Chat log from the meeting on 2008-11-25



[10:47] paulie Flomar: Heyza, Nebs.

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: but hey

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: could be worse

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: could be upside down

[10:47] paulie Flomar: \yeah. lolz

[10:47] Simulator Version v0.4b shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.0.7466 (OS Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) Kernel \r on an \) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False on Mono 2.3a

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: this is 7466

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: so thats good

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: i have 7364 as backup

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: incase we lose it during meeting

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: i'll flip to that

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: so far so good though

[10:48] Blaksmith Rubble is Online

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: it held up over an hour before the meeting

[10:48] paulie Flomar: kewl

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: so im not real worrieed

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: i think we'll be fine

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: Unfortuantly Babbge cant join us this week

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: but hopefully next week

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: Babbage that is

[10:49] paulie Flomar: ah well

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: but we'll hav a good meeting anyway

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: i think whump will be here

[10:49] paulie Flomar: kewl

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: anything got anything cool going on?

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: wanna see what i made

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: i'll give everyone here a copy today

[10:49] paulie Flomar: sure

[10:49] paulie Flomar: I'm workin on bringin my hammer game over from SL.

[10:50] Blaksmith Rubble: wheeee, the purple hair heheheeheh

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: ok

[10:50] Blaksmith Rubble: trying to detach my hud, there it is lol

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: do you guys see that prim?

[10:51] paulie Flomar: yep

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its copy

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: 1 prim sculpty i made

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i'll have more soon

[10:51] paulie Flomar: neat. thx. got it.

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: visit OKC Tower

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: around 160m

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: you will find many more 1 prim sculpt

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: just like this razor edges

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: when i have some time i'll make some tutorials

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im working on sword

[10:52] Blaksmith Rubble is Offline

[10:52] paulie Flomar: those are some sharp edges for a scuplt, yeah.

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: the trick is Use WIngs3D

[10:52] Website Display Panel v1.0: Loading URL, Please wait..

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: there is a SL plugin

[10:52] Blaksmith Rubble is Online

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: it exports BMP files

[10:53] paulie Flomar: when I cam back, LOD rounds teh edges, but up close theyre sharp.

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: when you upload these files you will be allowed to check the "Lossless"

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: box

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: and get perfect sculpts

[10:53] paulie Flomar: losless ftw!

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: check out my sowrd

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: sword

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: on this board to my left

[10:53] paulie Flomar: I saw the jpegies.

[10:53] paulie Flomar: yeah. kewl.

[10:53] Warin Cascabel: Alas, still hasn't rezzed for me - just a flattened ovoid. :(

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: well take a copy

[10:53] Tiara Ewing: me too :(

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: it will eventually rez

[10:53] paulie Flomar: Warin, weird. I see it.

[10:53] Warin Cascabel: Heh

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: maybe click it

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: edit it

[10:54] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, my bandwidth meter's still pegged.

[10:54] Blaksmith Rubble: inventory is taking forever to load in .. :(

[10:54] Blaksmith Rubble: but to be expected here LOL

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: if you do sculpt meshing

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: these work perfectly

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: and consume very little ram

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i will have dozens for everyone soon

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: im gonna make all kinds of shapes

[10:55] Tiara Ewing: are scupties better than prims?

[10:55] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: that loks clean :)

[10:55] paulie Flomar: sweet, neb.

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: depends

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: not always are they better

[10:55] Blaksmith Rubble: wow, chat lag and ahalf ..

[10:55] Warin Cascabel: Certainly they're not the best-looking from far away, which is annoying.

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: hello Owen

[10:55] Marlon Wulluf: neb....do you know how to import a 2D image into blender for it to map it into a mesh for sculpting?

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: no, I dont know blender very well

[10:55] Warin Cascabel: Yes, Marlon - use View -> Background Image

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: i am Learning Wings3D now

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: for SL sculpting its better

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: from what i hear

[10:56] Warin Cascabel: Matter of perspective, I suppose. :)

[10:56] Warin Cascabel: Er, no pun intended.

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: well the export is better i hear

[10:56] Marlon Wulluf: thanks, I'll try it later

[10:56] Blaksmith Rubble is Offline

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: its impossible with blender or maya to get perfect edges like this

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats what im told anyway

[10:56] Warin Cascabel: I must disagree.

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea i dont know

[10:56] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: I warren, that frind thing didn't stick this morning

[10:56] Warin Cascabel: If I could ever see what this prim is, I'd do an equivalent in Blender to show you. :)

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i spoke with Musashi and Max in SL they both use maya

[10:57] Blaksmith Rubble is Online

[10:57] Marlon Wulluf: trying to maniluplate those vertices, all 32 of them, is a pain, just to try and get them to resemble something

[10:57] paulie Flomar: Warin, it's a bookshelf.

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats why i want to make a bunch of stock shapes

[10:57] Warin Cascabel: OK, right - Nebadon mentioned it in IRC.

[10:57] Warin Cascabel: How many shelves?

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh Max's?

[10:57] whump joins #osgrid-wp

[10:57] justincc joins #osgrid-wp

[10:57] Warin Cascabel: No, this one.

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i think he had a full bookcase with 7 shelves

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: this is 2

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: this one is rough

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: just a starter

[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: i could easily have done atleast 5

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: i just wanted to get one out

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: ive mostly been working on this sword

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:58] Warin Cascabel: Yeah - I made a couple of five-shelf objects, one with beveled edges and one unbeveled.

[10:58] Warin Cascabel: But I cant' rez things here. :/

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: ah yea, normally i dont during meetings either

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: trying to keep it somewhat stable

[10:59] Warin Cascabel: Yeah.

[10:59] Marlon Wulluf: I don't want to look for it yet, as it might disrupt my SL viewer, but is 3D wings available for Linux?

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: and Mac

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hang on

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: let me get you the full details

[10:59] Blaksmith Rubble waves HI

[10:59] Marlon Wulluf: ok, thankx

[10:59] Charles Krinkeb is Online

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Wings_3D

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: there you go

[11:00] Blaksmith Rubble: hrm.. sit popped me to 0,0,0 for a sec.. heheeh

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: this has everything you need and more to get started

[11:00] Charles Krinkeb: Morning

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: eventually i'll post some .wings files

[11:00] Warin Cascabel: Morning, Charles

[11:00] whump: Hello.

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: stuff i made

[11:00] Warin Cascabel: Hooray, I can see the bookshelf. :)

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[11:00] whump: I've got my 11am, but will come in after that.

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: yea might just take a while

[11:00] BlueWall: Hi Whump

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: everyone who wants take a copy of this 1 prim bookshelf i made

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: its a sculpt prim

[11:01] Blaksmith Rubble: wow, nice single prim

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: yep :)

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: im just learning now

[11:01] Dek Fairplay: Thanks

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: as i make better stuff i'll share with everyone

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: but everyone grab a copy of this for now

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: :)

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: humph, I reckon movement packets should really have priority over image packets

[11:01] Dek Fairplay: I got one

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: you can also see my sword im working on to my left

[11:02] Dek Fairplay: now your talking

[11:02] Homer_Horwitz joins #osgrid-wp

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: its not quite finished yet

[11:02] Dek Fairplay: looks fancy

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: but this is where i am currently

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin

[11:02] Charles Krinkeb: Is that a bug smashing mallet, Kajuta?

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: how you doing today

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hows everyone doing

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: :)

[11:03] Blaksmith Rubble: not bad ..

[11:03] Dek Fairplay: im doing great

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: well the good news is this is near head SVN revision we are on today for this meeting

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: was rough getting here, but were here

[11:04] Blaksmith Rubble: not 7364 like you said you were going to use?

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: yep

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i lied

[11:04] Dek Fairplay: lol

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: :P

[11:04] daTwitch: Greetings Everyone :D

[11:04] Simulator Version v0.4b shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.0.7466 (OS Fedora Core release 6 (Zod) Kernel \r on an \) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False on Mono 2.3a

[11:04] Blaksmith Rubble: nice

[11:04] Dek Fairplay: woot

[11:04] Homer Horwitz: Hi :)

[11:04] Charles Krinkeb: How should we do our agenda, today?

[11:04] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: hi daTwitch

[11:04] daTwitch: Heya Blue :D

[11:04] tchebbe Yongho: hello

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: well 1st off Babbage cant join us today

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but hopefully next week

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Babbage Linden that is

[11:05] daTwitch: that may be better actually

[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: we can bash SL now

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but none the less lots of stuff to talk about

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Maybe Justin has something?

[11:05] Blaksmith Rubble: yah, like the tests that we did yesterday

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: yea lets talk about that

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: tell us what you found

[11:06] Blaksmith Rubble: I wasn't the one doing the initial experiment.. but..

[11:06] Blaksmith Rubble: when someone tp'd from one sim to another that was down, the sim they tp'd from would keep them as root agent

[11:06] tchebbe Yongho: am I here ?

[11:06] justincc: okay, I do have a couple of things - I'll wait my turn :)

[11:06] Blaksmith Rubble: and if the owner of the sim did a "kickuser" to remove them, it trashed the sim, and had to be restarted

[11:07] Dek Fairplay: ouch

[11:07] Blaksmith Rubble: there seemed to be a 40 min timeout before the root agent would vanish, but then nobody can get in after that

[11:07] Blaksmith Rubble: until restart

[11:07] justincc: urgh

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: yea its very repeatable

[11:08] daTwitch: good data

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: as we found out last night

[11:08] ChrisD1: I can confirm that. I tried these tets on Fermi and ctashed the region.

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I seem to recall seeing a mantis on this?

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes there are a few mantis

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ChrisD1 had one

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: and there might be 1 or 2 others

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: have they all been related together?

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: this seems to be the sim killer

[11:09] Charles Krinkeb: Is there further testing we can do to help the developers confirm on other configurations to help them focus?

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: which here on osgrid that scenari is a 1 in 3 chance

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: there is something that it would be good to test

[11:09] Dek Fairplay: lol

[11:09] daTwitch: Hi Bri :D

[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: does everybody remember the problems we had with the progressive texture stuff from last week?

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[11:09] daTwitch: yippers

[11:09] Marlon Wulluf: do I? lol

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: i saw a new patch for that, i was going to test it

[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yep, that would be great

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: but there was so many other problems, i didnt want to doom it

[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be good to do a bit of that first before trying it on trunk again

[11:10] daTwitch: I got busy and havent been able to chase things or test patches as much as I'd like

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes i had planned on it yesterday

[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: if people could help with that, that would be really good

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: but yesterday it was crash fest

[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yah

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: so most of my time was spent rebooting sims

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: this Teleport issue is critical

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i think its above all issues in my book

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its leaving trail of dead sims all over the place

[11:11] Blaksmith Rubble: heh yah, had a few reboots of my own lol

[11:11] daTwitch: it's the new biggie

[11:11] Marlon Wulluf: *Puts hand up* for bug about linking

[11:11] Blaksmith Rubble: I agree with neb.. very critical

[11:11] daTwitch: hold that thought Marlon

[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: Homer - any opinions? I know you've been acitve in the teleport area (the last patches were from Diva, I seem to recall)

[11:12] Homer Horwitz: Well, I've looked a bit into things; the eventqueue seems to be at least part of the problem again...

[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ping

[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: oh no :(

[11:13] Warin Cascabel: pong

[11:13] ChrisD1: This TP problem has existed for a few days at least.

[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: oh no :(

[11:13] Homer Horwitz: Chat laaaaag.

[11:13] Homer_Horwitz: The client seems to lose one queue on crossing, and doesn't recover.

[11:13] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: ding

[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: why does that wierd chat lag jhappens - even happens on a lightly loaded standalone

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yea we seem to get alot of locking

[11:13] Homer_Horwitz: So, first cross initializes the second one (in the second region), second cross loses one, third cross fails.

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i notice when chat frees it like spurts

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: all at once

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: somethings locking

[11:14] Charles Krinkeb: Yes, the theory is that it is various portions of the code waiting for locks to clear.

[11:14] tchebbe Yongho: hello

[11:14] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: could that be some of the stuff adam was poking with yesterday, the locking?

[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: nah, this was happening before then

[11:14] Charles Krinkeb: One of the problems is that multiple avatars chatting in a meeting like this is a different usage case then one avatar on an empty sim.

[11:14] Homer_Horwitz: Well, he removed locking in at least two places where I think it is needed...

[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: Homer: good call on the locking stuff by the way - I hadn't even really heard about lockless stacks until Adam made that post

[11:14] ChrisD1: If you want to see a failed region crossing, try crossing on a diagonal :)

[11:15] Warin Cascabel: heh

[11:15] Homer_Horwitz: I tried a bit around with it in RL. It's a debuggin and mainainance nightmare.

[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: Homer_Horwitz: might be worth putting back in that case,, witha bit of disucssion maybe

[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, doesn't surprise me

[11:15] Charles Krinkeb: ChrisD. Thats the region that Yang is on the diagonal on the SW corner of WP. Just to test that use case.

[11:15] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: @Homer, yep - I was wondering if he didn't get far enough into it

[11:15] Homer_Horwitz: And doesn't bring you much if you don't have processors to throw at.

[11:15] Charles Krinkeb: er, "reason"

[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: once we have 64 core machines then it will be cool ;)

[11:16] Homer_Horwitz: Yep :)

[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: but I would tend to agree with you - right now it's important to try and ge ta bit of predictibility and stablility

[11:16] Charles Krinkeb: Everybody hear about Intels "SciencSim" supercomputer project for physics that will be using OpenSim?

[11:17] Homer_Horwitz: Only skimmed an article somewhere...

[11:17] Charles Krinkeb: That should expose some interesting issues.

[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, cmickeyb is a true believer

[11:18] Dek Fairplay: That sounds neat

[11:18] Charles Krinkeb: Getting back to business: "How should we head towards our next release?". Do we concentrate on stomping bugs vigorously with Kajuta's mallet for the next two weeks?

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, just making them really clear and visible would be good

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: the more good information we have the more likely someone is to fix it, I would say ;)

[11:19] Charles Krinkeb: By the way, the fact that WP is even running today is a tribute to Nebadon, daTwitch and the developers who worked furiously that last couple of days.

[11:20] Homer Horwitz: Wow, even a current version. Great.

[11:20] Charles Krinkeb: Personally, I tend to calibrate my "reliability meter" based on whether or not WP survives this weekly meeting.

[11:20] Blaksmith Rubble: hehehe

[11:20] Homer Horwitz: Noone moving, please ;)

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yea to be honest im suprised its holding up so well right now, but thats great

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: at the last minute i tried head

[11:20] Mikelo Serevi looks in his inv for particles

[11:20] Blaksmith Rubble: how many root agents?

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: it ran for ever an hour before the meeting, several people came and went

[11:20] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: hehe, and i teleported here from my home grid

[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey laughs

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so i decided to stay on it

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and here we are

[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: yes - as long as we stand very very still we might be okay

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: heheh

[11:21] Blaksmith Rubble: lol

[11:21] Marlon Wulluf: or sit, standing still lol

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: none the less impresive stuff

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: things change quick in these parts

[11:21] ocsean: FYI: the intel story: http://blogs.intel.com/research/2008/11/immersive_science.php

[11:21] Charles Krinkeb: Well, we have the reliability that lets us have meetings and chat like this. We also have teleport issues. Fortunately the teleport issues can be replicated with only one avatar.

[11:21] Blaksmith Rubble: here's the latest mantis about the initial bug that was brought up http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=2687

[11:21] chi11ken joins #osgrid-wp

[11:21] adjohn: How many of you guys are logged in?

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: im showing 19 main agents

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt do a head count though

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: probably close

[11:22] Dek Fairplay: Thank you Blaksmith

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i also updated Mono last night

[11:22] Teravus Ousley is Online

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: to yesterdays mono svn 2.3

[11:22] Homer Horwitz: Map shows 18 people. Does it count me in or is that 18 *other* people?

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: thats others i think

[11:22] Homer Horwitz: Well, then 19 is right

[11:23] Blaksmith Rubble: cool. : )

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: but who knows, these numbers are never lined up

[11:23] Marlon Wulluf: when did mono get updated?, the last I heard it was 1.9

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: but 19 sounds good

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: the SVN is much newer than the current release of 2.0.something

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe it worth sticking the 2687 link in the #opensim-dev topic? Not sure how else to get it visibility

[11:23] Charles Krinkeb: head in mono is 2.3. 1.9 is their stable. We are a little ahead of the mono curve these days.

[11:23] Tiara Ewing rises her hand... may i ask something?

[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: Tiara: sure

[11:24] nebadon: Mono JIT compiler version 2.3 (/trunk/mono r118697 Thu Nov 13 05:48:24 UTC 2008)

[11:24] nebadon: Copyright (C) 2002-2008 Novell, Inc and Contributors. www.mono-project.com

[11:24] nebadon: TLS: normal

[11:24] nebadon: GC: Included Boehm (with typed GC)

[11:24] nebadon: SIGSEGV: altstack

[11:24] nebadon: Notifications: epoll

[11:24] nebadon: Architecture: x86

[11:24] nebadon: Disabled: none

[11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Sure, Tiara.

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: thats where we are here

[11:24] Tiara Ewing: i have a local grid and im having problems with prims

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of problems exactly?

[11:24] Tiara Ewing: for ex... im building a skybox

[11:24] Tiara Ewing: and when i landed on it it is perfect

[11:24] Dahlia Trimble is Online

[11:25] Tiara Ewing: but when i fly to build something and try to land again im falling inside the prim

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: what physics are you using?

[11:25] Adam Genkii is Online

[11:26] Tiara Ewing: ODF

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ok and Mehsmerizer?

[11:26] Tiara Ewing: yes

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: hmm well it could just be lag, does it fix when you restart the sim?

[11:27] Marlon Wulluf: I have the same problem, but it happens when I unlink a prim, the rest become phantom, and using the same ODE physics engine and same Meshmerizer.

[11:27] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: Tiara - is the building selected for editing when you land on it?

[11:27] Blaksmith Rubble: what height are you building at?

[11:28] Tiara Ewing: no

[11:28] Tiara Ewing: 300m

[11:28] nebadon: bit of a lag, i suggest not doing to much moving around

[11:28] nebadon: its just killing the sim

[11:28] justincc: Marlon: the unlinking thing should be pretty fixable. I seem to remember a mantis for it

[11:28] justincc: my client just crashed out

[11:28] nebadon: CPU is really high i saw it hit 200%

[11:29] justincc: Marlon: don't suppose you have a reference? If not, might be worth creating a new one

[11:29] Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps, Tiara, you could test a copy of your build at ground level, see if you get the same effect and Mantis both your observations?

[11:29] Tiara Ewing: yes

[11:29] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: leet it ride for a bit

[11:29] Dek Fairplay: Mehsmerizer?

[11:29] whump: heading inworld

[11:29] Aramil Ewing: Hi all!

[11:29] Charles Krinkeb: Not to discount your efforts in the slightest, but there are quite a few technical issues we are grappling with lately.

[11:29] Adam Genkii: I see someone walking around and rubber banding

[11:29] Tiara Ewing: with the house i built on the floor

[11:29] Tiara Ewing: i had same

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: cpu settled down a bit

[11:30] BlueWall.Slade http://74.237.137.28:8102: I see huge CPU spikes on occasion & they settle

[11:30] Marlon Wulluf: I think I made a mantis for it, but with other 'new' manits streaching back to june, there may be quite a time before current ones are addressed

[11:30] Charles Krinkeb: Can you please Mantis your observations, Tiara.

[11:30] Adam Genkii: and some decent chat lag in irc

[11:30] justincc: Marlon: yeah - the number of bugs far exceeds our current capacity for dealing with them, unfortunately

[11:30] Adam Genkii: oh, and in world I guess

[11:30] Warin Cascabel: I frequently see shift-copied or linked/unlinked prims go phantom until I see the comment state that the object has been stored, at which time they solidify.

[11:30] Aramil Ewing: may i have a suggestion?

[11:31] dahlia: I tried to go to the meeting with idealist but I couldnt make it up the stairs :/

[11:31] Warin Cascabel: er, s/comment/console/

[11:31] justincc: dahlia: and no flying yet?

[11:31] dahlia: not yet

[11:31] justincc: Warin: that's pretty odd

[11:32] justincc: ckrinke: perhaps it's worth working out a bug priority list? Which ones it would be really nice to address first

[11:32] tchebbe Yongho: if you use camara and sit you can make it

[11:32] justincc: we used to have one but I don't think it has been maintained for a long long while

[11:32] adjohn: Is there a way to add voting on bugs?

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yea the best thing you can do is file mantis for any bugs or wierd things occuring, http://opensimulator.org/mantis

[11:32] Marlon Wulluf: justinc,,,,,,these 3 new console commands added 'login-enable/disable and status' what are they actually used for?

[11:32] adjohn: so we can vote up bugs?

[11:32] Warin Cascabel: justincc: It's been that way ever since I started playing with OpenSim, so I figured it was normal behavior.

[11:32] Aramil Ewing rise his hand

[11:32] Charles Krinkeb: We can mark bugs as necessary for the next major release if we wish.

[11:33] Homer_Horwitz: But please have a look first whether there is a mantis dealing with your problem already.

[11:33] justincc: Marlon: they came from Sacha Magne. What they actually do is prevent logins actually reaching the sim on grid mode

[11:33] justincc: Warin: heh, that happens surprisingly often with our really long standing bugs

[11:33] nebadon: it does seem we have memory usage under control

[11:33] Homer_Horwitz: Adding a comment to that might be better than opening an unrelated mantis then.

[11:33] nebadon: perhaps we should start focusing on removing locks

[11:33] nebadon: consolidating locks etc..

[11:34] nebadon: even cpu is low

[11:34] nebadon: but it still is freezing quite a bit even with 20% cpu

[11:34] Charles Krinkeb: All comments bring all Mantis to the top of the list and bring them back to our attention, so adding a useful note is a way to amplify a Mantis entry.

[11:34] justincc: well, I'm wondering if there's anything that can be done about the rubberbanding

[11:34] Homer_Horwitz: justincc: Yep. Don't move.

[11:34] Homer_Horwitz: :P

[11:34] justincc: I'm wondering if it's possible to prioritize texture packets much lower

[11:34] justincc: Homer_Horwitz: heh

[11:35] Homer_Horwitz: We have that already, no?

[11:35] justincc: not sure if that would help or not

[11:35] Charles Krinkeb: Sacha: Is there anything we can do here to help make the "Test Hour" more useful to all on Saturday?

[11:35] justincc: I don't think so

[11:35] paulie Flomar is Online

[11:35] Homer_Horwitz: Packet priority?

[11:35] Homer_Horwitz: Those differnet queues?

[11:35] justincc: only one implemented is low prioirty task stuff

[11:35] Homer_Horwitz: Ah.

[11:35] justincc: when the throttle goes through, it takes a packet off each queue and then cycles round again

[11:36] justincc: so in theory some object update packets should always get through

[11:36] adjohn: locked up on me

[11:36] justincc: so I'm not sure if that's the cause of rubberbanding or not really

[11:36] Homer_Horwitz: I see.

[11:36] justincc: of course, it might just be the sheer load causing things to crack in ways that we can't deal with - but I don't think that we know that for certain

[11:36] Homer_Horwitz: Well, AgentUpdate packets are the ones that are sent most. By factors more than every other one.

[11:36] justincc: but they're incoming, no?

[11:40] Fi Folland is Offline

[11:40] BlueWall Slade is Online

[11:40] justincc: perhaps the other thing worth mentioning is that we took in Diva's hypergrid code today

[11:41] nebadon: super got back in

[11:41] nebadon: amazing

[11:41] Whump Linden: Well, yesterday was Darwin's birthday, so the sim is participating in the survival of the fittest.

[11:41] justincc: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Hypergrid

[11:41] Homer_Horwitz: lol

[11:41] Teravus Ousley is Online

[11:41] Whump Linden: yes

[11:42] justincc: yeah, seeing console timeouts on contacting other services

[11:42] BlueWall Slade: wow, I was in a snowy pine @ <0,0,0> for a sec

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: heh i made it

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: oh so did my hair

[11:42] paulie Flomar: I got logged in at 1/10/10 for "last location."

[11:42] justincc: often seems to indicate a high cpu load

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: welcome back hair

[11:42] Blaksmith Rubble: lol.. tchebbe and I are on the same external ip .. .she sat down on the couch, and it plopped me to 0,0,0 .. and she can't sit normally on the couch hehehehe

[11:42] Aramil Ewing: hi blue!

[11:42] Tiara Ewing mumbles looking at the man on her lap

[11:42] BlueWall Slade: Hi Aramil

[11:43] Aramil Ewing: hi all!

[11:43] BlueWall Slade: hehe, we all fell off the turnip truck

[11:43] Aramil Ewing: before i crash

[11:43] justincc: does the irc connector really need to be echoing text to the console

[11:43] Aramil Ewing: may i make i sugesstion?

[11:43] paulie Flomar: i just fell thru the floor! lol

[11:43] Charles Krinkeb: sure

[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: sure

[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: suggestions are free of charge

[11:43] justincc: implementations are very expensive ;)

[11:43] paulie Flomar: chat seems somewhat out of order. :)

[11:44] paulie Flomar: not broke. just delayed and ooo.

[11:44] Tiara Ewing is Online

[11:44] BlueWall Slade: lol, justincc

[11:44] Teravus Ousley: well, this server is running *really* slow

[11:44] tchebbe Yongho: tehehehehehehehehe

[11:44] Blaksmith Rubble: ok, I'm back where I should be LOL

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya think

[11:44] paulie Flomar: cant move. gonna locant move. gonna log.

[11:44] Blaksmith Rubble: hehe, with all the login / out .. .I can imagine

[11:44] paulie Flomar is Offline

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but it hasnt crashed

[11:44] Teravus Ousley: The max that a server should have in frame time is 100ms

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: so YAY!

[11:44] justincc sets the console log level to error to at least alleviate that load a little

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: nice i didnt think to do that

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: guess i need to start doing that too

[11:45] Teravus Ousley: after 100ms, it goes into negative time diolation

[11:45] Aramil Ewing: first, congratulations for this amazing proyect, second: i see the upgrades, and you must compare the old opensim.ini with the new one looking for changes, is possible to ad the new things at the end of the .ini with a version note, like: #new on 0.6.0.xxxx ##?

[11:45] Teravus Ousley: negative time dilation gives you the rubber bandiness

[11:45] justincc: yes, it will help a little bit

[11:45] justincc: printing to the console is actually quite expensive

[11:45] tchebbe Yongho: Im giveing up trying to sit

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hehe i broke the couches

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i found out the hard way child prim scripts dont recompile

[11:46] tchebbe Yongho: theheheeh

[11:46] Aramil Ewing: so will be more quick to understand the changes

[11:46] Blaksmith Rubble: !lol Neb

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: so only 1 couch works

[11:46] justincc: Aramil: I suspect that's quite difficult due to the way the Nini works

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and the rest dont

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:46] paulie Flomar is Online

[11:46] justincc: but I appreciate your pain

[11:46] justincc: er, Nini is the library that processes OpenSim.ini

[11:46] Warin Cascabel: Yes, there's an issue with shift-copied objects; the new scripts seem to be associated with the original prims, until you take the object into inventory and re-rez it.

[11:47] Aramil Ewing: ahh ok

[11:47] tchebbe Yongho: your couch doesnt want me to sit next to Blak is what it is

[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[11:47] tchebbe Yongho: thheheehheeh

[11:47] Blaksmith Rubble chuckles

[11:47] Warin Cascabel: (i.e. if you put a touch_start handler into a prim and shift-copy it, touching the copied object does nothing, and touching the original fires touch_start in both prims)

[11:47] Teravus Ousley: paulie has a mallet

[11:47] BlueWall Slade: Aramil, you can use diff : diff ./olsopensim/OpenSim.ini.example ./newopensim/OpenSim.ini.example

[11:47] Dek Fairplay: good idea

[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: hey Adam G

[11:47] Aramil Ewing: AAHH thas is better

[11:48] Blaksmith Rubble: that's an interesting one Warin

[11:48] justincc: Warin: sounds like a definite bug

[11:48] Marlon Wulluf: here's another prim problem, after taking an object, and it's cleared from the ground, if the region server is restarted, that object (missing some prims) is re-rezzed in the same place as before

[11:48] Adam Genkii: hey

[11:48] BlueWall Slade: hehe

[11:48] whump: Nebadon: I have a couple of quick announcements, OGP-wise

[11:48] justincc: Marlon: which revision are you using?

[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: Go for it Whump, all you buddy

[11:49] Warin Cascabel: justincc: I've comented about it in mantis 2668.

[11:49] Blaksmith Rubble: I think that was resolved with r7424 ... (or some revision around there)

[11:49] Marlon Wulluf: justinc,,,,,,r7455

[11:49] Whump Linden: kk

[11:49] Blaksmith Rubble: about the prim coming back after restart of the sim .. I had a few that were doing that

[11:49] Whump Linden: I sent out an update to the gridnauts, we're done with our current batch of bug fixes on the agent domain.

[11:49] justincc: Warin: hmm, I see Melanie is rather pessimistic that the bug is fixable

[11:49] Tiara Ewing: ahh ye i live that too

[11:50] Whump Linden: the OGP agent domain will remain up for folks to continue to experiment and play with it.

[11:50] justincc: Marlon: okay, sounds like it may be a new bug, or possibly even a regression

[11:50] Whump Linden: The OGP viewer code is in the interop-9 branch.

[11:50] Whump Linden: There's no OGP office hours this week because of thanksgiving.

[11:51] Whump Linden: And Infinity is out on a family emergency, so no Zero OO.

[11:51] Teravus Ousley: any eta on zero's availability to continue interop discussions?

[11:51] Warin Cascabel: justincc: well, it's a recent issue, so it was working at one point.

[11:51] Whump Linden: You'll have to ask Zero.

[11:51] Whump Linden: He's a popular avatar at the moment.

[11:52] justincc: Warin: are you waiting for a little bit of time before restarting the server?

[11:52] Whump Linden: My team is working on how to scale the OGP work we've done so far so that we can merge it into Second Life grid at some point in the future.

[11:52] BlueWall Slade: thanks Whump, I filed a jira with a comment about the OGP and the new HyperGrid

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: nice whump

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: sounds good

[11:52] Owen Oyen: Folks, a question or two. First, as some may know we have been building a raceable sailboat in Hiro's and Bri's sims. It is complete. It works. . . rather well for a beta. Most problems found fixed. But not all. The problems I would like to mention here are 1) Attachment child prims seem to lose perm specification when the attachment is returned to an inventory. This makes the attachment wearable only once and is a significant annoyance to the many sl sailors who have migrated to try this out.

[11:52] Warin Cascabel: justincc: sorry, I didn't understand the question. Restarting what server?

[11:53] justincc: Warin: ah sorry, got my conversations crossed :)

[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: Owen is there mantis filed yet?

[11:53] Whump Linden: Thanks BlueWall, did you file a mantis?

[11:53] justincc: that's the trouble with trying to follow 4 at once

[11:53] Owen Oyen: sorry, I thought I was at a pause in convo, my bad

[11:53] BlueWall Slade: yes - btw I need to supply a link to it in the jira

[11:54] justincc: Owen: Melanie might be interested in that one

[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hehe its ok lots of chat lag today

[11:54] justincc: Owen: oh no problem - this is pretty normal

[11:54] Owen Oyen: well then haha. . . . 2) There is significant listener lag in the attachment which causes the sail setting to be badly delayed after arrow key press. Thoughts?

[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but yea i suggest open up a mantis if you have not

[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis

[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: also probably Melanie land

[11:55] Owen Oyen: I suspect it is mantised, Hiro said sounded familiar

[11:55] justincc: Owen: you're using XEngine?

[11:55] Owen Oyen: I don't know what XEngine is

[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ok well i suggest searchign mantis quickly, if you cant find anything start a new one

[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats about the only way it will see traction

[11:55] justincc: It's another scripting engine. Could perform much better if you are still using the DotNetEngine

[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: but i suspect the person you need to talk to is Melanie

[11:55] justincc: Owen: check the default_engine in your OpenSim.ini

[11:55] Owen Oyen: I wrote in LSL

[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: well we have 2 ways to run LSL here

[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and 1 is extremely better than the other

[11:56] Owen Oyen: I own no sims, I was brought in to make a sailboat, I don't know anything about the sims here. I will ask. . . I guess

[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect because your testing with Bri and Hiro its Xengine

[11:56] justincc: yeah, we need to switch the defaults but I can't quite get the bandwidth to raise it on the mailing list yet

[11:56] justincc: sorry, I meant that we should see if we can switch the defaults

[11:57] justincc: Owen: oh I see - yeah, ask the region owner. Though I suspect you probably already are on XEngine

[11:57] Owen Oyen: k

[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt either of them use Dotnet

[11:57] sacha Magne: stuck

[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: are you on IRC Owen?

[11:58] justincc: yeah, I'm sure Melanie might be quite interested in the sailnig community, esp. in regards to her own grid

[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: if your not i suggest going to #opensim-dev on irc.freenode.net

[11:58] Owen Oyen: applause to your ODE ppl (I have IRC, not logged in this moment). The boat works very well with not a single llSetVehicle function reqd

[11:58] justincc: alright, so in this meeting we learnt that there are lots and lots of bugs :)

[11:58] Creativaty Watson is Online

[11:59] justincc: wow, cool

[11:59] Owen Oyen: k

[11:59] Blaksmith Rubble: and one MAJOR bug hehe

[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yay lagz

[11:59] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[11:59] sacha Magne: i can't even walk anymore

[11:59] SachaMagne joins #osgrid-wp

[12:00] SachaMagne: hi all

[12:00] Marlon Wulluf: previous experience on sailing in opensim, has shown, that, it doesn't matter what vehicle script is used,, the boat will sink when rezzed on water

[12:00] justincc: maybe it is worth asking Sean if it's possible to do a voting system - I think we briefly talked about it many many months back but didn't really go forward with anything

[12:00] DekFair joins #osgrid-wp

[12:00] Ter_afk joins #osgrid-wp

[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: yea lag seems bad

[12:00] Lucy Afarensis: or talk either

[12:01] Blaksmith: bandwidth just dropped to 0 for a min

[12:01] nebadon: we are hitting the swap bad

[12:01] nebadon: its pretty much game over at this point

[12:01] justincc: the end of the world is nigh!

[12:01] nebadon: the sim wont recover

[12:01] justincc: alright, I'm going to stop paying attention and do some work

[12:01] justincc: see you folks

[12:02] Ter_afk: yes, me too

[12:02] Lucy Afarensis: Arrived at the wrong moment it seems

[12:02] Blaksmith: c-ya Justincc

[12:02] Whump Linden sings "it's the end of the sim as we know it, and I feel ruthed." :)

[12:02] SachaMagne: could we involve mono's dev here ?

[12:02] Lucy Afarensis: darn

[12:02] chi11ken parts #osgrid-wp

[12:02] paulie Flomar: bye, ter

[12:02] paulie Flomar: bye, jcc

[12:02] Blaksmith: LOL Whump

[12:02] paulie Flomar: game over man, game over!

[12:02] Ter_afk: rick ruthed?

[12:02] nebadon: ok great meeting everyone

[12:02] nebadon: thanks for coming

[12:02] Whump Linden: cool

[12:02] Marlon Wulluf: yw

[12:02] Tiara Ewing: thanks

[12:02] nebadon: feel free to linger and torture the sim as you please

[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: big lag here

[12:02] Tiara Ewing: byeeee

[12:02] justincc parts #osgrid-wp

[12:02] Whump Linden: Happy Turkey Day to those who celebrate it.

[12:02] paulie Flomar: heh

[12:03] BlueWall Slade: haa thanks

[12:03] Teravus Ousley: yay, short week

[12:03] tchebbe Yongho: tehehe we have enough turkey to last Two years

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: heh back alive

[12:03] Whump Linden is thankfull for dedicated devs and testers all around.

[12:03] SachaMagne remember a nice youtupe video showing an alaskan wellknown personality and a turky...

[12:03] Teravus Ousley: .. what can I say?

[12:04] whump is now known as whump_food

[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: wow, whats wrong here.

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: whats wrong is the sim hasnt crashed?

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[12:04] BlueWall Slade: lol, I can't believe the sim ran the whole time!

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: yea me either

[12:05] BlueWall Slade: good job!!

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: did anyone watch the video i put on the screen?

[12:05] Marlon Wulluf: not yet, waiting for sim to slow down a bit

[12:05] Blaksmith Rubble: yah, this is great that it didn't crash

[12:05] Adam Genkii: it will play fine since it's using a diff server

[12:05] Blaksmith Rubble: it crashed a bunch of av's, but the sim itself didn't crash

[12:06] BlueWall Slade: it works

[12:06] BlueWall Slade: hehe, coool

[12:06] RiRa_DigiFly joins #osgrid-wp

[12:06] BlueWall Slade: Travis Barker?

[12:06] Teravus Ousley: I'm just exploring epic rubberbanding

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: this guys a maniac

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: he has 10 foot pedals on his drum set

[12:07] BlueWall Slade: He probably don't like my state too much anymore

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol new sport Ter?

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: using rubberbanding for extreme sportage?

[12:07] Teravus Ousley: feels kinda like the matrix

[12:07] Marlon Wulluf: anyone know what causes sim crossing block?,,ie when crossing a sim, I end up floating off to eternity

[12:07] Mikelo Serevi: boing-surfing

[12:07] Blaksmith Rubble: lol

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: usually its loss of communication with your neighbors sim

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: could be crashed

[12:08] Marlon Wulluf: it even happens witin my own regions

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: yea, opensim doesnt have good receovery abilities

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: even lag can do it

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: it will eventually right now its spotty at best

[12:09] melanie_t joins #osgrid-wp

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: most likely 2 things are lag or crashed sim

[12:09] Homer_Horwitz: Marlon: Search in mantis for "crossing" and you'll get quite a few possible causes.

[12:09] Mikelo Serevi: still, it's pretty cool

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: yea very

[12:09] melanie_t parts #osgrid-wp

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: somtimes you sail right over

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: others you sail right over to infinity

[12:09] Marlon Wulluf: I keep 1 eye on the console, and 1 on the av crossing, and sometimes, it works, and I see the request being processed, but other times, nothing is being processed by the region server

[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i think the length of time the sim was running can play a factor