Chat log from the meeting on 2010-03-17

[10:11] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev)        1d4d6c8: 2010-02-09 20:25:24 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [10:12] Tesira Luco is Offline [10:20] Key Gruin is Offline [10:21] Dahlia Trimble: no meeting today? [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: hey [10:21] Key Gruin is Online [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya daylight savings [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: crap [10:21] Dahlia Trimble: lol [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: i see some people over there [10:21] Dahlia Trimble: did the meeting time change? [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: guess we should head over [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: no but its only 11:20 here [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: im used to it being at noon [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: we dont do DST here in Arizona [10:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh [10:22]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: Daylight savings time screwed me up [10:22]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:22] CW Finesmith: hello [10:22] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [10:23]  Dahlia Trimble was shopping in the new mall :D [10:23]  Dahlia Trimble: hmmm nobody here complaining, must not be any bugs left [10:24]  Adelle Fitzgerald is Online [10:24]  quaezar Agnomen: Greetings! :) [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: i just mentioned in the -dev channel aboiut the meeting [10:24] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [10:24]  CW Finesmith: hello [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: being this is the 1st meeting of Day Light savings time its probably gonna be screwed up pretty good [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:24]  quaezar Agnomen: :) Hello Dahlia and Nebadon.. hope you are doing well :) [10:24] quaezar Agnomen: Nice AV CW :) [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: things are good :) [10:24]  Dahlia Trimble: ty quaezar, you too :) [10:25] quaezar Agnomen: Ok! good to hear :) [10:25] CW Finesmith: thanks far from finished [10:25]  quaezar Agnomen: Here also running ok :) [10:25] quaezar Agnomen: Hi Adelle :) [10:25]  Adelle Fitzgerald: hello all [10:25]  quaezar Agnomen: Good start :) [10:25] CW Finesmith: logins are a little unstable [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: hello Adelle [10:25] Master Dubrovna: Hi everybody [10:25] CW Finesmith: well if youll excuse me [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: i heard a few people say they have had trouble logging in [10:26]  CW Finesmith: i can see im intruding [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: i personally have not had any troubles [10:26] Adelle Fitzgerald: me neither [10:26] quaezar Agnomen: No .. not at all [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: i wonder if there is some kind of network stuff going on out there [10:26] Adelle Fitzgerald: its possible [10:27] Adelle Fitzgerald: things have been pretty stable for me of late, when the regions are actually running [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya Lbsa has been flakey a bit [10:27] Adelle Fitzgerald: except Lbsa taht is hehe [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: so its possible thats been effecting peoples login experiences [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: if your sim is down and Lbsa is down [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: that means login is imposisble [10:27] Adelle Fitzgerald: right [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: unless you change location [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: that would be my guess [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: double crashes [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: but i dunno could also be some kind of network wierdness out there [10:29] Adelle Fitzgerald: one thing i have noticed with my regions lately, is they will consume 100% of a core for about 10 seconds and then drop off again [10:29] Adelle Fitzgerald: its no particular region either, all of them, and seems kinda random [10:29] Adelle Fitzgerald: its not a dudgy script either, as it happens on Dellie on the test grid, that has no scripts or prims [10:29] Adelle Fitzgerald: *dodgy [10:31] Dahlia Trimble: mine have been working well but I think some physics was broken in a few revisions just prior to the merge so physics isnt working too well on them [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: this region has been doing pretty well [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: Bade plaza has been doing horrible [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: but i turned of HG and its been running better since then it seems [10:32] Penny Lane: Greetings. :-) [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: Bade Plaza like 1-2 times per day was hitting 400% cpu [10:32]  Adelle Fitzgerald: hmm, my sentance got lost i think [10:32]  Adelle Fitzgerald: ive noticed strangeness in physics after Rev's patches went in [10:32]  Dahlia Trimble: penny woke up? [10:32]  Adelle Fitzgerald: ahh there it is hehe [10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: day or 2 ago it was always at 400% cpu even when it just started [10:33]  Nebadon Izumi: so i shut of HG, restarted and it was normal again [10:33]  Adelle Fitzgerald: cool [10:33]  Penny Lane: Heh. Lbsa social community seems to cope with the flakiness. Community is pretty robust, whatever hardships in the world :-) [10:33] Adelle Fitzgerald: though how HG should affect it like that is bizarre [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya but im not sure why [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya very odd [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: i really didnt think it would fix it [10:33]  Nebadon Izumi: but i was mostly just starting to disable things to see what could be the issue [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: and just so happened that doing that fixed it [10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure if it was coincidence or not, but easily 4-5 restarts prior to doing that it was stuck at 400% cpu [10:34] Dahlia Trimble: I should probably hang out at lbsa once and a while, I hardly ever go there [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya i need to spend some more time there too [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ive been here mostly though fixing this region up [10:34]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i dont spend much time there these days [10:35] Adelle Fitzgerald: when i do go there, i dont know anyone [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: hello Mic [10:35] Mic Bowman: hi neb [10:35] Adelle Fitzgerald: hi Mic [10:35] Dahlia Trimble: hi Mic :) [10:35]  Mic Bowman: hey... [10:36]  Mic Bowman: neb... did you get the email about the 0.7 test grid we have up? [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: I did mic, but i havent had a chance to check it out yet [10:36]  Dahlia Trimble: how's ScienceSim these days? [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: i did bring up the website [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: we have been setting up a new test grid here also [10:36]  Mic Bowman: seems to be running OK... :-) [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: i just have not had time yet [10:37] Mic Bowman: we brought up the simian grid infrastructure servers (the php code) and are running a test grid against that [10:37] Mic Bowman: it seems to be running very well [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: I did read some of the dialouge between you guys on the email thread [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:38] Dahlia Trimble: does that use the services connectors hurli was working on? [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya OSgrid needs to figure out where we are heading with our website and getting this grid up on the current OSgrid source [10:38] Mic Bowman: yes... [10:38] Mic Bowman: so we're more or less running stock opensim [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:38] Mic Bowman: on the betagrid [10:38] Dahlia Trimble: cool [10:39] Mic Bowman: i have a few module patches that i need to move over... but with the simian connectors... we're in pretty good shape [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya the OpenSimulator back end has changed pretty drasticly [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: its forcing us to redo our web interface [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: were looking to replace Elgg with something home made [10:39] Mic Bowman: the nice part about the php services... the web interface is "built in" [10:40] Dahlia Trimble: is it released? [10:40] Mic Bowman: (now if i only had time to write up a bunch of the modules to take advantage of that :-) [10:40] Dahlia Trimble: lol [10:40] Mic Bowman: i think so... let me get the url for you [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya at some point OSgrid is going to have to consider some kind of php service likely [10:40] Dahlia Trimble: was that the stuff jradford was working on? [10:41] Orion Hax: so much to do so little time [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: we'll probably start kicking up web development in a week or two [10:41] Mic Bowman: yes... its jradford code plus stuff john added [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: once Adam and Dave are back on more normal schedules [10:41] Mic Bowman: http://openmetaverse.googlecode.com [10:41] Dahlia Trimble: ty :) [10:42]  Mic Bowman: neb: what's the plan for osgrid moving to the new services? [10:42]  Mic Bowman: there is no backward compatibility for the simulators, right? [10:43]  Nebadon Izumi: correct [10:43]  Nebadon Izumi: right now we have 2 things to work out [10:43]  Nebadon Izumi: a migration path for the databases [10:43]  Nebadon Izumi: and the web interface [10:43]  Nebadon Izumi: Melanie and Diva said the migration stuff will be done soon [10:43]  Nebadon Izumi: of course will need alot of testing before we do it on our live tables [10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: but right now the web interface is our biggest issue [10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: its probably going to take few weeks/months to get the web interface done [10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: no doubt will be what holds us up in the end [10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: currently there are no web interfaces that work with OpenSimulator core [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: so were starting from scratch basiclly [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: we have a big list of things we want/need/already have [10:45] Orion Hax: I think function is more important with the new interface, i think people will be able to deal with an interface thats ugly as sin as long as it works [10:45] Dahlia Trimble: what about migrating to danger as a test? [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: thats what danger grid is for [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: it will test migrations and the web interface [10:45] Dahlia Trimble: (danger = osgrid testing of new services architecture) [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: but its going to be atleast 1-2 weeks before we can really get started on the web intereface [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://nossl.danger.osgrid.org [10:46] Dahlia Trimble: I mean the assets and accounts and all that could migrate tho? [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: but right now there is no migration [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: its yet to be written [10:46] Dahlia Trimble: could the server handle it? [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: no [10:46]  Nebadon Izumi: probably not [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to limit like 1000 records or something [10:47] Mic Bowman: what about offline migration... [10:47]  Mic Bowman: that's what we've been talking about doing... [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: its possible [10:47] Mic Bowman: dump the DB... convert it and re-add all the records [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: might be the only solution im not really sure [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: im just not sure all the changes are done 100% [10:47] Mic Bowman: its a bit easier to test to make sure it works [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: for us to even do it manually yet [10:47] Mic Bowman: rather than trying an "in-place" migration that *cannot* fail [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats the only reason its not automatic yet [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: but ya either way [10:48] Friendly Harbour: hello everyone [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: i wouldnt be suprised if its only a manual method [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: its a pretty complex change [10:48] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: alot of tables are going away [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: being split up [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: some are just going away [10:49]  Dahlia Trimble: I havent looked at any of the databases (and I dont really want to) [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: database stuff is no fun [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: especially when the tables are as large as this grid is [10:50]  Dahlia Trimble: I've had my share of databases [10:50]  Mic Bowman: do you have numbers on table size? i know that asset DB is huge... and probably inventory... are those the main concerns? [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: let me get [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec [10:51]  Penny Lane: That's what happens when you use a centralized database paradigm. These are early days. Your problems are going to get MUCH bigger than now in the future if you stick to a centralized database. [10:51] Dahlia Trimble: I dont even know what the asset server architecture for osgrid looks like anymore since it migrated to coyled's ruby thing [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: inventoryitems - 5,931,637 - 2.1 GiB [10:52] Orion Hax: thats tiny [10:52] Alby Damden is Offline [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: we are at about 9 million assets [10:52] Mic Bowman: penny: a single administrative service isn't a big deal... so long as it supports a distributed implementation... [10:52] Dahlia Trimble: inventory is all pointers, lots of records, but it's small [10:52] Penny Lane: Agreed Mic [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:52]  Penny Lane: But currently the implementation is not distributed [10:52] Mic Bowman: the simian grid stuff looks like we'll be able to scale it out that way pretty easily [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: were well over 200gb of assets [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: were probably nearer to 250gb by now [10:53] Mic Bowman: thanks, neb... [10:53] Dahlia Trimble: I'd prefer to serve my own assets for my regions if the architecture supports it [10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: http://assets.osgrid.org/stats/graph.php?graph=9 [10:53] Penny Lane: Dahlia++ [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: nearing 9 million assets [10:53] Richardus Raymaker is Online [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: of which 20-25% are dupes [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: compressed to 1 asset [10:54] Mic Bowman: dahlia: agreed... as a general principle... though a "big" grid needs to support scalability [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: 9 million in database [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: 25% less on disc [10:54] Penny Lane: VWRAP will support it, same as Cable Beach. All asset and object storage distributed into services. [10:54] Dahlia Trimble: I think tying some assets to specific regions may help scalability [10:54] Mic Bowman: has anyone done any analysis of the cachability of requests & how long it takes for assets to go stale? [10:54] Dahlia Trimble: at least region specific assets [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: well i think if anyone wants any level of security here [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: its the only option [10:54] Mic Bowman: (back to acting like a systems researcher...) [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: to run your own services [10:55] Dahlia Trimble: only a little, anecdotally [10:55] bricktop allen: hi [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: nothings full proof [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: but its certainly better than public servers [10:56] Penny Lane: Each region has to be able use whatever asset service it wants, ***AND*** at the same time handle all the other asset services used by all objects and all avatars in this region. That distributes the load over the entire Internet, and regions handle no storage, just links to items in services. [10:56] Dahlia Trimble: I find that my caches go stale when they cache data from surrounding regions [10:56] Mic Bowman: i modified the code to turn on last access updates... just to look at a way of doing hierarchical storage of assets... [10:56] Mic Bowman: i need to finish that [10:56] Dahlia Trimble: Penny, agreed [10:57] Dahlia Trimble: hierarchical, in what sense? [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: heh wierd my avatar keeps typing even when ive not hit any keys [10:57] Mic Bowman: typically... HSS operate by creating multiple levels of cache... [10:57]  Penny Lane: Neb: you outsourcing your typing again? ;-) [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:58]  Mic Bowman: so you could, for example, take any asset that hadn't been accessed in a "long time" and move it out of the database on to a separate storage system [10:58]  Dahlia Trimble: you mean like by access frequency? [10:58]  Mic Bowman: not be frequency so much as time... [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: ah nice Mic [10:58]  Dahlia Trimble: so a LRU? [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: Adam has talked about that too [10:58]  Mic Bowman: yup [10:58]  Dahlia Trimble: that would help Im sure [10:58]  Mic Bowman: only a "bad miss" in a HSS can take "hours" to resolve [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [10:58]  Mic Bowman: because the misses happen rarely [10:59]  Dahlia Trimble: I thought the prior asset server for osgrid had LRU, but I'm not sure it was fully implemented [10:59]  Mic Bowman: so cache on the regions, the database is the next level of cache, and a large disk array is the authoritative copy [10:59] Penny Lane: Primary, secondary, tertiary ..... storage. Yeah, that helps, but it presupposes that you're storing everything *somewhere*. That's not good enough --- let the leaves of the tree bear the burden of storage. [10:59] Penny Lane: Keeping your own stuff in tiered storage, sure, that makes sense. [10:59] Mic Bowman: penny... putting it at the leaves has its own share of problems [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: I do currently have some local asset storage on a few of my regions [11:00] Mic Bowman: there are no access guarantees [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: but it's not in OpenSim core [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: hi jcc :) [11:00]  Adelle Fitzgerald: hello Justin [11:01]  Mic Bowman: every region already has some notion of "asset store"... all the details for the prims are stored in the region DB... its things like textures & scripts that don't get pulled in locally [11:01]  Penny Lane: Mic: indeed, that's why you combine the two things --- cache (non-authoritative) the recent accessed assets, and only check if they've changed remotely. If remote site is down, local cached data prevails. [11:01]  Mic Bowman: and that is something that would be a big help [11:01]  Mic Bowman: we use flotsam heavily to absorb as many of those requests as possible [11:01]  Dahlia Trimble: Mic, I mean I have multiple asset sources [11:02]  Mic Bowman: yeah... that's *IDEAL* for exporting assets... and the regions need to absorb them correctly [11:02]  Dahlia Trimble: it looks in my personal asset server first, then to OSGrid's [11:02]  Penny Lane: As Dahlia says. Even a single person's assets don't all come from the same place. [11:02] Mic Bowman: both sides need to be done correctly (copy on rez!!) [11:03] Penny Lane: Always use the phrase "non-authoritative" when talking about caching remote data, otherwise the content creators blow a fuse. Helps lubricate things a bit. [11:04] Dahlia Trimble: it serves 2 purposes, it allows me to control distribution of sensitive content, and it relieves OSGrid of the need to store content that isn't meant to be shared across regions [11:05] Mic Bowman: dahlia: completely agree... [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi [11:05]  Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello richardus [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hey Justin [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi nebadon [11:06] Penny Lane: Indeed. And what's more, it allows you to automatically grant a region permission to distribute to all local participants the assets you are wearing when you enter that region. No central grid book-keeping. [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: oh and penny [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i guess we need to make that yearly decision if we change the time of the meeting [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yes - I'm in favour of the usual shuffle, of course ;) [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: its just started [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: usually a few weeks of craziness [11:06]  Penny Lane: Richardus: there's a lot of us here, as you'll see in a few mins :-) [11:06] Dahlia Trimble: plz change it :) [11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: i see everybody already yes. [11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: so, im to early or to late in sogrid :O [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: EU still does not change time for a few weeks right? [11:07]  Strawberry Fride: hehe - yep [11:07]  Strawberry Fride: end of the month [11:07]  Penny Lane: Fortnight I think. Start of April [11:07]  Strawberry Fride: 28th [11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm if correct next week [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ok well maybe just keep it as is for now [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: kind of loose 2 hour meeting until then [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: then make the change [11:08]  Strawberry Fride: it's the day before I fly to the US so it's just gonna confuse me :) [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: Sunday, March 28 Sunday, October 31 [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2010.html [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, sunday 28 for europe [11:08] Penny Lane: TZ change + jet lag, a wonderful combination ;-) [11:08]  Strawberry Fride digs for hair in inventory... [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ok well few more weeks of this isnt too bad then we can make due [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: so. im to late today ? [11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: ahhh, I see - it was last Sunday for you US guys [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: not really, we can keep chatting [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i was confused too im in Arizona [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: our time never changes [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: so its really confusing for me [11:09]  Penny Lane: Hehe [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: when everyone else does [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: really? I thought it was uniform accross the us [11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: so, news about the bump ? [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: no few pocckets dont do it [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: Arizona is one of the states [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhhh :) [11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: summer time :(( [11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh man, I really should be keeping better track of these time things - i thought it was still a few weeks off.... [11:10]  Penny Lane: Didn't realize there's no TZ in Arizona. That's enlightenened. Did some politician make a mistake? [11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: so best to life on hawaii or arizona then [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: no its our pivot point [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: apparantly if we did do it [11:11]  Penny Lane: Hehe [11:11]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev)        1d4d6c8: 2010-02-09 20:25:24 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:11]  Strawberry Fride: it's been that way a long time I think - I remember visiting the grand canyon and although we crossed a timezone there was no clock change [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: the sun would not set until after 10pm at night [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: so we dont do it for that reason [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: one state thats smart [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, maybe I'll make the usual post to the mailing lists then - which will mean this meeting is effectively an hour later for people in the US (except arizona and other crazy bits :) for next week's meeting [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: but yeah, I'm sure people could just hang around for 2 hours anyway (where do you guys get the time? :) [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: kk sounds good [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya i will make sure im here atleast [11:11] Strawberry Fride: multitaskarama [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: im always here anyway [11:12] Strawberry Fride: my little boy has a cold so has gone to bed early - hence why I can sit here tonight :) [11:12]  Penny Lane: JCC: it's a no-brainer to prioritize non-work over work ^_^ [11:12]  Strawberry Fride: hehe - but what if this IS work Penny? :) [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: are you US yet? [11:12] Strawberry Fride: I fly in 13 days [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: well, I can kind of justify this as work to keep some grip on what's going on :) [11:12]  Penny Lane: Strawberry: ouch :-) [11:13] Penny Lane nods [11:13] Strawberry Fride: yeah - I have filled in so many forms, and there are more to come [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: time changes have me leaving "early"... bye all :) [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [11:13]  Penny Lane: Cyu Dahlia [11:13]  Strawberry Fride: seeya Dahlia :) [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: kk Dahlia, see ya [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming :) [11:13]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:13]  Mic Bowman: gotta run too [11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: did i missed something important ? [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: k Mic, thanks man, i will do my best to try the new grid here soon [11:13]  Mic Bowman: neb: let me know how things progress with the plans for upgrading [11:13]  Mic Bowman: thanks! [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i sure wi9ll [11:14]  Penny Lane: Cyu Mic [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: will*, talk soon [11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: been testing more with the 0.7 test grid? [11:14]  bricktop allen: hi everyone [11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi bricktop [11:14]  Penny Lane: Hi bric [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: a little our test grid is functional [11:14]  Richardus Raymaker: hi bric [11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: next step is work out the database migration [11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: then work out the web interface [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: the grid one nebadon ? sofar i know the region side where not a big problem [11:15] Strawberry Fride: question - on this revision can you use latest clients (1.23 / latest hippo) to enable voice? we have encountered a stumbling block on 0.6.6 where we can't change voice parcel settings with latest hippo [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: 0.6.6, hmm thats very old [11:15] Strawberry Fride: I think the estate setting for enabling voice isn't picked up on our grid [11:16] Strawberry Fride: yeah but it's our prefered rev for now [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: lotsa work [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:16]  Nebadon Izumi: things are going though [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: I vaguely remember some changes in that area fairly recently [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: we have a big list of things we want/need/alread have for the web interface [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: it was working with the older hippo client? [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but probably will be a few more weeks until we are heavy into the web interface stuff [11:16] Strawberry Fride: yeah the settings menu was totally different [11:17] Strawberry Fride: in about land, media - the bottom of that tab has changed considerably 1.22 to 1.23 [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I would find it fairly odd if the backend settings have changed... but I realy don't know [11:17] WhiteStar Magic is Online [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: i had to go back to old Hippo [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: the new hippo has many things broken [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: land sales is one of them [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: transfer of land [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear the new hippo has some annoying update thing as well? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: wow [11:18] Strawberry Fride: I haven't had trouble there that I know of [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: also screenshots were broken for me [11:18]  Strawberry Fride: but will check [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there are a few bug reports on forge [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: i ended up going back to 0..1 [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: 0.5.1 [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: so mjm came back to do more hippo or is someone else doing it now? [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there is a setting in a xml file you can edit [11:18] zaphrod zenovka is Offline [11:18] WhiteStar Magic: Good Afternoon everyone [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: to disable the auto update check [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: let me get you guys the page [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: hello whitestar [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: hi whitetstar [11:19] Strawberry Fride: hiya WhiteStar [11:19] bricktop allen: im currently pulling my hair out trying to get a region running on a dedicated server [11:19] Penny Lane: Hippo makers are out of tune with open source altogether. I can't even install it, because they supply a closed binary executable to run, instead of an archive to unpack. [11:19] WhiteStar Magic: / [11:19] bricktop allen: im sur eits the ini files ive made incorrectly [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: http://bit.ly/bfBNJW [11:20] WhiteStar Magic: anyone try the new Imprudence Beta 2 ? yet [11:20] Strawberry Fride: I have schools complain that they can't install hippo because of the external dependancies, BUT no other client seems to have working voice [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya i agree penny [11:20] Strawberry Fride: aside from SL client naturally [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunatly none of the other viewers are useable [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: by me [11:20]  Strawberry Fride: agreed neb [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: im stuck on hippo [11:20] bricktop allen: i have hippo installed [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i still cant use imprudence [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: thx nebadon [11:20] bricktop allen: it works fine [11:20] bricktop allen: on windows however 32 bit [11:20] Strawberry Fride: hippo just works - I would be happy with 0.5.1 with just that one addition of the grid drop down on the loader screen [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: id love to have something to replcae hippo with though [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: why not? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: something with more support [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: it crashes constantly [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: has no sound in video [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: im happy with imprudence 1.2.0 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: it just poofs away all the time on me [11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: with SL dll addon [11:21] WhiteStar Magic: Imprudence runs fine on my system, Win-7/64 [11:21] Penny Lane: WhiteStar: thanks for notice, didn't realize Imprudence Beta 2 was out. I'm on Beta 1 atm, it's the best viewer, period, for me (Linux 32-bit). Will grab Beta 2. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: im on Win7 x64 too [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: here to whitestart alos win7/64 [11:21] WhiteStar Magic: but I stick with SL+CoolViewer for now [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i tried 1.3 Beta 2 other night [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: no change for me [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: same bugs all were there since 1.3 [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: 1.3 gives me some flicker with avatar shirt. [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: 1.3 beta 1 had no sound at all [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: beta 2 its just videos [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but its the same in 1.2 also [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: no sound in videos [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: yes.. [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i do alot of stuff with videos so for me [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: thats a deal breaker [11:22] Penny Lane: Neb: wish I knew what your local troubles are. If McCabe knew, they would be fixed pronto. [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so far only Hippo 0.5.1 works without issues [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya i wish i had time to properly report issues [11:23] WhiteStar Magic: Hippo 6.2 worked for me, BUT it was crashy, as in once every 40 minutes on average [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: my only fear though [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: is like meerkat [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i'll spend time debugging and reporting errors [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: and nebadon use almost the same videocard as me to.. onoy cpu is different :O [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: only for it all to disappear [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: and i wasted alot of time [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I wish someone would concentrate on producing a very basic viewer that just worked :) [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: its almost impossible for me to get into supporting these LL browsers [11:24]  WhiteStar Magic: NVidia 9800GTS here but I did not update my driver bundle to latest as it has issues reported [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: I almost have to not support these viewers [11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: JCC, opensim certified :) [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: just so someone makes one thats not LL based [11:24] Friendly Harbour: i'm on winxp/32bit and hippp 0.6.2 and haven't had any problems so far [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: cause in a few months all these viewers will be pretty useless in LL [11:25]  Richardus Raymaker: SL viewer are the worst. i use SL1 now in sl again. and it crash much more [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: Does anyone every think a viewer could be sold commercially - like Netscape back in the very early days? [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: when they force everyone to 2.0 [11:25] WhiteStar Magic: +1 Richardus, some form of OpenSim Compatible cert would not be bad, but a major pain to do, would likely push away some viewer folks [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: or 2.1 [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: is supposed to be the cut off [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: but thats like 5 months away [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: >sl2, then i start to scream. :P [11:26] bricktop allen: no [11:26]  bricktop allen: why would someone buy a view [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but who knows [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: they will probably change that plan [11:26] bricktop allen: when plenty opensorce [11:26] bricktop allen: once something opensource [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: its just hard to get excited about LL based viewers [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: bricktop: larger commercial institutions might if they want something more reliable for virtual world applications [11:26] bricktop allen: opensource is one of the best i come across [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment the choices are pretty poor... [11:26] bricktop allen: with lots of community willing to help [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: not saying closed source [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: i mean a viewer thats just optimized and designed for osgrid. no sl bling bling then you can add other nice things to more easy [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: just saying something not in the grip of LL [11:27]  bricktop allen: ok [11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: rex? [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: that would be great [11:27] bricktop allen: its an intresting idea [11:27] WhiteStar Magic: How is Nalli making out ? [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: Rex has potential [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: but its going to be very differnt too [11:27] WhiteStar Magic: *Naali [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: but SL2, freakys me out. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and Naali has years [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: before its useable [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be this year [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, there philosophy appears to be doing something very different [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, lotsa man hours required at the very least [11:28] WhiteStar Magic: shame [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya cross platform viewer is monumentally harder than the servers [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: if it wasnt cross platform we would have dozens of viewers by now [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: but no one will support a windows only viewer [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: Rex proved that [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i probably wouldnt either [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: id probably use it [11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: but i wouldnt be preaching it [11:29]  Key Gruin is Offline [11:29] bricktop allen: on a dedicated server if the port is not 9000 wil this cuase problems trying to get a region up? and also can someone tell me how i find out what my server host name is [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: if all the hard cross-platform work is done by future 3d standards for the web then that might become easier [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: no brick [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: as long as the ports are free [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it should be fine [11:30] bricktop allen: whats a hostname [11:30] bricktop allen: on a server? [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: i dont use 9000. and it works [11:30] bricktop allen: localhost? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats the problem Justincc there are so many formats [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: none are really truly cross platform [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: like unity is great [11:31] Penny Lane: Neb: I think I've confirmed your crash bug on video. It's only your video though :-) [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: its possible the video is whats causing my viewer to poof away [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: but alot of times i will just be camming with Imprudence [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: and viewer just dispears [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: its hard to be productive with it [11:31]  Penny Lane: But even if your video is wonky, that's no reason for a viewer to get blown away. [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: hippo for me literally never crashes [11:32]  Richardus Raymaker: im told its openjpeg. thats why the asked me to ad some SL dll to imprudence. since that its very stable [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: or ask others to use it either [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: i really cant use a viewer that crashes all day [11:32]  WhiteStar Magic: my biggest issue (show stopper) with Imprudence is teh lack of being able to cam below ground or underneath to look up. Refises to do it [11:32] WhiteStar Magic: *refuses [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: whitestar, you can cam beelow ground. [11:32] Penny Lane: Nor Imprudence ... until your video :P I'll test again after the meeting, and then report it on the Imprudence forums. [11:33] WhiteStar Magic: no I can't [11:33]  Richardus Raymaker: setting hidden under prefernces [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: you can disable it [11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: i had similar issues with Meerkat too Penny [11:33] WhiteStar Magic: Ahhhh didn't know about that [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: with the very last version of meerkat [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: has almost identical issues ot the latest imprudence [11:33] WhiteStar Magic: thei website is gone now too [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: preferences -> input/camera -->> disable camera contrsants [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ah its moved into input/camera [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i dont even have it installed at the moment [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i wipped all my viewers and went back to 0.5.1 nice and clean [11:34] bricktop allen: hwo long doe sit take for a regiont o become searchable if i ever get mine up and running lol [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: im swimming in viewers on pc. and still not have the right one :) [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and i use snowglobe for SL [11:34]  bricktop allen: yer i used snowglobe it good [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i had like 10 viewers [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i finally purged them all off [11:34]  bricktop allen: you seen ther ebeta veriosn yet? [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: an settled on just the 2 [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: i saw there was one [11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: only 4 and i use them all [11:35]  Penny Lane: Well, it's all transitional anyway. We need to get off LL-based viewers. [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: but i didnt like the 2.0 viewer much [11:35]  bricktop allen: i got the beta verison but hate it [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: and until its mandatory im not using it [11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: +1 nebado about sl2 [11:35]  bricktop allen: i hate the complxeity [11:35]  bricktop allen: it like being a newbie again [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: ya getting off LL based viewers would be ideal [11:35] bricktop allen: when you first joined this type [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i think Naali is probably the only chance of that right now [11:35] WhiteStar Magic: There is the SL2 Based Toxic Viewer which has several UI foxes and patches to make it better [11:35] bricktop allen: i hate change [11:35] bricktop allen: lol [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: the Unity viewers are good [11:36] bricktop allen: baisc is best ever [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but without linux i cant get interested [11:36] bricktop allen: incldng website [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: im preparing to be less and less in sl. when the sl2 viewerr is required and the did not changed interface [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its Odd unity supports Mac but not linux [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: they do claim its coming though [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but the graphics for Unity dont impress me much [11:37] bricktop allen: as anyone got ther eown region succesfully running [11:37] Penny Lane: Emerald is adding 2.0 stuff, and very importantly, adding the security checkboxes to disable Javascript and Flash execution in MoaP, which LL failed to provide. [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it reminds me of Nintento Wii [11:37] Penny Lane: MoaP == Media on a Prim [11:37] WhiteStar Magic: we all do Bricktop [11:37] bricktop allen: oh right [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya i cant get into support all these viewers [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: is emerald approved for LL, i cant find that list [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:37] bricktop allen: i must be the only one then [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: is emerald really as popular as some people seem to say on the linden grid? [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ive not heard much good about emerald still [11:38] bricktop allen: i have a friend who has emerald she loves it [11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: i heard alot more things wrong than right but to be honest i cant be bothered with testing it [11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: too many viewers all trying to be the same thing [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: i used it too, and now back to SL1. oh thats o terrible compared with emerald. i love emerald [11:38] Penny Lane: Emerald has about 35-40% share. If you run a viewer that shows viewer tags, you can see the Emerald green all over SL [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats my biggest beef with the LL viewers [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: all these teams just taking each tohers code [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: to make the same viewers [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: emerald and imprudence are the best for now [11:38] bricktop allen: i think jsut basic color changes and maybe some graphics would look good [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: Ultimately because they have to orbit around Linden's codebase, I suspect [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: and cant work with each other [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe that's why they don't coalesce [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that too - early days still [11:39] Penny Lane: Emerald devs have no interest in Opensim, sadly. That could change, but no sign of it yet. [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: thats why i cant support that viewer [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: at this point i even recommend people dont use it [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: when they ask me [11:39]  Strawberry Fride: Emerald has chest physics, hence why I can't recommend it [11:39]  bricktop allen: ok folks i tired again changin the ini file it failed handshakes [11:39] Strawberry Fride: aside from the fact that I don't like it much :) [11:39]  WhiteStar Magic: tis my understanding that it is not all teh emerald devs that feel that way [11:39]  Penny Lane: Whereas Imprudence even holds meetings here in OSgrid. [11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: not very educational? :) [11:40] bricktop allen: the problem i hat eis the window closes on crash and not stay open to read full errors lol [11:40] Strawberry Fride: hey teachers, give this to your teenage students! yeah, not gonna happen JCC :) [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya i would love to say lets all use imprudence [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: its just not there yet [11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: penny: oh do they? I didn't know that [11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: heh [11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: brick, sounds like your internal ip is maby false [11:40]  Penny Lane: JCC: Yeah, in Baade [11:40]  bricktop allen: how do i get the internet ip? [11:41]  bricktop allen: ipconfig incmd? [11:41]  Richardus Raymaker: brick, start opensim from dos/console [11:41]  bricktop allen: hang on [11:41]  bricktop allen: im not that savy lol [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: if you have gui there are website that tell you your internet IP [11:41]  bricktop allen: yer i used one [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: http://www.whatismyip.com/ [11:41]  bricktop allen: im on irc chat [11:41]  WhiteStar Magic: [HOW-TO] Install Step X Step on Windows Platforms + http://osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2082 [11:41] WhiteStar Magic: all the info you seek is tehre [11:42] bricktop allen: ok [11:42]  WhiteStar Magic: so, how is teh PR testing on Danger Grid going ?? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so far its going well [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: we have it stable [11:42] Penny Lane: Holding your meetings in Opensim worlds is a mandatory "eat your own dogfood" requirement I think. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: now we just need to get the migration worked out [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: then the Web Interface [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: heh, remember back whgen we used to crash help multiple times a sessino ;) [11:43]  WhiteStar Magic: LOL I like that one Penny, [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: we have a pretty large list of things we are planning for the web interface [11:43]  bricktop allen: lol i got folder on my desktop [11:43]  bricktop allen: im lazy [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: stuff we want/need/already have [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: but its gonna be a few weeks before Dave and Adams schedules are back to normal [11:43]  Richardus Raymaker: that list dont have end [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: before we can really get rocking on the web interface [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: but thats ok [11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: we've actually been fairly stable for a while now - notwithstanding the more tricky than expected presence-refactor transition [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: were still waiting on Mel and Diva for the migration routines [11:44] WhiteStar Magic: Bricktop, tried, true, tested and workes well and numerous followed those instructions without issues except for Router problems [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: bringing old grids up to new grid status [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: any news on that or just waiting? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie said should be very soon [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but no exact etas yet [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i still think were on track though [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: even though its kind of at a standstill at the moment [11:45] bricktop allen: ok [11:45]  bricktop allen: dns [11:45] bricktop allen: is that the server ip? [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:45]  bricktop allen: thats wher ei gone wrong then [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it should be an ip address [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but not yours [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: rbut that seems unlikely if your asking these questions [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: unless your of course also running this machine as a DNS serve [11:46] bricktop allen: im running it on a dedicated server [11:46] Penny Lane: WhiteStar: great post! (even if it is Windows only :P) [11:46] bricktop allen: not on a remote computer [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: k [11:46]  bricktop allen: its on a websever [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: generally DNS is either your router [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: 192.168.0.1 [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or your ISps dns servers [11:46] WhiteStar Magic: LOL.. Penny, I am the windows guy, even if I have done some NIX stuff... besides so many did tuts for NIX I felt it unneccessary to repeat that [11:46] bricktop allen: mmm [11:47] Smile HUD: Please wear me. (HUD) [11:47] bricktop allen: so the dns server i use the ip for that server right [11:47] LisaKathleen Kaligawa: \ [11:47] bricktop allen: thats what i used [11:47] bricktop allen: i used remote [11:48] Penny Lane: WS: hehe, cool. :-) Yes, it's true, mostly Linux people can figure it out, it tends to attract the techies [11:48] Adelle Fitzgerald: bah, i fell asleep, did i miss much? [11:48]  bricktop allen: while logged into server did ipconfig [11:48]  bricktop allen: it gave me the server ip [11:48]  bricktop allen: but this not work [11:48]  bricktop allen: i would pay soemone [11:48]  bricktop allen: but it a risky thing [11:48]  bricktop allen: giving them access to my server [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe Adelle welcome back [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: not much no [11:49]  WhiteStar Magic: and afterward s you change teh password and it's all set [11:49]  Adelle Fitzgerald: nig scrollback for not much hehe [11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: adelle: feel asleep for real? [11:49]  Adelle Fitzgerald: *big [11:49]  Adelle Fitzgerald: yes, Justin [11:49]  Revolution Smythe is Online [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:49]  Friendly Harbour: lol [11:49] Adelle Fitzgerald: too many late nights [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: adelle: I know it's not that thrilling a meeting but still... ;D [11:49] Adelle Fitzgerald: and early starts [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: hi adella [11:50] Friendly Harbour: xD [11:50]  bricktop allen: i guess if your not serverside savy your screwed to create your own regions on a webserver lol [11:50] Adelle Fitzgerald: ill keep my mouth shut next time hehe [11:50] WhiteStar Magic: heya revolution [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya running opensimulator wont be for everyone bricktop [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: it will require some server admin skills [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: well you know, OpenSim isn't an easy thing to get going. You do need a lot of tech knowledge or get hosting with someone else [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: atleast at this stage [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: maybe some day it will be something anyone can just click and get going [11:51] bricktop allen: someoen is already providing that service [11:51] Adelle Fitzgerald: bricktop, it does get easier though, as you gain more knowlegde [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think even apache is at that stage though... :) [11:51] bricktop allen: a clikc and create [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: ya there are a lot of good hosting services [11:51]  Penny Lane: In time it'll be one-click. Not close to that time yet. [11:51]  Adelle Fitzgerald: personally, i find it worth the learning curve [11:51]  bricktop allen: but the prices lol [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: ya ive seen some Amazon ECS click and go hosting services for opensim [11:51]  bricktop allen: lastnight i managed to do it on my own machine [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: but it still requires you have some admin abilities [11:51]  bricktop allen: but local [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: if your going to maximize the use of opensim [11:51]  bricktop allen: not conencted to grid [11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: JCC, yes. but with opensuse apache sinstalles very easy. and xampp is almost click and run [11:52]  bricktop allen: yer i used opensues myself [11:52]  bricktop allen: nice software [11:52] Penny Lane: Shouldn't we be recommending Diva Distro, as the nearest thing to "one-click" so far? [11:52] bricktop allen: maybe i should delete my server and change it to linux [11:52] bricktop allen: lol [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, you could try that [11:52] bricktop allen: after all [11:52] WhiteStar Magic: roflol [11:52] bricktop allen: linux is unbeatable security [11:53] bricktop allen: then tar files ect [11:53] bricktop allen: confuse me [11:53]  bricktop allen: if im strugglin on a windows server lol [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: well gotta have patience [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its gonna take weeks/months to figure it all out [11:53] bricktop allen: ive been at this 48hrs [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: dont get too frustrated if even after a month your still not figured it all out [11:53] bricktop allen: my girlfriend is beingin to get worried about me [11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: for linux i would say. use opensuse. its very easy to get all running. and i tryed different linux versions [11:53] bricktop allen: lol [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ive been here like 3 years now [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: and still cant say i know how to use it all [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:54] Adelle Fitzgerald: and Neb is still grumpy in the mornings :P [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:54] bricktop allen: lol [11:54] Penny Lane: bricktop: get a Linux-savvy girlfriend :P [11:54] Friendly Harbour: lol [11:54] bricktop allen: btw [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:54] bricktop allen: intresting i just htought of something [11:54] bricktop allen: im logged into osgrid [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: wha, they exist? :) [11:55] bricktop allen: would conflicts arise while peraring the region [11:55]  Penny Lane: Indeed they do :-) [11:55] Penny Lane: Rare, granted [11:55] bricktop allen: mmm [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: present company, excepted of course - I'm sure you're all happily settled down though ;) [11:56]  bricktop allen: oh [11:56]  bricktop allen: the server has 3 current ip [11:56]  bricktop allen: i think i put worng one in [11:56]  bricktop allen: i let you aware in 2 minutes if it works [11:56]  Penny Lane: I'm in a pretty unusual local group, the F/M ratio is 3/8 [11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: cool [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: the opensim project has a nice balance [12:00]  Penny Lane: While the database work is going on, is hypergrid access still available if your clothing is in the source region? [12:00]  Penny Lane: Hmmm, scratch that, no. [12:00]  bricktop allen: it failed [12:00]  bricktop allen: i have incorrect hostname [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: your running the osgrid release? [12:01]  bricktop allen: its funny infact [12:01]  bricktop allen: it mention a domain that i dont regonise [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, gotta get going. Goodbye everyone. I'll look to make a post to the mailing list about meeting times later on [12:01] bricktop allen: barret sumet or toehr [12:01] Penny Lane: Cyu JCC [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks Justin [12:01] bricktop allen: bye [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye JCC [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon :) [12:01]  Adelle Fitzgerald: bye Justin [12:01]  WhiteStar Magic: Take Care JCC [12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey waves