Chat log from the meeting on 2019-04-16

[11:00] Telehub: Welcome back to, Dev Outreach, Andrew Hellershanks.

[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew

[11:01] Bill Blight: Hello Andrew

[11:01] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Hello Andrew

[11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby

[11:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone

[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Selby.

[11:02] Bill Blight: Howdy Selby

[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Booo!

[11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker

[11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hello all!

[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker.

[11:05] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Hi Kayaker

[11:06] Kayaker Magic: Anyone know if Ubit can make it today?

[11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no idea

[11:06] Bill Blight: He'll be here I think

[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you can kick us off today. IIRC, you had two questions remaining from last weeks meeting.

[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know. A message was posted to the IRC channel.

[11:06] Kayaker Magic: heehe, I was kidding about having 6 questions last week. I have 3 left for today

[11:07] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002 whispers: hello everyone

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Arielle and Leighton

[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Hi Gavin, Hi Leighton

[11:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and Bill and Bob and Kayaker, Selby and Andrew

[11:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and Hi Royale

[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Arielle.

[11:09] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: hello

[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: We have been waiting a few moments to see if Ubit was going to join us.

[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Royale

[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he just logged

[11:09] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Arielle, Leighton, and everone

[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Just as I say that, he just logged in to the gird.

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: hi all, filling viewer cache..

[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Once he arrives you can start with the first of your two questions.

[11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Evening Ubit

[11:10] Kayaker Magic: EEeeeeyyyooooooobit!

[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Royale.

[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit.

[11:10] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: sorry about that

[11:10] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: cat stepped on my mouse lol

[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubot, Kayaker is going to start things off as he had two questions held back from last week.

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: oops questions for me?

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: well, possibly for you.

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Kayaker.

[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubot? :-)

[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh i like that..."Ubot"

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe

[11:11] Ubit Umarov: seems i have many names :p

[11:11] Kayaker Magic: When I build OpenSim, the build file scrolls by 1000s of lines and many of them say something about using mono/4.5 framework. What gives with that, when I have mono 5.10 installed on my Linux system?

[11:11] Bill Blight: I see a name for a new NPC brewing

[11:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: and all good !!

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: or possible none, like those arya friends

[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, :)

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: well she did kill one of them.. not much friends, right Bill ?

[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, is that when you are using msbuild to build OS?

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: it should be 4.6

[11:14] Kayaker Magic: No, I use xbuild,it whines that it is depricated, when I try msbuild it doesn't like the makefiles for OpenSim. Unless that has been fixed recenty?

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: mb time to update your mono ? :)

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: yes but xbuild still works

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying a build right now with msbuild and mono 5.20

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: But.. you can use msbuild now

[11:14] Bill Blight: xbuild does not understand newer mono

[11:14] Bill Blight: not really

[11:15] Kayaker Magic: I have the latest version of mono installed, 5.10 I think.

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: no longer works?

[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 5.18.1.3 is the latest stable

[11:15] Royale.Mobian @grid.mobiusgrid.us:8002: actually 5.20.1 is

[11:15] Kayaker Magic: I have not tried msbuild in a while, I'll give it a spin

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: wait i asked my cat to get out the front of my linux ssh term

[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: With xbuild I get an initial message that the xbuild tool is deprecated and no other messages of concern after that.

[11:16] Bill Blight: no, but it still does not understand .NET 4.6

[11:16] Ubit Umarov: well no reason to use xbuild now

[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Habit. ;)

[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 5.18.1.3 is the latest stable for use with VS. Otherwise 5.20.1 as you said

[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: It has been a few weeks since I last built OS. I don't remember if I have fully switched over to msbulid.

[11:17] Kayaker Magic: gog burned with msbuild, afraid to try it again

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: ...

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: .../Region/ScriptEngine/YEngine/MMRScriptCodeGen.cs   |  2 +-

OpenSim/Region/ScriptEngine/YEngine/XMRInstAbstract.cs | 36 +++++++++++---

5 files changed, 67 insertions(+), 42 deletions(-)

ld@LDLinuxBox:~/opensim$ msbuild /p:Configuration=Release

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: ...

[11:17] Bill Blight: /reference:/usr/lib/mono/4.6-api/System.Data.dll

[11:17] Bill Blight: with msbuild

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeap same here

[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I don't see any problems using xbuild.

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: ...

[11:18] Kayaker Magic: I am trying msbuild as we speak

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: /utf8output Clients/Grid/GridClient.cs Clients/InstantMessage/IMClient.cs Clients/Inventory/InventoryClient.cs Clients/Presence/PresenceClient.cs Clients/UserAccounts/UserAccountsClient.cs Server/DemonServer.cs "/tmp/.NETFramework,Version=v4.6.AssemblyAttributes.cs"

[11:18] Bill Blight: using outdated tools, kind of precludes any real debugging of issues, if it is not compiling right in the first place

[11:18] Bill Blight: because it runs does not mean it is right

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: Microsoft (R) Build Engine version 15.1.8.0 ( Wed Sep 5 19:32:44 UTC 2018) for Mono

Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: mono --version

Mono JIT compiler version 5.18.0.240 (tarball Wed Jan 16 09:10:58 UTC 2019)

Copyright (C) 2002-2014 Novell, Inc, Xamarin Inc and Contributors. www.mono-project.com

[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, That sounds like something you would read on a poster or T-shirt. :)

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: ok thats what i have.. also lazy on updates :)

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: do not forget to install the complete thing

[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: xbuild completed with no problems. Deprecation warning at start and report of 2 warnings in build summary.

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: https://www.mono-project.com/download/stable/

[11:20] Kayaker Magic: Always the complete thing.

[11:20] Bill Blight: yes Andrew but it is not building .net 4.6 truly

[11:20] Bill Blight: again, just because it builds does not mean it is right

[11:21] Kayaker Magic: I just checked, I have the same Mono that Ubit has! 15.18.0.240

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: oops The latest Stable Mono release is: 5.20.1 Stable (5.20.1.19)

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: my box is a boit outdated :)

[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I was just pointing out that there are no odd messages when using xbuild. I don't know why Kayaker would have some something out of the ordinary unless he was missing something.

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: and a bit

[11:22] Bill Blight: well it says it is depreciated, which should tell you that after the date of depreciation, it does not truly understand anything that came after ..

[11:22] Kayaker Magic: With msbuild I see this going by: /reference:/usr/lib/mono/4.6-api/mscorlib.dll  I could swear with xbuild it as 4.4

[11:22] Bill Blight: that is most likely true Kayaker

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: well msbuild is the thing to use now

[11:23] Bill Blight: Xbuild does not even know anything over I think 4.5 exists, so how could it use it

[11:23] Kayaker Magic: Yes, just finished building opensim with it, no warnings (thanks for that Ubit) and no errors.

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: well runtime errors are another story :)

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: ok that was one question.. any other?

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: ahh do use bin/opensim.sh to start it

[11:24] Kayaker Magic: What is mysqldataasset? Where is it?

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: or your own version of it

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: ( in linux i mean )

[11:25] Kayaker Magic: Looking at documentaion for LaNani's version, she says to delete that before switching to her branch.

[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I see 4.6 referenced when using either xbuild or msbuild.

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: her problem

[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: /reference:/usr/lib/mono/4.6-api//mscorlib.dll

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: her version.. her problem, go ask her

[11:26] Kayaker Magic: OK, but it existed before her version, so where did it exist?

[11:26] Kayaker Magic: Is this robust thing or a region thing?

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: it sets things needed for mono and starts opensim.exe

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: like the stack size for ubode

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: ( so you don't need to mess with ulimit etc etc )

[11:28] Kayaker Magic: mysqldataasset starts opensim.exe? I thought it was a database table?

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: ..but you may need to increase the value on the .sh on heavy regions

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: im talking about bin/opensim.sh

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: where had you seen mysqldataasset ?

[11:30] Kayaker Magic: You don't want to talk about it but apparently LaNani made changes to it from the Master version.

[11:31] Kayaker Magic: I just want to go look at it (before and after).

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well how do you want me to talk about her version ???

[11:31] Bill Blight: she added a mysql asset cache, which does not exist in master

[11:31] Kayaker Magic: Ah, ok. That is good to know.

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: next you are going to ask me about halcyon details also? :p

[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: :)

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: No, I'm good.

[11:32] Bill Blight: but since she does not share patches, only finished code, hard to even really examine it without running her whole version, so you would need to talk to her

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: or sl servers? :p

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Knowing it is not in your version explains why I cannot find it. Thank you.

[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: why isn't it in master?

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: yes arielle Phalox is not on master either.. go figure

[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because it is not needed?

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: Bahh :p

[11:33] Bill Blight: yeah not needed

[11:33] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: is it helpful?

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: seems phalox is helpfull for halcyin yes

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: phanlox?

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: whatever that thing..

[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: msql asset cache

[11:34] Bill Blight: but inversely if she created actual patches, it might be able to be tested , as it is now, with her version it is all or nothing

[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Phalic, I mean PhyloX

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: ok, whatever.. more opensim questions ?

[11:34] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: am assuming it wouldnt be hard to duplicate

[11:35] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Ubit..I see you recentlt commited a change to testure size used by warp3d. While in thta area of the code could you please take a look at mantis 7869 which is where warp3d flips textures east/west on the map

[11:35] Ubit Umarov: it flips ?

[11:35] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: yep

[11:35] Bill Blight: I don't see that with current warp

[11:36] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: I expalain in the mantis

[11:36] Ubit Umarov: yeap looking to this map i dont see that

[11:36] Bill Blight: that mantis is 3 years old

[11:36] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: yes

[11:36] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: can someone confirm on latest dev version if thats still wrong?

[11:36] Bill Blight: I don't see that, even had textures with text on them, and can read them fine when rendered with warp

[11:37] Bill Blight: so not flipped

[11:37] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: wierd

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: not sure that mantis is up to date with current warp3d

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: yeap not text does show fine

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: NOW

[11:37] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: when I wrote the mantis it flipped and still does on latest release I have now

[11:37] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: so been fixed since then?

[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: What release are you using?

[11:38] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: 9.0.0

[11:38] Ubit Umarov: oops that is old bob.Wellman

[11:38] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: yes Its the latest offical release

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: that world be 0.9.0.1 but also old now

[11:39] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: sorry I have 0.9.0.1

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: ok

[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but fixed in 0.9.1 dev which is not a release version yet

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: but warp3d changed a bit since then

[11:39] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: so that expalins it

[11:39] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: speaking of which.....

[11:39] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: fixed in next release

[11:39] Ubit Umarov: ppl now complain about how slow it is now :)

[11:40] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: thx Ubit

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: you can see this region map

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: to see how it looks now

[11:40] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: an trying to get a dev latest region running in my grid to test VOC

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: there is a way to get updated..

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: get osgrid bins..

[11:41] Bill Blight: https://i.gyazo.com/f2d4b6e7c4cf7ae2c47639ea41a55a76.png

[11:41] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: I have to upgrade my unbuntu/mono it seems

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: and replace the ini files by the example ones

[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Bob.Wellman, VOC?

[11:41] Bill Blight: image not flipped

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: then edit and fix to your case

[11:41] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Viewer Object Cache

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: its running here also

[11:42] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: tested it here and seems to work Ok but I have some heavy load sims to test on in Pmgrid to see the size of benefit

[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I have never experienced terrain flipping when using Warp3D with any version of code.

[11:42] Ubit Umarov: but this region is getting very outdated.. gezz 3 commits behind master

[11:42] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: not terrain flipping

[11:42] Ubit Umarov: hmm was terrain or prims ?

[11:42] Bill Blight: Hey I was napping, up all night

[11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: s/terrain/texture/

[11:42] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: texture on prim

[11:42] Bill Blight: that link shows a prim I just created, you can see it above

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: well warp should not do things right, including planar mapping

[11:43] Bill Blight: texture is not flipped

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: ...should NOW..

[11:43] Ubit Umarov: it just does not do ll vegetation :(

[11:43] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: well hello world looks fine

[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Typos are catching. ;)

[11:43] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: yes my typing is atrocious

[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, the thing they call trees?

[11:44] Bill Blight: yet he spells atrocious right

[11:44] Bill Blight: :P

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe

[11:44] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: lol

[11:44] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: I checked very very carefully that time

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: At least he isn't using autocorrect

[11:44] Bill Blight: No not sure why your textures are flipping bob

[11:45] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: can I ask another ting about the map

[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead

[11:45] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: does it handle wavws ok now too

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: wavws ?

[11:45] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: yes I have waves in the sea

[11:46] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: semi transparent prims with white wave texture

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: well not moving possible :p

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on older warps they look like yellow blobs

[11:46] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: the testure is animated to they rollin

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: well you need to test

[11:46] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: yep.. they do look yellow exatly

[11:46] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: is that still true?

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: map is also low resolution thing.. so no miracles

[11:47] Bill Blight: also depends on individual prim size as well, if they are not over the limit they don't get textured

[11:47] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: could animated textures be exclude from map

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: they will be used at zero state i guess

[11:47] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: just a thought

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think they should be animated on the map :-O

[11:47] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: lol

[11:47] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: if only

[11:48] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: missing would be fine

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: hmm i dont even look to animation data

[11:48] Ubit Umarov: they will be rez with the rotation and offsets on the prim

[11:48] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: an animated texture will never look right on a map

[11:48] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: as its only one frame

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: gezz don't remember how warp3d used to look now :)

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you might get a 4x4 animation map as the texture

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: in that case fix the prim rot and offsets

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: so stopped still looks something

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: ( ie now a texture with 4 parts etc )

[11:51] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: sorry if I have caused a problem guys

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: damm now my keyboard decided that not types as now and now types as not lol

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you spill coffee in it?

[11:52] Kayaker Magic: Oh, no need to apologise Bob, trouble is what we come here for!

[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Swap the w and t keys. :)

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: of course i did gavin.Hird

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: :)

[11:52] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: spares me causing it Bob :)\

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-;

[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Andrew, when can we expect another release?

[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I killed one completely with coffee 3 weeks ago

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: btw you need ask bill to put terrain here like it was to check dayt

[11:53] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: we are like way overdue

[11:54] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: must be feeding his cat :)

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: with the changes related to VOC some ppl now seem to see missing prims

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: reduce bandwidth in that case

[11:55] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: see missing prims?

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: hopefully less need with last changes

[11:55] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thats a bit of a contradictionb

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: no it is now

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: NOT

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: While he does, let me mention that the 64-bit macOS version of the viewer is finally out after a long standing crash in curl was sorted.

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that makes the road a 64-bit Windows build much shorter

[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is also a new build of the Windows version out today

[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at the usual place https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/

[11:56] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thx Gavin

[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yw

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: i still see damm fs killing aniwaht things when a nearby region closes, no idea why still

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: ahh you noticed that nearby regions visibilty now depends on view range and avatar position ?

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: you can test that here

[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IDK, their code is now quite different from mine

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: well not sititng :)

[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: This hour went quickly. Does someone have a question/topic to raise before people start leaving?

[11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: scroll up andrew

[11:59] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: Nice to meet you all

[11:59] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002: bye

[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye

[11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: tc Bob

[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Bob.

[11:59] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.outandproud.life:8002: tc bob

[11:59] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: scroll up Andrew. I asked a question

[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, Sorry. Missed it. I was distracted by my cat wanting attention.

[12:00] Kayaker Magic: When can we expect another release?

[12:00] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yes

[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't set the release schedule.

[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have a date for the next release.

[12:01] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well perhaps you could query those who do?

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: well master is having a few issues now

[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes. I will raise the question with the other core devs.

[12:01] Bill Blight: If I had a say, I'd say no new release until people quit spreading info on improper ways to set it up ..

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: so a release from it will need to wait for better stabilty

[12:02] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: been a lot added and sutrascted since the last one

[12:02] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well usually a prelease is the time to do that

[12:02] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: RC

[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you don't to a RC if it is not stable

[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is called beta at best

[12:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: perish that word!

[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe

[12:03] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: thing is there been a lot of changes since the last release

[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: agreed

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: ohh only a few things

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: andrew will doc them all

[12:04] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: going to be hard to stabilize  it if new code  just keeps getting  added

[12:04] Kayaker Magic: Bill, what improper ways? Or better yet what is the definitive word on the correct way to set up new versions of OpenSim?

[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tell that to LL too with the region crossing mess, haha

[12:05] Bill Blight: Oh things like, using Bullet's meshermizer with Ubode, not using new config files, just little things like that

[12:05] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: knew he was going to bring that up as an excuse

[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I will if I figure out what are all the changes.

[12:06] Bill Blight: not an excuse when it is actually a thing, it is a reality that some people spread BS

[12:06] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it works  as per my testing  for  well over a year

[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: others have also done so

[12:07] Bill Blight: works and works right, two different things

[12:07] Bill Blight: improper mass calculations just to name one

[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it works right for what i want it to do

[12:07] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it has no effect on your regions or grids so why worry?

[12:08] Bill Blight shakes head

[12:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: be happy i am using ubOde and consider it the best  Physics engine

[12:08] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: by a wide margin

[12:09] Bill Blight: but you are killing it's mass and volume calculations that are a big part of it by not using it's mesher

[12:09] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: well Bill, it doesnt seem to affect the performance of the sim

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: and few more little details.. whatever

[12:09] Bill Blight: I agree

[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other topic for today or will that do it for this meeting?

[12:10] Bill Blight: I'm still voting for not allowing the wrong mesher in future versions

[12:10] Bill Blight: I'm still voting for not allowing the wrong mesher in future versions

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: one of this days ill just make the meshm part of the engine, possible

[12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: control freaks

[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, it would be easy to check the mesher setting when the physics module starts.

[12:10] Bill Blight: more like running it like it was intended freaks

[12:10] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: how i run my regions is none of your business

[12:11] Bill Blight: then your bugs, and feature requests should be none of anybody elses either

[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: its a platform Bill

[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: what part of that are you not getting?

[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: At the least, it can throw some red text to warn people they are not using the approved combination of physics engine and mesher.

[12:11] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i dont do mantises do i

[12:11] Bill Blight: no but you spread plenty of BS

[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: no, sorry, i dont

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: yeah but telling everyone that using bullet meshm.. on ubode is the right thing to do is WRONG

[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i tell people how to fix stuff if it is broken for them

[12:12] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go -- bye all

[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: i said it  fixed  an issue for me

[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: tc, Selby.

[12:12] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: tc Selby

[12:12] Bill Blight: How about telling them to fix the mesh, instead of using it wrong

[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the motto should be "what happens on your grid, stays at your grid"

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: the stuff is broken, replace the stuff

[12:13] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: if they knew how to blender then that would be a possibility

[12:13] Bill Blight: exactly

[12:14] Arielle.Popstar @grid.hgluv.com:8302: you maybe ought to consider a little more for backward compatibility instead of scheming how you can break stuff

[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I think its time to call this meeting to a close.

[12:14] Bill Blight: How about you get out of the dark ages and move forward

[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.