Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-30

[2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: horrid is a bit strong :) I think they're v popular with education people [2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: no, but I hear bad things about those [2011/08/23 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i just can not imagine why [2011/08/23 11:04] Nalates Urriah: Just add a popup that says one has to be nude to save an NPC [2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: the attachments code is a mess [2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: it has some good stuff, like sound cones [2011/08/23 11:04] BlueWall Slade: I dug in there about a year ago [2011/08/23 11:04] BlueWall Slade: made my head spin [2011/08/23 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: of course just my own personal opinion and experience with it [2011/08/23 11:04] BlueWall Slade: I got them th half work in 0.6.9 [2011/08/23 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: you mean the ll attachment functions are broken? [2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: last time I checked, yes [2011/08/23 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh [2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: 1 sec [2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: ahh, never mind [2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: my other session is dead [2011/08/23 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm off now. See you guys later [2011/08/23 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: I'll make a check and tell you in IRC [2011/08/23 11:05] Nalates Urriah: bye Justine [2011/08/23 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: see you Justin, give a shout you need anything [2011/08/23 11:06] Spike Sol: Hello everyone together [2011/08/23 11:06] BlueWall Slade: ok, thanks! take care [2011/08/23 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey waves [2011/08/23 11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Cya, Justing [2011/08/23 11:06] Sarah Kline: bye [2011/08/23 11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: -g [2011/08/23 12:49] Gennifer Eros: What viewer do you use? [2011/08/23 12:50] Suffy Blackburn: Impudence [2011/08/23 12:50] Suffy Blackburn: I hate this duck walk [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: whow.. [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello justin [10:01] VivK Lowlag: hi JCC [10:02] Allen Kerensky: howdy Justin! [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus. nabdon, vivk, allen, folks [10:02] Sarah Kline: Hello Justin [10:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin [10:02] Allen Kerensky: Justin - was that you with the pic of ~100 alien NPCs dancing? [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon :) [10:03] Allen Kerensky: thanks - i saw it and couldn't find it again - it reminded me of a t-shirt called the Ministry of Silly Alien Walks [10:03] Allen Kerensky: http://laughingsquid.com/ministry-of-alien-silly-walks/ [10:04] Justin Clark-Casey: heh [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/101558395514182710128/videos [10:04] Allen Kerensky: thanks Nebadon! that's the one I was thinking of [10:07] Richardus Raymaker whispers: hope you locked the cage.. [10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: how is everyone? [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: doing good [10:07] Sarah Kline: silent [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: little tired [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. not sure. [10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: heh [10:08] Sarah Kline: ) [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: i spent the last like 5 days straight doing nothing but learning blender [10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you are hardcore [10:08] Sarah Kline: yay [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: still shocked from win8 news. not good. but thats nothing ith opensim.. [10:08] Sarah Kline: did I see LL logos on your sim Neb? [10:08] Sarah Kline: lol [10:09] Sarah Kline: nice work though [10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how has my mono patch been working out. Seen a reduction in crashes? [10:09] BlueWall Slade: that synth looked nice [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya, i was meshing around with Logos [10:09] Allen Kerensky: the blender team has a load of good tutorial videos too [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say Justin, most of the time i saw that crash was during the meetings [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: but I can not say i have seen it happen since applying it [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: so i guess thats a good start [10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, let's give it longer [10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, difficult to prove a negative [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: is there some inressting new opensim version ? [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: still working on tool. so not doen much with opensim [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: not really, but mono 2.10.5 is out [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: it had an interesting bug fix that caught my eye [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: Xamarin #12, Novell #690357 and many other incarnations of the same bug: Fix a threadpool bug that would hang the threadpool activity under no load. [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: 2.10.5 not so fast, i lose count [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: that is an interesting bug [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: yea [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: the "Lazy" mono bug [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: falls asleep and never awakes [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: we were seeing something like this on our plaza06 server [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: occasionally i had to reboot the server entirely [10:11] Richardus Raymaker: mabysoiund like the 16% instance cpu use bug. not sen it for a while [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: because all the regions on that server would start spewing about threading [10:11] OtakuMegane Desu: When did that bug fix go in? [10:11] Spike Sol: good evening Ladys and Gentlemens [10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hello spike [10:11] Richardus Raymaker: hello spike [10:11] BlueWall Slade: Hi [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: a few of the regions on that server sit idle for days [10:11] Sarah Kline: hi [10:12] Kev Brinner: good evening [10:12] Richardus Raymaker: where is the source download. the 2.10.4 i could not find to [10:12] Spike Sol: Hi Hev [10:12] Spike Sol: Kev [10:12] Kev Brinner: tag spike [10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi kev [10:12] BlueWall Slade: Hi [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://download.mono-project.com/sources/mono/mono-2.10.5.tar.bz2 [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: http://download.mono-project.com/sources/libgdiplus/libgdiplus-2.10.tar.bz2 [10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm current wrestlying with attachment code.... [10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: which I only begun with a view to fixing an npc issue, but now it's taking on a life of its own [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: heh, that is sort of good thing [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: it needed love [10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: boy, it's a fricking mess [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be one of the bigger complaints lately [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: the inconsistent attach state thing [10:14] BlueWall Slade: that scripted attach fix is a good one [10:14] Richardus Raymaker: ok. thx so that link works again [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I did a fix for IAS though I don't know if it's complete [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: k cool [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i need to push out a new OSgrid release [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to do that today [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be good [10:14] Sarah Kline: great [10:14] Richardus Raymaker: oh, how easy can the remote admin command be expanded ? [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: if i can pry myself away from Blender for 10 minutes [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:15] BlueWall Slade: hehe [10:15] Sarah Kline: heheh [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: i need to attend a Blenders Annonymous meeting [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not too difficult [10:15] VivK Lowlag: 12 steps [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/101558395514182710128/posts/BCePUG6LaNE [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: this is what ive been making as I am learning [10:16] Richardus Raymaker: cool, nice nebadon [10:16] Sarah Kline: thats nice [10:16] Richardus Raymaker: a few more prims i think and it makes sound [10:16] Allen Kerensky: damn thats really nice Nebadon - kudos [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: thanks [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: here is what it looks like loaded into OpenSiim [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/101558395514182710128/posts/5T969MGYus1 [10:17] Allen Kerensky: really seems like OSG has turned a corner over the summer - cool new projects - massive code fixes - more people - roleplay's kicking off [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: nice [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: now it just needs to be scripted to actually play notes ;) [10:17] Allen Kerensky: yeah that worked really well on the import [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: and for the keys to move up and down..... [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: heh that might be a bit difficult [10:18] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey grins [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: that's where prims are still handy, I guess [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: but i do have plans to atleast make the keys all be touchable [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: all the keys are 6 prims total [10:18] Allen Kerensky: how about MIDI with aftertouch? *evilgrin* [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i am able to break them up into 8 and 7 touchable surfaces [10:18] Richardus Raymaker: since when do the have 1 mono file. and not seperate lib ? [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: which i plan to do [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: so, did you get to the bottom of 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 crashing with meshes, or is that still around? [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: no [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: its still happening [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: urrrrgh [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i might have to purge my sandbox eventually [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: im still sort of waiting it out though [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's very difficult to address things which happen with older content [10:19] Sarah Kline: for me too..blue screen with 3.0 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i tested yesterdays daily build yesterday [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: especially with so many other things to fix [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: it instantly crashes [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: god [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i see grass for like 1 second [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: and boom [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: poofs away [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: so how do you feel about mesh now? [10:20] Sarah Kline: I love it [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: well honestly i think its great, but its a bit discouraging about the crashing [10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [10:20] Richardus Raymaker: well, its intressting. if there where viewers to look at it :\ [10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: and these are now production viewers? [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i guess the good news though [10:20] Sarah Kline: they are coming [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: is that the actual release veiewer on the LL download page does not crash [10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: that's 3.0.0. right? [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: but the beta and project development viewers both do [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea [10:21] Sarah Kline: lol it does for me [10:21] Richardus Raymaker: yes, but the sidebar is stillthere. and deteach makes iot so you cannot drop it to buttons down. [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: it instantly crashes on login Sarah? [10:21] Sarah Kline: strange [10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so I think I asked, but the crashing mesh are actually quite recent? Not stuff uploaded via the older method? [10:21] Bri Hasp: true.. the newest LL3 for general public works well for me [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: 3.0.1 i have not been able to log in to Reticulation even one time [10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I wish the viewers were more crash resistant.... [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: or anything newer [10:22] Sarah Kline: yes after one ok log in the next was machine lock up [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: tried that one short in sl. big mistake [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: i have never logged in one successfuly yet [10:22] Sarah Kline: do you use nvidia card? [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: i can log in fine to Second Life though [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: just not my mesh sandbox on OSgrid [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: its not a driver issue Sarah [10:22] Bri Hasp: I do.. switch between 295 and 460 [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: the 3 viewer where good, if the remove the sidebar. [10:23] Bri Hasp: hahs [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: hmm 295 yummie. wich one is better bri ? [10:23] Sarah Kline: there is a jira for the nvidia bug [10:23] Bri Hasp: 295 by far ...stable [10:23] VivK Lowlag: I found after the latest nvidia upgrade on 3 pc's to uninstall and reload plug and play helps [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: i have 275 its fine to [10:24] Bri Hasp: I use kirsten mostly [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: reload plug and play? [10:24] VivK Lowlag: in device manager [10:24] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, kirsten i can try it again. but last time it did not start at all [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: on Windows 7? [10:24] VivK Lowlag: yes [10:24] Richardus Raymaker: linux [10:24] Bri Hasp: 7-64 [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: well i have re-installed the drivers [10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I've found 2.8.3 to be very stable on ubuntu 11.04 64 bit [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: even went back to to an older version [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: was no help what so ever [10:25] Richardus Raymaker: eeuw ubuntu 11.04 thats a bad version [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: like i said i can log into secondlife fine [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: its not crashed even one time in SL [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: wha? what's wrong with 11.04? [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: its crashed 100% of the time in OpenSim [10:25] Sarah Kline: oh [10:25] Sarah Kline: oh dear [10:25] Richardus Raymaker: its not stable. it start to slowdown programs sometimes and other weird things [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: it sounds like we're sending stuff t othe viewer that it's just not expecting [10:25] Sarah Kline: yes worrying [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: Sarah give it a shot [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: after meeting [10:25] Sarah Kline: ok [10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: sounds more like ahw problem [10:25] VivK Lowlag: I haven't had any problem with 3.0 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: download the latest beta veiwer [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: and try logging in to Reticulation [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: so far no one can [10:26] VivK Lowlag: did yesterday [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: several people have tried [10:26] Sarah Kline: the latest official release one [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: i have identified atleast 15 mesh that crash that viewer [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: but there are many many more [10:26] Richardus Raymaker: besides your in pretty fight on 11.04 to remove that unity crab justin [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: reticulation doesn't crash 3.0.0? [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: 11.04 its justin windows :P [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes, that was annoying [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: correct Justin [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: i mean you may crash occasionaly [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: but with 3.0.1 you can not log in ever [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, another thing to look at [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: but [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: if i make a brand new sim or go to a sim with no mesh [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: but 10.04 is doing weird last 2 days to. hmm. [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: it logs in fine [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: and new mesh don't cause the issue? [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: not so far [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: but if i even rez one of these bad mesh [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer crashes instantly [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: as soo as i rez [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: and those bad old mesh aren't very old? [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: no [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: they are after the last format changes [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: few weeks [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: mmmmm [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: some were only a few days [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: some were like 24-48 hours old [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: when i started noticing [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: its very odd for sure [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: must be some bad data [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: not all mesh though are doing it [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: some mesh that were uploaded within minutes of each other 1 is fine 1 is bad [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: or maybe the viewer was ignoring some field before that it's not decided to choke on [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: now [10:29] VivK Lowlag: maybe it's something walled garden wrote in their viewer if't not on SL crash the viewer [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: i even fired up an old Pentium 4 machine [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: with an AGP ATI video card [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: it also crashed instantly [10:30] Bri Hasp: anyone use 3ds Max 2010 3D program? [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: vivk: the tpv devvelopers would see that v quickly [10:30] VivK Lowlag: it's a joke [10:30] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey grins [10:31] Allen Kerensky: the viewer dev list did talk about XML changes to mesh between v2.x and v3.x viewers [10:31] Allen Kerensky: and the servers returning some codes differently [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it might be something like that [10:31] Richardus Raymaker: ? "lunch kirsten viewqer S21" no not a type from me [10:31] VivK Lowlag: they are also complaining the number of changes that they can't keep up [10:31] Allen Kerensky: within the last 2-3 weeks I think [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: Allen, this started later than that [10:31] Bri Hasp: also try 2011.3 Autodesk COLLADA exporter to a Collada 1.4 file then import [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: this started a week or two after that [10:32] Allen Kerensky: ah well - rule that out then [10:32] Richardus Raymaker: it seems tatatra can export as mesh to. offcorse maby not so good as blender. [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: the thing to do would be to compare the crashing mesh data with the noncrashing stuff and work out the difference [10:32] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: that means inspecting assets dumps directly [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahla [10:33] Sarah Kline: is this mesh you created ? [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: here is the exact date it started [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: Thursday, August 11, 2011 12:23:57 AM (1313047437) [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: there is a console command line to dump an asset to a file [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/rev/238249/index.html [10:33] Sarah Kline: that crashes [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: this viewer [10:33] BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: is the 1st viewer that crashing starts [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: if i go back 1 viewer prior to this [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: crashing stops [10:33] Bri Hasp: byes.. work calls [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: bye bri [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: bye Bri [10:33] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, kirsten forgot the grid choicer ? [10:34] Dahlia Trimble: bye Bri :) [10:34] Allen Kerensky: isn't there a git command that shows changes between source trees? [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: Kirstens has never had grid chooser [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear the firestorm guys are planning to put it in [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: Kirstens is primarily for LL grid [10:34] Sarah Kline: hmm that one was working ok for me, but if i go look at your meshes [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: Really need to implement multi-attachments [10:35] Allen Kerensky: really need a way to grow many more opensim coders and grid admins to help out [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: firestorm, dont like that one [10:35] Sarah Kline: firestorm viewing mesh only so far, and they are actually working with Kokura team lol [10:35] Allen Kerensky: mumble learn mono mumble grok massive opensim source tree mumble increase time to 48 hour days [10:35] Sarah Kline: and adding more opensim support [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: allen: yes. I think one step for that is to bring in the CA and eliminate the 6 month barrier [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: allen: heh [10:35] Dahlia Trimble: astra displays mesh [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: Cool viewer does also [10:36] Allen Kerensky: hmm someone else uses cool viewer? [10:36] Allen Kerensky: wild [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: im restricted with viewers. most32bit did not run for soem reason. [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: very bad [10:36] Sarah Kline: yes all starting to happen [10:36] VivK Lowlag: I do sometimes [10:37] Allen Kerensky: just surprising - I thought I was the only one - based on the viewer tags I usually see [10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear that mumble no longer works with opensim master? [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: what do i wrong ? --loginurl http://login.osgrid.org/ [10:37] Dahlia Trimble: one dash [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: -loginuri http://login.osgrid.org -loginpage http://osgrid.org/splash -helperuri http://helper.osgrid.org/ [10:38] Allen Kerensky: loginuri with an i, not an l [10:38] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, then the wiki need a update from sl [10:38] Dahlia Trimble: -loginuri [10:38] Richardus Raymaker: unknown -l [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: you must have a space [10:38] Richardus Raymaker: i have. [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: copy the line i put above [10:39] Richardus Raymaker: ohh wait its uri not url [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: I have a feeling that mono patch you did probably did help Justin [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: probably should get sent to mono guys [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: let's give it another couple of weeks [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: its sucha simple patch [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's not ideal but hopefully they can develop it appropriately [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm kind of surprised that bug is there though, assuming it is a bug [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i still have one more server i need to upgrade to 2.10.5 and apply that patch [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: though i have not really seen that same crash anywhere but this sim [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: so you're putting tha tpatch on all the plazas now? [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: which makes it even more strange [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:42] Dahlia Trimble: what does the patch do? [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: plaza01 and plaza02 [10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it might be a corner case, which is why it hasn't been fixed up till now [10:42] Richardus Reinard: hmm, kirsten forgot the chat bar in deteched window ?? [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5571 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: that is the mantis Dahlia [10:42] VivK Lowlag: one thing noticeable eeven more is lack of chat lag [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: chat lag is a tough one [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of the time when there is chat lag it can be network related too [10:43] VivK Lowlag: it hasn't happened yet [10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, if the web read fails it throws the appropriate exception rather than carrying on and later failing on the buffer read [10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: it's actually some anomolies with the header data that causes the exception, I think [10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if mono have eimplemented thread prioritization yet [10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: or whether they ever will. [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: heh [10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: because it would be good to prioritize some thread s(e.g. chat) over others [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: couldnt we do that in our own methods? [10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm sure there are improvements, but we can't do much about scheduling priority [10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: every time chat is received it excutes on its own thread from the pool [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which is why it sometimes appears out of order - some threads are held for longer than others in stress situations [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: ah [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: one thing i have noticed before with out of order chat [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: in theory you could enforce ordering ubt that starts getting more complex [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: that is usally only local to you [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: ive had times when i had 2 or 3 avatars in [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, that kind of chat is usually due to droped packets :) [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: and the other 2 avatars saw the order fine [10:46] Richardus Reinard: where are meshes to see ? [10:46] BlueWall Slade: we use SmartThreadPool, right? [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which is the other big cuase, probably more major [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: but avatar who was speaking only saw the out of order [10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: 50 minutes after my PDA reminded me of this meeting, I finally made it. Too distracted by some other coding I was doing. [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: mostly [10:46] BlueWall Slade: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/threads/smartthreadpool.aspx [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: hi andrew [10:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone [10:47] Sarah Kline: reticulation richardus [10:47] BlueWall Slade: it says they have prioritization [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, they might do it, but mono has been ignoring it [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: the apis are just stubs [10:47] BlueWall Slade: grrrrr [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: at least, they were last time i looked [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: haven't looked for a while, though [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: it might be some fundamental issue with doing this on unix systems, for all I know [10:48] Rocker Able: hello all likeing this grid [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hello Rocker [10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: hello rocker [10:48] Dahlia Trimble: are threads managed in mono or in the kernel? [10:48] Kev Brinner: hi rocker [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: good question [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: i would assume kernel [10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: kernel ultimately [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: on our plaza06 server lately we have seen an issue where the entire server needs to be rebooted [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: the plazas all start complaining about can not start a new thread [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: and only option has been to reboot fedora [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: the suse servers have never done it [10:49] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: sounds liek thread exhaustion [10:49] Richardus Raymaker: what kernel version ? [10:49] Richardus Raymaker: have the idea newer kernels do weird things. (ubuntu 11.04) [10:49] Justin Clark-Casey: if something managed to tie up every thread that would be problematic... [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: 2.6.34.8-68.fc13.x86_64 [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: btw, never use Fedora 13 [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: its horrible [10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: it's so not gonna be kernel :) [10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: it will be either opensim or mono [10:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm that must be fine. i seen weird things on my system with 2.6.38+ [10:50] Dahlia Trimble: I prefer debian :) [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: my 1st choice is suse [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: but this server company didnt offer it [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: and their self install was absurdly expensive [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: 50$ an hour for KVM access [10:50] Richardus Raymaker: suse for server, or windows [10:51] BlueWall Slade: a lot of times they will install most anything you ask for. [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: well [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: thts expensive. here KVM in datacenter cost 25 euro month [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i got this server on 50% discount sale [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: unless you add your own kvm card [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: they were not offering any extras [10:51] BlueWall Slade: haa [10:51] Rocker Able: are groups working here? [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its a Dual Socket Xeon with 16gb ram [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: for 122$ a month [10:51] BlueWall Slade: sweet [10:52] OtakuMegane Desu: That's not bad [10:52] Richardus Raymaker: well a kvm card is cheaper then, if you have pci. http://www.aten.com/products/productItem.php?model_no=IP8000 [10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: rocker: yes [10:53] Rocker Able: wow i just found ot awesome [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: :) [10:53] Richardus Raymaker: for 16GB its very cheap one nebadon [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya superb.net, not a bad company [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: not my 1st choice [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: but they were holding a big 50% off select servers sale [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: its not a new server [10:54] OtakuMegane Desu: Actuallly once you're hitting dual-socket hardware 16GB is pretty easy to drop in. Tend to have lllots of slots. [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: its older Dual socket Dual core xeon [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: for 4 cores [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: it works ok though [10:54] Richardus Raymaker: but, with 16GB ! [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: memory is so cheap anymore [10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhhh hardware chat [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: seeing as we're coming to the top of the hour - any more opensim issues? [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: well some good news [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: Bulletsim went in to core today [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: its very close to being useable [10:55] Sarah Kline: ) [10:55] Andrew Hellershanks: woohoo [10:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh cool [10:55] Richardus Raymaker: for desktops. for servers the let you pay the lottery [10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: cool. Been doing more testing? [10:55] Dahlia Trimble: ooou I need to play with it :) [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: most of the basic stuff is working [10:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Richardus: Depends where you get it lolll [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: no vehicles yet [10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: does mesh work? [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: but hopefull soon [10:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Damn L key.. [10:56] Justin Clark-Casey: physics proxies, I mean [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: I have not tested [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i will though [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i am gonna start new round of testing today [10:56] Andrew Hellershanks: What's missing on vehicle support side? [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: radams says he is checking in fix for x64 linux support later today some time [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew not sure 100%, ping radams1 on opensim-dev [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: he can fill you in [10:56] Richardus Raymaker: verhicles. we need plane engine support [10:57] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, k [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: or the tech devs have a betetr word for the engines [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: i forgot right now [10:57] Rocker Able: any news on mesh suport guys? [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: ? [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we have Mesh support too Rocker [10:57] Sarah Kline: as long as my golf cart works [10:57] Sarah Kline: giggles [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think right now vehicles are just not working [10:58] Dahlia Trimble: mesh support pretty much works except for convex hulls [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: but radams has my racer [10:58] Rocker Able: super i model in 3 d studio max [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: and its being worked on [10:58] Sarah Kline: ok ) [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: have you heard of this mesh crashing bug? [10:58] Dahlia Trimble: nope [10:58] Dahlia Trimble: wouldnt surprise me if there was one tho [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon says that 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 crash out on certain meshes on reticulation [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: the region reticulation, that is [10:59] Rocker Able: uses collida .dea for mesh? [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: and these aren't very old meshes either [10:59] Dahlia Trimble: oh viewer crashes? [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya can not even log in at all [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it sounds like something coming out of opensim is triggering it [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: nothing in the viewer crash log? [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: nothing that makes any sense to me [10:59] Dahlia Trimble: older assets I bet [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: some of the assets Dahlia [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: were uploaded 24-48 hours before that new viewer was released [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: on the 3.0.0 viewer [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: the thing to do would be to dump a bad asset from the asset database an dcompare that with a dump of a good asset [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: all of the assets? [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: no but what i did was load the OAR into a local sim [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: and took everything into inventory [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: erased the entire sim [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: then rezzed 1 item at a time [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: until things started crashing [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i isolated about 15 items so far [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: not sure whats mesh. but it looks all cool there nebadon [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: but the odd part is [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i have mesh that were uploaded within minutes of each other [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: my first time i see mesh [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: 1 works fine [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: 1 crashes the viewer [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: even some are the same exact object [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: uploaded within minutes of each other [11:01] BlueWall Slade: I have to take offf, see you all next week [11:01] Dahlia Trimble: well the viewer makes the assets, so not miuch we can do [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: see you BluewWall [11:01] Sarah Kline: bye blue [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:01] VivK Lowlag: bye Bluewall [11:01] Dahlia Trimble: bye [11:01] Rocker Able: any links for mesh like a tutorial ? [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: its a shitty bug for sure [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye bluewall [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i am hoping that it does get fixed [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that's a good point [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: it's curious that it doesn't crash on the sl grid, though [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: my viewer has sent LL about 250 dump reports [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: quite literally [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ha ha - maybe they'll fix it ;) [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: at least kirsten seems not to crash. its only laggy slow for me [11:02] Sarah Kline: I'm sure that it can be quite buggy in SL [11:02] Dahlia Trimble: I think the LL sims do add some fields to the asset [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: well, you payed enouygh to them nebadon. so let them do something :)) [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I've only uploaded one mesh to SL so far using Viewer 3.0.3 [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: oh [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya every day i test the daily builds [11:03] Dahlia Trimble whispers: like creator perhaps? [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: so we'll see [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: im trying to be patient [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:03] Dahlia Trimble: maybe some havok stuff [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: if that was the case one might expect all mesh to crash thogh [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya what is even more odd [11:03] Dahlia Trimble: maybe they do eventually [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: is if i started a fresh new sim [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and uploaded mesh with 3.0.1+ viewers [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: its fine [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ive not been able to make it crash that way yet [11:04] Dahlia Trimble: maybe wiping the sim doesnt quite work [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: so i might be forced to just erase my sandbox [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and start over [11:04] Dahlia Trimble: Im surprised older assets work at all [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I wish the viewer were more robust [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that is surprising [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: but for now i'll keep it intact for a few more weeks [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: these are not older assets [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: probably easier to leave the functionality in thatn risk ripping it out, though [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: after the last mesh format change [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i wiped the sandbox [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: these are all 2.8.x+ mesh [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: a TPV might be more inclined to fix it [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: to bad you still have the LOD problem [11:05] Dahlia Trimble whispers: how did you wipe it? [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: but we need to be more tpv firendly [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i cleared all the content from the region [11:05] Dahlia Trimble: how? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: started totally fresh [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: this is in OpenSim [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i just wiped out the database [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: and server cache? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: the crash never happens in SL [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried clearning all the caches [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: and viewer cache? [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: k [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i even loaded the oar from OSgrid to Local sim [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: 1st login crashed [11:06] Dahlia Trimble: its probably something else [11:06] Dahlia Trimble: try in a prim region? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya so far ive not seen anything that seems consistent [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i have [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer never crashes if there is no mesh prim present [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: and on my local test sim [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: i have about 45 mesh rezzed [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: without crashing [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: but i isolated about 15 mesh as the sandbox [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: that crash the viewer as soon as I rez them [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: just poofs away as soon as i rez it [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon. its not something with the 0.0.0 crash we still have with other viewers sometimes ? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: nah [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its not related to that [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: cause if i relog with 3.0.0 viewer [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the item i just rezzed that crashed the viewer is where its supposed to be [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. well we know who made the viewer... [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and do things [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I have to get going. See you next week. [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Revolution told me though [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: bye andrew [11:08] VivK Lowlag: bye JCC [11:08] Dahlia Trimble: ya me too. Bye all :) [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: that 3.0.1 LL has refactored how textures are handled [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [11:09] Animah Capalini: bye Dhalia [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: but to be honest i am not sure if its related to that or not [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some of the prims that crash the viewer [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: have no textures at all [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: shouldn't be, but who knows [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: one of the prims is pretty much a box [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: with some holes in it [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I think I'll visit reticulation quickly, though it won't crash my 2.8.3 [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks later [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: see you justin [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you want a copy of the oar [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: let me know [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i can even send you an IAR with the bad prims [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I will [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: it's on my list - along with everything else in the universe [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: thanks man [11:10] VivK Lowlag: woohoo a no crash meeting [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: but we need to have a stable mesh before releaing 0.7.2 I think [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya good start [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: its actually been a few weeks since no crash [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: still the framerate with kirsten is so much better. [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. there is one issue to fix and then hopefully the web request problem has gone away - you never know [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: that would be great :) [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ok well thanks everyone for coming [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: upgraded to 2.10.5 [11:11] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: same time next week [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin