Chat log from the meeting on 2012-09-25

 [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi bri [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: hee tiffany [11:03] logger sewell: Hey Justin [11:03] Bri Hasp: Ciao JCC [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin ?! i see more clouds the last time [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hi logger, bri, folks [11:03] Sarah Kline: hi justin [11:03] Tiffany Magic: Lots of clouds. [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: justin one of them :?O [11:03] Bri Hasp: 3 clouders [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: i count 3 here [11:03] Tiffany Magic: yep [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: 2 [11:03] logger sewell: I can see myself :) [11:04] Bri Hasp: one left..hehe [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: 2 bri :O [11:04] Tiffany Magic: Well... we followed the advice from here on our slow rezzing problems on our grid... but, it didn't improve. [11:04] tx Oh: huhu [11:05] Bri Hasp: You're my ONE Tiffany [11:05] logger sewell: Hi Neb [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:05] Tiffany Magic: It has to be something in 7.4... we didn't have any problems with rezzing in before that. [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb.. hmm neb is this week again cloud to. weird. nothing for neb [11:05] Bri Hasp: have you reset from scratch? [11:06] Bri Hasp: use the OSG account clicker [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i logged in here with cleared cache [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: not generally a good idea [11:06] Tiffany Magic: We have several members who can't get a sim to rezz in at all.... unless they stand there for 30 minutes or longer. [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are you going to change the cache timeout? [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: Tiffany, do you have warp3d enabled ? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya I will do that in next release [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: or do you get slow errors on consoel ? [11:07] tx Oh: i logged in via umts stick from my hotel room :-) [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: ai :) [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: My main computer's video card is sick so i have to use my laptop today. [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure I am going to change the plazas though [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: but the release I will change for sure Justin [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: My viewer keeps crashing so I may not be able to stay for the meeting. [11:08] logger sewell: we get some slow post times but that is normal [11:08] Bri Hasp: I thought my increase in slow errors was with 7.5.. but now I'd guess the asset server [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, Richardus [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: Tiffany, just started to configure a robust server. so cant say much.. [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if the slow rezzing is the region content, then how are your region servers? [11:09] Tiffany Magic: Thanks anyway, Richardus. *smile* [11:09] tx Oh: people ban me because they suspect the teapot client is the reason for slow requests [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: is it the content or the inventory? [11:09] VivK Lowlag: lol tx [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: you have slow rezz problems, i have leaks :O both are terrible tiffany [11:10] logger sewell: Blue we are running at less then 10 gig of memory and only about 15% on the cpu [11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol, Teapot needs to come with tin-foil hats [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: what viewer tiffany. i did something stupid last time and looked at inworldz. with imprudence. well thats for me slow rezzing. opensim is fast [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: tin foil cosy for the teapot [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I did look at the leaks a bit and it seems there is a use of memory over time [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: even on mono which is very surprising - need to investigate further when I have the time [11:11] Tiffany Magic: I've used Imprudence.... Firestorm.... Singularity.... [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how many regions on the server? [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: so is this slow rezzing of textures or entire objects? [11:11] Tiffany Magic: 30 [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 [11:12] tx Oh: i thought unused vars get garbage collected [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: sweet jesus [11:12] Bri Hasp: I have the same leaks.. at least on Suse beta I do... .Net not seen any [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: that's a lot of regions for one sever [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: am testing for a time between ode and bullet i try to keep them running the same time. sofar it seem it start high, then drop and after some hours going up. thats with the test scipt. [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: withmy train its going terrible up [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: they do - so I'm not sure that's where a leak might be happening [11:12] logger sewell: well these are i-7s with 24gig ram [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: from a review of the code there is no obvious leak point [11:12] Tiffany Magic: Justin: Entire objects. [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: doesn't matter about RAM, etc. --- [11:12] Tiffany Magic: People rezz in and stand on water. [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: you will hit I/O bottlenecks [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: -- if you have several users [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: All 30 regions are in use? [11:13] Sarah Kline: 30 regions on one instance? [11:13] tx Oh: justin: normaly when people use to many global vars or such.. vars which don't lose scope, or not? [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany, logger: You may be much better off setting up 8 different opensim instances with about 4 regions each [11:13] Tiffany Magic: But, others rezz in with no problems. I can rezz my main account in with no trouble. I can rezz in a test alt with no inventory and have trouble. [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: yes, but the script ricarhdus provided does not obvious do that [11:13] logger sewell: all on their own instance and thats with only one on the region when they rexx [11:13] Tiffany Magic: Justin... Very light use. [11:14] tx Oh: like the warp3d.. this should just create an image on file and clean up all used mem [11:14] logger sewell: rezz* [11:14] Sarah Kline: how far away is the server from you Tiffany [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: Hmm intressting justin. here i see it go up after lets say 1 day [11:14] Bri Hasp: same 1-2 days [11:14] tx Oh: richardus: what script is it? what do you use? [11:15] logger sewell: well it's not that the servers are in France but some of our euro ppl have the same problem [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6279 [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: if whole objects aren't appearing then that suggests to me dropped packets [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: ODE started at 297 and after 13 hours it where already at 401MB expect the double amount with bullet [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: but running 30 regions on a single server is way higher than most people [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have run around 80 [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hehe [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: in fact, a lot of people only run 1 region per OpenSim instance, though you could have more than one instance per server [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: justin, did you clicked the box first ? so it start moveing ? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes [11:16] Bri Hasp: I am 24gb and icecu bridge and prefer 9 regions [11:16] Tiffany Magic: Justin... every region is on a seperate instance. [11:16] logger sewell: yes they are all on there own instance [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: from what I've seen the memory used does increase slowly over time [11:16] Tiffany Magic: The servers are barely taxed. [11:16] tx Oh: well.. i can't really test something, i'm with my notebook and this has a touchpad. very uncomfortbale with these clients [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: you can have multiples in one instance w/o issues if you watch the loading [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: logger: and you see the same problem on every region? [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: tiffany i run 20 instances on 1 server. that works perfect. just run 1:1 [11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, if you get many users it will get nasty [11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: << 30/box [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: i mean 20 instances of opensim with 1 region [11:17] Sarah Kline: Do you have anything on those 20 regions lol [11:17] logger sewell: no just certain regios Justan [11:17] Bri Hasp: we hold at 9 due to our friday partys [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: to be clear, though, is it the region content that is slow to rez? [11:18] Tiffany Magic: Yes, Blue. [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok [11:18] Bri Hasp: can you try a script to load min regions ...medium and full? [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, then whats different at your pc justin. if i use my train that have more of the same commands its going pretty fast up. with bullet i saw the memory increase double compared with ode. thats why i try to compare both with test script now [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: wel saray. there aroe many regions empot. lag buffers etc. [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: nothing is different - I see what you probablyi see, which is a slow increase in used memory [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the database for the region store is on the same box? [11:19] logger sewell: it's like the db doesn't recognize certan avatars [11:19] logger sewell: no we have a seperate data server [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: that's not something that is possible [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, how far away is it? [11:20] logger sewell: and that runs at less then 2% cpu load [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: there will be no change of behaviour with different avatars - the biggest change would be the networki link [11:20] logger sewell: they are on the same farm [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, you have network I/O to worry about [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: justin, ok. it only go fatser up if you use more of the same command. maby intrestsing for next test here 3 cubes with test script [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: when a viewer enters a scene, thre simulator tells it about all the objects that are in that scene [11:21] logger sewell: If it was all avatars that it happens to i could find it [11:21] Sarah Kline: I find I have had problems using the same avatar name for this grid and my own grid...the client uses same folder for name and it gets confused...nothing rezzes on my avatar [11:21] Bri Hasp: Tif is still a cloud on my viewer [11:21] Tiffany Magic: Justin... I can log myself in... with my main account... with 40K of inventory.... and have no trouble. I can log off and log on an alt, with no inventory, and the objects on a sim take a half hour to rezz. I can log on another one, and there's no problem. Same machine... same connection... same everything. [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: You need to use the 'show queues' command on the simulator console [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: Sarah same avatra is no problem. but make sure its different uuid [11:22] tx Oh: (since i've logged in 42mb received, i wished i would know when i exceed the limit an it switches to 64kbit) [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: that would tell you whether a lot of packets are being dropped on that connection for some reason [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: but one also need to be sure that it's not textures you're talking about rather than objects [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: and as sarah says, viewer can get confused sometime [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: have you tried clearing viewer cache? [11:23] tx Oh: why do you have so much stuff in your inventory? [11:23] logger sewell: I'll try that Justin [11:23] Tiffany Magic: Yes, Justin. Cleared cache repeatedly. And, it is objects, not textures that don't want to rezz in. [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: then have anybody soem idea what then increase the memory if you move oprims with scipt ? [11:23] Sarah Kline: thats not much stuff tx [11:24] Sarah Kline: )) [11:24] Bri Hasp: Hippo cured a few of our guest clouds.. that resisted [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: there is nothing obvious, it needs investigation [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: then i can only test further :) [11:24] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think Hippo used a different strategy to distribute the avatar parts [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: ? [11:25] Bri Hasp: seems so Blue [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: I've never heard of any alternative strategy to uploading baked textures [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: apart from what the lindens are currently working on [11:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: at one point, LL started having the viewer bake the parts to keep texture theft down [11:25] tx Oh: sarah: i have just about 5000 entries in my inventory and have just no probs with it. [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, I'm just not old enough :) [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: so it used to be the server doing the baking? [11:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: people would use client side tools to rip skins and clothes form their cache [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: or.... each viewer did its own baking fo ran avatar? [11:26] Bri Hasp: I stay hushed on my inventory size... blushing [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: justin, is there some other thing i can test ? [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think each viewer baked them [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: or try to test [11:27] Bri Hasp: close to 10,000 [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: can't remember the exact time it changed, but it started in Imprudence [11:27] logger sewell: thats not much :) [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not really. If the problem is seen with llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast and not eithout then one has to start fiddling with the llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(0 implementatio nto figure out waht is going on [11:27] Sarah Kline: nooo Emerald lol [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :) [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:28] Sarah Kline: Hi Dahlia [11:28] tx Oh: huhu [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: JUstin, i have seen it with llsetpos it did go up to, but much much slower. also because the build in delay. and if am understanding the opensim code right. llSetPos is useing the same code as llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast only with 200 delay [11:29] logger sewell: Hi Dahlia [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:30] tx Oh: justin, this flotsam cache thing - it is for sure better then before but under undefined circumstances it will erase dynamic textures like before [11:30] tx Oh: as i wrote [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: I believe that is correct [11:30] Dahlia Trimble: I think my dynamic textures last about 3-4 days [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: I also need to know if these textures rae changing rapdily [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: mine dont chante [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: *change [11:31] tx Oh: dahlia: actually i run with very high expire rates (2 minutes or so) and they didnt get deleted [11:32] Dahlia Trimble: Im not sure what my expire rate is [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: are you normally running very high expire rates? [11:32] tx Oh: justin: as i wrote, they just got loaded once, no update via script [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: maby because that speed the cahce dont get a sign that its not used anymore [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: maby dynamic textures work betetr if you refresh them regulair [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: it's a puzzle as to why they would be removed then, since they should always be detected as still in use by the expiry scan [11:33] tx Oh: richardus, a good hint [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: before expiry, the deep scan records all the texture uuids still in use and updates the times in the cache [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so they should not get expired, in theory [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: unless. there's a bug :O [11:34] tx Oh: i will investigate more when i'm back home (in 3 weeks) [11:35] Ni Lemon: hello everybody [11:35] Ni Lemon: hi stiofain [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: its only shame that i get lost in the opensim code after its at the end of the llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast function :O [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: logger, tiffany: I have to say, I do find it a big puzzle why some avatars would not receive object packets, it's not a problem that I've heard of before except where network connections are extremely poor [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: hi ni [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: hi stiofan [11:35] Ni Lemon: hello justin how are you? [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: hi ni [11:36] stiofain nbmcmedia: hi all [11:36] tx Oh: but another problem seem to be the slow requests (not to me, but to several sims here) [11:36] Tiffany Magic: My network connection is 36 - 7 [11:36] Arielle Popstar: what do you consider extremely poor? [11:36] Ni Lemon: hello rich [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: ni: tired and there are far too many bugs :) [11:36] Tiffany Magic: We are running gigabyte network switches [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: difficult to say, but lots of packet drops [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: well it feels like you have all the work on your desk justin. you alone [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: also, running over a wireless network can cause problems too [11:37] Arielle Popstar: i am seeing 6-15% here [11:37] Arielle Popstar: but not been a prob anywhere else [11:37] Tiffany Magic: Not wireless either. [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: Tiffany, can you enbaled QoS or upload limiting. is there some possibility that you flood the router at soe point so it chokes. if you use a router ? [11:37] Bri Hasp: Gawd Tif you're stronger than most of us [11:38] Tiffany Magic: Yet I can rezz in. lol [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: there is quite a lot of content in this region [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: next door too [11:38] Arielle Popstar: i just came from a large shopping region [11:38] Bri Hasp: huge theses days Neb [11:38] Arielle Popstar: ping was around 200 and no packet loss [11:39] Arielle Popstar: here 3500 ping [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: then your still loading things arielle [11:39] tx Oh: the teapot heats my cpu :-) [11:39] Bri Hasp: Tif as a 45 min cloud appears like she's on a 300 baud Hayes [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: ping 94 for me [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: if upload takes long enough I suspect the viewer gives up entirely [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its either something with your router, or perhaps somewhere between you and this server Arielle [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: ohh Brio, then you need to set graphics back to ascii [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: Bri [11:40] Arielle Popstar: i have no issues with any other plaza Neb [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: 144ms here [11:40] tx Oh: ping what? lets see what my umts stick does [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya Lbsa Plaza is in Virginia [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: different host there [11:41] logger sewell: i'm running 63ms here [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya i am getting like 70ms here [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: hmm Bri i guess around 200-300ms [11:41] Bri Hasp: could be [11:41] tx Oh: ping sim 220ms [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: lol nebadon. you almost sit on the server... [11:41] Sarah Kline: 212 from France [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: from Europe i would expect between 200-300ms [11:41] Bri Hasp: I ping 21 ms to osgrid [11:41] Arielle Popstar: still getting packet loss between 6-25% [11:41] Sarah Kline: no wonder its fine for you Neb lol [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: well osgrid.org server is in california [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: 145ms here neb. from europe [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: low FPS affects ping time too, its not just network [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: its pretty low today. have seen 170ms to [11:42] Tiffany Magic: Our welcome center is one of the one that people have trouble getting to load. We want to change the initial landing for new avatars to a different sim, off the mainland, but nobody has been able to tell us how to do that. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the only real difference between this sim and like 98% of other regions on OSgrid [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: this region has an insane amount of textures [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: that can really clobber your machine [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: heh [11:43] VivK Lowlag: the only way to deal with wright is to lower the draw distance [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: this region has like 4000ish unique textures [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: bad design, neb ;) [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: or upgrade computer VivK [11:43] Bri Hasp: I'm surprised you still do meetings @ Wright [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: and 2000+ scripts [11:43] Sarah Kline: some people have like 1500 prims in their shop and like 7 freebies in the vendor [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: texture console for me reporting 7745 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: actually it was designed to be an extreme test case [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: though some of that is avatars [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: hello ashoka [11:44] Sarah Kline: hehe guessed that ) [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: thats probably total displayed Justin [11:44] Bri Hasp: may as well put Art-City in the sky [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: thats probably not unique [11:44] tx Oh: this is the best performance test you can have [11:44] Ashoka Jones: Heya [11:44] tx Oh: and stability as well [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya Wright Plaza makes Art City look like nothing [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: hi ashoka [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: how much system memory do you have arielle ? [11:45] Ashoka JonesAshoka Jones smiles [11:45] Bri Hasp: how long does Wright take to startup? [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: trouble is all this software is extremely complicated [11:45] Ni Lemon: hello my brother boboa [11:45] Boba Solo: hello folks [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: with a clear cache, it takes about about 20 minutes to start [11:45] Arielle Popstar: 1.5 gb [11:45] Ni Lemon: pleased to see you [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: hello boba [11:45] Boba Solo: hello my friend Ni [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: if the cache is not cleared, it takes about 3 minutes [11:45] Bri Hasp: wow [11:45] Boba Solo: good to see you [11:45] stiofain nbmcmedia: hey boba [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ni Lemon [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: singulairity here use 930MB now [11:45] Ni Lemon: hello Neb [11:45] Arielle Popstar: Hi Bob [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, arielle so your HDD is swapping have to disk .. [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, pulling down assets takes a long time [11:46] tx Oh: justin: are there enough coders for the core? do you need more people? [11:46] tx Oh: (just to know) [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: that's whyu "save iar" can take an awful long time [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: always need more people :), more good patches [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: save iar (its 2GB) takes a few hours here justin. and my inventory is only 6K [11:47] tx Oh: save oar's are sooo daaaamn fast!!!! [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: 2gb is a hell of a lot of data [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I am amazed that 6k items is 2gb [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: you would see much better performance over time if you turned off cache expiry I expect, though then you would have to eventually flush the cache by hand [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: considering i have like 44k items its only about 2gb also [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: then i dont want to know how big nebadons's iar file is at the end [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: lots of big textures? [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i guess i probably have a bunch of dupes [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: mine is about 2gb too [11:47] Arielle Popstar: 12k items for me is about 1.2 GB [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: this is a lot of data - imagine downloading that from a website [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: the # of items is arbitray somewhat [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: mine takes less than an hour to make the iar but I cant load it, something makes it throw an exception and quit [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: correction. my last iar hit almost 3GB [11:48] Flight Band: All Go [11:48] Sarah Kline: max is 4gb size [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: you could have a box in inventory with 500 items inside [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: but i hzave some old stuff thats packed in boxes [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, raw number of items doesn't really tell you all that much [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps there's should be an inventory size limit ;) [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: are you sure sarah. because how can people then make iar files. split it yes.. [11:49] Sarah Kline: when the iar file size grows to above that you start having problems [11:49] Sarah Kline: well this was a couple of years ago ) [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: that might only be a problem in Windows [11:50] Ni Lemon: things in boxes count as if they were not packed, each prim it's count [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: with my train suff its around 1000 items hight. but ned to sort out some thing at some point [11:50] Sarah Kline: I could have sorted my inv better [11:50] tx Oh: i can't imagine so many stuff in my inventory [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya my inventory is a bit nutty [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: 6K only here. my sl one is much bigger [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: boxes of textures? [11:51] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev         81fda6f: 2012-09-11 23:43:37 -0400 (Unix/Mono) [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i probably have like 15,000+ textures [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:51] Ni Lemon: boxes are not just 1 prim [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: half the asset server is nebadon's fault ;) [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:52] Ni Lemon: but the number of the contents [11:52] Boba Solo: hey Thanks for all your hard work Justin,Nebadon an all other dev team its a wonderful result for all of us [11:52] tx Oh: rofl [11:52] VivK Lowlag: just call him Torley [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Need inventory commander. lol like midnight commander. easy to manage [11:52] Arielle Popstar: the real challlenge in wright is loading Neb ;) [11:52] Boba Solo: I cant stay work an all ,..good to be here [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: hi boba [11:52] Boba Solo: hi rich [11:52] Boba Solo: need to return to job [11:52] Boba Solo: ttyl [11:52] Ni Lemon: bye boba have a great day [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I do like your train - saw the youtube video [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: bye boba [11:52] Boba Solo: you too Ni [11:53] Ni Lemon: TY [11:53] Boba Solo: great to see you [11:53] Boba Solo: tc [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: thanks justin.. [11:53] tx Oh: i just tried the recent radegast with the rendering engine.. looks really nice [11:53] Ni Lemon: it's a lovely movie you did Rich I like it too [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: havent seen it. have a link? [11:54] tx Oh: 54mb received since login [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUyhdEpk820 [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: its only a hungry train. around 1G / day [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: well ,something is leaking, but it's not obvious why that is [11:57] tx Oh: there are so many leaks in it. is there something like valgrind for mono? [11:57] Arielle Popstar: more like a hemmorage for me :) [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: omfg [11:58] Tiffany Magic: Now THAT is scary. [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: tx, right now i run it on windows. [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I have a theory what might be leaking [11:59] tx Oh: richardus: windows is no alternative. [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the updates are continually pushing undos to the stack [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: and these grow without bound, leading to a memory leak oveer time [12:00] tx Oh: thats was my thought a hour ago too [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: nice train :) [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: thanks [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: oh this really sucks balls [12:02] tx Oh: i need to go for a cig [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: if 'm correct, then I would anticipate that deleteing the object would free all the memory [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: you may want to try that [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: That i go try after the bullet test, because that one most eat more memory [12:03] tx Oh: teapot cooks my cpu to 71deg C [12:03] Arielle Popstar: teapot or teapot on wright? [12:03] Dahlia TrimbleDahlia Trimble waves bye :) [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: justin. i go try that with train to. how fast after takeing the train in inventory is the memory dropping ? [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: should be very quick [12:04] tx Oh: byd x<hli< [12:04] Arielle Popstar: waves @Dahlia [12:04] tx Oh: ooops bye dahlia [12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we save undo info on scripted moves? [12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Dahlia [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes [12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we need an llUndoIt ? [12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: no [12:05] Richardus Raymaker: justin, ok i kepe eye on that. i have the same idea that something get flooded. that CG not can take back [12:05] tx Oh: bluewall: whould it supprise you? [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: though there is an undo limit it's not actually enforced... (!) [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hence every update creqates a new undo entry and these just grown continuously [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: man [12:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and the more complicated your linkset is, the faseter it grows [12:06] Richardus Raymaker: intressting to see how sims start to work if there's a limit [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: the solution would be quite simply - just pop the earliest undo off the stack if you reach the tlimit [12:07] Richardus Raymaker: easy to say, but easy to maken ? [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle yiou could also tell the object not to store an undo state but that's going to get more intricate [12:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: re: large inventories - I think it would be cool to have an "attic" folder that you could stuff things into [12:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and that would not follow you around - just be available on your home region [12:07] Richardus Raymaker: well justin, why are scripted moveing objects need undo ? [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: they don't, but the undo is buried within the object code [12:08] Richardus Raymaker: aha, the easy approch that worked fine in the begin. [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: the much easier short term fix is to actually enforce the uno limit, which is 5 actions by default [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: but ultimately it would be better not to have undo buried deep in the sog/sop [12:09] Richardus Raymaker: justin, i think thats good first step to see if things start to get stable [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I probably won't be able to look at this immediately but I hope to have a change this week that you can test [12:09] Richardus Raymaker: i think its good for opensim if the memory usage is limited. and then later it can be improved with no undo [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: but I would be reasonably sure this is the problem [12:10] Richardus Raymaker: Hope i get opensim compiled this time right with VS. [12:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe we can check to see if the movement is by a clinet/editor and only save it then? [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes, but that requires a lot of parameterizatio - every update needs an extra bool to say update or no update [12:10] Richardus Raymaker: well, then let me know when its done. 1 week or longer without it not disater justin. but this sounds the best test. [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it would be much clearner to separate the undo functionality and only call it if a client is updaing, but that's a more complicated thing to do [12:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: also - physical movement wouldn't pose that problem [12:12] Richardus Raymaker: drop that at line 100.001 of the todo list justin.. try the simple one first [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yes, that's much lower priority for me [12:12] Richardus Raymaker: lol blue, phyical movement hav eso its own bigger problems. like sensors that seems to fight with phyics. [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and so some other work [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks for the conversation, folks [12:12] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin. thanks [12:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Justin [12:12] logger sewell: bye Justin [12:13] VivK Lowlag: thank's Justin [12:13] Tiffany Magic: Bye Justin [12:13] UUID Speaker: Celina Siemens: 99a635e1-38b2-e4ae-a0a4-c19dac512b4b [12:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: RiRa - I think our issues are in the way we handle events [12:13] Sarah Kline: bye Justin [12:13] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves