Chat log from the meeting on 2010-11-16

[18:59] Penny Lane: Hiya Mel!

[19:00] Melchizedek Blauvelt: heya Penny

[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone

[19:01] Playing: ASD-LifeForce.320k

[19:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi all

[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: testing a new patch here today from intel, still seems like we need some more work still on the login stuff

[19:01] Nebadon Izumi: still pretty harsh

[19:01] Sarah Kline: helloo

[19:01] Penny Lane: Hi Rich :-)

[19:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi penny

[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: seems like a high amount of Gas Clouds here at the moment

[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: odd

[19:02] Richardus Raymaker: its cloudy on my screen yes 4 clouds

[19:02] Richardus Raymaker: ok 5

[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya i see 5 also

[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: ah well we'll get that working good soon I hope

[19:02] Penny Lane: Only Hadita is a cloud to me

[19:02] Nebadon Izumi: Mic is traveling until the end of the week

[19:02] Sarah Kline: for me also

[19:02] Hadita Kondor: yes :(

[19:02] Sarah Kline: only 1

[19:02] Melchizedek Blauvelt: Only Hadita for me too

[19:03] Richardus Raymaker: but whats with building, i readed some line when i TPed in.

[19:03] Melchizedek Blauvelt: there she is :)

[19:03] Nebadon Izumi: i see some down at the landing zone

[19:03] Richardus Raymaker: hello hadita

[19:03] Sarah Kline: that was just christmas building nebs doing ^^

[19:03] Richardus Raymaker: :)

[19:03] Penny Lane: Ah yes, Hadita appeared now, hi :-)

[19:04] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya something wierd with appereances still at log in, everyone seems focused on getting it fixed though

[19:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Once this lag goes away I may be able to join the meeting

[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: so we should have some good solutions soon im sure

[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: but ya damn log ins are harsh

[19:04] Andrew Hellershanks: great. Now I can't move

[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya it will balance out

[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: give it a minute

[19:04] Nebadon Izumi: you can probably cam upstairs and take a seat

[19:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I've just camed to the seats

[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: bunch of people logging in at same moment

[19:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew

[19:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin arrived to

[19:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone just getting here :)

[19:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Man that is painful

[19:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia

[19:05] Andrew Hellershanks: hello everyone

[19:05] Sarah Kline: hi justin

[19:05] Sarah Kline: all

[19:05] Penny Lane: Hi Justin

[19:05] Richardus Raymaker: you look a bit clothless

[19:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hello penny, sarah, folks

[19:05] Justin Clark-Casey: is log in lag actually getting worse?

[19:06] Nebadon Izumi: heh i dont think its any worse, but its not any better either

[19:06] Richardus Raymaker: if 10 login at the same time

[19:06] Dahlia Trimble: I look clothless? I look like a cloud to me

[19:06] Richardus Raymaker: no, just nude with hair

[19:06] Dahlia Trimble: lol

[19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yes

[19:06] Andrew Hellershanks: You look like a naked avatar with colourful hair, Dahlia

[19:06] Penny Lane: Hiya Dahlia :-)

[19:06] Dahlia Trimble: well my appearance worked last time I was on osgrid lol

[19:06] Dahlia Trimble whispers: hi :)

[19:06] Penny Lane: Yep, naked + hair. Seems fine to me :P

[19:07] Dahlia Trimble blushes

[19:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[19:07] Andrew Hellershanks: You are representing the nudist portion of the OS users. ;-)

[19:07] Dahlia Trimble: guess I'll try relogging

[19:07] Hadita Kondor: hello :)

[19:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Hadita

[19:08] Richardus Raymaker: who's the cloud right fromme ?

[19:08] Richardus Raymaker: aha hi sarah

[19:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see any clouds

[19:08] Master Dubrovna: Hi everyone. Doing paperwork while monitoring. :)

[19:08] Richardus Raymaker: sarah is cloud

[19:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Sarah Kline is next to your Richardus

[19:08] Richardus Raymaker: and peter

[19:08] Richardus Raymaker: and otaku still cloud to

[19:09] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: heard anything more from mic about appearance work?

[19:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Sarah is hair, shoes, but no clothing

[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya we are actually testing a new patch here

[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: he emailed me a patch

[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: he is traveling at the moment

[19:09] Richardus Raymaker: flavia seems cloud to

[19:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, not as successful as all that, then :)

[19:09] Justin Clark-Casey: right

[19:09] Sarah Kline: um

[19:09] Andrew Hellershanks: What does the patch do, Nebadon

[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: no but he knew it wasnt a complete test

[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: he wanted me to send him some logging

[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: so it could be a little laggier due to some extra debugging

[19:10] Richardus Raymaker: what did you do sarah ? your now visible

[19:10] Justin Clark-Casey: this time you're clothed, dahlia

[19:10] Nebadon Izumi: heh welcome back

[19:10] Richardus Raymaker: yes dahlia ok to

[19:10] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... hadita and flavio are sitting on each others lap.

[19:11] Dahlia Trimble: but now Im floating off into the next sim

[19:11] Dahlia Trimble: ah snapped back

[19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: get a room guys!

[19:11] Richardus Raymaker: just keep flying. its rubberband so you come back

[19:11] Dahlia Trimble: cant walk

[19:11] Marga String: shit

[19:11] Richardus Raymaker: yes. sim fps 0.00 so let it settle

[19:12] Sarah Kline: did appearance rich

[19:12] Dahlia Trimble: who writes this crappy sim software anyway :P

[19:12] Richardus Raymaker: intressting.

[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: well the sim is getting hammered pretty hard at the moment

[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: few people walking around too

[19:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi otaku. your out of the cloud to

[19:12] Penny Lane: It's not written. It's fermented, in batches.

[19:13] Dahlia Trimble: bad batch

[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: login needs to really be alot more optimized though for sure

[19:13] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty harsh

[19:13] OtakuMegane Desu: The usual issues are still around I guess

[19:13] Andrew Hellershanks: May explain why several avatars haven't gotten their clothes when they first appear hear

[19:13] Richardus Raymaker: sarah, need to try that next time on myself.

[19:14] UUID Speaker: Hans Meiser: bfce7eed-2d0c-43e6-ba3b-4357925de44e

[19:14] Richardus Raymaker: so if peter is doing appereance he posisble gets a normal avatar ?

[19:14] Penny Lane: This isn't SL and its puritanism. The nudity is somewhat endearing :-)

[19:14] Peter Klein: I can't wear anything

[19:15] Peter Klein: Im a cloud?

[19:15] Penny Lane: Especially when involuntary, lol

[19:15] Dahlia Trimble: not in wintertime

[19:15] Richardus Raymaker: in SL you get shot if you walk nude on places like this :P

[19:15] Andrew Hellershanks: We are programmers. We don't care about our clothing and appearance. :-)

[19:15] Richardus Raymaker: yes peter, your cloud for me

[19:15] Penny Lane: Wanna bet?

[19:15] Peter Klein: My avatar is broken in osgrid?

[19:15] Sarah Kline: lol

[19:15] Penny Lane: Yes, Peter is too for me

[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: i could purge out your appereance Peter

[19:16] Richardus Raymaker: peter, go into appereance and out

[19:16] Penny Lane: So, what's new on the tech front?

[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: so you go back to ruth

[19:16] Andrew Hellershanks: He is a naked avatar to me

[19:16] Dahlia Trimble: mine works with hippo, I was a naked cloud in imprudence

[19:16] Copied key for Peter Klein to clipboard: b4542f5f-683c-40ea-85a7-d0312ab4d31a

[19:16] Peter Klein: not possible to do that, the Appearance is greyed out on pie-menu

[19:16] Penny Lane: LOL, "naked cloud" doesn't compute :P

[19:16] Dahlia Trimble: a naked could with hair :)

[19:16] Sarah Kline: well the clouds have improved a little the past week

[19:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Peter isn't a cloud to me

[19:16] Sarah Kline: not so many at LBSA

[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: Peter try relogging

[19:17] Peter Klein: ok

[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: yoiu will be back to the standard ruth

[19:17] Richardus Raymaker: strange,now flavio is cloud again. only switched to other desktop

[19:18] Penny Lane: Neb, is all this still fallout from 0.69->0.7 migration, or are these new issues from further iterations now? (I see we're on 0.7.1)

[19:18] Nebadon Izumi: probably a bit of a mix

[19:18] Nebadon Izumi: lots of things are being frefactored

[19:18] Dahlia Trimble: probably fallout from trying to integrate viewer 2 appearances

[19:19] Penny Lane: Oh!

[19:19] Richardus Raymaker: ohh its LL fault ! :))

[19:19] Dahlia Trimble: yep blame LL :)

[19:19] Sarah Kline: yes the second manditory was a bit hard

[19:19] Penny Lane: Didn't know about that. What change does LL V2 Appearance have on Opensim?

[19:20] Penny Lane: effect, I mean

[19:20] Dahlia Trimble: I dont know the details, but I guess there are more clothing items required for a complete avatar

[19:20] Dahlia Trimble: and new folders

[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not fully up on the details either, but ya that and layers

[19:20] Penny Lane: Who is doing that work?

[19:20] Dahlia Trimble: hmmm

[19:20] Dahlia Trimble: Intel did some

[19:20] Andrew Hellershanks: v2 added a couple of other clothing types

[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: ive seen Mic and Melanie working on it

[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: maybe some others too

[19:21] Peter Klein: :-)

[19:21] Richardus Raymaker: lost & found and trashcan cannot be empty ? trash we know

[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if Justin as looked at that stuff at all

[19:21] Justin Clark-Casey: afaik Mic has just been working on existing appearance stuff - cutting down some of the redundant sends

[19:21] Dahlia Trimble: Melanie added some of her code-foo to it

[19:21] Penny Lane: Interesting

[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think at this point its just a matter of fine tuning some of the code

[19:22] Penny Lane: Must be damn annoying when an LL change forces work here.

[19:22] Justin Clark-Casey: ye....es

[19:22] Dahlia Trimble: happens all the time

[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: i think it will get worked out pretty quickly, though Mic is on the road until thursday or friday

[19:23] Andrew Hellershanks: worked out pretty quickly? Um... haven't we been having this problem for the last week or two?

[19:23] Richardus Raymaker: hi peter

[19:23] lillith xue: Hi all

[19:23] Dahlia Trimble: several weeks?

[19:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah

[19:23] Richardus Raymaker: next week. uhmm, quick. hmm ok.

[19:23] Peter Klein: yeah, cloud is gone ;-) I try to wear some clothes now

[19:23] lillith xue: Dev-Meeting?

[19:23] Dahlia Trimble: logging in with the mesh viewer might aggrivate it

[19:24] Dahlia Trimble: but mesh viewer works find on my standalones

[19:24] Justin Clark-Casey: lilth: yes

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive not had much trouble with the V2 viewers lately

[19:24] lillith xue: a great

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: no more than with other viewers

[19:24] Penny Lane: Neb's gone over to the Dark Side

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: the problem mostly with the v2 is the current outfit folder

[19:24] Peter Klein: Mhhh, why does wearing some clothes pushing me away?

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: you can build up 100's of items

[19:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Its the mesh stuff that has pulled him over

[19:24] Richardus Raymaker: i get a system seralization runtime error when i make iar.

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: and after 500-800 items in that folder you cant log in anymore

[19:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Peter, I think that is a known issue

[19:25] Dahlia Trimble: I use the mesh viewer a lot

[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: but ive not seen it happen alot

[19:25] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: with most recent code?

[19:25] Richardus Raymaker: mono 2.8.1 with osgrid opensim from lats week

[19:26] lillith xue: I have a question, is these the right place to ask?

[19:26] Richardus Raymaker: spam mode

[19:26] Richardus Raymaker: 20:22:54 - [FLOTSAM ASSET CACHE]: System.Runtime.Serialization.SerializationException: serializationStream supports seeking, but its length is 0 20:22:54 - [FLOTSAM ASSET CACHE]: at System.Runtime.Serialization.Formatters.Binary.BinaryFormatter.NoCheckDeserialize (System.IO.Stream serializationStream, System.Runtime.Remoting.Messaging.HeaderHandler handler) [0x00000] in :0 20:22:54 - [FLOTSAM ASSET CACHE]: at System.Runtime.Serialization.Formatters.Binary.BinaryFormatter.Deserialize (System.IO.Stream serializationStream) [0x00000] in :0 20:22:54 - [FLOTSAM ASSET CACHE]: at Flotsam.RegionModules.AssetCache.FlotsamAssetCache.Get (System.String id) [0x00000] in :0

[19:26] Richardus Raymaker: -

[19:26] Penny Lane: Worries me that the TPVs are losing people to LL's vision of how things should be, just because of crappy mesh.

[19:26] Justin Clark-Casey: lilth: yes

[19:26] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: this looks like some problem with the flotasm asset cache

[19:26] Peter Klein: ah ok

[19:26] Richardus Raymaker: aha. maby because slow network justin

[19:27] AEH Solo is Online

[19:27] Richardus Raymaker: its only item sofar i see

[19:27] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: I hear kokua/imprudence are starting a branch based on 2.0

[19:27] lillith xue: Ok my server randomly crashes, The error message says that somethink cant located in the libode, i had these error on the befours server too.

[19:27] Penny Lane: JCC: yeah, but a long way off. Same for the Phoenix lot.

[19:27] Sarah Kline: most are going over

[19:27] Sarah Kline: they have to

[19:27] Melchizedek Blauvelt: Phoenix are too, they'll be working with SpotOn3D

[19:28] Richardus Raymaker: my server is very stable.. but i hear more people that say the server crash spontanic (windows) with nothing intressting

[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: lilth: unfortunately that's probably an ode error which one can't do much about, until we try upgrading to ode 11.5 perhaps

[19:28] Justin Clark-Casey: lilth: do you have any/many physics objects?

[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: i'll have to try the very latest ODE code here again soon myself

[19:28] Penny Lane: Mel: really? That's a BIG change. The ex-Emerald bunch have traditionally held nothing but disinterest, or even disdain, for Opensim.

[19:28] lillith xue: I tried to install an other libode from my system, but this doesnt work, i think that are different versions

[19:29] lillith xue: No only normal objects, it crashes while building

[19:29] Richardus Raymaker: only thing i really like from kirsten is the much better graphics and framerate.

[19:29] Dahlia Trimble: theres some older ones often distributed with other software, best to not use them

[19:29] Justin Clark-Casey: lilth: that is strange, I haven't heard of that particularyl trouble before. Which OS are you on?

[19:30] Richardus Raymaker: oh nebadon, wich mono do you use ? sofar now im very happy with mono 2.8.1

[19:30] Dahlia Trimble: I have, had it myself with debian

[19:30] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: ode crashing which building?

[19:30] Justin Clark-Casey: er, while

[19:30] lillith xue: Have openSuSE 11.3 with mono grom its default repository

[19:30] Dahlia Trimble: wrong ode version distributed in some software in debian

[19:30] lillith xue: *from

[19:31] Richardus Raymaker: thats mono 2.6.7

[19:31] Richardus Raymaker: i use opensuse 11.3 64bit. (compiled mono)

[19:31] lillith xue: i tried to install libode-devel from packman ande kopied the libode to the opensim folger, but it doesnt work, its to old/new

[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: ive been using mono 2.8

[19:32] Dahlia Trimble: use the one we distribute with opensim

[19:32] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, I don't even have libode installed on my ubuntu

[19:32] Justin Clark-Casey: lilith: yeah, you might want to try that - remove all the system ode packages

[19:32] lillith xue: already done

[19:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the ode used in opensim actually has a few source code tweaks....

[19:33] Justin Clark-Casey: lilth: ah

[19:33] lillith xue: its an empty server, only opensim apache and mysql

[19:33] Dahlia Trimble: yep Teravus did some tweaks to it

[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are some things you need to do when compiling ODE yourself

[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya i dont know all exactly what Teravus did

[19:33] Dahlia Trimble: he told me once but I forgot

[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: i did get the newest ODE working fairly good though

[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: i have some notes of what we did

[19:34] Dahlia Trimble: should be in the commit logs

[19:34] lillith xue: its ok, i will try out the next opensim verion, i think it will be solved there

[19:34] lillith xue: is it better to use momo 2.8 or should i keep 2.6?

[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: its best to test both and figure out which one works best

[19:34] Dahlia Trimble: I prefer 2.4.2.3 :)

[19:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: would it though if the ode source is patched directly?

[19:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I prefer 2.6.7 :)

[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: i stay away from the zypper mono. from now i build them self.

[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya with mono its best to just use what works best

[19:35] Richardus Raymaker: 2.8.1 is more smooth then 2.6.7

[19:35] Dahlia Trimble: should be in the commit logs for the ODE libs in opensim-libs repo

[19:35] lillith xue: the first 2.6 packages had sqlite errors, it is solved now

[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: i have a completely differnt experience with mono on Fedora than i do with it on SuSe

[19:35] lillith xue: i user mysql now

[19:35] AEH Solo is Offline

[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya I think if your going to do anything serious on the grid, using mysql is key

[19:36] Dahlia Trimble: he also gave me the links to the ODE forum discussions he was having about whatever changes he made, but they would take a while to dig up

[19:36] lillith xue: Never tried Fedora, i use SuSE all the time

[19:36] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I might ask you for those some time. Not right yet, though :)

[19:36] Dahlia Trimble: kk

[19:36] lillith xue: Ah is there any fix for the HUD-Problem?

[19:37] Justin Clark-Casey: which particular hud problem?

[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: not just yet, seems when you wear a hud

[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: somtimes you see hair and other wierd objects in the center of your screen

[19:37] Justin Clark-Casey: is that recent?

[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: apparantly what it is, other peoples attachments

[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: not really

[19:38] lillith xue: The problem if i wear a hud i will see my hair in the middle of my screen

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: there has been some recent work to try to address it

[19:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I've never seen it, but it's possible I've just never hit the issue

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: but its still not 100% fixed yet

[19:38] Justin Clark-Casey: huh, how wierd

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: it seems also tied to the rogue prims sometimes at 0,0,0

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: they are messed up attachments or something

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: they pile up at 0,0,0 and also seem to make their way onto your screen when you have a hud attacheed

[19:39] Richardus Raymaker: i think attacments get messed up because the region runs older 0.7 version

[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: that hair on hud issue was present in 0.6.9 too

[19:39] Penny Lane attaches /dev/null to (0,0,0)

[19:39] AEH Solo is Online

[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: it just got a bit worse in 0.7

[19:39] Dahlia Trimble: it can be fun to take a peek at what's at 0,0,0 now and then :)

[19:40] Richardus Raymaker: keep it burried if you find dead body's

[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya usually when you restart the sim it all goes away

[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: its never stored in the DB itself

[19:41] lillith xue: hmm and another question, Will the osNPCCreate function come back?

[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have many times tried to find them in the DB

[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: but they are just not there

[19:41] Dahlia Trimble: they're just prim bodies, not like they have an eternal soul or anything

[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: heheh

[19:41] Justin Clark-Casey: windowless monads

[19:42] Penny Lane: Dahlia: so what's this OSeternalSoul.dll here then?

[19:42] Dahlia Trimble: oh that

[19:42] Justin Clark-Casey: lilith: come back? it's still there as a function

[19:42] Dahlia Trimble: *sweeps under rug*

[19:42] Penny Lane chuckles

[19:42] Justin Clark-Casey: whether it really works properly or not is another issue

[19:43] lillith xue: the npc never spawn

[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not sure if that ever worked 100%

[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: or even at all

[19:43] Justin Clark-Casey: I vaguely remember some talk about this on the mailing lists a while back

[19:43] lillith xue: i tried many times, since 0.7 it is impossible

[19:44] lillith xue: on 0.6 it worked for me

[19:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess whoever put that function in is not maintaining it

[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: I remember Diva ended up writing a Region module for sim side bots instead

[19:44] Dave Coyle is Online

[19:44] Dahlia Trimble: there were some changes in 0.7x that messed up NPCs

[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think those functions were made by Adam?

[19:44] Dahlia Trimble: I added an overload to a scene function to help but I havent tried it with region modules

[19:44] Richardus Raymaker: how can you clear lanmding point. it seems i cannot remove it from about land. i always start at the same position

[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: i should ask diva if she can share any of her server side bot module

[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: she had this crazy sim built

[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: it had 100's of bots

[19:45] Dahlia Trimble: I think it was pre-0.7

[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: and cars

[19:45] Dave Coyle is Offline

[19:45] lillith xue: Its boring on a empty sim, so i want to create some npc-bots, but not it doesnt work, client-side bots, neet to much traffic

[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: it had traffic simulations and stuff

[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: it was really cool

[19:45] Justin Clark-Casey: lilith: yeah, it would probably be a good function to have working again

[19:45] Andrew Hellershanks: MySQL is the way to go until you get a large amount of asset data then you run in to the risk of triggering a MySQL issue that can corrupt(?) the database.

[19:46] Richardus Raymaker: i use mariadb now

[19:46] Nebadon Izumi: mysql can handle huge tables

[19:46] Dahlia Trimble: problem with NPCs is they conflicted with hypergrid security code that was added

[19:46] Nebadon Izumi: its just not a great idea to store blobs in the DB itself

[19:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, not when there are loads of blobs in it. That what you(?) and Melanie(?) have been saying.

[19:46] Dahlia Trimble: so they got disabled along the way, I added that overload but Im not sure it's sufficient

[19:47] Penny Lane: Neb, that would be terrific if you could ask Diva about that. It's one of the big features, NPCs

[19:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya Andrew

[19:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I was trying to check out coyled's SRAS thing but I couldn't build it.

[19:47] Nebadon Izumi: blobs in the mysql db has its limits

[19:47] Andrew Hellershanks: And there doesn't seem to be any ready solutions to that problem

[19:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[19:47] lillith xue: someone knows how i can send opensim-commands into a screen session? I want to create a backup script with a cron-job

[19:47] Nebadon Izumi: its probably going to require a bit of custom craftwork at this point

[19:48] Andrew Hellershanks: coyled mentioned adding an sras like caching for the asset server in SimianGrid but it will be a few days yet.

[19:48] Nebadon Izumi: I know coyled was talking about moving osgrid assets onto SimainGrids asset system eventually

[19:49] Nebadon Izumi: but he was going to rewrite it so it has a similar system to sras

[19:49] Dave Coyle is Online

[19:49] Nebadon Izumi: even simiangrid is still not capable of that type of setup yet either

[19:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Changing the OS asset server to use an on disk cache for blobs seems like the best bet.

[19:49] Dahlia Trimble: the regions have local cache too

[19:49] Richardus Raymaker: hi dave

[19:49] Dave Coyle: hi

[19:50] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)

[19:50] Richardus Raymaker: hope dave's body rezz

[19:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, speaking of coyled... hehe

[19:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Dave

[19:50] Richardus Raymaker: your invisible with hat dave

[19:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I was hoping I could have something I could use for storing blobs on disk with 069 to make it easier and faster to migrate to 0.7 as the db tables would be smaller without the blob data in them. At least, that is what I was hoping.

[19:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I can see Dave's hat, brainsteam nad pancreas

[19:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know at what point MySQL may blow up.

[19:52] Dave Coyle: bodies are overrated

[19:52] Justin Clark-Casey grins

[19:52] Dahlia Trimble: mines underrated :)

[19:53] Nebadon Izumi: heh hey Dave

[19:53] Dave Coyle: hola

[19:53] Richardus Raymaker: it seems to work still on osgrid with grid serve r:)

[19:53] Justin Clark-Casey: well, huge sites like facebook use mysql so I'm guessing not for a while?

[19:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, nebadon said I'm at risk now as I have almost 50GB in assets

[19:54] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, osgrid must have more. so now im lost

[19:54] Andrew Hellershanks: osgrid is using SRAS system

[19:54] Richardus Raymaker: aha ok

[19:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still using a stock OS when it comes to asset handling

[19:55] Richardus Raymaker: then regions with 1 big database can get problems to

[19:55] Andrew Hellershanks: perhaps but you aren't likely to have many gigs of data in the regions table unless you have a *very* big grid

[19:55] Dahlia Trimble: I was looking at riak a while back but no time :(

[19:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder how easy/hard it would be to use coyled's SRAS on disk caching scheme in the OS asset server

[19:56] Nebadon Izumi: well best thing you can do Andrew is just keep good backups

[19:56] Dahlia Trimble: https://wiki.basho.com/display/RIAK/Riak

[19:56] Penny Lane: Riak type technology seems better suited to VW asset storage, but I bet it would be an uphill battle.

[19:57] Dave Coyle: andrew: there's really nothing to it. just write a file and keep the metadata in mysql.

[19:57] Penny Lane: people seem to have a lot of mental investment in RDBMSs

[19:57] Dahlia Trimble: dont need a RDBMS for assets tho

[19:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, yes but if the DB does blow up, will I have to use the back and possibly lose some of the newest assets or can the blown db be salvaged?

[19:58] Andrew Hellershanks: use the back -> use the backup

[19:58] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew i dont think we ever lost assets

[19:58] Nebadon Izumi: if we did is was very minimal

[19:58] lillith xue: do osgrid have a cluster? Or is that one single server?

[19:58] Nebadon Izumi: we just had some downtimes as the tables repaired

[19:58] Justin Clark-Casey: remind me what sras is?

[19:58] Dave Coyle: one server with a backup

[19:59] Dave Coyle: but it's not a hot standby

[19:59] Nebadon Izumi: SRAS is daves Ruby on Rails Asset server

[19:59] Dave Coyle: it's terrible

[19:59] Justin Clark-Casey: ah ok

[19:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[19:59] Justin Clark-Casey: :)

[19:59] Dave Coyle: rails sucks

[19:59] Andrew Hellershanks: my grid isn't that busy or growing very fast so I'm probably ok for now but I would like to do something to avoid the problem rather than have to fix things after the fact

[19:59] Dahlia Trimble: Simple Rails Asset Server?

[19:59] lillith xue: I have a great server, but my connection is to low to share it with you ;-)

[19:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I expect maintaining even a small grid is going to be like maintaininga medium size website

[20:00] Penny Lane: Centralized asset storage is a dead end. The sooner you come to terms with that, the less you'll suffer :-)

[20:00] Andrew Hellershanks: coyled's sras thing won't build with Rails 3 and I forget now what happened when I tried to build it with Rails 2.3.5

[20:01] Andrew Hellershanks: If assets are stored on disk it would be possible to use a distributed file system for storing assets

[20:01] Dahlia Trimble: I had a tiered asset server patch once, maybe I should try to revive it sometime and commit it. It allowed both local shared assets and central assets

[20:02] Justin Clark-Casey: isn't that what the asset cache does?

[20:02] Dahlia Trimble: not really

[20:02] Dave Coyle: andrew: simiangrid's asset server supports mongodb out of the box, if that's of interest

[20:02] Dahlia Trimble: this allowed other regions to share the local assets

[20:02] Andrew Hellershanks: yet another database?

[20:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yada yada :)

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[20:03] Penny Lane: I'm kind of surprised Opensim isn't actively designing around distributed asset storage. Even just the OSgrid experience alone clearly shows how the pain of centralized storage is rapidly approaching.

[20:03] Dahlia Trimble: cache is instance specific

[20:03] Andrew Hellershanks looks up mongodb

[20:03] Dave Coyle: http://www.mongodb.org/

[20:03] Dahlia Trimble: Penny, I think SimianGrid is

[20:04] Dahlia Trimble: isnt mongodb more than a key-value store?

[20:04] Dave Coyle: no

[20:04] Dave Coyle: err, sorry

[20:04] Dahlia Trimble: I must be thinking of another

[20:04] Penny Lane: Well Hurli keeps muttering "will have multiple asset services one day", but I've not seen evidence of it yet. SimianGrid regions still just have one asset services, afaik

[20:04] Dave Coyle: "more than a key value store"?

[20:04] Dave Coyle: it's not a key value store, if that's what you mean

[20:05] Dahlia Trimble: like doing formatted queries of XML documents or something

[20:05] Penny Lane: The point is, distributed asset storage is not just an "add on". It needs to be the very core of your design.

[20:05] Penny Lane: As fundamental to your design as distribution is to DNS.

[20:05] Dahlia Trimble: ya riak is ust key-blob, and it's distributed

[20:05] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I need to get back to doing some boring work. Goodbye folks

[20:05] Dahlia Trimble: *just

[20:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd be happy to just get the blobs out of the asset db tables for now

[20:05] Penny Lane: Cya Justin

[20:06] Dahlia Trimble: bye :)

[20:06] Andrew Hellershanks: cya, Justin

[20:06] Sarah Kline: bye Justin

[20:06] Justin Clark-Casey waves

[20:06] Dahlia Trimble: I need to go too, bye all :)

[20:06] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

[20:06] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin

[20:07] Nebadon Izumi: well im glad to see everyone on the couch is not a cloud

[20:07] Nebadon Izumi: wierd that Dave is semi invisible

[20:07] Richardus Raymaker: hehe

[20:07] Richardus Raymaker: yes

[20:07] Nebadon Izumi: not a cloud though

[20:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I should head out and finish off the last of my Christmas cards and get them dropped in the mail.

[20:08] Nebadon Izumi: nice ya hour is up anywa

[20:08] Sarah Kline: lol

[20:08] Sarah Kline: bye all

[20:08] Nebadon Izumi: see you Sarah

[20:08] Richardus Raymaker: i head out to. lots to prepare for tomorrow

[20:09] Nebadon Izumi: k Richardus, see you, thanks for coming guys

[20:09] Richardus Raymaker: bye sarah

[20:09] Penny Lane: Have fun Neb

[20:09] Richardus Raymaker: bye all

[20:09] Andrew Hellershanks: See you all next week

[20:09] Penny Lane: Cyu Andrew

[20:09] Nebadon Izumi: see ya :)

[20:10] Dave Coyle is Offline

[20:15] lillith xue: Ok bye bye all i go back to my sim

[20:15] Nebadon Izumi: see ya :)

[20:19] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

[20:19] Helena Franizzi is Offline

[20:20] Master Dubrovna: Good day to everyone. Gotta run