Chat log from the meeting on 2010-05-11

[09:50] Melanie Milland is Online

[09:52] WhiteStar Magic is Online

[09:52] Sigmundur Jonsson: hello

[09:52] Entering god mode, level 255

[09:53] WhiteStar Magic: Hey Neb

[09:53] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[09:56] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online

[09:56] WhiteStar Magic: hey Frank

[09:56] Frank Northmead: Hello WhiteStar

[09:57] WhiteStar Magic: Migrated 48 regions to their own DB's teh other day.. went perfect, 3 days now, no instance restarts needed or occured withteh automated system

[09:57] Frank Northmead: Cool beans!

[09:57] WhiteStar Magic: timeout errors gone, response fast and clean... all good

[09:57] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[09:58] Nebadon Izumi: we tweaked the user server a bit this morning

[09:58] Nebadon Izumi: also should effect our message server

[09:58] WhiteStar Magic: Looking at the DB Tables now, considering using soem indexing

[09:58] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully will run better

[09:58] Frank Northmead: I am running 100 or so regions on a quad core with 16 GB ram. All light builds, but running 0.7 and no real issues. Very happy.

[09:58] WhiteStar Magic: Msg Server is nasty !

[09:58] Frank Northmead: Msg Server goes away - dont' bother.

[09:59] WhiteStar Magic: I wish msg server would be better behaved and tell peopel nicely when they are online

[09:59] WhiteStar Magic: Well, I'm pretty sure 3RG will go Simian Grid

[09:59] Warin Cascabel is Offline

[09:59] Nebadon Izumi: my Friends list looks pretty good here at the moment

[09:59] Nebadon Izumi: i see like 11 people online in my list right now

[10:00] UUID Speaker: Sigmundur Jonsson: bbb5811a-3191-44f6-7355-a0eed0e4e122

[10:00] Warin Cascabel is Online

[10:00] WhiteStar Magic: 2 came online since I been, they show

[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[10:00] WhiteStar Magic: 2 pre-existing my login show as online

[10:00] Frank Northmead: Friends list has issues in 0.7 - shows "loading" forever.

[10:00] Akira Sonoda: Good evening everybody !

[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: that sucks

[10:00] Nebadon Izumi: hello Warin

[10:00] Warin Cascabel: Howdy, all.

[10:00] WhiteStar Magic: seems that I was told WHO was online when I arrived

[10:00] WhiteStar Magic: so how teh heck ??

[10:01] WhiteStar Magic: gotta patch neb ??

[10:01] Frank Northmead: hello Warin

[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: all we did this morning was increase the sql connections in a file

[10:01] WhiteStar Magic: Heya Warin !

[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: then recompiled it

[10:01] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Nebadon, Frank, WhiteStar

[10:01] WhiteStar Magic: sql connections in a file ??

[10:02] WhiteStar Magic: my.ini ??

[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: /OpenSim/Data/MySQL/MySQLUserData.cs

[10:02] WhiteStar Magic: Ohhh

[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: m_maxConnections = 10;

[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: to 100

[10:02] Frank Northmead: Hello Akira, coudl you rebake please, you re kind of all invisible (except your clothes) for me.

[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: or sorry we went with 50

[10:02] Nebadon Izumi: but

[10:03] WhiteStar Magic: so you compiled a new binary then ?

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: you also need to set pooling=false; in your mysql connection string

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: in the user server config

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: the xml

[10:03] UUID Speaker: Daniel Twig: 6f9366b6-6b10-88c8-219b-39c950150883

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya it requires you recompile it

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: but honestly Whitestar

[10:03] Warin Cascabel: Nebadon: I don't see an office hours announcement in #osgrid or #opensim, do you want me to make one?

[10:03] Akira Sonoda: sure Frank!

[10:03] WhiteStar Magic: That whole pooling thing has been bugging me a bit. so pooling=false on grid server ?

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: unless you have like 100 people online

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt its an issue

[10:03] Nebadon Izumi: no we did that for user server

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on what version your running too

[10:04] Frank Northmead: I also have had luck turning off pooling in the mySql connection string "pooling=false"

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: we are a URM

[10:04] WhiteStar Magic: I can have 30 online and the arriving avi never get's updated as to who is online

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: hmm thats wierd

[10:04] WhiteStar Magic: URM here too

[10:04] WhiteStar Magic: now if I login after you, you see me show up in list

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: your online for me

[10:05] WhiteStar Magic: but if I am inowlrd when you come on, yu won;t know I am online

[10:05] Armin Weatherwax: Hi :)

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya its far from perfect

[10:05] Frank Northmead: Hello Amin and Penny

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: the URM method is not very good

[10:05] Snoopy Pfeffer is Offline

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: we really need to get beyond it

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: better presence services

[10:05] WhiteStar Magic: so 0.7 primises

[10:05] WhiteStar Magic: promises

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya simiangrid too im sure

[10:06] Penny Lane: Hi Armin :-)

[10:06] WhiteStar Magic: are you guys gonna make this connections fix avial in Post-Fixes >

[10:06] WhiteStar Magic: ??

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: nah because 10 is fine for most people

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: 50+ is really excessive for small grids

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: its a tweakable setting

[10:06] Sigmundur Jonsson: hmm i can't connnect to my region

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: always has been

[10:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks

[10:07] Akira Sonoda: hi Justin

[10:07] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Justin

[10:07] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: this method has totally been abandoned in anything past .7

[10:07] WhiteStar Magic: I have 40 connection on URM server at this time

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: well ours was set for 10

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: until today

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: it was just starting to be an issue really

[10:08] WhiteStar Magic: brb relog

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: i think for most grids its probably fine

[10:08] WhiteStar Magic: brb relog

[10:08] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (RC1) 0a9c98e: 2010-04-30 20:18:08 +0100 (Unix/Mono)

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: kk

[10:08] WhiteStar Magic is Offline

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: nice mass log in there

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:08] Penny Lane: Hi Neb

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: hello Penny and Justin

[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi akira. nice cloacking

[10:08] WhiteStar Magic is Online

[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi all

[10:09] Penny Lane: Hi Rich :-)

[10:09] Richardus Raymaker: hi penny

[10:09] Akira Sonoda: hi rich

[10:09] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, you use mono 2.6.4 right ? its good ? any problems ?

[10:09] WhiteStar Magic: Ahhh... logged in and noone shows as online

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes we are using it here infact

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: what viewer Whitestar?

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i wonder if its viewer related maybe

[10:09] WhiteStar Magic: Imprudence B-4 with KDU

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: im using Hippo

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: i always see people online

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: im on hippo 0.6.2 now imprudence crash here to many times on WP

[10:10] Frank Northmead: I am seeing issues qwith latest Imprudeence on my grid - for friends online

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: interesting Frank

[10:10] Warin Cascabel: I'm showing seven people on my friends list as logged in, with Imprudence.

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: could be a viewer bug

[10:10] Akira Sonoda: hippo 0.5.2 all online

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: is it an older Imprudence Warin?

[10:10] Frank Northmead: I am running hippo and seeing all my friends

[10:10] WhiteStar Magic: I only get updated when they login after me

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: i hear people complain the dont see me online

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: do you have Hippo installed?

[10:11] Warin Cascabel: 1.3.0 beta 1, Nebadon.

[10:11] WhiteStar Magic: presence does not advise when you login as to who on your list is actually online

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: might give it a shot see if it has same behavior

[10:11] UUID Speaker: Daniel Twig: 6f9366b6-6b10-88c8-219b-39c950150883

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: hello Strawberry

[10:11] Penny Lane: I'm still on Imp beta2, works 100% reliably here

[10:11] Strawberry Fride: hiya folks

[10:11] Frank Northmead is Online

[10:11] WhiteStar Magic: StrawBerry !!!

[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hi strawberry

[10:11] Richardus Raymaker: hi strawberry

[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: has anybody else seen linking problems with 0.6.9.rc2?

[10:12] Warin Cascabel: OK, I think I can confirm what WhiteStar is saying. I just logged in an alt, and it showed up in my list here, but it doesn't se mee as online.

[10:12] Tesira Luco is Online

[10:12] Warin Cascabel: s/se mee/see me/

[10:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin

[10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online

[10:12] Frank Northmead: Imprudence?

[10:12] WhiteStar Magic: see, snoopy justy logged in and I got notified

[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus

[10:13] WhiteStar Magic: but if I relog now, I won;t know she's here

[10:13] Will Boudreaux is Offline

[10:13] Richardus Raymaker: oh hi whitestar

[10:13] WhiteStar Magic: Hi Richardus

[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: but thats what i have with someone that use hippo whitestar. and i use then imprudence

[10:14] WhiteStar Magic: It's not a hugfe issue just one people love to complain about... till 0.7, we an wait

[10:14] Warin Cascabel: Logged my alt in again using Hippo, and it saw me online.

[10:14] Frank Northmead: I just logged in my wifes account and she showed up.

[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: he seeing me never(almost) online.

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: well i can say this mornings fix

[10:14] WhiteStar Magic: so you get notified who is on, with Hippo

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: might make friends work alot better

[10:14] WhiteStar Magic: Hmmmm'

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: because it not only effected the user server

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: but the message server

[10:15] Warin Cascabel: It's an old version of Hippo, though.

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: im on 0.6.3 hippo

[10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: ?

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: quite liking it

[10:15] Richardus Raymaker: no he's on hippo and says he dont see me online. im on imprudence then

[10:15] WhiteStar Magic: there is dosconection between user & message servers

[10:15] WhiteStar Magic: *disconnection....

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: ah Justin this morning we increase the mysql connections in OpenSim

[10:15] Richardus Raymaker: hi lisste sis

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: and we disabled pooling for mysql on our user server and message server

[10:15] Richardus Raymaker: little

[10:15] Little Sister: Hello, Richardus.

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: /OpenSim/Data/MySQL/MySQLUserData.cs

[10:16] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: m_maxConnections = 10;

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: to m_maxConnections = 50;

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: then we disabled pooling in the user server configuration mysql connection string

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: we were getting out of thread messages

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: ive not seen them again since the changes

[10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: interesting

[10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: thanks for the info

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: we are still on the URM

[10:17] Richardus Raymaker: wich mono ?

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: it wont effect Robust grids

[10:17] Penny Lane: Is the max a hard compiled-in limit?

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: full robust

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: yes in the older User server it is

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: not on the newer Robust

[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure why turning off connection pooling would help. Perhaps the implementation is still buggy

[10:18] Penny Lane: Thanks Neb

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: hang on let me quote what melanie said on our dev channel

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: apparantly

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: MySQLSuperManger can not use pooling

[10:19] Penny Lane: Hi McCabe :-)

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: so we had a minor conflict

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: it was eventually tapping out the pool i guess

[10:19] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy there! :)

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: but the good news is the user server is no longer complaining about threads

[10:19] WhiteStar Magic: interesting in my "UserServer_Config.xml" it has pooling=true; in teh connection string, I know I did not add that there

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: it might be in the newer examples

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid has some aincent files

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:20] WhiteStar Magic: not in my "MessagingServer_Config.xml" though

[10:20] Penny Lane notes that "TP to " would be useful functionality

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: I only set pooling false in the user config

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: but

[10:21] Warin Cascabel is Online

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: you will see when you edit the hard coded max connections

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: message server will open 50 connections when you start it too

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: so we'll see how that goes, we might find ourselves increasing that number again in the future

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully though things improve for a bit

[10:22] WhiteStar Magic: niot in my INI files either,

[10:23] Justin Clark-Casey wonders why there are people standing on the roof of this building

[10:23] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia

[10:23] Sigmundur Jonsson: hello

[10:23] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia

[10:23] Josmas Flores: hi guys

[10:23] Frank Northmead: Hello Dahlia

[10:23] Dahlia Trimble: I couldnt TP here for some reason :/

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: wierd

[10:23] Richardus Raymaker: it just a nice place to stay justiin. my favorite spot to :)

[10:24] Penny Lane: JCC: It's tradition :-)

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: several tries dahlia??or just once?

[10:24] Dahlia Trimble: 3-4 trues

[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: wierd :)

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: strange

[10:24] Dahlia Trimble: *tries

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: well glad you made it anyway

[10:24] Snoopy Pfeffer is Offline

[10:24] Dahlia Trimble: :)

[10:24] Warin Cascabel: Took me several tries to log back in after my browser crashed.

[10:24] Warin Cascabel: Er, viewer.

[10:24] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: ah probably load related maybe

[10:25] Sigmundur Jonsson: hey when i got my region on the grid, can i still log into it directly?

[10:25] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online

[10:25] Penny Lane wonders why people are not standing in this room with their feet on the ceiling instead. ;-)

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: console says 23 agents connected at the moment

[10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be far more entertaining

[10:25] Dahlia Trimble: because the viewer assumes people stand this way

[10:25] WhiteStar Magic: @ Penny, would be a good anim to have, Walk Upside Down

[10:25] Warin Cascabel: Yes, Sigmundur.

[10:26] Penny Lane: Hehe

[10:26] Sigmundur Jonsson: i always get login failed right away

[10:26] Dave Coyle is Online

[10:26] Sigmundur Jonsson: i don't see anything in the console even

[10:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmm, good point. I was thinking some kind of flight assist but I guess there's no way to animate true upsidedowness...?

[10:26] Dahlia Trimble: I think I've tried rotating the user agent before but the viewer displays it upright

[10:26] Warin Cascabel: Hmm.

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: hmm you could maybe with pose balls

[10:27] Sigmundur Jonsson: i can't connect to my region using the grid, either

[10:27] WhiteStar Magic: unless they were attached to an object which could be flipped

[10:27] Sharon Northmead: sit on a prim, with the prim rotated

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: would that restrict you to sitting upside-down?

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: chairs on the ceiling would be pretty cool though :-)

[10:27] Sharon Northmead: no, you can walk while sitting - lol

[10:27] Penny Lane: Dahlia/JCC: that's actually troubling, the fact that it's built-in to the viewers. Means we can't (say) walk on ceiling unless we first get rid of wired-in default behiour.

[10:27] WhiteStar Magic: if attached to spine, an AO would not know

[10:28] WhiteStar Magic: poseball might be an issue

[10:28] WhiteStar Magic: Hmmm, Anti-Grav Boots are needed

[10:28] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think gravity is constrained to down, I thought it was a 3D force vector

[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: viewers do make lots of environmental assumptions

[10:28] Dahlia Trimble: in the code at least

[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: heh

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya upside down has never been real good in SL

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: not in cars or even air vehicles

[10:29] Warin Cascabel: Well, that didn't work.

[10:29] Richardus Raymaker: so, no space trips for a while then

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i always wanted to make a loop in SL or OSG

[10:29] McCabe Maxsted nods. It'd be nice if sims let us know more custom info

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: ive not been able to so far

[10:29] Dahlia Trimble: or... we all really are upside down, we just dont know it

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol Warin

[10:29] WhiteStar Magic: / me calling ambulance for Warin

[10:29] Strawberry Fride: opensimulator - the grid for use down under - or dancing on the ceiling...

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: rofl

[10:29] McCabe Maxsted: hhee

[10:29] WhiteStar Magic: ROFLOL

[10:29] Bartholomew Kleiber: hi

[10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: mccabe: yes

[10:29] WhiteStar Magic: OUCH

[10:29] Penny Lane: Dahlia: hehe

[10:30] WhiteStar Magic: I'm laughing so hard

[10:30] Warin Cascabel is Online

[10:30] Richardus Raymaker: can give funny sims, if you can build all upside down

[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ping

[10:30] WhiteStar Magic: pong

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: multiple logins i think

[10:30] Warin Cascabel: Crashtastic.

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: warin and sylvia came in at same time

[10:30] McCabe Maxsted: osSimRotate would be a cool effect too

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: bogged us down a bit

[10:31] WhiteStar Magic: LOL @ McCabe

[10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder when mono will implement thread prioritization. I'm sure that would help

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: heh good question

[10:31] WhiteStar Magic: partr of teh new LightShare ? Invert Physics switch ?

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: better GC too, so it doesnt go right to the edge before recovering

[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: that sounds like a very good option. but i want GC first

[10:32] Penny Lane: The Vertical Sim in SL was fun, walking up walls and along ceilings (not sure if it's still there). But sad too, in that it showed how much was hardwired in, and had to be overcome.

[10:32] Richardus Raymaker: hi sylvia

[10:32] Frank Northmead: Is Lightshare implimented in any clients yets?

[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: yes I saw that, very impressive

[10:32] Akira Sonoda: Hello Sister :-)

[10:32] Dahlia Trimble: I think I remember that sim

[10:32] Sylvia Sonoda: :)

[10:33] Penny Lane: JCC: Opensim hopefully won't have such hardwiring though, in due course.

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: in due course. Then a lot it down to the viewers

[10:33] Dahlia Trimble: OpenSim has pluggable physics engines

[10:33] Penny Lane: Yeah. Firking viewers, they tie us to LL's world. We need our own.

[10:33] Frank Northmead: Naali is coming

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: we need open standards ultimately

[10:33] Penny Lane nods

[10:34] Akira Sonoda nods to Justin

[10:34] Sigmundur Jonsson: hey for some reason my region can't authenticate

[10:34] Bartholomew Kleiber: yup

[10:34] Sigmundur Jonsson: how do i fix this?

[10:34] McCabe Maxsted: frank: we have it in imprudence but it hasn't ben released yet.... still needs some work

[10:35] Frank Northmead: McCabe, Imprudence has some issues with friends online in 0.7

[10:35] McCabe Maxsted: oh yeah? What sorts of issues?

[10:35] Sylvia Sonoda: firefox also stayd compettible with IE even when microsoft added not standard things. you win by being compettible with everybody.

[10:36] Frank Northmead: donj't remember teh details, but displays different than hippo. Mayb displays none?

[10:36] Frank Northmead: I can test later.

[10:36] McCabe Maxsted hasn't been on a 0.7 sim yet, I don't think. I've noticed a lot of issues with not seeing friends online in 0.6.9 already though

[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: sylvia: but at least there was a base of reasonable published standardization

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: i will have to test it on the other grids, danger grid and onikenkon

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: those are both pretty current 0.7 versions

[10:37] Sylvia Sonoda: yes so best create a standard and while SL is a live stay compettible anyway. in the end SL will die anyway and then the standard remians :)

[10:37] WhiteStar Magic: @ McCabe, apparently people see online friends when they login with Hippo... I don;t have Hippo to test

[10:38] Sylvia Sonoda: I am on hippo 0.5 and friendslist seems to be working ok

[10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: sylvia: SL's client-server protocol is pretty idiosyncratic - staying compatible would tie you in to a massive amoutn of clunkiness

[10:38] McCabe Maxsted makes a note to login to onikenkon later today to test this

[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: whitestar, i have the opposite

[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya its starting to sound like certain versions of imprudence may be the issue

[10:38] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's certainly true that SL is where the mindshare is. such that it is

[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: the newer betas

[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: someone with hippo dont see me on imprudence.

[10:39] McCabe Maxsted nods. 1.3 betas are based on 1.23, whereas 1.2.2 and hippo 0.5 are based on 1.22

[10:39] Sylvia Sonoda: look at the numbers and be realistic. we(opensim) are still way too small to have a big mouth. First we stay compettible so we can draw everybody out of sl. then in a year or so we maybe can leave sl compettebilty alone

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: i am on 0.6.3 myself

[10:40] Dahlia Trimble: does the friends list work when you log in to the same region with the same account with another viewer?

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: which is 1.23.5

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: no problems here that i can tell

[10:40] Richardus Raymaker: 1 year later there's maby betetr osgrid viewers to imprudence naali

[10:40] Sylvia Sonoda: Nebadon, do you play inworld a lot?

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: here on osgrid?

[10:40] Sylvia Sonoda: yes

[10:41] Frank Northmead: ?

[10:41] McCabe Maxsted: it will be interesting to see where everyone is a year from now :) I'm excited for it

[10:41] Penny Lane: Sylvia: we're not here to "compete" with SL. It's an open source project --- the "goal", if any, is to be free, and have fun.

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: sure, i am always here

[10:41] Sylvia Sonoda: the new hippo has several issues if I must belive people in lbsa. I stopped using it as it gave land deviding and sell/buy of land issues

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: thats 0.6.2

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: in 0.6.3 that is fixed

[10:41] Sylvia Sonoda: the old hippo is still the best for me

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i had issues with 0.6.2 also

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: coiuldnt buy or sell land

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: could not set voice settings

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: but that all seems fixed now

[10:42] Strawberry Fride: oh good to know

[10:42] Dahlia Trimble: im still useng the prior hippo, havent updated yet

[10:42] McCabe Maxsted is in the process of uploading a new windows nightly for Imprudence... should fix the crashes people have been seeing on lbsa and wright

[10:42] Strawberry Fride: I tried upgrading to 0.6.3 but crashed hard

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: i would un-install old hippos

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: do not try to upgrade

[10:42] Strawberry Fride: since then have avoided the upgrade dialog

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: that never goes well

[10:42] Strawberry Fride: cool - will try that

[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: or install the new hippo in new directory and keep old one

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i tried installing hippo 0.5.1 and 0.6.2 to differnt folders

[10:43] Dahlia Trimble: in fact Um using 0.5.1 right now

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: whta a disaster that was

[10:43] Sylvia Sonoda: also I am a bit qworried as there are rumors the new hippo has things in that a server can change the viewer looks and there are no good documentationtions about the changes

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: dont do that

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: also i hear that you should make sure 100%

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: that none of your viewers share caches

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: this can corrupt things

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: so make sure 100% none of your viewers even differnt versions of the same viewer

[10:44] Penny Lane: I haven't had a crash on Imprudence on Linux for months, ever since the first 1.3.0.* merge test came out. Rock solid, with the sole exception of Neb's videos from hell

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: ever share their caches

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: very bad

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, I should really start using imprudence - I'm still on the stock linden viewers atm

[10:44] Richardus Raymaker: dont have that experience nebadon

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: its possible none of your viewers are sharing caches

[10:44] Richardus Raymaker: bad justin :P

[10:45] Hiro Protagonist: Penny, are the limitations on working with larger prims (>10m in any dimension) removed from improdunce yet?

[10:45] Dahlia Trimble: I havent tried imprudence lately, I was having some problems with stuff not rezzing after a teleport before

[10:45] Hiro Protagonist: *imprudence

[10:45] Akira Sonoda: lol different experience here with imprudence ... one quick movement and the thingie crashes ...

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: could be drivers

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: maybe KDU vs openjpeg

[10:45] Penny Lane: Until caches are standardized (which won't be for AGES), it's very bad news to share cache between viewers.

[10:45] Dahlia Trimble: I should try the latest

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: make sure you drop in the LL kdu dll file

[10:45] Richardus Raymaker: on WP there's some bug the are working on. WP crash imprudence

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: to avoid instacrashes

[10:45] Akira Sonoda: probably ... the nvidia drivers are bad both on mac and win...

[10:45] McCabe Maxsted: yeah, always clear your cache when you install an update to a viewer

[10:45] Richardus Raymaker: did nt worked with 1.3 nebadon

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: its not full proof

[10:46] Richardus Raymaker: i ue linux

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: but it can increase your odds of betterness

[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: Will we ever see cache sharing? It's not as if we see it between browsers.

[10:46] WhiteStar Magic: I use both Imprudence & Cool Viewer. IMprudence for the most part is as stable as CV as long as it has teh KDU Decoder.

[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: leaves you vulnerable to somebody else's viewer causing yours unexplained problems

[10:46] Penny Lane: JCC: we'll never see shareable caches while it's built-in to viewers, methinks. It needs external caching, Squid-like.

[10:47] WhiteStar Magic: Either with or without THHP Textuyres on, although faster with HTTP Textures on

[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: penny: that's a good point.

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think most of the newer viewers all set thier own caches anyway

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: but the problem is mostly when you try to run same viewers but differnt versions

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: on the same machine

[10:47] Penny Lane: I'm surprised that nobody's made a libomv-based caching proxy, Squid-like but for SLUDP.

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: like 3 or 4 differnt versions of imprudence

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: dont have them all share the same cache

[10:47] WhiteStar Magic: ouch, that could hurt

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: you run the risk of corrupting inventory

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: things going wierd on you

[10:48] Dahlia Trimble: Peny, the LLUDP texture protocol is very complex

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: and when you upgrade your viewer

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: always clear the cache

[10:49] Penny Lane: Dahlia: complexity is no problem, just give it to Hurli to write.

[10:49] UUID Speaker: Paul Bogen: e2f5028a-5ffb-32a2-a7ec-bb1037ebf3f1

[10:49] Dahlia Trimble: lol

[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, i dont see problems with sharing. never got problems with that.. so what are the effects then.

[10:49] Justin Clark-Casey: but what if Hurli gets run over by a bus?

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus, its not gaurenteed your going to have problems

[10:49] McCabe Maxsted: hehe

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: these are just things you can do to avoid them

[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: its to painfull to configure all again for new viewer

[10:49] Dahlia Trimble: we gather the remaining cells and clone him

[10:50] Bartholomew Kleiber: he works for intel, hei ist protected

[10:50] Penny Lane: That's too aweful to contemplate. Let's ban buses.

[10:50] Hiro Protagonist: lol Dahlia

[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: we're better off doing that now....

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: ive lost enough inventory to pay attention to these things

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:50] Hiro Protagonist: hey, we could get multiples on the job at once if we just go head and clone him now

[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but they might fight each other

[10:50] Penny Lane: lol

[10:50] Bartholomew Kleiber: lool

[10:50] Strawberry Fride: save aar hurlicane?

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:50] Hiro Protagonist: LOL

[10:51] WhiteStar Magic: lol

[10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: coff

[10:51] Edie Stewart is Online

[10:51] McCabe Maxsted: Hiro: imprudence automatically changes the prim limits while on opensim. Right now we default assume a 256m max, but it'd be nice if grids told us what max they like to use instead ;)

[10:51] Bartholomew Kleiber: @straberry: nice idea

[10:51] WhiteStar Magic: JCC has there been any changes to IAR recently to RC2 ?

[10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: McCabe: how do you detect that you're on opensim?

[10:51] Justin Clark-Casey: whitestar: no, though rc2 appears to have a linking bug even though I merged in the fixes

[10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I must have fscked up the merge somehow, sigh

[10:52] Strawberry Fride: JCC - wil test RC2 if you need comfirmation on that bug...

[10:52] Hiro Protagonist: McCabe: the region actually has per-region size limits on prims - if the client just doesnt bother abbout it, region-local primsize limits will be enforced

[10:52] Dahlia Trimble: could probably make a prim size limit Capability

[10:52] McCabe Maxsted: based on what grid you login to

[10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: mccabe: ah, nasty :-)

[10:52] WhiteStar Magic: new iar quirk "\" or "\My Inventory" is not recognized, but \Objects is

[10:52] McCabe Maxsted: that wouldn't work in the client though, hiro. You'd see the prim stretch to a limit then "snap" back

[10:52] Dahlia Trimble: it's region specific now

[10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: strawberry: that would be very helpful

[10:53] McCabe Maxsted: yeah, it'd be much nicer to have a cap

[10:53] Richardus Raymaker: btw the iar idea that go around in mailing. sound intressting and good

[10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: mccabe: OpenSim really does need to be able to identify itself

[10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: which one in particular?

[10:53] Justin Clark-Casey: man, bad chat lagging

[10:53] Penny Lane: Just define caps for the things you want to query, and implement them in Opensim. If SL says "Huh?", that's fine.

[10:53] Richardus Raymaker: to make IAR more proof against copy not owned objetcs

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya the region is probably swapping a bit

[10:53] Frank Northmead: we are up to 25

[10:54] Renegade Netizen: hi all i just tp from isbl plza.. how come i become naked here :)

[10:54] Renegade Netizen: in inventory my clothes are shown as worn

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i killed the sandbox see if that helps at all

[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: whitestar: you really need to use forward slash, not back

[10:54] Dahlia Trimble: how about the region version string? could that identify it?

[10:54] Richardus Raymaker: justin, this one Re: [Opensim-users] Save IAR function

[10:54] McCabe Maxsted: a cap for even little things like chat distance

[10:54] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (RC1) 0a9c98e: 2010-04-30 20:18:08 +0100 (Unix/Mono)

[10:54] UUID Speaker: Paul Bogen: e2f5028a-5ffb-32a2-a7ec-bb1037ebf3f1

[10:55] Hiro Protagonist: McCabe: it has always worked for hippo, provided the spinners are sufficiently adjusted in their limits

[10:55] Dahlia Trimble: like right now Hippo sees this: "OpenSim 0.6.9 (RC1) 0a9c98e: 2010-04-30 20:18:08 +0100 (Unix/Mono)"

[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I think that has long seen dropped out of my inbox window

[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: mccabe: yeah, a general info cap might be the way to go

[10:55] Sylvia Sonoda: that is an opensim hidden feature Renegade

[10:55] McCabe Maxsted: we tried that originally dahlia, but different grids change it

[10:55] Penny Lane: Renegade: the default region setting here is Naturist.

[10:55] McCabe Maxsted: well, that's just a way of changing the hardcoded limit, hiro

[10:55] Frank Northmead: ?

[10:55] McCabe Maxsted: not a real solution

[10:55] Renegade Netizen: you guys serious?

[10:56] Hiro Protagonist: True McCabe, but there are 'unlimited' limits, and there are 'practical' limits

[10:56] Sylvia Sonoda: nope Renegade

[10:56] Hiro Protagonist: 256m is patently impractical because I typically build on a very large scale

[10:56] Strawberry Fride: viewer wishlist - would love to have a switch somewhere on a client for a kid-friendly install, pre-world underwear and removing the "adult" options from menus...

[10:56] Penny Lane: Renegade: no, but it would be :P

[10:56] Sylvia Sonoda: we try to be not serious otherwise we might start crying

[10:56] Dahlia Trimble: well I think we can add extra capabilities without worrying much about clashing with future LL changes if we choose good names

[10:56] Penny Lane: could* be

[10:56] Strawberry Fride: pre-worn even

[10:56] Hiro Protagonist: it doesnt need to be complicated, it jsut needs to not interfere with building large

[10:57] McCabe Maxsted nods. Yeah. It's frustrating all the limits in the viewer we assume because we don't really know what a particular sim's actual limits are

[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: man, this having to earn money thing is a real downer on working on general opensim features

[10:57] Penny Lane: Dahlia: yup, not going to run out of unique caps names any time soon :-)

[10:57] Renegade Netizen: gosh

[10:57] Justin Clark-Casey: mccabe: yeah, we need a cap for that

[10:57] Sylvia Sonoda: lol Rene and welcome to OSgrid