Chat log from the meeting on 2010-01-12

[10:50] Key Gruin is Online [10:51] Michael Skelito: hey hiya [10:53] Michael Skelito: why is my bandwidth bouncing all around here? [10:54] Michael Skelito: oh [10:54]  Michael Skelito: nvm [10:56] Michael Skelito: yo [10:56]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:56] Michael Skelito: hows it going [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: good [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: nice quiet morning [10:56] Michael Skelito: yes lol [10:56] Michael Skelito: hey did you know the land under lbsa is lower then prim [10:56] Michael Skelito: base [10:57] Michael Skelito: platform [10:57] Michael Skelito: thats why avie go under when they stand [10:57] Michael Skelito: hmm but it doesnt do it here weird [10:57] Michael Skelito: lbsa floor [10:58] Michael Skelito: more peeps wee [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not sure why thats happening [10:58] Michael Skelito: raise terrain ubder it [10:58]  Michael Skelito: under even [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks. glad to see you got the inventory issue sorted out (mine at least) [10:59] Michael Skelito: hiya Justin [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: yep everything should be back to pretty much normal [10:59] Dahlia Trimble is Online [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: we did alot of fixes this week to the database [10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: cool - was it an inventory cleanup tool run amok? [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i think its 2.5 years of never cleaning the table [10:59] Tesira Luco is Offline [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: we literally never did any mainenance on those tables [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: not ever [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey grins [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: so looking at it in that light [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: its amazing we made it 2.5 years [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey nods [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: that says something for the software [11:00] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: it likely wont happen again though [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: not on that scale [11:01] Michael Skelito: was it the import stuff that broke many? [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: i think the server was just on the fritz [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: several factors [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: database cruft [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: long running inventory server [11:01] Michael Skelito: I just had that login issue [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes only reset once a month [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya the login issue was related to inventory [11:01] Michael Skelito: but inventory has always been fine [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: basiclly anyone who could not log in [11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: hi menadon, skelito [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: thier inventory parentfolder ids column got whacked [11:02] Michael Skelito: hiya [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: nothing was lost but the folder strcture got skewed some how [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, is this a new one, because it says 1.61 [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: 1.61 is the newest [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i have not made any more since then [11:03] Michael Skelito: who fixes svn? [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: might have a new one next week with some new functions on board [11:03] Michael Skelito: teravus? [11:03] Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: he might [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: SVN is going to not always be around [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: ok [11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: it may already past its expiration date [11:03] Michael Skelito: yesI know [11:03] Michael Skelito: lol [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: the thing was [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: Sean set it up [11:03]  Richardus Raymaker: hello hiro [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: sdague [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and he has since left the project [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi jcc [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hey richardus [11:03] Hiro Protagonist: Hi Rira [11:04] Michael Skelito: I know teravus kicked it a few times [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hi whitestar [11:04] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:04] Michael Skelito: I miss it :) [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya right now that box has 3 primary maintainers [11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm i use git, offcorse i still dont know all commads [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: Teravus, Adam and Melanie [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: any fixes will have to go through them [11:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: hello [11:04]  Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:05]  Friendly Harbour: hello everyone :) [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hu andrew [11:05] Michael Skelito: hi hi [11:05]  Hiro Protagonist: just an aside here, but it sure is nice to be on a box where the video orks [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe nice Hiro [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: also something i did yesterday [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie made the Grid server reject duplicate sim names [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so i purged all dupe sims from table [11:06] Michael Skelito: nice [11:06] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:06]  Hiro Protagonist: OH Excellent! [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: hopefully that will improve the grid experience a bit [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: even if only marginally [11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: that explains why ir finaly worked yesterday [11:06]  WhiteStar Magic: back... Hi Everyone [11:06]  Hiro Protagonist: I was thinking about that earlier [11:06]  Hiro Protagonist: it would be so simple to do [11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: becasue Pardise send me to paradise. [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: the problem wasnt as bad as you think [11:06]  Hiro Protagonist: just set the column 'must be unique' in the sql [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: 73 regions total [11:06]  Richardus Raymaker: sorry Paradise -> paradise [11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: had dupe names [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: so it wasnt a giant problem by any means [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: but one less anoying thing to worry about [11:07] Michael Skelito: you asked for that awhile back didnt you? [11:07] Michael Skelito: or someone did [11:07] Key Gruin is Online [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ive been asking for that for well over a year [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: there were reasons in the past to not stop it [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: but now and for quite some time now, that is no longer the case [11:08] WhiteStar Magic: hi dahlia [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: back when the load balancer was being worked on and looked like it had potential [11:08] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: it was more tolerable to deal with the issue [11:08]  WhiteStar Magic: There's a nice little mantis waiting for ya [11:08]  Michael Skelito: shes zooming around [11:08]  WhiteStar Magic: too much Jolt Cola [11:09]  Michael Skelito: lol [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: but now that its proven to be somewhat of a dud theres not much point in maintaining that attitude [11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: greetings dahlia [11:09]  Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: so what else is going on with everyone? [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have any hot topics? [11:10] Dahlia Trimble: sim seems really responsive today [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya its running on near head too [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i updated last night [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i implemented a new update procedure here [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: more automated [11:10] WhiteStar Magic: funny.. ypour timestamp is about an hour off mine ... [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks is mostly an interested observer with ideas on a couple things he would like to work on in the OS code. [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully we get a bit more consitancy now [11:10] Hiro Protagonist: I'm gettin unusually good graphic framerates [11:10] Friendly Harbour: "hot" .... i've been struggling with the cold the last few weeks lol [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: what kind of things, Andrew? [11:10] Dahlia Trimble: Andrew, tell us more :) [11:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: I started work on OSSL functions that could let a script add a person to a group. Useful in land/shop rental boxes. [11:11]  Andrew Hellershanks: Also interested in trying to fix giving inventory from links in NC's. [11:11]  Key Gruin is Online [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: is that not working? [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: i noticed that images work from notecards [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: had not tried anything else [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: might look at how images work [11:12]  Dahlia Trimble: patches are welcome, be sure to read the contribution policy on the wiki first [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: cause im pretty sure that works [11:12]  Andrew Hellershanks: well... I'd have to test the code from git. It isn't working in a grid I'm using that is running 0.6.9 as of a couple weeks ago. [11:13]  Dahlia Trimble: yep patches are best made and tested agains our git master [11:14] WhiteStar Magic: lots is changing too [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: also an update on the new asset servers [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: both machines have been successfully installed into the data center [11:14] WhiteStar Magic: ... [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: lag.... [11:14] WhiteStar Magic: that was nasty [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, of course. I haven't updated my copy of OS from git right now because it is a pain to merge the latest code with my copy that has some changes to support a group join script function. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: hehe someone playing wiht inventory? [11:14] Michael Skelito: nope [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: anyway an update on the new servers [11:14] Hiro Protagonist: not I [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: both servers have been successfully assembled and installed into the New Jersey data center [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: same center that hosts our plaza04 server [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: new jersey data center? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the asset rsync is well underway [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: about 70% complete [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: of 200gb [11:15] Friendly Harbour: what is the current status of getting user and message servers into ROBUST? [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I'll take a look at the policy before my next patch. I've already had a couple of small changes of mine get in to the OS code. [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes the new Asset servers will be hosted in North Bergen, New Jersey [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: same data center that hosts Lbsa Plaza [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: same rack infact [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it should improve things for our EU crowd a bit [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: moving things 3000 miles closer [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: isnt UK hosting cheaper? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: friendly: I think you would need to ask diva or melanie, though it certainly appears to be progressing from all the commits taking place [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: I think it's probably provisioned with a far superior network connection too [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: well not with the hardware we purchased [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: we purchased 12tb of discs etc.. [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: 16gb ram [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: these machines are very beefy [11:17] Friendly Harbour: jcc: ok, good to know :) [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: it was way cheaper to buy the hardware and host it ourselves centrally [11:18]  Michael Skelito: should this help load testing? [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: not really no [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: but it will extend the life of the grid significantly [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: probably quadruples our life span [11:18]  Michael Skelito: nice [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: but some people might see better perofrmance [11:19]  Michael Skelito: so basically load testing isnt hardware then [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont think anyone will see any declines though [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: so thats good [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: these are really nice boxes [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: we got an amazing deal [11:19]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev)        7467a47: 2010-01-11 22:52:05 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: it will be a bit more still though before they go live [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: also i will also break the news here [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: we are going to have the osgrid.org box reloaded too [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: we will shift 100% of operations to these new boxes for a week or two [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: while the primary box is reloaded [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I should look for a simulator version script. [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but i have no firm date when that will happen [11:20] Michael Skelito: any down time? [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: maybe [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: we will minimize it to our best ability [11:21] Michael Skelito: seems people dont mind if they know about [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: we will give everyone ample time to prepare [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: and hopefully most wont even notice [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its a long time coming [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: that box is messy [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: and has needed to be reloaded for the better part of a year now [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: we will probably move from debian to suse [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: suse has been very awesome [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: its what this simulator is running in [11:22]  Michael Skelito: whats lbsa? [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: Debian [11:23] WhiteStar Magic: Andrew : http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Using_Git#Resolving_git_hash_.26_revision_numbers [11:23] Michael Skelito: that getting switched as well? [11:23] Friendly Harbour: so all the grid services and grid owned sims run on linux? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: no that box will stay as is [11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: for now anyway [11:23] Penny Lane: Distros shouldn't really make a difference, beyond some adding unecessary bloat that isn't needed for running a sim. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya for mono and development purposes [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i find suse to be the most cozy place to be [11:24]  WhiteStar Magic: IMO... OSG shoudl run on most known to be Stable. Everyone else is running whatever was ever created by whoever. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ive found with other various distros i spend too much time worrying about linux [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: and less about OpenSim [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I've found that distros do make a difference [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: Suse gives me the freedom to focus on dev [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: and not linux suport [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: often necessary libraries for mono will vary [11:25] Hiro Protagonist: that may be true in the strict theoretical sense Penny but our experience runnig a dozen or so regions in a production capacity tends to indicate otherwise from a practical perspective\ [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: and then some servers have bizarre kernels [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: experience helps [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if your very familiar with any particular platform [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: thats always an advantage [11:25] Penny Lane: Hiro: some distros are bad for you? [11:25] Hiro Protagonist: centos and redhat blow goats [11:25] Hiro Protagonist: need I say more [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: I use centos ok [11:25]  WhiteStar Magic: poor goats [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: we had problems with debian for a long time [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ive not used Redhat in a while [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: CentOS is a great Enterprise OS [11:26]  Dahlia Trimble: now I have centos and debian and windows servers [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but not a great choice for deving on OpenSim [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but again personal experience helps [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: im mostly just more comfortable in suse than anything else [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: its breaks the least [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: so its my fav [11:27] Dahlia Trimble: centos has a nice firewall [11:27] Will Boudreaux is Offline [11:27] Dahlia Trimble: which can get in the way :/ [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: of all the OS's Debian is probably my least fav [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its the most breaky in terms of Mono [11:27] Penny Lane: It might be nice to roll an Opensim-specific distro, cut down to only the tools needed for deploying a sim. Would be good for booting on VPSs. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: though i must admit Debian 5 is much better [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: debian 4 gives me bad dreams [11:27] Dahlia Trimble: VPSs are really inconsistant [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid.org was Debian 4 at birth [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: lenny is nice [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: then forced to Debian 5 [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and it went horribly bad [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it needs to be reloaded [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: I have a few regions on osgrid running on lenny right now, they are pretty solid [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya starting fresh with 5 is much better experience [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: but still id prefer suse in the end [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i like the closeness to mono too [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: thats a nice bonus [11:29] Dahlia Trimble: I've never successfully installed suse, wont run on my hardware :/ [11:29] Penny Lane: I'll try building a barebones Gentoo with nothing on it except what's needed by Opensim. Should be pretty slim. [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: Gentoo is one ive not used before [11:30] Michael Skelito: whats the word on viewers these days? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: been quiet [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: WhiteStar, thanks but the issue is about handling git pull when git tell me there is a conflict it can't resolve between the latest code and my checked out files. [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ive not heard anything lately on viewers [11:31] Penny Lane: Neb: as it's a source-based distro, it allows you to tweak the deps so that stuff you don't want doesn't get brought in, so can be very sleep for tight deployments. [11:31] WhiteStar Magic: Imprudence is @ 1.3 test [11:31] WhiteStar Magic: looking really good too [11:31] Penny Lane: s/sleep/sleek/ [11:31] Michael Skelito: any good? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya that makes sense [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: luckily we currently have an excess of hardware cycles [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: were not fighting to squeeze in 1 last bit [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:32] Friendly Harbour: i use imprudence 1.3 on sl and find it to have poor performance and frequent crashes [11:32] Dahlia Trimble: I was running imprudence and the latest meerkat and when I teleported a lot of land and water would not appear [11:32] Dahlia Trimble: works fine on hippo [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I head that Imprudence is the new viewer replacing Meerkat [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I heard [11:32] WhiteStar Magic: Meerkat is dead [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the LL based viewers all use each others code anyway [11:32] WhiteStar Magic: soeone finally caught it and killed it [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: after a few weeks and months [11:32] Penny Lane: Imprudence is extremely stable here, maybe more stable than in SL, hehe. [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: all the viewers end up the same [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: All just have a few UI differences mainly [11:33] WhiteStar Magic: Well... krowa o MK is contributing to Imprudence [11:33] Dahlia Trimble has to go, bye all :) [11:33]  Penny Lane: !Sim bandwidth is at zero. I think WP is taking a dive. [11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [11:33]  WhiteStar Magic: the HPA Backups and restores are in teh new rev [11:33]  Michael Skelito: byees Dahlia [11:33]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:34]  WhiteStar Magic: Anton and teh team are working hard on Naali [11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: back from phone, hi penny. [11:34]  Michael Skelito: so refactoring still going on? [11:34]  WhiteStar Magic: yeah... big time [11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: i think opensuse (server) is the best linux for starters. you can do everything easy with yast. onloy soem things you need midnight commander and manual edit. [11:34]  WhiteStar Magic: sounds awfull good [11:34]  Michael Skelito: miss the load tests lol [11:35]  Hiro Protagonist: I'm actually a big fan of what I'm seeing with radegast/lookingglass [11:35] Hiro Protagonist: it's fundamentally different [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubuntu seems to have done a fairly decent job of making things work out of the box. [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: I'm so sick of this 'viewer' I could shoot my monitor with a 12 guage shotgun and obtain a certain amount of satisfaction [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya radegast is pretty cool [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: soo OpenSim is turning 3 too [11:37] Penny Lane: Sure would be nice if the Opensim community got their own viewer, not dependent on LL. [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have any parties planned or anything? [11:37] Michael Skelito: you do lol [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ive been reluctant to plan anything with the inventory issues [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but now that we are past that [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i think its safe to plan some parties [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: just building on area to do mettings or so :) [11:39]  Michael Skelito: whens the bday? [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: in the next 2 weeks [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont know the exact day [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: just that its the end of this month [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: last year we had a good week of parties [11:39]  Michael Skelito: last year was fun [11:39]  WhiteStar Magic: Terrible Two's are nearly done, now into Toddling 3's [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi pust child safties on all the cabinet doors [11:40]  M1sha Dallin: Does that mean we'll fall over a lot? [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:40]  WhiteStar Magic: and nw runners to chase it [11:41]  Michael Skelito: has anyone noticed more people coming in these days? [11:41]  OtakuMegane Desu: Sure [11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: are there any new osgrid user statistics around? [11:42]  Michael Skelito: any word on avie creation yet? [11:42] Michael Skelito: is that core? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: what you mean creation? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: like from website? [11:42] WhiteStar Magic: seems to be a lot of noobs showing up [11:42]  Michael Skelito: yes [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: another note about user stats [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: in 2010 [11:42] WhiteStar Magic: it's increasing from what I have seen [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: we have already signed up more users in 2010 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: than we did in the 1st year of operation [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: the word start to spread [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: we are well over 1500 new users in 2010 [11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: Just given the number of "halp how do i opensimed?" requests in IRC I'd say we got something of a boost the last month or two. [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: on track for 50,000+ new users this year [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: if those numbers keep up [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: but thats a big "IF" [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: hi otaku, yes last time there more in irc [11:43] Michael Skelito: lbsa is a joke with ruths this week [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya its all the noobies [11:44] Michael Skelito: same question...how do i edit my avie [11:44] WhiteStar Magic: Invasion of the Ruthies [11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: I should visit Lbsa more lol [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: they are coming it at alarming rates [11:44] Michael Skelito: I forgot how sl does newbie [11:44] WhiteStar Magic: It's on eof teh reasons I finally got around to writting teh HOW TO for Windows Installation.... been meaning to do it but lately, someone is asking teh same stuff, once twice a day if not more [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: this days SL newbies are nice skinend .. right ? [11:45] Michael Skelito: new peeps dont know of forum and irc [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: what happend with the welcome center in osgrid ? [11:45] OtakuMegane Desu: SL dumps them in a confusingand laggy newb corral. Hopefully someone will help them or they'll manage on their own [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno about nice [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but ya on SL you get a choice on the website [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i made a avatar not long ago and the new avatars are kinda odd [11:45] WhiteStar Magic: they are better than Ruth] [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i really didnt like the choices they give [11:45] Michael Skelito: is that a pain to implament? [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but ya [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: it is better than ruth [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: but i still wanted to replace it just as fast [11:46] Penny Lane: Is the Diva Distro getting a lot of traction among new OS recruits? [11:46] WhiteStar Magic: would be nice to have say 3 Male & 3 Female Starters to pick from [11:46] Michael Skelito: yes [11:46] Michael Skelito: how did lendgend do it? [11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: If we're going to do custom starting avs, should get some decent skins at least. Not the mannequin things SL has. [11:47] Penny Lane: Yep [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: michael, its not something like let then choice avatat and the write right uuid to database for the avatar parts ? [11:47] WhiteStar Magic: there must be a way to export teh avatar shape,skin etc and stick it in the library [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: avatar choosing is really outside the scope of OpenSimulator [11:48] Michael Skelito: so thats website stuff [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its more something thats part of the web interfaces [11:48] Michael Skelito: not core [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:48] Michael Skelito: ok [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: as it is right now opensim is capable [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: its just our website is not [11:49] Michael Skelito: I just watch alot editing default ruth and fail :) [11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: a good fast welcome center with premade avatars work fine to [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we should have something soon [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: just so much stuff going on [11:49]  Michael Skelito: there are some at lbsa but they miss it [11:50]  Michael Skelito: any work on # of avies in a sim these days? [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: that depends on the hardware OS and sim operator really [11:50]  Michael Skelito: I mean like lbsa [11:51]  OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm [11:51]  Michael Skelito: it gets pounded [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: Lbsas problem is mono [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:52]  Michael Skelito: oh [11:52]  Michael Skelito: ok [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: mono still has a long road ahead [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: as does opensimulator itself [11:52]  Penny Lane: I remember on the old wiki there was a proposal for offloading sim load to cope with more avatars than SL regions can. Did that ever go beyond proposal stage? [11:52] WhiteStar Magic: is LBSA going to be on SUSE on teh new machine ? [11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah. But both are vastly better than they were when I started. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: no Lbsa is Debian 5 [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and will remain so for the time being [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 32 bit [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats our safe box [11:52] Michael Skelito: did you ever test lbsa on windows? [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:53] WhiteStar Magic: damn shame... that needs otbe stabalized [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: we have in the past [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt make that much difference really [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its still going to crash alot [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: with opensim bugs [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: mono tends to run out of memory more often though [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it can have a higher incidence of restarts [11:54] Michael Skelito: is sl the same? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: no cant really compare it to SL [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: SL is not mono [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its C++ and Python i think [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: are the mono devs hunting the problem, or are fauteres more important ? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: mono is just incomplete [11:54] OtakuMegane Desu: I'm sure it's on the list of bugs to hunt [11:54] WhiteStar Magic: side bar... hows is teh resources running on Wright at this time.... we have been here almost an hour and minimal issues ... ??? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: it has no real GC system [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the GC wont work until mono 2.8 [11:54] Michael Skelito: well if windows does it too then there are other issues [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well it crashes less in windows [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Most "features" are on hold for now I believe [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: but its still going to crash [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: opensim is not perfect [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: but .net does out perform mono [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: its not a fair fight [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: mono is incomplete [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: .net is not [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: but still i think most use linux on servers [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: They're closer now, though. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya [11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: its improving a ton [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: but theres still a few miles of road [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: its pretty good with 2.6.1 [11:56] Penny Lane: Neb: eek! I hadn't heard that a good GC won't come until 2.8. If that's actually on the roadmap, it seems to mean that they're aware it's bad currently. [11:56] OtakuMegane Desu: It's not a big enough difference that you should use one or the other for such reasons. Go with whatever works best for you personally. [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: Penny its not bad [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: its non existant [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: there is no GC right now [11:56] Penny Lane: Haha [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: no compacting GC [11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: it will use all your ram and just die [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: omg [11:57] Michael Skelito: GC in windows? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: .net is fully compacting GC [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: its very performing too [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: very fast [11:57] Michael Skelito: tell that to the mono guys :) [11:57]  OtakuMegane Desu: So if proper GC gets implemented, that'll probably lift the avatar limits a good bit I'd assume? [11:57]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, I have avi creation working from a website. [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: its stubbed out in current mono [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: but its mostly still just stubs [11:58]  Penny Lane: Well that explains why Radegast eventually sucks all machine memory on Linux too then. And libomv bots must as well. [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: hopefully by mono 3.0 it will perform more like .net does now [11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: mono 3.0 thats 2011 i think [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: ya it wont be this week [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:58]  Richardus Raymaker: grin [11:58]  Michael Skelito: so opensims hands are tied [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: at this time yes [11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: it wont be until 2011 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: mono 2.8 is slated this year [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: it just wont be fully optimized until 3.0 likely [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: maybe not even then [11:59] Michael Skelito: do you see 100 stable avies on a sim? [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: wel, no better software the opensim to test the CG. [11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:59]  OtakuMegane Desu: Fully optimized, probably not. That's a long process for anything [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: i think 100 will be the wall though [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: for a long time [11:59] Hiro Protagonist: easily [11:59] Hiro Protagonist: that is far [11:59] Hiro Protagonist: *isnt [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i dont see much beyond 100 on 1 physical box [12:00] muuu gnuhurd: hola hi [12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I'm going - see you folks later [12:00] Michael Skelito: hi [12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming man [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: Bye justin [12:00] Michael Skelito: bye Justin [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon [12:00] WhiteStar Magic: Take Care Justin [12:00] Penny Lane: Cyu JCC [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: btw justin when you have some time [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: id like to talk to you about a OAR feature [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: a OpenSim.ini setting [12:00] OtakuMegane Desu: I think that if you don't run out of memory, opensim itself is actually the next limiter. Or some component of it. [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: to allow the default OAR folder [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: oh thats a nice function nebadon, that could be very good for my backup. [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: to be different than bin/ ? [12:01] WhiteStar Magic: Good Idea nebadon [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: yes [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: 0.6.9 doesn't seem to be leaking memory like the 0.6.6 (and 0.6.8?) before it. [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I shall add to the list - I hope to do some stuff on Friday (busy during the week atm) [12:01] WhiteStar Magic: yeah... allow us to set a default path to wherever we want them [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: great, thanks man [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: anything you need let me know [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: will do [12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: take care justin memory leak if OpenJPEG comes across a texture it can't decode. A few key textures trigger the bug -- the green Linden hand is one. [12:28] WhiteStar Magic: That HAND is bad... LOL... now that is funny