Chat log from the meeting on 2014-08-19

[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hey guys [10:57] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello [10:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hey Justin [10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I must admit, this has a different feel to sitting in a circle [10:58] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I sent an email to the lists with the HG address [10:58] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and hit all the IRC channels [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks. I tweeted it as well [10:58] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: cool [10:58] Mata Hari waves [10:58] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: hi mata [10:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Mata [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey wonders if he should try to code a 'steady state' feature into pCampbot or actually pay attention [10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: your early here justin [10:59] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: meh, think I'll pay attn, that feature actually requires me to think a little bit which I'm awful at when distracted [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: steady state? [11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb. its not only wright palza thats down right ? [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi RiRa [11:00] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya the whole grid is down there [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I want to write some code so that I can instruct pCampbot to automatically delog avatars if sim hits, say 95 occupancy [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ahhh, ok [11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: and automatically relog if it goes bleow, to try and keep a steady state [11:00] Mata Hari: I thought steady state had been disproved years ago and it was all a question about the precise acceleration rate or the universe's post-big bang expansion... [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: nice [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: so that real ppl can always get in, rather than trying to do that by hand [11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: intressting [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: heh, yes [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I like the idea though [11:02] Mata Hari: so did Einstein so you've got company :p [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: so this week I took my fired my first subtantial bullet at improving perf [11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is my hair showing bte and shirt ? [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: so I'm hoping that will work at high numbers today [11:04] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i dont see your shirt Richardus [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nebadon, did you put a note on the login page of osgrid. so people know where to go ? [11:04] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no i didnt [11:04] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: probably should have [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ok. let em try replace outfit. its mesh [11:04] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i can tweet it [11:05]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok done [11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if it dont show now then i dont know any fix [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ok, I just flipped a bit to run slightly different clientstack code on keynotes, let me know if you see anything unusual [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I might just flip it here as well... [11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok [11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hope i dont look worse now [11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no restart? [11:06] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i was logging in bots already [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: no, I coded it so that it can be flipped at runtime [11:07] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: nice [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, for ppl here, any opensim topics anybody wants to talk about today? [11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: has anyone tried the new Bulletsim branch yet? [11:09] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I havent had time [11:09] Mata Hari: not yet [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: regarding the inventory issue, do you know for sure that the sim itself is looping through the same items, or could those requsts be coming from the viewer? [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm still looking into that Justin [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey whispers: bluewall [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't yet discounted the possibilty that those inventory items are actually missing, or similar [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: My avatar gets some dupliccates [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: though if that were the case I might expect it to be happening to many ppl [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: is this an OSGrid only issue? [11:12] Mata Hari: I don't know that I can say 100% that it's the region doing it rather than the viewer re-requesting it [11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: I've only heard about it on osgrid so far? [11:12] Mata Hari: Bluewall might know since I think he took more detailed log than I did [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: No, I am using my OSG avatar and region ... [11:13] Mata Hari: no, was referring to where the requests were originating [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I do have some duplicate requests, but my inventory is only slightly over 2K items [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: do you ithink it might be the client timing out on the request an dresnding it? [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: so, I am doing various things to investigate [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I did briefly look at the viewer code in this area but it's not easy to read [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: When I was testing Mata, the request count would climb as long as her avatar was in the sim [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: though if it were simple timeout I would expec tthe requests to eventually work, not endlessly repeat... unless it's an issue with missing items and we don't send back the proper "no item" response [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, interesting [11:14] Mata Hari: what debug command would I need to use in order to see the communication between the region and the viewer? [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Then, the queue would start clearing out after she left [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: "debug http in 5" on the simulator would show the entire request, which I think you already did for some logs? [11:15] Mata Hari: yes, I did that [11:15] Mata Hari: absolutely 0 communication between then once the fetch hangs [11:15] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I am having to unravel where the requests are coming from and their traversal through the region modules, etc. [11:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: sounds good. It's a complex system [11:16] Mata Hari: the entire log for that part is region sending GET to the inventory server and receiving responses [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: later I can do another packet dump and cmpare [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't discounted the possibiklity either that it's some horrible issue with the underlying http server closing requests too early or something like that [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I might need acccess to the OSG data to look [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: or I can pass it off to someone who does. [11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: btw - could I get SU on the opensimulator.org site? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm sure ne would be happy to give you the required access? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: sure [11:17] Mata Hari: to be honest I think it's somewhat less likely to be a timing issue since some remote servers can reliably let me load inventory evne though there's a much longer delay [11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: our website was down this am, and it took a while to get it on [11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: mata: that to me would suggest it's definitely connected with timing [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: since root servers have extremely good ping [11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I could at-least start digging in the logs to see if I can find the cause. [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: With the inventory, the next step is to see if the reply is getting back to the viewer and if the viewer is re-requesting the item. [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mata, your not behidn a bad isp router that have not enough memory for routing ? [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah [11:19] Mata Hari: the response times for the same GET commands for her were 150ms + vs my sims were 125 or so [11:19]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: after that, we shoudl have it isolated enough to start looking for the actual cause ... [11:19] Mata Hari: so mine is getting responses from Texas more rapidly [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think the mantis has doen everything except called Ghost Busters [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: lol [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm scared to read it,. it's so long [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it's easy to speculate about anything [11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, then it's a trial and error proposition to "fix" [11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: so must dig and dig to get to the bottom [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, speculation is easy. Actually finding the issue is hard [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ok, I think I just gave you sudo access on opensimulator.org [11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, thanks [11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'll be able to look at logs, etc. now to help out. [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be great. I still need to update soem of the software again (wiki, mantis, etc.) [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: but never find time [11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I dont' have much time either, but maybe I can look into that [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: also, damn thing needs a reboot and I'm always a little scared to do that after the last time it wouldn;'t come back up since it ran out of space on the root partition [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: cool [11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: did logs eat it up? [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: it should reboot just fine but I don't like to do unless I potentially have time afterwards to fix it [11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: (the space) [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: no, kernels :) [11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm, upodates? [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's got a very small boot partition [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah [11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see [11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it was rebooted laste week [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ah ok, cool [11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: my typing sucks more and more [11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol [11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: I long since stopped bothering to correct most of my typos :) [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: speed over accuracy.... [11:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: who said practice makes perfect? [11:25] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ive got a bunch of bots logged in [11:25]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: still going [11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think typos belong to this mellenium :P [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'#,not going to login until we start the test this week [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to see if behaviour is ok at lower numbers [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: but pls carry on with your stuff [11:26] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: k [11:26]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: its only 20 per region [11:27] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Kayaker [11:27] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I made it! [11:27] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: great [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi [11:27]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-) [11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Luisillo didnt see you come in :) [11:27] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: hello im worried about you from your twitt [11:27] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: but you are here you are well [11:27] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-) [11:27]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 whispers: hehe :) [11:28] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: justin have problems .. avatar is ruthed [11:28] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: hahahahaha [11:28] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-) [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh, I'm using my local conf acct since I usually use osgrid for hg and my own hg grid is currently not configured [11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: 60 bots in [11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics today? [11:30]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question about the ossl functions. [11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sure [11:30]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ask away [11:31]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I like to write portable code, but I cannot count on ANY of those functions working whereever I go [11:31]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: indeed [11:31]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: They are not enabled by many for fear of the threat levels. [11:31]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: And I'm not convinced that the threat levels are correct. [11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I agree [11:32] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Why is osMakeNoteCard a HIGH threat level? [11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yea we probably could lighten up on that a bit [11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well [11:32] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: or npc playing animation... [11:32] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, maybe we could do an audit and make a suggested list to tun on. [11:32] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: it can generate permanant assets very fast [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i keep most disabled, if i have something enabled i lock it to me [11:32]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: leading to bloat [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle, osMakeNoteCard could fill the entire asset system with notecards [11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: some levels arev weird yes [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: though that said, there are many other ways that could happen, including just upload for grids with no 'charge' [11:33] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: llSleep can bring a SIM to its knees, but it has no threat level at all. [11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: writing scripts create many assets [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:33] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: threat levels dont apply to LSL at all [11:33] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: then we must block llRezObject or others as this? [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: It's serious, though I would also say the llSleep issue is not one that will cause permanentl issues, unlike filling the file system [11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you block rezz for all, smart todo then problemfixt [11:34] Mata Hari: in many cases (where it bypasses perm checks) it would be very useful if it would work anywhere if target is owner but otherwise failed [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall; that's true tooo [11:34] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: there really is no way to generate scripts automatically though either [11:34] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I shoudl turn on the de-dup assets server you're working on [11:35]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: any known issues with it? [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't mind seeing pathces to revise OSSL levels, though everyone might meet resistance from those with a very high security orientation [11:35] Mata Hari: like being able to write your own OSSL-based AO but not being able to animate someone else unless the function is enabled [11:35] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: There are no old LSL functions that can create assets? [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: no, it's experimental because a) there's stil a possibility I may change the data format and b) I haven't completely worked out a final migration solutions [11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: most of those are walled garden operators anyway, I think? [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: afaik, there are not.... [11:35] Mata Hari: the one I find a little mystifying is osMessageAttachment being as high as it is [11:35]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: no Kayaker there are not [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: maybe, though I think it is right to be very careful about this stuff [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: having other people effectively execute code on your machine is a hairy business [11:36] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [11:36] Mata Hari: other than flooding the region with messages I can't think of anything malicious you could do with it [11:37]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: also, you can't really know all the outcomes of turning a thing on until it's too late [11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Andrew [11:37] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: you made it :) [11:37]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: So, it turns out one of the other grids I'm in was HG enabled. [11:37]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Nice hat andrew [11:37]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Thanks. [11:38]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol andrew. there enough HG grid [11:38]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: There are plenty around but I stay out of HG enabled grids for the most part. [11:38]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: why is veryhight dangerous osAvatarPlayAnimation and osAvatarStopAnimation ? [11:38]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I got here from Kitely, had to remove my nice hat and wear this one though... [11:38]  Mata Hari: because there's no perm check [11:38]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: in a npc? [11:39] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: a npc always give permisions isnt it? [11:39] Mata Hari: so I could wear something that makes eveyone else in the region play any animation I want, regardless [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: luis: it does allow you to play any animiation on any avatar [11:39] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we need to fix that [11:39] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: oh i see [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: which in a social grid is griefing city (apart from llSleep) :) [11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we need a Security allowance for NPC and OSSL [11:39]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: i see .. not only the npc ok [11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we talked about that before Justin and I [11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: fixing the llSleep issue is a priority for me but it's buried behind all my other high priority issues [11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: like how you can do ESTATE_MANAGER [11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we need a NPC class [11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: because the only way you can make NPC run ossl is to allow everyone to run OSSL [11:39]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: kind of dangerous [11:40]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wish NPC could haev inventory and IM [11:40]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: yes im agree [11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats indeed stranbge logic [11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: you cannot set the npc uuid to ossl ? [11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: its not by design Richardus [11:40] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: thank you for clarify [11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: its just a short sited design [11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: justin, I'm interested in some of the LSL issues. My priority re: the engine is to fix some of the parsing errors. [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: /menods [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: the space on this keyboard also doesn't work very well [11:40] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Jim [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: ever since the lat time I took it apart and put it back together [11:41] Mata Hari: there's actually one that I'd like to see changed in function: osAgentSave Appearnace should be *mandatory* permission check from the person whose appearance is being cloned [11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Richardus, an NPC can't do IMs? [11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello Izzie [11:41] Mata Hari: I've had someone clone me without my consent.....was *NOT* ammused [11:41] Jim.Jackson @hypergrid.org:8002: hello [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: yeah, that sounds right, though one issue here is the fact that perms stuff is fixed I think [11:41] Izzie.Applewhyte @hypergrid.org:8002: Hello [11:41] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: we could send one of those Blue Pop ups maybe? [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: so you can't request some arbitrary 'permission' apart from the set already known by SL, afaik [11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: like when a script animates you [11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: it asks you first [11:42] Mata Hari: hm [11:42]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: good idea [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but all that stuff is baked in afair [11:42] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya probably needs viewer team coordination [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: you can't require a new permissions without extending the system, which might require viewer extension [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: don't know for sure [11:42] Mata Hari: I believe you can edit the notecard to remove stuff [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: really, you want some way of requesting arbitrary perms that doesn't require future viewer extension [11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how hard woudl it be to extend the NPC to use the owner inventory? [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: at a guess, very hard [11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :S [11:44] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Notecard? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: if npc's absolutely needed inv, my first thought would be to just do an 'in memory' inventory [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: but that itself is very non-trivial [11:44] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: or just put that stuff in the contents of an attachment [11:44] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and direct the attachment to do stuff with the contents? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: so what's the immediate use case for an npc inventory? [11:44] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: use Listens for commands [11:44] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: thats how i control my npcs [11:44] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I made some NPC avatars and they work in the sim they were created in. But you can't really move them into a new sim [11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: why not? [11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ive moved my npcs to different grids [11:45] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm [11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: the trick with moving npcs [11:45] Mata Hari: really? [11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: is put everything they have attached [11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: into a box [11:45] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and attach that box to the NPC [11:45] Mata Hari: ah [11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: I presume we don't mean 'move' as in have them teleport [11:45] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: :-) [11:45]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, I'll give that a shot [11:45]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya you cant teleport them [11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but moving the script that launches them with the notecard should work [11:46]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no, place the device in another place. [11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: as long as everything they have attached or worn comes with them [11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: however to move them to another grid [11:46]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it seems like the assets are local, and a new regino does not have them cached. [11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: usually i have a box i include in the IAR [11:46]  Mata Hari: yes [11:46]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i doubt just attaching it works accross grid lines [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: which assets in particular? [11:47] Mata Hari: I've never been able to take a notecard to a different grid and use it because the asset UUID aren't recognied [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: usual avatar assets - skins, clothes, etc. [11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: and they are transported via OAR? [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: right Mata, that is what I have seen [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: or you just copy paste script in diff region on same grid? [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmmm, no just take the device - more like an IAR [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, yes I have seen it in an OAR too [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: are the attachments/clothes saved in an appearance notecard? [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: in the same object as the script [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: okay curious, that should work [11:48] Mata Hari: it's transporting the appearance that's the issue....appearances are stored with the asset UUIDs so when you rez the npc those UUID need to be "known" to the grid [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: on IAR save the notecards are scanned from UUID and asset fetch attemps made [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: scanned for UUID [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I will experiment with it and have a better description later - it has been a while since I looked at it. [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: so in princpile that stuff should be in the archive, that's partly why it did that way [11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: cool [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: as a hack which reused existing functionality [11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya all i can say is ive moved my npcs from osgrid to other grids and so on [11:49]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and they worked great [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think that I made a device in a region, then took it to another region [11:49] Mata Hari: via IAR they would [11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: so moving inside of a grid between regions should work fine [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: rezzed it and the assets were not there [11:49] Mata Hari: via tp and then dropping in a notecard it doesn't work [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, even if the iar wasn't saving them, the assets would still bea vailable since appearance saves persisted perviously temporary baked textures [11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: very strange BlueWall definitely give it another go [11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i will be surprised if that is still the case [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: unless some interaction with new code (xbakes, cached textures?) is stopping that from happening [11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, I'll try it later today or tommorow [11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ive done it before and after xbakes [11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: without issue [11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I've got a var region question when you are ready for a new Q [11:50]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: sure ask away [11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yah [11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I've just been told that if you TP from a var to a regular region using the map you crash. If you TP to a reg region from a var using an LM its ok. [11:51] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: yes i confirm this [11:51] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dont think i have seen that problem. the are both 0.8 ? [11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: If you TP from within the 256x256 sw corner of a var to a regular region by map issue you are ok [11:51]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: but have a exception. [11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: This is in 0.8PF [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: but the other problem still exists in post fixes? [11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Lusillo, interesting thought... I'll check [11:52] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: andrew .. if you click in map [11:52] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: map say invalid location [11:52] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: but if you search with map.... twice [11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin: I don't understand the question. This is within a grid that is all running 0.8PF [11:52] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: then you see a bad location as was old normal region [11:52] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: then you click teleport and then you go [11:53]  Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: you must do twice [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I was trying to work out if you only saw the issue with 0.8 release [11:53] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: the same with your profile favourites [11:53] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: first .. show on map [11:53] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: justin, I couldn't say. Only started using/testing vars after updating to 0.8 [11:53] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: after teleport.. and no problem [11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I'm having someone check to see if there are exceptions in the console of the var. [11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: or in the target region [11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: are all the regions running the latest code? or latest release Andrew [11:55] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: I have a question about my magic number 11 in my overload test reported as http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7289 [11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: i know if the region code is not close like say your standalone is not running new code, but older [11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: you are likely to crash the viewer [11:55] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Nebadon, all are running latest code from 0.8PF branch [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: luis. Yeah, I saw you put up a video, haven#t had time to look yet. Other stuff is absorbing all my time atm [11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: that was why we did a +1 on the protocol version [11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok Andrew [11:56] Luisillo.Contepomi @hypergrid.org:8002: ok justing thank you [11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: that is odd indeed then [11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: make sure you have the correct Grid.ini [11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not an old one [11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: insure the correct protocol version is in use [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: at least it sounds like it shouldn't be too hard to reproduce [11:57] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: nebadon, was that meant for me re: a setting in Grid.ini? [11:57] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes [11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ConnectorProtocolVersion = "SIMULATION/0.3" [11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: this [11:58] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok. I had started with the 0.8 INI files and applied my changes so they should be ok. Yes, I remember seeing that one had changed and I have it as 0.3 [11:58] Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok [11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ya not sure what else it could be [11:59]  Nebadon.Izumi @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: should we jump over to Keynotes now? [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: so we're talking a viewer crash here? [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, let'sgo [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: test [12:00] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: this chair is too comfortable [12:00] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I stopped at Keynote 1 on my way here, it was full of Nebanon NPCs already