Chat log from the meeting on 2007-10-30

[10:07] Tleiades: Hi [10:07]  Teravus Ousley2: Hello :) [10:08]  Tleiades: are we downstairs today? [10:08]  Nebadon Izumi: no physics today [10:08]  Tleiades: I think leaving out physics for today is safer [10:09]  Charles Krinkeb: I leave physics off and usually turn it on the night before the meeting. If it crashes twice in the 12 hours before, I leave it off. Otherwise I leave it on. [10:09]  Charles Krinkeb: This region is unique on OSGrid as it has the highest traffic of all regions. [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: im very happy to see the textres [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: textures [10:10]  Tleiades: advertising on the fronpage that people should use this for home, probably helps :) [10:10] Teravus Ousley2: :D [10:10] Charles Krinkeb: it is also unique in that it is running on the osgrid server along with the UGA, which has a 250mbps network interface. [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: al [10:10]  Nebadon Izumi: although my hippo is gone [10:10] Stefan Andersson: Oh yeah, I guess you all know the asset fuckups were all mine... [10:11]  Stefan Andersson: But Michael saved the day, quite literally since he spent most of a day hunting down my bug. :D [10:11] Charles Krinkeb: nebadon: The hippo should be back tomorrow. I had problems getting r2208 r unning and rolled back a week or so. [10:11] Stefan Andersson: But Michael saved the day, quite literally since he spent most of a day hunting down my bug. :D [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: yea beyond 2205 [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: is fubar [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: pretty much for grid servers [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: not a good idea to go beyond 2204 [10:11] Stefan Andersson: It's not fubar, just needs the grid be globally updated [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: well yea [10:12] Charles Krinkeb: no, lbsa, everythng that goes right is yours, mw, sdague and others. Everything that goes wrong is mine, nebadon, sakai. [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: but for this grid [10:12] Stefan Andersson: which is a bad thing, and really smells of LL rollouts [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: best to stay at 2204 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: for now [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: but stefan [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: on NEBADON2025 grid [10:12] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: hehe [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: i updated everything to 2205 [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: and it didnt work there either [10:12] Nebadon Izumi: so [10:12]  Stefan Andersson: Well.. I guess we need to think long and hard on stuff like using the built-in serialization for communication. [10:12] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: we've been on 2205 since yesterday [10:13] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: seems fine [10:13] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: (aussie yesterday) [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: i couldnt see see from server to server [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: once i did it [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll try it again later [10:13] Tleiades: question is, how do we handle grid wide assets, now that we have those in the code? [10:13] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: u mentioned u had a pooling prblem [10:14] Teravus Ousley2: that does seem to be the 'hot topic' for this week :D [10:14] Tleiades: brb .. coffe [10:14] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid says coffeee? inject redbull direct to bloodstream it's 4am! [10:14] Stefan Andersson: Well, as I've mentioned, it does make great sense to transfer the 'visible' assets to the region that is serving them, since they have live connections to all clients that are prospective consumers [10:15] Nebadon Izumi gets gets a OS-Cola [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:15] Tleiades: back [10:16] Tleiades: the current implementation, which is pretty simplistic does that [10:16] Charles Krinkeb: Well, I have a problem yet to be solved and that is that on OSGrid, r2090, r2144, r2153 & r2197 all lockup the GridServer after anywhere from 15 minutes to 3 hours or operation. [10:16] Stefan Andersson: Charles, I guess you and nebandon has to work out some way of getting over the 2205 hump? [10:16] Tleiades: the region server gets an asset request from the viewer [10:16] Tleiades: goes off to the asset server, and retrieves the asset [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: oh [10:17]  Tleiades: and then hands that asset over to the viewer [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: didnt we deterimine [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: its bringing up the map [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: that crashes it ? [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: or was that just a fluke? [10:17] Charles Krinkeb: The issue has been that all UGA tested after r2060 lockup the GridServer after a while. I am happy to test again, but if it locks up, I have no choice but to use r2060 until we figure it out. [10:18] Neas Bade: Back to basic physics I see [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i thought someone was saying that a few seconds after bringing up the map the grid server was crashing [10:18] Tleiades: who is working with you on that? [10:18] Charles Krinkeb: Optik reported and I confirmed on Sunday that bringing up the mainmap, selecting all the points of interest and then minimizing the mainmap, locked up the GridServer. Mw tried to confirm this test this morning and was not able to duplicate. [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: yea it didnt crash on my grid either [10:18] Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#493 describes this test. [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: so maybe its something isoldated to OSgrids UGA [10:19] Nebadon Izumi: isolated [10:19] Tleiades: do we have logs from a grid server running in debug mode, where it crashes? [10:19] Charles Krinkeb: Or maybe it is something isolated to the server setup. [10:20] Tleiades: well, a crash is a crash :) [10:20]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: (back reading catchup) [10:20]  Charles Krinkeb: not yet. I need to know the proper way to enable debug mode. Is it to change an .xml file or the debug=false variable initialization in OpenSimMain.cs [10:20]  Tleiades: when compiling using nant [10:21]  Tleiades: you have to add something about debug ... I had it written down somewhere [10:21]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll make the change and send logs to who? [10:21]  Tleiades: and then the opensim.ini verbose flag should be set to true [10:21]  Charles Krinkeb: Would you be willing to put the debug setup on the wiki and I will make a test on Saturday morning with the latest svn. [10:21]  Tleiades: add them to the bug [10:21]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll admit our public grid has been getting updates and restarts every dya [10:22]  Stefan Andersson: there's actually an int debug=0 in the code [10:22] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: but def a lot more than 1min to 3hrs [10:22] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: it never crashes like that [10:22] Stefan Andersson: that has to be changed to the right level [10:22] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok [10:22]  Charles Krinkeb: r2060 runs 24/7 for weeks on UGA [10:22] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll make those changes... [10:22]  Neas Bade: stefan, is there a good way to change that at compile time? [10:22] Stefan Andersson: There WAS a command for it on the console, but I don't know if it's still there [10:22] Neas Bade: via the build system [10:22] Tleiades: we need to press forward, roling back is not an option I think [10:23] Neas Bade: tleiades, agreed [10:23] Stefan Andersson: Uh, then, what's 2061? [10:23] Neas Bade: apparently chat modules in grid mode are funny at the moment, I was going to dive into that this afternoon [10:23] Charles Krinkeb: I agree also, but each test has failed. We do not have a stable GridServer at this point. [10:24] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: it's ur grid server that's falling over? [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: i think one differnce abot osgrid [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: is the many differnt servers [10:24] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: true [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: all spread out around the world [10:24] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: we only have a few remote... [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: yea same for me [10:24]  Charles Krinkeb: Our GridServer is locking up. Not throwing an exception, but not accepting new connections and the console is unresponsive. [10:24] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: can i throw this up then...? why do some regions just disapear... [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: osgrid is much more stressed than any other grid [10:24] Neas Bade: ckrinke, what's the bug where this is accumulating? [10:24] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: within the same SIM [10:24] Charles Krinkeb: Mantis#493 [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: comms [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: poor comes Sakai [10:25] danx2 danx0r: hey where are folks [10:25] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: within the same (physical server) [10:25] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ? [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: another thing also [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: as far as i can tell [10:25] Tleiades: here we are [10:25] Nebadon Izumi: IRC relay no longer functions [10:25] danx2 danx0r: did I miss yoga warmup? [10:25] Charles Krinkeb: yes [10:26] Tleiades: yes [10:26] Charles Krinkeb: 9 avatars, 118mbyte, 2% CPU [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: since about saturday [10:26] Teravus Ousley2 noted that most of the time the sims that you are connected to as a child agent seem to forget you're a child agent and start rejecting packets [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: IRC no longer works [10:26] Neas Bade: nebadon, I suspect that has to do with some of the chat stuff getting funny in grid more [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea [10:26] Tleiades: if nobody else is investigating this, I can do it [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: one thing i noticed [10:26] Neas Bade: I'll sign up for digging into that one [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: if you have IRC turned on [10:26]  Tleiades: I am kind of stuck at the moment anyhow [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: it takes several minutes to start a sim [10:26] Stefan Andersson: Now, on the 'pressing forward' issue, I've been working some on avatar appearance; it would be ace if somebody would work with me to implmenet appearance persistence. [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: it just sits about 3-4 minutes [10:27] danx2 danx0r: wondering why our feet are in the floor [10:27] Neas Bade: Tleiasdes, stuck on what [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: before it times out and starts [10:27] Stefan Andersson: They are at ground level. [10:27] Neas Bade: danx0r, basic physics [10:27] danx2 danx0r: aw :( [10:27]  Tleiades: stefan between you and MW, all my updates on persistance is completely wrecked :) [10:28] Tleiades: stuck on major overhauls [10:28] Stefan Andersson: that's what you get for committing seldom [10:28] Tleiades: stuck on major overhauls [10:28] Stefan Andersson: commit OFTEN [10:28] Nebadon Izumi: rofl [10:28] Stefan Andersson: BABYSTEPS GODDAMIT [10:28] Stefan Andersson: :D [10:28] Teravus Ousley2: hehe, I've got two patches now for you to inspect, danx0r :P [10:28] Tleiades: says the man who update 161 files in one go :) [10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:29]  Tleiades: well, it is a little difficult implementing gridmode inventory in babysteps [10:29]  danx2 danx0r: tevarus -- I'm on it [10:29]  Tleiades: either is is there, or it isn't [10:29]  Stefan Andersson: Yeah, by the way, is everybody in agreement that our base namespace should be OpenSim.Framework and that it should be solved by setting recursive=false? [10:29]  Tleiades: if only part is there, you have crashes in the viewer [10:29]  danx2 danx0r: but keep in mind, no one will use ODE much until we fix stability [10:29]  Stefan Andersson: THat will give us future problems if we want to add subnamespaces in the same assembly [10:29]  danx2 danx0r: I'll put the flag patch in soon [10:29]  Stefan Andersson: s/problems/nuisances/ [10:29]  Neas Bade: Stefan, I think it is cleaner not to do subnamespaces [10:30] Teravus Ousley2: :D the second patch is inertia. .. and it may help the stability problem a bit. [10:30] danx2 danx0r: yes I saw that [10:30] Stefan Andersson: Because, if I can get a consensus on the new name, I'll do the flattening tomorrow [10:30] Neas Bade: while it all looks fine and dandy to VS folks, just looking through code it gets confusing [10:30] danx2 danx0r: not sure it will help stability, it only applies to flying [10:31] Stefan Andersson: Neas uhh... you mean, not do subnamespaces in that assembly, or no subnamespaces at all within assemblies? [10:31] Tleiades: are we debating two topics at onc? [10:31] Tleiades: once? [10:31] Stefan Andersson: Yup [10:31] Teravus Ousley2: heh [10:31] Neas Bade: Stefan, I think we should coordinate with Tleiades on major tree changes, as I would like to see his code go in as soon as we can [10:31] Tleiades: ok, that is optimizing our time :-P [10:31] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I messages Katherine Berry asking if she would join us... she emailed back and I'll tlak to her in a moment [10:31] Stefan Andersson: Well then, I suggest he COMMITS [10:32] Tleiades: I have already switch strategy, in order to accomodate to the changes [10:32] Stefan Andersson is in Tleiades-bashing mode [10:32] Stefan Andersson: <3 [10:32] Tleiades: I'm focusing on updating server side code [10:32] danx2 danx0r: sceneobjectpart failed on patch2 [10:32] Neas Bade: ok, so lets chill on more tree restructuring until that is in :) [10:32]  Neas Bade: I'm very gun-ho on tree restructure, but I'd also like the grid assets :) [10:32] Tleiades: no, just go on [10:33]  Stefan Andersson: Okay; Tleiades, you tell me when you're done; Neas, it's OpenSim.Framework, no subnamespaces [10:33] Tleiades: I have found ways to adopt to the changes [10:33] Neas Bade: stefan: sounds good to me [10:33]  Stefan Andersson: Tleiades, I take it I can start restructuring? [10:33] Teravus Ousley2: patch is probably older then the revision. [10:33] Tleiades: yes, go ahead [10:33] danx2 danx0r: teravus -- apparently. [10:34] danx2 danx0r: sorry about that, shoulda done it sooner [10:34] Teravus Ousley2: I can make a hybrid patch :D [10:35] Neas Bade: danx0r, on the physics front, how can I dig in and tangibly help? I started futzing with physics yesterday on my internal env, and it only takes me a couple of minutes before I manage to do something that launches me into orbit then segfaults mono :) [10:35] Optik Philtr: im having the same sort of luck with scripting [10:35]  Optik Philtr: i need to do more reading [10:35]  Neas Bade: by the way, we should have a contest to get a screen shot of the highest person in OpenSim [10:35]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: loll [10:36]  Stefan Andersson: ... [10:36]  Optik Philtr: i would win [10:36]  Stefan Andersson: as in, altitude? [10:36]  Tleiades: :) [10:36] Neas Bade: yes, as in altitude [10:36] Stefan Andersson: Ah. [10:36] danx2 danx0r: neas -- [10:36] Stefan Andersson puts away his toke. [10:36] Neas Bade: heh [10:36] danx2 danx0r: you're sdague? [10:36] Neas Bade: yep [10:36] Neas Bade: danx0r, yes <= sdague [10:37] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: Um is there any area of interest that I should talk to KAtharine about ? [10:37] danx2 danx0r: we discussed a physics controller layer [10:37] Neas Bade: yep [10:37] danx2 danx0r: there needs to be a layer between engine and rest of code [10:37] Tleiades: who is Katharine? [10:37] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: shes the girl that made the Ajaxlife browser [10:37] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: she's very interested in becoming a part of the projhect [10:37] danx2 danx0r: ppl can't just edit terraform, etc willy-nilly [10:37] Tleiades: cool [10:37] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: and she'll IM me in a mom [10:37] Optik Philtr: she is actually a 42 year old man named cliff [10:38] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: i don't particularly mind who she wants to be but she's talented [10:38] danx2 danx0r: there needs to be a tighter coupling between object representation in main codebase and physics [10:38] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ;) [10:38]  Optik Philtr: exactly [10:39]  Stefan Andersson: Oh, by the way; MW and I have begun adopting the notion of having an 'anemic domain model' layer [10:39]  danx2 danx0r: so in a concrete sense -- [10:39]  Tleiades: I cannot think of anything, not at the moment, but I am only me :) [10:39] danx2 danx0r: what needs to be done is a pretty big refactoring [10:39] Tleiades: anemic domain model?!? [10:39] danx2 danx0r: and somewhat of a rearchitecture of how physics is dealt with [10:39] danx2 danx0r: maybe along the lines of what MW and others were proposing a while ago [10:40] Stefan Andersson: That is, an object layer with objects that are well suited as data containers, simple, serializable and not referenceing anything else but other anemic objects [10:40] Neas Bade: danx0r, ok do you have some sketching out of how you'ld like to tackle that? [10:40] danx2 danx0r: though it's been so long, and I know more nowthan I did then, so I'd want to go over it all again [10:40] danx2 danx0r: neas -- in my mind, yes [10:40] Stefan Andersson: Typically, the physics and entity layers would use anemic objects as common ground [10:40] danx2 danx0r: but I really, really need help from someone who understands the scene code [10:40] Tleiades: I'm way ahead on you on that "anemic" thing [10:40] danx2 danx0r: I just don't have time or ability to absorb the whole project [10:41] danx2 danx0r: but if someone else knows enough, we can sketch it out together [10:41] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: did u want to bounty some of it? [10:41] Stefan Andersson: Well, I'm reasonably up to date on scene entities... have anybody else been digging into it? [10:41] Tleiades: only on the surface [10:41] danx2 danx0r: stefan -- your help would be very appreciated [10:41] danx2 danx0r: tevarus, please chime in if you want [10:42] danx2 danx0r: tevarus has done some good patches, but I've been derelict [10:42] danx2 danx0r: r/l work took charge [10:42] danx2 danx0r: btw I got to go meet with a VC now [10:42] danx2 danx0r: so he can tell us he's not going to fund our co. [10:42]  Tleiades: it happens to all of us, from time to time [10:43] danx2 danx0r: but my boss needs to hear it from him [10:43] danx2 danx0r: ya I'd love to spend more time on this stuff [10:43] Neas Bade: danx0r thanks for the update and popping in [10:43]  danx2 danx0r: np [10:43]  Stefan Andersson: Well, danx2 - mail the dev list, and I'll be sure to respond [10:43] danx2 danx0r: I'll try to sketch out sme ideas this week [10:43] Stefan Andersson: Excellent [10:43] danx2 danx0r: yes dev list is best [10:43] Neas Bade: sounds great [10:44] danx2 danx0r: later folks [10:44] Neas Bade: later [10:44] Stefan Andersson: bye! [10:44] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ciao [10:44] Tleiades: does anybody know a good mono compression library [10:44] Optik Philtr: bye Danx [10:44] danx2 danx0r: teravus, not tevarus! [10:44] Tleiades: bye danx0r [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: hey Tleides [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: i noticed in Linux there is a libmono zip package [10:44] Tleiades: hi Nebadone [10:44] danx2 danx0r: is this logged on IRC? [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: let me get the name [10:44] danx2 danx0r: opensim-osgrid? [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: libmono-sharpzip [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: no its a linux package [10:45] Tleiades: the System.IO.Compression.GZipStream crashes on some versions of mono [10:45] Tleiades: I have found another one, but it is GPL'ed [10:46]  Neas Bade: Tleiades is that still the case with mono >= 1.2.4? [10:46] Tleiades: those are the only native ones I have found [10:46] Tleiades: yes, atleast the 1.2.4 I have running on my ubuntu [10:46] Neas Bade: hmmmm [10:47] Tleiades: but it depends, according to the mono bug report [10:47] Tleiades: for some it works, for others .. not [10:47] Optik Philtr: yes i did not have any problems on my ubuntu 7.10 install either [10:47] Tleiades: so we cannot really use it, until people are on a version of mono where it works [10:48] Tleiades: the upgrade from 7.04 to 7.10 was a smooth ride for me too [10:48] Tleiades: currently the servers use rest, for shipping data [10:49] Tleiades: that means that binary data gets tranferred in base64 encoding [10:49] Neas Bade: right, but 7.10 is still 1.2.4. And if there is a bug there, it is sort of a problem. That might require some more investigation. [10:49] Neas Bade: ah, which gets somewhat big? [10:49] Tleiades: the bug is there, in 1.2.4 for some people [10:50] Tleiades: yes, a little big, that is why I am looking into some sort of compression [10:50] Neas Bade: can we do it without compression first? [10:50] Neas Bade: just so compression doesn't gate us [10:50]  Tleiades: gate? [10:50] Neas Bade: prevent the rest of it from going in [10:50]  Tleiades: no [10:51]  Neas Bade: why not? [10:51] Tleiades: but it will not improve our responsiveness [10:51] Tleiades: but it will not improve our responsiveness [10:51] Tleiades: (I didn't type that twice) [10:51] Charles Krinkeb: theres a double once in a while [10:51] Tleiades: we can progress on the servers [10:51] Charles Krinkeb: minor, minor bug [10:52] Tleiades: without caring about compression, and put that in at a later time [10:52] Neas Bade: ok, cool [10:52] Tleiades: has anybody tried the grid mode assets? .. not that it makes much sense yet? [10:53] Charles Krinkeb: gotta scoot, sorry [10:53] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: er nope [10:53] Teravus Ousley2: http://bug.opensecondlife.org/view.php?id=530 .. I've updated the objectproperties patch to the latest revision http://bug.opensecondlife.org/view.php?id=530 [10:54] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: explain the try'? [10:54] Neas Bade: Tleiades, on the internal grid we've got it doesn't work much at the moment [10:54] Neas Bade: though I'll have to figure out what rev the servers are all on at the moment [10:55] Tleiades: strange it works for me, but there are some leaks [10:55] Tleiades: the size of the asset database grows and grows, the backed textures are never removed from the asset database [10:55] Neas Bade: tleiades, any ideas on what rev things started working at? [10:56] Tleiades: let me take a peek [10:57] Tleiades: 2194 [10:57] Tleiades: you need to activate it in OpenSim.ini [10:57] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: dok [10:57] Tleiades: and of course, run the asset server [10:58] Neas Bade: right :) [10:58]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: with which command? [10:58]  Tleiades: asset_database = grid [10:58]  Nebadon Izumi: that i assume will kill all current sqlite assets? [10:59]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok this is for MySQL stor ecorrect? [10:59]  Tleiades: and offcourse, asset_server_url needs to be valid [10:59]  Neas Bade: yep [10:59]  Tleiades: I have only tested this on mysql [10:59]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: i have no SQL table for that do i? [10:59]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: (i don't remmy) [10:59]  Tleiades: yes.. there is now conversion/upgrade code [11:00]  Tleiades: the MySql provider will automagically do that [11:00]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok [11:00]  Neas Bade: nice [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: so it reads your sqlite .db [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: and pushes it to grid? [11:00]  Tleiades: no [11:00]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: well I'll turn it on [11:00]  Neas Bade: ++ tleiades [11:00] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: and provide some feedback [11:00] Tleiades: well.. I need feedback on what works, and what doesn't work [11:01] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok [11:01]  Tleiades: so if people don't use it, it'll never get fixed and stable [11:01] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: well we'll ppund it.. [11:01] Optik Philtr: i will enable it as soon as i get home [11:01] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: pound [11:01] Neas Bade: Tleiades, I'll get it activated here this afternoon, and help drive out bugs [11:01] Tleiades: cool.. that'll be good [11:02] Optik Philtr: we will ppund it as well, just to make sure [11:02] Neas Bade: didn't realize that it was even working [11:02] Neas Bade: :) [11:02]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: any logs u'd like with this too? [11:02]  Neas Bade: stuff like that probably deserves and email to the -dev list so people know that it is in and they should kick the tires [11:02]  Adam Frisby: Allo allo! [11:02]  Tleiades: the asset server and grid server should log all the relevant stuff [11:02]  Neas Bade: hey Adam [11:02]  Tleiades: if "verbose=true" [11:02]  Optik Philtr: hey hey Adam [11:02]  Tleiades: hello Adam [11:02]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: ok [11:02]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: G'Day Adam [11:03]  Adam Frisby: Just got back into Perth then. heh. [11:03]  Neas Bade: welcome to our happy office hours [11:03]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: TP eh? [11:03]  Optik Philtr: ah perth, so pretty with all tha big trees [11:03]  Tleiades: most logs are "notice" level, so "verbose=false" will make 'em go silet [11:03]  Tleiades: silent, even [11:04]  Neas Bade: oh, one last thing, given all the Daylight Savings Time changes, do we want to move this back an hour so that it ends up the same real time in the northern hemisphere? [11:04] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: well now is 5am [11:04] Optik Philtr: im good actually, any excuse for a long lunch [11:04] Tleiades: moving it one hour would be good for me, 8PM is easier than 7PM for me [11:05]  Adam Frisby: Someone needs to put the IRC bridge up for these [11:05] Adam Frisby: better chance of me not missing it. heh. [11:05] Neas Bade: Adam, IRC bridge, as well as chat in grid is "funny" at the moment [11:05] Neas Bade: previously this all was bridged [11:06] Adam Frisby: OK, we should take a look at maybe using a IRC lib or something for the bridge - that way it handles errors more gracefully. [11:07] Neas Bade: yes, probably a good idea [11:07] Tleiades: remind me, why aren't we using jabber? [11:07] Tleiades: remind me, why aren't we using jabber? [11:07] Tleiades: I forgot [11:07] Adam Frisby: We looked at it for IRC messaging quite a bit. [11:07] Neas Bade: because no one has written it yet [11:08] Adam Frisby: Unfortunately there's two reasons why we arnt using it for that: [11:08] SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: hehe [11:08] Neas Bade: :) [11:08]  Adam Frisby: a) We cant impersonate users which we need since IM's are fundementally from the sim. [11:08] Adam Frisby: b) There's no decent licensed .NET implementations (all closed source) [11:08]  Tleiades: ok.. sounds like two good reasons [11:09]  Tleiades: in the long run a is worse than b, I think [11:11]  SakaiSS OpenlifeGrid: I'll b back gotta meet Ajaxlife gurl [11:11]  Optik Philtr: ok [11:11]  Tleiades: yes.. I think I'll dig into some code [11:11]  Tleiades: anything else we need to discuss? [11:11]  Neas Bade: I don't think so [11:11]  Optik Philtr: me too, hopefully i wont keep screwing it up [11:11]  Neas Bade: plus our hour is up [11:12]  Neas Bade: thanks all for popping in [11:12]  Tleiades: like wis [11:12]  Tleiades: wise [11:12]  Tleiades: I'll post as usual [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool