Chat log from the meeting on 2021-08-31

 [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Wow. I was the first one here today? How did that happen? [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie. [11:03] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: it almost slipped my mind [11:04] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:04] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi [11:04] Ubit Umarov: last week issues with this region where possible temporary network issues [11:05] Ubit Umarov: later when Bill returned from rl and checked, region was here fine [11:05] Ubit Umarov: speaking of the devil. he arrived [11:05] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:06] Ubit Umarov: hi bill [11:06] Bill Blight: LOL [11:06] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: for a minute today i thought it was down [11:06] Bill Blight: HOwdy [11:06] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Bill [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit. Hello Bill. [11:07] Bill Blight waves [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I wonder who is over at Hurliman. [11:08] Ubit Umarov: guess bill's new pet did eat the net cable :) [11:08] Bill Blight: LOL [11:08] Bill Blight: no but he did eat my glasses [11:08] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:08] Ubit Umarov: he likes to see you without them [11:09] Bill Blight: New ones ordered, but had to be out of pocket, because already used my insurance this year .... Uggg.. 4 more weeks till they ge here [11:09] Ubit Umarov: and blind so you can't see what he his doing.. [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, what new pet? [11:09] Bill Blight: We rescued a Puppy from the shelter [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Nice. [11:09] Bill Blight: Husky/Blue Heeler mix [11:09] Ubit Umarov: not a cat :( [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Next time. :) [11:10] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: he's gonna be a big boy :-) [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Could someone pop over to Hurliman Plaza and find outif the person there is looking for this meeting? [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi all [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Gavin. [11:10] Ubit Umarov: well ages ago my ex brother in law had a husky.. he did eat all things in flat [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was there, I could not get here initially [11:11] Bill Blight: No dots showing on the map [11:11] Ubit Umarov: err the dog did not my exbrother in law :) [11:11] Bill Blight: at Hurliman [11:11] Ubit Umarov: oh? [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. That may have been Gavin. No dot there now. [11:11] Ubit Umarov: this region was fine [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: failed to tp here [11:11] Ubit Umarov: in fact ww where telling it was also fine last week [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no worries [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, yes. I was the first one here. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: possilble a net issue [11:12] Ubit Umarov: Bill's new pet the major suspect [11:13] Bill Blight: LOL [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... yea. Pulled on the network cables or chewed throught them. ;) [11:13] Bill Blight: he can't get to the servers/router/ONT [11:13] Bill Blight: but I did notice in my router that my net bounced a few times last Tuesday [11:14] Ubit Umarov: well just relevant to say it was not code issue etc [11:14] Bill Blight: LOl, no was a net issue for sure [11:14] Ubit Umarov: ( as far we can tell ) [11:15] Ubit Umarov: don't worry next time it will be a code issue :) [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: A fellow student had a pet rabbit, and one day when he got home it had removed the insulation on both leads of a live 220V cable in the length of about 2 meters without being zapped. [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know if anyone else will show up today. Time to get started. [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Only one code change of note was made this past week related to SQLite. [11:16] Ubit Umarov: about code, another week with almost no changes [11:17] Ubit Umarov: yes sqlite new estate id [11:17] Ubit Umarov: the other dbs do start it at 101 [11:17] Ubit Umarov: sqlite was starting at 1 [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: New viewer version published at https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/, otherwise nothing to report [11:18] Bill Blight: Well, I have to go, I just got pulled into puppy duty .. Have a great week peeps [11:18] Ubit Umarov: and IDs have special hardcode effects [11:18] Ubit Umarov: on viewers, fs at least, ids 15 or so mean linden estates [11:19] Ubit Umarov: ohh pet found bills pc cable ? [11:19] Ubit Umarov: ahh no he hed to go rl :) [11:19] Ubit Umarov: well so fs does not allow to add any bans to such estates [11:20] Ubit Umarov: so ppl using sqlite could not add bans to their regions [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks for the info, Gavin. [11:20] Ubit Umarov: yeah ty gavin.Hird [11:21] Ubit Umarov: well i also did not like the automatic increment on estateID done by sqlite [11:21] Ubit Umarov: so changed how we do autoincrement when adding a new estate [11:22] Ubit Umarov: possible the other dbs shloud change also [11:22] Ubit Umarov: bu ton sqlite when a integer is set as key, then it is actually the rowID [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: How else can you do autoincrement other than by autoincrement? [11:22] Ubit Umarov: and not a simple free column [11:23] Ubit Umarov: since the db is small, at least on sqlite i just call SQL max on estateID [11:23] Ubit Umarov: that does actually returns max vlaue in use [11:24] Ubit Umarov: unlink rowID that has other rules on sqlite [11:24] Ubit Umarov: unlike.. [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:24] Ubit Umarov: alos the use of autoinc forces sqlite to create and keep a list of used rowIDs [11:25] Ubit Umarov: at least in cases.. [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. [11:26] Ubit Umarov: possible SQL max is not that worse than get ( and keeping autoincrement) on the other dbs also [11:26] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:26] Ubit Umarov: but not changing those now [11:26] Ubit Umarov: i do not like estates code anyways [11:26] Ubit Umarov: wc Selby.Evans [11:27] Ubit Umarov: well that was this last week bugs fix :) [11:27] Ubit Umarov: on new regions with sqlite you cna add bans again qith fs [11:27] Ubit Umarov: no idea id dayturn has that limitation [11:27] Ubit Umarov: no idea if dayturn has that limitation [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: You can't add a ban when estate ID is less than 101? [11:28] Ubit Umarov: not even gods can add bands [11:28] Ubit Umarov: less than 5 or so [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. [11:28] Ubit Umarov: 100 is a opensim legacy min value [11:28] Ubit Umarov: no idea when introduced [11:29] Ubit Umarov: but does avoid at least this issue [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:29] Ubit Umarov: no idea had other special things linden estates have [11:29] Ubit Umarov: had? what! [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It probalby has [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is pretty old and fundamental code [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure if it estate related but they can set land to be auctioned off. [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think that is a flag on the parcel [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have removed all UI for auctions [11:33] Ubit Umarov: there is also region type mainland [11:33] Ubit Umarov: that we have wrong now.. details [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I looked in to it ages ago and there is a special avatar UUID related to it. [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus most of the associated code [11:34] Ubit Umarov: ohh our library does not work well also bc of that [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Isn't that the UUID of Governor Linden? [11:35] Ubit Umarov: viwers only accept a few linden IDs in proper inventory items [11:35] Ubit Umarov: i mean inventory library [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, yeah. I think that was it. [11:35] Ubit Umarov: we can't use library API because of that [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they don't want anyone to be able to impersonate Linden accounts [11:36] Ubit Umarov: well uuids hardcoded on viewers aren't that a big security [11:36] Ubit Umarov: ( does help ) [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Land auctions was a feature that was seldom if ever used so I doubt anyone will take much notice if it isn't an option in a viewer. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: then needs a lot of web suport [11:37] Ubit Umarov: so, why not make it fully web side? [11:38] Ubit Umarov: ok breaks immersion [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Dependson how you do it. [11:38] Ubit Umarov: but buy land is not that important part of rpg etc [11:38] Ubit Umarov: action even [11:38] Ubit Umarov: auction aisl [11:38] Ubit Umarov: grrr [11:39] Ubit Umarov: can't use cats as excuse for bad typing.. they are downstairs [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:40] Ubit Umarov: did a try to convert opensim to .net5 [11:40] Ubit Umarov: big smoke :P [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: If someone really wanted to do an auction the best way is get everyone together at the parcel to be auctioned off and have them toss their bids out in open chat. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: ofc xengine appdomains not there [11:40] Ubit Umarov: but lost of "this and that" [11:41] Ubit Umarov: lots [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: I've only built one program that uses .net5. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: ms is just doing a mess with this [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was under the impression -Net5 was just a stepping stone to .Net6 [11:41] Ubit Umarov: but they will kill mono [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes Ubit [11:42] Ubit Umarov: so it is a timebomb for us.. [11:42] Ubit Umarov: ticking.. [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that and Windows 11 [11:42] Ubit Umarov: wlel win11 it a timebomb ofr mw [11:42] Ubit Umarov: i refuse that crap [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which will be available from Oct 5 on new machines and as upgrades [11:42] Ubit Umarov: encripted hard disks?? [11:42] Ubit Umarov: bahh [11:43] Ubit Umarov: i do no thave the tpm chip eihter [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: naw [11:43] Ubit Umarov: ( i would desolder it from mb if it was there ) [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't either and have no plans to buy a new machine any time soon. I don't use Windows that much so I don't care much about Win11. [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, you'll void your warranty. ;) [11:44] Ubit Umarov: who wantes encripted hard disks, to all contents is in ms hands? [11:44] Ubit Umarov: and more mac looking UI ?? [11:44] Ubit Umarov: jezz [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you could desolder it and sell it. Prices have increased 10-folds [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't heard anything about encrypted HD's with Win11. [11:45] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they should call it microsoftOS X [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: We are 15 minutes before the top of the hour. Any other OpenSim topics for today? [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Any previews of upcoming features or changes in the OS code or in a viewer? [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, I installed a vm with Debian Bullseye (11) [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it cam with mono 6.0.8 as default [11:48] Ubit Umarov: they call it BitLocker andrew [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the compiler crashed on compiling opensim [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I did not find any higher mono version that would run [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, BitLocker. I've heard of that. MS owns that now or was that always an MS thing? [11:50] Ubit Umarov: yeha total had same issue with debian 11 default mono [11:50] Ubit Umarov: its 6.0.8 fails to compile opensim [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I will not update the server Ubit [11:50] Ubit Umarov: but you can install last stable and seems it works [11:51] Ubit Umarov: ty :) [11:51] Ubit Umarov: you could install .dotnet instead [11:51] Ubit Umarov: but i cant' convert opensim to it [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could I [11:51] Ubit Umarov: i did convert most libomv [11:52] Ubit Umarov: issues with sculpt maps and use of bitmaps [11:52] Ubit Umarov: that may not work on linux [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: issues sounds like don't upgrade [11:52] Ubit Umarov: bc ms did not add bitmaps or image code for linux [11:53] Ubit Umarov: ( that means no dynamic textures etc ...) [11:53] Ubit Umarov: such a mess this .net thing [11:53] Ubit Umarov: .net5 is a unification [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: both etc and ... ? - does not sound good [11:53] Ubit Umarov: but now there is also .net5-windows [11:53] Ubit Umarov: bagg [11:54] Ubit Umarov: bahh [11:54] Ubit Umarov: we should stay on .netframork, just going up to 4.8 [11:54] Ubit Umarov: just.. mono will be killed [11:55] Ubit Umarov: they do not say that.. but on all small letters [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mono will be killed forcing everyone to buy new machines that can only run Win11? [11:55] Ubit Umarov: they took all code they needed from it into their own .dotnet sdk [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well they will force all to use win11 [11:55] Ubit Umarov: but thats other mechanics [11:56] Ubit Umarov: ms learning from apple [11:56] Ubit Umarov: goo tey are bad students [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apple only change processor every so often [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that clears the deck [11:57] Ubit Umarov: yeah.. as long you keep paying for new hardware and licenses you are ok :P [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: licenses is a thing of the past. Monthly subscriptions it is [11:58] Ubit Umarov: ( in that case paying is more being robbed.. details ( [11:58] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:59] Ubit Umarov: so so hate the evolution this [11:59] Ubit Umarov: on this [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: me too [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux, FTW. ;) [11:59] Ubit Umarov: but well a lot of afghans have more reasons to hate things today [12:00] Ubit Umarov: so play with .net5 was not that nice [12:00] Ubit Umarov: in opensim context, that is [12:01] Ubit Umarov: err does .net5 even run on macs? :) [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not yet, but it will according to MS [12:01] Ubit Umarov: so does not :P [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I uninstalled Visual Studio some time ago, so I have not chcked what it comes ith right now [12:02] Ubit Umarov: well mono aq by ms was a nice thing [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it started drifting into non mono versions [12:03] Ubit Umarov: they did fix mono a lot so they could use its code on their things [12:03] Ubit Umarov: but... seems major devel on it stopped [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/preview/ [12:03] Ubit Umarov: now they have the code they wanted on dotnet [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/preview/ [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The .NET team is focused on a modern app development experience, improving .NET 5 support and adding .NET 6 support. We are also focusing on productivity with built-in code assistance. [12:04] Ubit Umarov: yeha vs2022 [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Visual Studio 2019 for Mac is the current release [12:05] Ubit Umarov: same on win [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: .NET Core 2.2 - does that make sense? [12:06] Ubit Umarov: dead [12:06] Ubit Umarov: all net core are dead [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, .NET 5 replaces .NET Core [12:06] Ubit Umarov: net5 started as kind of a rename of core 3.1 [12:06] Ubit Umarov: even .net standard [12:07] Ubit Umarov: thye start telling it is not useful [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: We have updated the .NET Core SDK to 5.0.400 and 3.1.412 addressing [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in rlease notes for Visual Studio 2019 for Mac version 8.10.7 [12:07] Ubit Umarov: yeha think those are current thinks [12:07] Ubit Umarov: things [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and of course version 8.10.7 is Visuals Studio 2019 [12:09] Ubit Umarov: .net core was a useless nonsense [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Any final comments/questions/thoughts re: OpenSim before we call this meeting to a close? [12:09] Ubit Umarov: their devs wanted all apps to be recompiled [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: opensim misbehaves pretty good for the time being, so no big complaints or issues here [12:09] Ubit Umarov: at 3.1 guess management force them to add a lot more .net framework things [12:10] Ubit Umarov: but still just a limited set [12:10] Ubit Umarov: but to increase number of apps that do almost compile [12:10] Ubit Umarov: original core was almost a total new crap [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: microcrap [12:11] Ubit Umarov: guess they are still on a huge swamp they created [12:12] Ubit Umarov: well i will keep looking [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I see Jamie has left. We are quarter past the hour. Time to call this gathering to a close. [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [12:13] Ubit Umarov: not because i do like .net5, but because we may need that escape route [12:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye all