Chat log from the meeting on 2015-01-06

[2015/01/06 11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [2015/01/06 11:01] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Justin [2015/01/06 11:01] Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: hi Justin [2015/01/06 11:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves [2015/01/06 11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello all [2015/01/06 11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin, all [2015/01/06 11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: everybody has gone back to school :) [2015/01/06 11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: im starting to get sick blah.. sort throat, burning lungs [2015/01/06 11:05]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi :) [2015/01/06 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry to hear that [2015/01/06 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hi alicia [2015/01/06 11:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people have been sick all around here. I keep my fingers crossed [2015/01/06 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm still a little sick but coming out the other side [2015/01/06 11:05] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Drink lemon juice and honey Neb (warm) it will make you feel a little better [2015/01/06 11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: moonshine will make yuou feel a lot better :) [2015/01/06 11:06]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: true, until the next day! [2015/01/06 11:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haha [2015/01/06 11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Bluewall, but then you betetr dont stop useing it. or you feel worse [2015/01/06 11:07]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Andrew :) [2015/01/06 11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew [2015/01/06 11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: have a question as to whether this should be logged as an Opensim or viewer bug: on one grid I visit it seems any time I try to make a landmark it's storing it in IP form but then when I subsequently attempt to use it it fails....I have to make every time to their DDNS (even though the IP is static) [2015/01/06 11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hello, everyone [2015/01/06 11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Aine, maybe they use ip addresses in their confioguration? [2015/01/06 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: maybe you need to set the FQDN in the [Network] section? [2015/01/06 11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or is perhaps a grid configuration issue? [2015/01/06 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what all that effects [2015/01/06 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if its just scripting or what [2015/01/06 11:09] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: aine, we had that issue, their config has the ip address and landmarks dont work unless they change it to the domain [2015/01/06 11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I suppose anything that uses the host address - lots of Hg functions [2015/01/06 11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it only happens on Narasnook but that's run/hosted by the Zeta people so one would think it would be a more widespread issue [2015/01/06 11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies....ty Alicia, I'll let them know [2015/01/06 11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why does opensim not do nslookup if it find ip and use the domain name it get. if no doamin name generate error and stop ? [2015/01/06 11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: you can point 1000 names at an IP [2015/01/06 11:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how would we know which to use? [2015/01/06 11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it just seems strange that it fails since the IP stored for the LM is correct [2015/01/06 11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats not your problem. :) then the betetr put domain name in [2015/01/06 11:12] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: is it part of the spoofing security, the ip is rejected as it dosnt match the address expected [2015/01/06 11:13]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: still seems odd....if I do a maps search using their IP instead of DNS it works [2015/01/06 11:13]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so why wouldn't the LM? [2015/01/06 11:14]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: I've seen that comparision being made in console log [2015/01/06 11:14]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: http://ip.ad.re.ss:8002 != http://domain.name:8002 [2015/01/06 11:14]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah [2015/01/06 11:14]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: just odd that it isn't [2015/01/06 11:14]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sound like config error [2015/01/06 11:15]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe they use host names in region configs [2015/01/06 11:15] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: shouldn't really matter though, I guess. [2015/01/06 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: no idea....it's run by "Fred" who runs Zeta as well, I believe [2015/01/06 11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so one would think he has a reasonable idea of what he's doing [2015/01/06 11:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: some one was saying yesterday they couldn't teleport from my grid to naras, but other hg teleports worked ok, might be connected [2015/01/06 11:16] Simulator Version v0.5: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.Shared.ScriptException: OSSL Runtime Error: osGetSimulatorVersion permission denied. Allowed threat level is VeryLow but function threat level is High. [2015/01/06 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yep...that's the grid [2015/01/06 11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: tell Fred to try using his domain name. Maybe it will fix the issue. [2015/01/06 11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies, I'll pass the message on....ty [2015/01/06 11:16]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: No idea why it doesn't work, and there may be tons of things that could cause it. [2015/01/06 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I need to look at the existing bugs, I didn't do much over Christmas, tried to rest mainly [2015/01/06 11:20] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: RFC. Someone reported finding "DELETE /assets/131acf6b-c012-4846-8239-7f41bb21001b HTTP/1.1" 200 66 "-" "-" in the access log of a server, I reconstructed a similar request and found the opensim accepts the request but does nothing with it. [2015/01/06 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: hope folks did have a good new year [2015/01/06 11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ [2015/01/06 11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ++ [2015/01/06 11:21] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: The UUID has to be valid [2015/01/06 11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hard to say, just 6 days in the new year :) [2015/01/06 11:21]  Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: ++ too much beer ;) [2015/01/06 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: billy: yes, the stream handler is setup even though requests are ignored by default. Really, it probably shoudlnt' be set up at all [2015/01/06 11:22] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Just for the log here, can I say they have nothing to be concerned about, except of course someone being stupid? [2015/01/06 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: assets cant actually be deleted [2015/01/06 11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: assets won't be deleted unless you have set [AssetService] AllowRemoteDelete = true [2015/01/06 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: do you know where the requests are coming from? [2015/01/06 11:24] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Traced to somewhere in Japan [2015/01/06 11:24] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: heh, what's up with that? [2015/01/06 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: if it's definietley outside your network then someone is playing buggers... but then you shouldn't allow requests to the asset service private port anyway [2015/01/06 11:24] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: The log shows the IP [2015/01/06 11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: another one that I'm not sure if it's a viewer bug or Opensim bug....I was doing a little old school terraforming (actually using the bulldozer!) and for some bizarre reason to raise land I have to set the strength slider to at least ~15% yet for lowering at roughly the same rate I have to almost zero the slider....and "smooth" seems to be far more aggressive in its smoothing (even at close to zero strength) than used to be the case [2015/01/06 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: anything like that is simulator-side [2015/01/06 11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...I'll do some experimentation and wait a while.....don't want to give you yet another bug to add to the pile [2015/01/06 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: most of the code that generates terrain effects is ancient [2015/01/06 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think last person to work on that was Adam [2015/01/06 11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...and I don't recall any changes to it in the last year which is why I was a little surprised to see a different behaviour [2015/01/06 11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: teravus worked on it a little about a year ago [2015/01/06 11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: That explains maby why it's not optimized [2015/01/06 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: he worked on network side of it [2015/01/06 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: but i dont think he actually touched the tools themselves [2015/01/06 11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [2015/01/06 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: he implemented a throttle if i recall [2015/01/06 11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's why I was thinking it might be a viewer bug since I *have* recently done a FS update [2015/01/06 11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, wasn't there some work done in there a couple of months ago? [2015/01/06 11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some new tools? [2015/01/06 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall that but maybe [2015/01/06 11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there was a console command added [2015/01/06 11:28] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i know the behavior you mean, but i seem to remember its always been that way as far as i recall [2015/01/06 11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I remember someone talking about wanting to make some tools that produced sharper edges and shapes [2015/01/06 11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and I was thinking that some work did come if a little while after that/ [2015/01/06 11:29] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I may be mistaken though. would need to look at the commit logs [2015/01/06 11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think there was just the console command added but I wouldn't want to swear to it [2015/01/06 11:29]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it allows you re specify a rectangle to elevate/lower as a block [2015/01/06 11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that was probably what I was thinking about [2015/01/06 11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but you can select a area ion the viewer to and rais or lower or [2015/01/06 11:31]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 shrugs...now you can do it by precise amounts in console too if you want [2015/01/06 11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I would really, really love it if the whole issue of missing attachments could be addressed as something of a priority....it's getting extremely annnoying to have to Ruth myself when HGed just so some people aren't seeing me naked (or bodiless) wherever I go [2015/01/06 11:34]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there is something that seems to make a sim fail to send some things in higher traffic regions and when that happens it will *never* send it unless the person who can't see it logs out and back in again [2015/01/06 11:34] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: can happen with any asset, too, not just mesh [2015/01/06 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: can be a texture, a sculpt or a mesh but I haven't seen it happen with prim attachments [2015/01/06 11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so some sort of timing/race issue maybe? [2015/01/06 11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no idea, all grids have to be on master code, which means getting a release out [2015/01/06 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I notice it the most on Metro because thier asset server is utter garbage [2015/01/06 11:36] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (or perhaps that's unfair....it's old and under unusually high stress) [2015/01/06 11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Or the connection to it, depends where you live aine [2015/01/06 11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oddly it's Euros who seem most prone to not seeing parts of me and they don't have the entire Atlantic Ocean in the way [2015/01/06 11:38] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: But, why would your assets be on their server? Is that the destination? [2015/01/06 11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and it's all between the region/grid asset/and other user....my connection doesn't enter into it afaik [2015/01/06 11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: when you HG there your assets get sent [2015/01/06 11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: otherwise nobody would see you [2015/01/06 11:38] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: to the region [2015/01/06 11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Senmt from where ? USA ? [2015/01/06 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: yea its probably not the asset server [2015/01/06 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its the region [2015/01/06 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: unless they are using caps to redirect everything directly to asset server [2015/01/06 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: which would be unlikely [2015/01/06 11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the asset server seems to be involved since once I've worn something to one Metro region I can generally wear it when going to another region without the usual tp fail [2015/01/06 11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the region has an asset cache [2015/01/06 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: yes but [2015/01/06 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: even if the 2 regions are on different sims [2015/01/06 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: the only connection to assset server is between their regions and asset server [2015/01/06 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: your viewer never speaks directly to asset server [2015/01/06 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: it always proxies through the simulator [2015/01/06 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...but I can go to Close Encounter (hosted by Akira) and then go to Centerworld (not hosted by Akira) and it works fine [2015/01/06 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: the point is really if it was asset server it would be having same effect on local accounts [2015/01/06 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is likely latency betwen the simulator and viewer [2015/01/06 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: maybe high packet loss [2015/01/06 11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think close encounters is running ariba btw. (not sure) [2015/01/06 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say without looking at it through scope [2015/01/06 11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, they are, but I was picking 2 region names arbitrarily from a hat [2015/01/06 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: when you first teleport to a foreign simulator, the assets required for appearance are transferred [2015/01/06 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: after that,, they are present in the foreign asset service [2015/01/06 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I highly suspect its mush [2015/01/06 11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: TRy my region tehre next tim e aine :O thats running vanilla opensim [2015/01/06 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: mesh* [2015/01/06 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Aine have you tested with a avatar with no attachments [2015/01/06 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: vs avatar with just prim attachments [2015/01/06 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: vs Mesh avatar [2015/01/06 11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right...and that foreign asset service is grid level, correct? [2015/01/06 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect the mesh is what fails [2015/01/06 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: yes [2015/01/06 11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...so I was right [2015/01/06 11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mesh is failing more in opensim [2015/01/06 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: mesh and hypergrid are horrible right now [2015/01/06 11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup [2015/01/06 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: from my experience [2015/01/06 11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohhh, I didn't realize that Hg user's assets go to the assets server [2015/01/06 11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: mesh fails more often, sure, but I've seen textures fail and sculpties fail too [2015/01/06 11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and on top of all of that ATI's latest auto-installed driver has a rigged mesh bug [2015/01/06 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yes but if you could test making sure there is no mixing and matching [2015/01/06 11:43] Jak.Daniels @hg.osgrid.org: so the hg region propagates the assets to hg grid asset server too? [2015/01/06 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: like an avatar with no attachments, one with just prims, one with just sculpty, one with just mesh [2015/01/06 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: and see what kind of failure rates they each produce [2015/01/06 11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's not reliable [2015/01/06 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: jak: yes [2015/01/06 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya that to me screams latency or packet loss if its inconsistent [2015/01/06 11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only consistent things seems to be that the more avi in a region, the morelikely it is that something will fail [2015/01/06 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we probably have a timeout to short some where too [2015/01/06 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: none of this is valid unless the region in question is running recent opensim code [2015/01/06 11:45] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Justin, how long before they are snet up? [2015/01/06 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: there were a number of changes made to improve this for the conference [2015/01/06 11:45] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: *sent [2015/01/06 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea that is true Justin [2015/01/06 11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but are the in 0.8.03 ? [2015/01/06 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: no [2015/01/06 11:45]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it happen f***ing everywhere, including in RG regions which are all running 0.8.1 built Jan 1st [2015/01/06 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so [2015/01/06 11:46]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: stock code [2015/01/06 11:46] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: There's the problem why it maby dont work there [2015/01/06 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: nobody has reported it afaik [2015/01/06 11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Are they not cached at the region level for a time before being sent to the assets server? [2015/01/06 11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: blue: the code is at HGEntityTransferModule.HandleIncomingSceneObject [2015/01/06 11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok [2015/01/06 11:47]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've brought it up at the last 2-3 meetings at least as part of the HG issues that I initially logged in March 2013 -- almost 2 years ago [2015/01/06 11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hmmm, [2015/01/06 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I can say for certain that most of the HG issues i come accross involce mesh [2015/01/06 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: involve* [2015/01/06 11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: shall I close that Mantis and start a whole new identical one so it looks new? [2015/01/06 11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I can understand them going to the assets server if you expect them to travel about the other regions. [2015/01/06 11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: which mantis number? [2015/01/06 11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but seems that it would be good to just cache them [2015/01/06 11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: they are cached [2015/01/06 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: if all you do is just cache it, then how would people in neighbor sims see those assets? [2015/01/06 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: trhing to locate it....think it might have been on that Melanie helpfuly "closed" because it was related to someone else's report [2015/01/06 11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Well, that is a good point. [2015/01/06 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess I'll just make a new report for it because I can't locate the old one [2015/01/06 11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, look under your own reports. not in global [2015/01/06 11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you made the report [2015/01/06 11:51] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: But, actually the child agents in the sam sim should pick them from the regions asset cache? [2015/01/06 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2015/01/06 11:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: So, if we could know if they are about to jump to another region on the same grid, then we could push the assets to the asset server? [2015/01/06 11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm beginning to think it was sometihing I added to someone else's report since I'm not seeing it even in my closed ones [2015/01/06 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: how woul dyou know? [2015/01/06 11:53] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: so not only are all local assets stored till the end of time, but hg users assets are squirreled away in the bottomless pit also [2015/01/06 11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I guess by the destination [2015/01/06 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: again what about neihgbors though [2015/01/06 11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: child agents neb [2015/01/06 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya but how do they get the assets? [2015/01/06 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: when they choose it before they hit teleport? [2015/01/06 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: do they get them from asset server or from viewer? [2015/01/06 11:54] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the child agent gets it from the regions they are in. [2015/01/06 11:54] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Justin, I guess when they hit teleport. [2015/01/06 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right what im saying is, if say i teleport to wright plaza [2015/01/06 11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: **Just brainstorming a little**( [2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: my viewer sends wright plaza the required avatar assets [2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: does it also send them to the neighbors? [2015/01/06 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: yes [2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: or does the neighors request those assets from asset server [2015/01/06 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: but that's when we're doing the transfer anyway. YOu aren't gaining anything [2015/01/06 11:55]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, the neibours would be child agents on the wright plaza sim tho [2015/01/06 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Neb, avatars in surrounding sims have child agents in Wright Plaza [2015/01/06 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no [2015/01/06 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: oh i see ya [2015/01/06 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: They are the eys [2015/01/06 11:56] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok [2015/01/06 11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: i was thinking you mean my avatars child agents [2015/01/06 11:56] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I should look at the code before I think about it, haa [2015/01/06 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yeah, sorry :) I should try and remember other people haven't already looked through this stuff a lot [2015/01/06 11:57]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I was just thinking that there may be some optimization in there somewhere for bandwidth and storage space too. [2015/01/06 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: As alicia hints, I think atm the hg code stores transferred assets for all time. In theory they could be removed as they aren't the canonical copies [2015/01/06 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: but that's a storage optimization, not performance [2015/01/06 11:58]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ [2015/01/06 11:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: really, the imported assets should be so marked so that they could be removed at some later point [2015/01/06 11:59]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I tend to think Neb's guess is right: that there's a short-ish timer somewhere and if the asset hasn't been sent out to a specific viewer by then for whatever reason, it never gets sent to that viewer no matter what unless that person relogs.....it doesn't even get sent if the wearer relogs [2015/01/06 11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, I think that is a good idea [2015/01/06 11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't pay any attention to gueses in such a complex area. It's like looking at a car and trying to figure out why it doesn't go just from observing the effects [2015/01/06 11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: in fact, it's 10x worse [2015/01/06 11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++x50 [2015/01/06 12:00] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, In response to your earlier question, new years was ok. Nothing special at my end. Hope you enjoyed it and took some time off. [2015/01/06 12:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: s/question/comment/ [2015/01/06 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the biggest problem i have with HG and mesh [2015/01/06 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: is teleporting from Grid A to Grid B and the regions i am leaving from and going to have the same assets [2015/01/06 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: mesh is just another attachment, albeit a large one [2015/01/06 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: many times i end up landing to 1000 yellow pyramids [2015/01/06 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: instead of mesh [2015/01/06 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: then i log out and back in and the departure grid also has yellow pyramids now [2015/01/06 12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i have to clear cache and do it again, usaully second time its ok [2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall it ever happening right after a cache clear the first time [2015/01/06 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: clear cache on viewer? [2015/01/06 12:05] Nebadon Izumi: yes [2015/01/06 12:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: thats complete weird [2015/01/06 12:05] Nebadon Izumi: happens a lot for me [2015/01/06 12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i tend to make big asset oars [2015/01/06 12:05] Nebadon Izumi: so i can move my stuff between grids [2015/01/06 12:06] Nebadon Izumi: very problematic and time wasting [2015/01/06 12:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I used to see those for the chairs in the Keynote regions when I would go there in Singularity [2015/01/06 12:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: That was really odd [2015/01/06 12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i really have a feeling that somewhere in HG mesh asset requests maybe take to long [2015/01/06 12:06] Nebadon Izumi: and it confuses the viewer or something [2015/01/06 12:06] Nebadon Izumi: then eventually times out and you never get the assets, and if you already have them, they get corrupted [2015/01/06 12:07] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: ouch [2015/01/06 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its never happened on local teleport [2015/01/06 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: always HG 100% [2015/01/06 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: and like i said [2015/01/06 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: usually the departure and arrival sims have nearly identical assets [2015/01/06 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall it only happening with a small number of items [2015/01/06 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: like my big tree OAR [2015/01/06 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats a great example [2015/01/06 12:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have seen those, then they finally rez into the object. [2015/01/06 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/oars/topiary_2013-01-30.oar [2015/01/06 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: my mesh trees get it a lot [2015/01/06 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: because i have those all over the place too [2015/01/06 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: so this happens when assets are in both places already? [2015/01/06 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: seems so [2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: when i notice it most [2015/01/06 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i will be in a region on say Avacon grid [2015/01/06 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i make an oar of it [2015/01/06 12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: load it into the other grid [2015/01/06 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: then teleport over and boom, cache corrupted [2015/01/06 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: but i clear cache and start over its fine [2015/01/06 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: but ive seen it happen later too [2015/01/06 12:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how soon after loading the oar? [2015/01/06 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: like weeks after the oars are loaded too [2015/01/06 12:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok [2015/01/06 12:11]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: viewers save the cache for different grids to the same place, could that cause problems there? [2015/01/06 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: but it doesnt always happen [2015/01/06 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: so i cant say its 100% going to fail always for you in testing [2015/01/06 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, this sounds like a viewer issue [2015/01/06 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe [2015/01/06 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: if assets are in both places already [2015/01/06 12:12] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i notice that some times textures show up in my grid that i know are not loaded, the model is but the textures are not and the only place the model and textures are loaded to the grid is SL so i know the viewer is sharing the cache [2015/01/06 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya [2015/01/06 12:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: that seems a bit unlikely since the asset ids will be different [2015/01/06 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: it deifnitely shares cache [2015/01/06 12:13] Nebadon Izumi: default assets may have same uuids [2015/01/06 12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm assuming we are not talking default assets [2015/01/06 12:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: are the asset ids always different? if thats true how come the viewer uses the cached texture from another grid on mine? [2015/01/06 12:14] Nebadon Izumi: I think it depends on how assets are transfered [2015/01/06 12:14] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: havnt tested with oars but xml uploads do that [2015/01/06 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: they won't be different if stuff is transferred via OARs. But that's not possible out of SL, of course [2015/01/06 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: unless there was some copybot that got them directly and then constructed an OAR with those same asset UUIDs, which isn't impossible I suppose [2015/01/06 12:14] Nebadon Izumi: i wonder how second inventory handles it [2015/01/06 12:15]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there's a ton of hacked content coming in from SL (or valid content being brought in by their original creators via XML [2015/01/06 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: I believe SI works through the client interaces, where you couldn't force a given UUID [2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: if i recall [2015/01/06 12:15]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: not oars here. upload an xml saved from SL with NO textures uploaded, the texture will still show from the cache untill u clear it, then it appears white [2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: second inventory will allow you to change a uuid [2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: but i cant remember now [2015/01/06 12:15]  Nebadon Izumi: been a long time since i used it [2015/01/06 12:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: alicia: yes, because it's saved from sl but not inserted into opensim [2015/01/06 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: i dont even have it installed anymore [2015/01/06 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: computer that had it is dead now [2015/01/06 12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: there's no way to specify a UUID on upload, afair [2015/01/06 12:16] Nebadon Izumi: i remember it had options [2015/01/06 12:16] Simulator Version v0.5: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> OpenSim.Region.ScriptEngine.Shared.ScriptException: OSSL Runtime Error: osGetSimulatorVersion permission denied. Allowed threat level is VeryLow but function threat level is High. [2015/01/06 12:16] Nebadon Izumi: to swap uuids [2015/01/06 12:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: You can still download it from the website nebadon. i think [2015/01/06 12:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tif you know the login [2015/01/06 12:16] Nebadon Izumi: it was deep in the advances menus though [2015/01/06 12:16] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt super obvious [2015/01/06 12:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I have SI but it is on my main machine that is currently dead. [2015/01/06 12:17] Nebadon Izumi: it allowed you to change uuids on objects that couldnt be retrieved [2015/01/06 12:17] Nebadon Izumi: to say a texture that did get retrieved [2015/01/06 12:17] Justin Clark-Casey: that's different from upload assets with given uuids [2015/01/06 12:17] Nebadon Izumi: k [2015/01/06 12:17]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think SI is poretty obsolete. dont think it works good in SL to this days. cannot remember when i have used it [2015/01/06 12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya its nearly impossible to export anything from SL [2015/01/06 12:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I need to go and do various stuff [2015/01/06 12:17] Justin Clark-Casey: bye for now, folks [2015/01/06 12:17] Nebadon Izumi: unless you created 100% of everything yourself [2015/01/06 12:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I haven't used SI in a couple of years but it would be useful to copy files between OS grids. [2015/01/06 12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye justin. [2015/01/06 12:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Bye, Justin. [2015/01/06 12:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: c ya justin [2015/01/06 12:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I'm also going to head out. [2015/01/06 12:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: By, thanks for the asset info [2015/01/06 12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Justin