Chat log from the meeting on 2010-06-15

[09:31] Key Gruin is Online [09:38] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Post_Fixes) 85c20e1: 2010-06-11 19:40:09 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [09:39] Entering god mode, level 255 [09:40] Erich Burner is Offline [09:42] UUID Speaker: Peter Mumm: 219ef582-68ff-f305-fd45-57dd87284280 [09:49] Richardus Raymaker is Online [09:52] Penny Lane: Hi Neb, Otaku [09:53] Warin Cascabel is Online [09:54] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online [09:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi all [09:54] Warin Cascabel: Hello [09:55] Lani Global is Online [09:55] Orion Hax: Hello [09:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Warin [09:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Orion [09:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Rich [09:55] Richardus Raymaker: hi snoopy, orion [09:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi all lol [09:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: too many I know hehe [09:55] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Snoopy (and Orion, Richardus, OtakuMegane, Nebadon, Ubit...) [09:55] Richardus Raymaker: hi all [09:56] Master Dubrovna: Hi everyone [09:57] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Master Dubrovna. [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone :) [09:57]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Neb [09:58]  Richardus Raymaker: hi nebadon [09:59]  Nebadon Izumi: hows everyone doing? [09:59]  Snoopy Pfeffer: fine thanks :) [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: sofar so good. in the load test mood [10:00] Warin Cascabel: Not too terribly. [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: cool well for those who have some extra time today [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: after this meeting ScienceSim is holding a large load test on their Beta Grid [10:00] Pat Riley: Hello all. [10:00] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Pat [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: wrong day nebadon. :( besides i donmt have account there [10:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: with 1000 real avatars? ;) [10:01] Tesira Luco is Offline [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: http://grid.beta.sciencesim.com/GridFrontend/index.php [10:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: does imprudence have sience sim in the list ? [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to sign up and join in [10:01]  Nebadon Izumi: no it will will be mostly bots [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: but the more real avatars the better too [10:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Justin [10:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi snoopy, folks [10:01] Orion Hax starts humming "the day the servers died" [10:01] King John is Online [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey farts discreetly [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: the LoginURI for ScienceSim Beta grid is http://grid.beta.sciencesim.com/Grid/login/ [10:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks [10:04] Richardus Raymaker: ok. that muts work [10:04] Richardus Raymaker: new teleporter ? [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: the Kiosk in front of Fireplace? [10:05] Warin Cascabel: That's a Region Showcase kiosk for the Third Birthday Celebration. [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: yes [10:05] Penny Lane: JCC: I watched your year-old interview with FOSS weekly on the weekend. It was good, you should do another !! :-) [10:05] Warin Cascabel: People who would like to showcase their regions may add textures to one of the drop points in Wright (at the landing point) and Lbsa. [10:05]  Warin Cascabel: As long as they're named properly, go to valid coordinates, and are not inappropriate, they'll be added into the kiosks. [10:06]  Richardus Raymaker: cool [10:06]  Snoopy Pfeffer: what about search in osgrid? [10:06]  Warin Cascabel: Oh, and as long as the image creator is actually the region owner... [10:06]  Snoopy Pfeffer: currently ppl have to ask others to find regions [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: Search will probably be broken until after the refactor [10:07]  Richardus Raymaker: i explain them most times if the ask for lm how the can find region (map search) [10:07]  Warin Cascabel: What exactly is the technical issue preventing search from working? [10:07]  Nebadon Izumi: Region search anyway [10:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: penny: Thanks, though I was pretty self-critical on listenback :) I think Nicole did a great job [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: Region search is borken Warin [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: no one ever fixed the Meters to Cell issue [10:07] Warin Cascabel: Oh, is that it? [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: so teleports fail [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: i think so [10:08]  Warin Cascabel: Well, hell, that should be easy to fix. [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: we would of course need to test more [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: i heard datasnapshop might not work [10:08] OtakuMegane Desu: Are meters and cells both going to continue being used? [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: but i think people dont realize i shut the cron off [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: so maybe thats why they think its not working [10:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: well it doesnt [10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: I cannot find my regions using search, right here [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: right [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: search has been on for a couple months now [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: sorry been Off* [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: i find it right away in map search [10:09] Nebadon Izumi: region search wont work at all [10:09] Warin Cascabel: Different kind of search, Richardus. [10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: is someone fixing that for 0.7? [10:09] Richardus Raymaker: normal search never worked. so never used it [10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: what went wrong with search? [10:10] Warin Cascabel: Cells-to-meters conversion, apparently. [10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: Rich before it did work well [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: no one ever updated the module after we switched from cells to meters [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: norma search is mostly bad. see SL [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: cells to meters? [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya we changed the database [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: we used to store region cell #'s like 1000,1000 [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: but ok.... [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, yet another change :) [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: but that became 256000,256000 [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: so when you try to teleport from search results [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: you are told the region is not responding [10:11]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, i saw a number like that once. i think with teleport [10:11]  Penny Lane: JCC: perfection not required. :-) It was fun, and got more people to hear about Opensim, so it was a success. Looking forward to more :-) [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: you end up right back in the sim you were in [10:11]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hm [10:11]  Snoopy Pfeffer: sounds like one line of code [10:11]  Snoopy Pfeffer: a 10 mins bug fix! [10:11]  Warin Cascabel: Yeah [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: ya well if we can we should [10:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: penny: heh, yeah me too [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: ive been focusing on things that crash sims [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: not really things that just dont work [10:12]  Richardus Raymaker: right nebadon [10:12]  Snoopy Pfeffer: well residents here expect that such things work [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its just i dont have enough arms [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:12]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe yes true [10:12]  Richardus Raymaker: new avatar needed nebadon :) [10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: you need a special avatar with many arms ;) [10:12]  OtakuMegane Desu: Once 0.7 is ready, you'll be able to deal with dead regions better, right? [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: but if you guys can get a fix together [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i will slap up a new release quick [10:13]  Lani Global is Offline [10:13]  Snoopy Pfeffer: when will we move to 0.7? [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: soon hopefully [10:13]  Richardus Raymaker: 0.7 still not compatible with current osgrid ? [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: im testing a 0.6.9 to 0.7 migration now [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: Warin and Dave have been working on the web interface [10:13]  OtakuMegane Desu: It never will be. It's a rather drastic change [10:13]  Penny Lane: We need a new Git branch, tag it "Neb-5-arms". [10:13]  Lani Global is Online [10:14]  Snoopy Pfeffer: good [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: now that its been finalized [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: we can work more to get it done [10:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: will you do all changes directly in the database for that web interface? [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: not knowing if things were final [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: it was hard to get things done without worrying about having to redo it all [10:14] Warin Cascabel: No, Snoopy, we'll be using the SimianGrid and/or ROBUST API. [10:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah good [10:15] Richardus Raymaker: is the estate_id fixt in 0.7 ? i still see fresh region come back with id=2 in mysql [10:15] Penny Lane: 0.7 is going to be compatible with SimianGrid, I seem to recall mention, is that right? [10:15] Richardus Raymaker: thats in 0.6.9 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: should come back 100 [10:15] Warin Cascabel: Yes, Penny. [10:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: there are Similan connectors in 0.7 [10:15] Penny Lane: Neat [10:15] Richardus Raymaker: installed fresh 0.6.9 osgrid. and it still have wrong estate id, other regions i changed manual [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: Hello Strawberry [10:16] Strawberry Fride: hi folks :) [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: thats odd Richardus [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: let me check my new grid [10:16]  Richardus Raymaker: but, its 0.6.9 i use [10:16]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Strawberry [10:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: anybody using the most uptodate 0.6.9-post-fixes? [10:17]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:17]  Strawberry Fride: almost up to date - been cherry picking recent patches [10:17]  Snoopy Pfeffer: and 0.7 outside osgrid [10:17]  Strawberry Fride: (in beta test still not live yet) [10:17]  Warin Cascabel: I'm a few days behind. [10:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: any unexpected slowdown/slow texture laoding, etc? [10:17]  Richardus Raymaker: estate-settings table = estate_id -> 1 [10:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: more than usual, of course :) [10:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: no I did not experience that [10:17] McCabe Maxsted is Online [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thanks [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: did you get the chance to update anything to the latest 0.6.9-post-fixes? [10:18] Richardus Raymaker: textures seems to load normal speed jcc [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: or are you busy with 0.7 testing now :) [10:18]  OtakuMegane Desu: Most recent post-fixes seems fine. Certainly no worse than before at least. :) [10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thanks. I ported something back to get 'share with group' working fully but saw some adverse reports [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Richardus [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i started a new 0.6.9 grid yessterday [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: the latest 0.6.9-post-fixes disables that - just wanted to check if that was really the case [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: all my regions have Estate ID = 100 [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i did not modify it [10:19]  Richardus Raymaker: the version thats not set id good is a4e4 [10:19] McCabe Maxsted waves hello :) [10:19]  Snoopy Pfeffer: in 0.7 you can use the same EstateIDs easily [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: i am on master 0.6.9-post-fixes Richardus [10:20]  Richardus Raymaker: then i dont get why its wrongh. do you have mastre avatar nebadon ? [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:20]  Richardus Raymaker: aha, ok. then i hope its fixt in 0.7 [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think its broken in 0.6.9 though [10:21]  Richardus Raymaker: then explain me later why i get wrong id :O [10:21]  Nebadon Izumi: if you dont enter a UUID [10:21]  Nebadon Izumi: then it should get a restricted estate ID [10:21]  Nebadon Izumi: otherwise everyone is a god [10:21]  Richardus Raymaker: what uuid ? maby i use old region.ini then [10:21]  Nebadon Izumi: if the database is blank shold not matter [10:22]  Nebadon Izumi: make sure you drop all the tables etc.. [10:22]  paulie Flomar is Online [10:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: I saw that 0.6.9 region files cannot be used with 0.7 [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: i drop the complet database for that region. it comes back with id =1 [10:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: something causes problems [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: let me drop it again [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: why Snoopy? [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: you mean XML? [10:22] Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:22] Snoopy Pfeffer: well I had some error message [10:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: no INI [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: no i use ini files [10:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: probably some of the settings I did use dont work with 0.7 anymore [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: looking at my Ini file [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: they look the same [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: maybe you have extra stuff [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: thats not in the default ini? [10:23] Snoopy Pfeffer: I need to compare the new created one with the old one [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: mine is super basic [10:23] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [10:23]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [10:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: hey dahlia [10:24]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Dahlia [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: ok well let us know for sure what you find Snoopy [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: i have always kept my Regions.ini the bare minimum [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: whatever the autogenerated ones include [10:24]  Snoopy Pfeffer: k I have a look, now [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: its possible some variable names changed [10:25]  Richardus Raymaker: SO its maby good to have a region.ini file on wiki for 0.7 as example [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: as far as I can tell [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: if your using a standard ini [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: its not changed [10:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: what's wrong with region.ini.example? [10:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: er, sorry, I'm talking balls [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: my guess its custom changes that might have broken [10:26] Richardus Raymaker: estateid=1 [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: undocumented variables [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: that can be used there [10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: a region.ini.example might be nice [10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok some parameters in my old ini are in double quotes [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: we have [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: its in /bin [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: not /Regions [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: cause it would be loaded [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: if we put it in regions [10:26] Richardus Raymaker: thats in the table estate-settings [10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: I define a master avater although not needed in osgrid [10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, I think only .ini is loaded? might be wrong though [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: well xml too [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yeah, and .xml [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: we could probably have it ignore .example [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: if it does try [10:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: and I set ClampPrimSize [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: i use mastre avatar to. without it i think things diod nopt work well the last version 3-4 back [10:27] Warin Cascabel: I'm pretty sure it only looks at .ini and .xml files; I've got some renamed ones in there that it doesn't pull in. [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: Master avatr only works once [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: once the database has a UUID set [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: master avatar doesn't exist any more in 0.7, right? [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: it never reads that variable ever again [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: it only reads it once [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: 1st start up [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: then never again [10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: the parameter names are the same [10:28] Richardus Raymaker: JCC if its not in 0.7 how does it know who's the master ? [10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: at least the ones in the new 0.7 regions ini file [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: what we really need is a console command [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I think it uses the estate settings now - but I don't know the details yet [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: to transfer Esatate Ownership [10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: I always do that in the database [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: othewrwise were database diving [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: means shutting sim down [10:29] paulie Flomar is Online [10:29] Richardus Raymaker: JCC, must have missed somnething. where can you et estate master avatar ? (not the managers) [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not sure off the top of my head - I think there's an estate_settings.xml [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: this is something that people will need to make sure there is documentatio nfor [10:30] Strawberry Fride: what about region ownership? [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: migration documentation preferably [10:30] Strawberry Fride: I'm confused as to the terminology [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: the Estate Owner [10:30] Richardus Raymaker: yes jcc, it seems ts a point that need some work [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: do people really own regions per se? doesn't it depend on the estate that the region is in? [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: right now the only way to change it in 0.6.9 and 0.7 is edit the db [10:31]  paulie Flomar is Offline [10:31] Snoopy Pfeffer: I did fix remote admin and now you can copy the appearance of default avatars - would similar functionality be useful on the console? [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: we didn't have a proper estate implementatio nbefore now which is why master avatarr existed, I think [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: the Viewer expects an Estate Owner [10:31] Richardus Raymaker: ok, thats what i did. but ifit creates a fresh db froms crath its reverting back to id 1 [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: for lots of permissions [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: without it the region goes into lockdown [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: these problems are the kind of thing to bring up with 0.7-rc1 [10:32] Strawberry Fride: sounds like you will not be able to run a multiregion instance of opensim with regions that have different owners...? [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: I think they would just be owned by different estates... [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: Strawberry you can [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: you just have to make new estate for each region [10:32] Strawberry Fride: glad I'm sticking with 0.6.9 for now .... [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: its the same in 0.6.9 [10:32] Strawberry Fride: oh pants [10:32] Strawberry Fride: so I will have customers who don't own their regions? [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: not unless you edit the estate_settings table [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ot change estate owner UUID [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: then they will [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: or if you set it 1st startup [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: when it asks you questions [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: if you skip that and it writes 0000-0000--000 [10:33] Strawberry Fride: right, so I have to change all my servers to have a single central estate server and edit all the databases by hand [10:33] Strawberry Fride: wow [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: the only way to change that is via the DB [10:33]  Nebadon Izumi: there is no changing ini and restarting [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: its a one time shot [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: well such a new command is a quick thing to do [10:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: urgh [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya the reason it was written this way [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: is because it will be console driven command to change [10:34] Strawberry Fride: I have a web admin that makes it easy for me now [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: that was the plan [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: because editing ini or DB [10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: require sim restart [10:34] Strawberry Fride: this is going to be massively painful [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: with a console command we can do it without restarting [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: Is sim restart such a bad thing for asomething that won't happen very often? [10:34] Snoopy Pfeffer: Strawberry did you have a look at RemoteAdmin [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it is if the sim has 6000 scripts [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: if you use that you can easily migrate from 0.6.9 to 0.7 [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: and it takes 40 minutes to start [10:35] Strawberry Fride: I am on 0.6.6 [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh so old? [10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: hm [10:35]  Strawberry Fride: I am not moving beyond 0.6.9 in the near future [10:35] Dahlia Trimble: most ini values are only used at region startup anyway [10:35] Strawberry Fride: from what it sounds like I am going to be working all weekend again [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: thats wise Strawberry [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: Reaction Grid shouldnt [10:35] Strawberry Fride: indeed [10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: the trouble with this kind of thing is it makes it much more complicated to change - changing ini files is so much simpler [10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: though admittedly delving manually into the db is worse [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem is if you have to restart a sim and it takes an hour to startup [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: then thats a real nightmare [10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes ini files are commands [10:36] Strawberry Fride: we do web loading regions [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: especially if your doing it all day [10:36] Strawberry Fride: so it's central [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: we now talk about mysql, but what with all the people that still use sqlite. edit something in there. donbt ask me how (use mysql) [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: especially if you restart it takes 1 hour [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: to find out you made a typo [10:37] Strawberry Fride: I've never had a region that heavy :) [10:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, that's bad [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: this sim takes 15 mintues almost [10:37]  Strawberry Fride: heaviest I've seen had 700 scripts [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: i have one with 2100 [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: SL has sims with 15k scripts [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: its very possible [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: it will happen [10:38]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Post_Fixes) 85c20e1: 2010-06-11 19:40:09 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [10:38]  Richardus Raymaker: and it lags [10:38]  Snoopy Pfeffer: Neb, is it documented how to disable login during startups? [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm WhiteStar was going to [10:38]  Strawberry Fride: so essentially the master avatar is dead in 0.6.9 and I shall have to rework estate management to have central ownership for estates... [10:38]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I also want to configure that feature [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if he did [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: let me send you the regionready prim [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: its really easy [10:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks :) [10:38]  Snoopy Pfeffer accepted your inventory offer. [10:38]  Richardus Raymaker: more documentation about estate setting (up) is welcome here [10:38]  Snoopy Pfeffer: cool [10:39]  Nebadon Izumi: you need to enable osConsoleCommands [10:39]  Snoopy Pfeffer: so it is an in-world script? [10:39]  Richardus Raymaker: that sound like a cool prim nebadon [10:39]  Nebadon Izumi: and set StartDisabled = true [10:39]  Nebadon Izumi: and also enable RegionReady on -800 [10:39]  Nebadon Izumi: its both [10:39]  Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks [10:40]  Richardus Raymaker: is the remote admin wiki page still current, or its a bit outdated ? [10:40]  Richardus Raymaker accepted your inventory offer. [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure Richardus, ive not used remote admin [10:40]  Breaker Zodiakos: I apologize if this isn't the right place or time to ask this, I came in a little late... just wanted to know if the new hypergrid 1.5 is enabled on any of the main regions on OSGrid yet [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: not yet OSgrid cant run 0.7 yet [10:40] Snoopy Pfeffer: isnt that part of 0.7? [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: we are still on 0.6.9 which is HG 1 [10:40] Breaker Zodiakos: Ah, I see... I apologize. ^_^ [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: no problem [10:41] Breaker Zodiakos: I'm currently trying to set up a simple, 1 region home grid, with the intent of seeing how easy/hard it is to hypergrid to other grids (is there a better way of saying that?) [10:41] Breaker Zodiakos: If I have to wait until after 0.7 release that's fine with me. :D [10:42] Penny Lane: Neb: eventually the startup time problem will go away when we have avatar migration (needed for high sim availability). Won't matter how long startup takes, because you'll only move the people in the old region over to the new one when it's completed loading. [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: its probably better to wait for 1.5 at this point [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: we dont really support HG1 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: though you can use it here [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: we dont really promote its use [10:42] Breaker Zodiakos: Oh, I didn't know... [10:42] Dave Coyle is Online [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: well its a bit insecure right now [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: 1.5 will introduce better security [10:43] Breaker Zodiakos: I'm really interested in the concept, just having trouble figuring out how to use it practically [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya right now its very Test/Dev only [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: not very practical just yet [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully 1.5 improves its useablity [10:43] Penny Lane: Is HG1.5 in the works? [10:44] Dave Coyle is Offline [10:44] Breaker Zodiakos: I've been studying the patch notes a bit, so I know a little about 1.5 and why it's better, just didn't know that OSGrid is still on 0.6.9... I move too fast, lol [10:45] Breaker Zodiakos: I apologize if I derailed the conversation a bit [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: I am not really the one to speak on HG, i have not used it myself [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: HG has been on hold for a while [10:45] Penny Lane: HG is extremely important. Without it, Opensim is just creating a pile of walled gardens, no interop at all between them. [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: everyones waiting for 1.5 [10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: you didnt use HG yet? [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: 1.0 was more a proof of concept [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: me no, i teleported a few times to Divas regions [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 2-3 times total [10:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok [10:46]  Nebadon Izumi: thats my extent of using HG [10:46]  Breaker Zodiakos: The 0.7.0 changelog suggests that hypergrid 1.5 is alread yin [10:46] Breaker Zodiakos: Er, in [10:46]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I use it on my regions [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: it is [10:46]  Snoopy Pfeffer: I get many HG visitors [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: its just OSgrid doesnt run 0.7 [10:46] Penny Lane: Breaker: cool! [10:46] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah yes 1.5 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: we have not tested it yet [10:46] Breaker Zodiakos: Sorry Nebadon, I was replying to penny, hehe [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: oh [10:46]  Nebadon Izumi: no problem [10:47] Penny Lane: Who are the peeps doing the work on HG1.5? [10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: Breaker I can give you an URI to test HG 1.5 [10:47] Breaker Zodiakos: Penny: Diva Canto mainly I think [10:47] Breaker Zodiakos: Snoopy, that would be awesome! [10:47] Penny Lane: KK, thanks [10:49] Breaker Zodiakos: It's my eventual goal to make an easy to use opensim/viewer combo for end users to have their own private grid and be able to use hypergrid, in a binary distribution, similar to Diva's distribution... but I've not been touching the source because of the potential licensing issues [10:49] Penny Lane: I'd be happy to help test HG1.5, by adding inventory elsewhere and visiting places through HG [10:49]  Dorothea Lundquist is Online [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: cool [10:49] Penny Lane: Breaker: that would rock [10:50] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, how much GB does WP use now ? [10:51] Dorothea Lundquist: hello all :) [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: show stats say 950mb [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: top is 3.5/3.0 [10:51]  Breaker Zodiakos: Something with some decent defaults and inventory... I've been creating a 'home' region for that use, so that people will be able to start it up and immediately have a fully functional home to play around with, something practical.... but unfortunately I've been stymied because I want to use the viewer 2.0 features for a lot of stuff in it, hehe [10:51]  Richardus Raymaker: thats opensim self. not virtueel [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: personally i dont think this sim could run on 32 bit [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: in linux [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: without 64 bit this sim would be restarting 4-5 times a day [10:52]  Breaker Zodiakos: Add the fact that apparently LL has said they are adding meshes in this month (I'll believe it when I see it), and it seems there's a bit of catching up to do [10:52]  Snoopy Pfeffer: is it less stable as 32 bit sim? [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: LL is testing meshes on beta grid [10:52] Richardus Raymaker: Viewer 2.0 from sl is so bad. [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: no but it runs out of memory a lot faster Snoopy [10:52] Richardus Raymaker: its withing for better viewers with 2.0 functions [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: being the 32bit limit is much much lower [10:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: well I even run 2 GB regions of 32 bit [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: sure [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: 3gb is the 32bit limit in linux [10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [10:53] OtakuMegane Desu: There any major issues with 64-bit these days or is that settled out fairly well? [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: we are always going past that here [10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok [10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: 3.5-4.0gb on top is normal here [10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: k [10:53]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes then you need 64 bit [10:53] Breaker Zodiakos: I'm not completely sold on viewer 2.0 itself for a bunch of reasons, but we are all dealing with the lesser of evils here in everything we develop with opensim, lol... so I'll take what I can get, including the new viewer 2 features [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: i stil havent used SL2 [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: just one time like the day it was released [10:53] Richardus Raymaker: keep it that way nebedan :P [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: i tried in on SL [10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: found out it didnt work on OSG [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: and i uninstalled it [10:54]  OtakuMegane Desu: Some of the features are nice, like the improved media options.Viewer 2.0 itself though is evil. D: [10:54] Penny Lane: Does Mono provide a way of auditing where all the memory is going? Seems nuts at first sight that so much is required. [10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: the latest ones seem to be better - or at least I was able to visit sciencesim with one [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: Penny Mono has horrible GC [10:54]  Breaker Zodiakos: Shared Media is pretty important, in my opinion... there's so many things I'd like to add to my 'home' that I cant' yet [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: it basiclly does nothing [10:54] Breaker Zodiakos: until it's supported [10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: 2.0 might deal a bit better with large numbers of avatars [10:54] Richardus Raymaker: whats the last one for yopu JCC ? [10:54] Richardus Raymaker: i hear 2.4.2.3 is better then 2.6.4 [10:54] Ubit Umarov: (seems mono ins't great on memory management... is on wikis..) [10:55] Breaker Zodiakos: Apparently the new viewers have a much different caching system as well... KirstenLee wrote about it on his blog [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys just 1 more reminder, after this meeting Big Load Test on Intels ScienceSim Beta grid [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: http://grid.beta.sciencesim.com/GridFrontend/index.php << register your avatar [10:55] Nebadon Izumi: http://grid.beta.sciencesim.com/Grid/login/ << loginuri for browser [10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I tell you waht though, it really doesn't like running on my laptop with 1.23 open [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: reigion to log into [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: "perftest4" [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: dont log in yet [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: anyone else have anything for todays meeting? [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: our hour is just about up [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: im happy to see the region holding up great for the last few meetings [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: seems were making some good progress on stability [10:58] Warin Cascabel: NOOOO DON'T SAY IT! [10:58] Strawberry Fride: lol [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: just in time to break everything with 0.7 [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:58] OtakuMegane Desu: nebadon, so Wright is running on 64-bit? [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: man, yeah, don't say that! [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: yes Otaku [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: :) [10:58]  McCabe Maxsted: haha [10:58]  Breaker Zodiakos: What kind of hardware is this region running on? [10:58]  Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe [10:58]  OtakuMegane Desu: Any of the odd issues 64-bit used to have still around or is it all about the same? [10:59]  Dahlia Trimble poofs... bye :) [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: there's some code in opensim that rolls a dice and crashes the sim when anybody says "holding up great" [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: not really, it actually runs better than 32 bit in my opinion [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: you dont run out of memory as fast [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: but you aslo need 8gb minimum [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i guess 4gb would do [10:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh no [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: but you can get most of 4gb in 32bit too [10:59] Richardus Raymaker: if you have enough memory for 64bit [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: with 2GB there's no difference [11:00] Penny Lane: lol [11:00] Penny Lane: And people think Justin is joking ... :P [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: major text lag now [11:00] OtakuMegane Desu: I may see about shifting to 64-bit then. Planned to anyway, but wanted to wait till the old bugs were gone [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think most of the bugs are gone now [11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: which 64 bit bugs? [11:01] OtakuMegane Desu: I have ridiculous amounts of memory available lol [11:01] Breaker Zodiakos: Are there still problems with ODE physics with 64-bit? [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: just the c2j2k thing mostly [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I think snoopy's fix for the texture encode was the last bad 64 bit one :) [11:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: is there still a pronlem?? [11:01]  Snoopy Pfeffer: yes [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing i know about with physics [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: we are using a stock physics configuration here [11:01]  Key Gruin is Offline [11:01]  Breaker Zodiakos: I remember before that you couldn't run ODE physics with 64-bit, about 6 months ago or so [11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I think I'm going to pop over to the load test before getting back to work [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: this region has been 64 bit since last year [11:02]  Breaker Zodiakos: I guess a lot has changed, hehe [11:02]  Snoopy Pfeffer: well that was 1.5 years ago [11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks around [11:02]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: later Justin, thanks for coming [11:02]  Breaker Zodiakos: Hmm, I should try that out then [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: I use 64 bits since 1.5 years [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey waves [11:02] Strawberry Fride: grr - sciencesim registration sends back password in plain text - I hate that [11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: and it got better [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline [11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: and now all bugs are fixed [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: to email Strawberry? [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: or where? [11:03] Breaker Zodiakos: If there are no negatives to 64-bit, then woohoo! :D No reason not to [11:03] Strawberry Fride: yeah [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: k [11:03]  Strawberry Fride: register, get email, there's the password [11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: well there is just that ODE parameter that need to be changed so that ppl have to feet stuck in the ground [11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: needs* [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ok "perftest4" is up on ScienceSim Beta and ready for logins [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: that bug still exists on 64bit ? [11:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: if you wish to join todays monster load test [11:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: I will also have a look [11:04] Breaker Zodiakos: Yeah, I've noticed on my home region that for some reason, my avatar tends to do the mid-air yoga float for some reason... [11:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: cu there [11:04] OtakuMegane Desu: One other thing. Any changes in what MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU should be set at? Is it even needed any more? [11:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that Mono parameter is importent [11:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: otherwise you will experience problems [11:05] OtakuMegane Desu: Ok. 75 still pretty much the optimal setting? [11:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: processes that consume over 100% processor power [11:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: well it depends on many things [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: sometimes you need lower values and sometimes higher ones [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: usually good values are between 35 and 120 on quadcores [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I need to log out here [11:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye [11:07] Snoopy Pfeffer is Offline [11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm, ok. Hehe, I can technically assing anywhere from 1 to 8 cores lol. [11:08] Strawberry Fride: heading to load test - laters ppl [11:08] King John is Offline [11:08] McCabe Maxsted waves [11:09] Penny Lane: Hi McCabe :-) [11:09]  McCabe Maxsted: hey there penny [11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: what region on science ? [11:10]  Penny Lane: Going to register at SciSim beta for that load test. [11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: hi mccabe [11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: just in there now [11:10]  McCabe Maxsted: rock on [11:11]  McCabe Maxsted: bots included in the load test, or just avs? [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: bots mostly [11:12]  McCabe Maxsted noticed the last load test wasn't very... loadful. None of the avs had attachments. Wonder what was being tested exactly [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: its up now [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: right now were testing sim comms [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: the ability for the sim to comminicate with the 4 content managers [11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, whats the region in science [11:13]  McCabe Maxsted: ahh, nifty [11:14]  Warin Cascabel is Offline [11:15]  Richardus Raymaker: to bad, the dont have prim hair for free avatars [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: some news mccabe ? [11:17] McCabe Maxsted: well, I don't want to take up opensim time with the viewer office hours [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: opensim meeting over.. [11:18] Penny Lane: Oh, Imprudence OH? When is that? [11:18] Penny Lane: And where, hehe [11:18] McCabe Maxsted: here, right after the opensim meeting [11:18] Penny Lane: Oh, good choice. :-) [11:18] McCabe Maxsted still needs to finish the blog post [11:18]  McCabe Maxsted: kk [11:19]  McCabe Maxsted: well then, the big news is beta5 is tentatively this friday, which probably means saturday or sunday as a release is always a big deal [11:19]  Penny Lane: Great! [11:20]  McCabe Maxsted: you probably won't see much difference between last wek's weekly and this, as most of what's going in is feature completion and crash fixes this week [11:20]  McCabe Maxsted is excited though :D [11:21]  Penny Lane: I've not been running weeklies, so I'll see a lot of difference :-) [11:21] McCabe Maxsted: haha, you will [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: last weekly is good. some weeklyes where bad. but i preffer to run weekly's if the sound intressting [11:22] Penny Lane: Not sure if this laptop can take it, but going to try a second viewer into the SciSim beta test now. [11:23] McCabe Maxsted nods. Being able to release test reeleases from week to week has really given us a leg up on development like that. We've caught a lot of things that would have made some awkward beta releases [11:23] McCabe Maxsted: I noticed LL is planning on copying us with 2.1, hehe [11:24] Fredy Fernan: secondlife://valdeverdeja.no-ip.org:9000:DIVAUBUNTU/74/167/54 [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: the could safe them self a lot of headace.. oh wait the dont use them anyway [11:24] Penny Lane: I've given up following what LL does on viewers. Seems pointless. [11:24] McCabe Maxsted: hehe [11:25] McCabe Maxsted: we have to, largely out of necessity [11:25] Penny Lane: Aye [11:25] McCabe Maxsted: eventually we'll probably switch to the 2.0 rendering engine (but not the 2.0 ui, noooo) [11:25] Penny Lane: Until Opensim starts taking the lead on features. [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: penny, you think that will happen ? [11:26] McCabe Maxsted: speaking of, neb, I read your comments about http textures [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: as long opensim, imprudence dont follow linden labs but stay ahead. (the do anyway) [11:26] Penny Lane: What is different in the 2.0 rendering engine? (Visible features like tatoos aside) [11:27] Dorothea Lundquist is Offline [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: media on prim [11:28] McCabe Maxsted: penny: shadows are much improved in the latest HEAD, therewas also a lot o ui refactoring [11:28] Penny Lane: Rich: I know there is some pulling back on Opensim features to not move ahead of SL, but those that want Opensim to move ahead will do it. When is anybody's guess. [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: shadows looks so cool in imprudence. [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: to bad it kills my framerate [11:29] Penny Lane: McCabe; those are features though. Has the 3D engine itself been revamped/restructured? [11:29] McCabe Maxsted nods. Yeah, that's pretty common. We'll probably wai 'til the 2.1 LL release to look at backporting the shadows stuff, it's still being worked on [11:29] McCabe Maxsted: it's still pretty much the same [11:31] McCabe Maxsted: plugins are high onour list; mainly because they'll help solve some issues we have with the media system [11:32] McCabe Maxsted: one of the issues si that if a stream uses aac encoding fr audio we can' decode it, as the lbrary s propietary [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: mccabe you look like a noob, thats right ? [11:32] McCabe Maxsted: yeah [11:32] Penny Lane: You mean the PluginAPI plugins, I assume, not client-side scripting like Jacek and I started designing a year ago :-) [11:32]  McCabe Maxsted: osgrid lost my shape again [11:33]  McCabe Maxsted: yes penny [11:33]  Penny Lane nods [11:33]  McCabe Maxsted would still like to see that scripting finished, hehe ;)