Chat log from the meeting on 2010-04-06

[09:28] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:28] Connected [09:30] Entering god mode, level 255 [09:55] Richardus Raymaker is Online [09:59] WhiteStar Magic is Online [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: hey guys [09:59] WhiteStar Magic: Hey Neb [10:00] WhiteStar Magic: brb [10:00] WhiteStar Magic: afk [10:01] Zac Zeurra: Wow [10:01] Zac Zeurra: Textures are slow compared to Simian [10:01] Zac Zeurra: hehe [10:01] Zac Zeurra: im DannyBisby vtw [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi whitestar, nebadon [10:01] Zac Zeurra: btw* [10:01] Zac Zeurra: hi RiRa [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi zac [10:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [10:01] Zac Zeurra: Hi Jusin [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hello justin [10:02] Zac Zeurra: Justin [10:02] Zac Zeurra: Chat lag :( [10:02]  Zac Zeurra: Server is in the red [10:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: it wasn't rebooted before the meeting? [10:03]  Nebadon Izumi: it was rebooted a bit ago [10:03]  Nebadon Izumi: not long [10:03]  Zac Zeurra: No idea [10:03]  Nebadon Izumi: about 1 hour ago this region was restarted [10:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: shoudl be fine, then :) [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think so [10:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not experiencing any chat lag [10:03] Richardus Raymaker: for now i see not much problems [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: im using Hippo 0.6.2 today [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: had to install it for some simian testing [10:04] WhiteStar Magic: Hi to all who just arrived [10:05] Dave Coyle is Online [10:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello [10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how is it? [10:05] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Guess I'll stand. It won't let me sit [10:05] Zac Zeurra: Im running one too Justin [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi [10:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi andrew [10:05] Zac Zeurra: From what i see its very good [10:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Justin [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: try to sit again [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: its working well so far [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: has some issues with being able to buy land here in OSgrid with 0.6.2 [10:06] Zac Zeurra agrees with Nebadon [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: and for me hi-resolution screenshots are broken [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: but other than those 2 things it works great [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: so what else is going on? [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything interesting their testing ? [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: whitetsar, where can you report the hippo bugs ? yu told me last week. [10:08] Tesira Luco is Offline [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: you can report them on forge [10:08] WhiteStar Magic: http://mjm-labs.com/viewer/support.php [10:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, what kind of issue trying to buy land? [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: is memory useage with the new comeing version betetr. or do we need some corks for a wjile ? :) [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/opensim-viewer/tracker/?action=TrackerItemBrowse&tracker_id=92 [10:09]  Penny Lane: Neb: now that Imprudence have ceased support SL officially because of the TPV and are officially supporting Opensim instead, you might get your video crash bug fixed :-) [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i think alot of the memory issues are more mono related [10:09] Samantha Fuller is Online [10:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah. I knew something was missing. Took a while for the cushions to appear [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: i agree :( [10:10]  Richardus Raymaker: i mis the CG in mono [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: Perhaps penny, i am not that excited about them breaking away from SL support [10:10]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm GC. :) [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: id rather see people work on Naali if they arent going to support SL [10:10]  Zac Zeurra: Cant you suggest that to them? [10:10] Penny Lane: Neb: can't be helped. Blame the moronic lawyers [10:11] Richardus Raymaker: i heared emerald will stay support SL. it seems many others retire [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya i just hate to see people use the LL code who arent contributing back to LL [10:11]  Orion Hax: the new nallii update looks promiseing [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: id rather see those people take 6 months off [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: then work on Naali [10:11] Samantha Fuller is Online [10:11] Penny Lane: Yes, Emerald apparently are going to stay in SL. Trouble is, Emerald devs mostly hate Opensim and say nasty things about it. [10:11] Richardus Raymaker: let us know when naali is good to test nebadon [10:12] Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:12] Zac Zeurra: i tried it the other day and i couldn't ge tin [10:12] WhiteStar Magic: nebadon, when did LL/SL ever take something the outside devs did and put into their viewer ? [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: I cant speak for the Entire OS dev team, but i imagine most are not much interested in supporting LL based viewers that dont support SL [10:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: Probably best not to mention the new version 2 LL viewer. :-) [10:12] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, the emerald devs are never in SL i guess. then the know wich grid is better [10:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: I personally don't care - if a viewer works then it works [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: well they do it all the time [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: they have used patches from Nicholas [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: and others [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: Kirsten [10:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: the source code is out there and people can do what they want with in within the license [10:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I'm with you on that. I use Hippo and it works for me so I don't feel the need to try out other viewers. [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: probably even Mana [10:13]  Zac Zeurra: Yeah agreed too [10:13]  Richardus Raymaker: dont say that word andrew :) only that ltes me bflip :) [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: everyone will do what they think is best, for me though i am not at all excited about supporting anything LL based anymroe really [10:14] Samantha Fuller is Online [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: viewer wise [10:14] Richardus Raymaker: i have that with emerald 1.2.0 it works good. so i stay with it until better comes [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: id rather wait it out for Naali or something else at this point [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya hippo is working fine for me really [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: might be cool if we could evenutually support some of the SL 2.0 features [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: like the media stuff [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think that will happen sometime [10:15] Richardus Raymaker: i think with naali it can be better then with SL2 [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: but then viewers like naali are free to use that facility too [10:15] Penny Lane: Nicolaz has stopped supporting SL because of the TPV, and cancelled his SL accounts -- https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-April/001554.html [10:15] Penny Lane: Same as Hurli [10:15] Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: hurliman cancelled his sl accounts? [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya i mean why continue to use SL code if your not going to contribute it back to SL [10:16]  Richardus Raymaker: im not happy with LL to penny. the push me more and more outy. :O as olong i can stay out. [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: seems pointless to me [10:16]  WhiteStar Magic: funny, front page of Hippo says Hippo for OpenSim [10:16] Penny Lane: That's what we had pasted to us in SL chat, yep. Latif was on the IRC channel and told us [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: because of it's the largest install base and does represent many man yaers of work :) [10:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: ? [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: well im not saying break anything [10:16]  Richardus Raymaker: SL is just uhmm screwed nbad. and the not make it betetr. and spend time to wrong things like SL2 viewer. [10:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: penny: I'm gonna keep mine - but then, I'm a moralless pragmatist :) [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: im just saying why continue to use and develope their viewer [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: when its so restrictive to do so [10:17]  Penny Lane: Neb: it's not pointless. If LL shafts open source devs, they get shafted back. [10:17] Dahlia Trimble: hi [10:17]  Samantha Fuller is Online [10:17] Penny Lane: Opensim's future is far beyond SL's [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess i just rather see productive work be done on Naali [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: which is lacking devs [10:17] Richardus Raymaker: i go with nebadon.. [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: fair enough [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: not that they arent being productive [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: just that more devs would be good [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [10:17] Penny Lane: I'm betting on Naali too [10:18] Penny Lane: Hi Dahlia :-) [10:18]  WhiteStar Magic: bt till Naaliu is ready, we need something taht will work for us and give us teh support & tools for OpenSim, regardless of where it originated [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: i would be more comfortable with Imprudence if they didnt cut off SL [10:18]  Richardus Raymaker: im inressted in naali. but waiting for a bit more ready version. then i go look [10:18]  WhiteStar Magic: Hi Dahlia [10:18]  Dahlia Trimble: viewer wars? [10:18]  WhiteStar Magic: there is nothing in the LGPL that says it must be returned to LL [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: oh i know [10:19]  Richardus Raymaker: whitestar all viewers that are based on 1.22. code ? seems that works best for opensim [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: im just saying we should want to [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: if were going to take their code [10:19]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: we should be willing keep things connected [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: not build walls [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I think the argument would be that the lindens are forcing them to do it [10:19]  Penny Lane: Neb: they didn't cut off SL, it's just no longer the officially supported platform. They removed the entry for SL in the grid panel, so you have to put it in again yourself --- not hard. Purely politics and legal maneuvering, because of the daft TPV. [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think they abandon SL lightly [10:20] WhiteStar Magic: Ohh I agree Neb but the point is they are diverging with SL 2 anyways, so what is really the crux of it... we get useability and they move in their own direction anyways [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: well their website says next version will not allow conenctivity to Sl [10:20]  Dahlia Trimble: Im not aware of any effort to drop SL viewer compatability from OpenSim core [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: im not suggesting we do either [10:20] Penny Lane: LL is diverging itself, with Viewer2.0. Do you always want to be chasing LL's tail lights? [10:20] Dahlia Trimble: I've been planning on adding some viewer 2.0 support, but havent had time lately [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: no, thats why we need people to drop the LL viewer [10:21] Richardus Raymaker: No penny. no SL2 for me.. until the fix a big design bug. [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: and work on Naali [10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: what kind of stuff? [10:21] Dahlia Trimble: the media on a prim stuff [10:21] Penny Lane: Rich: yep [10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: well, the 6 month thing is a big barrier [10:21] control break: the Viewer2.0 looks more than a 3D facebook than "my world, my imagination" [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: im not saying we should cut off LL based viewers [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: im just saying if your not interested in supportin LL [10:21]  Nebadon Izumi: then dont use thier code [10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: cool - I always want to look at that too but I don't get time either [10:22] WhiteStar Magic: divisions and barriers are mounting everywhere... [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I like LL, it's just that the mgmt don't really know what they're doing [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: im not arguing the rights and wrongs of LL in general [10:22] WhiteStar Magic: +1 JCC' [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: SL viewer looks and feels for me. like a card with the steer t the wrong side. the break and gas paddles reversed. and all controls ar changed and at other places. og i forgot that the steer is at the back seat. [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: card = car [10:22] Dahlia Trimble: I have nothing against LL, I use SL quite a bit [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: im just saying to me the right thing would be not to use their code [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe drop a note if you do start working on it? Wouldn't want to duplicate work :) [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: if your so against their policy [10:22]  Dahlia Trimble: jcc, sure [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: the only real way to protest, is to not use thier code [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: heh wow lag [10:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: test [10:24]  Dahlia Trimble: I had the relevant Caps messages decoded but the pastebins expired :( [10:24] Richardus Raymaker: its anyway good to start to step away from LL code [10:24] Penny Lane: [2010/03/31 14:27] Latif Khalifa: hurli just cancelled his SL account :( [10:24]  Penny Lane: [2010/03/31 14:29] Latif Khalifa: "Looks like the new Third Party Viewer policy is making me choose between writing SL-compatible software and being an SL user. See you in the distributed metaverse!" [10:24]  Dahlia Trimble: wow big lag spurt [10:24]  Samantha Fuller: How much of 1.2 viewer code originated from LL employes anyway [10:24]  Samantha Fuller: :) [10:24] WhiteStar Magic: lot of TP's logins [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: probably a lot [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: personally im not against LL [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: they are going to make thier choices, we need to make ours [10:25] Richardus Raymaker: how much of the current SL server code is not from LL ? :O [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to say a very rude word now [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I just knocked a glass of water into my laptop... ngggggff [10:25] Dahlia Trimble: lol [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: oh noes [10:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev)        1d4d6c8: 2010-02-09 20:25:24 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [10:25] Dahlia Trimble: oops [10:25] WhiteStar Magic: &^@_&$&^@*&%&^%$&^#%_)(+ JCC [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: goddamnit! [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: thats the worst [10:25] Ben Daglish: hi all... [10:25]  Penny Lane: LOL JCC ... go on, release it :P [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey sighs [10:25] Dahlia Trimble: does it still work? [10:25] Richardus Raymaker: arrgh. turn it upside down [10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: it kind of powered itself off too [10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: time to buy a new laptop anyway [10:26] Ben Daglish: I heard some politics being discussed from 1000m...:) [10:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: arrrgghg [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: aww man [10:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi ben [10:26]  Dahlia Trimble: I had one that got wet, it started working again about a year later [10:26]  WhiteStar Magic: That sux JCC, hope it survives [10:26]  Penny Lane: It'll fix itself --- put it in the airing cupboard where it's warm (not hot!) [10:26]  Richardus Raymaker: wel, that need a evening laptop building. and drying [10:26]  control break: WD40 power might save your laptop [10:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: can't wait a year! :) [10:26] control break: maybe.. [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, oh that's annoying [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: please carry on [10:27]  Richardus Raymaker: good its only water [10:27] WhiteStar Magic whispers: Jcc has been secretly eyeing new goodies and needed a good reason [10:27] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, could have been some kind of pop or cola [10:27] Penny Lane: Yeah, something sweet or acidic would be bad [10:27] Penny Lane: Coke will dissolve pretty much anything [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that's something at least [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I usually put all my drinks in a special zone where my flailing arms won't know them over [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: Except for this time [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: knock [10:28] Richardus Raymaker: friend tryed it on keyboard. dont try it.. [10:28] Richardus Raymaker: drinks are behind me. never on my pc desk [10:28] Samantha Fuller: I will have to log out soon anyone have a gues for the eta of refactoring [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: Samantha its going slow [10:28] control break: no, really : this is very efficient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 [10:28] control break: seriously [10:29] Dahlia Trimble: refactoring? you mean the component stuff? [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: we cant give a ETA on any kind of change for OSgrid just yet [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: control: I'll bear that in mind :) [10:29]  Samantha Fuller: thanks anyway :) [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: but just know lots of people are working on solutions [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: multiple solutions infact [10:30] Richardus Raymaker: i really hope before summer its done .. [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: its a big problem though, lots of things need to be considered [10:30] WhiteStar Magic: data base migration from 6.9 to PR ? [10:30] control break: ^^ sure it already helps me to bring a drown Nintendo DS back to live [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: well that and the Web Interface migration [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: that will need to happen simultaneouslyt [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: but lots of good things are happening [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: just nothing i can say definitively thats the answer just yet [10:31] WhiteStar Magic: without DB migration... web interface is kinda moot for many [10:31] Dahlia Trimble: are you talking OSGrid migration to post presence-refactor OpenSim? [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: well both really [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: not just OSgrid but OpenSim core [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: i still dont think there is an upgrade path [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: of course we could script it externally [10:32] Dahlia Trimble: fwiw, I'd cast my vote that OSGrid uses the services model that's as close to the reference implementation in core as possible [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: that may not be possible dahlia [10:33] Samantha Fuller: Will refactoring make implmenting sending items via notices any easer, It seems to me that is the area of the code you are rewriting so you might want to at least include a stub or whatever [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: as the C# services are already begining to fail us [10:33]  Richardus Raymaker: dont say thats the good choice for future implemetatiions [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: because of our scale [10:33] Penny Lane: JCC: don't wait before putting the laptop somewhere warm, every minute water corrodes a little more. [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: thats why we gotta a lot of testing still to do [10:33]  Dahlia Trimble: that would be unfortunate as it would mean that OSGrid was not compatible with default opensim [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: no it wouldnt [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: unfortunately I don't have an airing cupboard of anything like that [10:34] Richardus Raymaker: maby JCC is already screweig it apart penny. i hope. [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: it would always remain compatible [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: were already not using the standard Asset server [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: because the included on fails us [10:34]  Penny Lane: JCC: any old CRT monitors around? They get hot [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: if the software doesnt scale we dont have much choice [10:34] Dahlia Trimble: right, but I mean the services model, not the implementation [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: good poitn [10:34] Richardus Raymaker: jcc you dont have some hairdryer ? [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya well nothings been decided yet [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: because honestly there is nothing useable that OSgrid can plan around yet [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: still lot of work needs doing [10:35] Penny Lane: JCC: wait -- CRT monitors have a lot of static around them, that could be bad [10:35] Dahlia Trimble: if jhurliman moves cable beach into core, then I'd consider supporting that [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: nope. every time this happens I think I should get one. I was seriously thinking about going down to the gym and blow-drying it there [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: well the simian connectors are in core now [10:35] Dahlia Trimble: but if it's external, then I prefer a ROBUST-like model [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: hi ruben [10:36] Ruben Haan: hi [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we have alot of work needs doing before we can decide either way [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: the big problem really is scale [10:37] Zac Zeurra nods [10:37] Dahlia Trimble: I also thought that simiangrid was aimed at vwrap compatibility rather than hypergrid [10:37] WhiteStar Magic: it is [10:37]  Penny Lane: There's only one way to cope with scale --- decentralize. [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: we could have double the users we do by the end of the year [10:37] Dahlia Trimble: personally I'd also prefer hypergrid [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: if LL keeps goinbg this way, yes [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: it will support both [10:37] Penny Lane: Dahlia++ [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats my understanding [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: it wont have a preference to either its just a framework [10:38] Ruben Haan: the sytem that cyberlandia has with hypergridded regions [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: though i think most of the core people now intend to implemeent the vwrap stuff 1st [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: then to hypergrid [10:38] Dahlia Trimble: which core people? the simiangrid people? [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:38] Richardus Raymaker: have a good core before go hypergrid sounds good idea for me [10:39]  Dahlia Trimble: sure, it's a vwrap implementation [10:39] Penny Lane: Hurli's model (which is merging with VWRAP) decentralizes nicely too, since everyone's assets are in a separate store, potentially. The load is distributed across the entire Internet. [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: the more people that get involved though the quicker it will go no doubt [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: the good thing though about simian is the Apache2 backed service [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: will scale a lot better than anything we could ever do with C# [10:39]  Zac Zeurra nods [10:39] Richardus Raymaker: and cross platform al;ready [10:39] WhiteStar Magic: reference for those wanting to know bmore about Simian: http://code.google.com/p/openmetaverse/ [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya even more so [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: but i dont know really [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: Robusts Lack of Web interface at all [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: makes it a tough choice [10:40] Dahlia Trimble: I'm not against simiangrid, I just dont think it's the right approach for osgrid until they have hypergrid compatibility [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: everytime Robusts changes OSGrids gotta redo their website? [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: thats my biggest fear [10:40] Penny Lane: Latif tried SimianGrid yesterday and he says it's easy and very fast. [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i really dont have answers yet though [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: we could end up with a mix of Robust/Simian services [10:41] Penny Lane: Made hsi own Simian grid [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: which is the more likely answer [10:41] Zac Zeurra: I have my own Simian grid too Penny [10:41] Zac Zeurra: Works very good [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: then would could perhaps support Hypergrid [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: via the Robust end [10:41] sim core believe if they do not have hypergrid, then it's a step too far back [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: while still uysing simain backed grid [10:41] Penny Lane: Cool Zac! I must give it a go soon [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: no [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: the intention is not to loose hypergrid [10:41] Dahlia Trimble: how can simiangrid users teleport between grids? [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: dont misunderstand that [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: well like i said its not ready for OSgrid just yet [10:42] Samantha Fuller: There is a programer (rather dificult to work with) who wants to implment voxel (3D) terrain in open sim but i dont know how that will play with SL compatablity or if it can be stuffed into a few modules [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: why were not rushing into making promises [10:42] Dahlia Trimble: I havent heard an answer to that question from the simian grid people yet [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya the answer is hypergrid support [10:42] Penny Lane: Hypergrid's not going anywhere. It's Diva's preferred model, and it's what several of us are supporting in VWRAP. [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: but right now there is none [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: Simiain will support both [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: that is the intended goal anyway [10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: samantha: yeah, extra data is often stuff in different tables, as realxtend do with meshes [10:43] Dahlia Trimble: I'd also like to see the political organizational structure of a full vwrap model, and I wont support it at all if there is a single entity controlling it from the top [10:43] Dahlia Trimble: thats why I dont like vwrap [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: well Dahlia just because simian has vwrap support [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: that does not mean OSgrid will enable it [10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: its likely we wont have a need to [10:44]  Penny Lane: Last time I spoke to Hurli he said that multiple asset services in a region were coming in Cable Beach / Simian ... just not implemented yet. So Hypergrid will be possible. [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: it will be optional [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: hey Jim [10:44] Jim Radford: howdyu [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: Jim Radford can answer some questions about simian as well [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: more technical stuff than i can [10:44] Dahlia Trimble: its all Jim's fault [10:44] WhiteStar Magic: Hi Jim, nce to see ya [10:45]  Penny Lane: Not merely "optional". Without multiple asset services there is no VW tourism. [10:45] Penny Lane: Hi Jim :-) [10:45]  Jim Radford: I have no idea what any of you are talking about :) Especially Dahlia [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:45] Dahlia Trimble: good [10:45] sim core: Hypergrid :-) [10:45]  WhiteStar Magic: admit nothing [10:45]  Penny Lane: It's OK, nobody understands Dahlia <3 :-) [10:45] Andrew Hellershanks: vwrap? [10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: hi jim [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: but just everyone keep in mind, our intention is not to cut off anything [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: or force anything on anyone [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: we want to keep it as open and flexible as we can [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: legally can of course [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: we just want the best experience we can offer for everyone who uses OSgrid [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: whatever flavor [10:46] Penny Lane: Sounds reasonable [10:46] Dahlia Trimble: well breaking compatibility with the default opensim services model is not something to be considered lightly [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I would say that applies to opensim too - there are simply too many divergent interests to cut off one direction or another. [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: of course, we can certainly talk to Jim and John and everyone involved about that [10:47] Stefan Andersson: Hey guys! [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: hey Stefan, long time no See man [10:47] Dahlia Trimble: hiya Stefan :) [10:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello stefan [10:48]  Stefan Andersson: Ya. I'm actually trying to get back on the horse, so to speak. [10:48]  Stefan Andersson: Happy to see I could log in with 2.0 beta. :) [10:48] Penny Lane: The walled garden approach is merely a subset of the Hypergrid approach. Nobody needs to be cut off by embracing the multi-asset service model :-) [10:48] Jim Radford: what issue are you talking about? [10:48]  Nebadon Izumi: oh hey Dave is here too [10:48]  Nebadon Izumi: what you guys doing down there [10:48]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:48]  Nebadon Izumi: need to head on up [10:48]  Penny Lane: Jim: the topic is roughly hypergrid and future protocols atm [10:48]  Stefan Andersson: Well, tbh I'm trying some things out, so will flicker in and out. [10:48]  sim core: Mostly looking into: 1- Hypergrid 2- Megarerion support and 3- Lowering lag by lowering the possible view distance( that seems to be unlimited compared to other metaverses ) [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ah ok Stefan, good to see you around :) [10:49] sim core: *Megaregion [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: ok well if your interested in expressing your concerns about simian [10:49] Dahlia Trimble: I wont agree to, or support, a vwrap implementation until I see the political/organizational structure of that implementation [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: join #vwrap on freenode [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats understood [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: im not supporting simian for vwrap [10:50] Dahlia Trimble: and I definately dont want any model that leaves any company with a controlling interest [10:50] Dahlia Trimble: especially LL [10:50]  Penny Lane: Dahlia: VWRAP is whatever you want it to be --- early days, just tell them what you want, you decide the future :-) [10:50]  Dave Coyle: neb: i'm using radegast, so i can't see anything.  :) [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya me either [10:50] WhiteStar Magic: +1 Dahlia [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok Dave no worries [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: glad your here none the less [10:51] Dahlia Trimble: Penny, no it's not because I dont have time to analyze and debate all the vwrap issues [10:51] Penny Lane: Dahlia: fair enough [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: really theres no reason there isnt enough room in the metaverse for both models to exist [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: to me competition is a good thing [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: having a platform that allows for the competition to occur is a good thing [10:52] Dahlia Trimble: vwrap is a central authority model [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya i cant say I fully understand vwrap yet [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im not saying we will or wont embrace it [10:52]  sim core will have to take a look at vwrap more in details :-) [10:52]  Penny Lane: Don't worry about it, anyway. Most of our time on VWRAP seems to be spent fighting LL's inertia, quite a waste of time. [10:53]  Richardus Raymaker: iopensim is not linden labs ! [10:53]  Penny Lane: Rich++ [10:53]  sim core: ++rich [10:53]  Dahlia Trimble: and Rich, I'd like to keep it that way [10:53]  Richardus Raymaker: hi sim [10:53]  sim core: Hehe [10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i think alot of us do Dahlia [10:53]  Odious Otter: morning [10:54]  Richardus Raymaker: morning.. [10:54]  Nebadon Izumi: but if we start closing doors we take that 1st step to becoming LL [10:54]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:54]  Richardus Raymaker: open works best.. [10:54]  WhiteStar Magic: time ot let go of Autie Lindens Appron and move out into teh world [10:54] Samantha Fuller: Do you have any idea if the refactor will advance the vehicle crossing sim border problem significantly [10:54] WhiteStar Magic: Auntie [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: I think for now though testing will continue and I hope that we can always embrace the best of the best in terms of the platform [10:55] control break: am I crashed? [10:55] control break: oops no [10:55]  Richardus Raymaker: no [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe dont think so [10:55]  Zac Zeurra: Nope [10:55] Zac Zeurra: Heh [10:56] control break: sorry about that :-} [10:56] Zac Zeurra: =] [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: is there any other matters need discussing [10:56] Penny Lane: Neb: LL will go where VWRAP goes. They have no option, since they're main participants of VWRAP. So if SL compatibility concerns you, don't worry --- LL will catch up. [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: no im not worried at all about that right now [10:56] Richardus Raymaker: is save iar still broken in last osgrid opensim on linux ? because it still dont work. not tried complete path btw [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: just because LL develops a standard too [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt mean they will actually implement it [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: im not gonna chase too far down that road [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: it will have to come to me [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:57] Penny Lane: They have no options, Neb. SL is *dead* through non-scalability, and they know it. [10:57] Samantha Fuller is Offline [10:57] control break: can I tell something about an detail code issue I ran running Simian, John ? [10:58] sim core: Samantha: I believe you'll have to use mega regions for a long time, to get good vehicule crossings :-J [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: well if you need to talk about development issues with Simian its best to join the #vwrap channel for now [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I wouldn't be surprised if LL are attracted to a more twitter like model where there really is just one central service [10:58] Richardus Raymaker: penny, i descripe it as follow "linden labs is diggen a hole, and the wil finaly drop in it" for now its only getting deeper and deeper [10:58] control break: ok ^^ [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: i think the plan though is for simian to have its own IRC channel [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: maybe there we'll be some kind of weekly meeting here about it eventuyally [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya it will certainly be interesting where things go [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: but OpenSim is so much more than just a social platform [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: and SL in the end is just a social platform [10:59] Jim Radford: it has one but we need one just for SGS [10:59] Odious Otter: suppose things are real informal around here [10:59] Penny Lane: Rich: true, sadly. But eventually they'll fire the current moronic management and turn their brains on again. [10:59] Richardus Raymaker: JCC, i lost you with twitter vs LL [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:00] WhiteStar Magic: @ Penny +1++ [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i think i just need a break from SL myself [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i love the platform [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: but hate the people [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: yes penny. only then its maby to late. [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: i try to step back from sl. more nebadon. but i know not easy.. [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i still go exploring around now and then [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: there is alot of cool stuff there [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: if you can find it, yes [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: but the whole social dynamic there seems somehow warped now [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hard to explain [11:01] Penny Lane: Opensim's likely to become a major visualization platform for Edu and Biz I think, because of MRMs etc. SL can't compete with that, as their scripting system doesn't allow native code. [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hope you have a backpack with osgrid flyers with you in sl nebadon :) [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: well i still think most SL people will be really bored in OSgrid [11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: penny sl is already problematic for many with priceing [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: we may get big influxes of users, but i expect most wont stay for long [11:02]  Odious Otter: Okay, what's with all the viewer crashing. I got up early for this. [11:02]  Dahlia Trimble: most SL people I know dont want to leave [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: Odious Otter might try lowering your draw distance [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: with this many people here things can get pretty nasty [11:03]  Penny Lane: Rich: Biz doesn't care much about pricing, but Hell Yeah, the rest of us do :P [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I've managed to pry my keyboard up and it looks dry-ish but IO probably shouldn't risk it [11:03]  Dahlia Trimble: they complain a lot but they dont leave [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: dahlia+ [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: man, how annoying [11:03] Odious Otter: Thanks, let's try 64meters [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya that sucks Justin [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: probably best to let it really dry out for a bit [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, I usually turn these things back on way too early [11:03] sim core: Odious: Seems it has to do with a codepage error not being in us, I wonder why there could not ba a patch saying that if the location of an av is above half a million meters it would default to 128 like ti does with the hypergrid :-) [11:03]  Ruben Haan: about edu.; i had a talk with a library in the city where i live to get them to use opensim for education. but wen i showed them opensim on osgrid. at log in there was a(funny) horror picture. and i never heard from them annymore. a bit unprofessional i think. i have a screenshot [11:03]  sim core: *It [11:03]  Richardus Raymaker: odious, what viewer ? [11:03]  Dave Coyle: odious: make sure your viewer bandwidth slider is below 1000 Kbps, too. [11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: time to go. See you around, guys [11:04]  WhiteStar Magic: Bye JCC [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin, thanks for coming [11:04]  Zac Zeurra: Cya Justin [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon :) [11:04]  Odious Otter: hippo latest [11:04]  sim core: See-you, justin! [11:04]  Penny Lane: The problem with making OSgrid attractive is that it's all "suburbs". It needs a core of "exciting" places, all hypergridded. [11:04]  control break: good bye Justin - good luck with repairing your laptop [11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey waves [11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: bye JCC, good laptop luck [11:04]  Odious Otter: it's dumped 4 times on me in the last 5 minuets [11:05]  Dahlia Trimble: well I'm off to do RL stuff... bye all, have good morning/afternoon/evening/night/whatever :) [11:05] Penny Lane: Cyu JCC [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: could be network related then Odious [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: this is a pretty heavy meeting [11:05] sim core: Bye, dahlia! [11:05] Penny Lane: Cyu Dahlia [11:05] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i saw a bunch of peopel flying around outside too [11:05] Sarah Kline: I'm lurking ^^ [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: :) [11:05]  WhiteStar Magic: 17 avies only [11:05]  WhiteStar Magic: on here [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats not too bad for this region [11:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: Quick(?) question about C# compilers for Windows before everyone disappears [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: we probably had over 20 the entire meeting im sure [11:06]  Bob Wellman: pENNY THERE ARE SOME GOOD BUILDS IN oPENSIM [11:06]  Bob Wellman: sorry caps lock [11:06]  Penny Lane: lol [11:06]  Simpy Merryman is Online [11:06]  Key Gruin is Online [11:06]  WhiteStar Magic: Poor Simpy, missed it again [11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: i hope mine is to look at good to. still working on. and yes there good builds [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:06]  Bob Wellman: juts need more of thgem [11:06]  Penny Lane: Bob: yes! Some lovely builds here. But it's not the "excitement" that's needed to hold people. [11:06]  control break: I cant hypergrid on my standalone region to get some items :/ [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: What C# compiler are people using in Windows (for those of you compiling OS under Windows)? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: VS2008 [11:07] Odious Otter: okay, that's enough of that I'm going to emerald so I can hold a conversation lol [11:07] Bob Wellman: what is really missing from SL fans pint of view is stuff like couple dances [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: you can download Visual Studio 2008 Express for free [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Microsoft has a free download for a C# compiler but it says you have to register withing 30 ays but don't say how much it costs to register. [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its free [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: just gotta fill out a form is all [11:07] Simpy Merryman: yawns :) [11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: visual studio express is not good ? [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: they email you a key usually [11:07]  WhiteStar Magic: to get updates and patches is why you register [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: it fine [11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: Microsoft giving away something for free?? wow... has the underworld frozen over? [11:08]  control break: Andrew: I'm using .NET 3.5 and I'm compiling it with MSBuild [11:08]  Penny Lane: If you're on Linux, try Imprudence too, it's rock solid here. Just make sure you turn off all media, because Neb's video is an instant crash, for some reason. It'll be fixed. [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:08]  Odious Otter: hey simpy [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: imprudence 1.2.0 with sl dll is rock stable to penny [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ya ive been laying off the video [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: at windows [11:08]  Bob Wellman: Hi Simpy [11:08] WhiteStar Magic: hey Simpy, overslept eh [11:08]  Simpy Merryman: good morning everyone :) [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: since it crashes so many folks [11:08]  sim core: Well, see-you next time all =) [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, vs is for more than just C# is it not? [11:08] UUID Speaker: AshleyAnna Pixelmaid: 2c857fc0-4e40-e9c6-a5d6-cab84edffa64 [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: no its .NET [11:08] control break: Andrew: the msbuild uses the cc command line compiler which is free [11:08] Simpy Merryman: noo, it 7am, did I get time wrong? [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: its VB/C++/C# [11:08] Penny Lane: Rich: you mean on Windows right? That's good to hear [11:09] control break: it's delivered as part of the .NET framework [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'm just interested in C# part. [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: i use imprudence for a long time. only video sound dont work. voice i dont know [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: you only need the C# version [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: for opensim [11:09] Bob Wellman: Is there any good animators here in Opensim... thats a real hold back on Opensim adoption [11:09] WhiteStar Magic: http://www.microsoft.com/express/Downloads/#2008-Visual-CS [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. ok, thanks. I don't need it right now but will soon to compile OS for some Windows based servers. My own machine runs Linux. [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: problem is many are still afraid for open and free [11:10] Ruben Haan: freedom is scarry :D [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Bob, what animations are holding back OS adoption? [11:10] Odious Otter: Are you kidding? Open and free is why I came here. [11:10] Sarah Kline: Christy lock but you would have to twist her arm she only produces here for SL [11:10]  Penny Lane: Rich: all media work for me, audio, video, Voice. It's so distro-dependent though, because of Linux's nightmare that is audio. Sad that. [11:10] control break: just run "compile.bat" from the distribution [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: problem is the are afraid (maby myself to) that others run away with your builds. and go sell it [11:10] Odious Otter: Host your own has a ring to it that I rather like. [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: penny i use windows. have no media audio i think [11:11] Odious Otter: no more then in SL or anywhere else you can render [11:11] Penny Lane: Oh [11:11]  Penny Lane: Don't know anything about Windows or Mac, can't help sorry :-( [11:12]  Bob Wellman: Andrew: what happens is people come to opensim nad cant animate thier avatars with friends like in couple dances so they lose interest [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ya media in general is poorly implemented in these LL based viewers [11:12]  control break is getting freebies thanks to the Hippo Super Camera :D Yeah [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: its never been great by anymeans [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant speak much for the new 2.0 viewer media stuff [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: sounds cool, but ive not tested it [11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: animation are a problem here penny. the couples are misisng for some [11:12]  Bob Wellman: we can make nice builds to hold thier interest but as soon as they wish to party they go back to SL [11:12]  Baewyn Celara: Wow busy here today [11:13]  Odious Otter: all the dances are just the default poser animation example files anyway for the most part [11:13] Dale Glass: hi :-) [11:13]  Penny Lane: Neb: I tested it in Snowglobe-2.0, worked fine on Linux [11:13]  Ruben Haan: there are nice partys on osgrid [11:13]  Penny Lane: Hiya Dale! [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: cool Penny [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: you tested in OSgrid? [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: or on SL? [11:13]  Bob Wellman: one good couple slow dance would works wonders for avatar retention IMHO [11:13]  Odious Otter: holy shit, I'm not the only critter on the grid! [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:13]  control break: :D [11:14]  Richardus Raymaker: but how to get more animations ? [11:14]  Simpy Merryman: hehe I told you OD you weren't alone [11:14]  Ruben Haan: make them [11:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: control, thanks re: the MSBuild things you mentioned. [11:14]  Bob Wellman: yes thats the question Rich [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: heh good question, we really do need more pose/animation makers [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: do you know how hard it is [11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i could use more sit poses myself [11:15] Odious Otter: it's just nice to know, I was feeling a tad out of place lol [11:15] control break: you're welcome ^^ [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: sit poses are easy to make [11:15] Bob Wellman: most of us can build and script [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: nah more easy ^^ [11:15] Bob Wellman: its animations that are problematic for us [11:15]  WhiteStar Magic: (3:14:04 PM) jhurliman: but a few quick clarifications.. hypergrid and vwrap are both works in progress, neither claim to be done or have the complete solution right now. neither of them have close to complete implementations either. so when i talk about security of vwrap vs. hypergrid, i can only speak about the current protocol proposals and the security roadmaps for each (3:14:21 PM) jhurliman: DannyBisby, the working group was started by lindens, but they're a minority in the process now [11:15] Simpy Merryman: I would love to get some nice slow dances :) [11:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: Bob, ok. I ran across a place with lots of animations that I think are free to be used. I just have to find them again. I have the site bookmarked somewhere [11:15]  control break: What I especially love in OpenSim is we can choose our last name free [11:16]  Odious Otter: yeah, I suppose animations are probably coming down the pipe [11:16]  Ruben Haan: i make animations but they are a bit weard since i also in rl dont know how to move my body normaly [11:16]  Bob Wellman: if some one could crack the couple dance issue it would be a great leap forward... socially in Opensim [11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: heh well thats actually probably not a hard issue to resolve [11:16]  Richardus Raymaker: i have plenty in my inventory if correct on samsara is a box. but that are pretty the default ones. we know from sl. [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: scirpting wise [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but actually making synced dance poses [11:16] Odious Otter: there some sort of gridbug that makes the usual tricks not work here? [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats something entirely else [11:16] Sarah Kline: I will try and make a slow huggy dance then [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably wouldnt be to hard to do some really basic stuff [11:17] Bob Wellman: can you imagine if we could get a slow dance in opensim libarry inventory [11:17] Penny Lane: Lindens are a minority in VWRAP, yes. And because the rest of us are a majority, we've forced them into lots of things they didn't want. The IETF is not their private play pen. [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: most of the good synced dances though [11:17] control break: I'm off now ^^ have a nice day/morning/evening/good night ^^ ! [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I wonder what there is out there for Blender [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: are probably done in studios with Mo-Cap suit [11:17] Bob Wellman: what that would do for Opensim take up [11:17]  Sarah Kline: adielle gave us a sync script so thats a good start [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, you can tell that in part due to the animations jump when it loops back to the start. [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: bye control. [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if i can ever manage to Nail down Adam Frisby for more than 5 seconds [11:18] Penny Lane: Thanks for that paste from Hurli, WhiteStar [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: i'll ask him about getting some old poses maybe from Sinewave [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: since he is a part of that company [11:18] Sarah Kline: yay [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon. then dances are more esy with thats hardware [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I figured a sync script shouldn't be too difficulat [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya the script is pretty easy [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: compared to making the animations [11:19] John Hurliman is Online [11:19] Odious Otter: if people don't like it here because there's not much here yet what are they going to think when they get here later and get a full library full of really awesome free stuff? [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. Just getting a decent walk animation can be hard. :-) [11:19] Bob Wellman: its the animator talent thats the missing part of the puzzzle [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: well honestly [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: most of the good animations are mo-caps [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: not hand animated [11:19]  Penny Lane: Hi Armin! Didn't see you earlier :-) [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. Hard to do really good animations by hand. [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya poses [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: they are much easier [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: btw talking about inventory, why can i not drag a texture from library to edit texture field. happens with normal inventory (no transfer) textures to [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but really fluid animations [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: not so easy [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: hey there John [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: yup. I did a simple pose using Blender. [11:20] WhiteStar Magic: Welcome John [11:20] John Hurliman: ty [11:20]  Sarah Kline: there is a cheap system using webcams but its about 600$ to buy lol [11:20] Odious Otter: hello John [11:20] Ruben Haan: a lot of tv studioos have that stuf. so we should try to get some work at a tv studio and use the worktime for animations [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: 600 isn'g bad. [11:20] WhiteStar Magic: folks, try Animeeple for animations and it can import teh MOCAPS [11:20] Odious Otter: surprised we don't have an open source linux motion capture software yet [11:20] Sarah Kline: IPA studio [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: Sinewave has a studio in the UK i think [11:21] Penny Lane: Hiya Hurli! [11:21] WhiteStar Magic: It's freee and not hard to learn [11:21] John Hurliman: hello [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: 600 if that works good. still not bad price i think [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: they can do multiple avatar captures [11:21] Odious Otter: we have open source multitouch interpolation and multi pointer x you think it's not too much an extension from that [11:21] Bob Wellman: maybe we could kidnap and SL animator and hold him/her hostage until they cough up a slow danceanimation..LOL [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: There isn't one? One can usually find most things for linux. I'll have to look. [11:21] WhiteStar Magic: just very time consuming to adapt anms [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: you should be able to run Qavimator in Wine no? [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: i never tried, but i think you can [11:22] Baewyn Celara: yes its possible I have it running right now [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: Qavimator is sofar i know native for linux [11:22] Ruben Haan: qavimator works good on linux [11:22] Ruben Haan: no wine needed [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ah cool ya i always used it in windows [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: never tried in linux [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: been a loong time too [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: QAvimator is linux native [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya im probably thinking of something else then [11:23] Sarah Kline: IPI studio* sorry [11:23] Ruben Haan: it should be distributed better [11:23] Simpy Merryman: Hey Troll :) [11:23]  Ruben Haan: thats a bit of a mess now [11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: hello totiko [11:24]  Simpy Merryman: Heu everyone, meet Troll Hobble, one of the people on my regions :) very nice person and amazing scriptor [11:24] Totiko Nakajima: Hi ! [11:24] Troll Hobble: pffft [11:24] Odious Otter: hello [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: hello troll [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I better get going. Need to finish off some website coding, and have to drop some envelopes in the mail. [11:24] Troll Hobble: g'day all [11:24] John Hurliman: howdy [11:24] Odious Otter: lol, I can't believe that region is still in cache [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: by andrew [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye everyone.