Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-24

[11:01] Nalates Urriah: I'm seeing slow rez too and my connection is good [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: thats what happens when 10 people all log in at the same time [11:01] Cai Laval: hello all [11:01] Richardus Raymaker shouts: hi justin [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: dunno why anyone is suprised its rezzing slow [11:01] Cai Laval: long climb up [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:01] Qandy Saw: haha [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net: Hi [11:02]  Cai Laval: pftt iam sitting [11:02] Nalates Urriah: Hi Justin [11:02] Cai Laval: hi blue [11:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net: Hello [11:03] Cai Laval: lol dutch take another seat [11:03] Cai Laval: your tail is into my nose now [11:03] Dutchy Daredevil: hello bluerira Neb hiro sharpjust [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: sharp. in still cloud ? grin [11:03] Cai Laval: dutch.. [11:03] Cai Laval: get off.. [11:04] Sharp Hall: richard: you're still in a cloud. [11:04] Dutchy Daredevil: quandi master nalates evi [11:04] Master Dubrovna: Hi Dutch [11:04] Nalates Urriah: Hi Dutchy [11:04] Cai Laval: ty [11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: hi blue [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: so hows everyone doing [11:04] Qandy Saw: just great, ty :D [11:04] Foxx Bode: -*- HeLlO-*- [11:04] Cai Laval: hey foxx [11:04] Qandy Saw: hey Foxx [11:05] Nalates Urriah: good... things are just slow [11:05] Master Dubrovna: A calm week for a change [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: tired - about to get caffeinated though [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: any improvement with viewer 2 links with the new robust? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya I think so [11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: wating for a pillow to sit [11:06] acryline erin is Online [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: i have a feeling that some of the old links though are very bad [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: like Qandy for instane [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the old junk might need to be fixed up [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: her current outfit folder [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: everytime she opened her inventory the sim would crash [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net: I found that logging in with Imp, I still have some attachments on from a different outfit. [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: until i cleared out her current outfit folder [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the best thing would be to wipe the folder contents - the viewer should recreate it [11:07]  Cai Laval: lol to much clothes qandy? [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, hopefully won't be a problem going forward [11:07] Qandy Saw: nuuu [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net: I will track that down [11:07] Qandy Saw: i never go shopping Cai [11:07] Qandy Saw: lol [11:07] acryline erin is Offline [11:07] Cai Laval: walk in ..inv [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Bluewall I have seen that occasionally too [11:08] acryline erin is Online [11:08] Dutchy Daredevil: ooops Hi qandi [11:08] Dutchy Daredevil: ltns [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I added an apperance show command ot the console [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net: I'm going to look in the Avatars table to see if it is in there [11:08] acryline erin: hi [11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: it thinks that richardus' baked texture is 'corrupt' [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net: ohh, good Justin [11:08] Sarah Kline: so inventory unlinking will work on osg [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably is BlueWall [11:09] Sarah Kline: enabled [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: have you ever logged in with Phoenix? [11:09] BlueWall Slade is Online [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net: no [11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: linking should work with the next osgrid distro [11:09] Sarah Kline: yay [11:09] Dutchy Daredevil: did you set it a few minutes ago justing ? [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: from what i have seen with that its usually because you have logged in with a viewer that supported multiple attach points on the same location [11:09] Dutchy Daredevil: justin ? [11:09] Nalates Urriah: My appearance goes wonky with Phoenix. [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: didn't you say melanie had a fixing link sometime back? [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: dutchy: set what? [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Linking prims? [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: er, yeah, link fix [11:10] Dutchy Daredevil: that command in the server console ?? [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: could someone look in the covernant stuff why it gets always lost so you get database error in about land. [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: what is the problem exactly? [11:10] Dutchy Daredevil: saw a huge red error list in there [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I can#t remember :) [11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: dutchy: I added it c ouple of weeks ago but didn#t publicise it since it's a work in progress [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: I dont recall melanie working on inventory anytime recently [11:10]  Hiro Protagonist: crap my computer is starting to make racket [11:10]  Dutchy Daredevil: thats ok just [11:11]  BlueWall Slade: kick the crap out of it [11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: let me dig out the user ml post - might jog your memeory [11:11]  Dutchy Daredevil: your doing great work [11:11]  Dutchy Daredevil: lol [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: dutchy: the command juts executes the baked texture check that is already done on login [11:11]  Cai Laval: som etimes i dont understand you dutch [11:11]  Hiro Protagonist: more like blow the crap out of it with compressed air [11:11]  Hiro Protagonist: its long overdue [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: it says whether the server is seeing that baked texture as 'corrupt' or not, but I would need to check the code to say exactly what 'corrupt' means [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya dont wait to long on that [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: take my word for it [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: but what it does mean is that nobody else will see your baked texture properly [11:11] Hiro Protagonist: lol I wont [11:12] Hiro Protagonist: probably do that tonight [11:12] Sarah Kline: for me its like last week here, the building is still not rezzing lol [11:12] Foxx Bode: aye. same here [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so your having trouble rezzing items from your invnetory Sarah? [11:12] BlueWall Slade: ++ [11:12] Sarah Kline: ok [11:12]  Sharp Hall: the building is rezzing for me, but slowly [11:12] Nalates Urriah: bldg finally rezzed for me [11:12]  Foxx Bode: loads but really slow [11:12] Sharp Hall: i've got bookshelves! [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: oh you mean the sim itself [11:13] Sarah Kline: yes sorry [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya its slow cause everyone logged in at the same time probably [11:13] Sarah Kline: k [11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: covenant mantis 5491 cant find the older one. no search in mantis ? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: also [11:13] BlueWall Slade: I dont' see some of the avatars [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: everyone logged in before scripts were done loading [11:13] BlueWall Slade: Neb - Justin [11:13] Hiro Protagonist: I dursn't see yours Blue [11:13] Nalates Urriah: Yeah... I thought I had crashed so I just immediately logged back [11:14] BlueWall Slade: I see neb now [11:14] Aaron Duffy is Online [11:14] Qandy Saw: all r fine to me but missing prims [11:14] Foxx Bode: yup, like the building :) [11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: I can't find the post, I'll keep looking on and off [11:14]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, my shoes and hair dont attach [11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: tehre's something wrong with your outfit somehow - your baked texture isn't uploading [11:15]  Qandy Saw: i cant see cuz my glasses dont rezz [11:15]  Qandy Saw: 8) [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: heh [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: sometime I need to write more code to see if we can pin down the bad item from the simulator end [11:15] Sharp Hall: what makes items bad? [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: here's the other covenant mantsi http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=2208 [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: sharp: could be pointing towards a missing asset [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: for instance [11:17] Sharp Hall: i see [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: hmmm... how can thing get bad now ? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: not sure [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: let me relog [11:17] BlueWall Slade: would a failed texture decode trigger it? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle, I don't think so [11:17]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm i enabeld http textures today to see if things speed up. [11:17] Richardus Raymaker is Offline [11:17] BlueWall Slade: that shoudl come after it finds the asset,I guess [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I wouldn't worry about it too much right now [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: oops [11:18] Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I seem to see quite a few ppl on the users channel having difficulty teleporting between osgrid and diva [11:18] Nalates Urriah: In the Snowstorm group they did a bunch of OpenJPEG testing and found 1% of texture decides were failing. So, some older OpenJPEG versions could still be a problem. [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: HG teleports? [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: awww. wright is loading so slow now [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think the sim is dead honestly [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: console is frozen [11:19] BlueWall Slade: earlier, I would crash shortly after getting here. [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: we're still here though [11:19] BlueWall Slade: about an hour ago [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: dead again [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: and I can move [11:19] BlueWall Slade: I see justin now [11:19] BlueWall Slade: lol [11:19] Aaron Duffy: One prim at a time [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you look frozen up in the air to me [11:20]  Sarah Kline: 19mins in and still rezzing [11:20] Sarah Kline: got floor now at least [11:20] Foxx Bode: :) [11:20]  acryline erin is Offline [11:20]  Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: i remeber me that 0.7.1 works pretty good. [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: oh cool console came back [11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: i hear people have problems on lbsa to now. [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: do you see me moving? [11:21]  Hiro Protagonist: yep [11:21]  BlueWall Slade: yes [11:21]  Cai Laval: yes [11:21]  BlueWall Slade: is the system loaded? [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: k cool it recovered [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: actually stats look great [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: cpu for this region is 89% of 1 core [11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yeah, system doesn't like your appearance for some reason [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: 43% now [11:22]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia [11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to look to see if we can improve diag code [11:22]  Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: i relog again with http off [11:22] BlueWall Slade: weee - we have floor [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: Diag code justin? [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: sim not loading for me [11:22]  Hiro Protagonist: diagnostics, instrumentation [11:22] Richardus Raymaker is Offline [11:23] Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:23] BlueWall Slade: justin, how about the module that adam started [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: what module is that? [11:23] BlueWall Slade: it is some instrumentation [11:23] BlueWall Slade: I thin kit uses snmp [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: I can't remember adam doing any instrumentation [11:24] BlueWall Slade: 1 sec [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: Teravus did some instrumentation stuff [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: there is instrumentation on the console but it's interpreting it and getting at the stuff that really matters [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i pretty much know exactly why things are bad today [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: in this case, I've no idea why people are receiving stuff slowly, might just be some network issues :) [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh? [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: if anyone logs in before scripts finish loading [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: the sim runs like shit [11:24]  Dahlia Trimble: is this sim loading for others? I only see few prims [11:24]  Hiro Protagonist: yep [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: today 10 people logged in before scripts were done loading [11:25]  Sharp Hall: this room is done loading for me [11:25]  BlueWall Slade: OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Framework.Monitoring [11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: the sim will never recover [11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: any difefrence now justin ? [11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: only fix is to restart the sim [11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: another thing to look at some time [11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: no [11:25]  Nalates Urriah: What if leave and come back, is it still screwed? [11:25] BlueWall Slade: I think it would ned a REST interface [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: yes Nalates [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: only way to fix the sim right now is restart it [11:26]  BlueWall Slade: -- as an option [11:26] Foxx Bode: whitestar posted some script on forum that denies logins until sim is fully booted i believe [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yes Foxx [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but it doesnt work well [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: regionready [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: justin, would be nice if i can test it with nebadon or you after the sim is restarted correct [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: 50% of the time it does not enable login [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: its as bad as the problem it fixes lol [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: we were having sims sit for 6-12 hours [11:26] Sarah Kline: lol [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: before someone would notice [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I don't think it's worth testing much until we have better diagnostic code [11:26] Foxx Bode: :) [11:26]  Sarah Kline: but the theory is correct [11:26]  BlueWall Slade: maybe we need an option for that? [11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: ok. it where shape you say ? [11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: or skin ? [11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: it's a bit more complex because script load is done async. but it should be possible to do sometihng [11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: this is the problem - I can't tell yet [11:27]  Dahlia Trimble: it really shouldnt matter if scripts are done loading or not [11:27]  Hiro Protagonist: rira is completely rezzed for me, and textures all look fine [11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no it shouldn't really [11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: weird. i dont see my hair [11:28]  Richardus Raymaker: and no shoes [11:28]  Hiro Protagonist: I do [11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: oh curious [11:28]  Hiro Protagonist: black prim hair [11:28]  BlueWall Slade: I guess the thing would be to find what cause the sim to hang if there is an early login [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, server now thinks rira's appearance is fine [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: i think all problems is because the login [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: wow :) [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: rira: could be. did you change anything or just relog? [11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: i just try to wear my hair [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: could be related to that [11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: still dont appear [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: I can see your hair fine, I think [11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: Richard seems fully loaded to me [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's fine now - wasn't earlier [11:29]  Qandy Saw: to me as well [11:29]  Nalates Urriah: and he rezzed [11:30]  BlueWall Slade: justin - you just appeared again for me [11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: seem 4/1 Mbit, is not fast enough ? :) [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: nah [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: nothing to do with your speed [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: no as nebadon says, might be some issue with script startup and login [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its because everyone logged in while scripts were starting [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it just clobbers the sim [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: and it usually never fully recovers [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its probably mono [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but who knows we could probably do better job at disabling sim log in until scripts are done [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: right now its just not possible though [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: region ready fails most of the time [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: very unreliable [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: did region ready use to work? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: it worked for a short time [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: i expeted logins where still disabled until sim is ready [11:31] BlueWall Slade: that uses a script? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: hang on [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll pass it to you guys [11:32] Hiro Protagonist: maybe it would be possible to run opensim in some sort of supervisiory powershell script [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: btw i have a region with 0 scripts on it, and ctrl-shift-1 says -39 [11:32] BlueWall Slade: so, if the script is reporting that scripts are loaded - becaus it catches the event - hmmmmm [11:32] Hiro Protagonist: heh [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: really, it should be possible to prevents logins until all the inital scripts have started. This doesn't strike me as an unreasonable or uncommon requirements [11:32] BlueWall Slade: maybe it is in the process of compiling whenm it catches it [11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: I think its something we do eventually need [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: especially since scripts take so long to start [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: this sim takes about 5 minutes and 30 seconds to start [11:33] BlueWall Slade: it should be directly in the simulator [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and has 1978 scripts [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: how would it know if all scripts have started? what if some scripts fail to start? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: well [11:33] BlueWall Slade: that script might be compiling whne it is supposed to fire off [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: once its done compiling [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: we do print [Xengine] messages on startup [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i guess once those stop [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you would know its done [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: avatar attachments dont seems to laod here for me [11:34]  BlueWall Slade: ther eis an event when the script engin compile queue is empty [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: does it recompile at startup? I thought it just loaded dlls [11:34] BlueWall Slade: well, it might not be loaded [11:34] Aaron Duffy: If the scripts are rezzing new scripted objects would the queue ever empty? [11:34] Hiro Protagonist: maybe when theres enough scripts, the system gets I/O bound and the comile queue empties [11:35] Hiro Protagonist: signaling a premature scripts have loaded condition [11:35] BlueWall Slade: maybe we could make it to send a signale out [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that stuff should ultimately be part of the simulator, not just a separate script [11:35] Nebadon Izumi gave you RegionReady v4. [11:35] BlueWall Slade: I'll look into that [11:35] Hiro Protagonist: +1 Justin [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya that would be great [11:35] Nalates Urriah: ...so a say lamp script compiles when the sim starts up? [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: having to run more scripts does kind of suck [11:35] BlueWall Slade: actually I was looking at it a couple of weeks ago [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, having a script rely on seeing if scripts are compiled is kinda broken [11:36] Nebadon Izumi gave you RegionReady v4. [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: sorry fixed perms bluewall [11:36] Sarah Kline: lol [11:36] BlueWall Slade: so, what if we register a uri that gts called when they are done? [11:36] BlueWall Slade: thanks Neb [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: would that be kind of like a scoreboard? [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I think there are lots of approaches. My initial favourite would be to provide an option that only enables login once the event has been received [11:37] BlueWall Slade: ok [11:37]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: there's an OnEmptyScriptCompileQueue event fired in the EventManager [11:37] BlueWall Slade: yes, that is good [11:37] BlueWall Slade: how about the TP routing? [11:37] BlueWall Slade: shoudl a fallbackl region get them? [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: I think script loading should not prevent logins. Maybe script loading should be throttled instead [11:38] Hiro Protagonist: Justin: if I am correct about the thread or system becoming bound, that event is an unreliable indicator. I favor that scenario because I've watch load go up on busy regions until scripts stop loading [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: that's an interesting quiestion. Ultimately, the region should only be 'online' when everything has finished starting up. But currently I suspect that is far from the case [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: there are any number of approaches, I'm sure. Buit throttling script loading requires a lot more work [11:38] Hiro Protagonist: and when the load goes down, the region starts loading up scripts again [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: i see load go up to when you start region and compile the scripts [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: I'm not sure exactly when the event is fired, that could be a problem in itself [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: It would be nice if it was optional [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: problem is dahlia [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: if you have 20 people logging in at once [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: no amount of throttle is gonna help [11:39] BlueWall Slade: something in the design is bad [11:39] BlueWall Slade: has to be [11:39]  Dahlia Trimble: maybe logins should be throttled lol [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: what happened today is there was like 10 people here [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: the sim crashed [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: everyone immeditaly relogged [11:40] BlueWall Slade: it's like a thread goes zombie or something [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: if its in the main thread in some loop then you see why its freezing [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: the sim was only 1 up minute [11:40] Hiro Protagonist: I think its a case of theory looking A-Ok but practice turned out to be quite different [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: it takes 5 1/2 minutes before scripts stop [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: login throttling would be interesting. You could restrict it to n agents at once [11:40] BlueWall Slade: could make it set the login level [11:40] BlueWall Slade: 200 ... 150 ... 100 ... 0 [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: well at minumum there should be a console command to disable logins (if there isnt one already) [11:40] Hiro Protagonist: that'd be a good way to handle a reliable event [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: there already is [11:41]  Hiro Protagonist: there is Dahlia [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there already is [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: and [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there already is an option to start sim with logins disabled [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: and what the region ready script is supposed to do [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: is enable login once scripts finish [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: which it did great for some time [11:41] BlueWall Slade: I'll look at tying the empty script compile queue to that with an option [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: then it eventually just stopped working [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, in principle it should still work [11:41] BlueWall Slade: that way we can test it [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: it does sometimes Justin [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunatly like 50% of the time [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it fails [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: and the event never fires? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: and the plazas sit for hours with login disabled [11:42] Hiro Protagonist: principal vs. practice ;) [11:42]  Dahlia Trimble: recompiling at startup doesnt sound right to me, I dont think it used to do that [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: until someone finally points it out to us [11:42]  BlueWall Slade: the script? [11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like a script engine bug in that case [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: probably [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: Xengine is well, not very good [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:42]  BlueWall Slade: think about logging in before they are loaded [11:42]  Hiro Protagonist: it tries very hard :) [11:42] Hiro Protagonist: brb [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: it works in general [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but in terms of managing threads [11:42] BlueWall Slade: ever try to touch an object that isn't loaded yet? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its absolutely wretched [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its easily overloaded [11:43] BlueWall Slade: it doesnt' wortk, becuase the script isn't loaded yet [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:43]  BlueWall Slade: the touch event is like the region ready event [11:43] BlueWall Slade: think about it [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: makes sense [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: border crossing the same problem if you do that before compile ? [11:43] BlueWall Slade: what is probably the last script in the region? [11:43] BlueWall Slade: it is probably the region ready one [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think you could ever predict what the last script was going to be [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: and generally no its not the last [11:44] Foxx Bode: the one that says "your sime took x minutes and x seconds to start " ? :) [11:44] BlueWall Slade: that event probably fires before it is loaded [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: it prints on the console when it fires [11:44]  BlueWall Slade: I usually see the same order [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: and its never last [11:44]  BlueWall Slade: ok [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: unless someone adds a script Bluewall [11:44]  BlueWall Slade: yeah [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: it could literally change every restart [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: or erases a script etc.. [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: I'll see about hooking it to a console option or something [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool that would be very nice [11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: foxx: no, that just occurs at the end of main startup [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: it used to be much much worse [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: we can see how that works [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: at one time [11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I think that working out why xengine doesn't always trigger the empty compile queue event properly would be the best move [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza with 1/2 the scripts it has now [11:45] BlueWall Slade: ++ jcc [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: used to take almost 20 minutes to start up [11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: my problem with console commands is there are too many of them and help scrolls way off and I can never remember how to backscroll in screen [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes, organization needs to be much better [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ctrl+a ] [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: i mis the get old command back on input line in console [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: That's how you scroll back? I doubt I'd remember that [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: also return seems to get lost sometimes [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: we need a | more commad [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: help | more [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: ot opensim still load data and wipes your command line away when you type. [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: help | less [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: does the 'rest' console still work? [11:47] BlueWall Slade: not really well [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: probably justin [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: having a console that doesn't share a screen with the logfile would be a start [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i think it shares though [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello. Was working on something and forgot my PDA beeped to remind me of this meeting. [11:47] BlueWall Slade: if you enter "help" or a wrong command youre done - have to start a new session [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: console doesnt show fill log tho, it trims long lines [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: *full log [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: the 'rest' console shows the log too? [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: it woul be nice if opensim dont write on last line from console [11:48] BlueWall Slade: would be good to be able to set the log level of each independently too [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: sim seems to be working well now [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately, yes [11:49] Nalates Urriah: SL is saying they will have the new format mesh viewer out Thursday and the format on the wiki this week. Does anyone know yet what this going to do to us here? Should we clear mesh off our regions and out of inventory? [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Blue: that would be nice. Another command to add to the help in console :-) [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: besides it still dont load my hair [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortunatly it took 45 minutes to smooth out [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon do you use 1.3.2 ? [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: no Richardus [11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks: new format? [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: i used the 10/23/2011 1.4 experimental [11:49]  Dahlia Trimble: Nalates, nobody knows. I'll try to make physics work with both versions if I can [11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: aha, that one dont have audio. thats why im back [11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: I don't think anything needs to be cleared [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i am in windows [11:50]  Nalates Urriah: ty Dahila [11:50]  Sarah Kline: stuff in your inv just might not rezz thats all [11:50]  Sarah Kline: mesh [11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: if you use a newer mesh viewer [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: new format meaning not using Collada any more? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is the stuff in your sim wont rez anymore either [11:51] Nalates Urriah: no... attributes in the mesh object changed [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: basically everything you have done to date with mesh will be useless [11:51] BlueWall Slade: I thihnk they are just making the tables a little leaner [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: you will probably have to reupload everything you have done [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: Collada is the input format for the viewer, and the viewer translates it. Its the format that its translated into that is changing [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: the way in which the vuser manipulates mesh data changes as well [11:51] Sarah Kline: just change and reupload it [11:51]  BlueWall Slade: heh, I need to check the keyboard - it's not typing too good today [11:51] Sarah Kline: should not be lost work [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder if that will make it work with more mesh files [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: it sounds like it won't be a case of uploading a mesh texture any more and draping that over a cube. It sounds like meshses will become first class objects [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: anything you have already uploaded will be lost [11:52] Sarah Kline: yep [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: Justin thats already done [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: you; [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: they did that weeks ago [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: oh ok [11:52]  acryline erin is Online [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: no more Mesh folder [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: or Mesh asset type [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey nods [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: have you tried the new viewer with opensim? [11:53] acryline erin is Offline [11:53] Nalates Urriah: The revised mesh viewer isn't out yet [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:53]  Dahlia Trimble: new viewer works ok on my standalone but not on osgrid [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: now I'm confused [11:53] Milton Carfield: Hello Nebadon Izumi [11:53] Milton Carfield: Please add me need to talk to you. [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: my appearance totally fails with any V2 viewer on osgrid [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: just Im me then milton [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: dont need to be on friends list to do that [11:54] Nalates Urriah: The viewer with the new mesh format is supposed to come on Thursday [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:54]  Aaron Duffy is Offline [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we'll have to see about getting that fixed as soon as possible [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i dont really know if we actually need to make any changes [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno. I'm inclined to wait until it's actually rolled out :) [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we will have to wait until the viewer is out [11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that's just me [11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, rolled out on the linden grid [11:55]  Sarah Kline: good idea justin [11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: you mean next year? [11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey winks [11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:55]  Sarah Kline: oh [11:55]  Sarah Kline: ) [11:55] Nalates Urriah: There is a viewer out with mesh code merged in and some are having problems with it. [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: justin, did you got my mail btw ? [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes. hope to tak ea look towards end of week [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: at best we'll see mesh on the main LL grid by end of this year [11:56] Milton Carfield: Ok I would like to talk another time, and on the island that I created beside her, and fou removed without warning, let me know if I broke into restricted area of the simulated [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: spend some time bug fixing [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: but it likely wont be anytime before then [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks wonders if nebadon will test out the new viewer to see how many files can be uploaded successfully this time [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: ok, hope you see it to. [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: you mean mesh? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: well I have sorted all the good mesh i have into a seperate foldder [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i have things preetty well organized on what works and what doesnt [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: here it comes... :) [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, they probably broke it now so the good ones may not load any more ;-) [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect what works and what wont work wont change [11:57] Milton Carfield: I Created the shopping Carfields, but was removed, let me know if you have loal here that can not be created islands [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: they are just removing feilds that are not used [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, we do hope [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and reordering things [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: most of the stuff i have that fails [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: usuaully just crashed the viewer before it even gets a chance to upload it [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: before it even gets converted [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: oh [11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: BTW, I have a question about OpenSimDefaults.ini [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: one minute left! [11:59] BlueWall Slade: hurry [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'll be quick. :-) [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: In the defaults file it says: Include-modules = "addon-modules/*/config/*.ini" [11:59]  BlueWall Slade: yes [11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: The .ini files are in a sub-directory of addon-modules?? [11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: That isn't what I expected from the README in addons. [12:00]  BlueWall Slade: you can place ini files for your private code there [12:00]  BlueWall Slade: it will pick them up [12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure it is. [12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: README doesnt' say anything about that, probably should be in there [12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe a bug then - I've never tried that mechanism myself [12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: I put files in addon-modules and they didn't seem to get picked up. [12:00]  BlueWall Slade: I can look at it [12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: k, ty [12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks: Not a big deal. I just left the config's I needed in OpenSim.ini [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go. See you guys around. [12:01] Sarah Kline: bye justin [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: see ya justin [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps addon-modules/*/*.ini [12:01] Foxx Bode: bb [12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey waves [12:01] Dutchy Daredevil: *-* Mmm ByE ByE *-* [12:01] Dutchy Daredevil: justin see you next week [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: cYA, JUSTING [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ops [12:01] BlueWall Slade: that is supposed to pickup private ini's so you dont' need to place anything in the OpenSim.ini