Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-10

[2012/07/10 11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [2012/07/10 11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [2012/07/10 11:03] VivK Lowlag: hi justin [2012/07/10 11:04] Robert Adams: if you're running 64 bit Windows, you can go as high as you want [2012/07/10 11:04] Richardus Raymaker: thats what i think to, but i hear different stpries [2012/07/10 11:04] BlueWall Slade: the stories are wrong [2012/07/10 11:04] Richardus Raymaker: some say opensim is not 64bit [2012/07/10 11:04] BlueWall Slade: the stories apply to some large array data structure support [2012/07/10 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.3.1 is 64 bit but might not work very well in that mode [2012/07/10 11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin [2012/07/10 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: yes, the run behind... so i keep on my own believe that i hav eno limit with opensim.. good to know for my mega [2012/07/10 11:05] Key Gruin: hello folks [2012/07/10 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: 0.7.4 should be better [2012/07/10 11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi Key [2012/07/10 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: at least for windows [2012/07/10 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: mono has always been fine with 64 bit [2012/07/10 11:05] VivK Lowlag: Hi Key [2012/07/10 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hi key [2012/07/10 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, sifar i run every region as opensim.exe and it runs fine (0.7.4dev) the 32bit version give me quick problems with lag [2012/07/10 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi key [2012/07/10 11:05] BlueWall Slade: Hi Nebadon [2012/07/10 11:05] VivK Lowlag: Hi Neb [2012/07/10 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hell [2012/07/10 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [2012/07/10 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello* [2012/07/10 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi neb [2012/07/10 11:06] Robert Adams: there is both a 32 bit and 64bit version of ODE with standard OpenSim [2012/07/10 11:06] Richardus Raymaker: yes [2012/07/10 11:06] Richardus Raymaker: and i dont like the 32bit version [2012/07/10 11:07] Robert Adams: we didn't used to distribute the 64bit one in the standard checkout so, for a long time, one could only run 32bit Windows [2012/07/10 11:07] Robert Adams: but now that's fixed [2012/07/10 11:07] Richardus Raymaker: the last osgrid version i compiled myself on windows (64bit windows) [2012/07/10 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: so, anybody tried the latest bullet physics yet? :) [2012/07/10 11:09] Robert Adams: I do all my development on 64bit windows... have had only one problem with ODE under high load [2012/07/10 11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: ode slips sometimes on banana yes :O [2012/07/10 11:09]  Mike Kayaker: hehe [2012/07/10 11:09]  Robert Adams: not much has changed... I'm debugging linksets and vehicles as we speak [2012/07/10 11:09]  Key Gruin: oh has Bullet progressed a lot in the last few months? [2012/07/10 11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: but that system did have a broken memory plate to.. still waiting for new [2012/07/10 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I have seen some bug reports recently on assertions being triggered in ode [2012/07/10 11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: good one key, not heared mych [2012/07/10 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, I saw Robert had made a big update recently but I did't realize there was still a lot more going on :) [2012/07/10 11:10] Robert Adams: that's the one, justin [2012/07/10 11:10] Robert Adams: I've looked at the code and I don't see why it would only assert sometimes [2012/07/10 11:10] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen the assertion to yes [2012/07/10 11:11] Robert Adams: ya, I made some changes to Bullet a few days ago [2012/07/10 11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: do you have any feeling for whether it's triggered by bad numbers in the simulator going into physics or the other way around? [2012/07/10 11:11] Robert Adams: I have a few more commits in the pipeline, so to speak [2012/07/10 11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I see some reports associate it with strange positions numbers, etc. [2012/07/10 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's not something I've seen myself [2012/07/10 11:12] Richardus Raymaker: for me it happend when the train did go underground. [2012/07/10 11:12] Robert Adams: I keep finding odd interactions between OpenSim and the physics engine [2012/07/10 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: viewer poofed one me [2012/07/10 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: robert: yes, the interaction code seems bizarre [2012/07/10 11:12] VivK Lowlag: nirans? [2012/07/10 11:12] Richardus Raymaker: then prims moved to not correct places when i pulled it up. after that it seems the region where already dieing [2012/07/10 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya i was using Nirans [2012/07/10 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: relogged with Zen [2012/07/10 11:13] VivK Lowlag: your a cloud atm [2012/07/10 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: there's a lot of horrible stuff going on with pulling values back and forth - and I think there are issues with updating prims and races [2012/07/10 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya everything is still loading here [2012/07/10 11:13] Richardus Raymaker: there you are neb [2012/07/10 11:14] Robert Adams: the latest was that when you unlink, the physics actor is destroyed and recreated when the SOG is recreated [2012/07/10 11:14] Robert Adams: that is done before the actual delink call is made to the physics engine [2012/07/10 11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: niiiiice [2012/07/10 11:14] Robert Adams: but that looses the information about who the parent is [2012/07/10 11:15]  Robert Adams: well, it just happens to work for ODE because ODE does not really delete the object when asked... it just marks it for deletion later [2012/07/10 11:15] Robert Adams: that means that when the delink call is made to the physics engine, the information just happens to still be available [2012/07/10 11:16] Richardus Raymaker: only problem i have seen this week and nebadon told it last time. items ended into trash when i did a take from the region. [2012/07/10 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I though that was lost = found [2012/07/10 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: er, lost + found [2012/07/10 11:16] Richardus Raymaker: i found mine back in trash [2012/07/10 11:17] BlueWall Slade: heh, something's making changes to the folder id in some "black hole" [2012/07/10 11:17] Richardus Raymaker: still not sure why, cant remeber that i have rezzed anything out of there. i think thats not possible to [2012/07/10 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes its trash too when you take your own stuff [2012/07/10 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: its always lost and found when you take a copy of someone elses stuff [2012/07/10 11:18] Richardus Raymaker: does osgrid have a bermuda triangle > good to know then i dont place my sims there [2012/07/10 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: also there is an issue with sending people a folder [2012/07/10 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: like a folder of animations or something [2012/07/10 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: totally kills the sim still [2012/07/10 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: new debugging shows it pretty clearly happening [2012/07/10 11:19] Richardus Raymaker: well it really did go to trash in my vase.. i did asome invenmtory trash empty so it where easy to spot [2012/07/10 11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: new debugging? [2012/07/10 11:19] VivK Lowlag: how much of that is do to the size of each animation file? [2012/07/10 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya it prints out the name of who does it now [2012/07/10 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: that seems new [2012/07/10 11:20] VivK Lowlag: say if you have 40 animations each the size of over 700kb [2012/07/10 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: well, you're not literally sending the assts [2012/07/10 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt size of the animation has anything to do with it VivK [2012/07/10 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: its just a list of UUIDs [2012/07/10 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: you're sending the uuids, so that shouldn't have any effect [2012/07/10 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: exactly [2012/07/10 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: size has nothing to do with it [2012/07/10 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: and the triple inventory i get. if someone gives object. indeed that soudns a bit like the connection from the sim/internet to, but its keeping painfull job to organize things [2012/07/10 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: it's probably network and being done synchronously or smoething [2012/07/10 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but everytime it happens the sim freezes up at Lbsa Plaza [2012/07/10 11:21] Richardus Raymaker: hard to trace the double inventory give. [2012/07/10 11:21] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, only see sim freeze still with group IM [2012/07/10 11:21]  Richardus Raymaker: do you neot mean transfer objects to Hypergrid avatars ? that seems to look a region [2012/07/10 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: transfer to hg would be different since that probably does involve a data transfer [2012/07/10 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya these are 2 local avatars [2012/07/10 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lets see if it happens here [2012/07/10 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: didnt happen here [2012/07/10 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: odd [2012/07/10 11:23] Robert Adams: Robert Adams is getting ready for t he relog [2012/07/10 11:23] VivK Lowlag: :) [2012/07/10 11:23]  BlueWall Slade: fixed [2012/07/10 11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: i did have a short lag spike 1 round ago [2012/07/10 11:23]  BlueWall Slade: :D [2012/07/10 11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: it happend here for me, or its that i get to cxlose to simborder [2012/07/10 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: it seems to freeze the sim [2012/07/10 11:25]  VivK Lowlag: if anyone would lag it would be me at the moment for sure [2012/07/10 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: until the other party accepts [2012/07/10 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: let me send that again justin [2012/07/10 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: but don't accept it [2012/07/10 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: uh [2012/07/10 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey was writing an e-mail [2012/07/10 11:25]  Nebadon Izumi: oh hmm ya i think v3 auto accepts stuff [2012/07/10 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: anyone here running non v2/v/3? [2012/07/10 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: no, I have those things queued - I didn't accept them [2012/07/10 11:26] VivK Lowlag: me [2012/07/10 11:26]  BlueWall Slade: o/ [2012/07/10 11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: i run singularity [2012/07/10 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: don't accept this [2012/07/10 11:26] VivK Lowlag: Imp [2012/07/10 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: it's possible v3 is using caps for inventory give rather than udp [2012/07/10 11:26] Dahlia Trimble: hi [2012/07/10 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I don't know that for sure [2012/07/10 11:26] Richardus Raymaker: lag [2012/07/10 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [2012/07/10 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya it is lagging still [2012/07/10 11:26] BlueWall Slade: Hello Dahlia [2012/07/10 11:26] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [2012/07/10 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa seems to suffer worse [2012/07/10 11:26] Dahlia Trimble: why laggy? [2012/07/10 11:27] VivK Lowlag: well my ping here isn't the best [2012/07/10 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: i have 180ms [2012/07/10 11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: so there's a different beween item and folder? [2012/07/10 11:27] BlueWall Slade: ok, waiting [2012/07/10 11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: difference [2012/07/10 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: normal for the distance [2012/07/10 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: froze for like 10 seconds when i send to bluewall [2012/07/10 11:27] BlueWall Slade: still waiting [2012/07/10 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya it seems to be folder [2012/07/10 11:27] BlueWall Slade: ok, axccepting... now [2012/07/10 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: which i assume is just a big list of uuids [2012/07/10 11:27] BlueWall Slade: accepted [2012/07/10 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: somtimes it hangs Lbsa for 1-2 minutes [2012/07/10 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: when someone sends a folder with 40 items [2012/07/10 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: ending folders work never anymore for me.. [2012/07/10 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: viewer say you cant move more objects.. [2012/07/10 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: things like that [2012/07/10 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: that folder i just sent everyone had 40 items exactly [2012/07/10 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [2012/07/10 11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks waves hello to everyone [2012/07/10 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: hello Andrew [2012/07/10 11:28] Dahlia Trimble: hi [2012/07/10 11:28]  VivK Lowlag: hi Andrew [2012/07/10 11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Almost forgot about this meeting. [2012/07/10 11:28] BlueWall Slade: hi Andrew [2012/07/10 11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: hello andrew [2012/07/10 11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Last week I had turned off sound on my PDA so it couldn't beep at me to remind me. Today it beeped but I thought I would finish one last thing then login. [2012/07/10 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/07/10 11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Half an hour later.. I suddenly remember I was supposed to be logging in here. :-) [2012/07/10 11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Is Nebadon testing for lag or has he had too much coffee? [2012/07/10 11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: maby both ? [2012/07/10 11:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: :-) [2012/07/10 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: oops [2012/07/10 11:30] VivK Lowlag: both can cause jitters [2012/07/10 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ok note to self [2012/07/10 11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: I saw him running around [2012/07/10 11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so instant messages are handled synchronously rather than sync out of LLClientView [2012/07/10 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: trying to send yourself a folder of animtions = get naked [2012/07/10 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2012/07/10 11:31] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [2012/07/10 11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: and inventory give is an im [2012/07/10 11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: and it travels through the inventroy service routines [2012/07/10 11:31] Caro Fayray: hi everyone [2012/07/10 11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: so it doesn't surprise me if it's slow.... [2012/07/10 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: well slow is one thing [2012/07/10 11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: what you might want to try is making the im async [2012/07/10 11:31] BlueWall Slade: Hi Caro [2012/07/10 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: why does it kill the entire sim? [2012/07/10 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: how? [2012/07/10 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: is that a setting [2012/07/10 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ? [2012/07/10 11:32] Dahlia Trimble: prolly a deadlock ;) [2012/07/10 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: No, it would be a code hack unfortunatley [2012/07/10 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: oh hrmm [2012/07/10 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: line 5170 in LLClientView [2012/07/10 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: AddLocalPacketHandler(PacketType.ImprovedInstantMessage, HandlerImprovedInstantMessage, false); [2012/07/10 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: wouldnt even know where to look ah ok let me look [2012/07/10 11:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: change the false to true [2012/07/10 11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: where is LLClientView? [2012/07/10 11:33]  Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks wonders about "Improved IM" [2012/07/10 11:33]  Dahlia Trimble: you should have seen it before it was improved lol [2012/07/10 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/LLClientView [2012/07/10 11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, if you could try that it would give us an idea of whether these are safe to handly asynchrnously [2012/07/10 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: to be hones,t I don't see why not [2012/07/10 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i am at > OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden [2012/07/10 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and i see UDP and Caps [2012/07/10 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: folders [2012/07/10 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: oops, in UDP [2012/07/10 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ah yea just found [2012/07/10 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: kk looking [2012/07/10 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh, this is why it gets confusing when dir names don't align with package names [2012/07/10 11:35] Dahlia Trimble: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ImprovedInstantMessage [2012/07/10 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: and what do I change it too? [2012/07/10 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: im confused [2012/07/10 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: change it to true [2012/07/10 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [2012/07/10 11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: this gopverns wjhether a packet from the client is handled synchronously or async [2012/07/10 11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: if it's sync then the op has to complete before any other incoming packet is handled [2012/07/10 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: figures, Lbsa is packed [2012/07/10 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/07/10 11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: In fact, anything sync has the apcity to pause incoming data [2012/07/10 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i made the change i'll recompile it in a bit [2012/07/10 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, please test. I don't have time right now to look into this myself [2012/07/10 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ok will do [2012/07/10 11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: its not a huge deal, just kind of a bummer [2012/07/10 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: it is a problem [2012/07/10 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: people tend to pass folders of stuff to noobies [2012/07/10 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and Lbsa constantly freezing all day [2012/07/10 11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus made all those decisions originally and I don't know why for each one [2012/07/10 11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, logger [2012/07/10 11:38] logger sewell: hey :) afaternoon all [2012/07/10 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: how freaking weird [2012/07/10 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: i just noticed with Zen viewer [2012/07/10 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello ogger [2012/07/10 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: logger [2012/07/10 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: if i cam out a certain distance, like 20 metters from an avatar [2012/07/10 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: they spin 90 degrees in their chair [2012/07/10 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: I cam back and they spin back normal [2012/07/10 11:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: Ah I see - I'm hearing someone's client through their voice channel :) [2012/07/10 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: must be an Impostor bug [2012/07/10 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: rotating impostors improperly [2012/07/10 11:39] VivK Lowlag: turned avatar impostors off? [2012/07/10 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol i was like why is bluewall sitting sideways [2012/07/10 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/07/10 11:39] BlueWall Slade: haa [2012/07/10 11:40] Yoshiko Fazuku: inspector neb finds an imposter! sounds like a plot for a novel [2012/07/10 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: IN fact, I would hope a lot of those falses could go away [2012/07/10 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: right here it flips [2012/07/10 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: at this distance [2012/07/10 11:40] BlueWall Slade: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/IntegrationService [2012/07/10 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: every one has the capcity to hold up inbound packet processing, but one or two are necessary at this poitn [2012/07/10 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya i'll give it a shot [2012/07/10 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: if there is anything else you think is worth of testing let me know [2012/07/10 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: we'll give it a shot [2012/07/10 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: best to focus on one at a time though [2012/07/10 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: let's start with this [2012/07/10 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/07/10 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: exactly [2012/07/10 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: if it helps (which I suspect it will) then we can set true for real, but it needs a little thought [2012/07/10 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/07/10 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa is a good testing point [2012/07/10 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: things that break seem to really break good there [2012/07/10 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: BlueWall: you did some more work on that? [2012/07/10 11:44] logger sewell: but that should make it easyer to find :) [2012/07/10 11:44]  Yoshiko Fazuku: btw thanks neb for turning me on to that folage genarator @ cantree [2012/07/10 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: no problem [2012/07/10 11:44]  BlueWall Slade: I have been running it a while and it's stable [2012/07/10 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: its great [2012/07/10 11:44]  BlueWall Slade: so, I'll get it to a branch [2012/07/10 11:44]  Yoshiko Fazuku: i made some nice sculpty trees with it [2012/07/10 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: cool [2012/07/10 11:44]  BlueWall Slade: it would be graet to get that in the next release, so I'm commiting to work on it [2012/07/10 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: ya sculpty tree is great too [2012/07/10 11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: err snappy tree i mean [2012/07/10 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: mesh, but still the trees are great [2012/07/10 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: you want to try to get that into 0.7.4? [2012/07/10 11:45] Key Gruin: oh didn't know you could do sculpty with that [2012/07/10 11:45] Yoshiko Fazuku: didnt use snappy [2012/07/10 11:45] BlueWall Slade: if possible, it would be good [2012/07/10 11:45] Richardus Raymaker: pretty in love with the snappy tree's fix a big problem for me. now only the right viewer [2012/07/10 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: you can't Key Gruin [2012/07/10 11:45] Yoshiko Fazuku: just used the camtree to make the leaf textures [2012/07/10 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: but you can use Cantree for the leaves [2012/07/10 11:45] Key Gruin: ahh ok [2012/07/10 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: you could even use that on regular prim trees [2012/07/10 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ok, my current plan is to put out a 0.7.4.rc1 hopefully on Friday August 3rd [2012/07/10 11:46] Key Gruin: nice [2012/07/10 11:46] Richardus Raymaker: not tried cantree [2012/07/10 11:46] BlueWall Slade: if not, then in can go in later. But, it doesn't touch other modules. [2012/07/10 11:46] Yoshiko Fazuku: it looks as good as botanicals [2012/07/10 11:46] BlueWall Slade: it does need some clean-up work, so as I get feedback, I'll update it [2012/07/10 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: cool. [2012/07/10 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: It can always be marked as experimetnal at first, right? [2012/07/10 11:46] BlueWall Slade: sure [2012/07/10 11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: so people don't use it in 'production' :) [2012/07/10 11:47]  Dahlia Trimble: I usually mark anything as "experimental" lol [2012/07/10 11:47]  BlueWall Slade: it's not required - in fact, I want to "crowd source" an API for web development [2012/07/10 11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: alpha, experimental :) [2012/07/10 11:47] BlueWall Slade: so, that would be desireable until those are ready [2012/07/10 11:48] BlueWall Slade: and, we can't really get development of the plugins underway until it's in core. [2012/07/10 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe negative beta? [2012/07/10 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2012/07/10 11:48] BlueWall Slade: lol [2012/07/10 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: could you give an example of the kind of plugin this would allow? [2012/07/10 11:49] BlueWall Slade: well, I have one that handles landtool out there [2012/07/10 11:49] BlueWall Slade: the landtool.php calls it instead of plundering the databse [2012/07/10 11:50] BlueWall Slade: I have been working on one to synchronize users [2012/07/10 11:50] BlueWall Slade: and manage estates [2012/07/10 11:50] BlueWall Slade: and a money module [2012/07/10 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: nice [2012/07/10 11:51] Yoshiko Fazuku: me would kill to have php support in the built in opensim webserver.... [2012/07/10 11:51] BlueWall Slade: I could see groups possibly going that route too [2012/07/10 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: that will never happen [2012/07/10 11:51] BlueWall Slade: groups or php? [2012/07/10 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: groups does need a robust implemetnation [2012/07/10 11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: php. The built-in c# webserver will never be exnteded to that [2012/07/10 11:52] BlueWall Slade: what happens when using pgp for those things (or python, etc.) is the other tasks that trip people up [2012/07/10 11:52]  BlueWall Slade: with these plugins, they can create and maintiain tables with migrations [2012/07/10 11:52] BlueWall Slade: and, these are loaded from a repository [2012/07/10 11:53] BlueWall Slade: reight now, the best information on it is on http://bluewallvirtual.com [2012/07/10 11:53] BlueWall Slade: I put up some instructions there to show what happens, and instructions to run it [2012/07/10 11:53]  BlueWall Slade: have some example plugins in a repository there [2012/07/10 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I suspect it won't get many eyeballs until this stuff is in master [2012/07/10 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: that's the way it tends to go [2012/07/10 11:54]  BlueWall Slade: I think it is enough for user/amin docs to get it running [2012/07/10 11:54] logger sewell: sounds very interesting though [2012/07/10 11:54] BlueWall Slade: I will hammer out some development docs about implementing a plugin and setting up a repository [2012/07/10 11:54] BlueWall Slade: one thing about this... [2012/07/10 11:55] BlueWall Slade: it uses the same facilities we have in region modules [2012/07/10 11:55] BlueWall Slade: but, the region modules were never completed to use it [2012/07/10 11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I thikn the regio modules have issues [2012/07/10 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: they have to do some ridiculous stuff for operations that should be easy [2012/07/10 11:55] BlueWall Slade: after the kinks are worked out of this, we could do a little work on the region modules loader to have it operate the same way [2012/07/10 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: like having to keep their own scene lists, etc. [2012/07/10 11:56]  BlueWall Slade: we can probably organize lots of code better [2012/07/10 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: and it should be possible to enable/disable modules from the outside, not have to duplicat ecode within each module to handle enable/disable [2012/07/10 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: well yes :D [2012/07/10 11:56] BlueWall Slade: yes, that is the idea [2012/07/10 11:57] BlueWall Slade: but, they need some work [2012/07/10 11:57] Dahlia Trimble: ya but if you redesign region modules everyone's stuff breaks [2012/07/10 11:57] BlueWall Slade: these plugins have that [2012/07/10 11:57] BlueWall Slade: setup/teardown [2012/07/10 11:57] Richardus Raymaker: what stuff can break then ? [2012/07/10 11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly better to have a next generation region module and keep the old stuff in place [2012/07/10 11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: but try and get it right this time [2012/07/10 11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I missed something. What was the reference to landtools and something about groups never going that way? [2012/07/10 11:57] BlueWall Slade: Dahlia, true, but the changes aren't major [2012/07/10 11:57] Richardus Raymaker: its still alpha, and betetr improve code and break things now then when your out of alpha [2012/07/10 11:57] Richardus Raymaker: depends what breaks [2012/07/10 11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks keeps distracting himself by continuing to dig for contact info for an actor. [2012/07/10 11:58] Dahlia Trimble: I have lots of region modules that arent in core, I wouldnt want to rewrite them, Im sure others do as well [2012/07/10 11:58] BlueWall Slade: ++ [2012/07/10 11:59] BlueWall Slade: but, if it makes the environment better and more reliable, then it's a good tradeoff? [2012/07/10 11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i think it is [2012/07/10 11:59]  Dahlia Trimble: its not a good tradeoff if I have to stop what Im doing to rewrite a bunch of region modules [2012/07/10 11:59] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev          1f34c82: 2012-06-13 04:05:02 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [2012/07/10 11:59] BlueWall Slade: And, mainly what I see is the need to properly tear down the module if you want to disable/unload it. [2012/07/10 11:59] Dahlia Trimble: if you want to design a better one make it an addition, dont break the existing interfaces [2012/07/10 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I think unloading modules is an unnecessary complication [2012/07/10 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: it certainly doesn't work properly now [2012/07/10 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: It might be a different stroy on the robust side since that's far less complex [2012/07/10 12:00] BlueWall Slade: I suspect that is why we have crashes when shutting down sometimes [2012/07/10 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: but on the simulator side it introduces a ton of complexity for very little gain imo [2012/07/10 12:00] Richardus Raymaker: the you can only go for second generation modules [2012/07/10 12:00] BlueWall Slade: yes, less stuff to deal with there [2012/07/10 12:01] BlueWall Slade: but, with the region modules, we already have 2 ways to load them [2012/07/10 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, the old way was meant to be deprecated [2012/07/10 12:01] BlueWall Slade: that's screwed up [2012/07/10 12:01]  BlueWall Slade: and the new way is unfinished [2012/07/10 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it is - but nobody ever got round to converting the older stuff [2012/07/10 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: it is? [2012/07/10 12:01] BlueWall Slade: having 2 [2012/07/10 12:02] Richardus Raymaker: curious how many get problems with the remote admin change [2012/07/10 12:03] BlueWall Slade: I suppose that the new way could be finished and we could tell if modules are ready for it... [2012/07/10 12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: there is no remote admin change [2012/07/10 12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: in what way is the 'new' way unfinished? [2012/07/10 12:03] BlueWall Slade: then handle them with the new way, and load the older ones like we do now [2012/07/10 12:04] BlueWall Slade: we have lots of modules that aren't updated + some of the facilities seem to be used wrong. [2012/07/10 12:04] BlueWall Slade: the mono-addins loading [2012/07/10 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I would call that not updated rather than unfinished [2012/07/10 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: it's possible using mono-addins was not the best idea [2012/07/10 12:04] Richardus Raymaker: let me post the text from wiki [2012/07/10 12:04] BlueWall Slade: but, those can wait for a rainy day [2012/07/10 12:04] Richardus Raymaker: "Caution ! All commands using parameters for the uuid of a region use "region_id" as parameter. All other parameters eg. region_uuid or regionID will be removed after June 2012" [2012/07/10 12:05] Richardus Raymaker: small change with remote admin [2012/07/10 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: wel, people will just have to update their code [2012/07/10 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: some stuff is gonna break, that's just how it is [2012/07/10 12:05]  Richardus Raymaker: its a good check how many are uptodat :O [2012/07/10 12:05] BlueWall Slade: one thing - I want to look at the command names in this service to make sure they allign with what we have now [2012/07/10 12:06] Dahlia Trimble: wasnt there an issue just a couple weeks ago with someone's grid and a closed source region module that isnt compatable with core anymore? [2012/07/10 12:06] Dahlia Trimble: it was in this meeting I thought [2012/07/10 12:06] BlueWall Slade: that was a money module from 0.6.9 [2012/07/10 12:06] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia thats indeed a few weeks ago in mailinglist [2012/07/10 12:07] BlueWall Slade: and it was coded directly against the database [2012/07/10 12:07] Dahlia Trimble: I thought it was a region module [2012/07/10 12:07] BlueWall Slade: the changes between ugaim and robust killed that [2012/07/10 12:07] Dahlia Trimble: with the mono addins stuff [2012/07/10 12:07] BlueWall Slade: hmmm, that money module is the only one I know about [2012/07/10 12:08] Dahlia Trimble: it was in this meeting [2012/07/10 12:08] BlueWall Slade: the one Andrew is de-compiling [2012/07/10 12:08] BlueWall Slade: is that the one? [2012/07/10 12:08] Dahlia Trimble: maybe thats it [2012/07/10 12:08]  BlueWall Slade: yeah, several issues with that [2012/07/10 12:08] logger sewell: thats one that was for the 7.1 [2012/07/10 12:09] Yoshiko Fazuku: why useing closed sourced modules is bad hehe [2012/07/10 12:09] BlueWall Slade: but, anyways, we should be able to make it so that older modules wouldn't need to be changed, or at least not much [2012/07/10 12:09] Dahlia Trimble: or not at all [2012/07/10 12:09] BlueWall Slade: hehe [2012/07/10 12:09] BlueWall Slade: it's the 90's [2012/07/10 12:09]  BlueWall Slade: gotta change [2012/07/10 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go. See you guys around [2012/07/10 12:09] BlueWall Slade: :S [2012/07/10 12:10] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [2012/07/10 12:10] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin [2012/07/10 12:10] Dahlia Trimble: bye [2012/07/10 12:10] logger sewell: i said that in the 70's [2012/07/10 12:10]  BlueWall Slade: hehe [2012/07/10 12:10] Robert Adams: bye, Justin [2012/07/10 12:10] logger sewell: \tc Justin [2012/07/10 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey waves [2012/07/10 12:10] BlueWall Slade: if we make changes, then it will have to be a strong consideration