Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-12

Visitor List: Nebadon Izumi Starky Rubble Jorge Zulaman Master Dubrovna Orion Hax Ideia Boa Patch Ferber Kaytie Kohime Woutch Verstraeten Charles Krinke Brent Seidel Snoopy Pfeffer Justin Clark-Casey Richardus Raymaker Teravus Ousley M1sha Dallin Kitto Flora Maria Korolov Aramis Soren Kanel Aloha tx Oh Jeff 1564 BlueWall Slade Star Design Total = 24 [09:54] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:54] Connected [09:54] Michelle Argus is Online [09:54] Maria Korolov is Offline [09:55] Compile successful [09:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:56] Connected [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: ok much better i think [09:56] Charles Krinke: I left my headset home, so you dont have to listen to my rants via voice today [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: looks like the video player stopped working [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: strange [09:57] Compile successful [09:57] Youtube Video Player v1.1: [09:57] Youtube Video Player v1.1: [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: there we go [09:57]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:57] Connected [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: weird [09:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: hello :) [09:58]  Maria Korolov is Online [09:58]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [09:58]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [09:58]  Nebadon Izumi: there we go [09:58]  Nebadon Izumi: now its working again [09:58]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [09:58]  Youtube Video Player v1.1: 1) Massive Attack ft. Mos Def-I Against I (made clip by RD from Blade 2 + lyrics) [09:58] Youtube Video Player v1.1: [09:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: :) ccol videos again? [09:58]  Snoopy Pfeffer: cool* [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ya the youtube thing script wasnt working [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure why [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: i reset it [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: its fine now [09:59]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:59]  Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok [09:59]  Connected [09:59]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I also have problems with some scripts after changing versions [09:59]  Richardus Raymaker is Offline [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm ok [09:59]  Snoopy Pfeffer: then Ihave t resetthese cripts [09:59]  Snoopy Pfeffer: scripts [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: im changing the channel [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont want people using this [10:00]  Snoopy Pfeffer: nice hehe [10:00]  Compile successful [10:00]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [10:00]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [10:00]  Ideia Boa: sorry [10:00]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:00]  Richardus Raymaker is Online [10:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: somewhere I have see that plaza before ;) [10:00]  Nebadon Izumi: no worries [10:00]  Nebadon Izumi: i just want this one to be for the meeting operators only [10:00]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [10:00]  Youtube Video Player v1.1: 1) Massive Attack ft. Mos Def-I Against I (made clip by RD from Blade 2 + lyrics) [10:00] Youtube Video Player v1.1: [10:00] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:00] Connected [10:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [10:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Justin [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: now its broken again [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: sigh [10:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello snoopy, hello folks [10:01] Compile successful [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi snoopy, nebadon. all [10:01] Patch Ferber: hi justin [10:01] Brent Seidel: Hello [10:01] Ideia Boa: hey [10:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: hell Brent [10:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: hello* [10:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: oh well [10:01] Brent Seidel: hell to you too ;-) [10:01]  Nebadon Izumi: its broken now [10:01]  Nebadon Izumi: its staying broken [10:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: that lag causes bad typing mistakes hehe [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i dunno [10:02]  Richardus Raymaker: im in some black void [10:02]  Brent Seidel: I know. [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: the video script is broken again now [10:02]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:02]  Connected [10:02]  Compile successful [10:02]  Snoopy Pfeffer: mono 2.4 or 2.5? [10:02]  Snoopy Pfeffer: or .net? [10:02]  Compile successful [10:02]  Youtube Video Player v1.1: This Prim is Clean...  [10:02]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [10:02]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [10:03]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server  0.6.4.9489  (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: grr [10:03]  Snoopy Pfeffer: with mono 2.5 and the new opensim vesions I have less of such script problems [10:03]  Richardus Raymaker: snoopy. how are your regions running. its seems mine crash/freeze/ dont react good at teleports after 14 hours or so. thats very bad comapred with the 48+ hours with 9395 [10:03]  Richardus Raymaker: can someone get me from 0.0.0 ? [10:03]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Rich [10:03]  Teravus Ousley is Online [10:03]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:03]  Connected [10:04]  Snoopy Pfeffer: and hello Charles, Orion and Master [10:04]  Compile successful [10:04]  Orion Hax: hello [10:04]  Richardus Raymaker: relog. [10:04]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [10:04]  Youtube Video Player v1.1:  [10:04]  M1sha Dallin: Hi [10:04]  Nebadon Izumi: qhq [10:04]  Nebadon Izumi: aha [10:04]  Nebadon Izumi: its the website [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: the resolves the youtube urls [10:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Teravus [10:04] Charles Krinke: Morning, Snoopy, and all. Thanks for coming to our "Office Hour". Hopefully it will not be a furball todqy. [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i changed services [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: now its working [10:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hello teravus [10:05] Ideia Boa: it's your shadows [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: no its youtubemp4.com website [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i think they are having latency issues [10:05] Richardus Raymaker is Online [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i switch back to tx ohs server [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: now its working [10:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: no what is there? :) [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think the youtubemp4 server is in japan [10:06]  Ideia Boa: soetimes it don't work for me too, it's not the script [10:06]  Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:06]  Nebadon Izumi: so its probably latency [10:06]  Nebadon Izumi: cause the URLs are not loading in browser either [10:06]  Snoopy Pfeffer: wb Rich [10:06]  Brent Seidel: I hope that's not an example of how these meetings run ;-) [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: ? Brent? [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: yes. where stuck on 0.0.0 [10:07] Brent Seidel: The guys on the video whaling on each other with swords. [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: oh [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: so we will discuss yesterday's issues only? ;) [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: i as just teting the video player [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt working [10:07]  Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:07]  Charles Krinke: Lets start with our normal first question. "Can we advance the 'recommended' version for this week?" [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: i just grabbed a url from youtube [10:07]  Teravus Ousley: I must relog! [10:07]  Teravus Ousley is Offline [10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: well i think the version this simulator is a nice safe place [10:08]  Snoopy Pfeffer: 9489 is good for me [10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i think 9489 is a good spot for the week [10:08]  Richardus Raymaker: ill ask again, are ther emore wher ethe region dont accept teleport after 14+ hours ? mine seems to not respond. not for my teleport. maby someone else need to look later today. before i restart [10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: as you all noticed i had to shut off groups [10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: we found some nasties [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: and i didnt want anyones regions to be damaged [10:08] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:08] Connected [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: so i just killed it really quick [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: one bug is fixed [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: one more to go [10:08]  Teravus Ousley is Online [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: then we might be able to turn it back on [10:08]  Snoopy Pfeffer: is the groups issue only having to do with permissions? [10:08] paulie Flomar is Online [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [10:09]  Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt respecting perms [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: i thnk 9498 feels betetr then 9489. [10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: in that case we could say: dont use it for permissions [10:09] Charles Krinke: any objections to r9489 for the "recommended" version for the next week. Remember, this version is mostly for those who do not wish to be sacrificed upon the bleeding edge. [10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: just for communications [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: right now i have to say dont use scriptgs [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: sorry not scirpts [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: groups [10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:09] M1sha Dallin: Richardus - mine have been up 21 hours with no problems - 9495 [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i would turn it of until we say so [10:09]  Nebadon Izumi: it could result in damage to your regions [10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: the osgrid one is off for everyone [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: up yes. but can you try to teleport later today to a region i cannot enter. [10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have reported a bug that appears when you reclaim group owned land [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: the dont crash. [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: but if your using mcortez server here on osgrid [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest you disable it [10:10]  Snoopy Pfeffer: you can only fix that in the database [10:10] M1sha Dallin: I just tp'd from there [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: if your not working directly with mcortez [10:10] paulie Flomar is Offline [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: Snoopy its worse than thaqt [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: someone could erase your prims [10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: really? [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: thats why its off [10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: just group owned prims? [10:10] Maria Korolov: hi guys [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: no [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: all your prims [10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh oh :( [10:11]  Snoopy Pfeffer: wow [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe yes [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: why i ripped the cord out of the wall on groups [10:11]  Snoopy Pfeffer: it is nasty [10:11]  Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: hm [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: were working on it [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: i might even have something later today [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: no promises though [10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: I also read what Melanie said on IRC [10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: it looks like some fundamental redesign might be good [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: the deleting all your prims is fixed [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: if your on head [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: no more worries about that issue [10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: splitting group permissions and group communications in the source code [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: the only issue left now [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: is anyone can hijack a group [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: become owner [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: kick everyone out [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: and make it their own [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: thats the next bug to be squashed [10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes hijacking a group is less of a problem I thing, if noone uses it for permissions [10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: think* [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:13]  Snoopy Pfeffer: till it is fixed in the code [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: but i would rather it be fixed [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: before we resume testing [10:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:13] Teravus Ousley: who's taking point on that? [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: mcortez and melanie [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: have been laying in perms fixes [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: the bad bug is fixed by mealnie [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: melanie [10:14] paela argus is Online [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: the one were you could erase a sim [10:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: Neb did you test it already? [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be working with mcortez later [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: to get past other issues in a timely fashion [10:14] Charles Krinke: More on groups? Can we move on? We can come back and talk about groups more after we get all the items on the table, and I think there are a few more. [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: sure [10:14] paulie Flomar is Online [10:15] Charles Krinke: I think one of the next issues is vendors selling at zero $ or 1$ things like the "beta boat" and "parcels on regions" [10:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: in general I see that residents like groups, so it would be cool to be able to enable it soon again [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya one thing brought to my attention [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: that could be semi problematic of removing the currency module [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: its minor [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: but you can not set a parcel of land for sale for 0L [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: unless you specify the avatars name [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: not a huge deal [10:16] paulie Flomar is Offline [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: but it pretty much kills land selling unless you know whos buying it [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: thats really the only thing that is a problem that i know of at the moment [10:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that is not nice, but acceptable for now [10:16] Charles Krinke: Even if the money is transferred outside the scope of the grid, we cannot have automatic transfers? [10:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi tx [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: we can [10:17] Richardus Raymaker: thats always so, i think its in sl the same way that you cannot sell land to everybody for 0L$ [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: if you drop the money module in [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: it works [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: its only if you dont add the currency module [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: that land sales to anyone is impossible [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you have to know their name [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: and set the land for sale to only them [10:17] Charles Krinke: Perhaps that is the next issue, and that is "Should we define some currency module testing on OSGrid to help keep the software going in the right direction?" [10:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: what about objects sales for L$0? [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: then you can set it for 0L [10:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: does that work? [10:17] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:17] Connected [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you can set objects for sale now [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: but [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you must change your OpenSim.ini [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: and [10:18] tx Oh: i'm happy with no money [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: you can only set it for 0L [10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: I need that at my shops [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: setting it for 1L [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: will give you a pop up [10:18]  Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: saying this region is not currency enabled [10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: perfect [10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: ) [10:18]  Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya diff the opensim.ini.example [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: the currency section [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: set it to true [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: the new option [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: then set for sale for 0L will work [10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: Neb, the ini on osgrid.org? [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: no [10:19]  Snoopy Pfeffer: ini example? [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: our release does not support it [10:19]  Starky Rubble: Docs would help especially since many have trouble with the forge/compiling process which is their only option [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: 9495 is required [10:19] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:19] Connected [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: so the svn example for 9495+ [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: will conatin what you need [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: once i make a new release our ini will have it [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: and i'll make sure its on by default [10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: Starky I have written something for Linux on my blog [10:19] Starky Rubble: cool [10:19] Michelle Argus is Offline [10:20] Charles Krinke: Haaaalllllppp. Volunteers helping write more "wiki-docs" needed desperately. We are being overwhelmed by the documentation monster. [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: hehehe [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:20]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: if you guys do test this [10:20] Brent Seidel: I can write documentation. [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: and have an extra 2 minutes [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: plase do a quick write up [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i wish i had the time [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: but i dont [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i have not tested any of the currency stuff [10:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have tried to add some links in the wiki but it did not work [10:21] Charles Krinke: Start with a "FAQ" entry if you wish. Nothing verbose if you dont have the time. At the least, give a clue for the next guy/gal along the path. [10:21] Michelle Argus is Online [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: we will be relying on all of you [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: to test / report / document it [10:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: you can't hear me? [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: doh [10:21] Teravus Ousley: newp [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: my voice volume was at 0 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:21] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: i hear you [10:21] Charles Krinke: We have no "documentation department". In fact we have no "departments" at all. So, all of this develoment, testing and documentation is at the discretion of volunteers. [10:22] Kitto Flora: 5 bars [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya if anyone here is looking for a job [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt have programming skills [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: DOCUMENT!!! [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: and gooo! [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:22] Charles Krinke: bad hours, no pay, lots of criticism and all the plywood boxen you can carry [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: if you need help getting started with wiki editing [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: just let me know [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: i can help you get started [10:23] Charles Krinke: I think the punchline here is we need more community help to document OpenSim as the monster gets more complicated each week. [10:23] Orion Hax: imagine never seeing anyone again over the moutian of paperwork [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: anything else you wanted to discuss today Charles? [10:24] Charles Krinke: Well, our success will eventually be determined by our ability to communicate all this techno-babble to each other and to new adopters. [10:24] Charles Krinke: I heard last night that HyperGrid gates were not working from Bri. Are others having problems with HyperGrid gates with recent revisions? [10:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:25] Richardus Raymaker: waiting for new gate. [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: say list [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Starky Rubble [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Jorge Zulaman [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Master Dubrovna [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Orion Hax [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Ideia Boa [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Patch Ferber [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kaytie Kohime [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Woutch Verstraeten [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinke [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Brent Seidel [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Snoopy Pfeffer [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: M1sha Dallin [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kitto Flora [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Maria Korolov [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Aramis Soren [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kanel Aloha [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: tx Oh [10:25]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Jeff 1564 [10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 21 [10:25] Maria Korolov: some of my gates work [10:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: what is the redesign about Diva starts? [10:26] Starky Rubble: I was expeimenting with them last night - they were fine [10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: will that cause major protocol changes [10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: ? [10:26] Charles Krinke: Diva is working on improving security related notions concerning HyperGrid [10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok :) [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: let me send you some shirts [10:26]  Charles Krinke: That will most likel causesome bmps in the road. [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: you get some bailout money with that shirt Justin? [10:27]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I think in general we would need a security audit before version 1.0 [10:27]  Richardus Raymaker: i freeze again again after teleport [10:27]  Teravus Ousley: :) [10:27] Charles Krinke: remember, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Sometimes 1 step forward, 2 steps back. [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer. [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats a folder of shirts justin [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer. [10:27] Teravus Ousley: Some times it's 3 steps forward and everyone around says, ooh.. we've never seen that before. [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer. [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: i did promise you at some point i would give you stuff [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer. [10:27] Charles Krinke: Teravus, Justin, Anything you wish to add to the smorgasboard on our overflowing table today? [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer. [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer. [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: there you go [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: so here ya go :) [10:28]  Ideia Boa: free shirts, uau [10:28]  Snoopy Pfeffer: cool vid :) [10:28] Teravus Ousley: Atomic Electron cloud ftw! [10:28] Starky Rubble: How about an overview of the refactoring project? [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: I don't think I need to add to the oveflow further [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure anyone here is really qualified to talk about the refactor [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: overflow [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: but if you are [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: please do speak up [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: mostly its security [10:29] Starky Rubble: heh [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: that i do know [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: but the explicit details [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i really am unsure [10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: is there some document discussing the planned final architecture? [10:29] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:29] Connected [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: the source code :P [10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: heeh [10:29] Starky Rubble: executive summary... [10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: like usual :) [10:29]  Charles Krinke: Ok, how do we divide and conquer the issues brought up today? [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: not yet no [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: so much will change [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: that by the time we finish documenting it [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: it wont be valid [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: there is no planned final architecture [10:30]  Charles Krinke: Shoot, Snoopy. We are making it up as we go along. [10:30]  Starky Rubble: the pace is daunting [10:30]  Starky Rubble: in a good way lol [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to keep up [10:31]  Charles Krinke: Like all of you, when something I like or depend upon stops working, I am frustrated. But yet, this project seems to keep on growing momentum. [10:31]  Richardus Raymaker: ok. it seems teleport freeze is something at my side [10:31]  Nebadon Izumi: especially when a bug gums up the gears [10:31] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:31] Connected [10:31] Maria Korolov: bring n a bunch of enemployabe collge stuents as interns to go around and write everything up [10:31]  Nebadon Izumi: ya might not be a bad idea [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: problem is documenting is time consuming [10:31] paela argus is Online [10:31] Maria Korolov: you guys are a non-profit no: advertise this. they'll be helping history be made. [10:31] Charles Krinke: I do want to re-iterate the goals of OSGrid a a moment as I heard some blogging that was mis-informed over the weekend. [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: and generally changes by the time you get it done [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: but we do need to try [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: its not a good excuse to not try [10:32] Brent Seidel: unemployeed aerospace engineers - they live on documentation. [10:32] Brent Seidel: I know, I'm one. [10:32] Snoopy Pfeffer: I am busy convincing a well know documentary filmer to add an outlook section to his sl documentary about the future of virtual worlds, including opensim [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:32] Charles Krinke: There are two goals to OSGrid. 1) Test, deploy, mantis, patch and improve OpenSim. 2) Develop a vibrant, long-term community. [10:32] Snoopy Pfeffer: and he is interested [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: if you can convince people to document that would be very nice. But generally. no-one does [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya [10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: most people are exicted about documenting [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: until 15 minutes in [10:33]  Nebadon Izumi: then we never see them ever again [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: It really has to be the people developing, reverse engineering to document takes extraordinary amounts of time [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah :) [10:33]  Charles Krinke: I would say that to the extent us testers can help the developers by documenting, we help the pace of development. After all,, most developers are allergic to documentation anyway. [10:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: only the bad ones :) [10:33] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that is the topic: most of us are developers lol [10:34] Teravus Ousley: midlife crisis [10:34] Teravus Ousley: always the high heels.. [10:34] Aramis Soren: what's the plan for r10000? anything special? [10:34] Teravus Ousley: why.. the high heels. [10:34] Starky Rubble: hehe [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, don't think neb gave me any high heels, surprisingly [10:34] paela argus is Offline [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: not sure about r10k plans [10:34] Charles Krinke: yes. Declare as 1.0, finish the project, go into Beta  [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: planning for r10k plans is hard [10:35] Orion Hax: be like M$ and go straight to RC [10:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: speaking of which, any plans to release 0.6.5? [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: considering 10k might be the worst bug we ever experience [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt be fun to celebrate that [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya never do know [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: I am sure there are more security issues that need to be checked before 1.0 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: but i think if we make it past 10k [10:35] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:35] Connected [10:35] Aramis Soren: no but something to pat the devs on the back would be nice [10:35] Charles Krinke: Good point. "How do we get to a 0.6.5 with comfort from a majority of folks here?" [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it worthy of celebrating [10:36] paela argus is Online [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: any idea how to get some independent security guys to have a look? [10:36] Aramis Soren: a day off? a day to actually Play with os? [10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: you're breaking up Mr T! [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: ya im not planning a relase today [10:36] paela argus is Offline [10:36] Brent Seidel: You might want to talk to the OpenBSD guys about security audits. [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: we need to fix groups [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: then i will do a relase [10:36] Starky Rubble: yes [10:36] Brent Seidel: They might be able to provide some pointers. [10:36] Teravus Ousley: grodowns [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes groups should have priority before releasing anything [10:37] Charles Krinke: My opinion is that by using OpenSim in a live grid such as OSgrid, we expose many more security issues (and fix them) then any "pontificating consultants" are worth. [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have time to help with groups [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: cool snoopy i think mcortez needs volunteers [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: #osgroups [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: for those interested in working with mcortez [10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest if your not working with him [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: shut off groups [10:38] Teravus Ousley: unless of course.. if all your content is freely available and you have a really recent backup of your region :) [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: and when im comfortable i'll anounce when its safe again [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: relatively safe anyway [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:38]  Charles Krinke: Ok, to balance this whole meeting out: "Is there any good news today?" [10:38]  Starky Rubble: hehe [10:39]  Nebadon Izumi: this region hasnt crashd yet? [10:39]  paela argus is Online [10:39]  Nebadon Izumi: hows that for good news [10:39]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:39]  Charles Krinke: I would like to hear from anyone that has not been able to get a word in edgewise. [10:39]  Snoopy Pfeffer: my regions run very stable :) [10:39] Maria Korolov: charles: yes. I came here from a 9395 region. so my TP wrks! [10:39] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline [10:39] Charles Krinke: coolness, Maria [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: maria yes [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think you can get back though [10:39] Maria Korolov: charles: and it's been up for a week, zero downtime. [10:40] Aramis Soren: how's the new asset server looking, big difference? [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:40] Maria Korolov: well, i can't have verything :-) [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: new asset services are holding up awesome [10:40]  paela argus is Offline [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: there is a stats board behind everyone [10:40]  Richardus Raymaker: i have seen that some still use /open port 8895. sofar i know its not in use anymore. so thats a bad point on wiki [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: showing the stats of the asset services [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ah yes Richardus [10:40]  Maria Korolov: yes -- that's th other good news. OSGrib Business Center is up on 89, and it just FLIES. [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: the wiki needs a fixing for that im sure [10:40]  paela argus is Online [10:40]  Charles Krinke: I would like to urge all to look at the graphs of Wright Plaza and osgrid.org performance on the wall behind us, thanks to some "Nebadonic" efforts. They provide a very useful perspective. [10:41] Charles Krinke: Maria might like to do something similar on "OSgrid Business Center" [10:41] Maria Korolov: OSG BWC has been up for two days straight withno downtime. :-)9489... [10:41] Charles Krinke: Along with "graffiti board" and "html-on-a-prim" demoes for business-types. [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: what kind of visitor counts are you seeing maria? [10:42]  Maria Korolov: chares: yes. we are looking for business tools.. we have a business supppy center we can put them in [10:42]  Maria Korolov: neb: we've had 2-4 visitors every morning during business hours, plus more later on htroughout the day [10:42]  BlueWall Slade is Online [10:42]  Charles Krinke: "graffiti board" is in the library, written by Justin. "html-on-a-prim" is available on the osgrid.org forums. [10:42]  Maria Korolov: chalres: we aso put up a vendor expo area, but vendors to put booths with graphics and hand-outs [10:42]  Starky Rubble: I I tp'ed and HG'ed there yesterday several times from various places including to and fro from my 9500 region a few times [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: cool im glad its running well anyway [10:43] Ideia Boa: crash [10:43] Richardus Raymaker: need to look after this on welcome area [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i need to script this couch so when i run past [10:43] Maria Korolov: i havent donea big marketing campaign yet though because of stability issues [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i can trigger a crowd wave [10:43] Maria Korolov: maybe next week [10:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: Samsara gets about 100 uniq visitors during 2 days. during busy times it restarts about every 4 hours, otherwise it runs without restarts [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: cool [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: i reset the visitor list here before meeting [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: it was showing 89 people i think [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: for last 3-4 days [10:44] paela argus is Offline [10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool [10:44] Starky Rubble: Snoopy: Samsara- Mono? [10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: looks like my shop is a busy spot in osgrid := [10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [10:45]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: heh i tell everyone to go to samsara [10:45]  Snoopy Pfeffer: mono 2.5 [10:45]  Starky Rubble: ok [10:45]  Richardus Raymaker: still on mono 2.4 [10:45]  Charles Krinke: The network throughput graph in the bottom left corner shows the throughput for our meeting and is worth a look by anyone interested in network throughput. [10:45]  Maria Korolov: snoopy; i'm going t put u a boad at the business center. i'll include a link to your shop. [10:45]  Aramis Soren: whats the stats url, still hasn't shown for me here [10:45]  Snoopy Pfeffer: we have much more land here compared to sl :) [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/stats [10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool thanks Maria [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for the webserver / UGIM stats [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://assets.osgrid.org/stats [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for the asset server stats [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://plaza02.osgrid.org/stats [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for this simulator [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: did you check my blog http://snoopypfeffer.wordpress.com ? [10:47] Michelle Argus is Online [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: it helps with Linux nstalltions [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: and also covers using Monit for service monitoring [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Justin [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: your like 7 foot tall [10:48] Charles Krinke: Anything to bring up from anyone that we did not cover yet? [10:48] Richardus Raymaker: there's one problem. all the websites are so around everywhere that you not find them back :O [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya anyone has anything they want to talk about [10:48] Maria Korolov: :-) [10:48]  Nebadon Izumi: now would be the time :) [10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think we really have a problem with documentation [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: many pages are not referenced from the top [10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: like the new extensions [10:49] Ideia Boa: i can help, translation to portuguese [10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: ppl cannot find it [10:49]  Brent Seidel: I'll see if I can type a few words before I drift away ;-) [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: Snoopy feel free to add to the opensimulator.org wiki [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: anyone can change it [10:49]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I will try again :) [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: if your planning something drastic [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: please just let us know [10:49] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:49] Connected [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: we can discuss it so your not wasting your time [10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have tried to add something on the News page [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: having it all undone by a admin [10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: but it did not accept my changes [10:50] Brent Seidel: I would like to add release notes based on the SVN history. Would the copyrights (if any) permit that? [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: did you register? [10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ok [10:50]  Snoopy Pfeffer: and I was logged in [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: well try again [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: if its a problem i'll check into it [10:50]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I saw my changes [10:50] Charles Krinke: I see no issue, Brent [10:50] Teravus Ousley: was it the grid page? [10:50] Michelle Argus is Online [10:50] Brent Seidel: OK. Thanks, [10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: but afterwards they were gone when I came back [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: its possible some pages are moderated [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: check the history [10:50] Teravus Ousley: there are.. or were.. a few pages that are locked [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: it will tell you what happened [10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes probably that is moderated [10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: probably this one [10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [10:51]  Charles Krinke: Complaints? Recall petitions? Fire all and get new personalities? [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:51]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: if you need moderated pages changed [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: i suggest talking with Sdague or Adam [10:51]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:51]  Connected [10:51]  Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: or me [10:51]  Snoopy Pfeffer: btw I tried to contact Adam the last 2 days [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: i can not change it [10:51]  Aramis Soren: did i miss the "recommended version" for the week at start of meeting? still 9395 here seems ok [10:52]  Nebadon Izumi: but im good at getting attention [10:52]  Snoopy Pfeffer: it is so difficult to find time with him [10:52]  Charles Krinke: 9489, I think. is that right, Nebadon? [10:52]  Nebadon Izumi: ya if you strike out on them [10:52]  Nebadon Izumi: come see me [10:52]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im happy with 9489 [10:52] Richardus Raymaker: hope 94xx gets just as stable as the old 9395 version with uptime. i need to reboot 94xx more. [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats this weeks happy # [10:53] BlueWall Slade: ++ [10:53] Richardus Raymaker: im a bit more happy with 9498 [10:53] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:53] Connected [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok well i will be updating by the weekend i suspect [10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: or "lucky number"? ;) [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: just hang in there [10:53]  Maria Korolov: except for Tor theTP robelms -- ou can' TP from 9489 to earlier regions [10:53]  Aramis Soren plays 9489 on the lottery [10:53]  Charles Krinke: The 'recommended' is merely to advise those who do not wish to be on the "bleeding edge" and can change each week. It will always be a moving target. [10:53]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes hehe it's a bit like lottery Aramis [10:54]  Maria Korolov: so if you HAVE o connct tect t older regions, you'll have to wait fo them to upgrde [10:54]  Aramis Soren: right but it there is a tp cutoff, i should update later then [10:54]  Michelle Argus is Online [10:54]  Maria Korolov: aramis: that's y thining with my region [10:54]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:54]  Connected [10:55]  Richardus Raymaker: do older versions break new versions ? [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: shooudlnt [10:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye Teravus [10:55] BlueWall Slade: se ya Teravus [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: for a short bit it did [10:55] Charles Krinke: There will come a time when the pace of updates may slow down for some regions on OSgrid. It appears we have lots of changes recently, but when the checkins slow down in a few months, we make wish to 'update' more slowly. [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: but we have gotten past that [10:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Teravus [10:55] Teravus Ousley: see ya! [10:55] Charles Krinke: bye, Teravus [10:55] Teravus Ousley is Offline [10:56] Richardus Raymaker: how are the svn stats looking now nebadon ? [10:56] Ideia Boa: good work Teravus [10:56] Richardus Raymaker: you hav esome list.. ? [10:56] Charles Krinke: Anything you guys/gals can do to help BlueWall and Nebadon not be deluged by support on the #osgrid channel would help also. We need more support help for new users on both #opensim and #osgrid. [10:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:56] Connected [10:56] Michelle Argus is Online [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of stats do you mean? [10:57] Aramis Soren: ok can join #osgrid also i guess [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: you monitor how many servers are runninbg bwich version [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh thats borked at the moment [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have good stats [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i have to fix the website [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: havent had a chance yet [10:57] M1sha Dallin: Help there when I can Charles [10:58] Richardus Raymaker: ok [10:58]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:58] Connected [10:59] Charles Krinke: This has been a good meeting. It 'feels' like we are communicating, and thats good. [10:59] BlueWall Slade: Thanks, everybody, for helping us pull through this past weekend. [10:59] Richardus Raymaker: i think everybody do. only killerfor me with help is the loopback problem [10:59] Charles Krinke: Maybe we cannot always have ready answers, but as humans, we have to keep communicating to make it through this insanity [10:59] Richardus Raymaker: there's no trick for that can be used for everybody ? [10:59] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:59] Connected [10:59] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles :) [10:59]  M1sha Dallin: yep - my router supports it so I don't know how else it is solved [10:59]  Aramis Soren: no really depends on router [11:00]  Aramis Soren: some are using home routers ,some are linux box routers etc [11:00]  Snoopy Pfeffer: but we really can reduce the need for support if we all put more effort in documenting [11:00]  Richardus Raymaker: it seems there enough routers that dont support it [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: are we talking about loopback? [11:00]  Aramis Soren: yes [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: i know alot of Netgear routers [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: dont support it [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: netgear is bad in that regard [11:00]  Charles Krinke: Ok, I need to go pretend I am working. My heart is with OpenSim, but gotta pay them dumb bills. [11:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I know that other open source projects even have sub projects for documentation [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye charles. I'm going to go too [11:01] Charles Krinke is Offline [11:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks [11:01] Connected [11:01] Aramis Soren: std linksys 4-port notwireless is fine here luckily [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye charles [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Linksys and D-Link are good [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i use D-Link [11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Justin [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Netgear is just bad [11:01] Aramis Soren: yeah we had a dlink up for 2 years on game server, pushed alot of packets thru that one [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: their non commercial routers are bad [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I need to go [11:02]  Aramis Soren: this was 704 i think, old style with metal case not cheap plastic one [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: some renters call lol [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok Snoopy [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: see you [11:02] BlueWall Slade: see ya Charles [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have joined the groups irc channel [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool :) [11:02]  BlueWall Slade: see ya Snoopy [11:02]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server  0.6.4.9489  (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: lets discuss how to proceed with groups there [11:02]  Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [11:02] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:02] Connected [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok sounds good [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok see you all :) [11:02]  Snoopy Pfeffer: bye [11:03]  Aramis Soren: cool no crashes today here woohoo! [11:03]  Michelle Argus is Online [11:03]  Richardus Raymaker: ssst [11:03]  Snoopy Pfeffer: :) [11:03] Aramis Soren: later all [11:04] Ideia Boa: only my Hippo crash 3 times [11:04] M1sha Dallin: Time for me to plant some trees :-) [11:04]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:04]  Connected [11:04]  M1sha Dallin: bye all [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: bye M1sha