Chat log from the meeting on 2022-05-31

 [10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [10:59] NevenNate Howell: Hi [10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: oooh... chat lag [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. [11:00] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:00] Ubit Umarov: welcome [11:00] NevenNate Howell: hello [11:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Not much going on this week, minor change to movetotarget was all that went on [11:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Do have some issues I am tracking, but nothing concrete yet [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, NevenNate. Welcome to the OpenSimulator developer meeting. Despite the name you don't have to be a developer to be here. [11:03] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Did make some minor changes to Gloebit fork to fix some crashes it causes, still not done with that though [11:03] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Ideally want to get that module to failsafe not crashing the whole simulator [11:03] NevenNate Howell: I read the office hours before I showed up [11:03] Ubit Umarov: vincent, that is not core code changes [11:03] Ubit Umarov: lets keep the meeing abotu opensim core code changes, ok? [11:04] Ubit Umarov: unless you did submite a patch i didn't notice :) [11:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Nah I was mainly digging around cause it kept showing the mysql driver as the cause, but ended up just being in the module. Not sure if you share that opinion, but I think modules should never cause crashes on their own [11:04] Ubit Umarov: And yes last week we got reports of 2 issues on recent avatar movement update processing [11:06] Ubit Umarov: llmovetotarget on attachments was not working well.. fixed now [11:06] Ubit Umarov: the other report was about some viewers mousewalk feature [11:06] Ubit Umarov: using that, avatar now moves slower. [11:07] Ubit Umarov: issue is that vierwer do sent walk strengh [11:07] Ubit Umarov: like 3 variations at least [11:07] Ubit Umarov: in fact could be 9 combinatiosn [11:08] Ubit Umarov: using keyboard,  it sends nudge mov comand for 250ms of key press [11:08] Ubit Umarov: then changes to telling move And Move fast,  2 flags set at same time [11:08] Ubit Umarov: so there is a low speed move for 250ms, then normal speed that is actualy normal + fast, currently [11:09] Ubit Umarov: on top of that there is run.. but run is on other protocol message [11:09] Ubit Umarov: now that mousewalk is a viewers hack triggers the keys [11:10] Ubit Umarov: BUT.. thye never fixed the timer.., mouse has not keypressed timer, [11:10] Ubit Umarov: code uses the same key press.. since there was no key press, that pressed time is zero [11:11] Ubit Umarov: so.. mousewalk only tells region to move the avatar slowly.. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: seems SL downgrade regions quality, and they only have one "speed/strength" so we don't notice this there [11:12] Ubit Umarov: such downgrade means that the minimal avater step is 1 to 1.5m [11:12] Ubit Umarov: pretty bad [11:13] Ubit Umarov: currently we have that cut to half [11:13] Ubit Umarov: and not going to break that, just because incomplete viewer feature code [11:14] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: FS now has a issue open for that so maybe they can send the correct data over that would be the best solution [11:14] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: More code added on movement just makes it behave slower and clunkier, no need to make a mess there [11:16] Ubit Umarov: well they have to had a timer to that left on avatar click + right click thing [11:16] Ubit Umarov: also notice that on FS, left click on a prim with touch_start, opens edit on it [11:17] Ubit Umarov: alch does not seem to do that [11:17] Ubit Umarov: and also has the mousewalk feature [11:17] Ubit Umarov: that is in fact nice [11:18] Ubit Umarov: well the slow speed is only a issue if you want to walk long distance [11:18] Ubit Umarov: everyone calls a taxi this days.. who walks?? [11:19] Ubit Umarov: ;) [11:19] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I double click teleport, that was broken in FS for a while would trigger every time, that was... not fun lol [11:19] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: If I have to go a long way inworld I fly (when allowed) or run. [11:20] Ubit Umarov: better have those mouse actions just disable [11:20] Ubit Umarov: not that easy to not click on wrong spot [11:21] Ubit Umarov: like click on animesth things [11:21] Ubit Umarov: jezz very hard to do :) [11:21] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Would be neat to have it in combo with a modifier key, but hey at least I don't have to use the map to teleport, that would be pain [11:22] Ubit Umarov: this is mousewalk [11:22] Ubit Umarov: not that slow slow i guess [11:22] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: You notice that quite a bit when you fiddle with the divisors for walking speed [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd say that is a reasonable walking speed. [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Some people want to Bolt everywhere heh [11:23] Ubit Umarov: ofc thois region is on defaults [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I made walk even slower to match the animation via the constant so I didn't notice it at all [11:23] Ubit Umarov: yeah our keys walk alrady looks like running [11:23] Ubit Umarov: see [11:24] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: forward moonwalk [11:24] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Skating along [11:24] Ubit Umarov: hmm?~ [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a bit of that [11:24] Ubit Umarov: im not mickel jackson [11:24] Ubit Umarov: u don't moonwalk :p [11:24] Ubit Umarov: err i dont [11:25] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Avatar key run is faster than I can ride my bike most roads [11:25] Ubit Umarov: seen on a viewer a moonwalk option [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: The walking animation and forward motion have never been 100% synchronized. [11:26] Ubit Umarov: but didn't test it, when went back looking, did not found it :P [11:26] Ubit Umarov: No [11:26] NevenNate Howell: could there be a set speed, with a is_running bool true/false saved on sim like in most games then x2 speed [11:26] Ubit Umarov: viewers do change animation rate, based on speed [11:26] Ubit Umarov: at least should.. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: there is the always running [11:28] Ubit Umarov: tap tap hold does work on with the mouse [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Whether walking or running there is a slight slippage of the foot on the ground that can be seen if one looks closely. [11:29] Ubit Umarov: none of thise things was made to close look [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: everything fails on close look [11:30] Ubit Umarov: it still takes a lot of imagination to feel the gaps [11:30] Ubit Umarov: "immersion" [11:31] Ubit Umarov: avatars looking more like cartoons may improve that actually [11:31] Ubit Umarov: brain is ness prone to compare with rl [11:31] Ubit Umarov: but just guessing [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:32] Ubit Umarov: well on the other hand brain also does fixe those isues [11:33] Ubit Umarov: bc brain does not see what is there, but what it expects to be there.. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: ( like the mars face.. horses rinding in clouds.. etc etc ) [11:33] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: In RL we have quantum mechanics that is more weird than what I see with close inspection in OS. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: well yeah [11:34] Ubit Umarov: but luckly quatum effects at human size scale are rare things in rl [11:34] Ubit Umarov: tunneling would be disturbing thing [11:35] Ubit Umarov: ohh tanks here have a extra armour thing [11:36] Ubit Umarov: is they stop a X meters from target, bullets tunnel not touching them :P [11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( consequence of simulation only in timesteps of 20ms ))no whisper echo) [11:37] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Btw the meeting logs for the 24th are still missing from the wiki [11:38] Ubit Umarov: so fun seeing in tv car wheels moving back [11:38] Ubit Umarov: or heli blades, etc [11:38] Kayaker Magic: Have I missed much? [11:38] Ubit Umarov: i did add a limit to angular motion to avoid that here [11:39] Ubit Umarov: not that nice [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, That's odd. I was sure I posted the log to the wiki last week. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: but does irritate me seening in games also, wheels moving back [11:39] NevenNate Howell: talk on mouse movement Kayaker [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker. [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Not that much. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: or WoT tanks tracks [11:40] Ubit Umarov: ( thats nyquist sampling theorem / sampling aliasing ) [11:41] Ubit Umarov: i still didnt look to ODE ray/terrain code :) [11:41] Ubit Umarov: still on TODO [11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: avatar tunneling: Pass through walls

You need double-click move (above) turned on. You just need to cam to the inside of a place and use the double-click to there. To cam through a wall, zoom up close to it. Then rotate your view (side-pointing arrow) till you see the other side. This won't work in a place where the TP landing point is set. [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, log has been posted. [11:42] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Merci [11:43] Ubit Umarov: think i made physics sit on prims a bit tp also :) [11:43] Ubit Umarov: should realy put restrictions on them [11:44] Ubit Umarov: in fact limit those sits to avatars on same parcel [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be a good idea. [11:45] Ubit Umarov: don't remember not, but at thing they had 10m range [11:45] Ubit Umarov: think [11:45] Ubit Umarov: err and not? now ! [11:46] Ubit Umarov: but sit on a roof or something is a fast way to get someplace :) [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: That is true but I do find that some objects don't let you sit so that doesn't always work. [11:48] Ubit Umarov: A) you need ubode [11:48] Ubit Umarov: b) the prim must have nice physics mesh [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: As it doesn't always seem to work with standard prims it could be the regions weren't using ubode. [11:50] Ubit Umarov: it works with standard non phantom prims [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at 10 minutes left in the hour. Any other topics for discussion today? [11:51] Ubit Umarov: see? [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Ubit [11:52] Ubit Umarov: if you hit a phantom, it does like bullet.. puts you on a silly place [11:53] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: After the fourth time being catapulted into space I made a habit now to add sit and stand targets to everything [11:53] Ubit Umarov: mesh makers also forget this [11:54] Ubit Umarov: the mesh for physics should also be ok for sits, and also ok for raycasts [11:54] Ubit Umarov: not only script but the camera ones also [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I suspect a lot of mesh makers may not think about the raycasting part. [11:55] Ubit Umarov: many don't even think physics :) [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well seems ll plans to change meshs and materials [11:55] Ubit Umarov: so, we may lose viewers, if thy decide to change to that losing "legacy" [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any note(s) in the wiki about mesh and what one needs to take in to account re: sits and raycasts? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: possible they can't bc SL is filled with "legacy" [11:58] Ubit Umarov: have a viewer dev giving me such news, as if that will be the end of opensim [11:59] Ubit Umarov: when it will, at most, be the end of that viewer on opensim, unless it stays complatible [11:59] Ubit Umarov: and compatible [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:59] Ubit Umarov: but well people said things.. [11:59] Ubit Umarov: lets wait and see [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. If it is just something that LL is "planning on doing" there is little point in worrying about it until they say they are doing it. [12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah [12:01] Ubit Umarov: actuall more than that [12:01] Ubit Umarov: until a TPV does add that code is a usable way [12:02] Ubit Umarov: i don't look to SL viewers code, for features [12:02] NevenNate Howell: Their are viewers that are optimized for opensim because they did not like the changes in SL [12:02] Ubit Umarov: those do not work on opensim [12:02] Ubit Umarov: i only look to code of viewers "for opensim" [12:03] Kayaker Magic: I try to go to the TPV meetings, but missed the last few. Have they moved to a different time or location? [12:03] Ubit Umarov: wel and only a few :) [12:03] Ubit Umarov: no idea [12:03] Ubit Umarov: looked on the movies site? [12:04] Ubit Umarov: https://www.youtube.com/c/PanteraPolnocy [12:04] Ubit Umarov: keeps a record of meetings like that [12:04] Ubit Umarov: and other things :) [12:04] Ubit Umarov: last there seems to be may 13 [12:05] NevenNate Howell: Firestorm does not work on standalone out of box by the way I had to download cool viewer [12:05] Ubit Umarov: works fine for mw [12:05] Ubit Umarov: well or did several long weeks ago [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? I haven't used my Standalone that recently but I have never noticed an issue accessing it with FS. [12:06] NevenNate Howell: I tried mine yesterday new OS and Firestorm and it just hangs [12:06] Ubit Umarov: last time i did run a standalone :) [12:06] NevenNate Howell: I just accepted everything that did not require an entry [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: NevenNate, What happens when you try using FS with a standalone? [12:07] NevenNate Howell: It just hangs [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: On startup or when trying to login? [12:07] NevenNate Howell: Cool logs right in but firestorm does nothing but says cannot connect even if I run both at the same time [12:07] NevenNate Howell: login [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm starting up my Standalone copy of OS. [12:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: If you believe there to be an issue with OpenSim in that regard putting a mantis ticket with log files in would help, difficult to debug these things without seeing what goes on [12:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: A connection failure and stuck login generally hints at bad network configuration [12:09] NevenNate Howell: Ill try to figure it out I dont think its OS I think its FS [12:09] NevenNate Howell: like I said Cool works fine [12:11] NevenNate Howell: I just don't use SL anymore and see no Firestorm stuff posted for OS so thought I would mention it [12:11] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Scenegate works fine [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Check the OS console for any messages that might indicate the source of the problem. [12:12] Ubit Umarov: working fine for me [12:13] Ubit Umarov: just did update a standalone, fired it and did log fine with fs 66095 [12:13] Ubit Umarov: 6.5.5 [12:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: must go -- bye all [12:13] Ubit Umarov: cya [12:13] NevenNate Howell: Ill run stuff on my end and see If I can find the problem then [12:14] NevenNate Howell: ill let you all know [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Selby. See you next week. [12:14] NevenNate Howell: good day everyone [12:14] Ubit Umarov: ports at opensim.ini and regions.ini are the usual [12:14] Ubit Umarov: noobs issue :p [12:14] Ubit Umarov: ( and less noobs also ) [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I logged in to my standalone using OS that I last built on May 4 [12:17] Ubit Umarov: Oh [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: NevenNate, let us know what you find. I'm testing it now with OS that I built just now. [12:17] Ubit Umarov: seems metro gird will close [12:17] Ubit Umarov: grid.. [12:17] Ubit Umarov: they have it on their news site [12:18] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Surprised me quite a bit [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think I've ever been there. [12:20] Ubit Umarov: one person that used to be part of the admin, used to be here on al meetings [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... my Standalone is throwing out some errors from ubODE -> invalid degenerated mesh [12:20] Ubit Umarov: sheera? [12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, Sheera. Haven't seen Sheera in a long time. [12:21] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess years even :( [12:21] Ubit Umarov: used to sit here to my left [12:21] Ubit Umarov: hm and did the logs no? [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I just logged in to my Standalone using FS 6.5.3 without any problem, [12:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Kinda sad to see them go, they been a constant for a long time [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember the tiger(?) avatar. [12:23] Ubit Umarov: yes the avatar was like a tiger [12:23] Ubit Umarov: humanoid tiger :) [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: My friends list showed that she came in to this meeting via metro.land. [12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I should pop over to metro to leave her a message before that grid closes down. [12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: On that note, I think it is time to close down this meeting. [12:25] Ubit Umarov: think she was about to leave metro also [12:25] Ubit Umarov: rl things [12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: We were a small group this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.