Chat log from the meeting on 2010-06-29

[09:53] Lani Global is Online [09:53] Dave Coyle is Online [09:53] Penny Lane: Opensim round table? [09:54] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, WhiteStar [09:54] Nebadon Izumi: hey Whitestar [09:54] Dahlia Trimble is Online [09:54] WhiteStar Magic: Howdy Folks [09:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, nebadon [09:55] Region Showcase Kiosk: Received 29 regions from database. [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: i restarted this sim a couple hours ago [09:55] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully it holds up for the whole meeting [09:56] Andrew Hellershanks: :-) [09:56]  Nebadon Izumi: seemed a little low on FPS before i logged in [09:56]  WhiteStar Magic: so hows things Andrew ? [09:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: They are going. [09:56]  Richardus Raymaker is Online [09:56]  Dave Coyle: just have to keep lbsa up so people don't get dumped here. :) [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: actually [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya your right [09:56] Nebadon Izumi: i never did change that [09:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Just going over changes I've made to osseach and wiredux [09:57] WhiteStar Magic: Great [09:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Hard to make meaningful diffs easily when the code in version control uses Windows line endings [09:57] WhiteStar Magic: would be nice to have a more functional search [09:58] Andrew Hellershanks: That's what I'm working on. [09:58] Nebadon Izumi: heh wi-redux is such a mess [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: really you shoudl be working on SimianGrid [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: if you want a meaningful web interface with search [09:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to decide if Snapshot should save show region category as a string or just a number. NUmber would be easier to save converting it back to number later [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: not that search works [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: but i think it would be more beneficial overall to make it work on simiangrid [09:59] Richardus Raymaker: hi all [09:59] Nebadon Izumi: also are you using Wi-Refux from SVN? [10:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't use wiredux other than the occasional bit of minor admin stuff (setting grid status to online/offline). [10:00] Meadhbh Oh: rez faster, damn'd world [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:00] Fleep Tuque is Online [10:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, with the patches [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: this sim is pretty heavy Meadhbh [10:00] WhiteStar Magic: LOL [10:00] Richardus Raymaker: it rez fast [10:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I have it to where I can see the grid map in wiredux now [10:00] Andrew Hellershanks: wiredux now gives me meaningful grid coordinates in region list and in region details [10:00] Nebadon Izumi: cool [10:00] Meadhbh Oh: to be fair, i'm on a slow computer on a marginally slow network connection [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: if you want i can give you access to check code in [10:01]  Nebadon Izumi: if you want [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: just apply for taht project [10:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Cool. [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: i'll give you admin status [10:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: i wont have time for it pretty much ever again [10:01] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:01] Meadhbh Oh: and it's not NEARLY as slow as when i connect to an opensim instance running on virtualized ubuntu on my netbook's atom270 cpu [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: this sim has 850mb of content [10:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I just hope I don't mess up things vs. what coding style and standards are used in the project. :-) [10:02] Nebadon Izumi: its a massive build [10:02]  Dave Coyle: wiredux is beyond standards [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we uses the No Standard Standard [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: its like a 10 layer lasanga of standards [10:02]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:03]  Justin Clark-Casey is Online [10:03]  Meadhbh Oh: how very zen, nebadon [10:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. I have seen how much of a mess it is. Even the style sheet used for the login page is a mess. I have my own login screen with a much simpler bit of coding that looks mostly like the one from wiredux [10:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, hehe [10:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [10:04]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have a sort of coding style these days which is mostly from what I have to try and follow while working on GIMP. [10:04]  BlueWall Slade: Hello [10:04]  Nebadon Izumi: really at the time Redux was a hack job so we could dev opensim [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: it was never designed for actual use [10:04] WhiteStar Magic: Good Day JCC & Otaku [10:04] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Nebadon. [10:04] Nebadon Izumi: if i have one regret about redux, is that so many people adopted it [10:05]  Nebadon Izumi: even Intel used it [10:05]  Nebadon Izumi: actually they still do [10:05]  Nebadon Izumi: for ScienceSim main grid [10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: now there's something you don't hear every day [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: its still useing that interface [10:05] Andrew Hellershanks: It has some useful admin functions which I have used (adding last names) and changing grid status [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya it has some nice stuff [10:05] Nebadon Izumi: but overall its very messy, incomplete [10:05] Dahlia Trimble: hi [10:05]  Nebadon Izumi: the PHP formatting is just horrid [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: it uses ASP style [10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: Rookiie Roux was a windows dev [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: he wrote it on IIS [10:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. There are features I would like to see for admining estate stuff. [10:06] Meadhbh Oh: gah. php makes me feal like a battered spouse [10:06] Andrew Hellershanks: eww [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya tis a mess [10:06] Richardus Raymaker: i neve rgot grip on asp style [10:06] Dave Coyle: and wiredux comes with free sql injections with every purchase! [10:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I have no problem with PHP. The code I generate with PHP is made to be human readable. [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya everyone keeps saying that Dave [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: yet ive never heard 1 person say it happened [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: not ever [10:07] Andrew Hellershanks: um... the HTML code I generate with PHP ... [10:07] Nebadon Izumi: so if its possible, no ones done it [10:07]  Meadhbh Oh: the sad think is i keep going back, cause it's so damn'd ubiquitous [10:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Dave, hehe [10:07] OtakuMegane Desu: PHP is actually quite nice, but you have to know wtf you're doing. [10:07] OtakuMegane Desu: It's not like a lot of other languages that simply won't work if you don't do everything properly. [10:08] Meadhbh Oh: the problem with PHP is it's inconsistent. like the whole passing booleans to parent constructors thing [10:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya so much good stuff is written in pHP, but i agree i struggle making apps from teh ground up in PHP [10:08] Andrew Hellershanks: When I did avatar selection for a grid I used mysqli to avoid possible SQL injection issues [10:08] Richardus Raymaker: Good we dont use basic anymore :) thats messy [10:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not using PHP in object oriented mode. [10:08]  Meadhbh Oh: (there was a bug in 5.0 for a long tume that you couldn't pass booleans as function parameters to constructors in your parent class) [10:08]  Meadhbh Oh: that's the kind of thing that kills me about PHP [10:08]  Meadhbh Oh: and PERL too [10:09]  OtakuMegane Desu: It's not perfect but it's not that bad either. Just have to learn proper programming and remember when and where it's an appropriate language to use. [10:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still more of a Perl 4 guy than Perl 5 [10:09]  Fleep Tuque is Offline [10:09]  Dahlia Trimble: ewwww perl [10:09]  Meadhbh Oh: but languages like haskell and ERLANG require a tremendous amount of knowledge to understand what to do with them [10:09]  Nebadon Izumi: ya Erlang seems like it could be limiting since its only 32bit? [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: only thinbg with php sometimes not easy to debug. besides variable exchange is not easy always to [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: i dont know much about it [10:10]  kopilo hallard: mmm lua [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: but i use Wings3D alot which is written in Erlang [10:10] Meadhbh Oh: gah. spatial chat misordering. gah [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: and it sucks because 32 bit [10:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to make sense of how openSim communicates with the viewer to pass back search results while not being able to look at what the viewer does [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: after lots of reasearch Erlang doesnt support x64 at all [10:10] Richardus Raymaker: sti;ll php it pretty nice to use for things [10:10] OtakuMegane Desu: Well, tht's a bit of a problem lol [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: Have you looked at flyman's code? [10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: laaaaarrrrrggggg [10:10] Meadhbh Oh: i'm going to rewrite all my php code in assembly, just so i appreciate PHP more [10:11] BlueWall Slade: lol, perl works for some things [10:11] Imaze Rhiano: hello world [10:11] OtakuMegane Desu: Lol [10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya we need to work on making logins more streamline [10:11] Edie Stewart is Online [10:11] Penny Lane: Hi Imaze :-) [10:11]  BlueWall Slade: yow, I got tossed to 0,0,0 [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: it sucks the sim pretty much comes to a complete halt every time someone logs in [10:11]  Dahlia Trimble: world? oops Im in the wrong place [10:11]  Quilzie Xemax: Anything is better than PHP's "standard" library. [10:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: have you had any experience of snoopy's change to script loading (?) [10:11]  Richardus Raymaker: yes that 0.0.0 problem am seeing more last time [10:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi penny [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: when was that change Justin [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you that post-fixes master is totally busted [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: we had to roll back [10:11]  BlueWall Slade: ping [10:11]  Nebadon Izumi: and i had to make a new release [10:12]  OtakuMegane Desu: Hope we're not back to the frezze-on-login again :/ [10:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: what do you mean by totally busted? [10:12] Penny Lane: Hi Justin :-) [10:12]  Richardus Raymaker: hi all [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: its not as Bad Otaku, but it never truly went away [10:12]  BlueWall Slade: . [10:12]  Dahlia Trimble: 0.6.9-post-fixes nebadon? [10:12]  OtakuMegane Desu: Figures [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: yes Dahlia [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: it takes a sim like WP [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: mostly with scripting [10:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: snoopy's change was in master (and now 0.7-post-fixes) back on 23rd June [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: oh ok, my 0.7 testing has been on hold [10:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: though it would onlyi be in post-fixes since today, I think [10:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you somewhere in the last like 8-10 patches on post-fixes there is a nasty break [10:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: how is 0.6.9-posg-fixes busted [10:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: what kind of break? [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: scripts dont load [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: sounds dont play [10:13] Andrew Hellershanks: crash #1 [10:13] Meadhbh Oh: yeah richardus. i wouldn't write an operating system in PHP, but it does a good job for a lot of web appy kind of things [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: it seems like something with Xengine [10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: is that mantis 4775? [10:13] Timothy Hoxley: would you suggest running the 0.6.9 rlease on opensim site then? [10:13] Penny Lane: Dahlia: what version were you running on EC2? [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: yes i think so Justinc [10:13] Nebadon Izumi: thats whitestars? [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: from the last comment Melanie is looking at it [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [10:14] Dahlia Trimble: 0.6.9-post-fixes [10:14] Richardus Raymaker: so the last version on osgrid site is safe ? [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think she is [10:14]  BlueWall Slade: I am sitting @ <0,0,0> and there appears to be a large square objec in the mini-map [10:14] Dahlia Trimble: but I think I was having mono problems [10:14] Penny Lane: Aha [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: but maybe i will remind her [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: timothy: yeah, I recommend sticking with release versions [10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: her last comment was very recent :) [10:14]  Timothy Hoxley: ah alright. [10:14]  Richardus Raymaker: sounds dont play for me. and i use older version. (your sound boxes nebadon) [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: The OSgrid Release [10:14]  Richardus Raymaker: other heared the sound btw [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: is the last known good working post-fixes hash [10:14]  BlueWall Slade: I see Justin and Akira here too [10:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: as you can see, 0.6.9 is pretty good but post-fixes is currently not so great [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: relog BlueWall [10:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: I tried to say earlier that PHP feels familiar if you have used C and/or Perl in the past [10:15]  Cronix Shock: Andrew, so if i know php and perl, u recommend C#? [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: C# is probably more like Java [10:16]  Nebadon Izumi: then anything [10:16]  Cronix Shock: eeew [10:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Cronix, not sure about that. I don't really know C# but it looks like a better way to add OOP to C than C with gObjects. [10:16] Cronix Shock: i frikkin hate java for a passion [10:16] Quilzie Xemax: Ow, that's not a nice thing to say about Java. ;) [10:16] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:16]  Cronix Shock: ;) [10:16] Cronix Shock: just my opinion [10:16] Random Walker: C# is Delphi with C-like syntax :) [10:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: why is 0.7 testing on hold btw, waiting for rc2? [10:17]  Cronix Shock: its a great programming language [10:17]  Cronix Shock: i just cant deal with it [10:17]  Timothy Hoxley: java is alright. [10:17]  OtakuMegane Desu: Java is good for p2p, torrent clients and really horrible ads :P [10:17]  Cronix Shock: same with javascript [10:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: Cronix, it depends on what projects you want to work with, or what you want to do programming wise in general. [10:17]  Quilzie Xemax: And sorry Cronix, chat lag moved my comment down. It was in response to Neb. [10:17]  Richardus Raymaker: so then C# must work fine for me, im used to delphi [10:17]  Cronix Shock: everytime i think i figured how it works, it kicks me in the butt [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ah I am moving Justin [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: i get my keys on the 1st [10:17] Richardus Raymaker: so then C# must work for me, im used to delphi :) now only ide for linux [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: in RL [10:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: oh right, congratulations :) [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: so next few weeks my focus is moving into new house [10:18] Richardus Raymaker: congrat nebadon [10:18] Andrew Hellershanks: AN RL house? [10:18] Andrew Hellershanks: :-) [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: thanks guys, ya bit stressful, but glad to be moving [10:18]  Richardus Raymaker: the worst thing with moveing to new home. -no internet- :) [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: much nicer house, much quieter nieghborhood [10:18] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, moving in RL is a real pain. [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i wont be 1 block from elementry school [10:18] Cronix Shock: Andrew, im mainly intrerested in coding stuff for linux / messing with the android OS so i gues it would be C++ [10:18] Penny Lane: Neb: What's the computer room like? :-) [10:18] Nebadon Izumi: no more waking up at 7am to pledge of allegience [10:18]  Cronix Shock: ^^ [10:18]  Andrew Hellershanks: Cronix, I'm not a fan of C++ [10:19]  Warin Cascabel is Online [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: actually new house is nice, i will get a whole room for just my computers now :) [10:19] Penny Lane: Cool ;-) [10:19]  Meadhbh Oh: gObject isn't _THAT_ bad. if yuo need performance, i likeit better than C++. [10:19]  Cronix Shock: anyway all those compiling languages seem to be pretty hard for me [10:19]  Richardus Raymaker: now nebadon wished RL where like osgrid. when you need to pack. [10:19]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, excellent [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: right [10:19]  Dahlia Trimble: Neb, Cox still? [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: i wish i could just use OAR [10:19]  Cronix Shock: lmao [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: same package i have now 25 down 6 up [10:20]  kopilo hallard: c++ isn't hard, just the standard libraries are pathetic to work with [10:20]  Cronix Shock: ^^ [10:20]  Andrew Hellershanks: Meadhbh, gObject code looks very messy. For OOP I would prefer to go with Python. [10:20]  Cronix Shock: well i cant figure oop i guess thats my main problem [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: any luck Bluewall? [10:20] Quilzie Xemax: I hope C++ isn't too hard because I've got to deal with such code soon. [10:20] Quilzie Xemax: I'm fine with OOP though. [10:20] kopilo hallard: Java tends to be good for learning OOP imho [10:20] Meadhbh Oh: programming languages are programming languages [10:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh C++ is probably one of the hardest [10:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think C++ even has a printf. It has tha cout << thing which seems to make formatting output a bit more of a mess [10:20] Cronix Shock: kopilo and thats why i fail epically at java [10:20] Cronix Shock: ^^ [10:20] BlueWall Slade: I relogged and it sent me back [10:20] BlueWall Slade: lol [10:21] kopilo hallard: lol [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: how odd [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: maybe network wierdness [10:21] Meadhbh Oh: but for reasons i don't understand, i just barf when i see python [10:21] Richardus Raymaker: you been bad today bluewall ? [10:21] BlueWall Slade: I think someone my be watching a movie online here [10:21] Andrew Hellershanks: C++ seems to have lots of variants. What compiles on one compiler/machine may not work as is elsewhere [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: ahh [10:21] Quilzie Xemax: Aw, what's wrong with Python? I understand it can be a bit slow though... [10:21] kopilo hallard: c++ does have a printf somewhere but it is about as useful as the strtokenizer [10:21] BlueWall Slade: time to break out the repremand dictionary [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: shut off the Pron!! [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:21] Cronix Shock: well, is there an programming language u can compile w/o the need to code in oop? [10:21] Dorothea Lundquist is Offline [10:21] Cronix Shock: like php? [10:22] kopilo hallard: vb [10:22]  Cronix Shock: php "can" be written oop but dont needs to [10:22]  BlueWall Slade: I'm always bad [10:22] BlueWall Slade: lol [10:22] OtakuMegane Desu: :| [10:22] BlueWall Slade: Haaa [10:22] Cronix Shock: hm vb sounds like microshit only [10:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Cronix, C, Perl, one of the *nix shells [10:22] Quilzie Xemax: Wait, PHP supports OOP now? Huh. [10:22] kopilo hallard: vb is event driven [10:22] Cronix Shock: Quilzie yeah since php5 i guess [10:22] kopilo hallard: technically the new adaptions make it semi-oo though [10:22] Richardus Raymaker: vb is a a language to write messy code [10:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Quilzie, it does support OOP but I haven't used it when I've worked with PHP [10:23] Cronix Shock: php6 will be even more oop'able [10:23] kopilo hallard: it is explicit :p [10:23] OtakuMegane Desu: I generally understand the concept of oop but proper impolementation... [10:23]  Quilzie Xemax: Visual Basic is also dead. But it's still taught in schools here. :( [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: cardio time justin? [10:23]  Cronix Shock: lmao [10:23]  kopilo hallard: unfortunately VB is still used [10:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: getting my workout [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: work the legs [10:23]  Andrew Hellershanks: Otaku, that is the problem. Looking at what you need to do from the data first then to the programming to manipulate the data [10:23]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:23]  Timothy Hoxley: yeah, vb6 is still used by many of my friends [10:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: I need a pressup animation [10:24]  Cronix Shock: our school just switched from teaching vb to teaching java wich makes it hard for me [10:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: I remember running across some basic programming thing for Linux. [10:24]  Quilzie Xemax: OOP seems very natural to me. [10:24]  BlueWall Slade: I found the problem, it is bandwidth. I'll log - see you guys later :0 [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: mm [10:24]  Nebadon Izumi: kk** [10:24] BlueWall Slade: take care [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: later Blue [10:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Quilzie, depends on what you are used to. OOP is still "new" to me being a programmer from back in the day of mark sense and punch cards. [10:24] kopilo hallard: the part that broke my interest in c++ was finding out the stack has no iterrator [10:25] Richardus Raymaker: where's the language the you can make a program just with symbols and cubes ? like in SciFi movies sometimes [10:25] Quilzie Xemax: Ah, I understand that feeling. [10:25] Cronix Shock: lol richardus [10:25] OtakuMegane Desu: I make heavy use of subroutines, etc which is sorta the same concept but apparently doesn't count as OOP these days [10:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, APL [10:25] kopilo hallard: Richard: probably small talk [10:25] Cronix Shock: *thinking about the work in password swodfish* ;D [10:25] Meadhbh Oh: mmmm... glorius APL [10:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, there is a free implementation of it for ASCII type terminals that you can download. The language is called J. [10:25] Cronix Shock: brainfuck and whitespace ftw xD [10:25]  Dave Coyle is Offline [10:26] Quilzie Xemax: I'm not a big fan of event-driven programming for instance. So when I took a look at LSL... [10:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_%28programming_language%29 [10:26] Meadhbh Oh: yeah. PHP did oop in PHP4 [10:26] kopilo hallard: lol [10:26] OtakuMegane Desu: The high compressability of whitespace would have made it epic back in the 70s and 80s lol [10:26] Meadhbh Oh: but PHP4's OOP was really messy [10:26] Cronix Shock: any1 here did perl with opensim? [10:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I like event driven programming. [10:26] Penny Lane: http://xkcd.com/224/ [10:26] Cronix Shock: is there a proper howto yet? [10:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I also work with low level hardware so its familiar to me. [10:27] Richardus Raymaker: andrew, i found this one http://www.jsoftware.com/ [10:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Perl and OpenSim? [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: as a script language? [10:27] Cronix Shock: that would be epic [10:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, that is the official site for J IIRC [10:27] Cronix Shock: really needs to be implemented [10:27] Meadhbh Oh: i design and fab CPUs in my back room. my favorite programming language is solder [10:27] kopilo hallard: LOL [10:27] Quilzie Xemax: Not trying to be rude or anything but is that a serious suggestion Cronix? :) [10:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Meadhbh, yeah, I like that language too. :-) [10:28] Cronix Shock: er yes it is [10:28]  kopilo hallard: LOL [10:28] Cronix Shock: why not quilzie? [10:28] Quilzie Xemax: I wasn't disagreeing with it, I was simply curious [10:28] Cronix Shock: python is just ... mhmh how can i explain... meh to me [10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics that people especially want to discuss? [10:28] Cronix Shock: lsl isnt THAT bad [10:28] kopilo hallard: python is a blackbox paradigm :p [10:28] Cronix Shock: but perl would just be frikkin awesome [10:29] Meadhbh Oh: wait... someone else besides sai mentioned smalltalk? [10:29] Richardus Raymaker: python i use it, but i prefefr to replace things with php. [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya we have slid off topic a hair, no biggie as long as no one is waiting to talk about something opensim related [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: if you are just blurt it out [10:29] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh yeah, this is an opensim meeting. [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:29] kopilo hallard: lol [10:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone here work on viewer code that can help with understanding how results from search are handled? [10:29] WhiteStar Magic: hahaha [10:29] Penny Lane: I had this screw that needed to be put in, but screwdrivers are so meh. Nothing beats a good ol' hammer. [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: exactly. just want to see if there's any os specific stuff while some devs are here [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: have you looked at flyman's search code? [10:30] Cronix Shock: as i mentioned, some1 interested in working to implement perl? [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: no Cronix [10:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Penny, On a TV programm called "Canada's worst handyman", one of the people in the show often did try to use a hammer to insert a screw. [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: no ones shown any interest ive seen [10:30] Richardus Raymaker: does plans about some railtrack fit in this meeting to ? [10:30] Penny Lane: Andrew: lol [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: if they are they have not talked much about it [10:30]  Cronix Shock: hm [10:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: rail track as in train? [10:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I'll look. Haven't seen it yet. I'm working with ossearch right now [10:30] OtakuMegane Desu: Think all my questions are mostly on hold till 0.7 is deployed here. [10:30] Cronix Shock: well if it werent to hard i would even try it myself [10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: ah yeah, that's what I mean. Other than that, perhaps there's osmething in libomv [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: its probably not impossible [10:31] Quilzie Xemax: Is there an implementation of Perl in C#? [10:31] Richardus Raymaker: ok, thats says enough for me otaku [10:31] WhiteStar Magic: aside from some current 6.9-PF issues [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm guessing really - I've never looked [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: we do allow JS, VB, C# and something else [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: as scripting language [10:31] Cronix Shock: python [10:31] Cronix Shock: is in the list to [10:31]  Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I have libomv checked out and am looking at it right now. [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: though to be honoest i really dont know if or how well that works [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: It got removed some time ago [10:31] Richardus Raymaker: is there a page how to implement VB code etc ? VB i can write [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: ah really? [10:31] Cronix Shock: anyway even music player ices has perl implemented as script language [10:31] Cronix Shock: so i guess it would be rather easy [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: its still in OpenSim.ini [10:31] Andrew Hellershanks: I was surprised to hear a couple of comments about search not working since it seems to be in the grid where I'm using it. [10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: ironpython doesn't play nicely with libomv unfortunately [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: ooh [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: just python [10:31] Richardus Raymaker: better ;learn C# btw [10:31] Cronix Shock: just need to figure out the basics [10:31] Nebadon Izumi: i thought you meant all of them [10:31] Quilzie Xemax: Aw it doesn't? Oh well. [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: maybe they have a private implementation? [10:32] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, private implementation of which? [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: does Realxtend have python scripting still? [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I don't see any reference to it in OpenSim.ini.example [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: your right [10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: of a search module [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: i thought you meant VB, C# etc.. [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: to much going on [10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:32] Cronix Shock: im pretty sure ive seen it in 6.9-postfixes a few weeks ago [10:33] Cronix Shock: (python) [10:33] Cronix Shock: at least in the config [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe you have an old OpenSim.ini [10:33] Richardus Raymaker: cant remeber i have seen python in the osgrid ini [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya check the examples [10:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, You install the ossearch module and add one extra [] section to OpenSim.ini that works in conjuction with datasnapshot. [10:33] Nebadon Izumi: make sure its 100% updated [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: It got removed ages ago - might even have been me who did it [10:33]  Cronix Shock: well i dont care about python anyway [10:33] Cronix Shock: more interested in the perl thingy [10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: ah yeah, it's probably more or less independent of opensim then [10:33] Richardus Raymaker: im told ossearch is not needed anymore [10:33] OtakuMegane Desu: Quick search through OpenSim.ini comes up with nothing for python [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: sorry, I've never looked very closely at it - just remembering the incidental details I've heard/seen [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: thats not true Richardus [10:34] Quilzie Xemax: I'm more interested in the scripting functions being expanding than the languages anyway. [10:34] Nebadon Izumi: there is no other search [10:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, yeah, other than it needing the datasnapshot output [10:34] Richardus Raymaker: oww. that explains why its failing now. [10:34] Quilzie Xemax: expanded* [10:34] WhiteStar Magic: OpenSim NEEDS a Search System [10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: cronix: I've never seen perl implemented as an embedded scirpting language :) [10:34]  Richardus Raymaker: then i need to drop the dll back in [10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: its just OSgrid is not indexing sims [10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: cuase Datasnapshop and OSSearch index cron has issues [10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: our grid is too big [10:34]  Cronix Shock: justing, look into ices (stream client for icecast) it has perl embedded [10:34]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm finalizing an issue re: land category in ossearch [10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: we have sorta outgrown the code [10:35]  WhiteStar Magic: that parser.php stopped working a while ago [10:35]  OtakuMegane Desu: Yay, we broke something else through sheer size :D [10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: cronix: It would be a heroic effort to embed perl in opensim [10:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm only using 0.6.9 PF [10:35]  Cronix Shock: Justin *totally aggree* [10:35] Richardus Raymaker: so nebadon, i need to drop the dll back in ? [10:35] Quilzie Xemax: So I tried to see if there was an event for detecting when a region is started up and couldn't find any. [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes Rich [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: and add the search URL to OpenSim.ini [10:36] Richardus Raymaker: ok. thanks [10:36] Cronix Shock: any1 knows which sourcecode files are related to some of the implemented script languages? [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: check OSgrid Example [10:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Quilzie, you can set up OpenSim to issue a message on a channel when a region has completed loadin [10:36] WhiteStar Magic: soem of teh issues with datasnapshot too maybe related to SqLite [10:36] Cronix Shock: so i can look at them and "might" figure out a way to implement perl? [10:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Quilzie, the default is channel -800 [10:36] Quilzie Xemax: I can? Ah okay. [10:36] Breaker Zodiakos: It would be handy if there were a per object setting to opt-in to being search indexed - it would make the task of actually indexing objects far easier by allowing human differentiation of 'relavent' objects... would be harder without viewer code ui to back it up though. Just a random thought. [10:36] Penny Lane: I think it was Fred who spent a week trying to embed Lua (a language *designed* for embedding easily everywhere) into Opensim, and finally admitting defeat. Apparently C# doesn't like visitors. [10:36] WhiteStar Magic: just like WebStats stopped working a while ago as well [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: there is a per object setting [10:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Quilzie, it sends out a message after all scripts have finished loading [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: just dont check list in search [10:36] Nebadon Izumi: on the prim [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: sorry "Show in Search" [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: on General Tab [10:37] Andrew Hellershanks: ossearch doesn't currently include objects in search results. [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: correct but it will index them Andrew [10:37] Breaker Zodiakos: Ahhh, that explains it [10:37]  Andrew Hellershanks: It does include them in the database tables [10:37] Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd like to have it include objects in search but I don't know how results are passed to the viewer in a way that would allow extra data to be included [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: woops [10:38] Cronix Shock: nebadon, just curious, u know the traffic of osgrid grid servers? [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: sorry i just started video [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: accident [10:38] Cronix Shock: o.O [10:38]  Cronix Shock: video [10:38] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, wondered what that was [10:38] Cronix Shock: omg [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: i was camming and I clicked the button [10:38] Cronix Shock: it finally [10:38] Cronix Shock: works for me [10:38]  Cronix Shock: wtf [10:38] Rosey Button: Hello [10:38] Breaker Zodiakos: Is there anything new on the front of making opensim useable with the new 2.x viewers? Mesh uploading is going to be coming very soon and it could have a big impact on opensim to have an official viewer that allows for it... [10:39] Richardus Raymaker: does imprudence not lnow it ? [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: hello [10:39] Andrew Hellershanks wonders if he has seen this one [10:39] Cronix Shock: i tryed like a thousand tines before [10:39] Cronix Shock: just getting black screens [10:39] Cronix Shock: and now it magically happens to work [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: heh [10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: wth, kindon stepped down??? [10:39] Warin Cascabel: Yeah. [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: Kindon? [10:39] Breaker Zodiakos: Wow Justing, welcome to a weak ago. :D [10:39] Warin Cascabel: M Linden [10:39] Breaker Zodiakos: hehehe [10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: kingdom [10:39] Penny Lane: K Linden [10:39] Justin Clark-Casey: sweet jesus - I should come out of my cave more often [10:39] Dahlia Trimble: Breaker, nobody knows how meshes in SL will work until LL releases it [10:39]  Penny Lane: M Linden [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: ah [10:39]  Andrew Hellershanks: ooh... mesh objects? I'm so there. [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: oh man [10:40] Rosey Button: at the risk of sounding dumb, what are meshes? [10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: linden blogs are down [10:40] Breaker Zodiakos: Yeah, but before that can even be considered opensim needs to be compatible with the new releases, regard of the new mesh stuff [10:40] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Post_Fixes) 255e05b 2010-06-07 19:52:45 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: you didnt Know M was gone? [10:40] Rosey Button: oops, sorry guys carry on. [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no - wow! [10:41] Dahlia Trimble: there are some people looking at media on a prim [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya, he mysteriously didnt show up at SL7B [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: then next day he stepped down [10:41] Breaker Zodiakos: Meshes are the normal method of storing 3d data in a non-primitive format.... not a great explanation but I don't have a better one, hehe [10:41] Richardus Raymaker: hi rosey [10:41] Andrew Hellershanks: All the objects you see are really mesh based. Hit Ctrl-Shift-R [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: woah, crazy stuff [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:41]  Cronix Shock: holy... o.O [10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll just catch myself up now rather than expostulating further :) [10:41]  Quilzie Xemax: And then wish you didn't press Ctrl-Shift-R if you already have a low framerate [10:41]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe sure [10:41]  Cronix Shock: lmao [10:42]  Nebadon Izumi: thats about all i know anyway [10:42]  OtakuMegane Desu: One of the interesting theories posted on SLH was they raised M to do all the dirty work and let him catch the negative reactions, then take him down and put Phillip back in [10:42]  Breaker Zodiakos: It's not anything exciting from a technology standpoint, just that finally opensim could support meshes without requiring realxtend viewer, since I don't think that's ready for primetime yet [10:42]  Dahlia Trimble: we have some info on the mesh formats but until LL releases it, no sense in trying to duplicate it [10:42]  Andrew Hellershanks: its easier for me to make a 3D object than convert it to a sculpty. [10:42] Richardus Raymaker: meshes, the news millenium to sell more sl land [10:42] Cronix Shock: lul [10:42] Breaker Zodiakos: Dahlia: That isn't the problem, you don't understand - Opensim does not yet currently work with the 2.x viewers, which have been out for awhile [10:42] Warin Cascabel: Sculpties really have to be designed from the ground up, rather than being converted from more free-form 3D models. [10:43] Breaker Zodiakos: Dahlia: They include a bunch of other cool stuff, like shared media [10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: well, you want the exeisting ceo to absorb all the bad news, that 's just good sense [10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: like the current bp ceo [10:43] Timothy Hoxley: everything loaded around me [10:43]  Timothy Hoxley: i was trying to make it work here yesterday [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: heh [10:43] Dahlia Trimble: I'll repeat: there are some people looking at media on a prim [10:43] Timothy Hoxley: just, i didn't load [10:43] OtakuMegane Desu: That's of course assuming it was the plan. With LL it could very easily be something completely different [10:43] Meadhbh Oh: @otaku... i think the conspiracy theory puts a bit too much confidence in the people doing that kind of planning [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: cool Dahlia, it will be nice to see that [10:43] Cronix Shock: nebadon, is that a demo on the screen? [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: yes Cronix [10:44] Cronix Shock: group? [10:44] Cronix Shock: looks nice [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: i use kkapture [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: to convert demos to x264 [10:44] Richardus Raymaker: i still hear that sculpt can be betetr phantom here. i dont think thats correct for rocks. (trees are phantom nicer anyway) [10:44] Cronix Shock: hm never heard [10:44] Cronix Shock: gotta dload it [10:44]  Cronix Shock: ;D [10:44] Breaker Zodiakos: Dahlia: It's not just media on a prim, it doesn't matter... the current version 2.x viewers just show a 'loading' avatar indefinitely, they just aren't useable.... the media on a prim stuff is kinda secondary at the moment for compatibility, lol [10:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Thought we already can do media on a prim [10:44] Meadhbh Oh: plus. i get the sense that philip isn't going to pull a steve jobs... he actually is going to be an intirim CEO [10:44] Philantropie Lorentide appears [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: not Flash Andrew [10:44] Breaker Zodiakos: Dahlia: Unless I'm just misunderstanding. XD [10:44] Cronix Shock: gonna hook up some farbrausch demos to mah screens ;) [10:44]  Dahlia Trimble: Breaker, patches are welcome :) [10:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, oh [10:45]  Nebadon Izumi: the new Shared Media allows for Adobe Flash [10:45] Cronix Shock: o.O [10:45]  Cronix Shock: nice [10:45] Timothy Hoxley: oh? [10:45] Breaker Zodiakos: Dahlia: I was actually thinking about it, but I can't... I've already looked at the viewer code [10:45] Timothy Hoxley: flash! [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: dont get too excited though [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: not everyone sees the same thing [10:45] Nebadon Izumi: its a per user experience [10:45] Timothy Hoxley: finally something this wolf understands [10:45] Cronix Shock: o.O [10:45]  Andrew Hellershanks doesn't get excited about flash [10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: no media on a prim isn't yet implemented. People (inculuding myself) have plans to do it but no ground has been broken yet, afaik [10:45] Quilzie Xemax: I don't want Flash here too. :( [10:45] Cronix Shock: tat sounds like fail [10:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: shared media appeaqrs to be a trademarked term by linden [10:46]  Warin Cascabel: Richardus: If your sculpts don't need to be collided with (hanging lamps, for example), it can make physics in your region more efficient if you turn them phantom, so they're not considered by the physics engine and memory isn't used for their physics meshes... but that really goes for all prims, to a greater or lesser extent. [10:46]  Breaker Zodiakos: It's my understanding that I can't do patches if I've seen the viewer code? [10:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: breaker: that's correct, until 6 months have passed [10:46]  Cronix Shock: flash is fugly slow anyways on not so high end machines [10:46]  Nebadon Izumi: not for 6 months Breaker [10:46]  Nebadon Izumi: since your last patch [10:46]  Dahlia Trimble: there is a 6 month cooling down period [10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Breaker, you can make patches. YOu just can't submit them. [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: or we can labodimize you 1st now [10:46] Meadhbh Oh: ack. gotta run. RL interrupting [10:46] Breaker Zodiakos: Ah, I see... well, that gives me a bit more hope [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: and skip the 6 months [10:46] Meadhbh Oh: cheers [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: lol [10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: bye meadhbh [10:46] Dahlia Trimble: yes you can publish private patches [10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: selective memory rasue [10:47] Dahlia Trimble: we just cant accept them into core [10:47] Cronix Shock: yay farbrausch :) [10:47]  Quilzie Xemax: Well, congrats to you if you're able to understand LL's viewer code enough then. [10:47]  Richardus Raymaker: ok [10:47]  Richardus Raymaker: just check what i know is correct. im close [10:47]  Cronix Shock: <3 that group [10:47]  Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen this movie before [10:47]  Breaker Zodiakos: Hmm, so I could publish a module on the forge, for example, and people would be free to implement that themselves? [10:47]  Philantropie Lorentide: The movie looks awesome