Chat log from the meeting on 2020-11-10

[11:00] Kayaker Magic whispers: Hello Ubit, Andrew!

[11:00] Ubit Umarov: sniky ppl so quiet

[11:00] Ubit Umarov: hi

[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker.

[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit, and steevithak.

[11:00] steevithak x: howdy

[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Did the clocks change in Europe this past weekend?

[11:03] Ubit Umarov: 25th out

[11:03] Ubit Umarov: long ago :)

[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Just wondering where is everyone today.

[11:03] Ubit Umarov: oh im here

[11:03] Ubit Umarov: :p

[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, you are. :)

[11:04] Kayaker Magic: You are a subset of 'everyone'

[11:05] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: just bill missing

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: and gavin

[11:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no, gavin said he wouldnt be here this week

[11:06] Ubit Umarov: oops

[11:06] Ubit Umarov: selby

[11:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: he's usually late

[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: or at least has been lately

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Arielle. Hello, Bill.

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: ok so this was a nice meeting.. cya all next week?

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. ;)

[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: look at this article

[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2020/11/kitely-offers-mega-worlds-in-november-rolls-out-land-sales/

[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: seems kitely really pulled ahead of opensim

[11:08] Bill Blight: HAHAHA

[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: barely even opensim

[11:08] Bill Blight: al that is, is an 8x8 var

[11:08] Kayaker Magic: No, Kitely is just using the same Var regions OpenSim has.

[11:08] Bill Blight: they are just claiming to dedicate resources to it

[11:09] Kayaker Magic: They have done some optimization to handle more avatars at once.

[11:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: 80 simultaneous visitors and up to 150,000 prims

[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Anybody can rent a dedicated server.

[11:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: In addition, the technology Kitely developed enables having much better performance using less computer resources than what OpenSim normally uses.

[11:10] Bill Blight: we will see how it works when they actually get them loaded, any body can say what they want when "selling"

[11:10] Bill Blight: they use less resources by spinning down regions when nobody is on them

[11:11] Ubit Umarov: about kitely for no i only remember how they promissed to give some contrib back, and we got nothing so far

[11:11] Kayaker Magic: I think Kitely has done some good work optimizing OpenSim to handle more users at once. But they do not share their improvements.

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Kitely says they did work to be able to host large events but never defined what they consider a large event in the notice they posted about it.

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: fun it when 900 commits fixing opensim, now just 600

[11:12] Bill Blight: personally, much of it is "bait and switch" IMHO

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: details

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: they are comercial.. so comercial things

[11:13] Bill Blight: I've gone to many "big events" on kitely and have never seen an dramatic improvement on lag/performance

[11:13] Kayaker Magic: At their community meetings they described a system that would allow 1000's of people to come to an event, it would allocate more and more servers, create more regions, and direct new arrivals to different copies of the region.

[11:13] Bill Blight: yes that is creating shards, like sansar did

[11:13] Bill Blight: and failed

[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well if they promised to contribute back and didn't....

[11:13] Bill Blight: because it ruined the social atmosphere

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone can host large events if you are going to force people to be spread across multiple regions.

[11:14] Bill Blight: yep

[11:14] Kayaker Magic: I've been working on scripts to communicate between the regions so the same event can happen in all of them at once (as close to "at once" as OpenSim can get that is)

[11:15] Bill Blight: the IRC bridge works well for that

[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: extending local chat to all the shards?

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: well kitely like any other grid does what they wish to be competive

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: no big issues on that

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: no one expects one to tell "oh our code is worse than core opensim" :p

[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Animating an NPC on a stage in each region.

[11:15] Bill Blight: easy enough with a php controller for the npc

[11:16] Bill Blight: djphil had done some good work on one a while back

[11:17] Bill Blight: but simple enough to send commands to multiple controller prims, from a central point once all the prims are registered ... same basic idea as vendors with web backends

[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: The OSCC handles it by putting four regions together and having the presentation in one corner of one of the four that can be seen from the other three.

[11:18] Bill Blight: yeah, I think FS did the same thing in SL

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: normal old tech

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: well about code changes. a few bug fixes

[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what do you see my name tag read?

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: complexity 55912

[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: name

[11:22] Bill Blight: Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: so what news u bring about opensim?

[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: was seeing that on a recent hg jump to a outworldz grid

[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I thought you were about to start listing some changes after you mentioned "a few bug fixes".

[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: see the aarielle.arielle?

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: few bugs fixes is a nice list

[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I see a fix to kicking NPCs and inworld kicks

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: yeap that was not good

[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Showing group name on group owned prims is nice.

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: we can now mke 1024m prims on fs :)

[11:27] Kayaker Magic: Why do you ask about name tags? Do you see something unusual on yours Arielle?

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: depending on what region tells it about the limit (from opensim.ini)

[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you didnt see the pic i had up?

[11:28] Bill Blight: well if it was an issue on an outworldz sim, most likely an outworldz issue

[11:28] Kayaker Magic: No image, just the normal name tag.

[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: uses stock opensim

[11:28] Bill Blight: no it doesn't

[11:29] Bill Blight: he makes major changes to configs, and adds his own patches,

[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Major changes to configs! O my!

[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: though config changes were ok

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: whats the issue on the picture?

[11:30] Bill Blight: he reads and writes configs via that control panel, so ... yeah there is that

[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: It says Arielle.Arielle

[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: look at the name tag

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: hmm think that was a old bug we had for a few days

[11:31] Bill Blight: Also, that could have just been a short term bug

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: old as weeks months

[11:31] Bill Blight: yeah what Ubit said

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: wasn't a mantis on that?

[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: on a release?

[11:31] Bill Blight: or it could have just been a temporary screw up ... shite happens

[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks nods

[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i believe he uses a release

[11:32] Bill Blight: unless an issue is systemic, and multiple places are having it, with the exact same configuration, hard to call it an issues ...

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: only have some memory of something kinda related

[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: any release planned soon?

[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: been a few changes since the last one right?

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: guess one of my typical c&p then forgetting to change names, like first... to last...

[11:34] Bill Blight: yeah there was that issue on one commit, but it didn't last long

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: only visibile one is eep

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: that only a few can see :)

[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: we had BoM on the last release?

[11:35] Ubit Umarov: we did

[11:35] Bill Blight: Ok real life calls, need to go see what the electrician needs ... TTFN

[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc Bill. See you next week.

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: duhh why did this sim shown 0.9.1 release notes?

[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i see OpenSim 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev, git 2020-11-10T05:49:13+00:00, Mono 6.12.0.86

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: on viewer about

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: guess a missing change on ini

[11:38] Ubit Umarov: i think i did it on main

[11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: nod

[11:39] Kayaker Magic: My viewer about page says 0.9.2 Yeti

[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: last download on front page is (0.9.1.1)

[11:39] Kayaker Magic: You are at 357.3, 410.1, 24.6 in Dev Outreach located at (107.150.48.210:9830)

SLURL: hop://login.osgrid.org/Dev%20Outreach/357/410/25

(global coordinates 2839140.0, 2560670.0, 24.6)

OpenSim 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev, git 2020-11-10T05:49:13+00:00, Mono 6.12.0.86 (Unix/Mono)

[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: well a local region issue

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: it is well defined on opensimdefaults

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: [ServerReleaseNotes]

;; Comment or set to "" to disable

ServerReleaseNotesURL = "http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.9.2.0_Release"

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: duhh

[11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: not much on that page

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: that was working

[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.9.2.0_Release/fr

[11:42] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.9.2.0_Release

[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hi Gavin

[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: evening everyone

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: guess adding that did broke the en one

[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: all apple edumucated ?

[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was not particularly impressed with what they introduced

[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh

[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all limited to 16 GB memory

[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Gavin.

[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a development machine will set me back $1100

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.9.2.0

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby.

[11:45] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone

[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi selby

[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: $1100 isn't too bad for a dev machine.

[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hi Selby

[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: heh

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.9.2.0_Release works

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: given it most likely will not be able to run the viewer at all, and not Windows in a VM...

[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that doesn't sound like a good dev machine.

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no :-))

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.9.2.0_Release

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you release 0.9.2?

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: odd no idea why my other paste didn't work

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: no but notes are ready

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: kinda

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: aha

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: futureware

[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Any particular issues delaying a new release?

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: well valid for osgrid and others

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: several tons of code i know i should change

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: some i partially did

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: and no testing done

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: guess ill need to just stop changes...

[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no testing?

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: let osgrid do another release and fix bugs

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: not much testing no

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok

[11:49] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: or do a pre release, release and post fixes release

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: osgrid releases do extend the testing a bit

[11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: release candidate

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: osg is kinda that

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: guess ends up having more users than a pre from us

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is always a GM before a release

[11:51] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: GM?

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: most ppl that would look to a pre, already use master

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: golden master

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: then osgrdi releases

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: and the lastbuilds

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Download

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: TestPackage there

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apple always send a GM to the devs a week before it hits public distribution, so they can catch last minute disasters

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: i do that to dan

[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: poor lbsa :)

[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just under 10 minutes to the top of the hour. Gavin and Selby: Do either of you have any thing you want to discuss today?

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: yesterday he did update

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: less than 5min later i told.. ok update it

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: :p

[11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: No -- No problems

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was a new RLV and non RLV Windows version out at the end of last week

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the RLV version had quite a few updates for a change

[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... RLV?

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as always at https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/

[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: uhm you dont know what rlv is?

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: RLV = restrained life viewer

[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I probably did at one point but I forgot.

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: something the RP community use

[11:55] Kayaker Magic: Perhaps he should ask his mother/priest/rabi

[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, right. yea. I tend to forget the meaning of those initials.

[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have not implemented the black screen in RLV as I find it preposterous someone sitting there looking at a black screen for hours

[11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: any ideas for new features Ubit?

[11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh, are you into RLV modes then Gavin?>

[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: several.. viewer dependent :)

[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-))

[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have a super limited test case for it

[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, instead of a black screen you could make it very dark.

[11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well then dont you find any restriction prepostorous>?

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: viewers are the main thing that define features

[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I actually do Arielle

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: we can add ossl etc

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: btw sleby tested object teleports?

[11:58] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: those who like the rlv stuff, really like it and there is quite a few

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: and Selby...

[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I know Arielle, which is why I maintain it despite the pain

[11:58] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Not yet, Ubit -- on my to do list

[11:58] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it makes them giddy

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ok

[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, what other OSSL commands are under consideration to be added?

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: a few requests on mantis that im ignoring i think :p

[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. :)

[11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: link?

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: only remember there are a few :)

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: some from djphil

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: but don't thing any major thing

[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: There are quite a few open mantis reports related to OSSL.

[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Wow. This past half hour flew by.

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: sGetGroupName and osGetGroupKey2Name is one of those requests

[12:03] Kayaker Magic: Andrew, I'm still running on Ubuntu and have no voice on FireStorm. Skype works with my microphone on this OS, Zoom works with my microphone, FireStorm voice does not. What are you doing different than I am doing?

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: well i actually did getgroup name lol

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: but on other module

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: for me im voice does not work

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: tried some debug and seems vivox only thing

[12:04] Kayaker Magic: Andrew says it works for him, I want to replicate that.

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: ims are peer to peer

[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has IM voice ever worked?

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: viewer tells vivox to connect and it does not.. times out

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: yes it did

[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when?

[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I didn't think I'm doing anything different.

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: think you and i tested it a few months ago even lol

[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I'm currently running -> Firestorm 6.4.11 (62412) Oct 22 2020 14:03:30 (64bit) (Firestorm-Nightly-CI) with OpenSimulator support

[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: possibly

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: bc fs was using a old version and you the last one

[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: group voice sure does not work

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: i changed my fs to use same and we tested

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: if i rmemeber well

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: now.. poff dead

[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hmmm

[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have to test it with a couple avatars tomorrow

[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Voice is enabled and "allow voice in multiple viewer instances simultaneously" is also enabled.

[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now that macOS let me use the mic again

[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Audio device settings are set to "ALSA Capture on default" for Input.

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: the invite simple does not arrive

[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Output is set to Default

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: think once did.. ages later

[12:08] Kayaker Magic: Audio device is "default" (which is the mic jack on the front of the PC), However it is grayed out and will not let me select other microphones, (like the on on my WEB cam)

[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, for my sound settings at the system level I just have the Mic input pointed at my web cam mic.

[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, long ago I did an IM voice chat. At least, I think I did. Did I say it was a long time ago. :)

[12:10] Kayaker Magic: At the system level, I can choose different mics, test them, see the bar move... The mic jack worked best with Skype.

[12:11] Ubit Umarov: think last i did in ages was with gavin ( if we actually did it )

[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Wasn't there a time where Vivox wanted you to accept some ToS? I haven't had to do that in ages.

[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I will make a test tomorrow

[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not the Vovox TOS is in the About box on new viewers

[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they don't ask you to accept it

[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now*

[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. I don't see anything like that in this copy of FS.

[12:14] Kayaker Magic: Vivox required an account to run on your regions, at various times they stoped/starting issuing those accounts.

[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then FS does not follow theor developer TOS

[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: their*

[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: They require a product using their serive to display the Acceptable Use Policy (AUP)

[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: service*

[12:18] Kayaker Magic:

[12:18] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go -- bye all

[12:18] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: waves

[12:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: me too

[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tc Selby

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: cya

[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bye Selby.

[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye Popstar

[12:19] Kayaker Magic: poof, violated the 15 second warning law

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: :)

[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to wrap up the meeting. Any last minute items?

[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: she always does that

[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: Kayaker, it has gone from a rule to a law? ;)

[12:20] Kayaker Magic: :)

[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing further then this meeting is at an end. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.