Chat log from the meeting on 2019-10-22

[11:02] Kayaker Magic: I hope Gavin shows up. [11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Viewer related questions today, Kayaker? [11:03] Kayaker Magic: Actually, I wanted to ask him why some code, like XEngine, compiles on x86 processors and on ARM processors, but other code, like YEngine, works onx86 but not ARM. [11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It won't compile or doesn't work? [11:04] Ubit Umarov: does not work on arm? [11:04] Ubit Umarov: who told you that? [11:05] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: The usual reason why something may not work is usually Library support, but I was not aware Yengine had that problem, [11:05] Kayaker Magic: Compiles, then doesn't work. I suppose it is a mono question, but Gavin did get XEngine to work on ARM [11:05] Kayaker Magic: I tried switching to YEngine on a working Pi 4 system, and it failed to come up.... I forget what it said in the log. [11:06] Kayaker Magic: I'll try angain before next week and take notes. [11:06] Ubit Umarov: strange [11:06] Ubit Umarov: well let me know [11:06] Ubit Umarov: i have no arms [11:06] Kayaker Magic: will do! [11:06] Kayaker Magic: lol [11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hehe [11:07] Ubit Umarov: well arm cpus :p [11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have several arm cpus but never tried running OS on any of them. [11:07] Kayaker Magic: I had an epiphany about threat level and the check-before-calling OSSL function: [11:08] Ubit Umarov hides [11:08] Kayaker Magic: My function cannot know the threat level of another function, but I can arrange to just return FALSE for any function that is determined only by threat level. [11:09] Kayaker Magic: So I wrote a short and sweet OSSL function that just returns the results of the internal check allow permissions function. [11:09] Kayaker Magic: I'm still testing, but hope to submit it for inclusion in master this week. [11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sounds like a plan, Kayaker. [11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I always thought there should be a relatively simple solution to the issue(s) that were previously discussed. [11:11] Kayaker Magic: Because it cannot see threat levels, it will sometime return false negatives, but only in places like LBSA plaza where they have disabled the ossl Allow permissions. [11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Any one have some questions or comments related to OS while we are waiting to see if Gavin will be here today? [11:23] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org hears crickets [11:24] Kayaker Magic: Ubit, was I correct about those overloaded OSSL functions that didn't do threat level checking? [11:25] Ubit Umarov: you spoke about several [11:26] Ubit Umarov: and for me OSSL is just opensim set of LSL extensions [11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Many of the math functions and such don't have threat levels, why would they need them [11:26] Ubit Umarov: to totally disable it is nonsense [11:26] Ubit Umarov: of the SL pure CLONE days [11:26] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Opensimulator without Opensimulator functions is Halcyon [11:26] Kayaker Magic: For the record: Some of the OSSL function have several different overloaded versions. I noticed that a few of those did not do the Allow permissions or threat level check on all the overloaded version. [11:26] Ubit Umarov: even considering some still seem to live on that [11:27] Kayaker Magic: This means that those functions can be called even if disabled by the region owner in the osslEnable.ini file. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: osSlerp is a math helper [11:27] Ubit Umarov: etc [11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm wondering why osGetSunParam has restrictions on its use. I can understand the restrictions for setting the sun info. [11:27] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Why do things like math functions need restrictions? [11:27] Ubit Umarov: those sun things are just half broken [11:28] Ubit Umarov: our enviromente control is a mess [11:28] Kayaker Magic: I submitted mantis 8605 about it, but marked it private since it is a security issue. [11:28] Ubit Umarov: well like a lot other things [11:29] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: how is osApproxEquals a security issue? [11:30] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: or osRound osVecMagSquare osVecDistSquare osAngleBetween [11:31] Ubit Umarov: well as i said, there a was a school to totaly disable OSSL; LS etc [11:32] Kayaker Magic: Ah, that is a different mantis 8608. If you disable all OSSL functions, those innocuous ones will still work. Just suggesting consistency: dissable means disable.. [11:32] Ubit Umarov: im out that school [11:32] Ubit Umarov: and i'm sure not doing that by adding a check on every call [11:32] Ubit Umarov: that is the wrong way of doing it [11:32] Ubit Umarov: the silly way.. [11:32] Kayaker Magic: Or re-write the documentation to say "disable all OSSL functions means only disable the dangerous ones" [11:32] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I"d never be in that school either [11:33] Ubit Umarov: a full API disable should be done on a different way [11:33] Ubit Umarov: that i will not do, because for me OSSL == opensim [11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: ** [11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: That [11:33] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: yeah [11:33] Ubit Umarov: you may see a few fights inside core about that.. details [11:34] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, hard for me to imagine anyone wanting to disable them, but if they do, it would be nice if it worked. [11:34] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: if they do hey can use Halcyon .. :P [11:34] Ubit Umarov: some old ideas are stuck deeply [11:34] Ubit Umarov: ( i also have my own set :p ) [11:34] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: Like wanting to drive your car with No Wheels ... go ride a train ... LOL [11:40] Ubit Umarov: well ive no idea about EEP [11:40] Ubit Umarov: no point changing current enviroment settings without seening it [11:41] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I don't think LL has much of an idea about it, as much trouble as they are having with it. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: they did change all servers [11:41] Ubit Umarov: guess having issues on viewers ??? [11:43] Ubit Umarov: only did read about some black starts [11:45] Ubit Umarov: gezzz we do need change this sits to beds [11:45] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz [11:45] Ubit Umarov: since ppl always fall a sleep on this meetings [11:46] Kayaker Magic: Last week was more acrimonious [11:47] Ubit Umarov flüstert: well ive no news about FS [11:47] Ubit Umarov: all fs devs are afk for me again :) [11:47] Ubit Umarov: no idea how openstorm is now broken [11:48] Ubit Umarov: but it is also a viewer for 0.9.1.0 only [11:49] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: how is it broken? [11:49] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: I"m using it now [11:49] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I don't fall asleep, but I do timeshare. [11:49] Kayaker Magic: Well, allowing Bill to play with it would break anything! [11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: i'm almost falling asleep but that is because I've been fighting a cold for the last couple of days. So far I'm holding it at bay. [11:50] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am using FS64 5.1.7x.. works fine [11:50] Ubit Umarov: 6.0.2 also works [11:51] Ubit Umarov: even 6.3.x works [11:51] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: whatever mine works fine, no comment on your busted computers [11:51] Bill.Blight @hg.osgrid.org: :P [11:52] Ubit Umarov: but idea of 6.3 is BoM suport.. and its potential issues on older regions [11:52] Bill Blight: Openstorm is based on the 6.3.3 code now [11:52] Ubit Umarov: really not in the mood to let viewers to decide that opensim 0.8 is now dead [11:53] Ubit Umarov: even older 0.9 [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... The changes to the osslEnable.ini file means some changes will be needed to the OS wiki pages. [11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am using an updated FS in SL, have not noticed any improvement over  OS [11:53] Ubit Umarov: major is BoM [11:53] Ubit Umarov: but will take some time to "creators" to use it [11:54] Bill Blight: BOM and Animesh since 6.02+ [11:54] Ubit Umarov: yes animesh [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Good. I'm on 6.0.2 [11:54] Kayaker Magic: Andrew: I submitted a mantis about which functions were different in the code vs the osslEnable vs the wiki. [11:54] Bill Blight: new estate panels [11:54] Ubit Umarov: selby there are two things at you back that do move [11:54] Ubit Umarov: those 2 guards.. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: that bill tells are not guards [11:55] Bill Blight: LOL [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well 3 things now [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Bouncers? :) [11:55] Ubit Umarov: so you need fs 6.0.2 to see that [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well here.. useless at kitely [11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I noticed the changed estate panel -- but saw no improvement [11:57] Ubit Umarov: yeah here also [11:57] Ubit Umarov: just did add some info on the bans [11:57] Bill Blight: when they were banned, and who banned them [11:58] Ubit Umarov: well here with a 6.3 test viewer or openstorm :) [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see the additional information in the estate panel under 6.0.2 [11:59] Bill Blight: not added to 6.02 [11:59] Ubit Umarov: fs 6.0 still does not have that new UI [11:59] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: My point is that I only care about changes if they affect what I do. These did not -- I maybe deal with banning people once a year or so. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: well guess not many changes will hit kitely while it stays on 0.8x [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: 6.0.2 is still the latest version of FS available for Linux. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: in fact fear you will not be able to update viewers also [12:00] Ubit Umarov: if i "lose" the fight with FS and others [12:01] Ubit Umarov: to mk them keep suporting a extended range of opensim (and forks) versions [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:03] Ubit Umarov: but we will also end up having trouble keeping hacks to suport 0.8 and older versions [12:03] Ubit Umarov: i actually have pressure to kill it :p [12:03] Ubit Umarov: ie no HG etc.. [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: It is just past the top of the hour. No sign of Gavin so Kayaker's questions will have to wait for another week. [12:03] Ubit Umarov: what questions where those? [12:04] Ubit Umarov: bill is now a viewer dev also [12:04] Kayaker Magic: About why YEngine doesn't run on ARM and XEngine does. [12:04] Ubit Umarov laughts like crazy [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, About YEngine on an ARM based processor. [12:04] Ubit Umarov: ohh thats not viewer question [12:04] Kayaker Magic: Gavin implied he did something to get XEngine to work, I'd like to switch to YEngine [12:04] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, I'll test it better and report back next week. [12:04] Ubit Umarov: xengined did work fine [12:05] Ubit Umarov: Y uses dynamic functions [12:05] Ubit Umarov: mb the issue is on that [12:05] Ubit Umarov: but arm are linux/mono [12:05] Ubit Umarov: should work fine [12:05] Ubit Umarov: so.. ive no idea [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Any known issues with the latest mono? [12:06] Bill Blight: None I am aware of, using it on many regions [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Latest is up to 6.4.0 according to their download page. [12:07] Ubit Umarov: gezz [12:07] Ubit Umarov: they are still changing that fast [12:07] Kayaker Magic: I'm building with mono 6.3 or higher, no problems. [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: They seem to have been bumping version numbers quite a lot. I don't even think I remember the 5 series [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I just checked and I see I have 6.4.0 on my machine. [12:09] Bill Blight: don't blink or you will miss Mono 8 ... LOL [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: At the rate they are going that could happen. [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything more for today or shall we wrap things up for this week? [12:10] Kayaker Magic: it's a wrap! [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: saran? ;) [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, that will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I just checked and I do have one machine that has mono 5.12 on it. [12:12] Bill Blight: ugg [12:12] Bill Blight: that is the evil version I think [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Another evil version? [12:13] Bill Blight: I think it was 5.12 I had a ton of issues with [12:13] Ubit Umarov: well we do compile things on 5.12 [12:13] Ubit Umarov: and release will be comp on 5.12 [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... odd. I just did a yum update on that remote machine and now it reports mono 6.4.0 but it didn't update any mono packages. [12:14] Ubit Umarov: i had to totally remove mono on one update [12:14] Ubit Umarov: the automatic did a mess [12:15] Ubit Umarov: don't remember the details [12:15] Ubit Umarov: it was working fine for bill, not for me.. hmm something [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Good to know. I will rebuild the OS on that remote machine using 6.4 and update the grid. [12:17] Bill Blight: I did have an upgrade issue on a different machine and had to purge and re-install the 6 version