Chat log from the meeting on 2019-08-20

[10:46] Sheera Khan: Did you too have probs with rezzing the stuff here? [10:46] Ubit Umarov: not for a long time [10:46] Ubit Umarov: and im with suicidal 3000kbps [10:46] Ubit Umarov: on viewer [10:47] Sheera Khan: i have the same setting as Metro has quite a good connection [10:48] Sheera Khan: and normally the stuff here rezzes in very fast [10:49] Sheera Khan: just today I had to wait quite some time [10:50] Ubit Umarov: we now use viewers object cache [10:51] Ubit Umarov: that makes rez a lot faster, except when there is no info for the region [10:51] Sheera Khan: hmmm, that should be quite fast for me as I'm running on a ssd only system [10:52] Ubit Umarov: try relog here and compare with last time [10:52] Sheera Khan: brb [10:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: any better ? [10:53] Sheera Khan: jupp, much faster than before :-) [10:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: :) [10:55] Sheera Khan: do we have to activate that in a setting or is it a new feature of the new code? [10:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: auto [10:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well it does have options.. but on by default if i remember :) [10:55] Sheera Khan: that sounds reasonable ;-) [10:56] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its a old thing on viewers, we had never cared about [10:56] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: till a few months ago when i did review lludp sending [10:57] Sheera Khan: hehehe, sometimes one finds a gem in old stuff? [10:57] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i did speedup code, made better reuse of memory and bandwith [10:57] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: then did wake up that missing prims ghost [10:57] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so i also seen them [10:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: solution was to downgrade udp efficience [10:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: send less information per packet, less than it could take [10:59] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: bf that, we just had to reduce the viewer bandwith to 500kbps or less [11:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well with that reduction on udp usage efficience im now here with that suicidal 3000kbps and don't notice any missing prims or terrain patchs [11:01] Sheera Khan: I'd have guessed that the higher level protocols would be responsible for lost packets, whether to ignore them or to force a resend [11:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so all points to a viewer side issue.. not new [11:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its not lost packets [11:02] Sheera Khan: I'm using full speed setting in network since quite some time... never had serious trouble with that [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: some of the prims are on the viewer.. just not rez [11:02] Sheera Khan: but then, I'm on a 100MBit/s download connection [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: some you click on their area and they show up [11:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: others never show up :) [11:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: fs also had that with attachments [11:04] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so guess viewers do get lost when we send things a bit faster [11:04] Sheera Khan: I always thought the 500 kBit/s rule was there bc of possible packet loss at higher rates [11:04] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah. but seems viewers also lose prims they did got and terrain [11:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well as i said the only "solution" i got was to reduce the rate of sending [11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: less information per udp packet [11:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: thx for that pgsql fix, i forgot to thank on the commit message [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no worries [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bitbucket announced today that they will completely remove support for Mercurial in a year [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so that will be REALLY interesting [11:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: oh? [11:08] Sheera Khan: Hi Leighton :-) [11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: wasn't HG the future replacement of git ? [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all viewer repositories must be converted to git [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or hosted elsewhere [11:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well guess not that hard [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to convert the repositories? [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: super hard [11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: oh ?? [11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ahh well all history etc etc of course [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly [11:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i was only thinking about the files :) [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the files are no problem [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the history.... [11:10] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: forgetting when i did mess up our git and had to run call mel for help :) [11:10] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or when by mistake i did restore 30000 Tags [11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: took HOURS to delete them again :) [11:11] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: with them git was just dead in water.. 2 slow [11:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in past ppl did add one tag per commit [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess I have to derender that barmaid again [11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: do we have server dis baking? [11:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: server side [11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: always see inventory errors on avatar items, no idea why [11:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no we do not have SSA [11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh i thought we did [11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: did we not have it before? [11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: thats another idea i never understud [11:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh? [11:15] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: unless they plan to have SL only on tablets and old phones [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is baked on the region, but the textures are sent to Robust where they can be retrieved for reuse [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: new phones and tablets run good with s/l [11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no it is not baked on region here [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well except master as it crashes Lumiya [11:16] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viewers do the bake as before [11:17] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Lumiya doesn have a rebake in the latest version [11:17] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: why waste servers cpu with twisted image processing when viewers can even have gpu help on that?? [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I agree Ubit and I meant the viewer does the baking [11:17] Sheera Khan: bc of copyright issues in SL ... everyone could salvage the individual textures from the cache before [11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and they can't now?? :P [11:18] Sheera Khan: now you only get a combined textue with everything mixed in [11:18] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not sure about that [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: like a baked texture? [11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and that's just a permissions issue [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: just?? [11:19] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: just not send base avatar textures except owner [11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in fact SSA needs to filter that also [11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so.. nahh copyright is not a issue [11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not that bake is only done by the avatar viewer [11:20] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not others [11:20] Sheera Khan: maybe I should have said content theft... [11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: the only dif is who makes the images combination.. avatar viewer or region... [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: now the protocol to handle bakes is a bit twisted.. [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: guess ll messed it up and just jumped way [11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: don't know lumiya issues :( [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it assumes SSB' [11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well not much i can do if they lose opensim support.. [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i could have sworn we had it or were supposed to get it [11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no never on plans.. [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well maybe opensim should do its part in supporeting the viewers that work with it [11:24] Sheera Khan: what was xbakes then? [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hmm maybe was before your time then Ubit\ [11:24] Kayaker Magic: What have I missed? [11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: xbakes is only bakes storage and distribution [11:25] Sheera Khan: I thought that was supposed to be the analogon of ssb [11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: bakes have own storage grid side IE xbakes [11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it achieves same end result [11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: there are more differences, not related to bakes on SSA [11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: like handling of visual parameters.. [11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: gavin did u looked to that baked meshes thing ll is working on ? [11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: sounds like 99.99% viewer side thing [11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: at avination we did had test system that did that [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I looked at it [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we had avatar bakes on mesh avatars on that test platform [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that was all [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)9 [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it requires a lot of changes backend as far as I can see [11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well viewer side guess its a "funny" thing :) [11:30] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: just another hack :) [11:31] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: from what i seen server side is at most to add a few textures with fixed uuids to dbs [11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seen they now suport a lot more textures per avatar also? [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in any case it is way down my list - sorry :-)) [11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well guess down on all viewers list [11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but sounds a nice feature [11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats on the top of your list? [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 64-bit viewer for Windows [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302 flüstert: and top of yours Ubit [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ? [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: convert 7500 BOOL in the macOS viewer [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what about an ios viewer Gavin? [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: compete with LL :) [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I wish, but you can't even think about it without having a metal renderer [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and the all the 7500 BOOLs must go [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only then can you start to use Apple libraries [11:35] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: BOOLs? [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL has used a (now) nonstanrdard version of the boolean [11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: btw kayker,, that Athena thing.. not sure but think there was a big talk about it in past.. [11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: def not a legit thing on opensim grids.. [11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or is it? [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whick class spectacularly with the BOOL in Objective-C [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone. Sorry I'm late. Started doing something for a few minutes and I lost track of the time. :P [11:37] Kayaker Magic: Yeah Andrew the same thing happened to me! [11:37] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: easily done Andrew [11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: good your cat was looking to irc :p [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and since all the Apple libs that work with C++ is basically written in Objective-C they cannot be used till this class is resolved [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Leighton, definitely. [11:37] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( plugh's cat.. remember him about meeting) [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: clash* [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, yes it was. ;) [11:38] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:38] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats not a legit thing [11:40] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and a hush falls over the crowd [11:41] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that Athena thing ? [11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what about it? [11:41] Kayaker Magic: I have been doing some testing of the EOC error messages from Warp3d: [11:41] Kayaker Magic: It only happens when Warp3D is making the map, using CSJ2K and only on certain textures. [11:41] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: its technically an orphaned mesh [11:41] Kayaker Magic: I did binary chopping to narrow it down to one texture. [11:42] Kayaker Magic: I can give Ubit an object that has that texture on it. [11:42] Kayaker Magic: But it happens on lots of different textures on different OARs I have. [11:43] Kayaker Magic: If I give Ubit a prim that has a texture that gets EOC in Warp3D, will it still do that when he copies it to another grid? [11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: then why keep using CSJ2K on those regions [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I certainly plan to never use it again. But I'm trying to help you track down those errors and log them properly. [11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in fact i may remove CSJ2K [11:45] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( like i said when i find why it was there in first place and still is ) [11:45] Kayaker Magic: I wonder if these "bad" textures are a bug in CSj2K or if they may cause problems in OpenJPEG also and we just don't see them. [11:46] Kayaker Magic: Another reason for not using CSJ2K is that Warp3D on my test region is about 10 times faster when I switch to OpenJPEG! [11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we already spoke about that last week [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Just saying. I've become a fan of OpenJPEG [11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: you are sure lumiya did remove opensim appearance code only doing sl SSA arielle.Popstar ? [11:49] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Has CSj2K been in OS from the start or was that added later to address some need? [11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: andrew do git blame :p [11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: in version 3.4.2 there is no rebake  button [11:50] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: 3.4.1 did i believe [11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well even last viewers to sl have rebake [11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It can be hard to tell item history as some of that was lost, or made harder to access, around the time of switching from 076 to 080, IIRC. [11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and button does not mean much about low level [11:51] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so xbakes has to be enabled on a region for ssb? [11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no [11:51] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: [XBakes] ;# {URL} {} {Set URL for Baked texture service} {} ;; Sets the URL for the baked texture ROBUST service. ;; Disabled when unset. ;; URL = ${Const|BaseURL}:${Const|PrivatePort} [11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: xbakes HAS to be enable :) [11:52] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: except on standalones possible [11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ? [11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i'm confused [11:53] Ubit Umarov: confused with what ? [11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i said it has to be enabled and you said it HAS to be enabled [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what are we debating then? [11:54] Ubit Umarov: no idea lol [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: that says to me that Opensim has SSB but you say it doesnt [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: which is it? [11:55] Ubit Umarov: as i said xbakes is a storage of last bakes, without is ppl need to rebake on all tps [11:55] Ubit Umarov: .. is a shared storage.. i meant [11:56] Ubit Umarov: on a TP the region checks if has valid baked textures on its cache, if not asks xbakes for them [11:56] Ubit Umarov: only if not found or outdated, it askes viewer to rebake them all again [11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok.... [11:57] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and thats different from normal SSB how? [11:57] Ubit Umarov: on SSB regions do the baking [11:57] Ubit Umarov: ( or a central service, no idea ) [11:58] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so other than the initial bake, it works the same? [11:58] Ubit Umarov: yeah more or less [11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so for the sake of one server side bake you are of the opinion it would be too much for an opensim server to handle? [12:00] Ubit Umarov: it something a bit heavy yes [12:00] Ubit Umarov: with minor returns, if any [12:00] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but it does do subsequent ssbakes? [12:01] Ubit Umarov: ?? [12:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: if the xbakers is enabled [12:01] Ubit Umarov: look.. if you tp to a new region, it will not have your bakes to send to all other avatars, right?? [12:02] Ubit Umarov: so it needs to get them from somewhere, with the minimal cost.. [12:02] Ubit Umarov: thats where xbakes does come in.. [12:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is that heavy on the server? [12:03] Ubit Umarov: it has its load.. [12:03] Bill Blight: just for clarity this subject started talking about SSA, server side appearance, SSB, server side baking, is not the same thing [12:04] Ubit Umarov: but a lot less than actually doing all lthe images processing [12:04] Ubit Umarov: that is well done by viewers [12:04] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: whats the difference Bill? [12:05] Bill Blight: SSB is just baked textures, SSA is the whole shebang [12:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ok well guess its not important [12:08] Ubit Umarov: not at the moment.. things seem to be working ok on that [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL just sent out a message they will make a plan on how to migrate the repositories to Git [12:08] Ubit Umarov: at least on viewers that keep proper opensim comp [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm thinking that SSA includes things like body shape that isn't part of SSB. [12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: guess that list will get smaller and smaller [12:09] Bill Blight: That is what I gathered, I assumed that people knew the difference between, textures and the rest of the appearance ... [12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: any plans on taking advantage of the Opensim only viewer forks? [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what do you mean Arielle? [12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: shrugs, the parts that can be seen is all textures i would have thought [12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well as an example FS now has the Opensim viewer fork. Seems to me we could now get some opensim specific changes [12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats we couldn't before [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which would be? [12:11] Ubit Umarov: yeah but fs as no opensim devs [12:12] Bill Blight: last change to that OS firestorm repo was 4 months ago, so they are not really jumping in to make changes [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have asked before, what opensim specific changes do you want? [12:12] Ubit Umarov: for now in pratical terms they just stopped opensim suport in time [12:12] Ubit Umarov: but lets see.. [12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: has Opensim asked themn to make any changes? [12:13] Ubit Umarov: only a few months ago they did look to issues that had the word "opensim"  filled back in 2015 [12:13] Ubit Umarov: and where also SL issues [12:14] Ubit Umarov: and the dev that did that was clear telling that will only due minimal fixes for opensim, not major changes [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I would think FS is unlikely to get OS specific features while there is still the version of FS for LL. The two versions would have to track each other to a certain extent. [12:14] Bill Blight: The biggest advantage, is the fact that there is a repo that is not going to get SL changes, so it does not break using it in openism .. [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [12:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: but neither will we get new features that s/l adopts [12:15] Bill Blight: http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl-os/ [12:15] Ubit Umarov: well if it gets any changes at all, is something to be seen [12:15] Bill Blight: yep [12:15] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so in effect Opensim becomes stagnated? [12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no [12:15] Ubit Umarov: we are talking about ONE viewer [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are probably tons of improvements to existing functionality that will spill over to the opensim version [12:16] Ubit Umarov: this region is running code to suport a change made by Singu [12:16] Ubit Umarov: ie the new estate access panel [12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but it does not work on regions that don't have it [12:17] Ubit Umarov: ie one of the last ll change, that we got via singularity suport [12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is useless in all old versions of opensim which most grids have [12:17] Ubit Umarov: singu does work gavin.Hird [12:17] Ubit Umarov: we have seen it here LOL [12:17] Bill Blight: I can name 3 viewers off the top of my head that are directly supporting opensim that are getting development, Dayturn, Singularity and one called Polarity .. [12:18] Ubit Umarov: we where testing it and Bill had forgotten to activate the new cap :) [12:18] Bill Blight: cap schmap [12:18] Bill Blight: :P [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tried singu in a region without the estate changes, and the estate panel was a complete mess [12:19] Ubit Umarov: just with lludp we don't see who did a bad and when [12:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so the new viewer is not compatible with old regions/ [12:19] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: ? [12:20] Ubit Umarov: ie while LL totally removed the lludp, Liru added glue to keep it working [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the build I tested failed, but it is very much work in progress that viewer at the moment [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Sing development is active again? It seemed to have mostly stopped for a long time. [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I would not judge it too hard [12:20] Ubit Umarov: ewll it is a alpha version of singu :) [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right [12:21] Bill Blight: Liru is pretty active, and NO not getting updated on the singu website [12:21] Ubit Umarov: i just used the bin 7766 from their repo [12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I was often using the alpha of Sing. [12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I still have 1.8.7 (6966) on my machine. [12:22] Ubit Umarov: so basicly Liru did add the new panel, keeping comp with older regions [12:22] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: here andrew https://virtual-nexus.xyz/down/ [12:23] Ubit Umarov: she did told me about it, shown me the code where to see the protocol, so i did add the new cap [12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, ty. Seems odd that those aren't available from the Singularity website. [12:24] Ubit Umarov: thats another prob with fs code split [12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: latest macOS build is from 07/23/2019 [12:24] Ubit Umarov: we do not suport sl features.. we suport some VIEWERs features [12:25] Ubit Umarov: so if some features never reach viewer usable in opensim.. we can't try to support it [12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's wrap up this meeting for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.