Chat log from the meeting on 2014-06-10

 [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I remembered the meeting this week. :) [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew :) [11:02] Shez Oyen: Hi Andrew :) [11:03]  Andrew Hellershanks: hey, everyone [11:03]  BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:9000: Hi Andrew [11:05]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:05]  Connected [11:06]  Sarah Kline: hi [11:06]  Shez Oyen: Hi Sarah [11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks. Going to be a bit distracted today, double meeting booked [11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: the other one is a telepresence [11:07]  Mata Hari: do you get telecake with the telepresents? [11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: I wish [11:07]  Rand Blinker: lol [11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: I am partially distracted trying to build some packaged code. [11:08]  Shez Oyen: I'm updating server and working in GIMP [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:08]  Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah [11:09]  Sarah Kline: hi [11:09]  Nebadon Izumi is Online [11:09]  Mata Hari: @JCC: re http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6764 think those attached patches make a big improvement to line numbers reported in script errors....might not be 100% fixed but it's a big step in the right direction [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: agreed [11:09] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit.. [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [11:10] Shez Oyen: Hiya Neb :) [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: sorry I am late, wasnt watching the time [11:10]  Mata Hari waves to Neb [11:12]  Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:13]  Mata Hari: has anyone else been having any issues with regions not fetching built-in AO animations? I've been having that issue at Posh's region which is running rc2 and only seems to want to fetch and play about half my FS AO...the other half of the time it plays the SL default for that action. On my own sim and many others I don't have that issue at all but I have had it happen on a few other sims than just Posh's. [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: I think that has been a problem for a while [11:14]  Mata Hari: yes [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: there is an inherint issue I recall with viewer AO [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: Melanie explained a while back, not quite recalling now [11:14]  Mata Hari: I haven't made a Mantis about it because I can't track down any sort of consistent way to repro it [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: some kind of race/timing issue not easily overcome or something [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: would be bad if thats not fixt before release [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: im pretty sure its been that way for a long while [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: otehr side, good to learn a scripted ao [11:15]  Richardus Raymaker: but scripted ao\'s are terrible not always work [11:15] Mata Hari: could be....I've just noticed it a lot in the last month or so [11:15]  Mata Hari: scripted AO is useless in regions where scripts are disabled [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: yes [11:16] Mata Hari: and also eat cycles when you're visiting someone else's sim [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: Mata it happens also if you go from a god region to one that have problems with viewer ao ? [11:16] Mata Hari: so I try to avoid them if I can [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: god = good [11:17] Mata Hari: it seems not to happen if I have the animation in my viewer cache already [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: thats what i meanm, maby the region just slow or bad server ? [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: slow connection ? [11:17] Mata Hari: I have a couple dancing AOs set up in FS so if I clear cache and don't use them in a "good" region first then they'll cause problems when I activate them [11:18] Rand Blinker: anybody else seeing a double instance of menu when sitting on a menu driven chair? [11:18] Mata Hari: could very easily be a slow connection....Posh's regions are definitely on a sub-par server [11:18] Rand Blinker: or is that just my script? [11:18] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:19]  Shez Oyen: Hi Dahlia :) [11:19]  Mata Hari: @Rand: not that I've seen, and I use that type of thing a lot [11:19]  Rand Blinker: i got one I made in SL, multi-level menu that works perfect there but when I transfered here it started that [11:20]  Rand Blinker: wasnt sure if it was a difference in systems or a glitch [11:21]  Rand Blinker: still trying to figure out the physics engine here so I can get a vehicle script to work right [11:22]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev          74cda2a: 2014-06-06 14:51:05 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: I have not seen that either [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: you mean the blue popup menus? [11:22]  Rand Blinker: yes, the blue popup [11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: you can try my flag hud on the back of the big couch [11:23]  Nebadon Izumi: hit the "Flags" button [11:23]  vegaslon plutonian: could be possible if you using a touch event in the dialog instead of a touch_start [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: you will see it works normally [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ah that would make sense vegaslon [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: touch is like a machine gun [11:24] vegaslon plutonian: touches, controls, etc go alot faster in opensim then sl [11:25]  Rand Blinker: I'm using llAvatarOnSitTarget [11:26] Rand Blinker: then toutch_start to get menu back after closing it [11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: everything thats not useing start or stop gave for me in the past almost always double results [11:26] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Has touch changed recently, seem to remember having to move the mouse while touching to fire repeated touch events. [11:26] Rand Blinker: hhhmmm [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: so it happens when you sit then? [11:26] Rand Blinker: yes [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: would need to see the script then [11:27] vegaslon plutonian: sure only one script in the linkset? [11:27] Rand Blinker: if I could rezz here I would drop out an example [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: send me a copy [11:27] Rand Blinker: got 6 chairs arround a table with the table as an unscripted root [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:9000: yes, for some reason our touch event doesn't continue to fire unless the mouse is moved [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: its no perms [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: cant read it [11:29]  Rand Blinker: with several chairs in the linkset, if someone else sits or gets up the menu comes up for everyone else still sitting [11:29] Rand Blinker: aaakkk....I always forget perms [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its no copy [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: so i still cant read it [11:31]  Rand Blinker: it dont do that in SL, so thought it might be a difference in how the OpenSim system reads it [11:31]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Bluewall, some timer would be required, which I suppose complicates things. Though that is the behaviour in SL [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no copy scripts cant be read or you can just copy paste it [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: other assets arent like that I dont think [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: just scripts [11:31] Rand Blinker: no copy scripts cant be read? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if i could read it i could copy it [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: would defeat the purpose of no copy [11:32] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:9000: :) [11:32]  Rand Blinker: lol [11:32]  Rand Blinker: well modify defeats transfer for sure [11:32]  Rand Blinker: lol [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: ya dont worry i wont use it for anything :) [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: well.... technically.... copy-pasting a no-copy script isnt really copying the script, it's copying the text of the script ;) *ducks* [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ah [11:33]  Rand Blinker: I dont mind you using it....just so many in SL start selling copies and I get nothing out of it [11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: it might be because you are doing change & CHANGE_LINK [11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: that might make it fire twice [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: line 279 [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: if (change & CHANGED_LINK) [11:34]  Rand Blinker: if (change | CHANGED_LINK) ? [11:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: No, & [11:35]  Rand Blinker: would that work better? [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: i think if all your doing is detecting sit [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: then CHANGED_LINK would be enough [11:35]  Richardus Raymaker: maby you can betetr place it in different state. sometimes states are usefull to avoid weird things [11:35]  Rand Blinker: so... if (CHANGED_LINK) [11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:9000: if((change & CHANGED_LINK) = CHANGED_LINK) { ...} ? [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya give that a test [11:36] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:9000: < == CHANGED_LINK [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: == [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:36]  Rand Blinker: if (change == CHANGED_LINK) ? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: maybe that is better [11:36] Mata Hari: no..... if (change & CHANGED_LINK) {.....} [11:36] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:9000: that test is OK [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: let me see what my chair does [11:37] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:9000: if((change & CHANGED_LINK) == [11:37]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:37]  Dahlia Trimble: if ((change & CHANGED_LINK) != 0) [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm no that is actually right [11:37]  Nebadon Izumi: im doing same thing [11:38]  Mata Hari: no "=="..... (change & CHANGED_LINK) will return true if a change in links is what trigger the event [11:38]  Andrew Hellershanks: that tells you there was a change. You need to work out what link changed. [11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: ya very odd I dont see really any reason that this would make it fire twice [11:38]  Nebadon Izumi: it looks very similar to what I do in my chair [11:39]  Dahlia Trimble: are multiple people sitting? [11:39]  Rand Blinker: try linking 2 copies of the chair to a root prim [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe its because multiple chairs linked together [11:39] Dev Random: when somebody unsits, do all linked prims get the event? [11:39] Mata Hari: yes [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: oh yes [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: that would make it fire simulatnously [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): started [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): started [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): started [11:39] Mata Hari: every script in the linkset gets the changed event [11:39] Rand Blinker: yes, that is what is happening [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:39] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: yep see [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: 3 goodbyes [11:40] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:40] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:40] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Rand Blinker, enjoy your sit.. [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: need to detect the link number and send only to that one [11:40] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:40] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:40] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya what Richardus said [11:40] Rand Blinker: link the chairs to an unscripted root prim [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: need targeted messaging [11:40] vegaslon plutonian: weird works fine in secondlife [11:40] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit.. [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: must be how we handle the changed event [11:41] Rand Blinker: thats what I am thinking [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am surprised it works in SL [11:41]  Richardus Raymaker: maby its a bug in sl ? [11:41] Mata Hari: maybe in SL it only fires for root prim of a linkset? [11:41] Rand Blinker: it works perfect in SL [11:41]  vegaslon plutonian: This event will trigger in any script using it (in its current running state) whether the script be in a child or root prim of a link_set. E.g. A changed event in a script in the wheel (child prim) of a car will trigger when any avatar sits on or stands from the seat (root prim) of that car. [11:42] Rand Blinker: no, none of the chairs are the root [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: what type have the link send message ? only this prim ? [11:42] Rand Blinker: got 6 chairs arround a table with the table as the root [11:43] Rand Blinker: the script should only effect the child prim but seems to fire through the linkset [11:43] Rand Blinker: \ [11:44] Rand Blinker: also, when I unsit...sometimes it asks permission to animate.....not when first sitting [11:44] vegaslon plutonian: ya alot of people use a key as a bool and opensim does not like that [11:44] Rand Blinker: if I say no on permissions I remain in the sit position instead of walk animation [11:44] vegaslon plutonian: have to actually test to see if it is a null_key [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim questions today? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: I have not heard any issues with the teleporting fix Justin [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: at this point I would say its likely safe for inclusion [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: good. Any testing on the bulletsim change from misterblue yet? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: I know its been well tested too [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: remind me which change again [11:49] Dev Random: Nebadon, are you talking of the collisioins stopping working? [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: sunday, linksets? [11:49] Rand Blinker: other than ....how do I set physics in a script so that the vehicle follows the contour of the ground or other surface [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I am not aware of any testing on that [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: 3552cfb [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but these regions are updated [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:49]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev          74cda2a: 2014-06-06 14:51:05 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: oh maybe this region isnt [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i'll give master git some good testing in a bit [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks. I would like to get that in since it is something that can crash the sim [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: afaik [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: I did give Misterblue my Reticulation region oar [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: for testing and fixing that issue [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/oars/reticulation_2014-06-08.oar [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: one of my chief concerns is that there hasn't been a physics regressio, for which general testing it useful [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: is useful [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: would it be difficult to adapt the ODE ones for bullet? [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: write somewhere on the todo list [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: ode ones? [11:52] Dev Random: somebody mentioned in IRC that boats seemed to have become worse. don't know that they mantised it though. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: oh I thought maybe ODE had some [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: none of the physics modules have regressio ntests [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: bad assumption i guess [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunately they are difficult to do because of the coupling with native code [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: i assumed it was just testing region functions at the region leve [11:53] vegaslon plutonian: there are some "tests" for bulletsim that can be ran [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, I forget there are some [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: afaik there is nothing comprehensive though [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: not that they couldn't be done, just it's awkward to get the native libraries loaded in the regtressio ntest context [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: I had a collision geometry test but it's quite manual [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: well its been pretty quiet on the physics front, I think most complaints are all the usual ones we have had for a while now [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: usually when stuff breaks there we find out pretty quick [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: but i'll give it a good once over later [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: depends if it's obvious or subtle [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: not used it much. also stepped back to llpost move for the plans. easyer to script [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, subtle stuff can go unreported for many months [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: I think thats just a reality we have to deal with [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I know there are mesh collider failures but I don't know if they are new or have been around for a while [11:57] vegaslon plutonian: speaking of test has anyone seen these before http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Test_Scripts [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: just wear a thin foil head when 0.8 is released and people go really use verhicles [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: around for quite a while dahlia [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: over a year [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: people always complain [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: as far as I recall its never worked quite right in Bullet [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: my NPC system i made broke that [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortuately, that means one then has to work trying to distinguish real problems from other issues [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: and how long ago was that [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: bullet is picky about geometry and rejects it [11:58]  Mata Hari: does anyone know if Diva intends to tackle the existing HG bugs or is she only doing new stuff and assuming that someone else will be fixing the stuff that got broken? [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: is your NPC the problem or ? [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: of course Mata [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: is diva planning to release fats 0.8 when its available ? [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: she is always interested in fixing bugs [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: the rejection filter is kinda.... over doing it [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and yes there willbe a new D2 once 0.8 comes out [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: i know people that are waiting for it [12:00]  Mata Hari: kk...I don't want to keep bumping year-old bugs so I'll just assume that eventually it will get addressed [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: yes [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: he is aware of it [12:00]  Dahlia Trimble: which bugs Mata? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: she* [12:01] Mata Hari: HG friends system broken since last spring [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but ya if you have anything in particular i can point her to I will [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: whats broken about it? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: is there a mantis? [12:01] Mata Hari: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6603 [12:01] Mata Hari: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6769 [12:01] Mata Hari: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6863 [12:02] Mata Hari: etc [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: are you on IRC? [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: best thing would be to ping her there [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: version incompatibility ? [12:02] Mata Hari: presumably all interlinked [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: and discuss directly with her [12:02] Mata Hari: I'm not on IRC very often unfortunately [12:02] Dahlia Trimble: I remember HG friends working but often the grids my HG friends are on go away [12:03] Mata Hari: it's super-easy to reporuduce all of those [12:03] Mata Hari: HG friends did work with 0..7.6...it's only since sometime last spring that it got broken [12:04] Dahlia Trimble: last spring, as in a month or 2 ago? [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ok well if you do manage to get on irc for abit i would give her a ping [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: or im sure you can dig up her email from the opensim-dev email list too [12:04] Mata Hari: no, as in 14-16 months ago when I first reported the bug [12:05] Mata Hari: April '13 [12:07] Dev Random: Are you guys planning to stop 0.8 dead in its tracks and produce an intermediate release that can survive the 0.8 protocol changes but which does not actually introduce any of them. [12:07] Dev Random: ? [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: what protocol changes? [12:07] Dev Random: I don't know... I just read that in the mailing list and it made ma chuckle [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: there are no incompatible changes at this point [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: but if there were any, the like solution is a point release such as 0.7.6.2 [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: in fact, that's the major reason why there was a 0.7.6.1 [12:08] Richardus Raymaker: i dont think you can upgrade without change protocols like you say. whatever that m,eans [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: actually, ideally you want to update in that manner [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: like http being designed as protocol that could evolve over time [12:09] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) *waves* [12:09]  Richardus Raymaker: its shgame that the mailinglist poster did not showed a script [12:09]  Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [12:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, time for me to take off as well [12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks folks [12:10]  Richardus Raymaker: if you use 0.7.1 i think the scripts have bugs in new versions [12:10]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:10]  Dev Random: seeya