Chat log from the meeting on 2020-07-21

[11:02] Ada Radius: sounds like.... Kayaker is in the building. Hi Kayaker

[11:02] Cuga Rajal: Security to the transporter room

[11:02] Ada Radius: Hi Ubit

[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:02] Kayaker Magic: Hi Ada! And everyone else!

[11:02] Ubit Umarov: hi

[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, I did a fix in llface

[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Cuga

[11:02] Ada Radius: Hi Andrew

[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in this commit: https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/dayturn-viewer/commits/c3aca10c3fb28a3cbaa5357572057d01c2bff5ee

[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker

[11:04] Cuga Rajal: Hi Kayaker

[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew

[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Gavin: I downloaded a copy of the FireStorm sources the other day! Just to search the code for LL file formats. I don't suppose I can build the Windows version on Linux? What tools do you need to build it on Windows?

[11:05] Cuga Rajal: I was able to reproduce the proken bake on login, using a generic sim, empty OS database and 2 Ruths in diff windows

[11:05] Cuga Rajal: Issue not related to mesh

[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have no idea what you need for FS. I have never built it

[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: don't they have build instructions?

[11:06] Ubit Umarov: they do, and kinda work

[11:06] Bill Blight: just be sure you don't follow the outdated fs build instructions, they were both still posted last time I looked

[11:06] Cuga Rajal: BRB.. going to test my issue with FS beta

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: guess they will move to 2017 now

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Setting up the environment needed to do a build of a viewer for the first time isn't easy. The instructions provided on the FS (or was it sing site) has the informatoin on building it. It should be possible to cross-compile but the build instructions are usually restricted to native builds.

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: think there is a viewer using 2019

[11:07] Bill Blight: I was building my FS fork on windows without an issue .. Need to get back to that with all the new changes

[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL have moved to boost.fiber, so a lot of newer code breaks unless you do the same

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: andrew there is a public beta of fs now

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: win mac or linux?

[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I haven't built FS in a while.

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: http://downloads.firestormviewer.org/preview/windows/Phoenix-FirestormOS-Betax64-6-4-5-60798_Setup.exe

[11:09] Bill Blight: https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_compiling_firestorm

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: note that it is a eep viewer

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: some things will not work unless on 0.9.2

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: at least you need some assets from 0.9.2

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: i placed a prim at lbsa for HG visitors to get them

[11:11] Ubit Umarov: well rainbow is now outadted again :)

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The FS site doesn't make it easy to find the preview releases.

[11:11] Ubit Umarov: older viewers did include some assets, eep ones don't

[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably on purpose

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Gavin

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: they do hide previews a lot

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: u need to be member of a sl group etc

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: and they only mk it public just bf a release

[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I went to look for a preview release of 6.4.5 for Linux and couldn't find it. I can build it from source if I want the preview version.

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: uff pressure to release 0.9.2

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: http://downloads.firestormviewer.org/preview/linux/Phoenix_FirestormOS-Beta_x86_64_6.4.5.60798.tar.xz

[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, ty

[11:13] Bill Blight: if you build current FS source you always get the latest preview or beyond

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: unless your a lazy and have one months old :p

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: such a pain to compile :)

[11:14] Bill Blight: but check for branches, sometimes a particular developer will work on a branch

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: so whats new in the opensim ?

[11:15] Bill Blight: geeze it takes a long time to load a 10gig IAR

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: lol

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: lets see if next week you wont say the same :P

[11:16] Ubit Umarov: well on code side, i added a few assets for eep, changed others

[11:17] Bill Blight: it's already been loading for over 24 hours

[11:17] Bill Blight: LOL

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: currently a New Daycycle only has one sky on the tracks

[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: :)

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: sl one is just like the defualt with some 8 or so

[11:17] Bill Blight: Have not updated this region with the latest two commits, will do that after the meeting

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: i could make that also.. but don't like the idea :p

[11:18] Bill Blight: as per the norm, ubit pushed changes right before the meeting

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: those will not work here

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: its entries to opensim inventory

[11:18] Bill Blight: yeah need robust library assets

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: osgrid did not update robust

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeah

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: weli i only made visble the fixed skies assets

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: not in the mood of adding the 200 ones sl did :p

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: ie all those viewers used to have in xml

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: btw last time i checked eep viewer fails to import most of them

[11:20] Bill Blight: yeah tested a few

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: fails to import the xml files it includes.. duhh

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: you can use a WL one... import to region, then save with the eep viewer

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: yeack..

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: well i did some like that

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: you are just in the hands of my conversion code :p

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: so what else is new?

[11:22] Cuga Rajal: New FS beta fixes my issue

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: cool

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: glad i did nothing :p

[11:23] Cuga Rajal: Surprised I couldnt find it in their Jira

[11:24] Cuga Rajal: Doesnt matter now :)

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: it also fixes that silly crash with meshes

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: but again, not sure how well it wil work on regions older than 0.9.2

[11:25] Cuga Rajal: Was there an issue with using UTF8MB4 for the db vs vanilla UTF8

[11:25] Cuga Rajal: ?

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: guess i will need to release 0.9.2 when they do

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: yes

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: one table blows up

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: index 2 large

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: think a groups v2 table

[11:26] Cuga Rajal: I had already been using that for a while on standalone HG.. not aware of issues

[11:26] Cuga Rajal: Ohhh group

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: it is one table

[11:27] Cuga Rajal: I was having weird issues.. can I just switch encodings to fix?

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: utf3mb3 works

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: and utf8mb3 even better

[11:27] Bill Blight: lol

[11:27] Cuga Rajal: I don't really need MB3 that was just the default when I set it up

[11:28] Cuga Rajal: I mean MB4

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: thing mysql does default to mb3

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: maria depends on the linux distro

[11:28] Bill Blight: mariadb defaults to mb4

[11:28] Cuga Rajal: So any of those will work for groups, just not mb4?

[11:28] Bill Blight: (on most distros)

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well our genetic recomendation is mb3

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: (mb4 is such a stupid waste of memory also gezz )

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: amasing how bad utf and unicode is

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: wel uft is suposed to be variable size

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: but dbs make it fixed

[11:30] Cuga Rajal: I just checked my instance and all os_groups_* are vanilla utf8

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: and the ones that suport uuid store is as text.. Gezzz

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: in some cases mb4 text

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: so.. 36x4 bytes

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: just stupid

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: and ppl ask why computers are slow even at 5GHz

[11:32] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: hi

[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby

[11:33] Bill Blight: Howdy Selby

[11:34] Ada Radius: Hi Selby

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: duhh outdated box lol

[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so what's new with IMA Selby?

[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby

[11:35] Ubit Umarov: ok this is the one with references to the needed eep assets

[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: nothing reslly new at IMA yet--more delays

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: also a test sky that makes rainbow show up

[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh delays. We hate that

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: rainbow is not updated at osg still

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: a older grid with this assets may allow a eep viewer to work

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but no env edting etc

[11:38] Ubit Umarov: without them viewer will cry a lot abotu missing assets

[11:39] Object: Script running

[11:39] Object: Script running, but who cares...

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: silence..

[11:40] Kayaker Magic:

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: so no more news?

[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: I tried to build FS but it isn't as easy as the instructions make it out to be.

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: need the exactl autobuild, cmake, etc

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: a pain

[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, got it. I hadn't set the env var properly that points to an autobuild variables file.

[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Now it is needing some different dependencies. I'll look at that later.

[11:43] Bill Blight: just an FYI, around the 5th of next month I'll be shutting down my public grid .. Still going to have a test grid that can work on though ..

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ( no wonder no news.. our moderator is crashing his pc building fs )

[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What was the size of the grid, Bill?

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: Bill and his alts

[11:44] Bill Blight: lol

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: no, it isn't crashing. Just spitting errors trying to build.

[11:44] Ubit Umarov runs and hides

[11:44] Bill Blight: well had over 300 peeps, then 50, then 20, then 10

[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ( some say osgrid is all Dan and his alts also )

[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe

[11:45] Bill Blight: Also when you let your users have their way, they will become resource hogs in a split second .... I did not think it was possible for a region to use 300% CPU

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: linux 300% is odd

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: only means 3 cores

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just give them a small CPU

[11:46] Bill Blight: (to be clear, that just means 3 cores)

[11:46] Bill Blight: yes was typing that

[11:46] Bill Blight: LOL

[11:46] Bill Blight: but still the most the next region is using is 7%

[11:47] Bill Blight: (real reason is, between my health and money just can't take the stress right now)

[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: The most likely cause of the CPU usage is bad scripts. Next would be a physics issue.

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: so 300% is nothing on yr xeons

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: :p

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: 28 cores?

[11:48] Bill Blight: it is bad scripts for sure, I delete, they put them back, endless cycle ..

[11:48] Bill Blight: I got rid of that home box

[11:48] Bill Blight: was using wayyyyy too much power and too much heat

[11:48] Bill Blight: so no more big IBM server at home for me

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: yeah those things just eat electric power

[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, just run it in the winter. ;)

[11:49] Bill Blight: hehe

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ha, we sued to have site inspections when we sold a server system (IBM RS/600) to make sure the customer had enough power

[11:49] Cuga Rajal: I'm running a region on an air cooled Mac Mini 16GB LOL

[11:49] Bill Blight: I actually did that at our old house, in the winter I shut off the heat to my office and just warmed it with the servers

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: RS/6000

[11:50] Kayaker Magic: In mild winters I can heat my office off the GPU heat output.

[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Makes sense to shut down the grid if it isn't getting much use.

[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the larger servers needed 3-phase 400volt

[11:50] Bill Blight: I have a couple quad core xeons and a couple 8 cores still might fire them back up now that I have better internet .. That is if I ever get the power and network run ... they want 1000 to run it

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: it was the IBM 370 that had the psu powered by 3 phase midvoltage lines? ( 20KV or so )

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: ie industrial power line

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: possibly

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the entire IBM building in Oslo was heated from the machines in the basement

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: :)

[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so when a customer upgraded from one generation machine to the next they saved $90000 on the power bill per year

[11:54] Ada Radius: for that they could get a whole lot of solar panels. Well maybe not so far north

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: solar panels don't work in Norway in the winter

[11:54] Ada Radius: ya

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually most of the year

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: wind turbines should work

[11:55] Ada Radius: there ya go

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the entire country runs on hydroelectic power anyway

[11:55] Ada Radius: does that make it cheap?

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes

[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour. Any last questions/comments related to OpenSim for today?

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: hydroelectic is the cheapest form

[11:55] Ada Radius: if you have water

[11:56] Cuga Rajal: if not privatized

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: even if you build a huge dam

[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: usually $0.02 per kWh

[11:56] Ada Radius: I have solar, but I'm in California. Works there.

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: california got power from hover

[11:57] Ada Radius: incredibly expensive otherwise. power companies are mostly corrupt

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: guess still a big part of cali power?

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well think water is a lot worse thing there

[11:57] Ada Radius: I don't know - they charge too much. Water too scarce probably

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well seen a tv doc once..

[11:58] Ada Radius: Portugal? about the same as here

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: big corruption

[11:58] Cuga Rajal: I did an oar/iar export and restore on trunk a few days ago, and couldn't log in, got console errors

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: hmm well for now we do have water..

[11:58] Cuga Rajal: Not sure if thats something you care about]

[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, do you remember the specific error messages you were seeing?

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but at south water is becaming a problem

[11:59] Ada Radius: southern California, serious water problems

[11:59] Cuga Rajal: They were related to "not an instance",, seemed like conflicting entity types

[11:59] Cuga Rajal: I can capture it if theres interest

[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you fix it?

[12:00] Cuga Rajal: I never do oar restores so it doesnt matter much to me... I always back uyp mysqldump

[12:00] Cuga Rajal: I tried it just for that avatar render bug as an experiment

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: oar is the proper way actually

[12:02] Ada Radius: who is working on the avatar render bug now?

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: not all things get into mysql

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: like local assets

[12:02] Cuga Rajal: That bug is fixed on the latest Dayturn and FS beta

[12:03] Cuga Rajal: Was broken on both so I thought it might be server

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: all blame poor servers :p

[12:03] Ada Radius: haa

[12:03] Cuga Rajal: lol

[12:03] Ada Radius: well, if I can see my avatar, and you can't, ya, the server

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: fs now seems very lazy showing avatars

[12:04] Cuga Rajal: That was the symptom

[12:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye all

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: so see Ada today i had to zoom in

[12:04] Ada Radius: Bye Selby

[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby.

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans

[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lazy, huh?

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: wel fs beta

[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is that a trix for hiding bad performance?

[12:05] Ada Radius: I've been testing Ruth2, I probably borked my avatar until I log out, reboot, log back.

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: and if busy, even worse

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: most time i log at lbsa with clear cache i don't see some mesh avatars

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: i have to relog

[12:05] Cuga Rajal: Roth hasn't been updated in such a long time

[12:06] Ada Radius: yes. Roth2v2 came out a few weeks ago

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: told fs dev.. of course opensim servers

[12:06] Cuga Rajal: Oh? cool

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: but i managed to get the same at sl

[12:06] Ada Radius: Available at the RuthAndRoth sim and at the github

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: guess viewer does timeout getting the mesh assets

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: and flags that as broken until relog

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: a tp out and back does not fis that

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: irritating

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: Ahhh

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: and on tps, EEP viewers may set the enviroment of the parcel on the SENDING region

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: the stupid things ask for the parcel env to the wrong region

[12:08] Ada Radius: Ruth2v4 coming out soon. Probably the last one, I think we've pushed the low-poly mesh body as far as it can go, given the viewer Character limitations.

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: just they do displaynames, textures etc

[12:08] Cuga Rajal: Ohh good to know..

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: a timming thing there for ages

[12:09] Cuga Rajal: Is Ruth Island best place to get an assembled one? was a lot of work piecing together from source

[12:10] Ada Radius: yes. RuthAndRoth sim - OSGrid

[12:10] Ada Radius: Serie Sumai did the HUDs and assembling.

[12:10] Cuga Rajal: Ohh I havent been to thgat one, thx I'll check out

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: we lost a Bill

[12:10] Cuga Rajal: Was going to off-grid place for a while

[12:11] Bill Blight: hehe

[12:11] Ada Radius: Shin Ingen's sims have been shut down for quite a while. Hyacinth Landry shut her sims down a few months ago. RuthAndRoth is the "official" distribution place. Though the closed grid people have to do their own downloading and assembling.

[12:13] Ada Radius: Ai Austin hosts RuthAndRoth with University of Edinburgh servers, at least lately.

[12:13] Cuga Rajal: In early days it was only available at Ruth Plaza in HGLuv

[12:13] Ada Radius: no - Shin had them too. Harder to find.

[12:14] Cuga Rajal: aah

[12:14] Ada Radius: He did the original topology for the bodies. I did the Bento heads and the rigging. A bunch of people contributed to UV mapping.

[12:14] Cuga Rajal: I downloaded everything from github but was a pita to assemble

[12:14] Ada Radius: it is indeed

[12:15] Ubit Umarov: mb ask Dan for a spot at wright?

[12:15] Cuga Rajal: Do you have a LM to RuthAndRoth?

[12:15] Ada Radius: I stick to my wheelhouse - topology, vertex weighting and UV mapping, occasionally straying into skin textures, for the project. Fortunately Serie and Ai are willing to do the rest.

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: possible you can have a little shop there also

[12:16] Cuga Rajal: Not coming up on search

[12:16] Cuga Rajal: Ah, thank you :)

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: well don't know who managed wright.. but Dan knows :p

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: manages..

[12:16] Ada Radius: ya, if you just type Ruth it doesn't show up

[12:16] Ada Radius: it should, don't know why it doesn't

[12:17] Cuga Rajal: I typed RuthAndRoth

[12:17] Ada Radius: the search engine in OS is a mystery...

[12:17] Cuga Rajal: agreed

[12:17] Ubit Umarov: i did type ruth on map and got 2

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: ohh search

[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks nods

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: the region needs to have datasnapshot active i think

[12:18] Ada Radius: I have found it coming from Kitely, via search, but not within OSGrid. And not reliably from Kitely.

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: check if region has datasnap active

[12:20] Ada Radius: here's the hop: hop://login.osgrid.org/RuthAndRoth/128/128/26

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: it does show up on map :p

[12:20] Ada Radius: and more links here: https://github.com/RuthAndRoth/Ruth2

[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Its 20 past the hour. If there is nothing more for today we can call this meeting done and dusted and go our separate ways until next week.

[12:22] Cuga Rajal: This is a diff github project than what I was using..

[12:22] Cuga Rajal: Did Shin stop working on it?

[12:22] Ada Radius: ya it's showing up in Map from my version of FS - I haven't upgraded since BoM though

[12:23] Ada Radius: yes, Shin left the project about a year ago I think.

[12:23] Ubit Umarov: im with the eep public beta now

[12:23] Cuga Rajal: Good to know..

[12:23] Ada Radius: I'm the lead dev, Ai Austin is project leader, Serie Sumai is doing all the scripting and HUD making. A little input from other people - Sean Heavy, Duck Girl.

[12:23] Cuga Rajal: Awesome

[12:24] Cuga Rajal: There was a period when not much was happening...

[12:24] Ada Radius: Sean has other versions out on the sim too.

[12:24] Cuga Rajal: Glad to see new developments TY

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: so that cat is ruth or roth ?

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: :p

[12:25] Kayaker Magic: lol

[12:25] Ada Radius: a long time, yes. It will come to an end probably some time this year, then I'll start working on a better system avatar, if I find viewer devs who want to work on that. I don't want to go the route of Athena/Maitreya and the high poly hundreds of scripts mesh body

[12:25] Ada Radius: haaaa. This cat is an avatar I made for Avatar Repertory Theater in 2010. No mesh, a little retro sculpty

[12:26] Ada Radius: (the ears)

[12:26] Ada Radius: I don't like to be complex...

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: cuja is the winner on that here :p

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: 106K complexity

[12:27] Bill Blight: Andrew is 330k

[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wow

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: Ohh shame

[12:27] Cuga Rajal: Andrew is a blob on my viewer lol

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: :)

[12:28] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess above the jellyblabla level

[12:28] Ada Radius: Selby always wins if he's in the meeting - 1000. He made his avatar in 2005 I think. I did the import to OSGrids for him.

[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe

[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to find good looking clothing that has a simpler mesh.

[12:28] Ubit Umarov: mine is also simple

[12:29] Cuga Rajal: You can wear system pants and shirt and still be 1000

[12:29] Bill Blight: LOL, yeah somethings never change, death, taxes, Selby's avatar

[12:29] Ada Radius: hair and shoes

[12:29] Ubit Umarov: just did add the headphones and mask

[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Some people I know in another grid complained about my poor looking avatar and tried to get me to upgrade its look.

[12:29] Ada Radius: I replicated it for one of his browser worlds too - Selby is iconic

[12:30] Ubit Umarov: i got kicked from a land bc of look :p

[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: My avatar seldom changes appearance.

[12:30] Bill Blight: I have that same outfit Andrew, and it is horribly made

[12:30] Ada Radius: Some people think you have to have half a million in complexity just to play with the cool crowd

[12:30] Ubit Umarov: "get a modern mesh avatar..."

[12:31] Ubit Umarov: they don't know ruth is the "modern" avatar

[12:31] Ada Radius: when you go shopping, ctl-shift-r and look at the wire.

[12:31] Ubit Umarov: meshed ones are just hacks

[12:31] Ada Radius: why I got interested in a new system avatar.

[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I may have a look at the Ruth and roth region before I leave.

[12:33] Ada Radius: It's pretty simple. Serie and I have workshops on piers to the north and east. Distribution shelves toward the center

[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: At the half past mark now. I need to get going. I'll call this meeting to a close.

[12:33] Bill Blight: people go polygon crazy

[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming and see you again next week.

[12:33] Ada Radius: Thank you everyone! I go play RL....

[12:33] Ubit Umarov: :)

[12:33] Ada Radius: purring and catnip