Chat log from the meeting on 2012-10-02

 [2012/10/02 11:02] VivK Lowlag: hi Sarah [2012/10/02 11:02] dan banner: hey ari [2012/10/02 11:02] Sarah Kline: Hi Vivian [2012/10/02 11:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi nebadon [2012/10/02 11:02] Sarah Kline: Hi Justin [2012/10/02 11:02] dan banner: hey justin [2012/10/02 11:02] Richardus Raymaker: some here are in haloween mood :) [2012/10/02 11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, folks [2012/10/02 11:02]  Sarah Kline: Neb [2012/10/02 11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [2012/10/02 11:02]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [2012/10/02 11:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi [2012/10/02 11:03]  Arielle Popstar: Hi Justin [2012/10/02 11:03]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          d26fbf7: 2012-09-28 02:19:15 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [2012/10/02 11:03]  Manfred.Aabye @hypergrid.org:8002: Hi Leute [2012/10/02 11:03]  Richardus Raymaker: waiting for justin to get visible [2012/10/02 11:03]  Arielle Popstar: and Neb, Sarah, Blue, Taarna [2012/10/02 11:04]  Taarna Welles: Hello everybody [2012/10/02 11:04]  dan banner: hello [2012/10/02 11:04]  Sarah Kline: hi [2012/10/02 11:04]  Arielle Popstar: JayR, Viv and Marcus [2012/10/02 11:04]  Master Dubrovna: Hi everyone [2012/10/02 11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :) [2012/10/02 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: Justin I did change the flotsamcache timeout in the last OSgrid release [2012/10/02 11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok [2012/10/02 11:05]  JayR Cela: :_) [2012/10/02 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: really need a cache that expires based on requested cache size rather than at a set time [2012/10/02 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, your know most about thread problems ? anyway i have a very nice stacktrace. http://pastebin.com/9P1ngB5A get the idea that am running out of threads on linux ? [2012/10/02 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2012/10/02 11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: what really should only expire [2012/10/02 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: is avatar stuff [2012/10/02 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: the stuff in the scene really shouldnt expire unless a deep scan doesnt find it anymore [2012/10/02 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2012/10/02 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that would be sensible [2012/10/02 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: still watching my viewer pull down scads of stuff - I swear it doesn't cache anything [2012/10/02 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [2012/10/02 11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: depends on the viewer [2012/10/02 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey increases cache right up to 9984mb [2012/10/02 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: but ya stuff in the scene, it seems questionable as to what it is keeping [2012/10/02 11:08] Richardus Raymaker: well LL want to change code so the viewer use the cache better [2012/10/02 11:08] Marcus Llewellyn: Supposedly the viewer's cache is to be part of LL's current performance project at some point. [2012/10/02 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm actually still running LL 3.2.1 on Windows :). [2012/10/02 11:08]  Arielle Popstar: every fresh login seems to pull around 1500 items for me [2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: Melanie was saying viewrs that have the built in AO [2012/10/02 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, I seem to pull down lots and lots too, though maybe because I only had a 1GB (!) cache [2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: pull your entire inventory everytime you log in [2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: so they insure they get the assets it needs for the AO [2012/10/02 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: that would be rather shit [2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: that was the gist of what i caught anyway [2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: ya that was her conclusion as well [2012/10/02 11:09]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [2012/10/02 11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: hmmm. [2012/10/02 11:10]  Richardus Raymaker: i have done testing with 0b9bf23 and empty cache but it bring things to crawl if you use zen [2012/10/02 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I have not noticed that myself [2012/10/02 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i am using Zen right now too [2012/10/02 11:10] Richardus Raymaker: the common slow request problem nebadon [2012/10/02 11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect linden route inventory requests direct to their inventory sevice? Any idea? [2012/10/02 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I pretty much always use Zen [2012/10/02 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes [2012/10/02 11:11] Arielle Popstar: allow scripted ao in lbsa and likely many wouldnt bother with viewer ao [2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: the Slow Inventory requests on login [2012/10/02 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: are attributed to the AO [2012/10/02 11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: according to melanie [2012/10/02 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: because everytime you log in its pulling the entire inventory [2012/10/02 11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: why would an ao need to scan every inventory item though? [2012/10/02 11:11] Richardus Raymaker: ARielle, scripted AO i never use in opensim. just because many regions it dont work [2012/10/02 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: to get the animations [2012/10/02 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its stupid [2012/10/02 11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: doesn't it know the asset IDs? Why would it need the item component? [2012/10/02 11:11] Richardus Raymaker: i think justin hit the nail, the viewer know the uuid's the load. [2012/10/02 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: the problem with these 1/2 baked viewer AOs [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: is the animations can be anywhere [2012/10/02 11:12] Sarah Kline: Its just started doing this? [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: there is no specified place to put them [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so the viewer has to assume they are anywhere in the inventory, thus downloading the entire list [2012/10/02 11:12] Sarah Kline: had built in AOs for a long time now [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yes its not new Sarah [2012/10/02 11:12] Arielle Popstar: well easy to test by logging in with viewer ao turned off [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: but either is the slow request messages [2012/10/02 11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: that must result in fairly poor performance on the LL grid too though? [2012/10/02 11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: The AO's use inventory links. So the actual item could be in any folder. [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: probably [2012/10/02 11:12] Richardus Raymaker: well instead of animation names the could use asset uuid's for the animations. and store that [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: LL has the luxary of throwing more hardware at stuff though [2012/10/02 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2012/10/02 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: even so... this all sounds rermakbly dumb [2012/10/02 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hence the 150+ asset servers [2012/10/02 11:13] Arielle Popstar: wellmost 0f the viewers require ao to be in specific folder [2012/10/02 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I don't know the details [2012/10/02 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya, melanie can elaborate [2012/10/02 11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I really didnt catch the whole argument either [2012/10/02 11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: Oz Linden once asked for comments about viewr side AO on the opensource list. I haven't heard anything about an official one actually been greenlit, though. [2012/10/02 11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that shoud be an "apperance" setting like skin, size, etc. [2012/10/02 11:15]  Richardus Raymaker: he marcus [2012/10/02 11:15] tx Oh: EH-OH [2012/10/02 11:15] Arielle Popstar: would a viewer ao be any different from a scripted one? [2012/10/02 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes [2012/10/02 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: viewer AOs work when scripts are disabled [2012/10/02 11:15] Richardus Raymaker: yes, scipted ones dont work here 90% of the time [2012/10/02 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise they are pretty much the same [2012/10/02 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: generally with a script AO though [2012/10/02 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the animations are either UUID list [2012/10/02 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: or the animations are in the same prim as the script [2012/10/02 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: so inventory impact is much much lower [2012/10/02 11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I have heard of scripts that can work in regions where scripts are disabled but I don't know how one can do that. [2012/10/02 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: not really Andrew [2012/10/02 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: still, I'm really susprised that a viewer ao wouldn't just store the animatio nasset uuids and request those [2012/10/02 11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: There've been bugs that enabled it in the past. [2012/10/02 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: some of the scripted prim properties will make it appear the script is still working [2012/10/02 11:16] Arielle Popstar: i think that is more in s/l [2012/10/02 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: or at least item uuids. But, as you say, I don't know the details of this stuff [2012/10/02 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but if you try to recompile the script in those areas it will fail [2012/10/02 11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, in SL I have a translation device that is said to work in no script regions (but I haven't tested that) [2012/10/02 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: that would be interesting [2012/10/02 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but I am skeptical [2012/10/02 11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: So am I [2012/10/02 11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: unless it uses some kind of MOAP thing [2012/10/02 11:17] Sarah Kline: yes in SL some huds can still work [2012/10/02 11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to test it one day [2012/10/02 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: which could technically maybe be possible [2012/10/02 11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: It needs to listen to chat so I don't see how moap would work [2012/10/02 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya i guess maybe its possible, to be honest I have not used SL for a really long time [2012/10/02 11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: its not a good thing to have or else a griefer could use griefing scrsipts in no script regions [2012/10/02 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya, thats why I am skeptical, but perhaps certain functions may continue to work [2012/10/02 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: kind of like the OSSL threat level stuff [2012/10/02 11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks nods [2012/10/02 11:19] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i see all scripted objects always stop in no-script zone [2012/10/02 11:19] Richardus Raymaker: in sl [2012/10/02 11:19]  Sarah Kline: yes it its in a state [2012/10/02 11:19] VivK Lowlag: you can fly to 100m in sl to re-enble scripts [2012/10/02 11:19] Arielle Popstar: oh just noticed that my viewer ao was turned off and yet my inventory loaded 1600 items when i arrived [2012/10/02 11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: VivK: really? [2012/10/02 11:19] Sarah Kline: i think they extended that now lol [2012/10/02 11:19] dan banner: ya thats for flying aircraft [2012/10/02 11:19] Sarah Kline: ban lines reach up higher [2012/10/02 11:20] tx Oh: oh, i think there is something like limiting script functions [2012/10/02 11:20] Richardus Raymaker: hmm no sarah. ban lines are around 100 meters to [2012/10/02 11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah, you can bounce on the top of them [2012/10/02 11:20] VivK Lowlag: ban lines are infinite Rich [2012/10/02 11:20] Richardus Raymaker: yellow lines in firestorm ? that are ban lines. and i can always fly over them [2012/10/02 11:21] tx Oh: ban lines are for the a.. [2012/10/02 11:21] Richardus Raymaker: no, i always can fly over a banned parcel if you go around 140 meters [2012/10/02 11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: not good if you have a skybox at higher altitude [2012/10/02 11:21] Sarah Kline: yes your right its only bans that go up to 5020 m now [2012/10/02 11:22] Richardus Raymaker: i hate the people that think ban lines keep them save. but in the sky the dont work [2012/10/02 11:22] Sarah Kline: they extended it RIch [2012/10/02 11:22] tx Oh: who needs ban lines in a better world? [2012/10/02 11:22] Richardus Raymaker: right andrew, thats why its so dump the enabled it. because the dont work [2012/10/02 11:22] Nebadon Izumi: heh, well back to OpenSimulator, anyone have anything pressing they wanted to talk about thats OpenSimulator related? [2012/10/02 11:22] Richardus Raymaker: Sarah, the wrong direction i think :) [2012/10/02 11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was having another look at my changes to excluding things from IAR files [2012/10/02 11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: I have something I want to show you later Justin, about a Radar HUD [2012/10/02 11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: well, not sure if neb answhere. got not long ago this nice strcktrace. http://pastebin.com/9P1ngB5A [2012/10/02 11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: stacktrace [2012/10/02 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ok [2012/10/02 11:23]  Arielle Popstar: are incremental iar saves possible using a date? [2012/10/02 11:23]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: rsync iars [2012/10/02 11:24]  tx Oh: can't you just use tar --remove-files on the IAR? [2012/10/02 11:24]  Richardus Raymaker: if you do the iar bij remateadmin you can add your filename arielle [2012/10/02 11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: the Gist of it is though Justin [2012/10/02 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: getting through 1.35 mb per second - that's extreme [2012/10/02 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: remember how i was telling you in some of my testing we were seeing 160-200% cpu load with 7-8 avatars [2012/10/02 11:24] Arielle Popstar: 1.2 gb saves take a long time [2012/10/02 11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: I always have a datestamp as part of my IAR filename. [2012/10/02 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: well it turns out the radar hud is the cause [2012/10/02 11:24] Richardus Raymaker: aha. now you give usefull information justin. now i start to udnerstand the curn [2012/10/02 11:24] Collar-Cuff-mesh: [INFO]You are owned by lillith xue [2012/10/02 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: well, that might just point out something that happened earlier - but it's an extremely high figure I think [2012/10/02 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: or is it [2012/10/02 11:25]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Nebadon - does it do that in a sim with just one avatar ? [2012/10/02 11:25] Richardus Raymaker: sound like am still at square one with train. but this on linux justin. and that is a bit more stricht then windows [2012/10/02 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: no hold on, I'm talking rubbish - it's high but not that unusual right now [2012/10/02 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, misreading [2012/10/02 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: the CPU is higher with 1 avatar wearing it yes BlueWall [2012/10/02 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is all the avatars are wearing the HUD [2012/10/02 11:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: do you have a copy of the script? [2012/10/02 11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Stupid network connection keeps dropping now and then [2012/10/02 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so around 7 things get really horrible [2012/10/02 11:25] Richardus Raymaker: its ok justin. its not easy all the numbers. [2012/10/02 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: have you looked act exactly what the hud is doing? [2012/10/02 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I dont at the moment, and I am actually going to have to cut out about 15 minutes early today [2012/10/02 11:26] tx Oh: what hud? [2012/10/02 11:26] Arielle Popstar: must be on Bell Andrew [2012/10/02 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but as soon as I am back I will hop on IRC with the script [2012/10/02 11:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, me too [2012/10/02 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: well, that kind of native crash can be really hard to diagnose [2012/10/02 11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: :-) [2012/10/02 11:26]  Marcus Llewellyn: Does the HUD use SensorRepeat in a nasty wayor anything? [2012/10/02 11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: justin, its not that am running out of threads ? [2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: just briefly Justin, I have not figured out the cause though [2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec let me grab the script [2012/10/02 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I would not think so [2012/10/02 11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: it looked pretty basic [2012/10/02 11:26]  sim core: :-S [2012/10/02 11:26]  tx Oh: oh, apropos irc [2012/10/02 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, rira: I would not think so [2012/10/02 11:26]  Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know how much of what I said came through before my connection dropped [2012/10/02 11:26]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have some scanner scripts running around, but they seem ok [2012/10/02 11:27]  tx Oh: i've heared group chat leads to lags?! [2012/10/02 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its the fact its a HUD [2012/10/02 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats causing the lag [2012/10/02 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: ok. i have the idea to have osSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast with as extra option delay parameter. so e dont need llSleep [2012/10/02 11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: so with hud lots of cpu use - without much lower? [2012/10/02 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: yes its like 8-10 times lower [2012/10/02 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: without the huds [2012/10/02 11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ahh [2012/10/02 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: it goes from 160% to 10% [2012/10/02 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: something like that [2012/10/02 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its crazy [2012/10/02 11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [2012/10/02 11:28]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: does it change textures or anything? [2012/10/02 11:28] tx Oh: what hud are you talking about? [2012/10/02 11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if you use fast you don't usually want a delay [2012/10/02 11:28] dan banner: client side radar is alot nicer [2012/10/02 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: justin, still not figured out why the train crash the simon linux but on windows there's no pain [2012/10/02 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: heh i guess its not as simple as I remembered it being [2012/10/02 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: http://pastebin.com/gsswnQM3 [2012/10/02 11:28] pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: hi [2012/10/02 11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, yes becaue that parameter is to fast. and llSetPos or any other idea is to slow [2012/10/02 11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: hi pierro [2012/10/02 11:29] lillith xue: hi all [2012/10/02 11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Well, that HUD really doesn't need to be sensing once a second, for starters. [2012/10/02 11:29] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, i tried smaller steps but then it still seems to buffer the positions and let the prim still jump [2012/10/02 11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: llSleep is also not fine enough control for delay? [2012/10/02 11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: well, on a quick skim there's mnothing obviuos, but maybe this isn't the best place to talk further about that [2012/10/02 11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: hi lillith [2012/10/02 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya, I dont have a whole lot more time to talk now about it anyway [2012/10/02 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: either later today, or whenever you have some time [2012/10/02 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: o [2012/10/02 11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok [2012/10/02 11:30]  tx Oh: a scan every second is maybe to much anyway [2012/10/02 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably [2012/10/02 11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'll look at it in my grid later [2012/10/02 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: cool [2012/10/02 11:30] Richardus Raymaker: tried nebadons ide with for delay. but that eat all cpu because the loop is in the 300000 [2012/10/02 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya, you really do need to be careful how long they run [2012/10/02 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: so your train consistently triggers a native mono crash on linux? [2012/10/02 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it can totally hose up threads [2012/10/02 11:31] Richardus Raymaker: the last days it happens almost once a day [2012/10/02 11:31] tx Oh: well, you could switch in a idle state with a timer set and when timer hit switch back [2012/10/02 11:31] Richardus Raymaker: i needed to use llSleep(0.03); to make the train visible move [2012/10/02 11:31] Richardus Raymaker: tx, the normal timers are to slow [2012/10/02 11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm also wondering why it's using a timer with llGetAttached to see if it's attached, instead of just using teh attach event. [2012/10/02 11:32] tx Oh: the timer in opensim is per default to a sec or so [2012/10/02 11:32]  Allen Kerensky: llSleep is throttled at 0.5s as a minimum is what I've heard... anything less than 0.5s becomes 0.5s silently [2012/10/02 11:32] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: need that llSetKeyframedMotion [2012/10/02 11:32] Richardus Raymaker: and i dont like the change the parameter in the ini [2012/10/02 11:32] Richardus Raymaker: yes blue, i played with it in sl. thats really good. i like it already. when does it work here ? :)) [2012/10/02 11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Allen, that is probably what the LSL Wiki states for llSleep [2012/10/02 11:33] Allen Kerensky: if I remember correctly, it was a comment on Mantis from a core dev [2012/10/02 11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Avn will contrib it back at some point [2012/10/02 11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: signpostmarv worked on a version [2012/10/02 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: that doesn't stop anybody implementing it in the meantime [2012/10/02 11:33] Richardus Raymaker: asked already on forum whats the difference between llSleep and in C# thread.sleep tho both stop the thrread. only the lat one is used at many lsl commands [2012/10/02 11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ jcc [2012/10/02 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: at which point that version would take precedence [2012/10/02 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: allen: yes, we've been through this on the mailing lists a couple of times - unfortunately i don't remember the details - need to wikify them next time [2012/10/02 11:34] Richardus Raymaker: someone try to make llSetKeyframedMotion if you follow mailinglist [2012/10/02 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: On OpenSmiulator llSleep == C# sleep [2012/10/02 11:34] Richardus Raymaker: tjustin, then.... why is opensim with lsl stoppin so many times threads ? [2012/10/02 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: and in theory it's not particularly accurate on c#, 10-20 ms [2012/10/02 11:35]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: when we get into c#5 w/async we can help those situations a little [2012/10/02 11:35] Richardus Raymaker: soudns not healty on heavy scripted region [2012/10/02 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: c# sleep stops a thread [2012/10/02 11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, that sounds like the standard PC timer tick resolution [2012/10/02 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: to do something else may require a fundamentally different script engine approach [2012/10/02 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes [2012/10/02 11:35] Richardus Raymaker: yes justin, i looked in the opensim code. its done with many lsl commands [2012/10/02 11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: rira: that's to implement the standard lsl command delays [2012/10/02 11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Marcus Llewellyn looks foward to a version of XEngine with async. [2012/10/02 11:37] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: just having it won't make it any better - the capability [2012/10/02 11:37] Richardus Raymaker: until now still have chicken egg problem. llsetpos to slow parametersfast = to gast [2012/10/02 11:37] Richardus Raymaker: to gast [2012/10/02 11:37] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it will need an overhaul [2012/10/02 11:37] Richardus Raymaker: justin, anyway your undo fix works perfect sofar i see on windows. and linux seems perfect to [2012/10/02 11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, good [2012/10/02 11:38] Richardus Raymaker: thats why i switched back to linux. more easy with maintance. but it crash always. [2012/10/02 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Just a heads up I have to go in 7 minutes [2012/10/02 11:38] Richardus Raymaker: ok [2012/10/02 11:38]  nurbsPlane9: DynamicTextureModule: Error preparing image using URL http://images.intellicast.com/WxImages/Radar/usa.gif [2012/10/02 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: so if anyone has anything for me please let me know now [2012/10/02 11:39] Arielle Popstar: my inventory is no longer loading here [2012/10/02 11:39] Richardus Raymaker: are ypou going to try soon a new head nebadon ? [2012/10/02 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: newer than the OSgrid release you mean? [2012/10/02 11:39] Arielle Popstar: first 600 items loaded fast then it stalled with 1031 to go [2012/10/02 11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: the one with if i read it right more connectons instead of 2 [2012/10/02 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: oh Melanies patch? [2012/10/02 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yea I guess we dont have that yet [2012/10/02 11:39] Richardus Raymaker: hmm think your right [2012/10/02 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya we'll need to test that [2012/10/02 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but ya maybe soon [2012/10/02 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure about that - bu,mping the active connwections from 2 to 12 [2012/10/02 11:40] Richardus Raymaker: seems my train sim is just below that [2012/10/02 11:40] tx Oh: richardus: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=2719 [2012/10/02 11:40] pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: i have a question if possible ( with my poor english ) :) [2012/10/02 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: Not sure how that would scale over the whole of osgrid - need to think about it [2012/10/02 11:40]  Arielle Popstar: hope that helps with inventory loads [2012/10/02 11:40]  tx Oh: see this if you need faster timers [2012/10/02 11:40]  Marcus Llewellyn: The viewer does 8 simultaneous requets by default, I believe. [2012/10/02 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: sure pierro [2012/10/02 11:40]  tx Oh: a undocumented feature [2012/10/02 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, I think it might be 2 [2012/10/02 11:41]  Marcus Llewellyn: Firestorm is definitely 8. [2012/10/02 11:41]  pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: just to know if next HG 2.0 is backward compatible with HG 1.5 for TP only ? [2012/10/02 11:41]  Dahlia Trimble: hi [2012/10/02 11:41]  Arielle Popstar: supposed to be Pierro [2012/10/02 11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: Hiya Dahlia [2012/10/02 11:41] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia [2012/10/02 11:41] pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: and with OS version integrate HG 2.0 as base ? [2012/10/02 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: pierro: I believe Crista/Diva said that HG 2.0 is completely backward compatible with HG 1.5 [2012/10/02 11:41] tx Oh: group chat. dahlia name it [2012/10/02 11:41] pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: thk justin [2012/10/02 11:41] tx Oh: can't we use a irc server for that? [2012/10/02 11:41] Richardus Raymaker: tx, thanks i know that paremater. but if i cant set it at 0.03 its useless but thats what i want to try with normal commands or something like that [2012/10/02 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: She would certainly be the person to ask on IRC #opensim-dev [2012/10/02 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: irc.freenode.net [2012/10/02 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: pierro: The next release of OpenSimulator will contain HG 2.0 or whatever is developed at that point [2012/10/02 11:42] pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: again thk justin for they infos [2012/10/02 11:42] Richardus Raymaker: cool justin [2012/10/02 11:42] pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: thk [2012/10/02 11:42] sim core: :-? I'm mostly wondering why we are dependant on ode to use the physics engine just for avatar collisions with prims, it seems to be unavailable with the other engines [2012/10/02 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: sim: ? The other evngine is bullet and that would do it just fine [2012/10/02 11:43] Dahlia Trimble: anyone notice memory leaks when using mono but not with windows? [2012/10/02 11:43] Richardus Raymaker: bullet is right now not bad, i tried it a few times now.. [2012/10/02 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys [2012/10/02 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i have to run [2012/10/02 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: bye neb [2012/10/02 11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Later, Neb [2012/10/02 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be back on IRC a bit later [2012/10/02 11:43] tx Oh: sim core, you can just switch to basic physics [2012/10/02 11:43] dan banner: have fun neb [2012/10/02 11:43] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, with or withut warp3d ? [2012/10/02 11:43] Sarah Kline: bye Neb [2012/10/02 11:43] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i dont see leaks [2012/10/02 11:43] Dahlia Trimble: later neb [2012/10/02 11:43] tx Oh: it's better for overall performance [2012/10/02 11:43] Richardus Raymaker: bye neb [2012/10/02 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: hard to tell with that other memory leak recently where undo was not being limited [2012/10/02 11:44] Dahlia Trimble: Richardus, with I guess [2012/10/02 11:44] tx Oh: bye neb [2012/10/02 11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: So much for Firestorm. It sort of crashed when I switched to different window and returned [2012/10/02 11:44] lillith xue: theres a little leak [2012/10/02 11:44] Dahlia Trimble: little? [2012/10/02 11:44] Richardus Raymaker: try it without warp3d, that one eat memory like a hippo [2012/10/02 11:44] sim core: :-J I think windows leaks, it's just the tools for seeing it is less well made [2012/10/02 11:44] Taarna Welles: Welcome back Andrew :) [2012/10/02 11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: ty [2012/10/02 11:44]  lillith xue: takes months to fill all my memory ;-) [2012/10/02 11:44] Dahlia Trimble: I can fill it fast :) [2012/10/02 11:45]  Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia scipted moveing prim ? because that have justin fixt with the undo limit [2012/10/02 11:45]  Dahlia Trimble: no moving prims [2012/10/02 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: no rotation or rescaling? [2012/10/02 11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: I know the leak is in a module Im developing, but I only see it on mono [2012/10/02 11:46]  tx Oh: there was really an undo stack on scripted prim manipulation? [2012/10/02 11:46]  Dahlia Trimble: just curious if others see it too [2012/10/02 11:46]  tx Oh: :-) [2012/10/02 11:46] Richardus Raymaker: i just run linux for a few days again dahlia.. but looks fine here [2012/10/02 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: yes and still is - unfortunately it's hard to remove because it's tightly bound in the code [2012/10/02 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: one day [2012/10/02 11:47] lillith xue: my server ran out-of-memory some days ago after 3-4 months of uptime [2012/10/02 11:47] tx Oh: i hope the next 1 1/2 weeks will pass by quickly [2012/10/02 11:48] Richardus Raymaker: omg does that still run smooth the region after 4 months up ? [2012/10/02 11:48] lillith xue: after restarting all opensim instances all works normaly ;-) [2012/10/02 11:48]  Dahlia Trimble: I talked to a mono dev but he couldnt find the specific problem. He thought it may be a bug int the mono framework [2012/10/02 11:48]  Marcus Llewellyn: A sim will run pretty much indefinitely if no pesky users enter it. ;) [2012/10/02 11:48] Richardus Raymaker: well, windows is good for opensim. not for maintance. the restarts always are.... [2012/10/02 11:48] tx Oh: lillith, maybe your server is undead too [2012/10/02 11:48] Allen Kerensky: October is a good month for undead sims [2012/10/02 11:48] lillith xue: lol ;-) [2012/10/02 11:49]  Andrew Hellershanks: jhehe [2012/10/02 11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: ghosts dont need to worry this month [2012/10/02 11:49]  lillith xue: well im using an old version of openSuSE [2012/10/02 11:49]  lillith xue: think i use an old version of mono too ;-) [2012/10/02 11:49] Richardus Raymaker: wich suse version ? [2012/10/02 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: I hope you're thinking about upgrading at some point :) [2012/10/02 11:49]  Dahlia Trimble: maybe I need an old version :) [2012/10/02 11:49] Richardus Raymaker: 11.x have mono 2.6.x sofar i know [2012/10/02 11:49] tx Oh: anyway, group chat. why does it lag and is there a way to get it solved? [2012/10/02 11:49] lillith xue: 11.x im not sure 2 or 3 [2012/10/02 11:50] Richardus Raymaker: sims seems to lag a bt more on plaza's [2012/10/02 11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: tx: I haven't looked at it closely, but I suspect that group chat sends an individual IM to everyboyd in the group [2012/10/02 11:50] Dahlia Trimble: why does it lag, where? on osgrid? [2012/10/02 11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: which as you can imagine would not scale well with a big group [2012/10/02 11:50] Richardus Raymaker: plaza's have sometimes lag. i see here sometimes chat lag to now [2012/10/02 11:51] Dahlia Trimble: the group chat code is pretty minimal and not designed for lots of traffic [2012/10/02 11:51] tx Oh: isn't it good to utilize a irc server for group chat? [2012/10/02 11:51] Dahlia Trimble: IRC limits message size [2012/10/02 11:51] Allen Kerensky: IRC has its own issues at scale [2012/10/02 11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: Group chat really ought have a central service, rather than routing through simulators. [2012/10/02 11:51] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes i have the feeling that map requests are going the same way as group.. so many requests [2012/10/02 11:52] Dahlia Trimble: maps use the same pipeline as textures [2012/10/02 11:52] tx Oh: i ever thought that lindens group chat problems could be solved with an irc server network [2012/10/02 11:52] dan banner: IRC scales very well [2012/10/02 11:52] tx Oh: irc has proven to survive [2012/10/02 11:53] Richardus Raymaker: irc is good. [2012/10/02 11:53] Allen Kerensky: group chat needs some sort of dedicated message broker service [2012/10/02 11:53] Dahlia Trimble: IRC scales very well [2012/10/02 11:53] pierro.lefou @hg.francogrid.org: it's time for me - thk for info - and have a good evening all :) bonsoir a toutes et tous et a bientÃ´t [2012/10/02 11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye pierro :) [2012/10/02 11:53] Taarna Welles: bye Pierro [2012/10/02 11:53] Allen Kerensky: one word of disagreement on IRC scaling: netsplit [2012/10/02 11:53] tx Oh: bye pierro [2012/10/02 11:53] Dahlia Trimble: I see IRC channels with thousands of users [2012/10/02 11:53] Allen Kerensky: IRC works yes, but that's not the same thing as looking at what's out there now, 25 years of Internet development later [2012/10/02 11:54] Dahlia Trimble: you mean XMPP? [2012/10/02 11:54] Allen Kerensky: For example: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Message_Queue_Evaluation_Notes#RabbitMQ [2012/10/02 11:54] tx Oh: lol, and still no real replacement for irc [2012/10/02 11:54] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia. eeuw. [2012/10/02 11:54] Arielle Popstar: stood the test of time [2012/10/02 11:54] tx Oh: xmpp is soap, way to complicated [2012/10/02 11:54] Richardus Raymaker: LL have still not chal and group lag fixt [2012/10/02 11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: IRC PRIVMSGs just include the channel as a parameter. Channels are sort of illusionary where messaging is concerned. [2012/10/02 11:55] Dahlia Trimble: ZeroMQ is supposedly good too [2012/10/02 11:55] Dahlia Trimble: but untested for a group chat application [2012/10/02 11:55] Allen Kerensky: this is a test grid, no? [2012/10/02 11:55]  Richardus Raymaker: depends who you ask allen [2012/10/02 11:55] Dahlia Trimble: knock yourself ou :) [2012/10/02 11:55]  Dahlia Trimble: *out [2012/10/02 11:55]  Allen Kerensky: nodnod RiRa [2012/10/02 11:55]  tx Oh: it is the test grid [2012/10/02 11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, for that i dont need a test grid. just a second viewer [2012/10/02 11:56]  Allen Kerensky: that's why I only ask, never state, these days [2012/10/02 11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I would make sure the current chat is as efficient as possible first [2012/10/02 11:56]  Marcus Llewellyn: An overhaul of group chat architecture that eases simulator burdens would also require viewer development, don't forget. [2012/10/02 11:56]  Arielle Popstar: tests code and patience :) [2012/10/02 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not as if any grid is big enough to really stress a group chat system [2012/10/02 11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I like Taarna's AFK balloon [2012/10/02 11:57] Allen Kerensky: another oddball thought is whether or not multicast would work for group chat [2012/10/02 11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, yes [2012/10/02 11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd like to eliminate the PHP stuff used by groups but to do that properly would be a way to issue SQL queries in a way that isn't tied to a given database engine [2012/10/02 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm reminded of greg bear's eternity sci fi where avatars would have country flags projected over their shoulders [2012/10/02 11:58] Allen Kerensky: while we're wishing out loud - I miss group proposals heh [2012/10/02 11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: group proposals? [2012/10/02 11:58] Richardus Raymaker: i have disabled group chat. only use the notices system [2012/10/02 11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: You endorsing a switch to communication via pure iconography, justin? ;) [2012/10/02 11:59] Allen Kerensky: sorry, showing my age I guess - a way to do polling through the groups mechanism [2012/10/02 11:59]  Dahlia Trimble: if anyone wants to experiment with alternative group chat, they might find this useful http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/jabberimproxy/ [2012/10/02 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: i never have done or sen that in sl. [2012/10/02 11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: Allen, I think I've heard of it but never seen it in use [2012/10/02 11:59]  tx Oh: oh, i rember the lindens rating system. [2012/10/02 11:59]  Allen Kerensky: nod tx I miss ratings too [2012/10/02 11:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: I'm surprised we don't see more of them :) [2012/10/02 11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Ratings are overrated ;-) [2012/10/02 11:59]  Richardus Raymaker: :) [2012/10/02 12:00] tx Oh: i made l$ by rate people [2012/10/02 12:00] tx Oh: :-) [2012/10/02 12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: Someone would just try and find a way to "stuff the ballot box" [2012/10/02 12:00]  Marcus Llewellyn: It was being able to split your consciousness up into "ghosts" to multitask that I liked from those books. ;) [2012/10/02 12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: justin - I will try to get the plugin system in this week... [2012/10/02 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: about as good as web-polling, looking at someone's twitter follower numbers or the number of likes on facebook [2012/10/02 12:00] Allen Kerensky: oh ratings had gaming problems so LL dropped it - and group proposals failed more than worked on SLgrid, so LL dropped that too - I think they even removed the UI tab now [2012/10/02 12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Anyhoo, I gotta scoot. [2012/10/02 12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I need to do a little cleanup and arrange the commit history a little [2012/10/02 12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Marcus Llewellyn smiles and waves. :) [2012/10/02 12:01] Dahlia Trimble: me too, bye all :) [2012/10/02 12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye marcus [2012/10/02 12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Dahlia [2012/10/02 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: ok [2012/10/02 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [2012/10/02 12:01] Arielle Popstar: waves [2012/10/02 12:01] dan banner: bye all [2012/10/02 12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [2012/10/02 12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye dan [2012/10/02 12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it is not 100% ready and there are a couple of things I want to do with it [2012/10/02 12:01]  tx Oh: bye to the leavers [2012/10/02 12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Would regex expressions be ok when excluding stuff from IAR saves? [2012/10/02 12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: will develop those on the fly [2012/10/02 12:02] Sarah Kline: byes all [2012/10/02 12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: group input will improge it [2012/10/02 12:02]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: improve [2012/10/02 12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Sarah [2012/10/02 12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye sarah [2012/10/02 12:02] tx Oh: regex for iar would be a cool feature :-) [2012/10/02 12:02]  tx Oh: but in the and, it's just a tar file [2012/10/02 12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: A glob approach may be easier [2012/10/02 12:02]  Richardus Raymaker: still dotn see group chat as important. there enough other things to fix. [2012/10/02 12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: Does C# have globbing? [2012/10/02 12:03]  tx Oh: group chat is important [2012/10/02 12:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: I look for a simple wildcard pattern matching and its the one thing that doesn't appear to be in C# [2012/10/02 12:03]  Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          d26fbf7: 2012-09-28 02:19:15 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [2012/10/02 12:03]  tx Oh: it's vital for community building [2012/10/02 12:03]  Allen Kerensky: agreed tx [2012/10/02 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, though it doesn't look like converting a glob to a regex undwereneath is that complicated [2012/10/02 12:04] Arielle Popstar: group chat helps to coordinate the fixes for other issues [2012/10/02 12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we probably need to have some industriasl strength applications, like we do with profiles [2012/10/02 12:04] Allen Kerensky: group chat and group proposals are both very useful for groups that are not "announce only" [2012/10/02 12:04] Richardus Raymaker: learn people to use irc :O [2012/10/02 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: so what's wrong with group chat at the moment? [2012/10/02 12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we have core OS modules that provide basic services [2012/10/02 12:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: those can get replaced with addons [2012/10/02 12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I was starting to think that the only way to handle wildcard is to convert to regex and just hope someone hasn't stuck a regex symbol in the name of the item (ie. a ?) [2012/10/02 12:05] tx Oh: this world should be immersive [2012/10/02 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: then you have to escape those [2012/10/02 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: since ? would be very common [2012/10/02 12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ? [2012/10/02 12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: you can't ask someone to escape the ? they want to keep in the name of their items [2012/10/02 12:05] Allen Kerensky: group chats either fail to send, lag badly, or "stall" somewhere causing the viewer or region to fall over [2012/10/02 12:05] Allen Kerensky: I haven't tested the group chat crash in a while [2012/10/02 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: anrew: yes, so the code has to properly handle that case [2012/10/02 12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I remember looking in the group code and saw that we copy as message into the database for each group member [2012/10/02 12:05] Richardus Raymaker: last time i tried it. it still did freeze the region [2012/10/02 12:05] Allen Kerensky: but sometimes its like you can receive group chats, but sending one causes huge delays somewhere [2012/10/02 12:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and, I think there is no way to clean those - no cap [2012/10/02 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: allen: Might be another case where it should be performed on a separate thread [2012/10/02 12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: it would be so much simpler to have wildcard pattern match as a callable routine. C# has so many other things already included. Lack of wildcard support seems to be be a major oversight [2012/10/02 12:07] tx Oh: really? chat via sql? [2012/10/02 12:07] Allen Kerensky: i get the vague feeling it has something to do with underlying internet issues that don't deliver the message in a timely fashion and the message handler gets into a bad state somewhere, based on some console error messages [2012/10/02 12:07] Allen Kerensky: tx: yes, there is a chat via sql in OSG already, called OWI [2012/10/02 12:07] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, did snoopy made that ? [2012/10/02 12:07] Allen Kerensky: yes [2012/10/02 12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I like how you can send a message to a group, get a message saying it failed and then it still appears in the gorup chat window [2012/10/02 12:08] Richardus Raymaker: i know the 3 letters :) [2012/10/02 12:08]  Allen Kerensky: and Lani implemented a layer on it she calls "subspace" [2012/10/02 12:08]  Andrew Hellershanks: chat via sql would have more overhead [2012/10/02 12:08]  Allen Kerensky: not to mention a really hot table [2012/10/02 12:09]  Arielle Popstar: you can get that on tp's too [2012/10/02 12:09]  Arielle Popstar: get a tp failed message then wind up where you wanted top go [2012/10/02 12:09]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how many on-line avatars in a group seem to make it start failing? [2012/10/02 12:10]  Andrew Hellershanks: if I get tp failed I don[t think I've ever wound up where I was going [2012/10/02 12:10]  tx Oh: i don't mind if a group message get lost when i tp. [2012/10/02 12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I expect tjhe base code could do with work - though at least IM is being handled asynchronously [2012/10/02 12:10] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know a few 100 [2012/10/02 12:10] Arielle Popstar: clicking Cancel TP is useless [2012/10/02 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I doublt one needs to get into the complexities of actually transporting group messages differently at this poitn [2012/10/02 12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, yes [2012/10/02 12:10] Richardus Raymaker: Not useless arielle, but the resulkt after the cancel is like lottery [2012/10/02 12:10] Taarna Welles: Peeps I got to dash. CU next week [2012/10/02 12:11] Richardus Raymaker: byw taarna [2012/10/02 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I need to go as well [2012/10/02 12:11] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [2012/10/02 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: See you all later [2012/10/02 12:11] tx Oh: bye bye [2012/10/02 12:11] Arielle Popstar: waves [2012/10/02 12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll continue to occasionally dig around for ways to do wildcarding in C# [2012/10/02 12:11]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Justin