OpenSimulator - User contributions [en]

Configuring Regions

2009-12-28T23:04:36Z

Markuser: Category:Configuration

==OpenSim 0.6.7 and later==
By default, regions in OpenSim 0.6.7 and later are configured in a file named Regions.ini in the bin/Regions directory. If you started a completely fresh installation of OpenSim, it will ask you a series of questions to set up your first region.

Here's an example of a Regions.ini

[Big Fat Region]
RegionUUID = 5ce85740-6460-43d3-ba4c-29207b010072
Location = 1000,1000
InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0
InternalPort = 9000
AllowAlternatePorts = False
ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2
MasterAvatarFirstName = Justin
MasterAvatarLastName = Clark-Casey
MasterAvatarSandboxPassword = yeahokay

Here's a line by line breakdown

'''[Big Fat Region]''' - The name of the region, in this case Big Fat Region.

'''RegionUUID''' - The unique ID of the region. It has to be in this UUID format and must be unique with respect to any other regions that you are running

'''Location''' - The location of the region on the grid.

'''InternalAddress''' - INSTRUCTIONS TODO. I recommend leaving this as 0.0.0.0

'''InternalPort''' - The port which viewers will use to log in to this region. It must be accessible from the machine on which the viewer is running. If you're running multiple regions, each must use a unique port number.

'''AllowAlternatePorts''' - TODO UNKNOWN. Leave as the default False.

'''ExternalHostName''' - This is the address which viewers will use to log in to this region. It must be accessible from the machine on which the viewer is running. In this case it's 192.168.1.2 because I'm running both viewer and simulator on a LAN. If you wanted people to be able to connect to this simulator over the Internet then you would need to provide an accessible web address (e.g. mylovelysim.com).

'''MasterAvatarFirstName''' - The master avatar name. TODO MORE INSTRUCTIONS. Otherwise don't worry about this.

'''MasterAvatarLastName''' - The master avatar last name. TODO MORE INSTRUCTIONS. Otherwise don't worry about this.

'''MasterAvatarSandboxPassword''' - TODO MORE INSTRUCTIONS. Otherwise don't worry about this.

If you want to add another region you can

* enter another section in Regions.ini
* create another separate .ini file in bin/Regions
* create an old format OpenSim xml file (these still work with OpenSim 0.6.7)
* or use the create region command on the region console (I don't recommend this since it seems to be a bit buggy in 0.6.7).

Here's an example where a second region has been added to Regions.ini

[Big Fat Region]
RegionUUID = 5ce85740-6460-43d3-ba4c-29207b010072
Location = 1000,1000
InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0
InternalPort = 9000
AllowAlternatePorts = False
ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2
MasterAvatarFirstName = Justin
MasterAvatarLastName = Clark-Casey
MasterAvatarSandboxPassword = yeahokay
 
[Greek Wedding]
RegionUUID = 5c445740-6460-43d3-ba4c-444444445555
Location = 1000,1001
InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0
InternalPort = 9001
AllowAlternatePorts = False
ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2
MasterAvatarFirstName = Justin
MasterAvatarLastName = Clark-Casey
MasterAvatarSandboxPassword = yeahokay

As you can see, the Second region is named Greek Wedding and has a different UUID. It has a different location (1000,1001) and a different InternalPort (9001). Other than that, the details are the same.

To create a new UUID you can either tweak an existing one by hand (e.g. by changing one character so that the new one is in the range [0-9][A-F] or a generator can be found at [http://www.famkruithof.net/uuid/uuidgen uuidgen webpage]. On Unix, you can also use the <tt>uuidgen</tt> command.

==OpenSim 0.6.6 and earlier==
A powerful region generator is available at: [[RegionGenerator]]

For running multiple regions on the same box, you simply make multiple copies of the 'default.xml' file inside the <tt>bin/Regions/</tt> directory. You can do this by typing <tt>create region</tt> at the OpenSim command prompt, using the script <tt>make.php</tt> in <tt>share/regions</tt>, or you can generate the files by hand.

If you want to create the files by hand:

:first copy the default.xml file in the <tt>bin/Regions</tt> directory, and name them anything you want (I name mine region.x.y.xml, where region is the name of the region, and x and y are the grid coords.)
:Open each xml file and edit the uuid (a generator can be found at [http://www.famkruithof.net/uuid/uuidgen uuidgen webpage] or on unix, use the uuidgen command), region name, x & y positions, and internal IP port.

'''IMPORTANT!''' Regardless of the method you use to create your new region, the UUID, name, and grid coordinates ''must'' be unique for each region on a grid. The port assignment must be unique for each region that is running on a particular machine. The internal IP ''address'' and external host name must be the same for all regions.

Note that <tt>sim_location_x</tt> and <tt>sim_location_y</tt> should be adjacent integers if you want your regions to be adjacent, so you can run back and forth between them. '''IMPORTANT: THESE GRID COORDINATES ARE ''NOT'' IN METERS. THEY ARE SIM POSITIONS.''' (1000, 1000) is next to (1001,1000), (1000, 1001), and so forth. 1256, 2000, 2048 and similar values are '''not''' adjacent to 1000, they are very far away, so you would not see your sims from one another.

Once you have 2 or more xml files in the bin/Regions folder, running a ''single'' copy of <tt>OpenSim.exe</tt> will start up all of your sims! If you come across any errors, there is most likely an error in your xml files.

[[Category:Configuration]]

OSSL TextureDrawing

2009-12-28T23:01:10Z

Markuser: Category:Scripting

__NOTOC__
{{Template:Quicklinks}}
 

==General Capabilities==

The OSSL Texture Drawing functions allow the scripter to dynamically generate a texture on the fly, from within the context of an script. (It can be written in LSL, C# or any other supported scripting language.)

The scripting language supports text and images, as well as three simple drawing primitives: line, rectangle and ellipse. Color and pen attributes are included. Font, size and style are supported for text. An image is specified as an URL.

A drawing script can be directly specified in the texture drawing language, or can be built by using helper functions in the scripting language. Examples of both approaches are shown below.

Several extra parameters are available for the texture rendering operation. These include the height and width of the texture, as well as the background color and alpha value. A statement terminator can also be specified.

'''LSL Helper Functions'''

<source lang="lsl">

string osMovePen(string drawList, int x, int y);
string osDrawLine(string drawList, int startX, int startY, int endX, int endY);
string osDrawLine(string drawList, int endX, int endY);
string osDrawText(string drawList, string text);
string osDrawEllipse(string drawList, int width, int height);
string osDrawRectangle(string drawList, int width, int height);
string osDrawFilledRectangle(string drawList, int width, int height);
string osDrawPolygon(string drawList, LSL_List x, LSL_List y);
string osSetFontSize(string drawList, int fontSize);
string osSetPenSize(string drawList, int penSize);
string osSetPenColour(string drawList, string colour);
string osSetPenCap(string drawList, string direction, string type);
string osDrawImage(string drawList, int width, int height, string imageUrl);
</source>
----

'''C# Code Example'''
<source lang="lsl">
//cs
public void default_event_state_entry()
{
string drawList = "";
drawList = osDrawLine (drawList, 10,20,240,20);
drawList = osMovePen (drawList, 50,100);
drawList = osDrawImage(drawList, 100,100,"http://opensimulator.org/images/d/de/Opensim_Wright_Plaza.jpg" );
drawList = osSetPenSize (drawList, 1);
drawList = osSetPenCap(drawList, "end", "arrow");
drawList = osMovePen (drawList, 50,70);
drawList = osDrawEllipse (drawList, 20,20);
drawList = osMovePen(drawList, 90,70);
drawList = osDrawRectangle (drawList, 20,20 );
drawList = osMovePen (drawList,130,70);
drawList = osDrawFilledRectangle(drawList, 20,20);
drawList = osDrawPolygon(drawList, [50,100,150], [50,100,50]);
drawList = osDrawFilledPolygon(drawList, ["50","100","150"], ["50","100","50"]); // It works with integers, float or string as the x and y points
drawList = osSetFontSize (drawList, 12 );
drawList = osMovePen (drawList,15,32);

string regionName = llGetRegionName();
drawList = osDrawText (drawList, "Hello and welcome to " + regionName );

drawList = osSetFontSize (drawList, 7);
drawList = osSetPenColour (drawList, "blue");
drawList = osMovePen (drawList, 70,220);
drawList = osDrawText (drawList, "The End");
osSetDynamicTextureData("", "vector", drawList, "", 0);
}
</source>

==OS Dynamic Texture Language==

Many of the OSSL drawing functions are convenience functions to help build the command line for the osSetDynamicTextureData data parameter. You may find it easier to build the string yourself using the drawing commands directly. Do this by declaring a string then appending sets of commands and parameters until it is ready. Each command is separated by a semi-colon ";". Additional parameters may be set for the image with the extraParams parameter.

;osSetDynamicTextureData(string dynamicID, string contentType, string data, string extraParams, int timer)

:*dynamicID not used yet – send “”
:*contentType use “vector” for drawing commands or use “image” for loadurl
:*data the graphics commands in the string with the format of: “MoveTo 20, 20; FillRectangle 60, 60;”;
:*extraParams width, height, alpha, bgcolour, altdatadelim
:*timer set an update interval

===Commands (data)===
;MoveTo int x, int y;
:Places the brush at the x/y coordinate

;LineTo int x,int y;
:Draws line from present pen position to the x/y coordinate

;Text string content;
:Text to write to the image

;Image float x, float y, string URL
:The x/y placement coordinates and URL of an image to load

;Rectangle float x, float y;
:Draws a rectangle with the current pen from the current pen location to the x/y coordinates

;FillRectangle float x, float y;
:Draws a filled rectangle with the current brush from the current pen location to the x/y coordinates

;Ellipse float x, float y;
:Draws an ellipse with the current brush from the current brush location to the x/y coordinates

;FontSize int size;
:The size of the font for text

;FontProp char;
:'''[B|I|U|S|R]'''

::*'''B''' Bold
::*'''I''' Italic
::*'''U''' Underline
::*'''S''' Strikeout
::*'''R''' Regular

;FontName string name;
:The name of the font to use

;PenSize float size;
:Size of the drawing pen

;PenColour string color;
:Drawing color of the pen

;PenCap string direction, string type;
:Cap of a line, consists of 3 possible directions ("start","end","both") and 4 possible types ("flat","diamond","arrow","round")

'''Example'''
<source lang="lsl">
string drawData;

drawData += "PenColour Teal; FillRectangle 1024, 512;";
drawData += "PenColour PowderBlue;";
drawData += "MoveTo 40, 30; FontSize 25; Text 2000 UTC:;";
drawData += "MoveTo 250, 30; Text Speed Build Competition;";
drawData += "MoveTo 40, 70; Text 0120 UTC:;";
drawData += "MoveTo 250, 70;Text Working On Sign;";
drawData += "MoveTo 40, 110; Text 0500 UTC:;";
drawData += "MoveTo 250, 110; Text Going To Sleep!;";
drawData += "MoveTo 40, 150; Text 0600 UTC:;";
drawData += "MoveTo 250, 150; FontProp B,I;Text Waking Up!;";
drawData += "FontProp R;";
drawData += "MoveTo 40, 190; Text Have a great day!!;";
drawData += "PenCap end,arrow; LineTo 50,250; MoveTo 50,250;";

osSetDynamicTextureData("","vector", drawData,"width:1024,height:512,alpha:254", 0);

</source>

===Extra Parameters (extraParams)===
;height
:the height for the image in pixels

;width
:the width of the image in pixels

;alpha
:the opacity of the image
::''0-255'' to set the opacity for an image with an alpha channel
::''false'' for an image with no alpha channel

;bgcolour
:the background color of the image

[[http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa358802.aspx .net colors]]

;altdatadelim
:an alternative delimiter for each parameter - useful if you want to display text that contains semicolons, for example C# or LSL code.

[[Category:Scripting]]

Scripting Documentation

2009-12-28T23:00:51Z

Markuser: Category:Scripting

__NOTOC__
{{Template:Quicklinks}}

== Overview ==

*[[ScriptEngines|New Script Engine]] - New Script Engine Transition (By Melanie_T)
*[[Scripting Languages]] - Supported Scripting Languages
*[[OSSL Proposals|OSSL Proposals]] - Suggestions for custom OSL-functions
*[[OSSL Implemented|OSSL Implemented]] - A list of OSL-functions that are available
*[[OSSL TextureDrawing|OSSL Texture Drawing Functions]] - Details of the os texture drawing functions
*[[ OSSL Enabling Functions|OSSL Enabling Functions]] - How to Enable osFunctions in your OpenSim.ini
*[[LSL Status/Functions|LSL Implemented]] - A list of LSL-functions that are available in OpenSim
*[[OS Scripting Tutorial]] - Some useful hints for scripting in OpenSim environments
*[[Non-LSL scripting]] - Information on C# and scripting in OpenSim with other languages

==About OpenSim scripting==
An important ingredient in Second Life is scripting. It is the engine that drives it all. In SL [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal LSL (Linden Scripting Language)] is the language you have to use. This language has its limitations, and is executed very slowly. But nevertheless it works and it gets the job done. Linden Lab are moving LSL scripting over to Mono in Q3 2008. 

OpenSim today supports LSL,OSL and C# scripts. But with limitations:
* Not all commands and events have been implemented. See [[LSL Status]] for details on what commands work and which don't.
* Scripts that are running cannot cross region borders.
* You cannot use loops inside your scripts. Actually you can use loops, but it will block other scripts from executing.
The OpenSim script engine compiles the LSL code down to .Net code that is JIT'ed to CPU native code. In effect this means that a LSL script in OpenSim should run faster than in Second Life. Stability and security: see [[Script_Sandbox | Script Execution Sandbox]].

==How to use scripts in OpenSim==
Have a look at the [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal LSL wiki] to learn LSL. The current procedure to get a script working in OpenSim is:
* Create a new script in inventory. (Inventory -> Create -> New Script)
* Write whatever script you want there, or copy the script contents of another script in the pre-existing OpenSim library. Check [[LSL Status]] for what commands that are supported.
* Drag the script over to the contents of an object.
* If there is an error in the script when saving or when dropped into an object an error alert is displayed for a short time. Click on the alert to display the Debug Window and the script error.
* To deactivate a script, edit the script and uncheck 'Running'. This also stops error alerts when saving scripts.
* Deleting the script from the object will not always deactivate a script. If a script is running in a prim and the script is deleted, the script may persist in the prim - which can be useful. Be sure scripts are not running when you wish to delete them.

There are still some defects:
* Line numbers in error messages may miss by 1 or 2 lines.

== How to contribute ==
The ScriptEngine is being developed by many developers. New developers are always welcome. If you want to contribute, even just a tiny little bit, have a look at the [[OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine]] page. There is a lot of developer activity on IRC ([[Contact us]]), feel free to drop in. A blog with development status can be found at [http://teddmaa.blogspot.com/ http://teddmaa.blogspot.com/].

== Additional Resources for Scripting (LSL)==
There have been many questions regarding scripts and tools for scripting lately. Presented here are a variety of Links to Resources which will help most people with Scripting LSL.

At present there is no WIKI for OSSL Functions of OpenSim Specific stuff like those available for SL, hopefully someday we will have our own but that is a monumental task in itself.

'''OspenSimulator Specific Materials:'''

http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Implemented

http://opensimulator.org/wiki/LSL_Status/Functions

'''NOTE:''' Be sure to check the Discussion Pages which is on the tabs at the top.

'''Suggested Links for LSL wikis:'''

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal

http://www.lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=HomePage

http://rpgstats.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://www.cheesefactory.us/slwm/LSL_Portal.html

Note the Tutorials, Examples & Script Libraries

'''Off-World Local LSL Editing Tools (note they do not support osFunctions)'''

LSLeditor http://www.lsleditor.org/ ** My Personal favourite

LSLplus http://lslplus.sourceforge.net/

Others are listed here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Alternate_Editors

'''Miscelaneous:'''

AutoScript, Simple & Quick Code generator for simple things (ONLINE)
http://www.hilarymason.com/blog/secondlife/autoscript-creates-lsl-scripts-without-code/

lslsnippets
http://code.google.com/p/lslsnippets/

Free offsite storage for LSL scripts up to 250k
http://www.vtoreality.com/2006/free-offsite-storage-for-lsl-scripts-up-to-250k/186/

Free SL Scripts (library)
http://www.freeslscripts.gendersquare.org/index.php

Scratch for SecondLife (Script Code generator with Nice Interface - UPDATED JUL.09.2009)
http://s4sl.blogspot.com/

Second Life Animated Texture Creator v0.4 - brought to you by Peregrine Salon
http://www.peregrinesalon.com/2009/01/05/major-upgrade-to-animated-gif-to-animated-sl-texture-conversion-tool-v04/

[[Category:Development]]
[[Category:Users]]
[[Category:Scripting]]

Configuration

2009-12-28T22:54:55Z

Markuser:

{{Template:Quicklinks}}
 
==OpenSim simulator configuration file==
The region simulator configuration is managed using a file called [[OpenSim.ini]]. This file is used regardless of whether the sim is running in standalone or grid mode. This file includes some additional configuration information from the config-include/ directory. Detailed information on the options available for setttings in this file can be found [[OpenSim.ini|here]].
Please note, that the name OpenSim.ini can be changed via command line arguments (see above). Also, note that the default download does not include an OpenSim.ini file, but rather provides an example file. To get started editing your ini file, please cd into opensim/bin/ and copy OpenSim.ini.example to OpenSim.ini.

It is also possible to distribute the inifile settings over two files. This is useful if you want to run several OpenSim processes where most of your settings are identical but some settings differ.
The master file is read first, then the inifile is read. Settings given in the inifile overrule settings given in the master file.
The master file has the same format and the same keywords as the inifile, so the same documentation applies.

==Database==
Opensim's supports the following database-engines:
* SQLite (default - a lightweight database that comes bundled with OpenSim and can be used without requiring any extra configuration. It is mostly intended to get you up and running quickly, not for production use. A few features here (such as attachment persistence) have not yet been fully implemented.)
* MySQL (fully supported). This is the recommended database for any use beyond experimentation or small standalone applications. See [[Mysql-config]] for configuration information. The OpenSim.ini.example file and other .example files will also have example MySQL configuration strings. 
* MSSQL (partially supported - some recent OpenSim features may not yet be implemented)

More information on database support can be found on the [[OpenSim Database support]] page.

==Standalone vs. Grid==
We recommend that you first get OpenSim running in standalone mode before you attempt to connect it to a grid or run your own grid. An OpenSim configuration consists of regions (run by region simulators) and 5 core backend services (which manage users, the grid, assets, inventories, and grid-wide messaging, collectively known as UGAIM).

A system running in '''standalone mode''' (that is, one with OpenSim.ini where gridmode = false) runs everything (all UGAIM services and one or more regions) in a single executable (OpenSim.exe).

In '''grid mode''', the five services ([[User Server|User]], [[Grid Server|Grid]], [[Asset Server|Asset]], [[Inventory Server|Inventory]], [[Messaging Server|Messaging]], or UGAIM) are not part of the region server. Instead, they can be run separately either on the same machine or spread out across multiple computers. In this mode, the OpenSim.exe acts solely as the region server, serving one or more regions that communicate with the core servers for asset, inventory and other data management.

Naturally, this means that running in grid mode is more complicated than running in standalone mode. It requires an understanding of UUID, X,Y location, server handshake passwords, estates and estate owners, and a couple of other settings. These require more care and patience to set up.

If you want to run a grid of your own (either private or public) you would start the core services up before connecting a region simulator. If you want to connect your region server to a grid that someone else is running, you need only start the region server in grid mode (with the necessary security keys and location information mentioned in the last paragraph).

= Running OpenSim in Standalone mode =

Running OpenSim in standalone mode is relatively straitforward because OpenSim.ini.example is already set up to achieve this. All you need to do initially is copy OpenSim.ini.example to OpenSim.ini before starting OpenSim and following the rest of the command prompts. Here's the full procedure assuming that you have a binary distribution of OpenSim (if you have a source distribution then you will need to [[Build_Instructions|build]] it first).

<ol>
<li>Go the bin/ directory in the OpenSim distribution</li>
<li>Copy OpenSim.ini.example to OpenSim.ini</li>
<li>Start OpenSim</li>
Windows
OpenSim.exe
or OpenSim.32BitLaunch.exe if using the ODE physics plugin under 64 bit Windows
Linux
mono OpenSim.exe

<li>
When you first start OpenSim in standalone mode, it will ask you several questions at the console. These will set up a single region for you. The configuration will be placed at bin/Regions/Regions.ini which you can then go and edit later on.

Many of the questions have defaults. Here are some explanations of the questions asked.

<ul>
<li>'''New region name''' - the name for your region. Don't leave this blank!</li>
<li>'''Region UUID''' - the unique ID of your region. In pretty much all cases you will want to accept the randomly generated default in the square brackets. The only time when you wouldn't is if you were trying to set up a configuration to point to pre-existing region data. But in this case you are probably better off editing the Regions.ini file directly anyway</li>
<li>'''Region Location''' - this is the location of the region on the grid. In standalone mode you can safely leave these as the default (1000,1000). If you were to set up additional regions later on in Regions.ini then they would need different grid co-ordinates (e.g. 1000,1001). OpenSim regions can be placed anywhere on a 65536 by 65536 grid.
<li>'''Internal IP address''' - This should always be 0.0.0.0 (0.0.0.0 means "listen for connections on any interface", basically a wildcard) if you want to access this server from the internet or another server on your internal network, this should be the IP address assigned to the OpenSim Server. You should also set up the server to Use a Static IP address, and not DHCP
<li>'''Internal port''' - This is the IP port for all incoming client connections. The name is a bit misleading since it will be used externally (by a Second Life viewer, for instance) as well as internally. You can make this any port you want, but it is safe to leave at the default 9000. Each region on your server must have a unique port</li>
<li>'''Allow alternate ports''' - This is currently experimental. Please leave it at the default of False.</li>
<li>'''External host name''' - If you leave this at the default 'SYSTEMIP' then this will become the LAN network address of the machine (e.g. 192.168.1.2). This is fine if you are connecting only from within your LAN. If you want to connect to it from a client on the internet, this should be the External IP Address of your router. Fully Qualified Domain Names (FQDNs) should also work.
<li>'''Master Avatar UUID''' - This is a legacy OpenSim feature and can be left at the default of 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000. Later on, you may want to change this to your own avatar's UUID in Regions.ini if you have problems editing terrain.</li>
<li>'''Master Avatar first name''' - This is an alternative way of specifying the master avatar by avatar name rather than UUID. If you press enter here then both this field and the last name field will be left blank. Accepting the blank default is fine - this can always be changed later in Regions.ini</li>
<li>'''Master Avatar last name''' - The last name of the master avatar.
<li>'''Master Avatar sandbox password''' - The password of the master avatar.

Be aware of [http://osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=400&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a loopback] problems when Running viewer & server(s) on the same machine (LAN) by using the "external" configuration. ('''You might notice endless waiting for region handshake'''.) See also [http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Troubleshooting troubleshoot hints]. If you're having Connectivity problems. [http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Network_Settings Be sure to read the Network Configuration Page]. This is important if you see Region handshake issues</li>

See [[Configuring_Regions]] for information about the Regions.ini file that these questions generate.

</ul>

<li> To create a user type </li>

create user

in the server console. This will ask you a series of questions for creating a user (such as first name, last name and password).

<li> To connect to your new sim with your user, start up a Second Life viewer with the following command line switches: </li>

'''Client on same machine as OpenSim:''' -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:9000/ -loginpage http://127.0.0.1:9000/?method=login

'''Client on same LAN as OpenSim:''' -loginuri http://lan_ip:9000/ -loginpage http://lan_ip:9000/?method=login

Client on different machine or internet:''' -loginuri http://external_ip:9000/ -loginpage http://external_ip:9000/?method=login'''

Then enter the user name and password you set up in the previous step and your new user should hopefully login.

</ol>

= Running OpenSim in Grid mode =

Running OpenSim in grid mode is considerably more complicated. Grid services need to be set up and the region simulator configuration needs to be changed to use these instead of the built-in standalone mode ones.

==Configuring the grid services==
[[Image:Exclamation.png|left]]
NOTE: The grid servers are in the process of being redesigned.
Some services are now run in a common 'ROBUST' (Basic Universal Server Technology) server shell
while others are still run as separate legacy servers.
'''More Details on ROBUST are Here -->'''[[ROBUST|'''ROBUST''']]''' <--  including Conversion From UGAIM To UGRM (0.6.6 -> 0.6.7) and UGRM to URM (0.6.7 -> 0.6.8)'''

As of OpenSim 0.6.8, R.O.B.U.S.T. has connectors for the asset (A), grid (G) and inventory (I) functionality. The legacy servers are still required for user (U) and messaging (M) functionality. The steps below will get you up and running. We'll assume that your current directory is bin/ within the OpenSim distribution.

<ol>
<li>'''Configure the user server'''</li>
<ul>
<li>Start OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe</li>
<li>You will be asked a number of configuration questions. If the grid servers are all on one machine, most defaults are safe to use. The configuration is stored in the UserServer_Config.xml file which can be changed afterwards if necessary.</li>
<li>The user server will then load and display it's prompt:</li>
User#
</ul>

<li>'''Configure R.O.B.U.S.T.'''</li>
<ul>
<li>Copy OpenSim.Server.ini.example to OpenSim.Server.ini. Don't forget to change ConnectionString for your database settings. (on version 0.6.6 copy OpenSim.Services.ini.example to OpenSim.Services.ini - then use OpenSim.Services instead OpenSim.Server)
</li>
Linux
bin$ cp OpenSim.Server.ini.example OpenSim.Server.ini
Windows
C:\OpenSim\bin> copy OpenSim.Server.ini.example OpenSim.Server.ini
<li>Start OpenSim.Server.exe</li>
<li>The server will start up it's asset, inventory and grid components and display the R.O.B.U.S.T prompt:</li>
R.O.B.U.S.T.#
<li>For more information on the R.O.B.U.S.T. configuration file and more information if you are migrating from an earlier release of OpenSim, refer to [[R.O.B.U.S.T.]]</li>
</ul>

<li>'''Configure the messaging server'''</li>
<ul>
<li>Start OpenSim.Grid.MessagingServer.exe</li>
<li>Answer the configuration questions. Again, if all servers are run on the same machine, it's safe to press enter for all questions. The configuration is stored in MessagingServer_Config.xml.</li>
<li>The server will start and present you with it's prompt:</li>
Messaging#
</ul>

</ol>

For information on running the legacy servers, particularly if you're using an older version of before 0.6.7 that doesn't contain the ROBUST framework, see [[LegacyServers]]

=== Summary of commands for running grid service executables ===

'''Windows'''
cd bin
OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe
OpenSim.Server.exe
OpenSim.Grid.MessagingServer.exe

'''Linux / Mac OS X'''
cd bin
mono OpenSim.Grid.UserServer.exe
mono OpenSim.Server.exe
mono OpenSim.Grid.MessagingServer.exe

==Configuring regions==

When first run, a new OpenSim installation will ask you a series of questions to set up one region. If you want to change these settings or set up multiple regions, please see [[Configuring_Regions]]

==Configuring and Starting the region simulator==
<ol>
<li>Find the [Architecture] section, comment out the line that says</li>
Include-Standalone = "config-include/Standalone.ini"
and uncomment the line saying
Include-Grid = "config-include/Grid.ini

<li>save OpenSim.ini, and go into the config-include directory.</li>
<li>copy the following files</li>
GridCommon.ini.example to GridCommon.ini
CenomeCache.ini.example to CenomeCache.ini
FlotsamCache.ini.example to FlotsamCache.ini

<li>Open all these files (Grid.ini, GridCommon.ini, CenomeCache.ini and FlotsamCache.ini) and edit to suit your needs</li>

<li>You should now be ready to start up your sim. The mode that OpenSim.exe starts in is normally controlled by a setting in your OpenSim.ini. It defaults to standalone mode if that setting is not specified or the file is not found. If you wish, you can force opensim to start in gridmode on the command line as follows:</li>
OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true
or if using the ODE physics plugin under 64 bit Windows
OpenSim.32BitLaunch.exe
or:
mono OpenSim.exe -gridmode=true
if you're using Mono under Linux or Mac OSX.

With any luck, everything will come up without fatal errors.

If you have problems using the OpenDynamicsEngine on *nix, try setting your stack reserve level higher than the default with the following command;
<tt>ulimit -s 262144</tt> Or, run the opensim-ode.sh to start up OpenSimulator.

<li>Go to the UserServer console, and type 'create user' to create a new avatar. It will prompt you for the name and password, and the X and Y of the sim that should be his home location. Use 1000 and 1000, or wherever you told your sim to live when you brought it up in standalone mode. At the console of any of these servers, you should be able to type 'help' to get a list of commands.</li>

<li>You should now be able to connect to your new grid with your secondlife client. You need to tell your client to point at the UserServer rather than directly at the sim, though:</li>
secondlife -loginuri http://127.0.0.1:8002/
8002 is the default port for the UserServer, and that IP address should be changed to the server you are running the UserServer on, if they are not all on the same box. Happy OpenSimming! 
''Note: if you are using Windows Vista, remember to start servers as Admin. If not it will prompt you an error in console like "Error - Access denied"''
</ol>

==Attaching your sim to someone else's grid==
To set up the region server (i.e., <tt>OpenSim.exe</tt>) to connect to an external grid, you should edit the <tt>OpenSim.ini</tt> file in the <tt>bin</tt> directory. In that file, there is a <tt>[Network]</tt> section with URLs for the grid, user, and asset servers, as well as send and receive keys (for a basic level of security). The addresses and send/receive keys will vary depending on the grid you are connecting to, and the grid operator should tell you what values to use.

The other file you may have to change is in your <tt>bin/Regions</tt> directory. This is where your individual region config files are. If you only have one region, it will by default be called <tt>Regions.ini</tt> in OpenSim 0.6.7 and later and <tt>regions.xml</tt> in OpenSim 0.6.6 and earlier.

This can be edited with any text editor. The grid owner may tell you what X and Y location you can place your sim at (you can't have multiple sims at the same location on the grid). If so, the fields you will need to change in this file are <tt>sim_location_x</tt> and <tt>sim_location_y</tt>. And the <tt>external_host_name</tt> should be set to the hostname or IP address of your simulation server (i.e., the machine that is running <tt>OpenSim.exe</tt>).
A list of public grids that you can attach your sim to is at [[OpenSim: Grids]]

=Further notes=

==Running OpenSim 0.6.7 and onwards in 64 bit Windows==
[[Image:Exclamation.png|left]]
As of OpenSim 0.6.7, the default physics engine for OpenSim was changed to the ODE engine. This is because ODE is by far the most advanced physics engine plugin currently in OpenSim. Unfortunately, it has the drawback in that it's library is not compilable under 64bit in Windows. Therefore, 64 bit Windows users may need to run

OpenSim.32BitLaunch.exe

instead of

OpenSim.exe

To launch their region simulator.

An alternative is to use the basicphysics engine instead or one of the other alternative physics engines bundled with OpenSim, though all these are far less functional than the ODE plugin.

==Note About Mono==
If you're using mono, you should increase the value of the mono environment variable MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU from its default of 5 to some number that works for your sim. The exact number depends on many factors including: the number of CPUs in your machine, what else you use that machine for, how many regions you have in your sim, how many of them are adjacent, how many scripts you have, and how many avatars you expect to serve at the same time. As a reference, Wright Plaza in OSGrid, which is running as a single region on a sim and routinely hosts meetings with 20 avatars, uses the value 125.

If this number is too low, the operation of your sim will start to break in all sorts of different ways. A common symptom is the freezing of all activity upon login of a new avatar. Other symptoms are a lot more subtle.

For example: $ export MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU=125

== Legacy Configuration Information ==
These are some pages containing some legacy configuration information of unknown accuracy.

[[OpenSim 0.6.6 legacy configuration information]]

== Additional Configuration Tasks (for advanced users) ==

===OpenSim.exe command line options===
OpenSim.exe has command line options which allow you to perform actions such as reading configuratio nfiles from a different directory. See [[OpenSim.exe Command Line Options]] for more details.

===Script engine===
OpenSim supports multiple script engines. See [[ScriptEngines]] for details. If you don't know what this means then the default script engine will be fine.

===Permissions Configuration===
OpenSim has a quite elaborate set of permissions. See [[OpenSim:Permissions(Server)]] for details. By default, permissions are not active on region simulators.

=== Logging ===
By default, OpenSim logs information to a file called OpenSim.log in the bin directory. See [[Logging]] for details on how to further configure this if required.

=== Configuration of region modules ===
* [[IRCBridgeModule]]
* [[Freeswitch_Module]]
* [[Offline Messaging]]

=== Configuration of Metaverse Exchange Protocol (MXP) ===
* [[Metaverse Exchange Protocol]]

=== Configuration of Web Server and Pages===
OpenSim contains a web server that can serve up a variety of pages. Some which come from external files and some are generated internally.
* [[External Files]]
* [[Internally Generated]]

[[Category:Configuration]]

OSSL Enabling Functions

2009-12-28T22:54:19Z

Markuser:

Here is a '''Modified [XEngine]''' Section for your OpenSim.ini This is effective up to OpenSim Version: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev) GIT# 7a06ab8 - r11769 (interface version 6)  December.25.2009 and is Subject to Change

! Not all Functions may be available in previous versions / revisions of OpenSim.

! New Functions may become available and some functions may be deprecated in the future.

Simply Replace the [XEngine] Section in your OpenSim.ini and adjust according to your needs

 <source lang="ini">[XEngine]
; Enable this engine in this OpenSim instance
Enabled = true

; How many threads to keep alive even if nothing is happening
MinThreads = 2

; How many threads to start at maximum load
MaxThreads = 100

; Time a thread must be idle (in seconds) before it dies
IdleTimeout = 60

; Thread priority ("Lowest", "BelowNormal", "Normal", "AboveNormal", "Highest")
Priority = "BelowNormal"

; Maximum number of events to queue for a script (excluding timers)
MaxScriptEventQueue = 300

; Stack size per thread created
ThreadStackSize = 262144

; Set this to true (the default) to load each script into a separate
; AppDomain. Setting this to false will load all script assemblies into the
; current AppDomain, which will reduce the per-script overhead at the
; expense of reduced security and the inability to garbage collect the
; script assemblies
AppDomainLoading = true

; Rate to poll for asynchronous command replies (ms)
; currently unused
;AsyncLLCommandLoopms = 50

; Save the source of all compiled scripts
WriteScriptSourceToDebugFile = false

; Default language for scripts
DefaultCompileLanguage = lsl

; List of allowed languages (lsl,vb,js,cs)
; AllowedCompilers=lsl,cs,js,vb.
; *warning*, non lsl languages have access to static methods such as System.IO.File. Enable at your own risk.
AllowedCompilers=lsl

; Compile debug info (line numbers) into the script assemblies
CompileWithDebugInformation = true

; Interval (s) between background save of script states
SaveInterval = 120

; Interval (s) between maintenance runs (0 = disable)
MaintenanceInterval = 10

; Time a script can spend in an event handler before it is interrupted
EventLimit = 30

; If a script overruns it's event limit, kill the script?
KillTimedOutScripts = false

; Sets the multiplier for the scripting delays
ScriptDelayFactor = 1.0

; The factor the 10 m distances llimits are multiplied by
ScriptDistanceLimitFactor = 1.0

; Maximum length of notecard line read
; Increasing this to large values potentially opens
; up the system to malicious scripters
; NotecardLineReadCharsMax = 255

; Sensor settings
SensorMaxRange = 96.0
SensorMaxResults = 16
;
; ==== OSSL FUNCTION BLOCK ====
; Allow the use of os* functions (some are dangerous)
AllowOSFunctions = true
;
; Threat level to allow, one of None, VeryLow, Low, Moderate, High, VeryHigh, Severe
OSFunctionThreatLevel = Low
;
; The default for all functions allows them if below the threat level as defined above
; If a Higher Threat Level Function is set to TRUE This will operate OVER the above define default level
;
;; = true allows the use of the function unconditionally
;; = false completely disallows regardless
;; = UUID allows that Individual Avatar Access to osFunction
;; UUID,UUID,UUID would allow the 3 different avatars to access function
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL NONE Functions ****
Allow_osGetCurrentSunHour = true
Allow_osSunGetParam = true
Allow_osSunSetParam = true
Allow_osWindActiveModelPluginName = true
Allow_osMovePen = true
Allow_osDrawLine = true
Allow_osDrawText = true
Allow_osDrawEllipse = true
Allow_osDrawRectangle = true
Allow_osDrawFilledRectangle = true
Allow_osSetFontSize = true
Allow_osSetPenSize = true
Allow_osSetPenColour = true
Allow_osDrawImage = true
Allow_osGetAgents = true
Allow_osTerrainGetHeight = true
Allow_osParseJSON = true
Allow_osDrawFilledPolygon = true
Allow_osSetPenCap = true
Allow_osSetFontName = true
Allow_osGetMapTexture = true
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL Nuisance Block ****
Allow_osSetRegionSunSettings = false
Allow_osSetEstateSunSettings = false
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL VeryLow Block ****
Allow_osTerrainFlush = false
Allow_osSetPrimFloatOnWater = true
Allow_osSetDynamicTextureURL = true
Allow_osSetDynamicTextureURLBlend = true
Allow_osSetDynamicTextureURLBlendFace = true
Allow_osSetDynamicTextureData = true
Allow_osSetDynamicTextureDataBlend = true
Allow_osSetDynamicTextureDataBlendFace = true
Allow_osGetDrawStringSize = true
Allow_osWindParamSet = true
Allow_osWindParamGet = true
Allow_osSetParcelMediaURL = true
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL Low Block ****
Allow_osMessageObject = true
Allow_osAvatarName2Key = true
Allow_osKey2Name = true
Allow_osFormatString = true
Allow_osLoadedCreationDate = false
Allow_osLoadedCreationTime = false
Allow_osLoadedCreationID = false
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL Moderate ****
Allow_osGetGridNick = true
Allow_osGetGridName = true
Allow_osGetGridLoginURI = true
Allow_osGetRegionStats = true
Allow_osGetSimulatorMemory = true
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL HIGH Block ****
Allow_osTeleportAgent = true
Allow_osMakeNotecard = true
Allow_osMatchString = false
Allow_osTerrainSetHeight = false
Allow_osRegionRestart = false
Allow_osGetAgentIP = false
Allow_osSetRegionWaterHeight = false
Allow_osGetScriptEngineName = false
Allow_osGetRegionMapTexture = false ; osGetRegionMapTexture(string regionName)
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL VeryHigh Block ****
Allow_osRegionNotice = false
Allow_osSetRot = false
Allow_osAvatarPlayAnimation = false
Allow_osAvatarStopAnimation = false
Allow_osGetNotecardLine = false
Allow_osGetNotecard = false
Allow_osGetNumberOfNotecardLines = false
;
; **** THREAT LEVEL Severe Block****
Allow_osGetSimulatorVersion = true
Allow_osConsoleCommand = false ; ! USE ONLY WITH REGION OPERATORS UUID !
;
; ==== END OF OSSL FUNCTION BLOCK ====
;
; Allow for llCreateLink and llBreakLink to work without asking for permission
; only enable this in a trusted environment otherwise you may be subject to hijacking
; AutomaticLinkPermission = false

; Disable underground movement of prims (default true); set to
; false to allow script controlled underground positioning of
; prims
; DisableUndergroundMovement = true</source> 

--[[User:WhiteStar|WhiteStar]] 16:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

[[Category:Configuration]]

Setting things up on Linux

2009-06-12T12:50:53Z

Markuser: Category:Help

__NOTOC__
{{Template:Quicklinks}}
 

== 1. Get and build the code==

Much instruction on this is in the [[User Documentation|User Docs]], basically it boils down to:

* installing a recent version of mono
* [[Download#Source_code|downloding the source code]] either as a tar.gz file, or by checking out the source code from the OpenSim subversion (SVN) repository, or by clone the OpenSim mercurial repository

==2. Start programming==

Ha ha, only joking (but seriously, you could just go and edit the code with vi or emacs or something, it's all in the OpenSim directory). However, we find that most people tend to like to use an IDE when writing OpenSim code. The best one on Linux is probably [http://www.monodevelop.com/Main_Page Monodevelop]. You should be able to load the OpenSim.sln file sitting in the root OpenSim directory into this (this file was generated at the prebuild.sh step, as described in the user instructions). See [[Monodevelop|this wiki page]] for more details.

[[Category:Help]]

Chat log from the meeting on 2008-07-21

2009-06-12T12:32:17Z

Markuser:

[[Category:Chat Logs]]
__NOTOC__
{{Template:Quicklinks}}
 
 [10:58] Bill Humphries: Yes.
 [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: hey shenlei!
 [10:58] Bill Humphries: Hey Dahlia, Charles.
 [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia, adam, bill, samuel
 [10:58] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
 [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: nice to see you Charles
 [10:58] Adam Frisby: Hey guys
 [10:59] Dahlia Trimble quickly does a vanity rebake
 [10:59] You: morning.
 [10:59] You: Nice dress, Shenlei
 [10:59] Shenlei Winkler blinks....
 [11:00] Shenlei Winkler: hi guys
 [11:00] Shenlei Winkler: Thanks Charles
 [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
 [11:00] You: you guys and gals are shaming me out of my "ruth state"
 [11:00] Shenlei Winkler: Hi Justin, it's nice to see you again
 [11:00] Strawberry Fride: hi everyone :)
 [11:00] Shenlei Winkler grins ruthlessly
 [11:00] Shenlei Winkler: good
 [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: lol
 [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: well, me in my poor grey/black ruthed state
 [11:00] Bill Humphries: Ah, rebaked.
 [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: graphics card issues
 [11:00] Shenlei Winkler: I lost some of my hair in inventory somewhere. I'm sulking.
 [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hey dahlia, strawberry
 [11:00] You: being a nerd, I just barely get my pants and shirt on in the morning.
 [11:01] Strawberry Fride: most of you haven't rezzed in any form for me yet - getting disembodied voices :)
 [11:01] Shenlei Winkler: they make GR animals for that you know
 [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting
 [11:01] Dahlia Trimble: I cant see Shenlei's dress, she looks like a cloud :(
 [11:01] Shenlei Winkler: Match the gorilla to the gorilla
 [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I can see her dress, though there's a lot of grey....
 [11:01] Shenlei Winkler: I'm moving content over...or trying
 [11:01] Bill Humphries: She's wearing the mother of all crinolines with that dress.
 [11:01] You: Shall we start or wait another minute?
 [11:02] Shenlei Winkler: Ballgowns are the epitome of virtual worlds, Bill
 [11:02] Bill Humphries: No argument there.
 [11:02] You: Maybe I need a ball gown sometime so I can keep up.
 [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting, my graphics card actually appears to be playing ball today
 [11:02] Strawberry Fride: can still only see 4 avatars - though plenty more dots on minimap
 [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, lots more people than that here sf
 [11:03] Strawberry Fride: I guessed as much :)
 [11:03] Bill Humphries: Well, at some point, maybe Hya will open a branch out here.
 [11:03] Dahlia Trimble: everyone is grey but Bluewall and Strawberry
 [11:03] Dahlia Trimble: and Bill
 [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, we do seem to have avatar appearance issues still.....
 [11:04] Strawberry Fride: I can see Dahlia (with clothes), Chris D (also with clothes) and a grey Monk and a grey Adam :)
 [11:04] You: I see lots of "AgentHeightWidth" and "MapItemRequest" packets so the sim is loading a bit.
 [11:04] Bill Humphries: maybe hitting rebake?
 [11:04] Shenlei Winkler: Persistence is getting better
 [11:04] Chris D was worried he might be naked
 [11:04] You: Adam? Are you here or a zombie?
 [11:04] Shenlei Winkler: I teleported today and did not lose my hair
 [11:04] Strawberry Fride: my hair on my sim is remarkably resilient
 [11:04] You: great, Shenlei
 [11:05] Strawberry Fride: especially since we added that missing method to SQL Server. No wonder it wasn't working so well :)
 [11:05] Strawberry Fride: nothing in the Agents table at all before Sunday
 [11:05] You: Lets try to get started. I think the first item of business is to chat with our LL colleagues and discuss interop issues.
 [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: mssql tends to lag in opensim
 [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: good stuff
 [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hey mic
 [11:06] Strawberry Fride: mssql not so much any more - whizzy these days
 [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi neas
 [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean in terms of functionality
 [11:06] Bill Humphries: okay, Tess and Greg are coming, if you have another item you can do first
 [11:06] Strawberry Fride: :)
 [11:06] You: Morning, Neas, Mic.
 [11:06] Mic Bowman: morning all
 [11:07] Neas Bade: hey all
 [11:07] Monk Zymurgy: g'morning
 [11:07] You: Ready to get started?
 [11:07] Neas Bade: charles, can you turn on build for me?
 [11:07] Neas Bade: I want to generate the sit bug test case
 [11:08] Adam Frisby: That was weeird
 [11:08] Adam Frisby: Anyway
 [11:09] Adam Frisby: I have a slight announcement for these hours - can someone add a note on the agenda for me?
 [11:09] You: Neas. You are an estate manager just like me and I just rezzed a box.
 [11:09] Dahlia Trimble: slight?
 [11:09] Neas Bade: yeh, no dice
 [11:09] Adam Frisby: Oh, I totally need estate manager privilidges. >_>
 [11:09] Strawberry Fride: oo - now I see people! flew into adjacent region and back :) Shenlei - fab outfit!
 [11:09] Neas Bade: oh, never mind
 [11:10] Shenlei Winkler grins
 [11:10] Neas Bade: my build button is just greyed out
 [11:10] Shenlei Winkler: Thanks
 [11:10] Neas Bade: ok, I'm going to go build this a little ways away
 [11:10] Mic Bowman: brb
 [11:10] Neas Bade: back shortly
 [11:10] You: Adam, Neas. The estate stuff appears to be a bit fubar lately.
 [11:11] Zha Ewry: Hah. Shen is a ruth to me
 [11:11] Zha Ewry: What a fate
 [11:11] Shenlei Winkler: Darling, I can haz hair
 [11:11] Shenlei Winkler smiles
 [11:11] Adam Frisby: Hehe
 [11:11] Zha Ewry: No
 [11:11] Zha Ewry: You can haz particle cloud
 [11:11] Strawberry Fride: lol
 [11:11] You: Lets get going. Sorry about the estate stuff, Neas. I'll have Nebadon look at it a little later. I dont want to loose our hour.
 [11:11] G2 Proto: :) hello all
 [11:11] Shenlei Winkler: well, there are worse things...+
 [11:11] Primitive: Script running
 [11:12] You: Lets let Adam go first. Adam, you have the floor.
 [11:12] Adam Frisby: Alright, I have shinies.
 [11:12] Adam Frisby: Zha, you're going to appreciate this.
 [11:12] Dahlia Trimble: shinies? o.O
 [11:12] You: Somebody hit you in the eye?
 [11:12] Adam Frisby: Myself and Mike just finished setting up forge.opensimulator.org -- it's a install of GForge, which is Source-forge like software. It's for people who are working on opensim related projects, to get hosting and SVN access for it
 [11:13] Adam Frisby: Things like say the Perl Gridservers, the ASP.NET gridservers, Zha's interop patches, etc can all be hosted there
 [11:13] Adam Frisby: We can make projects, you get mailing lists, bug trackers, etc all included plus SVN hosting (looks like we have Hg and Git too)
 [11:13] BlueWall Slade: awesome!
 [11:13] Hiro Protagonist: +1 Adam
 [11:13] Hiro Protagonist: Hi All :D
 [11:13] Zha Ewry: Cool
 [11:13] Zha Ewry: Better still, when the pacth isn't ugly as sin
 [11:13] Hiro Protagonist: we need to get Jeroen's 'moo' on there too
 [11:14] You: How do we handle keeping the patches in sync with the opensim svn?
 [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: good question Charles
 [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: adam: nice
 [11:14] Adam Frisby: Well, doing full opensim clones probably isnt the intent of hosting it there, but I imagine just producing .patches based on SVN revisions might be the way to go.
 [11:14] Hiro Protagonist: Hiya WHump :)
 [11:14] You: Hiro. Can you figure out how to set Neas so he can build and add Adam to estate managers. I cant tell if it is broken or not.
 [11:14] Adam Frisby: In any case, it should help - I'm going to throw up a lot of the internal DTL code onto it so you can play with some of our internal stuff. Anyone else is free to register projects, etc.
 [11:15] Adam Frisby: We've got a 15 user limit right now, but that will be removed in a day or two when we get the proper OSS license reg'd.
 [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: sure thing Charles one sec
 [11:15] Bill Humphries: Sorry about that, I lost my presense.
 [11:15] You: No problem, Bill. Anything else, Adam? Any questions for Adam?
 [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: didn't appear to be directly a server issue
 [11:15] G2 Proto: its very cool thanks Adam
 [11:15] Bill Humphries: What was the topic?
 [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: Ckrinke, need to relog as plaza builder
 [11:16] You: [11:12] Adam Frisby: Myself and Mike just finished setting up forge.opensimulator.org -- it's a install of GForge, which is Source-forge like software. It's for people who are working on opensim related projects, to get hosting and SVN access for it
 [11:16] Tao Takashi: somehow I seem to be underwater and I cannot see myself ...
 [11:16] You: k, Hiro
 [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: also the estate managers list for this region is impacted; I'll have to purge a few non-participants
 [11:16] You: [11:13] Adam Frisby: Things like say the Perl Gridservers, the ASP.NET gridservers, Zha's interop patches, etc can all be hosted there
 [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Thanks Adam :)
 [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: we still have these login issues I see...
 [11:16] You: Anything else, Adam? Any questions for Adam?
 [11:16] Bill Humphries: okay, thanks for catching me back up
 [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: adam: are there any criteria for getting hosting?
 [11:17] Neas Bade: btw, this is the log off doom. It has funny effects if people log in later as to what you look like. Fun bugs in the sit code
 [11:17] Neas Bade: btw, Adam, +1 for setting up gforge
 [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from that you have code related to opensim?
 [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: don't log off is you're on the log of doom?
 [11:18] You: Lets give Bill the floor and Adam can chime in if there is more, or anyone can ask questions about anything we previously talked about.
 [11:18] Adam Frisby: Justin: no criteria other than it's somewhat opensim related.
 [11:18] Adam Frisby: Projects have to be approved by a site admin (opensim devs)
 [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: cool :)
 [11:18] Neas Bade: Adam, I thought there was a free version of gforge, not just the commercial version. Or did they stop doing that?
 [11:19] Plaza Builder: Ok Neas
 [11:19] Adam Frisby: Neas: The free version is crippled.
 [11:19] Adam Frisby: Majorly, so we're applying for the full F/OSS one.
 [11:19] Plaza Builder: if you select 'Advanced->View Admin Options' it should enable your estate powers
 [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: who is Plaza Builder today?
 [11:20] Plaza Builder: Hiro, but only temproarily
 [11:20] Neas Bade: Plaza, no, it's working for me
 [11:20] Plaza Builder: cool
 [11:20] Neas Bade: I didn't realize the build button would stay greyed out
 [11:20] Neas Bade: that's something we should change
 [11:20] Plaza Builder: Ahhhh
 [11:20] Neas Bade: but it's a minor bug
 [11:20] Plaza Builder: yup
 [11:20] Neas Bade: sorry, my confusion
 [11:20] Plaza Builder: Charles, what all was it you asked me to do? Neas, and...
 [11:21] Bill Humphries: Okay, Tess and Zha are here, so I can go ahead if you all are ready.
 [11:21] You: Adam as estate manager. Gryc might have to go off the list.
 [11:21] You: Please go ahead, Bill.
 [11:21] Plaza Builder: Gryc is off, as are Babble and Pablo
 [11:21] Plaza Builder: they can be readded later if need be
 [11:21] You: k, Hiro
 [11:21] Bill Humphries: Okay, so next week, the 31st, we're kicking off the Open Grid Protocol Beta Program.
 [11:21] Adam Frisby: Charles: we should be able to make it so there's multiple admins.
 [11:22] Adam Frisby: (FYI: Mike just got the F/OSS license then, he's installing now)
 [11:22] Tao Takashi: now this looks better. Hello :)
 [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Tao
 [11:22] Bill Humphries: As you may know, Zha Ewry developed a patch for OpenSim that enables the protocols for teleport.
 [11:22] G2 Proto: hey Tao
 [11:22] Plaza Builder: Ok Adam you are set sir
 [11:22] Plaza Builder: brb w/Hiro
 [11:22] Zha Ewry: FFor some epsilon, around the phrase enables
 [11:23] Bill Humphries: At the moment, we need to do a little more work to get Zha's changes in sync with our agent domain.
 [11:23] Tao Takashi: I should have tried to login to here earlier to be here in time ...
 [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: is the current interop patch on mantis up to date?
 [11:23] Zha Ewry: I should have a new on to offer in a day or so
 [11:24] Zha Ewry: Among other things, catching up to the current Linden Beta grid
 [11:24] Zha Ewry: and.. somewhat better integrated, less horrible
 [11:24] Bill Humphries: But what I'm hoping to come out of here with is a plan for people participating in the beta to either be able to build OpenSim out of top of trunk with OGP support, or a well-defined way to get it patched with OGP support.
 [11:24] G2 Proto: great!
 [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: Zha, is it still the case that applying the patch disrupts the current region login ops?
 [11:25] Hiro Protagonist: lol
 [11:25] Adam Frisby: >_> <_<
 [11:25] Hiro Protagonist: Adam
 [11:25] Strawberry Fride: :)
 [11:25] Zha Ewry: Less so, but yes
 [11:25] You: <harumph>
 [11:25] Zha Ewry: Mostly in the handles
 [11:25] Bill Humphries: I saw the blue card, LOL.
 [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: lol
 [11:25] Zha Ewry: Once we sort out the current prtocol update, I want to look at that
 [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, the best thing right now might be just for people to apply the patch
 [11:26] Zha Ewry: I think, and this is problematic, for the longer term story
 [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: or for some kind soul to supply a build with it pre-applied
 [11:26] Bill Humphries: So that would be a blocker, then, alright.
 [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: Justin, you are in color mate ;)
 [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: I have a build with it applied
 [11:26] Tao Takashi: btw, it would be great if the protocol docs would be updated or discussion about changes would go about some mailing list so I can keep up with my agent domain implementation. not sure if that's possible
 [11:26] Zha Ewry: that you won't be able to login, via the normal path, and teleport, because you won't be on the agent domain correctly
 [11:26] You: So, Bill. Is your understanding that the interop is teleporting to an OpenSim standalone region from the betagrid and not to a region attached to OSGrid?
 [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: I know - it's wierd - there's nothing different on my machine :)
 [11:27] Bill Humphries: Charles, at the moment, yes. But I think teleporting to a grid enabled sim would be a great next step in the beta.
 [11:27] Hiro Protagonist: hrmmm
 [11:28] Zha Ewry: I clearly want to get this synced with the full grid version
 [11:28] Hiro Protagonist: I guess I'll wait for phase 2 then
 [11:28] Zha Ewry: Part of that is going to be sorting out handles
 [11:28] Hiro Protagonist: I dont have the resources to set up a standalone
 [11:28] Neas Bade: so, that means proper agent domain handoff, right?
 [11:28] Zha Ewry: (my one attempt to patch that way, was a nightmare)
 [11:28] Neas Bade: because I don't think we want osgrid accounts to be dependant on SL accounts
 [11:29] Bill Humphries: Neas, this is just a beta.
 [11:29] Neas Bade: most people running grids want seperate account controls
 [11:29] Neas Bade: Bill, yeh, I understand that :)
 [11:29] Tao Takashi: I would more call it alpha ;-)
 [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: agent domain handoff is going to be considerably more complicated I imagine
 [11:29] Neas Bade: but if we're trying for real grid interop, it seems like doing it early would be a good thing
 [11:29] You: For, now it is fair to say that a common username could be used so we dont have to open the openid/liveid/authorization bit yet.
 [11:29] Zha Ewry: I think there is a very legitimate concern, in not handling the AD list
 [11:29] Zha Ewry: (bit)
 [11:30] Zha Ewry: too many SL style meetings, my typoing dies
 [11:30] Neas Bade: :)
 [11:30] Zha Ewry: There are two, issues, I think, one is the agent domain code, the other, woudl be the client handling the hand off
 [11:31] You: Well, I dont want to derail any of the efforts, so I'll stand in the background a bit, and OSGrid is happy to support this effort when appropriate for LL's plans.
 [11:32] You: Although one has to understand that the notion of "interop" implies grid<-->grid, both betagrid<->OpenSimGrid *and* OpenSimGrid<->OpenSimGrid
 [11:32] Bill Humphries: Okay, so for the short term, if we could host the patch on adam's gforge, until we can work through the issues with merging that would be good. And I can see if we can provide a precompiled mono .exe as well.
 [11:32] Adam Frisby: Go ahead - if you make the project right now, I can approve it.
 [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: couldnt interop also include grid<->standalone?
 [11:33] Adam Frisby: (I'll also add the other opensim admins to the site admins if they care to register accounts. hehe.)
 [11:33] Tao Takashi: I hope the patch will then also be published
 [11:33] Neas Bade: Dahlia, I think so
 [11:33] You: We can run a mono .exe on the OSGrid gridserver as long as both LL and the core developers agree.
 [11:33] Tess Linden: Interop means that the code implements against the protocol, and any code taht runs against the protocol should interoperate with each other
 [11:33] Bill Humphries: Yes, and that's where, given the time left before the beta starts, where we'll start from.
 [11:33] Digi Fly: hi
 [11:33] Hiro Protagonist: I think it should also support standalone as well; however, it's important to note, that there is almost no representation of that use case on osgrid
 [11:33] Zha Ewry: Well, baring opermisions and all
 [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: tao: you mean the zha's existing work? that is already out there
 [11:34] Neas Bade: the issue on the opensim side is that we've got to address moving between standalone and grid instances relatively shortly, especially because there is no URL bar in the client
 [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: you mean local assets?
 [11:34] Tess Linden: we've got code thats working against a protocol that will allow you to TP between virtual worlds, we're talking about making it easy to iterate on
 [11:34] Bill Humphries: A patch that will enable OGP on a standalone grid. With the caveats about no inventory, no baked textures coming over.
 [11:34] Neas Bade: and if there is no ability to do agent domain handoff, then that is a real issue
 [11:34] You: Ok. This may be an important point then. Are you saying that interop has nothing to do with moving from grid to grid, or sim to sim, but merely that certain code communicates with each other in two internet seperated sites?
 [11:34] Tess Linden: Neas: Suzy put in a url bar in the client before she left for vacation
 [11:34] Hiro Protagonist: Justin: I mean, coming to osgrid to look for people running standalone is, well, a little misdirected
 [11:34] Tess Linden: it remembers the last 10 region_urls youve typed in
 [11:34] Tao Takashi: Justin: I also mean the changes which are happening now
 [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: true :)
 [11:35] Neas Bade: Tess, ok, so when does that release in a GA browser? :P)
 [11:35] Zha Ewry: Interop is a series of steps, and teleport is only one part
 [11:35] Tao Takashi: I have Zha's patch running here on a standalone server
 [11:35] Neas Bade: oops sorr for the P, I just meant a smilely
 [11:35] You: k. I best start correcting a mis-conception that exists in our users.
 [11:35] Neas Bade: Tess, those urls include grid?
 [11:35] Zha Ewry: We need to make sure it's all the places where we ahve urls
 [11:36] Tess Linden: region_urls identify the region you're rezzing into, could be on any grid
 [11:36] Zha Ewry: including AD, Region, and login
 [11:36] Tao Takashi: and it would be nicer of course to have a branch instead of a patch which you have to apply
 [11:36] paulie Flomar waves
 [11:36] Zha Ewry: We really want to make it easy to hop to any of the permuations
 [11:36] Zha Ewry: and. ideally, without a logout/login
 [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: Hi Paulie
 [11:36] Tess Linden: sorry CHarles, whats the misconception?
 [11:36] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, everyone. :)
 [11:36] BlueWall Slade: stand alone seems a good, safe first step
 [11:37] Neas Bade: ok, so when do we get to see that in a release client? As it would be really nice to not need to have all these icon links for different OS instances
 [11:37] paulie Flomar: thx, d.
 [11:37] Digi Fly: stand alone still the required firts step.
 [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: hey paulie
 [11:37] Tess Linden: thats what the Beta is for, so we can all try it out and work out all the kinks to a ready state
 [11:37] Tao Takashi: will this beta client also have some cmdline option to change the agent domain?
 [11:37] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, JCC.
 [11:37] Neas Bade: right, but the beta client won't do old auth, right?
 [11:37] You: The prevalent misconception is that the interop implies a full handoff from betagrid<->OpenSimGrid, both ways, in an arms-length manner. I may have to soften the perceptions in the users a bit.
 [11:37] Zha Ewry: I think its in the branch
 [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: maybe we need to develop some criteria for including the interop patch into core?
 [11:38] Zha Ewry: (the various switches, to select all the bits, if not, it needs to be)
 [11:38] Tao Takashi: interop4 I guess
 [11:38] Tess Linden: +1 Dahlia
 [11:38] You: No problem. I just dont want the users to assume it is further ahead then it is. That adds additional pressure on everyone.
 [11:39] Zha Ewry: I think handles, grid , whitelisting, good controls, and cleaner code, would begin to do it
 [11:39] You: +1, Zha. Thats about where my thinking starts.
 [11:39] Bill Humphries: Zha by grid you mean teleporting into a sim in a grid, or a handoff?
 [11:39] Tess Linden: Charles: its not a full handoff because your identity lives with the agent domain, and the agent domain is the second life one, but the opensim one doesn't implement against the protocol yet
 [11:39] Zha Ewry: Being able to run in grid mode
 [11:39] Bill Humphries: Zha: +1
 [11:40] Zha Ewry: Full handoff, I think is another good, but, somewhat seperable
 [11:40] Zha Ewry: issue
 [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I think we're really aiming for modules for the protocol stuff if possible
 [11:40] Tess Linden: do we need all those things for the Beta?
 [11:40] Zha Ewry: We need to be able to do it, so we can have both the various unified and seperable cases
 [11:40] Zha Ewry: I think we need all of those to exit beta ;-)
 [11:40] TARDIS Wiki-Lith: No wikipedia URL found
 [11:41] Tao Takashi: these are the times of perpetual betas though
 [11:41] Tess Linden: oh yes, there is so much to do during the Beta, I don't think anybody is arguing that
 [11:41] Zha Ewry: I personaly have my own list of horrible things inside my code to fix too
 [11:41] You: Its ok. One step at a time is just fine. We will move forward faster that way. I just need to make sure the perceptions are not out of line with reality over the next few months.
 [11:42] Zha Ewry: (there's also some discussion we need to have about how we signal how the grids cooperate, so w eknow if we do/don't need a AD handoff
 [11:42] Tess Linden: but am I hearing that we don't want to apply the patch to trunk until the Beta is done and we're actually releasing the code?
 [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: I would hope sooner Tess
 [11:42] Bill Humphries: okay, so I'd propose the plan would be to start a branch with standalone OGP support and add the features Zha mentioned above to that branch.
 [11:42] Zha Ewry: When the OpenSim core, thinks its appropriate
 [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: there really is a philosphical question as to whether it would ever be applied directly to trunk
 [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: we may well want to keep protocol code in separate modules
 [11:43] Neas Bade: no, I think you are hearing that AD handoff and having grids be able to connect but not be in the same AD is really important
 [11:43] Tao Takashi: Justin: wouldn't this be more a question of refactoring the code so these things can be plugins?
 [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: Tao: yep, that's certainly a factor
 [11:43] Zha Ewry: A bit of both, I think tao
 [11:43] Neas Bade: and something short of that, in which OpenSim is largely just extra land is a lot less interesting to a lot of opensim folks
 [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: so we may want to work towards putting the hooks into core so interop can work as a module?
 [11:43] TARDIS Wiki-Lith: Ask a question with '???' to get a Wikipedia answer

(maybe). Touch me to get the Wikipedia article used

to provide the answer.

 [11:44] You: We also have the issue of OpenSimGrid<->OpenSimGrid interop, so there may be more then one implementation of a similar notion.
 [11:44] TARDIS Wiki-Lith: Ask a question with '???' to get a Wikipedia answer

(maybe). Touch me to get the Wikipedia article used

to provide the answer.

 [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: in which case those plugins may be bundled with a separate OpenSim core kernel rather than being part of that core kernel itself
 [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: Dahlia: +1
 [11:44] You: stop typing three question marks
 [11:44] TARDIS Wiki-Lith: Ask a question with '???' to get a Wikipedia answer

(maybe). Touch me to get the Wikipedia article used

to provide the answer.

 [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: lol
 [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: I think kinic is actually working on the wikilith
 [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: *knio
 [11:45] Zha Ewry: I'd be glad to work with anyoen who wants to
 [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: pffft
 [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: KINOC
 [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: lol
 [11:45] Zha Ewry: dive into the modularity bits
 [11:45] Tao Takashi: having it on a branch should definitiely make it easier to collaborate
 [11:45] paulie Flomar: It was me playin with the wikilith. I'll cut it out. :)
 [11:45] Daxxon Kinoc: not i
 [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: the thing that concerns me about a branch is that the code there will rapidly go stale
 [11:45] You: Thanks for clarifying, Zha, Tess and Bill. I was operating under the misconception that this was a full handoff.
 [11:46] Neas Bade: Tao, we shot down the branch idea in core. The opensim code moves too fast and no one really wants to maintain a branch.
 [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: I dont see how a branch would have any advantages over a patch set
 [11:46] Zha Ewry: So far, I've been able to keep on branch wihtout too much pain
 [11:46] Neas Bade: branches in svn is the evil
 [11:46] Zha Ewry: and. I'm willing to comit to it
 [11:46] Zha Ewry: i mean trunk
 [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: depends if other people also want to work on that code I think
 [11:46] Adam Frisby: Zha: well there's an advantage there to having the seperate project on the forge then - since you can maintain that and release your in-dev code
 [11:46] Zha Ewry: I've got the stuff in placet o build and test daily
 [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: patches aren't very scalable
 [11:47] Zha Ewry: One thing I'd think we can do
 [11:47] Zha Ewry: is break it into two parts
 [11:47] Zha Ewry: the hooks
 [11:47] Zha Ewry: and the core functoin
 [11:47] Zha Ewry: at which point, we can get 90% of it in trunk
 [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: that would help
 [11:47] Tao Takashi: well, I usually prefer branches to sending patches forth and back.
 [11:47] Zha Ewry: and only have the patch out there
 [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: zha: that would be cool
 [11:47] Hiro Protagonist: one thing that concerns me is taht I know that a lot of the packet and stack code is being worked over as we speak
 [11:48] Zha Ewry: I don't touch that
 [11:48] Bill Humphries: and the core function becomes a module, Zha?
 [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: it may well be that the very parts you're depending on being stable will be moving the most quickly
 [11:48] Tao Takashi: If Zha works alone on it then ok, but if somebody should join I would see some problem.
 [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: I think that'slargely orthogonal Hiro
 [11:48] Zha Ewry: This is 90%, in parsing/responsinf to the AD
 [11:48] Hiro Protagonist bows to more knowlegable heads
 [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: just makin' sure folks
 [11:48] Zha Ewry: and.. calling back into the guts of the OpenSim world
 [11:48] Zha Ewry: (and I'm trying to focus on keepiing it seperate that way)
 [11:50] Zha Ewry: (There is some really tricky re-facoring that might imply, at some point, but it would be nice to havbe nayway, seperate out the login, fromt he state updates behind it)
 [11:50] You: Adam. I would be most interested in your opinion and guidance.
 [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: Zha: I think we're using you as cheap labour to improve our modularity ;)
 [11:50] Adam Frisby: Haha
 [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: lol
 [11:50] Bill Humphries: okay, I think I'm back.
 [11:51] Zha Ewry: That's fine with me
 [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: wb :)
 [11:51] Adam Frisby: Well, I've talked with Zha about this in person - but I think Zha's onto the right track with having some seperate patches for improving OpenSim's modularity, and the interop functionality.
 [11:51] Zha Ewry: When I get the core patch done, I'm willign to sort out other thignds I've noticed. I don't miind making thing bvetter
 [11:51] You: Oh Great Existential Wizard, Adam. What would you counsel us on the best way to move forward on the interop patch with maximum happiness and minimal frustration to all.
 [11:51] Zha Ewry: That involves good beer and decent fajitas, I think.
 [11:52] Adam Frisby: Dont look at me, I'm usually the one breaking things. >_>
 [11:52] Tess Linden: Neas I understand your concern that the patch to OpenSim doesn't create an opensim agent domain, but just because we've added coded to make the region domain work against the protcol doesn't prevent anybody else writing code to add an agent domain that works against the protocol too
 [11:52] G2 Proto: lol
 [11:52] Bill Humphries: So we have an offsite in Austin where we can get good beer and fajita's to has this out? :)
 [11:52] Adam Frisby: Tess: I think that does actually raise a valid point here -- is there a OSS project to build a agent domain?
 [11:52] Adam Frisby: A reference one that is
 [11:52] Neas Bade: no, but it prevents the way we can do grid jump today with just the region <-> client protocol
 [11:53] Adam Frisby: If not - that strikes me as a major deficiency that all parties would be best trying to fix.
 [11:53] Neas Bade: which would be a step backwards, and something that would be good not to loose
 [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: can we really do that today though? The raw jump might be possible but we would hjave asset and inventory probs, potentially
 [11:53] You: I have RL intruding and must be passive. Is someone going to get the chat log on the wiki.
 [11:54] Neas Bade: if you are changing domains of control, you are leaving that behind
 [11:54] Neas Bade: but that's ok
 [11:54] Zha Ewry: I think, looking intot he code, that, the current OpenSim code gets pretty close to being an easy basis for an agent domain, in some of the UGAS code
 [11:54] Neas Bade: it's like moving from myspace -> facebook
 [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: the trouble is I don't think you can tell the client to suddenly reload its inventory
 [11:54] Tess Linden: that just tells me that there isn't a big push for it. We've been working hard to meet these deadlines to show that interoperability works, and its amazing, but people are pushing back because they want more? why not take steps at a time and work together?
 [11:55] Zha Ewry: I think the client, often gets in the way of this
 [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I think one issue is that we want really to be protocol agnostic
 [11:55] Zha Ewry: because it's so hard to do simple hacks, on it end, which would make it easier for people to test and flow between parts of the developing envrionemnt
 [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: so potentially an opensim server could be on some protocol other than ogp, when/if there is one
 [11:56] Tess Linden: if we can get the code patched to trunk then we can all be working on the same code base to improve interoperability, and we can discuss details at this office hours, at the AWG office hour, or Zero's
 [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: and opensim itself wasn't really meant ot be a full vw implementation, really just kernel of a general vw server
 [11:56] You: I need to go. Sorry folks. Please carry on without me.
 [11:56] Bill Humphries: Okay, thanks Charles.
 [11:57] Hiro Protagonist: See ya soo Charles
 [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: tc Charles :)
 [11:57] Neas Bade: later charles
 [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bye charles
 [11:57] You: My heart is with this, but I have to pretend to work.
 [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: lol
 [11:57] Daxxon Kinoc: happy RL'ing ...
 [11:57] You: <sigh>
 [11:57] Adam Frisby: Zha: just quickly heading back 5 minutes -
 [11:57] Zha Ewry: yes?
 [11:57] Adam Frisby: Adding AD support to the opensim userserver, what needs to be done?
 [11:58] Adam Frisby: Is there some specs someone could spend a couple of days nailing out?
 [11:58] Zha Ewry: I htink, and this was a quick glance
 [11:58] Adam Frisby: And do we have a test scenario we can use?
 [11:58] Zha Ewry: you'd need to be willign to handle about four calls
 [11:58] Zha Ewry: and.. Tao, ought to be able to drive the test cases
 [11:58] Zha Ewry: Bascially, you need to tyake the place_avatar, fromt he client, in the modded form, and pass it on to the regions, as a rez or rez/de-rez pair
 [11:59] Bill Humphries: Yes, Tao, Infinity and Lochlainn have been working on a test harness as well.
 [11:59] Tess Linden: Justin: we've iterated on the OGP protocol because we think this is the common language that will define interoperability between virtual worlds. We should discuss more if there are specific pieces that a group of people don't agree with that people would want another protocol for
 [11:59] Zha Ewry: I'd be game for a discussion on how to do a sprint on that
 [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: Tess: I'm not sure OpenSim really wants to choose protocols
 [12:00] Bill Humphries: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLGOGP_Teleport_Strawman
 [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: which is why separation of the stuff into modules works for most people on the project
 [12:00] Hiro Protagonist: OpenSim wants it's users to choose protocols
 [12:00] Zha Ewry: I think Opensim, is strctured well enough to allow ipeople to pick and chose sets
 [12:01] Dahlia Trimble is going to take a rl break then head to Zero's ... bye all :)
 [12:01] Hiro Protagonist: bye Dahlia
 [12:01] Zha Ewry: I've plenty of use cases where I don't want or need a full interop set, just some parts
 [12:01] Zha Ewry: Oh. Yikes.time.
 [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Dahlia
 [12:01] Zha Ewry: I think keepign in mind, that OpenSim is a base, which can have mutiple towers is important
 [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: absolutely. Also there are many people who want to use opensim for standalone applications without any grid concerns
 [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: zha: +1
 [12:02] Adam Frisby is going to head to Zero's hours. (maybe we should look at extending the OpenSim ones since we keep running into Zeros)
 [12:02] Adam Frisby: Seeya over there
 [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey needs to eat
 [12:02] Zha Ewry: yeah, I have an hour on Tuesday when I can work. Can't have that
 [12:03] Bill Humphries: Justin, OpenSim doesn't need to be hard coded to use one protocol, I agree.
 [12:04] Tess Linden: sorry, pushed a funny button
 [12:04] Bill Humphries: But, as the AWG and Linden Lab are working on a candidate for an interopt protocol, I would hate to get blocked on moving forward.
 [12:04] Hiro Protagonist: step away from the 'big X' LoL
 [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. Which is why the module solution will hopefully be a good way forward
 [12:05] Strawberry Fride: I'm gonna head off - thanks all, see you later :)
 [12:05] Digi Fly: bye strawberry
 [12:05] Hiro Protagonist: bye :)
 [12:05] Shenlei Winkler: night, Strawberry
 [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: so that OpenSim can be bundled with various ogp modules sitting on top potentially (assuming that something doesn't crop up later on in connection with the fundamental architecture of vws)
 [12:06] paulie Flomar: I'm off, too. Good meeting. :)
 [12:06] Bill Humphries: okay
 [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: bye paulie
 [12:06] paulie Flomar: .me waves
 [12:06] Bill Humphries: So what's the intermediate step?
 [12:06] Tess Linden: I think this has been a very constructive and open conversation, and we should continue to work together to create protocols that'll make the metaverse work, whether its standalone or interoperable
 [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I do agree
 [12:07] Bill Humphries: I've heard concerns about developing that as a branch, and as a patch. But we will need a way to develop that will get us to a OGP module.
 [12:07] Hiro Protagonist: I dont question the utility of using standalone first as an intermediary step - it's just that few (if any) beyond the devs in this group run standalone
 [12:07] Tess Linden: I think the next step is Zha will refactor code to work this way, and after that would it be good enough to merge into trunk?
 [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I would think if Zha does the work to put in modular hooks
 [12:08] Hiro Protagonist: we're grid operators/region operators who operate grid attatched regions
 [12:08] Bill Humphries: How difficult would it be to take Zha's contribution and modularize it?
 [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: the modular parts can be put into trunk and then the module itself shipped either seperately or in an opensim bundle
 [12:08] Tess Linden: Hiro: I didnt know that.. good to know
 [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: there's probably a reasonable amount of work involved since I don't think we currently have modularity in that area
 [12:08] Bill Humphries: Hiro, yes, I understand that. And as we work out the kinks in standalone, then we'll be better prepared to develop grid mode.
 [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean,in the mean time perhaps someone would want to just supply an opensim build with Zha's patch applied
 [12:09] Hiro Protagonist: Understood :)
 [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: if you want to widen the testing participation as much as possible...
 [12:09] Bill Humphries: thanks, Hiro
 [12:10] BlueWall Slade: clean patches against recent svn's would be ok?
 [12:10] Bill Humphries: Yes, broad participation, so we can work out bugs in code and the protocoal.
 [12:10] Tess Linden: Justin: would it be too much to ask for that to be done during the Beta so we can get the code in earlier?
 [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, for what to be done?
 [12:10] Tess Linden: for the refactor for modularity
 [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I think as long as people put in the manpower then those patches can come in any time
 [12:11] Tess Linden: if we keep the code away from the trunk for too long then maintenance on it will be expensive
 [12:11] Hiro Protagonist: afaik, we already have much spport for modules in place - in fact, probably all
 [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
 [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: so I guess the way forward is for Zha or other interested parties to submit patches containing the modularity hooks and as much code as possible that isn't ogp specific
 [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: those can be tiny little patches at the work gets done, in principle
 [12:12] Bill Humphries: okay, so the consensus is OGP lives in a module
 [12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: for now at least - who knows what can happen in the future in principle. I mean, if it becomes HTTP then things could be different
 [12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: but I think we're concerned with concensus building in the OpenSim community
 [12:14] Carlos Roundel: hola
 [12:14] Hiro Protagonist: Hola Carlos
 [12:15] Carlos Roundel: in my region higth avatars density
 [12:15] Carlos Roundel: :DD
 [12:15] Bill Humphries: I understand, I've worked with groups that work by consensus building, and it's work, but worth the effort.
 [12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: Bill: Cool - we're definitely much the same here
 [12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: hard work but very much necessary to our project setup, I would say
 [12:16] Bill Humphries: and if you have questions about OGP, you're very welcome to join in on the process
 [12:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I would like too - unfortunately I'm horribly busy for the next couple of months
 [12:17] Axaes Xandal: very funny
 [12:17] Axaes Xandal: hehe
 [12:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think OpenSim very much progresses by coalitions of the willing - though there are strong opinions in core about keeping the project 'neutral' right now
 [12:17] Bill Humphries: are there other developers who would be interested in participating?
 [12:18] Hiro Protagonist: unfortunately, JustinCC is the last dev here
 [12:18] Justin Clark-Casey: the last puppy in the shop
 [12:18] Hiro Protagonist: heh
 [12:18] Shenlei Winkler: awwww
 [12:18] Bill Humphries: okay, that's a question I can follow up on later.
 [12:18] Justin Clark-Casey: but I know Adam and Dahlia are on the OGP list
 [12:19] Tess Linden: thanks for having me :)
 [12:19] Tess Linden: gotta run
 [12:19] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Tess
 [12:19] G2 Proto: cya Tess
 [12:19] Tess Linden: bye Justin, bye G2
 [12:19] Bill Humphries: Yes, Tess is presenting at Zero's office hours.
 [12:19] Tess Linden: bye everybody
 [12:19] Hiro Protagonist: Thanks for coming Tess
 [12:19] Bill Humphries: Thanks Tess.
 [12:19] Axaes Xandal: bye
 [12:19] G2 Proto: I'll look into the oGP list and see if we can help
 [12:20] Hiro Protagonist: every little bit helps G2
 [12:20] Hiro Protagonist: but what they really need is opensim dev representation in the ogp group
 [12:20] Hiro Protagonist: core devs
 [12:20] Bill Humphries: Great, and I'll follow up there. But I think the final takeaway is short term patch, longer term module?
 [12:20] Justin Clark-Casey: There are people in there - I'm in there though I don't have a lot of time
 [12:20] Justin Clark-Casey: bill: in my opinion, that is definitely the way to go to move the process forward
 [12:21] Hiro Protagonist: this may be heresy, but...
 [12:21] G2 Proto: hehe cool ok well I'll get involved I am mostly web mashups but I have others on my team who could help with client stuff possibly
 [12:21] Bill Humphries: Yes, as mentioned ablve Adam and Dahlia.
 [12:21] Bill Humphries: and otehrs
 [12:21] Justin Clark-Casey: The problem is, there aren't always people with time :)
 [12:21] Hiro Protagonist: I think that you guys need to quit having office hours about this - get our core group together with your engineers, and hammer this thing out
 [12:21] Justin Clark-Casey: Us not being a corporate entity and all ;)
 [12:21] Hiro Protagonist: just my 0.02$L
 [12:21] Bill Humphries: Hiro, I've pitched the idea internally about having a sprint.
 [12:22] G2 Proto: I'm willing to commit to help represent OpenSim there regularly
 [12:22] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: I think the situation needs to evolve a bit first
 [12:22] G2 Proto: OGP that is
 [12:22] Hiro Protagonist: G2: you arent OpenSIm core
 [12:22] Hiro Protagonist: no offense
 [12:22] G2 Proto: i see
 [12:22] Hiro Protagonist: but hat's whats needfull
 [12:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I reckon Dahlia and Adam will do an excellent job there though
 [12:22] Hiro Protagonist: Justin: I'm sure it will :)
 [12:22] UUID Speaker: Axaes Xandal, your key is 29540840-7c2d-4038-9089-0d429611644c
 [12:23] Rip Oxbar: hello folks
 [12:23] G2 Proto: hey Rip
 [12:23] Axaes Xandal: Hi Rip
 [12:23] Justin Clark-Casey: hi rip. You're merely 83 minutes late :)
 [12:23] Monk Zymurgy: hi axaes...has anyone made a chatlog for nebadon?
 [12:23] Bill Humphries: Justin, by evolve, what do you mean, a more fleshed out spec or acceptance?
 [12:23] Axaes Xandal: Hi Monk
 [12:23] Rip Oxbar: Charlie u here with us
 [12:23] Hiro Protagonist: Charles is not
 [12:24] Rip Oxbar: heck
 [12:24] Axaes Xandal: Next time y'all come to a meeting you should get properly dressed:--)
 [12:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I think more fleshing out really, seeing how things develop
 [12:24] Axaes Xandal: Looks like an army of clones here
 [12:24] Rip Oxbar: well i would but my clothes didnt DL
 [12:25] Digi Fly: rebake.
 [12:25] Axaes Xandal: hehe
 [12:25] Bill Humphries: hit rebake
 [12:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I think there is a lot of concern with seeing grid to grid, though I personally think getting opensim properly hooked up to thenew domain stuff is enough work
 [12:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I have to imagine that's much much easier than doing grid to grid
 [12:26] Rip Oxbar: ok everythings worn

Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-26

2009-06-12T12:31:56Z

Markuser:

[[Category:Chat Logs]]
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[[image:Tm05262009.jpg|640px|thumb|Tuesday Meeting @ Wright Plaza on OSGrid]]
 Visitor List:
 Nebadon Izumi
 Kitto Flora
 Brent Seidel
 Starky Rubble
 Astro Biology
 Richardus Raymaker
 BlueWall Slade
 paulie Flomar
 Fly Man
 Penny Lane
 Static Sprocket
 Mystical Demina
 Governor Hippo
 M1sha Dallin
 Master Dubrovna
 Ideia Boa
 Robert Graf
 Tiffany Sicling
 Marcus Llewellyn
 DJ Jenns
 Monk Zymurgy
 tx Oh
 Sherlock Reinard
 Alex Wood
 Philippe Debevec
 Total = 25
 [09:51] Nebadon Izumi: we just made it
 [09:51] Nebadon Izumi: almost had to call this off today
 [09:51] Nebadon Izumi: the sim was going crazy
 [09:51] Nebadon Izumi: but we figured it out
 [09:52] Richardus Raymaker: oh.. how crazy ?
 [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: 4 users at 150% cpu crazy
 [09:52] Richardus Raymaker: whoops
 [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [09:52] Brent Seidel: That does seem a little excessive.
 [09:52] Richardus Raymaker: many i see grey now
 [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: everyone rebake
 [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: ctrl+alt+R
 [09:52] Richardus Raymaker: does someone know here why llsetpos cannot move mor ethen 10 meters ?
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: linux might be shift+ctrl+alt+R
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: it can
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: i think
 [09:53] Brent Seidel: How about MacOS?
 [09:53] Richardus Raymaker: it seems not to work for me
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol i dont know on mac
 [09:53] Richardus Raymaker: try to make simple elevator
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: its the Mac ALT R maybe?
 [09:53] paulie Flomar is Offline
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: whatver that special mac key is called
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: i forget
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [09:53] Brent Seidel: Am I wearing jeans now? If so, then ctrl+alt+R worked.
 [09:53] Starky Rubble: Advanced->Character->Rebake
 [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: no brent
 [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: your grey still for me
 [09:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon looks ok, kitto to starky is ok
 [09:54] paulie Flomar is Online
 [09:54] Richardus Raymaker: astro look red+grey
 [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [09:54] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9658 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)
Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: standard ruth for astro
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus your black from head to toe
 [09:55] paulie Flomar is Offline
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: you on 2nd monitor?
 [09:55] BlueWall Slade is Online
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: doh
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: there it goes
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: i see you
 [09:55] Richardus Raymaker: sit pose maby
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya possible
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: looks fine now
 [09:56] paulie Flomar is Online
 [09:56] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
 [09:56] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
 [09:56] Richardus Raymaker: 150% cpu. spound like some endless nexted loop somewhere
 [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: its asset cache
 [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: its totally fubar
 [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: you must disable it
 [09:56] Richardus Raymaker: hi paulie
 [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: or suffer its wrath
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [09:57] kidd piko is Offline
 [09:57] paulie Flomar: hey hey
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: hola
 [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: i still run 9624. so maby i dont have the problem
 [09:57] Starky Rubble: blu n grey Brent
 [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: brent looks ok
 [09:57] kidd piko is Online
 [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: bluewall not (HI)
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya paulie you need a rebake
 [09:57] sim core is Online
 [09:57] Starky Rubble: rebake
 [09:57] Brent Seidel: Remind me not to stand up again.
 [09:58] sim core is Offline
 [09:58] Richardus Raymaker: ductapes brent to chair
 [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [09:58] Brent Seidel: I hope that helps.
 [09:58] Fly Man: Much better
 [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: sim feels good
 [09:59] Richardus Raymaker: do we have grey problem now more becasue disabled cache. i have the idea it dont make much difference if its off
 [10:00] Starky Rubble: we live in exciting times lol
 [10:00] Kitto Flora: Are there any special ini settings to enable vehicles?
 [10:00] Starky Rubble: hehe
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: just enable Meshmerizer and ODE
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: only way vehicles will work
 [10:00] Kitto Flora: Ode I have
 [10:00] Kitto Flora: checking mesh
 [10:00] BlueWall Slade is Offline
 [10:01] Starky Rubble: but vehicles are mostly mysterious still
 [10:01] Kitto Flora: Ah it has Zeromesh
 [10:01] Kitto Flora: Will that kill vehicle?
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:02] Kitto Flora: TY
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: zero mesher everythigns abox
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: not good for vehicles
 [10:02] BlueWall Slade is Online
 [10:02] Richardus Raymaker: a phantiom box
 [10:02] Kitto Flora: That unfortunate setting has lost 2 weeks of work
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: bummer
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: Charles wont be here today
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: he is in Hawaii
 [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: anything anyone wants to talk about?
 [10:03] paulie Flomar: I'm still gray..rebaking..
 [10:03] Richardus Raymaker: can enabled cache grash the sim also to 0fps. i have seen that a few times the last week
 [10:03] Richardus Raymaker: sims crash to 0fps
 [10:04] Fly Man: Hmm, we need a twitterbox in here *rofl*
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: possibly
 [10:04] Kitto Flora: If that is the casue of vehicle not working, then the ini file comments are misleading.
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: its consuming all the CPU
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: so anythings possible i would think
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: might be able to relate a large # of issues asset cache
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say
 [10:05] Fly Man: Hey Mystical
 [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, kitto. you sid a bit strange
 [10:05] Fly Man: Have a seat
 [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i changed the psoes fly man
 [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: this couch has a variety of poses
 [10:05] Fly Man: Nice
 [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: depending on what cushion you sit on
 [10:05] Brent Seidel: Interesting.
 [10:05] Kitto Flora: Whats stange about that comment?
 [10:06] Brent Seidel: Does the pose include what happens when you stand?
 [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: he meant sit kitto i think
 [10:06] paulie Flomar: How can we run the proper console to get colors back with -gui=true?
 [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: cant apparently
 [10:06] paulie Flomar: ah. ok
 [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: color has been removed from that
 [10:06] paulie Flomar: ok
 [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: GUI doesnt support colors
 [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: is the issue
 [10:06] paulie Flomar: ah'ight
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: GUI though in our case is being used probbaly not the best term
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: GUI means non 80x25 console
 [10:07] paulie Flomar: yeah.
 [10:07] paulie Flomar: keeps console from crashing on resize
 [10:07] Static Sprocket: If I remember correctly -gui=true, means you are putting opensim behind a 3rd party GUI, so it doesn't make sense to do any kind of fancy output
 [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: i hope the fix the screen bug "top" crash with opensim.
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: correct static
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: its very basic
 [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: aha. but i cannot add gui=true
 [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: maby now hypergrid is gone it works again
 [10:08] paulie Flomar: could gui=true go in startup_commands.txt?
 [10:08] M1sha Dallin is Online
 [10:08] Mystical Demina: what is the movie that is being played?
 [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: its a Demo from Demoscene competitions
 [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: by Farbrausch
 [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: called Debris
 [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: the entire program is 177kilobytes
 [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: i frapsed it
 [10:08] paulie Flomar: OH, btw. Cameo Beach is statically linked to Playneko, for HG testing, for now.
 [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: Do you know a not so bad opensim version ?
 [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=30244
 [10:09] paulie Flomar: I'm running 9673. Seems ok.
 [10:09] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9658 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)
Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
 [10:09] paulie Flomar: But, ummv, I guess.
 [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: 9658 here
 [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: im at 9624
 [10:10] Starky Rubble: 38 here lol
 [10:10] Brent Seidel: I'm running 0.6.5-release at home. No major weirdness yet.
 [10:10] paulie Flomar: Neb, do we wanna share our thoughts on Linden PInes slowdown? Or is the jury still out onthat?
 [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats hard to say
 [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: what i think it is paulie
 [10:10] paulie Flomar: k
 [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: is excessive use of linden plants
 [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: in general
 [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: they sway
 [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: its harsh on the GPu
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: if you look around WP
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: you might notice i removed about 200 plants
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: its improived it about 5-10fps
 [10:11] paulie Flomar: I would think my 9800 could handle some swaying plants. Hey, Nvidia, gimme my moneh back! lol
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: in some cases
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: i would say its written poorly
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: not your hardware
 [10:11] paulie Flomar: yeah, I'm just playin. ;)
 [10:12] Static Sprocket: do the plants stop swaying if you kill wind? that could be another route you could go...
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
 [10:12] Richardus Raymaker: \i have only seen a big impact when i tested the treeplanter with 100 LL tree's
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: possibly
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:12] M1sha Dallin: I've got 1000 Linden Pines on my regions - haven't noticed a problem
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: i probably erased close to 200 plants here last night
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to tell
 [10:12] Richardus Raymaker: correect, it works fine on yours. min where tested on vps
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: but if you inspect the bushes around the fountain
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: you will see
 [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: most of it was down around the fountain
 [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: i have it now so facing WP from paulies sim i was getting 20-25 fps myself
 [10:13] Penny Lane: Better fix the code, or the whole grid will get defoliated :-)
 [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: bought the best i could do withhout completely destroying the region
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: personally
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i think this is a viewer issue
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: not related to opensim
 [10:14] Penny Lane: Can the tree animation be turned off?
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: turning off wind may help
 [10:14] paulie Flomar: no wind might work
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: needs to be tested
 [10:14] paulie Flomar: yeah
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: it could be why we have seen a drastic drop recently too
 [10:14] paulie Flomar: I'll disable wind on Cameo and see hoe it goes.
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: as the wind module was changed
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: probably within the last month or so
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: 2 months
 [10:15] paulie Flomar: yeah, maybe the wind module is sendin updates
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: if you notice
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: when you turn
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: the trees shake violentlyt for a second
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats why
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: even my flexi trees do it
 [10:16] Starky Rubble: or add Saguaro Cactos to thr trees list
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: they kinda fluff out when they come into view
 [10:16] Brent Seidel: Does anyone know what the [trees] section in the .ini file does?
 [10:16] paulie Flomar: wind disabled on Cameo. I'll test later.
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: you can grow trees Brent
 [10:16] paulie Flomar: Brent, yeah
 [10:16] Kitto Flora: Which client, Nebadon?
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: its fun
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: i think all Clients Kitto
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: they all suck
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [10:16] Static Sprocket: The default wind settings are very much as they have been, which is completely random, with updates every few seconds. Switching out from the default wind plug-in, or just setting it to zero wind values via INI should send wind updates to client with velocity of 0,0,0
 [10:16] Richardus Raymaker: you can create ghoas :))
 [10:16] Penny Lane: I always wondered why animation is saved up when out of sight, seems odd.
 [10:16] paulie Flomar: you enable it and then say trees plant from the console. YOu will see many trees start growin.
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: yes but here static
 [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: i have been playing with those settings
 [10:17] Static Sprocket nods
 [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: this region is not using default wind
 [10:17] Brent Seidel: Ah. That's the part that I missed. I enabled it, but didn't see anything.
 [10:17] paulie Flomar: I tried the tree grower on on eof my regions. It grew LOTSA trees. HUge ones.
 [10:17] M1sha Dallin: You can turn tree rendering off from the advanced menu
 [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya do they poof M1sha?
 [10:17] Brent Seidel: I'll have to try it.
 [10:17] Kitto Flora: I have noticed a strangeness with recent linden clients: They seem to queue av gesturres when the av is out of screen, and run them whenevr av gets into screen. If the same thing is happening with tree motion - its a queuing thing
 [10:17] M1sha Dallin: Linden trees disappear
 [10:18] Static Sprocket: depending on which plugin your using, you can just go to console and set wind speed to zero, and see if it does anything
 [10:18] M1sha Dallin: neb's don't
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool
 [10:18] Static Sprocket shrugs
 [10:18] Ideia Boa: Hello all, sorry I'm late
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: if your CPU spikes up we know its linden trees
 [10:18] Brent Seidel: Hello Ideia
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: sorry FPS
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: not CPU
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: my testing seemed pretty conclusive last night
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: removing bushes and trees
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: and CPU went up
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: add them back it falls
 [10:19] Richardus Raymaker: fps i hope
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: just fps
 [10:19] Starky Rubble: hee
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: its all client side
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: no server lag
 [10:19] M1sha Dallin: Brent - I have a more controlled trees module to submit
 [10:19] Brent Seidel: That could be fun to play with.
 [10:19] Governor Hippo: I dont think trees or flexies are rendered until they are in camera view, so any accumulated effects of wind or gravity wont appear for a while
 [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: but
 [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: when flexis come into view
 [10:20] Governor Hippo: ti happens on SL too
 [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: they puff out
 [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: and flail about wildly for a few seconds
 [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if its related
 [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: but it seems likely to me it is
 [10:21] Monk Zymurgy is Online
 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: nothings totally definitive yet it needs more testing
 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: for sure
 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: but i think its good to use linden trees with caution until were sure
 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: if you guys could do some testing
 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: that would be great
 [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: not so happy with linden tree's the look bad from distance
 [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think its all the trees either
 [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: i think its only certain ones that are the main cause
 [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: some of the bushes and the pine trees
 [10:22] Gabe Salgado is Offline
 [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: seem to be worst offenders
 [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: the oak type trees seem ok
 [10:22] Governor Hippo: what is the problem you see? is it crashing or something?
 [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: need to watch the ferns. that i will use.
 [10:23] Snoopy Pfeffer is Offline
 [10:24] paulie Flomar: Has anyone played with the new ini system? Questions there?
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: i have
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: i just updated this region this morning
 [10:24] Richardus Raymaker: yu mean the split option ?
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa too
 [10:24] Sabi Maus is Online
 [10:24] paulie Flomar: I hear that the system is not "official" yet. But Im playin with it.
 [10:24] paulie Flomar: yeah
 [10:24] paulie Flomar: the includes
 [10:24] paulie Flomar: thoughts?
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: works good
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: its not required though
 [10:25] paulie Flomar: Once you get past the map error. :)
 [10:25] Brent Seidel: I like the idea of includes, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: you can consolidate it all into 1 ini
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: if you so desire
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: just make sure your using the options in the split
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: make sure you disable asset cache
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: it seems to be a major issue
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: cause for excessive CPU
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: 4-5 times higher CPU
 [10:26] Richardus Raymaker: wich version requires the disabled cache ?
 [10:26] Sabi Maus is Online
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: all
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: under no circumstance run asset cache right now
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: its just bad
 [10:26] paulie Flomar: Neb, I have AssetCache commented out in ini. Is that enough to disable it or doe s it have to be explicitly disabled?
 [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: ok.
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: comment out is fine
 [10:27] paulie Flomar: k
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: i would comment out bucket too
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: cache bucket
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: in the GridCommon.ini
 [10:27] paulie Flomar: k
 [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: so far though it seems to work well if everything is set proper
 [10:28] paulie Flomar: the split ini?
 [10:28] Richardus Raymaker: gridcommon.ini thes only for gridserver ?
 [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: its for the simulator
 [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: the connection info to assets currently
 [10:30] Tiffany Sicling is Online
 [10:30] Sam Suell is Offline
 [10:31] Richardus Raymaker: diasable assetcaching ?that line
 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: and cache buckets
 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: and just so everyone knows we have a upcoming cut off
 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: today or tommorow sometime
 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: keep checking twitter
 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: http://twitter.com/osgrid
 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: your simulators will be denied access once i make the switch
 [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: but i'll do my best to make things go smooth for everyone
 [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: more likely it will occur tommorow
 [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: you wont be kicked off grid i dont think
 [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: but when you restart it wont let you on again
 [10:32] Ideia Boa: nice fellow
 [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: you will be prompted with a red message telling you to upgrade
 [10:33] Sabi Maus is Online
 [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: i will make binaries available before switching
 [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: but they wont be able to connect until the switch occurrs
 [10:34] Richardus Raymaker: upgrade to wich version then ?
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: i'll let you know shortly before the change
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: i have not decided yet
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: i'll make sure there is ample notice
 [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: would be nice if you make the red messages with bigger font.
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: where?
 [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: on the loginscreen ? thats only red message i know
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ah yes but lower rezzes it pushes stuff off the screen
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: i'll see what i can do to make it more obvious
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: lower rez monitors its already tight
 [10:36] Ideia Boa: and OSGRID's frontpage
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: i wont accomidate anything below 1024x768 though
 [10:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Perhaps simply making it bold would be sufficient, if it is not already.
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya i can do that
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: that might help
 [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: yes. i know. and on big screen you never look at it because you miss the window. its a bit out of sight :)
 [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: not possible to make a more wider windows on top of login screen ?
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: possible yes
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: but its alot of work
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: on a website that wont be around much longer
 [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: sorry bottom login screen , close to the buttons
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i think my time is better spent
 [10:37] paulie Flomar is Online
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i can make news item though
 [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: work, yes. :( smething not what you want
 [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: best thing we can do is plaster it all over the place
 [10:38] Ideia Boa: Neb, is it possible to put the Wiki hours in the googlecalender?
 [10:39] Richardus Raymaker: are ther emore changes needed, or can we use the ini from 9624 ?
 [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure wiki hours is still going on
 [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: is it?
 [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: wiki hour never was popular
 [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: like 2 people would show up
 [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to get people excited about editng the wiki
 [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: i know Mark has taken on the mantle of reworking the entire wiki
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we can coordinate with him
 [10:40] Brent Seidel: There have lately been a couple of people furiously editing it.
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: so were not stepping on his toes
 [10:40] Ideia Boa: It was nice that they work, there are things to discust about the wiki
 [10:40] Static Sprocket: offer wiki editors preferential grid coords ;-)
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: i wish i could
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: something we still have yet to work out
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: is reservations
 [10:40] Ideia Boa: only 2 or 3
 [10:40] monk-spikes-v2.5b: Script running
 [10:40] Fly Man: Yes
 [10:40] spike: Script running
 [10:40] spike: 15
 [10:40] Fly Man: that's definitly something you need to work on Neb ;)
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think once Elgg is inplace
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: that will be easier
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: Jamenai has been converting Wi modules for ELgg
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: he has handed off several peices to adam already
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: the map
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: and region list
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: RSS feed
 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: couple other things he is working on now
 [10:42] Eryn Galen is Online
 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: so hopefully we can get on Elgg soon
 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: still no ETA yet
 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: but soon
 [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: hmm what else
 [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: so much going on
 [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: hows groups testing going?
 [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they like or hate about groups so far?
 [10:44] Static Sprocket: Yeah, people keep expecting it to work ;-)
 [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: is it not working?
 [10:44] paulie Flomar: groups seems to work for me. Is the proper groups URL still groups2?
 [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: if your unware groups testing is back on
 [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/download/Groups.txt
 [10:44] paulie Flomar: Is the groupd module in SVN now or do we need to update it manually when it changes?
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: everyone is welcome to rejoin groups testing again
 [10:45] Static Sprocket: Use what's in opensim SVN
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:45] paulie Flomar: k
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: just add the txt above to your ini
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: replace whats there
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: you want to be relatively update too
 [10:45] Static Sprocket: the flotsom site is my day to day development, and is really a bad place to get the code, unless your referred there for a specific version to test {usually from hanging out in #osgroups}
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: id say run atleast what this region is running
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: no groups is in SVN now
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: you dont need anything from the flotsam werbsite
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: to run groups on osgrid
 [10:46] paulie Flomar: great
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: just add the txt above to your ini
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: and restart it
 [10:46] paulie Flomar: same for search?
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: no
 [10:46] paulie Flomar: k
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: search still needs modules
 [10:46] paulie Flomar: ah'ight
 [10:46] Richardus Raymaker: to bad i can never read the version good in estate toold. the last number is always lost
 [10:46] Fly Man: Yeah, nebadon
 [10:46] Richardus Raymaker: you run 965
 [10:47] Fly Man: who does the DNS settings for the Osgrid ?
 [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: we do
 [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: why?
 [10:47] Fly Man: search.osgrid.org
 [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: for what?
 [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: the url?
 [10:47] Fly Man: Search
 [10:47] Fly Man: objects and other stuff
 [10:48] paulie Flomar: RR, i saw recent committ note that says that the vesion will be truncated to 27 chars exactly in latest vesion. That should make it fit bette rin estate tools dialog, I think.
 [10:48] tx Oh: the number of grey people increses
 [10:48] Richardus Raymaker: maby short opensimulator.
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think thats a pretty common problem tx
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure anyone quite knows why that crept back in yet
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: it seems alot of bugs that have been fixed are back again
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: ghosts
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: grey avatars
 [10:49] Richardus Raymaker: it started with the new assets config sofar i know
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: things that have been fixed a 1/2 dozen times already
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: keep getting put back into the code
 [10:50] Penny Lane: Regression testing ......
 [10:50] Monk Zymurgy: it is a good crowd here...what is the av count?
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: 21
 [10:50] Penny Lane: 20
 [10:50] Marcus Llewellyn: 21 people
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: if your using a radar remember to count yourself
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: i always forget to do that too
 [10:51] paulie Flomar: and version will have "flavour," now. :)
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya i cant say i fully undestand the flavor thing yet
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: but im sure it will be beneficial
 [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see 18 here
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its onyl been in SVN a few hours though
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: map shows 21
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: lets see what console says
 [10:52] Ideia Boa: 21
 [10:52] Sherlock Reinard is Online
 [10:52] Alex Welch is Online
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: 20
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: according to console
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: but who knows
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: these #'s are never right
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:53] tx Oh: lol
 [10:54] Monk Zymurgy counts legs and divides by 2
 [10:54] tx Oh: it's quiet inhere
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [10:54] Sherlock Reinard: haha
 [10:54] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, Sherlock.
 [10:54] Sherlock Reinard: hi paulie
 [10:54] Richardus Raymaker: hi sherlock
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: trying to think what else is a hot topic
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: like 80 things a day change
 [10:55] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9658 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)
Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: hard to remember
 [10:55] Richardus Raymaker: any important osgrid news ?
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone has anything feel free to speank up
 [10:55] Penny Lane: Neb, is there any kind of info on the Groups implementation?
 [10:55] paulie Flomar: any changes / improvements to voice functionality?
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: well just the cut off tommorow
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: we have downtime scheduled for the 3rd also
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: up to 6 hours
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: at 1am
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: we are upgrading asset server again
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: just the software
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: no db changes
 [10:56] Kitto Flora: Seems I need some assistance to ge ta local sim running for vehicles, on Ubuntu. - after the meet, or later.
 [10:56] paulie Flomar: more fragstore stuff?
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: ok Kitto
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: no
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: we are ditching Cable Beach
 [10:56] paulie Flomar: oh!
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: for the new asset server in SVN
 [10:56] paulie Flomar: Its not fragstore based?
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: you wont see any changes
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: it is
 [10:56] Richardus Raymaker: busy to install one here in VB, so i can test some scripts for start and stop etc.
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: SVN Asset + fragstore
 [10:56] paulie Flomar: k
 [10:57] Penny Lane: Ditching completely from sources?
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: from osgrid
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: cable beach is not in the opensimulator SVN
 [10:57] Penny Lane: Aha
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we are using a very customized Asset server right now
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we are switching to the SVN version
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: short term
 [10:57] Alex Welch is Offline
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: none fo the current options will last us long
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we need something way more robust within a year
 [10:57] Sherlock Reinard is Offline
 [10:58] Richardus Raymaker: some change needed in the ini then ? ore is the current used asset settings ok ?
 [10:58] Penny Lane: And scalable
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: no
 [10:58] paulie Flomar: do we have a long term asset plan ?
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: no changes in the sim
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: we are working one out
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: nothing final
 [10:58] paulie Flomar: its a hard question, yeah
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: yes and an expensive one
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: if not done right
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: we need to explore all options completly
 [10:58] paulie Flomar: even IF done right, heh
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: distributd loadbalanced service wont be cheap likely
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: Adam claims we will be fine until we have about 5000 concurnet connections
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: which is sooner than we think
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: it will happen faster than we want it too im sure
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: how much is the asset grown since last time.
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: almost 400k assets
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: since the conversion
 [11:00] tx Oh: yes, but i wish we had 5000 concurent avi's :-)
 [11:01] Master Dubrovna: What is the percentage of growth per month?
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: well # of assets is goiing to be higher than actual assets
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: we hash and compare and disacard dupes
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: so if you upload something that already exists
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be stored a 2nd time
 [11:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Nice.
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: just the UUID will be associated with the already existing asset
 [11:02] tx Oh: clver
 [11:02] Brent Seidel: That's handy
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: this buys us lots of time
 [11:02] Master Dubrovna: nice
 [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: thats good
 [11:02] paulie Flomar: so every update of a prim isnt stored as a completely seperate asset?
 [11:02] Brent Seidel: What about clearing out orphans?
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: its nearly impossible for us to do that
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: being we cant view all the region databases
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and we arent datestamping last access
 [11:03] Brent Seidel: Ah.
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: to expensive
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it would kill the asset server
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: to datstamp all these requests
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: performance would be 1/5th what it is now
 [11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah... let's not do that. ;)
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: how will you keep thing clean in the futere then. like notecards. many or only used short. but the keep hanging around in asset server
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: eventually we might be able to archive less used assets
 [11:04] Static Sprocket wonders about keeping local datestamp caches on the regions and having them periodically send a datestamp update list to the asset servers
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and keep just the most reequested assets on a very high performaing box
 [11:04] Mystical Demina: i would think that 90% of the assets are locat to a sim and do't need to be globally accessed so could be stored locally
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: then when dead assets are called on again
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: they will be moved from archival
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: to the main services
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: this is what lindens do
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but thats way way off
 [11:05] Penny Lane: Not sure if retreading LL's path is a good idea ...
 [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: yes. only Linded implemeted it very late sofar i know
 [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: yes its fairly new there too
 [11:07] Marcus Llewellyn: You know what would be nice... some way to mark certain assets with some sort of expiry date. Some textures, for example, or only needed for a limited time. The ones created by the osDrawing functions is a good example.
 [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its also very expensive what they use
 [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its like 20k a license for their datastorage
 [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: they have over 100 now
 [11:08] Tiffany Sicling: what does LL use ?
 [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: i forget the name now
 [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: adam knows
 [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: but they have spent well over 2 million USD
 [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: on their asset storage system
 [11:08] tx Oh: infinity storage
 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: we obvioulsy need something more cost effective
 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:09] Tiffany Sicling: and they probably paid for that with all the L$10 uploads
 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the scary part
 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: Linden grid wasnt this large
 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: as we are
 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: until about ther 3-4 years
 [11:09] Penny Lane: Heh. We need to find a way to store our assets in Gmail ;-))))
 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: took us 2 years
 [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: sorta scary
 [11:10] paulie Flomar: They use Silicon Mechanics boxes, I think.
 [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:10] Tiffany Sicling: would be nice if there was a way to store assets in the client
 [11:10] paulie Flomar: http://www.siliconmechanics.com/
 [11:10] Penny Lane: Oh, can we talk about that? Storing assets in the client?
 [11:10] Starky Rubble: Ouch
 [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: we can but we cant do anything about it
 [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: we dont control the viewer
 [11:10] sim core is Offline
 [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: nor can OpenSim devs work on viewer
 [11:11] Starky Rubble: or the bandwidth
 [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but sure we can talk about it :)
 [11:11] Tiffany Sicling: actually, it would solve a lot of issues
 [11:11] Starky Rubble: well sure...
 [11:12] Kitto Flora: Security?
 [11:12] Tiffany Sicling: enhances that too
 [11:12] Mystical Demina: seems more could be stored locally with the sim, and only images that are existing across multiple sims or attached to avi's need to be global, seems we could cascade local stoorage into global storage and sim owners would bear more cost
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya remember too
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: asset cache doesnt work
 [11:13] Starky Rubble: unless your region neighbors one whose pipe is skinny
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: probably never has
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i think once its fixed
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: we'll see even more improvemnet than with it disabled
 [11:13] Tiffany Sicling: or rather, when an av rezzes something, transfer all needed textures, scripts, etc. associated with the asset to the region, and if another takes a copy, transfer all that is needed to the client.
 [11:14] Tiffany Sicling: retain creation and perms
 [11:14] Penny Lane: Something here is taking me down to 0 FPS periodically, from my normal 17 FPS.
 [11:14] Kitto Flora: squic?
 [11:14] Kitto Flora: squid?
 [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: video maybe Penny?
 [11:14] Penny Lane: Not on. I'll disable from panel just in case
 [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: k videos have been playing this whole time
 [11:15] Brent Seidel: Well, I must run along.
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ok Brent
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya we are running long meeting today
 [11:15] Brent Seidel: removes duct tape that Richardus used.
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: we can keep chatting though
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i dont mind
 [11:15] Kitto Flora: Does OpenSim use squid?
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: region is running awesome
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: no Kitto
 [11:15] Brent Seidel: Lets see how far I fly when I stand up this time. Last time I almost made it to the sandbox.
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: some people have experimented
 [11:15] Penny Lane: Now that I can type again .... re local storage of assets, don't forget that there are other clients, not just the LL one.
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ive not heard of many success stories with squid
 [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: bye brent
 [11:16] Kitto Flora: On OpenSim Nebadon? Or are you caliming LL's use is flawed too?
 [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: no just opensim
 [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea if lindens even use squid anymore
 [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i heard they did at one point long while back
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but im not sure if thats the case anymore honestly
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: im sure they are using something though
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: just not sure if its still squid
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but in terms of OpenSIm
 [11:17] Kitto Flora: ok
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive not heard anyone say it helps
 [11:17] Tiffany Sicling: brb
 [11:17] Tiffany Sicling is Offline
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: most people get frustrated trying to make it work
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive never tired
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but
 [11:17] Penny Lane: Being able to have assets on the client, which are uploaded to sim automatically (if worn) would help interop a lot. You could just arrive at a sim casually, and everyone present would automatically see what you're wearing.
 [11:17] M1sha Dallin: I've tried it
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there is a squid like app on Forge now
 [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: let me get you the link
 [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/badumnasim/
 [11:18] M1sha Dallin: I think it helped get sculpty's rez'd a little quicker - was marginal
 [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: i really dont know how this works
 [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but i think it works like squid
 [11:19] Starky Rubble: On a diffo topic it would be great if the INI example were more like what most folks use... with ODE, MM, grid, groups, etc.
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: actually
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: anyone can split it up now
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: if they want
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: use the same format
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: if you so desire you can break it up into 30 files
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: theres no limit
 [11:19] Starky Rubble: yikes
 [11:20] Starky Rubble: its already hard to keep up lol
 [11:20] Dorothea Lundquist is Online
 [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya its not something i really recommend doing
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: but you can if you want
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:21] Penny Lane: The 0 FPS hasn't returned since I unticked the media boxes in panel. Your media must be set to something pretty odd that kills LL's client.
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: do you have Quicktime installed?
 [11:21] Kharmen Spad is Online
 [11:21] Penny Lane: Nope, this is Linux
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ah
 [11:21] Penny Lane: OpenAL+gstreamer
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: gstreamer
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: and video wasnt playing?
 [11:21] Penny Lane: But it plays video fine in SL
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: strange
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ive used linux here
 [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but its been a while
 [11:23] Monk Zymurgy: my video works..ubuntu
 [11:23] Arnout Sequent is Offline
 [11:23] Monk Zymurgy: wish i had a faster PC though }: |
 [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: my video still dont work ununtu 64
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think gstreamer has issues in x64
 [11:24] Penny Lane: Can you tell which gstreamer module was loaded, Monk?
 [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: openAL need to be disabled here = crash hippo
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: probabably have to role you own
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: in 64
 [11:24] Starky Rubble: It`s been grand, folks... the sim stayed up and everthing! i have to run tho see yaz!
 [11:24] Arnout Sequent is Online
 [11:24] JayMaze Yao is Online
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: see ya starky
 [11:25] Starky Rubble is Offline
 [11:25] Penny Lane: Cyu Starky
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: great meeting though
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: im very happy with performance today
 [11:25] BlueWall Slade is Offline
 [11:26] Penny Lane: Is the video playing here continuously? If so I'll come back later with other client(s) to test.
 [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: no
 [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but
 [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: go to the movie theatre
 [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: its like 100m from here
 [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: you can ondemand most of these
 [11:26] Penny Lane: Ah yeah, seen it. Good idea, cheers
 [11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: Will the chat log from today's meetin' be posted somewhere? I missed most of it. Heh
 [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: bye starky
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i will post it on the wiki shortly
 [11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: Thanks. :)
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i will post on IRC
 [11:27] Arnout Sequent is Offline
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: or search for "office hours"
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: on the wiki
 [11:28] Marcus Llewellyn nods amiably. :)
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: you just reminded me to take a screenshot for the logs
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: done
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i'll post it soon
 [11:29] paulie Flomar: goin back to cameo. bye, all. good meeting. :)
 [11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: No rush on my account. lol
 [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ok paulie
 [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming
 [11:29] Penny Lane: Cyu paulie
 [11:30] Ideia Boa: cu all, nice meeting
 [11:30] Penny Lane: How could my pose have changed all by itself?
 [11:30] tx Oh: yeah. was nice
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Penny
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: the pose changed?
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: oh your standing
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: probably a bug
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: stand and sit again
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: probably fix those wierd bugs
 [11:31] Penny Lane: I see myself as kneeling now, but was sitting cross-legged.
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i would just stand and sit again
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: proabbly got confused
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: when someone else stuff
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: being that couch is 1 linkset
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: probably a bug
 [11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: Half the people sitting appear to be kneeling when I arrived. Heh. Astro here is floating well above the sofa from my viewpoint as well.
 [11:33] Penny Lane: Oh, talking about scripting bugs, reminds me of something that someone wrote to the Opensim group in SL overnight.
 [11:33] Penny Lane: The person wrote something like "Almost every SL script has to be rewritted to work in Opensim". Is that correct?
 [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: kitto is floating
 [11:34] Kitto Flora mditates
 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: well
 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: partially true Penny
 [11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: I wouldn't say so, Penny from my experience. Depend son how complex the script is, and how it was written.
 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: right now with the current state of LSL
 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: not all scripts work as is
 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its going to take a very long time for 1:1 behavior
 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and some functions wont ever be the same
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: since lindens keep their source closes
 [11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: For example, when some people do a for loop in a SL script, they don't always initialize the iterator... that works in SL, bit not here.
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i would file mantis reports
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: for inconsistancies between here and SL with LSL
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis
 [11:35] Kitto Flora: It appears to me that OS 'LSL' has a problem with tests. Result of test MUST be Boolean? Does not always ato-typecast integer to boolean?
 [11:35] Penny Lane: I'm not even sure it's a worthwhile goal to chase LL's tail lights on LSL. It's such a crappy system anyway.
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but its good we get close atleast
 [11:36] Kitto Flora: So - if you have an old SL scrit that takes liberties with if(), it may not work right
 [11:36] Penny Lane: Aha
 [11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: There are some scope issues as well... local scopes in SL seem to be more robust than here.
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya LSL is far from complete
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: people are throwing numbers around like 90% complete
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i disagree 100% with those statements
 [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: lol
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: LSL is far from complete
 [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: We may have 90% of the functions working to some degree... but that's not the same as having complete 90% compatibility.
 [11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: Bottom line right now is... simnple scripts usually work. With more complex ones, be prepared to make edits, and possibly submit a mantis or two.
 [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: wpuld be nice if we hav egood working elvators :O
 [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: agreed
 [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: what about the one in the freebie garden
 [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that one works great for me
 [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: i tried that one, need to modify it. then it did not want what i planend after that
 [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: you mean your elevator ? need to try it again
 [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have it boxed up
 [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: in a vendor box
 [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its on the wall of blue boxes
 [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: 3 Person elevator
 [11:42] M1sha Dallin: Thanks Neb - bye for now
 [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i even saw someone make a hot air baloon on SeaPrior
 [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: using that elevator
 [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: will look at that again
 [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: by M1sha
 [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: see ya soon :)
 [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: by m1sha
 [11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Speaking of the freebie building...
 [11:42] Penny Lane: Cyu M1sha
 [11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: If we have a new one, should we just rez it in an area that look appropriate? Or is there a drop-off area for you to sort it?
 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: you can either drop it off in the feild
 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: and i'll do it for you
 [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: i placed my directly at the wall
 [11:43] M1sha Dallin is Offline
 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: or you can place it in a appropriate area
 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i'm not done so i'll likely be moving stuff around more anyway
 [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe. Okay. :)
 [11:44] Master Dubrovna: I have run into a problem after upgrading to 9658
 [11:44] Master Dubrovna: Using Mono 2.5
 [11:44] Master Dubrovna: I see this over and over
 [11:44] Master Dubrovna: ERROR - OpenSim.Region.Physics.OdePlugin.OdeScene.Ethereal Dreams [PHYSICS]: A null reference or invalid value was found [GDI+ statu$
at System.Drawing.GDIPlus.CheckStatus (Status status) [0x00000]
 [11:45] Master Dubrovna: If I go to basic physics, all runs OK
 [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: are you 64 bit?
 [11:45] Master Dubrovna: no
 [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: did you upgrade Libgdiplus too?
 [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: or just mono
 [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: there is a corresponding libgdiplus for mono 2.5
 [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: they should match up
 [11:46] Master Dubrovna: I "thought" I upgraded both
 [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: could be your problem
 [11:46] Master Dubrovna: OK
 [11:46] Master Dubrovna: I will check
 [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: mke sure its not the 1.9.1 anyway
 [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: any 2.0.1+ plus libgdi should work
 [11:46] Master Dubrovna: OK
 [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: tx ooh
 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: your youtube script fails on about 50% of youtube videos
 [11:48] tx Oh: ???
 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i just changed to youtubemp4.com as the proxy
 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and they work
 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: certain videos dont play through your proxy anymore
 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but do if i change the url in your scirpt to youtubemp4
 [11:48] tx Oh: hmmm... some never did
 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya strange
 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: youtubemp4 plays them
 [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its your script though
 [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: just differnt proxy
 [11:49] tx Oh: i check it
 [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: cool
 [11:50] Master Dubrovna: Back to work. bye all
 [11:50] tx Oh: can you give me some urls?
 [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: sure
 [11:50] Penny Lane: Cyu Master
 [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUxk5IyGgjQ
 [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nww7ywDLzY0
 [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i probably had about 15 videos not play today
 [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: once im quite sure have played through your proxy in the past
 [11:51] tx Oh: i didnt channged anything
 [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya strange
 [11:52] tx Oh: i will see what i can do
 [11:52] tx Oh: in the downntime tomorrow
 [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: youtube is pretty spotty at times
 [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: even on their website i get failurs sometimes
 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: problem with youtubemp4
 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its in japan
 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: and you get lag sometimes
 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: videos stop
 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: this ones looping over and over
 [11:54] Penny Lane: That's true, the spinning animation sometimes doesn't appear at all, and sometimes it appears but no video comes down. So think they have troubles too.
 [11:54] tx Oh: but the stream don't go through the proxy, it just delivers the mp4 url
 [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 [11:54] tx Oh: stream comes from youtube
 [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: strange
 [11:55] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9658 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)
Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
 [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i have seen major differences between your proxy and youtubemp4
 [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: youtubemp4 always has issues finishing vidoes
 [11:55] tx Oh: well.. i need to figure video.google.com anyway
 [11:55] tx Oh: it's one thing
 [11:55] Primitive: DynamicTextureModule: Error preparing image using URL http://osgrid.org/stats/graph.php?graph=4
 [11:58] Kitto Flora: I heading off to k-grid, look for assistance there
 [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: bye kitto
 [11:59] Penny Lane: Cyu Kitto
 [11:59] tx Oh: huhu
 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys im gonna run too
 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lunch time
 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: i need foooood
 [11:59] Penny Lane: Good idea
 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be on IRC if anyone needs me
 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming today
 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: great meet
 [11:59] Penny Lane: Thanks for meeting Neb
 [11:59] tx Oh: cool
 [12:00] tx Oh whispers: thanks for all your time!
 [12:00] Alex Wood: thank you
 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: see ya guys :)
 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi is Offline
 [12:00] Penny Lane: Take care :-)
 [12:00] Penny Lane: See you all, have fun :-)
 [12:00] Penny Lane waves
 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi is Online
 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: HOLD ON
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: penny
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i lost chat log
 [12:01] Penny Lane: Yep?
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: can you go to http://pastebin.ca
 [12:01] Brent Seidel: Trees are evil
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: and paste me the chat log from meeting
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: say list
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kitto Flora
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Brent Seidel
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Starky Rubble
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Astro Biology
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: paulie Flomar
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Fly Man
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Penny Lane
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Static Sprocket
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mystical Demina
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Governor Hippo
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: M1sha Dallin
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Master Dubrovna
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Ideia Boa
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Robert Graf
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Tiffany Sicling
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Marcus Llewellyn
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: DJ Jenns
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1:
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Monk Zymurgy
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: tx Oh
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Sherlock Reinard
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Alex Wood
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Philippe Debevec
 [12:01] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 25
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: or if anyone here has it
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: please
 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i cant beleive i forgot to copy it
 [12:02] Penny Lane: Lemme give you a notecard
 [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: i can copy the log
 [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok
 [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: whatever works best
 [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: thanks guys

Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-02

2009-06-12T12:31:30Z

Markuser:

[[Category:Chat Logs]]
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[[image:Tm06022009.jpg|640px|thumb|Tuesday Meeting @ Wright Plaza on OSGrid]]
 Visitor List:
 Penny Lane
 Richardus Raymaker
 Starky Rubble
 tx Oh
 M1sha Dallin
 Jamenai Luik
 paulie Flomar
 Ideia Boa
 BlueWall Slade
 Mystical Demina
 Charles Krinke
 Brent Seidel
 Kitto Flora
 Justin Clark-Casey
 nabiki landar
 Bri Hasp
 Aaron.Duffy @island.sciencesim.com:8002
 Sean Dague
 Jenniver Quandry
 Random Walker
 Userg Kohime
 Dahlia Trimble
 Romulun Rockett
 Formica Multiuso
 Arthur Valadares
 Lisp Hax
 Orion Hax
 Fredo Chaplin
 Michela Allegria
 Jasper Boram
 Vanessa Wunderlich
 Total = 31
 [09:52] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:52] Connected
 [09:52] BlueWall Slade is Online
 [09:52] Penny Lane: Hi tx :-)
 [09:53] tx Oh: huhu
 [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: hello
 [09:53] Richardus Raymaker: hello neb
 [09:53] tx Oh: hello
 [09:54] Starky Rubble: howdy
 [09:54] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:54] Connected
 [09:54] Starky Rubble: I was trying to figure out modrex installation
 [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: any luck?
 [09:54] Starky Rubble: not yet lol
 [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: say list
 [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: say list
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: help
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Script running
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List Maker started...
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: The owner can say 'help' for instructions.
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: say listy
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: say list
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Penny Lane
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Starky Rubble
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: tx Oh
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: M1sha Dallin
 [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 5
 [09:55] Richardus Raymaker: i have lag here
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: not to bad for me at the moment
 [09:55] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:55] Connected
 [09:55] tx Oh: i've heared you just copy the modrex dll into the bin dir
 [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: let me check the stats
 [09:56] Richardus Raymaker: last week where betetr
 [09:56] BlueWall Slade is Offline
 [09:56] Starky Rubble: well evidently theres a bit more - RexODE physics, etc
 [09:56] Starky Rubble: UDP ports...
 [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: hi starky
 [09:57] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:57] Connected
 [09:57] BlueWall Slade is Online
 [09:57] Starky Rubble: the examples are confusing and/or cryptic
 [09:57] Penny Lane waves at all recent arrivals
 [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: hi penny
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not really sure rexmod works in grid mode
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: i think its standalone onlyu
 [09:57] M1sha Dallin waves back
 [09:57] Ideia Boa: hey all
 [09:57] Starky Rubble: Hey Richardus (you're all black)
 [09:57] Michelle Argus is Online
 [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: not again..
 [09:58] Starky Rubble: hee
 [09:58] Richardus Raymaker: i can rename myself nbetter to MIB
 [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: everyone looks like a rebake might be in order
 [09:58] Charles Krinke is Online
 [09:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:58] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, all.
 [09:58] Connected
 [09:59] Starky Rubble: howdy
 [09:59] Penny Lane: There's definitely a difference in body texture update behaviour between SL and Opensim now. But since it's all changing shortly in 1.23 anyway, might as well not fix it yet.
 [09:59] Richardus Raymaker: so because 1.23 we have the problems ?
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: strange the wright plaza stats panel is not displaying for me
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: there a reset of the scripts fixed it
 [10:00] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:00] Connected
 [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: works fine for me
 [10:00] Charles Krinke: Mornine
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: morning
 [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: morning
 [10:00] Charles Krinke: er, morning <sigh>
 [10:00] Penny Lane: Hi Charles
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: im hoping Sean comes today
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: let me remind him
 [10:00] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, ck.
 [10:01] Kitto Flora: Hello all
 [10:01] Penny Lane: Hiya Kitto
 [10:01] Starky Rubble: hello
 [10:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
 [10:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi kitto
 [10:01] Connected
 [10:02] Bri Hasp is Online
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin
 [10:02] Brent Seidel: Greetings all
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone
 [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: Hello Nebadon
 [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hello all
 [10:03] tx Oh: hello, hello
 [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: ok Sean said he would stop by in a bit
 [10:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:03] Connected
 [10:03] Penny Lane: Hiya JCC
 [10:03] Richardus Raymaker: hello justin
 [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to start things off charles i think we can get going
 [10:04] Charles Krinke: Ok, normal first order of business. Is there a recommendation to update the "recommended" version?
 [10:04] Neas Bade is Online
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i think im going to have to rely on others this week
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i have not gotten to do much opensim testing this week
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: ive been working on the website mostly
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: battleing forum bots
 [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [10:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:04] Connected
 [10:05] Charles Krinke: Opinions of others? Personally, I am running r9744 on my regions and they are running.
 [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: im stuck at 9725, wait how newers are
 [10:05] Starky Rubble: I to am on 744 with no trubbles
 [10:05] Starky Rubble: too*
 [10:05] Bri Hasp: 744 is ok on Grid
 [10:05] BlueWall Slade: I'm on 9755
 [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: sim feels good
 [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: whatever rev this is
 [10:05] tx Oh: i can't suggest any new
 [10:05] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.5 (Dev) .9740 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)
Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
 [10:06] BlueWall Slade: this is 9740
 [10:06] Starky Rubble: but i am not sure there is much reason to change the recommended...
 [10:06] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:06] Connected
 [10:06] Jamenai Luik: mhh have to update ^^i'm 968*
 [10:06] Starky Rubble: this week
 [10:06] Jamenai Luik: + on
 [10:06] Charles Krinke: I was out last week. What is the current "recommended" ??
 [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: i have the feelking 9700 is not perfect
 [10:07] Bri Hasp: 700
 [10:07] Starky Rubble: 9700
 [10:07] Charles Krinke: I have seen a number of negative comments on r9700 on IRC in the last few days.
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya i doubt any are even close to perfect
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:07] Bri Hasp: true
 [10:07] Starky Rubble: well it was a hard week
 [10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: Hey Sean
 [10:07] Charles Krinke: We could consider 9740 (this region), 9644, 9755 or leave at 9700
 [10:07] Bri Hasp: is turbulent times
 [10:08] Charles Krinke: er 9744, not 9644
 [10:08] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:08] Connected
 [10:08] Sean Dague: Hey Charles
 [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
 [10:08] Charles Krinke: Can I suggest 9740 which is this region is usually a pretty good "recommended" if the region runs at all.
 [10:08] paulie Flomar: I've been running 9740. Seems to work fine for me.
 [10:08] Michelle Argus is Online
 [10:08] Sean Dague: Hey Justin
 [10:08] Charles Krinke: going once to r9740
 [10:08] M1sha Dallin: and me
 [10:08] Starky Rubble: sure
 [10:09] BlueWall Slade: ++
 [10:09] Charles Krinke: going twice to 9740
 [10:09] paulie Flomar: I just updated to head, which also seems ok, fwiw.
 [10:09] paulie Flomar: 9740++ from me
 [10:09] Charles Krinke: sold as r9740 as recommended for the week and we will decide on a new one next Tuesday
 [10:09] BlueWall Slade: be aware of the oar issues that are scattered
 [10:09] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:09] Connected
 [10:09] Starky Rubble: be *very* aware
 [10:09] BlueWall Slade: just check that they finish
 [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm working on a patch to explicitly abort oars that don't finish
 [10:10] paulie Flomar: nice
 [10:10] BlueWall Slade: thanks Justin
 [10:10] Charles Krinke: Next order of business is to ask for any questions, suggestions, criticisms or announcements from any core developers that are attending.
 [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: hello sean :)
 [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: rather than leaving them forever hanging. I'm hoping this will provide a better angle on what the problem is
 [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: wich version have oar problem ?
 [10:10] Michelle Argus is Offline
 [10:10] BlueWall Slade: lol, 200 revs
 [10:10] paulie Flomar: I understand that we are trying to clean up Mantis?
 [10:10] Sean Dague: I'm just happy that grad school is complete so i can start showing up again to these :)
 [10:10] Starky Rubble: rfecent vers
 [10:10] BlueWall Slade: 9603>
 [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: the oar problem that i have for a very long time. always check file size. bad ones are 16bytes
 [10:11] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:11] Connected
 [10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: Richardus: yes, that's one issue - I suspect there are multiple
 [10:11] BlueWall Slade: you have to check with tar or another archiver
 [10:11] Charles Krinke: that would be cool, Sean. We would really love to have you here. This dialog/stress test appears very useful.
 [10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon, ckrinke - I assume you are not using the standard bundled asset servers with osgrid any more?#
 [10:11] BlueWall Slade: Hi Sean
 [10:11] Sean Dague: Justin, have you thought about sha1 uuids again recently?
 [10:11] BlueWall Slade: long time
 [10:11] Sean Dague: yeh, too long
 [10:12] Starky Rubble: isn't there a change upcomong?
 [10:12] Starky Rubble: upcoming*
 [10:12] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: sean: not recently
 [10:13] Charles Krinke: I have a suggestion for the group. I would like to see this conference room used more by other groups and businesses until it becomes a scheduling problem for all of us.
 [10:13] Sean Dague: I was just thinking that the awesomeness of oar files seems to be exacerbating the dup asset issue
 [10:13] Sean Dague: I was nudging chris yeoh about it the other day as well
 [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: if you are planning to use any of the plazas for an event, just let us know we can restart it prior to the event
 [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: and monitor it as well
 [10:14] Charles Krinke: One of the things the OSGrid admins have been promoting is that everyone make oars of their regions on a regular basis since we are at the "bleeding edge" 99% of the time.
 [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sean: yeah, by default the same asset uuid is reused, but this is a potential weakness
 [10:14] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: what kind of asset server is OSGrid using these days?
 [10:14] Sean Dague: ah, ok, I didnt' realize it was pushing asset ids, I thought they were recreated on upload
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: for the next 14 hours cable beach
 [10:14] Starky Rubble: and whats up tomorrow night?
 [10:14] Charles Krinke: It is a 1TByte disk, dual-cpu fairly hot server at cari.net
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: then we are back to the SVN asset server
 [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sean: no, they are reused. Which was the cheap hack to stop dups
 [10:14] Sean Dague: ah, ok
 [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: is the code the stuff in OpenSim, or something else?
 [10:15] Sean Dague: I wonder if the lotus guys know that
 [10:15] Charles Krinke: CableBeach right now, but evolving back to the mainline svn OpenSim
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: we are using fragstore for the storage vessel
 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: adams disk based storage system
 [10:15] Sean Dague: as I think they are manually generating oars
 [10:15] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: it's not impossible that people are having oar issues because the osgrid asset server is a little different from the oine in OpenSim
 [10:15] Sean Dague: I'll have to nudge them
 [10:16] Starky Rubble: oh its tonight lol
 [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: but I think there are other issues too, some of them caused by the recent architectural changes
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: its possible
 [10:16] Charles Krinke: Can we get a Lotus rep into our "Office Hour" ?
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: we'll find out tonight
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it though Justincc
 [10:16] Sean Dague: neb, nice selection of music videos
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: it only seems to be certain regions
 [10:16] Sean Dague: charles, well it's mostly me or dr scofield
 [10:16] Sean Dague: well, we would be the likely people to show up here
 [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I suspect for some reason the asset service drops some asset requests. I'm going to implement a timeout so that the oar gets aborted and tells you a few of the uuids it never got
 [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: which is a start for fiding out if the failures are occasional or not
 [10:17] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya i myself seem to not have issue on my windows based regions
 [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: but i also get a 20ms ping to asset server
 [10:17] Charles Krinke: got it, Sean. You and Justin have prority for any discussion for the next few minutes until we open it up to the testers more, BTW.
 [10:17] Richardus Raymaker: makeing oar's is already a time consuming busniss. :(
 [10:17] Sean Dague: for linux folks, we found some "fun" memory bugs in mono 2.4 while trying to get it working on power
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya mono 2.4 is definatly bugtastic
 [10:18] Sean Dague: there is a patch we posted out to the mono-devel list for it
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: 2.5 is pretty sweet though
 [10:18] Sean Dague: which makes things much better
 [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes - it's very heavyweight
 [10:18] Charles Krinke: Are we at the stagewhere we need to be more definite on recommending mono-2.5? We have een lukewarm on that to date.
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: this region is running Mono 2.5 SVN
 [10:18] Richardus Raymaker: whereis a 2.5 source download ?
 [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: sean: there is a bit of info on the oar format in the wiki, admittedly pretty much the minimum
 [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: hang on i have new Tarball directions i created
 [10:18] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:18] Michelle Argus is Online
 [10:18] Sean Dague: panda can actually support multiple environments for the same tests
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1334
 [10:19] Charles Krinke: Should we be pushing mono-2.5 on our osgrid.org loginscreen?
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: this will install the mono 2.5 source tarball
 [10:19] Sean Dague: so I could add selected mono revs in as well
 [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: also, I think the asset cache changes remvoed my ability to explicitly remove assets, which bloats the memory requirements unless that cache is improved/tuned better
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: probably not the login
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: login is not always sim owners
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: that could be overwhelmingly confusing
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: at the login i think
 [10:19] Charles Krinke: sure, just trying to figure ot if we need to be more explicit
 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: but maybe we can be more vocal about it in other areas like the forums
 [10:20] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:20] Charles Krinke: Ok, lets open the discussion up to anything the testers wish to bring up. Keeping in mind we can go back to anything previous
 [10:20] Jenniver Quandry: does that mono patch address these creeping memory issues? http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3701
 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: ive been having pretty good success though
 [10:21] Richardus Raymaker: as long there still ones that runb mono 1.9.x
 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: having people use my instructions that are on the forums
 [10:21] Sean Dague: Jenniver, I doubt it
 [10:21] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:22] Sean Dague: it mostly deals with a segfault around using a method after it got unloaded
 [10:22] Sean Dague: which turns out of be the #1 cause of the 2.4 crashes that we've seen
 [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: is it the trampoline?
 [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: It might be worth saying on the wiki that we only support 2.0.1 now?...
 [10:22] Penny Lane: Last stable mono in Gentoo Portage is 2.0.1, which probably says something about the quality of later ones.
 [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: as a minimum? Well, I know there are disagreements about that :)
 [10:22] Sean Dague: Neb, I'm not sure
 [10:22] Sean Dague: it may be the same
 [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think 2.0.1 is definatly the minimum now
 [10:23] paulie Flomar: I have 10 bug son Mantis that have been around for thousand sof revs. They are bugs in basic functioanlity like sitting and building. Maybe someone could look at som eof those.
 [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: opensim wont run with 1.9.1 anymore
 [10:23] Sean Dague: yes, 1.9.1 doesn't do the templates
 [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: you get that tresponse
 [10:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, so it's pretty much enforced anyway. Fair enough
 [10:23] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: there's no official mono 2.5 ? like the mono 2.4
 [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: not yet
 [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: its still SVN in dev
 [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: but its very stable
 [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: compared to 2.4
 [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: hmm wait i where trying libgid
 [10:23] Charles Krinke: Are we going to be dropping Visual Studio 2005 in a few months?
 [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: omg.
 [10:24] Charles Krinke: And supporting only Visual Studio 2008 ?
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: here again one more time
 [10:24] Dahlia Trimble is Online
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: is the mono 2.5 tarball instructions
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PocrPNzHo9g
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: dang
 [10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: haven't we already dropped VS 2005?
 [10:24] Richardus Raymaker: and then you need to know mono 2.4 is much nicer with memory and the new opensim
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: didnt copy
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: hang on
 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1334
 [10:24] Starky Rubble: I thought we dropped C#2005 a month ago
 [10:24] paulie Flomar: RR: did u meant to say 2.5?
 [10:24] Jamenai Luik: ah one question: is there any chance to save the maptiles more layered? (Maybe Zoomlevels)
 [10:24] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: not at the moment
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: we would need to cron task that Jamenai
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: from asset table
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: do some converting
 [10:25] Jamenai Luik: yes but actually is only for every region
 [10:25] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
 [10:25] Starky Rubble: Hi
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: yea it would be pretty expensive
 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: on a grid like this
 [10:25] Jamenai Luik: i need some stuff so that i have in the second zoomlevel 4 regions on 1 tile
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: to convert all those jp2 on a regulare basis to several zoom levels
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: we explored google maps in the past
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: and had similar issue
 [10:26] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: the lindens use a bot
 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: to crawl the grid
 [10:27] Jamenai Luik: maybe i can work on serverside with imagick
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: its a headless bot that crawls and renders the scene
 [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: no mono 2.4 works good here to. i have the feeling i can run the region longer
 [10:27] Jamenai Luik: and generate the stuff
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats how they build their map tiles
 [10:27] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.5 (Dev) .9740 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)
Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
 [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: they dont use the simulator or asset database
 [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: Hello Dahlia
 [10:27] Charles Krinke: No problem, Richardus. We are just finding that mono-2.5 is pretty good and there are a number of folks with older monos that are struggling.
 [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: but, lets build new one
 [10:27] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:27] Connected
 [10:28] Dahlia Trimble: hi justin :)
 [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone has trouble testing mono 2.5 let me know
 [10:28] Charles Krinke: Morning, Dahlia. Welcome as always.
 [10:28] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia
 [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: i have lots of fixes and work arounds that i can probably recommend in certain situations
 [10:28] Bri Hasp: your post renders 2.4 as 135174
 [10:29] Richardus Raymaker: i used for ubuntu last time this page. http://blog.ruski.co.za/page/Install-Mono-on-Ubuntu.aspx with some little changes it must work with daily to
 [10:29] Charles Krinke: Ok, this is the time for my default plea to add notes to Mantis either confirming or denying the Mantis so the developers can help move some of them to their final destiny.
 [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: the tarbal version should not report a tag
 [10:29] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:29] Penny Lane waves at Dahlia
 [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: not a mono revision just the svn revision # only
 [10:29] Sean Dague: This is the mono 2.4 patch that helps
 [10:29] Sean Dague: http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/mono-devel-list/2009-May/032301.html
 [10:30] paulie Flomar: I regulary revisit my Mantisi and restest to see if the issues have been fixed.
 [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: Sean: I missed it - what does that help with?
 [10:30] Charles Krinke: Are there any 'showstoppers" that folks are stuck at that we are ignoring?
 [10:30] Starky Rubble: I have a philosophical question about mantises. Is a failure to match SL behavior (like llDie or bouyancy) mantis-worthy or does something like that belong in the features wishlist?
 [10:30] Sean Dague: it eliminates a set of crashes
 [10:30] paulie Flomar: q: should very old Mantisi (thousands of revs old) be closed and resubmitted or left in place?
 [10:30] Richardus Raymaker: black avatar, not good loading avatar textures.
 [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: Sean: ah ha - thanks
 [10:30] Sean Dague: that turn out to be races in memory deallocation of methods
 [10:30] Dahlia Trimble is Online
 [10:31] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:31] Sean Dague: this are mono level crashes
 [10:31] Charles Krinke: I would say that matching SL behavior of SL is an admirable goal, but not one we should spin around in circles trying to accomplish.
 [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: Starky: I think we treat that as features
 [10:31] Bri Hasp: aha I see now neb
 [10:31] Starky Rubble: I thought so
 [10:31] Starky Rubble: but I have been reading mantises and wondered
 [10:31] Romulun Rockett: Sorry guys
 [10:31] Charles Krinke: Usually the Mantis dicussion notes are a good place to hash that out.
 [10:32] Richardus Raymaker: then ,many regions have that problem. i think also with newer ,mono
 [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: ping
 [10:32] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: starky: yes - I think previously a lot of feature stuff was put in the Mantis but we try and avoid that now. Use Adam's tool instead
 [10:32] Starky Rubble: Oh I am aware of that
 [10:33] Penny Lane: Well SL can't meet its own specs, and they're full of corner cases, so Opensim trying for 100% wouldn't really make sense. Especially given the different physics.
 [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya i would say if an LSL function is not behaving as intended
 [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: Yes, I think cleanup of old ones is always good. If they're really broke, people can reopen them
 [10:33] Charles Krinke: We are very non-strict about creating Mantis, and I think the converse of this is that we should be non-strict about the developers closing a Mantis also.
 [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: ping
 [10:33] Starky Rubble: but i will now add notes to really old ones that should maybe be moved
 [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: being LSL is a standard
 [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: i would mantis it
 [10:34] Richardus Raymaker: only thing that woyld be nice to work the same is lsl
 [10:34] Penny Lane: Hehe
 [10:34] Charles Krinke: Well, since we dont have specs for OpenSim, it is much easiere.
 [10:34] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:34] tx Oh: but it would be nice to have most events and detects covered, like touch() and stuff
 [10:34] Richardus Raymaker: makes learning easyer
 [10:34] Bri Hasp: well some get blown off as "thats how it's designed" then closed.. how can I then state bad design?
 [10:34] Charles Krinke: I would say that any LSL function that doesnt work at all is important. Those we need to get into and fix right away.
 [10:34] Maria Korolov is Online
 [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: bri: yeah - don't have an answer there myuself
 [10:35] tx Oh: thats not really true. touch() event is not unimportant
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: well if its a bad LSL design then that requires a Jira
 [10:35] BlueWall Slade: SimFPS: 55 | PhyFPS: 45 | Root Agents: 17 | Child Agents 0 | Memory: 852
 [10:35] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:35] Charles Krinke: Well, Bri, I understand and concur. I also have to live with all the 'disparate genius personalities', some of which tend to write notes on Mantis that preclude discussion.
 [10:35] Starky Rubble: heh
 [10:36] Dahlia Trimble: my viewer is freaking out big time
 [10:36] Charles Krinke: When that happens, I would say, lets have a discussion on the opensim-dev mailing list so an imporant issue does not get lost.
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya, it might even be better to ask 1st on -dev email
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: before wasting time on a mantis too
 [10:36] Dahlia Trimble is Offline
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: find out if its a bug 1st
 [10:36] Bri Hasp: k
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: remember its a bug listing
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: not really a question asking forum
 [10:37] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:37] Charles Krinke: As we get more personalites using OpenSim, working our communication via IRC, Email and in-world will continue to get more challenging.
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: you shouldnt be asking questions on mantis
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: its for filing bug reports
 [10:37] Dahlia Trimble is Online
 [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: you can better place that in font on the mantis sie
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: if what your writing comes off as a question its better posted on the mailing list i think
 [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: either opensim or opensim-dev
 [10:38] Penny Lane: Almost worth banning personalities, and making everyone write as AC#<number>, where the <number> is periodically switched randomly. :P
 [10:38] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:38] Connected
 [10:38] tx Oh: sighs
 [10:38] tx Oh: to many channels
 [10:39] Charles Krinke: <harumph>
 [10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: Penny: Ever read Cryptonomicon?
 [10:39] Charles Krinke: Well, as we grow as a community, all these channels will grow also.
 [10:39] Penny Lane: JCC: it's on my shelf, unread :-(
 [10:40] Charles Krinke: Justin: Thats my favorite book. Randy is my hero.
 [10:40] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: Penny: The e-mails from a 'hive mind' community only used numbers instead of names :)
 [10:40] Richardus Raymaker: make a channel with elise software. works possible the same :)
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya it just makes it difficult and time is wasted when things that are not necessarily bugs are posted to mantis
 [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: mine too - Snow Crash is the only book that I like more
 [10:41] Charles Krinke: ok, so I think the underlying issue is making sue that important Mantis do not get swept aside. Is that a fair way to state the problem?
 [10:41] Mystical Demina: reading Snow Crash to my 11 year old son, he really likes it
 [10:41] Penny Lane: JCC: haha, great. I really must read it. (Neal Stephenson is my second favourite SciFi author, after Banks)
 [10:41] tx Oh: mine is shockwaverider
 [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Penny: yeah, you won't regret it. It's a truly excellent book, thuogh it tends to polarise (some really can't see the point of it(
 [10:41] Penny Lane nods
 [10:41] Richardus Raymaker: how's the region lock thing going ?
 [10:41] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:41] Charles Krinke: Penny, best to have a dictionary handy to look up the big words and analogies.
 [10:41] Penny Lane: I'm good at big words :P
 [10:42] Richardus Raymaker: it happens to much you need to bring a region down for some short time
 [10:42] Formica Multiuso: i'm sorry
 [10:43] Richardus Raymaker: how long will the downtime be ?
 [10:43] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:43] Formica Multiuso: can you help me?
 [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: not really sure i think adam said 1-6 hours
 [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: im going to say it will be atleast 5-6 hours
 [10:43] Neas Bade is Online
 [10:44] Formica Multiuso: hi sean
 [10:44] Richardus Raymaker: i know, copy stuff is after 20 years still slow
 [10:44] Charles Krinke: Formica, this is "Office Hour" where we discuss OpenSim software development each Tuesday here at this time, not really a support activity.
 [10:44] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:44] Formica Multiuso: charles. I know... I'm an italian student
 [10:45] Charles Krinke: We also have "Q&A Hour" on Saturday at the same time on "Zaius Plaza" which is a free-form question, answer & support time.
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: im sure if you hang a around a while after the meeting someone can help answer questions
 [10:45] Charles Krinke: Sean: Visit "Bade Plaza" some time.
 [10:45] Sean Dague: will do
 [10:45] Sean Dague: has it been built up more since last time?
 [10:46] Formica Multiuso: and I'm interested on following the develop of OS.
 [10:46] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:46] Charles Krinke: ok. What are the things relating to the next weeks software development that we have not discussed today??
 [10:46] Sean Dague: I actually have a forked version from a while ago that I use as my meeting space behind the firewall
 [10:46] Charles Krinke: ah, probably pretty close, then. Depending on how old it is, Sean.
 [10:47] Kitto Flora: Anyone else poking at Vehicle support?
 [10:47] Sean Dague: it's about November of last year I think when I was given the copy
 [10:47] Bri Hasp: sighs
 [10:47] Formica Multiuso: I cannot reach you. I'm blocked here.
 [10:47] Sean Dague: anyone been playing with freeswitch out here on osgrid?
 [10:47] tx Oh: yeah, is there a good vehicle example?
 [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: i was playing around with vehciles last night, but things are still pretty rough
 [10:47] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
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 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: theres 100 ways to make it crash a sim
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: and 1 way to not
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: very unreliable vehicles are
 [10:48] Charles Krinke: Jeff Heaton's vehicle scripts are mostly functional.
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: im lucky to get about an hour
 [10:48] Charles Krinke: Google "Heaton Research"
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: usually much less
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: im unable to turn reliably either
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: on physical vehicles
 [10:49] tx Oh: i also mantised that non-scripted physical spheres don't roll on a ramp with ode..
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: without it shooting off wildly
 [10:49] Kitto Flora: Theres a very reliable crash bug in Vehicles - Second time you sit on it. If you try a vehicle, sit, then get up.... DELETE it, rez a new one and carry on.
 [10:49] Sean Dague: how steep was the ramp?
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: this is about as good as i got it
 [10:50] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: watch the screen
 [10:50] Connected
 [10:50] tx Oh: about 30degrees
 [10:50] Dahlia Trimble: spheres should roll
 [10:50] tx Oh: they roll when you select them
 [10:50] Sean Dague: interesting
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: i started making a new car though
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its not done yet
 [10:51] Sean Dague: oh noes, run for you lives
 [10:51] Charles Krinke: Do we need a "Physical Hour" *or* a "Vehicle Hour" ??
 [10:51] Compile successful
 [10:51] Kitto Flora: Vectoring of the linear engine is incorrect in a turn... I'd work on that but the crash bug is much more of a problem
 [10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: traffic accidents in paradise?
 [10:51] Sean Dague: it's the mythical bus that will run over the core devs
 [10:51] Compile successful
 [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: hope you put a big loud HORN on it.
 [10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: oh christ, I'd love to see a red double decker run over MW (virtually :)
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: it does drive
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: but you will notice
 [10:52] Kitto Flora: Charles: if we had people poking at the Sim Source ODEVehicleSettings.cs etc. Collaberation would be useful
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: the tires have invisble spheres wrapped around them
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: its very crashy though
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: i wont even attempt to drive it here
 [10:52] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:52] Connected
 [10:52] Sean Dague: ok, I got to run off and explain panda to our interns. Good seeing everyone. Hope to be here more regularly in the future
 [10:53] BlueWall Slade: see ya Sean
 [10:53] Dahlia Trimble: tc sd :)
 [10:53] Bri Hasp: I think that basic broken fuctions should be fixed prior to vehicle functions or else more issues will be created
 [10:53] Penny Lane: If you're going to add more Hours, please not on a Tuesday, it's massively oversubscribed in SL for OHs
 [10:53] Bri Hasp: We do have moving boats. We now need refinements.
 [10:53] Charles Krinke: I need to head out and schmooze with my engineers at work. The meeting can go on informally as long as anyone wishes to chat.
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: sim is running great
 [10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: byse sean
 [10:53] Neas Bade is Offline
 [10:53] BlueWall Slade: bye Charles
 [10:53] Charles Krinke is Offline
 [10:54] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:54] Connected
 [10:54] BlueWall Slade: SimFPS: 56 | PhyFPS: 46 | Root Agents: 20 | Child Agents 1 | Memory: 828
 [10:54] Kitto Flora: Anyone know where Teravus hast gotten to?
 [10:54] Dahlia Trimble: he's taking a break
 [10:55] paulie Flomar: neb: have u found any more info on the "looking towards Wright" or "LInden pines" slowdown?
 [10:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:56] Connected
 [10:56] Bri Hasp: oh well.. llTargetOmega was semi promised to be implemented. Doesn't work yet, been 6 months
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: no paulie i havent looked much more at that
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: the only thing i noticed about those pine trees
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: is they go out of focus much sooner than most trees
 [10:57] paulie Flomar: k
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: they seem to vary alot
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: even at close range
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps its just more intensive on mass
 [10:57] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:57] Connected
 [10:57] Dahlia Trimble: thats a viewer thing
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i think its a viewer problem
 [10:57] M1sha Dallin: I have 1000 Linden Pine at M1 Lepe and M1 Thorn (adjacent regions) - I don't see any slowdown there
 [10:58] Dahlia Trimble: tree detail in graphics preferences
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt seem to effect everyone
 [10:58] M1sha Dallin: I run Ultra with 512 draw distance
 [10:58] Maria Korolov is Online
 [10:58] M1sha Dallin: I did see a slowdown here
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: newer hardware probably wont see any difference
 [10:58] Richardus Raymaker: thenmy framerate will anyway drop
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya im sure here there are many reasons why you would slow down
 [10:59] Bri Hasp: Graphics detail is excellent for me
 [10:59] Bri Hasp: and very quick on hosted regions
 [10:59] Dahlia Trimble: awww you stopped the video before it showed the part where I rammed you :(
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya its really hard to say what the problems are fully
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: such a wide variety
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya i didnt mean to change it actually
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i had it pasted down below
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: and i hit enter on the wrong line
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: when typing
 [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: Alright, I need to go now as well
 [11:00] Michelle Argus is Offline
 [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: Happy simulating, everybody
 [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: me too
 [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: tc all
 [11:00] Mystical Demina: i can give a one sentence update on Xenki. I have had a couple people volunteer to work on it. We had our first meeting of the Xenki Advisory board to get feedback from some different communities on what use cases they are interested to use it for. I hope to integrate LookingGlass's architecture into it. If all goes good may have a significat update before end othe month. I hope to start hvaing a monhtly develper meetings soon.
 [11:00] Bri Hasp: ciao Mr J
 [11:00] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: see you guys
 [11:00] tx Oh: byebye
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming
 [11:00] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [11:00] Connected
 [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye guys
 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: so wierd
 [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: on my screen a lot of people are floating away from the couch
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: out in the air
 [11:01] paulie Flomar: that is weird
 [11:01] Jamenai Luik: :)
 [11:01] Bri Hasp: beer Neb>
 [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hehe
 [11:01] BlueWall Slade: sounds like weed to me
 [11:01] Dahlia Trimble is Offline
 [11:01] BlueWall Slade: hehe
 [11:01] Kitto Flora: Neb: Just packet loss
 [11:01] Jamenai Luik: free beer
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya something strange with my video card or something
 [11:01] BlueWall Slade: Nice Mystical
 [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: also if i cam out a bit
 [11:01] Bri Hasp: yeah,, smoking cactus again
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: some avatrs i only see 1/2 of them
 [11:02] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [11:02] Connected
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: it like cuts the top of them off
 [11:02] Jamenai Luik: lol bri
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: about waste high
 [11:02] paulie Flomar: ...
 [11:02] Kitto Flora: half Avs - same here
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: but if i cam back in it shows
 [11:02] Jamenai Luik: same here
 [11:02] paulie Flomar: "braaaainss..."
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe wierd
 [11:02] tx Oh: with hippo or 1.23?
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i never saw that before
 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: its Hippo
 [11:02] Formica Multiuso: nebadon, can you help me after Office Hour?
 [11:02] tx Oh: strange
 [11:02] Kitto Flora: Hippo 0.5.1 here
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: strange
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: whats the problem Formica
 [11:03] Bri Hasp: I am on RC .. so looks normal
 [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: i hope save oar works.
 [11:03] Jamenai Luik: maybe a transparent problem?
 [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes it still freeze on some regions. what you try it dont work
 [11:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [11:03] Connected
 [11:03] Jamenai Luik: i have to zoom in so i can see the complete ava
 [11:03] Formica Multiuso: I would like to tell with you.. about my goal.
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think maybe its impostors
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and the clear windows
 [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: at a certain distance its blurring
 [11:04] Kitto Flora: Neb: Looks like thats somewhere in Avatarr Impostors. Try turninng Impostors off in Prefs
 [11:04] BlueWall Slade: you're writing a server? Formica?
 [11:04] Bri Hasp: what is the pet cache today? ?
 [11:04] Formica Multiuso: yes bluewall
 [11:04] Bri Hasp: I am happy with Zero Cache
 [11:04] Bri Hasp: haha
 [11:05] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [11:05] Connected
 [11:05] BlueWall Slade: I would like to join the conversation when diva explains the server shells to you
 [11:05] BlueWall Slade: I saw in IRC

Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-09

2009-06-12T12:31:08Z

Markuser:

[[Category:Chat Logs]]
__NOTOC__
{{Template:Quicklinks}}

[[image:Tm06102009.jpg|640px|thumb|Tuesday Meeting @ Wright Plaza on OSGrid]]
 Visitor List:
 Nebadon izumi
 Derika Juran
 Charles Krinke
 Penny Lane
 Richardus Raymaker
 Kitto Flora
 paulie Flomar
 Orion Hax
 Justin Clark-Casey
 Bri Hasp
 Brent Seidel
 WhiteStar Magic
 Static Sprocket
 Mic Bowman
 Starky Rubble
 Muck Woodget
 Isabele Auer
 Snoopy Pfeffer
 Master Dubrovna
 Fredo Chaplin
 Andronicus Dragon
 tx Oh
 PocoLoco Darwin
 Vette Chrome
 Brenda Fall
 Maria Korolov
 Total = 25
 Done resetting.
 [09:54] Charles Krinke is Online
 [09:55] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:55] Connected
 [09:56] Charles Krinke: Morning, sir.
 [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: hey
 [09:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:56] Connected
 [09:56] Charles Krinke: are you and I the last two avatars left in the MEtaverse? Did the 'bomb' go off?
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya strange no one is here
 [09:57] Charles Krinke: Looks like a couple down below according to the mini-map
 [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: cool ya im sure everyone will show up soon
 [09:58] Script saved
 [09:58] Compile successful
 [09:58] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
 [09:58] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
 [09:58] Youtube Video Player v1.1: Enter the title number OR a youtube URL at /4
 [09:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:58] Connected
 [09:59] Charles Krinke: Let me try to plant a seed while we are waiting. "I think it is a good idea to see if we can empower/appoint a couple of regular users from #osgrid to help in community development with a few more dedicated "Hours" of one sort or another"
 [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: youtube player doesnt seem to be working
 [09:59] Charles Krinke: rats
 [09:59] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
 [09:59] Youtube Video Player v1.1:
 [09:59] Youtube Video Player v1.1: Enter the title number OR a youtube URL at /4
 [09:59] Charles Krinke: Hi, Richardus, Penny, Kitto
 [09:59] Kitto Flora: Hello
 [09:59] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [09:59] Connected
 [09:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi cherles, neb, kitto, penny
 [09:59] Compile successful
 [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: sry charles
 [10:00] Penny Lane: Hi Charles, Neb, Kitto, Richardus
 [10:00] paulie Flomar is Online
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: aha
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: differnt script worked
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: this one uses differnt proxy
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: nice
 [10:00] Kitto Flora: Av updates are .. a little messed up in this version?
 [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: your script dont waork anymore ?
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: no it was the proxy
 [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes one works
 [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: and the other doesnt
 [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: its the same script actually
 [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: aha
 [10:01] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, all.
 [10:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:01] Connected
 [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi paulie. welcome to the hot the sit curses
 [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: hey paulie
 [10:01] paulie Flomar: :)
 [10:01] paulie Flomar: ty ty
 [10:01] Nebadon Izumi whispers: let me announce meeting in IRC
 [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: brb
 [10:01] Charles Krinke: I guess the first question of the morning is do we advance the "recommended" from last weeks r9740 to r9801 or a different version for this week or not.
 [10:02] paulie Flomar: Im running 9815. Seems ok.
 [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
 [10:02] Richardus Raymaker: run that version since yesterday
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok i told everyone
 [10:02] Charles Krinke: cool, Paulie, thanks
 [10:02] Orion Hax: hi
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: give everyone a couple of minutes to show up
 [10:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi orion
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: since it seems so light today
 [10:02] Bri Hasp is Online
 [10:02] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:02] Charles Krinke: no problem. Open questions and answers until things get a bit more formal.
 [10:02] Connected
 [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justincc
 [10:03] Orion Hax: i got the boot about 10 minutes ago from here
 [10:03] Mic Bowman is Online
 [10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hello nebadon, hello folks
 [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: sorry orion
 [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: i usually restart the region before the meetings
 [10:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
 [10:03] Orion Hax: ah hehehe
 [10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: is it just me or is landing much more difficult nowadays?
 [10:03] Charles Krinke: I havent noticed a difference, myself
 [10:04] Charles Krinke: Mic. Hello to you, sir.
 [10:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:04] Connected
 [10:04] Bri Hasp: this place Re'zs faster
 [10:04] Mic Bowman: hi charles
 [10:04] Justin Clark-Casey: Hey Mic
 [10:04] Kitto Flora: Justin: Do you mean ' Av tends to flounder above ground rather than standing'?
 [10:05] Mic Bowman: hi justin...
 [10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: kitto: no, but that's another well known issue, maybe even with the same cause
 [10:05] Charles Krinke: Whoa, Nebado, the "Felt" tower just rezzed for e out he winow and I have been here for 10 minutes.
 [10:05] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:05] Connected
 [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: heh
 [10:06] Charles Krinke: Ok, shall we start?
 [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: were you camming by chance?
 [10:06] Penny Lane: Is it known why we have to manually rebake several times here before all our bits shows up? Just waiting doesn't seem to do it.
 [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: could be your draw distance maybe
 [10:06] Bri Hasp: is that America's Most Wanted on that prim?
 [10:07] Charles Krinke: Cam is pulled back so I can see the group and the Felt tower direction is in my view, but camera position has not changed for 10 minutes
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya its probably just everyone logging in
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: things bog down for a bit
 [10:07] Charles Krinke: I assume it just loaded to my client
 [10:07] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:07] Connected
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: the youtube script also isnt responding 100% either
 [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: probably lagging
 [10:07] WhiteStar Magic: I just had to alphabet walk my inventory
 [10:08] Charles Krinke: I guess the first question of the morning is do we advance the "recommended" from last weeks r9740 to r9801 or a different version for this week or not.
 [10:08] Compile successful
 [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: ?? the webpage shows already 9801
 [10:08] Bri Hasp: 9818 runs well for me
 [10:09] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:09] Connected
 [10:09] paulie Flomar: 9815 works for me. id say bumpt it.
 [10:09] Charles Krinke: so far we have votes for 9801, 9815 & 9818. Any others?
 [10:09] Charles Krinke: I am happy going to 9818 if no one objects.
 [10:09] paulie Flomar: 9815 seems to have Mcortez cache in trunk.
 [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: ive not done much past 9801 yet myself
 [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i only have 1 simulator i think beyond that
 [10:09] paulie Flomar: maybe advanrageous to go with that one?>
 [10:09] Charles Krinke: I suspect we will have some bumps in the road later today with some changes about to be checked in by Diva.
 [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: i stay at 9815 for now. try to slowdown
 [10:10] Charles Krinke: If we are prepared for bumps, it might not be as big a problem.
 [10:10] Penny Lane: What's Diva working on atm?
 [10:10] Mic Bowman: i admit that i've chickened out on some of the more recent updates... how stable is 9801 compared to 0.6..4 releases?
 [10:10] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:10] Compile successful
 [10:10] Connected
 [10:10] paulie Flomar: stable? whats that? :)
 [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: lol
 [10:10] Mic Bowman: it's all relative man
 [10:10] Mic Bowman: :-)
 [10:11] WhiteStar Magic: I'm not having anywhere near the amount of issues with 9801 as with previous versions
 [10:11] Bri Hasp: on OSG we have few choices
 [10:11] Charles Krinke: Well, we tend to push the bleeding edge here.
 [10:11] paulie Flomar: 9815 has run ok for me.
 [10:11] WhiteStar Magic: I think the big difference too has been teh Flotsam Cache improving a lot
 [10:11] Bri Hasp: yep
 [10:11] Richardus Raymaker: seems to run ok for the hours i use it
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya flotsam cache has been really good improvment
 [10:11] Mic Bowman: i measure stability in hours per week spent restarting... <5 == stable, >20 == revert
 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya
 [10:12] paulie Flomar: Mic: nice
 [10:12] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:12] Charles Krinke: A tagged release is generally the most stable. A "recommended" is merely a one week long version that has *some* testing on at least one region overnight and exists for those that want to be near head, but have some modicum of functionality
 [10:12] Connected
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: for us restarts definatly are down
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: the windows plazas can go days
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: without needing restarts
 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: linux is a bit more fragile still
 [10:12] Mic Bowman: my scisim regions have been up on 9345 for > 10 days
 [10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: with visitors?
 [10:12] Mic Bowman: yes
 [10:13] Charles Krinke: How many visitors/day would you say, Mic?
 [10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: what is memory usage like?
 [10:13] Mic Bowman: peak is usually 10-ish per day
 [10:13] Mic Bowman: 10 simulataneous
 [10:13] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:13] Connected
 [10:13] Mic Bowman: memory usage goes up as expected
 [10:14] Mic Bowman: and CPU utilization steadily climbs over a week
 [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: many scripts running?
 [10:14] Mic Bowman: >2000
 [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: wow, quite a few then
 [10:14] Mic Bowman: spread over 4 sims
 [10:14] Bri Hasp: this weeks mono and nant helped leaks a lot
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: my heaviest region has about 1000 scripts
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: and 12000 prims
 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: it crashes maybe once a week
 [10:14] Charles Krinke: We are having about 2000 logins/day on OSGrid this month and most days around 50-60 simultaneous on all regions. I would say this region probably gets 250-500 visitors/day.
 [10:15] Mic Bowman: far more load than what we see
 [10:15] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:15] Connected
 [10:15] WhiteStar Magic: this region is Win-7 ?
 [10:15] Charles Krinke: Course, you probably have better servers, too, Mic
 [10:16] Mic Bowman: that would e a rasonale asumptins
 [10:16] Mic Bowman: :-)
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: hmm i cant move
 [10:16] Mic Bowman: reasonable assumption
 [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: anyone else?
 [10:16] Charles Krinke: Ok, getting back to it, the question is 9801, 9815, 9818 or other?
 [10:16] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
 [10:16] Connected

<sim crashed several minutes of sim recovery>

 [10:34] Mic Bowman is Online
 [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: I use 9818 without problems till now
 [10:34] paulie Flomar: Im listenin to Regina Spektor, so I cant be sad. :) :)
 [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: 9815 seems to run fine to
 [10:35] Bri Hasp: yep
 [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: since 9817 my patch for group permissions is included :)
 [10:35] Bri Hasp: waz this?
 [10:35] Brent Seidel: I just finished compiling 9815...
 [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: group permissions for land and objects
 [10:35] paulie Flomar sings: just a breakin my HEART! just a breakin my HEART@
 [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: not tried the land tool
 [10:35] Penny Lane: What's a crash in this context? An Opensim trapped error, or a system CLR fault?
 [10:35] Bri Hasp: 9815 here
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: hey guys
 [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, do you have the log ?
 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: sorry
 [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: if you like to share land and builds with group members
 [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: wb
 [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Neb
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: the log is a total disaster
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: there are no errors though
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: the region didnt crash
 [10:36] paulie Flomar: aaaand we're back!
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: it just went to 0fps
 [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh oh
 [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: i have one till the question "anyone else"
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: there were no errors
 [10:36] Kitto Flora: Locked up
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: it was simple frozen
 [10:36] paulie Flomar: well, that sprogress. :)
 [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: I sometimes see that on 2 of my sims
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: i had to kill the process to recover
 [10:36] Charles Krinke is Offline
 [10:36] Penny Lane: CLR locked up, or Opensim went into a hard loop?
 [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: not sure
 [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: Samsara and Paradise are my trouble makers from time to time
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: console was responding
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: but i couldnt log in
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: and FPS read 0
 [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
 [10:37] Kitto Flora: Thats what the client stats was showing for me - the connection was good, but no legit traffic
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: no errors
 [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: all looks ok
 [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: especially samsara i see go down
 [10:37] Richardus Raymaker gave you WP log part_2009-06-09.
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: ooh
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: you mean chat log
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [10:37] Kitto Flora: Lsb..? Plaza did go off though I think
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i thought you meant console log
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i did have this
 [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: thanks richard
 [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Rich
 [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: betetr one to much..
 [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: about all 2 days I see that
 [10:38] Richardus Raymaker: after 2 days mine need resstart to. but it still runs fine
 [10:38] Charles Krinke is Online
 [10:38] Richardus Raymaker: 2 days = swapping
 [10:38] Kitto Flora: Humm - the weird warning has gone away
 [10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: Dorothea has send a group notice
 [10:38] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
 [10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: it works here
 [10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Charles
 [10:39] Fredo Chaplin is Online
 [10:39] paulie Flomar: wb, ck. :) :)
 [10:40] Fredo Chaplin: Hi Justin
 [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: sorry im quiet im watching the console
 [10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
 [10:40] Charles Krinke: Well, this is more of a stress test then a business meeting, today, but we need to be reminded we are mortal once in a while.
 [10:41] paulie Flomar: mortal? say it aint so!
 [10:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi tx
 [10:41] Penny Lane: Talking about stress tests, is there something like scripted testing available?
 [10:41] Richardus Raymaker: hi tx
 [10:41] Charles Krinke: Did we agree on 9815 for "recommended"? Are then any requests/announcements from developers?
 [10:41] tx Oh: huhu
 [10:41] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, Hax and Oh.
 [10:41] Muck Woodget: Hi tx
 [10:41] Brent Seidel: I feel fine. It gave me an excuse to get up and fill my water bottle.
 [10:41] Isabele Auer: Hello Tx
 [10:41] paulie Flomar: :) 9815 +1
 [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: wow, I'm impressed so many people came back
 [10:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: 9817 includes group permissions
 [10:41] UUID Speaker: Centaurus Avalon: 0d75f283-337b-a68b-7ebd-a88f77bd46a0
 [10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: maybe ppl like to test that
 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think we have more people now
 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: than before the crash
 [10:42] UUID Speaker: Centaurus Avalon: 0d75f283-337b-a68b-7ebd-a88f77bd46a0
 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Justin
 [10:42] Charles Krinke: We live on every pearl of wisdom that drops of your fingertips like glowing plutonium, Justin
 [10:42] paulie Flomar: +1
 [10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hello countrymen
 [10:42] paulie Flomar cheers!!
 [10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ckrinke: ha ha - you have a nice line in sarcasm, CHarles :)
 [10:42] paulie Flomar: huzzah!
 [10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
 [10:43] Richardus Raymaker: 18 avatras here ?
 [10:43] Penny Lane: Sounds like an Indian god
 [10:43] Richardus Raymaker: lol
 [10:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: head seems to be quite good at the moment
 [10:43] paulie Flomar: we're all just so happeh to BE here!
 [10:43] Charles Krinke: Justin. Without you here, this meeting would loose a lot of its luster, and that is not sarcasm, Justin
 [10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: well, that's very kind of you. Though I think OpenSim is growing beyond the answers I can give - a lot of the topics I don't have a huge amount of insight into
 [10:44] Brent Seidel: I'm a noon so I come here to learn stuff.
 [10:44] Brent Seidel: make that noob
 [10:44] Charles Krinke: Ok, open questions (and I hope answers)
 [10:44] Compile successful
 [10:44] Charles Krinke: focus on activities we can accomplish in the next week, please.
 [10:44] WhiteStar Magic: is teh move to 9815 with Flotsam a Go ?
 [10:45] paulie Flomar: +1 from me
 [10:45] Charles Krinke: Any objections, Nebadon to 9815 with flotsam?
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: no
 [10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: can someone looks at the code required for object inventory item sharing?
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: it does however need more testing
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: but so far its looking great
 [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: no objections here
 [10:45] Charles Krinke: 9815 with flotsam for "recommended". Lets test it, break it, mantis it, drive mcortez nuts.
 [10:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
 [10:46] Richardus Raymaker: i like flotsam.
 [10:46] Bri Hasp: is solid a whole 3/4 day on Net server
 [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: what do you mean?
 [10:46] Charles Krinke: and, Melanie, too. Dont forget to drive her nuts with cache questions, too.
 [10:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: I mean that you cannot set object inventory items as shared at the moment
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: something seems very wrong with scripts
 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: dunno if its just lag or what
 [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: but this youtube script is not working at all
 [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: with group permissions that's a restriction
 [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: taks minutes to respond
 [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: because they are never shared by the group
 [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: oh right. Sounds like a Melanie topic as she has done most of the permissions work
 [10:47] Penny Lane switches to blonde in case she thinks of a dumb question
 [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I know
 [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: or maybe mcortez if it's group stuff
 [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: she has said that this part is till missing
 [10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: still*
 [10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: no it is in the core
 [10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: Melanie is te right person or someone else I dont know
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: CPU is not 100%
 [10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: so it cant be that effecting scripts
 [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: has to be some kind of locking happening or sometihng
 [10:49] Charles Krinke: Well, we 1) Whine and complain 2) Mantis 3) Confirm Mantis 4) Whine and complain some more.
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone else noticed increased CPU usage?
 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: on their own regions that is
 [10:49] tx Oh: cpu usage is always an issue :-)
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya im talking about major increase
 [10:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, you mean memory is always some isseu
 [10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: cpu utilization is much lower with the new versions
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya not on this server
 [10:50] Richardus Raymaker: cpu seems still pretty stable at my server.
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: cpu is way up
 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: not really sure why
 [10:50] tx Oh: yes, it's a bit higher in avg
 [10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: whine. complain, and whine in Mantis? :)
 [10:50] Richardus Raymaker: j2k ?
 [10:50] Primitive: Setting new media URL. The old URL was: http://nebadon2025.com/vid/mus/Beck-Ghettochip.malfunction.mov
 [10:50] Primitive: New media URL set: http://nebadon2025.com/vid/mus/Chemical.Brothers-Galvenize.mov
 [10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: and also memory is less on an issue with the flotsam cache
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: thats good
 [10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: really tx? hm
 [10:51] Charles Krinke: No, the whining and complaining should be on IRC. That way, we keep everyone off balance.
 [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its possible its something isolated to this box
 [10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: I experience the opposite
 [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen it some revisions back that after startup cpu jumps high. i found a few bad scripts
 [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: since i removed the scripts it runs fine
 [10:51] Charles Krinke: Does shutting off scripts from the estate manager window not work anymore?
 [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: look in estate toolsif you can see scripts with high numbers in first row
 [10:52] Richardus Raymaker: did that worked anyway ?
 [10:52] Charles Krinke: It used to work fine.
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure Charles
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: i think it does
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have a lot of scripts
 [10:52] Charles Krinke: That is how we have been diagnosing CPU usage issues with scripts befor.
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: it can be pretty disasterous
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: especially with a crowd like this
 [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: not a good idea to do something like that
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: but it should work still i think
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: you should see the console unloading the scripts
 [10:53] Charles Krinke: Well, after the crowd leaves, perhaps turn off scripts and see if the CPU usage goes down and stability goes up?
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok well Lbsa has like no scripts
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: and .like 1/50th the prims and textures
 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: it runs worse than this region does
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa is acting really bad
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: maybe just increased traffic
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i logged in there yesterday
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: there was 12 people
 [10:54] WhiteStar Magic: LBSA runs MRM ?
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: standing around chactting
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: it was using 120% cpu
 [10:54] WhiteStar Magic: does this >?
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: yes
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa does
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: this doesnt
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: it runs the Telehub mrm
 [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats it
 [10:55] WhiteStar Magic: I notoiced differences when MRM is on or not on my regions
 [10:55] Penny Lane: Vicinity chat in LBSA was dead when we got diverted there on the crash earlier.
 [10:55] tx Oh: i haven't played with mrm yet
 [10:55] Charles Krinke: Perhaps disable RM for a few days and see if it makes a difference?
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya it does all kinds of wierd things there
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i will charles
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: its about the last thing left to try
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: after that i dunno
 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: only thing left is avatar counts
 [10:55] Charles Krinke: Ok, what else can we accoplish, today?
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: increasedd traffic
 [10:56] Master Dubrovna: Its usually busy expecially with new people
 [10:56] Maria Korolov: has anyone else here lost regions due to the hypver VM hack?
 [10:56] Master Dubrovna: Yes
 [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i lost a server but not regions
 [10:56] paulie Flomar: thankfully, no
 [10:56] Bri Hasp: Yes
 [10:57] Charles Krinke: Any estimate of the number of regions lost due to the HyperVN hack?
 [10:57] tx Oh: one thing which bugs me is the leaking memory. for users with low mem vps servers it must be a horror
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we had the osgrid elgg dev website hosted on Fsckvps
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we lost it all
 [10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hyper vm hack??
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: but luckily we had it backed up
 [10:57] Maria Korolov: charles: simon lost 30, but had offline backups
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya Justin
 [10:57] Bri Hasp: when will you re activate purge?
 [10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
 [10:57] WhiteStar Magic: I think we need to get more in people faces about making regular & timely backupos and not just OAR files
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty terrible series of events occured over the weekend
 [10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: what kind of hack?
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: really really bad
 [10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: can it cause data loss?
 [10:57] Maria Korolov: snoopy: 100% data loss
 [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: 1000s of servers were destroyed
 [10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
 [10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: wha????
 [10:58] Maria Korolov: 100,000 + websites wiped out
 [10:58] Charles Krinke: Justin: Google "HyperVM hack"
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: and sadle someone killed themselves over the event possibly
 [10:58] Penny Lane: You mean an attack?
 [10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: Sadly*
 [10:58] WhiteStar Magic: fck was wiped out
 [10:58] Master Dubrovna: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/08/webhost_attack/
 [10:58] Penny Lane: Oh sh*t
 [10:58] Charles Krinke: And the pres of the company tht makes the software committed suicide last night.
 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its a total cluser f@$# to be frank
 [10:58] Maria Korolov: yeayh, the head o hte software company wiht the hack killed himself in india
 [10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks Master
 [10:58] WhiteStar Magic: The creator of teh software hung himself
 [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: master: thanks
 [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: oh wow, nasty
 [10:58] Master Dubrovna: sue
 [10:58] Master Dubrovna: sure
 [10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow
 [10:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: really?
 [10:59] Maria Korolov: i'm trying to get a estimate of the opensim regions lost...
 [10:59] Bri Hasp: Purge stays off how long?
 [10:59] Master Dubrovna: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/09/lxlabs_funder_death/
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: for now indefinatly
 [10:59] Charles Krinke: I would estimate 50-100 on OSGrid
 [10:59] Bri Hasp: TY
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i wont be rushing to turn it back on
 [10:59] Charles Krinke: lost
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya i estimated that its atleast 100
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: but i have nothing solid
 [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: other than a good guess at this point
 [11:00] Charles Krinke: just guesses, Maria, based onwhat folks ar reporing
 [11:00] Master Dubrovna: What servers are back online are operating with limited memory
 [11:00] paulie Flomar: Dayum! Dude kille dhimself over the VM hack? :(
 [11:00] Penny Lane: Wow,I wish politicians would hang themselves when they screw up too.
 [11:00] Charles Krinke: We tend to have man folks operatng low-budget VPS
 [11:00] Master Dubrovna: lol
 [11:01] paela argus is Offline
 [11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: luckily I dont use VPS
 [11:01] WhiteStar Magic: again... I am gonna restate... we really need to get people to pay attention to doing Full Backups and Saves
 [11:01] Charles Krinke: Well, Paulie, I suspect it ws the ulminaion of a number of things
 [11:01] Starky Rubble: wimmen folks too
 [11:01] Master Dubrovna: Yes WhiteStar....backups saved me
 [11:01] Penny Lane: What's a good VPS, other than VAserv?
 [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: can you put in the timer script also noprmal linux commands ?
 [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: so you can wput a file
 [11:02] WhiteStar Magic: it seems that it is possible,....
 [11:02] tx Oh: yes, and with low-cost vps you have a limitet mem usage. with a leaking mem leaking opensim you really need to restart often
 [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: thats a pint i still need to make
 [11:02] WhiteStar Magic: I don;t have a Linux system runnig at this time to buold linux soluiution like I did for Windows
 [11:02] WhiteStar Magic: but it shoudl not be hard to port it over
 [11:02] Brent Seidel: just make sure that your backup is physially separated from your host.
 [11:03] Charles Krinke: I need to go pretend I am working. Sorry "Office Hour"was a bit traumatic today.
 [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: but ok, put and mysql backup you can do with cron to
 [11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol
 [11:03] Penny Lane: Cyu CK
 [11:03] paulie Flomar: bye, ck. Keep em flyin.
 [11:03] WhiteStar Magic: sorry about the typing folks... but my hands are really sore today
 [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: thats my problem for now.
 [11:03] Charles Krinke is Offline
 [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes i move it to other place.working on it
 [11:04] WhiteStar Magic: I put the command to backup & restore MySql db in the forums ... works in both Win & Linux
 [11:04] Brenda Fall: y iz nobody talkin
 [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: i have the commands.
 [11:04] Maria Korolov whispers: breand: we're so sad...
 [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: huh, I guess we all lost interest in voice?
 [11:04] Brenda Fall: y....
 [11:04] Kitto Flora: I'm seeing weird errors again
 [11:04] Kitto Flora: Lockup imminent?
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: voice needs alot of work
 [11:04] tx Oh: voice works :-)
 [11:04] Maria Korolov: jcc: i still have interest in voice...
 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its sort of impersonal at the moment
 [11:04] Penny Lane: Because there's no open source voice, perhaps.
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: to not know who is talking
 [11:05] Maria Korolov: jcc: btw, great interovew on Floss!
 [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I think voice here in this meeting :)
 [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: maria; thanks :)
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: personally i dont much like voice in its current form
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: being its totally anonymous
 [11:05] tx Oh: my freeswitch server runs with no need to restart since ages, in oposit to opensim
 [11:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: I know ppl that work on speaker indication for voice
 [11:05] Starky Rubble: its important to chat meeting matters tho for the log
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Starky
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i could record the meetings
 [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I agree, knowing who is speaking would be nice
 [11:05] tx Oh: i need to restart the mono process nearly every day
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: and post mp3
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but still
 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: you dont know who is actually speaking
 [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: we should have speaker indication in some weeks
 [11:06] Brent Seidel: It's easier to search through text.
 [11:06] Starky Rubble: and its a lot harder to speed-read an mp3 lol
 [11:06] PocoLoco Darwin: mp3? OGG!!
 [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: great snoopy, i look forward to testing that
 [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: snoppy: so who is working on that?
 [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)
 [11:06] tx Oh: ogg ++
 [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is a company I know
 [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: oops, snoopy, sorry :)
 [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: they need it for business meetings in opensim worlds
 [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: oh, so are they release open source or are they selling it?
 [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes the owner of that company intends to release it as open source
 [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: nice
 [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: at least he told me that
 [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: he has hired a developer for that work
 [11:07] Starky Rubble: cool
 [11:07] Brenda Fall: whats the MOVIES?
 [11:07] tx Oh: yeah, this prevents from reinvented weels
 [11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
 [11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: he needs it urgently for a project with a big bank
 [11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: so there is some pressure to get it working
 [11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: and DrScofield said it can be done quite quickly
 [11:08] Maria Korolov: snoopy: big bank project in OpenSim?
 [11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: (if you know where to do the changes lol)
 [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: wow
 [11:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
 [11:09] tx Oh: i also think it's a fast to solve thing
 [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, everything (almost) is simple if you know what changes to do
 [11:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: a bank wants to use it for business meetings
 [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: early adopters? They're too cheap to pay for Nebraska? :)
 [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: heh
 [11:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
 [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: or not interested in paying to be beta testers
 [11:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: well that friend is a good sales person and he knows ppl in that bank :)
 [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, but are interested to be free alpha testsers :)
 [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, that is always a big influence
 [11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: did anybody have a look at the Project Natal video?
 [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: no
 [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: have a link?
 [11:11] Fredo Chaplin is Offline
 [11:11] paulie Flomar: Snoppy: vapor. :)
 [11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe
 [11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
 [11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: "available already today" is not really correct ;)
 [11:11] Penny Lane: The design concept video was vapourware, but the other one wasn't
 [11:12] Maria Korolov: i saw it.. the graphics were really impressive...
 [11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes
 [11:12] Starky Rubble: FUD-ware
 [11:12] Maria Korolov: don't know how much of the interactivity was faked, htough :-)
 [11:12] paulie Flomar: I'll believe it when I can buy it.
 [11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: well that's where we all are eading!
 [11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: heading*
 [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, the Microsoft thing
 [11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes lol
 [11:12] paulie Flomar: Microsoft is known for removing features, after all. I'm just sayin. :)
 [11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: but we also need such technology as opens source
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: getting graphics is generally very hard
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and expensive
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its not suprising that most Virtual Worlds look like 1990; VRML
 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: for such new features viewer and server development need to be coordinated - in the future
 [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: bandwidth not othe rprobem ?
 [11:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Neb lol
 [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think one big issue is the necessity to stream down all the ugc
 [11:13] paulie Flomar: I liked Sony's motion control demo better. I think it has greater chance of actually shipping.
 [11:13] Brent Seidel: Well, I'm not sure that I want my avatar doing *everything* that I'm doing.
 [11:14] paela argus is Offline
 [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: you lose a lot of your ability to do neat optimiaizations on the graphics side, is my understanding, when you don't know what you'll actually need to display
 [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: literally a company Like EA and big ships
 [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: sorriy shops
 [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: spend millions on graphics engines
 [11:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: Brent there should be a feature called "behave better than me in rl" ;)
 [11:14] paulie Flomar: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/6/5/
 [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and years of development
 [11:14] Brent Seidel: lok
 [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, graphics is hard :)
 [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: even linden labs
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: has spent vast sums of money
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: to get it this far
 [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I don't think we always give them enough credit
 [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a big investment
 [11:15] paela argus is Online
 [11:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: well shadows will come next year
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya i hope they take as long as it needs to do it right
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: current shadow testing for me i have mixed feelings
 [11:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: the computers used by the customers are a big limitation
 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the quality is pretty low right now
 [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you trade a lot of FPS for low quality shadows
 [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem worth it to me
 [11:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: well on my computer these testing viewers crash horrible lol
 [11:16] paulie Flomar: Interestingly, Linden Lab's implermentation of SSAO (screen space ambient occlusion) seems to have been done by th eopen source comunity. :)
 [11:16] paulie Flomar: for free
 [11:16] Bri Hasp: would be sweet if we used CUDA
 [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: i run still on high. ultra takes to muhc. especially if you run 2 viewers. i want enough frames with good quality
 [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya cuda is too isolating i think
 [11:16] WhiteStar Magic: That reminded me of something.... Was there ever any resoltuion in regards to teh "Viewer Based" trees causing lag and issues ?
 [11:17] Penny Lane: The MS E3 video that is (allegedly) real is this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH_gDreIdcM but it's boring as hell until 2:14 mins in.
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and i dont think cuda will last real long
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there will be new generation models
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: needs to be something open
 [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: cuda is freakin expensive
 [11:17] Bri Hasp: but is a fast engine
 [11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: it would be cool to have a viewer that supports stereo googles
 [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: hmm google on googles.
 [11:17] Brenda Fall: im jus walkin around
 [11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: Nvidia has the hardware that allows that
 [11:17] tx Oh: there is a patch for stereo
 [11:17] paulie Flomar: dig it: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6975
 [11:18] Bri Hasp: thats my dream Snoopy
 [11:18] Bri Hasp: have it for games
 [11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Bri :)
 [11:18] Penny Lane: CUDA is proprietary to nVidia, but OpenCL is coming soon, and is "open" in the sense of OpenGL.
 [11:18] Bri Hasp: is so MS tho
 [11:18] Bri Hasp: Direct X etc
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: nice
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: OpenCL sounds nice
 [11:19] Brenda Fall: nope
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i just hope that other makers hardware can be made to work
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i dont like thinking any one company has an advantage
 [11:19] Muck Woodget: Wb Isa
 [11:19] Isabele Auer: thx
 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: especially after all the nonsense ATI and Nvidia have done i the past
 [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: to fix prices
 [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and over inflate the market
 [11:20] Maria Korolov: meanwhile --- in anyone interesed in aking over th hostig for e Busness Center? We'regoing o haveto rebuild evrything from cratch.. :-
 [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: maria: you got hit by the hyper vm hack?
 [11:20] paulie Flomar: Mario: u lost it all?
 [11:21] Kitto Flora: invalid packets from server
 [11:21] Starky Rubble: Is the upcoming inventory engine change going to be as impactful as the asset server change was?
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure Starky
 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: I have to discuss it with Diva Melanie and Adam
 [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and formulate a plan
 [11:22] Maria Korolov: jcc: yup. lot hte business cente AND trombly ltd. no offline backup
 [11:22] Brent Seidel: that's a bummer.
 [11:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I need to go
 [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: omg :(
 [11:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: see you all later :)
 [11:23] Master Dubrovna: Why the change for inventory?
 [11:23] paulie Flomar: dayum
 [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: bye snoopy
 [11:23] Bri Hasp: MariaI can help you if youget orphaned
 [11:23] Brent Seidel: bye snoopy
 [11:23] Starky Rubble: me too
 [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: thats bad maria
 [11:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye all
 [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: everything is being refactorod Master Dubrovna
 [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: maria: bad luck, my condolences :(
 [11:23] paulie Flomar: cya snoops
 [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: its been in the cards for some time
 [11:23] Master Dubrovna: OK
 [11:23] Isabele Auer: snoopy bye bye
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully we will get through the changes seamlessly
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: but even if we have troubles we'll make it through
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we always do
 [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: until we don't :)
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: giberish
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: dont understand that word
 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, you optimist :D
 [11:25] Brent Seidel: just revert to a previous version and try again
 [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: still put a box with hardhads near the entrance nebadon
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya, i think if we all can help each other get down some really good practices
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: nothing can stop us
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: good backup routines
 [11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.5 (Dev) .9815 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)
Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: vigilant server management
 [11:25] Bri Hasp: applehood and mother pie?
 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol
 [11:26] paulie Flomar: lol@bri
 [11:26] WhiteStar Magic: neb... did you ever discover if teh viewer trees were indeed a culprit for teh lag generation that was here ?
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i think yes
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its partial cause for lag
 [11:27] Penny Lane: Seeing as we're talking about individuals rather than well funded orgs, maybe some more automation is needed, to make up for lack of good practices and vigilant server management ;-)
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: on certain hardware
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: not everyone though
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: the trees that shake a lot and loose focus often
 [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: dont like them anyway
 [11:27] paulie Flomar: I seem to see the trees issue in Cameo beach, lookin toward Wright.
 [11:27] Server: Your 2 objects were returned from <98.87764, 143.4182, 21.33336> in region Sandbox Plaza due to parcel auto return
 [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: seem to cause lag on certain levels of hardware
 [11:27] WhiteStar Magic: would this be related to teh Phantom/ flexi issues ?
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: flexis are harsh too
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it really depends on what hardware you are using to render
 [11:28] Brenda Fall: oh
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: drivers can also be an issue
 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: even on similar hardware
 [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: if your drivers are not in line
 [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: you could see major variations in performance
 [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: even on identical boxes
 [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: so many ways you can loose performance
 [11:30] WhiteStar Magic: I wonder if M1sha has been advised of this... could post something with the trees module to advise potential users of that sub-system
 [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: well i think its all part of a bigger issue
 [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: and that is using good texture managemnet
 [11:30] Brent Seidel: I did post something on the wiki about my experience with the trees module.
 [11:30] Maria Korolov is Online
 [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: using crazy prim cuts and flexis can cause issues for people
 [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: with older hardware
 [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it relaly depends on what kind of crowd your going after
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: there are methods of building you can use to increase performance
 [11:31] WhiteStar Magic: and it appears there are now new issues with SecondInventory imports getting weird cuts and shapes
 [11:31] WhiteStar Magic: I've advised them to have a look see at that
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think at some point
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: we need a tool
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that can evaluate a region
 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and say this many mb are being used in textures
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: this many vertices are being use in prims
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: right now its very difficult to know
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if you have crossed lines
 [11:32] WhiteStar Magic: agreed... maybe a good time to assemble a "Good Building Practices" guide for peopel in OpenSim
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: also isolate gigantor textures
 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: and nasty prims
 [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: by UUID and coordinates
 [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: some nice reporting
 [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: that can help us all make better regions
 [11:33] Penny Lane: Just noticed there's no Avatar Rendering Cost showing here.
 [11:34] paulie Flomar: oh man. ARC. I never trusted that metric.
 [11:34] paulie Flomar: It can be games to give false readings by using Mega prims and prtobably by other methods, too.
 [11:34] paulie Flomar: *gamed
 [11:34] Bri Hasp: lunch calling my name,,, ciao
 [11:34] Penny Lane: Oh wait, there *is* ARC showing, but it's located in wierd places in the room, not above the avs!
 [11:34] WhiteStar Magic: bye Bri
 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Bri
 [11:34] Penny Lane: How odd
 [11:34] Bri Hasp is Offline
 [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: bye
 [11:35] Penny Lane: Cyu Bri
 [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: right, I'm off too, nice talking and listening to you folks
 [11:35] Isabele Auer: Bye justin
 [11:35] Brent Seidel: bye jcc
 [11:35] WhiteStar Magic: see ya jcc
 [11:35] Andronicus Dragon: I feel Cheezits coming on
 [11:35] paulie Flomar: Imo, ARC was created by teh Lidnens to take the focus off their weak rendering platform and make users blame each other for the platform's weakness. Thats just an opinion, btw.
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crazy the sim held up way better for round 2
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: wierd it freaked out originally
 [11:35] WhiteStar Magic: fresh restart
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps just too many people logging in
 [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i restarted it 10 minutes before the meeting started
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: it was also fresh
 [11:36] WhiteStar Magic: very odd indeed
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: not really sure what happened
 [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline
 [11:36] Penny Lane: paulie: it's just a rule of thumb. But what interests me more is that something in Wright geometry is causing the ARC to render all over the area, not above av's head.
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but it was a great meeting
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: glad so many people attended
 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: it was a nice test
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: say list
 Visitor List:
 Derika Juran
 Charles Krinke
 Penny Lane
 Richardus Raymaker
 Kitto Flora
 paulie Flomar
 Orion Hax
 Justin Clark-Casey
 Bri Hasp
 Brent Seidel
 WhiteStar Magic
 Static Sprocket
 Mic Bowman
 Starky Rubble
 Muck Woodget
 Isabele Auer
 Snoopy Pfeffer
 Master Dubrovna
 Fredo Chaplin
 Andronicus Dragon
 tx Oh
 PocoLoco Darwin
 Vette Chrome
 Brenda Fall
 Maria Korolov
 Total = 25
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: 25 visitors today
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: :)
 [11:37] Kitto Flora gots lunch
 [11:37] Kitto Flora: Byebye
 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: see ya
 [11:37] WhiteStar Magic: bye Kitto
 [11:37] Maria Korolov: bye kitto
 [11:37] tx Oh: well yes..
 [11:37] tx Oh: hi

Talk:Server Commands

2009-06-09T16:28:22Z

Markuser:

The help in the server console lists a couple of 'export' commands as well, which aren't mentioned on this page:
* export
* export-map
It would be nice to get some detail on these commands. In particular (what I'm looking for at the moment) is to know how to update each region in the world map. The minimap shows the current terrain, but the world map is still showing the default terrain. [[User:Karora|Karora]] 22:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

----

Also missing to explain "link-mapping"
--[[User:Mikebert|Mikebert]] 06:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
----
I am deleting the final section [Other] as it no longer applies.
I am eternally grateful to ....darn! can't seem to find the log entry now
am thinking melanie... but I can't say for sure
command line entries on console have been buffered for quite a while now.
This section is ... I think the word is deprecated :-)
--[[User:PocoLoco|PocoLoco]] 07:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

----
from irc:
terrain load doesn't need 256x256 anymore.
I you have a sim with multiple regions and you want to set all regions on that sim to be from one larger image you can use 'terrain load <file> <width in regions> <height in regions> <regionX> <regionY>
miyanokouji where regionX and regionY are the coordinates of the bottom-left region.

[[User:Markuser|Markuser]] 16:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)