Chat log from the meeting on 2010-05-18



[09:42] Lani Global is Online [09:47] Warin Cascabel is Online [09:49] Nebadon Izumi: hello [09:49] Warin Cascabel: Howdy [09:49] Warin Cascabel: Looks like nobody's fixed the bug that lets you log into two regions at once. But I wonder if that could hose inventory? [09:49] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [09:50] Nebadon Izumi: i think one of the 2 sims has to be in a wierd state for that to be possible [09:50] Warin Cascabel: Well, I'm logged into here and OI - wonder which one's in a weird state? :) [09:50] Nebadon Izumi: heh good question [09:50]  Nebadon Izumi: im guessing OI [09:50]  Nebadon Izumi: it sounds like something is whacked out there [09:50]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe we should move it onto the windows box [09:50]  Nebadon Izumi: since its giving you so much trouble [09:51]  Warin Cascabel: I suppose it couldn't hurt - and it might also clear up whether certain other texture issues are definitely 64-bit Linux issues. [09:51]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [09:51]  Nebadon Izumi: odd part is thius region is the same box [09:51]  Nebadon Izumi: i never have issues with textures reverting here [09:51]  Nebadon Izumi: but im probably not textureing on the same scale you are either [09:51]  Richardus Raymaker is Online [09:51]  Warin Cascabel: Probably not - nearly every surface in OI is a unique texture [09:52]  Nebadon Izumi: though i noticed the Smoke texture for my fire isnt loading anymore for me [09:52]  Nebadon Izumi: not quite sure why [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: i was going to fix my particle scripts anyway [09:52] Warin Cascabel: Particle overload usually causes that [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: so the texture has to be included [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: ive had enough with UUIDs [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: if i make it so the texture is read by name and must be in the prim [09:52] Nebadon Izumi: then i can move them to other grids easier [09:52] Warin Cascabel: Somebody's probably got a particle script that's spewing particles as fast as possible, which robs other generators of their particles. [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: no i see the partciles [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: its just a white box [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: should be a smoke textture [09:53] Warin Cascabel: Oh, hm. [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya i dont know what happeend [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: but iim going to make new particles for it that wont break [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol [09:53] Warin Cascabel: Yeah - I have issues in OI where certain textures won't load unless I clear cache and relog. [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya its been this way for weeks [09:53] Nebadon Izumi: several cache clearings [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: also in other regions i see same thing [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: the asset must be corropted or erased or something [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno [09:54] Warin Cascabel: Could be. [09:54] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Jullie [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: its not a hard fix really [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: ive been wanting to redo it anyway so its more transportable to other grids [09:54] Jullie Farrior: Hello Warin, Nebadon [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: now i have 2 reasons [09:54] Warin Cascabel: Heh :) [09:54]  Nebadon Izumi: i hear 3 is the lucky # [09:54]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [09:54]  Warin Cascabel: Hello, Ethan [09:55]  Ethan McConaught: Hello. [09:55]  Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone [09:55]  Nebadon Izumi: meeting is starting in a bit [09:55]  Ethan McConaught: Hello's all around. :) [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: were a little early still [09:55] Ethan McConaught: Yeah, we figured we'd get here early, too. [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: nice [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: ive been recapturing alot of the demoscene stuff [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: using kkapture [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: posting them on archive.org [09:58] Warin Cascabel: Come on in, have a seat. [09:58] Entering god mode, level 255 [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: oh nice did it recover [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: i was lagged up for a moment there [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=nebadon2025 [09:59] Tesira Luco is Offline [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: some of the stuff i posted up warin [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: archive.org is pretty cool they let you store up to 10gb file [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: no limit on how much you store [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: streams into OSG much better than youtube did [10:00] Warin Cascabel: Awesome. [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: hello Charles [10:00] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Charles, Brent [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: Hello Brent [10:00] Charles Krinke: Morning. How is it going? [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: and everyone just getting here :) [10:00]  Nebadon Izumi: going good [10:00]  Brent Seidel: Hello everyone [10:01]  Charles Krinke: Hi, Brent, Warin, all [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hows thing going with you Charles? [10:02]  Charles Krinke: Well, trying to get a company back into operation. Same old story, lots of work and no money. [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: you get your primary server back online? [10:02]  Armin Weatherwax: Hi :) [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello Armin [10:03] Charles Krinke: I am having fun with some windows domain servers, and yes, I got a new backup to the PDC. Learing about FSMO, ntdsutil and others *stuff*. [10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:03] Brent Seidel: Hello [10:03] Charles Krinke: If I can get this company funded, I will have some spare servers and rack space in San Diego [10:04] Justin Clark-Casey: wow - you've turned entrpreneur, charles? [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i just ordered a new cpu for one of my local servers from ebay [10:04] Richardus Raymaker is Online [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: made a bid on a 3.2ghz p4 prescott cpu with 1mb cache will max my server out [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i made bid for 40$ they accepted [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:05] Charles Krinke: Well, I worked for "Pulse-Link" a while back. They crashed with the economy and I am now the "sole" software guy trying to get it back in operation with the pres [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: already shipped out [10:05] Penny Lane: CK here two weeks running? Sign of the apocalypse!!! [10:05] Warin Cascabel: Heh [10:05] Charles Krinke: Well, I am trying. Some would say I am very trying [10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: nice [10:05] Penny Lane: Haha [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi penny, neb, justin warin [10:05] Penny Lane: Hi Rich [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: why a P4 ? [10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: ah its a local server i have [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: has a no HT 2.6ghz cpu now [10:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi akira [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: replacing it with one that has HT and 4 times the cache [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: its a dev box [10:06] Akira Sonoda: hi rich and everybody [10:06] Jacek Antonelli: Hi all [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: i asked on irc, but, do it here to. is there some option to move remote admin to seperate port. that would make things more secure. [10:07] Hiro Protagonist is Online [10:07] Armin Weatherwax: Hi Jacek :) [10:07]  Richardus Raymaker: lol, hippo 0.6.3 is not so good. it dont start. missing libs [10:07]  Warin Cascabel: Hello, richardus, everyone [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: im using 0.6.3 now Richardus [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: havent had any issues with it [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: did you uninstall the old hippo 1st? [10:08]  Hiro Protagonist: Charles, good to see you sir :) [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: i would if you didnt, clear all the old out [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: re-install 0.6.3 fresh [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: uninstall under linux ? no just installed it in new directory [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i only tried it once in linux [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: imprudence works much betetr. [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats good atleast one of them does [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: as long line 1442 dont bite [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: nobody know if you can move remote admin port ? [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: its in OpenSim.ini [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: look at the example in [Network] [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: anyway this is not a support meeting this a dev meeting, so does anyone have anything developerish to talk about? [10:11] Richardus Raymaker: never found it...i dont mean the http_listner_port. if i close that one i close everything i guess [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: I started testing 0.7 a bit more lately [10:11] Hiro Protagonist: well I'd like to thank JustinCC for getting some very much needed features and fixes into the current release [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya that was good stuff for sure, 0.6.9 is by far the best we have seen yet [10:12] Jacek Antonelli: \o/ [10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: it was time we had one :-) [10:12]  Hiro Protagonist: :-) [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: ive really just started testing 0.7 a bit more extensively the last few days [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: its a bit bumpy so far [10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: in what repsect? [10:13] Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: also been testing jhurlimans branch too [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: well one thing i notice is that avatar movement has become lagged [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: you sorta skip a bit at times [10:13] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online [10:13] Hiro Protagonist: I confess I've been inadvertently testing it - the only real problem I've seen from it so far is pretty long-standing [10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: especially when flying [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: ive been testing jhurlimans branch, its also present there as well [10:13] Hiro Protagonist: it's the TP/crossing issue I sent out on the dev list y/d [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: i also see it on the ScienceSim beta grid [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: so its not related to Simian or Robust [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: its something in the simulators themselves [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: how odd [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i dont notice it here on 0.6.9 [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: im probably pretty picky though, things like that tend to bother me [10:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't think anything would have changed in that area, but obviously it has [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: most people are probably used to dealing with lag [10:14] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: but for me this is a new lag im not used to seeing [10:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: but continuous and persistent lag would be very noticeable, right? [10:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:14]  Hiro Protagonist: well it's good we have someone around who pays attention to that :) [10:14] Dahlia Trimble: /jaber join [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: others noticed it too on my test grids [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: I must admit, I haven't seen it myself on standalone, but I've not updated to head for a while [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: and ive noticed it on Danger grid since we set it up [10:15]  Nebadon Izumi: which has always been 0.7 [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: oh right, so been around for quite a while [10:15] Snoopy Pfeffer is Offline [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: at 1st i figured it was a configuration issue or something [10:15] Strawberry Fride: I notice that 0.6.6 is smoother than 0.6.9 for avatar movement too, but I'll sacrifice smoothness in favour of stability if it's there - we're gonna load up 0.6.9 on a beta grid soon for tests and I really hope to move RG this week if it flies [10:15] Richardus Raymaker: thats a nasty bug. lag [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya its mostly flying [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: if all you do is walk you might not ever notice it [10:15]  Nebadon Izumi: just write it off as net lag [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: ho hum [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: or someone logging in or logging out [10:16] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: but i am noticing it for extended periods on private grids [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: where im the only user [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: needs more testing [10:16] Richardus Raymaker: no scripts ? [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: but soemthing to look out for [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: oh lots of scripts in my regions [10:16] Fu Barr: hello all :) [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: 15k prims 1000+ scripts [10:16]  Hiro Protagonist: needs moar cowbell XD [10:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: man, that woul dbe a bitch of a bug too [10:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi fu [10:16]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, then it can be so much [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ya well things like this are kind of expected after a big version change [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: when people really start hacking it up [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: 0.7 is young [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: it should be broken [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: as more people begin testing it we can smooth it out [10:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure I would agree - it really shouldn't be broken but it can be [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya thats what i mean [10:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: it would be far easier to catch these bugs as they occur rather than spending countless hours after the fact [10:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh well [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i dont want it broken for long either [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: but its not to be unexpected either [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: true. still a pita [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: testing sorta of fell behind with 0.7 because of the massive break [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: there was months virtually no one tested it [10:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that was the big disadantage with that [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: not on the scale we usually do anyway [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: but were getting closer to stepping into bigger testing with 0.7 now [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: with both simian and robust [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: so i think things will start improving pretty quick [10:19] Repudiator quann is Online [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: cool - very glad you guys are on the case [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is the movement lag is some kind of packet adjustment [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: data being dropped or out of order [10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that would be my guess too - some change in the protocol [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise stability is good [10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe a jhurliman area [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: alot of my issues are optimization [10:20] Snoopy Pfeffer is Offline [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: less stability [10:20] Dahlia Trimble: I see it more in Nebadon's regions on Danger grid, not so much on my own [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: still some nasties about though [10:20] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Post_Fixes) 009b15c: 2010-05-15 02:08:07 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: i saw it on ScienceSim Beta grid as well [10:21] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online [10:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi all [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: hi snoopy [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: http://grid.beta.sciencesim.com [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: which is here if you wish to try [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how are you finding jhurliman's slimupdates branch? Seems better? [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia you know what it is [10:22]  Richardus Raymaker: hi snoopy [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: my sims have like 10 times more prims than yours do [10:22]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: probably scripts too [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: ScienceSim is the same way [10:23] Dahlia Trimble: could be [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: its crazy amount of prims out [10:23] Justin Clark-Casey: you guys do love your prims :) [10:23]  Dahlia Trimble: but even after they're all loaded [10:23]  Richardus Raymaker: dont challeng justin, nebadon :) [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: i think its the LOD [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: draw distance or something [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: when i shut a neighbor sim down it imrpoves a lot [10:23] Dahlia Trimble: thats all viewer side with opensim [10:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: you have viewer lag? [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: avatar movement mostly [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: like snappy movements [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: not rubberbanding per say, but slight jerkiness [10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: have you tried in near empty sims? [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: yes it is alot better [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: almost perfect on empty sims [10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: but persumably the same loaded sims are better on 0.6.9? [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya all these builds are from OSgrid [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: i do not experience it here [10:24] Dahlia Trimble: there was a lot of protocol tweaking between 0.6.6 and 0.6.9, the good part is you can have more avies in a region now :) [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: ya 0.6.9 is really great [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: the best yet [10:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, lots of optimizations [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: something changed in 0.7 a bit though [10:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: more also in 0.7 when that comes out - pity about this issue [10:25]  Dahlia Trimble: I think avatar motion was deprioritized a little to help with concurrency [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: ya hopefully we can get past it quick [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: that would explain it alot [10:25]  Hiro Protagonist: Dahlia, lurve teh boots :D [10:25]  Dahlia Trimble: hurli would probably know best [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: some people might find it acceptable [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: i personally do not [10:26]  Dahlia Trimble: heh :) [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: wonder if thats something we can make a tweakable setting [10:26] Richardus Raymaker: hicks are not good [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: or if it already is one [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: this way we can experiiment a bit [10:26] Richardus Raymaker: and for people from sl its not a good experience to [10:26]  Strawberry Fride: there are so many tweakables in the ini [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are [10:26] Strawberry Fride: could be some of those might change that behaviour :) [10:26]  Strawberry Fride: but who knows! it's like pot luck in there [10:26]  Hiro Protagonist: some really shouldnt be tweaked ;) [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya i'll look at that a bit later [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: thats for sure [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: im sure as time goes on i wont be the only one who notices it [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: it seemed to also get worse as more avatars entered the sim [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: so thats not good either [10:27] Hiro Protagonist: def sounds like an optimization issue [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: i think it is for sure [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: i think with optimization alot of bugs will just kinda of get washed away [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: things that look like bugs in the code but are really just unoptimized things jamming up other processes [10:28] Hiro Protagonist: I wonder if the TP/crossing bug I reported y/d is related [10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: is there a new tp bug in the newest versions? [10:28] Hiro Protagonist: it seems way easier to repro on 0.7 [10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that one I meant :) [10:29]  Hiro Protagonist: actually it's an old one [10:29]  Hiro Protagonist: it just got a lot more visibility in 0.7 [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: i have heard a couple people saying they have been having issues teleporting to their regions [10:29]  Snoopy Pfeffer: can lost UDP packets cause that? [10:29]  Richardus Raymaker is Online [10:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: but most are not veteran opensim users [10:29]  Hiro Protagonist: at least some are [10:29]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I know the ones experiencing that run many regions on one computer [10:29]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:29]  Hiro Protagonist: myself and Christy Lock for instance [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i myself have not had any issues [10:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: could be timing related. Diva is the best expert on that stuff [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: but i tend to just relog alot anyway [10:30] Snoopy Pfeffer: do you also run many regions on one server Hiro? [10:30] Hiro Protagonist: I have a dozen or so servers [10:30] Hiro Protagonist: most run four instances or less [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: ive also had people tell me they can not log into Lbsa plaza [10:30] Snoopy Pfeffer: I know Christy runs a crazy amount of regions on her computers hehe [10:30] Richardus Raymaker: experiece what ? i just crashed [10:30] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh ok [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: but they log in elsewhere and they can teleport to Lbsa fine [10:30] Hiro Protagonist: no more than four regions per instance and most dont run that many [10:30] Snoopy Pfeffer: then it must be something else [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: i think some people have had that same issue here at these meetings [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: maybe you guys should increase mono threads [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: to like 500 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: we did that here [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: 250 or 500 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: it might help [10:31] Hiro Protagonist: this is all on windows to my best knowlege [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: try tweaking up MySQL too [10:31] Hiro Protagonist: (all mine are) [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: give it more threads as well [10:31] Snoopy Pfeffer: do you see high cpu load when that happens? [10:31] Richardus Raymaker: most times after crash your fiorst login freeze at login. other try i always get in [10:31] Hiro Protagonist: nope, load stays quite low when it occurs [10:31] Snoopy Pfeffer: yep Christy is also on windows I think [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: increase mysql connections too [10:31] Hiro Protagonist: my servers are pretty dramatically overprovisioned and undersold by design [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: anyone needs help with tweaking mono or mysql see me after the meeting or at your leisure [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: i'll see if i can help [10:32] Richardus Raymaker: in my case sometimes a region start to consume plenty of cpu [10:32] Hiro Protagonist: thanks Neb [10:32] Hiro Protagonist: One thing I would like to try is mysql keepalives [10:32] Snoopy Pfeffer: Rich that might be caused by a bad number of threads - too high or too low [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: ive gotten accustomet to allow mysql 1000+ connections [10:33] Hiro Protagonist: I generally set up for 250 [10:33] Richardus Raymaker: i think mine is still set to 75 by default. snoopy [10:33] Hiro Protagonist: perhaps its just not enough [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: alot of high intensity applications recommend amping that number up [10:33]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I use numbers between 80 and 120 [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: for both mono and mysql [10:33] Snoopy Pfeffer: above and below causes problems [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: your using mono ? [10:33] Richardus Raymaker: and then wright must have the problem to snoopy. it happens everywhere [10:33] Snoopy Pfeffer: I use quadcores [10:33] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: we are running mono 2.6.4 here [10:33] Richardus Raymaker: i use mono 0.6.4 [10:34] Hiro Protagonist: same here Snoopy - Q9300/Q9400 generally [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: i compiled it myself on this machine [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: 2.7 here [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: 2.7 is probably not a good idea [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: i would give 2.6.4 a shot [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: it runs very good [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is very stable [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: I run it since many weeks [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: cool ya its probably not going to run any worse [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: r151702 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: but you run the risk of them experiementing in the unstable svn [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes true [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: I always first test it locally [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: im not against using 2.7 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: but in production areas [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: running experimental is risking [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: true, but every mono version did improve very much [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: its a toss up with mono [10:36] Hiro Protagonist: some of them (2.4 for instance) were very bad just before the actual release [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: its sad people still need to use 2.4 [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: some of my renters have serious problems with texture rezzing [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: some textures never rez completely [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: tell them to crank their viewer bandwidth down [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: to 250 [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: lower is probably better when that happens [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: but that seems to be only a problem on 64 bit regions [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: this region is 64 bit [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: when you see that guessing bitrate message [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: that is just a warning [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: anyway it is ok? [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: might that cause these error messages?? [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: its not rreally an error [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: its a warning [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: saying its making guesses [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: i think it would be good if opensim tels a viwewr whats the best bandwidth for that region (before teleport) and give a warning if its set to high. but more a fauture item [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: which are fine [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: the difference is it might take a bit more bandwidth, but its not much more [10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [10:38]  Fu Barr wonders if he should try 2.7.x and opensim on the mac... maybe it'll compile... [10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: well they use textures for business presentations [10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: and it makes a very bad impression if they dont rez [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya i would say have them check their timer situations [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: script timers [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: try to reduce them as much as possible, and lower viewer bandwidth [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: those things will improve texture loading in my experiences [10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: and they use special tools with many textures [10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [10:39]  Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks [10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: is it not possible to get rid of that working? [10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: that guessing it does? [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: switch to HTTP served textures [10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: on 32 bit systems I dont see that [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: then we dont have to decode anymore [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: its coming [10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: how do I do that? [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: you cant yet [10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: right now its reliant on UDP [10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: when? [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: UDP sucks basiclly [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe [10:40] Edie Stewart is Online [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have a date, but i know its in the works, its where we are heading [10:40] Richardus Raymaker: lol nebadon,. first hold cvarrot nd then say you cant eat it.. [10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: is that implemented in trunk already? [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, I thought http was just the transport mechanism and all the decode stuff would remain the same [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: sort i think [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: apparantly not [10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: I also thought that Justin [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: it has something to do with streaming justincc [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: the reason we decode [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: if we sent over HTTP there is no need to stream them [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: delivery is much faster [10:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: isnt it a bug in the jpeg2000 library we use? [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, that's what jhurliman said? [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i think so [10:41]  Richardus Raymaker: its like a wevbpage. thats good news [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: he and jradford have spoken about it before [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: certainly if delivery is faster that would reduce the need to send progresive quality textures [10:41] Key Gruin is Online [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i wouldnt say im quoting them exactly [10:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: well I urgently need a solution [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: but i think thats what they are saying [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [10:41]  Strawberry Fride: UDP just fires and forgets, hence I guess the decode is like a parity check on top of udp... which is kinda what TCP is there for [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: well i think having them reduce viewer bandwidht might help [10:42] Strawberry Fride: making wild guesses [10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [10:42]  Nebadon Izumi: especially if these users are long distance to the servers [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: maybe tweak up your flotsamcache.ini settings a bit [10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: well it looks like a little bug having to do with integer sizes [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps cache is expiring to often [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: and creating more threads that you need [10:42] Penny Lane: Hopefully we'll be able to use Squid to cache the HTTP data too. [10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I think imprudence has support for http textures but the last I heard implementations on the viewer end are still buggy [10:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: maybe it is just one line of code that is wrong [10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: certainly in snowglobe [10:42] Hiro Protagonist: the user who seems most affected (actually the only user I have who is affected) is on the east coast - my servers are here in texas [10:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: interesting [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: ok well i suggest, that if your having these kinds of issues we get together with Jhurliman [10:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: bad network connections are bad for UDP [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: maybe Melanie, and Justin here maybe we can come up with a reason [10:43] Strawberry Fride: http traffic can be cached on a local router, UDP can't [10:43]  Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [10:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, especially with the lower reliability [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have answers only suggestions [10:43] Strawberry Fride: that would improve subsequent request speeds I guess [10:44] Hiro Protagonist: I'm available if anyone wants me to help - but taking the problem to the channel has been pretty disappointing - hence my sending it out on the mailing lists for a more asynch approach [10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: yeah, I would think so too [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya IRC is a crap shoot [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: gotta be persistant there [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: email you can be more lazy [10:44] Hiro Protagonist: but I'd really like to see that TP/crossing issue cleared up post-haste - as Snoopy says, 'I have an urgent need' ;) [10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:44]  Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [10:44] Hiro Protagonist: my problem is people get offended when I get persistent [10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: btw I dont experience that tp bug on my regions [10:44] Hiro Protagonist: so I figure best not to be persistent [10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: you gotta be persistent in the right way :D [10:45] Hiro Protagonist: yeah, there's where I run into trouble mate ;) [10:45]  Penny Lane: People getting offended means IRC is working as designed :P [10:45]  Hiro Protagonist: lol Penny!@ [10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: ya well its important not to come off to the devs as hey i have customers waiting [10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: thats the #1 way to get no response [10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: ha [10:45]  Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:45]  Hiro Protagonist: yeah, well, they kinda take that under assumption I think at this point [10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: just a hint is all [10:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's tricky [10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya [10:46]  Nebadon Izumi: well im here too, we need to trap adam too [10:46]  Snoopy Pfeffer: it is customer feedback that can be helpful to prioritize work ;) [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: then poke him with sticks until code falls out [10:46] Hiro Protagonist: ROFL [10:46] Hiro Protagonist: he's routinely biting off as much as he can chew in other realms [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya [10:46]  Richardus Raymaker: the are no 1 arm bandit. [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: well strictly speaking the devs do it to scratch their own itch. Not everyone has the same kind of customers [10:46] Strawberry Fride: :) [10:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: if they have customers at all :) [10:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [10:47]  Strawberry Fride: I keep my customers on older code, so hardly any of my questions will relate to an immediate issue :) my problem, not the devs, though if there's anything I can feed back I do [10:47]  Strawberry Fride: still need me a clone [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya i'll take 2 clones please [10:48] Hiro Protagonist: that's the reason I try not to run old code - I dont want to fix what they've already fixed, and no one is interested in helping with issues further back than the last release (understandably) [10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: the right balance between old and new is tricky :) [10:48]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [10:48]  Hiro Protagonist: yep, and shifty :) [10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, when you have limited resources there are hard choices [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: 0.7 is feild of land mines right now [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: 0.6.9 is really nice though [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: running on master git is going to be tricky i think for a while [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: until we can increase tester numbers [10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol I believe you Neb :) [10:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's not good though - it means we don't get people showing up bugs [10:49]  Strawberry Fride: on the upside, bugs in 0.6.9 may have had a lot more attention [10:49]  Strawberry Fride: than in previous releases [10:50]  Repudiator quann is Offline [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: yea i think we can probably still be moving foward while staying behind [10:50]  Strawberry Fride: more heavily tested, time taken to pause and firm it up [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: we have already sorta been doing that [10:50]  Strawberry Fride: seen a lot more replication in commits than previously [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: where is Reaction Grid right now? 0.6.8? [10:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think we're getting to the point with 0.6.9 where it's a bit more usable without having to constantly upgrade [10:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: I might end up backporting some more fixes to 0.6.9 because that's what I'm using myself for what I'm doing [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: nice ya the post-fixes branch is really been great for OSGrid [10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how are the group changes working out - I presume the latest osgrid.org distro includes them? [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: it does, as does this region [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: and all of our plazas [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: its been great [10:52] Strawberry Fride: we're still 0.6.6 - this week if I get this testing done we're moving [10:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: what has been changed? [10:52] Strawberry Fride: sick of 6.6 [10:52] Hiro Protagonist: I actually had several group notices waiting last time I logged in [10:52]  Nebadon Izumi: heh i bet strawberry, ya thats pretty far back [10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: I have a nasty feeling you'll se the same connetions problems though :) [10:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: :( [10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean [10:52] Richardus Raymaker: 0.6.6 wow. lots of thigs dont work nice on that version [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: we can now Group Chat, Send Group Notices [10:52] Strawberry Fride: yeah, but had one too many quirks on other releases [10:52] Strawberry Fride: I don't use the groups module and prolly still wont.... [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: the big change with groups, is that say you have a sim with 30,000 group owned prims [10:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: didnt that work anymore? [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: everytime someone logged in, it was pulling groups data for every prim [10:53] Key Gruin is Online [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: nothing was being cached [10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh oh yes [10:53] Hiro Protagonist: ouwich [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: so now 40,000 requests becomes 10 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: big improvment [10:53] Warin Cascabel: Nice. [10:53] Strawberry Fride: it's another third party system I'd have to admin, would rather have something I could use for more than just opensim - something in house has more chance of success there [10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ah, did that last groups stuff include the cache backport? [10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: so you saw more and more such requests causng problems? [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: it does Justin [10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: btw where is the limit for osgrid at the moment? [10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, that's pretty major [10:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: I see more and more ppl online [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: the sky? [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: limit? [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe [10:54] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [10:54] Penny Lane: Neb++ ... Just discovered that group chat works again !!!!! [10:54] Strawberry Fride: jcc - connections to messaging server? [10:54] Penny Lane: \o/ [10:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: what is in 4 weeks 500 ppl want to log in at the same time? [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: we had ~30 on lbsa plaza+the usual constant stream of logins and logouts for over 5 Hrs on sat morning [10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: yeah - I don't see any reason for that to have improved, unfortunately [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya Mcortez and I busted but getting those patches out [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: we just missed the 0.6.9 release [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: by mear minutes [10:54] Strawberry Fride: can anyone else confirm that is a prblem on that? [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: but still was worth the effort [10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: sorry, I couldn't include them since we were already on rc2 [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: mcortez did most of the work i just tested it [10:55]  Snoopy Pfeffer: are we ready for a rapid growth of the grid? [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: no worries, im just glad we can use it here at OSgrid [10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: might possibly do a 0.6.9.1 though sooner rather than later [10:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: it might happen! [10:55] Key Gruin is Offline [10:55] Strawberry Fride: :) [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: its hard to Say Snoopy, right now stats are looking good [10:55]  Hiro Protagonist: might? LOL [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: even at peaks times [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/stats [10:55]  Snoopy Pfeffer: ah good [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: http://assets.osgrid.org/stats [10:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: if you do seem the prolbem, might be interesting to know if there are loads of open connections about. That seemed to be Clive Gould's issue on the mailing lists [10:56]  Hiro Protagonist: OSGrid just hit 40K users last night FYI [10:56]  Nebadon Izumi: get a slight feel for the stats here [10:56]  Snoopy Pfeffer: cool [10:56]  Jacek Antonelli: woot [10:56]  Snoopy Pfeffer: we have more and more ppl online [10:56]  Strawberry Fride: will look out for it Justin - I had a plan B in mind in case it strikes but will see how it goes first [10:56] Robert Graf: congrats on 40,000 ; ) [10:56]  Strawberry Fride: woo, nice work OSGrid! [10:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, congrats :) [10:56] Hiro Protagonist: I want to say we're >4500 regions too [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: :) thanks guys [10:57]  Snoopy Pfeffer: it is important to be able to support a higher capacity quickly if needed [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: more near 7000 [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:57]  Richardus Raymaker: 40K and no party ? :) [10:57] Hiro Protagonist: What??! [10:57] Hiro Protagonist: 7k?? [10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: I mean users [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: 6681 regions [10:57] Hiro Protagonist: holy crap when did that happen [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:57] Penny Lane perks up at "party" [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno i blinked [10:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:57] Hiro Protagonist soaks up still more new news [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon how many from the 7K are dead region/.dont exists ? but still in system. [10:57] Hiro Protagonist: so, as I was saying...Might happen? heh [10:58] Key Gruin is Online [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say Richardus [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it's cool how region numbers fluctuate throughout the day :) [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: but in the past cleanup efforts [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: ive deleted literally 1000s of regions [10:58]  Hiro Protagonist: they all come right back, right away [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: and 90% were back in 24 hours or less [10:58]  Snoopy Pfeffer: wow [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: so 10-20% are down permanantly maybe [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: lots of crashes and people purposfully crashing them to not loose spots [10:59]  Richardus Raymaker: yes [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: its impossible to calculate it 100% right now [10:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: lol [10:59]  Strawberry Fride: lol [10:59]  Snoopy Pfeffer: what about future opensim version upgrades? if all upgrade at the same time, the asset server might get overloaded, because all local caches were empty [10:59] Hiro Protagonist: before you could finish calculating it would be inaccurate [10:59] Strawberry Fride: gotta fly ppl - call coming up - seeya later [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it snoopy [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: bye strawberry [10:59] Hiro Protagonist: bye Straw :) [10:59]  Richardus Raymaker: good load test snoopy :P [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: it might get slow, but we can probably fix that problem quickly [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: assets is one thing we have very good control over [10:59]  Snoopy Pfeffer: so we do not need rolling restarts yet? :) [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: hehe no, i think the idea of that will be unlikely anyway [11:00] Hiro Protagonist: lol we couldn't have a rolling restart if we wanted to [11:00]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe yes that is difficult [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: it would be real difficult to coordinate everyone doing it simultaneouslyt [11:00] Jacek Antonelli: It's always a rolling restart... just very slowly and inconsistently rolling. [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: that would be like some serious miracle work [11:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: maybe one day it is needed [11:00] Hiro Protagonist: no kidding [11:00] Penny Lane: Jeez, that's one feature of SL that we sure as hell don't need. [11:00] Hiro Protagonist: a coordination of herculean scale [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, you're permanently rolling :) [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: worst case your sim might crash during startup because asset service tooka momentary dump [11:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: so it might take a few restarts is all for a few hours [11:01]  Hiro Protagonist: or just didnt answer you at all for a bit [11:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: so upgrades can cause difficult times [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: not the end of the world [11:01]  Hiro Protagonist: they havent thus far [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: perhaps [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: but were far from that yet [11:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [11:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: but osgrid grows :) [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: our assets filter through nginx [11:01] Hiro Protagonist: I'd bet at least an order of magnitude in the number of regions away from that [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: sl also ran into problems some years ago [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: dave is very handy with big loads like that, as is most of the OSgrid team [11:02] Hiro Protagonist: SL has always had problems and most they still have [11:02] Hiro Protagonist: they are a group of people who no longer have anyone around who groks the technology they use [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: Hiro and Adam and Melanie all have lots of experience that dwarfs my own in linux land [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: im a student at best still [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [11:03]  Hiro Protagonist: a very talented student [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: what does the connected servers number mean in the stats? [11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: probably unique ips [11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: not physical hardware [11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: it could be alot more hardware actually [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:03]  Snoopy Pfeffer: maybe :) some run 40 regions on one server hehe [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: that implies that each ip serves an average of 5 regions [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya or have a router with 7 servers [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: that all have same internet IP [11:04]  Hiro Protagonist: yeah I've been known to run multiple instances on multiple boxen inside my pvt lan [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: we base our stats on internet ip alone [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ports is not evaluated on these stats [11:04] Hiro Protagonist: we should probably start picking up the port per address [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya we can maybe look into that [11:05] Hiro Protagonist: it'd give better stats fer sure [11:05] Warin Cascabel: How to differentiate between multiple instances on the same box, and multiple physical servers sharing the same external IP address? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i think adam made most of the mods there now [11:05] Hiro Protagonist: we dont at all Warin [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya right now we dont, even ports is not an accurate picture [11:05] Warin Cascabel: Right. Even if we counted ports, that still wouldn't tell. [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: its not a solution to that [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but it would paint a bigger picture [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, the group owner change shouldn't make much differnet to 0.6.9 actually since it wasn't in there [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: we could isolate how many instances there actually are [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: vs simulators [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: so caching there would not have anything like the same impact [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i mean simulators vs regions [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya these stats should be taken with a grain of salt [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: they are not 100% accurate [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: they are close assumptions [11:06] Hiro Protagonist: getting really ot where I am y'all - time for the siesta (sleep through the hot part of the day) [11:06] Warin Cascabel: The region knows the server hostname; does it transmit that back to the grid server? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the hardware stats are good [11:06] Hiro Protagonist: *hot [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: just not teh user stats etc.. [11:06] Hiro Protagonist: see y'all next time [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: they are gonna be skewed a bit [11:07] Charles Krinke: I think the important of the stats is they indicate *significat* usage of OpenSim, which is good for tsting nd dev [11:07] Warin Cascabel: Bye, Hiro [11:07] Hiro Protagonist waves [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: later man [11:07] Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:07] Warin Cascabel: True, Charles. [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: yes the stats are a great tachomeeter of usage [11:07] Charles Krinke: got to go pretend I am working [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: someone told me that the new Emerald viewer, currently alpha, will support opensim much better [11:07] Warin Cascabel: Bye, Charles [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I need to go too. Goodbye folks [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: did anybody try the new Emerald already? [11:07] Warin Cascabel: Bye, Justin [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Justin [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks guys, greay meeting, i love it when we run out of time [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Charles [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: that means the sim has not crashed [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:07] Warin Cascabel: Heh :) [11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey waves [11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya justin [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: emerald 1634 snoopy ? i use it not here [11:08]  Brent Seidel: Have a good one y'all. [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: im for imprudence [11:08]  Snoopy Pfeffer: Rich the alpha version on their google code web site [11:08]  Warin Cascabel: Bye, Brent [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: by Brent [11:08]  Snoopy Pfeffer: it is in development [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: bye brent [11:08]  Snoopy Pfeffer: alpha [11:09]  Fu Barr: i need to head back into RL too - take care y'all - nice hearing the news and updates again :) [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: nice, i have video. but no sound [11:09] Warin Cascabel: Bye, Fu. [11:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok see you all [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: see you Fu Barr, thanks for coming [11:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye for now :) [11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: by Fuba [11:09]  Warin Cascabel: I've gotta say, the expressions in the Imprudence edit panel have quickly become pretty indispensable to me. I test out other viewers, but always come back to Imprudence for building and texturing because of that. [11:10]  Jacek Antonelli: \o/ [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: ya im excited to see imprudence advance [11:10]  Jacek Antonelli: Mwahaha, we have you hooked now [11:10]  Snoopy Pfeffer is Offline [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: i still am hooked on hippo because it allows this grid to be the default grid for our users [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: with little explination [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: but i love imprudence too [11:10]  Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:10]  Warin Cascabel: Now if only there was a GUI for easily doing partial-image texturing on the prim faces. [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: our more adavnced users are using it in bigger numbers [11:11] Jacek Antonelli: osgrid is the default for Imprudence in 1.3 beta 4 [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: oh i didnt know that [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: no one tells me anything :P [11:11] Jacek Antonelli: lol [11:11] Warin Cascabel: It'd also be nice if the -grid switch worked in Imprudence, hint hint :) [11:11]  Jacek Antonelli: Warin: It should work in beta 4. If it doesn't, it's a bug [11:11]  Warin Cascabel: Sweet, I'll test that out today. [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: cool, i need to download the newest imprudence [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: im positive im a bit behind [11:12]  Warin Cascabel: I'm still on betas 2 and 3. [11:12]  Penny Lane: Aye, I use -grid a lot too, will upgrade Imp and test [11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: jacek, does that version have the fix i have in my imprudence. i run 64bit one [11:12]  Jacek Antonelli: beta 3 should also have -grid [11:12]  Warin Cascabel: Is there a mailing list for being notified when a new version comes out? [11:12]  Jacek Antonelli: Which fix is that, Richardus? [11:12]  Akira Sonoda: lol i tested imprudence beta 4 ... yay i can walk three steps now before it crashes !!! [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe nice [11:13] Akira Sonoda: Cool viewer was up for hours ... [11:13] Akira Sonoda: like it [11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm best ask armin for that jacek [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: oh maby.. [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i think my recordon osgrid with hippo was 48 hours without a crash [11:13] Jacek Antonelli: Armin uploaded new 64-bit linux builds last night, for 1.2.2 and 1.3 beta 4 [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: jacek, i use this one Imprudence-1.3.0-weekly-2010-05-15-Linux-x86_64 [11:13] Penny Lane: I'm on beta 2 on Linux, and it simply never crashes, even after week+ up. The only exception is on Neb's videos ... they're evil :P [11:13] Armin Weatherwax: Richardus: the fixed 64bit builds are now on the blog [11:13] Warin Cascabel: Heck, Imprudence is so stable for me that I'm actually logged into two different OSgrid regions. :P [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: 48 hours logged in straight without a crash that is [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: lol warin [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: only nast bug is if i cam to right i crash [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: her eon wright plaza. sometimes i crash on other place to. but further. super ! [11:15] Jacek Antonelli: Akira: Have you told us about your crash, e.g. in the forums? [11:16] UUID Speaker: Quinquifid Oddenfen: 4bd2adfa-2b97-4c21-6cfc-fff42835ec6b [11:16] UUID Speaker: Quinquifid Oddenfen: 4bd2adfa-2b97-4c21-6cfc-fff42835ec6b [11:16] Penny Lane: The Imprudence folks can't fix something they don't know about :-) [11:16]  Akira Sonoda: yeah all those viewers crashed today here ..... had to switch the LL viewer because this one can handle slow networks best ... right now i see pings of 253 msec but it was even worse tonight... [11:17]  Richardus Raymaker: if the could the would buy a lottery ticket to [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: is there a bug tracker for imprudence? [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: or just the forums? [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: Akira what is your viewer bandwidth set for? [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: try lowering it to 1/2 what it is maybe [11:18]  Jacek Antonelli: There is an issue tracker, if you know how to write a good bug report: http://redmine.imprudenceviewer.org [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: cool [11:18]  Warin Cascabel lowers his viewer bandwidth to 2147483647 [11:18]  Jacek Antonelli: For people that don't know how... um, nope, no issue tracker, just the forums. ;) [11:18] Akira Sonoda: 450 k [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: might try a bit lower [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: 250 - 350 [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: see if you have better experiences at differnt settings [11:19]  Richardus Raymaker: i use 500 some regions i need to lower it. but dont so much improvement. sometimes a bit less lag [11:19]  Akira Sonoda: okie .. thank you ! [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i think especially if your long disatance from the grid and simulators [11:20]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Post_Fixes) 009b15c: 2010-05-15 02:08:07 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: its better to turn the speeds down [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: rather than up [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: our settings dont really match LL's 100% [11:21]  Penny Lane: Mealea! Welcome back  [11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: jacek in the wright plaza freebee store is soem bug spray :) [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: so their version of 500k might not be the same as our version of 500k to the viewer [11:21] Jacek Antonelli: hehe [11:23] Akira Sonoda: yes usually the sims I'm on are located in europe, germany ... the pings are quite different there and therefore more bandwith does possibly not harm that much [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: around 100ms akira [11:24] Jacek Antonelli: I'm gonna head out, take care everyone [11:24] Jacek Antonelli: /wave [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ok Jacek, ya nice meeting everyone [11:24] Armin Weatherwax: take care :) [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: im going to go on a cheesburger hunt [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:24]  Jacek Antonelli: mmm [11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: hi armin [11:24]  Dorothea Lundquist: hello all!! [11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: bye jacek [11:24]  Warin Cascabel: Bye, Nebadon, Jacek [11:24]  Warin Cascabel: Hello, Dorothea [11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: hi doro [11:24]  Armin Weatherwax: Hi Richardus