Chat log from the meeting on 2019-12-10

[11:00] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I am using SceneGate [11:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and? [11:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seems it works :) [11:02] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Scenegate works, yes [11:02] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, did you look into including the pre-processor in Dayturn? [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I looked into it, and I think it is doable [11:05] Kayaker Magic: I have a question for Ubit: How do we interpret the output of Top Scripts? The numbers seem higher than earlier versions. [11:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we don't .. :) [11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: speciall on Y those numbers are odd [11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, interpret them the same as before. Lower is better. Higher is worse. [11:07] Kayaker Magic: I keep running into people who say "if it is above 40 I throw it out!" [11:07] Kayaker Magic: then I look with YEngine and it is 1,000,000 [11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I haven't determined what is the "cut-off point" in 0.9 vs 0.8 [11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: some ppl asked me for magic number for good low lag scripts.. no idea [11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: adn the numbers are version/engine dependent [11:08] Sheera Khan: maybe you should let those people explain what the numbers mean if they are that confident 40+ is bad ^^ [11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Find a script that has a runtime around 1 or so in 0.8 then run the same script in 0.9 and see what number you get. That will give you an approximate number to use as a cut-off. Just because it is high doesn't immediately mean you completely throw it out. [11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I should check for some of the bad scripts I've fixed in 0.8 and see if I have the original version to allow me to compare numbers between 0.8 and 0.9 [11:11] Kayaker Magic: So can you give me some hint what the code is doing? Counting miliseconds used by a script in a fixed test period? [11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: kinda that yes [11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but code has no fingers.. hard to count [11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe [11:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so whats new on opensim? [11:14] Kayaker Magic: LOL, you are supposed to tell us! [11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ohh? [11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well i still have KFM compatibity as i had, didn't touch it [11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: lightshare will be removed [11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: did it already, well all the active parts [11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: a fs dev has been here testing bom [11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: (Beq) [11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well that's it :) [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you push the lightshare removal? [11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no [11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: my code is now a mess [11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: guess ill do a big messy commit lol [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: aha! [11:17] Kayaker Magic: Last week I had a question about an OpenSim setup that was unable to start MySQL. One suggestion was to delete the addon-db folder and try again. [11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( some files also have kfm changes etc ) [11:18] Kayaker Magic: Well, this is a new system and it fails before creating that folder, so I cannot delete it. Any other suggestions for why OpenSim cant start up with errors there? [11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: mono addins fails? [11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, OS doesn't start MySQL. Do you mean it isn't able to connect to MySQL? [11:20] Kayaker Magic: [SERVICE BASE]: Failed to load plugin OpenSim.Region.Framework.Interfaces.ISimulationDataStore from OpenSim.Data.MySQL.dll .... [11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... that's odd. [11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Is that the first error you get during startup? [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had that one too [11:21] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, early in the startup log. [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when I tested master on the PI [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but I got it past that point [11:21] Kayaker Magic: This is on an x86 system, not the Pi. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I understand but the code is identical [11:22] Ubit Umarov: see no issues on that [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Just to cover the bases, you have verified the connection string is valid? [11:22] Kayaker Magic: I checked my MySQL out, logged in with the same user and passowrd, restored an OpenSim DB from another system... [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have upgraded my test regions to run the latest dev and it all works OK [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Which version of mono are you using? [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but on the PI there is a very odd crash on loading data in grid mode, but not in standalone [11:23] Kayaker Magic: mono 6.4 [11:24] Kayaker Magic: This system is going to conect to OSGrid. [11:25] Ubit Umarov: i also have no idea why those missing prims some ppl report [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, You made some changes to mono addins recently. Any chance those changes could be related? [11:25] Ubit Umarov: i noticed no impact on opensim [11:25] Kayaker Magic: No [11:25] Kayaker Magic: I'm using the same binaries on several other systems, it works fine there. [11:26] Kayaker Magic: I'm sure I did SOMETHING wrong here, looking for hints.... [11:26] Ubit Umarov: no idea :( [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Same version of os and same version of Mono? [11:26] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, Ubuntu 18.04 [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. The only other things I can think to try would be to try an earlier version of Mono or roll back the code to before the mono addins changes to eliminate one or both of those items as being the cause of the problem. [11:28] Kayaker Magic: OK, I'll keep hacking at it.... [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Have you also checked to make sure you don't have a firewall issue? [11:29] Kayaker Magic: Several other similar systems are working fine. [11:29] Ubit Umarov: "I just lost some terrain at 200 ! This sucks ( so far no grey AV) " [11:30] Ubit Umarov: bahhh [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you have the "Old Guids" option in the connection strings? [11:30] Ubit Umarov: and what can i do? ive been at his region with 3000kbps and had no missing prims [11:30] Ubit Umarov: :( [11:30] Kayaker Magic: What is Old Guids? [11:31] Ubit Umarov: ( that was about http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8516) [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kayaker, did you say you upgraded MySQL? [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to version 8? [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, it is one of the options that can be included in the connection string. It is a boolean that can be either true or false. [11:33] Kayaker Magic: It is a brand new Ubuntu instalation, so it is a recent version of mysql. [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you install legacy support for MySQl 8? [11:34] Kayaker Magic: Just did the normal install, got version 14.14 [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: 14?? [11:35] Kayaker Magic: mysql -V mysql Ver 14.14 Distrib 5.7.28, for Linux (x86_64) using  EditLine wrapper [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: MySQL 8.0 connectors and community drivers that use libmysqlclient 8.0 now support the mysql_native_password default authentication plugin. However, if you are unable to update your clients and applications to support this new authentication method, you can configure the MySQL server to use mysql_native_password for legacy authentication. For more information about the implications of this change, see caching_sha2_password as the Preferred Authentication Plugin. [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't think they were up that high in version numbers. I have 8. [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from this page https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/mysql-installer-workflow.html [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. Thanks for finding that note, Gavin. I'd forgotten about that. [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, I had to make that change on my machine. [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. Just found the setting in /etc/mysql/mysql.conf.d/mysqld.cnf in the [mysqld] section. [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: default_authentication_plugin = mysql_native_password [11:39] Kayaker Magic: Well, I'll try Old Guids next chance I have. [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Try adding that setting [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: and see if it helps. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: does the new viewer suport animesh and bom selby ? [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there an announcement yet? [11:42] Ubit Umarov: thing there was, at maria's etc [11:42] Ubit Umarov: and guess at oscc [11:43] Ubit Umarov: think* [11:43] Ubit Umarov: not sure if the sources are avaiable now [11:44] Ubit Umarov: beening lgpl.. [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Not quite. Family just got back from a visit to the hospital. [11:44] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: no new viewer does not suppor t animesh yet [11:44] Ubit Umarov: ok [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bento? [11:45] Ubit Umarov: gezz bad gavin.. bento is olllldddd [11:45] Ubit Umarov: well but got improvements [11:45] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Maybe on road map, but now working on alternative voice [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bento is not THAT old it was in beta forever [11:46] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: More secure voice [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure why the obsession of secure voice [11:47] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I don't know about Bento -- not a priority [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: besides vivox significantly tightened security on their version earlier this year [11:48] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Secure voice required for business and for students (FERPA) [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which are the main customers for vivox [11:49] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: And some don't want to be [11:50] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: OK with FERPA if students are not identified [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Is FERPA another one of those US based privacy laws? [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like it [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not even the president can have any privacy in that country [11:51] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: yes, andrew =-- that's it [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:51] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is pretty much irrelevant for the rest of the planet [11:53] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Other nations have similar laws [11:53] Ubit Umarov: our main concern with voice is avaiabilty and cost [11:53] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: But US is a big market [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The EU have a number of directives that the US completely ignore ;-) [11:53] Ubit Umarov: vivox may end the free accounts they gave [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got one 2 months ago [11:55] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: International services are a headache [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it sure is [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well but opensim is a international thing :) [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why we only can have names in ASCII ;-)) [11:57] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Businesses run their own OpenSim in house --on their own secure facilities [11:58] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: So -- yes, international in a sense -- and private in another sense [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: There has been talk of being able to use Mumble/Whisper in the past for voice but it required some (minor?) changes in the viewer end. [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the use case for a business which requires high degree of security (above all the other security they have on their private nets)? [12:00] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Mumbler is the current target for SceneGate [12:01] Ubit Umarov: not much free options [12:01] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Business don't need free options [12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah but we are opensim [12:02] Ubit Umarov: closed options are not our (direct) "game" [12:02] Ubit Umarov: and usernames ascII well yeah [12:02] Ubit Umarov: side effect of computer history [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: FERPA may be US only (at the moment) but there is that European privacy law that came in to effect that had an impact on people around the world had to deal with. [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: We are past the hour. [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Just a final reminder that the OSCC is this weekend. [12:05] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I will be posting abour OSCC [12:05] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: about [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: The website for details about the conference is at https://conference.opensimulator.org/2019/. Keep an eye on that site for the conference schedule. [12:06] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Conference schedule is there [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The timing is just bad. Christmas preparations all week-end [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all of December actually [12:07] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: https://conference.opensimulator.org/2019/event-directory/ [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. It wasn't there a few days ago when I last checked. I know some people who were having a Christmas party that weekend but I'll be at the OSCC instead. [12:07] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Right Andrew -- but I have beed c hecking everyday [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Selby, ok. I haven't been doing that. :) [12:08] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I needed schedule fo blog article [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if they posted videos I might be interested in registering and paying [12:08] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: I expect them to post videos [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Videos of the panels are available some time after the conference. [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they said that the 2 last years, and only a fraction was posted at some random site [12:09] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: but you don't need to pay for videos [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, you can also watch a live stream of the talks being given. [12:10] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: They may have more funds this year -- to pay for videos [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of which are in the middle of my night [12:11] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: Most presentations are 20 mins long [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The schedule says there was a load test but I hadn't heard about it so I missed it. [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I got there after seeing a message on twitter [12:11] SELBY.EVANS @grid.metaversedepot.com:8002: So people may watch the videos now [12:11] Ubit Umarov: gavin seen it [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they said it went well, and it worked OK as far as I could tell [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: 20 minutes isn't very long for the talks. They used to be slightly longer in the past. [12:12] Ubit Umarov: think we where having a flood of 50 avatars at lbsa at that time [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: poor Ubit was flooded by students [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, any idea on how many avatars took part in the load test? [12:13] Ubit Umarov: well its a nice flood [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 50ish [12:13] Ubit Umarov: they could just teach how to direct login to their regions [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. That's not that many. [12:13] Ubit Umarov: several waves [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was not packed in any way [12:13] Ubit Umarov: during the evening [12:14] Ubit Umarov: guess they distribute in time [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: If nebadon had been around he could have gotten 50 avatars in to the grid on his own. [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't know why they just sent out a tweet [12:14] Ubit Umarov: who cares about pcampbots? [12:14] Ubit Umarov: ;p [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have no idea why they just sent out a tweet [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, not very good. Not everyone uses Twitter. [12:15] Ubit Umarov: well i didn't knew about that stress test time