Chat log from the meeting on 2019-02-19

[11:00] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: Im am very happy today 11:01] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: Many many thanks for your tips about my expanding database last week [11:01] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You found your problem, Bernd? [11:02] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: Yes, it was exacty what you expected... more than 9ß % of my database was of map tiles [11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I discovered I have quite a few maptiles in my database that I can remove. [11:03] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: in my database it was about 500 millions [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wow [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: collected over how long time? [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my main grid db was started in Oct, 2014 and had about 45000 maptiles [11:06] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: and it was caused by an configuration mistake... I was confused between minutes and seconds, so a new map tiled was created every 3 minutes instead of 3 hours - in combination with disabling remote deletion... [11:06] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: about 3 years for 9 region i think [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have 47 regions [11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Good that you found the problem, Bernd. [11:07] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: i think your map refresh was not so high [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not at all [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most of the time only on region restart [11:08] Unknown UserUMMAU42: I have my maps so they only region on region startup or manually from the console [11:08] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: me to, I am actually using static images for my regions at the moment. [11:09] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: ah this prevents such problems, of course [11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Regen on startup is best for most regions where they don't change often. [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no landgrab right now, so region restart is more than good [11:10] Unknown UserUMMAU42: even there, you can just do a "generate map" from the console [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and now from the viewer via god tool [11:11] Unknown UserUMMAU42: yes that too [11:12] Unknown UserUMMAU42: <<< --- Is command line / console junky [11:12] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: now I have enabled the remote deletion, and set the map update to once a day - in a month I will re-check it it works like I expect [11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, is that a newly implemented feature? [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the support is new for opensim [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not for the viewer [11:13] Bernd.Steinhardt @mevos.net:8002: oh via good tool? this is new for me - will try it out later [11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Where is the maptile generation under the menus in FS? [11:13] Unknown UserUMMAU42: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=45de5eb638ed2a6e7977a2213f2595215d74e46c [11:13] Ubit Umarov: its naming is a bit confusing, it had other uses at sl [11:13] Unknown UserUMMAU42: like 6 months ago [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: its an obscure button under god tools [11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Pretty obscure. I just looked and didn't see anything that sounded like it would regen the map. [11:14] Unknown UserUMMAU42: the title [11:14] Unknown UserUMMAU42: "regenerate a maptile for a region manually through the use of the God Tools" [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The name of the button in dayturn is "Flush This Region's Map Visibility Caches" [11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Oh, that one. I wondered what that button did. [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I really should rename it [11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes, please do. [11:15] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: thats descriptive [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It was a mystery to me what it did for a very long time [11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Looking at the source code certainly helps to decide what something does. :) [11:16] Ubit Umarov: guess it does something else at sl [11:17] Unknown UserUMMAU42: well ok, only 18 days old effectively for core [11:17] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I suppose in SL they cant really issue commands at the console [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am sure they can [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the region console is their invention [11:18] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I meant users cant not LL [11:18] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: region owners even [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true that [11:18] Ubit Umarov: guess they do it based on region changes... [11:18] Unknown UserUMMAU42: a Lot of people who run regions click start and then promptly forget there is a console [11:19] Ubit Umarov: but well our map things are heavy, specially warp3d [11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Speaking of the viewer, there is a build I just uploaded that has two fixes I need verification they actually work as intended. [11:20] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: is that how it will always be with warp3d? [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the first is a fix for UI scaling that I "think" owkrs OK - it does in a vm on a 5k display, but it needs to be tested on real hardware [11:20] Ubit Umarov: ( but warp3d are so pretty now.. coff coff coff ) [11:21] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the other is an update to update Lightshare settings on region change [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It works as far as I can test, but I don't use Lightshare much [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/dayturn-windows/downloads/Dayturn_1_2_2_43875_i686_Setup.exe [11:21] Ubit Umarov: ( yes warp3d will only be heavier ) [11:21] Unknown UserUMMAU42: I was liking Dayturn till I had to keep switching back to FS to test NotAnimesh [11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Does warp3d still leak memory? [11:22] Unknown UserUMMAU42: no [11:22] Unknown UserUMMAU42: just takes it all at the beginning ....  No but seriously it does not leak, but is heavy when it runs [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: merging animesh is a rather big merge, so I am wrapping up some odds and ends before that [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Also it did not allow me to log on to Aditi for the animesh test regions, but now it does [11:23] Ubit Umarov: well having viewers not crash on close child regions whould be nice [11:23] Ubit Umarov: damm fs [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what do you do to trigger that Ubit? [11:24] Ubit Umarov: im really not in the mood of changing tps all over [11:24] Unknown UserUMMAU42: didn't they roll it out to the grid now in SL [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are in progress [11:25] Ubit Umarov: don't know.. just if there is a animwhat in view BUMMM [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn can log on to SL as it is now, the only thing it does not bake the avatar [11:26] Unknown UserUMMAU42: I have not had that Ubit [11:26] Ubit Umarov: a bit harder to see now, im not closing child regions as fast.. but still happens [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so there you end up as a true grey [11:26] Unknown UserUMMAU42: must be a Bug [11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: location to test Ubit? [11:26] Ubit Umarov: but child reagions i mean child regions that will be out of view on a teleport [11:27] Ubit Umarov: those tradicionaly where closed by sender region [11:27] Unknown UserUMMAU42: there is a var next door to this one [11:27] Ubit Umarov: so only the main sender region did stay active [11:28] Ubit Umarov: i test in a 4 regions in X direction on my test grid [11:28] Ubit Umarov: animwhat on region 1 near 2, tp from 2 to 4 ( so 1 is closed fast ) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: well 3 is a 1km var also :) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: funny it does not happen with crossings [11:29] Ubit Umarov: but those are another viewers code path [11:30] Ubit Umarov: well i hope it's a temporary bug [11:30] Ubit Umarov: bc at least in HG we do need to close regions as before [11:31] Ubit Umarov: ( sl only closes out of view regions ages later.. mb a minute or so ) [11:31] Ubit Umarov: not good on the very small and low prims opensim regions [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just noticed that the FS 6.0.2 does not have a message it is supposed to have for animated objects [11:32] Bill Blight: FS 6.0.2 was officially released [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ObjectAnimation is missing in their code [11:33] Ubit Umarov: 6.0.2 ?? err im still on 6.0.1 [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I was about to say the same [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a flag to be found in /etc/message.xml in the source tree [11:35] Ubit Umarov: it is actually a fake cap [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is still needed for the code to function correct [11:35] Ubit Umarov: at least on 6.0.1 [11:35] Ubit Umarov: yes it is needed [11:35] Ubit Umarov: its how viewer tell regions they do suport it [11:36] Bill Blight: then how come I see them, I'm on 6.0.2 if that actually is a "requirement" [11:36] Ubit Umarov: mb they did removed it from that xml only [11:37] Ubit Umarov: no idea [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the flag exist in the neko source tree that effectively is LL's 64-bit release viewer repository [11:37] Ubit Umarov: oh h6.0.2 is a release? [11:37] Bill Blight: yes [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is [11:37] Bill Blight: 6.0.2 full [11:38] Bill Blight: https://www.firestormviewer.org/firestorm-6-0-2-full-animesh-release/ [11:38] Ubit Umarov: well they may had disabled it for opensim ? :) [11:38] Bill Blight: nope [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: dunno [11:38] Bill Blight: I see them dancing [11:38] Bill Blight: I'm on 6.0.2 [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I see the dancing mesh and I'm on 6.0.1 [11:38] Bill Blight: and actually created those with .6.0.2 [11:38] Ubit Umarov: ok ill try to repo those crashs on it [11:40] Bill Blight: they added a debug option to disable viewer side mesh validation [11:40] Bill Blight: "FSIgnoreClientsideMeshValidation", Treat the errors from Clientside mesh validation as warnings and do not block upload. This setting allows you to fall back on server side checks and per Grid quality control levels. [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Won't that lead to more bad mesh uploads? [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will [11:41] Bill Blight: yep [11:41] Bill Blight: it will [11:41] Bill Blight: but people were crying [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: :P [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: crappy copybotted shit will upload [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Times getting on. JayR, I think you had something you wanted to talk about re: Vivox and Linux? [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... JayR appears to be sleeping at the moment. [11:44] Bill Blight: I find it quite confusing that people scream about "No Quality Items in opensim", then proceed to upload the crappiest mesh they can find [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's see if he wakes up shortly. [11:44] Ubit Umarov: SL-9800 Changed llTextBox to have selectable “message” text ?? [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It means you can copy the message [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and paste it somewhere else [11:45] Ubit Umarov: ahh ok ty´ [11:46] Ubit Umarov flüstert: "Throttled @setgroup because some people can't help themselves and now we can't have nice things " [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I was working on replacing the DotNet mail support with MailKit/MimeKit this past week. I have it hooked in but i always get an authentication error with my internet provider. [11:47] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002 flüstert: I saw that too Ubit made me chuckle [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: It may just be a problem with my provider. I haven't determined the source of the problem. [11:47] Bill Blight: what port are you connecting to your provider on [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: 465 [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: SSL/TLS [11:48] Bill Blight: so it is not actually sending the ssl/tls most likely [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: It gets past the connection stage but not the authentication. [11:48] Ubit Umarov: did't i said that mailkit is not suitable ?? [11:49] Bill Blight: we need a generated cert on our end [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: It is the recommended replacement to .NETs mail features. [11:49] Bill Blight: you have to have a cert on both ends for SSL?TLS [11:49] Ubit Umarov: it will mess up future improvements to SSL on core [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, if you say it isn't suitable, what is. [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I don't recall having a cert in my email program. [11:50] Bill Blight: I'm sure it is there, you may not have had to make it [11:52] Bill Blight: TLS does use key exchange though [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I'm not sure if my email program is connecting using SSL or TLS, or what. I was thinking of using wireshark to see what is going on when using my normail email program and compare it to what is going on with opensim. [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, If you don't know of a suitable replacement for DotNet for email, what is the problem you have with MailKit/MimeKit? [11:54] Ubit Umarov: that does sound a odd question [11:54] Ubit Umarov: if we don't have a replacement, use something we know will give us problems, really ? [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: You said MailKit isn't suitable. It handles authentication methods where DotNet won't handle them. What's wrong with MailKit? [11:55] Ubit Umarov: for some reason ms droped mail, and recomends a employer private project [11:56] Ubit Umarov: i already said the issue [11:56] Ubit Umarov: counting here and #..-core a few times already :p [11:57] Ubit Umarov: possibly also #..-dev, not sure [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, missed the comment. JayR has an issue to discuss. We will have to hold of on why MailKit would mess up SSL support for later. [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: JayR, we have a few minutes left. Go ahead with your question. [11:58] Bill Blight: https://www.emailarchitect.net/easendmail/kb/csharp.aspx?cat=1 [11:58] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Thanks Andrew I was wondering has anyone managed to get voice working with Linux on the client side of things ?...... [11:58] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I did have it working not sure about now with 6.0.2 [11:58] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: currently I have been using Wine Staging to load my clients and that work pretty well [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which client specifically? [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm on Linux with a Linux version of FS and have the white dot over my head. [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Voice is working for me here. [11:59] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Singularity the last Alpha and the Current FS [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The reason why it is working is that FS has used an old SDK for the Linux version [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: an Vivox still accept connections from that old SDK [12:00] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: ahhh [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: eventually it will only accept from the 4.9 SDK [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which does not exist at all for Linux [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: That will be a pain if I won't be able to use voice in-world. [12:01] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: so Linux is a dead issue for using a client nativly in the Linux environment ? [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most likely so [12:01] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: It's working under Wine 4.2 staging so not a big deal I guess [12:02] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: ok thanks :_) [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess that is the workaround [12:02] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: :_) [12:03] Bill Blight: I vote for not breaking anything else in core .... [12:03] Bill Blight: :P [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Did Vivox say anything about why they have dropped support for Linux? [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably very few customers [12:03] Bill Blight: you all should look at Stunnel, works linux and windows and takes 5 minutes to set up [12:03] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: what Gavin said [12:03] Bill Blight: makes mail work [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to guess that there may not be enough people that will be affected by the loss of Linux support by Vivox to encourage more work on the alternatives. [12:06] Ubit Umarov: anyone uses linux viewers ? [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I do. I'm sure I'm not the only one. [12:06] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Well LL dropped support for Linux all together last year so / oh well :_( [12:07] Ubit Umarov: fs kept it running using older lib for linux [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, that had a lot to do with no vivox support [12:07] Bill Blight: but we have no clue what vivox is going to do now that Unity bought them [12:07] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: long time Linux user here / I won't use Windows since win 8 [12:07] Ubit Umarov: mb that will stop working on current vivox servers [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: JayR, I know. That's one of the reasons why I don't tend to use the LL viewer much when I'm in SL. It complains about a few things. I think I even have problems accessing avatar profiles. [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: JayR, I have Windows 10 on a laptop but I don't use the laptop very often, and not for much. [12:08] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I gave up on Windows 10 [12:08] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I'm done with it [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: From the last LL TPV dev meeting it sounded like SL will drop web based profiles and return to a profile integrated in the viewer [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: JayR, are you using a windows version viewer via Wine when you visit SL? [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kokua for SL is still updated for Linux [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't updated my copy of that viewer in a long time. [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe. I still have 4.1.0 from September, 2016 [12:11] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I'm using Xubuntu 18.04.2 nativly and the WineHQ Staging 4.x witih the Windows Program Loader feature / so it install just as it would in an actual WIndows mchine [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://blog.kokuaviewer.org/2019/02/16/kokua-releases-6-0-1-44731-rlv-and-6-0-1-44735-norlv/ [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, thanks. [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll update both fs and kokua after the meeting. [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have fun :-) [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on 6.0.2 I presume [12:13] Ubit Umarov: outch installed 6.0.2 and it killed the 6.0.1, of course lol [12:13] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: thanks Gavin :_) [12:13] Ubit Umarov: forgot it did that :) [12:14] Ubit Umarov: and damm installed it on the wrong disk grrr [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:14] Ubit Umarov: i do not want this on my small ssd [12:14] Ubit Umarov: but well the thing is dancing there [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have that problem with versions colliding. They go in to different directories. [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at quarter past. Any last minute topic or question for today? [12:15] Ubit Umarov: so they did not changed the proto gavin.Hird [12:15] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: nice meeting very informative / Thanks Andrew / and everyone else [12:16] Ubit Umarov: those 2 out there also dancing [12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: JayR, yw. [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from what I could see, scanning the change log, they did not really add anything animesh from 6.0.1 to 6.0.2 [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: except from some code LL has yet to release [12:16] Ubit Umarov: lets hope those crash fixes did fixed the tp issue [12:16] Ubit Umarov: so i can clean tps again [12:17] Bill Blight flüstert: 20:17:05 - [EMAIL]: EMail sent to: bill@opensimfest.org from object: 61551510-c82f-437d-a4c5-d7fce96c0427@opensimfest.com [12:17] Bill Blight: using stunnel to my tls mail server [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is also a chance the opensim implementation of animesh is not working entirely as it should, or? ;-) [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: What authentication methods does it handle besides TLS? [12:18] Bill Blight: ssl [12:18] Bill Blight: [gmail-smtp] client = yes accept = 127.0.0.1:2525 connect = smtp.gmail.com:587 [osf_pop] client = yes accept = 127.0.0.1:110 connect = mail.opensimfest.org:995 [osf_smtp] client = yes accept = 127.0.0.1:225 connect = mail.opensimfest.org:465 [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Just those two? [12:18] Bill Blight: that is the entirety of the config [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok [12:19] Bill Blight: How many auth methods do you want, [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I only need one but other people may need some other options. [12:19] Bill Blight: it does not just proxy mail, it can be used to proxy many other things [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: MailKit has multiple options. [12:20] Bill Blight: like what? [12:20] Bill Blight: the only consumer level ones that are mostly used now are SSL and TLS [12:21] Ubit Umarov: we still don't have setting objects [12:21] Ubit Umarov: grrr [12:21] Ubit Umarov: already mantis asking for them [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: None, SSL, TLS, SASL. [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd have to check the docs again to see if it also has pop before smtp. [12:22] Bill Blight: considering you don't have to use stunnel for NONE opensim handles that [12:23] Bill Blight: SASL is not widely used for consumers [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:23] Bill Blight: and considering you have only ONE mail server you can put in the [SMTP] settings, not like people are going to be using a dozen of them [12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I just checked the EASend site and it says the component is a free trial. [12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: It's half past now. Time to call this meeting to an end for today. See you all again next week.