Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15

[11:03] Sheera Khan: Arielle? when you announce the meeting in Opensim Virtual could you please add the HG-URL? The sign at Wright Plaza has vanished quite some time ago ... [11:04] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i hadnt  actually  announced  in ops  virt  for a  few  weeks [11:04] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: should get back  on that [11:07] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: can you  maybe  prod  some  devs? [11:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: just did [11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hello! I've been gone for a 3 week camping trip. Anything happen while I was gone? [11:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: prodding has been done [11:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: IRC is all mergie mergie at the moment [11:09] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: mergie? [11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, nothing at all. ;) [11:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Some code merges going on so the channel is polluted with messages .. [11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, you missed a few discussions about mesh objects and physics. [11:10] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: who is merging? [11:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I agree Kayaker, but when in  Rome [11:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: looks like a general merge updates to some branches [11:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: need to plop a meeting space in the middle of an empty region and call it done .. (maybe something that actually runs core code) [11:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Hard to demo things about core code, when  not on a region running it [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true dat [11:15] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: we  came  here  because  Wright Plaza wasnt  good  for  Ubit [11:15] Sheera Khan: best in a grid running core modules and standard configuration too ... [11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I can toss a core region on one of my dedicated servers if anyone would like [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: wright was  good  when  Neb  was  coming because of  having  access  to console [11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I can setup an account on one of my servers for just a dev region and give that access to the devs .. Not overly difficult .. [11:17] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: connected to osgrid? [11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes [11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I keep a full time region connected here anyway [11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, Any region that is run and maintained by the osgrid owners is running master (or close to it) [11:18] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: as I said, I could set one up running master, I almost always run master [11:18] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: not exactly according  to Ubit  but  ok @ Andrew [11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arielle, if Ubit wants to be in a region that is running the absolute latest version of master, then a special region needs to be setup. The code here is close to, or sometimes is the same as, what is in master. [11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It depends on when the people running osgrid last updated the grid. [11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Current simulator: Rev Paela OpenSim 4.0.1 Dev      (Unix/Mono [11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it has been that for quite a while [11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, that version makes no sense. That doesn't give me any idea what version of code is being used here. [11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yep [11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and that is an issue for discussion, that was my point [11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: @Andrew I was referencing your statement "The code here is close to, or sometimes is the same as, what is in master." [11:21] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: it  was a solution  for  troubles  Ubit  was  having  attending [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Asset server is not the same (maybe the most important component of opensim) and profiles are not the same to mention two [11:22] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the profiles on osgrid still use open profiles, which is still acceptable to use in master [11:22] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: They are just not using the V2 stuff [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but that code is never updated? [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think Ubit's point is he needs a bigger configuration to flesh out bugs in master [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OSG is too big and unpredictable [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i think  for  Ubit  it  needs  to be  a relatively  light  region [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what he can run on his local machine is too small [11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: He has a Linux VM that he has access to [11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and I know he is running some VARs on that [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, what code is never updated? [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: many bugs only materialize in a bigger configuration and when you have users / testers doing unexpected things / use patterns [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: version 1 profiles [11:26] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I agree Gavin, Lab Test vs Real World [11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, are you talking about the external addon profile module vs the built-in core profile module? [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:27] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: is Ubit  doing  any  fixes  on  profiles? [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: A test grid needs to use the core module both to test it for bugs and scalability [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not some other module that happens to work [11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I maintain the external module. It gets updates now and then if there are bugs in it. [11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: << Personal opinion, not a fan of V2 , but that is just me .. [11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There are a few outstanding issues as the result of switching to the use of PDO instead of mysql or mysqli but that's about it for the items currently on the todo list. [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is a different matter, but core is core till it is changed [11:28] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: V2 was  with hypergrid  in mind  wasnt  it? [11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Perhaps since HG support is part of core. [11:29] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: Diva did  it  i thought [11:30] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: LL did the origional concept together with IBM / I was in the AWG back then the first jump to OSGrid was in 2008 [11:31] Sheera Khan: Diva was quite active the last days... Is there any news about a possible release? [11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: did Diva's  recent  commits  bring  us  any closer  to a  .9 release? [11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:32] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org nudges  Andrew [11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arielle, I would have to do a git blame to see who worked on that code [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Let MB fix Bulletsim now that he is at it before a release? :-) [11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, Are you going to finish that thought? [11:34] Kayaker Magic: Mister Blue: thanks for the recent fixes! [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: finish what? [11:34] George Equus: " Speaking of which" [11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, you said "speaking of which". That is a statement usually followed by some thing on a topic just mentioned. [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ...sorry I am compiling a viewer so getting a bit distracted [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I said let MB fix Bulletsim before a release [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and then he showed up [11:35] Misterblue Waves: Hey Gavin, you're the one with the Mac server, aren't you? [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:35] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: MB Should  stand  for  Mister Bullet :) [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was going to ask if I should compile a new mac version for you [11:36] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: LOL :_) [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose all the changes are on the repository? [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: AFAIR the last time we built on Xcode 4.6 which is ancient [11:38] Misterblue Waves: not quite yet... I'm checking into opensim-libs as we type [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OK, but I can try and compile the current version with a much more recent Xcode [11:38] Misterblue Waves: I updated BUILD.TXT so that's the place to start [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:40] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: Rob did  any  of the  fixes  address  stair climbing? [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I also built a new version of ODE/ubODE for macOS that is now on master [11:43] Misterblue Waves: no, haven't touched stair climbing [11:43] Misterblue Waves: is there a Mantis describing what is wrong, Arielle? [11:44] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: tbh I have  not  specifically  looked  because  the normal stated   solution  is  to put in an invisible  ramp [11:44] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but i do  see  that   it is unnecessary  with  Ubode  so wondered  if  that was  posible  in  bullet [11:45] Misterblue Waves: someone needs to add physical knees to the avatars so they can walk up stairs properly :) [11:45] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: heh [11:45] Misterblue Waves: going up stairs is a kludge in any of the physics engines because it has to simulate something rather than modeling an actual step up movement [11:46] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: currently with bullet  the  stairs  i try  i have to approach  sideways  instead  of straight on [11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arille, what is the height of the steps? [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose you talk about prim steps Arielle, because if you supply a proper physics model bullet stairs works fine [11:46] Misterblue Waves: BulletSIm does it differently than ODE (tries to notice running into a low barrier and pushing the avatar up to overcome it) but it doesn't follow the LL standard [11:47] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i dunno  Andrew  as  the build  that  has  bullet  on ity is  currently  down [11:47] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: yes Prim  castle  build [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for prim steps the step height becomes an issue [11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arielle, ok. I keep steps to a height of about 0.25m max and find I don't have much trouble with them. If you get much above 0.25m it can get iffy as to whether you can climb the stairs without an invisible ramp prim. [11:48] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but can  go up  a  ramp  that  is  steeper  then the   rise  of the step [11:48] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: so must  be  a  function  of  rise  and run [11:49] Misterblue Waves: Gavin: BulletSim checked into opensim-libs [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good [11:49] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: With a ramp you aren't running in to a "wall" like you are with a step. [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the directories with your code has not been touched since 2015, so I'll recompile those first and then add the new code [11:50] Arielle Popstar: ok Andrew [11:51] Arielle Popstar: i will have  to  compare  bullet  with Ubode  for  rise differences [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't pull latest opensim-libs until I squirrel away some changes in my source tree related to the LSL parser. [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: :P [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: We've almost reached the top of the hour. Any other topics for today? [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, just a small one for the wiki [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I happened to look at the load oar page [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is fine, BUT there is no link to save oar [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually I am not even sure if there is a save oar page, but only mentioned in server console commands [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Good point, Gavin. I'm not finding a save oar page. [11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim_Archives [11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it is there [11:55] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: most of it [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OK, but it would be good to have a link from load oar to where the corresponding save oar can be found [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: The page that links to load oar should also include the link to the OpenSim archives page. [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: anyone on mono 5.2 yet? [11:57] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Mono 4.x for me [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tried a standalone on 5.2 recompiled with it today, but it crashed in a spectacular manner [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still using 3.2.8 on my home machine. [11:58] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: :_)))) [11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I use mono mono 5.2 on most of my grid, and 5.4 or testing sims [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think the crash had to do with loading scripts not recompiled, so I'll try again [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Is mono 5 "stable"? Things would break from one 4.x version to the next. [12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Mono 5.2 is release [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Microsoft released VS with support for it yesterday [12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: my grid is pretty stable, and I abuse things [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac and Win versions [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I didn't mean stable as in release. I was hoping they haven't fixed one thing and broken something else like kept happening in the 4 series. [12:01] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Nothing "new" seems broken, let's put it that way [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: We had to avoid using some versions in the 4.x series. [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok. good. [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have added a lot of MS code, so that is probably going to break things, hehe [12:01] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I know it does not play well with older versions of nunit [12:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I should say, OOOOOOLLLDDDD versions of nunit .. [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, how old? [12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: like the version on the core jenkins ... LOL [12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: :P [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Ask Diva about that [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I know i have nunit 2.6 [12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ran into the issue yesterday [12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: newer VS code blew up on the old nunit tests [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't even find a package called nunit installed on the os.org machine. [12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I ran the same build that the Core jenkins would fail, on mine with newer mono and nunit and the tests completed without failing [12:05] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: nunit-console2 ? [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when compiling master with 4.x it spews out about 280 warnings, but on 5.2 only 110 [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, interesting. [12:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I get 19 errors [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is impressive :-) [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I found no installed packages containing nunit in their name. [12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: my not be a package [12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: may be manual install [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I see nunit20 mentioned in a directory under jenkins. [12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: how's this .. [12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: BUILD SUCCEEDED - 0 non-fatal error(s), 2 warning(s) Total time: 0.4 seconds. BUILD SUCCEEDED Total time: 48 second [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that the output from building OpenSim? [12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yep [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: What version of mono are you using? [12:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: 5.2 [12:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: hang on get you the exact [12:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Mono JIT compiler version 5.2.0.209 [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I have mono checked out on my machine. I'll have to checkout 5.2 and give it a try. [12:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: that build info may have been incorrect .. forgot to clean first [12:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: nope [12:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: same thing [12:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have my own jenkins and view git, if you want to look at it sometime, drop me an IM [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't find a 5.x branch in the mono source tree. [12:12] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://www.mono-project.com/download/#download-lin [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other last minute topics or do we call it quits for today? [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I just updated my source tree from git. [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I see 5.4-bump and 5.7 branch. [12:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I think the master branch is now 5.2 [12:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: as it is in release status [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Interesting that they don't appear to have created a 5.0 branch. [12:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: maybe they pruned the older branches when they went release .. (there were issue with the 5.0 and 5.1)\ [12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, ok. [12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll build master and see what version i get. [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing else for today we can stick a fork in it and call it done. [12:19] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: sooo did you just tell us to Fork Off? [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, not quite. I'm using a cooking reference. :).