Chat log from the meeting on 2015-09-08

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: sorry im late everyone [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: deep into blender [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/phase2/demo/img/uv2_hd_blender_005.png [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: http://4dialog.com/Upplands_Vasby/phase2/demo/img/uv2_hd_blender_006.png [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: did you see today's "blender challenge"? [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: no what is it? [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, that is a bit of a black hole from which you might never be seen again. :) [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: take a cube, subsurf it 2 levels, apply, the using ONLY sculpting tools turn it back into a cube and time yourself [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: that would be pretty easy I think [11:13] vegaslon plutonian: yep [11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a LOT harder than you'd think [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, question. Is there a list of console commands that have been changed/added/removed over the last few releases. [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: in my head it is anyway [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it tooke me close to 30 minutes to get it vaguely cube-like again [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hmm geez i doubt it plugh, but anything is possible [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: maybe the release notes might be helpful [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you use other tools it's super easy [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, I can think of many other things I'd rather do. [11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: in my head i feel likei could make it a cube in 5-10 minutes [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: using ortho view [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's an interesting challenge though [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and camera snap [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: use b to high light regions [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, ok. I'm not sure if that sort of thing has always been mentioned in the release notes. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ten s > z > 0 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: s > y > 0 [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: to flatten [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you didn't read the rules....using ONLY SCULPTING TOOLS [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: oooh i see [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: well hmm [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. That's not sculpting tool. [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: tricky but doable [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: way harder than you'd think [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the sculpting tools in general are hard to use [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if I wasn't limited to sculpt tools I'd do exactly what you said and it would take a couple minutes [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i never quite get the results I want [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: That's one of the reasons I do my modelling in a different program. :) [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: the trick is to have very good triangle layout of your mesh [11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I try to do some of those challenges because one can sometimes learn new techniques, though, that can come in handy [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: experience is the best way to learn blender [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: repeating that experience over and over [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: about 6000 times [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, and if you don't use it for a while you forget. [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Bringing it back to OS for a moment, what are the chances of mega support being dropped from the next release? [11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anyway....what's new an exciting in the Opensim dev side of things? [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: not sure I think we need to hear back from some of the people who -1 it like Oren [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if its not this release its definitely next release I think mega regions will go [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there a target date for "this release"? [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I was starting to think perhaps it won't be dropped this time around but in the following release [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, "Real Soon Now" ;) [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I do not think so yet [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol [11:19] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: some one submitted a patch to make ode work with vars i think [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yea Ubit was working on that [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, that was one of the -1's for dropping megas. [11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes....and Dan Banner tested it somewhat and says it seems to be working fine [11:20] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: saw it on irc but didnt have time to look any closer than that [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Mega's, why would you use that problem sim type [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: The claim is that some things still work better in megas than vars [11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one major downside to var is being limited to only the one terrain texture for the entire area [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Kitely still uses ODE physics for various reasons and there was mention that, until recently, ODE wouldn't work in vars. [11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: it will be good to get rid of the confusing code needed to support megas [11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: From everything I've experienced, within the region vars are much better than megas. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea megas were always a hack [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: shouldnt be something anyone is relying on anymore [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be a good thing if it cleans up the code base. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its easy to convert to var [11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: Do vars still have some issues when adjacent to different-sized regions/vars? I haven't tested it for a while [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but so did megas [11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes, vars are better [11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what would be *really* nice is finding a way to make terrain texture a parcel setting (but of course that would require a viewer change) [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: megas were even worse though [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: with neighbors [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: megs did too? I thought someone said they didn't [11:22] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev       bba7942: 2015-09-05 10:29:18 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: maybe it got fixed I dunno [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i remmber at one point neighbors could only se the SW region [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: if they were close enough [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: if your mega was big enough [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: a standard 256 neighbor would jus see ocean [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: with megas [11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Granted so far the only real issue I've noticed is weird things with viewing and every so often moving between the regions. Otherwise they don't seem to cause instability or such. [11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Vars just have trouble interacting with other sizes [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there is still an issue with TP's between vars and regular regions in 0.8 [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats another thing with megas [11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only problems I see with var is the usual issue of too much stuff, too few server resources [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that damn double teleport [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: was just saying he lets crash you now.. [11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: lol [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: but ya soon they will be shelved [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: If mega support may be dropped I'm hoping it will focus more attention on fixing the issues in vars. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: the bad of vars is far less than the bad of megas [11:25] Kayaker Magic: it's not like anyone (besides Oren) was fixing bugs in megas... [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I know in megas too alot of LSL didnt work right [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: like the terrain events [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: didnt work [11:25] OtakuMegane Desu: Well when people knew vars were coming for a good while, it didn't make sense to put a lot of work into a kludge that wasn't going to have a purpose in the future [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: that all works in vars now [11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: other excuse people have is that vars use more memory or bullet. [11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not seen that [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a var running ODE to test that vs BS. I found that avatars start bouncing as they walk along the terrain in a var with ODE [11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: If vars use more resources than the equivalent mega or individual regions, is a maginal difference. [11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: I haven't noticed it [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Otaku, it comes and goes a bit. [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: We will need to have people file mantis reports for issues relating to vars. [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Can't fix the issues if we don't know about them. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately in some of the ODE stuff [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: people got used to working around bugs [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and get mad when they are fixed [11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I have only l;ast time weirdness that cpu usage is going up for soem unknown reason and never drops. i thin 8.1.1. is not so good [11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: XD [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: cant win or loose with ODE [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't done much with physics scripting. [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to fix physics when eveyrone complains when you fix a bug they are working around for years [11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: I have nothing against ODE but after using Bullet, I just can't see a reason to ever go back. Granted Idon't have much "legacy" stuff that relies on ODE's mechanics [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: generally no matter what you do people end up having to adjust scripts [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: LL has same problem [11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Why not just change it ? if Linden Lab would do that we still where stuck with old problems [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: everyetime they update Havok everyone has to fix their vehicles [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Its like when sit positions were adjusted. [11:30] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: making Fire with Stones was Yesterday, using ODE-Physics was Yesterday too [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: well we should always allow for several physics engines [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it would be nice to have one that worked really good [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but there is always room for multiple kinds of engines for different tasks [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: not a matter of which is better [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its a matter of which one suits your needs [11:31] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: true [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe, so far, they are all "broken" in one way or another. [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or which one is actively being worked on and/or maintained.... [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: one of our goals right now is to make opensimulator more modular [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: BS seems to be the best bet for Physics going forward. [11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: No doubt there will be at least a couple choices for physics but Bullet Sim seems to have the best momentum and interest right now. [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: so we can just drop in new functionality [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: with stuff that doesnt have to be in core [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: people can make a module and expand opensim without needing core approval [11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: Modular is good. [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I saw talk of the work being done to that end. [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: people tend to blame core for holding development back [11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there have been a large number of commits in the last week paving the way for some of that it seems [11:33] vegaslon plutonian: hard to find modules that are not in core [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: when really that is just not true, if we do hold it back its not because we are trying to, its just sorely lacking man hours [11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nah, i blame the viewer [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so it will be nice to set it up in a way where more people can develop opensimulator without feeling like core is jamming them up [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: forcing them to fork or whatever [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: just like apache opensim isnt designed to suite just one need [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: apache can run wordpress or your own cloud service etc.. [11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: At the scale Opensim is reaching into you really don't want any more meshed into the core than necessary. You can do a model like that but far more trouble than a modular system, even counting the work to convert to something more modular. [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: It may make it a little easier to get in to OS and fix things without having to know about the entire code base. [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: right now everything is so centered around SL style experience [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be that way forever though [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but ya what we really need is our own viewer [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: that can be just as modular as opensim is too [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats the goal of our OnLook viewer project [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: tat diva and I started [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: Lirucookies worked on it too [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: to be able to program the viewer UI from the simulator [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: so i visit wright paza and I get a special wright plaza hud [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: What programming language is that written in? C++? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and I can only use mouselook [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i visit another region and its normal SL like experience [11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: C++. The fun language. :P [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya the viewer is mostly C++ [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe, yeah. :P [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: this way we can truly craft game style experience [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: no need to find and attach huds [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: or maybe in this particular region you dont want any inventory [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: so you disable inventoy buttons [11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: While C# takes some doing, C++ just seems to have so few people who can really work with it. [11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: OMG nebadon is infected by "the experiences" trend :) [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: all controlable from the smulator side [11:39] OtakuMegane Desu: lol [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I've gotten in to C# a bit but not C++ [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and we could do things like have it force attach a javascript hud too [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: not just LSL stuff [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: or maybe LUA or something [11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: C++ can dig to such low-level and has such a broad library set it's not easy to get into. [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I still have trouble thinking of JS being used for things other than web pages. [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: thats the point [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: you could make webpage style huds [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: cool...so that means you can make advertising appear to fill half the screen every 10 seconds to help pay for the super amazing experience! [11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: -_- [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that when i visit a region gets force attached on your screen etc.. [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: have a World of Warcraft style hud overlay [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: because your sim is an adventure game [11:41] OtakuMegane Desu: Goatse HUD? lol [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Would be good for RPG and adventure based regions. [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is a lot we can do [11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: as long you make sure the hud can be moved. in sl it already happens way to many times the hud is placed wrong. under a window as example [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the idea though is to make the UI completely programable from the simulator side [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so we are not stuck with this singular SL style interface [11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hate it anyway that chat cannot be undocked from the viewer [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 hopes it comes with a tutorial of "here's how NOT to design your region's interface" [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: That gets tricky to do when you also have to be cross platform. [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: WAit aine, i dont see your typing because the ads [11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Also some kind of override or "escape" option. Because you know someone is going to make a trap region or two. [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. A region called "Black Hole" :) [11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Invisible HUD [11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: You don't need no UI :P [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and people will invariably make them utterly non-friendly for people with any sort of disability [11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: So you say you need a UI [11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: or a nudism region that steals your pants in teleport [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks laughs [11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Alice, the get for some people anyway stolen [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: SiezureTron Adblasteder hud 3000 v10.0 [11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: You can probably do the pants stealing already somehow. [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: going to be my first product :P [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the trick is jumping right to v10.0 [11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i know some one that uses radegast and some times clothes dont load lol [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: It would also make it easier to have a text based UI [11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: Seriously though, there does need to be some form of override or a way to get out of a region that can't be programmed from the simulator. [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya nothing would be permanant change etc.. [11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: could always just relog tho [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it would only be configured that way in that region [11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: teleport home [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: go somewhere else it would change back again [11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Works if you're on a grid or know a place to go. Otherwise you just keep relogging into the same region [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yea. that should always be enabled. [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ctrl+shift+h always takes you home [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: :) [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I just open the map and hit the home button [11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. It doesn't have to be fancy, just a way to escape a troublesome region [11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: Probably without using the UI [11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱ [11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱ Goodbye .. وداعا .. Au Revoir .. Arrivederci  ✱ [11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱  さようなら ... Auf Wiedersehen ... 안녕    ✱ [11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱  Adeus ... Ciao ... прощай ... Adiós ... 再見  ✱ [11:49] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ...::: ✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱✱ [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: cya, Wolfman [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: bye Wolfman :) [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but ya lots of cool things happening [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: some early talks about having another OSCC too, probably scaled down a bit from previous years, only because lack of time for everyone [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its a big commitment [11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: I think this is going to be an exciting period coming up as Opensim starts breaking away from being an SL-styled system. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: still not 100% on it, but I suspect we will have another OSCC wether or not is this year I dont know [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think SL's days are numbered [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I think people want something better [11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i would do OSCC next year [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of time went in to the load tests leading up to the last couple of oscc events [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if we do have another OSCC in the next 6-8 months [11:53] Kayaker Magic: One thing that worries me about the fall of SL is the LL Wiki. We don't have a viable alternative to that. [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it will likely be scaled down a bit in terms of how much would be presented etc.. [11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: SL 2.0 may turn out to be really awesome but who knows when it'll really be ready and it may not be all that great, too. [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I am confident the software would do as well or better than last year [11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Meh, i better go for high fidelity in stead of sansar [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: without much additional testing [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, there is the OS wiki if you wanted to start building up a set of scripting information there. [11:54] Lucy Afarensis: Han Held was talking about putting something together for November [11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I think at the end the are the same. only SL2 is mabye still to expensive [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortunately november is bad for me [11:54] Lucy Afarensis: on google+ [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @Kayaker ++ [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I will be in San Jose beginning of november anyway [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: wow....bad chat lag her suddenly [11:54] Kayaker Magic: Th LSL Wiki is dead, it will not allow new pages added. [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: no chat lag for me [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the state of logins when several people hit a region at once and there are big inventories involved? [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: LSL wiki on LL wiki our OpenSim wiki? [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: If LL continues on their current tendency SL 2.0 will be very social-networking focused. [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I know that was one of the recent things being worked on. [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Definitely not what everyone wants. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: yea SL 2.0 will be for professional modelers mostly [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: I cant see it having the same econmic structure and success that SL had selling content [11:56] Kayaker Magic: The old Wiki at http://lslwiki.net [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: oh that wiki [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya that thing is aincent [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: There are two wiki sites for info on LSL scripting. [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: That's one of them. [11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, for some poeple. start swimming or drown [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think SL is going to go away anytime soon [11:56] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we started a place to collect scripts aswell > http://www.spellscape.co.uk/resources/scripts [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it will stay open as long as its profitable which will be for more years for sure [11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nope. but that it's going you can count on your 11 fingers :O [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: SL wont be gone in the next 3 years [11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's only going to go away when it ceases to be profitable [11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: LL has said I believe that they'll keep the current SL operating indefinitely. Just won't do much besides maintenance [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I've collected a lot of scripts. I've been putting a lot in a public library in one of the grids I'm in. [11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: Most features and such are locked in to final form now [11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would assume that as the population dwindles they'll cut down on the resources (or divert them to Sansar) [11:57] OtakuMegane Desu: New stuff goes to 2.0 [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure about that [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think they will still dev on SL for a bit [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: SL is still incredibly profitable for them [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: they have said they will keep going on SL but at a slower pace. [11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and at some point it will no longer be viable [11:58] OtakuMegane Desu: Probably but I wouldn't expect anything big or exciting like mesh or new rendering engine. [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, until SL 2.0 is found to not be viable. [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: They will be competing with themselves for users. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: there have been many big attempts at dethroning SL [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: big big money spent [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: no one has come even close [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: the people creating SL 2.0 are not the people who created SL [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: not even close [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: its far from a home run [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: BlueMars spent insane amount of money [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought Phillip(?) is involved in SL 2.0 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and no one even gave a crap about it [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: heh [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: nope [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: philip is gone from LL [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: he is working on HiFi [12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nope. i hope he wins from SL2 [12:00] OtakuMegane Desu: AH yes, I remember that. It seemed really cool in preview then when it actually cvame about it sucked. [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, I knew he was doing something else sort of related. [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: there is literally no one notable working on SL2 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: if there is its very secret [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ANd that sucks nebadon. and mabye good too [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: So SL will have competition from SL 2.0 and possibly HiFi too, on top of all the OS based worlds. [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hope it make people only more dissapointed about sl2 [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think Hifi will be competing with anyone soon [12:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: LL is on the list of investors for HiFi, does philip still have any conection to linden labs? [12:02] OtakuMegane Desu: Competition is good. And is coming, that's inevitable. [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: he owns stock in LL [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: thats about it [12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes adnrew, and remeber hifi is openm source too. and viewer is customizable. soemthing you can forget inSL2 for few year sofar i have read [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and I am sure the LL association to HiFi [12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hehe, i think you can be wrong in thaty neb [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... possible cross-pollination with OS? [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: is meerly to help him sell it better to other investors [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there is probably no real relationship [12:03] OtakuMegane Desu: OS is going to be a big player in the future I'm sure, whether as a direct thing or more indirect influence. [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: investors like to know very large companies are interested in what your doing [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: well OpenSim will definitely not be competing in the Social Market [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: people may try to use OpeSim in that kind of market [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: as long opensim is not going to improve mesh usage. and betetr 1st person playing. but especially mesh is disatser with SL / opensim. now i jnow how it can be done better [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: but OpenSim iself will not be just a social platform tool etc.. [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Opensim mabye catch old SDL people that cannot move to the betetr thing [12:05] OtakuMegane Desu: Which is probably one of the big reasons OS has held up as well as it has. There's a big social market that SL tried to cater to but it's not the only audience. [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya SL allowed us to lay the ground work [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: for a good simulator [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Being able to have scriptable mesh objects would be neat. Being able to animate them like you can in Blender. [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason opensim couldnt do that [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: we just need a viewer that can interpret those assets [12:06] logger sewell: I need to scoot tc everyone [12:06] OtakuMegane Desu: Eventually we'll want to be able to work with mesh in-viewer/in-world. It'll take time to get that all implemented though. [12:06] vegaslon plutonian: some people kind of do that now with npcs [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: ok yea we are past the hour mark anyway [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, would need a way to add rigging info to the mesh objects. [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: good stuff, anyone has questions about any of this stuff [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: please visit our IRC channel [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: irc.freenode.net [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: #opensim-dev [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and ask away :)