Chat log from the meeting on 2008-08-12

[11:01] Aramis Soren is Online

[11:01] BlueWall Slade: WOOT! Neb

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[11:01] Chris D is Online

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[11:02] Bill Humphries: Hurray for Nebadon!

[11:02] sacha Magne: hello clouds :)

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:02] BlueWall Slade: hehe

[11:02] Mark Coffee: nice to see everybody

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: yea pulled it out at last minute

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt think i would get the plaza working for meeting

[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi folks

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: glad i did though

[11:02] BlueWall Slade: hello

[11:02] Digi Fly: hi sache

[11:02] Bill Humphries: Justin, congrats on the gig with Fashion Research.

[11:02] paulie Flomar is Online

[11:02] BlueWall Slade: yeah, best it's run i a good while too

[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks Bill - my life is going to get very interesting now

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: oh yea Justincc

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: check out memory usage

[11:03] Chris D is Offline

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: awesome

[11:03] paulie Flomar is Offline

[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: good work on pulling the sim back up neb

[11:03] Chris D is Online

[11:03] BlueWall Slade: hehe, we'll hvae to have a FRI-day to celebrate

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: yea i kicked this things ass last 24 hours

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: we are on MySQL here now

[11:03] Melanie Milland is Online

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: no more Sqlite on this plaza

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: last remnants are gone

[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, it's making a big difference to mem usage?

[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: just going to take a look for myself

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i think so

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: we are no compiling on the machine too

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: so type Show version

[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that looks much lower

[11:04] Aramis Soren is Offline

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and you will now get a proper response

[11:04] Bill Humphries: /Show version

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: should make debugging

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: actually bill

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: go to Help About

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: in world

[11:04] Teravus Ousley: show version on the console.. or help about.. and look in the simulator section.

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: it will tell you the revision here now

[11:04] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:04] BlueWall Slade: good deal!

[11:05] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: yea i kicked the servers ass

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: we had some mono issues too

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: the server was seeing mono 1.9 only

[11:05] Mark Coffee: 5817 working well

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: even though 1.9.1 was installed

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: so i also fixed that problem

[11:05] Melanie Milland wonders when furniture with sit poses will wind up out here

[11:05] BlueWall Slade: ohh, it was being built off-site and that's didn't include the ../.svn dir

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: actually ckrinke would compile on his home pc

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: from svn

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: then upload

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i got it so we can compile on the machine now

[11:05] BlueWall Slade: just the bin dir though

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: it was failing before

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: now ti works

[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon Izumi: so wp has been completely restored?

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: yes sir

[11:06] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Homers script works awesome

[11:06] Digi Fly: nice place sache

[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: good. That does look very encouraging from a memory standpoint then

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the sqlite2mysql script

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: -6 pending downloads :D

[11:06] BlueWall Slade: justin - how hard would it be to put the version info in teh bin directory?

[11:06] BlueWall Slade: and read it fromthere?

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: there is a faciity for that already

[11:07] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:07] BlueWall Slade: ok

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I think we're reading a file called svn_version in bin/... something like that anyway

[11:07] Hiro Protagonist: rough

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: all i know if you oly upload bbin

[11:07] sacha Magne: yes justin

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it does not work

[11:07] Aramis Soren is Online

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: so it seems

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: is Charles going to be joining us today?

[11:07] sacha Magne: it's used for the show version

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure, he did not say

[11:08] BlueWall Slade: it's groking a file in ../.svn for the info

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: i think if he is not here yet, he might not be

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it should only be used if we can't pull the info from .svn/entries

[11:08] paulie Flomar is Online

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: he might also be operating under the asumption that wright plaza is dead

[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: somebody put it in as an alternative if that file wasn't present

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: last he heard he thinnks its still dead i think

[11:08] BlueWall Slade: ok

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we can get started

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they wanna talk about

[11:09] Teravus Ousley: ic grey people

[11:09] sacha Magne: remote managment ?

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: any pressing topics?

[11:09] Hiro Protagonist: Lets let Whump weigh in if we can

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: sure

[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, grey people have been around for a while

[11:09] BlueWall Slade: hey good work in the last two days!

[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: avatar appearance seems to have rotted a bit.....

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: rebake to fix greyness

[11:09] Tao Takashi: Hi

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: best practice right now

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: is rebake after you log in

[11:09] Teravus Ousley: Hi Tao

[11:09] Hiro Protagonist: hey Tao

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: wont be that way forever

[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Tao

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: but for now besdt to rebake after you login

[11:10] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, everyone!

[11:10] BlueWall Slade: hey

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: nice 17 agents already

[11:10] Hiro Protagonist: did we lose Whump?

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: this is awesome

[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I can't really tell if mne works anyway (but new laptop soon!). Admittedly that might make no difference

[11:10] Teravus Ousley wonders if Whump may come in later with Whump Linden_External

[11:10] PocoLoco Darwin: Hello everyone, is this the weekly meeting?

[11:11] Melanie Milland: well, with the latest changes, anothe rgant logging it causes much less of a hit on sim resoruces

[11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: at least one session has abnormally terminated

[11:11] Hiro Protagonist: it is Poco

[11:11] Melanie Milland: i also made each agent instance about 250KByte smaller

[11:11] Hiro Protagonist: mine did but I came back after several failed attempts

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: yea the patches are great melanie so far

[11:11] Melanie Milland: another agent*

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: what about ghosts

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: right now thats my biggest concern

[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have any clues?

[11:11] Hiro Protagonist: There's Bill over there, sitting on the couch with Digi

[11:11] Teravus Ousley: guels...

[11:11] Melanie Milland: on my supermegaprimmy rergion, fixing that has exposed a number of other issues

[11:12] Hiro Protagonist: sdague gave me some clues about the ghosts

[11:12] Hiro Protagonist: but anything I say is second hand information

[11:12] Melanie Milland: specifically inventory not loadign beyond 10K prims

[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I think we're going to need automated stress tests soon

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[11:12] Hiro Protagonist: +1 Justin

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we can use Load-oar

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: as part of that ?

[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i could make up some load tests

[11:12] Teravus Ousley: and start writing complete unit tests?

[11:12] Hiro Protagonist: we need some procedural tests

[11:12] Teravus Ousley: please?

[11:13] Digi Fly: if it works

[11:13] Hiro Protagonist: +1 Teravus

[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: to be honest, I think so

[11:13] BlueWall Slade: the pygop stuff might be useful too??

[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's going to be a lot of work to separate out components to test properly though, I suspect

[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be nice to have the tests automatically run and the results autobotted to the irc channel

[11:13] paulie Flomar: Is anyone else having trouble with a multi-region setup (grid mode)? I can only access one of my four regions here on OSGrid with latest trunk.

[11:14] Melanie Milland: none i am aware of, unless it's osgrid-specific

[11:14] BlueWall Slade: no, has been good for mine

[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: paulie: there is a mantis at the moment about someone who has trouble starting more than one region

[11:14] Hiro Protagonist: I run all my regions in individual instances

[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: 1920 I think

[11:14] Melanie Milland: check your udp setups?

[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: mine seem fine too

[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ok whump is relogging

[11:14] Hiro Protagonist: surprisingly, it is quite a bit more memory efficient

[11:14] paulie Flomar: thx, JCC. will check..

[11:14] Digi Fly: no problems, check port numbers

[11:15] Melanie Milland: that case was resolved, iirc

[11:15] Melanie Milland: he said in irc he got it to run

[11:15] paulie Flomar: my setup hasnt changed. thats whats weird.

[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: he should update mantis then

[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: so, next topic?

[11:16] Digi Fly: chris you need rebake

[11:16] Teravus Ousley: Bill is still sitting there.. even though.. his session 'should' have timed out by now....

[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: oh great, ew're seeing user profile problems again

[11:16] Hiro Protagonist: yeah, unfortunately

[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yea i would say that and ghosts

[11:17] Hiro Protagonist: and all the instability that implies

[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: are 2 really pressing issues

[11:17] Digi Fly: agree. i see profile problems too

[11:17] Hiro Protagonist: here's what sdague told me about ghosts

[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, I wonder if these are network issues - there seem to be timeouts on both ends

[11:17] Hiro Protagonist: he said there are two in-,memory tables

[11:17] Teravus Ousley: hmm, looks like some modifications to the UDPServer..

[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[11:17] Hiro Protagonist: I think one each for child and main agent

[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: about the timeouts

[11:18] Hiro Protagonist: he says the correct one is used at login

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: people have reported sims that run for extended periods

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: are the problem

[11:18] Hiro Protagonist: but not logout

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: usually a restart fixes it

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: leads me to beleive the mysql or db connection is timing out

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: in some fashion

[11:18] Hiro Protagonist: he also said it has an impact on the stability of inventory

[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: that shouldn't happen anymore

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: yea shouldnt

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but thats what appears is happening

[11:18] Melanie Milland: at least the mysql connector is prevented from timing out

[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I doubt it

[11:18] paulie Flomar: big map seems broken. I'll stay away from it...

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be long running sims

[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: that are most effected

[11:19] Melanie Milland: there are two tables for many things

[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: generally after 24 hours i have trouble access a sim

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: how long are we talking about?

[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: it requires it be restarted

[11:19] Melanie Milland: i saw that last night/this morning

[11:19] BlueWall Slade: long running?

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: I take it this isn't 24 hours completely idle?

[11:19] Melanie Milland: sim was fine, a day later, boom

[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: no

[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: probably not

[11:19] Teravus Ousley: hmm, another thing.. the estate tools are still far more limited then I designed.

[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: most of my estimates are based on Zaius plaza

[11:20] Hiro Protagonist: hmmmm I think I know what yall are talking aboutI've been seeing it to

[11:20] Hiro Protagonist: a 'scoket not connected' exception

[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon Izumi: gonna need log files for the entire period

[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: attached to a mantis somehow

[11:20] Teravus Ousley: I previously.. (like 1000 revisions ago) could kick a user off the simulator as an estate manager.

[11:20] Melanie Milland: i get web request timeouts in a rest request for an asset

[11:20] Hiro Protagonist: dont we all LOL

[11:20] Hiro Protagonist: I dont think REST is 100% yet Mel

[11:21] Melanie Milland: ter, that part wasn't changed

[11:21] Melanie Milland: at least not by me

[11:21] Hiro Protagonist: even for purposes of debuggin

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i have not tested that recently

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: the kick users

[11:21] Hiro Protagonist: nor I

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ive come accustomed to console

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: typing kickuser nebadon izumi

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: etc..

[11:21] Hiro Protagonist: plus, the PN sulked off over the horizon

[11:21] Teravus Ousley: well, right now, Plaza Builder could kick bill's presence

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ah

[11:21] BlueWall Slade: whump is having trouble getting in

[11:21] Hiro Protagonist: so is dahlia

[11:22] Aramis Soren: sacha too

[11:22] Melanie Milland: for this client, estate tools is designed to send the offending avie home

[11:22] Melanie Milland: kicking them off the grid is in god tools

[11:22] Hiro Protagonist: I'll check the user server console

[11:22] Melanie Milland: both should work

[11:22] Teravus Ousley notes that LLClient.. seems to be borked

[11:22] Digi Fly: have a TP problem to my sim with other avatar

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: well i kicked him on console

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: yet he remains

[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: borked as in doesn't compile?

[11:22] Teravus Ousley: as in.. is not working correctly on many layers

[11:22] Hiro Protagonist: xmlrpc queries are failling on the region

[11:22] Hiro Protagonist: user server looks good

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: sounds like people cant access this sim anymore

[11:23] Aramis Soren: just got Region Going Down balloon message

[11:23] Digi Fly: \could tp to this region anyway with that avatar

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so things are not as peachy as they seem

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: the user server requests are timing out

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: but why why why

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[11:23] Melanie Milland: yes. i've been seing that, too

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: user server is there - the request is being made

[11:23] Hiro Protagonist: it's awake

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yet it doesn't go through

[11:24] Teravus Ousley: packets are out of order.. timeouts are not occurring in the client.. and who knows what else. That's a complicated bit of code there.

[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. That would be a part which could really do with unit testing....

[11:24] Hiro Protagonist: yeah I'm getting spammed with OOO packets

[11:24] Melanie Milland: any resend is out of order by definition

[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: which would give us some specification of how the damn thing is supposed to work

[11:24] Melanie Milland: so there will never be zero out of order ones

[11:24] Hiro Protagonist: dahlia says 'hi'

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: seriously though

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: memory usage here is awesome

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: still have not hit swap

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: this is a 1st

[11:25] Melanie Milland: yes. each agent instance is now about 200Kbtes smaller

[11:25] Digi Fly: hi dahlia

[11:25] Strawberry Fride: excellent work :)

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think we ever had 20 users here and did not hit swap memory before today

[11:25] paulie Flomar: the switch to MySQL helped?

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: i think it was a 1-2 punch

[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: this login issue is a real problem though

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: mysql + mels fixes

[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: it must have been around for a month

[11:26] Hiro Protagonist: yeah and fixing other things seems to be exacerbating the login thing

[11:26] Hiro Protagonist: which is actually a good thing

[11:26] Melanie Milland: i am going to introduce a delay for the start of prim sending

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: as anyone looked much at the user server of late?

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: it's probably made the problem clearer

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: maybe it needs some love and attention?

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I feel it's probably the region side

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: k

[11:26] Melanie Milland: probably going to fire an event fron the network top the sim saying "give me some prims" when the link is idle#

[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: the user server is a simple bit of code

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: on the topic of test suite

[11:27] Hiro Protagonist: dahlia reports she is also having problems getting into deepthink

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: if we could make a bot that acts like a real avatar that would be great

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: like pulls inventory

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: bakes appaearnce

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: the whole shebang

[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: what do you think would be the best course of action about possible LLClientView regressions?

[11:28] Hiro Protagonist: +1

[11:28] Teravus Ousley: fix em.

[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: ha ha ha ha

[11:28] Hiro Protagonist: he did it for the lulz

[11:28] Melanie Milland: lol

[11:28] Teravus Ousley: Check the timer that times avatar out. Check the packet sequencer.

[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: Melanie: do you think there are bugs in the protocol stack?

[11:29] Teravus Ousley: .. check the ping inget check

[11:30] Melanie Milland: i think there still might be. i have addressed packet loss (conclusively) and pachet ordering (inconclusively)

[11:30] Hiro Protagonist: dahlia was able to log in at fermi but crashed when she approached WP

[11:30] Melanie Milland: we are sending too many resends

[11:30] Digi Fly: i finaly loged in at my own region. but still ghost.

[11:30] Melanie Milland: i will probably implement automatic servside throttling in the next fit of madness

[11:30] Hiro Protagonist: go Mel :D

[11:31] Teravus Ousley: there is server side throtting..

[11:31] Hiro Protagonist: I like yer kind o madness :D

[11:31] Digi Fly: WP is not possible to reach

[11:31] Melanie Milland: automatic, ter

[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: Melanie Milland: how easy would it be to put in tests to stop regressions and make it clearer what our assumptions about the client stack behaviour are?

[11:31] Melanie Milland: e.g. adaptive, semipredictive

[11:31] Melanie Milland: that is not a job i would care to take on. it would tie me up for several months.

[11:31] Melanie Milland: answer enoguh?

[11:31] Hiro Protagonist: ahhhh, she was trying to teleport

[11:31] Hiro Protagonist: she's trying flying now

[11:32] Teravus Ousley: might help a bit by setting the client throttles..

[11:32] Teravus Ousley: .. setting them predictively ..

[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: well, if we're just going to see subtle failures because of changes then we might have to

[11:32] Melanie Milland: the idea is to average resends per client and force throttle to below a certain threshold

[11:32] Melanie Milland: with a bit of hysteresis, so it keeps recentering

[11:32] Melanie Milland: on the optimum

[11:32] paulie Flomar is Offline

[11:33] Melanie Milland: also i see very bursty transmission behavior

[11:33] Melanie Milland: i believe the final transmission stage needs a thread

[11:33] Melanie Milland: it seems to be held up in locks

[11:33] Teravus Ousley: *nods*. between the client doing that and the sim doing that.. we could get a more stable connection.

[11:34] Hiro Protagonist digests

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:34] Teravus Ousley: well.. I think it'll be a big rewrite to make a thread for that.. since for the blockingqueue to work, it requires it to take both incoming and outgoing packets.

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[11:35] Hiro Protagonist: is that a show stopper Ter?

[11:35] Melanie Milland: for the BQ to work in the way it does now

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: something to note

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: some clues here

[11:35] Melanie Milland: but there are other ways

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: the dots on the minimap

[11:35] Melanie Milland: i once started to refactor

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: dont = number of avatars

[11:35] Teravus Ousley: as I said, a big rewrite :D

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: and i also dont think the agent count is accurate

[11:35] Melanie Milland: but that was before core

[11:35] Melanie Milland: and i quickly saw that it would never get in

[11:35] BlueWall Slade: test

[11:35] Melanie Milland: so i abandoned it

[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i see alot of red neighbors now too

[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its like comms to region are dead now

[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: I see only one redmap to the west

[11:36] Teravus Ousley: the blockingqueue is honestly, pretty nasty.. and we all want to remove it.. but only for something /better/ and we've determined that threadpools are definately not better for this use case

[11:36] Digi Fly: i have never seen red regions. :( and yes inventory dont load now from my region

[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, we seem to have comms failure in that direction

[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i see 3 red regions

[11:37] Melanie Milland: why do you consider it nasty?

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: the avatar count is way off though

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: big time

[11:37] Melanie Milland: that _type_ of object is the right one for the job

[11:37] Teravus Ousley: because it encourages the 'burst'

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i count 14

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: stats reads 20

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: minimap reads like 8

[11:37] Melanie Milland: it just needs to be leveraged in another way

[11:37] Aramis Soren: my avatar seems to be slowly inching to my left...

[11:37] Hiro Protagonist: I see one red

[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: root agents dropping off aren't terminating properly I imagine

[11:38] Teravus Ousley: yep. That normally gets initiated in LLClientView

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: do we need to implement some kind of time out mechanism

[11:38] Teravus Ousley: .. based on the number of packets without inguts

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: for people who crash?

[11:38] Melanie Milland: and i agree threadpools are not the right way - but i would like to her you reasoning for this

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ive seen crashed people stay in indefinatly

[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: of the other people who have seen user profile filures - are these on regions that are heavily trafficked?

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ive seen myself stay logged into Zaius plaza for over 24 hours

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and note even realize

[11:39] Teravus Ousley: because we've seen a threadpool version, and it consistently used 15% more CPU to accomplish the same task

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: fairly high trafficked be a small number of rezzies, yes

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: *by a small number

[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon Izumi: are we still using session_lookup = true on osgrid?

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:39] Melanie Milland: yes. there are more reasons for a thread pool to be a bad idea

[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon Izumi: can we switch this off until next Tuesday?

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: sure can

[11:40] Melanie Milland: basically, there could be one static thread servicing all clients

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i will do so after the meeting

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: infact

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i will update UGAIM also

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: then restart with it off

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: ckrinke says he cant hit the login page

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: I have to wonder if any of this is DNS related

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: yea this region is dead to new users

[11:40] Melanie Milland: IMHO, session_lookup is a failure as it is implemented now

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: we could all go onto a neighbouring region and reboot wp

[11:40] Digi Fly: 21 main agents now

[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ok Melanie glad to hear your opinion

[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: or just close it down and relog

[11:41] Teravus Ousley: haha, oh yeah.. and the UDPserver just died. :P

[11:41] Aramis Soren: and 5 dots on minimap

[11:41] Melanie Milland: unless it gets a mechanism to recover from a grid server restart

[11:41] Melanie Milland: and a cache for session lookups

[11:41] Melanie Milland: it won't perform well enough to be usable, or be resilient enough

[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: there is a cache

[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: hey

[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: none of this stuff is handled well yet

[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: or we could try travelling to the border of UCI where Whump is

[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i cant reach the website anymore

[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i think this is a DNS issue guys

[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: I'm almost convinced it is

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i think our DNS is hosed again

[11:42] Digi Fly: !!!osg website works fine here

[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: movement is really fubbery

[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: rubbery even

[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: stats seem fine though

[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: we're not maxing out cpu......

[11:42] Digi Fly: map view from website dont work

[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, mono usage has leapt up

[11:42] Teravus Ousley: I like 'fubbery', myself

[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: 1.1 gb

[11:43] Melanie Milland: this is what i ahve observed on my regions as well

[11:43] Aramis Soren:  I'm in as whump linden on UCI  wow, there's a void where Wright Plaza should be.

[11:43] Melanie Milland: if you observe the packets

[11:43] Melanie Milland: you see that it gets fubbery when the sending stops

[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: the world is breaking up

[11:43] Aramis Soren: osgrid page not coming in here

[11:43] Melanie Milland: then aburst of resends, and all is nonfubbery again

[11:43] PocoLoco Darwin: can't move hardly at all... and gtg RL work is calling >:

[11:44] Teravus Ousley: It's some kind of a lock

[11:44] Melanie Milland: yes. one of the many we lost the key to

[11:44] Aramis Soren: i see 3 avs at uci border 2 now

[11:44] Digi Fly: photo gallery etc works fine.

[11:44] Teravus Ousley: .. additionally the reason Wright Plaza looks like a blank space is because it's UDP server is not accepting any connections

[11:44] BlueWall Slade: whump, dahila, homer

[11:44] Melanie Milland: incidentally

[11:44] Strawberry Fride: I gotta dash anyway, catch you folks later :)

[11:45] Melanie Milland: the interest list code for child agents' regions was calculating view distance from the absolute position of the child agent

[11:45] Digi Fly: bye strawberry

[11:45] Melanie Milland: which is always the spawn point

[11:45] BlueWall Slade: see ya

[11:45] Melanie Milland: i removed that

[11:45] Melanie Milland: pending a fix to use the camera world position instead

[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: why is this happening - we were fine a month ago

[11:45] Teravus Ousley: ..... good luck. That code is tricky..

[11:45] Melanie Milland: i know

[11:46] Digi Fly: !!other grids must have the same problems. right ?

[11:46] Teravus Ousley: I wrote it :D

[11:46] Melanie Milland: but i think i have a rep for handling hot-to-the-touch code

[11:47] Teravus Ousley: well, ensure that you warn people before the commit that the update is extremely experimental. That way we get less of a bad rep

[11:47] Teravus Ousley: I wrote that section of code.. and, I'd warn people if I changed it.. with an experimental commit message.

[11:48] Melanie Milland: which particular section now?

[11:48] Teravus Ousley: the intrest list for child agents

[11:48] Melanie Milland: hrm

[11:48] Melanie Milland: consider yourself warned

[11:48] Melanie Milland: it' doesn't exist anymore in that form

[11:48] Teravus Ousley: in the commit message :D

[11:48] Melanie Milland: at all

[11:48] Melanie Milland: can't change that after the fact

[11:49] Melanie Milland: but i'll add a hint on the next change

[11:49] Teravus Ousley: Yes, that, the UDP server.. anything grid comms.. LLClientView.. prim linking.. most physics changes.. etc.. require a warning.. haha

[11:49] Melanie Milland: which is a partially done job. but with excellent results. *smiles a cheshire cat smile*

[11:49] Melanie Milland: hrm.

[11:50] Melanie Milland has rewritten the udp packet handler. rewritten linking.

[11:50] Melanie Milland: look at linking.

[11:50] Melanie Milland: it's changed

[11:50] Teravus Ousley: ah, I see.. you already committed it..

[11:50] Melanie Milland: it was part of the rework of initial prim sending

[11:50] Teravus Ousley: I'm scared

[11:50] Melanie Milland: it now does the right thing in all cases

[11:50] Aramis Soren: going to relay whump's OGPB status report from IRC for him

[11:51] Melanie Milland: only thing that is not yet supported is if you "edit linked parts" select several prims from multiple link set, and one of the prims the root prim of one of the link sets, then unlink

[11:51] Melanie Milland: it will leave the root prim linked

[11:51] Melanie Milland: but partial unlinnks and unlnks of child prims from multiple link sets work

[11:51] Teravus Ousley: I suppose it's better then a mess

[11:51] Teravus Ousley: :D

[11:51] Melanie Milland: also unlinking the root prim from a link set works

[11:51] Teravus Ousley: that's one way to ensure the root prim gets unlinked last :D

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: just so you guys know

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: the rest of the grid is down

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: no one can log in anymore

[11:52] Melanie Milland: no. unlinking the rrot prim while leaving the rest intact

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: our DNS is totally dead

[11:52] Digi Fly: inventory still dont load on my region

[11:52] Melanie Milland: that recalcs all the rotations/offsets for the new root prim

[11:52] Aramis Soren:  Anyway, we have 21 regions running OpenSim with the OGP patch, and over 40 SL residents have earned their gridnaut bears by logging into the agent domain on our preview grid and teleporting among the OpenSim regions and our regions with OGP enabled.

[11:52] Hiro Protagonist: I dont quite know how it is that the region even continues to function LOL

[11:53] Teravus Ousley: try/catch

[11:53] Teravus Ousley: *that's a joke*

[11:53] Hiro Protagonist: oh, sorry ROFL

[11:53] Melanie Milland: well, i find that too many places a catch without a message masks issues now

[11:53] Hiro Protagonist: You had me going there actually

[11:53] Aramis Soren:  18 issues have been filed, 4 closed, and we expect to close another two issues on the Agent Domain and Region Side in the next day or two.

[11:53] Hiro Protagonist: I was about to *Nods*

[11:54] Teravus Ousley: well lets try something..

[11:54] Teravus Ousley: If you're here, say, "pong"

[11:54] Melanie Milland: pong

[11:54] Mark Coffee: pong

[11:54] BlueWall Slade: pog

[11:54] BlueWall Slade: lol - pong

[11:54] Melanie Milland pouts "you never said ping"

[11:54] Hiro Protagonist: pong

[11:54] Digi Fly: pang

[11:54] Hiro Protagonist broadcast-pings Mel

[11:55] Teravus Ousley: 6

[11:55] Astro Biology: pong

[11:55] Teravus Ousley: oops, 7

[11:55] Melanie Milland: pong reply: 1024 packets, TTL 500ms, packet loss 0%

[11:55] Digi Fly: pong

[11:55] Hiro Protagonist: LOL

[11:55] Aramis Soren: pong

[11:56] Teravus Ousley: well, probably first thing on the list to do.. is reinstate the ingut counter that times out dead avatar.

[11:56] Aramis Soren:  Some of those issues are copied over from the OpenSim forge site so we'll be able to close those as well. The main issue we're running into on the OpenSim side is cleaning up presence after an agent teleports away. There are three related issues on the Forge site that need some love right now, if anyone is interested in looking at them.

[11:56] Aramis Soren:  Tomorrow at my office hours, I'd like to get people's thoughts on the next steps for the Beta program, as we're going to be having an internal discussion on where to go next as well.

[11:57] Melanie Milland: currently. we are not using ping check

[11:57] Melanie Milland: it is handled in the stack to the degree needed to keep the client happy

[11:57] Melanie Milland: i would suggest to grab it there

[11:57] Teravus Ousley: It's not in the big packet case.. but it's low level handled in LLClientView

[11:57] Melanie Milland: the fix is trivial

[11:57] Melanie Milland: we just neeed to agree on a time out

[11:57] Melanie Milland: 60s?

[11:57] Teravus Ousley: there's already one there

[11:57] Melanie Milland: not there

[11:57] Teravus Ousley: .. it's just not working right now

[11:58] Melanie Milland: not on pingcheck

[11:58] Melanie Milland: no

[11:58] Teravus Ousley: Yes, there is

[11:58] Melanie Milland: i rewrote that code from scratch

[11:58] Teravus Ousley: look deeper

[11:58] Melanie Milland: tossed the broken stuf out

[11:58] Aramis Soren:  But the enthusiasm of the OpenSim and Second Life participants has been great, and I cannot thank these folks enough.

[11:58] Teravus Ousley: ah... well.. then I can't comment anymore

[11:58] Melanie Milland: it's not even in clientview anymore

[11:58] Teravus Ousley: I'd suggest when rewriting something like that.. that you implement what people expect...

[11:59] Teravus Ousley: .. that way we don't get into regressions like this.

[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys

[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: well the hour is up

[11:59] Aramis Soren:  going back to the OS patch related issues, Zha had delegated Dr. Scofield to mind the store while she's away, so if you are interested in looking at any of those presence issues, please contact him and me.

[11:59] Melanie Milland: there was a check in processinpacket

[11:59] Melanie Milland: that i didn't touch, iirc

[11:59] Melanie Milland: there never was one on pingcheck

[11:59] Aramis Soren:  That's my report.

[11:59] Teravus Ousley: alternatively, you could put your changes in a separate plugin, so that we can keep one stable

[12:00] Melanie Milland: this is more stable than what was there

[12:00] Melanie Milland: it can't be pluginned without duplicating the client vire

[12:00] Melanie Milland: view

[12:00] Aramis Soren: later all

[12:00] Teravus Ousley: I don't know.. some would disagree with you that this is currently more stable.

[12:00] Aramis Soren is Offline

[12:00] Melanie Milland: i'm actually making my changes so that the client view becomes truly modular

[12:01] Melanie Milland: the fixes i did, which can be proven, unmasked a host of other issues

[12:01] Teravus Ousley: a few more tweaks, and it'll be parhaps.

[12:01] Melanie Milland: and the udpserver wasn't me

[12:01] Melanie Milland: never touched that

[12:01] Melanie Milland: but i saw the patch go in

[12:01] Melanie Milland: don't remember whose

[12:01] Teravus Ousley: Right, that was lbsa

[12:02] Melanie Milland: he wanted to fix just this stuff we see here

[12:02] Melanie Milland: if i had done it, there would be a "shovel" thread that just pushes data into a marshaller elsewhere

[12:02] Teravus Ousley: he wanted to make the UDPServer code more pretty

[12:02] Melanie Milland: running a tight little lean udp receive loop

[12:02] Teravus Ousley: my comment and error handler had been copy and pasted over and over again..

[12:03] Melanie Milland: so i could be positive thet it would never failt to call BeginReceiveFrom

[12:03] Melanie Milland: networking is one of my specializations, btw

[12:03] Melanie Milland: networking, data handling, and close to the metal stuff

[12:04] Teravus Ousley: Cool. Mine is managing trees of data.. data mining, and compensation plans.

[12:04] Melanie Milland: well, we seem to intersect at the database end then

[12:04] Melanie Milland: i'm more supply side

[12:04] Teravus Ousley: :D

[12:04] Melanie Milland: you're doing the consumers

[12:05] The world is about to blow up. Please vacate the premises

[12:05] Teravus Ousley: haha

[12:05] BlueWall Slade: lol

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: haha ok guys

[12:05] Hiro Protagonist: Too Late LOL

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: time to go

[12:05] BlueWall Slade: that's our queue

[12:05] Teravus Ousley: The captain goes down with the ship?

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: justin wants access

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol