Chat log from the meeting on 2008-12-16

[12:00] : ok, I see them [12:00] :. [12:00] : some are borken i assume [12:00] : ohh [12:00] : ok maybe its not fully rezzed [12:00] : give it a moment [12:00]  Robert Linden has left [12:00] : perhaps your missing parts of the couch still [12:01] : I think the circles need to be moved forward [12:01] : there will be little circle pads to sit upon [12:01] : it's white, right? [12:01]  Homer Horwitz has arrived [12:01]  Jenniver Quandry has arrived [12:01] : no doubt rezzing is slow with this kind of load [12:01]  Gaspar.Roux http://67.202.16.49:8002 has left [12:01] : so if you dont see the couch circles they will eventually rez in, they are just little cylinder like seat cushions [12:02] <Nebadon Izumi>: 24 of them [12:02] <Wright Plaza> tx Oh has arrived [12:02] <Blaksmith Rubble>: brb .. getting coffee [12:02] <Homer Horwitz>: Hi :) [12:02] <tx Oh>: hi [12:02] <Charles Krinke>: Well, just to get things going... Are we still aiming for a 0.6.1 minor release this weekend? [12:02] <sacha Magne>: hi homer, neb [12:02] <Nebadon Izumi>: i have noticed rezzing has been slower recently, but its been more reliable [12:02] <Nebadon Izumi>: takes longer but you do eventually get it all [12:02] <Nebadon Izumi>: instead of it just stopping and never loading [12:03] <Nebadon Izumi>: probably needs some more fine tuning in that area maybe with the speed throttles [12:03] <Justin Clark-Casey>: you probably want to wait to see if Diva's fixes take before doing 0.6.1 [12:03] <sacha Magne>: 06.1 in stable ? [12:03] <Wright Plaza> Sunisa Tachikawa has arrived [12:04] <Charles Krinke>: I understand. What I am really asking is "Are we seeing reliability the last couple of days?" [12:04]	-->|	jhurliman (n=jhurlima@c-98-207-233-228.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:04]	-->|	IdeiaBoa (i=IdeiaBoa@c83-251-31-123.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:04]	-->|	suzyq (n=suzyq@cpe-70-113-110-5.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:04]	-->|	cmickeyb (n=mbowman@nat/intel/x-05eadc8d1e9de18f) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:04] <Homer Horwitz>: The IRC bridge works better than last week, at least ;) [12:04] <Wright Plaza> Darren Vayandar has arrived [12:04]	-->|	BlueWall (i=1000@adsl-074-237-137-028.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:05]	<HomerH>	In the other direction, too? [12:05] <Homer Horwitz>: Yep :) [12:05]	-->|	Bud5 (n=chatzill@adsl-68-95-123-26.dsl.pnblar.swbell.net) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:05] <Wright Plaza> Babbage Linden has arrived [12:05] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea IRC works great [12:05] <Nebadon Izumi>: but if you get any kind of DNS interupt [12:05] <Nebadon Izumi>: and disconnect from IRC and it cant reconnect [12:05] <Nebadon Izumi>: it doesnt handle that well at all [12:05] <Charles Krinke>: How do we handle testing between our 0.6.0-stable branch and trunk. Is anyone testing the 0.6.0-stable branch? [12:06] <Nebadon Izumi>: so it needs to be used a bit more sparingly at the moment [12:06] <Wright Plaza> Patnad Babii has arrived [12:06] <Blaksmith Rubble>: back [12:06] <Charles Krinke>: Are we at the stage where the 0.0.6-stable branch is incompatible with trunk? [12:06] <Justin Clark-Casey>: christ, this is more elasticated than M&S underwear [12:06] <Justin Clark-Casey>: it is incompatible [12:06] <sacha Magne>: charles, i can install the new stable in my grid [12:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: lol [12:07] <Homer Horwitz>: A new stable is out? [12:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: i saw MW updated stable today earlier [12:07] <sacha Magne>: just asking [12:07] <Wright Plaza> Darren Vayandar has left [12:07] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I don't know what they plan to do with that branch [12:07] <Homer Horwitz>: I thought 0.6 stable was incompatible with trunk the moment it got out... [12:07] <Homer Horwitz>: Well, about 2 hours later, at least. [12:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea i think right now there is a cut off at 7708? [12:08] <Wright Plaza> Darren Vayandar has arrived [12:08] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, it might have been - I suppose it all depends on whether the protocol version number got bumped [12:08] <Charles Krinke>: I saw that update also which is why I am asking. I believe r7707 was a breaking change. [12:08] <Babbage Linden>: hi everyone [12:08] <Wright Plaza> Klaus Thibaud has left [12:08] <sacha Magne>: Beep; i got an issue with 7703 [12:08] <Homer Horwitz>: 7708, actually, if you count inter-region comms, too. [12:08] <Nebadon Izumi>: Hellow Babbage [12:08] <Justin Clark-Casey>: it was deinitely updated recently so the branches are incompatible [12:08] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea somewhere around there [12:08] <Homer Horwitz>: 7707 was UGAIM <-> region [12:08] <Charles Krinke>: morning, Babbage. [12:08]	<Ter_afk>	Hello Babbage [12:08] <sacha Magne>: hi babbage [12:08] <Homer Horwitz>: Hi Babbage [12:08] <sacha Magne>: i opened the mantis as Diva asked me to [12:08] <Babbage Linden>: i made it in this week, hooray! [12:08] <Charles Krinke>: Lets start with anything the Lindens wish to bring up as normal. [12:09] <Nebadon Izumi>: hehe Welcome to OSGrid :) [12:09] <Wright Plaza> Patnad Babii has left [12:09] <Nebadon Izumi>: i wonder if Whump is here this week too? [12:09] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has arrived [12:09] <Wright Plaza> Patnad Babii has arrived [12:09] <Justin Clark-Casey>: we're having an elasticated theme this week [12:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: hehe yea im sure it will settle down a bit [12:10] <Justin Clark-Casey>: and an odd sitting position theme [12:10] <Babbage Linden>: whump is coming in 20 minutes [12:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: hehe Babba have to wait for the seat cushions to rez [12:10] <Babbage Linden>: ok [12:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: ok great [12:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea its a bit slow on 1st load especially [12:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: give it a minute [12:10] <Babbage Linden>: i can see the sofas [12:10] <Babbage Linden>: and people sitting in them [12:10] <Wright Plaza> Latif Khalifa has arrived [12:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: cool there should be cylinder cushions [12:10]	<DigiDaz>	This is impossible, I'll stay on IRC [12:10] <Blaksmith Rubble>: seems fine after rez-in :D [12:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: 24 of them [12:11] <Homer Horwitz>: *in* them is the correct term, I guess ;) [12:11] <tx Oh>: lol [12:11] <Blaksmith Rubble>: heh yah... the couch is eating us LOL [12:11] <Zha Ewry>: Zha Ewry is impressed with how little she can see today [12:11] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yes, the sofa looks... perhaps not as ergonomically sound as it would have to be in real life? [12:11]	|<--	wright_plaza_8 has left freenode (Remote closed the connection) [12:11]	 	lost it [12:11]	-->|	SachaMagne (i=d9805b73@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8539668331b264a1) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:11]	 	sim died [12:11]	 	coming back up [12:11]	<SachaMagne>	dang WP doesn't like me [12:12]	<DigiDaz>	I may have a chance now then [12:12]	-->|	wright_plaza_9 (n=OpenSimB@71.6.208.87) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:12]	 	nebadon: what was the fail? [12:12]	 	hang on [12:12]	 	i'll stay here in the nosebleed irc section [12:12]	 	ah, it's not important. I was wondering if it was mono or something internal to OpenSim [12:13]	 	if the latter then I can look at the logs [12:13]	 	i got it [12:13]	 	1 second [12:14]	-->|	whump (n=whump@nat.800westelcamino.lindenlab.com) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:14]	 	pastebin givin me hard time [12:14]	 	hehe [12:14]	<Blaksmith>	crashed [12:14]	 	http://pastebin.com/m6c8e97ef [12:14]	 	yea the sim crashed [12:14]	 	Out of memory, huh [12:15]	 	yep [12:15]	 	all day long [12:15]	 	lol [12:15]	 	all the servers [12:15]	-->|	babbage (n=babbage@nat.ani.lindenlab.com) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:15]	 	thats my #1 crash [12:15]	<Blaksmith>	I'm just going to lurk this meeting ... RL work is being a pest .. [12:15]	 	90% of all my crashes are OOM [12:15]	 	windows and linux [12:15]	<Ter_afk>	out of memory.. [12:15] <Wright Plaza> Latif Khalifa has arrived [12:15] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has arrived [12:15] <Wright Plaza> Homer Horwitz has arrived [12:15] <Wright Plaza> Sunisa Tachikawa has arrived [12:15] <Wright Plaza> Jenniver Quandry has arrived [12:15] <Wright Plaza> tx Oh has arrived [12:16] <Wright Plaza> Darren Vayandar has arrived [12:16] <Wright Plaza> Blaksmith Rubble has arrived [12:16] <Wright Plaza> tx Oh has arrived [12:16]	 	do we seem to be leaking memory? [12:16]	<HomerH>	Eh, I did not arrive? [12:16]	 	yes [12:16]	 	bad [12:16]	<HomerH>	I'm not even in... [12:16] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has arrived [12:16]	 	only on trafficed regions though [12:16]	 	ah, ghosts [12:16] <Wright Plaza> Homer Horwitz has left [12:16] <Wright Plaza> BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102 has arrived [12:16] <Wright Plaza> Homer Horwitz has arrived [12:16] <tx Oh>: do we stay down now? [12:17] <Wright Plaza> sacha Magne has arrived [12:17] <Wright Plaza> Gaspar.Roux http://67.202.16.49:8002 has arrived [12:17]	-->|	ZhaEwry (n=Zha_Ewry@nat/ibm/x-9445dac871c64b6f) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:17] <Wright Plaza> Justin Clark-Casey has arrived [12:17] <Wright Plaza> Latif Khalifa has arrived [12:17] <Wright Plaza> Nebadon Izumi has arrived [12:18] <tx Oh>: re [12:18] <Justin Clark-Casey>: ah, deja vu time [12:18] <Homer Horwitz>: Homer Horwitz waves to all [12:18] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: Hi [12:18] <Nebadon Izumi>: ding ding ding *Round 2* [12:18] <Justin Clark-Casey>: perhaps we should consider implementing an agent limit [12:18] <Homer Horwitz>: lol [12:18] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has left [12:18] <Wright Plaza> Sunisa Tachikawa has left [12:18] <tx Oh>: bluewall, how do you interface ogp to osgrid? [12:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: just need to enable it on your region i think [12:19] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: hhe [12:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: then you can HG in [12:19] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: It's is hypergrid enabled [12:19] <Wright Plaza> Darren Vayandar has arrived [12:19] <tx Oh>: ah, ok. hypergrid :-) [12:20] <Nebadon Izumi>: well I think we have Lindens in the IRC now [12:20] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: OGP/Hypergrid [12:20] <Nebadon Izumi>: so we can probably continue via the relay [12:20] <Nebadon Izumi>: or we can wait for more to return too [12:20] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has arrived [12:20]	 	test 1 2 1 2 test [12:20] <Justin Clark-Casey>: we-ell, chances are we will crash again, so we should probablyu just continue [12:20] <Nebadon Izumi>: hehe [12:20] <tx Oh>: well i talked about my experience before the crash. i rezed a bunch of gras tufts and now the region is more or less black painted on the map. [12:20] <Wright Plaza> Ideia Boa has arrived [12:21]	<Ter_afk>	fyi, anything said here will be relayed in world, and obviously, everything that they say will be copied here as well [12:21] <Nebadon Izumi>: k just making sure [12:21] <Justin Clark-Casey>: did we lose Charles? [12:22]	-->|	lkalif (n=ek@kiki.streamgrid.net) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:22] <Nebadon Izumi>: we might have [12:22] <Justin Clark-Casey>: okay, let's start then [12:22] <Nebadon Izumi>: it probabloy doesnt look crashed on his screen [12:22] <Nebadon Izumi>: he might not even know yet [12:22] <Justin Clark-Casey>: was there any kind of agenda for today? [12:22] <Wright Plaza> Ideia Boa has left [12:22] <Wright Plaza> Jack Fletcher has arrived [12:22]	<Blaksmith>	I'm still here, but in IRC.. [12:22]	-->|	jvq (n=jenniver@129.123.254.132) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:22] <Nebadon Izumi>: Nothing really, i saw babbage was here [12:22] <Nebadon Izumi>: and perhaps is still in IRC [12:23] <Homer Horwitz>: Info from Lindens, first? [12:23] <Nebadon Izumi>: he and whump might have something [12:23] <Nebadon Izumi>: if they are still available [12:23] <Justin Clark-Casey>: okay, let's do that. Babbage, whump - any topic you want to bring up? [12:23] <Wright Plaza> Charles Krinke has arrived [12:23] <Nebadon Izumi>: cool heres charles [12:23] <Homer Horwitz>: Ah, there he is... [12:23] <Wright Plaza> Ideia Boa has arrived [12:23] <Wright Plaza> Blaksmith Rubble has left [12:23] <Nebadon Izumi>: we might have lost whump and babbage [12:23]	 	not specifically [12:23]	-->|	kinoc (i=kinoc@static-66-14-82-104.bdsl.verizon.net) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:23] <Homer Horwitz>: re-hi :) [12:23] <Wright Plaza> Jenniver Quandry has left [12:23] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has left [12:23] <Nebadon Izumi>: oh there he is [12:24]	 	will be in shortly [12:24] <Wright Plaza> Jenniver Quandry has arrived [12:24] <Nebadon Izumi>: does anyone have any questions ? [12:24] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has arrived [12:24] <Justin Clark-Casey>: okay, well in the meantime - yeah - does anybody else have anything they want to talk about? [12:24] <tx Oh>: i rezed a bunch of gras tufts and now the region is more or less black painted on the map. [12:24]	-->|	PocoLoco (n=george@74-129-83-59.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:24] <tx Oh>: should that go to mantis? [12:24] <Justin Clark-Casey>: tx: Yes [12:24] <Nebadon Izumi>: It sounds like there have been some good improvements the last few days with the svn and teleporting and HG etc.. [12:25] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has left [12:25] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has left [12:25] <Nebadon Izumi>: anyone have comments on that? [12:25] <Charles Krinke>: client crashed. [12:25] <Justin Clark-Casey>: does anybody experience a proiblem where they close their browser and they get the 'region has shutdown' message? [12:25] <Nebadon Izumi>: whole server crashed charles [12:25] <Wright Plaza> Fly Man has arrived [12:25] <Homer Horwitz>: Charles: Sim crashed first, I guess. [12:25] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I seem to be getting this all the time now on Linux with the 1.20 client [12:25] <Charles Krinke>: ah [12:25] <Darren Vayandar>: I know there is an odd issue with child agents but overall, much better [12:25]	<Blaksmith>	yes, teleporting is MUCH faster. [12:25] <Wright Plaza> Monk Zymurgy has arrived [12:25]	 	I just shut down LBsa plaza to prevent OOM [12:26]	 	give us a few 100mb more [12:26] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has arrived [12:26] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: the OGP/Hypergrid teleports work now too [12:26]	<Ter_afk>	justincc, I've noticed it. [12:26] <Gaspar.Roux http://67.202.16.49:8002>: TP seems more stable overall. HG TPs less so, but they got me here ;-) [12:26] <Nebadon Izumi>: great thats good news [12:26] <tx Oh>: my problem in the last time was the region freeze thing which i think is a dead lock problem (freezed regions, freezed console, no crash) [12:26] <Darren Vayandar>: I have experienced more frequent crashes whilst doing nothing though, just chatting maybe without moving, viewer crashes that is [12:26] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: Whump was teh first Hyper-Gridnaut last night [12:26] <Justin Clark-Casey>: okay, not just me then - I should mention it to Diva [12:26]	-->|	dahlia (n=dahliaT@ip72-220-234-248.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:26] <Nebadon Izumi>: ive heard lots of good reports [12:26] <Fly Man>: Evening all [12:26] <Wright Plaza> robert omegamu has arrived [12:27] <Nebadon Izumi>: hey there Fly man, welcome to the party :) [12:27] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, region freezes are an ongoing difficult to tiagnose issues [12:27] <Monk Zymurgy>: hi everyone [12:27] <Justin Clark-Casey>: good, I'm glad we're looking a bit better [12:27] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: Hi Fly Man [12:27]	* Blaksmith	agrees with Darren ... more crashes while sitting doing nothing but chatting [12:27]	<SachaMagne>	speaking of gridnauts, what are the news about inventory ? [12:27] <Nebadon Izumi>: hello monk [12:27] <Wright Plaza> Dahlia Trimble has arrived [12:27] <Fly Man>: Did I miss anything importatn ? [12:27] <Justin Clark-Casey>: nah [12:27] <Fly Man>: k [12:27] <Charles Krinke>: What are the things that the developers need from the testers this week? [12:27] <Homer Horwitz>: If someone finds a way to (relatively quickly and) reliably freeze a region, that would help a lot with diagnosis. [12:27] <tx Oh>: fly man, i heared you are the man for email event coding :-) [12:27] <Nebadon Izumi>: you were the only smart one [12:28] <Nebadon Izumi>: we all had to log in twice [12:28] <Nebadon Izumi>: Nebadon Izumi P [12:28] <Fly Man>: tx Oh, you heard right and wrong ;) [12:28] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has left [12:28] <Fly Man>: Uhm Charles, I would like to ask the developers to have a look at the coding for the texturing [12:28] <Justin Clark-Casey>: nebadon: did you used to see Out Of Memory errors or is this a recent occurence? [12:28] <Fly Man>: the progressive texture patch [12:29] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has left [12:29] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has arrived [12:29] <tx Oh>: homer, i pasted a looong backtrace of a frozen region [12:29] <Nebadon Izumi>: no [12:29] <Nebadon Izumi>: its long time occurance [12:29] <Dahlia Trimble>: LAAAAAAAAAGGGGG [12:29] <Justin Clark-Casey>: well, I would say it's not so much developers at this stage as up to users to test it [12:29] <Nebadon Izumi>: its plagued both plaza servers for a bit [12:29] <Homer Horwitz>: tx: Yep, but as long as I can't reproduce it here, it's difficult to diagnose/fix. [12:29]	-->|	Fly-Man- (n=Fly-Man-@f230035.upc-f.chello.nl) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:29] <Justin Clark-Casey>: the progressive texture patch, that is [12:30] <Fly Man>: Also, Sdague did some work on the Mantis [12:30] <Justin Clark-Casey>: if there are enough reports of it being fine for people then I think that we can risk it again [12:30] <Charles Krinke>: What is missing to be able to make a 0.6.1 release this weekend? [12:30] <tx Oh>: homer: yes, i know.. [12:30] <Fly Man>: so I set some Mantises to release for 0.7.9 [12:30] <Fly Man>: 0.7.0* [12:30] <Homer Horwitz>: Why 0.7.0? [12:30] <Fly Man>: As they're big changes [12:30] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has left [12:30] <Fly Man>: like the User Profile working with an backend [12:30] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has arrived [12:31] <Fly Man>: So Picks, Classifieds, Notes can be persistant [12:31] <Wright Plaza> Alicia Braun has arrived [12:31] <Wright Plaza> robert omegamu has left [12:31] <Wright Plaza> robert omegamu has left [12:31] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Charles: well, if you're happy that things have stabilized then I don't see why not, in principle [12:31] <Fly Man>: and also the "cleanup" from Adam isn't ready yet [12:31] <sacha Magne>: nice [12:31]	<Ter_afk>	Charles, suggest working on resolving some memory issues [12:31] <Wright Plaza> Jenniver Quandry has left [12:32] <Fly Man>: Well, did anyone get a chance to get a profiler working for Linux / MacOS ? [12:32] <Wright Plaza> Patnad Babii has arrived [12:32] <Homer Horwitz>: And a stable version only makes sense if you can use it a bit longer than 2 hours. If we want to break compatibility again, I suggest doing it *before* we tag... [12:32] <Wright Plaza> Neopallium Granville has arrived [12:32] <Charles Krinke>: My "happiness" is dependent on Nebadon, daTwitch and others "smiling" about reliability (or at least not frowning too much) [12:32]	<Ter_afk>	my LOLCAT says HAZ LEAKS? YESSAH! [12:32] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Homer: yeah, our releases don't really denote much stability [12:32] <Homer Horwitz>: Ter: Your cat has leaks??? [12:32] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter_afk: well +1 on the encouragement.... [12:33] <Fly Man>: +1 for the sim crossing patch [12:33] <Dahlia Trimble>: Dahlia Trimble offers charles some prozac [12:33] <Charles Krinke>: How can we get to where our releases denote *more* stability? [12:33] <Fly Man>: +1 for the stability patches that were inserted [12:33] <Homer Horwitz>: Wait a year or two, I guess. [12:33] <Wright Plaza> robert omegamu has arrived [12:33] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I agree with Homer [12:33] <Charles Krinke>: :P [12:34] <Justin Clark-Casey>: what stability patches? [12:34] <Fly Man>: but what will this release be ? [12:34] <Fly Man>: 0.6.1 ? [12:34]	<Ter_afk>	well, out of memory issues produce a wide range of erronious results [12:34] <Fly Man>: or like we said 0.6.2 ? [12:34]	<Ter_afk>	freezing.. thread crashes.. [12:34] <Homer Horwitz>: Ter: Right. [12:34] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter:afk: yeah... [12:34] <Wright Plaza> Jack Fletcher has left [12:34] <Justin Clark-Casey>: perhaps we need more defensive programming to see if we can avoid them in the first place [12:35] <Fly Man>: I think we need to find more memory holes [12:35]	 	this might be a good time to bring up the fact that 50-75% of cpu time in opensim during meetings is spent in a single function [12:35] <sacha Magne>: we need to improve our defence for sure [12:35] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Fly_Man: the trouble with the profiliers is that OpenSim seems to quickly overwhelm them all [12:35] <Fly Man>: and plumb those shut [12:35]	 	sorry, running later [12:35] <Homer Horwitz>: jhurliman: The update-look? [12:35] <Homer Horwitz>: *loop [12:35]	 	justincc, we haven't had any troubles profiling [12:35] <Fly Man>: Welcome Whump :) [12:35]	 	UnderCount(0 [12:35]	<Ter_afk>	nah, it's in the throttles [12:35] <sacha Magne>: ignoring bogus clients like SI is nota good way to process imo [12:35] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: what are you using? [12:36] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter_afk: In theory the queues are being wiped now on client logout.... [12:36]	<Ter_afk>	.. that's not what I'm talking about though :) [12:36] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter_afk: okay, so what are you talking about? :) [12:37]	 	justin: windows provides tons of debugging and profiling taps for .NET apps. if your .NET app is running, it can be profiled using the system hooks [12:37]	<Ter_afk>	jhurliman has pointed to the fact that 75% of the CPU usage in OpenSim is the throttle processing. [12:37] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: oh okay [12:37] <Wright Plaza> Alicia Braun has left [12:37] <Homer Horwitz>: Sadly, I'm on Linux here... [12:37]	-->|	MonkZy (n=chatzill@cpc1-swin9-0-0-cust131.brhm.cable.ntl.com) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:37] <Fly Man>: yeah, most of the developers are on Linux as well [12:38] <Fly Man>: I work with Windows and Linux [12:38] <Justin Clark-Casey>: LLPacketQueue.ProcessThrottle ? [12:38]	 	specifically, one function in the throttle processing that does floating point division and branching roughly 15 times per packet. then the fact that every packet is serialized three times before sending it over the wire increases memory usage and strain on the garbage collector [12:38] <Charles Krinke>: half and half, Fly-Man. [12:38] <Wright Plaza> Mic Bowman has arrived [12:38] <Dahlia Trimble>: I use both [12:38] <Fly Man>: and the profiler that I used was the one that had the 30 days trail [12:38] <Homer Horwitz>: On the other hand, I hadn't have a look at what Mono provides. It has some profilers, too. [12:38]	 	okay, I'll be present in a sec [12:38]	 	justin: ANTS profile from red gate is the best though [12:38] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, it's the mono profilers that seem to get overwhelmed [12:38]	 	hmm think i froze [12:38] <Fly Man>: jhurliman, jupz :) [12:38]	* Ter_afk	has jetBrains DotTrace :) [12:38] <Wright Plaza> Peter Stephens has arrived [12:38] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: yeah, unfortunately I don't have any windows boxes - and I have a bad discinlination to pay for software [12:38] <Fly Man>: That's the one I tested [12:39] <Wright Plaza> Alicia Braun has arrived [12:39]	-->|	Bud_Parnall (n=chatzill@adsl-66-138-99-204.dsl.ltrkar.swbell.net) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:39] <Zha Ewry>: I've had zero luck on the mono profiles on anything serious [12:39] <Wright Plaza> Sherry Arnaz has arrived [12:39] <Homer Horwitz>: Too bad. [12:39] <Fly Man>: Justin, I already found out that you can get the profiler for free [12:39] <Fly Man>: if you can prove that you're a open source project [12:39] <Fly Man>: that's what I already told Charles :) [12:39] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I am an opensource project! [12:39] <Wright Plaza> Monk Zymurgy has left [12:39] <Justin Clark-Casey>: anybody can change me, with the appropriate surgical implements [12:39] <tx Oh>: me too [12:39]	 	justincc: you're not alone, i don't think anyone working on opensim has profiled it before. the results were alarming [12:39] <Wright Plaza> Sherry Arnaz has left [12:40] <Justin Clark-Casey>: and I can reproduce myself for free, sort of [12:40] <Fly Man>: *rofl* @ Justin [12:40] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: any suggestions for improvement? [12:40] <Wright Plaza> Mic Bowman has left [12:40]	 	jhurliman: on the plus side, there are many low hanging fruits optimization wise [12:40] <Dahlia Trimble>: jhurliman, could you publish some of your profiling results to the mailing list? [12:41] <Justin Clark-Casey>: +1 on Dahlia's suggestion [12:41]	 	justincc: do things one time instead of 15 or three times wherever possible, and avoid floating point division in critical loops to start [12:41] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: where are we doing things 3 to 15 times? [12:41] <Justin Clark-Casey>: you mean the fact that the packetpool is currently off/non functional? [12:41] <Dahlia Trimble>: Dahlia Trimble never uses floating point division in any critical loops :) [12:41]	 	dahlia: wasn't my profiling results, came from a coworker. i can look into what would be required to publish it though [12:42] <Dahlia Trimble>: ty :) [12:42]	<Ter_afk>	justincc, it has nothing to do with the packet pool. :) [12:42]	 	justincc: every packet is serialized twice in the packet queuing and the results are immediately discarded, to get the length of a packet [12:42] <Dahlia Trimble>: just a summary would be useful [12:42]	 	then a third time to actually send it [12:42] <Homer Horwitz>: Ouch. [12:43]	 	sorry, I'm here now [12:43]	 	welcome back whump [12:43] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: okay, sounds like we should look to cut that out [12:43]	 	.UnderCount is called many many times in the lifecycle of packet prioritization, and is not a function you want to call in a critical loop [12:43] <Wright Plaza> Alicia Braun has left [12:43] <BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102>: Hi Whump [12:43] <Dahlia Trimble>: hiya whump :) [12:43]	 	Did you have anything in particular you wanted to say about OGP this week Whump ? [12:43] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: UnderCount isn't directly in OpenSim code, right? [12:43] <Wright Plaza> Nebadon Izumi has left [12:44]	<Ter_afk>	undercount is probably the function used to check if the packet exceeds the user's throttle [12:44]	 	the packet pool looks like a bit of a premature optimization. it's trying to conserve memory allocations when adjacent code is calling Packet.ToBytes multiple times and throwing away the results [12:44]	 	nebadon: I don't have any OGP updates, other than what BlueWall reported back upthread. [12:44]	<Ter_afk>	if that's the case, then it would be very damaging to just remove it. [12:44]	 	justincc: it is [12:44] <Fly Man>: Whump, how's the Mantis ? [12:44] <Fly Man>: Still no results ? [12:44] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Alright - let's go to town on Packet.ToBytes then [12:44] <Wright Plaza> Nebadon Izumi has arrived [12:44]	 	I built top of trunk and we found that an OGP agent could Hypergrid jump. [12:45]	 	justincc: what? [12:45]	<Ter_afk>	I'd suggest optimizing it. instead of removing it anyway. [12:45]	 	But we need to look at logs on our side to understand what all is going on the AD side. [12:45]	 	for profiling, you could try dTrace in Solaris or OS X [12:45] <Justin Clark-Casey>: er, eliminate them where we can. Take a baseball bat to its ass [12:45] <Dahlia Trimble>: whump. cool :) [12:45] <Zha Ewry>: No reason for it not to work, on the Opensim side [12:45]	 	Fly Man, I need to see if we are still getting the child agent issue. [12:45] <Zha Ewry>: I [12:45] <Fly Man>: Ok [12:45] <Zha Ewry>: am reallyu curious what the Liinden AD thinks has happened, tho [12:45] <Fly Man>: Wb Neb :) [12:46] <Zha Ewry>: and what would happen if you OGP teleported BACK [12:46] <Nebadon Izumi>: thanks :) [12:46]	 	justincc: i was pointing out that 50-75% of the cycles are spent in UnderCount, and additionally Packet.ToBytes is called three times per outgoing packet. none of that leads to the conclusion that you need to optimize Packet.ToBytes [12:46]	 	Zha, I was able to OGP teleport back from OpenSim [12:46] <Zha Ewry>: after a hypergrid tp? [12:46]	 	so the silver thread wasn't broken [12:46]	 	the amusing part was that calls to Packet.ToBytes don't even show up as a blip on the profiling radar in comparison to everything else [12:46] <Justin Clark-Casey>: jhurliman: okay, I grepped for UnderCount but don't see it in the OpenSim tree [12:46]	 	Zha, yes [12:46] <Zha Ewry>: Zha Ewry blinks [12:46] <Zha Ewry>: Nice [12:46]	 	maybe that's the wrong name [12:47]	 	UnderSomething [12:47]	<Ter_afk>	check UnderThrottles? [12:47]	 	grrrrr logged :( [12:47]	 	yea that just happend to me too dahlia [12:47]	 	Fly Man, I'm going to see if the child agent issue is there now. [12:47] <Justin Clark-Casey>: UnderLimit perhaps? [12:47]	 	i was able to reconnect [12:47] <Fly Man>: whu [12:47] <Fly Man>: okay :) [12:47]	<Ter_afk>	n. It's called UnderLimibt [12:47]	<Ter_afk>	it's in LLPacketThrottle.cs [12:48] <Fly Man>: I was hoping Adam would be here as well this meeting [12:48] <Fly Man>: but I don't think he's here, right ? [12:48] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea i think adam is in Australia at the moment [12:48] <Nebadon Izumi>: hes on a differnt planet [12:48] <Nebadon Izumi>: Nebadon Izumi P [12:48] <Nebadon Izumi>: : [12:48] <Fly Man>: Darn ... [12:48] <Nebadon Izumi>: Nebadon Izumi p [12:48] <Nebadon Izumi>: wierd [12:48] <Justin Clark-Casey>: alright, yeah, I see some bad stuff [12:48] <Justin Clark-Casey>: two ToBytes in a row.... heh [12:49]	<Ter_afk>	the code for UnderLimit is like the following : [12:49] <Nebadon Izumi>: the tounge sticking out face doesnt come through [12:49] <Nebadon Izumi>: i truncates teh : [12:49] <Nebadon Izumi>: in the viewer [12:49]	<Ter_afk>	public bool UnderLimit [12:49] <Homer Horwitz>: Nope, you got mu-style active :) [12:49]	<Ter_afk>	return (m_currentBitsSent <(m_currentThrottle/m_throttleTimeDivisor)); [12:49] <Wright Plaza> Dahlia Trimble has left [12:50] <Fly Man>: Question: Why did we set the Throttle ? [12:50] <Fly Man>: as it's discarded in the client [12:50] <Wright Plaza> Alicia Braun has arrived [12:50] <Fly Man>: If I set my speed to 1500 or 150 [12:50]	<Ter_afk>	Fly-man: it's not discarded by the client [12:50] <Fly Man>: the textures load exactly the same [12:50] <Nebadon Izumi>: to many opensims were driving into telepohone poles ? [12:50] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, that division really doesn't need to be done every time [12:50] <Justin Clark-Casey>: so that's pretty dumb [12:50]	<Ter_afk>	Fly-man: the reason it works like that is your client says, 'hey this setting isn't working', and fixes it for you [12:50] <Fly Man>: ter [12:51] <Fly Man>: I see :) [12:51] <Justin Clark-Casey>: The Linden client appears to always send it's own throttle on startup [12:51] <Wright Plaza> Ela Kajira has arrived [12:51] <Justin Clark-Casey>: throttles don't reflect reality by default [12:51]	<Ter_afk>	The linden client adjusts the throttles based on the situation [12:51]	<Blaksmith>	without the throttling, it slammed my net connect, and it wouldn't let me do anything till the agen rezzed in fully [12:51]	<Blaksmith>	at least with the throttling, it allows me to do something while someone is rezzing in [12:51] <Nebadon Izumi>: Justin [12:51] <Wright Plaza> Eljah Barbosa has arrived [12:51] <Nebadon Izumi>: looka the wp console [12:51] <Justin Clark-Casey>: well, ideally the Linden client would allow much higher throttles [12:52] <Nebadon Izumi>: its frozen [12:52] <Nebadon Izumi>: not responding anymore to me atleast [12:52] <Nebadon Izumi>: screen is but that panel isnt [12:52] <Wright Plaza> Alicia Braun has left [12:52] <Eljah Barbosa>: greetings to you [12:52]	<Ter_afk>	justincc: the linden client takes what you set.. but, if it finds that it's receiving a lot of packet loss, it will throttle down [12:52] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, uh [12:52] <Wright Plaza> Ela Kajira has left [12:52] <Nebadon Izumi>: lol [12:52] <Fly Man>: So the Linden Client "shifts" itself [12:53] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea very odd [12:53] <Nebadon Izumi>: this conversation shouldnt be happening [12:53] <Fly Man>: even if I set it high, it will fall back once too many drops [12:53] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter_afk: I don't know - when I was in the area it always appeared to send up an initial throttle set [12:53]	<Ter_afk>	Flyman: that's correct [12:53] <Fly Man>: ter [12:53] <Justin Clark-Casey>: the trouble is the throttle changes don't reflect reliaty since we still use a x2 multiplier on all throettle settings by default [12:53] <Fly Man>: Odd behaviour so too speak [12:53] <Fly Man>: We don't limit it on the server [12:54] <Fly Man>: so the client "decides" to have it high [12:54] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I'm a little paranoid about changing the client code without unit test support - but I may just go and remove the worst stuff that jhurliman and ter_afk pointed out unless someone beats me to it [12:54] <Fly Man>: Justin, go ahead :) [12:54]	<Ter_afk>	justincc: I've always advocated listening to what the client asks for throttles. It makes that judgement based on the network situation that it sees. [12:54] <Wright Plaza> Dahlia Trimble has arrived [12:54] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I'm in the middle of something else at the moment which has put me in a bad mood since I've spent far too long trying to get it tow ork :) [12:54] <Fly Man>: If it fixes, please try :) [12:54]	<Saijanai>	AW Groupies meeting this morning: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2008-12-16 [12:55] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter_afk: I agree - we could go to x1 by default but that might not result in good performance without progressive textures.... what do you think? [12:55] <Fly Man>: Justin, that's why the progressive texture patch call ;) [12:55] <Fly Man>: We had it in, but then it went out again [12:55] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, and hence my call for people to test it! :) [12:55] <Fly Man>: because of a problem [12:55] <Nebadon Izumi>: ah ok [12:55] <Nebadon Izumi>: i can do that [12:55] <Nebadon Izumi>: but i need to get my server back [12:55] <Nebadon Izumi>: just waiting [12:55] <Nebadon Izumi>: i have been distracted and will be for next 24 hours [12:55]	<Ter_afk>	well, I wouldn't suggest modifying the throttles that the client asks for arbitrarily in general for any reason. [12:55] <Nebadon Izumi>: do my best to test though [12:56] <Justin Clark-Casey>: nebadon: thanks [12:56] <Homer Horwitz>: Still a problem with borked texture-data. [12:56] <Wright Plaza> sacha Magne has left [12:56]	<Blaksmith>	I've tried X1 at one time, and not all of the landscape nor prims showed up [12:56] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter_afk: sure - that would be the ideal [12:56]	<Blaksmith>	and that was locally [12:56] <Justin Clark-Casey>: but I'm afraid that if we go to x1 then the performance on texture download will be shit [12:56] <Justin Clark-Casey>: excuse my french [12:56] <Fly Man>: You're excused [12:56]	<Ter_afk>	if there's a good, 'network condition' reason why, then fine.. though. x2 arbitrarily is blegh [12:56] <Dahlia Trimble>: it's already bad [12:57] <Charles Krinke>: So, where do we go from here? [12:57] <Zha Ewry>: Merde, JCC, if you wish to nbe excused for French ;-) [12:57] <Justin Clark-Casey>: if we can do the progressive texture download then we can push the mutplier to x1 [12:57] <Fly Man>: Charles, I think the fixing of those doubles can be done [12:57] <Fly Man>: then release a stable ? [12:57]	<SachaMagne>	je ne releverai pas ;) [12:57] <Justin Clark-Casey>: or if someone else wants to try switching it then that's fine too - it's just that I would personally wait [12:58] <Fly Man>: if the trunk is stable enough [12:58] <Justin Clark-Casey>: the multipler used to be x8 ;) [12:58] <Fly Man>: then afterwards try to insert the progressive patch ? [12:58]	<--|	jvq has left #osgrid-wp ("Leaving") [12:58]	<Ter_afk>	who sets these multipliers? [12:58]	<Ter_afk>	srsy [12:58] <Fly Man>: I did ;) [12:58] <Fly Man>: I set it to 5 once [12:58] <Charles Krinke>: Does anyone notice difference in behavior between the official client 1.21.6, the hippo client and the RC? Do all three behave the same with OpenSim? [12:58] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Fly Man: perhaps you could help texting the progressive texture patch [12:58] <Fly Man>: then when the OpenSim.ini.example went to 2 [12:58] <Fly Man>: I changed to 2 [12:58] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Ter_afk: It used to be x8 because we were mistakenly interpreting bit numbers as bytes [12:58] <Zha Ewry>: The RC is about as stable with OpenSim ad LindneGrid [12:59] <Fly Man>: Justin, sure :) [12:59]	<SachaMagne>	charles not really [12:59]	-->|	jvq (n=jenniver@129.123.254.132) has joined #osgrid-wp [12:59]	<SachaMagne>	they all behaved diffrently [12:59] <Justin Clark-Casey>: ter_afk: so I introduced a client multiplier setting and switched it down to x2 pending getting the progressive texture stuff sorted out [12:59] <Dahlia Trimble>: charles, I notice texture downloading problems with recent linux RC clients [12:59] <Charles Krinke>: IF they all behave differently, then we should concentrate on the official 1.21.6 client and not chase ourselves around in circles. [12:59] <Dahlia Trimble>: on opensim [12:59] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I accept that it's not ideal at all [12:59]	<Blaksmith>	I'm not showing any difference between SL and OS using 1.22.3 [13:00]	<SachaMagne>	Hippo 4 seems to be picky about textures loading [13:00] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Charles: these problems are not client related [13:00] <Charles Krinke>: k [13:00] <Zha Ewry>: I am pretty sure the client pipes are pretty similar in that set [13:00]	|<--	babbage has left freenode ("Lost terminal") [13:00] <Dahlia Trimble>: for me, the windows clients dont seem to have the same texture downloading problems [13:01] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I don't seem to be noticing texture download issues under linux [13:01] <tx Oh>: at least texture upload works well now, please don't change that :-) [13:01] <Dahlia Trimble>: its not consistent [13:01] <Zha Ewry>: The little experimanting I've seen, shows client texture doenload is insanely sensative to the graphics drivers [13:01] <Wright Plaza> Jack Fletcher has arrived [13:01]	<SachaMagne>	some textures won't never be downloaded in hopi [13:01] <Fly Man>: I have the latest nVidia [13:01] <Fly Man>: and some texture won't load that well [13:02] <Fly Man>: but that's the same on SL [13:02] <Fly Man>: so not a big change there [13:02]	<Blaksmith>	my gf is running vista on a new 9400 GT card, and she has been experiencing a lot of crashing using 1.22.3 [13:02]	<Blaksmith>	both in SL and OS [13:03] <Fly Man>: BlakSmith, 9500GT, no issues when using 1.22.3 [13:03]	<Saijanai>	Zero LInden Office HOurs with Infinity Linden at 1PM SLT: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Grasmere/165/113/27 [13:03] <Fly Man>: if you disable the Palletized Textures [13:03] <tx Oh>: i have 9800gts+ with no problems [13:03] <Charles Krinke>: Well, our official client is 1.21.6 and changes to OpenSim should be judged against that version. [13:03] <Dahlia Trimble>: the Saijanai speaketh [13:03]	<Blaksmith>	will have to look into it Flyman [13:04] <Fly Man>: but Charles [13:04] <Fly Man>: What must be done before a release can be cleared ? [13:04]	<Saijanai>	Hey Dahlia, check out first part of transcript, talking about plugin/scripting for Imprudence [13:04] <Justin Clark-Casey>: I don't think that we want an official client except possibly for temporary testing purposes [13:04] <Fly Man>: because there are some issues that are open [13:04] <Dahlia Trimble>: kk [13:04] <Wright Plaza> Krisbfunk Nocturnal has arrived [13:04] <Justin Clark-Casey>: otherwise we shut out all the other clients out there (IdealistViewer, etc) [13:04] <Dahlia Trimble>: :( [13:04] <Zha Ewry>: You really don't want to go there [13:05]	 	Fly Man: still seeing the agent in "show users" and in viewer after they OGP teleport away. [13:05] <Zha Ewry>: especially with OGP, and other clients [13:05] <Charles Krinke>: We have previously agreed to use the official SL client as our standard for OpenSim and let all the other clients match it. Are we backing off from that now? [13:05] <Fly Man>: Whump, are you on trunk now ? [13:05]	 	Fly Man, yes [13:05] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Well, this is merely a discussion, I don't set policy :) [13:06]	 	but I have not updated since last night around 6pm SlT [13:06]	 	er, SLT [13:06] <Dahlia Trimble>: we've discussed the possibility of alternative protocol for idealist [13:06] <Nebadon Izumi>: well i think if we are truly to remain "Open" we should be testing and reporting issues with any and all viewers and clients [13:06] <Justin Clark-Casey>: but if we always match the SL client then we'll never get round to having an independent standard [13:06] <Nebadon Izumi>: not only to use but the lindens [13:06] <Fly Man>: Whump, have a chat with Diva [13:06] <Charles Krinke>: We had set the policy months ago that the official SL client, *whatever* version it currently is, is the gold standard for OpenSim. [13:06] <Nebadon Izumi>: use=us [13:06] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Dahlia: oh rly? With what result? [13:06] <Fly Man>: maybe she has an idea [13:06]	 	Okay. I'll follow up with her this afternoon. [13:06]	 	I need to duck away. [13:06] <Dahlia Trimble>: no results, only considering the possibility [13:06] <Zha Ewry>: You're sort of currently stuck in terms of adoption [13:07]	<--|	whump has left #osgrid-wp [13:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: but we should be very specific when fileing these reports [13:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: be sure to include exactly what viewer you tried [13:07] <Zha Ewry>: If you wakl *too* far away from the current viewer [13:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: maybe we need a selection box on mantis [13:07] <Zha Ewry>: a lot of peopl ewon't bother to pop over [13:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: like phyusics [13:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: for all the viewers? [13:07] <Justin Clark-Casey>: Dahlia: it would be quite cool since it would serve as an impetus to broaden OpenSim. I often think that we want another protocol [13:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: highlight which viewers you tried [13:07] <Nebadon Izumi>: have box for revision #'s [13:07] <Wright Plaza> Eljah Barbosa has left [13:07] <Homer Horwitz>: Have to hop out, too. [13:07] <Dahlia Trimble>: it would, but we dont really have a good idea where to start though [13:07] <Wright Plaza> Eljah Barbosa has arrived [13:08] <Homer Horwitz>: Homer Horwitz waves and poofs. [13:08] <Wright Plaza> Homer Horwitz has left [13:08] <Nebadon Izumi>: great meeting guys [13:08] <Zha Ewry>: Ack. I need to run to my noon SLT. [13:08] <Nebadon Izumi>: even with the crash, was a good recovery [13:08] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, I need to preserve what little sanity I have today [13:08] <Wright Plaza> BlueWall.Slade_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102 has left [13:08] <Dahlia Trimble>: lol [13:08] <Charles Krinke>: I agree we need somthing along those lines, Nebadon. It just feels like we may be chasing ghosts with too many viewer variations and too little structure in our testing. [13:08] <Dahlia Trimble>: is WP on hypergrid? [13:09] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea but we are by all means "open" [13:09] <Nebadon Izumi>: limiting use would go against that creto [13:09] <Justin Clark-Casey>: it's a little like Apache saying that you can only use Netscape Navigator 4.3 [13:09] <Charles Krinke>: No, its more like making it work with one browser and not change it for a bunch of slightly incompatible browsers back and forth. [13:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: but i agree we need to do something about reporting with your issue how you exactly created your issue [13:10] <Wright Plaza> Eljah Barbosa has left [13:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: i think mantis reports are missing that part about viewer [13:10] <Wright Plaza> Zha Ewry has left [13:10] <Justin Clark-Casey>: well, what we really need is to evolve a standard that browsers can implement to [13:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: people arent volunteering it so lets make it required [13:10] <Fly Man>: Welll, crash reports are being made now [13:10] <Wright Plaza> Eljah Barbosa has arrived [13:10] <Fly Man>: so let them add those [13:10] <Justin Clark-Casey>: which we're not going to get to if we only ever chase the Linden viewer, where changes are made without any forward consuyltation [13:10] <Fly Man>: like LL does with the Jira's [13:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea im less familiar with Jira [13:10]	* ZhaEwry	keeps listening on IRC [13:10] <Nebadon Izumi>: i'll have too have a look over there [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: been some time since i looked at it in detail [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: mostly just reading comments [13:11] <Justin Clark-Casey>: and not even with any post documentation [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: hehe [13:11] <Charles Krinke>: Ok. Good meeting. I have to go also. See you folks back on IRC. [13:11] <Dahlia Trimble>: would be easier to develop new protocols once all the linden protocol is isolated to modules [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: Later charles, talk soon [13:11] <Wright Plaza> Charles Krinke has left [13:11] <Fly Man>: Well, that's why I was hoping Adam would be here [13:11] <Justin Clark-Casey>: yeah, I don't see much impetus to that until another protocol comes along though [13:11] <Justin Clark-Casey>: that would really force the issue [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: yea, Adams been elusive [13:11] <Fly Man>: as he's the one that's "wrecking" some parts [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: i havent had much luck reaching him [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: but [13:11] <Nebadon Izumi>: hang on [13:11] <Dahlia Trimble>: lol chicken and egg problem ;) [13:12] <Fly Man>: and putting them back in a good way [13:12] <Justin Clark-Casey>: well, it's not just LLClientView, it's everything else thrreaded throughout the rest of OpenSim [13:12] <Justin Clark-Casey>: LLClientView is reallly a pretty small part of that [13:12] <Wright Plaza> tx Oh has left [13:12] <Fly Man>: Yup, I agreee [13:12] <Fly Man>: but all things start small ;) [13:12] <Justin Clark-Casey>: ah banal homilies signal the end of the meeting [13:13] <Dahlia Trimble>: Dahlia Trimble poofs... bye all, thanks :) [13:13] <Nebadon Izumi>: no hes not on [13:13] <Nebadon Izumi>: sometimes adam is guest75230 [13:13] <Wright Plaza> Dahlia Trimble has left [13:13] <Nebadon Izumi>: or some odd name like that [13:13] <Nebadon Izumi>: hes not there at tall though [13:13] <Fly Man>: K [13:14] <Justin Clark-Casey>: bye folks [13:14] <Gaspar.Roux http://67.202.16.49:8002>: Thanks all, very informative. l8tr! [13:14] <Fly Man>: But I would like to suggest something as well [13:14] <Nebadon Izumi>: see ya Justin thanks man [13:14] <Wright Plaza> Justin Clark-Casey has left [13:14] <Nebadon Izumi>: by everyone [13:14] <Nebadon Izumi>: thanks for attending [13:14] <Fly Man>: Can someone have a look if it's posible to have the patches that are on Mantises [13:14] <Fly Man>: somewhere to grab them [13:14] <Patnad Babii>: sorry i missed most of the meeting :/ [13:14] <Fly Man>: because Windows doesn't like Linux that much ;) [13:14] <Patnad Babii>: is there a way to see or experiment with openID [13:14] <Nebadon Izumi>: cant you filter by patch attached? [13:14] <Fly Man>: No clue, I hope so ? [13:15] <Nebadon Izumi>: try expanding filters in advanced view on mantis [13:15] <Ideia Boa>: good meeting, bye all [13:15] <Fly Man>: PatNad, you can always grab the patch from the Mantis [13:15] <Nebadon Izumi>: theres tons of filters flyman [13:15] <Nebadon Izumi>: almost too many [13:15] <Fly Man>: there's a start with it [13:15] <Wright Plaza> Ideia Boa has left [13:15] <Patnad Babii>: ok and what i could do with the patch ? [13:16] <Fly Man>: Padna, that's a Q you'd ask the creator of the patch [13:16] <Fly Man>: Jhurliman [13:16] <Wright Plaza> Jack Fletcher has left [13:16] <Wright Plaza> Eljah Barbosa has left [13:16] <Patnad Babii>: ahah okai [13:16]	<--|	jvq has left #osgrid-wp ("Leaving") [13:17] <Darren Vayandar>: hey, Neb, can you clear me that spot Rockville, please [13:17]	<--|	Fly-Man- has left #osgrid-wp [13:17] <Wright Plaza> Gaspar.Roux http://67.202.16.49:8002 has left [13:17] <Wright Plaza> Latif Khalifa has left [13:18] <Wright Plaza> Peter Stephens has left [13:18] <Fly Man>: K, till later [13:18] <Wright Plaza> Fly Man has left [13:18] <Krisbfunk Nocturnal>: neb, where did you say your region was? [13:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: OKC TOwer [13:19] <Krisbfunk Nocturnal>: tks! [13:19] : seya neb darren have a good evening :-) [13:19]	<--|	jhurliman has left #osgrid-wp ("Leaving") [13:19] <Wright Plaza> robert omegamu has left [13:19] <Krisbfunk Nocturnal>: see ya [13:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: has all kinds of sculpty up around 160m [13:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: in the center cylinder area [13:19] <Darren Vayandar>: see ya [13:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: later guys [13:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: thanks for oming [13:19] <Nebadon Izumi>: coming