Chat log from the meeting on 2008-02-12

[10:59] Teravus Ousley: Hey there Justin.. black still :P [10:59] You: hello folks [10:59] You: yep, black is BACK! [10:59] Hiro Protagonist: Big nasty T-Storm here, if I fall off the net you'll know why [10:59] Americo Damasceno: How can I change my appearance [11:00] Hiro Protagonist: right click your avie for teh pie menu [11:00] Americo Damasceno: I did it. Nothing appears [11:00] Teravus Ousley looks for Neas.. >.>, <.< [11:01] Charles Krinkeb: Americo. First do a "create" on shape, skin, pants, shirt, etc from inventory and then you can edit appearance. [11:01] You: Neas, neas, where art thou? [11:01] Lawson English: shape has no create button [11:01] Hiro Protagonist: from inv window [11:02] Charles Krinkeb: We focus this one hour meeting on software development. We have another meeting on Saturday, same time, same place where anything goes. In the meantime, Freenode for IRC, channel #opensim, wiki, osgrid.org/forums [11:02] Charles Krinkeb: Inventory->Create->Shape [11:03] You: I believe neas wanted to whale on our bug heap today [11:03] Hiro Protagonist: that'd be sweet [11:03] Teravus Ousley: Neas not going to make it? [11:03] Teravus Ousley: :D [11:03] Charles Krinkeb: 7 avatars, 641Mbyte VIRT, 550Mbyte RES, 22% CPU, 55% memory. [11:03] Teravus Ousley: ahh... there he is [11:04] Charles Krinkeb: Now that all the Mantis issues are taken care of, we can just play, right? [11:04] You: charles, which revision? [11:04] Charles Krinkeb: r3412 [11:04] Teravus Ousley: Yes. super boink! [11:04] You: Is that post MW's fix for my breakage? [11:04] Neas Bade: Afternoon folks [11:04] You: it probably is [11:04]  Hiro Protagonist: Afternoon Neas :) [11:05]  Charles Krinkeb: Afternoon, Neas. We are hoping you will guide us in triage on Mantis to get us going. [11:06]  You: then again, while neas is pondering that, we could talk about something else [11:07]  Hiro Protagonist: gah. stuck in typing anim [11:07]  Hiro Protagonist: there we go :) [11:07] Charles Krinkeb: 8 avatars, 736Mbyte VIRT, 635MBtye RES, 23% CPU, 64% MEM [11:07] You: I think we should do no triage and just regularly 'accidentally' delete mantis :D [11:07] Teravus Ousley: how are the asset/texture stats? [11:08] Hiro Protagonist: lmao@Justin [11:08] Charles Krinkeb: Is it correct to say that memory is our current top issue? [11:08] Neas Bade: running through the bugs in mantis and trying to confirm what are still issues, and reduce the number of things sitting in the 'new' state [11:08] Neas Bade: it would be great to get some more folks helping on that front [11:08] You: probably, my attempt to work on this was too hurried last friday [11:08] Charles Krinkeb: Can we unilaterally close any that are older then 6 weeks, say? [11:08] You: but I'm going to go back and do it properly [11:08] Charles Krinkeb: If they are still issues, they will return soon enough. [11:08] Neas Bade: even if we don't assign bugs to folks, putting them in the confirmed state is good to know they are things to work on [11:09]  You: teravus: were you talking to me re: asset/texture stats? [11:09] You: oh no, generally for this region.... [11:09] Neas Bade: I'd rather not just close old bugs without confirming if they are still issues or not [11:09] Mircea Kitsune: hello [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: Charles: I dont think thats a bad idea, because any that are still valid and older than that will have been impacted in some respect by all the refactoring [11:09] You: hello mircea [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: just MHO :) [11:09]  Charles Krinkeb: How about if Hiro and I go on a program of encouraging #opensim folks to confirm/deny older bugs. [11:10]  Neas Bade: that would be very cool [11:10]  Hiro Protagonist: can do :) [11:10] You: could do - I reckon a good proportion of the older bugs actually will be valid [11:10] You: from the current leaderboard, I don't think we've been doing that much bug fixing [11:10] Mircea Kitsune: hmm.. seen older bugs on mantis. that im not sure if they could still be valid today [11:10] Teravus Ousley: 61 bugs for me? :D [11:10] Charles Krinkeb: Mircea. Can you help with that also. The mission is to encourage others in the IRC channel to confirm or deny that older mantis bugs are real or not. [11:10] Hiro Protagonist: I dont suppose them so much to be invalid as just needing to be rereported under contemporary circumstances [11:10] You: top gun, Teravus ;) [11:11]  Neas Bade: right, part of the issue is to try to clear out our backlog and figure out what are actually issues [11:11]  Mircea Kitsune: yeas, i can test anything if anoyne wants [11:11]  Mircea Kitsune: just tested that old mantis about the lang "crashing when set for sale" todday [11:11]  Neas Bade: I also wrote the osmantis bot to give mantis issues more visibility on IRC [11:11]  You: neas - any chance that bot could report who made the latest change [11:11]  Hiro Protagonist: that thing is awesome Neas [11:11]  You: as well as the originator of the issue? [11:11]  Neas Bade: because I think one of the reasons mantis was overlooked was because no one was noticing changes [11:11]  Neas Bade: justin, yeh, I think so [11:12]  Hiro Protagonist: Heya ChrisD :) [11:12] Neas Bade: it reports originator now [11:12] You: well, I regularly get everything through e-mail [11:12] Charles Krinkeb: Is the mantis bot helpful to everyone? [11:12] You: there are rather a few of them [11:12] Hiro Protagonist: I think the mantis bot is awesome [11:12] Chris D: Hi Hero [11:12] Mircea Kitsune loves the new mantis bot. will help everyone lots [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey is going to be the rotton apple [11:12] You: it spams my eyes :) No really, it's good [11:13]  Charles Krinkeb: 9 avatars, 747MBtye VIRT, 637Mbtye RES, 23% CPU, 64% MEM [11:13]  You: I can't see a way to reduce the amount of text - it has to state the essentials I guess [11:13]  Neas Bade: justin, you can always ignore it :) [11:13] You: oh yeah! [11:13] You: great idea ;) [11:13]  Hiro Protagonist: heehee [11:13]  Hiro Protagonist: an unignore if you're watching somethin [11:13]  Mircea Kitsune: yeah. #opensim-dev is especially for code and system-talk so its good there [11:13]  Mircea Kitsune: yeah [11:14]  Neas Bade: I figured I'd run it a few days and see what the reaction is [11:14]  You: neas - do we need the 'category' line? [11:14]  Teravus Ousley: Next few days I'm going to try to work out the issues with physical prim that are blockers under regular use [11:14]  You: usually category is fairly obvious from the description [11:14]  Teravus Ousley: Next few days I'm going to try to work out the issues with physical prim that are blockers under regular use [11:14]  Neas Bade: it could definitely be made a little smarter [11:14]  Charles Krinkeb: Good point, Question: Are we abusing opensim-dev by too much non-code talk, or is it cool with the developers at this point? [11:14] You: charles: it's cool with me [11:14]  Mircea Kitsune likes the way opensim-dev is like currently. [11:14] Teravus Ousley: obviously there are still potential stack overflow issues.. however those can be solved by linking parameters in Windows and a proper incantation on *nix [11:14] Mircea Kitsune: its very good [11:15] Charles Krinkeb: 10 avatars, 800Mbyte VIRT, 692 MByte RES, 25% CPU, 70% MEM [11:15] Neas Bade: honestly, the thing to do probably is to provide more information on the original submit, and something smaller on updates. But I wrote the whole integration in a couple of hours this week, so it was a first take [11:15] You: well, in the next week I plan to revisit the memory issue [11:15] Mircea Kitsune notices she has 8-9 FPS whule looking at the croud abnd having everyone here in her FOV [11:15] You: neas: yeah, I agree - it's a good start - I'm just being picky [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: Justin: that could DEF use some TLC [11:16] You: do better locking on inventory, and think about going async on inventory transfers on region crossings (per Teravus' request) [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: 52 FPS with full view of the crowd here [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: Heya Neb :D [11:16] Teravus Ousley: hehe, yes. that'll help region crossings a *LOT* [11:16] Mircea Kitsune: Im also using windlight so its less for that reason [11:16] You: Hi Nebadon [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:16] Lawson English: 6 fps right now here [11:16] Mircea Kitsune: hmm.. chat lag [11:16] Charles Krinkeb: Anyone disagree that memory is not our top issue? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey waits for the treadmill to appear [11:16] Mircea Kitsune: hi Nebadon [11:16] Neas Bade: Teravus, I'm running into a funny issue with ODE in ppc [11:17] Hiro Protagonist: Honestly Charles, I'd say that and bugs are running neck and neck [11:17] Lawson English: Dr Scofield submitted a bug report about issues with PPC and libsl/opensim [11:17] Teravus Ousley: I'm not sure how much testing I can do on PPC, as I don't have anything to test on. [11:17] Hiro Protagonist: memory might address a good many bugs too [11:17] You: charles: i suspect scripts may also be taking up a lot of memory [11:17] Lawson English: something to do with packbits call (endian issues) [11:17] Neas Bade: http://pastebin.ca/901543 - just trying to figure out if you've seen something like this before [11:17] Charles Krinkeb: There are 100 scripts running on this region right now. [11:17] You: when i started my appserver each one appeared to eat up 3Mb [11:17] Neas Bade: Lawson, yep those patches are integrated [11:18] You: appserver = opensim [11:18] Teravus Ousley: Yes, Neas, that means that your system might have an ODELibrary in the local library [11:18] You: too much damn J2EE nggggghh [11:18] Neas Bade: ah ok [11:18]  Teravus Ousley: .. that's taking presidence over the one in the OpenSim folder [11:19] Charles Krinkeb: ckrinke hands Teravus a dictionary with a spell checker for "precedence" [11:19] Neas Bade: ok, that might make sense for why it worked at one point [11:19] Teravus Ousley: I thought that it would be a good seqway for talking about politics! :D [11:19] Neas Bade: someone might have installed the distro [11:19] Teravus Ousley: :D segway :D [11:20] Teravus Ousley: j/k [11:20] Neas Bade: someone should build a segway :) [11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey hands Teravus a dictionary with a spell checker for "segue" [11:20]  Charles Krinkeb: The plazas were split into two mono instances last Saturday, by the way. [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i started building one in SL [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:20]  Teravus Ousley: heh [11:20]  Hiro Protagonist: seguey? [11:20]  You: charles: are you seeing memory issues regularly? [11:20]  Charles Krinkeb: Yes, the plazas just barely survive overnight. [11:21]  You: is it worse than it was, or has it always been this way? [11:21]  Charles Krinkeb: Worse since scripts started running. [11:21]  You: Yes, I think scripts are making a big contribution to this, which you might want to tell Tedd about [11:21]  Charles Krinkeb: 11 avatars, 1087Mbyte VIRT, 864MByte RES, 29% CPU, 86% MEM [11:21]  Teravus Ousley: 86 scripts running :D [11:22] Mircea Kitsune: If its on-topic... i noticed for a few days my sim is really slow to logins/region border crossing [11:22] Teravus Ousley: my computer barely made it to 90 before Visual studio threw up :D [11:22] You: ping [11:22] You: but we also don't appear to release memory on client logout, which was what I was looking at [11:22]  Charles Krinkeb: We will probably start swapping before the end of this meeting and start lagging significantly. [11:22] Mircea Kitsune: if you try to cross to it, you float for 30 seconds or more before connecting [11:22] Charles Krinkeb: Yes, memory only increases, it never seems to go down. [11:22] Mircea Kitsune: kept wondering why.. my general connection speed is very good and no firewall on [11:22] Teravus Ousley: Time dilation has already dropped a bit [11:22] You: this feels like the end days all over again [11:23] Teravus Ousley: In a recent commit, I'm actually sending the real time dilation to the client in object updates now [11:23] Hiro Protagonist: MK: there's been some nasty internet routing issues the past couple of weeks wich ChrisD and I were able to pin down as a source of such troubles midweek last week [11:23] Hiro Protagonist: lagging bad [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: viewer crashed again [11:23] Mircea Kitsune: hmm... [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: blah [11:23] Charles Krinkeb: 11 avatars, 1212MByte VIRT, 881MByte RES, 37% CPU, 88% MEM [11:23] Charles Krinkeb: Better the viewer then the sim. [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: haha yea true [11:23] Hiro Protagonist: Go Charles lmao [11:24] Mircea Kitsune: ah yeah about the avatars... i kept wondering, if it normal to have such a CPU usage at just 11 avatars? I mean, on older computers, having.. probably 15 people connect to your sim could cause lots of trouble [11:24] Hiro Protagonist: at present it def could MK [11:24]  Charles Krinkeb: Mircea. We have some problems, but we need to diagnose them completely before we can solve them. [11:25] Mircea Kitsune: yeah i was wondering if with time, it can be reduced [11:25] Charles Krinkeb: The reward for fixing each bug is the next one gets a tiny bit more subtle. [11:25] Teravus Ousley: I suppose the issue in my mind is are we anywhere closer to identifying where the memory leak is? [11:25] You: mircea: I should think so [11:25]  Mircea Kitsune: or if having so many avatars must use lots of cpu and everything [11:25] Hiro Protagonist: that's pretty much what we're discussing now LoL [11:25] Mircea Kitsune: ah thats good then [11:25] You: teravus: not for sure - I'm currently looking to stop us holding on to client/scene presence structures when we log out [11:26] Mircea Kitsune notices all the avatars keep having short bounces together. noticed that on her sim... ode bug she thinks [11:26] You: but some is also down to scripting, though that may well not be leaky, just expensive [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: wtf [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: my viewer keeps crashing here [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: what viewer Neb [11:26] Charles Krinkeb: 12 avatars, 1336MByte VIRT, 843 RES, 34% CPU, 84% MEM [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: what ver I mean [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: 1.18.5(3) [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: hmmmm [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: on winderes? [11:26] Charles Krinkeb: Hmm. I'm using 1.18.5.3 [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:26] You: teravus: meh, need to do tools research to pin it down really [11:27] Hiro Protagonist: I'm running the same one on linux [11:27] Teravus Ousley: heh, at 21 avatar, my packet limiter starts kicking in :D [11:27] You: teravus: what's a good tool for that? [11:27] Neas Bade: the 1.19 windlight viewer works very nicely :) [11:27]  Mircea Kitsune is using 1.19 too.. everythings very good [11:27]  Teravus Ousley: hmm.. [11:27]  Teravus Ousley passes that question off to lbsa, or joha :D [11:27]  Hiro Protagonist: I've had some stability issues with it, not too bad, but in any case cant associate the issues with a particular grid [11:28]  Teravus Ousley: we're at 16 avatars by the simstats count. and that's what the packet limitor uses to know when to start kicking in. [11:28]  Charles Krinkeb: What are the other things that affect the developers that need to be discussed in the next 30 minutes? [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey whistles [11:29]  Charles Krinkeb: Did I scare everyone away? [11:30]  Hiro Protagonist: nah [11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:30]  Neas Bade: yes, you are a big scary monster :) [11:30] You: doesn't the silcence mean 'there are none'? [11:30] Hiro Protagonist: just waiting for the devs to speak up :) [11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: sdague did you get my rss feed link? [11:30]  Neas Bade: I did, I'll hook that up later today [11:30]  Teravus Ousley: whoops, lag begins! [11:30]  Charles Krinkeb: Turning the question around: "What are the things the devs would like to see happening that are not happening?" [11:30]  Mircea Kitsune can feel her fps decreasing [11:30]  Hiro Protagonist: hmmmm, script perf is 1 ps [11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: i feel a crash coming [11:30]  Hiro Protagonist: 1 ips rather [11:31]  Neas Bade: it's sort of like an earth quake coming [11:31]  You: yeah, we're already well into swap [11:31]  Teravus Ousley: well the time dilation sinc should help in this situation [11:31]  Charles Krinkeb: 12 avatars, 1610Mbyte VIRT, 849MByte RES, 34% CPU, 85% MEM [11:31]  Neas Bade: neb: I'll put that into the planet later today [11:31] You: you mean, we won't be aging as fast as people nd [11:31]  You: not in the sim [11:31] Groove Market: melting [11:31] Neas Bade: I wonder where that leak is, as I don't see it on my test environment [11:32] Mircea Kitsune: lets ask everyone else on irc to connect so we can see how many avatars it can handle well [11:32] Stefan Andersson: Well, I think the elephant in the room would be the attachments/scene objects issue [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey had a scary sinking moment [11:32] Charles Krinkeb: incoming avatar [11:32] Neas Bade: which means it must be in the grid handling code [11:32] Teravus Ousley: heh, the client apparently uses time dilation to help drive it's interpolation [11:32] Hiro Protagonist: hey yeah stef [11:32] You: oh no [11:32]  Trevis Ferraris: hi [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: i think we have already exceeded the how many avatars it can handle well threshhold [11:32] Hiro Protagonist: It'd be great if that were even just a little more workable [11:32] Teravus Ousley: nah, .. packets out are 422, [11:32] Chris D: I will bring in another avatar. [11:33] Teravus Ousley: this is memory related most likely [11:33] Charles Krinkeb: 13 avatars, 1661MByte VIRT, 840MByte RES, 24% CPU, 83% MEM [11:33] Charles Krinkeb: 2000MByte total ram in the server. [11:33] You: I see this machine has 1gb physical - we're using 1687mb [11:33] You: oh yeah, my bad [11:33] Neas Bade: the agent updates / sec is really right [11:34] Mircea Kitsune: hmm..chat and movement lag are starting to take place too [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea i though this machine has 1 gig charles [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: did it get upgraded? [11:34] Charles Krinkeb: Bunch of resending going on on the console. [11:34] Teravus Ousley: yes, the agent updates/sec is correct [11:34] Hiro Protagonist: lag is rampant [11:34] Hiro Protagonist: I'm showing 20 peeps [11:34] Charles Krinkeb: Did somebody open the map? [11:34] Neas Bade: sorry, I mean it's really high [11:34] You: yeah, 1 gig physical, 1 gig swap [11:35] Kurt Stringer: hello all, sorry I 'm late [11:35] Teravus Ousley: well, 20 peeps means that my packet limit code is almost kicking in :P [11:35] Neas Bade: hey, if someone is watching top on the system, I'd be curious how much is system time [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yea but if we are using swap at all its over [11:35] Stefan Andersson: where's that number coming from? [11:35] Stefan Andersson: ... 55879 pending downloads..? [11:35] You: we were using swap 10 minutes ago (20 by the time you read this) [11:36] Charles Krinkeb: 17 avatars, 1771 VIRT, 832 RES, 22 %CPU 83% MEM [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:36] Groove Market: earthquake! [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: I show 20 avs still [11:36] Charles Krinkeb: The great part is we actually have 17 avatars in here. [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: TD at .63 [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: FPS 70+ [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunatly wright plaza is built on a Fault Line [11:37] Charles Krinkeb: Thats Ok, Its a good test. [11:37] Teravus Ousley: heh, we need one or two more avatar! :D [11:37] Hiro Protagonist: 121.8 PFPS [11:37] Mircea Kitsune: Hehe.. no physics engine seems to be good with it. ODE and POS cause earthwuakes, and bulletX makes you slide [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey logs in an alt [11:37] Neas Bade: well nifty, I managed to get opensim to start on ppc with ode :) [11:38]  Neas Bade: I think that ODE needs a threshold for movement [11:38]  You: 1828 mb [11:38]  Neas Bade: I think that the jitter is just float rounding errors [11:38]  You: pin [11:38]  Charles Krinkeb: Thats great, neas. Does it run well? [11:38]  Charles Krinkeb: show updates has a lot less activity then with POS [11:39]  Neas Bade: it's an old and slow power box, so it runs slowly [11:39]  You: logins to this region appear to be offline [11:39]  Kurt Stringer: ok, that was interesting [11:39]  Neas Bade: I'm hoping to get access to some meatier hardware this week [11:39]  Hiro Protagonist: time dialation .51 [11:40]  Mircea Kitsune: wow.. well i think OS cannot yet handle more then 15 users at most today [11:40]  Teravus Ousley: going too slow probably :P [11:40]  Hiro Protagonist: requests timing out on teh user server [11:40] tapsi vita: versteht mich einer [11:40] You: well, that might mean we won't go above 1902mb [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: as far as im concerned this is a crashed state [11:40] Neas Bade: it's like bullet time [11:41] Neas Bade: Micrea, opensim in standalone mode does a bit better under the load [11:41] Charles Krinkeb: Ah, you are watching the top, Justin? [11:41] Neas Bade: I regularly have 15 on it [11:41]  You: yes, I am perched there [11:41] Teravus Ousley: bullet time? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: how much ram do you have Neas [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: rofl this is comical [11:42] Hiro Protagonist: this is great [11:43] Chris D: Tapsi vita:ich spreche kein Deutsch [11:43] Mircea Kitsune currently has her SL client's stats reporting 7.x fps and, at a period of time around 34 kbps, but at others arouaround 200-300 though rarely [11:43] You: we froze up completely last week There followed a five minute pause for tea and light refreshments (actually, the region used up all the memory in the machine and had to be restarted). [11:48] Teravus Ousley: hello again! [11:48] Charles Krinkeb: Did we learn anything from that? [11:48] You: greetings [11:48] Teravus Ousley: maybe I need to implement my packet limiting code a little faster! [11:48] Teravus Ousley: :D [11:48] You: we have a memory leak or three? [11:49] Charles Krinkeb: Although we have nearly 100 scripts, it is not an unreasonable amount to expect in a region for OpenSim. [11:49] You: probably has been there along, though excarabated by scripts [11:49] You: 100 scripts = 300mb I think ( completely unscientific observation) [11:50] Teravus Ousley: well, you could disable the scritps and find out. Want to try that? [11:51] Charles Krinkeb: How does one do that? [11:51] You: that may well be worth a try before the next big mneeting [11:51] Teravus Ousley: Estate tools, Debug tab, Check 'Disable Scripts', click apply [11:51] Teravus Ousley: to turn them back on again, go to the same tab, uncheck it, and click apply [11:52] Charles Krinkeb: Done [11:52] You: okay, so memory usage is dropping [11:52] Charles Krinkeb: Oh, wow, the console shows it is unloading a bunch of scripts. [11:52] You: down to 293mb now [11:52] You: each login appears to cost about 16mb [11:53] Charles Krinkeb: Turn scripts on and see what it goes back up to? [11:53] You: but subsequent activity could push that up [11:53]  You: could do [11:53]  You: yeah, good idea, try that [11:53] Primitive: reset. [11:53] Charles Krinkeb: Scripts enabled button pressed. [11:53] Primitive: reset. [11:53] You: going up [11:53]  Primitive: restarted [11:53] Teravus Ousley: the scripts are coming back online [11:54] Charles Krinkeb: Yeah, 3MByte per script [11:54] Mircea Kitsune: so the client "disable scripts" works too for OS? [11:54] Mircea Kitsune: for a parcel? [11:54] Teravus Ousley: yes [11:54] Mircea Kitsune: sweet [11:54] Teravus Ousley: .. on the estate [11:54] Charles Krinkeb: Looks like it works fine. [11:54] Teravus Ousley: not for the parcel yet [11:54] Mircea Kitsune: nice [11:54] Primitive: reset. [11:54] You: but scripts at least appear not to leak - since they released all their memory on the shutdown [11:54] You: I mean, the disable [11:55] Teravus Ousley: but keep the scripts running [11:55] Charles Krinkeb: So, one thing I can do is disable scripts when I go to bed and the region should survive the night better. [11:55] Teravus Ousley: we're looking at ways to stop piping events to scripts in parcels with scripts disabled [11:55] You: well, they don't leak on shutdown - doesnt' necessarily mean they don't leak in operation (though it feels unlikely) [11:55] You: okay, we seemed to have stopped rising at 413mb [11:55] You: so actually, that seems a good bit lower, about 120mb usage [11:56] Charles Krinkeb: Does the "disable physics" button do anything? [11:56] Teravus Ousley: heh, when nobody talks I get worried so I start to move :D [11:56] You: charles - I presume you dont' reset this region before the meeting beings? [11:56] Teravus Ousley: yes, it disables physics [11:56] You: begins? [11:57] Charles Krinkeb: I try to restart this region just before the meetings. [11:57] You: oh okay, that's interesting [11:57] Charles Krinkeb: Dont do it 100%, but I try. [11:57] You: usage is worse than I thought then, if we're climibing 1600mb or so on only 20 avatars [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats not good [11:58] Charles Krinkeb: How can we make Sakai a billionaire with memory leaks like this? [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:58] You: heh heh heh [11:58] Mircea Kitsune: hey, i was curious in this case; is there any way we can create a avatar limit for a sim? So someone in opensim.ini can set a maximum number of avatars/ [11:58] Mircea Kitsune: and when its reached, others cnanot cross borders any mor [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: eventually yes [11:58] Mircea Kitsune: *more [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its actually part of the estate tools [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: Agent Limit [11:59] Charles Krinkeb: Agent Limit sets the max number of avatars. It may not be implemented yet. [11:59] Teravus Ousley: alas, it isn't yet [11:59] Mircea Kitsune: It would be great if ti would [12:00] Mircea Kitsune: wait, is there a maximum avatar option in region settings for the client too? [12:00] Charles Krinkeb: I would rather us concentrate on decreasing memory footprints for logins and scripts then making the limit field work. [12:00] Teravus Ousley: yep, and I'd rather work on making physical prim ready for prime time :D [12:00] You: Wwe must be badly leaky somewhere other than logins, since my observation is that a login costs 16mb [12:00] You: not enough to explain the problem [12:01] You: I intend to look at this problem, though my time is pretty limited this week [12:01] You: if you can get someone else interested that would be cool [12:01] Charles Krinkeb: In C#, what sort of programming constructs *could* explain the observation. Admiteddly, I am asking for a guess. [12:01] You: I don't think there are any specific constructs [12:01] You: it's probably references being held on to after they've finished their useful lives [12:02] Charles Krinkeb: Is there a way to force garbage collection on a regular basis? [12:02] You: unless we're leaking out of unmanaged code - but that feels unlikely [12:02] Charles Krinkeb: It could be leaking in libsecondlife. [12:02] You: Charles: it can probably be forced from an attached debugger, but that won't help [12:02] Mircea Kitsune: Ah also, something i have sen and wanted to suggest.. about another problem; [12:03] Mircea Kitsune: What is this ruth avatar symbol? That avatars are fatter when they login and have pigtails, etc? What does it really mean? [12:03] Chris D: Do we know if the same problem exists with a region running under Winows? [12:03] Mircea Kitsune: Anyway, i noticed oit ruins peoples customised appearance. and i wanted to suggest we remove the "ruth avatar" system. so everyone has the appearance they put on [12:03] Teravus Ousley: if we all make it to Saturday, we can test on Ideal. [12:04] Teravus Ousley: .. Saturday, the test hour. [12:04] Teravus Ousley: Ideal is windows [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: be interesting to see how W2K8ODE takes a beating too [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its a 2xP3-1000mhz with 1g ram [12:04] Charles Krinkeb: Should we plan on Saturday to be Ideal or W2K8ODE? [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: or both [12:05] Teravus Ousley: Well, we can toss physical objects back and forth between Ideal, Underverse and W2K8ODE? [12:05] You: hmm, I wonder if the memory problem is somehow exacarabatd by lots of people logging in at once [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: yea sounds good [12:05] You: we seem to be quite happy on 422mb with 7 avatars [12:05] Charles Krinkeb: I would not be surprised, Justin [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: Windows > Linux > Windows [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its a Linux Sammy [12:05] You: so extrapolating to 20 should only put us at the 650mb mark [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: on Win Bread [12:06] Teravus Ousley: I think I'm also going to refine my packet limiter a bit. [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: 20 at 650 still sounds really high [12:07] You: yeah, I think it is high still [12:07] Charles Krinkeb: The other question might be if there is a memory leak when multiple avatars open inventory and edit appearance simultaneously. [12:07] Mircea Kitsune: shoud we try and do that? [12:07] You: yeah, that's a good question [12:07] Teravus Ousley: On the LLGrid, 15 avatar produces on average 440 pps out [12:07] Neas Bade: what the deal with the orb that keeps popping in and out of existence? [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:07] Charles Krinkeb: To the South? [12:07] Neas Bade: yeh, I think so [12:08]  Neas Bade: so hard to tell direction with windlight as the sun is always in the same place [12:08] Charles Krinkeb: Thats Mircea's. On the next sim. [12:08] Neas Bade: ah, ok [12:08]  Charles Krinkeb: I use the minimap to tell direction. [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: its a Kan-Ed script [12:08] Neas Bade: wow, that's huge then [12:08] Neas Bade: and would explain why I couldn't inspect [12:08] Charles Krinkeb: Its about 180 meters away. [12:09] Mircea Kitsune: hehe nice, Nebadon :) [12:09]  Neas Bade: it would be nice to see if osgrid members would contribute some of the textures to opensim [12:09]  Charles Krinkeb: Between Teravus running circles around me and making me dizzy and Nebadon driving me nuts, I am "standing here beside myself". [12:09]  Neas Bade: I know micrea put some in which I'll get in at some point [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:10]  Mircea Kitsune: Library textures? Yeah, i put 3 on mantis im suggested for adding [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: say hello to yourself for me :P [12:10]  Neas Bade: I'm so slow on such things [12:10]  Mircea Kitsune: *suggesting [12:10]  Teravus Ousley: now I'm beside yourself [12:10]  Neas Bade: yep, I took those bugs :) [12:10] Charles Krinkeb: Neas, have you seen the "Hall of Scripts", realtime weathermap and the QuickTime video booths to the south? [12:11] Neas Bade: yes [12:11] Neas Bade: the quicktime doesn't like Linux, but the rest of the scripts are quite nice [12:11] Neas Bade: I need to get the weather map into my test environment [12:11] Charles Krinkeb: I go and look at those along with the beautiful fountain and remember "Mortville". [12:11] Neas Bade: the fountain here is really awesome [12:11] Mircea Kitsune: anyway, i myself must leave now. See you around :) [12:12] Teravus Ousley: take care :D [12:12]  Mircea Kitsune: later [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: yea that plaza builder guy is good :P [12:12]  You: yep. I think I'm going to go and get something to eat too [12:12]  Charles Krinkeb: When I get a little down, I come and stand by the fountain and remember our first sims last May or June.