Chat log from the meeting on 2014-10-21

[2014/10/21 10:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, I could see the normal maps in the UV editor [2014/10/21 10:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Nebadon [2014/10/21 10:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but they wrecked the model in my sim [2014/10/21 10:50] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Yeah... baking normal maps and sculpting high poly is where I get the most use out of it. [2014/10/21 10:51] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the normal map should look like the texture map (UV) ? [2014/10/21 10:52] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: The alternative is to duplicate your low poly, apply a subsurface modifier, and then bake from the high poly version. But any major changes to the high poly one won't get carried over to the low one, then. [2014/10/21 10:52] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Yeah... UV maps need to be the same across all texture maps. [2014/10/21 10:52] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: You can do things like have multiple UV maps, and then bake from one to another, though. [2014/10/21 10:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: before it gets too crowded here ... [2014/10/21 10:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think I fond another perms loophole [2014/10/21 10:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if the creator of an object tries to edite it, he can [2014/10/21 10:53] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Oopsie. [2014/10/21 10:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: even if it is owned by onother [2014/10/21 10:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: you guys ever seen that? [2014/10/21 10:53] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I haven't, no. But I don't get out much... I made most everything I own. [2014/10/21 10:54] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Hi Ariadni :) [2014/10/21 10:54]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: Hi Marcus [2014/10/21 10:54]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: Hi all [2014/10/21 10:54]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Hey Rich. [2014/10/21 10:54]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi marcus [2014/10/21 10:54]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hello [2014/10/21 10:55]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi bluewall, neb [2014/10/21 10:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi RiRa [2014/10/21 10:55]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: How easy is it to repro the bug? Is it just a matter of handing someone a cube you've rezzed? [2014/10/21 10:56]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Hello, Intrepid. [2014/10/21 10:56]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if they own the region and rez it [2014/10/21 10:56]  Intrepid.Explorer @mymodem.justdied.com:9000 waves [2014/10/21 10:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello [2014/10/21 10:56] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0/ [2014/10/21 10:57] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: This isnt just god power coming into play? [2014/10/21 10:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: No [2014/10/21 10:57]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what problem you talk about marcuys ? [2014/10/21 10:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: At least, it's not active [2014/10/21 10:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: perms [2014/10/21 10:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: export ? [2014/10/21 10:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no, If I make an object and give it to another - who owns a region, Then they can rez it and I can edit it. [2014/10/21 10:58] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: So... if I give Neb something I made right now, and he rezzes it, I may still be able to edit it. [2014/10/21 10:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Yes [2014/10/21 10:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha, that good old problem [2014/10/21 10:59] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Shall we try it? :) [2014/10/21 10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: good for pulling hairs if you can be god [2014/10/21 10:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the owner can edit it, even though there are not perms to do so [2014/10/21 10:59]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: cant [2014/10/21 10:59]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: wow...tp was very fast today....region slow to rez but tp was really good [2014/10/21 10:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I could give something to Neb. Presumably he can rez here. [2014/10/21 10:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [2014/10/21 11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [2014/10/21 11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [2014/10/21 11:00]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi JCC [2014/10/21 11:00]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Hiya jcc [2014/10/21 11:00]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hi Justin [2014/10/21 11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: any change in hg to here today? [2014/10/21 11:00] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yes, was very fast to get here today [2014/10/21 11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, interesting [2014/10/21 11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya Aine and I went pretty deep down the OpenSim / Router rabbit hole the other day [2014/10/21 11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hehe [2014/10/21 11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I have made two changes, one which improves the XML transformation which should help but I don't know how much [2014/10/21 11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i had her do some radical things [2014/10/21 11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: Neb doesn't like port 10k [2014/10/21 11:01] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net gave you BarkPot. [2014/10/21 11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: and another which may improve avatar response movement in general, though that shouldn't impact initial hg jump in [2014/10/21 11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: ha [2014/10/21 11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, cool to hear that too [2014/10/21 11:01] Nebadon Izumi: nice Marcus [2014/10/21 11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: was very interesting [2014/10/21 11:01] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I can't seem to edit that, Bluewall. [2014/10/21 11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: Neb can explain better than I can though [2014/10/21 11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok [2014/10/21 11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: ya for some reason, i can not and have never been able to run or use OpenSimulator on Port 10000 [2014/10/21 11:02] Nebadon Izumi: cant explain it [2014/10/21 11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: its been that way for years for me [2014/10/21 11:02]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: It highlights, but I can't perform any operations on it. [2014/10/21 11:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that's good. I need to look back at my setup to see what happens there [2014/10/21 11:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: hi :) [2014/10/21 11:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I can update things there while I'm here [2014/10/21 11:02]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: he can see me with Firefox but his grid refuses to talk to mine when I'm on 10k [2014/10/21 11:02]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: HG could also make a difference? [2014/10/21 11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: odd [2014/10/21 11:03]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: when I briedly switched it to 9k it worked flawelessly [2014/10/21 11:03]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohhh, maybe so [2014/10/21 11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: The only thing apprantly normally using port 10000 is some obscure network protocol [2014/10/21 11:03]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: as soon as I went back to 10k it failed again [2014/10/21 11:03]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin [2014/10/21 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: profiles are working good now :) for those interested I have finally switched OSCC grid over to Core Profiles v2 [2014/10/21 11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: how about above port 10000? [2014/10/21 11:03]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: we didn't try it [2014/10/21 11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: ya NDMP or something [2014/10/21 11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: would be very interesting to knwo if it was just port 10000 or any port >= 10000 [2014/10/21 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: is port 10k only thing i can think is comcast is utilizing that for network management [2014/10/21 11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: as long you find a free port range it works fien for me bove 10000 to [2014/10/21 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: and some how it mangles data for me [2014/10/21 11:04]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: if Neb's willing I can try setting it to 11k [2014/10/21 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: 11k is fine [2014/10/21 11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: unless you talk about other problem [2014/10/21 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its just 10000 alone [2014/10/21 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not impossible there's some bug in the libomv protocol that mistreats 10000 [2014/10/21 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i think 10001 is even fine [2014/10/21 11:04] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: port 10,000 is a problem? [2014/10/21 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i first learned this problem on OSgrid [2014/10/21 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i had a 4 corner setup [2014/10/21 11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: only for a very tiny number of places [2014/10/21 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: on 10000,10001,10002,10003 [2014/10/21 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: libomv implementation i should say, or even up in opensim [2014/10/21 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and only the 1 region had problems [2014/10/21 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: eventually i changed ports and it was fine [2014/10/21 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: so bizzare [2014/10/21 11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I've only had 1 otehr grid I can't get to for the same problem: great canadian grid [2014/10/21 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I've seen strange bugs before where users with certain UUIDs could suffer issues [2014/10/21 11:05] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: thats maybe whiy i couldnt log into master? [2014/10/21 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: because of a parsing issue in opensim [2014/10/21 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: for instance [2014/10/21 11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so something about their setup and Neb's setup is unique [2014/10/21 11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I can go to dozens of other grids without issue and they can come to me [2014/10/21 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: which is strange Aine, because my local grid is a clone of this grid [2014/10/21 11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeah [2014/10/21 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: runs identical configs [2014/10/21 11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: guess you need to trash all your equipement and buy all new :p [2014/10/21 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: heh [2014/10/21 11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it's just utterly bizarre that it's only those 2 grids [2014/10/21 11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: everyone else is no problem at all [2014/10/21 11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi arielle [2014/10/21 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well with my grid i think once your region was on 9000 [2014/10/21 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: you were able to make it [2014/10/21 11:07]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: if it wasn't such a nightmare I'd just move my grid onto something other than 10000 [2014/10/21 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its only when it was on 10k you cant [2014/10/21 11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but then it would invalidate all my friends, etc [2014/10/21 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: yea [2014/10/21 11:07] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i use ports 10000-10020 but could not manage to login to fridays master though the configs work fine on a setup from 2 months ago [2014/10/21 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: why was it 10000 in the first place and not 8002? [2014/10/21 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: is anybody else experiencing chat msg delays? [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 1 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 2 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 3 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 4 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 5 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 6 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 7 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 8 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 9 [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0 [2014/10/21 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: she is running multiple standalones [2014/10/21 11:08] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Chat appears zippy over here. [2014/10/21 11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I'm running standalone HG and also (normally) OSG regions [2014/10/21 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: well multiple regions i should say [2014/10/21 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: here too [2014/10/21 11:08] Jak Daniels: chat fine here too [2014/10/21 11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: my OSG are set up in teh 9k range and my standalone on 10k [2014/10/21 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, maybe it's this odd local bug I sometimes have [2014/10/21 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: ho hum [2014/10/21 11:08] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i run 8002 for robust but 10000-10020 for regions [2014/10/21 11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I just arbitrarily piked 10k when I set up the HG [2014/10/21 11:09]  nebadon tester1 is Online [2014/10/21 11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I think having standalone default http be 9000 is a mistake, woul dbe easier if that was 8002 as well [2014/10/21 11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: *shrugs* [2014/10/21 11:10] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I stay in the 9000s, and just increment by 100 for seperate grids. Cuz I'm in no position to be running nearly 1000 of em. ;) [2014/10/21 11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: then perhaps one could assume 8002 was the public installation port unless otherwise specified, like webbrowsers assuming webservers run on port 80 [2014/10/21 11:10]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: 9000 does conflict with skype and a few other popular programs [2014/10/21 11:10]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: for someone wanting to run multiple instances they might just arbitrarily pick 10k for one of them so would be interesting to know why thatone doesn't work in Neb's abd GCG's setups [2014/10/21 11:11]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 9000 range i think above 9009 i dont like. something says me it gave me problems in the past [2014/10/21 11:11]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i just looked in the port list what range is free [2014/10/21 11:11]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I wish I'd know that....I would have set up my HG on a different port since it doesn't really matter to me which ones it uses [2014/10/21 11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you can find them on internet the lists [2014/10/21 11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, you can change the port still [2014/10/21 11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but changing it after the fact is a complete nightmare [2014/10/21 11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/10/21 11:12] Jak Daniels: the new config variables will be useful for that [2014/10/21 11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: no....all my HG friends will be invalidated since they all have be (in their local grids) as 10k [2014/10/21 11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally we would be able to do redirect like a webserver [2014/10/21 11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: omg, sorry forgot that nasty problem [2014/10/21 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: where there could still be something sitting on port 10000 but just tell callers that they should now go to some other port instead [2014/10/21 11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: my end will work fine but every single HG friendship I have will need to be deleted at both ends and then re-created [2014/10/21 11:13] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yes, is there some workaround for losing the friends on a change of url:port? [2014/10/21 11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: and all assets I've given away will start to spew errors [2014/10/21 11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: HG friends will be lost due to a change in port #? That sounds odd [2014/10/21 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yes because it stores the URI as part of the UUID on remote grids [2014/10/21 11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the port is part of the url to get to their server [2014/10/21 11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it will be lost at their end....they have me as "aine.x64.me:10000" as friend [2014/10/21 11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: and all assets I've given away also have the 10000 in it [2014/10/21 11:14]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: port change becomes erratic but url change totally messes it [2014/10/21 11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: why woul dthey start spewing errors? because unknown user? [2014/10/21 11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so if I change, they'll all then start to spew 404 messages [2014/10/21 11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: because it asks for profile [2014/10/21 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: and profile is associated with 10k [2014/10/21 11:15] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: a few of us experienced that when dyndns stopped giving free hostnames [2014/10/21 11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: it sounds like this address is being used for multiple reasons [2014/10/21 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeps [2014/10/21 11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: it may be more ideal to have a different address for profile stuff [2014/10/21 11:15] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it wouldn't matter [2014/10/21 11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, like twitter [2014/10/21 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: like AVW's change....anything I got from them spews 404 since they changed URL [2014/10/21 11:15] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yes on AVW [2014/10/21 11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe we need a service to detect changes and send notifications to friends. [2014/10/21 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: how is this different from the web, where this happens quite a lot? [2014/10/21 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess because it's being used as a permanent friends point... not as some address t ohost a webpage [2014/10/21 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it also means my region is trying to send tons of invalid login/logout message until I remove that old invalid friend from my list [2014/10/21 11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: look in the databse .. the urls:port is everywhere [2014/10/21 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: there's no way to ever update it [2014/10/21 11:17]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that is how a simulator can look users elsewhere - friends, profiles, etc. [2014/10/21 11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, one probably ultimately wants a different url for that thing [2014/10/21 11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: not one which is tied to the location of your other systems [2014/10/21 11:17] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I think the main difference is that on the web a user directly sees a missing web service. In world, dead HG things like friends have no visible consequence other than being forever offline. [2014/10/21 11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if you change the port, then it still makes it unreachable [2014/10/21 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: well...you could manually change every single instance of the old URL in MySQL using the right query [2014/10/21 11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no matter what url you use [2014/10/21 11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but couldn't update it in a SQLIte installation [2014/10/21 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: manual change isn't an option [2014/10/21 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: right, but if it was some other url then there's less need for it to change [2014/10/21 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: you could change your installation port and be unaffected [2014/10/21 11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: that would be ideal [2014/10/21 11:18] Jak Daniels: perhaps we should start using DNS SRV records for everything port related and then never storing actual port numbers in the db [2014/10/21 11:19]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the creator information is embedded in every object [2014/10/21 11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: trouble is port might be important [2014/10/21 11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: jak: coul dbe an interesting option [2014/10/21 11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: You mean simulator A request the port numbers from simulator B before getting assets etc. [2014/10/21 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: wikipedia says some other stuff like sip and xmpp use those [2014/10/21 11:20] Jak Daniels: so only store a domain name in the db, then look up say gatekeeper ip and port using A and SRV records [2014/10/21 11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: because you could set up 2 different standalone HG grids on the same system...one on 9000 and another on 8000....then it needs to know which port it is [2014/10/21 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: that would make running opensimulator from home very difficult [2014/10/21 11:20] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: That's a great solution of you have access your your DNS on a low level. Not every does. :/ [2014/10/21 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: good point [2014/10/21 11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so domain isn't even [2014/10/21 11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: *enough [2014/10/21 11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if we make something use the loginurl, then it might work [2014/10/21 11:20] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: even if there was a way to iar your friends list? [2014/10/21 11:20] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: / [2014/10/21 11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we could push updates out through there when requested. [2014/10/21 11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: could it be tied to a grid *name* instead of port [2014/10/21 11:21] Jak Daniels: DNS is dirt cheap if you've registered yourself a domain name, most providers allow you to configure all types of records [2014/10/21 11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if you move the domain, though, what? [2014/10/21 11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [2014/10/21 11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: if it's a grid name then you nee some way to look up the actual url.... like dns :) [2014/10/21 11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeah....the optimum solution is a central "yellow pages" taht every grid registers to [2014/10/21 11:21]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [2014/10/21 11:21]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: then have it store the current url and port [2014/10/21 11:21]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dahlia [2014/10/21 11:22]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: iar doesnt do the friends list right? [2014/10/21 11:22]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Dahlia :) [2014/10/21 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [2014/10/21 11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, think thats the only way to solve it easy way [2014/10/21 11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: when you make any change in your grid you register that change [2014/10/21 11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hello Dahlia [2014/10/21 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: it probably does calling cards [2014/10/21 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: The trouble is then you become dependant on some central service [2014/10/21 11:22] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yes but doesnt actually make them friends [2014/10/21 11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeps [2014/10/21 11:23] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: if they culd be transferred that would make it a solution [2014/10/21 11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but can't think of another other method that would allow it to be url-independent [2014/10/21 11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: if one can keep something listening on the old port, one could possibly do a redirect [2014/10/21 11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: (or flexible to changes in url+port) [2014/10/21 11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeah, I guess that would work [2014/10/21 11:24] Jak Daniels: its not very often you would change the domain name of your grid, so why not use DNS to specify all the ports for things? [2014/10/21 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: or ultimately, have profile stuff be a different url entirely which one shouldn't ever need to change [2014/10/21 11:24] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: sounds complicated [2014/10/21 11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: if I set up my router's port forwarding to forward 10k to 8k (or wahtever I pick) I guess that would work [2014/10/21 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: jak: how would you get round the issue of multiple grids being served from the same domain? [2014/10/21 11:24] Jak Daniels: does that happen? [2014/10/21 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: if you have a router can do that internally then I think so [2014/10/21 11:25]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes [2014/10/21 11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: for someone changing domain that wouldn' [2014/10/21 11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: t*wouldn't work though [2014/10/21 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: I just don't know enough about networks [2014/10/21 11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: domain still point to one ip, and you can run more grids behind that [2014/10/21 11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: someone who switched from home-hosting to a pro host would start all over at scratch [2014/10/21 11:25] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: is there no way of an iar populating the friends listy? [2014/10/21 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: like grid1.mygrid.com, grid2.mygrid.com [2014/10/21 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: it somewhat surprises me that this isn't another component to grid urls [2014/10/21 11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Interesting. I can't send an LM in my inventory to someone in the grid I was in before I did an HG TP to here. [2014/10/21 11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but justin, the still point to the same ip and same server [2014/10/21 11:26] Jak Daniels: but grid1 and grid2 can have different SRV records? [2014/10/21 11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: back in a bit [2014/10/21 11:26] Jak Daniels: yes same ips but different ports from each domain [2014/10/21 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know mnuch about srv records - only just heard of them from you juts now :) [2014/10/21 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: looks interesting though [2014/10/21 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: Andrew it needs to be in your suitcase [2014/10/21 11:27]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: they both come in on the same line though since they point to the same url (the outward facing IP of my router) [2014/10/21 11:27]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: the port is then looked at by my router to decide which computer to send it to [2014/10/21 11:28]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: grid1 and grid2 point to same server [2014/10/21 11:28]  Jak Daniels: yes fro its A record [2014/10/21 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: the only thing you could probably do succesfully with port chaning [2014/10/21 11:28]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only different portsa. not sure how you want to solve that with dns [2014/10/21 11:28] Jak Daniels: but not necessarily the SRV records withy port info [2014/10/21 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: is have NGINX listen on old port and reroute it [2014/10/21 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2014/10/21 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: reverse proxy [2014/10/21 11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: when I was running my OSG on one box and my HG on another, I have the router forward 9k to the other computer and 10k to this one [2014/10/21 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but that doesnt seem very practical for most people either [2014/10/21 11:28] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Short of having some sort of grid directory service, I don't think there's much that could be done about a change in domain names. [2014/10/21 11:29] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: really, though, how common is all this? [2014/10/21 11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I think you're right, Marcus [2014/10/21 11:29] Jak Daniels: no, but that doesn't happen much surely? [2014/10/21 11:29] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: on smaller grids and standalones....very [2014/10/21 11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: recently quite common because DynDNS doesn't do free services any more [2014/10/21 11:29] Jak Daniels: and it would break with the current scenario anyway [2014/10/21 11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so a lot of people had to switch [2014/10/21 11:29] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Do home installations have access to all the dns records? [2014/10/21 11:30] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Mine don't. [2014/10/21 11:30]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: in what way? [2014/10/21 11:30] Jak Daniels: if you register a domain with one of the registrars, then you get domain editing tools for free [2014/10/21 11:30] Jak Daniels: 123-reg.... godaddy etc [2014/10/21 11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: right [2014/10/21 11:30] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: My service lets me set quite a few record types, but not all of them. [2014/10/21 11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, do most home grid owners do that? [2014/10/21 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: email has the same problem [2014/10/21 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: you cant expect if you change your domain name that you will still get old emails from old domain [2014/10/21 11:31] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: why not have it so that calling cards can be transferred to the friends list then? That way it doesnt involve tricky forwards? [2014/10/21 11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah [2014/10/21 11:31] Jak Daniels: exactly [2014/10/21 11:31] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Subdomain services are very popular amongst hobbyists, and the vast majority of those services don't let you do things like set specific record types. [2014/10/21 11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: there are limits all around that we have to work arround. [2014/10/21 11:32] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: To solve everything, we could just stop using Hg? [2014/10/21 11:32]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol [2014/10/21 11:32] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: We will find ways to work it all oout as we go. [2014/10/21 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: stop using the internet :) [2014/10/21 11:32]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: pfft [2014/10/21 11:32]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: say for instance OSG had to move to opensimulator.com for whatever reason....every single existing osg account would be full of invalid FL [2014/10/21 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: ideally, we try and avoid baking in problems upfront [2014/10/21 11:32]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Bluawall, if you solver problem A you get a new one name B [2014/10/21 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: but unfortunately that's super difficult [2014/10/21 11:33]  Luisillo.Contepomi @login.aviworlds.com:8002: dns and ports are a bad security issue. [2014/10/21 11:33]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: sometimes you get B,C,D E and a hoarde of angry townsfolk with pitchforks [2014/10/21 11:33]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :D [2014/10/21 11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i still have a few corrupted urls on my region. used wrong slash. still need to fix that in sql file. not know betetr way [2014/10/21 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hehe [2014/10/21 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I do thin th eprivate grid port should get a password by default [2014/10/21 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: now that we have that capability [2014/10/21 11:33] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: You mean the port that defaults to 8003? [2014/10/21 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/10/21 11:34] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I like the google implementation of OAuth2 [2014/10/21 11:34] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: with the service endpoints [2014/10/21 11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i have 8003 closed when i worked with grid [2014/10/21 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, you need to keep 8003 unavaiable from the outside [2014/10/21 11:34] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I just don't expose mine to the public. [2014/10/21 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: but I fear too many people just open up their firewall completely [2014/10/21 11:34] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ [2014/10/21 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: why is 8003 a risk? [2014/10/21 11:34] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that is their responsibility [2014/10/21 11:34] Entering god mode, level 144 [2014/10/21 11:34] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: so many tuts say to open it though [2014/10/21 11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine everybody can join your gird [2014/10/21 11:34] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: 800s lets anyone access all grid services. Things like the tash exploit become possible. [2014/10/21 11:35] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: trash* exploit [2014/10/21 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: because it allows people from outside to do stuff like delete inventory, etc. [2014/10/21 11:35]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: wow [2014/10/21 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: strange i cant rez anything here [2014/10/21 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: that's having 8003 open at all, or just to TCP? [2014/10/21 11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: close it [2014/10/21 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: just tcp [2014/10/21 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: but best to have it entirely firewalled off for simplicity [2014/10/21 11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: only your region servers should have access [2014/10/21 11:36] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Unless you're running an open grid styled on OSgrid, there's no reason to have 8003 open to the internet at large. Only your simulators should be able to get to it. [2014/10/21 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: uhh [2014/10/21 11:36] Jak Daniels: is there a wiki that describes which opensim services (regardless of the port they may be on) need to be firewalled? [2014/10/21 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: im the owner of this region and a grid god [2014/10/21 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and i cant rez here [2014/10/21 11:36] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ for opengrid open [2014/10/21 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: that should be documents somewhere in huge red letters...this is the first time I've ever head of that [2014/10/21 11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Nebadon, :) [2014/10/21 11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i can build but cant take stuff from inventory [2014/10/21 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: I can rez [2014/10/21 11:37]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I'm going to double check my firewall configuration after this meeting. [2014/10/21 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: from inv [2014/10/21 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: there we go [2014/10/21 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe lag [2014/10/21 11:37]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: me too [2014/10/21 11:37]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: cant count the tutorials i have seen over the years that say in grid mode to open 8002 and 8003 [2014/10/21 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: for a few minutes i was getting the red circle with line [2014/10/21 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: for everything in my inventory [2014/10/21 11:37]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the screen just got black [2014/10/21 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: I've never seen that myself [2014/10/21 11:37] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Arielle, they are wrong [2014/10/21 11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I have [2014/10/21 11:37] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what does opensimulator.org say? [2014/10/21 11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: nothing that I could find [2014/10/21 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Network_Settings [2014/10/21 11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hm... that's an interesting point, Arielle. I wonder what it says on the os wiki page [2014/10/21 11:38] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i forget....page is hard to find :) [2014/10/21 11:38]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: From the OpenSimulator wiki: By default, these run on port 8003 and should not be made accessible to viewers (i.e. they should be blocked by the firewall from external access). [2014/10/21 11:38]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that is the authority and any other source should be considered a little dubious [2014/10/21 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: a little dubious is a bit strong, maybe mistaken [2014/10/21 11:38]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: regardless of how well-meaning the author is. [2014/10/21 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: this is why I worry about it [2014/10/21 11:38]  Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: You waited to long, reloading presenter list [2014/10/21 11:38]  AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: but if you put a password on by default that makes setup more complicated - every simulator needs to have that pw configured for instance [2014/10/21 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: but perhaps that's just ultimately better [2014/10/21 11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I would say that 8003 should have some security for open grid sake [2014/10/21 11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I think that needs clarification to state 8003 needs to be accessible only to the machines running instances. [2014/10/21 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: this is one of the issues with an open grid - you have to allow any attached simulator access to the backend [2014/10/21 11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, we could use the grid service to push out tokens [2014/10/21 11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ? [2014/10/21 11:39] Jak Daniels: surely no point in a password unless using SSL ? [2014/10/21 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: it's a wiki page, go ahead [2014/10/21 11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, sure. I'll do that after the meeting. [2014/10/21 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: jak: if your simulators are communicating internally then not an issue. With an open grid still sniffable, yes [2014/10/21 11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if a region connects to the grid, then they get access tokens from the extras support. [2014/10/21 11:40] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: you clicked in empty space [2014/10/21 11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the open grid could require those tokens to acces the protected ports [2014/10/21 11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: anyway...I just found it interesting that 10k doesn't work for Neb or GCG but works for all other grids I've been to [2014/10/21 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: really, ppl simply shouldn't open 8003... any measures would be try and protect those who do it anyway [2014/10/21 11:41] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: then there is nothing extra to config [2014/10/21 11:41] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, just for open grids [2014/10/21 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: it's very difficult to improve opren grids because of the way sl is architecte [2014/10/21 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: architected [2014/10/21 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: with practically all operations flowing through the simulator you are logged into [2014/10/21 11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tokens are never better then a closed port that makes sure nobody can access the server [2014/10/21 11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Is there any UDP traffic on 8003? [2014/10/21 11:41] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i will switch my ports form the 10k range later to see if that fixes master for me [2014/10/21 11:42]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no [2014/10/21 11:42]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but the idea is intressting as extra layer [2014/10/21 11:42] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I dunno. How long would a password for something like OSgriid stay "secret"? [2014/10/21 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: not by default, only if you put a region on it [2014/10/21 11:42]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: BlueWall, ty [2014/10/21 11:42]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I guess if I do decide to change my HG over to a different port I might as well switch to gridded Robust at the same time [2014/10/21 11:42] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not unless you configure a module there that uses it [2014/10/21 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: there actually use to be some more passkeys [2014/10/21 11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but I shudder to think of all the friends I will have to delete and recreate [2014/10/21 11:42] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yes, will suck [2014/10/21 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: but as you say, if it's given to ltos of people it's trivial to find out eventually [2014/10/21 11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Aine, you could configure a robust shell to sit on your old port with just the essential services running [2014/10/21 11:43] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: You waited to long, reloading presenter list [2014/10/21 11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: use some access tokens [2014/10/21 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yes... though don't ask me exactly what you need to put on there :) [2014/10/21 11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeah, or I could try having my router port-forward 10k to the new port [2014/10/21 11:43]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: last one sounds more easy [2014/10/21 11:44]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: region owner must be grid registrant, grid pushes tokens out to region when it starts. [2014/10/21 11:44]  Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: You waited to long, reloading presenter list [2014/10/21 11:44]  Jak Daniels: ++ [2014/10/21 11:44]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Sooo... basically a simulator logs in? [2014/10/21 11:45]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Using user credentials? [2014/10/21 11:45]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: It pretty much does that already. Instances get registered. [2014/10/21 11:45]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, the owner should be in the users database [2014/10/21 11:45] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: part of that system is already p;resent in robust. no use no sim connection [2014/10/21 11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think it does, yes. [2014/10/21 11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: user [2014/10/21 11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: robust always refused to allow a sim if the user where no in the database [2014/10/21 11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: needs it to setup the estate too [2014/10/21 11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it will just loop with errors [2014/10/21 11:47] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: We used to have a owner UUID in region INIs. Is that what you guys mean? [2014/10/21 11:47] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Changing active status for 1 [2014/10/21 11:47] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:47] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:47] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:47] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:47] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: when i log in console sends messages to all my friends that i am online. Their consoles must realize i am sending from a new url:port? [2014/10/21 11:47] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: It's the estate owner now [2014/10/21 11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and the region is a "parcel" with an owner [2014/10/21 11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: your source port is different from your destination port [2014/10/21 11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, I think the simplest thing is to just have a private internal pw [2014/10/21 11:48]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: my friends destination url:port is the same [2014/10/21 11:48] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Removing User: 1 [2014/10/21 11:48] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Removing User: 0 [2014/10/21 11:49] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Adding new presenter Nebadon Izumi [2014/10/21 11:49] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: but they rely on old info to sendf a message back [2014/10/21 11:49] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Changing active status for e8d87c69-f120-46db-8c18-acdaa0a7bab1 [2014/10/21 11:49] Jak Daniels: allrielle, yes, so you can notify them you're online, but they won't notify you cos you've changed your port [2014/10/21 11:49] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:49] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:49] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, that would be similar to how flotsam groups uses read/write keys [2014/10/21 11:49] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Removing User: e8d87c69-f120-46db-8c18-acdaa0a7bab1 [2014/10/21 11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but that way you can maby update the port [2014/10/21 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps one could make the online notification have an optio nto specify a changed port [2014/10/21 11:49] Jak Daniels: ++ [2014/10/21 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes, effectively it's going back to some of that [2014/10/21 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: this presentation system is a disaster [2014/10/21 11:49] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: cant that info be updated on the friends side?> [2014/10/21 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its totally not going to work [2014/10/21 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: or changed url entirely [2014/10/21 11:49] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: You waited to long, reloading presenter list [2014/10/21 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: even with this little bit of load [2014/10/21 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its failing [2014/10/21 11:50] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Removing User: e8d87c69-f120-46db-8c18-acdaa0a7bab1 [2014/10/21 11:50] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: This all sounds like a conversation diva should be in on. [2014/10/21 11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: failing in what way? [2014/10/21 11:50] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Adding new presenter Nebadon Izumi [2014/10/21 11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: nebadon, is that just a texture changer? [2014/10/21 11:50] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Changing active status for e8d87c69-f120-46db-8c18-acdaa0a7bab1 [2014/10/21 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: iits just acting bizzare [2014/10/21 11:50] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ossl texture ? [2014/10/21 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: its just completely broken [2014/10/21 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt work at all [2014/10/21 11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: btw. is oscc streaming everything ? [2014/10/21 11:51] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Removing User: e8d87c69-f120-46db-8c18-acdaa0a7bab1 [2014/10/21 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: completely broken isn't very descriptive :0 [2014/10/21 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: :) [2014/10/21 11:51]  Jak Daniels: if there are enough people to do the streaming ;) [2014/10/21 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe everything should be streamed [2014/10/21 11:51] AvaCon Presenter Screen 0.05: You are not activated to use the Presentation screen, talk to a moderator. [2014/10/21 11:51] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: fubar [2014/10/21 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: but yeah, always dependent on volunteers to do it [2014/10/21 11:51]  Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Adding new presenter Nebadon Izumi [2014/10/21 11:51] Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: Changing active status for Nebadon Izumi [2014/10/21 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: jeeez [2014/10/21 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: after i reset all the scripts now its working again [2014/10/21 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: also, we should be having an aditional load test on sat [2014/10/21 11:52] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: Paste a URL in local chat, within the next 30 seconds. [2014/10/21 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZZ5LpwO-An4?rel=0&amp;autoplay=1;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=0; [2014/10/21 11:52] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: The following URL was added to your presentation: http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZZ5LpwO-An4?rel=0&amp;autoplay=1;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=0; [2014/10/21 11:52] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: If this is incorrect, please click the URL button again [2014/10/21 11:52] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: Screen set to: http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZZ5LpwO-An4?rel=0&amp;autoplay=1;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=0; [2014/10/21 11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: which sat? [2014/10/21 11:52] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Same time on Sat? [2014/10/21 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: this sat and next sat [2014/10/21 11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok [2014/10/21 11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, early in the day.... I think I lost the times [2014/10/21 11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I might drop in if I remember [2014/10/21 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: neb: do you have them? [2014/10/21 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be working now [2014/10/21 11:52] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: early in whose day? ;) [2014/10/21 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I havne't not been able to organize all this stuff because I have been too busy on tech issues [2014/10/21 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: sorry have what? [2014/10/21 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: times for the saturday tests [2014/10/21 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: oh no [2014/10/21 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: i do not [2014/10/21 11:53]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: By the way, I was able to put some work into the PgSQL support for some things last week. It's still not 100% though. [2014/10/21 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think I lost my notes in the last forced reboot [2014/10/21 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: nice [2014/10/21 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: im not sure i ever knew [2014/10/21 11:53]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I would like to move to Postgres, but am afraid of the migration. :) [2014/10/21 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it was 10:30 PT this saturday [2014/10/21 11:54] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I can't get my grid on it yet, so I will need to work on it as a side project. [2014/10/21 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: and at some point the clocks are changing.... [2014/10/21 11:54] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: come here to watch saturday morning cartoons [2014/10/21 11:54] Jak Daniels: next wknd in UK [2014/10/21 11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: sunday? [2014/10/21 11:54] Jak Daniels: yes [2014/10/21 11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: oh, that's not too early. Still after lunch for me. [2014/10/21 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you guys see tiles changing ok? [2014/10/21 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so next sat it should be 10:30 PT, and so 13:30 ET, 1730 BST [2014/10/21 11:54] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I see it. [2014/10/21 11:55] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: nebadon, yes [2014/10/21 11:55] Jak Daniels: does PDT have daylight saving changes too? [2014/10/21 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: we will get it tweeted, etc. out though [2014/10/21 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, PT change is week after UK [2014/10/21 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: just to be confusing :) [2014/10/21 11:55]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Nebadon, some are taking a while to load so they start out fuzzy. Need to leave them up long enough to fully load. [2014/10/21 11:55]  Jak Daniels: we should use UTC or GMT [2014/10/21 11:55]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: Europe goes back on Oct 26th [2014/10/21 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: I find with UTC people just get more confused in summer time [2014/10/21 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: and me as well tbh [2014/10/21 11:55]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: North America switches on Nov 1st I think [2014/10/21 11:56]  Jak Daniels: but UTC is the only constant# [2014/10/21 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: right. Thanksfully it's not over the conf wkend itself [2014/10/21 11:56]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yes,we will be changing our clocks in Canada in a couple weeks or so [2014/10/21 11:56]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: thought it was UK nov 1 [2014/10/21 11:56] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Sunday, November 2, 2014: 2:00 AM back to 1:00 AM [2014/10/21 11:56]  Jak Daniels: we all have to convert from PDT anyway mostly [2014/10/21 11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: OSG really ought to run on UTC [2014/10/21 11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: then that eliminates a ton of confusion [2014/10/21 11:56] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: The timezone change confuses people as to the time for these meetings. :) [2014/10/21 11:56] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: OSG runs on whatever people's servers run on. ;) [2014/10/21 11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 wonders if we could just make some conversions so we can run on local time [2014/10/21 11:57] Jak Daniels: region servers or grid server? [2014/10/21 11:57] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002 proposes "Later" as the standard time. :) [2014/10/21 11:57] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: BlueWal,local to whom is the issue [2014/10/21 11:57]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that is why conversions are needed [2014/10/21 11:58]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I think we have this conversation twice a year. :D [2014/10/21 11:58]  Avacon Presenter Mod Hud 0.02: You waited to long, reloading presenter list [2014/10/21 11:58]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Just need to provide a gadget in default inventory that does the conversion for people. [2014/10/21 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh yes [2014/10/21 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: for the last 7 years [2014/10/21 11:58]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol, yeah [2014/10/21 11:58]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yup [2014/10/21 11:58]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: we do [2014/10/21 11:58]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: And we stay the way we are, and we muddle through. Somehow. ;) [2014/10/21 11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: dazed and confused [2014/10/21 11:59]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: or multiple clocks in the viewer [2014/10/21 11:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol [2014/10/21 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm going to hop over to the keynotes [2014/10/21 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: now [2014/10/21 11:59]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Yay! tets time! [2014/10/21 11:59]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: prim world clock wristwatches [2014/10/21 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: see anybody whos coming over to the test. otherwise bye for now [2014/10/21 11:59]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok,I'm going to log out and make an update to the wiki page [2014/10/21 11:59]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Bye, Justin [2014/10/21 11:59]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: BYE JUSTIN [2014/10/21 12:00] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: load trest today: [2014/10/21 12:00] Region found! [2014/10/21 12:00] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: test^ [2014/10/21 12:00] Region found! [2014/10/21 12:00] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: / [2014/10/21 12:00] Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Staff%20Zone%201/131/56/85 [2014/10/21 12:00] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/10/21 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm confused as to why rez would be a lot faster... [2014/10/21 12:00] Connected [2014/10/21 12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: best yet [2014/10/21 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hm [2014/10/21 12:01]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Dunno.. Just know it popped right in for me. [2014/10/21 12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it was very fast [2014/10/21 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if taking some update packets out of the LLClientView queues has made room for others [2014/10/21 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: or gets them processed more quickly.... though I don't think that shoud happen [2014/10/21 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: slow loading [2014/10/21 12:01] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I missed the last couple tests. But this was tons faster than the last one I attended. [2014/10/21 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so today I'm hoping the lag spikes when hg avatars log in will be improved [2014/10/21 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: could just be me though [2014/10/21 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: my net sucks today [2014/10/21 12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: very fast tp over too [2014/10/21 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: my ISP doesnt like me running 100s of bots anymore [2014/10/21 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: have addressed and am in the processing of addressing some issues there [2014/10/21 12:01] Elmo.Figaro @hypergrid.org:8002: hi mata [2014/10/21 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: neb: yeah, they really seem to have put the hammer down on you [2014/10/21 12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hi Elmo [2014/10/21 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: 99% sure im being throttled at the moment [2014/10/21 12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Nebadon, did you switch to AT&T? [2014/10/21 12:01] Elmo.Figaro @hypergrid.org:8002: i loaded 10 or so with funny names [2014/10/21 12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hehe [2014/10/21 12:02] Elmo.Figaro @hypergrid.org:8002: or 11? [2014/10/21 12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: eck, still some lag [2014/10/21 12:03] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I'm observing jaggy movement in other avatars. [2014/10/21 12:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Just had to pop over for a momoent. Region came up pretty fast. [2014/10/21 12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I'm not getting any lag at the moment [2014/10/21 12:03] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: where is the servers? [2014/10/21 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be ideally if it were just a local issue for me, but don't want to hope that, bound to be disappointed :) [2014/10/21 12:04]  Jak Daniels: no lag here [2014/10/21 12:04]  cyberserenity.Vella @2worlds2go.eu:8002: No lag [2014/10/21 12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok [2014/10/21 12:05]  Jak Daniels: a tiny bit jumpy sometimes tho, but not much [2014/10/21 12:05]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Occasional bouts of lag in movements for me. [2014/10/21 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 1 [2014/10/21 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 2 [2014/10/21 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 3 [2014/10/21 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 4 [2014/10/21 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 5 [2014/10/21 12:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 6 [2014/10/21 12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 7 [2014/10/21 12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 8 [2014/10/21 12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 9 [2014/10/21 12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0 [2014/10/21 12:06] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: working ok for me even on my slow speed connection [2014/10/21 12:06] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Mostly good for me. Just a teensy hitch here and there. [2014/10/21 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I expect that might be garbage collection related [2014/10/21 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I've seen that in past tests once the other sources of lag were discounted [2014/10/21 12:06] Nebadon.Tester1 @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: finally [2014/10/21 12:06] Nebadon.Tester1 @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: region just loaded for me [2014/10/21 12:06]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: marcus you sitting while floating around? [2014/10/21 12:06] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Nothing for it but a complete c++ rewrite then. >:) [2014/10/21 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: im not even going to try moving today [2014/10/21 12:07]  Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: 1 [2014/10/21 12:07]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I see myself moong about normally, Arielle. [2014/10/21 12:07]  Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: 2 [2014/10/21 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant even get google.com to load [2014/10/21 12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you do have much higher packet resend numbers than most other people [2014/10/21 12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: which suggests it might be connected [2014/10/21 12:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: connection [2014/10/21 12:07]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i see you sitting [2014/10/21 12:07]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: i see you sitting aswell marcus [2014/10/21 12:07]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: I see you walking about too Marcus [2014/10/21 12:07]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: while moving around [2014/10/21 12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: still ideally need to fix that animation bug if there's time [2014/10/21 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: skype wont connect now [2014/10/21 12:07] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: My Camera is locked [2014/10/21 12:07] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: look 'normal' to me [2014/10/21 12:07]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: heh [2014/10/21 12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I ran in to a new animation bug today but haven't had time to test it completely yet [2014/10/21 12:08] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Now yer walking in place Marcus [2014/10/21 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: its definitely not my router [2014/10/21 12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: animations, animations, animations [2014/10/21 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: my router is practically sleeping according to the panel [2014/10/21 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: i just noticed that like 50% of content is missing still heh [2014/10/21 12:09] Cheopss Forlife7 is Online [2014/10/21 12:09] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: That's not a good sign. lol [2014/10/21 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: seems each of my viewers sees different stuff [2014/10/21 12:09] Jak Daniels: viewers all on same pc? [2014/10/21 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: im going to kill my other viewers [2014/10/21 12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I could not get an NPC to stop playing the default sit animation but getting the animation list (which comes as keys) and then using OSSL to stop it (with another animation running)...I had to specifically do osAvatarStopAnimation(npc,"sit") [2014/10/21 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: that will be consistent with bad packet loss [2014/10/21 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: but that worked? [2014/10/21 12:09] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yes [2014/10/21 12:09] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: Bye [2014/10/21 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, goddamn animation system needs work [2014/10/21 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am pretty sure comcast is probably just dumping some of my packets [2014/10/21 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: definietly bugs there [2014/10/21 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey nods [2014/10/21 12:10] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I've seen that happen with multiple viewers. I just assume it's UDP going into the ether. [2014/10/21 12:10] Cheopss Forlife7: hello [2014/10/21 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/10/21 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: hi Cheopss [2014/10/21 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: almost everyone is a gas cloud for me too [2014/10/21 12:10] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but with llGetAnimationList the sit animation comes up as a key of course, and stopping that key fails [2014/10/21 12:10] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hiya Cheopss ;) [2014/10/21 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: let me relog [2014/10/21 12:10]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I don't see a single cloud in any region. [2014/10/21 12:11]  Jak Daniels is Online [2014/10/21 12:11]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: WB Neb. [2014/10/21 12:11]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I only hit that issue about 30 minutes before the meeting started and I didn't have time to test to make 100% sure it wasn't a bug in my (large, complex) script [2014/10/21 12:11]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/10/21 12:11]  Connected [2014/10/21 12:11]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so I was going to write a fast, simple test to make sure [2014/10/21 12:11]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: All better Neb? [2014/10/21 12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: not really [2014/10/21 12:12]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: :/ [2014/10/21 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: it's interesting if some operations work by name though [2014/10/21 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: pretty much the same infact [2014/10/21 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: it could be a clue as to what's going wrong [2014/10/21 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: then if it reproduces i'll log it with copies of the script [2014/10/21 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, gonna start laoding up ma boys in about 3 mins [2014/10/21 12:12] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Yay! His boys! [2014/10/21 12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it might also be related to the other animation bug I logged a month ago with NPCs [2014/10/21 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: or it might be the cause of it [2014/10/21 12:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: aine: do you have the number? [2014/10/21 12:13] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: lagtest [2014/10/21 12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7325 [2014/10/21 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: oh,m you're mata hari aine? [2014/10/21 12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it's very hard to know though....in that one I call it explicitly [2014/10/21 12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yes [2014/10/21 12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: Aine = Mata [2014/10/21 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm now monitoring that one so I can reference it when I come to look at these issues [2014/10/21 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks [2014/10/21 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: heh back to sitting [2014/10/21 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: not point in me even standing [2014/10/21 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: cant control my avatar [2014/10/21 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully its not sim changes causing this for me [2014/10/21 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: seems unlikely [2014/10/21 12:15] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Kinda seems to be just you, Neb. :/ [2014/10/21 12:15] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hehe....you logged in on port 10k maybe :p [2014/10/21 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: let's see if they turn up for anybody else [2014/10/21 12:15] Jak Daniels: neb you have a fast connection yes? mine is only 4.7Mbits/700kbits up/down [2014/10/21 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: done any latency tests recently? [2014/10/21 12:16] Jak Daniels: down/up i mean [2014/10/21 12:16] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: Peri's a cloud [2014/10/21 12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. http://www.pingtest.net/ [2014/10/21 12:16] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: plants her feet [2014/10/21 12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hi Val [2014/10/21 12:16] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: hiya Aine [2014/10/21 12:17] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, loading bots into keynotes 2, 3, 4. Not here yet [2014/10/21 12:17] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: got 2 metro lucys [2014/10/21 12:17] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: wtf [2014/10/21 12:17] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Neb, I thought you had Cox? [2014/10/21 12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ping test is saying my java is old [2014/10/21 12:17] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Comcast, I thought. [2014/10/21 12:17] Nebadon Izumi: wont let me run it [2014/10/21 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: im on comcast [2014/10/21 12:18] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: hey its marcus hey marcus [2014/10/21 12:18] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: There is a new java update.. [2014/10/21 12:18] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Hi valerie :) [2014/10/21 12:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: huh, I thought it was flash like speedtest.net [2014/10/21 12:18]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: came out last nite I think [2014/10/21 12:18]  valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: .org [2014/10/21 12:18]  valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: ? [2014/10/21 12:18]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: gonna get dupped [2014/10/21 12:18]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002 shakes an angry fist in the air at all things Oracle. [2014/10/21 12:18]  Nebadon Izumi: the fact that its taking 30 minutes to download the java update makes me think something is wrong [2014/10/21 12:19]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: sometine yesterday afternoon...I had to update at one point [2014/10/21 12:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeaaaahhhhh [2014/10/21 12:19]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: A java update should be LOTS faster. [2014/10/21 12:19] Justin Clark-Casey: how about just speedtest.net? [2014/10/21 12:19] Justin Clark-Casey: for sanity [2014/10/21 12:19] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: its always a birked affair for me [2014/10/21 12:19]  valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: *borked affair [2014/10/21 12:19] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: maybe a total cold boot of all equip is in order? [2014/10/21 12:19] Nebadon Izumi: site isnt even loading for speedtest.net [2014/10/21 12:19] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: my update was rapid but whenever it wants me to update it makes my system go haywire until I actually do it [2014/10/21 12:19]  Nebadon Izumi: oh well [2014/10/21 12:19] Justin Clark-Casey: called your isp about it at all? [2014/10/21 12:20] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it sits there prompting me to update every 5 minutes non-stop, no matter what I do [2014/10/21 12:20]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: At the risk of sounding like poorly educated support staff of every telecom everywhere.... have you tried restarting your modem? [2014/10/21 12:20] Nebadon Izumi: no it only happens when i load 80 bots [2014/10/21 12:20] Nebadon Izumi: how do i even explain that to them [2014/10/21 12:20] Justin Clark-Casey: have you tried turning it on and off again? :) [2014/10/21 12:20] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: lol Marcus [2014/10/21 12:20]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Jiggle the handle! [2014/10/21 12:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i could but we'll loose all my avatars [2014/10/21 12:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: you could say you're notcicing problems on a lot of gaming [2014/10/21 12:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont feel like relogging them right now [2014/10/21 12:20]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I *should* be able to tell it to stop in task scheduler but whenever I reboot it somehow changes that schedule back to default [2014/10/21 12:20]  Nebadon Izumi: would take 30 minutes [2014/10/21 12:20]  Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: I am running on 2 machines [2014/10/21 12:20]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000 hates windows [2014/10/21 12:21]  Jak Daniels: some isps poorly regulate the amount of packets they send you in relation to the size of your link [2014/10/21 12:21] Nebadon Izumi: calling comcast is a huge waste of my time [2014/10/21 12:21] Nebadon Izumi: would not resolve anything [2014/10/21 12:21] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: nods [2014/10/21 12:21] Frans Charming: I'm glad to see that Dynamic Textures work on a sim with this load. [2014/10/21 12:21] Justin Clark-Casey: true, but you never know.... [2014/10/21 12:21] Justin Clark-Casey: but yeah, I know wha tyou're saying actually [2014/10/21 12:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I hate ever calling folks like that too [2014/10/21 12:22] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: With Comcast, he already knows. [2014/10/21 12:22] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: doesanyone know the interactive board at landing .. um isnt ? [2014/10/21 12:22] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: lower teir tech support an make you crazy [2014/10/21 12:22] Justin Clark-Casey: big lag spike for anyone else just then? [2014/10/21 12:23] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I'ms tanding still, but didn't notice one. [2014/10/21 12:23] Jak Daniels: boards are still under construction [2014/10/21 12:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, difficult to tell without mvmt [2014/10/21 12:23] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002: didnt notice one [2014/10/21 12:23] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: ty jak [2014/10/21 12:23] Justin Clark-Casey: Still quite possible I have a local viewer issue here [2014/10/21 12:23] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: no lag at all still for me [2014/10/21 12:23]  valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: not for me either [2014/10/21 12:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it does seem better [2014/10/21 12:23] Justin Clark-Casey: compared to previous weeks [2014/10/21 12:24] Justin Clark-Casey: except for poor old neb [2014/10/21 12:24] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: No probs here [2014/10/21 12:24] Jak Daniels: no lag here even when Justin's boys were loggin in [2014/10/21 12:24]  Christina.Vortex @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: gotta say i love the look of this sim this year [2014/10/21 12:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I should say girls really [2014/10/21 12:24] Justin Clark-Casey: they would be ruths if you could see them.... [2014/10/21 12:24] Nebadon Izumi: my ping isnt terrible [2014/10/21 12:24] Nebadon Izumi: kind of wierd [2014/10/21 12:24] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, UK going through tail end of a hurricane? [2014/10/21 12:24] Nebadon Izumi: im getting like 120ms ping [2014/10/21 12:24] Justin Clark-Casey: something I really need to fix but just haven't had the opportunity [2014/10/21 12:24] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: opps [2014/10/21 12:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: https://downdetector.com/status/comcast-xfinity/map/ [2014/10/21 12:25] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: not too bad down here near Bournemouth on the south coast, but I did get a bit wet in a downpour today [2014/10/21 12:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 12:25] Nebadon Izumi: big giant red dot over me [2014/10/21 12:25]  Jak Daniels: A bit mad here in Wales... [2014/10/21 12:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yep [2014/10/21 12:25] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002: Very windy and bit wet in UK - not quite hurricane - tail end but quite a bit of damage i hear [2014/10/21 12:26] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: my friend Mika cant make it here cause her connection in dorset is going on and off [2014/10/21 12:26] Nebadon Izumi: ok well maybe its just they suck in general [2014/10/21 12:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm in dorset too [2014/10/21 12:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Switch to AT&T [2014/10/21 12:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol [2014/10/21 12:26] Justin Clark-Casey: luckily I'm on reasonably good cable broadband [2014/10/21 12:26] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: I don't think I have ever heard anyone say.. I love Comcast.. really.. everyone seems to hate it, I wonder how they stay in biz. [2014/10/21 12:26] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hers dsl [2014/10/21 12:27] Frans Charming: Maybe they need more love. [2014/10/21 12:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, coming up to the 300 [2014/10/21 12:27] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002: You with Virgin Justin? [2014/10/21 12:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yep [2014/10/21 12:27] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Sparta! [2014/10/21 12:27] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002: very goodhere [2014/10/21 12:27] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lag [2014/10/21 12:27] Justin Clark-Casey: very occasional outage for me but generally no issues [2014/10/21 12:28] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002: same here [2014/10/21 12:28] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: ooops i got TOS sed lol [2014/10/21 12:28] Jak Daniels: ++ [2014/10/21 12:28] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: yur bald [2014/10/21 12:28] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: Screen set to: http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZZ5LpwO-An4?rel=0&amp;autoplay=1;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=0; [2014/10/21 12:29] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: oh well [2014/10/21 12:29] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: i see no aine [2014/10/21 12:29] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: wheres ari? [2014/10/21 12:29] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, just going to load a few bots into kn1 now [2014/10/21 12:29] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: raises hand [2014/10/21 12:29] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: omg wow loading meshy aine isnt loading me [2014/10/21 12:30]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: aine is a mesh :) [2014/10/21 12:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: you're a mesh! :) [2014/10/21 12:31] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: lol yes still i see no aine [2014/10/21 12:31] Nebadon Izumi: whats cound like 350? [2014/10/21 12:31] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: ur both bald [2014/10/21 12:31] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: seeing some clouds now [2014/10/21 12:31] Justin Clark-Casey: 341 [2014/10/21 12:31] Justin Clark-Casey: clouds are my dumb bots [2014/10/21 12:31] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: i see alot of bots leaning at an angle [2014/10/21 12:31] Justin Clark-Casey: who are clouds generally due to an unresolved bug with pCampbot [2014/10/21 12:31] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Cloudy bots are kinda par for the course. [2014/10/21 12:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats normal [2014/10/21 12:31] Nebadon Izumi: i think my net is better again at the moment [2014/10/21 12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: eleveated ft now but that was exepcted, as per previous weeks [2014/10/21 12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I do have a final idea for that but it's not a trivial one [2014/10/21 12:32] Nebadon Izumi: freakin comcast [2014/10/21 12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect it's due to the insane strategy we have for handling some of the incoming udp [2014/10/21 12:32] Nebadon Izumi: k cool [2014/10/21 12:32] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I never trust bots that hide their looks in a cloud [2014/10/21 12:32] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: cant you send in bots from the osgrid computers? Not being used anyway [2014/10/21 12:32] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 12:32] Frans Charming: lol [2014/10/21 12:32] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: droll :/ [2014/10/21 12:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I think ft spikes are probably due to gc nwo [2014/10/21 12:33] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: local lucy is still bald [2014/10/21 12:33] Nebadon Izumi: feels pretty smooth suddenly for me [2014/10/21 12:33]  Nebadon Izumi: like really smooth [2014/10/21 12:33] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I just had a single but kinda heinous lag spike. [2014/10/21 12:33] Justin Clark-Casey: whivch might be improveable but this might be as good as it gets for this oscc [2014/10/21 12:33] Nebadon Izumi: justin have my #'s changed? [2014/10/21 12:33] Justin Clark-Casey: did you relog>? [2014/10/21 12:33] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: SHOULD WE WAKE UP peri/ [2014/10/21 12:33] Nebadon Izumi: all the suddent it feels smooth [2014/10/21 12:33] Nebadon Izumi: no [2014/10/21 12:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: which user, "Nebadon Izumi"? [2014/10/21 12:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea [2014/10/21 12:34] Justin Clark-Casey: mmmm, your resent counts appear to be lower [2014/10/21 12:34] Justin Clark-Casey: which should be impossible if you didn't re-enter the region or relog [2014/10/21 12:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya not suprised it feels drasticlly different [2014/10/21 12:34] Jak Daniels is Offline [2014/10/21 12:34] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: aLL 23 LOOKING GOOD NOW [2014/10/21 12:34] Nebadon Izumi: earlier i could hardly move without drifting off [2014/10/21 12:35] Justin Clark-Casey: 364 [2014/10/21 12:35] Justin Clark-Casey: and I still haven't implemented the code that can automatically manage bot numbers [2014/10/21 12:35] Justin Clark-Casey: though I think I know how to do it [2014/10/21 12:35]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [2014/10/21 12:35] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: peri will be pissed she missed this [2014/10/21 12:35] Nebadon Izumi: let me bring my hg guys back [2014/10/21 12:35] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: yea [2014/10/21 12:35] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: we need 30 more [2014/10/21 12:35] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I"m curious.. why not use testclient? It seems like it is already ble to manage large number of bots. [2014/10/21 12:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: not to the insantiy extent that I need [2014/10/21 12:36]  Jak Daniels is Online [2014/10/21 12:36]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: It's serial, you need simultaneous? [2014/10/21 12:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2014/10/21 12:36]  Cheopss Forlife7: how many cheops do you need? lol [2014/10/21 12:36]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Gotcha. [2014/10/21 12:36]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: gwen is play words on face book on other machine [2014/10/21 12:36]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: cant use it [2014/10/21 12:37]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: darn [2014/10/21 12:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: 380 [2014/10/21 12:37]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: whenever I see anyone walk its in a standing pose [2014/10/21 12:37] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: aris going bald again [2014/10/21 12:37] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I"m just getting ocasional rubberbanding. [2014/10/21 12:37]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: looks ok here [2014/10/21 12:37]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and I see avatars fly off occasionally [2014/10/21 12:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: to some extent viewer appears to change animation showing depending on how busy the scene is [2014/10/21 12:37]  Christina.Vortex @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: ouch wow im only getting 12.8 frames a second with everything turned down to min. [2014/10/21 12:37]  Nebadon Izumi: alien seems hung teleporting into Keynote 1 [2014/10/21 12:38]  Nebadon Izumi: hasnt failed yet though [2014/10/21 12:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's possibly that happens with other avs - I have only short-circuited some things which contriol updates for ones own viewer [2014/10/21 12:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: own avatar rather [2014/10/21 12:38] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: avg is trying to scan this machine [2014/10/21 12:38] Nebadon Izumi: moveent is crazy smooth [2014/10/21 12:38] Christina.Vortex @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: no it hasnt with this many people but my video card is going insane xD [2014/10/21 12:38]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I've flown off the region edge a couple times before springing back. [2014/10/21 12:39] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: And I just had chat lag. :) [2014/10/21 12:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya other avatar updates look pretty bad, but mine looks ok [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: it looks like my HG Alien is about to time out justin [2014/10/21 12:39]  Jak Daniels: my viewer crashed, but I logged in again just fine and movevment is smooth [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: coming from my local grid [2014/10/21 12:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: ok, that is signs of lag [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [2014/10/21 12:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I might try increasing the fixed ceiling on viewer connections in a min [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: teleprt failed [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: oh justin [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: i hard coded these regions [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: for 200 avatars each [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: for now [2014/10/21 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: in Regions.ini [2014/10/21 12:39] Nebadon Izumi: forgot to mention that sa well [2014/10/21 12:40] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so I should be able to raise in region limit now [2014/10/21 12:40] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks [2014/10/21 12:40] Justin Clark-Casey: not to 200 though, maybe 110 [2014/10/21 12:40] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [2014/10/21 12:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: or even just 105 [2014/10/21 12:40] Nebadon Izumi: figured for now we could maybe get crazy [2014/10/21 12:40] Justin Clark-Casey: let me see if i can go round and raise the limit a bit then [2014/10/21 12:40] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i sent invite on G+ for more bodies [2014/10/21 12:41] Justin Clark-Casey: singu here doesn't let me... I wonder if that could even be hardcoded in the viewer though.... [2014/10/21 12:41] Justin Clark-Casey: doesn't seem to want to go above 100 just in the ui if I hit the up arrow [2014/10/21 12:41] Nebadon Izumi: noo [2014/10/21 12:41] Nebadon Izumi: dont touch that [2014/10/21 12:41] Nebadon Izumi: you probably reset it now [2014/10/21 12:42] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Wouldn't be suprised to learn that's a limit from LL. [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: to 1000 [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: only a reboot can fix it [2014/10/21 12:42]  Nebadon Izumi: bummer [2014/10/21 12:42] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: er, then hwo do I change it? [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: you dont [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer is capped at 100 [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: you have to change it i the ini [2014/10/21 12:42] Justin Clark-Casey: well that's annoying [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: and now that you tried to change itwith viewer [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: its probably back to 100 [2014/10/21 12:42] Justin Clark-Casey: 200 is to omuch though [2014/10/21 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: who cares for tests [2014/10/21 12:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I do, I don't want a situation I'm not trying to handle [2014/10/21 12:43] Nebadon Izumi: i will change it back before the event [2014/10/21 12:43] Nebadon Izumi: well its not like more people are going to show up at this point though [2014/10/21 12:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but god knows who else could suddently starting putting more people on [2014/10/21 12:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would prefer 105 on each [2014/10/21 12:43] Justin Clark-Casey: or I could make a mistake with my own bots [2014/10/21 12:43] Nebadon Izumi: also i am completely unable to to get my HG alien here now [2014/10/21 12:43] Nebadon Izumi: 3 fails in a row [2014/10/21 12:44] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: aww [2014/10/21 12:44] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: smile [2014/10/21 12:44] Nebadon Izumi: when he lands back at his departure grid [2014/10/21 12:44] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: dam missed him [2014/10/21 12:44] Nebadon Izumi: he looses all his attachments [2014/10/21 12:44] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm going to try and raise client max throttle slightly [2014/10/21 12:45] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I see jcc sliding and rubberbanding. [2014/10/21 12:45] Justin Clark-Casey: done [2014/10/21 12:46] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: everbody bald again [2014/10/21 12:46] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: fine here [2014/10/21 12:46] Justin Clark-Casey: if people are suddenly going bald then I would suspect that's happening purely on your viewer side [2014/10/21 12:46] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I am, iin fact, supposed to be bald. :) [2014/10/21 12:47] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: I think so this is much older machine [2014/10/21 12:47]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Wierd. I can move fine ,but just had chat lag. [2014/10/21 12:47]  Cheopss Forlife7: hehe on viewer sees both ok, the other one only sees one ok (my side) [2014/10/21 12:47]  Nebadon Izumi applies Rogain for Avatars liberally [2014/10/21 12:47]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: need to zoom in on the avi, then attachments reappear [2014/10/21 12:47]  Cheopss Forlife7: I try a 3d one [2014/10/21 12:47]  Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: dont you dare take picture [2014/10/21 12:47]  Nebadon Izumi: still feels pretty smooth here [2014/10/21 12:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: thuogh we are at 381 right now [2014/10/21 12:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm going to bring everything up to near 400 in a minute [2014/10/21 12:47]  Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: haha [2014/10/21 12:48] Nebadon Izumi: I just sent someone here that was on my local grid looking for freebies :) [2014/10/21 12:48]  Frans Charming: lol [2014/10/21 12:48]  Dj Phil is Online [2014/10/21 12:48]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure if they made it [2014/10/21 12:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: there are a few things I know I can change for teleport, but not sure if that would have any impact on situation under laod or not [2014/10/21 12:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: inability to login under load is an issue [2014/10/21 12:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: enter region rather [2014/10/21 12:49]  Nebadon Izumi: trying to get alien here again now [2014/10/21 12:49]  Nebadon Izumi: not looking good [2014/10/21 12:49]  Jak Daniels: ooo physics lagged for a second there [2014/10/21 12:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, seeing some spikes atm [2014/10/21 12:50]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I"m getting it too [2014/10/21 12:50] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: saw some sloiders:) [2014/10/21 12:50]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i dont think alien is going to make it [2014/10/21 12:50]  Dj Phil: Waves [2014/10/21 12:50]  valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: *sliders [2014/10/21 12:50]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure if your seeing anything justin, but 4 attempts no luck [2014/10/21 12:50]  Jak Daniels: lag gone again [2014/10/21 12:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi djphil [2014/10/21 12:50]  Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: No Alien! [2014/10/21 12:50]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll try Keynote 2 next [2014/10/21 12:51]  Nebadon Izumi: i have to relog him after it fails [2014/10/21 12:51]  Nebadon Izumi: or he is naked [2014/10/21 12:51]  Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: ooh [2014/10/21 12:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: 391 [2014/10/21 12:51]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: ahh [2014/10/21 12:51]  Dj Phil is Offline [2014/10/21 12:51] Dj Phil is Online [2014/10/21 12:51] Justin Clark-Casey: not going right up to 400 to leave some room for real ppl [2014/10/21 12:51] Lucy.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: walla walla bing bang [2014/10/21 12:51] Jak Daniels: lag again [2014/10/21 12:52] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: lyes [2014/10/21 12:52] Nebadon Izumi: chat seerms to be holding up good [2014/10/21 12:52] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: lag and mini freezes [2014/10/21 12:52] Cheops.Forlife @ever.unistra.fr:8002: half number of chairs for me here [2014/10/21 12:52] Jak Daniels: no lag again [2014/10/21 12:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats nice [2014/10/21 12:52] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Real people are overrated. >:) [2014/10/21 12:52] Justin Clark-Casey: seems to still spike on login at these loads [2014/10/21 12:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm guessing it's login related [2014/10/21 12:52]  Ange Menges is Online [2014/10/21 12:52]  Nebadon Izumi: interestingly people i saw as clouds earlier [2014/10/21 12:52]  Nebadon Izumi: are starting to rez [2014/10/21 12:52]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: 396 + /me [2014/10/21 12:52]  Nebadon Izumi: without relog [2014/10/21 12:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: going to raise client max throttles agian, though I don't think that's going to impact [2014/10/21 12:53]  Cheops.Forlife @ever.unistra.fr:8002: but no lag for moving, just the scene is not complete but my side viewer [2014/10/21 12:53]  Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: do you see us? [2014/10/21 12:53]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I do [2014/10/21 12:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: max client throttle now 1mbit [2014/10/21 12:53] Justin Clark-Casey: on udp side [2014/10/21 12:53] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I see a cloud. acryline erin is refusing to rez for me. I see everyone else. [2014/10/21 12:53] Cheops.Forlife @ever.unistra.fr:8002: yes no hair [2014/10/21 12:53] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: I cant stop typing [2014/10/21 12:53] Nebadon Izumi: my alien awas able to make it to Keynote 4 [2014/10/21 12:54] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: now I dis [2014/10/21 12:54] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: did [2014/10/21 12:54] Dj Phil: Bonsoir, Anne, Cheops, Ange [2014/10/21 12:54] Nebadon.Tester1 @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: rawr! [2014/10/21 12:54] Nebadon.Tester1 @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: lol [2014/10/21 12:54] Justin Clark-Casey: good bot stabiltiy so far for me, no dropoff issues this week except when I actually disconn them [2014/10/21 12:54] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: salut Phil...ca va? [2014/10/21 12:54]  Ange Menges: Salut lapin [2014/10/21 12:54] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: Us ladies gotta spit been fun [2014/10/21 12:54] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: aww [2014/10/21 12:54] Justin Clark-Casey: bye ariadni [2014/10/21 12:54] Dj Phil: 5/5 Aine et toi ? [2014/10/21 12:55] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: oui...tres bien merci [2014/10/21 12:55] Cheopss Forlife7: salut DJ [2014/10/21 12:55]  Nebadon Izumi: well my alien made it into Keynote 4 ok [2014/10/21 12:55]  Cheopss Forlife7: et Ange [2014/10/21 12:55] Ariadni.Afarensis @71.229.68.220:9060: been fun [2014/10/21 12:55] Nebadon Izumi: but KN1 and KN4 are just water and avatars [2014/10/21 12:55] Nebadon Izumi: but KN2 and KN3 loaded [2014/10/21 12:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, when there aren't active logins response seems generally ok [2014/10/21 12:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: at these numbers [2014/10/21 12:55] Justin Clark-Casey: active entrance, i should say [2014/10/21 12:56] Jak Daniels: yep spikes seem to be when people are loggin in [2014/10/21 12:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, situation there is improved at lower numbers but at these high numbers still manfiests [2014/10/21 12:56] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly a different cause [2014/10/21 12:56] Nebadon Izumi: KN4 just loaded [2014/10/21 12:56] Nebadon Izumi: KN1 is still water and avatars only [2014/10/21 12:57] Nebadon Izumi: interestinly i see all of the avatars too [2014/10/21 12:57] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Anecdotally, my biggest issues do seem to cooincide with when you say more bots are coming. [2014/10/21 12:57] Justin Clark-Casey: so no objects either? [2014/10/21 12:57] Nebadon Izumi: none [2014/10/21 12:57] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/10/21 12:57] Nebadon Izumi: i dont see attachments either [2014/10/21 12:57] Nebadon Izumi: i just noticed that [2014/10/21 12:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I think at a certain number of connections the amoutn of thread contention causes issues [2014/10/21 12:58] Justin Clark-Casey: hence the persistently elevcated frame time number here even though we are nowehre near 100% cpu and there's still spare time available, allegedly [2014/10/21 12:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya movement is smooth [2014/10/21 12:58] Nebadon Izumi: so cpu cant be a issue [2014/10/21 12:58] Justin Clark-Casey: cpu here currently is about 200% [2014/10/21 12:59] Justin Clark-Casey: which is 2 cores on this 24 core system [2014/10/21 12:59] Nebadon Izumi: thats really good [2014/10/21 12:59] Justin Clark-Casey: if one were to look at it that way [2014/10/21 12:59] Jak Daniels: too much time spent thread switching and not enough actually making the threads do some heavy CPU work? [2014/10/21 12:59] Justin Clark-Casey: jak: exactly [2014/10/21 12:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: that box supports up to 24 threads doesn't it? [2014/10/21 12:59] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: sorry is this is a really stupid question, but do updates to and from the neighboring regions play a significant role in anything? [2014/10/21 12:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but I bet http eats them up pretty fast [2014/10/21 12:59] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, I believe they are 24 real cores [2014/10/21 12:59] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: they could do, I have done some detuning on config for that [2014/10/21 12:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh I thought it was 12 real cores and 24 fake ones [2014/10/21 13:00] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: but I think the real issue is direct connections from viewers, both root and child agents [2014/10/21 13:00] Justin Clark-Casey: not region to region comms [2014/10/21 13:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I assumed it was 24 real, but i could be mistaken [2014/10/21 13:00] Justin Clark-Casey: do you know neb? [2014/10/21 13:00]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I just wonder... being that guy... how a var would perform. [2014/10/21 13:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya its dual 6 core cpus with hyperthreading [2014/10/21 13:00] Nebadon Izumi: 24 virtual cores [2014/10/21 13:00] Nebadon Izumi: 12 physical cpu cores [2014/10/21 13:00] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: it would be interesting. I think the issue right now is that there's only one inbound and one outbound udp thread at variuos points [2014/10/21 13:00] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: so each region here has 100 root and 300 child agents active [2014/10/21 13:00] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ah ok [2014/10/21 13:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: so I would expect that could overload them [2014/10/21 13:00] Nebadon Izumi: so basically [2014/10/21 13:00] Justin Clark-Casey: with just one mega [2014/10/21 13:01] Nebadon Izumi: 200% is one physical cpu core [2014/10/21 13:01] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's a guess, one would really need to test [2014/10/21 13:01] Justin Clark-Casey: billy: yes [2014/10/21 13:01] Justin Clark-Casey: billy: or near as [2014/10/21 13:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: servicing 400 connections constantly pumping in and receiving udp packets is not trivial to do [2014/10/21 13:01]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: So multiple sims handling clients prolly largely outweighs any benefit gained by losing traffic from neighbors. [2014/10/21 13:01] Justin Clark-Casey: root connections generally much higher traffic than children [2014/10/21 13:02] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: I believe so, but really needs rigorous testing [2014/10/21 13:02] Nebadon Izumi: something defintiely seems hung on KN1 [2014/10/21 13:02] Justin Clark-Casey: and tbh, you can improve the situation with inbound and outbound udp... a small matter of work :) [2014/10/21 13:02] Nebadon Izumi: still no content loading [2014/10/21 13:02]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: so near as 1600 agents present, thats a lot [2014/10/21 13:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, across all 4 [2014/10/21 13:02]  Nebadon Izumi: im teleporting alien here from KN4 [2014/10/21 13:02]  Nebadon Izumi: see if he can make it [2014/10/21 13:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: so with one mega it would only be 400 connections.../ depends if the other bits of opensim could handle that [2014/10/21 13:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would have liked to test a var for this but tbh, have run out of time [2014/10/21 13:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: and individual regions stil have other advantages - if one goes down the rest stay up [2014/10/21 13:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: if a var region blows up for some reason you lose it all [2014/10/21 13:03]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we just didnt have enough physical hardware or time to do that this year [2014/10/21 13:03] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: should up the max avatars above 100 and see how much margin there is [2014/10/21 13:03]  Nebadon Izumi: i did [2014/10/21 13:03] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Neb had it at 200 when we started. [2014/10/21 13:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think when just tried to adjust it again via the viewer [2014/10/21 13:04] Nebadon Izumi: it reset it to 100 [2014/10/21 13:04] Nebadon Izumi: nothing we can do now [2014/10/21 13:04] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, and that's not an itneresting test scenario for me [2014/10/21 13:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: since we aren't going to have 200 per region [2014/10/21 13:04] Nebadon Izumi: just cause its set at 200 though doesnt mean you have to log in 200 [2014/10/21 13:04] Nebadon Izumi: it just means that is the limit [2014/10/21 13:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya TP from KN4 to KN1 fails [2014/10/21 13:04] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: no but if your margin is 101 it could dip below during the conference [2014/10/21 13:04] Justin Clark-Casey: yes but other people can push it higher, or I can do it accidentally [2014/10/21 13:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't want that [2014/10/21 13:05] Nebadon Izumi: i think KN1 is likely not going to allow anymore users now anyway [2014/10/21 13:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: nothing wrong with knowing what the limits are :) [2014/10/21 13:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so this is the situation at about 400 [2014/10/21 13:06]  Nebadon Izumi: scripts are still responding [2014/10/21 13:06]  Nebadon Izumi: so thats good [2014/10/21 13:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: I am going to set some bots moving shortly because I want to see how the situation may have changed (or probably not) [2014/10/21 13:06]  Dj Phil is Offline [2014/10/21 13:06]  Nebadon Izumi: or maybe not [2014/10/21 13:06]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [2014/10/21 13:06]  Nebadon Izumi: presenter board was working now its not responding right after i said that [2014/10/21 13:06]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm bummer [2014/10/21 13:06]  Nebadon Izumi: thats not good [2014/10/21 13:07]  Nebadon Izumi: oh there it gos [2014/10/21 13:07]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: It's on a break. [2014/10/21 13:07] Nebadon Izumi: finally changed [2014/10/21 13:07] Justin Clark-Casey: will have to test ig again on sat [2014/10/21 13:07] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002: presenter board fine for me - but slides changing fast at times [2014/10/21 13:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think it lagged and then changed several slides all at once [2014/10/21 13:07] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: Screen set to: http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZZ5LpwO-An4?rel=0&amp;autoplay=1;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=0; [2014/10/21 13:07] Anne.Cordonnier @opensim2.u-strasbg.fr:8002: merci ! [2014/10/21 13:08] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Does the presenter do any image preloading? [2014/10/21 13:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes [2014/10/21 13:08] Nebadon Izumi: see the little tiles below the screen [2014/10/21 13:08] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002: and video load pretty fast too [2014/10/21 13:08] Frans Charming: yup [2014/10/21 13:08] Jak Daniels is Offline [2014/10/21 13:08] Justin Clark-Casey: are the tiles meant to be black? [2014/10/21 13:08] Jak Daniels is Online [2014/10/21 13:08] Nebadon Izumi: yq [2014/10/21 13:08]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I wonder why they always take a few secs to rez on a slide change for me. :/ [2014/10/21 13:08] Nebadon Izumi: even if the color is black [2014/10/21 13:08] Nebadon Izumi: it will still load the tiles [2014/10/21 13:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [2014/10/21 13:09]  Nebadon Izumi: i hate that with MOAP you have to have camer literally right on the screen to hear the audio [2014/10/21 13:09] Nebadon Izumi: moap is so dumb [2014/10/21 13:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I need to increas memory on this system, quite near my max [2014/10/21 13:09] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe that's why I have occasional issues [2014/10/21 13:10] Nebadon Izumi: how much you have? [2014/10/21 13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'd like to start some bots moving, ready for that neb or do you want to test anything more? [2014/10/21 13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: it is good to test the presetnation systems at these loads [2014/10/21 13:10] Nebadon Izumi: sure go for it [2014/10/21 13:10]  Nebadon Izumi: i stood my npcs up [2014/10/21 13:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, going to start them on kn2, disappointing I still haven't got round to only doing some... [2014/10/21 13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ho hum [2014/10/21 13:10] Nebadon Izumi: or whaevet you want to call them [2014/10/21 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, lots moving on kn2 now [2014/10/21 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: chat lag [2014/10/21 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: 13:11 [2014/10/21 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: 13:11:50 [2014/10/21 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: 13:1153 [2014/10/21 13:12] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: im screwy try to walk [2014/10/21 13:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 13:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya its laggy but not as bad as Id expect with this kind of load [2014/10/21 13:12] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Lagtastic :) [2014/10/21 13:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, better than when we last did this [2014/10/21 13:12]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I need to run...sorry.....see you all later [2014/10/21 13:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye aine [2014/10/21 13:12]  Nebadon Izumi: see you Aine [2014/10/21 13:12]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Remember, a LL sim would have crashed 6 times in the last hour. ;) [2014/10/21 13:12] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: BB Aine [2014/10/21 13:12] Cheopss Forlife7: we are 2 using a translator, then scripts running to take on account [2014/10/21 13:12] Cheopss Forlife7 (fr -> en): We are 2 using a translator, then scripts running to take on account [2014/10/21 13:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm going to stop them on kn2 then start them here [2014/10/21 13:13] Justin Clark-Casey: which should be worse [2014/10/21 13:13] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Oddly... I'm better. lol [2014/10/21 13:13] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: No I'm not. [2014/10/21 13:13] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: errrrr yeah i need to log. [2014/10/21 13:13] valerie.llauke @vallauke539.ddns.net:9000: im screweyyyy [2014/10/21 13:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah,scene not happy [2014/10/21 13:14] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: sakahatchie here [2014/10/21 13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: bye valerie [2014/10/21 13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: can move but anims are busted locally [2014/10/21 13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: going to raise lcient max again [2014/10/21 13:14] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: That's my exoerience as well [2014/10/21 13:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I move very slow [2014/10/21 13:14] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: ++dahlia [2014/10/21 13:15] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: Paste a URL in local chat, within the next 30 seconds. [2014/10/21 13:15] Justin Clark-Casey: hitching but mvmt seems slightly better at a fixed 1.5mbit client throttle max [2014/10/21 13:15] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I've improved. [2014/10/21 13:15] Jak Daniels: control is fine.... move/stop etc, but no animation and slow moving in distance [2014/10/21 13:16] Justin Clark-Casey nods [2014/10/21 13:16] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: Stopped listening for your URL, press the URL button again to add a URL. [2014/10/21 13:16] Justin Clark-Casey: some aspects of what you see in neighbouring regios have been detuned to reduce udp load [2014/10/21 13:16] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: everyone is gliding 'stead of walking [2014/10/21 13:16] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I'm nearly normal. Occasional hitches. [2014/10/21 13:16] Cheopss Forlife7: vous trichez là [2014/10/21 13:16]  Cheopss Forlife7 (fr -> en):  AppId is over the quota [2014/10/21 13:16] Justin Clark-Casey: increasing again to 2 mbit [2014/10/21 13:17] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think physics and maybe sheer agent handling is now the bound [2014/10/21 13:17] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: I"m all jaggy now. [2014/10/21 13:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: rather than outbound udp handling [2014/10/21 13:17]  Jak Daniels: much more lag now [2014/10/21 13:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: interesting [2014/10/21 13:17]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: alternate freeze, glide, lag [2014/10/21 13:17]  Jak Daniels: jerky movement [2014/10/21 13:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: going to drop back to 1.5 mbit [2014/10/21 13:18]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Severe lag at the moment. [2014/10/21 13:18]  Jak Daniels: long response times now for walk/stop [2014/10/21 13:18]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 floats thru walls.... [2014/10/21 13:18]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: chat and movement [2014/10/21 13:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: just gong to wait a bit to see if it levels out [2014/10/21 13:18]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: ping sim over 8k [2014/10/21 13:18] Nebadon Izumi: k [2014/10/21 13:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: possibly bots got into a bad way that generates much more phys load... [2014/10/21 13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunatley not a deterministic test [2014/10/21 13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, interesting [2014/10/21 13:19] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Wow... 5500ms for me [2014/10/21 13:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya ping was like 6000+ for me [2014/10/21 13:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: so a huge amoutn of time to turn around packets [2014/10/21 13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: is what ping sim indicates here [2014/10/21 13:19] Jak Daniels: 5 sec delay on all my keypresses now re movement [2014/10/21 13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: all the movement packets from those bots must be crowding it out [2014/10/21 13:19] Nebadon Izumi: ping is 4000 now [2014/10/21 13:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: is there any way to tell when a gc is happening? [2014/10/21 13:19] Nebadon Izumi: 3000 [2014/10/21 13:19] Nebadon Izumi: 2000 [2014/10/21 13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, though currently only as a log mesasge on the console [2014/10/21 13:20] Justin Clark-Casey: one needs to uncomment a few lines [2014/10/21 13:20] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: how does it know? [2014/10/21 13:20] Justin Clark-Casey: raised throttles to 3 mbit [2014/10/21 13:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I cna't remember but there's a way to register an event when gc is done [2014/10/21 13:20] Justin Clark-Casey: some hack [2014/10/21 13:20] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh when it finishes? [2014/10/21 13:20] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think maybe we're inbox bound now [2014/10/21 13:20] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [2014/10/21 13:20] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: My ping time are now jumping wildly up and down [2014/10/21 13:21] Nebadon Izumi: im loosing radegast clients [2014/10/21 13:21] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: 50ms one minute, 6000 the next. [2014/10/21 13:21] Nebadon Izumi: just a couple though [2014/10/21 13:21] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, we're not inbox bound [2014/10/21 13:21] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm deactivating bots here [2014/10/21 13:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: my ping is about 10 seconds [2014/10/21 13:21] Nebadon Izumi: ping is above 10000 [2014/10/21 13:21] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: eeek I'm at 10 seconds. lol [2014/10/21 13:21] Jak Daniels: even longer walk/stop latency times now [2014/10/21 13:21] Nebadon Izumi: 12000 now [2014/10/21 13:21] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: 14,300 pink for me [2014/10/21 13:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: let's see if it levels now [2014/10/21 13:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: 14 seconds but still 0.0% packet loss [2014/10/21 13:22] Justin Clark-Casey: bots have stopped [2014/10/21 13:22] Nebadon Izumi: thats a lot of pink! [2014/10/21 13:22] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, there we go [2014/10/21 13:22]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 13:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont think the packet loss display in the viewer works [2014/10/21 13:22] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, you see the amoutn of udp traffic generated by those wildly moving bots overwhelms the handling [2014/10/21 13:22] Jak Daniels: yep back to instant walk/stop [2014/10/21 13:22] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: lol.. I guess it buffered stands.. then ran them quick in a row [2014/10/21 13:22] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Mine's been at 0% the whole time. I tink that's nonfunctional for sure. [2014/10/21 13:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya no im back at 120ms ping [2014/10/21 13:22] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: 244 now [2014/10/21 13:22] Justin Clark-Casey: so as you see, it will be a largely sitting conference :) [2014/10/21 13:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: though real ppl don't move anywhere near as crazy as those bots [2014/10/21 13:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: possibly a case formore realistic bot mvmt stuff though [2014/10/21 13:23]  Nebadon Izumi: my packets are FREEEEEE! run little packets [2014/10/21 13:23]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 swats at the flying packets... [2014/10/21 13:23]  Jak Daniels: for me was best when you had it set to 1Mbit? [2014/10/21 13:23]  Jak Daniels: what ever it was ...;) [2014/10/21 13:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm not sure how much difference it's making [2014/10/21 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunatley, have had to turn off the default adaptive changing for now becaus eo fother issues [2014/10/21 13:24] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: was good at 1.5 for me... at 2 it went downhill. [2014/10/21 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: so currently manually limiting max throttle for lcients [2014/10/21 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: clients [2014/10/21 13:24] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Well, good relatively. heh [2014/10/21 13:24] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: probably confounded by gc and other stuff [2014/10/21 13:24] AvaCon Presenter HUD 0.1: Screen set to: http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZZ5LpwO-An4?rel=0&amp;autoplay=1;fs=0;autohide=0;hd=0; [2014/10/21 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that might have happened anyway though [2014/10/21 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, gc gets noticeable at these higher numbers [2014/10/21 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect if a bot gets stuck in a bad way it can really increase the phys times [2014/10/21 13:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe [2014/10/21 13:25] Nebadon Izumi: gets stuck and starts to panic [2014/10/21 13:25] Nebadon Izumi: poor pcampbot [2014/10/21 13:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 13:25] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so we do plan to have an additional test on sat, when there will be more real ppl around here because of some oscc preparation events for volunteers, speakers and such [2014/10/21 13:25] Jak Daniels: goes into a pFrenzy [2014/10/21 13:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 13:25] Justin Clark-Casey: should be 1030 PT, 1330 ET and 1730 BST, though will tweet it out soon [2014/10/21 13:25] Cheops.Forlife @ever.unistra.fr:8002: bon faut que j'aille pendre du linge moi [2014/10/21 13:26] Justin Clark-Casey: be great if ppl can come along, since real people/viewer behaviour is the ultimate test for this stuff [2014/10/21 13:26] Anne.Cordonnier @opensim2.u-strasbg.fr:8002: allez bonne nuit cheops [2014/10/21 13:26] Anne.Cordonnier @ever.unistra.fr (fr -> en): go good night cheops [2014/10/21 13:26] Anne.Cordonnier @opensim2.u-strasbg.fr:8002: bye [2014/10/21 13:26] Anne.Cordonnier @ever.unistra.fr (fr -> en): bye [2014/10/21 13:26] Nebadon Izumi: Bye Anne [2014/10/21 13:26] Justin Clark-Casey: do need to test that more [2014/10/21 13:26] Lyr Lobo is Online [2014/10/21 13:26] Justin Clark-Casey: but good test today, clearly have made progress on the lag when hg avatars log in at lower levels. Still some issues at higher levels and maybe with other stuff like presentation systems [2014/10/21 13:27] Deed Davids: Hello? [2014/10/21 13:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hi deed [2014/10/21 13:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya definitely good test today [2014/10/21 13:27] Nebadon Izumi: even though my net intiially barfed [2014/10/21 13:27] Deed Davids: Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt. [2014/10/21 13:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it is due to your localn etwork neb, since other ppl didn't have too many issues [2014/10/21 13:27] Justin Clark-Casey: though they aren't running anywhere near as many clients [2014/10/21 13:27] Nebadon Izumi: you are not interupting anything [2014/10/21 13:28] Justin Clark-Casey: by local network I include the isp of course [2014/10/21 13:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya possibly, my router seemed find though [2014/10/21 13:28] Nebadon Izumi: yea [2014/10/21 13:28] Nebadon Izumi: probably looks like a DDoS attack to comcast [2014/10/21 13:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/10/21 13:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but really traffic numbers not that high [2014/10/21 13:28] Nebadon Izumi: sudden and large influx of traffic to a single ip [2014/10/21 13:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: a viewer is maybe max 30K at steady state [2014/10/21 13:29] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002 blames Netflix. [2014/10/21 13:29] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm removing bots now [2014/10/21 13:29] Nebadon Izumi: kk [2014/10/21 13:29]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: we had a ddos on our grid sunday night :( [2014/10/21 13:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: which tends to lag things badly [2014/10/21 13:29]  Deed Davids: Gonna log out and come back. Kinda frozen. [2014/10/21 13:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: nasty :( [2014/10/21 13:30] nebadon tester1 is Offline [2014/10/21 13:30] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: we found out it wasnt targeted at us tho so thats one good thing [2014/10/21 13:30] Nebadon Izumi: my bots are out too [2014/10/21 13:30] Justin Clark-Casey: oh? how do you get hit if you aren't the target? [2014/10/21 13:30] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: shared server [2014/10/21 13:30] Jak Daniels: major lag during bot logout [2014/10/21 13:30] Ange Menges is Offline [2014/10/21 13:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhh [2014/10/21 13:30] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/10/21 13:30] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: they attacked 4 physical machines at the datacenter [2014/10/21 13:31] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally one would fix but it's kind of a problem limited to bots :) [2014/10/21 13:31]  Nebadon Izumi: DDoS can disrupt a whole data center [2014/10/21 13:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: so not something real ppl should trigger..... [2014/10/21 13:31]  Nebadon Izumi: going after 1 server [2014/10/21 13:31]  Lyr Lobo smiles [2014/10/21 13:31]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Lyr :) [2014/10/21 13:31] Lyr Lobo: Heya *smiles* [2014/10/21 13:31] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of times things like ATMs and routers are the target [2014/10/21 13:31] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, the bot log out causes a bad spike which screws up my graphs.... [2014/10/21 13:32] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, all my bots out [2014/10/21 13:32] Nebadon Izumi: cant you stop collecting data before you log them out? [2014/10/21 13:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: they are using ddos as a distraction also i was reading, to hide their real target [2014/10/21 13:32] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmm, I didn't think of that! [2014/10/21 13:32] Nebadon Izumi: ROFL [2014/10/21 13:32] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe that would be the easiest solution :) [2014/10/21 13:32]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: ping sim improved dramatically when bots left [2014/10/21 13:33]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk:8002: well im gonna scoot :) bye! [2014/10/21 13:33] Justin Clark-Casey: how dramatically? [2014/10/21 13:33] Lyr Lobo: bye Alicia.Raven [2014/10/21 13:33] Justin Clark-Casey: bye alicia [2014/10/21 13:33] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye Alicia [2014/10/21 13:33] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: from 8k to 59 [2014/10/21 13:33] Justin Clark-Casey: you mean just now, or when I stopped them moving a bit earlier? [2014/10/21 13:33] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: just now [2014/10/21 13:33] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: How much do the changes that're being made to accomodate the needs of the conference feed back into master? This is all a seperate branch, right? [2014/10/21 13:34] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: at the moment yes, but it will all get integrated back, though maybe only after the conf [2014/10/21 13:34] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002 nods amiably. [2014/10/21 13:34] Cheopss Forlife7: bye see you soon [2014/10/21 13:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Marcus, or do we want them fed back? [2014/10/21 13:34] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: BB Cheopss [2014/10/21 13:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'm not sure I want changes that reduce what I see other avatars doing [2014/10/21 13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: those are config changes that aren't default [2014/10/21 13:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: kk [2014/10/21 13:35]  Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: That's sorta what I wondered actually, Dahlia. How much what's being done for this is applicable to broader useage. [2014/10/21 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: quite a bit i think [2014/10/21 13:36] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: isnt this making the server more efficient? [2014/10/21 13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: that's why some of this stuff is a separate branch, I need to think through that they aren't going to cause prioblems in toher scenarios [2014/10/21 13:36] Jak Daniels: the udp profiling is I guess [2014/10/21 13:36] Nebadon Izumi: especailly the HG teleport stuff [2014/10/21 13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: or if they do then that's the not the default config [2014/10/21 13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: yes, the majority of changes are pure efficiency that would apply in any scenario [2014/10/21 13:36] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I am still seeing data arriving for bots that are no longer here, seems to have accumulated a backlog. well upto a minute ago [2014/10/21 13:36] Marcus.Llewellyn @grid.verymad.net:8002: Awesome. :) [2014/10/21 13:36] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: so all good [2014/10/21 13:37]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: especially efficiency of HG jumps