Chat log from the meeting on 2020-05-12

[10:59] Ubit Umarov: hi wihite gavin.Hird

[10:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi

[11:00] Ubit Umarov: hi everyone

[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: evening everyone

[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everyone

[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Today, May 12 I woke up to snow

[11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it has been snowing all the way from 58 deg north tom 72 deg north

[11:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: was 70 in North Texas

[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker and Popstar

[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Arielle, you are invisible to me!

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi Gavin

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi Kayaker

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: slow loading i guess

[11:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Kayaker, Arialle

[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, here come some random prims

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi Selby

[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Actually it is the first time she has aver loaded properly for me. Usually she is partly grey

[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ever*

[11:05] Arielle Popstar: have to make sure the load is distributed among all potential users

[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Arielle. Hello, Kayaker.

[11:05] Kayaker Magic: I am running on a pre-release FireStorm, with a new cache to load.

[11:05] Arielle Popstar: Hi andrew

[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that could explain a lot

[11:05] Arielle Popstar: partly gray Gavin?

[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not today, but usually yes

[11:06] Arielle Popstar: not wearing anything i havent before

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe Ubit did something to the simulator

[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Arielle, you will be happy to hear that all your clothes rezzed first, body arriving now...

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I mean he has been pushing updated by the dozen

[11:07] Arielle Popstar: but seems there are some issues for hypergrid people wehere there is a problem of one or thee other grid using port 8003

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: He has pushed a lot of changes this past week.

[11:08] Arielle Popstar: and what do they do Andrew?

[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't always tell from the commit messages. A lot of changes were related to the http server.

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: this sim is outdated, Bill lost in RL

[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Some changes were related to the Flotsam cache.

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: does not even show up at irc now

[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but is he OK?

[11:09] Arielle Popstar: so maybe we need to move the meeting space?

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: hope he his

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: just that mindset change after his problems i guess

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: changed focus to RL

[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can see that

[11:11] Arielle Popstar: maybe he found dev meetings stressful

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: opensim dev issues are stressful and very frustrating

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: at least on ocasions

[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks nods

[11:12] Arielle Popstar: from a code perspective or an acceptance one?

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well 99.999% of the time :p

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: that human prespective

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: thats

[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, sometimes both. :)

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: code is just code

[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ha, try tell that to Visual Studio

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: can be irritating also.. many times pure Vodoo

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: but is code

[11:14] Arielle Popstar: its where changed code leads

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: garbage collector, a exception.. irritating broken crap all the time

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: why don't those morons add a optional FREE

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: damm religions

[11:16] Arielle Popstar: ?

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: garbage collector religion arielle, we have no wait to tell it "GIVE my F* memory back.. i do not want this anymore"

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: and it does never release it.. kist loses it in some cases

[11:17] Arielle Popstar: thats a linux issue isnt it?

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: don't knwo what option dan changed but LBSA is using 13GB of ram now

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: same code.. no real leaks

[11:18] Arielle Popstar: wow

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: just the crap GC is not working

[11:18] Arielle Popstar: does that help people to load faster?

[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does he know what option he changed?

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: no

[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: in many cases it is just lost memory

[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that makes it more interesting

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: .net lost track of it

[11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: getting senile...

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: i think it is related to flotsam files expire

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: that code is just BAD

[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: can't it run without flotsam?

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: ( and not that easy to improve it )

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: we can't run opensim without it now

[11:20] Arielle Popstar: what good is the cache if it doesnt help to load the people up faster anyway

[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you could before?

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: been a option is just a trap for noobs :p

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: and NEVER use its memory cache, unless you don't mind to have alll assets in memory for ever

[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: haha

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: i should delete the other cache option there, that is memory only

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: again GC makes memory cache impossible

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: when it expires, GC just loses it

[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we don't want to cache bad hair

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: dan made that mistake also on sandboxes

[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hair and jeans with 200k tris

[11:22] Arielle Popstar: what makes it bad to begin with?

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: they where using tons of GB

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: so every thing ppl seen was in memory

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: in case od assets, i made that unreleased memory still work

[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'd been wondering about that when people say they have regions needing 16 GB memory

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: unCollected Hit Rate: 30.48% (1895 entries 5 alive)

[11:24] Arielle Popstar: where dos the xbakes pull from?

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: those 5 things are things GC should had released and didn't

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: but using weekreferences, i can get them

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: bf i added that code, that would be just lost memoty

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: bahh GC is pure vodoo

[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is it the same on Win and mono?

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: identical yes

[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: pitty

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: and getting similar bc its all ms now

[11:26] Arielle Popstar: linux was always the bad one for GC

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: 6.10 was looking a bit better

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: before dan messed aroudn with flotsam settings

[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002 whispers: and he cannot revert the settings?

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well not sure what he did.. need to wait he getting back from work

[11:27] Kayaker Magic: You did some changes to simplemoneymodule, moving the URI to the [Economy] section? NSDTL has always used [Economy], Gloebits has gotten the URI out of [Startup], is this going to require changes to OpenSim.ini for grids that have an economy?

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: it was this morning :)

[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, IC

[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: never change yout settings in the morning unless you want to ruin your day

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: yes those settings need to be per money module

[11:28] Arielle Popstar: i got a money module warning entering here

[11:28] Arielle Popstar: that was a first

[11:29] Arielle Popstar: i think

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: now viewers can get a override for the helperURI ( that is land and currency handlers ) per region

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: well this is on older code

[11:29] Arielle Popstar: but i never seen that message here beofre

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: never seen that warning

[11:29] Kayaker Magic: Actually, the "different server" message says it was built today

[11:30] Arielle Popstar: so if older, i shouldnt be seeing it

[11:30] Ubit Umarov: this oen was built today?

[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't see any money module related message when I arrived today.

[11:30] Kayaker Magic whispers: two hours ago, Bill's chrontab is working even if he does not!

[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: :)

[11:30] Arielle Popstar: i did

[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In region Dev Outreach at (11089, 10001)

OpenSim 0.9.2.0 Yeti Dev 09:32:50 05-12-2020

[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is what the viewer reports

[11:31] Arielle Popstar: right smack in the middle of my window

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: he had stopped that crontab

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well then we are on the new bugs

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: but there is a needed entry on [economy] now

[11:31] Kayaker Magic: New improoved bugs!

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: here at osg

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: like economy = blabla.osgrid.org

[11:32] Arielle Popstar: Yungster was mentioning the message too the other day in Lbsa

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Ah, and the crontab isn't smart enough to read the git log and change the OpenSim.ini

[11:32] Arielle Popstar: so we get that message by default now?

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: but you only see things if you arrive from a region using money, specially gloebits

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: ive no idea what that message is

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: sounfs a FS disclaimer abotu $

[11:33] Arielle Popstar: i dont see a record of it now

[11:33] Arielle Popstar: could have been yes

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: i looked on fs cources but did not found it

[11:33] Arielle Popstar: it was fairly long winded with no spelling mistakes

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: it maybe a disclaimer FS ppl think they need because reasons

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: so be free from $ problems

[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the exact message?

[11:35] Arielle Popstar: way too long for me to remember and i dont see a record of it after i closed it

[11:35] Ubit Umarov: fs blabla fs blabla blabla

[11:35] Ubit Umarov: :)

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: my changes where to suport that per region setting

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: to at least undo it when one arrives from a region with $

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: but there is the need for that economy = gridMoneyUri

[11:37] Arielle Popstar: is it possible using region code to steal any monies in the account?

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: nahh

[11:37] Arielle Popstar: for those that have a gloebits type account?

[11:38] Ubit Umarov: region code is a dummy

[11:38] Ubit Umarov: i mean the module we provide

[11:38] Arielle Popstar: meaning?

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: i can't speak for code ppl actually run

[11:39] Arielle Popstar: but the regions have some control over it?

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: security is a money modules makers issue

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: ( reason why we don't make one )

[11:40] Arielle Popstar: then why would you need to make changes in the region code for it outside of the money module?

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: sp ypu stop seening gloebits at lbsa

[11:40] Arielle Popstar: why would it matter ?

[11:41] Arielle Popstar: i sort of wish osgrid allowed gloebit donations anyway

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: outside the scope of this meetings telling those details

[11:41] Kayaker Magic: A completely different issue: I have been on some grids where I am able to get (unavailable) items when I HG to other places. I cant test the version I build for this because OSGrid doesn't support suitcase. Are there any known issues with suitcase?

[11:42] Ubit Umarov: think osgrid had big issues with suitcase in past

[11:42] Ubit Umarov: so now they refuse to use it

[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think OSG needs to keep a proper trail on their donations for tax reasons being a registered non profit. Mixing Gloebits into that equation could be a total can of worms

[11:42] Arielle Popstar: there was supposed to have been a HG 2.5 but dont think diva ever got around to it

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: possible 2.0 first.. or event 1.50000001

[11:43] Arielle Popstar: HG 2.0 does have a couple probs

[11:43] Kayaker Magic: I'm talking about going to grid X that has suitcase enabled, then I HG to grid Y that has suitcase enabled, then I reach into inventory and pull things from grid X to grid Y with no restriction

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: oops there is a 2.0 ?

[11:43] Arielle Popstar: there is

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: ok

[11:43] Arielle Popstar: or was

[11:44] Arielle Popstar: HG 1.5 was an interim release

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: well hg has tons osd issues still

[11:44] Ubit Umarov: ..of...

[11:44] Arielle Popstar: 2.0 was suposed to be final but there were some issues discovered

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: there is not "final" on those things

[11:45] Arielle Popstar: years ago the talk was to make the inventory travel with the viewer from the originating grid instead of sending it to the destination grid

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: diva is now thinking about creator rights protection

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: she opened a discussion on her blog

[11:46] Arielle Popstar: but that fell by the wayside for some reason

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: that of course i forgot the url

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was the first post on that blog for years

[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I'll have to create an account on one Yeti based grid, HG to another Yeti based grid and verify the issue myself. I'll submit a mantis if I see the problem.

[11:46] Arielle Popstar: at the time the viewers url's couldnt be changed as Ops devs didnt have access to that

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: im very skeptical on those issues on opensim context

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: thx gavin.Hird

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: previous post was in 2015

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: a few days ago i tried to look to the uselss and broken export flag

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: but did gave up on it again

[11:48] Arielle Popstar: there was a big debate on that when Mel brought it up years ago

[11:48] Arielle Popstar: because they wanted to roll it out with default no export on

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: very good those debates :p

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: result was a broken useless thing now :)

[11:49] Arielle Popstar: which would have broken all the content out there already exportable and with no creator  present to turn it  with export on

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just get rid of it

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: well main thing is that Mel will veto any export set unless the item is full rights

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only keep the option to not be able to export anything from a simulator

[11:50] Arielle Popstar: Melanie should have gone with Kitely's implimentation

[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or grid

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: easy to understand her reasons

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: but makes it just useless also

[11:50] Arielle Popstar: not really

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: kit allows now freebies to export

[11:50] Arielle Popstar: she goes under the assumption that everyone in opensim is a thief

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: and it is :p

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ooops i said that?

[11:51] Arielle Popstar: not surprised

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: fact is that anything that hits a private opensim machine is automaticly a freebie

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: in same cases, worse.. sold as a original

[11:52] Arielle Popstar: same as s/l

[11:52] Arielle Popstar: nature of the beast

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: so bettre just allow freebies

[11:52] Arielle Popstar: but that isnt because everyone is a thief

[11:52] Arielle Popstar: just some

[11:52] Arielle Popstar: no thats is you dictating

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: ( im not talking abotu copybots issues.. those are other class)

[11:52] Arielle Popstar: which is a form of theft also

[11:53] Arielle Popstar: the options can be made avaialble

[11:53] Arielle Popstar: available

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: you still did not understood that opensim is not a democracy ?

[11:53] Arielle Popstar: of course it is

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: no it is now

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: not

[11:54] Arielle Popstar: sorry, it is opensource

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is a novel idea Arielle

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: opensource does not mean democracy

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: opensource is not democracy

[11:54] Arielle Popstar: opensource means anyone can change the code as they see fit

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: at most means you can chage the code to do it your way

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the original developer does not need to change it just because you "voted"

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: but not decide on how original is

[11:55] Arielle Popstar: and offer it to those who like it

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: how original is, is not a democracy

[11:55] Arielle Popstar: there is a support aspect

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well we keep getting back on this :)

[11:56] Arielle Popstar: you can make the code however you like, but cant dictate people use it

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: thats a consumers right on anything

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: but this is old thing...

[11:57] Arielle Popstar: looking at diva's post, it looks like it is going to be current again

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( i fact i don't see any opensource project that is a democracy.. and does anything usefull )

[11:58] Arielle Popstar: see this line:

[11:58] Arielle Popstar: Nevertheless, the fact that the HG opens additional doors for abuse has been a deterrent for commerce on the Hypergrid, so much so that we recommend “Export” only for freebies.

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: yeap

[11:58] Arielle Popstar: meanwhile an article on HGB that Kitely market has surpassed $250k

[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when did it open?

[11:59] Arielle Popstar: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2020/05/kitely-market-passes-250000-in-sales/#disqus_thread

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: yeah seen that

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: but we are not kitely...

[11:59] Arielle Popstar: bit of a contradiction there

[11:59] Arielle Popstar: doesnt matter

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: possible

[11:59] Arielle Popstar: diva and mel are wrong in their thinkiong

[11:59] Kayaker Magic: My philosophy as a merchant on the Kitely Market is that my stuff will get stolen by people who never would have been my customers anyway, and meanwhile I am making money selling to the honest people.

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: we have our own prespective on that

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: also our target audience is larger

[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet Secondlife marketplace does $2.5 mllion every month

[12:00] Arielle Popstar: opensim is meant to be a framework

[12:00] Arielle Popstar: for either commercial or free market

[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actaully they used to say that the SL economy was about $500 million/year

[12:01] Arielle Popstar: Diva in her blog is turning into a mel

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: the rest of that sentence also stated that should not even do anything

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: just a framework for others to do anything working

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: that was never the case..

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: but it is a framework, also

[12:02] Arielle Popstar: oh blockchain

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: kielty is using it to make her market

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: yeah odd en

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: kitety is using it to make their market

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: so works as framework also :p

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: well

[12:03] Arielle Popstar: oh lol, she wants to institute witch hunts through blockchains

[12:03] Kayaker Magic: I have a quick question before the meeting is over: What is the resolution on llSetTimerEvent? If I call it with 1.01 or 1.02, do both of those result in a time of 1.0909 or some such?

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: the code changs last week, where around http still

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: need to check :p

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: if (sec != 0.0 && sec < m_MinTimerInterval)

sec = m_MinTimerInterval;

[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I wouldn't expect a two decimal place precision to the timer, Kayaker.

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: also since that is a async event, it depends on many other things

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: for example if the script is busy on another event, the timer one will wait

[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: The default minTimerInterval value is 0.1

[12:06] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I know, just using that as an example. But MinTimerInterval is the minimum time you can ask for, not the minimal difference between two times that producde a different result.

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: on a totally empty region, will depend on the threading timing

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: etc

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: so.. not atomic clock precision

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: not even pendular clocks one in many cases :)

[12:07] Kayaker Magic: I wouldn't be surprised to hear that timer had a resolution of 1/11

[12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: broken clock precision hopefully

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: well from what i said, it can't be precise by definition

[12:07] Kayaker Magic: if I want resoution less than that I can switch to YEngine and use llSleep I suppose.

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: lsleep also has variations

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: teh script is placed on queue until time elapses

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: then is placed on exec queue..

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: and will run when engine can

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: so time varaitions..

[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is more liek llMightWakeFromSleep

[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: like*

[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: its sleepAtLeast

[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it might lseep in

[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sleep*

[12:11] Kayaker Magic: I'm going to llSleep in tomorrow morning!

[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is good to have some randomness to it. makes it feel more organic

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: public LSL_Float llGetTime

{

m_host.AddScriptLPS(1);

double ScriptTime = Util.GetTimeStampMS - m_timer;

return (float)Math.Round((ScriptTime / 1000.0), 3);

}

[12:12] Kayaker Magic: I expect the timers to have jitter, just wondering how much I need to plan for.

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: this one has resolution of 1ms ( by definition)

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: Util.GetTimeStampMS has resolution of a few parts of us

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: on machines with hig resolution timers

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: guess worunf 100ns

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: don't remember exact number

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: well thing is is on opensim.log at region start

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: thiink

[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at quarter past the hour. Any last items for today?

[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There was a viewer update out on Wednesday

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ohh i may had deleted that from logs

[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nice

[12:16] Arielle Popstar: what logs?

[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have also built a railway through 3 regions

[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tricky terraforming

[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Do you have working trains?

[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not yet

[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: ok.

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: 2020-05-06 23:46:42,187 INFO [LLUDPSERVER]: Average Environment.TickCount resolution: 15.6ms

2020-05-06 23:46:42,188 INFO [LLUDPSERVER]: Average Util.GetTimeStampMS resolution: 0.000101ms

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: still there

[12:18] Kayaker Magic: cool!

[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: On that basis I wouldn't expect a precision of better than 0.02.

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: no idea how something worked with Environment.TickCount resolution on windows before i did add the Util.GetTimeStamp

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: 15.6ms is just bad

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: think on linux it is 1ms

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: who took my cigars? gezz can't find them

[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Wasn't me. I wouldn't want them.

[12:21] Ubit Umarov: wonder if lbsa did reach 20GB now

[12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can sell them RAMDoubler

[12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Windows version was called something else and has later proved to ly increase the size of the swap file

[12:23] Ubit Umarov: MEMORY STATISTICS

Heap allocated to OpenSim  : 219 MB

Heap allocation rate (last/avg): 0.006/0.014MB/s

Process memory:     Physical 433 MB      Paged 0 MB      Virtual 12972 MB

Peak process memory: Physical 448 MB     Paged 0 MB      Virtual 12994 MB

[12:23] Ubit Umarov: this region is fine

[12:23] Ubit Umarov: same code uff

[12:23] Arielle Popstar: lot less avatars

[12:24] Ubit Umarov: i think its the flotsam files expire

[12:24] Ubit Umarov: dan wants to run it there, bc all those avatar meshes and bakes

[12:24] Ubit Umarov: only usefull for a little time

[12:24] Ubit Umarov: arielle never returns to lbsa with same outfit :p

[12:24] Arielle Popstar: will it help people load faster?

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: no does now

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: not

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: idea is to delete old files..

[12:25] Arielle Popstar: so everything needs to be pulled from the database each time?

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: so disk does not get filled with trash

[12:25] Kayaker Magic: Pretty good meeting! I'm going back to work!

[12:25] Kayaker Magic: Bye all!

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: cya kayaker

[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Only pretty good, Kayaker? ;)

[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a safe week

[12:25] Arielle Popstar: tc Kay

[12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye. Thanks for coming.

[12:26] Ubit Umarov: everytime you change outift and tp to lbsa, yes

[12:26] Ubit Umarov: it needs to get it from assets

[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Cuga.

[12:26] Arielle Popstar: but if i dont chaange?

[12:26] Ubit Umarov: but it is only usefull while you are there

[12:26] Cuga Rajal: Hi Andrew

[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, you are lucky to have come here when you did. We are all about to disappear shortly.

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: that is per date of last access

[12:27] Arielle Popstar: if i jump to lbsa right now, will i rezz to myself immediately?

[12:27] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go-- bye all

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: that is why its damm SLOW

[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bye Selby.

[12:27] Ubit Umarov: and eats memory like crazy doin git

[12:27] Arielle Popstar: tc Selby

[12:27] Cuga Rajal: I've been meaning to get here earlier but RL has made htis a bad time I guess

[12:27] Cuga Rajal: Been wanting to come for weeks

[12:27] Cuga Rajal: thx

[12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, the meeting hour was up about a half hour ago. :)

[12:27] Arielle Popstar: and where does the viewer cache fit into it?

[12:28] Cuga Rajal: Yes I know, 11am

[12:28] Cuga Rajal: Wishful thinking on my part that people would still be here

[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: The last couple of meetings have gone a bit long.

[12:28] Ubit Umarov: thats the last end of the chaches chain

[12:28] Arielle Popstar: usually is as it goes overtime 75% of the time

[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, Did you have any questions or comments?

[12:28] Ubit Umarov: and caches..

[12:29] Cuga Rajal: Question about a possible bug, and general questions about HG inventory cache

[12:29] Arielle Popstar: the viewer cache should allow me to see myself immediately right?

[12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no

[12:29] Arielle Popstar: then whats it for?

[12:30] Arielle Popstar: Just ask the question Cuga

[12:30] Cuga Rajal: Updated to trunk for the first time in a few weeks, seems I have to toggle music icon to see stream changes

[12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Cuga.

[12:30] Cuga Rajal: known issue?

[12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it does not just start loading any crap in the cache - there needs to be a bit of consistency checking that the data has not changed

[12:31] Cuga Rajal: all in group had same issue, wasn't there before

[12:31] Arielle Popstar: so it verifies with the database?

[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, it sounds like typical behaviour, afaicr.

[12:32] Cuga Rajal: Maybe I got luck before.. it used to pop up the dialog for stream change without toggling

[12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it needs to go a round with the db for the scene loading so it does not just load what is in the cache, but what is actually in the scene

[12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, which viewer do you use?

[12:33] Arielle Popstar: so sounds like the viewer cache is somewhat redundant?

[12:33] Cuga Rajal: FS latest OS version

[12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not

[12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, you could try a different viewer to see if the behaviour changes.

[12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it loads a scene very significantly faster if (most of) the scene is the same as what is cached

[12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, Ask your HG related question.

[12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll brb. I need to check on something.

[12:35] Cuga Rajal: I could, but same viewer before change noted; Also want to debug with viewer most visitors use

[12:35] Arielle Popstar: ok so if i understand right, the viewer cache is for the scene assets, not the avatar assets?

[12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that too

[12:35] Cuga Rajal: Fixing it for my people not just myself

[12:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but even that could potentially have changed at the backend, although not particularly likely

[12:36] Arielle Popstar: i heard rumours something had change re caches that cause issues

[12:37] Arielle Popstar: from the backend

[12:37] Ubit Umarov: yeack made a silly bug :)

[12:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to get going.

[12:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you use FS beta (or any viewer beta) it might have issues

[12:37] Andrew Hellershanks: You don't have to leave but I will say goodbye for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.

[12:38] Arielle Popstar: tc Andrew