Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05

[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: so whats new  and exciting in  Opensim this week? [11:13] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: :_) [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Robert just pushed a few updates to Bullet [11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes. Robert just pushed some raycasting changes to BulletSim. [11:14] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: @ Gavin / new updates to Bullet / can you elaborate ? [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: noting more than Andrew said. I noticed just before we started [11:15] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: :_) [11:18] George Equus: what you get from pages around the world and OSGrid servers that matters... plenty of bottle necks on the way [11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I also have a pending fix for a bug that only occurs when trying to start a region with XEngine disabled. [11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: BTW, the updates made to BS by Robert also includes an update to a newer version of Buillet for macOS. [11:22] Ubit Umarov: and thats on a working branch... [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what commit has the macOS udate? [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is one from 2017-08-18 19:44 that I built [11:23] Ubit Umarov: err or master already [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The macOS reference in the changelog is from Aug. 18. An update to 2.86 of Bullet. [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, so I also need to rebuild that for the latest changes [11:24] Ubit Umarov: yeap all on master [11:24] Ubit Umarov: there goes master being on bugs fix more :) [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Care to say that again in English, Ubit? :P [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm having trouble parsing that last statement. [11:25] Ubit Umarov: nahh not now [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have also rebuilt libopenjpeg-dotnet-2-1.5.0-dotnet-1.dylib Universal (both 32 and 64 bit) and I'll post it to Mantis tomorrow as it is stable [11:26] Ubit Umarov: just the usual.. we are waiting for bug reports to release postfixes [11:26] Ubit Umarov: not anymore :p [11:28] Ubit Umarov: seems robert did not update dlls for mac [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: macOS does not use dlls [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at least not for this [11:29] Ubit Umarov: blabla semantics [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not at all ;-) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:30] Ubit Umarov: they are libraries.. they are dynamic... semantics [11:30] Ubit Umarov: dylib.. bahh [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thank you! :-) [11:31] Ubit Umarov: pure semantics :p [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the point is that the end user running macOS does not know what a dll is, as it does not exist on their system [11:32] Ubit Umarov: i was talking mainly to you.. P [11:32] Ubit Umarov: not many here use mac [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was talking to those reading the log also :-) [11:33] Ubit Umarov: well you need ask robert the details [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I will [11:36] Arielle Popstar: whats this  mean: frozen avatars should not do local teleports. Possible none should not be allowed, but that may be abusive [11:36] Arielle Popstar: the double  negative  notwithstanding [11:37] Ubit Umarov: guess means what it says [11:37] Ubit Umarov: yeap a extra not there [11:37] Arielle Popstar: why would the avatar  be frozen? [11:38] George Equus: Fear maybe? Mice on the floor? [11:38] Arielle Popstar: ;)\ [11:38] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: lol [11:38] Ubit Umarov: because someone did freeze it ? [11:38] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: a mini ice age effecting only that avatar ??? [11:39] Ubit Umarov: you are really asking that ? [11:39] Arielle Popstar: yes [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you would usually freeze an intruder / griefer / copybotter [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or something like that [11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeap [11:40] Ubit Umarov: not sure we do block local chat on that [11:40] Arielle Popstar: ok so not  frozen because  console  is  busy  with other  things [11:40] George Equus: Didn't know you could do such a thing [11:40] Ubit Umarov: Arielle  its a standard viewer comand [11:40] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: nor did I George [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a deliberate action from a parcel owner [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be frozen due to a previously failed TP [11:40] Arielle Popstar: for a  grid  or region  god [11:41] Arielle Popstar: yes Andrew [11:41] Arielle Popstar: thats why i was  asking [11:41] George Equus: Ahh  ok  so there is a command for it when on your own region/parcel only [11:41] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Freeze [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some viewer have it on the avatar drop down menu [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kokua does (should have) [11:42] Ubit Umarov: seen it on all [11:42] George Equus: Just checked, not in FS here anyway [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you don't have the privs here George [11:43] George Equus: Precisely, need to be "god" is to say must be on my own regions? [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think your own land is sufficient [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: I am just remembering that freezing an avatar was partly useful in dealing with griefers so they had to stay while you had a talk with them about their behaviour.. [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as is ejecting someone from your land [11:44] Arielle Popstar: i have  Freeze  in my  FS [11:44] George Equus: Right, OK [11:44] Arielle Popstar: was  going  to try  Ubit  :) [11:45] Ubit Umarov: well that commit was just bc frozen avatars could do local tps.. not a nice feature [11:45] Arielle Popstar: anyone   want to be  guinnea  pig? [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: give him a sweater first [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:45] George Equus: hehe [11:45] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Works also on group managed land where you have group powers for that. [11:46] Ubit Umarov: ( you should know that your freeze may not work, but my eject will :p ) [11:46] Arielle Popstar: lol\ [11:46] Arielle Popstar: you sure   it being  Paela's  version ? :p [11:47] Ubit Umarov: hmm just remembered another thing that should be blocked.. need to check [11:48] Ubit Umarov: not sure why .. some people didn't knew freeze was there :p [11:49] Arielle Popstar: well i was  just  curious  as  to the  context  of the freeze  as  it  wasnt  specified [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: AFAIK it does not work in SL [11:50] Arielle Popstar: freezes happen  without  being  done intentionally [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is a hang Arielle :-)) [11:50] Ubit Umarov: it is not the purpose of commits messages to teach [11:51] Ubit Umarov: they are for ppl that do know the code, not for those that don't even know the avaiable operations [11:51] Arielle Popstar: theior purpose is to be clear  as to the intent of their  design [11:52] Arielle Popstar: so future coders understand  what was intended [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the freeze part was clear enough, the end was a bit more cryptic [11:53] Ubit Umarov: its just about non local tps [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Those were some examples of the better commit messages from Ubit. :) Sometimes you have very little idea about the commit from the message and need to look at the code change to figure it out. [11:53] Ubit Umarov: anyone has the right to leave the region.. [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well this is the most relevant issue to discuss now? [11:55] Arielle Popstar: heard from  a coder  outside of  core that they managed  to fix  the loopback issue  with  4 lines of code  that registered  a region  with both its  internal and external IP [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour. Anything else for todays meeting? [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there a link to the code? [11:56] Arielle Popstar: no [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Are they planning to release the changes? [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: stinky no linky [11:57] Arielle Popstar: i dont  rightly  know  Andrew [11:57] Arielle Popstar: i mention  in case they dont [11:57] Ubit Umarov: i heard pigs can fly.. but never seen one.. whatever [11:57] Arielle Popstar: Pink floyd   had  one [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and that record is hard to come by [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, if they don't knowing that someone claims to have fixed the problem won't help. We would need to know who it was that fixed it. [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, If you can contact the person ask them to make the changes available. [11:58] Arielle Popstar: well assume it  cant be  too difficult  as  it would be in the area  where there  region's  IP  is  registered [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are you talking about editing Regions.ini [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as was discussed on G+? [12:00] Arielle Popstar: no [12:00] Arielle Popstar: apparently in the  code itself [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, but if it is not aavailable, for all practical purposes it does not exist [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Exactly. [12:01] Arielle Popstar: the point is it  is possible [12:01] Arielle Popstar: what prevents  a  region  from being registered   with both IP's? [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that depends entirely on the routing setup, the number of regions and hosts etc etc [12:02] Ubit Umarov: there is a rule.. or few.. [12:03] Ubit Umarov: no information about an internal net should get out.. [12:03] Ubit Umarov: intranet ips are that.. intranet ips [12:03] Ubit Umarov: etc [12:04] Arielle Popstar: assumes the registration  is  with the robust [12:04] Arielle Popstar: which would  be internal [12:04] Arielle Popstar: unless on different netowrks [12:05] Ubit Umarov: that could be improved viewer side [12:06] Ubit Umarov: Interesting discussion ? hmm standards are low today :p [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I want to head out as i have some things I need to do. Any last minute item(s)? [12:07] Arielle Popstar: loopback is extremly  interesting to those  who pay  out monthly  because  they cant  run at  home [12:08] Arielle Popstar: or the thousands in past  who  walked  away  from Opensim because  of that  bug [12:09] Arielle Popstar: here is  an issue  someone  just told me  about too [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. It is you, JayR that is coming up as Unknown.UserUPUUI [12:09] Arielle Popstar: region owners can play with the attachments of other people [12:09] Arielle Popstar: i see the same andrew [12:09] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: @Arielle / yes the loopback issue is a major hurdle / would be nice to know more about when it will be implemented into the code [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: very strange. Unknown user in chat but the name shows in the text above the avatar. [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The loopback issue is of course interesting to get fixed, but it does not help if someone sits on the solution. [12:10] Arielle Popstar: only people  it  doesnt seem to matter to is  core devs  :p [12:10] Ubit Umarov: fear standalones at home will have more issues in future [12:10] Ubit Umarov: industry never liked home servers [12:10] Ubit Umarov: and.. fear it will get worse [12:10] Ubit Umarov: ( loopback is already a intentional issue ) [12:11] Arielle Popstar: then developers  need  to code around  it [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The 4096 TP limit was thought to be too hard a bug to fix until someone finally did fix it without the amount of work it was generally thought it would take to fix. [12:11] Arielle Popstar: exactly Andrew [12:11] Arielle Popstar: but again  fixed  by outside  core [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes core people have been known to think a problem was difficult to fix. Someone from outside, or with less knowledge of the code, doesn't know enough to let that stop them from trying. [12:12] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: lol :_) [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I know I added a missing feature that I was told would require much more work to fix than I found it took. [12:13] Ubit Umarov: well with that, the conclusion is that we possible we should dissolve core [12:13] Ubit Umarov: it all outside core do it better [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: no, it just takes someone who has the itch to add/fix something. [12:14] Arielle Popstar: not better but  willing to  prioritize it as an issue [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why don't you go, girl and dig up the 4 lines of code? [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the discussion is idiotic [12:14] Arielle Popstar: rather then saying "oh well  sucks  to be a home user" [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Core members are usually dealing with bigger issues. [12:14] Ubit Umarov: and last time i looked you where Core. Andrews.. amasing how in meetings like this you pretend not to be [12:15] Ubit Umarov: you always talk about the them. the core... [12:15] Ubit Umarov: bahh [12:15] Ubit Umarov: have fun ppl [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know the code like you and Mel do.