Chat log from the meeting on 2010-10-12

[18:16] Dorothea Lundquist is Online [18:16] Could not read the specified Config Notecard [18:16] Franziska Bossi has entered chat range (2.9m) [18:16] Axelroo Gummi has entered chat range (3.4m) [18:16] Ruben Haan has entered chat range (9.2m) [18:16] ElRozzo McDonnell has entered chat range (11.6m) [18:16] Penny Lane has entered chat range (8.1m) [18:16] Richardus Raymaker has entered chat range (3.6m) [18:16] vas leo has entered chat range (3.4m) [18:16] Auti Blanco has entered chat range (9.5m) [18:16] Andrew Hellershanks has entered chat range (4.5m) [18:16] Justin Clark-Casey has entered chat range (7.7m) [18:16] Lalinda Perhaps has entered chat range (8.1m) [18:16] Patty Bookmite has entered chat range (10.5m) [18:16] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is back [18:16] Nebadon Izumi: im heading over [18:16] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [18:16]  Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Lbsa%20Plaza/129/126/38 [18:16] The region you have entered is running a different simulator version: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Post_Fixes) 76fd4cf: 2010-09-30 15:43:56 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [18:18] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone [18:18] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [18:18]  Richardus Raymaker: hi [18:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello again [18:18]  Nebadon Izumi: its armin [18:19]  Nebadon Izumi: he keeps crashing the sim [18:19]  Nebadon Izumi: im going to ban him from sim [18:19]  Entering god mode, level 255 [18:19]  Dahlia Trimble: whats he doing? [18:19]  Nebadon Izumi: no clue [18:19]  Nebadon Izumi: but everytime he logs in sim goes to 0fps [18:19]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [18:19]  Richardus Raymaker: maby he runs the latest experimental ? [18:20]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure [18:20]  Hiro Protagonist is Online [18:20]  Richardus Raymaker: hi penny [18:20]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Post_Fixes) 76fd4cf: 2010-09-30 15:43:56 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [18:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: If he is, I'm sure he'd be happy to drop down to imprudence stable if he knows he's crashing the place [18:20]  Richardus Raymaker: why does lbsa not have that problem ? [18:20] Richardus Raymaker: best if he try stable yes [18:20] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if he tried logging in there [18:21] Richardus Raymaker: good to know thjat i must not upgrade imprudence [18:21] Adelle Fitzgerald: yaay for failed teleports :) [18:21]  Andrew Hellershanks whispers: which version of imprudence causes problems? [18:21]  Dahlia Trimble: im running latest imprudence release [18:21]  Nebadon Izumi: no clue [18:21]  Adelle Fitzgerald: hello all [18:21]  Nebadon Izumi: not even sure it was imprudence [18:21]  Dahlia Trimble: hi [18:22]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [18:22]  Nebadon Izumi: sorry for the delays everyone [18:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have a copy of 1.3.0-rc2 but I'm not using it [18:22]  Hiro Protagonist: Hiyas :) [18:22] Justin Clark-Casey: speculation? [18:22] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I tweeted him :) [18:22]  Nebadon Izumi: yes everytime Armin Weatherwax logs in the sim freezes [18:22]  Nebadon Izumi: he probably is using imprudence [18:22]  Nebadon Izumi: but who knows [18:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: Easy to find out by asking him [18:22]  Nebadon Izumi: ya not sure if he is online [18:22]  Nebadon Izumi: hes not on IRC [18:23]  Richardus Raymaker: i use imprudence to [18:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: twitter.com/ArminWeatherwax [18:23]  Nebadon Izumi: i blocked his 2 avatars from the sim for the moment [18:23]  Andrew Hellershanks: Leave him an inworld message [18:23]  Nebadon Izumi: well it says he is online [18:23]  Nebadon Izumi: but he isnt responding [18:23]  Andrew Hellershanks: k [18:23]  Nebadon Izumi: so i doubt hes going to get anything i said [18:23]  Richardus Raymaker: i can ask armin in irc [18:24]  Nebadon Izumi: he isnt there [18:24] Richardus Raymaker: aah [18:24] Nebadon Izumi: or i would have asked him on IRC [18:24] Andrew Hellershanks: might be in another region that is now at fps [18:24] Andrew Hellershanks: 0fps [18:24] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, we should probably talk if there is anything to talk about [18:24] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [18:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: you guys really going ahead with the 0.7 upgrade on Sunday? :) [18:24] Nebadon Izumi: yes [18:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: We usually find something to talk about [18:24]  Dahlia Trimble: Sunday? hmmm [18:24]  Richardus Raymaker: wich version of 0.7 ? [18:24]  Nebadon Izumi: master [18:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: osgrid going to 0.7 this Sunday? cool [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [18:25]  Richardus Raymaker: already available for download ? [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: no [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: not yet [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: probably by friday [18:25]  Richardus Raymaker: thats way to late [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: i should have sample ini's and release [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: why [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: you wont be able to upgrade until monday [18:25]  BlueWall Slade: I'm getting some nasty SQLite errors on master atm [18:25]  Richardus Raymaker: it takes some time to do all servers [18:25]  BlueWall Slade: won't build [18:25]  BlueWall Slade: mono 2.8 [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: you wont loose your spaces Richardus [18:25] Dahlia Trimble: wont build? [18:25] BlueWall Slade: no [18:26]  Richardus Raymaker: aha other question yes. can we use mono 0.6.7 ? or later ? [18:26] Nebadon Izumi: your not going to be able to ugprade your sims until monday [18:26] BlueWall Slade: I haven't had time to sort it out yet [18:26] Richardus Raymaker: i need to do 24 ini files + 16 test at home. lol [18:26] Nebadon Izumi: if you really want to look check Danger grid [18:26] Hiro Protagonist: is that all Rira? [18:26] Nebadon Izumi: i have alot more to do that than Richardus [18:26] Richardus Raymaker: lo hiro [18:26] Nebadon Izumi: plus i have to upgrade the entire grid [18:26] Hiro Protagonist: as do I [18:26]  Nebadon Izumi: but like i said there is no rush [18:27] Richardus Raymaker: until i figured out how many regions you can test on windows 4GB, yes hiro [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: the Region database will be migrated [18:27] Dahlia Trimble: I think I have a region running on danger somewhere [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: no one will loose their spaces [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: and if you want to experiment you can hook a sim up to Danger grid [18:27] Richardus Raymaker: except clean shutdown right ? [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.danger.osgrid.org [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya just like normal [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: if you do a clean shut down you will loose your space [18:28] Richardus Raymaker: i hoped to prepare the ini's already on a relaxed way [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: but we will kill the grid servers before anyone shuts down [18:28] BlueWall Slade: hehe - OSGrid / kill -9 is your friend [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: you will have 4 days [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to get it posted early on Friday [18:28] Richardus Raymaker: so its till monay down. ok [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: right [18:28] Richardus Raymaker: monday [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: it will be around 24 hours [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: before grid is back online [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: might be faster [18:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen shutdowns not remove entries from the regions table [18:28] Richardus Raymaker: or slower [18:29] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it will take longer [18:29] Nebadon Izumi: unless something goes really wrong [18:29] Nebadon Izumi: like some kind of data center outtage or something [18:29] Nebadon Izumi: short of that i dont see it taking more than 24 hours [18:29] Andrew Hellershanks: If they are going to have one, that is the time it will happen :-) [18:29]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [18:30]  Nebadon Izumi: i think it will go pretty smoothly myself [18:30]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon mono 2.8 already downloadable with zypper ? [18:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: Optimism, that's what I like to hear [18:31]  Andrew Hellershanks: its the post upgrade stuff you will find out about soon enough [18:31]  Nebadon Izumi: a few people have already migrated their sims to danger grid as a test [18:31]  Dahlia Trimble: ewwww mono 2.8 [18:31]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure Richardus [18:31]  Nebadon Izumi: probably not [18:31]  BlueWall Slade: yes it is [18:31]  Richardus Raymaker: ok, thehn i try 0.6.7 [18:31]  Nebadon Izumi: with stock repo's BlueWall? [18:31]  BlueWall Slade: yes [18:31]  Nebadon Izumi: thats suprising [18:31]  BlueWall Slade: it is released [18:31]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but that doesnt mean its in the repos always [18:32] Richardus Raymaker: yes. think not right tiome to do [18:32] BlueWall Slade: http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html [18:32] Nebadon Izumi: my testing with 2.8 wasnt so bad [18:32] Nebadon Izumi: right but that tells you to add new repos bluewall [18:32] Nebadon Izumi: im talking about the stock Suse repo's [18:32]  Nebadon Izumi: let me check [18:32] Dahlia Trimble: why do people want to upgrade to 2.8? [18:32] BlueWall Slade: zypper addrepo http://ftp.novell.com/pub/mono/download-stable/openSUSE_11.3 mono-stable [18:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya [18:33]  BlueWall Slade: well, it has mono-sgen [18:33] Nebadon Izumi: thats not the stock suse repo [18:33] Justin Clark-Casey: in the hopes it will perform, better I ugess [18:33] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt perform any better [18:33] Nebadon Izumi: if you ask me [18:33]  Nebadon Izumi: 2.4.2.3 runs better for me [18:33]  Dahlia Trimble: but it has bugs [18:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya Meshmerizer has bugz [18:33] Dahlia Trimble: 2.4.2.3 ++ [18:33] Nebadon Izumi: your going to have problems on 2.8 [18:33] Richardus Raymaker: comapre sofar possible mono 2.4.2.3 with win7 pro difference 4GB and 2 cores [18:33] Dahlia Trimble: it's not a meshmerizer bug, its a mono bug [18:33] BlueWall Slade: I have been on 2.6.7 since it came out [18:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya [18:34]  Nebadon Izumi: sorry Dahlia just mean your going to run into bugs [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: using Meshmerizer + 2.8 [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: a library meshmerizer uses is broken [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: alteast in x64 [18:34] Justin Clark-Casey: meshmerizer isn't all managed code? [18:34] BlueWall Slade: I didn't get that on 0.7x yet [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: my testing with x86 was better [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: but limited [18:34] Dahlia Trimble: System.Drawing.Imaging is broken (as usual) [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: your using x86 or x64 Bluewall? [18:34] BlueWall Slade: x64 [18:34] Richardus Raymaker: hi juicy [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: interesting [18:34] Nebadon Izumi: i had major issues [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: on 0.6.9 and 0.7 [18:35] BlueWall Slade: the 0.6.9-pf was a different story [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: are you using Sculpty? [18:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess even the first releases in a new 2.x series are dodgy [18:35] Juicy Babii nods [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: if not slap a few dozen sculpty in your sim [18:35] BlueWall Slade: there are a couple [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt even get my sims tos tart [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: to start* [18:35] BlueWall Slade: thsi wa an oar [18:35] Dahlia Trimble: I added a flag to disable sculpt map caching [18:35] Dahlia Trimble: in the ini file [18:35] BlueWall Slade: I'm going to migrate the dev grid soon [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya i still need to test that [18:36] BlueWall Slade: so, what is up with it Dahlia ? [18:36] Richardus Raymaker: the way i read it hear not much hope mono gets really better soon [18:36] Dahlia Trimble: so if you get crashes on sim restarts with mono 2.8 try setting that flag to false [18:36] BlueWall Slade: ok [18:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, ppl were down on 2.6.x and that seems okay now [18:36] Dahlia Trimble: to disable scuplt map caching [18:36] Justin Clark-Casey: 2.8 probably needs to time to have the bugs ironed out [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: what i dont get is Mono keeps adding stuff [18:37] BlueWall Slade: everything I have is good on mono [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: but performance is not improveing [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: have you seen any improvment though Bluewall? [18:37] Richardus Raymaker: thats bad [18:37] BlueWall Slade: running with mono-sgen show up a couple of things [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: 2.4 runs much better than 2.8 [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: for me [18:37]  BlueWall Slade: I have just run it on my dev grid [18:37] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, opensim probably has much more scope for perf improvements than mono [18:37] Richardus Raymaker: the still aim for other mono use i think where speed is not so important [18:37] Dahlia Trimble: I didnt backport that flag so its only in master branch [18:37] BlueWall Slade: 2.6.7 on the grid [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: ive not seen any improvement from sgen though [18:38] Nebadon Izumi: memory usage seemed higher infact [18:38] Nebadon Izumi: for Wright Plaza [18:38] Hiro Protagonist: Rira for god's sake man, there is a 'y' on the end of the word 'they' [18:38] BlueWall Slade: I will be able to see when I can migrate the dev grit - at least a little [18:38] Nebadon Izumi: cool ya id like to know what you find for sure [18:38] Nebadon Izumi: after the OSgrid migration i'll play more with 2.8 again [18:38] BlueWall Slade: I really dont' see anu change on the one region [18:39] Nebadon Izumi: im a bit disapointed overall so far though [18:39] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, concentrate on that migration first :) [18:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: hope you have vats of coffee and the sandbags ready in the bunker ;) [18:39] Nebadon Izumi: heh [18:39] BlueWall Slade: I restart sims each day [18:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya we'll be pretty busy all week prepping for the switch [18:39] Nebadon Izumi: were moving on to new hardware too [18:40] Nebadon Izumi: so thats fun [18:40] BlueWall Slade: they get messy after a few hours [18:40] BlueWall Slade: ohhh, man, lol [18:40] Justin Clark-Casey: Bluewall: messy? [18:40] BlueWall Slade: lot's of monkey wrenches [18:40] Dahlia Trimble: I restart them after I notice they crash, which can be a week lol [18:40] BlueWall Slade: they use cpu [18:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya the new server should run alot better [18:40] BlueWall Slade: sometimes the PhysFT goes up [18:40]  Nebadon Izumi: the current OSgrid server is getting old [18:41] BlueWall Slade: it is nasty if people login while the scripts are loading [18:41] Nebadon Izumi: the operating system on that box is a complete mess [18:41] Justin Clark-Casey: we need to update to ode 11.1 sometime [18:41] Nebadon Izumi: Debian 4 that was 1/2 ass dist-upgraded to Debian 5 [18:41] Nebadon Izumi: 3 years of testing stuff [18:41] Hiro Protagonist: Ok that worked, now I can concentrate on harrassing youse guyz XD [18:41]  Nebadon Izumi: total mess [18:42] Nebadon Izumi: new server is Suse 11.3 x64 [18:42] BlueWall Slade: it would be awesome if some person gifted in that area would jump on the ODE code and make it integrate bettwe with OS [18:42]  Nebadon Izumi: twice as much ram [18:42] Nebadon Izumi: much bigger / faster drives [18:42] Dorothea Lundquist is Offline [18:42] Hiro Protagonist: raid too, correct? [18:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya [18:42]  BlueWall Slade: that should fly [18:42] Nebadon Izumi: 2x 500gb raid [18:42] Nebadon Izumi: right now we have 120gb [18:42] Hiro Protagonist: yeah its a beastly box, I know I had it provisioned LOL [18:43] Hiro Protagonist: (its a simhost box) [18:43] Hiro Protagonist does a little shameless self promotion [18:43] Justin Clark-Casey: how many regions does osgrid run directly? the 4 plazas? [18:43] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: :) [18:44]  Hiro Protagonist: do we still have that big mega, vehicle load test? [18:44]  Nebadon Izumi: thats not running at the moment [18:44]  Hiro Protagonist: kk [18:44]  Hiro Protagonist: was just gonna throw it into the count [18:44]  Nebadon Izumi: we have Lbsa Plaza, Wright Plaza, 2 Sandbox Plazas [18:44]  Nebadon Izumi: Bade Plaza, Zaius Plaza, OSgrid Welcome Station [18:45]  Hiro Protagonist: SeaSeaPrior [18:45]  Nebadon Izumi: Teravus Plaza, Bade Plaza [18:45]  Nebadon Izumi: SeaPrior [18:45]  Hiro Protagonist: yeah Ter [18:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: 10 [18:45]  Dorothea Lundquist is Online [18:45]  Nebadon Izumi: and 3 void sims [18:45]  Hiro Protagonist: lol he listed Bade twice :p [18:45]  Nebadon Izumi: the void sims are like 25 sims [18:45]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya whoops [18:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: k [18:45]  Nebadon Izumi: i meant SeaPrior but typed bade [18:45] Justin Clark-Casey: so you're going to upgrade everything and just let me ppl upgrade their systems and come back on once they've done that? [18:45] Nebadon Izumi: there are few plazas offline [18:46] paulie Flomar is Online [18:46] Hiro Protagonist: I think thats more or less the plan [18:46] paulie Flomar is Offline [18:47] Nebadon Izumi: yes [18:47] Nebadon Izumi: we'll post new release on friday [18:47] Nebadon Izumi: so people can have a look at the differences [18:47] Justin Clark-Casey: that sounds good. At least you don't have the linden problem of having to upgrade thousands of customer systems... [18:47] Hiro Protagonist: OSGrid doesnt lol [18:47] Hiro Protagonist: I suppose I'm fortunate I dont have *thousands* [18:47] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [18:47]  Nebadon Izumi: i dunno whats worse though [18:48] Hiro Protagonist: oth if I did I'd probably have staff [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: having to help a few 1000 people who dont know what they are doing [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: or doing everything yourself [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: lol [18:48] Hiro Protagonist: lol [18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, don't know how you guys cope [18:48] Richardus Raymaker: DO yoiu expect changes in the ini. else i can git the latest and do ini files [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: the good thing though is that everyone on the grid is helpful [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: more than just the admins can help [18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [18:49] Nebadon Izumi: everyone is usually pretty helpful when we have these big migration type upgrades [18:49] Hiro Protagonist: yeah information is viral [18:49] Hiro Protagonist: it just has to get out [18:49] Nebadon Izumi: plus we have had a bunch of adventerous types test migrating regions to Danger grid [18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: there are lots of ini changes - you can't use the xisting files [18:49] acryline erin: I have translate information in french [18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: that's true - they know what's coming [18:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya if anyone wants to you can just make a copy of your database [18:49] Nebadon Izumi: and do a test migration to Danger grid today [18:50] Justin Clark-Casey: acryline: very nice [18:50] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to get a feel for how it will go down [18:50] Nebadon Izumi: just be sure to change the ports if your doing it on the same server [18:50] Dahlia Trimble: gotta run, bye all :) [18:50]  Hiro Protagonist: bye Dhalia [18:50]  Nebadon Izumi: we have already migrated all users/inventory/ assets to danger grid [18:50]  BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia [18:50]  Nebadon Izumi: bye dahlia [18:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [18:50]  Bartholomew Kleiber: bye dahlia [18:50]  Richardus Raymaker: No justin. i already use 0.7.1 [18:50]  Kiyoshi Nyoki waves' [18:51]  Juicy Babii: so that's where my inventory went!!! [18:51]  Richardus Raymaker: on standalone. so i think to git the latest and use the config files to prepare somthing [18:51]  Juicy Babii giggles [18:51]  Richardus Raymaker: bye dalhia [18:51]  Hiro Protagonist: lol Juicy [18:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yeah, shouldn't be too bad then. I think you would just need to change GridCommon.ini [18:51]  Richardus Raymaker: i mean i want to use git 0.7.x files. but are there some changes to come before friday ? [18:51] Nebadon Izumi: so far though there have been minimal problems migrating [18:51] perrson neox: hi [18:51]  Nebadon Izumi: Simpy even migrated his 25 region mega region [18:52] Nebadon Izumi: with 71000 prims [18:52] Nebadon Izumi: went pretty smooth [18:52] Richardus Raymaker: is the fault corrected in the ini files with missing some lines ? [18:52] BlueWall Slade: heh [18:52] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: nobody is reporting problems with the new OpenSimDefaults.ini use? [18:52] Nebadon Izumi: not really [18:52] Nebadon Izumi: most everyone has used the Danger Grid release though [18:52] Hiro Protagonist: some of bitched loudly about the change inconfiguration heh [18:53] Nebadon Izumi: i imagine people going directly from git might be a bit more confused [18:53] Hiro Protagonist: but as it turns out, it isnt so gnarly [18:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya [18:53]  Nebadon Izumi: its shocking at 1st [18:53] Nebadon Izumi: but after someone spends about 30 seconds explaining [18:53] Nebadon Izumi: your like ooh [18:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok [18:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno, I'm not a fan of all the veriage in OpenSim.ini.example now [18:53] Nebadon Izumi: not so bad [18:53] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway [18:53] Richardus Raymaker: the git files are still not changed much. [18:53] BlueWall Slade: I havent' seen anyt problems with core one [18:53] BlueWall Slade: ours (OMF) is hosed a little [18:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya i was kind of pissy about the changes at 1st too [18:54] Nebadon Izumi: but after some contemplating it does make sense [18:54] Nebadon Izumi: even though were not fully utilizing its potential yet [18:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I find it really hard to read the example files now, with all that formatting in the comments [18:54] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, that's an argument for another day, really [18:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya well thats the good thing sorta [18:54] Nebadon Izumi: what that will lead to is a utility [18:55] Nebadon Izumi: we wont have to load the ini [18:55] Nebadon Izumi: its just not there yet [18:55] Nebadon Izumi: were sorta 1/2 down the road with no map right now [18:55] Nebadon Izumi: so ya its a bit confusing [18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, never any maps - so irritating [18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: oh well :) [18:55]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [18:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: we need a gps [18:55]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [18:56]  Nebadon Izumi: btw i spoke to Armin [18:56]  Hiro Protagonist: lol andReal Men (tm) dont ask for directions :p [18:56]  BlueWall Slade: in a way, I would like to see some method in the IRegionModule & friends to handle some ini ting [18:56]  Nebadon Izumi: he just IM'd me [18:56]  Nebadon Izumi: were gonna do somet testing later [18:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: that's cool [18:56]  BlueWall Slade: they are working on webkit ? [18:56]  Nebadon Izumi: [18:54] Armin Weatherwax: ok, back - its the coming plugin viewer so i fear it has to be soreted out somewhen in a safe environment when you have time [18:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: ooh cool - plugins! [18:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: now, all we need to do is remove this 6 month barrier.... [18:57]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [18:57] Bartholomew Kleiber: lol [18:57] BlueWall Slade: hehe [18:57] Nebadon Izumi: i know we just need to get everyone to donate 10,000$ each [18:57] Nebadon Izumi: get a few 1000 people [18:57] Nebadon Izumi: then we can buy LL [18:58]  Hiro Protagonist: heh [18:58] Hiro Protagonist: then we could burn it in a big bonfire amirite [18:58] Juicy Babii: And anyone that's looked at their code knows what a joyride THAT would be... [18:58]  Richardus Raymaker: 10.000 O$ right ? [18:58] Bartholomew Kleiber: LOL [18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: imprudence were very successful with their "donations for a computer" request recently [18:58] Juicy Babii: #ifdef MESSYBUGNUMBER666 [18:58] BlueWall Slade: let's wait 2 years and pick them up for US$300.00 [18:58] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya i actually read something the other day [18:59] Nebadon Izumi: that places LL's value at almost 1 billion dollars [18:59] Justin Clark-Casey: lol [18:59] Nebadon Izumi: crazy [18:59] Juicy Babii: that's 1 billion LINDEN dollars [18:59] Hiro Protagonist: talk about your overvalued 'stock' [18:59] Nebadon Izumi: heh [18:59] BlueWall Slade: virtual value [18:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya it wouldnt sell for that much [19:00] Hiro Protagonist: that must be what it is [19:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure who would be it right now - it feels like it needs so much investment [19:00] Hiro Protagonist: it was supposed to be $L but the webpage editor 'corrected' it [19:00]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [19:00] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps mesh will improve things [19:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear that's going to roll out on their beta grid tomorrow [19:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think so, i personally think LL is going to do alot of turn around [19:00] Nebadon Izumi: i dont expect it will be sold anytime soon [19:00] BlueWall Slade: we should have it pretty soon [19:00] BlueWall Slade: at least the caps [19:01] Nebadon Izumi: they are undoing alot of bad decisions right now [19:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: is that going to be pushed up into core opensim? [19:01] Justin Clark-Casey: do you know? [19:01] BlueWall Slade: I guess so [19:01]  Nebadon Izumi: which can easily be interpreted as "they are selling" too [19:01] Nebadon Izumi: M Linden just about ruined LL [19:01]  BlueWall Slade: the investors ruined it [19:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: they can try and primp it up as much as possible. [19:02] Nebadon Izumi: fact is though they still get almost 2 million users logging in every 60 days [19:02] paulie Flomar is Online [19:02] BlueWall Slade: yeah [19:02] Nebadon Izumi: and there are crap loads of people out there who never even heard of Second Life [19:03] Penny Lane: Who cares who ruined step 1 on the VW ladder. Just step over it, there's a hell of a lot of other steps before we reach the top :P [19:03] BlueWall Slade: that is our market [19:03] Nebadon Izumi: i bet if you just go out and randomly ask people "do you know what second life is" [19:03] Nebadon Izumi: iu bet you would get maybe 1 in 20 people who do [19:03]  Nebadon Izumi: if that [19:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. I just think technology simply isn't mature yet [19:03] Lalinda Perhaps is Online [19:03] BlueWall Slade: the thml5 / webgl wil probably help us a lot [19:03] Penny Lane: It's just step 1. [19:04] paulie Flomar: websockets ftw! [19:04] BlueWall Slade: html5 [19:04] Justin Clark-Casey: the road to hell :) [19:04]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya people need to get on better hardware [19:04]  Hiro Protagonist: Paulie Flomar FTW! [19:04]  paulie Flomar: heh. thx. :) [19:04] Richardus Raymaker: html5 seems a privacy disaster [19:04] Nebadon Izumi: thats the problem the % of people in the world who actually own a computer [19:04] Nebadon Izumi: not a high # of that % can actually even run SL [19:04]  Juicy Babii: Blue Mars is gonna blow Second Life away (giggles) [19:04] Hiro Protagonist: thats gonna change [19:04] Hiro Protagonist: mark my words [19:05] paulie Flomar: Btw, IE is planning to be the only browse which doesnt support websockets, instead developing a broken, proprietary Microsoft solution. :) [19:05] Richardus Raymaker: with lag juicy ? [19:05]  Hiro Protagonist: LOL Juicy you are bonfied trolbait :p [19:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think it is improving, but to enlarge that audience things have to stay at a fairly pimitive level graphically [19:05]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its gonna blow SL away when it implodes [19:05]  Bartholomew Kleiber: I wonder how well (or not) blue mars is .... [19:05]  paulie Flomar: BlueMars is nice, but it feels like another closed world to me. I canyt do that again. [19:05]  paulie Flomar: The future is open. [19:05]  Nebadon Izumi: ya Bluemars is the most boring thing ever [19:05]  Nebadon Izumi: log in walk around log out [19:05]  Nebadon Izumi: thats bluemars [19:05]  Juicy Babii: I would even use the word 'terrible' [19:05]  Penny Lane: Here's the virtual world I want to build. I don't think we're quite there yet. :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_%28The_Culture%29 [19:06] Bartholomew Kleiber: OMG Iain Banks - my favourite writer .... [19:06] Penny Lane: \o/ [19:06] Nebadon Izumi: heh Adam was talking about that long while ago Penny [19:06] paulie Flomar: :) [19:06]  Hiro Protagonist: LOVE it [19:06]  Penny Lane: Adam++ :-) [19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: what, going out into space and building a giant ring encircling the earth>? [19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ? [19:07] Nebadon Izumi: well making sims that conform to that shape [19:07] Xan Ting: Hiro where are you? I can here you but not see you [19:07] Hiro Protagonist: I'm here, yes [19:07] Richardus Raymaker: and what if the wormhole sim crash ? :P [19:07] Hiro Protagonist: right here by Juicy, more or less [19:07] Xan Ting: ahh upstairs ... sorry :) [19:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I think we're going to have the usual summer ttime confusion next week, btw [19:08]  Nebadon Izumi: Niven Ring [19:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: us clocks go forward next week, right? [19:08]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm [19:08]  Nebadon Izumi: oh man really [19:08]  Nebadon Izumi: hopefully not before sunday [19:08]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [19:08]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont even freakin know [19:09]  Penny Lane: Knowing there's such a gulf between the SL model and what's needed to make VWs really capable of satisfying our imagination, it really doesn't bother me what crappy SL does or doesn't do. :P [19:09]  BlueWall Slade: I don't either [19:09]  BlueWall Slade: I dont' ahve a schedule anymore [19:09]  Nebadon Izumi: picked the wrong week to stop sniffin glue [19:09]  Penny Lane: lol [19:09]  Bartholomew Kleiber: lol [19:09]  BlueWall Slade: it just seems like they keep shaving seconds off every day [19:09] BlueWall Slade: haa [19:10] Bartholomew Kleiber: 'Airplane'' addict [19:10] Justin Clark-Casey: oh hold on, looks like us time changes on sunday nov 7 [19:10] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool [19:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya we moved it 2 weeks [19:10] Nebadon Izumi: now i think about it [19:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: european daylight savings ends on sunday 31 October so that's when the confusio nwill start [19:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ok [19:11]  BlueWall Slade: the candy and costume companies lobbied for that here, I guess [19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, in the past you hadit before ours. [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: heh [19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: now it's after instead [19:11] Richardus Raymaker: wintertime here 31 october [19:12] Justin Clark-Casey: there's a good graphical display here -> http://www.daylight-savings-time.info/ [19:12] Justin Clark-Casey: or better http://www.daylight-savings-time.info/view/USp/UK/2010/h2/ [19:12] paulie Flomar: Damn SUN! Quit comin in my window and wipin out my monitor when Im tryin to enjoy my VIRTUAL WORLD! [19:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ha [19:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I better go back to work. Good luck with the switchover on osgrid [19:13] Nebadon Izumi: thanks Justin [19:13] paulie Flomar: .7 ftw!! [19:13] Richardus Raymaker: sun or SUN :O [19:13] BlueWall Slade: see ya JCC [19:13] Richardus Raymaker: bye jcc [19:13] Bartholomew Kleiber: bye [19:13] BlueWall Slade: I have to run too - see what is up in the SQLite [19:13] paulie Flomar: cyas, BW. [19:13] Nebadon Izumi: later BlueWall [19:13] paulie Flomar: bye, JCC. [19:13] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming guys [19:13] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah - urgh [19:14] BlueWall Slade: see you guys next wekk on the new improved OSG :) [19:14]  Justin Clark-Casey waves [19:14]  Adelle Fitzgerald: bye Justin, Bluewall [19:14]  Bartholomew Kleiber: bye, too [19:14]  Adelle Fitzgerald: im gonna head out too, bye all