Chat log from the meeting on 2016-11-01

[11:05] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I have a quick IRC question - do folks pretty much stay logged-in all the time? [11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: It's the land of the lurkers, yup [11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Ask a question, and someone may answer two hours later. Heh. [11:06] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: huh interesting. IRC is pretty lightweight though so staying logged-in isn't an issue? [11:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Nope, not really. I use weechat as a relay on one of my linux boxes, so even if I don't have a client open, I'm there. [11:08] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: need to think on that... guess I should figure out what a relay is. [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: It's a sort of bouncer, if you've heard of that. A fancy proxy that keeps you in IRC, and also keeps all the chat logged for you to see if you're not currently running a proper client. [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: James, If my computer is on I have an IRC client that runs automatically. I may or may not be paying attention to the IRC channels to which my client is connected. [11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd venture that is simply what most people do. I love complicating my life. ;) [11:10] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ok - lol.  complexity adds interest, eh? [11:10]  Marcus Llewellyn: It does for me. lol [11:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: I responded to one comment directed to me as much as 8 hours or so later. :) [11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah, that's prettyy much the culture in the opensim channels. [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. I have had a ping response that was about a day later. :) [11:12] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: oh - how is a message directed to a person - just by name? [11:12]  Marcus Llewellyn: A private one? [11:12]  James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: uh, I don't think so. [11:13]  Marcus Llewellyn: Oh, the conventions vary, but usually just start a libe with the nick you want to get attention from. [11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: Just say the persons name (optionally followed by comma or colon) [11:13]  Marcus Llewellyn: Many people have their clients set to alert them if their full nickname appears in chat. [11:14]  James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: OK, sorta like a twitter @tag then. [11:14]  Marcus Llewellyn: Often, someone will just  "ping" to see if someone's alive. "ping MarcusLlewellyn" for example, and wait a reasonable amount of time for a response. [11:14]  Marcus Llewellyn: Like knocking on their door. ;) [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: If I ping someone is because I want to pass on info or ask them something. [11:16] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: OK wild - and in Hexchat there's some options by right-click on a name. huh, thanks! [11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah. That's sorta our equivalent of a twitter @. [11:17] Kayaker Magic: I went to the MOSES meeting on Friday and have some interesting things to report [11:17] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hey, it's Ubit! :) [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Go ahead and get this meeting back on its main topic. :) [11:18] Ubit Umarov: Ubit ?? where ? where? [11:18] Kayaker Magic: 1) The MOSES WEB viewer is going to be view only, no build tools. If you need to build, get a real viewer. [11:19]  Marcus Llewellyn: Makes sense, really. [11:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: Interesting. What benefits will their viewer offer vs a "real" viewer? [11:19]  Kayaker Magic: 2) MOSES is gleefully throwing out the LL protocol already, so their viewer is not going to be SL or OpenSim compatible. [11:20] Kayaker Magic: I should have asked, but I think they are going to hack a copy of firestorm to match, to be able to build there. [11:20] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hmm [11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: And since they're using  Halcyon, we prolly can't even have a compatible module to support their protocol. [11:21] Kayaker Magic: So if we want to try their WEB viewer here, someone is going to have to port their protocol to a version of OpenSim [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: If they do that then it is unlikely they will be able to pass along any future code changes for OpenSim. [11:22] Ubit Umarov: about that i can only say i can't say anything about something that does not exist for me [11:22]  Kayaker Magic: 3) MOSES has a vision of moving away from prims, requiring everything to be made externally from mesh. [11:23]  Ubit Umarov: when there is something that is under a license we can use... we will see [11:23]  Andrew Hellershanks: That rather explains item 1 [11:23]  James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: indeed [11:23]  Marcus Llewellyn: They're giving up a lot of content, or at least making it harder to import, but I can understand why they'd make that choice., [11:24]  Kayaker Magic: there are tools for converting existing content to Mesh to get started. [11:24]  Marcus Llewellyn nods. [11:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: Their viewer needs the ability to move things around and scale them at least. [11:25]  Ubit Umarov: well if they are doing something diferent, then mb is no longer a discution for opensim [11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Here come neb [11:25] Ubit Umarov: like the SL new thing isn't [11:25]  James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: thought the same Ubit [11:26] Ubit Umarov: but i realy prefer to see real hard facts.. not words in the wind... [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Just going with the Halcyon codebase makes them estranged from us in a significant way. [11:26] Kayaker Magic: If we add their protocol for their viewers, we would have several better viewer options than we do today. [11:27] Kayaker Magic: A viewer made for something closer to, if not the same as, OpenSim. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: we need to see their viewer first [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: before determing if its worth the effort [11:27] Marcus Llewellyn: I do think independence from the LL viewer is a good thing. But we need someone who's interested in implementing the protocol. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I have done extensive testing on WebGL [11:27] Ubit Umarov: yeap we need to see real things.. not words [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and I can tell you right here right now, 75% of OpenSim regions will not work in WebGL [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: no matter what framework you choose [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: I'm testing with Unity3D [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and most regions i test just will not work in webgl [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: WebGL really sucks [11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: You're just holding it wrong. ;) [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: but if they can some how manage to proove me wrong we will definitely review what they do, but we need to see something first [11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: before anything can be decided or evaluated [11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: until then not much to say really [11:29]  Kayaker Magic: Neb: I've been reporting what I heard at the MOSES meeting Friday. [11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:30]  Marcus Llewellyn: They've made it clear that *their* project goals outweigh any broader priorities that something like the OpenSimulator project seeks to support. [11:30]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.9.1.0 Dev        7c4f2b0: 2016-10-25 20:44:41 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: Using their protocol will be more complicated if they don't include building in-world. A viewer would need to support their protocol and the existing protocol for building operations. [11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: I definitely would love to see a webgl interface, but unfortunately until WebGL2 and Web Assembly come [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i dont see it happening [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: another problem i see with WebGL is avatars [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that's a difficult one to solve for sure [11:31] Ubit Umarov: from what i have seen they possibly will add a translator middle thing [11:31] Ubit Umarov: like those things to play games on tablets etc [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: did they give any kind of indication of when they might have something to see [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: even just a demo [11:32] Ubit Umarov: but well not my concern now, until that is something really working and under a civilian software license [11:32] Kayaker Magic: No, vague on that... [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: well I do hope they get something to show sooner than later [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: my preference in the meantime is to dull the excitment [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: hype right now isn't healthy [11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: MOSES isn't known for vaporware from what I've seen. But they've also become the new realXtend... forked off so far that they're ceasing to have much in relation to us. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: for now i just would like to see kokuaOS moving on [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: you mean Improving Ubit? [11:34] Ubit Umarov: it's still in early stages and with a few problems [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea I need to download the latest and give it a try [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i downloaded it a month or two ago but didnt use it too much [11:34] Ubit Umarov: well not big problems.. [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I'm mostly still just using singularity [11:35] Ubit Umarov: most where fixed on singu.. so its mainly porting :) [11:35] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Will the only VWorlds with in-world building become Opensim and Minecraft? [11:36]  Ubit Umarov: no one likes in-world building [11:36]  Ubit Umarov: bc thats a reason for low performance [11:36]  James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: :( no?  OK [11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: in world building really does mean low performance builds [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately [11:36] Ubit Umarov: i mean companies.. not me and you :) [11:36] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: OH  [11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: unless someone can manage to incorporate like blender or something into their interface [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: prims are definifely one of the reasons webgl will suck for opensim [11:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: Um... that's not likely to happen. That sort of building is too complicated to add on to a standard viewer. [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: a cube in opensim is 96 verts? [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: something like that [11:37]  Ubit Umarov: nahh [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: when it could just be 4 vertice [11:37]  James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Is the same true for scripting in non-prim worlds? [11:37]  Ubit Umarov: it needs a few more [11:38]  James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: eg. users can't script behaviors? [11:38]  Ubit Umarov: for example the CUT faces need to be there to make texturing easier [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: What's the reason for it being turned in to 96 verts? Viewer, back end code, or the need to be able to support prim torture? [11:38] Ubit Umarov: not sure about that 96 verts [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its 54 verts [11:39] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: "prim torture" [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: 96 edges [11:39] Ubit Umarov: at least without skew [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: 48 triangles [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: for a single cube [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you could make the same cube in blender [11:39] Ubit Umarov: but that can be made as needed [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: 8 verts / 18 edges / 12 triangles [11:39] Ubit Umarov: physics boxes are the same [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and you figure many builds have 100s or 1000s of cubes in them [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: you can see how inefficient prims become [11:40] Ubit Umarov: simple box == physics primitive [11:40] Ubit Umarov: tortured box == mesh with complexity depending on torture [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: yea it gets even worse for sure then [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a Torus is horrible [11:40] Ubit Umarov: yeap torus is the worse [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: 450 triangles [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: in a prim torus [11:41] Ubit Umarov: but that isn't much of a problem [11:41] Ubit Umarov: is just coding [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: well no here in opensim its not so bad [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but if your converting that to a mesh for webgl [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its super nasty [11:42] Ubit Umarov: in fact just porting dahlia meshmerizer [11:42] Ubit Umarov: it has the visual part generator still ( that i removed on ubMesh..) [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Is Collada format a good choice for mesh formats or is there a better format? It would be nice if some other formats were supported. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: yea Dahlia wrote a webgl viewer for Encitra, and it works ok [11:43]  Ubit Umarov: collada is heavy i think [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but performance was really slow [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: json is the best [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: for webgl [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: there is a new format coming [11:43] Ubit Umarov: games use one from nvidia.. or 3ds or another i don't remember :) [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Support for STEP format would be nice as an alternative [11:44]  Ubit Umarov: well LL viewer is a optimized viewer [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: Unity generates json i think [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: webgl mostly boils down to javascript at the moment [11:44]  Ubit Umarov: a lot better than what ppl now say [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: yea LL viewer is pretty good [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: it can access a lot more memory too though [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: webgl is limited to a total of around 512mb in the web browser [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: before you start making things incompatible with about 90% of the planet [11:45]  Ubit Umarov: it does contain specific optimizations... [11:45]  Ubit Umarov: like the 16bit resolution on meshs etc [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: things like raycasting suck in webgl [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: its so sloow [11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: i can show you a demo of a opensim model i put into three.js one sec [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: http://dev.4dialog.com/Webviewer2/ [11:48] Ubit Umarov: well i whould just like current viewers did had the issues they have now bc of blind following of LL code [11:48] Kayaker Magic: Raycasting sucks HERE! Especially on vrs. Why is that ubit? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that model above is not reading from opensim [11:48] Kayaker Magic: I raycast a short distance and it takes 1.2 SECONDS in a var. [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but it was created in opensim [11:48] Ubit Umarov: it should not be that long [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i have dumped it out to collada files in three.js [11:48]  Ubit Umarov: at least with ubode [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: using some basic controls, it's totally standalone no multi-user [11:49] Ubit Umarov: well i can't take that long [11:49] Kayaker Magic: I have some mantises about 1.2 second llCastRays in ubODE. [11:49] Ubit Umarov: our cameras are making raycasts here now [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: some of it comes down to how heavy your script load is too [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: in the region [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if your using .net vs mono [11:50] Kayaker Magic: In a 1x1 llCastRay is OK, switch to a var and it is USELESS [11:50] Ubit Umarov: hmm this is on bullet ? [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: this region is bullet yes [11:50] Ubit Umarov: yeap bullet.. so no physics raycasts [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunately my server is down at the moment [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: being a pain in the ass booting up [11:51]  Ubit Umarov: that 1.2s is with ubOde ? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: you have mantis # kayaker? [11:52] Kayaker Magic: looking it up [11:52]  Ubit Umarov: well if not using ubOde.. forget lsl raycasts.. they are plain slow [11:52] Ubit Umarov: those V2 of V3 things... [11:53] Ubit Umarov: we need to push Robert to add raycasts to bullet :) [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: yea if i recall he said something about needing to upgrade to next version of bullet to do that [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: don't quote me on that though [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: i may be misremembering [11:55]  Ubit Umarov: ( actually a damm thing to code in asm :) ) [11:55] Kayaker Magic: Ubit: Mantis 07851 is one of mine about llcastray and ubODE [11:56] Kayaker Magic: Mantis 7850 is the slow in vars one. [11:56] Ubit Umarov: think i seen that but i don't repo it [11:56]  Ubit Umarov: at least in my 3x3 var they are ok [11:56]  Kayaker Magic: I'll re-run the tests and get back to you. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: you are testing in Windows ubit? [11:57] Ubit Umarov: now amazing fast... they do take time.. :) [11:57] Ubit Umarov: yeap win7, i7 3.5G [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: ok mono may be the difference [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: it would not surprise me [11:57]  Ubit Umarov: don't think so [11:58]  Kayaker Magic: I am usually under mono [11:58]  Ubit Umarov: time in on the code lib [11:59]  Ubit Umarov: well in ubode they are used by the camera, for sits, for objects rez, for avatar position change on tp arrival and lsl [11:59]  Ubit Umarov: hmm make sure that option use V3 or something is false [12:00]  Ubit Umarov: not sure im really overiding it if ubode is active [12:00]  Ubit Umarov: ( on lsl ) [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: yea it is possible to run the v2 or v3 with ubode still [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: that would kill it for sure [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: I actually did that myself initially [12:01]  Kayaker Magic: What is the ini file setting for V3? [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: forgot to disable it [12:01]  Kayaker Magic: I recall the spelling was wierd. [12:01] Ubit Umarov: is somthing raycast v2 or v3 [12:02]  Ubit Umarov: i may kept it active bc there is a problem with physics raycasts [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: UseLlCastRayV3 [12:02] Ubit Umarov: they only work on things physics see [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: It has a default setting in OpenSimDefaults [12:02] Ubit Umarov: ie don't see shape type none [12:03] Ubit Umarov: but builders should know that ;) [12:04]  Ubit Umarov: if they build a house that should protect from raycast guns.. then better physics knows about the walls ;) [12:05] Ubit Umarov: well keep getting ppl telling ubode meshs are broken,,, grrr [12:06] Ubit Umarov: don't know what to say more about that [12:07] Ubit Umarov: what about 0.9.. having issues with it ? ( other than that meshs thing) [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I've found it uses more memory under mono than in Windows but that's not 0.9 specifc. [12:10] Ubit Umarov: memory use is a complex thing.. depends a lot on the GC [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: It first seemed it used double the memory but the actual usage has settled down now so it isn't as bad as that. [12:11] Ubit Umarov: ubode for example does cache meshs in memory for a few mins [12:11] Ubit Umarov: ( well think bullet also does similar.. ) [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Ok. I'm using BulletSim. [12:12] Kayaker Magic: Why not switch to ubODE Andrew? [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I would want to know the differences between the two. What works in one vs the other. [12:13] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: What does 'switch' mean? Recommended or Required? [12:14] Ubit Umarov: well if you have a lot of old broken meshes stay with bullet.. stop bothering me :p [12:14] Kayaker Magic: lol [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: James, I think Kayaker was asking why don't I switch to using ubODE vs BulletSim when I'm running OpenSim. [12:14] James.Atlloud @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: OK, ty. [12:14] Kayaker Magic: I've heard reports that lots of old vehicle scripts from SL work in ubODE when they would not work in BulletSim [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a bunch of objects that are bad. I forget if it's just bad textures or mesh issues. I think some are mesh issues. [12:15] Ubit Umarov: the main issue it the wrong use on visual mesh where there is no physics one.. that bullet decided to so grrr [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Aren't there some features that only work in BS and not in ubODE? [12:16] Ubit Umarov: ( double side collisions can be a issue.. but old ODE was already like that ) [12:16] Ubit Umarov: yeap the broken meshs :p [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: What happens with ubODE when it encounters broken mesh? [12:17] Ubit Umarov: you set physics shape type to NONE and they collide with full resolution on bullet [12:17] Ubit Umarov: you can't get inside some houses for example [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Don't make mesh houses? ;) [12:18] Ubit Umarov: nah just upload the mesh with correct settings [12:18]  Ubit Umarov: or add a few prims [12:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: We need a good tutorial on uploading mesh for the OS wiki, or an easily findable page if there is one there. [12:19]  Ubit Umarov: there are several [12:19]  Ubit Umarov: even an email from me i think [12:20]  Ubit Umarov: but this issue is simple [12:20]  Ubit Umarov: if you want a mesh to show the PRIM option.. then select a mesh for physics.. [12:20]  Ubit Umarov: just that [12:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: It would be good if someone would combine them in to a single page. There might be missing, wrong, or incomplete information on some of those pages. [12:21]  Nebadon Izumi: yea that's even recommend really for Bulletsim [12:21]  Nebadon Izumi: even though it will use a convex if you don't, it's still less efficient [12:21]  Ubit Umarov: actually viewers should have that more clear [12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, I tell it to use physics from file and point to the original mesh file. [12:21] Ubit Umarov: you can point to a visual LOD [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea you can even upload a second reduced mesh [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: say it's a house with curtains and doors and lots of little detail [12:22] Ubit Umarov: yeap pros upload a special mesh [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: you can save a second version of that same mesh minus all those small detail pieces [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: just walls and floors only [12:22] Ubit Umarov: that's the right way of doing it :) [12:22]  Nebadon Izumi: i do that often [12:22]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:23]  Nebadon Izumi: or if you really dont want physics [12:23]  Ubit Umarov: BUT you can also not select any THAT is LEGAL [12:23]  Nebadon Izumi: best to use a second mesh that is nothing but a tiny triangle only [12:23]  Nebadon Izumi: instead of specifying none at all [12:23]  Ubit Umarov: nahh type none is the best option [12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: doesn't Bullet throw an error still though? [12:24]  Ubit Umarov: a box is a fast collider [12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe that was fixed [12:24]  Ubit Umarov: a single tri is an ODD thing for physics [12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: well ya i generally turn it phantom anyway [12:24]  Ubit Umarov: better none and add a box inworld [12:24]  Nebadon Izumi: but i kind of remember bullet atleast throwing a red error on console about missing physics mesh [12:24] Nebadon Izumi: or something [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: if you selected none [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: maybe thats been fixed though [12:25] Ubit Umarov: none works with bullet i think [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: i pretty much never upload mesh without physics though [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool [12:25] Ubit Umarov: well unless on those meshs [12:26] Ubit Umarov: on them NONE == PRIM [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya maybe if its only if you make no choice [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: that you get that red error [12:26] Ubit Umarov: hmm think you only get a error if something is broken [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: ok yea its been a while since i've seen it [12:26]  Nebadon Izumi: Wright plaza gets tons of them [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: when it starts up lol [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: most of the plazas do though hehe [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: tons of old crap here though [12:27] Ubit Umarov: odd.. osg never lost assets :p [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: haha well it's a very specific physics message [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: about the physics mesh is missing [12:28] Ubit Umarov: ie like no asset found ;) [12:28]  Nebadon Izumi: similar but it's definitly not a missing asset message [12:28]  Ubit Umarov: well someone gave me a odd oar [12:28]  Nebadon Izumi: it's more like the asset never existed [12:28]  Ubit Umarov: no errors.. but i can't see half the meshs [12:28]  Nebadon Izumi: wierd [12:29]  Ubit Umarov: no idea what happened to those meshs [12:29]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe serialization stuff or something, you would think it would throw errors though if it was [12:30]  Nebadon Izumi: i have a ton of mesh from the first few weeks we were testing mesh before LL changed it up [12:30]  Nebadon Izumi: none of those rez anymore [12:30]  Ubit Umarov: well that oar has all types of mesh problems :) [12:30] Ubit Umarov: but one viewer doesn't display but is seen by physics is a first to me [12:32]  Ubit Umarov: well it's a issue on osgrid foruns dan asked me to check [12:32] Ubit Umarov: another " Meshs are broken with ubODE" ;) [12:32]  Nebadon Izumi: ah heh [12:33]  Ubit Umarov: don't understand also why ppl tell "uploaded with bullet or ubODE" [12:34]  Ubit Umarov: physics engines take no part on the upload process [12:34]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:34]  Ubit Umarov: testing.. well ok.. [12:34]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Nebadon. I'm going to go out for a while then add some more pieces to a 3D model I'm working on once I return. [12:34]  Nebadon Izumi: nice, someone will post todays chat log? [12:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i would but i don't have the whole thing [12:35]  Ubit Umarov: but even on Maria's someone told meshs uploaded with ubODe wiill not work with bullet.. nonsense [12:35]  Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunately Maria says a lot of wrong things [12:36]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, Sheera posts the chat logs after the meeting. [12:36]  Nebadon Izumi: yea was Sheera here whole time though? [12:36] Ubit Umarov: well she doesn't need to be here.. just her pc :) [12:36] Nebadon Izumi: yea I wasn't sure if she was loggged in or not [12:37]  Nebadon Izumi: well if not maybe someone can pass it along [12:37]  Nebadon Izumi: OSCC is coming up soon too reminder [12:37]  Nebadon Izumi: about 5 weeks away [12:37]  Nebadon Izumi: I added banner to front page of the wiki [12:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon: No, but I've passed along the part she missed. [12:37]  Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks [12:37]  Nebadon Izumi: Andrew and Ubit I hope you guys can take part in the dev panel [12:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right. Before you go, nebadon, some people were asking about an update re: the OSCC last week. [12:38]  Ubit Umarov: not sure [12:38]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, always depends on when the panel is being run. [12:38]  Ubit Umarov: 2 much misinformation on the air for my bad english now [12:38]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:38]  Nebadon Izumi: ok I am not sure schedule is up yet, but soon I will try to have more info next week [12:38] Nebadon Izumi: if not James will im sure [12:38] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty. [12:39] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org [12:39] Marcus Llewellyn: dev panel is on sat 7pst [12:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't done any coding on OS for a while now. [12:39] Nebadon Izumi: thanks Marcus [12:39] Marcus Llewellyn: I [12:40]  Nebadon Izumi: well really it's just the core devs, regardless of what code you contributed [12:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to make time to finish going through the code dump changelog. [12:40] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm talking top joyce now. lol [12:40] Nebadon Izumi: it's kind of just an open chat about opensimulator in general [12:40] Nebadon Izumi: ah cool thanks Marcus [12:40] Marcus Llewellyn: it is am, btw [12:41] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie and Crista will be there, probably Robert as well [12:41] Nebadon Izumi: any of the core devs are welcome to sit on the panel [12:42] Kayaker Magic: Great meeting today! [12:42] Kayaker Magic: I will re-test llCastRay and come repared to beat Ubit up about it next wek! [12:42] Kayaker Magic: hehe [12:42] Ubit Umarov: or update that mantis [12:42] Kayaker Magic: yes [12:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, do you have anything to say about any code changes this past week? [12:43] Ubit Umarov: if i could remember them lol [12:43] Andrew Hellershanks grins [12:43] Ubit Umarov: well a nasty merge issue on the IAR password [12:43] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, nebadon. Thanks for dropping in and the update on the OSCC. [12:44] Ubit Umarov: it was ignored ... [12:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, yes. I saw that in the changelog. [12:44] Ubit Umarov: a bug still on the physics prim sizes checks [12:44] Ubit Umarov: type none where not ignored... [12:45] Andrew Hellershanks: The code was change to mention 0.9.1 which I found odd as we haven't release 0.9 [12:45] Ubit Umarov: only that i think [12:46] Ubit Umarov: guess that problem with the site delayed the release a bit more [12:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I gather that 0.9-post-fixes branch was created in advance of a release and is considered stable [12:47] Ubit Umarov: guess that will be the source of the release [12:48] Ubit Umarov: well im waiting for the release to break master [12:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the most recent two fixes also in the PF branch? [12:48] Ubit Umarov: merging httptests into it [12:48]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok [12:48]  Ubit Umarov: ( but http is far far far from what it needs :( = [12:49] Andrew Hellershanks: If there isn't anything more for today we can head our separate ways until next week finds us back here again. [12:49] Ubit Umarov: but not sure we can use the ssl extra lag [12:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you next week.