http://opensimulator.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Sheera+KhanOpenSimulator - User contributions [en]2026-05-11T05:55:36ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.19.9http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2020-01-07Chat log from the meeting on 2020-01-072020-01-07T21:02:51Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[10:53] Kayaker Magic: Ubit: There was a guy who came to this meeting who had a list of syntax issues he had seen wity YEngine. Or did he create a mantis? Email? <br>[10:53] ..."</p>
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<div>[10:53] Kayaker Magic: Ubit: There was a guy who came to this meeting who had a list of syntax issues he had seen wity YEngine. Or did he create a mantis? Email?<br />
<br>[10:53] Kayaker Magic: You recall who that was?<br />
<br>[10:53] Ubit Umarov: don't remember that :(<br />
<br>[10:54] Kayaker Magic: He had crazy things like a script with no default state, and it sill ran in XEngine.<br />
<br>[10:54] Ubit Umarov: yes X could do odd things<br />
<br>[10:54] Ubit Umarov: still can :)<br />
<br>[10:55] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone.<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Well I have some interesting news about OpenSim:<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002 listening<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Kitely has decided to finally upgrade to 0.9.1<br />
<br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: I suggested that they add a button to their WEB page to switch between YEngine and XEngine.<br />
<br>[11:03] Ubit Umarov: and bullet/ubode :)<br />
<br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: I sold them so well on the benifits of YEngine they are talking about only offering YEngine with 0.9 on Kitely!<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit Umarov: well will be a pain migration for them<br />
<br>[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, I just assumed there would be a ubODE button also, they have one for Bullet/ODE now.<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit Umarov: 2 old.. and they do have a lot of own code<br />
<br>[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but they had another project fail on them and have some time to do the OpenSim merge now.<br />
<br>[11:05] Ubit Umarov: i was thinking exactly about that fail<br />
<br>[11:05] Kayaker Magic: I'm on the beta test of that other project and can't talk about it....<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit Umarov: already did :p<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The log of the recent meeting says that the Kitley code has around 600 patches.<br />
<br>[11:07] Kayaker Magic: So if they do use only YEngine, they will get a lot of old scripts with XEngine syntax issues. I'm looking for a list of those.<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit Umarov: just ask her on IM so it is not forgotten<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit Umarov: even with just X<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit Umarov: a lot changed<br />
<br>[11:07] Kayaker Magic: There was a guy here several months ago who had a list of XEngine things that got syntax errors in YEngine, anyone recall who that was?<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: so andrew what is new on opensim ?<br />
<br>[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Shouldn't we be asking you, Ubit?<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was going to mention we have our first new bit of news for this year. Someone named Ubit just announced that there is a new release of the Open Simulator software. Version 0.9.1.1 is now available.<br />
<br>[11:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats the news on BoM viewers?<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: /clap<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: ahh emails work ( even with typos )<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: dayturn suports it, only on 0.9.1.x<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What is the news Arielle that has not been covered by HGB? :-)<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: i think<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: cool VL is as before<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only on 0.9.1?<br />
<br>[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i know there is work going on with FS Opensim<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: 1.x<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: seems cool vl kinda seems to work on old versions by miracle<br />
<br>[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: can dayturn jump from .9.1 to .9.0.x?<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: can't tell if on all cases<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it has the same jump code as FS<br />
<br>[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what happens to a BoM avatar?<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: Beq from FS is working on a more stable solution<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: but still work in progress :(<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: she has been here testing ( just yesterday )<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: i fire up a old 0.8 to see things region side<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: don't know about other viewers<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i been testing a bit with ai and may have seen a weird issue<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: fs is still not good<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have been testing between OS versions, but obviously it will not come out correct in every case<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well it wasnt the beta fs<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: yesterday Beq had a improvement, but still only on her own local build<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but nobody is crashing as far as I can test<br />
<br>[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but my FS version saw him and afterward i jumped to Lbsa and a number of avatars there had no hands<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: each opensim version misbehaves its own way on that<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: if gets some BOM data<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: since we to have large scope try{} catch things, may not actually crash<br />
<br>[11:18] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: was there a change a while ago as to how the opensim code deals with viewers caches?<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: if you say so<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thought i had heard something about that though i didnt understand it all<br />
<br>[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but gist of it being that the cache can have a bearing on how others see an avatar?<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: 911 has some mitigation for those missing prims/terrain patchs<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: all data points to weak GPUs/CPUs issues<br />
<br>[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats considered weak?<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: 9fps was a case<br />
<br>[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Arielle: The server enables viewer-side-caching of objects, so the second time you visit a region things rez faster.<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: viewer object cache put a high demand on viewers<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: with normal updates, viewer is told about hmmm 5 or so objects per udp packet<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so that would only affect what i see?<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: with cache it is told about 70 or so per udp packet<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: that it will need to read from disk etc etc<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and when you say objects, does that mean avatar related objects or just region ones?<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: some prims that are static<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My nVidia 1050 must be weak. I'm barely getting 9fps.<br />
<br>[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so not avatar attachments?<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: ( well that means most prims on a region )<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you dial everything to max, you will get 9fps with just about any card<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: no, no point on caching things that change like attachments<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't dial things to max because my frame rates generally suck.<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: ive 60 here with all maxed<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'll review them again and experiment. Perhaps there is one (or two) settings that affect the fps number more than others.<br />
<br>[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: advanced lighting model is not needed in opensim?<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most avatars wear the same attachments from session to session, so they can easily benefit from caching<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: ( except deepth thing.. hate that )<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I used to get good frame rates on an older 8650(??) card.<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: well they are not cached<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ALM is needed for many scenes to render as the creator intended also for opensim<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sames as in SL<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: neither physics prims, animesh, etc etc<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no "need" for it<br />
<br>[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh ok i thought that utilized the materials thing<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is required for materials<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: you mean before mesh avatars andrew ? :)<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the scene will still render without ALM turned on<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The shaders make a noticable difference but they also affect ones view of the world.<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just looking not so good<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it also has a big impact on fps on weaker GPUs<br />
<br>[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i'm getting around 85 fps here<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well i do limit fps to 60 :)<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually the viewer (FS) should also limit to 60 if they have taken all the SL code<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: i did wait for more feedback on mantis about the missing rendering things<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: the mitigation code did fix at least one case<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It is interesting how a newer CPU, graphics card, and viewer wind up giving me worse frame rates than I used to get.<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: had no more feedback, so did release<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: i had plans to release 911 just after oscc :(<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what is different about 911?<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: ( gezz i should had released it as 0.9.1.2 .. i keep telling 911 that is odd )<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you could dial 911 for emergency<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or it can mean 9/11<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: will Ubit answer?<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well it is a worse reference even<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: its what i said on emails and release notes<br />
<br>[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a reason why we don't have windows version 9<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: some fixes to issues ppl did reported<br />
<br>[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: since we been on about viwers, i'd like to bring up the crashing Lumiya android viewer<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: in particulay "paying users"<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: and the attachments worn are now limited to 38<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: as viewers spec<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: as it is the only viewer capable of it<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: 38 on one point?<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: yes can all be on same point now<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh good<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: one reason to use master again<br />
<br>[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 38 total, but can all be on one point<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: there is an option to change the behaviour of inventory wear command also<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: till now and by default wear a attachment, removes all on that point<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes freaking pain that was!<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: that option allows to replace just the oldest<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not with the add option<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: not a double click<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wear would replace, add would add to the attachment point<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: ( not as wearables do.. that should replace the last worn )<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: but actually did not test the wearables case, just attachments<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: i will add info on that on the release notes<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so what is a double click?<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: wear or add?<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wear<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so that will still strip me?<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you wear all at one point it will<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats how creators do it<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: in s/l and older opensim the double click adds<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: no idea what you are talking about.. but details :p<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course, they don't want you to wear a competitors outfit<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats because you dont wear attachments?<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: i use glasses<br />
<br>[11:38] Kayaker Magic: I read the list of recent changes to OpenSim in the git log, is there a place to read that online?<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so does a doubleclick add still going to strip me?<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does a double click in the offical SL viewer add?<br />
<br>[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it does if it is assigned to a different attachment point<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but Ubit changed the behaviour server side in opensim master a while back<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: ( thats viewer side code.. )<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: usually a creator will attach a right shoe to the right foor attachment point before shipping<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: normally yes but you changed the behaviour<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: well of course osgrid users have this changes for a while<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no Gavin<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but if everything is set to be attached to the right hand as default, it will replace also in SL<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: since osg follows master closer<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: they all putting it on the left hand<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( not sure anyone noticed that new wear option )<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh quite a few did<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
<br>[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i certainly have when i was stripped on a doubleclick add<br />
<br>[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: usually when in public<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: delete all , when they can be 38 is kinda nasty :)<br />
<br>[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: because it is not standard behaviour<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: guess it was.. ages ago<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it was selectable i believe<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: in viewers<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but was removed<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and it became a default add<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: well master dev code is now on 0.9.2.0 Yeti<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ( nothing changed still :) )<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: i have some broken code to commit :p<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: when i do, master will be well +- :)<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: about opensim<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: one should mention the sad issue with Great Canadian Grid<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: and hope it does get back fast<br />
<br>[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: see?<br />
<br>[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: add a hair and it strips me<br />
<br>[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: this is non standard<br />
<br>[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: We're going from snail to Yeti?<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: i must express my dislike to see a comercial grid to ask for donations to fix its poor management<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks wonders how Ubit decides on the names. :)<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Well, you got the attention of all the men here....<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: specially after InWorldZ incident<br />
<br>[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: sure they seen a naked female avi before ;P<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: lol, especially in-world!<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: but well.. lets hope the grid does get back fast, for its users<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just go to LBSA and watch the spectacle when people rezz in. Very bizarre at times<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: Yeti will be a release, one day :)<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Should take that long to get the regions back up and running. If the grid has to replace a control panel system that was used to manage the grid that will probably take longer.<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: 911 is still snail<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so not a Porche<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: it is a snail porche :)<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in Apple we had a Macintosh OS version with codename BHA<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well about gcg i, like many on blogs, seen no reason why users could not be at gcg during xmas and new year<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: but well not going there<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which the real meaning of was "butt head astronomer" referring to Carl Sagan<br />
<br>[11:51] Kayaker Magic: lol<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: just it is another bad thing for the entire opensimulator comunity and trust<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. I was wondering if BHA was some chemical, possibly a preservative in food.<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so how many grids left on .8.2 with kitely switching?<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is DHA<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: guess a lot still<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: May it is BHT<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is there any need left for BoM viewer testing on .8.2 compatibility?<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: but fine.. they soon will just need to use old viewers<br />
<br>[11:52] Kayaker Magic: Butylated HydroxyAnisole<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: bless you, Kayaker. ;)<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we must stop using all these TLAs<br />
<br>[11:53] Kayaker Magic: British Hospitality Association<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: BOM thing was the last compatibilty with old viewers i told about viewer devs<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: with old regions i mean ( ie 0.8 and early 0.9 )<br />
<br>[11:54] Kayaker Magic: BOM Bill Of Materials<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: That's my initial reaction to those initials as I deal with those on a regular basis.<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: pure suport of last opensim version is not garanted on next viewer releases<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: so we can't go on thinking about older opensim versions<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: and they can use viewers as old as they are<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't checked recently if there is a new FS viewer for Linux available that supports BOM.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: FS suports BOM at SL :p<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: linux problem is vivox<br />
<br>[11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: would be nice though if you could fix whatever is crashing Lumiya<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, there is a 6.3.2 release of FS now available for Linux.<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: vivox will kill the old servers one day<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's hope the people working on EchoGate (IIRC), make good progress quickly so that Vivox can become a thing of the past.<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is more like they will upgrade them<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: mumble is old option<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: but a big pain<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but IMA is working on that<br />
<br>[11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: how many actually even use voice?<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: i was promissed a region side donation a year or more ago<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: nothing so far<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ( updated mumble module i mean )<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, I often use voice inworld.<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in SL a LOT<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not so many in opensim<br />
<br>[12:00] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: the few times i have activated it i quickly turn it off<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a group of people I meet with semi regularly. They always use voice chat.<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: i had to use it at oscc :)<br />
<br>[12:00] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: open mike's, squalling kids, blaring backround music<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, yup. That's life for you. :)<br />
<br>[12:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and people i can either not quite hear or an accent i cant make out<br />
<br>[12:01] Kayaker Magic: There is the Senchai library reading stories in SL and Kitely. I find vivox very reliable in Kitely, not so reliable in other OpenSim places....<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: One of the people in the group has some dogs that are often heard barking in the background.<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: voice may not work so good with mixed language audiences<br />
<br>[12:02] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no they havent invented voice translators yet<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Almost two weeks ago I had trouble with voice in SL while I was talking with someone I know.<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have, but they don't work so good<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: hmm a thing i noticed with recent viewers<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: they to intentionally crash if they get wrong textures on prims<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to develop a good language model for dictation usually takes 5-10 years for any given language<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and even then it tends to be domain specific<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: that may mean that thing some call BOM<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: ie direct apply a baked texture UUID on a mesh face<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: baked textures are not like normal textures !!<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: they can have more components.. ( 5)<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: and alpha component may not be alpha at all<br />
<br>[12:05] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i wonder how many will even use it<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how did you obtain the baked texture you applied to the mesh surface?<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: i do occasionaly put them on prim faces for debug and no big deal<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because you are not supposed to be able to do that<br />
<br>[12:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: only in s/l<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: but did got some of those crashes on new viewers<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: some people took our NPCs code and use it to do something they call BOM<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you could you can just take a mesh avatar, walk up to somone with a fancy set of textures and apply the bake to your own avatar<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: some opensim forks have script functions to do that<br />
<br>[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: there is an ossl one for that<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: i once tried to warn that fork dev... was kinda offended.. they all know better, of course<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it sure sucks for creators<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: who want to sell their creations<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: ewll here stays the warning.. Baked textures ARE not Normal prim/mesh textures<br />
<br>[12:09] Kayaker Magic: The Ruth/Roth team is planning on a new mesh avatar that uses BOM<br />
<br>[12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: already have them in s/l<br />
<br>[12:09] Kayaker Magic: BOM makes the "transparency HUD" unnecessary.<br />
<br>[12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well not exactly<br />
<br>[12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i have found occasions where it still would be nice<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: you will need them for mesh clothes<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: mesh clothes never follow the avatar deformation correctly<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: so you need to hide the body<br />
<br>[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what would be nice though is that mesh size code that Qarl made<br />
<br>[12:11] Kayaker Magic: BOM has something like the alpha layer you use with classic avatars.<br />
<br>[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: think inworldz used it<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that train has long since left the station Arielle<br />
<br>[12:12] Kayaker Magic: So clothing desiners can supply alphas.<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: system avatars are a lot more powerful than crap mesh ones<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: have a more deformation options, motors.. etc<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: morphing..<br />
<br>[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well would be nice if someone updated the sytem avatars<br />
<br>[12:12] Kayaker Magic: I spent a lot of time developing an improved alpha hud for sale on Kitely, now it is obsolete.... I may try to convert it into a tool for making alpha layers for BOM<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: someone...<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: ll should had done that instead of crap mesh avatars<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do you have any idea of the effort that someone would have to put in?<br />
<br>[12:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: cant use the ruth/roth ones?<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: less than the effort they ended up having on mesh avatars<br />
<br>[12:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: why not?<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because there is no support for morph targets for it<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: every decent avatar system, including the existing SL avatar, has morph targets<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you create a proper looking variety of avatar shapes and faces with deformation bones<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why most mesh avatars looks like lifeless statues<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: BOM is just a return to the sys avatars better wearables system<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[12:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well then what about modifying the female system avatar??<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: damm stupid onion avatars guess<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same effort Arielle<br />
<br>[12:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: the male ones not too bad<br />
<br>[12:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: the female ones suck<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you change the underlying mesh, you have to redo all the existing morph targets, and weighting and test it and test it and test and test it......<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: hmm about BOM<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: it is not about using old wearables !!<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: those can work fine<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: but better new ones<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: nails on old skins will not work well for example<br />
<br>[12:18] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: there is fixes on the MP in s/l<br />
<br>[12:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: finger and toe nails<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: and at SL new ones can use the improved 1024 px resolution<br />
<br>[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: attachments<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you usually don't have to rig or deform a nail<br />
<br>[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: We have been going for almost an hour and a half. I just had a phone call and will be getting another one in a couple of minutes. I need to get going.<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: here.. well depends on viewer devs :p<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it be a simple attachment<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: idea of bom is to reduce data<br />
<br>[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: If you want to continue the discussions feel free to do so. Thank you all for coming and see you next week.<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: not add more attachments to fix it :p<br />
<br>[[12:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i suspect BoM is not going to make a big difference to people's complexities<br />
<br>[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why not?<br />
<br>[12:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: because i dont think a lot will wind up using it<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: well seems all are using it<br />
<br>[12:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: where?<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: and making things for it<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: sl<br />
<br>[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't even have the complexity code, so I could not care less<br />
<br>[12:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i dont see it in the clubs i go to<br />
<br>[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it takes time to develop for BOM<br />
<br>[12:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: BoM still just looks like a painted on clothing<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: and for users to pay for new things<br />
<br>[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus many established SL devlopers have an existing base to defend<br />
<br>[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they may not necessaruily support it immdiately<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: a lot of things on face is just painted things<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: like lips blablabla<br />
<br>[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: just that is a big saving<br />
<br>[12:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i been able to do BoM here in opensim for 4 years or more but really only played with it a couple times<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: and on clothes you can wear skin tight shirts etc<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: under mesh things<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: so identical visual.. less data<br />
<br>[12:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well that helps<br />
<br>[12:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but it is only devs that care about data<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: see the video on marias announce of dayturn<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: yes it is about getting same visual effect with less data<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: and resources<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: build games and this is ALL about that<br />
<br>[12:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thing is that mesh was supposed to be better for the sertvers<br />
<br>[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: someone made a video of it testing it in French on a French Windows 10<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: IT IS NOT<br />
<br>[12:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: now we have it and they still complaining<br />
<br>[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I realized the French localization was significantly lacking, haha<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: mesh are not better than prims on servers<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: ( and there is no mesh without a suport prim )<br />
<br>[12:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats what the developers said when they wanted to bring mesh in<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: NO<br />
<br>[12:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes, i remember it distinctly<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: they said better visual shapes<br />
<br>[12:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: said the load would be more on the users machine<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: mesh are only about more complex shapes<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: like sculpts where before<br />
<br>[12:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh and mesh was going to be lighter then sculpts<br />
<br>[12:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i remember that too<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: BS<br />
<br>[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it usually is<br />
<br>[12:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well Ubit like it or not, thats what was being claimed at the time<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: BS :p<br />
<br>[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: far fewer polys to render for the same result with mesh<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: sculpts are usually smaller<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: no<br />
<br>[12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes Ubit<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: no<br />
<br>[12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pull a sculpt into a modeller and be shocked<br />
<br>[12:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: shrugs, i been sitting in these meetings for years. I know what i heard<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: i made scuplt to mesh code<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: several times<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: No<br />
<br>[12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[12:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ^^\<br />
<br>[12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pull a sculpt into Zbrush or DAZ Hexagon<br />
<br>[12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it royally sucks<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: just making them is a pain<br />
<br>[12:32] Kayaker Magic: It is POSSIBLE to make mesh with better visual look and less resources. Not all designers succeed in doing that.<br />
<br>[12:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes the learning curve for quality mesh is much steeper then they let on<br />
<br>[12:34] Ubit Umarov: and on this we are assuming good creators<br />
<br>[12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: scultped panel plants that have like 6 visible faces can be made with 6 polys in mesh, but they usually have 1024 polys in a sculpt, where 1024 - 6 are hidden<br />
<br>[12:34] Ubit Umarov: anyone can make a crap sculpt<br />
<br>[12:34] Ubit Umarov: and a worse mesh :p<br />
<br>[12:34] Kayaker Magic: And the way LL implemented mesh avatars was a hack that uses all the resources of the old system PLUS the new mesh body on top.<br />
<br>[12:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: in s/l they should charge higher rates for bigger textures<br />
<br>[12:35] Kayaker Magic: That did not decrease the load on the system....<br />
<br>[12:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh ok that makes sense<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: mesh avatars are ton of hacks on top of hacks<br />
<br>[12:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: wear full system avatar and still put mesh body on top<br />
<br>[12:36] Ubit Umarov: BOM is just another hack<br />
<br>[12:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the system avatar is just a blip compared to most worn meshes<br />
<br>[12:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but at least mesh hair is a lot lighter<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: hair is always heavy<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: to look natural<br />
<br>[12:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: fiber mesh<br />
<br>[12:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is that like flexi's?<br />
<br>[12:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: we need flexi mesh<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: kitely told that upgrade on meetings?<br />
<br>[12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Zbrush introduced fiber mesh some yars ago and it immediately became the standard to make hair<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: to 0.9.x i mean<br />
<br>[12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only you had to use millions of them to look natural<br />
<br>[12:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ahh<br />
<br>[12:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I sell a cop stache in SL made with fiber mesh<br />
<br>[12:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it only cover the under the nose area, still you have to wear 2 for it to look reasonable<br />
<br>[12:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so the fiber isnt a flexi sort of thing?<br />
<br>[12:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: more like strands?<br />
<br>[12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can rig it<br />
<br>[12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but<br />
<br>[12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ....<br />
<br>[12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like strands<br />
<br>[12:41] Kayaker Magic: I'm thinking a combination of rigging and animesh could make nice hair....<br />
<br>[12:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: dont they have some of that now?<br />
<br>[12:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i have hair in s/l that has some small movement<br />
<br>[12:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but is hard to see<br />
<br>[12:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: rigged but not animesh<br />
<br>[12:43] Ubit Umarov: yeah no point on animesh<br />
<br>[12:44] Ubit Umarov: gravity, wind,, and colisions with own body at least<br />
<br>[12:44] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you want your hair to freak out, it would be good to animate it different from the avatar<br />
<br>[12:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or be blown by the wind<br />
<br>[12:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or something<br />
<br>[12:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah!<br />
<br>[12:45] Ubit Umarov: linden trees still move with wind on dayturn ?<br />
<br>[12:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they might<br />
<br>[12:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never tested it<br />
<br>[12:46] Ubit Umarov: think it is a option or was on fs<br />
<br>[12:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[12:46] Ubit Umarov: and region needs to have wind active<br />
<br>[12:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it is not standard SL functionality, the answer is no<br />
<br>[12:47] Ubit Umarov: no idea why ll killed those<br />
<br>[12:47] Ubit Umarov: damm silly<br />
<br>[12:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn has very little FS code in it<br />
<br>[12:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: render cost<br />
<br>[12:48] Ubit Umarov: yeah byt costs 20 bytes to send one<br />
<br>[12:48] Ubit Umarov: and some do look good<br />
<br>[12:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you start to have a large number of moving tris in a scene, it gets very costly to render<br />
<br>[12:48] Ubit Umarov: yeap ppl place mesh trees instead<br />
<br>[12:48] Ubit Umarov: no gain<br />
<br>[12:49] Kayaker Magic: One day I will build animesh trees....<br />
<br>[12:49] Ubit Umarov: and a full tree is 20 bytes on net :)<br />
<br>[12:49] Ubit Umarov: +-<br />
<br>[12:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus texture(s)<br />
<br>[12:49] Ubit Umarov: nopes<br />
<br>[12:49] Ubit Umarov: they have them<br />
<br>[12:50] Ubit Umarov: i think ??<br />
<br>[12:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they?<br />
<br>[12:50] Ubit Umarov: the limited set of trees we have<br />
<br>[12:50] Kayaker Magic: Probably on SL by merchants who are afraid to bring them out to the Wild West of OpenSim<br />
<br>[12:50] Ubit Umarov: there is not texture entry for them<br />
<br>[12:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you look at the content of the viewer cache of a fresh region with only systme trees, the textures are in the cache<br />
<br>[12:51] Ubit Umarov: yes in cache<br />
<br>[12:51] Ubit Umarov: not on wire<br />
<br>[12:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it obviously gets the textures from somewhere<br />
<br>[12:52] Ubit Umarov: of course<br />
<br>[12:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might be in the viewer<br />
<br>[12:52] Ubit Umarov: just not wire<br />
<br>[12:52] Ubit Umarov: so light on net<br />
<br>[12:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so there is a render cost for those too<br />
<br>[12:52] Ubit Umarov: no<br />
<br>[12:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and when it moves it increases dramatically when you have many<br />
<br>[12:53] Ubit Umarov: extra cost relative to a mesh tree with similar look is the generator code<br />
<br>[12:53] Ubit Umarov: ONCE<br />
<br>[12:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not if they move randomly per frame<br />
<br>[12:53] Ubit Umarov: all games have similar things also<br />
<br>[12:53] Ubit Umarov: ppl made trees out of flexies<br />
<br>[12:54] Ubit Umarov: or animate them with scripts<br />
<br>[12:54] Ubit Umarov: bc a still tree is ugly<br />
<br>[12:55] Kayaker Magic: Don't flexies and animesh only move on the viewer? Not on the server?<br />
<br>[12:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[12:55] Ubit Umarov: yes but where talking about costs on viewer<br />
<br>[12:55] Kayaker Magic: Ah<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2020-01-07T21:01:56Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (19.00 UTC if grid time is PST or 18:00 UTC if it is PDT) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2020-01-07]]<br />
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* meeting on 2019-12-31 will be cancelled due to new years eve - happy new year everyone<br />
* meeting on 2019-12-24 will be cancelled due to christmas eve - merry christmas everyone<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-17]]<br />
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<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
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'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-12-17Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-172019-12-17T20:46:06Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:11] Kayaker Magic: I have a question about region caching: It only works for objects in the region? Why not terrain patches? <br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: ask ll kayaker <br>[1..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:11] Kayaker Magic: I have a question about region caching: It only works for objects in the region? Why not terrain patches?<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: ask ll kayaker<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It is 10 past now. Looks like it will be just us today. As mentioned last week this will be the last meeting of 2019 due to the holidays. The next meeting will be on January 7 of next year.<br />
<br>[11:11] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: makes note:<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: i only activated something viewers had for years and we ignored<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: the way they cache things guess land patchs don't matter much on their 256m regions<br />
<br>[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Gavin: Do you have a feel for what it is caching? Whole objects? All assets in the region? Textures?<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: see the cache is raw lludp packets<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: the object opes<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: just the contents of compressed Updates packets ( and not normal update packets )<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: all the decode and work to convert to rendering things will happen later<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: just plain network trafic saving<br />
<br>[11:15] Kayaker Magic: and terrain is not sent with similar network traffic?<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: don't think they care about the 256 land patchs their regions have<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when you say terrain patches, do you mean the terrain geometry for a region patch (4x4m)?<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: no<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: terrain is 16x16m units == patches<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: each compressed using DCTs<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: a simplified jpeg<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was asking about the geometry<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: viewer side its same<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: viewers have a list of 16x16m things<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: each counts as a object on the viewer rendering stats<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the terrain expands to a pretty large structure, so if you were to cache that for every region passed through it would fill the cache pretty fast<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: ( they do apply tesselation on top of that..<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: not that big<br />
<br>[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Not on todays hard drives...<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: they get the packet and decode it to 16x16 heights<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was designed for when 1 TB drive cost $3 millon<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: that is the basic object<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: later they do tesselation blabla bla<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: but basic is 16x16m heights<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: and as i said that is a object for it<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: so viewer objects cache is not as effective as it could be<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL is completely rewriting the cache, so they are well aware of it<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: it could be a more prepared object like in rendering mesh format or so<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: i did hear about textures and mesh cache<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: not objects<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: seen a few viewers of their meetings with tpvs<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: like tpvs are not allowed to do releases for SL from 20th to jan 1st<br />
<br>[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Well, a model like the current region cache could add the terrain packets on the way by...<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: the dcts are a bit heavy<br />
<br>[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Heavy?<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: i plane to cache those region side one day also<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: plan<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Difficult algorithm to decode?<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: see fft?<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: its half a fft<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: only cosines are used<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: ( like jpeg )<br />
<br>[11:25] Kayaker Magic: But if you cache the packets, the terrain code to decode them again later already exists.<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: and bad<br />
<br>[11:25] Kayaker Magic: Of course, that is all viewer side code.....<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: does generate a lot of noise on terrain<br />
<br>[11:25] Kayaker Magic: The current system is noisy.<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: any sharp terrain is ugly<br />
<br>[11:26] Kayaker Magic: right.<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: creates lots of noise outside<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: nothing new..<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: is side effect of window<br />
<br>[11:26] Kayaker Magic: Known problem: The terrain you see is not quite where the server thinks it is.<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: on ffts we always reduce that by apply a window funtion<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: like hanning etc etc<br />
<br>[11:27] Kayaker Magic: Unless your terrain is very smooth to start with.<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: yeah<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: but noise is very ugly indead<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: terrain must be smooth<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: you can see it on the base of the peeks i made out there<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: and how far they do extend<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: So the viewer is looking at packets as they go by, and some of them are stored in the region cache, but not all of them.<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Why bother to differentiate?<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: patches are not stored<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: objects, some there is no sense to cache.. they change<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: ( and their position is part of the things stored in cache)<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: so even a position change invalidates that entry<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: again typical SL half thinking<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: but the network side saving is well visible<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: we do see things rez faster<br />
<br>[11:34] Kayaker Magic: I was just imagining terrain patches acting like objects, and imagining them breaking apart and moving in independent 16x16m chunks.<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: no they don't<br />
<br>[11:35] Kayaker Magic: Just in my imagination!<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: bc on top of them there are the terrain textures<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: and those even take in consideration the region global position<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: as you can see on the new warp3d maps<br />
<br>[11:36] Kayaker Magic: They use something like Perlin noise to blend textures together at altitude...<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: thats less that global position<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: so terrain on 2 nearby regions with similar settings does transition smothly<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: we actual have those numbers to help that to happen<br />
<br>[11:38] Kayaker Magic: But the textures are different for each viewer!<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: no they are not<br />
<br>[11:38] Kayaker Magic: They are different every time you log out and back in again!<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: they are assets<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: then you have something wrong somewhere :p<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: terrain textures are normal assets<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: viewers are told about them on region handshake and regionInfo<br />
<br>[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I thought that was a known issue. Looking at the same region with different viewers at the same time shows a slightly different look to the land.<br />
<br>[11:40] Kayaker Magic: Yes, but as altitude changes, two textures are blended together at the transistion, that blending changes every time you log in.<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it does not look exactly the same for any given viewer<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: seen that with some dayturn version only<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: but now its closer to fs<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: the math must be as SL does<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: at least the same on all viewers<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: or results will be dif of course<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: our maps where totally wrong on that<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: a lot better on warp3d now<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: that means how global position is used, how the 4 textures do blend with height etc etc<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: ( and yes some perk noise is added )<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: see warp3d source for details :p<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: i mean our module<br />
<br>[11:44] Kayaker Magic: "the code is the documentation"<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: of course :p<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: if the cpu can read it why can't you??<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the cpu cannot execute a might do statement<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There is 15 minutes remaining before the top of the hour. What did everything think about this years OSCC?<br />
<br>[11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was interested to hear about the SceneGate viewer and Echo Voice.<br />
<br>[11:46] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: Its always nice to hear what people are doing with Opensim, particularly from an education point of view.<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: a bit less All move out of opensim to this great other thing<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but still there<br />
<br>[11:46] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: There seemed to be a fair bit of stuff not really related to Opensim but its was good.<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and fun the one.. we all should move.. the thing is now dead... but we should move<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Gavin: will their work on Echo Voice be usable by all other viewers?<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: you mean mumble<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: (opensim viewers)<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I only noticed that after having bitched about viewer security for an hour, they provided a http link for the viewer download<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:48] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: :)<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will not be usefull at all with age old libs, and no Linux and Mac support<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: i was promised the region side updated mumble module last year<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: now it was renamed and placed on that what was the name thing<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: They talked about replacing the SLVoice module with something that would talk to the actual voice system. It sounds like it would be possible to use Echo Voice with other viewers.<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not if there is no code that supports it<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux and Mac support are on their ToDo list. They are also updating the code to use modern, readily available libraries.<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: they just did some automation of the user side module change<br />
<br>[11:49] Bill Blight: Echo voice is just the old mumble renamed<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Linux and Mac support was on their to-do list for everyting they presented<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: on old mumble usage we would need to run a batch file to change the bin<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does anyone of them even own a Mac?<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: now finaly they added a way for the viewer to use the right one<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, it might be at the moment but won't be for long.<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill Blight: scenegate is based on almost 2 year old code<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: But some wrong ideas on how to do that<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill Blight: We will see Andrew<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: details<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: they did promissed to talk more with us<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: lets see<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nobody have seen their source which they stressed was so important was open source<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well lisa actually did shown be a bug<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: much violation of the GPL going on there<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: we had for ages and don't remember any reporting<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: "request teleport" uff<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is the same talk they did back in 2016 when Lisa took ownership of a Kokua repository that had not seen an update for 8 years<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: It remains to be seen what will happen with SceneGate. There have been several starts at OS specific viewers and they all pretty much died out. If the people behind SceneGate can do what they talked about we may finally have an OS specific viewer that would open the doors for other changes in the OS code base.<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br>[11:53] Bill Blight: I was part of that group for a while, ummm yeah , no comment<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: ok i did got a spam of tp offers :)<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: so yeah now works<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: selby could tell<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, What were you testing?<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: he is IMA<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: that you received was not working andrew<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: "request teleport"<br />
<br>[11:55] Kayaker Magic: I got a request<br />
<br>[11:55] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: me too<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Since when has that been broken?<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: for some reason we where not dispatching the special im<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: some told me since ever<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: and i found no code at all doing it<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: ok.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: easy fix<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: done it during oscc :p<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL sent out a 5 page primer on how to covert viewer repositories from HG to git<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so this will be fun<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Most times I see offers of TPs going out but not requests for a TP.<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: completely new workflow<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: terry users also reported a issue on objects position on rez<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: fixed now<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: LL is moving to git?<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bitbucket is dripping HG support<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: all must move to git<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so we have no choice<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: all at bitbucket<br />
<br>[11:58] Kayaker Magic: Bill has installed the latest version here with changes done during OSCC?<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: bill made a automatic tool<br />
<br>[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Did they say why they want to drop HG support?<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from feb you cannot create HG repositories and come July they will remove all of them<br />
<br>[11:58] Bill Blight: yes this region auto updates on git commits<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: this region is automaticly updated to master<br />
<br>[11:58] Kayaker Magic: Cool<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so all the history not converted will be gone<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: so no.. im not doing any commit now<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: or Bill would need to rush prevent the thing from killing us :)<br />
<br>[11:59] Kayaker Magic: I'm confused: what does HG stand for in this conversation?<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they also said they will completely stop to fix any issues or bugs related to Windows 7<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just at the top of the hour. For anyone who came late this is the last meeting of 2019 due to Christmas and New Years. The next meeting will be on January 7 of next year.<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: LL and tpvs use HG ( mercurial) in place of GIT<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, HG refers to the Mercurial version control system.<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: similar system<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because their legal does not even allow them to have Win 7 installed after official support is dropped in a few days<br />
<br>[12:00] Kayaker Magic: I wondered how you could use git to Hyper Grid.<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: *facepalm*<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, magic. ;)<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what makes it possible to Hyper Grid will from now on be in git<br />
<br>[12:01] Kayaker Magic: Collisions in acronym space....<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: The reference to Bitbucket put it in context.<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: kay remember the chemical symbol of mercury ?<br />
<br>[12:02] Kayaker Magic: I see how they used that name....<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: yes it is Hg ;)<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... that means I will be able to remove Mercurial from my computer in the new year.<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: ll even published instructions or how they did it to help tvps<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: i was told<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 5 pages<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well i was on a meeting where Oz told that also<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: so you liked oscc?<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: i kinda liked the first 2 sections<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:05] Kayaker Magic: It is always fun.<br />
<br>[12:06] Kayaker Magic: I've noticed the education people were taking over for a while, now they say OpenSim Education is dead. ;0<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I liked it. I always find some panels worth attending to hear what people are doing with OpenSim or what new things are in the works from various groups of people.<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: did not expect animesh to be such sucess<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: its a old thing here at osg now<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is still pretty unexplored<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: when i seen the region on ubode and did sit on the floor<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is more difficult to make than just rigging something with avastar<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't seen the panel about OS being dead. I need to find that in the video of the recorded sessions.<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: felt the need for the bodyguards Bill gave me<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: so did wear them :)<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: those we have there protecting our door also :)<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I was happy that the OSCC event was run using 0.9.1 this year.<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: and amasing didn't crash once<br />
<br>[12:08] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: me too Andrew<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bought a few sets of FP animesh scripts in SL that also worked ok here<br />
<br>[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I've got three more items on my ToDo list as a result of the keynote and VIP Q&A sessions.<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: yeap ppl doing fun things with them at sl<br />
<br>[12:10] Kayaker Magic: I want to find the time to play with animesh...<br />
<br>[12:10] Kayaker Magic: so many projects, so little time....<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to find the time to finish some old inworld projects. Been too busy with RL projects.<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: but oscc had less ppl this here no?<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: counted 60 something 70 at most on keynotes<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: expo 3 basicly empty<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It felt that way to me. I counted the number of people in the four keynote regions at one point and it seemed less than past years. One region only had one user and the the other less than half dozens.<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I said before the timing is not good<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: December is busy everywhere<br />
<br>[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: It has been in December before but not as late as this.<br />
<br>[12:13] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: Its a bad time, they start advertising 10 days before and dont really reach out beyond people who have already been before.<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that too<br />
<br>[12:13] Kayaker Magic: I always went to sit in the least full region to give the poor servers a break.<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got an email invite with program 2 days before<br />
<br>[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I was seeing a large number of familiar names in the audience and fewer whose names were not.<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: servers didn't felt anything<br />
<br>[12:14] Kayaker Magic: lol<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: sitting people is zero load<br />
<br>[12:14] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: IT could be so much more but it feels that people are exhausted and trying to keep up with the ever shifting technology landscape.<br />
<br>[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be a carry over from past years. Conference staff would ask people to sit after they arrived at a keynote region.<br />
<br>[12:15] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: VR/AR is no where near ready and WebXR is probably the one to watch but still no where near ready.<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: we should to that anywhere<br />
<br>[12:15] Kayaker Magic: They did ask people to sit a few times.<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: hate lbsa ppl now<br />
<br>[12:15] Leighton.Marjoram @opensimfest.com: Virtual worlds still have a lot to offer<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: love to stand there<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: inc osgrid boss shhh don't tell :p<br />
<br>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: One thing that wasn't announced properly was their load test before the conference. I didn't hear about it until it was over.<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL now has a competition for best names<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when you are again allowed a full name at a price<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: yeah i was seening 50 ppl at lbsa when gavin told me it had happened<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I only knew because of a tweet I happened to see<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: they are selling name chaging to premium users<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: The attendance for the load test wasn't that high from what I heard.<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep<br />
<br>[12:17] Kayaker Magic: I went and threw snowballs at everyone.<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you sure did :-))<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: no idea why they made those changes to names<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't use twitter so mentioning the load test there isn't good. They should have sent out a notice on the OS mailing lists.<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: in past<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they felt a bit wet<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you should let a few of them knock people over<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: they don't know or ignore OS mail lists andrew<br />
<br>[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's wrap up this last meeting of the year.<br />
<br>[12:19] Kayaker Magic: Oh! Ubit: anything to say about the LocalTeleport OOSL function?<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: either that i don't know that one?<br />
<br>[12:20] Kayaker Magic: I saw it appear in the Wiki,<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: mb you mean objectTeleport<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: thats the fun one<br />
<br>[12:21] Kayaker Magic: lhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsLocalTeleportAgent<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to update the Wiki with the OS version number when some of the newest functions appeared.<br />
<br>[12:21] Kayaker Magic: You didn't write osLocalTeleportAgent? Who did?<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: ok i remember that now<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: it does tp setting avatar lookat etc<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: if viewers allow<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: and velocity etc<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: well its what it tells on wiki<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: made it ages ago :)<br />
<br>[12:23] Kayaker Magic: I'm interested in using it to solve the problem of where the avatar lands when standing up.<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: well some viewer settings my get in the way<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: don't remember details<br />
<br>[12:23] Kayaker Magic: Since osLocalTeleportAgent has threat level NONE, it can be used by anyone.<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: and does a fast tp<br />
<br>[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you want the avatar to land lying down??<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: its just setting postion etc<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: but viewers are the master<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: on several avatar things<br />
<br>[12:24] Kayaker Magic: When I stand up from this chair, I land on top of the bar.\<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: so some may not work<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: lookat is a case i think<br />
<br>[12:25] Kayaker Magic: I want to write furniture scripts that force the avatar to stand up BEHIND the chair in cases like this<br />
<br>[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I think that is because it moves you forward so you don't wind up on top of the thing you were sitting on.<br />
<br>[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have made some changes to a script or the parameters for that to happen on some chairs<br />
<br>[12:25] Kayaker Magic: Yes, and I'd like thee to be a way to adjust that default behavior<br />
<br>[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be a bit odd to wind up behind a chair you were sitting in when you stand.<br />
<br>[12:26] Kayaker Magic: Landing on top of the bar is also a bit odd<br />
<br>[12:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not necessarily<br />
<br>[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: True.<br />
<br>[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: That would also work when sitting on stools without backs to them.<br />
<br>[12:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: place a chair close to a window looking out and when you stand up you fall out the window<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: we should need a few more parameters and a OSSL to set them<br />
<br>[12:27] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a mantis asking for a way to set those paramters!<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: OSSLSitTarget i guess<br />
<br>[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that sounds like something fun to do for unsuspecting users. :)<br />
<br>[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is<br />
<br>[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but<br />
<br>[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it becomes tedious fast<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: and more parameters to add to all dbs oars etc yeack<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: pain :P<br />
<br>[12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got all the regions converted except those running on PI<br />
<br>[12:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they use the same robust<br />
<br>[12:36] Ubit Umarov: odd that error<br />
<br>[12:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was a very oddball script error<br />
<br>[12:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it is not there any more, so will probably never find out<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: something with a faulty script got loaded on the region, which triggered a rollback, and then the region simply stopped loading the rest<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: dbs should not rollback<br />
<br>[12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which left one region completely empty and one with a less than 50 items<br />
<br>[12:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, not there<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-12-17T20:45:27Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (19.00 UTC if grid time is PST or 18:00 UTC if it is PDT) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* meeting on 2019-12-31 will be cancelled due to new years eve - happy new year everyone<br />
* meeting on 2019-12-24 will be cancelled due to christmas eve - merry christmas everyone<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-10]]<br />
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* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
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Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
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* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
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'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-12-10Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-102019-12-10T20:35:50Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:00] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I am using SceneGate <br>[11:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and? <br>[11:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seems it works :) ..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:00] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I am using SceneGate<br />
<br>[11:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and?<br />
<br>[11:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seems it works :)<br />
<br>[11:02] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Scenegate works, yes<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, did you look into including the pre-processor in Dayturn?<br />
<br>[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I looked into it, and I think it is doable<br />
<br>[11:05] Kayaker Magic: I have a question for Ubit: How do we interpret the output of Top Scripts? The numbers seem higher than earlier versions.<br />
<br>[11:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we don't .. :)<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: speciall on Y those numbers are odd<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, interpret them the same as before. Lower is better. Higher is worse.<br />
<br>[11:07] Kayaker Magic: I keep running into people who say "if it is above 40 I throw it out!"<br />
<br>[11:07] Kayaker Magic: then I look with YEngine and it is 1,000,000<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I haven't determined what is the "cut-off point" in 0.9 vs 0.8<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: some ppl asked me for magic number for good low lag scripts.. no idea<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: adn the numbers are version/engine dependent<br />
<br>[11:08] Sheera Khan: maybe you should let those people explain what the numbers mean if they are that confident 40+ is bad ^^<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Find a script that has a runtime around 1 or so in 0.8 then run the same script in 0.9 and see what number you get. That will give you an approximate number to use as a cut-off. Just because it is high doesn't immediately mean you completely throw it out.<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I should check for some of the bad scripts I've fixed in 0.8 and see if I have the original version to allow me to compare numbers between 0.8 and 0.9<br />
<br>[11:11] Kayaker Magic: So can you give me some hint what the code is doing? Counting miliseconds used by a script in a fixed test period?<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: kinda that yes<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but code has no fingers.. hard to count<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so whats new on opensim?<br />
<br>[11:14] Kayaker Magic: LOL, you are supposed to tell us!<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ohh?<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well i still have KFM compatibity as i had, didn't touch it<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: lightshare will be removed<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: did it already, well all the active parts<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: a fs dev has been here testing bom<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: (Beq)<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well that's it :)<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you push the lightshare removal?<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: my code is now a mess<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: guess ill do a big messy commit lol<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: aha!<br />
<br>[11:17] Kayaker Magic: Last week I had a question about an OpenSim setup that was unable to start MySQL. One suggestion was to delete the addon-db folder and try again.<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( some files also have kfm changes etc )<br />
<br>[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Well, this is a new system and it fails before creating that folder, so I cannot delete it. Any other suggestions for why OpenSim cant start up with errors there?<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: mono addins fails?<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, OS doesn't start MySQL. Do you mean it isn't able to connect to MySQL?<br />
<br>[11:20] Kayaker Magic: [SERVICE BASE]: Failed to load plugin OpenSim.Region.Framework.Interfaces.ISimulationDataStore from OpenSim.Data.MySQL.dll ....<br />
<br>[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... that's odd.<br />
<br>[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Is that the first error you get during startup?<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had that one too<br />
<br>[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, early in the startup log.<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when I tested master on the PI<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but I got it past that point<br />
<br>[11:21] Kayaker Magic: This is on an x86 system, not the Pi.<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I understand but the code is identical<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: see no issues on that<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Just to cover the bases, you have verified the connection string is valid?<br />
<br>[11:22] Kayaker Magic: I checked my MySQL out, logged in with the same user and passowrd, restored an OpenSim DB from another system...<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have upgraded my test regions to run the latest dev and it all works OK<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Which version of mono are you using?<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but on the PI there is a very odd crash on loading data in grid mode, but not in standalone<br />
<br>[11:23] Kayaker Magic: mono 6.4<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: This system is going to conect to OSGrid.<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: i also have no idea why those missing prims some ppl report<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, You made some changes to mono addins recently. Any chance those changes could be related?<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: i noticed no impact on opensim<br />
<br>[11:25] Kayaker Magic: No<br />
<br>[11:25] Kayaker Magic: I'm using the same binaries on several other systems, it works fine there.<br />
<br>[11:26] Kayaker Magic: I'm sure I did SOMETHING wrong here, looking for hints....<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: no idea :(<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Same version of os and same version of Mono?<br />
<br>[11:26] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, Ubuntu 18.04<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. The only other things I can think to try would be to try an earlier version of Mono or roll back the code to before the mono addins changes to eliminate one or both of those items as being the cause of the problem.<br />
<br>[11:28] Kayaker Magic: OK, I'll keep hacking at it....<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Have you also checked to make sure you don't have a firewall issue?<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Several other similar systems are working fine.<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: "I just lost some terrain at 200 ! This sucks ( so far no grey AV) "<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: bahhh<br />
<br>[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you have the "Old Guids" option in the connection strings?<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: and what can i do? ive been at his region with 3000kbps and had no missing prims<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: :(<br />
<br>[11:30] Kayaker Magic: What is Old Guids?<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: ( that was about http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8516)<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kayaker, did you say you upgraded MySQL?<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to version 8?<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, it is one of the options that can be included in the connection string. It is a boolean that can be either true or false.<br />
<br>[11:33] Kayaker Magic: It is a brand new Ubuntu instalation, so it is a recent version of mysql.<br />
<br>[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you install legacy support for MySQl 8?<br />
<br>[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Just did the normal install, got version 14.14<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: 14??<br />
<br>[11:35] Kayaker Magic: mysql -V<br />
<br>mysql Ver 14.14 Distrib 5.7.28, for Linux (x86_64) using EditLine wrapper<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: MySQL 8.0 connectors and community drivers that use libmysqlclient 8.0 now support the mysql_native_password default authentication plugin. However, if you are unable to update your clients and applications to support this new authentication method, you can configure the MySQL server to use mysql_native_password for legacy authentication. For more information about the implications of this change, see caching_sha2_password as the Preferred Authentication Plugin.<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't think they were up that high in version numbers. I have 8.<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from this page https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/mysql-installer-workflow.html<br />
<br>[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. Thanks for finding that note, Gavin. I'd forgotten about that.<br />
<br>[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, I had to make that change on my machine.<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. Just found the setting in /etc/mysql/mysql.conf.d/mysqld.cnf in the [mysqld] section.<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: default_authentication_plugin = mysql_native_password<br />
<br>[11:39] Kayaker Magic: Well, I'll try Old Guids next chance I have. [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Try adding that setting<br />
<br>[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: and see if it helps.<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: does the new viewer suport animesh and bom selby ?<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there an announcement yet?<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: thing there was, at maria's etc<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: and guess at oscc<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: think*<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: not sure if the sources are avaiable now<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: beening lgpl..<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Not quite. Family just got back from a visit to the hospital.<br />
<br>[11:44] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: no new viewer does not suppor t animesh yet<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bento?<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: gezz bad gavin.. bento is olllldddd<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: well but got improvements<br />
<br>[11:45] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Maybe on road map, but now working on alternative voice<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bento is not THAT old it was in beta forever<br />
<br>[11:46] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: More secure voice<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure why the obsession of secure voice<br />
<br>[11:47] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I don't know about Bento -- not a priority<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: besides vivox significantly tightened security on their version earlier this year<br />
<br>[11:48] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Secure voice required for business and for students (FERPA)<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which are the main customers for vivox<br />
<br>[11:49] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: And some don't want to be<br />
<br>[11:50] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: OK with FERPA if students are not identified<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Is FERPA another one of those US based privacy laws?<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like it<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not even the president can have any privacy in that country<br />
<br>[11:51] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: yes, andrew =-- that's it<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
<br>[11:51] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is pretty much irrelevant for the rest of the planet<br />
<br>[11:53] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Other nations have similar laws<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: our main concern with voice is avaiabilty and cost<br />
<br>[11:53] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: But US is a big market<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The EU have a number of directives that the US completely ignore ;-)<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: vivox may end the free accounts they gave<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got one 2 months ago<br />
<br>[11:55] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: International services are a headache<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it sure is<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well but opensim is a international thing :)<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why we only can have names in ASCII ;-))<br />
<br>[11:57] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Businesses run their own OpenSim in house --on their own secure facilities<br />
<br>[11:58] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: So -- yes, international in a sense -- and private in another sense<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: There has been talk of being able to use Mumble/Whisper in the past for voice but it required some (minor?) changes in the viewer end.<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the use case for a business which requires high degree of security (above all the other security they have on their private nets)?<br />
<br>[12:00] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Mumbler is the current target for SceneGate<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: not much free options<br />
<br>[12:01] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Business don't need free options<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah but we are opensim<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: closed options are not our (direct) "game"<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: and usernames ascII well yeah<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: side effect of computer history<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: FERPA may be US only (at the moment) but there is that European privacy law that came in to effect that had an impact on people around the world had to deal with.<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: We are past the hour.<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Just a final reminder that the OSCC is this weekend.<br />
<br>[12:05] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I will be posting abour OSCC<br />
<br>[12:05] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: about<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: The website for details about the conference is at https://conference.opensimulator.org/2019/. Keep an eye on that site for the conference schedule.<br />
<br>[12:06] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Conference schedule is there<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The timing is just bad. Christmas preparations all week-end<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all of December actually<br />
<br>[12:07] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: https://conference.opensimulator.org/2019/event-directory/<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. It wasn't there a few days ago when I last checked. I know some people who were having a Christmas party that weekend but I'll be at the OSCC instead.<br />
<br>[12:07] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Right Andrew -- but I have beed c hecking everyday<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Selby, ok. I haven't been doing that. :)<br />
<br>[12:08] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I needed schedule fo blog article<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if they posted videos I might be interested in registering and paying<br />
<br>[12:08] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I expect them to post videos<br />
<br>[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Videos of the panels are available some time after the conference.<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they said that the 2 last years, and only a fraction was posted at some random site<br />
<br>[12:09] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: but you don't need to pay for videos<br />
<br>[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, you can also watch a live stream of the talks being given.<br />
<br>[12:10] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: They may have more funds this year -- to pay for videos<br />
<br>[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of which are in the middle of my night<br />
<br>[12:11] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Most presentations are 20 mins long<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The schedule says there was a load test but I hadn't heard about it so I missed it.<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got there after seeing a message on twitter<br />
<br>[12:11] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: So people may watch the videos now<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: gavin seen it<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they said it went well, and it worked OK as far as I could tell<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: 20 minutes isn't very long for the talks. They used to be slightly longer in the past.<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: think we where having a flood of 50 avatars at lbsa at that time<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: poor Ubit was flooded by students<br />
<br>[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, any idea on how many avatars took part in the load test?<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: well its a nice flood<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 50ish<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: they could just teach how to direct login to their regions<br />
<br>[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. That's not that many.<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: several waves<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was not packed in any way<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: during the evening<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: guess they distribute in time<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: If nebadon had been around he could have gotten 50 avatars in to the grid on his own.<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't know why they just sent out a tweet<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: who cares about pcampbots?<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: ;p<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have no idea why they just sent out a tweet<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, not very good. Not everyone uses Twitter.<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: well i didn't knew about that stress test time<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-12-10T20:34:51Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (19.00 UTC if grid time is PST or 18:00 UTC if it is PDT) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* meeting on 2019-12-31 will be cancelled due to new years eve - happy new year everyone<br />
* meeting on 2019-12-24 will be cancelled due to christmas eve - merry christmas everyone<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-12-10T20:34:26Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (19.00 UTC if grid time is PST or 18:00 UTC if it is PDT) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<!-- <br />
Don't forget to add the new chat log to [[Category:Office Hour Logs]] !<br />
Also, wrap the log in <pre></pre> tags, so that you don't have to add so many <br /> tags.<br />
--><br />
<!-- I'd do if I knew how to... and the br-tags are added to make long lines more readable <pre> would make you scroll sideways very often --><br />
<!-- Have a look at previous chat logs. I have added all of them to that category, and wrapped it in <pre> tags. --><br />
<!-- I'm back to adding those br-Tags. I got a "feature request" to make it more readable on mobile devices. And since it is just a mere call to sed ;-) --><br />
meeting on 2019-12-31 will be cancelled due to new years eve - happy new year everyone<br />
meeting on 2019-12-24 will be cancelled due to christmas eve - merry christmas everyone<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
* No meeting was held on 2019-01-08<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2017-12-19<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-12-03Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-032019-12-03T20:33:27Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[10:53] Kayaker Magic: Bill, I'm giving a talk at OSCC about 0.9.1, YEngine and ubODE, would you mind if I mention this region as a place to try those out? <br>[10:54] Bill.Bl..."</p>
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<div>[10:53] Kayaker Magic: Bill, I'm giving a talk at OSCC about 0.9.1, YEngine and ubODE, would you mind if I mention this region as a place to try those out?<br />
<br>[10:54] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: That is perfectly fine<br />
<br>[10:54] Kayaker Magic: Great. I've also got YEninge on most of my OSGrid land also.<br />
<br>[10:54] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I"ll put out a few extra vehicles around OSCC time<br />
<br>[10:55] Kayaker Magic: Oh, is there a firs-line comment trick for switching between X and Yengine in one region?<br />
<br>[10:55] Kayaker Magic: So you enable both of them make one the default and say // XEngine in the first line of a script?<br />
<br>[10:56] Ubit Umarov: Kay basic changes are the default engine setting and the respective enable<br />
<br>[10:56] Ubit Umarov: one could have both running.. but.. mb bad :)<br />
<br>[10:57] Kayaker Magic: So NO, I can't switch between X and Y on a script-by-script basis.<br />
<br>[10:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when will we see you using the IMA viewer?<br />
<br>[10:58] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: ugg out of heap exception YEngine<br />
<br>[10:59] Kayaker Magic: Bill, when did you get the heap error on YEngine? Just now?<br />
<br>[10:59] Ubit Umarov: better set the heap to a high value<br />
<br>[10:59] Ubit Umarov: i think i improved its acount of usade memory<br />
<br>[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Don't know -- FS is more convenient for me--it in not for the oldies -- for the nubies<br />
<br>[11:00] Ubit Umarov: but x had none.. so,,<br />
<br>[11:00] Ubit Umarov: FS is a nice UI now<br />
<br>[11:00] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: just now<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There is something I haven't seen for a while. Three of you are standing in t-pose. :)<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Is there a way to tell if vivox is enabled in a region? I've found if I come from a region where it is into a region where it is not, my white dot does not go away, so that is not a good indicator.<br />
<br>[11:05] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: there is an icon in the search bar in FS that shows if voice is disabled<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ty. Everything here is back to normal now. :)<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Right. If voice is disabled the microphone button is grayed out.<br />
<br>[11:06] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: well, that is not always true Andrew, if you have your mic toggled ON and voice gets disabled, most of the time it stays stuck ON ... LOL<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: True, Bill.<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've seen that happen. I'm here now and I have a white dot over my head but my mic button is grayed out.<br />
<br>[11:08] Kayaker Magic: You in FS Andrew? What does it say on the search bar?<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same here Andrew<br />
<br>[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes, I'm in FS.<br />
<br>[11:09] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Wave graphic has red strike sign<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If search bar refers to the icons across the bottom of the FS viewer screen I have a grayed out button that I use to initiate voice chat..<br />
<br>[11:10] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: on hover, popup says voice not avalable here<br />
<br>[11:10] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: across the top<br />
<br>[11:10] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: not bottom<br />
<br>[11:10] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: unless you have it disabled<br />
<br>[11:10] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: location/search bar<br />
<br>[11:10] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I an talking about the address bar<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Didn't think that the search bar reference made sense.<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the region has voice, but there is no voice channel available<br />
<br>[11:11] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: at the top<br />
<br>[11:11] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Mic at bottom is greyed out<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I see the voice related icon at the top of the viewer screen and it shows voice is disabled.<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes it is<br />
<br>[11:11] Kayaker Magic: It is called the navigation and search bar, I usually have it disabled to free up more screen space. It is just below the menu bar.<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, right. There is a search field in the top right corner. I've never used it.<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What items does it search?<br />
<br>[11:12] Kayaker Magic: Mine has a sound icon with a red NO circle and crossbar, Hovering over it says "Voice not available here"<br />
<br>[11:13] Kayaker Magic: I'll give that a try the next time the white dot sticks on.<br />
<br>[11:13] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: It triggers the inworld search<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes, I have same icon but no pop up text for it.<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: since most of you have white dots both over the avatar and in the people list, there is voice running for the region<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I had voice on here, just turned it off when started talking about it<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Turning it back on now ...<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Its back.<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: magic<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:15] Kayaker Magic: How do you turn it on without restarting?<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: More magic. ;)<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: about land > sound<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: un check it<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you give the server a kick in the right side<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: no more no less 20Ns impulse !<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: so now that y engine is a thing, does that mean no more updates to X engine?<br />
<br>[11:19] Kayaker Magic likes YEngine!<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you get it running on your PI?<br />
<br>[11:20] Kayaker Magic: No, I tried once, new OpenSim on Pi crashed and burned, no time to figure out why yet.<br />
<br>[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: lot of x-engine scripts out there though<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: O.o<br />
<br>[11:21] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: majority of X scripts will run fine under Y<br />
<br>[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Only problem I have ever seen is bad syntax that X let slip by but Y does not.<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: basicly only odd syntax things wil l fail<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Like some things you might find in a script from SL.<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: how odd is odd?<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: 1 in 10?<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: 1 in a 100?<br />
<br>[11:22] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeah Y is not as forgiving for bad scripting habits as X was<br />
<br>[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Well, you know the saying "A bad programmer can write FORTRAN in any language"?<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: well both now stop on divide by zero<br />
<br>[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: is that they way y engine was coded? to not let that slip by?<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org grins at Kayaker<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: another typical scripts thing<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Fortran (actually WATFIVS) was my second(?) programming language, or maybe third.<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can thank FORTRAN for the abundance of cheap oil and gas<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Y fixes a bunch of things like llSleep, prevents swcripts from stealing the CPU from the server, does border crossings more reliably, runs faster.<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Did I miss anything Ubit?<br />
<br>[11:24] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: More SL like in syntax<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: more or less that<br />
<br>[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: is there documentation listing those advantages?<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: yes.. this meeting log<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Any differences in order of execution or short cutting behaviour in (for example) if statements?<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
<br>[11:25] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: FORTRAN was my first programming language--I learned it from the manual --there were courses around them<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: it does those if(blabla) fine<br />
<br>[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i exchanged Fortran course for BASIC<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: also does some odd lsl lists hacks needed for first lsl sl engine<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What threw me off a little was realizing that execution of conditionals was right to left.<br />
<br>[11:27] Kayaker Magic: I'm giving a talk at OSCC on "what is great about 0.9.1" and YEngine and that list is one of my slides. What else is good about 0.9.1 that I should make a slide for?<br />
<br>[11:28] Kayaker Magic: I'm talking about some of the bug fixes, ubODE, ...<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: don't ask me.. i only remember its flaws :p<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i guess documentation ISN'T one of the advantages :)<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
<br>[11:28] Kayaker Magic: animesh....<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Melanie's console code dump<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Is BOM in the snail release?<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: shouldnt be included till we have a official viewer that supports it<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov kicks gavin<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe<br />
<br>[11:30] Kayaker Magic: I'll mention it as something else good that is coming....<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: there are viewers claiming to suport bom now<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: well might be debatable as to whether it is "good"<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: yes but does Yeti support them without crashing older regions?<br />
<br>[11:31] Kayaker Magic: LOL, it decreases bandwidth, so BOM should be good for everybody<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: theoretically Kay<br />
<br>[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the decrease will immediately be maxed out again on other outlandish attachments<br />
<br>[11:32] Sheera Khan: hihihi<br />
<br>[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: we are not all males wearing the same body and clothes year in year out :p<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: some of us like a little variety<br />
<br>[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hey! I resemble that remark. ;)<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: ;)<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: you arent alone Andrew!<br />
<br>[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: come on, I just switched to my winter sweater<br />
<br>[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Friend of mine says the best way to detect a guy in a female avatar is to measure the low frequency of outfit change.<br />
<br>[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: About time to start wearing ugly Christmas sweaters.<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: Bill is actually 3 times heavier then he normally is<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I know one woman IRL who wears the same outfit almost all the time.<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: depends too on the available content<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like late Steve Jobs who allegedly owned 100 copies of the same turtleneck<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: cheaper by the dozen i suppose<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can either prioritize my time on working on the viewer or making outfits. I can't do both<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: or work on the viewer and test it by going shopping :)<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I shop on Kitely market from time to time, but that is direct delivery<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually where do you go shopping these days?<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: best to stress a viewer by going to an overloaded shopping sim<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I do that sometimes<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: if Kitely took gloebits i would shop there a bit<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: measuring time to crash<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which can be as short as 30 seconds on some sims, or even welcome regions<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for some odd reason grid owners often stuff their welcome regions to the max<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just to make sure visitors never come back<br />
<br>[11:40] Kayaker Magic: I've got half a dozen regions here in OSGrid on 4 different severs, but one of them refuses to start OpenSim with an error loading the MySQL module. I'll dump the error message here and see if anyone can decode it for me:<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: guess they figure you wont go any further<br />
<br>[11:40] Kayaker Magic: 20:16:57 - [SERVICE BASE]: Failed to load plugin OpenSim.Region.Framework.Interfaces.ISimulationDataStore from OpenSim.Data.MySQL.dll with args Data Source=localhost;Database=opensim;User ID=opensim;Password=****;System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'System.Data, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089' or one of its dependencies.<br />
<br> at OpenSim.Data.MySQL.MySQLSimulationData..ctor (System.String connectionString) [0x00013] in <c406b17672aa41a58a0b3ffd6b2117c4>:0<br />
<br> at (wrapper managed-to-native)<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: vodoo<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: didnt like the password<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, are you using WiFi?<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: maybe syntax :)<br />
<br>[11:41] Kayaker Magic: I commented out the password in that message! I tried loging onto command line mysql with the password, worked fine.<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That looks like an error I got that either came from WiFi or the mutelist module.<br />
<br>[11:42] Kayaker Magic: The server is connected to my lan over a wire.<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: try delete addins-db folder<br />
<br>[11:43] Kayaker Magic: Where is the addins-db folder, I see nothing like that.<br />
<br>[11:43] Kayaker Magic: I made the system by copying the bin folder from a recent Yeti build.<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: bin/<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: addin-db-002<br />
<br>[11:45] Kayaker Magic: No folder like that, addon-modules but no add*-db*<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: That can be found under Robust and under instances.<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: there is one since first start<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bin/addin-db-002<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: if you don't have it... well no need to delete then :p<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: it will be created on startup<br />
<br>[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Ah, might be one now. Can't get there from here. will track it down and delete it.<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: well think i did fix another little bug today<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: have KFM half broken .. :p<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: great<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i may leave it out for a while<br />
<br>[11:50] Kayaker Magic: WHAT?! I'll die without KFM!<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: well have issues with compatibilty with older regions<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does that mean it is less or more broken compared to last week?<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: I was wondering that.<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: its kinda working fine on region<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so less broken<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: i didn't much on it this last week<br />
<br>[11:51] Arielle Popstar: whats KFM?<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: still don't understand the SL ping pong<br />
<br>[11:51] Kayaker Magic: llSetKeyframedMotion<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Key Frame Motion<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: guess ill let those changes out of 0.9.1.1. Snail release<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: i want to make it soon<br />
<br>[11:52] Kayaker Magic: I use llSetKeyframedMotion for lots and lots of smoothly moving boats, critters, things other people use physics for.<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well i changed its math<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: and made it use interpolation more and also on angular velocity<br />
<br>[11:54] Arielle Popstar: so it fixed a bug or created one?<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: so long constant velocities can mean 4 updates per second<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: but is did reduced its time resolution<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: i make it run now on heartbeat<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: so 90 something ms<br />
<br>[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Sounds like an optimization to lower server time and bandwidth.<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: on default heartbeat<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: but as i said compatibitly with stored keyframes and older regions crossings.. duhhh<br />
<br>[11:56] Kayaker Magic: Ah, stored keyframes in the state of prims. I see.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: the motion state<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: not the provided frames.. those are ok<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at the top of the hour already. This hour went by quickly. Any last minute comments, or questions?<br />
<br>[11:59] Arielle Popstar: yes<br />
<br>[12:00] Arielle Popstar: about the viewer for firestorm<br />
<br>[12:00] Kayaker Magic: I've been having a problem with sending IMs from my regions to people, I get "message not saved, avatar not logged on", but if I move to for example Wright Plaza and sent the IM again, it says "message saved"<br />
<br>[12:00] Arielle Popstar: when is it going to be ok for opensim release<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: It hasn't been that long since 0.9.1 was released.<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: AFAIK there will not be any FS release this side of Christmas<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because LL has a no-change window from mid december till over new years<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: 9.0.01 was also released soon after 0.9.00<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: we get more bug reports after a release<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: the Release candidate we used to had where just ignored<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I see that the FS site lists a 6.3 version for Linux but it appears to be an SL version. I don't see the equivalent release for OpenSim.<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: the ppl that did look to those are the same that look to master basicly<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: so i changed the release cycle<br />
<br>[12:03] Arielle Popstar: FS held of an Opensim release because of Ubit saying it was crashing older regions<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The FS opensim repository has not had any update for 7 months 18 days<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I think this is a good time to call the meeting to a close for today. We are now just under two weeks until this years OSCC.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well as i said, we had some bug reports since the release<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: so i plan to release the respective fixes<br />
<br>[12:06] Arielle Popstar: thats for the FS viewer compatibility?<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: go ask FS about their compatibilty<br />
<br>[12:07] Arielle Popstar: well they are holding back releasing for Opensim because of your statement right?<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[12:07] Arielle Popstar: that is what the head dev posted<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they don't have anyone who can work on it<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or will<br />
<br>[12:08] Arielle Popstar: so we wont see an official Firestorm BoM release for Opensim?<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to ask them Arielle<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: this is not a FS devs meeting, go ask them<br />
<br>[12:09] Arielle Popstar: the hold up is on this end Gavin<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whatever<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: no it is not<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah whatever<br />
<br>[12:09] Arielle Popstar: they intended to release it till Ubit mentioned it was breaking older sims<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is not<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: go read right<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: they intended to release a SL viewer and call it opensim also<br />
<br>[12:10] Arielle Popstar: quote: In my previous blog post I said we would provide an “as-is” download of this release for Opensim. However, I have been informed that this update will actually cause Opensim regions to crash upon login.<br />
<br>[12:11] Arielle Popstar: https://www.firestormviewer.org/firestorm-6-3-2-58052-with-bom/<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: yes.. read that well<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: ( hint: “as-is” )<br />
<br>[12:12] Arielle Popstar: and i see on Mantis that Firestorm 6.0.2.56680 is buggered too?<br />
<br>[12:13] Arielle Popstar: causing issues with viewer cache?<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: all viewers have issues.. as opensim.. uff<br />
<br>[12:16] Arielle Popstar: are you putting in BoM capability Gavin?<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: expect a new Dayturn build by this week-end<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: but you can clean them out of dayturn :)<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: like WHY viewers loose prims on the pipeline<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: eventually, yes Arielle<br />
<br>[12:16] Arielle Popstar: nod<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: they get the udp.. them loose them<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but there are a bunch of other things higher up in the queue<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: we can even sometimes click in air, and a countour shows up<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: sometimes even the full prim shows up<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right now I am overhauling the coroutine/event handling/llsingleton machinery<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus the windows installer has gotten another round<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: well this is old<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and hiding some SL stuff poking through here and there<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: fs was a total disaster on attachments<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: and guess sl viewer also<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: better now<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: but they do lose prims somewhere<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: specially if get 2 many<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-12-03T20:11:08Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (19.00 UTC if grid time is PST or 18:00 UTC if it is PDT) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
* No meeting was held on 2019-01-08<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2017-12-19<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-31]]<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-11-26Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-262019-11-26T20:30:40Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Looking at the OS change log it was mostly changes related to mono addins this past week. <br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:800..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Looking at the OS change log it was mostly changes related to mono addins this past week.<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and a lot of them too<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what happened Ubit?<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: issues with versions and signatures of the several libs it uses<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: only a subset used by opensim<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: one issue, you did hit it gavin :)<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well part of mess was the auto build of the thing, i kept putting back older versions of the libs, from several places<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: nuget and things like that<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: This years OpenSim conference is now only two and a half weeks away.<br />
<br>[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't see a conference schedule up on the site yet. It may still be a touch early for that.<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: only 100 DAYS till OpenSim Fest , shameless plug<br />
<br>[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Is that the second running of the event, Bill?<br />
<br>[11:21] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yes<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It is a ways off but as you have mentioned it is there a URL or grid location where people can get more information on in case they want to get involved with the event?<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 2 weeks before Christmas is not a good timing if you ask me<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: web site, still needs to be updated but , it is https://web.opensimfest.org/?tmpl=comingsoon<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: and we have a discord server<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: http://discord.opensimfest.org/<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ok. Thanks, Bill.<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: don't discord with ppl, thats ugly<br />
<br>[11:24] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: The website is still being done and we will start promoting over the next week or so. So people can start signing up and setup.<br />
<br>[11:24] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: site should be rocking and rolling in time for OSCC<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Leighton, Are you talking about the site for the Fest or the OSCC?<br />
<br>[11:24] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Discord is great Ubit there are some nice folx on there<br />
<br>[11:25] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Opensim Fest Andrew<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Leighton. Ok. Just wanted to make sure there was no mix up re: the events.<br />
<br>[11:26] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I wasnt to sure which event you were referencing so went with the one I am involved in.<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Leighton, np. In the past we have had someone attending this gathering giving updates on the OSCC. I was thinking that might have been you.<br />
<br>[11:27] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: np Andrew<br />
<br>[11:27] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Marcus usually starts showing up this close to OSCC<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods to Bill<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Perhaps he will be here next week.<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: For those that don't mind using Discord should we point out the recent Open Simulator server on Discord?<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: part of the mono addins changes where to fix its mautil so diva could fix wifi to oscc<br />
<br>[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good to know. It was nice seeing Diva in IRC once again. It has been a while. I was trying to get WiFi running with git master and having some troubles with it so I have had to skip using WiFi for now. Let's hope that Diva gets WiFi updated soon.<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: ppl is beeing usig wifi with Snail for sometime now<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: Ai Austin has some instructions on his blog<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I get lots of red text. The main one being that WiFi is having trouble accessing the MySQL database.<br />
<br>[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, you can guess what I'm going to ask next. :)<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: "time to end meeting?"<br />
<br>[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hehe... not yet.<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What is the URL for Ai's blog?<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't read blogs very often.<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: and you think i remember it??<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :) np. Let me do a quick search and see if I can find it.<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: guess google remembers<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: but what he did is the normal<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The URL I found is https://aiaustin.wordpress.com/<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: fix the prebuild-xml files for .net 4.6<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'll look through it later for the information about using WiFi with 0.9.1<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: and install it the old way not using mono addins ??<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: ( well using them just not mautil etc )<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well on code<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: im breaking kfm again<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've only applied the code changes that were documented in the place where I downloaded the source for the latest WiFi. If there other changes needed in the OS source tree I'll give that a try later.<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've seen you talking about KFM issues this past week. What issues have you been having with it?<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but really don't understand it at SL now, specially the ping pong mode<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: our loop mode is also not as sl now<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: our does not reset position and rotation to values at start of each loop<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: they will<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It has been a while since I last read up on KFM. IIRC, that allows it to run through the KFM actions from start to finish then do them in the reverse direction and then start to finish again, and so on.<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: now SL ping pong seems a mess<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is SL ping pong?<br />
<br>[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, It is a feature of Keyframing.<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: it does reset positions to initial values at the end of each iteration, ( already no much sense )<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: but worse... it does it somewhere in the middle of a sequence<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: not at extremes<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: a total mess<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and when did this change?<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: no idea, ages since i tested it there<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ah<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Resetting positions in the middle of a KFM sequence is going to seriously mess things up.<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: as is it just makes no sense<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: so im doing loop as theirs..<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: but ping pong as we had it<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: no reset postions ever<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but how do you test it?<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: make a thing and tell it to move :p<br />
<br>[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: With no reset the position of items might drift over time.<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: kfm is prone to drifts anywhere<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ok where did my thing went? lol<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: too much helium?<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: You can reset an object location back to the start for one time KFM sequences. When you start looping that can become an issue over time.<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I saw it going up and it went out of my view.<br />
<br>[11:45] Bill Blight: there is still one of your test things over on the border, still running<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I did too<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, It is well up in the air and still rising.<br />
<br>[11:46] KFMtstUbit: leaving touch<br />
<br>[11:47] KFMtstUbit: leaving touch<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: ok this is our loop<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: What do you find happens when you use Ping Pong mode?<br />
<br>[11:47] KFMtstUbit: leaving touch<br />
<br>[11:47] KFMtstUbit: leaving touch<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: stop touching it :p<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: You should ignore touches from anyone other than the owner.<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: adn one cares about that on test things...<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... it occasionally jumps position<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: ppl is not suposed to touch any thing they see :p<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Its like giving people a big red button and telling them not to push it. ;)<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: wel at least from the list we can guess what it will do<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: can't say the same at sl<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: but yes<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: more opensim breaking changes on this<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: yeack<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Have you noticed whether the physics engine in use affects KFM?<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: i know the code andrew :p<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: we had this fine at avination<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: got messed up on the big merge<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Good. How long before you fix it? :)<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: now im remaking it<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well i helped making work there<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but is has issues<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: like with PI rotations<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: have new code with that fixed<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I made a working ferris wheel using KFM. I've been meaning to bring it in to 0.9.1 so I could test it in the latest version of grid code.<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but still a over complex code<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: this is a damm simple thing.. grrr<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: well not much jitter here<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: current kfm is worse on windows<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, my use of KFM involves using rotations<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: has more rubber banding than linux, typical<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: hope i did improved that also<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Good luck with it, Ubit. The OSCC grid has moved to 0.9.1. I don't know if they have any KFM based objects running over there. If they do we will probably hear about it soon.<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at just under 5 minutes to the top of the hour. No Kayaker here today to fire off some questions. Does anyone else have any issues to discuss at this meeting?<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: at SL wiki<br />
<br>[11:57] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: just a simple question about 0.9.1<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: the example Continuous Spin<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Ramesh.<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: does not do what they say<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not really. Been working on the Windows installer for the viewer so that is posted this morning<br />
<br>[11:58] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: does anyone experience unusual delays with rezzing and taking objects into inventory?<br />
<br>[11:58] Bill Blight: I have not noticed any such delays, unless the region is very overloaded<br />
<br>[11:58] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ok<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Looks like the start of something for a washing machine. ;)<br />
<br>[11:59] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: also no issues with compiling very large LSL scripts (closed to the maximum allowed memory limit for one script)<br />
<br>[11:59] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ?<br />
<br>[12:00] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: It used to be faster on 0.8<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember you have also mentioned that compiling very large scripts results in the script being compiled twice.<br />
<br>[12:00] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: We also get this https://imgur.com/3n2o9Nl<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: our current loop does has they claim it should.. ( no reset to start position)<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: well our current code doesn't even move to the limits grrr<br />
<br>[12:02] Bill Blight: not seeing double "compile successful" here<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never seen that<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Ramesh, Do you have any information about the size of the scripts that result in that behaviour? Either in terms of lines or number of characters?<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov flüstert: thats compiling using what?<br />
<br>[12:04] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well I will have to get back to you, what I do know is that we were very close to the max allowed, and had to refactor scripts<br />
<br>[12:04] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: so that each was small enough<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov flüstert: thats compiling using what?<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: well our current code doesn't even move to the limits grrr<br />
<br>[12:05] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Andrew, can you remind us of the compiler we are using?<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do you see it on every viewer?<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it could be a viewer issue<br />
<br>[12:05] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Yes<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: sounds like you have comunications issues<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, If you mean which scripting engine it is XEngine. IIRC, it is OS running git master with mono 6.4<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: that's possible a viewer their stupid retries on http<br />
<br>[12:06] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I do have to head off see you all again next week :)<br />
<br>[12:06] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: :waves:<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Leighton. Thanks for coming.<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TC Leighton<br />
<br>[12:07] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Bye TC<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: ie you region is taking 2 long.. viewer did retried to upload same script again<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: so you got 2 compiles<br />
<br>[12:07] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ok<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: guess your issues are .. bad comms<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't realize (or remember) there is a limit to the maximum size of a script. My biggest script is 3,000 lines long. Not sure how many characters.<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: or overloaded regions<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Overloaded in terms of number of rezzed prims, or script usage, or both?<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or slow db response<br />
<br>[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, That is a possibilty. The server has plenty of free RAM and the CPU load isn't that high.<br />
<br>[12:10] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: After refactoring our scripts are pretty small actually<br />
<br>[12:10] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: even the main one is just 417 lines<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: 417 lines isn't a very large script.<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Although I know the person writing that code and he doesn't use much in the way of whitespace so that code is pretty dense.<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: 64k chars i think<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: viewer dependent<br />
<br>[12:12] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: correct<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I do see delays accessing a database now and then when I try to access it via phpMyAdmin. Not sure what causes that sort of delay.<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It even happens on my own computer now and then.<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably the db having to reach for the disk to fetch something, and could also be sequential search<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: Ramesh we don't notice those issues<br />
<br>[12:16] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ok<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: that double compile its the first time i see it<br />
<br>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Ramesh, Have you tried different viewers to see if it might or might not be viewer specific?<br />
<br>[12:16] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Were there major changes made to the way sleep works?<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ( and viewers should not retry http.. thats nonsense, but they do it a lot )<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: llsleep?<br />
<br>[12:17] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: on X as suicidal as before<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[12:17] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ok :)<br />
<br>[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: llSleep is less so with YEngine.<br />
<br>[12:18] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Good to know<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: yeah we need to change to Y and retire X<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: but.. again some scripts ppl call good, will fail<br />
<br>[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm sure it will happen eventually. it just takes some time. It isn't as if you don't have anything else to do, Ubit. :)<br />
<br>[12:19] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: May be we should try YEngine and see if things are better<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: we are on y here<br />
<br>[12:20] Ramesh.Ramloll @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ok<br />
<br>[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Easy enough to switch over to Y. Scripts will need to be recompiled.<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: this simple ping pong at sl does..<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: moves to PI.. jumps to zero, moves to -pi<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to the half past mark. Do you want to say anything about the latest changes to Dayturn? Anything special being worked on that you might want to mention?<br />
<br>[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have you reported it there<br />
<br>[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or is there a jira for it?<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: and its one waypoint only<br />
<br>[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: As I said I have worked on the Windows installer which is a nightmare to test<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: with more.. as i said no idea where it jumps to start<br />
<br>[12:22] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go -- bye all<br />
<br>[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus a bunch of llsingleton shit, but it gave a small performance increase<br />
<br>[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby.<br />
<br>[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so there are new builds this morning<br />
<br>[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the Windows version that is<br />
<br>[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks, Gavin.<br />
<br>[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yw<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: this is kinda what it does at sl<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: with the simple case<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: err or not lol<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: not :)<br />
<br>[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: That viewer is currently Windows only and is being developed by the IMA community.<br />
<br>[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-11-19Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-192019-11-26T20:25:19Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[11:08] Kayaker Magic: BOM! Begining Of Meeting!<br />
<br />[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, I am addicted to the pre-processor in FireStorm. Does Dayturn support that?<br />
<br />[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.<br />
<br />[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I've had a busy day dealing with a client. Just got finished (for now). :)<br />
<br />[11:10] Ubit Umarov: justin and blog?? i did mention it about that tp to same handler, can't be done<br />
<br />[11:10] Ubit Umarov: he also found that the hard way ages ago :)<br />
<br />[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I only recall seeing the pre-processor in FireStorm, do any other viewers support that feature?<br />
<br />[11:10] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br />[11:11] Ubit Umarov: cool VR claims even to suport it safely on opensim<br />
<br />[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't even know what the pre-processor is<br />
<br />[11:11] Kayaker Magic: It adds #include, #define, macros, #ifdef, and other features to LSL<br />
<br />[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't heard about the pre-processor in quite a while. I forgot it exists in FS.<br />
<br />[11:12] Kayaker Magic: I assume most viewer devs whack it out to make the viewer smaller....<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: and who wants ??<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: gezz<br />
<br />[11:12] Kayaker Magic: I use it EVERY DAY!<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: bad karma<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: those are c++ killers<br />
<br />[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Not writing in C, writing in LSL<br />
<br />[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: #include might be useful.<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: adn incompatible with other editors<br />
<br />[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I never use Firestorm :-)<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeha if you only use one viewer, and do not want to share scripts<br />
<br />[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Isn't Dayturn a branch of FireStorm?<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: what a folish idea<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: but whatevr<br />
<br />[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, it is not<br />
<br />[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it originalted in Imprudence via Kokua<br />
<br />[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: It did? I've only ever heard it being mentioned in relation to FS.<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, it has certain code sections from FS<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: such as the AO, the profile manager a few more<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but no, it is not forked from firestorm<br />
<br />[11:16] Kayaker Magic: OK, well if I have to use FireStorm, is there any problem with updating? Which version should I use these days?<br />
<br />[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a large sections of it is modern SL viewer code<br />
<br />[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Bill might be the person to ask that....<br />
<br />[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so what does the pre-processor do?<br />
<br />[11:17] Kayaker Magic: It allows me to #include common pieces of code,<br />
<br />[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, ic<br />
<br />[11:17] Kayaker Magic: #ifdef the same code to run on different systems (SL, IW, OpenSim, YEngine)<br />
<br />[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like a good addition<br />
<br />[11:18] Kayaker Magic: #define constansts that can be used in variable declarations, etc.<br />
<br />[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it is a piece of code that can easily be liften from FS, then maybe<br />
<br />[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lifted*<br />
<br />[11:19] Kayaker Magic: I'm not begging for it, just asking. But if Dayturn had it, I would definately use Dayturn more often.<br />
<br />[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br />[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: looks like it might date back to 2013<br />
<br />[11:20] Kayaker Magic: Funny how few scripters know about the pre-processor. They dropped it in one version, I was the only one missing it, and one of the FS devs at the time also said he had never noticed it before.<br />
<br />[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you have to enable it via a setting in the viewer?<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: bc it is a BAD idea<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: gezzz<br />
<br />[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, it is burried in the Firestorm section of the preferences.<br />
<br />[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be one reason why not that many people know about it.<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: and #defines are really a bad idea<br />
<br />[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LSL preproc from NaCL viewer in 2012<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: as i said make c/c++ a total pain<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: and incompatible btw compilers also<br />
<br />[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might even have been in Inprudence then<br />
<br />[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Imprudence<br />
<br />[11:23] Kayaker Magic: moving along, a question for Ubit: There was an out-of-heap error in YEngine a month or so ago, you said you knew what the problem was. Has that been fixed?<br />
<br />[11:24] Ubit Umarov: imade a change last days<br />
<br />[11:24] Ubit Umarov: lets see<br />
<br />[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... the preprocessor in FS has a setting for switch statements. That's one thing I miss about stock LSL.<br />
<br />[11:24] Ubit Umarov: have a test script actually runing bc tampa told Y leaks memory<br />
<br />[11:25] Kayaker Magic: I recall you saying that it really wasn't out of heap, just some heap accounting error.<br />
<br />[11:25] Ubit Umarov: {<br />
<br /><Ubit> state_entry()<br />
<br /><Ubit> {<br />
<br /><Ubit> llSay(0, "Script running");<br />
<br /><Ubit> llSetTimerEvent(0.1);<br />
<br /><Ubit> }<br />
<br /><Ubit> timer()<br />
<br /><Ubit> {<br />
<br /><Ubit> llSay(0,llGetUsedMemory());<br />
<br /><Ubit> list a = [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1];<br />
<br /><Ubit> string b = "[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1][1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1][1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1][1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]";<br />
<br /><Ubit> llSay(0,llGetUsedMemory());<br />
<br /><Ubit> } <br />
<br /><Ubit> }<br />
<br />[11:25] Ubit Umarov: oops<br />
<br />[11:25] Ubit Umarov: well this scrip<br />
<br />[11:25] Ubit Umarov: yes its Y counting memory usage<br />
<br />[11:26] Ubit Umarov: real leaks are other story<br />
<br />[11:26] Kayaker Magic: I had scripts that had been running for days suddenly get heap errors. Haven't seen it since.<br />
<br />[11:26] Ubit Umarov: another change on scripts both X and Y is div by zero error<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: integers always did it, but no floats, bc that is how C# does<br />
<br />[11:27] Kayaker Magic: Well, I have updated to newer Yeti versions several times since I got that error, and haven't seen heap errors again.<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: in C# a div by zero creates a NaN on infinity and goes on<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: filling everything with NaNs potencially<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: now div and % do stop the script if div by zero ( as sl does )<br />
<br />[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, forcing everyone to check for div by zero before it can happen.<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: as we always need to<br />
<br />[11:30] Kayaker Magic: Sort of like that permission-to-call patch I submitted for OSSL function.<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: ( at least think if it can happen )<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: oh u didn't forgot that :)<br />
<br />[11:30] Kayaker Magic: LOL<br />
<br />[11:31] Kayaker Magic: You see the utility of testing for 0 before a div, why do you not see the utility of testing for ALLOW before you call an OSSL function?<br />
<br />[11:32] Ubit Umarov: bc that does not inject NaNs all over the simulator :p<br />
<br />[11:33] Object: Script running<br />
<br />[11:33] Object: Script running<br />
<br />[11:34] Kayaker Magic: So Gavin: anything happening on the Raspberry Pi OpenSimulator front? You know why YEngine hangs?<br />
<br />[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have tested it and it did not hang<br />
<br />[11:34] Kayaker Magic: What did it do?<br />
<br />[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?threads/using-yengine-script-engine-on-the-pi-with-opensim-0-9-1.179/<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: Script running<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 0<br />
<br />[11:35] Object: 956<br />
<br />[11:35] Ubit Umarov: oops<br />
<br />[11:35] Ubit Umarov: that was that test script<br />
<br />[11:36] Kayaker Magic: Gavin: I will grab new binaries and give Yengine another try!<br />
<br />[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: How long does it take to build OS on a Pi?<br />
<br />[11:37] Kayaker Magic: I have been running YEngine on all my OSGrid regions (except for the Pi) and even found a minor bug in YEngine!<br />
<br />[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 4 minutes<br />
<br />[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? I was expecting it would be a lot longer than that.<br />
<br />[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why did you expect that?<br />
<br />[11:38] Ubit Umarov: the constants ops bug?<br />
<br />[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: It doesn't run as fast as a desktop computer.<br />
<br />[11:38] Kayaker Magic: A Pi 4 is a desktop computer!<br />
<br />[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to a large extent it does<br />
<br />[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at least when you are in the command line<br />
<br />[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ( or a floor computer if on the floor)<br />
<br />[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the desktop, maybe not<br />
<br />[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't used my Pi 4 much yet. In general I find performance of my Pi's to be less than that of my desktop.<br />
<br />[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course it is<br />
<br />[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it runs at 1.5 GHz and not turboing<br />
<br />[11:39] Kayaker Magic: A Pi 4 has 4 cores, runs at 1.5 GHz<br />
<br />[11:39] Kayaker Magic: 4MB of memory<br />
<br />[11:39] Ubit Umarov: MB?<br />
<br />[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: memory is quite fast and SSD performance not bad<br />
<br />[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: GB<br />
<br />[11:40] Kayaker Magic: GB<br />
<br />[11:40] Kayaker Magic: oops<br />
<br />[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: 4GB if you get the latest version.<br />
<br />[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I held out for the 4GB Pi4.<br />
<br />[11:40] Kayaker Magic: only off by 3 orders of magnitude!<br />
<br />[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br />[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let me put it that way, I have worked with far slower machines<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: so what else is new on opensim?<br />
<br />[11:42] Ubit Umarov: yeah like macs<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe<br />
<br />[11:42] Ubit Umarov hides<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have 1.4 Ghz macs<br />
<br />[11:42] Kayaker Magic: Since I was stuck with XEngine in one of my regions, I've been playing with my llKeyframedMotion vehicles crossing back and forth.<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they turbo<br />
<br />[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: It is just under one month until this years Open Simulator Community Conference.<br />
<br />[11:42] Kayaker Magic: Going from X to Y works seamlessly.<br />
<br />[11:42] Kayaker Magic: Going from Y to X recompiles and halts the script.<br />
<br />[11:42] Kayaker Magic: HOWEVER:<br />
<br />[11:43] Kayaker Magic: I can detect that happening, save my own state and I think I can recover, at least with my sailboat.<br />
<br />[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the M68020 without FPU was dead slow<br />
<br />[11:43] Ubit Umarov: yeha i did add to Y code to read X state<br />
<br />[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and Sun used it in their worstations<br />
<br />[11:43] Ubit Umarov: not that simple the other way<br />
<br />[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: workstations - or maybe worststations<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ohh was fast<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: not doing math :p<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: but sad was a 68000 at 10mhz slower than a 8088 at similar clock<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: running same C code<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: ( amiga versus a XT )<br />
<br />[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I upgraded my Amiga to a 68030 running at 25MHz.<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: original mac was hand coded 68000 assembly or cross compiled over from the VAX<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: i added more fixes on the Yengines constants operations redutions.. there where a few more bad cases<br />
<br />[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I tested the use of KFM to make an object move across region boundaries and found it was no problem. The device crossed the region boundary and came back without any issues.<br />
<br />[11:48] Kayaker Magic: Yes!<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: attachments are now limited to 38, but can all be at same spout<br />
<br />[11:49] Kayaker Magic: It seems to work both ways, and continues to the end of the list even if the script resets on a Y to X crossing!<br />
<br />[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I should change my local standalone instances of OS to YEngine.<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: there is a new option WearReplacesAll<br />
<br />[11:50] Kayaker Magic: I'm tempted to try a looped KFM to shuttle messages back and forth between regions.<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: defualt true is as before, if false is as SL, only replaces the older thing on same point<br />
<br />[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Where is that option specified? The viewers already have a menu entry to replace your entire outfit.<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: its inventory object wear behaviur<br />
<br />[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: ok<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: login on grid giving a region name now does FULL match<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: if fails, user is sent to a grid default region<br />
<br />[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it works :-)<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: ie to direct login here you do need to type "dev outreach" fully<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: no more guessing and sending to strange regions<br />
<br />[11:53] Kayaker Magic: case insensitive?<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br />[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: good<br />
<br />[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, it saves a lot of grief<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: region names must be case insensitive<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: and should not have accents etc<br />
<br />[11:55] Ubit Umarov: not sure we check that<br />
<br />[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am sure it only accepts pure ascii<br />
<br />[11:55] Ubit Umarov: i did reduce the max regions size to 4096m<br />
<br />[11:55] Ubit Umarov: 8192 was 2 large<br />
<br />[11:55] Kayaker Magic: ASCII was good enough for Jesus and the Bible, it should be good enough for everyone else!<br />
<br />[11:56] Ubit Umarov: did break terrain edit more..<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: it was still for v1 viewers<br />
<br />[11:57] Kayaker Magic: I try and convince people to keep regions to 1024 or less. They usually don't listen....<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: now updated<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: yeap more than 1024 is bad<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: but i left it 4096 for special cases<br />
<br />[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 1 km sq should do<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen people do a 10x10 var.<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: more than that makes precision erros worse<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ( has building above 4k meters )<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: as..<br />
<br />[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at the top of the hour once more. Any last minute questions or comments related to Open Simulator?<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: fixed "go here", if done sitting on a prim<br />
<br />[12:00] Kayaker Magic: No more questions from me! (This week yet)<br />
<br />[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. :)<br />
<br />[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing more for today that will conclude todays gathering.<br />
<br />[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again nex week.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-11-12Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-122019-11-26T20:24:56Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[11:02] Ubit Umarov: well the terrain code still a disgrace<br />
<br />[11:02] Bill Blight: I have it checking the repo every 10 minutes and if there is a new commit it builds , shutsdown, updates, and restarts<br />
<br />[11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Avatars are Toons - nothing damages then permanenelt<br />
<br />[11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: permanenely<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: still on ima selby ?<br />
<br />[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ha, you should have seen some avatars in SL back when. They got completely destroyed<br />
<br />[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Gavin shows up in my chat with the name (Loading...)<br />
<br />[11:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I still work with IMA, Ubit<br />
<br />[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br />[11:04] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002 is online.<br />
<br />[11:05] Ubit Umarov: ok.. last time i heard about ima as at last oscc :)<br />
<br />[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't seen those initials for a while.<br />
<br />[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the reson being I am on a new build with a lot of changes SL dumped on us yesterday and voice is not loading right now<br />
<br />[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Leighton.<br />
<br />[11:05] Ubit Umarov: well and a few days ago :)<br />
<br />[11:05] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Hello everyone<br />
<br />[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in addition they released another viewer today too<br />
<br />[11:05] Kayaker Magic: OK, all the (Loadings...) finally resolved, retroactively!<br />
<br />[11:05] Bill Blight: The new CEF and Vivox updates break a lot of things, I chose to leave them out<br />
<br />[11:05] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Leighton<br />
<br />[11:05] Ubit Umarov: ll released a viewer?<br />
<br />[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Didn't SL do something that was going to possibly kill voice support in OpenSim?<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one yesterday, one today<br />
<br />[11:06] Ubit Umarov: outch sounds something went bad then :)<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yesterday was the singleton shit, today a maint viewer<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, no<br />
<br />[11:06] Ubit Umarov: eep already?<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: completely planned<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not eep, no<br />
<br />[11:06] Kayaker Magic: Welcome Arielle!<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Arielle<br />
<br />[11:07] Bill Blight whispers: I'm gonna have a long night cherry picking FS commits for OS<br />
<br />[11:07] Ubit Umarov: really release in next day planed?<br />
<br />[11:07] Arielle Popstar: Hi Kay<br />
<br />[11:07] Arielle Popstar: Hi Gavin<br />
<br />[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Arielle.<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br />[11:07] Arielle Popstar: Hi Andrew<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then they can have a release party two days in a row<br />
<br />[11:07] Arielle Popstar: didnt there used to be 2 chairs on this corner?<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe you should have a 0.9.1 release party????<br />
<br />[11:08] Ubit Umarov: i moved one for mel last week<br />
<br />[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: There is one in the corner to my right.<br />
<br />[11:08] Arielle Popstar: that was cause for celebration<br />
<br />[11:09] Arielle Popstar: dont think i have ever seen her at one of these meetings except back in 2010 :)<br />
<br />[11:09] Ubit Umarov: ok there it is back +- on same place<br />
<br />[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: It was the first time I've seen Mel here in quite a while.<br />
<br />[11:09] Arielle Popstar: yay<br />
<br />[11:09] Arielle Popstar: ty<br />
<br />[11:10] Arielle Popstar: i was trying outy the BoM here but it doesnt work?<br />
<br />[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Speaking of Melanie, she seemed to like my permission-to-call function, but didn't like the name. If I change it to IsAllowed, will my patch be accepted into Master?<br />
<br />[11:11] Ubit Umarov: i was talking with her last week and told had to pay attention to meeting<br />
<br />[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see a problem with that name. Let's see what the others think.<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: so she did joined also :)<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: for me, thats on hold :p<br />
<br />[11:13] Bill Blight: possible I broke BoM in newer Openstorm<br />
<br />[11:13] Arielle Popstar: BoM or the patch?<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: ohh bill wearing BoM and im with fs 6.0<br />
<br />[11:13] Arielle Popstar: i tried with another viewer too but it didnt work<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: the patch<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: it is on mantis if any wants to use<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: but on core.. on hold<br />
<br />[11:14] Arielle Popstar: Bill looks ok to me<br />
<br />[11:14] Kayaker Magic: I have an old viewer, bill has a red face for me.<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: brb<br />
<br />[11:15] Ubit Umarov is offline.<br />
<br />[11:15] Arielle Popstar: oh and i tried that block thing you talked about from a BoM region to a no BoM and had no issues jumping<br />
<br />[11:15] Arielle Popstar: thought that was not supposed to be allowed<br />
<br />[11:15] Ubit Umarov is online.<br />
<br />[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: wb, Ubit<br />
<br />[11:16] Arielle Popstar: @ Ubit- oh and i tried that block thing you talked about from a BoM region to a no BoM and had no issues jumping<br />
<br />[11:16] Ubit Umarov: back with a older openStorm version<br />
<br />[11:16] Arielle Popstar: i'm on .0.9.1.111<br />
<br />[11:16] Arielle Popstar: is that old?<br />
<br />[11:17] Ubit Umarov: im on .. 20 :)<br />
<br />[11:17] Ubit Umarov: bill did hide a crash i want to see :)<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: well<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: so what is knew on opensim andrew?<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[11:18] Kayaker Magic: I notice that the YEngine comments in OpenSim.ini.example no longer says "don't use YEngine with multiple regions per instance". Is it working in that configuration now???<br />
<br />[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: knew? I know nothing, nothing<br />
<br />[11:18] Bill Blight: yeah BoM is working fine in the current viewer<br />
<br />[11:18] Arielle Popstar: there is a copuple questions out there already Ubit<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: and new :p<br />
<br />[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks says that in his best imitation of Schulz ;)<br />
<br />[11:18] Bill Blight: yeah<br />
<br />[11:19] Ubit Umarov: yes Y should be more safe now<br />
<br />[11:19] Kayaker Magic: YAY! I'll be using it on more regions!<br />
<br />[11:19] Arielle Popstar: @Kayyaker we need a a finger drumming animation with sound<br />
<br />[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: The OSCC grid has been upgraded to 0.9 and is being tested.<br />
<br />[11:19] Ubit Umarov: my test regions are 2 per instance :)<br />
<br />[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: It will be interesting to see how it holds up with the conference traffic.<br />
<br />[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Oh, and I'm giving a talk at OSCC titled "What's Great About OpenSIm 0.9.1", and YEngine is going to be one of my points.<br />
<br />[11:20] Arielle Popstar: is OSCC going to be running yengine?<br />
<br />[11:20] Ubit Umarov: ohh Dear<br />
<br />[11:20] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: No pressure on Ubit to make sure there are no major problems with YEngine. :)<br />
<br />[11:20] Arielle Popstar: i might go just for the excitement<br />
<br />[11:20] Kayaker Magic: I dont think they are YEngine, but I can still recommend it in a talk....<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: oscc should stay on X for now<br />
<br />[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: The comments I've seen on the mailing list indicate that they are still using XEngine.<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: they have no time to test all changes<br />
<br />[11:21] Arielle Popstar: are you going to be testing concurrency for oscc ahead of time?<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: and bullet also<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: same reason<br />
<br />[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: They had a question about a change between 0.8 and 0.9 that affected some scripts. It would only be something they might see only if they were using XEngine.<br />
<br />[11:22] Ubit Umarov: oscc is also a social thing.. no need<br />
<br />[11:22] Ubit Umarov: im afraid scripts also changed<br />
<br />[11:22] Bill Blight: If you want to see ubODE physics for info for your Talk Kayaker, check out the vehicles here, the ones on Blights Beach here on osGrid, or on my grid ourgrid.life:80:OGLA OpenWater<br />
<br />[11:22] Ubit Umarov: several changes on LSL even<br />
<br />[11:22] Ubit Umarov: ( SL also changed )<br />
<br />[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, There was talk of doing a load test before the OSCC if that is what you mean.<br />
<br />[11:23] Bill Blight: There is also a ball dropper up on the hill on this sim, that you can play with ..<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: well time for a load test there is running out :p<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: but well thier thing<br />
<br />[11:24] Ubit Umarov: what BoM to BoM jumps arielle ?<br />
<br />[11:24] Arielle Popstar: bom to non bom<br />
<br />[11:24] Bill Blight: (bake on mesh is working fine here, btw, wearing the BoM avatar now)<br />
<br />[11:25] Ubit Umarov: that should be blocked by bom region if wearing a unversal wearable<br />
<br />[11:25] Arielle Popstar: when i put the system clothing on it isnt showing<br />
<br />[11:25] Bill Blight: you have to goto textures and select them<br />
<br />[11:25] Ubit Umarov: if not, tp works, and even BoM works<br />
<br />[11:25] Bill Blight: map part to part<br />
<br />[11:25] Arielle Popstar: why?<br />
<br />[11:26] Arielle Popstar: thats not how it works in s/l is it?<br />
<br />[11:26] Bill Blight: yes<br />
<br />[11:26] Arielle Popstar: think i just wear a premade wearable and it shows up on my mesh body<br />
<br />[11:26] Bill Blight: well it should default<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well , ppl need to learn BoM<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: seems it is a confusion even at SL<br />
<br />[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can say that<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: region code seems doing what is suposed to do<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: with current viewers that do suport it, of course..<br />
<br />[11:28] Bill Blight: I just put on a test shirt and it went straight to the mesh<br />
<br />[11:28] Arielle Popstar: ok yes, thats how i thought it was supposed to work<br />
<br />[11:29] Bill Blight: (I guess I was saying , IF for some reason it did not update right , you can go to the texture menu and assign it)<br />
<br />[11:29] Arielle Popstar: ok<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: its normal rebakes thing<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: what we get is the baked texture only<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: that the BoM point<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: that is..<br />
<br />[11:31] Ubit Umarov: reduce the need for onion avatars to have skin tight layers<br />
<br />[11:31] Ubit Umarov: only sending a single baked texture per avatar part<br />
<br />[11:31] Arielle Popstar: does it actually save much?<br />
<br />[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tons of geometry<br />
<br />[11:32] Arielle Popstar: the additional layers dont seem to add a lot anyway<br />
<br />[11:32] Ubit Umarov: looking to the onion things on heads guess to<br />
<br />[11:32] Ubit Umarov: onions are extra mesh + extra textures<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: each layer adds the full geometry of the avatar shell<br />
<br />[11:32] Arielle Popstar: yes heads are a bit more but more need to use multiple layers even with BoM<br />
<br />[11:32] Ubit Umarov: textures still needed, but only seen by own avatar on rebake<br />
<br />[11:33] Bill Blight: cuts it down from what 65 textures to like 11<br />
<br />[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so if you have an avatar with 5 layers, it is 5x the geometory of the original avatar<br />
<br />[11:33] Bill Blight: something like that<br />
<br />[11:33] Ubit Umarov: ( here .. sl uses server side bkes)<br />
<br />[11:33] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br />[11:33] Arielle Popstar: i thought we had xbakes<br />
<br />[11:33] Arielle Popstar: isnt that server side?<br />
<br />[11:33] Bill Blight: so that is 1/6 the calls to the server<br />
<br />[11:33] Bill Blight: approx<br />
<br />[11:33] Ubit Umarov: onions are layers of meshs in order to have textures layers<br />
<br />[11:34] Arielle Popstar: in Opensim bodies, a lot are alrteady single layer<br />
<br />[11:34] Arielle Popstar: it really was more an s/l issue<br />
<br />[11:34] Ubit Umarov: well BoM is a step to what ll should had done in first place<br />
<br />[11:34] Ubit Umarov: IMPROVE system avatar<br />
<br />[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed Ubit<br />
<br />[11:34] Ubit Umarov: meshed avatars as they made are just bad<br />
<br />[11:35] Bill Blight: unlike just applying avatar baked textures , which leaves the many more individual textures, BoM reduces the number of calls that need to be sent, (I think that is correct, Ubit?)<br />
<br />[11:35] Arielle Popstar: should have just put in a better system avatar and would have been done<br />
<br />[11:35] Ubit Umarov: hack on top of hack etc<br />
<br />[11:35] Ubit Umarov: and less tunable as system avatar<br />
<br />[11:36] Ubit Umarov: the clothes never match meshes, bc they have no morphs the system avatar has<br />
<br />[11:36] Ubit Umarov: they replaced a royles royce by a fiat 600<br />
<br />[11:36] Ubit Umarov: doing the mesh avatars they did<br />
<br />[11:37] Bill Blight: average mesh avatar is 10x to 500x heavier load than system avatars, having heavier default avatars would be like throwing a gigantic lag bomb at ever gred<br />
<br />[11:37] Ubit Umarov: so generate a few more $L on market<br />
<br />[11:37] Bill Blight: *grid<br />
<br />[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but well.. its their grid<br />
<br />[11:37] Bill Blight: yep and they can control every aspect of every region<br />
<br />[11:37] Ubit Umarov: tell ppl to make mesh avatar<br />
<br />[11:37] Bill Blight: They don't have HG and all the various server power to deal with<br />
<br />[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: going from a 44 to an 20k avatar would not matter much compared to the 500k avatars people now use<br />
<br />[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 4k*<br />
<br />[11:38] Ubit Umarov: then make them impossible to see with jellyThings<br />
<br />[11:38] Ubit Umarov: LOL<br />
<br />[11:38] Bill Blight: That is true gavin<br />
<br />[11:38] Arielle Popstar: a naked athena or ruth is only around 3000 compleity<br />
<br />[11:38] Ubit Umarov: 30000 you mean<br />
<br />[11:38] Arielle Popstar: no<br />
<br />[11:38] Arielle Popstar: 3000<br />
<br />[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: complexity is a number that is invented by LL for financial reasons<br />
<br />[11:39] Ubit Umarov: no gavin.Hird<br />
<br />[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it says squat about the geometry of the avatar<br />
<br />[11:39] Ubit Umarov: to hide the f*up they made adding mesh avatars<br />
<br />[11:39] Arielle Popstar: or the texture load<br />
<br />[11:39] Bill Blight: The problem is , not the GOOD avatars, the ones well made, the problem is all the 300k to 1 million complexity avatars<br />
<br />[11:39] Ubit Umarov: they opened the door for insane size avatars<br />
<br />[11:40] Ubit Umarov: and those creators cry for a better rendering engine<br />
<br />[11:40] Bill Blight: for sure Ubit<br />
<br />[11:40] Ubit Umarov: non sense<br />
<br />[11:40] Arielle Popstar: i have flexi hairs that are more then my whole mesh avatar typically<br />
<br />[11:40] Ubit Umarov: some ask for unity engine on viewer<br />
<br />[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course you do<br />
<br />[11:40] Arielle Popstar: so please dont make it out that high complexity is a new thing<br />
<br />[11:41] Bill Blight: The problem is not the avatars , the problem is the people that don't care if their one million complexity avatar makes others lag<br />
<br />[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet every flex geometry have their own 1024 texture too<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: unity engine would be as bad or even worse with those avatars<br />
<br />[11:41] Arielle Popstar: they dont know<br />
<br />[11:41] Bill Blight: How can they not know<br />
<br />[11:41] Arielle Popstar: set the throttles so they rez highly complex avatars last'<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: well BoM is a try to improve that a bit<br />
<br />[11:41] Arielle Popstar: because they dont have complexity number showing<br />
<br />[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Unity works prretty ppor with dynamic content<br />
<br />[11:42] Ubit Umarov: since it matters, i did add the suport for it<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: poor even<br />
<br />[11:42] Ubit Umarov: region side<br />
<br />[11:42] Arielle Popstar: support for?<br />
<br />[11:42] Ubit Umarov: now viewer side, and how to use..<br />
<br />[11:42] Ubit Umarov: not my thing :)<br />
<br />[11:42] Bill Blight: that is a set of diminishing returns, if you have to check every avatars complexity as they land, yet one more step in the rez process, to slow things dwn<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't even have the complexity code in the viewer<br />
<br />[11:43] Arielle Popstar: the complexity number should be pretty easy calculation<br />
<br />[11:43] Ubit Umarov: ll was forced to add complexity code<br />
<br />[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not<br />
<br />[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is all over the viewer code<br />
<br />[11:43] Bill Blight: yep, pain in the ass<br />
<br />[11:43] Arielle Popstar: its just weird that high complex ones often rezz first<br />
<br />[11:43] Ubit Umarov: to force "market self regulation" they say<br />
<br />[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was actually a pain to keep it out<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: they let ppl make stupid avatars..<br />
<br />[11:44] Arielle Popstar: darn freedoms<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: then viewer hides them<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: so they will not sale<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: that is complexity and jellyThings logic<br />
<br />[11:45] Arielle Popstar: why not put in a texture resizer to the viewer so that a 1024x1024 texture can be resized easily to 512x512<br />
<br />[11:45] Arielle Popstar: or less<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: you can make stupid avatars, can pay the uploads costs..<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: then no one will see them :)<br />
<br />[11:45] Bill Blight: umm that is already in there,<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: but it is there<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: L$ did flow<br />
<br />[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because you may possibly not have any mod rights to them<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or copy even<br />
<br />[11:46] Arielle Popstar: not changing anything<br />
<br />[11:46] Arielle Popstar: just the resoltion<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then you resanmel the original<br />
<br />[11:46] Bill Blight: Graphics -> Rendering -> Restrict Maximum texture resolution to 512px<br />
<br />[11:46] Ubit Umarov: well about last changes on Dev code<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: resample<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer tries to protect content creators<br />
<br />[11:46] Arielle Popstar: mesh resolution changes as per the distance i view it at through the lod<br />
<br />[11:46] Ubit Umarov: im breaking terrain code, specially terraform<br />
<br />[11:47] Ubit Umarov: from some odd reason no one noticed that our code was for viewers V1 only<br />
<br />[11:47] Ubit Umarov: was bad on current viewers<br />
<br />[11:47] Bill Blight: one of those things we just got used to<br />
<br />[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it does not change mesh resolution, but swaps the mesh for another LOD mesh at some tresholds<br />
<br />[11:47] Ubit Umarov: so im changing that<br />
<br />[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do you really think the viewer decimates the mesh on the fly for you?<br />
<br />[11:47] Bill Blight: lol<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: brush size is now under viewer control<br />
<br />[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: area terraform strenght also<br />
<br />[11:48] Arielle Popstar: oh cool Bill. thx<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: and we can change the selected parcel<br />
<br />[11:48] Bill Blight: It is working pretty good Ubit<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: that is the work goal<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: then "cosmetics"<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: stop using stupid double where float is more than enough<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: and try speed up code a bit<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: but terrain is still a huge code mess<br />
<br />[11:50] Arielle Popstar: did you try any of the code changes Lanani made to sped up the code?<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: another thing i started, on hold now it number of attachements allowed<br />
<br />[11:50] Arielle Popstar: oh?<br />
<br />[11:50] Bill Blight: I actually tested Lanani's stuff, not a fan<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: the 38 limit viewers expect will be enforced<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: and all can be on a single point<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: again another update our of viewers V1 spec<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: our == out<br />
<br />[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you can attach 38 flexi prims to one point to make a hair<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: i don't follow nani fork<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: all the changes i seen in past where basicly meaningless<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: if not wrong<br />
<br />[11:52] Bill Blight: many are placebo<br />
<br />[11:53] Arielle Popstar: well it is opensource code that could benefit Master so maybe an idea to consider for the good of the project ?<br />
<br />[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe break out individual changes as patches then and not just a big code dump<br />
<br />[11:53] Arielle Popstar: well it is fast and people load quickly<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: and the throttles talk.. gezz no going to waste more time trying to explain that<br />
<br />[11:53] Bill Blight: Maybe if she ran an actual code repository so patches could be reviewed , and you did not have to hunt in code for them, it might be better received ..<br />
<br />[11:54] Arielle Popstar: you never have explained it Ubit<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: yeah just files, makes impossible t look<br />
<br />[11:54] Arielle Popstar: and i have asked on a few occasions<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: and i did answer tons of times<br />
<br />[11:54] Arielle Popstar: no you didnt except "Bahh"<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: throtles are part of all internet infrasture<br />
<br />[11:55] Ubit Umarov: they help on things like fair usage.. trafic control etc etc<br />
<br />[11:55] Kayaker Magic: LaNani did more than remove throttles, she also added caches.<br />
<br />[11:55] Bill Blight: I remember when someone else removed all the throttles and brought metro down<br />
<br />[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: This is something we need here on region crossing:<br />
<br />[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The new Disney+ streaming service has added social justice trigger warnings cautioning viewers that classic films may contain "outdated cultural depictions."<br />
<br />[11:55] Bill Blight: HAHAHA<br />
<br />[11:56] Bill Blight: I saw that Gavin<br />
<br />[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe<br />
<br />[11:56] Arielle Popstar: only answer i ever seen on throttles was was by Rene at HGB the other day:<br />
<br />[11:56] Ubit Umarov: and anyone can fork opensim.. no issues on that<br />
<br />[11:56] Arielle Popstar: To be precise, the hard coded throttles in snail were there because the underlying root causes of poor performance in snail were not addressed<br />
<br />[11:56] Bill Blight: Bahhh<br />
<br />[11:56] Bill Blight: (to quote Ubit)<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: seeing bloggers telling pure BS about tech issues, is nothing new..<br />
<br />[11:57] Arielle Popstar: and then the post goes on to explain some the changes that Nani's code addressed<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: bloggers are.. bloggers..<br />
<br />[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: influencers<br />
<br />[11:57] Bill Blight: I love it when non-developers try to solve development issues by just insulting developers<br />
<br />[11:57] Bill Blight: annoying<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: whatever<br />
<br />[11:58] Arielle Popstar: uhm well dev's insulting dev's happens on both sides<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: "evangelists" you also called them gavin? :)<br />
<br />[11:58] Kayaker Magic: I happen to know Rene is a developer, did lots of work on IW.<br />
<br />[11:58] Arielle Popstar: yes was my understanding too that he develops<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: who is rene?<br />
<br />[11:59] Bill Blight: Well that explains a lot, must IW people show up and are Anti-Opensim regardless of the facts<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: no idea who is rene..<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: why you mention Rene??<br />
<br />[11:59] Arielle Popstar: whats it matter Ubit?<br />
<br />[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In Apple we had formal titles on many positions such as "Opensource evangelist" or "USB evangelist"<br />
<br />[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well doesn't matter<br />
<br />[12:00] Ubit Umarov: opensim always had forks, and will have<br />
<br />[12:00] Kayaker Magic: Someone quoted Rene on the HGB blog, I was clarifying who that was.<br />
<br />[12:00] Ubit Umarov: and always had people talkng with no idea of things<br />
<br />[12:00] Ubit Umarov: nothing new<br />
<br />[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at the top of the hour. Any final questions or comments for todays gathering?<br />
<br />[12:01] Ubit Umarov: ( and always had bugs :p )<br />
<br />[12:01] Arielle Popstar: yes and you brought in code originally from avination as well as revolution smythe<br />
<br />12:01] Arielle Popstar: in code dumps<br />
<br />[12:01] Arielle Popstar: so code dumps are nothing new<br />
<br />[12:01] Ubit Umarov: yes we do use code from forks also<br />
<br />[12:01] Ubit Umarov: if it good.. of course<br />
<br />[12:01] Arielle Popstar: lol<br />
<br />[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br />[12:02] Ubit Umarov: var regions code is based on Aurora code<br />
<br />[12:02] Ubit Umarov: we are clear on that.. proper credits even on source file<br />
<br />[12:02] Ubit Umarov: Y .. again proper credits, even on source file<br />
<br />[12:02] Arielle Popstar: my point is that if a fork has some useful code that will make Master better, then maybe it should be looked at closer<br />
<br />[12:03] Ubit Umarov: look to what?<br />
<br />[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: again Arielle it is infinitely easier to look for if there is a proper repository with changes to inspect and not just the occasional code dump to wade thorugh<br />
<br />[12:03] Arielle Popstar: i know Gavin<br />
<br />[12:03] Ubit Umarov: look to as bunch of files on Zip ???<br />
<br />[12:04] Bill Blight: if the forks provide proper patches it is much easier to "Look At" , if they don't well, expecting core to go hunt through code for what may or may not be better is a waste of time ..<br />
<br />[12:04] Arielle Popstar: and i have put it out to her multiple times<br />
<br />[12:04] Ubit Umarov: and a list of features, some of those are actually Core changes?<br />
<br />[12:04] Ubit Umarov: nahh sorry no time for that<br />
<br />[12:04] Arielle Popstar: huh?<br />
<br />[12:04] Bill Blight: No time to go on a scavenger hunt for "good code"<br />
<br />[12:05] Arielle Popstar: you know what you dont have time for? To try carrying this project all by yourself instead of being more open to allowing code in from others<br />
<br />[12:05] Ubit Umarov: i do look to some forks<br />
<br />[12:05] Ubit Umarov: warp3d code<br />
<br />[12:05] Ubit Umarov: i used whitecore lib<br />
<br />[12:05] Ubit Umarov: changed it and told them<br />
<br />[12:06] Ubit Umarov: did look to halcyon also...<br />
<br />[12:06] Ubit Umarov: bahh<br />
<br />[12:06] Arielle Popstar: prob with only one dev is that the focus is only on that part of the code that particular dev has an interest in<br />
<br />[12:06] Bill Blight: There have been quite a few outside patches lately, and they were provided as patches, not "Go dig through my code and see what I did better than you"<br />
<br />[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Yeah. That's not going to happen with most OS projects.<br />
<br />[12:08] Arielle Popstar: what about firestorm? Shouldnt they release their Opensim version as Sing, cool have already rreleased their Opensim BoM versions now?<br />
<br />[12:09] Ubit Umarov: firestorm is as before no Dev to look for opensim needs<br />
<br />[12:09] Bill Blight: It's their project they can do what they want, and we already know they are more LL focused than anything<br />
<br />[12:09] Arielle Popstar: oh thought Bill was doing that<br />
<br />[12:09] Bill Blight: I don't work for FS<br />
<br />[12:09] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br />[12:09] Ubit Umarov: other viewers.. don't know<br />
<br />[12:09] Bill Blight: I forked FS and have released the test only viewer<br />
<br />[12:10] Arielle Popstar: no but you are an Opensim dev working on FS code<br />
<br />[12:10] Bill Blight: I'm not an opensim dev<br />
<br />[12:10] Ubit Umarov: people using several with BoM code here<br />
<br />[12:10] Bill Blight: I test code<br />
<br />[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought there was one person working on FS who was looking at the OpenSim side of things. Have they stopped working on it already?<br />
<br />[12:10] Arielle Popstar: oh thought you were<br />
<br />[12:10] Bill Blight: and beat up on Ubit<br />
<br />[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS don't have any opensim developer<br />
<br />[12:10] Ubit Umarov: cool VR did claim full 0.9.1.0 BoM suport<br />
<br />[12:10] Bill Blight: right<br />
<br />[12:10] Bill Blight: they have one<br />
<br />[12:11] Bill Blight: but not even part time at the moment due to real life issues<br />
<br />[12:11] Ubit Umarov: know ppl using other fs forks like openStorm<br />
<br />[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, one person had stated they were going to be working on OpenSim support.<br />
<br />[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I meant for all practical purposes<br />
<br />[12:11] Arielle Popstar: Beq<br />
<br />[12:11] Ubit Umarov: if AS IS forks or with code for opensim, no idea<br />
<br />[12:11] Bill Blight: yeah you are right about that Gavin<br />
<br />[12:11] Ubit Umarov: Beq is lost in RL<br />
<br />12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Need to send out a search party? ;)<br />
<br />[12:12] Ubit Umarov: Dayturn said will not suport BoM for now :p<br />
<br />[12:12] Bill Blight: Yes even if we get FS "opensim" releases in the future, they are going to be "take what you get"<br />
<br />[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not a prio right now, but will get there<br />
<br />[12:13] Ubit Umarov: ( opensim viewers may need improvements on viewer side baking also like 1024px suport )<br />
<br />[12:13] Bill Blight: The viewer I'm working on for testing, unless it is a major fix, I've started moving farther and farther away from stock FS<br />
<br />[12:13] Arielle Popstar: anyone talk to Henri about his cool viewer which is supposed to be able to use whichever bake system is in effect for a region?<br />
<br />[12:13] Ubit Umarov: Ariellle we can't talk with people that don't talk to us<br />
<br />[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: henri's viewer is based on the old version 1 viewer code<br />
<br />[12:13] Bill Blight: Not "Whichever" but BoM or not BoM<br />
<br />[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: both structually, libs, UI and code<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: even lanani refuses to talk with me<br />
<br />[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is almost impossible to just use it<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: so.. well whatever<br />
<br />[12:14] Arielle Popstar: well might be a reason for that?<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: yeah ppl "have reasons"<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: of course<br />
<br />[12:15] Arielle Popstar: maybe something you said made her hesitant to talk with you?<br />
<br />[12:15] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br />[12:15] Arielle Popstar: ^^<br />
<br />[12:15] Bill Blight: Maybe insisting that her stuff is better but providing no patches might turn some people off as well ..<br />
<br />[12:16] Arielle Popstar: think that was after the fact<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: worse is no issues reports<br />
<br />[12:16] Bill Blight: she has never provided patches, so , hard to be "after the fact"<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: grids find issues and tell nothing<br />
<br />[12:16] Arielle Popstar: was she an opensim dev in past who did submit patches that wwere all rejjected?<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: but well nothing new on that wither<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: either<br />
<br />[12:17] Ubit Umarov: patchs are suposed to be rejected<br />
<br />[12:17] Arielle Popstar: why?<br />
<br />[12:17] Ubit Umarov: because that is how it is<br />
<br />[12:17] Ubit Umarov: basic..<br />
<br />[12:17] Arielle Popstar: they6 are supposed to be accepted unless they cause a bug<br />
<br />[12:18] Bill Blight: The percentage of patches that get accepted to ANY open source project is insanely low, and people need to understand that just because you say and think it is better, it may not be so<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: some days ago a author did deleted some from mantis<br />
<br />[12:18] Bill Blight: no they are not SUPPOSED to be accepted<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: we did made them visible again<br />
<br />[12:18] Kayaker Magic: Wait, you say only suff supplied as patches can be accepted, but you will reject them all?<br />
<br />[12:18] Arielle Popstar: Bill, you are doing a piss poor job of beating up on Ubity<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: bc beening refuse on core does not mean others can't use them on special cases<br />
<br />[12:18] Bill Blight: I only beat up on him when he deserves it<br />
<br />[12:18] Bill Blight: (and when I feel like it :P )<br />
<br />[12:19] Ubit Umarov: we have several like that<br />
<br />[12:19] Ubit Umarov: where refused but there, and some ppl do use on special cases<br />
<br />[12:19] Bill Blight: but there have been a few patches accepted over the past few months<br />
<br />[12:19] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, I seem to recall that there is a procedure for becoming a core dev that starts with submitting patches, if enough of them get accepted then you can be invitded to core. But if all patches are rejected.... catch 22<br />
<br />[12:20] Arielle Popstar: for spelling mistakes?<br />
<br />[12:20] Bill Blight: the problem is , many patches don't take into account the varying use cases of opensim, and may work great for one set of users and totally screw another set.<br />
<br />[12:20] Arielle Popstar: well BoM is like that<br />
<br />[12:20] Arielle Popstar: but that made it in<br />
<br />[12:20] Bill Blight: BoM is also a Second LIfe thing, which without that, there would be no Opensimulatr<br />
<br />[12:20] Arielle Popstar: it screws anyone not on .9.1<br />
<br />[12:21] Ubit Umarov: err no BoM is some viewer for opensim thing<br />
<br />[12:21] Arielle Popstar: if we not using their most recent viewer release and cant get code to fix it for us, then the point is moot<br />
<br />[12:21] Bill Blight: how does it screw anyone? Only has issues if you are using it and try to go to a NON BoM sim, and that is a conscious decision ..<br />
<br />[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think BoM support is a bit rushed as it is<br />
<br />[12:22] Ubit Umarov: rushed??<br />
<br />[12:22] Bill Blight: how so?<br />
<br />[12:22] Arielle Popstar: it means a tiny segment may use it<br />
<br />[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: premature<br />
<br />[12:22] Bill Blight: It is released in SL<br />
<br />[12:22] Arielle Popstar: different scenerio<br />
<br />[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: well, LL can enforce conformity pretty fast on their single grid<br />
<br />[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in opensim that is unpossible<br />
<br />[12:22] Arielle Popstar: they changed all their sims in one day to support it<br />
<br />[12:23] Ubit Umarov: and how in hell can viewer devs test it on opensim fi opensim does not have it?<br />
<br />[12:23] Ubit Umarov: really gavin...<br />
<br />[12:23] Arielle Popstar: by using a branch?<br />
<br />[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you don't have to implmente it just because it is in SL<br />
<br />[12:23] Ubit Umarov: chicken/egg thing<br />
<br />[12:23] Arielle Popstar: isnt that what branches are for?<br />
<br />[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is what branches are for<br />
<br />[12:23] Ubit Umarov: that is up to me and other opensim devs to decide<br />
<br />[12:24] Bill Blight: Would it matter if it was a branch?<br />
<br />[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in reality there is not a single developer in opensim relying on it<br />
<br />[12:24] Ubit Umarov: if on branch or on a full release..<br />
<br />[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it only supports botted stuff<br />
<br />[12:24] Ubit Umarov: that is out call..<br />
<br />[12:24] Arielle Popstar: well surely you are sensitive to the needs and best interests of the community<br />
<br />[12:24] Bill Blight: umm<br />
<br />[12:24] Ubit Umarov: .. our..<br />
<br />[12:24] Bill Blight: works fine with Ruth/Roth<br />
<br />[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no it does not work fine when it can't be used across opensim versions and or viewers<br />
<br />[12:25] Arielle Popstar: the 10% that use them?<br />
<br />[12:25] Ubit Umarov: and see anything broken because regions happen to suport BoM ?<br />
<br />[12:25] Bill Blight: you mean like when we first got mesh, or first got bento , or or or or<br />
<br />[12:25] Arielle Popstar: no which make me wonder about your stalling ther FS release<br />
<br />[12:25] Arielle Popstar: but there is issues with viewer cache<br />
<br />[12:25] Ubit Umarov: FS release is on hold because they do not have a opensim Dev<br />
<br />[12:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer cache in FS is a royal mess<br />
<br />[12:26] Arielle Popstar: they never needed a specific one before<br />
<br />[12:26] Bill Blight: Same tired argument when bento hit, "My viewer does not work with it" , "I see messed up avatars"<br />
<br />[12:26] Ubit Umarov: viewers MUST have opensim code to be used on opensim<br />
<br />[12:26] Arielle Popstar: the opensim one does have the code<br />
<br />[12:26] Arielle Popstar: for opensim<br />
<br />[12:26] Bill Blight: umm no it doesn't<br />
<br />[12:26] Bill Blight: the OS branch does not have BoM<br />
<br />[12:26] Arielle Popstar: and are you stalling cool or Sing?<br />
<br />[12:27] Ubit Umarov: but fs does not have all needed code to work on opensim<br />
<br />[12:27] Bill Blight: not of FS<br />
<br />[12:27] Arielle Popstar: have you even talked to the dev's of those viewers?<br />
<br />[12:27] Ubit Umarov: where are they ?<br />
<br />[12:27] Bill Blight: Talked to Liru a few times<br />
<br />[12:27] Arielle Popstar: go to their groups or other meeting places<br />
<br />[12:27] Ubit Umarov: i tried to talk with liru.. only got "not my thing"<br />
<br />[12:27] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br />[12:28] Ubit Umarov: and our meeting place is here<br />
<br />[12:28] Arielle Popstar: didnt sienna geearz used to be on IRC?<br />
<br />[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are all busy trying to keep up with SL development<br />
<br />[12:28] Ubit Umarov: who wants to talk with opensim dev must be on opensim meeting places<br />
<br />[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which in itself is a full time job<br />
<br />[12:28] Ubit Umarov: that again is pure basics<br />
<br />[12:28] Ubit Umarov: gavin is here.. thanks gavin :p<br />
<br />[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yw<br />
<br />[12:29] Arielle Popstar: well remember LL suplies them with code fo new features, Opensim doesnt<br />
<br />[12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: moving at turtle speed, but<br />
<br />[12:29] Ubit Umarov: i don't see LL people going to all viewers meeting "places"<br />
<br />[12:29] Arielle Popstar: not seen you in their viewer meetings....<br />
<br />[12:29] Ubit Umarov: of course not<br />
<br />[12:29] Ubit Umarov: im not a SL viewer dev<br />
<br />[12:30] Arielle Popstar: so how would you know who goes there?<br />
<br />[12:30] Arielle Popstar: i've been and I know there are viewer devs there<br />
<br />[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let's be honest about it, if not for SL there would probably not be any viewer development at all.<br />
<br />[12:30] Ubit Umarov: bc now and then i do talk with some who went there<br />
<br />[12:30] Ubit Umarov: duhhh<br />
<br />[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit cannot go the the SL meetings for the same reasons I cant<br />
<br />[12:31] Ubit Umarov: this talk is back on "silly" moments :)<br />
<br />[12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we are not SL developers or supporting LLs business model<br />
<br />[12:31] Ubit Umarov: well on dev there where also some bug fixes<br />
<br />[12:31] Bill Blight: Why doesn't Lanani come to these meetings to talk about her "Improvements"<br />
<br />[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps now would be a good time to wrap up the meeting for today. We are now half past the hour again.<br />
<br />[12:31] Arielle Popstar: good question Bill<br />
<br />[12:31] Arielle Popstar: i've asked<br />
<br />[12:32] Arielle Popstar: but have seen her come to some<br />
<br />[12:32] Ubit Umarov: Yengine had a issue with some timer things<br />
<br />[12:32] Bill Blight: I'm saying you are getting down on Ubit for things, that your hero is also guilty of ..<br />
<br />[12:32] Arielle Popstar: she has been here Bill and yuo know that<br />
<br />[12:32] Bill Blight: once or twice and she brought her own soap box<br />
<br />[12:33] Arielle Popstar: she also sees him at the Osg town hall meeting<br />
<br />[12:33] Arielle Popstar: has she submitted patches ?<br />
<br />[12:33] Ubit Umarov: well any more opensim issues to talk about?<br />
<br />[12:33] Bill Blight: NOt that I am aware of<br />
<br />[12:34] Arielle Popstar: asking Ubit<br />
<br />[12:34] Arielle Popstar: as he would have rejected them<br />
<br />[12:34] Ubit Umarov: mantis is public go see<br />
<br />[12:34] Bill Blight: patches should be submitted via the Mantis<br />
<br />[12:34] Ubit Umarov: well any more opensim issues to talk about?<br />
<br />[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. I'll call this meeting concluded for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-11-26T20:24:07Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (19.00 UTC if grid time is PST or 18:00 UTC if it is PDT) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-26]]<br />
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== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
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'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-11-05Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-052019-11-05T20:39:10Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[10:45] Ubit Umarov: so adding BoM to dayturn gavin?<br />
<br>[10:45] Ubit Umarov hides<br />
<br>[10:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It will hit you with a big BOM one of these days!<br />
<br>[10:46] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[10:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apart from supporting copybotters I frankly don't see much urgency for it right now<br />
<br>[10:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but I might be wrong<br />
<br>[10:47] Melanie Milland: no idea what you're talking about<br />
<br>[10:47] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Why not just use Lanani's code people seem to think she has BoM without viewer support<br />
<br>[10:47] Ubit Umarov: bet sacrarium will start to fill with BoM things<br />
<br>[10:47] Ubit Umarov: gavin hit Bill with your BOM thing<br />
<br>[10:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has anyone looked at her changes?<br />
<br>[10:47] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeah, yeah<br />
<br>[10:48] Melanie Milland: whatever BoM is<br />
<br>[10:48] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Bake On Mesh<br />
<br>[10:48] Melanie Milland: ahja<br />
<br>[10:48] Ubit Umarov: i stopped looking whe she removed lludp throttles<br />
<br>[10:48] Melanie Milland: see i wasn't in here for so long<br />
<br>[10:48] Melanie Milland: i'm missing stuff<br />
<br>[10:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a spillover from SL<br />
<br>[10:48] Melanie Milland: yes<br />
<br>[10:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where it is the latest fad<br />
<br>[10:49] Melanie Milland: i had a version of my own that's still in the codebase<br />
<br>[10:49] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Her code Applies base textures from the system level, it does not bake them as BoM does so still individual texture calls, twice as many actually<br />
<br>[10:49] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Lanani that is<br />
<br>[10:49] Melanie Milland: the advantage of the code i have is that it works pretty much transparently<br />
<br>[10:49] Ubit Umarov: yeah ll BoM is a bit more complex<br />
<br>[10:49] Melanie Milland: so you just wear stuff normally<br />
<br>[10:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that would be ideal Melanie<br />
<br>[10:50] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: BoM takes 11 texture calls and makes it one ..<br />
<br>[10:50] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: (I think it is 11)<br />
<br>[10:50] Ubit Umarov: No<br />
<br>[10:50] Ubit Umarov: it makes up to 11 :p<br />
<br>[10:50] Ubit Umarov: from up to 65 i think<br />
<br>[10:50] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeah had that backwards<br />
<br>[10:51] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org needs more coffee<br />
<br>[10:51] Ubit Umarov: it just went back to classic wearables<br />
<br>[10:51] Ubit Umarov: each can define a texture for a avatar part<br />
<br>[10:52] Ubit Umarov: baking code cooks all them per each bake part<br />
<br>[10:52] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: so ends up one per layer, right, I think that is where my brain got confused , I think anyway<br />
<br>[10:52] Ubit Umarov: and only one is distributed<br />
<br>[10:52] Ubit Umarov: upper body, head.. etc<br />
<br>[10:52] Ubit Umarov: up to 11 of those parts<br />
<br>[10:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if anyone can point me to a video explaining BoM<br />
<br>[10:52] Ubit Umarov: or bakes<br />
<br>[10:52] Ubit Umarov: use google :p<br />
<br>[10:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: google does not get anywhere near my machines<br />
<br>[10:53] Ubit Umarov: well with normal wearables it is still at most 5 or 6 bakes<br />
<br>[10:53] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8TYa8RHcs<br />
<br>[10:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: except for YT<br />
<br>[10:53] Ubit Umarov: that works fine even on older versions of opensim<br />
<br>[10:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apr 9, 2018<br />
<br>[10:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: this video is terrible<br />
<br>[10:54] Ubit Umarov: but they added a new wearable called Universal..<br />
<br>[10:54] Ubit Umarov: that can define more baked textures<br />
<br>[10:54] Ubit Umarov: up to 11 now<br />
<br>[10:54] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Then find one yourself , geeze<br />
<br>[10:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a video which is made with the released version and not being a commercial for all kinds of products<br />
<br>[10:55] Ubit Umarov: and viewers do send them on a pack with 45 texture entires now<br />
<br>[10:55] Ubit Umarov: old opensim only supports 32<br />
<br>[10:56] Ubit Umarov: ok made all fall asleep again?<br />
<br>[10:56] Melanie Milland: zzzzzZZZZZ<br />
<br>[10:56] Sheera Khan: nope ;-)<br />
<br>[10:56] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit Umarov: SL goal is to reduce the need for those crazy onion mesh avatars<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit Umarov: etc<br />
<br>[10:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I get that and agree<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit Umarov: also no need for alpha layers<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit Umarov: viewers do them automaticly<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit Umarov: well some<br />
<br>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What's new at Kitely?<br />
<br>[11:00] Ubit Umarov: im wearing a BoM mesh<br />
<br>[11:00] Ubit Umarov: im so pretty no?<br />
<br>[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: They hope to be able to publicize efucational uses at Kitely soo<br />
<br>[11:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: soon<br />
<br>[11:01] Ubit Umarov: thats the thing on ground<br />
<br>[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What does that mean Selby?<br />
<br>[11:01] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org blinks<br />
<br>[11:01] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Big waves to everyone<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, Melanie. Quite a surprise to see you here. Welcome.<br />
<br>[11:02] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: re SL: I can now report this morning that Linden Lab has laid off staff as part of what appears to be a significant reorganization and reallocation of staff resources. My source (who shall remain anonymous, but whom I consider a good source) tells me that 30 people were let go. The rumour mill this weekend has been saying that 20 to 30 people were laid off, so the figure would appear to be accurate.<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Waves and Beaches!<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit looks like he's got a major sunburn in his face<br />
<br>[11:02] Ubit Umarov: oh?<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Sansar staff?<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You need a newer viewer program.<br />
<br>[11:03] Ubit Umarov: we knew they did hired rendering devs for sl<br />
<br>[11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes - sansar but more:<br />
<br>[11:03] Ubit Umarov: one senior<br />
<br>[11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I heard a rumour Linden Lab got bought, about two/three weeks ago; I don’t fully trust the source (it was definitely a rumour), but that’d explain it.<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I wonder who would pick up that wreck<br />
<br>[11:04] Sheera Khan: https://ryanschultz.com/2019/11/04/linden-lab-lays-off-staff/<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thanks for the link<br />
<br>[11:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: It could have been for sale cheap.<br />
<br>[11:04] Sheera Khan: And Nyx Linden seems to have vanished...<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The LL people that got laid off worked on SL or their other new offering?<br />
<br>[11:07] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I hope Firestorm people read the handwriting on the wall<br />
<br>[11:08] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The LL peopl worked on Sansar -- That might be cosidered the new offering<br />
<br>[11:08] Kayaker Magic: OK, let's talk about OpenSim! What do you all think about my patch to add osPermissionToCall to the OSSL functions? (mantis 8618)<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: ( seems gavin is using Dayturn ..)<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov hides<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he does<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: what made it crash? :p<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is some strange interaction between safari 13 and the viewer which kills the connection<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually it is not strange at all because the SL plugin is a particularly hairy piece of software<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: well about LL my concerns are will show up on viewers<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: making things even harder<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how so?<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: or things deleted from viewers<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: the usual problem gavin.Hird<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: like the EEP things<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you know my biggest concern is they write a new renderer and close source it<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: that may happen also<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: and if owner of LL changed, all policies may change<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: lets see<br />
<br>[11:12] Melanie Milland: the time is long past to divorce from the sl viewers<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, the patch is simple enough. One question I have is whether that is the best name to use for the function.<br />
<br>[11:12] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I like osPerm2Use<br />
<br>[11:12] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: much shorter<br />
<br>[11:12] Melanie Milland: i'm not convinced of that name<br />
<br>[11:13] Melanie Milland: although it fits in with lllist2List etc<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov hits Bill with a large BOM<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, or something like IsAllowed<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: someone should make a particle BOM thingy<br />
<br>[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill Of Materials? (sorry, been doing too much engineering work lately) :)<br />
<br>[11:14] Melanie Milland: yeah that was the first thing that came to my mind<br />
<br>[11:14] Melanie Milland: but the talk didn't fit in twith that meaning<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org pats his stack of materials that he is of ...<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: :P<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: BoM has a bom<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is sort a bill or materials if you think about it<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: i just used the BOM gavin tried to throw at me :)<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, true<br />
<br>[11:15] Melanie Milland: BOM, EBOM, MBOM.....<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... I don't know those last two.<br />
<br>[11:16] Melanie Milland: Engineering BOM and Manufacturing BOM<br />
<br>[11:17] Melanie Milland: the EBOM comes from CAD data<br />
<br>[11:17] Kayaker Magic: Well, pick another name for llPermissionToCall, I'm agnostic about that, I'd like to see the functionality by any name.<br />
<br>[11:17] Melanie Milland: whereas the MBOM comes from apps like ProcessSimulate<br />
<br>[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Melanie, ok. ty<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but you also have BOMB<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which goes BOM<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: but ok... so Andrew what's new on opensim?<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: where do we get your new BoM viewer Bill?<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, It would be better to ask the person who is doing most of the coding. ;)<br />
<br>[11:19] Kayaker Magic: OK, moving on: I wanted to have Gavin and Ubit talk about why YEngine does not work on ARM processors.<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: click the dancing BoM guy out front<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have no idea kayaker because I have not tried it<br />
<br>[11:20] Kayaker Magic: I tried running it again and saving the log, YEngine just stops responging and OpenSim never finishes coming up.<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: the one with the text over it's head that says to download the viewer<br />
<br>[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok ty<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: and i will break my droid phone :p<br />
<br>[11:20] Kayaker Magic: I see nothing in the log except "setting YEngine to default"<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was acutally planning to try make it work<br />
<br>[11:20] Kayaker Magic: What needs to be done?<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: well not much i can do with that info :(<br />
<br>[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hgluv been having issues and wondering if its with the viewer cache code or people visiting with the BoM viewer<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have no idea right now<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There have been a number of miscellaneous bug fixes to OpenSim in the last week and several fixes related to YEngine.<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: guess that ARM issue will take some deep debuging<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: sure it is Y ?<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Is there a downloadable version of mono for ARM or did you have to compile mono for the ARM based system?<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002 flüstert: did you just take the 0.9.1 release and substitute the libs and then run it?<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apt install mono<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: installs mono 6.4.x<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at least on rasbian which is Debian<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok, good. Saves having to compile mono for ARM. I could give it a try on my Pi 4 if I can find some time.<br />
<br>[11:23] Kayaker Magic: I apt-get'ed the mono that was supposed to be for my version of Linux.<br />
<br>[11:23] Kayaker Magic: mono was able to compile a recent version of OpenSim and run it, with libraries from Gavin.<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: many distros use old mono versions.. or used...<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: opensim needs at least 5x as you know<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Oh, my mono is 5.18<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: should work then<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm ok. I have 6.4.0<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I intend to test run the 0.9.1 release on the Pi, but till I have done I'm blank<br />
<br>[11:25] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I have 6.4 on my x86 system<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: about code state<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: yes a made a few bug fixes about issues ppl reported after release ( of course )<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: expect more :p<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: have change that will make me get killed<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It wouldn't be the first time.<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: ie to limit the max number of a attachments to 38, as viewer limit<br />
<br>[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: This Yengine is not hypergrid compatible?<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: but allow all on same point<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: as viewers expect<br />
<br>[11:27] Kayaker Magic: I have no problems with YEngine and HG on x86 processors.<br />
<br>[11:28] Melanie Milland: script engines and HG are not related<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Here is a question for you about YEngine. What result do you get if you do "if (some_key_var)" where some_key_var is set to NULL_KEY?<br />
<br>[11:28] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Yenging is perfectly HG compatible ... Just if you HG from Y to X or X to Y , you should expect strange behavior ..<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: as long as the destination region also defaulting to Yengine?<br />
<br>[11:28] Melanie Milland: you get false<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: yeah it does that as SL does ( not as X does )<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Melanie, ok. That wasn't handled properly in XEngine.<br />
<br>[11:29] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org flüstert: Y to Y works perfectly fine local or HG<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: on X you need to compare explicity<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: can it mess with the destination grid if mismatched then?<br />
<br>[11:29] Melanie Milland: the script engine and HG relate only in the way that you have to program your script in a way that sidesteps the differences<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have a patch for that for XEngine but never pushed that to master because it was considered controversial at the time.<br />
<br>[11:29] Melanie Milland: else the destination grid will simply not be able to compile the script<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but won't break anything on the region itself like BoM?<br />
<br>[11:30] Melanie Milland: no<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok<br />
<br>[11:30] Melanie Milland: the script is recompiled on TP<br />
<br>[11:31] Melanie Milland: so it can only do what the destination engine allows<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: good X code should compile ok on Y<br />
<br>[11:31] Kayaker Magic: It is possible for a bad programmer to write FORTRAN in any language....<br />
<br>[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: True but there is a lot of bad X code out there.<br />
<br>[11:31] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Only issue is script states, X to Y, mostly ok, Y to X , state lost<br />
<br>[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Most people wouldn't know if the X code is good or bad if it appears to be working.<br />
<br>[11:32] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeap<br />
<br>[11:32] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: LOL<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: well will learn the hard way :p<br />
<br>[11:32] Melanie Milland: most X scripts expect state loss<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods<br />
<br>[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is there a way where something like an ao can restart after hg jumping to another grid without having to rewear the ao?<br />
<br>[11:33] Melanie Milland: on arrival, the script gets recompiled and reset<br />
<br>[11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: (that's what they made viewer AO's for, to eliminate that problem)<br />
<br>[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: use the viewer ao<br />
<br>[11:33] Melanie Milland: it should init and run then<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i dont like the viewer ao's because often the walks dont work right<br />
<br>[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when FS release their next version there will be a number of improvements to viewer ao behavior<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: especially in FS<br />
<br>[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Other HUDs besides AOs also often fail on a region crossing, TP or HG jump.<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: that too Kay<br />
<br>[11:34] Melanie Milland: i don't know why everyone loves FS so much<br />
<br>[11:34] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Most of those fixes are already in my test viewer<br />
<br>[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah<br />
<br>[11:34] Kayaker Magic: It is a race condition: Sometimes the script is not compiled in the destination region.<br />
<br>[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but you can't release till they have Bill<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: well and about HG and TPs we can only talk about both regions on 0.91<br />
<br>[11:35] Bill Blight: lol, LGPL license does not prohibit that<br />
<br>[11:35] Bill Blight: they can say that all they want<br />
<br>[11:35] Melanie Milland: and i wish the viewer codebase that I donated and diva rewrote to c# would finally see use<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: to/from older versions.. well..<br />
<br>[11:35] Bill Blight: but per the license they can't stop you<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i thought it couldnt be used?<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: @Mel<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true Bill, but be nice<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought viewer AOs use animations available in ones inventory so use of viewer AO shouldn't not mess up a walk.<br />
<br>[11:35] Bill Blight: but my viewer is only for testing, currently<br />
<br>[11:35] Melanie Milland: diva rewrote it to c#/xenko<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[11:36] Melanie Milland: no idea how far it got<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I said release<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a difference ;-)<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: has Diva been around?<br />
<br>[11:36] Melanie Milland: i've skyped with her<br />
<br>[11:36] Melanie Milland: but she's been scarce in irc<br />
<br>[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't seen her in IRC in quite a while.<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: https://github.com/opensim/opensim-viewer<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not touching it with a pitch fork<br />
<br>[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: nothing new on it in 11 months<br />
<br>[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: 10<br />
<br>[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is there a core branch with the additional modules?<br />
<br>[11:41] Melanie Milland: why are you saying you won't touch it?<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it does not run on macOS or iOS ever<br />
<br>[11:41] Melanie Milland: not true<br />
<br>[11:41] Melanie Milland: xenki is multiplatform<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: does it work on android?<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: last time I checked no macOS<br />
<br>[11:42] Melanie Milland: it doesn't target devices<br />
<br>[11:42] Melanie Milland: but runs on all three PC platforms<br />
<br>[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: It uses xenko now? I knew there was talk of basing it on something else than Unity(IIRC).<br />
<br>[11:42] Melanie Milland: at least i think I saw mac support in the source<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: ( Xenko )<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the reaosn why LL has to lay off people is because they hace completely failed to address the mobile market<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is where all the growth is<br />
<br>[11:43] Bill Blight: from their faq, "Xenko currently supports Windows, Android, iOS, Xbox One and Universal Windows Platforms (UWP). "<br />
<br>[11:43] Melanie Milland: mobile devices are still not powerful enough for a full experience<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bull<br />
<br>[11:43] Melanie Milland: i know it runs on linux. i use it there<br />
<br>[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how powerful was the device in 2010 that provided the full experience?<br />
<br>[11:44] Melanie Milland: you have to cross-compile on windows, though<br />
<br>[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well Lumiya is broken for core too<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill Blight: "Xenko also supports most popular VR headsets and has experimental support for Linux."<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill Blight: forgot to post te second half<br />
<br>[11:44] Melanie Milland: ok, so no mac<br />
<br>[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so opensim doesnt support mobile any longer either<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: experimental? hm... Probably leaves me out as it did before.<br />
<br>[11:44] Melanie Milland: i don't use it on mac i just thought i saw something in the code there<br />
<br>[11:45] Bill Blight: I disagree for an "opensim" experience, considering te Oculus Quest is just a mobile android device, the horsepower is there<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: not much we can do about lumiya when its dev stopped working on it<br />
<br>[11:45] Bill Blight: just a matter of getting proper access to it.<br />
<br>[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well think the prob is server side<br />
<br>[11:45] Melanie Milland: the oculus is much more powerful than a mobile phone<br />
<br>[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so could be made to work again<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: server side clearly does not scale for a mobile audience<br />
<br>[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: The Xenko site doesn't make it easy to find the system requirements needed to be able use it.<br />
<br>[11:46] Bill Blight: Display panel: OLED.<br />
<br>Display resolution: 1440 x 1600 per eye (Oculus Rift had 1080×1200 per eye)<br />
<br>72Hz refresh rate.<br />
<br>Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processor.<br />
<br>4GB RAM.<br />
<br>Lithium-ion battery with 2-3 hours playtime, depending on what you are playing.<br />
<br>[11:46] Bill Blight: pretty much same as my LG phone<br />
<br>[11:46] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: we could work with lumiya dev if there was one..<br />
<br>[11:46] Melanie Milland: then i guess you have a modern phone<br />
<br>[11:46] Melanie Milland: not everyone does<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is plenty of power on handsets and tablets to provide a - maybe not stellar, but good experience<br />
<br>[11:47] Melanie Milland: a 2 year old device just coming out of contract would be too slow i think<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: by the time you have it developed you have another 2 generations of handset in the market<br />
<br>[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i've used the Lumiya VR mode and found it worked ok<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: no going to do blind server side changes with no idea what the issue is<br />
<br>[11:48] Kayaker Magic: Lumiya seems to be abandoned, I cannot get a copy for my new cellphone.<br />
<br>[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well i get the crash issue to send to the dev but not figured out how to divert it to you<br />
<br>[11:48] Melanie Milland: i fail to see the point on a phone<br />
<br>[11:48] Melanie Milland: tablets, sure<br />
<br>[11:49] Melanie Milland: but phone screens are a bit small<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: phone act as a gaming device sending output to a TV<br />
<br>[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: https://lumiya.en.aptoide.com<br />
<br>[11:49] Melanie Milland: at least at my age, tiny stuff becomes indescernible<br />
<br>[11:50] Melanie Milland: anyway, i'm ducking out early<br />
<br>[11:50] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Phone and tablets are just connection points between people to interact with. Big complex worlds with lots of detail arent that important. Think communication and interaction.<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Melanie. Thanks for coming. See you again another time.<br />
<br>[11:50] Melanie Milland: so maybe it's not the final choice<br />
<br>[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: use the phone headsets, then it becomes big<br />
<br>[11:50] Melanie Milland: but now it's DINNERTIME!<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Agreed Leighton<br />
<br>[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: $10 nowadays<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bon apetit<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Enjoy<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: newer version Kay https://apk.support/app/com.lumiyaviewer.lumiya<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: 3.4.2 is the newest<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well seems a viewer declared to safely suport opensim BoM<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1967&start=30#p9540<br />
<br>[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Do I have time to bring up a 0.9.1 issue?<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour. Starting a countdown. It is now just over 5 weeks remaining until this years running of the OSCC.<br />
<br>[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: "The Cool VL Viewer is now officially the first viewer to fully support bake-on-mesh in OpenSim."<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: they say<br />
<br>[11:54] Ai Austin: worked second time<br />
<br>[11:54] Kayaker Magic: I am running the 0.9.1 release on OSGrid and having a problem with the INI files.<br />
<br>[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: says it will be able to use the proper baking depending on the region release<br />
<br>[11:55] Ai Austin: I hung for two minutes on first TP attempt<br />
<br>[11:55] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: would have been nice if henri had been here himself<br />
<br>[11:55] Kayaker Magic: The new GridCommon.ini defines services, like FriendsServerURI that I never had in my old ini files.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: 0.91 Snail does provide necessary information for viewers to identify it suports full BoM<br />
<br>[11:56] Kayaker Magic: If I leave them in, they get defined wrong for OSGrid (which uses sub-domains) and then I get timeouts and errors starting Opensim.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: well i didn't tested it.. just passing the information :)<br />
<br>[11:56] Kayaker Magic: If I comment out the services I don't have a URL for, then it starts OK.<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: for osgrid you need to use their settings<br />
<br>[11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: why wasnt there a pre realease anyway? Thjats the usual flow<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: better just use their distro<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: was going to say, osgrids INI files define them correctly<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: they still organize ini files in a diferent way<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: [FriendsService]<br />
<br> ;<br />
<br> ; Change this to your grid-wide friends server<br />
<br> ;<br />
<br> FriendsServerURI = "http://friends.osgrid.org"<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: so a mix can cause issues<br />
<br>[11:58] Kayaker Magic: OSGrid distro has a 5 year old set of INI files that is nothing like the new ones, I'm trying to upgrade.<br />
<br>[11:58] Kayaker Magic: Where did you learn that Bill?<br />
<br>[11:58] Bill Blight: http://download.osgrid.org/GridCommon.ini.txt<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: make 2 installations - one for OSG and one for the rest<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: the code is ours<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then you don't have to mix ini files<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but ini files are theirs, and as bill said, old formats<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ( with new things added )<br />
<br>[11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: people look at the osg one or use it to convert to a more recent release for other than osgrid<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well we did a release now :)<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: possible a 0.9.1.1 not far<br />
<br>[12:00] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes but at the rate of putting them out, it will be another year? :)<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: depending on issues reports<br />
<br>[12:00] Kayaker Magic: I'm trying to make an INI file I load after the example ones that overrides all the wrong URLs with the right ones form OSGrid.<br />
<br>[12:00] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: will there be a post fixes ??<br />
<br>[12:01] Bill Blight: why not just use the INI's that come with the osgrid download?<br />
<br>[12:01] Bill Blight: they appear to be correct<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: im not using "postfixes" anymore<br />
<br>[12:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, make your ini file load all the ones from osgrid then you can put in the settings you want to change after the includes.<br />
<br>[12:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: executive decision?<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: next release will be 0.9.1.1 and may be mostly fixes<br />
<br>[12:01] Ai Austin: I mentioned to Ubit that we would usually label the dev master 0.9.2.0 and postfixes would be 0.9.1.1 ... But ...;-)<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 0.9.1.1 sounds good to me<br />
<br>[12:02] Ai Austin: It was Diva who added the fourth digit for that remember<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: master is working thing<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: so its work 0 0.9.1.1. :p<br />
<br>[12:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats the reasoning behind changing how Opensim has done things for the past 12 years?<br />
<br>[12:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: was it broken?<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I didn't like "post-fixes" because it often came out before the actual release.<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so a pre-fix<br />
<br>[12:04] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but andrew, at least people knew what to expect<br />
<br>[12:04] Ai Austin: postfixes was just a label while development occurred was it noty. then it got releaseed as the next fourth digit +1 on the last release<br />
<br>[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, I didn't as it was counter-intuitive to how I would do things and to how a lot of other projects I'm using do things.<br />
<br>[12:06] Kayaker Magic: I agree with Arielle, there is a procedure (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Release_Cycle) and it does not seem to have been followed. Where was the discussion? Where was the release canidate?<br />
<br>[12:06] Ai Austin: Main thing is to make sure it got a new number... but I think all the recent zeros and ones look too similar !!<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I like the idea of a pre-fix; Fixing bugs before they have been released.<br />
<br>[12:06] Ai Austin: sound good Gavin. saves a lot of work :-)<br />
<br>[12:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes the release canditate was an important naming convention\\<br />
<br>[12:06] Ai Austin: unless someone actually has to fix then ;-)<br />
<br>[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: people knew it was for testing<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: We are now past the hour mark. Any last minute items for today?<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is sort of like losing weight while you eat<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that is what release candidates are used for.<br />
<br>[12:07] Ai Austin: I have a quick one for Arielle...<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Ai<br />
<br>[12:08] Ai Austin: HGLub grid uses the Nani version of OpenSim<br />
<br>[12:08] Ai Austin: is theer anything seriously different in there we ought to consider for core?<br />
<br>[12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: she is looking into an issue that seems to be getting triggered by the way the new code goes for the viewer cache<br />
<br>[12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it is messing with inventory when visitors get back to hgluv<br />
<br>[12:09] Ai Austin: that would be good, I have a few issues I have been mentioning to Ubit.. not pinned them down yet as I am travelling so my setup is not my usual kit<br />
<br>[12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: she is still trying to pin down the exact flow for the problem<br />
<br>[12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: her and Nani are both looking into it<br />
<br>[12:10] Ai Austin: good.<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it would be immensely more helpful if she actually published her changes and not just a file dump<br />
<br>[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but Hy just informed me it isnt because of Bill's BoM viewer so thats good<br />
<br>[12:11] Ai Austin: when I get back to Edinburgh I will do more etsyign on what I am seeing too. I had some wierd ones where textures never show unless I clear cache and a second viewer on one desktop did not show a second avatar when logged in<br />
<br>[12:12] Ai Austin: I am using a bog standard FS 6,.3.2.58056 just compiled as is with OpenSim fflag as a comparison as well as Bill's OpenStorm<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: if you use the same viewer to go to SL and to OS , they have been doing something with the cache over there that seems to screw with some people<br />
<br>[12:12] Ai Austin: ah, good to know Bill, thanks<br />
<br>[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok yes, i have used the viewer on both grids<br />
<br>[12:13] Bill Blight: It is not something nailed down, but many users on my grid have expressed the issue<br />
<br>[12:13] Kayaker Magic: SL, I don't go there any more. Next I will abandon RL, which takes up entirely too much of my time!<br />
<br>[12:13] Bill Blight: they clear cache, before logging in to OS or use viewers with different caches , and the problem goes away<br />
<br>[12:13] Ai Austin: much too overrated that RL<br />
<br>[12:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: :)<br />
<br>[12:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: still have to figure out how to upload ourselves here<br />
<br>[12:14] Ai Austin: I resisted using BoM to come along when Ubit invited me :-)<br />
<br>[12:14] Ai Austin: but I am VERY keen on BoM as we develop the next Release candidates for Ruth 2.0 and Roth 2.0 mesh bodies. That is underway<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: there was no BoM here before that :p<br />
<br>[12:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh and a poster in HGB asked for some links to more info on YEngine<br />
<br>[12:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is there a wiki anywhere/<br />
<br>[12:15] Ai Austin: I found 5 or so typical types of script errors I had to change when I switched to YEngne on my Ailand experimental grid<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: no<br />
<br>[12:16] Ai Austin: nothing serious, but they did need changing<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: and possible there will only be one, when its options are defined<br />
<br>[12:16] Ai Austin: Not so good for folks who don't have mod permissions<br />
<br>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Ai, care to document them for the OS wiki? :)<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: for now it is a X replacement<br />
<br>[12:16] Ai Austin: sure. I put them on a blog post alreday<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Where is the blog post?<br />
<br>[12:17] Kayaker Magic: Yes! I want to see this!<br />
<br>[12:17] Kayaker Magic: I'm finding very few issues with YEngine.<br />
<br>[12:17] Ai Austin: http://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/2019/10/28/opensim-0-9-1-0/#yengine<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Ai, ty<br />
<br>[12:18] Ai Austin: YW<br />
<br>[12:18] Kayaker Magic: Although I wrote most of my scripts to run on SL, IW and OpenSim, so found many minor syntax issues that way.<br />
<br>[12:18] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and Bill, didnt you have some Yengine info somewhere?<br />
<br>[12:18] Ai Austin: if anyone can think of best place to put them I will add the notes on OS wiki<br />
<br>[12:18] Ai Austin: should we have a conversion guide Ubit?<br />
<br>[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: It could be added to the end of the release notes for 0.9.1<br />
<br>[12:19] Ai Austin: happy to do that if Ubit is happy. he was annoyed at a note I added on the osslEnabled.ini change :-)<br />
<br>[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[12:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: somebody nudge Bill<br />
<br>[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: For now there is your blog post. Others can find that now that we have the URL in todays meeting log.<br />
<br>[12:20] Ai Austin: Good<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: Ai<br />
<br>[12:21] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I'm sure there was some info on a page of his too<br />
<br>[12:21] Bill Blight: I"ll see if I can find it again<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: break is not a LSL keyword<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: is it?<br />
<br>[12:21] Ai Austin: I know... but it clearly worked in XEngine<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: did nothing<br />
<br>[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: For the transcript there is a new macOS version fo the viewer with an updated vivox client that works much better on the Mac<br />
<br>[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Win version will follow shortly<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: X could accept odd things<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: break shouldn't be an LSL keyword as there is no programming structure in stock LSL that would use it.<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: without a error<br />
<br>[12:22] Ai Austin: I know.. it was in an XEngione script worked in XEngine - it was in a spacecraft flight controller (from lani grid)<br />
<br>[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: or is there. My LSL Fu is getting rusty.<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: and break is a Yengine keyword, using some options :p<br />
<br>[12:22] Ai Austin: skydancer shuttle<br />
<br>[12:23] Ai Austin: Precendence brackets were needed in a couple of places too - and some other things<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: better fix that blog :)<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: seems you are telling break is a legal LSL<br />
<br>[12:23] Ai Austin: I will add "not valid LSL but worked in XEngine"<br />
<br>[12:24] Ai Austin: if one script had it from someone and it worked I am sure it will turn up for others<br />
<br>[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Replacing break with return could have serious impact on a script as they are typically used in very different ways.<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: break is just a typo, bad script<br />
<br>[12:24] Ai Austin: okay, I added a note in the blog on that<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: proper fix requires reading it<br />
<br>[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Can't use break to exit a loop prematurely?<br />
<br>[12:25] Ai Austin: every spacecraft I had from lani region had the issue<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: well i don't remember it being a valid keyword<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: it will be on Y<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: X had odd things also<br />
<br>[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: LSL wiki doesn't mention continue or break.<br />
<br>[12:27] Ai Austin: I know. don't shoot the messenger :-)<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: some things just sneaked from LSL source to C# intermediate code<br />
<br>[12:27] Ai Austin: It was not my code!<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: so possible the break; did that<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: and on C# it is legal :)<br />
<br>[12:27] Ai Austin: Easily replaced. as I had mod rights<br />
<br>[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.<br />
<br>[12:28] Kayaker Magic: EOM, End Of Meeting<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: i almost made official the keyword Yoptions<br />
<br>[12:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302 is at S/L meeting too<br />
<br>[12:28] Ai Austin: I managed to track down all errors I was seeing on YEngine. One was tricky until Tampa gave me a way to get some hook on the item.<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: enabling new flow control<br />
<br>[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, You can do that in a later release. :)<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: and try cactch<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: but try catch has issues yeackk<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: actually finally() has issues<br />
<br>[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: new flow control would be useful. Not sure about adding in try/catch/finally.<br />
<br>[12:29] Ai Austin: Its good to find issues before we have hundreds of users hit them<br />
<br>[12:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: nods<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: yeah break is nice to have<br />
<br>[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, I'd vote for break and continue.<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: to have officially !!!<br />
<br>[12:30] Ai Austin: the diagnostics on YEngine were pretty good at giving pointers to object:script and x/y.z involved in most cases.. just a couple were not giving that data for the errors I hit<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:30] Ai Austin: There is a Mantis about that<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: as i said on that, some errors are hard to read :)<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: well the new keywords when public valid, will require a wiki for Y<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: of course<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: ( they are there.. ppl can play with them )<br />
<br>[12:32] Ai Austin: I was not arguing for different script engine constructs<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: of course more problems for scripts compatibility<br />
<br>[12:32] Ai Austin: just good to have advice for anythig that differs in case people try Engine<br />
<br>[12:33] Ubit Umarov: tps etc<br />
<br>[12:33] Ai Austin: Good to be able to go BACK to XEngine as well, so ideally we want script source compatibility<br />
<br>[12:33] Ubit Umarov: parsing order is also more sl like<br />
<br>[12:33] Ubit Umarov: some complex statements may give different results<br />
<br>[12:33] Ai Austin: Folks have asked for a few notes on what YEngine offers<br />
<br>[12:34] Ubit Umarov: but X did required extra () as those.. so..<br />
<br>[12:34] Ai Austin: I tend to add prioritizing parentheses in my code, but a lot of preexistent stuff assumes a left to right parse<br />
<br>[12:34] Ubit Umarov: always good to put them<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: no not be dependent on engine decisions<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: evaluation order etc<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: your example on binary & and == is such a case<br />
<br>[12:36] Ai Austin: yep<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-11-05Chat log from the meeting on 2019-11-052019-11-05T20:37:09Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with " Category:Office Hour Logs"</p>
<hr />
<div><br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-11-05T20:34:06Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 18:00 UTC, 19:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
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Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-10-29Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-292019-10-29T19:35:28Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Let's wait a few minutes before we get started to see who shows up.<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was already on my way but I had one last thing (or so I thought) to be done to upgrade a test grid to the new code release.<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Let's get started.<br />
<br>[11:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Just FYI, Crista has promised to update her official Wifi repo for 0.9.1.0. Not sure how soon, but hopefully soonish.<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone and welcome again to the weekly Open Simulator developer meeting.<br />
<br>[11:07] snik.snoodle @britgrid.com:8002: Thanks Andrew<br />
<br>[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some exciting news this week. We now have a new release of OpenSim. The 0.9.1 version has been released.<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: should be easy for her<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: both me and bill tested that, and worked<br />
<br>[11:08] snik.snoodle @britgrid.com:8002: Yes, thats excellent news<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was just updating the WiFi part of a 0.9.1 based test grid before I came here.<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: it is basicly changing to compile in .net4.6 as we said<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That, and some minor changes to avoid warnings on a couple of files. All well documented.<br />
<br>[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I'll make sure she knows. I rely on modules for which there is no source, so need to wait on Diva.<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: those warning don't show on default vs2017 :)<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good to know. I compiled 0.9.1 with WiFi and only had two warrnings related to the SMTP library being considered deprecated and being told to migrate to MailKit.<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: AI Austin also has a blog telling about that.. hmm somewhere<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: i mean how to run 0.9.0.0 wifi on 0.9.1<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: i mean how compile 0.9.0.0 wifi on 0.9.1<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I had been looking at using MailKit in OS to allow support of encryption to the SMTP servers.<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well that.. :)<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: Maria's post about 0.91 seems ok now<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It does.<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I obtained the Diva files from http://openvce.net/resources/downloads/diva-wifi/<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: unlike other programs we will make a full extensive list of changes, like including all the mantis numbers.. gezz<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: i mean we will NOT make...<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: 99% of ppl don't care..<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Probably not for some time. I was including that information when summarizing the megadump changes.<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: did we miss any major feature on release notes?<br />
<br>[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Auto-diffing INI files from last version? >:)<br />
<br>[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Not that I can think of off-hand.<br />
<br>[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org grins at Marcus<br />
<br>[11:17] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: only thing I noticed, is that support for the new estate panels was added<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: thats your part of the pain Marcus :p<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: the estate panel is there<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: but.. its such a minor thing<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I ran diffs of the OpenSim.ini and Robust.ini between 0.9.0.1 and 0.9.1 and there wasn't anything I had to do.<br />
<br>[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Inquiring minds want to know.<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: and viewerAssets.. disable just bc broken FS<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: etc<br />
<br>[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The biggest changes I noticed was in the osslEnable file.<br />
<br>[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: Because of new functions, or are there changes to how old and new are enabled?<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some new functions and there is also a few changes to the default permissions on some of the previously existing functions.<br />
<br>[11:21] Marcus Llewellyn nods amiably.<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: rebalance of default leveçs/rights etc<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: most new ossl aren't even there now<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: the have no level/rights to set<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: All the functions that are always enabled are no longer listed in the enable file. You are now directed to look at the web site.<br />
<br>[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: That doesn't sound laborious. :)<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: One less thing to keep up to date. :)<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Oh. One other important announcement.<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I believe this weekend is the one where the clocks in Canada (and the US?) change. That will affect the meeting time for those of you who are not in those countries.<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: bahh already changed in EU andrew<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The clock time changes always result in some people showing up an hour early or hour late when the clocks change.<br />
<br>[11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: As well as a discussion about what time zone we should all use. Let's not do that. lol<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Just thought I should mention it so people can keep it in mind.<br />
<br>[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Anyone mind if I say a few things about OSCC?<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: yeah we should use UTC<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: as a international platform<br />
<br>[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was thinking about mentioning that as its coming up in another month and a half. Go ahead, Marcus.<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: are its regions on 0.9.1 now?<br />
<br>[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: For now really just wanted to share that I finally, FINALLY have the access I need to do an upgrade. I've already gotten the OSCC grid up to 0.9.0.0, and am moving it to 0.9.1.0 as we speak.<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: any major issues converting things?<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: ok still on 0.900<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: The moves from 0.8.1.0 to 0.9.0.0 has been pretty painless. Only issues have been my own stupid little oopsies.<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Great news, Marcus. That grid has been lagging behind for the past couple of years. Nice to hear it is going to get up to date at last.<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: expect some issues on scripts, (NPCs) etc<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: rebalance on OSSL rights .. etc<br />
<br>[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: We truly haven't been happy about it either. But we managed to get Crista's ear this year, and the plan is to have 0.9.1.0 up this week.<br />
<br>[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah... scripts are something I'll watch out for. One of the expo regions has quite a few NPCs, so that''ll be my major canary there.<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's good. Plenty of time to catch any things that need tweaking before the start of the OSCC.<br />
<br>[11:34] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I'd suggest not doing much work on scripts or things until it is on the final version and remove the scriptengine cache<br />
<br>[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: We will also want to do a load test at some point. Haven't decided when yet.<br />
<br>[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Scriptcache is always nuked between versions.<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Been a while since there was a load test over there. It will be interesting to see how many avatars can get online at once.<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Marcus, you don't preserve script states?<br />
<br>[11:36] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: (even script states could be an issue with this magnitude of update)<br />
<br>[11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Not for the OSCC grid, no. Making certain things run correctly and cleanly trumps scripts states from a year ago.<br />
<br>[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good point. I will wipe out the directory in the test grid.<br />
<br>[11:38] dj phil: Rest assured I do not have an operational shoutcast right now<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Marcus, true. Not to mention scripts no longer being used in the region.<br />
<br>[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: The only other thing I guess I can say about OSCC is that submissions for proposals and volunteers are now open. We'd love to see you there. :)<br />
<br>[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thank you for the information, Marcus. Keep us updated on the progress of your grid updates and any load test.<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It would be a good idea to contact nebadon to let him know about any load test. He was able to bring a lot of avatars online to help boost the numbers.<br />
<br>[11:41] dj phil: Yeah, there is enough to ask questions ^^<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: The scripts he used are still on the grid service, I think. But this load test will have to be a purely "let's see how far we can push this" as opposed to the was we did it last time we did load tests, with justincc actively tweaking code.<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods<br />
<br>[11:43] dj phil: but luckily Ubit has not added osForceListenMusic (uuid) yet ^^<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: should be no issue.. acording to a FS dev opensim only has 5 users..<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It will be interesting to see how the grid holds up when a lot of people show up using mesh based avatars.<br />
<br>[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: That's two more than high fidelity has. ;)<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ohh good idea Phil<br />
<br>[11:44] dj phil: Wow finally i have good idea ^^<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: echo "add osForceListenMusic" > TODO.txt<br />
<br>[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: Mesh avatars have been common at the conference for the last couple years. But yeah, lots of code changes since then.<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Oh, good. Ubit now only has one item on the TODO list. :)<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: about npcs marcus.. they now do need rights to be on a parcel..<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: or may need..<br />
<br>[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: Hmm. Their names must be listed on restricted parcels?<br />
<br>[11:48] Bill Blight: Easiest way is make sure the NPC is a group member ..<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: Fred forgot that once and did got a funny piramid of NPCs are region edge :)<br />
<br>[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: heh<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: the pic was at old g+<br />
<br>[11:49] Pius Noel: Tuesday is the day I'm usually in my hacker space, so I cant attend here<br />
<br>[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: Fred is the one who prolly has the largest contingent of NPCs on the OSCC grid, so glad he's already aware of it.<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like a doc to summarize the things to watch out for when upgrading is needed if not already in the release notes.<br />
<br>[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Andrew<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: np, Plus. Happy to have you any time you can attend.<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: A few of the large grids have started talking about upgrading to 0.9 so now they can upgrade all the way to 0.9.1.<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: some did upgrade to 0.9.1 already<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: or hybrids based on it, of course<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: been on 9x code for almost 3 years<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, you rebel you. ;)<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well osgrid is on Yeti now :)<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well LBSA is<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: and we are here :)<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: well a Yeti that does look a lot like Snail.. but details<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Digiworldz is on a hybrid of 0.9, iirc. Kitely is thinking of updating.<br />
<br>[11:53] Pius Noel: I will upgrade my private test grid tomorrow<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: well we will move on as we can...<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: and will drop suport of older ones<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: including not bother viewer devs about them<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: i may send a email about 0.8x end of life<br />
<br>[11:55] Pius Noel: btw. what are your viewer suggestions?<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: that is, till now i still look to 0.8 and add code hacks to suport it<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: will no longer do that..<br />
<br>[11:56] Pius Noel: so far I've been using Firestorm most of the time<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: eventually remove the ones present<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: and will not bother viewers about 0.8 things<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: guess will do the same about 0.9.0.x soon also<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: the main reasons why we don't have a fs 6.3.x release for opensim<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: future.. lets see...<br />
<br>[11:58] Bill Blight: Sometimes you have to burn a bridge to keep the enemy from following ...<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: openstorm is fs6.3.4 with a few extras, and seems almost ok on 0.91<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: bet dayturn will also<br />
<br>[11:59] dj phil: where is openstorm 6.3.4 ?<br />
<br>[12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: In Bill's super secret bunker.<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL just released a viewer with an updated voice client, so I probably will make a release of that in a couple days if it works OK<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: it works on mac and linux?<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what does?<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the voice client?<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, one long standing problem with viewers is the alpha bug. Any chance that is going to get fixed in the not too distant future?<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the alpha bug?<br />
<br>[12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: If you mean where lphas z-fight, that's not a viewer bug.<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: An alpha on an object sometimes results in an object appearing in the foreground instead of background.<br />
<br>[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn: That will happen when alpha blending is used. To prevent it use masking.<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the only case I see that is with meshes<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: alpha "bug" is a deep level issue..<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and I have no idea how to fix it<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Its been a very long standing bug.<br />
<br>[12:02] Pius Noel: there is a workaround, that doesn't fix everything, but works quite well<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: yeap builders need to avoid blending etc<br />
<br>[12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: It isn't a bug. It's just how OpenGL works.<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Just thought I'd ask. Sometimes just asking prods someone to look in to it and next thing you know it gets fixed. :)<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: usually you don't use alpha blending anywhere when you have mesh on mesh<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: damm irritating one should say...<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apparently LL have hired two rendering developers<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and I have seen some fixes coming out of that already<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so we shall see :-)<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: or in worse case, not see :p<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sometimes you are not meant to see<br />
<br>[12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Let's take bets on how long it takes for them to die from fright.<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There was a Dayturn release lat week that has an update for detecting memory on AMD cards<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: main thing about tech is that it should be invisible<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: last<br />
<br>[12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: At this point, when it comes the the viewers renderer I'm kinda harsh. Vukanize it or go home.<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is a Windows specific update<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to look at the settings. I don't know about an alpha blending or masking setting anywhere.<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in many cases the viewer would detect only the built in Intel graphcis and report that<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: its on objects edit .. textures etc<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I purchased some trees from a well known SL developer on Kitley and they use alpha blending. Very visible under certain lighting conditions<br />
<br>[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, ok. I'll have a look later.<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is in the Texture tab in the Tool floater<br />
<br>[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah. Anyone with a garden should go around changing all their plants to use masking. Won't be as pretty right up close, but man will it stop all that z-buffer clutter.<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: some clothes have same issue<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: and of course never use a texture with alpha unless really needed<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Useful to know as I was once considering making a garden region.<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: have a few that are suposed to be solid, and have alpha, triggering the issue<br />
<br>[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah. If you don't want alpha effects, do not use PNG or anything else that has an alpha channel. Use a 24-bit Targa instead.<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: it will also improve fps a tiny :)<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't used tga files in ages.<br />
<br>[12:12] Pius Noel: me too<br />
<br>[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: The last time was decades ago when I was doing some programming for a graphics library for a Targa brand graphics card.<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: well just keep in mind, some textures around representing solid things do have alpha and so that issue<br />
<br>[12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: Lossless (or slightly compressed) JPEG will work too.<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I use JPEG for all my mesh textures<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: its mesh or any prim<br />
<br>[12:14] Bill Blight: depending on your graphics program , you can strip the alpha channel from PNGs before saving as well ..<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: except for glass things which are supposed to be transparent and has an outside and inside<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that can be fixed with a little trix<br />
<br>[12:15] Marcus Llewellyn: That's true Bill. Sadly, internally all PNGs are treated as though they have an alpha channel.<br />
<br>[12:16] Marcus Llewellyn: If you absolutely don't want alpha effects, it's 24-bit TGA, JPG, or BMP you want.<br />
<br>[12:16] Bill Blight: for sure<br />
<br>[12:17] Bill Blight: I use TGA's if it is anything that has text on it, that needs to be legible in world<br />
<br>[12:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Either BMP or TGA will remain pretty pristine after J2K. PNG too, but again... alpha. :)<br />
<br>[12:19] Marcus Llewellyn: We should use KTX internally instead anyway. >:)<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: tell that to gavin :)<br />
<br>[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: KTX?<br />
<br>[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good luck rewriting the renderer<br />
<br>[12:19] Marcus Llewellyn: It's a Khronos GPU image standard.<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and convert all current content<br />
<br>[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Never heard anything about it.<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: never<br />
<br>[12:21] Bill Blight: That is he biggest thing holding everything back, is Legacy content<br />
<br>[12:21] Bill Blight: (and people not wanting to update it)<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: things like that born and die everyday (formats)<br />
<br>[12:22] Bill Blight: USER: I want he newest and greatest rendering stuff, DEV: Ok but you will have to remake all your mesh and textures. USER: FUCK THAT<br />
<br>[12:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Sure. KTX will prolly stick for a while though. Especially cuz mobile.<br />
<br>[12:22] Pius Noel: ;)<br />
<br>[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly which mobile is that used with?<br />
<br>[12:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Android. iOS. Unity. Unreal.<br />
<br>[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Is KTX replacing Cuda?<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: guess Unity and Unreal is just bc somethings use it :)<br />
<br>[12:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Nooo.... very different things.<br />
<br>[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: never heard it supported by Apple at all<br />
<br>[12:24] Marcus Llewellyn: KTX isn't really meant as an exhange format. It's more intended to be optimized as a final step when packaging your product.<br />
<br>[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: iOS does not use OpenGL any more<br />
<br>[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, ok. Probably explains why I don't know about it.<br />
<br>[12:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Forgot about Metal, yeah<br />
<br>[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so that is about 1.3 billion not using it<br />
<br>[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: We've been going for almost an hour and a half. Anything more for today?<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-10-29Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-292019-10-29T16:54:48Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "The meeting starts one hour early for our european friends as Europe already switched back to winter time whereas the US remains on summer time still."</p>
<hr />
<div>The meeting starts one hour early for our european friends as Europe already switched back to winter time whereas the US remains on summer time still.</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-10-29T16:53:19Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
* No meeting was held on 2019-01-08<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2017-12-19<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-28]]<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-07]]<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26]]<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-29]]<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-10-08Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-082019-10-23T03:19:07Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there messed up mesh here?<br />
<br />[10:59] Bill Blight: NO there isn't<br />
<br />[10:59] Bill Blight: just Ubit being Ubit<br />
<br />[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br />[10:59] Kayaker Magic: Want it gone?<br />
<br />[11:00] Kayaker Magic: It's a prim, not mesh<br />
<br />[11:00] Ubit Umarov: ( yeah we know bill bugs all over )<br />
<br />[11:00] Bill Blight: :P<br />
<br />[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where there is code there are bugs<br />
<br />[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby<br />
<br />[11:01] Kayaker Magic: Hi Selby!<br />
<br />[11:01] Bill Blight: Not bugs, "Support challenged Features"<br />
<br />[11:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everyone<br />
<br />[11:01] Ubit Umarov: hi<br />
<br />[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not every bug reach support<br />
<br />[11:02] Ubit Umarov: seems andrews cat is afk<br />
<br />[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably sleeping on the keyboard<br />
<br />[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or mouse<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: well some grids seem to consider bug fixes a "commercial" advantage<br />
<br />[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: so no reports at all<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: even non commercial ones<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: ufff<br />
<br />[11:04] Ubit Umarov: "my fork is the best" also<br />
<br />[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but of course it is<br />
<br />[11:04] Ubit Umarov: yeah<br />
<br />[11:05] Ubit Umarov: until they start knocking at oyu door asking for their own special feature<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some just commit their special feature to master<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: undocumented of course<br />
<br />[11:08] Ubit Umarov: well that was actually a extension to one already thee undocumented :p<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ic<br />
<br />[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Hardly anyone here. Have clocks changed somewhere in the world?<br />
<br />[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: too much drama all over<br />
<br />[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no time for virtual reality. Reality already is too much<br />
<br />[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Well, I have a question for Ubit:<br />
<br />[11:12] Kayaker Magic: I made the mistake of reading the Secondlife Wiki entry for llSetkeyFramedMotion, and it has a bunch of restrictions I do not recall:<br />
<br />[11:13] Kayaker Magic: For example, the times in the strided list must be multiples of 1/11<br />
<br />[11:13] Kayaker Magic: I have not been obeying that restriction, and things work as I expect here.<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: those are ll specific<br />
<br />[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Is our llSetKeyframedMotion less restrictive then the LL one?<br />
<br />[11:13] Ubit Umarov: ours is 20ms or so<br />
<br />[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Good to hear<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: diferent engine.. dif rules<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: "This function requires the linkset to use the Prim Equivalency system"<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: not our rule either :p<br />
<br />[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'm aware of that<br />
<br />[11:15] Ubit Umarov: Testing shows a minimum delta time is about 6/45 (.13333) seconds.<br />
<br />[11:16] Ubit Umarov: this kinda tells sl severs only look to it every 6th frame<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well lf is actively refusing me<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: no idea why<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: whatever the lm did its work<br />
<br />[11:29] Ubit Umarov: Bill get some pillows for this nice people<br />
<br />[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Halftime, no Andrew<br />
<br />[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks is online.<br />
<br />[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Speak of the Devil!<br />
<br />[11:34] Telehub: Welcome back to, Dev Outreach, Andrew Hellershanks.<br />
<br />**During meethings, all chat is logged.**<br />
<br />[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, what? Where? ;)<br />
<br />[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been half-dozing a bit this afternoon. Sorry I'm late.<br />
<br />[11:35] Kayaker Magic: Hardly anybody else is here today.<br />
<br />[11:35] Kayaker Magic: Selby and I are the only two non-devs here!<br />
<br />[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I was unable to be here for last weeks meeting because the people doing construction in the area cut the cable that provides my Internet connection.<br />
<br />[11:35] Kayaker Magic: I hate it when that happens!<br />
<br />[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: One of the people I know that lives one street over still hasn't had their cable repaired from when it was cut about a week ago.<br />
<br />[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: The cable was cut to at least 14 houses on my street alone.<br />
<br />[11:38] Kayaker Magic: Was this above ground or below?<br />
<br />[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: The cable runs from a distribution box beside the roadway then runs under the sidewalk to the side of the house. The construction workers were ripping up the side walk to relevel it and put down new concrete. The cable for TV and Internet wasn't deep enough in many places and that is why it got cut.<br />
<br />[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: We reported the outage right after it got cut. It still took 7 phone calls, and a tech from another city about a half hour away to come and fix it. The neighbour next door had their cable fixed the next morning before hours was fixed. There was at least four different cable repair trucks working in the area each doing a house or two. Most ineffecient way of doing things.<br />
<br />[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm just glad we stick to old fashioned landlines for phone service.<br />
<br />[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: What were you discussing before I arrived? Anything OS related?<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: yes the need for pillows here<br />
<br />[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I had one question about how much better llSetKeyframedMotion is on OpenSim than on Second life.<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: so ppl can sleep confy<br />
<br />[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Ubit.<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br />[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Kayaker.<br />
<br />[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Several of the regulars are not here, makes me wonder if clocks changed somewhere in the world.<br />
<br />[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Already asked my question and got answers, you missed it.<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, that's a good point. It is almost that time of the year again. Won't be much longer now before the clocks where I am get changed by an hour.<br />
<br />[11:46] Kayaker Magic: California is working on getting rid of this barbaric process, sticking with PDT all year round.<br />
<br />[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: If someone can pass me an NC with the log of the meeting before I arrived it will be helpful so I can post more of the information from todays meeting.<br />
<br />[11:46] Ubit Umarov: your cat wil be confused again about his meals time<br />
<br />[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, not so much. She is often finishing the wet food we gave her for breakfast around lunch time. :)<br />
<br />[11:47] Ubit Umarov: EU considered that, but kept it a local gov decision<br />
<br />[11:47] Ubit Umarov: portugal decided to keep changing<br />
<br />[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: The kibble she has available all the time.<br />
<br />[11:47] Ubit Umarov: nonsense to allow govs to decide<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: think EU decided to delay any decision<br />
<br />[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a federal election campaign under way where I am. It should get put on the agenda and people could vote for it. :)<br />
<br />[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks for the notes, Kayaker.<br />
<br />[11:49] Grid: Kayaker Magic gave you EarlyMeeting.<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: well a entire block like EU or USA should have the same rules<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: or it becames a mess<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: or becomes<br />
<br />[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Canada often just follows along with things in the US so until the US changes Canada probably won't either.<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: and no reason why EU don't have same days to change<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: eu and usa<br />
<br />[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Is anyone here using Diva WiFi with git master?<br />
<br />[11:51] Kayaker Magic: Oregon and Washington say they will follow Californias lead, so if we stop changing a big block of western states will all be in the same time zone!<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well time zones are a bit dif<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: we do need to life in sync with sun<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: nothing on our bad was made for artificial light<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: out body not bad :)<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: we had a rebelion when our gov decide to be on Berlin time<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: or CET<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: well back to opensim ?<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: no major changes code side<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: except a bug fix on libomv<br />
<br />[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Just lots of little ones? :)<br />
<br />[11:54] Kayaker Magic: I see Melanie is active in the log lately.<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: and still that console issue<br />
<br />[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: It is not often that a fix is required to libOMV.<br />
<br />[11:55] Ubit Umarov: it is our libomv :p<br />
<br />[11:55] Ubit Umarov: and it does need fixes and updates<br />
<br />[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Didn't say it wasn't "our" libomv. I see the changes to it weren't extensive this time. Just one file changed.<br />
<br />[12:00] Kayaker Magic: "Time is an illusion, Lunch Time doubly so". I haven't had breakfast yet and it is lunch time here. I'm out of here now.<br />
<br />[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc, Kayaker.<br />
<br />[12:00] Ubit Umarov: have fun<br />
<br />[12:00] Kayaker Magic: Poof!<br />
<br />[12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah quiet meeting this one<br />
<br />[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: This hour went by fast. ;)<br />
<br />[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I saw from messages in the mailing list that a patch was provided for one of the ll functions. If that wasn't already pushed to git it should happen soon(?). That made me realize that the wiki page listing the state of implmentation of the ll functions my need to be reviewed to see if it is up-to-date with the current code.<br />
<br />[12:04] Ubit Umarov: yeah i didnt liked that patch bc reasons i don't remember now :p<br />
<br />[12:04] Ubit Umarov: have to review that<br />
<br />[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br />[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: We are now past the hour mark. If there isn't anything more for today we might as well call this one done and dusted.<br />
<br />[12:06] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: ok -- by all<br />
<br />[12:06] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
<br />[12:06] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye<br />
<br />[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bye Selby.<br />
<br />[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.<br />
<br />[12:06] Ubit Umarov: cya selby and ty<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-10-15Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-152019-10-23T03:18:47Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew<br />
<br />[11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi Andrew<br />
<br />[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.<br />
<br />[11:03] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Hi Andrew<br />
<br />[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Start of Meeting!<br />
<br />[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, yup. :)<br />
<br />[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just soldering the last wire on an adapter I'm building. Just got it done in time. :)<br />
<br />[11:05] Kayaker Magic: First question: Where does the viewer script editor get the help line for OSSL functions?<br />
<br />[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: depends<br />
<br />[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn gets it from an xml in app_settings<br />
<br />[11:05] Bill Blight: yeah, a syntax file, but depends on the viewer<br />
<br />[11:05] Bill Blight: FS actually actively updates from the web<br />
<br />[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Are there some OS functions that aren't being highlighted correctly?<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: keywords_lsl_default.xml<br />
<br />[11:06] Ubit Umarov: correct way should be, from file, then overriden by region provided information<br />
<br />[11:06] Bill Blight: There are some , and some that are not even there, and some that are there that don't exist<br />
<br />[11:06] Bill Blight: I agree with Ubit,<br />
<br />[11:06] Kayaker Magic: So when I add a new OSSL function, where do I go to add a help line for it?<br />
<br />[11:07] Ubit Umarov: fs kinda does that, but does let override the ones on file<br />
<br />[11:07] Bill Blight: but FS will not include things from the server that it already has ... (I'm going to take a hammer to that at some point)<br />
<br />[11:07] Ubit Umarov: so its more like merge<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I try to add them as soon as they are up on master<br />
<br />[11:07] Ubit Umarov: and puts os things in 2 dif places on list<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so generally for the next viewer build<br />
<br />[11:08] Bill Blight: FS has two files it pulls, one for LSL and one for OSSL, pain<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but you can be adventurous and edit keywords_lsl_default.xml<br />
<br />[11:08] Ubit Umarov: gavin why.. regions do send the data<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I have told you multiple times before the viewer msut have a fallback<br />
<br />[11:08] Ubit Umarov: well 0.91 regions<br />
<br />[11:08] Bill Blight: well Master regions send it<br />
<br />[11:08] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br />[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the fallback might just as well be updated, yeah?<br />
<br />[11:09] Ubit Umarov: why?<br />
<br />[11:09] Ubit Umarov: old regions don't have all ossl<br />
<br />[11:09] Ubit Umarov: you are adding things they don't have<br />
<br />[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, but the user might have a script that orignates in a region with a never version<br />
<br />[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is kinda cool to see everything highligted always, right?<br />
<br />[11:10] Ubit Umarov: don't see why<br />
<br />[11:10] Ubit Umarov: it will smoke anyway on save :p<br />
<br />[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: suit yourself ;-)<br />
<br />[11:11] Ubit Umarov: i do.. i use fs<br />
<br />[11:11] Ubit Umarov: oops this was bad, sorry :)<br />
<br />[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as if I did not know, hehe<br />
<br />[11:11] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you use whatever pleases you<br />
<br />[11:13] Kayaker Magic: I don't feel particularly enlightened... So it is a viewer configuration and we have to talk the viewer devs into adding new OSSL functions?<br />
<br />[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it depends on the viewer<br />
<br />[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but yes<br />
<br />[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br />[11:14] Ubit Umarov: no just have them do it right :p<br />
<br />[11:14] Kayaker Magic: Well if the viewers did it right, what file do I modify? keywords_lsl_default.xml?<br />
<br />[11:15] Ubit Umarov: none<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for my viewer, yes<br />
<br />[11:15] Bill Blight: you would not need to edit them, as regions on master code, send it to the viewers<br />
<br />[11:16] Kayaker Magic: But if I add a new OSSL function there is no help line for the regions to send, how do I create that line for master to send?<br />
<br />[11:16] Ubit Umarov: you don't<br />
<br />[11:16] Ubit Umarov: remember me to do it :p<br />
<br />[11:16] Kayaker Magic: OK, well if that is the procedure, OK.<br />
<br />[11:16] Ubit Umarov: i made a littel program to generate it<br />
<br />[11:17] Ubit Umarov: from our sources<br />
<br />[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a file in bin on master called ScriptSyntax.xml that has all the OSSL entries<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: the region side file is a sintaxe something .xml<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: ahh that<br />
<br />[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Yes, that xml file has the syntax, but not the text that appears when you wave a cursor over the function name.<br />
<br />[11:18] Ubit Umarov: no bc i didn't add it to sources :p<br />
<br />[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my keywords_lsl_default.xml has all lsl, ossl + constants<br />
<br />[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I add the hover text manually to keywords_lsl_default.xml<br />
<br />[11:19] Ubit Umarov: my prog can extract some coments from source files<br />
<br />[11:19] Ubit Umarov: but that is not suposed to be a LSL/OSSL manual<br />
<br />[11:19] Kayaker Magic: there are comments on some of the OSSL functions???!!!<br />
<br />[11:19] Ubit Umarov: just a parameters reminder<br />
<br />[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the problems with the current format is that you cannot specify overloaded functions and get it to show in the hover text<br />
<br />[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the hover is not complete for everyting<br />
<br />[11:21] Ubit Umarov: and shows energy that we don't have<br />
<br />[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not on dayturn<br />
<br />[11:21] Object: Script running<br />
<br />[11:22] Object: Script running<br />
<br />[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Dayturn, FTW? :)<br />
<br />[11:22] Kayaker Magic: OK, a different question" Where are the sources for the ini file reading code.<br />
<br />[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have filtered it out<br />
<br />[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, IIRC, it uses Nini.<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: if you see here with fs osSlerp is listed, etc<br />
<br />[11:23] Ubit Umarov: the ones with no coments are the oficial ones :p<br />
<br />[11:24] Ubit Umarov: the ones that have coments are from the FS files<br />
<br />[11:24] Ubit Umarov: that the damm thing does not override as we said<br />
<br />[11:25] Ubit Umarov: viewer files are a mistake now, that regions do provide the info<br />
<br />[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are worse mistakes that can be made<br />
<br />[11:26] Kayaker Magic: Next question: I have a region running YEngine, a script that has been working for months suddenly gave me an error "OutOfHeapException: oldtotal=262135, newtotal=262170, limit=262144". Should I put a copy of the console log for this error in a mantis, or do you want to see that now Ubit?<br />
<br />[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: If the list of available functions is sent to viewers on entering a region that is part of the long(ish) list of stuff that has to be passed to a viewer on region crossings.<br />
<br />[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is Andrew<br />
<br />[11:26] Ubit Umarov: oops i forgot that again<br />
<br />[11:26] Ubit Umarov: it is already on mantis<br />
<br />[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: another reason why I have a local file<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: NO<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: bahh<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: there is a version control<br />
<br />[11:27] Ubit Umarov: gezzz<br />
<br />[11:27] Bill Blight: I just gave my heap more ram, my servers have ram to spare ...<br />
<br />[11:28] Bill Blight: :P<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: it is not a real memory usage<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: its a bug on the accounting of it<br />
<br />[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well if i remember :)<br />
<br />[11:28] Bill Blight: True enough, but more ram keeps it from happening, have not seen it for a long time ..<br />
<br />[11:29] Kayaker Magic: But this script was fine for ages, was there a recent change to OpenSim that caused this problem? I do upgrade that server to the latest Snail Master often.<br />
<br />[11:29] Ubit Umarov: no changes on that for sometime now<br />
<br />[11:30] Kayaker Magic: So the bug is still there and may be fixed some day?<br />
<br />[11:30] Ubit Umarov: but to make clear.. the syntaxe is only downloaded if it has diferent version than the one viewer already has<br />
<br />[11:31] Kayaker Magic: (the bug that threw the OutOfHeapException)<br />
<br />[11:31] Ubit Umarov: no one should try crossings btw regions on diferent versions anyway<br />
<br />[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so if you tp around OSG it might be updated often<br />
<br />[11:31] Ubit Umarov: it is suposed 2<br />
<br />[11:32] Ubit Umarov: to not fool users<br />
<br />[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, That is a problem in osgrid as you can't tell what region is running what version of code until you enter the region.<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no fooling if the viewer knows about all of the script syntax at all times<br />
<br />[11:33] Ubit Umarov: well wasted too much time on a obvius thing<br />
<br />[11:33] Ubit Umarov: it is wrong to list osSlerp on a region that does not have it<br />
<br />[11:34] Ubit Umarov: next issue?<br />
<br />[11:34] Kayaker Magic: When a script in a region gets an error, why does it send the debug message to every avatar? Can it not tell who owns the offending script?<br />
<br />[11:35] Ubit Umarov: to have all users telling user STOP THAT SCRIPT<br />
<br />[11:35] Kayaker Magic: LOL<br />
<br />[11:35] Bill Blight: the viewer picks up the entire debug channel, just like it picks up region notices<br />
<br />[11:36] Ubit Umarov: we could change that<br />
<br />[11:36] Ubit Umarov: but that effect is usefull :P<br />
<br />[11:37] Kayaker Magic: I'm working on an osPermissionToCall(string function) that will silently tell your script if you can call an OSSL function by name.<br />
<br />[11:37] Ubit Umarov: well will need to allow proper use of try/cache on that<br />
<br />[11:38] Ubit Umarov: yeah, seem the emails<br />
<br />[11:38] Ubit Umarov: that's just add another damm dictionay<br />
<br />[11:39] Kayaker Magic: The internal CheckThreatLevelTest function caches the permission bits already, I'll just call that.<br />
<br />[11:39] Ubit Umarov: and fill it with defaults by hand<br />
<br />[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: As have I. I also saw the one where someone suggested adding an option to set the channel for debug messages.<br />
<br />[11:39] Ubit Umarov: then update for the total overload ini parser<br />
<br />[11:40] Kayaker Magic: If threat level is added to the ini for each function, is it necessary to cache that? It is already in memory in the ini structures.<br />
<br />[11:40] Bill Blight: I am still unsure how useful that will be Kayaker ..<br />
<br />[11:40] Ubit Umarov: no it has no business on ini file<br />
<br />[11:41] Kayaker Magic: Why not?<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: it is a fall back for funtions not on the file<br />
<br />[11:41] Bill Blight: your script will bomb if that function is in it and not allowed regardless if you call the other function first.<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: actually not that sure why we have it<br />
<br />[11:42] Kayaker Magic: Well one of my suggestions is to move the threat levels from being hard-coded in each function to a table that can be checked by a test-before-calling function.<br />
<br />[11:42] Bill Blight: If you are the region owner, all you have to do is look at your osslEnable.ini to know what you have enabled , if you are not the region owner, you really have no business beating up the sim to find what you can get away with .. just my .02<br />
<br />[11:43] Ubit Umarov: no question is having it or remove it<br />
<br />[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed Bill<br />
<br />[11:43] Bill Blight: I like the threat levels<br />
<br />[11:44] Bill Blight: gives as it gives you levels of control as a grid owner, not just individual on and off<br />
<br />[11:44] Kayaker Magic: The threat levels are used less often, if a function appears in osslEnable.ini, the threat level is never checked.<br />
<br />[11:44] Bill Blight: umm that is wrong<br />
<br />[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I know of a couple of grid owners who ignore threat levels for some functions because they like the convenience of being able to use the functions.<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br />[11:44] Bill Blight: it is checked,<br />
<br />[11:44] Bill Blight: and if you have no allow it does not function<br />
<br />[11:45] Kayaker Magic: I tested it recently: Set threat level to very low, called osGetGridName, it worked. Removed osGetGridName from ini, then it failed to work.<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: they are not used on shiped configuration<br />
<br />[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: There are quite a few os functions that are not in osslEnable.ini as the functions are always allowed.<br />
<br />[11:45] Ubit Umarov: ( unless we forgot some function :p )<br />
<br />[11:46] Kayaker Magic: (threat level for osGetGridName is moderate)<br />
<br />[11:46] Ubit Umarov: i may remove all those from osslenable.ini<br />
<br />[11:46] Ubit Umarov: jut go see the wiki<br />
<br />[11:46] Bill Blight: default for it in the ini is Allow_osGetGridName = true<br />
<br />[11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( i mean the ones with no checks )<br />
<br />[11:47] Bill Blight: so of course if you remove it , it will not work<br />
<br />[11:47] Bill Blight: at a lower threat level<br />
<br />[11:47] Kayaker Magic: One could change the CheckThreatLevelTest function to ALSO check threat level when Allow_* = true. Currently it does not.<br />
<br />[11:47] Bill Blight: a setting of TRUE allows it to work a any threatlevel<br />
<br />[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Correct<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: no thats not the meaning og true<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: true is always enable as bill said<br />
<br />[11:48] Ubit Umarov: false is disabled<br />
<br />[11:48] Kayaker Magic: And neither means "check threat level"<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: commented line means that<br />
<br />[11:49] Kayaker Magic: Right<br />
<br />[11:49] Kayaker Magic: by neither, I meant no line in the ini for that function.<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: but we try to have lines for all<br />
<br />[11:50] Bill Blight: but there is also Creators_ as well as Allow_ so it is used for more than just that<br />
<br />[11:50] Kayaker Magic: Well, my problem is, I want to write a function to tell me "the threat level is too low for you to ask the grid name" so I can punt and substitute "OpenSim".<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: but Allow is master key<br />
<br />[11:50] Ubit Umarov: creator: depends on Allow<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: ( don't ask.. )<br />
<br />[11:51] Ubit Umarov: yeah we understud your thing<br />
<br />[11:51] Bill Blight: If you own the region , you can just look at your INI<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: but that will not help you than much<br />
<br />[11:52] Ubit Umarov: you can't supend the execution of a script<br />
<br />[11:53] Kayaker Magic: I write scripts that people take all over the metaverse. The script works most places, then spams everyone with ANGRY RED ERRORS when they take my script to LBSA plaza because that region has the Allow_osGetRegionName line commented out.<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: you would need to put it on all events that use ossl<br />
<br />[11:53] Bill Blight: best you could hope for is to send it to a state that does not do anything<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: yeap the angry is intencional<br />
<br />[11:53] Kayaker Magic: No, just one call per region to get grid name<br />
<br />[11:53] Ubit Umarov: its psico war :p<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: on the users or region owner :p<br />
<br />[11:54] Ubit Umarov: to fix things :)<br />
<br />[11:54] Bill Blight: but you would have to call it, on TP's and crossings, or when that function would do nothing, and the script would still errors<br />
<br />[11:54] Kayaker Magic: CHANGED_REGION<br />
<br />[11:55] Bill Blight: and hope it hits that before the other function<br />
<br />[11:55] Bill Blight: depending on where the script was at , at the moment of the change<br />
<br />[11:55] Kayaker Magic: if (you can call) then call function. No error.<br />
<br />[11:55] Ubit Umarov: whats the poinf of checking on CHANGED if you have the function on touch:start?<br />
<br />[11:56] Kayaker Magic: In the example case of getting the grid name, I could check on changed, and read the grid name in a global.<br />
<br />[11:56] Bill Blight: (for things like radars, speed huds, things that run all the time I assume)<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: no idea why gridname has enable :)<br />
<br />[11:57] Ubit Umarov: gridname is a secret?<br />
<br />[11:57] Bill Blight: lol<br />
<br />[11:57] Bill Blight: yeah<br />
<br />[11:57] Kayaker Magic: go figure.<br />
<br />[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for RLV users it might be<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: It is useful to know the region name for vendor sxrips.<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: sxrips -> scripts<br />
<br />[11:58] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, why are you adamant that the threat level for each function should not be changable in the ini files?<br />
<br />[11:58] Bill Blight: and osGetGridHomeURI and osGetGridLoginURI<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: bc it is a waste<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: it is active for things NOT on file<br />
<br />[11:59] Bill Blight: yeah it is, the way I look at it, in that case, is , if the grid owner does not know how to set perms correctly for the needed functions in the osslEnable.ini, I'm not trusting them with my money either ..<br />
<br />[12:00] Ubit Umarov: and ( mistakes aside) we ship it with entries for everything<br />
<br />[12:00] Bill Blight: (I was referring to Andrew's comment)<br />
<br />[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: My cat is wanting play time.<br />
<br />[12:01] Ubit Umarov: well oosl threat and enable is a issue<br />
<br />[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have a needy cat :-)<br />
<br />[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br />[12:02] Ubit Umarov: as i said on email it is confusing, it is heavy..<br />
<br />[12:02] Kayaker Magic: So Ubit, would you object to a table in the OSSL source file that lists which functions are at what threat level, using that in the Check function, and moving away from the hard-coded threat levels?<br />
<br />[12:02] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br />[12:03] Bill Blight: oh that is gonna be a mess<br />
<br />[12:03] Ubit Umarov: unless as side effect of a more deep change<br />
<br />[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, how would you ensure the information in the table matches the code and osslEnable.ini file?<br />
<br />[12:03] Bill Blight: people can't set them now, what kind of mess is it gonna make when they have to decide for themselves ...<br />
<br />[12:04] Kayaker Magic: The code would still read the osEnable.ini, which does not have thread level data.<br />
<br />[12:04] Kayaker Magic: If a function is not in the ini, it would just get threat level from a table instead of a hard-coded value imbedded in each function.<br />
<br />[12:04] Kayaker Magic: That would caus NO DIFFERNCE in the behavior<br />
<br />[12:05] Ubit Umarov: yeah but thats a BUG atractor<br />
<br />[12:05] Kayaker Magic: Just a better organization internally<br />
<br />[12:05] Kayaker Magic: How does tht attract bugs?<br />
<br />[12:05] Ubit Umarov: having it 100Km away on the file is a bug attractor<br />
<br />[12:06] Kayaker Magic: Ar you talking aobut INI? I'm asking about table inside the code.<br />
<br />[12:06] Ubit Umarov: .. 100km away on source file<br />
<br />[12:06] Bill Blight: HOw is it better organized when it allows every person to decide differently what they want at each threat level and given the opportunity to screw it up<br />
<br />[12:06] Bill Blight: so osGetGridName could be low on one grid and severe on another<br />
<br />[12:07] Bill Blight: that sounds very confusing<br />
<br />[12:07] Kayaker Magic: There is currently no way for any function to know what the threat level is for another function. A table would allow that.<br />
<br />[12:07] Ubit Umarov: they are no suposed to know<br />
<br />[12:08] Ubit Umarov: and only yr function may meed it<br />
<br />[12:08] Kayaker Magic: osGetGridName is already low on most places and high in LSBA plaza. I'm trying to find a solution to that.<br />
<br />[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Many users and some grid owners don't understand why some functions have a given threat level. Letting them mess with changing the threat level for a function could lead to problems.<br />
<br />[12:08] Bill Blight: but if that table is in the ini and changeable by the user, that would give a HUGE place for misconfigurations and inconsistency<br />
<br />[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: If a grid or reigon owners wants a function they can always just add an Allow_ line to osslEnable.ini.<br />
<br />[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if they did you could potentially use it to eek out all allowed functions and use it maliciously<br />
<br />[12:08] Ubit Umarov: and there is other issue<br />
<br />[12:09] Ubit Umarov: unsupported functions or typos<br />
<br />[12:09] Kayaker Magic: Grid owners CAN change the threat level by adding an Allow_ line to the ini, which bypasses threat level. That problem already exists<br />
<br />[12:09] Bill Blight: Personal opinion, this would be a self fulfilling prophecy for issues ..<br />
<br />[12:09] Ubit Umarov: checkAllow("osSsetTerrain...") will compile<br />
<br />[12:10] Ubit Umarov: and do a mess :p<br />
<br />[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, that isn't changing the threat level. It just allows deciding if the function is to be allowed regardless of the setting of the overall allowed threat level.<br />
<br />[12:10] Kayaker Magic: osGetGridName is just an example. Another example could be a script that tests first and then calls osStartAnimation or llStartAnimation.<br />
<br />[12:10] Kayaker Magic: osAvatarPlanAnimation<br />
<br />[12:11] Ubit Umarov: ohh the blow thing?<br />
<br />[12:11] Kayaker Magic: smelting copper, yes.<br />
<br />[12:11] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[12:12] Bill Blight: seems to me gives one more place to screw it up , they could mess up the table, and the osslEnable.ini, now they have to check two places to see why their function does not work<br />
<br />[12:12] Kayaker Magic: So one of my scripts lands in a grid with stupid OSSL threat level settings, I want to give an inteligent error message: "Ask your grid administrator to add osGetGridNAme to the ini files"<br />
<br />[12:13] Kayaker Magic: Instead of spamming all the avatars with unintelligible red text<br />
<br />[12:13] Bill Blight: debug already tells you the function and that it was denied, in that red text<br />
<br />[12:13] Ubit Umarov: the type of error message is not fixed that way<br />
<br />[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought the only functions not listed in the enable file are ones that are always allowed.<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: those are currently listed, i may remove them..<br />
<br />[12:14] Kayaker Magic: Unless you land in LBSA plaza where they apparently removed the osslEnable.ini file.<br />
<br />[12:14] Ubit Umarov: (well the recent ones aren't )<br />
<br />[12:15] Ubit Umarov: and to have those took a little fight :p<br />
<br />[12:15] Bill Blight: seems to me simpler solution is to send ossl Denied messages to the owner instead of debug<br />
<br />[12:15] Ubit Umarov: all OSSL functions had to have checks.. uff<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: yeah if the error message is the issue.. that can be changed<br />
<br />[12:16] Kayaker Magic: Is that an easy change Bill?<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: thing is that there are worse issues<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: you ask bill?<br />
<br />[12:16] Bill Blight: easier than adding a whole new permission system<br />
<br />[12:16] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[12:16] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br />[12:17] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but I can't fix the hard issues and I can one little function that returns a string.<br />
<br />[12:17] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: interesting discussion I need to head off to RL I need to eat.<br />
<br />[12:17] Ubit Umarov: but the send to all had reasons<br />
<br />[12:18] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: See you all next week ttfn<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: like the one i said :)<br />
<br />[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Enjoy your meal, Leighton.<br />
<br />[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cheers<br />
<br />[12:18] Kayaker Magic: Same here, it is lunch time and I have not had breakfast yet.<br />
<br />[12:18] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: :waves:<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: alert all for a problem so it is fices<br />
<br />[12:18] Ubit Umarov: fixed<br />
<br />[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I should dahs too. I need to see the next video that kills CNN<br />
<br />[12:18] Bill Blight: Sounds to me , where this should have been "fix the error message" it became, "Rewrite the whole thing, give them another place to screw it up and hope they don't see that error anymore"<br />
<br />[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: It is almost 20 past the hour. About time to wrap up the meeting for today. I don't think we will come up with a complete solution to the problem today.<br />
<br />[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: see you guys next week<br />
<br />[12:20] Kayaker Magic: bye all<br />
<br />[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, you may have raised a good point. What is the actual problem that needs solving? :)<br />
<br />[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, let's call this meeting to a close for today. Thank you all for coming. See you next week.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-10-22Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-222019-10-23T03:18:17Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:02] Kayaker Magic: I hope Gavin shows up. <br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Viewer related questions today, Kayaker? <br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Actually, I w..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: I hope Gavin shows up.<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Viewer related questions today, Kayaker?<br />
<br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Actually, I wanted to ask him why some code, like XEngine, compiles on x86 processors and on ARM processors, but other code, like YEngine, works onx86 but not ARM.<br />
<br>[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It won't compile or doesn't work?<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit Umarov: does not work on arm?<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit Umarov: who told you that?<br />
<br>[11:05] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: The usual reason why something may not work is usually Library support, but I was not aware Yengine had that problem,<br />
<br>[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Compiles, then doesn't work. I suppose it is a mono question, but Gavin did get XEngine to work on ARM<br />
<br>[11:05] Kayaker Magic: I tried switching to YEngine on a working Pi 4 system, and it failed to come up.... I forget what it said in the log.<br />
<br>[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I'll try angain before next week and take notes.<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit Umarov: strange<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit Umarov: well let me know<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit Umarov: i have no arms<br />
<br>[11:06] Kayaker Magic: will do!<br />
<br>[11:06] Kayaker Magic: lol<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit Umarov: well arm cpus :p<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have several arm cpus but never tried running OS on any of them.<br />
<br>[11:07] Kayaker Magic: I had an epiphany about threat level and the check-before-calling OSSL function:<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov hides<br />
<br>[11:08] Kayaker Magic: My function cannot know the threat level of another function, but I can arrange to just return FALSE for any function that is determined only by threat level.<br />
<br>[11:09] Kayaker Magic: So I wrote a short and sweet OSSL function that just returns the results of the internal check allow permissions function.<br />
<br>[11:09] Kayaker Magic: I'm still testing, but hope to submit it for inclusion in master this week.<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sounds like a plan, Kayaker.<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I always thought there should be a relatively simple solution to the issue(s) that were previously discussed.<br />
<br>[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Because it cannot see threat levels, it will sometime return false negatives, but only in places like LBSA plaza where they have disabled the ossl Allow permissions.<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Any one have some questions or comments related to OS while we are waiting to see if Gavin will be here today?<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org hears crickets<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, was I correct about those overloaded OSSL functions that didn't do threat level checking?<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: you spoke about several<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: and for me OSSL is just opensim set of LSL extensions<br />
<br>[11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Many of the math functions and such don't have threat levels, why would they need them<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: to totally disable it is nonsense<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: of the SL pure CLONE days<br />
<br>[11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Opensimulator without Opensimulator functions is Halcyon<br />
<br>[11:26] Kayaker Magic: For the record: Some of the OSSL function have several different overloaded versions. I noticed that a few of those did not do the Allow permissions or threat level check on all the overloaded version.<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: even considering some still seem to live on that<br />
<br>[11:27] Kayaker Magic: This means that those functions can be called even if disabled by the region owner in the osslEnable.ini file.<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: osSlerp is a math helper<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: etc<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm wondering why osGetSunParam has restrictions on its use. I can understand the restrictions for setting the sun info.<br />
<br>[11:27] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Why do things like math functions need restrictions?<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: those sun things are just half broken<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: our enviromente control is a mess<br />
<br>[11:28] Kayaker Magic: I submitted mantis 8605 about it, but marked it private since it is a security issue.<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well like a lot other things<br />
<br>[11:29] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: how is osApproxEquals a security issue?<br />
<br>[11:30] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: or osRound<br />
<br>osVecMagSquare<br />
<br>osVecDistSquare<br />
<br>osAngleBetween<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well as i said, there a was a school to totaly disable OSSL; LS etc<br />
<br>[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Ah, that is a different mantis 8608. If you disable all OSSL functions, those innocuous ones will still work. Just suggesting consistency: dissable means disable..<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: im out that school<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: and i'm sure not doing that by adding a check on every call<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: that is the wrong way of doing it<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: the silly way..<br />
<br>[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Or re-write the documentation to say "disable all OSSL functions means only disable the dangerous ones"<br />
<br>[11:32] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I"d never be in that school either<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: a full API disable should be done on a different way<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: that i will not do, because for me OSSL == opensim<br />
<br>[11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: **<br />
<br>[11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: That<br />
<br>[11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeah<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: you may see a few fights inside core about that.. details<br />
<br>[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, hard for me to imagine anyone wanting to disable them, but if they do, it would be nice if it worked.<br />
<br>[11:34] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: if they do hey can use Halcyon .. :P<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: some old ideas are stuck deeply<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: ( i also have my own set :p )<br />
<br>[11:34] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Like wanting to drive your car with No Wheels ... go ride a train ... LOL<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: well ive no idea about EEP<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: no point changing current enviroment settings without seening it<br />
<br>[11:41] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I don't think LL has much of an idea about it , as much trouble as they are having with it .<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: they did change all servers<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: guess having issues on viewers ???<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: only did read about some black starts<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: gezzz we do need change this sits to beds<br />
<br>[11:45] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: since ppl always fall a sleep on this meetings<br />
<br>[11:46] Kayaker Magic: Last week was more acrimonious<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov flüstert: well ive no news about FS<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: all fs devs are afk for me again :)<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: no idea how openstorm is now broken<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: but it is also a viewer for 0.9.1.0 only<br />
<br>[11:49] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: how is it broken?<br />
<br>[11:49] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I"m using it now<br />
<br>[11:49] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I don't fall asleep, but I do timeshare.<br />
<br>[11:49] Kayaker Magic: Well, allowing Bill to play with it would break anything!<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: i'm almost falling asleep but that is because I've been fighting a cold for the last couple of days. So far I'm holding it at bay.<br />
<br>[11:50] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am using FS64 5.1.7x.. works fine<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: 6.0.2 also works<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: even 6.3.x works<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: whatever mine works fine, no comment on your busted computers<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: :P<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: but idea of 6.3 is BoM suport.. and its potential issues on older regions<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: Openstorm is based on the 6.3.3 code now<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: really not in the mood to let viewers to decide that opensim 0.8 is now dead<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: even older 0.9<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... The changes to the osslEnable.ini file means some changes will be needed to the OS wiki pages.<br />
<br>[11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am using an updated FS in SL, have not noticed any improvement over OS<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: major is BoM<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: but will take some time to "creators" to use it<br />
<br>[11:54] Bill Blight: BOM and Animesh since 6.02+<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: yes animesh<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Good. I'm on 6.0.2<br />
<br>[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Andrew: I submitted a mantis about which functions were different in the code vs the osslEnable vs the wiki.<br />
<br>[11:54] Bill Blight: new estate panels<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: selby there are two things at you back that do move<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: those 2 guards..<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: that bill tells are not guards<br />
<br>[11:55] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well 3 things now<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Bouncers? :)<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: so you need fs 6.0.2 to see that<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well here.. useless at kitely<br />
<br>[11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I noticed the changed estate panel -- but saw no improvement<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: yeah here also<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: just did add some info on the bans<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: when they were banned, and who banned them<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well here with a 6.3 test viewer or openstorm :)<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see the additional information in the estate panel under 6.0.2<br />
<br>[11:59] Bill Blight: not added to 6.02<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: fs 6.0 still does not have that new UI<br />
<br>[11:59] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: My point is that I only care about changes if they affect what I do. These did not -- I maybe deal with banning people once a year or so.<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well guess not many changes will hit kitely while it stays on 0.8x<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: 6.0.2 is still the latest version of FS available for Linux.<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: in fact fear you will not be able to update viewers also<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: if i "lose" the fight with FS and others<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: to mk them keep suporting a extended range of opensim (and forks) versions<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: but we will also end up having trouble keeping hacks to suport 0.8 and older versions<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: i actually have pressure to kill it :p<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: ie no HG etc..<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: It is just past the top of the hour. No sign of Gavin so Kayaker's questions will have to wait for another week.<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: what questions where those?<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: bill is now a viewer dev also<br />
<br>[12:04] Kayaker Magic: About why YEngine doesn't run on ARM and XEngine does.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov laughts like crazy<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, About YEngine on an ARM based processor.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: ohh thats not viewer question<br />
<br>[12:04] Kayaker Magic: Gavin implied he did something to get XEngine to work, I'd like to switch to YEngine<br />
<br>[12:04] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'll test it better and report back next week.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: xengined did work fine<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: Y uses dynamic functions<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: mb the issue is on that<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: but arm are linux/mono<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: should work fine<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: so.. ive no idea<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Any known issues with the latest mono?<br />
<br>[12:06] Bill Blight: None I am aware of, using it on many regions<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Latest is up to 6.4.0 according to their download page.<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: gezz<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: they are still changing that fast<br />
<br>[12:07] Kayaker Magic: I'm building with mono 6.3 or higher, no problems.<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: They seem to have been bumping version numbers quite a lot. I don't even think I remember the 5 series<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I just checked and I see I have 6.4.0 on my machine.<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: don't blink or you will miss Mono 8 ... LOL<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: At the rate they are going that could happen.<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything more for today or shall we wrap things up for this week?<br />
<br>[12:10] Kayaker Magic: it's a wrap!<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: saran? ;)<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, that will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I just checked and I do have one machine that has mono 5.12 on it.<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: ugg<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: that is the evil version I think<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Another evil version?<br />
<br>[12:13] Bill Blight: I think it was 5.12 I had a ton of issues with<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: well we do compile things on 5.12<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: and release will be comp on 5.12<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... odd. I just did a yum update on that remote machine and now it reports mono 6.4.0 but it didn't update any mono packages.<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: i had to totally remove mono on one update<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: the automatic did a mess<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: don't remember the details<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: it was working fine for bill, not for me.. hmm something<br />
<br>[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to know. I will rebuild the OS on that remote machine using 6.4 and update the grid.<br />
<br>[12:17] Bill Blight: I did have an upgrade issue on a different machine and had to purge and re-install the 6 version<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-10-23T03:17:21Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
* No meeting was held on 2019-01-08<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2017-12-19<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-10-01Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-012019-10-01T19:27:20Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[10:59] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, I seem to have overloaded my region on my Raspberry Pi. <br>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have you? <br>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.o..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[10:59] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, I seem to have overloaded my region on my Raspberry Pi.<br />
<br>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have you?<br />
<br>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how?<br />
<br>[10:59] Kayaker Magic: It stated spitting "out of memory" errors from scripts,<br />
<br>[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you pull the plug?<br />
<br>[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: reboot?<br />
<br>[11:00] Kayaker Magic: when I restarted it, those scripts say their state is missing.<br />
<br>[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: check the printer^<br />
<br>[11:00] Kayaker Magic: "unable to load script state file"<br />
<br>[11:01] Kayaker Magic: Just happened 10 minutes ago, no time to check things out.<br />
<br>[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just delete the ScriptEngines folder and let it recompile them again<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless something happened to the file system of course<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did the machine crash?<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: I've been adding prims, scripted items, thousands of trees, a ski-lift, toboggans, FPS was still good.<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: System still up, restarted mono OpenSim<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are you running off of the sd card?<br />
<br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but it is only a few weeks old!<br />
<br>[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have it on a USB stick<br />
<br>[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: opensim will probalby exhaust the number of writes on an sd card in a very short time<br />
<br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Thinking of moving DB and cache to a usb spinning drive.<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: dou you have the db on the sd card?<br />
<br>[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, it was all I had at first.<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have the db on a database server not running on a PI<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am testing a patch LL made to keep the avatar in a cloud state a bit longer till it was fully loaded<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit Umarov: ive clouds off :)<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for some of you it works ok, 3 of you are not declouded<br />
<br>[11:07] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: oh?<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Leighton, Royale, Selby and Kajaker<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are in a cloud<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: well i do see those fine<br />
<br>[11:08] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I see no clouds except in he sky<br />
<br>[11:08] Kayaker Magic: I see everyone fine., but did a rebake<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but you don't have that patch that is 4 hours old ;-)<br />
<br>[11:08] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: LOL<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: sure with clouds off i need to look for missing parts :)<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Royale cleared up<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kayaker too<br />
<br>[11:09] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I see everyone ok I was missing a few things when I arrive but fixed with a rebake<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: selby still loves lauren<br />
<br>[11:09] Sheera Khan: I can see him just fine<br />
<br>[11:09] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I rebaked<br />
<br>[11:10] Sheera Khan: even including his textures<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: but well HG, always well.. HG<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably not going to take that patch<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: its spec should had been a lot less ambitious<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: somethings just can't be done<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: or are unpractical<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[11:12] Sheera Khan sprinkles a bit of fairy dust over Selby to make him appear to Ubit ;-)<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: ahh remember me to kick metro in yr im sheera.Khan<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is Selby fogged for all of you?<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: sleby is fine for me<br />
<br>[11:12] Kayaker Magic: Ooooh! Where can I get some of that fairy dust?<br />
<br>[11:13] Kayaker Magic: No, Selby has been fine all along.<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: everyone looks fine<br />
<br>[11:13] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I see all fine<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: well selby just rebaked :)<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: and again ?<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
<br>[11:14] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Did another rebake<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: leighton came out of the fog<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: mb just "lag" for you<br />
<br>[11:15] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: phew<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: hmm andrew's cat seems afk<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: well you may had seen that FS did released a new version<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: SL only<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: no AS IS thing...<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't even have any wearables to test it on in SL<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and most certainly not going to buy some<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: buy a S something body :p<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have not purachsed any wearables in SL since 2011<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: well having 2 diferent releases, is nothing new.. it is a must, just so far they where able to do it at same time<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: they had to release a BoM version fast, many SL creators did release BoM products as soon LL released their viewer<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: and since they have no opensim dev.. well you know the movie..<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: guess all viewers should have 2 versions also<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: at least so they use Havok mesh tools at SL<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: ( and payed kdu )<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only FS has access to Havok tools in SL<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: think FS payed for KDU lic so they can use it on opensim also<br />
<br>[11:26] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: Alchemy disables access to havok tools if the platform is not SL<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: possibly<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: oh? tpvs can't use havok for SL ?<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only FS for some reason<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they are more or less a dept of LL these days<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well thats the "update" i have on the FS issue<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: opensim version is 6.0.2<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Is 6.0.2 safe to use?<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: as one can tell about any viewer :)<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have an updated version of Dayturn out.<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: nice<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was a bit of a mess for a day or two as too much cacheing all around made it look like it fetched data as it should<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: reverted some http code, and it is now OK<br />
<br>[11:35] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: is Firestorm 6.0.2 the last version for Opensim<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br>[11:36] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I mean the last release we will get<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: not according to them<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: they do plan to support opensim<br />
<br>[11:37] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: The way I read it was it was going to be difficult without an Opensim viewer developer.<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: subject to developer availability?<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: keep reaffirm that on all statements<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: well having a dev is a requirement<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: at least one able to look to other viewers and get patchs<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: for example that Liru one for llupd estate new tabs<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: you seen it ?<br />
<br>[11:40] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: No<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: last time I tried it just got completely stuck<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: well she did bridge old lludp with the new code for those tabs<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: master should do the new cap...<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: as far we can tell with Bills openstorm, it is doing it<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: ( warning again, OpenStorm is only for regions on master version also )<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: about new code.. wel lthink i done nothing since last week :(<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: even you need a break ;-)<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: so you ppl?<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: any issue?<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: hmm looking to selby...<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: for some reason seems LMs made at kitely don't work here<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: sounds like they are blocking landmarks assets from getting out<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that makes sense<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: had planed to go to their meetings to chat with ilan, but missed it<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tbh I have more or less given up on Kitely<br />
<br>[11:49] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Will test -- have some<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: possible only new ones<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: dunno<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: they seem to work with kitely accounts<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: just HG travellers they don't work<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: yes seems they work with local accounts :)<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: there went selby<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he declouded<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: no he did tp out LOL<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: but dec on standing?<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: about other viwers.. dayturn, we have gavin here<br />
<br>[11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: worked for me<br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, what about it<br />
<br>[11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: from here<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: alchemy, cinder was looking to our mail lists and did reacted.. telling there mb a new release...<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: singu.. liru seems active, no idea about releases..<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: other.. i don't know<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have not tested Cool VL for a while<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: see a few claiming BoM .. carefull with those<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so if I take the new FS for SL and log in with it, the region will crash?<br />
<br>[12:00] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: does it even have a grid selector?<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: not this one :p<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: better not mess with their release<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it should be able to go to an address if started from the command line<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: test with openstorm<br />
<br>[12:01] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: wasn't that command line option pulled years ago?<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah but we have no idea of the all the defines they used on that SL only build<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, it should be there<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: so better not mess with that<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe not for the release build, but if you had a debug build<br />
<br>[12:02] Bill Blight: my test version is only 3 commits or so behind their release, and they are commits that should not affect opensim<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: well they made a compile for me<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: but forgot to create a account for me to get into that machine to download it :p<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: a build i mean<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: but at this point even i can compile it .. just no audio bc im lazy to get the lib<br />
<br>[12:06] Bill Blight: https://downloads.openstormviewer.org/<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where is the macOS build? ;-)<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: (warning 2.. that may also have crazy Bill's testing changes :p )<br />
<br>[12:08] Bill Blight: no, not too crazy<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: 64km size prims.. duhhh<br />
<br>[12:08] Bill Blight: but does have build constraints disabled<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not good Ubit<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: NO only 1024<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: not 64k<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you change it back?<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: "This project is curently only for testing and deveopment purposes , and not intended for public/general distribution!<br />
<br><br />
<br>Support: NONE<br />
<br>Crashes: Most LIkely<br />
<br>Weirdness: Definitely<br />
<br>Alien Invasion: Could Happen!<br />
<br>Crash System: See above<br />
<br>Require Exorcism: Run Away!<br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br>In all seriousness, this is not ready for primetime.<br />
<br><br />
<br>This is a fork of the Firestorm Development code, and not really inteded to be released.<br />
<br><br />
<br>Serious Testers only."<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was 64k at some point<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: yeah it was<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: I changed it back<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:11] Bill Blight: I did change the max build height from 4096 to 8192 .. Better better out of sight build platforms<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: remember the precision issues<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: also on vars X and Y<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: and thankx<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: yeah, so far in testing nothing major, anything over 8192 was hella unpredictable<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you need a build platform, spawn a new region<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not like you have to pay $300 per month....<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: yeap sandbox are a SL tiny parcels thing<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: well can be usefull for intermediate tps etc..<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: arrival locations<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wear a parachute or hanglider, tp to a height and fly back down<br />
<br>[12:14] Bill Blight: yep<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: but 2km guess its enough<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: the way math is done, some things may survive..<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: but was never a consideration on opensim, at least<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: AND we WILL NOT CHANGE TO DOUBLE :p<br />
<br>[12:16] Bill Blight: Nothing to say but to test it, if it works, no reason to not leave it at that .. but as I said , when I got much above 8192 it got weird in a hurry<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: even the IBM 1401 had double<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen it run FORTRAN<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: we are not a science simulator<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the IBM 1401 was a business mainframe from 1959<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with 16k word memory<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: but float are the thing to use<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: or single<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: SIMD now does have double also.. but yeackkk<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: no idea about gpus do they have double?<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: anyways most libs dont even support double, or do it in a limited way<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQ3sajIdaM<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-10-01T19:26:30Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-09-24Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-242019-09-24T19:09:33Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[10:49] Ubit Umarov: sent a few emails on opensim-dev, for viewer devs :) <br>[10:50] Ubit Umarov: assuming that one other that cinder that already answer to one, does read it..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[10:49] Ubit Umarov: sent a few emails on opensim-dev, for viewer devs :)<br />
<br>[10:50] Ubit Umarov: assuming that one other that cinder that already answer to one, does read it :)<br />
<br>[10:56] Ubit Umarov: hi gavin seen my emails on opensim-dev ?<br />
<br>[10:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen there is a couple messages, without reading them<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit Umarov: ( think we spoke about those issues already)<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit Umarov: gezz how do you dare not readimg emails from me??<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[10:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because I do some system upgrades :-)<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit Umarov: you did hurt my feelings.. sniff snifff<br />
<br>[10:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: deal with it , hehe<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Visual Studio for macOS went to mono 6.4 today<br />
<br>[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I guess I'll have to test that too<br />
<br>[11:01] Ubit Umarov: tampa said 6.4 does compile opensim with 0 errors<br />
<br>[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does it run it too :-O<br />
<br>[11:02] Ubit Umarov: i asked the same, not answer :)<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: aha<br />
<br>[11:04] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: was sort of hoping a Firestorm dev might show up<br />
<br>[11:04] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: IT runs on 6.4 fine, but have not had it running long enough to know if it runs well .<br />
<br>[11:05] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: but no instant problems<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Have any of the FS devs been invited to attend these meetings?<br />
<br>[11:05] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: open invite<br />
<br>[11:05] Ubit Umarov: dreaming Arielle ?<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Perhaps they might need a reminder.<br />
<br>[11:05] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i did mention on their blog that i had never seen one in the 8 years i been coming<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right, the first version of 6.0.xxx were somewhat flaky<br />
<br>[11:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: as did a ceretain Anonymous poster<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit Umarov: they always did target SL mostly<br />
<br>[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes well they have enough of a team they could do both<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit Umarov: no idea how old are the FS/opensim historic flames<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: that should just be history now..<br />
<br>[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: instead of getting 5 different versions of opensim bothering them they could have come here for an hour and informed all at once<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: yes we need some kind of "critical mass" to talk with viewer devs<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: meaning?<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: what you mean meaning ?<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some kind of "critical mass"<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: yes critical mass ie user base etc<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ic<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: that is the worse problem with forks<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: dissolves the user base<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: do all became meaningless<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: so all...<br />
<br>[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i pointed out in the blog that we could have upwards of 40,000 Opensim Firestorm users<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OSG also contributes to that not using standard opensim<br />
<br>[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: how is it not standard?<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: osg used mostly standard opensim<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not using the standard modules<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not supporting My Suitcase<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as two examples<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: only a few this like assets server does diverge a bit<br />
<br>[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it is a choice<br />
<br>[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: version 1<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: to fit better on their raids<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are supposed to be the test grid / reference implementation<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well hg 1.5 is still a option<br />
<br>[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Version 1<br />
<br>[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: 1.5 had some sort of suitcase i thought<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: they also do not allow any delete of trash, except via web<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: that was a protection<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br>[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: s some users had their inventory trashed<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: and for some very odd reason they love Bullet<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my point being that viewer developers needs a reference implementation<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well lbsa is on ubode :)<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to test against<br />
<br>[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well because it prevented their mesh builds from being broken<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like the SL test grid<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: on most things they are on core code<br />
<br>[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what does the reference viewer mean anyway?<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: isnt their current opensim one work for that?<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it means you have a verified implementation of functionality<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like they have for SL<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where both the viewer and backend code are constantly verified against each other<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and adjusted accordingly<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: yes but they follow all LL meetings and to what LL tells them<br />
<br>[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well would need master release updated by a year or so first :)<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: they do not tell LL to file issues on they jira :p<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: and things like that<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: most viewers just told that to any opensim dev<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: these viewers primarily exist to serve LL customers<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but even that is getting harder and harder<br />
<br>[11:17] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: found any problems on your beta BoM viewer Bill?<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my take is they will all be gone in 2 years or so<br />
<br>[11:17] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: If LL tells any TPV dev to do something that is going to break Opensimulator support, guess which one looses .. <hint> not LL/SL<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: bill seems sleeping<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course they will<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: and he does have a cat to call him like andrew has<br />
<br>[11:18] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: actually was on Doggy duty, catching up with chat<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: The current version of the windows build of my new test viewer has been very stable, so far<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My cat usually calls me for play time rather than reminding me of the meeting.<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats the same one as the one that is linked here/?<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: WARNING: that viewer has no safeguards for older regions either<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill Blight: No<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill Blight: yes<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill Blight: that is why I have not updated this one<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill Blight: because it can crash older regions<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sweet<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: possible will never have, since bill targets latest opensim code<br />
<br>[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I was noticing alpha issues but wasnt sure if it was just me jumping different grids and it got corrupted<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill Blight: can, but hasn't yet<br />
<br>[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: When things calm down a bit on the projects I'm currently working on I'm going to update the version of Linux Mint I'm running. That will allow me to test the version of viewer Bill has released.<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: ( not sure we can call it a release still )<br />
<br>[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: not seen it crash any regions i went to<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Hy is also looking at the FS code now that she can build FS in 18 minutes<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: well i sent a few emails to opensim-dev about a few viewer issues<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: cinder answer one, and may fix alchmy hover even today<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: as gavin and bill already did<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: that half of a line code change :)<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill Blight: LOL yeah<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill Blight: was brutal<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill Blight: :P<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you made the viewer About box because of that<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: yeah<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: what??? i wasn't there already ??<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: bad gavin.Hird<br />
<br>[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: does Daytrun have advanced lighting?<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you ever submit any code to the viewer?<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Released in to the wild if not in an actual release state. :)<br />
<br>[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: turn<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: yeap did did<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: once even patch to singu<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not to my knowledge<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: that liru refused<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but in any case you are there now<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: and then sienna approved :)<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: was visualparameters think if i remember<br />
<br>[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: was that a response to me Gavin?<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: other things got there bc i said<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course it has Advanced lighting<br />
<br>[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: im not a viewer dev, im not suposed to mess with viewer code<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but I introduced a bug in 1.4.6 which is being fixed in 1.4.8 for point lights<br />
<br>[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: someone said it didnt and thats why they wouldnt use it so i can tell them they are full of it<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: and most likely if im forced to have a viewer dev step ready to produce patchs<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: they were talking about dayturn in the Dreamgrid group on Mewe<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they only reason why it might not be possible to turn on is because it did not recognize their graphics card<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: then mostly likely i will just release a opensim viewer<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: a number were expressing interest<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you will Ubit?<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: It is good to see a few different viewers targetting OS. It remains to be seen if one will stand out from the rest.<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is an issue that has popped up with the Windows version that My Suitcase don't show<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: based on which current viewer?<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh?<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: no ill avoid it as much as possible, and possible will also not have the time for it<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and I cannot for the bare life of me find out why has the code to support it was added in 2015, and it has worked for the macOS version since<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: But.. i will not produce any formal patch again<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I went back and tested old Windows versions and it never worked<br />
<br>[11:30] Bill Blight: x32 builds of Kokua had issues showing the suitcase<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: ( that one i did to singu was rejected as i said... and would had stayed broken if sienna did not step in )<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the support code is identical to Alchemy and Singu<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it must have had Bill<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: if it was accepted in the end Ubit, whats the prob?<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it never worked, and I went back and tested that far<br />
<br>[11:31] Bill Blight: x64 it worked<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the code is still even in Kokua SL<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you dont fall over backwwards and rush to put in patched either when someone submits to core<br />
<br>[11:31] Bill Blight: but yeah the x32 never worked right<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suspect it is a library issue, so I will do an overnight build with new libraries<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so basically going to write off any further interaction with Firestorm?<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: thing is that the work from having a tested patch to have a windows64 release is just minlmal<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: other OS ok that does take a lot more time<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: so no point on going beg this or that viewer, "please accept my patch" to most likely get a just plain NO<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: and just "because reasons.."<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what about EEP server side?<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: no idea<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: have you considered it?<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have not even released EEP<br />
<br>[11:37] Bill Blight: LL/SL does not even have it working right yet<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Oz said they need more time<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: how can it at this point if even LL is having issues with it ?<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( or so i was told )<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so i suppose only LL has that code?<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: guess its also public<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is an EEP viewer project<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ahh<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it is still changing<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ( i don't look to ll sources )<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we are not going to release stuff they have not released<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: i could look to LL sources since they are lgpl and our rule about that is gone<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: but i kept part of that rule, i only look to TPVs code<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: ( also no point.. ll code does not work on opensim )<br />
<br>[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Bill, did the code for the BoM viewer come from Firestorm beta viewer or is it Opensim exclusive?<br />
<br>[11:39] Bill Blight: It came from LGPL sources<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: its fs 6.3.2<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: with some changes, like andrew patch, hover patch<br />
<br>[11:40] Bill Blight: so it is the same code they use for LL/SL<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so FS does give out beta viewers to Opensim people?<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the LGPL repository is not release code<br />
<br>[11:40] Bill Blight: correct<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: and a few scary things bill is messing with :P<br />
<br>[11:40] Bill Blight: yep<br />
<br>[11:41] Bill Blight: if going to screw with it, I'm going to SCREW with it ..<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: LL mentioned they have several projects in the works. EEP is one of them. A better renderer is another, IIRC. It will remains to be seen what impact those changes may have on OS and any OS specific viewer.<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: particles max size = 7.96m here with it also<br />
<br>[11:41] Bill Blight: yep<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: EEP is a major render change Andrew<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why it is taking them so long<br />
<br>[11:42] Bill Blight: EEP is part of that render change<br />
<br>[11:42] Bill Blight: yep<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is basically trial and error<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they don't understand how the renderer works<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: ( and funny looking the the few docs not even comp to that render love something )<br />
<br>[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Diva/Melanie/Ubit were working on a viewer that used a different renderer. I know that was going to be a longer term project.<br />
<br>[11:42] Bill Blight: it's going to take major changes, and once they switch there is no backwards compatibility ..<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn has the love me render changes<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of them are pretty old<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Love me render changes?<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill Blight: This is a case of "Be careful what you ask for, you might get it"<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well EEP we just need to wait<br />
<br>[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: updates to the renderer accumulated over a good year or so<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Bill.<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: i really don't like the per parcel enviroment.. may never support it<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: but lets see<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: it is even possible we can't have it at all<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: lets see<br />
<br>[11:45] Bill Blight: Well we already know 99% for sure that it cannot co-exist with windlight/lightshare<br />
<br>[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and would any of the changes have a potential effect on the architectural difference Opensim has like standalones<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I can see a per parcel environment useful if you are talking weather. You don't want it raining inside a building.<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but im almost 100% that there is a windlight glue/translation code<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: LL can't not kill current regions windlight settings<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: so im sure there is a translation path<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: possible ll region servers only<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have deployed multiple server side changes to support legacy windlight<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but also some viewer changes<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: so can't be a absolute Drama, because ll can not do absolute dramas :p<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: ( still seems they have done a few.. so i was told :p )<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the first versions looked like shit on a normal viewer with black stars all over at daytime and weired sky colors<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: you mean black holes sky then ?<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: something like that :-))<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well we need to wait for viewers ppl to have their pains, before we can look to it<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: and then make them have even more pain :p<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: remember that windlight was a issue also back in the day<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: terrible folks, those viewer ppl<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Just under 10 minutes before the top of the hour. Does anyone have a question on another OS topic they wanted to ask?<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: opensim support for it was odd, and viewers had special code for opensim<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: well it is still odd :p<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Apparently not. I just want to make sure people have the opportunity to ask their questions and not feel left out. )<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Did you get your Pi up and running Andrew?<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I haven't had time to do more than take it out of the box and look at it. I've inserted the memory stick in to it and put it in its case. That's it. Still hasn't been powered up.<br />
<br>[11:55] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: it's nice to hear renewed interest in an OS specific viewer being openly discussed<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wow<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: patience<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: JayR, there is always interest. It is whether people are available with the interest and skills to work on an OS specific viewer.<br />
<br>[11:56] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: yep<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: and time...<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Too busy with work and another project.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: most current devs time, must be used to break regions code<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: i mean fix<br />
<br>[11:56] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol :_)<br />
<br>[11:56] Kayaker Magic: LOL<br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I'm getting closer to having software ready to be burned in to an EPROM so I can test out my computer in an Altoids tin project.<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Ubit<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all right<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am waiting for the boot loader update to boot from ssd for the PI. But they have provided a 64-bit kernel which seems to be stable and much faster for IO<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: about that FS incident<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, If you don't need the micro SD for anything you can start the boot off that then have it mount and use the partitions on an SSD.<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not for the PI 4<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: i have not seen any other ofificial statements from them, so things are as my recomendation email<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it can only boot from sd card<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: but had some private contacts telling the that AS IS will not be that AS IS<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: so safer to use by our users..<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: lets see<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as is sounds a bit hazardous<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I see items on eBay sold "as is". Often means broken or not working. ;)<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: the way its was specified is just unacceptable<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I sell my stuff on SL marketplace as is<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it limits the complaints<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is just a bunch of bits anyway<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: and just by direct consequence, any viewer that drops a protocol needed by opensim, auto excluded it self from the opensim viewers set<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: It is just past the top of the hour. Any last minute comments for today?<br />
<br>[12:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what e-mail from you Ubit?<br />
<br>[12:04] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: gots a link?<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: on our mail lists<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: drops as in remove, or drops as in don't have<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: osg and other grids did post it on their forums also<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: It is past the top of the hour so let's close this meeting officially for today.<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-09-24T18:59:27Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-09-17Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-172019-09-18T04:38:05Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[10:50] Kayaker Magic: Did you see I put an example script in your osSlerp documentation? <br>[10:51] Kayaker Magic: This stick is rotating using osSlerp to calculate the rota..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[10:50] Kayaker Magic: Did you see I put an example script in your osSlerp documentation?<br />
<br>[10:51] Kayaker Magic: This stick is rotating using osSlerp to calculate the rotations!<br />
<br>[10:52] Kayaker Magic: llSetKeyframedMotion would be better, this was just to test osSlerp. And it works great!<br />
<br>[10:53] Kayaker Magic: The hard part was learning YAML (Yet Another Markup Language) to put an example in the OpenSim Wiki page.<br />
<br>[10:54] Kayaker Magic: Why did the first Wiki not just use HTML?<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: indexing repositories<br />
<br>[11:02] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: <-- Merging repositories<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have collected all the 175 repositories involved in building the viewer at some stage in one location for my own reference<br />
<br>[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, 175 repos??<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You must have multiple versions. I didn't think it would take that many repos to build a viewer and its dependencies.<br />
<br>[11:06] Kayaker Magic: It uses lots of other open source libraries<br />
<br>[11:08] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Agent Smith is stealing your repositories<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are free to steal<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Who wants to get us started this week?<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will set you back about 40 GB of disk space<br />
<br>[11:10] Kayaker Magic: OK, back to OpenSim, I wrote a test script for the new OSSL function osSlerp, it works great! This wiggling stick over the bar is running it.<br />
<br>[11:11] Kayaker Magic: And the hard part is I learned YAML (Yet Another Markup Langurage) and added it as an example to the Wiki.<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nice<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thank you for doing that, Kayaker.<br />
<br>[11:12] Kayaker Magic: llSetKeyframedMotion would be better for this, but it is just a test.<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'll have a look at it as I still haven't figured out why it is needed.<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ditto<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( of course kfm also uses slerp )<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( just the float version of it on libomv, of course )<br />
<br>[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Well, before llSetKeyframedMotion worked in OpenSim, I had to write my own Lerp function in LSL<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well standard stuff.. and just a aux function<br />
<br>[11:14] Kayaker Magic: I suppose osSlerp is a math function to "calculate a rotation between two others"<br />
<br>[11:14] Kayaker Magic: that sounds useful.<br />
<br>[11:16] Kayaker Magic: I guess you have to be a math geek to appreciate it.<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXajpAy5-UI<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or someone needing to interpolate rotations :p<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, Is that going to make some eyes glaze over? :)<br />
<br>[11:19] Kayaker Magic: LOL<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: HAHA<br />
<br>[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Looks like everyone has already glazed over....<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Maths is hard ........ Sometimes<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I like math. This is getting in to areas of math I've not needed to deal with and as I'm not in to graphics theory quaternions and now slerp were new to me.<br />
<br>[11:21] Kayaker Magic: In my spare time I want to do a tutorial video for LSL programmers: "How to think in rotations"<br />
<br>[11:22] Kayaker Magic: I think I have some spare time scheduled for 2031<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have a viewer related question for Gavin.<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, It has been reported to me that there is a viewer problem in Firestorm regarding sending of group invites. IIRC, the problem is in picking the name of the person you want to invite in to a group. Are you aware of any problems related to group invites in dayturn?<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, but I cannot say it has been extensively tested<br />
<br>[11:24] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: It may also have to do with what group module you are using<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: picking from the same grid?<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could very well be Bill<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. I wanted to join two closed groups in Kitely and the person who wanted to invite me couldn't do it due to a known problem in FS. Ilan suggested switching to Singularity to send the invite. That was tried later and it didn't work either.<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Firestorm has more new SL code for that<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so there might be some interaction there too<br />
<br>[11:26] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I think I have seen that problem -- I cannot reproduce it reliably, though -- it is just there sometimes.<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL have been tweaking their group functions over and over lately<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. Kitely is still running 0.8 and they say they have 400+ patches to the code. I have no idea which groups system they are using.<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have stopped testing on Kitely (almost) because it behaves very different from other grids<br />
<br>[11:28] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: ditto<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am not going to have viewer code specifically for Kitely<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: do they have their own viewer then?<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:28] Kayaker Magic: Kitely has refused to upgrade to 0.9 since Melanie dumped 9000 changes on the code and made it unstable in their opinion.<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: think it was 5000 but yeah<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I help out a group of people who are using Kitely and that issue came up recently.<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what they have is already heavily modified<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Since then Kitely has fixed a bunch of bugs themselves and merging back to 0.9 would be painful and time consuming for them.<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: melanie did not dump 9000 changes, i did :p<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe¨<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: on her authority<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: after her permission..<br />
<br>[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I started to go through all the changes to summarize the mega dump. I may have been closer to 3,000. I don't remember now. I still have about 2,000 changes to go through.<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is fine they fix bugs for themselved but if nobody else know about it, it is damn hard to support<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well and we are here, using them :p<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: yes they could have pushed changes back to a .8.2 master and kept that going<br />
<br>[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kitely is starting to talk about 0.9<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well with some updates<br />
<br>[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: lot of people would have appreciated it back then<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and kitely position as i remember was never againt's 0.9x<br />
<br>[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I get the impression that one of Kitely's education customers is pushing for 0.9. If not having 0.9 would loose customers, Kitely might have to do the merge.<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but about the problems of integrating 0.9x with their own changes and infrastrure<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You should check the meeting log for the most recent Kitely gathering. IIRC, they said something along the lines of they will evaluate 0.9 and see what patches of theirs needs to be applied to it. I don't recall exactly if they also mentioned submitting some of the patches back to the OS code base.<br />
<br>[11:34] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kitely expects to go to 0.9, but wants to delay for other work, they may be pressured by a customer and move the date up.<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they know we are here to talk and help etc<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I think Kitely still has their hands full with the new Organizations thing and HiFiKi.<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: they have a core dev still dont they?<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i did had a nice chat about that with ilan a few weeks ago<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: when i was at their sundays meeting<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arielle, I don't know who they have helping out with code development.<br />
<br>[11:36] Kayaker Magic: Kitely is a small team: Only two guys.<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: one of the core team is listed as such<br />
<br>[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I understood that Oren was a core<br />
<br>[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I know it isn't me. :)<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: surprised the core here didnt realize that<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I haven't seen or heard anything from Oren in quite a while.<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: kitely is a well organized comercial operation. That defines own set of priorities<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could it be because he has not submitted anything for ages<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but he is still listed as being on the core dev team<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a list<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, it isn't just that. I haven't even seen him in the core developer IRC channel in ages.<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: of 6<br />
<br>[11:38] Ramesh.Origin @login.rezmela.net:8002: Oren is still with kitely, working on HiKiFi at the moment<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: all core devs are listed.. we never remove one<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: just change its status/rights<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: you did a while back Ubit<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well one was removed long long bf me i think<br />
<br>[11:38] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Oren has been working on HiFIKi and Organizations. Organizations is paying off<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: justin is still a core dev, or adam :p<br />
<br>[11:39] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Well and that is the main focus of Kitely is the "Pay off" , so it does not benefit their dev to share or promote activity with a "Free" , opensource project ..<br />
<br>[11:39] Ramesh.Origin @login.rezmela.net:8002: I interacted with Oren, last on Jun 25 ... about the kitely API for organizations<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and they have the right to return, just telling hi, im back<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: not active nor can they have a vote on submissions<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: according to the rules they set up<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: 6 months of inactivity forfeits voting rights if i remember<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ramesh, you asked me about animated mesh. There are several examples of that in this region.<br />
<br>[11:42] Ramesh.Origin @login.rezmela.net:8002: OK camming<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: New viewer versions out at the usual place https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are fixes for animesh in it<br />
<br>[11:42] Bill Blight: you walked between two animated mesh when you came in<br />
<br>[11:43] Kayaker Magic: The easy examples of animated mesh is to animate mesh bodies. There are much more powerful uses possible.<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Ramesh, there is a small figure walking around on top of the bar and there are two dancing figures just outside this area in the direction you are facing.<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: anim objects must be a avatar mesh part<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which viewer are you on Ramesh?<br />
<br>[11:43] Bill Blight: Yes these are simple examples, but it can get a lot more complicated and useful<br />
<br>[11:43] Ramesh.Origin @login.rezmela.net:8002: It could be that I am using an old Firestorm viewer<br />
<br>[11:43] Ramesh.Origin @login.rezmela.net:8002: because none of these are animating<br />
<br>[11:43] Bill Blight: but they have to be rigged with avatar bones<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: ( ie have avatar joints etc )<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yup<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I think you came up for a name for animated mesh in OS since the term animesh is an SL one.<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill Blight: yep<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill Blight: Well, I found out, SL does not own the name Animesh<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: i still prefer animWhat :p<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill Blight: was just gonna say that<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: animThat<br />
<br>[11:45] Kayaker Magic: I have heard 2 versions: You must make a mesh around the Bento bones to use animesh, and 2) it is possible to make your own armature and animate it with animesh.<br />
<br>[11:45] Kayaker Magic: I hope the second one is true, and want to learn to do that.<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: does not need to be bento avatar<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I would think you could use Blender to rig up a mesh object to be animated.<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: no kayaker<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to use the bento rigging, but you can selectively use the bones you want<br />
<br>[11:45] Bill Blight: yes it is true, but the names of the armature matters unless you make your own totally customized anim<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: it must match the avatar<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: animwhat is just a twisted reuse of the avatar animation system<br />
<br>[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. You have to name the parts of the rigging? I didn't know that. I haven't looked that deeply in to rigging mesh as I have too many other projects already on the go.<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you can make your twisted sister<br />
<br>[11:47] Bill Blight: you have to have use a viewer that is animesh enabled<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: lol<br />
<br>[11:47] Bill Blight: or nada<br />
<br>[11:47] Bill Blight: zip<br />
<br>[11:47] Bill Blight: zilch<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and on a 0.91 snail region<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br>[11:47] Bill Blight: yeppers<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that is also a music group reference. :)<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is :-))<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: ( some ugly ppl replace the name Snail bahh )<br />
<br>[11:48] Bill Blight: but you don't evidently need a new viewer to see double size particles ... (shameless plug)<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I just saw the reference to a change in max particle size. I will need to update my particle generator device to handle the new max size.<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: A better idea would be to set the limit in my generator based on whether the larger size was possible based on the version of OS being run.<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Getting close to the top of the hour once more. Anyone else have a topic they wanted to discuss?<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks looks at Kayaker<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[11:51] Ramesh.Origin @login.rezmela.net:8002: Not for me Andrew<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well last code changes hopefull made regions support new B0M things<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: allowing viewer devs to test it<br />
<br>[11:52] Kayaker Magic: Question for Gavin and Ubit: Why does YEngine not work when I run OpenSim on a Raspberry Pi?<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: without killing the region<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle Popstar: do the blocks to old regions work proper?<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have not even tested it Kayaker<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well it is not a viewer thing, and it should work<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does it need an arm library Ubit?<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle Popstar: that will be fun<br />
<br>[11:53] Kayaker Magic: I tested it, the region didnot finish starting.<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: no its fully managed code now<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I just received a 4GB Pi 4 yesterday. I could try building OS on it some day.<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it compiles in mono<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, what do you need to build OS for a Pi?<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have a zip you can use<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: always good idea to install mono complete<br />
<br>[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Need? Where does need come into any of this?<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right. Should be easy enough.<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/categories/raspberry-pi.4/<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Kayaker.<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ( you do need arm libs for the unmanaged parts like ode)<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't decided yet what I plan on doing with the Pi 4.<br />
<br>[11:55] Kayaker Magic: I built from Gavin's sources, and it does run on my Pi4. Have a region up for 2 weeks on OSGrid.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: ( and don't forget to change default engine on opensim.ini also )<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker: Nice. Do you use heatsinks on the Pi4?<br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it does not have Yengine or Animesh in it<br />
<br>[11:56] Kayaker Magic: I put heatsinks and a fan, but I am paranoid.<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I have heatsinks for mine but don't see how they would be all that effective when the Pi gets put in to a box.<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it reach 80 deg C it trottles to 600 Mhz<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: so its a 0.9.0x version ?<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mine?<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: the one kayaker is testing..<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is 0.9.1--<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well 0.91 has animwhat and Y<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not in my version, :-))<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not yet<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it has osSlerp<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: bahh<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: saving memory taking things out?<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, can you use the latest source from the OS repo and just replace some (or all?) of the dll's with the ones from your source tree?<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: possibly<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the source is here https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/xmiropensim/commits<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: yeah you only need arm native code libs<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for Yengine?<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: no, to compile .91 from master and run it<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the zip I pointed to has the arm compiled libs in the right place<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: we just don't ship arm native libs<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be useful to determine if there are any portability type issues in YEngine by getting it to run on a Pi.<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: Grrrrr<br />
<br>[12:02] Kayaker Magic: There is a use for OpenSim on a Pi! It is an extreme test of the code!<br />
<br>[12:02] Bill Blight: You can get almost as small X86 style systems now, personally I see no use for arm but that is just me ..<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, is that a no?<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: i already answered that yengine issue<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Oracle just built a supercomputer out of 1024 PIs<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you could build a cheap grid cluster too<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: guess a tiny micro supercomputer<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at least for the simulators<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: don't see how 1024 pis can qualify as "supercomputer" this days<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, There are lots of small embedded systems available. Its a toss up as to whether one goes with arm or x86.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: when possible 1024 I7s will not<br />
<br>[12:04] Bill Blight: For sure andrew, so being a toss up, why cause yourself more pain and have to recompile for arm ... :P<br />
<br>[12:04] Kayaker Magic: micro-super computer? Jumbo shrimp?<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: just a way of telling 1024 pis will not make a supercomputer this days :)<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, true. I have run in to one problem where I need to build some source code on an ARM based system. It needs a library only made available for arm v7 and I'm using a box that is arm v8. The compiler doesn't like the v7 library and won't link with it. If I was on x86 it would be a non-issue.<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: intel made huge efford to keep compatibilty since 8086<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: we do pay for it in performance<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: indeed<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: but was a huge market winning decision<br />
<br>[12:07] Bill Blight: I mean don't get me wrong, I used to develop on arm when I was doing a lot of android things, but , when you start talking about porting non-native things to it, "Just because", I prefer to spare myself the headache ..<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: even the 8086 is a direct upgrade of the 8085<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have had to compile 3 libs as arm<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the rest runs fine on mono 6<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: a flat segments program on a 8086 is a 8085 program<br />
<br>[12:08] Kayaker Magic: And on mono 5.18!<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: well or vice versa<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep<br />
<br>[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but mono 6 is more stable and performant<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: thats how they killed motorola 68k<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight flüstert: I'd prefer to use something like this ..<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Wyse-3040-Thin-Client-Quad-Core-Atom-x5-Z8350-1-44-GHz-2GB-No-A-C-cs/183910623162?epid=16030091540&_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item2ad1ed67ba:g:EXgAAOSwytpdSEoV&enc=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&checksum=18391062316268bc1af0a1dd42509f14447a3311feb5<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: omg what a link<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: wowo<br />
<br>[12:09] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, Mono 6 was finally released and I am updating my systems to it.<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: 68k has nothing to do with the 6809<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: If the 68k had come out a few months earlier it would have been used instead of the 808x.<br />
<br>[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mono 6 is also built for Buster<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: yeah but motorola almost failed making it<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I was thinking the same thing, Bill<br />
<br>[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the 88k was sort of to take over for the 68k<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but if just fizzled<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: motorola management was about to kill the micro cpus division when they finally made it work<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The 6809 and 68k are two of my favourite microprocessors.<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: we are talking about just weeks time<br />
<br>[12:11] Kayaker Magic: I looked at some of those Thin Client boxes Bill, and they require a bit of hacking to break them open and load your own code on them.<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: I Have a little Lenovo Q190 with 8gig of ram and 500gb SSD,<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: some are much easier and don't require anything<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: yeah spending $ on old junk instead of donating it to me<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do you have a donation button Ubit?<br />
<br>[12:13] Kayaker Magic: I was going to ask that!<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: no just a paypal account<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all right<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: made a button also, but didn't placed it anywhere<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: think there is a page with donation pointers for me and andrew<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br />
<br>[12:14] Kayaker Magic: I have a donate prim that goes to PayPal, I'll bring one next week and give it to you. Set it out here!<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't remember the location of that page<br />
<br>[12:14] Arielle Popstar: set yourself up to take gloebits too<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is the page a secret?<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: no, just i forgot its url :)<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ic...<br />
<br>[12:15] Arielle Popstar: the fate of opensim is in his hands :P<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: its related to a discord channel ?<br />
<br>[12:16] Bill Blight: https://opensimworld.com/page/?pg=fundos<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: we will not put such things on our site, until there is a decision, even a talk about that, of course<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx<br />
<br>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Took me a moment to recognize that "fundos" meant "fund os". :)<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ahh thx bill<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am sort of expecting LL to release EEp today<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: about BoM, as you know Bill did compile a fork of FS<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but I might be wrong<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: that does it<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: you can get it on that colorfull avatar in center<br />
<br>[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, yes but it has dependencies on libraries not on my machine.<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: BUT do not use it on other regions<br />
<br>[12:19] Bill Blight: I have newer versions and will be posting a link to a repository after I get it all cleaned up<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: at least wearing the Universal thing<br />
<br>[12:19] Arielle Popstar: why not use on other regions?<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: BUMMMM<br />
<br>[12:19] Arielle Popstar: can i use it in s/l?<br />
<br>[12:20] Arielle Popstar: yes i havent sen any issues<br />
<br>[12:20] Bill Blight: (I have not killed any yet, but I don't go to any 8x or older 9x regions)<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: for SL i can only recomend the use of SL official or TPVs releases<br />
<br>[12:21] Bill Blight: well yes the OS versions does not have Havok support so, your experience may suck<br />
<br>[12:21] Arielle Popstar: i was going to use it at tommorrows s/l meeting<br />
<br>[12:21] Arielle Popstar: because the FS team wouldnt give me a beta fs to try out<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: well i did tested it at SL.. but can't recomend.. one should not mess with sl servers with a untested viewer<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-09-18T04:37:26Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-09-10Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-102019-09-11T04:28:47Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I can't run the version of the BoM viewer Bill supplied. It uses libraries that are no on my system <br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: as we ..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I can't run the version of the BoM viewer Bill supplied. It uses libraries that are no on my system<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: as we said last meeting he is wearing a simple mesh avatar<br />
<br>[11:08] Kayaker Magic: I was hoping Gavin would be here. I have questions about the Raspberry Pi OpenSim<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: that with BoM will show the system baked textures on those color areas<br />
<br>[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes, I remember. As soon as I saw the funky colours I remembered about the newer viewers.<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: that thing in center table is the same mesh with the textures with colors<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: a colour per each part that can be replaced by the avatar baked textures<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: that is the basic set..<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: that basic BoM should work on most regions<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: well with proper viewer..<br />
<br>[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Does BOM work with mesh bodies?<br />
<br>[11:11] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: That is the main point<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: what do you think the M on BoM means? :p<br />
<br>[11:11] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: that is why I'm wearing a mesh avatar<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: thats Bakes On Mesh<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: something ll did deploy on all their regions a few weeks ago<br />
<br>[11:12] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: It currently does not work on anything not attached to an avatar<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: walking around busy areas with older viewer we see several like bill is now<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah and silly, to even set the mesh textures one needs to be wearing it<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... Firestorm must have changed the location of their viewer code. I get a 403: forbidden message when I try to do an hg pull,.<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: i mean to set to the BoM magic texture ids<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: its hg.firestorm.. now<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: it was hg.phoenix...<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: https://hg.firestormviewer.org/<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: i had same issue<br />
<br>[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hg is the command used to pull. I was trying to update my copy of the code repo that I last updated in July of last year.<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: plug as we said the repo url changed<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I figured that out from the 403: forbidden message.<br />
<br>[11:15] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I just posted the link to the new one<br />
<br>[11:15] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: see above<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: how nice you did, well done<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: well actually that is a link to all the repos<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: :P<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Are you using a viewer based on the pre-release code?<br />
<br>[11:16] Kayaker Magic: This is probably a question about MONO: Doesn't it "compile" into an intermediate 'P' code, so anything that runs on an x86 mono system should work on an ARM system?<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: No<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: https://hg.firestormviewer.org/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: the most updated<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: that was a big reasoning jump :p<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: ( and failed one ;) )<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: well about opensim..<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: you may had noticed i disabled avatar hover again<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm getting the phoenix-firestorm-lgpl-os version as it says it is for OS.<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: a) opensim code wasn't still good<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: b) viewers code is bad<br />
<br>[11:18] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I found a better way for low energy systems and still stay on x86 ... Use old thin clients or embedded systems that have x86 CPUs , still low power but don't have to re-invent the wheel, and also still have plenty of I/O<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: my work copy kinda has a) fixed, but i made several other changes<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: and they are still a lot faster than PIs<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, will that branch still works on OpenSim?<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yes<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: still doing basic testing on those<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: they have not removed the OS stuff<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: YET<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: yes and FS team is considering merging it all again<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: they still did not reach a decision, but considering it<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: or as an option ...<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: https://bitbucket.org/BillBlight/openstorm/src/default/<br />
<br>[11:20] Kayaker Magic: Bill, what are the specifications of your old embedded systems?<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: the split also has own issues<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: the chicken/egg beeing one<br />
<br>[11:21] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: currently using https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-IdeaCentre-Q190-8GB-RAM-500GB-HDD-Intel-Celeron-1-6GHz-PC-Desktop/333318068768?epid=216912755&hash=item4d9b4e1a20:g:dLUAAOSw~oldWGQw<br />
<br>[11:21] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: one of those<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: ( good arielle arrived after me telling i did disabled avatar hover<br />
<br>[11:21] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: got i for 30$<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: Ohh damm i said that?<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: why you do that?<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: read the meeting log :p<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: We talked a bit more about BoM. Who wants to start us on the next topic for todays meeting?<br />
<br>[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: what was the result of the BoM talk?<br />
<br>[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: still backwardly incompatible in core?<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: basicly a recap of last meeting<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: no way around that<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: ( and still nothing on core )<br />
<br>[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: use a different method?<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: stop firing dust into the air..<br />
<br>[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: there are 3 different methods now<br />
<br>[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: yours, Lanani/Hy and a scripted version<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: mine?<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well whatever<br />
<br>[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: well the one you are proposing<br />
<br>[11:27] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: There is only ONE method that is compatible with the viewer<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: 3 different methods of BoM??<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: yes andrew<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I would have expected only one version in the OS code repo. Are you talking viewer side, or customized versions of OS?<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: im not proposing anything<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: im seeing a tpv feature that may be good to support<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: forked os and a scripted version<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: it is a TPVs feature, or may be<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: the BoM you mean or a different feature?<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: we where talking about BoM<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: ok<br />
<br>[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The phoenix repos are excruiatingly slow (or its an HG issue). 18 minutes to go on downloading the viewer code. :P<br />
<br>[11:31] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Viewers only support the SL version of BOM for editing, so if OS needs to work with existing viewers, then it must go the SL/LL/FS route<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: have you chatted to any tpv devs?<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well actually viewers will need to change code for opensim<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: as it may kill regions also<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: it was a surprise to some tpvs devs that the bakes do actually work without SSA/SSB<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: but the way bakes code was made, the viewer side bakes also do the new layers as soon they where defined<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: just a few glithcs<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: baked textures been accessable in viewers for ages<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: and must check if regions do suport them<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: any cb viewer can see that<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: ok show me your AUX3 bake please<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: bahh<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: not on a cb viewer<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but opensim has an ossl function for them anyway<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well and that is irrelevant actually<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: anyone moving on<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: hmm that rememinds me i need to check the npc support functions<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: but those can be a later thing<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: and arielle you are talking about different things<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: if you still don't understand BoM learn about it<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle Popstar: ok<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: it does more than just putting a static texure ID on a face<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle Popstar: nod<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: gavin remember me to tell you a viewers bug on any hover suport<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( for opensim ie no SSA code paths )<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just had to watch the Apple announcements<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right Ubit, I just disabled for the next version<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: funny om FS a chain of odd code does let shape hover work fine<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle Popstar: its not working here'<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: well prob is simple and fix also<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the SL or OS version of FS?<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle Popstar: os<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: viewers send the avatar body_size on setappearence packet right ?<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle Popstar: sl version doesnt work in os<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: all recent opensim versions just use that for physics collision shape<br />
<br>[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sorry I was thinking SL or OS repository<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: bc all old code was just a fail..<br />
<br>[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as there are a half a year difference between them<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill Blight: I'm using the SL repository for the custom test viewer, FS has not removed OS support from that branch yet<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly Bill<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: to get the actual body size one does need to compute all the avatar joints blablabla<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: and viewers do that very well and do tell regions..<br />
<br>[11:45] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I am using the viewer bill mentioned now actually<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: BUT<br />
<br>[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Oh Gavin: That OpenSim Mantis I reported to you about llListen on the Raspberry Pi version: I could not get it to repeat either, didn't have to reboot it just healed itself.<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: before sending they add the offset, breaking it all<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: magic at play Kayaker :-))<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: fs now is sending the avatar hover added to the body_size<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: that means physics can even get a negative size<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: I was running 3 rezzers at once, each one creating objects 5 times a second, each that called llListen. I may have exceeded some other system resource.<br />
<br>[11:47] Arielle Popstar: does physics matter if posing?<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and even if not, that means that the final offset is 1.5 what should be<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and the avatar physics shape is larger than in similar case at sl<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: fix is simple:<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: well when i find the file i tell you :p<br />
<br>[11:48] Arielle Popstar: waits for the simple fix that likely results in breakage<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: goody, goody<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: / correct for the collision tolerance (to make it look like the <br />
<br><Ubit> // agent is actually walking on the ground/object)<br />
<br><Ubit> // NOTE -- when we start correcting all of the other Havok geometry <br />
<br><Ubit> // to compensate for the COLLISION_TOLERANCE ugliness we will have <br />
<br><Ubit> // to tweak this number again<br />
<br><Ubit> const LLVector3 body_size = gAgentAvatarp->mBodySize;<br />
<br><Ubit> msg->addVector3Fast(_PREHASH_Size, body_size);<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: this is how code should read<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: on file agent.cpp<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: those coments are just old, not valid anymore<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: there should be no offset added to body_size there<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: noted<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: ... ok that is the viewer side problem on avatar hover<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: region side issues, i will fix one day :)<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one day :-)<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ( actually already have it fixed :p )<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: just in the middle of a lot of other bugs<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: When are you not in the middle of a lot of bugs, Ubit? :)<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: im changing a bit the appearence code and bakes processing<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: to allow for 11 bakes (and 45 textures on viewers packets )<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: as i said, teleports to regions will be blocked if the destination does not support current outfit<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: user can just change it and try again<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: ( in theory :p )<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: The user will receive a message telling them why they can't TP?<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: to or crossing<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: tp or..<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Good. I'm sure there will be some who won't read the message or won't understand it but that will be their problem.<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: ( gavin file is of course llagent.cpp not agent.cpp )<br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is always ll, or fs for special code they have added<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: that send of appearance is opensim code only now<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: SSA does not use that of course<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: so no need for conditional testing there<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well on FS the handling of avatar hover is so confusing... gezz<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but well viewer devs pains not mine :p<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ok i made you all fall asleep =<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ?<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: Andrew understand what osSlerp is now ? :)<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at the top of the hour. Any other topic for today before we wrap things up?<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I really never check the FS code, so I have no idea of how they handle it. There are a few small sections of code such as the AO, the profile and search that has FS code in Dayturn.<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: i did add a auxiliar math funtion: osSlerp<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: that is a interpolation thing for rotations<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Not really. I did start reading about it but I'm not into graphics theory. I don't know how, or even if, I would ever use it.<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: it is just that.. interpolation<br />
<br>[12:02] Kayaker Magic: linear or angular?<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: linear interpolation will not work well on rotations<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: Spherical<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: it could be done with other LSL<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I just set rotation on an object when I need to rotate it, or use omega to make it spin.<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, the documentation and osslEnable.ini records are missing on that one<br />
<br>[12:02] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I have done it linear in LSL, that was good enough for my use at the time.<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: well i may take all those out<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: always forget to update it :)<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ;-)<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: ( but also forgot to update syntaxe.xml )<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: i did add it to our Wiki :p<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is what I meant by documentation<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Andrew does the website, right?<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I wouldn't know how to create a web page for osSlerp that could provide an example. I can only put it in the wiki as is.and say the function exists.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsSlerp<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I have been updating the wiki pages now and then as new things get added.<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thanks Ubit, then I can update the viewer too<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: well one day someone will translate that wiki entry to english :p<br />
<br>[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. That page just needs a minor update to point out exactly when it was added.<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: there is no need for more than what is there already<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: speciall no GIT commits<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: those pages are for final users<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I prefer to point out which version of OS includes the change, a date, and/or commit #.<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: yeah.. useless info<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: commit # at least<br />
<br>[12:07] Kayaker Magic: I can write an example LSL program to demonstrate it!<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: final users don't care about git<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is actually already in the PI code Kayaker<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: There are people writing code that is being used on different versions of OS. It can be useful as it can help them know if the version of OS they are using supports the function they want to use.for them to know<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: well its just another aux function<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: ppl did the same using other LSL functions<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: well, the OS version number and date are useful.<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: this is just a bit cleaner and faster<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: absolutely Andrew<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah i forgot the os version :p<br />
<br>[12:09] Kayaker Magic: 0.9.1<br />
<br>[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: and a more specific date than 2019.<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: it does tell month :p<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: but whatever change as you like, just do not add commit #<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, Set is supposed to be "September"?<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: i said that needs translation to engish didn't i ? :p<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: gezz<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't realize that is what you were referring to when you said it needed a translation as the rest is in English.<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL just released 137 changesets of bugfixes, which may come in handy<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: unless some of those fixes turn out to be a bug on opensim context :)<br />
<br>[12:13] Bill Blight: You must translate it from portUbitguese to english<br />
<br>[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Bill<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah Setembro :p<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is of course always something that must be tested before using them in the viewer<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: seems EEP is a big change<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that should keep you busy for a day or two.<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: will break windlight and a few more other things<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is a major owne<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: guess we will not have that<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: indeed :-))<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: also the VS2017 rewrite is a major change<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: EEP may be the reason for FS to keep the split<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one of the reasons<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: ohh my local compile of FS failed<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: bc of a bool return type<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: strange it did work before and works for bill<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just love bool<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: i had to chage the type to int to mk it compile here<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ( on 2 offending functions )<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the LL defined BOOL is an int<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: linker just failed to find them<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have split it into a separate file llbool.h<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: linker was looking for int .. and they where bool ..<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: no idea how that was working fine and now failed for me<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: and does work for bill<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: well c++ things<br />
<br>[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't get autobuild to run in order to start trying to compile latest FS code.<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you update anyting since last build?<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: i did pull yes<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: but that file is from 2013 no changes since then<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably some header elsewhere has changed<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: did compile fine etc<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: but linker said NO<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: well i only compiled to test the change on that hover thing i told about<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: had no real need 2 the code was clear<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: and seeing my avatar 4m tall on region data also :)<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: or -0.3m with other set of values<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: min avatar height is around 1.6m with -2 of hover.. boinf .. -0.4m tall.. not funny<br />
<br>[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Surprisingly we are almost half past the hour and haven't had a lot of people having to head out yet.<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: ppl did fall asleep<br />
<br>[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: This is a good time to wrap up the meeting for today.<br />
<br>[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: We usually lose a number of people just after the hour mark.<br />
<br>[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming and staying this long today. See you all again next week.<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: well testing my changes alone is a pain<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: guess ill just commit what i have :p<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: log with several viewers, 3 versions.. yeack<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: 3 avatars online<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: better let you do it :p<br />
<br>[12:29] Bill Blight: same here but from the other side, testing 3 diff versions of the viewer<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: and tell me what smokes :p<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: forgot to tell that tags with viewers versions will be gone<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: as side effect of changes<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: they depend on non standard usage of data<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: data slots<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: they are also a privacy issue<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: so gone<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: ( sl did forbid them ages ago )<br />
<br>[12:32] Arielle Popstar: privacy issue?<br />
<br>[12:32] Bill Blight: yeah I'm gonna bail , need to rebuild a viewer<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: yes sl did not want ppl to see that fs is used a lot more than their own viewer :)<br />
<br>[12:33] Ubit Umarov: 80% share ( according to fs )<br />
<br>[12:33] Arielle Popstar: i see<br />
<br>[12:33] Arielle Popstar: not surprising<br />
<br>[12:33] Ubit Umarov: but there are more privacy issues<br />
<br>[12:34] Ubit Umarov: but well i did changed the code then noticed they where gone :)<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: a pain to support them again, + privacy issues == gone<br />
<br>[12:36] Arielle Popstar: ok<br />
<br>[12:36] Arielle Popstar: oh well<br />
<br>[12:36] Ubit Umarov: also telling others what software we are running is not a good idea<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: see i have this bugged thing that has a exploit over my head.. nahhh<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: it already happened to me in IRC ages ago... :)<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: a damm mirc version with a exploit on dcc<br />
<br>[12:39] Arielle Popstar: nod<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-09-11T04:28:08Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-09-03Chat log from the meeting on 2019-09-032019-09-03T20:40:17Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone. <br>[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What is a BoM viewer? <br>[11:03] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Bake..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone.<br />
<br>[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What is a BoM viewer?<br />
<br>[11:03] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Bake on Mesh<br />
<br>[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, ok. I see BoM and think BOM which means something completely different.<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Here we are for another gathering in the ongoing weekly developer meeting series. :)<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, at the recent Kitely meeting someone commented on the difference in link and unlink speed between 0.8 and 0.9. You replied with "0.91 link does not that that time". I didn't understand the reply. Perhaps you can clarify the statement.<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: just that plugh, he claimed it takes 1sec to link a object on 0.9<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: well it may.. if 1000 prims<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: i think there was a version that did had a somewhat slow link time.. guess on mantis<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how often do you have to link 1000 objects?<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and not have the time to say wait a second<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, I didn't see it as there was a lot of stuff to read through in that meeting. I ran through it quickly.<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I forget which way round it is but between 0.8 and 0.9 one is faster at linking and the other at unlinking.<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well 0.9 still raises some funny claims<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: compared to the time it takes to link the viewer...<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: lol gavin :)<br />
<br>[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Why is your shirt light blue Ubit?<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is his mesh alter ego<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: guess same reason face looks red<br />
<br>[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes him and Bill<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: redskin<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: we are wearing Bake on Mesh, and if you don't have the viewer you see default textures ...<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: like that little guy in central bench<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh need the special viewer for this BoM version?<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: When I can get some time I will have to see if I can get some times for linking and unlinking. It has been a while since I last looked at the SOP/SOG code. I remember noticing that the handling of the lists could be improved in a way that might reduce sending updates to the viewer.<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: reduce the amount of updates<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was thinking perhaps Ubit is preparing for a role in a DC/Marvel movie<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill is just a cloud to me.<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same here<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: fluffy cloud<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok, now I see bill.<br />
<br>[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: will FS be releasing a Opensim version with BoM like s/l does it?<br />
<br>[11:16] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: That is what I see.<br />
<br>[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: he also has the same effect I see on Ubit with red face and purple arms.<br />
<br>[11:17] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: now Bill is rezzing<br />
<br>[11:17] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: he needs to do a rebake then since i bet both of you are on sing<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: baked ands red faced<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: we can't tell what fs will do<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm on FS.<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: or other viewers but dayturn here represented<br />
<br>[11:18] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: And I compiled a version of FS for the BoM<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I want to support BOM, but right now there are other issues / features ahead in the queue<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: but a compiled version of fos does it as bill just said<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: There is even a linux version for Andrew ... :P<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: fos and fs :p<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: isnt there ways to do BoM without needing special viewer support?<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good to know, Bill.<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think so Arielle<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: Arielle No<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh i know there is Gavin<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: NOt if you want/need a viewer interface for it<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: its a viewer side hack, and not that easy<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it was a leading question<br />
<br>[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i see<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we looked into the Bitbucket deleting all repositories<br />
<br>[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: can i see a picture of the interface?<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and the issue of converting it to git<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: you mean HG ?<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is very error prone for the viewer repositories<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: convert from HG to git<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as Bitbucket will delete all HG repositories<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I found an alternative I have tested for self hosting, and it is actually pretty good<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: even on that ll had to choose the wrong system ::)<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just as a means of keeping the old repositories with all the history intact<br />
<br>[11:22] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: https://i.gyazo.com/7cf8a13dae8cb2e0e58573f194e17d4f.png<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: jpeg2000, HG.. xml encoding :)<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you go to http://www.dayturn.com:5000 you can see it in action<br />
<br>[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so thats a baked texture Bill?<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are some 20 repositories loaded at the moment<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe... baked head. :)<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: Universal wearable can't be used on most opensim versions<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: LOL .. So like life<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: future version my block teleports to older versions, according to outfit<br />
<br>[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: huh?<br />
<br>[11:24] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: or suffer the BOOOOOOMM!<br />
<br>[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: am i reading that right?<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that's not good<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: no point sending a outfit that not only can cause regions troubles ( or even BOOMMM) and arrive broken for all users there<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: in past we did block tps to vars<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: nothing new<br />
<br>[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh that will go over well<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It could be seen as another reason for people to upgrade their grids from 0.8<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a pretty convoluted feature as it is at the moment ëvery video on YT trying to explain it is 40-60 minutes<br />
<br>[11:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: maybe better to consider a different version of Bom if it is not backwards compatible?<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well even on new code, ppl with older viewers will see as you see me and bill<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: or worse on more complex meshes<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: but that we aill not block<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: a issue similar to when meshes where introduced<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: dont forget we have osl code that picks up baked textures and can be applied to meshes anyway<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. Now I know how to identify if someone is using BoM.<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: wqe dont really need the viewer support though it looks nice<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: you mean npcs?<br />
<br>[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i have had a script to apply bakes on mesh for several years<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well i didn't look to npcs, but should be easy<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: its nothing new for opensim<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: Arielle its not just that<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: read about BoM for the next meeting ;)<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: it has pros and cons, like eveything<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i have, it is a convoluted workflow meant for protection in s/l<br />
<br>[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have the new BoM viewer. I'll be using it after this meeting.<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: but its not just to put a baked texture on a prim<br />
<br>[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly Arielle<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not that we don't need to protect content creators in opensim<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well it also can reduce the number of downloads needed<br />
<br>[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: can<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit Umarov: see ppl dividing some like it, some don't<br />
<br>[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but more an incentive to not create avatars with 5 geografted layers<br />
<br>[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well Nani and Hyacinth also put a server side BoM in their version that doesnt need special viewers<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: but most agree most avatars will be a bit lighter with it<br />
<br>[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: https://lookits.me/hy/index.php/nanisim/<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: we are talking about this feature viewers may have now<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: not in opensim and Gavin is saying it wont be easy<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and you are saying it will break backward compatibility<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: basic BoM on opensim is very easy opensim side<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: to the point of having to block tp's<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: yes it will<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: it's cost of improvements<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i suspect it will not fly<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you want to be able to send the correct outfit/mesh to everyone in the scene regardless of old or new viewer it is tricky<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you just break all old behaior, it is significantly easier<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: will not happen gavin.Hird<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: at least so many older sim versions<br />
<br>[11:35] Sheera Khan: too bad - my old laptop still has glibc2.26 and can't run the BoM-viewer :-(<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: hardcoded for 6 baked meshs and 32 max<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: they kept the name, unlike some ugly ppl<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov looks to bill<br />
<br>[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Bill could take that baked texture and just apply it to his mesh and its done. Why does it need anything more?<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: Arielle not the same<br />
<br>[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: in what way?<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I can't run the BoM viewer either as I don't have the required glibc library.<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: you can take ONE mesh copy<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: it will look different on you than it will look on me<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: the same mesh...<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: according to the rest of wearables<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well yes, you have a male mesh body and me female<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hopefully<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think it is problematic that when SL releases a feature, we just jump on it as if it was the end of the world if not supported immediately<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: my mesh exactly the same Bill is wearing<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL has a unified environment where changes are relatively easy to enforce<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: and on a fs 6.3.1 we do look very dif<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in opensim nothing can be enforced<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: in fact with this simple avatar, as we did look without the mesh :)<br />
<br>[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: In SL viewer updates are downloaded automatically. Not so with OpenSim viewers.<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: by the way viewer version tags will be gone<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and they only have one server instance were all the backend is running the same<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: far from so in opensim<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes but still supposed to be a way to tell what version of viewer you have<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, no tags at all or just for releases?<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: read or heard about that<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: andrew those tags over avatars with dif colours acording to viewer version<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: ( you did vote that lol )<br />
<br>[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. I thought you meant tags in the source tree.<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: well those also.. they where killing git<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: now only on a release point<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I don't recall a vote on that topic. Not that I care what other people are using for viewer. unless they need help with something.<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Ubit.<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: gezz what a pain when i did restored some 30000 of those<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: spent an afternoon deleting them again<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile git almost useless :)<br />
<br>[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so is there a place to download the BoM FS viewer?<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember the problem with the tags in the source code for the main OpenSim code. Don't know why someone felt the need to tag every single commit.<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: a non official version yes arielle.Popstar<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: its in front of your eyes :p<br />
<br>[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i use unnofficial versions all the time :)<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I might try compiling the source myself to see if that avoids the library version problem.<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: it also has plugh map search thing<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: according to Bill :)<br />
<br>[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: looks at her drink for a viewer download link<br />
<br>[11:46] Bill Blight: yes and fixed the "not found" box that was popping up randomly when you searched and it only found one<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: now full BoM suport ( the one that will cause blocked tps etc ) in still working on it region side<br />
<br>[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: where in front of my eyes Ubit.Umarov?<br />
<br>[11:47] Bill Blight: Do seriously mean you can't see the avatar model standing at the center bar with the floating text to download the viewer<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and viewers will need a few changes<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: ( they also can't send any BoM things to older regions (<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I noticed it the moment I arrived.<br />
<br>[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: cool<br />
<br>[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ty<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: by full BoM i mean having the universal wearable and the baked textures it controls<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: We are down to 12 minutes before the top of the hour. Does someone have another question or topic for todays meeting?<br />
<br>[11:49] Bill Blight: Yes I compiled the linux version on ubuntu 18 because well ... Nobody should be very far behind that ... :P<br />
<br>[11:49] Kayaker Magic: LOL, I like the lack of warranty notice!<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, so always says those who like to stay right on top of the latest releases. :)<br />
<br>[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: any tutorials for building compiling FS in windows?<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill Blight: Ubuntu 19 is getting ready to come out<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: so yeah<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: Nearsighted<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: people<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: :P<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_compiling_firestorm<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: do not forget the war and peace part<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I know Mint 19.1 has been release. I'm still on 18.3 but I do have 19 installed in a separate partition. I just haven't tried it out. I'm not sure about the change in how package management is now being done with this time something or other thing that was introduced.<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i recall you saying you had a lot of trouble with their instructions Bill<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder how much they messed up Linux this time.<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: Had trouble with the Singu build<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: FS was no problem<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: It can take a bit of work in order to be able to build a viewer.<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: I gave up on compiling Singu<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thought andrew managed sing<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: pretty sure Hyacinth has too<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I had tried and given up building a viewer several times until some time later when I tried again it finally compiled. I used the instructions on the Sing site.<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but you the only one i heard of that did FS<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Singularity with the first viewer I managed to compile. I have since compiled Firestorm. The version of FS I'm currently running is one I compiled.<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a difference in compiling a repository that already is building and release ready, and to maintain and progress it over time<br />
<br>[11:54] Bill Blight: big diff<br />
<br>[11:56] Bill Blight: I only compiled it on Ubuntu 18 because I was told you couldn't<br />
<br>[11:56] Bill Blight: LOL<br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: i managed to comp a singu version.. then a alch version and recently fs one<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: not all at same time :)<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: now i can only comp fs :)<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Once you can compile one viewer you can probably compile many others. The initial problem is getting all the dependencies in place.<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( and without sound etc.. i don't bother getting the needed libs for it )<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: not really andrew<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: all different<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: dif dependencies, dif autobuild tools etc<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is quite a big diffferenve between the viewer in the build procedures and requirements<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: diff libs<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: all dif<br />
<br>[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I couldn't compile any viewer until one day I could do Sing. Once I could do Sing I was able to do FS.<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: i never managed to compile kokua<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: kokua for SL?<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ahh and dif VS versions<br />
<br>[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: You mean there are some viewers using same build systems?<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just different versions of insanity<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: different versions of what may seem more or less identical<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't use VS to do builds.<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not meant to build in VS<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: duhh tou still need each version tools<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: if you use the ide or not, just a final detail<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus you have different OS versions as well<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: macOS versions cannot be built on anything but Mac hardware<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: i really only want to look to sources using the ide :)<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: if compiles or not, its a detail<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: no plans on making viewer code changes<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and Singu use an ancient version of Xcode<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I can't build it<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, That would depend on if a person was cross-compiling or was running a good emulator on non Mac hardware.<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it cannot be cross compiled<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: guess a win only viewer could kill all that cmake crap<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it MUST be compiled with Xcode<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd like to see a viewer using something like cmake. That would be preferable to the build system I see in Sing and FS.<br />
<br>[12:03] Bill Blight: FS uses cmake<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn and SL, Kokua all use cmake<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: andrew they use cmake :)<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is a complete mess<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I mostly remember the days when it was whatever SL had been using which was some strange beast of a way to build code.<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't care whether it uses cmake or autofoo. They are both easy to use for compiling.<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it use autobuild to generate cmake code, for a VS pr Xcode project<br />
<br>[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on Windows you install cygwin and build the VS project thre<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: not really<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: it used the cmake from it<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: but controled by vs compilers<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on macOS you use Xcodebuild to build the project configured via autobuild -> cmake<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: wel or something like that<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: i do compile fs inside the ide now<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not properly packaged for distribution then<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can build it in VS for testing<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: and why would i want that? :)<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you are in the business of distributing viewer to actual users, you want to do that<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: sure, but im not<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: remember that when when you hand out unofficial viewers<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: Bill did managed to mk full packages :)<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when nobody is ready to maintain for you?<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: well hand out and maintain are unrelated things<br />
<br>[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There is one line on the FS repository: ATTN Viewer developers: Please do not add our orignal, pre-release code to other viewer before we release it ourselves<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: totally unrelated :p<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and FS has not released what is over there in the corner<br />
<br>[12:11] Bill Blight: But technically , if they post it to their LGPL repository they can't stop anybody from releasing it<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure not except ban you<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: actually FS can ask.. not impose anything<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: right<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: but academic discussion<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is the same with LL code<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I tried to build FS but it says I need to set LL_BUILD first.<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: this are just test things for a limited audience<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we don't release it unless in a release viewer<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: at least here<br />
<br>[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so shouldnt tell any FS viewers Opensim has a FS Opensim viewer?<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: no Arielle.Popstar<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: it is just a test thing,<br />
<br>[12:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but we should be allowed a tester viewer<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS has an opensim viewer released 4 months ago<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: at least opensim offical position<br />
<br>[12:13] Bill Blight: did you follow the instructions Andrew and download and set the build variables<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: for us opensim FS means Firestorm official releases of course<br />
<br>[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: their release viewer is also 4 months old<br />
<br>[12:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: they have beta testers<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: that does not mean we can't pre test their code<br />
<br>[12:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: maybe i should apply<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so we might test developer builds<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: even a few test changes to submit to them<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but we should not use their code to distribute<br />
<br>[12:15] Bill Blight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Lesser_General_Public_License<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: but no one can forbid others from forking FS, remaning it, fixing the credentials etc..<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure<br />
<br>[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I was just going through what it said in the README file for Linux.<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but that is a relatively big job<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: ie other name, proper mention to fs on credentials etc<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: even a namechange is<br />
<br>[12:15] Bill Blight: follow the website<br />
<br>[12:15] Bill Blight: not he readme<br />
<br>[12:16] Bill Blight: the site is updated<br />
<br>[12:16] Bill Blight: readme not so much I think<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: thats what all TPVs did from the SL source :)<br />
<br>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: What? The readme in the source tree is out of date? Shocking. ;)<br />
<br>[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
<br>[12:16] Bill Blight: https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_compiling_firestorm<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they did Ubit, but there are no TPV viewer that are exactly LL code<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have a go at that another time. After this meeting I need to get back to finishing off a couple of routines for some paid work.<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: just saying that anyone can do the same starting on any tpv<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: in fact some out there derived from other tpv source<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the chain for dayturn is kokua and imprudence<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: like derived from alch etc<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: imprudence was largely built with the snowglobe LL code, but not completely<br />
<br>[12:18] Bill Blight: the ones here are not EXACTLY FS code, they have patches that are not in FS and will be on Github later today unless i break it<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: ( ok will be on git next week bc Bill will break it )<br />
<br>[12:18] Bill Blight: ^^^^ What he said<br />
<br>[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: well for me, this are just previews of BoM support<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: thanks Bill for making them<br />
<br>[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: We are well past the hour mark. Any other last minute items before we wrap up todays gathering?<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: since it has been impossible to talk with any fs dev in last weeks<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am going to test a new windows build in a few once it has compiled<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: and its fs bc i don't see any other viewer with it<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: tpv i mean<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: and as i said that code as is can't be deployed for all opensim usage<br />
<br>[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, the instructions on the website result in a different message that the AUTOBUILD_VARIABLES_FILE is not set.<br />
<br>[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure if that is progress or not. :)<br />
<br>[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL has a repository of their variables<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: unless universal wearable is fully blocked for all opensim versions that will not tell viewer they do suport it<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: that will be most likely a flag on a lludp packet<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: region handshake packet, Protocol field bit 63 i guess<br />
<br>[12:24] Bill Blight: https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_compiling_firestorm_alexivy_ubuntu_16<br />
<br>[12:24] Bill Blight: that i the one you should be using<br />
<br>[12:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so it will block tp to any region older then that commit?<br />
<br>[12:24] Bill Blight: cd ~/src/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl<br />
<br>source ../fs-build-variables/convenience Release<br />
<br>export AUTOBUILD_VARIABLES_FILE=$HOME/src/fs-build-variables/variables<br />
<br>[12:25] Bill Blight: yada yada yada<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: arielle new opensim code with suport for the universal wearable will forbid tps of ppl wearing to older regions<br />
<br>[12:26] Bill Blight: It could crash the destination region if it allowed it<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br>[12:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: maybe should branch it then?<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: and even if they didn't, they will be a mess as seen by others<br />
<br>[12:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: or fork?<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: no branch no fork<br />
<br>[12:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no use then<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: you just change the outfit and you can tp<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: as you should change outfits bf HG<br />
<br>[12:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh so it is only if one is using a BoM?<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: ppl should use simpler outfits on HG<br />
<br>[12:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: pfft<br />
<br>[12:28] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Don't you think that would justify a jump in the minor version from 0.9.1 to 0.9.2?<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: yes arielle wearing the breaking universal wearable that adds 5 more baked textures<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: from 26 to 45 total<br />
<br>[12:28] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Just as an indicator where the change happened?<br />
<br>[12:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: good point Sheera<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: my local code is current a total mess :)<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: well it is working<br />
<br>[12:29] Ubit Umarov: but also tring to clean up the appearence code, bakes handling etc<br />
<br>[12:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so maybe do a pre release before adding that bom<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: bet for a while master will have a few issues on that :)<br />
<br>[12:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: its a pretty major change<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: well no new issue<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: first time i did add physics layer suport, i did kill a main avination region on a tp :)<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: with a lot of ppl on it :)<br />
<br>[12:32] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I guess that was totally worth it ;-)<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: today we do send that to older regions, but will arrive broken<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: but no one really notices..<br />
<br>[12:34] Ubit Umarov: about how good or bad BoM is<br />
<br>[12:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so will you consider making this a release version?<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: seem ppl on both sides at sl blogs<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: it does save alpha layers etc<br />
<br>[12:35] Ubit Umarov: hanging some look is change wearing another weable<br />
<br>[12:36] Ubit Umarov: no need for scripts etc<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: well lets see<br />
<br>[12:37] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: So it can be useful to reduce the load on viewers - and that's great stuff :-)<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: yeap that was a drive reason<br />
<br>[12:37] Ubit Umarov: they claim that mesh avatars need to have less meshes<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: seems some have 100 or more layers of meshes<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: gezzz<br />
<br>[12:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: all it does is lessen the need for multiple layers<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: "all"<br />
<br>[12:38] Ubit Umarov: lol<br />
<br>[12:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: most meshes have no more then 3 anyway<br />
<br>[12:38] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: that in itself is a reason to do it<br />
<br>[12:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: not really<br />
<br>[12:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: typical complexity nowadays is under a 100k<br />
<br>[12:39] Ubit Umarov: says the one always complained avatars take time to load :p<br />
<br>[12:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats not because of complexity<br />
<br>[12:39] Ubit Umarov: oh no?<br />
<br>[12:39] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: The viewer has to render significantly less - especially if the sim has a lot of visitors<br />
<br>[12:39] Ubit Umarov: complexity is what ??<br />
<br>[12:39] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[12:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: not much of anything which is why s/l is relooking at the measurement<br />
<br>[12:40] Ubit Umarov: gezz my basic is 1424 complexity<br />
<br>[12:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: a lot of it makes no sense<br />
<br>[12:40] Ubit Umarov: errr why do i have a tatoo ??<br />
<br>[12:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well then put better system avatars in<br />
<br>[12:41] Ubit Umarov: hmm ai gave it to me<br />
<br>[12:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: then no need for external mesh avatars<br />
<br>[12:41] Ubit Umarov: yeah viewers should do that<br />
<br>[12:41] Ubit Umarov: ll should had done that<br />
<br>[12:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you should do that as you have the ability now to compile and release a viewer<br />
<br>[12:42] Ubit Umarov: yeah if you like a viewer without sound and install package :p<br />
<br>[12:42] Ubit Umarov: ( my compiled one )<br />
<br>[12:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Bill can do it<br />
<br>[12:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: or teach you how<br />
<br>[12:43] Ubit Umarov: yeah but we are not viewer devs<br />
<br>[12:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: then there is no need for BoM is there<br />
<br>[12:43] Ubit Umarov: this and avatar code is far from the simpler kind of code<br />
<br>[12:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: we have the best then because we have a decent lightweight avatar mesh<br />
<br>[12:43] Ubit Umarov: most tpvs don't even touch it<br />
<br>[12:44] Ubit Umarov: or most tpvs devs<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-08-27Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-272019-09-03T20:39:52Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[10:56] Ubit Umarov: hi<br />
<br />[10:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ubit<br />
<br />[10:57] Ubit Umarov: odd yr face and head white, rest ok<br />
<br />[10:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am playing with BOM<br />
<br />[10:57] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, white head for me also<br />
<br />[10:57] Bill Blight: ditto<br />
<br />[10:57] Bill Blight: mesh body<br />
<br />[10:57] Kayaker Magic: I'm wearing Roth, any problems with me?<br />
<br />[10:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: BOm built body<br />
<br />[10:58] Bill Blight: nope<br />
<br />[10:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nope<br />
<br />[10:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was just wearing the<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: BOM demo avatar<br />
<br />[10:58] Ubit Umarov: its baked textures , HG in this case<br />
<br />[10:58] Ubit Umarov: the _90 ?<br />
<br />[10:58] Kayaker Magic: Looking bettr now Gavin<br />
<br />[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I hope, hehe<br />
<br />[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes the _90<br />
<br />[10:59] Ubit Umarov: so dayturn doing BoM now?<br />
<br />[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I took a few commits which increased the size of the avatar baked textures to 1024 and the avatar looked really interesting<br />
<br />[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was jut pulling your legs<br />
<br />[11:00] Ubit Umarov: :p<br />
<br />[11:00] Ubit Umarov: yeah even faster rez times<br />
<br />[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it might be possible to get it working somehow<br />
<br />[11:01] Kayaker Magic: The error I get HGing to my OSGrid land from Kitely is "Connection between viewet and destination region could not be established"<br />
<br />[11:01] Ubit Umarov: and not sure how those changes will work with olde viewers<br />
<br />[11:01] Ubit Umarov: SL as no issue with older viewers<br />
<br />[11:01] Gavin.Hird<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: @grid.xmir.org:8002: the tricky bit is to get Robust to send the old 512 size to virwer that don't support 1024<br />
<br />[11:01] Ubit Umarov: thats not robust business<br />
<br />[11:01] Ubit Umarov: not even regions<br />
<br />[11:02] Ubit Umarov: textures are just data<br />
<br />[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeas and if you use to 1024 textures on a viewer that does not support it half the avatar is transparent<br />
<br />[11:02] Ubit Umarov: hope old viewers manage that<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: ahh thats cool<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: (not)<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: yeah that is problem SL does not hav<br />
<br />[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: eyes and the avatar hear was visible on the right side<br />
<br />[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hair*<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: they can just forbid older viewers at anytime<br />
<br />[11:03] Ubit Umarov: as soon their own viewer works..<br />
<br />[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Slow day today. No Andrew yet.<br />
<br />[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose there is a new cap so the server which does the baking can send the right textures to viewers that don't support it<br />
<br />[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Here is a<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: question: A<br />
<br />[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ***************************************************<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: 11:05] Kayaker Magic: Here is a question: Anybody have experience running OpenSim on a Raspberry Pi?<br />
<br />[11:05] Ubit Umarov: don't think baking servers are per user<br />
<br />[11:05] Ubit Umarov: i mean per viewing user<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kayaker<br />
<br />[11:06] Bill Blight: really no diff than running it on linux Kayaker, just fewer resources<br />
<br />[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I got a new Pi 4 with 4GB memory. Was able to compile it. Still setting up to reach it on my LAN<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?forums/running-opensim-on-raspberry-pi.16/<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a forum about it<br />
<br />[11:06] Ubit Umarov: long ago Nebdon also had regions on PI<br />
<br />[11:06] Ubit Umarov: Nebadon<br />
<br />[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I've been running them for 4 months now<br />
<br />[11:07] Ubit Umarov: he did not had 4G back then<br />
<br />[11:07] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can tp to grid.org:8002:Dayturn running on a Pi 4B<br />
<br />[11:07] Kayaker Magic: The Pi 4<br />
<br />[11:59] Ubit Umarov: is a pretty good replacement for a desktop, how about running the Viewer on it Gavin?<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are 9 other regions running on another<br />
<br />[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not chance of getting the viewer running on it<br />
<br />[11:07] Ubit Umarov: ( gezz some ppl is just crazy... a viewer on a pi )<br />
<br />[11:08] Kayaker Magic: LOL<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it only has OpenGL ES<br />
<br />[11:08] Ubit Umarov: oops i said that ?<br />
<br />[11:08] Ubit Umarov: ;)<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: will not compile<br />
<br />[11:08] Bill Blight: Andrew's cats must have reminded him<br />
<br />[11:08] Kayaker Magic: I figured, but what fits in an ARM amazes me!<br />
<br />[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. I'm here, sort of.<br />
<br />[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: supposedly it has OpenGL 2.1 wihc is sufficient to build the viewer, but currently very buggy<br />
<br />[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew<br />
<br />[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a plumber here at the house so you can talk amongst yourselves for a bit. I should be here fully soon.<br />
<br />[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: So there are ARM binaries there too to replace in bin<br />
<br />[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in the Resources section of the forum<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: you will also need arm bins from some opensim parts like ode or bullet etc<br />
<br />[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is there in the forum Ubit<br />
<br />[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just said that<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: ( the things on bin/lib64 or 32 (<br />
<br />[11:12] Ubit Umarov: oops<br />
<br />[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/categories/raspberry-pi.4/<br />
<br />[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Pi only runs 32-bit<br />
<br />[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so we can forget about 64-bit libs<br />
<br />[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are config files to replace in bin to point to the correct libs<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it runs pretty well on mono 6.00.319<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with ubode<br />
<br />[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bullet does not work<br />
<br />[11:19] Bill Blight: Bullet? What is this bullet you speak of? .. hehe<br />
<br />[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: beats me<br />
<br />[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it both builds and collides fine and so on, but there is some weirdness when rezzing from inventory and there are limits for how much time I want to spend on figuring it out<br />
<br />[11:22] Bill Blight: yeah I have no desire to mesh with a PI, I do own one, but never really done anything with it ... Everytime I start to mess with it I realize I have a SFF x86 machine that I can use that will not make me throw things ... LOL<br />
<br />[11:22] Bill Blight: mesh = mess<br />
<br />[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it runs the latest debian buster<br />
<br />[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so nothing special there<br />
<br />[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the filesystem leaves a lot to be desired in that you cannot boot from USB in the model 4 machines<br />
<br />[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they will update the firmware is the promize<br />
<br />[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Arielle<br />
<br />[11:26] Arielle Popstar: hey Gavin<br />
<br />[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just run them headless Bill<br />
<br />[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back. The plumber has left.<br />
<br />[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wb<br />
<br />[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Did you get your PI 4 yet Andrew?<br />
<br />[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: No, not yet. Still wondering if I should get one or not. I'm still leaning towards getting one. I could use it on the workbench to emulate another machine.<br />
<br />[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br />[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I mean, who are you kidding, just get one :-))<br />
<br />[11:31] Kayaker Magic: I just got one, we were talking about running OpenSim on it.<br />
<br />[11:31] Arielle Popstar: think one could put a sewrver on an old android tv box?<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a sewer?<br />
<br />[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I know. I have all the items on a wish list at a local company here in Canada. I just have to go through the list and click Add to Cart. About $200 worth of stuff.<br />
<br />[11:32] Arielle Popstar: server<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: android<br />
<br />[11:32] Arielle Popstar: yes<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it runs mono<br />
<br />[11:32] Arielle Popstar: android Kodi box<br />
<br />[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe<br />
<br />[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how much memory and processor has it got?<br />
<br />[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Latest Pi 4 has 4 cores and up to 4GB memory<br />
<br />[11:34] Arielle Popstar: quad processor and i think 2 gb of ram<br />
<br />[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: opensim ran fine on a 1GB Pi 3B+<br />
<br />[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: give it a shot<br />
<br />[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: The Pi 4 is available in 1GB, 2GB, and 4GB models. 2GB is about $53Cdn and the 4GB is about $74Cdn.<br />
<br />[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you probalby have to compile a few libs<br />
<br />[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, nebadon has run OS on a Pi 2.<br />
<br />[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he did<br />
<br />[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just saw an article about someone else trying the same on a model 3 and it failed<br />
<br />[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 3B+ runs a 512 VAR comfortably<br />
<br />[11:38] Arielle Popstar: whats those changes on the https and udp ?<br />
<br />[11:39] Arielle Popstar: Ubit<br />
<br />[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I would expect that libOMV would need to be rebuilt.<br />
<br />[11:40] Ubit Umarov: what changes on https?<br />
<br />[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br />[11:40] Arielle Popstar: reduce even more the number of objects per UDP pac<br />
<br />[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have a zip with the libs you can download<br />
<br />[11:40] Arielle Popstar: minor change on httpserver dll<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: yeah just tunning a parameter<br />
<br />[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( and not https related )<br />
<br />[11:41] Arielle Popstar: noticing Osgrid is slow the past while<br />
<br />[11:42] Ubit Umarov: no idea<br />
<br />[11:42] Arielle Popstar: 6-7 avatars in a sime and takes 3-4 minutes to load their mesh bodies<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lol<br />
<br />[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sorry about laughing, but what do you expect?<br />
<br />[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I have someone running a region connected to osgrid and can't figure out why they can't get more than 30k prims.<br />
<br />[11:43] Ubit Umarov: well those changes are not on osg release still<br />
<br />[11:43] Arielle Popstar: less than a minute<br />
<br />[11:43] Ubit Umarov: so no relation<br />
<br />[11:43] Arielle Popstar: well in dll's you can make changes that no one can see right?<br />
<br />[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do you compare to SL?<br />
<br />[11:43] Arielle Popstar: i compare to opensim<br />
<br />[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: those dlls sources are also on public repos<br />
<br />[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cause SL is a drag to get anything loaded these days<br />
<br />[11:44] Ubit Umarov: so stop those stupic inssinuations<br />
<br />[11:44] Arielle Popstar: yes its pretty flaky there<br />
<br />[11:45] Arielle Popstar: not stupid. It is a concern some have brought up that changes in the dll's make it difficult to bug check<br />
<br />[11:45] Arielle Popstar: when the documentation is not overly specific<br />
<br />[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: such as Melanie's console dump, haha<br />
<br />[11:46] Arielle Popstar: ^^<br />
<br />[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is like WTF - absolutely nothign on what it does or why or how it will be used<br />
<br />[11:49] Ubit Umarov: it was mainly code rearrange<br />
<br />[11:49] Kayaker Magic: Another issue: While playing with Warp3D, friend of mine discovered an isssue with osGetRegionMapTextue, submitted mantis 8583 about it.<br />
<br />[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then tell us that and why<br />
<br />[11:49] Kayaker Magic: Apparently if you let Warp3D run at startup, osGetRegionMapTextue works fine.<br />
<br />[11:49] Kayaker Magic: If you disable it there, even if you generate maps later, osGetRegionMapTextue does not work.<br />
<br />[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I eamn some LL commits are like a novel, but there is a point in btween<br />
<br />[12:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mean*<br />
<br />[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Is it possible that there could be more than one entry in the database for a region or for land parcels that would make OS get confused as to the maximum number of prims allowed?<br />
<br />[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll take it from the silence that no one here knows. I'll have Dan check the osgrid database for that situation as it is the only other reason I can think of for why setting MaxPrims to 45000 has the region still limited to only 30000.<br />
<br />[11:57] Arielle Popstar hasnt a clue<br />
<br />[11:58] Bill Blight: The max could be reduced by the "object bonus" on the region tab being set less than 1<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen a case in the past where there were multiple records for a region in the land table.<br />
<br />[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, hm... worth checking just in case.<br />
<br />[11:58] Arielle Popstar: well time for the S/L dev meeting. Hopefully that will be more informative :)<br />
<br />[11:59] Kayaker Magic: Noon here in CA! I have to run! Talk to you guys next week!<br />
<br />[11:59] Arielle Popstar: tootles<br />
<br />[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Btw, FS has announced that they have split the viewer in to two. One is SL specific and the other is just for OS. It will be interesting to see what this will mean for OpenSim user.<br />
<br />[12:00] Bill Blight: yeah a month ago .. :P<br />
<br />[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bye Kayaker and Arielle.<br />
<br />[12:00] Bill Blight: We actually talked about it at the meeting then .. LOL<br />
<br />[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone reposted it to a mailing list within the past week.<br />
<br />[12:03] Ubit Umarov: yeah it seems we have 2 storage places for the map asset<br />
<br />[12:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: https://www.firestormviewer.org/second-life-opensim-are-no-longer-joined-at-the-hip/<br />
<br />[12:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: must go -- bye all<br />
<br />[12:04] Ubit Umarov: err no not really<br />
<br />[12:05] Bill Blight: one is for old v1 viewers right?<br />
<br />[12:08] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br />[12:08] Ubit Umarov: and a asset<br />
<br />[12:08] Ubit Umarov: think seen the issue<br />
<br />[12:09] Ubit Umarov: its done etc we just dont update the region info on grid<br />
<br />[12:09] Ubit Umarov: thats ins only done at login<br />
<br />[12:09] Ubit Umarov: and that ossl does ask grid<br />
<br />[12:09] Bill Blight: That is what I was just going to ask ... LOL<br />
<br />[12:11] Bill Blight: the v2 maps are not posted to the DB , only to the maptiles right?<br />
<br />[12:12] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br />[12:13] Ubit Umarov: well don't even see a API to tell grid the map changed<br />
<br />[12:13] Ubit Umarov: only register<br />
<br />[12:13] Ubit Umarov: v1 map i mean<br />
<br />[12:13] Bill Blight: yeah<br />
<br />[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to wrap things up as there are just the three of us left.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-09-03T20:39:02Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-08-20Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-202019-08-20T19:30:55Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[10:46] Sheera Khan: Did you too have probs with rezzing the stuff here? <br>[10:46] Ubit Umarov: not for a long time <br>[10:46] Ubit Umarov: and im with suicidal 3000kbps <b..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[10:46] Sheera Khan: Did you too have probs with rezzing the stuff here?<br />
<br>[10:46] Ubit Umarov: not for a long time<br />
<br>[10:46] Ubit Umarov: and im with suicidal 3000kbps<br />
<br>[10:46] Ubit Umarov: on viewer<br />
<br>[10:47] Sheera Khan: i have the same setting as Metro has quite a good connection<br />
<br>[10:48] Sheera Khan: and normally the stuff here rezzes in very fast<br />
<br>[10:49] Sheera Khan: just today I had to wait quite some time<br />
<br>[10:50] Ubit Umarov: we now use viewers object cache<br />
<br>[10:51] Ubit Umarov: that makes rez a lot faster, except when there is no info for the region<br />
<br>[10:51] Sheera Khan: hmmm, that should be quite fast for me as I'm running on a ssd only system<br />
<br>[10:52] Ubit Umarov: try relog here and compare with last time<br />
<br>[10:52] Sheera Khan: brb<br />
<br>[10:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: any better ?<br />
<br>[10:53] Sheera Khan: jupp, much faster than before :-)<br />
<br>[10:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[10:55] Sheera Khan: do we have to activate that in a setting or is it a new feature of the new code?<br />
<br>[10:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: auto<br />
<br>[10:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well it does have options.. but on by default if i remember :)<br />
<br>[10:55] Sheera Khan: that sounds reasonable ;-)<br />
<br>[10:56] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its a old thing on viewers, we had never cared about<br />
<br>[10:56] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: till a few months ago when i did review lludp sending<br />
<br>[10:57] Sheera Khan: hehehe, sometimes one finds a gem in old stuff?<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i did speedup code, made better reuse of memory and bandwith<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: then did wake up that missing prims ghost<br />
<br>[10:57] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so i also seen them<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: solution was to downgrade udp efficience<br />
<br>[10:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: send less information per packet, less than it could take<br />
<br>[10:59] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: bf that, we just had to reduce the viewer bandwith to 500kbps or less<br />
<br>[11:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well with that reduction on udp usage efficience im now here with that suicidal 3000kbps and don't notice any missing prims or terrain patchs<br />
<br>[11:01] Sheera Khan: I'd have guessed that the higher level protocols would be responsible for lost packets, whether to ignore them or to force a resend<br />
<br>[11:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so all points to a viewer side issue.. not new<br />
<br>[11:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its not lost packets<br />
<br>[11:02] Sheera Khan: I'm using full speed setting in network since quite some time... never had serious trouble with that<br />
<br>[11:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: some of the prims are on the viewer.. just not rez<br />
<br>[11:02] Sheera Khan: but then, I'm on a 100MBit/s download connection<br />
<br>[11:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: some you click on their area and they show up<br />
<br>[11:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: others never show up :)<br />
<br>[11:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: fs also had that with attachments<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so guess viewers do get lost when we send things a bit faster<br />
<br>[11:04] Sheera Khan: I always thought the 500 kBit/s rule was there bc of possible packet loss at higher rates<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah. but seems viewers also lose prims they did got and terrain<br />
<br>[11:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well as i said the only "solution" i got was to reduce the rate of sending<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: less information per udp packet<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: thx for that pgsql fix, i forgot to thank on the commit message<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no worries<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bitbucket announced today that they will completely remove support for Mercurial in a year<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so that will be REALLY interesting<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: oh?<br />
<br>[11:08] Sheera Khan: Hi Leighton :-)<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wasn't HG the future replacement of git ?<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all viewer repositories must be converted to git<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or hosted elsewhere<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well guess not that hard<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to convert the repositories?<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: super hard<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: oh ??<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ahh well all history etc etc of course<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i was only thinking about the files :)<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the files are no problem<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the history....<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: forgetting when i did mess up our git and had to run call mel for help :)<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or when by mistake i did restore 30000 Tags<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: took HOURS to delete them again :)<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: with them git was just dead in water.. 2 slow<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in past ppl did add one tag per commit<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess I have to derender that barmaid again<br />
<br>[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: do we have server dis baking?<br />
<br>[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: server side<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: always see inventory errors on avatar items, no idea why<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no we do not have SSA<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh i thought we did<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: did we not have it before?<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: thats another idea i never understud<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh?<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: unless they plan to have SL only on tablets and old phones<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is baked on the region, but the textures are sent to Robust where they can be retrieved for reuse<br />
<br>[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: new phones and tablets run good with s/l<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no it is not baked on region here<br />
<br>[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well except master as it crashes Lumiya<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viewers do the bake as before<br />
<br>[11:17] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Lumiya doesn have a rebake in the latest version<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: why waste servers cpu with twisted image processing when viewers can even have gpu help on that??<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I agree Ubit and I meant the viewer does the baking<br />
<br>[11:17] Sheera Khan: bc of copyright issues in SL ... everyone could salvage the individual textures from the cache before<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and they can't now?? :P<br />
<br>[11:18] Sheera Khan: now you only get a combined textue with everything mixed in<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not sure about that<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: like a baked texture?<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and that's just a permissions issue<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: just??<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: just not send base avatar textures except owner<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in fact SSA needs to filter that also<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so.. nahh copyright is not a issue<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not that bake is only done by the avatar viewer<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not others<br />
<br>[11:20] Sheera Khan: maybe I should have said content theft...<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the only dif is who makes the images combination.. avatar viewer or region...<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: now the protocol to handle bakes is a bit twisted..<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: guess ll messed it up and just jumped way<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: don't know lumiya issues :(<br />
<br>[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it assumes SSB'<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well not much i can do if they lose opensim support..<br />
<br>[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i could have sworn we had it or were supposed to get it<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no never on plans..<br />
<br>[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well maybe opensim should do its part in supporeting the viewers that work with it<br />
<br>[11:24] Sheera Khan: what was xbakes then?<br />
<br>[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hmm maybe was before your time then Ubit\<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: What have I missed?<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: xbakes is only bakes storage and distribution<br />
<br>[11:25] Sheera Khan: I thought that was supposed to be the analogon of ssb<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: bakes have own storage grid side IE xbakes<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it achieves same end result<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: there are more differences, not related to bakes on SSA<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: like handling of visual parameters..<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: gavin did u looked to that baked meshes thing ll is working on ?<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: sounds like 99.99% viewer side thing<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: at avination we did had test system that did that<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I looked at it<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we had avatar bakes on mesh avatars on that test platform<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that was all<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)9<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it requires a lot of changes backend as far as I can see<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well viewer side guess its a "funny" thing :)<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: just another hack :)<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: from what i seen server side is at most to add a few textures with fixed uuids to dbs<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seen they now suport a lot more textures per avatar also?<br />
<br>[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in any case it is way down my list - sorry :-))<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well guess down on all viewers list<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but sounds a nice feature<br />
<br>[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats on the top of your list?<br />
<br>[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 64-bit viewer for Windows<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302 flüstert: and top of yours Ubit<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ?<br />
<br>[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: convert 7500 BOOL in the macOS viewer<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what about an ios viewer Gavin?<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: compete with LL :)<br />
<br>[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I wish, but you can't even think about it without having a metal renderer<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and the all the 7500 BOOLs must go<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only then can you start to use Apple libraries<br />
<br>[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: BOOLs?<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL has used a (now) nonstanrdard version of the boolean<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: btw kayker,, that Athena thing.. not sure but think there was a big talk about it in past..<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: def not a legit thing on opensim grids..<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or is it?<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whick class spectacularly with the BOOL in Objective-C<br />
<br>[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone. Sorry I'm late. Started doing something for a few minutes and I lost track of the time. :P<br />
<br>[11:37] Kayaker Magic: Yeah Andrew the same thing happened to me!<br />
<br>[11:37] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: easily done Andrew<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: good your cat was looking to irc :p<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and since all the Apple libs that work with C++ is basically written in Objective-C they cannot be used till this class is resolved<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Leighton, definitely.<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: (<Ubit> plugh's cat.. remember him about meeting)<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: clash*<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, yes it was. ;)<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: :)<br />
<br>[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats not a legit thing<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and a hush falls over the crowd<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that Athena thing ?<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what about it?<br />
<br>[11:41] Kayaker Magic: I have been doing some testing of the EOC error messages from Warp3d:<br />
<br>[11:41] Kayaker Magic: It only happens when Warp3D is making the map, using CSJ2K and only on certain textures.<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: its technically an orphaned mesh<br />
<br>[11:41] Kayaker Magic: I did binary chopping to narrow it down to one texture.<br />
<br>[11:42] Kayaker Magic: I can give Ubit an object that has that texture on it.<br />
<br>[11:42] Kayaker Magic: But it happens on lots of different textures on different OARs I have.<br />
<br>[11:43] Kayaker Magic: If I give Ubit a prim that has a texture that gets EOC in Warp3D, will it still do that when he copies it to another grid?<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: then why keep using CSJ2K on those regions<br />
<br>[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I certainly plan to never use it again. But I'm trying to help you track down those errors and log them properly.<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in fact i may remove CSJ2K<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( like i said when i find why it was there in first place and still is )<br />
<br>[11:45] Kayaker Magic: I wonder if these "bad" textures are a bug in CSj2K or if they may cause problems in OpenJPEG also and we just don't see them.<br />
<br>[11:46] Kayaker Magic: Another reason for not using CSJ2K is that Warp3D on my test region is about 10 times faster when I switch to OpenJPEG!<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we already spoke about that last week<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Just saying. I've become a fan of OpenJPEG<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: you are sure lumiya did remove opensim appearance code only doing sl SSA arielle.Popstar ?<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Has CSj2K been in OS from the start or was that added later to address some need?<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: andrew do git blame :p<br />
<br>[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: in version 3.4.2 there is no rebake button<br />
<br>[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: 3.4.1 did i believe<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well even last viewers to sl have rebake<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It can be hard to tell item history as some of that was lost, or made harder to access, around the time of switching from 076 to 080, IIRC.<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and button does not mean much about low level<br />
<br>[11:51] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so xbakes has to be enabled on a region for ssb?<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no<br />
<br>[11:51] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: [XBakes]<br />
<br> ;# {URL} {} {Set URL for Baked texture service} {}<br />
<br> ;; Sets the URL for the baked texture ROBUST service.<br />
<br> ;; Disabled when unset.<br />
<br> ;; URL = ${Const|BaseURL}:${Const|PrivatePort}<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: xbakes HAS to be enable :)<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: except on standalones possible<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ?<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i'm confused<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: confused with what ?<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i said it has to be enabled and you said it HAS to be enabled<br />
<br>[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what are we debating then?<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: no idea lol<br />
<br>[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: that says to me that Opensim has SSB but you say it doesnt<br />
<br>[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: which is it?<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: as i said xbakes is a storage of last bakes, without is ppl need to rebake on all tps<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: .. is a shared storage.. i meant<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: on a TP the region checks if has valid baked textures on its cache, if not asks xbakes for them<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: only if not found or outdated, it askes viewer to rebake them all again<br />
<br>[11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok....<br />
<br>[11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and thats different from normal SSB how?<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: on SSB regions do the baking<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( or a central service, no idea )<br />
<br>[11:58] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so other than the initial bake, it works the same?<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: yeah more or less<br />
<br>[11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so for the sake of one server side bake you are of the opinion it would be too much for an opensim server to handle?<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: it something a bit heavy yes<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: with minor returns, if any<br />
<br>[12:00] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but it does do subsequent ssbakes?<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: ??<br />
<br>[12:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: if the xbakers is enabled<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: look.. if you tp to a new region, it will not have your bakes to send to all other avatars, right??<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: so it needs to get them from somewhere, with the minimal cost..<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: thats where xbakes does come in..<br />
<br>[12:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is that heavy on the server?<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: it has its load..<br />
<br>[12:03] Bill Blight: just for clarity this subject started talking about SSA, server side appearance, SSB, server side baking, is not the same thing<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: but a lot less than actually doing all lthe images processing<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: that is well done by viewers<br />
<br>[12:04] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats the difference Bill?<br />
<br>[12:05] Bill Blight: SSB is just baked textures , SSA is the whole shebang<br />
<br>[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok well guess its not important<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: not at the moment.. things seem to be working ok on that<br />
<br>[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL just sent out a message they will make a plan on how to migrate the repositories to Git<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: at least on viewers that keep proper opensim comp<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm thinking that SSA includes things like body shape that isn't part of SSB.<br />
<br>[12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: guess that list will get smaller and smaller<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: That is what I gathered, I assumed that people knew the difference between, textures and the rest of the appearance ...<br />
<br>[12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: any plans on taking advantage of the Opensim only viewer forks?<br />
<br>[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what do you mean Arielle?<br />
<br>[12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: shrugs, the parts that can be seen is all textures i would have thought<br />
<br>[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well as an example FS now has the Opensim viewer fork. Seems to me we could now get some opensim specific changes<br />
<br>[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats we couldn't before<br />
<br>[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which would be?<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: yeah but fs as no opensim devs<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: last change to that OS firestorm repo was 4 months ago, so they are not really jumping in to make changes<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have asked before, what opensim specific changes do you want?<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: for now in pratical terms they just stopped opensim suport in time<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: but lets see..<br />
<br>[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: has Opensim asked themn to make any changes?<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: only a few months ago they did look to issues that had the word "opensim" filled back in 2015<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: and where also SL issues<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: and the dev that did that was clear telling that will only due minimal fixes for opensim, not major changes<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I would think FS is unlikely to get OS specific features while there is still the version of FS for LL. The two versions would have to track each other to a certain extent.<br />
<br>[12:14] Bill Blight: The biggest advantage, is the fact that there is a repo that is not going to get SL changes, so it does not break using it in openism ..<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[12:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but neither will we get new features that s/l adopts<br />
<br>[12:15] Bill Blight: http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl-os/<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: well if it gets any changes at all, is something to be seen<br />
<br>[12:15] Bill Blight: yep<br />
<br>[12:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so in effect Opensim becomes stagnated?<br />
<br>[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: we are talking about ONE viewer<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are probably tons of improvements to existing functionality that will spill over to the opensim version<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: this region is running code to suport a change made by Singu<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ie the new estate access panel<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it does not work on regions that don't have it<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: ie one of the last ll change, that we got via singularity suport<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is useless in all old versions of opensim which most grids have<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: singu does work gavin.Hird<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: we have seen it here LOL<br />
<br>[12:17] Bill Blight: I can name 3 viewers off the top of my head that are directly supporting opensim that are getting development, Dayturn, Singularity and one called Polarity ..<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: we where testing it and Bill had forgotten to activate the new cap :)<br />
<br>[12:18] Bill Blight: cap schmap<br />
<br>[12:18] Bill Blight: :P<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tried singu in a region without the estate changes, and the estate panel was a complete mess<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: just with lludp we don't see who did a bad and when<br />
<br>[12:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so the new viewer is not compatible with old regions/<br />
<br>[12:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ?<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: ie while LL totally removed the lludp, Liru added glue to keep it working<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the build I tested failed, but it is very much work in progress that viewer at the moment<br />
<br>[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Sing development is active again? It seemed to have mostly stopped for a long time.<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I would not judge it too hard<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: ewll it is a alpha version of singu :)<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[12:21] Bill Blight: Liru is pretty active, and NO not getting updated on the singu website<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: i just used the bin 7766 from their repo<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I was often using the alpha of Sing.<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I still have 1.8.7 (6966) on my machine.<br />
<br>[12:22] Ubit Umarov: so basicly Liru did add the new panel, keeping comp with older regions<br />
<br>[12:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: here andrew https://virtual-nexus.xyz/down/<br />
<br>[12:23] Ubit Umarov: she did told me about it, shown me the code where to see the protocol, so i did add the new cap<br />
<br>[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, ty. Seems odd that those aren't available from the Singularity website.<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: thats another prob with fs code split<br />
<br>[12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: latest macOS build is from 07/23/2019<br />
<br>[12:24] Ubit Umarov: we do not suport sl features.. we suport some VIEWERs features<br />
<br>[12:25] Ubit Umarov: so if some features never reach viewer usable in opensim.. we can't try to support it<br />
<br>[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's wrap up this meeting for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-08-20T19:30:17Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-08-13Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-132019-08-13T19:24:13Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:02] Kayaker Magic: In the mean time, I am considering throwing MicroSquishy off this computer and installing Linux (Ubuntu). But then I'll need a viewer. What the issues?..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: In the mean time, I am considering throwing MicroSquishy off this computer and installing Linux (Ubuntu). But then I'll need a viewer. What the issues?<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: MicroSquishy? :)<br />
<br>[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Pet name for MS<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good one. I haven't seen it referenced in that way before.<br />
<br>[11:03] Sheera Khan: I'm running opensuse here and except for voice no issues<br />
<br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: They are going to force me to upgrade to Windows 10 soon and I refuse.<br />
<br>[11:03] Kayaker Magic: What is the problem with voice?<br />
<br>[11:03] Ubit Umarov: ugly voice?<br />
<br>[11:03] Sheera Khan: no voice client for linux anymore<br />
<br>[11:03] Ubit Umarov: at least thats my problem with voice :p<br />
<br>[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Don't use the SL viewer. :)<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit Umarov: yeah long time since they anounce that<br />
<br>[11:04] Sheera Khan: and since I don't use it I didn't bother with Wine and other stuff<br />
<br>[11:04] Ubit Umarov: linux as desktop.. well..<br />
<br>[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Is there a viewer for Linux that has voice?<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are no library<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Vivox does not support linux any more<br />
<br>[11:05] Sheera Khan: I just wanted to mention it in case Kay didn't know or think about it<br />
<br>[11:05] Ubit Umarov: vivox stopped suporting linux, so new libs to actually connect are available<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, Firestorm and Singularity both have working voice, IIRC.<br />
<br>[11:05] Ubit Umarov: it is a vivox thing...<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was using voice just a few weeks ago.<br />
<br>[11:06] Kayaker Magic: on Linux?<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit Umarov: viewers just use vivox libs<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes, on Linux.<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS has used an old version which may work for now for the Linux version<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I rarely run anything other than Linux.<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it can break any day<br />
<br>[11:06] Angel Fencer: i never known how to make region modules i did however mod opensim directly once<br />
<br>[11:06] Kayaker Magic: How did you get voice working on Linux Andrew, if there is no Vivox library?<br />
<br>[11:07] Sheera Khan: the old ones still working?<br />
<br>[11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Just clicked the tick box to say enable voice chat.<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: You can make it work via Wine<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but hairy solution<br />
<br>[11:07] Kayaker Magic: So there is hope....<br />
<br>[11:07] Angel Fencer: yea just use wine i mean SL doesnt have much depenencies<br />
<br>[11:07] Ubit Umarov: guess old libs kept working until vivox servers changed in incompatible way ( guessing )<br />
<br>[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, I would wonder how (un)stable a viewer would be under Wine.<br />
<br>[11:08] Angel Fencer: sorry i have dyslexia so exuse my spelling<br />
<br>[11:08] Angel Fencer: can i rez stuff here<br />
<br>[11:08] Angel Fencer: is that allowed?<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have heard some have used Dayturn with good results<br />
<br>[11:08] Sheera Khan: Angel, no worries, we are fluent in typoneese<br />
<br>[11:08] Angel Fencer: XD<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: this is also a sandbox, if rez is relevant to a meeting issue<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but no idea how to set it up<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If Vivox have changed things it must be recent if voice has stopped working. It has been a couple weeks since I last used voice.<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: viewers did ship older vivox libs for linux i think<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[11:10] Angel Fencer: let me see if i still got it in me after a few months without using LSL<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: so any recent change was vivox servers refusing those ???<br />
<br>[11:10] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Last time I used my linux build voice still worked with the old libs<br />
<br>[11:11] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: about 2 months ago , I think<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've got a question about some OSSL functions someone is trying to use with an NPC and they don't appear to be working.<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: What function andrew?<br />
<br>[11:14] Kayaker Magic: Ask away Andrew, I'll hold off on my questions.<br />
<br>[11:15] Angel Fencer: i got a question witch cs file gives the server its version fingerprint<br />
<br>[11:15] Angel Fencer: i wanted to mod my own version and add it to the server version string that shows up once u switch sims<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: versioninfo.cs ?<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A user wanted to use osForceAttachToOtherAvatarFromInventory but found it wasn't working with NPCs. Another one isllRemoteLoadScriptPin doesn't appear to be working with NPC attachments.<br />
<br>[11:16] Angel Fencer: anyone willing to touch my mineturtle<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Angel, .version file in the directory with the OpenSim.exe file.<br />
<br>[11:16] Angel Fencer: oh<br />
<br>[11:16] Angel Fencer: thanks<br />
<br>[11:16] Mineturtle: Hello!<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Angel, yw<br />
<br>[11:16] Angel Fencer: XD<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, Mineturtle<br />
<br>[11:17] Mineturtle: Hello!<br />
<br>[11:17] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: touched the turtle<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: .version only works on some linux i thinkl<br />
<br>[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Is there a reason some functions can't be used with NPCs?<br />
<br>[11:17] Angel Fencer: i got to use the lsl function for collision<br />
<br>[11:17] Angel Fencer: cus in ADSF movies it happens when u step on it<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: dunno those cases andrew<br />
<br>[11:18] Angel Fencer: ps this whas just a lil test to see how my memory holded up after not using LSL<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. I looked at the osForce one and see it calls World.GetScenePresence(avatarID). I didn't notice anything obvious in the code that might explain why it doesn't work on an NPC.<br />
<br>[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Every time I build OpenSim.exe, in the source tree I edit this file to add my own info to the version string: OpenSim/Framework/VersionInfo.cs<br />
<br>[11:19] Angel Fencer: nice<br />
<br>[11:19] Angel Fencer: thanks for the tip now i can start working on rebuilding my lua hook and make it a ironpython hook instead<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: well the filename does mean somthing :p<br />
<br>[11:19] Angel Fencer: cause f lua<br />
<br>[11:19] Kayaker Magic: You might want to increase the max version string size in that file also Angel.<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, is there a reason why those functions should not work on NPCs (other than simple bug or not implemented yet)?<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: dunno andrew<br />
<br>[11:20] Angel Fencer: good idea kayaker<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: they are avatars..<br />
<br>[11:21] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I use a bash script with sed to update my version info auto<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, ok, np. That may be something to look into at some point. I could always ask them to file a mantis about functions not working on NPC's.<br />
<br>[11:21] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: gitrev=$(git rev-parse HEAD | cut -c1-6)<br />
<br>update="$gitrev""_""$NOW"<br />
<br>echo "Revision" $update<br />
<br>sed -i -- "s/master_.*;/master_$update;/g" ./OpenSim/Framework/VersionInfo.cs<br />
<br>sed -i -- "s/master_.*,/master_$update,/g" ./OpenSim/Framework/VersionInfo.cs<br />
<br>[11:21] Angel Fencer: also opensim is mit if i rememberd<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Back when I was still able to use 'make' to do the build I would modify the Makefile to create the .version info automatically from info supplied by git.<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: yeah that npc issue my require some deep debug<br />
<br>[11:22] Angel Fencer: witch means i could make private forks<br />
<br>[11:22] Angel Fencer: so why would i use UMMORPG if i can try and build one in OSG<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: .version is created elsewhere.. we don't have it on windoes<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, hm... if I have to go deep I'm likely to never find my way back up. ;)<br />
<br>[11:22] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: version=$(date +%s%3N)<br />
<br>echo $version > bin/.version<br />
<br>echo "osC2_master_$update" >>bin/.version<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: git log -n1 --pretty=format:%h-%ct > bin/.version<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I use a date number so I can easily check if it has incremented for auto update scripts, harder when there are letters in the thing per the git<br />
<br>[11:23] Angel Fencer: anyway i think hooking in ironpython is a nice addition<br />
<br>[11:24] Angel Fencer: since it allows python code + importing dotnet DLLs<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: nahh iron gets rust..<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: ;)<br />
<br>[11:24] Angel Fencer: XD<br />
<br>[11:24] Angel Fencer: yea i am thinking about eather NLua or IronPython<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was building with date and git version so I can know the details about the code being run.<br />
<br>[11:25] Angel Fencer: i forgot to enable it<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, you can go ahead with your information.<br />
<br>[11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Well yeah Andrew I do that for the actual version but not for the .version that only the update scripts actually see ..<br />
<br>[11:27] George Equus: Deeply buried in retched Win10...<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: im on 1903 now<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Win10 is only on my laptop which doesn't get a lot of use.<br />
<br>[11:27] George Equus: try to tame it... so far all well<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: had a power fail on its first reboot.. it did undo everything and i had to restart the update<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: dan had issues installing it<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: issues with some drivers<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: I've told this joke before: "I tried to install some new software on my old computer. It said 'This software requires Windows 10 or better'. So I installed Linux"<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: wonder if i can still revert .net4.8 to 4.7.2<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, Yes, I like that one.<br />
<br>[11:29] George Equus: "This software can not run on Windows 10" bah! sure it can...<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well opensim seems to work again on 4.8<br />
<br>[11:30] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: "Microsoft gives you windows, LInux gives you the rest of the house."<br />
<br>[11:30] George Equus: lol<br />
<br>[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good one, Bill.<br />
<br>[11:30] Kayaker Magic: OK, I'm moving on:<br />
<br>[11:31] Kayaker Magic: last week i asked about the EOC errors from Warp3D. Ubit suggested switching CSJ2K off. When I did I got several interesting results.<br />
<br>[11:31] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Although right now I'm mad at one of my linux boxes, giving me a issue with a e-sata port<br />
<br>[11:31] Kayaker Magic: When I do that, switch to Open JPEG, the EOC marker not found errors go away.<br />
<br>[11:31] Angel Fencer: how do i write Region modules any up to date video tutorials for them?<br />
<br>[11:32] Kayaker Magic: So the errors are coming from some intermediate jpeg file that Warp3D is making, not some texture map in one of my objects.<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Angel, Hold on for a moment. You will be next.<br />
<br>[11:32] Angel Fencer: sorry i didnt know u guys where talking<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: it is the decoder getting lost on something<br />
<br>[11:32] Angel Fencer: >_><br />
<br>[11:32] Kayaker Magic: I think you need to track this down for several reasons:<br />
<br>- Why is CSJ2K getting an error when Open Jpeg does not?<br />
<br>- Trap the error and log it properly<br />
<br>- Indicate where the error happens, for example when painting a particular prim?<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: not sure why we still use csj2k<br />
<br>[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've wondered if the errors were a sign of actual errors in textures or some glitch in a decode library.<br />
<br>[11:33] Kayaker Magic: The latter, I would say<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit Umarov: didn't i answer that already?? :p<br />
<br>[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Another observation is the speed of CSJ2k: When I set it to false, the map generation ran 10 times faster!<br />
<br>[11:34] Kayaker Magic: I'm never switching it back on again!<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, sure. That seems to have been determined. The problem is finding which texture(s) are triggering the problem in order to try and fix the problem.<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: i may remove it from usage<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: if i remember why it was kept there :)<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the consequence to the detail of the map tile by switching off CSJ2k?<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, How is the look of maptiles?<br />
<br>[11:35] Kayaker Magic: They look the same either way.<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok, good.<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: it is just a decoder gavin.Hird<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: a wrapper to openjpeg even i think<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it can safely be turned off<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: think so<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I will try that<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: but for somereason that was made a option<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: does anyone else use jpeg2000 ?<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: sounded a good idea back in the day ll decided on using it<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but bad move<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but then they can afford KDU in the viewer<br />
<br>[11:39] Kayaker Magic: On a 3x3 region with 20000 prims, Warp3D with CSJ2k took 20 minutes to generate the map. Warp3D with Open JPEG took only 2 minutes!<br />
<br>[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've just turned it off in my standalone. I'll check out the startup time and if I no longer see those EOC errors.<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: Kayeker you may be fooled by the caching used on that :)<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: warp3d textures created from jpeg2000 are cached..<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: empty all caches when tessting the change<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: both on robust and simulator<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: warp3d is sim only<br />
<br>[11:40] Kayaker Magic: which textures are cached? When I say generate map I want him to make all my map textures over again from the region data<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it sends the maptile to robust<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: no you do not want that<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I won't be able to test it for a while. A recent update on my Linux box broke MySQL. MySQL is no longer able to start up.<br />
<br>[11:41] Kayaker Magic: OUCH!<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: my win mysql also had odd issues<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no backup to revert to?<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: i lost my test regions dbs<br />
<br>[11:42] Kayaker Magic: When I load new terrain or load an oar, YES I WANT TO GENERATE A NEW MAP!<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: then had issues on robust<br />
<br>[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think it is a DB issue but I do have a backup of the DB.<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: i said textures, not MAP kayaker<br />
<br>[11:42] Kayaker Magic: Which textures?<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: do we call textures to anything else?<br />
<br>[11:43] Kayaker Magic: The map tiles, you do not call them textures?<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: no<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ... I knew I had forgotten to start the db backup today. thanks for the reminder<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: i call them map tiles :p<br />
<br>[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, yw. :)<br />
<br>[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: running...<br />
<br>[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Maptiles may technically be textures but I also call them map tiles.<br />
<br>[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I call them map tiles<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: and we were talking about j2k decoding of textures..<br />
<br>[11:44] Kayaker Magic: Well, if I generate map, restart with csj2k on, generate map, restart with csj2k off, generate map, restart with csj2k on, etc etc, do they all work from the same cached textures? When is the cache emptied?<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: so.. concrete type of "textures"<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is really never emptied<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: and those on warp3d are decoded from j2k and converted to warp3d format, and that is cached<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but generating map will update it<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: of course.. it is heavy to do...<br />
<br>[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: You can force regeneration of maptiles.<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: Grrrrr<br />
<br>[11:46] Kayaker Magic: Yes, uses 140% of my CPU to generate map!<br />
<br>[11:46] Kayaker Magic: Fortunately there are multiple cores....<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: regen uses cached data<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is using 1.4 cores<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: it is heavy<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and code is single thread or your coolers would blowup :p<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if I REALLY want to regen new maptiles I empty assetcache directory on the sim first<br />
<br>[11:47] Kayaker Magic flüstert: Well, I have been complaining about Warp3D slowness and slowing down restarts, but turning CSJ2K off has solved all my problems and I am a happy camper now!<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then it is forced to realod everyting<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: delete caches addes another delay<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: all textures etc need to be fectch from grid<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is wy I said REALLY :-)<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: so just leave the damm assetcache alone :p<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br />
<br>[11:49] Kayaker Magic: I think I have not been fooled by cache then, because I never clear the assetcashe<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: unless you do really have broken files<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on mono upgrades it usually is a good thing to delete the asset caches<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have found<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: We have about 10 minutes left in the hour. Let's put a pin on the CSJ2K discussions for a moment. We can get back to it shortly. Angel had a question.<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Angel, go ahead with your question.<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Scrolling back I see her question is -> how do i write Region modules any up to date video tutorials for them?<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: There is some information in the OpenSimulator wiki. I'm not sure how up to date it is. Does anyone know of any other resources for regio modules?<br />
<br>[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Judging by the silence I take that as a no.<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: i use the c&p method :p<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Angel, the best option is to look at the information in the OpenSim wiki and look for sample Region modules you can use as a reference.<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: but that's not for all :)<br />
<br>[11:55] Kayaker Magic: c&p? Cut & Paste?<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: yeap<br />
<br>[11:55] Angel Fencer: good idea andrew<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: No, it isn't. I've done C&P on some modules I've created.<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: copy perhaps, or you'd lose the source, hehe<br />
<br>[11:56] Angel Fencer: altough i hoped on a youtube tutorial<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: they have all similar base code<br />
<br>[11:57] Kayaker Magic does not like video tutorials. Would rather have a text document.<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Angel, you could search sites like YouTube but I don't expect you will find much, if anything in terms of video tutorials.<br />
<br>[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Angel, What are you thinking of implementing using a region module?<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: well and we do have a few bad ones still around :)<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see her typing a reply at the moment. Perhaps she will answer shortly. Anything more to talk about re: CSJ2K, or some other topic to talk about before we wrap up todays gathering?<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Let's hope she finds a good one to use as a starting point. :)<br />
<br>[12:02] Kayaker Magic: I'm binary chopping a region full of prims that generate the CSJ2K EOC errors to see if there is a prim that can cause the problem<br />
<br>[12:02] Kayaker Magic: If I find one I'll get a copy of it to Ubit<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, sounds good.<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think it must be a very old texture because I only see it in one region that has items dating back to 2008<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: it may depend on the program that encoded the j2k.. different j2k format or something<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know how deep the decoding is done as to whether the code could be easily(?) modified to report on the texture UUID that is triggering the error.<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it could even be a texture larger than 1024 when I think about it<br />
<br>[12:04] Bill Blight: It could be a texture that is not power of 2 as well<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well stop guessing :)<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: originally you could have 2048 textures<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: it is a old thing really<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: that eoc error<br />
<br>[12:05] Kayaker Magic: I recall there were a few large textures in the LL servers, maps of planets.<br />
<br>[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I hope you don't have too many items in the region. Digging through it to find out the problem could take a while.<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: stop guessing.. it is not size.. it is at j3k level<br />
<br>[12:05] Kayaker Magic: Binary chopping has it down to <100 prims already!<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: or j2k<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have a builders tool that has a 2048 texture in it<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is rezzed in a region<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I'll check that<br />
<br>[12:06] Angel Fencer: i am gona hop on my grid to see if those version string changes worked<br />
<br>[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Angel. Thanks for dropping by.<br />
<br>[12:06] Angel Fencer: i hope i didnt make my string to long<br />
<br>[12:06] Angel Fencer: np <3<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: think warp3d does rescale from odd or large sizes to a max<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it probably does, but the decoder could still barf on it if rezzed<br />
<br>[12:07] Angel Fencer: it didnt work<br />
<br>[12:07] Angel Fencer: >:(<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: i changed that code more than a hour ago.. can't remember<br />
<br>[12:08] Kayaker Magic: Friend of mine has that disease: CRS (Can't Remember S**t)<br />
<br>[12:08] Angel Fencer: maybe i didnt replaced enough files<br />
<br>[12:08] Angel Fencer: or i whas beeing a dingus and droped it in the wrong folder<br />
<br>[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Angel, did you restart the region after creating a .version file? If you did restart then Ubit may be right that you need a different file name on Windows .<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: forget .version file<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: .version does nothing anymore<br />
<br>[12:09] Angel Fencer: okay let me try again<br />
<br>[12:09] Bill Blight: you have to edit OpenSim/Framework/VersionInfo.cs and recompile<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: it is versioninfo.cs<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: or that :)<br />
<br>[12:10] Angel Fencer: https://i.imgur.com/vdmM6Xs.png<br />
<br>[12:10] Angel Fencer: its now working fine :D<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: and yes not much space for the version name<br />
<br>[12:10] Bill Blight: (unless you increase it) :P<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: it is viewers region tab<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Why remove the ability to use an external file and force code to be modified to set version info? It makes it harder to deal with providing up-to-date version info when doing compiles.<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: if you increase it, that gets ugly<br />
<br>[12:11] Bill Blight: OpenSim 0.9.1.1 osC2_master_fad0da_095103_081019 (Unix/Mono)<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: code never used -version<br />
<br>[12:11] Bill Blight: not reallly<br />
<br>[12:11] Bill Blight: they don't really limit that field in the viewer it wraps<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The viewer will display it in About Dayturn for instance<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OpenSim 0.9.1.1 osC2_master_fad0da_095103_081019 (Unix/Mono)<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: yeah now (fs) seems to cut it right<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: used to do a mess<br />
<br>[12:12] Bill Blight: yep<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: When I found out about use of .version it was working nicely. I would move between regions running different code and get a report that I moved in to a region with a different version. Before I started using .version I never got those types of messages.<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: i get that report on win and i don't have -version<br />
<br>[12:13] Ubit Umarov: or .version<br />
<br>[12:13] Bill Blight: I didn't go back to using .version till a couple of months ago, and I always got version diff messages,<br />
<br>[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at quarter past the hour. Any other last minute items for today or do we call this one done and dusted?<br />
<br>[12:14] Bill Blight: it is actually a viewer setting<br />
<br>[12:14] Bill Blight: if it's off you won't get it<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL just increased their version numbr for the viewer<br />
<br>[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps it is more recent change. It has been working in Linux for some time.<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have been hlding back a new version of Dayturn awaiting that<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because of a feature not released till today<br />
<br>[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so there should be new builds in a couple of days<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: not even sure what generates that .version file :p<br />
<br>[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, it was something that had to be done manually. I modified Makefile to do it. That was when I could type 'make'. Now that we have to use msbuild I have to run a command to generate the file after my build is done.<br />
<br>[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
<br>[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Mac version is also built with SSE 4.2 which reduced some region crossings from 3 bounces to one half<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Half a bounce?<br />
<br>[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just a blip<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: bahh why don't they use AVX 1.0 ?<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: 2.0 does have issues.. the 256bit things.. yeack..<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: cpus use the 2 128 units to make them<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: so, less paralelism<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: also some 256 organs are deeply powered off by the cpu<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: when a instruction shows up, it needs to power up and that takes ages<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ( coffe lake )<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: also 256 may reduce the SIMD clock even more<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: to prevent burning the core<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: ( SSE already may run at half clock )<br />
<br>[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we don't want burned cores<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: of you stress cpus with SIMD, you may hit thermal overrun<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: even with water coolers<br />
<br>[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on the original IBM RS/6000 it had a boot display code that meant "the CPU is on fire"<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: specially the stupid 8770K i have<br />
<br>[12:21] Ubit Umarov: intel used a damm bad thermal past btw the chip and the case<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Looks like we are done for today. Thank you all for coming. See you all again next week.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-08-13T19:23:45Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
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[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-08-06Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-062019-08-06T19:40:41Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I think I asked about this before: I'm getting a lot of errors in the console that say: "[WARNING]: EOC marker not found. Codestream is corrupted.". If ..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:06] Kayaker Magic: I think I asked about this before: I'm getting a lot of errors in the console that say: "[WARNING]: EOC marker not found. Codestream is corrupted.". If I recall that is from some JPEG decoder library? How come they don't have a timestamp like other messages in the console log?<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its a texture thing<br />
<br>[11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: decode fail<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Not exactly a new message. I've seen lots of those.<br />
<br>[11:07] KentDavis Edman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG6Q1LVg6_A<br />
<br>[11:07] KentDavis Edman: I am show you my youtube about OpenSim.exe<br />
<br>[11:07] Webby Merlin: How can you fix the EOC marker fail issue?<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: replace the texture with a good one<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well you can try to force teh usage og other decoder also<br />
<br>[11:08] Kayaker Magic: How do you find the texture?<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does it not log the uuid?<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't think you can. IIRC, it doesn't provide any information about the texture or the object using the texture.<br />
<br>[11:09] Kayaker Magic: That message doesn't even have a UUID (or a timestamp, making me think it is not printed by the regular log doce)<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: try UseCSJ2K = false in opensim.ini<br />
<br>[11:09] Webby Merlin: so why the message if we can't do anything to fix it<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might be the messageoriginates in the lib<br />
<br>[11:10] KentDavis Edman: Yes I show you my YouTube about what opensim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG6Q1LVg6_A<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, it does, IIRC, when you look at the details of the message or the ones around it.<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kent, if you have a problem your issue will be next.<br />
<br>[11:11] KentDavis Edman: allright<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The error during decode needs to be propagated up to a place where the information about the texture can be provided.<br />
<br>[11:11] Kayaker Magic: I'm just getting dozens of identical lines that say only: "[WARNING]: EOC marker not found. Codestream is corrupted."<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The simulator should be able to log what it is trying to decode<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, It could be from one texture that is used on multiple objects or faces of an object.<br />
<br>[11:13] KentDavis Edman: BRB in RL.<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, are you using Warp3D for map tiles?<br />
<br>[11:13] Kayaker Magic: yes<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It may not be maptile related but that is another area where the code has to deal with object textures.<br />
<br>[11:16] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I see that message during maptile generation when the simulator starts up but apart from that I dont see it.<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: had you seen what i said ?<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: try UseCSJ2K = false in opensim.ini<br />
<br>[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Leighton, ok. That's what I thought I remembered seeing.<br />
<br>[11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, Does that fix the problem or just hide it?<br />
<br>[11:18] Kayaker Magic: I'll try that next restart.<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it changes the decoder used<br />
<br>[11:18] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Ive not tried that I just thought it was a warning that Warp3D is an intensive process and that warning is telling you.<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in same places, etc least<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. I've made a note of that for the next time I see it.<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: .. at least..<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: meanwhile i made master binaries avaiable<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they are pure bin, compiled in release mode..<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If someone wants to dig in to Warp3D they could see if the error can be filtered up so the textures giving the system indigestion could be found so they can be checked.<br />
<br>[11:19] Kayaker Magic: Is release mode the default when I build from sources?<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no, it is debug<br />
<br>[11:20] Kayaker Magic: How do I get into release mode?<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: updated http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Download t, section Test Package<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There is an option /t:Release but I don't remember if that is for msbuild.<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: msbuild /p:Configuration=Release perhaps?<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it is p:----<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: see http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Build_Instructions<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you compile inside VS you just change it at top<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: second line of menu i think, configuration is there<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: Release makes debug harder, but opensim should now run in release<br />
<br>[11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The option setting is shown near the bottom of the web page.<br />
<br>[11:22] Kayaker Magic: I assume performance will be better when built in release mode?<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the new JIT compilers ( when don't have bugs) are now visible faster<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in past it made almost no diference<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so i decide to change our automatic building ( using jenkins) to compile and run tests also in release<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its those binaries, the ones i put now in a zip<br />
<br>[11:25] Kayaker Magic: OK, I've had my question, KentDavis, what is the purpose of that video link you showed us?<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it is updated each time a dev makes a commit that compiles fine and passes tests<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: release mode makes debug harder :(<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but there is another issue<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, how often does that test build package get updated?<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the code in release mode is diferent from the code in debug<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: because all JIT optimizations<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the issue we had with .net4.8 for example only happened in release mode 64bit<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: isn't that the case with all code when you optimize it?<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so to actually test the code we do need to test it in release also<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well its deeper than that<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: since IL idea is really bad, JIT now totally replaces full methods by precompiled ones<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: system.numerics is a outstanding case ( we don't use, but a example)<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: IL code as no SIMD at all, so JIT replaces most of it by code using SIMD<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the funtion that tells if there is hardware aceleration source code in C# always returns false :)<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so now release final code is more diferent that the Debug one than in past<br />
<br>[11:31] KentDavis Edman: I backkkkkk<br />
<br>[11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well so i decide to do it in release mode, so its better tested, even of error messages maybe harder to read<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: How often is that autobuild package on the website updated, Ubit?<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well thats only for those than want to test last dev code and can't compile it<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its on ever commit that passes all tests andrew<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: jenkins makes it in a post built task<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. Good to know. That must be what the "auto" in the name of the package means. :)<br />
<br>[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If we are finished with the texture issue and building options, Kent had a question.<br />
<br>[11:33] KentDavis Edman: yes<br />
<br>[11:33] KentDavis Edman: I have youtube to explain you clear.<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i could not get any usefull info from the video<br />
<br>[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: just seen regions doing shutdown<br />
<br>[11:34] KentDavis Edman: I am not good explain text only.<br />
<br>[11:34] Arielle Popstar: what part is important?<br />
<br>[11:35] KentDavis Edman: download from OSGrid opensimulator folder is error recent itself.<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: The start of the video indicates there is a problem with running OS using mono 6.<br />
<br>[11:35] KentDavis Edman: download of May 2019 I set about June there fine and running.<br />
<br>[11:36] KentDavis Edman: last week I got download exactly the same and error while auto create-region.<br />
<br>[11:36] KentDavis Edman: last June auto create-region is fine because of mono 5.xx<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: we need to see the error message that should be on opensim.ini<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: auto-create a region? That is when you are starting up OS for the first time for a grid or standalone?<br />
<br>[11:37] KentDavis Edman: auto create-region problem last week maybe mono 6.0<br />
<br>[11:37] KentDavis Edman: Yes Andrew first time for a grid (osgrid.org)<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: im sure there is a error message pin point the issue better<br />
<br>[11:37] KentDavis Edman: yes<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, please show us the error message. It will help.<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: i could not see it in the video<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I auto-created multiple regions on mono 6 over the weekend without problems<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't run OS right now as a recent system upgrade killed MySQL on my machine. The database no longer starts.<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: ( it may even be just a region overlapping a existent one<br />
<br>[11:38] KentDavis Edman: I already auto create-region last about June 2019 you see first time mono opensim.exe running is fine.<br />
<br>[11:39] KentDavis Edman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG6Q1LVg6_A<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: we need the error messages on opensim.log, not a video<br />
<br>[11:40] KentDavis Edman: opensim.log ok<br />
<br>[11:40] KentDavis Edman: how can I send you opensim.log?<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I like that sound effect better than the sleigh bells Kayaker used to use.<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Use a text editor, Kent.<br />
<br>[11:41] KentDavis Edman: Ok<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Perhaps a Mantis with the logs attached<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and link to the video?<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: delete opensim.log that start the regions again<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: so it is a shorter file<br />
<br>[11:42] KentDavis Edman: very long paragraph on opensim.log<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: delete opensim.log then start the regions again<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: opensim.log keeps getting each run appended<br />
<br>[11:42] KentDavis Edman: Ok delete opensim.log<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: that is only to make it shorter and with only that run information...<br />
<br>[11:44] KentDavis Edman: same error mono opensim.exe did not auto create-region after delete opensim.log<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: i said, delete opensim.log is only to make it shorter, fixes nothing<br />
<br>[11:45] KentDavis Edman: yes I did delete opensim.log<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: in fact we should delete it by hand now and then, or it grows.. grows...<br />
<br>[11:46] KentDavis Edman: allright<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: hmm there is a option somewhere to rotate logs.. don't remember<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can set up a config to rotate them<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: yeah something on opensim.exe.config,. but we are running out of topic :)<br />
<br>[11:46] KentDavis Edman: That is all I show you.<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[11:46] KentDavis Edman: opensim.exe.config how?<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: The video shows no error messages during start up of OS 0.9.1 from downloaded from osgrid and run using mono 6.0<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: see what you done Gavin?<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what did I do??<br />
<br>[11:47] KentDavis Edman: Yes that what you can see video still error<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: forget opensim.exe.config ken that was not for you :)<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I know nothing!<br />
<br>[11:47] KentDavis Edman: sigh<br />
<br>[11:48] KentDavis Edman: I am wait for update solve problem 9.2<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, it is in the configuration for the logger. I can't remember the filename.<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: it is where i said the log conf is there also<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Found it. It is in OpenSim32.exe.config<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: i seen that a few days ago, don't remember where :)<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: You change the LogFileAppender reference<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: well that one should be like opensim.exe.config<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: we should had another version on another folder<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: have..<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: osgrid does that no?<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: well kentDavis<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I experimented sending all the log files to Splunk, and it was actually quite useful<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: you need to run the region, see the problem then look in opensim.log what was the error<br />
<br>[11:51] KentDavis Edman: I am tell you on youtube. I am not good to explain you text only.<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: it should be somewhere btw region enable messages and region shutdown ones<br />
<br>[11:52] KentDavis Edman: Ok let me open opensim.log<br />
<br>[11:52] Ubit Umarov: if fails even if you don't login ?<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, That logger feature has something to do with Nini.<br />
<br>[11:53] KentDavis Edman: how can send long paragraph text?<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: no its log4something<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Um.. no, not Nini.<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: yea.<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, log4net.dll<br />
<br>[11:53] Ubit Umarov: try past it here :)<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: paste<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Nini - who came up with that name?<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: er i mean ONE line kent, not the full log of course :)<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg's sister was called Nini<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: anyone else using mono6 ?<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I do<br />
<br>[11:55] Ubit Umarov: any issues?<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nope<br />
<br>[11:55] Bill Blight: I have not been that brave yet ...<br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Since Microsoft just installed mono 6 when I upgraded VS I just had to take the plunge<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: im still on vs2017<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit: <appender name="LogFileAppender" type="log4net.Appender.RollingFileAppender"><br />
<br>[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: this is the macOS version of VS<br />
<br>[11:56] KentDavis Edman: I don't know which one. one line.<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: I guess I'll have to get it installed and see what is up<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the PIs are running mono 6 too<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, the ini part has to do with the dll handling ini files. I don't know about the leading N.<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thanks Andrew ;-)<br />
<br>[11:58] KentDavis Edman: I am confused ubit<br />
<br>[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Kent, look for a line that says Exception, or ERROR.<br />
<br>[11:58] KentDavis Edman: exception or error let me check<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile any other topic?<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: In a case where I have start up issues with OS I ctrl-C after it gets stuck or an error appears on screen. That way the error will be near the end of the file and not buried back before a bunch of shutdown messages.<br />
<br>[11:59] KentDavis Edman: not there (exception) or (error) search.<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I brought up 9 public regions running mono 6 on a 4GB PI https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?threads/running-9-standard-regions-on-a-raspberry-pi-4.117/<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you can visit if you want<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks 's ears perk up at the mention of Pi. :)<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: forgot my helmet Gavin.Hird<br />
<br>[12:00] KentDavis Edman: Ubit. exception or error not there.<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no helmet required, hehe<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: browse the file looking fo those or failed or something, before the shutdown<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually I did need a helmet because a couple meshes that was fine in Bullet because solid on ubOde<br />
<br>[12:01] Ubit Umarov: ( assuming you did not shutdow the regions<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I had to replace them<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: the old meshes issue<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: no date to be PRIM type<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Kent, I was also going to mention that you can watch the error messages go by during startup and look for red text. Judging by the can you are holding, that may not be possible for you.<br />
<br>[12:02] KentDavis Edman: I did not type "shutdown" ubit<br />
<br>[12:02] Ubit Umarov: no data i meant<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: One thing I discrovered though, is that for the simulator http port also udp needs to be open for the same port, or the viewer will crash druing logout<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: not sure it needs to the the same port<br />
<br>[12:03] KentDavis Edman: Andrew, mono opensim.exe appear root: without auto create-region<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I first tried with VARs next to regular regions and terraforming the region borders worked absolutely brilliant<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but then teleporting or cross between them became error prone<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: You are using the exact same ini and region files in the latest 0.9.1 as you are using in the versions of OS that work?<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I ended converting all to standard regions<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: btw you can terraform in gimp :p<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: ( guess if heigh < 256m )<br />
<br>[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think I would be worse off trying to do it in gimp<br />
<br>[12:07] Bill Blight: I just brought up a region on the osgrid download on mono 6 , no errors on startup<br />
<br>[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be possible to do it with GIMP but somewhat painful.<br />
<br>[12:07] KentDavis Edman: Andrew yes. exactly of May 2019 auto create-region last June it work but mono 6.0 I just recent then osgrid.org download then mono open.sim (last week) error<br />
<br>[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have found that using the flatten brush with a small size across region borders actually will smooth over it<br />
<br>[12:07] KentDavis Edman: 0.9.1<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: what do you call "auto create-region" ?<br />
<br>[12:08] KentDavis Edman: mono opensim.exe then process appear<br />
<br>[12:08] KentDavis Edman: region[]:<br />
<br>[12:08] KentDavis Edman: last June<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: and you answer the questions.. ok<br />
<br>[12:09] KentDavis Edman: then last week I got download again exactly because Mono 6.0 recent and . . .<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: are you sure there isn't a region on grid already on same location ?<br />
<br>[12:09] KentDavis Edman: mono opensim.exe process appear root:<br />
<br>[12:09] KentDavis Edman: not matter location ignore it.<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: did not asked questions?<br />
<br>[12:10] KentDavis Edman: I told you I am not good english text only.<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: the file Regions.ini had anything on it?<br />
<br>[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what language kent?<br />
<br>[12:11] KentDavis Edman: yes I did test I put region.ini and mono opensim.exe couldn't reach region.ini (last week)<br />
<br>[12:11] KentDavis Edman: while download from osgrid.org (last week)<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: if there is a regions.ini with regions data, it will not ask anything about creating a region<br />
<br>[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so will your region be attached to OSGrid?<br />
<br>[12:12] KentDavis Edman: thinking.<br />
<br>[12:13] KentDavis Edman: osgrid.org then click Download link<br />
<br>[12:14] Bill Blight: there is a region to the soutwest corner called Mono6Test, just created it with the stock osgrid download, on mono6, seem to be able to reach it no problem<br />
<br>[12:14] KentDavis Edman: click opensim 9.1 link (youtube show you proof) appear folder say 9.0.1 folder (last week) then mono opensim.exe cause appear root:<br />
<br>[12:15] Bill Blight: how big is that region?<br />
<br>[12:16] KentDavis Edman: osgrid-opensim-05142019.v.9.0.1.0e2adbe.zip<br />
<br>[12:16] KentDavis Edman: That what I did download from osgrid.org<br />
<br>[12:17] KentDavis Edman: osgrid.org online say Download: OSgrid OpenSimulator 0.9.1.dev.0e2adbe - [zip] [35.3mb] 05-14-2019<br />
<br>built from OpenSimulator git hash : 0e2adbe0fb030eae48bb778b21495d5d50ba8f2a<br />
<br>[12:17] KentDavis Edman: 2 different version<br />
<br>[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: If you are connecting a region to osgrid you need to request a region from the grid. You can't auto-create it and thrown in any old set of coordinates for the region. You would be likely to overlap an existing region.<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: the zip file name v is worng, it means 0.9.1.0<br />
<br>[12:18] KentDavis Edman: They need to fix update please.<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I thought so too Andrew<br />
<br>[12:18] Bill Blight: Nothing wrong with it, just brought up a region<br />
<br>[12:18] Ubit Umarov: bill just tested that and it worked fine kentDavis<br />
<br>[12:18] Bill Blight: it is up just fine , still up<br />
<br>[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: find a map location where there is space for the regions you want and register them<br />
<br>[12:19] KentDavis Edman: I am use macintosh<br />
<br>[12:19] KentDavis Edman: Open Terminal.app<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: unzip it to a clean folder?<br />
<br>[12:19] Ubit Umarov: did you...<br />
<br>[12:20] KentDavis Edman: (last about June) it work I already see auto create-region that mean appear (region []:) itself<br />
<br>[12:20] KentDavis Edman: unzip first then drag to document folder.<br />
<br>[12:20] Ubit Umarov: ( andrew osgrid ships a "optional" folder than has ..exe.cofnig files with the log rotation )<br />
<br>[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, ok. I'm running OS with the log rotation for a small grid.<br />
<br>[12:22] KentDavis Edman: (last week) download from osgrid how can auto create-region?<br />
<br>[12:22] Bill Blight: I'm still trying to figure out what "auto create region" is<br />
<br>[12:22] KentDavis Edman: auto create-region that mean new appear region.ini<br />
<br>[12:23] Bill Blight: oh you mean when there is no existing region ini file<br />
<br>[12:23] KentDavis Edman: region [00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000]]:<br />
<br>[12:23] Bill Blight: it only does it when there is NO region file<br />
<br>[12:23] KentDavis Edman: (last about June) yes appear region []:<br />
<br>[12:24] KentDavis Edman: last week not work doesn't appear region [] because of Mono 6.0\<br />
<br>[12:24] Bill Blight: I just did it, worked fine mono 6<br />
<br>[12:24] KentDavis Edman: did you got download zip recent this week?<br />
<br>[12:24] KentDavis Edman: opensimulator folder<br />
<br>[12:25] Bill Blight: https://i.gyazo.com/e2259966947bc946c85faaee5a604ca5.png<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: yeah just did download osgrid bin<br />
<br>[12:26] Bill Blight: osgrid-opensim-05142019.v.9.0.1.0e2adbe.zip<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: did unzip to a clean folder..<br />
<br>[12:26] KentDavis Edman: I mean did you download recent opensimulator .zip this week then try mono opensim.exe (this week)?<br />
<br>[12:26] Ubit Umarov: started and it asked for region data<br />
<br>[12:27] KentDavis Edman: are you use macintosh?<br />
<br>[12:27] Ubit Umarov: hm just don't know where in hell i did place it on grid map LOL<br />
<br>[12:27] Bill Blight: not mac Linux<br />
<br>[12:27] KentDavis Edman: Linux and Mac is different.<br />
<br>[12:28] Ubit Umarov: ohh its at 11089 11005<br />
<br>[12:28] KentDavis Edman: Please do focus for Macintosh more inspect opensimulator folder zip<br />
<br>[12:28] KentDavis Edman: No use Linux and no use windows. focus on Macintosh<br />
<br>[12:29] KentDavis Edman: Now you got it?<br />
<br>[12:30] KentDavis Edman: sigh<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: gavin is the macs person here, we don't have macs<br />
<br>[12:30] Ubit Umarov: and should not matter<br />
<br>[12:30] KentDavis Edman: sigh you ask some one about macintosh<br />
<br>[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: You should not use auto-region generation when connecting a region to osgrid.<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: ok my new region ( win 10 .net 4.8 ) is just north of here<br />
<br>[12:31] Ubit Umarov: no issues<br />
<br>[12:31] KentDavis Edman: Andrew how?<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: on a fresh bin folder it is just start opensim, it then asks the questions to create a new region<br />
<br>[12:32] KentDavis Edman: I see Ubit message<br />
<br>[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Kent, the osgrid website has a page for generating a Region ini file. If you randomly pick a location you may overlap an existing or reserved region.<br />
<br>[12:32] KentDavis Edman: did you mean use Macintosh terminal.app then mono opensim.exe?<br />
<br>[12:32] Ubit Umarov: ( osgrid config only needs changes to use MySQL and ports basicly =<br />
<br>[12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are you on a Mac Kent?<br />
<br>[12:33] KentDavis Edman: I am not use randomly picks a location no.<br />
<br>[12:33] KentDavis Edman: I am use Mac yes<br />
<br>[12:33] Ubit Umarov: well my region is just there... pretty flat terrain at 25m :)<br />
<br>[12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what language Kent?<br />
<br>[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Kent, you said auto-region generation.<br />
<br>[12:33] KentDavis Edman: last about June 2019 it work.<br />
<br>[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Not sure what you mean by auto-region generation.<br />
<br>[12:34] KentDavis Edman: I am full deaf and I do use sign language as well. english only<br />
<br>[12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: understand<br />
<br>[12:34] KentDavis Edman: mono opensim.exe process appear region []: itself (last about June 2019)<br />
<br>[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: If you copy the region ini file from the June 2019 set up to your latest one do you still have a problem with OS not starting up as you expect?<br />
<br>[12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which version of macOS are you on?<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-08-06T19:39:48Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-07-30Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-302019-07-30T19:14:07Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: We have a good attendance here now with most of the regular attendees. Time to get this show on the road. :) <br>[11:09] Ubit Umaro..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: We have a good attendance here now with most of the regular attendees. Time to get this show on the road. :)<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: ok, so andrew, what are the topics for today ?<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: ;)<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Welcome to another of the weekly OpenSim developer meetings.<br />
<br>[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org grins at Ubit.<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Let see what Gavin and/or Kayaker have in the way of questions.<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, do you have any other questions left over from last time?<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am not sure I have much for entertainment today<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. np.<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: How about you, Kayaker?<br />
<br>[11:11] Kayaker Magic: The 0.8 code had terrible hysteresis on aiming weapons in mouse-look mode, 0.9 is a lot better but not perfect. Where in the code would I look to see how that is done?<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... Good question.<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: avatar rotation is confusing<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: it does rotate the head, only then the body<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: there are special animations that we can't replace, that improve that, moving the torso also, so a gun does point closer to the target<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: the sl aim ones<br />
<br>[11:13] Kayaker Magic: But the cursor is drawn in the right place, how can I find out where the cursor is placed?<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: those trigger special code on viewers to do that<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: but we can't tell any other to do the same<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: at least as far as i know<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: so without those, a gun is moved with the main avatar body, thats a few degrees off<br />
<br>[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Oh, I never expect the gun to look like it is pointing in the right direction.<br />
<br>[11:16] Kayaker Magic: But I wish I could find out where the cursor was really pointing.<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: we only get a direction<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: lookat etc<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Did you ask in SL forums?<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: i would like to that the focal point of the camera.. but nahh<br />
<br>[11:18] Kayaker Magic: It works very well in SL, so nothing to ask there.<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: i think shots do go to where you point here<br />
<br>[11:21] Kayaker Magic: To look at the code, I should start looking at the implimentation of llGetCameraRot?<br />
<br>[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: They did the last time I was trying out a snowball thrower device.<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: possible yes kayaker<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: main issue i see it guns pointing in other direction.. odd effect :)<br />
<br>[11:22] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: you can use a ray to find out exactly where it is going , visually<br />
<br>[11:22] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: or even a particle stream<br />
<br>[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, I'm running an old test script and llGetCameraRot is working better than I recall.<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I should say where it is pointing as opposed to the avatar/crosshairs<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: 0.9 as changes on those things<br />
<br>[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Isnt the direction the weapon mesh pointing adjustable like any attachment?<br />
<br>[11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeah you can adjust it, but sometimes the axis gets mussed up if your rays or bullets are set to leave via a certain point<br />
<br>[11:28] Kayaker Magic: Here's a question for Gavin: Is there a mantis for submitting questions to you about your viewer?<br />
<br>[11:28] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: especially with mesh the visual look is not always lined up with the axis<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Right now you can do on the forum<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a JIRA, but not public yet<br />
<br>[11:29] Kayaker Magic: url to the forum please?<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?forums/support.15/<br />
<br>[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Any other questions, Kayaker?<br />
<br>[11:31] Kayaker Magic: I haven't been back long enough to accumulate questions. I'll do better next week!<br />
<br>[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok. :)<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Does someone else have a question or topic of discussion about OS?<br />
<br>[11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Well Ubit has not broken anything lately so topics are slim ... :P<br />
<br>[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Any news on the new viewer project?<br />
<br>[11:33] George Equus: Got one Q..<br />
<br>[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Not really apart from the small release last week<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: no kayaker<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: George, you're up next.<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: well i did those "cosmetics" commits today.. did you tested them? :p<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, do you mean the one that was meant to be an OS only release?<br />
<br>[11:34] George Equus: Almost always crash when trying to HG in to my own regions on osgrid. Cause unknown, need to go<br />
<br>to a plaza or other region on the grid first b4 tp to mine. Any ideas? something I need to do on my setup?<br />
<br>[11:36] Kayaker Magic: A related issue: I often cannot HG to my own regions, but if I go to Wright Plaza then HG to my own land it works.<br />
<br>[11:36] George Equus: Or is it just because of a slow server, it is very very old<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: thats kinda odd<br />
<br>[11:36] George Equus: running for 9 years now<br />
<br>[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My first thought would be a nat/loopback issue but since you can get to your own regions by going somewhere else first I don't think that has anything to do with the problem.<br />
<br>[11:37] Ubit Umarov: possible some issue on the negociation with grid on first hg login<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: How far do you get through the TP process before the viewer crashes?<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think I had similar problems when I had OSG regions in 2014, but it came down to dns issues<br />
<br>[11:38] George Equus: And going from any other region on the grid rarely give problems. just HG, most of the time.<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: yeha dns can be critical<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Funny you should mention that, George. A DNS issue was my next thought.<br />
<br>[11:38] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeah if the region, or grid have cached bad DNS HG can be a pain ...<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: or if they don't :)<br />
<br>[11:39] George Equus: HG in general is fine, seldom problematic<br />
<br>[11:39] Ubit Umarov: google dns does not like dyndns<br />
<br>[11:39] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: not at all<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: also does not like many requests, and opensim does a ton<br />
<br>[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If you know the IP address for your region you could use it in a TP and see if that avoids crashing all the time. Not ideal but would be worth trying.<br />
<br>[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It could help identify a DNS related issue.<br />
<br>[11:40] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: well in reality it is not dynDNS per-say it is short TTL that they hate and tend to ignore updates that happen too fast ..<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: dyndns can have 1minute ttl.. and it hates that<br />
<br>[11:41] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: for sure<br />
<br>[11:41] George Equus: I usually get "incoming avatar" in console then viewer crash<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: 1 minute TTL? Wow. I would say that is way too short.<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what machine are you running as server?<br />
<br>[11:41] George Equus: a relog mostly state I am already logged in so it seem to register partly.<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or operating system on your server rather<br />
<br>[11:43] Sheera Khan: Metro has similar issues since the change of the grid-URL - some HG-TPs work others fail without any specific and fully reproducible pattern<br />
<br>[11:43] George Equus: In reality a minor problem, just need to go via another region on Osgrid first :) I can live with it, but maybe is a common problem?<br />
<br>[11:44] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: windows itself can have a crappy dns cache, if I am forced to use a windows box I put in a scheduled job that runs every 20 minutes to do a "ipconfig /flushdns"<br />
<br>[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: is that to get to a home hosted region George?<br />
<br>[11:44] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: or change the DNS windows is using like i do<br />
<br>[11:45] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: well yeah you can do that, but most people use their ISP's dns ..<br />
<br>[11:45] George Equus: Compac nc6400 Gavin, running Windows 7<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:45] George Equus: 15? Y old..<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: ppl should use the ISP dns :p<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: ( and it should be good )<br />
<br>[11:46] Arielle Popstar: is it me or is it these seats?<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they should Ubit<br />
<br>[11:46] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: i use opendns as my ISPs DNS is bad<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but thats the logic od DNS<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: ( the tree etc etc )<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Royale, are they the ones that have DNS servers with addresses of something like 222.222 in them?<br />
<br>[11:47] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: i think so been awhile since i set them<br />
<br>[11:47] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: i set my computer and router to opendns ages ago<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I have used them myself when I was having an issue with a more local DNS.<br />
<br>[11:48] Kayaker Magic: I use Dyndns to get to linux servers in my barn. Any experience with speed of dyndns?<br />
<br>[11:48] Arielle Popstar: are those the google dns things like 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.2.2?<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: yes arielle<br />
<br>[11:49] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: you could try the cloudflares at 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: also many linux distros set to use it by default<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dyndns has a special updater you can install https://dyn.com/updater-windows/<br />
<br>[11:49] Arielle Popstar: i use those. Way faster then my isp's<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: i used another one<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I used to use the Mac version and it worked fine on OSG<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ( have it set also plus my isp ones )<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill Blight: google is 8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4 4.4.4.4 and 4.2.2.2 is verizon<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: i used the second most used on a list of free dns i found on google ( first was google )<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: I'd suggest OpenDNS if you are going to use something other than your ISP ..<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: https://use.opendns.com/<br />
<br>[11:52] Arielle Popstar: did the sits get changed here?<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: nothing has changed on this region for ages<br />
<br>[11:52] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: what do you mean Arielle?<br />
<br>[11:53] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: the hovering height?<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle Popstar: see me sitting 10 inches abouve the stool?<br />
<br>[11:53] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I'm floating too since ages here<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you change your viewer or upgrade it since last time?<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle Popstar: oh duh right. that was fixed :)<br />
<br>[11:53] Arielle Popstar: i forgot<br />
<br>[11:54] Arielle Popstar: the hover height slider was fixed<br />
<br>[11:54] Bill Blight: there are only two chairs here that are not just copies of the others and that is mine and Andrews<br />
<br>[11:55] George Equus: I like floating.. got a skinny ars :)<br />
<br>[11:55] Arielle Popstar: that can be fixed!<br />
<br>[11:55] George Equus: Botox?<br />
<br>[11:56] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: setting the hover height in FS works<br />
<br>[11:56] Arielle Popstar: it does<br />
<br>[11:57] Ubit Umarov: think i did a commit on avatar hover<br />
<br>[11:57] Arielle Popstar: yes the region flag<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: yeah<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you did<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: works good between places that have it, go someplace or come from some place that doesn't and it can be funky<br />
<br>[11:58] George Equus: works fine here<br />
<br>[11:59] Arielle Popstar: well can make it work on regions that dont have it by TP'ing to another region and then back<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Any last minute questions before we wrap up todays gathering?<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-07-30T19:13:24Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
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= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
* No meeting was held on 2019-01-08<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2017-12-19<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
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Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-07-23Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-232019-07-23T19:19:36Z<p>Sheera Khan: </p>
<hr />
<div>[11:09] Arielle Popstar: so now that FS has a Opensim only viewer, any new features or fixes planned?<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: who are you asking Arielle?<br />
<br>[11:11] Arielle Popstar: Ubit or anyone else who might be planning something<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plan what?<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am just interested in what you think will happen<br />
<br>[11:12] Arielle Popstar: well core devs been wanting a opensim only viewer for ages. The time has arrived<br />
<br>[11:12] Bill Blight: They have not release it yet<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: we don't control fs devs<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because FS will probalby be frozen as is for a long time<br />
<br>[11:12] Ubit Umarov: fear most their attention will be on the SL only one<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have a hellish merge in front of them for the SL version<br />
<br>[11:12] Arielle Popstar: they have released a SL only one so the opensim one is open to specific opensim changes<br />
<br>[11:13] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I have the same fear Ubit but trying to stay positive<br />
<br>[11:13] Bill Blight: I is no more open than it was before , just that now it is a separate repo<br />
<br>[11:13] Arielle Popstar: the have one coder at least whose interest is in opensim<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: on singularity Liru did work on adding the new parcel/estate things<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: ill try to look to opensim side<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: code does not even compile on macOS<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hasn't for many years<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: what code does not compile?<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Singu<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well i did not tried<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it barely compiles for Windows<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: always a pain to compile a viewer<br />
<br>[11:15] Bill Blight: Ubit and I did some work with Beq and was very positive , so I hope that trend continues<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeah but Beq did warn that will not have time for opensim features<br />
<br>[11:15] Arielle Popstar: thats the dev who is interested in opensim<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did it result in any changes / addition?<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill Blight: we were on a bug hunt, but nothing NEW<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: the problems she did look at where actualy SL problems also<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what were the problems?<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: some old things i did add on fs jira ( to be kicked by ansariel )<br />
<br>[11:17] Bill Blight: xfer, and object contents loading .. and a few others I forget now<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: spam due to offline messages etc<br />
<br>[11:17] Bill Blight: FS is its own worst enemy when it comes to object content loading ..<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, discussed here before<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeap old things<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: i have not talked with Beq sinc then<br />
<br>[11:18] Bill Blight: I Think I saw her once since then, in passing<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there were new viewer builds a couple days back at https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: primarily fixes for the ao and removal of the SL grids<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: well i need to look to what liru did, and try to suport it<br />
<br>[11:19] Arielle Popstar: kk thx Gavin<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am a bit slow at making changes as I had a heart incident at the end of May after which the heart is running very slow parts of the day so I spontaneous fall asleep, and therefore not able to concentrate much<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: she did merge the new sl code on estate access etc<br />
<br>[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 wishes you all the best for a full recovery<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: thats another potencial issue with the FS split,,,<br />
<br>[11:23] Arielle Popstar: oh careful of that Gavin<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: they may decide that new SL features are not for opensim<br />
<br>[11:24] Arielle Popstar: well maybe they need to know if opensim devs will put them server side<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: and without a viewer with new features to suport, we can't suport<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: so.. well.. lets see<br />
<br>[11:27] George Equus: btw, on water... Successfully lowered the water level on one region, it worked just fine. Thanks for that info!!<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: glad to hear<br />
<br>[11:27] Bill Blight: cool<br />
<br>[11:28] George Equus: If only could do that on one parcel... picture a mountain region with deep mines and small mountain lakes with "real" system water...<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think that is hard to implement in the current renderer<br />
<br>[11:29] Arielle Popstar: i'd like system water to use for a mirror<br />
<br>[11:29] George Equus: hard to simulate water with prims and textures realistically<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I agree<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: water needs special gpu code<br />
<br>[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Skye has a water system that works reasonably good<br />
<br>[11:30] George Equus: and you loose the water experience when walking in to a lake<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: that would be a cool thing to show s/l up on<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: as well as a better system avatar<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: especially the female one<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: same games do have damm good water now<br />
<br>[11:30] George Equus: If accomplished would make OSGrid unique<br />
<br>[11:30] Arielle Popstar: it would george<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle Popstar: and we need that<br />
<br>[11:31] Arielle Popstar: to show we can do it better here<br />
<br>[11:40] Arielle Popstar: so whats a wishlist if we could get viewer side support?<br />
<br>[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the current OpenSim related topic of discussion?<br />
<br>[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Arielle is making wishes<br />
<br>[11:41] Arielle Popstar: the recent FS opensim only viewer<br />
<br>[11:41] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: could secure logins via the viewer be possible?<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:42] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: they are already<br />
<br>[11:42] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: short and sweet<br />
<br>[11:42] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Are they Royale?<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Oz Linden was asked about that in the last TPV meeting, and he basically not doable with the current code<br />
<br>[11:42] Arielle Popstar: https?<br />
<br>[11:42] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: if you mean via https is already doable<br />
<br>[11:43] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Would like that for my grid<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no it is not<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only for a small portion of the communication<br />
<br>[11:43] Arielle Popstar: yes thought HY on hgluv has already<br />
<br>[11:43] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I can name several grids who have https logins<br />
<br>[11:43] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I thought it all happens in plain text in Opensim?<br />
<br>[11:45] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: SL & Zetaworlds for example have https login uris<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the login page, yes<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the rest of the comms is NOT https<br />
<br>[11:45] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: grid uri not splash<br />
<br>[11:45] Arielle Popstar: but does it work for hypergrid?<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: regions could use https already<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you rewrite the viewer<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: please go ahead<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: it does https gavin.Hird<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: and so do 0.91 regions<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: When Oz says it is not doable with the current viewer code I listen to him<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: but not robust still<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 99% of all viewer code is Linden code<br />
<br>[11:46] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: which is the part that authenticates the user?<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: dont know what he was talking about<br />
<br>[11:47] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: and most of the lindens who know the viewer best are gone<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why they struggle to make changes<br />
<br>[11:47] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: so to summarize partially and no to my question.<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, He might say that but it might not be true. There have been a few instances where some code change was thought to be major work and in the end it wasn't that difficult. Sometimes it takes someone who doesn't know it is supposed to be hard to do it. :)<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The hard code is the renderer<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have not managed to recruit a render enginner despite having the position open for 2 years<br />
<br>[11:49] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I know the lindens used to ask Latif Khalifa questions about the viewer protocol before he died as apparently he knew it better then the current lindens<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so every piddly little change that also affect all content is a real struggle<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: That shows the value of documenting code.<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true, but to write a renderer you probably have to be all in on it<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: George, Last week you said you had some OS related questions. Did you get a chance to ask any of them today?<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks waits for George to finish typing.<br />
<br>[12:01] George Equus: Only got one "biggie" (for me) a script that won't function on the current version but that is more of someone looking at the script and adjust it. Asked the creator but he never came back with a working solution :) Is a patrol bot script. Ubit took a look ages ago.<br />
<br>[12:01] George Equus: sorry type too much in one go lol<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: np<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Was the script written for SL or for OS?<br />
<br>[12:02] George Equus: Apart from the per parcel water I am rather happy with things here<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-07-23Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-232019-07-23T16:13:10Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "The meeting is about to start at 20:00 CEST or 18:00 UTC at "The Meeting Place" on region "Dev Outreach" in OSGrid - See you there :-) Category:Office Hour Logs"</p>
<hr />
<div>The meeting is about to start at 20:00 CEST or 18:00 UTC at "The Meeting Place" on region "Dev Outreach" in OSGrid - See you there :-)<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-07-23T16:06:58Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
* No meeting was held on 2019-01-08<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2017-12-19<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-07-16Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-162019-07-16T19:21:55Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:06] Sheera Khan: Firestorm split their OpenSim- and SecondLife branches today... <br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I saw that <br>[11:07] Misterblue Waves: what ..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:06] Sheera Khan: Firestorm split their OpenSim- and SecondLife branches today...<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I saw that<br />
<br>[11:07] Misterblue Waves: what was the reason for the split?<br />
<br>[11:07] Sheera Khan: https://www.firestormviewer.org/second-life-opensim-are-no-longer-joined-at-the-hip/<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: yes seen that also<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: too complicated to combine the two<br />
<br>[11:08] Ubit Umarov: something they planed for ages<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same as we did for KokuaOS that is now Dayturn<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: should allow cleaner code for each opensim and sl<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I will add a new version of Dayturn later this week with the SL grids removed from the grid selector<br />
<br>[11:09] Ubit Umarov: lets hope they do have devs working on that opensim branch, thats the only problem<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they might Ubit<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: repository has not changed since March<br />
<br>[11:10] Ubit Umarov: and they do keep adding selected sl improvements, in coordenation with us<br />
<br>[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the current SL merge with eep and stuff is hellish for them<br />
<br>[11:11] Ubit Umarov: yeah my fear is that no one there will work on that opensim branch<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they'll have to pull Lightshare out of that base to add eep<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Question about Ubode, now that I have tested it more<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you make a very simple mesh building<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and make a very simple correspoding collision model<br />
<br>[11:13] Misterblue Waves: that has always been a problem -- no one is there to give the OpenSIm version any love<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when placed on a region uboode, one of the wall - usually one with a window cut out is as a hot knife through butter<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can walk right through it from the inside<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is this a known issue?<br />
<br>[11:13] Misterblue Waves: Cinder used to but there was some drama<br />
<br>[11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah on same code base, they had to look on each release<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: ode does single side collisions only<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: meaning?<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: all prims are double side<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the collison model is two sided<br />
<br>[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so all walls but one collide perfectly<br />
<br>[11:14] Ubit Umarov: meaning each triangle only collides from on side<br />
<br>[11:14] Sheera Khan: are the normals correct?<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: from the "outside" side<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: ie the one that has normal point outwards<br />
<br>[11:15] Ubit Umarov: i had some parts of cylinders doing that :)<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the normals are pointing in the right direction both on the inside and outside mesh<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as does the physics model<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: as you say, wrong normal :)<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: explain<br />
<br>[11:16] Ubit Umarov: hmm explain what gavin ?<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what you mean by wrong normal<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: wrong normal direction<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the normal is pointing out from the surface in the correct direction<br />
<br>[11:17] Ubit Umarov: you can see mesh normals in viewer<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and they point the way they are supposed to<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: they should work<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they don't<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: then...<br />
<br>[11:18] Ubit Umarov: then something wrong on that mesh :p<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if there is a cutout like a window<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it works everywhere else<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: are you sure it was uploaded right?<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Also make sure the physics shape type is set right ... Miss those sometimes ...<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it works correct both in bulletsim and in Havok¨<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: "of course" does not mean much on mesh uploads, viewers are creative<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is set right<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: bullet and havoc do double side colisions<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: at least on some meshs<br />
<br>[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What program was used to create the mesh model where the normals appear to be wrong in world?<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: any prog can do that<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bullet and havok can use a single plane for collision and it will collide from both side<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ubode need a collision surface on both sides of a wall for example<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the meshes I have the issue with have that<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: gavin how many times i need to tell that ode only does single side collisions??<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you can only make walls that work from one side?<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: yes you need 2 surfaces...<br />
<br>[11:21] Misterblue Waves: there is a flag in BulletSim to turn off double side collisions....<br />
<br>[11:21] Misterblue Waves: physics engines prefer doing single side collisions because it's a lot less computing<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure, but users prefers walls that work from both sides :-)<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: like if you do a wall with boxes.. all prims have outside faces<br />
<br>[11:22] Misterblue Waves: and one doesn't get things caught together (if a mesh passes through a little then some of the vertices are on the inside and then can't get out)<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: yes single side is lighter and has less instability issues<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so how do you construct a room that works with ubode?¨<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: yes if a bullet gets inside a cylinder, lets say, because of tunnel, it does come out<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: you make both side walls<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I did<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what more?<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: with normals pointing in right directions<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they do<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what more?<br />
<br>[11:24] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Was it a single mesh, with a hollow center or individual walls?<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well that is a specific issue.. we can later see your model and what is its problem<br />
<br>[11:25] Misterblue Waves: one-sided collisions work for prims because there is always an 'inside' to the prim (a hollow cylinder has an inside and outside mesh, for instance)<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: even a single mesh with a hollow center can fail collide from one side<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: prims have faces all around<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: always<br />
<br>[11:25] Misterblue Waves: mesh houses are a new thing since one can have only a single mesh for a wall rather than a flattened box<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is a single mesh?<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a wall is a box made of mesh faces, right?<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: i did add some code that allows avatars to collide double side.<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: but.. may not work all the time<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: ( and has instabilities on same edges )<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is probably what I am seeing<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: i had a model from seth i used to test that<br />
<br>[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: particularly if the collision direction is facing south<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: but to be safe, there should be 2 surfaces<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are<br />
<br>[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll send you an example after<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: you can rez it here<br />
<br>[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, I know some people that have made mesh houses. They find that you may have to move or rotate the house to get the physics working properly.<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: well we had a nasty surprise with .net4.8<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: as now, its new JIT fails to handle our OSD code, in Release more<br />
<br>[11:31] George Equus: Came by to ask a question, but can wait till current topic is done :)<br />
<br>[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all right<br />
<br>[11:32] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Yeah that .Net issue is a pain ....<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, If you disappeared to test moving or rotating, did it help?<br />
<br>[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where to rezz?<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: the only workaround for now is to disable that new JIT<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Apparently you don't need to move it much.<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: err what is the mantis where i said how to disable the new JIT ?? :)<br />
<br>[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, just don't drop the house on my head. I've had that done to me enough. I've even done it to myself. :)<br />
<br>[11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8549<br />
<br>[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you walk in the door and the opposing wall is facing south, you can walk through it<br />
<br>[11:35] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8549#c35475 <-- the workaround for .net4.8 ( as win10 1903 installs ) is there<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now you guys can copy it<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is all one mesh with a proper physics model<br />
<br>[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Where is the setting to make Firestorm render the physics model?<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Develop Render metadata probably<br />
<br>[11:36] Ubit Umarov: yeack hard to see the normals here :)<br />
<br>[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't know the object so the browser doesn't show me whether physics is set on the model.<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is set top prim<br />
<br>[11:37] George Equus: I helped myself. nice bunker :) Thanks Gavin<br />
<br>[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can move it now too<br />
<br>[11:38] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I just rezzed one outside and all the walls are solid from inside and out<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they should be :-)<br />
<br>[11:40] Ubit Umarov: so what is the problem with this ?<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we can try and rotate it 90 deg<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: see no issues<br />
<br>[11:41] Ubit Umarov: inside walls and ceiling collide fine<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: hmm clastrophobic.. may i leave now ? :)<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe<br />
<br>[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, this is Hotel California<br />
<br>[11:42] Ubit Umarov: camera is also limited to inside<br />
<br>[11:43] Ubit Umarov: so rays also doing right collisions<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: well, then is most be something back at my place<br />
<br>[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thanks for the testing<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: you did select ubodemeshmerizer also right ?<br />
<br>[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I did<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well don't know<br />
<br>[11:44] Ubit Umarov: even as i said, avatars do double side collisions on most meshes now<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: ( or get stuck badly :p )<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: well the mesh must have a opening..<br />
<br>[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the ceiling height is too low and you stand up, you might get stuck in the ceiling<br />
<br>[11:45] Ubit Umarov: hmm i had that Seth thing somewhere<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: well seen that mantis with the workaround for .net4.8 ?<br />
<br>[11:47] Ubit Umarov: i hope ms does fix this :(<br />
<br>[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mantis #?<br />
<br>[11:47] Bill Blight: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8549<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: If we are ready for a new topic, George has a question.<br />
<br>[11:48] Ubit Umarov: if possible just stay on .net 4.7.2,,,<br />
<br>[11:48] Bill Blight: It's not a specific windows 1903 issue, it is a .Net update issue, I was on 1903 through the insider program and did not have the issue, took the .Net update and now have the issue ..<br />
<br>[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok. Good to know. My laptop is offering up 1903.<br />
<br>[11:49] George Equus: About water level on a region. Seems ther is only one command >set water height and that will apparently lover all water in one SIM. Is there a way to lower level on just a single region?<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: yeah im on win10 1809 but did updated .net so i could see the issue<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill Blight: if you happen to have KB4486153 you can try uninstalling it<br />
<br>[11:50] Bill Blight: but I think you will not have that if you took the full 1903 update<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: sim == region<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: George, did you select the region you wanted to operate on before issueing the command?<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can do a single region from the viewer<br />
<br>[11:50] George Equus: SIM 25 regions, mostly water<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have sims with different water levels in the regions running on the sim<br />
<br>[11:51] George Equus: Not tried the command yet :)<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: does it not work if you , Change region to that region?<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: region/estate<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Terrain<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: water height<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is per region<br />
<br>[11:51] Bill Blight: There is also an os function that does it<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: physics works fine<br />
<br>[11:52] George Equus: Say specifically on the server command page that this command will affect entire sim that is all regions as I understand it<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I would expect that as long as you make sure to set the region you want to alter before using the command it would operate only on that one region for an instance running multiple regions.<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed Andrew<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: not if you change region to that region, commands only affect that region<br />
<br>[11:52] Bill Blight: if region is root, then it is going to affect all regions in that instance<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed Andrew<br />
<br>[11:53] Bill Blight: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsSetRegionWaterHeight<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think that second "agreed" was meant for Bill.<br />
<br>[11:53] George Equus: OK, I will test with the usual procedure then, first change to the region and see what happens on the others<br />
<br>[11:54] Bill Blight: if you are root in an instance affect all regions<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: better wear a breathing suite<br />
<br>[11:54] Bill Blight: hehe<br />
<br>[11:54] Ubit Umarov: :)<br />
<br>[11:55] George Equus: got scuba gear handy<br />
<br>[11:55] George Equus: thanks<br />
<br>[11:55] Bill Blight: hehe<br />
<br>[11:55] Bill Blight: flooding us<br />
<br>[11:56] Bill Blight: glub glub<br />
<br>[11:56] George Equus: you beat me to it... lol<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Bah. I wish there was a search for the built-in commands. I have trouble finding some of them. I don't remember where the command is located for setting the region on which you wish to alter.<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Good thing we have a lifeguard nearby.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: nice now in summer..<br />
<br>[11:56] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: change region<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: The lifeguard is still above water.<br />
<br>[11:57] George Equus: Got the command from http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Server_Commands but don't know how relevant and up to date that page is.<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight flüstert: yes that is right, but as it says on that page ..<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: change region <region name> - subsequent commands apply only to the specified region. If region name is "root" then all regions are selected<br />
<br>[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, what category does that command fall under?<br />
<br>[11:58] George Equus: Got that Bill, thanks<br />
<br>[11:58] George Equus: phew..<br />
<br>[11:58] George Equus: General<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: hmm... I thought I checked General.<br />
<br>[11:59] Bill Blight: yes it is general<br />
<br>[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: To me, it would make more sense for it to be under Regions.<br />
<br>[11:59] Bill Blight: set water height # - sets the height simulator wide (rather than single regions as viewer tools do).<br />
<br>[12:00] George Equus: Should be under Land perhaps? and with clarification that can be used on individual regions, if that is indeed the case now<br />
<br>[12:00] Bill Blight: well, regardless where it is if you read how the commands are supposed to work it is prety clear<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: ah. That indicates that selecting a region to operate on still wouldn't help if water level is changed at the console.<br />
<br>[12:01] Bill Blight: but that individual definition needs touched<br />
<br>[12:01] George Equus: "(rather than single regions as viewer tools do)." ??<br />
<br>[12:01] George Equus: viewer tools?<br />
<br>[12:02] Bill Blight: done<br />
<br>[12:02] Bill Blight: set water height # - sets the height simulator wide or single region if you use change region.<br />
<br>[12:03] Ubit Umarov: m_module.Scene.AddCommand("Regions", m_module, "set water height",<br />
<br> "set water height <height> [<x>] [<y>]",<br />
<br> "Sets the water height in meters. If <x> and <y> are specified, it will only set it on regions with a matching coordinate. " +<br />
<br> "Specify -1 in <x> or <y> to wildcard that coordinate.",<br />
<br> consoleSetWaterHeight);<br />
<br>[12:04] George Equus: Thanks for all info on this.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: odd only see it changing one region<br />
<br>[12:05] George Equus: I should play around more with environment I guess just to get familiar<br />
<br>[12:06] Bill Blight: the os function might be your best bet<br />
<br>[12:06] Bill Blight: it does only change the region it is run on<br />
<br>[12:06] Bill Blight: a tad bit safer<br />
<br>[12:07] George Equus: always keep current backups in case I do some really bad stuff it happens lol<br />
<br>[12:08] Bill Blight: well water height is not gonna break much , just have to dry some things out if you screw up ... LOL<br />
<br>[12:08] George Equus: Is the trend of the world anyway...<br />
<br>[12:08] George Equus: the RW'<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: We have past the top of the hour. Is there any other last minute items for today?<br />
<br>[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: George, did you have any other questions?<br />
<br>[12:10] George Equus: List long as my arm but those can wait :)<br />
<br>[12:11] George Equus: Kidding<br />
<br>[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. You can take over from Kayaker who isn't here today. He often has a lot of questions. ;)<br />
<br>[12:11] George Equus: lol.maybe bit more pertinent for a dev meet than mine I suspect<br />
<br>[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: If they are somehow related to OpenSim they are pertinent.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-07-16T19:20:23Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2017-12-19<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-11-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-10-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-07-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-06-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-05-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-04-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-02-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2017-01-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-12-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-09-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-06-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-05-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-04-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-03-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-12-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
<br />
Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-07-09Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-092019-07-09T18:43:31Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Several other people haven't appeared yet today. I'll wait two more minutes and then we can start. <br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmi..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Several other people haven't appeared yet today. I'll wait two more minutes and then we can start.<br />
<br>[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is summer<br />
<br>[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It seems like it is just the five of us for today. Did anyone have any questions/comments/issues? If not we can wrap this up very early and go outside and enjoy the nice weather.<br />
<br>[11:14] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Other than Microsoft breaking things, don't think much is up on the opensim front ..<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What did the fine folks at Microsoft break?<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we fixed the Max avatar issue in the viewers<br />
<br>[11:15] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I think that is going to be a "wait and see" on the microsoft front<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was fixed opensim side<br />
<br>[11:15] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yes thanks for looking into that Gavin<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What was the symptom of the breakage?<br />
<br>[11:15] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: look at the Mantis Andrew, a few things with the 1903 windows 10 update<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: after updating the field in the viewer once it started showing -1<br />
<br>[11:16] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: MOAP, MySQL , zlib a few things<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Which mantis number?<br />
<br>[11:17] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: 8554,8558,8559.8549,8557<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the MOAP thingy...<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I actually think it is a viewer issue because LL has made a new version of the embedded Chrome<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's quite a few reports.<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which no viewer has taken so far<br />
<br>[11:18] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I'm on the insider program so I'm already pas that update, not had any issues with my windows test regions ..<br />
<br>[11:18] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: well it is not just MOAP<br />
<br>[11:19] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: few other things are hinky with 1903<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the group update isse might also have LL fixes<br />
<br>[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm not sure what version of Windows I have on my laptop.<br />
<br>[11:19] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Ubit<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: thing is it all still works fine on Linux servers<br />
<br>[11:20] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: so it is something MS broke<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My laptop just tells me I'm on Win 10 but I already knew that.<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: go to settings, updates and... then there is a build info<br />
<br>[11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yep<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Windows 7 and earlier pushed messages and pop-ups all over the place to tell you there were new updates as you were in process of installing them<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so MS telling you something you already knew is noting new<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, right. The update page.<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org grins at Gavin.<br />
<br>[11:24] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: PC Settings > System > About<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( gavin always good to tell andrew he is on this or that.. )<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm on 1809<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tested Dayturn on 1903 and did to find anything specific, but I will have to test again<br />
<br>[11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: The problems occur when regions are running on Windows<br />
<br>[11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: not with viewers<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't have that to test with<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good to know, Bill.<br />
<br>[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm not likely to see the problem as I'm not using Windows to run regions.<br />
<br>[11:28] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: That is in those Mantis' problems are occurring with regions on 1903 after the update<br />
<br>[11:29] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: But there are tons of reports on 1903 being broken, quick google search shows that<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and same where able to rollback to 1809 and things worked ok again<br />
<br>[11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: there was an update to 1903 for people in the insider program I already have that, my test regions ran fine<br />
<br>[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on the bright side I see a lot of complaints that copybot viewers no longer work in SL<br />
<br>[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: "they cannot get their Bento anims"<br />
<br>[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's good.<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure is<br />
<br>[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: As we have so few of us here today if there isn't any particular OS topic anyone wants to talk about I'll call this meeting to a close.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-07-09T18:42:59Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<!-- <br />
Don't forget to add the new chat log to [[Category:Office Hour Logs]] !<br />
Also, wrap the log in <pre></pre> tags, so that you don't have to add so many <br /> tags.<br />
--><br />
<!-- I'd do if I knew how to... and the br-tags are added to make long lines more readable <pre> would make you scroll sideways very often --><br />
<!-- Have a look at previous chat logs. I have added all of them to that category, and wrapped it in <pre> tags. --><br />
<!-- I'm back to adding those br-Tags. I got a "feature request" to make it more readable on mobile devices. And since it is just a mere call to sed ;-) --><br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-06-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-05-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-03-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2019-01-08]]<br />
* No meeting was held on 2018-12-25<br />
* No meeting was held on 2019-01-08<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-12-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-23]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-16]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-09]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-02]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-25]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-18]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-11]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-09-04]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-28]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-21]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-14]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-08-07]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-26]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-12]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-05]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-29]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-22]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-15]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-08]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-05-01]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-03-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-06]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-30]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-23]]<br />
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<br />
== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
<br />
* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2019-07-02Chat log from the meeting on 2019-07-022019-07-02T19:20:19Z<p>Sheera Khan: Created page with "[11:01] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... I'm here on time. I got here before some of the other regular attendees. :) <br>[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I too..."</p>
<hr />
<div>[11:01] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... I'm here on time. I got here before some of the other regular attendees. :)<br />
<br>[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I took delivery of one of the new Raspberry Pi 4 today<br />
<br>[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: already have a var up and running on it<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, quick! look over there!<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where?<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org swipes Gavin's Pi 4 while he isn't looking.<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org grins<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Which version did you get?<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was quite a bit faster than the previous model<br />
<br>[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I could only get the 2 GB model<br />
<br>[11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yea, that's what I've heard.<br />
<br>[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've been thinking about getting a 4GB model.<br />
<br>[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: this was just a test<br />
<br>[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but yes<br />
<br>[11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm not 100% sure but I think an 8GB version may be due out by end of year.<br />
<br>[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is running actually Debian Buster which only has official release on July 7<br />
<br>[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would think they will come with an updated model again in a year or so<br />
<br>[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it actually managed to compile opensim on its own this time<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, 2.5A or 3A power supply?<br />
<br>[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: before I had built it on another machine and copied over<br />
<br>[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Nice.<br />
<br>[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I feed it over POE<br />
<br>[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from a switch<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Nebadon has run OpenSim on a Pi 3. You shouldn't have any trouble running it on the 4.<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the POE HAT is what is needed<br />
<br>[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What are you doing that would require that?<br />
<br>[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I already have a public VAR running on a 3B+<br />
<br>[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: powering it over ethernet<br />
<br>[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I'll probably make up a procedure and publish, plus a repository where the libraries that must be compiled for ARM is included<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods<br />
<br>[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sounds good.<br />
<br>[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I wonder if some people are away this week due to the Canada Day and/or July 4th holidays?<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: possibly<br />
<br>[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: don't think that is of any concern of Ubit<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he might have been struck by the European heatwave though<br />
<br>[11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It has gotten a bit warm over there?<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in the south<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: here it is very cold<br />
<br>[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was snow in the mountains from south to north this morning<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It feels like summer here at last.<br />
<br>[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there he is<br />
<br>[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: We can start now. A lot of other people must be away for the holidays this week.<br />
<br>[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Who would like to kick things off this week?<br />
<br>[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: except for the PI there is not much new<br />
<br>[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a new viewer build out at the usual place https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/<br />
<br>[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Anything in particular worth mentioning about the latest version of the viewer?<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is an update to the cache that should lead to fewer stalls<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: updates to the renderer<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tested it on Kitely again, and it (mostly) works<br />
<br>[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which it hasn't for over a year<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some older meses don't render, but new stuff does<br />
<br>[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's progress.<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah<br />
<br>[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is also a small update to VAR region support in that copy and paste of object positions works as expected<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: we are talking about what viewer?<br />
<br>[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn<br />
<br>[11:19] Ubit Umarov: ok<br />
<br>[11:20] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Gavin -- I will try out your viewer on Kitely<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: please do<br />
<br>[11:20] Ubit Umarov: improvements specific to it or already on other viewers like fs ?<br />
<br>[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to set to not use http textures for it to work<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: specific to it<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: errr udp textures? not that good now :)<br />
<br>[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kitely ...<br />
<br>[11:21] Ubit Umarov: even 0.8x does http<br />
<br>[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is the only grid I have tested on where you have to do that<br />
<br>[11:22] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: could be something Kitely changed<br />
<br>[11:22] Ubit Umarov: and even on 0.8 should be a bit faster then lludp texture transfer, at least cleaner<br />
<br>[11:23] Ubit Umarov: try disable http pipeline there<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: At the meeting in Kitely this past weekend I heard that they have over 400 patches in the version of 0.8.2 they are running.<br />
<br>[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am not going to make any special effort for Kitely whne it works across the board elsewhere<br />
<br>[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was amazed they have made so many patches. I wonder what they are for and how many (if any) are not needed due to changes in the 0.9 code base.<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: 0.8 does not do httppipeline or even keepalive, unless they did fix it there<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably a lot for all the export stuff<br />
<br>[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you turn off http-pipeline in the viewer it just makes a mess on Kitely<br />
<br>[11:24] Ubit Umarov: its to suport their things andrew, regions full shutdown when not in use, market, etc<br />
<br>[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'll have to ask Ilan about it the next time I see him.<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: 0.8 does not do http pipeline as i said, not even did keepalive well<br />
<br>[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That would make sense. It is still a lot of changes they may have to reapply to 0.9 if it just (mainly?) to support their grid infrastructure.<br />
<br>[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I made a short note on Dayturn on Kitely https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?threads/using-dayturn-viewer-on-kitely.107/<br />
<br>[11:25] Ubit Umarov: but ask them about that on their fork, mb they improved it<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: don't think they will ever use 0.9<br />
<br>[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably not<br />
<br>[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There was some talk on the weekend about using 0.9<br />
<br>[11:26] Ubit Umarov: they even had plans to change to something totaly diferent ?<br />
<br>[11:26] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ilan is considering 0.9 now<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: guess from that new thing philip linden is doing ( they already made code for it ??)<br />
<br>[11:27] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: they may have a big customer that wants 0.9<br />
<br>[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well they had a big customer that wanted old ode :)<br />
<br>[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: really? :P<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: good i keept it even omn 0.9 :(<br />
<br>[11:28] Ubit Umarov: even on 0.9 :)<br />
<br>[11:28] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: True, Ubit --<br />
<br>[11:29] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes, really, Andrew<br />
<br>[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well we are around if they need any help, or even have sugestions to 0.9 changes<br />
<br>[11:29] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: This is connected with their private grid setup<br />
<br>[11:30] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: they are getting interest on this<br />
<br>[11:30] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: from educators<br />
<br>[11:30] Ubit Umarov: good :)<br />
<br>[11:31] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: In principle, they could offer optional 0.9 and 0.8<br />
<br>[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods<br />
<br>[11:32] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: as a transition<br />
<br>[11:32] Ubit Umarov: fred does that on the dream thing i think<br />
<br>[11:32] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The VPG brings in big customers<br />
<br>[11:33] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I think they have at least 150 regions in VPG<br />
<br>[11:34] Ubit Umarov: nice<br />
<br>[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Not bad considering the VPG hasn't been available for that long.<br />
<br>[11:35] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: And I am guessing one VPG has about 50 regions<br />
<br>[11:37] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Moment of silence for SL<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL is up in arms over the latest update to their terms<br />
<br>[11:38] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: SL has shot themselves in the virtual foot, again<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: might see some more refugees from there after Aug 1<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: oh?<br />
<br>[11:38] Ubit Umarov: what did they changed?<br />
<br>[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually they have to do something because of US regulations<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and Globit will have to do the same type of change<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they will transfer all payment in USD to a subsidiary<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: add new fees<br />
<br>[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have averyone approve a new TOS or they are out<br />
<br>[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and you have to send them proof of identity to cash out<br />
<br>[11:40] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: gloebit already being a stand alone company , pretty much is ok .. They may have to collect more info if your balance is over X ammount<br />
<br>[11:46] Ubit Umarov: you lost a lot of silence :)<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but Internet has some glitches today<br />
<br>[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: silence<br />
<br>[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I thought they already dealt with that some time ago.<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, one thing<br />
<br>[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: go ahead, Gavin<br />
<br>[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tried both on my viewer and FS that did not quite work<br />
<br>[11:49] Ubit Umarov: what?<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In the Region section for the viewer I changed number of agents from the default 40 to another number<br />
<br>[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it acutally wrote the change to the db, but after that it just displayed a veired -1<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: i seen that and looks like viewer thing<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it was not possible to update it any more, not even after logging out or restarting the viewer<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the region I mean<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so some strange interaction there<br />
<br>[11:50] Ubit Umarov: regions never tell -1 to viewer<br />
<br>[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like an odd bug.<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has anyone else tested it and found it to work OK?<br />
<br>[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was very strange<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: viewer just changes to -1 not asking region<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: no idea why also<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you have seen it before?<br />
<br>[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks flüstert: What did you change it to instead of 40?<br />
<br>[11:51] Ubit Umarov: yes<br />
<br>[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right<br />
<br>[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: need to investigate that then<br />
<br>[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, What did you change it to instead of 40?<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 10<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the Pi 3b+ region<br />
<br>[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Not a problem with an overflow of the variable type that would hold the value.<br />
<br>[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'm going to test some older versions to see if it ever worked<br />
<br>[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there has been quite a few changes to that code in the viewer lately and it could be something there<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have taken fewer of those changes than FS have<br />
<br>[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Let us know what you find.<br />
<br>[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure<br />
<br>[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Almost the top of the hour.<br />
<br>[11:56] Ubit Umarov: just tested with older singu and worked ok<br />
<br>[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am pretty sure it has worked before<br />
<br>[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I hope any of you who are in Canada enjoy the Canada Day festivities yesterday. To the Americans, I hope you have a happy and safe Fourth of July.<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: Who doesn't love a day full of small explosives<br />
<br>[11:57] Bill Blight: lol<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: fs as soon i type a new number it changes to -1 at same time it makes Apply visible<br />
<br>[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like a certain president will pull out the big explosives<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: clear a viewer issue<br />
<br>[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't recall hearing any of the fireworks going off yesterday. I can usually hear them from one of two places near me that have big fireworks displays.<br />
<br>[11:58] Ubit Umarov: no comms to region on that<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it wrote the first change to the DB<br />
<br>[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then displayed -1 and goofed up completely after<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: guess some bug reading the number from the number entry<br />
<br>[11:59] Ubit Umarov: i can't test at sl :p<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: me neither<br />
<br>[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: It does some a bit like that.<br />
<br>[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not even on Aditi<br />
<br>[12:00] Ubit Umarov: yeap i put a new number, and as soom i select other thing on the dialog it puts -1 again<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just recompiled bulletsim for the PI 4<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Misterblue, I was just about to wrap up the meeting for today. Did you have any comments or questions?<br />
<br>[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so will test it after<br />
<br>[12:01] Misterblue Waves: no questions from me... I just sat down at my computer and saw the meeting note... that usually doesn't happen<br />
<br>[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, np.<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks ruft: Gavin, which version of mono are you using on the Pi?<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one sec<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: bah. Lazy fingers keep having either shift or ctrl down while I'm hitting enter. :P<br />
<br>[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: version 5.20.1.19<br />
<br>[12:02] Misterblue Waves: Cuga Rajal says there is a problem with vehicles under BulletSim... haven't changed anything so don't know what that is<br />
<br>[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: At least I finally figured out the keyboard shortcut for shouting and whispering. :)<br />
<br>[12:03] Misterblue Waves: @Gavin: BulletSim on RPi4... cool... haven't gotten mine yet :)<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got mine today<br />
<br>[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Misterblue, That is a pretty open ended statement. They would have to provide more information about how they are implementing vehicles.<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a waitlist for the 4GB model<br />
<br>[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so only 2GB<br />
<br>[12:04] Misterblue Waves: Cuga says: " If a flattened cube prim on the ground has tapered front and rear edge, as you normally want for land vehicles, there's a force rolling it to the side, making it un-driveable. "<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: The store here in Canada is out of the 2GB model until today, IIRC. The 4GB model is another couple weeks away.<br />
<br>[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: we do not want that prim for vehicles.. thats a mesh<br />
<br>[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Misterblue, that is an interesting problem.<br />
<br>[12:04] Ubit Umarov: guess<br />
<br>[12:05] Misterblue Waves: could be some oddity in the meshing of the tapered prim<br />
<br>[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Just use the vehicle in an oval race track with banked sides ;)<br />
<br>[12:05] Ubit Umarov: well thats odd, a lot of ppl did use that kinds of prim<br />
<br>[12:06] Misterblue Waves: @Ubit: you been messing with meshing? Or has libOMV been updated lately?<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: did not touch normal Meshmerizer code<br />
<br>[12:06] Ubit Umarov: lib omv had changes, but don't think its used on that<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: i mean to gen the mesh<br />
<br>[12:07] Ubit Umarov: old Meshmerizer does that<br />
<br>[12:07] Misterblue Waves: have considered breaking up libOMV like Cinder did for libreOMV (move to .NET Standard, etc) but that pile of code is a tangled web<br />
<br>[12:08] Ubit Umarov: remember we are using the version at https://bitbucket.org/opensimulator/<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: see no reason to do as cinder did, specially .net standard<br />
<br>[12:09] Ubit Umarov: at least for now<br />
<br>[12:09] Misterblue Waves: hard to know where the real repositories are... there maybe should be a note the the front page of opensimulator.org about where are the sources are<br />
<br>[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good idea<br />
<br>[12:10] Misterblue Waves: only need to do all that if you want the NuGet packages<br />
<br>[12:10] Misterblue Waves: but I don't see OpenSimulator embracing those any time soon :)<br />
<br>[12:10] Ubit Umarov: and we do want NuGet ? :)<br />
<br>[12:11] Misterblue Waves: The Halcyon folks have several tools that they include libreOMV as NuGet packages... makes it easier for them, I guess<br />
<br>[12:11] Ubit Umarov: possible<br />
<br>[12:12] Ubit Umarov: well if they use libre, they kinda have 2 :)<br />
<br>[12:13] Misterblue Waves: I might be checking in some event enhancements over the next month... working on some modules and might need some events out of the simulator<br />
<br>[12:14] Misterblue Waves: how is the new script engine coming? Is it a replacement yet?<br />
<br>[12:14] Ubit Umarov: oops i still have that mantis issue on memory usage accounting<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: but several ppl are now using it<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: like bill<br />
<br>[12:15] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: I only use YEngine on Mobius<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: and royale.Mobian<br />
<br>[12:15] Ubit Umarov: ahh :)<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: its extensions are still "undefined" things like classes etc.. i don't like them<br />
<br>[12:17] Ubit Umarov: but they are needed on current implementation of arrays.. grrrr<br />
<br />
[[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>Sheera Khanhttp://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hoursOffice hours2019-07-02T19:14:28Z<p>Sheera Khan: /* Logs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Quicklinks}}<br />
<br /><br />
<br />
= Meetings =<br />
<br />
OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project<br />
<br />
== Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br />
This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focused, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br />
<br />
In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br />
<br />
* First, developers are encouraged to bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br />
* Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br />
<br />
At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br />
<br />
'''This meeting is scheduled for 11:00 grid time (11:00 PT, 14:00 ET, 19:00 UTC, 20:00 CET) at Dev&nbsp;Outreach in OSGrid (osgrid.org). http://hg.osgrid.org:80:Dev&nbsp;Outreach'''<br />
<br />
== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br />
* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br />
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Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br />
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== Saturday - '''Q&A Hour''' ==<br />
'''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''<br /><br />
This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then "Office Hour" and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br />
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* First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br />
* Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br />
* third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br />
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'''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br />
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== Logs ==<br />
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* [[Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-27]]<br />
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[[Category:Development]]<br />
[[Category:Office Hours]]</div>Sheera Khan