Chat log from the meeting on 2018-10-30

This weeks meeting was held at devoutreach.org:9000:Dev Outreach because osgrid was down for maintenance.

[10:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Ubit [10:57] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: hi [10:57] Bill Blight: Howdy Mr. BoxHand [10:58] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: grr don't understand that AI issue [10:58] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: just can't repo it [10:58] Bill Blight: It fully sounds like networking to me [10:58] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [10:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I was going to comment on the box. [10:58] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: ohh the test box :) [10:58] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Hello every one :) [10:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Leighton [10:59] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: this is my avatar on my test grid [10:59] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: hi [10:59] Bill Blight: Howdy Leighton [10:59] Bill Blight: Howdy Gavin [10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Evening everyone! [10:59] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: hi Gavin [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Gavin. [11:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302 touches everyone to make them texturize [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: We went back to wintertime on Sunday and I can never remember which way that shifts it in relation to the US, but I seem to be right [11:01] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: yeah we changed 2 last sunday [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: You just have to pop in and check the grid time and compare it to your new local time to see how it affected things. [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: now EU is considering stop using time change [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: will go on vote soon [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Interesting. The clocks haven't changed where I am yet. [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: my gov is against [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Most people here want to be on winter time all year, but the EU wants sumemrtime all year [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: err no [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: each country will decide later [11:03] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: if stay for even in summer or winter [11:03] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: for ever.. [11:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: will be even bigger mess [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: well, its nicer to have light later in the day during the summer but the question is how it affects when the sun sets during the winter. [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: being on summertime in the winter makes the mornings very dark here [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: The winter days are short enough. [11:03] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: typical EU [11:04] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: if they stop changing they all should be on same wither winter or summer.. but no... each will choose [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in the middle of summer the sun is only dwon 3 hours anyway [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: down* [11:04] Bill Blight: I did pop over to Metro and message Sheera, but looks like she may not make it. [11:04] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well thing is how we did decided work hours etc [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, you must be pretty far north. [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am on 59 deg north [11:05] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: the work hours are not simetric to midday [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is southwest Norway [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ah, ok. I'm nearer the 49th parallel. [11:06] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: here we are on utc again [11:07] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well on on of the utc versions [11:08] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well the hour change is always a pain [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and a source of cunfusion [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: confusion* [11:09] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: yeap [11:10] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: and some claim not good for health [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some claim the cows get upset [11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: This could be a short meeting today with some of the regulars not being here. [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What happened over at OSG? [11:14] Bill Blight: yeah osgrid being down and the time change have sent some into a tailspin [11:14] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: or a long one to compensate the time change confusiong :) [11:14] Bill Blight: that too [11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: They had two hard drive failures. [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: again? [11:14] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: what is the utc time now ? [11:14] Bill Blight: raid rebuilds take a while [11:15] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: it is 18:15 UTC [11:15] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: meeting is suposed to be at 19:00 UTC [11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Two hdd's need to be replaced. one first has to rebuild, then a second. Only one server has problems, but in order to resync the database, the grid must be offline. This will take time, estimated 3-4 days (Dan Banner via IRC) [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are they running RAID 5? [11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have no idea but it sounds like they are using something more than just RAID 1. [11:17] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is it unusual for 2 drives to go like that? [11:18] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and can that have happened as a result of a bad script? [11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I don't know the full details. You would have to ask Dan. The two drives may have been in different arrays. [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am running my db on RAID 1 + 0 with 3 drives in each mirror set [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to be pretty unlucky of you have one drive fail on each set at the same time [11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: My machine is on RAID 1 with an external backup. [11:19] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well disks do die [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they do [11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but preety unudsual at thesame time? [11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: yup. I had one die on my machine but I didn't lose any data due to the mirror. [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 3 weeks ago I woke up to a high pitch sound of a drive that had crashed [11:20] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: if you set raid for performance... it dies when one does [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thankfully that machine was mirrored so it was only a matter of replacing the drive [11:21] Bill Blight: I use lsyncd and just keep a real time sync to a backup server [11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: lsyncd? [11:21] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: about this meeting hours [11:21] Bill Blight: lsyncd is pretty much a daemon version of rsync that monitors file changes and syncs them [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: you do notice we say 19:00 UTC and it is still 18:21 utc ? [11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bill, ah, ok. Nice. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit people are not on UTC but on timezones [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: no [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the meeting used to be at 20.00 CET and not it is on 19.00CET [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: all ppl is on UTC [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: thats why there is utc [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: What does the page say apart from the UTC time? [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so for almost all of Europe it moved back one hour [11:23] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: U means universal [11:23] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: that all ppl should need to know UTC and local time [11:23] Bill Blight: People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff. [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: hehe [11:24] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well clock time is like that bc we do depend on sun [11:24] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: our bio is sync to it [11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Does anyone know if some of the other regular attendees of this meeting are in the EU? [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that people don't meet could also be they are not on the mailing list so therefor did not pick up the changed location? [11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: That's also likely, Gavin. [11:24] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: when does us change time ? [11:25] Bill Blight: this sunday [11:25] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: so more confusion again [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: If we had thought about it earlier Dan could have put up a notice on the osgrid login screen to give the location for todays meeting. [11:25] Bill Blight: I tweeted to osgrid, but who knows [11:26] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well most the regulares are here already :) [11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002 nods [11:26] Bill Blight: I bet sheera will be here in 30 [11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Has anyone seen Misterblue recently? [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: When the US change there is less confusion as the difference between the EU and US are back to normal [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: speaking of meeting time....I was asking Dan banner last week why he never attended these meetings as his input would be valuable  being the admin of the Opensim test Grid. His response was that he is at work. This wasnt the case  back in Nebadon's era  so maybe  the  Yuesday afternooon meeting  could be moved to a better day and time for Dan to also be able to attend? [11:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Maybe a weekend  would be better [11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm not so sure about that. For some yes, but not so much for me. [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well this day is legacy [11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I like to be able to take the weekends off to work on my own projects. [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: there used to be 2 meetings it seems [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: per week [11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well thing is this is to talk about code changes but the people most  knowledgable  about the effects  cant be here [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus I think OSG already has a Saturday meeting at a time idal for as many timezones as possible [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well 11 PDT is correct.. pdt will soon change to PST [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: grrrr [11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats a town hall meeting for  the community [11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: not so much about code [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: WHY DO WE USE THAT??? [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: :) [11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: who cares [11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: its just time [11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'd like to get some information about physics engine differences so it can be put on the website. We don't have a page that I know about which tells you how mesh objects will behave across the different physics engine if the uploaded object was uploaded without a physics model. [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you know why Ubit ;-) [11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: depends who youi ask [11:31] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well i always considered the use of pdt a provician choice [11:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: can we stick to dev subjects  Ubit? [11:31] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: any world wide thing must use UTC [11:31] Bill Blight: Just because it uses what SL uses, if every grid ran on it's own time it would be very confusing , but I'd be ok with UTC , but "viewers" [11:32] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: who are you do decide what is a Dev issue arielle.Popstar LOL [11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Andrew chairs the meeting [11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: he put a question out [11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: want to talk about the code chasnge that strips clothing off  on a double click? [11:33] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: well that question has answers on several places, including our web sitge [11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: who thought that one up?\ [11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ubit, Good to know. Is it easy to find that information? Links to those pages should be added to the bottom of the page about the proper way to upload mesh objects. [11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: In the last few days I've been dealing with some people having problem with mesh objects. Mainly due to how the objects had been uploaded. I think they uploaded a number of mesh objects without physics which became a problem for them when they started using BulletSim after they had been using *gasp*ODE*gasp* physics. [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know the different engines handle things differently when a model had no physics model assigned when the model was uploaded. [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: It would also be nice to see a summary of differences in the physics engines when it comes to support for vehicle related function calls. [11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I've had trouble with a balloon script that uses bouyancy and I've heard of someone who changed a script to use llSetRot because the torque functions weren't implemented. [11:38] Bill Blight: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/How_To_Upload_Mesh [11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: site cant be reached [11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh finally [11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bill, right. That is the page that should include, or point to, information about how different engines will handle the situation of no physics model being uploaded at the same time as the object. [11:42] Bill Blight: If you must have a physics model, try uploading it on another region running BulletSim, ODE, an older version of OpenSim or some combination. Carry the mesh home in your suitcase if necessary. [11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: The page has a comment about an object with no physics and what happens if you want to use it with ubODE but there is nothing about how BulletSim would handle the same item. [11:43] Bill Blight: Bullet sim fakes the physics mesh from the visual mesh which usually makes it much heavier [11:44] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but more user friendly for objects without a physics map [11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002 nods [11:44] Bill Blight: easy does not mean better [11:44] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no but in opensim  cpu and ram is cheap [11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Right. I've uploaded a couple of mesh objects lately and I went to the effort of using simple prims to build up a model for the object physics. [11:45] Bill Blight: and evidently IQ is not a prerequisite [11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: quite right [11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: we cant all be geniuses [11:45] Bill Blight: obviously [11:46] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: up to programmers and coders to make our lives easier [11:46] Bill Blight: you really think that is their job? [11:46] Bill Blight: I stand on my previous comment [11:47] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: :) [11:47] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: want to go back to the days of pen and paper? [11:47] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: It would be nice if all programmers and coders aimed to make our lives easier but it doesn't always work out that way. [11:47] Bill Blight: no because I am willing to learn new things [11:48] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you have talentds i dont Bill [11:48] Bill Blight: The ability to learn is only limited by ones willingness to do so [11:49] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thank you for the comments about mesh behaviour when there is a lack of physics model. I'll update the wiki page and have Ubit and/or misterblue check the updates to make sure I got it written down correctly. [11:49] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: we all have different talents [11:49] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Any other OpenSim topic for today? [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There was some discussion about the viewer on G+ and another blog. [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did anyone see it? [11:49] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no [11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: link Gavin? [11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I don't think I've seen it. I almost never look at G+. [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let me find a link - hang on [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://plus.google.com/+JayRCela/posts/c1UNGPZ9K1M [11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I did see one viewer related bit of news this past week. I'll wait until Gavin is finished. [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: see if this works [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: missed that thread [11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I had not seen that. Interesting. [11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002 waves to JayR  :) [11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i was at a recent  FS  class  and at the end of it asked the  FS dev how much difference there was  between the s/l and Opensim vesrions. Her response was  about  7-8 lines of code [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: untrue [11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yeah i couldnt see that [11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: the  havok alone  would be more then that [11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but i reasked her  and  she doubled down  that thats what it was [11:57] Bill Blight: there are hundreds of #if opensim statements in that code if not thousands [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly [11:57] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: If it was so few lines difference FS wouldn't have made some comments about how much they will be supporting OpenSim in their viewer. [11:58] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I was under the impression that they were mostly supporting use of FS with SL. [11:58] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: if not FS  then sounds like  Sing is the only  option [11:58] Bill Blight: the biggest and most annoying one is their force disable of the http pipeline for opensim [11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no progress on a windows Kokuah  Gavin? [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bill is going to give it a go [11:59] Bill Blight: I have a feeling that it is not telling the server that it is disable either and the server keeps trying to use the pipeline [12:00] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: use of pipeline is transparent [12:00] Bill Blight: yes I know, but on my version when I turn it off the http timeouts almost go away, on the stock version I still see them hit the viewer [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the pipeline is just a change of default user settings [12:00] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: http pipeline is just keep sending http requests on same connection without waiting for the answer to previus ones [12:01] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: ( and keeping order ) [12:01] Bill Blight: yes but in FS it is force disabled, the check boxes do nothing [12:01] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I wish Siana the best and hope she gets a decent response from people wanting to support her continued work on Singularity. It has (or had) been my main viewer for many years. [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a line of code that needs to be changed in FS too perhaps [12:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Not sure why I've been using FS a bit more often lately. [12:02] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it has some issues  lately on newer  code [12:02] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it needs fixes [12:02] Bill Blight:  FIRE-17287: Force HttpPipelining off on OpenSim [12:03] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: FS was asked to change the default of http pipeline to OFF on opensim, they just killed it all [12:03] Bill Blight: yep [12:03] Bill Blight: it is not just a default off, it is a force disable [12:04] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: i know [12:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: It is one thing to default it to off. Having it off in the code with no way to turn it on seems a little harsh. [12:06] Bill Blight: yep [12:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Are the first two statements in FIRE-17287 valid? [12:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: The report was from 2015. A lot has happened since then with the OpenSim code. [12:07] Bill Blight: yes [12:07] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: yes it was valid till 0.9,1 [12:07] Bill Blight: very valid [12:07] Bill Blight: LOL [12:07] Bill Blight: but now it robs speed [12:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: If that is the case the report needs to be re-opened to make a request to re-enable the feature, or a new report opened to make the request for use with OS 0.9 [12:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: While we are on the subject of viewers I recently read a comment from Christopher Colosi (the person behind Gloebit) that there is viewer code patch available to support use of multiple currencies within a grid. [12:10] Bill Blight: it is in FS [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have not taken it [12:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: The viewer patch will update the currency symbols when you TP between regions using different currency modules. [12:10] Bill Blight: yes that is in the current FS [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because the code on region crossings are a bit of a mess in Kokua [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so no need to add to it [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right now [12:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes, the patch has been made for FS. Colosi is hoping it might get picked up by other viewers. [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are other things that needs to be fixed first [12:12] Ubit.Umarov @ajld.dynip.sapo.pt:9004: crossings code is a mess everywhere :) [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yup [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no need to add to the confusion with being busy updating a currency symbol [12:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm sure there are other higher priority items but at least there is a patch available for this one for those who want to pick it up. [12:13] Bill Blight: if the symbol of the currency confuses you, you have bigger issues than that .. :P [12:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: :) [12:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know of at least one grid that supports more than one currency. [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: confusion in the code [12:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: The impportant part is that I have 0 of whatever currency [12:14] Bill Blight: Well yeah, but the symbol is just a symbol, could be anything [12:14] Bill Blight: the number is what matters [12:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Arielle, :) [12:15] Bill Blight: I could call my money "Bite Me Coins" and as long as the amount you have is right that is what people should be concerned with [12:16] Bill Blight: not saying that it is not cool, just bigger fish [12:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: True but some people might worry why the number drops when they change region if they don't realize the new region uses a different currency. [12:16] Bill Blight: I'd say that is a region owners responsibility to tell them [12:17] Bill Blight: and it is not a "simple" patch either [12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Well, he also use it as a means of forcing grid owners to accept his currency when that might not be in the interest of the grid at all [12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are also privacy and tax issues with that currency seen from a non US standpoint [12:18] Bill Blight: https://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/2d772021b41c [12:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: It doesn't look as we are going to have anyone else show up for todays meeting even with the time change as we are now past the hour mark. [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good - I am busy upgrading Xcode :-)) [12:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Any other topics for today? If not, we can call this one done and dusted. [12:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see no signs of anyone in the middle of typing something so that will do it for this week. [12:21] Admin/Spell Hud: Bill Blight is casting FIREBALL [12:21] Admin/Spell Hud whispers: Anál nathrach, orth’ [12:21] Admin/Spell Hud whispers: bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha [12:21] Admin/Spell Hud whispers: Fireball target is, [12:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thank you, Bill for providing this emergency meeting location. [12:21] Bill Blight: hehe [12:21] FIREBALL1 whispers: My Target is out of range, (536.771124m) dispelling Fireball [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Thanks Bill and cheers everyone [12:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: If all goes well with osgrid we will meet back at our usual place next week. [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: let's hope so [12:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: oh, and Happy Halloween to those of you who celebrate Halloween. [12:22] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: Bye for now everyone see you next week. :) [12:22] Bill Blight: I'll keep this around just in case [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye [12:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thank you all for coming. See you next week.