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		<id>http://opensimulator.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&amp;feedformat=atom&amp;user=Tleiades</id>
		<title>OpenSimulator - User contributions [en]</title>
		<link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://opensimulator.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&amp;feedformat=atom&amp;user=Tleiades"/>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tleiades"/>
		<updated>2026-05-15T10:49:08Z</updated>
		<subtitle>User contributions</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-11-06T14:39:52Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: Removed my agenda items&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 11:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 14:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 19:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 02:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Previous Agenda Items ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Logs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-30]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration</id>
		<title>Configuration</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration"/>
				<updated>2007-10-31T05:56:14Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Grid mode */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;It is recommended that you first get OpenSim running in standalone mode, before you attempt to connect it to a grid, either your own grid or a public grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator actually consists of four services, known as UGAS which stand for User, Grid, Asset &amp;amp; Simulator. They are started in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running in its default standalone mode has all the services self-contained, but they are very modest. This means any first/last/password works. It also means inventory is all local with no region or grid-wide connections.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as a local grid runs all four services on the same computer. Multiple sims can be run, across-region crossing including teleporting and a set of inventory items that are within this local grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as part of a public grid runs only OpenSim.exe and the other three services are running on a server common to many regions. This also means that understanding the needed UUID, X,Y location, server handshake passwords, master avatar first/last/password and a couple of other settings. These are not difficult, but do require a little care in setting up.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Command Line arguments passed to OpenSim.exe=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim.exe responds to various command line arguments. These include &amp;quot;-inifile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-configfile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-gridmode&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-physics&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-config&amp;quot; &amp;amp; &amp;quot;-noverbose&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When starting OpenSim in either Windows or Linux, one can add &amp;quot;-physics=OpenDynamicsEngine&amp;quot; to run the OpenDynamicsEngine instead of basicphysics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most users in standalone mode will not add any command line arguments. For local grid or public grid, the &amp;quot;-gridmode=true&amp;quot; is usually the only argument used. The rest are for more advanced configuration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=OpenSim configuration file=&lt;br /&gt;
The simulator configuration is managed using a file called [[OpenSim.ini]]. This file is used regardless of whether the sim is running in standalone or grid mode. Detailed information on the options available for setttings in this file can be found [[OpenSim.ini|here]].&lt;br /&gt;
=Standalone mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you start OpenSim in standalone mode, it will ask you several question at the console. The first set of prompts that start with &amp;quot;NETWORK SERVERS INFO&amp;quot;, you can just hit return to accept the defaults if you will be running in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The prompts that start with &amp;quot;DEFAULT REGION CONFIG&amp;quot; are where you need to start paying attention. Some are self-explanatory. Here are explanations for the others:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Location. OpenSim regions can be placed anywhere on a 65536 by 65536 grid. In standalone mode, it is safe to leave these X and Y locations at their defaults.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Filename for local storage. Safe to leave at default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP address; This should always be 0.0.0.0&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP port for incoming UDP client connection. You can make this any port you want, but it is safe to leave at the default 9000.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* External host name. If you will only be attaching to your sim from a SecondLife client on the same machine, you can leave this at the default 127.0.0.1. If you will be wanting to connect to it from a client on another machine, this should be the IP address or hostname of the machine you are running this sim on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To connect to your new sim, start up secondlife with the following command line switches: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:9000/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This assumes you are running the secondlife client on the same box. If you are running it on a separate box, substitute the IP address of your sim machine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To create a user:&lt;br /&gt;
type &amp;quot;create user &amp;lt;first&amp;gt; &amp;lt;last&amp;gt; &amp;lt;password&amp;gt; &amp;lt;x_loc&amp;gt; &amp;lt;y_loc&amp;gt;&amp;quot; in the server console&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Grid mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You want to run your own grid. Great! Assuming that you already got your sim running in standalone mode, here is what you need to do:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Current builds of OpenSim grid mode are using mysql to store the grid information. You must have this installed and configured if you want to run your own grid. See [[mysql-config]] for more information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The servers should be started in a certain order. UGAS: UserServer, GridServer, AssetServer, Sim. These are all found in the bin directory. In windows, you can just double-click on the executables to start them. In linux, you will probably have to start them with mono. The executable names are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Start the UserServer. If you will be running the GridServer on the same box, hit enter to accept the defaults, until it gives you the prompt &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenUser#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the main prompt for the user server. If you will be running the GridServer on another box, change the Default Grid Server URI as appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Start the GridServer. Again, you can hit return at all the prompts if you are running them all on the same machine. If not, change the URIs for the Asset Server and User server to point to where you are running them. You will finally get to the console prompt for the GridServer which looks like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenGrid#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Start the AssetServer. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenAsset#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. Start the InventoryServer. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 INVENTORY#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. If you are running all of these servers on the same box, which would be the normal configuration. You should be ready to start up your sim. Since the OpenSim.exe starts up by default in standalone mode, you will need to give it a command line switch to tell it to use gridmode instead:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mono OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With any luck, everything will come up without too many errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. Go to the UserServer console, and type 'create user' to create a new avatar. It will prompt you for the name and password, and the X and Y of the sim that should be his home location. Use 1000 and 1000, or wherever you told your sim to live when you brought it up in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the console of any of these servers, you should be able to type 'help' to get a list of commands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should now be able to connect to your new grid with your secondlife client. You need to tell your client to point at the UserServer rather than directly at the sim, though:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 secondlife -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:8002/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8002 is the default port for the UserServer, and that IP address should be changed to the server you are running the UserServer on, if they are not all on the same box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Happy OpenSimming!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Note: if you are using Windows Vista, remeber to start servers as Admin. If not it will prompt you an error in console like &amp;quot;Error - Access denied&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
''&lt;br /&gt;
=== Technical Addendum ===&lt;br /&gt;
For running multiple regions on the same box, you simply make multiple copies of the 'default.xml' file inside the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;bin/Regions/&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; directory.  You can do this using the script &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;make.php&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; in &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;share/regions&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;, or you can generate the files by hand.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you want to create the files by hand, first copy the default.xml file in the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;bin/Regions&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; directory, and name them anything you want (I name mine x.y.xml, where x znd y are the grid coords.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Open each xml file and edit the uuid (each must be unique, a generator can be found at  [http://www.famkruithof.net/uuid/uuidgen uuidgen webpage]), region name, x &amp;amp; y positions, datastore (if you are using the prim thing) and internal ip port. EACH OF THESE MUST BE UNIQUE!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once you have 2 or more xml files in the regions folder, running a ''single copy'' of &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;OpenSim.exe&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; will boot all of your sims! If you come across any errors, there is most likely an error in the xml files.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Attaching your sim to someone else's grid=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To set up the simulation server (i.e., &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;OpenSim.exe&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;) to connect to an external grid, you should edit the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;OpenSim.ini&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; file in the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;bin&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; directory.  In that file, there is a &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;[Network]&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; section with URLs for the grid, user, and asset servers, as well as send and receive keys (for a basic level of security).  The addresses and send/receive keys will vary depending on the grid you are connecting to, and the grid operator should tell you what values to use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other file you may have to change is in your &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;bin/Regions&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; directory. This is where your individual region config files are. If you only have one region, it will by default be called &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;default.xml&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This can be edited with any text editor. The grid owner may tell you what X and Y location you can place your sim at (you can't have multiple sims at the smae location on the grid). If so, the fields you will need to change in this file are &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;sim_location_x&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; and &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;sim_location_y&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;.  And the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;external_host_name&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; should be set to the hostname or IP address of your simulation server (i.e., the machine that is running &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;OpenSim.exe&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A list of public grids that you can attach your sim to is at [[OpenSim: Grids]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Tips=&lt;br /&gt;
In Windows, to automate startup, you can create a file called StartGrid.BAT:&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PS! Check that you have sleep command installed, I'm unsure if all Windows versions have that.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This knowledgebase article describes how to add a batch file to startup of Windows (before logon).&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/ http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note that you have to start all applications and answer the configuration questions once before adding it to any startup.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
If you start the server before logon then there will be no window to close if you want to shut down the server, so you can create a &amp;quot;StopGrid.BAT&amp;quot; with:&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /F /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''(Do they have to be shut down in any particular order?)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you use Linux (did it quick and dirty)&lt;br /&gt;
install screen (apt-get install screen) and create a script called &amp;quot;runSim&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
 #! /bin/sh&lt;br /&gt;
 cd /opensim/bin&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m  mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This allow me to ssh to my Sever start the Grid and log out. To stop the Grid I just use &amp;quot;killall mono&amp;quot;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-30</id>
		<title>Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-30</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-30"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T20:03:31Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: New page: [10:07]  Tleiades: Hi&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt; [10:07]  Teravus Ousley2: Hello :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt; [10:08]  Tleiades: are we downstairs today?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt; [10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: no physics today&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt; [10:08]  Tleiades: I think...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[10:07]  Tleiades: Hi&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:07]  Teravus Ousley2: Hello :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:08]  Tleiades: are we downstairs today?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: no physics today&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:08]  Tleiades: I think leaving out physics for today is safer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:09]  Charles Krinkeb: I leave physics off and usually turn it on the night before the meeting. If it crashes twice in the 12 hours before, I leave it off. Otherwise I leave it on.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:09]  Charles Krinkeb: This region is unique on OSGrid as it has the highest traffic of all regions.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: im very happy to see the textres&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: textures&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Tleiades: advertising on the fronpage that people should use this for home, probably helps :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Teravus Ousley2: :D&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Charles Krinkeb: it is also unique in that it is running on the osgrid server along with the UGA, which has a 250mbps network interface.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: al&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: although my hippo is gone&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:10]  Stefan Andersson: Oh yeah, I guess you all know the asset fuckups were all mine...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Stefan Andersson: But Michael saved the day, quite literally since he spent most of a day hunting down my bug. :D&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Charles Krinkeb: nebadon: The hippo should be back tomorrow. I had problems getting r2208 r unning and rolled back a week or so.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Stefan Andersson: But Michael saved the day, quite literally since he spent most of a day hunting down my bug. :D&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: yea beyond 2205&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: is fubar&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: pretty much for grid servers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: not a good idea to go beyond 2204&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:11]  Stefan Andersson: It's not fubar, just needs the grid be globally updated&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: well yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Charles Krinkeb: no, lbsa, everythng that goes right is yours, mw, sdague and others. Everything that goes wrong is mine, nebadon, sakai.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: but for this grid&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Stefan Andersson: which is a bad thing, and really smells of LL rollouts&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: best to stay at 2204&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: for now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: but stefan&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: on NEBADON2025 grid&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: hehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: i updated everything to 2205&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: and it didnt work there either&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: so&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  Stefan Andersson: Well.. I guess we need to think long and hard on stuff like using the built-in serialization for communication.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:12]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: we've been on 2205 since yesterday&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:13]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: seems fine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:13]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: (aussie yesterday)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt see see from server to server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: once i did it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll try it again later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:13]  Tleiades: question is, how do we handle grid wide assets, now that we have those in the code?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:13]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: u mentioned u had a pooling prblem&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:14]  Teravus Ousley2: that does seem to be the 'hot topic' for this week :D&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:14]  Tleiades: brb .. coffe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:14]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid says coffeee? inject redbull direct to bloodstream it's 4am!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:14]  Stefan Andersson: Well, as I've mentioned, it does make great sense to transfer the 'visible' assets to the region that is serving them, since they have live connections to all clients that are prospective consumers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:15]  Nebadon Izumi gets gets a OS-Cola&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:15]  Nebadon Izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:15]  Tleiades: back&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:16]  Tleiades: the current implementation, which is pretty simplistic does that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:16]  Charles Krinkeb: Well, I have a problem yet to be solved and that is that on OSGrid, r2090, r2144, r2153 &amp;amp; r2197 all lockup the GridServer after anywhere from 15 minutes to 3 hours or operation.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:16]  Stefan Andersson: Charles, I guess you and nebandon has to work out some way of getting over the 2205 hump?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:16]  Tleiades: the region server gets an asset request from the viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:16]  Tleiades: goes off to the asset server, and retrieves the asset&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: oh&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:17]  Tleiades: and then hands that asset over to the viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: didnt we deterimine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: its bringing up the map&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: that crashes it ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: or was that just a fluke?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:17]  Charles Krinkeb: The issue has been that all UGA tested after r2060 lockup the GridServer after a while. I am happy to test again, but if it locks up, I have no choice but to use r2060 until we figure it out.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:18]  Neas Bade: Back to basic physics I see&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: i thought someone was saying that a few seconds after bringing up the map the grid server was crashing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:18]  Tleiades: who is working with you on that?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:18]  Charles Krinkeb: Optik reported and I confirmed on Sunday that bringing up the mainmap, selecting all the points of interest and then minimizing the mainmap, locked up the GridServer. Mw tried to confirm this test this morning and was not able to duplicate.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: yea it didnt crash on my grid either&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:18]  Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#493 describes this test.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: so maybe its something isoldated to OSgrids UGA&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: isolated&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:19]  Tleiades: do we have logs from a grid server running in debug mode, where it crashes?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:19]  Charles Krinkeb: Or maybe it is something isolated to the server setup.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:20]  Tleiades: well, a crash is a crash :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:20]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: (back reading catchup)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:20]  Charles Krinkeb: not yet. I need to know the proper way to enable debug mode. Is it to change an .xml file or the debug=false variable initialization in OpenSimMain.cs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:20]  Tleiades: when compiling using nant&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:21]  Tleiades: you have to add something about debug ... I had it written down somewhere&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:21]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll make the change and send logs to who?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:21]  Tleiades: and then the opensim.ini verbose flag should be set to true&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:21]  Charles Krinkeb: Would you be willing to put the debug setup on the wiki and I will make a test on Saturday morning with the latest svn.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:21]  Tleiades: add them to the bug&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:21]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll admit our public grid has been getting updates and restarts every dya&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  Stefan Andersson: there's actually an int debug=0 in the code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: but def a lot more than 1min to 3hrs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: it never crashes like that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  Stefan Andersson: that has to be changed to the right level&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  Charles Krinkeb: r2060 runs 24/7 for weeks on UGA&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll make those changes...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  Neas Bade: stefan, is there a good way to change that at compile time?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  Stefan Andersson: There WAS a command for it on the console, but I don't know if it's still there&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  Neas Bade: via the build system&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:22]  Tleiades: we need to press forward, roling back is not an option I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:23]  Neas Bade: tleiades, agreed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:23]  Stefan Andersson: Uh, then, what's 2061?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:23]  Neas Bade: apparently chat modules in grid mode are funny at the moment, I was going to dive into that this afternoon&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:23]  Charles Krinkeb: I agree also, but each test has failed. We do not have a stable GridServer at this point.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: it's ur grid server that's falling over?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: i think one differnce abot osgrid&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: is the many differnt servers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: true&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: all spread out around the world&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: we only have a few remote...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: yea same for me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Charles Krinkeb: Our GridServer is locking up. Not throwing an exception, but not accepting new connections and the console is unresponsive.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: can i throw this up then...? why do some regions just disapear...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: osgrid is much more stressed than any other grid&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, what's the bug where this is accumulating?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: within the same SIM&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:24]  Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#493&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: comms&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: poor comes Sakai&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  danx2 danx0r: hey where are folks&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: within the same (physical server)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: another thing also&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: as far as i can tell&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Tleiades: here we are&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: IRC relay no longer functions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  danx2 danx0r: did I miss yoga warmup?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Charles Krinkeb: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Tleiades: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Charles Krinkeb: 9 avatars, 118mbyte, 2% CPU&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: since about saturday&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Teravus Ousley2 noted that most of the time the sims that you are connected to as a child agent seem to forget you're a child agent and start rejecting packets&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: IRC no longer works&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Neas Bade: nebadon, I suspect that has to do with some of the chat stuff getting funny in grid more&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Tleiades: if nobody else is investigating this, I can do it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: one thing i noticed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Neas Bade: I'll sign up for digging into that one&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: if you have IRC turned on&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Tleiades: I am kind of stuck at the moment anyhow&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: it takes several minutes to start a sim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Stefan Andersson: Now, on the 'pressing forward' issue, I've been working some on avatar appearance; it would be ace if somebody would work with me to implmenet appearance persistence.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: it just sits about 3-4 minutes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  danx2 danx0r: wondering why our feet are in the floor&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Neas Bade: Tleiasdes, stuck on what&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: before it times out and starts&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Stefan Andersson: They are at ground level.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Neas Bade: danx0r, basic physics&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  danx2 danx0r: aw :(&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Tleiades: stefan between you and MW, all my updates on persistance is completely wrecked :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Tleiades: stuck on major overhauls&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Stefan Andersson: that's what you get for committing seldom&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Tleiades: stuck on major overhauls&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Stefan Andersson: commit OFTEN&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: rofl&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Stefan Andersson: BABYSTEPS GODDAMIT&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Stefan Andersson: :D&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Teravus Ousley2: hehe, I've got two patches now for you to inspect, danx0r :P&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Tleiades: says the man who update 161 files in one go :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Tleiades: well, it is a little difficult implementing gridmode inventory in babysteps&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  danx2 danx0r: tevarus -- I'm on it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Tleiades: either is is there, or it isn't&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Stefan Andersson: Yeah, by the way, is everybody in agreement that our base namespace should be OpenSim.Framework and that it should be solved by setting recursive=false?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Tleiades: if only part is there, you have crashes in the viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  danx2 danx0r: but keep in mind, no one will use ODE much until we fix stability&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Stefan Andersson: THat will give us future problems if we want to add subnamespaces in the same assembly&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  danx2 danx0r: I'll put the flag patch in soon&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Stefan Andersson: s/problems/nuisances/&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Neas Bade: Stefan, I think it is cleaner not to do subnamespaces&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Teravus Ousley2: :D the second patch is inertia. .. and it may help the stability problem a bit.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  danx2 danx0r: yes I saw that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Stefan Andersson: Because, if I can get a consensus on the new name, I'll do the flattening tomorrow&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Neas Bade: while it all looks fine and dandy to VS folks, just looking through code it gets confusing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  danx2 danx0r: not sure it will help stability, it only applies to flying&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Stefan Andersson: Neas uhh... you mean, not do subnamespaces in that assembly, or no subnamespaces at all within assemblies?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Tleiades: are we debating two topics at onc?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Tleiades: once?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Stefan Andersson: Yup&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Teravus Ousley2: heh&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Neas Bade: Stefan, I think we should coordinate with Tleiades on major tree changes, as I would like to see his code go in as soon as we can&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Tleiades: ok, that is optimizing our time :-P&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I messages Katherine Berry asking if she would join us... she emailed back and I'll tlak to her in a moment&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Stefan Andersson: Well then, I suggest he COMMITS&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Tleiades: I have already switch strategy, in order to accomodate to the changes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Stefan Andersson is in Tleiades-bashing mode&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Stefan Andersson: &amp;lt;3&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Tleiades: I'm focusing on updating server side code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  danx2 danx0r: sceneobjectpart failed on patch2&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Neas Bade: ok, so lets chill on more tree restructuring until that is in :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Neas Bade: I'm very gun-ho on tree restructure, but I'd also like the grid assets :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Tleiades: no, just go on&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Stefan Andersson: Okay; Tleiades, you tell me when you're done; Neas, it's OpenSim.Framework, no subnamespaces&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Tleiades: I have found ways to adopt to the changes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Neas Bade: stefan: sounds good to me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Stefan Andersson: Tleiades, I take it I can start restructuring?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Teravus Ousley2: patch is probably older then the revision.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Tleiades: yes, go ahead&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  danx2 danx0r: teravus -- apparently.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  danx2 danx0r: sorry about that, shoulda done it sooner&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Teravus Ousley2: I can make a hybrid patch :D&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Neas Bade: danx0r, on the physics front, how can I dig in and tangibly help? I started futzing with physics yesterday on my internal env, and it only takes me a couple of minutes before I manage to do something that launches me into orbit then segfaults mono :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Optik Philtr: im having the same sort of luck with scripting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Optik Philtr: i need to do more reading&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Neas Bade: by the way, we should have a contest to get a screen shot of the highest person in OpenSim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: loll&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Stefan Andersson: ...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Optik Philtr: i would win&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Stefan Andersson: as in, altitude?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Tleiades: :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Neas Bade: yes, as in altitude&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Stefan Andersson: Ah.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  danx2 danx0r: neas --&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Stefan Andersson puts away his toke.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Neas Bade: heh&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  danx2 danx0r: you're sdague?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Neas Bade: yep&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Neas Bade: danx0r, yes &amp;lt;= sdague&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: Um is there any area of interest that I should talk to KAtharine about ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  danx2 danx0r: we discussed a physics controller layer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Neas Bade: yep&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  danx2 danx0r: there needs to be a layer between engine and rest of code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Tleiades: who is Katharine?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: shes the girl that made the Ajaxlife browser&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: she's very interested in becoming a part of the projhect&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  danx2 danx0r: ppl can't just edit terraform, etc willy-nilly&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Tleiades: cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: and she'll IM me in a mom&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Optik Philtr: she is actually a 42 year old man named cliff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: i don't particularly mind who she wants to be but she's talented&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  danx2 danx0r: there needs to be a tighter coupling between object representation in main codebase and physics&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Optik Philtr: exactly&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  Stefan Andersson: Oh, by the way; MW and I have begun adopting the notion of having an 'anemic domain model' layer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  danx2 danx0r: so in a concrete sense --&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  Tleiades: I cannot think of anything, not at the moment, but I am only me :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  danx2 danx0r: what needs to be done is a pretty big refactoring&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  Tleiades: anemic domain model?!?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  danx2 danx0r: and somewhat of a rearchitecture of how physics is dealt with&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  danx2 danx0r: maybe along the lines of what MW and others were proposing a while ago&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Stefan Andersson: That is, an object layer with objects that are well suited as data containers, simple, serializable and not referenceing anything else but other anemic objects&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Neas Bade: danx0r, ok do you have some sketching out of how you'ld like to tackle that?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  danx2 danx0r: though it's been so long, and I know more nowthan I did then, so I'd want to go over it all again&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  danx2 danx0r: neas -- in my mind, yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Stefan Andersson: Typically, the physics and entity layers would use anemic objects as common ground&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  danx2 danx0r: but I really, really need help from someone who understands the scene code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Tleiades: I'm way ahead on you on that &amp;quot;anemic&amp;quot; thing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  danx2 danx0r: I just don't have time or ability to absorb the whole project&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  danx2 danx0r: but if someone else knows enough, we can sketch it out together&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: did u want to bounty some of it?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  Stefan Andersson: Well, I'm reasonably up to date on scene entities... have anybody else been digging into it?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  Tleiades: only on the surface&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  danx2 danx0r: stefan -- your help would be very appreciated&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  danx2 danx0r: tevarus, please chime in if you want&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  danx2 danx0r: tevarus has done some good patches, but I've been derelict&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  danx2 danx0r: r/l work took charge&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  danx2 danx0r: btw I got to go meet with a VC now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  danx2 danx0r: so he can tell us he's not going to fund our co.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  Tleiades: it happens to all of us, from time to time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  danx2 danx0r: but my boss needs to hear it from him&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  danx2 danx0r: ya I'd love to spend more time on this stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  Neas Bade: danx0r thanks for the update and popping in&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  danx2 danx0r: np&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  Stefan Andersson: Well, danx2 - mail the dev list, and I'll be sure to respond&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  danx2 danx0r: I'll try to sketch out sme ideas this week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  Stefan Andersson: Excellent&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  danx2 danx0r: yes dev list is best&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  Neas Bade: sounds great&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  danx2 danx0r: later folks&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Neas Bade: later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Stefan Andersson: bye!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ciao&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Tleiades: does anybody know a good mono compression library&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Optik Philtr: bye Danx&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  danx2 danx0r: teravus, not tevarus!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Tleiades: bye danx0r&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: hey Tleides&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: i noticed in Linux there is a libmono zip package&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Tleiades: hi Nebadone&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  danx2 danx0r: is this logged on IRC?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: let me get the name&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  danx2 danx0r: opensim-osgrid?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: libmono-sharpzip&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: no its a linux package&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Tleiades: the System.IO.Compression.GZipStream crashes on some versions of mono&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Tleiades: I have found another one, but it is GPL'ed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Neas Bade: Tleiades is that still the case with mono &amp;gt;= 1.2.4?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Tleiades: those are the only native ones I have found&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Tleiades: yes, atleast the 1.2.4 I have running on my ubuntu&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Neas Bade: hmmmm&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Tleiades: but it depends, according to the mono bug report&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Tleiades: for some it works, for others .. not&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Optik Philtr: yes i did not have any problems on my ubuntu 7.10 install either&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Tleiades: so we cannot really use it, until people are on a version of mono where it works&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Tleiades: the upgrade from 7.04 to 7.10 was a smooth ride for me too&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Tleiades: currently the servers use rest, for shipping data&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Tleiades: that means that binary data gets tranferred in base64 encoding&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Neas Bade: right, but 7.10 is still 1.2.4. And if there is a bug there, it is sort of a problem. That might require some more investigation.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Neas Bade: ah, which gets somewhat big?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Tleiades: the bug is there, in 1.2.4 for some people&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Tleiades: yes, a little big, that is why I am looking into some sort of compression&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Neas Bade: can we do it without compression first?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Neas Bade: just so compression doesn't gate us&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Tleiades: gate?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Neas Bade: prevent the rest of it from going in&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Tleiades: no&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Neas Bade: why not?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Tleiades: but it will not improve our responsiveness&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Tleiades: but it will not improve our responsiveness&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Tleiades: (I didn't type that twice)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Charles Krinkeb: theres a double once in a while&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Tleiades: we can progress on the servers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Charles Krinkeb: minor, minor bug&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Tleiades: without caring about compression, and put that in at a later time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Neas Bade: ok, cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Tleiades: has anybody tried the grid mode assets? .. not that it makes much sense yet?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Charles Krinkeb: gotta scoot, sorry&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: er nope&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Teravus Ousley2: http://bug.opensecondlife.org/view.php?id=530 .. I've updated the objectproperties patch to the latest revision http://bug.opensecondlife.org/view.php?id=530&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: explain the try'?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, on the internal grid we've got it doesn't work much at the moment&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Neas Bade: though I'll have to figure out what rev the servers are all on at the moment&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Tleiades: strange it works for me, but there are some leaks&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Tleiades: the size of the asset database grows and grows, the backed textures are never removed from the asset database&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: tleiades, any ideas on what rev things started working at?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Tleiades: let me take a peek&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Tleiades: 2194&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Tleiades: you need to activate it in OpenSim.ini&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: dok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Tleiades: and of course, run the asset server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: right :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: with which command?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Tleiades: asset_database = grid&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: that i assume will kill all current sqlite assets?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok this is for MySQL stor ecorrect?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Tleiades: and offcourse, asset_server_url needs to be valid&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Neas Bade: yep&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Tleiades: I have only tested this on mysql&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: i have no SQL table for that do i?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: (i don't remmy)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Tleiades: yes.. there is now conversion/upgrade code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Tleiades: the MySql provider will automagically do that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: nice&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: so it reads your sqlite .db&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: and pushes it to grid?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Tleiades: no&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: well I'll turn it on&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: ++ tleiades&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: and provide some feedback&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Tleiades: well.. I need feedback on what works, and what doesn't work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Tleiades: so if people don't use it, it'll never get fixed and stable&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: well we'll ppund it..&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Optik Philtr: i will enable it as soon as i get home&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: pound&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, I'll get it activated here this afternoon, and help drive out bugs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Tleiades: cool.. that'll be good&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Optik Philtr: we will ppund it as well, just to make sure&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: didn't realize that it was even working&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: any logs u'd like with this too?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: stuff like that probably deserves and email to the -dev list so people know that it is in and they should kick the tires&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Adam Frisby: Allo allo!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Tleiades: the asset server and grid server should log all the relevant stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: hey Adam&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Tleiades: if &amp;quot;verbose=true&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Optik Philtr: hey hey Adam&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Tleiades: hello Adam&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: G'Day Adam&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Adam Frisby: Just got back into Perth then. heh.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Neas Bade: welcome to our happy office hours&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: TP eh?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Optik Philtr: ah perth, so pretty with all tha big trees&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Tleiades: most logs are &amp;quot;notice&amp;quot; level, so &amp;quot;verbose=false&amp;quot; will make 'em go silet&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Tleiades: silent, even&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Neas Bade: oh, one last thing, given all the Daylight Savings Time changes, do we want to move this back an hour so that it ends up the same real time in the northern hemisphere?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: well now is 5am&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Optik Philtr: im good actually, any excuse for a long lunch&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Tleiades: moving it one hour would be good for me, 8PM is easier than 7PM for me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Adam Frisby: Someone needs to put the IRC bridge up for these&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Adam Frisby: better chance of me not missing it. heh.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Neas Bade: Adam, IRC bridge, as well as chat in grid is &amp;quot;funny&amp;quot; at the moment&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Neas Bade: previously this all was bridged&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Adam Frisby: OK, we should take a look at maybe using a IRC lib or something for the bridge - that way it handles errors more gracefully.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Neas Bade: yes, probably a good idea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tleiades: remind me, why aren't we using jabber?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tleiades: remind me, why aren't we using jabber?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tleiades: I forgot&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Adam Frisby: We looked at it for IRC messaging quite a bit.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Neas Bade: because no one has written it yet&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Adam Frisby: Unfortunately there's two reasons why we arnt using it for that:&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: hehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Neas Bade: :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Adam Frisby: a) We cant impersonate users which we need since IM's are fundementally from the sim.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Adam Frisby: b) There's no decent licensed .NET implementations (all closed source)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Tleiades: ok.. sounds like two good reasons&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tleiades: in the long run a is worse than b, I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll b back gotta meet Ajaxlife gurl&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Optik Philtr: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tleiades: yes.. I think I'll dig into some code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tleiades: anything else we need to discuss?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Neas Bade: I don't think so&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Optik Philtr: me too, hopefully i wont keep screwing it up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Neas Bade: plus our hour is up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: thanks all for popping in&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tleiades: like wis&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tleiades: wise&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tleiades: I'll post as usual&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T20:03:07Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: Added log for meeting on 2007-10-30&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 18:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 11:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 14:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 19:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 02:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Agenda for 2007-10-30 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Please and anything you'd like to discuss)&lt;br /&gt;
# 0.5 Feature set&lt;br /&gt;
# Monitoring/Management API (What do we want, SNMP, REST, Anything?)&lt;br /&gt;
=== Previous Agenda Items ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Logs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-30]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page</id>
		<title>Main Page</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T12:27:30Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* OpenSim 0.4 Released! */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:opensim_avatar.png|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is a BSD Licensed Open Source project to develop a functioning virtual worlds server platform capable of supporting multiple clients and servers in a heterogeneous grid structure.  OpenSim is written in [http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm C#], and can run under [http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page Mono] or the [http://www.microsoft.com/net/ Microsoft .NET] runtimes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Latest News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== OpenSim 0.4 Released! ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The OpenSim team is happy to announce the first alpha release of OpenSim, version 0.4.  This release focuses on stand-alone mode (with one or more regions).  Some stuff works, a lot doesn't.  If it breaks, you get to keep '''both''' pieces.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stuff that works:&lt;br /&gt;
* standalone mode with one or more regions&lt;br /&gt;
* basic physics (no object collisions)&lt;br /&gt;
* persistence of users, prims, assets, and inventory via [http://www.sqlite.org/ sqlite]&lt;br /&gt;
* basic building, custom-texture uploads&lt;br /&gt;
* avatar editing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More advanced physics, in-world scripting, grid mode, and support for other database backends are not supported in this release, though they may work from time-to-time before crashing with an earth-shattering kaboom!  All of these are under active development, and are being worked on for the 0.5 release.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Source distributions in both .tar.gz and .zip can be found at the [http://dist.opensimulator.org/ OpenSim Downloads site].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Getting Started with OpenSim ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Install]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to install the simulator software.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Configuration]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to configure the simulator for various modes.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Network settings]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to setup the network for the simulator.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Maintenance]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to upgrade and backup your installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Running]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to run standalone, local grid &amp;amp; public grid modes, and server side commands.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Connecting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to connect to an OpenSim server.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Troubleshooting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to trouble shoot your OpenSim installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[FAQ]] &amp;amp;mdash; Frequently asked questions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OpenSim Development ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Development Team|OpenSim Team]] is currently working towards the 0.5 release of OpenSim.  See the [[Roadmap]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Top 10 bugs we are working on [[Top 10 Bugs]] are a dynamic list of those bugs that affect forward progress.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Recent Changes'''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;rss&amp;gt;http://cia.vc/stats/project/opensim/.rss|max=5|title=none&amp;lt;/rss&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Handy Documentation'''&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Testing]] &amp;amp;mdash; What is tested.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: TechRef]] &amp;amp;mdash; A technical description of the simulator operation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Grids]] &amp;amp;mdash; Known Public grids currently available.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.4 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.5 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Class Diagrams]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Scripting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use scripts and what limitations apply.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[PhysicsEngines]]   &amp;amp;mdash; Options for physics engines in OpenSim.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[MonoSqlite]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the database model currently works.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Monodevelop]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use the [[monodevelop]] IDE for editing C# solutions.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[llFunction implementation status]] &amp;amp;mdash; What LSL commands has been implemented.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the ScriptEngine looks internally.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[RegionModules]] &amp;amp;mdash; The various modules that are used in the RegionServer and how to write new ones.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Screenshots]] &amp;amp;mdash; Various OpenSim screenshots.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Threading strategy]] &amp;amp;mdash; How threading is implemented and handled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Participating in the OpenSim Community ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source open source] project. This means that it is developed by anyone who wants to participate. This could be you!  We welcome testers and developers alike.  Please see the [[Contributions Policy]] for more details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you ''need help'' or ''want to help'' the best way to get in touch is [[IRC]] (chat network). There is a lot of activity there every day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Getting online ===&lt;br /&gt;
There are at least two public grids and several standalone arrays running 24/7. For the casual user as well as those who want to run their own public regions, there is a list of available sims at [[OpenSim: Grids]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the OpenSim developers occasionally meet in-world to discuss various issues.  See [[Office Hours]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== IRC ===&lt;br /&gt;
IRC on EFNet, channel #OpenSim. Download an IRC client like [http://www.xchat.org/ X-Chat] (or [http://www.silverex.org/ here] for Windows) and go to EFNet (server irc.efnet.net), channel #OpenSim. If you already have an IRC client installed you can just follow [irc://irc.efnet.net/OpenSim this link].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mailing lists ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users opensim-users] - a user support forum for OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev opensim-dev] - development discussion of OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-commits opensim-commits] - an email list for svn commits&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Source Code ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can browse the source code for opensim at [http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi OpenSim SVN browser]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Anonymous Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co http://opensimulator.org/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Developer Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co svn+ssh://USERNAME@opensimulator.org/var/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bugs ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can report bugs at the [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/ Mantis opensim bug tracker].  There are also RSS feeds available of the bug tracker:&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=0 All issues]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=9 OpenSim Planning]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=10 libsecondlife Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=4 libsecondlife-cs]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=13 libsecondlife-web]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=11 OpenSim Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=16 OpenAsset]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=15 OpenGrid]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=5 OpenSim]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=17 OpenUser]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=18 Architecture working group]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=21 Agent domain services]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=20 Architecture specifications]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=19 Mudata]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=22 Region domain services]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap</id>
		<title>Roadmap</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T12:19:44Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: Marking asset server as complete&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The big massive to do list.  Will start to try to put up content in reasonable order here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.5 ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** &amp;lt;strike&amp;gt;Enable mysql for storing assets&amp;lt;/strike&amp;gt; '''done'''&lt;br /&gt;
** &amp;lt;strike&amp;gt;Enable mysql for inventory&amp;lt;/strike&amp;gt; '''done'''&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** &amp;lt;strike&amp;gt;Asset Server, using a primitive asset format&amp;lt;/strike&amp;gt; '''done'''&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.6 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Future ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Uncategorized ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** Enable mysql database&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset Server&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
** User Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** grid mode scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** complete LSL functions&lt;br /&gt;
** Tedd's remote scripting rewrite&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Physics&lt;br /&gt;
** ODE Terrain Bug - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
** BulletX work&lt;br /&gt;
** Hollow Prims support (need to write for 20 prim types)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Repository cleanup&lt;br /&gt;
** mercurial mirror to let people easily branch - sdague&lt;br /&gt;
** opensim-libs - move libraries to external svn - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Canned Assets&lt;br /&gt;
** Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
** Bodies&lt;br /&gt;
** Prim Objects&lt;br /&gt;
** Animations&lt;br /&gt;
** Textures&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page</id>
		<title>Main Page</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T10:50:16Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:opensim_avatar.png|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is a BSD Licensed Open Source project to develop a functioning virtual worlds server platform capable of supporting multiple clients and servers in a heterogeneous grid structure.  OpenSim is written in [http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm C#], and can run under [http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page Mono] or the [http://www.microsoft.com/net/ Microsoft .NET] runtimes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Latest News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== OpenSim 0.4 Released! ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The OpenSim team is happy to announce the first alpha release of OpenSim, version 0.4.  This release focuses on stand-alone mode (with one or more regions).  Some stuff works, a lot doesn't.  If it breaks, you get to keep '''both''' pieces.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stuff that works:&lt;br /&gt;
* standalone mode with one or more regions&lt;br /&gt;
* basic physics (no object collisions)&lt;br /&gt;
* persistence of users, prims, assets, and inventory via [[sqlite]]&lt;br /&gt;
* basic building, custom-texture uploads&lt;br /&gt;
* avatar editing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More advanced physics, in-world scripting, grid mode, and support for other database backends are not supported in this release, though they may work from time-to-time before crashing with an earth-shattering kaboom!  All of these are under active development, and are being worked on for the 0.5 release.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Source distributions in both .tar.gz and .zip can be found at the [http://dist.opensimulator.org/ OpenSim Downloads site].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Getting Started with OpenSim ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Install]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to install the simulator software.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Configuration]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to configure the simulator for various modes.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Network settings]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to setup the network for the simulator.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Maintenance]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to upgrade and backup your installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Running]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to run standalone, local grid &amp;amp; public grid modes, and server side commands.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Connecting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to connect to an OpenSim server.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Troubleshooting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to trouble shoot your OpenSim installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[FAQ]] &amp;amp;mdash; Frequently asked questions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OpenSim Development ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Development Team|OpenSim Team]] is currently working towards the 0.5 release of OpenSim.  See the [[Roadmap]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Top 10 bugs we are working on [[Top 10 Bugs]] are a dynamic list of those bugs that affect forward progress.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Recent Changes'''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;rss&amp;gt;http://cia.vc/stats/project/opensim/.rss|max=5|title=none&amp;lt;/rss&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Handy Documentation'''&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Testing]] &amp;amp;mdash; What is tested.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: TechRef]] &amp;amp;mdash; A technical description of the simulator operation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Grids]] &amp;amp;mdash; Known Public grids currently available.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.4 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.5 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Class Diagrams]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Scripting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use scripts and what limitations apply.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[PhysicsEngines]]   &amp;amp;mdash; Options for physics engines in OpenSim.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[MonoSqlite]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the database model currently works.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Monodevelop]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use the [[monodevelop]] IDE for editing C# solutions.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[llFunction implementation status]] &amp;amp;mdash; What LSL commands has been implemented.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the ScriptEngine looks internally.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[RegionModules]] &amp;amp;mdash; The various modules that are used in the RegionServer and how to write new ones.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Screenshots]] &amp;amp;mdash; Various OpenSim screenshots.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Threading strategy]] &amp;amp;mdash; How threading is implemented and handled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Participating in the OpenSim Community ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source open source] project. This means that it is developed by anyone who wants to participate. This could be you!  We welcome testers and developers alike.  Please see the [[Contributions Policy]] for more details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you ''need help'' or ''want to help'' the best way to get in touch is [[IRC]] (chat network). There is a lot of activity there every day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Getting online ===&lt;br /&gt;
There are at least two public grids and several standalone arrays running 24/7. For the casual user as well as those who want to run their own public regions, there is a list of available sims at [[OpenSim: Grids]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the OpenSim developers occasionally meet in-world to discuss various issues.  See [[Office Hours]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== IRC ===&lt;br /&gt;
IRC on EFNet, channel #OpenSim. Download an IRC client like [http://www.xchat.org/ X-Chat] (or [http://www.silverex.org/ here] for Windows) and go to EFNet (server irc.efnet.net), channel #OpenSim. If you already have an IRC client installed you can just follow [irc://irc.efnet.net/OpenSim this link].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mailing lists ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users opensim-users] - a user support forum for OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev opensim-dev] - development discussion of OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-commits opensim-commits] - an email list for svn commits&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Source Code ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can browse the source code for opensim at [http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi OpenSim SVN browser]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Anonymous Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co http://opensimulator.org/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Developer Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co svn+ssh://USERNAME@opensimulator.org/var/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bugs ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can report bugs at the [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/ Mantis opensim bug tracker].  There are also RSS feeds available of the bug tracker:&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=0 All issues]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=9 OpenSim Planning]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=10 libsecondlife Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=4 libsecondlife-cs]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=13 libsecondlife-web]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=11 OpenSim Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=16 OpenAsset]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=15 OpenGrid]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=5 OpenSim]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=17 OpenUser]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=18 Architecture working group]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=21 Agent domain services]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=20 Architecture specifications]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=19 Mudata]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=22 Region domain services]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page</id>
		<title>Main Page</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T10:48:51Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:opensim_avatar.png|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is a BSD Licensed Open Source project to develop a functioning virtual worlds server platform capable of supporting multiple clients and servers in a heterogeneous grid structure.  OpenSim is written in [[C#]], and can run under [http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page Mono] or the [http://www.microsoft.com/net/ Microsoft .NET] runtimes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Latest News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== OpenSim 0.4 Released! ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The OpenSim team is happy to announce the first alpha release of OpenSim, version 0.4.  This release focuses on stand-alone mode (with one or more regions).  Some stuff works, a lot doesn't.  If it breaks, you get to keep '''both''' pieces.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stuff that works:&lt;br /&gt;
* standalone mode with one or more regions&lt;br /&gt;
* basic physics (no object collisions)&lt;br /&gt;
* persistence of users, prims, assets, and inventory via [[sqlite]]&lt;br /&gt;
* basic building, custom-texture uploads&lt;br /&gt;
* avatar editing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More advanced physics, in-world scripting, grid mode, and support for other database backends are not supported in this release, though they may work from time-to-time before crashing with an earth-shattering kaboom!  All of these are under active development, and are being worked on for the 0.5 release.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Source distributions in both .tar.gz and .zip can be found at the [http://dist.opensimulator.org/ OpenSim Downloads site].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Getting Started with OpenSim ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Install]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to install the simulator software.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Configuration]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to configure the simulator for various modes.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Network settings]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to setup the network for the simulator.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Maintenance]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to upgrade and backup your installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Running]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to run standalone, local grid &amp;amp; public grid modes, and server side commands.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Connecting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to connect to an OpenSim server.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Troubleshooting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to trouble shoot your OpenSim installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[FAQ]] &amp;amp;mdash; Frequently asked questions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OpenSim Development ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Development Team|OpenSim Team]] is currently working towards the 0.5 release of OpenSim.  See the [[Roadmap]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Top 10 bugs we are working on [[Top 10 Bugs]] are a dynamic list of those bugs that affect forward progress.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Recent Changes'''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;rss&amp;gt;http://cia.vc/stats/project/opensim/.rss|max=5|title=none&amp;lt;/rss&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Handy Documentation'''&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Testing]] &amp;amp;mdash; What is tested.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: TechRef]] &amp;amp;mdash; A technical description of the simulator operation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Grids]] &amp;amp;mdash; Known Public grids currently available.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.4 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.5 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Class Diagrams]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Scripting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use scripts and what limitations apply.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[PhysicsEngines]]   &amp;amp;mdash; Options for physics engines in OpenSim.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[MonoSqlite]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the database model currently works.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Monodevelop]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use the [[monodevelop]] IDE for editing C# solutions.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[llFunction implementation status]] &amp;amp;mdash; What LSL commands has been implemented.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the ScriptEngine looks internally.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[RegionModules]] &amp;amp;mdash; The various modules that are used in the RegionServer and how to write new ones.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Screenshots]] &amp;amp;mdash; Various OpenSim screenshots.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Threading strategy]] &amp;amp;mdash; How threading is implemented and handled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Participating in the OpenSim Community ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source open source] project. This means that it is developed by anyone who wants to participate. This could be you!  We welcome testers and developers alike.  Please see the [[Contributions Policy]] for more details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you ''need help'' or ''want to help'' the best way to get in touch is [[IRC]] (chat network). There is a lot of activity there every day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Getting online ===&lt;br /&gt;
There are at least two public grids and several standalone arrays running 24/7. For the casual user as well as those who want to run their own public regions, there is a list of available sims at [[OpenSim: Grids]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the OpenSim developers occasionally meet in-world to discuss various issues.  See [[Office Hours]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== IRC ===&lt;br /&gt;
IRC on EFNet, channel #OpenSim. Download an IRC client like [http://www.xchat.org/ X-Chat] (or [http://www.silverex.org/ here] for Windows) and go to EFNet (server irc.efnet.net), channel #OpenSim. If you already have an IRC client installed you can just follow [irc://irc.efnet.net/OpenSim this link].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mailing lists ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users opensim-users] - a user support forum for OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev opensim-dev] - development discussion of OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-commits opensim-commits] - an email list for svn commits&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Source Code ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can browse the source code for opensim at [http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi OpenSim SVN browser]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Anonymous Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co http://opensimulator.org/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Developer Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co svn+ssh://USERNAME@opensimulator.org/var/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bugs ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can report bugs at the [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/ Mantis opensim bug tracker].  There are also RSS feeds available of the bug tracker:&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=0 All issues]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=9 OpenSim Planning]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=10 libsecondlife Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=4 libsecondlife-cs]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=13 libsecondlife-web]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=11 OpenSim Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=16 OpenAsset]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=15 OpenGrid]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=5 OpenSim]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=17 OpenUser]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=18 Architecture working group]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=21 Agent domain services]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=20 Architecture specifications]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=19 Mudata]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=22 Region domain services]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page</id>
		<title>Main Page</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T10:47:30Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:opensim_avatar.png|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is a BSD Licensed Open Source project to develop a functioning virtual worlds server platform capable of supporting multiple clients and servers in a heterogeneous grid structure.  OpenSim is written in [[C#]], and can run under [http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page Mono] or the [http://www.microsoft.com/net/|Microsoft .NET] runtimes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Latest News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== OpenSim 0.4 Released! ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The OpenSim team is happy to announce the first alpha release of OpenSim, version 0.4.  This release focuses on stand-alone mode (with one or more regions).  Some stuff works, a lot doesn't.  If it breaks, you get to keep '''both''' pieces.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stuff that works:&lt;br /&gt;
* standalone mode with one or more regions&lt;br /&gt;
* basic physics (no object collisions)&lt;br /&gt;
* persistence of users, prims, assets, and inventory via [[sqlite]]&lt;br /&gt;
* basic building, custom-texture uploads&lt;br /&gt;
* avatar editing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More advanced physics, in-world scripting, grid mode, and support for other database backends are not supported in this release, though they may work from time-to-time before crashing with an earth-shattering kaboom!  All of these are under active development, and are being worked on for the 0.5 release.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Source distributions in both .tar.gz and .zip can be found at the [http://dist.opensimulator.org/ OpenSim Downloads site].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Getting Started with OpenSim ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Install]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to install the simulator software.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Configuration]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to configure the simulator for various modes.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Network settings]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to setup the network for the simulator.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Maintenance]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to upgrade and backup your installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Running]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to run standalone, local grid &amp;amp; public grid modes, and server side commands.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Connecting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to connect to an OpenSim server.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Troubleshooting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to trouble shoot your OpenSim installation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[FAQ]] &amp;amp;mdash; Frequently asked questions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OpenSim Development ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Development Team|OpenSim Team]] is currently working towards the 0.5 release of OpenSim.  See the [[Roadmap]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Top 10 bugs we are working on [[Top 10 Bugs]] are a dynamic list of those bugs that affect forward progress.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Recent Changes'''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;rss&amp;gt;http://cia.vc/stats/project/opensim/.rss|max=5|title=none&amp;lt;/rss&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Handy Documentation'''&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Testing]] &amp;amp;mdash; What is tested.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: TechRef]] &amp;amp;mdash; A technical description of the simulator operation.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Grids]] &amp;amp;mdash; Known Public grids currently available.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.4 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.5 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Class Diagrams]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Scripting]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use scripts and what limitations apply.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[PhysicsEngines]]   &amp;amp;mdash; Options for physics engines in OpenSim.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[MonoSqlite]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the database model currently works.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Monodevelop]] &amp;amp;mdash; How to use the [[monodevelop]] IDE for editing C# solutions.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[llFunction implementation status]] &amp;amp;mdash; What LSL commands has been implemented.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine]] &amp;amp;mdash; How the ScriptEngine looks internally.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[RegionModules]] &amp;amp;mdash; The various modules that are used in the RegionServer and how to write new ones.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Screenshots]] &amp;amp;mdash; Various OpenSim screenshots.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Threading strategy]] &amp;amp;mdash; How threading is implemented and handled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Participating in the OpenSim Community ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source open source] project. This means that it is developed by anyone who wants to participate. This could be you!  We welcome testers and developers alike.  Please see the [[Contributions Policy]] for more details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you ''need help'' or ''want to help'' the best way to get in touch is [[IRC]] (chat network). There is a lot of activity there every day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Getting online ===&lt;br /&gt;
There are at least two public grids and several standalone arrays running 24/7. For the casual user as well as those who want to run their own public regions, there is a list of available sims at [[OpenSim: Grids]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the OpenSim developers occasionally meet in-world to discuss various issues.  See [[Office Hours]] for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== IRC ===&lt;br /&gt;
IRC on EFNet, channel #OpenSim. Download an IRC client like [http://www.xchat.org/ X-Chat] (or [http://www.silverex.org/ here] for Windows) and go to EFNet (server irc.efnet.net), channel #OpenSim. If you already have an IRC client installed you can just follow [irc://irc.efnet.net/OpenSim this link].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mailing lists ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users opensim-users] - a user support forum for OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev opensim-dev] - development discussion of OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-commits opensim-commits] - an email list for svn commits&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Source Code ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can browse the source code for opensim at [http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi OpenSim SVN browser]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Anonymous Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co http://opensimulator.org/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Developer Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co svn+ssh://USERNAME@opensimulator.org/var/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bugs ===&lt;br /&gt;
You can report bugs at the [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/ Mantis opensim bug tracker].  There are also RSS feeds available of the bug tracker:&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=0 All issues]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=9 OpenSim Planning]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=10 libsecondlife Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=4 libsecondlife-cs]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=13 libsecondlife-web]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=11 OpenSim Overview]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=16 OpenAsset]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=15 OpenGrid]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=5 OpenSim]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=17 OpenUser]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=18 Architecture working group]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=21 Agent domain services]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=20 Architecture specifications]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=19 Mudata]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/issues_rss.php?project_id=22 Region domain services]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T10:44:04Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 18:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 11:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 14:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 19:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 02:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Agenda for 2007-10-30 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Please and anything you'd like to discuss)&lt;br /&gt;
# 0.5 Feature set&lt;br /&gt;
# Monitoring/Management API (What do we want, SNMP, REST, Anything?)&lt;br /&gt;
=== Previous Agenda Items ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Logs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T10:43:40Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Agenda for 2007-10-23 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 18:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 11:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 14:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 20:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 02:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Agenda for 2007-10-30 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Please and anything you'd like to discuss)&lt;br /&gt;
# 0.5 Feature set&lt;br /&gt;
# Monitoring/Management API (What do we want, SNMP, REST, Anything?)&lt;br /&gt;
=== Previous Agenda Items ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Logs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T10:41:36Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Previous Agenda Items */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 18:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 11:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 14:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 20:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 02:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Agenda for 2007-10-23 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Please and anything you'd like to discuss)&lt;br /&gt;
# Physics Testing&lt;br /&gt;
# Library Reorganization&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Previous Agenda Items ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Logs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-30T10:41:13Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Previous Agenda Items */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 18:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 11:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 14:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 20:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 02:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Agenda for 2007-10-23 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Please and anything you'd like to discuss)&lt;br /&gt;
# Physics Testing&lt;br /&gt;
# Library Reorganization&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Previous Agenda Items ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
# Comms protocol(s)&lt;br /&gt;
# Manangement/Monitoring (SNMP, or similar approaches)&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Logs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Development_Team</id>
		<title>Development Team</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Development_Team"/>
				<updated>2007-10-29T06:28:45Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== OpenSim Core Developers ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(please add in as much info as you like for your name)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table border=&amp;quot;1&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;IRC Nick &amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;SL Avatar&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Time Zone&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;(UTC)&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Org&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Areas of Interest&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:MW|MW]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Michael Wright&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Wright Juran&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+0&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;everything&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:Adam Frisby|Adam Frisby]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Adam Frisby&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Adam Zaius&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+8&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;DeepThink Pty Ltd&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Terrain, Performance&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:MingChen|MingChen]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-6&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;DeepThink Pty Ltd&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:lbsa71|lbsa71]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Stefan Andersson&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;PierreJoseph Proudhon&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+1&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tribal Media AB&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt; 3D and Web Integration&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:SeanDague|sdague]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Sean Dague&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Neas Bade&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;IBM&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Database, Linux&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:babblefrog|babblefrog]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Brian McBee&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Dogen Coldstream&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-8&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Disorganized&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:Tedd|Tedd]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tedd Hansen&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tedd Maa&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+1&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tedd Hansen&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Programming/Scripting/Architecture&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:danx0r|danx0r]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Dan Miller&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Albert Pascal&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-8&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;squiggle.com&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;PHEEZIKS; everything&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:dalien|dalien]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;ZeroPoint&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Guilderoy&amp;amp;nbsp;Dench&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Programming/Database&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tleiades&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tleiades&amp;amp;nbsp;Hax&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+1&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Grid servers/Database&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;cfk&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Charles&amp;amp;nbsp;Krinke&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Charlesk&amp;amp;nbsp;Bing&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-8&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Reliability/Grid servers/ll-functions&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:chi11ken|chi11ken]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Jeff Ames&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Chillken Proto&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+9&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;3Di&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Additional Developers/Testers/Contributors ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table border=&amp;quot;1&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;IRC Nick &amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;SL Avatar&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Time Zone&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;(UTC)&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Org&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Areas of Interest&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Gareth&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;BigFootAg&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:Darok|Darok]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Darok Kaminski&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+1&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Physics engines (especially BulletX)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Ldvoipeng&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;idoru&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:Magi|Magi]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Andy Agnew&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Magi Merlin&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+10&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Spun Pty Ltd&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;3D Web Integration, Database stuff and playing with the odds and ends box.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;john_&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;John&amp;amp;nbsp;Moyer&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;VAJohn&amp;amp;nbsp;GeekSquad or&amp;amp;nbsp;Matthew&amp;amp;nbsp;Kendal&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Best&amp;amp;nbsp;Buy/Geek&amp;amp;nbsp;Squad&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:ClarkZone|ClarkZone]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Troy Admin(@ClarkZone)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Troy Childs(Secondlife)\Troy Admin (ClarkZone)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Http://clarkzone.dyndns.org&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tester and Grid Host&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:aiaustin|aiaustin]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Ai Austin&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Ai&amp;amp;nbsp;Austin&amp;amp;nbsp;(Second&amp;amp;nbsp;Life)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;Ai&amp;amp;nbsp;Beta&amp;amp;nbsp;(DeepGrid)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+0&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;AIAI,&amp;amp;nbsp;University&amp;amp;nbsp;of&amp;amp;nbsp;Edinburgh&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~ai/&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Windows Vista tests&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:balthazar|balthazar]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Trevor Brooks&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Balthazar Sin&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;None&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Terrains, testing and some small coding tasks&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:jimbo2120|jimbo2120]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Michael Osias&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Illuminous Beltran&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;IBM&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Grid, AI, Skynet, coding and testing&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-23</id>
		<title>Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-23"/>
				<updated>2007-10-23T20:09:03Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: New page: first part of meeting log, was lost  [10:25]  cfk say, ODE INTERNAL ERROR 1: assertion &amp;quot;bNormalizationResult&amp;quot; failed in _dNormalize4() [../../include/ode/odemath.h]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt; [10:25]  nebadon s...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;first part of meeting log, was lost&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  cfk say, ODE INTERNAL ERROR 1: assertion &amp;quot;bNormalizationResult&amp;quot; failed in _dNormalize4() [../../include/ode/odemath.h]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  nebadon say, yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  nebadon say, somone was flying around&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  nebadon say, smashing into every prim on the server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Neas Bade: ok, back now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  You: back&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: nice quick recovery&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Charles Krinkeb: Sorry about that, had a little ODE INTERNAL ERROR 1: assertion &amp;quot;bNormalizationResult&amp;quot; failed in _dNormalize4() [../../include/ode/odemath.h]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  You: back&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Sakai openlifegrid: ah everyone died...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  You: where were we?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: ya server crashed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  You: have we lost the chat log?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Charles Krinkeb: 0.5 features, I think.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: probably Tleides&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: unless someone has chat log enabled&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Neas Bade: we were discussing release. I think that at this point we should start building the roadmap&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Sakai openlifegrid: last i heard was.. hsitory should be in the client&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: only if you turn it on Sakai&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Charles Krinkeb: Who should be point on the roadmap, Neas?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Sakai openlifegrid: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: and i dont have it on&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  You: maybe we can pull it of IRC?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Wright Juran: that will teach me to write long messages, wrote a long reply and the server was gone when I pressed send&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: irc has it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:27]  Neas Bade: there is some stuff I put in there after the last meeting, but there is clearly a lot of other things we need&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  You: ok, the reason why I am for a small feature set in 0.5 is a goal of releasing frequently&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Charles Krinkeb: I'll take care of the chat log after the meeting from the irc backup.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  danx danx0r: did everyone crash or just me?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Nahona Nakamori: excuse me, completly out of the subject but can i give you two entry to remove from sim db ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  You: but in a way you could say we release 4-5-6 times a day&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:28]  Nahona Nakamori: excuse me, completly out of the subject but can i give you two entry to remove from sim db ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  You: the region server crashed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Sakai openlifegrid: hehe yes and i build them everyday!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Wright Juran: yeah but with 0.5 I think we always knew and said it would be a big release with a lot of work done, so we can get the foundations of grid mode done&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Neas Bade: I think the problem with that is that there is a bunch of interconnected issues around grid that don't lend themselves to small incremental right now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Wright Juran: and I'm 100% for that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:29]  Charles Krinkeb: I think feature requests are appropriate as Mantis entries. This is more of a strategic meeting.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Wright Juran: ++ to Neas Bades comments,&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Neas Bade: he, btw IM is &amp;quot;funny&amp;quot; right now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Charles Krinkeb: Mw. If gridmode needs to break for weeks or months, Please do what you need to do and we will support you.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Sakai openlifegrid: yes IM is crossing the names&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Sakai openlifegrid: in the display&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Wright Juran: Charles, err grid mode is broke :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:30]  Charles Krinkeb: Lets not use IM&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Charles Krinkeb: Understood.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  You: I think most of the server backends can be done incrementally&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Wright Juran: so are we saying that Adam's IM module doesn't work?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  danx danx0r: my issue is the reports of sporadic ODE crashes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:31]  Neas Bade: it doesn't display names correctly&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  danx danx0r: I can't fix that unless I get crash reports&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Neas Bade: I'll look into it later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  You: why not build on top of jabber?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  danx danx0r: and then I'll probably have to add some debugging and get another crash to really nail it down&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Blue Mouse: yes, please jabber&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: one problem danx is the ode exceptions dont say much&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Charles Krinkeb: Mw: If you need me to change my strategy on inviting new sims and new users onto OSGrid, just tell me what you need that to be like and I will accomodate your.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: its always the same error&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Charles Krinkeb: desires.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:32]  Wright Juran: we have talked about using jabber before&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Neas Bade: well, Tleiades, I think that the way to resolve your point of view with some of the other points of view is to get lots of code in the tree to mature it faster :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Wright Juran: and for IM's that has been the plan, just hard finding a c# jabber server that we could modify&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Neas Bade: we did a core group vote of confidence as we got close to the release last time, which happened a month after the original date was set&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Blue Mouse: could we write a quick shim that connects to the jabber.org server?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  You: sean .. I do try, but I have a daytime job, and a family as well :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  Neas Bade: yep, I understand :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:33]  danx danx0r: neb, I haven't gotten a crash from you or charles in over a week, since 0.9 ODE fix&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Blue Mouse: that was actually a question more intended to question license &amp;amp; distro issues&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  danx danx0r: if I get a report, I will add debugging info around that part of the code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Wright Juran: if we want releases often, then we can do 0.4.X releases and even introduce some grid improvement features into them, just think 0.5 should wait&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  danx danx0r: so next crash will be more verbose&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i havent crashe dDan&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: ODE crashing has virtually stopped for me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Charles Krinkeb: WP just crashed with ODE INTERNAL ERROR 1: assertion &amp;quot;bNormalizationResult&amp;quot; failed in _dNormalize4() [../../include/ode/odemath.h] , Dan&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Sakai openlifegrid: we saw a fair bit of it last week...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i know this server is running Mono 1.3.2?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: im wondering if mono is contributing to problems here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: yea thats the standard ODE crash&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: pretty much&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: rarely do you get much more than that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Neas Bade: so, lets try to turn this around to things that need attention in the next week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Charles Krinkeb: no. mono-1.2.3.1&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: ah yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:35]  You: my reason for wanting a quick release, is based on &amp;quot;release frequently&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Neas Bade: 1) IM is funny, I'll sign up to try to fix that by next week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  danx danx0r: thx charles&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  You: but since we - in a way - release 4-5-6 times a day, in svn, I have come to agree with the longer target for 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  lmmz say, I just upgraded my regions to mono 1.2.5. After some trouble upgrading, it seems to work fine.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Neas Bade: 2) Physics, obviously needs some love&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:36]  Wright Juran: I'll sign up to try to get time to make a start on the asset module (that sends the data to the client) but still a busy time for me so can't promise it by next week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Charles Krinkeb: Mw, Neas? I will need some guidance on when you will feel comfortable moving beyond mono-1.2.3.1. Perhaps a list of recommended versions we are dependent on would be helpful?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Sakai openlifegrid: well if a longer target date means a more stable envorinment I think it's worth it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Neas Bade: is there something that can be done to help debug that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  lmmz say, Adam says that mono 1.2.3 has known issues.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  You: by next week, I plan to have a transfer of assets from the asset server to the region server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Neas Bade: I've gone to 1.2.4 on everything as that's what's in gutsy&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: im using 1.2.5.1 on all of my servers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Tleiades Hax is on gutsy too&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:37]  Neas Bade: Wright Juran: yeh, not so much asking for people to say &amp;quot;this will be done by next week&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Charles Krinkeb: Should I plan on updating the UGAS for OSGrid to mono-1.2.4?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Neas Bade: but more just &amp;quot;here are some things people will look at&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Neas Bade: progress is made as best it can be&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: charles i thik that would be very good&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  lmmz say, My regions are on FF with forced 1.2.5.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Wright Juran: making 0.5 a target release of sometime this year, is really in opensim terms sticking to release often, as our first release (0.4) took what 8 months?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Charles Krinkeb: I need mw's opinion, I know everyone elses.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  You: ok .. I plan to introduce a generic REST client, which can be reused to query rest servers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Neas Bade: :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:38]  Neas Bade: great tleiades&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  Neas Bade: danx0r what kind of help do you need on the physics front?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:39]  Wright Juran: Charles, opinion on mono? I think the others are in a better position to say, as they use mono more than me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  You: I think it is safe to move mono requirements up to 1.2.4, now gutsy has been released&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Neas Bade: also, some of the other folks here on IBM are looking at helping to fill out the LSL implementation. No promisses on speed, as it is all free time stuff, but hopefuly more patches from folks like Illumious coming&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  You: I remember we discussed the fact that ubuntu was stuck on 1.2.3&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Charles Krinkeb: If no one objects, I will begin heading in the direction of updating OSGrid from mono-1.2.3.1 to mono-1.2.4 over the next week or so.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Neas Bade: yeh, 1.2.4 is probably recommended new version&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Charles Krinkeb: If no one objects, I will begin heading in the direction of updating OSGrid from mono-1.2.3.1 to mono-1.2.4 over the next week or so.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: very good&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Neas Bade: sounds good cfk&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Wright Juran: sounds good&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: i think thats great charles&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  lmmz say, sounds good!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  Neas Bade: danx0r you still in world?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: also since Rookiie is here we should acknowledge his really amazing Grid Web Interface&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  Neas Bade: oh, another thing, MW posted a great glossary explanation on the mailing list&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: he really did a great job&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  Charles Krinkeb: Does the top 10 bug list on the wiki make sense to everyone? Add to it as appropriate. But, only 10 on the list max.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  Nebadon Izumi: http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/opensimwi&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  lmmz say, Great job, Rookiie!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  Neas Bade: is there a volunteer to build a glossary in the wiki based on that post?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  Neas Bade: yes, great job on opensimwi&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  You: I love the top 10 bug list&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:42]  Charles Krinkeb: sdague, mw. I would like to adopt this, but have some issues with modifying the users table. I dont want to make it incompatible with OpenSim on OSGrid.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  Wright Juran: of course though I am for 0.5 being a big release, the problem with big releases in a open source project are that when there are busy months for the developers (on non project releated things) it does effect the release more than if it was a small feature release&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  Neas Bade: I think the top 10 bug list is definitely a good thing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:43]  Sakai openlifegrid: perhaps an intermediate release is more appropriate?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Sakai openlifegrid: drawing on ur 0.4.x idea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: Does anyone think that adding fields to the user table have any adverse effects on grid mode functionality?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Neas Bade: Charles, I think perhaps it would be good to email out the top 10 bug list to the mailing list o na weekly basis&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  danx danx0r: are we agreed that ODE goal is no more ugly crashes?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  You: cfk... if you can send me the table defs, I can have a look at updating the table layout&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Neas Bade: danx0r I agreed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: i personally dont see how it could effect it but would like others opinions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  danx danx0r: as opposed to focusing on niceties like not bouncing 500 meters&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  You: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  paulie Femto: yep&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Sakai openlifegrid: :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  danx danx0r: ok I may put in hax to basically reset physics if I get that exception&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  You: crashing is worse than things not working right&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: Tleiades maybe you can just download the opensimwi&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:44]  Charles Krinkeb: done, Neas. Next subject, I will put my concerns about adopting opensimwi on the mailing list also. I need some technical guidance before I modify the users table.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: and have a look&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  danx danx0r: so instead of crashing it will just zero velocities and make positions sane&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Sakai openlifegrid: def&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Neas Bade: I think the problem with 0.4.x releases is &amp;quot;what have we done that provides incremental benefit to 0.4 that's as reliable as the features in 0.4&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  You: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  danx danx0r: I remember why I didn't do it before: this is a C++ hack&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Neas Bade: 0.4 was very solid for what it supported&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Sakai openlifegrid: well what would be your targets for a 0.4.x?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Sakai openlifegrid: over a 0.5?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Neas Bade: danx0r how can I help on the physics debug front?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Wright Juran: yeah true, if we did 0.4.X releases they really would be peacemeal 0.5 releases rather than mantiance releases on 0,4&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Sakai openlifegrid: ie. stable ODE etc =0.4.x then 0.5 inv assets grid?&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Neas Bade: let's not worry about releases per say over the next month and just push on hard on the grid and physics stability fronts&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  You: yes, I think we agreed not to invest too heavily in branching in svn&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Wright Juran: agreed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Neas Bade: sakai, I don't think you could back port what we have really&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Sakai openlifegrid: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Neas Bade: face, it, I'm the one that beat everyone up a lot to get 0.4 out the door :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  danx danx0r: neas - issue is this means we are forking ODE&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Neas Bade: so if I see everyone getting complacient, I'll start beating up again :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Sakai openlifegrid: ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Wright Juran: I think most people still run from svn version anyway so releases aren't so much a issue just yet, and we have the nightly builds&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  danx danx0r: since we need to change ODE's exception handling logic&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Neas Bade: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Sakai openlifegrid: true we only use ur svn;s&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  danx danx0r: I'm OK with that, I think it's enevitable whichever engine is used&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Neas Bade: well, do you think that is more or less sensible than digging on bullet?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  danx danx0r: just means have to merge if we want new ODE versions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Wright Juran: how far is Bullet from being up to ODE level ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  danx danx0r: neas -- I think it's sensible to get ODE stable, then move to bullet after 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Wright Juran: ah ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  danx danx0r: Wright -- it needs quite a bit of work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think its even close&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: bullet is very unstable&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  danx danx0r: and we need to detangle some things from the ODE plugin&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Neas Bade: ok, so probably we'll want to create a sepereate opensim-ode repo&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  danx danx0r: I've also seen bullet eat up ALOT of cpu&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Sakai openlifegrid shudders&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  danx danx0r: and ODE so far has seemed surprisingly light on CPU from what I've heard&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Neas Bade: ok, fair enough&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Sakai openlifegrid: I could do some comparisons if you like&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Neas Bade considers danx0r the physics master&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  danx danx0r: I agree long-term bullet looks good, but it's new -- almost no docs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  danx danx0r: and despite our issues, I suspect ODE is more stable due to maturity&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Sakai openlifegrid: (physical)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Wright Juran: are we still going with c# bullet or as I saw danx suggest before, a wrapper on c/c++ Bullet?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  danx danx0r: and BTW there is still active ODE developers -- note they moved from 0.8 to 0.9 in a few months&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Neas Bade: ok, good to knwo&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  danx danx0r: and finally, it's simply the case that I'm very familiar with ODE and not with Bullet&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Neas Bade: so presumably we'd start with 0.9, and modify the exception handling?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  danx danx0r: and so far new physics coders have not stepped up to fulltime involvement&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  danx danx0r: tho gerard is doing excellent work on meshing prims&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Wright Juran: yeah so sticking with ODE seems the best (as you are doing most of the work, think we should stick with whatever you think)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  danx danx0r: neas - yes, since ODE is now in opensim-libs, I feel comfy hacking on it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Neas Bade: ok, sounds good&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Tleiades Hax has confidence in danx0r's work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  danx danx0r: only thing is when it gets hacked, we have to update binaries in opensim/bin&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  danx danx0r: agreed then. I may be quiet for a bit, stressful workday&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Neas Bade: I'll probably bug you a bit more on IRC about getting up to speed on physics so I can help there&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  danx danx0r: neas -- great, later this aft will be better&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  danx danx0r: boss is right here, wondering why I'm complaining he blocks UDP ports&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  danx danx0r: btw corporate firewalls -- opensim shuld be better than LL&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Neas Bade: yep, probably tomorrow actually, as I have municipal wireless meeting in RL after this&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  danx danx0r: we should have TCP connect, check for UDP/ports&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  danx danx0r: like video streamers do&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Wright Juran: tell him that opensim is a great robot simulator enviorment (or will be)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  danx danx0r: maybe a TCP backstop?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Neas Bade: 4 SL meetings and 1 RL meeting in one day makes for little real work :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  danx danx0r: well it does help me with physics, which I use on the job&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  danx danx0r: but it's a tentative argument at best&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  danx danx0r: any comments from you net wizards on TCP/firewalls?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  You: I think we are limited by the viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Neas Bade: danx0r I think that we'll get a bunch of that as the Linden environment evolves&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Sakai openlifegrid: we haven't run into any issues with the opensim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Neas Bade: yeh, it's view issues right now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  You: I think all opensim code uses tcp&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  danx danx0r: d'oh of course it's a client-side issue&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  danx danx0r: 'nother reason for our own client...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: from all the Linden talk that I've heard, the viewer will be able to opperate in TCP mode in a years time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  You: though I have been thinking that the current inter region protocol is in efficient&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Wright Juran: yeah, custom client ++. Think sooner or later someone will start work on one (even if we don't)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Sakai openlifegrid: I've opnly seen small hacks on the LL Client&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Neas Bade: I've always been -- on custom client, as I think we gain a lot from compatibility :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  You: ++ on sean's comment&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  You: we live on the ll viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Neas Bade: at least until we're a bit further on the back end implementation&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Wright Juran: Tleiades, I think all our inter-X protocols are inefficient, thats what I mean by thinking we need to do major work on the protocols&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Neas Bade: that would be a good ML discussion&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Wright Juran: yeah but there are a lot of things that the LL viewer is no right for, a lot of things don't need all the bloat in it for example&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: silly flying people&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: hey tedd&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: ah, it's tedd&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: hey tedd&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Sakai openlifegrid: is hipihi based on the LL client?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: ted&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: carefull man&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: hwo is the script engine coming?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: your gonna crash the server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Wright Juran: so while yes I don't think we should stop being compatiable with the SL viewer, I do think having a custom client that uses the same protocol would be good&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: just leave it tedd&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Tedd Maa: just checking ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: not during meetings please&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Neas Bade: yeh, we had one crash earlier, so trying to not upset things too much :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Tedd Maa: server crashes when you move object?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Tedd Maa: hmm... I didn't know that :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: Tedd, sometimes.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: ode collisons&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Wright Juran: yeah Tedd, just get on with your excersises, if you come to gym class, you have to work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: hehehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Tedd Maa: ok, so I admit it, I'm the master SL griefer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: so, Tedd, how goes the script engine work?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: Ref: 333Mbyte, 67% CPU, 13 avatars&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Sakai openlifegrid: ouch&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: nice charles&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: sakai, remember, there is like 0 optimization yet&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: 67% seems high&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Charles Krinkeb: I suspect the 67% has more to do with locks then anything else.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Sakai openlifegrid: yes it dows&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Sakai openlifegrid: does&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Tedd Maa: well, it kinda stopped last week again ... temporarily. The good news is that I'm able to participate on IRC and write some code now and then&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Nahona Nakamori: mmm... about scripting... somebody heavy in lsl scripting already thinked to attempt to make a prims rezzer for LL grid using xml export from opensim? could be fun to can use opensim in sandbox for offline building...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Tedd Maa: as compared to a few weeks/a month ago when I only had time to do some scetch-book planning&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Sakai openlifegrid: true&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Charles Krinkeb: Nahona: Mantis feature request would be best for this, I believe.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Sakai openlifegrid: I know someone I can ask&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: does anyone know how I can get mantis to send me email on changes to anything, like it says it is doing?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: but isn't&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Tedd Maa: Current status is: I have implemented TCP server/client. I am designing a binary protocol and have sort of started implementing what I call the &amp;quot;Packet factory&amp;quot; (the class that makes the binary packets)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  lmmz say, nice&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Tedd Maa: I have created a separate stand-alone for script engine called script server and moved (copied) ScriptEngine to it.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Neas Bade: cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Wright Juran: Neas, it used to send updates if a issue was assigned to you, but don't think it has done that for months now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Tedd Maa: But because ScriptEngine needs scene and the comm is not operational yet it will not compile&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Neas Bade: any best guess on when it might go into tree?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Tedd Maa: in fact there are a lot of things that will not compile&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Tedd Maa: its at least 2-3 weeks depending on my spare time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Neas Bade: Wright: that's sort of problematic&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Tedd Maa: OpenSim has first priority on my spare time activites&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Neas Bade: cfk, any chance you can beat up openmv folks on that front?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Neas Bade: cool :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Charles Krinkeb: Huh? What front, sorry&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Neas Bade: mantis not sending email&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: I have started talking to Babbage, he seems interested in the new Script Engine approach&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Charles Krinkeb: Sure. CPrior is my contact, I will see what I can do&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Neas Bade: nifty&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: he also says we should not attempt implementing microthreading&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Tedd Maa: and I have been thinking a lot about it and I agree ... there are so many problems that we should not start it, it is just dead wrong from a design perspecitve&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: Tedd.. I have a question, are you using interpreted code or CIL?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  danx0r say, is my av still there? battery died&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Neas Bade: that's definitely progress&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Wright Juran: haven't they implemented microthreading in their mono implementation?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Charles Krinkeb: Cprior-gram sent re Mantis-non-mail.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tedd Maa: right now I am using C# for everything, I was using CIL on the LSL ByteCode&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  You: well... two things&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tedd Maa: If I can speak on a purely personal level.. I think we'll find that LL will not implement C# ...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  You: 1) won't injecting thread.sleep and threadpools be just as good as microthreading?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Neas Bade: right, I think we'll still need the LSL implementation&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  You: and .. what about security, CAS doesn't work on mono&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Neas Bade: I think there was confusion over them adding Mono&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Neas Bade: vs. C#&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Charles Krinkeb: I might have to boogie, but will do the chat log onto the wiki later.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Sakai openlifegrid: Ciao Charles&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  You: bye cfk&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: Tedd, presumably the new script engine doesn't preclude using LSL like the current model?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  lmmz say, cya&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Wright Juran: yeah I'm going to have to go too, will stay logged in , but not really here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: later cfk&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: Answers: 1) Then we can not move running scripts between servers or pack them into inventory. BUT, with new ScriptServer we can at least have script moved between regions... then next problem is that you can only have a few hundred threads per operating system&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: or, per computer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Charles Krinkeb: 14 avs, 68% CPU, 340Mbyte&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  Tedd Maa: Security is a big problem... it is THE reason why I think we will not see C# and Mono in SL for a long time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  danx0r say, why is it so hard to sandbox mono code?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  danx0r say, isn't that the whole point of a managed bytecode?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tedd Maa: The technical side with microthreading can be solved with a lot of work, although its one of those &amp;quot;its possible in theory but nobody would ever be so mad as to actually ytry it&amp;quot; implementations&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  You: danx0r it gets jitted&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  You: but what about mint?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tedd Maa: It would be easier to implement a virtual machine with a minimal OS that can run Mono and run scripts inside it instead with 1 thread per OS&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  danx0r say, so tedd -- you have a thread for every script now?  Doesn't LL do some sort of smart sleep() injection&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tedd Maa: *1 thread per script&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  danx0r say, ahh, frakkin JIT&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  danx0r say, well it must be hard, because Guido punted on it in Python, and he doesn't even use JIT&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  danx0r say, he just pulled the module and said you're all on your own, I absolve myself of any and all liability for security problems&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tedd Maa: one can in theory microthread Mono, and it might be that LL already has done that ... but the security aspect of it is just impossible&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  danx0r say, 1 thread per script is not scalable, ne?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  danx0r say, there's microthreads for python sorta, but I'm talking about trusted execution&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Tedd Maa: no, 1 script per thread won't work... operating systems have a big overhead for each thread&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  danx0r say, I guess these issues intersect&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Sakai openlifegrid: it's kill a bit of hardware&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  danx0r say, I remember something from LL about smart yield() injection&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Tedd Maa: I'm thinking of looking into JavaScript&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: I wonder how many mono threads you can have on linux before things get wonky&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  danx0r say, which is a form of microthreading, morally speaking&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Neas Bade: tedd, do you have a good test case to test practical limits?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Tedd Maa: Babbage tested that, a few hundred on Linux and close to a hundred on Win&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Tedd Maa: but Windows NT has something called &amp;quot;fibres&amp;quot;, but I think maybe the app has to support it somehow&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  You: threads have almost the same overhead as processes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Neas Bade: not on linux&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Tedd Maa: I've been looking at yield, but I'm not sure if we should go down that path at all&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  danx0r say, yield() seems like the right thing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danx0r say, I did something on Python where I just inserted a yield after every line of code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danx0r say, wasn't scaled up, but it could have been I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danx0r say, the idea is to insert a yield anywhere you have a CPU capture&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Neas Bade: yield actually causes some interesting issues with the os schedulars from my previous experience&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danx0r say, it's part of the theory of continuations&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  danx0r say, neas  -- it doesn't have to be an OS yield&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Neas Bade: anyway, I've got to run to this wireless meeting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Neas Bade: see you all later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Neas Bade: thanks for so many people showing u&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Neas Bade: up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  danx0r say, sorry I need to be more specific.  Yield() in python is a python thing, it returns control to the VM&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Sakai openlifegrid: Ciao Neas thanx&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  lmmz say, cya!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Tedd Maa: well, IF Linux can support say 500 threads ... this means we can have 500 scripts with loops in them. or we could have 499 scripts with loops and 10.000 scripts without loops&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  danx0r say, antont: that sucks -- wonder why&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Tedd Maa: if you see my point&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Neas Bade: well, that might be a fine place to start&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  danx0r say, so mono doesn't have a microthreading capability or python-like yield() next() ??&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Neas Bade: its 500x better than where we are now :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Tedd Maa: and with remote script server we can cluster multiple script servers to serve one region, meaning we can without any big problem run 10k's of scripts&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  danx0r say, if so that's too bad.  I guess python is strictly runtime interpreted so it's easier&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Tedd Maa: mono has yield(), but there are problems ...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Neas Bade: and 20x slower&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  sdague say, �ACTION goes poof�&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Tedd Maa: 01 41 43 54 49 4F 4E 20 73 61 79 73 20 73 6F 6D .ACTION says som&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
65 74 68 69 6E 67 20 6F 6E 20 49 52 43 01 00    ething on IRC..&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Tedd Maa: wow&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Tedd Maa: what happened there? :P&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Sakai openlifegrid: Mono microthreading only works with the subset of CIL &amp;gt; assembler opcodes that the LSL to CIL compiler emits&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  You: tedd.. wouldn't threadpooling work?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Tedd Maa: point is that there are a lot of small obstacles to overcome to implement Mono microthreading, some are of those that can be overcome, while others are not&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Blue Mouse: couple questions about other topics???&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Tedd Maa: &amp;quot;open up everything, allow anyone to run any .Net app on my computer. Now try to restrict the application.&amp;quot; &amp;lt;- its just the wrong way to go&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: whats your questions blue?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Blue Mouse: what needs to be done to make animations work?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Tedd Maa: threadpooling can work to some degree now that we have script server as stand alone, but when its integrated into OpenSim its very dangerous&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  You: why not have it as a standalone server?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Sakai openlifegrid: well that would def be a good point from a hardware pool side&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Tedd Maa: it will be, but threadpool works as &amp;quot;if you are kind enough to lend me back my thread so I can continue execution&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Gareth say, ooh, Wright Plaza is back up?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  lmmz say, Blue: the last thing I heard was that we need someone to make opensource versions of the LL animations? Is that wrong?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Tedd Maa: that is not so cool :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: yes gareth it was only down for about 1 minute&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Gareth say, i picked the wrong minute&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  You: which is where emitting thread.slepp(0) comes into play&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Blue Mouse: there were a bunch of animations packaged with avimator&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Gareth say, heh&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: ah thats not so hard&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Gareth say, i'll hop on&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  You: similar to the yield()&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  lmmz say, Blue: someone was looking into the &amp;quot;sit&amp;quot; today.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Blue Mouse: can't remember what the license was...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Blue Mouse: sit would be a good starting point&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Sakai openlifegrid: yeah i've got afew bucket fulls of animations too&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: chillken was working on sit&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  You: BSD license is important&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  lmmz say, I recall reading in backscroll on #opensim-dev that sit was being looked into.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: yea lmmz it was chi11ken&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Sakai openlifegrid: hehe irc delat&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Sakai openlifegrid: delay&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  lmmz say, I dont know if the animations are part of the client or are downloaded from LL.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: in initial implementation of script engine we will have thread based execution of scripts. It is not a 1:1 ratio between thread and script. If the script is not working then no thread is assigned to it.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: they are an asset&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: i beleive&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: so if you have 10.000 scripts waiting for an event then no threads are in use.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: not in client&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Blue Mouse: asset yes, but i thought they were executed on the client&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  lmmz say, the client contains an xml file with keys to LL animations, but I imagine we dont want to use LL's animations. :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Blue Mouse: haven't looked into it too deeply thought&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Blue Mouse: are the animations on the client? can we just send the right keys?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Blue Mouse: isn't that how walk works now?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: no&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: its a animation&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: an asset&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  lmmz say, I dont think they're on the client unless youve downloaded em from LL grid.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: animations are not in the client&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Gareth Nelson shouts: where abouts are you all?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Nebadon Izumi shouts: upstairs in the building Gareth&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  lmmz say, I've seen some custom animations play locally in OpenSim, but they dont play inworld, yet.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  You shout: upstairs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Gareth Nelson: this looks like a crazy cult meeting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  You: one more thing to put on the list :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Gareth Nelson: it's like smith in the matrix, but ruth&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  lmmz say, hopefully, chillken (?) will make som eprogress on it, today. :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Blue Mouse: correct... there are three animations in opensim right now... hard coded case statement for walk, fly and something else&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Blue Mouse: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  lmmz say, walk, fly and gym class?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Blue Mouse: something like stop flying but i can't remember&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: yea in the Data folder&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: there is an xml file&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: that defines the animations&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: and their asset UUID&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  lmmz say, Blue, chi11ken is probably the one to work with on animations.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Blue Mouse: will do&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Gareth Nelson: are people seeing my shape changes?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  You: great .. I'd love to see more animations&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  You: dsaf&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  You: great .. I'd love to see more animations&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Sakai openlifegrid: a busty woman?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  lmmz say, Gareth, yes. Nice headlights.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: rofl&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i got a screenshot&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: thats going on the wiki&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Gareth Nelson: my sexy av?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Sakai openlifegrid: u can currently accept animations direct from avimator?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Gareth Nelson: amongst you mere mortal ruths&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Gareth Nelson: why are animations hardcoded?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: yea one problem is animations in your inventory&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: only you can see them&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt animate to world&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Blue Mouse: i can put animations in my library (from avimator)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Blue Mouse: i can even play them locally&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Blue Mouse: can't play them in world though&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: yea only works locally&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  lmmz say, Sakai, I think so, yes. But without an asset system, they would not stay in inventory. And they only play locally.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  You: assets isn't implemented fully and completely&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Sakai openlifegrid: lol - so true&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: yea that should be done 1st&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: before doing to much with animations&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Sakai openlifegrid: I think I'll contact ch11ken then I have a ton he can have straight up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  You: first the infrastructure for assets and inventory needs to be set up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  lmmz say, Sakai, nice.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Sakai openlifegrid: my borther has made 100's for SL&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: but you should talk with him&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: as assets is not far off&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: few weeks&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Sakai openlifegrid: well that's exciting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  lmmz say, I suppose we get to decide how assets are persisted between grids, after that. :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Blue Mouse: speaking of assets... any idea when i can put textures in a prim? (looking to build a projector for biz meetings)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Gareth Nelson: the viewer fetches assets over HTTP now - does anyone know how to provide them?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Tedd Maa: ok, I'll be on IRC .. need to do some more work :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  lmmz say, Cya, tedd!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Tedd Maa: you all have a nice workout&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Sakai openlifegrid: yes persistent between grids would be impressive but could really dig the bandwidth&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Sakai openlifegrid: Gareth going for hot nurse?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: well, I have been thinking about writing a client side asset and inventory storage engine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: that way, the inventory and assets could follow the user between grids&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Sakai openlifegrid: but&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  lmmz say, I Gotta run! Great meeting! The IRC bridge is the shiz!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Sakai openlifegrid: how would you get around duplicate asset entries?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  You: I wouldn't and I wouldn't care, as long as they have the same I'd :-)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Sakai openlifegrid: hehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Stefan Andersson: I'd suggest we look into URI instead of LLUUID for resources&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Gareth Nelson: i now pwn all you ruths!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Gareth Nelson: so..... HTTP textures at the very least works direct to viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Gareth Nelson: anyone know the details on that?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Gareth Nelson: and can the sim FORCE the viewer to take them?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Sakai openlifegrid: well that would be aboon&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  You: Stefan .. that is the obvious choice.. but it won't fit with the viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  You: but ...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  You: Stefan .. that is the obvious choice.. but it won't fit with the viewer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  You: I have been thinking&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: since the asset server will be rest&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Stefan Andersson: No, but rather than rewriting a whole client-side asset system, I'd say the effort would be better spent trying to hax URI&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: and lsl supports http&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: we could implement some extensions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Sakai openlifegrid: this may be easier&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: which could be accessed using lsl&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: url's for assets really is the obvious choice&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: we know the internet is a scalable storage device :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  Sakai openlifegrid: most certainly...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Sakai openlifegrid: could you possiblly translate a uuid to a url and pass it through&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Sakai openlifegrid: ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Stefan Andersson: I'm pretty sure it would be possible to create a asset guid-to-uri conversion scheme.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  You: now if only we could get some people who understood grid computing to look at simulator code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  You: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  You: and the mapping could be tweaked by lsl using a rest interface&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Testc User: there are existing uuid uri schemes (well i know one)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Stefan Andersson: Also, you have this thing with the assets going thru the simulator, which is authenticated&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  You: I'm not too hot on the concept of &amp;quot;authenticated users&amp;quot; for the final release&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Stefan Andersson: If every object had a 'namespace' uri attached to it, you'd just attech the asset guid to that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Sakai openlifegrid: rfc4122&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Sakai openlifegrid: (uuid to uri)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Gareth Nelson: The concept of authenticated users is a must Tleiades: i am hot on the idea of authenticating users or allowing guests&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Gareth Nelson: i'm VERY hot on guests&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  You: I think the HTTP approach is better&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Gareth Nelson: i'm also hotter than all of you!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  You: lols&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Gareth Nelson: Tleiades: were you referring to authenticating users for asset downloading?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Gareth Nelson: or for login and authentication against a DB for standalone mode?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  You: yes, and accessing regions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Blue Mouse: if the client grabs the asset using a URL and HTTP then authentication could bypass the simulator altogether&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  You: anonymous access is important I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Gareth say, heh, you can't see it but my avatar there is the sexiest one&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Blue Mouse: that could be good (simulator doesn't have to proxy client credentials)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  lbsa71 say, Well, if we wanted distributed assets, we could do them quite easy today, I guess;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Blue Mouse: and bad (what if you aren't allowed to get an asset you need)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Gareth Nelson: authentication for assets should be done using either CAPs direct to viewer or proxied via the sim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  You: I worry about the asset server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  You: I don't think a single central asset server is going to cut it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Nahona Nakamori: are you sure Gareth?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Nahona Nakamori: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Gareth Nelson: question - why not do it the way it's being proposed on the SL wiki for the AW Groupies?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  lbsa71 say, If all users had an 'home root url' then all assets could be funneled to that.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Gareth Nelson: in fact, are any other groupies here?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Stefan Andersson: Ok, gotta go.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  You: I gave up on the AWG&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Stefan Andersson: Cheers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Gareth Nelson: ok, Nahona has a mildly better face....&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Gareth Nelson: Tleiades: the AWG is getting too beuracratic for my liking&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Sakai openlifegrid: i would agree on the single asset server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Nahona Nakamori: Nahona uploaded her personal realistic skin *lol*&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  You: yeah .. should get coding on the rest client&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Gareth Nelson: but some good ideas have been generated&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Gareth Nelson: i'll discuss the details on IRC rather than here (laggy as a laggy lagfest)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  You: yes.. I just think that most of the talk was too high level, and of very little practical use&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Sakai openlifegrid: I have to say thank you to everyone for your warm welcome&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Sakai openlifegrid: I must sleep&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  You: and opensim is very much about pratical approaches&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Gareth Nelson: but basically the agent domain stores all an agent's belongings, region domain stores all the rez'ed objects&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Gareth Nelson: Tleiades: agile :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Gareth Nelson: and inventory can come from an aggreator&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Nahona Nakamori: night Sakai&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  You: nite&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Sakai openlifegrid: nite&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Gareth Nelson: at login the user gets a big list of inventory sources, every asset is a link to where the asset can be downloaded&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  You: Gareth .. we have to live with the viewer .. as it is today&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  You: but I think cap's can be used to distribute load&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  Gareth Nelson: hmm yeah - not an option to alter anything viewer side in opensim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  Gareth Nelson: the sim can still act as a proxy and do most of the new architecture though&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  You: yes.. that is my thinking&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  You: my thinking is like this&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Gareth Nelson: brb - keep talking&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Gareth Nelson: and stop staring at my breasts Nahona ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  You: the viewer is directed to the url of the assets&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Rookiie Roux: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Nahona Nakamori: arf&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Rookiie Roux: gareth&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  You: and is basically told to look at 127.0.0.1&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: where we have a client side component, transfer the asset&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Blue Mouse: umm... how about just running a sim on every client that represents &amp;quot;home&amp;quot; territory&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Blue Mouse: then proxy other requests through that sim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: if the asset isn't found at the clientside asset server, the client side asset server goes to the network at dl it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Nahona Nakamori: not my fault Gareth if all ruth breasts are not so much hot *lol*&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Tedd say, I'm kinda glad animations haven't been implemented yet or you'd be having an orgie right about now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Tedd say, but hey, words can be just as exciting, right? ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  You: does anybody have the full log of the meeting?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: IRC does&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Tedd say, I came late, but I do log&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: we can remove all the nonsense&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: hang on&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll hook it up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  You: I lost mine at the crash&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  You: Neb... will you post the log on the wiki?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Nahona Nakamori: rofl tedd, yeah sure and in my viewer i read (Mature) at the Menu bar, so NO PROBLEM lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-23T20:08:13Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: Added log for meeting on october 23rd.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 18:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 11:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 14:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 20:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 02:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Agenda for 2007-10-23 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Please and anything you'd like to discuss)&lt;br /&gt;
# Physics Testing&lt;br /&gt;
# Library Reorganization&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Previous Agenda Items ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Handling bugs and code contributions reported in mantis&lt;br /&gt;
# Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
# Comms protocol(s)&lt;br /&gt;
# Maillist server, down, again&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Logs ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-23]] Note! the start of the log, was lost due to a crash&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-16</id>
		<title>Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-16"/>
				<updated>2007-10-16T20:10:56Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[10:52]  Neas Bade: hey Tleiades&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  You: brb&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  nebadonb izumi: thats wierd daedius&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Neas Bade: hey ckrinke&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Charles Krinkeb: Hello all&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Daedius Moskvitch: I'll try to get a more detailed log for a bug later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Neas Bade: do we want to go upstairs for the meeting? Give people a chance to experience physics by wandering up the stairs?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Daedius Moskvitch: Hehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Charles Krinkeb: Coitainly&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Neas Bade: hey all come joing up here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  nebadonb izumi: nice&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Charles Krinkeb: Sorry about the lack chairs.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: well, we still don't have sitting working yet do we?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  nebadonb izumi: yea the chair's are being delivered next week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  nebadonb izumi: :D&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Charles Krinkeb: no. That was a sideways comment.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: hehehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Daedius Moskvitch: ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: backordered eh?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  nebadonb izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Charles Krinkeb: But, hey, the flags wave.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  You: back&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Charles Krinkeb: neas. One of our thoughts was to build out from the island towards a corner with both a welcome area with prims explaining OpenSim and a place for sim owners to describe their sims.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Neas Bade: come up stairs, it's pretty nice up here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Charles Krinkeb: Darok: Come up the stairs, please.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Daedius Moskvitch: I like the idea of making this a hub of information =)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Charles Krinkeb: He may be chatting with DanXor on #opensim-dev&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, Tedd needs some help being able to log in&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Neas Bade: can you help him with that?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  You: I like this place, kind of cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: I tried. The only two choices are resetting home location or creating a new user with &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; as a home location.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  You: I like this place, kind of cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Charles Krinkeb: The libopenjpeg-libsl is throwing off an exception every 5 seconds, am I am holding my breath about the physics right now worrying over the console on another screen.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  nebadonb izumi: thats not physics related&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  You: the sim can run pretty stable with that exception&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  nebadonb izumi: someone probably tried to look at the map&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  You: I see that quite a lot on my dev machine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Charles Krinkeb: It appears to be a glibc_2.4 vs glibs_2.3 issue which may be related to the ode not found issue on some other servers.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  You: I never really understood why LL decided to use j2k&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Charles Krinkeb: Daedius: Even though we are just avatars in here, I feel like I am meeting you and creating a sense of community.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Daedius Moskvitch: Oh yes, I completely agree Charles =)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  You: Tedd... great to see you here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Daedius Moskvitch: Its very nice to finally meet some of you all here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  You: that is one of the magical things about SL&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: where is my SL inventory?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  You: lol ...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Charles Krinkeb: Hey. Tedd is here. Great.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: *n00b PSYKE*&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  You: easy .. I'm working on that :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: it worked creating a new user&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Charles Krinkeb: Just to set a tone for the meeting, I think one of our key issues in the weeks to come is going to be balancing finishing things partly done versus adding new features.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: Tedd, I read your wiki entry on scripting for the architecture group&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: interesting reading&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tedd Maa: I need to make another version of it, a few things thats missing and a few things people misunderstood&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  You: I think it is important that we talk about the mailing list&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tedd Maa: thats what happens when you write document and watch exciting serial killer on TV at the same time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  You: it is pretty unstable, and it is the only reliable lasting communication we have&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Charles Krinkeb: To put it all in perspective: Even though this place looks very advanced, it is prone to crashing with recent changes and is just barely hanging together.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: run it in Debug mode so we know what line that crashed and what brought us there ... debug crash error messages are very useful&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: release compiles are not so much&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: Tleiades have you had mail not got through?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  You: most of this week the mailing list was dead, atleast for me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: there was a hang up for a couple of days, but that all seemed to flush&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  nebadonb izumi: yea i didnt see many mails this week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: but why is mailinglist difficult now?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: should we consider google?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  Neas Bade: I don't think people are posting to the list that much&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  Charles Krinkeb: We should encourage more posting to the list as one-line ideas are tough to express.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  You: no, and an unreliable list makes it even more unlikely that people will use it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  You: but IRC isn't good for everything&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Neas Bade: right, I want to know if there is some issue that happened other than the delay last week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tedd Maa: lately some people has been a bit busy, my self included, so the general ml/commit has gone down a bit... from experience this is just a relatively short period&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  You: it is the second time, I have had delays in the flow&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: well, adam did fix the dns blacklisting for the opensimulator.org box&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: which means we can move mail over to there instead of berlios&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: if people believe that is still an issue&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tedd Maa: dns blacklisting/mail server I have some experience with&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: I didn't do it before when we setup the box because it was in a relay black list, which meant lots of people wouldn't get the email&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: but that is better now&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  You: Well, the important thing is that the list works, I think that from now on, I will shoot of a test mail every day&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  nebadonb izumi: hello everyone&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  You: so, if it doesn't show up, you'll know it is missing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  You: hello nebadonb&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Charles Krinkeb: hello, Mw&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Neas Bade: tleiades is this the Nwc.XmlRpc post, or is there one after that?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  You: the Nwc.XmlRpc post, got stuck in the flow&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Neas Bade: it came through fine for me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Wright Juran: hi&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  You: a few hours ago, I recevided a couple of mails from the list, but I knew from the web-page on berlios that they were there&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Charles Krinkeb: Hi, Chill. Welcome.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  chill ken: hello&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Neas Bade: it looks like the hotmail -&amp;gt; berlios handoff saw some delay&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: but it's hard to figure out which side muffed that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: my email from yesterday got through in about 15 minutes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  You: ok.. I'll try an switch to gmail, maybe that will make tings go better&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Tedd Maa: Looks like a gym club in here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: Inventory -&amp;gt; Create -&amp;gt; Body :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, if this is still a problem in a week, I'd suggest we move the mailing lists to the opensimulator.org box&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  You: while I agree with Charles that we need to focus on fixing bug, I also think that we need to push forward on adding more functionality&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Neas Bade: that will let us control grey listing and spam measures there, and hopefully debug any other issues that happen&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  You: Ok.. I'll setup a gmail account&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Charles Krinkeb: neas: Are you setting the agenda?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: so, what's our top bugs list?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: I didn't think so, but I can if no one else wants to :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  nebadonb izumi: Well i thik its vital that Grid mode be brought inline with Standalone&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  nebadonb izumi: let the gap widen too much more could cause even more bugs down the line&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Neas Bade: nebadonb, agree, but that is a larger scale issue&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Neas Bade: hard to call that a single bug :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Neas Bade: so what are the discreet things we need to get there?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  You: I'm quite a good ways along with inventory and assets&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Neas Bade: Tleiades: great!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  You: those are two major differences&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  nebadonb izumi: yea thats the biggest gap right now i think that will go along way Tleides&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  nebadonb izumi: well one Grid mode bug&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  nebadonb izumi: is unstable region crossings&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  nebadonb izumi: and also if a Region or Sim goes offline in an unfriendly fashinon, it adversly effects the neighboring sim/regions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  You: and problems logging into a sim, if the neighbors are down&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  nebadonb izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Charles Krinkeb: neas: I think the remoting error issue is pretty high. I put the ones I thought were the top few (at least the ones I worry about the most) on the Office_Hours page.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, great, let me bring that up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: I'm sort of designing a binary remote procedure call protocol for script engine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  nebadonb izumi: yea i think overall that is the biggest Grid mode bug at the moment&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: not sure what RPC things are needed to rhe rest, but ...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  You: we need to talk about comms protocols&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Charles Krinkeb: I also was unable to update the grid from r2060 to r2090 as the GridServer locked up twice when run (no exception, but the process had to be killed [twice])&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: *needed for the rest&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Neas Bade: so on the grid crossing issues it seems like we've got at least 2 bugs to dig into&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  nebadonb izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Neas Bade: 1) gracefully handling the downing of adjacent regions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  nebadonb izumi: i think thats top priority&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  You: and some serious latency issues in the protocol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Neas Bade: which means figuring out a sane way of invalidating the regionhandles I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  nebadonb izumi: yea if a sim goes offline gracefully its not an issue&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes. The regionHandles are the issue in the database. Invalidating their use would help immensenly&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  nebadonb izumi: but if it crashes its big trouble&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: 2) a more generic &amp;quot;figure out what is borking the crossing&amp;quot; issue&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  You: I have some code, almost ready for that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: which probably requires some debug tracing put into place&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  You: charles got me sidetracked, on the inventory asset thing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: tleiades, great! (again)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  nebadonb izumi: oh and ALso neas&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  nebadonb izumi: in Windows&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: in grid mode sims running Windows&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: there is no border crossing what so ever&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: it only works in Linux at this point&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: Linux to Linux&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade: pshaw, who needs windows anyway ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade ducks&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: and variation of throwing a windows server in the mix it doenst work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: LOL&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Daedius Moskvitch: =)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade: do we have bug numbers for these bugs?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Neas Bade: i.e. have they been reported yet?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Charles Krinkeb: GridServer has a method to check for live sims called &amp;quot;CheckSims&amp;quot; that is unused. Perhaps we should enable it before crossing or throwing a remoting exception?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  nebadonb izumi: I beleive there are Mantis #'s off the top fo my head im not sure what they are&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes, they are all in Mantis.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  You: charles.. that method is dirt old, and must be completely rewritten&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  You: hence my mail on the list regarding xmlrpc&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: can someone find them and give them to me? I think I'll create a Top 10 bugs list on the wiki, so we can get people focussed on some of the big bugs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  You: and my item on the agenda regarding comms protocols&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#449 and #461 are pertinent.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: I need to get mantis to start sending me email on new bugs, I can't figure out why it won't do that... :(&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#493 deals with the new grid server stuff not working.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Neas Bade: MW, do you want to weigh in on protocols?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  You: today we use a mixture of rest and xmlrpc and a tad of binary .net remoting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: per IRC, I think MW is tied up at at the moent&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  You: I would suggest that we move towards rest&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: Tleiades +1 on that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  You: and that the message format be XML, *not* LLSD&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Neas Bade: XML over JSON?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Neas Bade: agreeing that LLSD isn't what we want here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: hmm .. JSON is a definate maybe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Tedd Maa: how much traffic is there?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: XML is just so darn easy to convert to objects in .NET&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: XML is just so darn easy to convert to objects in .NET&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Neas Bade: xml is fine as well&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, I don't think you'll get any resistance on moving some of the coms protocols to REST&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Tedd Maa: what is the amount of communication?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  You: I think it is important that we are prepared to see server components like grid, asset and inventory implemented in something else than mono&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade punts to Tleiades on Tedd's question&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: Tedd.. well need a lot of comms to get all the funtionality in place&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: as I assume there is a good specific instance you've already got in mind for this&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: groups, profiles&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Tedd Maa: we need a high volume binary RPC for scripting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: right, and we'll probably also need that for physics if we decide to remote that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: the first place I'll use this is for grid server, and maintaining a list of live sims/regions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: next I'll use it for assets&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: then inventory&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Charles Krinkeb: Question: Architecturally, are then any perceived issues of concurrent execution in our user and grid server code when we have 20 users logging in at the same moment with our comms protocols ideas?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Neas Bade: which isn't a 100hz sort of operation like scripting and physics need to be&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  Charles Krinkeb: Hello Chris. Welcome&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: actually, ckrinke, it would be good to see how your box running this is doing right now, as we've got ODE running and a reasonable amount of folks here (maybe time for another crash-a-thon)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  You: no, I think the physics and scripting needs a faster protocol, compared to what I am doing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: yeh, definitely agreed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Chris Down: Hello Charles&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: I consider physics and scripting the exceptions here vs. the rule&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Tedd Maa: the library will be simple enough, using interfaces on each side ...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Tedd Maa: just thinking it might be good to use a single protocol all over?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Charles Krinkeb: neas: top says 50% of the cpu and 211meg of memory used for mono. This is region is running on the server where osgrid, svn and most everything else is running on.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  You: why couldn't we use the same?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: if we move to a binary protocol for our user &amp;lt;-&amp;gt; grid &amp;lt;-&amp;gt; asset services we're going to have to gut it again down the road if we want to be able to be compatible with the agent / region domain model that is coming from Linden.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Tedd Maa: Charles; does the box have HyperThreading or dualcore or something?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: if we start using REST in that space now, it will be an easier transition&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  You: but why not use HTTP for everything?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Charles Krinkeb: I doubt it. It is an AMI running on EC2 (Amazons Elastic Computing Cloud) and is a virtual machine.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Tedd Maa: HTTP is only well suited for humans (just like plain XML and HTML), not well suited for computers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Neas Bade: Tleiades for something like scripting where you really will need closer to 10ms turn around, http is going to be an issue I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  You: have you guys done any measurements on the difference between binary tcp and an HTPP keep alive connection?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Tedd Maa: scripting requires high speed, low overhead, etc&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  nebadonb izumi: its a 1.6ghz Processor with ike 2 gig of ram&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  nebadonb izumi: or something&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  You: http keep alive?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  nebadonb izumi: One EC2 Compute Unit provides the equivalent CPU capacity of a 1.0-1.2 GHz 2007 Opteron or 2007 Xeon processor. This is also the equivalent to an early-2006 1.7 GHz Xeon processor referenced in our original documentation. See Measuring Compute Resources for a complete description of an EC2 Compute Unit.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  You: well, it is just a suggestion&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Tedd Maa: Imagine script server running 10.000 scripts... The overhead for all those requests between server and region with HTTP REST would be something like 10-100 times more traffic and ditto CPU cycles to decode the traffic&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Neas Bade: honestly, I think your real overhead isn't even the http, but the xml parsing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  nebadonb izumi: according to Amazon Website its 1 Virtual Core&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: it can always be revisited later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  nebadonb izumi: 1.7 GB memory 1 EC2 Compute Unit (1 virtual core with 1 EC2 Compute Unit) 160 GB instance storage (150 GB plus 10 GB root partition) 32-bit platform I/O Performance: Moderate&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: it seems that both Tedd and Tleiades are making progress in their domains with sane approaches. We can always go back later and look to see if one solution works better for the other once we've got more working code. :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Tedd Maa: yeah, my point was simply that the binary rpc for scripting has to work 100% and will be very efficient ... but if arguments like compatibility comes into the picture then REST is probably better&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Neas Bade: yep&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Tedd Maa: when LL opens their grid we need to be compatible, so that is the direction we need to go in&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  You: I'd like to do some measurments&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Tedd Maa: I'm hoping to get Babbage onboard on the remote script engine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: that would be nifty :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: Tleiades agreed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: though we'll need to have more bits working first to do that, I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  Charles Krinkeb: What would it take to be able to edit a prim directly and expect the script editor to come up? That would expedite script testing.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Neas Bade: Ok, I'm going to have to run quite soon. Can I get a volunteer or two help me on sorting out the Top 10 Bugs and getting them up on the wiki (and mailed to the list)?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  You: well... grid mode inventory and assets&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Neas Bade: also has anyone had a chance to look at the roadmap: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Charles Krinkeb: I'll take care of that.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, how close is that code to being ready for the tree?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: assets are very close&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Charles Krinkeb: neas. shall I post the log also or is Tl doing that this week?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Darok Kaminski: I have to go, bye&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: bye Darok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  nebadonb izumi: bye Darok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: Also, based on MW's comment on IRC, can we move this meeting an hour earlier?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: byr Darok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  nebadonb izumi: or have 2 meetings a week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Neas Bade: as that would make it easier for MW to attend&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  You: I won't have any issues by moving this one hour back&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  nebadonb izumi: for differnt hemispheres&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Daedius Moskvitch: I am all for an hour back =)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  nebadonb izumi: yea anythings good for me&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Neas Bade: great&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: I'll change that on the wiki&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, you also have the todo to get IRC briding working for this region by next week :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Daedius Moskvitch: w00h00! =)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  Charles Krinkeb: neas. I need this to be a configuration option or I loose the ability to update this region as I update all the others.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  Charles Krinkeb: We can leave it frozen in time if you wish, revision speaking.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Neas Bade: ok, I'll commit to making this something you can put into the .ini by the end of the week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Neas Bade: beat me up if i haven't done it by friday&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  You: the code is pretty easy, it is all in there, it just needs to be dusted off, and some config file gymnastics&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Tedd Maa: my tummy hurts... I ate too much tacos&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  nebadonb izumi: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Charles Krinkeb: No way will I beat you up. You do as good a job of it as I do beating myself up.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: mmmmm tacos&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Tedd Maa: I need tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Charles Krinkeb: Kudos to nebabon for building this beautiful corporate park.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Daedius Moskvitch: Indeed!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: Yeh, I am quite impressed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Charles Krinkeb: Too bad the water doesnt run &amp;lt;heh&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  You: yes, lets hope it survives moving to a new inventory/asset storage&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  nebadonb izumi: thanks guys&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Charles Krinkeb: Not if the gridserver doesnt run. And it doesnt run now.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  nebadonb izumi: no big deal if it doesnt&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  nebadonb izumi: i can rebuild it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Neas Bade: we can do some hand migration on that front&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  nebadonb izumi: this was only about 4 hours of work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Neas Bade: that's still more than would be polite to loose&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Charles Krinkeb: Our hope is to add a welcome center for newcomers and a place to allow sim owners to describe their sims.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Neas Bade: ok, I'm running off. Thanks for everyone coming. I'm really happy we are getting such attendance already :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Neas Bade: and it's really nice to see the environment evolve around us&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  nebadonb izumi: yea good stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  You: hmmm... it should be possible to write some code, which will export from the SQLite databases, and import it into the gridmode stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Charles Krinkeb: See you later all. Thanks for cominig.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Daedius Moskvitch: Take care =)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  You: bye&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  nebadonb izumi: yea it shjoudlnt be hard&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: although i noticed your using Binary for the UUID in mysqql&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: while Sqlite is using varchar&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: just needs some converting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: wont just be a simple export/import&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  You: I'm worried about the size of the database, that will cut the size down by 56 per asset&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: its not a huge deal&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Chris Down: Bye everyone. I hope to be able to get more involved soon.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: all we would have to do is save-xml&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: load-xml&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Tedd Maa: perl regex should be able to do that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: and i retexture everything&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  nebadonb izumi: i assume we will still be storing the assets the same way&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  nebadonb izumi: or will we actually begin using the assets folder?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  You: the assets folder will only be used by the asset server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  nebadonb izumi: yea so initially the assets will still be stored on the sims in the same fashion it is now/&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  nebadonb izumi: ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  nebadonb izumi: in the .yap file&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  nebadonb izumi: ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  You: no&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  nebadonb izumi: yea so just transfering the asset data in the database wont work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  You: the assets will be stored using mysql on the asset server&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  nebadonb izumi: is that how it is now?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  You: and all the sims will use http/rest to retrieve the assets&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  nebadonb izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  nebadonb izumi: right now its being stored in the .YAP fie right?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  nebadonb izumi: or am i wrong about that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  You: well, yes and no&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  You: we have two implementations&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  You: depending on the setting in OpenSim.ini&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  nebadonb izumi: ah ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  nebadonb izumi: what setting uses the .yap?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Tedd Maa: there are plans to move physics engine to remote?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  You: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim.ini&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  Tedd Maa: if so, should we look at some kind of tree structure?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  You: asset_database = db4o&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  You: makes it use the yap file&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  You: anything else will make the assets go to SQLite&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  Tedd Maa: example; level 1 frontend server operating on low resolution, level 2 medium resolution, level 3 high resolution&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  nebadonb izumi: ok cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  nebadonb izumi: thats good&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:09]  You: but that will change soon&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:09]  nebadonb izumi: that makes it easier&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:09]  nebadonb izumi: yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:09]  nebadonb izumi: cant wait&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:09]  Tedd Maa: level 1; 1 server, level 2: 2 servers, level 3: 5 servers &amp;lt;- support many more users than a single server could&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:09]  You: ok, capturing the log now, and saving it to the wiki&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-16</id>
		<title>Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-16"/>
				<updated>2007-10-16T20:05:16Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: Created log of the meeting&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[10:52]  Neas Bade: hey Tleiades&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  You: brb&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  nebadonb izumi: thats wierd daedius&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Neas Bade: hey ckrinke&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Charles Krinkeb: Hello all&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Daedius Moskvitch: I'll try to get a more detailed log for a bug later&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Neas Bade: do we want to go upstairs for the meeting? Give people a chance to experience physics by wandering up the stairs?&lt;br /&gt;
[10:53]  Daedius Moskvitch: Hehe&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Charles Krinkeb: Coitainly&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Neas Bade: hey all come joing up here&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  nebadonb izumi: nice&lt;br /&gt;
[10:54]  Charles Krinkeb: Sorry about the lack chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: well, we still don't have sitting working yet do we?&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  nebadonb izumi: yea the chair's are being delivered next week&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  nebadonb izumi: :D&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Charles Krinkeb: no. That was a sideways comment.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: hehehe&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Daedius Moskvitch: ;)&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Neas Bade: backordered eh?&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  nebadonb izumi: lol&lt;br /&gt;
[10:55]  Charles Krinkeb: But, hey, the flags wave.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  You: back&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Charles Krinkeb: neas. One of our thoughts was to build out from the island towards a corner with both a welcome area with prims explaining OpenSim and a place for sim owners to describe their sims.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Neas Bade: come up stairs, it's pretty nice up here&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Charles Krinkeb: Darok: Come up the stairs, please.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Daedius Moskvitch: I like the idea of making this a hub of information =)&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Charles Krinkeb: He may be chatting with DanXor on #opensim-dev&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, Tedd needs some help being able to log in&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Neas Bade: can you help him with that?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  You: I like this place, kind of cool&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: I tried. The only two choices are resetting home location or creating a new user with &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; as a home location.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  You: I like this place, kind of cool&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Charles Krinkeb: The libopenjpeg-libsl is throwing off an exception every 5 seconds, am I am holding my breath about the physics right now worrying over the console on another screen.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  nebadonb izumi: thats not physics related&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  You: the sim can run pretty stable with that exception&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  nebadonb izumi: someone probably tried to look at the map&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  You: I see that quite a lot on my dev machine&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Charles Krinkeb: It appears to be a glibc_2.4 vs glibs_2.3 issue which may be related to the ode not found issue on some other servers.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  You: I never really understood why LL decided to use j2k&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Charles Krinkeb: Daedius: Even though we are just avatars in here, I feel like I am meeting you and creating a sense of community.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Daedius Moskvitch: Oh yes, I completely agree Charles =)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  You: Tedd... great to see you here&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Daedius Moskvitch: Its very nice to finally meet some of you all here&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  You: that is one of the magical things about SL&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: where is my SL inventory?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  You: lol ...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Charles Krinkeb: Hey. Tedd is here. Great.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: *n00b PSYKE*&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: ;)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  You: easy .. I'm working on that :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Tedd Maa: it worked creating a new user&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Charles Krinkeb: Just to set a tone for the meeting, I think one of our key issues in the weeks to come is going to be balancing finishing things partly done versus adding new features.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: Tedd, I read your wiki entry on scripting for the architecture group&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: interesting reading&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tedd Maa: I need to make another version of it, a few things thats missing and a few things people misunderstood&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  You: I think it is important that we talk about the mailing list&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tedd Maa: thats what happens when you write document and watch exciting serial killer on TV at the same time&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  You: it is pretty unstable, and it is the only reliable lasting communication we have&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Charles Krinkeb: To put it all in perspective: Even though this place looks very advanced, it is prone to crashing with recent changes and is just barely hanging together.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: run it in Debug mode so we know what line that crashed and what brought us there ... debug crash error messages are very useful&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: release compiles are not so much&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: Tleiades have you had mail not got through?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  You: most of this week the mailing list was dead, atleast for me&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: there was a hang up for a couple of days, but that all seemed to flush&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  nebadonb izumi: yea i didnt see many mails this week&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: but why is mailinglist difficult now?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tedd Maa: should we consider google?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  Neas Bade: I don't think people are posting to the list that much&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  Charles Krinkeb: We should encourage more posting to the list as one-line ideas are tough to express.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  You: no, and an unreliable list makes it even more unlikely that people will use it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  You: but IRC isn't good for everything&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Neas Bade: right, I want to know if there is some issue that happened other than the delay last week&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tedd Maa: lately some people has been a bit busy, my self included, so the general ml/commit has gone down a bit... from experience this is just a relatively short period&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  You: it is the second time, I have had delays in the flow&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: well, adam did fix the dns blacklisting for the opensimulator.org box&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: which means we can move mail over to there instead of berlios&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: if people believe that is still an issue&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tedd Maa: dns blacklisting/mail server I have some experience with&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: I didn't do it before when we setup the box because it was in a relay black list, which meant lots of people wouldn't get the email&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: but that is better now&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  You: Well, the important thing is that the list works, I think that from now on, I will shoot of a test mail every day&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  nebadonb izumi: hello everyone&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  You: so, if it doesn't show up, you'll know it is missing&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  You: hello nebadonb&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Charles Krinkeb: hello, Mw&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Neas Bade: tleiades is this the Nwc.XmlRpc post, or is there one after that?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  You: the Nwc.XmlRpc post, got stuck in the flow&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Neas Bade: it came through fine for me&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Wright Juran: hi&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  You: a few hours ago, I recevided a couple of mails from the list, but I knew from the web-page on berlios that they were there&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Charles Krinkeb: Hi, Chill. Welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  chill ken: hello&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Neas Bade: it looks like the hotmail -&amp;gt; berlios handoff saw some delay&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: but it's hard to figure out which side muffed that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: my email from yesterday got through in about 15 minutes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  You: ok.. I'll try an switch to gmail, maybe that will make tings go better&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Tedd Maa: Looks like a gym club in here&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: Inventory -&amp;gt; Create -&amp;gt; Body :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, if this is still a problem in a week, I'd suggest we move the mailing lists to the opensimulator.org box&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  You: while I agree with Charles that we need to focus on fixing bug, I also think that we need to push forward on adding more functionality&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Neas Bade: that will let us control grey listing and spam measures there, and hopefully debug any other issues that happen&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  You: Ok.. I'll setup a gmail account&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Charles Krinkeb: neas: Are you setting the agenda?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: so, what's our top bugs list?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: I didn't think so, but I can if no one else wants to :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  nebadonb izumi: Well i thik its vital that Grid mode be brought inline with Standalone&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  nebadonb izumi: let the gap widen too much more could cause even more bugs down the line&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Neas Bade: nebadonb, agree, but that is a larger scale issue&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Neas Bade: hard to call that a single bug :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Neas Bade: so what are the discreet things we need to get there?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  You: I'm quite a good ways along with inventory and assets&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Neas Bade: Tleiades: great!&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  You: those are two major differences&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  nebadonb izumi: yea thats the biggest gap right now i think that will go along way Tleides&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  nebadonb izumi: well one Grid mode bug&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  nebadonb izumi: is unstable region crossings&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  nebadonb izumi: and also if a Region or Sim goes offline in an unfriendly fashinon, it adversly effects the neighboring sim/regions&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  You: and problems logging into a sim, if the neighbors are down&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  nebadonb izumi: yea&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Charles Krinkeb: neas: I think the remoting error issue is pretty high. I put the ones I thought were the top few (at least the ones I worry about the most) on the Office_Hours page.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, great, let me bring that up&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: I'm sort of designing a binary remote procedure call protocol for script engine&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  nebadonb izumi: yea i think overall that is the biggest Grid mode bug at the moment&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: not sure what RPC things are needed to rhe rest, but ...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  You: we need to talk about comms protocols&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Charles Krinkeb: I also was unable to update the grid from r2060 to r2090 as the GridServer locked up twice when run (no exception, but the process had to be killed [twice])&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tedd Maa: *needed for the rest&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Neas Bade: so on the grid crossing issues it seems like we've got at least 2 bugs to dig into&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  nebadonb izumi: yea&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Neas Bade: 1) gracefully handling the downing of adjacent regions&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  nebadonb izumi: i think thats top priority&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  You: and some serious latency issues in the protocol&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Neas Bade: which means figuring out a sane way of invalidating the regionhandles I think&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  nebadonb izumi: yea if a sim goes offline gracefully its not an issue&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes. The regionHandles are the issue in the database. Invalidating their use would help immensenly&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  nebadonb izumi: but if it crashes its big trouble&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: 2) a more generic &amp;quot;figure out what is borking the crossing&amp;quot; issue&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  You: I have some code, almost ready for that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: which probably requires some debug tracing put into place&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  You: charles got me sidetracked, on the inventory asset thing&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: tleiades, great! (again)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  nebadonb izumi: oh and ALso neas&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  nebadonb izumi: in Windows&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: in grid mode sims running Windows&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: there is no border crossing what so ever&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: it only works in Linux at this point&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: Linux to Linux&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade: pshaw, who needs windows anyway ;)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade ducks&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: and variation of throwing a windows server in the mix it doenst work&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  nebadonb izumi: LOL&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Daedius Moskvitch: =)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade: do we have bug numbers for these bugs?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Neas Bade: i.e. have they been reported yet?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Charles Krinkeb: GridServer has a method to check for live sims called &amp;quot;CheckSims&amp;quot; that is unused. Perhaps we should enable it before crossing or throwing a remoting exception?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  nebadonb izumi: I beleive there are Mantis #'s off the top fo my head im not sure what they are&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes, they are all in Mantis.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  You: charles.. that method is dirt old, and must be completely rewritten&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  You: hence my mail on the list regarding xmlrpc&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: can someone find them and give them to me? I think I'll create a Top 10 bugs list on the wiki, so we can get people focussed on some of the big bugs&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  You: and my item on the agenda regarding comms protocols&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#449 and #461 are pertinent.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: I need to get mantis to start sending me email on new bugs, I can't figure out why it won't do that... :(&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#493 deals with the new grid server stuff not working.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Neas Bade: MW, do you want to weigh in on protocols?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  You: today we use a mixture of rest and xmlrpc and a tad of binary .net remoting&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: per IRC, I think MW is tied up at at the moent&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  You: I would suggest that we move towards rest&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: Tleiades +1 on that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  You: and that the message format be XML, *not* LLSD&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Neas Bade: XML over JSON?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Neas Bade: agreeing that LLSD isn't what we want here&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: hmm .. JSON is a definate maybe&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Tedd Maa: how much traffic is there?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: XML is just so darn easy to convert to objects in .NET&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: XML is just so darn easy to convert to objects in .NET&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Neas Bade: xml is fine as well&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, I don't think you'll get any resistance on moving some of the coms protocols to REST&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Tedd Maa: what is the amount of communication?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  You: I think it is important that we are prepared to see server components like grid, asset and inventory implemented in something else than mono&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade punts to Tleiades on Tedd's question&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: Tedd.. well need a lot of comms to get all the funtionality in place&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: as I assume there is a good specific instance you've already got in mind for this&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  You: groups, profiles&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Tedd Maa: we need a high volume binary RPC for scripting&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: right, and we'll probably also need that for physics if we decide to remote that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: the first place I'll use this is for grid server, and maintaining a list of live sims/regions&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: next I'll use it for assets&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: then inventory&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Charles Krinkeb: Question: Architecturally, are then any perceived issues of concurrent execution in our user and grid server code when we have 20 users logging in at the same moment with our comms protocols ideas?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Neas Bade: which isn't a 100hz sort of operation like scripting and physics need to be&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  Charles Krinkeb: Hello Chris. Welcome&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: actually, ckrinke, it would be good to see how your box running this is doing right now, as we've got ODE running and a reasonable amount of folks here (maybe time for another crash-a-thon)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  You: no, I think the physics and scripting needs a faster protocol, compared to what I am doing&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: yeh, definitely agreed&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Chris Down: Hello Charles&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: I consider physics and scripting the exceptions here vs. the rule&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Tedd Maa: the library will be simple enough, using interfaces on each side ...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Tedd Maa: just thinking it might be good to use a single protocol all over?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Charles Krinkeb: neas: top says 50% of the cpu and 211meg of memory used for mono. This is region is running on the server where osgrid, svn and most everything else is running on.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  You: why couldn't we use the same?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: if we move to a binary protocol for our user &amp;lt;-&amp;gt; grid &amp;lt;-&amp;gt; asset services we're going to have to gut it again down the road if we want to be able to be compatible with the agent / region domain model that is coming from Linden.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Tedd Maa: Charles; does the box have HyperThreading or dualcore or something?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: if we start using REST in that space now, it will be an easier transition&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  You: but why not use HTTP for everything?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Charles Krinkeb: I doubt it. It is an AMI running on EC2 (Amazons Elastic Computing Cloud) and is a virtual machine.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Tedd Maa: HTTP is only well suited for humans (just like plain XML and HTML), not well suited for computers&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Neas Bade: Tleiades for something like scripting where you really will need closer to 10ms turn around, http is going to be an issue I think&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  You: have you guys done any measurements on the difference between binary tcp and an HTPP keep alive connection?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Tedd Maa: scripting requires high speed, low overhead, etc&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  nebadonb izumi: its a 1.6ghz Processor with ike 2 gig of ram&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  nebadonb izumi: or something&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  You: http keep alive?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  nebadonb izumi: One EC2 Compute Unit provides the equivalent CPU capacity of a 1.0-1.2 GHz 2007 Opteron or 2007 Xeon processor. This is also the equivalent to an early-2006 1.7 GHz Xeon processor referenced in our original documentation. See Measuring Compute Resources for a complete description of an EC2 Compute Unit.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  You: well, it is just a suggestion&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Tedd Maa: Imagine script server running 10.000 scripts... The overhead for all those requests between server and region with HTTP REST would be something like 10-100 times more traffic and ditto CPU cycles to decode the traffic&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Neas Bade: honestly, I think your real overhead isn't even the http, but the xml parsing&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  nebadonb izumi: according to Amazon Website its 1 Virtual Core&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: it can always be revisited later&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  nebadonb izumi: 1.7 GB memory 1 EC2 Compute Unit (1 virtual core with 1 EC2 Compute Unit) 160 GB instance storage (150 GB plus 10 GB root partition) 32-bit platform I/O Performance: Moderate&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: it seems that both Tedd and Tleiades are making progress in their domains with sane approaches. We can always go back later and look to see if one solution works better for the other once we've got more working code. :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Tedd Maa: yeah, my point was simply that the binary rpc for scripting has to work 100% and will be very efficient ... but if arguments like compatibility comes into the picture then REST is probably better&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  Neas Bade: yep&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Tedd Maa: when LL opens their grid we need to be compatible, so that is the direction we need to go in&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  You: I'd like to do some measurments&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Tedd Maa: I'm hoping to get Babbage onboard on the remote script engine&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: that would be nifty :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: Tleiades agreed&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: though we'll need to have more bits working first to do that, I think&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  Charles Krinkeb: What would it take to be able to edit a prim directly and expect the script editor to come up? That would expedite script testing.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Neas Bade: Ok, I'm going to have to run quite soon. Can I get a volunteer or two help me on sorting out the Top 10 Bugs and getting them up on the wiki (and mailed to the list)?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  You: well... grid mode inventory and assets&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Neas Bade: also has anyone had a chance to look at the roadmap: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Charles Krinkeb: I'll take care of that.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, how close is that code to being ready for the tree?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: assets are very close&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Charles Krinkeb: neas. shall I post the log also or is Tl doing that this week?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Darok Kaminski: I have to go, bye&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: bye Darok&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  nebadonb izumi: bye Darok&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: Also, based on MW's comment on IRC, can we move this meeting an hour earlier?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: byr Darok&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  nebadonb izumi: or have 2 meetings a week&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Neas Bade: as that would make it easier for MW to attend&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  You: I won't have any issues by moving this one hour back&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  nebadonb izumi: for differnt hemispheres&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Daedius Moskvitch: I am all for an hour back =)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  nebadonb izumi: yea anythings good for me&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Neas Bade: great&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: I'll change that on the wiki&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, you also have the todo to get IRC briding working for this region by next week :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Daedius Moskvitch: w00h00! =)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  Charles Krinkeb: neas. I need this to be a configuration option or I loose the ability to update this region as I update all the others.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  Charles Krinkeb: We can leave it frozen in time if you wish, revision speaking.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Neas Bade: ok, I'll commit to making this something you can put into the .ini by the end of the week&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Neas Bade: beat me up if i haven't done it by friday&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  You: the code is pretty easy, it is all in there, it just needs to be dusted off, and some config file gymnastics&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Tedd Maa: my tummy hurts... I ate too much tacos&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  nebadonb izumi: lol&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  Charles Krinkeb: No way will I beat you up. You do as good a job of it as I do beating myself up.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: mmmmm tacos&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Tedd Maa: I need tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Charles Krinkeb: Kudos to nebabon for building this beautiful corporate park.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Daedius Moskvitch: Indeed!&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: Yeh, I am quite impressed&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Charles Krinkeb: Too bad the water doesnt run &amp;lt;heh&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  You: yes, lets hope it survives moving to a new inventory/asset storage&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  nebadonb izumi: thanks guys&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Charles Krinkeb: Not if the gridserver doesnt run. And it doesnt run now.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  nebadonb izumi: no big deal if it doesnt&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  nebadonb izumi: i can rebuild it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Neas Bade: we can do some hand migration on that front&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  nebadonb izumi: this was only about 4 hours of work&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Neas Bade: that's still more than would be polite to loose&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Charles Krinkeb: Our hope is to add a welcome center for newcomers and a place to allow sim owners to describe their sims.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Neas Bade: ok, I'm running off. Thanks for everyone coming. I'm really happy we are getting such attendance already :)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Neas Bade: and it's really nice to see the environment evolve around us&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  nebadonb izumi: yea good stuff&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  You: hmmm... it should be possible to write some code, which will export from the SQLite databases, and import it into the gridmode stuff&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Charles Krinkeb: See you later all. Thanks for cominig.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  Daedius Moskvitch: Take care =)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  You: bye&lt;br /&gt;
[12:01]  nebadonb izumi: yea it shjoudlnt be hard&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: although i noticed your using Binary for the UUID in mysqql&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: while Sqlite is using varchar&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: just needs some converting&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  nebadonb izumi: wont just be a simple export/import&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  You: I'm worried about the size of the database, that will cut the size down by 56 per asset&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: yea&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: its not a huge deal&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Chris Down: Bye everyone. I hope to be able to get more involved soon.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: all we would have to do is save-xml&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: load-xml&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Tedd Maa: perl regex should be able to do that&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  nebadonb izumi: and i retexture everything&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  nebadonb izumi: i assume we will still be storing the assets the same way&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  nebadonb izumi: or will we actually begin using the assets folder?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  You: the assets folder will only be used by the asset server&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-16T20:04:19Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Handling bugs and code contributions reported in mantis&lt;br /&gt;
# Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
# Comms protocol(s)&lt;br /&gt;
# Maillist server, down, again&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-16T20:03:44Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: Updated log history&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Handling bugs and code contributions reported in mantis&lt;br /&gt;
# Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
# Comms protocol(s)&lt;br /&gt;
# Maillist server, down, again&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-16]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-16T06:09:19Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: Suggestion for agenda&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Handling bugs and code contributions reported in mantis&lt;br /&gt;
# Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
# Comms protocol(s)&lt;br /&gt;
# Maillist server, down, again&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-16T04:42:27Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot; on osgrid, which was called &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; until last Friday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Wright Plaza&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Handling bugs and code contributions reported in mantis&lt;br /&gt;
# Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
# Commns protocol(s)&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Cfk would like to suggest that we give some thought to the following bugs.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Remoting exceptions with adjacent non-running sims.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Prim unlinking.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling the script editor from the edit prim dialog box.&lt;br /&gt;
#) jpeg/ode dll and glibc-2.4 exceptions and stability.&lt;br /&gt;
#) GridServer.exe locks up in r2090 and works fine in r2060 on OSGrid.&lt;br /&gt;
#) Enabling avatar 'sit' on a prim.&lt;br /&gt;
#) More progress on avatar customization consistency. (Avatar changes when crossing region boundaries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration</id>
		<title>Configuration</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration"/>
				<updated>2007-10-13T09:49:11Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;It is recommended that you first get OpenSim running in standalone mode, before you attempt to connect it to a grid, either your own grid or a public grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator actually consists of four services, known as UGAS which stand for User, Grid, Asset &amp;amp; Simulator. They are started in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running in its default standalone mode has all the services self-contained, but they are very modest. This means any first/last/password works. It also means inventory is all local with no region or grid-wide connections.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as a local grid runs all four services on the same computer. Multiple sims can be run, across-region crossing including teleporting and a set of inventory items that are within this local grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as part of a public grid runs only OpenSim.exe and the other three services are running on a server common to many regions. This also means that understanding the needed UUID, X,Y location, server handshake passwords, master avatar first/last/password and a couple of other settings. These are not difficult, but do require a little care in setting up.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Command Line arguments passed to OpenSim.exe=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim.exe responds to various command line arguments. These include &amp;quot;-inifile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-configfile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-gridmode&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-physics&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-config&amp;quot; &amp;amp; &amp;quot;-noverbose&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When starting OpenSim in either Windows or Linux, one can add &amp;quot;-physics=OpenDynamicsEngine&amp;quot; to run the OpenDynamicsEngine instead of basicphysics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most users in standalone mode will not add any command line arguments. For local grid or public grid, the &amp;quot;-gridmode=true&amp;quot; is usually the only argument used. The rest are for more advanced configuration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=OpenSim configuration file=&lt;br /&gt;
The simulator configuration is managed using a file called [[OpenSim.ini]]. This file is used regardless if the sim is running in standalone mode or in grid mode. Detailed information on the options available for setttings in this file can be found [[OpenSim.ini|here]].&lt;br /&gt;
=Standalone mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you start OpenSim in standalone mode, it will ask you several question at the console. The first set of prompts that start with &amp;quot;NETWORK SERVERS INFO&amp;quot;, you can just hit return to accept the defaults if you will be running in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The prompts that start with &amp;quot;DEFAULT REGION CONFIG&amp;quot; are where you need to start paying attention. Some are self-explanatory. Here are explanations for the others:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Location. OpenSim regions can be placed anywhere on a 65536 by 65536 grid. In standalone mode, it is safe to leave these X and Y locations at their defaults.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Filename for local storage. Safe to leave at default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP address; This should always be 0.0.0.0&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP port for incoming UDP client connection. You can make this any port you want, but it is safe to leave at the default 9000.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* External host name. If you will only be attaching to your sim from a SecondLife client on the same machine, you can leave this at the default 127.0.0.1. If you will be wanting to connect to it from a client on another machine, this should be the IP address or hostname of the machine you are running this sim on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To connect to your new sim, start up secondlife with the following command line switches: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:9000/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This assumes you are running the secondlife client on the same box. If you are running it on a separate box, substitute the IP address of your sim machine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To create a user:&lt;br /&gt;
type &amp;quot;create user &amp;lt;first&amp;gt; &amp;lt;last&amp;gt; &amp;lt;password&amp;gt; &amp;lt;x_loc&amp;gt; &amp;lt;y_loc&amp;gt;&amp;quot; in the server console&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Grid mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You want to run your own grid. Great! Assuming that you already got your sim running in standalone mode, here is what you need to do:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Current builds of OpenSim grid mode are using mysql to store the grid information. You must have this installed and configured if you want to run your own grid. See [[mysql-config]] for more information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The servers should be started in a certain order. UGAS: UserServer, GridServer, AssetServer, Sim. These are all found in the bin directory. In windows, you can just double-click on the executables to start them. In linux, you will probably have to start them with mono. The executable names are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Start the UserServer. If you will be running the GridServer on the same box, hit enter to accept the defaults, until  it gives you the prompt &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenUser#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the main prompt for the user server. If you will be running the GridServer on another box, change the Default Grid Server URI as appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Start the GridServer. Again, you can hit return at all the prompts if you are running them all on the same machine. If not, change the URIs for the Asset Server and User server to point to where you are running them. You will finally get to the console prompt for the GridServer which looks like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenGrid#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Start the AssetServer. This is not used at the current time, so you don't need to start it. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenAsset#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. Start the InventoryServer. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenInventory#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. If you are running all of these servers on the same box, which would be the normal configuration. You should be ready to start up your sim. Since the OpenSim.exe starts up by default in standalone mode, you will need to give it a command line switch to tell it to use gridmode instead:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mono OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With any luck, everything will come up without too many errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. Go to the UserServer console, and type 'create user' to create a new avatar. It will prompt you for the name and password, and the X and Y of the sim that should be his home location. Use 1000 and 1000, or wherever you told your sim to live when you brought it up in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the console of any of these servers, you should be able to type 'help' to get a list of commands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should now be able to connect to your new grid with your secondlife client. You need to tell your client to point at the UserServer rather than direclty at the sim, though:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 secondlife -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:8002/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8002 is the default port for the UserServer, and that IP address should be changed to the server you are running the UserServer on, if they are not all on the same box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Happy OpenSimming!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Note: if you are using Windows Vista, remeber to start servers as Admin. If not it will prompt you an error in console like &amp;quot;Error - Access denied&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
''&lt;br /&gt;
=== Technical Addendum ===&lt;br /&gt;
For running multiple regions on the same box, you simply make multiple copies of the 'default.xml' file inside the /bin/regions/ directory. Name them anything you want (I name mine x.y.xml, where x znd y are the grid coords)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Open each xml file and edit the uuid (each must be unique, a generator can be found at  [http://www.famkruithof.net/uuid/uuidgen uuidgen webpage]), region name, x &amp;amp; y positions, datastore (if you are using the prim thing) and internal ip port. EACH OF THESE MUST BE UNIQUE!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once you have 2 or more xml files in the regions folder, you can run a SINGLE COPY of opensim.exe and it will boot all of your sims! If you come across any errors, there is, most likely, an error in the xml files.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Attaching your sim to someone else's grid=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To set up the simulation server (i.e., &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;OpenSim.exe&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;) to connect to an external grid, you should edit the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;OpenSim.ini&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; file in the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;bin&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; directory.  In that file, there is a &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;[Network]&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; section with URLs for the grid, user, and asset servers, as well as send and receive keys (for a basic level of security).  The addresses and send/receive keys will vary depending on the grid you are connecting to, and the grid operator should tell you what values to use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other file you may have to change is in your &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;bin/Regions&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; directory. This is where your individual region config files are. If you only have one region, it will by default be called &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;default.xml&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This can be edited with any text editor. The grid owner may tell you what X and Y location you can place your sim at (you can't have multiple sims at the smae location on the grid). If so, the fields you will need to change in this file are &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;sim_location_x&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; and &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;sim_location_y&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;.  And the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;external_host_name&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; should be set to the hostname or IP address of your simulation server (i.e., the machine that is running &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;OpenSim.exe&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A list of public grids that you can attach your sim to is at [[OpenSim: Grids]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Tips=&lt;br /&gt;
In Windows, to automate startup, you can create a file called StartGrid.BAT:&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PS! Check that you have sleep command installed, I'm unsure if all Windows versions have that.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This knowledgebase article describes how to add a batch file to startup of Windows (before logon).&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/ http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note that you have to start all applications and answer the configuration questions once before adding it to any startup.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
If you start the server before logon then there will be no window to close if you want to shut down the server, so you can create a &amp;quot;StopGrid.BAT&amp;quot; with:&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /F /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''(Do they have to be shut down in any particular order?)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you use Linux (did it quick and dirty)&lt;br /&gt;
install screen (apt-get install screen) and create a script called &amp;quot;runSim&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
 #! /bin/sh&lt;br /&gt;
 cd /opensim/bin&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m  mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 screen -d -m mono /opensim/bin/OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This allow me to ssh to my Sever start the Grid and log out. To stop the Grid I just use &amp;quot;killall mono&amp;quot;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/IRegionModule</id>
		<title>IRegionModule</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/IRegionModule"/>
				<updated>2007-10-11T16:12:14Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction ==&lt;br /&gt;
A key design principle of OpenSim is the heavy use of plug-ins. All the key components of OpenSim are designed to be replaceable or extensible at runtime.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Database engines can be replaced (currently OpenSim has full support for)&lt;br /&gt;
** SQLite&lt;br /&gt;
** MySQL (almost complete)&lt;br /&gt;
** db4o is partially implemented&lt;br /&gt;
** MS-SQL Server is in a template stage.&lt;br /&gt;
* Backend servers can be replaced by changing a url, currently there are servers for:&lt;br /&gt;
** User authentication&lt;br /&gt;
** Grid registration&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset storage&lt;br /&gt;
** Script execution&lt;br /&gt;
* Script languages can be replaced&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Region modules can be added''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Region modules are .net/mono dlls. During initialization of the simulator, the current directory (/bin) and the scriptengines (/ScriptEngines) directory are scanned for dlls, in an attempt to load region modules stored there.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Region modules execute within the heart of the simulator. Typically region modules register for a number of events, e.g. chat messages, user logins, texture transfers, and take what ever steps are appropriate for the purposes of the module.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Interface ==&lt;br /&gt;
All region modules must implement this interface:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 public interface IRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
 {&lt;br /&gt;
     void Initialise(Scene scene);&lt;br /&gt;
     void PostInitialise();&lt;br /&gt;
     void Close();&lt;br /&gt;
     string Name { get; }&lt;br /&gt;
     bool IsSharedModule { get; }&lt;br /&gt;
 }&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Description&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Initialize&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;This method is called immediately after the region module has been loaded by the sim. At this time the module is passed a reference to the scene contained within the sim. The region module should store this reference for later use. Care should be taken, not to depend on the scene and/or sim being fully loaded and running at this time.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;PostInitialize&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Once the sim is fully initialized and all region modules have been loaded, the sim will invoke PostInitialize on all loaded region modules. At this point the sim will be fully operational, and it should be safe to invoke any method on the scene.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Close&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;This method will be invoked when the sim is closing down.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;This is used to display a friendly name, in logs etc.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;IsSharedModule&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;'''''(needs to be doublechecked)'''''A sim server can house more than one region, this method should return true if the region module will operate on all regions&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How to write a new region module ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Walk through on Windows ===&lt;br /&gt;
On Windows, using Visual studio, this is what you need to do, to create a new region module:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#Create a new project&lt;br /&gt;
##File, New, Project&lt;br /&gt;
##Select &amp;quot;Visual C#&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Class Library&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Give the region module some good name, like: &amp;quot;MyRegionModule&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
#Reference the required OpenSim assemblies&lt;br /&gt;
##Right click on &amp;quot;References&amp;quot; and choose &amp;quot;Add Reference...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Choose the browse tab&lt;br /&gt;
##Navigate to the bin folder of OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
##Select &amp;quot;OpenSim.Framework.dll&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Click Ok&lt;br /&gt;
##Right click once more on &amp;quot;References&amp;quot; and choose &amp;quot;Add Reference...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Select &amp;quot;OpenSim.Region.Environment.dll&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Click Ok&lt;br /&gt;
#Change default class, to a meaningfull name&lt;br /&gt;
##Right click on &amp;quot;Class1.cs&amp;quot; and rename the file to &amp;quot;MyRegionModuleMain.cs&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now the code should look something like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 using System;&lt;br /&gt;
 using System.Collections.Generic;&lt;br /&gt;
 using System.Text;&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 namespace MyRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
 {&lt;br /&gt;
     public class MyRegionModuleMain&lt;br /&gt;
     {&lt;br /&gt;
     }&lt;br /&gt;
 }&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
delete the unwanted &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;using&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; lines:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 using System.Collections.Generic;&lt;br /&gt;
 using System.Text;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
now, the program should contain:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 using System;&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 namespace MyRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
 {&lt;br /&gt;
     public class MyRegionModuleMain&lt;br /&gt;
     {&lt;br /&gt;
     }&lt;br /&gt;
 }&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
add references to the main OpenSim modules:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 using OpenSim.Region.Environment.Interfaces;&lt;br /&gt;
 using OpenSim.Region.Environment.Scenes;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
specify that &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;MyRegionModuleMain&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; should inherit from the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;IRegionModule&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; interface:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 using System;&lt;br /&gt;
 using OpenSim.Region.Environment.Interfaces;&lt;br /&gt;
 using OpenSim.Region.Environment.Scenes;&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 namespace MyRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
 {&lt;br /&gt;
     public class MyRegionModuleMain : IRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
     {&lt;br /&gt;
     }&lt;br /&gt;
 }&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Right click on the &amp;quot;IRegionModule&amp;quot; name, and select &amp;quot;Implement interface&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Implement Interface&amp;quot;; this will add an empty implementation of the interface required for a region module. If you compile the module, and ensure that the resulting .dll file is stored in the /bin directory of OpenSim, the region module will be loaded and exected the next time you start the sim.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The close observer will have noticed that this region module will not do anything worthwhile; in fact it will cause OpenSim to log a warning about exceptions in a loaded module.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/IRegionModule</id>
		<title>IRegionModule</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/IRegionModule"/>
				<updated>2007-10-10T21:54:11Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Introduction */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction ==&lt;br /&gt;
A key design principle of OpenSim is the heavy use of plug-ins. All the key components of OpenSim are designed to be replaceable or extensible a runtime.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Database engines can be replaced (currently OpenSim has full support for)&lt;br /&gt;
** SQLite&lt;br /&gt;
** MySQL (almost complete)&lt;br /&gt;
** db4o is partially implemented&lt;br /&gt;
** MS-SQL Server is in a template stage.&lt;br /&gt;
* Backed servers can be replaced by changing a url, currently there are servers for:&lt;br /&gt;
** User authentication&lt;br /&gt;
** Grid registration&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset storage&lt;br /&gt;
** Script execution&lt;br /&gt;
* Scrip languages can be replaced&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Region modules can be added''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Region modules are .net/mono dlls. During initialization of the simulator, the current directory (/bin) and the scriptengines (/ScriptEngines) directory are scanned for dlls, in an attempt to load region modules stored there.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Region modules execute within the heart of the simulator. Typically region modules registers for a number of events, e.g. chat messages, user logins, texture transfers, and takes what ever steps are appropriate for the purposes of the module.&lt;br /&gt;
== Interface ==&lt;br /&gt;
All region modules must implement this interface&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    public interface IRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
    {&lt;br /&gt;
        void Initialise(Scene scene);&lt;br /&gt;
        void PostInitialise();&lt;br /&gt;
        void Close();&lt;br /&gt;
        string Name { get; }&lt;br /&gt;
        bool IsSharedModule { get; }&lt;br /&gt;
    }&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Description&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Initialize&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;This method is called immediately after the region module has been loaded by the sim. At this time the module is passed a reference to the scene contained within the sim. The region module should store this reference for later use. Care should be taken, not to depend on the scene and/or sim being fully loaded at running at this time.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;PosrInitialize&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Once the sim is fully initialized and all region modules has been loaded, the sim will invoke PostInitialize on all loaded region modules. At this point the sim will be fully operational, and it should be safe to invoke all methods on the scene.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Close&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;This method will be invoked, when the sim is closing down.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;This is used to display a friendly name, in logs etc.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;IsSharedModule&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;td&amp;gt;'''''(needs to be doublechecked)'''''A sim server can house more than one region, this method should return true if the region module will operate on all regions&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How to write a new region module ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Walk through on windows ===&lt;br /&gt;
On windows, using Visual studio, this is what you need to do, to create a new region module:&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#Create a new project&lt;br /&gt;
##File, New, Project&lt;br /&gt;
##Select &amp;quot;Visual C#&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Class Library&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Give the region module some good name, like: &amp;quot;MyRegionModule&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
#Reference the required OpenSim assemblies&lt;br /&gt;
##Right click on &amp;quot;References&amp;quot; and choose &amp;quot;Add Reference...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Choose the browse tab&lt;br /&gt;
##Navigate to the bin folder of OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
##Select &amp;quot;OpenSim.Framework.dll&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Click Ok&lt;br /&gt;
##Right click once more on &amp;quot;References&amp;quot; and choose &amp;quot;Add Reference...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Select &amp;quot;OpenSim.Region.Environment.dll&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
##Click Ok&lt;br /&gt;
#Change default class, to a meaningfull name&lt;br /&gt;
##Right click on &amp;quot;Class1.cs&amp;quot; and rename the file to &amp;quot;MyRegionModuleMain.cs&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now the code should look something like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
using System;&lt;br /&gt;
using System.Collections.Generic;&lt;br /&gt;
using System.Text;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
namespace MyRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
{&lt;br /&gt;
    public class MyRegionModuleMain&lt;br /&gt;
    {&lt;br /&gt;
    }&lt;br /&gt;
}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
delete the unwanted using lines:&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
using System.Collections.Generic;&lt;br /&gt;
using System.Text;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
now, the program should contain:&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
using System;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
namespace MyRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
{&lt;br /&gt;
    public class MyRegionModuleMain&lt;br /&gt;
    {&lt;br /&gt;
    }&lt;br /&gt;
}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
add references to the main OpenSim modules&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
using OpenSim.Region.Environment.Interfaces;&lt;br /&gt;
using OpenSim.Region.Environment.Scenes;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
specify that &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;MyRegionModuleMain&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; should inherit from the &amp;lt;tt&amp;gt;IRegionModule&amp;lt;/tt&amp;gt; interface&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
using System;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
namespace MyRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
{&lt;br /&gt;
    public class MyRegionModuleMain : IRegionModule&lt;br /&gt;
    {&lt;br /&gt;
    }&lt;br /&gt;
}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/code&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Right click on the &amp;quot;IRegionModule&amp;quot; name, and selelect &amp;quot;Implement interface&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Implement Interface&amp;quot;; this will add an empty implementation of the interface required for a region module. If you compile module, and ensure that the resulting .dll file is stored in the /bin directory of OpenSim, the region module will be loaded and exected the next time you start the sim.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The close observer will have noticed that the region module will not do anything, worth while, in fact it will cause OpenSim to log a warning about exceptions in a loaded. module.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/IRegionModule</id>
		<title>IRegionModule</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/IRegionModule"/>
				<updated>2007-10-10T20:19:34Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction ==&lt;br /&gt;
A key design principle of OpenSim is the heavy use of plug-ins. All the key components of OpenSim are designed to be replaceable or extensible a runtime.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Database engines can be replaced (currently OpenSim has full support for)&lt;br /&gt;
** SQLite&lt;br /&gt;
** MySQL (almost complete)&lt;br /&gt;
** db4o is partially implemented&lt;br /&gt;
** MS-SQL Server is in a template stage.&lt;br /&gt;
* Backed servers can be replaced by changing a url, currently there are servers for:&lt;br /&gt;
** User authentication&lt;br /&gt;
** Grid registration&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset storage&lt;br /&gt;
** Script execution&lt;br /&gt;
can be replaced, simply by pointing the sim to a new url.&lt;br /&gt;
* Scrip languages can be replaced&lt;br /&gt;
* '''Region modules''' can be added&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Development_Team</id>
		<title>Development Team</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Development_Team"/>
				<updated>2007-10-10T11:37:28Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* OpenSim Core Developers */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== OpenSim Core Developers ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(please add in as much info as you like for your name)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table border=&amp;quot;1&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;IRC Nick &amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;SL Avatar&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Time Zone&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;(UTC)&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Org&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Areas of Interest&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:MW|MW]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Michael Wright&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Wright Juran&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+0&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;everything&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:AdamZaius|AdamZaius]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Adam Frisby&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Adam Zaius&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+8&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;DeepThink Pty Ltd&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Terrain, Performance&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:MingChen|MingChen]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-6&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;DeepThink Pty Ltd&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:lbsa71|lbsa71]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Stefan Andersson&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;PierreJoseph Proudhon&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+1&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tribal Media AB&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt; 3D and Web Integration&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:SeanDague|sdague]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Sean Dague&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Neas Bade&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;IBM&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Database, Linux&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:babblefrog|babblefrog]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Brian McBee&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Dogen Coldstream&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-8&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Disorganized&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:Tedd|Tedd]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:danx0r|danx0r]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Dan Miller&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Albert Pascal&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-8&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;squiggle.com&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;PHEEZIKS; everything&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:dalien|dalien]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;ZeroPoint&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Guilderoy&amp;amp;nbsp;Dench&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Programming/Database&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tleiades&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tleiades&amp;amp;nbsp;Hax&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+2&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Grid servers/Database&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Additional Developers/Testers/Contributors ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;table border=&amp;quot;1&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;IRC Nick &amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Name&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;SL Avatar&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Time Zone&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;(UTC)&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Org&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;th&amp;gt;Areas of Interest&amp;lt;/th&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Gareth&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;BigFootAg&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:Darok|Darok]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Darok Kaminski&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+1&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Physics engines (especially BulletX)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Ldvoipeng&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;idoru&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;ckrinke&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Charles&amp;amp;nbsp;Krinke&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Charlesk Bing&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-7&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:Magi|Magi]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Andy Agnew&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Magi Merlin&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+10&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Spun Pty Ltd&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;3D Web Integration, Database stuff and playing with the odds and ends box.&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;john_&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;John&amp;amp;nbsp;Moyer&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;VAJohn&amp;amp;nbsp;GeekSquad or&amp;amp;nbsp;Matthew&amp;amp;nbsp;Kendal&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Best&amp;amp;nbsp;Buy/Geek&amp;amp;nbsp;Squad&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:ClarkZone|ClarkZone]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Troy Admin(@ClarkZone)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Troy Childs(Secondlife)\Troy Admin (ClarkZone)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Http://clarkzone.dyndns.org&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Tester and Grid Host&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:aiaustin|aiaustin]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Ai Austin&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Ai&amp;amp;nbsp;Austin&amp;amp;nbsp;(Second&amp;amp;nbsp;Life)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;Ai&amp;amp;nbsp;Beta&amp;amp;nbsp;(DeepGrid)&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;+0&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;AIAI,&amp;amp;nbsp;University&amp;amp;nbsp;of&amp;amp;nbsp;Edinburgh&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~ai/&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Windows Vista tests&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:balthazar|balthazar]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Trevor Brooks&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Balthazar Sin&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;None&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Terrains, testing and some small coding tasks&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;[[User:jimbo2120|jimbo2120]]&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Michael Osias&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Illuminous Beltran&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;-5&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;IBM&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;td&amp;gt;Grid, AI, Skynet, coding and testing&amp;lt;/td&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;/tr&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/table&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap</id>
		<title>Roadmap</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap"/>
				<updated>2007-10-10T11:00:48Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* 0.5 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The big massive to do list.  Will start to try to put up content in reasonable order here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.5 ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** Enable mysql for storing assets&lt;br /&gt;
** &amp;lt;strike&amp;gt;Enable mysql for inventory&amp;lt;/strike&amp;gt; '''done'''&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset Server, using a primitive asset format&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.6 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Future ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Uncategorized ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** Enable mysql database&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset Server&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
** User Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** grid mode scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** complete LSL functions&lt;br /&gt;
** Tedd's remote scripting rewrite&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Physics&lt;br /&gt;
** ODE Terrain Bug - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
** BulletX work&lt;br /&gt;
** Hollow Prims support (need to write for 20 prim types)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Repository cleanup&lt;br /&gt;
** mercurial mirror to let people easily branch - sdague&lt;br /&gt;
** opensim-libs - move libraries to external svn - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Canned Assets&lt;br /&gt;
** Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
** Bodies&lt;br /&gt;
** Prim Objects&lt;br /&gt;
** Animations&lt;br /&gt;
** Textures&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap</id>
		<title>Roadmap</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap"/>
				<updated>2007-10-10T10:59:52Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* 0.5 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The big massive to do list.  Will start to try to put up content in reasonable order here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.5 ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** Enable mysql for storing assets&lt;br /&gt;
** &amp;lt;strike&amp;gt;Enable mysql for inventory&amp;lt;/strike&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset Server, using a primitive asset format&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.6 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Future ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Uncategorized ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** Enable mysql database&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset Server&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
** User Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** grid mode scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** complete LSL functions&lt;br /&gt;
** Tedd's remote scripting rewrite&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Physics&lt;br /&gt;
** ODE Terrain Bug - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
** BulletX work&lt;br /&gt;
** Hollow Prims support (need to write for 20 prim types)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Repository cleanup&lt;br /&gt;
** mercurial mirror to let people easily branch - sdague&lt;br /&gt;
** opensim-libs - move libraries to external svn - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Canned Assets&lt;br /&gt;
** Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
** Bodies&lt;br /&gt;
** Prim Objects&lt;br /&gt;
** Animations&lt;br /&gt;
** Textures&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap</id>
		<title>Roadmap</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap"/>
				<updated>2007-10-10T10:56:38Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* 0.5 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The big massive to do list.  Will start to try to put up content in reasonable order here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.5 ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** Enable mysql for storing assets&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset Server, using a primitive asset format&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 0.6 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Future ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Uncategorized ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Database&lt;br /&gt;
** Enable mysql database&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Mode&lt;br /&gt;
** Asset Server&lt;br /&gt;
** Inventory Server&lt;br /&gt;
** User Server&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** grid mode scripting&lt;br /&gt;
** complete LSL functions&lt;br /&gt;
** Tedd's remote scripting rewrite&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Physics&lt;br /&gt;
** ODE Terrain Bug - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
** BulletX work&lt;br /&gt;
** Hollow Prims support (need to write for 20 prim types)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Repository cleanup&lt;br /&gt;
** mercurial mirror to let people easily branch - sdague&lt;br /&gt;
** opensim-libs - move libraries to external svn - danx0r&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Canned Assets&lt;br /&gt;
** Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
** Bodies&lt;br /&gt;
** Prim Objects&lt;br /&gt;
** Animations&lt;br /&gt;
** Textures&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-09</id>
		<title>Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-09"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T21:15:37Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[10:45]  Stefan Andersson: By the way; if anybody wants to explore the code, writing a simple 'module'&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Stefan Andersson: that logs all chat in a region to file would be a fun little project&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Dalien1 Talbot: indeed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Tleiades Hax: and usefull for the meetings as well&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Stefan Andersson: MW introduced the module architecture so that people could write things more or less stand-alone.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: shouldn't we better revive the IRC gateway module ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: that one was quite functional..&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Stefan Andersson: Personally, I'm surprised that we haven't had more people setting up custom sims and writing modules.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Stefan Andersson: Why not have both?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: true.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Stefan Andersson: Everybody seems to want to hax core funcs.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Tleiades Hax: the infrastructure for dynamically loading modules isn't in place yet&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Stefan Andersson: Which is fine; but I think the big breakthru comes the day people start pushing code from their own web sites.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Stefan Andersson: Tlei, that's why I want people to get cracking at it. ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Tleiades Hax: I think two things need to change, maybe three&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Tleiades Hax: we need a way do dynamically register plugins&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Tleiades Hax: we need to fill in the wiki page on modules&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Tleiades Hax: and as a possible last thing, but almost unrelated&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Stefan Andersson: That should be easy enough; a pick-up directory, or a part of the config.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Tleiades Hax: I think we should isolate the plugin pattern we use into an interface&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Tleiades Hax: I think both&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Stefan Andersson: Well, yes; the plug-ins should have a well-defined facade into the system&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Stefan Andersson: that should coincide with the script engine facade&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Tleiades Hax: scan a subdirectory at run time, and look in the config file&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Stefan Andersson: As I said, simple enough, I think.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Stefan Andersson: We already have dir-scanners and config readers..&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Tleiades Hax: yes, we have all the component parts&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Tleiades Hax: should be a piece of cake to do&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Stefan Andersson: Actually, we have so many of them they should be refactored into generic plug-in handlers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Tleiades Hax: true&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  Tleiades Hax: which is why I think we should define an IPlugin interface&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Stefan Andersson: Definitively&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Stefan Andersson: Actually, if we could get all our plug-ins into the same structure, so that the different plugin managers could just fetch a list of plug-ins implementing a certain type; that'd be like ace++&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Neas Bade: welcome all&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Neas Bade: we actually have a pretty reasonable turn out already&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Dalien1 Talbot: all of the plugins - like ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Stefan Andersson: So that the IPlugin should have something like IPlugin.Register( IRegisterPluginFacade facade )&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Dalien1 Talbot: ah something like meta-interface then ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Stefan Andersson: and IRegisterPluginFacade would have something like RegisterPlugin&amp;lt;TPlugin&amp;gt;( TPlugin instance )&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: man, it will be nice when we have chains and can sit :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Stefan Andersson: That would mean 'Register me as handling calls to interface TPlugin'&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Neas Bade: will someone volunteer to upload transcript of the office hours?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Stefan Andersson: Then any Plugin could ask IPluginFacade for GetHandler&amp;lt;TPlugin&amp;gt;()&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Tleiades Hax: if I don't crash, I can do it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: I'll be the backup.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Dalien1 Talbot: I'll also bounce it to the blog as well.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, you have logging turned on?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Stefan Andersson: Hm. GetHandler&amp;lt;TPlugin&amp;gt;( string name ) I guess&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: ok, cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: is neas==sean?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: got it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade is Sean Dague&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: here and in SL&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Michael Wright: seems like this is going to be everyone&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: sorry for showing up a little late, dalien / stefan, what did we I wonder into?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Stefan Andersson: Um, anybody up for implementing what I just said? :P&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: yes, I agree&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Tleiades Hax: hmm. where do I turn on logging?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Stefan Andersson: We were just discussing refining the plug-in handling.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Stefan Andersson: Ok, so, I'm off for a while....&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: stefan: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Tleiades Hax: k&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Charles Krinkeb: As the host, welcome to Sang. Which I believe to the most stable sim on osgrid. It is checked for functionality every morning, runs on the osgrid server and has not crashed once.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Neas Bade: tleides it is under preferences somewhere&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Michael Wright: really need to fix up the time progressing sometime (night comes a bit too suddenly)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Tleiades Hax: think of as being close to equator&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Neas Bade: Tleiades posted some suggested agenda on the wiki, which seems like as good a place to start as any. Though prior to that, are there other specific things people would like to talk about?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Neas Bade: MW: heh :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Neas Bade: one of the things I'd like to throw out there is starting to build a master todo list on the wiki, as I think that will help letting people know where they can contribute bits&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Tleiades Hax: yes, agreed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Neas Bade: man, everyone's quiet :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Dalien1 Talbot: i have crashed a couple of times :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Tleiades Hax: I think we should clean up the 0.5 list&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Tleiades Hax: make a free for all list of features they'd like&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Neas Bade: tleiades, I'd like to hear your thoughts on better approaches to the database layer as well&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tleiades Hax: and a list of features we plan for 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Michael Wright: yeah, a todo list is needed (and yeah its kind of the middle of getting my daughter to go to bed right now, hopefully in a bit I'll be able to talk more)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Neas Bade: MW: no worries&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Tleiades Hax: I like the list the libsl guys have&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Neas Bade: url?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Tleiades Hax: http://www.libsecondlife.org/wiki/Roadmap&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tleiades Hax: as for database layer, I think we should consider things in stages&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: Ok, I just started a Roadmap page on the wiki&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tleiades Hax: right now, focus should be on getting stuf to work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: I'll take notes into it in &amp;quot;Uncategorized&amp;quot; for now and refine from there&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Tleiades Hax: kind of brute force&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  Tleiades Hax: inventory is ok for mysql and sdague has sqlite well under control&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Michael Wright: the asset system is one area that so needs doing, I have been going to do it for weeks now, but as some of you know, for the last few weeks I've been very busy and just haven't had time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Tleiades Hax: I have written some unit tests for that, and verified both sqlite and mysql&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Charles Krinkeb: Is it a correct assumption that inventory database stuff will not affect the sql users and regions table in grid mode?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Neas Bade: tleides, well, I think you correctly pointed out that some of the use of DataSets ends up being problematic for larger data (as we load it all into memory)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tleiades Hax: I think mysql will be used for the larger grids, and sqlite for the standalone ones&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: I'm assuming you are going to take a slightly different approach on the mysql stuff for that?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Tleiades Hax: that is my gut feeling, so no big worries I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: if you come up with a better pattern, I'll adapt the sqlite code to match that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Tleiades Hax: yes, not quite as elegant as your code, but it won't flood server memory&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: yeh, that's fine :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: performance counts for something ;)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: we can probably pull some patterns out of it and make it both pretty and performant&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Neas Bade: I'll admit to being pretty ado.net ignorant when I got started on that code, so learning as I go&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Tleiades Hax: IInventoryData implementation in MySql, is a sample, on how I plan to approach to MySQL&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Neas Bade: great&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Neas Bade: also, those unit tests you have, can you check them into the build tree somewhere sensible?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Neas Bade: it would be really great to start getting tests in place for key function&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Tleiades Hax: well, problem with those are, what about programmers who aren't used to working with unit tests&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Charles Krinkeb: What sort of tests, neas?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Neas Bade: we beat them with sticks until they like it :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  danxor danx0r: heh&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Tleiades Hax: I have written some unitttests, for inventory data&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danxor danx0r: looks like yoga class&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Neas Bade: :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps tests could go on the wiki with simple step-by-step?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  nebadonb izumi: heheh yea&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Tleiades Hax: next will be unit tests for assets&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Michael Wright: yeah doing unit tests are always good.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danxor danx0r: hi sorry I'm late -- technical glitches&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Neas Bade: danxor and I were actually talking about testing earlier, and I was thinking about starting to create a functional test suite by using libsl to create bots and walk them through the environment. It would help with isolating some of the region crossing bugs I think.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: indeed. plus, with loadtesting as well...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Charles Krinkeb: Hmm. 9 avatars, 8 green dots.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Tleiades Hax: especially for the database plugins, it is the only way I can think of, which improves the probability of all the plugins working as expected&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Tleiades Hax: hey, that is a great idea, automated testing of sim functionality&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Tleiades Hax: I love that concept :-)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  danxor danx0r: unit tests, ftw&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Dalien1 Talbot: charles: self does not create the green dot :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Neas Bade: tleiades: agreed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  danxor danx0r: so would this be something we could all use on a single machine in stand-alone?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  nebadonb izumi: you dont see yourself charles&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: danxor, yes, I think so&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  danxor danx0r: minimap is too small to see individual dots&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  danxor danx0r: ahh zoom. nv&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Tleiades Hax: danxor.. zoom works&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  danxor danx0r: mind&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: at least that would be the goal&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  danxor danx0r: it's great to finally see what you all look like :-)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Tleiades Hax: lol&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Michael Wright: I think charles is right about the map, I see my yellow dot for myself then 7 green dots (but there is 8 other people here) one person isn't getting a dot&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Dalien1 Talbot: s/like/alike/ ? :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Neas Bade: heh :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  danxor danx0r: sort of like that old &amp;quot;Addicted To Love&amp;quot; video&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Charles Krinkeb: It builds a sense of community, and that is very good.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  danxor danx0r: I see yello + 8&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Dalien1 Talbot: hmm indeed me too.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Tleiades Hax: so, should I check the unit tests in?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Tleiades Hax: roger that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: how do you execute them at the moment?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: is it a manual run, or nunit?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  Tleiades Hax: well, I set my unit test module as executable, and run &amp;quot;nunit-gui&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Tleiades Hax: we probably should set up a propper nunit test project&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Neas Bade: lets start with what you have and work towards that goal&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Tleiades Hax: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Tleiades Hax: having my tests in svn will actually help me, I have lost 'em twice already&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Tleiades Hax: deleted the project folder, to get a fresh copy of opensim, and forgot to backup the tests&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Dalien1 Talbot: given the speed with which the things change, i think it is good to push the stuff in as early as possible (assuming it does not break the build or functionality)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Dalien1 Talbot: even if it is piece by piece&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tleiades Hax: yes, small pieces at a time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Tleiades Hax: but I think some branches in svn would be a good thing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Dalien1 Talbot: hmm then you'd need to maintain more than one&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Neas Bade: svn branches are actually a beast to merge&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Michael Wright: we used to have branches as generally it just leads to problems&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Dalien1 Talbot: i would rather try to keep it contained within one branch&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Michael Wright: as= and&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Neas Bade: I was thinking of creating a mercurial clone of svn trunk for people that wanted to do local branch changes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Charles Krinkeb: We declare a moratorium on updates from time to time for a few revisions if we need to pursue an idea that breaks the build for the general user.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Dalien1 Talbot: Charles: my build system always keeps the latest successful build&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  danxor danx0r: speaking of svn, I was thinking of creating opensim-libs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Neas Bade: in my experience using a distributed scm like mercurial makes life much easier if you want to do lots of branch stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Dalien1 Talbot: but ideally the build should never break&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  danxor danx0r: and starting down the path of getting a proper 3rd party build&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Michael Wright: yeah, having a stable tag branch , that is only updated say once a week or whatever, but we tell everyone (non developers) to stick to that, is fine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  danxor danx0r: what's mercurial? sounds like git&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: danxor, good point&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Charles Krinkeb: I was responding to Dan's comment a day or so ago that demanding the build always works may put the developers in a bind from time to time.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: danxor, yes, like git, but easier to learn to use&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Dalien1 Talbot: MW: so that branch would be always re-synced automagically ? or needs manual maintenance ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  danxor danx0r: it'll need a merge every week sounds like&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  danxor danx0r: or maybe not&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  danxor danx0r: just replace it with the latest thing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Dalien1 Talbot: hmm that would mean manual maintenance... = pita.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  danxor danx0r: hmmm&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Dalien1 Talbot: could do simpler imho&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade: is this discussion on the stable tag, or on mercurial?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Dalien1 Talbot: just declare that the stuff should work on monday morning build or such&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Tleiades Hax: stable tag, should be pretty easy to do, I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  danxor danx0r: if testing really works, you could build nightly, test, and update stable if test passes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Neas Bade: we need a few tests before we could believe that :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  danxor danx0r: good way to exercise the unit tests; if they miss something, we'll hear right away from users&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Neas Bade: but that does tie nicely into test automation to move the stable branch&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: that's almost what i do on opensim.be, except i do not have the unittests - merely if the compile succeeds then i update with the new binary...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Charles Krinkeb: Dalien, best to test that the client logs into the new binary to be sure.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: been trying to update that on the fly with things poping into my head&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Dalien1 Talbot: ckrinke: indeed. once there are automated tests for that, I will include them.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Tleiades Hax: those automated tests, using libsl would be soooo cool&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Dalien1 Talbot: although this boils down a bit to the unit testing&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Dalien1 Talbot: i assume that every person that commits the code does test that the code actually works :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Neas Bade: yes, I think automated tests with libsl will help a lot. I'm going to start digging into that tomorrow&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Dalien1 Talbot: there were a couple of glitches - but they are usually caught by the build failures, it seems.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Tleiades Hax: the problem is testing on all platforms&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Charles Krinkeb: I believe it is fair to say that code committed denotes responsibility to ensure users on both Linux &amp;amp; Windows have not gone backwards.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Dalien1 Talbot: ideally we should have an autobuild for both linux + windows&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: right, well we need some automation there first, then we can see about that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Dalien1 Talbot: so that the windows folks did not have to bother with the linux setup, and vice versa.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: we've got opensimulator.org for the linux side&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  chill ken: is the stable tag idea due to time between releases being too long? what about doing more minor releases?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Dalien1 Talbot: neas: ah you started to do the builds there as well ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: no, I haven't&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: but we could&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  danxor danx0r: charles: not sure it's reasonable to expect every commit to include full windows + linux tests&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  danxor danx0r: unless they are automated&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Dalien1 Talbot: ah ok - because http://ruth.opensim.be/build does do nightly build (nightly CET :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  danxor danx0r: I try to use my intuition about how far to test each commit&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Neas Bade: yeh, and I think that's fair&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Dalien1 Talbot: yeah i think it is a good approach.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Neas Bade: if people are running off svn they need to know there are risks there&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Charles Krinkeb: No, but I would suggest it is reasonable that each commit, makes a commitment to ensure the users have moved forward and not backwards. That can be as simple as making sure at least one user compiles and runs on the other platform.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Tleiades Hax: I think almost all, run off svn head&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  danxor danx0r: that's exactly why there should be a semi-stable branch for the increasing number of 'power users' who compile but don't typically code&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Dalien1 Talbot: Charles: I do not have the windows environment, and some folks do not have linux.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Neas Bade: well, I'm actually leaning against the stable tag, as it ends up being a crutch for not releasing more often&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Charles Krinkeb: I would concur with Sean&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: maintaining more than one branch is a pain..&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  danxor danx0r: yeah, I think the defacto assumption has been, test n your own machine&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Tleiades Hax: I'm leaning towards that point of view too&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  danxor danx0r: typically if you're not doing something involving build or native libs, you won't break the other platform&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  danxor danx0r: though I did have an exception where mono didn't run something .NET did&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Tleiades Hax: the biggest pain is in the native libs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  danxor danx0r: I suppose we could run mono on windows, and say mono is the gold standard for &amp;quot;this build doesn't segfault&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Neas Bade: I think that people are running on svn because the code is moving fast. We can't keep the code moving fast if we require a full regression test on every checkin :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: indeed&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: Tleiades -- I want to talk about the lib problem&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade: yeh, native libs is a beast&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade: danxor: go for it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: I think *all* libs, native or managed, that are not par tof standard build should be in a separate project&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: it will have two subfolders, managed &amp;amp; unmanaged&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: and each one has folders for each lib&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: then a top-level script to (eventually) invoke all the makes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: (though some are VS hand-make only now)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: I like that approach&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: copy the dll's &amp;amp; so's into bin&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: and perhaps create zips -- tho that gets into architecture&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: I think it would make sense not to polute bin/ with them though&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: it would be nice to have a seperate lib/&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: ie, someone somewhere needs to build them for each target supported&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: neas (sdague?) -- dunno how mono .net deals with looking for them&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: but keep in mind stuff like ode.net.dll needs to find the unmanged ode.dll&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: AND, sometimes ode.dll will need to find other native stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Tleiades Hax: mono is actually easier than .net I think&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Neas Bade: you just need to add paths in the prebuild.xml&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Neas Bade: or nant&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: well I don't mind polluting bin, if it's not in subversion&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: ok I didn't explain right --&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: you can choose to build libs, _OR_ you just donwload a zip file&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: which someone built for your platform&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: and that zips into bin, or ./lib if you prefer&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: no binaries in subversion!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  Neas Bade: well, what you are really talking about is opensim-libs releases&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: yes, right&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  Neas Bade: yep&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: I'm all for that&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: but it's not going to be on the same schedule as opensim commits&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Tleiades Hax: I like that too&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: opensim-libs is an svn repo&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: yup&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: we can start with just reasonable file organization&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: we can make it an svn external to the main opensim so you can have a single checkout to get the all if you are buliding from source&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: and the big makefile, all hail the make can come later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: well, probably we want nant instead of make&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: because for now, you gotsta do all the README's and INSTALL.txt&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: for each liv&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: lib&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: but at least, these will be the proper versions,&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: with maybe an opensim README about compile opts&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Neas Bade: ok, danxor, you got the ball for that one?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: so you can walk through it and end up at aknown state&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Dalien1 Talbot: hm how do we &amp;quot;freeze&amp;quot; the version of the foreign lib ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: yeah (sigh)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Neas Bade: to do the new repo&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: I'll start it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Dalien1 Talbot: e.g. libsl&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: what else besides ode do I need to build?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: libsl,&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: libsl&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: is taht C++?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: if we just have it &amp;quot;pull the latest&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: it's libopenjpeg is the .so&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: did we get the version thing right now?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: dalien -- &amp;quot;pull the latest&amp;quot; is a problem --&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: then the changes in the libsl would break the opensim-libs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: precisely&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: dalien, you can set a version number on an svn external IIRC&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: that's why we need copies of everything -- so we can say&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: we know this works with opensim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: sort of like a tag&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: you want to pull unstable and take a bet, go ahead&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: or we svn co -r&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Dalien1 Talbot: particular revision number&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Neas Bade: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s03.html&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Tleiades Hax: we are caught inbetween chairs on libsl&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  danxor danx0r: dalien -- well whoever maintains it needs to document what they do&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  danxor danx0r: there may be patches or subtle make changes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Dalien1 Talbot: cos we'd ideally then need the universal approach to all of the libs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  danxor danx0r: for instance, I modified ODE's build to statically link those stupid msvc dll's&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: but at least it's there in svn, in a known state&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: right... so could do something like gentoo &amp;amp; co - download the version that is needed, unpack, possibly patch, build ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Tleiades Hax: msvc dll dependencies are always a pain&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: if someone does somethhing funky, yeah you just svn -r opensim-libs&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: nice&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Stefan Andersson: Ok, so back.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Neas Bade: yeh, getting there would be great&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: tl -- turns out you can just compile statically but no one does&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Stefan Andersson: Wow, quite the turnout. And no sim crashes.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: ok I take the ball on this, with my copiouis free time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Tleiades Hax: yes, we do that at my workplace&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Stefan Andersson waves YAY!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: I'd love to have another commit-level dev on physics...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: no crash because we all stand still with our arms out&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Neas Bade: speaking of physics, how is that all going?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: and act like it's IRC&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: physics update: got a major bug with terrain&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: strange one, hunting it down&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Charles Krinkeb: Yep, you'all made a very stable sim server.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: then some tweaks on bouncinetss&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: bounciness&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  paulie Femto: Howdy hi!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: hi paulie&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: darok made some bullet improvements but it needs real work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Tleiades Hax: hi paulie&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: Gerard did that awesome hollow patch, but it's one of 20+ prim types&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: all of which can be in combination -- so that's a ton of work&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: are there specific things others can do to help out?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  danxor danx0r: I'd like to pull GErard in if possible&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  danxor danx0r: well...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Tleiades Hax: at some point, work on assets will overlap with the prim types&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: right, that's a good point tleiades&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  danxor danx0r: help: prim types&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  danxor danx0r: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  danxor danx0r: it's some wicked stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  danxor danx0r: common code to manage it would be great. Not sure who needs to know other than physics + client tho&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  danxor danx0r: scripts?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  Tleiades Hax: scripts will need it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  Tleiades Hax: to change prims based on scripts&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  Tleiades Hax: and those changes needs to be persisted into the asset store&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Tleiades Hax: I scanned the ll functions today, and all of those functions are not implemented&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Dalien1 Talbot: MW/lbsa: would like to spend 3-4 minutes with you later to discuss the TP stuff...(not to interrupt the physics thread now)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Charles Krinkeb: TL. Only about a third are implemented.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: right, I think actually getting assets somewhat more functional is probably required first&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Tleiades Hax: yes, I noticed, and for pretty good reasons too&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: which I'm very excited tleiades is digging into so much :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Tleiades Hax: I plan on working on that, for a little while&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Michael Wright: Dalien, okay but think for me at least, its going to have to be tomorrow, been a long day and need to spend some time resting&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  danxor danx0r: other physics issues:&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: in my opinion, ODE will not cut it without it being forked and worked on&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: it's just too damn unstable numerically&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Dalien1 Talbot: ok.. actually i think i will need to discuss with Tleiades too :-)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: it throws exceptions that need to be handled in C++&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: ppl have recommended OGre and other things&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  paulie Femto: Hows Bullet comin along?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Neas Bade: once we get assets working to a reasonable amount, there are a few other folks that I work with that are happy to grind out LSL functions&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: you sort of need a 'game engine' on top of physics, I've been ad-hacking it&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  danxor danx0r: bullet would need similar investment&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  danxor danx0r: but at least it's C#&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  paulie Femto: BulletX is more managed from the start, yeah.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: danxor, can you explain the difference between what we physics and game engine?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: in terms of what opensim needs?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  danxor danx0r: well&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  danxor danx0r: phsics is very general&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: objects, vectors, momentum, collision&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: game engines add character classes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: terrain&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: ability to modify &amp;amp; move stuff around without all hell breaking loose&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: the character class is probably the most important&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: and vehicle thingies&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: it can all be done from scratch, you know, just another layer of code to conceptualize and debug&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: I started out thinking it would be piece of cake&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: like everything, turns out it's sort of hard &amp;amp; stuff&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: what do you think the best approach here is in terms of getting there sooner rather than later?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: so if someone did it, I'd rather not have to&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: what, it's not SMOP?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: I think I need to look into what's available for C#&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: rather for .NET I guess&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: SMOP?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Neas Bade: simple matter of programming&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: sorry felt the need to collide&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Tleiades Hax: no physics here&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: heh&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Charles Krinkeb: basicphysics only on Sang&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: oh well&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: so can I walk thru you?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  danxor danx0r: hah SMOP exactly&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Neas Bade: hehehe&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  danxor danx0r: frankly before this project, I poo-pooed &amp;quot;game engines&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Charles Krinkeb: &amp;quot;mere implementation detail&amp;quot;?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Tleiades Hax: can we break the physics thing into smaller pieces?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  danxor danx0r: I figured I'm a macho programmer, etc&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  paulie Femto: Has anyone seen nixnerd around? Anyon eknow if he solved his issues with PHP launching a screen session?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  paulie Femto: brb. door.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  Charles Krinkeb: Sean: Do you envision this as a recurring weekly meeting and if so, where do we meet next Tuesday?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  Neas Bade: ok, I need to run away for a bit and pick up food at the farm here. Can people look at the Roadmap I started at: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap and embelish with more&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  Neas Bade: yes, I think we should try to do this every week&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  danxor danx0r: tleiades: one issue with physics is it's wired into the main code kinda slapdash&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Neas Bade: given that we've all gotten a bit more scattered on IRC, it is helpful to have once a week of actually people all being roughly active at the same time&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  danxor danx0r: there was talk pre 0.4 of a proper event model&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Charles Krinkeb: This sim is always up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Neas Bade: want to repropose event models on the -dev list?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Tleiades Hax listens&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  danxor danx0r: but we'd be more productive chatting if SL chat had name completion like IRC&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Neas Bade: yeh, maybe :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: it's a client feature on IRC :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Tleiades Hax: meeting here, is a good way of keeping track of our progress&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Michael Wright: I think the tuesday meetings every week is good, its a little bit late for me, but we aren't going to get times that are good for everyone, and I guess one bonus of it being at this time on a tuesday is that if we stick to a hour, then Zero's office hour is straight after (ie its just starting now)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Neas Bade: yeh, that was also a sneaking idea by me :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  danxor danx0r: have LL said anything about physics in the WG?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  danxor danx0r: it seems to get short shrift&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Neas Bade: nope, not yet&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  danxor danx0r: like &amp;quot;yeah, we'll add some physics spice at the end&amp;quot;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Stefan Andersson: Yeah; it's a bit late for me too, I can't do any real work, but as MW said, it's good enough.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  danxor danx0r: it shoud be a core ingredient, not a condiment :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Charles Krinkeb: The best meetings have a beginning, a middle, and most important, an end.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Neas Bade: honestly, the lindens haven't been big on details for the AWG yet&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Stefan Andersson: Alas, I need to go to bed, as I'm supposed to rise in like 5 hours.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Tleiades Hax: I am so totally at odds with the AWG&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Stefan Andersson: Bye all, ace seeing you all on Sang.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Tleiades Hax: nite&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Neas Bade: nite&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  danxor danx0r: well we need to do some wiki work on 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Charles Krinkeb: nite all&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Dalien1 Talbot: ok cya Stefan&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: are we all agreed that there be some sort of physics officially supported?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Stefan Andersson: (Sang's proabbly gonna be that legendary 'sirst island' that people talk about in SL)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: well, get over to SL now for Zero's office hours, and you can probably bring it up&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: I'll probably just listen for a bit&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: I took a screen shot&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: are we breaking up already?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Tleiades Hax: yes&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: I'll ping you on SL for a TP ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Dalien1 Talbot: I will blog the meeting :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: I plan to do it every week, so we can have an animated progression of opensim&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: you look Mahvleous!&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: catch you all later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  danxor danx0r: later&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Neas Bade: dalien, sure&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Tleiades Hax: danxor, I think a lot will want to catch Zero Lindens office hours&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  danxor danx0r: where is zero's office&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Tleiades Hax: hmm... I forgot&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: ping me on SL in a few - dalien talbot, once I get there via Sean, I TP you too :)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Dalien1 Talbot: cya on SL...&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  danxor danx0r: ok&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  Tleiades Hax: should we reconvene?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  Dalien1 Talbot: lets continue in IM on the SL ?&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  Dalien1 Talbot: (and could do a group there, i suppose?)&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-09</id>
		<title>Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2007-10-09"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T21:12:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: New page: [10:45]  Stefan Andersson: By the way; if anybody wants to explore the code, writing a simple 'module' [10:45]  Stefan Andersson: that logs all chat in a region to file would be a fun litt...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[10:45]  Stefan Andersson: By the way; if anybody wants to explore the code, writing a simple 'module'&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Stefan Andersson: that logs all chat in a region to file would be a fun little project&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  Dalien1 Talbot: indeed&lt;br /&gt;
[10:45]  You: and usefull for the meetings as well&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Stefan Andersson: MW introduced the module architecture so that people could write things more or less stand-alone.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: shouldn't we better revive the IRC gateway module ?&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: that one was quite functional..&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Stefan Andersson: Personally, I'm surprised that we haven't had more people setting up custom sims and writing modules.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Stefan Andersson: Why not have both?&lt;br /&gt;
[10:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: true.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Stefan Andersson: Everybody seems to want to hax core funcs.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  You: the infrastructure for dynamically loading modules isn't in place yet&lt;br /&gt;
[10:47]  Stefan Andersson: Which is fine; but I think the big breakthru comes the day people start pushing code from their own web sites.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  Stefan Andersson: Tlei, that's why I want people to get cracking at it. ;)&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  You: I think two things need to change, maybe three&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  You: we need a way do dynamically register plugins&lt;br /&gt;
[10:48]  You: we need to fill in the wiki page on modules&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  You: and as a possible last thing, but almost unrelated&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Stefan Andersson: That should be easy enough; a pick-up directory, or a part of the config.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  You: I think we should isolate the plugin pattern we use into an interface&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  You: I think both&lt;br /&gt;
[10:49]  Stefan Andersson: Well, yes; the plug-ins should have a well-defined facade into the system&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Stefan Andersson: that should coincide with the script engine facade&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  You: scan a subdirectory at run time, and look in the config file&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Stefan Andersson: As I said, simple enough, I think.&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  Stefan Andersson: We already have dir-scanners and config readers..&lt;br /&gt;
[10:50]  You: yes, we have all the component parts&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  You: should be a piece of cake to do&lt;br /&gt;
[10:51]  Stefan Andersson: Actually, we have so many of them they should be refactored into generic plug-in handlers&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  You: true&lt;br /&gt;
[10:52]  You: which is why I think we should define an IPlugin interface&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Stefan Andersson: Definitively&lt;br /&gt;
[10:56]  Stefan Andersson: Actually, if we could get all our plug-ins into the same structure, so that the different plugin managers could just fetch a list of plug-ins implementing a certain type; that'd be like ace++&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Neas Bade: welcome all&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Neas Bade: we actually have a pretty reasonable turn out already&lt;br /&gt;
[10:57]  Dalien1 Talbot: all of the plugins - like ?&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Stefan Andersson: So that the IPlugin should have something like IPlugin.Register( IRegisterPluginFacade facade )&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Dalien1 Talbot: ah something like meta-interface then ?&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Stefan Andersson: and IRegisterPluginFacade would have something like RegisterPlugin&amp;lt;TPlugin&amp;gt;( TPlugin instance )&lt;br /&gt;
[10:58]  Neas Bade: man, it will be nice when we have chains and can sit :)&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Stefan Andersson: That would mean 'Register me as handling calls to interface TPlugin'&lt;br /&gt;
[10:59]  Neas Bade: will someone volunteer to upload transcript of the office hours?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Stefan Andersson: Then any Plugin could ask IPluginFacade for GetHandler&amp;lt;TPlugin&amp;gt;()&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  You: if I don't crash, I can do it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: I'll be the backup.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Dalien1 Talbot: I'll also bounce it to the blog as well.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: Tleiades, you have logging turned on?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Stefan Andersson: Hm. GetHandler&amp;lt;TPlugin&amp;gt;( string name ) I guess&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: ok, cool&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: is neas==sean?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade: yes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: got it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:00]  Neas Bade is Sean Dague&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: here and in SL&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Michael Wright: seems like this is going to be everyone&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: sorry for showing up a little late, dalien / stefan, what did we I wonder into?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Stefan Andersson: Um, anybody up for implementing what I just said? :P&lt;br /&gt;
[11:01]  Neas Bade: yes, I agree&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  You: hmm. where do I turn on logging?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Stefan Andersson: We were just discussing refining the plug-in handling.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Stefan Andersson: Ok, so, I'm off for a while....&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Neas Bade: stefan: ok&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  You: k&lt;br /&gt;
[11:02]  Charles Krinkeb: As the host, welcome to Sang. Which I believe to the most stable sim on osgrid. It is checked for functionality every morning, runs on the osgrid server and has not crashed once.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:03]  Neas Bade: tleides it is under preferences somewhere&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Michael Wright: really need to fix up the time progressing sometime (night comes a bit too suddenly)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  You: think of as being close to equator&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Neas Bade: Tleiades posted some suggested agenda on the wiki, which seems like as good a place to start as any. Though prior to that, are there other specific things people would like to talk about?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:04]  Neas Bade: MW: heh :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:05]  Neas Bade: one of the things I'd like to throw out there is starting to build a master todo list on the wiki, as I think that will help letting people know where they can contribute bits&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: yes, agreed&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Neas Bade: man, everyone's quiet :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Dalien1 Talbot: i have crashed a couple of times :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: I think we should clean up the 0.5 list&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  You: make a free for all list of features they'd like&lt;br /&gt;
[11:06]  Neas Bade: tleiades, I'd like to hear your thoughts on better approaches to the database layer as well&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  You: and a list of features we plan for 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Michael Wright: yeah, a todo list is needed (and yeah its kind of the middle of getting my daughter to go to bed right now, hopefully in a bit I'll be able to talk more)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  Neas Bade: MW: no worries&lt;br /&gt;
[11:07]  You: I like the list the libsl guys have&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  Neas Bade: url?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:08]  You: http://www.libsecondlife.org/wiki/Roadmap&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  You: as for database layer, I think we should consider things in stages&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: Ok, I just started a Roadmap page on the wiki&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  You: right now, focus should be on getting stuf to work&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  Neas Bade: I'll take notes into it in &amp;quot;Uncategorized&amp;quot; for now and refine from there&lt;br /&gt;
[11:09]  You: kind of brute force&lt;br /&gt;
[11:10]  You: inventory is ok for mysql and sdague has sqlite well under control&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Michael Wright: the asset system is one area that so needs doing, I have been going to do it for weeks now, but as some of you know, for the last few weeks I've been very busy and just haven't had time&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  You: I have written some unit tests for that, and verified both sqlite and mysql&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Charles Krinkeb: Is it a correct assumption that inventory database stuff will not affect the sql users and regions table in grid mode?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:11]  Neas Bade: tleides, well, I think you correctly pointed out that some of the use of DataSets ends up being problematic for larger data (as we load it all into memory)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  You: I think mysql will be used for the larger grids, and sqlite for the standalone ones&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: I'm assuming you are going to take a slightly different approach on the mysql stuff for that?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  You: that is my gut feeling, so no big worries I think&lt;br /&gt;
[11:12]  Neas Bade: if you come up with a better pattern, I'll adapt the sqlite code to match that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  You: yes, not quite as elegant as your code, but it won't flood server memory&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: yeh, that's fine :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: performance counts for something ;)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:13]  Neas Bade: we can probably pull some patterns out of it and make it both pretty and performant&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Neas Bade: I'll admit to being pretty ado.net ignorant when I got started on that code, so learning as I go&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  You: IInventoryData implementation in MySql, is a sample, on how I plan to approach to MySQL&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Neas Bade: great&lt;br /&gt;
[11:14]  Neas Bade: also, those unit tests you have, can you check them into the build tree somewhere sensible?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Neas Bade: it would be really great to start getting tests in place for key function&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  You: well, problem with those are, what about programmers who aren't used to working with unit tests&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Charles Krinkeb: What sort of tests, neas?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  Neas Bade: we beat them with sticks until they like it :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:15]  danxor danx0r: heh&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  You: I have written some unitttests, for inventory data&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danxor danx0r: looks like yoga class&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Neas Bade: :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps tests could go on the wiki with simple step-by-step?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  nebadonb izumi: heheh yea&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  You: next will be unit tests for assets&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  Michael Wright: yeah doing unit tests are always good.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:16]  danxor danx0r: hi sorry I'm late -- technical glitches&lt;br /&gt;
[11:17]  Neas Bade: danxor and I were actually talking about testing earlier, and I was thinking about starting to create a functional test suite by using libsl to create bots and walk them through the environment. It would help with isolating some of the region crossing bugs I think.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: indeed. plus, with loadtesting as well...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Charles Krinkeb: Hmm. 9 avatars, 8 green dots.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  You: especially for the database plugins, it is the only way I can think of, which improves the probability of all the plugins working as expected&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  You: hey, that is a great idea, automated testing of sim functionality&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  You: I love that concept :-)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  danxor danx0r: unit tests, ftw&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Dalien1 Talbot: charles: self does not create the green dot :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  Neas Bade: tleiades: agreed&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  danxor danx0r: so would this be something we could all use on a single machine in stand-alone?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:18]  nebadonb izumi: you dont see yourself charles&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: danxor, yes, I think so&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  danxor danx0r: minimap is too small to see individual dots&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  danxor danx0r: ahh zoom. nv&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  You: danxor.. zoom works&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  danxor danx0r: mind&lt;br /&gt;
[11:19]  Neas Bade: at least that would be the goal&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  danxor danx0r: it's great to finally see what you all look like :-)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  You: lol&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Michael Wright: I think charles is right about the map, I see my yellow dot for myself then 7 green dots (but there is 8 other people here) one person isn't getting a dot&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Dalien1 Talbot: s/like/alike/ ? :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Neas Bade: heh :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  danxor danx0r: sort of like that old &amp;quot;Addicted To Love&amp;quot; video&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Charles Krinkeb: It builds a sense of community, and that is very good.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  danxor danx0r: I see yello + 8&lt;br /&gt;
[11:20]  Dalien1 Talbot: hmm indeed me too.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  You: so, should I check the unit tests in?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: yes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  You: roger that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: how do you execute them at the moment?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:21]  Neas Bade: is it a manual run, or nunit?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:22]  You: well, I set my unit test module as executable, and run &amp;quot;nunit-gui&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  You: we probably should set up a propper nunit test project&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  Neas Bade: lets start with what you have and work towards that goal&lt;br /&gt;
[11:23]  You: ok&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  You: having my tests in svn will actually help me, I have lost 'em twice already&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  You: deleted the project folder, to get a fresh copy of opensim, and forgot to backup the tests&lt;br /&gt;
[11:24]  Dalien1 Talbot: given the speed with which the things change, i think it is good to push the stuff in as early as possible (assuming it does not break the build or functionality)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Dalien1 Talbot: even if it is piece by piece&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  You: yes, small pieces at a time&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  You: but I think some branches in svn would be a good thing&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Dalien1 Talbot: hmm then you'd need to maintain more than one&lt;br /&gt;
[11:25]  Neas Bade: svn branches are actually a beast to merge&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Michael Wright: we used to have branches as generally it just leads to problems&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Dalien1 Talbot: i would rather try to keep it contained within one branch&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Michael Wright: as= and&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Neas Bade: I was thinking of creating a mercurial clone of svn trunk for people that wanted to do local branch changes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:26]  Charles Krinkeb: We declare a moratorium on updates from time to time for a few revisions if we need to pursue an idea that breaks the build for the general user.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Dalien1 Talbot: Charles: my build system always keeps the latest successful build&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  danxor danx0r: speaking of svn, I was thinking of creating opensim-libs&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Neas Bade: in my experience using a distributed scm like mercurial makes life much easier if you want to do lots of branch stuff&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Dalien1 Talbot: but ideally the build should never break&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  danxor danx0r: and starting down the path of getting a proper 3rd party build&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  Michael Wright: yeah, having a stable tag branch , that is only updated say once a week or whatever, but we tell everyone (non developers) to stick to that, is fine&lt;br /&gt;
[11:27]  danxor danx0r: what's mercurial? sounds like git&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: danxor, good point&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Charles Krinkeb: I was responding to Dan's comment a day or so ago that demanding the build always works may put the developers in a bind from time to time.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Neas Bade: danxor, yes, like git, but easier to learn to use&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Dalien1 Talbot: MW: so that branch would be always re-synced automagically ? or needs manual maintenance ?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  danxor danx0r: it'll need a merge every week sounds like&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  danxor danx0r: or maybe not&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  danxor danx0r: just replace it with the latest thing&lt;br /&gt;
[11:28]  Dalien1 Talbot: hmm that would mean manual maintenance... = pita.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  danxor danx0r: hmmm&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Dalien1 Talbot: could do simpler imho&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Neas Bade: is this discussion on the stable tag, or on mercurial?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  Dalien1 Talbot: just declare that the stuff should work on monday morning build or such&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  You: stable tag, should be pretty easy to do, I think&lt;br /&gt;
[11:29]  danxor danx0r: if testing really works, you could build nightly, test, and update stable if test passes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Neas Bade: we need a few tests before we could believe that :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  danxor danx0r: good way to exercise the unit tests; if they miss something, we'll hear right away from users&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Neas Bade: but that does tie nicely into test automation to move the stable branch&lt;br /&gt;
[11:30]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: that's almost what i do on opensim.be, except i do not have the unittests - merely if the compile succeeds then i update with the new binary...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Charles Krinkeb: Dalien, best to test that the client logs into the new binary to be sure.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:31]  Neas Bade: been trying to update that on the fly with things poping into my head&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Dalien1 Talbot: ckrinke: indeed. once there are automated tests for that, I will include them.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  You: those automated tests, using libsl would be soooo cool&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Dalien1 Talbot: although this boils down a bit to the unit testing&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Dalien1 Talbot: i assume that every person that commits the code does test that the code actually works :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:32]  Neas Bade: yes, I think automated tests with libsl will help a lot. I'm going to start digging into that tomorrow&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Dalien1 Talbot: there were a couple of glitches - but they are usually caught by the build failures, it seems.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  You: the problem is testing on all platforms&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Charles Krinkeb: I believe it is fair to say that code committed denotes responsibility to ensure users on both Linux &amp;amp; Windows have not gone backwards.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:33]  Dalien1 Talbot: ideally we should have an autobuild for both linux + windows&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: right, well we need some automation there first, then we can see about that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Dalien1 Talbot: so that the windows folks did not have to bother with the linux setup, and vice versa.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: we've got opensimulator.org for the linux side&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  chill ken: is the stable tag idea due to time between releases being too long? what about doing more minor releases?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Dalien1 Talbot: neas: ah you started to do the builds there as well ?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: no, I haven't&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Neas Bade: but we could&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  danxor danx0r: charles: not sure it's reasonable to expect every commit to include full windows + linux tests&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  danxor danx0r: unless they are automated&lt;br /&gt;
[11:34]  Dalien1 Talbot: ah ok - because http://ruth.opensim.be/build does do nightly build (nightly CET :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  danxor danx0r: I try to use my intuition about how far to test each commit&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Neas Bade: yeh, and I think that's fair&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Dalien1 Talbot: yeah i think it is a good approach.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Neas Bade: if people are running off svn they need to know there are risks there&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  Charles Krinkeb: No, but I would suggest it is reasonable that each commit, makes a commitment to ensure the users have moved forward and not backwards. That can be as simple as making sure at least one user compiles and runs on the other platform.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  You: I think almost all, run off svn head&lt;br /&gt;
[11:35]  danxor danx0r: that's exactly why there should be a semi-stable branch for the increasing number of 'power users' who compile but don't typically code&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Dalien1 Talbot: Charles: I do not have the windows environment, and some folks do not have linux.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Neas Bade: well, I'm actually leaning against the stable tag, as it ends up being a crutch for not releasing more often&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Charles Krinkeb: I would concur with Sean&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: maintaining more than one branch is a pain..&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  danxor danx0r: yeah, I think the defacto assumption has been, test n your own machine&lt;br /&gt;
[11:36]  You: I'm leaning towards that point of view too&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  danxor danx0r: typically if you're not doing something involving build or native libs, you won't break the other platform&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  danxor danx0r: though I did have an exception where mono didn't run something .NET did&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  You: the biggest pain is in the native libs&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  danxor danx0r: I suppose we could run mono on windows, and say mono is the gold standard for &amp;quot;this build doesn't segfault&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Neas Bade: I think that people are running on svn because the code is moving fast. We can't keep the code moving fast if we require a full regression test on every checkin :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:37]  Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: indeed&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: Tleiades -- I want to talk about the lib problem&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade: yeh, native libs is a beast&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  Neas Bade: danxor: go for it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: I think *all* libs, native or managed, that are not par tof standard build should be in a separate project&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: it will have two subfolders, managed &amp;amp; unmanaged&lt;br /&gt;
[11:38]  danxor danx0r: and each one has folders for each lib&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: then a top-level script to (eventually) invoke all the makes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: (though some are VS hand-make only now)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: I like that approach&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: copy the dll's &amp;amp; so's into bin&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: and perhaps create zips -- tho that gets into architecture&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: I think it would make sense not to polute bin/ with them though&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  Neas Bade: it would be nice to have a seperate lib/&lt;br /&gt;
[11:39]  danxor danx0r: ie, someone somewhere needs to build them for each target supported&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: neas (sdague?) -- dunno how mono .net deals with looking for them&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: but keep in mind stuff like ode.net.dll needs to find the unmanged ode.dll&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: AND, sometimes ode.dll will need to find other native stuff&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  You: mono is actually easier than .net I think&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Neas Bade: you just need to add paths in the prebuild.xml&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  Neas Bade: or nant&lt;br /&gt;
[11:40]  danxor danx0r: well I don't mind polluting bin, if it's not in subversion&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: ok I didn't explain right --&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: you can choose to build libs, _OR_ you just donwload a zip file&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: which someone built for your platform&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: and that zips into bin, or ./lib if you prefer&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: no binaries in subversion!&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  Neas Bade: well, what you are really talking about is opensim-libs releases&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  danxor danx0r: yes, right&lt;br /&gt;
[11:41]  Neas Bade: yep&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: I'm all for that&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: but it's not going to be on the same schedule as opensim commits&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  You: I like that too&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: opensim-libs is an svn repo&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: yup&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: we can start with just reasonable file organization&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: we can make it an svn external to the main opensim so you can have a single checkout to get the all if you are buliding from source&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: and the big makefile, all hail the make can come later&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  Neas Bade: well, probably we want nant instead of make&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: because for now, you gotsta do all the README's and INSTALL.txt&lt;br /&gt;
[11:42]  danxor danx0r: for each liv&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: lib&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: but at least, these will be the proper versions,&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: with maybe an opensim README about compile opts&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Neas Bade: ok, danxor, you got the ball for that one?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: so you can walk through it and end up at aknown state&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Dalien1 Talbot: hm how do we &amp;quot;freeze&amp;quot; the version of the foreign lib ?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: yeah (sigh)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Neas Bade: to do the new repo&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  danxor danx0r: I'll start it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:43]  Dalien1 Talbot: e.g. libsl&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: what else besides ode do I need to build?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: libsl,&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: libsl&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: is taht C++?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: if we just have it &amp;quot;pull the latest&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: it's libopenjpeg is the .so&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: did we get the version thing right now?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: dalien -- &amp;quot;pull the latest&amp;quot; is a problem --&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: then the changes in the libsl would break the opensim-libs&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: precisely&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: dalien, you can set a version number on an svn external IIRC&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: that's why we need copies of everything -- so we can say&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: we know this works with opensim&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Neas Bade: sort of like a tag&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  danxor danx0r: you want to pull unstable and take a bet, go ahead&lt;br /&gt;
[11:44]  Dalien1 Talbot: or we svn co -r&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Dalien1 Talbot: particular revision number&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Neas Bade: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s03.html&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  You: we are caught inbetween chairs on libsl&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  danxor danx0r: dalien -- well whoever maintains it needs to document what they do&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  danxor danx0r: there may be patches or subtle make changes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  Dalien1 Talbot: cos we'd ideally then need the universal approach to all of the libs&lt;br /&gt;
[11:45]  danxor danx0r: for instance, I modified ODE's build to statically link those stupid msvc dll's&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: but at least it's there in svn, in a known state&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Dalien1 Talbot: right... so could do something like gentoo &amp;amp; co - download the version that is needed, unpack, possibly patch, build ?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  You: msvc dll dependencies are always a pain&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: if someone does somethhing funky, yeah you just svn -r opensim-libs&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: nice&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Stefan Andersson: Ok, so back.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Neas Bade: yeh, getting there would be great&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: tl -- turns out you can just compile statically but no one does&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  Stefan Andersson: Wow, quite the turnout. And no sim crashes.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:46]  danxor danx0r: ok I take the ball on this, with my copiouis free time&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  You: yes, we do that at my workplace&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Stefan Andersson waves YAY!&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: I'd love to have another commit-level dev on physics...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: no crash because we all stand still with our arms out&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Neas Bade: speaking of physics, how is that all going?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: and act like it's IRC&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: physics update: got a major bug with terrain&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  danxor danx0r: strange one, hunting it down&lt;br /&gt;
[11:47]  Charles Krinkeb: Yep, you'all made a very stable sim server.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: then some tweaks on bouncinetss&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: bounciness&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  paulie Femto: Howdy hi!&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: hi paulie&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: darok made some bullet improvements but it needs real work&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  You: hi paulie&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: Gerard did that awesome hollow patch, but it's one of 20+ prim types&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  danxor danx0r: all of which can be in combination -- so that's a ton of work&lt;br /&gt;
[11:48]  Neas Bade: are there specific things others can do to help out?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  danxor danx0r: I'd like to pull GErard in if possible&lt;br /&gt;
[11:49]  danxor danx0r: well...&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  You: at some point, work on assets will overlap with the prim types&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  Neas Bade: right, that's a good point tleiades&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  danxor danx0r: help: prim types&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  danxor danx0r: yes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:50]  danxor danx0r: it's some wicked stuff&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  danxor danx0r: common code to manage it would be great. Not sure who needs to know other than physics + client tho&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  danxor danx0r: scripts?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  You: scripts will need it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  You: to change prims based on scripts&lt;br /&gt;
[11:51]  You: and those changes needs to be persisted into the asset store&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  You: I scanned the ll functions today, and all of those functions are not implemented&lt;br /&gt;
[11:52]  Dalien1 Talbot: MW/lbsa: would like to spend 3-4 minutes with you later to discuss the TP stuff...(not to interrupt the physics thread now)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Charles Krinkeb: TL. Only about a third are implemented.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: right, I think actually getting assets somewhat more functional is probably required first&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: yes, I noticed, and for pretty good reasons too&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Neas Bade: which I'm very excited tleiades is digging into so much :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  You: I plan on working on that, for a little while&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  Michael Wright: Dalien, okay but think for me at least, its going to have to be tomorrow, been a long day and need to spend some time resting&lt;br /&gt;
[11:53]  danxor danx0r: other physics issues:&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: in my opinion, ODE will not cut it without it being forked and worked on&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: it's just too damn unstable numerically&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Dalien1 Talbot: ok.. actually i think i will need to discuss with Tleiades too :-)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: it throws exceptions that need to be handled in C++&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: ppl have recommended OGre and other things&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  paulie Femto: Hows Bullet comin along?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  Neas Bade: once we get assets working to a reasonable amount, there are a few other folks that I work with that are happy to grind out LSL functions&lt;br /&gt;
[11:54]  danxor danx0r: you sort of need a 'game engine' on top of physics, I've been ad-hacking it&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  danxor danx0r: bullet would need similar investment&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  danxor danx0r: but at least it's C#&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  paulie Femto: BulletX is more managed from the start, yeah.&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: danxor, can you explain the difference between what we physics and game engine?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:55]  Neas Bade: in terms of what opensim needs?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  danxor danx0r: well&lt;br /&gt;
[11:56]  danxor danx0r: phsics is very general&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: objects, vectors, momentum, collision&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: game engines add character classes&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: terrain&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: ability to modify &amp;amp; move stuff around without all hell breaking loose&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: the character class is probably the most important&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: and vehicle thingies&lt;br /&gt;
[11:57]  danxor danx0r: it can all be done from scratch, you know, just another layer of code to conceptualize and debug&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: I started out thinking it would be piece of cake&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: like everything, turns out it's sort of hard &amp;amp; stuff&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: what do you think the best approach here is in terms of getting there sooner rather than later?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: :)&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: so if someone did it, I'd rather not have to&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  Neas Bade: what, it's not SMOP?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: I think I need to look into what's available for C#&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: rather for .NET I guess&lt;br /&gt;
[11:58]  danxor danx0r: SMOP?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Neas Bade: simple matter of programming&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: sorry felt the need to collide&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  You: no physics here&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: heh&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  Charles Krinkeb: basicphysics only on Sang&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: oh well&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: so can I walk thru you?&lt;br /&gt;
[11:59]  danxor danx0r: ok&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  danxor danx0r: hah SMOP exactly&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Neas Bade: hehehe&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  danxor danx0r: frankly before this project, I poo-pooed &amp;quot;game engines&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  Charles Krinkeb: &amp;quot;mere implementation detail&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  You: can we break the physics thing into smaller pieces?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  danxor danx0r: I figured I'm a macho programmer, etc&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  paulie Femto: Has anyone seen nixnerd around? Anyon eknow if he solved his issues with PHP launching a screen session?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:00]  paulie Femto: brb. door.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  Charles Krinkeb: Sean: Do you envision this as a recurring weekly meeting and if so, where do we meet next Tuesday?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  Neas Bade: ok, I need to run away for a bit and pick up food at the farm here. Can people look at the Roadmap I started at: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Roadmap and embelish with more&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  Neas Bade: yes, I think we should try to do this every week&lt;br /&gt;
[12:02]  danxor danx0r: tleiades: one issue with physics is it's wired into the main code kinda slapdash&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Neas Bade: given that we've all gotten a bit more scattered on IRC, it is helpful to have once a week of actually people all being roughly active at the same time&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  danxor danx0r: there was talk pre 0.4 of a proper event model&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Charles Krinkeb: This sim is always up&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Neas Bade: want to repropose event models on the -dev list?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  Tleiades Hax listens&lt;br /&gt;
[12:03]  danxor danx0r: but we'd be more productive chatting if SL chat had name completion like IRC&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Neas Bade: yeh, maybe :)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: it's a client feature on IRC :)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  You: meeting here, is a good way of keeping track of our progress&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Michael Wright: I think the tuesday meetings every week is good, its a little bit late for me, but we aren't going to get times that are good for everyone, and I guess one bonus of it being at this time on a tuesday is that if we stick to a hour, then Zero's office hour is straight after (ie its just starting now)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Neas Bade: yeh, that was also a sneaking idea by me :)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  danxor danx0r: have LL said anything about physics in the WG?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  danxor danx0r: it seems to get short shrift&lt;br /&gt;
[12:04]  Neas Bade: nope, not yet&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  danxor danx0r: like &amp;quot;yeah, we'll add some physics spice at the end&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Stefan Andersson: Yeah; it's a bit late for me too, I can't do any real work, but as MW said, it's good enough.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  danxor danx0r: it shoud be a core ingredient, not a condiment :)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Charles Krinkeb: The best meetings have a beginning, a middle, and most important, an end.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Neas Bade: honestly, the lindens haven't been big on details for the AWG yet&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Stefan Andersson: Alas, I need to go to bed, as I'm supposed to rise in like 5 hours.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  You: I am so totally at odds with the AWG&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Stefan Andersson: Bye all, ace seeing you all on Sang.&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  You: nite&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Neas Bade: nite&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  danxor danx0r: well we need to do some wiki work on 0.5&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Charles Krinkeb: nite all&lt;br /&gt;
[12:05]  Dalien1 Talbot: ok cya Stefan&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: are we all agreed that there be some sort of physics officially supported?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Stefan Andersson: (Sang's proabbly gonna be that legendary 'sirst island' that people talk about in SL)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: well, get over to SL now for Zero's office hours, and you can probably bring it up&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: ok&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: I'll probably just listen for a bit&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: I took a screen shot&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: are we breaking up already?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  You: yes&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Dalien1 Talbot: Neas: I'll ping you on SL for a TP ?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Dalien1 Talbot: I will blog the meeting :)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: I plan to do it every week, so we can have an animated progression of opensim&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  danxor danx0r: you look Mahvleous!&lt;br /&gt;
[12:06]  Neas Bade: catch you all later&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  danxor danx0r: later&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Neas Bade: dalien, sure&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  You: danxor, I think a lot will want to catch Zero Lindens office hours&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  danxor danx0r: where is zero's office&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  You: hmm... I forgot&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Dalien1 Talbot: danx0r: ping me on SL in a few - dalien talbot, once I get there via Sean, I TP you too :)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  Dalien1 Talbot: cya on SL...&lt;br /&gt;
[12:07]  danxor danx0r: ok&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  You: should we reconvene?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  Dalien1 Talbot: lets continue in IM on the SL ?&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  Dalien1 Talbot: (and could do a group there, i suppose?)&lt;br /&gt;
[12:08]  You: k&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T21:12:23Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; on osgrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Handling code contributions from non core developers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Branches in subversion '''(done)'''&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Lock feature set for 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
[[Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-09]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T13:00:48Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; on osgrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Handling code contributions from non core developers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Branches in subversion&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
#) Lock feature set for 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T10:11:29Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; on osgrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1) Handling code contributions from non core developers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2) Branches in subversion&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3) Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
4) Lock feature set for 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T10:11:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; on osgrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&lt;br /&gt;
1) Handling code contributions from non core developers&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2) Branches in subversion&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3) Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
4) Lock feature set for 0.5&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T10:10:36Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; on osgrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&lt;br /&gt;
1) Handling code contributions from non core developers&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Branches in subversion&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3) Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4) Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours</id>
		<title>Office hours</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours"/>
				<updated>2007-10-09T10:10:17Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;OpenSim weekly office hours are held in an OpenSim world somewhere on the Internet.  The purpose of these office hours is to created a focussed weekly discussion on the state of OpenSim, and things that need attention.  It is intended for people wishing to become contributors to the project, so if you show up, you'll probably walk away with something on your todo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours are held on Tuesdays at 19:00 UTC.  This corresponds to:&lt;br /&gt;
* 12:00 - San Francisco (U.S.A. - California)&lt;br /&gt;
* 15:00 - New York (U.S.A. - New York)&lt;br /&gt;
* 21:00 - Oslo (Norway)&lt;br /&gt;
* 03:00 Wed - Perth (Australia)  (sorry adam)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The office hours will take place at the sim &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot; on osgrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get to this sim, make sure you have created an account with the normal first, last and password and set the home location to &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;. This is done at http://www.osgrid.org.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then startup the client with a -loginuri of &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot; and you should arrive on &amp;quot;Sang&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Tleiades) would suggest the following agenda:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agenda&lt;br /&gt;
1) Handling code contributions from non core developers&lt;br /&gt;
2) Branches in subversion&lt;br /&gt;
3) Supporting OSGrid, DeepGrid, et. al.&lt;br /&gt;
4) Lock feature set for 0.5&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSimulator:0.5_Release_Target_Discussion</id>
		<title>OpenSimulator:0.5 Release Target Discussion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSimulator:0.5_Release_Target_Discussion"/>
				<updated>2007-10-03T02:31:06Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Planet Mode */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Suggested Goals==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Physics==&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
* Support for at least one physics engine with basic collision detection&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* looks like hollow prims and some other simple shapes may be possible&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* ODE is furthest along at this point.  Issues include overall stability and lack of multithreading&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* BulletX is being worked on&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* New physics interface design? (event driven)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==New Backend Protocol (OGS 2)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== As part of the new protocol, overhaul the &amp;quot;commsmanager&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*A lot of the functions currently in there, needs moving out. Like most of the Caps handling needs to be moved to the backend servers (possible with a dedicated Caps Manager server, like LL seem to have). &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
*Inventory handling should move to a module. As should Xfer uploads.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rewrite Asset Cache/Server==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Improve the management of client updates==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Use a &amp;quot;interest list&amp;quot; for each connected client, so they only get updated about prims/objects that are in range (or they need to know about). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Combine objects (parts) into single packets, rather than sending a separate packet for each prim as currently happens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Finish implementing the ll functions for scripting. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Improve UDP network code (ClientStack) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Clean up the IClientAPI interface ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Start to think more about security ? (most likely will not happen until a later version)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Add security sinks in the &amp;quot;region to region&amp;quot; .Net remoting process. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Check for security wholes in scripting engine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tighter integration of DataStore into the core ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Planet Mode ==&lt;br /&gt;
One on the shortcomings of the grid model is that it is a &amp;quot;Flat Earth&amp;quot; approach. By doing little more modifying OpenSim to (optionally) connect the northern edge of the topmost region to the southern edge of the bottom region and a similar mod for the east and western edges and we have effectively brought together any group of contiguous regions within a grid and created a planet. If you keep walking/flying long enough you would eventually (or very quickly - the more sims the larger the planet) arrive back at your point of origin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Try this - take a map of your sim and apply it as a texture to a sphere - see what I mean?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The analogy can also be extended further, a sandalone sim becomes a Planetary System Server, a grid server becomes Star System Server and a new level could be added to link Grids - The Galaxy Server but I am thinking the info DNS provides may already have that covered.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I now invite the community to debate the concept further - are we a &amp;quot;Flat Earth&amp;quot; or a &amp;quot;Planetary System&amp;quot; with galactic potential?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Magi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not to pick nits, but connecting N/S and E/W edges of a plane doesn't give you a sphere. It gives you a torus. The image we have here is a universe of doughnut shaped grids floating in space.... Mmmm donuts (it is still a pretty cool idea) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lamont&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think we need a section for suggestions to new features and a section for what will be part of the next release.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Tleiades&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Parcel Media Settings ==&lt;br /&gt;
The multimedia functions in OpenSim create an awesome environment for presenting an enormous range of material. Whilst the parcel media settings can be set they do not persist between sessions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Magi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSimulator:0.5_Release_Target_Discussion</id>
		<title>OpenSimulator:0.5 Release Target Discussion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSimulator:0.5_Release_Target_Discussion"/>
				<updated>2007-10-03T02:30:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Planet Mode */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Suggested Goals==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Physics==&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
* Support for at least one physics engine with basic collision detection&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* looks like hollow prims and some other simple shapes may be possible&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* ODE is furthest along at this point.  Issues include overall stability and lack of multithreading&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* BulletX is being worked on&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* New physics interface design? (event driven)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==New Backend Protocol (OGS 2)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== As part of the new protocol, overhaul the &amp;quot;commsmanager&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*A lot of the functions currently in there, needs moving out. Like most of the Caps handling needs to be moved to the backend servers (possible with a dedicated Caps Manager server, like LL seem to have). &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
*Inventory handling should move to a module. As should Xfer uploads.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rewrite Asset Cache/Server==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Improve the management of client updates==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Use a &amp;quot;interest list&amp;quot; for each connected client, so they only get updated about prims/objects that are in range (or they need to know about). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Combine objects (parts) into single packets, rather than sending a separate packet for each prim as currently happens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Finish implementing the ll functions for scripting. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Improve UDP network code (ClientStack) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Clean up the IClientAPI interface ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Start to think more about security ? (most likely will not happen until a later version)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Add security sinks in the &amp;quot;region to region&amp;quot; .Net remoting process. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Check for security wholes in scripting engine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tighter integration of DataStore into the core ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Planet Mode ==&lt;br /&gt;
One on the shortcomings of the grid model is that it is a &amp;quot;Flat Earth&amp;quot; approach. By doing little more modifying OpenSim to (optionally) connect the northern edge of the topmost region to the southern edge of the bottom region and a similar mod for the east and western edges and we have effectively brought together any group of contiguous regions within a grid and created a planet. If you keep walking/flying long enough you would eventually (or very quickly - the more sims the larger the planet) arrive back at your point of origin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Try this - take a map of your sim and apply it as a texture to a sphere - see what I mean?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The analogy can also be extended further, a sandalone sim becomes a Planetary System Server, a grid server becomes Star System Server and a new level could be added to link Grids - The Galaxy Server but I am thinking the info DNS provides may already have that covered.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I now invite the community to debate the concept further - are we a &amp;quot;Flat Earth&amp;quot; or a &amp;quot;Planetary System&amp;quot; with galactic potential?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Magi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not to pick nits, but connecting N/S and E/W edges of a plane doesn't give you a sphere. It gives you a torus. The image we have here is a universe of doughnut shaped grids floating in space.... Mmmm donuts (it is still a pretty cool idea) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lamont&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think we need a section for suggestions to new features and a section for what will be part of the next release.&lt;br /&gt;
Tleiades&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Parcel Media Settings ==&lt;br /&gt;
The multimedia functions in OpenSim create an awesome environment for presenting an enormous range of material. Whilst the parcel media settings can be set they do not persist between sessions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Magi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Network_Settings</id>
		<title>Network Settings</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Network_Settings"/>
				<updated>2007-09-27T14:12:32Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Ports used by OpenSim */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Network settings ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim/Grid can be pretty tricky when it comes to setting it up on a private network this document covers what OpenSim needs in terms of network resources.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ports used by OpenSim ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OGS1 Grid Modes - Standard Port List&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* TCP/8000 - Reserved &lt;br /&gt;
* TCP/8001 - Grid Server &lt;br /&gt;
* TCP/8002 - User Server and Login Services &lt;br /&gt;
* TCP/8003 - Asset Services &lt;br /&gt;
* TCP/8004 - Inventory Services&lt;br /&gt;
* TCP/8005 - Reserved (Dispatch Services)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Simulators ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UDP+TCP/9000 - Default First Simulator &lt;br /&gt;
* UDP+TCP/9001 - Default Second Simulator &lt;br /&gt;
etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: If you use your simulator in standalone mode, it is enough to open the UDP+TCP/9000 on your firewall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Issues with NAT and Port Forwarding ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If your host does not have a public IP address (eg it is hidden behind a home router) you will have issues hosting grid and region servers if you plan on connecting clients to it on both sides of the router, however this can be worked around through very careful application of port forwarding and use of DNS host files. Please note this is not guarunteed to work (and is most likely to fail), it is highly recommended to have a internet accessible public static IP for the server which is hosting the regions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Method: &lt;br /&gt;
* Set the simulator listening IP address to your public facing IP address (that of the router concerned) &lt;br /&gt;
* Port forward the above ports through to the simulator on both UDP and TCP. &lt;br /&gt;
* Use an “ExternalAddress” of “somesimulator.somedomain.com” where you control the DNS for somedomain.com and can enter a “A Record” for ‘somesimulator.’ to your routers IP address. &lt;br /&gt;
* Create a “hosts” file (on windows, this is C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts and on Unix-type systems, this is /etc/hosts) entry on your internal client machines, for somesimulator.somedomain.com to your local LAN address for the simulator.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration</id>
		<title>Configuration</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration"/>
				<updated>2007-09-27T14:10:02Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Tips */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;It is recommended that you first get OpenSim running in standalone mode, before you attempt to connect it to a grid, either your own grid or a public grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator actually consists of four services, known as UGAS which stand for User, Grid, Asset &amp;amp; Simulator. They are started in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running in its default standalone mode has all the services self-contained, but they are very modest. This means any first/last/password works. It also means inventory is all local with no region or grid-wide connections.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as a local grid runs all four services on the same computer. Multiple sims can be run, across-region crossing including teleporting and a set of inventory items that are within this local grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as part of a public grid runs only OpenSim.exe and the other three services are running on a server common to many regions. This also means that understanding the needed UUID, X,Y location, server handshake passwords, master avatar first/last/password and a couple of other settings. These are not difficult, but do require a little care in setting up.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Command Line arguments passed to OpenSim.exe=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim.exe responds to various command line arguments. These include &amp;quot;-inifile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-configfile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-gridmode&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-physics&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-config&amp;quot; &amp;amp; &amp;quot;-noverbose&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When starting OpenSim in either Windows or Linux, one can add &amp;quot;-physics=OpenDynamicsEngine&amp;quot; to run the OpenDynamicsEngine instead of basicphysics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most users in standalone mode will not add any command line arguments. For local grid or public grid, the &amp;quot;-gridmode=true&amp;quot; is usually the only argument used. The rest are for more advanced configuration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Standalone mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you start OpenSim in standalone mode, it will ask you several question at the console. The first set of prompts that start with &amp;quot;NETWORK SERVERS INFO&amp;quot;, you can just hit return to accept the defaults if you will be running in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The prompts that start with &amp;quot;DEFAULT REGION CONFIG&amp;quot; are where you need to start paying attention. Some are self-explanatory. Here are explanations for the others:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Location. OpenSim regions can be placed anywhere on a 65536 by 65536 grid. In standalone mode, it is safe to leave these X and Y locations at their defaults.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Filename for local storage. Safe to leave at default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP address; This should always be 0.0.0.0&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP port for incoming UDP client connection. You can make this any port you want, but it is safe to leave at the default 9000.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* External host name. If you will only be attaching to your sim from a SecondLife client on the same machine, you can leave this at the default 127.0.0.1. If you will be wanting to connect to it from a client on another machine, this should be the IP address or hostname of the machine you are running this sim on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To connect to your new sim, start up secondlife with the following command line switches: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:9000/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This assumes you are running the secondlife client on the same box. If you are running it on a separate box, substitute the IP address of your sim machine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To create a user:&lt;br /&gt;
type &amp;quot;create user &amp;lt;first&amp;gt; &amp;lt;last&amp;gt; &amp;lt;password&amp;gt; &amp;lt;x_loc&amp;gt; &amp;lt;y_loc&amp;gt;&amp;quot; in the server console&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Grid mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You want to run your own grid. Great! Assuming that you already got your sim running in standalone mode, here is what you need to do:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Current builds of OpenSim grid mode are using mysql to store the grid information. You must have this installed and configured if you want to run your own grid. See [[mysql-config]] for more information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The servers should be started in a certain order. UGAS: UserServer, GridServer, AssetServer, Sim. These are all found in the bin directory. In windows, you can just double-click on the executables to start them. In linux, you will probably have to start them with mono. The executable names are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Start the UserServer. If you will be running the GridServer on the same box, hit enter to accept the defaults, until  it gives you the prompt &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenUser#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the main prompt for the user server. If you will be running the GridServer on another box, change the Default Grid Server URI as appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Start the GridServer. Again, you can hit return at all the prompts if you are running them all on the same machine. If not, change the URIs for the Asset Server and User server to point to where you are running them. You will finally get to the console prompt for the GridServer which looks like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenGrid#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Start the AssetServer. This is not used at the current time, so you don't need to start it. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenAsset#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. Start the InventoryServer. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenInventory#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. If you are running all of these servers on the same box, which would be the normal configuration. You should be ready to start up your sim. Since the OpenSim.exe starts up by default in standalone mode, you will need to give it a command line switch to tell it to use gridmode instead:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mono OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With any luck, everything will come up without too many arrors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. Go to the UserServer console, and type 'create user' to create a new avatar. It will prompt you for the name and password, and the X and Y of the sim that should be his home location. Use 1000 and 1000, or wherever you told your sim to live when you brought it up in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the console of any of these servers, you should be able to type 'help' to get a list of commands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should now be able to connect to your new grid with your secondlife client. You need to tell your client to point at the UserServer rather than direclty at the sim, though:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 secondlife -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:8002/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8002 is the default port for the UserServer, and that IP address should be changed to the server you are running the UserServer on, if they are not all on the same box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Happy OpenSimming!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Technical Addendum ===&lt;br /&gt;
For running multiple regions on the same box, you simply make multiple copies of the 'default.xml' file inside the /bin/regions/ directory. Name them anything you want (I name mine x.y.xml, where x znd y are the grid coords)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Open each xml file and edit the uuid (each must be unique, a generator is listed in this wiki, remove the dashes), region name, x &amp;amp; y positions, datastore (if you are using the prim thing) and internal ip port. EACH OF THESE MUST BE UNIQUE!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once you have 2 or more xml files in the regions folder, you can run a SINGLE COPY of opensim.exe and it will boot all of your sims! If you come across any errors, there is, most likely, an error in the xml files.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Attaching your sim to someone else's grid=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
** [[OpenSim: SampleConfigs]]     (Yin, Bao &amp;amp; Yang config files as samples)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In your bin directory, you will find a file called &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 network_servers_information.xml&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This file has the configuration for telling your sim how to attach to a grid. You can edit this file with any text editor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grid owner should provide you with the following information to configure this file so that you can attach to their grid:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridSendKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridRecvKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserSendKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserRecvKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* AssetServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The keys are used to make sure that you can both know that you are connecting to the correct box at the other end. This offers a level of security.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other file you may have to change is in your bin/Regions directory. This is where your individual region config files are. If you only have one region, it will by default be called:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 default.xml&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This can be edited with any text editor. The grid owner may tell you what X and Y location you can place your sim at (you can't have multiple sims at the smae location on the grid). If so, the fields you will need to change in this file are sim_location_x, and sim_location_y.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A list of public grids that you can attach your sim to are at [[OpenSim:_Grids]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Tips=&lt;br /&gt;
In Windows, to automate startup, you can create a file called StartGrid.BAT:&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PS! Check that you have sleep command installed, I'm unsure if all Windows-versions has that.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This knowledgebase article describes how to add a batch file to startup of Windows (before logon).&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/ http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note that you have to start all applications and answer the configuration questions once before adding it to any startup.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
If you start the server before logon then there will be no window to close if you want to shut down the server, so you can create a &amp;quot;StopGrid.BAT&amp;quot; with:&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /F /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Do they have to be shut down in any particular order?''&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration</id>
		<title>Configuration</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration"/>
				<updated>2007-09-27T13:55:49Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Grid mode */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;It is recommended that you first get OpenSim running in standalone mode, before you attempt to connect it to a grid, either your own grid or a public grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator actually consists of four services, known as UGAS which stand for User, Grid, Asset &amp;amp; Simulator. They are started in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running in its default standalone mode has all the services self-contained, but they are very modest. This means any first/last/password works. It also means inventory is all local with no region or grid-wide connections.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as a local grid runs all four services on the same computer. Multiple sims can be run, across-region crossing including teleporting and a set of inventory items that are within this local grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as part of a public grid runs only OpenSim.exe and the other three services are running on a server common to many regions. This also means that understanding the needed UUID, X,Y location, server handshake passwords, master avatar first/last/password and a couple of other settings. These are not difficult, but do require a little care in setting up.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Command Line arguments passed to OpenSim.exe=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim.exe responds to various command line arguments. These include &amp;quot;-inifile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-configfile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-gridmode&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-physics&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-config&amp;quot; &amp;amp; &amp;quot;-noverbose&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When starting OpenSim in either Windows or Linux, one can add &amp;quot;-physics=OpenDynamicsEngine&amp;quot; to run the OpenDynamicsEngine instead of basicphysics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most users in standalone mode will not add any command line arguments. For local grid or public grid, the &amp;quot;-gridmode=true&amp;quot; is usually the only argument used. The rest are for more advanced configuration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Standalone mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you start OpenSim in standalone mode, it will ask you several question at the console. The first set of prompts that start with &amp;quot;NETWORK SERVERS INFO&amp;quot;, you can just hit return to accept the defaults if you will be running in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The prompts that start with &amp;quot;DEFAULT REGION CONFIG&amp;quot; are where you need to start paying attention. Some are self-explanatory. Here are explanations for the others:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Location. OpenSim regions can be placed anywhere on a 65536 by 65536 grid. In standalone mode, it is safe to leave these X and Y locations at their defaults.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Filename for local storage. Safe to leave at default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP address; This should always be 0.0.0.0&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP port for incoming UDP client connection. You can make this any port you want, but it is safe to leave at the default 9000.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* External host name. If you will only be attaching to your sim from a SecondLife client on the same machine, you can leave this at the default 127.0.0.1. If you will be wanting to connect to it from a client on another machine, this should be the IP address or hostname of the machine you are running this sim on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To connect to your new sim, start up secondlife with the following command line switches: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:9000/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This assumes you are running the secondlife client on the same box. If you are running it on a separate box, substitute the IP address of your sim machine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To create a user:&lt;br /&gt;
type &amp;quot;create user &amp;lt;first&amp;gt; &amp;lt;last&amp;gt; &amp;lt;password&amp;gt; &amp;lt;x_loc&amp;gt; &amp;lt;y_loc&amp;gt;&amp;quot; in the server console&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Grid mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You want to run your own grid. Great! Assuming that you already got your sim running in standalone mode, here is what you need to do:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Current builds of OpenSim grid mode are using mysql to store the grid information. You must have this installed and configured if you want to run your own grid. See [[mysql-config]] for more information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The servers should be started in a certain order. UGAS: UserServer, GridServer, AssetServer, Sim. These are all found in the bin directory. In windows, you can just double-click on the executables to start them. In linux, you will probably have to start them with mono. The executable names are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Start the UserServer. If you will be running the GridServer on the same box, hit enter to accept the defaults, until  it gives you the prompt &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenUser#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the main prompt for the user server. If you will be running the GridServer on another box, change the Default Grid Server URI as appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Start the GridServer. Again, you can hit return at all the prompts if you are running them all on the same machine. If not, change the URIs for the Asset Server and User server to point to where you are running them. You will finally get to the console prompt for the GridServer which looks like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenGrid#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Start the AssetServer. This is not used at the current time, so you don't need to start it. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenAsset#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. Start the InventoryServer. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenInventory#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. If you are running all of these servers on the same box, which would be the normal configuration. You should be ready to start up your sim. Since the OpenSim.exe starts up by default in standalone mode, you will need to give it a command line switch to tell it to use gridmode instead:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mono OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With any luck, everything will come up without too many arrors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. Go to the UserServer console, and type 'create user' to create a new avatar. It will prompt you for the name and password, and the X and Y of the sim that should be his home location. Use 1000 and 1000, or wherever you told your sim to live when you brought it up in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the console of any of these servers, you should be able to type 'help' to get a list of commands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should now be able to connect to your new grid with your secondlife client. You need to tell your client to point at the UserServer rather than direclty at the sim, though:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 secondlife -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:8002/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8002 is the default port for the UserServer, and that IP address should be changed to the server you are running the UserServer on, if they are not all on the same box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Happy OpenSimming!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Technical Addendum ===&lt;br /&gt;
For running multiple regions on the same box, you simply make multiple copies of the 'default.xml' file inside the /bin/regions/ directory. Name them anything you want (I name mine x.y.xml, where x znd y are the grid coords)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Open each xml file and edit the uuid (each must be unique, a generator is listed in this wiki, remove the dashes), region name, x &amp;amp; y positions, datastore (if you are using the prim thing) and internal ip port. EACH OF THESE MUST BE UNIQUE!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once you have 2 or more xml files in the regions folder, you can run a SINGLE COPY of opensim.exe and it will boot all of your sims! If you come across any errors, there is, most likely, an error in the xml files.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Attaching your sim to someone else's grid=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
** [[OpenSim: SampleConfigs]]     (Yin, Bao &amp;amp; Yang config files as samples)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In your bin directory, you will find a file called &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 network_servers_information.xml&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This file has the configuration for telling your sim how to attach to a grid. You can edit this file with any text editor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grid owner should provide you with the following information to configure this file so that you can attach to their grid:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridSendKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridRecvKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserSendKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserRecvKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* AssetServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The keys are used to make sure that you can both know that you are connecting to the correct box at the other end. This offers a level of security.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other file you may have to change is in your bin/Regions directory. This is where your individual region config files are. If you only have one region, it will by default be called:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 default.xml&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This can be edited with any text editor. The grid owner may tell you what X and Y location you can place your sim at (you can't have multiple sims at the smae location on the grid). If so, the fields you will need to change in this file are sim_location_x, and sim_location_y.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A list of public grids that you can attach your sim to are at [[OpenSim:_Grids]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Tips=&lt;br /&gt;
In Windows, to automate startup, you can create a file called StartGrid.BAT:&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PS! Check that you have sleep command installed, I'm unsure if all Windows-versions has that.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This knowledgebase article describes how to add a batch file to startup of Windows (before logon).&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/ http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note that you have to start all applications and answer the configuration questions once before adding it to any startup.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
If you start the server before logon then there will be no window to close if you want to shut down the server, so you can create a &amp;quot;StopGrid.BAT&amp;quot; with:&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /F /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Do they have to be shut down in any particular order?''&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration</id>
		<title>Configuration</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuration"/>
				<updated>2007-09-27T13:55:12Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* Grid mode */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;It is recommended that you first get OpenSim running in standalone mode, before you attempt to connect it to a grid, either your own grid or a public grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator actually consists of four services, known as UGAS which stand for User, Grid, Asset &amp;amp; Simulator. They are started in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running in its default standalone mode has all the services self-contained, but they are very modest. This means any first/last/password works. It also means inventory is all local with no region or grid-wide connections.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as a local grid runs all four services on the same computer. Multiple sims can be run, across-region crossing including teleporting and a set of inventory items that are within this local grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simulator running as part of a public grid runs only OpenSim.exe and the other three services are running on a server common to many regions. This also means that understanding the needed UUID, X,Y location, server handshake passwords, master avatar first/last/password and a couple of other settings. These are not difficult, but do require a little care in setting up.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Command Line arguments passed to OpenSim.exe=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim.exe responds to various command line arguments. These include &amp;quot;-inifile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-configfile&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-gridmode&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-physics&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-config&amp;quot; &amp;amp; &amp;quot;-noverbose&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When starting OpenSim in either Windows or Linux, one can add &amp;quot;-physics=OpenDynamicsEngine&amp;quot; to run the OpenDynamicsEngine instead of basicphysics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most users in standalone mode will not add any command line arguments. For local grid or public grid, the &amp;quot;-gridmode=true&amp;quot; is usually the only argument used. The rest are for more advanced configuration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Standalone mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you start OpenSim in standalone mode, it will ask you several question at the console. The first set of prompts that start with &amp;quot;NETWORK SERVERS INFO&amp;quot;, you can just hit return to accept the defaults if you will be running in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The prompts that start with &amp;quot;DEFAULT REGION CONFIG&amp;quot; are where you need to start paying attention. Some are self-explanatory. Here are explanations for the others:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Grid Location. OpenSim regions can be placed anywhere on a 65536 by 65536 grid. In standalone mode, it is safe to leave these X and Y locations at their defaults.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Filename for local storage. Safe to leave at default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP address; This should always be 0.0.0.0&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Internal IP port for incoming UDP client connection. You can make this any port you want, but it is safe to leave at the default 9000.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* External host name. If you will only be attaching to your sim from a SecondLife client on the same machine, you can leave this at the default 127.0.0.1. If you will be wanting to connect to it from a client on another machine, this should be the IP address or hostname of the machine you are running this sim on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To connect to your new sim, start up secondlife with the following command line switches: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:9000/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This assumes you are running the secondlife client on the same box. If you are running it on a separate box, substitute the IP address of your sim machine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To create a user:&lt;br /&gt;
type &amp;quot;create user &amp;lt;first&amp;gt; &amp;lt;last&amp;gt; &amp;lt;password&amp;gt; &amp;lt;x_loc&amp;gt; &amp;lt;y_loc&amp;gt;&amp;quot; in the server console&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Grid mode=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You want to run your own grid. Great! Assuming that you already got your sim running in standalone mode, here is what you need to do:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Current builds of OpenSim grid mode are using mysql to store the grid information. You must have this installed and configured if you want to run your own grid. See [[mysql-config]] for more information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The servers should be started in a certain order. UGAS: UserServer, GridServer, AssetServer, Sim. These are all found in the bin directory. In windows, you can just double-click on the executables to start them. In linux, you will probably have to start them with mono. The executable names are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Start the UserServer. If you will be running the GridServer on the same box, hit enter to accept the defaults, until  it gives you the prompt &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenUser#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the main prompt for the user server. If you will be running the GridServer on another box, change the Default Grid Server URI as appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Start the GridServer. Again, you can hit return at all the prompts if you are running them all on the same machine. If not, change the URIs for the Asset Server and User server to point to where you are running them. You will finally get to the console prompt for the GridServer which looks like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenGrid#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Start the AssetServer. This is not used at the current time, so you don't need to start it. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenAsset#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. Start the InventoryServer. The console prompt for this server will be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenInventory#&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If you are running all of these servers on the same box, which would be the normal configuration. You should be ready to start up your sim. Since the OpenSim.exe starts up by default in standalone mode, you will need to give it a command line switch to tell it to use gridmode instead:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mono OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With any luck, everything will come up without too many arrors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. Go to the UserServer console, and type 'create user' to create a new avatar. It will prompt you for the name and password, and the X and Y of the sim that should be his home location. Use 1000 and 1000, or wherever you told your sim to live when you brought it up in standalone mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the console of any of these servers, you should be able to type 'help' to get a list of commands.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You should now be able to connect to your new grid with your secondlife client. You need to tell your client to point at the UserServer rather than direclty at the sim, though:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 secondlife -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:8002/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8002 is the default port for the UserServer, and that IP address should be changed to the server you are running the UserServer on, if they are not all on the same box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Happy OpenSimming!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Technical Addendum ===&lt;br /&gt;
For running multiple regions on the same box, you simply make multiple copies of the 'default.xml' file inside the /bin/regions/ directory. Name them anything you want (I name mine x.y.xml, where x znd y are the grid coords)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Open each xml file and edit the uuid (each must be unique, a generator is listed in this wiki, remove the dashes), region name, x &amp;amp; y positions, datastore (if you are using the prim thing) and internal ip port. EACH OF THESE MUST BE UNIQUE!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once you have 2 or more xml files in the regions folder, you can run a SINGLE COPY of opensim.exe and it will boot all of your sims! If you come across any errors, there is, most likely, an error in the xml files.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Attaching your sim to someone else's grid=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
** [[OpenSim: SampleConfigs]]     (Yin, Bao &amp;amp; Yang config files as samples)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In your bin directory, you will find a file called &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 network_servers_information.xml&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This file has the configuration for telling your sim how to attach to a grid. You can edit this file with any text editor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grid owner should provide you with the following information to configure this file so that you can attach to their grid:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridSendKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* GridRecvKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserSendKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* UserRecvKey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* AssetServerURL&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The keys are used to make sure that you can both know that you are connecting to the correct box at the other end. This offers a level of security.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other file you may have to change is in your bin/Regions directory. This is where your individual region config files are. If you only have one region, it will by default be called:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 default.xml&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This can be edited with any text editor. The grid owner may tell you what X and Y location you can place your sim at (you can't have multiple sims at the smae location on the grid). If so, the fields you will need to change in this file are sim_location_x, and sim_location_y.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A list of public grids that you can attach your sim to are at [[OpenSim:_Grids]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Tips=&lt;br /&gt;
In Windows, to automate startup, you can create a file called StartGrid.BAT:&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.GridServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer.exe&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 start OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PS! Check that you have sleep command installed, I'm unsure if all Windows-versions has that.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This knowledgebase article describes how to add a batch file to startup of Windows (before logon).&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/ http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q243486/]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note that you have to start all applications and answer the configuration questions once before adding it to any startup.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
If you start the server before logon then there will be no window to close if you want to shut down the server, so you can create a &amp;quot;StopGrid.BAT&amp;quot; with:&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 sleep 3&lt;br /&gt;
 taskkill /F /FI &amp;quot;IMAGENAME eq OpenSim.*&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Do they have to be shut down in any particular order?''&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page</id>
		<title>Main Page</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page"/>
				<updated>2007-09-23T02:18:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Tleiades: /* OpenSim Development */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:opensim_avatar.png|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is a BSD Licensed Open Source project to develop a functioning virtual worlds server platform capable of supporting multiple clients and servers in a heterogeneous grid structure.  OpenSim is written in C#, and can run under [http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page Mono] or the Microsoft .NET runtimes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Latest News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== OpenSim 0.4 Released! ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The OpenSim team is happy to announce the first alpha release of OpenSim, version 0.4.  This release focuses on stand alone mode (with one or more regions).  Some stuff works, a lot doesn't.  If it breaks, you get to keep '''both''' pieces.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stuff that works:&lt;br /&gt;
* standalone mode with one or more regions&lt;br /&gt;
* basic physics (no object collisions)&lt;br /&gt;
* persistence of users, prims, assets, and inventory via sqlite&lt;br /&gt;
* basic building, custom texture uploads&lt;br /&gt;
* avatar editing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More advanced physics, in world scripting, grid mode, and support for other database backends are not supported in this release, though they may work from time to time before crashing with an earth shattering kaboom!  All of these are under active development, and are being worked on for the 0.5 release.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Source distributions in both .tar.gz and .zip can be found at the [http://dist.opensimulator.org/ OpenSim Downloads site].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Getting Started with OpenSim ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Install]] (How to install the simulator software)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Configuration]] (How to configure the simulator for various modes)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Network settings]] (How to setup the network for the simulator)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Running]] (How to run standalone, local grid &amp;amp; public grid modes, and server side commands)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Connecting]] (How to connect to an OpenSim server)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[FAQ]] (A set of Frequently Asked Questions)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== OpenSim Development ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Development Team|OpenSim Team]] is currently working towards the 0.5 release of OpenSim.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Recent Changes'''&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;rss&amp;gt;http://cia.vc/stats/project/opensim/.rss|max=5|title=none&amp;lt;/rss&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Handy Documentation'''&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Testing]] (What is tested)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: TechRef]] (A technical description of the simulator operation)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Grids]]   (Known Public grids currently available)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.4 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Opensim: 0.5 Release Target Discussion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Class Diagrams]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Scripting]] (How to use scripts and what limitations apply)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[PhysicsEngines]]   (Options for physics engines in OpenSim)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[MonoSqlite]] (How the database model currently works)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[llFunction implementation status]] (What LSL commands has been implemented)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine]] (How the ScriptEngine looks internally)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[RegionModules]] (The various modules that are used in the RegionServer and how to write new ones)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Screenshots]] Various OpenSim Screenshots&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenSim: Threading strategy]] How threading is implemented and handled&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Participating in the OpenSim Community ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
OpenSim is an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source open source] project. This means that it is developed by anyone who wants to participate. This could be you!  We welcome testers and developers alike.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you ''need help'' or ''want to help'' the best way to get in touch is IRC (chat network). There is a lot of activity there every day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Additionally, there are at least two public grids and several standalone arrays running 24/7. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
deepgrid - www.deepgrid.com, Create an account at no charge and invoke the sl client with &amp;quot;-loginuri http://user.deepgrid.com:8002&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
osgrid - www.osgrid.org, Create an account at no charge and invoke the sl client with &amp;quot;=loginuri http://osgrid.org:8002&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Zion - Standalone array. &amp;quot;-loginuri http://ruth.petitbe.be:9000/&amp;quot;, use &amp;quot;Testa User&amp;quot; through &amp;quot;Testz User&amp;quot;, password &amp;quot;test&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apex - Standalone array. &amp;quot;-loginuri http://osl.apex-broadband.com:9000&amp;quot;, use &amp;quot;Testa User&amp;quot; through &amp;quot;Testz User&amp;quot;, password &amp;quot;test&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== IRC ===&lt;br /&gt;
* IRC on EFNet, channel #OpenSim. Download an IRC client like [http://www.xchat.org/ X-Chat] and go to EFNet (server irc.efnet.net), channel #OpenSim. If you already have an IRC client installed you can just follow [irc://irc.efnet.org/OpenSim this link].&lt;br /&gt;
=== Email ===&lt;br /&gt;
There are a number of mailing lists of interest to OpenSim users&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users opensim-users] - a user support forum for OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev opensim-dev] - development discussion of OpenSim&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-commits opensim-commits] - an email list for svn commits&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Source Code ===&lt;br /&gt;
* You can browse the source code for opensim at [http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi OpenSim SVN browser]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Anon Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co http://opensimulator.org/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Developer Checkout'''&lt;br /&gt;
 svn co svn+ssh://USERNAME@opensimulator.org/var/svn/opensim/trunk&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bugs ===&lt;br /&gt;
* You can report bugs at the [http://bug.opensecondlife.org/ Mantis opensim bug tracker]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tleiades</name></author>	</entry>

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