Chat log from the meeting on 2007-11-13

[11:02] Teravus Ousley: no more bendy knees, yay :D [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: my feeet are sinking into the prims though [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: man its laggy [11:02] Mircea Kitsune: how did some save custom avatars? [11:02] Mircea Kitsune: i heard there is a way [11:03] Mircea Kitsune: wow, you can run too. yesterday you couldnt [11:04] demetrius beta: Where will be the board [11:06] demetrius beta: Who is the administrator of the project opensim [11:06] Mircea Kitsune: not sure exactly [11:06] demetrius beta: I am a little new [11:07] Mircea Kitsune: same here [11:07] Charles Krinkeb: We generally wait for sdague and he conducts the meeting [11:07] Charles Krinkeb: For the last 3 weeks we have been walking to the second floor. Maybe we should do that. [11:07] demetrius beta: I do not speak English dominates the Colombian Spanish [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: wtfd [11:09] More Wright: but there is nothing to play with up here [11:09] Charles Krinkeb: [11:09] Gerhard D: And no rezzing right. [11:09] Mircea Kitsune: until scripting will work, there wont be much to play with [11:09] Gerhard D: [11:09]  More Wright: there is physics [11:09] Mircea Kitsune: yeah [11:10] Mircea Kitsune: how can we get rezzing rights on a sim like this one? [11:10] More Wright: ahh you turned physical objects off? [11:10] Charles Krinkeb: This is a technical meeting, called "Office Hour". Its purpose is for communication amongs the developers each week to make sure we are going in the same direction. [11:10] Mircea Kitsune: Very nice, glad to see 3d meetings here [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: teravus you notice im sinking into the floor [11:11] Mircea Kitsune: Um i am new, been here for like 3 days (Taoki ojn irc) Anyway i really want to get involved in this how i can, cuz the possibilities of this just rock [11:11] Chillken Proto: Tedd was talking a bit about getting at least standalone scripting working again [11:11] Charles Krinkeb: It is conducted in English, perhaps those that do not speak much english will benefit. Perhaps not. This is not a "technical support" seminar. [11:12] More Wright: okay have we established if the 100+ % CPU is now happening on all grids or its a osgrid thing? [11:12] Neas Bade: lots of grey people now [11:12] Teravus Ousley: I feel tall :P [11:12] Mircea Kitsune: Wow... to my rurprise, opensim uses 50% CPU for me [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i think its more of a Mono related thing MW [11:13]  demetrius beta: There is one who speaks Spanish [11:13] Mircea Kitsune: *surprise [11:14] Neas Bade: nebadon, you should build a ceiling light in here :) [11:14]  Teravus Ousley forces noon [11:14]  Jamie David: LOL [11:14]  Neas Bade: the sun will come up soon [11:14]  More Wright: do we have our excersise animation working yet? [11:14]  Neas Bade: everyone hates night for whatever reason :) [11:15] Gerhard D: Yes, no beds here still [11:15] Mircea Kitsune: i just dun like it cuz its dark [11:15] Mircea Kitsune tests the /me command [11:15] Charles Krinkeb: We are running 150% CPU (4 CPU's available) and 410Mbyte on Wright Plaza right now with ODE enabled. [11:15] Mircea Kitsune: nice [11:15] Teravus Ousley: That's a lot of CPU [11:15] More Wright: yeah a lot [11:15] Charles Krinkeb: And Neas generally has the priority and conducts the meeting. [11:15] Neas Bade: that's what this many people + physics seems to produce [11:15] Mircea Kitsune: um... why is my face gray? o.o [11:16] Neas Bade: I've seen the same on my environments [11:16] Neas Bade: 20 people seems to be the peg point with physics right now [11:16] Charles Krinkeb: Plus we do have a current problem where this region tends to consume 100% of a CPU after it runs for a while. [11:16] Jamie David: I think it would be helpfull if there was a technical assistance hour. Doesn't have to be led by devlopers but would be helpful for us not so clever people who just run things. Might help with devloper group to get consolidated feed back. just my 2 cents. [11:16] Teravus Ousley: have you tried it with a reliable connection? [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: we have 11 people here [11:16] Teravus Ousley: .. meaning not on the internet. [11:17] Neas Bade: well, I think my box is beefier than this one :) [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: this machine is a Quad Xeon with 4 gig of ram [11:17]  Neas Bade: Jamie, that's a good idea. I think that would be worth setting up [11:17]  Charles Krinkeb: "Test Hour" on Saturday at 1900UTC here is intended to evolve into our technical assistance hour. This is the developer technical meeting and will discuss software development. Saturday is "technical assistance" [11:17]  Neas Bade: hmmm... mines a dual xeon with 4 gb [11:17]  Neas Bade: ok, so never mind that [11:17]  Neas Bade: there are a lot more prims here though [11:18]  Jamie David: :-) [11:18] More Wright: yeah what is the prim count on this? [11:18] More Wright: and how many have physics on them? [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 2500 prims [11:18] Charles Krinkeb: I could suggest that a second "Test Hour" at a time favoring Europe/Australia/Japan would be appropriate. [11:18] Jamie David: yes physics on [11:18]  Jamie David: :-) [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: 1517 [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: i just counted [11:18]  More Wright: and CPU is increasing even if no users are on [11:19]  More Wright: ? [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:19]  Mircea Kitsune is gmt +2, 21:15 here [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: last night [11:19]  Charles Krinkeb: 147%, 410MBtye [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: i did a fresh restart on wright plaza [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: it was just mee [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: and i saw CPU at 102% [11:19]  More Wright: so its not a packet thing, and if a region has neighbours or not makes no difference? [11:20]  Mircea Kitsune: I have a 3ghz one, processor is around 50% [11:20]  Neas Bade: we definitely had the best perf numbers around CPU last friday with teravus's first set of optimization patches [11:20]  Charles Krinkeb: I dont think it is neighbor related. It feels like a mono issue. We are running mono-1.2.5.1 right now. [11:20] Mircea Kitsune: Pentium 4 here [11:20] Charles Krinkeb: r2349 also. Updated this morning. [11:20] Neas Bade: physics tended to eat more cpu after that [11:21] Neas Bade: r2351 will use less memory by a lot [11:21] Neas Bade: except for Teravus, where it uses all of his [11:21] Neas Bade: sunrise is happening folks [11:21] Neas Bade: for those that didn't force sun [11:21] Mircea Kitsune: Someone should add lights here for the night [11:21] More Wright: with your sun module do we now have console commands to set time? [11:21] Jamie David: 2333 [11:21] Charles Krinkeb: Everyone take a moment to appreciate Neas hard work on the sun ,clap> [11:21] Charles Krinkeb:  [11:21] Neas Bade: we don't yet [11:22] Teravus Ousley: :D [11:22] Mircea Kitsune: AS for physics... not sure if this is the best place to post this, but i made some tests yesterday and a entire list with the ODE [11:22] Jamie David: /clap [11:22] Mircea Kitsune: http://bug.openmetaverse.org/view.php?id=592 [11:22] Charles Krinkeb: What are the most important issues for this small hour that face us over the next week? [11:23] Neas Bade: I could do that at some point. I actually want to ask Zero a question on thursday because I think I can get the sun to move without so many packets if I understand the velocity vector for the sun correctly [11:23] More Wright: I think this CPU issue is a important one, if we can't even have a region running for a few hours [11:23] Teravus Ousley: I'm in agreement. There's something ary that's important to be fixed. [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: also the moon needs to be imported into the Grid Database [11:23] Charles Krinkeb: How can we converge our understanding to help? Are there some WriteLines that should be added that help console diagnosis? [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: only time you see the Moon in grid servers [11:24] Charles Krinkeb: pffft the moon [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: is if you have it cached [11:24] Neas Bade: :) [11:24]  Mircea Kitsune: From what i've seen and noticed and believe, i see adding some new features very important. there are probably many other issues though [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: if you dont have it cached you see a cloud [11:24]  More Wright: someone run it through a profiler on mono [11:24]  Mircea Kitsune: yeah got the clowd/moon bug too [11:24]  Neas Bade: the mono profiler is pretty decent [11:24]  Teravus Ousley: Keep an eye out for loops that run continuously while not meaning to [11:25]  Neas Bade: it's how I realized we were using 1 GB of ram for terrain textures we never used [11:25]  Jamie David: : [11:25]  Charles Krinkeb: Most of you have accounts on the openmv.org system. Does someone know how to run the profiler? [11:25]  Jamie David: :-) claps TY [11:25]  Neas Bade: mono --profiler OpenSim.exe [11:26] Mircea Kitsune: brb [11:26] Charles Krinkeb: brb [11:26] Gerhard D: Is there a similar tool for the VS envirnoment? [11:26] Neas Bade: be forwarned that it slows things down a lot [11:26] Gerhard D: Is there a similar tool for the VS envirnoment? [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea i tried that the other day neas [11:26] Neas Bade: http://www.mono-project.com/Performance_Tips [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: it really slows things down [11:27] Mircea Kitsune: back [11:27] Neas Bade: nebadon, did you try the statistical profiler? [11:28] Neas Bade: mono --profile=default:stat program.exe [11:28] Neas Bade: ? [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i turned it off [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: thats what i did [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i could hardly move [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: so i restarted with out it [11:28]  Neas Bade: well, in the hardly moving it should have given you some reasonable idea of which functions were eating everything [11:29] Neas Bade: it's going to be one of those hard nuts to crack in some ways. We are finally getting enough function to be able to run closer to linden scale on a sim, and the scalability issues are going to start to become something we run into more often now [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: my only worry is at this point we dont have scripting functioning [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: and we are already surpassing 100% cpu usage [11:30] Neas Bade is going to dive into udp code soon to try to make that a bit nicer in the hope that it will help [11:31] More Wright: yeah well I think while we don't use scripting we should actually stop loading and initialising the scripting modules as for each region, 5 threads are getting created just for scripting we don't use [11:31] Charles Krinkeb: I'll take on the profiler with Nebadon. [11:32] Charles Krinkeb: I have a suggestion. Can someone in Europe or Asia consider creating a "Assistance Hour" or another "Test Hour" at a time convenient to Europe/Asia? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: another major problem on osgrid is that region to region comms seem to fail alot [11:32] Gerhard D: This *is* convenient for europe [11:32] Mircea Kitsune: yeah, this is good [11:33] Charles Krinkeb: Chi: Is this good for you/ [11:33] More Wright: I think the saturday hour is fine for europe, this is okay except its early evening so sometimes I'm tied up with family [11:33] Gerhard D: Yes. But that is the case on every day for me [11:33] Jamie David: I am in Thailand and happy to help in the assistance hour. [11:33] Teravus Ousley: heh heh [11:33] Chillken Proto: it's ok for me, but perhaps a little early for a general test hour here [11:34] Mircea Kitsune: the only problem is that with hours, we can get tied up and forget. A clear notice saying "the meeting is starting in 5 minutes" somewhere would be nice [11:34] Jamie David: LOL [11:34] Charles Krinkeb: Jamie/Chi. May I suggest you caucus and consider setting up something at your convenience? [11:34] Neas Bade: has anyone seen Tleiades in a while? [11:34] Jamie David: :_) [11:34]  Neas Bade: I'm curious how his grid inventory stuff is progressing [11:34]  Charles Krinkeb: no. I have been looking for several days and not seen him. [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: no [11:34]  More Wright: no I was thinking that today, that I haven't seen him around for a while [11:34]  Neas Bade: or Tedd and scripting [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: hes been missing for over a week [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i saw Tedd [11:34]  More Wright: Tedd is around, just busy [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: tedd is very busy though [11:35]  Neas Bade: fair enough [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: Tleiades though seems to be MIA [11:36]  Charles Krinkeb: Is there anything we can do in testing to help Tedd with getting scripting going again? [11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: im just wondering if its even wise with the heavy CPU usage we are getting to even try to do scripting at this point [11:36]  More Wright: don't think so until he at least gets it working as now I think its not loading correctly [11:37] Charles Krinkeb: What else is important in the next week? [11:37] Neas Bade: nebadon, it's and important feature of the environment [11:37] More Wright: yeah I think we need to at least sort this 100+ CPU issue out before we do too much on scripting [11:37] Mircea Kitsune is for scripting, but as a plugin you can or can not set on your sim, so if you have cpu usage you dont [11:37] Neas Bade: right [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea that makes sense [11:37] Teravus Ousley: I drag a script into an object after hacking it.. and get script compile errors.. unfortunately, I don't understand it enough to figure out what to do about it. [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSim.ini option scripts = true [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: something like that [11:37] Mircea Kitsune: Just like physics, you disable or enable scripting from opensim.ini [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea great idea [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: script_engine = true [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that would be good [11:38] Mircea Kitsune: yeah, that would be really great [11:38] More Wright: yeah well we need work done on the module loader before we can have that, but yeah something like that is how it should work [11:39] Teravus Ousley: heh, it should also be configurable from the estate manager's box :D [11:39] Teravus Ousley: still unimplemented [11:39] Mircea Kitsune: Anyway, from what i poked around, a inventory that gets saved is also a big priority [11:40] More Wright: are there any other issues? hmm good you brought up estate, we still really need that sorted out and stop all regions sharing that single file [11:41] More Wright: well Inventory mostly works in standalone mode and Tleiades was working on getting it working in grid mode [11:41] Neas Bade: estate manager stuff is definitely in need of help [11:42] Neas Bade: it's actually worse than all regions share one, they all clobber one [11:42] Mircea Kitsune: hmm, this would bring up a wuestion; what if someone is not running opensim.exe to save their inventory, and connect here only with the client? they wont have inventory saved if its saved only on their computer, no? [11:42] Mircea Kitsune: *question [11:42] More Wright: and we need longer days still, the days feel too real, ie they go past so quickly I wonder where they have gone and have no work to show for them [11:42] Neas Bade: hehehe [11:42] Mircea Kitsune: yeah, sun spins way too fast [11:42] Teravus Ousley: :D [11:42] Neas Bade: well, if you set day length to 24.0 you'll get realtime [11:43] Neas Bade: well, not accounting for earth tilt and the like [11:43] Teravus Ousley: Who needs earth tilt anyway? [11:43] Teravus Ousley: :D [11:43] Neas Bade: when I actually get a free saturday, I figured I'd implement real earth tilt sun [11:43] More Wright: yeah the world that LL designed and we have stuck with is flat [11:44] Neas Bade: where you just plug in you longitude and latitude, and it would day progress correctly [11:44] Charles Krinkeb: sdague. The algorithm LL uses for sun cycles is in the secondlife wiki under LSL scripting. [11:44] Gerhard D: Ok. I just heard, we need another physics engine for shperic sims :-) [11:44] Mircea Kitsune: redesign the sun you mean? Cuz LL is still working onWindilight i heard... that new skybox system whcih was out once and looked splendid [11:44]  Teravus Ousley: Spheric sims? :P [11:44]  Neas Bade: Gerhard, you need sphereical land first :) [11:44] Gerhard D: :-) [11:45]  Neas Bade: oh, I've got a first past on unlinking in my inbox right now from another IBMer [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: yea personally i dont think 256x265m would make a good sphere [11:45]  Gerhard D: Ok. Another scene manager too [11:45]  Neas Bade: I'm going to look it over and if it looks good, get it into the tree [11:45]  Charles Krinkeb: Is there anything we can or should do about some of the non-english speaking engineers that are showing up recently on #opensim? [11:45]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, I think for right now, they'll have to just muddle through [11:45]  Mircea Kitsune: Maybe a translatror irc bot for them to use optionally, but that would probably be hard [11:46]  More Wright: not really much we can do unless we already have someone who can speak their language [11:46]  Chillken Proto: speaking of linking, physics doesn't seem to work with the child objects in the group yet [11:46] Teravus Ousley: nope, not supported yet [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Linking is a sticky issue [11:46] Teravus Ousley: Single physical prim are what's supported at this moment. [11:47] Mircea Kitsune: Yes. I reported this bud together with others, in linked prims you only get collisions on the main one. [11:47] More Wright: has any work/thought been given to what interface changes we need to do for the physics plugins? [11:47] Jamie David: no no linking then no workie. :-( [11:47] Mircea Kitsune: Also, unlinking is a priority i think. [11:47]  Teravus Ousley: There hasn't been any discussion on it.. so I've sort-of moved ahead on a few ideas to help shape it. [11:48]  Charles Krinkeb: Is it fair to say that DanXor needs to help spearhead physics interface changes along with Ter and Ger? [11:48]  Gerhard D: I have some ideas about a test bench for the physics engines [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: actually unlinking is low priority at this point [11:48]  Gerhard D: to test them under conditions that are more repeatable then "in world" [11:48]  Teravus Ousley: particularly with PhysicsActor, there's been some improvements that we are taking advantage of now. [11:48]  More Wright: well yeah but I think they need to be public discussions, as the changes they do effect other parts too (like the Scene/Region) [11:49]  Mircea Kitsune: Not really so low i think... objects have a slight importance too. and if you forgot and linked something by mistake, your object is tuined then [11:49] Mircea Kitsune: or prim set, not object as in link set [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: yea but stability and comms are priority right now [11:49] Gerhard D: So there might be some things I'd like to see in the interface like "set single step" and so on [11:49]  Mircea Kitsune: yeah.. true i guess [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: linking /unlinking doesnt give us either [11:49] Charles Krinkeb: Is anyone working on avatar customization. This seems to be a recurring complaint also. [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we need inventory charles [11:49] Teravus Ousley: So far, the scene can take or leave the changes. to physics actor. They're all event type stuff that the SceneObjectPart, or ScenePresence can latch on to if it needs to [11:49] Mircea Kitsune: yeah, a still inventory [11:50] Neas Bade: yeh, that's an inventory related issue I think [11:50] Gerhard D: Guys. I have to leave [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ooooh [11:50] Charles Krinkeb: Can we encourage any of the newly arrived developers to work in this arena, or should we? [11:50] Teravus Ousley: ok, Gerhard. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i have a bug [11:50] Gerhard D: See you on IRC tomorrow [11:50] Mircea Kitsune: see you next time :) [11:50]  Gerhard D: Bye [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: Sitting on a Prim [11:50]  Charles Krinkeb: by gerhard [11:50]  Jamie David waves at Gerard [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: and chatting [11:50]  Jamie David: Gerhard [11:50]  Neas Bade: ok, I think this unlink patch looks pretty decent. I'm going to move it into the tree and we can modify it from there [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: = very bad [11:51]  More Wright: yeah once we have grid inventory done, then persistance of what a avatar is wear is just a bit of glue code (maybe adding some extra fields to a database) [11:51]  Charles Krinkeb: Mantis?? [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: if you sit on a prim now and chat [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: you get stuck [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: and sometimes the sim crashes [11:51]  Mircea Kitsune: can you sit on prims? it didnt work for me [11:51]  Chillken Proto: that should be fixed now [11:51] Neas Bade: nebadon, this that in mantis [11:51] Neas Bade: you can sit on phantom prims [11:51] Mircea Kitsune: nice [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: you sure chillken? [11:51] Neas Bade: nebadon, make a block, lets see :) [11:52]  Chillken Proto: in 2349, i think [11:52]  Mircea Kitsune: yeah, it does the same to me [11:52]  Neas Bade: it has to be phantom [11:52]  Mircea Kitsune: flies around it but doesnt sit [11:52]  Neas Bade: otherwise the physics bounces you off it [11:52]  Mircea Kitsune: no sitting on the ground either [11:52]  Charles Krinkeb: We are running r2349 today [11:52]  Jamie David: OOOO bouncie bouncy [11:52]  Mircea Kitsune: wow.. nice [11:53]  Jamie David: well physics is working well. LOL [11:53]  Chillken Proto: the animation is still weird, though.... [11:53]  Charles Krinkeb: physical is not set on "Wright Plaza", but is set on "Yang", next door. [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: indeed it is fixed [11:53]  Neas Bade: animation collitions are funny [11:53]  Neas Bade: like typing flying [11:54]  Neas Bade: typing while flying.... [11:54]  Mircea Kitsune: nice [11:54] Teravus Ousley: heh heh [11:54] Chillken Proto: hehe [11:54] Mircea Kitsune: a fly animation would be nice also [11:54] Neas Bade: and apparently I don't stop typing [11:54] Neas Bade: it's there now mircea [11:54] Mircea Kitsune: wait, there is one now? i didnt have that either at my sim [11:54] Charles Krinkeb: After the meeting, I encourage folks to walk or fly to the "Triangle Pavillion", "Monopoly Park" and "Treehouse", all courtesy of Nebadon this last weekend. [11:54] Mircea Kitsune: wow... so much done in only one day :) [11:54] Neas Bade: dude, you are so 10 changesets ago ;) [11:55] Teravus Ousley: :D [11:55] Mircea Kitsune: i dotnloaded the last opensim yesterday [11:55] Chillken Proto: i think the updateMovementAnimations code needs some loving [11:55] Mircea Kitsune: ah, another question [11:55] Charles Krinkeb: Also, you should be able to walk dont the paths to some of the adjacent sims now. Particularly the four on the corners. [11:55] Mircea Kitsune: i have my sim already, and want to update the nightly build. how do i update it without overwriting my sim? [11:55] Teravus Ousley: lol, I'm in agreement with you Chi11ken [11:55] Charles Krinkeb: "down the paths" [11:55] More Wright: maybe we need to have guided tours [11:56] danx2 danx0r: hi folks [11:56] Charles Krinkeb: Just walk around. The whole thing is taking shape. Its too small for guided tours. [11:56] Teravus Ousley: Hi Dan [11:56] Charles Krinkeb: hi dan [11:56] Chillken Proto: being able to attach prims to the avatar would also be cool [11:56] danx2 danx0r: is this ODE? it's acting a bit strange [11:57] Charles Krinkeb: Mircea: Ask on irc. its not toughe [11:57] Mircea Kitsune: yes, attachments are important too. but of course, not before inventory itsself working [11:57] Mircea Kitsune: ok [11:57]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes, this is ODE, r2349 [11:57] Teravus Ousley: heh, it needs to be tweaked some more. Added 'walk vs run' [11:57] More Wright: yeah we need inventory before we can really have attachments (I think) [11:57] danx2 danx0r: I had trouble climbing the stairs [11:57] Neas Bade: teravus made the incline acceptance level a bit harsh :) [11:57]  Mircea Kitsune: Attachments should probably be easy, i looked in the code but understood nothing >.> [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: uhm [11:58]  Neas Bade: my stairs stopped working in my opensim as well [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt see anyones typing [11:58]  danx2 danx0r: mk [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: when i was sitting [11:58]  Charles Krinkeb: 5 minutes left. What other important things need to be at least mentioned today? [11:58]  Neas Bade: people should put opinions they have on REST grid interface onto the list [11:58]  danx2 danx0r: did I miss any physics talk? [11:58]  Neas Bade: adam kicked off a thread there about it [11:58]  danx2 danx0r: did I miss any physics talk? [11:59]  Teravus Ousley: sorta .. [11:59]  danx2 danx0r: sorry, I'll catch up on IRC later [11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: stand very close to the ball [11:59] danx2 danx0r: sitting is still problematic I see [11:59] Charles Krinkeb: DanXor. I think the consensus is there may be some physics interface changes and perhaps you should honcho along with Ter & Ger to make the changes happen. [11:59] Neas Bade: in watching how badly the event dispatch happens under load, I'd suggest against an events based physics model [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you need to be like in the ball [12:00] Mircea Kitsune: it still spins and doesnt sit [12:00] Teravus Ousley: right now, I'm for 'limited' events [12:00] More Wright: well Charles, any changes to the physics interfaces need to be talked about a bit first [12:00] Teravus Ousley: with careful attention to how limited it is. [12:00] danx2 danx0r: teravus - sitting problem is probably due to avatar control logic [12:00] Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps "mailing list" ideas for physics changes? [12:00] More Wright: yup [12:00] Mircea Kitsune: Myself, i would mention scripting and inventory as important features... alongside bug fixes which are very important too [12:01] danx2 danx0r: we ned to turn it off, sit down, adjust until no interpenetration, then re-enable control [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: problem though [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: when im sitting [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i dont see anyones text from chat [12:01] Neas Bade: oh, two other minor physics issues [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i see arms moving [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but i dont see what they say [12:01] Neas Bade: when something is being editted, it should have physics off [12:01] Neas Bade: even if physical [12:01] Mircea Kitsune: weird issue... what would sitting have to do with chat? [12:01] More Wright: when we sit down, is the scenepresence getting set as a childagent? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its a scene issue [12:01] danx2 danx0r: nebadon -- good idea running around, you need to burn off some calories [12:01] Chillken Proto: not anymore [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: chillken [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: sit [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i just did it [12:02]  Neas Bade: and it would be nice if flying stopped when you hit a surface other than the ground [12:02] Chillken Proto: now the avatar is set as nonphysical, but not a childagent [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt see anything anyone was typing [12:02] Mircea Kitsune: the sitting issue was present in sl main grid too [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: put your avatar inside the sphere [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then sit on it [12:02]  danx2 danx0r: what sphere? [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: see [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: can you see anything anyone is typing chillken? [12:03] Chillken Proto: yeah, it seems ok [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: someone els etype who isnt sitting [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: see [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: we cant see them [12:04] Chillken Proto: heh... wow.... [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: yep [12:04] Neas Bade: it will walk you to it [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: cant see you guys talking [12:04] Mircea Kitsune: ok, i have to go now, will be back in around an hour. Great stuff, hope things will go well. im alway willing to help in case i know with something [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: put your avatar inside the small speher [12:04] Neas Bade: oh, it used to walk yo uto it [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: then sit on it [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: test [12:04] Teravus Ousley: ok, take care Mircea [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: test [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: test [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: test [12:04] Mircea Kitsune: bye [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol neas [12:05] Teravus Ousley: I see what you typed [12:05] Charles Krinkeb: bye, mircea [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: test [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: test [12:05] More Wright: test back [12:05] Charles Krinkeb: I suggest we walk or fly outside before we leave to see what nebadon has done with the place. [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:06] danx2 danx0r: are these balls scripted? [12:06] Charles Krinkeb: no, dan [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: nope [12:06] More Wright: why when I try to sit, do I start flying? [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: MW stand in the sphere [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: it needs tweaking [12:06] Chillken Proto: i think that's the client-side autopilot [12:07] More Wright: what sphere? [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: on the chair [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: in the center [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: there is a small black sphere [12:07] Teravus Ousley: Physics moves you too fast when flying.. and you overshoot the sphere [12:07] Chillken Proto: LL does some crazy stuff to try to position you correctly server-side for sitting [12:07] t an: so i missed the boring parts of the meeting and just see you having fun, i guess :p [12:07] Chillken Proto: we may have to implement something similar... [12:08]  t an: whoa [12:09] Chillken Proto: using "sit here" scripts may make sitting easier [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: hang on [12:09]  Neas Bade: avatars also seem to have a bit more inertia than before [12:09] Teravus Ousley: 'more inertia'? [12:09] Neas Bade: they are harder to push [12:10] Teravus Ousley: Yes, I'm aware of that. [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yea sit on click doesnt work either [12:10] Teravus Ousley: walking.. you move slightly slower then before.. and it takes longer to overcome friction of the ground [12:10] More Wright: what is the record for the number of people in a region, still that 20 that was set months ago? [12:10] Neas Bade: yeh, it's actually a bit jarring. The old walk was nicer [12:11] Neas Bade: the new one feels a bit more like molases [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: yea the old walk was faster than the linden walk thogh [12:11] Charles Krinkeb: Mw. Dalien tells me it was 22 [12:11] Charles Krinkeb: And thats still the record. [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: and! [12:11] Neas Bade: I think with physics enabled, we're going to have a hard time beating that number for a bit [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: 22 was Basic Physics remember [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: ther record for ODE is 14 [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: here on Wright Plaza [12:12] Neas Bade: I definitely did at least 18 on ODE on my box on thursday [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: nice [12:12] Neas Bade: but it was pegged hard at that point [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: well thats the record [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:12] Charles Krinkeb: Got it. 22=basicphysics, 18=ODE, current record. [12:12] Neas Bade: like, no one else can log in pegged hard [12:12] More Wright: yeah but once we get the current CPU issue fixed, think we should be abl;e to get near it, as a lot has been done since we did that test [12:12] Jamie David: Time for bed. Night all thank you. :-) [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: bye jamie thanks for coming [12:13]  More Wright: bye [12:13]  Charles Krinkeb: This Saturday "Test Hour" has a good chance of breaking that record. We should strive for reliability on "Wright Plaza" for that Saturday. [12:13]  Jamie David: honor and pleasure. [12:13]  Charles Krinkeb: Bye, Jamie. [12:13]  Charles Krinkeb: I need to head out also as I am at work. [12:13]  Teravus Ousley: heh, pretty soon, I'm going to also release 'Avatar Picker' working in standalone mode too :D. [12:13]  More Wright: yeah we had what 14 people and about 20000 bouncing hippos last saturday [12:14]  Neas Bade: :) [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: hehe and missles [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: that was pretty fun [12:15] More Wright: yup, it was a good test as well, I was surprised that the region didn't crash at all [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: yea me either actually [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: not sure we could repeat that today [12:15] Neas Bade: :) [12:16]  Teravus Ousley: Dan, flying moves a bit too fast for the autohandler to kick in properly. It should speed up.. [12:16]  Neas Bade: even with all the issues, the progress is still pretty awesome [12:16]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm doesnt appear we can see what dan is typing either [12:17]  Teravus Ousley: .. you end up overshooting your sit point and doubling bac [12:17]  Neas Bade: I don't think he can hear us either [12:17]  Teravus Ousley: bah [12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: yea he cant [12:17]  Neas Bade: I lost chat when I sat just a second ago [12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: seems theres some issues there still [12:18]  Teravus Ousley: he's probably wondering why I was jumping around like a monkey [12:18]  Charles Krinkeb: my guys abandoned me for lunch, so its cheetos and coke at my desk, so I'm back. [12:18]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [12:18]  Nebadon Izumi: i want cheetos too [12:18] Neas Bade: time for a healthy breakfast? [12:19] Charles Krinkeb: Neas: Is there anything we are doing with "Wright Plaza" and OSGrid that you would suggest we should not be doing or should change our strategy a bit? [12:19] Neas Bade: I don't think so, it seems pretty solid at the moment [12:19] Teravus Ousley: heh, the avatar height code is kind of funky: m_avHeight = (1.50856f + (((float)m_visualParams[25] / 255.0f) * (2.525506f - 1.50856f))) + (((float)m_visualParams[125] / 255.0f) / 1.5f); [12:19] Neas Bade: though local inventory isn't working any more? [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: charles did you see what cprior said about the server last night? [12:19] Teravus Ousley:  Teravus : Nifty AV Height Getting Maaaaagical formula. Oh how we love turning 0-255 into meters. [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: he figured out what the zombies were [12:20] Charles Krinkeb: I'm thinking more in terms of how we purport ourselves on #opensim with new users as we invite them in here and how the region is designed and fits with the adjacent regions. [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: search engine bots were crawling the viewvc site and when they hit a certain point it was killing the CPU [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: so he did a robots.txt to block the bots [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: and he also removed the broken hyperlink [12:20] Charles Krinkeb: CPrior?? [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: yes [12:21] Charles Krinkeb: you are kidding, "BOTS" were hurting us? [12:21] More Wright: yeah to be honest, I'm wondering if a region at the moment should be running on the same box as the UGA as if there is a problem with that region, then it takes them with it [12:21]  Nebadon Izumi: yep [12:21] Charles Krinkeb: I can see if I can get at least a backup on the test server that Adam provided by this weekend. [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea it might be good to move wright plaza to that server [12:22] Charles Krinkeb: Let me work on that in the background, please. I am a lot less grumpy when I have a few days to think it through. [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: sure take your time [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: no rush [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: that server is FC6? [12:23] Charles Krinkeb: I think so. [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: yea i remember adam asking what you wanted [12:23] More Wright: has moving wright plaza nearer to the other regions had any effect? [12:24] Nebadon Izumi: well other than flushing out the severity of region to region coms [12:24] Nebadon Izumi: no [12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: it hasnt effected this region [12:24] Nebadon Izumi: other than you can fly away into oblivion if you cross the border some times [12:24] Charles Krinkeb: Well, a little. Mostly in the fact that when one has problems, the adjacent one tends to have problems, but these are managable. [12:25] Charles Krinkeb: I think the key reliability issue is the freeze right now. That obscures any other issues. [12:25] More Wright: yeah well the flying into oblivion sometimes has always been a problem and is there so people from SL feel that bit more at home [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: thats in the SL Emulator Module [12:26] Charles Krinkeb: Why dont you guys walk across the border to nebadon's regions and see what happens right now?? [12:26] More Wright: lets do a mass crossing [12:26] Neas Bade: sounds good, lead the way [12:26] Neas Bade: it's the great pilgramage [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: ok [12:26]  Charles Krinkeb: Neb, you are center stage [12:26] More Wright: nebadon, its your region, so you should lead