Chat log from the meeting on 2018-07-17

Summary: - 28 avatars at a party on 0.9.X running smoothly - How many triangles on a mesh are acceptable? - Clarification on a git commit log entry: "add options for regions to ignore age < 18 and payment access control where they don't apply" - Opensim services with IPv6 addresses causing trouble [11:04] Sheera Khan: I just saw your post at g+ about your party the other day... but too early for me I had just gotten up and fired up my computer for a breakfast session^^ [11:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: We topped out at 28 avatars on the region, and the sim never even hiccuped, all the visitors said it was running fine .... So not sure where people have said ".9x can't handle more than a few avatars" [11:07] Ubit Umarov: i was on one of those pics :) [11:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Yes we had 28 but might as well say 108 because Ubit was one of them, and not even he crashed it ... LOL [11:09] Ubit Umarov: i was just sitting eating popcorn [11:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I saw you dancing on a table once, but I'm sure it was by accident [11:09] Ubit Umarov: and listining to SG [11:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I don't sleep much, and want to do euro timed events as well, just getting them arranged seems to be the issue [11:12] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: They are tricky and not well attended but we will try to change that :) [11:12] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: spent all night last night working on reviving the web store with Hippo Finesmith [11:15] Ubit Umarov: so.. did andrew officially started the meeting? :) [11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: not sure, I was just jabbering till someone brought up a subject [11:16] Sheera Khan: a question regarding mesh: working in Blender most tutorials advise to use quads... but for a specific project I'ld need quite a lot of triangles. There is nothing wrong using triangles with respect to the opensim server and viewer, right? Quads are just better suited for texturing and modelling, right? [11:16] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: It's going to get triangulated on upload anyway [11:16] Ubit Umarov: opensim only works with triangles [11:16] Ubit Umarov: so do viewers i think [11:16] Ubit Umarov: i mean the collada import [11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have found the fewer triangles you start with, by using quads the fewer you end up with in world [11:17] Ubit Umarov: you can work with quads on blender, but need to convert to tris bc export ( or on export ) [11:17] Ubit Umarov: i guess [11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, I got here a few minutes past the hour and Bill was talking about something. I thought you started without me. :) [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you may risk that triangulated mesh is triangulate again on upload [11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: nope we were just rambling [11:18] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yeah what gavin said [11:18] Sheera Khan: well, the tail I spoke about earlier is made out of quite a lot of narrow tris ... [11:18] Ubit Umarov: no andrew i usually try to end meetings.. sometimes even bf you start them :p [11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: We can consider the meeting started. [11:20] Sheera Khan: does by chance anyone know how many tris Ruth is composed of? [11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: a lot less than those "other" mesh bodies sheera [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ruth 1 or 2? [11:22] Ubit Umarov: there is a model of it for blender.. don't remeber the numbers ( i mean ruth ) [11:22] Ubit Umarov: ruth Ruth not ruth [11:23] Ubit Umarov: or it it ruth ruth not Ruth? [11:23] Sheera Khan: well, I'll look it up... was in google already but didn't find the answer that quick... [11:23] Ubit Umarov: but the main thing about ruth ruth is that is is there on all viewers disks [11:23] Ubit Umarov: no downloads.. [11:24] Sheera Khan: and yes, Bill, that was what I wanted to avoid... a mesh tail killing the region or viewer with its amount of tris^^ [11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: https://github.com/Outworldz/Ruth [11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: grab it from the github and load it up [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it probably had every hairstrand made of a sculpt [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that's a real killer [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have a Ruth 2 model that is a little over 45,000 triangles. [11:28] Sheera Khan: Some mesh clothes are insanely dense with their geometry - in wireframe mode they still look solid^^ [11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My Ruth 2 is the file that came from that repo. [11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It has several variations. [11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: without the head it is right at 24k [11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: oops 45 k [11:29] Ubit Umarov: loaded a old model, 9000 tris, 5500 verts [11:30] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: looked at the wrong number [11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: 45,848 [11:30] Ubit Umarov: its called default rigged avatar :) [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the old one could shad quite a few verts if the hair geometry that nobody use any more was deleted [11:31] Ubit Umarov: the one on old avatar workbench has 7200 faces and 3700 verts [11:32] Ubit Umarov: and does look like ruth [11:33] Ubit Umarov: so yeah.. a bit lighter and already downloaded for all :p [11:33] Sheera Khan: Phew... that's really low poly .. [11:34] Ubit Umarov: no ideia why a few more complex models where not just added to viewers [11:34] Ubit Umarov: well i have a few guesses why not.. [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It is designed for a 2003 graphics card [11:34] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: so was the opengl the viewers use [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah :-)) [11:38] Ubit Umarov: ok bill do yr dance thing.. ppl fallen asleep again [11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: haha [11:38] George Equus: not sleeping... just overwhelmed by heat [11:38] Ubit Umarov: yeah that 2 :) [11:39] George Equus: can't go outside during day [11:39] Ubit Umarov: no no dance is not for you andrew we want ppl to awakeup not to run away.. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: ( well that line was more correct for MisterBlue.. but he is not here :) ) [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There was a commit to Master "add options for regions to ignore age < 18 and payment access control where they don't apply"- How is that going to work exactly? [11:40] Sheera Khan: we could rez some poledancers from Paramour ^^ [11:40] George Equus: not in 100F (35C)! [11:40] Ubit Umarov: you set those options and those access controls are ignored.. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: thats the idea at least [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I meant what is meant by "they don't apply"? [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: set where? [11:41] Ubit Umarov: on opensim.ini [11:41] Ubit Umarov: session.. something :) [11:42] Ubit Umarov: ( don't remember lol ) [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there an update to the example file yet? [11:42] Ubit Umarov: don't apply means where you don't have grid side setting of those gavin.Hird [11:42] Ubit Umarov: you may want the pay info active on comercial grids for exaple [11:43] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes the example inis were updated [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but who is ignoring it? [11:43] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: there are places that rent regions that don't verify age and region owners have been setting it, and no one but them can get to their regions [11:43] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: so they wanted an option to disable the check [11:44] Ubit Umarov: or even adult if you allow kids to get in but, don't want them on some regions AND have grid side setting of adult flag [11:44] Ubit Umarov: the region access control code gavin [11:44] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: personally would not disable them as they could have their uses [11:45] Ubit Umarov: so.. OPTIONS lol [11:45] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: they still default to not being ignored [11:45] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: so no changes for those that don't care or use them [11:45] Ubit Umarov: yes.. options :p [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:46] Ubit Umarov: that default to previous behavour [11:46] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:46] Ubit Umarov: guess i still did not made them visible on ini files ... not sure [11:46] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: pretty sure you did [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it seems to me that any sensible grid owner would set a policy for their grid and every region would have to stick to it [11:46] Ubit Umarov: ok [11:47] Ubit Umarov: yes gavin [11:48] Ubit Umarov: just another option... only to reduce some confusion on using that in regions/grids where DBS default to no payment info and minor [11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: well I thought you did [11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: not seeing the commit [11:48] Ubit Umarov: and then users set the restriction.. [11:48] Ubit Umarov: i did another one Bill.Blight [11:48] Ubit Umarov: i mean another settings update [11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=519d320e3cea8f404e9f6a3effbc13af9941e3c6 [11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes that one [11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and [11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commit&p=opensim&h=d7a919507871077666cfb3bac247935e2f76345a [11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: oops wrong one [11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: s [11:50] Ubit Umarov: well i had those options code getting dust on my disk.. :) [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:51] Ubit Umarov: still have some more code, but more tricky [11:51] Ubit Umarov: changes in dbs code.. inventory services... etc [11:51] Ubit Umarov: ( not dbs formats i think ) [11:52] Ubit Umarov: also serialization of things.. [11:52] Ubit Umarov: inventory things.. [11:52] Ubit Umarov: getting a full inv does seem a bit faster with those changes [11:52] Ubit Umarov: and moving items to Trash [11:53] Ubit Umarov: something that is a fail on some versions [11:53] Ubit Umarov: ie try delete 600 items from a inventory folder.. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: ( dance harder bill... ) [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any other issue for todays meeting before we hit the top of the hour? [11:55] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Just an observation: [11:56] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: IPv6 is really killing it at times! [11:56] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: nods @ Sheera [11:56] Ubit Umarov: opensim does support ipv6 and will smoke with it [11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yep [11:57] Ubit Umarov: guess viewers also [11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Bill had debugged an issue with HG visitors coming to a grid where some URLs have an IPv6 address too [11:57] Ubit Umarov: guess their dns had ipv6 answers [11:57] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: would it be a possibility to ignore the IPv6 addresses completely in the viewers and on the server side? [11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if you have a IPV6 dns record, and the source machine has an IPV6 address it will try to use that, and cause issues [11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: not if there is DNS resolution [11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: that comes from the root operating system [11:58] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I had problems until I disabled IPv6 on my server. [11:58] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: teleports would time out and now they are working again. Phew. [11:59] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the issue is not just IPV6 is the the fact when you have IPV6 names mapped to your opensimulator servers [11:59] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: DNS delivers both addresses, IPv4 as well as IPv6. Could the viewer or the server simply ignore the IPv6 one and just use IPv4? [11:59] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it returns the address that the operating system asks for, not both at the same time [12:00] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: the simpler solution would be for grids not to use IPv6 addresses [12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if your system has both types of addresses it may round robin and work sometimes [12:00] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: for Opensimulator any way [12:01] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if the request for the name comes from an IPV6 enabled system and there is an IPV6 address available, chances are that is what is going to return. [12:01] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I agree with you there, we'ld be better off not having an AAAA-Resource record, but alas, we have for now :-( [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not going to be categorical, but I don't thin the viewers have any IPv6  support at all [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the curl library used must have [12:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I think you may be correct gavin, but have not dug in or tested it [12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but not sure I care enough to dig into it ... LOL [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the simplest fix is not having ipv6 mapped to opensim services, [12:05] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: well, in our case that's what will be done... but I think of quite a lot of home users who already have IPv6... [12:05] Ubit Umarov: guess issue cames when there are also web services with same FQNS [12:05] Ubit Umarov: and ppl want web on ipv4 [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the curl lib has CURL_IPRESOLVE_V4 set [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so no IPV6 support enabled [12:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but just because an end user is on IPV6 does not mean they can't access ipv4 addresses .. [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actully that is t in llcurl.cpp and not in the library [12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: that is all handled by the edge routers [12:07] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: hmmm, should the resolver then return an IPv6? [12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: you don't want services that don't support IPV6 on IPV6, pretty simple [12:08] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ;-) [12:08] Ubit Umarov: ( guess that was .. on ipv4 )