Chat log from the meeting on 2022-05-24

 [11:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah better throw a smaller house [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:09] Ubit Umarov: but he here he is [11:09] Ubit Umarov: so possible a larger building is still ok [11:10] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Will stick to throwing motorvehicles next time [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Had minor technical difficulaties today. A recent video card driver update required me to reboot my computer before firestorm would run. [11:10] Ubit Umarov: some engine blocks are hard [11:10] Ubit Umarov: selby is reloging [11:10] Ubit Umarov: was having animations issues [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. wb [11:11] Ubit Umarov: better selby.Evans ? [11:11] Ubit Umarov: i see you sitting now [11:12] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: ki again -- fixed [11:12] Ubit Umarov: good [11:12] Ubit Umarov: so andrew.. fire the metting when ready [11:12] Ubit Umarov: oops log already on [11:12] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, did you notice that Ubit made a change that might have fixed your ray casting issue? [11:13] Ubit Umarov: no it did not [11:14] Ubit Umarov: may had improved it [11:14] Kayaker Magic: Awww, you are dashing all my hopes.... [11:15] Ubit Umarov: Tampa made that patch reverting some of my code.. that was not a good revert, but he did notice improvement [11:15] Ubit Umarov: in fact i had misplaced a math sqrt call [11:15] Ubit Umarov: coff coff [11:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'm building a binary at the moment to continue testing and see what else I can find [11:16] Ubit Umarov: for ray lengh > region size, that does have performance impact, ofc [11:16] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: The original commit was missing a sqrt as it was squaring the distance, which triggered a race condition somewhere [11:16] Ubit Umarov: major issue is on the physics lic [11:16] Ubit Umarov: lib [11:16] Ubit Umarov: as i said ray load scales with the square of the ray len [11:17] Ubit Umarov: that is just bad.. and can be linear with it [11:17] Ubit Umarov: just needs a nicer sweep algoritm [11:18] Ubit Umarov: my my loss of the sqrt was making it even worse, ofc :) [11:18] Ubit Umarov: if you asked 10m, if did 100 .. oops ;) [11:19] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Yeah triggered some sort of loop, not sure where, but it was quite bad, though I had no crashes, just heartbeat failures [11:19] Ubit Umarov: no not a loop [11:20] Ubit Umarov: the silly code did ray checks on a box 100x100 instead of 10x10 [11:20] Ubit Umarov: ( on x,y) [11:20] Ubit Umarov: as i said i want to change that to a linear search.. but will take more time [11:21] Ubit Umarov: i mean seach on a line, not on a box [11:21] Ubit Umarov: well this was a change just today [11:21] Ubit Umarov: still needs check ofc [11:22] Ubit Umarov: other changes last week, let me see [11:22] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Code donation for projector settings [11:22] Ubit Umarov: yes [11:23] Ubit Umarov: i did accept a patch from lickx ?? [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Lotek [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: That must be the one related to PRIM_PROJECTOR [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Yep [11:24] Ubit Umarov: to support PRIM_PROJECTOR on LlSetPrimitiveParams*  functions [11:25] Ubit Umarov: also a patch from vicent suporting on the *Get* [11:25] Ubit Umarov: thi slast one has some issues, so lets consider it a temporary acceptance [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to look that one up. I don't remember what that is supposed to do. [11:25] Ubit Umarov: SL does not have it [11:26] Ubit Umarov: thing is reading textures IDs [11:26] Ubit Umarov: sl blocks that [11:26] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: SL removed the Get part for "security reasons" yeah, not really a thing in OpenSim [11:26] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Checking llGetTexture for if the prim owner has that texture in inventory is really heavy check to do [11:27] Ubit Umarov: on most cases lsl can only display a texture ( texture, material maps, etc ) if script owner has full rights on the prim [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: If there was concern about that one option would have been to make the get an OSSL function to have an Allow for it. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: in case of the project, it jsut does not suport get [11:27] Ubit Umarov: listed on wiki but does not work [11:28] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: llGetTexture already has no security checks, SL checks things on that, so I figured eh doesn't matter [11:28] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Not called ClosedSim is it [11:28] Ubit Umarov: so far we do not restrict reading on textures UUIDs on LSL/OSSL [11:28] Ubit Umarov: so for now i just accept it withotu checks also [11:29] Ubit Umarov: thi sis something we will need to review one day... [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:29] Ubit Umarov: but to hide UUIDs as SL does is not exactly a security feature [11:29] Ubit Umarov: oh related to that i did restrict some ossl [11:30] Ubit Umarov: our osSet/get paraemters on other prims [11:30] Ubit Umarov: now not only owner needs to be the same, but also needs to have modify rights [11:30] Ubit Umarov: no need on same prim.. [11:31] Ubit Umarov: hmm actuallus should change that to same linkset [11:31] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Happy to report just tested raycast again on master and it again reports to have found the prim and time is 0.051200 so that commit definitely helped with the worst of the issue :) [11:32] Ubit Umarov: also changed the prim owner used, to be the root prim one, the one that is really valid [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Sounds good. [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, thanks for the test report. [11:32] Ubit Umarov: our code should fix owner on all prims of a linkset.. but... should.. not sure if does [11:33] Ubit Umarov: anyways the only valid is the rootprim one.. so all our checks should be on that.. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: at least changed to that on that spot :) [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:33] Ubit Umarov: in fact owner should not even be a part parameter [11:34] Ubit Umarov: just a linkset or sceneobjectgroup in our code thing [11:34] Ubit Umarov: but wll viewers also think parts have owers.. so.. details [11:35] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Also removed some casts from lsl api that were not needed, saving some nanoseconds :) [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:36] Ubit Umarov: oops the phone call also made me forget to tell on mantis the code change on rays [11:36] Ubit Umarov: wonder why fs decides to whisper :) [11:37] Ubit Umarov: just ns on compile, compiler is not that stupid :) (no whisper version) [11:37] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Already takes 20 minutes to a compile so everything helps, well mostly slow tests and jenkins being weird [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, shift key down when you hit enter, IIRC. [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: test... [11:38] Ubit Umarov: meanwhile on Firestorm Jira etc some more talks abotu that new inventory checks [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. that's it. [11:38] Ubit Umarov: firestorm mostly just turned all them just warnings on opensim [11:38] Ubit Umarov: but some more talk went on abotu this or that detail [11:39] Ubit Umarov: no idea abotu other viewers [11:39] Ubit Umarov: think alchemy had just fixed that not merging the ll code for opensim [11:40] Ubit Umarov: hmm there was some other thing on viewers? [11:40] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I like the idea of fixing inventories up a bit, helps with IARs actually going through and not failing half way through, so some good stuff in there, just was a bit strict for OpenSim modular design [11:40] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I did mention to FS and Alchemy that we had that RSS feed for grid status now [11:41] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: They seem to want to implement that at some point [11:41] Ubit Umarov: wel users should merge dupicated system folders [11:41] Ubit Umarov: outch typos [11:42] Ubit Umarov: grids can try some clean up on dbs [11:42] Ubit Umarov: but as soon they load a IAR they can get "bad things" again [11:42] Kayaker Magic: My alt also reports that the llCastRay changes this morning fixed the problem [11:42] Ubit Umarov: as i said, i have no planes to remove the IAR duplication of folders [11:43] Ubit Umarov: unless the option -merge is added [11:43] Ubit Umarov: because that does help users to proper merge them [11:43] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I think that is actually a good approach, because in some cases you want to effectively do a replace of inventory rather than merging anyways [11:43] Ubit Umarov: ...or allows users to merge them... [11:44] Ubit Umarov: yeah, that also [11:44] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: DB cleanup is something grid operators need to do anyways given the garbage that can collect if not careful [11:44] Ubit Umarov: can't have a automatic solution for all cases [11:45] Ubit Umarov: and to be real that is not and should never be a issue for viewers [11:45] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Most cases users can fix themselves even, only needs admin intervention in really broken cases [11:45] Ubit Umarov: as i said the only case then want a clean system folder is when deciding where to put a new created item [11:46] Ubit Umarov: but that they can put on the just the frst they find that fits criterias like folder type [11:47] Ubit Umarov: so several copies with same name and type, is not a breaking issue [11:47] Ubit Umarov: just ugly and confusing to have [11:47] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: We also had some fun with mono project this week, Ubit went full berserk-mode :D [11:48] Ubit Umarov: but most users have a grandson that will he happy to help cleanup inventory [11:48] Ubit Umarov: ahh yeah ... mono.. jezz [11:49] Ubit Umarov: mono made no new release since Feb last year [11:49] Ubit Umarov: then last week, just decided to make one.. [11:49] Ubit Umarov: and made a big mess on the packages for linux [11:49] Ubit Umarov: so they where useless [11:50] Ubit Umarov: we even did got a mantis on that [11:50] Ubit Umarov: several ppl, inc vicent, had report it, telling the exact issue etc [11:50] Ubit Umarov: and they ignored it [11:50] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Basically forgot to bump the msbuild version in the latest release so mismatched that with the supporting libraries making compile fail, could be fixed by adding their preview repo which was the same version, but they did now fix their stable repo as well [11:51] Ubit Umarov: i went rant to discord, ofc :p [11:51] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: That got their attention [11:51] Ubit Umarov: yeah.. it took that.. [11:51] Kayaker Magic: Is it safe to update to latest mono yet? [11:51] Ubit Umarov: so yesterday they fixed the packages.. ( at least some) [11:52] Ubit Umarov: then forgot the page, still only telling about the older versions [11:52] Ubit Umarov: me at discord again.. [11:52] Ubit Umarov: and they fixed the page [11:52] Ubit Umarov: it now does tell thye did release .. 179 [11:53] Ubit Umarov: ofc they still forgot the release notes.. [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:53] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Which yes so far seems to work fine, slightly faster compiles according to jenkins [11:53] Ubit Umarov: se me [11:53] Ubit Umarov: Ubit — Yesterday at 6:00 PM yeah looks better, now the release notes on the site? [6:00 PM] https://www.mono-project.com/docs/about-mono/releases/ [11:53] Ubit Umarov: and ok jthey did read me... [11:53] Ubit Umarov: so: [11:54] Ubit Umarov: Ubit — Yesterday at 6:58 PM cool see release notes for Mono 6.12.0.174 (22 Mar 2022) [6:58 PM] can we now have the ones for Mono 6.12.0.179 (22 Mar 2022) ? [11:54] Ubit Umarov: they ignore me :p [11:55] Ubit Umarov: they did release 6.12.0.179 but only show release notes for a 174 they never did release [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well [11:55] Ubit Umarov: this is very sad [11:55] Ubit Umarov: just shows how current MS totally ignores mono [11:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Ubit "No Chill" Umarov heh, though I agree that is really bad way to handle release, they get paid for this... [11:56] Ubit Umarov: for them mono is just dead.. keeping it just to "look cool.." [11:57] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Keeping the illusion of caring for open source, while they just use it on their cloud to make bank, soon as it makes them no more money it will get dropped like hot potato [11:58] Ubit Umarov: they also have commits like mine!!! ie like "fix some bugs" [11:58] Ubit Umarov: lol [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Always a very informative commit message. :P [11:58] Ubit Umarov: they have a big list of pull requests they mostly ignore [11:59] Ubit Umarov: and a ton of issue reports there getting dust [11:59] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Over 2k issues on github no wonder important issues get lost [11:59] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Why you think I been working to clean mantis, you need to know what's wrong if you want to fix things [11:59] Ubit Umarov: i almost could read how bored the guy was, going to do the fix :p [12:00] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: heh [12:00] Ubit Umarov: ffor them dotnet is the only golden eggs chicken they care about [12:01] Ubit Umarov: fun think on release 122 last year i also had to tell then on discord that there where no release notes [12:01] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Thankfully it still is open source so if Xamarin continues to screw things up there is the small chance some competent people fork it [12:02] Ubit Umarov: samarin is gone [12:02] Ubit Umarov: mono is now supposed to be owned by a foundation [12:02] Ubit Umarov: that is mostly owned by ms [12:03] Ubit Umarov: well it was a huge mistake to make opensim on c# [12:03] Ubit Umarov: but no point keep talking about that.. [12:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Not as big a mistake as making it on c++ lol [12:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: But yeah now we deal with it best we can [12:04] Ubit Umarov: nah c++ is terrible, but everything else is trash :p [12:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Lots of elbow grease and swearing [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:05] Ubit Umarov: ofc c would be better.. but lets not go that far :p [12:06] Ubit Umarov: c++ is even worse than c, since allows for a ton of diferent solutions to pile up [12:06] Ubit Umarov: ohh and insane abuse of macros [12:06] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Porting OpenSim to C and before you know it you find yourself writing kernel patches... [12:06] Ubit Umarov: C# did had a more clean language definition [12:07] Ubit Umarov: a lot nicer to read and write than c++ [12:07] Ubit Umarov: problem it the stupid managed part [12:07] Ubit Umarov: total failed GC [12:08] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: c++ put me off coding when I first started to learn it for school, it was so backwards and weird for simple tasks, c# is beginner friendly [12:08] Ubit Umarov: JIT mess etc [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I've also found that any project written in C++ code takes a lot longer than any C based project. [12:08] Ubit Umarov: i once did read a book abotu c++ [12:08] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: And most c++ is like you need boost and cmake and then this and that dependency, total mess to get working at time, case in point, viewers [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I might have a book around here on C++ [12:09] Ubit Umarov: sent it the the trash when i did reach "friend classes" [12:09] Ubit Umarov: what a **** bahh [12:09] Ubit Umarov: that was a total negation of all told before about objects lol [12:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Not even the good kind of friends with benefits, friends with demands more like [12:10] Ubit Umarov: lets not go that path :P [12:10] Ubit Umarov: so... what news do you have about opensim? [12:10] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:12] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Was testing the whole thing with the objects not deleting properly and thought I could simulate that by making a lot of prims, so wrote my first auto replication script to rezz tons of prims, promptly forgot it was on state entry and when testing yesterday it made over 3 million prims [12:12] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Finally used all the memory on my computer though [12:13] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: So I now know that all sticks work properly lol [12:13] Ubit Umarov: lol [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: lol [12:14] Kayaker Magic: Self replicating objects is what attracted me to SL back in the day. But it is hard to prevent it from running away from you.... [12:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I set it to only make 10k prims, but then I kept rebuilding and testing so restarted like 200 times or more and it kept making more and more [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon has some scripts that make some objects which involved a huge number of prims. [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: The Klein bottle and a Sierpinski triangle. [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to half past the hour. Any last minute topics for today? [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see anyone typing so I will take that as a no. [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: ON that basis I will close todays meeting. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [12:20] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye all [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby [12:21] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks everybody