Chat log from the meeting on 2021-06-15

 [11:03] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: well now Amber Heard has messed that names rep up [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:04] Meeting Chat Logger V4: Meeting chat logging has been enabled. [11:04] Meeting Chat Logger V4: Be sure to stop and clear the log at the end of the meeting, this will create the archive @ https://outreach.blight.media/archive/ [11:04] Meeting Chat Logger V4: You can view the log at: https://outreach.blight.media/index.php [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Welcome Mike! [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Mike. [11:04] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Andrew [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: That's a name that looks familiar. Haven't seen it in quite a while. [11:05] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Andrew [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Is that Ygdrasil on your head Ada? [11:05] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: It is. Or maybe one of the Entwives. It's a mockup, using bits and pieces, of a line I'm working on [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nice [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... Yggdrasil was the first Linux distro I ever used. [11:06] Kayaker Magic: Is this one of the starter avatars Ada? [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil [11:06] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I need to take it into Blender and rig the hand and foot branches, do original texturing [11:06] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: no - though there are a couple of simpler tree people in the starter avatars [11:06] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: by CapCat Ragu and Melio Minotaur [11:07] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I got bored working on the humans and made this tree [11:07] Bill Blight: Watch out for Termites [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: :) [11:08] Kayaker Magic: Woodpeckers [11:08] Kayaker Magic: boring beetles [11:08] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: do female trees worry about woodpeckers? [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: forest fires [11:08] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Someone also suggested a bloody version and call it Lavinia [11:08] Kayaker Magic: Here in California we worry about forest fires [11:08] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: (Titus Andronicus for the non-Shakespeareans) [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, no kidding. I've seen the news about some of the fires down that way. [11:09] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I live about an hour south of Kayaker, it's terrifying, and horrible for air quality even if not in range of the fires [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: i don't know if Ubit will be joining us today. He isn't in IRC at the moment. [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think he's been on at all today [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might be his vax day [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he said he'd have to queue all day for that (when it was his turn) [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I hadn't heard about him waiting to get a shot. [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he is in some national queue, but it seems to take forever there [11:12] Kayaker Magic: I just did a git pull on OpenSim, and there were no changes since June 7th [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just about to mention that Kayaker. :) [11:13] Bill Blight: Little over a week with no updates, that might be some sort of a record for the past few years ... LOL [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I know he has been experimenting with freeswitch [11:13] Kayaker Magic: I see he removed the threat checks from osGetGridName on the 1st! [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but got frustrated [11:14] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: great! [11:14] Bill Blight: freeswitch is not for the faint of heart [11:14] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: so jumping and screaming DOES produce results [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tried to install freeswitch on a Raspberry PI, but not a single lib was compiled for 64-bit ARM [11:14] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ubit! Hi Ubit [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which faslsl right into the situation for macOS too [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Indeed not. I gave up several times trying to get it working. I did get it to work eventually but don't remember how. IIRC, there is a page in the wiki about setting it up that might have helped the last time I tried to use it. [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit. [11:15] Bill Blight: Howdy Ubit [11:15] Kayaker Magic: I thought the Pi Linux was only 32 bit so far. [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as Apple is phasing out Intel, nothing will run on that platform in the future unless it is 64-bit ARM [11:15] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there has been a 64-bit beta for a long time Kayaker [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it actually is quite a bit faster, but it lacks some sw [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, There should be 64-bit distros available for the RPi. [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ubit [11:16] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Ubit [11:16] Ubit Umarov: no idea what my cats did.. or what happened [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are other 64-bit distros too [11:16] Kayaker Magic: Can you run OpenSim on a Pi in 64 bit Linux? [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no [11:16] Kayaker Magic: Well dang. [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, were they playing with the cords behind your computer and unplugged it? [11:16] Ubit Umarov: but my boths disks have like extra 250GB use [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mono does not compile properly [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I have not botherred compiling th libs for 64-bit yet [11:17] Kayaker Magic: I'll just keep holding my breath. [11:17] Ubit Umarov: and no idea where.. [11:17] Ubit Umarov: grrr [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think Microsoft has said that there will only be -net6 for ARM-64 and no mono as we know it [11:17] Ubit Umarov: also had lie 20 crashed firestorms open [11:18] Kayaker Magic: So something called net6 will run on ARM processors in Linux? [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:19] Kayaker Magic: So Ubit, why so few changes to OpenSim this last week. Are all the bugs fixed now? [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is summer [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he nees some time off ;-)) [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, summer time with no where to go and nothing to do. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sit in the shade and drink wine [11:22] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: tapas and beer [11:22] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: lotta options [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly :-) [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: To bring things back to OpenSim, does anyone have any questions or comments for today? [11:24] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: no, everyone talking about viewer issues lately [11:24] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: yeah [11:24] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: perfect meshes with no errors not uploading [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what are those viewer issues? [11:24] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: vivox mostly [11:24] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: but what Mike said too [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: We were talking about Vivox last week. [11:25] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: and the ever popular slambit errors [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, but that is not a real issue except for Linux users quite yet [11:25] Kayaker Magic: I noticed that some of the vector vehicle parameters will let you set them with a float. Checked the source and it is converting to a vector for you. I don't see this anywhere in the documentation. (Unless you count the source as the documentation). [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: The source is always the documentation. ;) [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: something must have changed for meshes not to upload any more [11:26] Ubit Umarov: well on some what more urgent matters [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: More urgent than meshes not uploading? [11:26] Ubit Umarov: as you know there had been issues with freenode irc network, still a major place where we did meet [11:27] Ubit Umarov: yes more important than user mistakes [11:27] Kayaker Magic: In SL, if you call llSetVehicleFloatParam with an index that is supposed to be used by llSetVehicleVectorParam, you get a run-time error. OpenSim just ignores you and does nothing. [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I read something about that on ARS [11:27] Ubit Umarov: so [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: I hadn't heard anything about Freenode problems until today. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: at first stage, most freenode team just left and created a new one [11:28] Ubit Umarov: because it seems someone had sold the network [11:28] Ubit Umarov: and owner started pulling rights [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ [11:28] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a scripting question for devs: Would it be possible to create an osSetLinkPrimitiveParams set of functions where you can have a list of several links to modify simultaneously? [11:28] Ubit Umarov: many teams did move to that other network. [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Mike, hold off on your question for the moment. [11:29] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: ok [11:29] Ubit Umarov: for us, no particular need, that was basicly strangers fighting strangers.. [11:30] Ubit Umarov: but yesterday the "freenode" owner decided to do a "great" thing.. ie start all over from zero [11:30] Ubit Umarov: and restarts freenode with other software and clean dbs [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like going back to teletypes? [11:31] Ubit Umarov: that just means every one lost the nicks and channels [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: jeez [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why? [11:31] Ubit Umarov: we have no control of "our" channels there now [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? I am still connected to all the IRC channels I've been connected to for some years now. [11:32] Ubit Umarov: well you may know i was a irc person.. had role on a major network [11:32] Ubit Umarov: that this is the most stupid thing i ever seen in irc world [11:32] Ubit Umarov: guess everywhere [11:33] Ubit Umarov: total disrespect for users doint that intencionaly [11:33] Bill Blight: so long story short, we landed at ... https://libera.chat/ [11:34] Ubit Umarov: well i still didn't talk to my colleges [11:34] Ubit Umarov: but yes most likely we will be moving to libera.chat [11:34] Bill Blight: maybe should say anybody that was paying attention already moved there ... LOL [11:34] Ubit Umarov: that is that other network created by former team [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen someone spamming several IRC channels about that site and claiming channels had moved there. So far I have yet to see any IRC channel with a mailing list mention a change in IRC host. [11:35] Ubit Umarov: when this started, tampa, that you may know, had the idea of register our channels there [11:35] Ubit Umarov: and yesterday did pass them to me [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen similar spamming of IRC channels in the past mentioning some other site. I always took it to be a sign of someone trying to get people to go to some site with malware, or a scam, or possibly part of some phishing attempt. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: now still need to migrate our bots there etc [11:37] Ubit Umarov: some maybe fun... lets see [11:38] Bill Blight: lol .. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: well that is the major unexpected event [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are disruptions always [11:41] Bill Blight: Yeah ... So unless you have new found trust in the crown prince of Korea, might want to move to Libera [11:41] Ubit Umarov: well i would not care [11:41] Ubit Umarov: but delete all the dbs are start a new freenode?? absurd [11:42] Bill Blight: yeah [11:42] Ubit Umarov: that is not having a idea how irc is even [11:42] Bill Blight: Seems like a good time to move since everything has to be remade [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pretty destructive [11:42] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:42] Ubit Umarov: with that move we just can't trust them [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: How does someone go about selling Freenode without it being planned or announced in advance? [11:43] Ubit Umarov: that was a hidden thing [11:43] Ubit Umarov: the created a foundation for good reasons [11:43] Bill Blight: well when you have one admin that holds the keys to the kingdom, it would be really easy .. [11:43] Ubit Umarov: like justin once tryed for opensim [11:43] Ubit Umarov: ir to make easy to get donations, etc [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did he try to sell it? [11:44] Ubit Umarov: but then the guy in control of that foundation sold it [11:44] Ubit Umarov: effective selling the entire network [11:44] Ubit Umarov: but things kikca kept rolling for a few years eveb [11:44] Ubit Umarov: the sell was in 2017 i think [11:45] Bill Blight: Need to bail out a bit early ... Laters peeps [11:45] Ubit Umarov: recently the owner started pulling rights.. [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, bill. tc [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cheers Bill [11:45] Ubit Umarov: so the entire team left and created libera [11:45] Ubit Umarov: well you can read it all over [11:45] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode [11:45] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: ya [11:46] Ubit Umarov: about vivox.. [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: You feel the people behind libera.chat can be trusted? [11:46] Ubit Umarov: i asked Lisa from IMA abotu the state of their EchoVoice, a update on the old mumble they are wokring on for a frew years [11:47] Ubit Umarov: just learned that work is going on.. and they will give news when done, and who will be able to use it or not [11:47] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: that's not encouraging [11:47] Ubit Umarov: so.. for now.. nothing [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Lisa L • 2 days ago IMA's EchoVoice solution (self hosted non-commercial replacement for Vivox) is in active development. Anyone interested in the open source project can contact me via email or attend our weekly IMA Hypergrid Community Meeting on Wednesday nights at grid.metaversedepot.com:8002:IMA Outpost Alpha [11:48] Ubit Umarov: yeah, as i said.. their own thing [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right [11:48] Ubit Umarov: officially pretty much on same state it was 2 or 3 years ago [11:49] Ubit Umarov: when identical statements where made [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes. It has been in development for over a year. I remember it being mentioned at the OSCC two OSCC events ago, IIRC. [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 3 commits - incrementing the copyright year number [11:49] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:49] Ubit Umarov: like 3 years ago i was told they would donate thales work on mumble/murmur to opensim [11:50] Ubit Umarov: they they decided to change and go on one thing [11:50] Ubit Umarov: well its ok [11:50] Ubit Umarov: jsut for now, it is nothing.. [11:51] Ubit Umarov: i played with freeswitch [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there has been some discussion on the SL open dev list [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://groups.google.com/a/lists.secondlife.com/g/opensource-dev/c/0UOKCqMG-7M/m/UHk0hMqLAwAJ [11:51] Ubit Umarov: managed to install it on win and talk to myself [11:51] Ubit Umarov: well it is not good really [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tried to install on a PI, but none of the libs were compiled for 64-bit ARM [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so have to reinstall the machine to 32-bit to even look at it [11:52] Ubit Umarov: itkinda works... it is possible to talk and even ear :) [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: was that the 3.5 kHz quality we talked about Ubit? [11:52] Ubit Umarov: but only works with the older viewer side code version [11:52] Kayaker Magic: Ubit is talking to himself? As long as he doesn't argue with himself we are good. [11:52] Ubit Umarov: ie version 4.6 [11:53] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: you arent even letting your cats in the convo? [11:53] Ubit Umarov: also the last one for linux clients [11:53] Ubit Umarov: current 4.10.. does not work.. [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but as I said the 4.6 version juse an old version of boost that completely refuse to compile on anything higher than visual studio 2013, so no [11:53] Ubit Umarov: well we don't need to compile it.. just use the bins :p [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you need to compile the viewer [11:54] Ubit Umarov: no you do not [11:54] Ubit Umarov: slvoice is a independent process [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I told you it is not only the SLVoice.exe [11:54] Ubit Umarov: that talk via local tcp [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are mutliple parts of the viewer that links with other vivox libs + use the headers from the SDK to compile [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you are wrong [11:55] Ubit Umarov: i just did replace 4.10 slvoice.exe files by 4.6 ones and all wroked fine [11:55] Ubit Umarov: viewer does not know anything about its internals [11:56] Ubit Umarov: at least last firestorm [11:56] Ubit Umarov: in fact one version of fs did ship with 2 sets of slvoice files [11:56] Ubit Umarov: and changed on the fly for opensim [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they implicitly do via llvoicevivox and llvoiceclient which both must link directly with the SDK [11:57] Ubit Umarov: not going to discuss that [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good, because you don't know what you talk about [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have been through all the changes from 4.6 to 4.10 [11:58] Ubit Umarov: it works as expected from independent programs that only talk via a speciic API [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: via 4.9 and the boost.fiber upgrade [11:58] Ubit Umarov: that is basicly the same [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: This sounds like a good time for me to jump in and ask you to hold off on this topic for the moment. It is almost the top of the hour and Mike had a question. [11:58] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: I think Kayaker may have answered it, but here goes [11:59] Ubit Umarov: well i guess this topic is also done :) [11:59] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: For years I've wanted an ability to move multiple prims at the same time heirarchically [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is probably why there are many hundred commits to make the viewer, including the voice portion build with VS2017 [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is obvioulsy the same [12:00] Kayaker Magic: There is no "at the same time" in OpenSim. This is not a real time operating system. [12:00] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: all the documentation I've seen always indicated you could only move one prim with an llSPPF or llSLPPF function at a time [12:00] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: well yes, but simultaneity has always been a goal [12:01] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: esp when you have to use separate functions for each link in a linkset [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: One way I can think of to do that (sort of) is send a message that is picked up by all prims and each of those prims moves when they receive the message. [12:01] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: so I was curious about having a list in one of these functions, in an os version, that would execute prim parameters changes at the same time on multiple links in the same linkset [12:01] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: messagelinked doesnt do it [12:02] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: there seems to be a "speed of message" within a linkset relative to distance from the root [12:02] Kayaker Magic: There is also an internal buffer and when that fills, some prim moves are delayed for a frame. [12:03] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: so having a list of prims to change at the same time within the same function would IMHO result in the best performance [12:03] Kayaker Magic: That buffer size means you can never move more than around 16 prims in one frame time. More than that and you see some of your child prims lagging. Give it up Mike and learn to use Animesh. [12:04] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol [12:04] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: :) [12:04] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: 16 is plenty for my purposes [12:04] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have gotten three requests in the last two days for animating classes. The three of us will be busy teaching it [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: You want to move the prims in different directions than they would be moved by just moving the root prim? [12:05] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: one of the issues with animesh is that when you shoot an animesh robots you cant make it break up into many pieces, you wind up having to rez aq bunch of pieces while the animesh deletes or goes transparent [12:05] Kayaker Magic: Like the legs of a horse galloping. [12:05] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: right andrew [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Mike, that is a good example use case. [12:06] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: ok so just rezzed a droid at kayakers end of the bar [12:07] Kayaker Magic: If they are linked you have to break them apart, that requires permission. [12:07] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes Kayaker [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: make a multi part animesh, unlink it and let gravity work [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure if that is viable [12:07] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: another problem with animesh is that it doesnt do wheels [12:08] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I wondered about animating things to spin with animesh.... [12:08] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: It could.. [12:08] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: so with this droid, the arms have upper arm, lower arm and two sets of three fingers each on the hand [12:08] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: maybe the face Bento bones [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that would be one option but would not give the right effect if you are trying to simulate falling apart due to an explosion or being hit by a moving object. [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I get that Andrew [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless you had a script in each part giving inertia, but I suppose that would not scale well [12:10] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: mFaceJaw might work for a wheel [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: can you make attachment to animeshes? [12:10] Ubit Umarov: (oops got lost in rl :) [12:11] Ubit Umarov: no gavin objects have no attachments [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, True. [12:11] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: so the wheel would have a bone where its pivot point is at the axis and its movement is limited to a single plane? [12:11] Kayaker Magic: Animeshes cannot have attachments, but they can be made as linked sets of prims. All the prims are animated at once, if they have the right bones.... [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Taking inertia in to account you might be able to make use of the delay in getting prims to move by moving the ones with less inertia first. [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but you can link to an an imesh? [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: animesh? [12:12] Kayaker Magic: The wheel would have to be an isolated island of quadrangles, the animation might try to "return to zero" [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a change SL-10561 Children in Animesh linksets can not be selected in some cases [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which sounds like stuff can be linked to the Animesh [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and if that is the case a wheel carrier could be linked to it [12:14] Kayaker Magic: I was dissapointed to learn Animesh is not a separate property of each child prim, it is a property of the whole linkset. [12:15] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: it seems like insisting on animesh is like an unnecessary overcomplication [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the complication is the rigging of course [12:16] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: absolutely [12:16] Kayaker Magic: Animating each child prim in your build is a big load on the server, animesh is distributed to the viewers. [12:17] Kayaker Magic: Also the code to animate all your child prims is complicated to write, animesh does the calculations for you. [12:17] Kayaker Magic: (once you learn to make animesh and animations) [12:17] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes but you then have to create your own custom animations also [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, just a small detail. :) [12:17] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: another unnecessary overcomplication [12:18] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: it seems as silly as saying every machine in the world has to be a living being [12:18] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes, got to learn more Blender skills. You can do it. [12:18] Ubit Umarov: ll only did add the avatar skeleton to a linkset [12:18] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: that wastes 100x more time than scripting it [12:18] Ubit Umarov whispers: well "only" it was alot of work :) [12:18] Kayaker Magic: No, animesh is like saying "stop writing everything in assembly for each processor and learn a higher level language" [12:19] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: It's not as much work as you think. Blender tools have improved. Kayaker has figured out some workarounds as he doesn't like to waste time either [12:20] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: if I could weight paint by just applying a greyscale image to each vertex group that would be one thing, but the current methods are onerous [12:20] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: such as building and animating a custom rig, THEN naming it to our horrible and screwy OS/SL armature system [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Blender has come a long way but it still isn't an easy program to learn. If I don't use it for a while I tend to forget some basic aspects of it. [12:20] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: using mostly automatic weighting [12:20] Kayaker Magic: To your original question: 1) you can move many child prims in one call with PRIM_LINK_TARGET, [12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did not MOSES have some demos of that? [12:21] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: @Andrew - true, got to use it nearly every day and keep up with the upgrades. Not for everyone. [12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I seem to remember a wall being blown up [12:21] Kayaker Magic: And 2) doing it in several llSetLinkPPF calls is often just as fast because all the prim move messages get buffered and sent at once. [12:21] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: but Mike is already good in Blender. It's doable [12:22] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: thats the main solution I'm looking for for now. Yes I'm good enough and have done rigging work that I find it tedious, boring and inefficient [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I don't remember who did it but I have seen demos of something crashing in to a wall made of blocks and how the blocks reacted. I think in that case it was more a case of showing off physics. [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think I have the scripts in my lib [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but not in my suitcase [12:23] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: iain McCracken has them too - he blew up some stuff for the theater troupe [12:23] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: years ago in SL Nexii Malthus was developing an LSL library for scripted heirarchical movement but some smartass went in years later and "improved" it which made it nonfunctional [12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Exploding wall and grenade is a folder I have [12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let me go back and copy to suitcase and return [12:24] Ubit Umarov: well about objects hierachy. yeah.. a origial ll sin hard to fix now [12:25] Kayaker Magic: And 3) Even if you move your child prims in one llSetLinkPF call, depending on how many you move the system may break it into several messages and things will not "happen at the same time" [12:25] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: well yes, but at this point given we have a separate viewer from SL I dont see any need to not fix that original sin [12:25] Ubit Umarov: nohing happens at same time... [12:26] Ubit Umarov: script engine does changes to prims ( in sequence ) [12:26] Ubit Umarov: they will reach users.. "one day" [12:26] Ubit Umarov: each user on own timings [12:27] Ubit Umarov: depending on the state of theirs udp queues.. distances to prims, etc [12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is the content of that folder [12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: see if you can copy it [12:28] Kayaker Magic: That is probably a physics toy Gavin, not a linked object. [12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you exploded my item hehe [12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Couldn't take a copy of it. I thought it might have given its content on touch. [12:29] Kayaker Magic: I tried, it didn't react to me. [12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now then? [12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: No. Can't take a copy. [12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: click for sale [12:29] Kayaker Magic: It only exploded when it rezed bricks inside the bar. [12:30] Grid: Delivery of free object succeeded Object Name: Object [12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. I was able to buy it for $0. [12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good [12:30] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: hm I can't [12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cause you are on kitely [12:31] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes I am [12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you get it? [12:31] Ubit Umarov: oh founf 250GB of one of my disks.. [12:31] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes, thank you Gavin! [12:31] Ubit Umarov: firestorm cache [12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks, Gavin. [12:32] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks gavin [12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yw [12:32] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I could buy it [12:32] Ubit Umarov: ohh you are diferent today Ada.Radius [12:32] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks gavin [12:32] Kayaker Magic: Mike wants his robots to explode. One way would be to unlink them, change each prim to physical, give each one an impulse and let the physics engine toss them around. [12:32] Ubit Umarov: what are this explosions suposed to be? [12:33] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: haaa Ubit nothing gets past you... I am working on a new avatar series [12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a MOSES demo [12:33] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: It is now half past the hour. I need to get going soon. I need to work on some code to see if I can't make serial ports in Linux work in full duplex mode. [12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: blowing up a wall for the military [12:33] Kayaker Magic: Another way would be to keep the parts linked, do the physics in the script and move each robot part as a child prim. [12:33] Ubit Umarov: hope you did set those prims as tmp :p [12:33] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol [12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: someone return the prims to me [12:34] Ubit Umarov: well like on any game [12:34] Ubit Umarov: you need to make the thing with parts that can fly out [12:34] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: yeah turning a linkset physical then unlinking it is an easy though laggy method [12:34] Mike.Lorrey @grid.kitely.com:8002: easy to crash a region that way [12:35] Ubit Umarov: some game engines now have tools to help create those meshes from original [12:35] Ubit Umarov: not sure if any tries to do anything in real time [12:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any other last minute items for today? [12:36] Ubit Umarov: bullet once did own a prize because was used to make a building explode on a movie [12:36] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I've done something similar for theater with rezzers and temporary objects. I of course had help scripting. [12:36] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: to make the illusion [12:37] Ubit Umarov: world of tanks breakable objects are silly [12:37] Ubit Umarov: some fall on top of tanks and stay there in a very ugly way [12:38] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: if they're temporary and appear to dissolve with particle sand it can just work [12:38] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: but everyone's viewers see it at a slightly different time [12:38] Ubit Umarov: all those things should be temporary ofc [12:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I will conclude todays meeting at this point. I have to get back to some work and my cat is also seeking my attention. [12:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye all [12:39] Ubit Umarov: lets hope it is "slightly" [12:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.