Chat log from the meeting on 2022-04-12

 [11:04] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi MrBlue [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:05] Meeting Chat Logger V4: Meeting chat logging has been enabled. [11:05] Meeting Chat Logger V4: Be sure to stop and clear the log at the end of the meeting, this will create the archive @ https://outreach.blight.media/archive/ [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew, MB [11:05] Meeting Chat Logger V4: You can view the log at: https://outreach.blight.media/index.php [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice to be back at our usual meeting location. [11:05] Misterblue Waves: hi all [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker [11:06] Kayaker Magic: Hello all! Dev Outreach is BACK! [11:06] Misterblue Waves: /clap clap clap [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker. [11:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that was a doozey of an outage, glad its back up [11:07] Misterblue Waves: was it an asset database problem? [11:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats what I read [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. [11:08] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok hello, sorry im behind lol [11:08] Misterblue Waves: and people think they will "solve" the asset problems to going to blockchains....  [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: really [11:09] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: smh [11:09] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:09] Misterblue Waves: hi selby [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby [11:09] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hey selby [11:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh MrBlue might know about the physics lsl function issue [11:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Interesting question that SetForce, it's supposed to apply a force to the root part of the parent group, which is the avatar essentially. ApplyImpulse on the other hand applies force just to the object the script is in. I used to have a landmine script somewhere that would throw you into the air, so applying force to an avatar is possible, guessing it just doesn't use the correct scope when attached [11:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llPushObject works [11:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but llSetForce does not [11:10] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hmm [11:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: same on bullet and ubode [11:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that is, not working when worn as an attachment [11:11] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: PushObject calls ApplyImpulse on the object, SetForce just applies a force to it, guess that's different [11:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: should I open a bug report on that? [11:12] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Can push object move avatars? It seems to be checking for that in the implementation [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: The function name says object so I wouldn't expect it to move an avatar. [11:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes [11:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llPushObject on a worn object does move the avatar [11:13] Misterblue Waves: there would be, at least, a bunch of permission checks on pushing avatars [11:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but only momentarily as designed [11:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that would be really useful for things like parachutes, anti-gravity etc [11:14] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It does AddForce on avatars [11:14] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Which is different from SetForce [11:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I don't have vs code open so can't check what difference that makes [11:15] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llSetForce(<0,0,0x7FFFFFFF>, 0) does nothing when object is attachment [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: The wiki page for the function says the object needs to be marked physical. [11:16] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: correct, [11:16] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes I made it physical and call lsl to turn on physics too [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. [11:17] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: shall I open ticket on that? [11:17] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Hm [11:19] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: wanted to check here forst in case there is a known issue or I'm forgetting something stupid [11:19] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: The only implementation of SetForce is SceneObjectPart, which I am not sure if that includes avatars directly [11:21] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: AddForce is implemented on the physics actors so that's why that works [11:21] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that might explain why it works on objects not worn [11:21] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: OdeCharacter has no SetForce [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, Yes, file a ticket. [11:22] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, will do. Thanks for taking a look [11:22] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It says AddForce is meant to set a target velocity [11:22] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: That seems odd [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It does just add a momentary force doesn't, just pushes you up and then you fall again [11:24] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I've used it on worn objects in Havok and it is a constant force [11:24] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: So PushObject works the way you need for say a parachute, just SetForce is meant to as well? [11:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llPushObject is only momentary [11:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a timer works but is bumpy and not server-friendly [11:25] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Ah okay [11:26] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: llSetForce is supposed to be the way to get constant force [11:26] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: unless someone knows of another way [11:27] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: As in that constantly pushes you in a certain direction I presume [11:27] Misterblue Waves: I think objects just have the attribute "velocity" so adding or setting the force mostly modifies the velocity (and direction of that velocity) [11:27] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: In my case Im only applying it in the z-direction for such things as parachutes etc [11:28] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Velocity should be absolute and directionless so it just tells how much you are moving, not where, think the return type of that is a float [11:29] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: There is a SetAcceleration in here that takes a vector input [11:29] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it seems that would make more sense with acceleration [11:29] Misterblue Waves: absolute velocity is a float but, in the physics engines, it is a vector (direction and magnitude) [11:30] Misterblue Waves: there is some inconsistancies with the application of all the different way to change force/acceleration/direction/... [11:30] Misterblue Waves: so adding a Mantis entry would start the wider discussion about what really should be happening [11:32] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: maybe that means we need to find someone who has time to re-evaluate the force related methods and bring them all into a more unified method. ive still got my team rebuilding the whole world and viewer from scratch so i know they understand how all the pieces work together before i try putting them back on OS code [11:33] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: once they can make a viewer able to interact successfully with a very basic test world then they can try reconnecting to hg [11:33] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well since llPushObject is working on a scripted attachment I was hoping it wouldn't be a big jump for llSetForce [11:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but I feared it might have already been implemented unless there was a bigger issue [11:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll open a mantis [11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: would this be a physics engine issue or lsl issue? [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Good question. [11:36] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll mark mantis as a physics engine issue for now [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Go with physics engine. [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: make a lsl issue initially and I guess it can be changed if needed [11:37] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll mark it as lsl issue, can be changed later [11:39] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I'll fiddle around with that code a bit maybe I can get some more info on what these functions do [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Thanks, Vincent. [11:41] Misterblue Waves: and the different physics engines will implement things differently so be specific on which one you're using [11:43] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I've been testing it in the different OSG sandboxes with diff physics engines, same result [11:44] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but my grid is using bullet [11:44] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Hm ubode implements a SetAcceleration, Bullet does not weird [11:46] Misterblue Waves: for whatever reasons, physics implementation is spread between the simulator, the c# physics code, and the underlying C++ physics code. The different implementations of the C# and C++ physics code have always done things a little differently [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to the top of the hour. Any other topic(s) for today? [11:50] Jagga Meredith: I fixed my toilet!! [11:50] Jagga Meredith: not particularly relevant but I live a lonely life and noplace else to brag about it [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to have a working one to save you digging a hole in your backyard. :) [11:52] Misterblue Waves: I hate working on toilets. Here in the US we have flappers and leaks. I would like the European solution that seems to be reliable enough to embed in the wall [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Not a lot to report regarding changes to the OpenSim code. this past week. There was a fair number of commits but most of them appear to be related to code cleanup. [11:52] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: lol glad its fixed jaggaa [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: There were some changes to the simulatorFeatures cap. [11:52] Misterblue Waves: and I have been tweaking on PreBuild to allow it to process projects in "netstandard2_0" and "net6" [11:52] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: had to do that myself a time or 2\ [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Another texture was added that is used by eep. [11:53] Misterblue Waves: someday the simulator will be updated to the newer build systems [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: There was also one minor bug fix to osParcelSubdivide. It won't do anything if there isn't a match to the entire original parcel. [11:55] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: misterblue - now youve gotme thinking of nickleback - "someday, somehow" [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Not quite sure what that is meant to say. [11:55] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: newer code bases maybe? or new physis engines? [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Someday, somehow, somewhere reminds me of another song. Looking it up it is from West Side Story. [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd like to see the viewer use a newer build system. [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: There is also Somewhere Over the Rainbow [11:56] Misterblue Waves: it is true that such a project is probably big enough that it will probably never happen... but I want to keep my hopes up [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: The main OS code base uses a simple build system by comparison to that used in the viewer. [11:57] Misterblue Waves: I'm using the new build frameworks for addon_modules and not changing the simulator proper [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lol [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Any news about the physics engine or viewer worth mentioning before we wrap up todays meeting? [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL is working on a completely new cap for profiles [12:00] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not here [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure what it means for viewer compatibility quite yet [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: That could have an impact on the profile modules. [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am also nearing the point with my rework where I will fork it and add back the opensim code [12:01] Misterblue Waves is unsure about the relationship between LL and the third-party viewers [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: absolutely will impact profiles [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 98% of the code in the TPV is LL code [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: inseparable [12:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Can you add the pushobject method to the mantis so I got something to test against [12:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Cause I am not getting any movement out of it [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, has LL said anything about what they have in mind for profiles? [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The bulk of TPV code is UI modding [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are re-implementing the classic profiles, but served via a cap [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the classic profiles in the current viewers are primarily FS code [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they are doing away with that [12:05] Misterblue Waves: i'm off. take care all!! [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a good one [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Misterblue. Thanks for being here. [12:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc mrblue gtsy [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: You picked a good day as there was some physics related questions [12:05] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: im heading out too, got to get back on the road to the office [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Michael. Thanks for being here. [12:05] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hasve a great week and tty soon!\ [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just past the top of the hour. If there is nothing more for today I will wrap up todays meeting. [12:06] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm heading out too.. Take care all! [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Cuga. [12:06] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, RL is calling me also [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: With people needing to go I will call this meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.