Chat log from the meeting on 2022-08-23

 [10:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [10:59] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Let's see this week we had more of Ubit beating things into submission hehe [11:00] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Is much left on that? [11:00] Ubit Umarov: ofc [11:00] Ubit Umarov: that was a minor thing [11:01] Ubit Umarov: changes of the type "useless changes" uff [11:01] Ubit Umarov: looking to code, clear time saved [11:01] Ubit Umarov: in use.. bahh [11:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not entirely useless if they make things easier to read [11:02] Ubit Umarov: there was there a O(n^2) now a O(nlogn) [10:56] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: HI guys [10:57] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: hi cuga, hey selby [10:57] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [10:58] Kayaker Magic: Hello Jamie, Guga, Selby, earlybirds! [10:58] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: hi kayaker [10:59] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Maybe I can ask a question before the mtg starts [10:59] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: ask away! [10:59] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Can anyone point me to a good resource for enforcinf a web page form TOS to be agreed before inbound HG TP? [11:00] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: to disallow inbound HG TP unless someone fills out form [11:00] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: like they do at OSCC music sim [11:00] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: is there something already written for that [11:00] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody [11:01] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi Jamie [11:01] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:01] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: hi jamie - and cuga, good question. if they do it for oscc music then someones already done it - the question is who :) [11:02] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ive seen it done in more than one grid [11:02] Ubit Umarov: what may i ask? [11:02] Kayaker Magic: Lots of tasks for OpenSim grid management are home-rolled by the admins. [11:02] Ubit Umarov: wlel yeah not much core code for grid admin [11:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I wouldnt know where to begin, Gatekeeper.cs [11:03] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: ubit - the question was: to disallow inbound HG TP unless someone fills out form [11:03] Kayaker Magic: So you probably won't find an open-source HG ban system lying aobut... [11:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: hate to r-0invet the wheel [11:03] Ubit Umarov: ah yes many grids have that, bc silly EU things [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. I wound up at out backup location when I logged in today. [11:03] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but every grid manager ends up having to re-invent several wheels. [11:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well its just signing TOS before entering, not really a ban [11:04] Ubit Umarov: Bill made one of the first i seen [11:04] Ubit Umarov: wel, bill now lost to RL [11:04] Kayaker Magic: If you find a grid manager who is willing to share, it will be code that assumes things about how the grid is set up, will need to be modified heavily. There are no standards. [11:05] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: it might be easiest to just ask a grid admin on one of the grids you find it on if they will share with you how to do it. most grid admins i've met are always happy to help [11:05] Ubit Umarov: thing is abotu EU regulations where you need to tell you accept some storing of oyur date [11:05] Ubit Umarov: or something like hat [11:05] Ubit Umarov: that [11:05] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Not really [11:05] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Most if not all the data OpenSim sends is process-related so falls outside of those regulations [11:05] Ubit Umarov: date? data! [11:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the only data is the avatar URL and uuid [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I think I have code for that GDPR thing. [11:06] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: If theres a sample I could adapt that would be ideal [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Have a look at https://bitbucket.org/OpenSimLife/projectsasha.git [11:06] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thanks.. looking [11:06] Ubit Umarov: yeah but many did block HG unless ppl do go to a page and accept [11:06] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: says repo not found [11:06] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Like a webserver you have to know the IP to send data back to, can't get around that, it's how the internet works, so that's outside of gdpr. You only need that if you plan to do anything with that data other than process-related things such as sending a website back. [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, I don't know if that will still work with the latest version of OpenSim but it should get you going. I haven't tried using it in a long time. [11:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: says repo not found? [11:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: https://bitbucket.org/OpenSimLife/projectsasha.git [11:08] Ubit Umarov: https://bitbucket.org/OpenSimLife seems gone [11:08] Ubit Umarov: think it was bill's thing? [11:08] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The way I've seen them work is the initial TP gives them a rejection dialog in viewer with a link to a web page. They fill it out, thewn the next TP works [11:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:09] Ubit Umarov: something on gatekeeper login [11:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah [11:09] Ubit Umarov: guess a flag added to a db [11:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats how I would do it [11:09] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: also seen it done with filesystem [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: My copy of the project code was last updated June of 2018 [11:09] Ubit Umarov: already done by many [11:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I just need to find one to share [11:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: OK thanks I'll ask around [11:10] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: You can write that quite easily, the rejection stuff you can copy the code that's already there, rest is interface with griduser table and making some sort of key for a webpage to read and set acceptance flag. [11:10] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I wouldnt know where to start [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: If the code is no longer in any public repository I can add it to my list of github projects. [11:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that would be awesome [11:11] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: seems it would be a needed code bit for many people [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm not really a C programmer but I do sql, php and JS in my sleep [11:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but I'll learn what I need of get help [11:12] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or* [11:13] Kayaker Magic: I think PHP / SQL will do you well. [11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah think bill did close that bitbucket repo when he closed the grid [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see who wrote it. It is just showing osC2 Dev Team. [11:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that part I can write no prob [11:13] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: its the OS code Im not sure about [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: There is no source code other than just some PHP files and a .sql one for setting up the database table. [11:14] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Adding something like that for gdpr compliance when it isn't needed is a bit silly, could be useful to get people to read rules, but I don't go to peoples houses and immediately destroy the furniture so good behavior as guest should be common sense I would hope... [11:14] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can set that up [11:15] Ubit Umarov: many did that back then [11:15] Ubit Umarov: think several girds demand that [11:15] Ubit Umarov: in fact even seen a site that just refuses EU [11:15] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It did great for the internet, cookie popups everywhere and sites load ever slower -.- [11:15] Ubit Umarov: because of gdpr [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: IIRC, people outside the EU are being forced to comply if it is expected that you will have users from the EU. [11:16] Ubit Umarov: and now the cookies crap is just irritating [11:16] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: How do I configure Gatekeeper or whatever to check for avatar X in database Y as a condition to allow inbound TP? [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, very [11:16] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can do the php part [11:16] Ubit Umarov: you need to change some of our code on hg login to do that [11:17] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats the part I need help with [11:17] Ubit Umarov: think no hook there to use [11:17] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: if you can do the php part, since OS runs on databases, wouldnt it be as simple as a SELECT? [11:17] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for llokup yes [11:18] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: There is code in Gatekeeper that checks existence in grid user table, you can add conditions after that based on the data in there, a flag for allow TP inbound for example. If set to false just give them a popup. Code for that is in the rejections further down that check against mac bans for example. It's C# code, not that much different from PHP [11:19] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It's not as complex as it may seem at first [11:19] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Can always ask on IRC or the mailing list for more help [11:19] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Is that in OpenSim/Services/LLLoginService/LLLoginService.cs ? [11:20] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: GatekeeperService is for HG, Login is for local users [11:20] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ah ok [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: In [modules] you set AuthorizationServices and in [AuthorizationServices] you set AuthorizationServerURI to point to a PHP file that is part of the Project Sasha repo. [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: AuthorizationServices = RemoteAuthorizationServicesConnector [11:22] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: taking notes [11:23] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: dont forget these are recorded and posted so you can come back if you forget a piece [11:24] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Does the PHP file just exist to fill out and add theor avatar to the DB, or does it also handle each inbound TP check as a handoff? [11:25] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: where is the Project Sacha repo? [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Don't know. It either has been deleted or it has moved to some other location. I've been trying to find it. [11:26] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I could definitely use that code and adapt it [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: The main adaptations would be to be able to access the database tables for your grid. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: well abotu last week code changes [11:27] Ubit Umarov: a few more abotu try to save a few ns here and there [11:27] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: yes, what got done while i was working on the food platform? [11:28] Ubit Umarov: also created shared assets for a default scritp and a empty notecard [11:29] Ubit Umarov: so now when we create a new one in viewer inventory, the new item points to those [11:29] Ubit Umarov: and will not create a new asset with same data over and over again [11:30] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that will help cut down on orphaned assets? [11:31] Ubit Umarov: guess a few more cases can have this, but on several the viewers to preupload a new asset, so cant' avit that [11:31] Ubit Umarov: yes will cut down a lot [11:31] Ubit Umarov: wel or same [11:32] Ubit Umarov: the new scripts are usually made on a region, so do not polute the assets service imediatly [11:32] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I have not looked too deep into osMakeNotecard, it might still create a new asset even if the data inside the notecard is the same, but that's more a fault of bad LSL code than that function [11:32] Ubit Umarov: bu tdo fill up the region cache etc [11:33] Kayaker Magic: If a HG visitor arrives and rezzes an object, doesn't it get swept into the main asset system in a few minutes? [11:33] Ubit Umarov: hard to avid that [11:34] Ubit Umarov: well this shared will also work on those cases [11:34] Ubit Umarov: well one day when more regions know abotu them [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, I just sent you a link to a private place for the GDPR files. There are a couple of text files in it that tell you how you use it. [11:34] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: got it [11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that has the PHP code but not the OS code mods [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: There are no code mods, AFAICT. You just change an ini file. [11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh, even better [11:35] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Thanks I'll take a closer look [11:35] Ubit Umarov: yeah for what plug typed, it replaces a core service by a php one [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I mentioned the two settings earlier. [11:36] Ubit Umarov: added a minor integer log2 thing [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I need a new mouse or mouse cable. It is not behaving itself properly. [11:36] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Should go without saying to avoid using osMakeNotecard if you can save the data to Prim description instead, because this all came about after I found some SF_animal notecards, 37 million in total, clogging up an asset server, which is just bad coding on the part of the script that made them. Suppose they ran on a timer saving positional data or something to a new notecard each time or something like that. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: that is a little faster than using full float log [11:37] Ubit Umarov: we did add a json store or something [11:37] Ubit Umarov: had [11:37] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: andrew - have you tried using a trackball style? only problem i ever hit is when dust builds up around the ball on the sensors and a qtip fixes that in seconds [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, That is one of the reasons that the function has the threat level it does have and why it isn't enabled by default. [11:39] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I been thinking about adding a bigger disclaimer to the wiki on the results of overuse of that function as well, though not sure how many really read that as is [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: MichaelOmega: Years ago I had a keyboard with built-in trackball. It stopped working properly land I've never seen another like it since. I would love to have a keyboard with built-in mouse like device so I can sit back in my chair and still use a mouse. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: that integer log2 is something that dotnet > 5 does really fast on a intel cpu [11:41] Ubit Umarov: because it does match a cpu instruction [11:41] Ubit Umarov: so they did add it well on some dotnet version, system.numerics [11:42] Ubit Umarov: that ofc we cant' use [11:42] Ubit Umarov: so i added the managed code alternative [11:42] Ubit Umarov: even to faster than the Math one [11:43] Ubit Umarov: but well only used in no critical places so far [11:43] Ubit Umarov: lie on warp3d map recreation [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ludo [11:44] Ludo.Davis @sheikah.org:8002: Hi everyone [11:44] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: hi ludo [11:44] Ubit Umarov: .. [11:44] Ubit Umarov: const double log2inv = 1.4426950408889634073599246810019; bitWidth = (int)Math.Ceiling((Math.Log(terrain.Width) * log2inv)); bitHeight = (int)Math.Ceiling((Math.Log(terrain.Height) * log2inv)); [11:44] Ubit Umarov: is now [11:44] Ubit Umarov: bitWidth = Util.intLog2((uint)terrain.Width); bitHeight = Util.intLog2((uint)terrain.Height); [11:44] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:44] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Minor savings in cpu over time go a long way when they add up :) [11:45] Ubit Umarov: well this ones like 1ns per month :p [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:45] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: One less carbon atom in the atmosphere [11:45] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:46] Ubit Umarov: i may use it on ubode [11:46] Ubit Umarov: not sure [11:46] Ubit Umarov: well already do [11:46] Ubit Umarov: so 1 more ns per region start!! [11:47] Ubit Umarov: with all sititing this region physics is very light [11:48] Ubit Umarov: 3us per frame :) [11:48] Ubit Umarov: so like 30us per second [11:48] Ubit Umarov: ohh no... last was 4us [11:48] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Just over 10 minutes until the end of the hour. Anyone else have a question/comment for today? [11:49] Ubit Umarov: ppl love to be at lbsa standing [11:49] Ubit Umarov: to sit is a big lag reduction thing [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: That's why we are asked to sit in the Keynote areas during the OSCC. [11:50] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: It's gotten a lot better, was throwing 1500 balls from one region to another the other day and no physics of sim fps drops at all [11:50] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: peaking of, how close are we getting to starting planning fo rthis years OSCC? times running away weith me this year [11:50] Ubit Umarov: oscc has own team [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Michael, I haven't heard anything yet. I would think some planning is already under way. [11:51] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: smh. yea, need to ask lyr or joy probably [11:51] Ubit Umarov: don't remember when ttehy call for participants.. early Nov, Oct ? [11:53] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: ok good, still got some time to decide which direction i want to focus this years talk, got too many irons in the fire [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Last year the call for proposals went out on September 27. [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: That should give you about a month, Michael. [11:54] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: ty [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: yw [11:55] Ubit Umarov: yeha seems they ask at octuber [11:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I went back to mainline mono last Friday and since then it did not go back to crashing on TryParse again, knock on wood it stays that way. Removing mono entirely I noticed a few folders with data left in them in /etc and /usr/lib so perhaps it was loading some old things causing issues. Will have to see what new binaries on that version behave like [11:55] Ubit Umarov: October even [11:55] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Sunday, September 25, 2016 2016 HG: OpenSimulator Community Conference 2016: Call for proposals. Call for proposals. OSCC 2016 OpenSimulator Community Conference 2016 [11:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Nothing in my testing environment ever ended up crashing so perhaps the 182 release already fixed what was wrong, time will tell [11:55] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Gotta love these illusive bugs [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: https://conference.opensimulator.org/call-for-proposals/ [11:56] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: :) [11:56] Ubit Umarov: that was for 2021 :) [11:57] Ubit Umarov: ohh but [11:57] Ubit Umarov: September 27, 2021 – Announcement of the Call for Proposals! [11:57] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: MariaDB also finally added ubuntu jammy to their repo list so you can get the latest stable now instead of some older version [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, I know and I said that. I was trying to provide some idea of the timeline we can expect for this year. [11:58] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:58] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: its a good reference. proposal deadline beginning of Nov. gives plenty of time to finalize schedule and fill in entertainment [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Just a couple of minutes left in the hour. Last call for questions/comments. [11:59] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: none else here [11:59] Ubit Umarov: ohh no.. [11:59] Ubit Umarov: we should have a release before that? [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Could be worth it if there have been enough changes and/or bug fixes. It is something to think about. [12:00] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Gotta give the latest changes some time to be tested before another release [12:00] Ubit Umarov: guess for now only a 0.9.2.2 [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Nothing like the upcoming OSCC to make one think about a new release. :) [12:01] Ubit Umarov: ( our release is 0.9.2.1 i case you don't remember ;) ) [12:01] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: who needs time tot est for bugs before a public release? look at microsoft! (ok maybe that was a bit too far) [12:02] Ubit Umarov: tot est ? [12:02] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: to test [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: to test [12:02] Ubit Umarov: oops ofc tot est [12:02] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: What are the main issues to watch out for in trunk? [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: That's the new buzz phrase for here. ;) [12:02] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: :)) [12:03] Ubit Umarov: well the changes we speak about each week :) [12:03] Ubit Umarov: and others we doen't [12:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok :) [12:03] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: The changes to physics code and the notecard/script stuff could cause trouble, I don't expect them to, but some edge case might be there hard to know without looking everywhere [12:03] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have a lot of test cases for physics [12:04] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: are they mainly in obODE or also Bullet? [12:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: We got some unit tests for the most grave things, though we could use more of those too [12:04] Ubit Umarov: i did place a box with those assets at lbs [12:04] Ubit Umarov: did remove the eep ones.. [12:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: We did find some problems through those actually, part of the changes this week even [12:04] Ubit Umarov: but any grid can HG to lbsa and take a copy of that box, so getting the assets [12:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh the eep is updated? [12:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll have to grab that for my standalone [12:05] Ubit Umarov: its where the eep ones where [12:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I remember, I got the original [12:05] Ubit Umarov: no change on eep [12:05] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ohh [12:06] Ubit Umarov: so that i did remove the box that was there with the eep assets [12:06] Ubit Umarov: hmm and another one with assets i forgot :) [12:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'll give physics a thorough shakeout on trunk. [12:07] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have test cases MrBlue said he never saw before and couldn't believe they actually worked :) [12:07] Ubit Umarov: but getting any object with such asset here at osg, will make that asset be transfered [12:08] Ubit Umarov: or any grid with current 0.9.2.2 [12:08] Ubit Umarov: well grids that do use core assets services [12:08] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: should I delete that asset that cane from OSG? [12:08] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye all [12:08] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: is it included now with the distro? [12:09] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: bye selby! [12:09] Ubit Umarov: others need to put them also on their assets services [12:09] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans [12:09] Ludo.Davis @sheikah.org:8002: Bye Selby [12:09] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: oh shoot just noticed time [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby [12:09] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: i'd better run too before im late again :)) [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, we are past the hour now. [12:09] MichaelOmega ChristopherGeode: have a great week and ttys! [12:09] Ludo.Davis @sheikah.org:8002: Bye everyone [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: You too, Michael. [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Unless anyone has a last minute item I'll wrap up todays meeting. [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I see no one typing so I will say my usual closing remarks. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.