Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-13

 [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi bluewall, folks [11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: justin is faster then nebadon. wow [11:01] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Hello Justin [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure if Nebadon is going to be around. Has anyone seen him? [11:02] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Hello Arielle [11:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: he was in irc a little while ago [11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi arielle [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: oh ok [11:02]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Rira :) [11:02]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: |Hi Seth, Aine, Justin Blue [11:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Arielle [11:02]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Billy [11:02]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi billy [11:03]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600 waves [11:03]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: o/ [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: did anyone actually try this pgsql user profiles class? It looks like there are a ton of bugs in it [11:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: unfortunately not a lot [11:04]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Fernando's thingy? [11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: I believe so [11:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Arielle, no - he didn't put that in [11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hee, bugs need to hide somewhere.. :) [11:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: he contributed a partial Pgsql adapter ... [11:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no groups, profiles, etc. [11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: git log says this class originated with him [11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm [11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think I copy-pasted it [11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, the PgSQL is waaayy different. [11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:05]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hey Neb [11:05]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Hello Neb [11:05]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I spend some time on that a while back, but I had to break off ... [11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb [11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I see you arelady made quite a few fixes at 18121cec [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: but there's still a lot of similar stuff wrong with it, which I'm now blind fixing [11:06] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: almost  typoed "hey Newb" [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, 1812cec [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I lost soem hardware here and had time constraints [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi neb [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I was trying to bring up a dev grid on PgSQL, but didn't quite make it. [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Neb - over the Flu? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya mostly [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: im like 99% now heh [11:07] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: did you get a flu shot? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: I did not [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: infact i have never had one before [11:07] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: oh usually they the only  ones that get the flu [11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: flu shot onlky mkaes you sick :O [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they say it doesn't work this year, anyway [11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: no never did got one [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe 3% effective [11:08] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: must have been close to someone who did [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: my sisters kids god me sick, coughing all over everything lol [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hehe [11:08] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ban them [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ah well probably better to get sick every so often [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: any opensim questions today? [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: I don't really have anything myself this week [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I leave for Sweden tomorrow for 15 days [11:10] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hush falls over the crowd [11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: whoohoo - send back photos :) [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: so its unlikely I will be here next week, but if I can I will be [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: just not sure about my schedule totally yet [11:10]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: We still experience network related issues with regions when a visitor has high packet latencies. I was unable to collect stats due to a new error that shows up intermittently [11:10]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Have fun with the internet there nebadon ;) [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: seth: new error? [11:11] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: 2015-01-11 14:23:28,898 ERROR - OpenSim.Application Command error: System.InvalidCastException: Cannot cast from source type to destination type. at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.LindenUDP.LLUDPServer.GetTotalQueuedOutgoingPackets [0x00024] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/UDP/LLUDPServer.cs:737 at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.LindenUDP.LLUDPServer.m__8 (OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.Stat stat) [0x00002] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/UDP/LLUDPServer.cs:714 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.Stat.get_Value [0x00014] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/Stats/Stat.cs:85 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.Stat.ToConsoleString [0x00031] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/Stats/Stat.cs:234 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.GetContainerStatsReports (System.Collections.Generic.SortedDictionary`2 container) [0x00023] in [11:11] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002:  /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:216 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.GetCategoryStatsReports (System.Collections.Generic.SortedDictionary`2 category) [0x00023] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:199 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.GetAllStatsReports [0x00027] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:182 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.OutputAllStatsToConsole (ICommandConsole con) [0x00002] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:189 at OpenSim.Framework.Monitoring.StatsManager.HandleShowStatsCommand (System.String module, System.String[] cmd) [0x0007e] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Monitoring/StatsManager.cs:114 at OpenSim.Framework.Console.Commands.Resolve (System.String[] cmd) [0x00063] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Console/CommandConsole.cs:495 at [11:11] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002:  OpenSim.Framework.Console.LocalConsole.ReadLine (System.String p, Boolean isCommand, Boolean e) [0x00439] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Console/LocalConsole.cs:557 at OpenSim.Framework.Console.CommandConsole.Prompt [0x00014] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Framework/Console/CommandConsole.cs:757 at OpenSim.Application.Main (System.String[] args) [0x00416] in /opt/opensim/src/opensim/OpenSim/Region/Application/Application.cs:332 [11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: failing url / inventory info retrieve still gives a lot of ..net spew instead of a short console error. unless its fix in dev. [11:11] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: I get that sometimes after issuing a stats record start or stats show all [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: wierd error [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i havent seen console errors like that in forever [11:12] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: When that occurs I get no stats [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: what version of mono? [11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: That would be an easy one to track down [11:12] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Oddly it seeems to go away on its own without any restart [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: does it happen when you resize the console? [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: that used to happen a lot [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: seth: it doesn't occur every 5 seconds? [11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 2014-11-11 23:59:04,866 DEBUG - OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Framework.UserManagement.UserManagementModule [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed System.Net.WebException: The remote server returned an error: (502) Bad Gateway. at System.Net.HttpWebRequest.GetResponse at Nwc.XmlRpc.XmlRpcRequest.Send(String url, Int32 timeout) at OpenSim.Services.Connectors.Hypergrid.UserAgentServiceConnector.CallServer(String methodName, Hashtable hash) in m:\opensim-0.8.0.3-source\OpenSim\Services\Connectors\Hypergrid\UserAgentServiceConnector.cs:line 197 at OpenSim.Services.Connectors.Hypergrid.UserAgentServiceConnector.GetServerURLs(UUID userID) in m:\opensim-0.8.0.3-source\OpenSim\Services\Connectors\Hypergrid\UserAgentServiceConnector.cs:line 498 at OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Framework.UserManagement.UserManagementModule.GetUserServerURL(UUID userID, String serverType) in m:\opensim-0.8.0.3-source\OpenSim\Region\CoreModules\Framework\UserManagement\UserManagementModule.cs:line 4 [11:13] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: mono 3.2.8 [11:13] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: No, it occurrs only the once but no stats are recorded when it happens [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: strange [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i see the one rira posted a lot [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I wonder if that error above may be something with friends list [11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes, would be nice if the exception get intercepted and replace for small ,message [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: a friend on a grid that is down or no longer exists [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: seth: so on other "show stats" invocations it'#s fine? [11:14] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: it is Neb [11:14] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: yes [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya we should probably supress that message to a warning [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: really odd. It must be a casting error but then it should occur every time [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I will fix it [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: not really fixable, but it could be more human friendly [11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Thats what i mean nebadon. because the whole error is a bit overdone [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, at the moment that stuff is raw but ultimately it shouldn't spew [11:15] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: It has prevented me from capturing stats when I have really wanted to [11:15]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: so and so grid is curreently offline [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: without the typo [11:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone :) [11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: ya it would be nice if it was more informative of who the person was [11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: waht revisions opensim are you using? [11:16]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Alicia [11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Alicia [11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: revision [11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: Is this a scene with NPCs? [11:17]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: I've seen that with several versions; OpenSim 0.8.1 Devr/25624 bb82076a4d 25-Dec-2014 and as recent at Jan 7th [11:18]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, I think those regions would have had NPCs at the time [11:18]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, they did [11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I think I see where I probably screwed up. I will fix it [11:18]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: That would explain also what I only see it when we are having events and such [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i wiush rong s;lashes where auto corrected by opensim. because i used the wrong one in the past [11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and today I just hit the same problem AI Austin was reporting where all of my NPC were showing as UMMTGUN9 [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: I effectiveyl assumed in code that every ScenePresence has an attached UDPClient, which is not the case for NPCs [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: hence probablyi the casting exception. HO hum [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it only happened in the region that's running on our main server, not on any NPC on my self-hosted ones [11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [11:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [11:22]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dalhia [11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hello Dahlia [11:23] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: waves [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone else tested Roberts new changes for Avatars on Steps [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: seemed to work pretty well for me, though i only spent a couple of minutes [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes. I have [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: wondering if anyone saw any negative effects? [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: good/bad? [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: works fine with prims but a problme still with mesh [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I reported in the Mantis on it [11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt surprise me [11:25]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I was moving around some things like rocks and I was hanging up a little. [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure if Robert reads that though because he didn't make any sort of response to it [11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: i noticed i was able to walk clear over a conference room table [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: without even the slightest hesitation [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haa [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but the vaulting stopped [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: atleast i didnt notice that anymore [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: which is good [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: makes it easier for table dancing [11:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah, the rocks were sculpty prims, so that might have some bearing on it. [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I made a set of very basic 0.1m steps using prims and could walk up them just fine [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: Do you know waht his change was? [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe, mesh and sculpty I could possibly see issues [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then I made an identical mesh set and got stuck on them all the time [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: all he did was adjust some numbers I think [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: to make it more bearable, it wasnt a proper fix really [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it seems to be related to the slope [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: once the slope reaches around 0.2 or 0.25 it's fine [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: Robert made it sound like the way LL does stuff is not a good fit for Bullet [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if slope is less than that it's a problem still [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: the way avatar height is determined [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I guess the capsule needs some surface area to keep from falling through the terrain? [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: he seems leary to even touch it anymore [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: to be honest though I don't know enough about how bullet works there [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I think currently though we fake alot of stuff and heavily estimate, its not accurate at all [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: why you see things like folding feet [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: or hovering above the ground slightly [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: we do alot of guessing it seems [11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is the sit on terrain already fixt ? [11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: instead of sitting on prim [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Richardus, i wasnt even aware of problems there though [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think that has worked for some time [11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i mean, it dont groundsit on prim [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: oh on a prim [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: is it a large prim? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: like over 64m? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: damn it [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i guess thats a big no [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ihave not tried it for a long time [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: does not appear to work [11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think it fails on small ones to [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: wierd [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i see it start to sit on the prim [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: then my avatar poofs [11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: in the past it did send you straight to terrain [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: yep [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i see myself on the terrain under the building [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nope [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't understand. YOu're not talking abotu this prim? [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ground sit nebadon [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ctrl+alt+s justin [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it fails [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: what does that do? [11:32] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haaa [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: it sits you [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: supposed to sit you on whatever your standing on [11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: huh, never tried that before [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but it appears to miss all the prims and shoot you to terrain [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: raycast fail [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I never even knew this existed so never tested it before... [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: huh [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: so it's meant to sit you in the exact place on the prim? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: huh, its mentoined before in meetings [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh richardus, I can't always understand what you're saying very well [11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it where maby not me, and yes its sometimes hard [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I will mention that to Robert [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: is there a mantis Richardus? [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: also does it only happen with Bullet? [11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhmm. maby let me look at it [11:34] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Yes, that works on the terrain, but didn't know it was broken on prims. [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: be good if you could test with ODE too [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect it doesnt fail in ODE [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect this isn't a phys thing [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya hard to say [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, it's probably something I should look at [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you can that would be great [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it is handy [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: alot of people use it [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: I kind of have a feeling it might use physics raycast [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: to find the physics hull [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it shouldnt sit you on non physical things i dont think [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: anything phantom [11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not using ode anymore. [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: though there are probably other ways to do that check [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I imagine the viewer gives a sit position... and it may be ignored currently [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6813 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: cool [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes fails with ode to, [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: first report is with 0.7.6 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: hmm someone mentions alt+shift+s in the mantis [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but that does nothing for me at all [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh, bulletsim [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hehe [11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not fins ctrl-shift [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I put it on my list since it looks like it may well be a rgression [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I hope to start the next release cycle pretty soon [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok i see sit down. dont thionk i have that [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I don'tthink it has much to do with physics but won't know for sure until I look at this specifically [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not tried it with ode. but who want to use ode ? [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: :) [11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: I did just see a report that a certain vehicle causes big BulletSim cpu use [11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: which doesn't happen with that vehicle in ODE [11:39]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Verhicles can do weird with 0.8, sofar i have seen on sims [11:39]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Well since bullets don't work in bulletsim (mantis 6496) lots of people have gone back to ODE [11:39]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: possible faulty script to. where not mine [11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: I just pushed a fix for the exception btw in commit 55e0815 [11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: seth: the bug has been present since oct 2 2014 [11:40]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: OK, great. I'll make sure to grab that and update a few regions so we can test it [11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's difficult. Ideally, I would say it's never a scripts fault, it's up to the simulator to control script behaviour. But we live in a far from perfect world where it's simple for a script to cause problems atm [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I would like to have some way of limiting physics behaviour - atm there's not even a way to limit the number of phys objects afaik [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: yea probably not [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: though Bullet will cull physical objects [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: after a certain point [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: infact its to harsh right now [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: causes me issues with prim drops [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally you would limit based on available server time instead of some cruder number like number of phys prims [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: physical prims just freeze mid air [11:42] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: combat systems would probably create a lot [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: bullet should be able to handle 1000s of physical prims [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: as long as your bandwidth and router can keep up with the massive amount of updates [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hehe [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i wish we had more people interested in working on physics [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we need to lure Teravus back :) [11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: phys is tough [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: yea especially how we do it [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: most physics engines are not meant to be server side [11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, or meant to work with extremely variable ugc [11:46]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'd like to mention a cluster of bugs that makes weapons and combat systems impossible in opensim. [11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:46]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: bbiab [11:46]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: llGetCameraRot does not return the right rotation, so you cannot aim weapons (mantis 7373) [11:47]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bulletsim doesn't work on bullets (6496) [11:47]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So I switched to llCastRay, and it has lots of problems. [11:48]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Mantis 7375 [11:48] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: 7374 [11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Stop shooting kayaker, its already dead :) [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: yea llCastRay is not very reliable yet [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: big prims and mesh [11:49]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: llCastRay reports hits far from objects if they are rotated, it reports hits on physics type none prims. [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ive noticed it fail on hollow things too [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: it detects them as if its solid [11:50]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: llCastRay only tests against AABBs [11:50]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: (Axis Aligned Bounding Boxes) [11:50]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: ?AABBs? [11:51]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: That explains the hits near rotated objects [11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm somewhat surprised that llGetCameraRot fails since the underlying code looks pretty simple [11:52] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: As the camera rotates, the return value from llGetCameraRot does not, [11:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have some experimental things using the camera and it seemed to work last time I looked at it. [11:52] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: it only updates once every 10 degrees or so [11:52]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: camera rot is probably not properly known since the AgentUpdate filtering code went in [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: huh [11:52] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: as if it is returning the rotation of the avatar lower torso [11:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohhh, ok - dynamic [11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so if there's a ini setting to turn off AgentUpdate filtering, I'd try that [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it may be thgat LLClientView.CheckAgentCameraUpdateSignificance is too harsh [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: there's no way to config it atm unfortunately, one would have to change LLClientView.VDELTA and rebuild [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: seems like rotating the cube doesnt seem to have any effect on the raycast here [11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: thats one of the applications that require high rate of agent updates [11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: like the thing Diva found? [11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I mentioned it a few times while people were implemeiting that but not sure if the ini setting I asked for was implemented also [11:55] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In this room, I cannot use llCastRay at all because it reports hits in the middle of the room for parts of the dome. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ah so its when its attached to avatar maybe? [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: the stationary prim raycaster object doesnt seem to fail [11:56] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: llCastRay should probably use the physics raycast but whoever coded it chose to do otherwise for whatever reason [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I think avanation provided that? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i think they use a custom version of ODE [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if they moved to bullet yet [11:58] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: That snowball is placed at a location llCastRay says is OKC Stadium seating [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: thats the floor beneath the chairs [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: hollow cylinders [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: never good [11:58] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I aim high enough and I finally get to hit the dome [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: it always fails on hollow [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: especially large hollow its bad [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it doesn't take in account the prim shape? [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: because the object is usually significantly larger than what it appears if the cut and hollow were gone [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: it would cover over 1/4 of this region [11:59] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In an empty region with a large rectangular bar, I see hits in the AABB [11:59] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: llCastRay knows nothing about geometry, to it everything is a box [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: its like usin POS physics [12:00] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: In SL you can set weather or not llCastRay sees phantom objects, so it has to work without physics sometimes.... [12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the way opensim is coded, llCastRay has no ability to test against geometry, it's not available in that part of the code [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :/ [12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: llCastRay i still dont understand compleet. in sl its not done what i expected with some tests [12:01] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 is back and caught up [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: wb :) [12:02]  Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: wb [12:02]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: wb [12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, it's the top of the hour so I'm going off to fix what look to be prety obvious pgsql [12:04]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :) [12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I need to take off too [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm getting closer to actually installing it but not yet... [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye justin [12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see you all next week - have a good one. [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye blue [12:04] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye all [12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, heading home to [12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks [12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Offline [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: kk thanks everyone, hopefully see you next week if i can [12:04] Seth.Nygard @refugegrid.com:8002: Have a great afternoon/evening everyone, take care