Chat log from the meeting on 2008-12-30



10:51] BlueWall Slade is Online

10:51] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: more lag

10:52] sim core: ?

10:52] Nebadon Izumi: hello

10:52] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: hi neb

10:52] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hey Neb

10:52] sim core: Greetings, nebadon and all

10:53] robert omegamu: hi all :-)

10:53] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hello

10:53] Nebadon Izumi: we'll be getting started shortly with meeting, it might be light attendance today by the devs

10:53] Nebadon Izumi: but we'll see

10:53] Karlos Frog: Hi, anyone who knows this place

10:54] sim core: ( I don't dare sitting, I just got sent to 128, 128,128 last time I tried :-)

10:54] sim core: *Try

10:55] sim core: Lol, karlos

10:55] Karlos Frog: hihi

10:56] Karlos Frog: wery funny Scotty

10:56] sim core: You should take the shuttle, next time ;-J

10:57] Karlos Frog: This is my first visit here ...

10:58] Nebadon Izumi: Hello Karlos, welcome to the grid

10:58] sim core: Nice!

10:58] Karlos Frog: I did some scripting-building in SL ...

10:59] Karlos Frog: ... and may be would like to run my own server to build a German Sci-Fi series decoration

11:00] Karlos Frog: (not Star Trek :-) Raumpatrouille

11:00] sim core: You might like to read the instructions on 'opensimulator.org', karlos :-J

11:00] Fly Man is Online

11:00] Charles Krinke is Online

11:00] Karlos Frog: Yes, I just wanted to see how much works already ...

11:00] Teravus Ousley is Online

11:00] Homer Horwitz: Hi

11:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Charles

11:00] Karlos Frog: ... but I can't find a working Sandbox

11:00] kefcom belgium: llo

11:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Snowdrop

11:01] Charles Krinke: Morning

11:01] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: hi

11:01] Snowdrop Short: hi

11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: hello Justin :)

11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks

11:01] Charles Krinke: Just go use one of my regions for a sandbox, Karlos

11:01] Charles Krinke: y

11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: lets go upstairs :)

11:01] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

11:01] sim core: Hi justin and all :-J

11:01] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hi all

11:01] Fly Man: Evening all

11:01] Charles Krinke: Yang, Celt, Phobos, Deimos, Io, Europa,

11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Hello Charles

11:01] Charles Krinke: Hi, NEbadon

11:02] Richardus Raymaker is Online

11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Nebadon

11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Homer

11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Fly :)

11:02] Fly Man: Hey Snoopy

11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: hello Teravus

11:03] Charles Krinke: Boy, these cushions are *really* soft and *absorbing*.

11:03] Fly Man: Grab a chair Teravus :)

11:03] Nebadon Izumi: :)

11:03] Charles Krinke: We just seem to *sink* into them.

11:03] sim core: ( I don't dare to sit anymore, I prefer staying out of the 128,128,128 zone when I get up, lol )

11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

11:03] Fly Man: Hope everyone had a good Christmas ?

11:04] sim core: Yes

11:04] Charles Krinke: Coitainly. Are things a bit more consistent with the testing this week?

11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: elastic-fantastic

11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

11:04] Nebadon Izumi: yea logins

11:04] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt

11:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i have clocked logins at needing about 1024kbs of bandwidth per avatar

11:05] Nebadon Izumi: for a few seconds only

11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but its enough that when 4-5 people login we exceed this servers capacity for bandwidth

11:05] Nebadon Izumi: it never really fully recovers either after that happens it seems

11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm

11:05] sim core: Main thing I tested was prim to prim collisions, seems to be pretty much the same, works well with ground mostly

11:05] Nebadon Izumi: like certain delays start to cause issues in the simulator

11:06] Nebadon Izumi: and eventually it spirals down and goes down

11:06] Nebadon Izumi: we still seem to get alot of the sim looks ok on the console

11:06] Nebadon Izumi: but logins are denied

11:06] Fly Man: But Nebadon, is this the User server going done in the spiral

11:06] Nebadon Izumi: on the plazas

11:06] Fly Man: or the regions ?

11:06] Nebadon Izumi: regions

11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sim restart fixes it

11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, down the plughole

11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if anybody has noticed another problem I've had on the most recent revisions. On a standalone with lots of regions on Linux I get various client problems

11:07] Richardus Raymaker: question about wright plaza. is filter_collision true or false here ?

11:07] Charles Krinke: Like the client tends to log out?

11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: clients stop responding to commands properly. And then when somebody logs out a child agent ends up being left behind - and the sim degrades rapidly from there

11:07] Teravus Ousley: I wonder if anyone has noticed the issues with linked physical prim :)

11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, there do seem to be spontaneous client logouts as well :(

11:07] sim core: I only run 2 regions on standalone, but 5 on grid

11:07] Homer Horwitz: Yep, I did :)

11:07] Richardus Raymaker: yes. you cant delete them many time

11:08] Charles Krinke: I see that. Better the client then the sim.

11:08] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: if set phisical to link crash region on ubuntu

11:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Diva

11:08] Homer Horwitz: The linked pysical prims, I mean. Found a missing setMass, but that's not all, it still crashes...

11:08] Diva Canto: hi

11:08] Biskit Maker: hi

11:08] Teravus Ousley: On that note.. I've isolated it to d.MassRotate having different results on linux and windows.

11:08] Fly Man: Hey Diva

11:08] Homer Horwitz: Ter: Ah, interesting.

11:08] Charles Krinke: I promised a few folks that I would mention the notion of "stable" svn to recommend for who wish to be one step back from the leading edge each week.

11:08] Teravus Ousley: on linux.. it returns a fabulous number.. NaN

11:09] Homer Horwitz: Ter: Let me checkin that missing setMass; could you try again, then?

11:09] Teravus Ousley: what is interesting, however, is it appeared to be working fine before..

11:09] Fly Man: Charles, what is a stable SVN trunk ;)

11:09] Charles Krinke: We have a binary download on opensimulator.org and osgrid.org for those that wish to *not* compile, and we have a recommended stable SVN. I think it is fair that we recommend at this meeting each week what both those versions are.

11:09] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: works fine

11:09] Teravus Ousley: Homer, no need. I've got it in my current dev revision.

11:09] Homer Horwitz: Ah, ok.

11:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: Charles that is a great concept - developers will not get too many support requests for the latest svn versions

11:10] Teravus Ousley: .. additionally, it was set on the root prim somewhere else... so it wasn't really needed in that loop.

11:10] Fly Man: Charles, I ask Nebadon to create a new stable release every Saturday before the Q&A Hours

11:10] Charles Krinke: So, there are two datapoints. One is a binary download and the other is a "recommended stable svn".

11:10] Fly Man: that's the binary release that gets on the website

11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: what is a stable SVN?

11:11] Teravus Ousley: I'm dealing with things that look almost as bad as regex : dMULTIPLY2_333 (t1,m->I,R); > dMULTIPLYOP2_333(A,=,B,C); ---> (A) 0] op dDOT((B + 4),(C + 4)); ---> dDOTpq(a,b,1,1); ---> dDOTpq(a,b,p,q) ((a) 0]*(b) 0] + (a) p]*(b) q] + (a) 2*(p)]*(b) 2*(q)])

11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: nice

11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: stable means that it works more or less stable

11:11] Nebadon Izumi: the stable Repo you mean?

11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe

11:11] sim core: Something that does not crash every 2 hours, in my view

11:11] Nebadon Izumi: or just 1 specifc rev in the main repo charles?

11:11] Charles Krinke: I am thinking that "stable svn recommendation" is one that has been tested a bit on one or more plazas and a few folks like Nebadon, daTwitch, myself and others *recommend* each week, if that is ok with everyone.

11:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: so that "normal" osgrid users can build and chat, etc.

11:12] Tommi Laukkanen: ss

11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: fine by me. THough stable might be overselling it a bit

11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yes

11:12] Fly Man: I would call it

11:12] Fly Man: "Developers Choice"

11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i think we need to stop using stable, and called it "Supported"

11:12] Charles Krinke: What should we call it?

11:12] Justin Clark-Casey laughs

11:12] Nebadon Izumi: vs UnSupported

11:12] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: heh, there have been very few times that head wouldn't behave pretty good in OSgrid

11:12] Nebadon Izumi: stable is confusing term

11:12] Charles Krinke: A rose by any other name?

11:12] sim core: ( Shaky and 'shakeless' would dound good :-)

11:12] Tommi Laukkanen: stable means production ready I guess

11:12] Richardus Raymaker: yes, stable says to much for it

11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes only that "stable" version should be supported on irc

11:12] sim core: *Sound

11:12] Charles Krinke: Lets pick a name and just go for it.

11:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: on #opensim

11:13] Homer Horwitz: Not-quite-as-unstable-as-normal?

11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: what would "Supported" mean though?

11:13] Nebadon Izumi: many times the "Stable" repo is actually less stable than the Main SVN head

11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its say most of the time

11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its=i'd

11:13] Tommi Laukkanen: release candidate?

11:13] Fly Man: Uhm, there's a saying in Dutch that says "If it works, it's a developers choice"

11:13] Teravus Ousley: but wait.. trunk is supposed to be broken.. so lets not make that recommendation.

11:13] Nebadon Izumi: so it becomes consuing to use that term to describe something thats not actually stable

11:14] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: ++ on rc

11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Developors choice is nice, but a bit too fancy

11:14] Teravus Ousley: the developers reserve the right to break trunk for hundreds of revisions at a time :)

11:14] Charles Krinke: "Last Tested", "Current", "Deployed" ?

11:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: maybe "tested prerelease"?

11:14] Biskit Maker: would this 'stable' / 'developers choice' have to be updatged weekly? Could it not be something that is used a reference for OSGRID?

11:14] Nebadon Izumi: I think Supported and Unsuppoted is less confusing

11:14] Fly Man: Deployment 

11:14] Homer Horwitz: How about "unstable". Trunk would be "broken", then :P

11:14] Teravus Ousley: well, as long as the community is supporting it :)

11:14] Chris D is Online

11:14] Charles Krinke: I know, Teravus. I'm just trying to find a way to recommend a version for folks on #opensim to relieve some pressure on the developers and you guys are all hung up on the fracken name.

11:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: "supported prerelease"?

11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: would "Supported" mean that people are prepared to give help on it

11:14] Nebadon Izumi: sure, I think something that doesnt relate to stability is the imporant part

11:15] Charles Krinke: Yes, Justin. That is the point.

11:15] Nebadon Izumi: because none are really stable in any way shape or form

11:15] Tommi Laukkanen: how about just calling it edge or something like that :)

11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: as lng as people don't think that 'supported' doesn't mean that it's a separate branch on which bug fixes would take place....

11:15] Nebadon Izumi: sure, but using Edge would require further explination

11:15] Nebadon Izumi: where as supported unsupported requires no explinatioon

11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, as long as they don't think it means that

11:15] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: the !stable-svn-snaspshot-you're-on-your-on-release

11:15] Richardus Raymaker: but is you dont give ""support"" on tranks how to find bugs ?

11:15] Fly Man: early access ?

11:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: "residents release" versus "developers release"?

11:16] Fly Man: prototype ?

11:16] Chris D is Offline

11:16] Tommi Laukkanen: early access is nice I guess

11:16] Charles Krinke: Just pick a fracken-fritzen-name for it. It doesnt matter. It will change each week.

11:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats nice snoopy

11:16] Fly Man: technical preview ?

11:16] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: crash-test-dummy release

11:16] Teravus Ousley: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html :)

11:16] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: pre-release

11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but still, I think the most basic explination is what we should choose

11:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes prerelease

11:16] Orion Hax: call it what it is experiment #636

11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: "almost borken?"

11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Supported / Unsupported

11:16] Fly Man: I'd go with prerelease

11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you dont get anymore basic really

11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I like supported most

11:16] Fly Man: or prototype

11:16] Nebadon Izumi: they are all prerelease

11:16] Charles Krinke: The last thing I expected was to get wrapped up in the name this morning.

11:17] Nebadon Izumi: tooooooooo confusing

11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

11:17] Nebadon Izumi: someting clear and easy

11:17] Chris D is Online

11:17] Biskit Maker: how about 'usable release'?

11:17] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: prerelease supported on #opensim trunk is trunk

11:17] Nebadon Izumi: Supported / Unsupported

11:17] Fly Man: uhm,

11:17] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt get any clearer

11:17] Fly Man: just call it beta :p

11:17] Fly Man: or gamma

11:17] Biskit Maker: nothing stated about supported

11:17] sim core: How about 'alpha' for very new and 'beta' for tested a bit more?

11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: we can use the group of intended users as basis

11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: - residents

11:17] Blaksmith Rubble is Online

11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: everything is alpha right now

11:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: - developers / testers

11:17] Nebadon Izumi: we need people never involved here at this meeting

11:17] Biskit Maker: this weeks usable release is XXXX

11:17] Teravus Ousley: heh, alpha and beta presume that it's a progression.. and it's not.. it's all alpha :)

11:17] Charles Krinke: We will pick some name, put notes on the wiki and osgrid describing the constraints and just move forward. Is that ok?

11:17] Nebadon Izumi: to come to the website on their own

11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and go ok

11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: could call it the testing revision....

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: i know what is supported

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and what is not

11:18] Chris D is Offline

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: without having to ask for help

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: using fancy terms

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and wierd names

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: does not help that

11:18] sim core: Well, I saw progression, and I use the bleeding edge

11:18] Fly Man: OpenSim Omage Release

11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: supported +1. If it doesn't work out, we can change it

11:18] Diva Canto: "recommended"

11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Dive

11:18] Charles Krinke: "recommended" is fine with me.

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats nice too

11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: Diva*

11:18] Teravus Ousley: Instant OpenSimulator crystals..

11:18] Biskit Maker: recommended release works too

11:18] Chris D is Online

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: something that the non-technical person who never ran fancy linux named revisions

11:18] Fly Man: Yes, recommended

11:18] Charles Krinke: thank you, Diva for sorting through the chaos with one sentence.

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: can go ok

11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: well, recommended revision

11:18] Nebadon Izumi: this is the one i need

11:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: recommended versus head release?

11:19] Biskit Maker: 3 cheers for Diva

11:19] Richardus Raymaker: my crystal have a BSOD

11:19] Charles Krinke: Just "recommended"

11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I like it

11:19] Charles Krinke: I like it too

11:19] Nebadon Izumi: simple to the point

11:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool

11:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: and what is the name of the latest development versions?

11:19] Teravus Ousley: Necramended .. yah.

11:19] Charles Krinke: We will put this on the wiki and on osgrid.org and keep it up each week.

11:19] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: repremanded

11:19] Fly Man: release candidate

11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya I have been meaning to redo the downloads page to something better for osgrid.org

11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so this now gives me the reason to do so

11:20] Charles Krinke: Nebadon: Are we still going with r7879 for this week?

11:20] Fly Man: as after those, Charles makes a release

11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yes, this region is on that revision

11:20] Nebadon Izumi: it seems to be holding up really great so far

11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so i think anyone who wants to run a stable revision this week, 7879 is good

11:20] Teravus Ousley: it's maaagical.. rubbery

11:21] Fly Man: Charles, do you have an agenda for this

11:21] Blaksmith Rubble waves HI ...

11:21] Nebadon Izumi: though that said, i have heard ther might be breakage with regions beyond that

11:21] Nebadon Izumi: Diva can you comment on that?

11:21] Fly Man: because I would like to add something to it

11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: recommended revision! (not the s word :)

11:21] Nebadon Izumi: is there a clear line in the sand

11:21] Charles Krinke: Ok. "Recommended" r7879 for this week. We will review testing on the weekend and come up with a newer version if possible and stay with r7879 if newer ones are less stable

11:21] Charles Krinke: Yes. Bear with me, Fly-Man

11:21] Fly Man: k

11:21] Tommi Laukkanen: Is it possible to get an rss feed where each recommended svn version is published to?

11:21] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: for me 7885 is more stable after diva and melanie commits

11:22] Tommi Laukkanen: something easy to follow when to do update

11:22] Charles Krinke: Ok. Is it fair to say that no Lindens are here today? If there are Lindens here, they have the floor for any OGP notions.

11:22] Marlon Wulluf: hi everyone, my chat is a bit slow lol

11:22] Chris D is Online

11:22] Teravus Ousley: Homer, the weird thing.. is this all used to previously work just fine on *nix

11:22] Fly Man: Charles, no Lindens here

11:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: 7894 is very stable for me

11:22] Fly Man: Whump is on holiday

11:22] Dahlia Trimble is Online

11:22] Homer Horwitz: Ter: When did it stop?

11:22] Richardus Raymaker: 94 ? oh then i do some update

11:22] Charles Krinke: I will recommend that the next agenda item is HyperGrid as it fits with OGP (sorta).

11:22] Teravus Ousley: sometime after I tested it with melanie's elevator on *nix

11:22] Charles Krinke: Is that alright with you, Diva?

11:22] Diva Canto: yes.

11:23] Homer Horwitz: Which revision was that?

11:23] Teravus Ousley: probably a week after physical linksets was implemented.

11:23] Diva Canto: but I'm not sure I can handle 100 questions flying by at the same time... :)

11:23] Charles Krinke: I would recommend that Diva describe any of her HyperGrid or comms ideas relating to HyperGrid and entertain questions.

11:23] Alby Damden is Offline

11:23] Blaksmith Rubble: wow, I'm way back .. (but then again, I haven't been able to do much lately ) .. 7871 so far

11:23] Diva Canto: ok, HG -- no news. But Comms is under work

11:23] Fly Man: Diva, Q ?

11:23] Marlon Wulluf: *puts hand up for question*

11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: diva: by the way, I see various warnings in your new code

11:24] Diva Canto: Fly-Man-, please yo uhabve the word

11:24] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)

11:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Dahlia

11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: diva: specifically places where you compare UUID to null, which won't work

11:24] Nebadon Izumi: is there any comms breakage recerntly that will cut off comms to older regions Diva?

11:24] Fly Man: Diva, will this new comms be the OGS2 ?

11:24] Nebadon Izumi: bluewall asked me last night

11:24] Nebadon Izumi: and I was unsure

11:24] Charles Krinke: Hang on, Marlon.

11:24] Fly Man: or just a between OGS1 / OGS2

11:24] Diva Canto: hehehe, I really can't type 3 answers at the same time.

11:24] Homer Horwitz: UUID is a struct. Can't be null. Can be UUID.Zero, though.

11:24] Diva Canto: so: comms breakage: yes

11:24] Nebadon Izumi: no problem answer me last

11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ok

11:25] Nebadon Izumi: anything I should announce?

11:25] kefcom belgium: bbl

11:25] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102 lifts hand

11:25] Diva Canto: well, right now we've switched ChildUpdate messages to HTTP in 7891

11:25] Diva Canto: so if you have an older sim around you, it won't get those messages

11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ah so its only Neighbor Breaks? not to UGAIM?

11:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: hm

11:26] Diva Canto: correct, nebadon

11:26] Nebadon Izumi: nothing fatal if not updated?

11:26] Richardus Raymaker: that explain maby why IM not wokr good the last time.

11:26] Nebadon Izumi: just cant see each other anymore

11:26] Diva Canto: regions crossings may not work

11:26] Diva Canto: between recent and older

11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ok

11:26] Homer Horwitz: Does TP use them, too?

11:26] Nebadon Izumi: that will work it self out then

11:26] Diva Canto: Homer: no

11:26] Diva Canto: not yet :)

11:26] Homer Horwitz: ok

11:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: can that cause invisible neighboring regions and client crashes at sim borders?

11:26] Diva Canto: but I'm just about to add that

11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I presume you don't mind more support traffic then? I don't know how major that would be

11:27] Diva Canto: Snoopy: yes

11:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: I had that before

11:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: it was extreme

11:27] sim core: Is hypergrid going to allow directly seeing a neighbour on a different grid?

11:27] Richardus Raymaker: it seems my regions go only down by avatars or tp/crossing.

11:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I saw the same Rich

11:27] Diva Canto: @sim core: probably not

11:28] Nebadon Izumi: I would concur, i would infact say TP's are the worst problem we have

11:28] sim core: Thank-you

11:28] Nebadon Izumi: next to the login bandwidth spikes

11:28] Nebadon Izumi: the tps make sim go unavailable i think

11:28] Diva Canto: what I ghear is that TP problems seem to be worse with the Hippo

11:28] Fly Man raises hand again

11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i wonder why that is

11:28] Richardus Raymaker: i go with nebadons idea about tp\

11:28] Diva Canto: yes Flyman

11:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: yesterday I had a extreme memory leak - 700 MB in 20 mins

11:28] Fly Man: Did you already answer my Q ?

11:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: probably mono 2.3 caused that

11:29] Dahlia Trimble notices total frame time is 1500 ms, yet time dilation is still 1.0 and sim FPS is amazingly 30

11:29] Fly Man: as I didn't see anything about OGS1 / OGS2

11:29] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102 asks, how are HG links between old/new regions - work?

11:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: after a complete restart of the server it was ok again

11:29] Nebadon Izumi: last night i flew about 12 sims before the 13th sim i floated off to inifity

11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: astounding, ain't it :)

11:29] Nebadon Izumi: so border crossing is pretty sweet

11:29] Nebadon Izumi: login and tp are worst offenders

11:29] Diva Canto: Flyman: I can't interact very effectively in a crazy meeting like this one :) what was your question?

11:29] Dahlia Trimble: lies and damn lies ;)

11:29] Fly Man: My Question was

11:29] Fly Man: Will this comms stuff you're implementing be OGS2 ?

11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: lotsa unacked bytes as well, at least for me

11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder how real that number is

11:29] Fly Man: or a between stage in OGS1 and OGS2

11:30] Diva Canto: Fly-Man I don't think we're calling it OGS2

11:30] Chris D is Online

11:30] Diva Canto: but I guess we could, although the term OGS is questionable here

11:30] Diva Canto: (OpenGrid ...what?)

11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: inter-region stuff is arguably a different thing to grid comms

11:31] Chris D is Offline

11:31] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

11:31] Marlon Wulluf: raises hand

11:31] Diva Canto: yes Marlon

11:31] Marlon Wulluf: is the phantom linksets fixed yet? for when linksets are taken to inventory, then later rezzed

11:32] Diva Canto: I don't know thw answer to that question Marlon

11:32] Homer Horwitz: Do you have a mantis, Marlon?

11:32] Diva Canto: maybe Melanie does, but she's not here

11:32] Marlon Wulluf: I have, but I forgotton my username and password, lol, I have so many sites that have passwords, I forgot this one

11:33] Homer Horwitz: No problem, you can read it anonymously, too.

11:33] Homer Horwitz: Just not add notes

11:33] sim core: ( Or delete :-)

11:33] Homer Horwitz: Or that :)

11:33] Marlon Wulluf: can I post a mantis anonymously?

11:34] Richardus Raymaker: happy not..

11:34] Homer Horwitz: Don't think so. I wondered whether there is an existing mantis about it...

11:34] Dahlia Trimble: you can always make a new account

11:34] Homer Horwitz: Or that :)

11:34] Marlon Wulluf: I tried, but it refused, because the email address is already in use

11:34] Fly Man: Diva, how long will your "breaking" take ?

11:35] Biskit Maker: i'd first search and see if one already exists - then add a note if needed

11:35] Nebadon Izumi: heh, looks a bit laggy

11:35] Dahlia Trimble: then there is probably a password reset on there somewhere

11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: god yes

11:35] Nebadon Izumi: but damn, look how many people are here

11:35] Nebadon Izumi: this is awesome though

11:35] Diva Canto: Fly-Man: it is going to be a long process of transferring the interregion comms to the new method

11:35] Nebadon Izumi: lag or not, impressive stuff

11:35] Teravus Ousley: sorry, that was me testing physics load

11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: ah :)

11:35] Nebadon Izumi: even more impressive

11:35] Kevin Paisley did his part to reduce lag by removing my prim genitals from my nose attachment area :)

11:35] Fly Man: Diva, so say 1 month to get it all working ?

11:36] Diva Canto: if I didn't have travel, I'd say yes. But I have some travel in January, so I don't know

11:36] Diva Canto: but the plan is to transfer one comm at a time

11:36] Diva Canto: in between things should be stable

11:36] Fly Man: k

11:37] Richardus Raymaker: the old comms are tcp or udp ?

11:37] Diva Canto: .NET Remoting, over tcp

11:37] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: will hg links work between old/new?

11:38] Nebadon Izumi: heh

11:38] Fly Man: Someone HAD to test ;)

11:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

11:38] Diva Canto: in priciple they are euqally affected. It's the same comms, really. In practice the ChildAgents message doesn't matter for the HG

11:38] Dahlia Trimble: lol

11:38] Blaksmith Rubble: LOL

11:39] Nebadon Izumi: this is great stuff

11:39] Fly Man: K, Charles ?

11:39] Nebadon Izumi: I have a sim that is open for building to everyone (OKC) Sui, we have a few residents living there

11:39] Blaksmith Rubble whispers ... I'm halfway just lurking today .... still bouncing between RL work and here

11:39] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I ask, because I wonder if it is safe to test head on a local grid while maintining compatible regions in OSgrid

11:39] Nebadon Izumi: the up time has been amazing last 2 weeks

11:39] Nebadon Izumi: we hit 96 hours

11:40] Homer Horwitz: Must be the holidays :P

11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and thats open building with many people coming and going

11:40] Homer Horwitz: Noone here?

11:40] sim core: :-J

11:40] Homer Horwitz: Ah

11:40] Nebadon Izumi: just like this sim

11:40] Diva Canto: TUX: when things are not on the same version after I commit changes to Comms, expect breakages :)

11:40] Nebadon Izumi: over 10000 prims

11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and 800 scripts

11:40] Homer Horwitz: 24 people?

11:40] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: ok, thanks

11:40] Teravus Ousley: haha, the visitorListRecorder is high on the script time there :)

11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: eh homer?

11:41] Homer Horwitz: Hm?

11:41] Dahlia Trimble: usually linden sims that have many avatars dont have so many prims or scripts

11:41] Teravus Ousley: 981 lines per second :)

11:41] Nebadon Izumi: most of the sims i have spent my time on in SL

11:41] Nebadon Izumi: hover around 6000-10000 scripts

11:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have a question concerning 64 bit servers

11:41] sim core: Yes, I must say great job on the developer's part!

11:42] Dahlia Trimble: not the welcome areas like Ahern

11:42] Fly Man: I was hoping Charles would finish his Agenda ;)

11:42] Teravus Ousley: 981 lines per second is quite an active script :)

11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: will they be officially supported in the future?

11:42] Nebadon Izumi: yes

11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

11:42] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: anyone interested in checking out the Greenie's in OpenSim?

11:42] Nebadon Izumi: they already are

11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, script lines per second is in the stats somewhere? Or is that top scripts?

11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I found a 64 bit bug

11:42] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is now 100% 64 bit compatible i thought

11:42] Dahlia Trimble: I want to see Greenies :)

11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ok log all bugs at mantis for sure

11:42] Snoopy Pfeffer: concerning sales settings

11:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: I did

11:43] Nebadon Izumi: great

11:43] Teravus Ousley: nebadon, you might want to tone that sensor down a bit.. :)

11:43] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I'll post a link - it's really interesting to see

11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ok well thats what i heard on the dev channel and in the osgrid channel

11:43] Gaspar.Roux http://75.101.220.60:8002: I saw the alha tests, big fun.

11:43] Gaspar.Roux http://75.101.220.60:8002: alpha

11:43] Charles Krinke: Ok. In general, the developers should have priority for any subjects. Is there anything the developers need from the testers they are not getting?

11:43] Nebadon Izumi: im not saying it will be perfect

11:43] Tommi Laukkanen: Snoopy if you build to x86 platform your sim runs on 32 bit mode even on 64 bit os.. tested this on my vista 64 bits

11:43] Nebadon Izumi: all im saying is you should not have to recompile stuff

11:43] Nebadon Izumi: for 64 bit

11:43] Nebadon Izumi: not that its perfect

11:44] Tommi Laukkanen: nebadon: native libraries dont work

11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: oh wow yes, what is that visitor list recorder doing, busy waiting?

11:44] Fly Man: I would love to have more people testing OpenSim. Search

11:44] Tommi Laukkanen: they are build for 32 bit.. like the jpeg lib

11:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that works well - I dont need to compile ODE additionally anymore

11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i heard jpeg was 64 bit

11:44] Fly Man: to see if there are still some flying dragons

11:44] Nebadon Izumi: this is recent

11:44] Fly Man: or if we can make a official release

11:44] Nebadon Izumi: not always

11:44] Teravus Ousley: hard to say Justincc.. need to see the source.. but I expect a fast sensor or something :)

11:44] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Rezzable alpha grid: http://tr.im/alphagrid

11:44] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: there ya go

11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: ah :)

11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but really, anyone has any bugs on 64 bit

11:45] Richardus Raymaker: i think the develpers wants more time to develop.

11:45] Nebadon Izumi: please mantis them so we know

11:45] Blaksmith Rubble: speaking of search, my lands are not showing in "places" .. with or without the "advertise" checkboxked

11:45] Blaksmith Rubble: boxed*

11:45] Charles Krinke: This meeting is our main way for the developers to interact with those who are testing OpenSim. Lets try to cater to the developers until they have no more questions or statements, please.

11:45] Nebadon Izumi: getting to be 64 bit compatible is imporant

11:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: I only have on 64 bit bug - the rest works great!

11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: Actually I'd like more time to eat and contemplate existence

11:45] sim core: Lol

11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and if you can document 64 bit stuff that would be great too

11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the wiki or forums

11:45] Nebadon Izumi: anyone who has experience, sharing it would be great

11:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: the bug is that left click actions and the kind of buy change after a region restart

11:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: that makes part of my shop unusable at the moment :(

11:46] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: in debian lenny 64 object for sale works fine

11:46] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: have some hangs in previous trunk

11:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: because it switches to "sit on object" and "buy original"

11:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

11:46] Diva Canto: any more questions on comms, or was I brilliantly clear? :-)

11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Tux the rezzable grid requires a SL group membership?

11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: file a mantis and some kind soul may take a look :)

11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: probably isn't an enormously hard bug to fix

11:47] Fly Man will wait for the others to have Q at the end of the meeting

11:47] Charles Krinke: Lets get confirmation for problems from others and work our Mantis. This is not the place to go through all the differences in results. This is the place to describe at a "Higher" level what we are doing for the next week.

11:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: I did that already #2936

11:47] Diva Canto: this week I'm going to try to improve TPs and region crossing using the new HTTP-based ChildUPdate message

11:47] Nebadon Izumi: you can always join us in #osgrid on irc.freenode.net anytime to discuss mantis issues

11:48] Nebadon Izumi: infact i suggest before you contact the #opensim-dev team

11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, 64 bit eh?

11:48] Nebadon Izumi: you visit us at #osgrid 1st

11:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

11:48] Diva Canto: you know what that means: while *trying* to improve, things may break, until I finally get it to work well :-)

11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and if we recommend you visit -dev

11:48] Nebadon Izumi: then proceed there

11:48] Fly Man: This week, I hope to have more feedback from OpenSim.Search

11:48] Dahlia Trimble: why not #opensim?

11:48] Nebadon Izumi: either or

11:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: just on 64 bit servers

11:48] Fly Man: and to have OpenProfile working for Plaza testing

11:48] Nebadon Izumi: im just saying #osgrid is available

11:48] Nebadon Izumi: any opensim topic is fair game

11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: you should add the db that you're using - could be crucial

11:48] Charles Krinke: Do we need a more formal 64bit testing team?

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] HERCULES Strength Tester: WEAR a copy of the hammer,STAND on the white pad and CLICK the strike pad!

11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: more testing always helps

11:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok but it can be reproduced easily - you can test that on my sims if you likr

11:49] Nebadon Izumi: id prefer people bother me there than in #opensim-dev

11:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: like*

11:49] Charles Krinke: Anything else from the developers?

11:49] Fly Man: Yes

11:50] Blaksmith Rubble: has anyone looked at #2858 ? .. regarding a sim coming on-line while an AV is on a neighbor region, the region that just came up does not show to the AV until they re-log

11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: well, unfortunately there are other more important concerns crowding me out at the moment

11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes true :)

11:50] Fly Man: An official point of view on the Mono versions that developers use / testers use

11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy: but the db being used may well be an important factor

11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I meant important to me - not to everybody :)

11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I will reproduce an example that is not too big

11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yea rememeber when you file your mantis, be as specific about your setup as possible

11:51] Nebadon Izumi: the developers can not see into your configuration

11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I use mono 1.9.1 and will remain doing so until Ubuntu upgrades or somebody pays me lotsa moolah

11:51] Fly Man: Neb, I meant more:

11:51] Homer Horwitz: I use 2.0.1

11:51] Diva Canto: gotta go. bye everyone

11:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

11:51] Charles Krinke: I believe that most developers and testers are using or headed towards mono-2.0.1 at a minimum. Older mono, like 1.9 will start fading in populatiry.

11:51] Fly Man: "What version is a tester using, how is it configured"

11:51] Nebadon Izumi: so if a bug seems specific to some issue, include any OpenSim.ini settings that relate to the issue

11:51] Biskit Maker: bye Diva

11:51] Dahlia Trimble: Fly man we dont really have an official recommendation for mono version, but we prefer to develop for the versions that are widely available

11:51] sim core: Bye diva :-)

11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: snoppy: honestly, just the db you're using would be good - whether it's mysql, sqlite or mssql

11:51] Charles Krinke: bye, Diva.

11:51] Homer Horwitz: Bye Diva :)

11:51] Blaksmith Rubble: bye Diva

11:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Dive

11:51] Nebadon Izumi: be specific about mono revision your using

11:51] Nebadon Izumi: the kernel

11:51] Richardus Raymaker: mono 20081211

11:51] Fly Man: Dahlia, So I noticed ;)

11:51] Nebadon Izumi: be very very specific in your mantis filing

11:51] Dahlia Trimble: bye diva :)

11:51] Fly Man: 2 days ao

11:52] Biskit Maker: should the mono version be something that goes in with the 'recommended' svn?

11:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: under ubuntu I could not use mono 2.x reliably, only 2.3!

11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we should try to provide enough information so that others can recreate the same scenario

11:52] Fly Man: and a suggestion to the Developers:

11:52] Dahlia Trimble: if you cant run opensim on any mono less than 2.3, then there is a problem

11:52] Fly Man: Please make use of the Search, we have Events now

11:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes true Dahlia

11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok FLyman

11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: with other versions opensim starts up and does nothing

11:53] Nebadon Izumi: can you talk about the Ubuntu issue

11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so everyone here is aware

11:53] Dahlia Trimble: I use 1.9.1 with no problems

11:53] Fly Man: Yes, that is what I was waiting for

11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: or script compilations fail all the time

11:53] Charles Krinke: I am running mono-2.0.1 on some sims and mono-20081219 on other sims and I dont see a mono problem. But, others are reporting mono problems.

11:53] Nebadon Izumi: go for it

11:53] Fly Man: The latest release of Mono 2.0.1 (Tarballed) from the packaged of Ubuntu is corrupt

11:53] sim core: I am on mac, works great

11:53] Fly Man: it doesn't have large heap installed

11:53] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i use mono 2.0.1 in ubuntu with not problems

11:53] Nebadon Izumi: this is important what Fly Man is saying

11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Fly Man

11:53] Dahlia Trimble: I also use the 2.0.1 tarball, with no problems

11:54] Fly Man: thus making it crash

11:54] Homer Horwitz: 2.0.1 from Debian experimental

11:54] Marlon Wulluf: sorry for the change of subject, quick question,,,,,,I have a boxed build to give away, but WP freebie section has rezzing disabled, where can I rezz the box?

11:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: even with large heap 2.x did not work for me, except 2.3

11:54] Nebadon Izumi: this is only for the Repo version of Ubuntu mono 2.0.1?

11:54] Nebadon Izumi: there is known issues

11:54] Charles Krinke: Another plaza freebie area would be best, Marlon.

11:54] Dahlia Trimble: http://ftp.novell.com/pub/mono/sources/mono/mono-2.0.1.tar.bz2

11:54] Nebadon Izumi: you will have to compile it yourself

11:54] Fly Man: At this moment, the Ubuntu people are looking into this issue

11:54] Marlon Wulluf: ok, thanks

11:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: compilations fail from time to time!

11:54] Nebadon Izumi: Ubuntu team confirmed the problem

11:54] Fly Man: and hope to have a new package ready before Jaunty releases

11:55] Blaksmith Rubble: RE: Search ... when I set up ossearch a week or tow back, Neb verified that I was in the database, but I can't do a search for any of my lands... using search from my lands works fine when searching for other places...

11:55] Charles Krinke: along with --with-tls=pthread --wity-large-heap=yes with the ./configure step.

11:55] Orion Hax: i run 2.0.1 from source and it works fine

11:55] Fly Man: Jauntu => 8.10 => 9.04

11:55] Dahlia Trimble: I dont use either of those charles

11:55] Nebadon Izumi: if you compile it yourself though you are ok

11:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: Orion: do you use ubuntu?

11:55] Fly Man: Jaunty for Ubuntu will be releasing in March/April 2009

11:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: I use 8.04 and 8.10

11:55] Simulator Version v0.4b shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.1.7879 (OS Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) Kernel \r on an \) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False on Mono 2.3a

11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: If you're going to start throwing switches on a compile you need to know what you're doing

11:55] Fly Man: and they hope to have a Large heap package up then

11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: or be prepared to go back and forth when things don't quite work right

11:55] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i use 8.04 server and compile myself 2.02

11:56] Nebadon Izumi: the swithes we recommend right now

11:56] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: 2.0.1

11:56] Nebadon Izumi: have been tested on atleast a dozen systems

11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i use mono daily directory and use the lines nebdon posted on forum

11:56] Nebadon Izumi: of various loads

11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and all perform about the same

11:56] Orion Hax: 8.04 and 8.10

11:56] Fly Man: So, at this moment the 1.9.1 version for Ubuntu works

11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i hopoe the new ubuntu have the old kde :)

11:56] Fly Man: and if you want to have a good standard build

11:56] Dahlia Trimble: If we develop for custom mono installations we risk not being able to run on many systems

11:56] Fly Man: be sure to read on the OSgrid forums

11:57] Fly Man: the way to compile it for Debian / Ubuntu

11:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Hiro's and Nebadon's installation instructions for mono 2.3 on orgrid.org are very good

11:57] Nebadon Izumi: right now nothing we do should break any compatibility with any mono apps

11:57] Richardus Raymaker: only the daily works good with compile

11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but if you do find a breka

11:57] Nebadon Izumi: pleas report it to me

11:57] Nebadon Izumi: or Fly Man

11:57] Blaksmith Rubble: the GC stuff, yes, that worked great for me

11:57] Meadhbh Cookies: hola amig{o|a}s

11:57] Dahlia Trimble: you do a regression test with all other mono apps?

11:57] Meadhbh Cookies: anyone seen whump or zha?

11:57] Fly Man: Please report only Debian related Mono issues to me

11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hello meadhbh

11:57] Nebadon Izumi: no, but the changes we do dont efect how mono operates

11:57] Nebadon Izumi: just how it handles ram

11:57] Fly Man: Debian / Ubuntu

11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and GC

11:57] Teravus Ousley: no.. thought they were on holiday :)

11:57] Charles Krinke: not today, Meadhbh

11:57] Dahlia Trimble: you dont know that

11:58] Meadhbh Cookies: yup. that's what i thought too.

11:58] Dahlia Trimble: Hi Meadhbh :)

11:58] Fly Man: Zha and Whump Linden are both on Holiday

11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but again, my goal is to make opensim run better

11:58] Nebadon Izumi: if it breaks your apps

11:58] Fly Man: they will return after the 3rd of Januari

11:58] Nebadon Izumi: dont use our optimizations

11:58] Charles Krinke: Dahlia. Do you believe we are being too aggressive with these mono recommendations?

11:58] Nebadon Izumi: nothing we do is required

11:58] Meadhbh Cookies: i'll just stand in the corner and try very hard to represent linden's interests

11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and never will be

11:58] Nebadon Izumi: so use it or dont use it

11:58] Meadhbh Cookies: btw... Meadhbh Cookies == Infinity Linden

11:58] Fly Man: But for all the Ubuntu ppl

11:58] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

11:58] Teravus Ousley: :)

11:59] Fly Man: Please use 1.9.1

11:59] Dahlia Trimble: Charles, I dont believe that your optimizations are providing usable test data for most oepnsim users

11:59] Snoopy Pfeffer: good luck Meadhbh :)

11:59] Nebadon Izumi: its your own choice, i wont recommend anything that i would think would isolate a machine to only be able to run OpenSim though

11:59] Meadhbh Cookies: lol

11:59] Fly Man: when that fails, go to the SVN trunk version of 2.3

11:59] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Hi Infinity

11:59] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i wrote guide for ubuntu e mono: http://www.opensimulator.it/pg/blog/carlos/read/552/come-aggiornare-mono-alla-versione-20-per-opensim

11:59] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone has proof we are doing that we will certainly change how we operate

11:59] Charles Krinke: We are trying to use SDague's recommendation of mono-2.0.1. *Some* folks are having additional problems with mono and for those, we are recommending the large heap if they cannot get the stock mono working in their setup.

11:59] Dahlia Trimble: but we dont seem to have a sturctured testing probram in place anyway

11:59] Dahlia Trimble: *program

11:59] Fly Man: AND

11:59] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know there's no 1.9.1 for ubuntu. thats why i use the daily. that one compiles and your almost done

11:59] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles that is a good summary

11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yea, with this wide variety of platforms, and this early on

11:59] Fly Man: And this is important for ALL to hear

11:59] Teravus Ousley: unit tests ftw! ;)

11:59] Nebadon Izumi: thats pretty hard to achieve

11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: well, to be honest almost all the bugs are going to be ours rather than down to Mono

12:00] Nebadon Izumi: without being in a lab

12:00] Fly Man: so please don't interrupt me ;)

12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol

12:00] Fly Man: Some ppl use Linux

12:00] sim core: :-J

12:00] Fly Man: those ppl I want to ask

12:00] Homer Horwitz: No chance Fly Man

12:00] Fly Man: run your region server with this:

12:00] Fly Man: mono --profile

12:00] Fly Man: This will take some more time to get your region up

12:00] Fly Man: but it will also run profiling on your system

12:01] Fly Man: when your system crashes

12:01] Fly Man: or when your system stops

12:01] Richardus Raymaker: did you add that to the forum page about nebadons mono compile ?

12:01] Fly Man: it will give out the exact amount of memory / calls to functions that it did

12:01] Homer Horwitz: Have to hop out. Bye...

12:01] Fly Man: Please make a file out of it

12:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Homer

12:01] Homer Horwitz waves and poofs.

12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok Homer, thanks for coming man

12:01] Fly Man: and send it to Nebadon

12:01] sim core: Bye homer

12:01] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon

12:01] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: bye Homer

12:01] Nebadon Izumi: what a great meeting today

12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm going to see if I can locate that script. I have a nice red arrow pointing to it

12:02] Nebadon Izumi: this is what its all about

12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

12:02] Dahlia Trimble: Bye Homer

12:02] Fly Man: This way we can see the differences between Mono versions

12:02] Nebadon Izumi: regardless of how optimzied it is, this i great stuff

12:02] Fly Man: and this also shows which functions are slowing us down

12:02] Fly Man: so we, the developers, can have a look at those functions

12:02] Nebadon Izumi: the fact we can make it through a meeting with this kind of abuse, is just awesome

12:02] Charles Krinke: Well, I respect Dahlia as well as SDague and get the impression we may be getting too aggressive about mono compilation.

12:02] Fly Man: to make them more memory reliant and less laggy

12:02] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Fly Man - is it ok to do that on sparse regions?

12:02] Teravus Ousley loads his copy of jetBrains Dot trace :)

12:02] Fly Man: Charles, this is not a compilation it

12:03] Fly Man: each version of Mono has it installed

12:03] Nebadon Izumi: sure, the switches are totally optional for sure

12:03] Fly Man: and it would be good to see if there are BIG differences between the older and newer Mono's

12:03] Nebadon Izumi: not at all required

12:03] Dahlia Trimble: Charles, I dont want to interfere with your goals for WP, but I dont belive it supports opensim development as well when you use custom configurations

12:03] Charles Krinke: Dahlia. I tend to agree with you.

12:03] sim core nods

12:03] Nebadon Izumi: well I handed this server back to charles

12:04] Nebadon Izumi: so thats up to him at this point

12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i recommended we reload this server

12:04] Charles Krinke: I'm trying to find the middle ground with all the participants and it is getting more difficult.

12:04] Nebadon Izumi: because its been so experimented with

12:04] Fly Man: As said, this is an OPTIONAL thing

12:04] Fly Man: but you would help us with it :)

12:04] Teravus Ousley: you might want to check that visitor monitor script also.. it's registering 'high' on the top scripts list.. astonomically high :)

12:04] Blaksmith Rubble: I don't crash often, but I can definately toss that option in

12:04] Nebadon Izumi: Id like to get on newer version of Fedora or something little more up to date

12:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Teravus it caused crashes on my regions

12:04] Dahlia Trimble: well pushing the envelope can be useful information also :)

12:05] Fly Man: Blaksmith, even when you shutdown the service

12:05] Nebadon Izumi: not to mention blow out all the past experimenting we have done

12:05] Fly Man: it will show you exactly what it's been doing

12:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: the visitor monitor causes instabilities

12:05] Fly Man: and what functions are "fast" and "slow"

12:05] Blaksmith Rubble: I do get a few shut-down errors.. so ok

12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and Im all for running on stock mono

12:05] Nebadon Izumi: whatever is best

12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i was tired of rebooting 35 times a day

12:05] Nebadon Izumi: so i tried to make things better

12:05] Nebadon Izumi: which i did

12:06] sim core: ( Might be best to change server, maybe )

12:06] Charles Krinke: I respect your work, Nebadon.

12:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: I had a region that crashed once a day with the visitor monitor - without it runs 24 hours without problems

12:06] Nebadon Izumi: but really, i do want whats best for the project

12:06] Dahlia Trimble: not a problem Nebadon, it depends on the goals for WP

12:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: once an hour*

12:06] Blaksmith Rubble: I'll toss it on my biggest region ...

12:06] Nebadon Izumi: most of the problems were pre 2.0.1 on this box

12:06] Nebadon Izumi: things really did stablize quite a bit going from 1.9.1 to 2.0.1 here

12:06] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: is that just basicaly a sensor/timer?

12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think we will see much differnce reverting to a stock 2.0.1

12:06] Nebadon Izumi: it will likely run about the same

12:07] Nebadon Izumi: but use a hair more ram

12:07] Charles Krinke: I would tend to agree

12:07] Dahlia Trimble: if the goals are to test opensim in a production environment and provide development feedback, then it should use widely used confifurations

12:07] Teravus Ousley: probably TuX.. but it's registering as executing 950 lines of code per second :)

12:07] Blaksmith Rubble: restarting maze with the flag now... will have to incorporate that into my update script though hehe

12:07] Nebadon Izumi: sure i agree

12:07] Dahlia Trimble: if the goal is uptime and stability for WP, then do what you need

12:07] Nebadon Izumi: in the past the goal was to stabilze this region

12:07] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..

12:07] Nebadon Izumi: nothing opensim or mono stock was working

12:08] Nebadon Izumi: so i forged ahead with some new things

12:08] Nebadon Izumi: and it worked

12:08] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

12:08] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I have something similar, I'll check it when I login to OSgrid too

12:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: certain rules based on experiences anyway need to exist

12:08] Nebadon Izumi: so its obvious we were basing our goals

12:08] Nebadon Izumi: on a broken version of mono at that point

12:08] Fly Man: And Charles, to answer 1 Question you asked on the Dev list

12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but now we are beyond that

12:08] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

12:08] Nebadon Izumi: if our focus is 2.0.1 consider me onboard

12:08] Nebadon Izumi: im all for it

12:09] Fly Man: Yes, Groups will be available

12:09] Nebadon Izumi: at the time the focus was 1.9.1

12:09] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think we yet have a core consensus on which version to target,

12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt sign off on that

12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i wont agree to 1.9.1

12:09] Nebadon Izumi: but 2.0.1 has the greenlight from me

12:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: 2.x is great, but it is not mature yet

12:09] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

12:10] Richardus Raymaker: i dont have much problems with 2.x (2008211)

12:10] Charles Krinke: Based on talking with SDague and others, 2.0.1 seems better then 1.9 or 1.9.1 mono.

12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes 1.9.1 was always considered a beta release

12:10] Nebadon Izumi: mono 2.0

12:10] Nebadon Izumi: 2.0.1 is the 1st official release of mono

12:10] Richardus Raymaker: sorry 20081211

12:10] Nebadon Izumi: we need to focus on it

12:10] Teravus Ousley needs to get back to work.. so take care.. see you in the IRC :)

12:10] Nebadon Izumi: later Ter thanks for coming

12:10] Dahlia Trimble: I would suggest that one target may be that which is widely available in rental server installations

12:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Teravus

12:10] Fly Man: And 1 other thing:

12:10] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: see ya Teravus

12:11] Dahlia Trimble: bye Ter :)

12:11] Richardus Raymaker: bye teravus

12:11] Nebadon Izumi: sure but again 1.9.1 is an incomplete bete version

12:11] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: ciao teravus

12:11] Fly Man: Please find a large place for rhe Meetings ;)

12:11] Meadhbh Cookies: cheers, T

12:11] Nebadon Izumi: 2.0.1 is the official release

12:11] Charles Krinke: I need to get back to work, too. This has been an *interesting* meeting.

12:11] Teravus Ousley is Offline

12:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: I guess that the final mono 2.3 will be the first really good mono

12:11] Nebadon Izumi: why are we going to base our future on a incomplete beta release

12:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Charles

12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt make sense to me

12:11] Charles Krinke: I can see we have a ways to go to get our testing environment more consistent.

12:11] Charles Krinke: bye

12:11] Fly Man: Infinite, can I ask you a Q ?

12:11] Charles Krinke is Offline

12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: you can ask

12:12] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: I would, maybe, focus on the mono rev. in the recomended versions

12:12] Dahlia Trimble: I should go too... bye all, thanks for the discussion :)

12:12] Nebadon Izumi: and im not in any rush Dahlia

12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: i may not be able to answer til the end of the month

12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i think we should take our time

12:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Dahla

12:12] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia

12:12] Fly Man: What is your role at Linden Labs ?

12:12] Nebadon Izumi: we should not be forcing anything on anyone

12:12] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: Bye Dahlia

12:12] Biskit Maker: tomorrow?

12:12] Biskit Maker: ;)

12:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: lol... no comment

12:12] Dahlia Trimble is Offline

12:12] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..

12:12] Blaksmith Rubble: well, i'm very impressed about the meeting today ... I didn't crash once! .. usually, the client crashes out on me at least 2x

12:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea what a great meeting

12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: technically i'm a software architect

12:12] Fly Man: Good :)

12:12] Meadhbh Cookies: hired to work on OGP

12:12] Richardus Raymaker: maby its simpler to say what version not to use.

12:12] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: yes very good

12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool$

12:13] Fly Man: So, you're like Whump

12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: when will it be possibel to use hypergrid with the main sl grid? :)

12:13] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: good news about OGP!!

12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe

12:13] Meadhbh Cookies: but... after the top-to-bottom review, i've been tasked with a number of other items

12:13] Meadhbh Cookies: mostly stability and security

12:14] Meadhbh Cookies: and... in theory... we're going to make a clear... positive statement about Open Interop and SL at the end of the month

12:14] Meadhbh Cookies: er

12:14] Meadhbh Cookies: next month

12:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool

12:14] Fly Man: Good

12:14] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: ++

12:14] Richardus Raymaker: nice. cool.

12:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think it is important also for LL to open up to grow virtual worlds even further

12:15] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: will work proceed on it at a good pace?

12:15] Meadhbh Cookies: you and me both, Snoopy

12:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe

12:15] Richardus Raymaker: but we can wait, until thats ask why inventory from sl dont work here. after ogp teleport :O

12:15] Fly Man: Welcome to the Office Hours then Infinite :)

12:16] Meadhbh Cookies: thx. actually... i think whump's going to be here a lot more often than me

12:16] Fly Man: And I hope to see you again next week ;)

12:16] Richardus Raymaker: but it makes things easyer if i can go fro my home here to sl.

12:16] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..

12:16] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: seems that a lot was accomplished in a fairly short time when OGP beta was announced

12:16] Meadhbh Cookies: i'm just here to make sure any linden directed questions get answered

12:16] Meadhbh Cookies: while whump's on vacation

12:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes sl can become a main hub in the open virtual world

12:16] Fly Man: Oo, I thought Zero was here for a moment

12:16] Fly Man: or Babbage

12:16] Fly Man: but I might have seen ghosts then

12:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: growing by opening borders :)

12:16] Kevin Paisley: wasnt any office hours today for zero i dun think

12:17] Fly Man: But here's a present :D

12:17] Fly Man: Then you will look a bit more "Non-newbie"

12:17] Meadhbh Cookies: umm...

12:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

12:17] Fly Man: Or do you need a female one ;p ?

12:17] Meadhbh Cookies is a girl

12:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: also visit my shop at Samsara hehe

12:18] sim core: Hehe

12:18] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: haa

12:18] Fly Man: No Problem there ;)

12:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks

12:18] Fly Man: I have both :p

12:18] Meadhbh Cookies: thx

12:18] Nebadon Izumi: oh

12:18] Nebadon Izumi: Fly Man

12:18] Meadhbh Cookies: i dunno though... a bit of nostalgia being all ruthified

12:18] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: ok

12:18] Fly Man: And Snoopy will get your some nice clothes ;)

12:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: happy new year

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: I instaleld the OpenSIM wi search stuff

12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: i go to my grid

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and it doesnt work right

12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: :))

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: i registed an event

12:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Carlos

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and it shows in world

12:19] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: on Jan 1

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: but look at it

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: the info is wrong

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and

12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: visit me on cyberlandia

12:19] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: see ya Carlos

12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: :))

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: i only get 1 parcel to choose from

12:19] Carlos.Roundel http://grid.cyberlandia.net:8002: ciao

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: to register an event

12:19] Fly Man: Nebadon, then I think you need to get the Plaza Builder out

12:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol I always forgot :)

12:19] Fly Man: as the terrain is on his name ;)

12:19] Nebadon Izumi: damn

12:20] Nebadon Izumi: who offered friend

12:20] Nebadon Izumi: i accidfently cancled

12:20] Kevin Paisley: had someone offer friendship to me yesterday and it said that "Kevin Paisley" was offering friendship :P

12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

12:20] Nebadon Izumi: who is that?

12:20] Nebadon Izumi: it saysim im offering myself friendship

12:20] Meadhbh Cookies: yup. i just got that too

12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: strange

12:20] Fly Man: But Snoopy, take care of Infinite ;)

12:20] Blaksmith Rubble: lol

12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: it should be me

12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online

12:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I will

12:20] Fly Man: She will love your clothing shop

12:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh ok it was you

12:20] Nebadon Izumi: but wierd

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: it said "Nebadon Izumi is offering you friendship"

12:21] Fly Man: Welcome aboard Infinite :)

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: but Flyman

12:21] Meadhbh Cookies: hmm... wait... was the meeting at 11 or at Noon?

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: go to http://osgrid.org

12:21] Fly Man: Nebadon, I will

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: log in with your account

12:21] Blaksmith Rubble: 11

12:21] Meadhbh Cookies: ugh

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: then click "Home"

12:21] sim core: 1900utc

12:21] Meadhbh Cookies: sorry about being late then

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: the sub menu wont show unless you click Home

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: its hidden for now

12:21] Snoopy Pfeffer: now you are in my friends list

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: so as not to draw to much attention

12:21] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..

12:21] Snoopy Pfeffer: btw

12:21] Nebadon Izumi: cool you are in mine now too

12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: there is also a bug with ppl from other grids

12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: you can friend them

12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: even ims work

12:22] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..

12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: but the next time you log in the server complains that your friend is unknown

12:22] Meadhbh Cookies: okay... i'm gonna trundle along and try to cram 8 weeks of work into the few remaining hours left in Q4

12:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: and when you delete that friend Hippo crashes

12:22] Meadhbh Cookies: happy hogmanay everyone

12:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks :)

12:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think hypergrid still needs some tests with friends

12:23] Fly Man: I think HG needs about everything tested ;)

12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes lol

12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: but it was cool to have a friend from another world lol

12:24] sim core: Hg needs viewable neighbours, I think

12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: only that user is unknown here

12:24] Snoopy Pfeffer: as soon as he logs out at least

12:25] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: heh, we need OGP friends too

12:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

12:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: but that would also mean cross world ims :)

12:25] Blaksmith Rubble: well, I think it's time to go vanish, and get back to RL work /blah/ ..

12:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: that would be cool

12:25] sim core: :-J

12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: we can try it

12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: when you accept

12:26] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: haa

12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks

12:26] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: very cool

12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: now we are friends over grid borders

12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

12:26] Blaksmith Rubble waves and poofs

12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: I can send you ims

12:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Blaksmith

12:27] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: g'bye Blacksmith

12:27] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: heh, frinds may work in OGP, never tried

12:27] sim core: Bye all :-)

12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: it cannot load your profile

12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: so I cannot send you an im

12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: strange

12:27] TUX.Hultcrantz_EXTERNAL http://74.237.137.28:8102: bye sim core

12:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: that did work some weeks before

12:28] Kevin Paisley: take care everyone :D was swe;;

12:28] Kevin Paisley: swell too

12:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Kevin