Chat log from the meeting on 2020-03-17

[11:06] Director.Virtualtowns @209.250.6.68:8002: just shared with Ubit.. I'm looking for a white label host provider.. for mental health support... critical need .. would appreciate any suggestions of reputable businesses

[11:07] Kayaker Magic: What does "white label" mean?

[11:07] Director.Virtualtowns @209.250.6.68:8002: the company doesn't list their name on the viewer or url

[11:08] Director.Virtualtowns @209.250.6.68:8002: it would be my business name for my clients

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: yeah some do offer those services

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: not sure if kitely does not show their brand always, but you can ask ( and negociate )

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: told about digiworld...

[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, I was about to suggest Kitey who has jumped through all sorts of privacy hoops to support schools. You might talk to them.

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: anyone remembers more doing full grid housing and managent ( in short notice? )

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah in im i did mentioned digi and kitely already :)

[11:10] Director will check with Kitely -- their organizations feature will probably suit her.

[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew

[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Sorry I'm late. Had some family stuff going on.

[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Now my cat is calling for me to have play time. :P

[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: You have to reset the cat's clock

[11:14] Kayaker Magic: Gavin: Modee here has been using RenderDynamicLOD on her viewer and getting complaints that it laggs other users on the same region. Is that possible?

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, the cat often starts meowing for me the moment I sit down at my computer.

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: (duuhh my stream is broken again)

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeah explain yr cat, summer time change

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: i almost forgot that again today

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: silly usa.. not following our rules :p

[11:15] Modee Parlez: europe 29th :(

[11:16] Ubit Umarov: RenderDynamicLOD ??

[11:17] Modee Parlez: Yes

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: don't remember that option :)

[11:17] Modee Parlez: you can set that in Advanced menu

[11:17] Modee Parlez: Here is the problem

[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Damn colonials can't even get the time right, Ubit

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: but anything that increases the level of detail at a particular distance will force the download of higher rez textures and meshes

[11:18] Modee Parlez: Some others and me build vintage battle ships to battle with

[11:18] Modee Parlez: so with that setting we can import low mesh buty still see it good

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: Beq from firestorm did blog about no one should mess with viewers default LOD settings

[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: If it is a setting available to the user you just know someone is going to mess with it.

[11:19] Modee Parlez: Well I didn't experience any down sides

[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did it even make a difference if it was on or off?

[11:20] Modee Parlez: if i have to choose between that or a 300 prim ship! what will lag most ?

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: don't see it on fs

[11:20] Modee Parlez: go Advanced menu

[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I couldn't find it in FS either.

[11:21] Modee Parlez: show debug settings

[11:21] Modee Parlez: RenderDynamicLOD

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: ahh thats debug settings not menus :p

[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: That's what I was about to say.

[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it exist in firestorms pipeline.cpp

[11:21] Modee Parlez: then set to False

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: well i have by default true

[11:22] Modee Parlez: you will see how mesh pops up better

[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: There are going to be entries in Debug settings that aren't generally meant to be changed by a user.

[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and in floater_phototools.xml

[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and settings.xml

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: not sure what that really does

[11:22] Director.Virtualtowns @209.250.6.68:8002: thank all of you for trying to help...

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: and sounds contrary to beq's ideas

[11:23] Modee Parlez: ?

[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Director, that's what these meetings are for.

[11:23] Modee Parlez: well there is little info about this but surely boosts up the mesh look

[11:24] Ubit Umarov is offline.

[11:24] Modee Parlez: but then again a lot are rusted in their old ways

[11:24] Ubit Umarov is online.

[11:24] Kayaker Magic: It sounds like Ubit suggests it will force uploading the high rez textures, so ther is a bandwidth hit, but won't that be a one time event?

[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It does not see to do much at all except read and write the value

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: duhh pressed the wrong button

[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: :)

[11:25] Modee Parlez: whispers to kayaker " you said these were wise men and can't even push the right button ? "

[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks chuckles

[11:26] Kayaker Magic: LOL, did I say they were WISE?

[11:26] Modee Parlez: yes street wise

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: :p

[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is used in a function updateCameraDistanceRegion

[11:27] Modee Parlez: btw I am Modee, Kayakers nightmare hahah

[11:27] Kayaker Magic: WHAT?

[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and in computeLODDetail

[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: comment to the code is // We've got LOD in the profile, and in the twist. Use radius.

[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: don't know what that actually does

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: well about that optionm impact on region is only if that means on average more data to download

[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS does not use it at all

[11:28] Modee Parlez: Well when we see us i always have questions and then you loos eme on the second line of explanation :)

[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: llviewer does, and so does all the others more or less

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: rest is more stress on yr gpu

[11:29] Modee Parlez: translate for me please

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: you knw what lod is right?

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: level of detail..

[11:29] Modee Parlez: yes

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: there are 4 levels for mesh, not sure abotu textures

[11:30] Modee Parlez: ok

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: far things still visible use the lowest resolution one

[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might actually handle detial as you move the cam around in the scene

[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: independent of the avatar

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: so less things to get from regions ( mesh at least) and less things for gpu to render

[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but apart from that it does not do anything magically to your mesh resolution

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: thats decided based on object aparent size ( from size and distance to camera )

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: duhhh ?=??

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: it changes the all mesh resolution

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: So it may make your GPU work harder, but does it lag the server?

[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: far things we never get with full resolution

[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they get better resolution if you cam around the scene

[11:33] Modee Parlez: ok they lost me already

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: no kayaker.. well there are a few little side effects on http, but hope to iron those out more

[11:33] Kayaker Magic: So setting RenderDynamicLOD will not create lag for other users in the same region?

[11:33] Modee Parlez: is that the viewer LOD setting ?

[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a viwer side setting, so it is local to your macine

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: it is LOD transistion settings

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: ie how the viewer decides what LOD to use

[11:34] Modee Parlez: Make notes Kayaker so you can explain later :)

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: for a particular camera distance and object size

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: oh yr mask is better than mine

[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Modee, did you actually see any visible difference when the setting was turned on and off?

[11:35] Ubit Umarov: well i did ask Beq about that option.. but afk as usual :)

[11:35] Modee Parlez: sspeaking of size What is Object radius ?

[11:35] Modee Parlez: yes

[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and what did you see?

[11:35] Modee Parlez: ok you see the handles on the beer taps

[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: well one should not mess with those options much

[11:36] Modee Parlez: from where i sit they are broken

[11:36] Modee Parlez: but when i use the setting they look perfect

[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probalby because your rendervolodfactor is set different

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: good mesh builders tune their LODs for the default viewers settings

[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or object mesh detail in graphics prefs is set low or med

[11:37] Modee Parlez: my viewer LOD is 2

[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: explains it

[11:37] Kayaker Magic: The beer taps are "broken" for me also, rendered at a low LOD unless I zoom into them (I have not changed RenderDynamicLOD)

[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: set it to 4 and see the difference

[11:38] Modee Parlez: yes i see now but won't that slow me ?

[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no

[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that mesh probalby don't have proper LOD

[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it will send the high rez version anyway

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: well bottom line.. don't mess with viewer LODs settings defaults

[11:39] Modee Parlez: mmm ok well i must admit there is a big difference between open grids and sL

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: not really

[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most mesh in Opensim is made without proper LOD, like maybe the majority of new mesh items in SL have

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: just because mesh uploads are free on most open grids, you get more junk

[11:40] Modee Parlez: in land impact there is

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: we don't use land impact metric, only show some numbers for now

[11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have seen the same LOD problem in SL

[11:41] Modee Parlez: Ok well I am a bit wiser now too

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: btw i did change the download cost estimation

[11:41] Kayaker Magic: Land impact calculation is different everywhere, it is just a suggestion.

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: no idea why viewers that those LOD's tunning

[11:42] Ubit Umarov: it is a silly thing

[11:42] Modee Parlez: So about that viewer DayTurn

[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes?

[11:42] Ubit Umarov: thats the same on all viewers

[11:43] Modee Parlez: I tried it for Discovery grid but it sort of froze me

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: damm beq is afk i don't remember her blog post abotu LODs

[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have never tested it there

[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so IDK if it works¨

[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I could swear I tested Dayturn on Discovery and it just worked...

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: http://beqsother.blogspot.com/2018/01/for-lods-sake-stop.html

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: found it

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: take a look to that

[11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'd use Dayturn more but I need the pre-processor feature in FS

[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I know some people say it just refuse to work with a grid, but it is probalby more a Windows driver issue than anything else

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: it explains LOD in viewers context, and why ppl should not mess with that

[11:45] Modee Parlez: gonna bookmark that ty Ubit :)

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: she has more nice stuff there

[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit, stop spouting SL propaganda

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: duhhh thats SL and opensim

[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Beq write that because she had to justify to her user base why she was foirced to comply with SL setting

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: No she did not

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL would not allow LOD higher than 4 and FS was foced to comply

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes she did

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: NO she did NOT

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: that is valid for sl and opensim

[11:46] Modee Parlez: are you gonna fight ? " sits back and watches "

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: she did

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: and a result of several tradeoffs

[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Watching the fights is half the fun of the Dev meetings!

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't disagree that it's not a good reason to do so, but most content in Opensim is NOT turned for it

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-))

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: thats opensim "creators" problem

[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is opensim users problem

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: that blog and others help explain the things

[11:48] Modee Parlez: should be everyones problem

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: not bc SL users are any better

[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as their existing contetn - many years old, does not render properly any more

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: jsut they pay for uploads

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: and mistakes cost them a lot

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: content* even

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: that is the only diference

[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I think I need to find a black and white striped jersey I can wear when I need to be referee ;)

[11:49] Modee Parlez: well there is their beta grid

[11:49] Kayaker Magic: LOL

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: viewer mechaniscs, tech issues are the same

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: at least for now

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the content between SL and opensim is not the same

[11:51] Kayaker Magic: Some of us are willing to allow the upload mesh dialog to decimate our mesh for lower LOD,

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: your still stuck on that?

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: virtually no content at all in OS is uploaded with proper lods

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: yes.. we don't have good builders

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you ever try to make a mesh with proper lods?

[11:52] Modee Parlez: well I try to upload as good as I can

[11:52] Kayaker Magic: I hear it is possible for creators to make special versions of their mesh for each LOL

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: that means nothing to the tech issue

[11:52] Kayaker Magic: I don't know how to do that, do you do that Modee?

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it means something to the user experience

[11:52] Modee Parlez: Kayaker will testify that my stuff is good :)

[11:52] Modee Parlez: won't you ?

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: and telling ppl to mess with viewer lods settings only makes that worse

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: virtually any opensim scene looks like shit at LOD 2

[11:52] Modee Parlez: Pokes him

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: all will endup setting to to highest level to hide bad meshes

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: so.. do not mess with viewer LOD settings..

[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Use of decimate doesn't always do what you want without negatively impacting the model. It depends on how high the initial triangle count is vs. the max allowed.

[11:53] Modee Parlez: well that is why i am here to hear it from " specialists "

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: make proper meshes to match those defaults

[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: show the way Ubit

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: FS actually as nice tools to help on that

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: make a proper demo mesh for the next meewting

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: that all viewers should add

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless you have Maya it is hard

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: duhhh

[11:54] Modee Parlez: I use blender

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: a lot of mesh tools are good and usable

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: blender is excelent, once you learn to use it

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: show they way ;-)

[11:55] Modee Parlez: http://loosecannonshipyard.com/

[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I've used Blender's decimate tool but that only gets me so far. There is also meshlab but I haven't tried it.

[11:55] Modee Parlez: here you can see some of my stuff

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well FS now, on edit, has a tool to show lod details

[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: You really should not use decimate for lower level LOD + usually you have to make separate textures too

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: and you can play with that without the need to fly around to check them

[11:56] Modee Parlez: I do that already

[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I need decimate just to get the tri count down to near the max allowed value. :)

[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-))

[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Did you have a question for me Kayaker?

[11:59] Kayaker Magic: I was breaking the ice for Modee, to ask her question.

[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all right

[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess I have to make an account on discovery and see how the viewer does

[11:59] Modee Parlez: Well sailors i need to go sadly :( Jugzzz all and ty again :)

[12:00] Kayaker Magic: This is the posted meeting end time....

[12:00] Modee Parlez: wavessssssssssssss

[12:00] Kayaker Magic: and beaches

[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye

[12:00] Kayaker Magic: bye!

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: bte that render oprtion should be off

[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it defaults to false, so for most it is off

[12:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye everyone

[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye Selby

[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I doubt anyone had heard of it before today :_)

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: YACKK

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: NO

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: should be always ON

[12:02] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, I'll go try Dayturn on Discovery Grid. But I expect it to work there.

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: lol

[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: tc, Modee. Thanks for coming.

[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd say bye to Selby but he is already gone.

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: as usual

[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sorry, it is defaul on

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: yes and should always ne on

[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then top talking about it as people might be tempted to turn it off :-))

[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: stop*

[12:04] Kayaker Magic: Hopefully they will read Beq's log. Good thing you found the link!

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: well i misread Beq :)

[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll give Ubit the last word. I saw you have been busy on code changes related to Vivox. Where do things stand on voice?

[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that link is old news

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: seems off killes the LOD engine totally

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: bad thing

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: old news but people keep messing with that

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: so... keep it on always... don't mess woth those LODs tunning settings

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: so content can be made and look similar on dif viewers etc

[12:07] Kayaker Magic: Got it. Now tell us about voice Ubit

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: wel voice is not good

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: vivox did refuse me any information

[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: How do they expect people to use their voice system if they aren't providing updated information on using their API?

[12:09] Kayaker Magic: They are donating it to OpenSim, so may feel we don't deserve support?

[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is unsupported

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: thing is that we are on a obsolete vivox service

[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I can understand them not supporting it but there should be basic info provided on how to use it.

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: one reason they gave me to deny access to current information was that.. it does not aplly for opensim ( or sl ??)

[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unsupported means unsupported

[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is still a bit unclear to me what you actually try to acheive Ubit?

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: fix errors out current imp has

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: our..

[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: be more specific perhaps?

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: their answer to that was, you don'0t need to fix those errors, things work anyway

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: bahh

[12:12] Kayaker Magic: bahh!

[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what errors did you try to fix?

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: and had the https problem

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: new fs does https, if i tell the port also

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: 6.0 seems to fail https

[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: We can only hope this provides more incentive for the people working on EchoVoice to get it working soon.

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: ( daytunr also does https as fs 6.3 )

[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we use the same lib versions

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: and there maybe a issue with payed accounts

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: mel told they need https... can't tell

[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does anyone in ioensim actually have paid accounts?

[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: opensim*

[12:15] Ubit Umarov: and hard to use when viewers failt to connect

[12:15] Ubit Umarov: yes a few have

[12:15] Ubit Umarov: some since before the free accounts option

[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ic

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: well a grid induced FS to use older slvoice version for opensim

[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at quarter past the hour. Time to wrap it up for this week unless anyone has any last comments.

[12:17] Ubit Umarov: while as dayturn shows, 4.10 works fine

[12:17] Ubit Umarov: at least on the free accounts

[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS and Dayturn use the same libs

[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but there are big diffs in the viewer code

[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS use the coprocedure version of the voice code that LL use,

[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have basically left it untouched, so it use curl

[12:18] Kayaker Magic: Hmm, this chair doesn't have the new unsit code...

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: no fs does not use the same version here

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: they use 4.6

[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, ok

[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, it is a sign you need to entertain us. :)

[12:19] Kayaker Magic: this one does.

[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because of Linux support?

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: im hacked my 6.3.6 to use 4.10

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: and works fine

[12:19] Kayaker Magic: I will help the meeting come to an end by leaving now.

[12:19] Kayaker Magic: Got things to do!

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: no it was because a jira filed by a 0.82. grid

[12:20] Kayaker Magic: Thanks all, GREAT meeting!

[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. Thanks for being here.

[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the thing is that the 4.10 version was nor released when FS built the last OS version

[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so that's why they use 4.6

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: 6.3 uses 4.6 for opensim

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: as a special folder with it

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: osvoice

[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is waht I said

[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the build date for the OS version?

[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: about March 2019?

[12:21] Ubit Umarov: bc they where told that opensim does not work with 4.10

[12:21] Ubit Umarov: of course now they have the macs issue

[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Are you two still going? I should do the official end of the meeting.

[12:21] Ubit Umarov: no 4.6 aproved for macs

[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the 4.10 lib were released last summer

[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: That's it for today. Thank you for coming. See you again next week.