Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-23

 [10:59] Hiro Protagonist is online. [10:59] Second Life: Region found! [10:59] Second Life: Region found! [10:59] Second Life: Region found! [10:59] Second Life: Region found! [10:59] Second Life: Teleport completed from hop://login.osgrid.org/jump4000/128/128/27 [11:00] Second Life: Region found! [11:00] Second Life: Teleport completed from hop://login.osgrid.org/jump8000/128/128/28 [11:00] Second Life: The region you have entered is running a different simulator version. Current simulator: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         397379c: 2013-03-19 00:39:58 +0000 (Unix/Mono) Previous simulator: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         5f2cbfc: 2013-04-09 18:00:29 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:00] logger sewell: Hi Richardus didn't see you sneek in :-) [11:00] Karg Zenovka: ok how much of my hair is visible? [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:01] Tiffany Magic: None, Karg [11:01] Vivian Klees: hi justin [11:01] logger sewell: Hi Justin [11:01] Tiffany Magic: Hello Justin [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi jcc [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: im good in sneaking in [11:01] Nebadon Izumi is online. [11:01] fely timida: help me [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: lol [11:01] fely timida: kkkkkk [11:01] Kayaker Magic: Karg, I see your hair prims but no textures on them [11:01] Master Dubrovna: Good day everyone [11:01] fely timida: wat localizion [11:02] fely timida: maps [11:02] logger sewell: hey Ned and Andrew [11:02] fely timida: transporte [11:02] logger sewell: Neb even [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone [11:02] Kayaker Magic: oops, they disappeared [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Neb. Feeling any better [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ? [11:02] Karg Zenovka: what disappeared? [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: eh not really [11:02] Tiffany Magic: Hi Andrew and Nebadon [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry to hear that [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: throat pain is gone, but i feel like i have lump in throat still [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: still on antiobiotics and pain killers [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: been to the doctor I presume? [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, so yes :) [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya, my throat was very irratated its healing [11:03] Karg Zenovka: better hair now?!?!? [11:03] Tiffany Magic: Yes, you look fine to me, Karg. [11:03] Karg Zenovka: phew, that was hard wok!! [11:03] Tiffany Magic: LOL [11:03] Karg Zenovka: work [11:03] logger sewell: hehe [11:04] Karg Zenovka: is there a meeting about to start? [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:04] Robert Adams: hello all [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hi robert [11:04] Karg Zenovka: o I just got bumped here [11:04] logger sewell: hi Robert [11:04] Vivian Klees: hi Robert [11:04] Tiffany Magic: Well, Virtual Highway took the plung.... upgraded to 7.5 and enabled BulletSIM [11:04] Karg Zenovka: what is the meeting? [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: this is an opensim dev meeting [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey expects tiffany is now going to tell him about avatar teleport problems :) [11:05] logger sewell: nope [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, there are some issues [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, good [11:05] Tiffany Magic: LOL Nope [11:05] Karg Zenovka: thanks, um, I may slip away! [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: karg: sure [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi reboert. neb [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: robert [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany, logger: you got the other bits you needed updated? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:06] logger sewell: the only thing i can think of is old or I,m missing some thing like no estate managers that work [11:06] Tiffany Magic: Justin: We are actually pretty happy with it so far. A few issues to work out, but tping isn't a huge problem anymore. We do, however still have trouble passing items to people on different sims. [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: ok. I vaguely recall people discussing issues with that but it hasn't surfaced recently [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: that said, I've been out of the loop for a week and a half [11:07] Tiffany Magic: Austin: Yes, as Logger said, estate functions for estate managers doesn't seem to work. [11:07] logger sewell: yes how was your vacation good I hope [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: somehow it left me tremendously tired :) [11:08] Tiffany Magic: LOL [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: since most of it was unforutnately taken up with moving house [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I need another one now, really [11:08] logger sewell: lol' [11:09] Vivian Klees: just get rid of the stuff still in boxes 3 months later [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ha, yes [11:09] Tiffany Magic: Justin: So, should estate manager functions be working for us in 7.5? [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: if only you could put everything inside a tiny prim [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, you need a vacation after your vacation? ;-) [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: I would have thought so - I don't know why they are not [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: but I don't use them myself so i can't say that for certain [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Tiffany, In older versions of OS I have noticed that you need to "View Admin" before some higher level functions will work. [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be worth doing that when trying estate features. [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: view admin? [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: In the viewer. [11:11] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         397379c: 2013-03-19 00:39:58 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew, wich functions you talk about. [11:11] logger sewell: what she means is when you give someone estate manager rights they dont work [11:11] Ai Austin: hello folks [11:11] logger sewell: Hi Ai [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hi ai [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: logger, Have the other person do the "View Admin" thing in their viewer and see if that fixes it. [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: okay sorry, son't know what is happening there [11:12] Ai Austin: Hi.. on via Firestorm 4.4.0 OS as I assume most of you are :-) [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks is now using the recently release 1.8 version of Singularity. [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey is still on 4.3.1 [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i tried it earlier, I still prefer Kokua [11:12] Orion.Pseudo @grid.pseudospace.net:8002: Actually I'm just trying it out. Yay for finally fixing the "unknown user" glitch in chat. :) [11:12] Vivian Klees: went back to Zen [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: ? Is that a viewer bug? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: Orion i will be surprised if thats actually fixed [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its a viewer cache issue Justin [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey assumed it was a server issue [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: it happens when you visit multiple grids [11:13] Ai Austin: that got progressively worse on OSGrid. at one stage I had 20 users showing as "Unknown Usar" on my work system! [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: it can happen even logging in to SL [11:13] Orion.Pseudo @grid.pseudospace.net:8002: It seems to be... At least on the first run. I could be wrong, I'll have to do more popping around. [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: then into OSgrid [11:13] Ai Austin: I use logions to 5 grds and SL [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I have seen unknown users in SL too [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: oh right, that's a pity [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: clearing viewer cache fixes it [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: people with the same name on other grids? [11:14] Ai Austin: could not clear it even with cache, user folder and ubninstal and reinstall of all viewers [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: oh that uknown user would be nice if thats fixt [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Imprudence used to have a clear avatar name cache only [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: which was nice [11:14] Ai Austin: yes of course. I am Ai Austin on 10 grids [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: didnt have to clear out everything to fix it [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its a shame none of the v3 tpvs have added that back [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: one step back one step forward :0 [11:14] Orion.Pseudo @grid.pseudospace.net:8002: I know for sure kokua has no unknown user glitch, so... I dunno. *shakes head n guzzles coffee* [11:14] Ai Austin: Sorry to intrude. [11:14] Ai Austin stays quiet to see what the agenda is [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: no fixed agenda, whatever opensim topics ppl want to bring up [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: so if you have one, please go ahead [11:15] Ai Austin: I still have that slow asset issue on one system for OSGrid add on regions. its a pain [11:16] Ai Austin: I would be happy to do any testing anyone wants on the addon regions to OSGrid to see what the issue might be. [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: but not other osgrid systems? [11:16] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:16] Ai Austin: I do not see it on any of our own Openvue hosts which are identical hardware [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: any difference in the caching settings or other settings? [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: they are all connecting to OSgrid? [11:16] Ai Austin: its just teh satndard OSGrid setup, so the settings are quite difefernt to openvue [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: if your comparing OSgrid to another grid there is not much point in that [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid has 2tb of assets [11:17] Ai Austin: Just saying.. of anyone el;se still has that issue I can do whatever tests you think would help. the Mantis shows the type of error I get [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and 1000's of regions [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: what's the mantis number? [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: its not an error [11:17] Ai Austin: looking [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: any function that takes longer than 3 seconds to finish [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: will be printed on the console [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: its a debug thing the intel guys added a long time ago [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: they are not errors [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: its just taking more than 3 seconds to fetch [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: 3 seconds is probably too short for some requests [11:18] Ai Austin: its the one about LONG delays on inevtory 2 [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: are you seeing actual issues in world [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: or just messages on the console? [11:19] Ai Austin: fetchinventorydescendents2 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: generally these are not warnings [11:19] Ai Austin: oh yes nebadon [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: err not errors i mean, they are debug warnings [11:19] Ai Austin: cloud avatars that NEVER resolve and have to stop and restart the region [11:19] Ai Austin: inventory nmever loads, a real mess [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: then ya thats something else [11:19] Ai Austin: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6412 [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you might have old ini's [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok so you have the proper ini's it looks like from that mantis [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you have the caps [11:20] Ai Austin: I update my .ini on OSGrid add on regiosn EVERY time a new OSGrid release is donw and only put in tywio or tthree essential changes for my setup [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: presumably this is still happening very recently? [11:20] Ai Austin: no.. for some time. [11:20] Ai Austin: at lwast since Nov 2012 [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and it happens to everyone who visits this sim? [11:20] Ai Austin: all the time [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, it's been also happening recently? i.e. within the last few weeks? [11:21] Ai Austin: yes... I thin I saw it last week [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: i heared people talking about ghosts. sort of double login. thats what you mean al ? [11:21] Ai Austin: and essentially I avoid using our own regions on OSGrid when I want to do anythign for real! [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: no, this is something different [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hello dahlia :) [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: :) [11:22] Ai Austin: Anyway... hope you are alerted to it in case anyone else seeks this. I can do any tests that would seem helpful as the host is under my full control. [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: I will try and have a think sometime soon about this. [11:22] Ai Austin: I only use that Vista wndows box for OSGrid add on regions. Okay Justin thanks [11:22] logger sewell: on the cloud avatar problem i have been going in wiping the avatar table for that user and then logging back in and right click and wear the folder that has all the items in it ie: cloths shape skin [11:23] Ai Austin: it works fine if I send teh avatar to Wright plaza etc first [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: if anything that woudl suggest some connection issue [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: what version of mono exactly? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i see mono 2.10 on mantis [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: but is it 2.10.1 [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: 2.10.2 [11:23] Arielle Popstar: use a blank avatar folder. Resolves 95% of cloud [11:23] Tiffany Magic: We have some issues with cloud avatars also, but it's not consistant. A certain avatar who will remain nameless, but his initials are Kayaker Magic, tends to come in naked every time he declouds. Not real sure if that is a system but, or a twisted sense of humor. *grin* [11:24] Ai Austin: could be.. you never know. But I have had our Uni admin folks run tests, logs on every packet and check firewalls and no issues [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i remember having some issues with the early 2.10's [11:24] Ai Austin: and Openvue hosts (5 of them) are on same subnmet and work fine [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: anything lower than 2.10.5 had some issues i recall [11:24] Ai Austin is online. [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Tiffany, best outfit when going out on the water so it seems appropriate. ;-) [11:24] logger sewell: lol; [11:24] Tiffany Magic: lol [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: is anybody using multiple attachments btw? [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't but it would be interesting to try them out for tattoos [11:25] Ai Austin: Not that well endowed :-) [11:25] Tiffany Magic: That code isn't in 7.5 is it? [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: no [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, how does the code decide which attachment is on top of another. Order they are attached? [11:26] Tiffany Magic: Has the mulitple sit function been addressed in 7.6 also? [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: does it make any difference? I would have thought they would sort by attachment position [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: what aspect of multiple sit? [11:26] Tiffany Magic: Two people sitting on a prim and moving. [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, I thought you were asking about multiple attachments to same point on an avatar [11:27] Tiffany Magic: Like in a boat or car. [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes, but I'm not sure what would happen if they were at exactly the same position [11:27] Tiffany Magic: Not across simlines, I understand.... that seems to be an issue nobody can address. [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: in theory the viewer gets told about the one first attached first [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, I see what you mean. [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: Tiffany,m you mean multi root sit ? [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: one for robert, can bullet cross simborder ? [11:28] Tiffany Magic: Kayaker... help explain please? [11:28] Vivian Klees: not yet Richardus [11:28] Arielle Popstar: the rubber banding of the passenger avatar? [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: that kind of stuff is still unresolved [11:28] Robert Adams: BulletSim cannot cross borders yet [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: rubberbanding, that is [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: there is a way to fix that [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: sort of [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: sit all avatars on root prim [11:29] Arielle Popstar: well iot was fixed by one dev, why cant that opensource code be used? [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: the best fix would be to correct the sit prim [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: right we need to fix it [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: already happy if bullet works good with moveto and keyframe. [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: but you can sort of fix it by sitting all avatars on root prim [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: it takes time and effort to port code, this is a fairly complex area [11:29] Arielle Popstar: it was opensim code [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: are you sure? [11:29] Arielle Popstar: pop it in and its fixed :) [11:29] Robert Adams: Melanie said keyframe was "on the way" but I haven't seen it yet [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: where is it? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya if there is code you just need to make us aware of it [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: no one told me [11:30] Arielle Popstar: i have a region runiong opensim from year and a half ago with fixes to ode that fixed that issue [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: this issue can't or rather shouldn't be fixed by ode changes [11:30] Ai Austin: https://twitter.com/batate/status/326764598181105665/photo/1 is a snap of this area :-) [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the rubber banding avatar ? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: there is no way that is a physics issue [11:31] Arielle Popstar: no rubber banding for the passengers in vehicles [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect you might be talking about some code by whatshisname [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that is not a physics issue [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab [11:31] Arielle Popstar: was something to do with root prim [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i do not ever remember a time in OpenSim that worked properly [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: ARielle, do you mean the rubberband when the passenger standup it shoot back to startpoint ? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i have been doing vehicles since the 1st day we could do vehicles [11:32] Robert Adams: do you have a pointer to the code, Arielle? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: and its always had rubberbanding for avatars sitting on non root prims [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm thinking of ubit [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya ubit maybe did fix it [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: but usually his stuff doesnt just apply in core [11:33] Arielle Popstar: he did [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: well, unfortunately he was not willing to work with me to get code into core [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and he refuses to make proper patches [11:33] Arielle Popstar: but at least shows the fix Neb [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: and it's a lot of effort to understand that stuff [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: and it's not something that should be fixed in ode anyway, that would be a hack [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya im sure it can be fixed [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: unless there's more than one isue [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: there is no doubt about that [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but ubits patches were from aurora [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: most of them [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and none of them would go into our code without major overhaul [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: is the sit with cam already fixt ? [11:34] Arielle Popstar: well if i work with you on it? [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if we can get a proper patch for core [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i would apply it [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: no problem [11:34] Arielle Popstar: would love to see this fixed [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: as long as nothing else breaks [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: it has to be a patch which is explained - not some mysterious chunk of code [11:35] Arielle Popstar: it makes opensim look so amatuer [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: because it's possible to screw up ode in subtle ways which only manifest in random crahes [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: we have a lot of sit issues [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: that is just one of many [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it would be nice to get them all fixed [11:35] Arielle Popstar: yes but a very visible one and perhaps the one fix may fix others issues [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: at this point if you sit on anything but root [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: your going to have issues [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: not just with vehicles [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: yes [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: thats why this big moon couch is not linked [11:36] Arielle Popstar: nod [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: avatar cam weirdness when you sit [11:36] Tiffany Magic: Sit issues.... crossing simlines in vehicles.... even variable sim sizes..... Those things are highly important to users. [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya border crossing is a totally different issue [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I would bug melanie to apply her patch [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but she is very busy with other equally important things [11:37] Tiffany Magic: I've been told that Melanie paid someone to write that code and it is exclusive for life. [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: who told you that? [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Whose life? :-) [11:39] Tiffany Magic: Yoshiko Fazuku [11:39] Arielle Popstar sharpens knives :) [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: well, from what Melanie said to me herself, she wants to apply it but it's a lot of work to adapt from the avination codebase [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: so there's seems ot be some miscommunication there [11:39] Tiffany Magic: .She said Melanie can never sell or share the code, and the guy who wrote it is bound by contract to never share it or sell it to anyone else. [11:40] Ai Austin: Rumours fly. Its best to encourage people to contribute core code as many folks do.. but they have to earn a crust too [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be a very odd state of affirs where neithe rparty owns the code [11:40] Tiffany Magic: I hope Yosiko is wrong. [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: actually there was some sit code yes [11:41] Tiffany Magic: Yoshiko claims to be on the Avination core team. [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately, it's in people's interests to contribute core code since otherwise they become incompatible [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: from the Meta7 morons [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: they refused to share it [11:41] Arielle Popstar: this is code for the vari regions? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: and from what I know Melanie has pulled that code from Avination as well [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's ultimately up to them what they do, as long as that doesn't impede what other people want to do [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: for now i stay at wiki things :) [11:41] Ai Austin: Just so long as they do not do teh community splitting thing that some have tried. That is NOT AT ALL good [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: the Variable region code could be used [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: for now i stay at wiki stuff :) [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but unfortunately there is no easy way to port that over from Aurora [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the chances of that happening are probably zero [11:42] Ai Austin: Can I thrown in the word "Megaregions"? [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I think variable regions are a complicated concept because I don't know how you resolve the issues of being compatible with other regions [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: we would probably have to redo the code from scratch if we wanted that [11:42] Ai Austin: why the hell does anyone do that.. it splits things up from thsoe that go mega and those that do not. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya I cant name one grid that runs Aurora [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so there are probably major issues [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: the are nice al, but there are many problems [11:42] Ai Austin: Just a diversion of effort on Aurora [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: everygrid I know that tried to run aurora closed its doors within a month or two [11:43] Arielle Popstar: been noticing how chatty megas are. Any way to reduce that Justin? [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: well, that doesn't say anything [11:43] Arielle Popstar: Kitely claims to have done so [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I can name a grid that runs on aurora (two actually) [11:43] Ai Austin: The Universal campus is a good instance.. 4 mega region [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: Al, same as why you have Ios and ANdroid :O [11:43] Robert Adams: Aurora was recently made to only have one region per simulator.... one simulator, one variable sized region [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I have no issue with aurora at all - I think competition is good [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: chatty in what way? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya I don't either, I am just stating we cant easily use their code [11:43] Ai Austin: but not easy to move to grids that use standard regions [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its not because we dont want to [11:43] Arielle Popstar: messaging to presence of new users etc [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its because their code is so different now [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: that's probably consequence of the teleport chattiness [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: which has remained there because of previous and some current teleport issues [11:44] Arielle Popstar: i put up a 100 region mega and it practically freezes for all the messaging [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: you could raise the logging level [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if your running 100 regions in a simulator [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: you need to turn logging to off [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:45] Arielle Popstar: ok will try that [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: 100 regions in one simulator? Yikes [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise the logging alone will create so much lag it will be unusable [11:45] Arielle Popstar: :) [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: 100 regions ? uhmm . that are estimated 300 connections ? [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: variable regions are probably cleaner interally in aurora though, if a lot of code rewriting has happened [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: nooo. not 300 [11:45] Arielle Popstar: i need it for the race car script someone let me use [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: megaregions are a clever hack but still a hack [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: i need it for my train arielle. [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: ya i suggest turning off logging [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it will help [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: do it in OpenSim.exe.config [11:46] Arielle Popstar: ok [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I might look at seeing if scene loops on child regions of a megaregion can be disabled completely [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: but never seen much noise from mega [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure if they're actually doing anything. [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably not [11:46] Nebadon Izumi whispers: its not like your neighbors would see anything anyway [11:46] Arielle Popstar: well i realize 100 regions is a bit much but it is about testing [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i remember Adam had 1000 region simulator on his laptop [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: it is useful to know that the logging gets overwhelming at that level [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: though not very surprising :) [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it took like 2 hours to start [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:47] Arielle Popstar: heh [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: im not sure whats improved with mega's in 0.7.6dev [11:47] Arielle Popstar: mine is on a dual core 2 gb laptop [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I recently fixed a few regressions, but I think there are some other issues [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:47] Key Gruin: good way to fix things is to try breaking them :) [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: there was a bug report with delete not working properly [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: 2gb ram might not be enough for 100 regions [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: hi key.. [11:47] Arielle Popstar: well just empty [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:47] Key Gruin: hi Rich [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: how much memory are you using once its started? [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: hi key [11:47] Arielle Popstar: only uses 600 MB of ram [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: thats not too bad [11:47] Key Gruin: hi Justin [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect though with several avatars that will jump up fast [11:48] Arielle Popstar: Hi Key [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: where is the real problem now with mega's ? its still the viewer side ? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: the biggest mega i ever did was a 5x5 [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:48] Key Gruin: hi Arielle, hello all [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon, key: Do you know if the plazas are still seeing the ghost avatar issue with UnsafeQueueUserWorkItem? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: not that I am aware of [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: thats a bit the limit to run nice nebadon [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: Dan and Key would know better [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I have not had much time, plus being sick last week or so [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: I think the traditional issues like terraforming and various lsl functions not working properly [11:49] Key Gruin: acually Dan would know better thanI [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: yes justin, that are the old ones :O [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: there were patches for fixing various lsl functions but I can't apply because they do lots and lots of copy/paste [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: I've asked for this to be fixed [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: urg, that sound sbad [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks remembers that there was some thing in OS he wanted to fix but can't quite remember what it was [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone tested the sitting on non root prim in vehicle in Avination? [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Something involving people search [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: for the rubberbanding issue? [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i have not found a verhicle to try there [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I know my racer is over there some where [11:51] Robert Adams: I looked at the terrain editting problem and changing the packet throttling is complex.... would be easier to fix the editting code to reduce the number of theeain update packets sent [11:51] Cuteulala Artis is offline. [11:52] Ai Austin:. Yes Robert... the terrain editign can be a bit iffy [11:52] Ai Austin: can get lag and the suddenly things happen and so you radically overshoot the intended change. [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: interesting - I've never looked at the terrain editing code in detail [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Robert, that fix sounds also improvement for noirmal regions [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Al, that neve rhappend to me [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: I thought terrain editing problem whas that the brushes were so horrible [11:53] tx Oh: would be nice to have better terrain texture abilities [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, now you say it. not sure if the brushes strength works with every type of edit [11:54] Robert Adams: the terrain problem I'm talking about is editting taking forever -- you run the brushes over the terrain and it takes a long time for all teh changes to appear in the viewer [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: oh I dont remember seeing that [11:54] Ai Austin: Yes, I see that.. and when they come in they overshoot as you applied them a minute or two earlier. [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: they usually happen quickly for me [11:54] Ai Austin: ALL the time, on all grids I can terraform on [11:54] Vivian Klees: some brushes take forever or they go extreme [11:54] tx Oh: people get colors now! [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its mostly in megas dahlia [11:54] Ai Austin: Includign those with no other users present [11:54] Robert Adams: this is caused by the terrain packet throttling and because the terrain mode code sends zillions of update packets each heartbeat [11:55] Ai Austin: No megas on my setups [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Roberts. the first 10 second work fast. after that it get horrible slow. if you wait a bit 9it sometimes get normal speed back. but after some buffer is filled (i think) its slow [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: urgh [11:55] Arielle Popstar: works ok on a local standalone but on a grid it is finicky [11:55] Ai Austin: Yes, thats right [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya I never run standalones hardly [11:55] Ai Austin: its best to do 5 to 10 seconds on terraforming and then come back later [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and lately everything i do is mesh terrains [11:55] Ai Austin: All oyr setups are grids [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Just thinking, its not better to do more terrain calculations in memory before its saved to database ? [11:55] Tiffany Magic: Gotta run back to VH.... Thank you everyone!! [11:55] Ai Austin: Bye Tiffany [11:55] Arielle Popstar agrees with A [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: by tiff [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: bye tiffany [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: I remember edits always worked faster with mysql instead of sqlite [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: that's not the problem by the sound of it - the issue is the terrain code sending vast number of update packets to the viewer [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i use mysql, and that works not bad. but still not like sl [11:56] tx Oh: i do terrain editing in blender [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: they probably shouldnt store in a database [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: ok. justin. thats how it feels yes. [11:56] Ai Austin: We use MySQL for Openvue grid and for our OSGrid add on regions [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I've done some terrain editing using heightmaps and importing to Bailiwick [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: Al, did you improved the my.cnf settings ? [11:57] Ai Austin: loading a save terrian is VERY fast [11:57] Robert Adams: if you edit terrain and do a "show queues" on the console you can see all the terrain update packets queued to go to the viewer [11:57] Ai Austin: inclduing from OARs [11:57] Ai Austin: By the way... [11:57] Ai Austin: Just to say that Openvue core ROBUST server is soon moving onto a new Windows 8 i7 quad core processor 16GB memory with SSD disk setup on a gigabit ethernet connection to our Univ Internet switch. We are running latest 0.7.6 dev master and are Hypergrid accessible. [11:58] Ai Austin: Only builders directly are registered as avatars on Openvue. HG visitors from OSGrid etc. are encouraged for normal users. [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like a pretty meaty server [11:59] tx Oh: was this the ad break? [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: so briefly, I'm curious about the materials work. Is that actually in any viewer or are using the LL viewer? [11:59] Ai Austin: Hope so... and a secobd one will come in after that to run some core regions and our HG jump regions. [11:59] Ai Austin: :-) [11:59] Dahlia Trimble: justin will you be on IRC later? I have some questions about dynamic attributes [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: LL viewer [11:59] Vivian Klees: CoolVl has it [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: there is a special project viewer [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: oh right ya i saw Cool viewer had it now too [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: forgot about that [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: viewers now just get SSB [12:00] Ai Austin: I have to go folks. As usual VERY many thanks to you all for this effort. Its going great. [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye ai [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: by al [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: see you Ai [12:00] Ai Austin: Bye [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: bye [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I need to get going too. Be around on IRC a bit later [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks [12:00] Ai Austin is offline. [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:00] Arielle Popstar: tc Justin [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin, later man! talk soon [12:01] Dahlia Trimble: guess I'll go too, bye all :) [12:01] logger sewell: great meeting i need to go see if I can break the grid see ya'll next week [12:01] Arielle Popstar: get some rest from the vacation [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey waves