Chat log from the meeting on 2015-11-24

[10:52] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: j'ai une petite presentation a propos d'un systeme relatif à l'économie dans le metaverse j'espere que le boss ne va pas m'ejecter :) [10:57] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: do you have packets loss in this version? sometimes my avatar still blocked in my local sandbox :( and the console display red lines [10:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: viewer not show packetloss. but my clothing is misisng textures [10:57] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: wow, no chat echo in here [10:57] Shez Oyen: I'm having a lot of lag [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: no chat lag here [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: however that can happen as content is loading [10:57] Nebadon Izumi: it will probably subside [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: there is something like 4-5000 textures here [10:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is my pants textured for you ? [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its a good test region :) [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: yep [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: Jeans [10:58] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: what about chat echo in 0.9.0 [10:58] Shez Oyen: Rich yes [10:58] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ? [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: chat echo? [10:58] Nebadon Izumi: thats new to me [10:58] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: double in chat [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: first I am hearing of this, I am not sure [10:59] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: double Text or 3 times of Text [10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: strange, it's white for me. [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: what viewer? [10:59] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: singu [10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: singularity [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: im in Replex [10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did rebake, now it's fine [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i have not experienced the double chat [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: please File a mantis bug report [10:59] Shez Oyen: Sing here.. chat is normal but object very slow rezzing [10:59] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis [10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Not see double chat [10:59] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: its done in mantis [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: k good [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: bound to be some oddities poping up [11:00] Nebadon Izumi: its a big code change [11:00] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: hi jak :) thank you for your work on the oars :) [11:00] Jak Daniels: Hi Web... yw :) [11:00] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: sitpositions shifted in Z-direction [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: that is being worked on still I think [11:01] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev       dd9b06e: 2015-10-29 22:14:11 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Ubit is on his way I think [11:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: for the avination code you can only use the ubitode ? [11:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah we discussed sit positions last week iirc [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: maybe he can verify what is going on there [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: oh haha [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt see you walking up [11:02] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: i run the 0.9.0.0 since 4 hours [11:02] Ubit Umarov: ( its ubOde not ubitOde :p ) [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:02] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: simcross by vihicles works good [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: nice [11:03] Jak Daniels: I think the name's stuck ubit ;) [11:03] Ubit Umarov: ( and you can use ubOde, Ode, bullet etc = [11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: I did not looked at 0.8.2 waiting for soemthing else first [11:03] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: what the hell is ubODE ?????????? [11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Jak, it's still a problem if you type it wrong in the config [11:03] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: should i use it ? [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: its an updated ODE module from Avination by Ubit [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: :) [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: it allows for vars and stuff and border crossing [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: better optimizations [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that is what i mean, so bullet is not working then if... [11:04] Shy Robbiani: btw... apropos naming, can ubODE bee seen as ODE2? [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: no border crossing for bullet yet [11:04] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: do ubODE work on VAR ??? [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and probably even further off will be bullet to ODE crossing [11:04] Jak Daniels: no the dynamics are different [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ubeODE is closer to bulletsim and SL scripting wise [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: so old ODE stuff doesnt just work [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: it will ne adjustment [11:05] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: hi Ubit :) thank you for your good job ! thank's to diva too ^^ ~25% less in RAM usage and + the same in performances WaW bravo [11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Good question wolf. vbery imprtant that var works [11:05] Ubit Umarov: bullet should have borger crossing also [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: oh does it? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i missed that [11:05] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi everyone [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i miss everything anymore [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: its all happening so fast [11:05] Jak Daniels: U added the state transfer to that too ubit? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello Alicia [11:05] Ubit Umarov: ( all engines should work on vars now ) [11:06] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: #- OK ! -# [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: can you cross from Bullet to UbODE? [11:06] Shez Oyen: Hi Alicia :) [11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ubit, where's the disclaimer :) [11:06] Ubit Umarov: depends how suicidal u feel neb :) [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i need to set up another physics region for UbODE [11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol ubit [11:07] Jak Daniels: heh... set the ball dropper going again [11:07] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: witch brings the best performance ?....Bullet oder ubODE ??? [11:07] Ubit Umarov: but we should be able to cross.. think never tested [11:08] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: but the double and trible and quad CHAT-Output is bad [11:08] Ubit Umarov: wolf, you tell us :) [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: can you run ODE in its own Thread? [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: like Bulletsim? [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats really important for me [11:08] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: Wolf: are you experiencing that now? [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: to remove it from the heartbeat thread [11:09] Shez Oyen: Wolf are you using any kind of translator? sometimes they cause repeats [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, i run bullet anyway on own threat [11:09] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: yes i run 0.9.0.0 now [11:09] Ubit Umarov: no only bullet as a own thread option [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes me to im asking if ODE can [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:09] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: last time i saw double chat it was multiple regions on one sim, each processing the message [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: is it possible you think? [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: that makes a huge difference in performance of a simulator [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: with heavy physics [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: in my past testing with ODE i could get to about 600-1000 physical spheres [11:10] Ubit Umarov: yes alicia i had a bug on several scenes running on same instance [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it would start getting really terrible [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with bulletsim i went pask 100k once [11:10] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: i have 4 Regions on one Simulator [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: and it didnt crash [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i could still walk around actually [11:11] Ubit Umarov: both engines had good cases, not so good.. and disaster :) [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:11] Ubit Umarov: ..have.. [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya I need to give it a try, i just havent had the time yet [11:12] Ubit Umarov: well thats a reason to have 2 options [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: im all for it, i hope we get even more options [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i really want to see micasim work again [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: sucks that no one is maintaining it [11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: micasim ? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: http://forge.opensimulator.org/legacy-projects/MICASimulator [11:13] Ubit Umarov: ( ubOde will not run old ode vehicles very well, like bullet ) [11:13] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: are there important changes in opensim.ini for the 0.9.0.0 ??? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its a N Body Newtonian Physics Module for opensim [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM4fmL6dLdY [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: really neat. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: but it hasnt worked in a long while [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: some changes we did a long while back broke compatibaility [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: no one ever fixed it [11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it looks more like some battle ants simulator :O [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it was fun to play with [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you could do black holes and stuff [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: you set density in the description of the object if i recall [11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Noo, we already have enough holes :O [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: i think i cant use the 0.9.0 cause of this fuck Chat-Echo [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: have you tried a different viewer? [11:18] Ubit Umarov: think echo is gone now [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: maybe need a newer version? [11:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: i use Singlarity, latest version [11:19] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: and Fireszorm [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is this something you fixed Ubit? [11:19] Ubit Umarov: yeap [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ok so its probably just not in the osgrid release [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yet [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: this stuff is happening fast [11:19] Ubit Umarov: on several regions per instance.. there was a nasty eco [11:19] Shy Robbiani: things go fast :) [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: we would have to make like 4 updates a day to keep up right now [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, do you think it would take a lot of work to get that micasimulator module working again? [11:20] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: may be the Chat - Mistake is on win/.net only ???? [11:20] Ubit Umarov: also a teleport issue :) [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know Ubit looked at micasim breifly [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i have to say I dont understand it at all [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: it is a physics engine after all [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, right. [11:21] Ubit Umarov: just browsed its code neb [11:21] Shez Oyen: There's Robert :) [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: The first step is see if it still compiles. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: im sure it wont compile in our current code [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: without adjustments [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its a very old add on [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: like 2 refactors ago [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: or more [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, the region module loading stuff did change [11:21] Ubit Umarov: needs to be converted to region module, get api updated etc [11:21] Robert Adams: now what has the physics engine done? [11:21] Shez Oyen: lol [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: talking about micasim [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and how to revive it :) [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it replace the existing engine or work with one? [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i could have sworn it either was ODE or Stacked on ODE [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but Ubit made it sound like its a standalone physics engine [11:22] Robert Adams: don't know what that is [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I may have a go at trying to get it to compile. [11:22] Jak Daniels: it looks like a region physics module [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: http://forge.opensimulator.org/legacy-projects/MICASimulator [11:22] Ubit Umarov: i looked standalone plugin.. but not sure [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM4fmL6dLdY [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Problem is that both my branches of OpenSIm are currently broken. I need to get them fixed before I can do any more development. [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: incase you missed :) [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: its pretty old Misterblue [11:23] Ubit Umarov: what 2 branchs ? [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: 0.8.2 and master. I have uncommitted changes and now have merge conflicts after I tried to update my copies of the code. [11:24] Ubit Umarov: ohh ok [11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is 0.8.2 already released or still on rc2 ? [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: There are times I really hate git. [11:24] Robert Adams: Adding new physics engines should be as easy as adding a new module to the region [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to avoid losing my code changes. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea it was functional at one time Robert [11:25] Robert Adams: people have done traffic simulators (many cars on many streets) and I've seen several planetary simulators [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: but there has been 2 or 3 region module refactors since then [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: yea Mic did a nice one with SUMO [11:25] Robert Adams: Mic had an n-body simulator a while back [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and we have our own custom module for Encitra [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: for traffic [11:28] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: teebreake ? [11:28] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: no one is typing [11:29] Shy Robbiani: I had a lot of issues and crashes with the recently released Mono 4 versions on Debian 8, but it's definitely Mono and probably on 64-bit Debian only [11:29] Ubit Umarov: there was also a issue with mono 3.12 [11:30] Ubit Umarov: i bypassed it [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: sorrry i got a call from Sweden [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: im back [11:30] Jak Daniels: same on centos 6 too, I'm rolling back from 4.2.1 [11:30] Shy Robbiani: I switched back to the standard 3.2.8 and all is fine [11:30] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: Sweden is near germany [11:30] Ubit Umarov: ( well i hope.. dan will test it later ) [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: dan said same thing to me in IM this morning [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: about 3.12 crashing with 0.9 [11:31] Ubit Umarov: yeap [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that is why this region is on 0.8.3 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt start up or something [11:31] Ubit Umarov: show stats [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: we havent talked [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: something we can fix? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not a mono bug or somethihng? [11:31] Ubit Umarov: hope i already did [11:31] Shy Robbiani: 3.12 and some of the firt 4.0 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ah fantastic [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: thanks man [11:31] Shy Robbiani: a mono bug, I'm quite sure... [11:31] Ubit Umarov: yeap a documented mono bug [11:31] Shy Robbiani: I closed my open issues [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: Sisyphus runs 4.3 [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: from mono git [11:32] Shy Robbiani: 64 bit? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I think OSCC is on 4.0.4 [11:32] Shy Robbiani: I never experienced reproducable problems on 32-bit debian installs [11:33] Shy Robbiani: never is not correct, there were bas builds in-between [11:33] Shy Robbiani: *bad [11:35] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: yes [11:36] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: but i dont know how to fix that chat bug [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: try different opensim version ? [11:36] Robert Adams: everything is running so well that no one has any issues! [11:36] Ubit Umarov: what chat bug the echo? [11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mabye change network bandcwidth in the viewer [11:36] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: yes, an echo [11:36] Ubit Umarov: update the region :) [11:37] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: since i changed from 0.8.3 to 0.9.0 [11:37] Ubit Umarov: i did code on that today wolf [11:37] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ok# thx [11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( possible there is no chat now.. details :p ) [11:38] Shy Robbiani: lol [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: sorry i keep getting callls lol someone else [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: anyway ya we will try to get a new oSG release out soon [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: with the fix [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: when danbanner has a moment to do so I am sure he will [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: he will test here first [11:39] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: and the Simulator makes Maptile-Updates every 20min...but i did not tell him to do this lol# [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you know i noticed that too [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps something slipped into one of the ini files [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: that was a bug i fxied long ago [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: in Grid.ini i think [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: there was a hard code for maptile gen timer [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that should not have been there, it forced timer to always run which is bad [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: memory leak [11:40] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ah, yes [11:40] Ubit Umarov: errr hmmm coff cofff [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: haha i'll take a look shortly [11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( think i forced a value when i was fixing it on initial merge.. ) [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: is robust not supporting show stats. see mailing list question [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ok that should get undone [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i noticed it at sisyphus [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i was like what the heck why is it regnerating map but it slipped my mind [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: so much going on [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: anybody know if "show stats: work on robust 0.8.2 ? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt think robust had stats [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: like that [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there are some individual things you can invoke probably [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think there is a concise panel for robust [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC is coming up quick [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hope you guys wil all Attend [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Alicia and Ubit will you be on the Developer Panel ? [11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what's on the schedule ? :O [11:45] Ubit Umarov: im a noob here :) [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: http://oscc.avacon.org [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: well it would be good for you to talk a little about the merge [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie and Diva and I will be tehre [11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Ubit. nah. you going to lose that [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew said he would come [11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: whats the date neb? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Id like to get a few more core devs [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Dec 5th [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: just an hour or so [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its a panel so you dont need any prepared speech or anything [11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yep i will be there [11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: cool [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: awesome can you send me best email to contact you [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and I will have someone get the ball rolling [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... timing could be interesting. First Saturday of the month I have a grid staff meeting. [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ah robert left I guess [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: or crashed [11:47] Ubit Umarov: or guessed you where going to talk about this ;) [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: um... correction, grid residents meeting. [11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( kidding ) [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: Ubit what is best email for you? [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: im me if you want [11:51] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok i passed on details to joyce [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: she will contact you guys about the panel [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: everyone else please register for OSCC if you are going [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: http://oscc.avacon.org for now [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: and hope you all enjoy Thanks Giving if you are in the US or other places that celebrate it [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: be safe :) [11:54] Ubit Umarov: u2 :) [11:54] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: when is it neb ? thanksgiving. lazy to use google [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: Thursday [11:54] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: at the beginning of this year I discovered a system that can be used to create an economic background to the metaverse avoiding tragedies such as that of AviNation and completely outside the scope of companies and monopolies like virowx ... - Can be used with LSL - You can create one or more currencies - An embedded marketplace that does not tax you 20% of the sales price - An asset exchange that can be used to raise capitals for Opensim projects but most important is that it frees the grids owners from the legal responsibility and liability as currency issuer can i give you the link to read about? [11:54] Shy Robbiani: thank you, you too [11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: local account needed or hg ok neb? [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: HG is fine for the panel members [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: if you had to do scripts or soemthing then need local [11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: ok cool [11:57] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: yes? no? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Web we cant really support currency platforms [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the risk is to high [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i would suggest to all core devs that we abstain in public from really supporting them [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there are a ton of legal ramifications to these kind of systems [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that cant be taken lightly [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: a purely credit system would be fine [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: but tieing into real world money I would say officially the core project cant support them [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: other than hooks [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: to allow for things to operate correctly [11:58] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: is one! but i share your opinion on this [11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if you want to burn your fingers. that's a good corner. and e-mails erve ris another one [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: I am not against people devleoping these systems externally to the project though [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks wonders why LioneLL is wearing a box. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: but the core project will never really give its stamp of approval or promote it [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: if you do pursue it please consult a lawyer [12:00] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: thank's all :) was instructive for me [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: A marketplace using the inworld currency system could be interesting. [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok i have to run I have some testing in Encitra grid i need to attend to [12:01] Web.Rain @hg.francogrid.org: it's an all-in-one tool box [12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i mean in core money is good for some burning fingers. yes