Chat log from the meeting on 2013-09-03

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi is online. [11:03] Master Dubrovna: When do you think the switch to the new server will take place? [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it already has partially [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: all new uploads and about 21 million assets are already being served from new server [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: there is about another 51 million to convert which is like 95% done [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: were working on database portion now [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: not only are we changing hardware [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: we are moving from sras v1 to sras v2 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: which is like 1000% better [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: sras v1 was horrible [11:04] Master Dubrovna: Great! [11:05] Arielle Popstar: between versions? [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin [11:05] Arielle Popstar: whats the difwhats the diff.... [11:05] Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin [11:05] Inanna Beaumont: hi all :-) [11:06] Arielle Popstar: eek [11:06] Master Dubrovna: Hey Justin [11:06] Arielle Popstar: chat out of order [11:06] Kayaker Magic: dang, RL calls, I'll miss this meeting [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the difference in sras? [11:06] Arielle Popstar: yes [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sras v1 was written in Ruby on Rails [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: and runs inside of apache [11:06] Arielle Popstar: sras versions and 2 [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sras2 is pure ruby and runs standalone [11:06] Arielle Popstar: ahh [11:06] Arielle Popstar: no apache required [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: sras2 also does asset deduplication in a much more precise manner [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: and also allows us to gzip the assets [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: however gzipping will happen later [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: right now were just moving and converting the assets [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: the conversion and move are done [11:07] Arielle Popstar: will that work for windows? [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: now we just need to convert the database [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: which is happening as we speak [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: then its done [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: all with zero downtime :) [11:08] Master Dubrovna: More storage capacity for the future? [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the old server has 3.3gb free [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we really cut it close [11:08] Master Dubrovna: whoa [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: but thats srart. and thats not robust. but i understand from otehr chat that robust have some assets dub check to with new version [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the new server has 3.6tb free [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: before compression [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: 3.3GB ? [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks waves hello [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: 3.3GB ? [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: after compression should have like 4.5tb free [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: new databases? [11:09] Master Dubrovna: How is backups of the database done? [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes we really cut it close on the old server [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: actually at one point the old server ran out of space [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and i had to rig it up [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i ended up moving 12gb of assets to the root partition [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: and making symlinks [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: does robust 0.7.6 have some better assets system to ? [11:10] BlueWall Slade: xassets has de-duping [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: it feels like with 0.7.6 you need to learn 50% again :) [11:11] BlueWall Slade: Justin said he may make some changes in it yet. [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm doning an update to 076 now. What has changed that makes you think there is a lot to learn all over again? [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: yes,it will not be ready for use in 0.7.6 [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: oh.. hmmm [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: hope its not going to be painfull to migrate [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: or more precisely, it works now but I reserve the right to make changes without any migration path [11:12] BlueWall Slade: :D [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I have yet to completely figure that out. It's possible to ichain the dedpue asset ser vice with the old one [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: make sure you comment that in the ini file [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: so you can leave all assets in the old and they will get gradually put into the new over time [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: no shit richardus [11:12] BlueWall Slade: lol [11:13] Arielle Popstar: does gzip work on windows? [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: it has a huge red warning on startup [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: robust doesnt support gzipping assets [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I have yet to decide on how a final migration would be achieved [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and sras only runs in linux [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: When did the dedupe system go in to OS? [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: really? Why won't it run in windows or mac? [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: feels not before 0.7.7 i think [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: well it might [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but no one has tested it [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: prob about a year ago [11:13] Arielle Popstar: thats no good [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect the flat file storage might be problematic [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I would be very surprised if it does not work in windows and mac [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: esp. if its just ruby [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it might [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: but there is not gaurantee it will [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and i doubt coyled is going to test it ever on windows [11:14] BlueWall Slade: if it won't run in Windows, it's because "There's no place like home". [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: well [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: it also relies on a file called .srasrc [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: for configurations [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: there may be ways around that though [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: make the config file configurable [11:15] BlueWall Slade: it probably has a cross-platform configuration lib. [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: one would just create a .srasrc file in the right place, even if that's not what one is used to on windows [11:16] BlueWall Slade hasn't done Ruby before [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: might also be able to us cygwin to run it [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: extra useless load. gives me mono feelings and nightmares :O [11:17] Arielle Popstar watches the increase in difficulty rise [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: honestly [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: sras is not easy to use [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: it never will be [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: for most people what is in core is sufficient [11:18] Arielle Popstar: no other solutions that are cross platform? [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that's the idea of putting deduping in core [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: unless your running a grid like OSgrid, or Moses [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: you are wasting your time on sras [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe it's important for a large enough number of people that I'm prepared to spend my time developing and maintaing it [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I did a proof of concept of deduping in core some time ago. [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya I imagine all of the sras functionality will eventually be in core [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: well, the assets de0dub i go mis for a while [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: one of the big stumbling blocks of sras [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I don't thin kit will - it's simply makes everything too complex [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is none of the default assets are in it [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and getting them there is not so simple [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: so you really need to know what your doing if you plan on running sras [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Last time I tried SRAS it wanted a version of Ruby that I didn't have. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yes rvm makes that easy [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: with rvm you can run multiple versions of ruby [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: that definitely makes things a bit easier [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but its still much harder to setup than robust is [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Probably does. I don't really know much about Ruby. [11:20] BlueWall Slade: must be like virtualenv for python [11:22] Arielle Popstar: test [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: tes back [11:22] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have any topics they wanted to talk about this week ? [11:22] Arielle Popstar: ok, i am still here :) [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: I am a little distracted logging in my radegast avatars into CC grid on 2nd computer [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: How are the TP code changes coming along? [11:23] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         56f565b: 2013-08-29 16:54:13 -0400 (Unix/Mono) [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: pretty good, justin added a few more last night [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: to deal with being able to see chat for up to 10 seconds after you left a region [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: couple more things need to be ironed out [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: tp seems to work reasonably well with some caveats [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: like ending up at 200m when you tp [11:24] BlueWall Slade: we have default regions for HG now? [11:24] Arielle Popstar: oh gwt to see what people say about you after you leave....nice ;) [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you know what justin [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: oh thats betetr then 328564256829 meters [11:24] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Can you adjust the height of the landing spot with infohub? [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i just had a thought [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunately the trigger for this is not yet known [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you might have to click on prims [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: on the map [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't followed all the details of what is happening on TP's. Can you do a quick summary of the changes and the expected improvements? [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if your clicking where there is terrain only [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: it might not happen [11:25] BlueWall Slade: nice [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: I saw you were talking about me before I arrived :P [11:25] BlueWall Slade: yes Dahlia we were [11:25] BlueWall Slade: hahaha [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: diva made a bunch of changes which reduce the amount of messaging required but significant rearrange how teleporting is done [11:25] BlueWall Slade: plug your ears so we can finish [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: :( [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: A bunch more changes have been made to stablize it, but there are still some issues [11:26] Arielle Popstar: better then being ignored [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I actually rather about that will make a difference but worth a try I guess [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty. So this will also help reduce system load when a lot of TP's are happening and also make the TP process more efficient and possibly a little faster? [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: if anybody can actually give me a reproducible tets case that would help [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice. [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: the new process is much more in line with how sl does it, though probably not exactly still [11:27] BlueWall Slade: I saw it yesterday - was having a hard time with the avatar rezzing. [11:27] BlueWall Slade: but, I think that was when the assets server was down. [11:27] BlueWall Slade: that might be what was hosing my tp [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: it wouldn't susprise me if its's more likely to appear with certain kinds of network lag [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: or possib,ly with bulletsim rather than ode. I think that's a little less likely though still possible [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: a lot of stuff is still effectively on hold with trying to get conference stuff done and then a new release [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone had a chance to mess around with the mesh export functions in Singularity or Radegast? [11:32] Arielle Popstar: a bit [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/101558395514182710128/posts/fPYF4MgVKrH [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: here is some stuff i converted to mesh with radegast [11:33] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: I've played with it [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: cleaned up in blender [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: radegast ? [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: hmm [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:33] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: http://becunningandfulloftricks.com/2013/08/15/how-to-convert-a-prim-based-object-in-second-life-or-opensim-into-a-mesh-object-on-your-hard-drive-using-the-singularity-viewer/ [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: radegast preserves textures [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: sound like im running behind [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and reduces material [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so you dont have 8 million materials [11:34] Neo Cortex: cool, have to try that [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it matches any materials that are 100% the same [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and reduces them down [11:34] BlueWall Slade: nice [11:34] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: wow, very cool [11:34] Arielle Popstar: that isnt in Singularity? [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its in the latest Nightly [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: wich version i use 2.12.1354 [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: no its not in Singularity yet [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but will be at some point in near future [11:35] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: Latif Khalifa said it's coming to Singularity [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: thats nice nebadon. that way you can at leats get right demension sinto blender to rebuild / shape it or join [11:35] Pathfinder.Lester @pathlandia.dlinkddns.com:9000: see note from Latif at the bottom of my blog post [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ive been going nuts converting stuff [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i have a bunch of stuff on display at the OSCC OSgrid booth i made [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: Encitra booth too [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: the Cathedral is there [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: so you rebuilding the sim now ? lol [11:37] Neo Cortex: actually i am looking for some great looking mesh stuff to set up a presentation sim for potential Oculus Rift users, is there something great looking and fast rezzing amongst it? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: Neo Cortex, check out "Reticulation" [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: here on OSgrid [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats my mesh sandbox [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/reticulation_005.png [11:38] Neo Cortex: yep... bought ^^ [11:38] Neo Cortex: imagine walking amongst those in 3D .... [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: :) [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: also check out Cuteulalas roller coasters [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: "Cuteulala Park" [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its not all mesh [11:40] Neo Cortex: i did.... kind of an express lane to puke town in my Rift... [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon. you want to get them sick behind the pc ? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but that would be crazy [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: hahaha [11:40] Inanna Beaumont: doros 1001 nights too [11:43] Arielle Popstar: is .7.6 getting close to being released? [11:43] Arielle Popstar: or is that on the backburner for now? [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: ask that next week arielle [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its delayed until after conference [11:43] Arielle Popstar: nod [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: just not enough time to do it correctly right now [11:43] Arielle Popstar: lot of changes lately [11:44] Arielle Popstar: probably needs time for testing anyway [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya we have been heavily testing it at the CC grid [11:44] BlueWall Slade: the conference has caused a great deal of work toward optimization to be done [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: it will be the usual issues where it works in one configuration (e.g. cc grid) but then problems crop up when more widely tested [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: this is why releases are quite a big effort [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: but the benefit of having a more stable point in the code is high [11:46] Cuteulala Artis is offline. [11:47] Arielle Popstar: so looking for 200+ people today at the conference grid? [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: that would be nice :) [11:47] Arielle Popstar: set the default Osgrid region for the CC grid :p [11:48] Arielle Popstar: so everyone tp'ing gets diverted [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt you could do that [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:48] Neo Cortex: and provoke some login issues ^^ [11:48] Arielle Popstar: can you send a grid wide message for everyone to come? [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: no real way to send grid wide messages [11:49] Arielle Popstar: better get Justin to code that capability in [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: actually we did have it at one point [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: I do think a service to do that kind of thing would be very useful [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but it was not secure [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: bascially anyone could send the message [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:49] Neo Cortex: ".... the region you are in will be rebooted in two minutes... pleasee jump to the CC grid..." [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: and stuff like be able to kick a person from a central point [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so we removed it [11:50] Arielle Popstar: hehe yes Neo [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, that kind of thing is not very useful for open grids like osgrid [11:50] BlueWall Slade: the messaging would be [11:50] Arielle Popstar: removed it or disabled it? [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: it was completely removed [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: this was really long time ago [11:51] Arielle Popstar: bummer [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: like 4-5 years ago [11:52] Arielle Popstar: everyone message their friends with a link to CC [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: brb afk a few [11:53] Arielle Popstar: psst, Fred, you are still a cloud [11:53] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: kk [11:54] Arielle Popstar: good now [11:54] Tiffany Magic: I see Fred rezzed. [11:54] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: i rebaked [11:55] Arielle Popstar: well meeting adjourned to CC i guess [11:55] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: see you all there [11:55] Neo Cortex: what region should we jump to? [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I think I'll hang on another 5 mins [11:56] Arielle Popstar: try "mapto cc.opensimulator.org:8002:keynote 1" [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: still trying to add some useful things to pCampbot [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: back [11:56] Arielle Popstar: without quotes [11:57] Tiffany Magic: Ok.. bye all. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: we heading over? [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm heading out. see you next week. [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks is offline. [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: alright yes, let's go.... [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey looks around and sees everyone alreayd left