Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-27

 [11:00] Nebadon Izumi is online. [11:00] Robert Adams: I'm working on enhanced linksets -- where you can change the properties of the links in a linkset [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: ? [11:01] Robert Adams: make them springs, hinges, sliders [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: nice [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: does lsl not have that command already ? [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: unless you have ossl in mind [11:01] Robert Adams: no... but I'm adding new ones [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: aah, nie. [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin., neb, all [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, justin. Hello everyone. [11:02] Robert Adams: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/BulletSim/ScriptFunctions [11:02] vegaslon plutonian: hey [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: are the avatar sits/cams already fixt ? [11:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Thanks Robert [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think so Richardus [11:03] Robert Adams: I have about 25 commits that I haven't checked in [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: 25? wow [11:04] Robert Adams: I figure if I did that now just before OSCC, justin's head might explode [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I have one commit for osprofile (or was it search). [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Robert, we need already keep it togheter with ductap[e [11:04] vegaslon plutonian: think in general waiting for the next release and see what melanie is willing to donates before anyone looks at the sit cams again [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I simply would stop merging master into 0.7.6-pf :) [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: but I would ideally not make any changes to 0.7.6-pf now for physics except fore critical issues or very sure fixes [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: so, in 2 weeks you maby expect RC ? [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: or 3 [11:05] Robert Adams: ok... I'll check them in then. :) [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: atm, I'm just trying to make it through this conference [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: then we shall see [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: most probably [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: i see 3 clouds. [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: same here [11:06] Robert Adams: clouds for me, too [11:06] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Am I one of those? [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Because I only see 2 [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: not you fred [11:07] Robert Adams: for me, the clouds are Joe and Ocean [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Master, Joe, and Kayaker [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: yup [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Same for me [11:07] Robert Adams: I see a shape for Master but he's all white [11:07] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         050617a: 2013-08-23 01:13:19 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: The gas clouds remind me of an episode or two of original series Star Trek. :) [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Rebake Kayaker [11:08] Kayaker Magic: Can't find it in imprudence... [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I fyou do update master, could you tell me if there are any critical commits that really need to go into 0.7.6-pf? I must admit, it is still useful if master and 0.7.6-pf are very close but I don't want to hold you up unnecessarily [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ctl-alt-r [11:08] logger sewell: crtl alt R [11:09] Master Dubrovna: rebakes [11:09] logger sewell: fred was too fast for mr :P [11:09] Robert Adams: one Firestorm feature I miss in Singularity is ability to make dialog background transparent [11:09] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: OK now Kayaker [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: think its in singularity. but first thing i need to do is disable transpaant. lol it makes working very hard if you see the world [11:10] Kayaker Magic: Good, can't tell on my end if it heard me... [11:11] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Load test later? [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: right after this meeting concludes [11:12] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Anyone know if a viewer works when using vnc remote desktop, the MS one does not? [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: i think that works fred [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: possible a bit slow [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen it with teamviewer [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: brb, but I don't believe vnc will handle opengl [11:14] Robert Adams: I'll add a load tester from my phone... keep the networks busy [11:15] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I have a classroom full of PC, useful for load testing, but awkward to access direct during the holidays [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Running two viewers on my desktop is really hard on the CPU these days. My laptop died so I can't login from it to keep my desktop happy. [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: poor laprop. what died ? [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Seems to be a known problem with one of the chips on the mother board needing to have the solder reflowed. [11:16] Robert Adams: I turn off basic shaders and turn down view distance... I can get a lot more viewers on my desktop then [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: ohh that crackled gpu chip [11:16] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: hello everyone [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, might be that chip since I saw some funny artifcats on the video screen before it finally died. [11:17] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Hello Licu [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, back [11:19] logger sewell: wb [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: so, any opensim topics today? [11:20] Kayaker Magic: Hehe, you have time to work on any if we bring them up? [11:20] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: What is the status of JSON storage? [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: unfortunately not until after the conf :( [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: json storage? [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, have you had any time to look at the pending patches for the mantis reports I filed a while ago? [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I did look at some [11:21] Robert Adams: json storage and persistance works, as far as I know [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I don't remember what ones I filed without checking. :) [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: waiting for 0.7.6 before i start to work on things [11:22] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Thanks Robert, had an idea from somewhere that the format could change [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm still not 100% happy with the new telepor tstuff [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: In a test so far, pCampbot has enountered transient issues though I don't know yet whether that's some quirk of pCampbot or some opensim issue [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: whats crawling around justin about tp stuff now [11:23] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: may I ask what is the status of materials? cool vl viewer has an experimental version to see materials... what about openim? [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: Licu, alpha i think with materials [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: licu: opensim dev code does have materials support [11:24] vegaslon plutonian: has anyone seen it taking up to a minute for a shift copy of a prim to apear and while you wait you can't move? [11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: There is a materials module available. I use it regularly. But it hasn't yet been declared ready for release, and isn't enabled by default. [11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: If dahlia pops by, she's the one to ask. [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: vegaslon: have not seen that [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: Hi marcus. not done any building with opensim last time. [11:25] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: thank you Markus... I see it is called MaterialDemoModule... so still a demo i think [11:25] Marcus Llewellyn nods in agreement to Licu. [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, The attachments to group notices patch is the main one I was wondering about. I've updated it once already due to other OS changes going in since the patch. Didn't want to updated it a 3rd time. [11:26] Marcus Llewellyn: I haven't run intyo any problems with the materials module myself. But until dahlia says it's done, we have to expect that it may change on us. [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: unfortunately, I have zero capacity to process complex patches atm and this will likely remian the case until after the conf [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, np. I'll try to remember to hold of on asking about it again until after the conference. [11:27] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: s/of/off/ [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: whenis the conference ? [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: wkend after next [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: practically all my time is spent dealing with issues arising from that atm [11:32] tx Oh: hi [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: "buffer overflow" for justin :O [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I have 81 avatars logged into Keynotes already :) [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, feels like it [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: expect me to start spewing lines about viagra and nigerian bank accounts soon [11:33] tx Oh: oh, is there a stresstest again? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol Justin [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: lol justin [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: yep right after this meeting [11:34] tx Oh: nice, i didn't got a place for the conference so far. but it's ok. [11:34] Kayaker Magic: Oh, I thought you were talking about stressing out Justin [11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: I've missed the last couple tests. Is there anything special we should be paying attention to? Anything we should or should not be doing? [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: preference is to come in and sit down, since that redulces load on the servers [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: should not be sitting. no matter what Justin says :P [11:35] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: hi all [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Dahlia! :) We were wondering earlier where the materials module sat. [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: Hi Dahlia. well better test is if we stay all :P [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: lol, this is a stress test [11:36] logger sewell: hey is there anyway to block a specific viewer from logging in [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: and I'm not even the one working the hardest :0 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: logger sewell, yes [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... some of the map tiles of nearby regions hvae the white strip down the right hand side. [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: in Robust.ini [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: assuming your running grid [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: in Standalone its probably StandaloneCommon.ini [11:36] logger sewell: thanks Neb i missed that when i was digging [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: you can blacklist viewers [11:37] tx Oh: i made a camera script to make my map tile :-) [11:37] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, it sits in the source tree :) [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: the directions are in the ini [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: Hehe [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: hmm about viewers... does have 0.7.6 beter HG maptile view ? [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: That's usually a problem when running with the warp3d map generator [11:37] Dahlia Trimble: I'm still waiting for Justin to finalize the storage before I move it to non-experimental status [11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: The white strip on a map tile only occurs under Linux. POssible a mono GDI quirk or something. [11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: Ah, okay, Dahlia. :) [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: no, i mean no maptile at all when you HG [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I was thinking it was an OS issue. I won't try fixing it in the OS code in that case. [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: also I think LL hasn't quite released it yet, so protocol might change [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: there is a new variable you need to set [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: for the HG map [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you won't see the tile when you search on map initially [11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: LL officially released materials into their main viewer recently. [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: but once you get into the destination grid you will then see tiles [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: ya but they still have a RC of it too I think [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: or project viewer [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: ok. look at that and call back when im at that point again [11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: One thing I have noticed is that I can't remove a specular map from a mesh. [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: really? I havent tried that [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: it should [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: Dunno if it's a viewer thing or what. But yeah... it pops back into place when you leave the specular settings. [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. I have some ghost maptiles showing up. A region was temporarily moved and the tile shows up where it used to be. Haven't found out how to get rid of the ghost tiles yet. [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: probably a viewer thing [11:41] Dahlia Trimble blames the viewer [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: lol [11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: I've been using Kokua for all my materials, and that one follows LL code pretty darn close. I'll keep paying attention to the behavior for now. [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Viewer cache has been cleared and they still show up. [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to do further digging in to the database incase some old info was left lying around. [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: I havent tried kokua, I was using the LL project viewr [11:43] tx Oh: kokua got a new version out [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Kokua has had material support for a while now. [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: The only other thing I've experienced as a problem occurs in combination with the experimental mesh deformer, and that's *definitely( a viewer issue. I did give someone a backtrace for that. [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: I think I tried Cool VL but at the time it would only display materials [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: it wouldnt set them [11:44] tx Oh: when was the conference again? [11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: http://conference.opensimulator.org/ [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: no that link dont work marcus. no HG [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Unrelated Question: Why is is better to run multiple regions in separate instances? [11:45] tx Oh: ty [11:45] Marcus Llewellyn: That's for the conference's website. [11:46] Joe Radik: September 7-8 [11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have 6 regions running in one 'screen' in one instance on Opensuse Linux, it has been very reliable. [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: .better? it's different, not necessarily better or worse [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: 1) protection against crashes. 2) previously ODE was flaky but is better now in multi-region. However, will be less efficient [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: personally, I think it's fine nowadays [11:46] Robert Adams: more physics, more script engine, probably little better latency if regions are active [11:46] Joe Radik: Wow! Local chat shows me as Unknown User [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: but it does get less testing, naturally, that a single region in an instance [11:46] Joe Radik: Am I still a cloud? [11:46] Robert Adams: probably not much difference if the regions are not very active [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: for simple regions, I often ren them all on the same instance [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: for ones with a lot of stuff, I have separate [11:47] Robert Adams: so, the ultimate answer: it depends [11:47] tx Oh: i run multiple regions in one sim. since.. ever? [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia is the only one I see as a gas cloud. [11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: It was scripting that got wierd for me with multiple regions per instance. Some regions would stop running them for unknown reasons. [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: Note: a mega you can only run on 1 simulator :\ [11:48] Kayaker Magic: Good data, thanks all. I think I'll leave them multiple in one instance, [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: cloud? OMG *does vainty rebake* [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I see you now, Dahlia. [11:48] Kayaker Magic: perhaps add a second instance for sailable waters around it when border crossings is allowed... [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: planning to build first as normal regions. but afraid verhcile simborders is far away [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: when border crossings work i dont think you need a mega [11:49] Robert Adams: yes... need border crossing!! [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: lol when they work [11:50] Kayaker Magic: People used to say "come the melenium" to mean don't hold your breath... [11:50] Robert Adams: this conference is delaying things [11:50] tx Oh: what happen when you try border crossing? [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Delaying some things, but it's provided some rapid development in other areas, which is cool. :) [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: "poof" [11:50] Robert Adams: vehicels don't behave well.... any sitting avatar is unsat [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: physics and vehciles dont go over border currently [11:50] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: hmmm the conference is maybe delaying some things...but it is also bringing us improvements i think [11:51] tx Oh: this conference got many old bugs fixed. [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: the conference make other things good so things after that are less porblematic to i hope [11:51] Robert Adams: oh yes.... the conference has been a great forcing function... a lot of things are fixed [11:51] Joe Radik: /nw nods [11:51] Joe Radik nods [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, the conference brings big improvements in lots of areas [11:52] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: that reminds me..when you have someone teleporting into your region and you get a chat lag....what setting might change to improve that....if any setting? [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: DId you clossed the bug trashcan before you left ?? [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: are these people with lots of attachments? [11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't think there is any setting you can tweak for that, Fearghus. TPs are just very data heavy operations... OpenSim chugs a little when they happen. [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: lol I bet a lot of improvements woudnt have happened if the conference server was configured properly [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: the "desktop kernel" issue [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: no, the changes were still necessary [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: :) [11:53] Kayaker Magic: Thanks for all the good work from the Developers! [11:53] Kayaker Magic: I gota run! [11:53] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: hmm not an awful lot i think....someone mentions something with threads so was wondering if could increase that....or maybe a parameter for mono? [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: they might not have been noticed [11:53] tx Oh: what was the problem with the kernel? [11:54] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: i don't see the cpu spike at the moment the lag happens [11:54] logger sewell: Kayaker tc [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I think the desktop kernel was probably only an issue too because of the dual socket 24 core cpu configuration [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: the kernel was either not scheduling properly or not reporting cpu load properly [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: one region looked like it was saturating 24 cores [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: eep [11:55] tx Oh: hmmm... i usually compile a customizeded kernel [11:56] tx Oh: does a sim spread over all available cores?? [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: well in the end it all worked out :) [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: tx, it's multi-threaded. depends on how many cores mono makes available to it [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: or windows ? [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: there's more then linux. [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: or .net [11:58] tx Oh: windows? which windows? :-) [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: I think .net will let the application control it more tho [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: the cores you can set in opensim right ? at least you can set something there im always adjusting [11:59] Dahlia Trimble: opensim creates many many threads, so will probably use whatever it can get if it needs it [11:59] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: is that dependend on MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU? [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: not sure [12:00] tx Oh: i guess [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: we should probably start heading over [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3 [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: the threadpools in opensim can request multiple running threads [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 4 [12:00] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: oh right load test [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: and theres several instances of the threadpool [12:00] tx Oh: is there a cheat page for optimized opensim runtime environment? [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: trail and error i think tx [12:01] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: that would be ice tx :) [12:01] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: +n [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok see you all there :) [12:01] Dahlia Trimble: often servers are designed to use one thread per cpu, opensim uses many