Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-25

 [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:02] Dev Random: BTW Robert, I wasn't making a feature request... just throwing out an idea. [11:02] Robert Adams: balls of string!!! [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:03] dan banner: hey justin [11:03] Dev Random: Hello Justin [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hello justin [11:03] dadix forever: hello all [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone :) [11:04] Robert Adams: hey Justin and Nebadon! [11:04] Mata Hari waves to Justin and Neb [11:04] Lani Global: hi Justin [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: its good to see the Wiki semi back to normal, thanks for fixing that up Justin [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: I think Key Gruin and I killed most of the spam [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, you guys have been doing a great job [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: just need to remember to regularly check the account request moderation queue now [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:06] Cuteulala Artis: we need a real prim moon that we can program rockts to fly to :P and take a few days to gt there [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: can we have it email us or anything? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi cute. lol [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: unfortunately there was no option for that. There is a setting which suggests it should put up some notice if there are pending requests but that doesn't look to be working on the opensim wiki skin [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ok [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be really good to have an e-mail option... some of these mediawiki plugins are pretty basic, which surprises me since I would have thuoght they would see a lot of use [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: getting tea, brb [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a shame we can not subscribe to that page [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: to be alerted to changes [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: I will keep an eye on it though [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they wanted to talk about today? [11:10] Mircea Kitsune: Nothing in mind sadly [11:10] dadix forever: maybe someone will add a feed to that page to resolve the problem [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: back [11:10] Fearghus McMahon: evening all [11:10] dadix forever: rss feed [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think we can [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: its admin only page [11:10] Lani Global: I contributed my first-ever patches a few days ago. I hope to start doing more for the codebase in the near future. [11:10] dadix forever: feed burner ? [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: you could modifiy the code to add in the email notification [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its admin restricted area dadix [11:11] Mircea Kitsune: Thanks Lani, any contribution can be helpful [11:11] Cuteulala Artis: wOw! nice lani [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I suggest that we err on the side of approving requests, unless it's obvious there's a whole load of spam bots [11:12] Mircea Kitsune: Oh... actually I had a question [11:12] dadix forever: me too [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya makes sense Justin [11:12] dadix forever: :) [11:12] Lani Global: In the process of looking at the mantis, I was surprised how many old reports are now fixed, and updated some of them to solved. Thanks to all the devs who made those happen. [11:12] Mircea Kitsune: Is it or will it be possible to make NPC's sit in vehicles and ride them to places? [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: I just aproved one actually [11:12] Mata Hari: how rigidly is the 100-line patch limit adhered to for non-contributors? I understand that Freaky was able to fix the llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast bug for avi in his sim but he said it exceeds 100 lines so he can't donate it [11:12] Mircea Kitsune: Like avatars can ride vehicles [11:12] Cuteulala Artis: i got a speal request not sure if tis viewer fault [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I dont recall any hard rule on 100 line patches [11:13] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:13] Cuteulala Artis: i cant seem to make a mesh terrain past 256 [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: as long as its not touching 100 different files [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: it's not a hard and fast rule. Perhaps that number should be raised [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: if its only patching 1 specific area then its normally not an issue, it really depends on how tangly the patch is [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: what we frown upon is patches that fix 10 different things at once in 1 big patch generally [11:14] lila stone: hey [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, those are a pain [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: or patches that effect large swaths of differnt files [11:14] Doc Smirnov: shello [11:14] Mata Hari: kk....I'll five him a link to the transcript (once Justim posts it) and hopefully he will post his fix then [11:14] Mata Hari: *give [11:14] Doc Smirnov: that was my fault ;-( [11:14] lila stone: did we get kicked [11:14] lila stone: hahahaha [11:14] lila stone: i froze and crashed [11:14] Doc Smirnov: they are all reloaded now though [11:14] lila stone: hahahaha [11:15] Doc Smirnov: i accidentally did that while loading the last sim [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: honestly, if he is unsure he can juts post it and if it's somehow a problem I would let him know. I highly doubt that would be the case [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: in fact, I may amend the wiki text right now to make that clear [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: good idea [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: there is a build up of patches at the moment which I hope to start looking at soon [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: though there are a couple of other issues I want to address first [11:15] dan banner: hi dahlia [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:15] Mata Hari: yeah, from what i gathered from what he said, there was some legal thing where you couldn't accept it if it was more than 100 lines but perhaps he misread it [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: thats good news to if there's a patch pileup :O [11:16] Doc Smirnov: server 1 is loading a little slow lila but it should be done in a minute or so ok [11:16] Mata Hari: (I haven't read the document myself so just repeating what he told me) [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: oh well if he is going to be a regular contributor he would need to fill out a contributor agreement [11:16] lila stone: ok np [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: it's not particularly straightforward [11:17] Doc Smirnov: the mall is on that server so it takes a little longer iz all [11:17] Mata Hari: I think he can't do that because he works from home freelance and that somehow interferes with the contributor agreement (no idea why/how) [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: not sure, but that doesnt really sound right to me [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: that shouldn't be the case. If he has any questions I would be happy to answer them directly if he wants to e-mail me [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: we don't require copyright assignment or anything like that [11:17] Mircea Kitsune: Nice... been a while since I heard voice in Opensim :) [11:18] Mata Hari: kk, I'll beg him to do that since it would be really nice for that bug not to celebrate a 2nd birthday [11:18] Doc Smirnov: looks loaded now lila letz try and go home ;-) [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: although in theory... if he has a contract that says his employer owns everything he does at any time that's another thing [11:18] lila stone: ok [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: though the enforcibility of such things are very open to question [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, question. why is wright plaza flipped and mirrored on the map and minimap ? [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: I had one of those once :( [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: me too [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: but now my brain is all mine :D [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: whats left of it [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: ?¸.•* LoL *•.¸? [11:19] Vivian Klees: lol [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey smiles [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is it? [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: let me look [11:19] dan banner: looks right on my map [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya looks right to me also [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: what viewer? [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: on kokua. wroight plaza office building is now sw corner [11:20] Mata Hari: wow....that would be an ugly contract to sign....no-compete clauses, sure. but "I own your neurons" would be scary [11:20] Fearghus McMahon: looks ok on firestorm here [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I think what your seeing os the fountain [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: the building is in the center [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: Kokua 3.6.12.30743 [11:20] Mircea Kitsune: I'm on Kokua too if it helps test stuff [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: cant be in the corner [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: that white box is the fountain I think [11:21] Mircea Kitsune: I don't see a white box [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm think your right nebadon. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: Warp3D isnt perfect [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: Mata, it's acrually very common among large corporations [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: maby because the detailed map.. :) [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: i think its betetr then before [11:22] Fearghus McMahon: btw...is it me or is the generation of mappicture taking longer in the latest osgrid release? [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: i need to update kokua anyway [11:22] Robert Adams: my company has a process of registering "own time projects" to allow people to do outside development [11:22] Mata Hari is glad she isn't a software developer then [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: ya usually they will be somewhat open to letting people exploit their own ideas, they just dont want their employees competing against them [11:23] Dev Random: That's a clause I almost always need to have amended to something like "related to the project under contract". [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:23] Mircea Kitsune: hi [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: hi Richardus [11:24] Mata Hari: in my world it's project parameters + deadline schedule + usually NDA and no-compete but that's it [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear people say generation of maptile is taking longer than usual but would need to see on latest master code to be sure [11:25] dan banner: justin a few users have mentioned land settings/ownship reverting [11:26] dan banner: one opened a mantis about it [11:26] dan banner: but a few have mentioned it to me [11:26] dan banner: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7035 [11:26] Mata Hari: that happened to Doro the other day when Aki updated her regions [11:26] Lani Global: i think a slightly longer maptile generation is fine. it is much improved from previous map tiles. [11:26] Mata Hari: some things I made for her reverted to me and ceased functioning [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: okay, I'll have a look when I can [11:26] dan banner: thanks [11:27] Lani Global: previous map tiles were badly distorted in luminance and color and size. [11:27] Dahlia Trimble: Justin, I could see it taking longer since now mesh decoding is working rather than throwing exceptions [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: with map tile generation, if your flotsam cache is empty, maptile generation with Warp3D takes a while [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: when I was looking at warp 3d code I saw that it doesn't properly release bitmaps, at th every least [11:27] Mata Hari: a long, long while :p [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: but on the next restart when cache is already populated it will go much faster and use less memory [11:27] Cuteulala Artis: i go to the sandbox here i hope i can listen to chat tho Ah HAHAHA... :O [11:27] dan banner: justin: i opened another one, its kind of sketchy atm http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7030 [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: so I may try and clean that up, though that means adjusting the warp3d objects gslightly I think, probably tio add a Dispose method [11:28] dan banner: but i will try and provide more log files from both ends as i can [11:28] Fearghus McMahon: it seemed to take several minutes last time after i restarted my region and extreme lag in the region.....but since i didn't reproduce it i can't say if it wasn't also just a network hickup somewhere.....will keep an eye on it [11:28] Mata Hari: is it critical that map tile generation is done before the sim start-up can complete? [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: also, do you know if these are teleports back to regions with a lot of surroudning regions? [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: I have found that with slightly older releases of Singularity, for instance, that can fail a lot. Newer releases don't hae that issue [11:28] Dahlia Trimble prefers using to Dispose [11:28] dan banner: no justin some are all alone with no neighbours [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. cant say it. my 0.8dev is still empty. until i can edit terrain normal. but for now it seems fine [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that would call Dispose underneath [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: ok [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: I did put a small question on that mantis to clarify what you mean by a 'local' user [11:29] Dahlia Trimble: ya but its syntactically prettier and easier to get it correct [11:29] Alecias original AO modstand: AO ACTIVE [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: I agree [11:29] dan banner: it seem to affect the local (nat'd) user mostly [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: ? am natted [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: so these are servers they are running on their own lan? [11:29] dan banner: yes, home connections [11:30] dan banner: good internet speeds, etc [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: worth asking them what they experience if they fallback to the older teleport protocol [11:30] dan banner: happened to me a few times on my connection even [11:30] Mata Hari: all it needs to do is choke on one texture send and the tp will fail because all assets haven't been received at the destingation [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: yeah, it sounds like this stuff needs improving/fixing [11:31] dan banner: good idea justin, we can switch that and try some more tests [11:31] Robert Adams: and not sure about Warp3D and combining textures and colors... there's a mantis for that problem [11:31] Mata Hari: think it just needs a little revamp of what needs to be received before tp can "complete" [11:31] Robert Adams: Warp3D can take a long time to render a map if there are lots of large prims [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: Robert did you get a chance to load up that oar? [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I say that whilst the older tp prtocol was much less correct than the current one, it did have a different sequenece of calls which might have different behaviour [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: see the out of order issue for yourself? [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: robert, yes [11:31] Mata Hari: as long as the agent transfer can be done, the textures, etc can come a little later [11:32] Robert Adams: I haven't, Nebadon [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:32] Robert Adams: I'm, in my spare time, working with Melanie to get the rest of her changes in [11:32] Robert Adams: so that's slowed terrain down a little [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I'd bet it warp3d would take 10 minutes to render wright plaza if it were enabled here [11:33] Mata Hari: in SL I can tp with complete mesh avi + outfit + jewelry etc and no problems at all....in Ppensim it's impossible to tp if wearing more than about a 10MB mesh/texture combo [11:33] Vivian Klees hands Roberrt a bigger pry bar [11:33] Fearghus McMahon: speaking of oar's....does anybody use the built in oar backup module of opensim? [11:33] Robert Adams: both are 'high priority' :) [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: build in bac kup module ? [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: i think it where not usefull for me because soem restrictions. but never seen it. [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: Mata, SL has all its servers in data centers with high-speed backbones connecting them, so teleports *better* work better there :) [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia it is enabled here [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and if I clear the fcache and restart [11:34] Fearghus McMahon: yes...opensim has a oar backup module...which theoretically could save an oar of a region on a scheduled basis [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its 20+ minutes [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: ?¸.•* LoL *•.¸? [11:34] dadix forever: aurora-sim has automated backup [11:34] NPC Mover v2.3 #0: attach: 3b01f6d1-a2f0-4041-a1ab-789c1c9b57bf [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: hah whos clicking my NPC buttons? [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i should erase that stuff [11:35] Cuteulala Artis: Me? [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: where did I pick up that horrible gesture? :/ [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I need to clean this place up soon [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: Fearghus, save location can be set ? [11:35] Cuteulala Artis: i discovered a treasure [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ah I should have know :P [11:35] Mata Hari: sure, Dahlia....and that's completely understandable.....the time isn't the issue, it's the "fail and all attachments become invisible and can't be worn/unworn until you relog" that's the issue [11:35] Cuteulala Artis: Ah HAHAHA... :O [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: yes, the guy who contributed it didn't stick around so I have little idea what state it is in [11:35] Cuteulala Artis: dont delete hahaha [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: btw, the oar save dont like it if you save it to remove server straight. always need to save oar local and then move it [11:35] Mata Hari: if the tp completes and it take a minute to rez, no problem [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: dadix: aurora saves region data to some data file they have instead of storing region data in the database. [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: can be fileserver problem to :O [11:36] Dahlia Trimble blames Cuteulala.... ;) [11:36] Fearghus McMahon: even that yes....the issue with it seems that it doesn't load the settings from the ini fils correctly....and that the actual command that starts the save gets a wrong parameter. [11:36] Cuteulala Artis: i affraid to push other buttons [11:36] Cuteulala Artis: Ah HAHAHA... :O [11:36] Fearghus McMahon: I've been meaning to make a mantis about it...but i'm not a coder....just did some dirty hack and slash and seemed to get it sort of working [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, could be network issues if you are saving to remote machine. You should have no issues saving to anywhere on the same server. [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: that's often a good start [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew. samba can have soem problem what i ahve read. but worked around it and backup works fine [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I just save to local HD [11:37] NPC Appearance Creator: NPC Appearance Creator just gave Cuteulala Artisan NPC appearance notecard. [11:37] Fearghus McMahon: justin....so essentially could make a mantis about it and describe what i did? so someone that actually knows the code better has a starting point...or even point me in the proper direction? [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: thats not a backup andrfew [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I can then copy/move oar to another machine if needed. [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: andrew [11:38] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev         26fe59c: 2014-02-24 19:43:06 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:38] UUID Speaker: tetsuya andrew: e0a75621-df96-468a-b7f8-4a2eff8e6857 [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: exactly. Even better if the description is still a patch, even if it is incomplete or abit hacky [11:38] Cuteulala Artis: ned that makes npc walk? [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: oh justin. like a did add to the mantis. keyframemotioon seems to work fine on my 0.7.6.1 [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, back is also done by backing up the main database. :) [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: okay, havne't had a chance to go back and test yet [11:39] Fearghus McMahon: ok will try and find time to compare the code with the current version of opensim [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I must admit, I would be extremely surprised if keyframe motion broke between 0.7.6 and 0.7.6.1, though stranger things have happened [11:39] Mircea Kitsune: Anyone know about my question from earlier too? [11:39] Mircea Kitsune: Is it or will it be possible to make NPC's sit in vehicles and ride them to places? [11:39] Cuteulala Artis: Ohhhh! he stuck on steps [11:39] Cuteulala Artis: ill rescue [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: mircea: I imagine only within same region [11:40] Fearghus McMahon: npc's sitting in a car?....since you can make them sit somewhere...i not see why car would be different? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya my NPC here has been broken for a while [11:40] Lani Global: how close are we to folding in the new code for automatic continuation of scripts while vehicle border crossing? [11:40] Fearghus McMahon: oh aside region crossing i suppose yeah [11:40] Mircea Kitsune: Yeah. But can they also ride vehicles? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i redid the building never fixed its path [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: scripts already do that [11:40] Fearghus McMahon: the npc driving self? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: do you mean physics Lani? [11:40] Lani Global: yes physics vehicles [11:40] Mircea Kitsune: No. Like sit in a car than move in it [11:40] Mircea Kitsune: Drive it [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ok Robert maybe can answer that [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: he is working on that when he can [11:41] Cuteulala Artis: i think he just has trouble walking up Ah HAHAHA... :O [11:41] Mata Hari: pretty sure they can ride in a vehicle if they are sitting on something (poseballish) but can't cross a region boundary and can't be moved by llSetLinkPrimitiveParams [11:41] vegaslon plutonian: things like holding onto control permision and the vehicle variables while border crossing [11:41] Robert Adams: don't know the answer about NPCs and vehicles [11:41] Fearghus McMahon: i think that might be more cripting of the car then the npc Mircea [11:41] Lani Global: presently, i think there is a glitch when the phys vehicle crosses, it becomes just a physical object, and falls to the terrain/floor and then continues again as vehicle [11:41] Fearghus McMahon: +s [11:41] Mircea Kitsune: ok [11:41] Robert Adams: vehicle parameters are not copied across region crossings yet [11:42] Robert Adams: should keep scipt state, though [11:42] Lani Global: ok robert. [11:42] Cuteulala Artis: he looks spooky [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: NPCs will probably only be able to cross in regions running in same simulator [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure we will ever get NPCs crossing between simulators [11:42] Mata Hari: in any event, an NPC can't cross a region boundary that I'm aware of [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia? [11:42] Robert Adams: vegaslon has been successful using the region change event to reset vehicle parameters [11:43] Lani Global: yes, robert, that workaround only works for land vehicles at present time [11:43] dadix forever: a saw in TerrainData.cs   is write :  // Someday terrain will have caves and there is a parameter in z axis. This is very interesting but we don't have tools to dig some caves. [11:43] Lani Global: for flying vehicles, it makes them fall from sky. [11:43] vegaslon plutonian: I have also acheived the same results for flying vehicles [11:44] Lani Global: ok vega, i'll get together with you on that and check it out [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: dadix: I expect that's an offhand comment somebody wrote 5 years ago [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: i dont expect hollow terrain. sounds impossible right now without mesh [11:44] Robert Adams: someday caves... yes :) [11:44] Lani Global: \Yay/ Caves! [11:44] Robert Adams: I've been generalizing APIs when I can to allow that eventual generalization [11:44] Fearghus McMahon: we're all living in a virtual world.....and talking about caves?.......full circle? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: might Freaky post his patch soon? I was actually slowly gettiing to that issue but there's no point duplicating that kind of work [11:45] Mata Hari: I will talk to him as soon as I next see him online [11:45] Lani Global: mesh or sculpty prim covers over terrain trenches have never quite been able to work well for cave builds. [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: ah, I see you wrote that comment just 4 months ago :) [11:45] dadix forever: someone worked to that for the varregion [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: thanks [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: mesh is fine for caves. [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: you used the wrong physics mask then lani [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Lani, why not? [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not always sure which physics thing to set/add to an object on import. [11:46] Lani Global: optically, the matching is difficult due to lighting and other differences between how mesh and terrain are rendered in viewers. [11:47] vegaslon plutonian: hard to mix the textures on a mesh to look like the ground [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: oh ya I see that in video games also [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: would work better if surrounded by rocks or foliage [11:47] Lani Global: terrain textures have different ways of scaling and rendering in viewers than objects. [11:48] Robert Adams has been considering a module that doesn't ship terrain patches but builds textured meshes on the fly to send to the viewer as terrain [11:48] vegaslon plutonian: was just going to ask about that [11:48] dadix forever: so here we go again to talk about voxels on opensim :)  only for terrain [11:48] Cuteulala Artis: looks like neb doesent have a cleaner option for his waypoints [11:48] Cuteulala Artis: Ah HAHAHA... :O [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: heh no i don't [11:48] Lani Global: at present, the only 'seamless' caves are those that are in fully-mesh terrain and don't rely on sim region native terrain. [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: this NPC system i made is pretty crude, but it worked [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: terrain textures repeat every 7 meters I think but it's been a while since I looked [11:49] Cuteulala Artis: how to hide the way points? [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: but they do have randomness in mixing [11:49] Lani Global: terrain textures are variable scaling in the viewer, and can be different depending upon how user has them set. [11:49] Robert Adams: if the simulator made terrain meshes, all viewers would get the same terrain textures [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: Ive not seen scaling there [11:49] Lani Global: object textures scaling can be set fixed by creator [11:50] Robert Adams: for terrain patches, the viewer computes the terrain textures with a random function [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: right now. am already happy when i ever can start building. if i have the mood back to :O [11:50] Cuteulala Artis: neb put in box and click [11:50] NPC Rezzer v2.3 #0: Removing this NPCs from this scene! [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: the whole terrain system in SL is pretty horroble, but meshes dont really work that well either because you cant do splatting [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: you just have to click the button again and it goes away [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i got it [11:51] Cuteulala Artis: violator is gone :o [11:51] Sarah Kline: our terrain texture resolution and method of mixing are the worst [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: you mean LLs [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i hate the LL Terrain [11:51] Sarah Kline: agree Dahlia [11:51] Fearghus McMahon: splatting? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: check out this terrain test I did yesterday [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec [11:51] vegaslon plutonian: lets turn into cloud party and have no ground [11:51] dan banner: lol [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia. worse. soemtimes the mesh terrain is short pahntom for your avatr and you get buirried alive [11:51] Lani Global: let's get rid of void water while we are at it. [11:51] dadix forever: the terrain system must be replaced with a voxel system [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-98phm8jMo&hd=1 [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i made it with the free L3DT [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: vegasion. cloud party have ground to [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: has Specular and Normal mapping [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: splatting is a way to mix textures such that you can do things like have pathways and other features and not need high resolution textuers [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: *textures [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: unless you wear a balloon [11:52] Sarah Kline: we need vertex painting? [11:52] Fearghus McMahon: cloudparty has nothing anymore.....lets not turn into them [11:53] Sarah Kline: CP had many good fresh new features [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: yes nebadon, used l3dt for basic terrain to. thats flat now on the var. but the mountains i need todo inworld because its hard to see in l3dt where track fit and need to come [11:53] Fearghus McMahon: ah thanks Dahlia [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: looks good nebadon. [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, cp was very interesting [11:55] Sarah Kline: what resolution can you get the landscape mesh textures too, given only 8 faces [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: but also interesting that they couldnt' turn it into a sustainable product [11:55] Robert Adams: I'm trying to generalize the terrain classes so someone could implement voxel terrain... just need someone to do it then :) [11:56] dadix forever: robert thanks [11:56] dadix forever: :) [11:56] Fearghus McMahon: maybe they handed out too many free land [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: what would be nice is if there was an external voxel tool that you could create detailed terrains then export it as a mesh [11:57] Lani Global: Justin, we noticed there is a new TOS page on the OpenSim Wiki. [11:57] Sarah Kline: If they had started during all the hype of 2006/7 then maybe they would had success [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: lani: yeah, that's for content. It restates the existing requirement that everything on the wiki is licensed under creative commons [11:57] Robert Adams: of course, ideally I'd like to generalize objects to allow anything to be pim or mesh or voxel or procedural... but that gets into a viewer discussion pretty quickly [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: argh, not more extreernal tools. still not used to blender. not use it much to because its takeing tiome to learn [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: well it would likely just compliment blender, blender does way more than we need [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: thats one of the problems with blender [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its way more than just modeling [11:58] Mata Hari: Bryce + Blender is pretty good [11:58] Sarah Kline: lol its vast [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: there was someone who was working on voxel terrain for opensim and he had modified a viewer to work with it but i dont know how far he got [11:58] dan banner: project hasnt been updated in years [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: well, i forget that nebadon. easy voxel tool would be nice. [11:59] dan banner: and it doesnt compile [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: always one of those guys.. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: points to simcity style i have seen once. just stacking cubes [11:59] dadix forever: https://github.com/N3X15/VoxelSim [11:59] Fearghus McMahon: isn't that the state hifi is in right now Richardys?.....or minecraft? ;) [11:59] dadix forever: here is the code [12:00] dadix forever: voxel-sim [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: well, a bit adddicted right now on minecraft :O [12:00] Mata Hari: would it ever be possible to allow importing of custom armatures or would that necessitate a major change to viewers too? [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: its just simpel and still have evcerything :O [12:00] dadix forever: it has a voxel to polygons model [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: problem gives me soem ideas for opensim to. but cant build [12:00] dadix forever: so no cube there [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: or... i need to change mind [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: personally I think the current terrain looks better than minecraft.... <.< >.> [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: current terrain in OS you mean Dahlia? [12:01] Dahlia Trimble: yes [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: dahlia yes, but the voxel minecraft looks for some reason fine to. [12:01] Fearghus McMahon: then i agree lol [12:01] dan banner: caves would be cool [12:01] Cuteulala Artis: the moment caves are supported the the moment we have caves r us [12:01] Cuteulala Artis: Ah HAHAHA... :O [12:02] Mata Hari: (by custom armature I mean one that has different number of bones and/or different structure...would obviously require animations that conform to that custom armature's bone names) [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to get going. Thanks for the conversation,, folks [12:02] Fearghus McMahon: tc Justin [12:02] dan banner: ya me too [12:02] Sarah Kline: Bye Justin [12:02] Robert Adams: Mata -- major change in everything... viewer and internal datastructures [12:02] Mata Hari: bye Justin [12:02] Fearghus McMahon: and dan too [12:03] Mircea Kitsune: Time for me to head off too. Later [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: see you justin [12:03] Mata Hari: Robert: yeah, was afraid of that....just one of those "if only..." things