http://opensimulator.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Marcus+Llewellyn 2026-05-11T23:19:01Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.19.9 http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-27 2015-10-28T04:18:36Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Added link to video recording of meeting.</p> <hr /> <div><br /> == Video of Meeting ==<br /> <br /> [https://archive.org/details/OpenSimDevMeeting20151027 Internet Acrhive: OpenSimulator Developer Meeting October 27, 2015]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> <br /> == Chat Log ==<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- Dev-meeting to begin in some minutes.. Note to european visitors: due to the difference in summer-/wintertimetime the meeting starts at 7PM CET --&gt;<br /> &lt;pre style=&quot;white-space: pre-wrap; <br /> white-space: -moz-pre-wrap;<br /> white-space: -pre-wrap;<br /> white-space: -o-pre-wrap; <br /> word-wrap: break-word&quot;&gt;<br /> [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br /> [11:04] Sheera Khan: and lots of &quot;unable to fetch profile data still :-/<br /> [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: unable to fetch data will likely be normal for HG travelers at the moment<br /> [11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: You're late. Again. We're docking your pay.<br /> [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: depends on what version of profiles the grid is running<br /> [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: unfrotunately osgrid still runs the original one<br /> [11:05] Sheera Khan: yes yes ...<br /> [11:05] Sheera Khan: I know ...<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Anyone who is interested in volunteering for OSCC this year please make sure to regsiter asap<br /> [11:06] Sheera Khan: maybe it could be a good idea to switch that with the mandatory update announced?<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2015/<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: that wont happen for a while<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so im not going to really get into that now<br /> [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: as I have no idea when that will happen<br /> [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: wont be before OSCC though<br /> [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: would be to chaotic<br /> [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it may not be as bad as you think either<br /> [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: if you are running 0.8.1-post fixes or newer you will be ok<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we will make sure everyone gets ample notice<br /> [11:08] Sheera Khan: sure, I'm on 0.8.2-DEV<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we wont just pull the trigger without a lot of notice<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: if you are on 0.8.1 dev fully updated you are probably ok already<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you know anyone who might be interested in OSCC volunteering or planning an event<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the second day this year is basically just all informal stuff<br /> [11:10] Sheera Khan: is there a special commit which has to be included to be save?<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt even have to be on the OSCC grid<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it hasnt really been determined yet Sheera, but I think right now its safe to say when it happens anyone running 0.8.1-post-fixes branch or newer will be ok<br /> [11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's timed for people in the netherlands on bad day. 5 december is feast day for many<br /> [11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: (not mne)<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: oh that sucks<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: my experieence tells me though that almost every day of the year somebody has something going on<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [11:11] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: well, mostly for people with kids..<br /> [11:11] Sheera Khan: well, Metro uses a relativly early 0.8.2-DEV that's from a time just about when 0.8.1-postfixes was released<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I have no doubt metro will be fine<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: as long as everyone is keeping up to date<br /> [11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sint nicolas here in the country<br /> [11:12] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i know, i'm dutch too :)<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok well be sure to email the conference commitee and let them know<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we can possibly avoid that in the future<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: you might be able to send notes when you register too<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: so please mention it then as well<br /> [11:13] Sheera Khan: 12/6 is St Nikolaus in Germany<br /> [11:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it will all be streamed and recorded<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so you could in theory watch on tablet or phone<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and still kind of partake<br /> [11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Has a atreaming service been chosen?<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: my time is very limited this year<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i cant really be on every team again<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect though that has not been fully decided and options are always welcome<br /> [11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: This year should be LOTS simpler to stream anyway.<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: maybe can even have multiple camera views going of same event<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: kind of as backup as well<br /> [11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year I sat so long doing it that I had cramps in my legs. lol<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: have to but sooner you can register as a volunteer and get involved the better<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: time is short<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its always a long weekend<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: this year will only be 1 hardcore day<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: so should be a bit less stress<br /> [11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: And only one track, yeah?<br /> [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yes all the presentations will occur in the keynote area<br /> [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and we will have expo zones like previous years<br /> [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but there will hopefully be a lot more external events this year<br /> [11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Why you cannot have a static camera. so you run it and not need todo much after that<br /> [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: so we can rely more on Hypergrid<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: basically that is what we do<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but sometimes there are slides<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and otehr things you need to focus on<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we have a nice camera hud<br /> [11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Because streamers also coordinate parcel audio, skype calls, etc. It's more complicated than it sounds.<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: that lets the person who is streaming pick various camera angles easily<br /> [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yea it is highly coordinated event<br /> [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of work, but its always fun too<br /> [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br /> [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: already seeing a lot of interest so that is good<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: bunch of volunteers have registerd, but we can certainly always use more<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so spread the word if you can<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: even if thats all you can do its great help<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: also I need some good builder types<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: who can clean up last years oars<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: the Landing Zone and Breakout zone<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: need to be cleaned up so I can share the oars<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i already have regions setup on OSCC grid to do it<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: we need to remove all the event stuff and make it more generric<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so basically its like a Landing Zone and Breakout Zone Template<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyway thats about it for OSCC. If you have questions just let me know<br /> [11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Willl there be door prizes? ;)<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Their has been talk of another prize hunt type game<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so we also need people who have good content they made who are ok with giving them as prizes<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: of course needs to be stuff that people will find interesting and useful<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: There will probably be some physical rewards for people who can donate at certain levels<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I will be making another 3D printed design<br /> [11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Phrasing. ;)<br /> [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: oops... I'm back. I'm in the middle of setting up a new server.<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: The Hypergrid Safari folks are heavily involved this year<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and they have some plans to show off hypergrid<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you can probably speak with them to be part of a tour<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if you have something cool to show off<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything else they wanted to talk about?<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: are we into DST yet?<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: no next week<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ok taht should be fun<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: take note all of you European Folks<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a 1 hour skew for a few weeks<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi taps mic... is this thing on...<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why is SL/OS mesh and importer so complex. grin. especially the Uvmapping si terrible. because the 102px limit<br /> [11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Huh?<br /> [11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: And still the quality is possibl;e but with bigger size<br /> [11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: What 102px limit?<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: honestly<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: many game engines have much lower limits<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you should feel luck to have 1024px support<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: with 8 of them<br /> [11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1024px texture size. well i big building you cannot uv-map from materials -&gt; baked<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you could do 8096x1024<br /> [11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tried to bake more the 1 , but nr.2 you get objects or image erros in blender<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: or 4096x4096<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: man my cat is being so annoying at the moment<br /> [11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: I do multiple materials (textures) in blebder all the time. Works grea.<br /> [11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: great<br /> [11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, thats' big in fielsize. but viewer cannot handle 4096<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no im saying tile them<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not a singletexture<br /> [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, if you have done it the High Fidelity and possible SanSar way. SL/OS is terrible<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you can use 8 1024x1024 on a single mesh object<br /> [11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: If you use all 8 materials, you can apply 8 1024 textures.<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: whaat<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: High Fideltiy was so bad<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: sure you can do whatever you want<br /> [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes marcvus. but bake 8 UV maps. i can do one. fail at bnr. 2<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but there are consequences<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: those limits are there for good reason<br /> [11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You don't have to bke 8 UV maps.<br /> [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i know. filesize<br /> [11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You can bake it all to one map.<br /> [11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: It sounds mostly like you need to learn more about blender, honestly.<br /> [11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. No the resolution is going so much down. a brick is not a brick anymore<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I would have to disagree<br /> [11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, i know blender perfect. works smooth in high fidelity<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: even HighFideltiy has limits<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: on how many materials<br /> [11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yup. but there you do not need to bake uv-maps<br /> [11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No mat. limit<br /> [11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: High Fidelity lets you be lazy. It lets you import unoptimized mesh. Here, everything is geared twoard trying to make you optimize.<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you think there is no limit<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you are sadly mistake<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try it<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i dare you<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try applying a huge texture<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it make work on 1 object<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but not 100s<br /> [11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. no, i think it's betetr in resources. instead one big or more big uv-maps you can use more small textures.<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: webgl will be way worse<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: you think this environment is bad<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: give webgl a shot<br /> [11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why you want to apply a hugh texture ? that's the bad size of OS/.SL there you need to use large texture for good quality. in HiFi you can do it with much smaller ones<br /> [11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Many small download is not better than one largish one. It's more network resources, more client resources.<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: most game engines what we do here in opensim<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: would be considered lunacy<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crazy town<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br /> [11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see yoou made it<br /> [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, bake 15 materials back to 1 uv map is a fail in quality<br /> [11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my script is acting strange here<br /> [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: baking 2 uv maps = error in blender. and not sure why it's doing that<br /> [11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: turn voice off -- then back on<br /> [11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: conflicting with other grids maby<br /> [11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: mayby<br /> [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I can say without a doubt texturing in blender is difficult<br /> [11:36] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br /> [11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Textureing in blender is peanuts<br /> [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but I can get just as good a quality here as I can in Unity or High Fidelity<br /> [11:37] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: texturing in blender is easy<br /> [11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aslong you not use baking<br /> [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it would be crazy to bake that much detail into 1 texture<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its your actions that dictate quality<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not the software<br /> [11:38] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my jetpack and helmet I baked in blender<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not in this case anyway<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: bake 8 textures<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: instead of 1<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you can back 100 textures in blender<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but OS of course wont support it<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: back=bake<br /> [11:38] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Nebadon can answer questions -- he is smat<br /> [11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: smart<br /> [11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: actually I been using 1 most the time, only complex buildings i need more than 1 texture<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: i read that with boston accent<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: whicked smat<br /> [11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: small things are good to bake. buildings not. i wher ehoping to split it on more uv baked maps. but blender not uinderstand it after bake 1<br /> [11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats like a matter of Training Richardus<br /> [11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: furniture etc. i would try to bake.<br /> [11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: this is a good place to visit<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: baking textures i an artform<br /> [11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am takiingLM<br /> [11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: you UV unwrap the sections you want to have a different texture on<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: however i would be surprised if any of use area actually hittin the limits of quality here<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i cant speak for everyone<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but i know im quite far from being a blender master<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and I very happy with quality<br /> [11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: UV unwrap separate Materials<br /> [11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well tell em what is wrong. because on the second object in the same project i did the same steps as with the forst one that did bake fine. but the seconde i get the object not found image not foudn error. and i have a black new image to bake on<br /> [11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: use &quot;P&quot; to &quot;separate&quot; the materials as well for more materials than 8<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am still learning texturing in blender<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have the basics down, and I have experiment with baking ambient occlusion<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it can be complicated<br /> [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No , not use P. it's already seperated 1 3 parts with building<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have it set right<br /> [11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Neb -- can donny show a different display name instead of the one he is now using?<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason blender couldnt bake 1000 textures simultaneously<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: might take a few days<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but it can<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Selby no we do not have Display Name functionality<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would have to make a new account<br /> [11:42] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks -- Thats what i thougt<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I was playing with Blender Fire and Smoke few days ago<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its really awesome<br /> [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: cool.<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: voxels<br /> [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: The whole baking is getting anyway a bit pushed in the background next year i think. not say that the auto splitter is a good idea<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqnOKhx4NIc<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: you could easily use blender fire an smoke I think to generate a 16 cell fire animation<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: here<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i havent gotten that far yet<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: id like to try it<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: like the one in the fireplace behind me<br /> [11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: selected the material when done with it, on your mesh, by going in &quot;edit mode&quot;, press &quot;A&quot; to select all, then again to deselect or click until all faces are not selected, and make sure you click &quot;face edit mode&quot;, then in the materials panel, click the material you want to change or UV unwrap, then click the select button below the materials page, to select all of this material type, make sure seams are already marked, and this assumes they are already marked, and then press &quot;U&quot; and &quot;Unwrap&quot; and adjust as needed, you can keep it with the model, or press &quot;P&quot; to separate it form the rest of the build to make room for more Materials.<br /> [11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i have been starting to collect good blender tutorials<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and putting links here<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/opensim/viewforum.php?f=14&amp;sid=9a43f4b234ad086ba3acfc5445fe3391<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone is interested<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or has some good stuff for beginners<br /> [11:46] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: feel free to use my text as a tutorial<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I can add them up<br /> [11:46] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.<br /> [11:47] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb<br /> [11:48] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have to go -- thanks Nebadon<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no problem, same time every week :)<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I have to say I learned a lot about blender and good modeling practices trying to port my content from opensim to Unity WebGL<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to become a master modeler get your content viewable in WebGL<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its to easy to be sloppy here<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: while those same good principles apply here, we very loosely enforce them<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if we even do at all<br /> [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Best practices for importing models to Blender so they can be converted to Collada format would also be helpful.<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya that takes a lot of experimenting i have found<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say there is a 1 fit solution<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: from my experience anyway<br /> [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the amount of variables is staggering<br /> [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll be working on another model in Rhino soon that I will want to bring in to OS.<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I found Rhino to be the most difficult<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: that i have had to deal with so far anyway<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Archicad is close<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: most of the Autocad apps are farly easy<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but not all formats are importable to blender<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: like .max<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but .3ds is awesome<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: my favorite to convert<br /> [11:52] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: got a link to WebGL?<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: well WebGL is the Web Browser version of OpenGL<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that we use<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Might help just knowing what file format to use when I export from Rhino.<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its a low level programming language<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I'll try .3ds next time. I've been using .obj.<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yes .3ds is safest bet from Rhino<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: .obj is good for Geometry as well<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but not for materials<br /> [11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hmm. stupid. i do not need to bake everything to uv-map. only smaller parts. bit not think it make things faster uv-map is bigger then seperate textures still<br /> [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, they just both generate lots of triangles/faces and such I don't think about in Rhino.<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya Rhino has no concept of triangles<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: until you export<br /> [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its all nurbs and stuff<br /> [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Then I find I have to start decimating the model.<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: well I have no issues with my builds, so I am going back home<br /> [11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: nice meeting ya<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the last rhino model i did was 3 million triangles<br /> [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br /> [11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: just have issues with scripts<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/Upplands_Vasby/archive/Upplands_Vasby_01_002.png<br /> [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I pulled in a detailed model of a Millennium Falcon and it was definitely up there. I forget how big it was.<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that crazy train station was from Rhinop<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i eventually got it into OpenSim<br /> [11:55] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: llLoopSound and llPlaySound are reversed in scripting<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: was a pain<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: almost 3 million triangles<br /> [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, nice blimp<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats a freebie i give out<br /> 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: from OSCC last year actually<br /> [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be fun to script that as a touring blimp.<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: appears i dont have a copy of it in this inventory<br /> [11:56] Ubit Umarov: (oops )<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea especially once border cross is better<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ubit<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: just so you are aware Ubit<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: DST starts in USA next week<br /> [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: and in Canada<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so there is skew for EU and USE for few weeks<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: USA* ah yea it does change for canada too? right?<br /> [11:57] Ubit Umarov: hmm ok<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: I will try to remind on Irc next week<br /> [11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: No change in s arizona<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i was a few minutes late myself today<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya I miss Arizona<br /> [11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: hehe<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: accept for when all the TV shows change time<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but the clock didnt<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that always annoyed me<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: yes very confusing<br /> [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Clocks in Canada change the first weekend in November, nebadon.<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool same as here<br /> [11:58] Ubit Umarov: hmm think also here in eu<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there will be 2 or 3 meetings before EU changes<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think<br /> [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, unless you are in one of the prairie provinces which don't change their clocks, afaicr<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: unless you guys changed again<br /> [11:58] Ubit Umarov: last sunday of oct ?<br /> [11:58] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: uh.. eu changed last weekend<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok<br /> [11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: :)<br /> [11:59] Ubit Umarov: ahh yes last sunday was last lol<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: so overall the entire thing is shorter for EU?<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: man DST is a nightmare<br /> [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: longer if they already changed clocks.<br /> [11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the need to dump summertime worldwide. or dump wintertime and keep the summer all year<br /> [11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: indeed :)<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya seriously<br /> [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, lets just dump winter. :)<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br /> [11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: as if timezones weren't complicated enough<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not looking forward to January in Sweden<br /> [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I know. 36 timezones around the world.<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: be all cold and dark<br /> [12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah up north it gets even worse<br /> [12:00] Ubit Umarov: hmm forgot to fix my clocks lol<br /> [12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: no daylight for days!<br /> [12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: weeks..<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: that is basically when im going to sweden<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its like 4-5 hours of sun<br /> [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, for months if you are far enough north.<br /> [12:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: at least there's the aurora borealis to make up for it<br /> [12:02] Marcus Llewellyn looks around for something to stick a fork into.<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I will try to remind on IRC next week<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there will still be confusion<br /> [12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, out of pumpkins<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: atleast its just 1 week<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: 1 more week i should say<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: I remember last year when for 5 minutes i thought we sheduled OSCC on DST day<br /> [12:03] Ubit Umarov: there is a thing called.. UTC but well<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: then i realized i was looking at wrong year<br /> [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Grid time for meeting doesn't change so compare grid time to local time after the change and before the next meeting.<br /> [12:04] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: I'm getting confused already<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br /> [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup, as long you remember<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am pretty sure that is the entire goal of DST<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: keep everyone confused as much as possible<br /> [12:04] Ubit Umarov: lol<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: the OSCC grid is open<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone wants to poke around see how it holds up<br /> [12:06] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: hgurl?<br /> [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Same HG info as before?<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: you can HG there by going to http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 Landing Zone 1<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: actually<br /> [12:06] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: 24/7 or just for now?<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: let me give you the HG landing Zonw<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Landing Zone 1 may not be HG accessible<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its &gt; http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 &quot;HG Landing Zone&quot;<br /> [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I don't have the Landing zone. I have LM's for the four keynotes<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: Keynote is fine as well<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: the entire grid is not running quite yet<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but there is enough to poke around see how it feels<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe in few weeks after I am back from California<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: like 1/2 way through one of these meetings we can all jump to the Keynote<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: and run around like crazy people<br /> [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What code will be used for the OSCC regions?<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: not sure<br /> [12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think same as last yetar ?<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 0.8.2 release<br /> [12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha<br /> [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: worst case i may bring it up to the level Avacon grid is running<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: which is a later 0.8.1-dev<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: right now its running code from last year<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: but on reloaded server<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: went from opensuse 11.4 to 13.1<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: last year we ran on 11.4<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was aincent<br /> [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be worth trying to use latest 082 and see how it holds up.<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there was mummies!<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: If you were really being adventurous you could use the avnmerge branch. ;)<br /> [12:12] Ubit Umarov: :)<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: no we wont do that directly<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: but we could have a place here on this grid so people could come try it<br /> [12:12] Ubit Umarov: actually just pushed a fix to master, taken from avnmerge :p<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: nice<br /> [12:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev 41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the recent changes to master since 0.8.2 came out coming from avnmerge?<br /> [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Or are they other changes that need to be copied to avnmerge?<br /> [12:14] Ubit Umarov: no previus one i did it for master only<br /> [12:14] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: off to poke around been fun<br /> [12:14] Ubit Umarov: but avn had the issues fixed<br /> [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: k<br /> [12:14] Ubit Umarov: just a bit diferent code path in same cases<br /> [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Just complicates things if code is being changed/fixed in master and those changes/fixes are handled differently in avnmerge or need to be copied to that avnmerge branch.<br /> [12:15] Ubit Umarov: pervius was the ode crash, if wearign hair with fireworks :)<br /> [12:15] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (2.71 m).<br /> [12:15] Ubit Umarov: previus..<br /> [12:16] Ubit Umarov: today was a services crash with wrong number of visualparameters<br /> [12:16] Ubit Umarov: the broken singu alpha is doing that<br /> [12:16] Kymmy Krasner: oo did osg crash<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: hey sorry i got a call<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get going anyway, i didnt even realize what time it is<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I've stopped using Sing until I can check whether it is usable once more.<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they need from me before i get going?<br /> [12:17] Ubit Umarov: the release seems ok<br /> [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I couldn't remind you of the meeting as you were on IRC.<br /> [12:17] Marcus Llewellyn: I gotta skedaddle too. Video of the meeting will be available on Youtube and the INternet Archive this evening.<br /> [12:17] Ubit Umarov: alpha is a disaster here<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: oh yea i rebooted machien<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: i never went back to IRC duh<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me do that<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive been so busy<br /> [12:17] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: is Simcrossing workin on 0.8.3 ?<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: no<br /> [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I know. I was trying to work out how far back I have to go to get a stable Sing Alpha<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: only avinationmerge border cross works<br /> [12:18] Ubit Umarov: it is.. if u cross naked at least :p<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch name<br /> [12:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ok, thx<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: git checkout avinationmerge<br /> [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have to go back at least one more than i already have, AFAICT<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: after you clone repo<br /> [12:18] Ubit Umarov: go back andrew ?<br /> [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, to an earlier release of Sing Alpha.<br /> [12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: border cross doesn't work?<br /> [12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i hadn't noticed that yet :)<br /> [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Sing Alpha I have still crashes too easily.<br /> [12:19] Ubit Umarov: ahh ppl say last ok is 6610<br /> [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: That might be a version that came out after they fixed the bug(s) that made it crash in less than 1.5 minutes.<br /> [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: And that was without doing anything<br /> [12:20] Ubit Umarov: on lst alpha avatar wearables are broken<br /> [12:21] Ubit Umarov: to the point they could kill services ( mantis 7732)<br /> [12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have 6610 and I still don't think it is stable enough.<br /> [12:21] Ubit Umarov: anything around is stable ? :)<br /> [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br /> [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Usable?<br /> [12:22] Ubit Umarov: back to the point i need to change viewers acording to what i want to do lol<br /> [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys thanks for coming I really have to go<br /> [12:22] Ubit Umarov: well almost :)<br /> [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: alpha was crashing if I just looked at it funny. Didn't have to do much.<br /> [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: shout on IRC if you need me<br /> [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: im back on<br /> [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. I still need to switch to Firestorm to talk on voice. I can't use Sing.<br /> [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: Dont forget about OSCC!!<br /> [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: see ya<br /> [12:23] Ubit Umarov: see if my push<br /> [12:23] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: my ROBUST returns every 30 min a [wifi] defaul request...whats that ???<br /> [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I'll head out too. Gotta run some errands.<br /> &lt;/pre&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-13 2015-10-28T04:15:36Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Added link to video recording of meeting.</p> <hr /> <div><br /> == Video of Meeting ==<br /> <br /> [https://archive.org/details/OpenSimDevMeeting20151013 Internet Acrhive: OpenSimulator Developer Meeting October 13, 2015]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> <br /> == Chat Log ==<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> [11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yesterday someone was posting in G+ about the latest version of FS having issues with grinding to a halt in a 12x12 var and my first thought was how in hell you could do anything meaningful i a 12x12 in the first place<br /> [11:02] Marcus Llewellyn: Heh<br /> [11:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and they mentioned residents, etc so I'm thinking it was set up as a residential community<br /> [11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so even if you give 1 &quot;region&quot; per person, that's 144 people putting down their stuff<br /> [11:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if each one only puts 2k items and 100 scripts *per region* that's still going to be ~300k items and 14k scripts to handle<br /> [11:03] Kayaker Magic: The lack of good region crossings has driven people to make huge Vars.<br /> [11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = dead simulator *long* before the viewer becomes an issue<br /> [11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but huge *empty* vars<br /> [11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you start filling that space with your &quot;average&quot; person's 256x256 content that would rapidly kill the instance<br /> [11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's common to see 10k objects and 1500 scripts in a single regions<br /> [11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so start multiplying that by the number of &quot;regions&quot; in the var and that gets insane<br /> [11:05] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nebadon is on his way<br /> [11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh i know some that did pusg 40K and i think 2000 scripts on 1 normal region<br /> [11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not much diiferent then when people host 20+ regions in a single sim instance on their home computer. Insert face palm.<br /> [11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sure<br /> [11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can see it for a mostly-water sailing area<br /> [11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or maybe a racetrack or flying area<br /> [11:06] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we tell people large vars are not recomended but they dont listen, or dont want to listen<br /> [11:06] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit &amp; launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br /> [11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as you don't put down very much stuff at all<br /> [11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Depending on the home computer that in itself isn't too bad. Connections tend to be the bigger issue with home-hosted<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br /> [11:06] Kayaker Magic: I know a guy who is building models of cities, and just wants vehicles to move freely through them. Presumably he will control the prim content and visitors will not bring a lot of content.<br /> [11:07] Kayaker Magic: So he wants a 12x12<br /> [11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hi all<br /> [11:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi neb, hi rechardus<br /> [11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I hope it's 99% prim cubes with a building texture on it<br /> [11:07] Shy Robbiani: hi all<br /> [11:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi shy<br /> [11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i created a var, to lower simborders. and it saves resources. and it's running good only 3x3 not fully packed 25K i think<br /> [11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the other strong recommendation that Justin used to say was 1 core per region<br /> [11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so a 12x12 would ideally have access to 144 cores<br /> [11:08] Kayaker Magic: supercomputer<br /> [11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: That's more for heavily loaded regions or large numbers of visitors.<br /> [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: Aine thats not necesarily true<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: size of the simulator has nothing to do with it really<br /> [11:09] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: thats based on SL recommendations from years ago, is 1 core per region being generous with todays tech?<br /> [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I know it was a gross overgeneralization<br /> [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and depends a lot on content<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: generally we recommend 1 core minimum per simulator is mostly becasue of physics<br /> [11:10] Shy Robbiani: on content and scripts<br /> [11:10] Hippo Finesmith: hi folkks<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: you only 1 get 1 physics thread per simulator<br /> [11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but trying to run a 12x12 on4 physical cores is going to be nasty unless there aren't many scripts and objects<br /> [11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi hippo<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: well those are not cpu limits though<br /> [11:10] OtakuMegane Desu: Physics or very heavy scripts/avatar population. If you're not going to strain any of those, just keep an eye on CPU usage and you'll be fine with whatever works.<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: generally the problem with large regions is I/O problem<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: not a cpu problem<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: the terrain is huge<br /> [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: 12x12 you are nearing Gigabyte range<br /> [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you'd need a huge amount of RAM too, I would assume<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of size of the terrain<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: 100's of megabytes anyway<br /> [11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway, I wouldn't personally try anything larger than a 4x4<br /> [11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and at the rate I build, it would take me a decade to finish that<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea technically there are issues you could encounter beyond that anyway really<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer just doesnt handle terrain larger than that very well<br /> [11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. Once I got to like 5x5 and 6x6 it started to show little issues and lag and that was for an empty region.<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: there will be performance issues to deal with<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yea technically it will work<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and might seem awesome for 1 avatar<br /> [11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Nothing you couldn't live with if you really needed the size but things that could be noticed<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but try having 10 avatars log in simulatneously<br /> [11:13] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: hello to all<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: or cross a border<br /> [11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im using 3x3 but testing with 4x4, i think 4x4 will be ok when parcel updates can be sent for view distance with out the ghost parcel bug<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: it will crash probably<br /> [11:13] OtakuMegane Desu: Border crossing to/from vars into other size regions is still wonky at best I find.<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you want a big sandbox for experimenting large vars are great, but that experience will not translate into a good production level experience<br /> [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: the smaller they are the better it works<br /> [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: probably okay for 1 or 2 avi<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: with 768x768 we use in Encitragrid<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think i have ever had a border crossing fail<br /> [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but anything more than that and I'd expect it to crash and burn<br /> [11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: You have to have a very extensive build or need maybe lots of water to really use much past 4x4 anyway.<br /> [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: It's a lot of space to just start building in<br /> [11:15] Hippo Finesmith: i find it hard to fill a 256x256 but im no builder lol<br /> [11:15] Mercalia Beck: I have 4x2 mega on a 2x2 ghz is ok<br /> [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think Cute said something about needing a 8x8 for a flight simulator or something<br /> [11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I could see flight or sailing sims needing that kind of space<br /> [11:16] Kayaker Magic: I write forest rezzers to plant lots of trees to fill in the terrain.<br /> [11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, there are good use cases. BUt the majority of people will never need half that.<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: in very controlled environments i think large vars are ok<br /> [11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as the terrain is mostly empty that would work fine<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but in an open area you expect lots of visitors and concurency<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its a bad idea<br /> [11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeps<br /> [11:17] Kayaker Magic: So reliable vehicle crossing borders would calm people down from wanting big vars.<br /> [11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: The avination code may provide that finally. I haven't tested that myswlf.<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: yes eventually it will<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: right now it probably only works with ubODE<br /> [11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: I only have one sim on avinationmerge<br /> [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Scrap that word reliable.. SL still have not reliable sim corssings. so for opensim it's further away<br /> [11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my guess is any border crossing between simulators will never be good unless they're on the same host machine or, at least, in the same host LAN<br /> [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but crossing from my region hosted in Montreal to person X's region hosted in Paras is always going to suck badly<br /> [11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: SL border crossings suck because things tend to be overloaded and LL hasn't put much effort into fixing them in ages that I know of.<br /> [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Region crossings of any sort always have an element of peril on a grid like OSgrid. ;)<br /> [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or that would be my expectation<br /> [11:19] Lucy Afarensis: I was next to a guy from australia<br /> [11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: Users have learned to live with it, they still get their rent and that's that. :P<br /> [11:19] Lucy Afarensis: Im in michigan'<br /> [11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe...that's a bit of a hike for the data to take :p<br /> [11:20] Lucy Afarensis: yes<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of people running from machines at home have residential level routers<br /> [11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: swimming back and forth across the Pacific<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: are not always the best or fastest for routing the amount of traffic opensim and the viewer can generate<br /> [11:20] Hippo Finesmith: and silly adsl upload speeds<br /> [11:20] Shy Robbiani: I've been waiting for border-crossing for ages<br /> [11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess the biggest issue is lack of predictive need to cross<br /> [11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Biggest issue with home hosting anything really is the connection. Even very good downstream doesn't guarantee upstream is that good.<br /> [11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you knew in advance you could presend/prefetch and then just quickly hand over<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: even slow bandwidth is less of an issue honestly<br /> [11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the way it is now requires everything to all go at once<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i remember long time ago having 17 users on a 5Mbps upstream connection<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and it wasnt bad<br /> [11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: My downstream is fine. My up is 1mb. That's awful. It's why I've never promoted my sims, or hosted parties, etc. I can't.<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but a bad router can be a disaster<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: small NAT tables<br /> [11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Third party firmware can help (a bit) on a home router.<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: some routers are horrible at UDP too<br /> [11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had 20 on my 5Mb up and it wasn't bad...but they all came spaced out by 2+ minutes and were seated<br /> [11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Well upstream like that isn't as uncommon now but still plenty of DSL connections that're maybe half that or less.<br /> [11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's surviving the intial login that's the hardest<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: I used to connect to a grid in Honk Kong<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: and it was rarely a problem<br /> [11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: And of course, the router. Even if it handles decently there's the hell of making most of them even function properly. HOme routers aren't designed for hosting and some even actively try to block it by lack of features, etc.<br /> [11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Initial region rezzing when it isn't cached on a user's side can kill home upstream pretty easily.<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [11:24] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Once that settles down, it can get pretty smooth.<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i like to have &quot;fcache assets&quot; run on every startup<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: incase cache gets cleared<br /> [11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeps<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i have startup_commands.txt run &quot;fcache assets&quot;<br /> [11:25] Hippo Finesmith: same here<br /> [11:25] Shy Robbiani: good idea<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: this way you prevent that first no region cache login<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: which usually is like 10 minutes of not being able to move<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and stuck as a cloud<br /> [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: That's a good idea, but only half the issue. You sure don't want the sim refetching a whole region from the asset servers while a user is simultaneously fetching to their cache. But on a limited upstream pipe, just the latter is a killer.<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i found something interesting few days ago on OSCC grid<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: we do something different there<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: we have all textures served directly from robust<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: instead of routing through simulators<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: we have 4 texture servers, one for each keynote<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: on ports 8006, 8016, 8026, 8036<br /> [11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: That's just a CAP change in the INI, ain't it?<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: well i forgot to open port 8006 to the world<br /> [11:27] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: calling fcache assets will only cache what is missing, so if the cache isnt empty it shouldnt be a problem to run every start up<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: so any region that was reliant on texture server on 8006 couldnt reach it<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: well man this did a major number on the viewer<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i was getting like 2fps<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: couldnt move<br /> [11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: Heh<br /> [11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ouch<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: even though local cache was full<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: totally populated<br /> [11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: Have you updated OSCC to master(ish)?<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it took 20-30 minutes for all textures to become visible<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: so it seems if there is any disruption in the texture pipleine<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: its very very nasty<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: made my PC run really really bad<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: which has a dominoe effect<br /> [11:29] OtakuMegane Desu: Interesting<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: at it compounds itself<br /> [11:29] Lucy Afarensis: Things were ok when the safari visited<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: UDP starts to get out of sync so it starts retrying a lot<br /> [11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: maybe the pipeline with OpenGL gets flooded with &quot;I don't have that texture yet&quot; messages?<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: which also spikes cpu on the server<br /> [11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: One need look no further than Wright Plaza to see the impact textures can have on rez time. Prims zip into existance. You can watch the texture queue grind for minutes.<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: which in turn leads to heavy thread use<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: if its bad enough it wont fully recover<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: yea but what was interesting<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: in OSCC Staff Zone i normally get like 50-60gps<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: when texture pipeline cuts off, even once everything loaded and was visible<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: my frame rate was like 10fps<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: at most<br /> [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interesting<br /> [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I wonder why<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: because the server has threads tied up<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: trying to reach texture pipeline<br /> [11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, is opensim getting problems now LL is pulling more old udp type code out of the viewer. more work for tpv's to keep it in<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem like much of an issue<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: since the TPVs dont seem to be doing much anymore<br /> [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's what i guiessed<br /> [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: viewer development is very slow at the moment<br /> [11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: TPVs patch in their own little features onto the base code and cal it a day any more it seems.<br /> [11:32] Shy Robbiani: what needs to be changed to get the textures directly from robust? and does it mean, you cant do it if you are not the Grid owner, because the ports wont be open?<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: besides what LL is doing is not creating new stuff<br /> [11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I don't think anyone is really digging at the rendering or trying to optimize stuff.<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: they are trying to make the grid run better on less hardware<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: so its not like we have to follow them at all anymore<br /> [11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 raises an eyebrow<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I think most of the stuff LL is doing is preparing for the grid to get a lot smaller soon<br /> [11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a year or two ago and you'd be burning at the stake for that statement :p<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: well I think they want to keep the grid alive<br /> [11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: We shouldn't follow them, either. SL is SL. Opensim has some legs now, it can take a path of its own and will almost certainly be better for it.<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but with considerably less staff<br /> [11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 gets the marshmallows<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so I think that is their focus<br /> [11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Sl will be put into maintenence mode at some point. And that is most likely LL's current focus.<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: shift the back end into something more managable by less people<br /> [11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol, Aine. i still see stake's around<br /> [11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right....they won't be generating the revenue to make it viable to have extensive back ends<br /> [11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm....chat just froze, it seems<br /> [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: People not like to hear it. but SL start toi get EOL. so maintenence mode sound right in 1 or 2 years<br /> [11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if they were continuing to develop, it never seems like SL is really growing any more.<br /> [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would think that when SL2.0 comes online to the masses they'll want to take a lot of existing SL hardware and use if for that<br /> [11:37] Shy Robbiani: a problem I see is that most viewers still depend on the code of Linden Lab<br /> [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: If LL has any firing brain cells, they won't do anything to kill their golden goose yet. Not even the appearance of EOL if they can help it. Until Sansara is a reality and has traction, LL will make sure SL keeps ticking.<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya I doubt SL will go dark for a long time<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but no doubt in order to keep SL profitable<br /> [11:38] Mercalia Beck: maybe they open the hg gate to opensim lol<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: it means reducing staff considerably<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and fast<br /> [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: staff and/or capital/infrastructure investments<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but most will shift their interest to new technology<br /> [11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: SL will hang on for a long time I'm sure. But it'll pretty much exist for the more dedicated users who hang around.<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: the LL staff that is<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they will be moved to new projct<br /> [11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br /> [11:39] Shy Robbiani: exactly<br /> [11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: There's always holdouts. We *still* have people popping into IRC complaining about how this or that won't work in Imprudence. ;)<br /> [11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: omg<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya well a lot of people just wont have the hardware for the new grid<br /> [11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Of course. You always have holdouts for almost any situation lol<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: even if they want to<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: they wont be able to<br /> [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there are still people refusing to upgrade beyond 0.76<br /> [11:40] Mercalia Beck: me included<br /> [11:40] Mercalia Beck: as use DIv<br /> [11:40] Mercalia Beck: Diva<br /> [11:40] Mercalia Beck: and the .81 is crap<br /> [11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: At some point, you have to stop letting those ooold Intel GPUs holding you hostage against progress.<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i remember 0.76 not being good at all<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it had its moments<br /> [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hi mercelia<br /> [11:41] Mercalia Beck: well works better than the .81 in latest Diva<br /> [11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: Sl isn't the only option around now, though. VWs and sandbox games are becoming more common now.<br /> [11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there was a lot less basic HG stuff that wasn't broken in 0.76 but is now<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i certainly dont think 0.7.6 is better than 0.8.1<br /> [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: 0.76 still had the 4096 jump issue, for example. 0.8.1 got HELLA tested last yeat at OSCC. It's an awesome release.<br /> [11:41] Mercalia Beck: is<br /> [11:42] Mercalia Beck: mega in ,81 100% broken<br /> [11:42] Shy Robbiani nods towards Aine<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: mega will be removed soon<br /> [11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Megas are deprecated.<br /> [11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: It's been a while since I really saw a reason not to upgrade when a release came about.<br /> [11:42] Mercalia Beck: maybe<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: mega was always broke<br /> [11:42] Mercalia Beck: well in .81 is 200% broken<br /> [11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Even if they weren't deprectaed, they have *always* been an experimental feature. They were *never* promised to be stable.<br /> [11:42] Shy Robbiani: lol<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Megas were always a broken hack<br /> [11:42] Mercalia Beck: mine works very well<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: that was never complete<br /> [11:43] Mercalia Beck: smooth<br /> [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: I personally never recommended people use megas.<br /> [11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Mega was a kludge to get around the viewer limitations on region size. A neat hack, yes, but not something you really wanted to keep around longer than necessary.<br /> [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it wouid just be nice if there was a concerted effort at some point to fix a lot of the things that got broken with 0.8x<br /> [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I guess fixing isn't nearly as sexy as writing new bugs<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yea if you were to try Var regions<br /> [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Merecelia, use var's not mega's<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: you would never consider a mega ever again<br /> [11:43] Mercalia Beck: if and when var can do retangles then I move<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: vars are crap<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: never worked as well as vars do now<br /> [11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br /> [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Migration from a mega to a var requires only a little effort.<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: sorry megas are crap<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: they never worked as well as vars do now<br /> [11:44] Mercalia Beck: when var can do rectangles then U move<br /> [11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: That reminds me, is there a particular reason vars can't do rectangles, only square?<br /> [11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Var's are no crap. normal sims are crap with the simborders. and extre cost of resources. running 9 simulators or only 1 with var. big difference<br /> [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there a technical reason why var can't do rectangles?<br /> [11:44] Shy Robbiani: a problem with vars are still the terrain textures<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: vars will never do that<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: its not possible<br /> [11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ok. nebadon. lol<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: without major viewer changes<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: non square vars<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that is<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: because of how terrain is handled<br /> [11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 3 watrer sims on var not take much resoiurce<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: its not possible<br /> [11:44] Mercalia Beck: so vars arre CRAP also<br /> [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...it's viewer end<br /> [11:45] Shy Robbiani: lol<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: technically megas didnt support non square either<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: unless you had no neighbors<br /> [11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think official mega's did not support rectange too<br /> [11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: Go with a square, and Just make the unused portion sea. Problem solved.<br /> [11:45] Mercalia Beck: well my mega is 4x2<br /> [11:45] Mercalia Beck: and very nice<br /> [11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: So they won't do it in the forseeable future then. Viewer limits sometimes get fixed.<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea I am not going to argue with you Mercalia, but your argument isnt convincing at all<br /> [11:45] Shy Robbiani: right, but in general it's easy to stay isolated<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: vars are far superior to meags<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: saying otherwise tells me you never used a var<br /> [11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: 5 years ago when I was begging for actual regions bigger than 256 I got told that wouldn't happen. Go use a mega. :P<br /> [11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: So maybe rectangle vars will come eventually. But probably not for a good while.<br /> [11:46] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: Simcrossing with Vehicles are posible now ?????<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you a 3x3 var will run considerably better thna 2x3 mega<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: will use less resources<br /> [11:46] Mercalia Beck: hmm<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and support much more in terms of LSL<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: like the land functions<br /> [11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: Core devs are not oracles. ;) They work on what they need or what interests them at the time. And those needs/interests change.<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: terrain events<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: they dont work in Megas<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: never did, never will<br /> [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Simcrossing with vehicles is coming in the Avination merge<br /> [11:47] Mercalia Beck: when diva move to .81 will look again<br /> [11:47] Mercalia Beck: to .82<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: vehicles are also far better in vars<br /> [11:47] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: Kaya<br /> [11:47] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: thx<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: yea, if you get stuck or have issues, be sure to ask for help<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: because from a technical perspective 0.8.1 should blow the doors off 0.7.6<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: however<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there are considerable ini changes<br /> [11:48] Mercalia Beck: in what way?<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and if you use old inis you may have issues<br /> [11:48] Mercalia Beck: I have a nice smooth tour boat working<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: oh 1000s of bugs fixed<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so many performance enhancements it would take days to list them all<br /> [11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: Performance for one thing. 0.8.1 got load tested out the wazoo.<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: your talking about 2+ years of work<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: 0.7.6 is old<br /> [11:48] Mercalia Beck: i know<br /> [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 3 years now, isn't it<br /> [11:49] Mercalia Beck: but works<br /> [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or 3.5<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya very close to 3 actually<br /> [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: spring 0f 2011 iirc<br /> [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or was that the Chrstmas one<br /> [11:49] Mercalia Beck: as for viewer<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt alot of things have changed<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and some old bug work arounds may not work anymore<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately people tend to adopt bugs as features<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and when we fix them they get upset<br /> [11:50] Mercalia Beck: eg singulaity dont show maps of land where as Imprudence dows<br /> [11:50] Mercalia Beck: so much for progress<br /> [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't have that issue.<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: me either<br /> [11:50] OtakuMegane Desu: Maps of land?<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: just because you experience something doesnt mean everyone does<br /> [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: And if you're using 0.7.6, well... no wonder it works better with an older viewer.<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i never have map issues myself<br /> [11:50] Mercalia Beck: no here now<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: im on replex<br /> [11:51] Mercalia Beck: cant see lanf n map<br /> [11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have seen in noimral mapmode with singularity that terrain is issing. but always use warp3d at startup. that is working fine<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: which is old singularity<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: its really old<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and it works fine<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I see all the map tiles<br /> [11:51] Mercalia Beck: I have latest version<br /> [11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes singularity is running behinmd with updates<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i heard altest singularity is broken<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i thought<br /> [11:51] Shy Robbiani: I have map issues... but another kind of issue<br /> [11:51] OtakuMegane Desu: Same. I haven't run into map issues in recent memory.<br /> [11:51] Lucy Afarensis: Takes a while to load<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i would try the previous release of singularity<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and not the latest<br /> [11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: anyway i see the maptiles from osgrid fine in singularity. i think i use 5627. checking<br /> [11:52] Mercalia Beck: seems to crash a lot also<br /> [11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but osgrid use warp3d ?<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i also dont experience that, these things could all be local issues to your machine though too<br /> [11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do have a question re OSG and Opensim....<br /> [11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: singularity is pretty stable the one i use<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you what you are saying Mercalia doesnt sound like what i hear from the majority of OSgrid users<br /> [11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Singularity Viewer (64 bit) 1.8.6 (6157)<br /> [11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: OSgrid uses whatever simops configure. ;) I use the old maptile generator, and not warp3d myswlf.<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont doubt you are having issues<br /> [11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: I'm on the 6583 Alpha for Sing. Haven't bothered to go further especially hearing the latest one have a bunch of issues<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but it sounds potentially like some may be local issues<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: not wide spread ones<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is not uncommon at all<br /> [11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: doesnt the viewer have two ways to get maps, the old udp way and new http way?<br /> [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I am assuming that OSG is not intending to update your profiles module anytime soon so is there some way to have Opensim *not* choke on an OSG user visiting a grid that uses core (V2) profiles?<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know Aine, I know I dont have the time for that<br /> [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: currently it can generate hundreds or even thousands of lines of errors on HG login<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to ask the other admins<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its possible we could fix the non core groups<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so they work better together<br /> [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if OSG isn't intending to change ti would be nice to be able to have Opensim *not* choke on it<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that would be the beter thing to do I think<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: PLugh was doing some tweaking to flotsam groups recently.<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea we talked about it breifly<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i havent had any time to work on much in terms of opensim<br /> [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (though would be better from a useful testing perspective if OSG were actually running core code)<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: between my job and OSCC coming up fast<br /> [11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: Basically, pester Plugh. &gt;:)<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i wont have time for much until after the first of the year<br /> [11:55] Kayaker Magic: There is an OSCC coming up? When?<br /> [11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: December.<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: December 5th, watch for annoucements any day<br /> [11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: osgrid need to switch to V2<br /> [11:55] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: YES TRUE<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus there is no gauranteee that would improve it<br /> [11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yup. but then there's a reason to improve it :)<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I cant say for sure core profiles will hold up to such large grid<br /> [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would be useful if OSG did, but it might not be feasible....the main thing is to reduce the extremely heavy hit on an OSG HG user visiting another grid<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any OSG person who enters one of my sims causes a massive spike<br /> [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs more or less any other grid is no problem at all<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I would prefer to fix profiles v1 to be more compatible<br /> [11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: Remeber OSG people, HG to Aine's sims often. &gt;:)<br /> [11:58] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: thanks for Infos, Bye<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: im kind of suprised there would be any kind of performance hit though<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i mean sure its noisy, but id need more convincing its actually a performance issue<br /> [11:58] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: in the advanced menu there is an option to use web map tiles, if thats disabled it might cause maps to not work with newer sims<br /> [11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: depends on their inventory and folder structure<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i havent experienced any performance issues teleporting to Encitra grid or Avacon grid from OSgrid<br /> [11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interesting....chat just ate 2 lines that I typed<br /> [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: Wright may need a kick when we're done. ;)<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: chats seemed ok here for me, maybe getting lucky though<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yea im not even logged into console to look at it<br /> [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: I have had occasional chat lag, but no lost msgs.<br /> [11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mostly chat is fine....just once in a while it drops<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt restart it today<br /> [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: Speakig of done, we're at the hour mark. Just FYI. :)<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: chat is one of those finicky things<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: that local lag / packet loss can make chat seem laggy when its not for anyone else<br /> [12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyone...someone with a very large flat inventory is a major killer when coming from OSG<br /> [12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Chat is all UDP, ain't it?<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: im not even sure<br /> [12:00] Shy Robbiani: chat looks ok to me right now<br /> [12:00] Kayaker Magic: Lunchtime here, bye.<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: I have a huge inventory<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: larger than most<br /> [12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it will generate 1000's of error messages<br /> [12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, not to be too sad about chat lag. it still happens in SL too<br /> [12:00] Shy Robbiani: bye Kayaker<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: but this is one of those wierd things<br /> [12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yours probably isn't flat though<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: where Aine and I had very similar setups<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but you had all kinds of issues I couldnt experience<br /> [12:01] Lucy Afarensis: flat?<br /> [12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lots of root level folders<br /> [12:01] Lucy Afarensis: ah...<br /> [12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: instead of a nice hierarchy<br /> [12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: More lube on your ethernet cables. That's the ticket.<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: my inventory is a complete disaster<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: im probably in the top 10 worst inventories<br /> [12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if someone enters the region with inventory wind open it has to fetch detials of those folders<br /> [12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and those throw errors to console when it's an OSG user<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I know though that Firestorm and Replex handle inventory a bit differently<br /> [12:02] Lucy Afarensis: i could compete withyou on that neb<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i never use firestorm, not ever<br /> [12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and the errors are profile-related for some weird reason<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: yea errors on console doesnt necesariily mean its the cause<br /> [12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: OSgrid's HG has been.. weird for a while now. It hasn't (and can't) use all the latest HG stuff last I knew.<br /> [12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: try the SL viewer neb. and you will change your mind<br /> [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: those errors could be a result of the actual problem<br /> [12:03] Mercalia Beck kommt in Chat-Reichweite (15.93 m).<br /> [12:03] Shy Robbiani: FS still works best for me, on both, SL and Opensim<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: which is very much more likely to be the case many times<br /> [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Singularity is my opensim viewer. FS is pure for SL<br /> [12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Remember, open grids are a anomaly, and stuff like this is the price we pay for having them.<br /> [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's definitely related to folder structure though<br /> [12:04] Mercalia Beck: well tried 2 older viewer still no map<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: well I recall there being something about Firestorm in particular<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: that was kind of nasty<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i forget now completely<br /> [12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because when an OSG visitor first opens their inventory while in a region I see the flood of errors<br /> [12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Nulll GUID folder id thingy, I think<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but firestorm did stuff other viewers did not do<br /> [12:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: Mercalia, in advanced settings, make sure the option to use web map tiles is checked<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: Aine yes<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: that is different<br /> [12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...that's the one I'm referring to<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: when you see that it is becasue someone logged into osgrid with cache clear<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and teleported before inventory<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: because of the nature of HG security<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: this is not a OSG issue<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: this will happen on ALL grids<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its just you likely get more people from OSG triggering it<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: which isnt surprising<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we do have a lot of users<br /> [12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ture<br /> [12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Too bad we can't prevent HG TPs until inventory is loaded.<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we may eventually<br /> [12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: although surprising I don't see it happening from any other grid<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we discussed it<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: but other things have to happen first<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: or we already would<br /> [12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: A &quot;please wait&quot; modal wouldn;t be the worst thing if it prevents bigger problems.<br /> [12:06] Mercalia Beck: dont see enable map tiles<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Aine it may just mean OSgrid users have the biggest inventories<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: and other grid users dont clear cache as often<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is very test kind of oriented<br /> [12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 chuckles<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: cache clearing is like daily prayer here<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: face east and clear your cache at noon<br /> [12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: lol<br /> [12:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for a &quot;very test grid&quot; you don't test a lot of core services.....<br /> [12:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: Mercalia, advanced dropdown, option is called &quot;Use web maptiles&quot; (singularity)<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: aine exactly 2 services<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: Groups and Profiles<br /> [12:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: users that clear cache much. mabye the need to increase the cache size ?<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: which are relatively new to core<br /> [12:08] Mercalia Beck: ah<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise almost everything we use is in core now<br /> [12:08] Mercalia Beck: ta<br /> [12:08] Marcus Llewellyn gently reminds people that this is an OpenSim meeting, and not an OSG town hall. :)<br /> [12:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: Mercalia, map is working now?<br /> &lt;/pre&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-10-06 2015-10-28T04:14:16Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Added video link to recording of meeting.</p> <hr /> <div><br /> == Video of Meeting ==<br /> <br /> [https://archive.org/details/OpenSimDevMeeting20151006 Internet Acrhive: OpenSimulator Developer Meeting October 6, 2015]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> <br /> == Chat Log ==<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> [11:04] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit &amp; launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br /> [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br /> [11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: now that the r/xxxxxx numbers have been removed, is there some way to easily look up a commit number to find out what it refers to?<br /> [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't have to remind nebadon about the meeting this week. :)<br /> [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Wow. Some people actually use the stairs to get up here?<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Justin uses to do the stairs a lot<br /> [11:08] Sheera Khan: just probing the physics<br /> [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br /> [11:08] vegaslon plutonian uses the stairs<br /> [11:08] Shy Robbiani: I didn't find a tp<br /> [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I did use the stairs myself my first few times.<br /> [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: You just fly up and come in via the balcony. No TP.<br /> [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oh the stairs.... it's like a vic20. it's nice but slow<br /> [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't even fly iin. I just sit immediately after TP.<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yea im usually late so no time for the stairs<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [11:09] Sheera Khan: or use the cam and sit ...<br /> [11:09] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: There have been more talks for OSCC, its definitely happening in December<br /> [11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Yay!<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: so anyone looking to help out keep an eye out for announcements<br /> [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: cool<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: nothing official has gone out yet, lots of preplanning going on<br /> [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What set of stress testing do you want to do this time to get ready?<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: will be different format this year<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: single day event<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure we are going to have a lot of time for stress tests<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: we might get in 2-3 of them<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but i suspect we wont need much tuning this year<br /> [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks nods<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it should run quite well, as good as last year<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: without much change<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it will be a smaller less complicated venue<br /> [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, a lot of tuning went from the last couple rounds of stress testingtesting<br /> [11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: The avination merge is the only concern I can think of. If OSCC grid stays with a version that predates that, it should be just as stable as last year.<br /> [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: s/went/went in/<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: time is short this year, but we didnt want to skip it<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we are cutting it down, but it will still be a full day and lots too do<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: plus plenty of time to explore things for a few weeks after<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: I will let everyone know once its official and we are asking for helpers<br /> [11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: suprissed you do OSCC this year<br /> [11:13] Marcus Llewellyn would like to be on the stream team again. :) IIf it will be streamed.<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yes it will be streamed<br /> [11:13] Shy Robbiani: great<br /> [11:14] Sheera Khan: could we set up a streaming service less filled with commercials?<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on how much funds we can raise<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: generally you have to pay for commercial free and its not cheap<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you have 100s of potential watchers too<br /> [11:15] Shy Robbiani: will the streams be recorded for later review?<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: we will archive everything<br /> [11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: What is the stream hosted on usually?<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: is the site<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its still pointing to last years stuff<br /> [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but you can see what last year was about :)<br /> [11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and something with youtube ? mabye my memory is bguu but did the not have something new ?<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: we will be looking for similar types of vollunteers as past years though<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: some builders, greeters, organizers etc..<br /> [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, youtube seems a bad idea<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to experiment more with youtube<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: whatever works best though<br /> [11:18] Chris.Weymann @grid.chris-weymann.de:8002: jup<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt youtube can handle large loads of people<br /> [11:18] Chris.Weymann @grid.chris-weymann.de:8002: and youtube livestreaming is not aviable in germany -.-<br /> [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok<br /> [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: that is good to know<br /> [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Youtube streaming is nice when it works. Frustrating when it dowsn't. It's in beta right now, and for a reason.<br /> [11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Beta or Alpha ?<br /> [11:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i see everyone using twitch now for streaming, but that probably has ads?<br /> [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm livestreaming right now. it's dependability is highly variable.<br /> [11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: twitch that's the name yes<br /> [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you can pay not to have ads<br /> [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: it is very dependant on how much funds are raised<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: in such a short time i suspect we may be dealing with ads<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you never know though<br /> [11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: UStream was problematic last year. :/<br /> [11:20] Shez Oyen: Can you choose the ads?<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think so<br /> [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you either pay to have control or use free service with no control<br /> [11:21] Sheera Khan: if the videos are on the website for later viewing that should be ok ...<br /> [11:21] Sheera Khan: I'd take a look at them later then ^^<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: generally all the services just push your archive to youtube<br /> [11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, depends where the ads are. possible not see them anyway but free betetr then nothing<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: or let you download a mp4 or something<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: rarely to the streaming services do the archivng as well<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: usually a pay for service as well<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya the archives would not have the commercials<br /> [11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Ideally, whomever does the stream will also do a local recording. That's just best, as every online service I've tried can be quirky about archiving in one way or another.<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: just the live event<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we are shooting for first week of december<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: will have more official details soon though<br /> [11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: The last week would be insane. ;)<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya<br /> [11:24] Sheera Khan: I could provide some bandwidth for the videos if needed<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: Avacon has the FCVW in February so we couldnt really push it after<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: unless we wait until like spring<br /> [11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I nstill think there's more news next year<br /> [11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I think it's kind of now or never for a 2015 OSCC<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: with the trimmed down event, and not having to build venues<br /> [11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yuo. only 3 months left :LO<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: we just reuse last years venue as much as possible<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: we should be fine<br /> [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Can't have it much later than December as it will be 2016 before long.<br /> [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year's were ver, very nice.<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a nice build<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i just upgraded linux on that server<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: should run well<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: as good as the osgrid plazas<br /> [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Which mon on it?<br /> [11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the trick is to use the right mono<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I know event plaza has been uses extensively<br /> [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: mono rather<br /> [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: and does well<br /> [11:27] vegaslon plutonian: what is everyones thoughts about restricting OsNpcCreate to not be able to create npc from a uuid of user in region by default and have to change a ini setting to make it possible again?<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I don't see a problem with that myself<br /> [11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: default i think iot's safer to not let everybody create NPC<br /> [11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: That's already the case, vegaslon. You hace to enable the OSSL that lets you copy anther's appearance.<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: would need to pose that question to the -dev email list<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: for a up / down vote<br /> [11:28] vegaslon plutonian: this is another layer to that<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: what is the benefit?<br /> [11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: There are seperate commands for copying an agent's or owner's appearance. Just disable the former.<br /> [11:28] vegaslon plutonian: it is how avination is doing it and how it is set to be in the avinationmerge branch<br /> [11:28] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: marcus: out of curiosity, what mono would be est'?<br /> [11:28] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: best<br /> [11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm the wrong person to ask, Tom. :) I've been sticking with 3.2.* on my linux boxen. I haven't kept up with the newer stuff.<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I use Mono 4 myself<br /> [11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what sort of plans are being made for the eventual general/public release of the Avination code merge as far as having various grids/regions upgrade to it?<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: mono 3.12+ is good<br /> [11:30] vegaslon plutonian: also have it restricted to any npc that has a name can not be sensored as a avatar without changing an ini setting and any named npc will have to join a npc group to have an aditional tag<br /> [11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Mono 4 does have that MS OSS stuff rolled in.<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is testing some of it already<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: any grid wanting to test it can already do so now<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch in git<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: its already public<br /> [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then it will be unable to TP to any other region that isn't running it, correct?<br /> [11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: Mono 4 works but I seem to hear little bugs and such coming up regularly enough still. 3.12+ is pretty solid and tested.<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not at the moment<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: I have it running on sisyphus here<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i just teleported here from there<br /> [11:31] snik.snoodle @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hi hun<br /> [11:31] Dani.Rose @danirose.ddns.net:9000: hi you!<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: work is still ongoing and things could change<br /> [11:31] Dani.Rose @danirose.ddns.net:9000: hehehe<br /> [11:31] Sheera Khan: and your avatar is still with you *giggles*<br /> [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so there won't be a block to being able to tp from one to the other after all?<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but if you are interested in the transiton the best thing to do is run the code and follow updates<br /> [11:32] Ubit Umarov: we can tp to and from avnmerge code<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I think there may Aine, right now there is not<br /> [11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't update to something that is going to make it impossible for people to get to me or me to get to them<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I can not say for sure at this point which way things will go<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you may not have much of a choice<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if others update and you dont<br /> [11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is why I was asking about deployment plans<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I cant speak for any grid<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I cant even speak for OSgrid<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: we only control a small portion of the regions<br /> [11:33] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: so there might be a danger of a fork then? people refusing to upgrade, spliiting the metaverse in two<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: how other grids deploy is up to them<br /> [11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I suspect so<br /> [11:34] Ubit Umarov: hmm ?<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: we wont hold back code development for any particular grid though<br /> [11:34] Ubit Umarov: why a fork ?<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the metaverse is already in like 86 peices<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: soo ya<br /> [11:34] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: :)<br /> [11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: People that fork or not upgrade. make it only harder for themself. by using old not compatible stuff<br /> [11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but currently most of the metaverse is able to move about relatively well between those islands<br /> [11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: with more bugs<br /> [11:35] Ubit Umarov: there where several changes already in past that made regions incompatible...<br /> [11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: There have been a couple break points in the past that made things a bit rough but it really wasn't that huge a problem in the end. Most everyone upgraded and life went on.<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunately its going to happen, and being that no one has control over the entire metaverse<br /> [11:35] Ubit Umarov: that may happen again, but thats no reason for forks<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: there is absolutely nothing we can do to insure there wont be some bumps<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its just technically not possible<br /> [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: these things could happen accidetilly even at this point<br /> [11:36] Ubit Umarov: a last partial one was about large regions tp limitations...<br /> [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: glossing over bugs for years does not help development<br /> [11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br /> [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone running HG enabled grids/regions and who really wants to have people be able to HG TP in/out should be paying attention to what is happening on in OS.<br /> [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It's strange. if SL break code or things with changes the nosie is not so high. If OS change code to make it more SL. The earh explode<br /> [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we are however doing a lot of testing<br /> [11:37] Ubit Umarov: a future one maybe because of new wearable types<br /> [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Andrew<br /> [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: to try to minimize the pain, the sooner you get involved in testing the less shockuing things will be come time for the hard decisions<br /> [11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Other than just not wanting to try out brand new changes, what reasons would there be for not simply upgrading in this case?<br /> [11:37] Ubit Umarov: current code made the number of wearable types a protocol restriction<br /> [11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ubit wh\at large TP limitation ?<br /> [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: fear of the unknown is silly<br /> [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: isolation<br /> [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if 90% of the metaverse can't get to you and visa versa....<br /> [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or at present, 99%<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Aine we will do whatever we can to help you transition<br /> [11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: And people who're apparantly just wholly allergic to performing upgrades chose the wrong software project.<br /> [11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br /> [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if there's a blocker of that nation<br /> [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, indeed<br /> [11:38] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: iḿ just imagining how this will pan out.. i usually follow updates, but only after a while to see if there's serious bugs that show up<br /> [11:38] Ubit Umarov: old version regions may crash if you tp thre with new wearebles types<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lets deal with problems as they arise, not try to imagine what may happen and then choose to not act because of something we assume may happen<br /> [11:38] Shez Oyen: ::cough:: Marcus<br /> [11:38] Ubit Umarov: 0.8.2 will just silently fail the tp<br /> [11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: TP Protocol bumps will smack some people in the face. But like OtakuMegane said, they'll upgrade, and life will go on.<br /> [11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: At least it's not so bad as earlier days when you logged in and wondered what/when something would break that day. :P<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no one will be a lone in their quest though<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br /> [11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: The sit reposition was a similar event. People redid builds, life went on.<br /> [11:39] Shez Oyen: Neb is the one available for download on the OSG website now the one we are testing?<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no if you want to test right now you have to pull code from git<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and compile it yourself<br /> [11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think if you always did upgrade. the smack is only a waterballoon oin worse case<br /> [11:40] Shez Oyen: lol<br /> [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it requires Robust running that version as well?<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: dev is moving to fast right now for test branch releases<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Aine, no<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is running core robust<br /> [11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: The avinantionmerge branch will perform a DB migration! Do a DB backup if you're testing it on a live region, or use a new region instead!<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya its always smart to have backups<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i would hope everyone is doing regular backups<br /> [11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: As longh as it's well-tested and functional I don't think most will have an issue with upgrading. Always some holdouts or the odd cases where someone isn't really active, their region is sorta on autopilot.<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: for important work<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: if not prepare for pain eventually :)<br /> [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: &lt;_&lt; &gt;_&gt;<br /> [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i use oar. only wish the wrong grid url on asset copuld be fixt<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it could, but it requires db mod<br /> [11:42] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: what is the timeline anyway? for the avinationmerge branch to go into master?<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: when its ready :)<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say we have a lot to do and a lot to test<br /> [11:42] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: personally, I use the metropolis version of opensim, so i'd have to wait for them to upgrade<br /> [11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, i tried it. but afraid it's on the grid side wrong too<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I would not suggest anyone who is doing anything serious try to use this branch right now<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: things may get broken, its hard to predict<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but have fun beating it up :)<br /> [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Anyone who wants a stable experience should be sticking with stable binary releases. Period.<br /> [11:43] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: of course :)<br /> [11:44] Shy Robbiani: You could give it a try on the Metropolis Test grid, Tom<br /> [11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: any idea when 0.8.2 comes ?<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: even with the pain, ultimately it is worth it<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a ton of improvements<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that far out weigh the pain<br /> [11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: the avination merge might deserve a 0.9 release, IMO.<br /> [11:45] Sheera Khan: Tom, I guess Metro admins will be fairly uick to provide an update<br /> [11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lucky. i only use plain opensim<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: OSGrid, Metro are pretty much plain opensim<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: just preconfigured to connect to those services<br /> [11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: a few modules for seasoning. ;)<br /> [11:46] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: my production servers all run the metropolis version, but on my laptop i play with the master and avination branch sometimes<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is very experimental with our releases<br /> [11:46] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: but itś mostly the configuration i want.. there's so many options, and the metro distro has all those set right :)<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: they are always the latest code<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: most grids do not and should not adhere to that<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid does it so others do not have to<br /> [11:47] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: nebadon: being pretty new but isn osgrid set up just for that?<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well originally yes<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: now it is more than that<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but we do try to be the tip of the spear so to speak<br /> [11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: Not that other grids shouldn't test master. It is awesome when they do that and provide feeback. But they will wisely keep that to a few test sims.<br /> [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how will you test the core services that OSG doesn't run?<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: yea anyone is free and encouraged to test the latest code<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I am just saying you really shouldnt rely on git master in production environment<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its risky<br /> [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (profiles, etc)<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we have other grids<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: encitra, avacon, OSCC<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: plus others will test<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant test everything :)<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: that is why its better to get involved sooner then later<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: takes out some of the sting<br /> [11:50] Shy Robbiani: the Metropolis Test grid provides nightly updates of the actual development... it's vanilla Opensim code without Metro-specific code<br /> [11:50] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: as long as the protocol doesn't change the various services are reasonably well separated<br /> [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Problem with testing master is that it still doesn't seem to catch issues until the code is used on the main grid.<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is nice because we have such a diverse group of people<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: we have most of the bases covered when it comes to testing<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we know very quickly when something breaks<br /> [11:51] Shez Oyen: lol<br /> [11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: &quot;Why can't I TP&quot; &quot;Can anyone else TP&quot; &quot;Is LBSA down? I can't TP?&quot; Etc, etc, etc. etc<br /> [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: well that and we dont upgrade the entire grid at once<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: so its not so hard to fall back<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone mentioned modules. I've been using the OpenSimBirds module in a couple of regions. The people who have seen it in use just love it.<br /> [11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: You get a pretty wide variaety of versions and configurations on OSGrid<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: an upgrade on OSgrid rarely means being locked out of the grid entirely<br /> [11:52] vegaslon plutonian: I heard that bird module leaks memory<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: vegaslon: I haven't checked. The regions get restarted daily.<br /> [11:52] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: some birds tend to leak ;-)<br /> [11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: all the codez leek memoareez.<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSiv<br /> [11:53] Shy Robbiani: lol<br /> [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, :D<br /> [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interestingly Win 10 seems to be a lot better at getting some of that back<br /> [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my regions have been using waaaaaaay less memory since I updated<br /> [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, updated from what to what?<br /> [11:54] vegaslon plutonian: well they are bound to do something besides change the coat of paint<br /> [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Win7 to Win10.....everythign else unchanged<br /> [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: oh<br /> [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: RAM use dropped by about 67%<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ah thats probably just newer .net<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: more than windows version itself<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: don't *think* my .NET version changed although perhaps it did<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but was pretty surprising<br /> [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: im sure the latest .net is extremely optimized<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: dropping from ~2 GB of RAM down to will under 1GB<br /> [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: on one sim it dropped from using just over 700MB to using about 175MB<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya there was a .net upgrade right around widows 10 release<br /> [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so was quite a shock<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but im sure the kernel helps too<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Windows 10 has been fairly good experience<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: though on my laptop there is a Windows update that will not install<br /> [11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, for me too, once I disabled most of its spying activities<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and may possibly be jamming up other updates<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: KB3093266<br /> [11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Let me guess the windows edge flash update<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: seems like the entire planet is having trouble with it<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: no<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: the Cumulitive Update<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3093266<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: many people are stuck<br /> [11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not sure if i have one stuck. it seems it fixt itself later<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried everything it wont go<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: some people are saying its better without it anyway<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: other than that Windows 10 has been good<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: as good or beter than 8.1 was<br /> [12:00] Shy Robbiani: just updated two Windows 10 boxes today without any issues<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive upgraded about 1/2 dozen laptops now<br /> [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: WIn10 certainly boots faster.<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: mine was the only one that had some trouble<br /> [12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh yes. on sssd i think 15-20 seconbds. no time to get my drinks etc.<br /> [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's including bios<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: my dads lenovo was soo slow on windows 10<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: until i patched the bios<br /> [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: even without SSD it starts faster. Takes longer sometimes to do the actual log in.<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: now its nice and fast<br /> [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: win8 where already fast<br /> [12:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: isn't that the trick with win10? they just boot up nothing, then when you log in they actually start everything<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: thats kind of been that way since Windows NT Tom<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: that was on of the big selling points of NT<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, could be. Linux is a bit like that too. A lot of user related stuff only starts after you log in.<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: they have just been refining it over the years<br /> [12:03] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew: actually, with that systemd abomination, things like your webserver won't even start until it gets a request....<br /> [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? Haven't heard that before.<br /> [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: That seems kind of stupic.<br /> [12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ealier that was what inetd was for ^^<br /> [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sounds not logic<br /> [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: -c +d<br /> [12:04] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah :)<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: my server runs systemd, i havent even noticed<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i dont go that deep though<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i imagine for someone who is set in thier ways<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its like going from windows to mac<br /> [12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and my pc is running systemd and apache as well...<br /> [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: my webserver is already running and since I only put it to sleep or hibernate it is always there when i wake it up.<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: you want to punch things<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:04] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I don't see that behaviour though<br /> [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, :)<br /> [12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that's only bug in win10. use hibernate. not sleep. it seems to assign to the wrong screen when it's awake. also soemtimes the second screen is not detected or some problem like that<br /> [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'm still not convinced of the worth of systemd. I still don't like having lost runlevels. They were also useful.<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i am running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed with new KDE Plasma 5 on my workstation<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: its really nice<br /> [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: KDE always did look pretty.<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/tumbleweed_desktop_002.png<br /> [12:07] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: xmonad all the way here :) fancy distracting window managers....<br /> [12:08] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: good luck with all the merging and stuff! i'll see if and where i can help out (w/ oscc too)<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe I will have more info about OSCC next week<br /> [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. that hour went by quickly.<br /> [12:09] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ok well if no one else needs me for anything I think I am going to get going as well, eat and work :) fun stuff<br /> &lt;/pre&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-29 2015-10-28T04:12:01Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Added link to video recording of meeting.</p> <hr /> <div><br /> == Video of Meeting ==<br /> <br /> [https://archive.org/details/OpenSimDevMeeting20150929 Internet Acrhive: OpenSimulator Developer Meeting September 29, 2015]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> <br /> == Chat Log ==<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> [11:00] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: i think that can be useful to opensim to not only to the asp.net apps... maybe that will fix all the compatibility problems related to mono but im not sure<br /> [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. My cat is calling for me. :P<br /> [11:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe<br /> [11:01] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [11:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br /> [11:02] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br /> [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I don't see nebadon online so I can't remind him about the meeting<br /> [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. I have a cat calling for me (at the worst time, as always)<br /> [11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: I nominate Shez to chair the meeting. ;)<br /> [11:03] Shez Oyen: Yer so fuunnnie<br /> [11:03] Shez Oyen: :p<br /> [11:04] vegaslon plutonian: not much of a turn out<br /> [11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: We forgot to advertise free donuts.<br /> [11:05] Shez Oyen: Hey Rich :)<br /> [11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi shez<br /> [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back.<br /> [11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Until the next feline emergency. ;)<br /> [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: vegas, it does vary from week to week<br /> [11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew<br /> [11:06] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: woo<br /> [11:06] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: exist a way to manipulate the content of a child non scripted prim with a script on the root? manipulate mean get/set data like name key... thx for the answer<br /> [11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i wish opensim did support normal fbx<br /> [11:07] Kayaker Magic: llSetLinkPrimitiveParams<br /> [11:07] Shez Oyen: There's Aine :)<br /> [11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves...sorry I'm late<br /> [11:07] Kayaker Magic: I mean llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast! never use the slow version.<br /> [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Crashed Firestorm (again)<br /> [11:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: fbx, i used that in Poser 1.0 hehe<br /> [11:08] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: not the child prim but its inventory<br /> [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: and my cat is still calling for me. Grr...<br /> [11:08] vegaslon plutonian: can not edit inventory even when in the root prim<br /> [11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: web, you mean this ? http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetPrimitiveParams#llSetLinkPrimitiveParams<br /> [11:08] Marcus Llewellyn: FBX isn't documented anywhere. It's a closed format. It's been reverse engineered with some success, but any work on that would really fall on viewer developers.<br /> [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: As I understand it, it's the viewer that parses mesh uploads.<br /> [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dae is fine to, as long we get rid of the 8 material limit<br /> [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: The 8 material limit isn't a collada limitation. It's a limitation of the LL protocol.<br /> [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd prefer a mesh format that didn't degenerate everything in to trianges.<br /> [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: triangles<br /> [11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: You'd like ngon support?<br /> [11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: while we're dreaming....one that allows double-sided faces too<br /> [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: STEP or IGES format would be nice. :)<br /> [11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: monogame uses fbx and is opensource, it has a converter<br /> [11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and user defined armatures<br /> [11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Double sided poly is a render limitation. Again... that's a viewer issue really.<br /> [11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and animation of objects<br /> [11:11] vegaslon plutonian: 8 materials already is up to 24 textures loaded at a time from one object<br /> [11:11] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: no no , for eg, rez 2 prims and link them , place a script in the root and the texture on the inventory of the child one and set the texture with script on the root all sides from the content of the child<br /> [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, being able to address the inventory of a child prim would be very nice<br /> [11:12] Hippo Finesmith: sorry im late :|<br /> [11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: although there are lots of work-arounds with llMessageLinked<br /> [11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's a nuisance<br /> [11:12] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: llSetLinkPrimitiveParams dont have the inventory types :(<br /> [11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: LSL is a nuisance. ;)<br /> [11:13] vegaslon plutonian: there is also always the trick of sending a script to the child prim to get its inventory and then having the script delete itself<br /> [11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the real time visual quality of the latest Unity 5 demo is mind-blowing<br /> [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would kill for even half that quality level<br /> [11:14] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (presses MakerBot, inputs data for quantum diamond computer...)<br /> [11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, the 8 face limit is really annoying. but then y ou still hav e the camera after that. and the avatars that are to big<br /> [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, But what level machine and graphics card do you need?<br /> [11:14] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (makerbot replicates a DeBeers mining rig )<br /> [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I gather it works on relatively low-end cards<br /> [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no idea how<br /> [11:15] vegaslon plutonian: ya they are baking alot of stuff though before the level even loads<br /> [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, I suspect that's how they're handling it<br /> [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: whataever they're doing, it's pretty astounding quality<br /> [11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: That is kind of the issue SL/OS have always had: 100% dynamic world. You can't really bake or pre-render anything<br /> [11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not at the level of a pure render, but pretty darn good<br /> [11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Aside from existing textures<br /> [11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, that's the challenge<br /> [11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I tend to think there are optimizations in it that aren't being leveraged by the viewers<br /> [11:17] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh the viewers could be improved drastically. I don't think anyone doubts that.<br /> [11:18] vegaslon plutonian: nebadon will tell you, take some of the stuff this veiwer takes and stick it in unity and it will choke<br /> [11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Takes a lot of work and you'd ultimately have to cut off some of the very old/low end when moving to newer standards.<br /> [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think SL/OS viewers are still only working with old openGL too<br /> [11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: ^<br /> [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: You would want a viewer that is meant for OS only so it doesn't have to be limited by SL compatibility<br /> [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think so too....I think there are a lot of card-side optimizations that aren't been used<br /> [11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: LL kept the viewers compatible with some very old tech. The tradeoff is perfomance and features in the rendering.<br /> [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: They added some OpenGl 3.* support a while back, prolly around the mesh alha/beta. But likely they only did as much as they absolutely had to.<br /> [11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: AM curious what imprudence people are going todo in SL , when UDP is gone.<br /> [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'd also dearly love to be able to use the occasional texture &gt;1024 resolution<br /> [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: It's possible to do that, Aine.<br /> [11:19] vegaslon plutonian: they did cut off some compatablity when they released veiwer 2, had to get a new cpu<br /> [11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but of course allowing that will tend to lead people to use *all* higher rez textures<br /> [11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Larger textures wouldn't be hard. The viewer can aactually handle them already, you just can't upload or work with them properly<br /> [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think only allow &gt;1024 for UV maps would be usefull. but i hate uv-maps<br /> [11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is that a viewer-side or sim-side thing?<br /> [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: But the size is getting hugh otaku<br /> [11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: You can't upload them with the viewer, no. But they can be uploaded with other tools.<br /> [11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Some of the crashers in SL are simply very large textures that overload the viewer.<br /> [11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Kind of like the old hueg.jpg<br /> [11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so the field size in the databse isn't limited?<br /> [11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i found the any key ! [[http://core0.staticworld.net/images/idge/imported/imageapi/2014/10/08/19/slide_das-620x468-100508631-orig.jpg]]<br /> [11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: I've uploaded textures up to 4096 in size, just as an experiment. They work fine.<br /> [11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interesting<br /> [11:22] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: file size?<br /> [11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how did you upload them?<br /> [11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I even have one or two 2048's on one of my regions. Mesh builds that could make efficient use of that resolution.<br /> [11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, not with sl viewer<br /> [11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: The viewers just aren't made to allow it by default. It's an arbitrary limitation as far as I know, though.<br /> [11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: Just like the 10 second sound limit<br /> [11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I used the image uploader that comes with libomv. It requires that you edit the code to allow a larger size. It's a trivial change.<br /> [11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...so something I lack the necessary skills to do<br /> [11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: too bad<br /> [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Like the old viewer limit on prim size<br /> [11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, until LL put the limit server side too. ;)<br /> [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br /> [11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Of course, LL maanged to bug things up every so often and the megaprim sets were created in that window<br /> [11:25] Hippo Finesmith: hey vegaslon mind if i pm you after the meeting?<br /> [11:25] vegaslon plutonian: sure<br /> [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: on the subject of textures....is there any particular reason that sizing is forced to ^2?<br /> [11:25] Hippo Finesmith: thanks<br /> [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: something related to efficiency?<br /> [11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't know for sure, but I presume that's a limitation of the j2K library the viewer uses.<br /> [11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: I think it's something with OpenGL? I read once the explanation but forgot now<br /> [11:26] Oliver Grashnar: about the comments regarding unity wouldnt google nacl be a better option (less restrictive) and how they made unity anyway ?<br /> [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: It is *very* annoying to me that I can't use 386 or 768 textures.<br /> [11:26] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, graphics cards require 2^ sizes, maybe not newer ones tho<br /> [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ah<br /> [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Especially for things like the OSSL dynamic texure functions.<br /> [11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm...<br /> [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's just sooooooo many commericial textures I use are 600x600, 800x800 or 900x900<br /> [11:26] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: 2^ fits with memory sizes, 128, 256 etc<br /> [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it's a PITA to have to scale them before upload<br /> [11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: Ok, it is/was a graphics card/driver limitation. Apparently newer ones can handle a wider range of sizes and I should think even non-compliant sizes could be scaled before getting shunted to the card anyway.<br /> [11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: particularly with seamless since the scaling doesn't *always* result in a seamless tile<br /> [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Could just be another arbitrary limitation or something imposed by the graphics cards<br /> [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: or viewers<br /> [11:29] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: no andrew, its because at hardware level most things memory, buses etc work in powers of 2<br /> [11:30] OtakuMegane Desu: From what I'm gathering it was a technical limitation/performance issue but isn't always now unless you're using old engines or want to retain compatibility.<br /> [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: An limitation to optimize things for old hardware then. Not needed these days.<br /> [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess I'm wondering if seemingly arbitrary limitations like that are ones that could be disabled/ignored in Opensim much as prim sizing was<br /> [11:31] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: got this problem and fix it with a directX update... not related to opensim - old nvidia GF7600GS<br /> [11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: The texture ^2 thing might be more problematic but things like prim size, texture size and sound length are entirely arbitrary. A bit of code tweaking would remove them.<br /> [11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: Power of 2 isn't gonna go away... that's permanent. But it could be finer grained. Right now we have limits at 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024. But there are other possible sizes that satisfy ^2, like 768.<br /> [11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: code tweaking of the viewer or of Opensim? (or both?)<br /> [11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: The viewer<br /> [11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I can only guess the viewers haven't removed that because of SL rules or something.<br /> [11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...ty<br /> [11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: That's all viewer. OpenSim could give a rats patootie about the resolution of an image asset.<br /> [11:33] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: openJPEG too is an old version...<br /> [11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I know LL chose the 10 second sound limit for example for legal reasons involving fair use.<br /> [11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume many also related to reasonable expectations of bandwidth available....based on internet technology 15 years ago<br /> [11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: When it comes to audio assets, we do need support for longer ones. We also need support for OGM/MP3/ACC. A PCM WAV in 2015 is just obscene.<br /> [11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: Texture size would probably be a case of that.<br /> [11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or user hardware....of 15 years go<br /> [11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Much older GPUs could actually choke on large textures.<br /> [11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Seems there still people that use imprudence. so old hardware.. uhmm<br /> [11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Especially if you had numerous ones at once<br /> [11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> [11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: imprudence doesnt support mesh does it?<br /> [11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: BUt that was like P4 days<br /> [11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in the end though, it would be nice if that was a region designer's choice<br /> [11:36] vegaslon plutonian: the way we use sounds in opensim mono audio makes sense<br /> [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think GPU memory is a problem. still valid and big textures trigger texture trashing faster<br /> [11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you want to make a sim that kills people with older hardware that's a design choice<br /> [11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Imp does not do mesh. It doesn't so a lot of things at this point.<br /> [11:36] Oliver Grashnar: what about those with phones/tablets and like lumiya viewer ?<br /> [11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, a big enough texture will still cause issues but something like 2048 x 2048 should be fine. It's uncommon to come across images much larger than that anyway.<br /> [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: throw it away and use good harder :P<br /> [11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hardware<br /> [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 4000x4000 and 4096x4096 are quite common in mapped stuff<br /> [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then it's 1 texture coving a whole larger mesh<br /> [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: 2048 is really suitable for things like texture atlases, where you have a multiple UV maps for multiple objectsmaterials baked to a single image.<br /> [11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Even that should be fine now, though haveing a lot of them would probably drag down low-end hardware<br /> [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but again, let it be a design decision rather than an enforced limit<br /> [11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br /> [11:38] Oliver Grashnar: +2<br /> [11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: +1<br /> [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my own home (personal) region would destroy someone with low end graphics card<br /> [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I don't care since I'm the only one using it<br /> [11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: Prim size can be limited server-side in OS if region owners have issues with that and SL does too so there's 0 reason to still have a viewer lock. That's one thing.<br /> [11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: better woudl be if the viewer rescale it depends on hardware. but then you see something bad mabye<br /> [11:40] Oliver Grashnar: hey best of both worlds why not offer the viewer a low res option via ffmpeg that way maintaining backward support ?<br /> [11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Newer viewers do support texture compression.<br /> [11:40] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (thinks hard limits are a business decision to enforce useablility by the general public at the expense of gamer rigs)<br /> [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of limits in viewers are inherited from SL since most use the SL viewer code as a base.<br /> [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the SL viewers are not optimized at all, i have good hardware. but shadows on .. no preferrable not.because frameratddrops and things get less smooth.<br /> [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: There are very real practical reasons to limit texxture sizes. Personally, I'd prefer that the limit was removed from viewers, but enforced server side.<br /> [11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, I look at it as a case of if I decide to go insane in a region I'm building and the result is people with lower end cards will have a terrible visit, that's my problem....<br /> [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: There could be an INI setting like maxtexturesize = 1024<br /> [11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I make it horrid for too many people they won't recommend it or visit again<br /> [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs if I make it okay for enough people, that's fine<br /> [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I can live with &quot;excluding&quot; the bottom end<br /> [11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if a viewer limit is left on textures 1024 is holdover from long ago. 2048 or 4096 could be done easily now. And if people really want to use larger textures, there are other ways to get them uploaded anyway<br /> [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone pointed out the other day about abuse of texture sizes. Use of a 512x512 texture on a tiny button on a piece of clothing.<br /> [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: much as anyone who builds with mesh right now is excluding poeple with non-mesh viewers<br /> [11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: It also doesn't help if people crank their viewrs to ultra when their hardware can't handle it. That's the user's fault, to put it bluntly.<br /> [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: If your hardqare can't handle a ton of point lights then don't enable that feature, for the love of pete.<br /> [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't know how many of you may remember the initial release of Oblivioin (the game) but it was a beast for its time<br /> [11:43] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: Oliver Grahnar, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaikai<br /> [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i suggest, we all start to use Real scaled avatars and buildings. that way you can use smaller textures. and then 1024 is enough<br /> [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and it looks better too<br /> [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but within 12 months of release just about every game on the market used that level of graphics quality<br /> [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and actually the same was true of Baldur's Gate when it first came out<br /> [11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: Honestly, a 512 is fine for *most* of what we do in here. There's just the freedom to zoom the camera right up to an object, and that is when it looks like crap.<br /> [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and NWN<br /> [11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: In games, a user can't generally do that.<br /> [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for clothing sure<br /> [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if you're making a structure that's 40m x 60m from mesh and want to UV-map it to a single texture.....<br /> [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *shudders*<br /> [11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, a 512 won't do it there. ;)<br /> [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or make a single mesh to cover a 256x256 region with a custom single baked texture<br /> [11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: But there are still uses for a 512 in that use case, where materials are concerned.<br /> [11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: A lot of texture size just involves the size of what you're putting it on. If you have an object that's only going to be a couple meters in size, you don't need 1024. You'll only notice a difference if you zoom in really close.<br /> [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br /> [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you end up mapping it to take tiled textures<br /> [11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: Where you might use a 1034 for the diffuse, a 512 or even 256 might be plenty for normal and specular mapping.<br /> [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then have 50 materials<br /> [11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: I will purposely scale down textures if I'm only using it for a small object.<br /> [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then you end up using 50 512x512 textures which defeats the purpose of the original limit<br /> [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do too<br /> [11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: That's where texture atlases come in. ;)<br /> [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have a full set of 8x8 specular maps for generic use<br /> [11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway....not something that we can do anything about if those are all enforced by the viewer<br /> [11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: neb is clearly soooo fired. ;)<br /> [11:48] Shez Oyen: lol<br /> [11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br /> [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br /> [11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: He's prolly really still involved with his Encitra work.<br /> [11:49] Oliver Grashnar: if anyones available after the meeting i could use a little help with some connectivity issues unrelated to the meeting<br /> [11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: Either that or out getting a gas station microwave cheeseburger<br /> [11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: WHat connection problems ?<br /> [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: ewww<br /> [11:49] OtakuMegane Desu: Removing or altering these limits is something to keep in mind as we get some OS-focused viewer work done. Unless someone manages to get patches in on the existing viewers or convinces their devs to do it, we'll just have to wait a while longer.<br /> [11:50] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: what do you think about the export permission ? have a chance to be ported to the core ? is this a good/bad thing...<br /> [11:50] Oliver Grashnar: richardus can connect locally not remotely stuck on waiting for region capabilities try 3 then timeout<br /> [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Export is in core. It's just not really documented.<br /> [11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Depends how much problems the export function create<br /> [11:51] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: there is a war on google+ for this hihi...<br /> [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen an export option in the ini files but I'm not sure what it is really controlling.<br /> [11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as it's opt-in I can live with it even though it strikes me as defeating the purpose of an *open* simulator<br /> [11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: There is a lot of confusion concerning what the export perm is, what it does, and how it works. It's compounded by the fact that Kitely has it's own implementation of an export perm, which is not the same as the one in OpenSim.<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, opensim is being used to make closed grids. :)<br /> [11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I know<br /> [11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: The open is open-source as in the code. What anyone does with it is their business.<br /> [11:52] Oliver Grashnar: why not change the licenece to stop closed grids?<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: yup<br /> [11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: Open grids like Osgris are an anomaly, not a normal configuration.<br /> [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: There are lots of HG enabled grids running OS<br /> [11:53] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: i belive on a real P2P metaverse but also the creators have to protect them works...<br /> [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one thing I would *really* like to see fixed is the setting to disallow direct HG login (HGTP) to a region<br /> [11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: There is no FOSS approved license that would stop closed grids. You're in vanity license territory at that point, and that's a terrible idea.<br /> [11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oliver Grashnar did you used your external ip or you mabye have router loopback problem.<br /> [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's there but broken<br /> [11:54] OtakuMegane Desu: One, software licenses are almost impossible to change on a larger scale project like this. Everyone involved has to agree. Second, closed grids and private codebases aren't intended to be limited.<br /> [11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, that's already implemented to only HG to send them to welcome<br /> [11:54] Oliver Grashnar: richardus yes external ip as i understand it if you have loopback issue it stops connection locally... i can make account for you to see if you like ?<br /> [11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh<br /> [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, it doesn't work<br /> [11:54] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: why should i care if someone wants to close a grid?<br /> [11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oliver, it's hard problem to fix. mabye someone else knows something i forgot<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have my Hedonism cklub set to disallow HG entry directly and it doesn't stop anyone from tping there<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only way to enforce HG entry is to do it grid-wide<br /> [11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: You're clearly hiring the wrong bouncers. ;)<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nopes<br /> [11:55] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: estates should be an easy way to limit access<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: try it sometime<br /> [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: If closed grids were prohibited you'd actually lose some of the development. Some people do have money invested in this but contribute for the greter good as well.<br /> [11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, did you set the fallback and othe setting correct in robust ? otherwise it's not working<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's all set correctly<br /> [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I reported it months ago in Mantis<br /> [11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Pester diva. The HG Goddess. :)<br /> [11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: SL/OS is getting to many problems, wrong camera angle, wrong avatar/build size, no good mesh support, a pile of bugs., and am sure i forgot a pile of thgings<br /> [11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: Although at the moment she's prolly even busier than neb is.<br /> [11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess the problem is it's way more fun to write new bugs than to fix old ones<br /> [11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and the viewers still have problems with UI scaling and cxursor position.<br /> [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, camera spins around when you are zoomed in to an object<br /> [11:58] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: oh the oscillations<br /> [11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: Right now, everything is in a sort of holding pattern waiting on the avinationmerge branch, anyway.<br /> [11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew ? oh not know that one<br /> [11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: A lot of that is viewer stuff and it comes about because all the major viewers are still SL-focused. That's the big audience. They're just nice enough to include OS support.<br /> [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br /> [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, rotate the camera to see something &quot;right side up&quot; that is on the ground and then you select a piece of it, or select it for edit and the camera rotates back to some &quot;normal&quot; viewing direction.<br /> [11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: OnLook is being worked on for an OS-focus but there's not much else going on.<br /> [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: It was fixed in some specific viewers.<br /> [12:00] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: isnt any old game engine a viewer?<br /> [12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm not even sure what to do with some of the bugs I've reported since they've celebrated 1 or even 2 brithdays<br /> [12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Never seen that problem<br /> [12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume nobody actually goes and looks at Mantis reports that old<br /> [12:01] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: seems to be if we want more viewers just throw some gamer clients to an opensim server and see what happens<br /> [12:01] OtakuMegane Desu: It hasn't been entirely helped that OS has long kept in step with SL and is only now beginning to genuinely break off onto its own path.<br /> [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, depends what viewer you use. I see it often.<br /> [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Singularity for opensim<br /> [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, bake them a cake? ;)<br /> [12:01] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bit if I bake them they'd be limited to 1024x1024 reports :p<br /> [12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: A &quot;viewer&quot;, as defined for our purposes, is more than just a renderer or game engine. It needs to be able to render (and edit!) prims, which is a whole seperate ballgame.<br /> [12:02] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: yep<br /> [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: AIne, I never worry about the age of bugs unless a bug got fixed and the report wasn't closed, or the bug can no longer be reproduced.<br /> [12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...but what are the chances of it ever being looked at an addressed?<br /> [12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, u&quot;unable to rezz cake&quot;<br /> [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: little yellow triangle cakes<br /> [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, the usual problem is having someone with the interest to fix the problem and the knowledge of the code base in order to make the needed changes.<br /> [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> [12:03] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (rezzes cupcake and eats it)<br /> [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: don't type to fast for the microphone<br /> [12:04] OtakuMegane Desu: Viewers are pretty much coded in C++ which is not a simple or entirely pleasant beast to deal with.<br /> [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm watching a lot of mantis reports but I may not be able to do much about some of them.<br /> [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, what button you did press :O<br /> [12:04] OtakuMegane Desu: And people who know how to work with it are definitely fewer than for say Java or c#<br /> [12:05] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: convert it to javascript :) exist a variant of javascript bullet engine<br /> [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: You see people asking for experience in C++ more than for C these days, or just usually lumped together as C/C++.<br /> [12:05] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: i have a c++ compiler, it knows what to do, or tells me the errors :P<br /> [12:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Well obviously more than C, but C++ vs Java or C# the latter are seen much more often now<br /> [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, what button?<br /> [12:06] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (or possibility of using a prototype system like python or other opengl frameworks to make clients)<br /> [12:07] OtakuMegane Desu: C++ is good for working at very low-level stuff though, like drivers and even direct hardware access, things which are difficult or sometimes impsosible for higher-level languages.<br /> [12:07] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: c# was suppose to be a java killer<br /> [12:07] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: javascript/webGL<br /> [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: The hour has come and gone. Time to start wrapping things up unless has something else they to discuss this week.<br /> [12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: your mic where short open<br /> [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: odd. No sign of the mic being open at my end.<br /> [12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nopes, I need to go pretend to be productive so I'm off.....have a great week everyone<br /> [12:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: Web.Rain the wonderful world of shader languages<br /> [12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves and *poofs*<br /> [12:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: tc Aine.<br /> [12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: now it's open again<br /> [12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, we've had some good user conversation, but I thing the dev meeting is not gonna happen at this point. ;)<br /> [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, its doing it on its own it seems.<br /> [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, I think that will wrap it up for this weeks meeting. Good seeing everyone. See you again next week.<br /> [12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, just let you know. that's why i do not trust build in microphones<br /> [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Richarus, perhaps its fingeritis and I'm triggering some keyboard shortcut I don't know about.<br /> [12:10] Oliver Grashnar: so anyone able to help me out with this connection issue ?<br /> [12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: there's a shortcut ? :O<br /> [12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: please give a try to this<br /> [12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: http://dotnet.github.io/core/<br /> [12:10] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (obessing about viewers seems kind of odd, as a server should know nothing about them until one opens a channel of communication -_-)<br /> [12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: and report next week :) thanks<br /> [12:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im going to get going, bye all :)<br /> [12:11] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: tc Alicia<br /> [12:11] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: for linux users<br /> [12:11] lavender -pretty: hello pc<br /> [12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: So, are we ready to stick a fork in this meeting? :)<br /> [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I think that's what I was already suggesting.<br /> [12:11] Marcus Llewellyn nods.<br /> &lt;/pre&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-22 2015-10-28T04:10:29Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Added link to viedo recording of the meeting.</p> <hr /> <div><br /> == Video of Meeting ==<br /> <br /> [https://archive.org/details/OpenSimDevMeeting20150922 Internet Acrhive: OpenSimulator Developer Meeting September 22, 2015]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> <br /> == Chat Log ==<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm checking to see if nebadon is coming soon.<br /> [11:03] Kayaker Magic: Does anyone from Moses come to these meetings regularly?<br /> [11:04] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br /> [11:04] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Not remotely regulrly, no.<br /> [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Not that I know of but I'm not sure what avatar names they use.<br /> [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Less likely to be here now that they have forked OS.<br /> [11:04] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: thought i read they decided to distance themselves from core intentionally<br /> [11:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: they seem to feel there wasnt enough colaboration?<br /> [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: something like that.<br /> [11:05] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit &amp; launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..<br /> [11:05] Kayaker Magic: I wondered if they saw the code donation of a Physx engine from InWorldz<br /> [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Good question.<br /> [11:05] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: perhaps for their purposes they need something different in the structure of the software<br /> [11:05] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: They need to make large, rapid changes, and core's submission process was too slow for them. That's mostly what it comes down to.<br /> [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello<br /> [11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Core isn't the easiest part to get in with new stuff. :P<br /> [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Part of the problem is having people who can review their changes.<br /> [11:06] Kayaker Magic: InWorldz has been donating several things lately, not directly back here...<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: its unlikely we could easily port anything from InWorldz<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: they forked off a very long time ago<br /> [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: in like 0.5 era<br /> [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. that's a long time ago.<br /> [11:07] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Imworldz has some code up on Github. There's some very real questions about whether or not they've got all their licensing ducks in a row.<br /> [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: very long time ago<br /> [11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how much truth is there to the information spreading around G+ about a major commit that will break the ability to TP to a region that hasn't been updated to that version or later?<br /> [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: at some point that will happen Aine, as of right this moment that is not true<br /> [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: to fix attachments<br /> [11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: something to do with wearables wasnt it?<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: there is a bug at the moment<br /> [11:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: crashes the originating region<br /> [11:08] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Just one bug? Hooray!<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: well thats what happens if we dont force upgrade<br /> [11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: Hard breaking lines like that are avoided as much as possible but they have occurred before.<br /> [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: um... I thought it was that it crashes the destination if it is on older code.<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats not the reason it changed though<br /> [11:08] PcTek CyberStar: we will find out who is responsible and send someone from la familia to take care of it.<br /> [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know the exact results<br /> [11:09] Unknown UserUMMAU42: Hello, can someone help Me, on the funsionamiento of grounds, try to open the mine and can not enter<br /> [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: at the moment there is widespread panic out there so if that isn't an imminent change it might be worth having a dev say so publicly<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: but it can lead to crashing<br /> [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: much panic<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: it will likely come with the next release<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: as of right now the code isnt finished yet<br /> [11:09] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: It will also be backported a bit if I recall.<br /> [11:09] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: it isnt the first time with incompatibility between versions for HG<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes 0.8.1PF will be ok<br /> [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: anything before that will not<br /> [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Could the panic be a good thing if it means the word is spreading faster and people will be more likely to upgrade quicker?<br /> [11:09] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if it doesn't come this time, something eventually will be big enough to force updating. It's just how things go at this stage of development.<br /> [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I would saym, finaly rid of the 0.7 versions. but people are worried about the upgrade happins in a busy event time. and break things<br /> [11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes...but if it's going to be something major like that it ought to get a lot of advanced, highly public notice<br /> [11:10] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: it was nice to see work being done on ode and vars<br /> [11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so people will know about it and be prepared (as best possible) for it<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: well this whole thing is a really big change<br /> [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: thats just 1 piece of many<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but until we have the whole picutre<br /> [11:11] OtakuMegane Desu: Usually it is announced well beforehand in my experience but it seems like someone picked up early and decided to run around with rumors.<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: we cant really say much that already hasnt been said<br /> [11:11] OtakuMegane Desu: Instead of waiting<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: smaxy was going to post some stuff around<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: well we talked about getting the word out on IRC<br /> [11:11] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: he did<br /> [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: mostly just getting people ready for when it eventually does happen<br /> [11:11] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Things like this are gonna happen. They *have* to happen for OpenSim to continue to grow. A changing peice of software is what everyone has signed on for, whether they like it for not.<br /> [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: yup<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you are getting very early warning at this point<br /> [11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: just that there is now much more focus on HG then there was in past<br /> [11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: are mega's going to be removed too ? or just delay the renmove 1 version ?<br /> [11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: used to be hardly anytone would notice hg incompatibility<br /> [11:12] OtakuMegane Desu: There's a much larger base of OS users now than in the past too. And people are starting to do big stuff with it.<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: megas will likely be removed in 2 releases from now<br /> [11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: IRC is a very bad way to reach people if you want to get to the masses since most (myself included) can't spend 24/7 on IRC<br /> [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: not next release<br /> [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: has ode been fixed for Vars<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: needs more testing Arielle<br /> [11:13] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: ODE does not work on Vars.<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but its getting there<br /> [11:13] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: not == now<br /> [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ubODE does<br /> [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: cool<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its in Avinationmerge brange<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: there will be another ODE in the future<br /> [11:13] Ubit Umarov: ode should also work now on master<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: called ubODE<br /> [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: how is that going?<br /> [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: that merge?<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok Ubit cool<br /> [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: didnt realize it was in master<br /> [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, going to be a long process.<br /> [11:14] OtakuMegane Desu: So an updated ODE?<br /> [11:14] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: I've been running a region on the avainationmerge branch for a while now. I haven't had any problems to speak of<br /> [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea I have Sisyphus running on avinationmerge but still using bUlletsim<br /> [11:14] Ubit Umarov: yeap ubODE is a evolution of old ode plugin<br /> [11:14] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: avination doesnt have hg right?<br /> [11:14] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: This new ODE will have different behavior, much like Bullet did from the old ODE. People with scripts that depend on specific physics behavior will need to proceed with that in mind.<br /> [11:15] Ubit Umarov: yes.. vehicles will behave diferently from ode<br /> [11:16] Ubit Umarov: ( and a few more things but mostly vehicles )<br /> [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, The grid doesn't, AFAIK. It is a closed grid.<br /> [11:16] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: HG sorta works, Arielle. At least the basic. I haven't tested that much.<br /> [11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Cool. Variety is good, though I don't have reason to switch off of Bullet personally.<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: the avination code base has no idea about hypergrid really<br /> [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Ubit is merging all that in<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: with som help<br /> [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: just wondered if their code is fully compatible HG wise<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it will be<br /> [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it currently isnt 100%<br /> [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: ok<br /> [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me just say we cant certify its 100% yet<br /> [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: One person is working their way through the code looking for any regressions.<br /> [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: most stuff works I think<br /> [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: needs more testin<br /> [11:17] Ubit Umarov: it will be fixed<br /> [11:17] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: also some talk in G+ groups about server side export flag support<br /> [11:17] Ubit Umarov: well it it isn't already :)<br /> [11:17] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: didnt avi have that ?<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: I think that export flag requires viewer to support it?<br /> [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know honestly<br /> [11:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes which it does<br /> [11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: I would imagine so<br /> [11:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: sing and fs<br /> [11:18] Ubit Umarov: avn doesnt use hg, but code was there.<br /> [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: FS have it ? other OS viewers have it ?<br /> [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I seem to remember running across an export setting in the ini files but I haven't looked at what exactly it does<br /> [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i only know singularity with export<br /> [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: i thought Mel had put a hidden switch in for it<br /> [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: in regular opensim<br /> [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: server side<br /> [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: but my memory might be bad<br /> [11:19] Kayaker Magic: FS has export in the dialogs<br /> [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: There are two export situations. Exporting something from a grid to a local HD, and exporting items to another grid after an HG TP.<br /> [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: And what about OAR ?<br /> [11:20] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Melanie and Sianna were behind the export permission in some viewers, IIRC. But becuase it's not universally supported, and there's different implemenations like Kitely's, there's been more that a little confusion.<br /> [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Not sure which (if either) is covered by the flag I saw.<br /> [11:20] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: exactly Marcus<br /> [11:20] Kayaker Magic: FS has checkboxes in the build dialog for the HG TP export<br /> [11:20] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i had thought export flag wasnt finished, but im pretty sure melanie said it should work if enabled, its just not documented<br /> [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe, yea... like most of OS.<br /> [11:20] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes i thought so too Alicia<br /> [11:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: is a funding effort to reinvent that wheel<br /> [11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: export flag seems like it wont be much use as only full perm items can be set to export<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think its a bit to early for that stuff I knwo its in the works<br /> [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: I would not expect it for next release though<br /> [11:21] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: I've felt that export perm was a misnomer, personally. It's more of a public domain flag.<br /> [11:22] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Which isn't a bad thing to have.<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I know melanie has some papers she is writing that will be made public soon<br /> [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: that will cover some of this stuff<br /> [11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: well some commercial creators would like better protection for hg sales<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: HG in general needs improving<br /> [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: but freebie people are afraid that the default setting will prohibit export for currently exportable freebies<br /> [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: everyone is still quite in the Second Life mindset<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that has to change<br /> [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: and will change<br /> [11:23] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Amen.<br /> [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: no<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: it wont go away<br /> [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod i mean :)<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: but things need to expand<br /> [11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: especialy contenmt creators need to change there mind of how things need to be sold.<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: SL is a small bubble<br /> [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: in a sea of bubbles<br /> [11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: And one that's going stagnant at that<br /> [11:24] Kayaker Magic: Kitely has something nicely inbetween SL and OS as far as protection of creator rights goes.<br /> [11:24] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: And a straight jacket. If we stay in it, we die.<br /> [11:24] Kayaker Magic: I assumed Export was going to be like what Kitely does<br /> [11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I hope that at least anything that doesn't currently have flag set will, by default, be &quot;converted&quot; to have it set<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think its a bit to premature to say how its is going to work on that level<br /> [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: its a fluid situation<br /> [11:26] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: The safe, legal thing to do is to presume that a permission has *not* been granted. &quot;All Rights Reserved&quot; and all that, unless a content creator says otherwise.<br /> [11:26] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: If they haven't said otherwise, you can't assume they might.<br /> [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes but creators no longer in Opensim would not be setting their stuff exportable<br /> [11:27] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: so we lose a lot of frebie content which is currently exportable<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats unlikely to occur<br /> [11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oar ?<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: no one is out to lock down existing content<br /> [11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you cannot move stuff export disabled by oar. don't implement it !<br /> [11:27] Whaka Akahw: hi :)<br /> [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its about giving creators the option to if they want to<br /> [11:27] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: And that would suck. But setting export by default on items that didn't use to have it leave one open to lawsuits. Welcome to copyright.<br /> [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so everything currently in my inventory will instantly become non-exportable and I'll need to go and manually set the export flag on every single item I own?<br /> [11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I pity the people with more than a few hundred items in their inventory if that happens<br /> [11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: can be fun with scipts inside objects<br /> [11:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: lot of content from creators who are no longer here<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: Aine no, its unlikely anything in your inventory would change<br /> [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it would be stuff in simulators and new stuff you take<br /> [11:28] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Copyrights are held by the otem creator. Unless *they* can *say* what the perms are, nobody can add extra rights to it. Not you, not a grid, not a group of devs.<br /> [11:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: unless the flag is set by date of creation perhaps<br /> [11:29] Kayaker Magic: But right now all those items are export by default, the new feature is the ability to disable that.<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: yea that would make the most sense<br /> [11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: upset people with own grid and sql knwoledge ...<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: you have to opt in to no export<br /> [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: and nothing as it is changes<br /> [11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: yes Neb, that would be ideal<br /> [11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I certainly hope that's the way it's implemented<br /> [11:30] PcTek CyberStar: many grids have completely stopped exporting of anything at all<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: I imagine it is nothing is set in stone<br /> [11:30] PcTek CyberStar: not just secondLife<br /> [11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: full perm meaning it is exportable under current setup<br /> [11:30] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Full perm != public domain. Full perms does *not* mean you've been given all rights over something.<br /> [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: realistically though, if something can leave your sim and a person has access to the console / database<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: there is nothing we can do to protect it<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and look at SL<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no one has access to the back end in SL<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and content theft is rampant<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: so while its good to tighten things up<br /> [11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: I think most creators are more worried about people using viewer export than region owners running an oar or something.<br /> [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: none of this is a unbreakable vault<br /> [11:31] PcTek CyberStar: i think a grid started from the ground up with only freebies<br /> [11:32] PcTek CyberStar: and everything is public domain<br /> [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: unenforceable<br /> [11:32] PcTek CyberStar: would put a stop to a lot of these retarded law suits over trivial crap<br /> [11:32] PcTek CyberStar: it's a video game<br /> [11:32] PcTek CyberStar: who cares if you made a brown board textures<br /> [11:32] PcTek CyberStar: in a video game<br /> [11:32] PcTek CyberStar: people that file law suits like that make more money off the suit than they ever would off a texture<br /> [11:33] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: The creator of the texture may care, and has very real legal rights over it.<br /> [11:33] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: nod<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya my only point was that no one has ever designed DRM you couldnt circumvent<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: but if we can make people feel warm and cozy we should<br /> [11:33] PcTek CyberStar: what about putting out a legal notice on he grid...<br /> [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: legal notice is only as good as your legal teams ability to enforce such notices<br /> [11:33] PcTek CyberStar: everything on this grid is public domain, if you dont want it to be, get it off our grid<br /> [11:33] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: You can pay for the lawyer. ;)<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: going to court costs money<br /> [11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: It's mostly meant to block the &quot;casual&quot; theft. Like locking your door. It won't stop a pro no matter how many locks you do. But it'll keep honest people honest.<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: even if you are the plaintiff and correct<br /> [11:34] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: If Osgrid were taken to court over... well, anything really, it'd be dead. Just... dead. Kaput. Roadkill.<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but its good to cover our bases, I am all for making things easier for export<br /> [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: people just need to realize it wont do anything to stop content theft<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it will simply make things a little easier to manage<br /> [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: which is a good thing<br /> [11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: If you hear the noise sometimes in SL. hmm. not sure if people understand it<br /> [11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: many (most?) don't<br /> [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: well i mean look there are many examples of it out there<br /> [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: Sony spent a huge some of money developing encryption for Bluray<br /> [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: was 100s of millions<br /> [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: some 15 year old kid cracked it in like 3 days<br /> [11:37] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: lol<br /> [11:37] PcTek CyberStar: sony should hire him<br /> [11:37] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: really ;)<br /> [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: more likely NSA hired him<br /> [11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: The problem is things encrypted have to be able to get unencrypted by consumer-level tech. SO there's only so much they can layer on.<br /> [11:38] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: if it can be displayed it can be copied<br /> [11:38] PcTek CyberStar: one of the major problems we are facing right now<br /> [11:38] PcTek CyberStar: is grids not getting back online<br /> [11:38] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Encryption and DRM are a bit off the conversation path of permissions, honestly. Becuase permissions are all we have, and all we will have for the foreseeable future.<br /> [11:38] PcTek CyberStar: because of that j2kmodule error<br /> [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: PcTek? this is news to me<br /> [11:39] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: the only way to protect a grid from thieves is closing the grid and using a system like canopy... and it will cost a lot<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: what error? is there a mantis?<br /> [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: j2kmodule hasnt changed in years<br /> [11:39] PcTek CyberStar: Whaka did you make a mantis for that error?<br /> [11:39] PcTek CyberStar: oh there is whaka<br /> [11:39] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: j2kmodule is prone to giving off warnings from time to time. I haven't seen an error in.... aeons.<br /> [11:39] Whaka Akahw: hm, no, i don't really know how to do that<br /> [11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. I forget when it was even last mentioned<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: need to file a bug report<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: include as much detail and logs etc.. as you can<br /> [11:40] Whaka Akahw: (can i past someone here the crash i get ?)<br /> [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: just a guess without seeing anything<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its more likely somthing with your environment<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: than opensim itself<br /> [11:41] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: without looking, I'm wondering if it's missing dependencies.<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ive never heard anyone mention this problem before<br /> [11:41] PcTek CyberStar: [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Agent.TextureSender.J2KDecoderModule' from assembly 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules, Version=0.8.2.10663, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.<br /> [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: what version of mono?<br /> [11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Looking at the errors listed in mantis J2K is spitting them out but it sounds like J2K isn't necessarily the problem. It's just not finding something<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hmm i wonder if its Kernel 3.16<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: and newer mono issue<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: that I ran into<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: im stuck on opensuse 13.1<br /> [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: because newer kernel crashes mono<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: randomly<br /> [11:43] PcTek CyberStar: what's it mean when it says could not load type<br /> [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's why i stopped using linux. so many problems<br /> [11:43] PcTek CyberStar: fatal unhandled exception<br /> [11:43] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: isnt it a threading problem the one between kernel and mono?<br /> [11:43] PcTek CyberStar: [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Agent.TextureSender.J2KDecoderModule' from assembly 'OpenSim.Region.CoreModules, Version=0.8.2.10663, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.<br /> [11:43] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: What version of mono? What linux distribution?<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Licu yea its some kind of timing / threading<br /> [11:43] Whaka Akahw: debian 8.2 and mono 4.0.4<br /> [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: with newer kernels<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: apparantly its been fixed<br /> [11:44] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: kernel from 3.16 to 4<br /> [11:44] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Have you used :sudo apt-get mono-complete<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but ive not seen evidence if that show up in opensuse yet<br /> [11:44] Whaka Akahw: i used synaptic to get it, it's the same, no .<br /> [11:44] Whaka Akahw: ?<br /> [11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm<br /> [11:44] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Cuz it could like something is missing. libgdi or something.<br /> [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure what problem is there WHaka<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but i do no think that is abug in opensim<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: its very likely a mono bug<br /> [11:45] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: The packages synaptic gras are frmo the same repos, yes.<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea make sure you have mono-complete<br /> [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: apt-get install mono-complete<br /> [11:45] PcTek CyberStar: if there is any way the council could offer some insightful advice on what to do?<br /> [11:45] Whaka Akahw: okay, i try this now<br /> [11:46] PcTek CyberStar: ok good.<br /> [11:46] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: We just did. And there's no council. We ain't Jedi Knights.<br /> [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: if that fails you could try compile mono yourself<br /> [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: council?<br /> [11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: :)<br /> [11:46] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Complete install of mono you must be having, yes.<br /> [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: also<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: could be the setting mono threads issue<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: not enough threads for mono<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: soit bogs on start<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: in ~/.bashrc<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: add<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: export MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU=2048<br /> export MONO_GC_PARAMS=nursery-size=64m<br /> [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: and restart bash<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: relaunch opensim etc..<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont have this already i would expect major problems<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: bizzare unexplainable crashes<br /> [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and stuff not working<br /> [11:49] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: So... like normal then. &gt;:)<br /> [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is thread hog<br /> [11:49] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002 is glad she has clickable windows<br /> [11:49] Ken Savage: Any solutions on the horizon to the issues with Warp3D?<br /> [11:49] PcTek CyberStar: well the lnux opensim support group practically died<br /> [11:49] PcTek CyberStar: however i like linux<br /> [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Ken: Which issues?<br /> [11:49] PcTek CyberStar: and love osg<br /> [11:50] Ken Savage: It looks great but takes forever with all the error messages on startup.<br /> [11:50] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: You'll find tons of people who use linux to host opensim.<br /> [11:50] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: Nebs the linux guru, along with a few others<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: te majority of the dev team are linux people<br /> [11:50] Marcus.Llewellyn @users.osgrid.org: Nothing has died. lol<br /> [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: alteast for servers<br /> [11:50] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems the majority probably use Linux for hosting. Definitely so for those running on a VPS or full server<br /> [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Ken, what sort of error messages are you getting? I'm not aware of any excessively long delay starting a region that is using Warp3D<br /> [11:51] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: Craft works only on linux server, windows in just a few servers and pc of third people, and it works well<br /> [11:51] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: my windows server been running my grid for over a month without restart. Pretty impressed<br /> [11:51] Ken Savage: On a 6x6 var, it takes 4x longer to start and lots more memory when I use Warp3D<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surprising<br /> [11:52] PcTek CyberStar: i might not be the smartest softball in the haunted house, but i know how to click the help button<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: big vars will probably always be a bit slower<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that is a lot of data<br /> [11:52] Ken Savage: and a lot of error messages<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br /> [11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: Anything that would involve the whole of a var region is going to take longer.<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 36 regions worth of terrain<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: you are nearing the GB barrier<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of size<br /> [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Ken: It should not be tossing error messages AFAIK. What errors are you seeing?<br /> [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 100's of MB anyway<br /> [11:52] Ken Savage: If it is set to not draw prims, its not bad<br /> [11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: warp3d gives alot of error messages about corupt textures, i found alot on my grid are because people have used local textures when building and forgot to set them to a real asset<br /> [11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: Don't think I have any region with prims enabled for the maptile<br /> [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya those are all warnings Alicia<br /> [11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: I think Warp3D actually tried to render the scene (ie the entire region) in 2Dm athough a bit dumpbed down. In any case, that's a LOT of data.<br /> [11:54] Ken Savage: Other than the Warp3D issues, the Bulletsim fall through issue is the only other thing I get complaints about.<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: if you compile opensim in Release mode and logging to INFO<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: instead of debugging<br /> [11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: some are warnings some are errors nebadon, dont stop it working tho<br /> [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you wouldnt see any of tat<br /> [11:54] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 0.8.2 have warp3d problems ?<br /> [11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have btw more problems with not using warp3d. no water on map as example 0.8.1.1<br /> [11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Warp3d is it's own madule. Unless someone decides to maintain it, it'll always have whatever issue it does.<br /> [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: The only other issue with Warp3d is still that off by one error down the right side of the map tiles.<br /> [11:56] Ubit Umarov: warp3d ,ay have a little leak problem<br /> [11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: module. Zowie I can't type today.<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: Warp3D is generally just a problem if you have it running on a timer<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: personally<br /> [11:56] PcTek CyberStar: is anyone experiencing currently missing mesh problems?<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I like generating my own map tiles<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and hard coding it<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: region starts up about 100 times faster<br /> [11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what is the replacement for warp3d ?<br /> [11:56] PcTek CyberStar: 00<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and takes tile generator out of the equation<br /> [11:56] PcTek CyberStar: region starts 100x faster<br /> [11:56] Ubit Umarov: some 16MB now and then on my little 2km region<br /> [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont generate maptiles yes<br /> [11:57] PcTek CyberStar: ok<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the thnig with maptiles is<br /> [11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only run warp3d at startup. never run map regeneration regulaior<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it has to download the entire regions worth of content<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: bfore it can render the tile<br /> [11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( err only 5k prims or so )<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: == long time<br /> [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I'd be interested in doing that too but I'm not quite sure how you do it.<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: well you can generate your maptiles however you want<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i use the viewer<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i sit myself on a cube<br /> [11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: You take your camera up about 800m and then take a snapshot. ;)<br /> [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. Just need the coordinates<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and move it up to like 300-400m range<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and go into mouselook<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: look straight down and snap a pic<br /> [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: fnacy it up in photoshop<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: upload it in world via the viewer<br /> [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: That's a lot of work.<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: get its uuid<br /> [11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: regulair map, is not showing watre in 0.8.1 well almost nothing where showing on the maptiles for me. switched it back for a test not long ago.<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and set it in OpenSim.ini or Regions.ini<br /> [11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: It's great for relatively static regions.<br /> [11:58] PcTek CyberStar: This question is for nebaddon: how do you see the future of osgrid changing as a direct impact of technologies like GRID-ON-A-STICK with hypergridding enabled?<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of work i guess but regions start faster/ use les memory<br /> [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I just had a thought. I wonder if you could somehow use a region module to automate that<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and i get a much higher quality maptile<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you 1<br /> [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: hang on a second<br /> [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen the ones at the OSCC<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: http://cc.opensimulator.org/map/<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yea for those that havent<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can get really nice results<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: even write on the tiles<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can make the tile a photo of a monkey<br /> [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: :)<br /> [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: Susanne. :)<br /> [11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: I do that with some tiles for fun.<br /> [11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb. this chairs are already in halloween mood<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: I assume we are having a halloween party this year<br /> [12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it did let me floar, resit it's gone. just where floating again. until soemonbe next ti me start sitrting<br /> [12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Wright Plaza is definitely haunted.<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: anyway making your own tiles is a nice hack<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: to increase startup times<br /> [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and possibly free up some ram<br /> [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: and avoid the off by one error in Warp3D<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: you get much higher control over how stuff looks<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you are into that kind of thing<br /> [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm. Ok. so. use warp3d one for the tiles and then screengrab them and make your riles. it's some idea<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: or that<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: actually richardus<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you watch your region startup<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it prints a URL<br /> [12:01] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: PCTek, there have been various similar implementations in past but they really have no effect overall on the grids<br /> [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: or copy the maptiles:O<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: to a JPG of your maptile<br /> [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: just load that into firefox<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and save page as<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: instant maptile grabber<br /> [12:02] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: they appeal to different people<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then you can photoshop it up<br /> [12:02] PcTek CyberStar: i knew there was sim-on-a-stick<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: enhance colors<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: slight gausian blur etc..<br /> [12:02] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: diva's distro<br /> [12:02] OtakuMegane Desu: And you can pretty much use any sort of image with a UUID.<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: right<br /> [12:02] PcTek CyberStar: but grid-on-a-stick is something new and different, especially with hypergrid enabled<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: you could use a picture of your avatars face<br /> [12:02] PcTek CyberStar: it means the end user controls he horzontal and the vertical<br /> [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: if you are doing secret work<br /> [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a script function that will return the UUID of the region map tile.<br /> [12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Something to change with next upgrade. if i can find the var maptile<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and dont want people to see<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: make it skull and crossbones<br /> [12:03] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: diva distro had the same capability in that regard<br /> [12:03] PcTek CyberStar: again i raise the question of whether ornot we should have 3 more buttons for copy grid, transfer grid, and modify grid<br /> [12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Goatse. :)<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: pcTek yes likely we will at some point<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that will require a lot of coordination though<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and being opensource<br /> [12:03] OtakuMegane Desu: Derpy Hooves is playing with portals to the west of Teravus Plaza<br /> [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: anything can change it to do whatever they want<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but sure for those who are willing to play fairly<br /> [12:04] PcTek CyberStar: well just remember that wa my idea, as such if you could allow the buttons to have my name on them, that would be great.<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lets have good toolsets for them<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am all for that<br /> [12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has anyone tried to do any terraforming recently that doesn't involve mesh terrain?<br /> [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: people just need to realize its limits is all<br /> [12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: There's terrain that's not mesh terrain?? ;)<br /> [12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if so, are your terraforming tools as borked as mine?<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: theres anything that isnt mesh :P<br /> [12:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: whats mesh terrain ;P<br /> [12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you know *exactly* what I mean<br /> [12:05] Ubit Umarov: yeap vars dont use mesh, ode neither<br /> [12:05] OtakuMegane Desu: Haven't done terraforming for a while. Some of the tools have always been kinda screwy at times though.<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: Aine I have not terraformed the standard terrrain in a very long time<br /> [12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you should try it, Neb<br /> [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: answering that honestly<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: they never worked well for me<br /> [12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's badly broken<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: so im probably not a good person to ask<br /> [12:06] PcTek CyberStar: all you need do to reinitialize the metaverse, is get new physics running on a var and divide by zero while lifting the terrain.<br /> [12:06] Ubit Umarov: only bullet converts terrain to mesh on standard regions<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: becasue i never liked how they work, not ever<br /> [12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: terraforming has only sporadically gotten love from core, and then not for a long long time now. Last fixes I remember were to speed up db updates.<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i was one of the first people doing non standard terrains in opensim<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: beacuse of that<br /> [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: Adam and I wrote a sculpty creator<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: I could take L3DT terrain<br /> [12:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: Robert did some fixes a while back for bullet<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and run it through this tool<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and it would spit out 200 sculptmaps<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: then we wrote another upload tool<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: that would reassemble it all<br /> [12:07] OtakuMegane Desu: The base terrain system is very old and the tools are pretty much what they were in SL<br /> [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: im sure you have seen some of my islands :)<br /> [12:08] Ubit Umarov: but issue is only with bullet?<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: those tools use raycast<br /> [12:08] PcTek CyberStar: nd so i had to redesign it with traditional terrain.<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its using physics raycast?<br /> [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it though<br /> [12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't tried terraforming using ODE recently<br /> [12:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: there was some slowness and brokem bit after vars came in<br /> [12:08] OtakuMegane Desu: Once the possibilities of sculpty and then mesh terrain came about I think many gave up improving the standard terrain.<br /> [12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but now vs a year or two ago is very badly broken<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i bet its Bulletsim<br /> [12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Mesh terrain has so many advantages over the standard terrain. It's just no comparison.<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: it has to remake the physics everytime you change<br /> [12:09] PcTek CyberStar: cout &lt;&lt; &quot;Please do not build your terrain up from tiny prim gravel, it is senseless to have 50,000 gravels to fill in a hole. &quot; &lt;&lt;endl;<br /> [12:09] Ubit Umarov: well on the avnmerge branch o disabled terrain undo for now<br /> [12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mesh terrain can only take 1 texture though<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its so intensive it lags the tools<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: are you running bulletsim in its own thread?<br /> [12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: k<br /> [12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: mesh terrain can take up to 8 textures.<br /> [12:09] OtakuMegane Desu: I use standard terrain still but almost always design it outside then use the tools to make minor tweaks.<br /> [12:09] Ubit Umarov: didnt like loosing 16MB or ram on each mouse click<br /> [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: you really cant make a mesh terrain that is 1 solid piece<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: that is higher qualit than the LL terrain<br /> [12:10] Marcus Llewellyn: You can. But you shouldn't. ;)<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: no you really cant<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: becasue of physics<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: you will exceed 16 bit limits<br /> [12:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: and using reduced physics on terrain is nono<br /> [12:10] PcTek CyberStar: 2^4<br /> [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: there will be spots you sink in terrain or floatabove it<br /> [12:11] PcTek CyberStar: remember terain mesh 0110<br /> [12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you're bored some day go to a flat piece of land and try to raise it a little, then try to lower it a little and you'll see what I mean<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: so if you want higher you have to make tiles<br /> [12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: to raise terrain you have to be at least at about 30% strength<br /> [12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs if you lower at 30% strength you'll dig an instand DEEP hole<br /> [12:11] PcTek CyberStar: granularity<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: didnt Aurora have better brushes?<br /> [12:11] Ubit Umarov: well thats the math on the tools i guess<br /> [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: and better terrain editing in genral?<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we should look at tht<br /> [12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and try smoothing something at minimum stength<br /> [12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: sounds similar to the issue Roberty had to fix a while back<br /> [12:12] OtakuMegane Desu: I've tried designing terrain just using the tools and it's a horrid pain. Once I got used to L3DT that was it lol<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: bet those 2 areas of code are very similar<br /> [12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it used to work somewhat well<br /> [12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then about a year ago it was broken<br /> [12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: sounds like he may need to fix again]\<br /> [12:12] PcTek CyberStar: maybe we need better source code auditing<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: and this is on Vars?<br /> [12:12] OtakuMegane Desu: Smoothing is probably the most messed up tool. It's always been a mess in my experience<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: what about on a standard 256m region?<br /> [12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7404<br /> [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: is it bad there as well?<br /> [12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's on a 256x256 standard region under Bullet<br /> [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: if its only vars that kind of makes more sense<br /> [12:13] PcTek CyberStar: whoever is making these strange changes to obscure pieces of code should be logged in the system.<br /> [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: no one has really changed this code<br /> [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: but vars and physics have changed<br /> [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: could be why<br /> [12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: All code commits are logged.<br /> [12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7444<br /> [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think anyone has touched terrain editing tools in quite some time<br /> [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: its certainly an effect of something else being changed<br /> [12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sometime last summerI think<br /> [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: unexpected consequences<br /> [12:14] OtakuMegane Desu: Only changes I can even remember to terrain editing were the commands added in a while back. Forget who committed those...<br /> [12:14] Marcus Llewellyn: We need a GSOC student. :)<br /> [12:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Or five.<br /> [12:14] PcTek CyberStar: the repos should reflect if any changes were made to that section of the code in he security logs<br /> [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea its a shame the bar is so high<br /> [12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was trying to do some terraforming today and it's hopeless<br /> [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: on GSOC<br /> [12:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did robert not checked some terrain stuff ?<br /> [12:15] Ubit Umarov: well flat smoth are tricky to use<br /> [12:15] OtakuMegane Desu: They always have been<br /> [12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only way I could do it was manual edits in PS then tertain load<br /> [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: you should try the L3DT terrain tools<br /> [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: they are quite amazing<br /> [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: butits hard to figure out<br /> [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: once you do though its fantastic<br /> [12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's drastically *worse* than it was a couple of years ago, anyway<br /> [12:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes. but... not good to get the right effect.<br /> [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: yea its always good to have the inworld tools<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: for finishing touches<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: and if the tools are rough<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: you cant do finishing work<br /> [12:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. It's a learning curve but once you get used to it, it is great. I usually design outside then import terrain and use the tools for minor touch-ups.<br /> [12:16] PcTek CyberStar: my poin is the need to kep security logs is not the sae as the relationship to accountability...<br /> [12:16] Ubit Umarov: well then we can trace commits back to when it was better :)<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: pcTek we do<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: Git tracks everything<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: no one can sneak code in<br /> [12:16] PcTek CyberStar: basically if somoene makes a thousand changes and destabilizes the code very bad they should be off the project<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: or do stuff secretly<br /> [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: its 100% impossible<br /> [12:16] Marcus Llewellyn: All code contributions are looked at and approved by members of core.<br /> [12:16] PcTek CyberStar: and the repository should pull up an older working copy of the code<br /> [12:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Do we have a time frame of when the tools were last know to not be screwed up?<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: do you know how Git works PcTek?<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: we use gi<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: git*<br /> [12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 0.7.6 they were working for sure<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=shortlog&amp;p=opensim<br /> [12:17] PcTek CyberStar: i hope it works better than the one microsoft has that's a nightmare<br /> [12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't think I did any terraforming under 0.8.0 so I'm not sure about it<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: with git you can see the history and changlogs of every patch ever<br /> [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: since day 1<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: there is a tool called git blame<br /> [12:18] PcTek CyberStar: but is it notation, or is it showing who checked it ot and made real changes or both<br /> [12:18] Shez Oyen: lol<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: http://git-scm.com/docs/git-blame<br /> [12:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: it was around the time that vars/bulletsim was introduced and mega's were broken<br /> [12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: 0.7.6 is a massive time jump. I've done terraforming on and off on a regular basis but I just got used to the tools being a pain I probably can't say when something might have gone more wrong. :P<br /> [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: changelogs record just what is changed<br /> [12:19] Marcus Llewellyn require sno paltry tool to place blame. His finger can simply point to any convenient party. :)<br /> [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and versioncontrol allows us to checkou any verison we want<br /> [12:19] PcTek CyberStar: so we can check why this new strange error in terraforming hs appeared<br /> [12:19] PcTek CyberStar: and who may be at fault<br /> [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: we can do a gitbisect<br /> [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: between a working and broken version<br /> [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: to find the exact version that broke it<br /> [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: we have plenty of good tools<br /> [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: we also hvae jenkins<br /> [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: everytime someone checks in code<br /> [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: jenkins runs unit tests and compiles<br /> [12:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Well we have a back limit if 0.7.6 was still fine. And it sounds like these problems have been going for a while. Like, all of this year?<br /> [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: tells us instatly if that code compiles or not<br /> [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: http://jenkins.opensimulator.org<br /> [12:20] PcTek CyberStar: compiling as you well know is very different from functioning as designed<br /> [12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: broken before Jan 2015 yes<br /> [12:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I had to guess I would say broken sometime between March 2014 and August 2014<br /> [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats what unit tests are for PcTek<br /> [12:21] PcTek CyberStar: it is starting to look suspicious.<br /> [12:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Ok, so somewhere between 0.7.6 and the end of 2014<br /> [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: we have 100s of unit tests that run<br /> [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: to make sure the code spits out the right answers<br /> [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: its not perfect<br /> [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: but its pretty good<br /> [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: after that our testers usually find bugs within a few hours or days<br /> [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: some sneak by for months and years<br /> [12:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Honestly, terraforming is probably one of those things that is based on code based on cade that goes back to 0.4. It's always been quirky at best. I suspect the only real fix is for someone to do a complete rewrite of that part of OpenSim.<br /> [12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> [12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it certainly was never *good*<br /> [12:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it was a lot better in the past than it is currently<br /> [12:22] Grid: Objekte wurden erfolgreich freigegeben.<br /> [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea I would say becasue of everything else going on right now<br /> [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: its not a good time to deal with terrain stuff<br /> [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: but if someone sends in patches<br /> [12:23] OtakuMegane Desu: It's the same system used in SL. And that hasn't really changed since it was created.<br /> [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: I'll be the first to check them out<br /> [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: its unlikely the core team will have time until after next release<br /> [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: which hopefully is soon<br /> [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: Diva is traveling<br /> [12:24] Nebadon Izumi: after she is back we will talk about release<br /> [12:24] Marcus Llewellyn: (Diva has escaped.)<br /> [12:24] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps justin could look at it<br /> [12:24] Nebadon Izumi: Jusin is no longer working on opensim<br /> [12:24] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps robert coudl look at it<br /> [12:24] OtakuMegane Desu: So whatever broke was probably in 2014 sometime. That's a workable range.<br /> [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: he isnt gone for good but he has a new job and will not be working on code for a bit<br /> [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: but ya there are plenty of devs around<br /> [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: until the big avinationmerge is done though<br /> [12:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Perhaps you could look it. We can't really go around volunteering core memners for tasks. ;)<br /> [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: i dont tink anyone will have much time for that<br /> [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: Robert and Diva and Melanie and Ubit are all working on that<br /> [12:26] OtakuMegane Desu: Well we can at least try to track down suspects<br /> [12:26] OtakuMegane Desu: In the meantime<br /> [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: if someone sends in patches I can look and apply them<br /> [12:26] PcTek CyberStar: i know there are some psychologists in the grid, if we find the suspect, we could get the shrinks to guilt trip them into expedient repair.<br /> [12:26] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br /> [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: get rid of terraforming and bring in voxels ;)<br /> [12:26] Marcus Llewellyn ponders sticking a form in this meeting.<br /> [12:27] Marcus Llewellyn: er, fork<br /> [12:27] OtakuMegane Desu: Trap them in a region full of screaming spengbabs<br /> [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: honestly if you want good terrain<br /> [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: dont use the in world terrain tools<br /> [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: hehe<br /> [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: even in SL the suck<br /> [12:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Noo, in SL is pretty good. OS is always pain.<br /> [12:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: What's next you say neb./ don't use opensim ?<br /> [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno I hate how LL implemented terrain<br /> [12:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: :P<br /> [12:28] OtakuMegane Desu: They may not be as buggy but they're still not great in SL<br /> [12:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: the viewece toor used can make a differen<br /> [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i hate how terrain textures work<br /> [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i hate how rough the tools are<br /> [12:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: the viewer used can make a difference<br /> [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: like you cant easily cut out a perfect squared off trench<br /> [12:28] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps if we switch the bulldozer for a microscope?<br /> [12:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah terrain textures are bad<br /> [12:28] OtakuMegane Desu: It's an ancient system really. LL came up with a basic terrain and never did much after that.<br /> [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: it gets super wrinkled<br /> [12:29] PcTek CyberStar: just changing the icon can help to implant the idea of finer granularity<br /> [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: i can make better terrain with a napkin and laser scan it<br /> [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:29] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br /> [12:29] PcTek CyberStar: lol<br /> [12:29] Marcus Llewellyn: He's not kidding. lol<br /> [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: im super picky<br /> [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: i want control of every pixel<br /> [12:30] PcTek CyberStar: i hope you have the taste to use cloth napkins, and not those cheap paper ones with mcdonalds written on them<br /> [12:30] Nebadon Izumi: and the LL terrain is kind of just always an aproximation of what you wanted<br /> [12:30] Nebadon Izumi: its never quite perfect<br /> [12:30] PcTek CyberStar: hmmm there must be a solution<br /> [12:30] OtakuMegane Desu: The textures don't even stay the same, they shift :P<br /> [12:30] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [12:30] OtakuMegane Desu: Though I never noticed until you pointed it out years ago<br /> [12:30] Nebadon Izumi: there are some good tools out there<br /> [12:31] PcTek CyberStar: perhaps if we reduced the steppage of the terrain by a factor of 10<br /> [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: Blender has awesome terrain tools<br /> [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: many good tutorials out there<br /> [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: L3DT<br /> [12:31] PcTek CyberStar: or coded a checkbox in that allowed manual entry of the step size<br /> [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: im sure many other free options<br /> [12:31] PcTek CyberStar: the terrain manipulation needs to respond faster, we could use inline assembly language in that part of the sharp code.<br /> [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDoQzsdwtQ<br /> [12:32] OtakuMegane Desu: As with mesh design there's lots of external options, but not so much in-world. WHich is what is ultimately needed.<br /> [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: this is using ANT in blender<br /> [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya i am all for improving the in world tools<br /> [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: they should atleast work how they are intended to work<br /> [12:32] Marcus Llewellyn: Heh. Inline IL won't change anything, and would probably never get past core.<br /> [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: but im not sure we can make them work any better than that<br /> [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: there is always going to be limits<br /> [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: without a complete viewer overhaul<br /> [12:32] OtakuMegane Desu: Well yeah<br /> [12:33] PcTek CyberStar: assembly runs 100x faster than even optimized c or c#<br /> [12:33] OtakuMegane Desu: Any big change is a long ways down the road obviously<br /> [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: its also 101x harder PcTek<br /> [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: thus nullifying any benefit<br /> [12:33] OtakuMegane Desu: But the current terrain system needs to go as default. Mesh would be nice if it could be manipulated in the viewer<br /> [12:33] OtakuMegane Desu: That's just a huge undertaking ti implement<br /> [12:34] Marcus Llewellyn: It isn't a code speed issue, PcTek. It's a network speed issue. When changing terrain, you're shoving a TON of UDP traffic around. A constant stream of updates from the vewer, to the sim, to services. It's a networking blast.<br /> [12:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea remember all of this is streaming<br /> [12:34] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes 1000s of miles<br /> [12:34] Ubit Umarov: forget mesh for normal terrain<br /> [12:34] PcTek CyberStar: i've written inline assembly before, it's great for finding the spots in your program that are bottlenecks and using inline assembly there, the entire program can speed up drastically changing the user experience ratios<br /> [12:34] Nebadon Izumi: a 6x6 var region is literally 100s of MB of updates<br /> [12:34] Nebadon Izumi: when you are editing<br /> [12:34] Ubit Umarov: MB had to not use them on large regions...<br /> [12:34] PcTek CyberStar: oh yes i forget about the var regions<br /> [12:34] PcTek CyberStar: :(<br /> [12:35] OtakuMegane Desu: We already saw bottleneck issues with the parcel overlays on vars and that's just a 2D mapping<br /> [12:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya we are using this stuff in ways it was never intended to be used<br /> [12:35] Ubit Umarov: i changed that neb on the avnmerge<br /> [12:35] Nebadon Izumi: cool<br /> [12:35] Ubit Umarov: but i still don't like the code for terrain<br /> [12:36] OtakuMegane Desu: I don't know that anyone really does. We're just stuck with it for now<br /> [12:36] Ubit Umarov: i was changing it for avn when the merge arrived :)<br /> [12:36] Nebadon Izumi: I think it can get better<br /> [12:36] Nebadon Izumi: and will eventually<br /> [12:36] Nebadon Izumi: but it will take time<br /> [12:36] OtakuMegane Desu: I just wish you could make caves and stuff<br /> [12:36] Nebadon Izumi: all of this takes a lot of time<br /> [12:36] PcTek CyberStar: hmmm<br /> [12:36] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of work<br /> [12:36] Nebadon Izumi: and devs only have so many sets of eyes and arms<br /> [12:36] Ubit Umarov: bah u do not want caves :p<br /> [12:36] OtakuMegane Desu: That's probably my only true complaint. But it's a limitation of using heightmaps<br /> [12:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not in this live. mabye you can build opensim on top of soemthing else someday<br /> [12:37] PcTek CyberStar: hmmmmm<br /> [12:37] Ubit Umarov: well modern heightmaps have a flags field<br /> [12:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one thng I'd really love to see which was discussed at one time was water heighmaps too<br /> [12:37] Ubit Umarov: one it no collide :)<br /> [12:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *heightmaps<br /> [12:37] Ubit Umarov: but viewers will not suport that bahh<br /> [12:37] Marcus Llewellyn: We need a hieghtmap format with 1024 layers. One for each vertical meter. &gt;:)<br /> [12:37] Nebadon Izumi: personally i dont see how water heightmaps could work<br /> [12:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, currently water is a single flat plane<br /> [12:38] Nebadon Izumi: you would not get the results you want<br /> [12:38] OtakuMegane Desu: I'd be good for someone to make the &quot;Linden water&quot; applicable to other surfaces instead of just the single water height.<br /> [12:38] Nebadon Izumi: if you have ever tried making water like that in blender<br /> [12:38] Nebadon Izumi: you would fin instant failure<br /> [12:38] Marcus Llewellyn: Honestly, I would be happier just getting rid of water altogether, and doing my own in mesh.<br /> [12:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have<br /> [12:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do waater in Blender quite often<br /> [12:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: s/l water has apability<br /> [12:39] Nebadon Izumi: would definitel need to have some kind of mechnism to keep water and terrain from stacking<br /> [12:39] Nebadon Izumi: which will happen a lot with 2 hieghmaps stacked<br /> [12:39] Marcus Llewellyn: The only downside is that we need volumetric effects for under the water. That would need viewer dev cooperation, though.<br /> [12:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: capability<br /> [12:39] Nebadon Izumi: stacking hieghtmaps is a bad idea<br /> [12:39] Nebadon Izumi: if you ask me<br /> [12:39] Nebadon Izumi: to many problems you couldnt resolve<br /> [12:39] Marcus Llewellyn: Gawd yes that's a bad idea. I was totally, completely joking when I suggedted mayered heightmaps. lol<br /> [12:39] OtakuMegane Desu: lol<br /> [12:40] Nebadon Izumi: z order is a bitch<br /> [12:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, currently you can set water level on a per-region basis<br /> [12:40] Nebadon Izumi: especially with transparent<br /> [12:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would just be nice to have finer control over that<br /> [12:40] PcTek CyberStar: maybe if we charge $20 a month for sims, we could hire a part time developer<br /> [12:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Use alpha masking instead of alpha blending. z-fighting goes away.<br /> [12:40] Nebadon Izumi: true<br /> [12:41] Ubit Umarov: seems ll considered that but gaveup<br /> [12:41] Nebadon Izumi: ive been switching all my trees to that<br /> [12:41] PcTek CyberStar: 5,000 sims x 20.00 = 100,000.00<br /> [12:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: a more scaled build , and betetr avatar camera are important too.<br /> [12:41] OtakuMegane Desu: People have been asking for better water control for a very long time even back into SL<br /> [12:41] Ubit Umarov: the llRaw format as a water map<br /> [12:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> [12:41] OtakuMegane Desu: I would love to have the nice water in lakes and stuff instead of just the one sea level<br /> [12:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: water is one of the hardest visual effects to achieve<br /> [12:41] Marcus Llewellyn: It doesn't solve problems like a river flowing sideways, though. Mesh can address that.<br /> [12:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Could that be applied like a texture on a prim?<br /> [12:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Using specular and normal maps, you can do pretty decent water on any old prim.<br /> [12:42] PcTek CyberStar: fubarr is building in osg again, for those who dont know, he is currently on the isle of barr.<br /> [12:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya i saw awesome water demo<br /> [12:42] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec<br /> [12:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this is what I'd love to be able to do: http://www.flash-filter.net/rain-drop-water-effect.phtml<br /> [12:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Look to new grids for that<br /> [12:44] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeCdepfZA-g<br /> [12:44] Nebadon Izumi: here it is<br /> [12:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Ohhh, pretties...<br /> [12:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume that's using normal + specular maps<br /> [12:44] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [12:45] Nebadon Izumi: this is how water should be done<br /> [12:45] Nebadon Izumi: with mesh and materials<br /> [12:45] Marcus Llewellyn: Amen<br /> [12:45] PcTek CyberStar: oh im so mad right now.<br /> [12:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: except you can't script any changes to it<br /> [12:45] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Hn8F-RYi8<br /> [12:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since advanced mats can't be scripted in Opensim<br /> [12:46] Nebadon Izumi: yea yet anyway<br /> [12:46] Nebadon Izumi: you can animate them here though<br /> [12:46] Nebadon Izumi: so even though you cant script changes<br /> [12:46] Nebadon Izumi: you can script water<br /> [12:46] PcTek CyberStar: how do they get all the best stuff?<br /> [12:46] PcTek CyberStar: :O<br /> [12:46] Nebadon Izumi: we can do that here<br /> [12:46] PcTek CyberStar: we're the first grid<br /> [12:46] Nebadon Izumi: everything i showed in tose videos<br /> [12:46] Nebadon Izumi: can be done in opensim<br /> [12:47] Nebadon Izumi: it just requires the talent to do so<br /> [12:47] Nebadon Izumi: :)<br /> [12:47] Nebadon Izumi: which is not easily attained<br /> [12:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and mabye different viewer<br /> [12:48] OtakuMegane Desu: Just about everything that can be done in SL can be done here. SL simply has a very large pool of users to draw from.<br /> [12:48] Nebadon Izumi: yes<br /> [12:48] PcTek CyberStar: yes and if you are having issues with cpu use being super high in your viewer try the cooperative switch<br /> [12:48] Nebadon Izumi: most of this stuff is done by highly skilled professionals<br /> [12:48] PcTek CyberStar: like someviewer.exe --cooperative 50<br /> [12:49] Marcus Llewellyn: I hear Alt-F4 can speed it up a lot too. :P)<br /> [12:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:49] Ubit Umarov: :)<br /> [12:49] PcTek CyberStar: marcus this is a real switch<br /> [12:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:50] PcTek CyberStar: smart alex<br /> [12:50] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br /> [12:50] OtakuMegane Desu: On the terrain tool issues: It looks like Robert did a lot of stuff with terrain in early-mid 2014, including some stuff with update sending. One of those may have broken stuff.<br /> [12:50] Nebadon Izumi: class troll move, fun in first person shooter games<br /> [12:50] PcTek CyberStar: ...<br /> [12:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Otaku: yes, that's roughly when I think it got broken<br /> [12:51] PcTek CyberStar: well at least his physics idea worked out great<br /> [12:51] Marcus Llewellyn: I think that the Hayes disconnect via IRC came first. ;)<br /> [12:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I wasn't doing much (any) terraforming at that time<br /> [12:51] Ubit Umarov: last change i seen i flatten was around 2009<br /> [12:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea those tools havent changed<br /> [12:52] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is changes to how var terrain works<br /> [12:52] Nebadon Izumi: have added strain<br /> [12:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess what I should do is switch to ODE and see if it has the same issues<br /> [12:52] Nebadon Izumi: maybe that distance limiter things that was added<br /> [12:52] PcTek CyberStar: we need to get lani's clone machine and use it on robert.<br /> [12:52] Nebadon Izumi: Misterblue addedsomething that kind of puts focus just around your avatar<br /> [12:52] PcTek CyberStar: give the entire grid an upgrade<br /> [12:52] Nebadon Izumi: maybe that is part of the problem<br /> [12:52] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. He was doing a bunch of var fixing in that time frame and much of the terrain stuff was related to the issues vars brought to the table<br /> [12:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea<br /> [12:52] Nebadon Izumi: he was changing how terrain loads in vars<br /> [12:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there as also a commit at allow you do change height via console of an area<br /> [12:53] Nebadon Izumi: so i imagine this plays a factor in recent changes to tools<br /> [12:53] Nebadon Izumi: maybe threading or something<br /> [12:53] Marcus Llewellyn decides to go with &quot;something&quot; as the safe bet. :)<br /> [12:53] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is a house of cards for sure<br /> [12:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the weird thing is in behaviour of raise vs lower<br /> [12:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: raise is extremely weak vs lower is extremely strong<br /> [12:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and you'd *think* that would just be a sign change<br /> [12:54] Ubit Umarov: ohh its gravity!!<br /> [12:54] Ubit Umarov: lol<br /> [12:54] Nebadon Izumi: haha<br /> [12:54] PcTek CyberStar: it sur is<br /> [12:54] PcTek CyberStar: omg<br /> [12:54] PcTek CyberStar: look at line #1,287,346,522<br /> [12:54] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> [12:54] Marcus Llewellyn notices that this meeting is now two hours long. :)<br /> [12:55] OtakuMegane Desu: 42f5054408bbd928ea2422dd9abc04ee57c80dc looks like it might be something that could affect tool response?<br /> [12:55] Nebadon Izumi: yea long meeting today<br /> [12:55] PcTek CyberStar: i blame it on whaka, for trying to get hi sim fixed.<br /> [12:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol<br /> [12:55] OtakuMegane Desu: As I've been thinking, I'm not sure if the tools themselves have been broken, rather they may respond differently with updates.<br /> [12:56] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I sadly do have to head out<br /> [12:56] Nebadon Izumi: i have a mountain of work over the next 5-6 days<br /> [12:56] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit &amp; launch): Goodbye..<br /> [12:56] OtakuMegane Desu: Yay<br /> [12:56] PcTek CyberStar: goodbye Nebadon, please give serious thought to guiding whaka step by step through getting his crashed sim up and running.<br /> [12:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, I need to go pretend to be productive as well<br /> [12:56] Nebadon Izumi: I wont have time for that PcTek<br /> [12:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a good week eveyrone<br /> [12:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Yes. Productive. ;)<br /> [12:56] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have questions hop on IRC<br /> [12:56] Nebadon Izumi: lots of helpful folks<br /> [12:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well. i better move too. something todo<br /> [12:56] Nebadon Izumi: and if Ican I will<br /> [12:56] PcTek CyberStar: thank you<br /> [12:56] Nebadon Izumi: but my time is limited at the moment<br /> [12:57] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.no-ip.org:8002: Misterblue robert did do some fixes but guess they reverted<br /> [12:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Ciaoo Neb, I'll posting the log in some minutes<br /> [12:57] Nebadon Izumi: thanks Sheera<br /> [12:57] Nebadon Izumi: see you all next week or perhaps on IRC<br /> &lt;/pre&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Office Hour Logs]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2015-09-29 2015-09-29T20:00:18Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Created page with &quot; &lt;br /&gt;[11:00] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: i think that can be useful to opensim to not only to the asp.net apps... maybe that will fix all the compatibility problems relate...&quot;</p> <hr /> <div><br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:00] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: i think that can be useful to opensim to not only to the asp.net apps... maybe that will fix all the compatibility problems related to mono but im not sure<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. My cat is calling for me. :P<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:01] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:02] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I don't see nebadon online so I can't remind him about the meeting<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. I have a cat calling for me (at the worst time, as always)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: I nominate Shez to chair the meeting. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:03] Shez Oyen: Yer so fuunnnie<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:03] Shez Oyen: :p<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:04] vegaslon plutonian: not much of a turn out<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: We forgot to advertise free donuts.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:05] Shez Oyen: Hey Rich :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi shez<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Until the next feline emergency. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: vegas, it does vary from week to week<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:06] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: woo<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:06] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: exist a way to manipulate the content of a child non scripted prim with a script on the root? manipulate mean get/set data like name key... thx for the answer<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i wish opensim did support normal fbx<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:07] Kayaker Magic: llSetLinkPrimitiveParams<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:07] Shez Oyen: There's Aine :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves...sorry I'm late<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:07] Kayaker Magic: I mean llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast! never use the slow version.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Crashed Firestorm (again)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: fbx, i used that in Poser 1.0 hehe<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:08] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: not the child prim but its inventory<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: and my cat is still calling for me. Grr...<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:08] vegaslon plutonian: can not edit inventory even when in the root prim<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: web, you mean this ? http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetPrimitiveParams#llSetLinkPrimitiveParams<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:08] Marcus Llewellyn: FBX isn't documented anywhere. It's a closed format. It's been reverse engineered with some success, but any work on that would really fall on viewer developers.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: As I understand it, it's the viewer that parses mesh uploads.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dae is fine to, as long we get rid of the 8 material limit<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: The 8 material limit isn't a collada limitation. It's a limitation of the LL protocol.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd prefer a mesh format that didn't degenerate everything in to trianges.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: triangles<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: You'd like ngon support?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: while we're dreaming....one that allows double-sided faces too<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: STEP or IGES format would be nice. :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: monogame uses fbx and is opensource, it has a converter<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and user defined armatures<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Double sided poly is a render limitation. Again... that's a viewer issue really.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and animation of objects<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:11] vegaslon plutonian: 8 materials already is up to 24 textures loaded at a time from one object<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:11] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: no no , for eg, rez 2 prims and link them , place a script in the root and the texture on the inventory of the child one and set the texture with script on the root all sides from the content of the child<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, being able to address the inventory of a child prim would be very nice<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:12] Hippo Finesmith: sorry im late :|<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: although there are lots of work-arounds with llMessageLinked<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's a nuisance<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:12] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: llSetLinkPrimitiveParams dont have the inventory types :(<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: LSL is a nuisance. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:13] vegaslon plutonian: there is also always the trick of sending a script to the child prim to get its inventory and then having the script delete itself<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the real time visual quality of the latest Unity 5 demo is mind-blowing<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would kill for even half that quality level<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:14] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (presses MakerBot, inputs data for quantum diamond computer...)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, the 8 face limit is really annoying. but then y ou still hav e the camera after that. and the avatars that are to big<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, But what level machine and graphics card do you need?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:14] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (makerbot replicates a DeBeers mining rig )<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I gather it works on relatively low-end cards<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no idea how<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:15] vegaslon plutonian: ya they are baking alot of stuff though before the level even loads<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, I suspect that's how they're handling it<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: whataever they're doing, it's pretty astounding quality<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:15] OtakuMegane Desu: That is kind of the issue SL/OS have always had: 100% dynamic world. You can't really bake or pre-render anything<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not at the level of a pure render, but pretty darn good<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:16] OtakuMegane Desu: Aside from existing textures<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, that's the challenge<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I tend to think there are optimizations in it that aren't being leveraged by the viewers<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:17] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh the viewers could be improved drastically. I don't think anyone doubts that.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:18] vegaslon plutonian: nebadon will tell you, take some of the stuff this veiwer takes and stick it in unity and it will choke<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Takes a lot of work and you'd ultimately have to cut off some of the very old/low end when moving to newer standards.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think SL/OS viewers are still only working with old openGL too<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: ^<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: You would want a viewer that is meant for OS only so it doesn't have to be limited by SL compatibility<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think so too....I think there are a lot of card-side optimizations that aren't been used<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: LL kept the viewers compatible with some very old tech. The tradeoff is perfomance and features in the rendering.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: They added some OpenGl 3.* support a while back, prolly around the mesh alha/beta. But likely they only did as much as they absolutely had to.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: AM curious what imprudence people are going todo in SL , when UDP is gone.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'd also dearly love to be able to use the occasional texture &gt;1024 resolution<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: It's possible to do that, Aine.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:19] vegaslon plutonian: they did cut off some compatablity when they released veiwer 2, had to get a new cpu<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but of course allowing that will tend to lead people to use *all* higher rez textures<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Larger textures wouldn't be hard. The viewer can aactually handle them already, you just can't upload or work with them properly<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think only allow &gt;1024 for UV maps would be usefull. but i hate uv-maps<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is that a viewer-side or sim-side thing?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: But the size is getting hugh otaku<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: You can't upload them with the viewer, no. But they can be uploaded with other tools.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Some of the crashers in SL are simply very large textures that overload the viewer.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Kind of like the old hueg.jpg<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so the field size in the databse isn't limited?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i found the any key ! [[http://core0.staticworld.net/images/idge/imported/imageapi/2014/10/08/19/slide_das-620x468-100508631-orig.jpg]]<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: I've uploaded textures up to 4096 in size, just as an experiment. They work fine.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: interesting<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:22] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: file size?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how did you upload them?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I even have one or two 2048's on one of my regions. Mesh builds that could make efficient use of that resolution.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, not with sl viewer<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: The viewers just aren't made to allow it by default. It's an arbitrary limitation as far as I know, though.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: Just like the 10 second sound limit<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I used the image uploader that comes with libomv. It requires that you edit the code to allow a larger size. It's a trivial change.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...so something I lack the necessary skills to do<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: too bad<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Like the old viewer limit on prim size<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, until LL put the limit server side too. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Of course, LL maanged to bug things up every so often and the megaprim sets were created in that window<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:25] Hippo Finesmith: hey vegaslon mind if i pm you after the meeting?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:25] vegaslon plutonian: sure<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: on the subject of textures....is there any particular reason that sizing is forced to ^2?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:25] Hippo Finesmith: thanks<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: something related to efficiency?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't know for sure, but I presume that's a limitation of the j2K library the viewer uses.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: I think it's something with OpenGL? I read once the explanation but forgot now<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Oliver Grashnar: about the comments regarding unity wouldnt google nacl be a better option (less restrictive) and how they made unity anyway ?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: It is *very* annoying to me that I can't use 386 or 768 textures.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, graphics cards require 2^ sizes, maybe not newer ones tho<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ah<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Especially for things like the OSSL dynamic texure functions.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm...<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's just sooooooo many commericial textures I use are 600x600, 800x800 or 900x900<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: 2^ fits with memory sizes, 128, 256 etc<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it's a PITA to have to scale them before upload<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: Ok, it is/was a graphics card/driver limitation. Apparently newer ones can handle a wider range of sizes and I should think even non-compliant sizes could be scaled before getting shunted to the card anyway.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: particularly with seamless since the scaling doesn't *always* result in a seamless tile<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Could just be another arbitrary limitation or something imposed by the graphics cards<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: or viewers<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:29] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: no andrew, its because at hardware level most things memory, buses etc work in powers of 2<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:30] OtakuMegane Desu: From what I'm gathering it was a technical limitation/performance issue but isn't always now unless you're using old engines or want to retain compatibility.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: An limitation to optimize things for old hardware then. Not needed these days.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess I'm wondering if seemingly arbitrary limitations like that are ones that could be disabled/ignored in Opensim much as prim sizing was<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:31] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: got this problem and fix it with a directX update... not related to opensim - old nvidia GF7600GS<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: The texture ^2 thing might be more problematic but things like prim size, texture size and sound length are entirely arbitrary. A bit of code tweaking would remove them.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: Power of 2 isn't gonna go away... that's permanent. But it could be finer grained. Right now we have limits at 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024. But there are other possible sizes that satisfy ^2, like 768.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: code tweaking of the viewer or of Opensim? (or both?)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: The viewer<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I can only guess the viewers haven't removed that because of SL rules or something.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...ty<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: That's all viewer. OpenSim could give a rats patootie about the resolution of an image asset.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:33] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: openJPEG too is an old version...<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:33] OtakuMegane Desu: I know LL chose the 10 second sound limit for example for legal reasons involving fair use.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume many also related to reasonable expectations of bandwidth available....based on internet technology 15 years ago<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: When it comes to audio assets, we do need support for longer ones. We also need support for OGM/MP3/ACC. A PCM WAV in 2015 is just obscene.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: Texture size would probably be a case of that.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or user hardware....of 15 years go<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Much older GPUs could actually choke on large textures.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Seems there still people that use imprudence. so old hardware.. uhmm<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Especially if you had numerous ones at once<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: imprudence doesnt support mesh does it?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: BUt that was like P4 days<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in the end though, it would be nice if that was a region designer's choice<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:36] vegaslon plutonian: the way we use sounds in opensim mono audio makes sense<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think GPU memory is a problem. still valid and big textures trigger texture trashing faster<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you want to make a sim that kills people with older hardware that's a design choice<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Imp does not do mesh. It doesn't so a lot of things at this point.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:36] Oliver Grashnar: what about those with phones/tablets and like lumiya viewer ?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, a big enough texture will still cause issues but something like 2048 x 2048 should be fine. It's uncommon to come across images much larger than that anyway.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: throw it away and use good harder :P<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hardware<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: 4000x4000 and 4096x4096 are quite common in mapped stuff<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then it's 1 texture coving a whole larger mesh<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: 2048 is really suitable for things like texture atlases, where you have a multiple UV maps for multiple objectsmaterials baked to a single image.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: Even that should be fine now, though haveing a lot of them would probably drag down low-end hardware<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but again, let it be a design decision rather than an enforced limit<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:38] Oliver Grashnar: +2<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: +1<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: my own home (personal) region would destroy someone with low end graphics card<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I don't care since I'm the only one using it<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: Prim size can be limited server-side in OS if region owners have issues with that and SL does too so there's 0 reason to still have a viewer lock. That's one thing.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: better woudl be if the viewer rescale it depends on hardware. but then you see something bad mabye<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:40] Oliver Grashnar: hey best of both worlds why not offer the viewer a low res option via ffmpeg that way maintaining backward support ?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Newer viewers do support texture compression.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:40] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (thinks hard limits are a business decision to enforce useablility by the general public at the expense of gamer rigs)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of limits in viewers are inherited from SL since most use the SL viewer code as a base.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the SL viewers are not optimized at all, i have good hardware. but shadows on .. no preferrable not.because frameratddrops and things get less smooth.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: There are very real practical reasons to limit texxture sizes. Personally, I'd prefer that the limit was removed from viewers, but enforced server side.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, I look at it as a case of if I decide to go insane in a region I'm building and the result is people with lower end cards will have a terrible visit, that's my problem....<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: There could be an INI setting like maxtexturesize = 1024<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I make it horrid for too many people they won't recommend it or visit again<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: vs if I make it okay for enough people, that's fine<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I can live with &quot;excluding&quot; the bottom end<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: Even if a viewer limit is left on textures 1024 is holdover from long ago. 2048 or 4096 could be done easily now. And if people really want to use larger textures, there are other ways to get them uploaded anyway<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Someone pointed out the other day about abuse of texture sizes. Use of a 512x512 texture on a tiny button on a piece of clothing.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: much as anyone who builds with mesh right now is excluding poeple with non-mesh viewers<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: It also doesn't help if people crank their viewrs to ultra when their hardware can't handle it. That's the user's fault, to put it bluntly.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: If your hardqare can't handle a ton of point lights then don't enable that feature, for the love of pete.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't know how many of you may remember the initial release of Oblivioin (the game) but it was a beast for its time<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:43] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: Oliver Grahnar, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaikai<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i suggest, we all start to use Real scaled avatars and buildings. that way you can use smaller textures. and then 1024 is enough<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and it looks better too<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but within 12 months of release just about every game on the market used that level of graphics quality<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and actually the same was true of Baldur's Gate when it first came out<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: Honestly, a 512 is fine for *most* of what we do in here. There's just the freedom to zoom the camera right up to an object, and that is when it looks like crap.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and NWN<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: In games, a user can't generally do that.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for clothing sure<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if you're making a structure that's 40m x 60m from mesh and want to UV-map it to a single texture.....<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *shudders*<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, a 512 won't do it there. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or make a single mesh to cover a 256x256 region with a custom single baked texture<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: But there are still uses for a 512 in that use case, where materials are concerned.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: A lot of texture size just involves the size of what you're putting it on. If you have an object that's only going to be a couple meters in size, you don't need 1024. You'll only notice a difference if you zoom in really close.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you end up mapping it to take tiled textures<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: Where you might use a 1034 for the diffuse, a 512 or even 256 might be plenty for normal and specular mapping.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then have 50 materials<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: I will purposely scale down textures if I'm only using it for a small object.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then you end up using 50 512x512 textures which defeats the purpose of the original limit<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I do too<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: That's where texture atlases come in. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have a full set of 8x8 specular maps for generic use<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway....not something that we can do anything about if those are all enforced by the viewer<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:48] Marcus Llewellyn: neb is clearly soooo fired. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:48] Shez Oyen: lol<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: XD<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: He's prolly really still involved with his Encitra work.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:49] Oliver Grashnar: if anyones available after the meeting i could use a little help with some connectivity issues unrelated to the meeting<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: Either that or out getting a gas station microwave cheeseburger<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: WHat connection problems ?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: ewww<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:49] OtakuMegane Desu: Removing or altering these limits is something to keep in mind as we get some OS-focused viewer work done. Unless someone manages to get patches in on the existing viewers or convinces their devs to do it, we'll just have to wait a while longer.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:50] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: what do you think about the export permission ? have a chance to be ported to the core ? is this a good/bad thing...<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:50] Oliver Grashnar: richardus can connect locally not remotely stuck on waiting for region capabilities try 3 then timeout<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Export is in core. It's just not really documented.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Depends how much problems the export function create<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:51] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: there is a war on google+ for this hihi...<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen an export option in the ini files but I'm not sure what it is really controlling.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as it's opt-in I can live with it even though it strikes me as defeating the purpose of an *open* simulator<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: There is a lot of confusion concerning what the export perm is, what it does, and how it works. It's compounded by the fact that Kitely has it's own implementation of an export perm, which is not the same as the one in OpenSim.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, opensim is being used to make closed grids. :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I know<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: The open is open-source as in the code. What anyone does with it is their business.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:52] Oliver Grashnar: why not change the licenece to stop closed grids?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: yup<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: Open grids like Osgris are an anomaly, not a normal configuration.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: There are lots of HG enabled grids running OS<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:53] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: i belive on a real P2P metaverse but also the creators have to protect them works...<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one thing I would *really* like to see fixed is the setting to disallow direct HG login (HGTP) to a region<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: There is no FOSS approved license that would stop closed grids. You're in vanity license territory at that point, and that's a terrible idea.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oliver Grashnar did you used your external ip or you mabye have router loopback problem.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's there but broken<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:54] OtakuMegane Desu: One, software licenses are almost impossible to change on a larger scale project like this. Everyone involved has to agree. Second, closed grids and private codebases aren't intended to be limited.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, that's already implemented to only HG to send them to welcome<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:54] Oliver Grashnar: richardus yes external ip as i understand it if you have loopback issue it stops connection locally... i can make account for you to see if you like ?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no, it doesn't work<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:54] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: why should i care if someone wants to close a grid?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Oliver, it's hard problem to fix. mabye someone else knows something i forgot<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have my Hedonism cklub set to disallow HG entry directly and it doesn't stop anyone from tping there<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only way to enforce HG entry is to do it grid-wide<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: You're clearly hiring the wrong bouncers. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nopes<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: estates should be an easy way to limit access<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: try it sometime<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: If closed grids were prohibited you'd actually lose some of the development. Some people do have money invested in this but contribute for the greter good as well.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, did you set the fallback and othe setting correct in robust ? otherwise it's not working<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's all set correctly<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I reported it months ago in Mantis<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Pester diva. The HG Goddess. :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: SL/OS is getting to many problems, wrong camera angle, wrong avatar/build size, no good mesh support, a pile of bugs., and am sure i forgot a pile of thgings<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: Although at the moment she's prolly even busier than neb is.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess the problem is it's way more fun to write new bugs than to fix old ones<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and the viewers still have problems with UI scaling and cxursor position.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, camera spins around when you are zoomed in to an object<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:58] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: oh the oscillations<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: Right now, everything is in a sort of holding pattern waiting on the avinationmerge branch, anyway.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew ? oh not know that one<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: A lot of that is viewer stuff and it comes about because all the major viewers are still SL-focused. That's the big audience. They're just nice enough to include OS support.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: +1<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, rotate the camera to see something &quot;right side up&quot; that is on the ground and then you select a piece of it, or select it for edit and the camera rotates back to some &quot;normal&quot; viewing direction.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: OnLook is being worked on for an OS-focus but there's not much else going on.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: It was fixed in some specific viewers.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:00] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: isnt any old game engine a viewer?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm not even sure what to do with some of the bugs I've reported since they've celebrated 1 or even 2 brithdays<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Never seen that problem<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume nobody actually goes and looks at Mantis reports that old<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: seems to be if we want more viewers just throw some gamer clients to an opensim server and see what happens<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] OtakuMegane Desu: It hasn't been entirely helped that OS has long kept in step with SL and is only now beginning to genuinely break off onto its own path.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, depends what viewer you use. I see it often.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Singularity for opensim<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, bake them a cake? ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 0f6c3fb: 2015-09-14 23:37:39 +0100 (Unix/Mono)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bit if I bake them they'd be limited to 1024x1024 reports :p<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: A &quot;viewer&quot;, as defined for our purposes, is more than just a renderer or game engine. It needs to be able to render (and edit!) prims, which is a whole seperate ballgame.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:02] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: yep<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: AIne, I never worry about the age of bugs unless a bug got fixed and the report wasn't closed, or the bug can no longer be reproduced.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...but what are the chances of it ever being looked at an addressed?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, u&quot;unable to rezz cake&quot;<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: little yellow triangle cakes<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, the usual problem is having someone with the interest to fix the problem and the knowledge of the code base in order to make the needed changes.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:03] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (rezzes cupcake and eats it)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: don't type to fast for the microphone<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:04] OtakuMegane Desu: Viewers are pretty much coded in C++ which is not a simple or entirely pleasant beast to deal with.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm watching a lot of mantis reports but I may not be able to do much about some of them.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, what button you did press :O<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:04] OtakuMegane Desu: And people who know how to work with it are definitely fewer than for say Java or c#<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:05] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: convert it to javascript :) exist a variant of javascript bullet engine<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: You see people asking for experience in C++ more than for C these days, or just usually lumped together as C/C++.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:05] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: i have a c++ compiler, it knows what to do, or tells me the errors :P<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Well obviously more than C, but C++ vs Java or C# the latter are seen much more often now<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, what button?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:06] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (or possibility of using a prototype system like python or other opengl frameworks to make clients)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:07] OtakuMegane Desu: C++ is good for working at very low-level stuff though, like drivers and even direct hardware access, things which are difficult or sometimes impsosible for higher-level languages.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:07] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: c# was suppose to be a java killer<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:07] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: javascript/webGL<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: The hour has come and gone. Time to start wrapping things up unless has something else they to discuss this week.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: your mic where short open<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: odd. No sign of the mic being open at my end.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nopes, I need to go pretend to be productive so I'm off.....have a great week everyone<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: Web.Rain the wonderful world of shader languages<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves and *poofs*<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:08] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: tc Aine.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: now it's open again<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, we've had some good user conversation, but I thing the dev meeting is not gonna happen at this point. ;)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, its doing it on its own it seems.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, I think that will wrap it up for this weeks meeting. Good seeing everyone. See you again next week.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, just let you know. that's why i do not trust build in microphones<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Richarus, perhaps its fingeritis and I'm triggering some keyboard shortcut I don't know about.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:10] Oliver Grashnar: so anyone able to help me out with this connection issue ?<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: there's a shortcut ? :O<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: please give a try to this<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: http://dotnet.github.io/core/<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:10] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (obessing about viewers seems kind of odd, as a server should know nothing about them until one opens a channel of communication -_-)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:10] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: and report next week :) thanks<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im going to get going, bye all :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:11] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: tc Alicia<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:11] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: for linux users<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:11] lavender -pretty: hello pc<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: So, are we ready to stick a fork in this meeting? :)<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I think that's what I was already suggesting.<br /> &lt;br /&gt;[12:11] Marcus Llewellyn nods.</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours 2015-09-29T19:50:11Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: /* Logs */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Quicklinks}}<br /> &lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> OpenSimulator has weekly meetings to discuss parts of the project. These take place on Wright Plaza on OSGrid.<br /> <br /> = Meetings =<br /> <br /> Meetings on Wright Plaza serve two purposes. One is the meeting described below. The second, and equally important is as a stress test so we can all see how our sim reliability is functioning at each meeting.<br /> <br /> Additionally, others are welcome to use the conference room on Wright Plaza for any other meetings they wish. This conference room is setup for meetings and the more use of it, the more testing and development is enhanced.<br /> <br /> The two html-on-a-prim one each side of the main screen are both controlled from the chat channel and can be used to present arbitrary web pages to enhance a meeting.<br /> <br /> == Tuesday - '''Office Hour''' ==<br /> This meeting is a general technical meeting for the opensim community. All are welcome to participate, but be forewarned that it is developer focussed, so attention is mostly given to near term development goals of the project, and those that are contributing code to meet those goals.<br /> <br /> In general, we tend to follow a fairly simple agenda format for our one hour.<br /> <br /> * First, developers are encouraged bring up any subjects they wish. Helping the developers focus our efforts is #1.<br /> * Second, testers and users are encouraged to bring up items of community interest that will help development.<br /> <br /> At this meeting, anything previously mentioned is fair for discussion for the balance of the meeting. Lets try to keep it moving even at the expense of getting all questions answered as we have a limited time.<br /> <br /> '''This meeting is scheduled for 1100 PST, 1400 EST, 1800 UTC, 1900 CET on Wright Plaza at OSGrid (osgrid.org).'''<br /> <br /> == Logs ==<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-22]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-15]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-01]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-11]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-04]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-28]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-07]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-23]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-09]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-02]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-26]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-19]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-28]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-14]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-04-07]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-31]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-03-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-27]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-20]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-23]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-16]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-09]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-12-02]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-25]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-11]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-11-04]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-28]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-14]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-07]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-23]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-16]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-09]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-02]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-26]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-19]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-22]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-15]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-07-01]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-27]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-20]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-13]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-05-06]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-22]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-15]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-01]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-25]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-11]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-03-04]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-25]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-28]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-14]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2014-01-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-12-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-12-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-12-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-26]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-19]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-11-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-22]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-15]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-01]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-27]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-20]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-13]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-06]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-23]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-16]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-09]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-07-02]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-25]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-11]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-04]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-28]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-14]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-05-07]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-23]]<br /> * There was no organized meeting on 2013-04-16<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-09]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-02]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-26]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-19]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-26]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-19]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-22]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-15]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2013-01-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-12-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-12-11]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-12-04]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-27]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-20]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-13]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-06]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-23]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-16]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-09]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-02]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-25]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-11]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-04]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-28]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-14]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-07]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-26]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-19]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-06-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-22]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-15]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-05-01]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-04-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-04-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-04-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-27]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-20]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-13]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-06]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-28]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-14]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-07]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-31]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-10]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-12-20]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-12-13]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-12-06]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-22]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-15]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-08]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-01]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-25]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-18]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-11]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-10-04]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-09-27]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-09-13]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-09-06]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-30]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-23]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-16]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-09]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-02]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-07-12]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-07-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-06-21]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-31]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-24]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-17]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-03]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-04-19]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-04-05]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-03-29]]<br /> * [[Chat log from the meeting on 2011-03-22]]<br /> <br /> Older chat logs can be found on the [[Chat Logs]] page.<br /> <br /> == Saturday - '''Q&amp;A Hour''' ==<br /> '''This meeting is currently not occuring, if you would like to run this meeting please see visit our IRC channel #osgrid on irc.freenode.net'''&lt;br /&gt;<br /> This is meeting tries to drive testing on OpenSimulator. All members of the opensim community are welcome to participate. Through your testing, we create a better project. Also the possibility to get answers of the questions you would have about setting up your own Grid or connect your region to the OSGrid. This meeting is less structured then &quot;Office Hour&quot; and is focused on the users and adopters rather then the developers.<br /> <br /> * First, any announcements by OSGrid admins.<br /> * Second, any information to share that helps other grids.<br /> * third, any user or tester subjects that anyone wishes to bring up.<br /> <br /> '''This meeting always occurs at 19:00 UTC/GMT (see google calendar below) at Wright Plaza.''' After the one hour is finished, anyone is welcome to continue meeting for as long as they wish.<br /> <br /> [[Category:Development]]<br /> [[Category:Office Hours]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Configuring_Regions 2013-06-18T19:39:24Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Added MaptileStaticUUID option</p> <hr /> <div>{{Languages}}<br /> = OpenSimulator 0.7 and later =<br /> <br /> By default, regions are configured in a file named Regions.ini in the bin/Regions directory. If you started a completely fresh installation of OpenSim, it will ask you a series of questions to set up your first region. <br /> <br /> Here's an example of a Regions.ini file <br /> <br /> [Big Fat Region]<br /> RegionUUID = 5ce85740-6460-43d3-ba4c-29207b010072<br /> Location = 1000,1000<br /> InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br /> InternalPort = 9000<br /> AllowAlternatePorts = False<br /> ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2<br /> <br /> This is a list of settings that must be present for a region to operate. When you start OpenSimulator for the first time without an existing Regions.ini file, you'll be asked for an entry for each setting in order to set up your initial region. For more details, see [[Configuration#Running OpenSimulator for the first time]]. <br /> <br /> {| cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;5&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; width=&quot;90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Attribute <br /> ! Description<br /> |-<br /> | [Big Fat Region] <br /> | The name of the region.<br /> |-<br /> | RegionUUID <br /> | The unique ID of the region.<br /> |-<br /> | Location <br /> | The (x, y) location of the region on the grid.<br /> |-<br /> | InternalAddress <br /> | 0.0.0.0 if you have more than one NIC on the server and you don't care which IP address OpenSimulator listens on (this is the usual setting). Alternatively, you can set to a specific IP.<br /> |-<br /> | InternalPort <br /> | IP port for all incoming client connections.<br /> |-<br /> | AllowAlternatePorts <br /> | Not Used. Leave it always False.<br /> |-<br /> | ExternalHostName <br /> | External IP Address of the router or FQDN.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> If you want to add another region you can <br /> <br /> * enter another section in Regions.ini <br /> * create another separate .ini file in bin/Regions <br /> * create an old format OpenSimulator xml file (these still work with current OpenSim) <br /> * or use the create region command on the region console (I don't recommend this since it seems to be a bit buggy).<br /> <br /> Here's an example where a second region has been added to Regions.ini <br /> <br /> [Big Fat Region]<br /> RegionUUID = 5ce85740-6460-43d3-ba4c-29207b010072<br /> Location = 1000,1000<br /> InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br /> InternalPort = 9000<br /> AllowAlternatePorts = False<br /> ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2<br /> &amp;nbsp;<br /> [Greek Wedding]<br /> RegionUUID = 5c445740-6460-43d3-ba4c-444444445555<br /> Location = 1000,1001<br /> InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br /> InternalPort = 9001<br /> AllowAlternatePorts = False<br /> ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2<br /> <br /> As you can see, the Second region is named Greek Wedding and has a different UUID. It has a different location (1000,1001) and a different InternalPort (9001). Other than that, the details are the same. <br /> <br /> To create a new UUID you can either tweak an existing one by hand (e.g. by changing one character so that the new one is in the range [0-9][A-F] or a generator can be found at uuidgen webpage. On Unix, you can also use the &lt;tt&gt;uuidgen&lt;/tt&gt; command. <br /> <br /> As well as the critical entries above, there are some additional optional ones that can change the properties of a region. These are <br /> <br /> {| cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;5&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; width=&quot;90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Attribute <br /> ! Description<br /> |-<br /> | MaxAgents <br /> | The maximum number of agents that can be in the in the region at any given time. The default is 100. As of 4/22/2011 this option only exists in the current git master.<br /> |-<br /> | MaxPrims <br /> | The maximum number of prims that the region will be listed as supporting. However, this limit is not currently enforced by OpenSimulator. Due to LL protocol constraints, the maximum limit that can be shown is 45000.<br /> |-<br /> | PhysicalPrimMax <br /> | The maximum dimensions of a physical prim. This is a single number which applies to X, Y and Z co-ordinates. This will affect resizing of existing prims. Default is 10. This setting can also be used in the [Startup] section of OpenSim.ini. If the region setting exists then it will override the OpenSim.ini setting.<br /> |-<br /> | NonphysicalPrimMax <br /> | The maximum dimensions for a non-physical prim. This is a single number which applies to X, Y and Z co-ordinates. This will affect resizing of existing prims. Default is 256. This setting can also be used in the [Startup] section of OpenSim.ini. If the region setting exists then it will override the OpenSim.ini setting.<br /> |-<br /> | ClampPrimSize <br /> | If true then if a viewer attempts to create a prim which has any dimension larger than the NonphysicalPrimMax, then that dimension is reduced to NonphysicalPrimMax. Default is false; This setting can also be used in the [Startup] section of OpenSim.ini. If the region setting exists then it will override the OpenSim.ini setting.<br /> |-<br /> | RegionType <br /> | The region type as shown in the Covenant tab of the Region/Estate dialog in a standard Second Life viewer. Not sure what this can be used for.<br /> |-<br /> | MaptileStaticUUID<br /> | UUID of texture to use as a maptile for this region. Only set if you have disabled dynamic generation of the map tile from the region contents.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> == Tools ==<br /> <br /> RegionIniGenerator(RIG1.1): A decent (sort of) GUI based region ini creator for use with 0.7+ INI style region data. Built on .NET 4 framework.<br /> <br /> == Other Tasks ==<br /> <br /> === Configuring Multiple Regions on a Single Server Instance ===<br /> <br /> To configure multiple regions on one server (i.e. a 4x4 server), edit the Regions.ini file to include multiples of the single entry already there. Make sure the RegionUUID and InternalPort are different on each one, or it won't work. To load individual OAR files into each region, use the 'change region [regionname]' command and then 'load oar [oar-location]'.<br /> <br /> = OpenSimulator 0.6.7 to OpenSimulator 0.6.9 =<br /> By default, regions are configured in a file named Regions.ini in the bin/Regions directory. If you started a completely fresh installation of OpenSim, it will ask you a series of questions to set up your first region.<br /> <br /> Here's an example of a Regions.ini<br /> <br /> [Big Fat Region]<br /> RegionUUID = 5ce85740-6460-43d3-ba4c-29207b010072<br /> Location = 1000,1000<br /> InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br /> InternalPort = 9000<br /> AllowAlternatePorts = False<br /> ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2<br /> MasterAvatarFirstName = Justin<br /> MasterAvatarLastName = Clark-Casey<br /> MasterAvatarSandboxPassword = yeahokay<br /> <br /> This is the list describing the relation between the entries in Regions.ini and the questions during setup. For detail about each question, see [[Configuration#Running OpenSimulator for the first time]].<br /> <br /> {| cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;5&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; width=&quot;90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Attribute<br /> ! Setup Console Question<br /> ! Description<br /> |-<br /> |[Big Fat Region]<br /> |New region name<br /> |The name of the region.<br /> |-<br /> |RegionUUID<br /> |Region UUID<br /> |The unique ID of the region.<br /> |-<br /> |Location<br /> |Region Location<br /> |The location of the region on the grid.<br /> |-<br /> |InternalAddress<br /> |Internal IP address<br /> |0.0.0.0 or static internal IP address.<br /> |-<br /> |InternalPort<br /> |Internal port<br /> |IP port for all incoming client connections.<br /> |-<br /> |AllowAlternatePorts<br /> |Allow alternate ports<br /> |Not Used. Leave it always False.<br /> |-<br /> |ExternalHostName<br /> |External host name<br /> |External IP Address of the router or FQDN.<br /> |-<br /> |MasterAvatarFirstName<br /> |Master Avatar first name<br /> |(0.6.9 or earlier) The first name of the master avatar.<br /> |-<br /> |MasterAvatarLastName<br /> |Master Avatar last name<br /> |(0.6.9 or earlier) The last name of the master avatar.<br /> |-<br /> |MasterAvatarSandboxPassword<br /> |Master Avatar sandbox password<br /> |(0.6.9 or earlier) The password of the master avatar.<br /> |-<br /> |}<br /> <br /> If you want to add another region you can <br /> <br /> * enter another section in Regions.ini<br /> * create another separate .ini file in bin/Regions<br /> * create an old format OpenSimulator xml file (these still work with OpenSimulator 0.6.7)<br /> * or use the create region command on the region console (I don't recommend this since it seems to be a bit buggy in 0.6.7).<br /> <br /> Here's an example where a second region has been added to Regions.ini<br /> <br /> [Big Fat Region]<br /> RegionUUID = 5ce85740-6460-43d3-ba4c-29207b010072<br /> Location = 1000,1000<br /> InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br /> InternalPort = 9000<br /> AllowAlternatePorts = False<br /> ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2<br /> MasterAvatarFirstName = Justin<br /> MasterAvatarLastName = Clark-Casey<br /> MasterAvatarSandboxPassword = yeahokay<br /> &amp;nbsp;<br /> [Greek Wedding]<br /> RegionUUID = 5c445740-6460-43d3-ba4c-444444445555<br /> Location = 1000,1001<br /> InternalAddress = 0.0.0.0<br /> InternalPort = 9001<br /> AllowAlternatePorts = False<br /> ExternalHostName = 192.168.1.2<br /> MasterAvatarFirstName = Justin<br /> MasterAvatarLastName = Clark-Casey<br /> MasterAvatarSandboxPassword = yeahokay<br /> <br /> As you can see, the Second region is named Greek Wedding and has a different UUID. It has a different location (1000,1001) and a different InternalPort (9001). Other than that, the details are the same.<br /> <br /> To create a new UUID you can either tweak an existing one by hand (e.g. by changing one character so that the new one is in the range [0-9][A-F] or a generator can be found at uidgen webpage. On Unix, you can also use the &lt;tt&gt;uuidgen&lt;/tt&gt; command.<br /> <br /> = OpenSimulator 0.6.6 and earlier =<br /> <br /> For running multiple regions on the same box, you simply make multiple copies of the 'default.xml' file inside the &lt;tt&gt;bin/Regions/&lt;/tt&gt; directory. You can do this by typing &lt;tt&gt;create region&lt;/tt&gt; at the OpenSimulator command prompt, using the script &lt;tt&gt;make.php&lt;/tt&gt; in &lt;tt&gt;share/regions&lt;/tt&gt;, or you can generate the files by hand.<br /> <br /> If you want to create the files by hand:<br /> <br /> :first copy the default.xml file in the &lt;tt&gt;bin/Regions&lt;/tt&gt; directory, and name them anything you want (I name mine region.x.y.xml, where region is the name of the region, and x and y are the grid coords.)<br /> :Open each xml file and edit the uuid (a generator can be found at uuidgen webpage or on unix, use the uuidgen command), region name, x &amp; y positions, and internal IP port.<br /> <br /> '''IMPORTANT!''' Regardless of the method you use to create your new region, the UUID, name, and grid coordinates ''must'' be unique for each region on a grid. The port assignment must be unique for each region that is running on a particular machine. The internal IP ''address'' and external host name must be the same for all regions.<br /> <br /> Note that &lt;tt&gt;sim_location_x&lt;/tt&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;sim_location_y&lt;/tt&gt; should be adjacent integers if you want your regions to be adjacent, so you can run back and forth between them. '''IMPORTANT: THESE GRID COORDINATES ARE ''NOT'' IN METERS. THEY ARE SIM POSITIONS.''' (1000, 1000) is next to (1001,1000), (1000, 1001), and so forth. 1256, 2000, 2048 and similar values are '''not''' adjacent to 1000, they are very far away, so you would not see your sims from one another.<br /> <br /> Once you have 2 or more xml files in the bin/Regions folder, running a ''single'' copy of &lt;tt&gt;OpenSim.exe&lt;/tt&gt; will start up all of your sims! If you come across any errors, there is most likely an error in your xml files.<br /> <br /> == Tools ==<br /> <br /> <br /> A powerful region generator is available at: [[RegionGenerator]]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Configuration]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Logging 2012-09-29T21:24:43Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Specifying log file location per instance</p> <hr /> <div>__NOTOC__<br /> {{Quicklinks}}<br /> &lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> == Changing logging levels before startup ==<br /> <br /> OpenSimulator uses the [http://logging.apache.org/log4net/ log4net] package for logging. This means that every executable you run for OpenSimulator has an accompanying .config file which contains the logging configuration<br /> <br /> For instance, the OpenSim.exe.config file looks like this.<br /> <br /> &lt;?xml version=&quot;1.0&quot; encoding=&quot;utf-8&quot; ?&gt;<br /> &lt;configuration&gt;<br /> &lt;configSections&gt;<br /> &lt;section name=&quot;log4net&quot; type=&quot;log4net.Config.Log4NetConfigurationSectionHandler,log4net&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/configSections&gt;<br /> &lt;appSettings&gt;<br /> &lt;/appSettings&gt;<br /> &lt;log4net&gt;<br /> &lt;appender name=&quot;Console&quot; type=&quot;OpenSim.Framework.Console.OpenSimAppender, OpenSim.Framework.Console&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;layout type=&quot;log4net.Layout.PatternLayout&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;conversionPattern value=&quot;%date{HH:mm:ss} - %message%newline&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/layout&gt;<br /> &lt;/appender&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;appender name=&quot;LogFileAppender&quot; type=&quot;log4net.Appender.FileAppender&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;file value=&quot;OpenSim.log&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;appendToFile value=&quot;true&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;layout type=&quot;log4net.Layout.PatternLayout&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;conversionPattern value=&quot;%date %-5level - %logger %message%newline&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/layout&gt;<br /> &lt;/appender&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- if you'd like to know what NHibernate is doing more set value=&quot;DEBUG&quot; --&gt;<br /> &lt;logger name=&quot;NHibernate&quot; additivity=&quot;false&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;level value=&quot;INFO&quot;/&gt;<br /> &lt;appender-ref ref=&quot;NHibernateFileLog&quot;/&gt;<br /> &lt;/logger&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;root&gt;<br /> &lt;level value=&quot;DEBUG&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;appender-ref ref=&quot;Console&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;appender-ref ref=&quot;LogFileAppender&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/root&gt;<br /> &lt;/log4net&gt;<br /> &lt;/configuration&gt;<br /> <br /> This looks rather complicated, but if you want to change the level of messages logged, then you could change the value in the &lt;root&gt; section (right at the end) which is <br /> <br /> &lt;level value=&quot;DEBUG&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> in the example above to something different, e.g.<br /> <br /> &lt;level value=&quot;WARN&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> which will only display warning and error level log messages. Permissible values are ALL, DEBUG, INFO, WARN, ERROR, FATAL, OFF<br /> <br /> You can also see from the OpenSim.exe.config file that log files are written to OpenSim.log (as well as the console).<br /> <br /> === Rolling file appender and maximum log-file size ===<br /> <br /> Log4net provides several log-file appenders. One of them is the ''RollingFileAppender'', which limits log-file size and rotates log-files automatically. To use this appender, add the following section to the log4net-configuration:<br /> <br /> &lt;appender name=&quot;RollingFileAppender&quot; type=&quot;log4net.Appender.RollingFileAppender&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;file value=&quot;OpenSim.log&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;appendToFile value=&quot;true&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;maximumFileSize value=&quot;1000KB&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;maxSizeRollBackups value=&quot;2&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;layout type=&quot;log4net.Layout.PatternLayout&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;conversionPattern value=&quot;%date %-5level - %logger %message%newline&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/layout&gt;<br /> &lt;/appender&gt;<br /> <br /> The maximum size can be set in the ''maximumFileSize'' element, the ''maxSizeRollBackups'' element determines the maximum number of rolling log-files. So, the setting above will create a log-file named ''OpenSim.log'' with a maximum size of 1000KB. When the limit is reached, ''OpenSim.log'' will be renamed to ''OpenSim.log.1'', and a fresh ''OpenSim.log'' is started (possibly after renaming ''OpenSim.log.1'' to ''OpenSim.log.2'', should that file exist already). <br /> <br /> To use the appender defined above, replace the line<br /> &lt;appender-ref ref=&quot;LogFileAppender&quot; /&gt;<br /> by<br /> &lt;appender-ref ref=&quot;RollingFileAppender&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Further information about configuration of log4net can be found on the [http://logging.apache.org/log4net/release/manual/configuration.html Log4Net configuration page].<br /> <br /> === More specialized requirements ===<br /> As an example, similar to [http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=2603 Mantis#2603], if you want logging the [[XEngine]]'s DEBUG output into a separate file ''xengine.log'', and let only the message with level INFO and higher appear on the console, you can do that by adding the following lines to your ''OpenSim.exe.config'':<br /> <br /> &lt;appender name=&quot;XengineLogFileAppender&quot; type=&quot;log4net.Appender.FileAppender&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;file value=&quot;xengine.log&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;appendToFile value=&quot;true&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;layout type=&quot;log4net.Layout.PatternLayout&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;conversionPattern value=&quot;%date %-5level - %logger %message%newline&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/layout&gt;<br /> &lt;/appender&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;appender name=&quot;XengineConsole&quot; type=&quot;OpenSim.Framework.Console.OpenSimAppender, OpenSim.Framework.Console&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;layout type=&quot;log4net.Layout.PatternLayout&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;conversionPattern value=&quot;%date{HH:mm:ss} - %message%newline&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/layout&gt;<br /> &lt;filter type=&quot;log4net.Filter.LevelRangeFilter&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;levelMin value=&quot;INFO&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;levelMax value=&quot;FATAL&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/filter&gt;<br /> &lt;/appender&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;logger name=&quot;OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.XEngine.XEngine&quot; additivity=&quot;false&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;appender-ref ref=&quot;XengineLogFileAppender&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;appender-ref ref=&quot;XengineConsole&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/logger&gt;<br /> <br /> (if there is a shorter way to do it, please replace those lines above) ;-)<br /> <br /> Or, as an easier example, if you want to have the normal logging, except for the HttpServers which you want only INFO messages for, you can add the following lines after the ''&lt;/root&gt;''-tag:<br /> <br /> &lt;logger name=&quot;OpenSim.Framework.Servers.HttpServerLogWriter&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;level value=&quot;INFO&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/logger&gt;<br /> <br /> == Setting log levels during runtime ==<br /> <br /> It isn't currently possible to change the level of logging to the log file during runtime. However, it is possible to change the level sent to the console. You can do this by executing the<br /> <br /> set log level [&lt;level&gt;]<br /> <br /> command. For example<br /> <br /> set log level error<br /> <br /> will mean only errors are sent to the console. The log still receives messages that meet the level set in the OpenSim.exe.config file at startup.<br /> <br /> Not specifying any level will tell you what the current console logging level is.<br /> <br /> Changes to the log level sent to the console will not persist over restarts. If you want the change to be permanent, you can set a threshold value in the ConsoleAppender in a config file such as OpenSim.exe.config as described above.<br /> <br /> == Specifying log file location per instance ==<br /> <br /> Logging for multiple instances run from a single OpenSim.exe isn't something that the default log4net configuration handles. Fortunately, log4net accepts environment variables. This allows a script wrapping OpenSim.exe to specify a log location by setting an environment variable. An example snippet for ''Opensim.exe.config'' might be:<br /> <br /> &lt;appender name=&quot;LogFileAppender&quot; type=&quot;log4net.Appender.FileAppender&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;file value=&quot;${OSIM_LOGPATH}\OpenSim.log&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;appendToFile value=&quot;true&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;layout type=&quot;log4net.Layout.PatternLayout&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;conversionPattern value=&quot;%date %-5level - %logger %message%newline&quot; /&gt;<br /> &lt;/layout&gt;<br /> &lt;/appender&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-16T05:43:04Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>Hi Marcus, <br /> <br /> I noticed that you have been busy with some NPC scripts, and i would like to ask you if you'd like to add them to the [[OSSL Script Library]]. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] 04:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC) <br /> <br /> &amp;nbsp;Not a problem, Firitigern.&amp;nbsp;:) <br /> <br /> --[[User:Marcus Llewellyn|Marcus Llewellyn]] 05:32, 16 October 2011 (UTC)</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-16T05:42:47Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>Hi Marcus, <br /> <br /> I noticed that you have been busy with some NPC scripts, and i would like to ask you if you'd like to add them to the [[OSSL Script Library]]. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] 04:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC) <br /> <br /> &amp;nbsp;Not a problem, Firitigern.&amp;nbsp;:) <br /> <br /> --[[User:Marcus Llewellyn|Marcus Llewellyn]] 05:32, 67 October 2011 (UTC)</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-16T05:33:40Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>Hi Marcus, <br /> <br /> I noticed that you have been busy with some NPC scripts, and i would like to ask you if you'd like to add them to the [[OSSL Script Library]]. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] 04:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC) <br /> <br /> &amp;nbsp;Not a problem, Firitigern.&amp;nbsp;:)<br /> <br /> --[[User:Marcus Llewellyn|Marcus Llewellyn]] 05:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC)</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-16T05:31:17Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>Hi Marcus,<br /> <br /> I noticed that you have been busy with some NPC scripts, and i would like to ask you if you'd like to add them to the [[OSSL_Script_Library]].<br /> <br /> --[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] 04:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> &amp;nbsp;Not a problem, Firitigern.&amp;nbsp;:)</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User:Marcus_Llewellyn 2011-10-16T05:30:01Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>= &amp;nbsp;About Marcus Llewellyn =<br /> <br /> I'm a hobbyist who's been tinkering with OpenSim since about 2008, and has regions running on OSGrid since 2009. Jack of all trades and master of none, I tend to be easily distracted by every new feature that becomes available, giving it at least a token try just to get an idea of what it is and how it's done. <br /> <br /> This page is to be used as a starting point for tips, tricks, or script examples.&lt;br&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User:Marcus_Llewellyn 2011-10-16T05:29:45Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>= &amp;nbsp;About Marcus Llewellyn =<br /> <br /> I'm a hobbyist who's been tinkering with OpenSim since about 2008, and has regions running on OSGrid since 2009. Jack of all trades and master of none, I tend to be easily distracted by every new feature that becomes available, giving it at least a token try just to get an idea of what it is and how it's done. <br /> <br /> This page is to be used as a starting point for tips, tricks, or script examples. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> == &lt;br&gt; ==</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library 2011-10-16T05:28:46Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Added script for NPC persistence per Fritigern's request.</p> <hr /> <div>{{Quicklinks}} {{information}} <br /> <br /> = OSSL Script Library =<br /> <br /> === Rules for posting: ===<br /> <br /> #Your script '''MUST''' depend on at least one [[OSSL Functions|OSSL function]], or on other OpenSim-specific functions. <br /> #Test your script in-world, and make sure it works, so that other people can use it. <br /> #No copies of scripts which already exist on this wiki, unless it exists in your own user page. <br /> #Please, no short scripts, and definitely no one-liners! <br /> #Make sure to read &quot;[[OSSL Script Library#Adding_your_script_to_the_Library|Adding your script to the Library]]&quot; for important info!<br /> <br /> == The Library ==<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;sortable&quot; border=&quot;2&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;3&quot;<br /> |-<br /> | Script Name <br /> | Posted by: <br /> | Description<br /> |-<br /> | [[OSSL Script Library/ModSendCommand|ModSendCommand]] <br /> | [[User:Justincc|Justincc]] <br /> | Demonstrates the use of an in-world script to communicate with a specific OpenSim module.<br /> |-<br /> | [[OSSL Script Library/OpenSim Radio|OpenSim Radio]] <br /> | [[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] <br /> | A dialog controlled radio for OpenSim. Uses OSSL functions to read stations from a notecard,<br /> |-<br /> | [[OSSL Script Library/Persist NPC|Persist NPC]] <br /> | [[User:Marcus Llewellyn|Marcus Llewellyn]] <br /> | A short example of a method for persisting an NPC across simulator restarts.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> == Adding your script to the Library ==<br /> <br /> *First select, right-click, and copy the following code:<br /> &lt;pre&gt; |-<br /> | [[OSSL Script Library/SCRIPT_NAME|SCRIPT_NAME]]<br /> | [[User:YOURNAME|YOURNAME]]<br /> | DESCRIPTION<br /> &lt;/pre&gt; <br /> *Edit the Library section, and paste the above code to the end of the list,, but just above &quot;'''|}'''&quot; <br /> *Replace &quot;'''SCRIPT_NAME'''&quot; with the name of your script. Make sure to change both instances. <br /> *Replace &quot;'''YOURNAME'''&quot; with your wiki username. Make sure to change both instances. <br /> *Replace the word '''DESCRIPTION''' with a short desription of what your script does. <br /> *Click the &quot;'''Show preview'''&quot; button to check and see if everything works as it's supposed to. <br /> *If something looks wrong, change whatever is not right, and click &quot;'''Show preview'''&quot; again. <br /> *If everything looks okay, click the &quot;'''Save page'''&quot; button. <br /> *In the table, look up the name of your script (it should be red) and click it. This will create a new page. <br /> *In the new page, Type '''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;source lang=&quot;lsl&quot;&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;'''. This will make the wiki recognise your script as LSL, and apply the correct source highlighting. <br /> *Paste your script into the page. <br /> *Immediately below your script, type '''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/source&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;'''. This will tell the wiki where your script ends. <br /> *Optionally add an introductory text, though you are encouraged to place usage instructions for your script in your script's comments. <br /> *Preview the page by clicking the &quot;'''Show preview'''&quot; button. <br /> *Make changes where nescessary and click the &quot;'''Show preview'''&quot; button again. <br /> *Save your page by pressing the &quot;'''Save page'''&quot; button, and presto!<br /> <br /> [[Category:Scripts]] [[Category:OSSL]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-16T05:27:22Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: User talk:Marcus Llewellyn/NPC Scripts moved to Talk:OSSL Script Library/Persist NPC: Moved on request of Fritigern to the OSSL Script Library.</p> <hr /> <div>Hi Marcus,<br /> <br /> I noticed that you have been busy with some NPC scripts, and i would like to ask you if you'd like to add them to the [[OSSL_Script_Library]].<br /> <br /> --[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] 04:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC)</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User:Marcus_Llewellyn/NPC_Scripts 2011-10-16T05:27:22Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: User:Marcus Llewellyn/NPC Scripts moved to OSSL Script Library/Persist NPC: Moved on request of Fritigern to the OSSL Script Library.</p> <hr /> <div>#REDIRECT [[OSSL Script Library/Persist NPC]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-16T05:27:22Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: User:Marcus Llewellyn/NPC Scripts moved to OSSL Script Library/Persist NPC: Moved on request of Fritigern to the OSSL Script Library.</p> <hr /> <div>When a simulator is restarted, any NPCs on that sim's regions will not automatically reappear. Much like dynamic textures, NPCs are a transient and non-persistant asset that is not stored in any database. So any scripts that controls an NPC will need to have a mechanism in place to detect wether an NPC is currently instantiated, and recreate it if it is not. <br /> <br /> == Implementing NPC Persistence&lt;br&gt; ==<br /> <br /> The [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llKey2Name llKey2Name] function placed in a timer event is the tool I use to check whether an NPC is still present in-world. If this function returns an empty string, it can be assumed that the NPC is no longer rezzed, and must be recreated. <br /> <br /> The following script is an example of the mechanism I make use of to accomplish this task. It has been kept to the bare minimum necessary to demonstrate the concept, and to manage the NPC it creates. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;source lang=&quot;lsl&quot;&gt;// NPC Persistance Example created by Marcus Llewellyn.<br /> // This script is in the Public Domain.<br /> <br /> key npc = NULL_KEY;<br /> string firstname = &quot;Dwight&quot;;<br /> string lastname = &quot;Smith&quot;;<br /> integer dead = FALSE;<br /> <br /> default<br /> {<br /> state_entry() {<br /> // Setup and rez the NPC.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) != &quot;&quot;) {<br /> // An NPC matching the UUID stored in the object description<br /> // already exists, so just retrieve the UUID.<br /> npc = temp;<br /> } else if (dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of the NPC, record the UUID in the<br /> // object's description, and set starting rotation. NPC<br /> // rotation and location are inherited from the controlling<br /> // object with an offset.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> }<br /> // Have the NPC say a greeting, and set up persistance timer and<br /> // listen for commands.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> llSetTimerEvent(10);<br /> llListen(0, &quot;&quot;, NULL_KEY, &quot;&quot;);<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> timer() {<br /> // Our NPC UUID stored in the object description should match the<br /> // UUID of our existing NPC. If it does not, we presume an untimely<br /> // demise, and initiate resurrection by simply reseting our script.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) == &quot;&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> llResetScript();<br /> } <br /> }<br /> <br /> listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string msg) {<br /> if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;kill&quot;) {<br /> // Kill the NPC, set a flag so it stays dead, and misquote<br /> // John Donne.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for me!&quot;);<br /> osNpcRemove(npc);<br /> dead = TRUE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == TRUE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of our NPC, and set flag for<br /> // persistance checks.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> dead = FALSE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Don't do anything significant if the NPC is still incarnate.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;I'm already alive, boss.&quot;);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }&lt;/source&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User_talk:Marcus_Llewellyn/NPC_Scripts 2011-10-16T05:27:22Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: User talk:Marcus Llewellyn/NPC Scripts moved to Talk:OSSL Script Library/Persist NPC: Moved on request of Fritigern to the OSSL Script Library.</p> <hr /> <div>#REDIRECT [[Talk:OSSL Script Library/Persist NPC]]</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-16T05:22:37Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Rearranged to work better as a page for a single script.</p> <hr /> <div>When a simulator is restarted, any NPCs on that sim's regions will not automatically reappear. Much like dynamic textures, NPCs are a transient and non-persistant asset that is not stored in any database. So any scripts that controls an NPC will need to have a mechanism in place to detect wether an NPC is currently instantiated, and recreate it if it is not. <br /> <br /> == Implementing NPC Persistence&lt;br&gt; ==<br /> <br /> The [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llKey2Name llKey2Name] function placed in a timer event is the tool I use to check whether an NPC is still present in-world. If this function returns an empty string, it can be assumed that the NPC is no longer rezzed, and must be recreated. <br /> <br /> The following script is an example of the mechanism I make use of to accomplish this task. It has been kept to the bare minimum necessary to demonstrate the concept, and to manage the NPC it creates. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;source lang=&quot;lsl&quot;&gt;// NPC Persistance Example created by Marcus Llewellyn.<br /> // This script is in the Public Domain.<br /> <br /> key npc = NULL_KEY;<br /> string firstname = &quot;Dwight&quot;;<br /> string lastname = &quot;Smith&quot;;<br /> integer dead = FALSE;<br /> <br /> default<br /> {<br /> state_entry() {<br /> // Setup and rez the NPC.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) != &quot;&quot;) {<br /> // An NPC matching the UUID stored in the object description<br /> // already exists, so just retrieve the UUID.<br /> npc = temp;<br /> } else if (dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of the NPC, record the UUID in the<br /> // object's description, and set starting rotation. NPC<br /> // rotation and location are inherited from the controlling<br /> // object with an offset.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> }<br /> // Have the NPC say a greeting, and set up persistance timer and<br /> // listen for commands.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> llSetTimerEvent(10);<br /> llListen(0, &quot;&quot;, NULL_KEY, &quot;&quot;);<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> timer() {<br /> // Our NPC UUID stored in the object description should match the<br /> // UUID of our existing NPC. If it does not, we presume an untimely<br /> // demise, and initiate resurrection by simply reseting our script.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) == &quot;&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> llResetScript();<br /> } <br /> }<br /> <br /> listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string msg) {<br /> if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;kill&quot;) {<br /> // Kill the NPC, set a flag so it stays dead, and misquote<br /> // John Donne.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for me!&quot;);<br /> osNpcRemove(npc);<br /> dead = TRUE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == TRUE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of our NPC, and set flag for<br /> // persistance checks.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> dead = FALSE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Don't do anything significant if the NPC is still incarnate.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;I'm already alive, boss.&quot;);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }&lt;/source&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-15T07:47:51Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: Removed an unused global variable from the script.</p> <hr /> <div>= NPC Scripts =<br /> <br /> You'll find examples or utilities here for scripting with OSSL NPCs on this page.&lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> == NPC Persistence across simulator restarts ==<br /> <br /> When a simulator is restarted, any NPCs on that sim's regions will not automatically reappear. Much like dynamic textures, NPCs are a transient and non-persistant asset that is not stored in any database. So any scripts that controls an NPC will need to have a mechanism in place to detect wether an NPC is currently instantiated, and recreate it if it is not. <br /> <br /> The [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llKey2Name llKey2Name] function placed in a timer event is the tool I use to check whether an NPC is still present in-world. If this function returns an empty string, it can be assumed that the NPC is no longer rezzed, and must be recreated. <br /> <br /> The following script is an example of the mechanism I make use of to accomplish this task. It has been kept to the bare minimum necessary to demonstrate the concept, and to manage the NPC it creates. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;source lang=&quot;lsl&quot;&gt;// NPC Persistance Example created by Marcus Llewellyn.<br /> // This script is in the Public Domain.<br /> <br /> key npc = NULL_KEY;<br /> string firstname = &quot;Dwight&quot;;<br /> string lastname = &quot;Smith&quot;;<br /> integer dead = FALSE;<br /> <br /> default<br /> {<br /> state_entry() {<br /> // Setup and rez the NPC.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) != &quot;&quot;) {<br /> // An NPC matching the UUID stored in the object description<br /> // already exists, so just retrieve the UUID.<br /> npc = temp;<br /> } else if (dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of the NPC, record the UUID in the<br /> // object's description, and set starting rotation. NPC<br /> // rotation and location are inherited from the controlling<br /> // object with an offset.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> }<br /> // Have the NPC say a greeting, and set up persistance timer and<br /> // listen for commands.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> llSetTimerEvent(10);<br /> llListen(0, &quot;&quot;, NULL_KEY, &quot;&quot;);<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> timer() {<br /> // Our NPC UUID stored in the object description should match the<br /> // UUID of our existing NPC. If it does not, we presume an untimely<br /> // demise, and initiate resurrection by simply reseting our script.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) == &quot;&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> llResetScript();<br /> } <br /> }<br /> <br /> listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string msg) {<br /> if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;kill&quot;) {<br /> // Kill the NPC, set a flag so it stays dead, and misquote<br /> // John Donne.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for me!&quot;);<br /> osNpcRemove(npc);<br /> dead = TRUE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == TRUE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of our NPC, and set flag for<br /> // persistance checks.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> dead = FALSE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Don't do anything significant if the NPC is still incarnate.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;I'm already alive, boss.&quot;);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }&lt;/source&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-15T07:37:12Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>= NPC Scripts =<br /> <br /> You'll find examples or utilities here for scripting with OSSL NPCs on this page.&lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> == NPC Persistence across simulator restarts ==<br /> <br /> When a simulator is restarted, any NPCs on that sim's regions will not automatically reappear. Much like dynamic textures, NPCs are a transient and non-persistant asset that is not stored in any database. So any scripts that controls an NPC will need to have a mechanism in place to detect wether an NPC is currently instantiated, and recreate it if it is not. <br /> <br /> The [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llKey2Name llKey2Name] function placed in a timer event is the tool I use to check whether an NPC is still present in-world. If this function returns an empty string, it can be assumed that the NPC is no longer rezzed, and must be recreated. <br /> <br /> The following script is an example of the mechanism I make use of to accomplish this task. It has been kept to the bare minimum necessary to demonstrate the concept, and to manage the NPC it creates. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;source lang=&quot;lsl&quot;&gt;// NPC Persistance Example created by Marcus Llewellyn.<br /> // This script is in the Public Domain.<br /> <br /> key npc = NULL_KEY;<br /> string firstname = &quot;Dwight&quot;;<br /> string lastname = &quot;Smith&quot;;<br /> rotation npcrotation = &lt;0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0&gt;;<br /> integer dead = FALSE;<br /> <br /> default<br /> {<br /> state_entry() {<br /> // Setup and rez the NPC.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) != &quot;&quot;) {<br /> // An NPC matching the UUID stored in the object description<br /> // already exists, so just retrieve the UUID.<br /> npc = temp;<br /> } else if (dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of the NPC, record the UUID in the<br /> // object's description, and set starting rotation. NPC<br /> // rotation and location are inherited from the controlling<br /> // object with an offset.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> }<br /> // Have the NPC say a greeting, and set up persistance timer and<br /> // listen for commands.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> llSetTimerEvent(10);<br /> llListen(0, &quot;&quot;, NULL_KEY, &quot;&quot;);<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> timer() {<br /> // Our NPC UUID stored in the object description should match the<br /> // UUID of our existing NPC. If it does not, we presume an untimely<br /> // demise, and initiate resurrection by simply reseting our script.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) == &quot;&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> llResetScript();<br /> } <br /> }<br /> <br /> listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string msg) {<br /> if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;kill&quot;) {<br /> // Kill the NPC, set a flag so it stays dead, and misquote<br /> // John Donne.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for me!&quot;);<br /> osNpcRemove(npc);<br /> dead = TRUE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == TRUE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of our NPC, and set flag for<br /> // persistance checks.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> dead = FALSE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Don't do anything significant if the NPC is still incarnate.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;I'm already alive, boss.&quot;);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }&lt;/source&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-15T07:24:16Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>= NPC Scripts =<br /> <br /> You'll find examples or utilities here for scripting with OSSL NPCs on this page.&lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> == NPC Persistence across simulator restarts ==<br /> <br /> When a simulator is restarted, any NPCs on that sim's regions will not automatically reappear. Much like dynamic textures, NPCs are a transient and non-persistant asset that is not stored in any database. So any scripts that control an NPC will need to have a mechanism in place to detect wether an NPC is currently instantiated, and recreate it if it is not. <br /> <br /> The [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llKey2Name llKey2Name] function placed in a timer event is the tool I use to check whether an NPC is still present in-world. If this function returns an empty string, it can be assumed that the NPC is no longer rezzed, and must be recreated. <br /> <br /> The following script is an example of the mechanism I make use of to accomplish this task. It has been kept to the bare minimum necessary to demonstrate the concept, and to manage the NPC it creates. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;source lang=&quot;lsl&quot;&gt;// NPC Persistance Example created by Marcus Llewellyn.<br /> // This script is in the Public Domain.<br /> <br /> key npc = NULL_KEY;<br /> string firstname = &quot;Dwight&quot;;<br /> string lastname = &quot;Smith&quot;;<br /> rotation npcrotation = &lt;0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0&gt;;<br /> integer dead = FALSE;<br /> <br /> default<br /> {<br /> state_entry() {<br /> // Setup and rez the NPC.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) != &quot;&quot;) {<br /> // An NPC matching the UUID stored in the object description<br /> // already exists, so just retrieve the UUID.<br /> npc = temp;<br /> } else if (dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of the NPC, record the UUID in the<br /> // object's description, and set starting rotation. NPC<br /> // rotation and location are inherited from the controlling<br /> // object with an offset.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> }<br /> // Have the NPC say a greeting, and set up persistance timer and<br /> // listen for commands.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> llSetTimerEvent(10);<br /> llListen(0, &quot;&quot;, NULL_KEY, &quot;&quot;);<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> timer() {<br /> // Our NPC UUID stored in the object description should match the<br /> // UUID of our existing NPC. If it does not, we presume an untimely<br /> // demise, and initiate resurrection by simply reseting our script.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) == &quot;&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> llResetScript();<br /> } <br /> }<br /> <br /> listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string msg) {<br /> if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;kill&quot;) {<br /> // Kill the NPC, set a flag so it stays dead, and misquote<br /> // John Donne.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for me!&quot;);<br /> osNpcRemove(npc);<br /> dead = TRUE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == TRUE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of our NPC, and set flag for<br /> // persistance checks.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> dead = FALSE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Don't do anything significant if the NPC is still incarnate.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;I'm already alive, boss.&quot;);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }&lt;/source&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Script_Library/Persist_NPC 2011-10-15T07:18:32Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: New page: = NPC Scripts = You'll find examples or utilities here for scripting with OSSL NPCs on this page.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; == NPC Persistance across simulator restarts == When a simulator is resta...</p> <hr /> <div>= NPC Scripts =<br /> <br /> You'll find examples or utilities here for scripting with OSSL NPCs on this page.&lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> == NPC Persistance across simulator restarts ==<br /> <br /> When a simulator is restarted, any NPCs on that sim's regions will not automatically reappear. Much like dynamic textures, NPCs are a transient and non-persistant asset that is not stored in any database. So any scripts that control an NPC will need to have a mechanism in place to detect wether an NPC is currently instantiated, and recreate it if it is not. <br /> <br /> The [http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llKey2Name llKey2Name] function placed in a timer event is the tool I use to check whether an NPC is still present in-world. If this function returns an empty string, it can be assumed that the NPC is no longer rezzed, and must be recreated. <br /> <br /> The following script is an example of the mechanism I make use of to accomplish this task. It has been kept to the bare minimum necessary to demonstrate the concept, and to manage the NPC it creates. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;source lang=&quot;lsl&quot;&gt;// NPC Persistance Example created by Marcus Llewellyn.<br /> // This script is in the Public Domain.<br /> <br /> key npc = NULL_KEY;<br /> string firstname = &quot;Dwight&quot;;<br /> string lastname = &quot;Smith&quot;;<br /> rotation npcrotation = &lt;0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0&gt;;<br /> integer dead = FALSE;<br /> <br /> default<br /> {<br /> state_entry() {<br /> // Setup and rez the NPC.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) != &quot;&quot;) {<br /> // An NPC matching the UUID stored in the object description<br /> // already exists, so just retrieve the UUID.<br /> npc = temp;<br /> } else if (dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of the NPC, record the UUID in the<br /> // object's description, and set starting rotation. NPC<br /> // rotation and location are inherited from the controlling<br /> // object with an offset.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> }<br /> // Have the NPC say a greeting, and set up persistance timer and<br /> // listen for commands.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> llSetTimerEvent(10);<br /> llListen(0, &quot;&quot;, NULL_KEY, &quot;&quot;);<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> timer() {<br /> // Our NPC UUID stored in the object description should match the<br /> // UUID of our existing NPC. If it does not, we presume an untimely<br /> // demise, and initiate resurrection by simply reseting our script.<br /> key temp = (key)llGetObjectDesc();<br /> if (llKey2Name(temp) == &quot;&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> llResetScript();<br /> } <br /> }<br /> <br /> listen(integer channel, string name, key id, string msg) {<br /> if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;kill&quot;) {<br /> // Kill the NPC, set a flag so it stays dead, and misquote<br /> // John Donne.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for me!&quot;);<br /> osNpcRemove(npc);<br /> dead = TRUE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == TRUE) {<br /> // Create a new instance of our NPC, and set flag for<br /> // persistance checks.<br /> npc = osNpcCreate(firstname, lastname, llGetPos() + &lt;1.0,0.0,0.0&gt;, llGetOwner());<br /> llSetObjectDesc((string)npc);<br /> osNpcSetRot(npc, llGetRot() * (llEuler2Rot(&lt;0, 0, 90&gt; * DEG_TO_RAD)));<br /> osNpcSay(npc, firstname + &quot; &quot; + lastname + &quot;, at your service.&quot;);<br /> dead = FALSE;<br /> } else if (llToLower(msg) == &quot;start&quot; &amp;&amp; dead == FALSE) {<br /> // Don't do anything significant if the NPC is still incarnate.<br /> osNpcSay(npc, &quot;I'm already alive, boss.&quot;);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }&lt;/source&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User:Marcus_Llewellyn 2011-10-15T07:04:52Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>= &amp;nbsp;About Marcus Llewellyn =<br /> <br /> I'm a hobbyist who's been tinkering with OpenSim since about 2008, and has regions running on OSGrid since 2009. Jack of all trades and master of none, I tend to be easily distracted by every new feature that becomes available, giving it at least a token try just to get an idea of what it is and how it's done. <br /> <br /> This page is to be used as a starting point for tips, tricks, or script examples. <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt; <br /> <br /> == Scripting Links ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Marcus Llewellyn/NPC Scripts|NPC Scripts]] <br /> <br /> &lt;br&gt;</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User:Marcus_Llewellyn 2011-10-15T06:29:34Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: New page: = &amp;nbsp;About Marcus Llewellyn = I'm a hobbyist who's been tinkering with OpenSim since about 2008, and has regions running on OSGrid since 2009. Jack of all trades and master of none, I...</p> <hr /> <div>= &amp;nbsp;About Marcus Llewellyn =<br /> <br /> I'm a hobbyist who's been tinkering with OpenSim since about 2008, and has regions running on OSGrid since 2009. Jack of all trades and master of none, I tend to be easily distracted by every new feature that becomes available, giving it at least a token try just to get an idea of what it is and how it's done. <br /> <br /> Eventually I'd like to use this page as a starting point for tips, tricks, or script examples. Until then, stay tuned.</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:OSSLNPC 2011-10-03T23:49:50Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>Please feel free to write any questions or comments you have about OSSL NPC functionality here.<br /> <br /> (the preceding unsigned comment was written by [[User:Justincc|justincc]])<br /> <br /> <br /> I am assuming that we should add a NEW section called [NPC] to the opensim.ini file with the line Enabled = true.<br /> <br /> (the preceding unsigned comment was written by [[User:Casiasfalta|Casiasfalta]])<br /> <br /> :There is a section in OpenSim.ini.example in the dev branch -- [[User:Justincc|Justincc]] 23:29, 21 August 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Nice initiave this one! :) This is the list off all commands? I would like to know if we can associate scripts to the objects or to import collada? :)<br /> <br /> (the preceding unsigned comment was written by [[User:Emekapa|Emekapa]])<br /> <br /> : Yes, the wiki contains a complete list of all OSSL functions.<br /> : Scripted attachments work on NPCs, as long as you created the NPC whilst wearing the scripted attachment.<br /> : You can also import collada, for that, see [[mesh]].<br /> :--[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] 09:02, 22 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> It is worth noting that scripts in an NPC's attachments will not run on parcels where script execution is limited to group members only. Since the UUID of an NPC changes each and every time it is rezzed, there is no way to add an NPC to a group at this time.<br /> <br /> (the preceding unsigned comment was written by [[User:Marcus_Llewellyn|Marcus Llewellyn]])</div>

Marcus Llewellyn http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Talk:OSSLNPC 2011-10-03T23:47:31Z

<p>Marcus Llewellyn: </p> <hr /> <div>Please feel free to write any questions or comments you have about OSSL NPC functionality here.<br /> <br /> (the preceding unsigned comment was written by [[User:Justincc|justincc]])<br /> <br /> <br /> I am assuming that we should add a NEW section called [NPC] to the opensim.ini file with the line Enabled = true.<br /> <br /> (the preceding unsigned comment was written by [[User:Casiasfalta|Casiasfalta]])<br /> <br /> :There is a section in OpenSim.ini.example in the dev branch -- [[User:Justincc|Justincc]] 23:29, 21 August 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Nice initiave this one! :) This is the list off all commands? I would like to know if we can associate scripts to the objects or to import collada? :)<br /> <br /> (the preceding unsigned comment was written by [[User:Emekapa|Emekapa]])<br /> <br /> : Yes, the wiki contains a complete list of all OSSL functions.<br /> : Scripted attachments work on NPCs, as long as you created the NPC whilst wearing the scripted attachment.<br /> : You can also import collada, for that, see [[mesh]].<br /> :--[[User:Fritigern|Fritigern]] 09:02, 22 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> It is worth noting that scripts in an NPC's attachments will not run on parcels where script execution is limited to group members only. Since the UUID of an NPC changes each and every time it is rezzed, there is no way to add an NPC to a group at this time.</div>

Marcus Llewellyn