Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-17

 [11:05] Hiro Protagonist is online. [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: oh here he is cool [11:05] Vivian Klees: better late than never [11:06] After Life: Hi Justin [11:06] After Life is online. [11:06] After Life: tnx [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:06] Vivian Klees: hello Justin [11:06] After Life: can you rebake please [11:06] After Life: for me you are cloud [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: omg, kokua cant handle voice notifications. it start to spam in loop. until you turn voice off [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:07] After Life: hm [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: is justin here, i dont even see him now [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: oh there he is [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: ohh i see. viewer vocie fight. singularity showed the same i just started for soem reason [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: does vivox btw still work in opensim ? because in sl the did updates [11:09] After Life: wb Arielle [11:09] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ty After [11:09] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: Justin made me crash when he came in :p [11:09] After Life: nice to see you back here [11:09] After Life: came in [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: It worked ok last time i tried it [11:09] After Life: hahaha [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have voice on this machine [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: we had a voice meeting on Saturday [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: if it stopped working we would vwry quickly hear about it [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: k [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: right I think the viewer devs would have probably said something [11:11] After Life: sure they will [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: so, any opensim topics today? The usuals? [11:11] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: where do we start.... [11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: j/k [11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: going to be releasing .7.6 soon? [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: I didn't have anything in particular myself [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey is trying to get over nausea of using an oculus rift for 5 mins [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: soon [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol Justin [11:12] Vivian Klees: DefaultDrawDistance is it in meters? [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: bit virtual seasickness? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I think everything here is based on meters [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: ok. if just can only hold 5min. i betetr dont try it at all [11:13] Vivian Klees: why 255? [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I traditionally get motion sick very easily [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: because anything higher creates an enourmous amount of network traffic [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: same here justin [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: that most people probably couldnt handle [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: anyway, cool you could try ! [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: with 255 you talk to 9 regions [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: with 511 you talk to 25 regions [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and so on [11:14] Vivian Klees: okay [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming all your neighbours are present [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: that would be maximum [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of traffic, increases the likelyhood of problems exponentially the more you increase that [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon. is the count you do the some for simulator to simulator talk ? [11:14] After Life: Hi Armenious [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: some = same [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: not sure I understand the question Richardus [11:15] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Hi After! [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: sims talk with each other. as example child agents, maby prims etc ? or is the count much lower [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: sims dont generally talk to each other unless a child agent is present [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: primarily, each region you see into has to create a separate connection from viewer to that simultaor [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: the further that draw distance is the more regions your child agent is connected too [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure how much cross region traffic child agents stimulate now though [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably not much to each other [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: only child to root [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: since a few changes were made for the conference to vastly reduce it [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: so 1 avatar can never have more then 9 connections, right [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: there wouldnt be any child to child i dont think [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: no it can [11:16] Hiro Protagonist is offline. [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, child to child never communicate [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: very much can, if you increase the number Vivian is talking about [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: you can have as many child agents as that distance covers [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: so in theory you could put it really high,.... at some poitn the viewer will not like it [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: in SL they handle the viewer side draw distance a little different than we do [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ours is not as refined [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and does not work as well [11:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: on a mega the draw distance does not matter does it? [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: yes we dont have iontressted list here [11:18] Teravus Ousley is online. [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: in a mega, everything is in the root region [11:18] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, on a mega the draw distance will not apply like that [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it has nothing really do do with how far you can see [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it has to do with how far your child agents are projected [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: well, since i heare the plan to work on verhcile simcrosisng i work with normal regions for now [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i notivce the chatter extends to all the regions of the mega [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: a mega is 1 region [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: in technical terms [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: though havent looked on my 100 region mega [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: the sub regions are dumby place holders [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you never really enter into those regions [11:19] After Life: Hi teravus [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: hi teravus [11:19] Teravus Ousley: They accept teleport requests and forward them to the region in the corner. THey're like 256m sized ears for the region in the bottom left corner :) [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: to ask it again. how's 0.7.6 going ? [11:20] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i like .7.6 pre fixes better then post fix .7.5 :) [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: post is confusing [11:21] After Life: yes me too [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: the first release candidate will be soon [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes still not sure if post if before or after [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: well, when I last tird something different people complain then as well [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ok. good news [11:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: cause we addicted to complaining [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: so I end up ignoring it :) [11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: shh dont tell us that [11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: so what about the 4096 linits? [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: limits [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: only useing RC sounds good enough to [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: what about them Arielle? [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: lkalif fixed them [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: in viewer [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: thats viewer side arielle [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: there is a small simulator side adjustment as well needed [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: well are the default entity transfer values going to be changed? [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: get latest dev version of singularity or kokua [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: its already been changed to 16383 [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ok [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i think it needs to be changed to 65535 [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: should be 65535 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:24] OtakuMegane Desu: Why put a limit at all lol [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: do you add the change in 0.7.6 for >4096 ? [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: there are technical reasons [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: the max will be 65535 [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: because there is a bug still, probably server side [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we should probably also look at implementing a check [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks reads the scroll back to catch up on the meeting. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: on region creation / startup, that anything over 65535 be rejected [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: as invalid [11:25] After Life: HI Andrew [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: thats good idea. 65Kx65K sounds big enough :) [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: there seems to be real issues above that number [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds reasonable to me [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: should probably limit region placement to 65535 rather than limiting teleport [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: thats what i mean [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: on region startup / creation of the region, reject anything above that, prevent region startup [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: 1,000,000 did work....just some map issues [11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. I don't think anyone really puts stuff further out for practical use at least [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: no it really didnt work [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: make a good note about that limit when its in the release. not sure if there are people to did go so high [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: some people couldnt teleport [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: it was more than the map [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i was able to tp to and from [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: not everyone was [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: just not consistent [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: seen mor 0,0 then anything that high [11:27] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: first jump worked but second time didnt [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: there are litterally not enough computers on earth to fill a 65535x65553 grid [11:27] Teravus Ousley: Did you see Herobrine up ther? [11:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: who is he? [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, After. Hello, everyone. [11:28] After Life: Hi [11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Herobrine [11:28] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Hi Andrew! [11:28] Teravus Ousley: It's a joke. A secret character from minecraft that occasionally appears and everyone denies it :) [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: sure there not 4294836225 compyuters. uhmm ok less because you can run more regions on 1computer [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i honestly doubt there are enough capable machines on earth to run that many regions [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: and stil have any left to log in with [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:29] Teravus Ousley: This feels a bit like the IPV4 meeting.. but I'm a go with the flow kinda guy [11:29] Dahlia Trimble: I saw that minecraft guy in lbsa plaza [11:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: can run regions on android phones if one puts on linux [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: not to mentoin the time to file and explorer them [11:29] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh, there's more than enough but you could combine all the grids and barely be a drop in that bucket [11:30] OtakuMegane Desu: 10 years from now you still wouldn't be remotely close to needing that much [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: not as long closed grids still survive :O [11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002 wonders how many times thats been said ;) [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: no especially since technically a lot of grids will not even be HG accessible [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you can take all of those out of the equation completely [11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: didnt they used to say that about 1 GB hardives? [11:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: or ram? [11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: In this case it's more actually "using" space in a region takes a lot of work and time. Unless you just have barren oceans [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: think you run faster out of skilled people then computers [11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: "Disk space and IP addresses are used up very easily [11:31] OtakuMegane Desu: By everyday stuff [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: I think its pretty safe to say OpenSimulator will never require more than that, by the time we did something much better will have come along I am sure [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: opensim still dont support ipv6 right ? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer doesnt [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: aah. [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: logic :) [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. On HG even having to place regions on a unified 2D 'map' is an odd artificial notion [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: plus like i said the only time the 65535/65535 comes into play is Hypergrid [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: anything not hypergrid enabled doesnt count in the total [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and even then its not a huge deal [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: it just means you cant teleport from 10000/10000 on OSgrid to 10000/10000 on some other grid [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you need to use a waypoint [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: that is the only limit [11:33] Teravus Ousley: Is the fix something that you can send back to the Linden viewer? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I think yes Teravus [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: why would the ad it ? [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the fix also works in SL is my understanding [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: if they want it [11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: ^ [11:34] OtakuMegane Desu: Key phrase there [11:34] Teravus Ousley: :) [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: no need for it there [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I really doubt they would touch it [11:34] Teravus Ousley: Yes. But I don't see why they wouldn't want to fix a bug :) [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: for them its not a bug [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: its not a bug for them [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: their grid is microscopic [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: Teravus, you forgot LL love bbugs ? [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: or maybe an intentional artificial limit [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I doubt LL had that much vision [11:35] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Running the current dev/master on a default standalone (win .net) memory starts at 129mb then increases steady to 250m (3hous or so). The sim has no prims, scripts or login. [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: to program something 10 years ahead [11:35] Teravus Ousley: The fixers can tell if it was an artificial artifact [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is the math suited their needs and thats what they went with [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: SL also works slightly differently which might conflict with the fix [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: for LL 4096 is still big enough [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: the fix is just doing math differently [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: in the way it clears objects in the viewer after a teleport [11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: for their "known" regions [11:35] Teravus Ousley: ah [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: 4096x4096 is the equivalent of 525 SL Sized grids aproximately [11:36] Teravus Ousley: If it changes the way regionhandles are calculated, I don't think they're going to be taking it :) [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: SL grid is 4096x4096 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes but its like 30,000-32,000 regions [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its a smal spec on that map [11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: And I highly doubt the SL grid will ever need half that space unless they start doing $20 regions or something [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its literally like 2% of the space occupied [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: less even [11:37] Dahlia Trimble: thats 16 million regions [11:37] Dahlia Trimble: 4096 * 4096 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: .19% [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ah yea .2 [11:38] Neovo Geesink: Thats one for every dutch person.... Wow... [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i was off by a decimal place [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: vat ? 21% [11:39] Vivian Klees: what kind of value is added by a tax? [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: 21% here [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: er.. wat? [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: 21% vat/ta/btw [11:40] Teravus Ousley: Are we talking about gasoline taxes? [11:40] After Life: we have 22% [11:40] Neovo Geesink: Thats in money.. [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: eep [11:40] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         53de6d9: 2013-09-12 23:38:50 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: so, rather than talk about tax rates, any other opensim topics? [11:42] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: is there anyone other then Diva doing coding on anything HG related? [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: HG is her baby [11:42] After Life: not that i know it [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: dont worry justin. im sure find one when i go use 0.7.6 final :) [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I think we will be looking pretty hard at HG issues soon [11:43] Neovo Geesink: I have a question about YourSimSpot.com from which I rent my region. It seems that Teleport on touch / collision refuses to work there while on the Plaza's it do work. Is there a setting that YSS does not want to incorporate into their regions? [11:43] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: in what way Neb? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: well we experienced many issues at the OSCC13 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: like permissions [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks is trying to deal with a sudden merge conflict after he tried to do a git pull [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: neovo: using what functio nto teleport? [11:44] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: with the oar transfers Neb? [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: maybe they have a telehub or a parcel teleport spot? [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: neovo, maby the run old opensim versions [11:44] Neovo Geesink: I dont have an example yet here, but I am meaning the Teleporters on LBSA Plaza and other Plaza's where one simpy can walk into to teleport. [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: unless you try to use ossl commands [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps they are not nabling osTeleportAgent [11:45] Neovo Geesink: Indeed, the command osTeleportAgent is some I have seen in them. [11:45] Vivian Klees: or the script engine is locked up [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: I think double click teleport is a viewer thing, just needs within region teleport [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: sorry phone rang [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: back [11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: maybe try mapto command [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: There was all kinds of issues with hypergrid [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and permissions [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: you can do teleports different ways [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, did the fix you applied to llGetLinkPrimitiveParams just fix that function or did it address other functions that pass a link number? [11:46] Teravus Ousley: someone broke raycast from the back of the head :) [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: trying to bring over content and permissions getting royaly screwed up [11:46] Neovo Geesink: I use llMapDestination instead when one clicks a Teleporter.... It does the trick, but I wanted to make more fancier Teleporters. [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, what broke with that command ? [11:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: yes seen that Neb [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: what are the other lsl functions using a link num? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it just didnt go well at all [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: needless to say Hypergrid can and will eventually be improved [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if you passed an invalid (ie. too high a value) for the link number it three a .NET exception which you saw in-world. [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: s/three/threw/ [11:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: basing drm and copyright on permissions wouldnt be a good thing like a couple grids are trying to do [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, I would have to check the list of functions. They should be ones with "Link" in the function name. :) [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: just want to note, does opensim already have " llXorbase64" not sure for what to use it btw. [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I was happy to discover 076 supported the queuing of sound files. One of my devices that plays music works now. [11:49] Teravus Ousley: you use that function for obfuscation [11:49] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Neb aside from permission problems (we all went a little nuts with those.).. did the CC sim engine stand up pretty well.. .I did seem to work.... [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes very well [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: oh cool andrew, thats good news [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: we only had 1 crash [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the entire weekend [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: on Keynote 1 [11:50] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: oh there was one? [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes Keynote 1 freaked out but it was very fast recovery [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: on day 2 [11:50] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Yeah.. i thought so.. the perception of people i take to for that part.. was great.!! [11:50] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: what was the max concurrency on any particular region? [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: there was a strange event where all thrads appeared to be exhausted [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I think we hit 50 something [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: at a couple of the talks [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunatley, in the understandable rush to get the regio back up again, we didn't capture more data, though there are some stat logs I could theoretically analyze [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I am pretty convinced it was Groups [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: might be worth copying all those logs somewhere at some stage, though I know there are a lot of them and it might be that I never get an opportunity to look [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i had people a few minutes prior to the region going haywire telling me their groups were not available in Keynote 1 [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and when I checked i had same problem [11:52] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: only grous were the support staff? [11:52] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: groups^ [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: there were a couple groups for Keynote 1 [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but yes it was mostly staff and presenters only [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and a few Developers [11:52] Teravus Ousley: me :) [11:53] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: well in any case i thought the whole CC ran incredibly well [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: Staff group chat was very active almost the entire weekend [11:53] Teravus Ousley: Same, I didn't even notice the crash [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so its possible that played a part maybe [11:53] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002 Agrees with Arielle. [11:53] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: How where people allocated to groups, was that pat of the TOS and registration process, or manual [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: means groups where working very good [11:53] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: my perception and it is mostly and educated guess, but i feel pretty strongly the hiccup was groups related [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: no Groups were mostly by chance, howeer [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC Zone 2 was all HG people [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: something managed to eat all the threadpool thrads. It could have been an issue in groups though hard to tell without a thread dump and there aren't any stats that would directly track it, I suspect [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: keynote 1 was the one region that had issues during load tests wasnt it [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC3 and 4 Zone was everyone else [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: just kind of randomly placed there, we were really just trying to balance the load as best we could [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: it worked out quite well [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we were using some new WiFi modifications to manage users [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and groups [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully those will all be available in the next version of WiFi [11:56] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: nice [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: also you can manage estates [11:56] Teravus Ousley: sounds like a partially hidden deadlock. Like any intermittent issue, it's tough to debug. I think of them as clogged arteries :) [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: move regions around between estates [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i could not find the wiki page back about V2 groups [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: another nice WiFi modification [11:57] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Someone kindly provided a migration from Flotsam to V2 groups [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: now i found it [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey's urge to puke has almost worn off [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya that was very nice to see someone do the legwork on the v2 migration path [11:58] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: lol Justin [11:58] Teravus Ousley: less puke = positive [11:58] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: no recommendation for Occulous from you? [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I think I got my inter-pupillary distance wrong [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I am pretty sure Occulus would make me puke too [11:58] Teravus Ousley: Occulus hates HUDs [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i dont do well on roller coasters and upside down stuff [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I wouldn't recommend it to gen public yet - resolution is too low [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: oh thats coverting page [11:59] Teravus Ousley: That's the challenging bit with Occulus [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: god, I don't even want to think about goin on a rollercoaster with that thing :) [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya they need to make it crazy high res OLED display [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: that's their plan [11:59] Teravus Ousley: :D Retina display [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: i saw that the Lumiya developer just got some kit [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i hear the finaly ocu;us get higher resolution [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: a time when it really makes sense :) [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: that lets you slide your cell phone into a headset like Occulus [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: and basically do the same thing [12:00] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: oh [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: she was planning on adding support to Lumiya for it [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: still dotn want to walk around with soemthing on my head. already enough on my head :) and hard to see your desktop with oculus [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: no idea if she will succeed but it sounds like an interesting idea [12:00] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i would settle for a map search TP in lumiya now though [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hard to tell [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya i dont think i would be able to keep it on my head long [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: even headphones drive me nuts [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: hehe. nebadon. you sounds like me. and you dont wear glasses for pc ... thats enopugh trouble [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya i cant even stand sunglasses [12:02] Teravus Ousley: Nebadon is waiting for the neck jack access point [12:02] Teravus Ousley: . [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: it's quite difficult with glasses. They supply other lenses for people with short-sightedness but they don't seem to work too well for me [12:02] OtakuMegane Desu: Or brainwave interface [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: waiting on the Nueral Implant jack, matrix style [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: would be difficult if you don't like something being clamped to your face :) [12:03] Teravus Ousley: mmm face clamping [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:03] OtakuMegane Desu: VR is neat but probably won't ever excite me *that* much until it's fully immersive. [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: you know someone is going to make a alien face hugger version of Occulus now [12:03] Dahlia Trimble: I think Id rather have a google glass than a rift [12:03] Dahlia Trimble: given my choice of expensive toys [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I think if i bought either of them they would sit on my desk and never get used [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: that was the case for me since I was so busy with other things. But starting to get interested again now [12:04] Dahlia Trimble: glass is pretty cool but the one I tried got really hot on the side where the cpu is [12:04] Teravus Ousley: You'd have picketers.. You're a spy for the NSA! [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: doesn't help though that they very quickly make me want to throw up - got to see wha tI can do about that [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya a lot of people get sick I hear [12:05] OtakuMegane Desu: Any reason why or just something that happens? [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: your inner ear and eye are out of alignment [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: your eye senses motion but your ear doesnt [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: not too bad when still, but not good when moving [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: your body thinks it has been poisoned [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: and makes you want to vomit to expel the poision [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: im not making that up [12:06] Richardus Raymaker: i know that warning already from the first VR sets. i think controled with amiga [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: thats really what happens [12:06] Dahlia Trimble: some video games make me sick, I wonder if its related? [12:06] Richardus Raymaker: to much movement in virtual world on my big screen is already enough to make me feel sick [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: from what I have read is that whenever your body and inner ear disconnect to what they are sensing your body automatically assumes you ingested something poisonous [12:06] Dahlia Trimble: the worst one is that old tank game, bzflag [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: and tries to make you physically throw it up [12:07] Teravus Ousley: only video game that has ever made me sick is XPlane while flying a helicopter badly on 8 monitors [12:07] Dahlia Trimble: lol [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm hoping one can get used to it. My sickness on ordinary 3D games has fallen quite a lot over time, for instance [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: thats why we get that feeling [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: though when I was trying to get it to work with my laptop right now it was a lot worse [12:07] OtakuMegane Desu: So is this just with VR-type stuff or anything immersive or that would fill a lot of your vision? [12:07] Dahlia Trimble: then there was this kiddie game, "bugdom" that made me pretty sick [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: either because the gfx update is slow or because I was fiddling with inter-pupillary distance [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: i assume anything that makes your eyes and ear disagree on motion [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: its not limited to video games [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: car sickness [12:08] Richardus Raymaker: boat [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:09] OtakuMegane Desu: Cause I've been in stuff like those domed IMAX theatres and it never bothered me. Neither does fullscreen Minecraft though it was a bit odd getting used to the first few times I played it that way [12:09] Richardus Raymaker: and low framerate bad smoothing makes it on pc worse [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness#Cause [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: read that Cuase paragraph [12:09] Teravus Ousley: solution is dramamine on drip [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it would be very hard to overcome this problem [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: without some kind of medication I think [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: right [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: something like that Teravus [12:10] Teravus Ousley:. [12:11] OtakuMegane Desu: Could see how a lot of people might be affected by that sort of thing [12:11] Teravus Ousley: IANT (I am not typing) [12:11] Teravus Ousley:. [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:11] Richardus Raymaker: i dont think ocluus get a big market. maby short hipe. thats all [12:11] Dahlia Trimble: IWT [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: I think it has a big market [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: I just dont think it will be what everyone expects [12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002 thinks that medication might make one hurl at higher velocities [12:12] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, feeling a bit under the weather today? [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia :) [12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: tc Material girl [12:12] Tomaz.Summery @grid.jopensim.com:8002: bye [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: octopus rife induced nausea [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: Occulus Rift! lol [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: octupus rife sounds yummy though id eat that [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:12] Richardus Raymaker: ok. you say it betetr neb. lets say its good for soem use. like development of buildings etc. but for games ? [12:13] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: right, I think there is a huge market for Military [12:13] Dahlia Trimble is offline. [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: and even medical [12:13] Richardus Raymaker: yes.. [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: and probably even Video Games, as a niche [12:13] OtakuMegane Desu: VR has a huge potential market but it has to accomplish one (or both) of these things: widely appealing content and conuining variety of content and/or full sensory immersion so that even simple stuff would be utterly amazing to experience just cause. [12:13] Richardus Raymaker: And.. not getting sick [12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I have to go too. Bye for now, folks [12:15] OtakuMegane Desu: The latter I can't see happening any time in the near future at a consumer level