Chat log from the meeting on 2008-10-07



[12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Nebadon Izumi [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Roger Fullstop [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Linho  A.D.A [12:05]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: sacha Magne [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Ima Bot [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Estevan Araujo [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Admin UCI [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Philippe Debevec [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D [12:05]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Altbot Obscure [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Darren Vayandar [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Orion Shamroy [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Dahlia Trimble [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mojo Werkin [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Elaine Bennett [12:05] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 21

[10:53] Chris D is Online [10:53] Nebs Cherry Martini with Orange Slice whispers: Another route to Nirvana [10:56] Nebadon: hello [10:56] daTwitch: Howdeh [10:56] Chris D: Hi, nebadon [10:57] Nebadon: see how it goes [10:57] Nebadon: hopefully wont crash again [10:57] daTwitch: I'll teleport in shortly [10:57] Nebadon: i really think its related to border crossing [10:57] Nebadon: some how [10:58] Nebadon: but im not 100% sure [10:58] sacha Magne: noting in the log i guess ? [10:58] Hiro Protagonist is Online [10:59] Nebadon: its a combo [10:59] Nebadon: i suppose [10:59] Nebadon: but related to border crossing in particular [10:59] Nebadon: hehe is Altbot = Dahlia? [10:59] Charles Krinkeb is Online [10:59] Altbot Obscure: lol maybe ;) [11:00]  Nebadon: hehe [11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: Morning [11:00]  Nebadon: morning [11:00]  sacha Magne: altbot is justin in fact [11:00]  Altbot Obscure: lol maybe ;) [11:00] Nebadon: hehe not according to my research [11:00] Nebadon: :P [11:01] Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:01] Altbot Obscure: drat nebadon has be pinged [11:01] Altbot Obscure: *me [11:01] Nebadon: hehe [11:01] Nebadon: i try to be proactive [11:01] Nebadon: hehe [11:02] Simulator Version shouts: OpenSimulator Server  0.5.9.6727  (OS Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) Kernel \r on an \) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True [11:02] Nebadon: cool the timer works [11:02] Nebadon: hehe [11:02] Teravus Ousley: altbot obscure looks a bit like Dahlia [11:02] ocsean: I updated UC Irvine to the same release as WP, maybe that's helping [11:02] Altbot Obscure: just a little [11:02] Nebadon: thanks ocsean [11:02] Nebadon: it probably will [11:03] daTwitch: I find that if I keep my large cylinder in my pants I dont lose it as often ROFL [11:03] Nebadon: hehe [11:03] Teravus Ousley: err [11:03] daTwitch: sorry Ter, couldnt resist ;) [11:04]  You shout: upstairs Charles [11:04]  Nebadon: i could see him typing in IRC [11:04]  Nebadon: hehe [11:04]  Nebadon: but not here [11:04]  Charles Krinkeb: Oops, sorry [11:04]  Teravus Ousley: we havith minimap dots! [11:04]  Roger Fullstop: that's ok [11:04]  Nebadon: no problem [11:05]  Altbot Obscure: Altbot Obscure notices the high frame time with only 11 avies [11:05]  Hiro Protagonist: hee hee, movie time? [11:05]  Nebadon: oh yea [11:05]  Nebadon: how nice [11:05]  Richardus Raymaker: and normal map dots [11:05]  Hiro Protagonist: anyone got a URL for '300'? [11:05]  Nebadon: hehe [11:05]  Teravus Ousley: http://threehundred/ [11:05]  Nebadon: i have no doubt you could go to SL and in less than 10 minutes fine one [11:05]  Hiro Protagonist: ROFL [11:05]  Hiro Protagonist: touche! ;D [11:06]  Charles Krinkeb: Everyone be nice to Teravus. He may be about to embark on a deep, dark, physics quest. [11:06] Nebadon: hehe [11:06] Nebadon: is it me or is Ter's head missing [11:06] Nebadon: maybe the prims are just missing on my viewer [11:06] Altbot Obscure: he was missing a wing earlier [11:06] Teravus Ousley: is my head missing? [11:06] sacha Magne: ter got his head [11:06] Nebadon: ah ok its me then [11:06] Nebadon: for me its a stump [11:06] Nebadon: hehe [11:06] Teravus Ousley: yeah, hate that stump [11:06] Admin UCI: I see his head [11:07] Charles Krinkeb: Any complaints about Teravus should be filed at the complaint pavillion (which doest exist yet). [11:07] sacha Magne: well, he is a dragon [11:07] Altbot Obscure: one wing, no head [11:07] Nebadon: hehe [11:07] Hiro Protagonist: some parts missing or not fully rezzed [11:07] Nebadon: so what else is going on? [11:07] Nebs Cherry Martini with Orange Slice whispers: Another route to Nirvana [11:07] Admin UCI: I have my network limited to 150, seems to help [11:07] Nebadon: yea actually i was testing [11:08] Nebadon: and cranked mine to 500 [11:08] Altbot Obscure: did justincc change the throllle? [11:08] Nebadon: im normally at 350 [11:08] Altbot Obscure: *throttle? [11:08] Nebadon: he did do some adjusting i think [11:08] Hiro Protagonist: I seem to notice a distinct change in throttling here too [11:08] Admin UCI: I think he did, not sure if it got released yet [11:09] Charles Krinkeb: Is everyone currently optimistic about recent stability of svn? [11:09] Nebadon: i am, the only region i have problems with is this one [11:09] Nebadon: everything else runs great [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: yeah, mine seem to be very stable [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: how long have we had the irc bridge running? [11:09] Nebadon: but in all fairness, ive been dropping elbows on this sim daily [11:09] Nebadon: with new scripts [11:09] Nebadon: hehe [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: perhaps a gremlin snuck in on the heels of that? [11:09] Admin UCI: yes, things are better now for me, was touchy last weeks [11:10] Nebadon: plus this region gets massive traffic [11:10] Nebadon: 110 visitors in like 2 1/2 days [11:10] Hiro Protagonist: dayum [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hehe. good sign [11:10] nebadon: http://pastebin.ca/1221833 [11:10] Charles Krinkeb: Before we get too deep, I am working on writing/editing "The history of OpenSim". All are encouraged to send me via e-mail ata cfk@pacbell.net, a paragraph written in 3rd person to include. [11:10] sacha Magne: could we have some memory issues ? [11:10] Altbot Obscure: do you leave the irc bridge on all the time? [11:10] Nebadon: i do [11:10]  Nebadon: now [11:11] Nebadon: seems to work great [11:11] BlueWall Slade: has anyone moved to mono 2.0? [11:11] Nebadon: all the plazas are on IRC bridge [11:11] Altbot Obscure: there should probably be a sign or something [11:11] Teravus Ousley: IRC BRIDGE OFF! [11:11] Nebadon: hehe yea i am working on signage [11:11] Teravus Ousley: I COMMAND THEE! [11:11] Altbot Obscure: lol [11:11] Nebadon: make sure you feed the troll under the IRC bridge [11:11] Nebadon: or beware [11:11] Admin UCI: isn't that against TOS? hehehe [11:11] Hiro Protagonist: ROFL!! [11:12] Charles Krinkeb: There is only one rule in the TOS : "Have Fun". [11:12] Teravus Ousley: I see some happily placed green dots on the minimap :D [11:12] Nebadon: yea mostly its just being used for logging, it gives us admins more insite on what was happening at the moment of a crash [11:12] Hiro Protagonist: nice job Ter :) [11:12]  Nebadon: doesnt tell the whole story, but its a bit more detail we didnt have before [11:13]  Teravus Ousley: it should also put the people in the proper offset of whatever they're sitting on.. [11:13]  Hiro Protagonist: indeed it does [11:13]  Teravus Ousley: so.. you don't have 12 dots in one spot.. on a 12 seater couch [11:13]  Charles Krinkeb: Will next week likely be "Physics Week" ?? [11:14]  Teravus Ousley: I don't think it'll be ready by then honestly. but shortly after parhaps [11:14]  Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: Hi :) [11:14] Script saved [11:14] Compile successful [11:14] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe we can have a series of contests for 1) Highest vertical stand up ejection 2) Deepest under the terrain and such. [11:15] Teravus Ousley: Hi Sim crossing! [11:15] Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:15] Teravus Ousley: We've got a Trifecta here [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: what an interesting confusion of blended conversation streams [11:15] Charles Krinkeb: I was wondering, Teravus, if one could setup a scritped object to run somewhat controlled physics tests. [11:15] Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: Dahlia Trimble tapped your phones :) [11:16]  Hiro Protagonist: Hey Dahlia, I hear you've been doing some work on vehicular functions for LSL? [11:16]  Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: I have? [11:16]  Hiro Protagonist: LOL [11:16]  Charles Krinkeb: Ok, looks like Whump may not be here, so I have a question for the OGP part. "Is it working with recent SVN?" [11:16]  Hiro Protagonist: so much for rumor! heehee [11:16]  Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: I looked into it a little a while back [11:17]  Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: I've done a little work on LSL physics functions [11:17]  Nebadon: nice [11:17]  Richardus Raymaker: yes [11:17]  Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: been a while go tho [11:17]  Charles Krinkeb: Little? Dahlia did a *lot*!! [11:17]  Nebadon: cause the light cycle grid is near completion :D [11:18]  Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: light cycle grid? [11:18]  Nebadon: hehe im building a light cycle arena [11:18] Nebadon: "nebadon2025" [11:18] Nebadon: i took down the 800 cycles [11:18] Nebadon: and started something new [11:19] Hiro Protagonist: Ter's head has rezzed fully for me now :D [11:19] Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: well ODE has some nice vechcle support but i dont think it's compatable with LSL vehicle functions that exist in SL [11:19]  Nebadon: that makes sense [11:19] Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: at least not 1:1 [11:19] Hiro Protagonist: yeah that would be more than a bit trixie [11:19] Nebadon: i would have been more suprised if it were [11:20] Hiro Protagonist: would be lurvely to have a set of osFunctions that presented an ODE API tho [11:20] Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: that would be nice :) [11:20]  Hiro Protagonist: at least where such would be usefull [11:20]  Teravus Ousley: meeting? [11:20]  Hiro Protagonist: Hey it's Whump [11:20]  Sim88:  Dahlia Trimble: hope it would be supportable [11:20]  Hiro Protagonist: something to think about for the future maybe :) [11:20] You shout: upstairs Bill [11:21] Teravus Ousley shouts: Look for the green dots on the minimap [11:21] Nebadon: lol [11:21] Hiro Protagonist: Heh :) [11:22]  Whump Linden: Hello. Apologies for running late. Got caught up in a hallway discussion. [11:22]  Teravus Ousley: alternatively you can see the green dots smushed together on the mainmap [11:22]  Nebadon: no worries [11:22]  Altbot Obscure: HIya Whump :) [11:22] Teravus Ousley: Teravus Ousley hasn't quite got dot towers working yet. [11:22] Charles Krinkeb: Whump, would you like the floor for interop/OGP discussions. [11:22] Whump Linden: Charles, whenever you are ready for me. [11:23] Charles Krinkeb: Please go ahead, Whump. [11:23] Whump Linden: Okay, first a reminder that there's a new source drop for the main viewer branch. [11:24] Whump Linden: Second, Periapse and are still trying to get Babbage to comment on http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9332. [11:24] Whump Linden: Third, Periapse said he would come to my OO tomorrow if you have Mono questions. [11:25] Teravus Ousley: interesting.. maybe I can get Melanie there [11:25] Whump Linden: I may have another developer or lead there as well. I'll email if I have more info. [11:25] Teravus Ousley: though.. Babbage would be cooler on the mono topic :D [11:26] Whump Linden: Fourth: Leyla is working on the derez messages left over from the teleport draft. [11:26] Teravus Ousley: Teravus Ousley thought Tedd and Babbage were working out some kind of common IScript or something [11:26] Whump Linden: So, would it be useful if we put that up on agent1. [11:27] Whump Linden: er, ? [11:27] Teravus Ousley: that was several months ago however. [11:27] Whump Linden: Teravus, I don't know if Babbage has been talking to OpenSim devs as of late. [11:28] Whump Linden: Is that Tedd who owned the scripting engine until Melanie took it up? [11:28] Teravus Ousley: Tedd has been out of commission with tendonitis [11:28] Teravus Ousley: Yes [11:28] Whump Linden: Okay, I thought Babbage had been talking with Melanie as of late, but not sure. [11:29] Whump Linden: The problem is that my OO are in the middle of the night for Babbage, but Periapse can represent the Mono team there. [11:29] Teravus Ousley: Teravus Ousley nods [11:30] Whump Linden: The other topic for tomorrow's OO is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3156 [11:30] Sim88:  Sim88: notices Dahlia Trimble left Dahlia Island OSGrid Interop [11:31] Whump Linden: So lastly, if Teravus or others are ready to do another interop sprint to finish the derez messages the Teleport draft, let me and or Leyla know. [11:31] Nebadon: heh thought we crashed for a moment [11:31] Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:31] Whump Linden: yes my typing went on a bit longer, but it's all good [11:32] Teravus Ousley: I'm ok with that, just let me know. I'm working on Physics this week, but I'll keep it in a separate branch [11:32] Whump Linden: kk, thanks, that's all I have at the moment [11:32] Nebadon: Nebadon Izumi gets out his virtual video camera for some new physics videos [11:33] nebadon: hmm i think im frozen [11:33] nebadon: not sure [11:33] Teravus Ousley: Teravus Ousley originally signed on the OpenSimulator project as the owner of Physics :D [11:33] Nebadon: nope [11:33] Nebadon: hehe [11:34] Nebs Cherry Martini with Orange Slice whispers: Another route to Nirvana [11:34] Nebadon: :D [11:34] Charles Krinkeb: All right, thats cool, Whump. I think Teravus is about to also do an ODE physics update in a week or so. [11:34] Whump Linden: kk [11:35]  Sim88:  Sim88: notices Dahlia Trimble logging out [11:35] Charles Krinkeb: Next question: 'What are the things the developers need from the testers in this next week?' [11:35] Teravus Ousley: yep. needs to be calibrated for the new version [11:35] Teravus Ousley: help finding deadlocks [11:36] Teravus Ousley: If your sim deadlocks.. Figure out what you were doing and mantis it [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: you got it Bub [11:36] Nebadon: cool [11:36] Nebadon: my middle name is deadlock [11:36] Teravus Ousley: maybe we'll be able to figure out by commonalities [11:36] Charles Krinkeb: with that in mind, I want to remind folks to get a second confirming observation and recommend to others they do the same to help our developers diagnose. [11:36] Orion Shamroy: Deadlocks as in just suddenly crashes - back to console? [11:36] Teravus Ousley: nope. Just locks up totally [11:36] Nebadon: yea be specific in your mantis so people can replicate it [11:37]  Altbot Obscure: a solid repro is quite helpful too [11:37] Charles Krinkeb: Particularly Windows vs Linux, DotNEt vs XEngine, that sort of thing. [11:37] Teravus Ousley: people cant move.. but the sim didn't crash.. just nothing is going on. [11:37] Orion Shamroy: got it. [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: the only freezxe i see is after a failed TP. [11:37] Hiro Protagonist: and whether you were currently spinning any daft punk tracks is a good datapoint too [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: but thats posisble the viewer.. [11:37] BlueWall Slade: I have see something like that with the OSSL teleport functions [11:37] Teravus Ousley: heh, indeed.. better harder faster stronger.. [11:37] Charles Krinkeb: Yes, which means, we should strive to report with the same viewer [11:38] Charles Krinkeb: We try to use the official secondlife.com download as our current viewer for testing. [11:38] Hiro Protagonist: actually Ter, that's what I was listening to that suggested the fun :) [11:38]  Admin UCI: I've seen my 3x3 sims freeze with no one on them [11:38]  Charles Krinkeb: If one uses hippo or other, and there are repro questions, just be prepared to test the official viewer. [11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: lets see if the improved the SL viewer first [11:39]  Teravus Ousley: I also note that the latest release viewer seems to function OK with opensimulator. [11:39]  Hiro Protagonist: best probably just to go ahead and test anything suspicious with the official client [11:39]  Teravus Ousley: That's the one with the security fix yesterday [11:39]  Hiro Protagonist: if you arent running it already [11:39]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes, we all have seen idle sims freeze and that is one of the mysteries we need to figure out. [11:40]  Charles Krinkeb: Anyone that can justify or rationalize closing a Mantis would help us. We have too much noise level and old Mantisi. [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: i got some connection problems last days. so dont count mine (lightning) [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: its fixed now btw. [11:40] Hiro Protagonist: Fly-Man and I hit that pretty hard yesterday [11:40] Charles Krinkeb: Any issues can come back as new Mantis, thats no problem. [11:40] Hiro Protagonist: we'll do so again in the coming week I feel certain [11:40] Charles Krinkeb: Thanks, Hiro, I saw. I was mainly soliciting others attention. [11:41] Teravus Ousley: I'm still getting weird jumping packet numbers [11:41] BlueWall Slade is Offline [11:41] Charles Krinkeb: I dont see anything wrong with closing older Mantis merely so we can focus on the problem again with new data. [11:41] Teravus Ousley: same server. [11:41] Hiro Protagonist: agreed Charles - the older mantis are very much out of synch given significant refactoring in the intervening period [11:42] Charles Krinkeb: I may just start closing some of the ones more then 6 months old. [11:42] Charles Krinkeb: Anyone object? [11:42] Hiro Protagonist: I'd say that would not be a bad thing, excepting perhaps those that you know to still persist [11:42] Teravus Ousley: Teravus Ousley shakes head. Keep the enhancements.. but the bugs.. probably good to close [11:43] Hiro Protagonist: Hiro Protagonist nods [11:43] Charles Krinkeb: Let It Be Written [11:43] Hiro Protagonist: LoL Charles [11:43] Charles Krinkeb: Ok, next question. "What are the things the testers need from the developers?" [11:43] sacha Magne: could we ask developer to fill a mantis saying on what they are working on ? [11:44] Charles Krinkeb: Sacha. Certainly. Anyone can add a note to a Mantis or create a Mantis. [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: It's a secret :) [11:44]  sacha Magne: i mean make it clear [11:44]  sacha Magne: it could avoid some frustrations [11:45]  Dahlia Trimble: that implies a commitment [11:45]  Charles Krinkeb: Sacha. Everyone is a volunteer. I can only suggest, and I have found the loose, organic team works more quickly, even though there are frustrations. [11:46]  Charles Krinkeb: Trick is, dont take the work of any one core-developer as gospel. And that applies to every one of us. [11:46]  Charles Krinkeb: sorry [11:46]  Charles Krinkeb: the "Words" [11:46]  Charles Krinkeb:  [11:46]  sacha Magne: i understand clearly, but askin "lateral devs" lik me to post their actual devs. could help i guess [11:47]  Charles Krinkeb: One solution is to find a core developer to work closely with, Sacha. [11:47]  Dahlia Trimble: I think one problem with i besides implying a commitment, is that most of us do this in our spare time and issues change as we find more time to sork on it [11:47]  sacha Magne: i know it's not easy [11:47] Charles Krinkeb: And, Sacha, I underestand your frustration as I have read your recent posts. [11:47] sacha Magne: yup [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: *work on it [11:48]  Charles Krinkeb: All I can say, Sacha, is that I will go out of my way to apply patches you submit. [11:48] Charles Krinkeb: But, I cannot guarantee what anyone besides myself will do on any given day. [11:49] sacha Magne: it's not that the problem [11:49] sacha Magne: it's not even a problem [11:49] sacha Magne: the problem is knowing who do what [11:49] sacha Magne: even in general [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: the developer list on the wiki [11:49] sacha Magne: is there a list ? [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: yes [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: it's right off the main page [11:50] sacha Magne: i missed that one [11:51] Whump Linden: okay, I'm hosting Zero's OO in his stead this afternoon, ttys. [11:51] Nebadon: yea the wiki can be blinding [11:51] Hiro Protagonist: take care Whump :) [11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: cya whump :) [11:51] sacha Magne: i'm not renting :) [11:51]  Nebadon: i find myself looking for hours for things i typed days ago on the wiki [11:51]  Nebadon: hehe [11:51]  Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:51]  Charles Krinkeb: I am declaring this "OFfice Hour" a success mainly because the sim did not crash today. [11:51]  sacha Magne: :) [11:51] Nebadon: yea good stuff because it crashed many times right before the meeting [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: ano nobody was logged out! [11:52] Charles Krinkeb: shhhhh [11:52] Nebadon: but im 99% certain i know what is triggering it [11:52]  Hiro Protagonist: :) [11:52]  sacha Magne: for info, i will work on grid level commands [11:52]  Hiro Protagonist: ok kidz [11:52]  Nebadon: border crossing + login at same moment [11:52]  Hiro Protagonist: I gotta jet :) [11:52] Hiro Protagonist: good meeting [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: posting to the mailing list like you did is a good thing :) [11:52]  Nebadon: like im logging into Wright Plaza and Someone Elese is crossing from cameo into WP at same time [11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: bye hiro [11:52]  Hiro Protagonist: Hiro Protagonist waves [11:53]  Hiro Protagonist: good seeing you all again :) [11:53] sacha Magne: i will need help soon anyway :/ [11:53] Admin UCI: bye all [11:53] Teravus Ousley: take care [11:53] sacha Magne: bye [11:53] Teravus Ousley is Offline [11:53] daTwitch: sacha, if you ever need help locating things on the wiki, let me know I will be happy to assist [11:53] sacha Magne: :) [11:53]  Dahlia Trimble: Dahlia Trimble poofs too... bye all :) [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [11:54] sacha Magne: actually is to find way to retrieve the release number ;) [11:54]  Orion Shamroy: Query, how often and when do you guys hold office hours? Sorry, I'm still a bit of a newb here. :) [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: theres not auto rebake at this moment after relog. some are still gray [11:54] sacha Magne: i will focus on that 2morrow during my meeting [11:54] Charles Krinkeb: Thanks, all. I need to go too [11:54] Charles Krinkeb is Offline [11:54] sacha Magne: well, have fun all [11:55] daTwitch: at 12:00 Noon PST each tuesday and saturday :0 [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: bye [11:55] daTwitch: :) [11:55]  Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:55]  Orion Shamroy: Kewl. Thanks other worldly Twitch :) [11:55] daTwitch: :D [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: ok. see if i can get home. cya.. [11:55] daTwitch is also Hiro Protagonist [11:56] Nebadon: by everyone thanks for coming