Chat log from the meeting on 2020-12-01

[11:00] Ubit Umarov:  oh Plugh's car Meooow meoowww outreach meow!

 plughs cat also

[11:00] Ubit Umarov: and see it works

[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone

[11:00] Kayaker Magic: lol

[11:00] Ubit Umarov: hi selby.Evans

[11:00] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Selby

[11:00] Kayaker Magic: Hi Selby!

[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby, Andrew

[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:00] Jagga Meredith: hi

[11:01] dj phil: Hello new arrivals

[11:01] Ubit Umarov: a cat so small should not smoke ada.Radius

[11:01] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know, might stunt my growth

[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: fur might catch fire

[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: A cat shouldn't smoke period. :)

[11:01] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: is only catnip

[11:02] Ubit Umarov: so andrew what news do you bring about opensim?

[11:02] Ubit Umarov: :)

[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Not much in the way of changes this past week. Most of them are related to changes in xmlrpc.

[11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2020/12/2020-vwedu-opensimulator-community.html

[11:03] dj phil: Thank's for kkAO's Kayaker, thank's for "The magic" :)

[11:03] Kayaker Magic: YVW

[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: mantis 8819 was addressed.

[11:03] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Who here is presenting this weekend and when?

[11:04] Ubit Umarov: (gezz who is that ulgy guy sitting on the floor on a presentation?)

[11:04] Ubit Umarov: ugly even

[11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I thought you said ugle

[11:04] Ubit Umarov: i may be at the usual spots

[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which means owl in Norwegian

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: openinf that that vip thing

[11:05] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: FACILITATING CONTENT PRODUCTION AND CONSUMPTION IN 3D VIRTUAL WORLDS, LESSONS LEARNED. PANEL DISCUSSION

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: well nothing much to tell

[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Hello Arielle!

[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Popstar

[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll be on the two OS dev team panels. I will also be on one other panel but not sure when that is right now.

[11:05] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Hi Kayaker

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: no 0.9.2 release till then still

[11:05] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Popstar!

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: not sure fs will release meanwhile

[11:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Hi all

[11:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Hi Gavin

[11:06] Ubit Umarov: any release till then of dayturn or scenegate?

[11:06] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Arielle

[11:06] Ubit Umarov: ie this week :)

[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sorry... I am watching a presser on the national budget

[11:07] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: No near term release on Scenegate

[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: HI Selby. (guesssing names here as names still loading

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: well those changes on xmlrpc aren't all that much tested..

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: till then?

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when?

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: will be as soon Dan updates osgrid robust

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: and regions

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, steevithak and Arielle.

[11:07] steevithak x: howdy

[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Hi ANdrew

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: they are just cpu and work memory savings

[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Dan is updating Robust?

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: removing intermediate string variables and conversions really not need

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: and some like at login particulary large

[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: If there are a LL maint release between now and their no release window that has relevant changes, there might be one new Dayturn version before Christmas

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: he already did last week

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: just not this last change of today

[11:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: must be big changes as he doesnt usually update the robusts

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: one of those strings was even scanned looking for a token, to fix a xmlrpc.dll bug

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: that i think i fixed on it now

[11:11] Ubit Umarov: well being a old version was by itself a reason to update

[11:11] Ubit Umarov: not that much changes directly on robust, but a few did happen

[11:11] Ubit Umarov: spcially in last weeks

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: presenceservice now has a tinu cache, saving some work on mysql

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: a tiny..

[11:12] Kayaker Magic: What sort of fixes to robust?

[11:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: uh oh ..."tiny"

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: so does griduserservice. this one also a fix on some issues

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: consquence of those caches is that a grid can only have one instance of each running

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: but with that cache, one should be better than a few instances

[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ?

[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: do people have mutliple grid instances on one robust?

[11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so caches are no longer per region instance?

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: yes some do run several instances

[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ouch

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: im talksing about robust side arielle not regions

[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm currently using a standalone with three regions in it. I'm not using it with Robust.

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: in case or presence ( that includes online) regions cant cache

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: they do.. but only for a few seconds

[11:16] Ubit Umarov: on robust, presence can be cached all the time

[11:16] Ubit Umarov: it is a read cache

[11:16] Ubit Umarov: writes update the cache and the db

[11:17] Kayaker Magic: Doesn't MySQL already have its own huge cache?

[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: depends on how you tune it

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: who cares.. that is on the other side of a tcp connection

[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: defaults are pretty small

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: and are diferent caches

[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, the size of MySQL caches depend on how a person has configured it.

[11:18] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: robust has always had cache's?

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: you mean never had cache :p

[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: important on the db side are memory allocations that are used for sorting, inserts and indexes

[11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok so its a new thing

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: and not that possible or usefull on all things

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: presence is one

[11:19] Kayaker Magic: So for people who have multiple instances, can they turn these new caches off in the INI files?

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: very small information per user

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: like less than 1KB

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: only there while a user in online...

[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what are the cache's main purpose?

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: so even a large region can cache all users online

[11:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: assets?

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: just online data

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: as i said, can't be cached region side

[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: will that help with hypergrid visitors?

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: and it is a heavy duty thing

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: no

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: the griduser one may.. once in the grid

[11:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: may?

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: yes may

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: grid user is on other code paths.. a bit more complex

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: but well will help ofc

[11:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and what sort of sizes can we expect of these robust cache's?

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: dan did reported some improvement on robust load

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: on presence less than 1KB * Number of local grid users online

[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Dan does have many instances of some robust services, he's ok with these changes?

[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: probably till they break

[11:25] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: may break

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: he does not

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: not anymore

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: and robust can be splited into several instances without duplication of services

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: in some cases ppl do duplicate some

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: BUT

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: that requeires some form of sync of the dbs

[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: this mostly is a benefit only for larger grids then that have multiple instances?

[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have a separate texture instance

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: think osgrid is running several inventory instances

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: and maybe assets service.. not sure now

[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: assets is the biigest isnt it

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: we did had nasty issues bc of desync on the assets

[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: biggest

[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: textures is most volume

[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Usually is the biggest, Arielle.

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: yes but assets ( not textures) do have regiosn cache

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: and those are fundamental

[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: why do they take so long?

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: bc they are normal huge things

[11:30] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: see the caches are why i cant figure out the purpose of throtteling

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: it is well known that a 0.1x0.1x0.1 box much have 1024px textures to be seen weill, right?

[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: :)

[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: if each region has a cache for assets, then why the need to still throttle

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: bc regions are not viewers

[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but the viewer has its own cache

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: yes also very important

[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewer also has trottles

[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes but 10 minutes to load 10 avatars?

[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because, as I have siad before, there is only so much delta work that can be done per frame

[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002 whispers: said*

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: it is less than 10min on a nude beach

[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: or even 5 minutes to load myself when i am the only one on?

[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where do you experience that Arielle?

[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: its like the caces are no longer used

[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i have seen that on recent version of opensim

[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: versions

[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: even ones i was hosting myself

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: ive seen that at sl.. but details :p

[11:34] Kayaker Magic: For grids that already have multiple instances of robust, is there a way to turn off the new caches?

[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: s/l is quite a bit better lately

[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IDK, but I routinely test the viewer TPing with a blank cache to LBSA, and usually the region plus everyone there are rezzed within 2-4 minutes

[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: though a lot o quirks

[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: many of them have heavy mesh avatars

[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: the heavy ones seeem to load the fastest

[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not always

[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of them can look pretty grotesque for a while

[11:36] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but yah until they sort out a better method for measuring complexity it is hard to really determine what "heavy" really means

[11:37] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: but it's OK as a relative measurement. Your avatar is heavier than Selby's avatar, for example

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: not sure why viewers ask for intermediate resolutions when they could ask for the needed one directly

[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it might be that Dayturn actually loads the region faster simply because it does not do any complexity filtering at all

[11:37] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but thats a lab issue

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: Beq also noticed similar waste on textures

[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a LOT of complexity code in other viewers that runs per frame

[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: This past week I was working on a minor change to the OAR loading code.

[11:39] Kayaker Magic: I think there is a different problem here, that Arielle calls "slow loading mesh". Those complex avatars meshes load, then display in the wrong position or size. The position and size never loads, even if you wait 20 minutes. A throttle does not do that, I think it is a situation where the size/position data is lost and never retransmitted.

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: during last week Beq has been busy looking to old jiras related to opensim

[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok yes Kay, been seeing that too

[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I ran across an issue when I was loading an OAR in to a 3x3 region only to find out the OAR was from a 5x5. The mod is to spit out a warning if the region is too small for the size specified in the OAR file.

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: closing/fixing a few

[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: needing to relog to actually see it correctly

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: guess gavin also

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: today i gave her a new one :)

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: alos for you gavin.Hird

[11:40] Kayaker Magic: I don't mind mesh loading slowly, but if it NEVER GETS SIZED PROPERLY, even after an hour, something is missing.

[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what was that all about Ubit?

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: https://jira.firestormviewer.org/browse/FIRE-30537

[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh that be handy Andrew

[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: It got quiet for a moment. I thought the topic of mesh loading was done. :)

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: i was forgetting to tell you.. guess a dayturn issue also

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( guess source line number is not the same )

[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: if you test go here, here you will endup some meters off the target

[11:42] Ubit Umarov: that is the reason

[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen that

[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a few meters short

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: viewer sends very low precision

[11:43] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: isnt that so you dont land on the heads of other avatars?

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: 6 digits yeack

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: it is only on autopilot

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ie when we click on terrain and then "go here" or how viewers tell it

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: it is a old issue.. i fixed region side code.. but that is viewer side

[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think it is actually using OpenGL screen coordinates to find the point it is pointing to

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: yes on the line i pasted first there

[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is also why Bulletsim fails on the Pi that does not have full OpenGL support

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: but that does return a vector3d

[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: was there ever a jira for the hypergrid  naming convention?

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: then the "%G" totally loses the resolution

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: #%g"

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: grrrr

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: "%g"

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it does use OpenGL screen coordinates, the precision is also dependent of screen resolution

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: yes but it is good

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: see the numbers i give was example there

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: think my test region is like at 8000,9000 grid coords

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: so 9 digits are needed to send a position with cm error

[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Precision of where something is rezzed from inventory depends on the same

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: here we are at 11089

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: so at least one more digit

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: yes. there are presicion issues

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: reason why i did limit regions to 4km size

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: well one reason

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: i also didn't remember that %g defaults to 6 digits in c++

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: guess that is also a issue at sl

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: don't remember what is their max grid coords

[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: We are close to the top of the hour. Before people start leaving, one reminder.

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have the same code as FS does

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well but clear a bug.. the need for vector3d was correclty found, then the string is trimmed to single number of digits

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: well %.15g" works

[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: The yearly Open Simulator Community Conference is being held this year on December 5 and 6. That is this coming weekend. For information on how to register, and to see the conference schedule, go to https://conference.opensimulator.org

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: ppl can pinpoit a hair strand with that :p

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: .12 may be ok also..

[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some prim hair has pretty big strands

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: but .15 is the natural for usefull double digits

[11:54] Jagga Meredith: dammit I want angstrom resolution

[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: no idea what Beq will use, mb you 2 can decide

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: as long you give me at least cm resolution on any grid position :)

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would think a mouse with Ångström resolution would be pretty hard to operate

[11:56] dj phil: Only 512 max view distance for Angtorm pfff pfffff

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: :)

[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah. Found the other panel I'm supposed to be on -> FACILITATING CONTENT PRODUCTION AND CONSUMPTION IN 3D VIRTUAL WORLDS, LESSONS LEARNED.

[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Being held Dec 5 at 10am PT.

[11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what are the lessons learned?

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well ill try to be there on the opensim ( just to say Hi ) and that vip thing

[11:57] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: err i should tell them something

[11:57] dj phil: If you have done with viewer's, i have a question for Ubit

[11:58] dj phil: You have done ?

[11:58] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: dont be shy

[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: At 11am on the 5th Maria Korolov has a presentation on the State of OpenSimulator Community.

[11:58] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: just ask'

[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, dj

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: are you listening to region stream dj ?

[11:58] dj phil: Okay okay ^^

[11:59] dj phil: Maybe you can explain this XML error in the current Dev Master

https://pastebin.com/DquPi57e

She appeared suddenly I do not know for what ...

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: no answers if you are listening to house :p

[11:59] Now playing: Nick Phoenix - Riders of the Apocalypse

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: that does not look like xmlrpc

[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, you will have to attend the panel to find out what lessons were learned. :)

[12:00] dj phil: No, but I don't know what produces this

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: last repo i had on a fail like that was on a prim light

[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: dj, What is the source of that object/data? I see it saw an unexpected NUL byte.

[12:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: haha Andrew. Was hoping for insider tips

[12:01] dj phil: i see "[serverUtils.ParseXmlResponse]: failed error: '.', hexadecimal value 0x00, is an invalid character. Line 1, position 41947."

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah find position 41947 on that yeack

[12:02] Now playing: Two Steps From Hell - Archangel

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: is this what a old oar or a old prim?

[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: dj, I looked at the data in the pastebin. There are invalid characters in the name of the item.

[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: &#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;&#x0;

[12:03] Jagga Meredith: oops

[12:04] dj phil: @Ubit : It looks like you could be right about EEP (would be the cause)

I just connected with a NON EEP viewer and the error message does not appear

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: i said nothing about eep, did i ?

[12:04] Now playing: Sabaton - Angels Calling

[12:04] dj phil: ha we sorry ... it appeared. But only after a while. Sorry

[12:04] dj phil: Grrrrrr

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: hmm this is inventory no?

[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the top of the hour. If someone has a question who needs to be leaving soon, raise your hand.

[12:06] dj phil: Ha ok Andrew, thank you I will invest the research in this direction ...

But it's amazing, I didn't have this message before ...

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: mb a item saved when i had issues on osutf8 ?

[12:06] dj phil: @ Kayaker Magic: Do you know the "Better Collada" plugin for Blender?

(It allows to save .dae with binormals and other additional parameters).

I saw that you were talking about this at a previous meeting (2020-11-17).

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: but dont remember any case giving so many '0' on a name

[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: dj, I know of it. It is rather old, AFAIR. Not sure if it is still relevant for Blender 2.8

[12:07] Kayaker Magic: No, but it sounds interesting, there have been problems with saving DAEs in the past so I am interested.

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: i seen people complaining about that on blender

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: hoe blender does not export those to collada and fbx

[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Make that Blender 2.90 :)

[12:08] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: looks like that plugin does have a Blender 2.8 version. Don'e know if it'll work for OS

[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the question is : will it blend?

[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: :)

[12:08] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: the fbx exporter for Blender 2.91 is OK

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: dj we may talk abotu that issue on irc later

[12:09] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm using it

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: for now filed as "broken" Dj thing :p

[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does avastar work with 2.91?

[12:09] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: not well

[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have the Better Collada plug-in installed in my Blender 2.90 install.

[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I though so

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: ahh i had to make a plugin for blender 2.9

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: lol

[12:09] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: last version Avastar worked well for was Blender 2.79

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: me making a plugin for that :)

[12:10] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm in Blender 2.91, exporting to OS without Avastar

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: they removed raw mesh suport

[12:10] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: no problems if the files is set up OK

[12:10] dj phil: @Kayaker : https://github.com/artellblender/collada-exporter-2.8

[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok Ada - good to know

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: so i took the old one compared to new ones and made it work,,, import at least

[12:10] Now playing: Era - After Time

[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. Didn't know 2.91 came out.

[12:10] Kayaker Magic: Thanks dj, that might help me with that binormal problem.

[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was only a few days back Andrew

[12:11] Ubit Umarov: oh i have 2.90.1

[12:11] dj phil: Hope Kay :)

[12:11] Ubit Umarov: not going to update.. may lose my plugin

[12:11] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: At the RuthAndRoth github /References /Ada Radius I have a stash of armatures that I futz with now and then that work for 2.91 exporting to OS. And a bunch of wikis and readmes that Ai Austin helped me put together

[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I have 2.90.0

[12:12] Kayaker Magic: I have 2.91 but it sort of half way upgraded itself to 2.92 in a confusing manner.

[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. Not that it matters as I don't use Blender very often.

[12:12] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: 2.91 just makes minor improvements to 2.9. I like it

[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't use it often too

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: ( i only have blender to see the meshes ubodemeshmerizer creates :) )

[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: By the time I use it again I've forgotten some of what I had learned about using it the last time.

[12:13] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm in there now as I stay in this meeting lololol

[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just noted there was a 2.91 update. Did not bother to watch the changes video yet

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: wel and see some collada now and then

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: but i neede that raw format importer grrr

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: why did they killed it?

[12:13] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: The FS viewer improvements for rigged mesh import are very nice

[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what do they do?

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: ll merged fs mesh upload to their viewer and made a few changes

[12:14] Now playing: Two Steps From Hell - Cortex

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: not sure if fs is using their older code or the revised ll one

[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have taken all those Ubit, but left out all the cost calcs

[12:14] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I think I'm running a beta that Beq sent out. They show more errors before you try to import - I haven't had a silent fail yet on it

[12:15] dj phil: Rigs without constraints would be cool :p

[12:15] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: a log and such

[12:15] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: a whole new viewer written from the ground up would be cool

[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: That is in Dayturn too Ada

[12:15] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: OK

[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have taken all the LL changes that originated in FS

[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but FS added a few more changes to their dev repository lately

[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure what they do

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: thinkj most mesh upload changes where made by Beq

[12:16] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yikes I have to go. TY everyone

[12:17] Now playing: Two Steps From Hell - Na Vedui

[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they were Ubit

[12:17] Kayaker Magic: Bye Ada

[12:17] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: supposed to be a new FS release

[12:17] Ubit Umarov: they are getting ready

[12:17] Ubit Umarov: just some ppl keeps adding jiras

[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Bye, Ada.

[12:17] Ubit Umarov: bad people

[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL usually freeze their viewer mid Desember, FS does the same

[12:18] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: last week they mentioned within a few days

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: i should stop breaking master

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: to do a release also

[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: :)

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: last was what one year ago?

[12:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then you must throw a release party

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: cant corona curfew

[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, you have a few days to go if you want to release it in time for it to be announced during the OSCC keynote.

[12:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats just enough time for a pre release

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: puff i just commited untested code today

[12:20] Now playing: Two Steps From Hell - Heaven and Earth

[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: tsk tsk. Bad Ubit. ;)

[12:20] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: remember how they used to do opensim releases?

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: well 0.9.2.1 sure will follow 0.9.2.0 withing a few week

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: always happens

[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to figure out why my simple change to the OAR loading code spits out a message about missing ) and ; when the line in question is in the middle of an if conditional.

[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if voting machines can go live with untested code, so can you

[12:21] Ubit Umarov: duu opensim is bad.. Not that bad as voting machines

[12:21] Ubit Umarov: ;)

[12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: those sound like a royal mess

[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or should we say republic mess

[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: if (scene.RegionInfo.RegionSizeX < x m_incomingRegionSize.X ||

scene.RegionInfo.RegionSizeY < x m_incomingRegionSize.Y)

[12:22] Now playing: Jazz club - Let it be me

[12:22] Ubit Umarov: x m_ ??

[12:22] Now playing: Jazz club - Let it be me

[12:23] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, what is that extra space there?

[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: the m_ is an internal variable to the ArchiveReadRequest.cs file.

[12:23] Ubit Umarov: what is the x ? :P

[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: D'oh!

[12:24] Kayaker Magic: LOL

[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Asking someone for help is a good way to spot the error oneself. :)

[12:24] Ubit Umarov: and no idea what you are trying... load is suposed to work with diferent region size

[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: It sort of works. I was trying to load an OAR from a 5x5 in to a 3x3 region. Didn't know the difference in expected sizes until I looked at the control file in the OAR.

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: it does tell, i think

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: while doing it :)

[12:25] Now playing: Two Steps From Hell - Battleborne

[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it should just auto-expand the region, haha

[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I think it spat out some messages about problems loading. My error will spit out a warning before it starts loading terrain or objects and let you know the expected size and the region size.

[12:26] Ubit Umarov: hard to expand 5x into 3x :p

[12:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or shrink

[12:26] Ubit Umarov: but it will clip

[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Scale the positions of objects. :)

[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, it did clip.

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: scale everything :)

[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that would be great

[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: That could be an interesting feature.

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: not really :p

[12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: welcome to midget world

[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: It would only work if everything was down scalable.

[12:28] Ubit Umarov: ok ok forget i said "scale everything" :)

[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, good. My code compiled this time.

[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or is it called size challenged person now?

[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Once more with feeling after a clean as I think there were warnings of duplicate assembly statements in some add on modules.

[12:29] Ubit Umarov: fix your modules .xml files

[12:29] Ubit Umarov: told you how, once :p

[12:29] Ubit Umarov: ot twice even

[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: This is a new warning I've not seen before -> Source file 'obj/Debug/.NETFramework,Version=v4.6.AssemblyAttributes.cs' specified multiple times

[12:29] Ubit Umarov: yes

[12:29] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go -- Bye all

[12:30] Ubit Umarov: need excludes

[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, bye Selby.

[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye Selby

[12:30] Ubit Umarov: cya Selby.Evans

[12:30] Ubit Umarov: on the files match things

[12:30] Ubit Umarov: look to main xml

[12:30] Now playing: Era - Adagio For Strings (Agnus Dei Edit)

[12:31] Ubit Umarov: obj/Debug <-- ms does create tmp .cs files there.. prebuild adds them to solution if the excludes are not present on the xml

[12:31] Ubit Umarov: ms_build does create..

[12:31] dj phil: i need to go too, tank's for this meeting. Ciao :)

[12:32] dj phil: Thank's*

[12:32] Ubit Umarov: cya there <--- dj

[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: tc, dj.

[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Its half past the hour. Time to wrap up todays meeting.

[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. Hope to see some of you during the OSCC. See you all again next week.