Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-04

[10:57] Now playing: 4tThieves - kahvi essential selection [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: not got much time to play with robust. organizing other things first [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [10:57] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I have a 7.6 Robust running on windows, but no sims connected [10:57] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: yet [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi nebadon [10:58] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: hello nebadon [10:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi teravus [10:58] Teravus Ousley: Hallo! [10:58] Sarah Kline: hi all [10:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Sarah [10:59] dan banner: hi [10:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah [10:59] Richardus Raymaker: i btw like to play with 0.7.6 bullet first instead of robust [11:00] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: we have just some sandboxes with bullet, waiting it becomoes more stable before to use it widely [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: ill create my own sandbox [11:01] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: The last experimental update for bullet with thread isolation appears to exhibit noticeable lag [11:01] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: byw, robert said he corrected the problem of feet sinking in the prims but i see my feet under the floor [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: feet thing is probably not 100% yet [11:02] Sarah Kline: make your avatar shorter [11:02] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: :) [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: its fine for me [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I have not tried the most current bulletsim stuff yet myself [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: i run weeks behind. [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: but still like mono 3 [11:05] Sarah Kline: hello [11:05] Kayaker Magic: Hello! [11:06] Sarah Kline: look forward to the end of the alligator story next load test ) [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back. Desktop locked up on me. [11:06] Teravus Ousley: hehe [11:06] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Played around with the developer version of SUSE, comes with mono 3.08 and monodevelop, seems stable [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: resident what? [11:06] Sarah Kline: Brit [11:08] Sarah Kline: lol [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: compileing always mono myself. [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Only difference between the files is the URL/machine references. [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... my previous comment didn't get through. [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Been redoing the configuration for OS. Works fine for test grid but not for main grid. [11:10] Teravus Ousley: Hallow then.. What brings you to this meeting today? :) [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Richardus. [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Robust on main grid gives complaints about slow post when it starts. [11:11] Sarah Kline: Have had slow logging in all week [11:11] Sarah Kline: to plazas [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It is something to do with assets. [11:12] Teravus Ousley: OpenSim comments? mantis standouts? howzit in the opensimtubes community? :D [11:12] logger sewell: Hey all [11:12] Kayaker Magic: Someone mentioned Suse, I'm running OpenSim on Suse with mono 3.0.4, it has been very reliable [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It is annoying to have config stuff working on one machine but not on another. [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: thats 12.3 opensuse [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: but i upgraded to 3.0.7 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i mostly use opensuse 12.3 myself [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and mostly mono 3.0.7 [11:13] Kayaker Magic: A few weeks ago, I asked about mantis 6121, 6421 and 6573 : Move and rotate a seated avatar [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: my desktop has mono 3.0.11 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: from the mono git [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: hello krystalkid [11:13] Kayaker Magic: Justin seemed to expect me to give some reasons why those should be fixed. [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: Justin will be here shortly btw [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: that one compielks nebadon ? because newer ojnes got stuck on com[ile error here. [11:14] Kayaker Magic: I wasn't prepared then, should I list a few reasons now? [11:14] krystalkid nightfire: Hiia Richardus [11:14] stiofain nbmcmedia: hi folks [11:14] Teravus Ousley: Hello :) [11:14] dan banner: howdy [11:15] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Just some people had problems witj MonoDevelop, this has it all http://software.opensuse.org/developer/en [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, betetr dont type i think :O [11:15] Teravus Ousley: ahh, cool. I suspect mantis 6421 is simply about a (SceneObjectGroup/SceneObjectPart) test and should also test for a (ScenePresence) [11:16] Teravus Ousley: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6421 [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have some issues with monodevelop and single stepping through our code [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it wants to jump into the SmartThreadPool stuff [11:16] Teravus Ousley: Sounds like a debugger callstack issue [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: i still use with linux smartpool. and not the unsafe one [11:17] Teravus Ousley: I used to get those on MSVC all the time when working on Physics.. drove me crazy [11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I should do a bisect back to the place theat the STP was upgraded [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: Kayaker i would suggest also commenting your reasons on the mantis as well [11:18] Teravus Ousley: One thing that seems to do nifty things on it.. is make sure that the code isn't set to be optimized. Some projects that I worked on in the past were randomly set to be optimized and it produced weird results like that too in MVSC.. would probably do the same in MonoDevelop [11:18] Kayaker Magic: You mean pasting them into the Mantis? I can do that. [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya that would be good, its more permanent record [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: easier to reference what your talking about etc.. [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think justin might be looking at that. [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: so when he comes... [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: Hope everyone will be coming to the load test today [11:21] dan banner: yup [11:21] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Profiles moving along nicely, thanks Bluewall [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cp4ahh0rhicg83gvl1o7uh9gtko [11:21] Kayaker Magic: I'm trying to drum up interest in the things that can be done with that mantis fix, so thought it could be mentioned here (as well). [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: What has been happening with Profiles? [11:21] Teravus Ousley: erm.. I missed the anouncement this time [11:21] Teravus Ousley: :) [11:21] Teravus Ousley: No voice though :) [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortunately voice is just too harsh in the 4 corner situation [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: really killed performance levels [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: which voice system kills performance? FreeSwitch or ViVox? [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: Vivox, but likely both [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: k [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: when you log in it makes 4 http requests simultanously [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so if you get a mass of people all going in at once, it gets nasty [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: sounds strange, so much have not to be done for vivox. unless the information exchange is hugh bottle [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. I've seen the console when I login to my grid and see multiple requests going to Vivox [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: opensim + hugh traffic keeps nasty.. [11:24] Teravus Ousley: Well, the biggest thing is they're going to servers that you have no control over the responsiveness [11:25] Teravus Ousley: It would be one thing if you had your own Vivox server that was fast and responded quickly :) [11:25] Teravus Ousley: but the community vivox may not be suitable for high load scenarios :) [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: the community account we have is the same as a commercial level account [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: 25k users [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: likely just a fraction of that being used [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I am more likely to blame opensim at this point without real hard evidence showing vivox was underperforming [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: i cant believe vivox would be the bottleneck. [11:27] Teravus Ousley: well, the argument was simply that you have no control over their performance so disable it for load testing. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: we wont need it for that part of the event anyway [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: so it would be kind of silly to have it enabled it would have been nice, but unfortunately not in the cards this time [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks, sorry I'm late [11:29] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:29] logger sewell: Hi Justin [11:29] Sarah Kline: Hi Justing [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: so.. many ... meetings and shitty things to sort out :) [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: :) [11:31] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey wonders if he killed the conversatin [11:31] Kayaker Magic: hehe [11:31] Teravus Ousley: No, there wasn't really much being discussed prior to your arrival [11:31] Teravus Ousley: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6421 was one [11:31] Teravus Ousley: Then the load test discussion [11:31] Teravus Ousley: that led to voice comments about opensim and vivox in high load scenarios [11:32] UUID Speaker: Dick Mikado: 7d3899f8-1662-457d-b8a2-491e9da31b1f [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, 6421 [11:32] UUID Speaker: Dick Mikado: 7d3899f8-1662-457d-b8a2-491e9da31b1f [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I really do want to work on that one but simply have not had the block of time [11:32] Kayaker Magic: I just added a list of a dozen reasons why 6421 and 6573 should be fixed to # 6121. [11:32] Kayaker Magic: SHALL I DUM THEM HERE AS WELL????! [11:32] Kayaker Magic: DUMP [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think there's much point really [11:34] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, figured I shouldn't bore you all with them.... [11:34] dan banner: justin: yesterday you asked about that "Too many heap sections: Increase MAXHINCR or MAX_HEAP_SECTS" error [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: it is useful to see though [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: in the mantis [11:35] dan banner: i checked the logs and its seems to have started happening [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: which server? [11:35] dan banner: plaza 08 and 09 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:36] dan banner: the welcome station crashes like once a day and lbsa has had a few of those too [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ok i'll poke around a little later see if anything jumps out at me [11:37] dan banner: can MAX_HEAP_SECTS be an environment setting? [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya, but its more at the kernel level [11:38] Vivian Klees:. [11:39] Teravus Ousley: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7248980/mono-too-many-heap-sections-increase-maxhincr-or-max-heap-sects-when-app-takes [11:40] Teravus Ousley: error message could be fixed by adding ‑DLARGE_CONFIG to the CFLAGS section in my GNUmakefile. <=== ? [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: that uel say he compiled wrong [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya are the simulators actually using more than 4gb ram though? [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, whats wright useing ? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it would surprise me that they were [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: especially Lbsa and Welcome Statino [11:41] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         cc7aa88: 2013-05-29 23:08:54 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: Wright uses same settings that Welcome Station does [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its same server [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: i mean memory useage [11:43] Teravus Ousley: Random rediculous stack overflow question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/147130/why-doesnt-c-have-a-garbage-collector?rq=1 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: MEMORY STATISTICS Allocated to OpenSim objects: 1737 MB OpenSim last object memory churn : 8.767 MB/s OpenSim average object memory churn : 16.279 MB/s Process memory : 2487 MB [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: huh, I thought robert adams was here - he must have just gone [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: think he's still on bullet sim [11:44] vegaslon plutonian: correct [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so are you doing a load tes ttoday? [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: I see so [11:45] krystalkid nightfire: who steppin me [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: you do know it's EDT and not EST right? :) [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yes Justin [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: speaking of the load test [11:45] krystalkid nightfire: nm [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: something i noticed [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, sorry I just haven't had a chance to put in any of the stats I wanted to :( [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i noticed that if i cam around sometimes in other regions im not in at these tests [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: the peope in one of the other regions are all standing in their chairs [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: how rdue [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and their upper body is like flailing around [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: That's a new one on me [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: like pivoting at the waist [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: it could just be singularity [11:47] tx Oh: hmm.. we have some unknown users [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i'll have to see if i notice it today with Kokua too [11:47] tx Oh: i guess one is justin :-) [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that unknown user thing... urgh [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: I do have another clue but simply no time to chase it yet [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: Unkonwn userUMMAU? [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: although of course this stuff can also be cached [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: hi tx, me ? [11:48] tx Oh: Unknown User: hi tx, me ? yes? [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: weird. someone else told me to [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: if you;'re seeing just "unknown User" then that's because youi have tne name binding cached [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: you have to clear your viewer cache to change that [11:49] tx Oh: i have a very slow connection today :-( [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it looks like that MAZ_HEAP things could possibly be the garbage collector failing [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4728537/boehm-gc-garbage-collector-too-many-heap-sections-increase-maxhincr-or-max-h [11:49] posh prim: ummau the osgrid ghost [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i just switch complete to sgen [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i suppose we could try that [11:51] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Think I will have a break before the test.. on the hour? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: see if it made any impact [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya load test in 8 minutes [11:52] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: hi robert [11:52] Robert Adams: hi all.... sorry I'm a bit late [11:52] Sarah Kline: HI Seriously overweight Robert [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: a bit late! [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: :) [11:52] Kayaker Magic: How do I get to the Load Test? Is it just on a SIM in the OSGrid? What is it's name? [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: hypergrid [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the addresses are on this page : https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cp4ahh0rhicg83gvl1o7uh9gtko [11:53] Robert Adams: open the map... type "cc.opensimulator.org:8002:keynote 1" for the region name and search for same [11:53] Robert Adams: when it finds it, say 'teleport' [11:54] Teravus Ousley: [11:53] Second Life: Region found! [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, robert, I wasnted to ask you a bulletsim terrain question? [11:55] Robert Adams: fire away [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I notice once can't teleport an avatar under terrain in BulletSim (if one removes the failsafes), uinlike ODE [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: brb i am afk a few moments [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: Does BulletSim separately prevent this or just work differently? [11:55] Robert Adams: you want to do that? [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: bad things happen in ODE depending on how far under you teleport [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: no, I want to it never to happen [11:56] Robert Adams: BulletSim checks to see if the avatar is under terrain and moves the avatar to be over same [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I have a person who sees libomv avatars remain underground on occasion [11:56] Robert Adams: it doesn't allow an avatar to be below terrain [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: ok [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: out of curiosity, do you thnink ode could ever do the same? [11:57] Teravus Ousley: It could, sure. There's no reason why it couldn't. It just doesn't right now. [11:57] Robert Adams: there always can be bugs, but that's the way it is designed [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thanks [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: btw, do you think after the next release we could switch to bulletsim as the default phys eng? Is it ready? [11:58] Robert Adams: I think it is.... what are you thinking of doing the next release? [11:58] Robert Adams: when [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: you mean 0.7.6 release justin ? [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully starting soon but there are some nbugs I really would like to see cleared up first [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: namely the issue with ghost avatars (false connections) and the unknown user stuff [11:59] Robert Adams: if there are any for me, I will dig into them..... I want BulletSim to be the default [11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: Hey Robert, quick question - does BulletSim use single-precision or double-precision by default? [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I think 0.7.6 will be the last ode release then immediately after we could switch and have time to work out any kinks that come up [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: before the next release after that [12:00] Teravus Ousley: Sounds good to me [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, looks like the top of the hour [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: Everyone ready to jump over? [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: 0.7.7 gives a bit more time yes [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: could you capture the meeting log quickly? [12:00] Sarah Kline: yup [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: sure