Chat log from the meeting on 2012-03-06

[11:03] hello : ) [11:03] Second Life: try hitting ctrl R and see if that stops it [11:03] Juicy Babii: nope. the default walk anim. is a run :) [11:03] Linda Kellie: oh funny [11:03] Juicy Babii: Makes you look ... eager :) [11:04] Linda Kellie: high energy avatar [11:04] Linda Kellie: lol [11:04] Linda Kellie: too much coffee [11:06] sim core: :-) [11:06] Sarah Kline: hi Justin [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, folks [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, justin [11:06] dan banner: hey justin [11:07] BlueWall Slade: Hi [11:07] Mimetic Core: hello all [11:07] Jalen Optera: hi Core [11:07] Mimetic Core: hey jalen :) [11:07] dan banner: hey core [11:07] Mimetic Core: dan [11:07] Sarah Kline: hi [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hows everyone doing? I dont really have anything specific today [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi mime, jalen [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:08] Mimetic Core: sarah, rira [11:08] Mimetic Core: john [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I might put out a quick 0.7.3.1 on Friday [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: k cool [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be 0.7.3 plus a few bug fixes [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: whats wrong justin ? [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: nothing much but a few small issues, like problems loading attachements when loading different npc apeparances [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: I need to try your patch today see if i can get sim to go bonkers again [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: and mssql support should match mysql, etc. [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: aha. [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't 0.7.3-post-fixes the one with bug fixes? [11:09] sim coresim core thought we were at 0.7.4 already [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: 0.7.4-dev [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: not release [11:10] sim core: :-J Ah [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, so 0.7.3.1 would be current 0.7.3-post-fixes [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: post fixes is just branch name [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: if we do subsequent releases post-fixes is not quite the appropriate name [11:13] sim core: .ping [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: .pong [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm sometimes have trouble making sense of the OS release/branch naming. [11:13] sim core: Hehe [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: :-) [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: 073PF is still valid for the git branch name. The tarballs don't need the PF part but just a number. [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: Anybody have any opensim topics for today? [11:15] sim core: :-S Well, I was wondering about sculpted physics [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: what about them? [11:15] sim core: :-? Would there be a way to force them to always be phantom [11:15] sim core: As they seem to cause major lag, sometimes, might be because of the collision calculations [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: there isn't currently a way to force that [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: looks happy. hate phantoms culpts like sl. [11:16] sim core: :-) Ok, thank-you and it might be an issue to look into for lag spikes [11:16] Sarah Kline: just make them phantom, we have the choice [11:17] Juicy Babii: non-opensim question: can anyone summarize the latest changes to 3rd party viewers? I'm still hoping my "no clothing layer" viewer can become a reality. ;) [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: i highly doubt sculpt physics meshes would cause lag spikes [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: unless you have really bad sculpties [11:17] sim core: :-J That's easy, when there is not twenty people using one region [11:17] BlueWall Slade: I have seen them with the alpha layer - watermarks do bad things [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: hi cloe [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: "no clothing layer" viewer? Is that a viewer for nudists? ;-) [11:18] sim core: :-? What dteremines a 'Bad sculpty', I wonder [11:18] Cloee Ling: hi ric [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I still don't think we have alpha layer implemented [11:18] dan banner: justin how much trouble would it be to have true/false/auto for AppDomainLoading? [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: oh thats still not implemented dan ? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: Not too much trouble. [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: yes that appdomain is getting a problem [11:19] dan banner: where auto would set false for linux and true for windows but actually setting true or false would still overide it [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: ? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: Personally, I'm inclined to try and first find out why it's a problem on windows but I don't object to someone putting in an auto switch [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: nooo [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: auto decide, and then true/false override it [11:20] dan banner: would save having to answer a bunch of questions about scripts not working all the time [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: yp [11:20] Sarah Kline: good god its grid god Key [11:21] dan banner: maybe we could have an auto until it gets figured out? [11:21] Key Gruin: hey everyone [11:21] BlueWall Slade: hello [11:21] sim core: :-? A note, in the .ini file [11:21] Sarah Kline: hi Key [11:21] Cloee Ling: hi key [11:21] Mimetic Core: hey key [11:21] dan banner: sim: there is a comment in the ini but a lot of first time people dont read [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya I really think Xengine needs some love [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: hi key [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: the way it handles threads seem to not be very good [11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: I rarely touch anything with the script engine settings [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: I think alot of problems we see stem from Xengine [11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: How long has it been since any real work has been done on it? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: its the number #1 source of the memory leak [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: long i think [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: what happens when App Domain is set to false [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: "the" memory leak? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: scripts never get unloaded [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: what happens is avatars come into the sim wearing scripts [11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: I can't recall hearing much about it aside from the appdomain thing causing problems. [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: even if scrpting is disabled at the parcel level [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: the script still compiles and run [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: just not avaibale to the scene [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: so what happens is after 100's of visitors [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: isomeone asked about faster timers. well that setting would be intrestsing to find back [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you have 1000's of scripts running that do absolutely nothing [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: the hybrid solution probably has to be to put attachment scripts in their own appdomains [11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, not releasing memory isn't good [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: and region scripts in a single appdomain [11:25] BlueWall Slade: that would be good [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: neabdon, you mean active script -nnn ? :) [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: well, they're not running - they are just sitting in memory [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: fixing taht would probably fix about 95% of the memory leaking in opensim [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: they get compiled but dont run actually [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: right, but thit is only an issue with AppDomainLoading = false [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: correct [11:25] Cloee Ling: that would be a hell of a bonus [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is though setting that to true in Linux [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: though certainly a script with a large number of scripts becomes intolerably slow to load without that [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: means the sim becoming very unstable [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: on linux at least [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: really, unstable too? [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:26] sim core: :-? What happens wrong, when appDomainLoading = true [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: the plaza regions crash constantly [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: with it set to true [11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: The fact I see only minor memory leakage even when leaving regions running for weeks on end seems to support scripts as at least a major source since I hardly use them. [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: memory goes through the roof [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: memory doubles on a fresh start [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: well, the memory overhead of app domains is much much higher [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: and climbs much much faster [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:26] sim core: :-J So better flase, for the moment [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: so you may release it on script unload but then you encounter that disadvantage [11:26] BlueWall Slade: the scripts load slower too [11:26] sim core: *False [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: it uses a lot more threads [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: so performance in general takes a nose dive [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: without microthreading [11:27] dan banner: sim: false fails on .net [11:27] sim core: Let me check [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: all .net though? I'm getting the impression it may just be 64-bit windows [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: no its all windows [11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: lol windows [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: I couldn't get it to fail on my windows machine [11:28] dan banner: no its also 32bit windows too [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya its not as easy to make it fail on 32 bit [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: generally people go weeks and months [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and it works fine [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: then one day everything breaks [11:28] dan banner: justin: you have to reach a certain threshold or something with the right mix of scripts [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and they wander into IRC wondering what broke in the latest updates [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: we get them to change it, and they are fine again [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: and then they complain about super-slow script loading ? :) [11:29] dan banner: no [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: actually no [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: in windows its not slow [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: only linux [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: it did seem a lot slower on windows for me [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: well [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: compared to linux [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: and took a lot more memory [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot faster [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: also in Windows you can use the unsafeworkerqueue [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: which can speed things up a bit [11:30] BlueWall Slade: maybe .net is using some type of microthreads inside [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: unsafeworkerqueue? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya instead of SmartThreadPool [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: uhh [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Cloee! LTNS [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: UnsafeQueueUserWorkItem [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: is the actual name [11:31] Cloee Ling: ltns? [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah I know what you mean [11:31] sim core: :-J You are right, have it set to false on the mac and true on my .net [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Long time, no see [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: when i was testing the Klein Bottle rezzer [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: opensim in windows did a lot better using UnsafeQueueUserWorkItem [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: and in linux [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: the Klein Bottle pretty much is fail 100% of the time [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: hi quilzi [11:32] Sarah Kline: ( [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its a very nasty script [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: have you tried any of those other fire and forget methods in mono lately? [11:33] Sarah Kline: hi quilzi [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: they dont work well at all [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm wondering if the mono built-in threadpool implementation has changed [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: the only option in Linux is smarththreadpool [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its possible it has changed, but its effect on opensimulator are the same [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect the problem is in opensimulator [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its far from perfect in windows and linux [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i just think .net has the ability to recover better [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: to handle sloppy code [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: typical microsoft thinking [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: well, one of the whole ideas of a vm is to save coders from themselves [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: how is the profiles stuff? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I think the problem too is that OpenSimulator is probably a lot more harsh than most applications written specifically for mono [11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: I'd say that's a given [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: actually Nalates didnt show up this week [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: which is a shame [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, opensimulator is at the extreme end - huge number of threads and doing things like dynamically loadingunloading stuff [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we didnt get a chance to test BlueWalls fixes [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: she seemed to be the only one able to trigger it [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: it wouldnt' surprise me if it's the one of the most intense things running on mono [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: well there may be more intense things [11:37] BlueWall Slade: I have seen some web server test on it lately [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but i doubt they are apps that 1 person could generate that kind of load [11:37] BlueWall Slade: so, maybe they're gearing up to our level now [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: think thats light use blue :) [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: web server test? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya there is supposed to be a Web Server written in mono [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that rivals apache [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of performance [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: lol [11:38] BlueWall Slade: I forget where I saw it - burt it was some php implementation running on mono [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i have seen it too [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: cant be good a .net webserver [11:38] BlueWall Slade: orchard [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I think you saw, but they took my patch btw [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats it orchard [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya I did see that [11:38] BlueWall Slade: cool [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: so hopefully that problem will go away in the next mono release [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: nice [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: the occasional networking one to do with http [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: how's the osgrid doing? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: good, plazas are running well [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: we had a pretty big load on Bade Plaza for town hall meeting other day [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall the final count [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it had to be near 30 avatars [11:41] dan banner: also passing a fair amout of inventory to HG users still causes the sim to hang [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: what happens at a town hall meeting? [11:41] sim core: :-J I must say, the latest version seems to be doing quite well, great job the developpers [11:41] BlueWall Slade: have you put any more telehubs out? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: we do Town Hall once a month [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: talk about various grid related things [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, I see other people complaining about performance drops [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's so hard to tell with a project this complex [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:41] sim core: :-J Well, from what I have seen [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i take those complaints with a grain of salt [11:42] sim core: MAybe the script engine needs some tweaking [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: you can rez 1 script [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: for now the latest version is very good, its still good after 12 days up [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: that can drop your sims performance significantly [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: SL script ? [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, scripts are an absolute bugger for that [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes people are building and building and building [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: and then they update [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: and things appear to drop in performance [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: not done much scripting last time. besides some i wrote in opensim. curious if that script you talk about have many llSLeep commands ? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: when in reality something they rezzed is the actual cause [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: so many times ive seen people say updatied and perfromance drops [11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Bad scripts of course aren't unique to OS. SL has the same problem. So does php and some others too. [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: so they go back and things dont improve [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, os is more vulnerable to bad scripts atm [11:43] sim core: :-J Right, only cases I saw was, I needed to put scuplted prims phantom then the performances were back up [11:43] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         0007711: 2012-03-01 03:23:10 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its vulnerable to good scripts too unfortunately [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe xengine will start to get some focus soon [11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Bad code is bad code. Make it bad enough and it'll break anything lol [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, speed build. you need to give yourself sometime a kick for that. lol think i build sometime sto fast to [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: things like timers, sensors loops [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: can really degrade things [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: opensimaultor has an additional problem of trying to stop bad-coding killing th esim :) [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... friends list still seems broken. Justin isn't showing as online. [11:44] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         0007711: 2012-03-01 03:23:10 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: we're just like mono except one level further up [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I have heard that friends list is dodgy [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: can. i used it much a few months ago. but it worked fine. but if you use to much things get unreliable with sensors [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly that may be something due top the fac tthat I very quickly logged off then on again? I hit the wrong button in my viewer [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: probably [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, the poeple that complain ? linux, windows ? and wich mono ? do you know ? [11:45] sim core: :-J SPeed bug [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it will be very difficult in a big open grid like osgrid to make friends work 100% reliably [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: there are some weakesses around logging on/off [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: but friends should really work if you're both in the same sim ;) [11:45] BlueWall Slade: you can log on more than once [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus there are no lines really in terms of people complaining [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: If I don't get time to look at the windows issues soon I might put that auto switch into AppDomainLoading [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: it shouldn't be very difficult to do - it's easy to know if the runtime is on Windows or something else [11:47] dan banner: ty justin [11:47] sim core: :-J Sounds good [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: hey dahlia [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: I do have to say [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that I think memory usage in OpenSim has gone down here at Wright Plaza [11:48] BlueWall Slade: Hello Dahlia [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: after changing from mono 2.10.6 to mono 2.10.8 [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ive been noticing last few days that memory is much lower here [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno if its mono or opensim [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect mono because memory at Lbsa plaza is not good [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: am happy with 2.10.8 [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: I think more likely mono right now [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its actually worse than Wright Plaza [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: memory go nice a few 100MB up and down to [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: lbsa is still mono 2.10.6 [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i need to get it updated [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: there are ways that opensim could improve memory as well [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: by getting rid of a lot of useless duplicate parameters on SceneObjectPart [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: like last night i noticed Wright Plaza was running for 48 hours [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: and moving that into SceneObjectGroup instead [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and show stats said 736mb memory [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: thats really good for this sim [11:50] dan banner: ya i doubt lbsa could do that [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: right now its showing 1200mb aprox [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, have you ever noticed sim lockups on plaza sims [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: or has it just been in other grids? [11:50] dan banner: usually 20 hours in its well over 1gb [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, recent ones [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: nothing like what i have seen in other testing no [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:51] OtakuMegane Desu: Even so, that doesn't sound too bad, given it's lbsa [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I am quite certain I know why too [11:51] dan banner: its better unless someone gives an HG visitor inventory [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have some things to show you later Justin [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I think I'm going to see if I can extend xengine stats to show number of sensors, listeners, etc. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: cool [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: can HG inventory not go on seperate thread ? so it dont jams trhe opensim core ? [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: what I will show you later should convince you of how bad Xengine is [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: heh [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: some stats charts ive been gathering [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I will be around later but not immediately after this meeting [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ok thats fine [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i might not even be ready to show you today [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: there might be thing sto improve there [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: might be tommorow [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ok, no rush for me [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ok [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: I have a few simple scripts that eat up a core on my server but they really shouldnt because they are event driven and the events dont happen that often [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: That sounds odd [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: do they use Timers Dahlia? [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: are events (still) borked ? i heared someone complaining. but maby where a script error to .. [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: Timers are the devil [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: ya theres one timer i the object [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats probably why [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: lots of link messages [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: a simple timer really shouldn't do that [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: wich timers you mean nebadon ? the timer event i always understand thats best one [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: - [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm getting quite a lot of packet loss here [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: I can have many copies of the object running in SL and hardly uses any scrript time [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: my viewer is showing 0.0% packet loss [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: but opensim.. it saturates a core with just one [11:55] dan banner: mine says 0 too [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah me too agin now, it's transitory [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: justin i saw a lagg spike here in chat [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: bizarre [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, scirpting really does need work [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: the way it handles threads is bad [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that and physics are the two big areas atm [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from various bugs like the parcel crashing and still that caps inventory (for me) [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I agree that physics can be improved [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: but in terms of what causes more problems in OpenSim [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: only problem i saw and have are slow sensors :O [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: and then there's unimplemented stuff like multi-attachment :) [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: scripting is 10:1 worse than physics [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear you [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: but... worked months ago around it. hope to start soon again [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya sensors are another bugger [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: I think scripting stuff gets important, people from other grid, have to many probems :O [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that said, you can still do a lot with Xengine [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its not all bad [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: for now i have not missed anything. [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: ya its amazing it works as well as it does [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: just a few quirky behaviors that can derail things bad [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a very complex area [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and get something to eat [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: k [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks around [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: 32652 prims here. !! swhoo [12:00] dan banner: bye justin [12:00] Taarna Welles: Bon apetite [12:00] BlueWall Slade: bye [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: bye [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: curious howmuch it fdropped when everybody is gone [12:00] Twisted Stickfigure: Later [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to go eat some junk food :) [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: mmmm junk food [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Justin [12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to go walkies in a bit. [12:01] BlueWall Slade: cheetos [12:01] Taarna Welles: Got to go too [12:01] Taarna Welles: Bey bye