Chat log from the meeting on 2020-02-25

[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi Andrew

[11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew

[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, George.

[11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Evening George

[11:06] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi George

[11:06] George Equus: Hello Andrew and everyone

[11:06] George Equus: Forgot time, head full with nasty mesh and prims

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nasty mes?

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mesh*

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker

[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hello all!

[11:07] George Equus: Mmm, bad mesh linked with regiular prims can have strange effects

[11:07] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Kayaker

[11:07] George Equus: Hi Kayaker

[11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet

[11:08] George Equus: said prims become invisible in certan angels and distances

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: hu

[11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hu

[11:08] George Equus: no idea why but def. a fact

[11:09] George Equus: well, as always, keep away from badly made mesh

[11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can't say I have ever experienced that, but ok

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: never noticed that either

[11:10] George Equus: no problems with 1 "prim" mesh objects

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: but some prims do stay hidden until touched, ocasionaly with fs

[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are you using textures with an alpah cannel on the mesh?

[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cause that can cause all kinds of interesting issues

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: yeap the always funny alpha bug

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: see it on some avatars.. terrible

[11:12] George Equus: Might have copy of the bad link set still, will pop over to sandbox and check it out and hopefully you can examine the link set. brb

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: but chaning the alpha mode may help

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: this is a sandbox

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: lol

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: 2 late

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just about to ask George which physics engine he is using. I will have to hold that question until he returns.

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: well what news do you bring andrew ?

[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: LL is no longer going to back Sansar. That could bring people back to SL or OpenSim grids.

[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might

[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think Sansar had much traction anyway

[11:16] Ubit Umarov: last i saw they still had no idea what to do with sansar, telling ppl to keep playing there

[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: It had a number of obstacles to deal with from the start. Convincing people to try using it for one. Not having it as easy for creating items is another issue.

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: guess they are trying to sell it

[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ebbe said they are negotiating to sell it

[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: wb, George.

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: George this is a sandbox also :)

[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there was an online interviewe with hin on Friday

[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: George, what physics engine are you using?

[11:17] George Equus: thanks. found it. anyone want a copy let me know

[11:18] George Equus: ubODE

[11:18] Ubit Umarov: you can rez it back there

[11:19] George Equus: OK done that now

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: misissing prims?

[11:19] George Equus: zoom in and you'll see the effect

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: on the 2 pilars at my side?

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: yeah fun

[11:20] George Equus: one side cleaned of mesh but seem just one present will destroy all, linked OR unlinked regardless

[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have missing detail there too Ubit, but otherwise it looks OK from all angles and distances

[11:21] George Equus: very annoying when aproching an object like this and all look fine from a distance but vanish in part when getting closer

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: the 2 pilars far from me do disappear

[11:21] Ubit Umarov: odd

[11:21] Kayaker Magic: Where is this? I don't see nuthin

[11:21] George Equus: it is odd. took me ages to figuer out what caused it.

[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not in Dayturn

[11:21] George Equus: remove all mesh in that set and it behave fine

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: gezz all parts of pilar do vanisg

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: guess messed up LODs

[11:22] George Equus: one of those mesh object count 37 in land impact... should be 1

[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the second one has a lot of missing detail

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: guess also happens unlinked?

[11:23] George Equus: yep

[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Where are the items you are looking at?

[11:24] George Equus: just next of this building Andrew

[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the linked one has a lot of invisible items

[11:24] George Equus: very difficult to edit lol  when zooming in...

[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: The arch like thing over the path leading to this building?

[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you select it, they show as blue outlines

[11:24] George Equus: Yes Andrew

[11:25] George Equus: ugly, just demo the effect

[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: One has a land impact of 95

[11:25] Kayaker Magic: OK, I see them. If you zoom in close the pillars become invisible.

[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, I see the same Kayaker

[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I also see the effect Kayaker just mentioned.

[11:26] George Equus: right

[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what viewer did you upload the mesh with George?

[11:28] George Equus: I didn't, found it somewhere a long time ago

[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: hmm give me a copy of that thing plz

[11:28] George Equus: check it out now, all mesh removed and the original 30 m away

[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am more interested in inspecting the mesh

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: same effect

[11:29] George Equus: hmmm someone deleted most of it lol

[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: one of those column heads

[11:29] George Equus: all yours Ubit,

[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you rezz just one column head, how many LI does it show?

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: ill try to show it beq

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: to beq

[11:31] Ubit Umarov: well one day

[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 672580 triangles for the rezzed item with column heads

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Gavin, I have seen several videos demonstrating mirrors in SL, is that a feature of the viewer? Why is that not used?

[11:32] George Equus: Visually that column head is nice but technically is disaster

[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ask Oz

[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he does not want them

[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apparently the viewer takes a very significant performance hit

[11:33] George Equus: usual way is to fake it with reverse copy below

[11:33] George Equus: double the prim count

[11:33] Kayaker Magic: So LL never released the mirror code for the viewer?

[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no

[11:34] George Equus: "real" mirrors do exit in EVE online

[11:34] George Equus: *exist

[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apropos Sansar, Sincspace seems like the place people will migrate to

[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are videos out for how to convert both SL and Sansar content to Sinespace

[11:37] George Equus: Two features missing in Opensim, mirrors and lowering water on a parcel would make this near perfect. The one thing that will never be possible is digging a tunnel...

[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Water height can be set. Mirrors would be nice.

[11:39] George Equus: Water height can only be lowered over a whole region. would be nice to be able to dig a hole for say a swimming pool with "real" system water in it

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: seems its the mesh really

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: no water is a sinlge object

[11:40] George Equus: Building a mine, well trying to anyway, so lowered ground and water to - 100m on a region

[11:41] George Equus: no haze effects when going down there

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: and mirrors are viers thing

[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mirror with recursion should really give the viewer something to chew on

[11:43] George Equus: Water seem to be same technically as ground, would imply possibility to dig a water free hole...

[11:43] George Equus: Mirrors would be a hit for many on opensim

[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: You can always submit a pull request for your ideas George, and I am sure the code will be tested

[11:46] George Equus: Would not know how to Gavin, not a tech person so just speak about it in public...lol

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, then there will be no mirrors

[11:46] George Equus: Wish I knew how to code though, would facilitate a lot

[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as it will be a massive performance hit

[11:47] George Equus: No idea how a mirror works but  have no impact at all in EVE as far as I know

[11:47] George Equus: but very different code I image

[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is eve?

[11:48] George Equus: EVE Online, a space Battle game. booring... spent a year and got fed up

[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why are you comparing tow completely different platforms?

[11:48] George Equus: Avatars could at one point walk in a cabin cor crews and there woas a mirror to check your outfit in

[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet you every mirror there is faked with textures

[11:51] George Equus: Not comparing anything Gavin, just stating the fact mirrors do exist in the gaming world. Would be cool to have that on opensim but code are too different and old I assume as we never see it here or in SL.

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Opensim or SL is NOT a gaming world

[11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)

[11:51] George Equus: EVE mirrors are "the real thing and behave exactly as in the real world

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In a game there is virtually NO dynamic content, and every scene is usually highly optimized and canned

[11:52] George Equus: Gavinm, please don't pick on words, you know what I mean

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no, I don't know what you mean

[11:52] George Equus: Let's drop the subject then.

[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes

[11:52] George Equus: "game" is a flexible term, annoying sosme it seem.

[11:53] George Equus: I regard opensim a dev place not a game

[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is not when it comes to hwo it is constructed

[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Just under 10 minutes to the top of the hour. Does someone have another topic for todays gathering?

[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: How is Kitely coming along Selby?

[11:54] George Equus: Anyone want to play some more with the mesh or can I delete it?

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think you should probably delete it as it seems corrupt

[11:55] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kitely is generally wworking well

[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so they have sorted the issues that were?

[11:55] George Equus: Def. corrupt lol. Pity on the pillar heads they are unusable though

[11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: But they are still fixing problems. Their customer who wanted 0.9 is apparently saticfied

[11:56] Kayaker Magic: Can any viewer save mesh as a DAE? I just tried to save that pillar head as DAE to look at it in Blender, FS would not let me.

[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Dayturn can

[11:57] George Equus: Seem I can't delete those two link sets out front.

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: well i had no feedback about kitely issues still

[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you have sufficient privs to the mesh

[11:57] George Equus: FS can't unfortunately,

[11:57] Kayaker Magic: George, I'll try to tear that pillar head apart and see if it can be fixed. Bug me next week!

[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: If FS can't I wonder why the menu entry is still enabled in the viewer.

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: you need full rights kayker

[11:58] Kayaker Magic: God mode in my own region should fix that....

[11:58] George Equus: cool Kayaker! I will. good luck

[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FS should if you have full ownership to mesh and textures

[11:59] Kayaker Magic: But I have to go see a man about cutting down a tree in RL. Gota run!

[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. tc

[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Have fun

[11:59] Kayaker Magic: Bye for now!

[11:59] George Equus: Bye

[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Its the top of the hour. If there is nothing more for today we can wrap up this meeting.

[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: New viewer build was out on Monday

[12:00] George Equus: Didn't Singu allow DAE export?

[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a few fixes plus the ability to see all grid URIs for a grid

[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have also opened a support case with Apple Developer support on signing/notraizing the viewer

[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no easy fix I am afraid

[12:03] George Equus: Thanks for an interesting hour. Back to my project. Bye everyone.

[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye George

[12:03] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Bye everyone

[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye Selby

[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.