Chat log from the meeting on 2009-12-01

[10:55] Friendly Harbour: hi adelle [10:55] Adelle Fitzgerald: hello all :) [10:55]  Master Dubrovna: Hi Adelle [10:55]  Friendly Harbour: hello to all [10:55]  Richardus Raymaker: ? for SL yes. osgrid dotn know. emerald is difficult to add other grid [10:55]  Michael Skelito: emerald viewer dont like OS huh [10:56]  Gigadreamer Bazar is Offline [10:56]  Richardus Raymaker: besides it still dont rember password. but all viewers wipe passwords sometimes. (from other viewers) [10:56]  Michael Skelito: crashed twice trying to get in [10:56]  Gigadreamer Bazar is Online [10:56]  Friendly Harbour: i never use emerald in os, only in sl [10:56]  Michael Skelito: hippo is fine [10:56]  Friendly Harbour: i use hippo in os [10:56]  Richardus Raymaker: still hippo here [10:56]  Master Dubrovna: same here [10:56]  Michael Skelito: ya just found out hehe [10:57]  Michael Skelito: hows the software doing these days? [10:57]  paulie Flomar: Howdeh. :) [10:57] Adelle Fitzgerald: hello [10:57]  Penny Lane: Imprudence 1.2.1 is released now, and is 100% stable in OSgrid on Linux 32-bit, if anyone is having trouble with stability. [10:57]  Friendly Harbour: wow ... lots of chat lag :( [10:58] Michael Skelito: 10 fps [10:58] Tesira Luco is Offline [10:58] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, all. :) [10:58] Gigadreamer Bazar is Offline [10:59]  Penny Lane: http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Downloads [10:59]  Friendly Harbour: hi paulie [10:59]  Master Dubrovna: Hi paulie [10:59]  paulie Flomar: Howdeh, Friendly. :) and Master. [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:59] Michael Skelito: Mr Paulie hidy ho [10:59]  paulie Flomar: Howdeh hi, Michael! [11:00] Friendly Harbour: is imprudence based on LL code or is it completely new code? [11:00] Penny Lane: LL code [11:00] Eryn Galen is Online [11:00] Friendly Harbour: kk [11:00]  paulie Flomar: Welcome, JCC! [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hello gentlepeople [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hi paulie [11:00] Will Boudreaux is Offline [11:00] Penny Lane: Hiya JCC [11:00] Friendly Harbour: are there any viewers now that don't use the LL code as their base? [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hey penny [11:00] Nebadon Izumi is Online [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: there were a few that were mentioned in opensim-dev mailing list recently [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: the naali realxtend browser is one [11:01] Friendly Harbour: but are they getting to a state where they can be considered stable and complete or still early work? [11:01] Mojito Sorbet: Radegast is another, though currently without graphics [11:01] Qandy Saw: hey Nebadon :) [11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey nods [11:02]  Mojito Sorbet: Some graphics plugins are in the works for it [11:02]  Penny Lane: Friendly: none full-featured. But there are several early prototypes. Dahlia is working on Idealist (with Tera I think), and there's realXtend's, and text clients of various kinds too. [11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: friendly: all early work I would say (?) [11:02]  Penny Lane: Yeah [11:02]  Michael Skelito is Offline [11:02]  Friendly Harbour: that's what i thought [11:02]  Friendly Harbour: guess i will stick with hippo in os and emerald in sl for a while yet [11:02]  Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi nebadon [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:02]  Friendly Harbour: hi neb [11:03]  Michael Skelito is Online [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: what do people think of the impudence viewer? [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: er, imprudence [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ive not tried it yet myself [11:03] Penny Lane: My bet's on Naali, because those guys are working like bats out of hell. Would be nice to have more devs on Idealist too though. [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: never heared that one [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: i quite happy sticking with Hippo [11:03] paulie Flomar: HAvent tried it lately. [11:03] Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:03] Mojito Sorbet: When I do not need gfx, or can not afford the CPU load, I use Radegast. Otherwise those you mention [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: but hippo isn't being actively developed now (?) [11:03] Michael Skelito: carp crashed [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: no but it works perfectly almost [11:03] Friendly Harbour: i don't know much about imprudence ... i just got the link from penny ... i have to try it out [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ive yet to find another useable viewer [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: that is better than hippo yet [11:03] Mojito Sorbet: You do not HAVE to use Hippo to get to osgrid. It just is more convenient to do so [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie is interested in finding someone to revive hippo viewer also [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody ever tried snowglobe? I'm not sure if it even works with OpenSim... [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its not OSG compatible [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: you have texture and map issues [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:04]  Friendly Harbour: i've tried snowglobe in sl, never tried it in os [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: thats why meerkat also was no longer OSG compatible [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: cause they addopted to many Snowglobe features [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: really?? [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and it was no longer compatible here [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: yep [11:04] paulie Flomar: MK no longer compatible? dang. [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: my understanding is Meerkat is dead [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: all the active devs have moved to imprudence [11:05] Michael Skelito: emerald sorta works here [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: what? but it looked to be going pretty well [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya its done [11:05] Hiro Protagonist: I think K\O\W is still working on meerkat isnt he? [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: they only jhust made a release last sept. hmm [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i was informed yesterday [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: he is not [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: he moved to imprudence [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: he was who informed me [11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: that MK was dead [11:05] Master Dubrovna: wow [11:05] Mojito Sorbet: How is imprudence different from Emerald in goals? [11:05] Penny Lane: I've tried them all here at these meetings, on Linux 32-bit. As a rule, the 1.22.11-based ones survive at this meeting, and the 1.23+ ones don't. [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie_T confirmed [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Meerkat is dead [11:05] Penny Lane: Ouch [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: aah. then i can wipe that one [11:06] Michael Skelito: R.I.P Meerkat [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: short life [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: well, if all the devs are consolidating that might be a good thing.... [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:06]  Penny Lane: Are the Meerkat devs moving to another? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i dont know the story, Melanie_T was not at liberty to divulge what she knew [11:06] Mojito Sorbet: Yes, get a reasonable number of people working on ONE. [11:06] Friendly Harbour: hmmm ... i must say that this is a repeating problem with many of the viewer projects ... they start out great, lots of ideas etc but then ppl move on to other projects and the viewers end up half-finished or worse [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: but basiclly the short story is it just imploded on itself [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i guess maybe arguments with the devs [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: viewers are not trivial projects [11:06] paulie Flomar: did we get an answer as to whether IMprudence is free of LInden code? Sorreh if I missed teh answer. [11:06] Master Dubrovna: That happens [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: no its a LL viewer [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: just like Meerkat [11:07] Penny Lane: If all the viewer devs focussed on ONE from scratch (or joined realXtend), Opensim would benefit immensely. [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: infact the codebase will be almost identical to meeerkat soon [11:07] Mojito Sorbet: Well, the first third is fun, the middle third goes slower, and really finishing it off is just tediium. So people get tired of it [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: they are merging all meerkat features into Imprudence as we speak [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: well, more consolidatio nwould be good, though that has to be balanced by competition :) [11:07]  Friendly Harbour: i know they are not trivial, they are in fact very complex projects and that just makes it more of a problem when too many viewers are started, but none get finished [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: well remember none of these viewers started [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: they are all just LL modded viewers [11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: friendly: true - I just meant that it's hard to keep them going for the long haul [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: none are original [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: so they would likely never be finished [11:08]  Friendly Harbour: true neb [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: in the general sense of finished [11:08]  Mojito Sorbet: And we have libomv sitting there.... [11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, that's like saying a web browser is 'finished', perhaps [11:08] Mojito Sorbet: I would settle for "usable" [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [11:08]  Michael Skelito: web.alive plugin huh lol [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: well Meerkat is semi-usable [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: who knows someone may revive it [11:09]  Mojito Sorbet: The LL viewer is heading for a major redesign. Hopefully the alt viewers will pick up on that [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: as long as you can live without the map [11:09] Friendly Harbour: i feel the best would be to have a small central core viewer with the basic functions and expandable with modules/add-ons [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: my current understanding though is all the active devs are already over to Imprudence [11:09] Key Gruin is Online [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: btw imprudence is more mature and older than Meerkat is [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: its been around longer [11:09] Friendly Harbour: that way ppl with good ideas could just make small addons rather than start a new viewer each time they get an idea [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: probably just no one heard of it [11:09]  Penny Lane: Really we need an original that the community can focus on. The daft 6-month policy is hampering progress, and that would be avoided if a non-LL viewer base were used. Like Naali for example. [11:10] Mojito Sorbet: First I heard of it was 10 minutes ago [11:10] Michael Skelito: hippo seems to be going good still [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya i mostly use Hippo [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: 90% of the time [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it rarely fails me [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: unlike every other viewer does [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Meerkat was pretty terrible for me in terms of crashing [11:10] Michael Skelito: just crashed twice with emerald here [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it crashed constantly [11:10] Mojito Sorbet: But the internal structure of all the LL-derived viewers is very non-modular [11:10] Penny Lane: Neb: try the new Imprudence 1.2.1 just released. Rock solid here. [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya i also hear emerald is very crashy [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: k yes Penny i have to admit, ive never tried it [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: but i will for sure [11:10] Friendly Harbour: i agree, hippo is still a good viewer, but it hasn't been updated in a while [11:11] Mojito Sorbet: Emerald nevere crashes for me (at least on Vista) [11:11] Hiro Protagonist: so lets talk about opensim [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: would be nice if someone go further with hippo [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya thing is there is nothing missing from hippo i need [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: so why update it [11:11]  Richardus Raymaker: some things like grid configs are still the best in hippo [11:11] Michael Skelito: I like hippos interface [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: there is nothing in the new viewers that really is worthy of merging into hippo IMHO [11:11] Mojito Sorbet: Emerald has that multi-alt login feature, which could easily be extended to multi-grid [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: right skelito [11:12] Michael Skelito: emerald has bouncing boobies too [11:12] Michael Skelito: lol [11:12] Penny Lane: Oh, WP is at 0.6.9. What's new since 0.6.8? [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: emerald login. for other grids. never tried. [11:12] paulie Flomar: heh [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: to be honest i think most of the things in these modded viewers are just plain dumb [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: like viewer SIDE AO and Jiggly boobs [11:12] Friendly Harbour: lol ... that is a veery important feature mojito lol [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: plain old dumb [11:12] Master Dubrovna: sometimes simple is better [11:12] Warin Cascabel: I find some of the newer features useful. [11:12] Mojito Sorbet: The EmeraLD rADAR AND ao FEATURES ARE THE ONLY TWO i REALLY CARE ABOUT [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: well true [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: the Radar is nice [11:12] Mojito Sorbet: oops [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: 0.6.8 is currently in release candidate mode. 0.6.9 will be the next dev release (or 0.7) [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: but i can live without it [11:13]  Warin Cascabel: When you're helping newbies in Lbsa, it's nice to see their look-at crosshairs, so you can tell them "no, it's over to the left". [11:13] Mojito Sorbet: Getting those htings out of the sims when a viewer already has the necessary information is goodness [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: Warin can't every viewer do that? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: even Hippo? [11:13] Michael Skelito: lookat takes all the fun out of sneek peeks [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its a debug setting? [11:13] Penny Lane: Neb: we may think that. But apparently the masses voted with their feet for juggly boobs. :-) Sadly, Emerald isn't stable here on Linux. [11:13] Friendly Harbour: warin: the look-at features are in all viewers (ll-based) [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: well the problem with jiggly boobs [11:13]  Mojito Sorbet: The look-at is in all viewers. Emerald adds names ot them [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: is not everyone sees them [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: so to me its a waste of time [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: if only 1% fo the grid sees it [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: what is the point [11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: imprudence are advertising improved opensim support in their latest release (1.2) [11:14]  Michael Skelito: seems there was a bug with that...loosing shapes [11:14]  Adelle Fitzgerald: you could say that about windlight when that was first released [11:14]  Mojito Sorbet: And it also spends even more CPU/gfx resources on a viewer that is already way overkill in resources [11:14]  Warin Cascabel: Every viewer can, Nebadon - but Meerkat prints the person's name above the crosshairs [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: no the jiggly boobs [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: i agree with nebadon. that future is global seen so useless [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: you have to have emerald [11:14] Warin Cascabel: Which Hippo doesn't do (and it's easier to enable in Meerkat) [11:14] Penny Lane: All features are optional, so you can never guarentee everyone sees the same thing. In fact, if you run two viewers side by side with the same settings, they're STILL not seeing the same thing. There's a lot of positional slack and uncertainty. [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: oh you were answering my other question Warin [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: sorry [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: mixing up topics [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:15] Will Boudreaux is Online [11:15] Warin Cascabel: yeah, sorry, I'm on a conference call, so I'm a bit behind. [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: anyine done anything cool with opensim lately? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: no problem [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: like, say, amke a 350 prim physical vehicle? [11:15] Adelle Fitzgerald: me! lol [11:15] Mojito Sorbet: I stopped following it when they switched to GIT, so I am a bit behind the curve [11:16] Michael Skelito: same [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i was playing around with a Molecule creator i found on SL [11:16]  Adelle Fitzgerald: well, its about 320 or something, but not finished yet [11:16] Penny Lane: Or billion-zone megaregions :P [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunatly the software required to generate the molecule data is retail [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: so its not as fun as i hoped [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: I'm wrapping up the build on the motorcycle, it's somewhere near 550 right now [11:16] Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.340000,0.290000,-0.270000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.780000,0.370000,0.340000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.640000,-0.210000,0.810000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-0.890000,-0.250000,0.960000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-0.480000,-0.270000,0.310000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-0.660000,0.270000,-0.080000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.200000,-0.230000,0.470000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.640000,-0.220000,-0.080000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.250000,-0.670000,0.070000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.900000,0.490000,-0.210000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.470000,0.480000,-0.740000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <2.010000,0.000000,-0.520000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.730000,-0.640000,-0.440000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <2.520000,-0.040000,-1.010000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.730000,1.130000,-0.810000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.410000,0.920000,-0.460000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-0.750000,-0.810000,1.360000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-2.010000,-0.140000,1.400000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.640000,0.980000,0.680000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.430000,0.880000,-0.770000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.000000,0.790000,-1.320000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.030000,-1.400000,0.160000> - C [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.600000,-1.800000,0.280000> - O [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.470000,-0.160000,-0.530000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-2.300000,0.360000,0.190000> - H [11:16]  Michael Skelito: ow [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.790000,-0.670000,0.560000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-0.740000,0.190000,1.240000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-0.590000,-0.730000,0.050000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.400000,-0.400000,-0.540000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.470000,-0.500000,0.540000> - H [11:16]  Hiro Protagonist: heh [11:16] Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.110000,0.680000,0.240000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.250000,0.310000,-1.210000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <2.240000,0.150000,-0.050000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <2.800000,0.410000,-1.020000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.940000,1.310000,-0.350000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.200000,1.230000,-0.060000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-0.880000,-1.260000,1.100000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-2.540000,-0.150000,1.300000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.900000,1.380000,0.440000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.290000,1.340000,-0.520000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.950000,0.900000,-0.930000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <-1.140000,0.350000,-1.600000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.790000,-1.570000,-0.280000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <0.690000,-1.440000,0.580000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing atom: <1.840000,-1.660000,0.750000> - H [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.340000,0.290000,-0.270000> - <-1.430000,0.880000,-0.770000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.340000,0.290000,-0.270000> - <-1.470000,-0.160000,-0.530000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.340000,0.290000,-0.270000> - <-0.660000,0.270000,-0.080000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.340000,0.290000,-0.270000> - <-1.780000,0.370000,0.340000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.780000,0.370000,0.340000> - <-2.300000,0.360000,0.190000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.780000,0.370000,0.340000> - <-1.640000,0.980000,0.680000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.780000,0.370000,0.340000> - <-1.640000,-0.210000,0.810000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.640000,-0.210000,0.810000> - <-1.790000,-0.670000,0.560000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.640000,-0.210000,0.810000> - <-0.890000,-0.250000,0.960000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.640000,-0.210000,0.810000> - <-2.010000,-0.140000,1.400000> - s [11:16]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-0.890000,-0.250000,0.960000> - <-0.480000,-0.270000,0.310000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-0.890000,-0.250000,0.960000> - <-0.740000,0.190000,1.240000> - s [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: heh damng [11:17] Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-0.890000,-0.250000,0.960000> - <-0.750000,-0.810000,1.360000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-0.480000,-0.270000,0.310000> - <-0.660000,0.270000,-0.080000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-0.480000,-0.270000,0.310000> - <-0.590000,-0.730000,0.050000> - s [11:17]  Hiro Protagonist: that's not -my- molecule rezzer [11:17] Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-0.480000,-0.270000,0.310000> - <0.200000,-0.230000,0.470000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.200000,-0.230000,0.470000> - <0.640000,-0.220000,-0.080000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.640000,-0.220000,-0.080000> - <0.400000,-0.400000,-0.540000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.640000,-0.220000,-0.080000> - <0.900000,0.490000,-0.210000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.640000,-0.220000,-0.080000> - <1.250000,-0.670000,0.070000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.250000,-0.670000,0.070000> - <1.730000,-0.640000,-0.440000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.250000,-0.670000,0.070000> - <1.030000,-1.400000,0.160000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.250000,-0.670000,0.070000> - <1.470000,-0.500000,0.540000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.900000,0.490000,-0.210000> - <1.470000,0.480000,-0.740000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.900000,0.490000,-0.210000> - <0.410000,0.920000,-0.460000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.900000,0.490000,-0.210000> - <1.110000,0.680000,0.240000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.470000,0.480000,-0.740000> - <1.250000,0.310000,-1.210000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.470000,0.480000,-0.740000> - <1.730000,1.130000,-0.810000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.470000,0.480000,-0.740000> - <2.010000,0.000000,-0.520000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <2.010000,0.000000,-0.520000> - <2.520000,-0.040000,-1.010000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <2.010000,0.000000,-0.520000> - <1.730000,-0.640000,-0.440000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <2.010000,0.000000,-0.520000> - <2.240000,0.150000,-0.050000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <2.520000,-0.040000,-1.010000> - <2.800000,0.410000,-1.020000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.730000,1.130000,-0.810000> - <1.940000,1.310000,-0.350000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <0.410000,0.920000,-0.460000> - <0.200000,1.230000,-0.060000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-0.750000,-0.810000,1.360000> - <-0.880000,-1.260000,1.100000> - s [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: forgot how noisy it was [11:17] Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-2.010000,-0.140000,1.400000> - <-2.540000,-0.150000,1.300000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.640000,0.980000,0.680000> - <-1.900000,1.380000,0.440000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.430000,0.880000,-0.770000> - <-1.000000,0.790000,-1.320000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.430000,0.880000,-0.770000> - <-1.950000,0.900000,-0.930000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.430000,0.880000,-0.770000> - <-1.290000,1.340000,-0.520000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <-1.000000,0.790000,-1.320000> - <-1.140000,0.350000,-1.600000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.030000,-1.400000,0.160000> - <0.790000,-1.570000,-0.280000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.030000,-1.400000,0.160000> - <1.600000,-1.800000,0.280000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.030000,-1.400000,0.160000> - <0.690000,-1.440000,0.580000> - s [11:17]  Hiros Molecule Rezzer: rezzing bond: <1.600000,-1.800000,0.280000> - <1.840000,-1.660000,0.750000> - s [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: heh woops [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: forgot it was so noisy [11:17] Penny Lane: Nice molecule, not nice chat spammage. [11:17] Mojito Sorbet: Now, if they were colored, maybe we could tell what this was... [11:17] Hiro Protagonist: although I would like to have one [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:17] Adelle Fitzgerald: thats the development plan for OpenSim right? :P [11:17] Hiro Protagonist: and now I can haz one :D [11:18] Penny Lane: Needs colouring, or can't distinguish caffeine from LSD [11:18] Master Dubrovna: lol [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: lol [11:18] paulie Flomar: :) [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: there i set the box to copy [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: if anyone wants to grab it [11:18]  Mojito Sorbet: Looks like white ping pong balls to me [11:18]  Hiro Protagonist: nods I think it already was [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: its a Lactose Molecule [11:18]  Hiro Protagonist: at least, I was able to get a copy [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: actually [11:18]  Adelle Fitzgerald: that would make a nice space station if made to the size of a sim :) [11:18] Penny Lane: Thanks Neb, I'll have a play [11:18] Michael Skelito: molecule to create jiggly boobies [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: cool adella [11:19] Mojito Sorbet: Getting around in it would be rather difficult. "You are ion a maze of twisty passages..." [11:19] Michael Skelito: whats with standing t pose people? [11:19] paulie Flomar: "you are likely to be eaten by a Grue..." [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:19] Penny Lane: Adelle: cute idea, space stations built to represent a given molecule. Nice :-) [11:19] Mojito Sorbet: I had a poster of a grue somweher. [11:20]  Adelle Fitzgerald: my gut feeling about the T pose is that the animation isne being sent to the viewers fast enough [11:20]  Penny Lane checks for grues under the seat [11:20]  Michael Skelito: does yea ti look standing and in t pose? [11:20]  Mojito Sorbet: It is on the flag of the town of Gruyeres in Switzerland [11:20]  paulie Flomar: lolz [11:20]  Hiro Protagonist: yes, but she is the only one such [11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: anybody got any code issues with OpenSim, apart from the usual ones? [11:21]  Warin Cascabel: Doesn't look like the initial poses of people in the region are sent to a viewer as it logs in. I do see Yea- ti and Long John in T poses. [11:21]  Mojito Sorbet: Well, I am sort of under the impression that weak part of OpenSim is mono [11:21]  Hiro Protagonist: Justin: I'd love to see the maximum physical prims sizes respected as configured in the region ini [11:21] Adelle Fitzgerald: seems to get worse the more avatars are in the region too [11:21] Penny Lane: This region has never ran so slickly as today I think. It's storming. In fact I think it's much faster than SL. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: :) ya things are running great [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: though its leaking ram [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: were still trying to pinpoint exactly where and why [11:22]  Penny Lane: Want some chewing gum? [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:22]  Mojito Sorbet: Mono is leaking or OpenSIm is leaking? [11:22]  Hiro Protagonist: opensim [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: infact if this computer we are on was 32 bit [11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: ah, curious that there's a setting that isn't enforced. Sounds like a regression [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: this region would have crashed about 15 minutes ago [11:22]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i have to agree with speed compared to SL, but put 70,000 people in an opensim grid, and i think the tables would turn. its hard to say when there are only 60 people logged in at once [11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: mojito: Mono is a lot better now that we've hauled up to 2.4 [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: or sems to be, amyway [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: the only fact the region is still running is because its Linux x64 [11:23] Michael Skelito: you ever do the mono net test? [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how's opensim running under linux 64 bit. Any special issues? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: AdelleF i think suprisingly it would run better than SL [11:23]  Penny Lane: Adelle: but I very much doubt that OSgrid (or any open grid) is going to repeat SL's mistake of centralization. [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: because of the distributed nature of the grid [11:23] Mojito Sorbet: I would like to see JVM in that comparison [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: the entire grid is not on 50 racks [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: in 1 data center [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: Justin its running great [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: that's not the linden grid, is it? [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: CSJ2K sucks [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: cool [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt like x64 [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: so we get alot of decoding issues [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: that require multiple relogs sometimes [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: right [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: im on 32bit linux (2core vps) [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: good to expose the problem though [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: we are probably actually at a point [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: where mono and .net perform 1:1 [11:25] Mojito Sorbet: I tries libomv testclient on a PowerMac OSX. Dies horribly. [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good [11:25] Adelle Fitzgerald: i was under the assumption that LL had multiple asset and user server at various locations? [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: .net might have a slight advantage still [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: but not much [11:25] Mojito Sorbet: Yes, LL has multiple locations [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: in x64 mono is the clear leader [11:25] Penny Lane: Once Hurlican gets the new Cable Beach into Opensim, OSgrid will start to get more decentralized anyway, so I doubt it'll follow SL's spiral into death. [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya its like 2-3 data centers [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: for lindens [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: but still [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: they are limited to bandwidth [11:25] Adelle Fitzgerald: gotcha [11:25] Mojito Sorbet: How is Mono against JVM? I know you cant use the same code... [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Java? [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: OSGrid already runs on a fragstore Penny - it does not use the stock opensim asset server [11:26] Mojito Sorbet: Not Java, justr the JVM [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: try Sun Wonderland [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: its not very good [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: Grid servers at 2 sides of the earth will solve things to. but you get other problems back [11:26] Mojito Sorbet: \There is this seriously cool new language, that takes the best of C# and Erland, and runs on a JVM [11:26] Mojito Sorbet: *Erlang [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: Wonderland videos look quite good. They have a lot of good features and active forums. I can't work out why they've not got a higher profile, at least relative to opensim [11:26] Penny Lane: Hiro: is it fragged widely? [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt scale well Justincc [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: is my undestanding [11:27] Hiro Protagonist: no, but it can be [11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: looks good but has scaling issues [11:27] Penny Lane: LOL, Erlang isn't new. It's like 20 years old. But yes, people are only discovering it now. It's one of the best languages in existence. [11:27] Mojito Sorbet: Does it still tie compute resources to geography? [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i think Cobalt has similar issues with scaling [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: right. In terms of avatar numbers or just in terms of expanding the environment's area (equiv to new regions)? [11:27] Mojito Sorbet: Penny, take a look at Scala. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i think both [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its P2P [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: cobalt is such a different thing that I think it's difficult to make comparisons except at a very high level [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: theres no real grid structure [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: or distributed asset system [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you mean in wonderland? (which I understand is a centralized server system) [11:28] Penny Lane: I've played with Scala, it's not as good as Erlang except for people who can't cope with functional progreamming. [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its possible its changed, its been some time since i took a hard look [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i remember while back it was pretty incomplete [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: for the grid system [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey nods [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: they dont seem to move as fast as we did either [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: and who knows where sun is going [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: down the tubes it seems to me [11:29]  Penny Lane: Not even Sun knows :P [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, not sure what Oracle would do with that [11:29] Michael Skelito: can this grid be cut in half or is it a set size? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: what do you mean cut in 1/2? [11:30] Mojito Sorbet: I think Oracle is meeting with the EU this week [11:30] Michael Skelito: cut it in half with 2 grid servers [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: not currently no [11:30]  Michael Skelito: kk [11:30]  Marcus Llewellyn is Online [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but theres no real need to either [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the grid server is snoozing most of the day [11:30] Mojito Sorbet: I can not imagine Oracle being at all intewrested in Wonderland [11:30] Marcus Llewellyn is Offline [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it can handle quite a bit more than it is right now [11:30] Hiro Protagonist: there is no real 'grid server' in that sense [11:30] Michael Skelito: nice [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/stats [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: mojito: yeah that's what I suspect [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: split grid server. for osgrid overkill atm [11:31] Michael Skelito: hows the load tests going? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i bet oracle is interested in Selling Wonderland off to the highest bidder [11:31] Warin Cascabel: What happens every day at 6AM, Nebadon? Backups? [11:32] Mojito Sorbet: It is Open Source - nothing to sell [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its likely a Cron task [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: which one im not sure [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: id have to look [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: mojito: don't they require contributor agreements, in theory leaving the way open to reselling under a different license? (unlikely as that may be) [11:32] Warin Cascabel: Just idle curiosity, no need. [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if its regularlly every 24 hours i suspect its one of the cron tasks [11:32] Penny Lane: That's when Neb gets up and switches on his coffee machine. [11:32] Mojito Sorbet: Have not looked. [11:32] Warin Cascabel: Heh, Penny [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:33] Primitive: server_startup,1,0, [11:33] Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:33] Friendly Harbour: lol [11:33] Mojito Sorbet: Licenses can be changed. The OGRE engine changed their licence terms [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: last nights backup of assets shows we are up to 170gb on the asset server [11:33] Michael Skelito: is that good? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: actually ya [11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: its good [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: much lower than our projections [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: and how much is waste of the 170GB ? [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: not much [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: ok, wow [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 1-3% tops [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:34]  Michael Skelito: Hi Dahlia [11:34]  Friendly Harbour: hi dahlia [11:34]  Penny Lane: The real question is, where the hell are the assets? There's so little available here. [11:34]  Adelle Fitzgerald: hi Dahlia [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: the grid is huge [11:34]  Penny Lane: Hiya Dahlia :-) [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: hey dahlia [11:35] Hiro Protagonist: Hey Dahlia :D [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: nice molecule [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I think we are actually larger or as large as the linden grid was when it was this age [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of regions [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: not users [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: hmm did not payed atention on the amount of regions atm [11:35] OtakuMegane Desu: Well, it'll grow past that number without much problem thanks to the flexibility in how many regions you can set up [11:35]  Mojito Sorbet: Any universities here yet? [11:35] Hiro Protagonist: content is more widely distributed here because we are not constrained by artificial means to cram prims into a small spase [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: *space [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes Mojito [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: University fo California [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: is right next door to this region [11:36] Mojito Sorbet: I would think OpenSIm would be very attractive to them, after they recover from SLE sticker shock [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: UCI for one [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: Diva is a Associate Professor there [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: on of the OS Developers [11:36] Penny Lane: How about someone creating a Grid Nexus, some kind of tiered semi-centralized portal to a load of interesting places ... I want to shop! But so few places are known. [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody come into contact yet with second life enterprise? [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: is there still something on the list with region locks ? [11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. Things are more spread out. There is also the benefit of being able to build on large scales though which may fill in some of the gaps eventually [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i have not Justin, are they even open to the world? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: or is that walled off mini gardens? [11:37] Mojito Sorbet: And also throwing hardware at a sim you want to really perform well. [11:37] Penny Lane: JCC: contact with SLE requires US$55k :-) [11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I believe they are walled off. [11:37]  Mojito Sorbet: None of this "one core and 2 gigs" limit [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: its more than 55k [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: 55k doesnt include monthly charges [11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: penny: yeah - I should ask the IBMers :) [11:37] Penny Lane: Hehe [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: it looked extremely expensive to me [11:38]  Mojito Sorbet: LL wants to make money off the service contract [11:38] Penny Lane: Anyway, academic for community worlds [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I imagine 55k + charges is a big commitment, though I'm probably just not thinking in terms of fortune 500 expenditure [11:38] Hiro Protagonist: Mojito: we've found that 1 core of a 2.5GHz Kennsington and 1GB of Ram is tough to use up on a standard 65535m^2 region [11:39] Mojito Sorbet: Yes, but with how many avatars? [11:39] Adelle Fitzgerald: i think the price of SLE is unrealistic [11:39] Wazer Windang is Online [11:39] Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:39] Adelle Fitzgerald: spend $55k on opensim instead :) [11:39]  Warin Cascabel: LOL [11:39]  Hiro Protagonist: we have had 85 for over an hour on simpilar resources [11:39]  Mojito Sorbet: How big is a physical SLE box? I would not think more than a half-rack [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: 1gb ram isnt going to accomidate many users [11:39]  Hiro Protagonist: (actually somewhat less resources) [11:39]  OtakuMegane Desu: Aatars have become the resource-eater for opensim now. Prims don't do near as much damage as they used to. [11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm imagining that LL needs to shoot for the big money in order to try and maintain any kind of growth [11:39]  Adelle Fitzgerald: that would buy you one full time paid dev to shout at :P [11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: hope avatyars get less memeory hungry [11:40]  Dahlia Trimble: Bah crashed :/ [11:40]  Mojito Sorbet: Yeah, but LL is forgetting something about big corporations. They will never acheive wide penetration for meeting purposes. Corporate desktop are not up to it. [11:40] Penny Lane: Dahlia: try Imprudence 1.2.1 :-) [11:40]  OtakuMegane Desu: They'll improve. They already have improved a lot from a few months ago. [11:40]  Hiro Protagonist: they are less resource hungry than they were a year ago by a factor of ten [11:40]  Mojito Sorbet: But for specialized users, it would be attracticve [11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not personally very convinced about the meeting use case. Conferences maybe [11:40]  Penny Lane: Hiya Tera [11:40]  Hiro Protagonist: 20 avatars on a well-built region in one gig is not an unreasonable expectation [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: depends i guess on travel [11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: Hi teravus [11:41]  Dahlia Trimble: imprudence wont work for me on linux 64 or vista either :( [11:41] Teravus Ousley: hello [11:41] Mojito Sorbet: Where there is something that the 3D-ness actually benefits from [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: hi Ter [11:41] Hiro Protagonist: Hello Ter [11:41] Adelle Fitzgerald: hi Teravus [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I suspect corporate desktops would struggle with immersion, which is a big thing for me [11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: I struggle at the moment - need to upgrade every bit of hardware I have :) [11:41]  Michael Skelito: Thanks for fixing svn Teravus [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: ya most corporate machines dont have good 3D [11:41]  Mojito Sorbet: Generally we get cheap Dell boxes, delivered by the pallet-load [11:41]  Penny Lane: I'm not interested in SLE. I want to know what's next for Opensim [11:41]  Teravus Ousley: np :) [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: epsecially corporate style laptops [11:41] Hiro Protagonist: not everything happens on a fortune-500 desktop ;) [11:42]  OtakuMegane Desu: And unfortunately the current viewers are inefficient as hell about using the hardware [11:42]  Dahlia Trimble: SLE is probably priced high enough to make sure people using it cant compete with the LL service [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: ya seems like a bad move to stiffle customers [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: to stay alive [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:42]  Michael Skelito: does the viewer load the whole region when you log in? [11:42]  Mojito Sorbet: There is hope for that in the next vbiewer (after 2.0). The plan is to modularize everying. So you could even shut off the rendering if you did not need it, or freeze it [11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: I hadn't thought about that - someone using SLE to set up their own competing grid... :) [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: seems like recipe for failure [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, that would be a bit, unlikely [11:43] Penny Lane: Depends if they've DRM'd it. In principle you could clone whatever LL sold them to huge grid size. [11:43] Mojito Sorbet: That depends how scalable it is [11:43]  Dahlia Trimble: probably not licensed for that [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: SLE does that provide you your own user / grid /asset servers also? [11:44] Mojito Sorbet: You can not just hook SLE boxes together and scale up to SL size. [11:44] Penny Lane: Well SL isn't scalable, so I guess SLE isn't either ^_^ [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: or is it just extended off the main grid services? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but walled off? [11:44] Teravus Ousley: I think in the documentation it says 4 regions per instance.. with unlimited disabled region definitions. [11:44] Mojito Sorbet: You need all the replicated asset server copies set up, etc [11:44] Teravus Ousley: but it might be 6 regions per instance. [11:44] Friendly Harbour: using SLE to compete with SL is probably more a legal/license issue than a techical one [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i thought you got 8 instances [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: hmm thought I remember seeing 9 [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: lolz [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya its 8 or 9 [11:44] Penny Lane: Let's talk about Opensim, not SLE [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i think [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: 9 would be a square [11:44] Teravus Ousley: mind you, I was looking at screen shots [11:45] Michael Skelito: ahhh my connection doesnt like Wright plaza 80- 400 ping [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: Hey, Teravus, I need to ask a favor of you [11:45] Penny Lane: Michael: nothing wrong with 80ms [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: where is WP hosted now, geographically? [11:45] Michael Skelito: 400 is bad tho [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: alright, but what part of OpenSim? [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Houston Texas [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: throws SLE in the toilet. [11:45] Friendly Harbour: my ping is 150-250 [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: 174msec here now [11:45] Hiro Protagonist: actually, it's hosted in Dallas Neb [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: ah sorry [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: mines 60-80 [11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: My ping tends to change depending on camera placement and draw distance [11:46] Michael Skelito: mostly 80 so thats good [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: mine is 231 from the uk [11:46]  Friendly Harbour: i'm in europe so the packets have long way to go [11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe, i need to travel a few 1000miles first [11:46] Adelle Fitzgerald: im getting about 230 too [11:46] Friendly Harbour: from the USA [11:46] Hiro Protagonist: Teravus, I was wondering if you might have a look at implementing the physical prim limit sizes that may be specified in region.ini? [11:46] Penny Lane: JCC: anything :-) What's the future, tell us plebs who don't sit on IRC :-) [11:46] OtakuMegane Desu: Right now it's low-200s at best though [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: ha ha, I don't sit on irc much myself either :) [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: http://plaza02.osgrid.org/munin/osgrid.org/plaza02.osgrid.org-if_eth1.html [11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: how good are megaregions this days ? [11:46]  Teravus Ousley: hmm, I thought melanie did that previously. [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: here is the network stats for this region [11:47]  Richardus Raymaker: any changes since last post on webpage [11:47]  Hiro Protagonist: there are defaults in the examples, but increasing them has no effect [11:47]  Hiro Protagonist: I would like to push ODE around a bit wrt to prim sizes in vehicles [11:47]  Hiro Protagonist: I am already pushing the limits with prim counts in vehicles, which are surprisingly high [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: i hope that once we have ODE 11.x vehicles get better too [11:48]  OtakuMegane Desu: Lol. Moar than 32? :) [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: is there a limit for prim counts in vehicles? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: once we can run in x64 more happily [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: Adelle and I both have, in fact - both of us have working vehicles with prim counts in excess of 300 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no Dahlia [11:48] Teravus Ousley: not explicitly [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: it seems we have no prim limit [11:48] Penny Lane: Otaku: that's LL's daft doing networking in the render loop --- your ping time is going to be dependent on render FPS. They've known it's crap for years, but don't dare touch the code. [11:48] Teravus Ousley: the viewer has it's own limit when you set the physical flag.. but OpenSim doesn't have an explit limit. [11:48] Mojito Sorbet: So that limit in SL is artificial? [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: maybe we should add one :) [11:48]  Dahlia Trimble ducks... [11:48]  Teravus Ousley: it's not artificial.. [11:48]  Michael Skelito: SL set it for a reason [11:49]  Teravus Ousley: For their purposes, it's what they need. [11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, there's no prim limit in opensim yet, though it would be useful to have a configurable one [11:49]  OtakuMegane Desu: 32 prims is pretty low for building vehicles beyond basic cars. [11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: i hope 64bit viewer are born soon [11:49]  Hiro Protagonist: Teravus, how about when scripts set prims physical? [11:49]  Mojito Sorbet: Like the group limit. I expect that has something to do with the number of columns in a DB table somewhere [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: the other day we had 3 - 158 prim cars driving around my sim [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: with almost no impact on the CPU [11:49]  Teravus Ousley: That's how you're currently getting around the viewer limit. [11:49] Hiro Protagonist: I can instantly break any of my vehicles by linking in a prim that exceeds 10m in length [11:49] Teravus Ousley: .. by setting it physical via script. [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: where are verhicle scripts demo's ? on the forum ? [11:50] OtakuMegane Desu: Lol database columns [11:50] Mojito Sorbet: Generally, the "Vehicle" LSL functions conflict with physciallness [11:50] Hiro Protagonist: that's just it - I'm not getting vehicles to work with any prims larger than 10m [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: I imagine higher prim counts in vehicles would have rezzing issues for people watching fast moving vehicles go by [11:50]  Dahlia Trimble: sculpties too [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya i had same problem [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: mega prims seem to make your car a brick [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i had one tiny sculpty [11:50] Mojito Sorbet: Well, with full meshes you do not need all those prims [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: that i had to strech to 20m [11:50] Hiro Protagonist: the problem ism sculpts yes [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: to make it look 1m [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: the car became a brick [11:51] Mojito Sorbet: COuld have a 3-prim vehicle. (I allow two for doors) [11:51] OtakuMegane Desu: Well yeah if you're using a bunch of sculpties or 300-prim vehicles lol [11:51] Penny Lane: That makes no sense, surely. LL coded those 10m limit in server side. Opensim would only be failing on 10m limit if it had done likewise. [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: who needs doors with sit targets :) [11:51]  Teravus Ousley: I don't really know where melanie set that limitation, but I'll look into it when I have time. [11:51]  Hiro Protagonist: 300 prim vehicles work great as long as they incorporate no prims exceeding ten meters in either dimension [11:51]  Richardus Raymaker: do you not talk about wrong set RenderLODvolume in viewer ? [11:52]  Penny Lane: Somebody grep for "10" literals in the code :P [11:52]  Mojito Sorbet: I know a guy who had this huge spacship in SL. It floew and everything. Filled a sim from edge to edge. But when it moved, it sort of dissaembled and reassembled itself, as all the chunks tried to stay next to each other [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: Mojito [11:52]  Dahlia Trimble: if you have a group of people watching fast moving vehicles go by, 300 prims are 300 updates the sim needs to send to each of them, so somebody is not going to see them all [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: he was probably wearing it [11:52]  OtakuMegane Desu: Nonphys vehicle [11:52] Hiro Protagonist: SHe rattled it off to me the other day, said it was in two places - had I been only slightly more familiar with what she was talking about, I might have taken a run at it myself [11:52] Mojito Sorbet: No, he was not wearing it [11:52]  Teravus Ousley: I think we might be better off setting a constant mass for objects larger then 10m then completely disabling them.. since Mass is what was breaking it previously.. [11:52] Mojito Sorbet: I walked around in it [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: but ya [11:52]  Mojito Sorbet: It was over 3000 prims [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: you can do no physical vehicles [11:53] Teravus Ousley: but yeah, I can look into it. [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: honeslty id be suprised if 3000 prims can move in SL [11:53]  OtakuMegane Desu: There's tons of ships in SL like that. They're nonphys and use scripts to move prims around [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: under any circumstance [11:53] Hiro Protagonist: Ter +1 [11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: They're all but useless except to show off though [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: SL has 255 prim linkset limits [11:53] Mojito Sorbet: Yes, that was it. It was more just to look at and RP in. But it COULD move. Just not well at all [11:53] OtakuMegane Desu: SL has prim linking distance limits too. A very, very annoying thing. :P [11:54] Penny Lane: So what's the way to do vehicles properly, leaving LL's non-working approach behind? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya linking stuff in SL is a pain [11:54] Hiro Protagonist: just leave it behind [11:54] Mojito Sorbet: I think each compartment in the ship was a linkset. [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: sepcially if you have cut megas [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: yes otak 20 ort 30 meters max [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: they can really screw up linking in SL [11:54]  Friendly Harbour: it's one thing to have set limit for linksets or physical vehicles, but to get any kind of performance with large builds will be difficult even without these limits in OS [11:54]  OtakuMegane Desu: Actually it depends on prim size now [11:55] Mojito Sorbet: With meshes, the need for linking prims goies way down. Probably an order of magnitude [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: You can link huge megas fine but if yopu use .1m prims you can barely link a meter away [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: meshes are often composite also [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: IThey have all the formulas posted somewhere [11:55] Mojito Sorbet: The max-link-distance formula has a bunch of inputs. Size of the existing prims is one. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: depends on the quality of mesh they allow too [11:55] Penny Lane: LL's concept of prims flying in formation was pretty daft anyway. That's just a guaranteed failure at speed. [11:56] Warin Cascabel: And whether or not they actually mesh the mesh (physics-wise). [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think you will be able to just import any old mesh into SL [11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: there are going to be some hard limits [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: that probably make it not much better than Sculpty [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats my guess [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: just better tools [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, whats old mesh ? [11:56] Michael Skelito: when you going to go for 100 peeps? [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm gueissing it'll be easier to create meshses with external programs and port in some existing models (?) [11:57] Penny Lane: Neb: yes, that's pretty much what Qarl said. In fact the technology is probably identical to sculpties, just a different algorithm applied to what was the sculptmap. [11:57] Adelle Fitzgerald: is it possible to have a mixture of phantom and physical prims in a linkset? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: no Adelle [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: yes! [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: he he [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: really? [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: it is now :) [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: how? [11:58]  OtakuMegane Desu: Hell yeah [11:58]  Warin Cascabel: Not in SL, but here it is possible. [11:58]  Hiro Protagonist: hahaha, go Dahlia [11:58]  Dahlia Trimble: set them phantom [11:58]  Mojito Sorbet: If you make one prim phantom, they all go phantom [11:58]  Warin Cascabel: Heh [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:58]  Dahlia Trimble: no [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: i dunno about that [11:58]  Hiro Protagonist: not here ;) [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: they are individual [11:58] Michael Skelito: try it Neb [11:58] Michael Skelito: lol [11:58] Adelle Fitzgerald: could i use a script to set ALL_OTHERS phantom, and keep the root physical? [11:58] Mojito Sorbet: I was speaking of SL [11:59]  Dahlia Trimble: oh sl? make it flexible and stiff [11:59] Adelle Fitzgerald: no, here in OS [11:59]  Mojito Sorbet: Is the same true of LLVolumeDetect? That makes aprim phantom in SL [11:59] Dahlia Trimble: set the individual prim phantom [11:59] Warin Cascabel: It's not quite phantom, Mojito. [11:59] Warin Cascabel: It's a special case. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: it wont let me set them phantom [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: the child prims [11:59] Dahlia Trimble: try it before linking [11:59] Warin Cascabel: It knows you're onto it, Nebadon. :P [11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: Lol [11:59] OtakuMegane Desu: Prims are crafty that way... [11:59] Wazer Windang is Offline [12:00] Friendly Harbour: lol [12:00] Penny Lane: Did you tick the "Enable Dahlia's hack" checkbox? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: interesting [12:00] Adelle Fitzgerald: im thinking of vehicles, if i could set 319 prims to phantom, and just the root to physical, that /should/ have a lighter load on the physics engine right? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i did not know we could do this [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: hack? [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: it's clean code :D [12:00] Penny Lane: j/k :-) [12:01]  OtakuMegane Desu: Adelle: That's an interesting idea. [12:01]  Mojito Sorbet: I have a sailboat whose hull is phantom. Maybe that is why. [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: ah [12:01]  Dahlia Trimble: I havent tested it with physical, but it should work [12:01]  Mojito Sorbet: When you anchor, it rezzes a platform underneath so you do not fall out the bottom [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: if you make the entire linkset phantom again it breaks the child prims [12:02]  OtakuMegane Desu: Still better than what SL gives up lol [12:02]  Dahlia Trimble: have to do it before linking [12:02]  OtakuMegane Desu: us* [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: i did [12:02]  Adelle Fitzgerald: thats why i was thinking of using a script to do it, Nebadon [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: then i made a copy of the linkseet [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: it didnt seem to preserve the data [12:02]  Fernando Oliveira is Online [12:02] Michael Skelito: thats mantised [12:02] Dahlia Trimble: I think the viewer tries to set them [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya copying them is bad [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: it broke both of em [12:02]  Penny Lane: Is there a reason why it shouldn't be doable after linking, setting phantom per prim? [12:02] Monerda Skute is Online [12:03] Dahlia Trimble: dunno [12:03] Hiro Protagonist: the viewer probably mangles it [12:03]  Hiro Protagonist: or enforces a particular behaviour [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: have fun with the linking folks, I need to be off [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: bye everybody [12:03] Dahlia Trimble: me too, bye all :) [12:03]  Richardus Raymaker: by jcc [12:03]  Hiro Protagonist: see ya Justin [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya justin [12:03]  Michael Skelito: byees [12:03]  paulie Flomar: cya, JCC. [12:03]  Penny Lane: We can hit the viewer with a cluebat. [12:03]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey is Offline [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: thats interesting though [12:04]  Michael Skelito: made it an hour whoohoo [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: i am going to experiment with vehicles [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: making mose of it phantom [12:04]  paulie Flomar: kewl [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: most* [12:04]  Teravus Ousley: How is memory? [12:04]  Teravus Ousley: meh, I note that this server hasn't been updated.. [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: 2.8gb Res [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: 3.5gb virt [12:04]  Andress Renall is Online [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: 948 on show stats [12:05]  Primitive: Script running [12:05] Teravus Ousley: stats says -251 frame time.. which means that this server hasn't been updated at least within 2 days :) [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: likely yes [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe more [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i can update after meeting though [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i really want to make a new OSG release too [12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: but the memory leaking concerns me [12:06]  Hiro Protagonist: hokay, time for me to git [12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: later Hiro [12:06]  Michael Skelito: Bye hiro [12:06]  Teravus Ousley hopes that the memory issues will dissapear after the animation update. [12:06]  paulie Flomar: cya, H! [12:06]  Richardus Raymaker: bye hiro [12:06]  Hiro Protagonist: Neb, if we can get someone to chase the memory leak, I'm up for load testing [12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: ok [12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll see what i can find [12:06]  Hiro Protagonist: kk [12:06]  Teravus Ousley: :) [12:06] Hiro Protagonist waves [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: ive been looking for days, not found much [12:06] Teravus Ousley: no worries. [12:07] Hiro Protagonist is Offline [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: i will test in a bit Teravus [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and let you know [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt take long to know if its leaking [12:07] Teravus Ousley nods [12:07] Teravus Ousley: on high trafficed regions.. it doesn't. [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: i can know within an hour or 2 at most [12:07] Teravus Ousley: cool :) [12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: but even Stats Plaa [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: Plaza* which is not visied alot [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: is leaking too [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: but its like 100+ dynamic texture panels [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: if that tells you anything [12:08]  Teravus Ousley: hmm.. you think it's related to the dynamic textures? [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: not exclusivley no [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: cause i turned it off here [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: and its still leaking [12:08]  Teravus Ousley: I thought it was avatar traffic based.. which means ScenePresence, LLUDP, etc. [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: its possible its both maybe [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: there may be more than 1 leak [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: 100 panels is exccessive [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: i highly doubt anyone else is using 100+ dynamic panels [12:09]  Teravus Ousley: heh [12:09]  Script saved with errors, check debug window! [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: it also is not as drastic there as here [12:09] Richardus Raymaker: not yet ^^ [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: so traffic is more a problem i suspect [12:09] Michael Skelito: need a leak detection software lol [12:09] Hiro Protagonist is Online [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i have seen this region in the past week using 7000mb on Virt [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: 4500 on Res [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: and 2000+ on show stats [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: running less than 24 hours [12:10] Teravus Ousley: yeah, unfortunately leaks keep appearing.. and it's usually something small and un-noticable causing the leak :) [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya atleast its not crashing the regions [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: but it is probably effecting performance [12:10]  Penny Lane: Any tools to help with leak detection? [12:10]  Michael Skelito: squirt some soapy water on the sim and look for bubbles [12:10]  Teravus Ousley: memory profilers help.. sometimes. [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing thats easy to use [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: and those dont tend to hold up well when you pile on a ton of avatars [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: usually ends bad [12:11]  Mojito Sorbet: Any tools built into mono? [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: nothign reliable [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: there are some tools [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: but the problem is OpenSIm becomes extremely unstable under profile [12:11]  Teravus Ousley: I'm not aware of any Mojito.. but that doesn't mean they don't exist. [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there are some [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: i forget how to use it now [12:11] Michael Skelito: whats valgrind? [12:11] Mojito Sorbet: Some IDE's have stuff like that. But I have not used them [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt anything graphical as i recall [12:12] Teravus Ousley: usually the profilers that I use have a conflict with Mono.Addins and none of the plugins load :) [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: the big problem is OpenSim doesnt run right [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: so the results are skewed [12:12]  Penny Lane: LL has just brought in tcmalloc to give them memory stats that they lacked. Aditi has 4 regions called something like TMallocSimN just for testing that. [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: i think under windows its much easier [12:13]  Mojito Sorbet: I remember once having a memeory leak in something. Had to write custom code to track it down. But that was back in the days when you managed your own heap [12:13]  Warin Cascabel: Managed your own heap, like a savage? The dickens you say! [12:13]  Teravus Ousley: the biggest thing with .NET is making sure that you release references so the garbage collector can collect. [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: dotTrace [12:14] Teravus Ousley: if there are references, the garbage collector won't collect. [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.jetbrains.com/profiler/index.html [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: we have used this in the past [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: under windows [12:14] Teravus Ousley: Yeah, it's a good tool. [12:14] Michael Skelito: any luck with it? [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: a bit [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: it requires big iron [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: we used a 16 core 15gb EC2 instance [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: and it ran really slow [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: but didnt crash [12:15] Teravus Ousley: I need to go, so take care :) [12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: later Tar [12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: talk in a bit [12:15]  Michael Skelito: byees [12:15]  Adelle Fitzgerald: bye Teravus [12:15]  Teravus Ousley: ty [12:15]  paulie Flomar: bye, ter. [12:15]  Warin Cascabel: Bye, Teravus [12:15]  Richardus Raymaker: bye ter [12:16]  Michael Skelito: made it an hour and I can move good meeting :) [12:16] Michael Skelito: byees all [12:16] Warin Cascabel: Bye, Michael [12:16] paulie Flomar: bye, Michael. [12:16] Adelle Fitzgerald: bye Mike [12:16] Michael Skelito is Offline [12:16] Friendly Harbour: bye everyone [12:17] Adelle Fitzgerald: bye Friendly [12:17] paulie Flomar: I'ma run, too. Good meeting, all. :) [12:17] Warin Cascabel: Bye, Friendly and paulie [12:17]  Penny Lane: Cyu paulie [12:17]  Penny Lane: Cyu Friendly [12:17]  Warin Cascabel: I suppose I should actually get back to work... later, all! [12:17]  Fernando Oliveira is Online [12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: k later Warin [12:17]  Adelle Fitzgerald: bye people that are leaving ;) [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: good meeting [12:17] Penny Lane: Ta'ra leavers :P [12:17] Adelle Fitzgerald: well, we lasted [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:18]  Penny Lane: Another meeting without a hiccup, wooho! [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: every week we dont crash is a good week [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:18] Adelle Fitzgerald: im kinda suprised tbh [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya glad the Molcule Rezzer didnt kill the sim [12:18] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe [12:18] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to take a little effort to actually crash a region now. [12:18] Warin Cascabel is Online [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya i was suprised the other night how well it held up with 3 158 prim vehicles zooming around [12:19] Adelle Fitzgerald: hmm, Warin left his avatar here hehe [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: if you hit turbo boost and crashed into each other [12:19] Adelle Fitzgerald: ahh there it goes [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: you flew up to 1000+m in sky [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: and fell back down [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: no crashes [12:19] Richardus Raymaker: must look funny [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya it was really fun actually [12:19] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. Any number of things may go screwy or lag if you stress it but the region just keeps going [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: we drove around for a few hours too [12:19] Adelle Fitzgerald: i had a good experience with my vehicle on your region, Neb [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: nice [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya that sim is running on my home server [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: under Windows 7 [12:20] Adelle Fitzgerald: your home? wow [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:20]  Adelle Fitzgerald: i thought it was a hosted server [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh no that region is not [12:20] Adelle Fitzgerald: it certainly felt like it [12:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i do get fast pipe out though [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: 2.5-5mbs upstream [12:20] Adelle Fitzgerald: cool [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: mbps [12:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Home can be good if you do it right. Unfortunately many people don't know how or lack the bandwidth [12:20] Richardus Raymaker: wow [12:21] Adelle Fitzgerald: i get about 2Mbps out [12:21] Adelle Fitzgerald: which is ok, for hosting 4 or 5 people [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: the highest i ever hit on speedtest.net was 4.8 [12:21] Penny Lane: What's a good place to get skins in OSgrid? Now that we're staying up, need to look better :-0 [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: i had 15 users on my sim once [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: running in a VM instance [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: under CentOS 5 [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: inside of Windows 7 [12:21] Adelle Fitzgerald: ive seen my bandwidth meter on my firewall burst to about 3.5Mbps with 5 avatars on it [12:22]  Nebadon Izumi: lasted a good hour+ [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: wow thats high [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: we didnt even hit that today [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: here at the meeting [12:22] Adelle Fitzgerald: i dont know if it is telling the truth though, or that my ISP traffic management cant keep up with the UDP streams [12:22] Penny Lane: Hehe [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: i have a good meter i use [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: NetMeter [12:23] Richardus Raymaker: i thinlk that the problem i have when i did have my cable isp (dumped it) something screwed very fast [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.metal-machine.de/readerror/ [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: works great