Chat log from the meeting on 2009-06-02

Visitor List: Penny Lane Richardus Raymaker Starky Rubble tx Oh M1sha Dallin Jamenai Luik paulie Flomar Ideia Boa BlueWall Slade Mystical Demina Charles Krinke Brent Seidel Kitto Flora Justin Clark-Casey nabiki landar Bri Hasp Aaron.Duffy @island.sciencesim.com:8002 Sean Dague Jenniver Quandry Random Walker Userg Kohime Dahlia Trimble Romulun Rockett Formica Multiuso Arthur Valadares Lisp Hax Orion Hax Fredo Chaplin Michela Allegria Jasper Boram Vanessa Wunderlich Total = 31 [09:52] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:52] Connected [09:52] BlueWall Slade is Online [09:52] Penny Lane: Hi tx :-) [09:53]  tx Oh: huhu [09:53]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [09:53]  Richardus Raymaker: hello neb [09:53]  tx Oh: hello [09:54]  Starky Rubble: howdy [09:54]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:54]  Connected [09:54]  Starky Rubble: I was trying to figure out modrex installation [09:54]  Nebadon Izumi: any luck? [09:54]  Starky Rubble: not yet lol [09:54]  Nebadon Izumi: say list [09:54]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm [09:55]  Nebadon Izumi: say list [09:55]  Nebadon Izumi: help [09:55]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Script running [09:55]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List Maker started... [09:55]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: The owner can say 'help' for instructions. [09:55]  Nebadon Izumi: say listy [09:55]  Nebadon Izumi: say list [09:55]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [09:55]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Penny Lane [09:55]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Starky Rubble [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: tx Oh [09:55]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: M1sha Dallin [09:55] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 5 [09:55] Richardus Raymaker: i have lag here [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: not to bad for me at the moment [09:55] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:55] Connected [09:55] tx Oh: i've heared you just copy the modrex dll into the bin dir [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: let me check the stats [09:56] Richardus Raymaker: last week where betetr [09:56] BlueWall Slade is Offline [09:56] Starky Rubble: well evidently theres a bit more - RexODE physics, etc [09:56] Starky Rubble: UDP ports... [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: hi starky [09:57] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:57] Connected [09:57] BlueWall Slade is Online [09:57] Starky Rubble: the examples are confusing and/or cryptic [09:57] Penny Lane waves at all recent arrivals [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: hi penny [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not really sure rexmod works in grid mode [09:57] Nebadon Izumi: i think its standalone onlyu [09:57] M1sha Dallin waves back [09:57] Ideia Boa: hey all [09:57] Starky Rubble: Hey Richardus (you're all black) [09:57] Michelle Argus is Online [09:57] Richardus Raymaker: not again.. [09:58] Starky Rubble: hee [09:58] Richardus Raymaker: i can rename myself nbetter to MIB [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: everyone looks like a rebake might be in order [09:58] Charles Krinke is Online [09:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [09:58]  paulie Flomar: Howdeh, all. [09:58] Connected [09:59] Starky Rubble: howdy [09:59] Penny Lane: There's definitely a difference in body texture update behaviour between SL and Opensim now. But since it's all changing shortly in 1.23 anyway, might as well not fix it yet. [09:59] Richardus Raymaker: so because 1.23 we have the problems ? [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: strange the wright plaza stats panel is not displaying for me [10:00]  Nebadon Izumi: there a reset of the scripts fixed it [10:00]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:00] Connected [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: works fine for me [10:00]  Charles Krinke: Mornine [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: morning [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: morning [10:00] Charles Krinke: er, morning [10:00] Penny Lane: Hi Charles [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: im hoping Sean comes today [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: let me remind him [10:00] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, ck. [10:01] Kitto Flora: Hello all [10:01] Penny Lane: Hiya Kitto [10:01] Starky Rubble: hello [10:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi kitto [10:01] Connected [10:02] Bri Hasp is Online [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [10:02] Brent Seidel: Greetings all [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: Hello Nebadon [10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hello all [10:03] tx Oh: hello, hello [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: ok Sean said he would stop by in a bit [10:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:03] Connected [10:03] Penny Lane: Hiya JCC [10:03] Richardus Raymaker: hello justin [10:03] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to start things off charles i think we can get going [10:04] Charles Krinke: Ok, normal first order of business. Is there a recommendation to update the "recommended" version? [10:04] Neas Bade is Online [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i think im going to have to rely on others this week [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i have not gotten to do much opensim testing this week [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: ive been working on the website mostly [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: battleing forum bots [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:04] Connected [10:05] Charles Krinke: Opinions of others? Personally, I am running r9744 on my regions and they are running. [10:05] Richardus Raymaker: im stuck at 9725, wait how newers are [10:05] Starky Rubble: I to am on 744 with no trubbles [10:05] Starky Rubble: too* [10:05] Bri Hasp: 744 is ok on Grid [10:05] BlueWall Slade: I'm on 9755 [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: sim feels good [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: whatever rev this is [10:05]  tx Oh: i can't suggest any new [10:05] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.5 (Dev)        .9740  (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True [10:06] BlueWall Slade: this is 9740 [10:06] Starky Rubble: but i am not sure there is much reason to change the recommended... [10:06]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:06] Connected [10:06] Jamenai Luik: mhh have to update ^^i'm 968* [10:06] Starky Rubble: this week [10:06] Jamenai Luik: + on [10:06]  Charles Krinke: I was out last week. What is the current "recommended" ?? [10:07] Richardus Raymaker: i have the feelking 9700 is not perfect [10:07] Bri Hasp: 700 [10:07] Starky Rubble: 9700 [10:07] Charles Krinke: I have seen a number of negative comments on r9700 on IRC in the last few days. [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya i doubt any are even close to perfect [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:07] Bri Hasp: true [10:07] Starky Rubble: well it was a hard week [10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: Hey Sean [10:07] Charles Krinke: We could consider 9740 (this region), 9644, 9755 or leave at 9700 [10:07] Bri Hasp: is turbulent times [10:08] Charles Krinke: er 9744, not 9644 [10:08] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:08] Connected [10:08] Sean Dague: Hey Charles [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [10:08] Charles Krinke: Can I suggest 9740 which is this region is usually a pretty good "recommended" if the region runs at all. [10:08] paulie Flomar: I've been running 9740. Seems to work fine for me. [10:08] Michelle Argus is Online [10:08] Sean Dague: Hey Justin [10:08] Charles Krinke: going once to r9740 [10:08] M1sha Dallin: and me [10:08]  Starky Rubble: sure [10:09] BlueWall Slade: ++ [10:09] Charles Krinke: going twice to 9740 [10:09] paulie Flomar: I just updated to head, which also seems ok, fwiw. [10:09] paulie Flomar: 9740++ from me [10:09]  Charles Krinke: sold as r9740 as recommended for the week and we will decide on a new one next Tuesday [10:09] BlueWall Slade: be aware of the oar issues that are scattered [10:09] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:09] Connected [10:09] Starky Rubble: be *very* aware [10:09] BlueWall Slade: just check that they finish [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm working on a patch to explicitly abort oars that don't finish [10:10] paulie Flomar: nice [10:10] BlueWall Slade: thanks Justin [10:10] Charles Krinke: Next order of business is to ask for any questions, suggestions, criticisms or announcements from any core developers that are attending. [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: hello sean :) [10:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: rather than leaving them forever hanging. I'm hoping this will provide a better angle on what the problem is [10:10]  Richardus Raymaker: wich version have oar problem ? [10:10]  Michelle Argus is Offline [10:10]  BlueWall Slade: lol, 200 revs [10:10]  paulie Flomar: I understand that we are trying to clean up Mantis? [10:10]  Sean Dague: I'm just happy that grad school is complete so i can start showing up again to these :) [10:10] Starky Rubble: rfecent vers [10:10] BlueWall Slade: 9603> [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: the oar problem that i have for a very long time. always check file size. bad ones are 16bytes [10:11] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:11] Connected [10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: Richardus: yes, that's one issue - I suspect there are multiple [10:11] BlueWall Slade: you have to check with tar or another archiver [10:11] Charles Krinke: that would be cool, Sean. We would really love to have you here. This dialog/stress test appears very useful. [10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon, ckrinke - I assume you are not using the standard bundled asset servers with osgrid any more?# [10:11] BlueWall Slade: Hi Sean [10:11] Sean Dague: Justin, have you thought about sha1 uuids again recently? [10:11] BlueWall Slade: long time [10:11] Sean Dague: yeh, too long [10:12] Starky Rubble: isn't there a change upcomong? [10:12] Starky Rubble: upcoming* [10:12] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:12] Connected [10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: sean: not recently [10:13] Charles Krinke: I have a suggestion for the group. I would like to see this conference room used more by other groups and businesses until it becomes a scheduling problem for all of us. [10:13] Sean Dague: I was just thinking that the awesomeness of oar files seems to be exacerbating the dup asset issue [10:13] Sean Dague: I was nudging chris yeoh about it the other day as well [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: if you are planning to use any of the plazas for an event, just let us know we can restart it prior to the event [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: and monitor it as well [10:14] Charles Krinke: One of the things the OSGrid admins have been promoting is that everyone make oars of their regions on a regular basis since we are at the "bleeding edge" 99% of the time. [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sean: yeah, by default the same asset uuid is reused, but this is a potential weakness [10:14] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:14] Connected [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: what kind of asset server is OSGrid using these days? [10:14] Sean Dague: ah, ok, I didnt' realize it was pushing asset ids, I thought they were recreated on upload [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: for the next 14 hours cable beach [10:14] Starky Rubble: and whats up tomorrow night? [10:14] Charles Krinke: It is a 1TByte disk, dual-cpu fairly hot server at cari.net [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: then we are back to the SVN asset server [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sean: no, they are reused. Which was the cheap hack to stop dups [10:14] Sean Dague: ah, ok [10:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: charles: is the code the stuff in OpenSim, or something else? [10:15] Sean Dague: I wonder if the lotus guys know that [10:15] Charles Krinke: CableBeach right now, but evolving back to the mainline svn OpenSim [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: we are using fragstore for the storage vessel [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: adams disk based storage system [10:15] Sean Dague: as I think they are manually generating oars [10:15] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:15] Connected [10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: it's not impossible that people are having oar issues because the osgrid asset server is a little different from the oine in OpenSim [10:15] Sean Dague: I'll have to nudge them [10:16] Starky Rubble: oh its tonight lol [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: but I think there are other issues too, some of them caused by the recent architectural changes [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: its possible [10:16] Charles Krinke: Can we get a Lotus rep into our "Office Hour" ? [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: we'll find out tonight [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it though Justincc [10:16] Sean Dague: neb, nice selection of music videos [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: it only seems to be certain regions [10:16] Sean Dague: charles, well it's mostly me or dr scofield [10:16] Sean Dague: well, we would be the likely people to show up here [10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I suspect for some reason the asset service drops some asset requests. I'm going to implement a timeout so that the oar gets aborted and tells you a few of the uuids it never got [10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: which is a start for fiding out if the failures are occasional or not [10:17] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:17] Connected [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya i myself seem to not have issue on my windows based regions [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: but i also get a 20ms ping to asset server [10:17] Charles Krinke: got it, Sean. You and Justin have prority for any discussion for the next few minutes until we open it up to the testers more, BTW. [10:17] Richardus Raymaker: makeing oar's is already a time consuming busniss. :( [10:17] Sean Dague: for linux folks, we found some "fun" memory bugs in mono 2.4 while trying to get it working on power [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: ya mono 2.4 is definatly bugtastic [10:18]  Sean Dague: there is a patch we posted out to the mono-devel list for it [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: 2.5 is pretty sweet though [10:18]  Sean Dague: which makes things much better [10:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes - it's very heavyweight [10:18]  Charles Krinke: Are we at the stagewhere we need to be more definite on recommending mono-2.5? We have een lukewarm on that to date. [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: this region is running Mono 2.5 SVN [10:18]  Richardus Raymaker: whereis a 2.5 source download ? [10:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: sean: there is a bit of info on the oar format in the wiki, admittedly pretty much the minimum [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: hang on i have new Tarball directions i created [10:18]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:18] Connected [10:18] Michelle Argus is Online [10:18] Sean Dague: panda can actually support multiple environments for the same tests [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1334 [10:19] Charles Krinke: Should we be pushing mono-2.5 on our osgrid.org loginscreen? [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: this will install the mono 2.5 source tarball [10:19] Sean Dague: so I could add selected mono revs in as well [10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: also, I think the asset cache changes remvoed my ability to explicitly remove assets, which bloats the memory requirements unless that cache is improved/tuned better [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: probably not the login [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: login is not always sim owners [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: that could be overwhelmingly confusing [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: at the login i think [10:19] Charles Krinke: sure, just trying to figure ot if we need to be more explicit [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: but maybe we can be more vocal about it in other areas like the forums [10:20] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:20] Connected [10:20] Charles Krinke: Ok, lets open the discussion up to anything the testers wish to bring up. Keeping in mind we can go back to anything previous [10:20] Jenniver Quandry: does that mono patch address these creeping memory issues? http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3701 [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: ive been having pretty good success though [10:21] Richardus Raymaker: as long there still ones that runb mono 1.9.x [10:21]  Nebadon Izumi: having people use my instructions that are on the forums [10:21] Sean Dague: Jenniver, I doubt it [10:21]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:21] Connected [10:22] Sean Dague: it mostly deals with a segfault around using a method after it got unloaded [10:22] Sean Dague: which turns out of be the #1 cause of the 2.4 crashes that we've seen [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: is it the trampoline? [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: It might be worth saying on the wiki that we only support 2.0.1 now?... [10:22]  Penny Lane: Last stable mono in Gentoo Portage is 2.0.1, which probably says something about the quality of later ones. [10:22] Justin Clark-Casey: as a minimum? Well, I know there are disagreements about that :) [10:22] Sean Dague: Neb, I'm not sure [10:22]  Sean Dague: it may be the same [10:22]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i think 2.0.1 is definatly the minimum now [10:23]  paulie Flomar: I have 10 bug son Mantis that have been around for thousand sof revs. They are bugs in basic functioanlity like sitting and building. Maybe someone could look at som eof those. [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: opensim wont run with 1.9.1 anymore [10:23]  Sean Dague: yes, 1.9.1 doesn't do the templates [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: you get that tresponse [10:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, so it's pretty much enforced anyway. Fair enough [10:23]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:23]  Connected [10:23]  Richardus Raymaker: there's no official mono 2.5 ? like the mono 2.4 [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: not yet [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: its still SVN in dev [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: but its very stable [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: compared to 2.4 [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: hmm wait i where trying libgid [10:23] Charles Krinke: Are we going to be dropping Visual Studio 2005 in a few months? [10:23] Richardus Raymaker: omg. [10:24] Charles Krinke: And supporting only Visual Studio 2008 ? [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: here again one more time [10:24] Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: is the mono 2.5 tarball instructions [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PocrPNzHo9g [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: dang [10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: haven't we already dropped VS 2005? [10:24] Richardus Raymaker: and then you need to know mono 2.4 is much nicer with memory and the new opensim [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: didnt copy [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: hang on [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1334 [10:24] Starky Rubble: I thought we dropped C#2005 a month ago [10:24] paulie Flomar: RR: did u meant to say 2.5? [10:24] Jamenai Luik: ah one question: is there any chance to save the maptiles more layered? (Maybe Zoomlevels) [10:24] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:24] Connected [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: not at the moment [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: we would need to cron task that Jamenai [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: from asset table [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: do some converting [10:25] Jamenai Luik: yes but actually is only for every region [10:25] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :) [10:25]  Starky Rubble: Hi [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: yea it would be pretty expensive [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: on a grid like this [10:25]  Jamenai Luik: i need some stuff so that i have in the second zoomlevel 4 regions on 1 tile [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: to convert all those jp2 on a regulare basis to several zoom levels [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: we explored google maps in the past [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: and had similar issue [10:26]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:26]  Connected [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: the lindens use a bot [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: to crawl the grid [10:27]  Jamenai Luik: maybe i can work on serverside with imagick [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: its a headless bot that crawls and renders the scene [10:27]  Richardus Raymaker: no mono 2.4 works good here to. i have the feeling i can run the region longer [10:27]  Jamenai Luik: and generate the stuff [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats how they build their map tiles [10:27] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.5 (Dev)        .9740  (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: they dont use the simulator or asset database [10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: Hello Dahlia [10:27] Charles Krinke: No problem, Richardus. We are just finding that mono-2.5 is pretty good and there are a number of folks with older monos that are struggling. [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: but, lets build new one [10:27] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:27] Connected [10:28] Dahlia Trimble: hi justin :) [10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: if anyone has trouble testing mono 2.5 let me know [10:28]  Charles Krinke: Morning, Dahlia. Welcome as always. [10:28]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: i have lots of fixes and work arounds that i can probably recommend in certain situations [10:28]  Bri Hasp: your post renders 2.4 as 135174 [10:29]  Richardus Raymaker: i used for ubuntu last time this page. http://blog.ruski.co.za/page/Install-Mono-on-Ubuntu.aspx with some little changes it must work with daily to [10:29]  Charles Krinke: Ok, this is the time for my default plea to add notes to Mantis either confirming or denying the Mantis so the developers can help move some of them to their final destiny. [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: the tarbal version should not report a tag [10:29]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:29]  Connected [10:29]  Penny Lane waves at Dahlia [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: not a mono revision just the svn revision # only [10:29] Sean Dague: This is the mono 2.4 patch that helps [10:29] Sean Dague: http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/mono-devel-list/2009-May/032301.html [10:30] paulie Flomar: I regulary revisit my Mantisi and restest to see if the issues have been fixed. [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: Sean: I missed it - what does that help with? [10:30] Charles Krinke: Are there any 'showstoppers" that folks are stuck at that we are ignoring? [10:30]  Starky Rubble: I have a philosophical question about mantises. Is a failure to match SL behavior (like llDie or bouyancy) mantis-worthy or does something like that belong in the features wishlist? [10:30]  Sean Dague: it eliminates a set of crashes [10:30]  paulie Flomar: q: should very old Mantisi (thousands of revs old) be closed and resubmitted or left in place? [10:30]  Richardus Raymaker: black avatar, not good loading avatar textures. [10:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: Sean: ah ha - thanks [10:30]  Sean Dague: that turn out to be races in memory deallocation of methods [10:30]  Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:31]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:31]  Connected [10:31]  Sean Dague: this are mono level crashes [10:31]  Charles Krinke: I would say that matching SL behavior of SL is an admirable goal, but not one we should spin around in circles trying to accomplish. [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: Starky: I think we treat that as features [10:31] Bri Hasp: aha I see now neb [10:31] Starky Rubble: I thought so [10:31]  Starky Rubble: but I have been reading mantises and wondered [10:31] Romulun Rockett: Sorry guys [10:31] Charles Krinke: Usually the Mantis dicussion notes are a good place to hash that out. [10:32] Richardus Raymaker: then ,many regions have that problem. i think also with newer ,mono [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: ping [10:32] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:32] Connected [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: starky: yes - I think previously a lot of feature stuff was put in the Mantis but we try and avoid that now. Use Adam's tool instead [10:32] Starky Rubble: Oh I am aware of that [10:33] Penny Lane: Well SL can't meet its own specs, and they're full of corner cases, so Opensim trying for 100% wouldn't really make sense. Especially given the different physics. [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya i would say if an LSL function is not behaving as intended [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: Yes, I think cleanup of old ones is always good. If they're really broke, people can reopen them [10:33] Charles Krinke: We are very non-strict about creating Mantis, and I think the converse of this is that we should be non-strict about the developers closing a Mantis also. [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: ping [10:33] Starky Rubble: but i will now add notes to really old ones that should maybe be moved [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: being LSL is a standard [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: i would mantis it [10:34]  Richardus Raymaker: only thing that woyld be nice to work the same is lsl [10:34] Penny Lane: Hehe [10:34] Charles Krinke: Well, since we dont have specs for OpenSim, it is much easiere. [10:34] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:34] Connected [10:34] tx Oh: but it would be nice to have most events and detects covered, like touch and stuff [10:34] Richardus Raymaker: makes learning easyer [10:34] Bri Hasp: well some get blown off as "thats how it's designed" then closed.. how can I then state bad design? [10:34] Charles Krinke: I would say that any LSL function that doesnt work at all is important. Those we need to get into and fix right away. [10:34] Maria Korolov is Online [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: bri: yeah - don't have an answer there myuself [10:35] tx Oh: thats not really true. touch event is not unimportant [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: well if its a bad LSL design then that requires a Jira [10:35] BlueWall Slade: SimFPS: 55 | PhyFPS: 45 | Root Agents: 17 | Child Agents 0 | Memory: 852 [10:35] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:35] Connected [10:35] Charles Krinke: Well, Bri, I understand and concur. I also have to live with all the 'disparate genius personalities', some of which tend to write notes on Mantis that preclude discussion. [10:35] Starky Rubble: heh [10:36] Dahlia Trimble: my viewer is freaking out big time [10:36] Charles Krinke: When that happens, I would say, lets have a discussion on the opensim-dev mailing list so an imporant issue does not get lost. [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya, it might even be better to ask 1st on -dev email [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: before wasting time on a mantis too [10:36] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: find out if its a bug 1st [10:36] Bri Hasp: k [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: remember its a bug listing [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: not really a question asking forum [10:37] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:37] Connected [10:37] Charles Krinke: As we get more personalites using OpenSim, working our communication via IRC, Email and in-world will continue to get more challenging. [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: you shouldnt be asking questions on mantis [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: its for filing bug reports [10:37] Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:37] Richardus Raymaker: you can better place that in  font on the mantis sie [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: if what your writing comes off as a question its better posted on the mailing list i think [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: either opensim or opensim-dev [10:38] Penny Lane: Almost worth banning personalities, and making everyone write as AC#, where the is periodically switched randomly. :P [10:38] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:38] Connected [10:38] tx Oh: sighs [10:38] tx Oh: to many channels [10:39] Charles Krinke: [10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: Penny: Ever read Cryptonomicon? [10:39] Charles Krinke: Well, as we grow as a community, all these channels will grow also. [10:39] Penny Lane: JCC: it's on my shelf, unread :-( [10:40]  Charles Krinke: Justin: Thats my favorite book. Randy is my hero. [10:40]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:40]  Connected [10:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: Penny: The e-mails from a 'hive mind' community only used numbers instead of names :) [10:40] Richardus Raymaker: make a channel with elise software. works possible the same :) [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya it just makes it difficult and time is wasted when things that are not necessarily bugs are posted to mantis [10:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: mine too - Snow Crash is the only book that I like more [10:41]  Charles Krinke: ok, so I think the underlying issue is making sue that important Mantis do not get swept aside. Is that a fair way to state the problem? [10:41]  Mystical Demina: reading Snow Crash to my 11 year old son, he really likes it [10:41]  Penny Lane: JCC: haha, great. I really must read it. (Neal Stephenson is my second favourite SciFi author, after Banks) [10:41]  tx Oh: mine is shockwaverider [10:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: Penny: yeah, you won't regret it. It's a truly excellent book, thuogh it tends to polarise (some really can't see the point of it( [10:41]  Penny Lane nods [10:41]  Richardus Raymaker: how's the region lock thing going ? [10:41] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:41] Connected [10:41] Charles Krinke: Penny, best to have a dictionary handy to look up the big words and analogies. [10:41] Penny Lane: I'm good at big words :P [10:42] Richardus Raymaker: it happens to much you need to bring a region down for some short time [10:42] Formica Multiuso: i'm sorry [10:43] Richardus Raymaker: how long will the downtime be ? [10:43] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:43] Connected [10:43] Formica Multiuso: can you help me? [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: not really sure i think adam said 1-6 hours [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: im going to say it will be atleast 5-6 hours [10:43] Neas Bade is Online [10:44] Formica Multiuso: hi sean [10:44] Richardus Raymaker: i know, copy stuff is after 20 years still slow [10:44] Charles Krinke: Formica, this is "Office Hour" where we discuss OpenSim software development each Tuesday here at this time, not really a support activity. [10:44] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:44] Connected [10:44] Formica Multiuso: charles. I know... I'm an italian student [10:45] Charles Krinke: We also have "Q&A Hour" on Saturday at the same time on "Zaius Plaza" which is a free-form question, answer & support time. [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: im sure if you hang a around a while after the meeting someone can help answer questions [10:45] Charles Krinke: Sean: Visit "Bade Plaza" some time. [10:45] Sean Dague: will do [10:45]  Sean Dague: has it been built up more since last time? [10:46] Formica Multiuso: and I'm interested on following the develop of OS. [10:46] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:46] Connected [10:46] Charles Krinke: ok. What are the things relating to the next weeks software development that we have not discussed today?? [10:46] Sean Dague: I actually have a forked version from a while ago that I use as my meeting space behind the firewall [10:46] Charles Krinke: ah, probably pretty close, then. Depending on how old it is, Sean. [10:47] Kitto Flora: Anyone else poking at Vehicle support? [10:47] Sean Dague: it's about November of last year I think when I was given the copy [10:47] Bri Hasp: sighs [10:47] Formica Multiuso: I cannot reach you. I'm blocked here. [10:47] Sean Dague: anyone been playing with freeswitch out here on osgrid? [10:47] tx Oh: yeah, is there a good vehicle example? [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: i was playing around with vehciles last night, but things are still pretty rough [10:47] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:47] Connected [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: theres 100 ways to make it crash a sim [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: and 1 way to not [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: very unreliable vehicles are [10:48] Charles Krinke: Jeff Heaton's vehicle scripts are mostly functional. [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: im lucky to get about an hour [10:48] Charles Krinke: Google "Heaton Research" [10:48] Nebadon Izumi: usually much less [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: im unable to turn reliably either [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: on physical vehicles [10:49] tx Oh: i also mantised that non-scripted physical spheres don't roll on a ramp with ode.. [10:49] Nebadon Izumi: without it shooting off wildly [10:49] Kitto Flora: Theres a very reliable crash bug in Vehicles - Second time you sit on it. If you try a vehicle, sit, then get up.... DELETE it, rez a new one and carry on. [10:49] Sean Dague: how steep was the ramp? [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: this is about as good as i got it [10:50]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: watch the screen [10:50] Connected [10:50] tx Oh: about 30degrees [10:50] Dahlia Trimble: spheres should roll [10:50] tx Oh: they roll when you select them [10:50] Sean Dague: interesting [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: i started making a new car though [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its not done yet [10:51] Sean Dague: oh noes, run for you lives [10:51] Charles Krinke: Do we need a "Physical Hour" *or* a "Vehicle Hour" ?? [10:51] Compile successful [10:51] Kitto Flora: Vectoring of the linear engine is incorrect in a turn... I'd work on that but the crash bug is much more of a problem [10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: traffic accidents in paradise? [10:51] Sean Dague: it's the mythical bus that will run over the core devs [10:51] Compile successful [10:51] Richardus Raymaker: hope you put a big loud HORN on it. [10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: oh christ, I'd love to see a red double decker run over MW (virtually :) [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: it does drive [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: but you will notice [10:52] Kitto Flora: Charles: if we had people poking at the Sim Source ODEVehicleSettings.cs etc. Collaberation would be useful [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: the tires have invisble spheres wrapped around them [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: its very crashy though [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: i wont even attempt to drive it here [10:52] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:52] Connected [10:52] Sean Dague: ok, I got to run off and explain panda to our interns. Good seeing everyone. Hope to be here more regularly in the future [10:53] BlueWall Slade: see ya Sean [10:53] Dahlia Trimble: tc sd :) [10:53]  Bri Hasp: I think that basic broken fuctions should be fixed prior to vehicle functions or else more issues will be created [10:53]  Penny Lane: If you're going to add more Hours, please not on a Tuesday, it's massively oversubscribed in SL for OHs [10:53]  Bri Hasp: We do have moving boats. We now need refinements. [10:53]  Charles Krinke: I need to head out and schmooze with my engineers at work. The meeting can go on informally as long as anyone wishes to chat. [10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: sim is running great [10:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: byse sean [10:53]  Neas Bade is Offline [10:53]  BlueWall Slade: bye Charles [10:53]  Charles Krinke is Offline [10:54]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:54]  Connected [10:54]  BlueWall Slade: SimFPS: 56 | PhyFPS: 46 | Root Agents: 20 | Child Agents 1 | Memory: 828 [10:54]  Kitto Flora: Anyone know where Teravus hast gotten to? [10:54] Dahlia Trimble: he's taking a break [10:55] paulie Flomar: neb: have u found any more info on the "looking towards Wright" or "LInden pines" slowdown? [10:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:56] Connected [10:56] Bri Hasp: oh well.. llTargetOmega was semi promised to be implemented. Doesn't work yet, been 6 months [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: no paulie i havent looked much more at that [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: the only thing i noticed about those pine trees [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: is they go out of focus much sooner than most trees [10:57] paulie Flomar: k [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: they seem to vary alot [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: even at close range [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps its just more intensive on mass [10:57] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:57] Connected [10:57] Dahlia Trimble: thats a viewer thing [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: i think its a viewer problem [10:57] M1sha Dallin: I have 1000 Linden Pine at M1 Lepe and M1 Thorn (adjacent regions) - I don't see any slowdown there [10:58] Dahlia Trimble: tree detail in graphics preferences [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt seem to effect everyone [10:58] M1sha Dallin: I run Ultra with 512 draw distance [10:58] Maria Korolov is Online [10:58] M1sha Dallin: I did see a slowdown here [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: newer hardware probably wont see any difference [10:58] Richardus Raymaker: thenmy framerate will anyway drop [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya im sure here there are many reasons why you would slow down [10:59] Bri Hasp: Graphics detail is excellent for me [10:59]  Bri Hasp: and very quick on hosted regions [10:59] Dahlia Trimble: awww you stopped the video before it showed the part where I rammed you :( [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its really hard to say what the problems are fully [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: such a wide variety [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i didnt mean to change it actually [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: i had it pasted down below [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: and i hit enter on the wrong line [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: when typing [11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: Alright, I need to go now as well [11:00]  Michelle Argus is Offline [11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: Happy simulating, everybody [11:00]  Dahlia Trimble: me too [11:00]  Dahlia Trimble: tc all [11:00]  Mystical Demina: i can give a one sentence update on Xenki. I have had a couple people volunteer to work on it. We had our first meeting of the Xenki Advisory board to get feedback from some different communities on what use cases they are interested to use it for. I hope to integrate LookingGlass's architecture into it. If all goes good may have a significat update before end othe month. I hope to start hvaing a monhtly develper meetings soon. [11:00] Bri Hasp: ciao Mr J [11:00]  BlueWall Slade: bye Justin [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: see you guys [11:00] tx Oh: byebye [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming [11:00] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:00] Connected [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye guys [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: so wierd [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: on my screen a lot of people are floating away from the couch [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: out in the air [11:01] paulie Flomar: that is weird [11:01] Jamenai Luik: :) [11:01]  Bri Hasp: beer Neb> [11:01]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe [11:01]  BlueWall Slade: sounds like weed to me [11:01]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:01]  BlueWall Slade: hehe [11:01]  Kitto Flora: Neb: Just packet loss [11:01]  Jamenai Luik: free beer [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: ya something strange with my video card or something [11:01]  BlueWall Slade: Nice Mystical [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: also if i cam out a bit [11:01]  Bri Hasp: yeah,, smoking cactus again [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: some avatrs i only see 1/2 of them [11:02]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:02]  Connected [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: it like cuts the top of them off [11:02]  Jamenai Luik: lol bri [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: about waste high [11:02]  paulie Flomar: ... [11:02]  Kitto Flora: half Avs - same here [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: but if i cam back in it shows [11:02]  Jamenai Luik: same here [11:02] paulie Flomar: "braaaainss..." [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe wierd [11:02] tx Oh: with hippo or 1.23? [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i never saw that before [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: its Hippo [11:02] Formica Multiuso: nebadon, can you help me after Office Hour? [11:02] tx Oh: strange [11:02] Kitto Flora: Hippo 0.5.1 here [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: strange [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: whats the problem Formica [11:03] Bri Hasp: I am on RC .. so looks normal [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: i hope save oar works. [11:03] Jamenai Luik: maybe a transparent problem? [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes it still freeze on some regions. what you try it dont work [11:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:03] Connected [11:03] Jamenai Luik: i have to zoom in so i can see the complete ava [11:03] Formica Multiuso: I would like to tell with you.. about my goal. [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think maybe its impostors [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and the clear windows [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: at a certain distance its blurring [11:04] Kitto Flora: Neb: Looks like thats somewhere in Avatarr Impostors. Try turninng Impostors off in Prefs [11:04] BlueWall Slade: you're writing a server? Formica? [11:04] Bri Hasp: what is the pet cache today? ? [11:04] Formica Multiuso: yes bluewall [11:04] Bri Hasp: I am happy with Zero Cache [11:04] Bri Hasp: haha [11:05] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:05] Connected [11:05] BlueWall Slade: I would like to join the conversation when diva explains the server shells to you [11:05] BlueWall Slade: I saw in IRC