Chat log from the meeting on 2021-05-04

 [11:04] Pius Noel: heloo everybody [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:04] Ubit Umarov: hi andrew [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Pius, Andrew [11:05] Ubit Umarov: hi pius [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I forgot I had to reboot my computer as there was a recent update to the video drivers on my machine. [11:05] Ubit Umarov: and you do want the latest bugs? [11:06] Bill Blight: Moved the region to a new server so let me know if anybody has any issues [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie. [11:06] Ubit Umarov: ohh ty bill [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit: :) [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Jamie [11:06] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody [11:06] Bill Blight: new server has a bit more resources and bandwidth ... so should be much better [11:06] Ubit Umarov: cool [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Most of the time the changes don't affect me as they are related to support for newer cards. [11:07] Pius Noel: I could not connect from SandBox III at first. I had to go home and try again [11:07] Ubit Umarov: thats basilcy for all [11:07] Ubit Umarov: and some are jsut for new gpus and special games [11:07] Bill Blight: well some hurdles to be expected as some regions may have the old address cached [11:08] Ubit Umarov: hmm lbsa new about it [11:08] Ubit Umarov: knew... [11:08] Bill Blight: well that's good [11:08] Ubit Umarov: hmm lps still shows things?? [11:09] Ubit Umarov: had idea i had killed it [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: What metric replaces LPS? [11:09] Ubit Umarov: none.. we had no lps anyways [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Whatever it was it had some relation to script activity. [11:10] Ubit Umarov: lines per second guess was from first sl script engine [11:11] Ubit Umarov: i know at least a coder that puts all the script on one line [11:11] Ubit Umarov: so wrong stats :) [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. It was more a functions per second type metric. [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: No news on the code front this week as there have been no changes pushed since the 22 of last month. [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone else have any news to report? [11:14] Sim Stats shouts: This Region Running, OpenSim 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev, git 2021-04-22T13:33:00+01:00, Mono 6.12.0.139  (Unix/Mono) with YEngine, and ubODE Physics [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Sim Stats had something to say. :) [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: It should probably say "This Region is running" instead of "This Region Running". :) [11:15] Ubit Umarov: yeah was more functions.. but only on same, not all [11:15] Ubit Umarov: so.. not a full metric [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: No, it wasn't. [11:15] Ubit Umarov: adn removed from viewers also [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I only saw the number when I was looking at the WebStats output. [11:16] Ubit Umarov: hmm seems someone changed a script here [11:16] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:18] Ubit Umarov: so another calm meeting ? [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: No one else has news this week. Any questions or problems? [11:18] Ubit Umarov: hmm no point talking abotu weater.. bill didn't change eep settings here [11:18] Pius Noel: nothing so far ;) [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL did something strange to their viewer repo: They created a new brnach with EEP completely stripped out. Not sure what they are up to [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: branch* [11:19] Ubit Umarov: (oops dont tell gavin.. i still didn't lest last dayturn.. ) [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, no [11:20] Ubit Umarov: hmm how did they striped eep? it is all over the render [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the comment said it had been a ery painful and manual process [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: very* [11:20] Ubit Umarov: i bet it was :) [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: If it was so hard to remove it does make one wonder what they are planning. [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly [11:22] Ubit Umarov: yeah pain == lots of $$ [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: How long has eep been around? I wouldn't think they would be trying to replace it with something else already. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they also posted a UI project viewer [11:22] Ubit Umarov: 2 years? [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure I think all the changes was great [11:23] Ubit Umarov: well they worked on it for ages.. [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the UI changes has been in the works almost longer than EEP [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Nothing in the change log associated with teh branch creation that provides any clue? [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and - voila - a nea AVATAR menu! [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: new* [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can't type today [11:24] Ubit Umarov: hmm i see a avatar menu there --^ [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Not really Andrew [11:24] Ubit Umarov: hmm there ^--- [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they had a Me menu [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. It will have to be a wait and see as to what they are going to do with that branch. [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now there is a Me and Avatar menu [11:25] Ubit Umarov: hmm see no Me [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in the LL viewer? [11:25] Ubit Umarov: fs [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am talking about the LL project vidwer [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewer [11:26] Ubit Umarov: oops [11:26] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)) [11:26] Ubit Umarov: well my ll viewer does have Me and not avatar [11:26] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they took 3 years to work out how to add the avatar menu [11:27] Ubit Umarov: didn't update? odd [11:27] Ubit Umarov: i didn't run it for ages [11:27] Ubit Umarov: Second Life Release 6.4.11.551711 (64bit) [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the release viewer never updates to a project viewer (I hope) [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: although they just had a fix where a new viewer install immediately updated itself to the next release candidate, which is a bit of an oops [11:29] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: AHh i know why lps shown things [11:30] Ubit Umarov: that index is wrong. [11:30] Ubit Umarov: it is actually index 2 region sleep time [11:30] Ubit Umarov: something wrong for ages [11:31] Ubit Umarov: [11:13:26] Bill Blight: "Script LPS: " + StringTruncate((string)llList2Float( Stats, STATS_SCRIPT_LPS ),7); <--- this index [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: There you go. [11:32] Bill Blight: missed that, was not my script originally thought I got all the oopsies [11:32] Ubit Umarov: that is why it looked so much like region sleep time.. it was sleep time LOL [11:32] Bill Blight: oh umm [11:33] Bill Blight: that is not the index that number is the truncate float [11:33] Ubit Umarov: STATS_SCRIPT_LPS [11:33] Bill Blight: STATS_SCRIPT_LPS  that is the index [11:33] Ubit Umarov: this index [11:33] Bill Blight: ok [11:33] Bill Blight: so the constant is borked [11:34] Ubit Umarov: yeah since ages [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be another reason for the LPS number to appear as being meaningless. [11:34] Ubit Umarov: tose lazy opensim devs.. gezzz [11:35] Ubit Umarov: and those.. [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:35] Ubit Umarov: well no one did complain either [11:35] Ubit Umarov: that kinda shows how ppl consider it useful.. [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I know I haven't pulled out an inworld stats monitor device in a long time. [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I wouldn't have noticed whether it reports the same info as in WebStats or not. [11:36] Ubit Umarov: well you had it in front of you all tuesdays :p [11:37] Ubit Umarov: had one :) [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't see it from where I'm sitting unless I cam in. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: excuses.. :P [11:37] Ubit Umarov: hihihi [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: From my normal camera position I only see the text over the text recorder box. [11:38] Ubit Umarov: well no point looking now.. Bill removed the line :) [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: If it isn't there it isn't a problem. ;) [11:39] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:39] Pius Noel: :) [11:39] Ubit Umarov: well no index contant for eps i think [11:39] Ubit Umarov: and several other stats [11:39] Pius Noel: and I just took a copy :) [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, which script engine is being used here? I see stats for memory used. I didn't think that worked in XEngine. Fixed in Y? [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, yes. It is YEngine that is reported. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: well why constants.. ppl can just read opensim sources :p [11:40] Ubit Umarov: that memory is full sim memory i think [11:41] Ubit Umarov: that guy.. Bill.. you know? may tell more... [11:41] Ubit Umarov: oops this Bill here ;) [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything else to talk about re: OS today or do we get to head out early? [11:43] Ubit Umarov: we need to respect meeting time [11:43] Ubit Umarov: or should.. [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: We get to twiddle our thumbs for about 15 minutes? :) [11:44] Ubit Umarov: wel we can all leave, but you :p [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:45] Ubit Umarov: gezz this index constants are a pain [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: You should make the code generate them automatically. [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:47] Ubit Umarov: code does not know it either [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Any one want to talk about any projects they are working on? [11:48] Pius Noel: not for now, [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure it is a project, but I updated my bgrid code to master minus EEP [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so as with the strange LL repo, it was a bit of manual work to get there [11:50] Pius Noel: why no EEP? [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it looks like shit [11:50] Bill Blight: that memory usage is for the whole sim [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok. [11:50] Bill Blight: not the script engine [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nobody likes it [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it performs badly too [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Does the function to get memory usage work in YEngine? In X it always reported 16k. [11:51] Bill Blight: EEP only looks like shit if you don't configure it [11:51] Bill Blight: looks super nice if you take a few minutes to configure it [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: users expect it to look good out of the box [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: You think someone would have made the defaults for EEP look ok. [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, exactly. You want to show off how good it is so it should look good out of the box. [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but more important, it is a frame rate killer and that implicates a lot of users in SL - perhaps not so much so in OS [11:54] Bill Blight: I only see a FPS drop with EEP on parcel/region crossings other than that they are pretty much the same as with windlight, the FPS drop is just a scare tactic used by people who hate it .. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: i only don't like stupid eep moon [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It is pretty real for all the laptop users who sit around logged into SL [11:54] Ubit Umarov: how they did broke it [11:54] Bill Blight: Just like when ubODE IS THE END ALL OF PHYSICS AND IS UNUSABLE [11:55] Bill Blight: and yENGINE sUCKS and is going to break everything [11:55] Ubit Umarov: typical :) [11:55] Bill Blight: everytime there is a change people think it is the end of the worlds [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the thing is with EEP they have stretched OpenGL 2.1 as far as it gets, and to move beyond that, it is back to the drawing board [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: The sun looks awfully large to the left of me. Almost like we are on a different planet. [11:55] Ubit Umarov: ohh and ubode will break all Avatars meshes [11:55] Ubit Umarov: that was the best :p [11:56] Pius Noel: about ubode.. what are the advantages over BulletSim? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: ahh and BOM is useless [11:56] Bill Blight: too many to list . other thand the fact there may be no more updates for Bulletsim ever [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: BOM... [11:57] Pius Noel: last week I started the first ubODE region in my grid [11:57] Bill Blight: what ubODE is only 4 years old now ... [11:57] Bill Blight: or is it 5 [11:57] Ubit Umarov: well it is more [11:57] Ubit Umarov: older that bullet [11:57] Ubit Umarov: but not at opensim.. [11:57] Bill Blight: right [11:57] Bill Blight: same with yEngine [11:57] Ubit Umarov: it was aurora physics engine [11:58] Ubit Umarov: well a version of it [11:58] Ubit Umarov: i remade it like 3 times :) [11:58] Bill Blight: faster collision response is one of the things I prefer from ubODE [11:59] Pius Noel: so far I'm quite happy with it [11:59] Ubit Umarov: wel no miracles [11:59] Ubit Umarov: but it does cover the SL physics model and features more than bullet [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with ubODE you bounce off the walls, hehe [11:59] Ubit Umarov: can even suicide with mouse stering.. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: steering even [12:00] Bill Blight: to paraphrase MisterBlue from IRC "Time to make ubODE the default physics engine" ... MisterBlue made BulletSim if you don't know ... [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how does that work? [12:00] Ubit Umarov: badly gavin.Hird [12:00] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just like teleporting to 0,0,0? [12:00] Ubit Umarov: but also bad at sl [12:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: must go -- Bye all [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye Selby [12:01] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc Selby. [12:01] Pius Noel: bye Selby [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: We made it through the hour. Any last comments before we wrap up todays meeting? [12:02] Pius Noel: no, thank you [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nah, I'm good [12:02] Ubit Umarov: well no idea what things ll with break more on eep [12:02] Ubit Umarov: as they did break the moon [12:03] Ubit Umarov: so far it looks on on FS ( except moon ) [12:03] Ubit Umarov: looks ok even [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Be well everyone. That will do it for today. [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.