Chat log from the meeting on 2010-12-07

[10:45 AM] Dutchy Daredevil is Online

[10:46 AM] Nalates Urriah: hello

[10:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[10:51 AM] Zadark Portal: sorry

[10:51 AM] Greg Dover: ugh why cant i see myself

[10:51 AM] tx Oh is Online

[10:51 AM] Helena Franizzi is Online

[10:52 AM] Nalates Urriah: You rez'd for me...I have had problems with Imprudence rendering my AV. I'm using the Experiemental and it seem to work better.

[10:55 AM] Master Dubrovna: Hi Neb and Nalates

[10:56 AM] Nalates Urriah: Hi Dubrovna

[10:57 AM] tx Oh: moin

[10:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[10:58 AM] tx Oh: how is everything?

[10:58 AM] Greg Dover: anyone know how i get my clothing to download?

[10:58 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Afternoon, everyone

[10:58 AM] Nalates Urriah: Hi

[10:58 AM] Master Dubrovna: Afternoon

[10:58 AM] Greg Dover: i am a cloud and cant edit my appearance

[10:59 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: You may just have to wait a bit.

[10:59 AM] Greg Dover: been waiting like 4 days

[10:59 AM] Greg Dover: lol

[10:59 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: oh

[10:59 AM] tx Oh: me?

[10:59 AM] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[10:59 AM] Greg Dover: yeah really wierd

[10:59 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: If you use your viewer for other grids, clear out your viewers cache then relog.

[10:59 AM] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

[11:00 AM] Greg Dover: i'll give it a try

[11:00 AM] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[11:01 AM] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

[11:01 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: ooh... this region is all decked out for xmas

[11:01 AM] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[11:01 AM] tx Oh: yes

[11:02 AM] Greg Dover: same thing

[11:02 AM] Greg Dover: this is wierd

[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Done a nice job on the place

[11:02 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Greg, do you get any messages when you try changing outfits?

[11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone, thanks Andrew

[11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: how's the clud bug ? any good news ?

[11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi all

[11:03 AM] Greg Dover: yeah it says cant change appearance until shape and skin are downloaded

[11:03 AM] tx Oh: huhu

[11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh well i dont see any clouds here today

[11:03 AM] Nalates Urriah: Hi

[11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: so things seem to be improved a bit

[11:03 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Greg, oh. yeah. That message is a pain.

[11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i dot see any here to.

[11:03 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks

[11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: but yesterday on lbsa i still saw them

[11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i think there is probably some more work ahead still for optimizing log ins a bit

[11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin

[11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya its not 100% yet Richardus

[11:03 AM] tx Oh: yeah, less ghosts

[11:04 AM] Nebadon Izumi: some people do just have screwed up body parts too

[11:04 AM] Greg Dover: yeah i have been a cloud for 4 days

[11:04 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Greg, about the only other thing you can do is take everything off and see if that helps.

[11:04 AM] Nalates Urriah: tx Oh is not a cloud, just not rez'd... invisible.

[11:04 AM] Penny Lane is Online

[11:04 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see Greg at all.

[11:04 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya me either

[11:04 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i saw some error with makeing oar could not find 93 assets ? cache ? or really gone from grid ?

[11:04 AM] Greg Dover: sometimes i am a cloud and sometimes i am nothing

[11:04 AM] Greg Dover: lol

[11:05 AM] Richardus Raymaker: im only cloud when i login first time after i where off for some hours

[11:05 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Greg, right now you are nothing. No cloud, or even floating name

[11:05 AM] Greg Dover: and according to my inventory i am not wearing anything at all

[11:05 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus, thats not that unusual

[11:05 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok.

[11:05 AM] Nebadon Izumi: alot of items brought over with Second Inventory are missing textures

[11:05 AM] Mike Townsend: Hello

[11:05 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok. then forgot what i sayed

[11:05 AM] Nebadon Izumi: or missing prim contents maybe

[11:05 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Greg, that would be because the items you are supposed to be wearing haven't downloaded yet

[11:05 AM] Mike Townsend: Is there a hypergrid terminal around here do you know?

[11:05 AM] Greg Dover: hmm

[11:06 AM] Greg Dover: should it take as long as it has

[11:06 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Mike, I think HG is sorta broken on OSgrid at the moment

[11:06 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i hear HG still broken

[11:06 AM] Mike Townsend: Oh great :-(

[11:06 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i hear HG is set to port 80 ??? here

[11:06 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:06 AM] Nebadon Izumi: thats not the problem

[11:06 AM] Mike Townsend: OK thanks

[11:06 AM] Nebadon Izumi: were actually not 100% sure what the problem is yet

[11:06 AM] Richardus Raymaker: it seems snoopy is looking in HG problem to

[11:07 AM] Mike Townsend: Seems very unstable too

[11:07 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya HG is very experimental still

[11:07 AM] tx Oh: secondlife://hg.osgrid.org:80:regionname/

[11:07 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i would not expect it to be 100% reliable yet

[11:07 AM] Mike Townsend: I was hoping to get to Aurora to try and rent a sim

[11:07 AM] Penny Lane: HG1.5 you're referring to?

[11:07 AM] tx Oh: but another, very special osgrid prob is the trash can

[11:07 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: hum, this avatar minimap bug isn't simply reproducible on a standalone

[11:08 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I honestly dont know if you can hypergrid from OpenSim to Aurora

[11:08 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Youll just have to get there the old fashioned way and log directly in to Aurora

[11:08 AM] Richardus Raymaker: do we have anyway some progress with bug fixes. some think its pretty frozen

[11:08 AM] Penny Lane: Hi Dahlia :-)

[11:08 AM] Mike Townsend: I guess

[11:08 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia

[11:08 AM] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)

[11:08 AM] Mike Townsend: Thanks :-)

[11:08 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia

[11:08 AM] Richardus Raymaker: TX, you point to to sit minimap bug ?

[11:08 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: naything in particular?

[11:09 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: sit minimap?

[11:09 AM] Nebadon Izumi: what is the bug Justin?

[11:09 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: on the minimap, where avatar posisions aren't correct

[11:09 AM] Penny Lane is excitedly playing with new Galaxy Tab like it's Xmas morning :P

[11:09 AM] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya

[11:09 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: What's wrong with the tash can?

[11:09 AM] Nebadon Izumi: thats sitting avatars

[11:09 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: ohhhhhhhhhh

[11:09 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhhhhh, cool - maybe I can reproduce then

[11:09 AM] Richardus Raymaker: it sods a bit like there's no rpgress in other peoples eyes with fixes

[11:09 AM] Richardus Raymaker: sods = sounds

[11:09 AM] Dahlia Trimble: new toy Penny? o.0

[11:09 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: I had a small go the other day and couldn't - that bug is starting to annoy me

[11:09 AM] Penny Lane: Hehe

[11:10 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Penny, galaxy tab?

[11:10 AM] Sarah Kline: theres a wonderful new bouncing bug when you arrive at LBSA..stops after a few mins

[11:10 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya that would be a good one to fix for sure Justin

[11:10 AM] tx Oh: i think there is a lot of progress

[11:10 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: there aren't enough developers looking at these problems to get fixes quickly

[11:10 AM] Richardus Raymaker: why do we all sit in the pound in the shoppin area on minimap ? :P

[11:11 AM] tx Oh: bug fixes and stability

[11:11 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya there is never enough devs to fix all the bugs

[11:11 AM] Richardus Raymaker: I know. but others not. some start to flee to other grids to

[11:11 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: The days are also too short

[11:11 AM] Richardus Raymaker: and the wrong month of year

[11:11 AM] Nebadon Izumi: well thats not such a bad thing Richardus

[11:11 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, that isn't a help

[11:11 AM] Dahlia Trimble: flee to other grids?

[11:11 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: it is coming up for holiday time :)

[11:11 AM] tx Oh: especialy when devs get splited in diverse projects

[11:12 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i hope i know what you mean nebadon :)

[11:12 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I think it's also good - they can concentrate on their own ideas

[11:12 AM] Nebadon Izumi: well the only devs that I know that have split off really

[11:12 AM] Nebadon Izumi: were not able to commit code to OpenSim core anyway

[11:12 AM] Dahlia Trimble: split off?

[11:12 AM] Nebadon Izumi: because of the current policy

[11:13 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i heared yetserday someone says opensim is pretty frozen. only other projects seems to have progress

[11:13 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I would say those people dont know what they are talking about then

[11:13 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:13 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: well, talk is cheap - the proof is in what happens

[11:13 AM] tx Oh: untrue

[11:13 AM] Zadark Portal: ?? Can my team help ??

[11:13 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i mean honestly, Aurora has pretty much 1 or 2 people working on it

[11:13 AM] Richardus Raymaker: bit confusing for me the last time. sorry.

[11:13 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: zadark - your team?

[11:13 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and Fortis has pretty much no one working on it

[11:14 AM] tx Oh: just check the commit logs shows there is no freeze

[11:14 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i dont know of any other projects besides those

[11:14 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: aurora is changing fast but that's partly because they don't carry so many existing users

[11:14 AM] Zadark Portal: We have configured sims as test only. We run them under debug

[11:14 AM] Nalates Urriah: There is what is actually happenng and what people preceive. Twitter has not updated for some time and no one I could find in chat knew what was going on. I came today to see wasup.

[11:14 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i believe you tx. im longer here then today. but its just hard to hear everybody scream. so i know how the devs feel.

[11:14 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Its interesting to read about some of Aurora's features compared to OS when you consider only 1(?) year of work went in to it

[11:15 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I'm personally considering pulling from either Aurora/Fortis or OpenSim core and just publishing my changes in github

[11:15 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya it is interesting, but i still dont know really many people using Aurora

[11:15 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi quizi, qandy

[11:15 AM] Zadark Portal: If we can test for bugs and help narrow down. I have programmers but they not up to speed yet

[11:15 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: how do you mean?

[11:15 AM] Sarah Kline: hi rich

[11:15 AM] Qandy Saw: hey Richardus, everyone :)

[11:15 AM] Richardus Raymaker: something says. stay with opensim :)

[11:15 AM] Sarah Kline: well aurora is not really usuable yet

[11:15 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: zadark: programmres are the bottlenecks. The most useful thing by far is bug fixes

[11:16 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think we need more bug reports :)

[11:16 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:16 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I now have a 977 page book on C# so I will be able to start getting more familiar with C# over the holidays

[11:16 AM] Dahlia Trimble: when I want to code something, just pull from the distribution that best meets my needs and publish my changes

[11:16 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: pro c#?

[11:16 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I mean it would certainly be nicer if things were moving faster, but things can get confusing very fast too with bigger dev teams

[11:16 AM] Nebadon Izumi: things change a lot faster

[11:16 AM] Zadark Portal: I understand, We look at network comms at present. I have put too sims, 1 has commercial network, the other cable as with adsl.

[11:17 AM] Zadark Portal: None have lsl enablem but do have c #

[11:17 AM] Penny Lane: Centralized repos are a thing of the past. With Opensim in Git, everyone should feel free to spin their own branches, and if people like them and the changesets are half sane, they'll pull them.

[11:17 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin - The PDF is called C# 4.0 The Complete Reference

[11:17 AM] tx Oh: bug fixes and propagate patches via mantis. at least that works for me

[11:17 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, except it isn't complete as it doesn't cover the .NET libraries.

[11:17 AM] Zadark Portal: So if you need a test doing just ask

[11:17 AM] Dahlia Trimble: only problem is how to maintain some compatability between forks

[11:18 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: but that's almost the most important part ;)

[11:18 AM] AEH Solo is Online

[11:18 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: utlimately, standardized markup and protocols are the thing

[11:18 AM] Penny Lane: Dahlia: massive decoupling, it's the only way.

[11:18 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: then it doesn't matter what simulator implementation you're running - but it's very complicated to get there, I think

[11:18 AM] Zadark Portal: brb

[11:18 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, what little I know of C# is based on looking at the OS code and seeing patterns and its similarity to C and other languages I've used.

[11:18 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: If I remember, you haven't done much java?

[11:18 AM] Dahlia Trimble: that doesnt help when interfaces differ and evolve

[11:19 AM] Richardus Raymaker: do somebody see greg ?

[11:19 AM] Greg Dover: i cant even see me

[11:19 AM] Greg Dover: lol

[11:19 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, and when ppl don't document anything because they don't believe in it

[11:19 AM] Justin Clark-Casey shrugs

[11:19 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know how many people use Aurora but for someone setting up a new grid, there are several forks of OS worth looking at that have interesting features, or important bug fixes.

[11:19 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: greg: you're still invisible to me

[11:19 AM] Zadark Portal: btw, if you wish you can visit uob test sim

[11:19 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: what other forks are there apart from aurora? (and perhaps fortis)

[11:20 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there are Andrew?

[11:20 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I see greg's hair

[11:20 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i only know of Aurora and Fortis

[11:20 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and from what I know both teams pretty much say its not really ready yet

[11:20 AM] Greg Dover: what does my hair look like

[11:20 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, there's proporietary stuff but I'm not counting that

[11:20 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I looked a little at Java in the beginning but didn't get in to it too much. These days I'm interested in Python.

[11:20 AM] Nalates Urriah: Is Aurora working with OSGrid?

[11:20 AM] Dahlia Trimble: ruth hair

[11:20 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Nalates no clue

[11:20 AM] Richardus Raymaker: when its a fork and when its a new project ? (inworldz ?) myopensim

[11:20 AM] Sarah Kline: yes i connected with it here

[11:20 AM] Mike Townsend: Nebadon do you have a sim in Aurora?

[11:20 AM] Nebadon Izumi: well Inworldz is closed source

[11:20 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: well, inworldz is closed, so the only way to use that sw is to go with their grid

[11:20 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I have never used Aurora

[11:21 AM] Sarah Kline: its nice building but scripts not compatible yet

[11:21 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Aurora, diva's OS, Simian grid, Melanies version (although that is commercial IIRC), Fortis(?) and the Open Metaverse stuff. (those last two might be the same thing?)

[11:21 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have enough time to test anything but core opensim right now

[11:21 AM] Nalates Urriah: TY Sarah

[11:21 AM] Helena Franizzi is Offline

[11:21 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Divas OS is pretty much stock Andrew

[11:21 AM] tx Oh: i wish there where a set of rfc's around opensim/lindengrid

[11:21 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: omv == fortis. diva is just opensim with other surround bits (though I think auto update code is closed)

[11:22 AM] Dahlia Trimble: Ive only used core. I wont use a closed source version

[11:22 AM] Richardus Raymaker: yes.

[11:22 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i need to learn C# or something like that what i can use on linux

[11:22 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I am not against Aurora or Fortis, i mostly just dont have the time, plus because of the taint issues with Aurora at the moment i really dont want to look at it

[11:22 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm sticking with stock OS for now but I'm reading the Aurora features page and (not quite) drooling over some of what is mentioned there.

[11:22 AM] Nebadon Izumi: until OpenSim changes its policy

[11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya the log read is impressive andrew

[11:23 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: simian grid is, I guess, a different services set. It was for cratch so I dion't tihink you could call it a fork

[11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but from what I hear its not very useable yet

[11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and I have not seen a lot of people claiming they are using it

[11:24 AM] tx Oh: but anyway. did the osgrid backend will be able to handle the trashcan prob in the near future? many people raise this question.

[11:24 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: that's the proof of the pudding, but I'm sure that will change in time :)

[11:24 AM] Sarah Kline: Revs working like crazy lol

[11:24 AM] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, do you have the same version on lbsa as you use now on wright ?

[11:24 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I haven't read up a lot of info on these other OS variants. I just know that there are a few others now. Not all are production ready

[11:24 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not sure i would call Simiangrid a fork either

[11:24 AM] Nebadon Izumi: being core opensim can still connect to it

[11:24 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: not grilling you, just interested in what's going on )

[11:24 AM] Dahlia Trimble: SimianGrid is more services tho

[11:24 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus, probably not

[11:24 AM] Richardus Raymaker: a working trashcan. yes tx. that would be nice

[11:24 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i just updated this sim about 20 minutes before the meeting

[11:24 AM] Sarah Kline: that would calm people down )

[11:25 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: well... call them a fork, or just a variant. They are just some other versions I've heard mentioned in my travels.

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: well just so you guys know

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Trash Can isnt really broken

[11:25 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok. no then lbsa runs old one :)

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: we intentially disabled it

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: because of the open nature of OSgrid

[11:25 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, np. Didn't think I was being grilled.

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: if we did not anyone could erase your entire inventory

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its not disabled cause its broken

[11:25 AM] Richardus Raymaker: yes. but empty it would be nice

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its disabled cause we disabled it to protect everyone

[11:25 AM] Greg Dover: has there been any talk of alternate physics engines

[11:25 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still stuck trying to get some web page work done and that is holding up my finishing the last bit of osprofile and other planned things i want to do on the OS code.

[11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there has been talk greg, but mostly just talk

[11:26 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: greg: no, but I'm hoping to get some time tomorrow to udpate ode

[11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ive heard people talk about phsyx

[11:26 AM] tx Oh: well, then you could move it into another table

[11:26 AM] Greg Dover: just looking for more cohesive vehicle options

[11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but its likely a very complicated task

[11:26 AM] tx Oh: then it's not deleted and also not visible

[11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya ODE is probably more than ample for good vehicles

[11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its just our implementation needs alot of work

[11:27 AM] Dahlia Trimble: ODE is supposed to have good vehicle support, problem is it's different than LL's implementation

[11:27 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:27 AM] Greg Dover: i have been looking for people to partner with to develop some but no luck yet

[11:27 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it would be virtually impossible to match LL's work

[11:27 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I suspect LL vehicles are really an abstraction on top of Havok anyway

[11:27 AM] Nebadon Izumi: being they dont even use a standard version of Havok

[11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi: we have done a lot of guessing to date

[11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi: to make physics work as well as it does

[11:28 AM] Greg Dover: dont have to re create the sl vehicle script but at least create ones that work here

[11:28 AM] Dahlia Trimble: but Ode vehicles are pretty nice, they have features like active suspension

[11:28 AM] Richardus Raymaker: verhicles are nice. but not important right now. as long other problems exists

[11:28 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah. I see Greg's name, tag, and hair now

[11:28 AM] Sarah Kline: no we dont need compatible

[11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ODE can do track vehicles too

[11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi: like tank tracks

[11:28 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are the build instructions at http://www.onikenkon.com/ode/ still valid?

[11:28 AM] Richardus Raymaker: we only need good documentation then sarah for ode verhicles

[11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i think so Justin

[11:28 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Vehicles have been on the wish list for a while but there are much more important issues that need fixing.

[11:29 AM] Dahlia Trimble: just need a way to make it available in OpenSim

[11:29 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: do you just replace the existing ode dlls in opensim bin with the rebuilt ones?

[11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:29 AM] Greg Dover: i agree there are more important things

[11:29 AM] Greg Dover: ike me actually showing up

[11:29 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are you going to be around tomorrow?

[11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ode.dll and libode.so

[11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there is libode_x64.so too or something

[11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I will be around Justin

[11:29 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, though I don't see a 64 windwos dll version

[11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: right

[11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: currently right now we only have ode.dll for x86 in OpenSim

[11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: were going to need to figure that out how to incorporate a ode64.dll or something

[11:30 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: ok

[11:30 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I have some experience using OpenSim like geometry in Physx, it often cant handle it

[11:30 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully it's similar to the linux way

[11:30 AM] Richardus Raymaker: and still people say 0.6.9 where stable. cant agree. 0.7 seems to run better and crash less. (or it dont crash becasue less visitors :O)

[11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: were probably already 1/2 way there

[11:30 AM] Dahlia Trimble: and crashes

[11:30 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I though 0.6.9-post-fixes was quite good

[11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: since Linux can detect x86 vs x64 in opensim

[11:30 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: thought. 0.6.9 itself certianly has bugs

[11:31 AM] Nebadon Izumi: we just need to match that functionality for windows

[11:31 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: yeah, I'll look into it

[11:31 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if you want to look at C# in Linux, you may want to install MonoDevelop

[11:31 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: do you have 64 bit windows available?

[11:31 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok andrew

[11:31 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:31 AM] Nebadon Izumi: thats all i use anymore Justin

[11:31 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: cool

[11:31 AM] Richardus Raymaker: justin, just want to say. for me it looks like 0.7 is good work.

[11:32 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: 0.7.0.2 is ok, though there is that embarassing groups bug

[11:32 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.1 will be quite a large leap

[11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya 0.7 has its issues, but overall I think its a better expeirence than 0.6.9 was

[11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: anyone running a simulator would have to agree with that I would think

[11:32 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yeah, it performs a lot better, apart maybe from login :)

[11:32 AM] Richardus Raymaker: thats what i mean nebadon

[11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: those who are just explorers

[11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: might feel things have declined a bit

[11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: because of the avatar appearance issues

[11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but thats understandable

[11:32 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: it's very much two steps back three steps forward

[11:32 AM] Sarah Kline: and teleporting

[11:33 AM] Sarah Kline: )

[11:33 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya while teleporting is not 100% right now

[11:33 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its been alot worse in the past

[11:33 AM] Sarah Kline: but while on my own sim

[11:33 AM] Richardus Raymaker: it works much better then 0.6.9

[11:33 AM] Sarah Kline: everything is sweet

[11:33 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, it comes down in part as to which two steps back got taken :-)

[11:33 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I think right now alot of the teleport issues are mostly that we just have a lot of down regions in OSgrid

[11:33 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yeah

[11:33 AM] Sarah Kline: yes

[11:34 AM] Zardoz Firanelli: Yes, is there any plan to clear out the dead regions?

[11:34 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: it might be possible to allevaite some of this with better diagnostic tools

[11:34 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Zardoz, its mostly just a matter of time

[11:34 AM] Richardus Raymaker: if someone place a time box under nebadons xmas tree.

[11:34 AM] Dahlia Trimble: oooou interesting... when I rebake my avatar it moves back and forth

[11:34 AM] Nebadon Izumi: lack there of it

[11:34 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but yes, we will eventually get around to it

[11:34 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm surprised there isn't an 'association of grids' yet

[11:34 AM] Zardoz Firanelli: Someone grabed a name over a month ago, never got their region up and it's still there.

[11:34 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia yes thats a known bug

[11:34 AM] tx Oh: i like such a time device too

[11:34 AM] Dahlia Trimble: ah kk

[11:35 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it happens with attachments too

[11:35 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I've noticed you moving back and forth a bit

[11:35 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you "bounce" around a bit

[11:35 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: freaky

[11:35 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie had some ideas about why

[11:35 AM] Sarah Kline: yes thats the bouncing i mentioned

[11:35 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i'll need to ask her if she ever made any more progress on that

[11:35 AM] Dahlia Trimble: kk I havent seen it before

[11:35 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty new

[11:35 AM] Nebadon Izumi: id say 1 month or less

[11:35 AM] Greg Dover: where is the rebake in imprudence

[11:35 AM] Sarah Kline: yes

[11:35 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Greg, Ctrl-Alt-R

[11:36 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: someone has been careless changing something :)

[11:36 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i only see the rubberband effect sometimes after teleport. if you walk to quick you jump back to TP start location

[11:36 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I think it started with mics changes Justin

[11:36 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: delayed packets

[11:36 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: tut tut :)

[11:36 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Mic really did some major refactoring at login with appearance stuff

[11:36 AM] Richardus Raymaker: greg, its called refresh appereance

[11:36 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and he touched some of the physics stuff

[11:36 AM] Richardus Raymaker: iut under edit

[11:36 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm imaging it's something capsule related

[11:36 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its sort of amazing that it worked before he changed anything

[11:36 AM] Greg Dover: soory havent used imprudence much

[11:36 AM] Dahlia Trimble: i also have a region where many objects never rez with hippo. More rez with imprudence, but never all of them

[11:36 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it was such a mess

[11:36 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it still sort of is

[11:36 AM] tx Oh: thats all minor probs :-)

[11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it just 'happened to work'

[11:37 AM] tx Oh: at least we have less clouds

[11:37 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:37 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it was like pure luck

[11:37 AM] Nebadon Izumi: that it worked as well as it did

[11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: evolution in action

[11:37 AM] Sarah Kline: if it works......

[11:37 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I know the objects are there because I can collide against them

[11:37 AM] Sarah Kline: giggles

[11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: that's what you get when you don't have a design

[11:37 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: sounds like object update packets get dropped

[11:37 AM] Nebadon Izumi: organic programming?

[11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: recently, I discovered a large amount of packet resends on intiial login

[11:37 AM] Dahlia Trimble: could be but its quite consistant

[11:37 AM] Richardus Raymaker: and prims that poof when you build.does someone know where i can find them back ?

[11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: initial login overloads the client's connection

[11:37 AM] Greg Dover: is there any plan to build in mesh support in the imprudence viewer

[11:38 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes Greg

[11:38 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but

[11:38 AM] Richardus Raymaker: greg, best to ask in imprudence irc channel

[11:38 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there is a catch to that

[11:38 AM] Nebadon Izumi: LL has decided to use Havok stuff in the viewer now

[11:38 AM] tx Oh: it will not be in imprudence and maybe in kokua

[11:38 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and they are not allowed to incllude that Havok stuff in the OpenSource Mesh veiwer

[11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: so someone will need to come up with opensource replacment to replace the havok stuff

[11:39 AM] Dahlia Trimble: Nebadon, doesnt matter because OpenSim doesnt use the part that the havok plugin generates

[11:39 AM] Sarah Kline: i think they can have a mesh viewer like kirstens but maybe not upload part yet?

[11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Jacek can probably explain that better than I can

[11:39 AM] tx Oh: the havok libs are just importent for uploading meshes

[11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt yet Dahlia right?

[11:39 AM] Nalates Urriah: My understanding mesh will not be in Imprudence but will be in Kokua

[11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: eventually we will need to though correct?

[11:39 AM] Dahlia Trimble: doesnt at all now

[11:39 AM] Nalates Urriah: Kirsten has mesh render in the last two releases and the viewer works here. But no mesh upload abillity.

[11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: thats correct Nalates

[11:39 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: why is havok stuff now allowed in the opensource mesh viewer?

[11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but honestly Imprudence and Kokua are really the same thing

[11:39 AM] Dahlia Trimble: we use triangle mesh colliders, havok uses convex hulls

[11:39 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: um... now -> not allowed

[11:40 AM] Nebadon Izumi: because Havok causes a few 100$k Andrew

[11:40 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: ouch

[11:40 AM] Nebadon Izumi: causes=costs

[11:40 AM] Greg Dover: i have been using mesh with the second life mesh viewer on my sims and it is working well

[11:40 AM] Richardus Raymaker: money / patent problem

[11:40 AM] Dahlia Trimble: there are open source libraries out there

[11:40 AM] tx Oh: iagain, the opensource mesh source didn't include any havok lib thats why it can't upload meshes

[11:40 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes using the SL viewer here for mesh works fine

[11:40 AM] Nalates Urriah: Kokua and Imprudence are made by the same people. Kokua is to be based on LL's SLV2 code.

[11:40 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: so there isn't yet an open source linden viewer with mesh?

[11:40 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya according to the OpenMetaverse guys, they thought it would not be a really huge deal to replace the libraries in the viewer

[11:41 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its just someone has to do it

[11:41 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: why should physics be needed to upload a mesh based object?

[11:41 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there is Justin, it just lacks some funcitonality

[11:41 AM] Dahlia Trimble: hmmm I heard kirsten's has mesh

[11:41 AM] Nebadon Izumi: when uploading Meshes

[11:41 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: ah ok

[11:41 AM] tx Oh: there is a lgpl mesh source from lindens

[11:41 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya it has to do with the physics hulls i think

[11:41 AM] tx Oh: but it can't upload meshes

[11:41 AM] Nebadon Izumi: right tx

[11:41 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, nebadon. iis there already a new tv available ?

[11:42 AM] Nebadon Izumi: TV?

[11:42 AM] Richardus Raymaker: yes to play youtube stuff etc

[11:42 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I prefer triangle meshes anyway, Im not really convinced hulls really improves anything over how ODE trimeshes work

[11:42 AM] Nebadon Izumi: probably not dahlia, im sure for LL it was just a time saver

[11:42 AM] Nebadon Izumi: trying to rush out Meshes

[11:42 AM] tx Oh: youtube: there is a version which works with glype. i packaged it in my shop on wright plaza

[11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I prefer NURBS based models to mesh based ones. :-)

[11:43 AM] Dahlia Trimble: it may improve things in havok tho

[11:43 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok. tx

[11:43 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I heard something semi-disturbing at the Mesh meeting yesterday

[11:43 AM] Nebadon Izumi: im sure you heard it too Dahlia

[11:43 AM] Dahlia Trimble: yeah?

[11:43 AM] tx Oh: it also has a readme to explain how to setup your own glype proxy

[11:43 AM] Nebadon Izumi: about only allowing people with payment info on file to upload meshes

[11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, uh oh. What did they say?

[11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: oh

[11:43 AM] Nebadon Izumi: apparantly LL is having major reservations about Meshes still

[11:43 AM] Nebadon Izumi: about copywritten material being uploaded

[11:43 AM] Dahlia Trimble: disturbing for LL. a non-issue for OpenSim

[11:44 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. i dont see the logic why the would only allow payment info users to do that

[11:44 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya for SL grid

[11:44 AM] Richardus Raymaker: aha

[11:44 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: wow

[11:44 AM] Greg Dover: there reservation is that they cant figure out how to make money off of meshes and not irritate everyone

[11:44 AM] Nebadon Izumi: nah

[11:44 AM] Sarah Kline: or one off developer fee was mentioned

[11:44 AM] Dahlia Trimble: they fear legal issues

[11:44 AM] Nebadon Izumi: they are worried about increased DMCA from actual Commercial companies

[11:44 AM] Nebadon Izumi: like comic book, movie companies etc..

[11:44 AM] Dahlia Trimble: like people ripping stuff from EA games

[11:45 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: they've got to face that somehow. they can't hold up mesh because of that....

[11:45 AM] Nebadon Izumi: for people uploading commercial models

[11:45 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I was reading something in the SL TOS the other day and they have severe restrictions now about copyright stuff on other things. Even using names similar to RL products can potentially get you in to trouble with them.

[11:45 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:45 AM] Richardus Raymaker: Dalhlia, i have the feeling much comes from games in sl.

[11:45 AM] Sarah Kline: reading the forums...these models are so messy and costly they wouldnt be any good

[11:45 AM] Dahlia Trimble: Ive heard there have been a lot of trouble in SL with textures ripped from games

[11:45 AM] Sarah Kline: in an SL environment

[11:46 AM] Quilzie Xemax: Rich, I've certainly seen plenty of textures straight from UT2004 on SL

[11:46 AM] Greg Dover: i have taken models from 3d max and brought them in and the quality is great

[11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya its certinaly nothing new at LL

[11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: im sure though it could get a lot worse with all these mesh libraries out there

[11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: like turbo squid and such

[11:46 AM] Sarah Kline: oh yes we can have as big as we want here )

[11:46 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I've seen textures from a game (Halo?)

[11:46 AM] Dahlia Trimble: not a problem for OpenSim per se, but can be for grid operators

[11:46 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: so the concern is people somehow ripping meshes from games?

[11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: with my testing though, you cant just upload any old mesh

[11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: so I think the worry is somewhat overblown a bit

[11:46 AM] Sarah Kline: yes

[11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: honestly i probably tried uploaded about 500 meshes

[11:47 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i gathered from around the web

[11:47 AM] tx Oh: lol

[11:47 AM] Nebadon Izumi: id be suprised if i got 40 out of 500

[11:47 AM] Dahlia Trimble: jcc, I suspect a lot of it is FUD generated by current content creators worrying about competition

[11:47 AM] Richardus Raymaker: if you read this. then dont hurry with mesh in opensim :O

[11:47 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and most were total junk

[11:47 AM] Greg Dover: most meshes especially ones done in sketchup dont work well

[11:47 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:47 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i have never gotten 1 sketchup model to upload yet

[11:47 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and be 100% complete

[11:47 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's not as if you can rip a mesh like a texture (I don't think?)

[11:47 AM] Greg Dover: yeah and you probably wont

[11:47 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you can Justin

[11:48 AM] tx Oh: i like to have meshes in kokua :-)

[11:48 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you can rip that via opengl?

[11:48 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I have one but in general I think sketchup models are low quality anyeay

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: if its dispalyed on your screen

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you can rip it

[11:48 AM] Dahlia Trimble: *anyway

[11:48 AM] Greg Dover: bring it into blender or 3d max and then export from there for the upload file

[11:48 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't tried converting my Rhino models to SL msehes

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes Justin

[11:48 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: k

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its even possible to rip DX stuff too

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its an impossible battle

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there is only 1 solution

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: that wont work

[11:48 AM] Quilzie Xemax: Not to mention there are plenty of tools for ripping stuff like meshes from games anyway.

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and thats server side rendering

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: that streams out video

[11:48 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: onlive :)

[11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:48 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I can model pretty well, I dont need to rip anything

[11:49 AM] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm maby in 2050 that works

[11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:49 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: ewww... just imagine the loads on the server if that was done

[11:49 AM] Dahlia Trimble: took a lot of effort to learn to model tho

[11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its being done now Andrew

[11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and SL is using it

[11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: for their web based viewer

[11:49 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: really?

[11:49 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: oh right, cool

[11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it renders server side

[11:49 AM] Richardus Raymaker: wel. that viewer start but dont work or load

[11:49 AM] UUID Speaker: Deantha Wallace: 5615f0ed-9b9b-43fc-947e-ad79024131ef

[11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Bluemars is experimenting with it now also

[11:49 AM] Helena Franizzi is Online

[11:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I tried the SL web viewer

[11:50 AM] Richardus Raymaker: and ?

[11:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it was cool, but the graphics are a huge step down

[11:50 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... server requirements may go up or else it will be lag city for just about anything one tries to do

[11:50 AM] Deantha Wallace: I need help

[11:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: for being in a web browser its not bad

[11:50 AM] Richardus Raymaker: under win7 it dont work at all

[11:50 AM] Nalates Urriah: Getting the browser viewer was trick, but it worked pretty well.

[11:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but its honestly not a standard viewer replacement

[11:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it worked in win7 for me

[11:50 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I liked the SL web viewer, but I didnt like the limited places I could visit

[11:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i was using firefox

[11:50 AM] Richardus Raymaker: under linux it works but i where stuck at the 4 squares while loading

[11:50 AM] Dahlia Trimble: and slurls wouldnt work

[11:50 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: deantha: what's the problem?

[11:51 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya it also was wierd that you cant go full screen really eithyer

[11:51 AM] Deantha Wallace: Im looking for a free parcel or land

[11:51 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, what modelling program do you use?

[11:51 AM] tx Oh: hehe, i haven't seen any running windows 7 installation yes (in vivo)

[11:51 AM] Richardus Raymaker: do you need something special for the viewer ?

[11:51 AM] Deantha Wallace: I cant find

[11:51 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I use blender and 3ds max

[11:51 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus, just java

[11:51 AM] Deantha Wallace: I wanted a free one

[11:51 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Deantha, do a land sales search with a price of $)

[11:51 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: $0

[11:52 AM] Deantha Wallace: i done

[11:52 AM] Richardus Raymaker: sound like i dont mis anything with web viewer

[11:52 AM] Deantha Wallace: but are for rent

[11:52 AM] tx Oh: naali is going 0.5 soon

[11:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you really dont Richardus

[11:52 AM] Deantha Wallace: i cant

[11:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its very experimental still

[11:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and is missing almost all functionality

[11:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: all you can do is walk around and chat

[11:53 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there is no inventory or rezzing

[11:53 AM] Casias Falta: Can i ask people what the current status of voice on osgrid is?

[11:53 AM] Deantha Wallace: how much Mt i can have as free?

[11:53 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, ok. I use Rhinoceros 3D and Blender

[11:53 AM] Deantha Wallace: sorry disturb your conversation

[11:53 AM] Deantha Wallace: im new

[11:53 AM] Richardus Raymaker: good question. need to install voice again to.

[11:53 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Deantha, Welcome to OS grid.

[11:53 AM] Justin Clark-Casey thought vaguely about getting the blender book reviewed on slashdot yesterday

[11:53 AM] Deantha Wallace: Thnaks so much Andrew

[11:54 AM] Sarah Kline: look on the osg forums often people offer free land

[11:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there are a lot of good tutorials on the blender website justin

[11:54 AM] Deantha Wallace: I want to give my contribute to this open sources

[11:54 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll look at voice again after I move to 0.7 now that there have been code changes regarding use of FreeSwitch

[11:54 AM] Deantha Wallace: but at the moment i have no money

[11:54 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I should probably try those first before splashing out :)

[11:54 AM] Dahlia Trimble: jcc, Essential Blender is good but is for pre-2.5 blender

[11:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there is no money system here Deantha

[11:54 AM] Greg Dover: 3 different viewers now and i still dont show up

[11:54 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm really just interested in how it works - I'm not going to be doing much modelling myself - I don't have the talent

[11:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Greg its probably something your wearing then

[11:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i can clear your appearance out

[11:54 AM] Richardus Raymaker: try to drag and drop other outfit greg

[11:54 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that's a book or a website?

[11:54 AM] Greg Dover: i should be naked

[11:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: so you revert back to ruth

[11:54 AM] tx Oh: with the current opensim you can have a grid wide freeswitch dialplan or you can deal it region based, afaik

[11:54 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Deantha, Just so you know, this is the weekly meeting regarding OpenSimulator development. You are welcome to stay.

[11:54 AM] Dahlia Trimble: Essential Blender is probably the best then

[11:55 AM] Dahlia Trimble: a book

[11:55 AM] Deantha Wallace: difficult blender

[11:55 AM] Richardus Raymaker: not more easy to have a button for that nebadon ? if that fix the problem everytime ?

[11:55 AM] Dahlia Trimble: blender is easy but a bit different. 3D in general is difficult

[11:55 AM] Copied key for Greg Dover to clipboard: 044c8faa-18e2-4054-98df-9e4245733b9d

[11:55 AM] tx Oh: but we all wait for a mumble implementation, i guess

[11:55 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: k, thanks for the recommendation

[11:55 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah

[11:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Greg

[11:55 AM] Greg Dover: yes

[11:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: if you relog now, you should be a ruth again

[11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i reset your appearance

[11:56 AM] Greg Dover: i'll try

[11:56 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Blender isn't easy until you spend a lot of time figuring out how to use it.

[11:56 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: still don't know what happened to that opensim mumble 'pre-announcement'

[11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Blender 2.5 is awesome

[11:56 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still not comfortable wtih it but it is a little easier than it used to be

[11:56 AM] Dahlia Trimble: thats one thing nice that SL did, brought simple 3D out to the masses

[11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: blender 2.4 = head explosions

[11:56 AM] Casias Falta: so as far as voice goes we are sort of waiting for mumber and whisper

[11:56 AM] Richardus Raymaker: mumble not for linux right now. and sofar i know no viewer support ?/

[11:56 AM] Dahlia Trimble: and SL did it well

[11:56 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Try Blender 1.5

[11:56 AM] Casias Falta: mumble and whisper

[11:57 AM] tx Oh: blender is easy and blender 2.5 is what linden client v.2x to blender 2.49b users

[11:57 AM] Greg Dover: sweet

[11:57 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I still have the first Blender book that was put out by the Blender people.

[11:57 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Its a work of art

[11:58 AM] tx Oh: i prefer 2.49b

[11:58 AM] Nebadon Izumi: that interface explodes my head

[11:58 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:58 AM] Dahlia Trimble: also blender 2.49b is pretty complete and functional. 2.5x is still in development and probably considered alpha/beta

[11:58 AM] Nebadon Izumi: for some reason i feel like ive been using Blender 2.5 for a long time

[11:58 AM] Nalates Urriah: Intuitive is not a word to be used with Blender

[11:58 AM] Glori Summer: hi

[11:58 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it reminds me more of Autodesk 3D studio

[11:59 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: hi glori

[11:59 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, 2.5 has a lot of cleanup/restructuring. Not all of the features have been put back or re-enabled in 2.5

[11:59 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I hear that none of those packages has a great ui

[11:59 AM] tx Oh: well, i also use vi and not emacs :-)

[11:59 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: blender,. maya, etc. I mean

[11:59 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:59 AM] Dahlia Trimble: 3D is just complex

[11:59 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya that it is

[11:59 AM] tx Oh: have you tried soft image??

[11:59 AM] Nebadon Izumi: though if you want to have some fun with 3D

[11:59 AM] Nebadon Izumi: try Sculptris

[12:00 PM] Dahlia Trimble: 3DS Max is incredibly complex

[12:00 PM] Nebadon Izumi: man that program is awesome

[12:00 PM] Helena Franizzi is Online

[12:00 PM] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.sculptris.com/

[12:00 PM] Nebadon Izumi: anyone can use sculptris

[12:00 PM] Richardus Raymaker: thats not for linux

[12:00 PM] Casias Falta: btw jcc thought your thesis that you posted was thought provoking

[12:00 PM] Nalates Urriah: #DSMax is awesome. Blender 2.55 r33530 is out now (some what beta)

[12:01 PM] Dahlia Trimble: completely learning 3Ds Max is probably equivilent to getting a masters degree lol

[12:01 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I can see you now, greg.

[12:01 PM] Greg Dover: sweet

[12:01 PM] Richardus Raymaker: welcome greg

[12:01 PM] Nebadon Izumi: cool

[12:01 PM] Dahlia Trimble: nice spikes :)

[12:01 PM] Greg Dover: thanks

[12:01 PM] Justin Clark-Casey: casias: thanks :) Anything in particular?

[12:01 PM] Greg Dover: need an ao for here though

[12:01 PM] Dahlia Trimble: thers a couple around ar some of the freebee places

[12:02 PM] Richardus Raymaker: greg. if you use imprudence

[12:02 PM] Dahlia Trimble: *at

[12:02 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Greg, there is an AO in the nearby freebie area IIRC

[12:02 PM] Richardus Raymaker: ctrl-shift-o

[12:02 PM] Nalates Urriah: I have to run. Thanks for your time Neb. :)

[12:02 PM] Greg Dover: i'll have a look

[12:02 PM] Justin Clark-Casey: bye nalates

[12:02 PM] Nebadon Izumi: ya the freebie ao's around generally dont have animations included

[12:02 PM] Sarah Kline: bye

[12:02 PM] Richardus Raymaker: if possible use the viewer AO

[12:02 PM] Nebadon Izumi: the best AO i still think is the Imprudence built in AO

[12:02 PM] Richardus Raymaker: bye sarah

[12:02 PM] Nebadon Izumi: cause it works in no script zones

[12:02 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I haven't tried that yet.

[12:02 PM] Sarah Kline: no nalates )

[12:02 PM] AEH Solo is Offline

[12:03 PM] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm oops bye nalatas

[12:03 PM] Helena Franizzi is Online

[12:03 PM] Dahlia Trimble: i need to try it. Ive been having appearance problems lately when I use Imprudence tho :(

[12:03 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, can you change the animations used by the AO?

[12:03 PM] AEH Solo is Online

[12:03 PM] Casias Falta: jcc well some of what i thought might be possible you explained would not lol

[12:04 PM] Justin Clark-Casey: reality is a bitch sometimes :)

[12:04 PM] Dahlia Trimble: speaking of reality, it's lunch time for me. Bye all :)

[12:04 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, dahlia

[12:04 PM] Sarah Kline: bye dahlia

[12:04 PM] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, unfortunately I need to get back to work too

[12:04 PM] AEH Solo is Offline

[12:05 PM] Richardus Raymaker: greg if your AO in imprudence seems not to work, open inventory and search for the notecard. after that AO must work. small bug. but better you know it now

[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I should get back to fixing up a couple of web pages shortly

[12:05 PM] Greg Dover: so is there anyone here that would like to dig into vehicle scripting with me?

[12:05 PM] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia

[12:05 PM] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin

[12:05 PM] Sarah Kline: bye justin

[12:05 PM] Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks

[12:05 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I want to dig in to particle scripting at some point. There are issues with particles in OS that bother me a bit and which I'd like to see fixed eventually.

[12:06 PM] Greg Dover: well i am off

[12:06 PM] Jacek Antonelli: I'm gonna head out as well. Take care, all

[12:06 PM] Greg Dover: thanks for the help

[12:06 PM] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

[12:06 PM] Sarah Kline: byes

[12:06 PM] Richardus Raymaker: bye greg andrew

[12:07 PM] stiofain nbmcmedia: anyone using voice with imprudence?

[12:07 PM] AEH Solo is Online

[12:07 PM] Qandy Saw: i did try it - works ok

[12:07 PM] Richardus Raymaker: nt anymore sicne 0.7 and have not installed it to

[12:08 PM] tx Oh: tsts, using slvoice in opensim environment is not allowed

[12:08 PM] Qandy Saw: hehe

[12:08 PM] Deantha Wallace: i go

[12:08 PM] Casias Falta: i tried to install whisper on imprudence and it broke imprudence but could do it with hippo

[12:09 PM] tx Oh: bye deantha

[12:09 PM] tx Oh: and all who went before

[12:09 PM] tx Oh: :-)

[12:09 PM] tx Oh: i experience a heavy chat lag

[12:09 PM] Sarah Kline: bye deantha

[12:09 PM] stiofain nbmcmedia: why tx?

[12:10 PM] Nebadon Izumi: i dont know if its not allowed tx

[12:10 PM] Nebadon Izumi: its just not allowed to be distributed

[12:10 PM] Nebadon Izumi: but i heard LL got permission

[12:10 PM] Richardus Raymaker: i think tx point the the letters sl

[12:10 PM] Nebadon Izumi: to be allowed to distribute it in the TPV viewers now

[12:10 PM] stiofain nbmcmedia: we were using whisper

[12:10 PM] Nebadon Izumi: the latest Imprudence includes slvoice.exe now

[12:11 PM] tx Oh: no, i mean the libvivox

[12:11 PM] stiofain nbmcmedia: am i right in thinking that the whole grid acts as one voice conf?

[12:11 PM] AEH Solo is Offline

[12:11 PM] Nebadon Izumi: no not on OSgrid stiofain

[12:11 PM] Nebadon Izumi: it would not be a grid wide voice system

[12:11 PM] tx Oh: it is just allowed to use vivox with the linden grid

[12:12 PM] stiofain nbmcmedia: well i cud talk from seperate sims and friend could hear

[12:12 PM] Richardus Raymaker: thats a bug

[12:12 PM] Casias Falta: whisper with hippo on the osgrid mumble sandbox region works great

[12:12 PM] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya thats a bug

[12:12 PM] Nebadon Izumi: ya the only problem with the whisper plugin

[12:12 PM] Nebadon Izumi: is that it breaks the SL voice

[12:12 PM] tx Oh: whisper is not open source, i can't use it

[12:12 PM] Nebadon Izumi: so if you use Imprudence or Hippo on SL grid

[12:12 PM] Nebadon Izumi: then you loose voice there

[12:12 PM] Nebadon Izumi: which kind of sucks

[12:13 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Keep two installs of the viewers. One for SL one for OS grids

[12:13 PM] Nebadon Izumi: we need a better solution for sure

[12:13 PM] stiofain nbmcmedia: lol t doessuck

[12:13 PM] Nebadon Izumi: can you install the Same viewer twice?

[12:13 PM] stiofain nbmcmedia: is it being worked on?

[12:13 PM] Nebadon Izumi: not sure stiofain

[12:13 PM] Richardus Raymaker: under linux it can

[12:13 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: Maybe not in Windows. I have 6 viewers on my machine.

[12:13 PM] AEH Solo is Online

[12:14 PM] Nebadon Izumi: ya makes more sense in linux

[12:14 PM] Richardus Raymaker: imprudence dont have installer. so nice

[12:14 PM] Nebadon Izumi: just not sure in windows

[12:14 PM] Nebadon Izumi: it does in windows

[12:14 PM] Casias Falta: well the i am pretty sure you can install 2 copies of inprudence on windows

[12:14 PM] Richardus Raymaker: what if you install it in seperate directory ?

[12:14 PM] Casias Falta: just put in diff folders

[12:14 PM] Nebadon Izumi: ya possibly, im just not sure

[12:14 PM] tx Oh: i go

[12:14 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: It would depend on if they use the same registry settings

[12:14 PM] Nebadon Izumi: never tried i dont think

[12:14 PM] tx Oh: have phun

[12:14 PM] Sarah Kline: me go too

[12:14 PM] Nebadon Izumi: see ya guys

[12:14 PM] Sarah Kline: byes ^^

[12:14 PM] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming