Chat log from the meeting on 2018-11-27

[10:51] Kayaker Magic: Ohh! Nice wings Bill [10:53] Kayaker Magic: Which animation technique are you using on those wings? [10:55] Kayaker Magic: Looks like a mesh with an armature. [10:55] Bill Blight: They are Bento, made in blender with Avastar [10:56] Kayaker Magic: Ah, so there is an animation file for the wings! Nice. [10:57] Bill Blight: Yes, I rewrote the AO , for some better animations [10:57] Kayaker Magic: do you have a flapping animation for when you are flying? [10:59] Kayaker Magic: YES! [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, in the robust.ini files, I find UserAccountsService sometimes spelled UserAccountService. Which is the right way? And should I submit a mantis about this? [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Good catch, Kayaker. I'm not sure if that is a mistake or not. [11:07] Ubit Umarov: oh? [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been working on updating my machine to bigger hard drives so I haven't had a lot of time for OpenSim related activities. [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I have gone through the list of implemented LSL functions and added some that were missing from the list. [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The next step is to start checking those functions and the other ones not listed as fully implemented to find out what state they are in. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: well don't ask but HG uses UserAccountsService [11:13] Ubit Umarov: throw new Exception("Please specify UserAccountsService in HGInventoryService configuration"); for example [11:13] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Hi Bernd [11:14] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: in any case there will be a chat log posted at the end of the session [11:15] Kayaker Magic: I'm running 0.9.1 Snail Dev and was hoping to see improvements with http, but I just discovered that FireStorm loads all textures and mesh with UDP! Is there anything we can do about that? [11:16] Ubit Umarov: fs does use http [11:16] Ubit Umarov: check the settings [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: file a JIRA [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and check the settings [11:16] Kayaker Magic: There are settings that a user can change on FS? [11:16] Ubit Umarov: some versions of alchemy do not, because of a typo they had [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:17] Ubit Umarov: see developer menu [11:17] Arielle Popstar: Preferences Graphics Rendering [11:17] Ubit Umarov: check http textures [11:17] Ubit Umarov: and inventory [11:17] Ubit Umarov: baked textures do use udp [11:17] Ubit Umarov: it seems [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: speaking of baked textures [11:18] Kayaker Magic: So each user can request http, but UDP is the default. So if a bunch of HG visitors arrive that have NOT selected http, my region bogs down anyway. [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had a visitor using my public sandbox and noticed she was generating a storm of bake requests [11:19] Arielle Popstar: think it is default [11:19] Arielle Popstar: http [11:19] Ubit Umarov: by default fs uses http if i remember [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I went and asked which viewer she used and it was FS [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: she was working on mesh outfits and a mesh body [11:19] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: we have seen that Gavin, traced to an alpha [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: today when I was doing some final testing of the animesh merge [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suddenly detected the same with my avatar [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and what triggered it was an alpha that hid the entire body [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: storm or rebake requests [11:20] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: we replaced the alpha and problem went away [11:20] Arielle Popstar: oh [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as soon as you removed the alpha it went away [11:20] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: bit of a killer [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what did you replace it with? [11:21] Arielle Popstar: wonder if that is why on Lumiya i so often see the black alpha texture on my avi [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just a fresh alpha? [11:21] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: another alpha [11:21] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes [11:21] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: very interesting, we had a similar event at Metropolis ... [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let me try that [11:21] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: First saw with avi from japan grid [11:21] Arielle Popstar: it gets corrupted then? [11:22] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: we did not look further Arielle [11:22] Bill Blight: So most likely something got corrupt when it hit the cache and it just kept trying to render/cache it, something to keep an eye on [11:22] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I am supprise no one else has seen this [11:22] Arielle Popstar: wonder if through hypergrid [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the visitor was coming in via hypergrid [11:22] Bill Blight: I have seen it once in a while, I just chalked it up to a corrupt texture [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: me obviously direct connect [11:23] Arielle Popstar: but possible use the alpha on a previous HG jump? [11:23] Bill Blight: Shite does occasionally happpen [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I usually don't hop around with mesh bodies [11:23] Ubit Umarov: alpha texture with a uuid not known to grid ? [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so no need to hide the full avatar [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no indication of that [11:24] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: no details at hand but we did retain the offending items, possible to do more analysis [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the only thing that happened for the visitor was that she could not load some texture because of a UUID clash [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never seen that before [11:25] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: 1st saw with a HG safari :) [11:25] Arielle Popstar: supposed to be highly unlikely [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Indeed. [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I know when I switch between grids I occasionally have to clear my viewer cache to get things to rez or be textured properly. I don't know what causes that. I wouldn't expect it to be UUID conflicts. [11:27] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: UUID is a non starter IMO [11:27] Ubit Umarov: a typo on mantis about possible typo kayaker [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course the error message did not say which UUID it was [11:28] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so not easy to find [11:28] Ubit Umarov: it was not on region.ini kayaker [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: The error messages are often not that helpful in identifying what texture or object is causing a problem. [11:28] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: WE began to trace using visual studio, then other things happened [11:29] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: if time this week we will look again [11:29] Ubit Umarov: and it is not a typo, code is coerent with the ini file [11:30] Ubit Umarov: ewll can be.. but coerent [11:30] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: @Gavin. When the viewer loses focus, click on another window, the frame rate drops. Is that a viewer function? [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:30] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: kk [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it yields [11:30] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: understandable [11:31] Ubit Umarov: why burn gpu if not looking ? [11:31] Ubit Umarov: a lot more programs should had that [11:31] Bill Blight: foreground vs background process [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or you wan to do something else in the foreground [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it tries to drop it down to about 15 fps [11:31] Ubit Umarov: some keep rendering full speed, minimized [11:32] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: some users report that they have low frame rates. wondered if they had considered frame change [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some users DO have low frame rates [11:33] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: not in our labs gavin [11:33] Bill Blight: Trying to run Ultra on Intel graphics for instance [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [11:33] Ubit Umarov: there is also a option to limit viewer fps [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: newer LL code will not go over 60 fps [11:34] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Not a problem, just heads up to grid operators [11:34] Ubit Umarov: not much point havign 100fps on a 60hz monitor [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or do too much work so the rest of the system cannot update the scene properly [11:35] Bill Blight: People need to learn the difference between something the server can control on FPS and Viewer Side Lag, they are different [11:35] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yeah, like run steam concurrently :) [11:36] Bill Blight: does not matter how good and fast the server is, if you are dumping billions of tris to the viewer the viewer is going to suffer .. [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have finished merging Animesh into the viewer code 2 hours ago, and nothing BAD happens on OpenSim [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: My current frame rate isn't that high. Best frame rate I got was on an older graphics card. [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: using that viewer build now [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Which viewer are you working on? [11:37] Ubit Umarov: if you did it right it is disabled gavin :) [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the mac version of KokuaOS [11:37] Ubit Umarov: region must tell viewer to enable it [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but it is not disabled [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I'll check whether I have source for the Kokua browser checked out. [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it must be tested properly on SL too [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There are two new builds for Windows [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with and without RLV [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they will eventually get the animesh code too [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but Bento first [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Builds are here for testing https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/kokua-opensim/downloads/ [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know much about Mercurial. My copy of the Kokua viewer is from May with no available updates since then. [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you use the wrong repository [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/kokua-opensim/commits/all [11:41] Bill Blight is having Deja vu [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I have code from https://bitbucket.org/dayturn/kokua-opensim [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just do a hg pull -u [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks. That looks better. [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: YW [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I added Islandz Virtual World to the default grid list [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it relplace Inworldz [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewer works there too [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Just a reminder. We are about a week and a half away from this years OSCC. Don't forget to register if you plan on attending the event. [11:44] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: @gavin, noticed here and other places, that several visitors textures do no appear until I point the mouse pointer at them? [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it happens to varying degree [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: also in SL [11:45] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ok, good to know [11:45] Arielle Popstar: see that on system avatars a lot [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it has to do with how the viewer / scene prioritize updates [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: particularly when entering a scene [11:46] Bill Blight: and has as much to do with the patience of the person using the viewer ... hehehe [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are a lot of updates to be applied to the viewer that improves it [11:46] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: well gavin had been grey since he arrived, that endurance? [11:47] Arielle Popstar: actually i have noted  the unrezzed textures will stay that way  for long periods until mouse is pointed to them [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: refresh your scene [11:47] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I normally zoom in on the person and the textures come in (I did that with Gavin earlier) [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I rebaked [11:47] Arielle Popstar: or r-click and do teex refresh [11:47] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: if known ok, can advise users. [11:47] Arielle Popstar: tex^ [11:48] Arielle Popstar: some avatars will stay a cloud until they manually rebake [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: You can also try the pie menu. Right click avatar/object -> more -> more -> more -> Render -> Fully. [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: There is also More -> More -> Tex Refresh. [11:48] Ubit Umarov: some pray sometimes works [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: BTW I removed the Pie menu completely [11:49] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: lol [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: No more right clicking things? [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only right clicking menus [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no pie [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: What replaces the features that were in the pie menus? [11:49] Bill Blight: I like pie [11:49] Kayaker Magic: r-click->tex_refresh is only available on objects, not avatars. [11:49] Arielle Popstar: what ui scaling factor will it handle? [11:49] Ubit Umarov: i prefer pizza [11:50] Kayaker Magic: pizzz pie [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Its a type of pie. [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when all the code updates are in it will handle up to 4 [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: On the other hand, people who like math prefer pi. :) [11:50] Bill Blight: tex refresh is not just on objects [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tex refresh is for the scene [11:51] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I have show textures and texture refresh on the r click menu for avatars using FS [11:51] Bill Blight: right click and avatar More>more>tex refresh [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some have it as refresh scene [11:51] Kayaker Magic: But I only see tex refresh when I r-click on an object, nothing else. [11:51] Kayaker Magic: I am on FS. [11:52] Bill Blight: I am as well and just did your avatar [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin was white for me when he first arrived but at some point his textures did load. [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't have to force them to load/render. [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because I rebaked [11:52] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: I am as well and have a fair few options on right click on avatars [11:52] Arielle Popstar: he rebaked while you were here i think [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does anyone see me as grey still? [11:53] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: no [11:53] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: nope [11:53] Kayaker Magic: Not me [11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: no [11:53] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: lovely sweater [11:53] Arielle Popstar: fine for me [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have one in RL too [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is called a Marius sweater [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I wonder if there would be a market for ugly Christmas sweaters in grids. :) [11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see no one as grey [11:54] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I trust the hair is by design? [11:54] Bill Blight: I didn't even see Gavin as grey when he first got here [11:54] Kayaker Magic: Hair? what hair? [11:54] Arielle Popstar: he was white for me in FS [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my hair is for minimum lag, haha [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see any hair on Gavin except for a bit of facial hair. [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Five minutes before the hour. Any other topic(s) for today before we wrap things up? [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to do some more updates to the OSSL wiki because Ubit has added some new functions.