Chat log from the meeting on 2021-03-16

 [11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: although it has it's quirks too [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andres [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Anndrew [11:01] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Andrew [11:01] Chat Logger: Meeting chat logging has been enabled. [11:01] Chat Logger: You can view the log at: https://web.youcantfixstupid.wtf/outreach/index.php [11:01] Kayaker Magic: Wes, you know that Gavin has a viewer version called Dayturn? [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I do, but there is no Linux version [11:01] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Yeah, Gavin and I talked about it. [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: except the old KokuaOS but it is rather dated [11:02] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I may try Cool VL. Anyways don't want to eat up meeting time with a stupid viewer issue. [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: soem say it runs fine in Wine on Linux [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Can Dayturn be compiled for Linux if someone wanted to do that? [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it can [11:02] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: WINE is the worst [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: WINE has its uses. [11:03] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Yes, and they are very limited. [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it can with a bit of effort [11:03] Kayaker Magic: I do prefer to avoid WINE if there is a native product I don't have to run under WINE [11:03] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Same. [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Same here, Kayaker. [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit and I found the oterh day another issue with the latest FS [11:04] Kayaker Magic: For those who don't know, WINE stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator", an emulator that runs Windows programs on Linux. [11:04] Jagga Meredith: love it [11:05] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: What was the issue, Gavin? [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if regions still are not on EEP, and just the default Windlight is set for the region, FS simply ingores it and loads some EEP setting [11:05] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Could that cause crashing in the viewer? [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, it lets you run Windows based programs but I don't think it is a true emulator. That has a certain meaning. [11:06] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Yeah, hence not an emulator. lol [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you set the region to a Windlight setting that is default, but saved separate from the default, FS will pick it up [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Exactly, Wes. :) [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as long as you TP into the region [11:06] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: ;) [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you log directly into the region it ignores it and loads a default EEP [11:06] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Right. [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Of course FS have removed the interface to set Windlight for regions [11:07] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I see. [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it has to be done in like my viewer or you can add regrods directly to the database [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which would be the regionenvironment table [11:08] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Right. [11:08] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi ubit [11:08] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Hey Ubit. [11:08] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hey Ubit [11:08] Kayaker Magic: Welcome Ubit! [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we just talked about FS and Windlight regions [11:08] Ubit Umarov: the issue we noticed? [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I set all regions on my grid to a non default default and FS regognize them on TP [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but not on initial login [11:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit [11:09] Ubit Umarov: hmm?? [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where it just loads default EEP [11:09] Ubit Umarov: we are talking about regions with no eep [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tested on the version they rleased yesterday [11:09] Ubit Umarov: it shoudl load the windlight setting [11:10] Ubit Umarov: err they did release? [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it does on TP, but not if you log directly in to the region [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: new release yesterday [11:10] Ubit Umarov: that mks no sense [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Jelly upddate [11:10] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I believe so. I got an update notification when I launched FS. [11:10] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: jelly update? [11:11] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: LL or yours? [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same as the Sl 6.4.13 update [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL* [11:11] Ubit Umarov: ok i see .. its the 6.4.13 [11:11] Ubit Umarov: well that is nonsense [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't have code for jellies at all in my viewer [11:11] Jagga Meredith: worth upgrading? [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you ca set a 24 hour closk :-) [11:11] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Well, seeing as how I crash whenever I TP, I'm gonna try it. [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: clock* [11:12] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: deep sigh and maybe head banging on the bar [11:12] Ubit Umarov: but.. kinda expected EEP viewers will fail more and more on non eep regions [11:12] Ubit Umarov: just that is silly bc they do talk with them [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS has a commit saying they removed code for legacy Windlight [11:12] Ubit Umarov: yeha will happen more and more [11:13] Ubit Umarov: and it is reasonable [11:13] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I didn't get the notice, I must be running one of Beq's and didn't keep track [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so any old region that is not on 0.9.2.dev will potentially look ugly [11:13] Ubit Umarov: fs version for 0.9.1.1 is like 6.0.2 [11:13] Ubit Umarov: since 6.3.9 blows up editing mesh [11:14] Ubit Umarov: but its a odd thing nver the less [11:14] Ubit Umarov: it is just not decodiing things.. [11:14] Ubit Umarov: that it can decode [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right [11:16] Ubit Umarov: well on code.. think i did a fix [11:17] Ubit Umarov: somewhere [11:17] Ubit Umarov: oar saving noassets option with remote admin was not workink [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the other side is breaking eggs continously now [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you need to recruit Oz out of retirement, haha [11:18] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:18] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: hear hear [11:18] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: :D [11:19] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I just heard about 3 developers who were working on some kind of fork. Maybe they could be recruited. ;) [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for of? [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: fork* [11:19] Ubit Umarov: always forks [11:20] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I dunno. I heard it in passing. [11:20] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Seems like a shame for them to put their efforts into that instead of helping the core. [11:21] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: peeps get frustrated with the core [11:21] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I say that with love [11:21] Ubit Umarov: well seems FS will try to have a release every 3 months now? [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure how much those forks have progressed lately [11:22] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Nice on the FS updates, though that pushes development here too obv. [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the question is to what extent is it valualbe to chase SL [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. [11:23] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Selby [11:23] Jagga Meredith: Albertr was saying something about Linden's developer contact for open source leaving and not being replaced? [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are doing a lot of re-engineering to make it run in AWS, which harldy any opensim instllation can afford [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie. [11:24] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: That's a great question [11:24] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hey Jamie [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Jamie [11:24] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Though FS will continue to chase SL. [11:24] Ubit Umarov: that was Oz and thing he didn't had that job for ages [11:24] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: OS support is an afterthought. [11:24] Jagga Meredith: oh ok [11:24] Ubit Umarov: it was his first job at sl [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is their primary base [11:24] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:24] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody [11:25] Ubit Umarov: adn that relates to tpvs basicly [11:25] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Hey Selby, Jamie. [11:25] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi wes [11:25] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: :D [11:25] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi wes [11:27] Ubit Umarov: hi selby.Evans [11:27] Ubit Umarov: so folks what's new about opensim? [11:27] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:28] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Still hearing a lot of chatter about moving to 0.9.2. [11:28] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Littlefield is moving to it. [11:28] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Bridgemere is on it. [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: except it is still in develpment [11:28] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Does Digiworldz develop their own fork? [11:29] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: KItely is partly moving tp 0.9.2 [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: partly... [11:29] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Cool, Selby. [11:29] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: patches [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Kitely has a lot of custom patches to the code. [11:29] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Awesome. [11:30] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Great grid too. Just visitied for the first time last week. [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not awesome as they share none of their modes [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mods* [11:30] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: lmao [11:30] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Bad Kitely. [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: They haven't so far, AFAIK, but say that some changes will eventually be made available. Don't know when that might happen. [11:30] Jagga Meredith: coding question: I've got some people who dance when you rez them. All they have in them is a 5 line animesh script and a dance. They do NOT show up in minimap. I've also got a NPC script (one line, to follow) that creates a dancing NPC that does show up. If i put animesh script in another figure, it doesnt dance. How do I create one out of the other? [11:31] Jagga Meredith: dancerID = osNpcCreate("First","Last",llGetPos+ <0,0,0.0> ,"My Dancer", OS_NPC_CREATOR_OWNED); [11:31] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I had a few problems with group joiners over there, but I'm still not sure I have groups running correctly. [11:31] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kitely getting a lot of refugees from other grids lately, possibly since they started offering 64 sims for $150/month. Even SL people could find that interesting [11:31] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Nice. [11:32] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Just have to solve the inventory export problem. XD [11:32] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: problem? [11:32] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The $150 places are always on-- no waiting to rez [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be useful for organizations. Very few people would need that many regions. [11:32] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Yeah, how to get your inventory out. lol [11:32] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I kid of course. [11:32] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Selby has one :) [11:32] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: That's a TOS violation. [11:33] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: there are hacks.... [11:33] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000 nods. [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: out off SL? [11:33] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Right out of SL. [11:33] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: legal if not TOS, if you have the creator's permission [11:33] Jagga Meredith: *covers his ears* [11:33] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Lol. Exactly [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: can't do unless you created it yourself [11:33] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Probably not the best forum for this discussion. [11:33] Kayaker Magic: I have a question about [Messaging]: I have a grid using the php helper, is the V2 messaging recommended?  Easy to switch to? [11:34] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes you can, but it's not worth it. I got as much Arcadia Asylum out as I could, with her explicit permission. [11:34] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I use V2 messaging. [11:34] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: otherwise, it's outdated stuff, better to rebuild [11:34] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: It was super easy to setup. [11:34] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Don't know about migrating. [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Hold on a moment, Kayaker. Jagga had a question about a rezzing issue. [11:35] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Sorry bout that. [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, I don't understand what you mean by rezzing people vs. NPCs. [11:35] Ubit Umarov: Digiworldz has own mods.. [11:36] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Gotchya. [11:36] Ubit Umarov: not sure what bas opensim code they are using now... [11:36] Ubit Umarov: it was 0.9.1.1 [11:36] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: K. [11:36] Kayaker Magic: There is an option in the NPC calls to make an NPC appear as a person in the map. Many grids disable that because it can be used to cheat the number of visitors statistics. [11:36] Grid: Jagga Meredith gave you Animesh Dancing Old Woman. [11:36] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I'll have to ask the owner the next time I see him. [11:36] Kayaker Magic: Many grids turn it on so that they can pump up their visitor statistics. [11:36] Jagga Meredith: oh ok, I'll find that and disable it [11:37] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Nice. [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, ok. You are rezzing mesh objects that look like people and see different behaviour when rezzing NPCs. [11:37] Jagga Meredith: andrew just sent you a dancing woman that rezzes and you can change the dance [11:37] Jagga Meredith: I want to build a mesh object person that I can make dance [11:38] Kayaker Magic: There are a few dancing Animesh just outside the door here. [11:38] Jagga Meredith: yep [11:38] Jagga Meredith: so how do I change their appearance? [11:38] Jagga Meredith: or put that code in something I have or build? [11:38] Jagga Meredith: I've got NPC XML files [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: NPC is loaded from a notecard [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Animesh objects would eventually show in the map as an object but would likely be too small on the minimap to be noticable. They won't show up as green dots as they aren't avatars. [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so dress up as you want the NPC to look like, generate the notecard and load it after [11:39] Kayaker Magic: The easy way to do what you want Jagga is to get one of the NPC making kits out there. You dress up an avatar, save as NPC,. [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: amimesh is a completely different beast [11:40] Jagga Meredith: OK, done all that. I don't actually want an NPC, I want to make a dancing anhimesh [11:40] Jagga Meredith: of me [11:40] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: you need to have a rigged model with animations for animesh [11:40] Ubit Umarov: jagga those are objects.. not NPCs [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Animesh can be animated, hence the name. You can see examples of them nearby. [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then you need a rigged mesh of yourself [11:40] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: textured and all [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with attachments [11:40] Kayaker Magic: You can probably make an animesh of your avatar mesh, but it might not have any clothes.... [11:40] Ubit Umarov: objects with avatar bones.. [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and then you can animate that with animesh scripts inside it [11:41] Ubit Umarov: rest is just like any other object [11:41] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Blender with either the Avastar or the Bento Buddy plugin should get it done for you. [11:41] Jagga Meredith: ah ok [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes Ada, but it is a bit of work :-) [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: potentially a lot of work [11:42] Ubit Umarov: you can't "dress" them like we can with NPCs, using a notecard etc [11:42] Ubit Umarov: out NPCs are like avatars just without any viewer behind them [11:42] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: that's right - they have to be either textured with system clothing, or add add attachments in Blender and import as an object [11:42] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: or both [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you possibly could attacha rigged piece of clothing, but if that actually will move with the avatar is another question [11:43] Jagga Meredith: so probvabvly faster to build an NPC, turn off visibility on map [11:43] Kayaker Magic: The dancing animesh here were made as one object with all their clothes part of the build. [11:43] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: if it's rigged correctly it will [11:43] Jagga Meredith: gotcha [11:43] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes that's easier [11:43] Ubit Umarov: npcs should only show on minimap now [11:44] Jagga Meredith: still a nuicance - don't want mine to show up at all [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed Ada, it just to get it rigged correctly that is the small detail... [11:44] Jagga Meredith: so nedx to brush up on my blender [11:45] Jagga Meredith: ok thanks - done [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Ada often comes to my Blender class on Wednesday mornings, all are welcome. [11:45] Jagga Meredith: will try to make it [11:45] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:45] Kayaker Magic: And Blender 2.9 is a LOT easier to learn than Blender 2.7 [11:45] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I will too actually. [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, You're saying there has been a change so NPCs won't show up on main grid map any more? Is that optional? [11:46] Ubit Umarov: a lot easier does not mean easy :) [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Avastar and Bento buddy don't work / work well with 2.9 [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Blender is changing some things again with Blender 2.92 [11:46] Ubit Umarov: yeah that option was forgotten [11:46] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, infinity/5 is still infinity. [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you are stuck on 2.7 or 2.8 [11:47] Kayaker Magic: I'm running Blender 2.9, it is close enough to 1.8, no huge changes. [11:47] Kayaker Magic: *2.8 [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I can imagine some people not being happy if NPCs aren't shown on the main grid map. [11:48] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: No doubt. [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: HGB monthly summaries will collapse, haha [11:48] Ubit Umarov: yeah many also not happy when many things like copybots don't work well.. who cares :p [11:49] Kayaker Magic: LOL [11:49] Ubit Umarov: and map is not used on grids stats [11:49] Ubit Umarov: map is map [11:50] Ubit Umarov: right ? [11:50] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: sorry back. I also have some armatures, built from the viewer Character folder - avatar_skeleton.xml. Simpler than Avastar and Bento Buddy, but take more knowlege of armatures and rigging [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps there should be a(n optional?) different colour dot for NPCs on the grid map. [11:51] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: It's easier to stay updated with Blender. If you wait too long to upgrade it takes longer to adapt to the improvements, or respond if they break something [11:51] Ubit Umarov: like any soft [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Ada, too late. There have been way too many changes since 0.5. :) I haven't had time to keep up on all the features they keep adding. 2.92 now has some (enhancements to their) video editing features. [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: any Microsoft - whas that what you meant? [11:52] Ubit Umarov: well and guess lot more coming [11:52] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: ya. there's advice from many 3DCGI 'experts' not to upgrade in the middle of a project. But my projects tend to go for a couple of years, and with Blender it's pretty much upgrade or die. [11:53] Ubit Umarov: gpus started to suport ray tracing and other things [11:53] Ubit Umarov: ofc blender always used raytracing .. bu may mean more things [11:54] Ubit Umarov: to cover designers needs for models [11:54] Kayaker Magic: Blender did a TOTALLY new user interface in 2.8, so those who knew 2.7 had to start over. But it is better IMHO. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: well i guess [11:54] Ubit Umarov: their UI as very well their UI :) [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at least they did not do a totally new processor like Apple did [11:55] Ubit Umarov: arm is not new [11:55] Jagga Meredith: M1? [11:55] Ubit Umarov: really it is a very old processor now [11:55] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if all your code is compiled for Intel it is [11:56] Ubit Umarov: apple users run mobile apps on those [11:56] Ubit Umarov runs and hides [11:56] Ubit Umarov: well that is actually true and will be more [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure, but those mobile apps are built on avery strict set of code base [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac apps are using all kinds of open source libs and stuff that never will be or can be compiled on Arm without major effort [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is starting to show [11:57] Ubit Umarov: and apple did ever liked those? :) [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://opensource.apple.com [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: used extensively [11:58] Ubit Umarov: guess apple wants full control also software side [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not possible [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but iOS apps are built on UI kit [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac apps are not [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not at all [11:59] Ubit Umarov: well dunno [11:59] Ubit Umarov: lets see :) [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: UI kit does not even exist for macOS [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mono will not be ready till .Net 6 [12:00] Pius Noel: hello everybody [12:00] Ubit Umarov: well guess things like Yengine will not run on those macs [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Piua [12:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Pius [12:00] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Hey Pius. [12:01] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Pius [12:01] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Must not have been aware of the time change. ;) [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Daylite Wastings Time. [12:01] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Exactly. [12:01] Ubit Umarov: well it only changed for usa [12:01] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Yep. [12:02] Kayaker Magic: Changes in Europe in a few weeks? [12:02] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Right. [12:02] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: and only parts of the USA [12:02] Ubit Umarov: las sunday of march [12:02] Ubit Umarov: last.. [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: last Sunday in March [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Before we wrap up for today Kayaker had a question about messaging in OS. [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Do not create a saved outfit automatically for new users - does that sound like a good change for the viewer? [12:02] Kayaker Magic: California is working on opting out of daylight wasings time. If that happens, grid time will no longer do this! [12:02] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: And I just wanted to give a quick note about documentation after that. [12:03] Kayaker Magic: I got an answer: V2 Messaging works, I'll try switching to it. [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Ontario, Quebec, and New York state have introduced bills to stop changing the clocks. [12:03] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Okay then. I have a plan in place for updating the groups documentation. [12:03] Jagga Meredith: Gavin yes good idea [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, ok. I haven't tried it so I don't know what is the difference. [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: before you know it they will issue a bill to stop the clocks too [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is it Jagga? [12:04] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I just need to open one more ticket to get an official answer fior some potential issues users may experience. [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, one difference may be in how you handle forwarding of offline messages to email. [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: would not a completely new user benefit from having the first outfit change saved and be there for use on next login? [12:06] Jagga Meredith: Gavin: will encoiurage users to use outfits. what you are wearing stays with you [12:06] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: I think so. Most new users don't even know about or understand outfits. [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is my thinking too Wes [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, how will you define "new users" and when will it start saving their outfit changes? [12:06] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Or even how to change clothes and alphas for that matter. lol [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: someone who logs in first time [12:07] Ubit Umarov: outfits are a thing.. [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: shrieks in horror over the default avatar look [12:07] Ubit Umarov: what you wear depends on COF [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and desperately looks for something else to wear [12:07] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Lol. Yeah, Ruth scared my daughter. Legit. [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Most grids assign an outfit to a new user as part of setting up their avatar account. [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not all opensim users are grid users [12:08] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Bingo. [12:08] Ubit Umarov: ruth is so cute and pretty gezzz [12:08] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: lol [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha [12:09] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yup, Shin Ingen put a lotta love into Ruth's body. I was there, lolol [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the colors of the clothes... [12:09] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Shin made the original Ruth? [12:10] Ubit Umarov: errr you know that can be read out of context, right ada? [12:10] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: The default system avi? [12:10] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes, the topology. Which I altered quite a bit so it could be UV mapped to the LL maps and rigged. [12:10] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Oh, didn't know that. Thought they just made the mesh avatar project. [12:10] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: I know but the double entendre applies, lol. [12:10] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: lol [12:11] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: He put a whole lot less love into Roth, so I had more of an influence on Roth's topology. [12:11] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: there were about half a dozen of us working on the UV mapping, which was a booger [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we are talking about the system avatar [12:12] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: ah. the original Ruth. sry [12:12] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Right yeah. [12:12] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kayaker and I are working on that, but only sporadically, it'll take a long time [12:12] Ubit Umarov: yes the cute pretty one [12:12] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: ouch [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lol [12:12] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: It could very well be worth it though. [12:12] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: worst topology ever [12:13] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: and the unnamed male is even worse, morphed out of the female [12:13] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: :D [12:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah.. when it was the oposite in rl [12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with pink and purple system clothing [12:13] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Well, I gotta run to a meeting in RL. [12:13] Ubit Umarov: wel not even for a full male.. just a bone? [12:14] Ubit Umarov: from.. [12:14] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Thanks as always. [12:14] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: seeya Wes tc [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Wes. See you next week. [12:14] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Yep. See ya. [12:14] Pius Noel: bye Wes [12:14] Kayaker Magic: LOL, and I thought Ubit was talking about the Y chromosome.... [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye Wes [12:14] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: it was bad topology even by 2005 standards [12:14] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Good to see everyone. [12:14] Wes.World @theshire.techzendo.net:59000: Later. [12:14] Ubit Umarov: nopes more about Adam thing [12:15] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ubit getting perversely biblical [12:15] Ubit Umarov: Adam and Eve :) [12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not Adam and Steve [12:15] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: Steve came later [12:15] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:16] Ubit Umarov: ofc ll had to mk even that wrong [12:16] Ubit Umarov: lol [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if God had Adam it must have been much easier to clone it into Steve [12:17] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: :-) [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Any last minute items before we wrap up todays meeting? [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [12:18] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:18] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty ty [12:18] Ubit Umarov: i do need go rl [12:18] Jagga Meredith: good meeting [12:18] Ubit Umarov: cya later [12:18] Pius Noel: thank you [12:18] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks everybody [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TC Ubit [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm impressed by how we didn't have any one who got caught out by the time change.