Chat log from the meeting on 2015-07-14

[2015/07/14 11:05] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hello [2015/07/14 11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hi Neb [2015/07/14 11:05] Shez Oyen: Hiya Neb :) [2015/07/14 11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: on the neighborn sim that says your banned [2015/07/14 11:06]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: peeping Richardus? [2015/07/14 11:07]  Shez Oyen: No peeping here.. just windchimes and water [2015/07/14 11:07]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya same here [2015/07/14 11:08]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes, neb [2015/07/14 11:08]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: possible secret invisible nuclair reactore that's going into meltdown [2015/07/14 11:08]  IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: don't want to ask this in public chat but....are AI and Melanie actively trying to scare MOSES off into doing their own fork and not contributing to core? It just seems like a crap-load of nit-picking which is pretty rich considering the various travesties of broken patches Melanie has dumped untested into core [2015/07/14 11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it comes from fukushima [2015/07/14 11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Pluto strikes back, maybe? [2015/07/14 11:09] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com nods [2015/07/14 11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: https://metropolis_metav/region/Fukushima/125/119/33 [2015/07/14 11:09] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: I guess more to the point of not having any of their code contributions coming back [2015/07/14 11:10] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com nods [2015/07/14 11:10] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: okay [2015/07/14 11:11] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: I guess they just seem to be one of the only ones actively loooking to do any development work at all on it [2015/07/14 11:11]  IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: and they have expressed an interest in improving the networking side of things [2015/07/14 11:12] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: and since none of the other devs are doing anything, I guess i'd hoped that maybe MOSES would get around to solving some of these very long-standing bugs [2015/07/14 11:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: been a busy week for me [2015/07/14 11:12]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i havent done much testing of code [2015/07/14 11:12] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: well yeah not holding my breath [2015/07/14 11:13] Shez Oyen: I've just been doing a little terrain editing.. no problems. [2015/07/14 11:13] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: but not holding my breath for *any* dev work [2015/07/14 11:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have been uploading some free content from the web [2015/07/14 11:14] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: other than Mel's FSAssets, nothing has happened with core in 3+ weeks now [2015/07/14 11:14] IM: Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com: and nothing significant since Diva tackled inventory a few months aago [2015/07/14 11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, just see that the slurl is wrong. because HG [2015/07/14 11:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [2015/07/14 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dahlia [2015/07/14 11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've been playing with normal and specular mapping [2015/07/14 11:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea me too Aine [2015/07/14 11:15] vegaslon plutonian: finally getting around to using the feature I last contributed to opensim in a non testing way [2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there is an awesome app I found [2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its not free though [2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Crazybump [2015/07/14 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://www.crazybump.com/ [2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its amazing [2015/07/14 11:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: brb afk 1 sec [2015/07/14 11:15] Shez Oyen: Allow Residents on other parcels to see and chat with residents on this parcel won't stay ticked in the land tool... a minor annoyance [2015/07/14 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: this isn't the best lighting for it but if you look at my skin you'll see that it's "wet mapped" [2015/07/14 11:16] Shez Oyen: looks like glitter a bit [2015/07/14 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes...still perfecting the methods [2015/07/14 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but getting closer to it [2015/07/14 11:17]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and so much depends on the windlight settings used to view it [2015/07/14 11:17]  Robert Adams: what is necessary to complete the advanced material settings? [2015/07/14 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: whatever "hook" is necessary for for scripts to talk to it [2015/07/14 11:17]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: advanced mats are there and done [2015/07/14 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the script aspect isn't [2015/07/14 11:18]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so at present all you can do is manually change [2015/07/14 11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: there's a problem with letting scripts modify it [2015/07/14 11:18]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it likely will not be implemented [2015/07/14 11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 whispers: oh [2015/07/14 11:19]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well that's rather disappointing [2015/07/14 11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess whatever that issue is doesn't exist for SL's method [2015/07/14 11:19] Robert Adams: what is the problem,Dahlia? [2015/07/14 11:19] Sarah Kline: no scrio [2015/07/14 11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it has to do with the way materials are currently stored and the rate at which scripts can generate them [2015/07/14 11:19] Sarah Kline: no scripted persperation [2015/07/14 11:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: back [2015/07/14 11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so the handling of PRIM_BUMP_SHINY is utterly different? [2015/07/14 11:20] Robert Adams: so there is a griefing problem (controlling change rate) and a data structure access problem (getting to materinal info ffom script context)? [2015/07/14 11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's calling viewer-side images or something? [2015/07/14 11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bump and shiny are stored differently [2015/07/14 11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 suggests complaints be directed to Oren ;) [2015/07/14 11:22]  Robert Adams: I still don't know what needs to be changed [2015/07/14 11:22]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: how are the manually-set materials stored? as part of a blob? [2015/07/14 11:22]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assume it's only storing UUID and settings values, not generating a new map each time [2015/07/14 11:23]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: When I first did materials, I used dynamic attributes to store them. Oren changed it to make them assets [2015/07/14 11:24]  mattie mcbride gave you Note to Nebs from Mattie McBride. [2015/07/14 11:25]  mattie mcbride gave you NPC Animate - NEBS. [2015/07/14 11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: all the LSL really does is change the UUID right? [2015/07/14 11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but what your saying is that UUID is stored in a asset? [2015/07/14 11:27] IM: Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net: We had a big discussion about this on the core mailing list. Its a security issue [2015/07/14 11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, material texture = asset. but. [2015/07/14 11:28] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I wish we had more control over the Normal [2015/07/14 11:29] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: does anyone know what the Texture blending stuff is on the Diffuse texture tab? [2015/07/14 11:29] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev        a7543a3: 2015-07-13 19:04:45 +0200 (Unix/Mono) [2015/07/14 11:29] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there is an Alpha Mode drop down [2015/07/14 11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that determines how th alpha channel is handles [2015/07/14 11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea that is what I figured, I have kind of tinkered with it a bit, but I never really see much difference between them [2015/07/14 11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: heh [2015/07/14 11:30] vegaslon plutonian: blending means there is diffrent amounts of alpha in it, while masking means it is alpha or it is not [2015/07/14 11:30] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the biggest difference is easy to see [2015/07/14 11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: upload a png that is completely opaque but has an alpha channel [2015/07/14 11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the put another prim/surface over it that has some level of alpha [2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it will glitch [2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: right [2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ordering bugs [2015/07/14 11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then turn off the alpha of the underneath layer and it stops glitching [2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 11:31] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have noticed that, that was one reason I was asking [2015/07/14 11:31] vegaslon plutonian: masking does not have that problem becouse it is not trying to mix the alphas together it is black and white so it knows exactly which is infront of the other [2015/07/14 11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mostly if you have a texture with some alpha to it you want it in alpha blending mode [2015/07/14 11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I forget what the third setting does [2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I did notice on my trees that using masking with like 128 [2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: they looked a lot better [2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: didnt get those wierd ordering artifacts when caming around [2015/07/14 11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [2015/07/14 11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: sometimes the edges look wierd though [2015/07/14 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't played with it extensively yet for anything other than simple mode-swtiching [2015/07/14 11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: have to mess with that number quite a bit [2015/07/14 11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: guess it helps to have really clean textures [2015/07/14 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would be really useful for scritped effects but you can's change it with scrips [2015/07/14 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *can't [2015/07/14 11:34]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I am also wondering [2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in SL you can which I believe is how some of those really high quality water effects are being achieved [2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: like on water slides [2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: do you have to set both Specular and Normal for it to work [2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and riggers [2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *rivers [2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: seems like if I only set normal I cant notice much change [2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and waterfalls [2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: seems like the 2 are heavily reliant on each other [2015/07/14 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a lot of it depends on your windlight too [2015/07/14 11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Normal and Specular [2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since those are only affecting point source lights [2015/07/14 11:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: you can still animage materials via scripts [2015/07/14 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya I normally use a prim like to test it mostly [2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if your windlight has ambient cranked up it will wipe it [2015/07/14 11:35]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *animate [2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no you can't [2015/07/14 11:35]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea animation does seem to work [2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh....animation you can, yes [2015/07/14 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but not changes to it [2015/07/14 11:35]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they should track standard texture animation [2015/07/14 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i did some flowing water [2015/07/14 11:35] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that looked very good [2015/07/14 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the normal and specular maps to move along with the texture when you use texture animation [2015/07/14 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *do [2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: could we come up with OSSL that lets us to temporary changes? [2015/07/14 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but you can't change them other than via manual edit [2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that dont get stored [2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: only visible while simulation is running [2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: region restarts it goes back to the original? [2015/07/14 11:36] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that would be extremely useful still [2015/07/14 11:37] vegaslon plutonian: like what we have for dynamic textures? [2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and avoid the asset bloat [2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: whatever mechanism is used for point light controls ought to work much the same way I would think [2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: have OSSL to manipulate this stuff but in a way tha wont generate any asset bloat [2015/07/14 11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it only modifies the running scene or something [2015/07/14 11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: just a thought [2015/07/14 11:38] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org whispers: :) [2015/07/14 11:39]  vegaslon plutonian: besides what would make creating a new material assets be much diffrent then creating new notecards? [2015/07/14 11:39]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm not motivated to take the time to kludge up a solution like that. Maybe someone else is. [2015/07/14 11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I was mostly curious if i was even possible [2015/07/14 11:39]  Robert Adams: that is a possible bandaid to the current implementation... would make it different than SL, though [2015/07/14 11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: more than asking anyone to do it :) [2015/07/14 11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'd rather see someone who made them assets change them back to dynamic attributes [2015/07/14 11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: we have already declared that being different from SL is a good thing [2015/07/14 11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and have a migration plan [2015/07/14 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it seems like they're sstill being stored in the table as dynamic attributes [2015/07/14 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or in .prims table it is [2015/07/14 11:40]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no, that's legacy code [2015/07/14 11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm [2015/07/14 11:41]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: so dahlia your saying if we went back to old code you did [2015/07/14 11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it would be safe? [2015/07/14 11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: strange that my region would have created and populated and continues to update that column then since it was created after that change [2015/07/14 11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I was assuming you were saying there was no safe way we could do it [2015/07/14 11:41]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think there was some other bug in that code, but the storage method would be better [2015/07/14 11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok [2015/07/14 11:42]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: my suggestion was based on thinking there was no other solution [2015/07/14 11:42] Robert Adams: are the dynamic attributes persistant? [2015/07/14 11:42] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but then you have a migration that needs to happen [2015/07/14 11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back. I was here before anyone else, switched workspaces while waiting for people to show up and that must have crashed the viewer as it wasn't running when I remembered I was supposed to be her for this meeting. [2015/07/14 11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what was Oren't reason for changing it in the first place? [2015/07/14 11:42] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Robert, yes they persist [2015/07/14 11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Also, Aurora and Whitecore dont have dynamic attributes [2015/07/14 11:43] IM: Andrew Hellershanks: What have I missed? [2015/07/14 11:43] Robert Adams: then it's a configuration switch and let Oren keep up the 'legacy' way ;-) [2015/07/14 11:43]  IM: Andrew Hellershanks: ok [2015/07/14 11:44]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: It's a huge problem but until it's addressed, a single rogue script could shut down an entire grid's asset service [2015/07/14 11:44]  Notecard saved [2015/07/14 11:44]  Shez Oyen: ouch [2015/07/14 11:44]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: therefore the script method won't be implemented by me [2015/07/14 11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks received your inventory offer. [2015/07/14 11:44]  IM: Andrew Hellershanks: ty [2015/07/14 11:46]  Robert Adams: I might look into this this weekend... I'll see what's needed [2015/07/14 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice [2015/07/14 11:46]  IM: Andrew Hellershanks: Seems I didn't miss much [2015/07/14 11:46]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that would, indeed, be very nice [2015/07/14 11:46] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: have fun :) I'm on IRC if you need help with how it works [2015/07/14 11:46]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can think of a ton of applications for it [2015/07/14 11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: vehicle damage for one [2015/07/14 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: well any kind of damage really [2015/07/14 11:47]  vegaslon plutonian: lol make your tires wear out [2015/07/14 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hehe ya [2015/07/14 11:47]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lost of potential for dynamic environment effects as well [2015/07/14 11:47]  OtakuMegane Desu: Dynamic is good [2015/07/14 11:47]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *lots [2015/07/14 11:48]  Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de: Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ -.- guten Morgen -.-  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ [2015/07/14 11:48]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and of course in mesh wearables a vast array of possibilities [2015/07/14 11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: particularly to cut down on the necessiry tocary around huge inventories [2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea there are some really cool avatar systems in SL now [2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: where you dont even get avatar parts in your inventory anymore [2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its just a hud [2015/07/14 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [2015/07/14 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: same with clothing [2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you can change all kinds of stuff [2015/07/14 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya clothes, hair everything [2015/07/14 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's been a real explosion of it in the alst 6 months as people have gotten a handle on how it all works [2015/07/14 11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Im not sure how that works with hypergrid and assets [2015/07/14 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you would have the textures in the mesh's inventory [2015/07/14 11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea me either, I imagine though [2015/07/14 11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but doing it on wearables may be impractical with materials being assets [2015/07/14 11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you had everything in your suitcase would be ok [2015/07/14 11:50]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you put the asset into the mesh's inventory [2015/07/14 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then call it by name [2015/07/14 11:51] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no, the asset is dynamically created [2015/07/14 11:51] vegaslon plutonian: does dynamic atributes work over HG? [2015/07/14 11:51]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they did when I first coded it that way [2015/07/14 11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when you apply a normal map to something it creates a new texture? [2015/07/14 11:52] Robert Adams: would them being assets be for HGing? [2015/07/14 11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it creates a new asset [2015/07/14 11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: basically its like a mini database asset that gets created? [2015/07/14 11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: its more like a notecard than texture right? [2015/07/14 11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: change *anything* on a material and a new asset is created [2015/07/14 11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *ANYTHING* [2015/07/14 11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: wow [2015/07/14 11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is that because of something to do with XBake? [2015/07/14 11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no [2015/07/14 11:53]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That's stupid. [2015/07/14 11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it just seems....rather an odd way to handle it [2015/07/14 11:53]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: so parameters are not stored in the same asset [2015/07/14 11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: More assets table bloat [2015/07/14 11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: After I implemented materials, Oren changed them to be assets. I suggest you talk with him about it. [2015/07/14 11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sound smore that when you change a parameter a new asset is created [2015/07/14 11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *anything* [2015/07/14 11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: was there any reason *why* he changed it? [2015/07/14 11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ask Oren :) [2015/07/14 11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Well no point in looking back honestly [2015/07/14 11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: hehe [2015/07/14 11:55]  OtakuMegane Desu: Maybe something about them being assets was easier to work with at the time. [2015/07/14 11:55]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lets see what Robert finds [2015/07/14 11:56]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they worked fine as attributes [2015/07/14 11:56]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and attributes was more consistent with how any other texture parameter is stored [2015/07/14 11:56]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: honestly at this point my own personal opinion I honestly wouldnt even care if I had to fix everything I was using materials on [2015/07/14 11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I havent used it that widespread yet [2015/07/14 11:57] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: others have [2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: thats just my own opinion though [2015/07/14 11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya [2015/07/14 11:57]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe.. not like the change to sit position. :) [2015/07/14 11:57] Robert Adams: and I want content creators to be happy [2015/07/14 11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i would never try to force that onto anyone [2015/07/14 11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: heh [2015/07/14 11:57]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and I dont want to break all that content and deal with the flak on social media [2015/07/14 11:57]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 11:58]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: maybe someone else does :) [2015/07/14 11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: always best to avoid it if we can [2015/07/14 11:58] Robert Adams: I don't mind flak [2015/07/14 11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: True. But, if we leave things as is an try to kludge along, what will the eventual result befor those same creators? Or new ones? [2015/07/14 11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya I dont mind it too much either as long as its justified [2015/07/14 11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Same her [2015/07/14 11:58] vegaslon plutonian: got to have thick skin when you keep breaking peoples vehicles [2015/07/14 11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: e [2015/07/14 11:58]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I fully admit I was the one who convinced justin to break the sit stuff twice [2015/07/14 11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: :) [2015/07/14 11:59]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: people are fine with saying go ahead and break compatibility until it's their stuff that breaks [2015/07/14 11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: haha ya [2015/07/14 11:59]  Robert Adams: but, if I did it, I'd make it a config parameter, default to dyn attributes, and add some way of old asset to change into new dyn attrib [2015/07/14 11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: realitiy is a bitch [2015/07/14 11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes you have to break something if it fixes a bug or makes something better rather than getting stuck with something forever because it would break some peoples items. [2015/07/14 11:59]  Robert Adams: but there may be reasons that cant' be done.... I'll have to look [2015/07/14 11:59]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Robert, there are inventory, transfer, and hypergrid issues to consider [2015/07/14 11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: People will complain regardless but most will ultimately just deal with it after venting if there was a good/beneficial reason for the change. [2015/07/14 12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: The longer you live with the problem the worse things become when you want to fix it. [2015/07/14 12:00] OtakuMegane Desu: ^ Also that [2015/07/14 12:00] vegaslon plutonian: I think he changed to assets becouse they was not being saved in oars [2015/07/14 12:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2015/07/14 12:01] Connected [2015/07/14 12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net: the current code should be able to read either storage method, assuming it hasn't changed since the last time I looked at it [2015/07/14 12:01]  OtakuMegane Desu: Opensim is still in an early enough stage things can be broken or changed if it's necessary and the world will not implode. Few years down the road and we're pretty much stuck. [2015/07/14 12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but it only writes assets [2015/07/14 12:01] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: crashed! [2015/07/14 12:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2015/07/14 12:01] Connected [2015/07/14 12:02] Robert Adams: if the dyn attribs are serialized with the SOG, they should go into oars [2015/07/14 12:02] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit.. [2015/07/14 12:02] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: cool I was asking same thing about oars as I crashed [2015/07/14 12:03] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Robert, yes the attribute method worked with oars and iars also [2015/07/14 12:03] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Robert if you need some objects or material textures to test with let me know [2015/07/14 12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: afk [2015/07/14 12:04] Robert Adams: thanks Neb, I will do that [2015/07/14 12:05] Robert Adams: I also friended Aine hoping for some testing help ;-) [2015/07/14 12:05]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice :) [2015/07/14 12:06] Robert Adams: Hey Cute! Timezone problems? [2015/07/14 12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any time [2015/07/14 12:06] Cuteulala Artis: *hi [2015/07/14 12:07] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [2015/07/14 12:07]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: not sure if i mentioned it last week but figured out cool way to use Shwrinkwrap modifier in blender [2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_001.png [2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_002.png [2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_003.png [2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_004.png [2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/shrinkwrap_005.png [2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: painting strips onto a parking lot [2015/07/14 12:07] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: a very not flat parking lot [2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: picture # 5 really highlights how not flat it is [2015/07/14 12:08]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe [2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I tried doing it with prims [2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: would have taken like 8 hours [2015/07/14 12:08] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol [2015/07/14 12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, shrinkwrap would have made that child's play [2015/07/14 12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea was like 30 minutes to do entire parking lot [2015/07/14 12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: vs like an hour for 2 rows [2015/07/14 12:09] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: lol [2015/07/14 12:10] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: shrinkwrap is good tool [2015/07/14 12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice to be finally able to texture things better in blender directly [2015/07/14 12:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: some of the texture painting stuff in blender is pretty nice [2015/07/14 12:11] Cuteulala Artis: what the hell happen to the sim lololol [2015/07/14 12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's also live-link between Blender and PS or between Blender and Gimp [2015/07/14 12:11] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: looks ok to me Cuteulala [2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is really, really handy [2015/07/14 12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to remember stuf I forgot about blender after I hadn't used it in ages. I haven't gotten to texturing anything yet. [2015/07/14 12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: A link between GIMP and Blender? How?? [2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you can just keep both up and switch back and forth as needed [2015/07/14 12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: in blender there is a video editor tool called OpenShot [2015/07/14 12:12] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that hooks directly to blender [2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it opens the file in both and "shares" it [2015/07/14 12:12]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you can use blender to render 3D titles and stuff [2015/07/14 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with frequent updates [2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so any change made in one is reflected in the other [2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is great [2015/07/14 12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: nice [2015/07/14 12:13] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, I'd be interested in knowing how to do that. [2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you can do all your cloning using PS's toolds [2015/07/14 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then do coarser stuff in Blender [2015/07/14 12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I use GIMP for editing [2015/07/14 12:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Andrew, blender probably just polls the file for changes [2015/07/14 12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://www.blendernation.com/2012/09/18/blender-gimp-autorefresh/ [2015/07/14 12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, using a link to an image file instead of importing the image directly in to Blender. hm... yea, I could check on how that works. [2015/07/14 12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's a free version of it too somewhere though [2015/07/14 12:14] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you could probably do this without an addon [2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: the addon probably just makes it a little easier [2015/07/14 12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, it is a commercial addon. :P [2015/07/14 12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes [2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: it really depends on how you have your textures stored in the project in blender [2015/07/14 12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's probably just running a pair of scripts [2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you just need to set hard paths to your textures [2015/07/14 12:15] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: and not embed them directly into the .blend file [2015/07/14 12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: right [2015/07/14 12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Here: https://sites.google.com/site/pointatstuffweb/external-paint-autorefresh [2015/07/14 12:15] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: gotta go, bye all :) [2015/07/14 12:16]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: see you Dahlia [2015/07/14 12:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Dahlia [2015/07/14 12:16]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia [2015/07/14 12:16]  Andrew Hellershanks: wow. after 12 already [2015/07/14 12:16]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea flew by today :) [2015/07/14 12:17] Robert Adams: I'm running also... see you all later [2015/07/14 12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: so everybody still here [2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I recently updated my Blender to the 2.75a version that came out about awek ago. [2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: s/awek/a week/ [2015/07/14 12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 12.75 a ? [2015/07/14 12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: im still on 2.74 [2015/07/14 12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, checking [2015/07/14 12:17] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i'll give 2.75 a shot soon [2015/07/14 12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm on 2.75 now [2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, 2.75 came out on the 1st and the a version on the 87th [2015/07/14 12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: 8th [2015/07/14 12:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, thx. still running 2.75 [2015/07/14 12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I've enabled a few additional plug-ins based on some videos I saw and added a couple that I had to download. [2015/07/14 12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Two videos on the top 10 addons for Blender [2015/07/14 12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I also ran acros a video for Blender on how to make minions. :D [2015/07/14 12:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ya that was a good one [2015/07/14 12:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: there are tons of great blender tutorials on youtube and cgcookie [2015/07/14 12:20] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: but even with good tutorials it takes a lot of time and practice [2015/07/14 12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes [2015/07/14 12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: constant use more than anything else [2015/07/14 12:21] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea [2015/07/14 12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. [2015/07/14 12:21] vegaslon plutonian: been working on this dragon lately, learning alot about animation in blender https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p_VAdfCcns [2015/07/14 12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I forget how to snap points in relation to the grid and moving the 3d cursor to a point so I could rotate curves to create an object [2015/07/14 12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: that is awesome vegaslon [2015/07/14 12:22] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: I have a big dragon like that in SL [2015/07/14 12:23]  Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: best way i have found in blender to rotate [2015/07/14 12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you hit the "r" key [2015/07/14 12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I've done it before and its simple (if one remembers how) [2015/07/14 12:23] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: then whatever axis so say you want to rotate on X axis [2015/07/14 12:24] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: you type > r > x > 180 [2015/07/14 12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's also key to make sure you have selected the right pivot point :p [2015/07/14 12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: No need to move the 3D cursor? [2015/07/14 12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it depends what you're doing [2015/07/14 12:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and in what mode [2015/07/14 12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: it used to be that you grabbe the two points on the vertical axis then did a rotate with the 3D cursor at one of the two points on the axis. [2015/07/14 12:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but you'll want to be familiar with your pivot point options because they're *very* very hand [2015/07/14 12:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *handy [2015/07/14 12:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: if you want to snap to a certain point I am not really sure a great way to do that other than to just modify the number [2015/07/14 12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I was rotating a dxf imported curve [2015/07/14 12:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok. bye all. [2015/07/14 12:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: yea I unfortuately need to run for a bit too [2015/07/14 12:25] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: i'll be back on IRC in about an hour though [2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a way to snap things in relation to ther points but I forget how. I'l have to look up the video on making an i-beam that uses that technique [2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I should be going to. [2015/07/14 12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: Andrew I suggest google for Blender Shortcut Cheatsheet [2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: my typing is going to pot cause something is loading down my machine. [2015/07/14 12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: http://gryllus.net/Blender/Syllabus/Blender%20Hotkeys%20Cheatsheet.pdf [2015/07/14 12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, I have one but it is buried on my desk under other papers. [2015/07/14 12:27] Nebadon.Izumi @hg.osgrid.org: ok well thanks guys good talking, same time next week :)