Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19

[11:07] Ogeywon Stromfield: im just siting in to see what i missed this last month i have been away [11:08] Jak Daniels: hmmm.... two people here are missing from radar and have no names above them, only group name [11:08] Jak Daniels: ubit and vegaslon [11:09] Jak Daniels: now they just appeared.... strange [11:10] Ubit Umarov: minimap as slower update rate [11:10] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev       9b4e83c: 2016-07-17 16:21:37 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:10] Jak Daniels: does that affect tags and radar too? [11:10] Ubit Umarov: yeap that is radar [11:11] Jak Daniels: ok [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Are any of the Kokua viewer devs testing it under Linux with a desktop running with multiple workspaces? I often get a viewer crash when switching between workspace. [11:11] Ubit Umarov: ( err not the tags above our heads) [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't know what Nicky does [11:11] Jak Daniels: they were affected as well [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL last TPV developer meeting was interesting [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. I'll track down the crash logs of the viewer one day and see what it say. [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they basically say they cannot put any more effort into a Linux version of the viewer [11:12] Ubit Umarov: ll said that long ago i think [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: + they will replace voice with a completely new version that is not compatible with Linux [11:13] Ubit Umarov: oh that is clever :) [11:13] Jak Daniels: more proprietary voice codecs then possibly? [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it sounds like Virvox will block any viewer that does not use the new client version [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Why have they decided to cut off Linux users? [11:13] Ubit Umarov: guess linux is fading out for corporations [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: too much effort [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so this may affect all OpenSim version of vivox too [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Are they going to drop support for Mac users as well? [11:14] Ubit Umarov: linux failed to get a market share on desktops etc [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nope [11:14] Ogeywon Stromfield: i was thinking of moving all my grids to Linux now not so much [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac users are about 15 % or their user base, developers are 25% Mac users. Linux is less than 1% [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Not all that much difference between Mac and Linux in terms of code as OS X is a *nix type OS. [11:14] Jak Daniels: where your grid is hosted will not make a difference [11:15] Ubit Umarov: Oge servers side is another issue [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: very much difference [11:15] Ogeywon Stromfield: ok [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: app proper applications on MacOS is coded in Objective-C or now Swift [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the C++ portion of the viewer code is a BIG inhibitor to make a proper version for the Mac viewer [11:16] Ubit Umarov: ( but seems mono is getting worse on linux also ?? ) [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh? They think Linux support is too much work but have changed to a different programming langugage for viewer development?? [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ... which is why all the Mac viewers use frameworks that Apple deprecated 6 major operating system versions ago [11:16] Ubit Umarov: they changed the language?? [11:17] Ubit Umarov: the can't do that on secondlife viewers [11:17] Ubit Umarov: only on the new thing possible.. [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a Mac viewer will have to be rewritten in Obj-C and/or Swift [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but then it can also be compiled for the iPad at least [11:17] Ubit Umarov: c++ is not excuse at all [11:18] Ubit Umarov: everything is c++ under the hood [11:18] George Equus: Vivox keeps crashing on my Win 8 system with latest FS 64bit. Began 6 months ago or so, out of the blue. [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL and Vivox will bring out a completely new version of the code [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have suggested it might run on Wine on Linux [11:19] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: time for Mumble/Murmur for OpenSim? [11:19] Jak Daniels: is that due to the different underlying audio APIs for win, mac and linux? (with the linux one never really stable) [11:20] Ubit Umarov: uff how silly all those distros actually killed linux for normal users [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would not think the APIs is too much of an issue [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably ROI - vivox is a commercial company after all [11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: So LL finds yet another way to alienate some of their users and drive them away. [11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its not apis,,, or language .. is plain market share gavin.Hird [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you could say that :-) [11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no market why spent time coding for it ? [11:21] Sheera Khan: well, I'm using Linux since about 1996 and I've never had bad problems with sound in VW in the past 7 years ... [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-( [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for sansar there will only be a Windows client [11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: With that attitude I won't expect to see any Linux support for their new grid system. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I am not sure what they are on to [11:22] Sheera Khan: too bad for Sansar ... [11:22] Unknown UserUMMAU42: but the linux audio subsystem keeps changing over time, there's no real standard [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: old phil was the opensource guy at sl... guess all left now [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Sansar is all closed source [11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so tpvs will be out of the game also :) [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is all very fluid right now [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no TPV for Sansar [11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: mb we get a bit more of their attention then ? :) [11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I wonder what this may mean for TPVs for use with OpenSim. [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TPV attention? [11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ll still keeps the lie that SL will go for ever ? [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Viewer devs already have to deal with differences between SL and OS. if that divide gets a lot wider the developers of a viewer may have to decide which system they want to continue to support. [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: My thinking is that once Sansar gets to 1.0 SL will be closed [11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah i think that also [11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods [11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but till then they need to keep the lie on [11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It would make sense. Why would they want to continue supporting SL once they have Sansar. [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you got that right Ubit [11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: sure they will have a migration scheme i guess [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no migration scheme [11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: nahh if they are good, they will have one [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no content can be moved [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only your name and purse [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they can't loose the clients [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: at not all of them [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they want to loose the client [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: at least not all [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL basically hates their userbase [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they do? [11:28] Sheera Khan: hihihi - and vice versa so it seems at times ^^ [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well they are paying it all :) [11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: They can have Sansar and not have to worry about users at all if they are going to ill treat everyone. [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are longing to get rid of the smut, the child avatars, the entitlement, all the fuzz [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so i think they will have some kind limited or not migration [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( so money keeps getting in ) [11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I wonder what Sansar will use for scripting [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I understand it Sansar will be a platform for others to make canned experiences [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: C# [11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It will have to be locked down a bit so as to avoid possible security issues. [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from the last Ebbe briefing there will not be any user created content [11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What? [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: everything will have to be created outside and uploaded [11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, you mean no inworld created content. [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so no in-world created content [11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's ok as long as they aren't going to force people to need Maya. [11:32] Ogeywon.Stromfield @hg.osgrid.org: whats the point of Sansar then [11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in-world creation is a big performance issue [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Maya is the reference platform [11:32] Unknown UserUMMAU42: build tools just limited to placing and moving content around then? [11:32] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: Guessing it will be something like create a level for a game. You upload it to the server and the users download it as they come in. [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from what he said initially even moving stuff would be difficult [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but would eventually get there [11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If Maya is the reference platform who are they expecting to build anything for it? That is a *very* expensive program. [11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap precooked and optimized content as on a game level [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: Andrew they only want pros [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the good thing is of course that openSim could see a lot of refugees [11:34] Unknown UserUMMAU42: oh, so a 'space' has to built in its entirety and upload as one mesh then? [11:34] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: no it can be multiple meshes [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, Jak [11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Why would "pros" bother with it. If they have that type of program they would have better things to do with it. [11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: normal ppl make bad unoptimized things that impact negatively on the product [11:34] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: would be a bunch of meshes and texture and then a level file [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TBH, I am not sure what the business model is for them [11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: people also made bad mesh objects. [11:35] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: tell me about it :p [11:35] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: I bet they will have a entire experience vertex limit. [11:36] Unknown UserUMMAU42: and possibly a texture limit too [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you desining for the Rift, you must be on a tight budget [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I could toss a 6Meg Millennium Falcon model at them and see how they handle it. [11:36] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: or just a entire level package file size limit [11:36] Ogeywon.Stromfield @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it they want more than 60fps full 3D they can't have non optimized content [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Rift needs 90 [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to avoid motion sickness [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will be interesting to see if there is any market at all for it [11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bottom line is that all the things LL is doing may wind up giving OpenSim based grids a boost when people leave SL. [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: content compatibility [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same concept [11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods [11:39] Ogeywon.Stromfield @hg.osgrid.org: can OSG handle that many [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: NO [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not in one instance [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe a 1000 connected grids [11:39] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: how many users SL actually has now? [11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It will free the OpenSim and TPV developers to change things at both ends to make changes and add features without having to worry about compatibility with some other system. [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: concurrency on SL is between 17k and 55k at any time of the day [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have about 950k active users [11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: To bring things back to OpenSim for a bit perhaps Ubit can give us an update on how the inventory issue he was working on this past week. [11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, how did the testing go on the changes you were making? [11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well i was messing up http .. [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: only did a few minor changes on inventory... cleanup basicly [11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and region side [11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: From what I saw of the development and testing you were doing, you have improved (ie. reduced) the loading time for inventory? [11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: what i see on inv its a pain slow osg response [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is that specific to OSG? [11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: there was a code change that made no sense in win.. but may mean something on mono [11:45] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seems it did speed up it a bit on linux regions.. [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am on the change before c9bd6f [11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i'm only testing here at osg [11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm only running regions in Linux when using my standalone [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is loading inventory slower [11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: tons of slow requests :) [11:47] Sheera Khan: yes I see those too [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can see it on initial login that the built in AO fails to initialize, and the avatar looks like threading water [11:48] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: avatar likes to have the COF now [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: COF = ? [11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: COF? [11:48] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: current outfit [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and I am pretty sure Diva did some changes in 0.8.2 to speed that up [11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: those are on 0.9 [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: after she made some radical changes to inventory loading [11:50] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: I have tons of slow requests as well... [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the most current version is slower than a week ago [11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they are on 0.9... get multiples things on each request to grid [11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: before is was a folish one at a time request [11:52] Sheera Khan: HTTP should ease that as you can make a persistant connection like it is in a webserver [11:52] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so each viewer request now means one or 2 to the grid and not tons [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most grids don't serve content over http [11:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no there is a limit on how many connections a server ( grid for example) can have [11:53] Sheera Khan: yes but since LL is switching to http I guess we have to follow suit in near future ... [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the more I think about it, the more I think that serving content from a single point over http is a disaster for a distributed grid like OSG [11:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: opensim does grid requests using http [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in many cases you have to drag the content half around the world [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from the asset server [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: while most users will be local to the region server they are on [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mening the delivery path is much shorter [11:54] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well at least assest are cached on a region [11:54] Sheera Khan: that's where the region caches should be helpful [11:54] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( not inventory for obvius reasons :) ) [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the region cache does not serve anything http [11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it doesn't ? [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think so [11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: of course it does [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why is that of course [11:55] Sheera Khan: oh? [11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you ask for a mesh or text, it cames from the local cache [11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if there of course [11:55] Sheera Khan: we were told different last time [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer will load content from the inventory caps url [11:56] Sheera Khan: at least as far as I got it ... [11:56] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: you can setup a region to request directly to the asset server but that was only done for the oscc regions [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if that is a http url, it will go back to the asset server [11:56] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: path checks:  viewer cache - region cache... grid assets [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some will be cached from the viewer cache [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but not the region cache [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am reasonably sure this path is for UDP only path checks:  viewer cache - region cache... grid assets [11:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: http also [11:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it's on the region assets find code.. doesn't matter if udp or http [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the http address of the region cache? [11:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: what http address ? [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to get the content from the local region cache [11:59] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: there is no address [11:59] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: when you ask for a mesh, region tries to get it from the cache, before asking to grid [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the viewer with http content goes to viewer cache, then to http asset server [12:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viewer should not go to asset server, but to region.. that is the normal thing [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is one of the big changes in the viewer code that LL has implemented [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is in all FS and latest Kokua [12:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that is not used on opensim ( unless you change some options ) [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Alchemy too [12:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: nopes.. in normal configurations assets came from the region [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when the viewer is told via caps that inventory is served via localhost, your path is correct [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that was how it used to work always [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when the viewer get a http address for inventory it does not query the region server [12:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you change that you loose the region cache and only stress grid [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is the resopn why OSGrid is so slow [12:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not sure it's a good option for normal grids.. but well.. [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because as more and more viewer go directly to the http asset server [12:03] Unknown UserUMMAU42: It makes sense for LL I guess - moving load off the region servers onto a mega asset server CDN [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it increase the load on it [12:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: default is using localhost [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: default is using localhost [12:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap it does at sl [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but you cannot serve http content via localhost [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you set a http address in Robust [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that the viewer will query [12:04] Sheera Khan: which setting do we talk about exactly? Is it in OpenSim.ini of the region? [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lemme check [12:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: on robust you need to tell the access points for regions, eventualy viewers.. [12:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: imo with current robust, viewers should stay out of grid.. but never actually tested [12:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it is a none sense.. [12:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: using regions means a load distribution [12:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: SL has a akamay or whatver the name cache near everyone [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in OpenSim,ini [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have 2 settings [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Cap_GetTexture = "http://assets.xmir.org:8010/CAPS/GetTexture/" ; Cap_GetTexture = "localhost" Cap_GetMesh = "localhost" [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if these two are set to a http address and not localhost [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will always go to that address to get any content [12:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that was your choice [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if set to localhost, the old mechanisms will work [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it will be served via the region cachem [12:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: "old" ? whatever [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes old [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: remember there has been a massive change in viewer behavior over the last year [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as everyone has scrambled to implement LLs http code [12:10] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev       9b4e83c: 2016-07-17 16:21:37 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [12:10] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that made sense if you do have a big professional http service grid side [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in that code does not get anything from the region server [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they will turn the old behavior off in their infrastructure in early Q4 [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so when the viewer sees on OSGrid a http address for textures and mesh in the caps, it goes to the OSG asset server for eveything [12:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viewers handle both now [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewer default to http [12:12] Unknown UserUMMAU42: is that how OSG is currently setup? [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now [12:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and will need to keep doing that to work on opensim [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why we have split the Kokua code to keep it so [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the LL viewers will only use http [12:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: http? what a mess [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [12:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we are not talking about udp versus http [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they will turn off UDP in 4Q [12:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we are talking about http [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all content served from the region host is UDP in OpenSim [12:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and if http uses region or goes directly to grid [12:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and i'm telling you that by default it uses region [12:14] Unknown UserUMMAU42: is that fixed in the viewer when the CAP is localhost? [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes it is [12:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you change that.. that is your thing [12:15] Ubit Umarov: may be better... most likely NOT [12:15] Ubit Umarov: unless you have special needs or something a lot better than Robust [12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the lastet viewers have http set for all content as default [12:16] Ubit Umarov: WHO IS TALKING ABOUT UDP ?? [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer does not get any content from the region host (cache) unless over UDP [12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the viewer is set to load textures and content over http, it goes directly to the asset server [12:17] Ubit Umarov: you are wrong and i don't want to waste more time on this anymore [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no I am not [12:18] Ubit Umarov: use the default config and see [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what default config [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer defaultconfig is now http [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to get going. If you want to keep the meeting going a bit longer, please do so. Sheera is still logging the meeting. [12:19] Ubit Umarov: ... [12:19] Ubit Umarov: Cap_GetTexture = "localhost" Cap_GetMesh = "localhost" [12:19] Ubit Umarov: ... [12:20] Ubit Umarov: don't mess with that unless you understand what you're doing.. [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, that is the OpenSim default [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OSgrid does not run like that [12:23] Jak Daniels: I have Cap_GetMesh = "localhost" and Cap_GetTexture = "localhost" in my Opensim.ini s on my OSG regions [12:23] Ubit Umarov: that is the normal default, that osg also uses [12:25] Ubit Umarov: see http://download.osgrid.org/OpenSim.ini.txt [12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has that been changed for 0.9 [12:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as the default for OSgrid? [12:26] Ubit Umarov: i don't make the osg configs... ask dan [12:27] Ubit Umarov: just dont remember osg ever having other option on that [12:27] Jak Daniels: they're set to localhost in the current opensim.ini version downloadable from OSG [12:27] Ubit Umarov: bc doesn't make much sense with robust [12:27] Ubit Umarov: it is not a very fast http server [12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Direct_Service_Requests [12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a lot of people changed after JustinCC write this [12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so that rather than localhost, they configured the caps with http [12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: going directly to the asset server [12:28] Tannoy OSgrider: without all set in viewer to http inventory never loaded at SL or here for me [12:29] Ubit Umarov: yes that option is avaiable [12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL will not load without http set [12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it still will to a certain extent [12:30] Ubit Umarov: i'm not speaking about udp... only http... udp still works in opensim [12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes Ubit, but the UDP support is being removed in the code base [12:30] vegaslon plutonian: just looked at a osgrid region.ini from 2013 and it was set localhost then too. [12:30] Ubit Umarov: and some viewers to backoff to udp if http fails [12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why we have split Kokua so we can preserve UDP support [12:31] Ubit Umarov: but that is another issue :) [12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the SL version of Kokua will not have UDP support [12:31] Ubit Umarov: well we do suport http now [12:31] Ubit Umarov: ( udp js just a safe thing to keep when we mess up http ;) ) [12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you try to use the LL http code to access OpenSim grids, the viewer crash pretty fast after initial login [12:32] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and that is HTTP to the region cache as I get it? [12:32] Ubit Umarov: regions try to cache things.. [12:32] Ubit Umarov: ( exception is inventory ) [12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the viewer gets localhost in the caps it uses UDP [12:33] Ubit Umarov: MAN that option is for the region!! [12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: also the viewer [12:33] Ubit Umarov: well whatever [12:33] Jak Daniels: Does the viewer use http if http_pipeling debug setting is on and the CAP is localhost? [12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is how the viewers behave [12:34] Ubit Umarov: i've it localhost in my viewers use http... [12:34] Ubit Umarov: if yours don't.. don't know [12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it sees localhost in the caps, all communication with the region host is via UDP [12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for inventory [12:34] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and assets? [12:34] Jak Daniels: in my prefs there is tick box for use http for textures and inventory [12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: assets = inventory [12:35] Jak Daniels: does that work with localhost CAP? [12:35] Ubit Umarov: assets != inventory [12:35] Tannoy OSgrider: so viewer doesn't respect settings for localhost? [12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it can't [12:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no functionality to get assets from localhost via http [12:37] Ubit Umarov: guess FS and singu have a problem them.. bc they work fine :) [12:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit what is the http address of asset server served via localhost? [12:37] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002:there is a http server in our region servers.... wouldn't the viewer just need an URL to that to get the desired assets from the region cache? [12:38] Ubit Umarov: if you set that option to localhost, viewer is told to get assets from the region [12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes via UDP [12:38] Ubit Umarov: http [12:38] vegaslon plutonian: http address would be something like "yourserverip:9000" [12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: UDP [12:39] Ubit Umarov: well i've no more time to waste on this [12:39] Jak Daniels: surely 'localhost' is just a placeholder name to mean local cache then region server... can the viewer not use the same type of call over http that it does to a grid asset server, but to the region server? [12:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Jak there is no functionality in the viewer for that [12:39] Ubit Umarov: on that opensim code is working as it suposed to.. [12:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the viewer will get the caps served to localhost, it will switch to UDP [12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all viewers since day one do that [12:41] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: well, but that could be changed now we know the region is capable of working with http, isn't it? [12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then you set the caps to a wellformed http address [12:41] Ubit Umarov: as i said ... [12:42] Ubit Umarov: [12:38] Ubit Umarov: if you set that option to localhost, viewer is told to get assets from the region [12:42] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: just theoretically: if I set that cap_-string to a wellformed URL it should work? [12:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can try it [12:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I never got it work [12:42] Ubit Umarov: rl calls [12:42] Ubit Umarov: have fun :) [12:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless it is set up like in that article I linked to [12:44] Jak Daniels: so something like http://regionserverip:9000/CAPS/GetTexture/ ? [12:44] Jak Daniels: or is that endpoint only served by robust? [12:45] vegaslon plutonian: or something like http://localhost/?texture_id=00000000-0000-1111-9999-000000000012 [12:46] vegaslon plutonian: localhost turning into serverip:9000 on most cases [12:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: well we would know if the server and viewer developers understood each other better ... [12:47] Jak Daniels: oh well, I guess I'm gonna stay confused about all that. Don't know who to believe now lol... [12:49] Jak Daniels: but at least they're talking to one another....:)