Chat log from the meeting on 2010-04-13

[10:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:03] Connected

[10:03] WhiteStar Magic: Imprudence is working on a fix for that with openJPG

[10:03] Repudiator quann is Online

[10:03] Justin Clark-Casey: oh wow, I see that's in stock 1.23 too

[10:03] Adelle Fitzgerald: gotcha

[10:03] Simpy Merryman: Thnak you Adelle :)

[10:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi WS

[10:04] WhiteStar Magic: Been there since 1.22

[10:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: i think that feature has been in viewers for a while now, Justin

[10:04] Justin Clark-Casey: brb, seems to be some chat lag

[10:04] Simpy Merryman: wonder if it works in coolsl

[10:04] Richardus Raymaker: without llKDU imprudence crash hard and quick on palza here

[10:04] WhiteStar Magic: Tis whaty I am sing

[10:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: wb Neb

[10:04] WhiteStar Magic: using

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: thanks, ya still rezzing in, but it seems to be working

[10:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: cool

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say if its actuall any faster under this level of load

[10:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: once stuff is cached in the viewer, textures are really fast to rez

[10:04] Simpy Merryman: brb switching to cool :)

[10:05] Simpy Merryman is Offline

[10:05] WhiteStar Magic: Adelle have you noticed teh diff on teh region ?

[10:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah

[10:05] Adelle Fitzgerald: diff stuff?

[10:05] WhiteStar Magic: I was watching teh RAM diffs and it does make a big diff there too

[10:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi ruben

[10:05] Adelle Fitzgerald: umm, diff?

[10:05] WhiteStar Magic: difference

[10:05] Simpy Merryman is Online

[10:05] Ruben Haan: hi

[10:05] Key Gruin is Offline

[10:06] Adelle Fitzgerald: hrm, no i havent noticed anything really, except faster loading

[10:06] Adelle Fitzgerald: wb justin

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: this region seems to be doing pretty good

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: Sandbox plaza was freaking out

[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hey there

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: i just restarted it

[10:06] WhiteStar Magic: The intial HIT is lower with an arriving avie, I assume cause it does not have to do all that lifting

[10:06] Simpy Merryman is Offline

[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: not noticing much difference in texture loading so far, but maybe that's just me :)

[10:06] Adelle Fitzgerald: have 4 days uptime so far on SeaPrior since updating to post-fixes :)

[10:06] Fu Barr: hey all - having some issues with sitting down - so i'll stand :)

[10:07] Simpy Merryman is Online

[10:07] Adelle Fitzgerald: thats awesome for that region

[10:07] WhiteStar Magic: I had teh Task Manager logging the differences, it's noticeble

[10:07] Fu Barr: ah - viewer just caught up

[10:07] Richardus Raymaker: i dont see ram diff with new pre. maby it use more memory

[10:07] Adelle Fitzgerald: gotcha, WS

[10:07] Penny Lane: Hiya JCC

[10:07] WhiteStar Magic: no decoding etc...

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: nice adelle thats great for SeaPrior

[10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hey penny

[10:08] Dahlia Trimble is Online

[10:08] WhiteStar Magic: me Waves at Penny

[10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: stats still showing 'texture' packets so maybe it's not enabled for me

[10:08] WhiteStar Magic: WB Simpy, glad ya made it

[10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll have to play around sometime - but good to know that it's already in stock viewers - thanks adelle

[10:08] Adelle Fitzgerald: yw :)

[10:08] Tesira Luco is Offline

[10:08] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)

[10:08] Penny Lane: Hiya Dahlia :-)

[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ih dahlia

[10:09] Simpy Merryman: thanks, actually woke up in time :)

[10:09] Adelle Fitzgerald: hi Dahlia

[10:09] Dobrin Tasev: hi all

[10:09] Adelle Fitzgerald: hello

[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dobrin

[10:09] Simpy Merryman: Hey Dobrin

[10:09] Dahlia Trimble: ooooo laggy

[10:10] WhiteStar Magic: lota logins

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: i used old opensim.ini with new pre. its to much work to remake 4 new ones :O

[10:10] Simpy Merryman: nearly up to 35,000 prims on the mega now WhiteStar

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: with till bump before i do that

[10:10] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (RC1) 54cedfe: 2010-04-08 15:57:57 -0700 (Unix/Mono)

[10:10] Adelle Fitzgerald: this region is using a lot of ram, i suspect it may blow soon

[10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so you updated the osgrid distro to use the latest 0.6.9-post fixes?

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes I have

[10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: how is it looking?

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: its been running quite well

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: great so far

[10:11] WhiteStar Magic: this is not latest here is it ?

[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: cool. I'm thinking about pushing 0.6.9 without fixing sqlite for now. I actually have code that makes it work with mono 2.6 but that then breaks mono 2.4 which is a realy pita

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya that sucks

[10:12] Adelle Fitzgerald: WS, this is a few days old, from the 8th

[10:12] WhiteStar Magic: Ahh it is... marvy

[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: push 0.6.9 then immediately fix for the master line and give it time to test out

[10:12] Adelle Fitzgerald: it is post-fixes tho

[10:12] WhiteStar Magic: LBSA was very well behaved for the whole morning

[10:12] Dahlia Trimble: I thought sqlite was fixed?

[10:12] Dahlia Trimble: except on newer mono

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: Great whitestar, i recently updated to mono 2.6.3 on all the Linux machines

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: it was always working on older mono :)

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: the plaza boxes that is

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: but newer mono is getting newer...

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: er, older

[10:13] Adelle Fitzgerald: from what i ahve seen, it looks like some extra stability has been gained in the post-fixes branch, even if just subtle

[10:13] Dahlia Trimble: theres other problems in newer mono

[10:13] WhiteStar Magic: it's working nice, except for multiple concurrent logins and 2 griefers

[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: JCC 2.6 anyway much better then 2.4

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: adelle: yeah, a lot of good fixes have accumulated since 0.6.8

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: oh?

[10:13] Dahlia Trimble: try loading an oar on debian with 2.6+

[10:14] WhiteStar Magic: was there 5 hrs and all good, lots of traffic and poeple, averAGING 15 AVIES AT ANY TIME

[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: how's mono 2.6.3 ?

[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: oh man... what happens?

[10:14] Dahlia Trimble: cant remember exactly, some compression library mismatch

[10:14] Simpy Merryman: is the code thats running on available WhiteStar?

[10:14] Fu Barr: rich: i;m running it on my reginos - seems vey good. but the load is v light

[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that's generally a problem because the mono 2.6 package doesn't specific the correct compression library

[10:14] WhiteStar Magic: I have not pushed out a distro

[10:15] WhiteStar Magic: but yes, it is avaial

[10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: I believe it's fixable if the compression library is also updated manually

[10:15] Dahlia Trimble: tried that, didnt work

[10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: or I think it can use one bundled with it if you change ./configure correctly

[10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, that's disappointing

[10:15] Simpy Merryman: just need the source, gots to make a change in it first :P

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: so far Richardus mono 2.6.3 seems to run well

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: infact

[10:15] Dahlia Trimble: ya I was going to ask the mono debian people but they werent on irc then I forgot

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: Vivox seemed to have a bug on Mono 2.6.1 on both our 64 and 32 bit boxes

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: it would create some kind of decimal error with mono

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: but it went away in 2.6.3

[10:16] Justin Clark-Casey: sometimes I wish we'd written all this in java ;)

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:16] Dahlia Trimble: lol

[10:16] Richardus Raymaker: hehe

[10:17] Penny Lane:

[10:17] Penny Lane: :P

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: but also if your going to use mono 2.6.3 with 0.6.9-post-fixes branch

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: be sure you erase the Mono.Security.dll from /bin

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: or it wont start

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: /bin in OpenSimulator that

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: that is*

[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: woo

[10:18] Dahlia Trimble: someone was telling me they compiled mono on a 32 bit machine and copied the installation to a 64 bit

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: mono 2.6.3 has its own Mono.Security.dll now

[10:18] Penny Lane: It's not really a language problem. Has to be said though that Novell sure do make bloaty code.

[10:18] Dahlia Trimble: and then everything runs 32 bit

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia you can do that probably

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: if you have all the 32 bit kernel modules

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: it will run i would think

[10:19] Richardus Raymaker: aha

[10:19] Richardus Raymaker: why does that dll give some error ?

[10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: you know, I just grpped the code and only one shell script in an obscure tools directory refers to Mono.Security.dll

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: because its included in mono 2.6.3 now

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: and the version we include in opensim is no longer compatible

[10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: we might just be able to remove it entirely anyway if it's unused

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: 2.6.3 will use its own

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: it is in the Main tree

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: just not in post-fixes

[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmm

[10:20] Penny Lane: My take on it is "10 megabytes may be a lot for Hello World, but memory sizes will be much greater in the future" :-)

[10:20] Richardus Raymaker: can we not git rid of the opensim version ?

[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, perhaps it's used by another library then

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: you can safely remove it

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: this region is currently runnig that way

[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: it might not even be used by OpenSim anyway.....

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: my update script automaticlly removed that dll from the OSgrid plaza builds

[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: unless you're saying that things break if you remove it from 0.6.9-post-fxies

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: it only breaks if your running mono 2.6.3

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: 2.6.1 is fine

[10:21] Dahlia Trimble: well Im using mono 2.4.2.3 for all my regions

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya it wont matter then

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: you can safely leave the file

[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: naybe I'll just try removing it from master and see if that causes any issues

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: i think its already gone from Git master

[10:21] Richardus Raymaker: i mean mabyits safer to have it not in opensim

[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: oh ok

[10:22] WhiteStar Magic: Good Afternoon Jim

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: just not post-fixes branch is all

[10:22] Richardus Raymaker: ok good

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: for those running on OSgrid

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: stats are looking pretty good here

[10:22] Dahlia Trimble: whats the recommended version for osgrid?

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: Top is a bit bloated out

[10:23] Dahlia Trimble: for opensim?

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: but opensim console shows about 1000mb

[10:23] WhiteStar Magic: misbehaving Sandbox ?

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: I usually recommend using whatever your OS defaults too

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: but if thats too old then id recommend using mono 2.6.3 myself

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: its been great on all my boxes

[10:23] Dahlia Trimble: cant load oars with 2.6.3

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: i can

[10:24] Dahlia Trimble: I cant :(

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: odd

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: ill test again to be sure

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: its been a few days since i did an oar

[10:24] Fu Barr: i second that. 2.6.3 has been mush better for me on my private grids... just little niggle dy thing s and it just 'feels' better...

[10:24] Richardus Raymaker: is save iar fixed in pre. not tried it.

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: ive not had any issues with IAR or OAR on OSgrid with 2.6.3 so far

[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: it was never broken in pre

[10:24] Dahlia Trimble: I meant which is the most recent OpenSim to use on osgird? I havent updated since before the presence refactor merge

[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: er, post-fixes?

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: but i'll give it another go just to be sure

[10:25] Richardus Raymaker: it never worked in official latest osgrid versions under linux

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: Best bet is use the current OSgrid release versions

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: or post-fixes aster

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: master*

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: everyone seems to be claiming its running better/great

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: i cant disagree really

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: hey paulie

[10:26] paulie Flomar: Howdeh. :)

[10:26] Richardus Raymaker: howdie

[10:26] Adelle Fitzgerald: hi paulie

[10:26] paulie Flomar: Hey, RR!

[10:26] paulie Flomar: Hey, 'delle!

[10:26] Dahlia Trimble: maybe I'll leave it. Vehicles arent working for me but I dont care for too much vehicle use anyway

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think physics is a bit off for some reason

[10:27] Simpy Merryman: vehicles working on all my regions

[10:27] Penny Lane mumbles "test suite"

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya they work for me too

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: but sometimes they get wierd

[10:27] Adelle Fitzgerald: physics wants chucking out hehe

[10:28] Adelle Fitzgerald: i think about 90% of the problems i have on my regions and the homesteads is ODE related

[10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online

[10:28] Richardus Raymaker: does the pre have newer ode ?

[10:28] Dahlia Trimble: well Teravus is the master of integrating physics engines, and he's not around lately

[10:28] Penny Lane: Cripes, I've just found a face in Neb's moon floor. Maybe I need more sleep.

[10:28] Adelle Fitzgerald: i dont think ODE has been updated in eons

[10:28] Adelle Fitzgerald: in opensim that is

[10:29] Lord General: Can't do without physics though. Couldn't do anything without it. Has to be one of the major hurdles for Os grid too.

[10:29] Dahlia Trimble: lol

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol Penny, ya Hopefully teravus gets some time soon, ive not seen him lately too

[10:29] Dahlia Trimble: the man on the moon ?

[10:29] Adelle Fitzgerald: its funny, the best implementation of ODE I have seen is on my iPhone hehe

[10:29] Richardus Raymaker: hi penny

[10:30] Penny Lane: Hi Richardus :-)

[10:30] Dahlia Trimble: Penny got me playing Guild Wars last night, and now lack of sleep is her payback ;)

[10:30] Penny Lane feels miserable about that

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:30] Dahlia Trimble: awwww ;)

[10:31] Penny Lane: Well it beats hitting one's head against Linden brick walls

[10:32] Dahlia Trimble: I just imagine those scorpian things as having Linden last names

[10:32] Penny Lane splurts coffee all over

[10:32] Richardus Raymaker: about lindens. it would be nice if we could teleport between sl and osgrid. with IM working but no inventory ytransfer. just inventory server change

[10:33] Dahlia Trimble: ask LL, if enought people ask, they may do something

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: lol

[10:33] Penny Lane: Rich: don't hold your breath. My guess is that LL will interop only long after open grids have it all sorted out.

[10:33] Richardus Raymaker: only right answhere penny

[10:33] Richardus Raymaker: the have there hands full with fixing there own made bugs

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I think LL are executing on a business plan and it would take an enormous amount to move them off that in the short term

[10:33] Lord General: Don't see them ever doing it to be honest. I think they will go bump long before they work with any of the OS projects.

[10:33] Adelle Fitzgerald: for me to goto other grids, or sims, i want to take my inventory with me, otherwise i would be all ruthy

[10:34] Penny Lane: Talking of which, has Diva been mentioning ideas for HG2 recently?

[10:34] Dahlia Trimble: we'll need 100k people asking LL "hey I'd like to TP to SL and check it out sometime"

[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: isn't that more than the active sl populatio nthough? :)

[10:34] Sarah Kline: I dont want to go lol

[10:34] Adelle Fitzgerald: so thats 3 people and 99997 bots, Dahlia? :P

[10:34] Dahlia Trimble: yep, thats the idea

[10:34] Richardus Raymaker: adella, i have inventory in SL :)

[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: ah :)

[10:34] Penny Lane: Yeah Adelle. There's little value in TP without having access to the assets back home.

[10:35] Fu Barr: i dont think interop will ever come to SL, LL has the walled garden too far embedded in it's currentroadmap.

[10:35] Adelle Fitzgerald: yes RiRa, but my inventory in SL is different to here

[10:35] Penny Lane: I don't wanna know about LL, I want to know how Opensim's going to do it.

[10:35] Adelle Fitzgerald: and for that kinda interop, i might aswell jsyt log off OSgird, and log into SL, and use skype for IMs

[10:35] Fu Barr: exactly - was just going to say that :)

[10:36] Lord General: Funny though how talk always turns to LL lol

[10:36] Adelle Fitzgerald: i very much doubt that a proper interop between other grids and SL will ever happen tbh

[10:36] WhiteStar Magic: @ Penny, High 5

[10:36] Adelle Fitzgerald: i will be *very* surprised it if does

[10:36] Penny Lane: Hurli seems to have part of the problem sorted out, with the Cable Beach stuff and WebDAV inventories (as just one example, not required)

[10:37] WhiteStar Magic: How is SiminanGrid at this stage ?

[10:37] Jim Radford: CableBeach is pretty much dead

[10:37] Dahlia Trimble: supposedly the cable beach stuff is going to be vwrap compliant. I have a small test grid set up with it

[10:37] Penny Lane: Jim: it's reborn under another name

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: SimianGrid is coming alont, much to do

[10:37] Richardus Raymaker: if there's a viewer plug for SL adella so otehr can IM you to if your not inworld. then yes. skype dont work then i think

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: alont=along*

[10:37] Jim Radford: Penny: what name?

[10:37] Penny Lane: Jim: VWRAP

[10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought it was SimianGrid now

[10:37] Jim Radford: who is working on that?

[10:37] Fu Barr: I used SimainGrid as the datastore for my private regions - worked well, but i abandoned my profilemodule work as the tables are all different

[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: the best HG to LL is without inventory

[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: better i dont expect

[10:38] Penny Lane: Hurli's merged the old Cable Beach into where VWRAP is heading, and the first implementation of services is SimianGrid.

[10:38] Dahlia Trimble: I tried to upload an IAR into simianGrid, not working, dunno why yet

[10:38] WhiteStar Magic: ugh.. enough with LL already

[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: yes i filed a bug report on that dahlia

[10:38] Lord General: Here here!

[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: the password retreival is failing i beleive

[10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: we could talk about blue mars ;)

[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: so IAR still not ok ?

[10:38] Adelle Fitzgerald: lol

[10:38] Jim Radford: Penny: I wrote SimianGrid :) CableBeach is Dead

[10:39] WhiteStar Magic: LOL JCC

[10:39] Penny Lane: Don't need LL, leave them out of it. They'll come along for the party, about 5 years too late.

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: not yet on SimianGrid yet Richardus, its probably not too dificult a fix

[10:39] Lord General: Meshes would be nice in OS grid though :P

[10:39] Dahlia Trimble: nebadon, is it OpenSim or SimianGrid?

[10:39] Dahlia Trimble: it wouldnt accept my password

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure it could be the simiangrid connectors in opensim itself

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: but yes, same for me

[10:39] Dahlia Trimble: ya thats what I thought

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: its probably just not linking to simian at that point, some missed connection

[10:40] Penny Lane: Jim: you mean the name "Cable Beach" is dead. SimianGrid is a first implementation of VWRAP-type services.

[10:40] WhiteStar Magic: I been having trouble getting my stuff after loading an IAR on 6.8-poost-fix

[10:40] WhiteStar Magic: almosta 50/50 ratio of good to non-good

[10:40] Dahlia Trimble: I couldnt load it at all

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya the Simian grid failure is always

[10:40] Penny Lane: John chose to evolve the CB concept to merge it with VWRAP.

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: its never worked there yet

[10:40] WhiteStar Magic: maybe diff is, I run pure windows only

[10:41] Jim Radford: Penny: I've never looked at Cable Beach and can assure you it wasn't considered during the development of SimianGrid. SimianGrid was written to be simulator and viewer agnostic by design.

[10:42] Bartholomew Kleiber: Hi, all.

[10:42] Penny Lane: Jim: good, that's the idea behind VWRAP services, which John was evolving CB into.

[10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hi bart

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya its safe to say the C# cable beach project is now defunct

[10:42] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, Bart.

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: the focus is Simian

[10:43] Dahlia Trimble: I'm going to poof and try to get some food before the Joe Linden talk. Bye all :) *waves and disappears....

[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahila

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: ok Dahlia, thanks for coming

[10:43] Penny Lane: Cya Dahlia :-)

[10:43] Dahlia Trimble is Offline

[10:43] paulie Flomar: bye, Dahlia.

[10:43] Jim Radford: there is another project "unga" or someshit but I'm not sure how far along it is

[10:43] Sweet JaneX: lol

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya i saw that too Jim, im not sure either

[10:43] Fu Barr: wasnt unga written to .6.6 or some earlier versino

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: its good to see people making things that suit their needs though

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: i think so Fu Barr

[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: as long as they don't get pissed off when opensim changes underneath them

[10:44] Richardus Raymaker: hi FU barr

[10:44] Fu Barr: hey Rich :)

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya

[10:44] Jim Radford: JCC nobody would ever get upset about something like that happening :)

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: ha

[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: ping

[10:46] Jim Radford: pong

[10:46] Penny Lane: The whole idea in VWRAP isthat everything is decoupled into services (which is the idea in Opensim's connectors too), and that each service can be offered by countless alternative providers. That unga thing is just another provider --- the more the merrier.

[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: pause or crash - don't know until you collapse the waveform :)

[10:46] Bartholomew Kleiber: lol

[10:47] Adelle Fitzgerald is Online

[10:47] Bartholomew Kleiber: so cable beach is basically gone, did I get that right?

[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: we'll see, Sometimes it feels that having so much stuff in opensim is chaotic

[10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: it's impossible to support everything

[10:48] Jim Radford: Bart: yep, its been superceeded by SimianGridServices

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: yes, not that its use was every that widely adopted

[10:48] Fu Barr agrees with JCC about some of the chaotic...

[10:48] Bartholomew Kleiber: I also read that John Hurliman is gone from SL in last weeks porotocol?

[10:48] Bartholomew Kleiber: protocol*

[10:49] Jim Radford: not sure what that means

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: no sure either, doesnt seem likely though

[10:49] Penny Lane: JCC: Yep, Hurli ended his SL account over LL's idiotic TPV policy

[10:49] paulie Flomar: wow

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: ah really

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: interesting i didnt hear that

[10:49] Jim Radford: I had not heard that either

[10:49] Penny Lane: He said so on the #vwrap IRC channel, which Latif pasted to us in Groupies

[10:50] Bartholomew Kleiber: check last weeks log :-)

[10:50] WhiteStar Magic: yep, he cashed out same time I did

[10:50] WhiteStar Magic: and LL is throttling back cash out to 7 bus days

[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: does libopenmetaverse count as a tpv?

[10:50] Penny Lane: Lots of people terminated accounts there

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: well they certainly dont list it as authorized viewer

[10:50] paulie Flomar: Nicholaz, of the Nocholaz viewer, apparebtly cancelled his account, also. http://nicholaz-beresford.blogspot.com/

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: Libomv that is nor do they list SecondInventory

[10:51] Penny Lane: JCC: clients that use libomv qualify. Whether the library does is a fine point --- legally, methinks not.

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: they claim they arent just going to willy nilly ban people for using unthorized viewers

[10:51] Jim Radford: we (libomv) haven't even tried to become one, we are a library not a viewer

[10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: fine line

[10:51] paulie Flomar: I guess The Boy Lane Viewer and IMprudence Viewer are out, also.

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: but the TOS sure seems like they are going to ban people

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: refardless of what they say

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: regardless*

[10:52] WhiteStar Magic: yeah, Boylane just cut her final Rainbow

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: the TOS seemed harsh to me

[10:52] Penny Lane: Fine line, but you have to be firm with that line, regardless of any idiotic policy that LL write.

[10:52] paulie Flomar: Emerald may be out, too,

[10:52] paulie Flomar: Way to kill the second most popular viewr after yer own, LL.

[10:52] Jim Radford: and LL is saying "good riddance"

[10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: do you get a sense of any internal conflict with LL about the tpv?

[10:53] Penny Lane: I think their lawyers must have dropped out of law school. The TPV isn't even GPL compliant with their GPL source licensing.

[10:53] Bartholomew Kleiber: didn't try to log on SL with Emerald, lately - what happens if I do?

[10:53] Penny Lane: JCC: yes, huge

[10:53] paulie Flomar: Hey, Steve Jobs says Apple now has a patent on the word "pad." Craziness abounds.

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: well from all the lindens they spoke too they say you wont be banned for just logging in with Emerald

[10:54] WhiteStar Magic: "YET"

[10:54] WhiteStar Magic: wait 6 monthjs and see

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya and I dont think anyone can claim they have been

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I did find it laughable that one linden said thta non-lawyers shouldnt' try to interpret the legalese. As if anyone could afford to hire a lawyer.

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: so hard to say just yet

[10:54] Lord General: We made our way back to LL as a topic of conversation >.<

[10:54] Richardus Raymaker: if emerald is out and SL1 dont work anymore. im lost there.

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i dot think they are out honestly

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, someone could try and strike out away from LL :)

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: as harsh as the TOS is, i dont think they indend on mass bans

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: lord: anything you want to talk about?

[10:55] Bartholomew Kleiber: sry didnt want to push this to talk about LL

[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: i go still everytime in with emerald.

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: it will still likely be reviewed on a case by case basis and require some kind of abuse report attached to it

[10:55] Dobrin Tasev: sorry

[10:55] Fu Barr: i was wondering if anybody heredevelops on a mac/mono/mondevelop setup?

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: they wont be stalking viewer abusers

[10:55] Lord General: Naw! Just listening mainly. I just think its funny how most people spend their time bashing LL, but at an OS dev meeting we're still suckered into talking about them. :)

[10:55] Dobrin Tasev: emerald is ok there

[10:55] Dobrin Tasev: i'm still not banned there

[10:56] Bartholomew Kleiber: k :-)

[10:56] Justin Clark-Casey: Lord: they are the relative 500 pound gorilla :) This doesn't happen every week - just there's all the controversy over there atm and it could end up affecting things here indirectly, at least

[10:56] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess not talking about OpenSim is almost a good sign - means that it's not in one of its constant-crash memory-eating phases :)

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: hehe right

[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: lol justin. no talk no bugs :)

[10:57] WhiteStar Magic: we need some Load Testing Fun !!!!

[10:57] Bartholomew Kleiber: JCC: I wanted to try IAR soon-ish, still didnt find time to do so.

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya we can do some load tests

[10:57] Dobrin Tasev: dev's i have a stupid question

[10:57] Dobrin Tasev: sorry for my eng

[10:57] Bartholomew Kleiber: oh, and will there be stress tests again?

[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I hope to fix up some of the oar/iar issues soon - just not got much time atm and spending too much trying to fix these bloody sqlite issues

[10:57] Simpy Merryman: load testing? - hehe one of these days I want to test the mega under load and see what happens :P

[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: dobrin: what is it ? :)

[10:58] Bartholomew Kleiber: @sqlite:oops, I hope that wasnt my fault ;-).

[10:58] Dobrin Tasev: i've only read here

[10:58] Dobrin Tasev: libs blq blq

[10:58] Dobrin Tasev: ok

[10:58] Fu Barr: i'm having issues on OSX where monodevelop doens't see all the required libs in the =right place - the filepaths seem to be broken and nant from the prompt looks for mono profile 3.5... all quite frustrating. on the otherhand if i;m the only person trying to use osx as an opensim dev platform... i'll just give up and use Visual C#

[10:58] Bartholomew Kleiber: the IRC channel still says something like 'let's do 100++'

[10:58] Dobrin Tasev: this is not support forum here right :)

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: heh monodevelop probably doesnt work much better in Linux

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: fu: actually I'm using monodevelop on linux and I think I have the same issues. But I'm so stupid I end up just remembering method names instead of trying to fix things :)

[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: fu: I think there might be something funny about the opensim structure that is causing monodevelop problems because I couldn't find any help on google

[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: kind of hoping that ubuntu 10.04 magically fixes it :)

[11:00] Fu Barr: ah - nice to see i;m not the only sod getting stuck with that stuff. almost wanted throw the mbp out the window for not being a 'proper' *nix.

[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: happy with opensuse

[11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: dobrin: you can ask questions on the opensim mialing lists/irc or perhaps the osgrid forums

[11:00] Dobrin Tasev: mhm

[11:00] Fu Barr: jcc: lol - i;ve tried arch, opensuse and fedora and it's all useless...

[11:01] Dobrin Tasev: i've try

[11:01] Dobrin Tasev: :)

[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: it seems i cannot post in the mailing list JCC

[11:01] WhiteStar Magic: or in teh IRC Channel

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: dorbin: or here if you like :)

[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: maby i use wrong name ?

[11:01] Dobrin Tasev: all of you talk about inv in SL

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: should work - the mailing lists were slow a while back

[11:01] Dobrin Tasev: i'm newbie here

[11:01] Dobrin Tasev: noob ok

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: and some posts did get dropped

[11:02] Fu Barr: on the otherhand it does work in visual c# - so maybe it's a something that vis c# doens;t do cross platform or just a silly import bug on the monodevelop side of things?

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i think its how the project is setup Fu Bar

[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think OpenSim somehow catches some obscure monodevelop bug

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: it has worked in the past

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: its just no one maintains the monodevelop compatibility

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i think most everyone is using either VS or non visual tools

[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: monodevelop does work - it's just that autocomplete on it is broken

[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: JCC, i got some message back with error. forgot the error

[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: and I think that's probably (?) more a monodevelop issue

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ah i see

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: could be

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: its been very beta'ish

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: for a while

[11:03] Fu Barr: sigh... i have a hhard enough time getting my head round C#/vis ide and th eopensim codebase - dont have the headspace to even think about debugging or following up on monodevelop issues...

[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno, something odd is going on but it's not obvious.

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya in the past i remember it being prebuild issues maybe?

[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: fu: if you try and open a 0.6.8 solution in monodevelop it eats up all the memory and crashes virtually ever ytime

[11:03] Fu Barr: jcc - lovely :(

[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: it's fine atm. but then I always open the microsoft sln with monodevelop and not the native monodevelop project file

[11:04] Fu Barr: okay - well it's decided then - i'll use win7 or a virtual box to run vis c# when I get back to the code after this weeks building spree.

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: probably a good idea

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i do a lot in virtualization

[11:05] Fu Barr: heh - might get that extra 4Gb ram after all then...

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya both my main work machines have 8gb each,that helps

[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: virtualpc only not so good with bridge mode under win7. never got that working

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: use Virtualbox

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: its awesome

[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: lol fu

[11:06] Fu Barr: anyhow next issue i want ed to ask about was how many people would I annoy if i try moving the configuration files ini et al. into their own dirs...

[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: i cant use virtualbox nebadon. thats biteing virtualpc win7 xp machine

[11:06] Fu Barr: i had a few people get very very lost over the phone/IM etc. when trying to expln how to configure opensim

[11:06] Richardus Raymaker: win7 business here.

[11:07] Fu Barr: ie. split the libs and bins from the config... the 'everything otgether' layout is quite daunting to the newcomer

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: fu: it's a mess but there are several interlocking issues

[11:07] Fu Barr: jcc - pray tell :)

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I once tried moving the dlls but then had loading issues on linux for some reason.

[11:08] Fu Barr: ya - that stopped me dead in my tracks

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: or some such - that was a year or so ago

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: i run Virtualbox on my Win7x64 workstations

[11:08] Fu Barr: so i though maybe leave the libs and the bins and just move the config stuff

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: and ive run virtually every OS you can imagine in virtualbox

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: i even tried Android the other da

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: day*

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: fu: what particular aspects of config?

[11:08] Fu Barr: nebadon: ya win7 x64 with virtualbox rocks.

[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: i now virtualbox roicks. but how do i get the win7 business xp in virtualbox ?

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: that should be easy

[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: nah. i dont go screw it... maby someday

[11:09] Adelle Fitzgerald: i gotta go, ill catch yas later

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: it would be like setting up virtually any other OS on it

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: kk Later Adelle :)

[11:09] Adelle Fitzgerald: bye all!

[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: bye adelle

[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: bye adella.

[11:09] Adelle Fitzgerald is Offline