Chat log from the meeting on 2021-01-26

 [10:57] Kayaker Magic: Welcome back Selby! [10:57] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone -- [10:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi all [10:57] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: recovering [10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Bill. wb, Selby. [11:00] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Jagga [11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ada [11:01] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Gavin, Kayaker, Bill. HEY SELBY welcome back [11:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone -- [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ubit, Jamie [11:02] Kayaker Magic: hehe, a tabby cat wearing a leopard skin skirt! [11:02] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:02] Ubit Umarov: hmmm [11:02] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody [11:02] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol ya, I'm working on a mesh Bakes on Mesh skirt for the critters. So far not working all that well [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie [11:03] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: but this is the Arcadia old Loli prehistoric outfit [11:03] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Jamie [11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Jamie [11:03] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Ubit [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: playing with the chairs Ubit :-)) [11:03] Ubit Umarov: Selby all good? [11:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Recovering [11:04] Ubit Umarov: good to see you back :) [11:05] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty [11:06] Ubit Umarov: so andrew, whats up ? [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jagga. [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Not much new this past week. Just one change related to mantis 8854. [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to see Selby and Bill with us again today. [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I still wonder what happened to Sheerah and hope they are ok. [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Who wants to kick things off today? [11:10] Ubit Umarov: yeah another c&p of code with bad effects that 8854 [11:11] Kayaker Magic: Bill, recall that I had trouble compiling with Gloebits a few weeks ago? I went and got your version and had the same problem. Then I tried doing a 'clean' build and everything works fine now. [11:11] Ubit Umarov: and ppl forget we didn't changed llPassTouches and passColisions to match new sl [11:11] Ubit Umarov: i fail to see much sense on the new sl one [11:12] Bill Blight: ahh, well may have just had some leftover files [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Did you try a clean build with the code you had before you got Bills version? [11:12] Ubit Umarov: ( also a fight with dbs and oars etc ) [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Pius [11:13] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Pius [11:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi Plus [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Pius [11:13] Pius Noel: hi all [11:13] Kayaker Magic: Not exactly, but I switched back to the official version and it also built OK after the clean. [11:14] Ubit Umarov: you do need those entries on inis kayaker [11:14] Ubit Umarov: if not using bill's version ( that just stripped those options out ) [11:14] Bill Blight: yeah, the auto version detection is kind of flakey at best, totally broken at worst [11:15] Kayaker Magic: I have the INIs on the running copies, my problem was I could not get anything to compile, running it was secondary! [11:16] Ubit Umarov: with forks etc it is just impossible to know the version [11:16] Bill Blight: you have the ini settings in there to tell it to use the new version? [11:16] Ubit Umarov: all change the version ids [11:16] Ubit Umarov: ( not to mention that dev stays on same for ages.. but changing a lot ) [11:17] Kayaker Magic: I'm talking about building OpenSim from a clone of master, with no changes, not a fork. [11:17] Bill Blight: regardless their version detection does not always work even on core [11:17] Ubit Umarov: yeah but even so, that version detection fails, acording to bill :) [11:17] Bill Blight: and it HAS to be told to use the new version of requests [11:17] Kayaker Magic: They have version detection at compile time? [11:18] Ubit Umarov: no kay... at runtime [11:18] Bill Blight: I forget who we went through this with a while back [11:18] Bill Blight: yes at runtime [11:18] Ubit Umarov: just add the ini entries [11:19] Bill Blight: GLBNewHTTPFlow = true   GLBNewLandPassFlow = true [11:22] Ubit Umarov: so and hwat other noews you bring andrew ? [11:22] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:23] Ubit Umarov: guess so many typos on a single line [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: No other news today. [11:23] Jagga Meredith: last week we discussed moving change region to the region help instead of general help, or possibly both. Looked at the code, not sure if both is possible. [11:23] Jagga Meredith: m_console.Commands.AddCommand("General", false, "change region",                                         "change region ",                                          "Change current console region",                                          ChangeSelectedRegion); [11:24] Jagga Meredith: does that just populate the help system or does it add a working command? [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, AFAICT, it would only need the string "General" changed to move it. [11:24] Ubit Umarov: i you not say "we discussed".... you spoke about it, i quietly ignored :p [11:24] Jagga Meredith: figured that, I was looking at the possiblity of both places [11:24] Ubit Umarov: i would not say.. [11:24] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it went to /dev/null [11:25] Jagga Meredith: heh [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:26] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:26] Jagga Meredith: so I take it "both" is not possible and "move" died on the table [11:27] Kayaker Magic: I have a question about how OARs are built: do assets in an OAR come from the asset server or from the local asset cache? [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be easy enough to test whether it can be in two places. Just copy the call and change the one string. [11:27] Jagga Meredith: I can dig it [11:28] Ubit Umarov: they came from where they are kayaker [11:29] Kayaker Magic: From the local region database? [11:29] Ubit Umarov: that is a total guess fail :p [11:29] Ubit Umarov: assets location is assets services, with cache doing.. cache [11:30] Ubit Umarov: exceptions are local assets, like dynamic textures [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose the cache can be inconsistent or invalidated at any time, so better pull from an authoritative source [11:31] Bill Blight: I have to bail early, RL calls, see you all next week .. [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TC Bill [11:31] Ubit Umarov: well fetch asset follows normal code path [11:32] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye, Bill [11:32] Pius Noel: bye Bill [11:32] Ubit Umarov: so.. checks cache, then grid service [11:32] Ubit Umarov: cya bill [11:32] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: later Bill [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: bye, Bill. [11:33] Kayaker Magic: How are mesh stored on the asset service? as XML or some internal format? [11:33] Ubit Umarov: sl mesh format [11:34] Kayaker Magic: LLM format! The binary format!? [11:34] Ubit Umarov: that is not the same you see on viewer for avatars [11:34] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: how is it different? [11:34] Ubit Umarov: still another binary format [11:34] Kayaker Magic: Why am I not surprised. [11:34] Ubit Umarov: no morphs for example :) [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:35] Ubit Umarov: has all LODs and physics on a single asset [11:35] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: are the morphs actually in the avatar llm files? [11:35] Ubit Umarov: unlike those things for avatars [11:35] Ubit Umarov: thats the only thing that uses morphs [11:35] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know, I'm asking where they;re stored [11:36] Ubit Umarov: ok those llm yes [11:36] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: in your opinion [11:36] Jagga Meredith: Will the code compile properly in visual studio - if not, recommended development environment? [11:36] Ubit Umarov: what code? [11:37] Jagga Meredith: opensim [11:37] Ubit Umarov: vs is .net native IDE [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I use Linux so I just compile from the command line using msbuild. [11:37] Kayaker Magic whispers: won't msbuild run from a DOS box on Wincows [11:37] Kayaker Magic: ? [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: It should but I haven't tried building OS under Windows in a very long time. [11:38] Jagga Meredith: ok will give it a whirl [11:38] Ubit Umarov: need to ask winsheeps ppl they may know about wincows [11:40] Ubit Umarov: well and that cmd looks like DOS but it is not DOS for ages [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Still works enough like DOS for the most part. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: and yes.. you can use msbuild on cmd line, if you can find it [11:42] Ubit Umarov: runprebuild.bat tries to find one and creates compile.bat [11:42] Ubit Umarov: guess in win normal is just to use VS [11:42] Ubit Umarov: at least i do :) [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a compile.bat script I used to use to compile under Windows that is dated December 2012. [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: It has the line -> C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\msbuild opensim.sln /property:Configuration=Debug [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: That should give a hint as to how to find msbuild in Windows. [11:44] Ubit Umarov: you need to runprebuild.bat [11:44] Ubit Umarov: nahh [11:44] Ubit Umarov: hit is to just get vs and use it [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:45] Ubit Umarov: other wise you will get to install compile tools anyways [11:45] Ubit Umarov: msbuild is not shiped with .net [11:45] Ubit Umarov: well a old .net4 version may [11:45] Ubit Umarov: buat that is outdated now [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't recall installing additional tools in Windows but that was about 8 years ago that I was last using it. IIRC, I needed to install the .NET framework files via some area of Windows Control Panel. [11:46] Ubit Umarov: framework is other thing [11:47] Ubit Umarov: own installers etc [11:47] Ubit Umarov: then tools are other thing.. [11:48] Ubit Umarov: and visual studio another things ( that does install also a lot of other things ) [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to the top of the hour. [11:48] Pius Noel: are you using VS 2019 or 2017? [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, how goes things with getting your machine up and running again? Any news on the viewer front? [11:48] Ubit Umarov: well compiling tools... always a pain [11:48] Ubit Umarov: i have both 2017 and 2019 [11:48] Ubit Umarov: but still use 2017 [11:49] Ubit Umarov: opensim does compile with 2019 [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The replacement machine is supposed to be delivered to the pickup point by 16.00 CET tomorrow [11:49] Pius Noel: I've seen but never tried [11:49] Ubit Umarov: i mean also compiles with... [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I also repartitioned the disk of an old MBP and installed all the dev tools + Win 10 on it so I have made some updates to the Windows version [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: MBP? [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Installing Xcode 12.4 right now, which is another hurdle to get the mac version to build at all [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac Book Pro [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: ah [11:50] Ubit Umarov: ahh got you box back? [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tomorrow [11:50] Ubit Umarov: ahh you hope .. ok [11:51] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to hear you should be back up and running at full speed soon. [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it should be just to plug in the old HD and it should be good to go [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but we shall see [11:51] Ubit Umarov: or not see ;) [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the HD is zapped, I can restore from backup [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: The old machine ran Windows? [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all Intel Macs usually do [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apple provides all the required drivers [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you do waht is called a bootcamp install [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Lets hope that WIndows can handle a MB swap if it was needed on that machine to get it back up and running again. [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I did not understand that? [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, bootcamp. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: win does handle mb swaps... just may asked you to pay a new lic [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: It's ok. I have never touched a Macintosh since the very first version Apple released. [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Windows is installed on a separate partition [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so from Windows perspective it is just another Intel machine [11:55] Ubit Umarov: yeah dual booting [11:55] Kayaker Magic: My GF bought a mac without asking my advice first. I told her "sorry I cannot help you with your computer problems any more" [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [11:55] Ubit Umarov: we do that for ages with windows/linux etc [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. When I did a major upgrade to my computer I lost the ability to run Windows without re-installing it as it wouldn't handle the MB swap. [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well i did ages ago.. don't like [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac has had dual boot since ... 1987 when Apple Unix was introduced [11:56] Ubit Umarov: i changed machines keeping the same windows on disk, several times [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it had a rather convoluted boot process to get Unix kickstarted from Mac OS [11:57] Ubit Umarov: win always found the hardware changes and fixed all [11:57] Ubit Umarov: that until ms decided to glue the lic to the MB and some hardware components [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Older versions of Windows couldn't tolerate certain hardware changes. [11:58] Ubit Umarov: i did update hardware just like that.. [11:58] Ubit Umarov: move the disk.. and boot it on the new harware :) [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I heard that Windows 10 has "fixed" that issue. I heard it can tolerate hardware changes. [11:58] Ubit Umarov: win has failsafe drivers dor everything [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Windows 10 might, but MS office... [11:59] Ubit Umarov: ms apps are like virus :p [11:59] Ubit Umarov: dammm office changed the entire os on install [11:59] Ubit Umarov: nonsense [12:00] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: win 10 can i've done it [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll probabably have to call MS Support, wanting to kill myself 30 minutes into the call [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [12:00] Ubit Umarov: well win10 has lics glued to hardware etc etc [12:01] Ubit Umarov: if you change the cpu, ou need to buy another lic, possible [12:01] Pius Noel: yes, it can depend on the lic [12:01] Ubit Umarov: damm marketing bs [12:01] Ubit Umarov: like those crippled home editions [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on the dev machine Windows runs in vmware virtual machines, so that should be OK; but the Office license is a Mac version and it will not like the HW change [12:02] Ubit Umarov: that did not used all the cpu cores, or all ram.. bahh [12:03] Ubit Umarov: ohh ms did forbid running their things on VMs, bc of that etc :) [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not any more [12:03] Pius Noel: not anymore? [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: vmware asks if I copied or moved it and just fixes it depending on the answer [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I use virtualbox to run Windows so I can run one program. [12:06] Pius Noel: I think server licensing is so complicated... I stopped people who asks giving advice. [12:06] Kayaker Magic: I have to clean my gutters (in RL) before the storm hits here in a few hours. [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: If I had Exsi installed then it probalby would be much more picky about lisencing [12:06] Kayaker Magic: Gota run! [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but Fusion is the same as Workstation and they recon you don't run prod on it [12:07] Pius Noel: bye Kayaker [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: The snow has been coming down here for quite some time. [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will snow tomorrow which could twart my machine delivery [12:08] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks for the conversation everybody was fun [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Just hope the snow doesn't start until after your delivery, Gavin. [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: yw, Jamie. Come back any time. [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is supposed to snow from the morning on, but with a language with about 420 words for snow, we can probalby handle it [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I hear ads on the radio about a nordic country with many words for snow. [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ... it has snowed here before [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is Norway [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we have the most words for snow of any country :-) [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I think it was a country with a name starting in S that had lots of words for snow but not as many as 420. [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Sweden does not have as many as we do [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I see enough snow where I am. I wouldn't want to live in a country that needs that many words for it. [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the weather in Sweden is less harsh as they have a very protected coastline in comparison [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I hope you get your delivery ok tomorrow. [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Norway has the full force of the North Atlantic or Barents [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we shall see [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at quarter past the hour. Any last minute OS related questions/comments for today? [12:12] Pius Noel: I whish you good luck [12:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go -- bye all [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Selby. tc. [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thx [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye Selby [12:13] Pius Noel: by Selby [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for another week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.