Chat log from the meeting on 2008-07-15

[10:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neb [10:01] You: hey [10:01] You: strange, im ruthed [10:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello v.d (veneral disease?) [10:02] v.d Linden: hi wie gehts [10:02] You: not sure if this weeks going to be blockbuster meeting [10:02] You: hehe [10:02] You: probably not [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, apperance is borked in some way [10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: well, they can't all be blockbusters :) [10:03]  You: yea i seemed fine for days [10:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: (thankfully) [10:03]  Charles Krinkeb is Online [10:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: and here I am, logging in early just so I can get a seat [10:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: good morning charles [10:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello bluewall [10:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, so what is the wopr, nebadon? [10:05]  Charles Krinkeb: Oh, Yeah. A "WOPR" [10:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh I see [10:05]  You: hehe [10:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's a wopr [10:05]  Charles Krinkeb: Thats the new grid server isnt it, Nebadon? [10:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: cooool [10:05]  BlueWall Slade: is it a tractor for the corn field? [10:05]  You: heheh [10:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: is it running amigaOS? [10:05]  You: lol [10:06]  You: its still rough [10:06]  Charles Krinkeb: If we virtualize the servers then we dont even need electricity [10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: with a machine that big, are you sure it shouldn't have IBM plastered on the side? [10:06] BlueWall Slade: hehe [10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hey, if IBM sponsers osgrid, would you plaster their logos all over wright plaza? :) [10:06] Charles Krinkeb: Remember the movie "War Games" ?? [10:07]  Charles Krinkeb: There you go, LED's and everything. [10:07]  You: theres a little preview of the lights [10:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: nice :) [10:07] Strawberry Fride: fab! [10:07] You: let me try something else [10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hello gridcat, strawberry, danxor [10:07] Strawberry Fride: hi ppl :) [10:08]  Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: Look at the blinkenlights [10:08]  Charles Krinkeb: Are we waiting on sdague? [10:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [10:08]  Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, quite a high frame time [10:08] Axaes Xandal: hi [10:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi axaes [10:09] Dahlia Trimble does a vanity rebake [10:09] Charles Krinkeb: Hi, Axaes, Dahlia, everyone [10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: you appear to be sitting in midair, nebadon [10:09] Axaes Xandal: hello hello [10:09] BlueWall Slade: Hello [10:09] You: yea [10:09] You: i moved myself [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: man, I'm sitting in midair to [10:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: too [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey just noticed [10:10] danx2 danx0r: let's try again [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: did that patch to correct the sit position apperances work, do you think? [10:10] Strawberry Fride: a load of my sit targets suddenly stopped working overnight [10:10] Chris D is Offline [10:10] Chris D is Offline [10:10] Charles Krinkeb: Should we start with a couple of simple things as others arrive? [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: which night was that? [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: fire away [10:11] Hiro Protagonist is Online [10:11] Strawberry Fride: think I placed them on Sunday, then I checked today and they weren't working [10:11] BlueWall Slade: which engine? [10:11] Strawberry Fride: I'm pretty much up-to-date on Windows 2003 wiht SQL Server backend [10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, there was a sit patch though I think that occurred alittle earlier in the week [10:11] Chris D is Online [10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: the sit positions on sdague's standalone are up the spout too, though they've been that way for a couple of weeks [10:12] Bill Humphries: Hey folks. Tess Linden is on her way. [10:12] Charles Krinkeb: It has been suggested that we are accumulating a few less then useful mantisi and perhaps need a little group to do triage for mantis and delete trivia, moot, will not fix, config issue, that sort of thing. [10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi bill, chris, hiro [10:12] Gridcat Adamczyk: sit patch worked, but not here. revertet? fired one high in the air when standing up [10:12] Hiro Protagonist: Hi Justin :D [10:12] Chris Main: hey^^ [10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: don't know [10:12] Kurt Stringer is Online [10:13] Hiro Protagonist: Hello everybody else :D [10:13] Charles Krinkeb: Ok, now that we have assigned all the mantis to Hiro, we can go on to the next topic. [10:13] BlueWall Slade: Hi [10:13]  Gridcat Adamczyk: Oh yes, hi all too :) [10:13]  Hiro Protagonist: lols [10:13]  Charles Krinkeb:  [10:13]  Chris D is Offline [10:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: charles: It sounds like a good idea to me [10:13]  Hiro Protagonist logs into mantis and clears the decks [10:14]  Axaes Xandal: I seem to have something PN on me again [10:14]  Chris D is Online [10:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: man, Teravus must be really busy [10:14]  Charles Krinkeb: Should there be a group of 2 or 3 to decide on mantis and how should we determine the members of the group. [10:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: he never normally misses an office hour [10:14]  Hiro Protagonist: Man, whoever fixed seating really fixed it good [10:14]  danx2 danx0r: on this client, the normal chat bar is missing [10:14]  danx2 danx0r: I have to bring up the big box to talk [10:14]  You: yea scripts need to be adjusted [10:14] You: new chairs are available on Zaius Plaza [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: what did you think of the sit patch? [10:15] You: with fixed script [10:15] Charles Krinkeb: The important part is merely that the core developers merely support the decisions of the mantis triage team. [10:15] Hiro Protagonist: dude, my sit targets reset and/or change between logins [10:15] BlueWall Slade is Online [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: A coalition of the willing? [10:15] Hiro Protagonist: thats without a server restart [10:15] You: hmm i havent been sitting much [10:15] You: hehe [10:15] Hiro Protagonist: heh [10:15] You: i had to redo all my scripts though [10:15] Hiro Protagonist: what'd I miss mantis wise? [10:15] You: they seemed ok [10:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: charles: well, diplomacy is the order of the day I should think [10:15] Charles Krinkeb: Hiro? What do you need to feel comfortable going ahead with mantis triage. (nothing, Hiro. I just started). [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: okay [10:16] Hiro Protagonist: okehs [10:16] Hiro Protagonist: well [10:16] Hiro Protagonist: so far, I've been hitting the mantis pretty hard for irrelevant or ancient issues [10:16] You: that one might be fixed [10:16] Hiro Protagonist: thats all going pretty good actually [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps a good thing too would be to bring important mantis to the attention of developers [10:16] Hiro Protagonist: I think my concern as posted in the -dev list was a bit inarticulate [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: because a lot of stuff does seem to get lost in the noise [10:17] Hiro Protagonist: today, Charles and I had some really good dialogue that helped me refine my focus greatly [10:17] You: woot [10:17] Charles Krinkeb: Hiro. Would you like to be the mantis honcho for this project and does anyone object (including Hiro)? [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: altohugh... meh, maybe that's unfair - would you say the important stuff does get fixed quickly? [10:17] You: lol gridcat [10:17] Kurt Stringer: hi everyone [10:17] Hiro Protagonist: I think we have a really good track record with mantis tbh [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: you might want to ask that to all the other devs.... [10:17] Strawberry Fride: Hi Kurt [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: hi kurt [10:17] Hiro Protagonist: it's the future what confronts meh ;) [10:17]  Hiro Protagonist: Hiya Kurt :D [10:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: excellent, a sofa [10:18]  Hiro Protagonist: my concerns go kinda like this... [10:18]  Hiro Protagonist: ...with increased media exposure, we will see an influx of a different dort of user [10:18]  Charles Krinkeb: I'll make a proposal on opensim-dev mailing list after more consultation with Hiro and others. Is that a reasonable way to proceed? [10:18]  Hiro Protagonist: a pure user, in fact [10:18]  Hiro Protagonist: I think so, Charles [10:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: that sounds good to me [10:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: seats for everyone! [10:19]  Hiro Protagonist: My concern is, that what is essentially an osgrid user, is potentially going to add many mantii that are not really OpenSim issues as much as OSGrid issues [10:19]  Strawberry Fride: mm - comfy [10:19] Charles Krinkeb: Ok. Got that one out of the way. Agenda: 1) Anthing the Lindens want to say to help us work together more smoothly? [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: aren't osgrid issues also opensim issues? [10:19]  Hiro Protagonist: I'll leave it at that for now and hear you all's thoughts [10:19]  Charles Krinkeb: Justin. some are, some arent [10:19]  Hiro Protagonist: there's certainly some overlap [10:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: could you name one you would consider is not? [10:19]  Hiro Protagonist: Welcome Zha! [10:20]  Hiro Protagonist: well for instance [10:20]  Charles Krinkeb: why doesnt currency work is one that is not. [10:20]  Hiro Protagonist: an av sailling away upon an attempt to enter a down region [10:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi zha, g2 [10:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: charles: good point [10:20]  Hiro Protagonist: Hey G2, ya snucked up on me ;) [10:20] G2 Proto: hey guys! [10:20] Kurt Stringer: Hiro, Charles, I havent seen a lot of noob issues on the ML [10:20]  G2 Proto: lol im like that [10:20] Zha Ewry: Hello peoples [10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: region crossings seem to have deteriorated recently [10:20] Strawberry Fride: hey G2 :) [10:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: or maybe it's just getting more attention [10:20]  BlueWall Slade: is there a FAQ with things like that in it? [10:20]  G2 Proto: hey pal! [10:20]  Strawberry Fride: I'm running 4 regions on a box and it takes a min of 5 seconds [10:20]  Hiro Protagonist: REgion crossings work great for me, as long as both regions are 'OK' [10:21]  Charles Krinkeb: The noob issues tend to get solved on the IRC due to Nebadon and daTwitch working 27 hours/day [10:21]  Strawberry Fride: and it's not a slow box [10:21]  G2 Proto: woot OSgrid running smooth! [10:21]  Bill Humphries: Charles, I'm looking forward to working with OpenSim developers during the beta. I've been getting the machinery in place on our side to track issues that come up during the beta. [10:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, region crossings need work [10:21]  Charles Krinkeb: Lets let Bill have the floor along with Zha or anything releated to interop for a while. [10:21] G2 Proto: I see some Linden support here how cool! [10:21] Hiro Protagonist: well, let us defer for a bit to our honored guests if I may suggest [10:21] Bill Humphries: And if you have not signed up for the beta, please do. [10:22] G2 Proto: what beta? [10:22] Bill Humphries: The URL for the list is: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gridnauts [10:22] Hiro Protagonist surrenders the soapbox [10:22] G2 Proto: oh ok I already got on that cool program [10:22] Dahlia Trimble: 'm signed up :) [10:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: should we have an actual real soapbox? [10:22]  Hiro Protagonist: me too :) [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: with soap written on the side? [10:22] Strawberry Fride: I'm signed up - not seen anything yet though [10:22] G2 Proto: lol [10:22] Hiro Protagonist: LoL what a concept Justin :D [10:22] G2 Proto: me either not much in world group activity either but im sure itll get going soon [10:22] BlueWall Slade: "Tide" [10:22] Kurt Stringer: justincc +1 soapbox [10:23] Bill Humphries: there'll be an email going out in the next day or so with more details on the program [10:23] Strawberry Fride: cool :) [10:23]  G2 Proto: great Bill thaks [10:23]  BlueWall Slade: great [10:23]  Bill Humphries: also, I'm lurking on the opensim-dev and pyogp channels on freenode. [10:23]  Charles Krinkeb: What can OpenSim and OSGrid do to prepare, Bill? [10:24]  Dahlia Trimble: Bill what's your IRC nick? [10:24]  Bill Humphries: Once the beta starts, there will a daily standup meeting in SL [10:24]  G2 Proto: great news Bill! [10:24]  BlueWall Slade: do you use google calendar? [10:24]  Bill Humphries: I want to use that huddle to figure out what people are working on and get a handle on issues. [10:24]  Bill Humphries: BlueWall, yes. [10:25]  BlueWall Slade: ok :) [10:25] Charles Krinkeb: Ok. Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of determining what software changes or server processes OpenSim and OSGrid need to do? [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I imagine participants will need to apply Zha's patch [10:25] Zha Ewry: Well, hopefully a newer version, I'm trying to clean it up, and keep it on trunk [10:25] Bill Humphries: Yes, Zha's patch, but Zha will being updating that. [10:25] G2 Proto: go Zha! [10:26] Charles Krinkeb: Is it fair to say that we should get some or all of Zha's patch applied to the OpenSim svn sometime? [10:26] Bill Humphries: Sorry, Zha, I'm volunteering you for work without asking. [10:26] Zha Ewry: I'm also, with a bit of trepidation, startiung to look at the grid sections [10:26] Dahlia Trimble: I tried applying Zha's patch yesterday but it wouldt build [10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: That needs proper debate within core [10:26] Zha Ewry: One thing I'd suggest, is that there are a couple of things which could move nicely otu of the base patch, into code, wspeerate from the OGP function [10:27] Zha Ewry: I'm going to try and break it out that way, so that you don't have to try to digest it as lump [10:27] Charles Krinkeb: Understood, Justin, and I am not wanting to put anyone on the spot, but merely to start talking about where are are and where we might be going. [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, we're on the first step of a journey [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: where it will lead we don't yet know [10:27] G2 Proto: haha a WOPR how cool! [10:27] Zha Ewry: Hopefully good places ;-) [10:28]  Melanie Milland is Online [10:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, with virgins and overflowing pots of honey [10:28]  Bill Humphries: Zha, do you think you'll have something that folks can apply by Monday? [10:28]  Strawberry Fride: lol" [10:28]  Charles Krinkeb: Eric Reuters came on IRC last week and asked "when will be incorporate this code from Zha". He was told "We'll let you know after we all examine and understand it" [10:28]  Zha Ewry: I'll have an update Monday. How much, is al little speculatie [10:28]  Zha Ewry: That's such a trollish questoin [10:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: lol [10:29]  Hiro Protagonist: That's Eric [10:29]  Charles Krinkeb: He was pressing for a date and we told him "no way will a date be committed to" [10:29]  Zha Ewry smiles [10:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: From what he says, Linden lab are going to start to become an adjunct of opensim ;) [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: providing value added services [10:29] G2 Proto: sounds great [10:29] Zha Ewry: To be honest, I wouldn't put it on a machine that wasn't dedicated for test, and there are a bunch of interesting issues to sort out before I'd change that opionoin [10:29] Charles Krinkeb: In fact, I want to state in public that I will pressure *no* one to do *anything*. It all comes together much faster when we are enjoying the journey. [10:30] Aramis Soren: the media loves David vs Goliath type stories [10:30] Zha Ewry: To a very large extent, that words "proof of concept" are intended to stress that [10:30] Hiro Protagonist: yes, PR management is something that we tend to about like an open sore LoL [10:30] Charles Krinkeb: Well, for us, the journey has all the fun. The end result has fleeting pleasure. [10:30] Hiro Protagonist: if its bleeding, dress the wound ;/ [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: hi melanie [10:30] Dahlia Trimble: I think it of a fun little demo rather than "proof" [10:30] Zha Ewry wonders why she has no bandagaes or healing potions in her inventory [10:31] BlueWall Slade: so, regons in an isolated instance of OpenSim connected to OSGrid would be ok for the patch? [10:31] Hiro Protagonist: Hey Mel ;) [10:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I'm hoping for rather more pleasure at the end [10:31]  Aramis Soren: that's where 'bleeding edge' comes from hehe [10:31]  Kurt Stringer: Hi Melanie [10:31]  Melanie Milland: hi [10:31]  Zha Ewry: With some sorting out of grid and handles, yes [10:31]  Charles Krinkeb: BlueWall, I would say experimenting with the patch is altoghether reasonable. [10:32]  Charles Krinkeb: 19 avatars, 978VIRT, 776RES [10:32]  BlueWall Slade: I could see not integrating it into main production regions as being a good idel :) [10:32] Zha Ewry: I'm actually interested in people's thoughts on what would help them pick it up sooner.. but not as a hijack from the agenda here [10:32] Hiro Protagonist: I think it's the sort of thing we're here for, and inasmuch as it doesnt represent a threat to the broader infrastructure, we should welcome the opportunity to do these sorts of things [10:32] Charles Krinkeb: This is the time. I would say the first thing is having it apply smoothly. [10:32] Aramis Soren: that has to be separate anyway because of the custom viewer doesn't it? [10:32] BlueWall Slade: smooth++ [10:33] Zha Ewry: Smooth +++ [10:33] Hiro Protagonist: yes, Zha, dont worry about that - we tend to bang our drums just about every waking hour ;D [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: aramis: I believe that is correct (?) [10:33] Charles Krinkeb: Is it fair to say that the patch should not affect normal OpenSim region operation? [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: yeah, KEEP THE NOISE DOWN! [10:33] Zha Ewry learns the source of her poudnign headacce [10:33] Dahlia Trimble: speaking of dates, wny word of the viewer availability? [10:33] Hiro Protagonist chuckles [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: decent people are trying to sleep :) [10:33]  Hiro Protagonist slaps the drum around with a large trout [10:33]  Bill Humphries: Dahlia, we are working to getting a viewer available by Monday. [10:34]  G2 Proto: sweet! [10:34]  Strawberry Fride: woo! [10:34]  Bill Humphries: I'll let the gridnauts list know if there will be any slippage. [10:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: zha: Is the patch compatible with having a normal region on osgrid? [10:34]  BlueWall Slade: viewer += 25 [10:34]  Hiro Protagonist: awesome :D [10:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: zha: or should the patch be applied to a separate test region (as I think you've said) [10:34]  Zha Ewry: I don't think it is at this point,. [10:34]  Zha Ewry: It has about three things which would make me very queesy in grid mode [10:34]  Charles Krinkeb: I'm ignoring all the implications of the OpenSim UserServer and AgentDomain so as not to derail the conversation, but I suspect we will need to address some of those to do grid-grid teleports. [10:34] Dahlia Trimble: will the viewer be usable as a normal viewer? [10:34] G2 Proto: gridnauts rule! though wikipedia deleted my Gridnauts page, fools! [10:34] Hiro Protagonist: Zha: is that one of the current focii of your patch work? [10:34] Zha Ewry: (including the hackery on handles) [10:35] Zha Ewry: Hiro : yes [10:35] Hiro Protagonist: +1 [10:35] Bill Humphries: Dahlia, I don't know the answer to that, but will get an answer. [10:35] Zha Ewry: In rough order: [10:35] Dahlia Trimble: ty :) [10:35]  Bill Humphries: I recommend installing it in a different path from the regular viewer if possible. [10:35]  Dahlia Trimble: k [10:35]  BlueWall Slade: maybe we can have a gridnauts channel on freenode? [10:35]  Zha Ewry: Get the worst gorp out of the current path (which includes som state stashing which needs better factoring) [10:35]  Bill Humphries: Such as on a Mac in ~/Applications instead of /Applications [10:36]  Zha Ewry: Get the handles to behave normally [10:36]  Hiro Protagonist already has a dedicated client directory with several revs in it [10:36]  Zha Ewry: and adding a minimal whitelist [10:36]  Zha Ewry: Oh, and keeping current with tweaks on the deployed test grid at linden [10:37]  Charles Krinkeb: Ok. Anymore on interop for today? [10:37]  Zha Ewry: Somehwere in there, sorting out why odd things happen with inventory on login, via theinterop path would be nice ;) [10:38] BlueWall Slade: do we want a separate irc channel for the OGP/OpenSim integration [10:38] BlueWall Slade: ? [10:38] Hiro Protagonist: Blue: I think it wouldnt be at all a bad thing [10:38] Bill Humphries: BlueWall, it will be gridnauts on freenode. [10:38] Hiro Protagonist: in fact, let me just say +1 [10:38] BlueWall Slade: it would keep opensim unclutterd w/interop issues [10:38] Dahlia Trimble: gridnauts-dev? [10:38] Zha Ewry: Seems like a good idea [10:39] Bill Humphries: I have a side project to learn about IRC bots. [10:39] BlueWall Slade: help focus issues in the right channel [10:39] Charles Krinkeb: Next subject: "What needs to be done to be able to tag the 0.6 release that is not done?" [10:40] Hiro Protagonist: whatever makes sdaugue happyhappy with nHybernate [10:40] Kurt Stringer thinks... great.. another irc channel to monitor... [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: hey, look at the opensim office hours poster [10:40] Hiro Protagonist eats IRC channels for breakfast [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm already at my irc channel limit [10:41] Charles Krinkeb: Right. Is there a point where we can declare LSL good enough for 0.6 or is there significant work left? [10:41] Hiro Protagonist: we have all stubs for LSL/osL correct? [10:41] Charles Krinkeb: stubs have been there for some time. Its the guys of 88 or so functions that are missing. [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: oh by the way, I assum eother people are having avatar appearance issues [10:41] Melanie Milland: as far as i believe, yes [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: seeing other people as grey avatars and what not? [10:41] Hiro Protagonist: /OT: anyone ever notice the resemblance between WOPR and a steam locomotive but me? [10:41] Strawberry Fride: yes [10:41] Melanie Milland: last time i found a missing stub is months ago [10:42] Charles Krinkeb: shhhhh, Hiro [10:42] Hiro Protagonist: Justin: that could use some lurve, but I dont think it was a 0.6 req [10:42] Gridcat Adamczyk: /ot yes [10:42] Axaes Xandal: speaking of appearance issues, I have a textual insulst floating above me [10:42]  Charles Krinkeb: Fair to say this is the time to push towards a 0.6 release on the opensim-dev mailing list? [10:42] Axaes Xandal: when I look up [10:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: axaes: not as far as I cna see [10:42] Hiro Protagonist: I see naught but your name Axa [10:43] Axaes Xandal: no only I see it when I look up [10:43]  Bill Humphries: check your attachments? [10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: axaes: bizarre, maybe you'd like to post a screen shot? [10:43] Axaes Xandal: ok [10:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: charles: so what was the lsl target again? [10:45] Hiro Protagonist: nothing but stubs Justin [10:45] Hiro Protagonist: easy-peasey [10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: kind of sounds like we might have met that then? [10:45] Charles Krinkeb: Anyone object to calling LSL complete enough for 0.6? [10:45] Hiro Protagonist: +1 [10:45] Hiro Protagonist: oops [10:46] Hiro Protagonist: read 'willing' [10:46] Hiro Protagonist: I'm for it [10:46]  Charles Krinkeb: How about the missing events? [10:46] Hiro Protagonist: missing events are a pita [10:46] Hiro Protagonist: but not a .6 req [10:46] Hiro Protagonist: afaik [10:46] Kurt Stringer: stubs - last time I went throught the LSL status, I double checked that we had them all [10:46] Melanie Milland: i'd like to see what kurt's refactor brings in [10:46]  Kurt Stringer: we do, I added the last 2 or 3 [10:47] Melanie Milland: it would be nice to have LSL unified in 0.6 [10:47] Kurt Stringer: Melanie, first pass will not change any functionality [10:47] Kurt Stringer: second phase will include unified LSL and OSSL [10:47] BlueWall Slade: FLW :) [10:47]  Melanie Milland: i c [10:47]  Charles Krinkeb: Sure. I think the pressure is mostly due to the fact we have not had a major release in months. [10:47]  Melanie Milland: second phase FTW [10:48]  Kurt Stringer: prob is that I can't break anything [10:48]  Melanie Milland: but +1 on 0.6 then [10:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, we can release when we like [10:48]  Hiro Protagonist: we kinda need to recognize targets we've set in the past Mel - else we might as well just release by SVN revision# [10:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: there shouldn't be any pressure [10:48]  Kurt Stringer: it would really help if I could get feedback and check in a third engine [10:48]  Kurt Stringer: but I understand the reason not to at this point [10:48]  Charles Krinkeb: Should I press less for 0.6 then? [10:48]  Melanie Milland: i already +1'd going ahead :) [10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: I really don't know if we want a third engine [10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: two is bad enough [10:48] Kurt Stringer: the last thing we need is ANOTHER engine [10:48] Kurt Stringer: yep [10:48] Kurt Stringer: so, the process will be really long and painful [10:49] Kurt Stringer: and closed until I get to a first pahse checkin [10:49] Justin Clark-Casey mutters welcome to OpenSim development [10:49] Justin Clark-Casey: joking! [10:49] Charles Krinkeb: Ok, 20 minutes left and two more agenda items. [10:49] Kurt Stringer: thats the catch [10:49] Kurt Stringer: justincc - been here for a while ;-) [10:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: where's the agenda? [10:49]  Hiro Protagonist: I am completely in agreement with those who wish to avoid increased complexity at any cost - but I have to temper that with an understanding that some increase in complexity is necesary and proper [10:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: so you're in favour of complexity, but not too much? [10:50]  Hiro Protagonist: as a last resort mate ;) [10:50] Hiro Protagonist: always and only ;) [10:50]  Kurt Stringer: sounds too complicated [10:50]  Hiro Protagonist: ;p [10:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's like porridge I guess [10:51]  Hiro Protagonist waits for the punchline [10:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: er, not too cold, not too hot, just right? [10:51]  Aramis Soren: ...jussssst right! [10:51]  Hiro Protagonist: ahhh gotcha [10:51]  BlueWall Slade: hehe [10:51]  Hiro Protagonist is not overly familiar with porridge [10:51]  Strawberry Fride: I was sitting here thinking of Ronnie Barker [10:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: don't they have porridge in texas [10:52]  Charles Krinkeb: Carefully seaguing into the next agenda item very cleverly: "What are the things from the developers viewpoint that the testers could do to make their life easier?" [10:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: heh, a brit eh? [10:52]  Hiro Protagonist: lols [10:52]  Melanie Milland: here's one : skull attachment [10:52] Hiro Protagonist: I havent come across any recently Justin :D [10:52] Strawberry Fride: someone got the reference! (phew) [10:52] Charles Krinkeb: Do we need to test skull attachments, Melanie? [10:52] Hiro Protagonist: what about it Mel? [10:52] Strawberry Fride: yeah +1 skull attachments [10:52] Melanie Milland: they weren't working right, is my last info [10:52] Hiro Protagonist: you are correct [10:53] Strawberry Fride: can't edit position of a skull attachment [10:53] Hiro Protagonist: they need some luvin [10:53] Melanie Milland: we got the bulk of it [10:53]  Hiro Protagonist: are we still on the subject of 0.6? [10:53] Melanie Milland: someone familiar with the code there can probably do it easy enough [10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus was the guy who worked on a lot of attachment code [10:53] Charles Krinkeb: We need more data for the developers then "not working right", I suspect. And Hiro, go ahead. [10:53] Hiro Protagonist: oh I was just wondering if the attachment thing was tied to 0.6 [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: we dont have it on our list as I recall [10:54] Aramis Soren: will you do 0.5.9 first or jump to .6? [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: I think attachments in general were slated to 0.7 [10:54] Charles Krinkeb: In general, when I make an agenda, it is always fair to go back and discuss a previous agenda item. My agenda items are intended solely to keep us more or less focused. [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: right [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: here's my take on a 0.6 release [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: we need to get one out guys [10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: Am I able to see the agenda from my current position? [10:55] Hiro Protagonist: recent security enhancements need to be broadly available on a first-use basis [10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: err, huh? [10:55] Hiro Protagonist: certain things have been done to limit the effects of certain commonly used griefer tools [10:55] Charles Krinkeb: Agenda is four questions in this order: 1) Linden Interop 2) 0.6 3)Testers helping developers 4) Developers helping testers. [10:56] Hiro Protagonist: have we moved on to 3) ? [10:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: I never signed up to 4)! [10:56] Justin Clark-Casey: :) [10:56]  Justin Clark-Casey gets a feeling of deja vu [10:56]  Charles Krinkeb: yes, 3 is approprieate and I think skull attachments were mentioned. And, Justin, I am not hard of hearing, I am ignoring your last. [10:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: good :) [10:57] Hiro Protagonist: ok, I think I've had my say in re: 0.6 ;) [10:57]  Hiro Protagonist: Mel, are you interested in working on skull attachments? [10:57]  Gridcat Adamczyk: is it really skul attachements? i have problems with multiple prims as attachements in general. i can move single [10:57]  Hiro Protagonist: (btw, I have not forgotten you asked for a repro recently) [10:58]  Gridcat Adamczyk: but have to redo that when i have something copied [10:58]  You: what im wondering, is whats differnt between head attachment and mouth attachment [10:58]  You: they both are virtually identical attachment points [10:58]  Strawberry Fride: I have my hair on my mouth on my grid [10:58]  Hiro Protagonist: I had it explained to me sort of like a linkset [10:58]  You: yea [10:58]  G2 Proto: lol [10:58]  You: skull and mouth are the same [10:58]  Hiro Protagonist: and that the skull attachment is the zero prim [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: you have a tache? [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: a hairlip :) [10:59]  Strawberry Fride: lol! [10:59]  Strawberry Fride: Flexi red beareded lady [10:59]  Aramis Soren: same here hair attached to mouth in SL, everytime i smoke i go bald [10:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: sweet jesus, sounds like a fun night out [10:59]  You: heh [10:59]  G2 Proto: lol [10:59]  Hiro Protagonist: ROFL JCC [10:59]  Strawberry Fride: at least you can move them when attached to mouth [11:00]  Hiro Protagonist: or a hot afternoon in Texas ;) [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: well, smoking can make you go bald, eventually [11:00] You: another problem we need to resolve, is the loss of time in the simulators [11:00] Hiro Protagonist: damn, is that what happened to me? [11:00] You: why simulator time is so much differnt than the servers time [11:00] Hiro Protagonist: it didnt use to be that way did it Neb? [11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh, so that happens in places other than here? [11:00] Strawberry Fride: I would love that to be sorted [11:00] You: seems all the plazas are affected [11:00] You: yes [11:00] Hiro Protagonist: yeah it's systemic at this point [11:00] You: windows plazas too [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh wow [11:00] Zha Ewry waves and heads out to the next meeting... [11:01] Hiro Protagonist: TC Zha [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey waves to Zha [11:01] G2 Proto: cya Zha [11:01] You: bye Zha [11:01] Strawberry Fride: seeya Jha [11:01] Hiro Protagonist: thanks! [11:01] Strawberry Fride: Zha even [11:01] Dahlia Trimble: see you there Zha [11:01] Zha Ewry: Laters, and anyone with input,feel free to tap me in any space you can find me [11:01]  Axaes Xandal: bye Zha [11:01] Strawberry Fride puts wine to one side [11:01] G2 Proto: will do [11:01]  Justin Clark-Casey so I presume the actual system time is now slowed down? [11:01] You: maybe a few minutes [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: not slowed down, I mean [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: which would be more bizarre [11:01] You: but the system time and simulator time never seem synced [11:01] Melanie Milland: time as measuerd in what way? [11:02] You: the simulator time is always wildly off [11:02] Hiro Protagonist: by the sim [11:02] Bill Humphries: Eeep, it's time for Zero OO's... see some of you there. [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: thetime in the top right hand corner? [11:02] Strawberry Fride: my system is running 4 minutes slow, my sim is way off that [11:02] Melanie Milland: where do i see the sim time? [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: (assuming you use the LL client) [11:02] You: yea [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: bye bill [11:02] Melanie Milland: and is that the 4 hour "day" [11:02] Melanie Milland: ? [11:02] You: that time is never correct justin [11:02] Hiro Protagonist: next to the $L in the client [11:02] Axaes Xandal: Bye Bill [11:02] You: its always like 1.35 hours off [11:02] You: something odd [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: wow, that's wild [11:03] Strawberry Fride: system time 20:56, sim time 11:56 [11:03] You: yea its never consistant [11:03] Dahlia Trimble heads out.... bye all :) [11:03] Charles Krinkeb: Last question: "What are the simple things developers could do to help testers without distracting developers from, er, development?" [11:03]  Strawberry Fride: seeya Dahlia [11:03]  Hiro Protagonist: bye Dahl [11:03]  G2 Proto: bye] [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: interesting [11:03]  You: i read 11:03 in the viewer [11:03]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:03]  Strawberry Fride: on here, it's 11:03 [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like some interesting to dig into [11:03]  Hiro Protagonist: same here Neb [11:03]  Axaes Xandal: Bye Dahlia [11:03]  Strawberry Fride: just on my sim it's never "my" time [11:03]  You: yea it might uncover other issues [11:03]  Aramis Soren: a quick list of what and how new security stuff can be activated...? [11:03]  You: with timing [11:03]  Charles Krinkeb: I think time is on the OSGrid managers plate, methinks. [11:04]  Aramis Soren: were those patches put in svn or must they be applied separate still? [11:04] Melanie Milland: the estate dialog delivers a value between 0x1800 and 0x7800 [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: aspects of it sound like they could be more systemic [11:04] Hiro Protagonist: SVN [11:04] Aramis Soren: k [11:04]  Melanie Milland: which is 0-0x6000 + 0x1800 [11:04] Charles Krinkeb: And is probably something that affects the usefullness of logs. [11:04] You: yea [11:04] You: like this chat log [11:04] You: i will post to the wiki for 1 [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: the time in the log files is fine [11:04] You: hehe [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: as far as I cna see [11:04] Melanie Milland: i wonder if the 0x1800 constant offset the client sends has anything to do with that [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: altohugh the client appears to lose minutes over time [11:05] Hiro Protagonist: 1800 seconds is an hour and a half? [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: so the client is showing 11;05 while the server thinks it is 12:49 [11:05] Melanie Milland: i think the system wallclock time is taken *time dilation [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: oh well, maybe I'm not right actually [11:05] Charles Krinkeb: yep [11:05] Aramis Soren: .8 of an hour is 48 min [11:05] Melanie Milland: think i saw that in the code [11:05] Melanie Milland: that would be wrong [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: oh okay [11:05] Melanie Milland: and cause the issue if so [11:06]  Hiro Protagonist: 1800 seconds is actually 30 mins [11:06] Melanie Milland: anyway, there might be a clue in there [11:06] Charles Krinkeb: Ok. I gotta go pretend I am working and move the papers from the left side of my desk to the right side for a while. I declare the official meeting over and free-for-all. [11:06] Hiro Protagonist would bet on it [11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks charles [11:06] G2 Proto: lol [11:07] Strawberry Fride: :) [11:07]  Melanie Milland: so do we look at the corener prims now? [11:07]  G2 Proto: same here thanks all! [11:07]  Melanie Milland: :P [11:07]  Melanie Milland: corner* [11:07]  G2 Proto: bye everyone! [11:07]  Aramis Soren: later g2