Chat log from the meeting on 2015-02-24

 [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:40]  Region found! [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:40]  Region found! [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:40]  Region found! [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:40]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Staff%20Zone%201/133/73/85 [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:40]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:47]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/test%20two/127/126/23 [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:47]  Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:47]  Justin.Clark-Casey @82.3.139.36:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:47]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:47]  Connected [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:47]  tommy: Script running [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:49]  Region found! [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:49]  Region found! [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:49]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Staff%20Zone%201/133/73/85 [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:49]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:51]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/test%20two/128/127/23 [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:51]  Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:51]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:51]  Justin.Clark-Casey @82.3.139.36:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:51]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:51]  Connected [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:52]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Staff%20Zone%201/134/72/85 [10:59] [2015/02/20 13:52]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:08]  Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:08]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:08]  Justin.Clark-Casey @82.3.139.36:8002 is Online [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:08]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:08]  Connected [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:08]  Justin.Clark-Casey @82.3.139.36:8002 is Offline [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:09]  Justin Clark-Casey gave you NPC Mate test box V2.2. [10:59] [2015/02/20 16:16]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:59] Mal.Burns @grid.avacon.org:8002 is Online [10:59] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [10:59] Connected [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: its on the University Network [10:59] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: well no doubt but we got to get him to document his configs ;) [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: University of California Irvine [11:00]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves [11:00]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi aine. all [11:00]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hiya Aine :) [11:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi jcc [11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: hello [11:00] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Justin and Aine [11:00] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Justin [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: so I have some good news [11:01] Jak Daniels: Hi all [11:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hello [11:01] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: yay! [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is back up [11:01]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi Jak and Alicia [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: logins are not completely open yet [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: but I was thinking we could Hypergrid to Wright Plaza today [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you guys want [11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: If a server running in a grid refuse to let you login or TP to that region (happens sometimea) but stats look fine. except consople shows slow handlin g. its simside or grid side ?. restart btw fix the problem. it happend a few times now [11:01] Jak Daniels: cool [11:01] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: testing has been great [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: I experience no loss of inventory [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: my IAR saved without hassle [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: 3.5gb [11:02] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: wonderful! [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: all the plazas are back up as well as my own and couple other testers regions [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: surprisingly Dahlia had a region running the entire outage [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: and she logged right back into it without a restart [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: running for 190 days [11:02] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: wow [11:03] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: using her own asset and inventory databases? [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: the grid is fully back up now [11:03] Jak Daniels: was the asset cache set to never expire? [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: her region just sat idle and was never restarted [11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wich asset storage ? [11:03] Jak Daniels: region [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: fsassets [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: Melanies asset server [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: she is still cleaning up the code a bit [11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: still think its better way. [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: it will be in core soon [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think fassets give less corruption, [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i hope its in 0.8.1 [11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Still like to know if theres a way to speedup xengine or make the sensors more reliable [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: should we jump over? [11:05] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: so we could have had the meeting at wright plaza? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: I will leave my local avatar here [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: I have my OSgrid avatar waiting at Wright Plaza [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone else shows up I can redirect them [11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: in OS at soem point something get wrong, but not sure when. i can say maby more when my own 0.8.1 grid is running [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://hg.osgrid.org:80 Wright Plaza [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: in your map search [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Online [11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hg.osgrid.org:80"Wright Plaza [11:06]  No regions found with that name. [11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hg.osgrid.org:80:Wright Plaza [11:06]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002 is Online [11:06]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...see you there [11:06]  Teleport completed from https://opensimcc/region/Staff%20Zone%201/141/63/85 [11:07]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:07]  Hiro Protagonist: hiya Shez [11:07]  Connected [11:07]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Mornin' Hiro :) [11:07]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:07]  Connected [11:07]  Hiro Protagonist: Heya Rich, Justin [11:07]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: just got hit with a ton of "unable to fetch profile data at this time" messages....is that expected? [11:07]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Slow pokes! [11:07]  Hiro Protagonist: Arielle, how goes :) [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hello [11:07] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Rotten eggs! [11:07] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hey Hiro [11:07] Hiro Protagonist: yah y'all need ta get some real intertubes [11:07] Hiro Protagonist: :p [11:07] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: same profile warning popups here also [11:08] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: :) [11:08]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hair and attachments here too? [11:08]  Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone :) [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we are running old profiles here [11:08] Hiro Protagonist: Hiya Kayaker [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: so not totally surprising [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: however i never got those same messages [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: so kind of wierd [11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ah, it's 1 for each person [11:08] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: I couldn't log in with my OSG Ahez [11:08] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Shez* [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Logins are not up [11:08]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: right [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: only admins at the moment [11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: when Billy arrived I got another one [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: goons only for teh moment [11:09] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Arielle.. your parts are intact [11:09] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: got what? [11:09] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: are mine? [11:09] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yay [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and again just now with Bluewall arriving [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: HG is more easy [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ok well we are still dusting off stuff here [11:09] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: looks fine to me Shez [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: but so far things have been good [11:09] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: :) [11:09]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: only need some waxing and polish [11:09]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: an "Unable to fetch profile data at this time" message [11:09]  Hiro Protagonist: its fairly dusty, but we're still findin stuff under it [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: my guess that has something to do with v1 vs v2 profiles [11:09]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: blue is white [11:09]  Hiro Protagonist: yah [11:09]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: loads of unknown users showing for me [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm did Justin make it I wonder? [11:10]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: i saw him [11:10]  Hiro Protagonist: yeah he's ovar [11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I am here [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: oh haha [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: not in your usual spot [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: too funny [11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: good work guys [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya it was very painful amount of work, but totally worth it [11:10]  Hiro Protagonist: You need to tell that to Melanie and Allen Kerensky [11:10] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: same old paint job [11:10] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: I see all the names ok.. no unknowns [11:10] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hey, I recognise the stuff on the table! [11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++5 [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: there was a point when we thought maybe we wasted a lot of money and time [11:11] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ping is high [11:11] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok settling [11:11] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: those donuts are prob pretty stale [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but thankfully the restoration service came through a few days after we thought it was a completley lost cause [11:11] Hiro Protagonist: lol SHez! [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: murphys law [11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dont eat them shez [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: so as you decide things are dead and move on thats when murphy strikes [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I ueed to work with a guy named Murphy [11:12] Hiro Protagonist: well hey, we got that basterd goin' our way for a change [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: wanted to shoot him about every other day [11:12] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I still do! [11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: any problems in 0.8.1rc1 ? [11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: maby missed soemthing [11:13] Hiro Protagonist: I've not had any, works great [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: we are running Master git here now [11:13] Hiro Protagonist: just like buttah [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i upgraded Robust last night [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: the plazas are a few days back [11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: other than HG transfer being completely borked? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: my local regions here are on master too [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya something is very off with HG [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: attachments go missing [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: everyone showed up with full attachments here [11:14] Hiro Protagonist: I've not been able to jump at all, but blame my self [11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it looks fine for me. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: again must be the Awesome admin!!! [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: jk [11:14]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Andrew :) [11:14]  Hiro Protagonist: lol [11:14]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Cool. This is like a sense of deja vu (sort of) [11:14]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 grins [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: honestly I don't know why OSgrid and OSCC have less troubles than other grids [11:14]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: can we see the awesome configs? [11:14]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hey, everyone [11:14]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I installed Make Human the other day. I think I want to amke me a mesh avatar to test with. [11:14]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Andrew [11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: Arielle we could show the configs i have no problem with that [11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: however its very far from a stock configuration [11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes make human looks good. but the mess stuff is still a puzzle [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: we run 2 grid services for regions [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: 1 login service [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: 3 presence services [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: 5 inventory services [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: and 1 maptile service [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its very split up [11:15]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia [11:16] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [11:16]  Hiro Protagonist: I think that is the salient difference between this and many other installations, is that we run a relatively large number of service instances [11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Interesting. Justin is sitting on the right hand end of the couch for a change [11:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: hahah [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew you noticed too [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats hilarious [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i said same thing [11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: JUstin ? whats the timeout for login or telkeport ist by accident around 10000ms ? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: rich: I don't know what you're talking about [11:16] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Dahlia :) [11:17]  Hiro Protagonist: whoops! [11:17]  Hiro Protagonist: coffee time, brb [11:17]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Neb, rez a cube, put a *new* script in it, then rez another cube (box #2) and put another *new* script in it and or stuff into it, then put box #2 inside box #1 then try to send it to anyone in any other grid or have anyone from another grid buy or make a copy of it....box #2 will have no contents and will fail to rez unless ALL the assets inside it pre-existed on the destination grid [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ok i will test that out [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: never noticed that before [11:17]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = anything that is for sale, boxed will not transfer [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: so basically stuff that is deeply nested? [11:18]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: is it some configuration issue? [11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: anything that is 1 nest [11:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7439 [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: somethnig with perms [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: let me try that now and send it over to my OSCC avatar [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: it's li,kely a gathering bug. I will fix it [11:18] Primitive: Script running [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: try to figure out why my sim sometimes not respond on TP or login anymore. last time i looked clsoer and seen slow warnings around 10000ms and message like. [11:18] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Slow JSON-RPC request 1839 POST to took 10172ms, 0ms writing, {"agent_id":"ec3f598a-87e4-4df7-8570-ee3e1e0be10a","caps_path":"73a7a7af-0c66-4ce5-9a09-4cd673449b84","children_seeds":[{"handle":"8531110721900544","seed":"8b521267-961e-4fc6-8528-c2f3728657a6"},{"ha 2015-02-24 00:24:31,866 DEBUG - OpenSim.Region.CoreModules.Framework.EntityTransfer.EntityTransferModule [ENTITY TRANSFER MODULE]: Teleport of Richardus Raymaker from Astro to Trains was refused because [11:18]  Primitive: Script running [11:18]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: [ENTITY TRANSFER STATE MACHINE]: Agent ec3f598a-87e4-4df7-8570-ee3e1e0be10a cleared from transit in Astro [11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: If you use a default script the assets likely already exist on each end [11:19]  03: Script running [11:19]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I fixed the llGiveInventory to work across the grid this weekend. [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Can we put that in the RC? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: rich: are you using rc1? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: blue: yes [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've tested it since then, Bluewall [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: nested still = brorked [11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes rc1 justoin on both regions [11:19] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.1.0 Dev        1f04e1b: 2015-01-17 00:08:16 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I attached a mantis to the inventory one, but I think it's probably a different issue. [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: richrardus: use mster. there are issues in rc1 that have been addressed in master [11:20] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: can my llLookAt stuff go into the rc also? [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: grid side i dont know. thats not mine right now [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlida: yes [11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Justin's .NET fix last week now allows the 1st level stuff to send from my region but not the nested stuff [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya interesting [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :) [11:20]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ok. justin. know enough [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i get Unable to Rez, could not find asset [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: on the 3rd level of nesting [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: that is not good [11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's a bug, I will fix it [11:20]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: even on 2nd level nesting you'll get it [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ok thanks [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: second level worked ok for me [11:21]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not as single item I have out in my region for "sale" will transfer to other grids currently [11:21]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 whispers: because I " [11:21]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I"sell" a copy of the box [11:22]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so the contents are nested [11:22]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I thought about an osGiveInventory that would send items to other grids. [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya ok [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: well hopefully justin can patch that up nicely [11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not 100% sure about what is involved, but I think it could work [11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 crosses fingers [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: nice BlueWall that would be cool [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Kitely is delivering content to HG destinations from their store are they not? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: how are they doing it? [11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: are the ossl permissions already polished a bit ? or still need sometimes high levels ? [11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I thin kwith a module [11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: this would just be a prim vendor :) [11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: k so only the sender needs the module then? [11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: sounds good [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: would be nice to make Hypergrid run a bit better [11:24]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one thisn with OSSL perms that would be really nice is to be able to put in ini : Allow_ESTATE_OWNER = all [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: it does seem a bit flakey at times [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: the attachment thing [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: i saw it today myself coming here from OSCC [11:24]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it needs to be smooth as jumping within a grid. [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: I ended up putting my entire appearance in the suitcase [11:24]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think its important to put more energy in HG to [11:24]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'd think giving across grids would be difficult to make reliable [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: and that seems to help [11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or Allow_PARCEL_MANAGER = High [11:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: We have a lot of work to make that happen, but tat is what we should think about and shoot for. [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: Justin I have another issue that we talked about before [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you could globally set a level for one of the "flags" it recognizes [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: with NPC [11:25] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: its been smoother in past] [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and their inability to run scripts unless basically everyone can run scripts [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: we really need a rule for OSSL [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: for NPC to run OSSL [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: like you can specify ESTATE_MANAGER and PARCEL_OWNER [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: we need NPC [11:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: can the prim be owned by an allowed group? [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: are you sure, Neb? [11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: not if the NPC is wearing it [11:26]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the rezzer [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I thought NPC script perms were inherited from the script that rezzed it [11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: if the NPC is wearing the item you cant join NPC to a group [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ah [11:27]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohhh, ok. I'm thinking about jusdt getting it in-world. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: that works fine [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I understand [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah, anything that requires it to respond seems to bork [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which isn't surprising [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its very unsafe because the only way to make it work [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: is let everyone run those same functions [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how about an os function that passes off the npc key along with 0x encoded perms [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: when you rez the npc, run that function to enable the list for the key [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: hmm maybe, but just having a rule for OSSL that says let all NPCs run it would be better [11:29] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the rezzer would do that [11:29] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: like osAllowGetSimulatorVersion = NPC [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: etc.. [11:29] Hiro Protagonist: both features would be good to have in my opinion [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeha like llTakeControl [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: right now the only option is osAllowGetSimulatorVersion = true [11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: s [11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: anyway something thats been needed for a long time for sure [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would also be nice to get the scriptable advanced mats in [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i dont know why LL didnt allow that in SL [11:31]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: LSL has had it for ~18+ months now [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it is [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: really? [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's there and coded [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: I didnt think you could [11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: works perfectly [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: what script functions? [11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: llSelLinkPrimitivePAramsFast [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ok so nothing new [11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Dahlia added the constants about a year ago [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: just added on to existing ones [11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but Opensim doesn't use them [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so it can't retrieve or update them [11:32] Hiro Protagonist: do we have llSetRegionPos? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i think so [11:33]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes, llSetRegionPos works great [11:33] Hiro Protagonist: awesome thanks Kayaker [11:34] Hiro Protagonist: tell me, is there a corresponding llSetRegionRot? [11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: dont think so, [11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: cannot find it in lsl code to [11:35]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Well, llSetRot sets your region rotation if in the root prim. [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: for now i only wish i could speedup lsl or some events like moving_end [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have a question about the various LSL functions that have built-in sleeps (like llSetTexture)....are those hard-coded thead sleeps that are there just to discourage people from using it repeatedly and, if so, can they be removed? [11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: ubnless soemthing else weird happen [11:37] Hiro Protagonist: Kayaker, have you done anything with surfing/waves under bullet? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I think removing that would probably not go well [11:37] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: No, I do surfing/waves without physics. So it works everywhere. [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: set [Xengine] ScriptDelayFactor to something other than 1.0 [11:38] Hiro Protagonist: interesting. Do you have any surfing on osgrid? [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: would it accept 0.0? [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm. what measn the 1.0 ? [11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh...interesting [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and why its 1.0 ? [11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but then llSleep would cease to function, right? [11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: maby its set higher in OS then SL ? [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: no [11:39]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I had some waves running, but my region went down for other reasons just before OSgrid went down, I have some work to do to clean it up. [11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh....interesting [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: 1 == 1 [11:39] Hiro Protagonist: Rich [11:39] Hiro Protagonist: SL<>OS [11:39] Hiro Protagonist: they dont use our configs [11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so that would then eliminate the issue with people using a ton of thread-locking functions in the scripts [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: aine: ? [11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hhmm...iirc,that script delay value is used in the scripting engine. Changing it to 1.0 will affect the timing of some delays in LSL functions. [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, there are a ton of scripts out there that make calls to things like llSetTexture on rapid timers and those all have this 0.2 or higher built-in sleep [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: 1.0 is normal [11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if those are locking up threads.... [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: sofar i know that delay is cocded seperate for the command [11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Aine, scripts like that will usually result in high script runtimes. [11:41] Hiro Protagonist: aine: some questions are best answered with a test region and a weird config setting ;) [11:41]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, I know [11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: aine: 200 ms is not a long delay. Youa re more likely to see problems by letting people make more calls in the same amount of time [11:42]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: speeding up changing some things might not work very well [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: that is what i was thinking [11:42]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I found a pair of sandals yesterday in my inventory that were using 8.023 frame time EACH [11:42]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: those delays were designed in for a reason [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: probably have the exact opposite effect you are looking for [11:42]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: justin, unless you move objects 200ms is terrible. lukcy theres parametersfast [11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: AIne, stupid resizer script ? [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so wearing the pair of them was using 18k+ fraome time [11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Aine, check if they are trying to make a prim invisibe. I've seen that before in shoes. The script wasn't needed. [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: richradus: 200 ms is for llSetTexture. Each lslcomand has a different delay that is documented in lsl command pages [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: now, 12 copies of that damn invisibility prim script ffrom 2003 [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: per shoe [11:43] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ive seen blinking lights in a Xmas SIM that used llSleep for timing the blinks. Brought the server to its knees with 500 blinking lights. [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so 24 scripts doing that every 0.5 sec [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh, aine ? whaa thats bad building [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and then invoking a 30 sec llSleep [11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: oh, yeah. that's the script. I went on a search and destroy mission to rid a grid I work on of those invisiprim script [11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: So remove all the safeguards and let the fun begin [11:44] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hehe [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...I did too....discovered yesterday that I'd missed some [11:44] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: OH! I never thoght of that solution! ASK EVERYONE TO WRITE GOOD SCRIPTS AND GOOD BUILDS! [11:44] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will be fussing about the sim crashing then, [11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: What a concept! :D [11:44] Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: lol [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: trouble is there's a ton of that stuff out there [11:44] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: patent it ! :P [11:44] Hiro Protagonist: :D [11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hehe... don't allow people to write scripts in a grid until they have gone through a course on writing good scripts.:) [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but....I was more wondering about where those existing functions with short(ish) delays in them that everyone seems to use a lot could be made not to lock threads [11:45]  Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Jason, you were looking into co-routines? [11:45]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: often high end video games dont let the camera get to close to anything so you can't see the lack of detail. Too bad SL never had that "feature* [11:45]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what side effect have ScriptDelayFactor ? [11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: if you need more threads then increase script engine threads [11:46]  Hiro Protagonist: thread locks aren't some mysterious pixie dust sprinkled into code to inconvenience users [11:46]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't need them....I don't write crap scripts like that [11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Richardus, IIRC, it is used incalculating time delaysin the scripting engine in certain places [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but other people do...lots of them [11:46] Hiro Protagonist: they're tools - they're put there to keep parallel code from walking all over itself [11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: What happend to the sandals? [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: llSleep needs to be better implemented but a good implementation is hard [11:46] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats the problem, allowing those things encourages people to write bad scripts [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and people who know nothing about scripting then "buy" those [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then put 50 of them out on their sims [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then complain about crappy sim performance [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya that is bound to happen no matter what we do [11:47]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: those delays may be the only thing saving the day, lol [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i cant tell you how many times people have shown up on the osgrid irc complaining about performance [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: only to find out they have 36 region single instance simulator running [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol [11:47] Hiro Protagonist: lol [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: or 100 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: of a 10km2 var region [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: hey I resemble that remark ;) [11:48]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :) [11:48] Hiro Protagonist has a 2km var [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: thats the upper limit [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: we support up to 2048 [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it's water though? [11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I recently found trying to change clothing in a big var is a lot slower than doing it ina regular region [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: anything beyond that is dragonville [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: but, it runs slicker than hammered cat poo [11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: still need to decidde what size i go use next time. now using 3x3 [11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: maby 5x5 [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya i have decided that 768x768 is the best performance overall [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: for my needs anyway [11:49] Hiro Protagonist: I got a 5x5 on the same box [11:49] Hiro Protagonist: both run great [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 100 regions in an instance - fully loaded with prims, using temp object rezzers to pack in more prims [11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but 3x3 is already enough space to fill, just build smaller. [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: guess it depends on what your doing [11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: temp. rerzzers. hmmbrr [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if your treating your var like the equivalent amount of land as 256x256 regions [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ie 15k prims and lots of scripts [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: then going large doesnt benefit you [11:50] Hiro Protagonist: the 5x5 has over 38k prims and god only knows how many scripts [11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think i have set my 3x3 at max 40k prims now [11:50] Hiro Protagonist: but it doesn't hiccup or fuss or stutter [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i meant 15k per 256 peice of land of your var [11:50] Hiro Protagonist: nor does the 2km, but it is actually rather lightly loaded [11:51] Hiro Protagonist: OH lol [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: if your treating a 3x3 var the same as 9 seperate regions [11:51] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: Hi Key! [11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Richardus, watch the console during start up to see how many scripts get loaded [11:51] Hiro Protagonist: no, nothing I have is anywhere near so dense [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: or larger than that, its going to end bad [11:51] Hiro Protagonist: yah [11:51] Key Gruin: hey folks :) [11:51]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hey Key [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Key [11:51]  Hiro Protagonist: o/ [11:51]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hey Key Gruni [11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi key [11:51]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Richardus, or check parcel stats [11:51]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i neve rgot sofar that i used 40k prims [11:51]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: *Gruin [11:51]  Key Gruin: glad to be here [11:51]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi key [11:51]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi Key [11:52]  Key Gruin: :) [11:52] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I have 20 x 20 for Geo mapping stuff, very few prims though. and some opensim tinkering [11:52] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1 region maby use 24k (not filling it) but not manys cripts [11:52] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I had a regular region of close to 30k prims once [11:52] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: gratz to all osgrid admins :) [11:52]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: everyone be sure to thank Melanie and AllenKerensky too [11:52]  Hiro Protagonist: them gratz goes to Melanie T and Allen Kerensky [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: they played a huge role in getting things back [11:52]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: nope 16k [11:53]  Hiro Protagonist: We more or less just kept them company [11:53]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and Melanie and Alan [11:53]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: We should throw parties on their bdays [11:53]  Hiro Protagonist: word [11:53]  Jak Daniels: ++ yes thank you to all involved in getting osgrid back [11:53]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *Allen [11:53]  Hiro Protagonist: Thank each othe rtoo [11:53]  Hiro Protagonist: doing this was not cheap [11:53] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Need a big "welcome back, osgrid" party [11:53] Jak Daniels: my osgrid regions have started up without any problem [11:54] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: I'll drink to that Andrew! [11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: my region is still up lol [11:54] Hiro Protagonist raises his cup [11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I never stopped it [11:54]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haha Dahlia [11:54] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: seems to work fine [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: 190 days :) [11:54]  Jak Daniels: Mine was running for about 30days after the crash..... [11:54]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: your console must be full off red text for months then [11:54]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: can you HG to it Dahlia? [11:54]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: yes [11:54]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: wowza [11:55]  Jak Daniels: I'm going to go visit that old place I call home after this meeting ;) [11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I eventually shut the others down but I left that one up just for fun [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: Grid should be open soon for everyone [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: this meeting goes a long way to testing things [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: 17 avatars on the grid at the moment [11:56] Hiro Protagonist: most of them here I'm guessing ;) [11:56]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: we should all jump up and down, see if it holds lol [11:56]  Jak Daniels: are we ok to HG around a bit, I want to see if my region looks ok still. ? [11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: sure [11:56]  Hiro Protagonist: everyone open inventory at once! :p j/k [11:56]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: everyone flush at the same time [11:56]  Hiro Protagonist: lol dahlia [11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: i have a few regions running [11:56]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: most is anyway unavailable in inventory [11:56]  Nebadon Izumi: OKC Tower, OKC Theatre, Sisyphus [11:56]  Hiro Protagonist: shambala is up [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: are all up [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: I think all of the Plazas are running [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: going to talk to danbanner later about rolling up a new release [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: then soon hopefully the doors will swing open for all :) [11:59] Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: ::pin:: [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: in the meantime you guys can try bringing up your regions and making an OAR [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: let us know right away if any wierd experiences occur [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: best to shout to us on IRC [12:00] Hiro Protagonist: Mel just logged in [12:00]  Hiro Protagonist: Y'all be sure and let her know how much you appreciate what she did [12:00] Hiro Protagonist: she all but gave us avination's asset backend, and it is impressive, to put it mildly [12:00] Hiro Protagonist: All hail :) [12:00]  Shez.Oyen @mirage.duckdns.org:9038: my Guest Instance started up with no red marks [12:00]  Justin.Clark-Casey @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I need to pop off [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Allen and Melanie [12:01]  Justin.Clark-Casey @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: as it's top of the hour. bye everyone [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin [12:01]  Arielle.Popstar @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: tc Justin [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming [12:01]  Melanie Milland: hi [12:01]  Allen Kerensky: take care Justin [12:01]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye justin [12:01]  Hiro Protagonist: TGhanks Justin! [12:01]  Allen Kerensky: howdy everyone