Chat log from the meeting on 2021-10-12

 [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:01] Meeting Chat Logger V4: Meeting chat logging has been enabled. [11:01] Meeting Chat Logger V4: Be sure to stop and clear the log at the end of the meeting, this will create the archive @ https://outreach.blight.media/archive/ [11:01] Meeting Chat Logger V4: You can view the log at: https://outreach.blight.media/index.php [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had to make a bell so I could ding someone [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby [11:02] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did he crash? [11:03] Ubit Umarov: who? [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Jamie [11:04] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: i did [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ouch [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie. [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I managed to get Win 11 up and running in a VM, so the viewer (mine) seems to work OK [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Vincent. [11:05] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: huhu [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Vincent [11:05] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: my isp seems to be having issues lately [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ah [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the same one facebook is using? [11:06] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: lol [11:06] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:08] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It's kinda amazing to think with physical security to the point they locked themselves out they can still have data leaks and hacks [11:08] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Security theater more than anything it seems [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: isn't facebook itslef a massive hack? [11:09] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: :-) [11:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: A hack implies some form of sophistication... [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:11] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: In other news letsencrypts cert needed an update, which apparently caught out some folks be surprise that perhaps keeping their nix boxes up to date regularly isn't such a bad idea. I also saw friggn acme changed over to zerossl and socat which broke a few implementation for those that bothered to automate cert renewal [11:11] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Fun stuff [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Looking at the code repo there were a few changes to the Open Simulator code this past week. Nothing too major, AFAICT. [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: One of the changes addressed a possible threading issue in the code. [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: baby steps Andrew. Baby steps [11:13] Ubit Umarov: that was a few minutes ago [11:13] Ubit Umarov: under test :) [11:13] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: The changes that just went in were for some edge case that had a reproduction rate of less than 0.1% which was a pain to track down. Verdict is still out whether they work as intended, but I hope so [11:13] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Ubit and I been testing all day pretty much [11:13] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: That was actually fun to do :D [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Fun stuff indeed. :P At least you are making progress tracking down the issue. [11:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Yeah especially given how rare the issue is even reproducing is complicated, it's entirely timing thing that happens out of the blue [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: The other changes were for two mantis reports: 8933, and 7941. [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Looking at the first change for 8933 I see lots of if and ifelse checking the variable type and doing something based on the type. Wouldn't it be faster to do something like 'varType = blah' then use a switch statement to jump to the relevant code? [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Stefanie [11:18] Kayaker Magic: Hello everyonde. What have I missed so far? [11:18] Ubit Umarov: switch does not work on those cases [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker [11:19] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ho Kauaker, Stefanie [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, not much. Just going over the changes made to the code this past week. [11:19] Kayaker Magic: Here is a question: I recall Ubit saying "BAH! Never" about display names, but then people tell me "Bill had display names at OpenSimFest, why can't I have them on my grid" [11:20] Ubit Umarov: i speak for opensim core, not other people modules or code [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just use the old trick by attaching a prim with floating text over [11:21] Kayaker Magic: So did you write a display name module Bill? [11:22] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I don't see the appeal in changing your name all the time, it just confuses people. Call me old, but I can't keep track of the few dozen friends on my Steam account that constantly change their nicknames. They act all confused when I keep asking who dis? lol [11:22] Kayaker Magic pokes Bill [11:22] Stefanie.Ferdinand @hg.zetaworlds.com:80: HEllo everyone [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I always have my viewer set to not show display names. [11:22] Bill Blight: No I modified one that was written by Stolen-ruby at Mobiusgrid, was 99% his code [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Stefanie. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: me too Andrew [11:22] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'm not a fan of display names, but some old SL people love them and want them here [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I always wonder if someone using a display name will recognize their primary name for those of us who don't see the display name version. [11:23] Bill Blight: not a HUGE fan of display names, but I understand why they are liked .. [11:23] Bill Blight: You can customize everything about your avatar, why not your name [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is sort of like RL, yeah? [11:24] Kayaker Magic: So what are people talking about when they say Bill Blight got display names working on OpenSimFest? [11:24] Bill Blight: Well why in the hell should virtual lives be like RL that is kind of the point [11:24] Bill Blight: I had display names at fest, which I am no longer involved with [11:25] Kayaker Magic: OK, then how did you do that? And can I do what you did? [11:25] Bill Blight: Only thing I modified really was the ability to change them more often, but would never do that for a full time grid .. [11:25] Bill Blight: As I said, I used the mobius grid code, pretty sure they still have a git [11:26] Bill Blight: I just patched their DN code onto the version I used [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: wb again, Jamie. [11:26] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty [11:27] Bill Blight: (just an FYI, Myself and Leighton have handed off Opensim Fest to Mike Chase and his crew) [11:27] Kayaker Magic: AH, I'll bug him about display names then. [11:27] Bill Blight: He doesn't have my code [11:27] Bill Blight: LOL [11:27] Bill Blight: I was not going to use it this year [11:28] Bill Blight: I'll see if I can find you and old repo [11:28] Kayaker Magic: I'm unclear, did you actually impliment the SL style display names, or just allow avatars to change their legacy names? [11:29] Bill Blight: It was truly SL style display names [11:29] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: The other thing this week was CollisionFilter, which phil still needs to test, it was one of the older tickets I dug up in going through them. I aim to close as much old stuff as possible so the mantis is less of a mess and becomes more clear what still needs doing. Some of the really old tickets have become near impossible to track progress or changes on so I am not yet sure how to handle them. [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I think this might the repo site -> https://github.com/Mobius-Team [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: s/might/might be/ [11:30] Kayaker Magic: I saw you closing some old mantusi that had been fixed a long time ago, THANKS for cleaning up stuff like that! [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the old tickets are still valid, perhaps try and bump them up the list (not sure if there is a function for that) [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I was asking Ubit if there was a cleaner way of doing some of those if and if else blocks of code. They seem very inefficient to me as they are. [11:32] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Always a question of what's an important issue that needs revisiting since bumping might just bury some recent tickets too, need to be careful with that, but hopefully can get someone looking at them once a week. A closed ticket a week would be a good start. [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: If you can sort by bumped tickets separate from sort by date then recent tickets won't get lost. [11:34] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Submission date and update date yeah [11:34] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Are incremental ticket ids as well [11:35] Kayaker Magic: I'm about to submit a new mantus, still getting organized to demonstrate it: If you rez (by script or by dragging) an animesh out of inventory in a prim, it arrives with all the animations not running. I think llGetObjectAnimation thinks they are still running, the workaround is to stop them all and start them again on_rez [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe assign a status for just those [11:35] Bill Blight: I'd actually call that a feature [11:35] Kayaker Magic: I did test that in SL and animesh dragged out of prim inventory does arrive with the animations working. [11:36] Bill Blight: keeps your animesh from running away from you [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: rvisit - reevaluate - bump whatever [11:36] Kayaker Magic: Animation cannot get an animesh to run far.... [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, I would be inclined to think of it as a feature. Just enable them via then on_rez handler if you really want them running after being rezzed. [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 10 meter, yeah? [11:37] Bill Blight: still 10m cubed makes it hard to find the root prim unless you are looking for invisible [11:38] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I only have reporter role on mantis which means some functionality and options are not available, a special status for legacy issues or something "to be revisited" would make sense I guess. For the time being I try to assess how critical the issue was and bump based on that. Not easy given if the issue was really critical I would expect it to see new submissions on mantis on the same problem. So far have not found many duplicates [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: You can always script it so the animated mesh can move by more than 10m in addition to the movement of the animation. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: if you relog they should play [11:39] Ubit Umarov: ( or not... ) [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: can you teleport an animesh by script? [11:40] Bill Blight: Teleportobject works on animesh [11:40] Ubit Umarov: yeah should work [11:40] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but scripted movement of the anim does not get disabled on rez, while animated movement is disabled and that is my bug. [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, in on_rez you can start by disable animation before attempting to start it again. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: possible i forgot a anim update on rez [11:41] Ubit Umarov: dunno [11:42] Ubit Umarov: or was like that at sl and they changed [11:42] Kayaker Magic: Yes, stopping all the animations and restarting them is my current workaround. But that should not be necessary. [11:42] Bill Blight: I just do that with an on_rez event [11:42] Ubit Umarov: not sure those animations are even include on the object [11:42] Ubit Umarov: guess not ?? [11:42] Kayaker Magic: Oh by the way, I cannot find a way to turn animesh mode on and off from a script. Is there a llSetStatus bit or something that can do that? [11:43] Ubit Umarov: i mean the playing list [11:43] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Which, I mean you rez the object right that's what that is for no? I always call that on my npc scripts cause state_entry alone does not survive a region restart [11:43] Ubit Umarov: think that is volatile ?? [11:43] Kayaker Magic: The animations are playing if you rez the animesh directly from inventory. [11:43] Ubit Umarov: oh? ok [11:44] Bill Blight: Ok gotta bail, early catch you all on the flipside [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc Bill. [11:44] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: So problem only when pulling out of prim inventory? Perhaps because prim contents already loaded then [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yup. I'm writing the smallest possible script to demonstrate it. Will have to send Ubit an animesh object and bvh file to set it up.... [11:45] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Hm perhaps a hierarchy issue applying the animation to the host prim instead of the animesh contained within [11:46] Ubit Umarov: yeah guessa mantis is the best thing [11:46] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Wonder if the host prim the animesh is in starts dancing if it was a rigged mesh [11:47] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Not surviving context switch or something [11:47] Ubit Umarov: if (prim.Animations!= null) cmd.Parameters.AddWithValue("sopanims", prim.SerializeAnimations); [11:47] Ubit Umarov: yeah i did not forgot to store them on dbs :) [11:48] Ubit Umarov: oops [11:48] Ubit Umarov: on mysql only? [11:48] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I did submit a mantis this week regarding an issue that has been bothering me for years. I have the faint hope I am not the only one experiencing that issue. Even recorded it on video to proof I am not totally insane... yet [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: What mantis #, Vincent? [11:49] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: 8934 [11:49] Ubit Umarov: yeah can't repo that either [11:49] Ubit Umarov: never seen it [11:50] Ubit Umarov: but seems lludp issues related, ofc [11:50] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It would not surprise me, but will test after recent changes, maybe we get lucky this once [11:50] Ubit Umarov: who knows.. [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: As I was reading that I was wondering if it made a difference if the viewer cache was cleared, then I thought it could be a viewer bug. I see that it is listed as possibly being a viewer bug in the report. [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course it is a viewer bug! [11:51] Ubit Umarov: ofc :p [11:51] Ubit Umarov: by definition even :p [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: The issue sounds vaguely familiar but can't say I've seen it, or certainly not recently. [11:51] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'm thinking there is a potential that some closing "prim is now this scale and position" just isn't sent by the viewer, that is possible, but then why only older prims is the confusing part [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: by definition [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can make it a feature [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: That is the odd part. Why would prim age be a factor? [11:53] Ubit Umarov: bc old prims get into a viewer objects cache [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, if you clear your viewer cache and try again there is no difference in the behaviour? [11:54] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I can try that, but I did that once before when this was happening on a different region with no effect if I recall correctly [11:54] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Can you disable the objects caching in Firestorm? [11:54] Ubit Umarov: odd how no one complained about no animesh storage on dbs other than mysql [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, you will need to relog before any change may be seen after saying you want to clear cache. [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you probalby have to write-lock the object cache dir [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to disable [11:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: That would have been my next question heh [11:56] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'll give that a try and report back on the ticket :) [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Our hour is just about up. Any other questions/comments for today? [11:56] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: If I recall objects caching was fairly recent addition or has it been in the viewer for years? [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, been in the viewer for years, AFAIK [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: couple years - at least the current version is not very old [11:57] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: That would be in line with first seeing this back in 2018 or even earlier then [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought it has been around for a lot longer than a couple of years. [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but FS is using their new cache that nobody else use [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL went live with it but had to revert two days after as it did strange things [11:58] Kayaker Magic: At the TPV meetings, LL keeps talking about the "new simplified viewer cashe" code, but they have not released it to the FS group yet. [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is the code they got from FS [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they had to revert it as they got all kinds of issues on the grid [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is the odd update to the branch, but nothing to be released yet [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe the server thinks the prim is a tree and after a few weeks it is full grown, so no more resizing [12:01] Kayaker Magic: The current viewer cashe is mysterious. Why does it cashe textures you are not looking at, but drop sculpt maps you are not looking at? [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Gavin [12:01] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: lol [12:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: This ain't a concrete wall lol [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: isn's /wasn't there a tree module [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where threes would grow? [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: trees* [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: There is/was a tree module. [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: It might still be there and just needs to be enabled. [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never seen that in action so it would be fun to see what it does [12:04] Kayaker Magic: Sounds like nobody here has any experience setting it up or even if it still works.... [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, The settings for it are still in the ini files. [12:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Had a conversation on irc about the linden trees and them not waving in the wind, though consensus was that was viewerside [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think I have observed that Andrew [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, see [Trees] in the OpenSimDefault.ini file. [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hence the mistaking a prim for a tree [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other final items for today? [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: new viewer version published on Saturday [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: get it while it lasts [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: New Thanksgiving (for the Canadians) weekend goodness. :) [12:08] Kayaker Magic: Thank goodness for Canadians! [12:08] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: oh I forgot about that [12:08] Kayaker Magic: I wish they would let us USA citizens visit them again.... [12:08] Kayaker Magic: The border was still closed last time I looked. [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I only knew about it because someone mentioned it on Friday. [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Border to the north is sealed [12:08] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: sneaks up on me every year [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: south on the other hand... [12:09] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: wide open [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: The border is going to be opened to people who have been fully vaccinated but that may only apply if both shots were of the same vaccine. [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: For people wanting to get in to the US. [12:09] Kayaker Magic: They were going to open it for vaxedUSA people in August, then changed their mind. [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are they pulling the both shots were of the same vaccine nonsense now? [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: If we are getting on to the Covid topic I'll call this meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.