Chat log from the meeting on 2014-04-08

[2014/04/08 11:01] dan banner: debug AFKTimeout? [2014/04/08 11:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/04/08 11:01] Andrew Hellershanks waves hello [2014/04/08 11:01] Connected [2014/04/08 11:01] Dev Random: hello Mr. Hellershanks [2014/04/08 11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok et hopefully that helps [2014/04/08 11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [2014/04/08 11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [2014/04/08 11:01] dan banner: hey justin [2014/04/08 11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I had trouble TPing to here from a sandbox. I had to log out and log in directly to here. [2014/04/08 11:01] Dev Random: howdy justin [2014/04/08 11:01] Andrew Hellershanks is Online [2014/04/08 11:02] Lani Global: greetings Simlings. [2014/04/08 11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Justin [2014/04/08 11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: might be a bit in and out today - my uncle is coming over to look at some things that need doing outside the house [2014/04/08 11:03] Marcus Llewellyn: The outside is highly overrated. [2014/04/08 11:03] Lani Global: Bob's your uncle. [2014/04/08 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: Unfortunately the outside isn't going away :) [2014/04/08 11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: so, any opensim or related topics to discuss this week? [2014/04/08 11:05]  Marcus Llewellyn: Yes, but we now have Amazon to make sure we only need to interact with it as little as possible. ;) [2014/04/08 11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to see about filing some bug reports this week (or even today). One bug I'd like to see fixed is the reporting of line numbers where errors are located in script files. [2014/04/08 11:06] Robert Adams: brb [2014/04/08 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: did you get the parser/lexer creation working? [2014/04/08 11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't had time to get back to it but I am able to build the programs/tools. [2014/04/08 11:07] dan banner: maybe 6872 can get some attention too? [2014/04/08 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah it needs to be fixed but I don't think that ti's going to be simple [2014/04/08 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: since it can't be checked by the parser itself, it has to be done in some post parsing step to see that all the states you are trying to use actually match states that exist in the script [2014/04/08 11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm thinking that if #line directives were output in the C# code being compiled that may be a simple way to fix the issue. [2014/04/08 11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: having said that, I don't fully know how we currently check other similar things like function calls, which should be similar [2014/04/08 11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I have two projects to finish off before I can get back to it. [2014/04/08 11:10] Dev Random: could also be done in a pre-parsing step "sanity checking" the script [2014/04/08 11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: wouldn't that effectively be parsing it to extract the information? [2014/04/08 11:10] Dev Random: (not volunteering) [2014/04/08 11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: dan, for 6872 I think you would have to do a post C# code generation step to see if the state was defined. [2014/04/08 11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Dev, either pre or post. Post would be more typical. [2014/04/08 11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Uh oh. smile everyone. Someone is taking pictures. :) [2014/04/08 11:11] Robert Adams is trying Firestorm DUI... it is pretty alpha but it is a start [2014/04/08 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: dui? [2014/04/08 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, dynamic user interface [2014/04/08 11:12]  Robert Adams: it allows the viewer dialogs to be outside the viewer window [2014/04/08 11:12]  Marcus Llewellyn: I only saw a lil blurb about DUI. Is it working across multi-monitor? [2014/04/08 11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ya looks great [2014/04/08 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's not an april fool's joke? :) [2014/04/08 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: will be awesome for machinima [2014/04/08 11:12] Robert Adams: supposed to work on multi-monitor [2014/04/08 11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ah I see, now I can see the real post [2014/04/08 11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I wanted to review the BNF that describes the LSL to see if there are some errors/omissions that might be why some of the errors exist (or are allowed) in LSL scripts. [2014/04/08 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you will be able to adjust Windlight settings while doing video capture im looking forward to trying that [2014/04/08 11:13] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: DUI works across 2 monitors here [2014/04/08 11:13] Robert Adams: I am having problems with resizing and updats to the dialogs... it's not 100% yet [2014/04/08 11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome. :) [2014/04/08 11:13] dan banner: it has a few issues [2014/04/08 11:13]  Marcus Llewellyn: I don't think you can do things like drag inventory from the world to an external floater either. [2014/04/08 11:13]  Robert Adams: at least as functional as varregions :-) [2014/04/08 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: lol [2014/04/08 11:14] dan banner: like you cant drag inventory from inv window to avatar unless the window is inside the viewer [2014/04/08 11:14] Fearghus McMahon: evening all [2014/04/08 11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: hi fearghus [2014/04/08 11:14] Dahlia Trimble is Online [2014/04/08 11:14] Richardus Raymaker: sorry. needed todo something quick [2014/04/08 11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hi fearghus justin, neb all [2014/04/08 11:15] Fearghus McMahon: hey Richardus [2014/04/08 11:15] Sarah Kline: hi [2014/04/08 11:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: I had another interesting script issue in the last day. I typed a function name without the and it accepted the line but the script didn't work properly. [2014/04/08 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus [2014/04/08 11:16] vegaslon plutonian: bulletsim: anyone seeing any problems with the avatar shape being a rectangle? [2014/04/08 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes, to be honest that's probably because we don't actually do function existence checking.... [2014/04/08 11:16] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Does not like small people, bumpy over flat terrain [2014/04/08 11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, that could get tied in with handling bug 6872 [2014/04/08 11:16] Richardus Raymaker: not sure what problem it is or bug. own grid: when i edit soemtimes object a face dont change color. or changeing number in singularity reverts things back and then forward to the setting. things like that [2014/04/08 11:16] Dahlia Trimble: hi [2014/04/08 11:16]  Robert Adams: ya... anyproblems with different shaped avatars? [2014/04/08 11:16] Richardus Raymaker: hi robert [2014/04/08 11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it might be necessary to have some new chunk of code to handle post parsing checks in general [2014/04/08 11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: before the conversion of the lsl ast to c# [2014/04/08 11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: justin, yes, that is what I'm thinking. [2014/04/08 11:17] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: BulletSim: Does not like small people, bumpy over flat terrain [2014/04/08 11:17] Richardus Raymaker: whats small ? 1.82 seems to work fine for me [2014/04/08 11:18]  Robert Adams queues a Randy Newman song [2014/04/08 11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [2014/04/08 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: Ken_S reported issues with border crossing in certain directions [2014/04/08 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: like it was fine going south, but not north [2014/04/08 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: to me it sort of indicated that the capsule might not be rotating with vatar [2014/04/08 11:18] Robert Adams: directional problems is a little odd [2014/04/08 11:18] Richardus Raymaker: what i have seen that wlaking stairs is still problematic. still need support prim for walking. and the steps where only .250 high [2014/04/08 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: avatar*, does the new rectangle capsule still use a tilt? [2014/04/08 11:19] vegaslon plutonian: I looked at that and the avatar sinked into the ground crossing borders before the avatar shape was changed [2014/04/08 11:19] dan banner: my concern is sinking feet, capsule snagging on small lips/edges and theres a few stairs that used to be fine are completely broke now [2014/04/08 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya there is also wierd issue with feet sink [2014/04/08 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: check this out [2014/04/08 11:19] Robert Adams: ah... that's a possibility... I'll look into the passing of the rotation... there was a time it didn't happen [2014/04/08 11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I tried to make a small avatar but I can't make it small enough with the numbers. Haven't figured out how to properly make an invisible skin so that the worn prims are the only thing visible. [2014/04/08 11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: How small do you need? [2014/04/08 11:20] Robert Adams: what size stairs don't work, dan? [2014/04/08 11:20] Richardus Raymaker: mouse size ! :) [2014/04/08 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: see feet sinking here Robert [2014/04/08 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: lol, not sure what happens with that size btw [2014/04/08 11:20]  vegaslon plutonian: once had a avatar that was a roll of duct tape [2014/04/08 11:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, I still have a physics issue to file. [2014/04/08 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: on a standard cube feet sink in [2014/04/08 11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: but watch as i move over to the tapered cube [2014/04/08 11:20]  Marcus Llewellyn: Ummmm, yeah [2014/04/08 11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: ahe yes nebadon. i have seen soemtimes feet sinking to. its just a little bit [2014/04/08 11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: no feet sink [2014/04/08 11:21]  Ken Savage: Stairs made from stacked rectangles work very different than ones made from rectangles cut into an L [2014/04/08 11:21]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I have a lot a mesh avatars, most less than 1.2m tall [2014/04/08 11:21] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm. one otehr thing. feet still follow terrain angle. instead oif the prim your walking on [2014/04/08 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: very odd it works ok on tapered but not on unmodified cube [2014/04/08 11:21] Ai Austin is Online [2014/04/08 11:21] vwbpe 2014 hud: Hello, Avatar!3 [2014/04/08 11:22] Robert Adams: what is an connonical avatar? there are so many different avatars and AO settings and such [2014/04/08 11:22] Ken Savage: Today discovered that walking across sim borders North to South is MUCH slower than South to North. [2014/04/08 11:22] Robert Adams: I've been making Ruth at 0%, 50% and 100% size work [2014/04/08 11:22] Robert Adams: are there other configurations I should be testing for standing/stand postion settings? [2014/04/08 11:23] Ai Austin: Hello everyone [2014/04/08 11:23] Richardus Raymaker: i keep aroun d 1.8meters as normal size [2014/04/08 11:23] Lani Global: i'm a 50% [2014/04/08 11:23] Dahlia Trimble: 0%? [2014/04/08 11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd be happy to package up this mouse for testing. [2014/04/08 11:23] Lani Global: my feet sink slightly into a standard prim here. [2014/04/08 11:23] Ai Austin: talking of avatars. I noticed that the recent updates has significantly altered the height for a short 1.2m mesh avatar (GerryMander Lizard) [2014/04/08 11:23] Lani Global: AO off. [2014/04/08 11:23] Richardus Raymaker: this one is 40 on height slider. not sure how the otehr one is. [2014/04/08 11:24] Fearghus McMahon: how doesthe avatar hoover setting from appearance editor tie into this? [2014/04/08 11:24] Ai Austin: It had a hover of 42 and I had to alter it to 50 to work after tweh change [2014/04/08 11:24] Robert Adams: what is your height, nebadon? why are you floating? [2014/04/08 11:24] Ai Austin: At 50 its feet are JUST on the ground on terrain but sink 10cm into the solid surface of prim base [2014/04/08 11:24] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon is not floating on my screen [2014/04/08 11:25] Sarah Kline: height number 23 (avatar height 5ft3 ) [2014/04/08 11:25] Robert Adams: and I haven't found out why terrain appears to be so off.... might have to revert the compressor if I can't find the solution [2014/04/08 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: floating? [2014/04/08 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: im not floating on my screen [2014/04/08 11:25] Richardus Raymaker: can the height setting not be usedfor capsule size ? [2014/04/08 11:25] dan banner: i see nebadon sinking in to a prim [2014/04/08 11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev          af40674: 2014-04-08 08:11:30 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [2014/04/08 11:25] Lani Global: neb, you are right, when i step onto this tapered prim, i don't sink as much [2014/04/08 11:25] Fearghus McMahon: on my screen his feet ar slightly in the prim [2014/04/08 11:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Are there also problems with over-sized avatars? [2014/04/08 11:25] Lani Global: but i still sink a little [2014/04/08 11:25] Ken Savage: My AV is max height and prim boots go into the ground when standing on a prim. Barefoot appears correct. [2014/04/08 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: my avatar height is set for 91 [2014/04/08 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: it seems everyone is seeing something differently [2014/04/08 11:25] Ai Austin: Robert, I see the mesh lizard avatar with feet exactly on the terrain at 50 now (was 42) but when I walk it jumps up 20cm until I stop walking [2014/04/08 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: thats not good [2014/04/08 11:26] Lani Global: i'm at 50. [2014/04/08 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i see myself standing perfectly on a tapered cube [2014/04/08 11:26] Ai Austin: but on a prinm surface it sinks up to its ankles [2014/04/08 11:26] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Richardus, 1.8m is considered above average on some continents. [2014/04/08 11:26] Lani Global: yes, i see you at proper level on the prim neb [2014/04/08 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: not good that everyone seems to be seeing something different for me [2014/04/08 11:26]  Lani Global: i'm in system shoe now, no prim [2014/04/08 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I see him hovering above [2014/04/08 11:26] Ken Savage: Its been different for a while and I compensated by adjusting the AV height settings in [Bulletsim] but I recently removed those for testing the default values [2014/04/08 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: well. this one is 1.64 in the viewer appreance. so not sure about the reliabilty of the height meter [2014/04/08 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: my other one is a tad smaller and say 1.84 [2014/04/08 11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: I've had my doubts about it. [2014/04/08 11:27] dan banner: my feet look correct to me [2014/04/08 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: me too dan [2014/04/08 11:27] Lani Global: i see you standing on the prim dan, looks ok, but when you first got on it, you were sinking a little [2014/04/08 11:27] dan banner: standing on the prim [2014/04/08 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: but watch when i move over to that cube [2014/04/08 11:28] Sarah Kline: you feet look ok dan [2014/04/08 11:28] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: all we need now is someone to hand out the medals [2014/04/08 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: lagging bad [2014/04/08 11:28] dan banner: it worse in lbsa [2014/04/08 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: horrible ping from Sweden [2014/04/08 11:28] dan banner: tell them you need bigger broadband [2014/04/08 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: man i have to say [2014/04/08 11:28] Robert Adams: this has been my problem... there are so may differences between viewers, AVs, AOs etc, it is really hard to come up with the right settings [2014/04/08 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: Sweden has the worst internet ever lol [2014/04/08 11:28] Lani Global: do they ping horribly there? [2014/04/08 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: ehst ping time ? well its good to see it once from the other seat of the ocean neb :) [2014/04/08 11:29] Richardus Raymaker: i have 133ms [2014/04/08 11:29]  dan banner: oh i though corpus cristi had bad internet [2014/04/08 11:29]  Lani Global: i have a server in sweden, it isn't bad [2014/04/08 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: but thats close to backbone [2014/04/08 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: look at my feet now [2014/04/08 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: to me my feet are almost entirely inside of the cube [2014/04/08 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: dan, neb marcus . all bad [2014/04/08 11:29]  Lani Global: i see your feet halfway sunk in that prim [2014/04/08 11:29]  Fearghus McMahon: well at least untill your shoelaces [2014/04/08 11:29]  Nebadon Izumi: ua [2014/04/08 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya* [2014/04/08 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: its like to my shoelaces [2014/04/08 11:30]  dan banner: i see my feet fine [2014/04/08 11:30]  Lani Global: yes that is how i see you neb [2014/04/08 11:30] Fearghus McMahon: and it depends on your ao pose too neb [2014/04/08 11:30] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon. how does it look without shoes ? [2014/04/08 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the same [2014/04/08 11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Seems large avatars have problems too. [2014/04/08 11:30] Sarah Kline: prims are to scale, so should our avatars be [2014/04/08 11:30]  Nebadon Izumi: shoes would be phantom [2014/04/08 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: shouldnt make an difference [2014/04/08 11:30] Richardus Raymaker: ya. [2014/04/08 11:30] Sarah Kline: realistic scale [2014/04/08 11:31] Sarah Kline: thats ha [2014/04/08 11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: well, wanted to rule the shoes out [2014/04/08 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: looks like we lost Robert [2014/04/08 11:31] Sarah Kline: how to look at it Robert [2014/04/08 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: oh he is back [2014/04/08 11:31] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: fainted [2014/04/08 11:31] Ai Austin: who is that big hairy guy :-) [2014/04/08 11:31]  Sarah Kline: Marcus your being scary lol [2014/04/08 11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: I'm Exploding! [2014/04/08 11:32]  Marcus Llewellyn: This is 4 meters tall. I can pull out the 50m one if you want scary. ;) [2014/04/08 11:32] Robert Adams: sorry about that... that DUI thing is not all there yet [2014/04/08 11:32] Nebadon Izumi: welcome back :) [2014/04/08 11:32]  Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, that is 4m tall? Looks short [2014/04/08 11:32]  dan banner: i think just getting normal avtars right is a good goal for the moment [2014/04/08 11:33]  Robert Adams: I see both of you just a little over the prims [2014/04/08 11:33]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: For who Dan? [2014/04/08 11:33]  dan banner: for starters billy [2014/04/08 11:33]  Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, I think you legs are attached to the wrong place. Your feet are sticking out from mid-leg. [2014/04/08 11:33]  Ken Savage: Wearing shoes with higher prim heals is much worse [2014/04/08 11:33]  Robert Adams: both Dan and Nebadon appear to be floating over the cube [2014/04/08 11:34]  Robert Adams: Marcus is sunk into the floor a little [2014/04/08 11:34]  dan banner: i see me near touching the prim [2014/04/08 11:34]  Ken Savage: Neb is inside the prim on my screen [2014/04/08 11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: Andrew: that's one large mesh, attached to the avatar center. [2014/04/08 11:34] Sarah Kline: neb floats dan ok on my screen [2014/04/08 11:34] Sarah Kline: FS [2014/04/08 11:34]  Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, ok. For some reason the portion of the mesh with the feet wasn't appearing in the right place. [2014/04/08 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: how odd each viewer sees different things [2014/04/08 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that is not good [2014/04/08 11:34] Sarah Kline: lol [2014/04/08 11:35] Lani Global: i took a photo of the avatar on prim and tapered prim here https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkuEd4vCQAAA9s0.png:large [2014/04/08 11:35] Richardus Raymaker: a little bit ? [2014/04/08 11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Different viewers include different sets of code fixes [2014/04/08 11:35] dan banner: ya it makes it a lot more difficult [2014/04/08 11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: In Kokua, I see both neb and dan slightly sunken into their prims. [2014/04/08 11:35] Ken Savage: Dan looks ok, but Nebs feet appear inside the prim. Different on different viewers for sure [2014/04/08 11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, that is the viewer I have here. [2014/04/08 11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Dan less than neb for me. [2014/04/08 11:35] Richardus Raymaker: i think around 0./2 in  the floor for marcus [2014/04/08 11:35] Sarah Kline: add that into the equation and Roberts job is pretty near impossible [2014/04/08 11:35] Lani Global: x ray view of the foreground prim in that foto [2014/04/08 11:36] Ken Savage: Im going to relog with sing and compared looks to fs on Neb's feet [2014/04/08 11:36] Richardus Raymaker: i mean 0.2 [2014/04/08 11:37] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Anyway the last update to BulletSim encapsulation seems to make things worst [2014/04/08 11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: Crap, my bones are messed up. lol [2014/04/08 11:38] Richardus Raymaker: did lift to much weight mar cus [2014/04/08 11:38] Ken Savage: Now with Sing, Nebs feet are way above the prim. [2014/04/08 11:38] dan banner files the edges of his avatar cube [2014/04/08 11:38] Ken Savage: FS and Sing are VERY different [2014/04/08 11:38] Richardus Raymaker: not on my singularity [2014/04/08 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: I really wouldnt say its worse, its just messed up in completely different way [2014/04/08 11:38] Richardus Raymaker: here its in the prim [2014/04/08 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its never actually worked properly [2014/04/08 11:38] Ai Austin: Can I raise an issue about autoreturn blocking a grid? [2014/04/08 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: reverting it just makes everyone hover off the ground [2014/04/08 11:39] Robert Adams: I've noticed that height will change as you walk around so height just logging in is different than height a little while later [2014/04/08 11:39] Ai Austin: I have seen this a few times. when parcel autoreturn kicks in across HG it can lock up completely [2014/04/08 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: well Robert on Terrain its perfect [2014/04/08 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: are you actually testing on prims [2014/04/08 11:39] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ODE has a similar effect on small avatars walking across undulating terrain [2014/04/08 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: on terrain it works almost perfectly [2014/04/08 11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Ai, is that only happening in an HG enabled region? [2014/04/08 11:40] dan banner: ai: stuff gets returned to HG avatars on our sandboxes all the time [2014/04/08 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: I think it's worth making a Manits about. Oren has been looking at HG issues recently and I suspect it's something he would like to know about [2014/04/08 11:40] Ai Austin: I had a griefer "Jack" a lot of us have seen... but autoreturn started returnign his objects and the grid simply ;ocked up with debug message sgenerating 700MB of OpenSim.log in 2 days [2014/04/08 11:40] Ai Austin: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7099 [2014/04/08 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like sheer volume of stuff [2014/04/08 11:40] Lani Global: here's a good feature: Auto-Delete for sandboxes. [2014/04/08 11:40] Lani Global: instead of Auto-Return [2014/04/08 11:41] Ai Austin: default loggig might itself be a part of teh problem. but I hav seen before whern I rezzed som complex item and autoreturn started to return it it took forever [2014/04/08 11:41] Richardus Raymaker: tytp andrew. not soudns good idea [2014/04/08 11:41] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Maybe Auto return is not a good idea for hg visitors [2014/04/08 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: ok thanks. It's something I may look at as well [2014/04/08 11:41] Lani Global: just delete the trash, instead of clogging up asset disks [2014/04/08 11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Lani, some people might get upset if they rezzed no copy items then got hit with auto delete. [2014/04/08 11:41] dan banner: ya most likely auto-return of 5000 spheres would even be rough locally [2014/04/08 11:41] Ai Austin: I wondered that myself Billy [2014/04/08 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: currently my time is being sapped by a few other things [2014/04/08 11:41] Robert Adams: Nebadon, you're saying that standing on terrain is correct for you? [2014/04/08 11:41] Ai Austin: and especially f its a griefer froma temporrary grid.. the system may be tryig forevere [2014/04/08 11:41] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: The HG sim could just disappear [2014/04/08 11:41] Richardus Raymaker: why you want to return something to other grid ? sounds indeed complex. reminds me a bit on hugh hroups. think its the saem effect. [2014/04/08 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I think Jack actually does us a favour by exposing weaknesses like this [2014/04/08 11:41] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: AI++ [2014/04/08 11:41] Robert Adams: Nebadon, does dropping a physical prim on the ground properly sit on the ground? [2014/04/08 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: it seemed to be Robert [2014/04/08 11:42] Ken Savage: Standing on terrain seems correct for me too, its only on prism where it seems strange [2014/04/08 11:42] Ai Austin: :-) Justin - but bno fun to restiore things. i have never managed to FIX a problem he causes. I just have to use a backup [2014/04/08 11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: not sure I havent tried that in a while i can go outside and try [2014/04/08 11:42]  Ken Savage: *prims [2014/04/08 11:42]  dan banner: lol jack the un-wary tester [2014/04/08 11:42]  Ai Austin: who IS that guy anyway... its a funny way to get your kicks [2014/04/08 11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I imagin eit's not fun cleaning up after him [2014/04/08 11:42]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon// what happen if you go stay on prim thats 0.250 heigh ? [2014/04/08 11:43]  Ai Austin: Grid he came from was http://37.187.41.69:9000 [2014/04/08 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: ai: ppl troll the internet all the time - doesn't really surprise me somebody would get fun out of doing this kind of thing [2014/04/08 11:43]  Nebadon Izumi shouts: my feet appear properly to me on the terrain [2014/04/08 11:43] Lani Global: it is easy to clean up, just restore from previous day [2014/04/08 11:43] Lani Global: but it is the loss of today's work [2014/04/08 11:43] Ken Savage: Im on terrain with high boot heals and it looks perfect to me. [2014/04/08 11:43] Ai Austin: that could be a LOT of lost work though Lani [2014/04/08 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: that assumes you're taking daily backups and don't mind other people losing quite a bit, potentially [2014/04/08 11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah [2014/04/08 11:43] Richardus Raymaker shouts: nebadon// what happen if you go stay on prim thats 0.250 heigh ? [2014/04/08 11:43] Ai Austin: in an educational environment its not good [2014/04/08 11:43] Ai Austin: espec with lightweight admin by individuals [2014/04/08 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: but then, arguably you shouldn't be allowing anyone to just build if you can avoid it [2014/04/08 11:44]  dan banner: +1 [2014/04/08 11:44] Lani Global: self-replicating physical prims often seep down into parcel or region boundaries, they have to be manually scraped out with a toothbrush and dental pick. [2014/04/08 11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Cool. Shouts show in bold text in this viewer. [2014/04/08 11:44] Robert Adams: but it's a sandbox [2014/04/08 11:44] Nebadon Izumi shouts: Physical prims look ok [2014/04/08 11:44]  Fearghus McMahon: you could even argue if an educational environment should be open for all [2014/04/08 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: for a sandbox, blasting away whatever is in there shou ldbe an option [2014/04/08 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: rather than manually cleaning up [2014/04/08 11:44]  Marcus Llewellyn: I see nebadon floating above the terrain. [2014/04/08 11:44] Ken Savage: Robert, bare feet on terrain seem ok too [2014/04/08 11:45] Fearghus McMahon: exterminate...... [2014/04/08 11:45] Ai Austin: We try to keep tyhings open and give people a few minuites build time - its a great pity to close thins up just because of this problem. but OpenSim seesm to cope badly and the normal SL mechanism to clear up don't work [2014/04/08 11:45] Lani Global: yes, i run a combat sandbox... i would love to be able to have some parcels with auto-delete for stray bullets and arrows. [2014/04/08 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, definitely room for improvement [2014/04/08 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: so ya bigger question [2014/04/08 11:45] Dev Random: per-person prim limits? [2014/04/08 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: why does each viewer see something differently [2014/04/08 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: that is really bad [2014/04/08 11:45] Ai Austin: watch out for unexploded ordanance Lani :-) [2014/04/08 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: dev: would be an interesting approach [2014/04/08 11:46]  dan banner: i wonder if they show differently in sl? [2014/04/08 11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, can you stay on 0.25 prim here [2014/04/08 11:46]  Lani Global: per-person prim limits would be a holy grail of region management [2014/04/08 11:46]  Ai Austin: I see neb about 15cxm off the cube and dan 10cm of fit [2014/04/08 11:46]  Ai Austin: I Firestorm 4.6.1 [2014/04/08 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: oh another thing [2014/04/08 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: chck this out Robert [2014/04/08 11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: you could do it per region easily enough. Per grid if you co-ordinated with a robust service that was keeping count [2014/04/08 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: you cant walk over stuff in reverse [2014/04/08 11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: even a 0.05 prim [2014/04/08 11:47] Robert Adams: humm... it does seem that the low terrain rendering problem might be a feature of Singularity.... that's what I usually test with [2014/04/08 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: i want to see if you sink less in les heigh prim [2014/04/08 11:47] Lani Global: is it directional neb? [2014/04/08 11:47]  Robert Adams: I guess I'll take both viewers to SL and see what I get [2014/04/08 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: yes prim stairs still problem [2014/04/08 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: depends still on direction [2014/04/08 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: look [2014/04/08 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: backwards [2014/04/08 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: you keep walking [2014/04/08 11:47] Lani Global: some east/west/north/south issues with jumping as well as going up over prims and land. [2014/04/08 11:48] Robert Adams: yes,,, walking up stufin reverse should never work... it only takes you up stairs forward [2014/04/08 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: im walking backwards richardus [2014/04/08 11:48] Lani Global: moonwalk! [2014/04/08 11:48] Richardus Raymaker: for me you stay still. [2014/04/08 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: thats bad though [2014/04/08 11:48] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [2014/04/08 11:48] Ken Savage: the direction of border crossings makes the crossing very different too [2014/04/08 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: even over 0.05 [2014/04/08 11:48] Sarah Kline: you should look where your going though [2014/04/08 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: it should work backwards [2014/04/08 11:48] Fearghus McMahon: so that means i can never bring a closet up the stairs together with a friend in vr? [2014/04/08 11:48] Robert Adams: the capsule shape might allow one to get over very low barriers, but in general, the stairs walking stuff only work in the direction where knees work [2014/04/08 11:49] Robert Adams: BulletSim has a avatar motor that pushes the avatar up if moving forward and hitting something low on the avatar [2014/04/08 11:49] dan banner: i'll have to try walking backwards in sl [2014/04/08 11:50]  Richardus Raymaker: in sl that works fine sofar i know [2014/04/08 11:50] Robert Adams: it doesn't push the avatar up for collisions high on the avatar or if the avatar is not walking toward the collision [2014/04/08 11:50] Ai Austin: Robert. maybe that is why the lizard mesh avatar jumps up 10cm when walking and then settles down when you start. But its acting when it should not? [2014/04/08 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: even slight variations in where 2 prims meet up prevents walking backwards [2014/04/08 11:50] Ken Savage: Try walking up stairs backwards in rl, its not easy there either lol [2014/04/08 11:50] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: In SL when walk backwards, you do not turn face, as with OS [2014/04/08 11:50]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm looks like you sink more with lower prim height ? [2014/04/08 11:51] Robert Adams: see http://opensimulator.org/wiki/BulletSim#Avatar_Walking_Up_Stairs [2014/04/08 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not doing it now [2014/04/08 11:51] dan banner: billy thats a viewer setting iirc [2014/04/08 11:51] Lani Global: photo of neb doing moonwalk https://twitter.com/LaniGlobal/status/453605902805782528/photo/1/large [2014/04/08 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: there [2014/04/08 11:51] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: oh [2014/04/08 11:52]  dan banner: billy: http://i.imgur.com/jyNG5GF.png [2014/04/08 11:52] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Dan kk [2014/04/08 11:53]  Sarah Kline: yes you can walk backwards over prims np in SL just tried it [2014/04/08 11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: oh wait lol, am in kokua [2014/04/08 11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: SL doesn't just use a capsule for avatar collision, does it? [2014/04/08 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it does [2014/04/08 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but its shaped liek a diamond [2014/04/08 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: and I dont think there is any tilt [2014/04/08 11:54] dan banner: small lips or edges going at 45 Â° also cause issues [2014/04/08 11:54] Robert Adams: Sarah.. steps of any height or roughly the same rules as walking forward? [2014/04/08 11:54] Sarah Kline: same as we are using here now [2014/04/08 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the tilt is naturally built into the shape of the capsule itself in all directions [2014/04/08 11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: What's our's shaped like? Box? Ovoid? [2014/04/08 11:54] Sarah Kline: just prim not tried with stairs lol [2014/04/08 11:55] dan banner: was like a tylenol marcus [2014/04/08 11:55] Sarah Kline: see i can rezz some [2014/04/08 11:55] dan banner: or vitamin E [2014/04/08 11:55]  Robert Adams: ours is now a simple rectangular cube... wider than deep [2014/04/08 11:55] Robert Adams: that's what BulletSim defaults to after recent commits [2014/04/08 11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear, honest! But why aren't we using a capsule like LL's? [2014/04/08 11:56] vegaslon plutonian: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/File:Avmeshforms.png this is what the avatar shape is in secondlife [2014/04/08 11:56] Robert Adams: BulletSim used to default to a capsule shape but that is very hard to compute the real height [2014/04/08 11:56] Lani Global: does this have anything to do with the "compass direction" of ability to jump? [2014/04/08 11:57] Robert Adams: there is a diamond mesh shape in the works (see BSShapes.cs under AvatarShape) but it is not debugged or fully implemented [2014/04/08 11:57] Lani Global: some directions you can jump over things. some not. [2014/04/08 11:57] Lani Global: up+ forward. [2014/04/08 11:57] Robert Adams: SL also has a separate sitting diamond shape for avatars [2014/04/08 11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: So we don't (yet) because we can't (yet). :) [2014/04/08 11:57] Sarah Kline: yes can do it with stairs too [2014/04/08 11:58]  Dahlia Trimble: sitting? thats non-physical in SL [2014/04/08 11:58]  Robert Adams: you'll get vehicle border crossing before you get avatar meshes :) [2014/04/08 11:58] dan banner: i think there was a fix for jumping while walking recently [2014/04/08 11:58] Lani Global: yeah! vehicle border crossings! [2014/04/08 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: is there any way we can start testing the experimental capsule [2014/04/08 11:59] Nebadon Izumi: id like to shoot a monkey into space in new capsule lol [2014/04/08 11:59] Lani Global: i'd settle for a dog. [2014/04/08 11:59] Nebadon Izumi: for all we know it works perfectly [2014/04/08 11:59] dan banner: ya i wouldnt mind trying it [2014/04/08 12:00]  Marcus Llewellyn: Could be exciting. >:) [2014/04/08 12:00] Lani Global: we shoot all kinds of things into space in our regions. [2014/04/08 12:00]  Ferd Frederix: Raises hand and asks if anyone else has issues with NPC's not working. [2014/04/08 12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: you know what you shoot up is comneing down. sooner or later. [2014/04/08 12:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: fred: not working in what way? [2014/04/08 12:01]  Lani Global: NPCs working fine. [2014/04/08 12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: Ferd, did you enabled it in opensim.ini ? [2014/04/08 12:01]  Ferd Frederix: Not rezzing in latest version outside the 256 meter base in a mega [2014/04/08 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: there is an issue with multi-attachments not working with NPCs that I need to look at [2014/04/08 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: okay, megaregions immediately throws in a curve ball :) [2014/04/08 12:01] Ferd Frederix: Also, cannot set perms lower than severe by group or region names [2014/04/08 12:01] Lani Global: but, some versions of opensim may be a little more fragile with npcs [2014/04/08 12:01] Richardus Raymaker: aha, mega. workking with var. or at least have one running. going to build on it. [2014/04/08 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ferd: in a megaregion? [2014/04/08 12:02] Ferd Frederix: Mega, yes, only works in root region [2014/04/08 12:02] Dahlia Trimble: why would they not work in megas? [2014/04/08 12:02] Ferd Frederix: also cannot move across boundary [2014/04/08 12:02] Richardus Raymaker: wich opensim version fred ? [2014/04/08 12:02] Richardus Raymaker: oops ferd [2014/04/08 12:02] Lani Global: npcs are not region crossing. [2014/04/08 12:02] Sarah Kline: I think they used to [2014/04/08 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: they certainly won't cross ordinary regions [2014/04/08 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know if they used to work in a megaregion or not [2014/04/08 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I can imagine that might go either way [2014/04/08 12:02] Lani Global: npcs are within region [2014/04/08 12:03] Dahlia Trimble: megas are just a big region [2014/04/08 12:03] Ferd Frederix: 0.8.0 04-03-2014 aec723b - not to tie up the meeting, Its been reported in Mantis, just wanted to see if anyone else had issues [2014/04/08 12:03] dan banner: ferd: you can use "Allow_osWhatever = PARCEL_GROUP_MEMBER [2014/04/08 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: fred: what is the mantis number? [2014/04/08 12:03]  Ferd Frederix: sorry Dan, cannot [2014/04/08 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: ferd [2014/04/08 12:04]  Lani Global: osNPC as it is currently implemented only is intended to work within a single region, rather than be able to roam the grid. [2014/04/08 12:04]  Ferd Frederix: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7051 [2014/04/08 12:04]  Lani Global: imagine what it would be like with zombie NPCs on the loose! [2014/04/08 12:04]  dan banner: PARCEL_GROUP_MEMBER doesnt work in deeded or group owned parcels? [2014/04/08 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: megas aren't just a big region underneath thought -they're a messy hack of smaller regions glued together [2014/04/08 12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: so you get all kinds of issues [2014/04/08 12:04] Ferd Frederix: NPC's throw a security error on that. Have to use avatar UUID, at least, I do. [2014/04/08 12:05] Dahlia Trimble: I've had them cross to other regions but using a special module for it [2014/04/08 12:05]  Richardus Raymaker: just a small thing. load iar dont have the right missing file interception. so opensim spew the console with more errors lines then needed [2014/04/08 12:05] Richardus Raymaker: if the file cant be found [2014/04/08 12:05] Lani Global: remind me not to run that special module. [2014/04/08 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: ferd: so is this a new issue or did it previously work? [2014/04/08 12:05] Dahlia Trimble: Lani, I havent published them :P [2014/04/08 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: er, I mean, is this a new issue or has is never worked? [2014/04/08 12:06] Lani Global: thank goddess, Dahlia. [2014/04/08 12:06] Richardus Raymaker: Lani, we call yopu if the zombie's are lose [2014/04/08 12:06] Ferd Frederix: Worked in version from back in 12-2013, just now trying 03-28-2014 to see when it broke [2014/04/08 12:06] Lani Global: I had a zombie invasion the other day, we had to call in the flame throwers. [2014/04/08 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ferd: ok thanks. pinpointing when it broke would be very useful [2014/04/08 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I need to go. Thanks for the meeting, folks [2014/04/08 12:07] dan banner: okay justin [2014/04/08 12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya jcc [2014/04/08 12:07] Sarah Kline: bye Justin [2014/04/08 12:07] Lani Global: bye [2014/04/08 12:07] Dahlia Trimble: bye [2014/04/08 12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [2014/04/08 12:07] Ferd Frederix: I;ve had NPC's on a 9 region mega from 0.7.6 and at least one 0.8.0 dev. I'll add more details to mantis [2014/04/08 12:07] Ai Austin: Bye Justin [2014/04/08 12:07] Ferd Frederix: TY Justin.