Chat log from the meeting on 2020-12-08

This meeting was held in Hurliman Plaza as we could not get to the Dev Outreach region.

[11:01] Jo.ooo @os-quebec.mooo.com:8002: Hi Jasmine :)

[11:01] Jasmine Fairytale: hey

[11:02] Luis Berrocal: hey

[11:03] Jasmine Fairytale: hi luis u need rebake u are a cloud

[11:03] Luis Berrocal: ok

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: maybe the automatic build on it failed to add those

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: hope all is well with bill

[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:06] dj phil: Hi all

[11:06] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: Hi Andrew and dj

[11:06] Kayaker Magic: To defend myself from those INI changes, I moved all my settings into a Local.ini loaded at the end, so I can use your OpenSim.ini almost unchanged and grab a new one every time.

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I do the same. Got tired of going through ini files when they change between one version and the next.

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Darri.

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: those changes where on files only we should change

[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome to all the new people I see today.

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: but some may require some edit on other files

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: those changes should be on the *example files

[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: grr... my cat has decided that it is play time.

[11:08] dj phil: hello steev

[11:08] steevithak x: howdy

[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, did you see the messages I left for you near the end of your talk at the OSCC?

[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, but my memory is fading, and I only log into that avatar for a week every year. Send it again?

[11:11] dj phil: hehe Kay ^^

[11:11] Kayaker Magic: People friend me there, and I warn them they should find this copy of me, or the Kitely one for that.

[11:12] dj phil: As promised, I came to the meeting and remind you of osSlerp :p

[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, you were talking about how reminding devs about a bug can help prod them in to fixing the issue. Your talk reminded me about the confusion on the bug reporting form where it says "OS". I changed that text during your panel.

[11:12] Kayaker Magic: LOL, yes, I should update the sample script for that on the Wiki.

[11:12] Kayaker Magic: YES! I love that! thank you!

[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I was hoping you would have seen the IM during the talk as it would have helped bring that point home.

[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: yw. It was a trivial change.

[11:13] dj phil: @Kay : Be cool, there is no fire. I can also come back next Tuesday to refresh your neurons :)

[11:14] Kayaker Magic: Uh oh, I'll get a reputation for having a memory like a sieve...

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: go ahead and give your reminder about osSlerp.

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: That almost looks like a typo.

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Perms are required to get the grid name? That seems odd as one should know the name of the grid one is in,.

[11:14] dj phil: Houch debug channel say error perm's with osGetGridName ... Ubit what yyou do again ???

[11:15] Ubit Umarov: :p

[11:15] Kayaker Magic: DJ pointed out that my example osSlerp code had some efficiency issues. I knew about one of them, but didn't think it was important 'cause it was only a demo showing how to call osSlerp. I will update it.

[11:16] dj phil: osGetGridName > TL Moderate

[11:17] Ubit Umarov: so what news do you bring us andrew?

[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Threat levels are almost obsolete, they are better addressed in the [OSSL] section, but not everyone has switched over to that.

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: no idea why gridname is consider a threat..

[11:19] Ubit Umarov: guess like physices engine name was etc

[11:19] dj phil: I use this Kay section, I have allowed all avatars except Ubit ^^

[11:20] Ubit Umarov: :p

[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I see that seeing as true in my osslEnable file.

[11:21] Kayaker Magic: I have a question for the group: Has anyone built the DTL money module recently with Yeti? Seems the last time I did was with xbuild and it doesn't built with msbuild.

[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Not many code changes this past week. Most were either xml related changes and a few related to service connectors.

[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been updating some helper PHP scripts the past couple of days to use PDO calls. My machine has PHP 7 and some of the hold helper scripts still used mysql_* calls which no longer exist.

[11:24] Kayaker Magic: Yes, PHP 7 and mysqli_* is a hassle for many WEB pages.

[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I will be starting a new github repo where I can publish the updated helper files as a collection. I'm doing final tweaks to the offline.php file. Next I expect to work on the landtool.php file.

[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: mysqli_* still works in 7 but not mysql_*.

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: i have some half done/half broken code on same things

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: need to focus to finish one issue at a time :)

[11:25] Kayaker Magic: For a long time mysql_* worked but logged a warning in an error log file. I found gigabytes of warnings in that file! :)

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: or they will endup as the KFM changes waiting for ages now :)

[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: One issue I found in the offline.php file is that it did some rather crude string manipulation to extract data from an XML string. I now use the functions within PHP to parse and extract the data properly.

[11:26] dj phil: and php 8 is there too :)

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: xml is all about crude heavy string manipulation :p

[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, but splitting a string on <> characters is not really a good way of doing things.

[11:27] dj phil: ha yes ?

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: no prob andrew that code will run fine on cpus of 20 years from now

[11:27] dj phil: irm using <> to compare ... like !=

[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: For the people I'm seeing here for the first time, are you here after hearing about these meetings during the OSCC event this past weekend?

[11:28] Ubit Umarov: ( not same <> dj lol )

[11:28] Kayaker Magic: New guys: I hope this isn't too technical for you. Hang in there for the gems of information.

[11:28] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: I have been to the meetings on and on for a long time. Dates back the 2010.. Andrew.

[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: dj, I ran across a case or two where I needed to use ===.

[11:28] dj phil: I still misunderstood then :s

[11:29] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: *meetings off and on

[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Darri, ok. Welcome back. I remember some of the names of the people that attend the meeting. I didn't remember your name.

[11:29] dj phil: YEs Andrew with !==

[11:29] Ubit Umarov: dj are things separators on xml

[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: dj, yes

[11:30] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: i have only been here with Darri once or twice. Todd Davis back ni the day..

[11:30] dj phil: Ha okay Ubit, I had to stop php and start english

[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: FYI, the parsing of XML was simple enough. Used xml_parser_create, parameters = xml_parse_into_struct, xml_parser_free. At that point you have a nice pair of arrays that you can use to fetch the values that were in the original xml string.

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: about mantis 8823 i may get that formation back on the internal browser

[11:32] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: brb

[11:32] dj phil: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8823

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: but fun the internal brower does not work with https

[11:33] dj phil: Don't touch grrrrrrr

[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: s/parameters/ret/ where ret is 0 if parsing failed and 1 if it succeeded.

[11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, is that one more thing for your ToDo list? :)

[11:33] Ubit Umarov: at sl the servers even give a bad request error to it

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: on opensim the browser just stays there.. odd

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: and on fs and older singu

[11:34] Ubit Umarov: is part of the code i have half done andrew

[11:35] Ubit Umarov: i also have changes to the map search parsing

[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Great. Ubit is on top of things as usual. :)

[11:36] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: back

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: also need to find why take copy done by hg users seems to not od its magic for some grids

[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Does anyone have some questions or comments for todays gathering?

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: seems due to recent code changes.. duhhh

[11:37] Ubit Umarov: hg .. always fun ;)

[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, reminds me. I have a minor patch that I'm testing which warns people loading an OAR if the user tries to load the oar in to too small a region.

[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: OAR files didn't include the original region size so the change I'm doing will only be useful with newly created files.

[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Old OAR files didn't include the region size I meant to type.

[11:40] Ubit Umarov: pre var regions, ofc dont include region size.. it was not a thing..

[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: I have an OAR file that was created back in the days of mega regions.

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: post var regions could only include it if not 256m, not sure

[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: It expects to be loaded in to the equivalent of a 5x5.

[11:41] Ubit Umarov: but it is there now

[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes. It is in OAR files as of minor version 0.8 and will be useful down the road for users. I only generate a warning. If the region isn't big enough the load process skips objects that are outside the region dimensions.

[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: What I've also noticed is that it seems as if some objects that are within the region boundaries don't get loaded when other objects are outside.

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't had time to look in to that situation to see why that happens.

[11:45] Ubit Umarov: oh gavin also missing today

[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Selby is also missing.

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: look better

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: :)

[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I thought I saw Selby here earlier....

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: to yr left...

[11:46] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: I was wondering about.. Odd issue about failed tpies but inconsistent and no errors.. I saw an commit changing presence timeout.. I wondering if it is related? The only error I get is a veiwer error.. Connection between viewer and region lost. and it happens on both FS and Singularity..

[11:46] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I an not missing

[11:46] Ubit Umarov: :)

[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. he is in the corner of the couch underneath my chant window. :)

[11:46] Ada Radius: Selby is here

[11:47] Ubit Umarov: oops the other left

[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: We are getting close to the top of the hour. I have one question to ask for which you don't need to answer today. We can talk about it more next week.

[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: In two weeks time this meeting would be on the 22nd. Only three days before Christmas. I'm wondering whether we should skip having a meeting that day as some people may be involved in last minute activies getting ready for the 25th.

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: what is the 25th?

[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank about that and let me know next week. If you won't be here next week you can IM me or give your thoughts now.

[11:49] Ubit Umarov: errr nm that 25th

[11:49] Ada Radius: During lockdown, not so much prep for the holidays

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: yeah

[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, That 25th. It is December already. Hard to tell when one day is much like another with the ongoing pandemic.

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: this will be a dif 25th

[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Ada, yes. I was thinking that too.

[11:50] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: 25th isthat Friday

[11:50] Ubit Umarov: and also 31

[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Selby, yes it is Friday.

[11:50] Ada Radius: 25th is on a Friday yes

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: all pulbic celebrations of new year forbidden

[11:51] Ubit Umarov: public

[11:51] Ada Radius: Until more ICU beds become available in my county, no gatherings of any kind

[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: The meeting after the 22nd would be the 29th which would be a few days before new years. In the past that meeting has been skipped but there is probably even less going on for new years this year than Christmas.

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: oh ul started vaccination

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: uk

[11:52] Ada Radius: ya. Here we'll be waiting longer

[11:52] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: So did Germany today.

[11:52] Ada Radius: (California)

[11:52] Ubit Umarov: germany did if before EU central approval?

[11:52] dj phil: Belgium is reday for vacinatin too ;)

[11:53] dj phil: ready*

[11:53] Ada Radius: the lockdown here goes through Jan 4 I think

[11:53] Ubit Umarov: vaccination will take ages

[11:53] Ada Radius: ya

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: a lot more lockdown

[11:54] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: Well the sister company to Pzifer is in Germany.

[11:54] Ubit Umarov: as you said as log pressure on ICUs is high

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: yes but think central drugs thing in eu still did not approved it

[11:55] dj phil: There was life before and now, life after ... :(((

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: USA is about to or did today ?

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: FDA ?

[11:55] Ada Radius: each US state handles it differently

[11:55] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: USA at least a week behind

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: there is a federal entity

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: fda i think

[11:56] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: I have not heard myself. just he news that Pzifer released that the intial Vaccine buy was small.

[11:56] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: for the US.

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: don't remember the name of the EU central one :)

[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I heard the first person to get the vaccine was a 90 year old woman. Not sure which country that was in. Perhaps US.

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: uk is using Pzifer

[11:57] Ada Radius: until the election issues are resolved here and Biden is sworn in we won't see much progress here

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: it was UK andrew

[11:57] Ada Radius: no that was UK

[11:57] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: German biotech BioNTech

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: ok started it fully

[11:57] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: FDA review confirms safety and

efficacy of Pfizer coronavirus vaccine

[11:57] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: was the company that partnered iwith Pizfer..

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: they had approved it last week or so

[11:58] Ada Radius: Here I'm told the healthcare workers will get the vaccine first and that alone will take weeks or months, at least in California

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: yeah

[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour. Any last minutes questions related to Open Simulator before we start wrapping up todays meeting?

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: here ive no idea

[11:58] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: Just my previous question Andrew.

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: nothing wil start bf central EU approval

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: then we need to wait for any to actuall ship them to us

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: i don't believe vaccines avaialabitly will be that democratic across countries as they say

[11:59] Ada Radius: duh

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: we seen eu countries stealing shipments of masks that where to other countries

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: and ventilators etc

[12:00] Ada Radius: I may not need one - when the antibody tests are more reliable I'll find out

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: so vaccines will be "democratic"? well lets see

[12:01] Ada Radius: got to go, thank you everyone!

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: cya

[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Ada.

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: well but at least there is hope they wil work

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: thats the only fix for the pandemic

[12:02] Kayaker Magic: Bye Ada... POOF! No 15 second warning!

[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: vaccines will be going to the people who placed the original orders for them. One of the European countries ordered the vaccines early on so they will be amongst the first to get it.

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: was 14.9s kayaker

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: eu orders where central

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: and long ago

[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, to answer your earlier question, I haven't tried building that money module recently. I do have the source code for it on my machine. Was there a particular error you ran across during the attempt to build the module?

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: there was no vaccine ready :)

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: uk is preparing for vaccine since april or so

[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, There were some minor changes to the money module system a while back. the DTL/NSL money module may not have been updated to match the change.

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: i made fixes for one

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: on mantis somewhere

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: but since then, it may need more fixes

[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: The main change involves adding a handler for a new API call.

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: it is somewhere on mantis

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: same for gloeblits !!

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: their lastest dll does not work

[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, there you go. See if you can find it in the mantis system. Otherwise ask in IRC and I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: it needs to be compiled with opensim

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: and some settings added

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: that is also on mantis

[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I used to have the source code for the gloebits module. Not sure if I still do.

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: it is on github

[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, I do still have it.

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: i tis outdated :p

[12:07] dj phil: Bill made fork of and small updates

[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: um... no. I have a directory but just the compiled DLL file.

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: well there is a manits about it

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: yes bill fokr works

[12:07] Kayaker Magic: Reading the Mantis now....

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: Bill hardcoded some needed options

[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, what is the mantis number in case some other people want to read the report?

[12:08] Kayaker Magic: #8823

[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: ty

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: i helped fireandice go by the fixing process :)

[12:09] Kayaker Magic: Gloebit souces are available at their site. Those build fine for me.

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: an it is on mantis as i said

[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, 8823?? That is about llSetContentType.

[12:10] Kayaker Magic: #8688

[12:10] Kayaker Magic: I copied the wrong field....sorry

[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, that looks better. ty

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=8779

[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... the reporter said "Please dismantle HttpServer.". I don't think dismantle was the right word.

[12:11] Ubit Umarov: yes 6688 seems the dtl one

[12:11] Ubit Umarov: 8688

[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Steps to reproduce: All opensim without external HttpServer.

[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: The person doesn't seem to realize that without a web server that module won't work.

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: you missed "without external" that means with internal..

[12:13] Ubit Umarov: that was due to changes on our httpserver

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: done by that ubit guy

[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: This is the first time I've heard of someone needing a money system for OS that doesn't have an external web server.

[12:17] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go -- bye

[12:17] Ubit Umarov: cya

[12:18] dj phil: I still hope that one day we will have a functional money server for monopoly money (as was the case in aurora-sim)

[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Bye Selby.

[12:18] dj phil: ciao seb

[12:18] Ubit Umarov: even that $ has legal issues

[12:19] Jagga Meredith: Need help diagnosing a region issue. Running an 8x8 region on OSgrid on a relatively new 8 core server. Htop says CPu;s pretty much idle. Just upgraded to gig fibre network. Can move avatar once or twice, then can no longer move. What's my bottleneck?

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: and dtl is kinda that

[12:19] Ubit Umarov: without links to paypal done by something else

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: and dtl is kinda that

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: oops

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: :)

[12:20] Ubit Umarov: it is a inworld monopoly like $

[12:21] dj phil: dtl is complicated ... money server.exe, several dlls etc ...

Aurora needs 100% that with only 1 dll in an efficient and 100% functional way (also includes npc etc ...)

[12:21] dj phil: But you certainly know this :)

[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone have any thoughts about Jagga's issue?

[12:21] Ubit Umarov: as i said even that has legal issues

[12:22] Ubit Umarov: oops jagga issues?

[12:22] Jagga Meredith: Need help diagnosing a region issue. Running an 8x8 region on OSgrid on a relatively new 8 core server. Htop says CPu;s pretty much idle. Just upgraded to gig fibre network. Can move avatar once or twice, then can no longer move. What's my bottleneck?

[12:22] Ubit Umarov: no idea

[12:23] Ubit Umarov: that does not happen even on a rasp PI

[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, does movement get restored after a while?

[12:23] Kayaker Magic: Jagga, you said this didn't happen before you upgraded your network?

[12:23] Ubit Umarov: guess that takes some debug

[12:24] Jagga Meredith: yes. I magically move to new location and can move again. Happened on old networka s well

[12:24] Jagga Meredith: primary reason i upgraded

[12:24] Ubit Umarov: udp been badly hanlde?

[12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, it never fixes itself without changing regions?

[12:24] Ubit Umarov: all movement means udp trafic

[12:24] Jagga Meredith: fixes within region

[12:25] Jagga Meredith: just takes awhile

[12:25] Ubit Umarov: strange

[12:25] Jagga Meredith: I can spin around and see, just can't move

[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything to do with use of NAT in your network?

[12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it happen to people who visit your region from outside your local network?

[12:26] Jagga Meredith: I had to go with second router because ISP supplied router wouldn't do...

[12:26] Jagga Meredith: (forgot name)

[12:27] Jagga Meredith: where you can't route to y our own stuff inside network

[12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: That makes me think the first router was locked down by the ISP. Normally you just need to set up port forwarding in the router and use the IP address assigned to the connection to your house.

[12:28] Ubit Umarov: (loopback)

[12:28] Jagga Meredith: that's it

[12:28] Ubit Umarov: that is a odd issue

[12:29] Andrew Hellershanks: The other thing to check is any firewalls you may have in place in your router or on the computer running the regions

[12:29] Jagga Meredith: wonder if 2nd router is throttled

[12:30] Jagga Meredith: ok thanks

[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: It is now half past the hour. My cat has been trying to get me to go play since the meeting started. If there are no other last minute items for today it is time to wrap up this meeting.

[12:31] dj phil: time for me to go, ciao everyone :)

[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: bye, dj.

[12:31] Jagga Meredith: ok

[12:31] Darri.Cerise @gorgrid.ca:8002: Have a good day everyone. I am off also.

[12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Ok, bye Darri.

[12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. Think about whether we want to hold meetings on the 22 and 29th this year. See you all again next week.