Chat log from the meeting on 2013-04-30

[10:59] Teravus Ousley: greets [10:59] Now playing: Farbrausch - fr08 .the .product [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi everone [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, The stair climbing patch you did was for git master. I'd like to have that in 075PF but one of the BulletSim files patched in master doesn't exist in 075PF. [11:00] logger sewell: hey all [11:00] Robert Adams: which file is that, Andrew? [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, BSAvatarActorMove.cs [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi bluewall [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi [11:02] Robert Adams: Andrew, that probably means all the actor additions are missing... cherry picking might not be a solution [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, no, a cherry pick failed complete. One file that doesn't exist and rejects on all the other changes. [11:03] Robert Adams: a more radical solution would be to take the whole BulletSim tree and drop it in your system (Region/Physics/BulletSPlugin) [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Since the one file is missing I can't (at the moment) do a manual patch. [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I thought about doing that. [11:03] Robert Adams: BulletSim is fairly independent [11:03] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods [11:04] Robert Adams: remember to get the DLLs and SOs also... the C++ code changed also [11:04] Teravus Ousley: yay for physics separation [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, indeeed [11:04] Teravus Ousley: (there are some sizable challenges as a result of that separation.. but.. tradeoffs :)) [11:04] logger sewell: Hi Kayaker [11:04] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, everyone! [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Uhmm iis bullet working on linux ? [11:05] Robert Adams: Richardus, yes but there have been some library dependency problems on some Linux distributions [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, It works as well as BulletSim works. I did do a brief test un der Linux. [11:05] Fearghus McMahon: i got one region running with bulletsim on centos [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: ok. at some point i can check it. right now fighting with desktops :O [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, there was some thing missing that caused an issue with BulletSim use and Linux/mono [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza is running Bulletsim [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: well it would be opensuse here [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Linux Mint for me. [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: all of my regions are on OpenSuse [11:06] OtakuMegane Desu: It seems to mostly work when I'vtried it recently. Had to compile it myself though, CentOS 5 doesn't seem to like the default ones [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think there may be issues on 32 bit still Robert? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or was that fixed? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: always compile opensim on linux [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I could tell you. I'm only running 32-bit Linux [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably some of the native system libraries and the bullet dll? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: 32bit. who is useing that ^^ [11:07] OtakuMegane Desu: 32-bit is soo last decade. :P [11:07] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn uses 32-bit Linux. :) [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Bulletsim good on Fedora 32 and 64 bit [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: well It was broken on 64 bit, then Robert fixed that, and then after that reports came in that 32 bit was broken [11:07] Teravus Ousley: I have a virtual PC on my Mac that uses 32 bit :P [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: are you guys running master git? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: or latest OSgrid release? [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I am and will continue to do so until such time as you can run a 64-bit machine without need for any 32-bit libraries. [11:07] Fearghus McMahon: i've never compiled opensim onlinux yet...just using the osgrid download so far [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: this break was very recent [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: git master here [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: git master [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:08] Robert Adams: the glibc libraries have been getting updated recently but the newer version aren't in all distributions yet [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it probably got fixed [11:08] OtakuMegane Desu: I usually run master [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: most i run still 0.7.5 with one 0.7.6dev sandback. but running behind. still setting up things [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, which version of glibc? [11:08] Robert Adams: so I have to be careful about libraries needed [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some distros are slow to change [11:09] Robert Adams: glibc 2.14 has an updated memcpy.... most distributions don't have it yet [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some distros like OpenSuse 11.4 are no longer being updated [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... glibc or just glib? [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people could possibly build the bullet libs from source if they fail [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy for me to upgrade either [11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Debian Stable is often problematic in that fashion. [11:09] Robert Adams: there is also updates to glibcxx (to 3.9, I think) [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, will it compile on the older ones? [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: well soem hoster that stil serve r11.4 is running behind. start to work with 12,3 myself [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have glibc installed on my machine [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: how can i check wich clib is installed ? [11:11] Robert Adams: Bluewall, it does compile on the older ones... my problem is that my build environment keeps linking to the latest-and-greatest then the binaries don't work on the older distributions [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: uhh glib :O [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Robert, cool. I'm thinking about users's compilting it on their systems in case it fails [11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Rich: Your distro's package manager might tell you. [11:11] Fearghus McMahon: heya justin [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think most people dont' understand the way pinvoke works [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi feargus, folks. sorry I'm late [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:12] Robert Adams: Bluewall, that works and I know of some who have done that [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, then it's good that there is a workaround [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: <--- Materials Girl [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:14] Teravus Ousley: materials girl.. yes :) [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will those work on mesh avatars? [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Only glibc files I have are part of cross-compilers I have installed. [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: probably [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woot [11:14] Robert Adams: Justin, what is the state of SOP dynamic properties... are they completed and usable? [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: glibc v2.17-4.4.1 if i have the right one on opensuse 12.3 [11:14] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders why glibc isn't showing up in Synaptic. [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: I used them [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: they exist, but they may still need to change in response to actual usage [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, dahlia has taken the brave step [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: materials are stored there [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: however, I think any changes will probably relate to how data is stored retrieved rather than data formats [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: What sort of properties are dynamic? [11:15] Robert Adams: I was going to start using them to store extra physics properties (like user set center-of-mass) [11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: If you apply materials to a mesh avatar, you can't leave your sim, unless you want to reapply the materials every time you return to it or another materials enabled simulator. ;) [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: you can add a OSDMap to a SOP [11:16] Teravus Ousley: haha, anything you don't want to write a database connector and migration for? :D [11:16] Robert Adams: just wondered if you thought the design had settled down or whether they were about to change [11:16] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus, latest version should fix that [11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, Dahlia. :) [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think data format change would only occur if actual use found some significant problem with how it's being done at the moment [11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Are OARs/IARs working with materials too? I saw a commit regarding that. When I tested it, I couldn't get it to work, though. [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: only reason it's "experimental" now is that LL may change it, or if something is not working or changes in dynamic attributes [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: I think you could probably go ahead and use it [11:17] Dahlia Trimble: we need some rules about naming though [11:17] Robert Adams: are the dynamic properties serialized to the DB and OAR/IAR files? [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes. Though if they reference assets then those currently need code in UUIDGatherer to scan and collect them [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: which I want to make modularizable sometime soon [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: question, soemone fund it and i see it to. why does "land show" only display 252,252,0 as result. also scipt parcel divide seems to go wrong [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in what way are these different from prim properties? [11:18] Robert Adams: excellent [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: and maybe some rules enforcement, like in a script cant write anything that starts with 'OS:" [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: best not to store large chunks of data in them though. Largue chunks should probably remain in assets [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, that might be an idea [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: though I can also imagine an argument for allowing scripts to do that as a communicaton mechanism with modules [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6608 [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: then you get into the hairness about concurrency [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: ya but modules could read anything [11:20] Robert Adams: the JSONStore is the best inter-script comm system... it has changed events and locking and all that's needed for taht [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not a bug [11:20] Teravus Ousley: I know.. we should have comprehensive permissions trees on every node *wink* [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yeah, mic put in a hack to have the SOP dynattrs as the backing store for JSONStore [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: ? ok, justin... still weird.. [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: minimum land parcel square is 4 meters [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: but I see your point, so maybe it's something to consider [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: a scene-level DynAttrs would be kinda cool too :) *hint* [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: someone else found it. only note it. [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: melanie previous put in a key:value store for regions but that's structurally different [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I think a dynattrs for scene presence could also be a good idea too [11:22] Robert Adams: Dahlia, at which level? parcel, region, ?? [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: oh whats it called? [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: would allow npc stuff to be stored there, for instance, rather than in parallel data structures [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: at top level of the scene [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: something not tied to any object in the scene [11:23] Robert Adams: 'scene' as in OS simulator level? [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: yes [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: or region level [11:23] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley associates 'scene level' with Scene.cs in OpenSim.Region.Framework [11:23] Robert Adams: you can do that with JSONStore.... it can be used just as a named store that scripts can reference [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: I mean a persistant one [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: anyway I didnt really need it, just occured to me while doing the materials stuff that it might be a nice feature [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: look at GetExtraSetting, StoreExtraSetting, RemoveExtraSetting on Scene [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: ty [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I am wary of dynamic attributes. It makes things easier than changing the database but I think we need to watch for any efficiency issues [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and currently the need to lock the entire structure on any data change is pretty awkward [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could linq be used with all this? [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe if one were to write the required glue [11:28] Teravus Ousley: we don't really use much linq in opensim :) [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'm not an expert on it, I have just come across it a few times [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems like a way to make handling data generic [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: justin, what if the locks were in getters and setters? [11:29] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley uses it for querying object data collections in work.. but hasn't used it in OpenSimulator. [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: maybe for getting/setting an entire OSDMap, but that would still leave you vulnerable to concurrency issues of changing settings within the map [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: A while back we talked about upping the tools from 3.5 [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I will do that once the next Debian is released [11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Dahlia ran into an issue with default parameters that would have worked if we were on 4.0 [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: lol debian releases are rare [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, wikipedia is saying may 4th ot 5th 2013 :) [11:31] Teravus Ousley: Maybe, if instead of a single lock on that collection.. there's multiple lock spaces [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: yeah, I was thinking along those lines - wanted to see what it looked like under 'real' usage first [11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         3ce1981: 2013-04-29 22:21:57 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: another alternative is to have 'dynamic objects' instead of attributes [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which get serialized whenever the sop is seralized and deserialized when it's deserialized [11:33] Teravus Ousley: Early optimization is bad :) yes. [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I saw those but didnt know what they were [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that way modules, could deal with first class objects and we concurrency could be simpler, I think [11:33] Robert Adams: BulletSim will have one OSDMap with values that are updated by a region module based on script functions [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's more tomwards the entity:component approach I think [11:33] Teravus Ousley: If we really need to do something about it, we could always implement a 'first letter locking mechanism' hack that.. has a separate lock object for the first letter of the namespace [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: would any object need serialization methods? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I was thinking that modules could register for the ser/deser event and handle it however they like [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: oh [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: is that the way it works now? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they could choose how to use the data to reconstitute objects which they would add to a generic dictionary on sop [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: no [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment, on serializatio nwe simply use generic libomv code to serialized the OSDMap [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: I meant on the dynamic objects [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: haven't implemented it yet :) [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: oh thought I saw it in code [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not nice to do since it involves some adjustment of our existing serialized code [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: serialization code [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: there was DynAttrs and DynObjects [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, haven't completed DynObjects [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but DynAttrs would be continue to be valid [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: they would remain the persistent store [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: so when completed it would be backward compatible [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: oh so currently DynObjects stores System.Object references? [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: k [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I want to look at optimizatio nfor DynAttrs since having an extra DAMap for every SOP may not be trivial [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: if you have 40000 SOPS for instance, that's an extra 40000 DynAttr objects [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: probably would want an ICOmponent interface that defines a few methods like for serialization and message handling [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: would be better if they could be null if not used, but that's a little awkward to do I think [11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think OSDMaps use much space if unused [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I need to get a better sense of just how much memory is used by mono/.net oibjcts [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: never really delved into that space [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: but a null reference for a map might work [11:41] Teravus Ousley: It's fun to keep a lot of texture byte [] references around. [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: are byte [] references? [11:42] Teravus Ousley: The array is a reference [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: Ive seen them get borked when they fall out of a using scope [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, perhaps we should see if there are any other opensimulator questions for the remaining 20 mins [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody? [11:43] Teravus OusleyTeravus Ousley wakes up people [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I was able to confirm that objects rezed from tarash [11:44] logger sewell: Justin do have any idea when the 7.6 will be out ? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: err Trash* [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: I'm hioping to start the process soon but there are a few issues I want to look at first [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantisa bout llGetTime returning negative numbers and numbers in the past, but [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an item directly from your trash can, anyone who takes a copy the item goes back to trash can, this is impropper [11:44] Kayaker Magic: I'm waiting to try a newer Mono to see if that fixes it [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: like exactly why changing the thread pool makes certain issues with ghost avatars go away [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: that bug is very old nebadon. [11:44] logger sewell: ok thanks [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: back to the rezzer's trashcan? [11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative get time is pretty cool. That sounds like it may have something to do with Environment.Tickcount wraparound [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: actually I think it's a mono bug :) [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen that trashcan bug between 0.74 and 0.7.5 for first time [11:45] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, the negative time is always just about 3600 seconts in the past [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: the same one that was causing diva to see the sun jump around at regular intervals [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which was fixed in 2.10.6 or later I think [11:46] Teravus Ousley: oh, nifty.. and here I thought that was a joke that sdague was playing from before :) [11:46] Robert Adams: it's not April 1st [11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 [11:46] Kayaker Magic: I have mono 2.10.6, supposed to be fixed in 2.10.8 [11:46] Lani Global: Here is a curiosity... for most of this year, in my inventory, I often see items I created and gave away, but with other people's ownership. Perhaps that is related? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: no it seems to go to whoever takes its trash [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: even if I send them a copy [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to objects [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you [11:47] Teravus Ousley: Could be two things.. could be a stored folder.. or the 'delete object' routine is kicking in and sending it to trash [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: try taking a copy of that red box [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Is Mono 3.0 working with opensim now? [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: could you name it something other than primitive? :0 [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it went to "My Suitcase" [11:48] Fearghus McMahon: my regions run on mono 3.6 or 7 now i think Kayaker [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: there you go [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i have seen iand i think its something todo with the --profile --home option in iar / oar that perms got lost when you load it on other place. not sure if thats a bug with HG ? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: that is not surpising Bluewall. your HG [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: yes, I believe it works well, thuogh still not with the newer garbage collector [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything is forced to suitcase [11:48] Teravus Ousley: It ended up in lost and found [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I wanted to see if it would fail [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya it either goes to lost and found [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: or trash [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should never do either of those things [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should go to objects [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: same thing happens if I send this object to someone [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they cant find it [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I took a copy but it doesn't show up in my inventory [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: it appears in lost & found nebadon [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: something very wrong [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it should always go to Objects [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ok, what if you put it in a folder named "Stuff" and the revieving person has a folder named "Stuff" will it go there? [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: but i cant do anything with it. not delete not move [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... in Singularity 1.8.0 it shows up in Lost and Found for just a second then disappears. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I think something similar happens [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i use old astra [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if I rez an object from a folder in my inventory [11:50] Fearghus McMahon: kayaker, only issue i've had was teleporting out of my region would crash it sometimes...but that i have not seen yet with the latest osgrid release [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and then delete that folder [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: Astra Viewer 1.6.5 (3) [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: The red cube gets lost completely on a take. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya most of the time no one can find it [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: Does this also happen with a direct offer of inventory to another person? Is it only objects, or does it occur with other assets such as textures or clothing? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but it should be either in one of the 2 places [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i see it. but no control on it [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can't find it either. Inventory moves for a moment but then moves back [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have only seen this happen with items you can rez [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: objects [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this is only stuff retrieved back from trash? [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: It goes to L&F but then immediately disappears from that folder and a search doesn't turn it up anywhere in inventory. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: what starts it is i rez it directly from trash to ground [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then basically from that point on its ruined [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew. maby my viewer is buggy i still see it. but i think its gone [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: unless i move it to objects [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then rez it again [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that fixes it [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does sound like some last rezzed from inventory folder issue [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: I am almost certain its been this way for years [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just no ones really said anything about it [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but lately its really getting on my nerves [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: what if the reciever has a folder named the same as the one you take it from? [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I noticed that in Avination and said something about it there but it was supposed to be the "correct behaviour" [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think that matters [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: because its all UUID references [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: none of our rountines rely on folder naming [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the uuids would never match [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: to land back in trash. [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from some iar/oar commands [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe it is looking for "Trash" here, but then goes to "My Suitcase" [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think whats happening is the lastfolder uuid is not found [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: so it sends it to lost and found [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: which is wrong [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i think i mentoined that problems month ago already. or soemthing like that. only never seen it so bad as now [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i am assuming its called lastfolder [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea how we reference that [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, probably that should get set back to UUID.Zero which I think would trigger it to go in the correct 'type' folder [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: didnt dig that deep [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. Objects for objects [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Perhaps it is looking for the trash folder based on the UUID of the owner who rezzed it and a folder by the same name may exist in someone elses inventory but they would have a different UUID [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds sane Justin [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, though that wouldn't work for the original rezzer [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so possibly there needs to be code to ignore the last folder if the user is not the object 'owner' [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: well nothing you ever take or receive should ever automatically go to lost and found or trash [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: not ever [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: it would be good if opensim looks what type of object ,texture, photo, objetc and put it there for the new owner [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: only time that happens is if you decline [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: it gets moved there [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise objects should always go to Objects folder no matter what [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: btw, did you get any further with setting avatar properties via llSetLinkParams and similar? [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not much, I have looked into it a couple of times [11:57] Lani Global: I've seen many things I take or copy go to Lost and Found [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I might get a chance myself soon, though it's queued behind a bunch of other things [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: don't want to tread on any work you may already have done [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see you have mode several things to support it [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: mode? [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have only looked so far [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ohh, "made" [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I did clean up a bunch of stuff when doing the get portion [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: e.g. common routines to get the avatar correctly for a given link number [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think you have some methods to get SEO [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lists of them [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: search engine optimization? [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Scene Entity Obj [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I was thinking search engine optimization :-) [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, you mena sop :) [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the base [12:00] Teravus Ousley: right, the base type [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, ISceneEntity and similar [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes, that [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: our horrific crappy interface hiearchy :) [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: @.@ [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go eat. Thanks for the meeting, folks [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that works, but what I didn't want to do is check everything coming through there to from a bottleneck [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Loger, do you know what version of Mono is running on VH? [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thank you JCC [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: bon appetit Justin [12:01] Robert Adams: bye all [12:01] Teravus Ousley: byese [12:01] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: c ya robert [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Robert, thanks [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, if 076 is "coming soon", I might as well wait instead of dropping BS from master in to 075PF [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I just also confirmed [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if you rez an object from a folder [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: then delete that folder [12:02] Lani Global: thank you Justin! [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and take a copy of that item it goes to trash or lost and found also [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: major borkage [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no wonder this is happening so much [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that makes sense [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I mean, it shouldn't do that [12:03] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Dahlia: the latest group offerings have group chat working, provided your all on the same sim. That was tested in a HG ebvironment [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but at least it's a repro