Chat log from the meeting on 2022-05-10

 [11:02] Ubit.Umarov: i changed sources and updated bin/ to the result [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:02] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello! [11:02] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: Hihi [11:03] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hi Motoko, nice to meet you [11:03] Misterblue Waves: hello all [11:03] Ubit.Umarov : wel the last try to exclude folders objP did not work that well [11:03] Ubit.Umarov: they are not ignored [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice to see you again, Misterblue [11:05] Vincent Sylvester: Few minor tweaks in code this week, redoing some library assets, working on support for proper permissions although viewers still have issues with Export perms. Added support for hiding avatar title. Tweaks to lists, save some nanoseconds heh. [11:05] Vincent Sylvester: Things regarding inventory checking code in viewers is still being discussed although it is clear there is no easy way out, grid operators will have to do some leg work to fix inventories [11:06] Ubit.Umarov: i done nothing abotu that still [11:06] Vincent Sylvester: I don't think we should [11:07] Vincent Sylvester: Cleaning up the database and making sure the mess in there is sorted is part of being a grid admin, just leaving it up to OpenSim to clean up after itself, leaving it up to any software to do that, is a bad call [11:07] Vincent Sylvester: Trust is good, verification is better [11:07] Ubit.Umarov: those are mostly LL rules [11:07] Ubit.Umarov: that mostly had no impact on actual work [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby [11:08] Ubit.Umarov: and very hard to change [11:08] Ubit.Umarov: at least since the fixed from 2015 [11:08] Ubit.Umarov: with folder types patchs done by Drake darconis on libopenmetaverse and applied to opensim by diva [11:09] Ubit.Umarov: even so older things may still have bad types [11:09] Vincent Sylvester: I have had to fix 3 users inventories thus far, one of mine included, fairly simple just changing the types to regular folders, that's simple enough to do if you can find the correct folder [11:09] Ubit.Umarov: speically things on IARs [11:09] Ubit.Umarov: but it is even worse [11:09] Ubit.Umarov: see by defaul IAR does not merge folders with same name [11:10] Ubit.Umarov: so, it will duplicate all system folders on load [11:10] Ubit.Umarov: like 2, 3 etc Notecards filders, etc [11:10] Vincent Sylvester: These days I usually load IARs into subfolders entirely leaving it to the user to pull what they need out into the actual inventory folders [11:10] Ubit.Umarov: that is a violation of those "new rules" [11:10] Ubit.Umarov: yeah but by spec one should load also on / [11:11] Ubit.Umarov: so that is another reason for the new fs ( and more viewers soon) to refuse to load [11:11] Ubit.Umarov: nad not that easy to spot all cases and fix [11:12] Ubit.Umarov: also not nice of very big DBs [11:12] Ubit.Umarov: Beq idea is to just make FS do warn without fail [11:12] Ubit.Umarov: and that seems the best to do [11:13] Vincent Sylvester: I mean inventory database design along with a few other tables is abysmal that is true, there are now other database concepts that would work better for the kind of data inventory handles, but rebuilding the database interface and requiring another piece of software also adds complexity and failure points [11:13] Ubit.Umarov: some may even argue that to have 5 folders named Notecards all type 7 under My inventory is a normal opensim feature ( and it is so far ) [11:13] Vincent Sylvester: I really don't think viewers should really allow bad inventory going forward, because if there is one thing I know it's that if nothing is ever checked it will just get worse and worse [11:14] Ubit.Umarov: those are not really bad inventories [11:14] Vincent Sylvester: It's a real pain when you want to build anything and rely on the spec only to find it isn't enforced and you have to manage tons of edge cases [11:15] Ubit.Umarov: bad inventories are thigns that lost parent, links pointing to missing things, etc [11:16] Ubit.Umarov: well most inv code was made when opensim devs had the rule to not see viewers sources [11:16] Vincent Sylvester: Well focus on the fatal errors first, that is mostly bad types and root folders, those are not that hard to fix [11:16] Ubit.Umarov whispers: even libopenmetaverse had it BAD [11:16] Ubit.Umarov: as i said it was Drake who did patch libopenmetaverse with correct foldertypes [11:17] Ubit.Umarov: until then, libomv also did assume foldertype as same thing as assetType [11:17] Ubit.Umarov: was.. [11:17] Vincent Sylvester: I am writing a little script to crawl my own tables for bad data so I can fix that up before I get swarmed with tickets, I'll put a link to that up on the wiki once I am done and tested it [11:18] Ubit.Umarov: well viewers need to turn those checks into just warning [11:18] Ubit.Umarov: 2 many cases not follwoing those rules to fix [11:18] Ubit.Umarov: to start we need to trash current IAR code [11:18] Ubit.Umarov: all broken under those rules [11:19] Vincent Sylvester: Changing them to non-fatal will just mean all that code is basically for nothing as warnings will just get ignored [11:19] Ubit.Umarov: alternative is to kill most opensim grids [11:20] Vincent Sylvester: Nah, fixing the fatal errors is not as difficult as it seems [11:20] Vincent Sylvester: Trivial [11:20] Ubit.Umarov: including current 0.9,2,2 [11:20] Ubit.Umarov: that will duplicate system folders [11:20] Ubit.Umarov: on iar loads [11:20] Ubit.Umarov: still [11:20] Ubit.Umarov: nopes not that easy [11:21] Ubit.Umarov: need to reparent everything on a dup folder, etc etc [11:21] Ubit.Umarov: a scary thing on a grid with 1M entries or a lot more.. [11:21] Ubit.Umarov: and for NO reason [11:22] Ubit.Umarov: things worked fine and still do [11:22] Ubit.Umarov: and such undup is something users may do by hand in own time [11:22] Ubit.Umarov: a lot safer ( one hopes) that blind sql scripts [11:23] Ubit.Umarov: than.. [11:23] Vincent Sylvester: I'm not usually on the side of the viewer, but in this case I think making sure inventory is proper has merit. When it comes to OpenSim messy IAR code that's something that technically isn't broken just not very self-aware perhaps, but it was never meant to either [11:23] Ubit.Umarov: ofc My inveotry with type 9 should be fixed on SLQ [11:23] Ubit.Umarov: or My suitcase with type 8 [11:24] Vincent Sylvester: It's a dumb backup system to effectively work as a replacement, merging things and not overwriting the entire inventory seems to have not really been thought about [11:24] Ubit.Umarov: the no merge option is jsut broken [11:24] Ubit.Umarov: at least on system folders directly unider My inventory [11:24] Ubit.Umarov: but well this rules are, again LL ones [11:24] Vincent Sylvester: There is one easy fix to this, disallow loading inventory to / and force all folders to -1 type [11:25] Ubit.Umarov: he idea My inventory must have EXACTLY those folders is not cool [11:25] Ubit.Umarov: viewers for opensim need more flexibility within reason [11:26] Vincent Sylvester: I agree that OpenSim should offer flexibility, but then if you want to change the spec of things we need to document that so viewers have a reference to go by [11:26] Vincent Sylvester: The wiki just shows LL spec at the moment [11:26] Ubit.Umarov: so turning that new validation jsut a warning is a step in the right direction [11:26] Ubit.Umarov: with those logs we can also get a better picture of what is outthere [11:27] Ubit.Umarov: assuming some users with outstanding ones do share the logs :) [11:27] Vincent Sylvester: No one will be sending in their logs or complain to a grid operator about warnings, especially ones in the logs almost no one opens anyways [11:27] Ubit.Umarov: well some will, if you ask [11:27] Ubit.Umarov: nd the is enough [11:28] Vincent Sylvester: At that point might as well just check the table yourself using a script that applies the same validation rules [11:28] Ubit.Umarov: well another case in last days is the new viewers option to mute collision sounds [11:28] Ubit.Umarov: sadly viewers are just broken on that [11:29] Vincent Sylvester: There still remain quite a few things viewers are broken on, though lately the renewed interest in viewer development is bringing them to light one by one [11:29] Ubit.Umarov: thing is that they just compare a sound UUID with list of known collision sounds, and only mute those [11:29] Vincent Sylvester: Just takes time and effort to find and fix them all [11:29] Ubit.Umarov: ofc opensim has diferent UUIDs, becasue there was no need to have he same [11:30] Ubit.Umarov: and so that broken viewer option does not work on opensim [11:30] Ubit.Umarov: and it is broken, bc who made it forgot about llCollsionSound [11:30] Ubit.Umarov: that can change the sound to any other sound [11:30] Vincent Sylvester: I was about to ask about that [11:30] Vincent Sylvester: Do collision sounds not send to the viewer with a special type? [11:31] Ubit.Umarov: so just today i made a new code, viewers may use or not [11:31] Ubit.Umarov: added use of bit 7 of the Flags viewers send on agent Updates [11:32] Ubit.Umarov: if that is set, the region will not send collsion sounds to that avatar [11:32] Ubit.Umarov: that code is running on region ubittest here [11:32] Ubit.Umarov: and told abotu it to FS and alchemy [11:33] Ubit.Umarov: viewer code is simple, so i hope all will accept and support [11:33] Ubit.Umarov: region does Know abotu llCollisionSound, ofc [11:33] Ubit.Umarov: this flag ( or similar) is the only way to do it... not more silly "magic UUIDs" [11:34] Ubit.Umarov: well as we type, our site is DOWN [11:34] Ubit.Umarov: and no idea when even if it will return [11:34] Vincent Sylvester: If a sound used as collision sound had a special type muting that would be easy to do [11:34] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ?? no idea IF? [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes.Not sure when it went offline. [11:34] Arielle Popstar: how long has it been down? [11:34] Arielle Popstar: who runs it? [11:34] Ubit.Umarov: sometime in last ours [11:35] Ubit.Umarov: hours [11:35] Ubit.Umarov: went down during morning to me [11:35] Arielle Popstar: noticed other times its been down too ovewr the past month [11:35] Ubit.Umarov: i did commit sounds changes last night [11:35] Ubit.Umarov: today was doing he commit of the new flag code and poff [11:35] Ubit.Umarov: machine totally unreachable [11:36] Ubit.Umarov: including the Virtual machine supervisor [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, This outage is not the same as the ones we have expierience in the past. [11:36] Arielle Popstar: oh [11:36] Ubit.Umarov: i did warn the only person than can talk with the housing ppl [11:36] Arielle Popstar: server or hosting troubles? [11:36] Ubit.Umarov: need to wait now [11:37] Ubit.Umarov: seem the machine was intencionaly blocked [11:37] Ubit.Umarov: could had been like a stronf DDOS [11:37] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ouch [11:37] Ubit.Umarov: some housing ppl will kisck you out on such cases [11:37] Arielle Popstar: we have offline backups? [11:37] Ubit.Umarov: but no real information.. we need to wait [11:37] Misterblue Waves: or it's running such an old version of everything it was compromised [11:38] Misterblue Waves: these days you have to keep your patches up to date [11:38] Ubit.Umarov: meanwhie we have 2 git repos im keeping updated by hand [11:38] Ubit.Umarov: https://bitbucket.org/opensimulator/ [11:38] Vincent Sylvester: The entire machine needs rebuilding at this point, but it seems that keeps being postponed [11:38] Ubit.Umarov: here i keep all our repos [11:39] Ubit.Umarov: i created that bitbucket also on a ocasion our box did vanish [11:39] Ubit.Umarov: that time bc was unpaid :p [11:39] Misterblue Waves: I do all my work on Github so my preference is to move there but others are so hot on that idea [11:39] Ubit.Umarov: we lao have the gthub repo [11:40] Ubit.Umarov: that i need to keep updated by hand also [11:40] Misterblue Waves: I was looking into adding build Actions there [11:40] Misterblue Waves: would need to figure out how to import Mantis and the Wiki [11:40] Ubit.Umarov: bc the old machine ssh is obsolete and now refused by github [11:40] Ubit.Umarov: https://github.com/opensim [11:41] Vincent Sylvester: The box is so ancient, I'm not gonna say anything, but it is [11:41] Ubit.Umarov: so in terms of code repo, we are ok [11:41] Ubit.Umarov: my code from today is on those 2 [11:41] Misterblue Waves thinks the ssh problem is because newer sites don't accept TLS v1 and the old machine doesn't have TLS v2 for ssh [11:41] Ubit.Umarov: everything else.. fingers crossed [11:42] Ubit.Umarov: yeha its openssl is not banned everywhere ( tls2 min ) [11:42] Vincent Sylvester: Melanie is the one in charge of the box, so far through workload probably hasn't had the time to rebuild it completely [11:42] Ubit.Umarov: is now.. [11:42] Vincent Sylvester: I offered help numerous times [11:42] Ubit.Umarov: yes she wants to do those updattes and is doing them since 2018 ?? [11:43] Arielle Popstar: is she still part of core? [11:43] Ubit.Umarov: meanwhile osgrid assets seems to have issues again [11:43] Ubit.Umarov: also waiting for her to fix [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, again? They have been having an awful lot of problems of late. [11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well now there is some vodoo [11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: assets uploads work on some regions [11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: and are lost if doen on others, like this or lbsa [11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: we found that just sharing snapshots [11:45] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: well more code changes last week [11:45] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i chnaged ubode [11:45] Arielle Popstar: are they osgrid only problems or other grids running newer code see the same? [11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: opos ubode was the week before already :) [11:47] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: fixed a bug on reading ExportSupported option [11:47] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: it was read as string and should be as boolean [11:48] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: did retouch the collision sounds, making them similar lenght and removing some cliping they had [11:48] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: but small amplittude redution [11:48] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: minor thing [11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: ann another option viewers had is hide title [11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: i added suport for it [11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: also today [11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: that one does send a flag to region, in fact on same byte [11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: and we wehre ignoring it [11:51] Arielle Popstar: you mean like the username? [11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: group title above our heads [11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org:80: my "owner of nothing" [11:52] Arielle Popstar: did you ever allow usernames? [11:52] Ubit Umarov: preferences _ general has the option Hide Own group title [11:52] Ubit Umarov: usernames is what we have [11:52] Ubit Umarov: not the Display names [11:53] Ubit Umarov: and no. no plans to suport those.. we all hate them ;) [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:53] Arielle Popstar: I dont have usernames checked, only display names but i still see everyones name [11:53] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 whispers: :)) [11:53] Ubit Umarov: there was a but on ubode i worked around [11:53] Ubit Umarov: even a bug! [11:54] Arielle Popstar: just you and andrew hate them but why should that matter [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: We aren't the only two. [11:54] Arielle Popstar: only 2 i remember :) [11:54] Ubit Umarov: ofc can't go see what mantis 8995 is, but it was it :) [11:54] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: only 2 that prefer usernames to display names? [11:54] Arielle Popstar: the other couldnt really care less [11:54] Arielle Popstar: that didnt want to allow the option [11:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: OpenSim is already a free for all in so many ways, give people the ability to change names at random and we get total anarchy [11:55] Arielle Popstar: eh? [11:55] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok ty vincent, now I know what we are actually talking about [11:55] Ubit Umarov: LSL lists have a fun issue with null [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: If you decide to have a display name that uses upside down backwards text how is someone to know how to type that so they can address a message to you? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: even on core c#code [11:56] Arielle Popstar: copy paste it [11:56] Ubit Umarov: comparing l == null   calls a list to list compare [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: If you are using a display name and someone has their viewer set to show only user names will you still recognize your own user name if someone uses it? [11:56] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: makes sense now, i misread it the first time through :) [11:56] Ubit Umarov: that had somewhat slow code [11:56] Arielle Popstar: thats what i do in s/l [11:57] Ubit Umarov: in particula if running the region inside VS debug [11:57] Ubit Umarov: but slow as in very slow.. [11:57] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Andrew - While I would, I see the point - too many people wouldn't [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Copy it from where, Arielle? [11:57] Ubit Umarov: a changed that code [11:57] Ubit Umarov: so now it is slow as normal slow! [11:57] Arielle Popstar: but people rarely use local for direting chat to specific  person. Most is done in IM [11:58] Arielle Popstar: profile [11:58] Arielle Popstar: or the radar list of names [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Profile shows the username. [11:58] Ubit Umarov: display names where the WORSE idea lindens had :p [11:58] Arielle Popstar: not in S/L [11:59] Ubit Umarov: ove the ones with just space [11:59] Ubit Umarov: we see Nothing [11:59] Arielle Popstar: they have a lot of bad ideas but Opensim still follws them  for everything else [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have any radar device. [11:59] Ubit Umarov: see a case we did not follow :p [11:59] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Are we really having that debate again? Display names is a no, that's that [12:00] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Sorry, I've got to hop out a hair early, wife needs this computer for class about to start [12:00] Arielle Popstar: The people icon for nearby, friends, groups etc [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, np Michael. Thanks for dropping by. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: have fun michael.Christopher [12:00] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: bye [12:00] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: see you all next week! [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: We'll be here. :) [12:00] Arielle Popstar: No reason it cant be revisited Vincent [12:00] Arielle Popstar: things change [12:00] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Bigger fish to fry [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes. [12:01] Arielle Popstar: always but they need more fire to get them heated before they fry [12:02] Ubit Umarov: and what news do you bring about opensim? :) [12:02] Arielle Popstar: Ubit could probably do the code in 10 minutes if he wanted to [12:02] Ubit Umarov: a few grids made it [12:02] Ubit Umarov: i mostly would need to just ask :p [12:02] Arielle Popstar: so 2 minutes to put in the premade patch :) [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I think Vincent already covered most of the recent changes at the start of the hour. [12:03] Ubit Umarov: those where the ones i tried to detail [12:03] Arielle Popstar: any updates on Bullet  MisterBlue? [12:03] Misterblue Waves: I'm releasing a new version of Convoar today that makes much more compliant GLTF files [12:03] Arielle Popstar: oh nice [12:04] Misterblue Waves: nothing done and nothing planned for BulletSim [12:04] Kayaker Magic: The bug I reported where a region hangs on some llCastRay calls, I'm upgrading one of the systems right now to see if Ubuntu 16.04 is the only place it fails. [12:04] Ubit Umarov: that is not a hang [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: 16.04? That is a rather old version of Ubuntu. [12:04] Ubit Umarov: is taking some time [12:05] Ubit Umarov: raycast can be very slow [12:05] Ubit Umarov: on dense regions etc [12:05] Kayaker Magic: I noticed that it only fails near the SW corner in vars, so if some people can re-try again down there they may see the failure. [12:05] Ubit Umarov: fails? [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Any error messages? [12:06] Kayaker Magic: I call llCastRay on these systems and all avatars freeze and cannot move, all scripts in the region stop running for a minute. [12:06] Kayaker Magic: Is that a crash or a hang? [12:06] Ubit Umarov: you told nothing abotu fails.. just taking a lot of time [12:06] Ubit Umarov: yes that is not a fail [12:06] Ubit Umarov: it is take time [12:06] Misterblue Waves: for BulletSim, raycast is done all in software [12:07] Kayaker Magic: ubode and YEngine, as reported in the mantis, which I cannot add notes to at the moment.... [12:07] Ubit Umarov: a minute is a lot of time.. something odd [12:07] Ubit Umarov: but it is a current issue [12:08] Ubit Umarov: it takes time and holds a script thread for a lot of time [12:08] Kayaker Magic: I'm doing a bunch of new tests. Updating the operating system, planning a binary search of versions to find when it started. [12:08] Ubit Umarov: with X that meant X using more threads [12:08] Ubit Umarov: not on Y [12:08] Kayaker Magic: (versions of OpenSim) [12:09] Ubit Umarov: it looks worse with ubode ( runs on heartbeat) and Y engine.. ( has 2 exec threads) [12:09] Kayaker Magic: The discovery that it doesn't fail in the NE corner had me check for inside/ouside 256meters (var region issue) but I have seen failures outside that range. [12:10] Ubit Umarov: NE means nothin [12:10] Ubit Umarov: a ray as a start and a end [12:10] Ubit Umarov: NE is what.. start, end? [12:10] Kayaker Magic: Just this morning I think I noticed the time the avatars stay locked up seems to get less as I do the test farther from 0,0 [12:11] Kayaker Magic: As I move the prim around that runs the test script, in some places it locks up avatars, other locations it does not. [12:12] Kayaker Magic: I have a lot of tests to do, it will not get resolved by talking about it here..... [12:12] Ubit Umarov: rays and several other things need a new special code [12:12] Ubit Umarov: like ossl notecards [12:13] Kayaker Magic: I disable osMakeNotecard on all my regions. [12:13] Ubit Umarov: code that puts the script to sleep, and queues the work to be done by a external thread [12:13] Ubit Umarov: and taken out of sleep when result arrives [12:14] Kayaker Magic: (CreateNotecard? WriteNotecard? can't look up the name without opensimulator.org) [12:14] Ubit Umarov: in case of os notecards is actualy making them usind Dataserver [12:14] Ubit Umarov: as they should always had [12:14] Ubit Umarov: osnotceard where just bad ideas [12:15] Kayaker Magic: As God and Philip Linden intended! [12:15] Ubit Umarov: but i told that already :) [12:15] Arielle Popstar: probably a reason they did it that way [12:15] Ubit Umarov: dataserv is a external service thread [12:16] Ubit Umarov: that does the work async, not stoppinf the script threads [12:16] Ubit Umarov: osnotecards did by pass that, so script threads may stop waiting for web [12:17] Ubit Umarov: adding them was jsut ignorind the multhreading role of dataserv mechanics [12:17] Ubit Umarov: wle details.. [12:17] Ubit Umarov: and Yengine is in fact more sensitive to that [12:18] Ubit Umarov: so as i said, another mechanism is needed [12:18] Ubit Umarov: to enqueue work outside, putting that thread in sleep while it is donw [12:18] Ubit Umarov: ray cast also needs that [12:19] Ubit Umarov: bc those can only be done by physcis thread in a particular time slot [12:19] Ubit Umarov: currently once per heartbeat [12:20] Ubit Umarov: rays are a part of collision detection code [12:20] Ubit Umarov: or done when they are [12:20] Ubit Umarov: ( and yes.. can be very SLOW ) [12:21] Ubit Umarov: abuse of raycast == slow down region :) [12:21] Ubit Umarov: ( avatar cameras also do a lot ) [12:22] Ubit Umarov: wel when standing [12:22] Ubit Umarov: er and camera attached to the avatar [12:23] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye all [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby. [12:23] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans [12:23] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: bye [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: See you next week. [12:24] Kayaker Magic: I have to walk over to the barn to see how my update to Ubuntu 18.04 is going. [12:24] Kayaker Magic: see you all next week [12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: You keep it hidden in a barn? ;) [12:24] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: c cya [12:24] Misterblue Waves: take care all... bye bye [12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. See you next week. [12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: It is almost half past the hour so it is about time to wrap up todays meeting unless there is any urgent last minute item(s) for today. [12:25] Arielle Popstar: Is Opensim in maintenance mode now? No new features considered or planned? [12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: The short answer to that would be no. [12:27] Arielle Popstar: so dying like s/l [12:27] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002 whispers: ^^ [12:27] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Then why are you here then? [12:27] Arielle Popstar: why are you? [12:27] Arielle Popstar: you bring nothing new? [12:27] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Check the commit log and mantis once that is back up if you want to know what went on the last few months [12:28] Arielle Popstar: i have [12:28] Arielle Popstar: hence my question [12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Before this goes downhill I'm going to call this meeting to a close. [12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.