Chat log from the meeting on 2018-02-20

[11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hello, everyone [11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Anyone working on Open Sim things this past week or have you all been watching the Olympics? :) [11:10] LaNani Sundara: i was showing Bill and Ubit a texture issue [11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: LaNani, what texture issue? [11:11] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: btw - this laptop has been blue-screening lately so I may just disappear. [11:11] LaNani Sundara: in some cases not all faces will be retextured, like on this torus [11:11] LaNani Sundara: in front of me [11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: LaNani, Yes, I see that some faces aren't textured. [11:13] LaNani Sundara: they just were for 5 seconds when i put this new texture on [11:13] Ubit Umarov: odd [11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... those are faces 3 and 4 that aren't getting tetxured. [11:13] LaNani Sundara: and then went back [11:13] Ubit Umarov: i would expect issues on meshes not torus [11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I was wondering for a moment if there was an off by one error in the texturing for a torus. [11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Nice textures, btw [11:14] LaNani Sundara: it takes some cutting and twisting to get it to misbehave this way [11:14] Ubit Umarov: well it has one now :p [11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: LaNani, what viewer are you using? [11:14] Ubit Umarov: err not anymore lol [11:14] LaNani Sundara: FS 5.07 [11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ok. I was about to say I didn't know of a viewer with the initials FD. I'm on FS 5.0.11 [11:15] LaNani Sundara: typing is not one of my skills [11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Do you have the same problem when using other viewers? [11:16] LaNani Sundara: i will try Sing as well and let Ubit know [11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It is not that likely that the issue is viewer specific considering that most viewers are based on a common code base. [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: nods [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: persistence issue [11:16] Ubit Umarov: damm i was making a copy of it on my test region [11:16] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:17] LaNani Sundara: i gave you a copy right Ubit? [11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I clicked the link in the dialog box that appeared after you passed me the item and it crashed my Firestorm. [11:18] Ubit Umarov: you did ? [11:18] LaNani Sundara: o? [11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've switched to Sing if you want to rez that item again. [11:18] LaNani Sundara: ok [11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I see it. Change the texture. [11:19] LaNani Sundara: ok [11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I see the change but those two faces still aren't textured. [11:19] LaNani Sundara: and hop gone [11:19] LaNani Sundara: i saw them textured for 5 sec [11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I see the texture change but those two faces never change for me. Not even briefly. [11:20] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Yeah it's not getting persisted. You are seeing it in the viewer on your end. [11:20] LaNani Sundara: let me give it to you again.... [11:21] LaNani Sundara: if you havent crashed... [11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I still have it in my inventory from the first time you sent it. [11:21] LaNani Sundara: try wearing it, its attached to avi center [11:21] LaNani Sundara: you can try texturing it yourself [11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It wasn't the giving that crashed the viewer. It was clicking a link in the dialog box that showed up in the viewer when the item was received. [11:21] Ubit Umarov: odd tex don't stick really [11:22] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: As far as I know, that was working a year ago when I was using it. I had it textured. [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It never textures faces 3 and 4. [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: other stuff  been  having  texture  persistence  problems [11:23] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: recently [11:23] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I also noticed when playing with it recently.. The new FS will mark it as a bad object / material and derender it. Not consistently though [11:23] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: But it will throw the same error the bad mesh were [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: on both  physics  engines? [11:24] Ubit Umarov: singu also fails to apply to all [11:24] Ubit Umarov: damm [11:24] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: And while I am here.. whoever fixed the mesh issue with FS in the new physics engines.. thank you thank you thank you! Well done! [11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Ok in my sigularity I see the thing all textured but when I look at it from this view I don't see it all textured [11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the OSG bill is on singu [11:24] LaNani Sundara: we tested on OSgrid's sandboxes, ubODE and BulletSim [11:25] Ubit Umarov: textures have nothing to do with physics.. [11:25] LaNani Sundara: i know but .. just to make sure [11:25] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I know, it is seprate. But I wanted to express my gratitude. [11:25] Ubit Umarov: hmm singu does not apply to all, but setting the face does work [11:26] Ubit Umarov: well i'll try to debug this later [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but may  fail  on a  viewer  restart [11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, any chance it could be as simple as a loop not going over all the faces for the object? [11:26] LaNani Sundara: ty Bill :) it does look ok on that screenshot [11:26] Ubit Umarov: sounds like a number of faces counting issue [11:26] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I am think perhaps, that the weird prims, like the torus or whatever just do not have the strange, inside faces defined.. so it is not persisting them? [11:27] LaNani Sundara: *nods i was thinking the same Andrew [11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If it is as simple as it not dealing with the correct number of faces it might be a simple thing to get fixed. [11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, what viewer are you using? [11:28] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Arielle.  Which faces were you seeing the textures not persisting? [11:28] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: well remember last week, the thing we discovered that FS actually let you try to apply invalid prim params to prims, like when Tampa was trying to apply revolutions to a square prim, FS let's you attempt it, other viewers disable the option on prims it should not be on .. maybe this is along the same lines [11:28] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i forget atm  Hy [11:28] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I have been seeing it at odd times, even on things as simple as a cube. [11:29] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I remember it happening ocassionally in the past, but it seems more frequent now. It happened when Lanani and I were testing in the OSG sandbox. [11:30] Ubit Umarov: but singu did seem to work dif from fs [11:30] Ubit Umarov: as i said i could change the individual faces with it.. not fs [11:31] LaNani Sundara: i can texture individual faces with FS [11:31] Ubit Umarov: i did but reverts [11:32] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I do too, all the time. The issues I have seen have just been flaky and not reproducable. Except on that simulator version prim we just saw. [11:32] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: when I tested it with Singu, I saw the change in sigu, but in the FS window it reverted from that point of view [11:32] LaNani Sundara: the faces that fail here will revert yes [11:32] Ubit Umarov: they do stay on singu [11:32] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: aha! [11:32] Ubit Umarov: did relog with clean cache and they where set [11:32] Ubit Umarov: well and now are set for FS also lol [11:33] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I see all the faces set as well. Latest FS here. [11:33] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Just what I thought, it is the same bug in FS as the last Texture change that everyone was freaking about, FS just bounces back in the viewport but the server actually saves the texture change [11:33] Ubit Umarov: but this does sound like a number of faces issue [11:33] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Before you brought it back, the faces in question were gray [11:33] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh wait [11:33] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: now one is gray. [11:34] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: it changed just now [11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I am able to texture faces 3 and 4 one at a time. That indicates it isn't a viewer specific issue. [11:34] Ubit Umarov: 4 faces ? [11:34] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: How so Andrew? [11:35] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I was able to texture the whole thing and it stick in Singu but not in FS [11:35] Ubit Umarov: set all does not set 3 and 4 [11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, if it was a viewer issue I would expect that I wouldn't be able to see the other faces textured at all. [11:35] LaNani Sundara: it sound like a loop or counting issue.. doesn't it? [11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It does. [11:36] LaNani Sundara: maybe FS sends 1 request for all.. and Sing sends a request per face? [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I would have a quick look now but I'd probably get lost in the code trying to find where the texture information is being readied for sending to the viewer. [11:36] LaNani Sundara: anyway :) that was the issue i wanted to bring to the meeting [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Thank you for that, LaNani. [11:37] LaNani Sundara: thanks guys for listening [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: One more item for Ubits to do list. :) [11:37] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'd test with several different viewers before pronouncing a server issue, although it may be able to be mitigated server side .. [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, I have 6 viewers installed so I can test it with them. [11:37] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: maybe its  a flaky permission issue [11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ohhh one less than me Andrew, catch up man [11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: :P [11:38] LaNani Sundara: is it possible FS does a different kind of request than Sing? [11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, I wasn't counting the SL specific viewer. [11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Neither was I [11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, oh. :P [11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, some of the viewers aren't available for Linux. [11:39] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: lol such competition :) [11:39] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'm a test monkey, I like to have my ducks in a row before I scream at the sky ... HAHAHA [11:39] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: May I ask. What did you guys do in master that fixed the FS mesh issue?   The most recent version I picked up seems to fix the materials error that was casing mesh to disappear.   Perhaps it is related? [11:40] Ubit Umarov: well seems some part of code thinks this torus only has 2 faces [11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, sounds like you are on to something there. [11:40] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Because that twisted prim we just had out..  It was causing the same issue, and de-rendering when I played with it. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: later will try to see if it is our issue or viewer issue [11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sounds good, Ubit. [11:41] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: When you test Singu, you will see that some prims it does not allow you to set certain parameters on it, that FS does, because you are not supposed to be able to [11:41] Ubit Umarov: well assuming my brain decides do work :p [11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, did you notice Hyacinths question about a fix in master re: mesh? [11:41] Ubit Umarov: been a bit ill since sunday [11:41] LaNani Sundara: thank you guys [11:41] LaNani Sundara: get well Ubit [11:41] Gary Monsterous: yes, get well please Ubit [11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sorry to hear that Ubit. Hope you feel more like your old self soon. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: i don't think we did any thing recently to meshes [11:42] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: hope you feel better Ubit [11:42] Ubit Umarov: possible you did changed that FS debug option? [11:42] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I was just looking back through the commits, I see nothing that is mesh specific [11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Probably not. Most of your changes have been done in httptests and not master. [11:42] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: oh.. so maybe that came in with the linden code? I was wondering [11:42] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: recently anyway [11:42] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: But whatever it was, all my trees and buildings came back the second I updated to newer code. [11:42] Ubit Umarov: FS ( from ll) does have a option to turn off the new mesh checks [11:43] LaNani Sundara: woot [11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hyacinth, Have you updated your viewer recently? [11:43] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: well, you got a newer physics engine, so newer mesh physics, this could be it [11:43] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Yes I know, but this fixes it without a need for the workaround. It is awesome. [11:43] Ubit Umarov: what new physics engine? [11:43] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Both ubODE and Bullet [11:43] LaNani Sundara: (*coughs* you sure it wasnt my code that fixed it ;p :D [11:44] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: If updated from release to dev, didn't bullet get some updates since then [11:44] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I merged in the physics code with my stuff and it fixed it instantly [11:44] LaNani Sundara: yes BulletSim did get some updates i saw [11:44] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so maybe it's in the openmetaverse stuff. [11:44] Ubit Umarov: you are messing things .. physics have no relation to visible meshing [11:44] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: if you're not aware of doing anything deliberately.. anyway..  it's fixed.  happy happy :) [11:45] Ubit Umarov: and they do not change the mesh asset viewers see [11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:45] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I've been using ubODE since it has been out, I have not had this mesh issue with FS [11:45] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Whatever it is, it fixes the material problem that FS was complaining about and de-rendering [11:45] LaNani Sundara: great that its fixed for you :) [11:46] Ubit Umarov: there where some changes on number of meshes faces some time ago ( not torus that is older code ) [11:46] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Well all the 0.9.0 grids still seem screwed. Like with the Ruth avatar.. the hands and feet disappear as soon as you TP in, because of that issue. [11:46] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Even with my blown up asset server when I managed to restore, the only mesh I had any issues with was the really freaking old stuff [11:46] LaNani Sundara: Hyacinth managed to reproduce the texture issue on a prim cube as well [11:47] Ubit Umarov: viewers do need some encoding about meshes number of faces before actually loading them [11:47] Ubit Umarov: and we did not had that [11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( and i made a few mistakes along the way :p ) [11:47] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: NOOOO UBIT!! Say it isn't so ... HAHAHA [11:47] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Well if it helps anyone. A lot of people are mad about it, and it seems to be resolved on OSG, and on my grid. [11:48] LaNani Sundara: if you would be so kind and revisit that old code Ubit and look for possible issues :) thank you [11:48] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: so it might point people in the right direction anyway, in resolving it. [11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Well flakey mesh has been talked about for almost 2 years now [11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: was plenty of time to fix it [11:48] Ubit Umarov: but don't mix issues [11:48] Ubit Umarov: one class of issues are physics part only [11:48] Ubit Umarov: others are visible part.. not the same thing [11:49] LaNani Sundara: well there is only one Ubit ;) seems he has to do most of the work :) [11:49] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: yup.  With the Ruth stuff, I was able to clean it up in Blender and get it to work..  But half of my trees and such had disappeaerd, and it looked like I'd have to write those off as gone. [11:49] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: When I updated and recompiled.. all that stuff came back. [11:49] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: So very very happy. [11:49] Ubit Umarov: guess missing meshs is the new FS error detection code [11:50] Arielle Popstar: has ruth  been tested   with a  full  LOD  upload  instead  of  the  normal  0 setting  on  low  and  lower ? [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Some of the mesh issues were code but others were based on how the mesh had been uploaded. [11:50] Ubit Umarov: we have no word on that [11:50] Ubit Umarov: the meshs are as viewers did upload them [11:50] Ubit Umarov: 0.9 will try to refuse upload of some trivial broken assets viewers don't detect [11:51] LaNani Sundara: i had to learn about LOD to be able to upload mesh that didnt just fall apart at a distance [11:51] Ubit Umarov: ( code that some 'clever' ppl said on g++ to remove.. bahh ) [11:51] Arielle Popstar: moi? [11:51] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: If I upload the same mesh, with no modifications with blender.. on a sim running the latest Bullet or ubODE. It works fine, and the issue is corrected, even if I rez it on a region using older code. So that is really nice. [11:52] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: SO something is fixing it on the fly. [11:52] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Exactly that is what I meant by this issue has been around for a while, the reasons are different, but fixing it for one, seems to fix it for both .. [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: One thing that took a while to get documented was the proper way to upload mesh so you didn't mess up objects from the get go. [11:52] Arielle Popstar: any changes to the meshmerizer? [11:52] LaNani Sundara: like the chair Andrew is sitting on... LOD issue at a distance [11:53] Ubit Umarov: meshmerizers are PHYSICS [11:53] Arielle Popstar: looks ok  to me [11:53] Gary Monsterous: it is not for me at a distance [11:53] LaNani Sundara: so me they turn into boxes at a distance [11:53] Arielle Popstar: oh ok  now  i see [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: LaNani, Yes, these chairs degrade very quickly. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: FS now makes builders life easier [11:54] Ubit Umarov: allowing the display of LODs [11:54] Ubit Umarov: without having to fly around [11:54] Ubit Umarov: and also physics shapes [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to the top of the hour. I have one question for everyone. Has any of you done any testing on the new scripting engine? [11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Regardless of the underlying reasons, which don't matter to the end user anyway, had people started fixing their mesh for .9x a year ago, this would not be an issue now, because it seems to inherently fix this issue .. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: bf we had to see the all region physics shapes [11:54] Ubit Umarov: now can be per prim.. a lot lighter [11:54] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I agree. [11:55] LaNani Sundara: there is a lot of old content i bet that will simply never get "fixed" [11:55] Arielle Popstar: the ruth   avatar  shouldnt  be  affected  by the  physics\ [11:55] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: That's just kind of cold comfort though when people's whole region disappears, and they don't really have the skills or means to fix it. [11:55] Ubit Umarov: yeap a bit more care on meshes uploads fixes a lot of issues [11:55] Arielle Popstar: so no specific 'fixes' [11:55] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: People spent too much time screaming at the sky that .9x broke their mesh, instead of actually doing something about it .. [11:55] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Oh yes, Ruth is definitely affected [11:56] Arielle Popstar: well it  is  why  more then half of  opensim  is  still on .8.2  Bill [11:56] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: lazyness [11:56] Arielle Popstar: not always. Just not  always  able  to fix [11:56] Arielle Popstar: because of  perms  etc [11:56] Arielle Popstar: or knowledge [11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: then replace it with something new, why are you so attached to pixels that are 4 years old [11:57] Ubit Umarov: and ppl forgot to tell that the issues where only relevant if using ubOde, not bullet [11:57] Arielle Popstar: build me  something  then [11:57] LaNani Sundara: i think content creators and owners of mesh can not be expected to replace all they have, i can understand a certain resistance to having to redo or rebuy all your stuff [11:58] Ubit Umarov: but well ppl said things just because they did not want any upgrades. from core [11:58] Arielle Popstar: its not  a  problem really. There is  a  workaround  to make  Ubode  accept  it [11:58] Ubit Umarov: a totally diferent issue... [11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Does your 1999 cell phone still work? Nope, had to upgrade it [11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: same principle [11:58] Ubit Umarov: see.. many do not want a working core version... [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: mesh. The feature that keeps on giving (problems) ;) [11:58] Ubit Umarov: but well details from the darker side of life :p [11:58] Arielle Popstar: my 4  year old  cell  still  is  compatible [11:58] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I think it is fair to say that is not diplomatic. ;) [11:58] LaNani Sundara: hey :) i know just am empathetic :) [11:59] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I really loved my StarTac flip phone, but had to update [12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Not a good analogy because I hate them, but a good example is Apple, Usb to Lightning connector [12:00] James atLLOUD: Had a palm OS flip phone - made the Star Trek communicator noise when opened. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: and music changed to "dark Matters" lol [12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I had a StarTac, Loved that phone [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: James, I had a friend of mine who had a ST tricorder simulation program on their (almost) original Palm based PDA. It made all the standard sounds one would expect of a tricorder. [12:01] James atLLOUD: (^_^) nirvana [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes progress isn't. [12:02] LaNani Sundara: the average user will not care if they are on .8 or .9 or even understand the difference, right? of course its not possible to stay backwards compatible for ever and you can not make any progress that way :) but people are, if not lazy then maybe not seeing the need, yet [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at the top of the hour. Any last thoughts or issues before we start losing people? [12:03] Arielle Popstar: its the  grid  owners  admins  who  are refusing to upgrade though   Nani [12:03] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Just sincere thanks, on the mesh issue. Even if you didn't do it.  it works now.   Very happy. :) [12:03] Ubit Umarov: you may had just changed the FS option Hyacinth.Jewell [12:03] LaNani Sundara: and thank you guys for taking the texture issue seriously :) [12:04] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: No. It is def open sim [12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: And that is the problem Arielle .. the Grid Owners who refuse to update, yet everyone screams at the devs for moving forward when others will not .. [12:04] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: I change the FS option back and forth and can see  the results [12:04] Arielle Popstar: well  maybe  core  could  try working  with the  admins  to  fix  up   other   issues [12:04] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: before everything would wink in and out.  With the newer opensim code, everything stays put. [12:05] Ubit Umarov: well as i said related to that i just did improve the mesh number of faces viewers did want bf actually getting the mesh [12:05] Arielle Popstar: when  all of  opensim  is  back on the  same  page,  things  should  move  along  faster [12:05] Ubit Umarov: basicly they wnat the prim that contains the mesh to have the same number of faces [12:05] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Maybe the admins should try not being stuck in the past [12:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Opensim will never be on the cutting edge, unless people actually want to be there, rather than just complaining that it isn't [12:06] LaNani Sundara: ... could that be similar to the prim faces issue Ubit? [12:06] Ubit Umarov: so they can compute LOD before even trying to fetch it [12:06] Arielle Popstar: maybe core   needs  to  be  more  sensitive  to   the lack of  backward   compatibility [12:06] Ubit Umarov: can be a prob with this torus [12:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: no they don't, IMHO [12:06] LaNani Sundara: Hyacinth had it on a cube as well [12:06] Ubit Umarov: but torus code is older. i did not changed it [12:06] Hyacinth.Jewell @grid.hgluv.com:8302: Not consistently. [12:07] LaNani Sundara: *nods [12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Sometimes you have to burn bridges to keep the enemy from following you, and in this case the enemy is flaws in the code [12:07] Ubit Umarov: but need to put debugger on top of it and see what is going on [12:07] Arielle Popstar: there were others  ways  of  doing  it [12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Then write your own? Everyone seems to KNOW HOW CORE SHOULD DO IT ... [12:08] Arielle Popstar: are you  core? [12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Nope [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Developers can never please everyone. [12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but I write my own [12:08] Arielle Popstar: ok then  why  dont  you forge  ahead  and  leave  the rest  of  us  behind [12:08] Ubit Umarov: you mean you crash yr regions your own way :p [12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: already did [12:08] Arielle Popstar: then why  worry  about   the   compatibilities  between  Master  and  .8.2? [12:08] James atLLOUD: hmm - classic conversation [12:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Because unlike some I want to see opensim move forward not stay stuck in the past because of people who refuse to move [12:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: doesn't matter, those that insist on being stuck in the past always will be .. [12:10] James atLLOUD: If Firestorm becomes SL only, I'll be stuck in the past too. [12:11] Arielle Popstar: opensim isnt  up  to using  all  of the  features  we  already  have  in FS  so no  need  to worry\ [12:11] Ubit Umarov: so far it is being working.. several issues, but same are also issues at SL [12:12] Ubit Umarov: that fs devs don't even notice