Chat log from the meeting on 2012-01-31

[2012/01/31 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: if your visiting lots of grids [2012/01/31 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hypergrid or not [2012/01/31 11:03] they need to upgrade their opensim code [2012/01/31 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it can happen [2012/01/31 11:03] especially if one has osgrid and standalone accounts [2012/01/31 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: something with the viewer cache [2012/01/31 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [2012/01/31 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hello nebadon, folks [2012/01/31 11:04] Sarah Kline: hi Justin [2012/01/31 11:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi justin [2012/01/31 11:04] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Hi Justin [2012/01/31 11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin [2012/01/31 11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [2012/01/31 11:05] dan banner: hi justin [2012/01/31 11:05] Shenn Tao: hi all [2012/01/31 11:05] Shenn Tao: nice to see you [2012/01/31 11:05] Arielle Popstar: in imp i had 5 unknown users listed this morning but in astra i see none [2012/01/31 11:05] Sarah Kline: hi Shenn [2012/01/31 11:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hello [2012/01/31 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: well different viewers will have differing resutls [2012/01/31 11:05] Shenn Tao: bonjour demoiselle Sarah [2012/01/31 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: they do not share that information [2012/01/31 11:06] Mimetic Core: i'm seeing it in V3 [2012/01/31 11:06]  Sarah Kline: i see it too [2012/01/31 11:06] Sarah Kline: not often [2012/01/31 11:06] Richardus Raymaker: i have for now 2 unknown [2012/01/31 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: everyone does [2012/01/31 11:06] Sarah Kline: lbsa [2012/01/31 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/01/31 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: anyone who visits multiple grids [2012/01/31 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: its eventually going to happen [2012/01/31 11:06] Taarna Welles: not yet [2012/01/31 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: what is? [2012/01/31 11:06] Arielle Popstar: i used imp when i was testing older region code though [2012/01/31 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the Uknown User issue [2012/01/31 11:06] Mimetic Core: although this viewer is reserved for OSG only [2012/01/31 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: oh - I thought there was a fix for that? [2012/01/31 11:06] Mimetic Core: with it's own cache folder [2012/01/31 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: not that I know of [2012/01/31 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: the only fix I know is clear the viewer cache [2012/01/31 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: imprudence has a option to clear just User Name cache [2012/01/31 11:07] Richardus Raymaker: i dont have problems with unknown users. i no cloud avatras i preffer first [2012/01/31 11:07] Arielle Popstar: i see a lot less clouds lately [2012/01/31 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I see 3 clouds here currently [2012/01/31 11:08] dan banner: same [2012/01/31 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Justin, Shenn and Claudia [2012/01/31 11:08] Holger Muc: me too [2012/01/31 11:08] Claudia Sanz: ooo [2012/01/31 11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [2012/01/31 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: some of the time clouds are going to be client problems [2012/01/31 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm surprised I'm a cloud though [2012/01/31 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/01/31 11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: justin is hideing for something [2012/01/31 11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm on a hiding to nothing [2012/01/31 11:09] Taarna Welles: You all just appeared for me now [2012/01/31 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: now only Claudia [2012/01/31 11:09] Richardus Raymaker: there's justin [2012/01/31 11:09] Claudia Sanz: Claudia Sanz is listening to Tool [2012/01/31 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: and now claudia is ok [2012/01/31 11:10]  Arielle Popstar: probably need a toggle rather a rebake claudia [2012/01/31 11:10] Claudia Sanz: hi [2012/01/31 11:10]  Arielle Popstar: here she comes [2012/01/31 11:10] Sarah Kline: yes all good now [2012/01/31 11:10] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: May I ask everyone a side question? [2012/01/31 11:10] Shenn Tao: beauty need time :)) [2012/01/31 11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: blue: sure [2012/01/31 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: sure Blues [2012/01/31 11:10] Claudia Sanz: :) [2012/01/31 11:10]  Shenn Tao: in many ways )) [2012/01/31 11:10]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: I have a sister - teacher who has a clss of 'special needs' children....autistics, underdeveloped socially for example) She has no expeience with VWs and I have suggested a 'protected' grid for her to see if that can help interactivity with her students. Does anyone have a contact in education I could refer her to to get the best mentoring on how she should proceed? SL is not her option. Opensimulator I think should be her path. [2012/01/31 11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: blues: I recommend that she join the opensim educators list and ask there. Lot of helpful people there [2012/01/31 11:11] Richardus Raymaker: The idea is nice blue. someway i say to myself its nice for them, to learn things [2012/01/31 11:11] Arielle Popstar: pathfinder maybe [2012/01/31 11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists [2012/01/31 11:11] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: ty all [2012/01/31 11:12] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: any developments on alternate physics engines? [2012/01/31 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: blues: intel did a bit of work on bullet - I suspect there's more to come [2012/01/31 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: Intel is working on it, but yes, there is still a lot to do [2012/01/31 11:13]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: crossing fingers [2012/01/31 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i tried to test it yesterday [2012/01/31 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but i could not get the latest Bullet to run on x64 linux [2012/01/31 11:13] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: how did you find it so far? [2012/01/31 11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Rober Adams from intel who is working on it will not be back until tommorow [2012/01/31 11:14] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: I'm running Mac osx [2012/01/31 11:14] Nebadon Izumi: well right now i can't even get the simulator to start [2012/01/31 11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so not real good [2012/01/31 11:14] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: sigh [2012/01/31 11:14] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect if i changed my testing over to Windows i would get further [2012/01/31 11:14] Nebadon Izumi: i figured i would just wait and talk to Robert [2012/01/31 11:15] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: how is the newest 7.3 opensim working? [2012/01/31 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: we definately need something better though [2012/01/31 11:15] Richardus Raymaker: we need bullet for 64bit linux [2012/01/31 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i did some tests with ODE yesterday [2012/01/31 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: and it didnt go well either [2012/01/31 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: no crashing or anything [2012/01/31 11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: vehicles again? [2012/01/31 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: just horribly poor performance [2012/01/31 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: no [2012/01/31 11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i was trying to make a row of dominos fall [2012/01/31 11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: did you try reducing contacts? [2012/01/31 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: it was horribly bad [2012/01/31 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: hmm i can't remember what its set for there [2012/01/31 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: basically what i did was setup a dozen prims like dominos [2012/01/31 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: they were 1.0 x 0.5 x 0.15 [2012/01/31 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: made em physical and tried knocking over 1st one setting off chain reaction [2012/01/31 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it literally took about 15 minutes for 12 dominos to fall over [2012/01/31 11:16] Sarah Kline: slow motion [2012/01/31 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: it was like 1 frame per minute [2012/01/31 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2012/01/31 11:17] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: has anyone experimented with any other engines? [2012/01/31 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I don't think so [2012/01/31 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing anyone is sharing or will ever share [2012/01/31 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive heard people talk about wanting to try Nvidia Physx [2012/01/31 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but that would probably take years to work out with only or 1 or 2 people working on it [2012/01/31 11:18]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: I was trying to get an API for Havk4 but we have no one able to write an interface in C# for us [2012/01/31 11:18]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm. not sure it runs nice. as long mono get time to work on the CG. offcorse am almost hit the 4GB use on my server [2012/01/31 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: people have been trying to make bullet work for atleast 3 years now [2012/01/31 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadoN if YOu get a chance, could you try the commit before e20cf37 to see if that has a performance difference? [2012/01/31 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: nobody has been trying with bullet consistently [2012/01/31 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: sure [2012/01/31 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats true Justin [2012/01/31 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not exactly 3 continuous years [2012/01/31 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and thats really my point [2012/01/31 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: with only 1 or 2 folks working on it [2012/01/31 11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: it will take long time [2012/01/31 11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it's not as if they're writing thep hysics engine - they just need to interface with it [2012/01/31 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/01/31 11:19]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think it's perfectly doable with 1 person if they already understand physics engines [2012/01/31 11:19] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: How could we get an advertised forum to focus on it worldwide?...like a competition for bragging rights [2012/01/31 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: when Adam started the Deep Think physx roject [2012/01/31 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: which went no where [2012/01/31 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: he estimated that if it was just him working on it [2012/01/31 11:19]  Nebadon Izumi: it would take him about a year to get things working [2012/01/31 11:20] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: It gets lonely for one or two working alone...needs to be fun [2012/01/31 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's an over-esimate [2012/01/31 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but I think physix is a bit more complex than ODE and Bullet [2012/01/31 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of interfacing it with opensim [2012/01/31 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but the use of them doesn't need to be compileda [2012/01/31 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: really, we're just asking the physics negine to handle objects and a few other things [2012/01/31 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: most of the work is probably tuning [2012/01/31 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/01/31 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: but we havent even gotten ODE doing that correctly yet [2012/01/31 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/01/31 11:21] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: how about a tuning fous thn?....a get together of minds? [2012/01/31 11:21] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: focus [2012/01/31 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: problem is not many people understand physics [2012/01/31 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its very complex math [2012/01/31 11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes, but I've only been working a few months and then not full time [2012/01/31 11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: and tbh, ODE is not that hot [2012/01/31 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya I know I am not trying to make light of it by any means [2012/01/31 11:22] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: it's so hard when it's volunteer time and there is so much else one has on their plate [2012/01/31 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: and my focus has not been on improving physics - it's been on tidying the code up enough to make it comprehensible and to stop it crashing [2012/01/31 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I am just saying with limited resources it will take time to get any physics engine working correctly [2012/01/31 11:22] Richardus Raymaker: well, whats going up comes down.. :) [2012/01/31 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: it took Linden Lab over a year [2012/01/31 11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: to upgrade from Havok 3 to Havok 5 [2012/01/31 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, anybody is free to look at the physics plugins and ask questions in irc/mailing lists [2012/01/31 11:22]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: anyone ex Linden Labbers who may get onboard? [2012/01/31 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: I doubt it, since they would be nervous about ip issues [2012/01/31 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: none I know of currently [2012/01/31 11:23]  Arielle Popstar: how about an info session on the basics [2012/01/31 11:23]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: how about an advertized competition of some ilk? [2012/01/31 11:24]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: and yes an INFO sesion would be highly prized [2012/01/31 11:24]  Arielle Popstar: i saw they used to have a group for coding opensim back a few years ago [2012/01/31 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure the terms basics and physics engine is a fit [2012/01/31 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/01/31 11:24] Arielle Popstar: too bad it no longer around [2012/01/31 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: if anybody wants to run a competition then that's great [2012/01/31 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya the problem is getting people to Volunteer [2012/01/31 11:24] Richardus Raymaker: oh, not phyx. but newer viewers seems to have problems with logging out ? i think its viewer. but aby also opensim ? [2012/01/31 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if we were paying people, i am sure we would have people linded up to commit good code [2012/01/31 11:25] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Well I'd love to be involved...an offer space...but I'm a no show as far as code understanding [2012/01/31 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: but getting people especially those who are accustomed to being payed for their work to volunteer is tough [2012/01/31 11:25] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Sometimes people will see pay as 'other than cash' [2012/01/31 11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I just remembered a student I mentored for a GSoC project later wrote a 2D physics engine. Its been used in some games he wrote. Don't know if the source for that would be of any help. [2012/01/31 11:25] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: A lot of RL people contribute for the joy [2012/01/31 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: oh sure, OpenSim wouldnt be where we are if it wasnt for people volunteering [2012/01/31 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but, hunting for people to volunteer [2012/01/31 11:26] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: exactly [2012/01/31 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: is a different beast [2012/01/31 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: people have to want to on their own [2012/01/31 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise its a battle [2012/01/31 11:26] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Well....I am not aas valuable to you all...other than being a hunter...so I'll hunt [2012/01/31 11:27] Arielle Popstar: for some of us who would like to learn more it is difficult to get a start [2012/01/31 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: sure that would be great [2012/01/31 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I am certainly not trying to discourage you [2012/01/31 11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: You need people who have an interest in seeing a particular feature working and have the time and skills to work on the code. [2012/01/31 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: hi pickle [2012/01/31 11:27] pickle flagon: Hello [2012/01/31 11:27] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: a clas in Physics...i'd be in big time [2012/01/31 11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I recommend reading the book "Game Physics Engine Development" [2012/01/31 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: there are certainly a lot of people who have never even heard of OpenSim [2012/01/31 11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: it's the simplest introduction that I've seen [2012/01/31 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: i wish i knew C# code, but there's already so uch to learn [2012/01/31 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: well most Physics engines are C++ Richardus [2012/01/31 11:28] Arielle Popstar: there are good youtube tuts for c# [2012/01/31 11:28]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: The closer we get to SL functionality the more people will take notice of opensimulator [2012/01/31 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: thats some language i not done really to. maby 5 lines :O [2012/01/31 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: not even sure ive seen a full blown C# physics engine [2012/01/31 11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any information about the state of the Bullet code and what work still needs to be done? [2012/01/31 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: though im sure its been attempted [2012/01/31 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: SO, i keep my busy with other things. info, lsl :) [2012/01/31 11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nobody will write a physics engine in c# since the gc will screw with you every time [2012/01/31 11:28]  Arielle Popstar: but learning how it applies to opensim is much more difficult [2012/01/31 11:28]  Andrew Hellershanks: Is it implementing math type stuff or fixing bugs or both? [2012/01/31 11:28]  Nebadon Izumi: I guess it depends [2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: things like the Basic Physics [2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: and Zero physics [2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: those are C# [2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: arent they [2012/01/31 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but they're not physics engines [2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: but i also would not call them full blown physics engines either [2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/01/31 11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: not even a ghost of an engine [2012/01/31 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/01/31 11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: and they suffer from whqat opensim suffers from, which is pauses by the gc [2012/01/31 11:29]  Arielle Popstar: gc? [2012/01/31 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: garbage collection [2012/01/31 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: garbage collector [2012/01/31 11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... just before you slam your car in to the wall the gc kicks in and pauses you there for a second so you can contemplate what is about to happen [2012/01/31 11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: ;-) [2012/01/31 11:30]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: I'll research a list of hat engines are out there for next week if you'd all like...( I'm sure Justin and Neb know them all tho) [2012/01/31 11:30]  Arielle Popstar: loll [2012/01/31 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: there are not many options [2012/01/31 11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: lol andrew [2012/01/31 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: the only other viable option for opensim i suspect is Physx [2012/01/31 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: Havok is out of the question [2012/01/31 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: why? [2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: that leaves Bullet, ODE, Phsyx [2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: well the licnesing costs [2012/01/31 11:31]  Arielle Popstar: Ubit has done some good work on the existing physics [2012/01/31 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: its incredibly expensive [2012/01/31 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: does physcx not give problems with opensim. because lack of hardware support on the opensim server ? [2012/01/31 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: Phyx has a software mode [2012/01/31 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that runs on CPU [2012/01/31 11:31] Richardus Raymaker: ok, thats nice [2012/01/31 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but in terms of Havok [2012/01/31 11:32] Richardus Raymaker: its anice engine. but where is the expert [2012/01/31 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: Intel owns Havok [2012/01/31 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: and the Intel guys can't even use Havok [2012/01/31 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: without buying a full blown license [2012/01/31 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: which is very expensive [2012/01/31 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: it appears you can get havok for free [2012/01/31 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: http://www.havok.com/sales [2012/01/31 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: win32 only though [2012/01/31 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yes but its statick DLL no source [2012/01/31 11:32] Richardus Raymaker: but............... [2012/01/31 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: so? [2012/01/31 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: and its for non commercial only [2012/01/31 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: so? [2012/01/31 11:33] Richardus Raymaker: does opensim not use many static dll's ? [2012/01/31 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: well all I know is LL [2012/01/31 11:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: one could still support it [2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: spent a year modifying the Havok source code [2012/01/31 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: to make it work [2012/01/31 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey shrugs [2012/01/31 11:33] Richardus Raymaker: osgrid is non comemrcial right ? so repsonsibility of region ? but make things complex [2012/01/31 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I think one of the big differences is [2012/01/31 11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: its not meant to be a server side physics [2012/01/31 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: its a client side physics engine [2012/01/31 11:33] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Titanium Jones has Havoc4 but sys he needs an API [2012/01/31 11:34] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Is that because he's running Mac OSX Robust? [2012/01/31 11:34] Richardus Raymaker: aha client havoc api. hmm [2012/01/31 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: no Blue, its much more complicated than that [2012/01/31 11:34] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: does it have to talk to server side even though it runs client side? [2012/01/31 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its not client side [2012/01/31 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: in SL and OpenSim all physics are server side [2012/01/31 11:35] Arielle Popstar: would have to be otherwise we all see it differently? [2012/01/31 11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I imagine it would suck for client side physics to have to update all the clients in the scene [2012/01/31 11:35] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Intel will provide the4 for non profits ...we haven't found a way to ue it yet [2012/01/31 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yes Arielle [2012/01/31 11:36] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: oh I get it...ty Arielle and Neb [2012/01/31 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya it not as simple as just dropping it in and having it work, like Justin said you need to make the Interface (API) [2012/01/31 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its the same for any physics engine [2012/01/31 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: well anyway, perhaps we should move on to any other opensim topics [2012/01/31 11:37] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: sure [2012/01/31 11:37] Richardus Raymaker: is the logout freeze with newer viewer opensim or viewer problem. it seems to hang [2012/01/31 11:37] Arielle Popstar: any ideas on the mega issue Simpy had? [2012/01/31 11:37] Richardus Raymaker: think its viewer [2012/01/31 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: it's probably some kind of opensim issue [2012/01/31 11:38] Richardus Raymaker: ok.. [2012/01/31 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Arielle, Simpy was simply pushing his hardware too hard [2012/01/31 11:38] Arielle Popstar: ok [2012/01/31 11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: and his network [2012/01/31 11:38] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: justin ... [2012/01/31 11:38] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5856 [2012/01/31 11:38] Arielle Popstar: relief [2012/01/31 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: while his server is nice [2012/01/31 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: his Xeon chips are Pentium 4 level xeons [2012/01/31 11:38] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: there was a patch on that that touched some of your code dealing with some inconsistent attachment state [2012/01/31 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: single core x 2 physical cpus [2012/01/31 11:39] Richardus Raymaker: with HT [2012/01/31 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/01/31 11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: and running 49 regions in 1 simulator [2012/01/31 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: is going to kill that machine [2012/01/31 11:39] Sarah Kline: lol [2012/01/31 11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ).) [2012/01/31 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: thanks - I'll tryu to take a look tomorrow [2012/01/31 11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, I applied it [2012/01/31 11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe.. if you have som eprims sure [2012/01/31 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: he had 60000 prims [2012/01/31 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2012/01/31 11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: when you get a chance, see what you think - I see no bad affects so far [2012/01/31 11:40] Richardus Raymaker: i think it just crash on memory useage / linit with windows [2012/01/31 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: I applied a few patches to core the past few days [2012/01/31 11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: i wanted to leave the mantis open until you had a look [2012/01/31 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: did you see that through git blame? [2012/01/31 11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [2012/01/31 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: some good stuff [2012/01/31 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect I just copied that code [2012/01/31 11:41] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Has anyone been using the old meerkat viewer? I loved it but recently it errors out [2012/01/31 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'd like to take a look anyway [2012/01/31 11:41] Richardus Raymaker: meerkat, it never where stable. [2012/01/31 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I highly doubt anyone is using meerkat [2012/01/31 11:41] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the test that it was doing didn't catch it either way, lol [2012/01/31 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: heh [2012/01/31 11:41] Arielle Popstar: saw the notecard embed [2012/01/31 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, most of my tests are basic stuff [2012/01/31 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I only usually elaborate to catch a bug of when I'm trying to udnerstand a piece of code atm [2012/01/31 11:41] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ [2012/01/31 11:42] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if you think it's ok, then maybe close it as resolved [2012/01/31 11:42] Fu Barr: Fu Barr used meerkat in 1783... but has moved on to using his imprudence based abacus [2012/01/31 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: nah, leave it open for now - I would like to take a quick look [2012/01/31 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: today I have to work on other things [2012/01/31 11:42] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohhh, yeah - that is what I meant [2012/01/31 11:43] Fu Barr: I must agree though - i did like meerkat :) [2012/01/31 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok :) [2012/01/31 11:43] Richardus Raymaker: question: about double items in inventory. do the get different uuid's to ? its one of the big buggers you always loose track of what you have. [2012/01/31 11:43] Claude Florimond: I forget meerkat totally... [2012/01/31 11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: for you to have a look when you can [2012/01/31 11:43] Richardus Raymaker: or it must be client side lag ? [2012/01/31 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Most of the relevant patches that were in Meerkat [2012/01/31 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ended up in Imprudence [2012/01/31 11:43] Arielle Popstar: any ideas yet for a osgrid supported v3 viewer? [2012/01/31 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: Kokua seems to be making steps forward [2012/01/31 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: thats likely the best bet right now [2012/01/31 11:44] Arielle Popstar: nod [2012/01/31 11:44] Richardus Raymaker: Yes. kokua seems the future... [2012/01/31 11:44] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: I'm using Imp now...I like the latet. Phoenix s well and Firestorm is differnt but nice [2012/01/31 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: other TPV projects seem to have little interest/motivation to get involved [2012/01/31 11:44] dan banner: long way from being complete tho [2012/01/31 11:44] Arielle Popstar: i used it to upload a fair sixed mesh with no crashing [2012/01/31 11:44] Arielle Popstar: sized^ [2012/01/31 11:45] Richardus Raymaker: i try to understand the sl3 xml files. but hard to find correct information [2012/01/31 11:45] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: anyone know the best method to import from sketchup to opensim? [2012/01/31 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: there is no good way [2012/01/31 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: heh [2012/01/31 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the most reliable method i found [2012/01/31 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: was to use an OBJ exporter [2012/01/31 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: its a plugin for sketchup [2012/01/31 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: let me get you link 1 sec [2012/01/31 11:46] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: omg ty [2012/01/31 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=33448 [2012/01/31 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/u/0/101558395514182710128/posts/fcdNmti2w7e [2012/01/31 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: as you can see in that last link [2012/01/31 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i was able to import a model of the RaspberryPi motherboard [2012/01/31 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: from sketchup to Blender to OpenSim [2012/01/31 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it gets a bit tricky though with textures [2012/01/31 11:47] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: you have to use Blender then as the intermediary [2012/01/31 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: Sketchup is absolutely horrible at making models [2012/01/31 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: ^ afree [2012/01/31 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: they are extremely inneficient [2012/01/31 11:47] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: what's the best program you know for a neophyte? [2012/01/31 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: agree, more intressted in simple mesh painter [2012/01/31 11:47] Arielle Popstar: do textures have to be baked onto the mesh in blender or 3d max before upload? [2012/01/31 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: the only program I can say is Blender [2012/01/31 11:48] Richardus Raymaker: meshlab crash here or get nuts (memory leak) [2012/01/31 11:48] Richardus Raymaker: Blender, i know not easy to start with [2012/01/31 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: CGcookie has some great tutorials [2012/01/31 11:48] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: I tried Archipelis last year [2012/01/31 11:48] Sarah Kline: wings 3D is a fairly basic one [2012/01/31 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: http://cgcookie.com/blender/get-started-with-blender/ [2012/01/31 11:48] Sarah Kline: better to bite the bullent and learn Blender [2012/01/31 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: Wings3D is nice, but very limited [2012/01/31 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/01/31 11:49]  Sarah Kline: bullet* [2012/01/31 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I agree, Blender is better start if your starting from scratch [2012/01/31 11:49] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Wish there was a 'standard' more used for common people [2012/01/31 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: evenutally Wings3D will fail you [2012/01/31 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and you will be moving to blender anyway [2012/01/31 11:49] Richardus Raymaker: agree, blender good to create to [2012/01/31 11:49]  Sarah Kline: yup [2012/01/31 11:49] Fu Barr: Fu Barr has a beginners course for sculpties and blender in the works... [2012/01/31 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: awesome Fu barr [2012/01/31 11:49] Fu Barr: I'll spam the relevant channels whn I'm ready to present it [2012/01/31 11:49]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Ok ty ...Blender t will have to be then I guess [2012/01/31 11:49] Arielle Popstar: nice Fu [2012/01/31 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: nice Fu, when did you sneaked in ? [2012/01/31 11:49] Sarah Kline: Mesh Fu [2012/01/31 11:49]  Taarna Welles: Woot Woot Fu! [2012/01/31 11:50] Sarah Kline: teach mesh gigles [2012/01/31 11:50] Fu Barr: when you lot where being technical and talking about yer gc [2012/01/31 11:50]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: have you got a link Fu Barr? [2012/01/31 11:50] dan banner: he floated in [2012/01/31 11:50]  Fu Barr: Fu Barr waves at some of the peeps not seen in a long time :) [2012/01/31 11:50]  Fu Barr: link to the non-existant class... nope. i;m good, but not that good :) [2012/01/31 11:51] Arielle Popstar: i could use some gc for some of the meshes i already imported [2012/01/31 11:51] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: gc? [2012/01/31 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I have been trying to get a hold of Diva to try to address the teleport home to OSgrid after HG out of grid issue [2012/01/31 11:51] Arielle Popstar: garbage collection :) [2012/01/31 11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: grand canyong [2012/01/31 11:51]  Richardus Raymaker: i wish blender did have some less options non 1 page [2012/01/31 11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: I think i see whats wrong, but have no idea how to fix the problem or if its even really the problem [2012/01/31 11:51]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: lol [2012/01/31 11:52]  dan banner: oh teleport home broke? [2012/01/31 11:52]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          ea72428: 2012-01-19 23:09:16 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [2012/01/31 11:52]  Sarah Kline: oh it had worked for me ok [2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com/7beqp5Pd [2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: ya I saw others were having trouble [2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: so I tested it [2012/01/31 11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: I couldnt either [2012/01/31 11:52]  Fu Barr: learning 'blender' is 18months of wrk... but learning to use a subst of features to get stuff done for us in opensim - is a much smaller and more manageable effort. [2012/01/31 11:53] Sarah Kline: ah [2012/01/31 11:53]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: That's the part I want [2012/01/31 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect this is the problem [2012/01/31 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: 00:42:46 - [GATEKEEPER SERVICE]: Verifying http://hg.osgrid.org against http://hg.osgrid.org:80 [2012/01/31 11:53] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: is there a tutorial just for that part? [2012/01/31 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the URLs don't technically match [2012/01/31 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: even though they technically do [2012/01/31 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [2012/01/31 11:53] Richardus Raymaker: createing, and maby more painting mesh [2012/01/31 11:54] Fu Barr: @blues - there will be when i finish it and you come and join th hordes on my regions when it start running :) [2012/01/31 11:54]  Arielle Popstar: similar issue i have with gg to my standalone with my osgrid avi [2012/01/31 11:54]  Richardus Raymaker: filter the :80 from the comparision ? [2012/01/31 11:54]  Arielle Popstar: gg=hg [2012/01/31 11:54]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: Will be pleased to Fu Barr [2012/01/31 11:54]  dan banner: you have :80 in all the uri's in robust? [2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: yes Dan [2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: and it only fails when you do teleport home [2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: so it must be something in that function [2012/01/31 11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: how it requests the URL [2012/01/31 11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: if i do hg.osgrid.org:80:OKC Tower [2012/01/31 11:55]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: can tp back to other regions? [2012/01/31 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: which is my home [2012/01/31 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: it goes [2012/01/31 11:55] Arielle Popstar: its what the viewer reports [2012/01/31 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: yes BlueWall [2012/01/31 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: if i use the HG url to my home region it goes right away [2012/01/31 11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I know I have never been able to tp from here to my dev grid [2012/01/31 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: its only when i do a ctrl+shift+h [2012/01/31 11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I suppose from anywhere [2012/01/31 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: or use home on the menu it fails [2012/01/31 11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it gives a similar message [2012/01/31 11:55] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: btw Titanium Jones has implemented 2 tests in Nirvana...Vivox and Virwox [2012/01/31 11:55] Arielle Popstar: its a limitation of some routers Blue [2012/01/31 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya all normal teleports for me are ok [2012/01/31 11:56]  Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: omc and voice [2012/01/31 11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i of course can't speak for everyone though [2012/01/31 11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i rarely Hypergrid [2012/01/31 11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i can TP from my home sim to my own grid. also from lbsa it works fine [2012/01/31 11:56] Blues.Spiritor @gridnirvana.net:8002: is HG not the future of the internet in 3D? [2012/01/31 11:56] Richardus Raymaker: but still run on older version [2012/01/31 11:56] Nebadon Izumi: Perhaps Blues [2012/01/31 11:56] Arielle Popstar: its been an issue since .7.1 [2012/01/31 11:56] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: mine would probably work if I port forwarded my workstation to the outside [2012/01/31 11:57] Richardus Raymaker: this problem started with the new config lines ? [2012/01/31 11:57] Arielle Popstar: ai ai first reported it in mantis a year and a half ago [2012/01/31 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: I really don't know, thats why i need diva to look at that pastebin [2012/01/31 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/01/31 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the problem in OSgrid [2012/01/31 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: is our Proxy NGINX [2012/01/31 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: if the URL is even slightly not right [2012/01/31 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its going to fail [2012/01/31 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: it complicates things a bit [2012/01/31 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is likely the only grid using a proxy for HG right now [2012/01/31 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: maybe ScienceSim is too [2012/01/31 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but they run SimianGrid [2012/01/31 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: so its not the same at all [2012/01/31 11:59] Arielle Popstar: Justin is too quiet [2012/01/31 11:59] Arielle Popstar: he must be plotting ;) [2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: so its one reason OSgrid has more issues [2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: than say teleporting between 2 standalones [2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: or even other smaller grids [2012/01/31 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm writing a commit message [2012/01/31 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know enough about current hg details to contribute [2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: ya, i suspect Diva will know better whats going on [2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: HG code is here spider web [2012/01/31 11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: here=her [2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: problem is shes been pretty busy lately and not much time [2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: she has a large class this semester [2012/01/31 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: 130 students or something [2012/01/31 12:00] Fu Barr: bleh - that all NCPs... i recon [2012/01/31 12:01] Fu Barr: NPCs sowwy [2012/01/31 12:01] pickle flagon: sorry to interrupt there when did all u guys meet for this great pic [2012/01/31 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: that picture was from a Virtual Worlds convention a few years ago [2012/01/31 12:01] pickle flagon: cool [2012/01/31 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: the name of the convention eludes me, Justin will remember though [2012/01/31 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: pff [2012/01/31 12:02] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSimulator one a trophy [2012/01/31 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no idea [2012/01/31 12:02] Nebadon Izumi: one=won [2012/01/31 12:02] Nebadon Izumi: lol you were there [2012/01/31 12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/01/31 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: one one person in that photo still exists [2012/01/31 12:02] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [2012/01/31 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the CIA tracked the rest of them down [2012/01/31 12:02] Richardus Raymaker: only 1 ? [2012/01/31 12:02] Nebadon Izumi: well Jeff occasionaly pops his head up [2012/01/31 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: adjohn and mikem are in IRC on occasion [2012/01/31 12:03] Nebadon Izumi: but ya thier contributions have fallen off [2012/01/31 12:03] Richardus Raymaker: aha :( [2012/01/31 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: Adam still donates alot of the hardware OpenSimulator and OSgrid uses to stay open [2012/01/31 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that's very true [2012/01/31 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: Charles is probably the only one i can say I have no clue what he is doing anymore [2012/01/31 12:04]  pickle flagon: i didnt mean to get u guys off topic hehe [2012/01/31 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe thats ok Pickle [2012/01/31 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I have to go anyway [2012/01/31 12:04]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [2012/01/31 12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya the meeting is pretty much at our Hour anyway [2012/01/31 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: See you around, folks [2012/01/31 12:04]  Richardus Raymaker: dont get lost in the matrix [2012/01/31 12:04]  pickle flagon: bye justin come to lbsa im always there [2012/01/31 12:04]  Fu Barr: bye justin! [2012/01/31 12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: me too. see you all next week [2012/01/31 12:04] dan banner: later justin [2012/01/31 12:04] Arielle Popstar: maybe they working on phuysics engines [2012/01/31 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Justin, thanks for coming [2012/01/31 12:05] Arielle Popstar: tc Justin [2012/01/31 12:05] dan banner: later bluewall [2012/01/31 12:05] Sarah Kline: byes [2012/01/31 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey waves [2012/01/31 12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye [2012/01/31 12:05] Master Dubrovna: bye jcc