Chat log from the meeting on 2011-08-09

[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: sim crashed? [10:30] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [10:30] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [10:30] Andrew Hellershanks: dunno. I got logged out. If it was sim crash I woulnd't have been able to get back here so quickly [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: true. but where is everyone [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ? [10:31] Andrew Hellershanks shurgs [10:31] Andrew Hellershanks: strange. [10:31] Void Pipe: did it crash [10:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Sim no longer crashes during meetings any more... we just get logged out now and then? hehe [10:31] Nebadon Izumi is Online [10:32] Void Pipe: well wright is a rather laggy sim for these meetings [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: booo [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: well,that was wierd [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: sim crashed [10:32] Andrew Hellershanks: It came back online awfully fast. [10:32] Infinity Riddler: oh [10:32]  Justin Clark-Casey: another one of those http failures [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: certainly started back up again quickly [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:32]  Void Pipe: shouldnt they be held on a more "virgin" sim? [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: it only takes about 2 minutes to start now [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: which is nice [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: makes the crashes almost bearable [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if neighbours were the chief cause of these problems [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:33] Dahlia Trimble is Offline [10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Normaly have to wait a while before it comes online. I didn't wait anywhere near a minute before I could get back in [10:33] Richardus Raymaker: why so fast now ? [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: cause it no longer recompiles scripts [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: its a new option [10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: nice [10:33] Sarah Kline: oh good [10:34] Selea Core: hi everyone :) [10:34]  Dahlia Trimble: hi again :) [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: hello selea [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: sorry about the crash folks [10:34] Void Pipe: Hi Selea [10:34] Andrew Hellershanks: You taking the blame for that one, Nebadon? :-) [10:34] Sarah Kline: i ended up at ziaus as default region [10:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: the damn http server again [10:34]  Dahlia Trimble: now nebadon gets to fix crashes :) [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: ah might have relogged to fast [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: there's some issue that it doesn't deal with properly [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: heh [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: we should probably see what diva thinks [10:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, any hints in the log files about that? [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: she might know better what that message means [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: no, just a short and uninformative stack trace [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunatley, diva is busy on conference work right now [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: eep [10:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, what message? [10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: she's general chair of a big one [10:35] Aaron Duffy is Online [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com/19pY7EPE [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ok well when we can i suppose [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: really though we need to think about the best way to fix the buggy and not maintained http server [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: heh [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: its probably the source of many issues [10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: probably [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: some opensim windows server user here btw ? how's memory use under windows this days with opensim ? [10:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, ok. At least it reports a file and line number [10:37] Selea Core: bye bye everyone ... my sim is up ... take care all :) [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: see ya [10:37]  Sarah Kline: bye [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: Richardus its probably about the same as Linux [10:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's within mono though, which is incredibly unhelpful [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: the downside of running in Windows is the 32 bit limt [10:37]  Richardus Raymaker: you neve ruse mono under windows [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: its much much lower than Linux 64 or even Linux 32 [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: Linux 32 craps out around 4gb [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: windows craps out around 2gb [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: unless you do a hack [10:38]  Nebadon Izumi: that gets you to 3gb [10:38]  Richardus Raymaker: i know. but never seen 1 region go up so far [10:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: whatever is calling BeginRead is supplying a bad offset [10:38]  Justin Clark-Casey: and we don't get informatio nabout the caller [10:38]  Richardus Raymaker: oh well. i just go try and see how it runs at home. just some torture. not sure for who btw.. :) [10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: well ok, we know that HttpClientContext.OnReceive is doing the calling, but that has no line number [10:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: and that's certainly with the HttpServer [10:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: within [10:39]  Andrew Hellershanks: Not that I'm looking for yet another item for my ToDo list, I've been thinking about implementation of sound queueing [10:39]  Dahlia Trimble: http://dahliaisland.wwweb3d.net:8099/screenshots/radegastWP.JPG [10:39]  Andrew Hellershanks: Is anyone already working on that? [10:39]  Richardus Raymaker: ohh. that would be very nice andrew really a missing function [10:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: not actively [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: nice Dahlia [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: im very impressed with Radegast 3D scene viewer [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: especially how fast its progressing [10:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: why is the butterfly upside down? [10:40] Dahlia Trimble: ya coming along nicely [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: and the other screens :) [10:40]  Dahlia Trimble: dunno [10:40]  Sarah Kline: strange necks on people lol [10:40]  Richardus Raymaker: lol. thats a good poicture. i could not find the difference [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: heh we should show that to lkalif [10:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: Need to add a variable to a scripts state to track queueing flag. In the sound playing routines, pass a list instead of just a single name/UUID [10:41]  Sarah Kline: bodys distorted [10:41]  Aaron Duffy: screens are right-side-up here [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya Avatars are really new addition [10:41]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm radagast 3d ? [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: its suprising they look as good as they do [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: Radegast Nightly has an experimental 3D scene viewer [10:41]  Andrew Hellershanks: The way looping of sound is handled should provide an indication on how to switch to the next sound in the list. [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: you can move and interact [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: its quite advanced [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: at this point i would have to say its the most advanced non LL code base viewer [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: its quite impressive [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: it even supports ability to sit and interact with prims [10:42] Richardus Raymaker: maby radagast is a base for opensim viewer someday ? [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: prim animation [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: texture animation [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: maybe [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i think it has a ways to go [10:43]  Nebadon Izumi: it of course has no build tools etc.. [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: its just a viewer [10:43] Richardus Raymaker: for now.... [10:43] Richardus Raymaker: we all know how opensim started [10:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, does that mean we could look at Radegeast viewer code (if we wanted to) without being stopped from contributing to OS for 6 months? [10:43] Sarah Kline: sit there and build on your iphone [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: feel free to [10:44]  Nebadon Izumi: i am quite sure Lkalif would love help [10:44] Richardus Raymaker: iphone. noo just desktop [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: if your interested in getting involved with radegast just give him a shout [10:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Just a general question as I have too many things on my plate [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: he is usally around on #opensim-dev [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: ya i can certainly understand that [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: you should atleast give it a try [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty cool [10:45] Andrew Hellershanks: I already have 4 or 5 viewers on my system [10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: 2 or 3 LL ones, Hippo, and Imprudence 1.4 [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: only 4 or 5? [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: hhehe [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: i have like 20 viewers [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: yikes [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: i have like atleast 10 variations of LL viewers [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I just have ones I might actually use. [10:47] BlueWall Slade: I just found out that my avatar on my local gris was still going - even after I had logged in with V2 and HG here. [10:47] Dahlia Trimble: lets see... I have pyov, naali, idealist, rei, my unity viewer, the rezzable viewer, and now radegast, in addition to a *lot* of LL based viewers [10:48] BlueWall Slade: so, I logged in again and it still didn't kill me until I TP to the place my avatar (in Imp) was [10:48] BlueWall Slade: pyov ? [10:48] Dahlia Trimble: oh and my panda viewer too [10:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Its getting hard to keep track of how many viewers are out there now [10:48] Dahlia Trimble: pyov was an early viewer written in python that used ogre [10:48] Dahlia Trimble: it was previously called "openviewer" [10:48] BlueWall Slade: did it work? [10:48] Dahlia Trimble: way back when [10:49] Dahlia Trimble: ya kinda [10:49] BlueWall Slade: what is panda? [10:49] Dahlia Trimble: you could teleport between grids with it [10:49]  BlueWall Slade: cool [10:49] Dahlia Trimble: I wrote a scene viewer with panda3d [10:49] Dahlia Trimble: lemme find link [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: btw too [10:50] Void Pipe: so if viewers with multiple attachments points gives this inconsistant attachment errors... is there any work on the server side to fix that? [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: Radegast scene viewer can render Mesh prims also [10:50] Dahlia Trimble: http://vimeo.com/6812213 [10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: are multiple attachment points something supported natively by the linden grid software? [10:50] Nebadon Izumi: good question, i think so with V2 Justin [10:51] Sarah Kline: yep [10:51] Dahlia Trimble: I think so, just additional attachments [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: ive never used it, not even sure how it works [10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: so this simply means attaching multiple objects to the same point? [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i assume its 2 levels only? [10:51] Void Pipe: otherwise it will be hard to get firestorm, kirsten and Siongularity to work [10:51] Void Pipe: and they are the mesh ones in short view [10:52] BlueWall Slade: nice Dahlia [10:52] Void Pipe: no singlarity are snowglobe based [10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: does the linden viewer 2 support that? [10:52] Void Pipe: but implements some v2 features [10:52] Nebadon Izumi: i beleive so Justin [10:52] Infinity Riddler: are you going to support viewer 2 or at least media on prim... not based on land meia [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: we already do Infinity [10:53] BlueWall Slade: the upcoming contribution agreement will only allow us to work with V2 code, right? [10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: no, you can work with anything you like [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: Media on a prim works just fine here [10:53] Richardus Raymaker: MOAP already works in imprudence. [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: it works on any V2 viewer [10:53] Infinity Riddler: well i tried on a prim but didn't see the option as we see it in v2 [10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: ya its not exactly the same as LL [10:53]  Richardus Raymaker: Bluewall ? you mean Lindens are pushing devs to V2 ? [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: but for the most part it works [10:54] Infinity Riddler: so can i out different web page on different surface of the same prim [10:54] Infinity Riddler: put* [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: should be able to yes [10:54] BlueWall Slade: LL wants to push V2, but that isn't what I was talking about [10:54] BlueWall Slade: the V2 is LGPL licensed [10:54] BlueWall Slade: others ar just GPL [10:54] Richardus Raymaker: aha you mean license V2 [10:54]  Nebadon Izumi: yes, but alot of the code is the same [10:55] BlueWall Slade: V2 probably is good enough [10:55] Void Pipe: snowglobe 1.5 is there [10:55] Sarah Kline: Actually they are close on to 3.0 now ) [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ya they are up to 2.8.4 now [10:56]  Infinity Riddler: i like the side bar a lot initially it feels clumsy but after some time ... the interface seems to be much better than v1 [10:56]  Nebadon Izumi: i doubt they are rushing into 3.0 tag though [10:56]  Nebadon Izumi: i doubt we'll see 3.0 until well after mesh is fully implemented [10:56]  BlueWall Slade: I like using gvim for an LSL editor!!! [10:57]  Richardus Raymaker: Really the sidebar is contra productief. and slow things terrible in speed. besides you cannot open more things at same time [10:57]  Richardus Raymaker: vim is good [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: you can Richardus [10:57]  Richardus Raymaker: yes deteach [10:57]  Nebadon Izumi: but sometimes there are a few more steps [10:57]  Void Pipe: NEW August 5th! - Project Viewer - Mesh Project Viewer The mesh project viewer has been updated and is now considered to be a Release Candidate! With this version, you will be able to see and upload meshes in mesh-enabled regions on both the Aditi Test Grid and the Main Grid, Agni. As befitting a Release Candidate, the default grid for this viewer is Agni; if you wish to continue using mesh on Aditi, please remember that you will need to specify Aditi explicitly. The number of mesh-enabled regions on the main grid is currently limited, but over the next few weeks we will be enabling mesh support across increasing portions of Agni. For instructions on getting started with Mesh, FAQs, and relevant articles, see Mesh. [10:57] Richardus Raymaker: yes. and thats the bad thing. more steps. things must made to do it in less stepsnot more [10:57] BlueWall Slade: if the dialogs could go outside the main window it would be really good [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya like Gimp? [10:58] Andrew Hellershanks: hmm... I think I can just use a bit in SoundFlags for queueing [10:58] BlueWall Slade: yes [10:59] BlueWall Slade: the only thing about V2 is a cluttered workspace when building and interacting with inventory, etc. [10:59]  Nebadon Izumi: Singularity is bringing Mesh support to 1.5 level viewers [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: we should be seeing that relatively soon [10:59] Sarah Kline: that would be wonderful [10:59] Void Pipe: yes thats great.. but as the have multiple attachments point it is harde to use on OSG [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: well we can eventually get that right Void [10:59] Richardus Raymaker: building in V2. eep. no most v2 viewer are bad with gui [10:59] Void Pipe: that would be great [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: honeslty there has been very little noise about multiple attach points [11:00] BlueWall Slade: Dahlia, will you work with LL viewers when the new contributors agreement is done? [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: so it remains low priority [11:00] Dahlia Trimble: gotta run, bye people :) [11:00]  Void Pipe: it is written in the forums [11:00]  BlueWall Slade: bye bye [11:00]  Sarah Kline: bye Dahlia [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya Dahlia [11:00]  Void Pipe: by a few people and a lot on the viewrer forums [11:00]  Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: well honestly Void [11:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: Having windows outside GIMP is something a lot of people (Windows users?) don't seem to like [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: the forums is the wrong place to complain about it [11:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: outside main windo that is. [11:00]  Void Pipe: well they are not complaining [11:00]  Void Pipe: just asking [11:00]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:01]  Void Pipe: they are not developers [11:01]  Nebadon Izumi: i just mean its sorta the wrong place to get it resolved [11:01]  Void Pipe: yes i agree [11:01]  Void Pipe: i just mean that it is a problem for people [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:01]  BlueWall Slade: is that in V2 ? [11:01] Void Pipe: and they dont know where [11:01] Void Pipe: and singularity [11:01] Void Pipe: firestorm [11:01] Void Pipe: kirsten [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya its something we'll have to look in to [11:02]  BlueWall Slade: I'm not sure where we are on that [11:02] BlueWall Slade: I seem to remember somehting about it in the past [11:02] Void Pipe: singularity states that they are aiming at opensim [11:02] BlueWall Slade: but we send the data to the next region in a different way now [11:02] Void Pipe: so it would be bad if they got troubbles [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya we can speak to SianaGearz [11:02] BlueWall Slade: well, they shoudl talk to us??? [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: and see what she thinks about it [11:03]  Void Pipe: they have some background attachment fetching [11:03] Void Pipe: great [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: Firestorm is a different issue [11:03] Void Pipe: yes [11:03] BlueWall Slade: they are SpotOn ? [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: i am not sure abuut newer versions of Firestorm [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: but older versions had their own attachment code [11:03] Void Pipe: i have tried the last ones [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: before LL supported it [11:03]  Void Pipe: yesterday [11:03] Sarah Kline: there are only two versions [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: i dont know if they ditched that for the LL methods or not [11:04] Sarah Kline: the latest also suffered [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and no Firestorm is not related to Spoton3d [11:04] BlueWall Slade: ok, cool [11:04] Sarah Kline: yes they use the LL method now [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: Firestorm is the ex-Emerald team [11:04] Void Pipe: more or less [11:04] BlueWall Slade: I thought it was aPhoenix brand [11:04] Sarah Kline: ex Pheonix team [11:04] Sarah Kline: lol [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:04] BlueWall Slade: ahhh, ok [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: Firestorm is the new Phoenix [11:04] Sarah Kline: lol forgive them [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its the oppose of Snowstorm [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: the LL team [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:04] BlueWall Slade: haa [11:05] BlueWall Slade: land of Oz [11:05]  Void Pipe: Kirstens is even smoother though [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but they do some pretty drastic stuff [11:05] Void Pipe: S21 [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: and seem to have little interest in supporting opensim [11:05] Void Pipe: there is a debate on their forums [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: so its kind of hard to know what they are doing there [11:05] Void Pipe: and they say they will [11:06] Sarah Kline: I was told as soon as they get mesh on, they will turn their attentions to putting in the grid box [11:06] Void Pipe: when mesh is settled [11:06] Sarah Kline: etc [11:06] Void Pipe: exactly [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: thats good [11:06] Void Pipe: but it is useful already except for HG and the attchemnet problems [11:06] BlueWall Slade: we should ahve a better way to work with viewer devs soon [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:07]  BlueWall Slade: hg should work on anything [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: ok. I need to go. See you later, folks [11:07] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: later Justin, thanks for coming [11:07] Sarah Kline: bye Justin ) [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: see you on IRC [11:07]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [11:07]  Void Pipe: bye [11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey waves