Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-22

[2014/04/22 11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hola [2014/04/22 11:02] dan banner: hey neb [2014/04/22 11:03] Sarah Kline: hiyas all [2014/04/22 11:03] dan banner: hi sarah [2014/04/22 11:03] lillith.xue @hyperfreedom.org:8002: hey hey :-) [2014/04/22 11:03]  Key Gruin: hey folks [2014/04/22 11:03]  dan banner: hey key [2014/04/22 11:04]  Sarah Kline: hi [2014/04/22 11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: hi all [2014/04/22 11:05]  Dev Random: Justin has been shopping. [2014/04/22 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I had to change out of my long johns finally [2014/04/22 11:05]  Mata Hari: lol [2014/04/22 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: haha [2014/04/22 11:05]  dan banner: ya is that hair? [2014/04/22 11:05]  dan banner: wth?!? [2014/04/22 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: lol [2014/04/22 11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: man, ,my system is not happy today [2014/04/22 11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: cna't reboot though since I've got another convo on the side [2014/04/22 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: so I am understanding a bit better what my mesh terrain issue is in Varregions [2014/04/22 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: very strange bug [2014/04/22 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: i have a bunch of 768x768 varregion neighbors [2014/04/22 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: and when i rez my terrain tiles which are also 768x768 consisting of 36 128x128m tiles in a linkset [2014/04/22 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the terrain pops up in the neighbor region when i rez it where i am standing, always to the north [2014/04/22 11:08] Sarah Kline: yikes [2014/04/22 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: if I type "force update" on my console it shows up in the region I am in [2014/04/22 11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: but if I then relog its back in other region [2014/04/22 11:09] Fairy Constantine: is online. [2014/04/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if I select and erase it from the nieghbor region [2014/04/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and type force update again its back where it belongs [2014/04/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and now its ok on relog [2014/04/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: this happens pretty much 100% of the time when there is a region to the north [2014/04/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: very odd, it only seems to happen with these large linksets [2014/04/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: never with smaller objects like buildings or prims [2014/04/22 11:10] posh prim: is offline. [2014/04/22 11:10] Sarah Kline: i have not tried linking my meshes [2014/04/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: well thats how they are when i upload them [2014/04/22 11:11] Sarah Kline: i thing too big in any case [2014/04/22 11:11] Robert Adams: it does sound like there are some checks for children not being made [2014/04/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/04/22 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: that was my guess [2014/04/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its wierd though [2014/04/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: other people see it too [2014/04/22 11:11] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev          a893fd9: 2014-04-22 10:19:11 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [2014/04/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: even if they are in different simulator [2014/04/22 11:12] Robert Adams: therare a lot of operations in OpenSim that first check to see if the requestor is a child... I must not be making such a test somewhere [2014/04/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: and only when i erase the one in the niegbor sim and type force update, is it 100% back to normal [2014/04/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: no matter how many times i restart the region or relog [2014/04/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: if i dont erase that prim it always comes back next door and the one where its supposed to be is gone [2014/04/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so its like there is 2 copies [2014/04/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its very odd [2014/04/22 11:12] Robert Adams: there could easily be different code paths for meshes or linksets or big things... the code is very special cased [2014/04/22 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: not an easy environment to recreate [2014/04/22 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i could supply the dae files if needed [2014/04/22 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i cant post them publicly though [2014/04/22 11:14] Nebadon Izumi: took me a long while to figure out what the heck was going on [2014/04/22 11:14]  Robert Adams: I'll scatter a bunch of "if (child)" tests areound and that will fix everything ;-) [2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: the odd thing is [2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: its only when there is a region to the north [2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: it always lands north [2014/04/22 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: it can have regions east west and south and it never occurs [2014/04/22 11:16]  Mata Hari: if there's nothing north does it drop to the location it's supposed to go to? [2014/04/22 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: yep [2014/04/22 11:16]  dan banner: odd [2014/04/22 11:16]  Mata Hari: wow....that's really odd [2014/04/22 11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: very [2014/04/22 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: i do find the wierd ones [2014/04/22 11:17]  Vivian Klees: is online. [2014/04/22 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/04/22 11:17] Robert Adams: the directionality is an odd thing... probably due to some neighbor tests being distance and not topology [2014/04/22 11:17] Robert Adams: I need to revisit that logic [2014/04/22 11:18] christina wildrose: is offline. [2014/04/22 11:18] dan banner: anyone have any thought about how "show in search" can become unchecked? [2014/04/22 11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: I must admit, I know nothing about how search is operating here [2014/04/22 11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe andrew knows :0 [2014/04/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I doubt it has anything to actually do with search [2014/04/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: something with parcel settings in general i suspect [2014/04/22 11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: What's this about search? [2014/04/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: flags not propegating properly [2014/04/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you set something else or make a new parcel [2014/04/22 11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: hi, everyone. Distracted myself again after my PDA beed to tell me of the meeting. [2014/04/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and that flag gets dropped, that would be my guess [2014/04/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: this has happened in the past [2014/04/22 11:21] dan banner: another issue i have noticed when i stream music is if a regular user opens about land and clicks anything it often restarts the stream setting [2014/04/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: someone changes something or adds new functionality [2014/04/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: and the flags get whack-a-doo [2014/04/22 11:21] dan banner: which gets very annoying to have the music cut out [2014/04/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: I recall rencently there being changes to parcel stuff [2014/04/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: wasnt that you justin? [2014/04/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: something to fix multiple parcels [2014/04/22 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I fixed an issue where bad parcels were being lazily created [2014/04/22 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/04/22 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: thats the one [2014/04/22 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: there are too many possible race conditions for that to work well [2014/04/22 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: but that shouldn't have affected any flags stuff [2014/04/22 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: only reason I mention it is because i suspect this happened around the same time as that [2014/04/22 11:22] dan banner: ya this stuff was happening before the bad parcel thing [2014/04/22 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: in the general ball park anyway [2014/04/22 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/04/22 11:22]  Vivian Klees: dan is it any time that an edit in the about land the music cuts out? [2014/04/22 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i thought it was pretty recent [2014/04/22 11:22] dan banner: yes vivian [2014/04/22 11:23] Vivian Klees: it happens in in SL as well [2014/04/22 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its happening when music parcel is set or changed [2014/04/22 11:23] Sarah Kline: that normaly happens in SL, but only for owner? [2014/04/22 11:23] dan banner: and regular users with no permissions cant edit the stream but they can cause it to restart [2014/04/22 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: those parcel flag settings are tricky [2014/04/22 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: and easily screwed up I think [2014/04/22 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I know we have had similar issues like this in the past with other check boxes not staying checked [2014/04/22 11:24] Kentucky Friedkin: is online. [2014/04/22 11:24] dan banner: i think its related to the stream issue [2014/04/22 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: maybe some kind of serialization problem with the data? [2014/04/22 11:25] lillith.xue @hyperfreedom.org:8002: i have one similiar with windlight reseting to default on opening pacel-info [2014/04/22 11:25] dan banner: somehow users without permissions are able to reset certain things even without changing anything [2014/04/22 11:25] lillith.xue @hyperfreedom.org:8002: ;-) [2014/04/22 11:25]  Kentucky Friedkin: is offline. [2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: ah hmm [2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe ctrl+alt+v [2014/04/22 11:25]  dan banner: nope [2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: checks are failing [2014/04/22 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: happens even without that? [2014/04/22 11:26]  Vivian Klees: any changes in the about land usually triggers an update thus the music restarting [2014/04/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: has anyone mentioned this to Melanie? [2014/04/22 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, if it's consistent could even be an issue with the flag accidetnally not being copied or similar [2014/04/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: she probably knows a lot about theis stuff [2014/04/22 11:26]  dan banner: i can interrupt stream with a normal avatar just by clicking in about land [2014/04/22 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats not good at all [2014/04/22 11:26] Vivian Klees: that shouldn't happen [2014/04/22 11:26] Kayaker Magic: mantis! [2014/04/22 11:26] dan banner: no it shouldnt [2014/04/22 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie is probably the best person to talk to about this [2014/04/22 11:27] Sarah Kline: does not happen in SL except owner...just tried it [2014/04/22 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: this is up her alley for sure [2014/04/22 11:27] Sarah Kline: if owner makes any change to parcel stream resets (expected behavor) [2014/04/22 11:28] dan banner: for example if you turn on the stream here [2014/04/22 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: I am pinging her on IRC [2014/04/22 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: maybe you can explain it dan [2014/04/22 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: if she pongs back [2014/04/22 11:29] dan banner: what i get is [11:28] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss [11:28] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss [11:28] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss [11:29] Now playing: 4tThieves - the abyss [2014/04/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: is there a mantis? [2014/04/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: heh [2014/04/22 11:29] dan banner: as the stream is restarted over an over [2014/04/22 11:29] dan banner: no nothing yet [2014/04/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/04/22 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: hey robert, you still there? [2014/04/22 11:30] dan banner: i thought i'd ask about it first before opening one [2014/04/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/04/22 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: definitely open one [2014/04/22 11:31] dan banner: i could try it in avn too [2014/04/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and when melanie pops in we'll run it by her [2014/04/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya that would be good [2014/04/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: make note of that in the mantis [2014/04/22 11:31] Brother Burgess: is online. [2014/04/22 11:32] Brother Burgess: is offline. [2014/04/22 11:32] Vivian Klees: either it's firestorm or the god user? [2014/04/22 11:32] dan banner: seems its any user can cause it [2014/04/22 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: it sounds like some kind of server side check is failing [2014/04/22 11:32] dan banner: yup [2014/04/22 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: viewer should never be able to do that [2014/04/22 11:33] Vivian Klees: http://i.imgur.com/JjXLyPq.png [2014/04/22 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: /me coughs [2014/04/22 11:35] Vivian Klees: it had been that way ever since you asked to turn music on in the viewer [2014/04/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ?? what do you mean Vivian? [2014/04/22 11:36] Vivian Klees: the about land box being blank [2014/04/22 11:37] Vivian Klees: turned on music then about land [2014/04/22 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [2014/04/22 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: I thought you meant in the code itself [2014/04/22 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ok well hopefully Melanie has some insight, i suspect she does [2014/04/22 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have any other pressing topics? [2014/04/22 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: heh just noticed someone set the Swedish flags [2014/04/22 11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I've got two things I've been trying to work on (when I have some time). Can't search event listings using the ossearch module. Event markers do show on map. [2014/04/22 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I wante dto discuss the terrain heigh issue with robert but I think he might be afk [2014/04/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: nice [2014/04/22 11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I also still can not get inbound data from an external website. That's holding up several projects. [2014/04/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ah [2014/04/22 11:39]  Mata Hari: this past weekend there were several parties where there was a major problem happening with textures not being sent to the clients and the sim would almost grind to a halt [2014/04/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: IM him? [2014/04/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: that might get his attention with a ding noise [2014/04/22 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: the one that Dev brought up last week (mantis 7076) [2014/04/22 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I already have [2014/04/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [2014/04/22 11:39]  Mata Hari: trouble is I don't yet have enough information to give any sort of meaningful Mantis on it [2014/04/22 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: I may be worth recording perfomrnace stats - though unfortunatley I have no bw to look at issues atm [2014/04/22 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya it would be nice to get the capsule stuff fixed [2014/04/22 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its a complicated issue [2014/04/22 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm haivng difficult just getting bw to look at critical release blocking issues [2014/04/22 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: neb: capsule stuff? bulletsim? [2014/04/22 11:41] Mata Hari: another things that seems to be happening recently is people's legs getting stuck in "flying" mode but the rest of them animates correctly for whatever they're playing [2014/04/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its both Bulletsim and ODE [2014/04/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the avatar capsule is the shape that actually collides [2014/04/22 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: neb: these are historical issues? [2014/04/22 11:42] Mata Hari: related to height as well I think [2014/04/22 11:42] Robert Adams: what is the height problem you mention? [2014/04/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hey there he is [2014/04/22 11:42]  Mata Hari: well...capsule [2014/04/22 11:42] Robert Adams: I made some tweeks for height and it should be bettern [2014/04/22 11:42] Allexander Morgridge: hi [2014/04/22 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: and yes Justin, its been a lingering problem since forever really [2014/04/22 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: Mantis 7076 [2014/04/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its neer been quite right [2014/04/22 11:42] Robert Adams: is the avatar on terrain still off? [2014/04/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the only time its really been accurate is if you keep your height at 50 [2014/04/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: or ruth size [2014/04/22 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: terrain heigh storage was differently scaled over a short so now the max terrain height is 327.67? [2014/04/22 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: even in ODE [2014/04/22 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ooh that issue [2014/04/22 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i thought you mean avatars standing on terrain [2014/04/22 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: we talked about several issues like that last week [2014/04/22 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I was confusing the two sorry [2014/04/22 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: no problem [2014/04/22 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: /me 's stomach rumbles [2014/04/22 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I'm still looking at that sit patch [2014/04/22 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: having to understand all the details [2014/04/22 11:46] Mata Hari: there'me hands Justin a cookie [2014/04/22 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: but as far as I can tell, it matches what is actually the case in SL [2014/04/22 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks mata :) [2014/04/22 11:46]  Mata Hari: not too many before dinner though [2014/04/22 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: you sound like my mum [2014/04/22 11:47]  Mata Hari: :p [2014/04/22 11:47]  Mata Hari: and clean your room! [2014/04/22 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh gawd :) [2014/04/22 11:47] Dev Random: The other issue with heights is that the shorts appear to be overflowing. 327.68 = -327.68 [2014/04/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya we did to a bunch of testing on that sit patch, and I experienced no issues [2014/04/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: dan and Key did you guys notice anything wierd? [2014/04/22 11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: dev: I guess the naive approach is to say the data type should be wider, but that might not be compatible with the sl protocol or that might mean a lot more data storage [2014/04/22 11:48] Key Gruin: if I rememberm the sit patch made us lower [2014/04/22 11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't looked at the problem in detail [2014/04/22 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it will move you like 0.1 or something [2014/04/22 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: key: yes, compared to currently, partily because there was a bug in the last change [2014/04/22 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: which was in dec 2013 [2014/04/22 11:49] Key Gruin: just a diff in height, but no weirdness [2014/04/22 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool [2014/04/22 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: do you think it would be a huge problem with that small adjust? [2014/04/22 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: howver, afacit, this patch makes it match with sl, so it should never need to change again..... [2014/04/22 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i mean I know last time people kind of freaked out [2014/04/22 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but last time it was sooo much worse [2014/04/22 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it was like a meter last time [2014/04/22 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: personally I dont see it being a problem, especially if it finally matches us 1:1 with SL scripts [2014/04/22 11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: even without this patch, fixing the dec 2013 bug would make pretty mch the same change [2014/04/22 11:50] Mata Hari: yeah, was brutal.....had to go and redo sit targets for 100000000 furniture items [2014/04/22 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya and you might have to do that again now, but it wont be so brutally bad [2014/04/22 11:50] Robert Adams: so, do we need terrain highter than 300? [2014/04/22 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: you wont be underground [2014/04/22 11:50] Mata Hari: /me was just making a worm avi [2014/04/22 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I cant imagine so Robert [2014/04/22 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: my understanding is that some people have terrain above 300? [2014/04/22 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: er, no ? [2014/04/22 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: neb: no? I think dev said there was? [2014/04/22 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: im not even sure you could export terrain thats over 256 [2014/04/22 11:51] Robert Adams: if so, I can create a new terrain storage class... it's all subclassed now so a new storage and representation would be easy to add [2014/04/22 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: the sit change would be about 0.2m [2014/04/22 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: technically a terrain save should fail [2014/04/22 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: for anything over 256m [2014/04/22 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but maybe not [2014/04/22 11:51] Dev Random: there are regions on OSG with higher terrain. [2014/04/22 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: terrain saves should 256 greyscale [2014/04/22 11:52] Dev Random: terrrain save in terragen format works [2014/04/22 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 0m = black [2014/04/22 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 256m = white [2014/04/22 11:52] dan banner: makes sense [2014/04/22 11:52] Robert Adams: I can add checks to make sure it is not over 256... would restrict the overflow [2014/04/22 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: either that if we want to keep over 256 [2014/04/22 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: terrain save myterrain.png should fail and say terrain over 256m use terregen or something [2014/04/22 11:53] Robert Adams: the bitmap saves are 256, but RAW can be more, I think [2014/04/22 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: I can imagine one might want 256+ eventually if one wants mountains [2014/04/22 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/04/22 11:53]  Dev Random: ll raw can go to 512 IIRC [2014/04/22 11:53] Mata Hari: with var regions I can imaging people who might want more then 256m [2014/04/22 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: in a bigger varregion [2014/04/22 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i certainly wouldnt want to cut off realistic use cases [2014/04/22 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but any format that cant support over 256m should say so [2014/04/22 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: the trouble is, you can't always accomodate everything that sort of worked because nobody has been doing proper bounds checking until now [2014/04/22 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so we dont get endless support tickets [2014/04/22 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: particularly not if it's a huge amount of work [2014/04/22 11:54] Mata Hari: what's the range from Marianas trench to top of Everest? [2014/04/22 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/04/22 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats like 15 miles [2014/04/22 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: haha [2014/04/22 11:54] Dev Random: need to check for negs on load too... terragen can import them [2014/04/22 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: negs are another issue. I know what was said elsehwere, but I also know people using negative z myself [2014/04/22 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: which should never have been allowed to happen really, since the viewer has somie subtle bugs with negative z [2014/04/22 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: does save oars hadle that stuff? [2014/04/22 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2014/04/22 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: what format does oar use for terrain? [2014/04/22 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: raw? [2014/04/22 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: r32 I think [2014/04/22 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/04/22 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/04/22 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess it doesnt matter then really [2014/04/22 11:56] Robert Adams: I"d like to say terrain has to be above zero -- no negatives [2014/04/22 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: it might be good then if some of the formats that dont support those to fail [2014/04/22 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: instead of saving broken files [2014/04/22 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's fair - unfortunately ppl using negative terrain will just have to shift it all up, plus objects [2014/04/22 11:56]  Dev Random: or truncate to zero? [2014/04/22 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: if thats what indeed is actually happening, i dont know I am assuming [2014/04/22 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: which is possible with a few console commands. Though having negative z is intuitively nice as 'below' sea level [2014/04/22 11:57]  Robert Adams: shifting everything up is easy using OARs and --displacement [2014/04/22 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that isn't a correct interpretation of neg z [2014/04/22 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: ah yes, that too [2014/04/22 11:57] Dev Random: but if you shift it all up, your sea level doesn't match your neighbour's. [2014/04/22 11:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: true [2014/04/22 11:58] Mystic Moonlight: is online. [2014/04/22 11:58] Robert Adams: /me expects to hear from the people with underwater cities [2014/04/22 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: why would you say terrain has to be above zero. Because of viewer issues or something else as well? [2014/04/22 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they will be irate ;) [2014/04/22 11:58]  Mata Hari: ....setting a standard to 0=sealevel would be intuitive for sure [2014/04/22 11:59]  Vivian Klees: and there are those who do shift sea level for dams [2014/04/22 11:59]  Robert Adams: no reason against negative terrain except it will make all the boundry conditions and other testing easier [2014/04/22 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: if you dont want terrain add alpha texture on the terrain ? [2014/04/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: i remember before if you set terrain below 0 you would fall foreveer [2014/04/22 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt happen anymore? [2014/04/22 11:59]  Mata Hari: is that all handles server-side with the viewer having nothing to do with it? [2014/04/22 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: I cant say I have ever done a negative terrain [2014/04/22 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer will accept negative z but with some bugs [2014/04/22 12:00] dan banner: ya i dont think the newer viewers let you do that [2014/04/22 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: for instance, fog distance doesnt' work properly [2014/04/22 12:00] Robert Adams: I could make another terrain storage format that takes signed integers or somethings -- would take up a lot more memory and DB especially for varregions [2014/04/22 12:00] Key Gruin: I had a minus 2000 terrain a few years ago [2014/04/22 12:01] Robert Adams: in BulletSim, a ground plane is built at 0 so things won't fall forever [2014/04/22 12:01] Key Gruin: Region name: Deeper Than Shit [2014/04/22 12:01] ladyjo martin: is offline. [2014/04/22 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/04/22 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: appropriate [2014/04/22 12:01] Dev Random: neb.. after the meeting, try Titanic Belfast region ... it's at -50. [2014/04/22 12:01] Robert Adams: with negative terrain you could get below that... I'd have to decide on some minimum [2014/04/22 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, unfortunately I have to go [2014/04/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: will need to make some decision on negative tererain and heights before 0.8-rc1 though [2014/04/22 12:02] Mata Hari: bye Justin....don't forget to eat :p [2014/04/22 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I get to eat after another 1 hour meeting ;) [2014/04/22 12:02]  lillith.xue @hyperfreedom.org:8002: bye justin [2014/04/22 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks [2014/04/22 12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya [2014/04/22 12:02]  dan banner: laters [2014/04/22 12:02]  Dev Random: cya [2014/04/22 12:02]  Robert Adams: I"m running also... take care all [2014/04/22 12:02]  Mata Hari: I'm off too....new router finally arrived so hopefully I can get to my own sims again