Chat log from the meeting on 2012-02-07

[11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Happy Tuesday, everyone. :-) [11:04] Eliopod Beaumont: hi Justin [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus, eliopod, folks [11:05] Taarna Welles: Hi Justin [11:05] dan banner: hey justin [11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi justin [11:05] dan banner: justin have you looked at 5878 yet? [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: that's the first I've seen of the mantis, though I have seen the bug in another context [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: that's interesting data [11:07] dan banner: ya it tends to crash a mesh viewer hard [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe the problem goes away on a simulator restart but that's not a solution [11:07] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:08] dan banner: on restart the whole build vanished except for 1 prim [11:08] dan banner: and yes it went away [11:09] dan banner: maybe because it was restarted and had not been stored yet idk [11:09] Anastasios Aurotharius: hello everyone :) [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I don't think the data manages to get to the db [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: something is going wrong further up - I would suspect a thread race [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I will look at that, though not today [11:09] dan banner: this person has created this problem several times in the last week [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: does it seem to be just with particular viewers? [11:10] dan banner: ive seen it happen when people use imprudence too [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: has it just started occuring recently do you think? [11:11] dan banner: no its been doing it a while first time was at a speedbuild when someone linked their build [11:11] dan banner: maybe several months now [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: where that build sculpts ? lol [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:12] BlueWall Slade: is a script making the linkset? [11:12] dan banner: its possible i have only noticed it since using a mesh viewer more often [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I saw it once in another context a few weeks ago [11:12] dan banner: i dont think so bluewall [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I didn't have it associated with a server log mesage though, so that's a good poitn to start investigating [11:12] dan banner: and it doesnt always happen [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: classic rqace :) [11:13] dan banner: very random although the user in the log has caused it to occur more often than anyone i think [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: that is interesting [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: might be viewer or the way they build or some combination of factors [11:14] dan banner: for like a week or more its always been this one user and the one build they are working on [11:14] dan banner: been happening a couple times a day sometimes [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:14] dan banner: and yes its possible it could be they are trying to link things too fast or something idk for sure [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: there's not really such a thing as "too fast", though certain message patterns could cause problems [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: this is something thatwill have to be fixed in opensim [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully I can take a look tomorrow [11:15] BlueWall Slade: was my eyeball chasing them around when it happened? [11:15] dan banner: yes it really messes things up for mesh viewers [11:15] dan banner: no bluewall [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: so the viewer message doesn't apear in non-mesh viewers? [11:16] dan banner: but there are followers off in the ocean [11:16] BlueWall Slade: I think they're dead now [11:16] BlueWall Slade: anyway - is the linkset really large? [11:16] dan banner: i dont think so justin it seems non mesh viewers ignore the problem better than mesh viewers do [11:17] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Titanium has mentioned to me that the Macserver in Cambridge is having issues shutting down sometimes now on 7.3 I think [11:17] dan banner: yes bluewall its a good size but ive seen it with 30 prim linksets before too [11:17] BlueWall Slade: ok, I'll look for it on my grid too [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: Any idea what the trigger might be? Is it when creating a new link set, joinging two linksets togetherm etc? [11:18] BlueWall Slade: if you can identify any sequence of events that make it happen would be grat too [11:18] BlueWall Slade: < great [11:18] Taarna Welles: I can't run the latest OSGrid software update. In the viewer(s) the avatar frees or moves very slow. Anyone else who has the same problem? [11:18] dan banner: i had it happen once i believe when i added something to a linkset [11:19] BlueWall Slade: that issue has been fixed in master [11:19] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: my bad...it's the simulator...gets error: Shutting down finalizer thread timed out [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: A single prim or another linkset? [11:19] dan banner: i think it was when i added another prim to the linkset justin [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:20] dan banner: but ive done the same steps trying to repeat the error and its not very reproducable [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: taarna: there was a performance regressio nthat has been fixed in master [11:21] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: We have a very reproduceable error [11:21] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: every [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: yeah, some kind of thread race I suspect [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. this days i always unlink first and then relink everything again with new prims [11:21] dan banner: its just on occasion, but i will link linksets, and single prims and see if i can figure out exactly when it happens [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: titanium: what error is that? [11:21] Taarna Welles: @Justin, understood [11:21] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: on the mac latest mono [11:21] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: if an avatar has been on the simulator [11:22] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: it wont shut down [11:22] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: Shutting down finalizer thread timed out. [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: what version of opensim? [11:22] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: 0.7.2 [11:22] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: release [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.3 contains a change that will probably fix that [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, when 0.7.3 is released [11:23] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: I'll grab a copy and test it [11:23] Titanium.Jones @gridnirvana.net:8002: thanks [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yw [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i finally got a prim mirror, if anyone is interested [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you can grab a copy in front of me [11:24] Eliopod Beaumont: when do u expect to release 0.7.3? [11:24] Jalen Optera: oh, yay Neb [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neb [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: eilopod: hopefully end of month [11:25] BlueWall Slade: it's L$10 [11:25] Eliopod Beaumont: ty:) [11:25] Arielle Popstar: i need more money [11:25] BlueWall Slade: thanks [11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev         130b1c0: 2012-02-05 20:47:02 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: there ya go [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: worser, how can i get L$ here ? [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, someone took my OS$100,000 while I wasn't looking [11:25] dan banner: you cant rich [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: lol [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: lol, i know. but i have only o$ here [11:26] BlueWall Slade: somebody foxed the PayPal module to not screw with neighbor regions [11:26] BlueWall Slade: fixed [11:26] dan banner: i actually have new people ask me that all the time "who took my money??" [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:26] Taarna Welles: lol [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: lol dan, thats new one for me [11:27] BlueWall Slade: some guy gave a concert on Lbsa Saturday over the voice thing [11:27] Jalen Optera: he came back on Sunday, was very good [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: cool [11:27] BlueWall Slade: hehe [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: cool [11:28] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Anyone read or tested Irrlich engine with ODE? [11:28] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: curious [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: never heared about that one [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim issues today? [11:31] BlueWall Slade: do you want to geta punch list together for the 0.7.3 release on the wiki? [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, either friday or early next week [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: or that can start at any time - I just wanted to fix the worse bugs before doing rc1 [11:32] BlueWall Slade: you missed the telehubs and land for sale on the map in your weekly [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: oops [11:32] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: fyi to read if anyone's interested: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/features/ [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: are the telehubs working now ? [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry :) [11:33] BlueWall Slade: I want to talk to Melanie to see what we can do to get the telehubs working with multiple region estates so one can be assigned for a group of regions [11:33] BlueWall Slade: and to get them to multiplex new logins across the spawnpoints [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: you mean 1 estate more opensim instances ? because thats really usefull [11:34] BlueWall Slade: + we need to support the ossl teleports in some way with the teleport routing [11:34] BlueWall Slade: yes RiRa [11:35] BlueWall Slade: the maps show the land for sale as yellow patches now too [11:35] BlueWall Slade: how was the conference, justin? [11:35] BlueWall Slade: a lot of people there? [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: about 20. It was cool - get to talk to interesting people [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: What conference was that? [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: just the online nvwn event - wasn't really a conference, more a seminar : [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: on another topic, for the 0.7.3 release I'm thinking of making AppDomainLoading = false for linux but default but true for Windows [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: since Windows has problems with that set to false - though I really don't know why [11:37] dan banner: would be nice to have an autodetect option [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: I saw if i remeber right it where set true in defaults. [11:38] BlueWall Slade: we can pick up the platform at runtime [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: that starts to get tricky but I might think about that [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe an auto option in the config [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: how easy can yoiu detect operating system, and set it automatic with override as option ? [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: os detect is already being done for ODE but I'm not sure how foolproof it is [11:39] BlueWall Slade: is that done in the xml files? [11:39] BlueWall Slade: (i think they're xml) [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: no, it's effectively done using Util.ReadEtcIssue [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: although actually [11:40] dan banner: ya true/false/auto would be the way to do it [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: from Util.GetOperatingSystemInformation one can get platform fairly reliably [11:41] dan banner: since some people with windows and limited scripts and memory do use false [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I still dont' understand why Windows fails though [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Windows seems to have a problem loading lots of assemblies into one AppDomain [11:42] BlueWall Slade: lol, maybe they still have some 16 bit code in there?? [11:42] dan banner: heh [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a puzzle, because it should only be limited by system resources [11:43] BlueWall Slade: I'm not sure, but I think the appdomain things are more of an issue on Linux [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: and I really would have thought that loading every script into its own AppDomain would take more memory [11:43] BlueWall Slade: huge amounts if memory if it is false [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: No, it's much better on linux with it false [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: and scripts load massively faster if they don't all get their own AppDomain [11:43] BlueWall Slade: ok, I hvae it backwards [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think so :) [11:44] BlueWall Slade: hehe [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: but for some reason the same setting on Windows causes script loading to fail [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, do you know if hg is compatible between opensim 0.7.2 and current dev master? [11:46] Arielle Popstar: how about a fix for the problem that only some routers allow hg jumps to local grid/standalones from an acccount on an external grid? [11:46] BlueWall Slade: no, I haven't tested those things [11:47] BlueWall Slade: the profiles might be an issue with them? [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle, you mean loppback problem ? [11:47] BlueWall Slade: Andrew - I need to make a fix for V2/V3 users in the profiles. [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: we'll see, I'm sure [11:47] BlueWall Slade: lol, yes we will [11:48] BlueWall Slade: we might ask smxy to test that [11:50] Arielle Popstar: not loopback Rira [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know, it's Diva who knows about hg issues [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: in the main [11:51] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:51] Arielle Popstar: well she isnt addressing it [11:51] Arielle Popstar: been out there for a year and a half [11:51] Arielle Popstar: and other hg issues are being addressed [11:51] BlueWall Slade: I have learned a little about HG in some of the work I've been into lately. But, there's still a lot about it that I dont' know [11:52] dan banner: justin: i made 20 npc yesterday and removed them and the sim was pretty useless after that [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I keep hearing that [11:52] dan banner: had to restart it [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: that's another thin gI intend to look into [11:53] dan banner: failed so bad it didnt even finish removing them [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: but that was working before i think [11:53] dan banner: yes it used to be fine [11:53] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey sighs [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: any feel for when this became a problem? last week, last month? [11:55] dan banner: i've had 40 or 50 npc and was able to mass remove them and the sim was stable afterwards [11:56] dan banner: now it dies after removing around 10 npc.. not sure when it bacme a problem [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it has to be real recent [11:56] dan banner: i suspect in the last month maybe [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be very helpful to know when it changed [11:58] dan banner: i'll see if i can figure out where it breaks [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: why is opensi,ualtor.org always so terrible slow [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: thanks [12:00] BlueWall Slade: do you know how to use git bisect, dan? [12:00] dan banner: vaguely [12:01] dan banner: i have all the previous builds still intact so i can get an idea [12:01] BlueWall Slade: when you get ready to look at that, ping me on irc [12:01] dan banner: okay ty [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: there is aposting on forums [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: that explains it [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: http://forums.osgrid.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3318 [12:02] BlueWall Slade: we've had some database migrations lately. But, I think everythgn will still run [12:02] dan banner: thanks nebadon [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off. See you later, folks [12:02] BlueWall Slade: bye justin, and thanks [12:03] Taarna Welles: Bye Justin [12:03] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin