Chat log from the meeting on 2013-10-29

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi is online. [11:00] Richardus Raymaker is online. [11:01] Robert Wood21: DNS, remote desktop [11:01] Robert Wood21: FTP? [11:01] Vivian Klees: hi Justin [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: doubt there will be a preset for 9000 [11:01] logger sewell: Hey Justin [11:01] Tiffany Magic: Hello Justin [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:02] Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: lucky.. i folloowed my nose :) [11:02] Arielle Popstar: Hi Rira [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: forgot the wintertime [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi all [11:02] Vivian Klees: time change is this weekend [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: It will only be an hour earlier this week for us Europeans [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: well. we just done it here [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: yes. [11:03] Arielle Popstar: would think time change wouldnt be hard to coordinate [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: i have only found 1 problem :O [11:04] Robert Wood21: i'm getting timely logouts from my sim, the server runs fine but logs me out after specific time [11:05] Robert Wood21: what to do [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: if you shutdown region clean, robust dont delete the maptile. http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6820 [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert [11:05] Vivian Klees: that might be the viewer [11:05] Robert Wood21: tried 3 to 4 viewers [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: is the logout a bit fixt time interval ? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: its possible it is something with your router Robert [11:06] logger sewell: we have ghosted regions with all viewers except the new cool viewer [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: stuff like SPI (Stateful Packet Inspection) and Packet Shaping can have strange effects [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: or DOS protection ? [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: logger. i have my own grid. well redoing it. because linux is not good the way i used it. but robust dont delete the maptiles. als after i knew that i could get soem tiles removed from other grid to [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yea that is usually SPI but some routers might label it differently [11:09] Robert Wood21: oh k [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: i just think when you move your region from rebust. it never delete the maptiles. (not implemented?) [11:10] logger sewell: ah ok Richard is see what you mean [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: wouldn't surprise me if maptile deletion on deregistration has never been implemented [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: i remove dthe maptiles from the robust aptile directory and the problem where instant fixt with wrong tiles [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: must be justin :O [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: hello robert a [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus; though I'm surprised new map tiles do not replace old [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: the do.. but the old one dont get removed [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: btw there's mantis about that one to from someone. [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: but how would replace not removed them? [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: don't they have the same filenames? [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6391 [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: old v2 map tiles do not get erased [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: my maptiles have coordinates as filename [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: we have a crontask here on OSgrid that purges tiles occasionally [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: so the chane when you move the region [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: they get regerenerated when region restarts [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: change [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: you didn't tell me you were talking about actually moving regio nlocations [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: i figured out nebadon :O. its beter if tiles get removed when you dereistrate the region from grid [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: Does anybody else see problems with downloading textures? [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: Ok. my fault... [11:15] Arielle Popstar: possibly as ome wearables i imported last week are white now [11:15] Arielle Popstar: some^ [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: i did add that as note justin [11:16] Arielle Popstar: running opensim 5be8f66 [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: ok. it's a pain to remove maptiles since you have to either have the grid service communicate with the maptile service or somehow have the smiulator do it directly [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya and the maptile levels are quite complicated too [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there is like 6 levels of zoom [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I have a bunch of textures seemingly waiting forever to download. though I have also recently updated to fs 4.4.2 [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: ohhh. the are split in the codee. right.. i have seen the amount of levels yes. [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: which most of the levels are a composite of several regions [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and then those composites can also be cached at the region level [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: so until everything gets restarted you might continue to see old tiles for some time [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: justin, but robust get the message this region is shutdown. but you know the code better [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: Restart dont fix it sofar i know. only manual remove works nebadon [11:19] Robert Adams: pretty sure the maptiles are not deleted when a region shuts down [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: so the only way then is tou run a process that check things with opensi database and compare it with the maptile names [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: 100% sure robert [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: i would say delete the maptile with region name when region get shutdown. but seems that need to be in maptile service [11:20] Robert Adams: the Simian grid service stores the maptiles in the filesystem... there you could just delete old files [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: and the different zoom levels is only io check when you delet. but i talk simple [11:21] logger sewell: our problem is when moving a region to another location we get the ghosts even when we do a complete server reboot [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: for v3 map, robust also stores them on the filesystem [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: logger, because the tiles dont get deleted [11:21] logger sewell: yes [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, really the grid service should ask the map tile servie to remove them on dereg, or possibly the simulator should do it directly [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: the latter would probably be simpler, tbh [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: anuway. its a problem i found and would solve many bad TP's [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm not sure how that affects v1 map problems [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: a tp is not going to be allowed to a regio nthat is not online, even if it has a maptile [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: i use singularity justin. and i could delete the maptile live. when the are all remove dfrom the region. i did not see them anymore. but need to recheck it the next time [11:23] Robert Wood21: i have running opensim on virtual private server but i cant tp to the region, any soultion ? [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: yes justin. but i mean i TP much on what i see on the map. [11:23] Robert Wood21: its win 2012 server OS [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: Robert, check your firewall [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: udp & tcp [11:24] Robert Wood21: firewall is off [11:24] Robert Wood21: for both private and public network [11:24] Robert Adams: do you get the dreaded "cannot create presence"? [11:24] Arielle Popstar: play around with tyhe location setting [11:25] Arielle Popstar: Home, Last location [11:25] logger sewell: @ Robert Wood are you trying to Hyper grid into it ? [11:25] Arielle Popstar: of the viewer [11:25] Robert Wood21: no just want to tp to osgrid region [11:25] Arielle Popstar: i am noticing on the one i am running that Home does not work [11:26] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds like network not configured properly or something to me [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know why, but I get the temptation to write a tool to probe the udp and tcp ports after reading from the regio nand opensim.ini files [11:26] Robert Adams: "cannot tp" could be many things... what error are you getting? [11:27] Robert Wood21: request timeout [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: just a simple python script to at least check all the right ports are open [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: There's one other problem. you maby readed. why do you not see maptiles when you HG ? [11:27] Robert Wood21: when i checked for 9000 port it said refusing connection [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: then that's your problem [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: Robert, try differnet port number. or its still blocked [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: your 9000 port is not reachable with the IP that you have in regions.ini [11:27] Robert Adams: +10 Justin... a tool that 'verifies/ the configured connectivity has been needed for a long time [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe router is not port forwarding properly [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: you cant just "Open" ports on the roter [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I might just knock up a really rough python script to at least poitn people to [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: they need to be forwarded to local IP in your lan [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: every router is a bit different [11:28] Arielle Popstar: what you have set for externalhostname= in region.ini? [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [11:28] Robert Wood21: well this is bit funny when i check ip in command promt its diffrent and on the whatismyip website its diffrnt [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm local vs external ? [11:29] Robert Wood21: may be [11:29] Robert Wood21: which one i shuld put for region.ini from command promt or feom whatismyip? [11:29] Robert Adams: 'timeout' usually means the viewer can't talk to the region... 'cannot create presence' usually means the gird service could not talk to the region [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: no idea;s why maptiles are not visible from other grids in viewer ? [11:30] Robert Adams: when the region starts it registers its IP address with the grid service [11:30] Robert Adams: when you TP, the grid service give that IP address to the viewer to connect to [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: Robert A, how is progress with the problems ? [11:30] logger sewell: Hi Dahlia [11:30] Arielle Popstar: Justin I would like to play around with the sit positioning and wondering where i would do that in source. Assuming it is in Region/Framework/Scenes/ScenePresence.cs? [11:30] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:30] Robert Adams: which 'problems', Richardus... there are many :) [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: cpu / memory useage [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, a never-ending cascade of problems [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: thats your main one sofar i know [11:31] Arielle Popstar: Hi Dahlia, dress looks cute on you [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: :) [11:31] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ScriptInstances uses throw new EventAbortException can these be encapsulated in a try catch, the exceptions are a pain when debugging under VS, works on windows, will it screw up on mono? [11:31] Robert Wood21: what wud be the endpoint for the trafic coming from osgrid ? [11:32] Robert Adams: reduced memory to 'usable'... some people with many regions in one simulator (especially 32 bit) might to be able to use BulletSim -- it uses more memory than ODE [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: yes, specifically HandleAgentSit [11:32] Robert Wood21: DNS, HTTP or powershell? [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: they are ain try catch [11:32] Arielle Popstar: ok ty Justin [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its none of those Robert Wood, there is not going to be a preset for opensim [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: aha. so you can betetr run 25 simulators on 1 system then 5 with 5 regions on it ? :O [11:32] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: not at present [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you will have to manually forward the ports [11:32] Robert Adams: the worst of the CPU problem has been resolved... you will see move CPU than with ODE if you have lots of prims (like > 30K) [11:33] Arielle Popstar: is there a particular reason why sits do not mimic what is in S/L/ [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I updated last night and tested my racer, its still using about 180%+ cpu [11:33] Robert Wood21: how i can forward port on virtual machine runing win 2012 server [11:33] Robert Adams: totally fixing the large prim CPU problem will take patching Bullet [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: Intressting info robert. [11:33] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: look at line 1040 in ScriptInstance.cs [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I get bazillions of "unable to mesh" messages, could they all be accurate? [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: Robert Wood are you running Openbsim in a virtualmachine? [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: Robert W, with virtual box the only solution where for me to add a second adapter in bridge modem in the virtual machien if it runs windows [11:34] Robert Wood21: yes [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that can get complicated, depending on what VM software your running [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: They are caught in ScriptIstance.EventProcessor [11:34] Robert Adams: your cars also had a script overhead problem, Nebadon [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if your using NAT that really complicates it [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: Nebdon i tried to run opensim in virtualbox (linux guest) but im reverting bck to normal windows.. no comments [11:35] Robert Adams: I will look into that again... I think there is some propblem with filtering of collision messages withing large linksets [11:35] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: VS breaks aou, say they are not being processed [11:35] Robert Wood21: its virtual machine from Windows azure account [11:35] Robert Wood21: the virtual machine is remote desktop client [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok, ya unfortunatly i have never used Azure, I have no idea how their firewall works [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: huh? [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: Azure is new for me. [11:35] Robert Wood21: ok [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: im pretty certain your problem is there though [11:36] Robert Wood21: its from microssoft [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: firewall not configured properly [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: isnt Azure kinda pricey? [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: best if you can set the VM in bridged mode [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its not a VM [11:36] Robert Wood21: firewall is off [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its a VPS [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: or its some cloud virtual machine ? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes cloud [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: ahh. sorry. [11:36] Robert Wood21: yes cloud [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: okay, I think I see waht you mean. They don't cause a critical issue but could probably be caught in EventProcessor [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: but.. vps have normally i Real ip [11:36] Arielle Popstar: thinks Justin may have passed out from all the questions ;) [11:37] Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I would suggest contacting the Azure support on help with configure the firewall [11:37] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: yes Justin, sorry for my poor terminology [11:37] Robert Wood21: so turning off the firewall is not solution? [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: i need to find a few resources for 1 region in osgrid.. :O betetr with testing. [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: hm, no actually I think they should be caught by the exception catch [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: no the windows firewall is not the propblem [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: Rbert, turning off firewall is neve rgood idea [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: is likely the VM itself, but its hard to say [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how they do itl [11:37] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Anytime debugging scripts with state change or script reset [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't mind questions, it's complaints that make me pass out :) [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:38] Arielle Popstar: :) [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: I only serve bugs justin :) [11:38] Dahlia Trimble complains about all the questions [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: if its anything like Amazon is a level of firewall / routing outside of your server you have to contend with as well [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks waves hello [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: are you able to add a catfch where you find it necessary? Would be happy to see a patch on that [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [11:38] logger sewell: Hey Andrew [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise would be quite some time before I can check things [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hello Andrew [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks forgot it was meeting day [11:39] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I add the patches to my local copy, and works ok [11:39] Robert Wood21: oliveira virtual lands in osgrid runs on azure [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: it's alright, I know you're trying to help. Sometimes all the bugs just get on top of me :) [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: soooo complicated [11:39] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: never added to a mono install [11:39] Robert Wood21: anybody know whos the person i shuld contact? [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: if you put the patch on mantis I can take a look at it [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: I know justin. sometimes make small programs myself [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks wonders what he missed [11:39] Arielle Popstar: ask Fernando thern. He is always helpful [11:39] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ok thankyou Justin [11:40] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: another question Justin? [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: sure [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon. can you not make asome avatr for just in the shape of paper pile ? reaching above the head. then we know the status :) [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Robert I dont know anyone who has run OpenSim in Azure, I am sure someone has but I dont recall anyone mentioning they have before [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: ha, seeing a graphical represntation of all the mantis bugs in -world would be neat :) [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: we might be snowed out of this room though [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: simudyne are [11:40] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: using an empty list as a bool, while(listthing), not working, works on SL. Is there any known reason? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ah cool, I really meant someone that Robert could talk to about it [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: I think deficiencies in opensim's lsl parser [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: lol [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure simudyne is very accessible in terms of helping out here [11:41] Arielle Popstar: Fernando [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: true [11:41] Robert Wood21: oliveira virtual land has posted its image on twitter [11:41] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: so a deficiency, not really a bug or something? [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: doesn't bug == deficiency ? [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I was interested to work on the OS parser but since it converts LSL to C#, I'm not sure I'm as interested. [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: is it documented to work? [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I would call it a bug which could be fixed - just the parser is a pita to work with [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: or the parser generator, rather [11:42] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: in some camps no [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: you might try contacting them then, he may be of some help [11:42] Robert Wood21: https://twitter.com/oliveira_lands/status/218527303108526081/photo/1 [11:42] Robert Wood21: ok :) [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: you would prefer it to convert lsl directly to il? [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: isnt that what is indirectly happening anyway [11:43] Arielle Popstar: Justin, my question was is there a particular reason why sits do not mimic what is in S/L? --when you have a moment :) [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, something like that if il means "interpreted language". [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: il is the intermediate language of .net [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew that sounds slow [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: conversion to an interpreted language would be worse than to a compiled one... :) [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, ah, ok. [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: If you used basic on C64 you know whay [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: why [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: I believe because it's complicated to do - you have to start ray-tracing the point where you should be sitting [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: The il would be something like how Pascal is handled. Compiled to an intermediate language. [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: And there was some grief last time we changed the sit position [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: pascal is nice [11:44] Arielle Popstar: is ray tracing working in opensim? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes [11:44] Allen Kerensky: raycasting works to a point Arielle [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: there is ray-tracing code, as used by llCastRay and raytracing to place one prim on top of another [11:44] Arielle Popstar: ok Allen...was reading that [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: One of these days I'll do more digging around in the LSL engine. [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know the llRaytrace exists. only never understanded that command [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. so that when you hit create on a prim surface it puts the new prim on top [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: afair all the mechanisms are slightly different unfortunately [11:45] Arielle Popstar: this would be used by the viewer? [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: llCastRay makes use of the physics engine I think whilst the ray-casting to build prims is native c# code... [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: no, it's all server side [11:46] Arielle Popstar: hmm ok [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: llCastRay is done in c# and only collides against bounding boxes [11:46] Allen Kerensky: yeah CastRay is an LSL bit that relies on the server to do the work to deliver the answers [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: so llCastRay is not very accurate [11:46] Arielle Popstar: my understanding from an s/l office hours a few years back was that viewers also had a part to play in sit positioning [11:47] Allen Kerensky: its pretty usable Dahlia - I have a maze-solver NPC that worked better than I expected [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: the viewer can do a raycast but Im not sure if its used in sit positioning [11:47] Allen Kerensky: It did have a problem finding the "floor prim" when it was large and linked to other prims [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Allen: I could put that to the text. I made a raw file that turned a region in to a giant maze. [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: s/text/test/ [11:48] Arielle Popstar: i did pl;ay about in opensim and noticed that moving the pointer to different areas of a prim affected the avatars sit position [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: they do give an offset [11:48] Arielle Popstar: the viewer? [11:49] Arielle Popstar: ok [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab. The cat is calling for me. [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: comes in via ScenePresence.HandleAgentRequestSit [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: may only apply to prims without a sit position set [11:50] Arielle Popstar: yes that is the part i am interested in [11:50] Arielle Popstar: ok ty all for the info [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: yw [11:50] Arielle Popstar: will do more research and play about more [11:50] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev         5be8f66: 2013-10-25 00:54:33 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:51] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Another meeting, thanks for the input. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Teravus is a good person to talk with as well if you have questions about raycast [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: so did you see the note I added to http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6814 [11:51] Arielle Popstar: yes noticed he was at the meeting in s/l about it [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: Not yet. not recieved mail. let me look [11:51] Arielle Popstar: was hoping he would have been here today [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Oh sorry yes that one i have seen justin [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: we just need to give robert some time to look at it [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: little bit computer choas here last time. try to configure / figure out the right setup. my worse enemy is the energy bill [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: my worst enemy is the windows 8.1 upgrade [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: haha that worked quite well for me [11:55] logger sewell: ha ha now that is truew [11:55] Arielle Popstar: better get some solar panels and convert those wind mills to electric generating ones [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Lol dahlia. i cant get the 8.1 upgarde. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: the only thing that totally broke for me was virtualbox [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: there's no download [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: the upgrade worked ok but now I cant get my fonts set up so I can read them [11:56] logger sewell: i put 8 on a backup to test with i really really hate that program [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: not 125dpi ? [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: it wiped all my custom settings from win8 [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: did you see http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6814 ? [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i had to totally uninistall and re-install virtualbox to get it to work again, lukckily all my virtualmachines survivided [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i love 8 desktop. its better then win7. shame MS screwed it a bit with modern [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks is still trying to upgrade his machine to a pair of 1TB drives. [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: oh you know i probably didnt notice anything like that cause i was running pretty stock configuration dahlia [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: that sucks [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: Well, nebadon. i cant find a way to install it. the iso i downloaded from MS dont accept the key bla bla. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: there is a patch [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: shouldnt be any iso [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: Anfrew. explain. whats the problem ? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the patch installs from the windows store [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: Nebnadon. i worl with local account. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: so do i [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I remember it took weeks for me to figure out how to get win8 fonts set up so I could see them [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it will still download from windows store no problem [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, issues with the bootloader and I can't get it to boot Windows on the new drives. [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: i refuse to use to windows store. its sill how the do the update [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: you dont need an account for the 8.1 upgrade