Chat log from the meeting on 2016-10-25

[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good afternoon, everyone [11:08] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: So what does it mean on the Git 'flip master'? [11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: flip master? Where does it say that? [11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org looks [11:09] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: the shortlog - entry from Diva Canto [11:09] Kayaker Magic: I see gray people. Oh, you are supposed to be gray James! [11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh. It refers to updating the version noted in the code. [11:09] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: I am so gray. [11:10] Kayaker Magic: Not to be confused with gay. [11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It should really use the word "change" or "update" instead of flip. [11:10] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Not geeky enough Andrew [11:10] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: OK thanks. [11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm not sure why Diva marked it as 0.9.1 since we haven't had a release of 0.9 yet. [11:11] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: gay gray - is it meme time? [11:11] Kayaker Magic: Anybody know if Nebanon is coming? I'm curious about the state of OSCC [11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think because 9.0 is on a branch and master is now the next one [11:12] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, I was at the last meeting and proposal acceptance letters should be going out soon. [11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'll keep an eye out for him. I haven't seen him on the IRC today. [11:13] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Last OSCC organizing meeting also accomplished a decent draft of a schedule. [11:13] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Oooo I am voice enabled tonight! Comes and goes randomly on log in... [11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The version change was made in master. [11:18] Kayaker Magic: Robert, how goes the battle with mantis 8010? [11:19] Robert Adams: I played with it and decided the problem was deep inside Bullet... somehow the collision is being sensed by the collision manifolds weren't showing the events [11:20] Kayaker Magic: wow! [11:20] Robert Adams: I'm not sure if updating Bullet engine or moving to Bullet3 would be better [11:20] Robert Adams: sadly, I don't have a short term fix for it yet [11:21] Kayaker Magic: (8010 is a bug where objects collide but do not report collision events to scripts waiting for them) [11:21] Robert Adams: Bullet has some oddities to it (when applied to OpenSimulator).... like surface collied on both sides which doesn't happen in SL physics... so there is some code to overcome that [11:21] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: ah the old bullet collision misses, thats been around for awhile [11:22] Robert Adams: I could be computnig the collision normal wrong.... but, again, it is kinda low level [11:22] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: thank you for the explanation [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Robert mentioned Bullet3. Has there been some more work on that physics engine? [11:24] Robert Adams: I can duplicate it... that's a good thing... I have a gun that shoots cubes at a wall... and they sometimes bounce without a collision event... that should not happen [11:24] Robert Adams: the work on Bullet3 seems to be really slow.... I originally (years ago) went with Bullet because it was supposed to have hardware acceleration [11:25] Robert Adams: now, years later, it still doesn't [11:25] Robert Adams: and now there is Bullet3... when the Bullet author was hired by Google, I thought we'd get lots more progress... but it still seems to be a hobby [11:26] Robert Adams: Bullet3 has hardware acceleration but there are library problems (the OpenCL/CV/... interfaces keep changing) and Bullet3 doesn't have all the constraint implementations and optimizations that Bullet2 has [11:27] Robert Adams: so, I'm kinda left wondering where to go with physics [11:27] Robert Adams: I'd like to make a physics engine that is just a region module [11:27] Kayaker Magic: I heard HiFi is using BulletSim, do you know which one? [11:28] Robert Adams: that would allow remoting physics (running on another machine) and otherwise eliminating all the specialized code that's embedded in the simulator.... that's a bigger project [11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Robert, does the current structure of OpenSim make it possible to run a physics engine as a region module? [11:29] Robert Adams: HiFi is using the Bullet physics engine... they are using 2.82 [11:29] Robert Adams: "BulletSim" is the adaption of the Bullet physics engine for OpenSimulator (to keep the terminology correct) [11:30] Robert Adams: Andrew: I think so since we were able to the Distribute Scene Graph (DSG) version of OpenSImulator... [11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ok [11:31] Robert Adams: there are some hooks for LSL functions (especially vehicles) that would need to be added... so, I think there will need to be some more events and some API additions but it should be 95% there [11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: At some point you will need to decide which way to go on the physics engine so you can concentrate on just one. [11:33] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: fascinating discussion [11:35] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Good discussion of bullet physics [11:35] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: cool [11:35] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Why do we need several physics? Thought ubODE was to become the standard... [11:35] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org ruft: me too George [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe... Don dodged a bullet. [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org grins [11:36] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: =) [11:36] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, which engine seems best for vehicles/boats? [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Still no sign of nebadon on IRC. I don't think he will be here today, or he will be rather late. [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Has anyone seen a summery of pros and cons of the different physics engines? [11:38] Kayaker Magic: I do a lot of non-physical boats, so I often don't care which engine is used [11:38] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Will repeat question now that Robert is back - Why do we need several physics?  Thought ubODE was to become the standard... [11:38] Robert Adams: that "standard" physics engine should be the one that works for the content creators.... if UBit keeps working on ubODE, it could easily displace BulletSim [11:38] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i prefer quantum physics, the learning curve is steep but its randomness makes more sense in the end......  [11:38] Kayaker Magic: I care when llCastRay works well, and some physics engines do that for you. [11:39] Robert Adams: BulletSim because the 'standard' because it was better than the old ODE... [11:39] Robert Adams: may be best physics engine win :) [11:39] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: So, wait and see then... [11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:40] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: I use ubODE, and can drive, sail and fly fine [11:40] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: never worked well on Bullet [11:40] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: for me at least [11:40] Robert Adams: and all the code is available... someone could sit down and add llCastRay for BulletSim.... the underlying Bullet physics engine has the code... there is just a lot of plumbing and such to add [11:43] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: For gaming, is ODE enough for... bullets? [11:43] Kayaker Magic: Perhaps ODE is good enough for bullets, the default llCastRay is not. [11:45] Robert Adams: there is a "does the physics engine support raycast" check.... ODE and ubODE say "yes' so the physics engine function is used [11:45] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev       586e4cf: 2016-10-17 19:16:07 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I tried to get a hot air balloon working in latest OpenSim with BulletSim but it still doesn't work properly. I can't even get it off the ground. [11:46] Robert Adams: BulletSim currently says 'no' so a software only test is done.... that test only uses the object bounding boxes so it was inaccurate as well as being slower [11:46] Kayaker Magic: One of the other llCastRays sees phantom objects when you tell it not to (I forget, if that is V3 or upODE). [11:46] Robert Adams: the buoyancy vehicle functions aren't working in BulletSim? [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: It doesn't appear to be working. I'll have to look more closely at the scripts to see which functions it is using to make the balloon move. [11:55] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: testing testing...../taps on the mic......is anyone there? < no chat for 8 min, whats up? > [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:56] Kayaker Magic: I ran out of questions for today [11:56] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: .../dies of shock [11:56] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: ROFL [11:56] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: ..../waits for kayakers lol [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: If this meeting has gotten this quiet we should just wrap things up for today. [11:57] Kayaker Magic: Justa about lunch time here. [11:57] Don.Smith @grid.kitely.com:8002: i could do a few minutes of comedy, but we'd probably all dobetter if we wrap it up instead, rofl [11:58] James atLLOUD: I have an oddball question. Is simhost still hosting the wiki? [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: which wiki? [12:00] James atLLOUD: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page [12:00] James atLLOUD: just curious to whom to be thankful [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: No idea. I just see opensimulator.org as the host. No idea what machine(s) are running it. [12:02] James atLLOUD: ok, like I said, just curious.