Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-19

Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-19


[09:58] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[10:01] Maria Korolov is Offline

[10:01] Aramis Soren: check 1 2

[10:01] Dave Coyle: hi aramis

[10:01] Dave Coyle: and everyone

[10:01] Aramis Soren: hi all

[10:02] Brent Seidel: Good morning Dave and Aramis

[10:02] Kitto Flora: I ok, How,r you?

[10:02] Brent Seidel: and everyone else

[10:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi kitto

[10:02] Aramis Soren: cool i can hear today at least ter

[10:02] Teravus Ousley: :)

[10:03] Maria Korolov is Online

[10:03] Tumble Stone: hi all

[10:03] Richardus Raymaker: can we expect a new svn ? or a very new one ?

[10:03] Charles Krinke: Lets start and see if there are any opinions for "recommended" for the week.

[10:03] Monk Zymurgy: hi all

[10:03] Aramis Soren: 5555 :)

[10:03] Charles Krinke: I believe Nebadon just put r9602 on the osgrid.org web site and this region is running r9602 so is trhgt about at head.

[10:04] Richardus Raymaker: im stilll at 9498 so everything above is for other to replky

[10:04] Ideia Boa: hey all again

[10:04] Dave Coyle: what was last week's recommended? 9395?

[10:04] Richardus Raymaker: just readed head need new ini

[10:04] Charles Krinke: I am at r9573 withmy personal regions and had trouble updating to r9600, but others tell methey are successful.

[10:04] Richardus Raymaker: 9489

[10:05] Richardus Raymaker: from 9395 to 9489+ gave no problem here

[10:05] Starky Rubble: the last several revs tested good for me other than the known 601 issue

[10:05] Aramis Soren: what's 601?

[10:06] Starky Rubble: 9601

[10:06] Aramis Soren: ok

[10:06] Richardus Raymaker: do we not junp to high now. last week we jumped to low

[10:06] Teravus Ousley: My update to trunk was a bit bumpy... if you are a tester and are testing a revision after yesterday morning. Pay close attention to the opensim.ini.example Things have changed there

[10:06] Richardus Raymaker: hi tx

[10:06] Aramis Soren: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Services_and_Service_Connectors_Configuration

[10:07] tx Oh: does opensim break compatibility with mono compilers of common linux repositories?

[10:07] Starky Rubble: thats one section...

[10:07] Charles Krinke: I understand Diva will be updating that page more soon

[10:07] Charles Krinke: I think it is fair to say a modern mono later then most common linux repositories is helpful.

[10:07] Dave Coyle: tx: old versions of mono (1.2.6) will likely be left behind.

[10:08] Dave Coyle: if they haven't been already

[10:08] Charles Krinke: mono-2.0.1 through mono-2.5 works pretty well.

[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: whats best version to start with, i think mono 2.4 is ok. below that im in doubt

[10:08] Brent Seidel: I'm running mono 2.4 with SVN 9479 at home, and it seems to work ok.

[10:08] Charles Krinke: mono-2.4 or mono-2.5, I would say

[10:08] tx Oh: i think their are a lot of people with rented vps who are not able to compile mono svn heads

[10:08] Monk Zymurgy: does mono 2.1 work still?

[10:09] Dave Coyle: mono 2.0.1 out-of-the-box with ubuntu jaunty works ok for me.

[10:09] Richardus Raymaker: thats then because lack of knowledge/ to complex

[10:09] Monk Zymurgy: i though it need 2.2+

[10:09] Charles Krinke: I think so. But, mono-1.2.6 probably does not work.

[10:09] Aramis Soren: 1.9.1 still works with 9395, gets cpu creep tho but does work

[10:10] Charles Krinke: Ok, do we advance "recommended" past r9489 or leave it at r9489. Choices are 9489, 9573, 9602, other.

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: the next upgrade will be a painfull one :O

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: better go at leats to 9498

[10:11] Richardus Raymaker: still not happy with the 9489 regions

[10:11] tx Oh: for past 9561 their must be a hint for the .ini upgrade

[10:11] Charles Krinke: Any objections to r9573?

[10:11] Richardus Raymaker: that one need a new ini to ?

[10:11] Charles Krinke: or, should we go 9561?

[10:12] Charles Krinke: I thin 9561 is the last tht need .ini hanges

[10:12] M1sha Dallin: Better to go past the ini problems sooner rather than later

[10:12] Aramis Soren: not if they aren't finished

[10:12] Charles Krinke: how about 9561, which is the last pre-ini changes and we see how the 96xx goes next week.

[10:12] Dave Coyle: sounds good to me

[10:12] tx Oh: yepp

[10:12] Penny Lane: Just for info, Gentoo stable has mono at 2.0.1-r1, while Gentoo unstable/test is at 2.4-r3. So 2.5 not even in the unstable picture, from Portage.

[10:13] Brent Seidel: Has the .ini stabilized or are more changes expected?

[10:13] Dave Coyle: more changes

[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: then stay below the changed ini

[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: much work to change inio here

[10:14] Charles Krinke: Ok. Moving on. "What are the things that developers wish to ask, say or pontificate?"

[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: so recommended is 9561 ?

[10:14] Charles Krinke: Yes, unless someone wishes to veo

[10:15] Charles Krinke: veto

[10:15] tx Oh: i think its a wise decission

[10:15] Charles Krinke: I'll see if I can get the word out that r9561 is "recommended" fo the next week.

[10:16] Charles Krinke: Teravus, or any other dev here. Anything to bring up before I open up tester questions?

[10:17] Teravus Ousley: no. Though, feed me vehicle scripts that demonstrate weird uses of the LSL Vehicle API

[10:17] tx Oh: :-)

[10:18] Kitto Flora: Any recent chages to the 2nd sit on vehicle problem, Teravus?

[10:18] Teravus Ousley: not yet

[10:18] Teravus Ousley: discussing the best way to approach it

[10:19] Brent Seidel: I added the recommended version for this week to the download page on the wiki.

[10:19] Kitto Flora: I found a suspicious line, but presently cannot make any vehicle work :(

[10:19] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9602 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)

Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True

[10:19] Charles Krinke: I was able to make Jeff Heaton's boat.lsl script work with copy/paste andcomment of llSetVehicleFlags

[10:19] Maria Korolov is Offline

[10:19] Charles Krinke: Pg 147 of his Scripting boo

[10:20] Charles Krinke: book

[10:20] Richardus Raymaker: to bad i dont have his book

[10:20] Teravus Ousley: don't forget to set the material to glass for things like sleds or cars.

[10:21] Charles Krinke: I could copy/paste his superCar.lsl script on a maingrid sandox and it worked fine, but did no move on our Sandbo Plaza

[10:21] BlueWall Slade: it was tossing errors on the console

[10:22] BlueWall Slade: I was tring to take a copy, then delete it. But, deleted it w/o getting a copy.

[10:22] Charles Krinke: not suprising. But,... I think it is a reasnable test script. I'll e-mail yu some *stuff* ater, Teavus

[10:23] Charles Krinke: I'll see if I can send it to you BlueWall

[10:23] BlueWall Slade: thanks

[10:23] Charles Krinke: Does everyone here have at least a passing acquaintance with the new OpenSim.ini settings?

[10:24] BlueWall Slade: Si

[10:24] M1sha Dallin: yep

[10:24] Brent Seidel: passing

[10:24] Kitto Flora: Not anything about recent changes

[10:24] Monk Zymurgy: not yet

[10:24] Charles Krinke: I think pasting this in #opensim & #osgrid will help us: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Services_and_Service_Connectors_Configuration

[10:24] Aramil Ewing: the asset url on network must be commented no?

[10:24] Charles Krinke: There are half a dozen changes

[10:25] Dave Coyle: aramil: depends on if the asset server is local or remote.

[10:25] Charles Krinke: This is the documentation

[10:26] Zauber Paracelsus: IS there a meeting going on?

[10:26] OtakuMegane Desu: Lol

[10:26] Aramil Ewing: yes dave remote

[10:26] Aramil Ewing: hi blue, and hi everyone

[10:26] Dave Coyle: aramil: then, yes, it needs to be uncommented and set appropriately

[10:26] BlueWall Slade: Hi Ara

[10:27] Charles Krinke: Yes. We hold "Office Hour" here each Tuesday at this time

[10:27] Zauber Paracelsus: Ah

[10:27] Charles Krinke: Open Question Time.

[10:27] Charles Krinke: Open Answer Time, too.

[10:28] Brent Seidel: Questions are easier.

[10:28] Dave Coyle: not a question, but a comment... i'm pushing to get opensim included in the next ubuntu release, which means i need to get them a package in the next few weeks...

[10:28] Dave Coyle: so a new tagged release would be welcome.

[10:28] Aramil Ewing: is mail to prim in the plans?

[10:29] Charles Krinke: Dave. I also am pushing for a new tagged release, sogood point

[10:29] Aramil Ewing: and is safe to upgarde the ugaim to 9602?

[10:29] Richardus Raymaker: nobody use voice. after the first words its so quite now for a long time

[10:29] Charles Krinke: Aramil: We have implemented some of te LSL Http Server funtions and need patches for the rest.

[10:29] Richardus Raymaker: ok. its still working

[10:29] Charles Krinke: Voice works, Teravus

[10:30] Dave Coyle: charles: i just checked the schedule... i'll have to give them something on june 1. it's be great if we had 0.6.5 by then.

[10:30] Richardus Raymaker: missed that haarumppf

[10:30] Charles Krinke: There are 22 LSL functions left to implement, but llRequestURL, llReleaseURL and llRequesSecureURL are implemented.

[10:31] Charles Krinke: missing for email to a prim are: llGetFreeURLs, llGetHTTPHeader, llHTTPResponse

[10:31] Charles Krinke: We need patches from the community for the 22 missing LSL functions

[10:32] Charles Krinke: The can all befound by searching for the string "NotImplemented" in LSL_Api.cs

[10:32] tx Oh: :-)

[10:32] Aramil Ewing: cool

[10:32] Biribi Bagration is Online

[10:33] Charles Krinke:

[10:33] Aramil Ewing: and what about to upgrade the ugaim to 9602?

[10:34] Charles Krinke: Ok, complaints, suggestions, revolutionary plans, recall of osgrid admins or core developers?

[10:34] tx Oh: i tried to make new gestures and both, linden and hippo client crash when i save gestures

[10:34] PocoLoco Darwin: roger that on 9600+ releases, Twitter feed says not to advance past 9561-breakages

[10:34] Charles Krinke: Can others confirm gesture save crashes the client?

[10:34] Strawberry Fride: ditto on new tag - 0.6.4 had physics breakages so had to push forward our grid to something less crashy :)

[10:35] Charles Krinke: If we an confirm that gesture save crashes the client with a second tester and it is repeatable, we have a good Mantis.

[10:35] Dave Coyle: gesture save crash... would be curious if 9602 fixes that.

[10:35] Aramil Ewing: in my first startup in 9602 it was crashing loading maptiles with several objects but is running nice seem so

[10:35] Charles Krinke: Perhaps test in the Sandbox on this plaza

[10:36] Penny Lane: Not a question, but information: Charles and Mystical and a few others might be interested: Lindens have just created another IETF mailing list, "OGPX". Presumably this means that they've finally realized that "MMOX" was a bad idea if they really only wanted OGP. Or possibly, IETF actually said "No" to allowing an official IETF MMOX workgroup, given that the MMOX list is currently dead of activity. https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogpx

[10:36] tx Oh: i will investigate and mantis if it happens all the time

[10:37] Teravus Ousley: I noticed that actually. I'm currently arguing with my other personality about if I think it's worth it to consider joining.

[10:37] Charles Krinke: Thanks, Penny. Personaly my plate is full with OpenSim and I found the ietf thing going around in circles.

[10:37] Mystical Demina: thx penny

[10:37] Penny Lane: Yep

[10:38] Penny Lane: Not even in circles, more like in a self-destructive spiral.

[10:38] Charles Krinke: but if Teravus starts copy/pasting quips, I will join in and "pontificate" with Herr Watte

[10:38] Penny Lane: lol

[10:38] Charles Krinke:

[10:39] Charles Krinke: Penny. You think it would help us if I joined ogpx? Is OpenSim represented enough there?

[10:39] Biribi Bagration is Offline

[10:39] Charles Krinke: I say "us" in the global/royal sense

[10:39] Mystical Demina: i am interested in what they do because of the client work and may want to support it, buit i thnk it for the most part has shown to be a waste of time, hehe

[10:40] Penny Lane: No idea Charles. Just gonna wait and see.

[10:41] Charles Krinke: I understand. We have had a number of new modules in OpenSim lately and momentum is picking up even more. It is not getting to "Ludicrous Speed"

[10:41] tx Oh: ping

[10:41] PocoLoco Darwin: pong

[10:41] Teravus Ousley: poing

[10:41] Charles Krinke: To the point where some are irritated that I and others are saying slow down a bit and document

[10:42] tx Oh: yeah!

[10:42] BlueWall Slade: lol, some are sails - some are anchors, the rest are in the boat

[10:42] Penny Lane: If it makes LL tighten up their specs and hardwires them somewhat so that Opensim isn't chasing too many tail lights on protocol changes, then I guess it's good.

[10:42] tx Oh: and fix bugs

[10:42] Brent Seidel: Some of us are gulls following the boat looking for scraps.

[10:42] Charles Krinke: thats a good one, BlueWall.

[10:42] Teravus Ousley wonders about making a SL specific functionality branch for OpenSim separately and calling it snowmound.. or snowdrift....

[10:43] BlueWall Slade digs in pocke for oar

[10:43] Charles Krinke: Well, I dont mean to irritate folks, but documentation (or lack therof) has gotten ridiculous

[10:43] Charles Krinke: So, I will keep pushing unless some of you tell me to back off.

[10:43] tx Oh: ah, this downtime tomorrow, is it that the assets get copied to another filesystem?

[10:44] Teravus Ousley: "oh snoes"?

[10:44] Charles Krinke: Adam requested 2 hours to clean up the older asset server and move some files.

[10:44] Dave Coyle: teravus: i thought that was idealist's new name?

[10:44] Richardus Raymaker: what time, hope its in the morning here

[10:44] Teravus Ousley: I was joking with Dahlia about 'NoseSnows'

[10:45] Teravus Ousley: :)

[10:45] Charles Krinke: It should get twittered, later.

[10:45] tx Oh: another osgrid question. do we get the alpha group server back?

[10:45] Charles Krinke: As soon as Nebadon convinces himself the logic 'holes' that allow region corruption are fixed.

[10:45] BlueWall Slade: tx, we lost the settings in the ini and are still looking

[10:45] BlueWall Slade: hehe

[10:46] Charles Krinke: Which will perhaps mean a libomv update patch.

[10:46] Richardus Raymaker: did someone build a dozer to dump the holes ?

[10:46] Charles Krinke: Teravus: Could you look at MCortez libomv patch if you get the time, please. I forgot to ask you in the midst of all this other chaos.

[10:47] Teravus Ousley: heh, I had the last few.

[10:47] Charles Krinke: MCortez has a patch on Mantis for libomv, but, ... that is such a critical library that changing it can fubar many things.

[10:47] Teravus Ousley notes that he has some visitors over for a few weeks.. and thinks that he may not be working on OpenSimulator much during that tim.

[10:47] Mystical Demina: i have one thing to share when we are ready for next subject

[10:47] Teravus Ousley: tim->time

[10:47] BlueWall Slade: teach them C#

[10:48] Charles Krinke: no problem, man. You go above and beyond.

[10:48] Charles Krinke: unlike some vampires I will not mention by name

[10:48] BlueWall Slade: it would be good to test groups....

[10:49] BlueWall Slade: maybe those interested can use mcortez's server

[10:49] BlueWall Slade: then that might help move thnigs forward

[10:49] BlueWall Slade: #osgroups on freenode.net

[10:49] Teravus Ousley: afk, needs to do something for several minutes

[10:49] Charles Krinke: sure. there is nothing to preclude a region owner from using any server he wishes. Just remember, when we enable in grid-wide, we all need to use the osgrid server, but getting it wrung out is very helpful.

[10:50] Aramil Ewing: maybe a stupid question, when will be possible to storage in the inventory linked objects?

[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know that works already

[10:50] Charles Krinke: I thought that has been working for a long time

[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: i have a linked tree in iventory.

[10:51] Charles Krinke: I have many linked objects in my inventory

[10:51] BlueWall Slade: "grouped" I think is a better term

[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: i have many to now i think about it :)

[10:51] tx Oh: grouped, yes. thats not working

[10:51] BlueWall Slade: not the linksets, but selecting a group and saving all as a group

[10:51] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, yall. :)

[10:51] BlueWall Slade: hi Paulie

[10:51] PocoLoco Darwin: grouped ---> is that coallesced?

[10:51] Charles Krinke: BlueWall, is that a missing feature?

[10:51] Penny Lane: I think Aramil meant "coallesced"

[10:52] Richardus Raymaker: aha. yes i think thats not working

[10:52] paulie Flomar perks his ears and listens

[10:52] Penny Lane: Coallesced always was a hack in SL anyway

[10:52] Charles Krinke: I dont think anyone is working on that. I have not heard any discussion

[10:52] PocoLoco Darwin: agree w/Penny, we don't really want coallesced do we?

[10:53] Penny Lane: It was full of edge cases, look at the jiras

[10:53] tx Oh: also the spring away of prims in a link set, undo function is messed.. a bag of bugs in the daily life on opensim

[10:53] Aramil Ewing: uhmm i mean like if you build a city, and then you can group it all and stored as a object on the inventory

[10:53] Charles Krinke: Is that Mantised, Tx? If so, can folks add an "amplifying note" to get it to the top of the Mantis list?

[10:53] Mystical Demina: you guys want to hear some news about Xenki project?

[10:54] Charles Krinke: Sure

[10:54] Mystical Demina: so, hi, my first meeting

[10:54] Aramil Ewing: the last time i try it store each prim individually

[10:54] BlueWall Slade: Hi

[10:54] Mystical Demina: i have quit my job a few weeks ago and doing opensim related stuff and SL content full time now so should see me around more

[10:55] Aramil Ewing: welcome mystical

[10:55] Aramis Soren: now that's dedication :)

[10:55] Mystical Demina: so adam asked for someone to volunteer to take on Xenki so i have volunteered

[10:55] Charles Krinke: You are braver then I, Mystical.

[10:55] PocoLoco Darwin thinks obsession, but welcomes Mystical anyway :-D

[10:55] Mystical Demina: i have one developer that has volunteered to help

[10:55] Mystical Demina: so the curretn status is

[10:55] Mystical Demina: we are hoping to have a release towards the endo of the month that will support shat

[10:56] Mystical Demina: chat*

[10:56] tx Oh: whats xenki?

[10:56] Charles Krinke: Can we get some folks to help Mystical with testing?

[10:56] paulie Flomar: Mystical: awesome news!

[10:56] Mystical Demina: xenki originally was is a browser based SL/OpenSim client

[10:56] Charles Krinke: Woot. Browser based client lives again

[10:56] Penny Lane: Windows-only I believe, and not portable because uses XNA and other MS stuff.

[10:56] paulie Flomar: Mystical: lookin for testers?

[10:56] Aramis Soren: http://xenkiviewer.com/

[10:56] Charles Krinke: Grab these guys/gals, Mystical

[10:56] Mystical Demina: ok, so here is what has happened

[10:57] paulie Flomar: I would love a browser-based client long time.

[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: thats bad, windows only.

[10:57] Mystical Demina: Adam's originally client is based on XAML/XBAP

[10:57] tx Oh: is this the elgg thing?

[10:57] Mystical Demina: i had already been working on XNA client

[10:57] paulie Flomar: Elgg is a diff project, afaik.

[10:57] Mystical Demina: but 75% o the work can be shared across rendering engine

[10:57] paulie Flomar: Elgg is a social networking site for OpenSIm, I believe

[10:57] Mystical Demina: so i will start moving my work into an open archectureture

[10:58] paulie Flomar: like MySpace or Facebook, etc

[10:58] Charles Krinke: coolness, Mystical

[10:58] Mystical Demina: that i will called Xenki Arhecture

[10:58] paulie Flomar: Mystical: yayz!

[10:58] PocoLoco Darwin claps loudly

[10:58] Mystical Demina: i have started an advisory board wehre i have inivted some of the leaders in the virtual world to attend to get feedback on direction, features

[10:59] Mystical Demina: we have people from nokia, ibm, architects, gaming people, and are working on more

[10:59] Mystical Demina: because i believe the use case has to be clear to be successful

[10:59] Aramil Ewing: about that point, what you guys think about to integreate opensim with joomla as a component, for community builders, ecommerce, etc?

[10:59] Mystical Demina: so, it is alive, and we are working on it, adn that leads me to a question, if we were to enable it for OSGrid sometime next month

[11:00] tx Oh: ah, this xenki. checked it a while ago. it's m$ only, right?

[11:00] Mystical Demina: who could help with that?

[11:00] Mystical Demina: m$?

[11:00] Mystical Demina: what is that

[11:00] Mystical Demina: microsdot, hehe

[11:00] PocoLoco Darwin: MicroSoft

[11:00] Mystical Demina: yeah, for now

[11:00] tx Oh: microsoft

[11:00] Charles Krinke: Mystical, Paulie or BlueWall are good folks to chat with about OSGrid admin stuff as they are both osgrid admins

[11:00] BlueWall Slade: so Linux/Mac is in the future?

[11:00] Mystical Demina: i ma looking into silverlight, that is where i want to go to, but we need to rebuil libOVM

[11:01] Monk Zymurgy: i think linux user willuse clients anyhow..but windows users dont like leaving the browser

[11:01] Mystical Demina: that is actually a pretty interesting project if someone wanted to try to get into that

[11:01] Charles Krinke: Ok, can someone copy/paste the chat session onto the opensim wiki for this meeting and announce on IRC?

[11:01] Mystical Demina: siliveright is multi platform and multi browser but uses a subset of .NET

[11:01] Dave Coyle: charles: i can

[11:01] paulie Flomar: Mystical: I'm VERY interested in a browser-based client.

[11:01] BlueWall Slade: moonlight

[11:01] Penny Lane: Mystical: are you intending to implement portable/pluggable avatars into Xenki, so that (as a start) some form of realXtend av mesh could be imported alongside SL's standard av?

[11:02] Mystical Demina: yes, i already have it in XNA version

[11:02] Charles Krinke: I'm off to wrassle company-demons. Thanks for the meeting everyone

[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: as long it runs on linux

[11:02] Mystical Demina: we will have to watch it, XAML has limiations performance wise

[11:02] paulie Flomar: Bye, ck!

[11:02] BlueWall Slade: Thansk Charles

[11:02] Brent Seidel: thanks Charles.

[11:02] Mystical Demina: if you want to help best way is to join the Xenkiviewer.com wesite or request a join on forge

[11:03] tx Oh: nice project.

[11:03] BlueWall Slade: what do yo need from the OSG team?

[11:03] Penny Lane: That's good Mystical, although without Linux it won't be of interest to me.

[11:03] Mystical Demina: there is a #xenki group as well

[11:03] Mystical Demina: i am the only one there, hehe

[11:03] Monk Zymurgy: yup..if it is a windows only advance..thats not good

[11:03] Mystical Demina: htat is what i watned to share

[11:03] Mystical Demina: well, ther will be may flavors of viewers

[11:03] BlueWall Slade: thanks

[11:03] Mystical Demina: so not shire is is not good, but what we have to start

[11:03] paulie Flomar: Mystical, thx. I'll join the site.

[11:04] BlueWall Slade: have you looked at diva's grider ?

[11:04] Mystical Demina: yes, wihich brings up a good point

[11:04] Mystical Demina: i really want to see about integrating this

[11:04] Mystical Demina: and if someone wanted ot help with that, woudl be great

[11:04] tx Oh: what is grider?

[11:04] BlueWall Slade: I hope others do as well

[11:04] tx Oh: i think we need a hypergrid directory server

[11:04] BlueWall Slade: it is a proxy

[11:05] tx Oh: where hg regions can register and removed when unreachable

[11:05] Mystical Demina: i saw there was OSURL, but is anyoen maintaining that?

[11:05] BlueWall Slade: as long as the regions have control of the inventory and other transaction data, we are in trouble.

[11:05] Penny Lane: Grider is Diva's version of gridproxy, extended for hacking protocols.

[11:06] Penny Lane: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Grider

[11:06] BlueWall Slade: yes, she is using it to try to contain more of teh sensitive data in the client

[11:07] Teravus Ousley is back

[11:07] BlueWall Slade: wb Teravus

[11:07] tx Oh: wb

[11:07] Mystical Demina: grinder sits on libOVM?

[11:07] paulie Flomar: I believe the Lindens have made changes or gonna make changes in 1.23 which reduces texture theft. or theyre gonna try...

[11:07] Teravus Ousley: thanks

[11:07] BlueWall Slade: inventory in CAPS?

[11:07] paulie Flomar coughhs

[11:07] Mystical Demina: i heard they will bake skins onthe server, this is true?

[11:08] paulie Flomar: somethin like that, afaik

[11:08] paulie Flomar: not to sidetrack the discussion. just a sidebar fyi.

[11:08] Penny Lane: 1.23 no longer send down av mesh textures to everyone, only to the wearer. The wearer then bakes the av mesh and sends it to sim, which caches it and sends it to everyone else.

[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: intressting paulie. do you have more info.

[11:08] paulie Flomar: RR: no. I just saw a blurb on it.

[11:09] paulie Flomar: just a factoid

[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: how can you protect something that is visible ?

[11:09] paulie Flomar: RR: *cough*

[11:09] Penny Lane: No, they're not baking on server. The sim will only cache.

[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: aha

[11:10] paulie Flomar: But I didna mean to sidetrack the discussion here into "security" discussion. As a wise man once said, "Security is largely a superstition. IT does not exist in the natural world." :)

[11:10] Penny Lane: It's worth noting that a side effect of what they're doing will be that anyone can make themselves appear any way they want to, regardless of what mesh clothing that are wearing on the sim, because there is no way for the sim to check. You can invent your own "bake" to be anything you like.

[11:11] paulie Flomar: ...

[11:11] paulie Flomar: just textures or meshes too?

[11:11] tx Oh: ok, i gtg

[11:11] paulie Flomar: by, tx!

[11:11] tx Oh: ahoi

[11:11] Penny Lane: Anything you send up to the sim as a baked texture will be faithfully distributed to everyone in sight. This is going to be fun :P

[11:12] BlueWall Slade: see ya tx

[11:12] Brent Seidel: bye tx

[11:12] Monk Zymurgy: beye tx

[11:12] Penny Lane: paulie: just textures, sadly. Pity, else we'd have lovely comedy :P

[11:12] paulie Flomar: viruses baked into JP2 senr as textures? hehheh

[11:12] Richardus Raymaker: bye

[11:12] paulie Flomar: cya, RR!

[11:12] Teravus Ousley: hmm. That happens anyway

[11:12] Mystical Demina: but i thought client baked and shared before, so what is different

[11:12] Teravus Ousley: upload a texture.. apply it to a box.. everyone else downloads it

[11:13] Monk Zymurgy: im out too, c ya all :)

[11:13] Teravus Ousley: See yas!

[11:13] BlueWall Slade: bye

[11:13] Penny Lane: The difference is that the sim previously sent everyone the 5 component body textures, so everyone baked for everyone else. Now only the wearer will do the baking.

[11:13] Brent Seidel: That sounds more efficient.

[11:13] paulie Flomar: interesting

[11:14] Mystical Demina: ok, i thought i only get to see baked copies of everyone, the client did bake and up load before, no? so why did it upload?

[11:14] Penny Lane: I like the control it gives clients. And content creators like that only the wearer gets sent the 5 textures.

[11:14] paulie Flomar: so a region only has to send one tex now, not 5? sounds more efficient, yes

[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: would be good for opensim to, saves bandwidth

[11:15] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. I also think clients have been doing that for a little while.

[11:15] Penny Lane: Yep, it's more efficient on bandwidth, but less efficient on latency, since there is now a long trip sim->wearer- ->sim->everybody.

[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: yes

[11:16] Teravus Ousley: .. just now they're making the 'old 5 texture' thing not work anymore

[11:17] BlueWall Slade: see ya Teravus

[11:17] Teravus Ousley: Take care! :)

[11:17] Brent Seidel: Bye

[11:17] paulie Flomar: why arent texs server baked? To save putting too much strain on regions?

[11:17] Brent Seidel: Have a good one everyone.

[11:18] paulie Flomar: cya, Brent!

[11:18] Mystical Demina: seems at least a process could be done somewhere on the grid to bake things

[11:18] BlueWall Slade: gbye

[11:18] Mystical Demina: not really need to be in the region

[11:19] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9602 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)

Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True

[11:19] paulie Flomar: I guess the design decision is "wearer bakes his own textures" to save strain on region servers

[11:19] Mystical Demina: actually might be a new server, send it a list of assetid and it returns a textu

[11:19] Penny Lane: I've just noticed that the timezone here is PST, while it's PDT in SL, logged in on this same workstation right now.

[11:19] Mystical Demina: both that and hard to steal skins and other stuff if they are baked already

[11:19] paulie Flomar: Penny: timezones is an onhoing discussion here

[11:20] Penny Lane: Hehe

[11:20] paulie Flomar: we havenr come to consensus on it, afaik

[11:20] BlueWall Slade: we have code to see what a region is on now

[11:21] paulie Flomar: I wish we had seperate layers for clothes, anyway and didnt have to bake them all into one tex. Sigh.

[11:21] paulie Flomar: seperate mesh just for clothes..

[11:22] paulie Flomar: with cloth effects. as long as I'm wishin..

[11:22] BlueWall Slade: add particles and you could be an Elvis impersonator

[11:22] paulie Flomar: and a pony!

[11:23] Penny Lane: Well on the baking issue, ultimately only client resources are scalable with population, not server resources, so you want as much as possible to be done on the client. LL aren't using that as the reason for this change, but I think that will end up being the most important one.

[11:23] paulie Flomar: http://sc.tri-bit.com/Image:pony.jpg

[11:23] paulie Flomar: Penny: word