Chat log from the meeting on 2018-06-19

[11:01] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, if I switch to a new version of Mono, how important is it to re-compile OpenSim with the same Mono? [11:01] Ubit Umarov: in current days it may be usefull [11:02] Kayaker Magic: Not switching to httptest yet, just using 0.9.1 dev. But upgrading from mono 4.2 to 5.12 [11:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it is recommended that you recompile, on major versions but these days they are making changes fast and furious so good to recompile [11:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Well yeah when changing major versions you really should recompile [11:02] Ubit Umarov: you will have issues compiling on mono5 [11:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: for master yes, [11:03] Ubit Umarov: with msbuild at least [11:03] Kayaker Magic: More than the usual 130 warning messages? [11:03] Kayaker Magic hates warning messages. [11:03] Ubit Umarov: because project files did change [11:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: httptests has 3 warnings on mono 5x [11:04] Ubit Umarov: for exemple, and a minor issue, mono5 msbuild creates temporary folders and places temporary .cs files on them [11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, JayR [11:05] Ubit Umarov: runprebuild of master will include those temp source files on the project [11:05] Ubit Umarov: and hell breaks lose :) [11:05] Ubit Umarov: the one of httptests does work [11:06] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: exceptions during shutdown (httptests) have gone away with current mono 5.17 [11:06] Kayaker Magic: Gaaa! I blinked and Mono came out with 5 more releases! [11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, :) [11:07] Ubit Umarov: 5.17 ? whats that nIghtly build ? [11:07] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes ubit [11:07] Ubit Umarov: the preview is 5.14 and stable 5.12 [11:09] Kayaker Magic: So if I get a fresh copy of opensim sources and build it, it will work the first time and fail the second time due to the temp folders? [11:09] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Who is currently working on the code of Mono? [11:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: pretty much yes Kayaker [11:09] Ubit Umarov: yes first compile with kinda work [11:10] Kayaker Magic: kinda? [11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sounds like a reason to stick with xbuild for now. [11:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but I have to ask, why still using master and not httptests? It is kind of a consensus that httptests will replace master when the dev box gets updated so it kind of already is master [11:10] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: sometimes useful to use /t:clean switch if you have problems [11:11] Ubit Umarov: master is for more conservative "production" boxes [11:11] Kayaker Magic: When will httptests be released as the official version? [11:11] Ubit Umarov: well if we can say that on any opensim ;) [11:11] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: must run with the release or debug [11:11] Ubit Umarov: release? mb next year :p [11:12] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'm pretty sure the ONLY reason it is not the master is due to the dev box, not the code [11:12] Ubit Umarov: you meant as clear dev master. i guess [11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes, Bill. I think that was discussed last week. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: yeap.. its our box that i is delaying that [11:13] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: master, httptests, are just names, [11:13] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: xbuild /p:Configuration=Debug /t:clean [11:13] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: master is getting no fixes at this point I do believe [11:13] Ubit Umarov: well i was lazy  i openend httptests to do just some http things [11:13] Ubit Umarov: then kept using it ;) [11:14] Ubit Umarov: could had created a masterII lol [11:16] Kayaker Magic: On another subject, I'm seeing a problem with region border crossings of avatars that have a large suitcase folder. [11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, how large? [11:18] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: just a note, I use an old laptop to run tgrid, bit slow. to run some large scripts like dance machine I have to double script timeouts [11:18] Kayaker Magic: Had one user with everything in the suitcase, and something got stuck in a loop and re-transfered over and over again for hours lagging the system. [11:18] Ubit Umarov: don't remember much dependencies btw crossings and suitcase [11:19] Kayaker Magic: It's not uncommon to see 8-10x per second this: 2018-06-18 00:39:00,927 DEBUG (Threadpool worker) - OpenSim.Services.HypergridService.HGSuitcaseInventoryService [HG SUITCASE INVENTORY SERVICE]: When it happens, robust really slows down and that's when crossings go bad. The transfers seem to be in a neverending loop too, so it is possible to see transfers going on for several hours, the same stuff. [11:19] JayR Cela: sim border crossings will always be an issue / (problem) / get used to it [11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Ubit, didn't we test some fixes for that on httptests? not sure, but I remember talking about that [11:20] Ubit Umarov: dont' remember bill [11:21] Ubit Umarov: well that messages tells nothing [11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I think that was when you were making changes to the inventory fetch [11:22] Ubit Umarov: i actually did not commit all changes i made to that :) [11:22] Ubit Umarov: made also changes to dbs [11:22] Kayaker Magic: Is there some way to mitigate this suitcase transfer? Give it more time so it doesn't make the same requests over and over? [11:22] Kayaker Magic: Some INI setting? [11:22] Ubit Umarov: kinda waiting to forget the code, so i can debug it by reading LOL [11:23] Ubit Umarov: if you understand what i mean :) [11:23] Kayaker Magic: The documentation is the code. [11:23] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: RTFS [11:24] Ubit Umarov: nahh just some bugs are invisible imediatly after creating them [11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Just a suggestion, might check httptests and see if that problem occurs in it [11:25] Ubit Umarov: well ppl used to run last dev code, should be on httptests now :) [11:25] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: That is what I have been trying to say ^^^^ [11:25] Ubit Umarov: master is version 0.9.0.1 [11:26] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: If you want the latests "Master Dev Code", it is actually httptests [11:26] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, what is the layman's version of the https changes in httptests? [11:26] Ubit Umarov: still not usable [11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: HAHA [11:27] Ubit Umarov: specially with money modules and other TLS things [11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: no kidding [11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ssl , still blows up [11:27] Ubit Umarov: well on a region it works... [11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: works, does not equal "Works Happily" [11:27] Ubit Umarov: but will colide with money modules etc uses of ssl/tls [11:28] Ubit Umarov: it does work happly [11:28] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:28] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: just does not play well with others [11:28] Ubit Umarov: i had a region working happy at osgrid [11:28] Ubit Umarov: and doing ssl to viewers etc [11:28] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I know I was on it .. [11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it does work [11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and works well, just when you have to integrate other things into it, it gets unhappy, like as ubit said, money modules or the like [11:29] Ubit Umarov: but as i said the issues wiht money modules ( and some settings of secureUrl) makes it not usable still [11:30] Ubit Umarov: if all ppl has a simple payed/valid cert it may work ok [11:30] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: even Letsencrypt certs work fine now [11:31] Ubit Umarov: yes but not all can get one from them [11:31] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: as far as I know anybody can use Letsencrypt [11:31] Ubit Umarov: the http past of http tests is better keepalive suport and pipeline [11:31] Ubit Umarov: http part.. [11:32] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ^^ [11:34] Kayaker Magic: How soon before httptests will work with a money module so a commercial grid can switch to it? [11:34] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: It works with gloebits [11:34] Ubit Umarov: that depends on the money modules teams [11:34] Ubit Umarov: ( do not use ssl ) [11:34] Ubit Umarov: i mean region ssl [11:35] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: What about Gloebit? [11:35] Ubit Umarov: as i said above [11:35] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: It works with gloebits [11:35] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: ah, good [11:35] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: my whole grid runs a version of httptests and I use gloebits just fine [11:36] Ubit Umarov: i think major changes relative to money modules where made on master so included on httptests [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Is httptests using SSL for all connections? Will it affect the ability to use other addon modules in addition to the money modules? [11:36] Kayaker Magic: but it does not work with DTS or whatever that popular money module is called? [11:36] Ubit Umarov: and globits at least did work on those changes [11:36] Ubit Umarov: i can't answer for external modules [11:36] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if you enable SSL, it uses it on all connections, I do believe, but not by default SSL is not enabled, [11:37] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but I will say that gloebits still worked when I tested SSL on the region [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I think DTS needs some updates in order for it to work with master. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( forget SSL for now.. that will not work, and when made to work will require changes on external modules also ) [11:37] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ^^ that [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder who gets to document it. :) [11:38] Ubit Umarov: you, of course :p [11:38] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: pipe the source code through TeX [11:40] Ubit Umarov: yesterday or day bf i made the estate "Parcel owners can be more restrictive" stick [11:40] Ubit Umarov: but still does nothing [11:41] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I tested making DTS work with master/httptests, was not hard, minor changes, but DTS, to me, if you run it for real money, you better have good insurance, and in some places you even need a banking license [11:41] Ubit Umarov: well on most grids no one should ever set age +18 and payment info [11:41] Ubit Umarov: unless having a grid side setting of respective user flafs on dbs [11:43] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: well DTS is used for sploders and the like with play money.. quite some people like that [11:44] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes [11:44] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: you won't need a banking license if there's no way of trading it for real money [11:44] Ubit Umarov: at a point they where waiting for 0.9 release to also release it [11:44] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: exactly sheera, which was why I tested it, for play money for RPG sims [11:44] Ubit Umarov: but 0.9.0.1 ( master) may have more changes [11:45] Kayaker Magic: 0.9.0? [11:46] Ubit Umarov: but well, as i said, i can't answer for external modules [11:46] Kayaker Magic: Bill, what were the changes to get DTS working on httptest? [11:46] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'd have to go look, but it was not much [11:46] Ubit Umarov: and opensim API for modules is still far from stable, so.. they may get broken [11:46] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I think I had to fix the prebuild.xml for it [11:46] Ubit Umarov: in fact some just mess all around opensim, so will break on any change :) [11:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: would it be possible to forward those to the makers of DTS so they can incorporate them? [11:47] Kayaker Magic notices the build files for some projects is larger than the codebase. [11:47] Ubit Umarov: forward what ? [11:47] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: If I find my notes on my dev system, I'll save them for the next meeting [11:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: the changes to the DTS module [11:48] Ubit Umarov: and how do i know those? lol [11:48] Ubit Umarov: i don't know the module :p [11:48] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: sorry, the question was directed @Bill - my bad [11:48] Ubit Umarov: oops :) [11:49] Ubit Umarov: i do remember a discussion with Goeblits, they where also going deep into opensim land code [11:49] Ubit Umarov: i told them NOT TO [11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: If I can't find my notes, I'll do it again and take notes this time, and save them, if it works fine again, I'll email the changes to the DTS guys [11:50] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I think, quite some users will be happy about that (@Bill) :-) [11:50] Ubit Umarov: but well in some cases they may need.. our money interface is a simple dummy [11:50] Ubit Umarov: but should be avoid, bc increases problems on any core change [11:51] Kayaker Magic: Are there any changes to robust in httptest? [11:51] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Just me, but external modules should not push code changes on a developer, they just need to fix their end. Some people think that the developers are there to SERVE them and then wonder why they get attitude ... LOL [11:51] Ubit Umarov: and me personaly will not take in consideration any code i don't see on core when doing changes [11:52] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: There are a few changes to robust in httptests [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: The DTLNSL module is missing a couple of assembly statements. It also had a couple of patches that needed to be applied to the OS code base. Part of that was adding HTTPS support to a core module. [11:52] Ubit Umarov: ( even that i do miss sometimes ooops ;) ) [11:52] Ubit Umarov: that patch should not be needed on httptests [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: No, its probably an obsolete change by now. [11:53] Ubit Umarov: modules have no business changing libs as they ddi [11:53] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'm remembering taking that patch out for httptests, when I got it running, I need to take better notes [11:53] Kayaker Magic: My assumption is the DTLNSL guys will not respond in a timely matter..... [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Melanie did indicate I could have pushed the changes it wanted to master. I just didn't get around to doing it [11:53] Ubit Umarov: specially a lib that is not even compiled at same time .. needs to be downloaded etc etc [11:54] Ubit Umarov: they where fixing some ssl issues on the httpserver [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at five minutes before the top of the hour. For those of you who need to leave at the near the top of the hour is there any thing you want to discuss? [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I should update my copy of httptests and test it with the addon search, profile, and mutelist modules. [11:57] Ubit Umarov: httptests has a full functional mutes module now [11:57] Ubit Umarov: and thats the standard one now [11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( no longer named ...TsT like on master [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: .Ubit, ok. I'll have to check if the database is compatible. If so it will be easy to switch over. [11:59] Ubit Umarov: no big thing.. mutes aren't that important to preserve [11:59] Ubit Umarov: there where none till recently anyways :) [12:00] Ubit Umarov: ( and viewers do cache them also ) [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Even the search module isn't as big a deal. It gets populated by parsing data provided by the snapshot module. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: well but search does need external to core code.. [12:01] Ubit Umarov: mutes profiles. groups.. ppl should try to use core and report issues [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a basic search module in OS. I haven't looked at it to see what it might be lacking, if anything. [12:02] Ubit Umarov: i mean groups V2 [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I knew that is what you meant. [12:02] Ubit Umarov: yes but the rpc is also on core :) [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: rpc? [12:03] Ubit Umarov: yes the other groups module derived from flotsam [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right. The xmlrpc based one. [12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: which is what I use .. HEHE [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Its what I have been using. [12:04] Ubit Umarov: well osg reported v2 was very slow on notices [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: The addon groups and core groups are mostly compatible DB wise the main difference is in how the information about attachments to group notices is stored. [12:05] Ubit Umarov: even considering notices are not IMs, don't need be "real time" [12:05] Ubit Umarov: V2 is also derived from the rpc one [12:06] Ubit Umarov: but if i remember i did more work on the rpc one than V2 [12:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I should get going as well, lots to do [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I wondered at one point whether the (flotsam) xmlrpc groups worked with PHP 7. [12:08] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: I have a question regarding libmetaverse. As http://lib.openmetaverse.org and http://openmetaverse.com do not exist anymore, who is currently the "owner" of that library? Which version are we using, and where is the master source code repository? [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Good question. [12:09] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: .. and no answers ... that starts to worry me .. lol [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have the answer off-hand. [12:10] Ubit Umarov: https://github.com/openmetaversefoundation/libopenmetaverse [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought Ubit might have the answer. I have an old(?) copy of the source. [12:10] Ubit Umarov: that is the "most official" one [12:10] Ubit Umarov: BUT [12:10] Ubit Umarov: im not using exactly that on opensim [12:11] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Which one are you using, Ubit? [12:11] Ubit Umarov: my own LOL [12:11] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol [12:11] Ubit Umarov: i did commit a few changes to that one [12:11] Ubit Umarov: but its so BORING have to call the ppl managing it  going over the changes .. etc [12:12] Ubit Umarov: so i do it in "packets" :) [12:12] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Who is managing it? [12:12] Ubit Umarov: dahlia. melanie, diva.. [12:12] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Thank you [12:12] Ubit Umarov: but there are other forks now [12:13] Ubit Umarov: almost every fork of opensim uses its own fork of it also [12:13] Ubit Umarov: radagast uses libreopenmetaverse i think [12:13] Ubit Umarov: ( or similar name ) [12:14] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: sigh .. what a mess .. [12:14] Ubit Umarov: well a newer version of radagast [12:14] Ubit Umarov: lkalif was the one keeping it really [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:15] Eldovar.Lamilton @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: thank you [12:15] Ubit Umarov: he left us.. so.. splits