Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-17

[10:09] Orion Hax: Mysql was not made for that kind of blob storage [10:09] kidd piko: i hear you [10:09] kidd piko: S3 is the place for assets [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone [10:10] Orion Hax: problem is scale and cost [10:10] Orion Hax: hi neb [10:10] Monk Zymurgy: hi nebadon [10:10] kidd piko: hey Neb [10:10] Nebadon Izumi: hows everyone doin [10:10] Monk Zymurgy: well thanks [10:10] Fly Man: Well, good :) [10:10]  kidd piko: doing well here [10:10]  kidd piko: hiya Fly Man [10:10]  Fly Man: Morning or Evening for the Europeans :) [10:11] Orion Hax: hi flyman [10:11] Monk Zymurgy: Evening for me :) hi flyman [10:12]  Orion Hax: another hour of turning the screws to the poor ole Wp server [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: we probably have some timing issues again this week [10:12]  Nebadon Izumi: with Daylight savings etc.. [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: so im sure people will be late etc.. [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: might go long again today, but thats ok [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i wonder how long this sim has been running for [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: let me check [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: wow 11 hours [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: thats awesome [10:13]  Fly Man: Nice :) [10:13] Monk Zymurgy: nice :) [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: ive been cleaning up here alot [10:13]  Nebadon Izumi: making changes [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: guess that might have helped a little [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: plus all these updates [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant even keep up [10:14]  Orion Hax: like at work the network time is always the right time, so make everything according to grid time and the rest will sort itself out [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: heads spinning [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: Fly Man i ordred some new computer parts last night [10:14]  Fly Man: Nice [10:14]  Nebadon Izumi: new motherboard, a Q9400 CPU [10:14]  Fly Man: So you can fix itnow ;) [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: 8gb ram [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: 1tb disc [10:14] Nebadon Izumi: and new dvd burner [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: gonna swap the guts of my current machine [10:15] Fly Man: Ahh, poor machine ... [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: should be here tommorow [10:15] Fly Man: Why didn't you buy a box as well [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: but also going to retire 3 other machines [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: and move all my opensim to antoehr machine i have [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: a p4 2.6 [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: then have 2 workstations [10:15] Orion Hax: 1TB ram now that would be impressive [10:15] Nebadon Izumi: and 1 server [10:16] Fly Man: Well, you know what I always said ... [10:16] Fly Man: Make those old boxes region boxes with Ubuntu or something [10:16] Fly Man: then they'll be activly used ... [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya im trying to cut down power bills a bit [10:17] Orion Hax: im just waiting to retire the 500mhz unix monster at work [10:17] Nebadon Izumi: retiring the dual p3 [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: and a celeron box [10:17] Fly Man: Ghehe ;) [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: and a Via Samual 700mhz chip [10:17]  Fly Man: Power issues then ;) [10:17] Fly Man uses solar power to power some of his machines [10:17] Fly Man: That works nicely :) [10:17]  Kevin Paisley: hallo! [10:17]  Orion Hax: and by retire i mean an oxy/act tourch [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: ya if i owned this place id consider that [10:17]  Nebadon Izumi: as well as wind [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: soon as i buy a house [10:18]  Nebadon Izumi: hello kevin [10:18]  Kevin Paisley: heya [10:18]  kidd piko: hey Kevin [10:19]  Fly Man: Hmm, I'm on watch duty this night ... [10:19]  Fly Man: so that might be fun ... [10:19]  Nebadon Izumi: whats that require you do Fly Man? [10:19]  Monk Zymurgy: hi kevin [10:20]  Ideia Boa: hey all [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Ideia [10:20]  Fly Man: It requires me to be at home [10:20]  kidd piko: hiya Ideia [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: bummer :P [10:20]  Fly Man: and pick up phone when needed [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ah [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [10:20]  Monk Zymurgy: hi ideia [10:20]  Nebadon Izumi: i remember those days [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything cool they have been working on in OpenSIM recently [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: i must admit im still sorta playing catchup [10:21] Nebadon Izumi: havent had a whole lot of time to be creative [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: except the changes i made here at the conference center [10:22] Fly Man: A riot broke out in NYC during the auditions for America's Next Top Model, resulting in injuries and arrests. [10:22] Nebadon Izumi: heh [10:22] Fly Man: See, that's why Models need security ;) [10:22]  Monk Zymurgy: i have been making a cannonball game..using physics (apply impulse)..fun [10:22]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:22]  Orion Hax: no see thats why they need to ban that show [10:22]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:22]  Fly Man: Hahaha [10:23]  Fly Man: And Piko, I only have the close ppl in here :) [10:23] Nebadon Izumi: once i get my hardware settled i plan on jumping back into some serious building here on the grid [10:23] Fly Man: No offense [10:24] kidd piko: ohhh, so I have to leave? [10:24] Nebadon Izumi: hehe no [10:24]  Fly Man: Ghehe, no :) [10:24]  Fly Man: But you offered friendship [10:24]  Fly Man: that's what I meant [10:25]  kidd piko: ahh, ok. i hear you [10:25]  Fly Man: This is my working Avatar [10:25]  Fly Man: so this one only holds the neccesary ppl [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: so fly man sometime this week i need to install the OpenSIM Wi updates [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: have you done anything more? [10:25]  Fly Man: Neb, nope [10:25]  Fly Man: I've been working RL [10:25]  Nebadon Izumi: k ya [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: sorry i havent had time to look yet [10:26]  Fly Man: Haha [10:26]  Fly Man: That's ok [10:26]  Fly Man: I will try to make some bite work [10:26]  Monk Zymurgy: can you use the WI with a standalone region? [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: no [10:26]  Nebadon Izumi: though im sure it could be adapted [10:26]  Fly Man: but in the meantime, the stuff that's in there is working [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is Standalone doesnt handle regions the same as grid [10:26] Monk Zymurgy nods [10:26] Nebadon Izumi: infact there is no datbase storage of region data in standalone [10:27] Fly Man: Yes [10:27] Nebadon Izumi: its all in memory [10:27] Fly Man: And that's what it needs [10:27] Fly Man: But how hard is it to setup a simple grid machine [10:27] Fly Man: Use MySQL and get it to run :) [10:27]  Monk Zymurgy: oh..i been using standalone for 3 regions..it has a region db [10:27]  Nebadon Izumi: ya to be honest i have not loaded standalone in many monthws [10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: so i cant say im qualified to speak much about it [10:28]  Monk Zymurgy: its pretty great..now with hypergrid support..really great [10:28]  Orion Hax: how the asset server doing now [10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i also have not had time to explore hypergrid yet either [10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: im slippin [10:28]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:28]  Kevin Paisley: hmm music [10:29]  Monk Zymurgy: its all fun when you do :) [10:29] Kevin Paisley: ooh video works in linux [10:29] Kevin Paisley: not tried it yet since i reinstalled :P [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya video should work in linux [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: if all your ducks are lined up [10:29]  Nebadon Izumi: gotta have gstreamer setup proper [10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i have not had much luck with video in debian [10:30] Nebadon Izumi: but suse works great [10:30] Kevin Paisley: works fine in opensuse :) [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: i hear ubuntu works great too [10:30]  Monk Zymurgy: i get it fine..ubuntu [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:30]  Monk Zymurgy nods [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: these are coming from youtube [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: from my youtube page [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: i recorded all these with fraps [10:30]  Nebadon Izumi: from demoscene competitions [10:30]  Monk Zymurgy: awesome [10:31]  Nebadon Izumi: let me load up a timelapse video i shot last week [10:31]  Nebadon Izumi: i went hiking [10:31]  Nebadon Izumi: setup a camera [10:31]  paulie Flomar: Howdeh :) [10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hey paulie [10:32] kidd piko: hello Paulie [10:32] paulie Flomar: :) [10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: i shot this video down the street from my house [10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: place called Toms Thumb [10:32]  Nebadon Izumi: in the McDowell Mountain Range [10:32]  paulie Flomar: kewl [10:33]  Nebadon Izumi: its about 2 hours condensed into 7 minutes [10:33]  Nebadon Izumi: while i hiked around [10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: so how are your regions holding up Paulie? [10:34]  Nebadon Izumi: just a note to everyone Wrght Plaza has been up and running for almost 12 hours now [10:34]  paulie Flomar: Im movin em to a new quad-core machine. They run fine, but Im having to redo the network to get access to em. [10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: ah cool though [10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: i bought some new parts last night [10:35]  Monk Zymurgy: is there a record for uptime?;) [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: including a Q9400 CPU [10:35] paulie Flomar: my old loopback rules no longer apply. [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: well for Wright Plaza [10:35] paulie Flomar: nice [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: id say its probably just shy of 24 hours [10:35] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:35] Monk Zymurgy: :) [10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: before it barfs good usually [10:35]  paulie Flomar: been up 12? [10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: but under load like a meeting [10:35]  Nebadon Izumi: usually 2-3 hours is more likely [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: but the fact it was running 11 hours before we all arived [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: is pretty cool [10:36]  paulie Flomar: yah [10:36]  Monk Zymurgy: *nods [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: my personal regions [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: have ran for 12 days [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: witout restart [10:36]  Nebadon Izumi: thats my record [10:36]  paulie Flomar: speakin of my regions, can someone try and TP to Wolf Dogs Land and let me know if u succeed? [10:37]  Monk Zymurgy grins [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: ok here is another cool timelaps i did in Arizona [10:37]  Nebadon Izumi: but this one has bluescreening and layers [10:38]  paulie Flomar: Gotta run! Keep em flyi! [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: one of my friends made the audio [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: ok paulie talk soon man [10:38] Nebadon Izumi: good luck with new hardware [10:38] paulie Flomar: thx [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: hehe sim is slooow [10:39] Nebadon Izumi: its using 2.4gb ram [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt its gonna croak soon [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: but nice load test for sure [10:40] Warin Cascabel: Is there a meeting today? [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya but its probably gonna be pretty casual meeting today [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: nothing real formal [10:40] Warin Cascabel: OK [10:40]  Nebadon Izumi: im suprsied charles isnt here [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: he might have time still confused [10:40] Nebadon Izumi: the DST always messes up meetings for a couple weeks [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: everyone gets all confused [10:41] Warin Cascabel: Yeah. I know I have no idea when it's supposed to be. [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:41] monk-spikes-v2.5b: Script running [10:41] spike: Script running [10:41] spike: 20 [10:41] Nebadon Izumi: be interesting to see how long the sim holds up though [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: under this kind of intense pressure [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:42] Warin Cascabel: Weird, Alt-click is barely working for me here. [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: show stats on console reads 1618mb allocated to WP [10:42]  Nebadon Izumi: top says 2400 [10:42] Nebadon Izumi: we definatly need to work on that [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: only seems to show its head under big loads [10:43] Nebadon Izumi: seems to do pretty well with normal traffic levels though [10:44] Warin Cascabel: I've been having to restart less frequently lately. Whatever they're doing, I hope they keep it up. [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: nice [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: thats good news [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya it seems overall the osgrid plazas are requireing less restarts also [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: which has been nice [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: still logging in occasionally to no prims [10:44] Warin Cascabel: I know - there's usually not a gaping hole where Lbsa should be. [10:44] Nebadon Izumi: but crashes seem much further between than they have been in past weeks [10:44] Warin Cascabel: Yeah [10:46] kidd piko: what kind of network monitoring is used for the plazas?? nagios or something? [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: nah its pretty basic [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember what exactly its called [10:46] Nebadon Izumi: let me look [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: oh wait [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: which stats [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: there are 2 stats modules now [10:47] Nebadon Izumi: i guess you mean this board [10:48] kidd piko whispers: no, i mean how are you notified when the Plazas are choking or dead? [10:48] kidd piko: no, i mean how are you notified when the Plazas are choking or dead? [10:48] Orion Hax: by all the users that go WTF is the plaza down [10:49] Warin Cascabel: LOL [10:49] kidd piko: hehhee, classic :) [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/serverstats/ [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ah ya [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: usually someone tells us [10:49]  Nebadon Izumi: its not very sophisticated at the moment [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: very manual labor at this point [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: being the softare is always breaking [10:50]  kidd piko: it shouldn't be too hard to band together a nagios plugin, then you could even automate the restarts [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: its hard to implement monitoring software [10:50]  kidd piko: *bang together [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: ya but we dont always want automated restarts here [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: we like to inspect why it died [10:50]  Nebadon Izumi: being these are dev boxes really [10:51]  kidd piko: ahh, i hear ya [10:51]  Nebadon Izumi: not truly production environment [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: eventually though [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: that would be very nice [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: once we are into the crashing once a week phase [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [10:51] Nebadon Izumi: not hourly [10:51] Orion Hax: this is all alpha the fact it works at all is a testement to the programers [10:52] kidd piko: yes, maximum amounts of respect to the programmers [10:52] Fly Man takes off hat and takes a bow ... [10:52]  Alex Wood: what is the typical number of users you guys expect a server to support? [10:53] Fly Man: Alex, depends on the hardware [10:53] Alex Wood: yah, i'm just thinking for a midrange ... dual core machine [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: and network bandwidth too [10:53] Orion Hax: and how well your isp likes you [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: more than hardware [10:53] Alex Wood: 2-4 gb ram ... intranet [10:53] Fly Man: Yeah, Network speed and machine rate ... [10:53]  Fly Man: Uhm, what connection in client and server? [10:53] Fly Man: 10 Mbit or 1 Gbit ? [10:53] Nebadon Izumi: i think right now if you go much beyond 10 users on any level [10:53] Alex Wood: 1 GB [10:53]  Nebadon Izumi: it will not last long [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i think in the end though [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: 100 users is not unrealistc [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: maybe more [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: but thats long ways off [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: long long ways off [10:54] Alex Wood: 100 users is a long way off? [10:54] Fly Man: At this moment, if you get 20 ppl on 1 region ... [10:54] Nebadon Izumi: lots of tweaking to do [10:54]  Warin Cascabel: Just keep the scripted attachments to a minimum. :) [10:54] Fly Man: and keep it up longer then 1 hour [10:54]  Fly Man: Be lucky then ... [10:54]  Nebadon Izumi: ya if you want a SL stable region [10:54]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [10:54]  Nebadon Izumi: long long ways off [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: something you can plow 100 users and 10000 scripts into [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: is quite a ways off really no ETA [10:55]  Warin Cascabel: I set up a region for a machinima recently - with five users, it brought a quad-core machine with 4GB RAM, on a gigabit LAN running standalone, to its knees, because everyone was wearing heavily scripted cyborg avatars. [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: ya we have alot of optimizing to do [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: its nice we are stable [10:55]  Nebadon Izumi: but we have soooo much optimizing to do its not even funny [10:56]  Monk Zymurgy: LSL seems to run lightening fast though..very nice [10:56]  Monk Zymurgy: way faster than in SL grid [10:56] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, I noticed a lot of places in the code where a function call was used as an upper limit in for loops. That can be optimized easily. [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably because you dont have 8000 scripts running [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: in the same sim [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol [10:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats pretty average number in SL [11:08]  Fly Man: K, the floor is Charles .... [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: got plowed by a crashing hippo [11:09] kidd piko: hi BlueWall [11:09] Charles Krinke: Morning, all. I thinkwe will be heading towards European daylight time in two weeks. [11:09] BlueWall Slade: Hi [11:09]  Richardus Raymaker: permission to land ? :P [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: yowzers [11:10] BlueWall Slade: UCDT? [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: that wasnt to smooth [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [11:10] Charles Krinke: I think the order of business is 1) "recommended" version for the week. 2) When next tagged release 3) Anything to help devs 4) Anything to help testers. [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: First of all, since there were no objections, I believe this meeting will move to compensate for European summer time in 2 weeks [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: yeap, i think thats still the current plan [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i wasnt sure if it was 1 or 2 weeks [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: so for Europeans the time will stay the same, but for the Americans it will go back an hour to what the times used to be before dalyight kicked in [11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: yep, in two weeks [11:11] Charles Krinke: Can someone *other* then Nebadon or Justin help us out by noting this on the wikik? [11:12] Fly Man: It's already noted out .... [11:12] PocoLoco Darwin: it's already there [11:12] Starky Rubble: and in the IRC notice [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: It's okay, I've already updated http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours [11:12] Charles Krinke: better yet [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks [11:12] Charles Krinke: "Recommended" for the week? [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: 8802 seems to be something im hearing alot [11:12] Warin Cascabel: 8802's been remarkably stable for me. [11:13] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server  0.6.3.8802  (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False [11:13] BlueWall Slade: here too [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: i run 8803 now [11:13] Charles Krinke: region crossings and viewing adjacent regions ok with recent trunk? [11:13] Warin Cascabel: Yes. [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: ram is the biggest killer sofar i can see. [11:13] Fly Man: 8802 [11:13] BlueWall Slade: 8805 here, running good - eating ram [11:13] Fly Man: That's after the region lookup error [11:14] Fly Man: and it's stable ... [11:14]  Charles Krinke: Is there any correlation between RAM and avatars, prims or scripts? [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya i dont think there is any escape of the pacman bug [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: Yes. Even if we still don't have runaway ram problems, it's possible that we could manage the asset cache better yet [11:14] Charles Krinke: How can the testers help that effort, Justin? [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: Maybe reduce the caching time - ideally in conjunction with creating a persistent cache level [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: ? [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: If we do implement such a thing, then reporting back ram usage would probably be the best thing. Might also require some stats tweaks to recreate the statistic which tells you how much memory the asset cache is using [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, it may be that the real problem right now is still a memory leak somewhere [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't believe much has been done to address that issue (the one Nebadon has been reporting for quite some time) [11:16] Charles Krinke: Perhaps folks can note in their lab notebook ram usuage each day and as we go forward, there should be some svn checkins which decrease ram usage with the same avatars, scripts and objects. [11:17] Charles Krinke: shoot, we're all in the same boat. We use too much RAM and we just have to figure out how to keep moving forward. [11:18] Warin Cascabel: There's definitely some kind of leak involving avatars (or attachments). My primary region only uses about 85 MB after starting up, but as more and more people arrive and leave, it keeps growing. Often after a few hours it's up over 800MB. [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: Yes, there is room for improvement. It's a difficult problem to tackle unfortunately [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya i agree with that Warin [11:18] monk-spikes-v2.5b: Script running [11:18] spike: Script running [11:18] spike: 20 [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: some kind of lock under load [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I might try introducing an asset cache clear command [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: just keeps going and going [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: Then at least you could clear the local asset cache and see if that reduces the memory used [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: we used to have that [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: didnt we have a clear cache command? [11:19] BlueWall Slade: that would be a good test [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i swear we did at one point [11:19] Charles Krinke: Perhaps someone could test the prmise of RAM going up with a blank or nearly blank region under just avatar load? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yes, that does ring a vague bell... [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: that would be an interesting test [11:19] Warin Cascabel: My regions that don't get many visitors seem to keep a low RAM usage. [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think that command has existed for some tim ethough (asset clear) [11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: Same here [11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: Mine hardly changes [11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: But I'm the only one there right now too [11:20] Starky Rubble: Same with me [11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: not sure if the avatars are doing it or the nscripts on astro. but that one can use so much ram. or i miss a 3e thing. [11:20] OtakuMegane Desu: Rezzing and removing prims seems to have minimal effect beyond what you would expect [11:20] Charles Krinke: I have held the opinion that this is made worse with scripts and objects, but others keep telling me I am wrong. [11:20] Warin Cascabel: I half suspect it has something to do with textures. The last couple of weeks, I notice my bandwidth meter is absolutely pegged, even when all the textures seem to have loaded. [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect there are multiple causes [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: theres probably a 1/2 dozen reasons [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: and at the end of the day, even if we were ultra efficient, I think OpenSim will always be a RAM hungry application [11:21] Triple Peccable: Hello everyone. I find CPU usage climbs over time even more so than RAM usage climbing over time [11:21] Charles Krinke: The question might be, is it avatars, scripts *or* objects. Or all three. Finding the end of the yarn would help unravel it. [11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Unless you can compress the data loaded in RAM, yeah [11:22] Charles Krinke: So, one suggestiong is to track regions with ram, scripts, objects over time and see if we can find a trend to allows diagnosis. [11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: True. All I can say is prims seem to have little effect beyond the expected RAM usage in my experience so far. [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: i think scripts are number 1. [11:22] OtakuMegane Desu: I'll give a try to adding scripts to one of my regions and see if something comes of that [11:23] Starky Rubble: Ok, so a benchmark would be a void - unvisited over a period? [11:23] Charles Krinke: Justin: Do we need to form a committee to test your "parallel message bridge" ?? [11:23] Triple Peccable: I think crashed avatars leaves uncleaned-up stuff in RAM, and affects the CPU utilization also [11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Actually, that probaly is a factor [11:23] OtakuMegane Desu: Now that you mention it [11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: Yes. I've never had a RAM usage problem with a region without visiting avatars, even if there is a lot of stuff and quite a few scripts in that region [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: I think it's pretty well tested by now :) [11:24]  Charles Krinke: Stary: I would think right after starting a regioon, then after an hour, a day with number of MButes, avatars, scripts and objects might help [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: but thanks [11:24]  Charles Krinke: k [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: Yeah, I suspect tests involving avatars might help [11:25]  Charles Krinke: The "SpeedBuild" is quite amazing to me as I see half a dozen folks building furiously on Sunday's and the "Sandbox Plaza" seems to handle it, unlike a few months ago. [11:26]  Starky Rubble: and onlookers IMing [11:26]  OtakuMegane Desu: The code has improved considerably even in a couple months [11:26]  Charles Krinke: Nebadon: I like the graphss on the wall, thanks for that. [11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: it where pretty stable unless a few weeks ago. ok sometimes a restart because hi ram use. [11:26] Triple Peccable: With my region, near here, I can watch RAM and CPU usage climb as avatars enter and leave Wright Plaza as child agents only. Even if no one enters my region at all, after enough avatars enter Wright Plaza and leave (or crash), my RAM and especially CPU usage is through the roof [11:27] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: cpu usage is anomalous. Ram usage isn't ideal either - I would guess it's probably the result of clients requesting texture data from you [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: This texture data then ends up using memory in your cache for 24 hours [11:27] Triple Peccable: it never drops, untill I restart the region [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: but there may also be a separate memory leak from agents [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: why 24 hours ? thats very long [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: It could be made shorter. [11:28] Snowdrop Short: is your system ever being exhaused memory wise [11:28] Snowdrop Short: ? [11:28] Snowdrop Short: otherwise it probably won't garbage collect [11:28] OtakuMegane Desu: I would have thought it'd drop excess data too [11:29] Triple Peccable: me? no, I have 2.5GB, it nevers gets close to that [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: after 2-3 days if nothing crash it start to swap [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: 4GB [11:29] Snowdrop Short: and when does garbage collection kick in? [11:30] Triple Peccable: don't know that it ever does. I can try leaving the region up longer to see I guess [11:30] Snowdrop Short: especially level 4? (I belive 4 i highest) [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: why is hippo so unstable today here [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: im on hippo [11:30] OtakuMegane Desu: So more frequent garbage collection (or any to begin with) might help out [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: thats simple to configure ? [11:30] OtakuMegane Desu: I should think so [11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would personally doubt GC tweaks will help [11:31] Charles Krinke: Hippo here, also. We stress theregion with "office hour". [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: but by all means try [11:31] Triple Peccable: yes, although I don't see how that could help the steadily increasing CPU usage over time [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: cpu usage is not my biggest pain.. mostly its already out of memory before i hit to high cpu [11:32] OtakuMegane Desu: Unless the two are related [11:32] Triple Peccable: just the opposite for me... [11:32] Triple Peccable: but my region is pretty empty [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: windows or linux ? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: hmm chat is lagging [11:34] Triple Peccable: yes [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: stuff i said hasnt come through even [11:34] Snowdrop Short: everything is lagging right now [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i said my regions that sit and do nothing few visitors can run for weeks at a time [11:34] Triple Peccable: linux - Debian Lenny (for the 3rd time) :) [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: my record is 14 days [11:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: ping [11:34]  Richardus Raymaker: memory usage nebadon ? [11:34]  Orion Hax: i run a linux region on my own and havent really noticed any ram/cpu drift [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: never climbs [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: my memory usually stays static on my windows regions that have few vistiors [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: once you intro visitors things change very fast [11:35]  Triple Peccable: Neb, any idea why, on the webpage map, one of my map tiles would be showing for 2 other regions I have nothing to do with? [11:35]  OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah [11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, visitors are the trigger [11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think, but a complex trigger since they invoke many things [11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: it must be something with avatars yes [11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Avatars themselves, plus prims, textures and often scripts as well that come with them [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: but avatar carry's textures,scripts,attachements. can be so much [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [11:36] OtakuMegane Desu: Chat IS lagging lol [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya this is quite a load today [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ping [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: mine seems unlagged [11:37] Fly Man: What else would you ecpect with 21 visitors here :p [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: so taking that into consideration its not too bad [11:37] OtakuMegane Desu: It's been intermittent [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: map says 22 avatars [11:37] Letshava Goodnight: oops now i am at 0,0,0 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: might need a trelog letshava your sitting on teh floor behind me [11:37]  Letshava Goodnight: lol [11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: What exactly is up with the disconnects on tp lately? [11:38] Fly Man: But the recommended version for this week is 8802 ? [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: tp has always been quite flakey for me [11:38]  Charles Krinke: What do the testers need that they dont have from the devs? (Be Nice, please) [11:38] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah but half the time when I tp in the last 2-3 days I get disconnected [11:38] Fly Man: Charles, does money also count ;) [11:39]  Fly Man: *grins* [11:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: actually, before that, I'd like to ask if anybody is running mono2.2 [11:39]  OtakuMegane Desu: f [11:39]  Warin Cascabel: Yes, I'm running 2.2 [11:39]  Fly Man: Define 2.2 [11:39]  Fly Man: as Mono trunk is also 2.2 [11:39]  Fly Man: and 2.5.1 [11:39]  OtakuMegane Desu: I'm actually running 2.5 [11:39]  Triple Peccable: you sure it isn't 2.0.5? That is what mine is.. [11:40]  Fly Man: Nope [11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: i run mono 2.2 opensuse 11.1 64bit [11:40]  Fly Man: Mono 2.5.1 (SVN TRUNK) [11:40]  OtakuMegane Desu: Sort of on accident when I set up SVN. But it seems to do fine, so I left it lol [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ya were still on mono 2.0.1 here [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: 2.2+ seems crashy [11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: i run daily on test vps with HG. seems ok [11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: Yes, I tried 2.2 recently and got mini-trampolines errors on startup [11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: Hmm [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya trampolines and ODE errors on 2.2+ [11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: 2.5 has been fairly stable. And fast. [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: just about every rev [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: on empty sim its fine [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but on this plaza and my personal sims [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: no go [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: they dont even start [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: so im stuck on mono 2.0.1 [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: which is great [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, no seems i run 1.2.6 on vps. thats strange [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: not a hiccup hardly [11:42] Warin Cascabel: Haven't had any trouble with 2.2 [11:42] Alex Wood: using mono 1.2.5 here [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: opensuse 11.1 runs http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/56464/uwv-en-achmea-verzuimen-servers-te-vergrendelen.html [11:42] Warin Cascabel: But 2.3 gives me issues. [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: oops [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: 2.2 ran on this box for longest time [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: 2.3 ran on the ugaim too [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: 2.0.1 [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: both started melting down [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: why does suse not have mono 2.2 ? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: and reverting to 2.0.1 fixed the problem [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: Yeah, 2.0.1 seems okay, but I definitely get crashes on 2.2 with many scripts [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, now I get the chat lag [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: usually linux releases dont update fast [11:42] OtakuMegane Desu: You said ODE generates errors on the higher mono versions? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: they tend to stay pretty static in terms of large updates [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: total revision changes [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: Interesting that you see it too - I think it's brought out when there are lots of scripts [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: atleast for as long as they can [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya ive been seeing it for some time [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: But from a bug report I read, the issue may well be fixed in mono 2.4 [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: we are usually pretty far ahead of the curve in terms of testing mono with opensim [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but came full circle on this one [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: back at 2.0.1 [11:43] OtakuMegane Desu: I have 2.5, I'll try experimenting with some heavy script and physics. See if anything breaks [11:43] Charles Krinke: I'm sinkiing [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i saw that ckrinke [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: welcome back [11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Lol [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: :) [11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: Otaku: That would be helpful. I would predict that you shouldn't encounter the issue [11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, sorry I derailed the agenda :) [11:44] Charles Krinke: Justin, your questions are never 'derailing" [11:45]  OtakuMegane Desu: Just about anything is probably relevant in these early times lol [11:45]  Charles Krinke: We're all in this boat togethere nd collaboration is the key to getting to shore without 'sinking' [11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: why is the avatar heigt setting still aproblem. its neve rgood or to high or to low [11:46]  Warin Cascabel: Can I ask what's considered "heavy" script usage? I haven't seen any issues with mono 2.2 on a region with 400+ scripts. [11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: i mean te avatar hight from the floor [11:46]  Justin Clark-Casey: Warin: I would consider that heavy script usage. That's interseting. Are you on x86/mono? [11:47]  Warin Cascabel: Yes. [11:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: Interesting that you don't see the problem then - how curious [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: hellow? [11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh eh [11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: cant move, that happens to me more the last days, opensim or bad conenction ? [11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: fgsfds [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: curious, I lost some chat [11:48] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh, there we go [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe well we can chat [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: as long as we can chat [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: lets keep going here [11:48] Warin Cascabel: So did I, Justin [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: it memory swapped i think [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: maybe GC cycle [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: test [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: i try on HG region 20090302 mono daily [11:51] OtakuMegane Desu: yay [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: heh are were alive [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: lol amazing [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: still cant move [11:52] Gaspar Roux: avs piling up outside [11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: At least the music videos are ok lol [11:52] Tiffany Sicling: does this thing work? [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: coff coff [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ok we lost it [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: im gonna kick it [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: i think we can conclude it here [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: run. go to the escape pods [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: good meeting though [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yep [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: good meeting [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: ha ha [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming everyone [11:52] Kevin Paisley: yay! [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks Charles, Nebadon [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: its still running ! [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully next week it will be even more stable [11:53] Triple Peccable: :) [11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, such optimism :) [11:53] Tiffany Sicling: it turned into IRC!