Chat log from the meeting on 2021-06-22

[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:02] Kayaker Magic: Andrew is here! The meeting may start! [11:02] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ubit, Jamie [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:03] Bill Blight: Howdy [11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Andrew, Ubit [11:03] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody [11:04] Kayaker Magic: I have something for show and tell, and some questions about animesh on the server and viewer [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: What is that object, Kayaker? [11:04] Ubit Umarov: was amking minor changes on http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Connecting [11:05] Ubit Umarov: we had ols sl viewer instructions all over still [11:05] Ubit Umarov: old.. [11:05] Kayaker Magic: I'm building a one-prim animesh airplane. It is obvious how to make the gear move, but I was unsure about spinning parts. [11:05] Kayaker Magic: This propellor is not a separate prim it is a "tail" that spins! [11:05] Ubit Umarov: also http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Getting_Started [11:06] Kayaker Magic: I can change the speed by loading animations, like this: [11:06] Ubit Umarov: ofc it would be better if wiki was changed by someone that does type in english, not always my case ;) [11:06] Ubit Umarov: nice kayaker [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I like the white underwear in Step 3 Ubit [11:07] Ubit Umarov: i stopped at step 2 :) [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is as taken right out of a 1980 NATO catalog [11:07] Kayaker Magic: Here is my first question: When you change the speed of a child prim with that viewer side call, it keeps going [11:08] Ubit Umarov: child prims have no speed [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it has NATO classification winter, under, long [11:08] Kayaker Magic: That other viewer, Ctrl-Alt-Del had some experimental features like changing the speed of the animations. [11:08] Kayaker Magic: So I could change the prop speed without loading a new animation. [11:09] Bill Blight: animesh has no speed, it is animation driven [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ctrl-Alt-Del ? [11:09] Kayaker Magic: Is there a way we could do that on the server? Add a function that changes the speed of the next animation loaded, [11:09] Ubit Umarov: no nothing to do that [11:09] Kayaker Magic: so I don't have to have 10 animations to make the prop spin at 10 different speeds. [11:09] Ubit Umarov: animations are viewer side [11:09] Ubit Umarov: and nothing to tell viewers those things [11:10] Bill Blight: considering you can do this with regular prims/mesh sounds like trying to re-invent the wheel .. [11:10] Kayaker Magic: ctrl-alt-del was a vewer project that had a 3D mode for the Occulus Rift. [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh -that one [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I understand Occulus devices will show facebook ads intermittently [11:11] Kayaker Magic: I was thinking it could be done server side by over-writing the frame rate while sending the animation to the viewer. [11:11] Kayaker Magic: Then you could have variable running speed on avitars also. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: animations where made for avatars only [11:12] Ubit Umarov: and on that very restricted use [11:12] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, and making them for machines like this is turning out to be a pain. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: guess animation rate is glued to avatar "walking speed" [11:12] Ubit Umarov: animesh was just a hack on top of that [11:13] Kayaker Magic: There are a bunch of undocumented rules, like you'd better have a mTorso and mChest bone, or all following bones will be moved out of position. [11:13] Ubit Umarov: and on top of tha avatar meshes hacks.. [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think animations actually will only run at 24-ish fps [11:13] Bill Blight: I think forcing a change server side for animation and/or keyframes would make viewers explode ... [11:13] Ubit Umarov: oh? possible gavin.Hird [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I seem to remember that from a discussion earlier this spring [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL YT video [11:14] Ubit Umarov: what server side change for animations?? there is no API to viewers [11:14] Bill Blight: viewers cache the anim, at and play it as so, until the animation actually changes the viewer would have to be changed to accept a variable on animations [11:14] Kayaker Magic: No Bill, I can build two animations with two different frame rates, load them in the viewer and it does not explode. Just asking for a way to send one animation with two frame rates does not change what the viewer gets. [11:14] Ubit Umarov: just start stop basicly [11:14] Bill Blight: yes 2 diff anims, not the same anim changing rates [11:15] Ubit Umarov: animation are assets and those are immutable [11:15] Kayaker Magic: So you say the viewer would ignore the second send of the same animation. (That is not an explostion) [11:15] Ubit Umarov: so 2 dif rates on the bhv == 2 diferent assets [11:15] Ubit Umarov: since there no api to change animation internals [11:15] Bill Blight: even if you make 2 diff anims with the same rates, and same name, they would register as different assets [11:15] Ubit Umarov: not even priority etc [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, you have to do it with different assets [11:17] Kayaker Magic: Bummer [11:18] Kayaker Magic: OK, that is my question for the week. NEXT! [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: There were a few commits to the code repo this week but very few. [11:19] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question if there isn't someone else who needs a question answered. [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Mostly some assets were added. [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, amvans. [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but those were good assets... [11:21] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have been trying for 2 weeks to establish a connection to a new region I created on the OS Grid. I can't seem to find help on why I can't get the connection opened. [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, the commit doesn't say what they are so I have no idea what they are or why they were added. One would hope it is good stuff. :) [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: They are essential animations [11:21] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have an eero connected to an Xfinity modem and I have tried port forwarding on both. [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, you started with the ini settings provided by osgrid? [11:22] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes...I went through the page step by step [11:22] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: https://www.osgrid.org/helper_regions.php [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but did you sync your inis with the osg ones? [11:23] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm not sure I understand what that means... [11:23] Bill Blight: couple things I think right away, if the eero and the xFinity are routing you could be double nat'd, or it is possible your router does not support loopback .. [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, amvans said they used the ini settings from osgrid. [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure Andrew, but he still need to customize them for his installation [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, you are using the IP address for your machine that is seen by the outside world? [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as far as I remember, such as adding IP addresses, names, passwords, db connection strings... [11:25] Bill Blight: in the region INI you need to make sure you use the PUBLIC ip, ExternalHostName, is set to your REAL external IP .. [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, most of that will have already been set when making a region that will connect to the osgrid. [11:25] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Do you know which settings need to be customized? I can look again, but I thought that the process of setting up the software on my machine automatically did that because I had to give the installation my IP address. [11:26] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: It specifically asks for my machine's IP address as part of the install script. [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, That address needs to be the one that is assigned by your ISP, not an address of one of your machines within your local network. [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: your machine's IP address on the inside of the router is not the same as the public address [11:27] Bill Blight: to connect to the grid, it needs a real world IP for the ExternalHostName, not your machines IP [11:27] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok, that's a question I asked before and was told it needed to be my machine since the software is running on my machine. [11:28] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: So which IP address? The modem or the eero? [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: No, it needs to be the address assigned by your ISP. It will be one known to the router. [11:28] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok. I will try that. I still need to do the port forwarding as well? [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: People outside your network connect first to your router and then get forwarded to your internal network. [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: amvans, yes [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and that address must be nat-ed to the ip of the real machine [11:29] Bill Blight: there is InternalAddress and ExternalHostName, ExternalHostName should be your REALWORLD IP ... if you don't know that,  you can go to, https://www.whatismyip.net , and it will show you the IP address .. [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: If the IP address in the ini file starts with 192 or 10 you are using the wrong one. [11:29] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok. This is really helpful! [11:29] Bill Blight: except for InternalAddress [11:30] Bill Blight: that can be 192 or 10 something or whatever your router is handing out .. [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: I usually use 0.0.0.0 for Internal Address in the region ini file but I'm only running a local standalone and not a region accessible outside my LAN. [11:32] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I will try that and if I still have issues can I come back next week? I don't want to waste anyone's time with questions that are not appropriate for this forum. It's just that I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out and ran out of options. [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: If the question(s) relate to OpenSim they are appropriate here. [11:32] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Great! Thanks so much. [11:33] Bill Blight: Osgrid also has a meeting, I think on sunday, if you are still having issues, you can ask there .. [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a user mailing list and a user IRC channel that you can use so you don't have to wait a week to come back here. [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, Hm... I was thinking that gathering is on Saturday. I know I keep missing them. :) [11:34] Bill Blight: also osgrid forums can be a great help [11:34] Bill Blight: Saturday, yeah I think that is right .. [11:35] Ubit Umarov: ok back form rl phone :) [11:35] Ubit Umarov: from also [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I just checked my groups. It is on Saturday at 11am in Hurliman Plaza. I'm not sure if they are every week or not. [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: The related group is OSGrid Town Hall Meeting. [11:36] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Noted, thanks! [11:36] Ubit Umarov: the assets i added are animations that so far most viewers did ship with [11:37] Ubit Umarov: fundamental assets.. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: like walk, fly etc.. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: future viewers may not include them [11:38] Ubit Umarov: alos the special aim ones.. etc [11:39] Ubit Umarov: some of those are still broken on main osgrid [11:39] Ubit Umarov: this region like all 0.9.2 by default load all opensim assets into flotsam [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Whose next? [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tp-ed here with it [11:41] Ubit Umarov: but that is a mess [11:41] Ubit Umarov: viewers only ask those on demand [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, tp'ed here with what? [11:41] Ubit Umarov: well grid assets needs to have them [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was the wrong window, but if you look around there is a clone of me in the scene [11:42] Ubit Umarov: but osgrid asset server is not core, so does not have them [11:42] Ubit Umarov: at least for now [11:42] Ubit Umarov: outch a clone of you? scary idea [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, yes I see you standing outside this structure. [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I agree that IS a scary idea [11:42] Bill Blight: sees ya all later ... [11:42] Ubit Umarov: nahh that is a usa gavin.. not you [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bill. tc. See you next week. [11:43] Ubit Umarov: ( and young gavin ) [11:43] Ubit Umarov: cya bill [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TC Bill [11:44] Ubit Umarov: hmm what is the clone testing? [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... that other Gavin appears to have come from the mirror universe. ;) [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is the pre OSG 2014 crash Gavin [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, good. You got the reference. :) [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: never modded after [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I just saw some fast moving clouds go by in the sky. [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you look at the profile, you will see it is ancient [11:46] Ubit Umarov: (hmm amvans got help ? i was on phone ) [11:46] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes. I did, thanks! [11:46] Ubit Umarov: cool [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, it is about a day older than you. [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is a day older than me? [11:47] Ubit Umarov: ok and what is the clone testing? [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, your clone is about 1 day older. [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: That is like a chicken and egg problem. Which Gavin came first? [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but of course I faked that date on my grid, because the earliest run date I have for a standalone installation is in 2011 [11:48] Ubit Umarov: mrs gavin, his mother [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the OSG one came first [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: That would make you the clone. [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: correct [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is the clone of the other one made after the OSG 2014 crash [11:49] Ubit Umarov: is someone going to make a empire with Gavin clone troops also ? [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: before that I really don't know what my standalone avatar looked like, haha [11:50] Ubit Umarov: errr the clones where republic army first no? [11:51] Ubit Umarov: ok no star wars fans here.. [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:51] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:52] Ubit Umarov: about those assets [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: The time has gone by quickly today. Almost at the top of the hour. [11:53] Ubit Umarov: those 108 or 118 or something where the easy ones to list [11:53] Ubit Umarov: more maybe needed [11:53] Ubit Umarov: ( if viewers do stop to ship with them... ) [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: If they are needed why would viewers not ship with them? [11:54] Ubit Umarov: bc they decided so [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think we ship with them, but there is a reference to the animation UUID [11:54] Ubit Umarov: you do ship with them [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, won't that break something on grids that don't have the assets? [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will Andrew [11:55] Ubit Umarov: yes those viewers will not work [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well will [11:55] Ubit Umarov: the avatar will be in t-pose everywhere etc [11:55] Ubit Umarov: unless using a AO [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Wouldn't be the first time a software upgrade broke something. :P [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer will work, but the avatar would be completely immobile [11:56] Ubit Umarov: we know why the stopped shipping [11:56] Ubit Umarov: for them it is ok [11:56] Ubit Umarov: they always had those on gird assets also [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where is the source tree do I have the anims? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: it is on the VFS bootstrap files [11:57] Ubit Umarov: those *static.db2* files [11:57] Ubit Umarov: they did ship them on the assets cache bootstrap or initialization files [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never peaked inside those files [11:58] Ubit Umarov: they replaced that assets cache.. so .. they are gone [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have not done that yet [11:59] Ubit Umarov: they will not botther converting that to the new asset cache [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL viewer pulled that code [11:59] Ubit Umarov: when viewer can fetch them on demand [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so only the FS beta has it [11:59] Ubit Umarov: yeah fs 6.4.20 is the only one with that issue now [12:00] Kayaker Magic: I'm running FS 6.4.20, and this explains a lot of animation problems I am having. [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would think Kayaker [12:00] Ubit Umarov: and tp fails also :p [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at the top of the hour. If there isn't any last minute items it is time to wrap the meeting for today. [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe not be on the bleeding edge always [12:00] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I appreciate the help. See you again soon. [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Good luck, amvans. [12:00] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thank you. [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hope you get it working [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Good skill also! [12:01] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I guess I will be here next week if not. :) [12:01] Ubit Umarov: cya [12:01] Ubit Umarov: or be here even if works [12:01] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:01] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Or if so and I run into the next problem [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: You can come back here next week whether you have or have not fixed the problem. [12:01] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know...you guys are great. [12:01] Ubit Umarov: hmm yes we are [12:01] amvans.Lapis @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye for now. [12:02] Ubit Umarov: wee opps ego moment [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: On that note, I will call this one done and dusted. [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [12:02] Ubit Umarov: nahh nahhh [12:02] Ubit Umarov: you still need to dust the floor and chairs