Chat log from the meeting on 2015-06-30

[11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone [11:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi andrew [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon said he may not make it to todays meeting. [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: then i think it get a silent meeting :O [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not have to say much right now [11:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.82 m). [11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (6.09 m). [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have anything. I was going to work on a mod to the ossearch module but I haven't done all the changes I had planned. [11:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.22 m). [11:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 waves....sorry I'm late [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Dahlia. [11:06] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi dahlia, aine [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, aine. [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: It might be a short meeting today. [11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi aine dahlia [11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and hi all [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon said he was not at home and he wasn't sure if he would get back in time for todays meeting. [11:07] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.51 m). [11:07] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.91 m). [11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: has Justin given up working on Opensim now or is he simply too busy with other work for the time being? [11:08] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.32 m). [11:09] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: hello all [11:09] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think he said he's pretty busy with his new job [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Not so much given up on it as moved on to other things. [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's too bad [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: He might still contribute to OS now and then but it won't be with the frequency of updates from him as in the past. [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Apparently he has been working on OS stuff for about years. [11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 wonders if that means the larger outstanding larger bugs are unlikely to get any attention at all now [11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: slightly longer than I have I believe [11:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I started around 2008 [11:13] madmax huet kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.14 m). [11:13] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is starting to feel old :( [11:14] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Your still shiny and noi rust dahlia [11:14] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, looks like nebadon may be joining us after all. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi kommt in Chat-Reichweite (13.59 m). [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [11:19] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit.. [11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: get your list with problems !, if you have one [11:19] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hi neb [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, nebadon [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: You made it after all. [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: sorry I am late, was out and took longer to get back than I expected [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: blame the tourists nebadon [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I did pass on the fact that you might not make it. [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya I actually thought it would take me longer to get back [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: so what did I miss :) [11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the sound of silence [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: We haven't talked about much. There was a question about Justin change in jobs and mostly leaving work on OS. [11:21] Lucy.Afarensis @hypergrid.org:8002: thatwas it [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ah yes, Justin has been busy with new line of work [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: his time for opensimulator will remain very limited for a while [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: he won't completely disappear but he also wont have a lot of time for it either [11:23] Sarah Kline kommt in Chat-Reichweite (12.52 m). [11:23] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: without justin, im worried opensim development will slow to a crawl, he did so much [11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 has much the same concern [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought about that too. [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps a slow walk rather than a crawl. There are a few others still working on OS on a regular basis. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: well development usually comes in waves anyway [11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: there are people who chip in little bits and pieces and the occasional fix there and there, but he was the one typically to tackle any of the larger bugfixes [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: Diva is still working hard on it and moses will be commiting a lot more patches over time [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so without anyone doing that, it seems like "status quo and live with it" will be the mantra for at least the foreseeable future [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I don't think things will slow down too much [11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: sure, but if anything that tends to be "lets code shiny new stuff" rather than the ugly, boring work of fixing old bugs [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Melanie still drops in some code changes now and then [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: Misterblue said he has been busy lately but I think he will have some more time too hopefully [11:25] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hopefully community involvement will increase [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Its pretty typical come begining of summer for things to slow down a lot [11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup [11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but it feels for people mabye a bit slower then ormal [11:26] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: there was a lot of community involvement before justing decided to do OpenSim full time [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I mainly tackle small stuff. I don't feel I have the time to dig that deep in to the code base to handle some of the things that need fixing. [11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: better not andrew, not sure who is getting you out of that web :) [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Even a one line fix of mine got rejected a while ago so it would be even harder for me to do something big. [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: brb have to relog [11:27] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [11:27] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i will keep uploading patches when i can, i think i need to make time to dig deeper into the code myself and learn more [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I've got too many other projects. I have at least a half dozen scripted gadgets of mine to finish [11:28] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit.. [11:28] Nebadon Izumi kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.89 m). [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: [11:27 AM] Nebadon Izumi is Offline [11:27 AM] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [11:27 AM] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i will keep uploading patches when i can, i think i need to make time to dig deeper into the code myself and learn more [11:28 AM] Nebadon Izumi is Online [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: doh cache cleared :) had to change computers [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you need everything again, nebadon? [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya if anyone has patches that need to go in, feel free to let me know right away [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew, maybe just at the end you or someone can send me the whole transcript [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: thanks [11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, what is the max size u would use for a var region, 768x768? [11:32] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.84 m). [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya personally I would try to stay to 1024 or under [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: The suggestion has been nothing larger than an 8x8. [11:32] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: im thinking about pushing it an extra 256 [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I prefer 768 myself [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: 1024 would be 4x4. [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its a nice balance between size and limiting yourself to how much content any 1 simulator gets [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you just need to be sensible about it [11:33] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.21 m). [11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think Justin's comment a while back as 4x4 [11:33] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.35 m). [11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it rather depends what you're putting in it [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you can not expect that if you are running a 2048x2048 that you can fit 64 regions worth of content in it [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: if you are sensible with your design its ok to push a little larger as long as you keep the limits in mind [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. 8x8 fully populated var would be pushing things. On the other hand, if it was going to stay mostly empty (like a large water area) it wouldn't be as bad. [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: that your simulator really cant hold anymore content than a stndard 256m2 region can [11:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (12.16 m). [11:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: sorry viewer crashed [11:34] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: yea, we were wanting to have larger regions but more spreadout, i think alot of people are thinking in SL terms still and packing alot in a small space [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so if you have good design then size of var doesnt mater as much [11:34] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: so did mine [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately a lot of people want to treat a 1024x1024m var the same as 16 independant regions [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: thats just a recipe for a bad time [11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah [11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: like making a 4x4 residential strikes me as nuts [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it depends [11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but a 8x8 sailing sim would be fine [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: if you have lots of space in between each building then its fine [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it really just depends on your goals [11:35] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i wish i could enable the new parcel layer sending by distance, but i had problems with parcel lines showing that didnt exist [11:36] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: Do they have to be square? [11:36] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont think so [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: vars? [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Usage of the var will have the biggest impact on what you can do and how big you can make a var while keeping performance from suffering. [11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: thats a major limiting factor, if the whole regions parcel data is resent every time some one clicks the terrain [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I thought they did need to be square at the moment [11:36] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I have non-square vars [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: AFAIK, vars have to be square. [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ah interesting [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Not sure why. [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I thought they had to be square but to be honest I never tried [11:37] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: nope [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, what are some sizes you have? [11:37] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: rectangles? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: they have to atleast be rectangle I think [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: cant do L shapes or donuts or anything [11:37] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: mine are usually 1024 or smaller [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I meant your non-square ones. [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: don't get me wrong I am all for people experimenting with insanely gigantic var regions [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: my max is 3x3 [11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh I think I have a 256x512 on osgrid [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... a donut var. :) [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: as long as you keep your expectations in check [11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: "Pirate's Harbor" is 256x512 [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: my Sisyphus region is set for 1536x1536 [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: did not know it can be reectangle [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but it has maybe like 6000 prims total or something [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I think the one main restriction is the the size has to be a multiple of 256m. [11:38] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: amn around 17000 prims on some [11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I dont know any reason why it couldn't be a rectanble [11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: *rectangle [11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...I think people tend to get kind of script/toy happy in residential type sims which is fine when there aren't 50 other residences on the same instance also doing that [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: I thought it was something because of the map [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps certain things dont work 100% in rectangle [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: but it still starts up ok [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Not always the number of scripts but their run times that can kill a region. [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya but thats true even on normal regions Andrew [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: A single script can pull things down even on a regular region. [11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: map usually doesn't work for me on any size var, square or not [11:39] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i thought it was the same reason differnt sizes couldnt be put next to each other, viewer doesnt like it lol [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: brb afk a sec [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but the other day I was in a 4x4 sim that was filled with stores and assorted other stuff and the owner was building a full club to go there too, and I'm thinking to myself that if more than 4 people show up the region will crash and burn [11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1 simulator is running 2 3x3 var's around 17000 prims each i think [11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but almost o scripts [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Alicia, yea, that is what I heard. It was believed to cause a viewer some sort of indigestion if you put vars of different sizes next to each other. [11:40] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Aine, ya that sounds bad [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: like trying to host 15 Wright Plazas on a sim and then add a club [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, the other day I had 18 people on a 2x2(?) var [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hehe, no 48 core is going to help [11:41] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: I was at a sim that was standard size surronded by 4 big Vars [11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's all about content, Andriw [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if it's a relatively "light" 2x2 no problem [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: will it with mesh and scripts and textures and nifty toys and it's going to be very unpleasant [11:42] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *fill [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure of the prim count. It is being used to celebrate Canada Day and the US Independance Day holidays [11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh for an event/ [11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ? [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: There are a number of vendor carts around and a stage in one corner for live performers. [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, yea [11:43] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: so they wont know it's bad until the event starts? 0.p [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Week long celebration [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: already started. [11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: people tend not to think about how well their regions will scale to population [11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they figure if they can be in it, building, it will be fine with 15 otherpeople sudddenly tp into it [11:45] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: If one of them is on a slow connection it can crap things up [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is one of the bugs, too, to not be able to disallow direct HGtp into a region [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of mesh objects in the region can affect it. This var has lots of mesh trees and the carts for vendors to use are also mesh. [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, a single latent viewer will kill the entire thing [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be good to get that fixed in OS. [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: back [11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yet another bug that looks like it won't be getting any attention since Justin is the one who was going to tackle that back in January [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: A single viewer with a bad connection should not ruin life for everyone else in the region. [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it shouldn't, but it does/can [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect the Moses team is going to be looking quite hard at some of that stuff [11:46] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hmm I thought you needed the "GridHypergrid" configuration to allow direct hypergrid tp? or did that break? [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I know diva has interest in improving that stuff too [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's broken, Dahlia [11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I reported it in Mantis [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7622 [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: did it ever work? [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'm not 100% sure [11:47] Lucy.Afarensis @98.222.144.119:9088: Hvaing neibor sims that are not on line can cause problems [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: to be honest I didnt think we were ever able to stop HG visitors [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but I assume it must have, Neb [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because you used it in OSCC [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no we didnt [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: actually [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ive never used that [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC its all group permissions [11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then how did you force HG arrivals to only that one region? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and if your not in the righ group [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: seems like some network connections are holding things up until something times out and it moves on. [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: it deverts you to the default [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: thats why it appears to work like you think [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but its actually not the same [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: OSCC was all groups control [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a HG visitor, even with the correct group, could still only arrive in "HG arrivals" and then tp from there, though.....or am I wrong? [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I can say for sure though I personally have never tried "NoDirectLogin" [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: well for OSCC the landing zones were all group owned [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: and all HG visitors had thier own group [11:50] Lance Fang: hello Ni [11:50] Lance Fang: long time no see [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so basically you would almost always be diverted to your proper landing zone [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: no matter what you did [11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm....okay [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but that requires 100% group control everywhere [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: which is probaly not desirable [11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not practical for a more general use, unfortunately [11:50] Ni Lemon: Hello Lance [11:50] Ni Lemon: good evening [11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I thought you couldn't hg tp in if you did not use the "GridHypergrid.ini" config but I can't say I've tried it in a long time [11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and that setting would be extremely good [11:51] Lance Fang kommt in Chat-Reichweite (19.76 m). [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea ok I will ask Diva to take look [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but honestly I would be surprised if it ever worked right for HG [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: there might be a way to limit HG visitors though by changing the simulator settings [11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the goal would be for high traffic regions to be able to divert any direct logins to a "safe" arrival region instead [11:51] Ni Lemon kommt in Chat-Reichweite (8.86 m). [11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: you can disallow them completely as a sim level [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: right you just want the intial teleport diverted? [11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it's an all-or-nothing thing [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: not all teleports right? [11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: right [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats tough one [11:52] Ni Lemon: sorry for being late, good evening you all [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure its possible but we can find out [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ni, no worries, I was also late today :) [11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I want the high impact "arriving in grid" hit to be handled by a region that is designed for it [11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then from there they can tp [11:52] Ni Lemon: pleasd to see you Nebs [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea it makes sense Aine, I am just not sure we have any capabilities as of right now to handle that [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: because then when they enter the region it's just like a local TP [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I will see what Diva thinks when she is back around [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and if it involves new code.... [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: she is traveling at the moment [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it would also be very nice to be able to disallow local user login to a specific region too [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think that was the initial intent of that setting [11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when 30 people all crash at a party they can't log right back in to that sim and kill it again [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: not really HG [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but maybe I am wrong [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that said though, I know the goal of the MOSES team is to fix a lot of this stuff [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: its probably going to take some time though [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: to improve logins etc.. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats one of the reasons their first steps have been programming new ways to evaluate statistics more accurately [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I think they're tackling it in a very logical way [11:56] Lucy Afarensis kommt in Chat-Reichweite (13.69 m). [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: they have very limited staff as well [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i think they only have 3 or 4 people total [11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: they need metrics to be able to measure whether subsequent code tweaks are doing what they should be [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so its just going to take some time [11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the only thing that worries me about that (a little) is they have very specific end-use in mind [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yes they do [11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i was thinking the same aine [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: They are also still getting their dev structure in place and learning how to best work with the other OS developers. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but the fact remains if they dont sure up the foundation a lot [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: they will never reach their goal [11:58] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so they're likely not going to address issues that don't affect their needs, and are likely to introduce things that benefit their needs but might break/hurt things for other users [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think some of their early mistakes [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: were trying to make vast improvements to systems that you just can not improve without fixing lots of other things first [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and for them it caused tons of set backs and failures [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: I think they are finally realizing that if they need to get to where they want to be, you must first fix the base functionality [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: cant just slap a new physics engine on and expect it to fix everything [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: like DSG for instance [12:00] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: gotta run, bye all :) [12:00] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye dahlia [12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia [12:00] Lucy Afarensis: bye [12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye [12:00] Ni Lemon: Bye Dahlia [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: great concept, but plagued by issues in the core of opensim itself [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: bye, Dahlia [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: DSG was most definitely jumping the gun in terms of trying to improve performance if you ask me [12:01] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev       f4dfdbb: 2015-06-28 13:52:45 -0400 (Unix/Mono) [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: anyway, don't fret cause things are slow, it really has nothing to do with Justin being away [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: its just the time of year [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Once they have their development methodology in place things should pick up from their side. [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: things will pickup again, more work will get done [12:03] Pebbles Flintstone: hello Lavender and Lance [12:03] Pebbles Flintstone kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.01 m). [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: It always takes a while to get in to working on a new project. [12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...well we can hope, I guess....in the meantime I guess learn to love the bugs we have [12:04] Ni Lemon: it's good to built good foundations or it can be like a statue with cotton feet [12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'll be heading off then....have a good week everyone [12:04] Lucy Afarensis: bye [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, at least you know about them. Its the ones that you don't know about that can bite you.