Chat log from the meeting on 2010-12-21

[09:45 AM] pfifo Firelyte is Online [09:45 AM] AEH Solo is Online [09:45 AM] Key Gruin is Offline [10:01 AM] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/UCI%20edu1/217/207/72 [10:01 AM] The region you have entered is running a different simulator version: OpenSim 0.7.1 Dev          a6a136b: 2010-12-20 14:24:52 -0800 (Unix/Mono) [10:06 AM] Basil Sosides: Hi [10:08 AM]  Basil Sosides: Hi Nebadon [10:08 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:10 AM] Basil Sosides: OS is geting better and better [10:10 AM] Basil Sosides: since the last weeks [10:10 AM] Nebadon Izumi: great :) [10:10 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: were working hard to make it better [10:10 AM]  Basil Sosides: oh, i beleave that [10:11 AM]  Basil Sosides: what do you think, when will the new Imprudence come out? [10:11 AM]  Basil Sosides: (with fixed Audio) [10:14 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: im not sure, they are on break right now [10:14 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: they will be getting back to programming in January [10:14 AM]  Basil Sosides: ok [10:14 AM]  Basil Sosides: i think so too [10:16 AM]  Basil Sosides: have a nice Evening [10:16 AM]  Basil Sosides: bye [10:16 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya have nice day :) [10:20 AM] paulie Flomar is Online [10:27 AM] You decline F1 Car Red box Steam Vendor MK5 1 is located at Wright Plaza <47.39262, 182.986, 22.27328> from Steam Vendor MK5 1, an object owned by Garry Beaumont,. [10:48 AM] Richardus Raymaker is Online [10:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:48 AM] Jacek Antonelli: Hi Neb :) [10:48 AM]  Script saved [10:49 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: hows your break been? enjoying the down time? [10:49 AM]  Jacek Antonelli: Yes, very much! [10:49 AM]  Richardus Raymaker is Offline [10:49 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: nice :) [10:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: im using Imprudence 1.4 experimental at the moment with HTTP fetch enabled [10:50 AM] Nebadon Izumi: something wierd with 1.3 and HTTP enabled [10:51 AM] Nebadon Izumi: seems to work really well in this version of 1.4 im using though [10:51 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello Richardus [10:51 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi nebadon. [10:51 AM] Richardus Raymaker: 1.4 works fine. for me [10:51 AM] Master Dubrovna: Hi guys [10:51 AM] Nebadon Izumi: cool [10:51 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hello master [10:51 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you have HTTP Texture Fetching enabled? [10:51 AM] Master Dubrovna: Yes 1.4 works good for me too [10:52 AM] Richardus Raymaker gave you RiRa, Merry Christmas 2010. [10:52 AM] Richardus Raymaker: no. did not know it works here [10:52 AM] Master Dubrovna: I have it turned on [10:52 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i have it enabled at the moment [10:52 AM] Richardus Raymaker: does it fix the Teleport problem ? [10:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Diva did a fix for me the other day that fixed a crash [10:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: now it works without crashing the sim [10:52 AM] Richardus Raymaker: because wright plaza is not reachable with teleport. good we have eleven. so i can fly to here [10:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but it seems Imprudence 1.3 crashes alot with it enabled [10:53 AM] Richardus Raymaker: brb [10:53 AM] Richardus Raymaker is Offline [10:53 AM] Script saved [10:53 AM] Master Dubrovna: Nebadon will you be releaseing a new version that has the http fix? [10:53 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:53 AM]  Richardus Raymaker is Online [10:53 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i might do that today [10:53 AM] Master Dubrovna: cool [10:53 AM] Master Dubrovna: Good deal [10:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i was kind of waiting to see if some more fixes were going in [10:54 AM]  Master Dubrovna: yea [10:54 AM] Master Dubrovna: I have been following on IRC [10:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it probably is worth making a release today though [10:54 AM] Master Dubrovna: yeah [10:54 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok, i hav eit enabled now [10:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi: seems a bit faster to me with it enabled [10:55 AM] Richardus Raymaker: does it work on older opensim versions to ? [10:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: not well [10:55 AM] Master Dubrovna: Yeah stuff seems to rezz faster [10:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there was a potential crash [10:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: here at Wright Plaza if you logged into it with it enabled previously [10:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: the sim crashed [10:55 AM] Richardus Raymaker: aha. wel must remeber to turn it of or upgrade when new version is available [10:56 AM] Richardus Raymaker: do you know whty wright is so bad accesable with teleports. i hear other regions with problems to. my conclusion. we have some teleport problem between different versions [10:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I just think Teleporting in general is flakey [10:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i teleported here a bit ago [10:56 AM] Richardus Raymaker: if the versions are different it canbreak yes [10:57 AM] Master Dubrovna: same here but it took a while [10:57 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i cant get in for a few days now [10:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats always possibility too [10:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i think its mostly just timing issues [10:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: things not happening in proper order or something, viewer is being confused [10:57 AM] Richardus Raymaker: christmas vacation. overladed internet .. [10:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there has been a lot of fiddeling with the login procedure lately [10:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: which probably is effecting teleporting as well [10:58 AM] Richardus Raymaker: and the clouds ? it looks like on lbsa it works pretty good now [10:58 AM] Script saved [10:58 AM] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, do you know what version bada / seaprior are running ? [10:58 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [10:58 AM] Nebadon Izumi: id have to check [10:59 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i need to try it again, but after visit there i where cloud and taked a bit more effort to get normal [10:59 AM] Nebadon Izumi: bade and seaprior are differnt servers [10:59 AM] Nebadon Izumi: seaprior is on our windows 2008 server [10:59 AM] Richardus Raymaker: or better when i came from there [10:59 AM] Richardus Raymaker: need to test it again. maby just a but luck. [11:00 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:00 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ive had troubled teleporting too [11:00 AM] Nebadon Izumi: even on my own sims [11:00 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and the plazas [11:00 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i really cant explain why its so random [11:00 AM] Nebadon Izumi: especially when you can relog directly to the sim you cant teleport too [11:00 AM] Richardus Raymaker: from wright works fine. [11:00 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i'll get a release out later today maybe that will help [11:01 AM] Richardus Raymaker: its just something i see the last days. [11:01 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:01 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ive seen it too [11:01 AM] Richardus Raymaker: good we have eleven. thanks to dave [11:01 AM] Nebadon Izumi: there is a lot of refactoring going on with the login stuff right now [11:01 AM] Nebadon Izumi: to fix the invisible/cloud avatar [11:01 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and i have no doubt its all part of the same issue [11:01 AM] Richardus Raymaker: yes. thats what i expected. changes in code [11:01 AM] paulie Flomar is Offline [11:02 AM] Sarah Kline: hi [11:02 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah [11:02 AM] Script saved [11:02 AM] paulie Flomar is Offline [11:02 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello Sarah [11:03 AM] Sarah Kline: Hi Neb [11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: linking prims can give funn results to, some prims get phantom. [11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm sorry not pohantom i mean invisible [11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya there is some very odd things with linking still [11:03 AM] Casias Falta: hi all [11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:03 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: best thing to do when that happens [11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: is check the phantom box [11:03 AM] Justin Clark-Casey is Online [11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: deselect the prims [11:03 AM] Richardus Raymaker: good i have daily oar's nothing lost [11:03 AM] Nebadon Izumi: then select again and unphantom it [11:03 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: that should fix the physics mesh for linkset thats partially phantom [11:04 AM] Richardus Raymaker: linden plants did got 180 degree turned to when the where linked. but still linking works much betetr [11:04 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:04 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:04 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: hey nebado, folk [11:04 AM] Jacek Antonelli: Hey JCC :) [11:04 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon [11:04 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: interesting i never noticed that Richardus [11:04 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: have to look at that [11:04 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey is jumping around trying to see if login lag is a bit better :) [11:04 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya its A LOT better [11:04 AM] Richardus Raymaker: linking is not so important nebadon. not for now [11:04 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello Paulie [11:05 AM] paulie Flomar: AOOO! MAde it! [11:05 AM] Nebadon Izumi: nice [11:05 AM] paulie Flomar: Howdeh! [11:05 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi paulie [11:05 AM] paulie Flomar: tough gettin here. [11:05 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: hi paulie [11:05 AM] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, JCC! [11:05 AM] Richardus Raymaker: this version seems intressting to try [11:05 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: is this region running the latest tweak that mic put in? [11:05 AM] Nebadon Izumi: really? might have just been the multiple logins Paulie [11:05 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:05 AM] paulie Flomar flops on teh couch next to nebbers. [11:05 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i just updated this sim about 45 minutes ago [11:06 AM] Richardus Raymaker: does this fiox also fix avatar freeze after you linked a big building ? [11:06 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hope you do lbsa to [11:06 AM]  paulie Flomar: LBSA seems to be takin it on the chin lately., yeah. [11:06 AM] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Richardus, i suspect that one might be the person linking only cant move? [11:06 AM] Quilzie Xemax: Seems I can't get here without leaving a ghost in my region. :P [11:06 AM] Nebadon Izumi: or everyone freezes? [11:06 AM] Sarah Kline: i log in to ajoining sim..wait 4mins for LBSA to rezz then walk over into it to get in [11:06 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: i could not move after linking / delinking/ busy instance or so [11:07 AM]  Sarah Kline: ^^ [11:07 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Lbsa is running bad? [11:07 AM] Richardus Raymaker: yes lbsa is loading everything first and then display it at once [11:07 AM] paulie Flomar: LBA is super bandy, avs dont show right, etc. [11:07 AM]  Sarah Kline: 3mins I exaggerate [11:07 AM] Richardus Raymaker: its a bit random. [11:07 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its been running for 2.5 days it looks like [11:07 AM] Nebadon Izumi: thats crazy [11:07 AM] paulie Flomar: TP from LBSA to Wright fails. [11:07 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ive never seen Lbsa Plaza run that long [11:07 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: probably leak tastic by now [11:08 AM] Nebadon Izumi: no its not [11:08 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how much memory is it using? [11:08 AM] AEH Solo is Offline [11:08 AM] Nebadon Izumi: show stats says 397 [11:08 AM] Richardus Raymaker: lbsa run fine for me. only after telport in it takes sometimes some time [11:08 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: 397mb? [11:08 AM] Sarah Kline: (sorry that was wright plaza I meant) [11:08 AM] Nebadon Izumi: 5 people there [11:08 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: that's surprisingly low [11:08 AM] paulie Flomar: I think maybe I broke LBSA with my constant rave dancing there. Wore it out. :) [11:08 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok Sarah [11:08 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya Wright Plaza can take a bit to rez [11:08 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:08 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: its 22000 prims almost now [11:08 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: avatar movement does feel more responsive here [11:08 AM]  Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:08 AM]  Sarah Kline: lol [11:08 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: 22212 [11:08 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: actually [11:09 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: if lbsa runs the same version as wright i think teleport problem between both is fixt. [11:10 AM]  Script saved [11:10 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ok i'll get them on same version in a bit [11:10 AM]  Casias Falta: question: whats the trade/off advant/dis of running regions on save instance of opensim.exe vrs on two instances on same win box [11:10 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: its amazing Lbsa has run for over 2 days though [11:10 AM]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:10 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont recall it ever running that long [11:10 AM] Nebadon Izumi: this might be a new record honestly [11:10 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah is completely invisible today :) [11:10 AM]  paulie Flomar: sweet [11:10 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: I see Sarah [11:10 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: and lbsa where noit really empty the last days nebadon [11:11 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its hardly ever empty [11:11 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:11 AM]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:11 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: strange, she's ok for me [11:11 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe just me then [11:11 AM]  paulie Flomar: no, sarah is just hair for me. [11:11 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: maby http ? [11:12 AM]  Sarah Kline: i re did appearance too [11:12 AM]  paulie Flomar dusables http tex fetching to see if sarah appears [11:12 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: detach your object above your hair sarah [11:12 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: maby that helps [11:12 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i have HTTP texture fetch enabled [11:12 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: using Imprudence 1.4 experimental [11:12 AM] Sarah Kline: thems my antlers [11:12 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: k, I don't [11:12 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: i have it enabled to [11:13 AM]  paulie Flomar: enabling / disabling http doesnt make her show up. [11:13 AM] paulie Flomar: for me [11:13 AM]  Dahlia Trimble is Offline [11:13 AM] Alby Damden is Online [11:13 AM] Nalates Urriah: I had a heck of a time tp'ing in here. I had to tp to Fermi and walk/fly in. [11:13 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, justin sit werid for me [11:13 AM]  Sarah Kline: I'm here anyway [11:13 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [11:13 AM]  paulie Flomar: Nalates, the same for me. [11:13 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: yep :) [11:13 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: he is sort of floating out in the middle [11:13 AM]  paulie Flomar: Nalates, I like yer blog, btw. [11:14 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: I gave up trying to Tp to here and just logged in to this region [11:14 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: seats have its own life sometimes [11:14 AM]  Script saved [11:14 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: for me, I'm sitting in mid air but off to one side [11:14 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: I sat on the floor on purpose [11:14 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ah [11:14 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya then your probably sitting proper then [11:14 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:14 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: hello, everyone [11:14 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Andrew [11:14 AM]  Sarah Kline: hi Andrew [11:14 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi andrew [11:14 AM]  paulie Flomar: Howdeh, Andrew! [11:14 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: hello abdrew. if you have next time problem. telkeport to eleven and fly to wright [11:14 AM] Nebadon Izumi: btw Happy holidays to everyone :) [11:15 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes :) [11:15 AM] paulie Flomar: thx, Nebbers! [11:15 AM] paulie Flomar: u2 [11:15 AM]  Sarah Kline: to you too [11:15 AM] Nalates Urriah: TY. Happy happy to all. [11:15 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I was thinking of trying something like that but the map wasn't showing any regions adjacent to here at first. [11:15 AM] Casias Falta: Any takers on my question re: separate running more then one instance of opensim.exe on same server box [11:15 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok, almost nobody seems to get here nebadon. [11:15 AM] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:16 AM]  paulie Flomar: Howdeh, Dahl! [11:16 AM] Richardus Raymaker: thats possible casias [11:16 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... looksl ike the mini map is working. The green dots are in the right place [11:16 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: well, two instances of the same box will have the memory overhead of two virtual machines [11:16 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [11:16 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: but would be slightly more fault tolerent if mono crashes [11:16 AM] Casias Falta: question was adv and disadv [11:16 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:16 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's probably the major tradeoff [11:16 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:16 AM] Casias Falta: this is on win [11:16 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i dont see it use more meory. but i dont want everything on 1 instance [11:16 AM] Dahlia Trimble: wierd.. I tried to TP here but the TP failed, but there was chat from the meeting in my chat history after it failed [11:17 AM] Nebadon Izumi: wierd, ya Teleports seem to be funky for sure [11:17 AM] Master Dubrovna: I run multiple opensims. If one region crashes, it does not take the others down. [11:17 AM] Dahlia Trimble: had to tp to neighboring sim and fly in [11:17 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: i mentioned it earlier on #opensim-dev [11:17 AM] paulie Flomar: Dahlia: I saw the same chat wierdness on my failed TP hee. [11:17 AM] Quilzie Xemax: Dahlia: I got the same problem, but after I dismissed the error I actually got in [11:17 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how long has it been the case? [11:17 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ive been having TP fails even on my own sims [11:17 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: whats the question about multiple opensim.exe on one machine? I don't see that as a problem. I've done it on my own box when testing grid mode. [11:17 AM] Richardus Raymaker: hi quilzi [11:17 AM] Nebadon Izumi: not very long Justin, week maybe [11:17 AM] Master Dubrovna: Casias was asking advantae/diadvantages [11:18 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ive noticed alot of people mentioning it on #osgrid IRC and at Lbsa Plaza too [11:18 AM] Richardus Raymaker: weird no viseo [11:18 AM] Richardus Raymaker: video [11:18 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I had that happen to me. TP failed and there were two things said by Nebadon in my chat history [11:18 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: k - just wondering what the cause might be. I was wondering if it might be avatar/appearance related [11:18 AM] Richardus Raymaker: ok, restarted now it works video back [11:18 AM] paulie Flomar drinks coffee to try and clear muh foggy haid... [11:18 AM] paulie Flomar: grrruuurr [11:18 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Casias, disadvantages are that high load on one OS instance can affect the other (ie. make it see lag) [11:19 AM] Script saved [11:19 AM] Richardus Raymaker: and restart is more problematic with everything on 1 instance [11:19 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya personally i find seperating sims into their own instances increases stability [11:19 AM] Nebadon Izumi: the memory usage is nominal [11:20 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. Regions with lots of stuff or scripts can use a lot of RAM. Can be better not to have too many "big" regions in one OS instance. [11:20 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i still use that setup you told me 2 years ago. and i dont want back. also you seperate databases [11:20 AM] Casias Falta: ok and advant is if one goes down the other stays up - makes sense [11:20 AM] Nebadon Izumi: the biggest thing is physics and scripts [11:20 AM] Dahlia Trimble: multiple core machines seem to work well for me [11:20 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: at least 2 cores [11:20 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Casias: yup [11:20 AM] Master Dubrovna: right [11:20 AM] Dahlia Trimble: one core ... meh [11:21 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:21 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: You can use one core but it isn't ideal if running regions with lots of scripts. [11:21 AM] Nebadon Izumi: one core is so 90's [11:21 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: its something like 2 opensim instance / for every core. inmy setup now [11:21 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:21 AM] Master Dubrovna: How many you running now Rich? [11:21 AM] Dahlia Trimble: but all my current regions on OSGrid are all running on a single VPS. 5 regions [11:22 AM] Casias Falta:. . . ah getting to the core of the problem [11:22 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Roast justing appears to be on the menu today [11:22 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Roast Justin [11:22 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:22 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: so cold, so cold [11:22 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: any noticeable change with physics? [11:23 AM] Richardus Raymaker: memory is still the big problem. and i think under windows you need to run fatser seperate instances then with linux. if we still have the 2GB windows limit [11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: things seem very stabe id say Justin [11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: the windows boxes have not crashed again with physics issues [11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: I think the ODE upgrade should be considered a success personally [11:23 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: ok good. still need to ask melanie if she can compile the mac library [11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya [11:23 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: that would be good [11:23 AM] Nebadon Izumi: im sure she can [11:24 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: not sure if all mac systems are 64 bit nowadays - I suspect so [11:24 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya im not sure either honestly [11:24 AM] Dahlia Trimble: does anyone remember OSGrid asset server history? I remember a while back all assets were in MySql, and at one point it was moved from one table type to another. What table types were they? [11:24 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i know just about nothing about mac [11:24 AM] Richardus Raymaker: the cpu's are. the OS im not sure [11:24 AM] Nebadon Izumi: we moved from innodb to myisam Dahlia [11:24 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i run on mariadb [11:25 AM] Dahlia Trimble: happen to remember the issues with either table types? [11:25 AM] Master Dubrovna: oh? Hows Mariadb working for your? [11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: well the issue with innodb was that after around 50-60gb the table started corrupting a lot [11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: we had to rebuilt the tables several times [11:25 AM] Richardus Raymaker: it seems to work fine. else look self on simsquare regions. [11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it was time consuming [11:25 AM] Dahlia Trimble: and it worked better with myisam? [11:25 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: because myisam has seperate files [11:26 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I seem to remember there was supposed to be some reason for moving from myisam to innodb [11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: with innodb all your databases are in 1 big file [11:26 AM] Dahlia Trimble: was there also some issue with backups with myisam? [11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: the problem with myisam is locking [11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it can lock entries [11:26 AM] Nebadon Izumi: so if we run a big query it can kill Robust [11:27 AM] Nebadon Izumi: which kind of sucks [11:27 AM] Richardus Raymaker: not so Rubust [11:27 AM] Dahlia Trimble: ty :) [11:27 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: well its not Robusts fault though [11:27 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: its the database design differences [11:27 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: yes [11:27 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: between innodb and myisam [11:28 AM]  Script saved [11:28 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: still running SRAS now? [11:28 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:28 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was trying to set up an SRAS thing but coyleds stuff is only for Rail 2 and won't work with Rails 3 [11:29 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: we wont forever though, dave was talking about moving over to simiangrid for Assets [11:29 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: someone told me yesterday that the last 2 version of opensim where crashing on her system. [11:29 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: but it requires moving simiangrid forward a bit [11:29 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: can mix simian wiht robust? [11:29 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:29 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: we already are [11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: our website is simiangrid [11:29 AM] Dahlia Trimble: hmmm [11:29 AM] paulie Flomar: RR: i recall seeing that comment on LBSA. Dont remember who uttereed it tho. [11:29 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: oh? I thought simiangrid was all or nothing [11:29 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: or is that just for some combinations of services? [11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: right now it is for that [11:29 AM] Nebadon Izumi: but dave wants to fix that [11:29 AM] Richardus Raymaker: Lisa paulie [11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: right now its not ready [11:30 AM] paulie Flomar: RR: thx. [11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hes been real busy though lately [11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: just hasnt had the time [11:30 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I havent tried SimianGrid for a while. I should make a new test grid from it [11:30 AM] Dahlia Trimble: robust too [11:30 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya i havent had time for much testing with it either [11:31 AM] Dahlia Trimble: ya no time at all lately for me [11:31 AM]  paulie Flomar: leaving RObust for Simian? [11:31 AM] Script saved [11:31 AM] Nebadon Izumi: not sure paulie, probably not 100% [11:31 AM] Nebadon Izumi: he was talking just for assets I think [11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: he wanted to do something with couchDB [11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and simiangrid back end [11:32 AM] Nebadon Izumi: right now it has no couchdb support yet though [11:32 AM] Richardus Raymaker: omg who wears a complete building ? [11:33 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: anybody know more about linden lab viewer 2.4? [11:33 AM] Nebadon Izumi: what about it Justin? [11:33 AM] Nebadon Izumi: their dev viewer is 2.5 now [11:33 AM] Richardus Raymaker: nope. i just wait until i cant test imprudence 2.0 viewer [11:33 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I like 2.4 [11:33 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: I say Austin's post that it actually has a facility for choosing different grids [11:33 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I hope there is something that can be done soon to get blobs out of the asset table or a something else so I won't have to worry that the database system is going to blow up when the table gets to be over 50G [11:33 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ive mostly been using 2.5 [11:33 AM] Dahlia Trimble: 2.5 has bad memory leaks last I used it [11:34 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: its a little crashy [11:34 AM] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:34 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: does it allow you to specify a grid list? [11:34 AM] Dahlia Trimble: not that Ive seen [11:34 AM] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:34 AM]  Sarah Kline: not seen [11:34 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its the old fashion way [11:34 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I use a proxy anyeay [11:34 AM] Nalates Urriah: Second Life Viewer Updates @ http://nalates.wordpress.com/2010/12/21/second-life-viewer-updates/ [11:34 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: k [11:35 AM]  Nalates Urriah: No grid list in 2.5 [11:35 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks nalates [11:35 AM] Casias Falta: html on a prim sure is nice [11:35 AM] Richardus Raymaker: im afraid it still have the 2.0 gui [11:35 AM] Casias Falta: using sl 2.x [11:35 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: mesh is nice :) [11:35 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder what Austin was talking about then [11:35 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'd be likely to use mesh more than html on a prim [11:36 AM]  Script saved [11:36 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya both are pretty cool [11:36 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: but need work [11:36 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:36 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: the latest 2.5 developer version from 12/17 is pretty good [11:36 AM]  Casias Falta: conferencing seems to want html on prim - share docs etc [11:36 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: conferencing? how boring [11:36 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ive been attending the weekly mesh meetings in SL every week [11:36 AM]  Nalates Urriah: I have plans for mesh. The LL Mesh Project viewer works pretty well here. the command line length limit in shortcuts is a pain. [11:37 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: Id rather have big green monsters [11:37 AM] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: educations wants moap as well [11:37 AM] Nalates Urriah: The 2.4 and 2.5 viewers have pretty bad memory leaks. [11:37 AM] Richardus Raymaker: im a bit intressted in MOAP / html [11:37 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: mesh is also good for people who want to reuse content over multiple different ve platforms, not be tied into one [11:38 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya it ups the quality factor too [11:38 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you can only do so much with stock prims [11:38 AM] Nalates Urriah: Mesh is dependent on the Collada format and Blender support for Collada is a bit buggy. [11:38 AM] Richardus Raymaker: depends how easy you can work with meshes [11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: the collada support in Blender 2.5 seems a lot better [11:39 AM] Richardus Raymaker: sculpts are already tricky [11:39 AM] Richardus Raymaker: blender. HELP:) [11:39 AM] Dahlia Trimble: really? I cant make collada in 2.5 work [11:39 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm waiting for the day when someone does a mesh editor that's as easy to use as the prim editor :) [11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya i had much better luck with 2.5 [11:39 AM] Richardus Raymaker: oh yes, nice justin [11:39 AM] Nalates Urriah: I haven't tried the 2.55 beta but I see they have done some work on Collada export. [11:39 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you have the latest beta installed Dahlia? [11:39 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, Sculpties in Blender are a bit easier now with the work that has been done on Primstart [11:39 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Primstar [11:40 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nalate: collada export? from the viewer? [11:40 AM] Dahlia Trimble: maybe I need to update my 2.5. its about a month old [11:40 AM] Nalates Urriah: no blender [11:40 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i still need to play with blender again. first thing get fonts right. but time.. [11:40 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: ah ok, though that was a bit unlikely for an official linden viewer :) [11:40 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: ya blender takes a *lot* of time [11:40 AM]  Script saved [11:41 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: if you want to just make 3D fonts [11:41 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: i suggest wings3D [11:41 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: its really cool for fonts [11:41 AM]  Casias Falta: blender is deap and wide [11:41 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks still hasn't spent the time to figure out Blender since before the 1.8 manual came out [11:41 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: wings has collada export support also [11:41 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: fonts are bad in wings [11:41 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: make that the 1.5 manual (which is a work of art) [11:42 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: last time I tried to use blender I got car sick [11:42 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: its worked great for me Richardus [11:42 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: blender i have same problem [11:42 AM] Dahlia Trimble: I know Max better but I'm pretty comfortable with much of blender now [11:42 AM] Richardus Raymaker: not so good eyes nebadon [11:42 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think if you know Max Dahlia [11:42 AM] Nebadon Izumi: picking up Blender 2.5 isnt so hard [11:42 AM] Nebadon Izumi: 2.4 was a lot harder if you ask me [11:42 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: or just know one high end 3D package [11:42 AM] Richardus Raymaker: same for me with osgrid page, that lightgrey on white is harder to read [11:42 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya Maya seems alot differnt though [11:43 AM] Nebadon Izumi: then everything else ive seen [11:43 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still more comfortable with Rhinoceros 3D but it doesn't handle Collada [11:43 AM] Richardus Raymaker: but maby thats linux problem [11:43 AM] Dahlia Trimble: ya I dont know maya [11:43 AM] Nebadon Izumi: Maya looked like old school Autocad [11:44 AM] Nalates Urriah: Sketchup does Collada export too. It has some problems. They have work-arounds in Sl Forum. [11:44 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive not had much luck with Sketchup collada stuff getting it into OpenSim or SL [11:45 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: i also have not had much luck even loading Sketchup Collada into Blender either [11:45 AM] Nebadon Izumi: things get all exploded and wierd [11:45 AM] Dahlia Trimble: Im not really impressed with most of the content Ive seen in sketchup [11:45 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:45 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: its very cartoony [11:45 AM] Dahlia Trimble: its very basic [11:45 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:45 AM]  Nalates Urriah: Yeah, I started reading the work-arounds. I think that was the opne where they were editing the export file to get it to work. TOO much brain damage. [11:46 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: have there been any updates to the mesh support? I presume all this stuff is still in the beta viewer and not the main builds? [11:46 AM] Script saved [11:46 AM] Dahlia Trimble: the import UI changed a lot [11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: they have a Daily mesh build justin [11:46 AM] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec i'll get you page [11:46 AM] Nalates Urriah: Still in beta. They have a sort of nightly viewer build. It just isn't the link they give out. [11:47 AM] Dahlia Trimble: make sure you have a lot of memory available :) [11:47 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/latest.html [11:47 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya maybe it runs well for me since im on on Win7 x64 with 8gb ram [11:47 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks nebadon, handy to know [11:47 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ive never looked a the memory consumption [11:47 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: 8? im jealous [11:47 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: I need 16, I have 4 [11:47 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: heh i have 2 machines with 8 [11:48 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: and its still not enough [11:48 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:48 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: When I upgrade machines soon I think I'll finally switch to a 64 bit os :) [11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i want 2 machines with 24 each now [11:48 AM] Dahlia Trimble: ya I have way too much CPU for 4 gb ram [11:48 AM] Dahlia Trimble: CPU is wasted [11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: my friend ordered a new Toshiba Qosimo laptop [11:48 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: 8? nice. I have 4 but only 3.5 or so is available. [11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: it has a i7 Mobile Quad [11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: omg [11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its absurd [11:48 AM] Nebadon Izumi: 8 virtual cores [11:48 AM] Richardus Raymaker: whoo, thats the better monile work [11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: the i7s are absurd [11:49 AM] Richardus Raymaker: and a free toaster [11:49 AM] Dahlia Trimble: mines i5 but one of those i5s that has 4 graphs in task manager [11:49 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if I could write that off as a business expense [11:49 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:49 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: the difference between teh Core2 and the i processors [11:49 AM] Sarah Kline: ) [11:49 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: is the i processors have HT [11:50 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: ya the i ones are amazing [11:50 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: I thought Intel was touting HT in processors some time ago. [11:50 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ya they did in the P4's Andrew [11:50 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: but the Core and Core2 cpus dropped HT [11:50 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: maybe they made it better or something [11:50 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: Yeah. That was it [11:51 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: one can hope they did, Dahlia [11:51 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: Or it was to keep die size down [11:51 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: my last laptop was core2 but it died, so I got the i5 one about a year ago. Amazing difference [11:51 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: well im sure there is only so many circuit paths they can put on a cpu die [11:51 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: ehhe so they cheat a little with things like Virtual cores [11:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:52 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: the i cpus are also smaller [11:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: 45nm vs 65nm [11:52 AM] Nebadon Izumi: they even have 32nm I processors now i think [11:53 AM] Nebadon Izumi: i was reading something the other day that intel was saying they think they can do up to something like 1000 cores [11:53 AM] Nebadon Izumi: that would be crazy [11:53 AM] Dahlia Trimble: heh when I worked in that field 25 micron was hot stuff... times change [11:54 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: 1,000? Holy... Good for server farms or super computers [11:54 AM] Richardus Raymaker: how many cores do you think a graphics gard have ? ok its more basic [11:54 AM] Nebadon Izumi whispers: http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/07/01/intel.thousand.core.chips/ [11:54 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: just before we get up to the hour, are there any more opensim topics to discuss? [11:55 AM] Dahlia Trimble: GPUs? simple ones have around 32 I think [11:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: well the newest 480 level Nvidia cards are around 400-500 cores [11:55 AM] Richardus Raymaker: problems is 1000 cores need 1000GB memory :O lol [11:55 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, 16 to 32 GPU's or so [11:55 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: not really Richardus [11:55 AM] Casias Falta: question: had 14 ava's on our sim and crashed [11:55 AM] Casias Falta: someone said it was trying to send 1000 group ims [11:55 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, that many core in a GPU?? [11:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya thats possible Casias [11:55 AM] Casias Falta: is that urban myth or possible trugh [11:55 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you might want to disable Group IMs [11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: in the groups section of OpenSim.ini [11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: you can disbale group IMs but leave groups itself enabled [11:56 AM] Casias Falta: t, [11:56 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: what's wrong with gropu IMs? [11:56 AM] Casias Falta: tk [11:56 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: but yes, large group IMs can be nasty [11:56 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: What exactly crashed trying to send 1000 IMs? [11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: its the big groups justin [11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: with 100's of people [11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: if you get really chatty, man its soooo harsh on the console [11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: and when 99% of the group is offline [11:56 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: a lot of that logging should probably be disabled [11:56 AM] Nebadon Izumi: that cant help either [11:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably justin [11:57 AM] Nebadon Izumi: that would likely help a bit [11:57 AM] Dahlia Trimble: prolly should come up with a better group IM distribution mechanism someday [11:57 AM] Dahlia Trimble: tough problem [11:57 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: +1 Be more like usenet :) [11:57 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: usenet? lol [11:57 AM]  Andrew Hellershanks: SHould probably do more of the group stuff in a module and not need the PHP/XML stuff on a webserver [11:58 AM]  Script saved [11:58 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: that would mean putting a groups serivce in core [11:58 AM]  Dahlia Trimble: I tried some stuff with XMPP a while back but it was all implemented in a proxy [11:58 AM]  Richardus Raymaker: Group Im would be nice if its seperate process or program where opensim send the message to, something like that [11:58 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: didnt Reactiongrid just release some Groups Module? [11:58 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: or did i dream that [11:58 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:58 AM]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think anybody would actually have a problem with that, it's just a lot of work and tends to restrict maintenance access [11:58 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: they said in January [11:59 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: if there's a service in core I think that also tends to discourage third party development [11:59 AM] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [11:59 AM]  Nebadon Izumi: i remember reading something about a new groups module they did [11:59 AM] Andrew Hellershanks: Set it up as an add-on module? [11:59 AM] Dahlia Trimble: http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/jabberimproxy/ [11:59 AM] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: it would have to be another robust service [11:59 AM] Richardus Raymaker: i think groups send need to get out of theopensim core. [12:00 PM] Richardus Raymaker: its easy to say, but how harder you think how more difficult it gets [12:00 PM] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go. Have a good Christmas, everyone! [12:01 PM] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see how groups can be handled fully if its external to OS. You need some links i the code to know when a person is logging in [12:01 PM] Nalates Urriah: bye Happy X-mas [12:01 PM] Richardus Raymaker: goodbye justin. merry christmas [12:01 PM] Dahlia Trimble: ty, jcc, you too :) [12:01 PM]  Andrew Hellershanks: cya, justin [12:01 PM]  Casias Falta: cu justin happy solstice [12:01 PM]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hope you get warm again soon [12:01 PM]  Sarah Kline: byes [12:01 PM]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh, I am pretty warm. but I am pissed off waiting for a parcel that never came today, despite city-link's tracking site [12:01 PM]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh well [12:01 PM]  Dahlia Trimble: yep I should go too, finish christmas shopping. Happy holidays all :) [12:01 PM] Justin Clark-Casey waves [12:01 PM] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Dahlia, thanks for coming [12:02 PM] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Justin [12:02 PM] Casias Falta: bye to all and thanks for keeping this going [12:02 PM] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline