Chat log from the meeting on 2008-09-09

[10:04] You: say list [10:04] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [10:04] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 0 [10:14] Teravus Ousley is Online [10:14] You: hello [10:14] You: say list [10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch [10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley [10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 2 [10:15] You: hello [10:15] Teravus Ousley: Heya nebadon.. am I early? [10:15] You: heh no earlier than i am [10:15]  You: :P [10:15] Harrison Partch: hey teravus remember me? [10:16] You: but yea we have a good 45 minutes [10:16] You: i just restarted everything though [10:16] You: were all set [10:16] Teravus Ousley: No, I don't remember who you are Harrison. I'm a loony.. of course I remember who you are. [10:16] Harrison Partch: you have real avatars now. [10:16] You: heh yea [10:16] Harrison Partch: how can i ditch this ruth? [10:17] You: you just have to create a new shape in your inventory [10:17] Harrison Partch: i wanna be a furry like in sl [10:17]  You: then wear it [10:17]  Teravus Ousley: unfortunately, a lightning thing took out one of my computers and.. well that was that [10:17] You: ah, well at this point its roll your own avatars [10:17] You: hehe [10:17] Harrison Partch: k [10:17]  You: this suit im wearing is a modified version of a female suit of armor my group sells in SL [10:18]  Harrison Partch: i think i am almost ready to take on a sim of my own. [10:18] You: i ported the basics over with Second Inventory [10:18] You: then redid it here in opensim for male avatar [10:18] Harrison Partch: ready in intention. maybe not in expertise. [10:18] Harrison Partch: Second Inventory. Aha. Sounds useful. [10:18] You: yea its a blessing and a curse [10:18] You: hehe [10:19] Teravus Ousley: something tells me that fountain is on a bit too high.. you need to lower the strength of the water a bit [10:19] You: the sound? [10:19] Harrison Partch: i must do a google on it then. [10:19] Teravus Ousley: no.. [10:19] Teravus Ousley: Just .. the water is going outside of the fountain. [10:19] You: lol [10:19] Harrison Partch: this server seems to run faster than SL [10:20]  Harrison Partch: prolly cause few people here [10:20] You: yea there isnt much going on here either though really [10:20] Harrison Partch: k I gots another question [10:20] You: though it does run quite well for what is here [10:20] You: and for how far along opensim is [10:20]  Harrison Partch: i want to start a sim for a particular purpose. [10:21] Harrison Partch: So that certain people can meet and build and decorate and, mostly, talk [10:21] Harrison Partch: people who now post on certain sites [10:22] Harrison Partch: sites which discuss subjects which would be against SL terms of service [10:22] You: what subjects are against TOS? [10:23] Harrison Partch: racial nationalism [10:23] Harrison Partch: for instance [10:23] Harrison Partch: question: can we join our sim to the grid but institute controls [10:24] Harrison Partch: so that noone can wander in by mistake to be offended? [10:24] You: hmm i dont think so [10:24]  You: can we Ter? [10:24] You: out permissions system is pretty limited [10:24] Harrison Partch: i would need a standalone sime then. [10:25] Teravus Ousley: well, technically as long as the grid allows it.. you can do parcel bans. [10:25] You: eventually we will be able to [10:25]  You: hmm yea we do allow that [10:25] Teravus Ousley: Some grids may not allow that though [10:25] You: i didnt think it worked though [10:25] Teravus Ousley: it's a policy [10:25] Harrison Partch: see, myself, i would not likely offend anyone [10:25] Harrison Partch: but you can't control users [10:25] Harrison Partch: so i would like to have a lot of privacy [10:25] You: can you do a wide ban that prevents everyone access [10:26] You: accpet a white list [10:26] You: ? [10:26] You: is that possible Ter? [10:26] Harrison Partch: and then we'll need to moderate heavily and kick people out [10:26] Teravus Ousley: I don't think so.. ckrinke was 'eh' on it .. so I didn't bother implementing it right now [10:26] You: yea [10:26] Harrison Partch: to prevent disruption [10:26] You: id like to have it myself [10:26] You: so i can build without interuption [10:26] You: people going over borders while i build kills me [10:27]  Harrison Partch: i like that duck who made it? [10:27] You: i did [10:27] You: hehe [10:27] You: its copy [10:27] Harrison Partch: what was that import program called? [10:27] You: second inventory [10:27] You: its sort of limited [10:27] You: you can only do stuff you have full perms on [10:27]  You: alot of textures still dont make it [10:28]  You: you cant do multi object items [10:28] You: only single objects [10:28] You: sometimes its almost easier to just start over [10:28] Harrison Partch: i would prefer voxels to polys. [10:28] Harrison Partch: did you know i write voxel raytracers obsessively? [10:28] You: heh, i think i remember you now [10:29] You: your the voxel guy [10:29] You: lol [10:29] Teravus Ousley: yep [10:29] You: hehe [10:29] Teravus Ousley: you aught to work on a voxel based client [10:29] Harrison Partch: hey, if you make me a furry av here i will pay you in SL [10:29]  Harrison Partch: I have been thinking about it [10:29]  You: heh, i dont have the time to be honest [10:30] You: i spend every waking moment testing opensim and keeping this grid running [10:30] You: hehe [10:30] Harrison Partch: how about just some avatar not this stupid ruth thing? [10:30] Teravus Ousley: I'm tossed between working.. and working on OpenSim also.. so not likely for me. [10:30] Harrison Partch: i can build one i know and i should. [10:30] You: yea its not hard [10:30] Teravus Ousley was implementing attachments and made this [10:30] You: check over in freebie garden [10:30] You: i made a pose stand [10:30] You: that works proper [10:30] Harrison Partch: eve use qavimator? [10:30] You: yea [10:31] You: not good [10:31] You: but ive used it [10:31]  You: hehe [10:31] Harrison Partch: i have tried it but never imported bvh to SL [10:31]  Teravus Ousley prefers poser [10:31] You: yea poser is much better [10:31] You: qavimator is good for free though [10:31] You: the animations are not real fluid though [10:31] You: unless you spend a month [10:31] Teravus Ousley got poser free during the 5.0 free deal last year.. it was free for 30 days [10:32] You: heh nice [10:32] Warin Cascabel: Good $TIME_OF_DAY. [10:32] You: i havent used poser in a while [10:32] You: hehe hello Warin [10:32] Teravus Ousley: 6.0 was the latest at the time.. for a little while.. so they had a 1 month promotion on 5.0 [10:32] Harrison Partch: poser s commercial i see [10:32] You: yea [10:32] You: its not cheap either [10:32] You: student version is cheap [10:32] Harrison Partch: i use all open stuff [10:32] You: its like 79$ [10:32] Harrison Partch: on linux [10:33] You: ah yea [10:33] You: no poser on linux [10:33] Warin Cascabel: Might run under Wine, unless there's copy-protection. [10:33] You: there likely is [10:33]  Warin Cascabel: I used to use Animation:Master, but neither the disk-based nor HASP copy-protection would work. [10:33] You: some kind of protection [10:34] You: atleast poser 7 anyway [10:34] You: not sure about earlier versions [10:34] Harrison Partch: http://www.youtube.com/user/xenopusRTRT [10:34] Teravus Ousley: yeah, I doubt it.. it makes use of lots of funky windows stuff that probably wouldn't work stupendiously on WINE [10:34] Harrison Partch: some voxel stuff to annoy you [10:34] You: yea [10:35] You: the poser interface is far from standard too [10:35] Teravus Ousley: True.. it isn't.. but some say it's easier then .. blender [10:35] You: heh yea [10:35] Warin Cascabel: Hahaha. [10:35] You: i can agree with that [10:35] Harrison Partch: well, OK. I will do more research on getting a server. Then if the region privacy stuff isn't implemented soon enough I can run standalone. [10:35] You: blender is like a bad dream [10:35] You: where your falling [10:35] You: with no bottom [10:36] Teravus Ousley: blender is difinately.. 'different'. But cool in it's own way [10:36] Harrison Partch: I like you guys. You are programmers. [10:36] Warin Cascabel: No, no, no - it's like a fantastic dream where you're surrounded by everything you ever wanted... but you try to get to it and end up miles away from where you were trying to reach. [10:36] You: hehe [10:36] Harrison Partch: Can blender be used for bvh animations? [10:36] You: hmm [10:36] You: im not sure [10:36] You: its likely there is some path from blender to bvh [10:36] Teravus Ousley: I'm not sure.. but I doubt it.. it was more designed to be a modeler then an animator [10:36] Warin Cascabel: I'm fairly sure it can, but I haven't tried it yet. [10:36] You: wether it be direct or through conversion [10:36] Warin Cascabel: ... [10:37]  Teravus Ousley: maybe some plugin will let you... *shrugs* [10:37] Warin Cascabel: Teravus, you need to check out where blender is *now*. It's definitely an animator now. [10:37] Harrison Partch: ok i should run it has been refreshing to talk. [10:37] Teravus Ousley: oh? hehe [10:37] Harrison Partch: l8r allig8rs [10:37] Warin Cascabel: Here... a short animation produced entirely with Blender: http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/ [10:37] Teravus Ousley last used the version where they were just implementing tablet drawing on mesh models [10:38] Teravus Ousley: unfortunately.. sculpties didn't really accept the resolution I wanted to do my 'clay shaping' in [10:39] Teravus Ousley: It was always orders of magnitudes less detailed then I wanted it to be :D [10:39] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, sculpties are pretty limited... unless you use lots of them and blend them seamlessly. [10:39] You: yea [10:39] You: sculpty was never intented to replace whole linksets [10:39] You: just give them more definition [10:39] Warin Cascabel: Still, they're a nice addition to the toolbox. [10:39] You: yea [10:39] You: i think theres more efficient ways though [10:40] You: good for now [10:40] Warin Cascabel: I still haven't worked out how to get razor-sharp edges like I've seen with them. Like your staircases in the freebie garden, Nebadon. [10:40] Teravus Ousley: yeah.. at the moment.. they're best done procedurally.. [10:40] You: i made those with a free sculpt tool [10:40] You: hehe [10:40] Warin Cascabel: Bah, it figures. [10:41] Teravus Ousley: a procedural tool can factor in every last vertex and shape it into something nifty and easy to texture [10:41] You: http://www.xs4all.nl/~elout/sculptpaint/ [10:41] You: but [10:41] You: i prefer tatara for things besides stairs [10:41] Warin Cascabel: Nifty, thanks. [10:41] You: http://kanae.net/secondlife/tatara.html [10:42] Teravus Ousley: I made a flower.. but the darn java program froze more times then it actually produced something reasonable [10:42] You: yea [10:42] You: sculpt paint is a pain in the ass [10:42] Warin Cascabel: Heh. [10:42] Warin Cascabel: Blender and I have achieved an uneasy understanding of each other. [10:42] You: hehe [10:43] Teravus Ousley: well, for what I use it for now.. it's pretty easy to use [10:43] You: i need to learn mroe about the basics of blender [10:43] Warin Cascabel: They've actually done a lot of good work on documenting. [10:43] Teravus Ousley: .. visualizing the output of prim-->mesh in physics for OpenSimulator [10:43] Warin Cascabel: Their tutorials actually pertain to the current version now... [10:43] Teravus Ousley: haha [10:43] Warin Cascabel: First time I tried to learn Blender, their tutorials were all for a previous version, and about half the keystrokes and parameter locations had changed. [10:44] UUID Speaker: Warin Cascabel, your key is 190482f8-b1bc-4c36-aa8d-cfb36c8fea61 [10:46] Warin Cascabel: Reading #opensim-dev, I'm really glad I migrated to MySQL... [10:46]  Teravus Ousley: Hi! [10:46] Warin Cascabel: Hello! [10:46] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. gestures work? [10:46] Warin Cascabel: I wasn't watching... try it again? [10:46] You: i dont think so [10:46]  You: only locally [10:47] You: i dont think we will see or hear the gesture [10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:47] Warin Cascabel: I saw the text, but nothing else. [10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:47] Teravus Ousley: I typed [10:47] Teravus Ousley: haha.. / aw [10:47] Teravus Ousley made the trigger '/ aw' [10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:48] Warin Cascabel: Is there any sound or animation with that gesture? [10:48] Warin Cascabel: Or just the text? [10:48] Teravus Ousley: no, just the text so far.. [10:48] Warin Cascabel: Oh. Well, in that case, it worked. :) [10:49] You: cool [10:49]  You: thats a start [10:49]  You: hehe [10:49]  Warin Cascabel: Heh. [10:49]  You: now i can make my spam shout [10:49]  You: lol [10:49]  Warin Cascabel: Wheee. :) [10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:49] Teravus Ousley: do you see me autographing? [10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:49] You: do again [10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:49] You: wasnt looking [10:50] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:50] Warin Cascabel: Yes, I saw it. [10:50] You: yea [10:50] Teravus Ousley: ok.. so we at least have text and animations [10:50] You: cool [10:50] You: wonder when that started working [10:50] Warin Cascabel: /gesture [10:50] Warin Cascabel: bah. [10:50] Warin Cascabel: Hmph, doesn't seem to be working for me. [10:51] You: probably the animation prioroty [10:51] You: thats still aproblem i think [10:51] You: only certain priority animations seem to work proper [10:51] Warin Cascabel: Ah. [10:51] You: the highest prioroty ones [10:51] You: not quite sure why [10:52] You: i havent had much desire to chase it [10:52]  You: kind of low priority [10:52] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, far too many other things on the plate. [10:52] You: yea theres many things that i could probably mantis, but have held off on it [10:52]  You: because its such a low prioroty [10:53] Warin Cascabel: I'm trying to figure out how to get the region sun parameters working right, because I'm tired of having to go in and set up my sun every time I restart. [10:53] Warin Cascabel: Not to mention the trial-and-error to get it where I want it. [10:53] You: yea [10:54] Warin Cascabel: This probably isn't the easiest project to try and learn C# for, though. [10:54] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:54] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture [10:54] Teravus Ousley didn't hear the audio [10:54] Warin Cascabel: Nope, no audio here. [10:54] You: yea same [10:54] You: nothin [10:55] Warin Cascabel: Then again, I didn't even hear typing until I'd been here for about ten minutes. [10:55] Teravus Ousley gave you test. [10:55] You: heh [10:55] Warin Cascabel: LOL [10:55] Chris D is Online [10:55] Neas Bade is Online [10:55] You: that was me [10:55]  You: i hit play in world [10:55] You: did you hear it? [10:56] Teravus Ousley: nope [10:56] You: hmm [10:56] Teravus Ousley: just play locally [10:56] You: i did [10:56] Warin Cascabel: I heard it when I played it locally. [10:56] Primitive whispers: booting up sound orb. [10:56] Primitive whispers: bootup complete. [10:56] Warin Cascabel: Odd... if I try to play a sound in world, I don't hear it. [10:56] Teravus Ousley: I heard that one [10:56] You: hehe [10:56] You: yea this is scripted [10:57] You: lol [10:57] Primitive whispers: playing sound [10:57] Primitive whispers: Stoping sound [10:57] You: shutUP [10:57] You: lol [10:57] Warin Cascabel: Heh. [10:57] Teravus Ousley: haha [10:57] Neas Bade: oh no, movie voices [10:57] You: lol [10:57] You: heh your invisible still for me [10:57]  You: no cloud of gas either [10:57] You: oh [10:57]  You: and there you are [10:57] Teravus Ousley: I see Mr Neas [10:57] Chris D is Offline [10:58] You: yea just became visible for me [10:58]  Teravus Ousley: otherwise known as S-Dog.... [10:58] Neas Bade: still had to rebake [10:58] You: all i saw was hovering name before [10:58] You: ahh [10:58] Neas Bade: :) [10:58]  You: say list [10:58]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [10:58]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch [10:58]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley [10:58]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel [10:58]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven [10:58]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade [10:58]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 5 [10:58]  Warin Cascabel: I usually see a hovering name until I move my camera close to it. Then I see the person. [10:58]  Chris D is Online [10:58]  You: yea i didnt move cam [10:58]  You: its been static [10:59]  You: i setup a bigger area upstairs [10:59]  You: with more couches [10:59]  You: dunno if anyone else is coming though [10:59]  You: hehe [10:59]  Charles Krinkeb is Online [10:59]  Charles Krinkeb: morning [10:59]  You: things seem to be alot more stable here under Xengine [10:59]  You: morning charlesa [10:59] Teravus Ousley: so apparently gestures work for text exclaimations and animations [11:00] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Charles [11:00] You: charles [11:00] Neas Bade: hey charles [11:00] Teravus Ousley shouts: HI! [11:00] Neas Bade: man, the sound is warbly today [11:00] Whump Linden: Hey. [11:00] Charles Krinkeb: Question if i may. Justin made a change over the weekend that *might* help the "new user request denied". Has the frequency gone down or remained the same? [11:00] Warin Cascabel: Howdy. [11:00] You: hello Whump [11:00] Neas Bade: I'm also getting crap fps [11:00] Neas Bade: only 8 [11:01] Teravus Ousley: Hello there bill [11:01] You: not sure Charles [11:01] You: i can say Wright Plaza has not stopped accepting logins [11:01] Warin Cascabel: Hadn't noticed, Charles, sorry. [11:01] You: but Zaius did [11:01] You: once or twice [11:01] Neas Bade: it's nice that couches are working [11:01] You: yea [11:01] Whump Linden: Teravus: we deployed the fix for content type to sim1.vaak. [11:02] BlueWall Slade is Online [11:02] You: i have more couches upstairs [11:02] You: we could move [11:02] Teravus Ousley: Whump: any issues as a result [11:02] Neas Bade: man, there is too much cool detail on WP [11:02]  Charles Krinkeb: No problem. Since Whump is here, maybe we should start with a discussion of interop and how we can help move that forward now that Teravus has so kindly put Zha's patch into svn. [11:02] Teravus Ousley: ? [11:02] Neas Bade: I have to turn quality of graphics down to get good fps :) [11:02]  Whump Linden: Not to my knowledge, but we're monitoring. [11:02]  Teravus Ousley: excellent :D [11:03]  Teravus Ousley: I didn't expect there would be.. but who knows.. :D [11:03]  Neas Bade: hmmm, typing animation seems stuck [11:03]  Warin Cascabel: Neas: Do you have another instance of the viewer hanging around in your task list? That's an issue I ran into last week, which really dragged down my fps. [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online [11:03]  Neas Bade: not that I know of [11:03]  Whump Linden: Thanks Charles, so yesterday we started a discussion of what it would take to get OGP running in grid mode. And that folks have alread been experimenting with it. [11:03]  You: say list [11:03]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [11:03]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch [11:03]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D [11:03]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey [11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 10 [11:03] Neas Bade: yeh, nope [11:03] Charles Krinkeb: Is sim1.vaak a standalone, Whump? And a follow up question, "Are there sims on OSGrid that we can expect to be running with OGP enabled sometime?" [11:04] You: hello Justin [11:04] Neas Bade: hey justing [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks, hello nebadon [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neas [11:04] You: hehe [11:04] Neas Bade: hey, Ter, I've been going through the hurliman patch to sqlite, and it seems to really have cratered things [11:04] Torrance Miles is Online [11:04] Whump Linden: sim1.vaak is connected to other regions on vaak. [11:05] Teravus Ousley: ah. Well then we'll have to investigate why. It was cratered for mySQL also.. but I went through and fixed quite a bit [11:05] Neas Bade: I just fixed embedded inventory, but I'm curious if you know some places that you were unsure in applying things that might make me smoothing out the issues go faster [11:05] Chris D: Fermi, Dirac, Pauli and Bohr are all running with OGP enabled. [11:05] Whump Linden: but you can only OGP tp from the region on vaak that you rez on. [11:05] Teravus Ousley: It's the same with gridmode here.. [11:05] You: and you can OGP to osgrid from Linden Beta? [11:05] Neas Bade: I get a sim crash on prim save now it looks like. I need to dig a bit more [11:05] Whump Linden: but that's the case on any OGP region at the moment. [11:06] Kurt Stringer is Online [11:06] Teravus Ousley: .. you can only OGP out of the region you OGP'ed in on. [11:06] Whump Linden: let me spin up another viewer and see if I can rez on Fermi [11:06] You: ah [11:06]  Teravus Ousley: and.. it works across instances. [11:06] Charles Krinkeb: Are there any issues in running OGP on your regions, ChrisD? Would you recommend I run it on my regions, for instance? [11:06] Teravus Ousley: ... but teleporting out .. you must be on the same instance of OpenSim.exe [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Charles [11:06] Teravus Ousley: any region within that instance will do. [11:07] Charles Krinkeb: hi, justin. great to see you again. [11:07] BlueWall Slade: it's not enabled per-region, but per-simulator [11:07] Teravus Ousley: Well, it's a shared module [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: you too - I'm still attuned to pacific time so I've only just had lunch [11:07] Neas Bade: heh [11:07] Chris D: Dirac is theregion that you need to rez on. The problem is it is above the 4096 limit :( http://dirac.vworlds.co.uk:9000 [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yet it's 8pm in the evening... [11:07]  Teravus Ousley: .. so you turn it on.. and it works for all regions.. though it'll find a random one to put you in. [11:08]  Whump Linden: Yes, that's a concern. I'm going to have to see what can be done in the viewer about that bug. [11:08]  Charles Krinkeb: which brings up an interesting administrative point. In talking with folks, I believe we will keep this "Office Hour" at 1900UTC when the US goes off daylight savings time for the Winter. [11:09]  Teravus Ousley: Yeah. I put a note on that bug.. asking if it was really closed.. because unfortunately it'll become an issue probably within the next two years. [11:09]  Charles Krinkeb: SDague. FYI. I believe Nebadon has set this region to xengine recently. [11:09]  You: yes [11:09]  You: but OS functions work [11:10] You: i made sure of that [11:10] Primitive: Script running [11:10] Teravus Ousley: So, a couple of options.. [11:10] Teravus Ousley: We could.. have inventory working in OGP.. But.. there's a few caviots.. [11:10] Teravus Ousley: caveots.. [11:10] Teravus Ousley: 1.. that isn't speced yet.. [11:10] Whump Linden: Okay, I rezzed with OGP on Dirac. [11:10] Teravus Ousley: so, likely it'll change.. and you may loose stuff [11:11] Teravus Ousley: 2. In grid mode, that will require that you trust your regions to create grid accounts [11:12] Teravus Ousley: 2 could be mitigated by putting the OGP service also in the user server. [11:12] Charles Krinkeb: Are those caveats appropriate for a wiki paragraph on opensimulator.org to guide folks in using OGP? [11:12] Teravus Ousley: not yet really.. just discussing some of the potential directions for the future. [11:12] Whump Linden: and probably 3. this may all change [11:12] OpenSim Agenda Board: Agenda - OGP Status - libopenmv hot spots - 0.6 release status?

[11:13] Teravus Ousley: ahh, yes.. reiterating number 1 :D [11:13] Charles Krinkeb: Personally, I would say getting the teleport details worked out without inventory stuff is to our advantage at this time. [11:13] Whump Linden: / interesting, I flew off the edge of dirac [11:13] Teravus Ousley: Yes. agreed.. though.. There are not really too many issues with teleporting yet.. [11:14] Teravus Ousley: err.. anymore.. and people are starting to get frustrated.. antsy :D [11:14] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe to a region not running OGP, Whump? [11:14] BlueWall Slade: can we have inventory on our "home" grid, and forego it on excurssions to other grids? [11:14] Chris D: You should be able to cross into Fermi, Pauli and Bohr [11:14] Teravus Ousley: nah, you should be able to succesfully cross into a region not running OGP [11:14] Whump Linden: Chris D: Dirac appeared as a stand alone region [11:14] Whump Linden: were it's neighbours up? [11:15] Teravus Ousley: ping? [11:15] You: lol [11:15] You: mic test [11:15] You: 1 2 1 2 [11:15] You: sibelance [11:15] Neas Bade: I was just wating for the end of the OGP stuff :) [11:15]  You: :D [11:16]  Whump Linden: k [11:17]  Charles Krinkeb: Any more OGP discussion? Should we move on but allow questions later as we expand the agenda? [11:17]  Whump Linden: So at the moment we know that Teleport works. As you run into issues and create mantises for them, can you create an accompanying JIRA? [11:17]  Teravus Ousley: hmm.. Whump.. I'm not sure if you can do this.. however it's been requested that the client attempt to connect to the region with a UUID given to it by the OGP service. [11:17]  Neas Bade: well, in parallel, as we can multithread here, are there common hotspots that happened iwth libopenmv inclusion that we should be looking for in fixing code? [11:17]  Teravus Ousley: .. as opposed to the Aditi UUID [11:17]  Chris D: Jusr checking [11:17]  Charles Krinkeb: Do we need someone to be the focus for joint Mantis/Jira issues and if so, who should it be? [11:17] Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:18] Teravus Ousley: Neas. Look for things missing.UUID, and .Guid [11:18] Neas Bade: I think Ter is our man here [11:18] Neas Bade: on the OGP front [11:18] Neas Bade: Ter, yeh that is what broke embedded inventory [11:18] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe ChrisD can help Teravus on testing reports and wiki if Chris has the time. [11:18] Neas Bade: prim.ToString instead of prim.UUID.ToString [11:18] Teravus Ousley: honestly.. the thing that was the most common that I fixed.. was missing .UUID [11:19] You: wright plaza stats : Show Stats = 328mb 14 agents [11:19] Neas Bade: so why were all the .UUID stuff stripped? [11:19] Teravus Ousley: A search and replace failure by Mr H [11:19]  Chris D: Whump: All regions are up and I have successfully logged in via OGP and crossed regions. [11:19] Whump Linden: Teravus, let's discuss in IRC after the meeting. I'm not sure what all that would affect. [11:19] Teravus Ousley: kk [11:19]  Neas Bade: sigh [11:19] Charles Krinkeb: Afternoon, Mic. Welcome. [11:19] Mic Bowman: hello [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, seeing some interesting NREs on the user service [11:19] You: top shows 998 virt / 848 res / 45% cpu [11:19] Teravus Ousley: Hey Mic [11:20] Mic Bowman: hey teravus... [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Mic [11:20] You: i think thats 45% of 1 core though [11:20] Neas Bade: ok, unfortunately from my sniff test this morning, that means our default mode with sqlite is really broken [11:20] Neas Bade: I'll putter on fixing it as I have time [11:20] Mic Bowman: the couple of fixes i've had to make post-OMV were on some implicit casts that didn't get caught [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are you using top? [11:20] You: yea its running [11:20] Neas Bade: Mic, it's worse than that [11:20] Mic Bowman: i've been running the OMV code now for quite a while [11:21] Mic Bowman: with only minor problems [11:21] Neas Bade: Mic, not with sqlite :) [11:21]  Mic Bowman: i can believe that... [11:21]  Neas Bade: unless you've got something way different than that is in tree [11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you might want to try htop on wp [11:21]  Mic Bowman: well.. i do have something different than the tree... but not *that* much different [11:21]  Mic Bowman: and no i don't touch sqlite [11:21]  You: top is running on the WP server [11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's a slightly more colourfil version of top which breaks cpu usage down via the cores [11:21]  You: those stats were for this server [11:22]  You: ah [11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: htop also exists on wp - I installed iy myself [11:22]  Mic Bowman: something like that :-) [11:22] You: well i see 45% on mono [11:22] You: but 22% on main cpu [11:22] Neas Bade: well, sqlite is still our default mode, so it is a bit frustrating that the patch wasn't tested on it [11:22]  You: so i can only assume its 1 core [11:22] You: its a core2 [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: You can get top to break things down per core as well [11:22] You: yea i did that on accident before [11:22] You: but couldnt figure out how i did it [11:22]  You: hehe [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: nabdon: press 1 [11:23] You: k cool [11:23] Charles Krinkeb: SDague: Would you recommend we continue to test a combination of MySQL and SQLite on OSGrid in the future on various regions? [11:23] You: nice [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, sqlite needs afixing... [11:23]  Teravus Ousley: well, most of the issues I fixed were in the grid server. It seemed to work ok in standalone for me. [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: puzzling that it broke [11:23] Teravus Ousley: A few in grid comms.. [11:23] Neas Bade: if we are going to leave sqlite as the default, then we should run it somewhere on osgrid [11:23] Teravus Ousley: Put the custom types back in for remoting [11:24] You: i thought charles was primarlity running sqlite [11:24] You: im sure alot of people are [11:24] Neas Bade: I just fixed embedded inventory, however something in content save path takes down the whole sim [11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Ok. I am running SQLite on all my personal regions. I believe all the plazas are MySQL now. [11:24] You: id wager 50% of the grid is sqlite [11:24] Neas Bade: which means it will run fine, until you try to rez something new [11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Could this have some bearing on the intermittent reports of inventory disappearing? [11:24] Neas Bade: then you break hard [11:24] Neas Bade: charles, yeh, maybe [11:24] You: my understanding about that [11:24] Richardus Raymaker is Offline [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: charlies: it might do, if by that people mean that they can't rez stuff.... [11:25] You: is that if you cross over into a region with local assets [11:25] Neas Bade: embedded inventory was completely gone until the last commit [11:25] You: your grid inventory gets whacked [11:25] You: ive had it happen [11:25] You: eventually it recovers [11:25] Chris D: That happens with MySQL as well (inventory breakage) [11:25] Neas Bade: as the select criterai for prim items was wrong [11:25] You: but there will be a period of confusion [11:25] You: mixing of grid and local assets is a total disaster right now [11:25] Mic Bowman: francis just stepped in... has anyone tried the patch we put in 2026(?) [11:25] Teravus Ousley: haha, was selecting for the name of the type instead of the UUID, right? :D [11:25] Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:25] Mic Bowman: for intenveotry cache? [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: well, this is the inevitible period of fixing things after the libomv patch I guess :) [11:25]  Charles Krinkeb: SDague and other core developers: "It has been suggested that local assets be discouraged or disabled in gridmode by a few folks?" What do you think? [11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would have to strongly +1 that, but you know my opinion :) [11:26] You: i can tell you right now [11:26] Teravus Ousley: I would agree.. we need tests on both regions [11:26] You: if you cross from a grid asset region [11:26] Teravus Ousley: err.. both fronts [11:26] You: with attaachments [11:26] You: into local asset region [11:26] You: kiss your attachments goodbye for ever [11:26] Richardus Raymaker is Offline [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: forever?! [11:26] You: and theres a high chance your inventory will die too [11:26] You: yes [11:26] Charles Krinkeb: Does that mean we should work on fixing local assets in grid mode to help the project along? [11:26] You: i have had dozens of assets lost [11:26] You: cant wear them anymore [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: so even on a relog things are broken? [11:26] Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:26] You: cant rez them [11:26] You: nothing [11:27] You: only option has been to erase them [11:27] You: and start over [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmmmm, U [11:27]  Teravus Ousley: haha, good thing I made multiple copies of my attachments! [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess attachment stuff does craete new assets... [11:27] You: yea i have mine all backed up now [11:27] You: and i stopped crossing borders [11:27] You: for this very reason [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and if those are saved into the local region then you're going to be bolloxed [11:27] You: its unsafe [11:27] You: i only cross borders in my own regions [11:27] You: and thats it [11:28]  Charles Krinkeb: Originally, we were encouraging local assets in gridmode so that folks could have confidence they had all their assets on their own hard disk, but it sounds like we have a side-effect now. [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: we could still achieve that [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: by havnig a persistent local asset cache.... [11:28] You: also [11:28] You: someone running local assets [11:28] You: if you clear your cache [11:28] You: and log into a neighbor [11:28] Teravus Ousley: a long long time ago.. I can still remember when they used to make me smile.. [11:28] You: you cant see any textures or sculpty in their sim [11:28] You: uless you log directly into it [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yep [11:29] You: also bad [11:29] You: very very bad [11:29] You: lots of problems with local assets on grid [11:29] You: im currently discouraging it [11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: that explain soms grey region somewhere posisble [11:29] You: yes [11:29] You: thats is why [11:29] Teravus Ousley: well, at some point we should be keeping track of the user's grid servers.. [11:29] You: there are many [11:29] Teravus Ousley: and use that for assets for that user.. [11:29] Charles Krinkeb: I would say if someone decided to use local assets to protect their work, that they should accept side effects. But, we might want to wiki the "side-effects". [11:30] You: there is no protecting your stuff on osgrid [11:30] You: i can proclaim that [11:30] You: 100% [11:30] Chris D: The problem is oother are suffering the side effects [11:30] You: local assets or not [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: only protection copy it someway as backup to hdd [11:30] Chris D: save-oar [11:30] Warin Cascabel: The "side-effects" include destroying other people's attachments... and not everybody reads the wiki. [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: yup. thats one. SI works sometimes too [11:30] Teravus Ousley: hehe.. keep a copy of your db/sqldump [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: I think that would be less of a porblem if their region was a separate island [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: and wasn't directly contiguous with other regions [11:31] You: yea thats what im telling people [11:31] You: if you want local assets [11:31] You: move far far way from mainland [11:31] Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps we can make the rule that our mainland needs to be all gridassets and local assets should go off somewhere other then 10000,10000. [11:31] You: there is no way to enforce that [11:31] BlueWall Slade: is there something like save-oar for inventory? [11:31] Chris D needs to persuade Taoki to move to grid assets before I rebuild my inventory [11:31] You: CHris [11:31] You: she is moving [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: not yet, but it is in plan, sortof [11:31] Whump Linden: something like a private estate model? [11:31] You: dont worry about it [11:32]  You: she will move her island [11:32] Charles Krinkeb: We could at least make our recommended configuration for our mainland, perhaps. [11:32] You: before she fixes it [11:32]  You: until she fixes it [11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: charles: sounds reasonable to me [11:32]  Chris D: :) [11:32]  Teravus Ousley: haha, well there's the other thing.. 10000,10000 is represented in scientific notation in the client.. which means that these huge positions are really not supported currently [11:32]  You: in our OSgrid release [11:32]  You: of opensim [11:32]  You: it is [11:32]  You: infact i put new version up last night [11:32]  Charles Krinkeb: BTW. The mini-map shows a region that looks like the Microsoft logo to our south where Taoki used to have her main sim. [11:32]  BlueWall Slade: maybe the grid server can ask ethe region server a question about whigh asset mode it is using? [11:32]  You: also our example configuration is already set for grid assets [11:33]  You: on the instructions page [11:33]  Charles Krinkeb: got it, Nebadon. Sounds like you are covering the bases, good job. [11:34] Neas Bade: ok, so we should also talk about 0.6 [11:34] Neas Bade: I think [11:34] You: i think making local assets work better on grids with grid assets would bringe some more stability [11:34] You: i think alot of problems recently [11:34] You: are due to this [11:34] You: inventory issues [11:34] Charles Krinkeb: However the idea of the gridserver having a dialog with the region for local assets might be a 0.6 or 0.6+ feature worth considering? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: how would that help? [11:35] You: alot of peoples inventory are getting hosed [11:35] Teravus Ousley: well it would implement a 'grid policy' [11:35] You: on daily basis justin [11:35] BlueWall Slade: yes, i think that the grid server should be able to enforce policies like that [11:35] You: crossing into these regions [11:35] Charles Krinkeb: A config to control a grid policy of some sort? [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: francis and mic are looking at some inventory issues at the moment [11:35] You: yes [11:35] Teravus Ousley: We have one for parcel banlists currently [11:35] You: thats the issue [11:35] Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: ah I see - yes, that could be worth pursuing [11:35] You: it definatly correlates to local asset regions [11:35] Charles Krinkeb: just and idea. [11:35] You: and crossing or coming near them even [11:35] Neas Bade: I think that's past 0.6 though [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: can the grid policy have also some permisison p [olice for objects ? one that overrule the region one. [11:36] Neas Bade: honestly, I think we should try to clean up the rest of the libopenmv breaks and get us back to release state [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: Hey everybody [11:36] Hiro Protagonist: sorry to be late [11:36] Charles Krinkeb: With that in mind: "What do we need to do to get to a 0.6 release and how far away do we think it might be?" [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately one cannot completely overrule a region, since anybody can just change their region code [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: hi hiro [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I agree [11:36] Neas Bade: well, we either need to get sqlite fixed [11:36] Neas Bade: or deprecate it, if everyone is using mysql anyway :) [11:36]  You: heh [11:37]  BlueWall Slade: it could just refuse connection with a message that local asset regions are not allowed ot that they have to reside in a certain location on the grid [11:37]  You: i could certainly live without sqlite [11:37]  You: hehe [11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I think we want to retain sqlite./ How badly is it broken? [11:37]  Teravus Ousley: I think we want to retain sqlite [11:37]  You: yea its proper to keep it [11:37]  Neas Bade: I sould definitely use Mic & JHurliman's help sorting out some of the breaks [11:37]  You: no doubt [11:37]  Charles Krinkeb: All my personal regions are running sqlite and dotnetengine, but I will go with the group decision. [11:37]  You: mysql has big learning curve [11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: neas: is it all inventory related? [11:37]  Neas Bade: well, right now it takes out the sim after trying to rez something [11:37] Neas Bade: nope [11:37] Whump Linden: / yes, for people wanting to get up and running fast, Sqlite is a big win. [11:37] Neas Bade: not inventory releated at all that I can see [11:38] BlueWall Slade: SQLite++ [11:38] Neas Bade: there may be breaks there as well [11:38] Neas Bade: but right now I'm still getting tripped up by region store [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: oh.. but it no longer manifests in mysql I presume? [11:38] BlueWall Slade: we have a well defined upgrade path to other Db's from it [11:38]  Teravus Ousley: Neas.. one way to do it is to clean out your DBs and open a sqlite3 database in the sqlite3 tool and check out the UUIDs .. to ensure that they are indeed uuids instead of type names [11:38] You: yea the transition from sqlite to mysql here went super smooth [11:38] You: could not have gone better [11:38] You: on Wright Plaza that is [11:39]  Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:39] Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:39] BlueWall Slade: i don't know how "well known" the steps aer to most new userse though? [11:39] You: yea probably not [11:39] You: the most reliable method is a app on the forge [11:39] Hiro Protagonist: I was just about to comment on the sqlite thing when my viewer crashed [11:39] You: though save-oar / load-oar might work for you too [11:39] You: it may not still though [11:40] Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:40] You: ouch hiro is crashy todya [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I would appreciate any reports about remaining bugs [11:40] You: ok for me its been great [11:40] Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: though I'm not sure how much time I'm going to have to work on things before the weekend [11:40] You: but i dont want to over promise just yet [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: absolutely [11:40] Hiro Protagonist: whew, again LOL [11:40] Hiro Protagonist: why do we need sqlite? [11:40] BlueWall Slade: they work 100% for me, but i have low prim regions [11:40] Teravus Ousley: justin-cc, yes.. that is also the issue for me. [11:41] BlueWall Slade: noobs [11:41] Teravus Ousley: Hiro: easy, fast setup [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus: ah, isn't having to work for a living the most annoying thing ;) [11:41]  Teravus Ousley: alas [11:41]  Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:41]  Charles Krinkeb: boy, thats for sure. [11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: /shake [11:41]  Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:42]  Torrance Miles is Offline [11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: hiro is up and down like a hoor's drawers today [11:42]  You: yea that sucks [11:42]  BlueWall Slade: lol [11:42]  Teravus Ousley: technically.. I do like my job though.. [11:42]  You: maybe isp issues [11:42]  Hiro Protagonist: lol Jcc [11:42]  Hiro Protagonist: nah, just flaky client today [11:42]  Hiro Protagonist: before I crash again... [11:42]  Hiro Protagonist: what does pandering to newbs get us? [11:42]  Teravus Ousley: easy setup [11:42]  Charles Krinkeb: Just an FYI, I am running across an EVDO Cellular modem on the laptop from my office. [11:42] You: less support [11:42] You: lol [11:43] Hiro Protagonist: why is easy setup important? [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: The democratization of the virtual [11:43] Teravus Ousley: Because it's quick to set-up a region [11:43] Hiro Protagonist: I dont see it as less support tbh [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: because people with real talent are often not techies? :) [11:43] Kurt Stringer: lol [11:43]  Hiro Protagonist: it may be on the front end, but once the user has established a region, it almost always turns to trouble [11:43]  Teravus Ousley: .. I know that generally I use SQLite for demos and things where I won't have a mySQL server available [11:43]  You: yea the WAMP i use [11:43]  BlueWall Slade: SQLite makes a good standalone "workstation" too [11:43]  You: i can have mysql working in 3 minutes [11:44]  You: less [11:44]  Neas Bade: yep agreed [11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, easy setup doesn't end with initial configuration... [11:44]  Hiro Protagonist: precisely Neb [11:44]  Hiro Protagonist: I just dont buy it that mysql has a high barrier to entry [11:44]  You: but [11:44]  You: on linux [11:44]  You: mysql is not so easy [11:44]  You: not nearly so [11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think it;'s more awkward on windows [11:44]  You: really [11:44] Neas Bade: so, some help from people in getting things working with sqlite would be appreciated [11:44] You: heh [11:44] Kurt Stringer: heh, I found it easier on Linux [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, it's tres tres easy on mysql [11:44] Warin Cascabel: Depends on the distro, Nebadon. [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: i dont have problems to inbstall mysql on linux [11:44] You: yea tru [11:44] You: distro matters [11:44] eaglefx Binder: yes it is very easy in Linux [11:44] Teravus Ousley: Yes. It's also a forced dependency if we take out SQLite [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, on Ubuntu [11:44] You: with the wamp i use [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: windows is not so difficult with xampp [11:45] Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:45] You: it has dev users already setup [11:45] BlueWall Slade: depends on your preference [11:45] You: so i dont have to use root out of box [11:45] Chris D: I setup a new test region with MySql today and setting up the initial DB tokk about 2 minutes max. [11:45] Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:45] You: i use a Development Wamp [11:45] You: its very easy [11:45] You: already preconfigured [11:45] Charles Krinkeb: Do we have a consensus that we *are* supporting SQLite and need to help make it more functional? [11:45] Teravus Ousley: I personally vote -1 for removing sqlite completely [11:45] Chris D uses Webmin on Linux [11:45] Whump Linden: / Mac OS ships with Sqlite. MySQL is a package installer. FYI [11:45] You: yea i dont support removing it [11:45]  You: even though id love to [11:45]  Hiro Protagonist: I think sqlite is one more thing we spend time on that would be better spent elsewhere [11:45] You: i dont support it [11:45]  Richardus Raymaker is Offline [11:45] BlueWall Slade: keep++ [11:46] Charles Krinkeb: keep ++ [11:46] Neas Bade: ok, so volunteers to help root out the openmv bugs? [11:46] BlueWall Slade: PgSQL++ :) [11:46]  Richardus Raymaker is Online [11:46]  You: hehe [11:46]  Charles Krinkeb: blech [11:46]  You: say list [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Torrance Miles [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kurt Stringer [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mic Bowman [11:46]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker [11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist [11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: eaglefx Binder [11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 16 [11:46] Neas Bade: because if early indication is anything, there are a lot of them there [11:46] Hiro Protagonist: for my part, I generally discourage its use [11:46] BlueWall Slade: yow [11:46] Warin Cascabel: Neas: if you'll tell me what to look for, I'll do what I can to help. [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: does this mean we're keeping attendee lists now? [11:46] eaglefx Binder: how about Oracle? will that be an option? [11:46] You: yes [11:46] Neas Bade: honestly, just try to run with it [11:46]  Warin Cascabel: Still trying to learn my way around the codebase. [11:46] You: only i can triger the command though [11:46] Neas Bade: and report in crashes [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I would like to help but I don't know how much time I'll have in the next few days [11:46] You: the fancy sculptures at landing point [11:47] You: are my new sensors [11:47] Charles Krinkeb: I got the impression that libomv is actually working pretty good by the end of the weekend. [11:47] You: that work well in xengine [11:47] Neas Bade: do all the things that you would normally do in the env [11:47] Teravus Ousley: yes.. agreed. I'll run a few tests on sqlite after 6PM [11:47] Neas Bade: charles, not on sqlite [11:47] Warin Cascabel: Neas: OK, I'll change one of my standalone sims to sqlite and bang on it. [11:47] Neas Bade: I was really surprised [11:47] Charles Krinkeb: Ahh. Gotcha. [11:47] You: im not suprised [11:47] You: heh [11:47] Neas Bade: warin, thanks [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: are we talking sqlite just for the region store? [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: or asset/inventory, etc as well? [11:48] Neas Bade: it should be for everything [11:48] Neas Bade: to find all the different store bugs [11:48] Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:48] Neas Bade: every bit helps [11:48] You: these libsl/openmv updates generally break everything [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: ah of course, sorry my brain is a little broken [11:48] Warin Cascabel: Is there a particular Mantis number I should use to report crashes? [11:48] Neas Bade: but it will help the most if it is everything [11:48] Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:48] Neas Bade: warin, nope, make new ones [11:48] Warin Cascabel: OK. [11:48] Neas Bade: and assign them to me [11:48]  Charles Krinkeb: Are there differences in xengine between the usage of MySQL and SQLite also? I got that impression from one of Melanie's recent checkins. [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: sheesh LOL [11:48] You: i doubt it charles [11:49] Neas Bade: charles, I suspect that mysql saves a few more things [11:49] Neas Bade: but that's about it [11:49]  Kurt Stringer: no shouldnt be [11:49]  Charles Krinkeb: cool [11:49] You: xengine tends to make the regions run alot better [11:49] Kurt Stringer goes to look at commit logs... [11:49] Neas Bade: oh, speaking of xengine, and apparently because I like to open cans of worams [11:49] You: so either way your probably going to see imrpovments [11:50] Neas Bade: I really do think we should make that the default [11:50] Kurt Stringer: lol [11:50] Charles Krinkeb: I got the impression that the so-called "Eye Candy" table changes were MySQL and not SQLite from the change log. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi grabs a worm from Neas can [11:50] Neas Bade: it's getting all the love [11:50] BlueWall Slade: prim properties? [11:50] Kurt Stringer: tis true [11:50] Charles Krinkeb: Then there may be a difference between SQLite and MySQL in running xengine. [11:51] Neas Bade: yeh, I think that difference is only in some of the sale stuff [11:51] Hiro Protagonist is Offline [11:51] Neas Bade: it's pretty fringe difference [11:51] You: yea its nothing thats a show stopper [11:51] You: probably 1 mantis it would be fixed [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: weren't you hearing that users had other problems too? [11:51] Teravus Ousley gave you Script_Doesn't_Work_X_Engine. [11:51] Hiro Protagonist is Online [11:52] You: hmm [11:52] You: Ter [11:52] Hiro Protagonist: uno mas tiepos [11:52] You: this doesnt work? [11:52] Whump Linden: / gotta run. If I could get a list of OSGrid regions and region URLs running OGP, that'd be cool. [11:52] Neas Bade: another thing, have others seen a lot of timer related crashes of late? [11:52] Charles Krinkeb: I had been hearing numerous differences and incompatibilities, but would defer to Nebadon's opinion on the efficacy of xengine at this time. [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Bill [11:52] Neas Bade: I think that something is being bad with timers again [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: before we do any default switchin gI would really like to see the LL functions file duplication disappearr [11:52] eaglefx Binder: i would like to get mine running OGP if thats an option [11:52] Hiro Protagonist: no timer issues unless I'm on dne [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise it will never happen [11:53] Charles Krinkeb: Thanks, Teravus, but my inventory keeps disappearing. [11:53] Teravus Ousley: eaglefx, you can.. but you need to pick a region position below 4096 [11:53] Charles Krinkeb: oh, good grief [11:53] eaglefx Binder: Ahh ok [11:53]  Teravus Ousley accepted your inventory offer. [11:53] Teravus Ousley accepted your inventory offer. [11:53] You: sorry [11:53] Neas Bade: I was considering wrapping Timer so that we could track them a bit better [11:53] You: hehe [11:53] You: that was me [11:53]  Francisco Koolhoven: lol [11:53] eaglefx Binder: hehe [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: is it going to be possible to make the LL duplicate files disappear? [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: without this I'm not sure I could agree to a default engine switch.... [11:54] You: i think thats same script Ter [11:54] You: yours has more comments though [11:54] Neas Bade: justin, explain? [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: merely because if we switch engines then we'll continue the confusion as to which file people should be patching... [11:54] Neas Bade: no, we'll have a new default [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: and if another completely separate engine were to come along anyway, we would again be faced with the issue [11:55] Neas Bade: we're never getting rid of the duplicate in any real way [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think that we can simply just patch the default and leave the other very similar looking file to disappear.... [11:55]  BlueWall Slade: yeah, i thought they were both using the shared api file? [11:55] Neas Bade: not really [11:55] Hiro Protagonist: I think that work that continues to promote modularity wrt the script engine is good work [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: how so? I don't know myuself since I haven't yet had an opportunity to look at the code [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: a good proportion is very similar.... [11:56] Neas Bade: yes, but similar and the same are quite different [11:56] Charles Krinkeb: A good proportion is *identical*. [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: there are parts which are identical [11:56] Neas Bade: basically we currently have a default that gets no development, and a non default that does [11:57] Charles Krinkeb: About 2/3 of the two files are identical and the balance is *similar*. [11:57] Neas Bade: if someone wants to really raise the flag and get DNE up to snuff, that's cool [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's an orthogonal argument to eliminating the duplicate LL code [11:57] Neas Bade: not really [11:57] Neas Bade: because there is a lot of time to invest in removed duplication [11:57] Neas Bade: and it is a moving target [11:57] Kurt Stringer: neas: agreed [11:57] Hiro Protagonist: the thing is, it makes absolutely no sense to persist in using a default that is not being actively developed [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think that the time investment is huge to refactor out the parts which are currently identical [11:57] Hiro Protagonist: especially in an alpha project [11:57] Neas Bade: Hiro: +1 [11:58] Kurt Stringer: it is getting attention, but at a rate of 1/10 [11:58] Neas Bade: Justin, you signing up for it? [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: well, things are heavily skewed by Melanie [11:58] Hiro Protagonist: they arent skewed LOL [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I will sign up to factor out the duplication before doing a default switch [11:58] Hiro Protagonist: she is working full time is all [11:58] Neas Bade: it really doesn't matter who skews what [11:58] BlueWall Slade: can the differences in the function be set by configuration if they were combined? [11:58] Kurt Stringer: bu tthe things being fixed are not in the common code [11:58] Neas Bade: it's still lines of code [11:58] You: heh careful chris, i think that prim likes you [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: sure, but if Melanie went then both engines would be getting the same attention level [11:59] Neas Bade: outsiders are patching xengine more [11:59] Hiro Protagonist: the same could be said of anyone here and their code [11:59] Charles Krinkeb: Actually, both LSL files are nearly at the same level and more functions are implemented in the dotnetengine original then the xegine copy. [11:59] Kurt Stringer: only about half of the changes were Mel [11:59] Neas Bade: yeh, we should definitely remove sqlite then, as I'm the main one that fixes it :) [11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: I've seen patches to the ll scripting on both engines [11:59]  Hiro Protagonist: :) [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: All the significant stuff is Mel, apart from the LL wrappers [11:59] Kurt Stringer: Charles - not sure about that [12:00] Charles Krinkeb: I am [12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: neas: for the last few days :) [12:00]  Kurt Stringer: just counting Not Implementeds doesnt work [12:00]  Teravus Ousley: I acutually do use sqlite most of the time. [12:00]  Kurt Stringer: thats why it takes me so long to update status [12:00]  Teravus Ousley: .. but alas, I had it on mysql over the weekend.. in standalone too [12:01]  Neas Bade: ter, it was just a joke, didn't mean anything by it [12:01]  Charles Krinkeb: I need to go back to work. On this thing we are going in circles and perception has outstripped reality. [12:01]  Hiro Protagonist: that's why I didnt plus 1 it :) [12:01] Neas Bade: xengine is definitely getting more community attention as well as core attension [12:01] Charles Krinkeb is Offline [12:01] You: yea its defiantly more stable [12:01] Neas Bade: which makes it a no brainer to default to it [12:01]  You: and more functional now [12:01] You: the last couple days [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not denying that, but we should not let dne deliberately break such that people can't pick it up again right now [12:01] Neas Bade: it is way more stable and more robust [12:01] You: yea [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that we need to look at eliminating code duplication first [12:02] You: if it were dcoupled [12:02] You: it wouldnt matter [12:02] BlueWall Slade: I have been using it for a good while now [12:02] You: so were not updating both constantly [12:02] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. Zero meeting [12:02] Teravus Ousley: see yas! [12:02] BlueWall Slade: then main thing wrong with it, is the lack of prim property persistence [12:02] You: later Ter [12:02] You: yea [12:02] Hiro Protagonist: that's been fixed (mostly?) [12:02] Teravus Ousley is Offline [12:02] Neas Bade: justin, ok, any chance I can pin you into a time frame for refactoring before a switch? [12:02] You: in xengine thats fixed [12:02] BlueWall Slade: which isn't part of the engine [12:02] You: in DNE its never worked right [12:02] Neas Bade: so it isin't forever :) [12:03]  You: DNE is soo far behind right now [12:03]  You: its already broken [12:03]  Hiro Protagonist: oh, thought y'all were talking about xe [12:03]  Neas Bade: yeh, agreed [12:03]  You: in that regard [12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: only if I then get a card which allows me to pin you down to a timing some over time :) [12:03] Neas Bade: the whole event queue processing on DNE pretty much kills it for large envs really fast [12:03] You: the last few days really propelled xengine way beyond dne [12:03] You: DNE probably needs to be rewritten to become as effective [12:03] Kurt Stringer: well, if I wactually both are broken ;-) but yes Ned - that is true [12:04]  Hiro Protagonist: which wouldnt really be a bad thing if someone were determined to do it [12:04]  Kurt Stringer: Neb sorry [12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: I meant, other time [12:04]  Neas Bade: well the reason I ask, is because you said you didn't support a default switch before a refactor [12:04]  Hiro Protagonist: I just am not, and Isuspect no one else here is [12:04]  You: that was fixed [12:04]  You: last few days [12:04]  Neas Bade: Ihave not issue with a refactor [12:04]  You: after i mentioned that [12:04]  You: melanie fixed all that [12:04]  You: this region is now Xengine [12:04]  Neas Bade: but if that blocks the default switch, we're going to stay in limbo for a long time [12:04]  You: it doesnt [12:04]  You: this region switched [12:04]  You: seamlesslly [12:04]  You: 2 days ago [12:04] You: melanie worked it all out [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I will look at it before the end of this month [12:05] Neas Bade: ok, cool [12:05] Kurt Stringer: I am willing to do the work, but my job/life will not cooporate [12:05] You: all my concerns were address [12:05] Kurt Stringer: ere to continue working on DNE, I need to be able to get the communtiy involved, part of the problem is me having to do it in private [12:05] You: addressed [12:05] Neas Bade: it would be nice to default xe before 0.6 [12:05] Neas Bade: as I think it better serves our users [12:05] You: yea at this point its a better default [12:05] Hiro Protagonist: +1 [12:05] You: no doubt about that [12:05] BlueWall Slade: ++ [12:05] You: im not saying depircate DNE [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: what do you think? [12:05] You: but as far as defaults go [12:06]  You: today Xengine is better candidate [12:06] Hiro Protagonist: no, I think deprecation is premature [12:06] You: i think charles had to bail [12:06] Hiro Protagonist: maybe a big note on teh wiki though [12:06] Neas Bade: yeh, he did [12:06] You: RL work syndrome [12:06] Hiro Protagonist: 'this code needs lurve' [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I'm just still hearing that we have issues with xengine [12:06] You: RLWS as its called in the medical circles [12:06] Neas Bade: I'm hearing way more issues with DNE [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no problem with making it the default, I would just like us to move cautiously and be able to pick up DNE again if necessary [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: sure - I'm hearing other people have the opposite situation [12:06] Neas Bade: for what it's worth, every IBM project had to swtich from DNE -> XE [12:06]  You: yea that makes sense [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm going on secondhand head evidence here [12:07] Neas Bade: DNE didn't work for any of them [12:07] You: yea try agian [12:07] Neas Bade: it broke down under scale real fast [12:07] You: 99.9% chance it will now [12:07] You: before it was bad [12:07] You: i agree [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't deny that - but we want to be modular in this project [12:07] BlueWall Slade: neb - you said melanie fixed it - is that the prim properties? [12:07] Kurt Stringer: frankly either need much more done [12:07] You: yea [12:07] You: most of the script stuff persists now [12:07] You: including [12:08] You: the HTML on prim [12:08] You: the texture persists [12:08] BlueWall Slade: so you no longer need to watch CHANGED_REGION_RESTART ? [12:08] You: osDynamicTextures persist now [12:08] Hiro Protagonist: the only thing I've seen it drop so far is phantome [12:08] You: lists persist [12:08] Kurt Stringer: xengine is much more modular, and has state [12:08] Hiro Protagonist: no blue you dont [12:08] Neas Bade: justin, yeh, but I think we'll have a better modular story if we get one working fully first, then figure out how to play around with what we want to optimize [12:08] You: this list [12:08] You: say list [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List: [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D [12:08]  Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Torrance Miles [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kurt Stringer [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mic Bowman [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: eaglefx Binder [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Takeshi Hykova [12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 17 [12:08] BlueWall Slade: ok, nice [12:08] You: will persist a region restart [12:08] You: it will persist 10 restarts [12:08] Neas Bade: a lot of the DNE arch is just not going to work beyond toy state [12:08] Hiro Protagonist: hey Neb [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I think we have an opporunity to do something now before we go forward [12:08] Hiro Protagonist: do you have that script handeh? [12:08] You: yes [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I will look at the problem [12:08] You: see the scultpure [12:08] You: at landing [12:08] Neas Bade: coolio [12:08] You: behind you [12:09] You: grab them [12:09] Hiro Protagonist: yah [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: if I can't get it done then we just make the default switch anyway [12:09] You: both are scanner sensors [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming everyone else not here agrees [12:09] You: they are copy for eveyrone [12:09] Neas Bade: yep [12:09] You: so feel free to grab em before you go [12:09]  Kurt Stringer: JCC: take a look at my patch [12:09] Hiro Protagonist: cool, have done [12:09] Neas Bade: I'll make sure to bring it up again in a couple of weeks based on what you've figure out [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: kurt: is it public? THat would help a lot [12:09] You: the visitor list only responds to owner currnetly [12:09] You: i didnt want meetings spammed with user lists [12:09] You: hehe [12:10] Kurt Stringer: checked into mantis some weeks ago [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, I will be doing the minimum possible to eliminate code dupes [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no intention of doing a big fix on dne [12:10] Kurt Stringer: that does not include my latest work though [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: kurt: which number? [12:10] Kurt Stringer: one sec [12:10] Neas Bade: ok, I need to bail and fix sqlite some more [12:10] Neas Bade: later folks [12:10] Neas Bade is Offline [12:10] Hiro Protagonist: lol [12:10] BlueWall Slade: bye [12:10] Richardus Raymaker: bye [12:11] Kurt Stringer: JCC: 1780 [12:11] You: well im impressed with this regions performance today [12:11] You: 10000% improvment [12:11] You: over last month [12:11] Kurt Stringer: yes! [12:11] Hiro Protagonist: things have been REALLY stable since ter and jhurliman got the libomv wrinkles rubbed out [12:11] Chris D is Offline [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: you didn't hear anybody failing to get in today? [12:11] You: none [12:11] You: not a single person [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I saw some slightly funny stuff on the user console a bit earlier [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, cool [12:11] You: excpt hiro [12:11] You: lol [12:11] Hiro Protagonist: yeah, I'm always the anomoly ROFL [12:11] You: crash master general [12:12] You: hehe [12:12] You: he set a new personal record today [12:12] You: :P [12:12] Kurt Stringer: gotta go - bye all [12:12] Hiro Protagonist: lol prolly so [12:12]  You: later [12:12] Francisco Koolhoven: bye [12:12] You: great meeting guys [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, thanks kurt [12:12] BlueWall Slade: g'bye [12:12] You: i'll post it up on wiki [12:12] Kurt Stringer is Offline [12:12] Richardus Raymaker: bye [12:13] Hiro Protagonist: vereh laggy today [12:13] Hiro Protagonist: I guess lag is better than crashing every few seconds [12:13] eaglefx Binder: well talking about the Xengine, is that just switching it on in the OpenSim.ini? [12:14] Hiro Protagonist: pretty much eagle [12:14] eaglefx Binder: ok [12:14]  Hiro Protagonist: it's no worse to set up than anything else in opensim.ini [12:14] You: things have been pretty snappy for me this morning [12:14] You: i was excited about the meeting [12:14] You: i had a feeling ti would go well today [12:14] Hiro Protagonist: mine is either network or local-load related I'm sure [12:15] Warin Cascabel: Might want to set the os functions to true, eaglefx, if you want to take advantage of the extended function set. [12:15] BlueWall Slade: hehe, a far-cry from a month ago, eh? [12:15] eaglefx Binder: my sims have been running 3 days now without restart i think ;) [12:15]  Hiro Protagonist: yes, excellent point Warin [12:15]  You: yea a month ago the meeting lasted about 5 minutes [12:15]  You: lol [12:15]  Warin Cascabel: hehe [12:15]  BlueWall Slade: 3 avatars max :) [12:15] Hiro Protagonist: heh [12:15] Hiro Protagonist: ok guys [12:15] You: now i have timers running [12:15] Hiro Protagonist: I gotta hit the showers [12:15] You: hehe [12:15] You: thats a big jump [12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: aaaaaaaarrrrrghhhhh, logouts ahoy? [12:16] You: ok Hiro [12:16] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline [12:16] Hiro Protagonist: bbiab [12:16] Hiro Protagonist: :) [12:16]  Hiro Protagonist is Offline [12:16]  BlueWall Slade: see ya Hiro