Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-31



[09:26] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.3.8849 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False

[09:48] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[09:48] Charles Krinke: Morning

[09:48] Nebadon Izumi: doh looks like were missing a cusion

[09:48] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its just me

[09:48] Charles Krinke: I think I just fubarred a cushion on the couch

[09:48] Nebadon Izumi: is there a cushion missing next to you?

[09:48] Nebadon Izumi: oh

[09:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol no worries

[09:49] Compile successful

[09:49] Charles Krinke: I was trying to sit and inadvertently clicked "take"

[09:49] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya

[09:49] Nebadon Izumi: cause your estate manager you can

[09:49] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[09:49] Charles Krinke: Guess that makes me a griefer, today

[09:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[09:49] Nebadon Izumi: ive done it on accident myself

[09:49] Nebadon Izumi: accidently took something in the sandbox once

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt mean to take

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt fix it

[09:50] Charles Krinke: Sorry about the wind patch last night, I didnt expect so much confusion

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: i felt bad

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: oh no worries

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: i just saw someone reported it

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: was trying to ping you

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: wasnt a big deal

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: they actually fixed it

[09:50] Charles Krinke: I thought I was playing it real cool and nurturing mcortez along

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: by disabling wind in opensim.ini

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: which i see diva has done in trunk

[09:50] Nebadon Izumi: it was nothing you or mcortez did

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: it was Jhurlimans libomb update

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: libomv

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: diva said she cant fix it until she speaks with him

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: so for now she disabled wind by default

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: until its resolved

[09:51] Charles Krinke: Well, it could argued that patches need more testing before commit. Sometimes I guess right, sometimes not.

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya it likely might have worked

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: then jhurlimans patch would have broken it

[09:51] Nebadon Izumi: inadvertinly

[09:52] Nebadon Izumi: so these things happen, not a big deal ultimatly

[09:52] Nebadon Izumi: its gonna break from time to time

[09:52] Charles Krinke: I tend to take the position that moving us along even at the risk of breakage is better then stagnation of patches.

[09:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[09:52] Nebadon Izumi: it was very minor

[09:52] Nebadon Izumi: really

[09:52] Charles Krinke: But, I also admit that as time goes on, this position needs to become more conservative.

[09:53] Bri Hasp is Online

[09:53] Charles Krinke: Anyway,... I came a little early so I could watch the graphs over my shoulder.

[09:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[09:53] Nebadon Izumi: i always get here a little early to evaluate the sims stability

[09:53] Nebadon Izumi: do some cleaning

[09:53] Charles Krinke: good point.

[09:53] Nebadon Izumi: feels pretty good today

[09:54] Mystical Brotherhood: that's nice system up there

[09:54] Bri Hasp is Offline

[09:54] Charles Krinke: I havent heard rom Adam other then to read his one or two posts on opensim-dev mailing list, by the way.

[09:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya me either

[09:54] Nebadon Izumi: bit disapointing no response

[09:54] Nebadon Izumi: but we'll see

[09:54] Nebadon Izumi: sure he is busy

[09:55] Charles Krinke: Morning, Mystical

[09:55] Richardus Raymaker: hello

[09:55] Mystical Brotherhood: Afternoon Charles

[09:55] Charles Krinke: Nebadon: if you or others need to evolve this plaza and remove or delete the treehouse or scriptwerks, I will not stand in the way

[09:55] Richardus Raymaker: someone some idea why i have problems with latest svn's to let it run fine

[09:55] Nebadon Izumi: k i thought about erasing scriptworks a few times

[09:55] Nebadon Izumi: but ive just trimmed it down a bit

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: some of his scripts were abit harsh at times

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: but i left what wasnt effecting the sim

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: we should probably rebuild it though

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: something more up to date

[09:56] Richardus Raymaker: again. i did today. its 8943

[09:56] Charles Krinke: Richardus, the wind and the libomv patch last night are a bit "worrisome" today

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: the treehouse is more landmark than anything

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[09:56] Richardus Raymaker: thats the problem 8810 works betetr then everything above

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: it is kinda ugly though

[09:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya richardus we'll have times where updating stops

[09:57] Charles Krinke: If possible, it might be nice if the treehouse ended up as an object in an inventory that I could put on a different sim, maybe

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: while dev breaks everything for a week or 2

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: then back to normal

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: especially whenever libomv is updated

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: expcet 2 weeks of breakage

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: easily

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty standard procedure at this point

[09:57] Charles Krinke: Richardus. Libomv is the former libsecondlife. All our packet handling goes through it and a different team maintains it

[09:58] BlueWall Slade is Online

[09:58] Richardus Raymaker: so back to 8810 ? or thes a new version thats ok ?

[09:58] Richardus Raymaker: hi charles

[09:58] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say

[09:58] Nebadon Izumi: ive not done much updating last few days

[09:59] Nebadon Izumi: i was focusing on getting oars

[09:59] Nebadon Izumi: of all the plazas and my own regions

[09:59] Richardus Raymaker: here double hard, i fixt for now my isp problem. but cant say it 100% ok. and the sttill have not fixt it

[09:59] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[10:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks

[10:00] BlueWall Slade: Hello

[10:00] Charles Krinke: Morning, Justin. I hope in the fall, we can figure out the time changes to avoid a double dance if possible.

[10:00] Ideia Boa: hej all

[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: i definatly like having the meetings at 11am

[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: this should work out pretty good i hope for everyone

[10:01] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, hopefully the confusion is over until Autumn, as Charles says

[10:01] Charles Krinke: Maybe change back to 1900UTC in concert with the UK instead o f the US, or something

[10:02] Richardus Raymaker: how late is that ?

[10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: we changed in concert with the uk this time

[10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: at the momnet it's 1900 British Summer Time here (which is 1800 UTC)

[10:02] Charles Krinke: Yeah, I was trying to get us used to working everything on UTC and ignore daylkylight savings time, but it is not goiong over very well.

[10:02] Richardus Raymaker: its her 20:00

[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya well i think we survived another flipping of the poles for now

[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:03] Ideia Boa: here 20:02

[10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it was triggered by my personal problem with actually getting to a meeting at 2000 BST

[10:03] Charles Krinke: yep, thats abou tit.

[10:04] Charles Krinke: Ok, normal agenda is 1) "recommended" for the week, 2) Things core developers need to say and ask, then 3) things testers and users need to say and ask

[10:05] Charles Krinke: We might wish to slip in a fourth item, whihc might be, any special announcements

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: oh justin something i wanted to mention to you

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i think the oar freezing

[10:05] Richardus Raymaker: it seems the linked copy phantom bug is back.. if you link say 3 prims and then copy it. on the mast set the child prims get phantom. unlink it and it ok

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: is if i start a save oar while its still meshing

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: then it freezes

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: have to wait 4-5 minutes

[10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: interesting

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: after startup

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: then its fine

[10:06] Richardus Raymaker: but, would be nice to know if there's a betetr version then 8810

[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: is it now possible to execute commands while things ar estill loading up (apart from scripts?)

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: meshing

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: for 1

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: not sure about anything else

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell when CPU drops to 0

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: meshing is done

[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: right, I didn't think that used to be possible before the console changes

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: only way to tell

[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: oh ok.... I thought meshing was done early on in startup though

[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: before, for instance, script loading

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: depends

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: on the complexity

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: 15000 prims

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: takes loong time to mesh

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: 100 prims takes seconds

[10:07] Charles Krinke: Justin. You might want to glance at the screens over my shoulder with memory usage now and then after the meeting. They are very interesting

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: i can provide you the wright plazas oar

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: its 310 meg

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: or teravus plaza at 475

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: if you need something heavy

[10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think I could even get that to load on my system. Those files are huge

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol ya

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: you have access to the box

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: feel free to kick a plaza when their empty

[10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thanks

[10:09] Charles Krinke: Question: If an oar is loaded on a different region, are the permission and owner bits staying the same?

[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ckrinke: I see there are 3 mono instances on this sytem, one in debug

[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: yes

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you stay on the same grid yes

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: if the user doesnt exist

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: it defaults to region owner

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i think

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: right justin?

[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: that's right

[10:09] Charles Krinke: Justin: Wright Plaza, Lbsa Plaza and Sandbox Plaza all run on this server

[10:10] BlueWall Slade: I think Sandbox Plaza is the one running with --debug

[10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm grappling with the creator issue in my head right now - it's actually very difficult to preserve that info within the architectyure

[10:11] Charles Krinke: I understand, Justin. It also ends up being a bit of political engineering

[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: indeed it does

[10:11] BlueWall Slade: hehe

[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: it's all terribly terrible complicated

[10:12] Charles Krinke: Certainly, we want to adhere to the dsires of various creators, but there are cases where all that is known is the creator UUID which might not be known on a given grid

[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. There are different ways in which to overcome this, but all are far from ideal

[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, transfer the region uuid as owner ?

[10:13] BlueWall Slade: that would end up like tar files w/just the uid on a foreign system

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: to some extent it is trying to work out which is the least evil and for which problems are likely to go away in the future

[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: ugh, i mean the master avatar of the region

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I'm looking at this issue because for iars I really want to preserve creator info, at least

[10:14] Charles Krinke: OSgrid has gone down the path of open source donations for many builds and scripts, which of course, side steps the issues that other grids face.

[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: It's an issue with oars as well but since there such big units it hasn't become such an issue yet, I think

[10:14] Charles Krinke: Lets hope the "Nathez": doesnt dock next door

[10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: the Nathez?

[10:15] Richardus Raymaker: right chrinke

[10:15] Charles Krinke: Natchez is a well-known SL build that ended up on OpenLife and created a scandal a month or so ago

[10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: Oh right

[10:16] Charles Krinke: Ok, anyway... "recommended" ??

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: at this point for recommended version i say stay put 8849 if you want really stable

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: for now

[10:17] Charles Krinke: 8849? 8939?

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: until were past this libomv

[10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: have there been issues after the libomv upgrade?

[10:17] Charles Krinke: ok, 8849 is fine with me for another week for a stable "recommended"

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: i think until thats settles theres not much point in making a release

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya wind is not working

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: it had to be disabled

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: diva says she cant fix it without speaking with jhurliman

[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, so that is a libomv problem rather than a general bug?

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: according to diva

[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ah right. I see she is speaking to him right now on #opensim-dev ;)

[10:18] Charles Krinke: the libomv and the wind arrived at the same time and the issues are mushed together

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: oh very cool

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i had not noticed that

[10:18] Richardus Raymaker: teleport problems is because bugs to ?

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: not sure but likely

[10:19] Richardus Raymaker: hmm.. ok. then i need to step more back

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say but there are a enough bugs floating at this point to say lets not release anything right now

SIM CRASH

[10:25] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[10:26] Ideia Boa: here we are again.... :-)

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: sim crashed

[10:26] Dreamer Chen: !

[10:26] BlueWall Slade is Online

[10:26] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[10:26] Charles Krinke is Offline

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: yay i got 1 shoe

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:27] Fly Man is Offline

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: still bald though

[10:27] BlueWall Slade: hehe

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: theres the other shoe

[10:27] BlueWall Slade: I see none

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: still no hair

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:27] Charles Krinke is Online

[10:27] BlueWall Slade: now one

[10:27] BlueWall Slade: hehe

[10:27] Programmer Mohr: so much for drinking and flying...

[10:28] Charles Krinke: Whoa

[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: wb Mr Krinke

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: yahooo

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: hair

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: ok so

[10:29] Charles Krinke: Aside: I think we need to figure out how to get some non-plaza regions with significant traffic to gain more data on the memory leak/freeze issue.

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: where were we

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i hadnt restarted teh plaza prior to the meeting

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: it was running for a while

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: before meeting started

[10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I was actually just about to ask what the situation is with Stefan's 0.6.4 release candidate branch

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt that lead to the early demise

[10:30] Tiffany Sicling: Dradis is using over 800MB now, and it's been up for 2 hours

[10:30] Charles Krinke: recent reliability?

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: some of my own regions were running for 8 days

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: before i restarted them yeterday

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: but they dont see many visitors

[10:31] BlueWall Slade: anything around lbsa takes abeating from child agents

[10:31] Charles Krinke: My current idea is for OSGrid to setup our own version of "Mystery Science Theatre 3000" with old B-Movies on Friday or Saturday nights and encourage visitors on a non-plaza region

[10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I run some low traffic regions and they don't have a memory issue over time

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa plaza nieghbors are masochists :P

[10:31] Tiffany Sicling: most of my traffic is seen as child from lbsa and other surrounding regions

[10:31] BlueWall Slade: it is a good place to test things

[10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I personally think there is a genuine leak rather than a cache problem

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: being its the fall back region it by far sees the most traffic of any region on this grid

[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: but that's more a hunch than a known fact

[10:32] Charles Krinke: We need a "biiiig" drive-ini movie theatre to test video, traffic and vehicle physics, all at the same time

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: i could oar up OKC theatre

[10:32] Richardus Raymaker: get a scrapheap to then

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: for use on beefier hardware

[10:32] Tiffany Sicling: what's weird, is I have another region that doesn't get much traffic at all, was up for a day, was taking 1.2GB of RAM... with less than 30 prims on it.

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: my windows regions

[10:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.3.8849 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: dont leak memory at all

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: Tiffany: that is very curious

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: even my 12000 prim 1050 script region

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt leak a single bit of ram

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ever

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: but the plaza regions

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: interesting. Would it be possible to run one of the leaking regions on windows rather than linux and see if that makes a difference?

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: omg

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: forget it

[10:33] Tiffany Sicling: the region is down, but it's name is Loudenville, Bluewall runs it

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: its traffic justin

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: my linux regions would run for weeks too

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: but you start packing on people it leaks

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: most of my regions

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: im the only person who ever visits them

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: besides the ocasional explorer

[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so you don't have any high traffic windows regions?

[10:34] Tiffany Sicling sends her regions to the tire shop to fix the leaks

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: no one hangs out there long

[10:34] Fly Man is Online

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: sure

[10:34] Charles Krinke: How can we get an independent confirmation on a non-plaza regioin that helpps the devs move forward on this memory issue

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: Teravus and SeaPrior

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: are on windows 2003

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: they leak too

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: just like this region

[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so it doesn't sound like a mono specific problem

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think its windows or .net or linux or mono

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: it crosses all boundries

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: big crack :)

[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: heh

[10:35] Tiffany Sicling: any help I can do, logs, memory stats, etc. on Dradis (suburb of Lbsa Plaza ) I can do, please let me know

[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: Tiffany: I might ask you if I get any time to work on this, though unfortunatley that might not happen this week

[10:35] BlueWall Slade: Justin I have logs from ther etoo

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: hello Fly Man

[10:36] BlueWall Slade: so just ask

[10:36] Fly Man: Hello :)

[10:36] Charles Krinke: Lets put a 'mall' on Justin's region and label it "next years black dress fashions preview" and then stand back to avoid being trampled.

[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: maybe you could try running with one of the basic mono profilers again?

[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: ha ha ha

[10:36] Tiffany Sicling: lol

[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, if I ran a high traffic region the problem would really be hitting me in the face :)

[10:36] Fly Man: Yeah, I like the bench already ...

[10:37] Fly Man: Everyone is doing Yoga ...

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:37] Fly Man: So yeah, what a way to start ;)

[10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: there is actually a profiler called live-type which prints out class information stats every time the GC runs

[10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: which might reveal if there is some massive object inflation in the system

[10:38] paulie Flomar is Offline

[10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm not sure how well that would work with high traffic regions, it's probably something I would try if I were to set about seriously trying to debug the issue

[10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: that would actually be a good thing for a tester to try, though it would need a little bit of work to build the profiler

[10:39] Charles Krinke: Well, either "we" (OSGrid) have made a mistake in diagnosis, or other standalones and grids are about to hit memory walls also.

[10:40] Fly Man: Well, it depends what a wall would be

[10:40] Fly Man: There are some regions that I restart daily ...

[10:40] Fly Man: but I haven't experienced high memory

[10:40] Tiffany Sicling: I do know when swap file is touched... might as well reboot linux

[10:41] Charles Krinke: Well, this ossue just seems to be one that goes on and on and tends to be worrisome.

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya i might need to reboot this server actually

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: as well as the windows box

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: seems to help alot

[10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps it might be worth seeing if one of the other core devs can spend some time on it? Do you think this issue has much visibility outside this meeting?

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: making things stable for couple days anyway

[10:41] BlueWall Slade: yeah I find Mono 2.2 / 2.4 dies when you get into swap pretty good

[10:41] Tiffany Sicling: what's weird is, even after I kill all mono sessions, the memory is still being taken up by invisible something... I have to reboot to recover it

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya your cache will

[10:42] Charles Krinke: Justin. I dont think so. I think the perception is that we are potentially making a bigger deal of it then is justified.

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: but still even if you flush linux cache out

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: and get the memory back

[10:42] BlueWall Slade: 2.0.1 does weird things like consuming all of swap

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: its still unstable

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: until you reboot

[10:42] Fly Man: well, the strange thing is that everyone is till at 1.9.1 or 2.0.1

[10:42] Fly Man: and I have seen things happen with that one

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya i tried em all

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: and im stuck at 2.0.1

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: if i want it to run more than 20 minutes

[10:42] Tiffany Sicling: isn't there any cleanup ability to clear memory no longer used in mono/opensim ?

[10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: isn't 2.4 out soon?

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: suse seems not to have newer one the 2.0.1

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: RC is out for 2.4

[10:43] Charles Krinke: Perhaps more conversations with SDague?

[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: It should be clear as soon as you kill the processes. Something odd is happening in your system

[10:43] BlueWall Slade: I migrated up Fly Man, but wnet back because of the swaps space issues

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: buy i find anything beyond 2.0.1

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: is unusable with opensim

[10:43] Snowdrop Short: 2.4 was released yesterday

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: you get ODE errors galore

[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: snowdrop: oh right

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: and trampolines

[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyone tried 2.4 yet?

[10:43] Tiffany Sicling: well, the memory thing started as soon as I updated to mono 2.0.1

[10:43] Fly Man: Justin, on 2.5 TRUNK

[10:44] BlueWall Slade: I think the GC is having issues when it gets into swap

[10:44] Fly Man: and I haven't experienced issues so far

[10:44] Snowdrop Short: I haven't been able to build 2.4 yet :-(

[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: there's definitely a 'trampoline' problem in 2.2, but I'm wondering if that has been fixed in 2.4

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt in RC1

[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: snowdrop: Ah, so no binaries yet?

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: 2.4 RC1 had lots of trampolines

[10:44] Fly Man: BUT:

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: also

[10:44] Dahlia Trimble is Online

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: 2.5 does too

[10:44] Fly Man: I didn't compile with that patch

[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: I saw a bug report which suggested it may have been fixed at some point, though if it's present in RC1 that's not too encouraging

[10:45] Fly Man: that one that outputs info

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: 2.5 has major trampoline errors too

[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: oh man

[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: somebody should really report that to the mono guys

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: flyman didnt you talk to them?

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we can relay some info to them

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: they dont seem very receptive though

[10:46] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia

[10:46] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: hey dahlia :)

[10:46] Fly Man: Yes, but haven't heard back from them

[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: oh right? In what way?

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: ah they seem on the war path thats all

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: forging ahead without much input

[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm beginning to think that we're the major stresser of mono :) Often when I look up mono bugs I end up seeing our mantis reports quite high up on the list

[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: hum

[10:46] Charles Krinke: Soundslike us, sometimes

[10:47] Charles Krinke: "forging ahead without much inpuyt"

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:47] BlueWall Slade: jhurliman is proabbly a good person to contact them.

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not saying its a bad thing

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: just that sometimes they arent really listening

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: just kinda nodding at you

[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's tough

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:47] Richardus Raymaker: why is there not some .net to linux C++ converter ?

[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: almost makes one want to install everything on windows ;)

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey jokes

[10:47] Richardus Raymaker: so you can run without mono

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: well i am there at the moment

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: only because its more convienient

[10:48] BlueWall Slade: I don't even have windows

[10:48] BlueWall Slade: lol

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: in my haste to reorganize hardware

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: it was just easier to slap on windows

[10:48] Charles Krinke: Its pobably a similar poblem. If a developer runs a unit or integration test and it succeeds, it becomes difficult to visualize the stress we give the software on a plaza like this one.

[10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yes

[10:48] Fly Man: Well, Justin knows what we need ...

[10:48] Fly Man: and it's called Profiling

[10:49] sim core needs and auto memory flush for the sim

[10:49] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't blame you for running windows - it is going to perform better than mono right now, I shoudl think

[10:49] Charles Krinke: ok, so lets investigate profiling a bit on a few regions.

[10:49] BlueWall Slade: yes, the interaction between avatars and regions, regions and regions does a lot o fthings

[10:49] Tiffany Sicling: yea, I was tempted to trash my server and put windoze on it lol

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya mostly for me it was i didnt have time ro recompile the kernel 15 times

[10:49] BlueWall Slade: that would trash it

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: and look for missing dependancies

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: i needed to get the sims running in a few hours

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: but nobody give windows for free, besides that. then im getting stressed :)

[10:49] sim core: I run win xp and mac osx now

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: i need to get more linux friendly hardware

[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: Fly-Man-: To be blunt, I think what we really need is a core dev to sit down for a few days and analyze the heck out of it

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: thats my biggest problem

[10:50] Tiffany Sicling: I'm afraid to put a region back on my OSX box lol

[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: getting the time is a problem

[10:50] Fly Man: Justin, still he/she needs to have info where to look ;)

[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: i go put osgrid regions back on stranger server. with linux

[10:50] sim core: Osx is good, if not perfect

[10:50] Fly Man: And Profiling would help

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: i saw adam and was it 3di or Rex was doing load testing

[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: Fly-Man-: True. I hear that profiling is better on windows (though maybe that is with commercial tools)

[10:50] Tiffany Sicling: yea, but memory leaks still occur on OSX too

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: the data is on adams blog

[10:51] Dahlia Trimble: I've been following some of the Intel profiling efforts but I cant say I understand them very well

[10:51] sim core: Indeed, memory leaks are cumulative on both systems ( win/ osx )

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.gwala.net/blog/

[10:51] BlueWall Slade: Justin - do you have a url for that profiling tool?

[10:51] sim core: Just seems on osx it's more robist when swap files are kicking in

[10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: which one?

[10:51] BlueWall Slade: I googled, but get some Apple video tool

[10:51] sim core: *Robust

[10:51] BlueWall Slade: live-type

[10:51] Charles Krinke: live-type

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: i think when your dealing in terms of GC 64 bit will always be more efficient

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: in that sense

[10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: are you running on mono?

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: 32 bit has to peddle harder

[10:52] BlueWall Slade: yes

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: hence macs more efficent feel

[10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: if you type man mono and then search for PROFILERS you shoudl see it

[10:52] BlueWall Slade: ok, thanks

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: but getting it up and running on 64 bit isnt always easy

[10:52] Tiffany Sicling: eaglefx has issues with 64bit but not sure exactly what they are

[10:53] Fly Man: Well, I'm still pressing on the button to get more information about a region

[10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: if one of those classes reaches some big number then that would give a good clue as to where a leak may be

[10:53] Fly Man: but that's in line after the OSProfile

[10:53] BlueWall Slade: I have to order a new MB so I can get more RAM ni teh box

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: live type prints out the number of objects of each class every time the GC runs

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: oh since were talking about hardware

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you guys something

[10:54] BlueWall Slade: I run really goo if I keep keep some headroom in RAM

[10:54] BlueWall Slade: good

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: oh sorry, number of bytes consumed, not number of objects

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: actually, might even be interesting to hack the code just to prin tout the top 5 or even the top 2....

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i found this motherboard on ebay

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmmmm

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: for 110$

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: with 2gb ram

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: its a Dual core 1.6ghz atom

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: 45nm

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: i imagine these might make pretty good region servers

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: throw a ssd drive on there

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: you could probably run a few regions

[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: diva says she ehink the wind module problem may be mono-addins related, but isn't to do with libomv

[10:55] Teravus Ousley is Online

[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: not so fast, pahge still loading.. nice is to have a I7 board. its haveing 6 ram slots

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks for update justin

[10:56] Fly Man: But do we have a "Supported version" for this week ?

[10:56] Tiffany Sicling: hi eaglefx

[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: 8849 ?

[10:56] Dahlia Trimble: "Supported"?

[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: hi eagle

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya i7 would be nice

[10:56] Charles Krinke: 8849

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: but your talking about 800$ minumum

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: for hardware

[10:56] Charles Krinke: 8849 is "recommended" for this sweek

[10:57] Teravus Ousley: heh, I always recommend running release versions for production systems :)

[10:57] Tiffany Sicling: how is 8849 doing ?

[10:57] Charles Krinke:, too conservative

[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: yeah, board is expoensiev 259 euro here. then 6GB memory and cpu needed.

[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody here running a production system? :)

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: openlifegrid

[10:57] Fly Man: *raises hand*

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: jk

[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: ooh, HomerH just volunteered to look at the wind module

[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: heh

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: everythings 100% and perfect over there :P

[10:58] Charles Krinke: good

[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: Fly-Man-: You are a brave man, sir :)

[10:58] Fly Man: I am ;)

[10:58] Fly Man: You should have seen my first TV experience ;)

[10:58] Teravus Ousley: http://teravus.wmcv.com/googletester/twf.avi

[10:58] BlueWall Slade: hah - all the "production" people seem to distance themselves from us

[10:58] Charles Krinke: I gotta go do my manager dance with memo wars, posturing staements, political engineering

[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: they do?

[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Charles

[10:59] BlueWall Slade: Have fun CK

[10:59] Charles Krinke is Offline

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: see ya charles

[10:59] BlueWall Slade: naah, Justin - just not many show up here.

[10:59] Teravus Ousley: http://teravus.wmcv.com/googletester/twf.avi <-- Bullet physics plugin test

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: im downloading now

[11:00] Fly Man: Ahh, good 1st of April joke Teravus ;)

[11:00] Teravus Ousley: it isn't quite ready for the likes of wright plaza yet.. but it can do basic things..

[11:00] Teravus Ousley: heh, that was no joke.

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[11:00] Fly Man: Ooo, okay :p

[11:00] Fly Man grins

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: if you need some crazy hardware to test on

[11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: They're too busy rebooting their servers ;)

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i can offer up my Q9400 CPU

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:00] Fly Man whispers: Neb, we need to tal later btw ;)

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: k FLy Man

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be around on IRC

[11:01] Fly Man: Neb, need ya inworld ;)

[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: nice mainboard on newegg. but small

[11:01] Teravus Ousley: Cool. I want to get a linux version compiled and then I'll commit what I have and work from there.

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: no problem fly-man

[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: then you need many of them.. = hig energy usage

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: why such a lowres video Teravus?

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya well you can on ebay get the entire machine

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: for 110$

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: or do I simply have too big a screen

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: wtih 2gb ram and cpu

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: so for like less than 200$

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: you could build a server pretty much

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: small HD

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: and mini case

[11:02] Teravus Ousley: heh, lowrez because I wanted a small file :)

[11:02] Dahlia Trimble: everyone downloads ter's video at the same time :/

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: you should try youtube

[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: what cpu do you have then ?

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: they really compress em down nice

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: you can download the mp4 from them

[11:02] Dahlia Trimble: they let you download now?

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it will turn a 1gb file into about 100-150meg file

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya well

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: they dont advertise you can download it

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: let me get you some instructions

[11:03] Fly Man: K, some issues have been fixed this week

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2008/04/download-youtube-videos-as-mp4-files.html

[11:03] Fly Man: but I still see a simple issue reoccuring:

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: this will allow you to download the low-res Mp4

[11:03] Dahlia Trimble: ty :)

[11:03] Fly Man: "Mantus reports"

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.sizlopedia.com/2008/12/20/download-youtube-hd-videos-in-mp4/

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: this lets you do HD youtube vids

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i use it all the time

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ive actually been using youtube

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: as my render farm for converting video

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:04] Dahlia Trimble: lol

[11:04] Teravus Ousley: heh

[11:05] Teravus Ousley: maybe I should get divX or something also

[11:05] Tiffany Sicling: I get a black screen and no sound, even with VLC

[11:05] Fly Man: But do we have some other things to talk about ?

[11:05] Teravus Ousley: It uses the 'Microsoft Video 1' codec.

[11:06] Fly Man: Else I will be back onto Profile work

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://cole2k.net

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: is the codec pack i use

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: it installs virtually every format known to man

[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: can someone try a ping to osgrid from europe ?

[11:07] Fly Man: richardus: 95 ms

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I think I shall pop off now

[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: i have almost 50% packetloss. yes its my isp

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully everybody got move of the meeting time back to 1800 UTC for the summer... :)

[11:07] Programmer Mohr: Reply from 4.71.184.27: bytes=32 time=86ms TTL=54

[11:07] Dahlia Trimble: me too.. bye all :)

[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: now its ok again

[11:08] Fly Man: k

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: bye dahlia

[11:08] Fly Man is off as well

[11:08] Dahlia Trimble is Offline

[11:08] Teravus Ousley: heh, happy pre april fools..

[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks

[11:08] Fly Man: *waves*

[11:08] Fly Man is Offline

[11:08] Programmer Mohr: going too

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey waits with anticipation as to what is going to happen

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: on April Fool's that is

[11:09] Teravus Ousley: I guess I was late.. and not early

[11:09] Teravus Ousley: go figure :P

[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

[11:09] Programmer Mohr: if someone need a testregion... i have a few.. just contact me

[11:10] Programmer Mohr: bye for now

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ok well i think that about wraps up this weeks meet

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: unless anyone has anything else

[11:10] Tiffany Sicling: not at this time :)

[11:10] BlueWall Slade: Thanks! good meeting.

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ok well until next week then

[11:10] sim core: Oh right, can anyone tell-me what the 'un-ack' indicator in the 'show stats' command meand?

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be on iRC if needed

[11:11] sim core: *Means

[11:11] sim core: I get about half a billion ( really ) of thse sometimes

[11:11] Tiffany Sicling: Great meeting, guys

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: basiclly it means packet loss i think

[11:11] sim core: *Those

[11:11] sim core: Hum, thank-you :-)

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: or out of order packets to maybe

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i think anyway

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: un-acknowlesdged

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: is what it means i think

[11:11] sim core: Well, happens both on mac osx and win xp

[11:12] sim core: And seems the messages that it creates makes it lag a lot

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: sounds like packet loss to me

[11:12] eaglefx Binder: will u post it on the Wiki, i came in late.

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i will

[11:12] Tiffany Sicling: I've had packet loss even on a 100Mb LAN

[11:12] sim core: That would mean a client oversizing theirs bandwith, maybe?

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i have the entire log

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: even before we crashed

[11:12] sim core: *Their

[11:12] eaglefx Binder: Ok

[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: unackB = 2581 here. thats for lets say 1 hour running

[11:13] eaglefx Binder: i have been hanging out with SL live Billig chat for over and hour now.. LOL Geeee

[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: you always lost some packet. but not to much

[11:13] sim core: Sometimes it remains at zero, but most of the time it goes into millions or 10 times more even...

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya if its that high thats bad

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: might be router freaking out

[11:13] Richardus Raymaker: hm sound not good

[11:13] sim core: If it's packet loss, I'll try to pinpoint the problem

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya it definatly is

[11:14] sim core: Oddly enough, it's not allways

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: hmm sounds like router then maybe

[11:14] sim core: And mostly when people login or logout

[11:14] eaglefx Binder: did you talk about the bad stuff that happened since 8938 today?

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya i bet your router cant handle the massive influx of requests

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its dropping packets

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: i have a neatgear that does that too

[11:14] sim core: Is it router side or client side?

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say could be either really

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: my 1st guess

[11:15] BlueWall Slade is Offline

[11:15] Tiffany Sicling: 8938 kills itself to shell after a osTeleportAgent transfer from it to another region

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: is router

[11:15] sim core: So the indicator is not defined for one or the other, then

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: NAT can be overwhelmed

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: almost DOS like

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the way it treats it

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of router is it?

[11:15] sim core: I see no droppped packets on the router interface

[11:15] sim core: 2701

[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: i have a replaced RV042. not a bad one. but its not easy to see. because without router you dotn use the interent (the same way)

[11:15] BlueWall Slade is Online

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats good

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: maybe bad cable?

[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: any wireless on your net?

[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: sorry its a linksys

[11:16] sim core: Yes, wireless and ethernet regions

[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: no, no not wireless here

[11:16] Tiffany Sicling: hehe, linksys

[11:16] sim core: Gateway 2701 G

[11:16] Teravus Ousley: k.. I guess I'll go also :P

[11:17] sim core: See-you, terravus

[11:17] sim core: *Teravus

[11:17] Tiffany Sicling: my experience with linksys is they have a small NAT table

[11:17] Teravus Ousley: take care. Have a good day before April 1

[11:17] Tiffany Sicling: bye Teravus :)

[11:17] Teravus Ousley is Offline

[11:17] sim core: Wpuldn't it be noted in the router log if it was it that dropped the packets?

[11:18] sim core: I mostly suspect the clients dropping

[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: ok. see you later. time to call isp again

[11:18] sim core: Maybe from the linden UDP setting, maybe?

[11:18] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

[11:19] Ideia Boa: Bye all, have a good day and true April 1

[11:20] eaglefx Binder: well seems like i got my account back now on SL ... HAHA Geees they are bad.

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys i gotta run

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: before my phone rings again

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol need lunch

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: take care guys

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: see ya soon