too<br />
[11:25] Sarah Kline: its my hair<br />
[11:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: wierd console looks ok<br />
[11:25] Hiro Protagonist: I seem stuck too<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: laggy now<br />
[11:25] Chris Small: Was fine yesterday. Maybe it's having issues or could just use a good restart.<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mabey some bad connection problem ?<br />
[11:26] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Neb, if you have access to console do a check for reams and reams of resends<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sim fps is very low neb<br />
[11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hmm ya threads or something<br />
[11:26] Hiro Protagonist: no guess it was laggage<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this is exactly the issue we've been reporting where a single latent viewer will be able to kill a region<br />
[11:26] Chris Small: I dont see why itwould screw up overnight<br />
[11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: well it came back<br />
[11:26] Ci Sense: will OpenSim run at 60/90 fps?<br />
[11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: no errors<br />
[11:26] Chris Small: Ah<br />
[11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i did see a single thread time out<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: physics same it wherre just 5fps. now back to 11<br />
[11:26] valerie llauke: waves hello to everyone<br />
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 3 fps<br />
[11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh just saw a bunch more now<br />
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: stats look terrible<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and 7fps<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's what i where hoping you would say aine<br />
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: we captured lots of data on if and sent it to Justin a few months ago<br />
[11:27] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:27] Dahlia Trimble: time dilation should go down when physics fps goes down yet it stays at 1.0<br />
[11:28] valerie llauke: is it me?<br />
[11:28] Robert Adams: wonder if we'll see Justin back sometime<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if whoever's viewer is latent stays, the sim will eventually hit a point where it is so overwhelmed with resends that it kicks eveyrone<br />
[11:29] Hiro Protagonist: if that is going to happen, we want it to happen now<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: do a check of resends and unackb for users in the region<br />
[11:29] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: looking at the stats no one is standing out<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one will have very, very high numbers<br />
[11:29] Chris Small: Is it me or is the chat skipping more than it should...<br />
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: How can you determine which viewer is causing the problem?<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in the oder of 5k+ per minute they've been here<br />
[11:29] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:29] vegaslon plutonian: know you can bring a server to its knees using the world map, but it does recover eventually if you stop<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I probably should have restarted the region before the meeting<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its using a lot of memory<br />
[11:31] Chris Small: Is anyone here from the US able to check out my region for me? I just want to see how well a UK based server works.<br />
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: I fixed the map thing by increasing MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU<br />
[11:31] Robert Adams: the console can display the output queues I think<br />
[11:31] valerie llauke: wonders why the mettings are in such a heavy spot anyhoo<br />
[11:31] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: im restarting some of the other regions<br />
[11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i think box was swapping<br />
[11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: why it got slow<br />
[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: htop could tell you if its using swap.<br />
[11:32] Ci Sense wonders if the 34,811 objects in this region may be responsible<br />
[11:32] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nah, only 34K :)<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Ci, it is usually better than it is now<br />
[11:32] Dahlia Trimble: I dont have swap on my servers<br />
[11:32] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: this region is using a ton of memory<br />
[11:33] Robert Adams: some people have complained about crashes after running for awhile.... do we have a memory leak?<br />
[11:33] Chris Small: 34k is roughly a 2 to 3gb ram server isnt it?<br />
[11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: MEMORY STATISTICS<br />
Heap allocated to OpenSim : 4361 MB<br />
Last heap allocation rate : 24.016 MB/s<br />
Average heap allocation rate: 33.197 MB/s<br />
Process memory : 7352 MB<br />
[11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i probably should have restarted it<br />
[11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:33] Hiro Protagonist: lmao<br />
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: about like running M$ Word<br />
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but if you never forgot to restart tehre's no fun and new info<br />
[11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: memory leaks away<br />
[11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its very likely xengine<br />
[11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: all the visitors we get here bringing in their scripted attachments<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i would blame mono<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: It would be good to place transient scripts in their own<br />
[11:34] Dahlia Trimble: probably the McLaren scrpts :P<br />
[11:35] BlueWall Slade: that is a problem with the appdomain setting<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: MEMORY STATISTICS<br />
[11:40] Heap allocated to OpenSim : 4361 MB<br />
[11:40] Last heap allocation rate : 24.016 MB/s<br />
[11:40] Average heap allocation rate: 33.197 MB/s<br />
[11:40] Process memory : 7352 MB<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i probably should have restarted it<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:33] Hiro Protagonist: lmao<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:33] BlueWall Slade: about like running M$ Word<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but if you never forgot to restart tehre's no fun and new info<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: memory leaks away<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its very likely xengine<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: all the visitors we get here bringing in their scripted attachments<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i would blame mono<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:34] BlueWall Slade: It would be good to place transient scripts in their own<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:34] Dahlia Trimble: probably the McLaren scrpts :P<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] BlueWall Slade: that is a problem with the appdomain setting<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Basil Sosides: not all<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Hiro Protagonist: yer killin me smalls :p<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] BlueWall Slade: .<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: maybe I should restart it we could relog?<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] BlueWall Slade: chat messages transposed<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: let me restart it come back in like 5 minutes?<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Kayaker Magic: CHAT LAG!<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: sim fps went up slightly with the car bone<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Kayaker Magic: I hear voice<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Hiro Protagonist is bailin'<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Kayaker Magic: I hear voice<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Chris Small: Anyone messed with breedable pets yet?<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok see you in 5<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:35] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...<br />
[11:40] [2015/05/19 11:36] Connected<br />
[11:40] RegionReady v4: Region Ready Processed on Teravus Plaza @ 2015-05-19T18:36:02.7986050Z UTC<br />
[11:40] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...<br />
[11:40] Connected<br />
[11:41] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:41] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...<br />
[11:41] Connected<br />
[11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: much betta<br />
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi<br />
[11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hello<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: everyone logging in at once<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: little laggy<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: memory is a lot better now<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I forgot to restart it before meeting<br />
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: yeah, if we had a way to separate transient scripts from the main appdomain it would be better for high traffic areas<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: The region feels a lot better now<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: something wrong on wright, crashed again. and it's laggy for eme right now<br />
[11:43] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[11:43] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Justin was talking about giving each avatar their own appdomain<br />
[11:43] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and then killing it once they leave<br />
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: yes<br />
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: that is a good solution<br />
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Dang, I'm annoyed that I missed putting in another bid on the item due to being distracted by the meeting. :P<br />
[11:44] valerie llauke: wb everyone<br />
[11:44] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so now that we can chat normally again<br />
[11:44] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: was there anything else anyone wanted to talk about?<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Has anyone experienced issues with particles in a var not working outside the root 256mx256m area of the var?<br />
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Not working properly.<br />
[11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: not that I recall<br />
[11:45] valerie llauke: well talk .. i know 4 people whose avies borked and i keep losing skin and shape ... just and FYI .....<br />
[11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but then again I dont really recall trying Andrew<br />
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nerver got to that point. as long im stuck with othger things andrew<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: they just dont work at all?<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I will have to test that<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: would surprise me though<br />
[11:46] vegaslon plutonian: I see them work fine<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: because I know the partciles in the McLaren racer work fine<br />
[11:46] valerie llauke: particle are fine on mine<br />
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, ok. I pointed out to someone that their candle effect didn't look good and that I had a better one. They said it starts out ok but deteriorates after a while in the var.<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: the burnout smoke works fine in all my vars<br />
[11:46] vegaslon plutonian: one of the first things I tested on a var<br />
[11:47] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that would be wierd Andrew<br />
[11:47] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: unless maybe its reliant on wind<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, that's what I thought. I haven't confirmed it yet.<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: no, the particles were rising straight up<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but then again i dont know of any issues with wind if there are any in vars<br />
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: I used to have trouble with particle limits in SL, you only get so many particles and other emitters can degrade your emitter<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya maybe its just the viewer<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, That is more a viewer limitation.<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: perhaps having trouble rendering<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: as more stuff loads<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Upper limit is about 4,000 particles.<br />
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: so I'd think a long draw distance in a var with lots of emitters would screw things up<br />
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 4096<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but i cans et mine higher<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think 8192 is max<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup. max for me is 8192<br />
[11:53] Basil Sosides: FPS onBulletphysics, can we get some more ?<br />
[11:53] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: sorry was afk phone<br />
[11:53] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you mean the 11fps?<br />
[11:53] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that is being worked on<br />
[11:53] Basil Sosides: yes<br />
[11:54] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its a fairly complex problem<br />
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: do we need more?<br />
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought that was just a case of real stats instead of the older ones.<br />
[11:54] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we need all the FPS's!!!<br />
[11:54] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea nothings changed in terms of performance<br />
[11:54] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: before we were just multiplying the number<br />
[11:54] Dahlia Trimble: what should it be?<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 44 ?<br />
[11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: right now the max is 11fps<br />
[11:55] Basil Sosides: OK#<br />
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought 11 was the proper number under the new stats.<br />
[11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yes<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 11.3<br />
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes 11 is right for new stats<br />
[11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: the only thing that kind of sucks about it now<br />
[11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: is the viewers report that the simulators are running below optimial levels<br />
[11:55] vegaslon plutonian: veiwer lag meter always shows red for the server<br />
[11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i dont think it causes any problems<br />
[11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya<br />
[11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you just get a warning<br />
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: as I understand it, OpenSim does things differently also, so the frame rate is not the whole story.<br />
[11:56] Basil Sosides: why show the Singu Viewer on 0.8.1 50 FPS, not 11 ???<br />
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: Like mpore things happen in a frame.<br />
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: Not sure though.<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: basil, mine does<br />
[11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: basil maybe your looking at the GPU fps?<br />
[11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: for rendering?<br />
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks didn't understand the question and how a program version related to the FPS number<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1.8.6 ?<br />
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: Basil, viewer fps and sim fps and physics fps are all different things<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: The old stats used to show 53 or so FPS but the corrected stats will show 11.<br />
[11:57] Basil Sosides: i run two versions with Bullet, 0.8.1 shows 52 FPS, 0.8.2 11FPS<br />
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: 52 sounds low<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: 0.8.2 shows proper stats, not inflated ones as were shown before<br />
[11:58] Dahlia Trimble: but 11 is good<br />
[11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea it would have been 55fps<br />
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, Phy FPS was always a little lower than Sim FPS<br />
[11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there is a refactoring in progress for how stats are gathered<br />
[11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and possibly to see if these levels can indeed be increased<br />
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not shocking lower<br />
[11:58] Dahlia Trimble: Andrew, I see 11.3 for physics and 11 for sim right now<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Basil, you must have missed the mention of this in the release notes<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you run bulletsim in its own thread<br />
[11:59] Basil Sosides: but its OK#, new Version is good at all<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you wont get any proper fps<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it will show 11 always<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that is also being worked on<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 11 oir lower<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: not if your running bullet in its own thread<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it wont ever go lower than 11<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: because its not wired in<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, oh. and why you not run it in own thread on wright ?<br />
[12:00] Dahlia Trimble: I bet it will :)<br />
[12:00] vegaslon plutonian: see it go lower then 11 all the time<br />
[12:00] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Diva was going to talke a look at that<br />
[12:00] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: well maybe it will if the sim heartbeat does<br />
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, ok. I'm seeing the same. Sim is 11 and Phys is bouncing around 11 give or take about 3 points<br />
[12:00] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but its not actually becasue of physics<br />
[12:00] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: the only way to get proper physics stats right now is to not run bullet in its own thread<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but then of course peformance tanks<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its being worked on<br />
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: 11 is the new 55 :)<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:01] Basil Sosides: my Viewer shows me 11.3 FPS for Wright Plaza, so its Bullet here<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Does the LSL script that gets FPS numbers return 11 or still returns the older 55 range number?<br />
[12:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yes all the plazas are bullet<br />
[12:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: in their own thread<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the old number was 56.5 at max.....new number os 11.3<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the "fudge factor" was 5x<br />
[12:02] Basil Sosides: i think Bullet are modern Physics<br />
[12:02] Basil Sosides: verry good<br />
[12:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea bullet is the best choice right now<br />
[12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: likely will be for the forseeable future<br />
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you know http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetObjectDetails have a few extra options in SL ?<br />
[12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: wouldnt surprise me if ours isnt fully implemented Richardus<br />
[12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: is there a mantis?<br />
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: OBJECT_RENDER_WEIGHT, OBJECT_HOVER_HEIGHT, OBJECT_BODY_SHAPE_TYPE out of my mind<br />
[12:03] vegaslon plutonian: patches on the mantis for that<br />
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No, nebadon. i just remember it again<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: cool<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: what number vegaslon?<br />
[12:04] vegaslon plutonian: whole bunch of them<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: new or old?<br />
[12:04] vegaslon plutonian: new<br />
[12:04] Dahlia Trimble: lol OBJECT_RENDER_WEIGHT<br />
[12:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok i'll take a look at those when i can<br />
[12:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: unless someone beats me to it :)<br />
[12:06] Dahlia Trimble: go for it! :D<br />
[12:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i cannot find the artifle with the list of new ones<br />
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I ran across some things missing from another LSL function. I've got a code change I haven't pushed yet.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: soon as I finish setting up my new phone<br />
[12:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: upgraded from Galaxy Note 2 to Galaxy Note 4<br />
[12:07] Dahlia Trimble: I have a very cheap and old android phone which works better than I need it to<br />
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: llGetEnv() can return values for a few strings which currently return just an empty string.<br />
[12:07] vegaslon plutonian: lol you already applied to patch nebadon<br />
[12:07] Sarah Kline: night all<br />
[12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: heh ya well if company wasnt getting me them id still be using my 19$ Wallgreens Nokia phone<br />
[12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:08] Dahlia Trimble: I dont like newer smartphones, too much spyware for my taste<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: https://modemworld.wordpress.com/2015/04/29/sl-projects-updates-week-181-server-viewer/<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Dev Random.....since you recently were looking at the code related to terrain, I don't suppose you might be able to locate where the terraforming tools were broken, would you?<br />
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: llgetenv seems to have updates too<br />
[12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea i saw the patch for llgetenv<br />
[12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i'll look at those later<br />
[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok.<br />
[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i dont use it. but before people start to scream.. :O<br />
[12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I didnt notice a patch for LlGetObjectDetails<br />
[12:10] vegaslon plutonian: ya you already applied that patch<br />
[12:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh heh<br />
[12:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok<br />
[12:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh your right i sure did<br />
[12:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Where is there a patch for llGetEnv?<br />
[12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7579<br />
[12:12] Basil Sosides: sometime Assets disapears<br />
[12:12] Basil Sosides: but not often<br />
[12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: asset knomes<br />
[12:12] Basil Sosides: yes<br />
[12:12] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :)<br />
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I would have called that variable RegionStartTime instead of UnixStartTime. That is one of the changes I realized is needed<br />
[12:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye dahlia<br />
[12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: see you dahlia<br />
[12:12] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye dahlia<br />
[12:12] Basil Sosides: bye Dahlia<br />
[12:12] valerie llauke: bye dahlia<br />
[12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Basil chances are when that happens<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia<br />
[12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its likely some kind of threading issue at the simulator<br />
[12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hard to say though<br />
[12:13] Dev Random: Aine: The terrain code I was playing with is not related to the tools. My code was for manipulating the data from the console. I took a quick look at the tools, but didn't dig deep. Tough to find time outside RL work.<br />
[12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I need to get going myself, supposed to be meeting my sister shortly<br />
[12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: be back a bit later i will check out the llgetenv patch<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, someone only provided the llGetEnv patch today.<br />
[12:14] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-05-12Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-122015-10-25T22:52:02Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
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<div><pre><br />
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[11:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hello :)<br />
[11:02] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:02] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002 is Online<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: freakin Electric company decided to swap my power meter 10 minutes ago<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: no warning<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: just poof whole house shuts off<br />
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: grr<br />
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hello<br />
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br />
[11:03] Dahlia Trimble: hi<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nice. company's you have there. ok, weird system to place the meters outside :) here the cannot get to it if i keep the door locked<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what would happen if because that youir computer get damaged because you where just doing bios flash nebadon ?<br />
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: id pretty much be screwed heh<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah....that's what insurance is for, if you can get the right clauses<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: soory for the language. pile off as..ho..ses of the company<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or a UPS system like I have since the power here is a bit unreliable<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya my laptop survived :)<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then I get a 20-minute window to shut things down properly<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, UPS in usa is really usefull<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 20min ? must be a 1400va ups<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i have had a chance to check rack servers in basement<br />
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: im sure they are fine though<br />
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello everyone<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew<br />
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hello andrew<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: so<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm up and running again. In the last couple weeks I did a major upgrade of the components for my main computer, thanks in part to nebadon helping me narrow down my options.<br />
[11:07] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 waves silently<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: Jenkins has been acting a bit wierd lately<br />
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: BlueWall said he will take a closer look at it soon<br />
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: mostly its just slow as dirt<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Claps, you found finaly a solution andrew<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @RiRa....no idea....when I bought the system I told the guy "I need a UPS that will give me enough time to shut down" and that's what he gave me.....for all I know it could be a couple of hamsters inside the box<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it works<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine APC or ?<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yup. I went for the route of spending more $$ but I got a machine about 4 to 5 times faster than I had been running.<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: Justin not sure if you saw but diva did a major refactoring of initial inventory fetch<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, still the best choice<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its like 50-75% faster now<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: um.....rectangular and grey and not somewhere I can easily read a label on it<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Also with a case with more space inside and with lots more memory,.<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i can lucky delay mine, until i know what software need or it really dont work anymore<br />
[11:09] Cuteulala Artis is Online<br />
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: turns out Inventory links were extremely inefficient<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't tried diva's inventory improvements but they really sound encouraging.<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't have to insert hamster food so I assume there's something inside it like a battery<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i made 3000 links in my inventory for this avatar<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it took over 3 hours to get my inventory about 95% downloaded<br />
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I have been folowing the Mantis notes on llCastRay, I vote for throwing out the old useless llCastRay and switching to the new one that actually works!!!<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with divas new code it takes about 1 minute and 30 seconds<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: 3 hours?? eek.<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: for 48,000 items<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, have you tried links to links in inventory?<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't been able to test it yet.....the issues with the first couple iterations made Seth too nervous to apply it directly to RG yet<br />
[11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: is the inventory working ok for you aine? i know u had big problems before<br />
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: of that 48k, 3k are links<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I actually logged in here today<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: with cleared cache<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: normally that would have done quite a number on the simulator<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't test yet since I'm dependent on RG's Robust being updated<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: possibly even crashed it<br />
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: are links to links allowed?<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: not even a hiccup today<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure Dahlia<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: never tried<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have it on my regions but until Robust is improved it's meaningless to test it<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect it probably just links again to the original maybe<br />
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: no<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer will not let me<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so that side of it is up to Seth<br />
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its not even an option<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and first version of it breaking all the links didn't inspire him with a lot of confidence so I think he wants to wait for a few more bugs to be shaken out of it before he updates the grid<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: well I can say that here on OSgrid the improvement was drastic<br />
[11:13] AlexRime SiLiSiLi is Online<br />
[11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: breaking links?<br />
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: is there a config change to go with it?<br />
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: no config changes<br />
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: robust also?<br />
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes....the first one broke all inventory links and the subsequent fixed one has mismatching folder counts<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so....<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: did anyone figure out what the folder count mismatch is?<br />
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: so a robust configu change is needed?<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and was it fixed?<br />
[11:14] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: how could it break links when its only reading and not writing?<br />
[11:15] mattie mcbride is Offline<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: There is still that wierdness with the new firestorm<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but that existed before the changes<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: so its unrelated<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: that appears to be something LL possibly changed<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its not their AIS3 system<br />
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i tested disabling that in the viewer and it still occurs<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it does stop<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: after about 4 minutes<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: not sure how to pin that one down<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and your sure the viewer reaslly use the old system ?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Tank_Master said we should file a Jira<br />
[11:16] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev adf0f49: 2015-05-09 08:58:59 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I havent had a chance to do that yet<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is the folder mismatchc perhaps related to the FS bridge?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what that is<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks is Offline<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I am probably not the best person to be dealing with Firestorm issues<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: since I never use it<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I gether something to do with RLV but I'm not an expert on that since I don't use RLV<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: unless somsone points out a specific bug im trying to confirm<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I run the risk of not being able to know some of the lingo there<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: heh<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, last time Seth tested on the RG test set-up he said there's a folder count mismatch<br />
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: stalling out any kind of support<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and he reported it in the Mantis<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not sure, that is not something I experienced myself<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there was a new mantis<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: or in that long mantis<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that was the old Mantis that I created to track the issue and which Diva said she wasn't going to read any more<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if its in that long mantis its going to be ignored<br />
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks is Online<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: please do start a new one if it persists<br />
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: any new bugs need new mantis<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: mixing them into old mantis even if that mantis is the cause<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is not proper procedure<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't want to start any new ones or add any more notes to existing ones.....don't want to spam Mantis with reports<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: well if its a real bug<br />
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: its not spam<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bah! Singularity still often crashes when I switch desktop workspaces. :P<br />
[11:19] Vimeo Player v1.0: You are not the owner of this screen!!<br />
[11:19] Vimeo Player v1.0: You are not the owner of this screen!!<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I think justin has that problem too<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you use that app that lets you use multiple screens or something?<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i forget the name<br />
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that sounds linux... think i know that too from the past. not sure<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I really should report the problem to Singularity.<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, its a feature of Linux and the gnome desktop.<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok<br />
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya Justin uses some other app for multiple computers and screens<br />
[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sofar i know suppported on all desktops in linux. so usefull<br />
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: synergy<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya synergy<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats the one, that causes you some viewer pain sometimes?<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had a weird thing happening in the last week or two.....I've had a few occasions when I've been HGed somewhere and suddenly I get a script error notice telling me that I don't have permission to use OSSL functions....but the thing sending me the message is one o f my dance balls that someone else owns and has set up in their region<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is it possible it's somehow pulling script creator instead of script owner?<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya that happened here last week or two right<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: and everyone who saw it was using firestorm<br />
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: the people who werent didnt see if<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: it*<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh, interesting<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br />
[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Would it be worth reporting that I can't seem to see mesh attachments and avatars today? Whereas I could see them fine last week with an identical setup...<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: 2 or 3 people saw it<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and all claimed they were on firestorm<br />
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...well since you're aware of it I'll assume you'll report it<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: Allen and I were not and didnt see it<br />
[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: <<< using FS .6.7<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I will not be reporting<br />
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I cant report things i dont experience<br />
[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: +4<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Sheera.Khan that may just be cache problem<br />
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: it can happen with mesh and hypergrid a lot<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: clearing cache generally fixes it<br />
[11:24] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: oh, ok - I'll do so<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: first thing to try anyway<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if it constantly persists<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: then go about with a bug report<br />
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if its a transient thing that isnt repeatble often, its likely not so much a bug and possibly just because of circumstances<br />
[11:25] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I'll just retry...<br />
[11:25] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: BRB<br />
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: kk<br />
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the interesting thing with that is the data is all in the viewer cache<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when he relogs it will pull it from cache instantly<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the same happens with animations, sometimes<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but until the relog there's usually no way to trick it into showing<br />
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: though sometimes toggling into wireframe and back will do it<br />
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I have found zooming far away and back sometimes does it too<br />
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: not always though<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, sometimes that will work<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it depends if it's a LOD issue or not<br />
[11:28] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: no change ....<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Sheera, try toggling into wireframe and back<br />
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: clear cache and relog (tm)<br />
[11:29] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Dahlia, that I just did<br />
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or...if you have an ATI graphics card and the latest drivers that can cause issues too....the ATI drivers are bugged<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: or as I like to call it the "LL Solution to everything"<br />
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that only fails to display rigged mesh...regular mesh is fine<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the trick with clearing cache<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you have to wait for everytihng in the region to load<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: before you HG out<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: your inventory, and the surrounding region<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: that can really up the odds of things being right when you arrive<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: teleporting before stuff finishes is not good<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: pretty much insures you will experience something strange<br />
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: teleporting before your attachments rez isnt too good either<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi whispers: ya especially with HG<br />
[11:31] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I can (and will have to) live with this today ;-)<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: another thing to do Sheera<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: keep your outfit in your suitcase<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: if you are a heavy HG traveler<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: always keep your entire appearance folder in your suitcase<br />
[11:32] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: will do :-)<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: having it outside of suitcase cuts you off from access once you leave home grid<br />
[11:32] Cero Mach is Online<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: really anything you need<br />
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: AO etc..<br />
[11:32] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:33] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: but it's not my attachments... I can't see you Neb i.e. only a medaillon you're wearing<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ah<br />
[11:33] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: And RiRa is looking funny too ;-)<br />
[11:33] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, the hovering medallion lol<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: how about now?<br />
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i reattached<br />
[11:33] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: much much better now<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that might have been my fault<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: logging in here with clear cache during a meeting<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: not a great idea<br />
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i wanted to see how the region responded<br />
[11:34] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, so nothing really serious about the new version - phew :-)<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I just saw a bunch of red on console from you Alicia<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: where you trying to access inventory?<br />
[11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nope?<br />
[11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: what was it saying?<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: 18:36:22 - [INVENTORY]: Failed to process queued inventory request 013e589a-cf28-484e-afa2-afc9d48635f8 for Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk in Wright Plaza. Exception System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object<br />
at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.BadFolder (OpenSim.Framework.Capabilities.LLSDFetchInventoryDescendents freq, OpenSim.Framework.InventoryCollection contents, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 bad_folders) [0x00019] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:636<br />
at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.Fetch (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 fetchFolders, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 bad_folders) [0x000e9] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:612<br />
at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.FetchInventoryDescendentsRequest (System.String requ<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: System.String param, IOSHttpRequest httpRequest, IOSHttpResponse httpResponse) [0x0016b] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:120<br />
at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.WebFetchInvDescModule+PollServiceInventoryEventArgs.Process (OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.aPollRequest requestinfo) [0x00081] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/Caps/WebFetchInvDescModule.cs:364<br />
at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.WebFetchInvDescModule.WaitProcessQueuedInventoryRequest () [0x00026] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/Caps/WebFetchInvDescModule.cs:448<br />
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, that error i have seen before<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: maybe trying to access something outside of your suitcase<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: dunno<br />
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that is often a script inside something you're wearing<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I see a lot of them though<br />
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think it could be because i had a clear cache before i came, maybe didnt wait long enough before i tp'd here<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yep<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats it<br />
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nope, i wasnt doing anything<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: diva is probably going to implement new block<br />
[11:38] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: same with me then ...<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that will not let you HG teleport if you inventory is still downloading<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully she can do that I think that would be good thing<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: prevent some console spew<br />
[11:39] Cuteulala Artis is Offline<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem to be effecting performance<br />
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as it's reporting accurately....<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: just noisy mostly<br />
[11:39] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: makes sense, i hadnt noticed it before<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: before divas invnetory refactor<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: this problem could have cause major issues here<br />
[11:39] Cuteulala Artis is Online<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: cause it would eat up threads<br />
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what timezone is PDT ?<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: California<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Pacific<br />
[11:40] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Pacific Daylight Saving Time<br />
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = grid time usually<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but what timezone ? windows only show TC to set extra clock<br />
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: good choice for grid time :)<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: central time -6 ?<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: PDT = GMT-9<br />
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the last virtual world i used had their clocks set to middle of the atlantic, half way between US and Europe<br />
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: er...-8 sprry<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i like that idea<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: make sure everyone is equally confused<br />
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha i se pacific. thanks<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: equal rights for all!<br />
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: lol<br />
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: pffft. That's no fun :P<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Star Date 4609.4<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: wouldn't the only meaningful one be relativity-corrected seconds since the big Bang?<br />
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhmm i dont know if your stardate is correct nebadon<br />
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: The current star date would be negative lol<br />
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks thinks it is missing a digit<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: any other issues anyone wanted to discuss?<br />
[11:45] Cuteulala Artis: we need a region size 3d printer in 3d to 3d build our sims :P<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the sigsegv some people are getting could be linked to a crash i had this morning, i have the error msg this time tho<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it would be cool to be able to 3d print a region<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: but man after exploring 3D printing<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: that would be insanely difficult right now<br />
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: why?<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well for shapeways for instance the models have to be fairly clean<br />
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: You might need one of the liquid based 3d printers<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I notice that after a while if a region has experience latency issues there are a lot of hug threads that cause issues (thinks like 100+ wind change threads that never get updated, etc).,....maybe some sort of console command "clear threads" so it could be fixed during run-time instead of requiring a ful simulator restart<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: though maybe that's not possible'<br />
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: "clean"?<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: drop<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: not to mention it would have to be lacking all textures and only be color<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: orbort<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: then have a clean way to translate all of that<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: take your pick of semantics<br />
[11:48] Cuteulala Artis: Ohhhh! i ment a in world 3d printer for our sims lolol<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yes clean as is no non-manifold geometry<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything has to be solid<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no planes<br />
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I recently ran across reference to an addon for 3D printers that appears to let any plastic spool fed 3D printer print using up to 4 colours.<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for example<br />
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: show threadpool calls active<br />
LLClientView.SendWindData : 43<br />
ScenePresence.SendOutChildAgentUpdates : 31<br />
ModifyLand : 8<br />
HGAssetBroker.GotFromCache : 4<br />
J2KDecoderModule.BeginDecode : 1<br />
FriendsModule.StatusChange : 1<br />
ObjectDeselect : 1<br />
ObjectSelect : 1<br />
AvatarFactoryModule.SaveAppearance : 1<br />
ChatFromViewer : 1<br />
TOTAL NAMED : 92<br />
TOTAL QUEUED : 0<br />
TOTAL RUNNING : 2<br />
TOTAL ANONYMOUS : -90<br />
TOTAL ALL : 2<br />
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: how about a voxel representation? that would be maniford<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: maybe<br />
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: those numbers are not accurate<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but then how do you translate colors etc..<br />
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: after any period of time. ideally that has to be fixed at a very small cost to performance<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: all of those are hung threads and will continue to sit there until a restart<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it could be done, but you would have to stick to pretty strict building guidelines<br />
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: well ya color probably wont work<br />
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: interiors are problematic<br />
[11:49] Cuteulala Artis: you cabn print all in one color and pain it professionaly<br />
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: they are very likely not hung - very likely those numbers are false positives<br />
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: unless maybe it can do a few primary colors<br />
[11:49] Cuteulala Artis: paint<br />
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: and it can be halftone<br />
[11:50] Dahlia Trimble: halftoned<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya or just hand paint it afterwards<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: print decals<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:50] Dahlia Trimble has a halftining patent :)<br />
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why not make your own build your sim kit. from small parts. make painting more easy, and printing<br />
[11:50] Cuteulala Artis: we can use NVIDIAS instant printer hahah<br />
[11:51] Cuteulala Artis: paint a giant section instantly<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we should probably include some where in opensim setup notes about mono and threading<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and the need for setting > export MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU=2048<br />
[11:51] Cuteulala Artis: and fix this sesire avatar movement<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: because i beleive the default is 15 threads<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess what I find is when I see numbers like that being reported it's also almost guaranteed the the sim is struggling with other stuff<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and i have found I cant even teleport to a region<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that is running the default threads<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: maybe an empty sim you can<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then after a full simluator restart it's usually fine again<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but a sim even with minimal content its just terrible<br />
[11:52] Cuteulala Artis: Ohhhh! ya no rez haha tried to splash neb right in the face lololol<br />
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: What are the thread limits under Windows?<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: CPU catching fire<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think .net has much higher adaptive limit<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: im not even sure you can manipulate that in user space on windows<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: .net will just use whatever is available<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: mono is much more strict it seams<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: since its not so great at handling large amounts of threads<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we don't really have a proper place to put a note like that in the current code base<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we have BUILDING.md<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt seem appropriate though<br />
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: I guess README.md<br />
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: maybe it can be detected and then spam the console<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hmm<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats a good idea<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: since expecting people to read is a bad expectation<br />
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just thinking we could specify a thread limit for mono that is somewhat in line with the limits (if any) under Windows<br />
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I think there's a way to tell if it's running in mono, then just search the environment for that string<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: well<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the mono website recommends 2048<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: for heavily threaded apps<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the default i believe is 15<br />
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I use 512 which is just an arbitraty choice that seems to work<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so for Opensim maybe 182392298 wouild be a good setting?<br />
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: which is not enough for even a small opensim instance<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: 512 is probably enough<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ive never really experimented<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: just went with xamarins suggestion<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I can say though opensim runs very poorly on the defaults<br />
[11:58] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: ist osgrid<br />
[11:58] Cuteulala Artis: can i share a osgrid forum link here to a freebie i release?<br />
[11:59] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: hier ist OS?<br />
[11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: ja<br />
[11:59] Dahlia Trimble: then there's all those MMOs out there that use 1 thread per cpu....<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: sure Cute<br />
[11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: freebies<br />
[11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: da ist auch ein teleporter<br />
[11:59] Cuteulala Artis: V5.0 Of coasters released yesturday less memory and RETARDED fast cars now Ah HAHAHA... :O if u want to make a super hyper speed coaster :PP http://forums.osgrid.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5372<br />
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: better hope u can catch it once u start it<br />
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: can now go past gear 4<br />
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: up to 10<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh..I just remembered something I wanted to ask....<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you set a sit target for an object (even just a tiny one) you can sit on it from anywheren in the region....if you don't, you can only sit on it from 10m away or less....is that intended?<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: here is where mono suggests<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.mono-project.com/archived/articlethreadpool_deadlocks/<br />
[12:01] Cuteulala Artis: how is my missles exploading if they never fired<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its actually 2000 they suggest<br />
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: Aine, I think SL does that also<br />
[12:01] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: hier sind viele in der nähe<br />
[12:01] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: ich muss nach craft<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was just curious if there was a *reason* for it that I couldn't think of<br />
[12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: gibt hier auch hypergate<br />
[12:02] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: wo<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you set click action touch it's not enough...you have to actually set a non-ZERO_VECTOR target<br />
[12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: weiss nicht<br />
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, interesting "bug"(?)<br />
[12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: muss aber hier sein<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I think in SL though it will walk you to the object<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: of your further away?<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure<br />
[12:03] ladyjo martin is Online<br />
[12:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: target has to be non zero vector in sl i think also<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya its been a while since ive say on anything no scripted in SL<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: say=sat*<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I tested it in my own region and can sit on it from even 5000m away if it has a target<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: same in SL<br />
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think it's a bug<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that is not a bug<br />
[12:03] Cero Mach is Offline<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its actually quite handy<br />
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, if not a bug, a strange feature?<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: was more wondering if maybe an object set to "sit" could have the same behaviour<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or is that handled viewer-side?<br />
[12:04] Dahlia Trimble: maybe something to do with a sit exploit or whatnot<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I think non scripted sit uses a raycast<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: thats why ours doesnt work well<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: why you dont sit properly<br />
[12:04] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: Hallo Bernhard, hier findet gerade ein Treffen der Entwickler und einiger Benutzer der OpenSimulator-Software statt :-)<br />
[12:03] Sheera Khan: also kein Grund zur Beunruhigung<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: so there may be limitations to accuracy with raycast<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: if your to far<br />
[12:05] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: sorry<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: walls etc..<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: the limit may be low to reduce the effects of barriers to the raycast<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: while not perfect im sure its much higher chance if the object is line of site<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: sight*<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I see...and when there's a sit target it just skips that?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: right<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: when there is no target specified we have to calculate angle of approach etc..<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: could a code adjustment allow the sit-target type behaviour globally or is it the viewer that makes that decision?<br />
[12:07] Dahlia Trimble: dont know<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...was mostly just curious about it<br />
[12:08] Cuteulala Artis: just out of curiosity<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect those protocols are hard coded into the viewer<br />
[12:08] Cuteulala Artis: But Why? havent we started using the osgrid welcome station as the new lbsa<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: not something we could just over ride on the simulator side<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: not fully anyway<br />
[12:09] Cuteulala Artis: lbsa plaza is getting old and old to see lolol<br />
[12:09] Dahlia Trimble: I like the welcom station, it's nicely done :)<br />
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen a mention of "raycast" in the last few days. Can someone explain what that is in term of OS? For me I think or raycasting as part of a technique to do 3D rendering of objects.<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: Cuteulala talk with Dan and Key<br />
[12:09] Cuteulala Artis: its 1000 times better then lbsa<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: I will leave that decision to them<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: however I am fine with updating it<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: as long as its not to drastic<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: I like that particular layout<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: but i agree it could use some updating<br />
[12:10] Cuteulala Artis: its more professional<br />
[12:10] Cuteulala Artis: for noobs<br />
[12:10] Dahlia Trimble: Andrew, there's been some recent patches to improve llCastRay()<br />
[12:10] Cuteulala Artis: then lbsa<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya Lbsa is more iconic than anything at this point<br />
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: I am not against updating it though<br />
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, That would be why I've seen recent references to it in OS.<br />
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: send Me? the oar and ill put in halo with capture the flag mayhamm lolol<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia there is another patch<br />
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: hehe<br />
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: hehehe<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: have you seen it?<br />
[12:11] Dahlia Trimble: essentially a raycast is like drawing a line from one point to another in 3d space and noting whatever it intersects<br />
[12:11] Kayaker Magic: But there has been too much discussioin about keeping the old broken llCastRay! I say throw out the bad lLCastRay!<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: its supposed to be a lot faster<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: a v3 patch<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's usred for targeting systems in weapons scripts<br />
[12:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why keep old noty compatible one in. throw it away.<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: however It was a bit above my head so I didnt want to just commit it<br />
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: we want fixed castray so i can program a giant spider vehicle<br />
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: without others looking at it first<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: think it has that name because it sort of does the same kind of thing as raycasting in rendering does<br />
[12:12] Kayaker Magic: Consider this: BulletSim doesn't work for bullets, so we have to use llCastRay and the current one is borked.<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it tries to draw a straight line and figure out the first intersection point<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7546<br />
[12:12] Kayaker Magic: So there is NOTHING that works right for weapons at the moment.<br />
[12:12] Cuteulala Artis: um<br />
[12:12] Cuteulala Artis: my weapons work!<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: Kayaker have you tried v2?<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its not enabled by default I dont think<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: trying to remember what is needed now<br />
[12:13] Cuteulala Artis: i been making missle launching planes and nukes dropers with push and rocket launchers and bows<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a new ini setting<br />
[12:13] Dahlia Trimble: good way to kill a sim is to do a bunch of raycasts in rapid succession (like firing weapons)<br />
[12:13] UUID Speaker: Alsya Destiny: a6d1d94a-38ca-48cd-a53f-c604e37dcce6<br />
[12:13] mattie mcbride is Online<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: see: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7546<br />
[12:13] Cuteulala Artis: to bad no rez hahaha<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: [LL-Functions]<br />
[12:13] Kayaker Magic: I have a bunch of weapons that work, but they get llCastRay hits on bounding boxes, and hit on physics type none objects they should fly through.<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: UseLlCastRayV1 = false<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: in OpenSim.ini<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that has Magnuz's notes on it<br />
[12:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: NWrites note: don't start a war with cutuelala :)<br />
[12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure if anyone has documented it in the wiki<br />
[12:14] Cuteulala Artis: ya i want to unleash a few rockets in here so bad hahaahh<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya our llCastRay is still very incomplete<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: even v2<br />
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a snowball thrower that works well in tossing snowballs at distant targets. I don't think it used llCastRay<br />
[12:14] Dahlia Trimble: what doesn't work about physical bullets in BulletSim?<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: there is a v3 patch that I havent tested yet<br />
[12:15] Kayaker Magic: physical bullets do not generate collisions properly<br />
[12:15] Cuteulala Artis: idk my bullets are physical and they fire perfectly and blow up on collision with acasionaly they bounce of objects before they expload<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: i believe v2 is basically ported from Aurora and V3 is a completely new OpenSim implementation<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: v4 will hopefully be native bullem raycasting<br />
[12:15] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bulletsim doesnt always register in the script that the bullet has hit something, even tho it will bounce off<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: bullet*<br />
[12:16] Cuteulala Artis: ya i noticed a few times my rockets hit things and bounce off the walls<br />
[12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 dreams of the day that clothSim v1 is added<br />
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen that with my snowball thrower, Alicia<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats Dudsim v1.0<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: :P<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: bad trigger switche simulator<br />
[12:16] ladyjo martin is Online<br />
[12:16] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev adf0f49: 2015-05-09 08:58:59 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the physics is ok, just doesnt always trigger the lsl event, maybe its xengine thats at fault<br />
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup. lsl events can be disaster.<br />
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: same with sensors etc.<br />
[12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so much depends on what other stuff XEngine is doing<br />
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think it's better now, but still not 100% sure<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya event timing is not reliable enough for weapons probably<br />
[12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: event triggering in a timely, predictable way is non-existent<br />
[12:17] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: for spell casting we had to use round balls against round targets, then they dont bounce off and eventually the event gets fired (in most cases)<br />
[12:17] Cuteulala Artis: if i won the lotta<br />
[12:18] Cuteulala Artis: id invest a few mill on opensim<br />
[12:18] Justin Clark-Casey: they is why you aren't rich, Cute :)<br />
[12:18] Kayaker Magic: I've had physical bullets skitter around on the terrain for minutes without generating any collisions with the terrain.<br />
[12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol<br />
[12:18] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :)<br />
[12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia...have a good week<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Dahlia<br />
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Dahlia<br />
[12:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: c y dahlia<br />
[12:18] Cuteulala Artis: noooooo<br />
[12:19] Cuteulala Artis: dont go<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:19] Cuteulala Artis: just cause u a dev dont run!!!!<br />
[12:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: actually, I should be on my way too<br />
</pre><br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-05-05Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-052015-10-25T22:51:15Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
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<div><pre><br />
[10:59] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br />
[10:59] PcTek CyberStar: hi<br />
[10:59] PcTek CyberStar: * turns on volume<br />
[11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've been having a weird issue that used to only happen once in a while but now seems to be annoyingly frequent....if someone from another grid HG-IMs me when I'm in one of my own self-hosted regions I receive the IM but any attempt to replay bounces back....if I tp to my Hedonism region which is hosted on the main RG server, I can replay without any trouble at all. Both regions are running identical versions of Opensim and both are configured identically (except for UUID of course) so the only difference is where it's hosted and that my self-hosted is .NET and Hedonism is mono<br />
[11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi<br />
[11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has anyone else run into issues like that at all?<br />
[11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: You mean "user is not online" message when you reply ? that is old problem<br />
[11:01] PcTek CyberStar: yes.<br />
[11:01] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 waves uietly hello to everyone<br />
[11:01] PcTek CyberStar: sometimes when people im me from other grids and i reply back it says they are not there.<br />
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online<br />
[11:01] PcTek CyberStar: but they can see it and im me back and i can im them back<br />
[11:02] PcTek CyberStar: but everytime i im them, the system says they are not online<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: I see the user offline sometimes<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, it bounced my reply back saying the user isn't onlhine and they don't receive the message yet they're able to IM me without trouble<br />
[11:02] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: ohhh, I haven't seen that<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia<br />
[11:02] PcTek CyberStar: the strange thing is, it does not always happen that way.<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then if I simply change to a gird-hosted region IM works fine even though it's still HGIM<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and no, it isn't consistent at all<br />
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it used to only happen once in t ahwile<br />
[11:03] PcTek CyberStar: hi<br />
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin<br />
[11:03] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Hi Justin :-)<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's one of the HG problems next to the problem that offflienIM dont get send to the user when he logins<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but now it's about 75% of the IMs I receive<br />
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: do you take your home regino offline?<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes if I'm in the RG-hosted region I almost never have any trouble replying<br />
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: does your ip change (dynamic)<br />
[11:04] PcTek CyberStar: in my case no the ip does not change.<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, my home-hosted one is only offline when I update<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and IP is static<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: okm<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: how are you Justin?<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I use the actual IP when the region connects to the RG server, not a DNS one<br />
[11:05] PcTek CyberStar: that sounds like a problem with the messenger service not checking the hypergrid status of an avatars presence, but only the local grid.<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's only outbound, not inbound<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so there's no presence check at our end<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i don't know what could be wrong with offlineIM.<br />
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm ok bluewall - contrary to expectation, my entire week was absorbed again by something else<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if I immediately tp to one of our grid-hosted regions it works, so it's not a presense check failure at their end<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it'snot offline IM , RR....they're online, just IMed me, and I'm trying to reply to them<br />
[11:06] BlueWall Slade: hopefully it was pleasant :)<br />
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: not really, but the super critical phase is at an end. Just critical phases now<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: throw the sponges out of the room justin. :)<br />
[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: sponges? :)<br />
[11:07] PcTek CyberStar: well i think hypergridding is great. i'm watching the grid-on-a-stick as opposed to sim-on-a-stick evolve. i think eventually smaller personal grids may experience growth, and hypergrid technology will allow interconnectivity and sharing of creations. maybe another 3 check boxes on objects? hg copy _ hg mod _ hg xfer _ ?<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup. the absorb all your time<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: PcTek, HG is good. if messages offline and online work and frienmds online<br />
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: I am setting up a dev box that I can buiold a network inside and hopefully look at some of these things.<br />
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: They are rando though, so there must be some variable that triggesr it.<br />
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: netowrk speed, reliability, etc.<br />
[11:09] PcTek CyberStar: if random, perhaps it's similiar to the ddosing of the asset server during object import floods?<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: justin, there's no debug option for V2 messaging ?<br />
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: RiRa - you made some alt accounts to test that with?<br />
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: V2 group messaging?<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i made 1 extra account. i replied on the matis. but it don't make a difference<br />
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: ok<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes justin. well more IM messages<br />
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: person to person IM won't touch V2 groups at all<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha. hmm. is there debug info you can get ?<br />
[11:11] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 44b8b9f: 2015-05-04 16:23:16 -0400 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: for perosn to person IM I suspect not I'm afraid, apart from myabe switching on general http debugging<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: looking with half eyes. sick. so if im slow you know why<br />
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: there might be some for general group messages - don't know how useful it would be<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok<br />
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry to hear that richardus<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: cold can everybody get<br />
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: ++ get well soon<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: could there be an issue of something between grids using core services like we do vs grids running mostly non-core like OSG does?<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thanks<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i tried it between metro , metro and my own grid. also did send a message to some other robust grid. she did not get it too<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: non-core works better. but dont work at all because it need access to the mysql data from robust. so you cannot place it on webservice and keep robust homne<br />
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Metro is running non-core services too, though<br />
[11:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: does metro use robust?<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think the do, not sure wich version<br />
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it uses Robust with an antiquated back end of some sort that they're holding together with duct-code<br />
[11:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol duct code<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: :p<br />
[11:15] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Metro switched to 0.8.2 Robust some weeks ago<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: anyway. my grid get it, saves it. but not get it out<br />
[11:15] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont have an account there, I just hg there once in a while<br />
[11:16] PcTek CyberStar: intRayMakerImmunity++;<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...but I'm not talking about offline IM storage and retrieval.,...I'm talking about ONLINE ones<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i where thinking, it's not a thing that V2 messaging still need a php script ? by accident<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or has the conversaton moved on from that?<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it goes from online to offline to onlimne aine :)<br />
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: It should be complete<br />
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: does xmlrpc groups support HG?<br />
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think so<br />
[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: yes,it does - though it's not really xmlrpc so much as the layer above it iirc<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the onl;y thing we talked about i dont see any Hypergrid reference in the json file<br />
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: ok, thanks<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: like bluewall told, mabey it cannot lookup the user from other grid<br />
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: how many people have 100% failure with this?<br />
[11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: cant say Ive even tried hg groups<br />
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: it happens often with me, but sometimes it does not happen.<br />
[11:19] PcTek CyberStar: i have not taken notice of the location of the other avatars.<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: most people i know i think it never worked<br />
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't have 100% faulure....from my self-hosted regions I have about 50%-75% faulure vs from one of our grid-hosted regions it's maybe 2%-5%<br />
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: ok, but is this about groups or regular IM (offline)?<br />
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I've had it fail and succeed with the same user in the same grid under the same circumstances as far as which regions we're respectively on<br />
[11:21] PcTek CyberStar: misconfiguration perhaps?<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: I would suspect that a misconfiguration would fail 100% of the time and probably give error messages<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: << console<br />
[11:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I like blamig misconfiguration often :)<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: *pilot error*<br />
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: it's probably impossible infrastructure to get right<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well yeah, I'd be inclined to agree if the ini files for both regions weren't identical<br />
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i dont see anything wrong in my case. or it's not documented<br />
[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: you effectively have to solve messaging between multiple points in a distributed system - which whole projects are dedicated to<br />
[11:23] Cuteulala Artis is Online<br />
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: it might even be soem instances of packets not getting through sometimes<br />
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the instance running on the RG server is identical to the one I run on my home server<br />
[11:23] PcTek CyberStar: well, at least it will be easy to determine if the problem is entirely random.<br />
[11:24] PcTek CyberStar: Slade, i was wondering about that myself...<br />
[11:24] PcTek CyberStar: aien are your boxes linux or windows?<br />
[11:25] PcTek CyberStar: sorry Aine<br />
[11:25] jerrys avgoustis: hi all<br />
[11:25] wearable radiooz: <br />
[11:25] jerrys avgoustis: hi all<br />
[11:25] PcTek CyberStar: Slade it would be interesting if it was linked to packet dropping.<br />
[11:26] jerrys avgoustis: what we have here?<br />
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hello jerrys<br />
[11:26] jerrys avgoustis: first time i see too much peoples<br />
[11:26] jerrys avgoustis: :)<br />
[11:26] jerrys avgoustis: let me add some peoples<br />
[11:26] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7556 appears to be a configuration issue, we use 4k x 4k regions<br />
[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: this is the weekly opensim dev meeting<br />
[11:27] PcTek CyberStar: what about this... when I had problems on sL, with packet dropping, i could start a linux box and run 3 separate instances of mtr, and point each instance at a sim in sL that had great stats, this tertiary packet stream, caused routers along the hop-path using a.i. to sort of favorite me, and my packetloss would drop to 0, while the rest of atlantis suffered intermittent connectivity. there's a windows version called winmtr as well.<br />
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the Rg-hosted region is mono, mine is .NET<br />
[11:28] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: mtr = my traceroute?<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi is Online<br />
[11:29] PcTek CyberStar: yes Dahlia. for some reason 1 instance would kick me off faster, 2 would stabilize, and 3 would reduce my home networks packet loss to 0<br />
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: hey everyone sorry I spaced out<br />
[11:29] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: hey Neb<br />
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: hello nebadon<br />
[11:30] Jack Lemon: HI Neb<br />
[11:30] PcTek CyberStar: somet<br />
[11:30] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 chastises neb for tardyness...<br />
[11:30] PcTek CyberStar: something like mtr sim8742.agni.lindenlabs.com etc.<br />
[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I see frame times are out of whack now<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya man I cant beleive i forgot lol<br />
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ah well<br />
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: ohh the stats are applied.<br />
[11:30] BlueWall Slade: those are supposed to be real times<br />
[11:31] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: very slow viewer frame rates can also affect packet loss<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have seen that too<br />
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: when i try to run too many bots<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i cannot say that 20+ most aroun df60fps on empty sims or higher is slow<br />
[11:32] Jack Lemon: What are your server params?<br />
[11:33] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no thats probably not slow :)<br />
[11:34] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Off to another meeting, just wanted to add that very large regions have issues, but TP is not one of them, at least for us. BFN<br />
[11:34] PcTek CyberStar: well we all know ctrl shft 1 can show fps and packetloss in the viewer, so look at that when it happens.<br />
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tup, waitinbg for the panic. it's only 11fps :O<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: Justin have you gotten my emails about Libomv?<br />
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, I was completely driven off all week. I am looking now<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what problem billy.<br />
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: k cool<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and whats large ?<br />
[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: but I am confused as to why you would want to point libomv.opensimulator.org at vhost.sourceforge.net<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: because baba didnt pay the openmetaverse.org domain renewal<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and some jerk snagged it<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and now its homeless<br />
[11:36] ladyjo martin is Online<br />
[11:36] PcTek CyberStar: oo<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: lkalif has it running on sourceforge<br />
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but vhost.sourceforge.net just looks like the vhost project<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and we want to revive the libomv website<br />
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: nothing to do with libomv afaik<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: it uses vhost names resolution<br />
[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, it might be best just to drop to the github page<br />
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: you can not just fake it out<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that means recreating everything on github<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its already setup on sourceforge<br />
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: what was of value on the website? wiki doc?<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its just a free web host<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: did he find the docs?<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: the enitre site is still running there<br />
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: they just lost the domain name<br />
[11:38] BlueWall Slade: honestly, the best docs on that is just to use TestClient to sort out what happens in there.<br />
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: right, but go to vhost.sourceforget.net and you'll see it's just a template webpage<br />
[11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I thought many of the docs were quite old<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: he set it so it will resolve for libomv.opensimulator.org if we set it<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats becasue it uses name resolution<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you cnat just load that page<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: it uses apache vhost to redirect to proper website<br />
[11:38] Jack Lemon: Actually I met problems you just told about. untill i rise RAM and got a dual core CPU, so now i have no problems anymore, Sorry for delayed coments as the connection i am using at the moment is a bit slow 3G<br />
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: but I would have thought you would just use the relevant sourceforge project page<br />
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats not how it works<br />
[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: http://libomv.sourceforge.net/<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: nevermind<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: just leave it then<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: will remain dead i guess<br />
[11:39] PcTek CyberStar: hummm<br />
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't mind doing it, but I don't see how this could work. I'm probably being think<br />
[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: thick<br />
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: are you sure openmetaverse.org is not in lock mode. so the owner can still renew it ?<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: apache vhosts<br />
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: work by domain name<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: you cant just load the vhost page, its a redirect according the domain<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: you set it up in the back end<br />
[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: let me just do it. The worst that can happen is that it doesn't work<br />
[11:40] PcTek CyberStar: openmetaverse.org says account is suspended.<br />
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/name-based.html<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: oh wow<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lkalif got it back it seems<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: he said he offered the guy 200$<br />
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: hahah<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: he must have accepted it<br />
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wow<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: amazing<br />
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: \o/<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i never thought in a million years that would happen<br />
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: thats crazy<br />
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: 200 is better than 0<br />
[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm surprised lkalif would pay for it at all<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: seems like libomv site is still dead<br />
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: do you stil want me to do the cname records?<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: sounds like his heath is improving<br />
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: let me see if he is around<br />
[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be good<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: he said he was without a computer since January, he just got a new laptop<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: he is still in the Hospital but said he was improving<br />
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good news<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I am shocked he got the domain back<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that never happens heh<br />
[11:44] BlueWall Slade: domain squatters are almost as bad as cell phone cos.<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: he doesnt seem to be responding at the moment<br />
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i'll shoot you another email but it seems uneccessary now<br />
[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, let me just put the entries in anyway<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: sure<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: ya not like it cost us anything<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: worst case we just drop them later if they arent needed<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully lkalif owns it now<br />
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: apparantly Baba owned it previously<br />
[11:46] PcTek CyberStar: maybe set that up on autopay somewhere?<br />
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: You should have owner level access to the github project now too Justin, you and diva<br />
[11:46] PcTek CyberStar: so the domain name is not ransomed off for a higher price next time<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: Baba really hasnt been involved for a long time, no doubt lkalif will handle things well<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: ++<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: just one of those things that got forgotten about i suspect<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even with autopay, credit cards expire<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: I am glad he added Justin and Christa as admins though<br />
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: no gauranteee<br />
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: glad we dont use creditcards here much<br />
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: cannot get one anyway<br />
[11:48] PcTek CyberStar: you can set up a once a year autopayment from a checking account.<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: haha, I remember Microsoft's domain name expired once when they first went online<br />
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: hmm brb my doorbell is ringing<br />
[11:49] BlueWall Slade: I immagine that they paid up front for 4-5 years or something.<br />
[11:49] BlueWall Slade: back when they were gung-ho<br />
[11:50] PcTek CyberStar: iana frowns on dn profiteering especially against .orgs<br />
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, things were different in those days :)<br />
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: hhah no kidding<br />
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: back, mailman had to sign<br />
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: silkroad or newegg? LOL<br />
[11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: signed packadges., that only can be nice stuff<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya Justin not sure if you noticed too but Diva had found a bug in some code you wrote back in Octorber<br />
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: or a drug bust!<br />
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: was pretty nasty<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: was preventing taking content from Linux to Windows regions over HG<br />
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: Unfortunately I am still extremely behind on e-mail<br />
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: man<br />
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: she backported it to 0.8.1 post fixes<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if your 100 mails behinmd i think you never get ahead :O<br />
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm, only 450 e-mails behind<br />
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: heh<br />
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: that will take a day or two to clear out :)<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=877371411a9e997b0b11f45c410438ae2bb73f16<br />
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: here is the patch<br />
[11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I have 26600 unread emails in my gmail acct :)<br />
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: :)<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br />
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: sound like a telephone dialtone<br />
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: irgh, looks like another SDK difference between windows and mono<br />
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: where the same methods behave differently even thuogh they shouldn't<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: something to take care of while having your morning coffee, Dahlia<br />
[11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: mmmm coffee...<br />
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya if i recall what diva said mono just seemed to ignore the problem<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: https://modemworld.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/lab-confirms-sansar-is-the-new-virtual-platforms-interim-name/<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have one more issue.....<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only one ? :)<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I updated to the latest FS version released Sunday....now when I log in there is a delay of about 1 minutes until fetch begins, and then even though my inventory is fully fetch the "fetching...." doesn't resolve itself for about 5 more minues<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there some message FS is expecting to receive from the region?<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: who knows?<br />
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (and of course it still hangs 100$ of the time if I log into my own regions)<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: no one told us if there is .<br />
[11:57] Cuteulala Artis: Fs causes a firestorm between you and the simulator :P<br />
[11:57] mattie mcbride is Offline<br />
[11:58] Cuteulala Artis: i get a freeze up like lock up everything freeze for a 5 secs when teleporting into a region<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: is that an alpha?<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Lkalif said that LL made some Inventory changes<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no viewer can log into my own region without inventory fetch hanging.,....when I log into a grid-hosted region is will complete the fetch for all viewers<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: +=<br />
[11:58] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: public beta now<br />
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I see LL are going to drop their linux support<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: they are dropping a bunch of UDP packets<br />
[11:58] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 has to go, bye all :)<br />
[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: sort of Justin<br />
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: they arent totally dropping it<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: That is sad<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: they are just putting it on the community<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but as of Sunday's FS release it's taking 5-6 minutes to *think* it finished the fetch vs what used to take about 10 seconds<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: they will accept linux patches and keep their linux build system going<br />
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: but they wont put much time or effort into bringing new stuff into that viewer<br />
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: Aine, that would be good to take up with the Firestoprm project ...<br />
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so I was just wondering how the viewer determines that fetch has finished?<br />
[11:59] Cuteulala Artis: another reason windows is better then linux<br />
[11:59] Cuteulala Artis: Kidding :P<br />
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: they could tell you if anything changed and alert us so we can adapt.<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: I wouldnt worry to much about it<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of the new stuff LL is doing doesnt have much bearing on OpenSim anyway<br />
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: yup<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: windows.. uhmm sometimes i gte in doubt<br />
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: hahahah<br />
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: alot of that stuff wont have any effect on OpenSim at all for the most part<br />
[12:00] OtakuMegane Desu: OpenSim has its own path for the future<br />
[12:00] PcTek CyberStar: windows = over 2,000,000 viruses/trojans/spyware linux is what.. under 100 ?<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dont worry cute (hi) i use windows sofar<br />
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but on linux not much works<br />
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: i was kidding<br />
[12:00] PcTek CyberStar: if you are going to bring up a sim, probably much more secure to do it on linux. <wink><br />
[12:01] Cuteulala Artis: i knew it start a win.lin war hahaah<br />
[12:01] mattie mcbride is Online<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: until opensim has its own viewer, it might not be a bad idea for there to be dialog between the TPV and the core devs<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: so Aine your saying Inventory takes longer now on new FIrestorm?<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the actual fetch seems to be about the same<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have not tried FS for a lobng time. is lowering bandwidth not helping ?<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: network slider<br />
[12:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: wonde if FS has fixed the var region map problems, i bet not<br />
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but switching from saying "fetching" to think that it has finished is taking a *lot* longer<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: cause Lkalif said Oz emailed him a few weeks ago and said they were removing a bunch of UDP packets related to inventory from the viewer code<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: in favor of their new delivery system<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I wonder if that hit Firestorm<br />
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: LL’s AISv3 code a<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if I hjaven't made sure my fetch has finished and I tp to one of my own regions it will crash the region if fetch isn't finished<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: maybe cause some changes<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: but ya I would suggest bringing that back to their devs<br />
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if the hang for fetch wasn't happening then I wouldn't need to worry about it so much<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but at present I *have* to wait for fetch to finish<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: atleast see if they can determine where the problem is<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: you have to wait to teleport until it finishes fetching?<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ive seen that kind of happen with Singularity before too<br />
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because if fetch isn't finished and I go to one of my own regions it tries to finish the fetch from there<br />
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: this might be a fundamental architectural problem<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it will start to generate 5k fetch requests per minute until I log out<br />
[12:04] PcTek CyberStar: whoah<br />
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: or a bug because opensim doesn't understand how the new changes work<br />
[12:04] BlueWall Slade: I gues the change is that LL has moved inventory away from the region and onto a content delivery network?<br />
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: actually more likely the latter in this case<br />
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which I reported a long time ago and which Bluewall and I spent a Sunday afternoon testing on his sim<br />
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I had it happen to me a few days ago when testing the bug that diva fixed for inventory transfer<br />
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: the thing with LL is that they can assume the backend services being used are always the same<br />
[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: wherease you can't at all with hg<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes bluewall. sofar i understand the did<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i logged into my local linux grid with cache cleared<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: all of which was posted to mantis<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and teleported before inventory was done<br />
[12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: CDN/ meh<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and all hell broke loose on the remote region<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yep<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i got all kinds of messages about couldnt contact inventory service or something<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: I was using Replex<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you stand there for about 5 minutes you'll crash the region<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: well i ended up logging out<br />
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: I believe that things like that will be pretty hard to deal with.<br />
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it will happen with all TPV I have tried it with<br />
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: because my inventory wasnt actually downloading anymore<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it sends a fetch request, gets a respoinse, then asks for it again<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and does it 5k times per minue<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *minute<br />
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is just a little bit nasty on sim traffic<br />
[12:06] BlueWall Slade: it was actually fetching the inventory many times ...<br />
[12:06] Cuteulala Artis: seems they release updates without even testing it and assume it will work<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya i only watched for maybe a minute total and killed everything and restarted<br />
[12:06] BlueWall Slade: But, Diva said taht a student found an issue.<br />
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think its a firestorm problem<br />
[12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you're lucky the region will recover after a while<br />
[12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: otherwise you have to restart it<br />
[12:07] BlueWall Slade: And I guess that was taken care of?<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and Cuteulala the new firestorm is a beta<br />
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its not a release<br />
[12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so....until that bug is fixed I cannot tp to my own regions until inventory fetch is finished<br />
[12:07] Cuteulala Artis: i still on 4.6.9<br />
[12:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the called it beta because the want to add more things soon. the new Yuck. marketplace stuff.<br />
[12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and now it's taking 5-6 minutes for FS to think that the fetch is done<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok so that is what is different on firestorm<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right...on 4.6.8<br />
[12:08] PcTek CyberStar: wow imagine the impact on the asset server, getting all those messages...<br />
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with 4.6.8 it was only taking about 10-20 seconds<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: its inventory<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: not assets<br />
[12:08] PcTek CyberStar: yes inventory server i mean<br />
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: not that its any better but different service<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: the problem I think is<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: it may not actually be hitting the inventory server<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: the message i recall seeming to get<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: was that it couldnt reach the inventory server<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: I assumed it was a hung thread, comms stopped or something<br />
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt pay it much mind because i was in a rush to test the patch diva was doing<br />
[12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7054 but I'd been reporting it for a couple nonths in dev meetings prior to the date I logged it<br />
[12:09] BlueWall Slade: when I checked it, it fetched the items several times over.<br />
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: Diva said there were competing threads causing it to hang<br />
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: I don't know if that was patched.<br />
[12:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes....it fetches the same items over and over gain<br />
[12:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and gets the responses<br />
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: << or if it may have been wiped over, which sometimes happens.<br />
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: looks like FS dont get end of invetory message<br />
[12:11] PcTek CyberStar: so basiclaly when teleporting if inventory is loading, that needs to be stopped when the agent leaves that sim. that connection needs to be closed immediately.<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a serious problem if you're trying to host a party and someone crashes and just relogs directly to the sim<br />
[12:11] PcTek CyberStar: but how to do it? there must be a way to set a shorter timeout.<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = party ties<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *dies<br />
[12:11] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 44b8b9f: 2015-05-04 16:23:16 -0400 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[12:11] PcTek CyberStar: maybe an active check for the agent presence, and if not there, terminate any inventory request immediately?<br />
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and there's no way to prevent a relog<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i'll have to test it again<br />
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i recall seeing something different than what is in this mantis thread<br />
[12:12] BlueWall Slade: But, if this changed in the most recent release, then it is an issue for Firestorm - at least to give feedback as to whether we need to make a change.<br />
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya I pretty much never use firestorm ill have to download it<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for the most recent thing, yes<br />
[12:13] PcTek CyberStar: if ((agent != here)) && (inventory downloading)) { cout << "close request for inventory load" << endl; }<br />
[12:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sngularity is not updated sofar i know. or already did ?<br />
[12:13] BlueWall Slade: yes, forget the old thing, because I thin that was fixed.<br />
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's fine, Neb...but FS ios >50% of the TPV market so there are maybe a few Opensim users who use it<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea I just mean I havent experienced any of this<br />
[12:14] BlueWall Slade: Yes - please report the issue to them.<br />
[12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so might be useful to have some dialog happening between core devs of the two groups instead of via a go-between<br />
[12:14] wearable radiooz: <br />
[12:14] BlueWall Slade: and I don't kow -maybe link it to a new OpenSim mantis?<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: I have no idea how to even reach them<br />
[12:14] BlueWall Slade: lol, it would<br />
[12:14] BlueWall Slade: but ...<br />
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: they seem unwilling to come to IRC<br />
[12:15] PcTek CyberStar: jessica lyons maybe?<br />
[12:15] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: 59% of people that visit spellscape use FS<br />
[12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would help avoid the broken telephone system<br />
[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, fs don't use irc - they hang out in LL world only afaik<br />
[12:15] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: 29% singularity<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: the only time i ever spoke with Jesicca is at OSCC<br />
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: for a couple of weeks, yes.<br />
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: not once have I ever seen them outside of OSCC anywhere<br />
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: they got off on the web viewr tangent ...<br />
[12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they're in LFG a lot<br />
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: no Linux 64 builds :/<br />
[12:15] OtakuMegane Desu: I've seen Jessica around every so often in IRC but not frequently<br />
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: yes<br />
[12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway,m if you want me to report it, sure<br />
[12:16] BlueWall Slade: but LFG does not develop OpenSim<br />
[12:16] PcTek CyberStar: internet relay chat?<br />
[12:16] PcTek CyberStar: ok jessica could make it happen.<br />
[12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but Im' useless compared to having a dev talking to them<br />
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not going to LFG heh<br />
[12:16] BlueWall Slade: if they make changes that break OpenSim, then they need to give us a heads up, or accept bug reports from users ...<br />
[12:17] BlueWall Slade: We can't anticipate what they are going to do.<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: I am all for having more dialog with them, I talk with Tank_Master from time to time<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: he is the only FS dev I know really<br />
[12:17] BlueWall Slade: If they brand a viewr with OpenSim, then it should by all means work in OpenSim<br />
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: but I havent seen him around much at all lately<br />
[12:17] PcTek CyberStar: they're not legally obligated, and the additional work of anticipating such issues, let alone responding to them, would require a full time salaried individual --> that goodwill will not pay for.<br />
[12:17] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if nobody used FS on Opensim, from the sound of it this particular case has a malicious potential too if it's crashing regions.<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: I use it all the time<br />
[12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, exactly<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: but, it sux atm<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: can't upload files,m etc.<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: we cant rely on viewer fixes for that honestly<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: no export<br />
[12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the inventory fetch is NOT a FS bug<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: it is all broken.<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: the simulator needs to be able to deal with anything the viewer throws at it<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: because even if firestorm fixes it<br />
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt mean people will update<br />
[12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: True<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: Aine - if it changes between release then it is<br />
[12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's only the latest change that makes it slower to report that fetch has finished<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and if someone wants to be destructive<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: they will just use the old version<br />
[12:19] PcTek CyberStar: i use henry beauchamps cool vl viewer, b/c it's more stable and lighter for me than even kokua. i like kokua, but it crashes on me a lot. firestorm and singularity, for me, on the same system, are as lethargic as molasses running an up hill race.<br />
[12:19] BlueWall Slade: If they introduce changes that affect OpenSim then it's a bug that can only be addressed by them<br />
[12:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no...fetch hanging and killing sim happens with FS, Singularity, Kokua, etc and with versions of it ghoing back 1+ year<br />
[12:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so it's NOT a FS-exlusive bug<br />
[12:19] BlueWall Slade: ether fixing it, or giving us a clue about what to expect.<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya we need to make sure the simulator can handle whatever gets thrown at it<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: regardless of the viewer<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: never trust a viewer<br />
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: ever<br />
[12:19] BlueWall Slade: hmmm<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: that is our philosophy and should be<br />
[12:20] BlueWall Slade: you said that the behavior changed with the last release<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: however that siad the viewer should also never trust the simulator<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br />
[12:20] BlueWall Slade: ?<br />
[12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I didn't have to be 100% sure that fetch was finished I wouldn't care about the latest FS bug in being slow in telling me that fetch is finished<br />
[12:20] Nebadon Izumi: both sides should be optimal if possible in an ideal world<br />
[12:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Well the viewer is a user thing so it gets less trust. :P<br />
[12:21] PcTek CyberStar: trust is only the ability to handle the damages of a broken confidentiality in a relationship.<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: well what I mean is they should both be able to carry on no matter what happens, though thats not always possible<br />
[12:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yuckm coolVL<br />
[12:21] BlueWall Slade: Another thing, do a regression test on OpenSim by jumping back a month or so<br />
[12:21] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer should not be able to cripple the simulator<br />
[12:21] BlueWall Slade: See if the issue has changed.<br />
[12:21] BlueWall Slade: Because code sometimes changes here too.<br />
[12:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a single, latent viewer connection can cripple a simulator too<br />
[12:21] BlueWall Slade: Fixes get overwritten, etc.<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: going back a year sometimes isnt so easy though<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: migrations and such<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: a month<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: a few release<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: Aine said a 1+ year<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: ohh<br />
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: unless i misread<br />
[12:22] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps stay behind the bleeding edge by 6 months... after all, there is a reason those people are bleeding.<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: I just said to go back a month or soe to see if the issue is there.<br />
[12:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Hva ethere been any major migrations or such in the last year or so?<br />
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: "[12:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no...fetch hanging and killing sim happens with FS, Singularity, Kokua, etc and with versions of it ghoing back 1+ year"<br />
[12:23] BlueWall Slade: because when there is a change that causes a bug, then it has to be located with as much good information as possible.<br />
[12:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well over a year<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: well, forget that<br />
[12:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunately thats not so easy<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: I am pretty sure Diva made a fix<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: you said that the latest Firestorm did it ...<br />
[12:24] Nebadon Izumi: what we need is a way to recreate it<br />
[12:24] OtakuMegane Desu: ^<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: So, keep it in that timeframe<br />
[12:24] Nebadon Izumi: it sounds like we have that<br />
[12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I filed the report in Mantis in March 2014 but I'd been talking about it in dev meetings for a few months before that<br />
[12:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Ok, what exactly is needed to recreate it?<br />
[12:24] Nebadon Izumi: Im pretty sure I could recreate it, I think i did accidetly a few days ago<br />
[12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so would be sometime around Dec 2013<br />
[12:25] BlueWall Slade: That is not what we are talking about here ...<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: log in with large inventory and cache cleared<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: teleport before inventory finishes<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: and boom<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: goes the dynamite<br />
[12:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which, as you'll recall, is when Melanie dropped all those code changes<br />
[12:25] OtakuMegane Desu: 24k big enough inv?<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: my test avatar i experienced it with has 27k<br />
[12:25] BlueWall Slade: So, what does this have to do with the latest Firestorm release?<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: HG teleport?<br />
[12:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nothing<br />
[12:25] Nebadon Izumi: Aine does local tp do it too?<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: for me it was a HG<br />
[12:26] BlueWall Slade: that is what the issue was when it was brought up.<br />
[12:26] BlueWall Slade: The latest Firestorm release does xxxxx.<br />
[12:26] PcTek CyberStar: since my current inventory holdings are under 1500 perhaps i should try it to objectively disassociate a minimalist viewpoint and determine if occurrs regardless of your hoarding size.<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: Firestorm has a cherry on top<br />
[12:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only thing about the new FS release that is relevant is that with the current Opensim fetch bug I can't leave a grid-hosted region until fetch is finished<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: inventory fetch hangs<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: so you have to wait very long before you can teleprot<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: longer than otehr veiwers<br />
[12:26] BlueWall Slade: ok, that is new?<br />
[12:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[12:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya that is the new part<br />
[12:26] OtakuMegane Desu: When doing the tp, is it origin or target region that crashes?<br />
[12:26] BlueWall Slade: then it needs to be located<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: is it opensim or is it firestorm?<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: opensim go back a few days/weeks<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya that I suspect needs to start with the Firestorm devs<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: since old version isnt doing it<br />
[12:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the new thing with FS -- which is a FS bug or a new LL-imposed bug -- is that it's taking longer to report that the fetch has finished<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: is it there, then it's firestorrm<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: obviously something changed not on our end<br />
[12:27] PcTek CyberStar: i think this should have a high priority due to the possibility of creating massive havoc.<br />
[12:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the actual fetch itself in a grid-hosted region is happening extremely quickly<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: i fit's firestorm file a report with them, and possibly one wiht OpenSim linking the two.<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: PcTek, even if we fix it<br />
[12:27] Nebadon Izumi: people are slow on the uptake<br />
[12:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I have to be *sure* that fetch finishes so I don't kill my own (or someone else's) sim<br />
[12:28] Nebadon Izumi: but ya would be good to see what is going on there<br />
[12:28] BlueWall Slade: it must be located<br />
[12:28] BlueWall Slade: time is very scarce ....<br />
[12:28] BlueWall Slade: we cant chase unknow ghoses.<br />
[12:28] PcTek CyberStar: what about enforcing everyone running windows 98 to upgrade to at least xp.<br />
[12:28] BlueWall Slade: we can't fix viewer issues or issues that pop up because of unknown changes.<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: lol, No Windows here at all<br />
[12:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: weel you and I spent an afternoon in OSG testing it on your region and recording zillions of stats on it, Bluewall<br />
[12:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so....<br />
[12:29] Nebadon Izumi: forcing people to upgrade causes more havok than the problem itself<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: Aine, please ...<br />
[12:29] PcTek CyberStar: i mean by this, what about dropping sims that are running versions so old, that fossilized remains of flat characters can be viewed in the terrain.<br />
[12:29] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and eat<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: Diva said a student found the issue<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: So, we need to see if that was applied<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: Thanks Justine<br />
[12:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i need a break too<br />
[12:30] BlueWall Slade: Justin *<br />
[12:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye justin<br />
[12:30] Justin Clark-Casey: don't know how much I will be avalable again this week. Hopefully a bit more but not guaranteed<br />
[12:30] BlueWall Slade: have a good week ahead.<br />
[12:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a good week, Justin<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: I can tell you that a lot of this stuff is going to be addressed soon hopefully<br />
[12:30] Justin Clark-Casey: bye, folks<br />
[12:30] PcTek CyberStar: bye justin.<br />
[12:30] Kayaker Magic: bye<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to happen fast though<br />
[12:30] BlueWall Slade: She said that 2 threads were competing with the inventory fetch and were killing it off.<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: but this stats change that Moses has given us<br />
[12:30] PcTek CyberStar: did you get it? no did you get it? no did you get it? no did you get it?<br />
[12:30] Nebadon Izumi: is phase 1 of like 100 phases of improving opensimulator performance<br />
[12:31] BlueWall Slade: hopefully it will<br />
[12:31] BlueWall Slade: :)<br />
[12:31] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline<br />
[12:31] OtakuMegane Desu: Thread baaattle!! FIGHT!<br />
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: but its time consuming work and will probably move at a snails pace<br />
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: if we go to fast the result will be bad<br />
[12:31] BlueWall Slade: Nebadon - do you remember if Diva did a fix for the inventory?<br />
[12:31] Nebadon Izumi: fly to fast and your radar is useless<br />
[12:32] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps a production grid, and a test grid are not bad ideas after all.<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think so<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: ohhh<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: Maybe we need to ask her about it<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: they were just doing analysis for a thesis or something<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: because she did say that they found an issues<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think any patches cam out of that work<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya the only patch i recall<br />
[12:32] PcTek CyberStar: discovery only then.<br />
[12:32] Nebadon Izumi: was one that went to LL Jira<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: ok, if she can hit us with a clue stick<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: and I believe got pushed into their viewer<br />
[12:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm sorry to be a bitch about it but this stuff affects the average user and average setup quite a lot so, while you folks aren't encountering it a lot, many of the non-pro users are....and most of them don't even know what's happening so they just think that the region is badly hosted or whatever<br />
[12:33] BlueWall Slade: no this is in OpenSim<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: it was related to avatar updates<br />
[12:33] Cuteulala Artis: see yall soon not feeling well so i go rest at my home sim and lock pc<br />
[12:33] BlueWall Slade: it's ok Aine<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya it effected OpenSim<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: but the bug was deep in the LL code<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: it even effected SL<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: basically something about an avatar standing still<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: generating 1000s of updates per minute<br />
[12:33] Nebadon Izumi: when it was idle even<br />
[12:33] BlueWall Slade: we need this to work well, but we have to expect that the viewr team will have answers if a new update makes issues.<br />
[12:34] Jeeper Shim is Online<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: these issues are not easily solved<br />
[12:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sure<br />
[12:34] BlueWall Slade: yes, that was a little different.<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: not something we can resolve in an afternoon likely<br />
[12:34] BlueWall Slade: we need to ask her about the inventory thing.<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: unless somsone spots and oh shit bug<br />
[12:34] Nebadon Izumi: which is possble but we gotta find it first<br />
[12:34] PcTek CyberStar: an alternative technique toward mitigating undesirable effects of rapid adoption and transition toward so called improvements should be implemented grids wide, either have a production/test environment or delay being on the frontlines.<br />
[12:35] BlueWall Slade: if that student gave her enough info, maybe it will be a pretty quick fix.<br />
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: PcTek thats easy to say<br />
[12:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the actual issue is one that pre-dates the viewer change.....the viewer change just makes it that much more annoying to wait for inventory fetch to complete on a region that's capable of doing the fetch<br />
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: very difficult to acheive<br />
[12:35] Cuteulala Artis is Offline<br />
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: requires more money for hardware, more people, more time<br />
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: none of which exists<br />
[12:35] BlueWall Slade: PcTek - we are all on the bleeding edge here.<br />
[12:35] PcTek CyberStar: and that's the reason we are bleeding.<br />
[12:35] PcTek CyberStar: XD<br />
[12:35] Nebadon Izumi: is SL any better?<br />
[12:35] BlueWall Slade: this is where the blade hits the bone :)<br />
[12:35] Jeeper Shim is Offline<br />
[12:36] PcTek CyberStar: oww my pancreas!<br />
[12:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: fortunately it looks like MOSES will be doing some triage<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: is my response<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:36] BlueWall Slade: SL sucked bad last time I was there,lol<br />
[12:36] OtakuMegane Desu: SL is a mess. Always is. :P<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes but they do everything PcTek says<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: does it help?<br />
[12:36] BlueWall Slade: but, we don't need to try to be as good as SL<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: the answer is no<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: it only makes for more problems<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: becasue the problem is<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: test grids<br />
[12:36] BlueWall Slade: we need to be as good as we can be<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: dont see the level of use s a production grid<br />
[12:36] Nebadon Izumi: so everything looks fine and dandy in thest mode<br />
[12:37] PcTek CyberStar: so i provided more than one option.<br />
[12:37] Nebadon Izumi: you push it to production and l the bolts fly off<br />
[12:37] PcTek CyberStar: my other idea, was delay taking up the latest code LL spits out.<br />
[12:37] OtakuMegane Desu: OSGrid is a sort of mix of production, test and dev. There's stuff from all types strewn about. :)<br />
[12:37] PcTek CyberStar: let LL work out the bugs.<br />
[12:37] Nebadon Izumi: PcTek Opensimulator doesnt use code LL spits out<br />
[12:37] Nebadon Izumi: that is viewer side<br />
[12:37] Nebadon Izumi: we have no control over that<br />
[12:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and viewers *have* to update to the LL code branch<br />
[12:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if they "break" something they might not be able to unbreak it<br />
[12:38] OtakuMegane Desu: LL can't figure out how to not water down physics without breaking half their features. I'm not inclined to trust them to fix a lot of issues.<br />
[12:38] PcTek CyberStar: so you are saying it's a viewer issue, and not a server issue?<br />
[12:38] Nebadon Izumi: anyway we need patience<br />
[12:38] BlueWall Slade: They may update to SL code, but if they claim that they are OpenSim compatible, then they should aspire to give as good a user experience in OpenSim<br />
[12:39] PcTek CyberStar: maybe i misunderstood that.<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: these things will get fixed<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunatley never as fast as we want them too<br />
[12:39] BlueWall Slade: after all - we are all they will have when SL hits 2.0<br />
[12:39] PcTek CyberStar: mmm.<br />
[12:39] PcTek CyberStar: i see your point Nebadon<br />
[12:39] OtakuMegane Desu: And nobody knows exactly what 2.0 is going to be. Or if it will get anywhere once it's released<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: we can only move so fast with the team of volunteers we have<br />
[12:39] BlueWall Slade: to me it looked like a spiffy version of IMVU<br />
[12:39] Talun -: this High Fidelity?<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: we cant tell anyone they have to do anything<br />
[12:39] Nebadon Izumi: becasue thats not how it works<br />
[12:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if put between a rock and a hard place, every single TPV is going to drop "opensim compatible" from their propeganda<br />
[12:40] Nebadon Izumi: there is no director of operations telling people what to do<br />
[12:40] BlueWall Slade: We all have private projects and we bring parts of that back to core to form as mostly complete kit<br />
[12:40] Nebadon Izumi: if that happens we are stuck with the last version that works<br />
[12:40] Nebadon Izumi: and we never have to worry about thnigs changing anymore :)<br />
[12:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe<br />
[12:41] PcTek CyberStar: :)<br />
[12:41] PcTek CyberStar hugs Nebadon<br />
[12:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I *almost* wish that would happen<br />
[12:41] BlueWall Slade: haha<br />
[12:41] OtakuMegane Desu: Another reason to hope a real Opensim viewer can be worked out eventually.<br />
[12:41] BlueWall Slade: I wish that some group would want to amke a 100% OpenSim viewer and forget about SL<br />
[12:41] PcTek CyberStar: hmmm<br />
[12:41] BlueWall Slade: if that happened, then we could work with them.<br />
[12:41] Nebadon Izumi: we have started that<br />
[12:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one will be eventually....at some point in the future SL will pull the plug on SL1.0<br />
[12:41] Nebadon Izumi: but there is not much interest so far<br />
[12:41] Nebadon Izumi: with OnLook<br />
[12:42] Nebadon Izumi: viewer devs are very few<br />
[12:42] BlueWall Slade: I am interested in it, but I'm no viewer dev.<br />
[12:42] Nebadon Izumi: id be surprised if there was a dozen total left<br />
[12:42] Nebadon Izumi: between all TPVs<br />
[12:42] BlueWall Slade: I'm an everything else dev thoughj, lol<br />
[12:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Coding ability is a limited resource and those willing to deal with something like a viewer even more so.<br />
[12:42] Nebadon Izumi: most of the TPV devs<br />
[12:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: just keeping up with LL's changes probably keeps them all overworked already<br />
[12:42] Nebadon Izumi: dont fix many bugs other than ones they create<br />
[12:43] Nebadon Izumi: the core viewer bugs mostly get left to LL<br />
[12:43] Nebadon Izumi: the deep engine stuff<br />
[12:43] Nebadon Izumi: the TPVs are GUI and Skin changes for the most part<br />
[12:43] Nebadon Izumi: occasionally cool stuff comes<br />
[12:43] PcTek CyberStar: i agree<br />
[12:43] Nebadon Izumi: but a lot of the time they are just mainting visual changes<br />
[12:43] Nebadon Izumi: interface stuff<br />
[12:43] BlueWall Slade: They match LL, then we are left with bug reports and guessing about what happened.<br />
[12:43] Nebadon Izumi: so in the long run<br />
[12:44] BlueWall Slade: no possible way to fix it<br />
[12:44] PcTek CyberStar: we need a spy on the inside.<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: most of the TPV devs are not much help with starting a new viewer from scratch<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: the opensimulator devs have far more experience with that than any of the TPV devs<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: like Dahlia<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: Lkalif does, but hes kind of out of the game for now<br />
[12:44] Nebadon Izumi: Diva has some experience with viewer now<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia is probably the only one besides lkalif who has written severel opensimulator viewers<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: that are not based on any LL code<br />
[12:45] BlueWall Slade: ++<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately most of them are very far from what anyone would want to use<br />
[12:45] JayMaze Yao is Online<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: all mostly conceptual test apps<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: to see what it takes<br />
[12:45] Nebadon Izumi: and if its even possible<br />
[12:46] BlueWall Slade: Blue sky development<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: starting a new viewer from scratch is like years of work<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: even HighFidelity has years to go<br />
[12:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what the heck.....I just got a script error message pop up<br />
[12:46] JayMaze Yao is Offline<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: before they have anything worthy of use<br />
[12:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.Shared.ScriptException: OSSL Runtime Error: osSetSpeed permission denied. Script creator is not in the list of users allowed to execute this function and prim owner also has no permission....<br />
[12:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how can that even happen here?<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: wierd<br />
[12:46] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its from another sim?<br />
[12:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Also have to be able to deal with whatever language a viewer is written in. Stuff like C++ is not a mild learning curve.<br />
[12:47] YouCa.nDolT @grid.atekgrid.com:8002: hi here<br />
[12:47] Nebadon Izumi: i didntsee any script errors pop up<br />
[12:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nnopte...from Plaza<br />
[12:47] lavender -pretty: i got that script error too aine..<br />
[12:47] lavender -pretty: hello!<br />
[12:47] lavender -pretty: lol<br />
[12:47] BlueWall Slade: you have freebies here Aine?<br />
[12:47] Nebadon Izumi: more firestorm buggage?<br />
[12:47] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br />
[12:47] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt see any messages<br />
[12:47] BlueWall Slade: me either<br />
[12:47] lavender -pretty: wellwe are testing out their new viewer<br />
[12:47] OtakuMegane Desu: No error here either.<br />
[12:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya wierd<br />
[12:48] Nebadon Izumi: maybe a hud someone is wearing<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-04-28Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-282015-10-25T22:50:35Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[11:00] Zxman.Sinclair @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: wb<br />
[11:00] Allen Kerensky: Zxman Sinclair - that's an approved name right there - I have a TS 2068 myself - but Z80 is Z80 right? lol<br />
[11:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
[11:01] Allen Kerensky: (this is to mess with Neb) even if the Z80 is slow as molasses compared to the MOS6502<br />
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks<br />
[11:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh hey Justin<br />
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: Hello<br />
[11:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: glad to see you made it :)<br />
[11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: heloo Justin<br />
[11:01] Allen Kerensky: howdy Justin hope RL is starting to relent some for you<br />
[11:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: wasnt sure if you were still alive :)<br />
[11:02] Zxman.Sinclair @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: zx80 my first computer<br />
[11:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi bluewall<br />
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: still alive, just about :)<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: Hello<br />
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: still busy but a fraction more time right now<br />
[11:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hee justin<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: any news bluewall ?<br />
[11:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I guess you saw some of the interaction wiht MOSES devs<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi sarah<br />
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: was thjinking that you got married or somethnig like that<br />
[11:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i have dubbed it "Statspocolypse" :)<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Married with the pc bluewall :)<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Bluewall, after today's meeting if you have 30 seconds I would be happy take you over to my sim and demonstrate what I'm talking about<br />
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't look at mailing lists at all - I had to preserve all my attention for other things.<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: ok Aine<br />
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: just reading a bit now<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you can watch an entire mesh building move when I touch the door to open it<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: RiRa, news about the non-standard avatars?<br />
[11:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 waves quietly hello to everybody<br />
[11:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh so there is a scripted door involved Aine?<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bluewall, did you checked the HG offlineIm problem more ?<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: Aine, maybe your sims are haunted?<br />
[11:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, i have finaly managed to reproduce the problem and i have an idea why, i think<br />
[11:04] Shez Oyen: Hi Sheera :)<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it also happens when I use a touch-to tp in-region teleporter<br />
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: RiRa no, sorry, not yet.<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok.<br />
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: I am still trying to get my dev machine setup.<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you need to be standing close to it and fairly zoomed in on your camera<br />
[11:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I made a video yesterday testing Moses stats patch to make sure physics reporting is working well, seemed to be ok so far<br />
[11:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: https://www.youtube.com/embed/IBaGL2XooiQ?rel=0&autoplay=1;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=1;vq=hd1080;<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that way there's an appreciable movement of the object under your cursor when it activates<br />
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which I *think* is being interpreted as a grab to move<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I was saying on IRC earlier, for years ive been finding things here moved around<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: at Wright Plaza<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: mostly vendors<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: usually in single axis<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i inspect and see whos it is and go to move it back, only to find it slids perfectly back to the spot it came from<br />
[11:07] BlueWall Slade: I have never seen that<br />
[11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ive only seen it about maybe 8-10 times here in the past 3 years or so<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for me it was trying to figure out initially why my tp stand in Hedonism moved about 4-5m every time I touched it<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its very rare<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i havent seen it happen in a while<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can reproduce it reliably with the doors to the building I made though<br />
[11:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i have, seems to happen while no one is there, couple of times we had buildings move one meter to the north or south<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: doubt i could make it happen<br />
[11:08] BlueWall Slade: now that I've said that, I guess I'll find half my builds migrating into the sea.<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i can tell you though<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there is a nasty bug with rotating objects<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: when building<br />
[11:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i just had it happen 15 minutes ago<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: drives me insane<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i rotate a group of objects, and poof<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: they are gone forever<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh yes, that's a fun one<br />
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: wow<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: gone ? or just run away ?<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: gone<br />
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think it's a "Feature" though....to give you extra building practice<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i cant find em<br />
[11:09] Shez Oyen: I've seen that.. unfortunately.. but not for awhile<br />
[11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ive had it happen dozens of times<br />
[11:09] Shez Oyen: I think that might be a bad network connect?<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sounds like something years ago happend too<br />
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: Does anyone have scripts revert while editing them?<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yes<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there is also still a serious issue with XML reading when passing objects between grids<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: BlueWall when that happens<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: stop editing close the floater<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: then open script again<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bluewall, thats very old bug . i pointed at that a few times<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, scripts revert all the time<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it usually goes back to the right edits<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but that sucks nebadon<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh ya it sucks<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you have to click on the object, then click back off it, then click back on it to trigger another reload of the contents<br />
[11:10] Allen Kerensky: i wonder if that's a viewerside problem since I don't get that in mine<br />
[11:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but better than freaking out and making all the edits again<br />
[11:11] Allen Kerensky: i don't run one of the popular viewers - but I very very rarely ever have a script revert like that<br />
[11:11] Allen Kerensky: and not recently<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have it constantly with FS<br />
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: there is an email on the list that mentions the ScriptStopStrategy might be causing some of those things when it is set to co-op<br />
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm hope to look at some of the problems I'm responsible for soon<br />
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: will get a bit more time now, though still not a lot<br />
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I had to completely withdraw over the past few weeks to attend to other non-opensim things<br />
[11:12] Allen Kerensky: isn't co-op the default BlueWall?<br />
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the latency thing is just a killer.....had it kill Close Encounter 4 times last Friday with a single latent viewer entering the region<br />
[11:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: no worries Justin, have to take breaks now and then :)<br />
[11:12] BlueWall Slade: hope things are going well with you.<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but i never used co-op<br />
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: I changed it to abort to see if I have the issues again.<br />
[11:13] BlueWall Slade: it is the default RiRa<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think i overrule that always. but i need to check it again<br />
[11:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Aine, hopefully, fingers crossed, some of the work the devs for MOSES are doing can address some of that nasty login / teleport stuff<br />
[11:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Diva seems interested in their work and seems willing to review and commit their code<br />
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: ahh, the one viewer bringing the sim down<br />
[11:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: logins are just nasty<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm ok. the olkd one use coop<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: mass teleport too is just nasty<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and by mass i mean more than 5 at once<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: which is not good<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this happens with 1 viewer arriving by itself<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea was there a crowd?<br />
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: their connection is bad?<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if it's bad enough it can even bring down an emptry region<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Diva made offlineIM v2 too right ? wel ill wait on bluewall's result<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes their connection is horrible<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if someone with a bad connection comes into a crowded sim<br />
[11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you can see threads go bonkers<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it should be able to kill a region for everyone<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it happened here couple weeks ago<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you recall<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we all got dumped, but region was fine<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: never restarted<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: see huge spew of inventory stuff<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: somsone logging in<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it generater 60k resends in less than 5 minutes which means no communications going out to anyone else<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so everyone ack timeouts<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: basically running out of threads<br />
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: so it might be inventory related?<br />
[11:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: possible<br />
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: heh, we need a dog house to put them in<br />
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and why can 1 block the whole link ?<br />
[11:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i usually see a big spew of slow requests and timeouts to inventory<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it ignores throttles<br />
[11:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: when everyone gets dumped out<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is the big thing<br />
[11:17] Allen Kerensky: if it uses up all the threads or ports waiting...<br />
[11:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and the few times i have seen it the region recovers almost instantly after everyone gets dumped out<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, usually it will<br />
[11:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: everyone logs right back in and its fine<br />
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: Aine, the throttles are probably honored - it is probably queuing them up<br />
[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I hope to look at the mantis on this some time - I think there was some more data on it<br />
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: I rememebr some other things acting that way.<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it freezes everyone else's traffic so that's why I assumed it wasn't honouring them<br />
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: otherwise everyone else's traffic ought to still be able to go through normally<br />
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: it's like the buffers get filled up when something doesn't behave ideally<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ideally it should just kick/ignore/whatever the person with the bad connection but still maintain eveyrone else<br />
[11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:19] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hello Dahlia :)<br />
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi<br />
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: instead, everyone's traffic seems to go to the back of the queue and then eveyrone times out<br />
[11:19] Shez Oyen: Dahlia :)<br />
[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: hello dahlia<br />
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: Hey Dahlia<br />
[11:20] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia<br />
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I might experiment some time with ripping out the whole threading system and uniftying so the workload can be better controlled<br />
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: though that will be in a branch<br />
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: :)<br />
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, any part of the system can overload things without regard to any other part, pretty much<br />
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: I often have problems with threading when running in a debugger<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: justin - what do you thin kabout the stats patches?<br />
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I always use WriteLine debugging :)<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: hehe<br />
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know yet - this is the first time I've looked at the ml for about 3 weeks, but Iwill try and get a response soon<br />
[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: only just catching up now<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: increasing the MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU setting helped a lot fo rme<br />
[11:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: very dramatic<br />
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: what do you sset that to Dahlia?<br />
[11:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i had that problem setting up new server the other day<br />
[11:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i forgot to set that, and man<br />
[11:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: opensim runs like crap<br />
[11:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: with the stock mono threads<br />
[11:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: really horribly bad<br />
[11:23] Allen Kerensky: start with 2000<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Bluewall, 512<br />
[11:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I couldnt even teleport a single avatar<br />
[11:24] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: just an arbitrary choice tho<br />
[11:24] Allen Kerensky: and maybe play with MaxPoolThreads too 15+15 * corethreads or some formula like that<br />
[11:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: between 2 regions on that server with no avatars in either sim<br />
[11:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: teleport failed 100% of the time<br />
[11:24] Allen Kerensky: and MinThreads/maxThreads for XEngine<br />
[11:24] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think default is like 50 or something<br />
[11:24] Allen Kerensky: there's a bunch of fun tunables<br />
[11:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: was the osgrid plaza07 box<br />
[11:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hard drive failed and i had to reload the machine<br />
[11:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: has cuteulala plaza and dan bannaer and key gruins regions on it<br />
[11:25] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: opensimulator.org has been around for a few years too, maybe it could use a new drive<br />
[11:25] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: or a newer, cheaper, better box<br />
[11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea i should see maybe if i can get them to shut the machine down and clone the drive for us<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: hah, I remember when it all ran on that shared box with the other company ...<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: OnRez??<br />
[11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: electric sheep<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: ohhh yeah.<br />
[11:27] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: speaking of Nostalgia > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbxWXbHoJ2g<br />
[11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: Always like that video :)<br />
[11:28] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol ya<br />
[11:28] Allen Kerensky: is that the one with the interactive water and rain?<br />
[11:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: funny someone just pated that into the HiFidelity.io IRC channel<br />
[11:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[11:28] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Allen, I think so<br />
[11:29] OtakuMegane Desu: Would love the water physics. Also ators.<br />
[11:29] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: are there some asset issues on osgrid? I couldnt get my osgrid avatar to rez so I'm using this one<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: not since a few weeks ago Dahlia<br />
[11:30] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hmmm<br />
[11:30] Sarah Kline: HI Key ^^<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hello Key<br />
[11:30] Shez Oyen: my shape wouldn't load either.. had to use another<br />
[11:30] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: missing items in database on a region which always worked and hasn't been updated<br />
[11:30] Key Gruin: hey Sarah, Neb, Shez, and all :)<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Allen would know better than i would, but I am not aware of anything currently going on<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there was some asset loss during the last incident<br />
[11:30] Shez Oyen: Hi Key :)<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so possibly cache expired on the region<br />
[11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: do you have oar backups?<br />
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hee key<br />
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and hsez<br />
[11:31] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no it was inventory stuff<br />
[11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: oh<br />
[11:31] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I have an iar<br />
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves to Key<br />
[11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya not sure, its very possible you had stuff cached, hard to say though<br />
[11:32] Key Gruin: hey Rich, Aine...<br />
[11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: old stuff that was effected, only would have gotten broken had it been edited during the window things were on the fritz<br />
[11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I had a few things get fried myself, luckily i had like 10 different copies of stuff scattered about<br />
[11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and after the big asset incident i had recreated all my osgrid region oars and iars in my local test grid too<br />
[11:33] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev d80230a: 2015-04-27 15:46:09 -0500 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:34] Key Gruin: the only assets I had trouble with were those given to me in the last month or so, and that's not much lol<br />
[11:34] Key Gruin: or anything created in that time<br />
[11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea the window was from like may 15th'ish to april 15th'ish<br />
[11:34] Key Gruin: ya<br />
[11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: things could have gotten screwy<br />
[11:35] Shez Oyen: that's what I'm noticing too Key.. some things made in that short time between fixed and really fixed are broken<br />
[11:36] Shez Oyen: nothing mission critical<br />
[11:37] Key Gruin drops a pin<br />
[11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: any other opensimulator issues anyone wanted to discuss?<br />
[11:37] Shez Oyen: I was just looking for one<br />
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, typing e-mails and playing catch up<br />
[11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it would be good if you guys are running master git code<br />
[11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you could test out the stats patch posted on mantis from Moses<br />
[11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7540<br />
[11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: My problem we did last week. it's now just waiting.<br />
[11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: this patch doesnt do a whole lot accept remove the stats multipliers<br />
[11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you will see sim and physics fps drop from 55 to 11 basically<br />
[11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: few other things, so new instrumentation in place, that diva voiced some concerns about<br />
[11:39] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but so far I have not seen it cause to much impact, but probably could use some more testing<br />
[11:39] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: to apply the patch if you are not familiar, download the patch file to the root of the opensimulator code after a fresh clone<br />
[11:39] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: in the root of the project<br />
[11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: then type > git am patchfile.patch<br />
[11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: then compile as normal<br />
[11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you will probably get some warnings about whitespace<br />
[11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you can ignore that for the moment, they are working on that, wont cause problems testing it though<br />
[11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you might aslo get prompted about registering an email address and name<br />
[11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: just follow the instructions git spits out<br />
[11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its just some local settings for git if you are generating patches<br />
[11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but it might not let you apply a patch until you do it<br />
[11:41] BlueWall Slade: So Diva found a section that was pretty expensive for processing.<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hard to say<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: she seemed leary about it<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but when i tested i really beat on it hard<br />
[11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and didnt notice much change<br />
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: it's good that she is looking closely at it.<br />
[11:43] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: this must be some stats patch.....<br />
[11:43] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its here justin > http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7540<br />
[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: ping<br />
[11:44] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: diva was concerned about their use of StopWatch<br />
[11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: instead of Environment.TickCount<br />
[11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but appearntly tickcount has low precision<br />
[11:45] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: stopwatch is supposedly the most accurate timer in .net<br />
[11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: like 10-16ms accuracy for tickcount vs 0.8-1.0ms for stopwatch<br />
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: do you know what os they are using?<br />
[11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tickcount is bad then<br />
[11:46] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but the accuracy of even stopwatch is questionable, especially across many hardware platforms<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: probably dev'ing in Windows and testing in Linux<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but i am not sure<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ive been testing in linux of course<br />
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: I think I remember them sauing that they use Linux in VirtualBox<br />
[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: it's something that could well vary between windows and linux<br />
[11:46] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: most of my testing has been on physics so far<br />
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: if it made some noticeable imopact you would probably see it immediately<br />
[11:47] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: moses grid is primarly linux backed<br />
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, these are just numbers - the use of stopwatch is probably innocuous<br />
[11:47] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: if you use a virtual machine, pretty much any time measurement accuracy goes out the window<br />
[11:47] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so I imagine they are moving forward with the expectation of running this code in linux<br />
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: they would want to test on linux asap<br />
[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't expect stopwatch is going to be some huge perf impact thuogh tbh<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: one thing I worry about though, is in the past year i have worked very closely with the Moses grid and staff, and to be frank<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: their grid runs like shit compared to any other grid I run on<br />
[11:48] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Justin, I dont either<br />
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: adn even on mac osx if you really want to be thorough<br />
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I experience things on their grids I dont experience any where else, I did manage to get things running considerably better there<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but their simiangrid back end has issues I suspect<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: like Inventory is a disaster<br />
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: they are the only users of simian afaik<br />
[11:48] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and no doubt has a huge impact on threading<br />
[11:49] BlueWall Slade: http://opensim-dev.2196679.n2.nabble.com/Open-Simulator-Server-on-Windows-vs-Linux-td7579660.html<br />
[11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and while I appreciate the work they are doing<br />
[11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I kind of feel like they are trying to improve things that dont really need improving<br />
[11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: while completely ignoring things that doo<br />
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehehe<br />
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: they seem to be blaming physics for things im like 99% certain are xengine problems<br />
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: though part of learning a codebase is making mistakes in focus<br />
[11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so I worry about this effort<br />
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think it's a fatal problem<br />
[11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: why i am mr skeptical so far<br />
[11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I sometimes feel they aren't the only ones<br />
[11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea we are certainly guilty of that too<br />
[11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but for different reasons<br />
[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah aine, bring it on :)<br />
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: :)<br />
[11:51] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we are not making wild claims and then trying to fix things that seem to not be related<br />
[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well sorry, but I see the lingering pretty serious issues that I know are extremely complex and time-consuming to tackle but are game-killers<br />
[11:51] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I truly do hope this all works out, but I am skeptical<br />
[11:51] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ive workd closer with these guys than most people here have<br />
[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: I agree actually.<br />
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: haha, we don't get paid by the hour either :)<br />
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe it would be worth risking more radical change in a branch<br />
[11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: right, MOSES is pouring money into this thing<br />
[11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: in the hopes of making it better, and while physics should improve<br />
[11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i feel like they are chasing ghosts<br />
[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: That could be a good thing or a very bad thing in the end.<br />
[11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I hope I am wrong<br />
[11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: as long scripting is still good for discussion..<br />
[11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but i suspect they are going to pour a lot of time and money into physx<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so while I'm sure gitting a million balls to drop nicely using physics has its advantages, being able to log into a grid and be somewhat stable when in a region and being able to send something to someone else seems (to me at leasat) a little more important<br />
[11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: only to realize bulletsim is not their problem<br />
[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I would think they would realize soon that phys changes don't make huge difference<br />
[11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that its actually xengine<br />
[11:52] Shez Oyen: I would not like to be associated with war toys<br />
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I know I'm a pest about it but....<br />
[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I would say the real problem is the massive uncontrolled use of threads :)<br />
[11:53] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I feel like I am talking to a brick wall trying to explain that to them<br />
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: If I had deep pokets and staff, I would be focused on getting OpenSim running inside profileers, etc.<br />
[11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: Bullet can drop a whole lotta balls at once too. It just needs continued integration with OS and debugging.<br />
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: brick ? thick concrete mabey ?<br />
[11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the threads are indeed a problem but it's probably not practical to change course now<br />
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: Also - We will never get a real time Demoscene engine.<br />
[11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: a rewrite might be easier<br />
[11:54] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: thats ok Aine, I am sure most of the core devs would consider me quite pestulant as well :P<br />
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: OpenSim builds are more art than science.<br />
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a rewrite of the way threads are used would be a worthwhile experiment<br />
[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: a new script engine sounds a better option yes<br />
[11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: perhaps<br />
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: most of the things you want to do are accomplished with smoke and mirrors.<br />
[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: make them all subject to a single control system<br />
[11:54] BlueWall Slade: JCC++<br />
[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: It all seems to come back to threading sooner or later.<br />
[11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: a single threadpool<br />
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: you probably know that part really well after the last rouns of OSCC work.<br />
[11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but mono has an internal threadpool also<br />
[11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so opensim probably cant even get a OS thread<br />
[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, for the oscc work I could only make very tactical changes for isolated problems<br />
[11:55] BlueWall Slade: hmmm, if we could move to the 4.5 toolset :)<br />
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: we still dont use 4.5 ?<br />
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: no - 4.0<br />
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: waiting on debian<br />
[11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I hope we can perhaps have another OSCC this year, Fleep and I were kind of discussing what that would take<br />
[11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I am for it, we will probably cut out Live streaming of the event this year if we do, its just too stressful<br />
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: you know - Xamaris are makin gmoden packegs for all major distributions<br />
[11:56] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm sure there would be a lot of things we could improve given time and money, but Moses has the time and money and unfortunately we dont<br />
[11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: put more focus on having to be in world if you want to be a part of it<br />
[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: In truth, I am unlikely to be able to help much for an oscc this year<br />
[11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok well its still early no one needs to decide anything now<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: yeah, those things are a huge time commitment.<br />
[11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we were just mulling it over<br />
[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey nods<br />
[11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we definitely want to scale it back a bit<br />
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i still think Hypergrid get's very important for opensim. so let's make that run good. still soem problems left<br />
[11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: things went a lot smoother at FCVW not having to worry about live streams<br />
[11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so thats pretty much going to be axed<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: it was ustream giving issues?<br />
[11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea it was quite a disaster<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: << how many end-users?<br />
[11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: Hypergrid is certainly an important part, especially in the future. :)<br />
[11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its just super stressful to coordinate it<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: I see<br />
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: hopefully the sessions are recorded and archived.<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so we will see, and Justin I dont expect we will need to pour the kind of resources we did in previous years<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: since things have stabilized quite nicely<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and with diva having more time now<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and Moses getting more involved<br />
[11:59] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it wont be so much just on your shoulders<br />
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: yeah - don't burn out on us Justin :)<br />
[11:59] Danny Miranda: o.o<br />
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ha<br />
[12:00] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if it does happen this year, i definitely intend on leaning more on Diva<br />
[12:00] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and getting her more deeply involved<br />
[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately we need fresh people<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: I hope things are stable - time wise - so I might help a little with it.<br />
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: right now is crazy though.<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I would almost say, wait to next year. that's possible going to be intressting one<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea it wont be for a while<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: before anything happens with OSCC<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that is months away<br />
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and spend this year to improve opensim<br />
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: ++<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: before we even begin thinking about it really<br />
[12:01] Key Gruin: sounds like Moses can be a big benefit for OSCC15<br />
[12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yes, Avacon has a 3 year contract with MOSES for FCVW<br />
[12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it's too bad OSCC eats up so much developer time<br />
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: that is yet to be seen - but hopefully so.<br />
[12:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so its in their best interest to see it be successful<br />
[12:02] Key Gruin: ahh I didn't know there was a connection<br />
[12:02] Key Gruin: that's cool<br />
[12:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea OSCC was the reason MOSES had avacon take over FCVW<br />
[12:02] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: FCVW?<br />
[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: running a virtual conference is currently more work than a real one<br />
[12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and while it wasnt a huge wild success FCVW, it did go off fairly well, we kind of expected things to not be 100% the first time around<br />
[12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya Federal Consortium of Virtual Worlds<br />
[12:03] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh<br />
[12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://consortium.militarymetaverse.org/<br />
[12:03] OtakuMegane Desu: Heh, well people have been running RL conferences for ages. Virtual ones are kinda newer so... :P<br />
[12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it was basically like a mini OSCC<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: for MOSES grid<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and their partners<br />
[12:04] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it seems to come down to several deveoper months per OSCC<br />
[12:04] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: thats a very significant amount<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yes, but its all in the interest of making opensimulator better<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so its time well spent if you ask me<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it gives us focus<br />
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: really, it was about 5 dev months<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: which is important<br />
[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: or maybe 4<br />
[12:04] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so Im told, not sure i agree its worth<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but ya it would be better to have more involved<br />
[12:04] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: a lot of bugs do get fixed<br />
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: maybe wars will be fought in virtual spaces one day and spare meatspace the woe.<br />
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: :)<br />
[12:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: OSCC bugs get fixed, others dont<br />
[12:05] OtakuMegane Desu: As long as bugs are getting fixed...<br />
[12:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: bugs are bugs though<br />
[12:05] Key Gruin: OSCC bugs belong to everyyone<br />
[12:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its certainly benefited OSgrid<br />
[12:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and there is unquantifiable "benefit" to the project<br />
[12:05] BlueWall Slade: OSCC has been good for everyone<br />
[12:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea its not a perfect system, but I think there has been more good than bad come out of it<br />
[12:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: maybe its been good, but at a very high expense<br />
[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: oscc has been totally good<br />
[12:06] BlueWall Slade: does the organization break even with the donations?<br />
[12:06] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea being more involved than most, i personally dont feel the cost was too high<br />
[12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea first year we ran a bit short<br />
[12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: last year we broke even<br />
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: it lost money in 2013. I think in 2014 it was break even<br />
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[12:07] BlueWall Slade: good<br />
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: avacon covered the cost in 2013<br />
[12:07] Key Gruin: hign expense of dev time, as opposed to taking longer to improve the code?<br />
[12:07] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Key, yes<br />
[12:07] BlueWall Slade: I like tech conferences in the VW. I used to hunt them down in SL all the time.<br />
[12:08] BlueWall Slade: I lived on Dr. Dobbs Island.<br />
[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: oscc was very expensive for me both times. BUt a real load is very good at driving improvements<br />
[12:08] BlueWall Slade: :)<br />
[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: at least for oscc requirements<br />
[12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yes, i would agree that for Justin<br />
[12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: the cost may be a bit too high<br />
[12:08] BlueWall Slade: ++<br />
[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: yes<br />
[12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: for me personally while i was a bit stressed<br />
[12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i was also bummed when it ended<br />
[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: lol<br />
[12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i like the fast pace nature of it<br />
[12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and the challenge<br />
[12:08] BlueWall Slade: momentum<br />
[12:08] OtakuMegane Desu: Most things are like that when you're involved in planning<br />
[12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hopefully this year we can spread the load a bit more<br />
[12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: thats definitley one of my goals<br />
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: on the tech side, the highest part is identifying and fixing issues<br />
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: it has been extremely complex work<br />
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: try to make a system to list tasks and get volunteers to fill the need.<br />
[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: whcih is why other similar issues are not getting fixed quickly - they are equally expensive without the drivers of money or an urgent need to fix<br />
[12:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea we have done that in previous years as well<br />
[12:10] BlueWall Slade: ++<br />
[12:11] OtakuMegane Desu: If nothing else, it is a way to get load testing that you might otherwise not round up.<br />
[12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea unfortunately a project like opensimulator isnt going to come without some costs<br />
[12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: financial or otherwise<br />
[12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: just reality<br />
[12:11] BlueWall Slade: Justin, you did a lot of work with the stats reporting, that is one thing I was concerned about the stats patches - that they wouldn't break any of that.<br />
[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I would love it to be less monolithic<br />
[12:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ++<br />
[12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea thats a good goal for sure<br />
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if anything the stats patches will help make that reporting even more accurate, no?<br />
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: on a qquick glance they look ok. If they cut reported fps to 11 from 55 they may cuase some consternation<br />
[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure the value of more accurate stats - they're already pretty accurate<br />
[12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there are lots of good examples why running a gigantic grid like OSgrid isnt quite the Metaverse Utopia one would hope for<br />
[12:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm outta here, bye all :)<br />
[12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: see you Dahlia<br />
[12:13] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia<br />
[12:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Bye<br />
[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia<br />
[12:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye dahlia<br />
[12:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's where hypergrid jumps in..<br />
[12:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: anyway something to think about if and when we do start discussing and planning OSCC you will all likely be some of the first to hear about it :)<br />
[12:14] BlueWall Slade: I wish some viewer devs would want to organize under Overte and quit straddling the fence - go all out OpenSim viewer dev.<br />
[12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: are there that many viewer devs left?<br />
[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: cats in a bag as well....<br />
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: I don't know.<br />
[12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea hopefully once diva finally gets on her sabatical we are start pumping up OnLook<br />
[12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if we can drum up some more Investment and Sales at Encitra<br />
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: I have to use multiple ones because it seems none work 100%.<br />
[12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we are definitely going to be pushing some money into opensim viewer development<br />
[12:15] BlueWall Slade: yeah, I'm looking forward to checking that out.<br />
[12:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not tried onlook<br />
[12:16] Key Gruin: me niether<br />
[12:16] Key Gruin: neither<br />
[12:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I can tell you though rasing investment capital is probably one of the most stressful things you can do in life<br />
[12:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:16] BlueWall Slade: haha<br />
[12:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: more stressfull then running event ? :)<br />
[12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear it takes a huge amount of time too<br />
[12:16] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yes<br />
[12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: people dont easily give up their money even when you have something awesome<br />
[12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: smart people dont anyway<br />
[12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:17] BlueWall Slade: make a video and slap it on Kickstarter :)<br />
[12:17] Justin Clark-Casey: THat's what everyone says though :)<br />
[12:17] Justin Clark-Casey: and investors want a 10x return<br />
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup, i where puzlzing how all people are doing it so easy with kickstarter :O<br />
[12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lies Richardus<br />
[12:17] BlueWall Slade: RiRa - most people don't.<br />
[12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: people just lie<br />
[12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: thats how<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: hehe, just a small %<br />
[12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: You have to have some solid content to show for something like a Kickstarter to work out.<br />
[12:18] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: more than not though most kickstarter investments are poor ones<br />
[12:18] BlueWall Slade: yeah, probably 98% complete product.<br />
[12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Or at least a good, clear plan for things<br />
[12:18] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: most people are looking at those kind of investments as pre-order<br />
[12:19] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and nothing more<br />
[12:19] BlueWall Slade: If you are developing somethnig, if you go for funding, then you don't own it anymore.<br />
[12:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol, if the viewer is 98% donme you dont need kickstarter anymore<br />
[12:19] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: not a sound financial investment<br />
[12:19] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 waves good bye to everyone<br />
[12:19] BlueWall Slade: I really think that Philip Rosedale wanted to create a 3d Internet.<br />
[12:19] BlueWall Slade: but the investers didn't see giving up on a walled garden.<br />
[12:20] BlueWall Slade: bye Sheera<br />
[12:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I suspect he is having trouble getting investors as well<br />
[12:20] Justin Clark-Casey: highfidelity recently got an investment round<br />
[12:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh, MS gave 11 milj<br />
[12:20] BlueWall Slade: but, It would be nearly impossible to lift something like SL off the ground on your own<br />
[12:21] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea, but you pretty much nailed it BlueWall, how do you raise the capital without loosing control<br />
[12:21] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: thats the hardest part<br />
[12:21] OtakuMegane Desu: In a way that's kind of the big achilles heel to SL. It's tied up in for-profit and a walled garden.<br />
[12:21] BlueWall Slade: you don't<br />
[12:21] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: maintaining that controlling interest with other peoples money<br />
[12:21] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
[12:21] BlueWall Slade: you work for someone no matter what<br />
[12:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: im afraid virtual start to look to much like reallife. and then it's not funny anymore.. thats why opensim still gets better<br />
[12:21] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: heh, we'll end up with a HiFi client stack :S<br />
[12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have to say after all my HiFI testing<br />
[12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: im not very impressed so far<br />
[12:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats possible not bad bluewall. but..<br />
[12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: they have a long road ahead I think<br />
[12:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: im a bit lost there<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: but, we can wiggle our eyebrows when we talk<br />
[12:22] Justin Clark-Casey: hifi is tryhign to do somethign radically new I think<br />
[12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its not very good at this stage, i wouldnt even bother trying it<br />
[12:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: especially some things that already gave problems in opensim is right now a nightmare there<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: IO have not looked at it.<br />
[12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: try again in about 6 months<br />
[12:22] BlueWall Slade: *I<br />
[12:23] Justin Clark-Casey: which I thinhk is necessary actually to get somewhere new<br />
[12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: honestly it doesnt feel radiclly new<br />
[12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it feels like BlueMars v2.0 to me<br />
[12:23] Shez Oyen: I gave it 2 chances.. I prob won't go back<br />
[12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its like a cross between BlueMars and Cloudparty<br />
[12:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: At the end it's possible the same. right now it's pulling your hairs<br />
[12:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Wow, I haven't thought about Blue Mars in ages<br />
[12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it literally feels like they are just replicating those systems<br />
[12:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i dont know both nebadon<br />
[12:23] BlueWall Slade: I think we have a good platform, but the entry for new users is pretty costly on the learning curve side.<br />
[12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Cloud Party seems way more advanced in some ways<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: most people are just too lazy to put in the effort<br />
[12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: well at this point, if your not developing the code going back into their git<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: is that still around?<br />
[12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: dont even bother trying to use it<br />
[12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: no Yahoo swalled up Cloud Party<br />
[12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: never to be seen again<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: ohh<br />
[12:24] BlueWall Slade: Death Star<br />
[12:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: learning curve. SL where never so hard to learn compared with hifi. lol brb afk (dont chat to much meanwehile)<br />
[12:24] Justin Clark-Casey: it was a talent acquisition<br />
[12:24] Shez Oyen: Black Hole<br />
[12:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Or Unicron sounds more accurate.<br />
[12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya for all that cool WebGL stuff Yahoo is doing<br />
[12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lolz<br />
[12:24] Justin Clark-Casey: cloud party probably had no viable business plan and Yahoo wanted talent<br />
[12:25] Key Gruin: Cloud Party *was* cool<br />
[12:25] BlueWall Slade: haha, they got Yahoo-dooed<br />
[12:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i just hope offlineIM v2 HG get fixed before next release<br />
[12:26] BlueWall Slade: RiRa, when I get things settled here I will try to llok at it.<br />
[12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you see diva around you should probably let her know about it<br />
[12:26] BlueWall Slade: I had to build a new dev box.<br />
[12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: since it seems to be HG only issue<br />
[12:26] BlueWall Slade: there are several HG issues<br />
[12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: thats an understatement<br />
[12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol<br />
[12:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i never see diva. brb food few minutes<br />
[12:27] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: well on IRC Richardus<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: just probably needs to be run under a microscope<br />
[12:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what are the other problems ?<br />
[12:27] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: only place you will likely see her<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: friends<br />
[12:27] Justin Clark-Casey: HG is super complex because of it's distributed pper to peer nature<br />
[12:27] OtakuMegane Desu: IRC is where the cool kids hang out<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: that is really flakey<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: right<br />
[12:27] BlueWall Slade: that is the future though.<br />
[12:27] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there is another problem with HG teleporting<br />
[12:28] Justin Clark-Casey: and interactions with the viewer as well. I'm almost surprised some parts of it work at all. Getting it to work well in its current form may be near impossible<br />
[12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that really drives me nuts<br />
[12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: setup 2 identical oars on different grids, with lots of mesh objects<br />
[12:28] BlueWall Slade: what TP issues?<br />
[12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: clear cache and log into one<br />
[12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: then HG teleport to other identical region<br />
[12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and watch your viewer cache get clobbered<br />
[12:28] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: richardus, i tested offline Im v2 from outside HG, and in all cases the IMs get delivered when i log in<br />
[12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: the land of a millionn yellow pyramids<br />
[12:28] BlueWall Slade: ohhh<br />
[12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: super annoying<br />
[12:28] BlueWall Slade: I rememebr OSCC and that issue<br />
[12:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's just being helpful by telling you to build with prims instead<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: was only under Singularity though.<br />
[12:29] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ah could be<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: Firestorm was ok<br />
[12:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect that is a viewer side thing that opensim mcan't fix<br />
[12:29] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i mostly only use Singularity and Replex<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: but, firestorm voice didn't work.<br />
[12:29] BlueWall Slade: right now I have no voice on any viewer.<br />
[12:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I just cant be efficient builder in Firesorm<br />
[12:30] OtakuMegane Desu: Firestorm seems a mess for Opensim evrery time I try it any more.<br />
[12:30] BlueWall Slade: It used to work really good for me in most cases.<br />
[12:30] BlueWall Slade: but, seems that they have focused on SL web thing.<br />
[12:30] BlueWall Slade: :/<br />
[12:30] BlueWall Slade: no 64 bit viewer<br />
[12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: maybe Kokua<br />
[12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: NickyP is usually quite helpful<br />
[12:31] BlueWall Slade: something was up with that one too.<br />
[12:31] BlueWall Slade: yes ++<br />
[12:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: back<br />
[12:31] BlueWall Slade: when I get this dev box setup, I may jump to OpenSuSE 13.2 on my workstation<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: that might fix some things<br />
[12:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: friends, yes thats good one to and buggy<br />
[12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, time for me to get something to eat<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: see ya justin<br />
[12:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok yea I need to go ride my bike<br />
[12:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: excersize time<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: good to see you today, take care.<br />
[12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: good to talk with you folks again. Hope to be around a bit more now though still little time avialable<br />
[12:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye guys :)<br />
[12:32] BlueWall Slade: ++ I need to walk around a bit<br />
[12:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: kk ya welcome back Justin! good to see you<br />
[12:33] BlueWall Slade: Aine - you want to show me that ghost you have?<br />
[12:33] Justin Clark-Casey waves<br />
[12:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes please<br />
[12:33] BlueWall Slade: 0/<br />
[12:33] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigernhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-04-21Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-212015-10-25T22:49:41Z<p>Fritigern: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre><br />
[10:55] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yep, im getting it again, starting to get annoying<br />
[10:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br />
[10:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: throw it on the pile of bugs behind me :O<br />
[10:55] Basil Sosides: relog<br />
[10:55] Basil Sosides: wait<br />
[10:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: even more so in that you have to close each on e individually at some point....they persist through a relog<br />
[10:56] Jak Daniels is Online<br />
[10:56] Shez Oyen: I am pulling up profiles ok.<br />
[10:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's fun when the counter for it hits "99+"....then you get to spend 5-10 minutes clearing them later<br />
[10:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, you can view profiles just fine<br />
[10:57] Shez Oyen: but I didn't HG in.. I logged on<br />
[10:57] BlueWall Slade: the php "openprofiles" and the core profiles are not compatible.<br />
[10:57] BlueWall Slade: so you are HG and have core profiles on your grid.<br />
[10:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but every single time an agent enters the region (including rez of an NPC) there's a floater message that says "unable to fetch profile data at this time"<br />
[10:58] BlueWall Slade: here runs openprofiles.<br />
[10:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br />
[10:58] BlueWall Slade: I'm guessing that would be in the openprofiles.<br />
[10:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no idea<br />
[10:58] BlueWall Slade: afaik, those have not been updated even for the module loding changesd.<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: all I know is any time I come to OSG I get spammed with vast numbers of those messageszx<br />
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: run openprofiles on your grid.<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no<br />
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: lol<br />
[10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi bluerwall<br />
[10:59] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: os grid should run core profiles, not some old out of date php lol<br />
[10:59] BlueWall Slade: RiRa, I fund where the non-standard avatars start bouncing<br />
[10:59] Shez Oyen: I turned those off.. I was getting them too made it hard to pay attention<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: either fix core profiles or fix openprofiles<br />
[10:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or fix both<br />
[11:00] BlueWall Slade: Alica, they need jsut a bit more work - secure them fro Hg travel<br />
[11:00] BlueWall Slade: Well, openprofiles should follow cored developments.<br />
[11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes i have read that bluewall, nice. i made mantis for offlineIM in the hope others see something wrong. i get the feeling it's not implemented. it sofar i know never worked.<br />
[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks is Online<br />
[11:00] BlueWall Slade: It was discussed by some core devs to expire them at one point.<br />
[11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: also not have local offlineIM string top compare http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7531<br />
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: but, I need to push some time aside to polish them.<br />
[11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you dont want to run openprofiles. just because it cannot work on remote webserver without risking your database<br />
[11:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: richardus, i use v2 im and any messages from outside get stored and delivered ok, it must be implemented<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew<br />
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Richardus.<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: I will test the messages, but I think they are working ok for me.<br />
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, everyone<br />
[11:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi andrew<br />
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Then i want to know whats wrong alicia. buecause i dotn see the error. and i made the whoel ini now new style<br />
[11:02] Shez Oyen: Hi Andrew :)<br />
[11:02] BlueWall Slade: I will look at your mantis and see if there is something I need to do to trigger it.<br />
[11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I only seem to get stored messages if the person leaving the message is in our grid at the time they send it<br />
[11:03] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Hi everyone<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, then it's not working aine<br />
[11:03] BlueWall Slade: Hi<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi bob<br />
[11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't done extensive testing on it though<br />
[11:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi bob<br />
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i can send it from other grid. it get stored. but never send to avatar<br />
[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Talking about sending IM's between grids?<br />
[11:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yep<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think andrew did lots with the offline php code. , what im misisng is compareable string for normal offline IM<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes andrew<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7531<br />
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Have you checked how the avatar ID gets saved in the offline IM table?<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: offlineIM<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: Ohh, Ok. ATM My only running grid is non-HG<br />
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you can see the string in the mantis andrew<br />
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: unfortunately it's the HG stuff that's borked<br />
[11:04] BlueWall Slade: I should have my Hg one up in a couple of days again. then I can test<br />
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, what is the mantis #?<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7531<br />
[11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia<br />
[11:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anything in-gird seems to be working fine (on our grid anyway)<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dahlia<br />
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ty<br />
[11:05] Shez Oyen: Hi Dahlia :)<br />
[11:05] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia<br />
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine correct, in grid works. but HG is weird<br />
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: add it to the list of HG-related bugs I logged 25 months ago that are still open<br />
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: where to add ?<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't test any grid code atm as my main computer is still down.<br />
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: does it ever get alive again andrew. how can you work this way :O<br />
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6603 or http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6769 I guess<br />
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus,by forcing myself to use a Windows laptop. :P<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: though the IM issue isn't restricted to just friends<br />
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats not bad. :P<br />
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Its not Linux<br />
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: AFAICT from that mantis report the UUID is ok. I was thinking it would have shown as UUID@gridname and that was failing as you don't need the @gridname part for local delivery<br />
[11:09] BlueWall Slade: I added a "Hypergrid" tag to the mantis.<br />
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That did bluewall told me too andrew. but now i have setup the grid again and correct this is the result. i dont see anything wrong myself.<br />
[11:09] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: thats a good idea, as there are alot of hg bugs right now<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok<br />
[11:10] Robert Adams is Online<br />
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what I really would like to know is if any attention is likely to be paid to the issue of a single latent viewer being able to kill a region....I've had that happen 4 or 5 times in the last week alone<br />
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: sometimes the Hg messages say the other user is offline when they are not.<br />
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: :)<br />
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be worth knowing if it attempts to deliver the message or not.<br />
[11:10] BlueWall Slade: So, yeah, there is some work to be done ther.<br />
[11:10] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi Robert<br />
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: What i need and wish, more debug messages optional for messaging. not found it<br />
[11:11] Shez Oyen: There you are Robert.. I was getting ready to send a search party<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi robert<br />
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a full set of data was sent to Justin 4+ weeks ago by Seth using his request for logging<br />
[11:11] BlueWall Slade: Hello Robert.<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: If you send an IM and it is getting saved to the DB, is the message still in the DB table after the recipient has logged in and received any other offline IMs?<br />
[11:11] Robert Adams: hello all<br />
[11:11] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002 is Online<br />
[11:11] Shez Oyen: :)<br />
[11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi robert<br />
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, Robert<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew. i can send messages. the all get stored in the database. and never leave<br />
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the normal offlineIM's i cannot find<br />
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. If the offline IM's never get removed from the DB table the offline IM code isn't finding a match against the local avatar UUID<br />
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Thats what i think. but thats somewhere in teh opensim V2 coee<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, not think. biut it's doing soemthing wrong<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: This is with built-in offline IM code?<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: offlineIM V2<br />
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I've not used or tested the built-in stuff.<br />
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: with the php code i used in the past i think it works fine. but not want to run a webserver<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: could the remote sim be sending some small change in the format of what is registered in the database to cause it to fail?<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you get locally sent and received IM's?<br />
[11:14] BlueWall Slade: << the remote id of the friend.<br />
[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if somebody add more debug code options we can check<br />
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: s/IM's/offline IM's/<br />
[11:15] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:15] Robert Adams would like it if the IM code needs to be broken out cleanly into a module and then replaced with a better backend implementation<br />
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: howto see that part of the mnessage ? i tried it from metro and from OS it fails both<br />
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any IM sent from the local grid is correctly delivered<br />
[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: BlueWall, it would be hoped the console might report an error in that case.<br />
[11:15] Robert Adams: but that's just wishing<br />
[11:15] BlueWall Slade: yes ++<br />
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: seperate module would not be bad<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would assume that the target of the IM isn't being stored correctly when the IM is put into the DB<br />
[11:16] BlueWall Slade: Hey Robert, could you take a peek at http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7535 ?<br />
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when the avi logs in, there's no match found for it when that table is searched for any undelivered messages<br />
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: If offline IM's work when sent locally it is possible that the code is checking the sending avatar exists in the grid and that check fails so the message never gets sent to the recipient? (I'm just guessing on that)<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: could be<br />
[11:17] BlueWall Slade: I am just thnking - but could the simulator names have any bearing on it?<br />
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Would be easy enough to check by adding a debug message that goes to console when that situation is seen<br />
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: of maybe it's being stored using name instead of UUID of the intended recipient in which case the HG target name is different than the local target nbame<br />
[11:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: richardus, what db do u use, mysql?<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, good one thinked about it. but why would it do that ?<br />
[11:18] BlueWall Slade: I have been really busy and my grid is in the process of being moved to another server.<br />
[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mysql<br />
[11:19] BlueWall Slade: When I get it running, I will try to set some time aside to at least look at it and add some debugging.<br />
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: That info in the mantis seems to indicate the the from name doesn't include the @gridname so you wouldn't know where the message originated.<br />
[11:19] Robert Adams: I think I'm going to 'fix' the large varregion-edit-lag problem by not sending the whole region's parcel data... see if that helps<br />
[11:20] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: just send the surrounding area?<br />
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, Didn't Mel indicate it might break something re: showing parcel ownership via the coloured areas?<br />
[11:20] BlueWall Slade: Could a viewer make changes to alleviate that issue?<br />
[11:20] Robert Adams: it currently sends the whole regions's info..... If I only send the 256 area around that should be sufficient for the view update<br />
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
[11:21] BlueWall Slade: if you have lots of parcels it sends more data?<br />
[11:21] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[11:21] Robert Adams: BLuewall: no... it sends a byte array with one byte for each 4mx4m area<br />
[11:22] BlueWall Slade: ohhh, ok.<br />
[11:22] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I can find a non-HG offline IM for comparison after the meeting is over.<br />
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ok<br />
[11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: or just send it for the area that maps for the traditional 256x256 area the avatar would be in if it were not a varregion?<br />
[11:23] Jak Daniels: it has to send one byte for effectively 1 bit of data per 4x4?<br />
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: I like the var regions<br />
[11:23] Basil Sosides: i run a 5 to 5 VAR on a Homeserver(1.2 Mbit up), runs good, no prolems<br />
[11:23] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[11:23] BlueWall Slade: I run several 768x768 ones and they are good.<br />
[11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i run 4 3x3 regions. sofar it's fine<br />
[11:24] Shez Oyen: mine are 3x3 but there are 4 of those together.. everything is aces<br />
[11:24] Robert Adams: the parcel info byte includes 'for sale', 'can enter', ...<br />
[11:24] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok 768x768 x 4<br />
[11:24] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I run 2x2 and 3x3 and I couldnt repliacate the problem<br />
[11:24] Jak Daniels: ah ok, tnx Robert<br />
[11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but less data is always good<br />
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: so, I think we have recommended 3x3 or 4x4 as the preferred size.<br />
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: so these havind issues are 10x10 or such?<br />
[11:25] Robert Adams: the only problem I see is ,if you cam way out, you won't see parcel boundries in the distance, but I don't think that's a big problem<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: next one is i think 4x4 but thast because i need 128 meters water around it<br />
[11:25] BlueWall Slade: ++<br />
[11:25] Basil Sosides: true Robert !<br />
[11:25] Robert Adams: varregions are limited to 8kx8k<br />
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: or more mabey i need 5x5 but not more<br />
[11:26] Jak Daniels: will the viewer cache those 256 areas it has been sent parcel data for?<br />
[11:26] BlueWall Slade: The viewer doesn't get neighbor regions parcel info in normal regions?<br />
[11:26] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[11:27] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:27] Robert Adams: the parcel data is cached by the vieweer.... but there is no update management so OS just sends the whole region info<br />
[11:27] Basil Sosides: 5 to 5 is at the Border to bad, cause max Drawdistance is 1024m<br />
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: 8kx8k? That would be a 32x32 var. Way larger than is practical unless the regions are empty<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol 1024DD is killing ever framerate<br />
[11:27] Jak Daniels: ok, because I do sometime pan out to see the parcels in a varregion :)<br />
[11:27] Robert Adams: for a 256x256 region, the parcel info is 4K bytes.... for a 4kx4k region, the parcel info is > 1MB<br />
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yiks<br />
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: Freaky Tech sent some patches that caches data in the sim and I think only sends changed parts.<br />
[11:28] mattie mcbride is Offline<br />
[11:28] BlueWall Slade: Did you see that one?<br />
[11:28] Robert Adams: and sending that everytime you right click or make any prim edit update slows things down :)<br />
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what happend with neb & justn ?<br />
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Does it need to send that every time ? or can there be add some filter ?<br />
[11:29] Robert Adams: Ithink that cache patch was added already.... I'll check again, though<br />
[11:29] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: justin has been busy on something else for the last several weeks. No idea about neb<br />
[11:29] BlueWall Slade: I think the FT code dealt with just terrain patches.<br />
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok.<br />
[11:29] OtakuMegane Desu: Even with the larger data size in var regions bandwidth isn't really the issue with this aside from very large vars. Something in the process of generating the info to send, or the send process itself, is being laggy. I dunno how much is involved but I wouldn't think it a particularily intense function.<br />
[11:31] mattie mcbride is Online<br />
[11:31] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: is anyone else having problems with hg visitors showing as unknown user?<br />
[11:32] Shez Oyen: Not here<br />
[11:32] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[11:32] Shez Oyen: but I haven<br />
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm seldom in an HG enabled grid.<br />
[11:32] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: nope<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not seen it<br />
[11:32] Jak Daniels: not today, but I have seen it<br />
[11:32] BlueWall Slade: I had some npc showing up as that when a var region was within distance of the region<br />
[11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: well the name i keep getting is Unknown UserUMMAU42<br />
[11:32] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: clearing cache often fixes the unknown user thing<br />
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think cache clear is only solution for that<br />
[11:32] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: which was added recently to code<br />
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: I had a 3x3 region with a 256m void<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'd try cache clear as first step<br />
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: and I would see unknown on the npc.<br />
[11:33] BlueWall Slade: when I moved the var region away it cleared up.<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: It is also possible(?) you could need to clear instance cache<br />
[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: or is it Robust. Not sure where that user info gets stored grid side.<br />
[11:34] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i seen alot of people on google+ talking about the same thing, they just dont bother to post to mantis<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: the region caches user info<br />
[11:34] BlueWall Slade: there are a coupl of commands to clear it<br />
[11:34] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: The topic has come up in the past. I thought it was fixed but perhaps not for HG users??<br />
[11:34] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: do u know where it keeps the cache?<br />
[11:34] Robert Adams: maybe the region should be more aggressive about clearing its user info cache<br />
[11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7527<br />
[11:35] Robert Adams: there is a bunch of logic that tries to keep from DDOSing other regions with user presence requests<br />
[11:35] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: does the region even cacne user info?<br />
[11:35] Robert Adams: that code is complex and does make mistakes<br />
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: does it ever clear automatic ?<br />
[11:36] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Im not sure it caches it<br />
[11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: it seems strange to me that this has started to happen about the same time as the Unknown UserUMMAU42 name was added to the code<br />
[11:36] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I know viewers have problems with unknown users even in SL<br />
[11:37] Robert Adams: the 'Unknown User' problem has been around for a while and many changes have been made<br />
[11:37] BlueWall Slade: hmmm, I can't find the command that clears it now.<br />
[11:37] Robert Adams: the funny "U42" addition was to tell the difference between new bugs/instances and stuff that was left over in old caches<br />
[11:37] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: as far as I know most user info is in ScenePresence<br />
[11:37] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: that name is set in the UserManagementModule.cs<br />
[11:38] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:38] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: before requesting user account data from the user service<br />
[11:39] Robert Adams: the "Unknown User" name should never be seen... it is used when the real name isn't available.... which should never happen<br />
[11:39] Robert Adams: but it does.... why, hasn't been found<br />
[11:40] Robert Adams: Justin fixed a bunch of race conditions related to HG<br />
[11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I thought I heard it was related to display names<br />
[11:40] Robert Adams: but there must be something still left<br />
[11:40] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i will add some debug code and see if i can find more info, it only happens with hg users tho<br />
[11:40] BlueWall Slade: it seems to have surfaced again when the partial display names support was added?<br />
[11:40] MP4 Player v1.0 (archive.org): You are not the owner of this screen!!<br />
[11:41] MP4 Player v1.0 (archive.org): You are not the owner of this screen!!<br />
[11:41] Robert Adams: there was also some fiddling with display names (setting and not setting between regions of different versions and different user options)... but I think that is different<br />
[11:41] Robert Adams: anything is possible, BlueWall<br />
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: the show names command might list them?<br />
[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Alicia it also happens with NPCs<br />
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: on the console the names show ok, just the viewer<br />
[11:42] BlueWall Slade: ok<br />
[11:43] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my default home location is a region with about 6 NPCs in it...about 1 in 5 logins they'll all be unknown<br />
[11:43] Robert Adams: that speaks of a race condition, Alicia<br />
[11:43] BlueWall Slade: Haha, I cannot find the commands I added to clear that cache :s<br />
[11:43] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we have some npcs in the main sim but they always show fine<br />
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it's an all-or-nothing thing....either they're all named or all unknown<br />
[11:44] paulie Flomar is Online<br />
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: also happens when I HG to Close Encounter every Friday....about a 50:50 chance that the 2 NPC bartenders there will show as unknown<br />
[11:44] Grande broome is Online<br />
[11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: so the cache is saved? not just reset if the sim is restarted?<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: cache depends on the settings of flotsamcache.ini<br />
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i thought that was only asset cache?<br />
[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you're doing file caching with it set never to expire, it never expires<br />
[11:45] ladyjo martin is Online<br />
[11:45] Robert Adams: it probably means the name is sent to the viewer early in the avatar setup.... the real name gets set in the simulator but the viewer has the (bad) name and never asks again<br />
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: reset user cache<br />
[11:46] BlueWall Slade: that should clear it.<br />
[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, people are generally not all that excited about having to constantly clear their caches<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: had they rather restart their regions?<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: reset user cache<br />
[11:47] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev d96d31b: 2015-04-12 19:32:06 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br />
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they're rather the bug didn't exist ;)<br />
[11:47] BlueWall Slade: I think it is collecting names from objects, etc. too<br />
[11:47] Robert Adams: not sure what cache you're talking about.... there are lots of caches.... clearning content cache won't update the user name (other than requiring you to relogin)<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: user management module<br />
[11:48] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: flotsam is only assets right?<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: yes<br />
[11:48] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: reset user cache isnt working<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: I don't see it in the console help<br />
[11:48] BlueWall Slade: maybe it was reverted somewhere along the way.<br />
[11:49] Robert Adams: the viewer must build a UUID->name table separate from user data and asset data... makes it quick to display names in object properties, etc<br />
[11:49] Robert Adams: I don't know how that table is filled<br />
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ha, now i have the unable to fetch profile data<br />
[11:50] BlueWall Slade: OpenSim/Region/CoreModules/Framework/UserManagement/UserManagementModule.cs<br />
[11:51] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i had assumed the user cache was only in memory and would be wiped when the server restarts<br />
[11:51] BlueWall Slade: It does, but there are objects, etc. with user names.<br />
[11:51] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: appears to be a dictionary in the user management module<br />
[11:52] BlueWall Slade: I think that all the names in the objects, etc. go there on startup.<br />
[11:52] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: line 477 is where that name is set, and that was only added last month by a patch from FT<br />
[11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: which is when the problem started, approximatly... i think lol<br />
[11:53] Robert Adams: you said the console command shows the correct name.... if true, the table in OS is filled correctly.... but the same table in the viewer is not getting filled correctly<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or the viewer looks for it too early<br />
[11:53] BlueWall Slade: maybe an object has the bad name?<br />
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then when it *does* get the data it never updates it<br />
[11:53] Robert Adams: or gets sent it too early<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which will also happen with animations and attachments<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and sometimes textuews<br />
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: but how could that make it show every hg user as unknown<br />
[11:54] Grande broome is Offline<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the viewer definitely gets the data for those because on relog it loads instantly<br />
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: that would just cause issues for one i think<br />
[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so it's being pulled from the viewer cache<br />
[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but for whatever reason on that initial send the viewer doesn't update the scene to incorporate that new data<br />
[11:55] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i cleared all the viewer caches, manual delete, as thats the only way to clear them fully<br />
[11:55] Robert Adams: likely the handshake with the viewer (to display the new avatar) is happening in parallel with the handshake that is creating the avatar<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the problem with that, Alicia, is it lead s to constant repeat of the same problem<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since the data then has to be resent in its entirety again<br />
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = more likely not to arrive in time to make it into the scene<br />
[11:56] Robert Adams: and the name of the avatar is sent to the viewer before the creation handshake is complete<br />
[11:56] BlueWall Slade: If the problem is a bad name, then find and remove the object with the bad name - if that is what the root cause is?<br />
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, after clearing cache it has time to reload, before another hg user comes maybe hours later and is again unknown<br />
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: one bad name could cause all hg users to be unknown?<br />
[11:57] Robert Adams: I have to run.... take care all<br />
[11:57] BlueWall Slade: Thanks Robert.<br />
[11:57] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Bye Robert<br />
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye robert<br />
[11:58] Robert Adams is Offline<br />
[11:58] Sarah Kline: Hi Kote2<br />
[11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Robert<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: Nope - but when the sim is restarted, only names of persisted objects should be there.<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: It is just a memory cache.<br />
[11:58] BlueWall Slade: chat lag.<br />
[11:58] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: have to go, bye all :)<br />
[11:58] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye dahlia<br />
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: Bye Dahlia<br />
[11:59] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Bye Dahlia<br />
[11:59] Shez Oyen: I guess Ill go update everything BB y'all<br />
[11:59] BlueWall Slade: bye Shez<br />
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye dahlia<br />
[11:59] Sarah Kline: aww i just got here<br />
[11:59] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i will try a few other things, maybe add more debug printout and see<br />
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, yes. It is about that time of the day<br />
[11:59] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye shez<br />
[12:00] paulie Flomar is Offline<br />
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I need to scoot, too....have a good week everyone<br />
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: I gues those commands got wiped out :s<br />
[12:00] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye aine<br />
[12:00] BlueWall Slade: they weren't really for htat purpose, but it would allow the user management cache to be cleared.<br />
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: bye Aine<br />
[12:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: if the cache is volatile, then clear cache wouldnt help as it persists across restarts<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi is Online<br />
[12:01] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br />
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: hey guys sorry I missed meeting today<br />
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, nebadon<br />
[12:01] BlueWall Slade: it doesn't persist - not the visitors.<br />
[12:01] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye..<br />
[12:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hey nebadon<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: what I miss :)<br />
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: Hey Nebadon<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: can anyone post up the chat log to the wiki?<br />
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: hmm, IM v2<br />
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb. wrong timezone ?<br />
[12:02] BlueWall Slade: I will<br />
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: no I was out I just got home<br />
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[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Fritigern