Chat log from the meeting on 2008-09-09

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Torrance Miles

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kurt Stringer

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mic Bowman

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: eaglefx Binder

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Takeshi Hykova

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: easy babcock

[12:21] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 18

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: say list

[10:04] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[10:04] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 0

[10:14] Teravus Ousley is Online

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: say list

[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch

[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley

[10:14] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 2

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[10:15] Teravus Ousley: Heya nebadon.. am I early?

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: heh no earlier than i am

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: :P

[10:15] Harrison Partch: hey teravus remember me?

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: but yea we have a good 45 minutes

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: i just restarted everything though

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: were all set

[10:16] Teravus Ousley: No, I don't remember who you are Harrison. I'm a loony.. of course I remember who you are.

[10:16] Harrison Partch: you have real avatars now.

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: heh yea

[10:16] Harrison Partch: how can i ditch this ruth?

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you just have to create a new shape in your inventory

[10:17] Harrison Partch: i wanna be a furry like in sl

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: then wear it

[10:17] Teravus Ousley: unfortunately, a lightning thing took out one of my computers and.. well that was that

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: ah, well at this point its roll your own avatars

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:17] Harrison Partch: k

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: this suit im wearing is a modified version of a female suit of armor my group sells in SL

[10:18] Harrison Partch: i think i am almost ready to take on a sim of my own.

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i ported the basics over with Second Inventory

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: then redid it here in opensim for male avatar

[10:18] Harrison Partch: ready in intention. maybe not in expertise.

[10:18] Harrison Partch: Second Inventory. Aha. Sounds useful.

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: yea its a blessing and a curse

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:19] Teravus Ousley: something tells me that fountain is on a bit too high.. you need to lower the strength of the water a bit

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: the sound?

[10:19] Harrison Partch: i must do a google on it then.

[10:19] Teravus Ousley: no..

[10:19] Teravus Ousley: Just .. the water is going outside of the fountain.

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:19] Harrison Partch: this server seems to run faster than SL

[10:20] Harrison Partch: prolly cause few people here

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: yea there isnt much going on here either though really

[10:20] Harrison Partch: k I gots another question

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: though it does run quite well for what is here

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: and for how far along opensim is

[10:20] Harrison Partch: i want to start a sim for a particular purpose.

[10:21] Harrison Partch: So that certain people can meet and build and decorate and, mostly, talk

[10:21] Harrison Partch: people who now post on certain sites

[10:22] Harrison Partch: sites which discuss subjects which would be against SL terms of service

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: what subjects are against TOS?

[10:23] Harrison Partch: racial nationalism

[10:23] Harrison Partch: for instance

[10:23] Harrison Partch: question: can we join our sim to the grid but institute controls

[10:24] Harrison Partch: so that noone can wander in by mistake to be offended?

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: hmm i dont think so

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: can we Ter?

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: out permissions system is pretty limited

[10:24] Harrison Partch: i would need a standalone sime then.

[10:25] Teravus Ousley: well, technically as long as the grid allows it.. you can do parcel bans.

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: eventually we will be able to

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: hmm yea we do allow that

[10:25] Teravus Ousley: Some grids may not allow that though

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt think it worked though

[10:25] Teravus Ousley: it's a policy

[10:25] Harrison Partch: see, myself, i would not likely offend anyone

[10:25] Harrison Partch: but you can't control users

[10:25] Harrison Partch: so i would like to have a lot of privacy

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: can you do a wide ban that prevents everyone access

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: accpet a white list

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: ?

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: is that possible Ter?

[10:26] Harrison Partch: and then we'll need to moderate heavily and kick people out

[10:26] Teravus Ousley: I don't think so.. ckrinke was 'eh' on it .. so I didn't bother implementing it right now

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:26] Harrison Partch: to prevent disruption

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: id like to have it myself

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: so i can build without interuption

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: people going over borders while i build kills me

[10:27] Harrison Partch: i like that duck who made it?

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: i did

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: its copy

[10:27] Harrison Partch: what was that import program called?

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: second inventory

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: its sort of limited

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: you can only do stuff you have full perms on

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: alot of textures still dont make it

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: you cant do multi object items

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: only single objects

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes its almost easier to just start over

[10:28] Harrison Partch: i would prefer voxels to polys.

[10:28] Harrison Partch: did you know i write voxel raytracers obsessively?

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: heh, i think i remember you now

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: your the voxel guy

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:29] Teravus Ousley: yep

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:29] Teravus Ousley: you aught to work on a voxel based client

[10:29] Harrison Partch: hey, if you make me a furry av here i will pay you in SL

[10:29] Harrison Partch: I have been thinking about it

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: heh, i dont have the time to be honest

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: i spend every waking moment testing opensim and keeping this grid running

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:30] Harrison Partch: how about just some avatar not this stupid ruth thing?

[10:30] Teravus Ousley: I'm tossed between working.. and working on OpenSim also.. so not likely for me.

[10:30] Harrison Partch: i can build one i know and i should.

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: yea its not hard

[10:30] Teravus Ousley was implementing attachments and made this

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: check over in freebie garden

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: i made a pose stand

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: that works proper

[10:30] Harrison Partch: eve use qavimator?

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: not good

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: but ive used it

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:31] Harrison Partch: i have tried it but never imported bvh to SL

[10:31] Teravus Ousley prefers poser

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: yea poser is much better

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: qavimator is good for free though

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: the animations are not real fluid though

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: unless you spend a month

[10:31] Teravus Ousley got poser free during the 5.0 free deal last year.. it was free for 30 days

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: heh nice

[10:32] Warin Cascabel: Good $TIME_OF_DAY.

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: i havent used poser in a while

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe hello Warin

[10:32] Teravus Ousley: 6.0 was the latest at the time.. for a little while.. so they had a 1 month promotion on 5.0

[10:32] Harrison Partch: poser s commercial i see

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: its not cheap either

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: student version is cheap

[10:32] Harrison Partch: i use all open stuff

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: its like 79$

[10:32] Harrison Partch: on linux

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: ah yea

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: no poser on linux

[10:33] Warin Cascabel: Might run under Wine, unless there's copy-protection.

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: there likely is

[10:33] Warin Cascabel: I used to use Animation:Master, but neither the disk-based nor HASP copy-protection would work.

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: some kind of protection

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: atleast poser 7 anyway

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: not sure about earlier versions

[10:34] Harrison Partch: http://www.youtube.com/user/xenopusRTRT

[10:34] Teravus Ousley: yeah, I doubt it.. it makes use of lots of funky windows stuff that probably wouldn't work stupendiously on WINE

[10:34] Harrison Partch: some voxel stuff to annoy you

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: the poser interface is far from standard too

[10:35] Teravus Ousley: True.. it isn't.. but some say it's easier then .. blender

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: heh yea

[10:35] Warin Cascabel: Hahaha.

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: i can agree with that

[10:35] Harrison Partch: well, OK. I will do more research on getting a server. Then if the region privacy stuff isn't implemented soon enough I can run standalone.

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: blender is like a bad dream

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: where your falling

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: with no bottom

[10:36] Teravus Ousley: blender is difinately.. 'different'. But cool in it's own way

[10:36] Harrison Partch: I like you guys. You are programmers.

[10:36] Warin Cascabel: No, no, no - it's like a fantastic dream where you're surrounded by everything you ever wanted... but you try to get to it and end up miles away from where you were trying to reach.

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:36] Harrison Partch: Can blender be used for bvh animations?

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: its likely there is some path from blender to bvh

[10:36] Teravus Ousley: I'm not sure.. but I doubt it.. it was more designed to be a modeler then an animator

[10:36] Warin Cascabel: I'm fairly sure it can, but I haven't tried it yet.

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: wether it be direct or through conversion

[10:36] Warin Cascabel: ...

[10:37] Teravus Ousley: maybe some plugin will let you... *shrugs*

[10:37] Warin Cascabel: Teravus, you need to check out where blender is *now*. It's definitely an animator now.

[10:37] Harrison Partch: ok i should run it has been refreshing to talk.

[10:37] Teravus Ousley: oh? hehe

[10:37] Harrison Partch: l8r allig8rs

[10:37] Warin Cascabel: Here... a short animation produced entirely with Blender: http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/

[10:37] Teravus Ousley last used the version where they were just implementing tablet drawing on mesh models

[10:38] Teravus Ousley: unfortunately.. sculpties didn't really accept the resolution I wanted to do my 'clay shaping' in

[10:39] Teravus Ousley: It was always orders of magnitudes less detailed then I wanted it to be :D

[10:39] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, sculpties are pretty limited... unless you use lots of them and blend them seamlessly.

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: sculpty was never intented to replace whole linksets

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: just give them more definition

[10:39] Warin Cascabel: Still, they're a nice addition to the toolbox.

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: i think theres more efficient ways though

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: good for now

[10:40] Warin Cascabel: I still haven't worked out how to get razor-sharp edges like I've seen with them. Like your staircases in the freebie garden, Nebadon.

[10:40] Teravus Ousley: yeah.. at the moment.. they're best done procedurally..

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: i made those with a free sculpt tool

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:40] Warin Cascabel: Bah, it figures.

[10:41] Teravus Ousley: a procedural tool can factor in every last vertex and shape it into something nifty and easy to texture

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.xs4all.nl/~elout/sculptpaint/

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: but

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i prefer tatara for things besides stairs

[10:41] Warin Cascabel: Nifty, thanks.

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: http://kanae.net/secondlife/tatara.html

[10:42] Teravus Ousley: I made a flower.. but the darn java program froze more times then it actually produced something reasonable

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: sculpt paint is a pain in the ass

[10:42] Warin Cascabel: Heh.

[10:42] Warin Cascabel: Blender and I have achieved an uneasy understanding of each other.

[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:43] Teravus Ousley: well, for what I use it for now.. it's pretty easy to use

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i need to learn mroe about the basics of blender

[10:43] Warin Cascabel: They've actually done a lot of good work on documenting.

[10:43] Teravus Ousley: .. visualizing the output of prim-->mesh in physics for OpenSimulator

[10:43] Warin Cascabel: Their tutorials actually pertain to the current version now...

[10:43] Teravus Ousley: haha

[10:43] Warin Cascabel: First time I tried to learn Blender, their tutorials were all for a previous version, and about half the keystrokes and parameter locations had changed.

[10:44] UUID Speaker: Warin Cascabel, your key is 190482f8-b1bc-4c36-aa8d-cfb36c8fea61

[10:46] Warin Cascabel: Reading #opensim-dev, I'm really glad I migrated to MySQL...

[10:46] Teravus Ousley: Hi!

[10:46] Warin Cascabel: Hello!

[10:46] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. gestures work?

[10:46] Warin Cascabel: I wasn't watching... try it again?

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: only locally

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think we will see or hear the gesture

[10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:47] Warin Cascabel: I saw the text, but nothing else.

[10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:47] Teravus Ousley: I typed

[10:47] Teravus Ousley: haha.. / aw

[10:47] Teravus Ousley made the trigger '/ aw'

[10:47] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:48] Warin Cascabel: Is there any sound or animation with that gesture?

[10:48] Warin Cascabel: Or just the text?

[10:48] Teravus Ousley: no, just the text so far..

[10:48] Warin Cascabel: Oh. Well, in that case, it worked. :)

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: cool

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: thats a start

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:49] Warin Cascabel: Heh.

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: now i can make my spam shout

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:49] Warin Cascabel: Wheee. :)

[10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:49] Teravus Ousley: do you see me autographing?

[10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: do again

[10:49] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: wasnt looking

[10:50] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:50] Warin Cascabel: Yes, I saw it.

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:50] Teravus Ousley: ok.. so we at least have text and animations

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: cool

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: wonder when that started working

[10:50] Warin Cascabel: /gesture

[10:50] Warin Cascabel: bah.

[10:50] Warin Cascabel: Hmph, doesn't seem to be working for me.

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: probably the animation prioroty

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: thats still aproblem i think

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: only certain priority animations seem to work proper

[10:51] Warin Cascabel: Ah.

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: the highest prioroty ones

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: not quite sure why

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: i havent had much desire to chase it

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: kind of low priority

[10:52] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, far too many other things on the plate.

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: yea theres many things that i could probably mantis, but have held off on it

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: because its such a low prioroty

[10:53] Warin Cascabel: I'm trying to figure out how to get the region sun parameters working right, because I'm tired of having to go in and set up my sun every time I restart.

[10:53] Warin Cascabel: Not to mention the trial-and-error to get it where I want it.

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[10:54] Warin Cascabel: This probably isn't the easiest project to try and learn C# for, though.

[10:54] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:54] Teravus Ousley: This is text from a gesture

[10:54] Teravus Ousley didn't hear the audio

[10:54] Warin Cascabel: Nope, no audio here.

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea same

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: nothin

[10:55] Warin Cascabel: Then again, I didn't even hear typing until I'd been here for about ten minutes.

[10:55] Teravus Ousley gave you test.

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[10:55] Warin Cascabel: LOL

[10:55] Chris D is Online

[10:55] Neas Bade is Online

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: that was me

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: i hit play in world

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: did you hear it?

[10:56] Teravus Ousley: nope

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[10:56] Teravus Ousley: just play locally

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i did

[10:56] Warin Cascabel: I heard it when I played it locally.

[10:56] Primitive whispers: booting up sound orb.

[10:56] Primitive whispers: bootup complete.

[10:56] Warin Cascabel: Odd... if I try to play a sound in world, I don't hear it.

[10:56] Teravus Ousley: I heard that one

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea this is scripted

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:57] Primitive whispers: playing sound

[10:57] Primitive whispers: Stoping sound

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: shutUP

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:57] Warin Cascabel: Heh.

[10:57] Teravus Ousley: haha

[10:57] Neas Bade: oh no, movie voices

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: heh your invisible still for me

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: no cloud of gas either

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: and there you are

[10:57] Teravus Ousley: I see Mr Neas

[10:57] Chris D is Offline

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: yea just became visible for me

[10:58] Teravus Ousley: otherwise known as S-Dog....

[10:58] Neas Bade: still had to rebake

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: all i saw was hovering name before

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: ahh

[10:58] Neas Bade: :)

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: say list

[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch

[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley

[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel

[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven

[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade

[10:58] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 5

[10:58] Warin Cascabel: I usually see a hovering name until I move my camera close to it. Then I see the person.

[10:58] Chris D is Online

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: yea i didnt move cam

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its been static

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: i setup a bigger area upstairs

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: with more couches

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: dunno if anyone else is coming though

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:59] Charles Krinkeb is Online

[10:59] Charles Krinkeb: morning

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: things seem to be alot more stable here under Xengine

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: morning charlesa

[10:59] Teravus Ousley: so apparently gestures work for text exclaimations and animations

[11:00] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Charles

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: charles

[11:00] Neas Bade: hey charles

[11:00] Teravus Ousley shouts: HI!

[11:00] Neas Bade: man, the sound is warbly today

[11:00] Whump Linden: Hey.

[11:00] Charles Krinkeb: Question if i may. Justin made a change over the weekend that *might* help the "new user request denied". Has the frequency gone down or remained the same?

[11:00] Warin Cascabel: Howdy.

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: hello Whump

[11:00] Neas Bade: I'm also getting crap fps

[11:00] Neas Bade: only 8

[11:01] Teravus Ousley: Hello there bill

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Charles

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i can say Wright Plaza has not stopped accepting logins

[11:01] Warin Cascabel: Hadn't noticed, Charles, sorry.

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: but Zaius did

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: once or twice

[11:01] Neas Bade: it's nice that couches are working

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[11:01] Whump Linden: Teravus: we deployed the fix for content type to sim1.vaak.

[11:02] BlueWall Slade is Online

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: i have more couches upstairs

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: we could move

[11:02] Teravus Ousley: Whump: any issues as a result

[11:02] Neas Bade: man, there is too much cool detail on WP

[11:02] Charles Krinkeb: No problem. Since Whump is here, maybe we should start with a discussion of interop and how we can help move that forward now that Teravus has so kindly put Zha's patch into svn.

[11:02] Teravus Ousley: ?

[11:02] Neas Bade: I have to turn quality of graphics down to get good fps :)

[11:02] Whump Linden: Not to my knowledge, but we're monitoring.

[11:02] Teravus Ousley: excellent :D

[11:03] Teravus Ousley: I didn't expect there would be.. but who knows.. :D

[11:03] Neas Bade: hmmm, typing animation seems stuck

[11:03] Warin Cascabel: Neas: Do you have another instance of the viewer hanging around in your task list? That's an issue I ran into last week, which really dragged down my fps.

[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[11:03] Neas Bade: not that I know of

[11:03] Whump Linden: Thanks Charles, so yesterday we started a discussion of what it would take to get OGP running in grid mode. And that folks have alread been experimenting with it.

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: say list

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey

[11:03] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 10

[11:03] Neas Bade: yeh, nope

[11:03] Charles Krinkeb: Is sim1.vaak a standalone, Whump? And a follow up question, "Are there sims on OSGrid that we can expect to be running with OGP enabled sometime?"

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin

[11:04] Neas Bade: hey justing

[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks, hello nebadon

[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neas

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:04] Neas Bade: hey, Ter, I've been going through the hurliman patch to sqlite, and it seems to really have cratered things

[11:04] Torrance Miles is Online

[11:04] Whump Linden: sim1.vaak is connected to other regions on vaak.

[11:05] Teravus Ousley: ah. Well then we'll have to investigate why. It was cratered for mySQL also.. but I went through and fixed quite a bit

[11:05] Neas Bade: I just fixed embedded inventory, but I'm curious if you know some places that you were unsure in applying things that might make me smoothing out the issues go faster

[11:05] Chris D: Fermi, Dirac, Pauli and Bohr are all running with OGP enabled.

[11:05] Whump Linden: but you can only OGP tp from the region on vaak that you rez on.

[11:05] Teravus Ousley: It's the same with gridmode here..

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: and you can OGP to osgrid from Linden Beta?

[11:05] Neas Bade: I get a sim crash on prim save now it looks like. I need to dig a bit more

[11:05] Whump Linden: but that's the case on any OGP region at the moment.

[11:06] Kurt Stringer is Online

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: .. you can only OGP out of the region you OGP'ed in on.

[11:06] Whump Linden: let me spin up another viewer and see if I can rez on Fermi

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ah

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: and.. it works across instances.

[11:06] Charles Krinkeb: Are there any issues in running OGP on your regions, ChrisD? Would you recommend I run it on my regions, for instance?

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: ... but teleporting out .. you must be on the same instance of OpenSim.exe

[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Charles

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: any region within that instance will do.

[11:07] Charles Krinkeb: hi, justin. great to see you again.

[11:07] BlueWall Slade: it's not enabled per-region, but per-simulator

[11:07] Teravus Ousley: Well, it's a shared module

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: you too - I'm still attuned to pacific time so I've only just had lunch

[11:07] Neas Bade: heh

[11:07] Chris D: Dirac is theregion that you need to rez on. The problem is it is above the 4096 limit :( http://dirac.vworlds.co.uk:9000

[11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yet it's 8pm in the evening...

[11:07] Teravus Ousley: .. so you turn it on.. and it works for all regions.. though it'll find a random one to put you in.

[11:08] Whump Linden: Yes, that's a concern. I'm going to have to see what can be done in the viewer about that bug.

[11:08] Charles Krinkeb: which brings up an interesting administrative point. In talking with folks, I believe we will keep this "Office Hour" at 1900UTC when the US goes off daylight savings time for the Winter.

[11:09] Teravus Ousley: Yeah. I put a note on that bug.. asking if it was really closed.. because unfortunately it'll become an issue probably within the next two years.

[11:09] Charles Krinkeb: SDague. FYI. I believe Nebadon has set this region to xengine recently.

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: but OS functions work

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i made sure of that

[11:10] Primitive: Script running

[11:10] Teravus Ousley: So, a couple of options..

[11:10] Teravus Ousley: We could.. have inventory working in OGP.. But.. there's a few caviots..

[11:10] Teravus Ousley: caveots..

[11:10] Teravus Ousley: 1.. that isn't speced yet..

[11:10] Whump Linden: Okay, I rezzed with OGP on Dirac.

[11:10] Teravus Ousley: so, likely it'll change.. and you may loose stuff

[11:11] Teravus Ousley: 2. In grid mode, that will require that you trust your regions to create grid accounts

[11:12] Teravus Ousley: 2 could be mitigated by putting the OGP service also in the user server.

[11:12] Charles Krinkeb: Are those caveats appropriate for a wiki paragraph on opensimulator.org to guide folks in using OGP?

[11:12] Teravus Ousley: not yet really.. just discussing some of the potential directions for the future.

[11:12] Whump Linden: and probably 3. this may all change

[11:12] OpenSim Agenda Board: Agenda - OGP Status - libopenmv hot spots - 0.6 release status?

[11:13] Teravus Ousley: ahh, yes.. reiterating number 1 :D

[11:13] Charles Krinkeb: Personally, I would say getting the teleport details worked out without inventory stuff is to our advantage at this time.

[11:13] Whump Linden: / interesting, I flew off the edge of dirac

[11:13] Teravus Ousley: Yes. agreed.. though.. There are not really too many issues with teleporting yet..

[11:14] Teravus Ousley: err.. anymore.. and people are starting to get frustrated.. antsy :D

[11:14] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe to a region not running OGP, Whump?

[11:14] BlueWall Slade: can we have inventory on our "home" grid, and forego it on excurssions to other grids?

[11:14] Chris D: You should be able to cross into Fermi, Pauli and Bohr

[11:14] Teravus Ousley: nah, you should be able to succesfully cross into a region not running OGP

[11:14] Whump Linden: Chris D: Dirac appeared as a stand alone region

[11:14] Whump Linden: were it's neighbours up?

[11:15] Teravus Ousley: ping?

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: mic test

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: 1 2 1 2

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: sibelance

[11:15] Neas Bade: I was just wating for the end of the OGP stuff :)

[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: :D

[11:16] Whump Linden: k

[11:17] Charles Krinkeb: Any more OGP discussion? Should we move on but allow questions later as we expand the agenda?

[11:17] Whump Linden: So at the moment we know that Teleport works. As you run into issues and create mantises for them, can you create an accompanying JIRA?

[11:17] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. Whump.. I'm not sure if you can do this.. however it's been requested that the client attempt to connect to the region with a UUID given to it by the OGP service.

[11:17] Neas Bade: well, in parallel, as we can multithread here, are there common hotspots that happened iwth libopenmv inclusion that we should be looking for in fixing code?

[11:17] Teravus Ousley: .. as opposed to the Aditi UUID

[11:17] Chris D: Jusr checking

[11:17] Charles Krinkeb: Do we need someone to be the focus for joint Mantis/Jira issues and if so, who should it be?

[11:17] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[11:18] Teravus Ousley: Neas. Look for things missing.UUID, and .Guid

[11:18] Neas Bade: I think Ter is our man here

[11:18] Neas Bade: on the OGP front

[11:18] Neas Bade: Ter, yeh that is what broke embedded inventory

[11:18] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe ChrisD can help Teravus on testing reports and wiki if Chris has the time.

[11:18] Neas Bade: prim.ToString instead of prim.UUID.ToString

[11:18] Teravus Ousley: honestly.. the thing that was the most common that I fixed.. was missing .UUID

[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: wright plaza stats : Show Stats = 328mb 14 agents

[11:19] Neas Bade: so why were all the .UUID stuff stripped?

[11:19] Teravus Ousley: A search and replace failure by Mr H

[11:19] Chris D: Whump: All regions are up and I have successfully logged in via OGP and crossed regions.

[11:19] Whump Linden: Teravus, let's discuss in IRC after the meeting. I'm not sure what all that would affect.

[11:19] Teravus Ousley: kk

[11:19] Neas Bade: sigh

[11:19] Charles Krinkeb: Afternoon, Mic. Welcome.

[11:19] Mic Bowman: hello

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, seeing some interesting NREs on the user service

[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: top shows 998 virt / 848 res / 45% cpu

[11:19] Teravus Ousley: Hey Mic

[11:20] Mic Bowman: hey teravus...

[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Mic

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats 45% of 1 core though

[11:20] Neas Bade: ok, unfortunately from my sniff test this morning, that means our default mode with sqlite is really broken

[11:20] Neas Bade: I'll putter on fixing it as I have time

[11:20] Mic Bowman: the couple of fixes i've had to make post-OMV were on some implicit casts that didn't get caught

[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are you using top?

[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: yea its running

[11:20] Neas Bade: Mic, it's worse than that

[11:20] Mic Bowman: i've been running the OMV code now for quite a while

[11:21] Mic Bowman: with only minor problems

[11:21] Neas Bade: Mic, not with sqlite :)

[11:21] Mic Bowman: i can believe that...

[11:21] Neas Bade: unless you've got something way different than that is in tree

[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you might want to try htop on wp

[11:21] Mic Bowman: well.. i do have something different than the tree... but not *that* much different

[11:21] Mic Bowman: and no i don't touch sqlite

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: top is running on the WP server

[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a slightly more colourfil version of top which breaks cpu usage down via the cores

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: those stats were for this server

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ah

[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: htop also exists on wp - I installed iy myself

[11:22] Mic Bowman: something like that :-)

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: well i see 45% on mono

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but 22% on main cpu

[11:22] Neas Bade: well, sqlite is still our default mode, so it is a bit frustrating that the patch wasn't tested on it

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so i can only assume its 1 core

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: its a core2

[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: You can get top to break things down per core as well

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea i did that on accident before

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: but couldnt figure out how i did it

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: nabdon: press 1

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: k cool

[11:23] Charles Krinkeb: SDague: Would you recommend we continue to test a combination of MySQL and SQLite on OSGrid in the future on various regions?

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, sqlite needs afixing...

[11:23] Teravus Ousley: well, most of the issues I fixed were in the grid server. It seemed to work ok in standalone for me.

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: puzzling that it broke

[11:23] Teravus Ousley: A few in grid comms..

[11:23] Neas Bade: if we are going to leave sqlite as the default, then we should run it somewhere on osgrid

[11:23] Teravus Ousley: Put the custom types back in for remoting

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: i thought charles was primarlity running sqlite

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: im sure alot of people are

[11:24] Neas Bade: I just fixed embedded inventory, however something in content save path takes down the whole sim

[11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Ok. I am running SQLite on all my personal regions. I believe all the plazas are MySQL now.

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: id wager 50% of the grid is sqlite

[11:24] Neas Bade: which means it will run fine, until you try to rez something new

[11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Could this have some bearing on the intermittent reports of inventory disappearing?

[11:24] Neas Bade: then you break hard

[11:24] Neas Bade: charles, yeh, maybe

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: my understanding about that

[11:24] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: charlies: it might do, if by that people mean that they can't rez stuff....

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: is that if you cross over into a region with local assets

[11:25] Neas Bade: embedded inventory was completely gone until the last commit

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: your grid inventory gets whacked

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ive had it happen

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it recovers

[11:25] Chris D: That happens with MySQL as well (inventory breakage)

[11:25] Neas Bade: as the select criterai for prim items was wrong

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: but there will be a period of confusion

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: mixing of grid and local assets is a total disaster right now

[11:25] Mic Bowman: francis just stepped in... has anyone tried the patch we put in 2026(?)

[11:25] Teravus Ousley: haha, was selecting for the name of the type instead of the UUID, right? :D

[11:25] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[11:25] Mic Bowman: for intenveotry cache?

[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: well, this is the inevitible period of fixing things after the libomv patch I guess :)

[11:25] Charles Krinkeb: SDague and other core developers: "It has been suggested that local assets be discouraged or disabled in gridmode by a few folks?" What do you think?

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I would have to strongly +1 that, but you know my opinion :)

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you right now

[11:26] Teravus Ousley: I would agree.. we need tests on both regions

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: if you cross from a grid asset region

[11:26] Teravus Ousley: err.. both fronts

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: with attaachments

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: into local asset region

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: kiss your attachments goodbye for ever

[11:26] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: forever?!

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: and theres a high chance your inventory will die too

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:26] Charles Krinkeb: Does that mean we should work on fixing local assets in grid mode to help the project along?

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: i have had dozens of assets lost

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: cant wear them anymore

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: so even on a relog things are broken?

[11:26] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: cant rez them

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: nothing

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: only option has been to erase them

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and start over

[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmmmm, U

[11:27] Teravus Ousley: haha, good thing I made multiple copies of my attachments!

[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess attachment stuff does craete new assets...

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: yea i have mine all backed up now

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and i stopped crossing borders

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: for this very reason

[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: and if those are saved into the local region then you're going to be bolloxed

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: its unsafe

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i only cross borders in my own regions

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and thats it

[11:28] Charles Krinkeb: Originally, we were encouraging local assets in gridmode so that folks could have confidence they had all their assets on their own hard disk, but it sounds like we have a side-effect now.

[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: we could still achieve that

[11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: by havnig a persistent local asset cache....

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: also

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: someone running local assets

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: if you clear your cache

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and log into a neighbor

[11:28] Teravus Ousley: a long long time ago.. I can still remember when they used to make me smile..

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: you cant see any textures or sculpty in their sim

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: uless you log directly into it

[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: yep

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: also bad

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: very very bad

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lots of problems with local assets on grid

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: im currently discouraging it

[11:29] Richardus Raymaker: that explain soms grey region somewhere posisble

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: thats is why

[11:29] Teravus Ousley: well, at some point we should be keeping track of the user's grid servers..

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there are many

[11:29] Teravus Ousley: and use that for assets for that user..

[11:29] Charles Krinkeb: I would say if someone decided to use local assets to protect their work, that they should accept side effects. But, we might want to wiki the "side-effects".

[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: there is no protecting your stuff on osgrid

[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i can proclaim that

[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: 100%

[11:30] Chris D: The problem is oother are suffering the side effects

[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: local assets or not

[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: only protection copy it someway as backup to hdd

[11:30] Chris D: save-oar

[11:30] Warin Cascabel: The "side-effects" include destroying other people's attachments... and not everybody reads the wiki.

[11:30] Richardus Raymaker: yup. thats one. SI works sometimes too

[11:30] Teravus Ousley: hehe.. keep a copy of your db/sqldump

[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: I think that would be less of a porblem if their region was a separate island

[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: and wasn't directly contiguous with other regions

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats what im telling people

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: if you want local assets

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: move far far way from mainland

[11:31] Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps we can make the rule that our mainland needs to be all gridassets and local assets should go off somewhere other then 10000,10000.

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: there is no way to enforce that

[11:31] BlueWall Slade: is there something like save-oar for inventory?

[11:31] Chris D needs to persuade Taoki to move to grid assets before I rebuild my inventory

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: CHris

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: she is moving

[11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: not yet, but it is in plan, sortof

[11:31] Whump Linden: something like a private estate model?

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: dont worry about it

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: she will move her island

[11:32] Charles Krinkeb: We could at least make our recommended configuration for our mainland, perhaps.

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: before she fixes it

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: until she fixes it

[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: sounds reasonable to me

[11:32] Chris D: :)

[11:32] Teravus Ousley: haha, well there's the other thing.. 10000,10000 is represented in scientific notation in the client.. which means that these huge positions are really not supported currently

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: in our OSgrid release

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: of opensim

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: it is

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: infact i put new version up last night

[11:32] Charles Krinkeb: BTW. The mini-map shows a region that looks like the Microsoft logo to our south where Taoki used to have her main sim.

[11:32] BlueWall Slade: maybe the grid server can ask ethe region server a question about whigh asset mode it is using?

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: also our example configuration is already set for grid assets

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: on the instructions page

[11:33] Charles Krinkeb: got it, Nebadon. Sounds like you are covering the bases, good job.

[11:34] Neas Bade: ok, so we should also talk about 0.6

[11:34] Neas Bade: I think

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i think making local assets work better on grids with grid assets would bringe some more stability

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i think alot of problems recently

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: are due to this

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: inventory issues

[11:34] Charles Krinkeb: However the idea of the gridserver having a dialog with the region for local assets might be a 0.6 or 0.6+ feature worth considering?

[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: how would that help?

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: alot of peoples inventory are getting hosed

[11:35] Teravus Ousley: well it would implement a 'grid policy'

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: on daily basis justin

[11:35] BlueWall Slade: yes, i think that the grid server should be able to enforce policies like that

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crossing into these regions

[11:35] Charles Krinkeb: A config to control a grid policy of some sort?

[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: francis and mic are looking at some inventory issues at the moment

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:35] Teravus Ousley: We have one for parcel banlists currently

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: thats the issue

[11:35] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: ah I see - yes, that could be worth pursuing

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: it definatly correlates to local asset regions

[11:35] Charles Krinkeb: just and idea.

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: and crossing or coming near them even

[11:35] Neas Bade: I think that's past 0.6 though

[11:35] Richardus Raymaker: can the grid policy have also some permisison p [olice for objects ? one that overrule the region one.

[11:36] Neas Bade: honestly, I think we should try to clean up the rest of the libopenmv breaks and get us back to release state

[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: Hey everybody

[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: sorry to be late

[11:36] Charles Krinkeb: With that in mind: "What do we need to do to get to a 0.6 release and how far away do we think it might be?"

[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: ultimately one cannot completely overrule a region, since anybody can just change their region code

[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: hi hiro

[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I agree

[11:36] Neas Bade: well, we either need to get sqlite fixed

[11:36] Neas Bade: or deprecate it, if everyone is using mysql anyway :)

[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:37] BlueWall Slade: it could just refuse connection with a message that local asset regions are not allowed ot that they have to reside in a certain location on the grid

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i could certainly live without sqlite

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I think we want to retain sqlite./ How badly is it broken?

[11:37] Teravus Ousley: I think we want to retain sqlite

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yea its proper to keep it

[11:37] Neas Bade: I sould definitely use Mic & JHurliman's help sorting out some of the breaks

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt

[11:37] Charles Krinkeb: All my personal regions are running sqlite and dotnetengine, but I will go with the group decision.

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: mysql has big learning curve

[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: is it all inventory related?

[11:37] Neas Bade: well, right now it takes out the sim after trying to rez something

[11:37] Neas Bade: nope

[11:37] Whump Linden: / yes, for people wanting to get up and running fast, Sqlite is a big win.

[11:37] Neas Bade: not inventory releated at all that I can see

[11:38] BlueWall Slade: SQLite++

[11:38] Neas Bade: there may be breaks there as well

[11:38] Neas Bade: but right now I'm still getting tripped up by region store

[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: oh.. but it no longer manifests in mysql I presume?

[11:38] BlueWall Slade: we have a well defined upgrade path to other Db's from it

[11:38] Teravus Ousley: Neas.. one way to do it is to clean out your DBs and open a sqlite3 database in the sqlite3 tool and check out the UUIDs .. to ensure that they are indeed uuids instead of type names

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: yea the transition from sqlite to mysql here went super smooth

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: could not have gone better

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: on Wright Plaza that is

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:39] BlueWall Slade: i don't know how "well known" the steps aer to most new userse though?

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yea probably not

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: the most reliable method is a app on the forge

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: I was just about to comment on the sqlite thing when my viewer crashed

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: though save-oar / load-oar might work for you too

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: it may not still though

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ouch hiro is crashy todya

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: I would appreciate any reports about remaining bugs

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ok for me its been great

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: though I'm not sure how much time I'm going to have to work on things before the weekend

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but i dont want to over promise just yet

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: absolutely

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: whew, again LOL

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: why do we need sqlite?

[11:40] BlueWall Slade: they work 100% for me, but i have low prim regions

[11:40] Teravus Ousley: justin-cc, yes.. that is also the issue for me.

[11:41] BlueWall Slade: noobs

[11:41] Teravus Ousley: Hiro: easy, fast setup

[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus: ah, isn't having to work for a living the most annoying thing ;)

[11:41] Teravus Ousley: alas

[11:41] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:41] Charles Krinkeb: boy, thats for sure.

[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: /shake

[11:41] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:42] Torrance Miles is Offline

[11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro is up and down like a hoor's drawers today

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: yea that sucks

[11:42] BlueWall Slade: lol

[11:42] Teravus Ousley: technically.. I do like my job though..

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: maybe isp issues

[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: lol Jcc

[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: nah, just flaky client today

[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: before I crash again...

[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: what does pandering to newbs get us?

[11:42] Teravus Ousley: easy setup

[11:42] Charles Krinkeb: Just an FYI, I am running across an EVDO Cellular modem on the laptop from my office.

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: less support

[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:43] Hiro Protagonist: why is easy setup important?

[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: The democratization of the virtual

[11:43] Teravus Ousley: Because it's quick to set-up a region

[11:43] Hiro Protagonist: I dont see it as less support tbh

[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: because people with real talent are often not techies? :)

[11:43] Kurt Stringer: lol

[11:43] Hiro Protagonist: it may be on the front end, but once the user has established a region, it almost always turns to trouble

[11:43] Teravus Ousley: .. I know that generally I use SQLite for demos and things where I won't have a mySQL server available

[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yea the WAMP i use

[11:43] BlueWall Slade: SQLite makes a good standalone "workstation" too

[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: i can have mysql working in 3 minutes

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: less

[11:44] Neas Bade: yep agreed

[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, easy setup doesn't end with initial configuration...

[11:44] Hiro Protagonist: precisely Neb

[11:44] Hiro Protagonist: I just dont buy it that mysql has a high barrier to entry

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: on linux

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: mysql is not so easy

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: not nearly so

[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it;'s more awkward on windows

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: really

[11:44] Neas Bade: so, some help from people in getting things working with sqlite would be appreciated

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:44] Kurt Stringer: heh, I found it easier on Linux

[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, it's tres tres easy on mysql

[11:44] Warin Cascabel: Depends on the distro, Nebadon.

[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: i dont have problems to inbstall mysql on linux

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: yea tru

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: distro matters

[11:44] eaglefx Binder: yes it is very easy in Linux

[11:44] Teravus Ousley: Yes. It's also a forced dependency if we take out SQLite

[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, on Ubuntu

[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: with the wamp i use

[11:44] Richardus Raymaker: windows is not so difficult with xampp

[11:45] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: it has dev users already setup

[11:45] BlueWall Slade: depends on your preference

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: so i dont have to use root out of box

[11:45] Chris D: I setup a new test region with MySql today and setting up the initial DB tokk about 2 minutes max.

[11:45] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i use a Development Wamp

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: its very easy

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: already preconfigured

[11:45] Charles Krinkeb: Do we have a consensus that we *are* supporting SQLite and need to help make it more functional?

[11:45] Teravus Ousley: I personally vote -1 for removing sqlite completely

[11:45] Chris D uses Webmin on Linux

[11:45] Whump Linden: / Mac OS ships with Sqlite. MySQL is a package installer. FYI

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea i dont support removing it

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: even though id love to

[11:45] Hiro Protagonist: I think sqlite is one more thing we spend time on that would be better spent elsewhere

[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i dont support it

[11:45] Richardus Raymaker is Offline

[11:45] BlueWall Slade: keep++

[11:46] Charles Krinkeb: keep ++

[11:46] Neas Bade: ok, so volunteers to help root out the openmv bugs?

[11:46] BlueWall Slade: PgSQL++ :)

[11:46] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:46] Charles Krinkeb: blech

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: say list

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Torrance Miles

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kurt Stringer

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mic Bowman

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: eaglefx Binder

[11:46] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 16

[11:46] Neas Bade: because if early indication is anything, there are a lot of them there

[11:46] Hiro Protagonist: for my part, I generally discourage its use

[11:46] BlueWall Slade: yow

[11:46] Warin Cascabel: Neas: if you'll tell me what to look for, I'll do what I can to help.

[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: does this mean we're keeping attendee lists now?

[11:46] eaglefx Binder: how about Oracle? will that be an option?

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:46] Neas Bade: honestly, just try to run with it

[11:46] Warin Cascabel: Still trying to learn my way around the codebase.

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: only i can triger the command though

[11:46] Neas Bade: and report in crashes

[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: I would like to help but I don't know how much time I'll have in the next few days

[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: the fancy sculptures at landing point

[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: are my new sensors

[11:47] Charles Krinkeb: I got the impression that libomv is actually working pretty good by the end of the weekend.

[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: that work well in xengine

[11:47] Neas Bade: do all the things that you would normally do in the env

[11:47] Teravus Ousley: yes.. agreed. I'll run a few tests on sqlite after 6PM

[11:47] Neas Bade: charles, not on sqlite

[11:47] Warin Cascabel: Neas: OK, I'll change one of my standalone sims to sqlite and bang on it.

[11:47] Neas Bade: I was really surprised

[11:47] Charles Krinkeb: Ahh. Gotcha.

[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: im not suprised

[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:47] Neas Bade: warin, thanks

[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: are we talking sqlite just for the region store?

[11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: or asset/inventory, etc as well?

[11:48] Neas Bade: it should be for everything

[11:48] Neas Bade: to find all the different store bugs

[11:48] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:48] Neas Bade: every bit helps

[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: these libsl/openmv updates generally break everything

[11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: ah of course, sorry my brain is a little broken

[11:48] Warin Cascabel: Is there a particular Mantis number I should use to report crashes?

[11:48] Neas Bade: but it will help the most if it is everything

[11:48] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:48] Neas Bade: warin, nope, make new ones

[11:48] Warin Cascabel: OK.

[11:48] Neas Bade: and assign them to me

[11:48] Charles Krinkeb: Are there differences in xengine between the usage of MySQL and SQLite also? I got that impression from one of Melanie's recent checkins.

[11:48] Hiro Protagonist: sheesh LOL

[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it charles

[11:49] Neas Bade: charles, I suspect that mysql saves a few more things

[11:49] Neas Bade: but that's about it

[11:49] Kurt Stringer: no shouldnt be

[11:49] Charles Krinkeb: cool

[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: xengine tends to make the regions run alot better

[11:49] Kurt Stringer goes to look at commit logs...

[11:49] Neas Bade: oh, speaking of xengine, and apparently because I like to open cans of worams

[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: so either way your probably going to see imrpovments

[11:50] Neas Bade: I really do think we should make that the default

[11:50] Kurt Stringer: lol

[11:50] Charles Krinkeb: I got the impression that the so-called "Eye Candy" table changes were MySQL and not SQLite from the change log.

[11:50] Nebadon Izumi grabs a worm from Neas can

[11:50] Neas Bade: it's getting all the love

[11:50] BlueWall Slade: prim properties?

[11:50] Kurt Stringer: tis true

[11:50] Charles Krinkeb: Then there may be a difference between SQLite and MySQL in running xengine.

[11:51] Neas Bade: yeh, I think that difference is only in some of the sale stuff

[11:51] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[11:51] Neas Bade: it's pretty fringe difference

[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea its nothing thats a show stopper

[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: probably 1 mantis it would be fixed

[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: weren't you hearing that users had other problems too?

[11:51] Teravus Ousley gave you Script_Doesn't_Work_X_Engine.

[11:51] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: Ter

[11:52] Hiro Protagonist: uno mas tiepos

[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: this doesnt work?

[11:52] Whump Linden: / gotta run. If I could get a list of OSGrid regions and region URLs running OGP, that'd be cool.

[11:52] Neas Bade: another thing, have others seen a lot of timer related crashes of late?

[11:52] Charles Krinkeb: I had been hearing numerous differences and incompatibilities, but would defer to Nebadon's opinion on the efficacy of xengine at this time.

[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Bill

[11:52] Neas Bade: I think that something is being bad with timers again

[11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: before we do any default switchin gI would really like to see the LL functions file duplication disappearr

[11:52] eaglefx Binder: i would like to get mine running OGP if thats an option

[11:52] Hiro Protagonist: no timer issues unless I'm on dne

[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise it will never happen

[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: Thanks, Teravus, but my inventory keeps disappearing.

[11:53] Teravus Ousley: eaglefx, you can.. but you need to pick a region position below 4096

[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: oh, good grief

[11:53] eaglefx Binder: Ahh ok

[11:53] Teravus Ousley accepted your inventory offer.

[11:53] Teravus Ousley accepted your inventory offer.

[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: sorry

[11:53] Neas Bade: I was considering wrapping Timer so that we could track them a bit better

[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: that was me

[11:53] Francisco Koolhoven: lol

[11:53] eaglefx Binder: hehe

[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: is it going to be possible to make the LL duplicate files disappear?

[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: without this I'm not sure I could agree to a default engine switch....

[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats same script Ter

[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yours has more comments though

[11:54] Neas Bade: justin, explain?

[11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: merely because if we switch engines then we'll continue the confusion as to which file people should be patching...

[11:54] Neas Bade: no, we'll have a new default

[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: and if another completely separate engine were to come along anyway, we would again be faced with the issue

[11:55] Neas Bade: we're never getting rid of the duplicate in any real way

[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think that we can simply just patch the default and leave the other very similar looking file to disappear....

[11:55] BlueWall Slade: yeah, i thought they were both using the shared api file?

[11:55] Neas Bade: not really

[11:55] Hiro Protagonist: I think that work that continues to promote modularity wrt the script engine is good work

[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: how so? I don't know myuself since I haven't yet had an opportunity to look at the code

[11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: a good proportion is very similar....

[11:56] Neas Bade: yes, but similar and the same are quite different

[11:56] Charles Krinkeb: A good proportion is *identical*.

[11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: there are parts which are identical

[11:56] Neas Bade: basically we currently have a default that gets no development, and a non default that does

[11:57] Charles Krinkeb: About 2/3 of the two files are identical and the balance is *similar*.

[11:57] Neas Bade: if someone wants to really raise the flag and get DNE up to snuff, that's cool

[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that's an orthogonal argument to eliminating the duplicate LL code

[11:57] Neas Bade: not really

[11:57] Neas Bade: because there is a lot of time to invest in removed duplication

[11:57] Neas Bade: and it is a moving target

[11:57] Kurt Stringer: neas: agreed

[11:57] Hiro Protagonist: the thing is, it makes absolutely no sense to persist in using a default that is not being actively developed

[11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think that the time investment is huge to refactor out the parts which are currently identical

[11:57] Hiro Protagonist: especially in an alpha project

[11:57] Neas Bade: Hiro: +1

[11:58] Kurt Stringer: it is getting attention, but at a rate of 1/10

[11:58] Neas Bade: Justin, you signing up for it?

[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: well, things are heavily skewed by Melanie

[11:58] Hiro Protagonist: they arent skewed LOL

[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I will sign up to factor out the duplication before doing a default switch

[11:58] Hiro Protagonist: she is working full time is all

[11:58] Neas Bade: it really doesn't matter who skews what

[11:58] BlueWall Slade: can the differences in the function be set by configuration if they were combined?

[11:58] Kurt Stringer: bu tthe things being fixed are not in the common code

[11:58] Neas Bade: it's still lines of code

[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: heh careful chris, i think that prim likes you

[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: sure, but if Melanie went then both engines would be getting the same attention level

[11:59] Neas Bade: outsiders are patching xengine more

[11:59] Hiro Protagonist: the same could be said of anyone here and their code

[11:59] Charles Krinkeb: Actually, both LSL files are nearly at the same level and more functions are implemented in the dotnetengine original then the xegine copy.

[11:59] Kurt Stringer: only about half of the changes were Mel

[11:59] Neas Bade: yeh, we should definitely remove sqlite then, as I'm the main one that fixes it :)

[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I've seen patches to the ll scripting on both engines

[11:59] Hiro Protagonist: :)

[11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: All the significant stuff is Mel, apart from the LL wrappers

[11:59] Kurt Stringer: Charles - not sure about that

[12:00] Charles Krinkeb: I am

[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: for the last few days :)

[12:00] Kurt Stringer: just counting Not Implementeds doesnt work

[12:00] Teravus Ousley: I acutually do use sqlite most of the time.

[12:00] Kurt Stringer: thats why it takes me so long to update status

[12:00] Teravus Ousley: .. but alas, I had it on mysql over the weekend.. in standalone too

[12:01] Neas Bade: ter, it was just a joke, didn't mean anything by it

[12:01] Charles Krinkeb: I need to go back to work. On this thing we are going in circles and perception has outstripped reality.

[12:01] Hiro Protagonist: that's why I didnt plus 1 it :)

[12:01] Neas Bade: xengine is definitely getting more community attention as well as core attension

[12:01] Charles Krinkeb is Offline

[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: yea its defiantly more stable

[12:01] Neas Bade: which makes it a no brainer to default to it

[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: and more functional now

[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: the last couple days

[12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not denying that, but we should not let dne deliberately break such that people can't pick it up again right now

[12:01] Neas Bade: it is way more stable and more robust

[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that we need to look at eliminating code duplication first

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if it were dcoupled

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt matter

[12:02] BlueWall Slade: I have been using it for a good while now

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: so were not updating both constantly

[12:02] Teravus Ousley: hmm.. Zero meeting

[12:02] Teravus Ousley: see yas!

[12:02] BlueWall Slade: then main thing wrong with it, is the lack of prim property persistence

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: later Ter

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[12:02] Hiro Protagonist: that's been fixed (mostly?)

[12:02] Teravus Ousley is Offline

[12:02] Neas Bade: justin, ok, any chance I can pin you into a time frame for refactoring before a switch?

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: in xengine thats fixed

[12:02] BlueWall Slade: which isn't part of the engine

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: in DNE its never worked right

[12:02] Neas Bade: so it isin't forever :)

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: DNE is soo far behind right now

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: its already broken

[12:03] Hiro Protagonist: oh, thought y'all were talking about xe

[12:03] Neas Bade: yeh, agreed

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: in that regard

[12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: only if I then get a card which allows me to pin you down to a timing some over time :)

[12:03] Neas Bade: the whole event queue processing on DNE pretty much kills it for large envs really fast

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: the last few days really propelled xengine way beyond dne

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: DNE probably needs to be rewritten to become as effective

[12:03] Kurt Stringer: well, if I wactually both are broken ;-) but yes Ned - that is true

[12:04] Hiro Protagonist: which wouldnt really be a bad thing if someone were determined to do it

[12:04] Kurt Stringer: Neb sorry

[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I meant, other time

[12:04] Neas Bade: well the reason I ask, is because you said you didn't support a default switch before a refactor

[12:04] Hiro Protagonist: I just am not, and Isuspect no one else here is

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: that was fixed

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: last few days

[12:04] Neas Bade: Ihave not issue with a refactor

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: after i mentioned that

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: melanie fixed all that

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: this region is now Xengine

[12:04] Neas Bade: but if that blocks the default switch, we're going to stay in limbo for a long time

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: this region switched

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: seamlesslly

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: 2 days ago

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: melanie worked it all out

[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I will look at it before the end of this month

[12:05] Neas Bade: ok, cool

[12:05] Kurt Stringer: I am willing to do the work, but my job/life will not cooporate

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: all my concerns were address

[12:05] Kurt Stringer: ere to continue working on DNE, I need to be able to get the communtiy involved, part of the problem is me having to do it in private

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: addressed

[12:05] Neas Bade: it would be nice to default xe before 0.6

[12:05] Neas Bade: as I think it better serves our users

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: yea at this point its a better default

[12:05] Hiro Protagonist: +1

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt about that

[12:05] BlueWall Slade: ++

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: im not saying depircate DNE

[12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: what do you think?

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: but as far as defaults go

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: today Xengine is better candidate

[12:06] Hiro Protagonist: no, I think deprecation is premature

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think charles had to bail

[12:06] Hiro Protagonist: maybe a big note on teh wiki though

[12:06] Neas Bade: yeh, he did

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: RL work syndrome

[12:06] Hiro Protagonist: 'this code needs lurve'

[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I'm just still hearing that we have issues with xengine

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: RLWS as its called in the medical circles

[12:06] Neas Bade: I'm hearing way more issues with DNE

[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no problem with making it the default, I would just like us to move cautiously and be able to pick up DNE again if necessary

[12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: sure - I'm hearing other people have the opposite situation

[12:06] Neas Bade: for what it's worth, every IBM project had to swtich from DNE -> XE

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: yea that makes sense

[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: but I'm going on secondhand head evidence here

[12:07] Neas Bade: DNE didn't work for any of them

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: yea try agian

[12:07] Neas Bade: it broke down under scale real fast

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: 99.9% chance it will now

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: before it was bad

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: i agree

[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't deny that - but we want to be modular in this project

[12:07] BlueWall Slade: neb - you said melanie fixed it - is that the prim properties?

[12:07] Kurt Stringer: frankly either need much more done

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: yea

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: most of the script stuff persists now

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: including

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: the HTML on prim

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: the texture persists

[12:08] BlueWall Slade: so you no longer need to watch CHANGED_REGION_RESTART ?

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: osDynamicTextures persist now

[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: the only thing I've seen it drop so far is phantome

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: lists persist

[12:08] Kurt Stringer: xengine is much more modular, and has state

[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: no blue you dont

[12:08] Neas Bade: justin, yeh, but I think we'll have a better modular story if we get one working fully first, then figure out how to play around with what we want to optimize

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: this list

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: say list

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Harrison Partch

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Warin Cascabel

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Francisco Koolhoven

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Neas Bade

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinkeb

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Whump Linden

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Chris D

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: BlueWall Slade

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Torrance Miles

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kurt Stringer

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Mic Bowman

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Hiro Protagonist

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: eaglefx Binder

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Takeshi Hykova

[12:08] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 17

[12:08] BlueWall Slade: ok, nice

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: will persist a region restart

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: it will persist 10 restarts

[12:08] Neas Bade: a lot of the DNE arch is just not going to work beyond toy state

[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: hey Neb

[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I think we have an opporunity to do something now before we go forward

[12:08] Hiro Protagonist: do you have that script handeh?

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I will look at the problem

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: see the scultpure

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: at landing

[12:08] Neas Bade: coolio

[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: behind you

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: grab them

[12:09] Hiro Protagonist: yah

[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: if I can't get it done then we just make the default switch anyway

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: both are scanner sensors

[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming everyone else not here agrees

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: they are copy for eveyrone

[12:09] Neas Bade: yep

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: so feel free to grab em before you go

[12:09] Kurt Stringer: JCC: take a look at my patch

[12:09] Hiro Protagonist: cool, have done

[12:09] Neas Bade: I'll make sure to bring it up again in a couple of weeks based on what you've figure out

[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: kurt: is it public? THat would help a lot

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: the visitor list only responds to owner currnetly

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i didnt want meetings spammed with user lists

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[12:10] Kurt Stringer: checked into mantis some weeks ago

[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, I will be doing the minimum possible to eliminate code dupes

[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no intention of doing a big fix on dne

[12:10] Kurt Stringer: that does not include my latest work though

[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: kurt: which number?

[12:10] Kurt Stringer: one sec

[12:10] Neas Bade: ok, I need to bail and fix sqlite some more

[12:10] Neas Bade: later folks

[12:10] Neas Bade is Offline

[12:10] Hiro Protagonist: lol

[12:10] BlueWall Slade: bye

[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: bye

[12:11] Kurt Stringer: JCC: 1780

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: well im impressed with this regions performance today

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: 10000% improvment

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: over last month

[12:11] Kurt Stringer: yes!

[12:11] Hiro Protagonist: things have been REALLY stable since ter and jhurliman got the libomv wrinkles rubbed out

[12:11] Chris D is Offline

[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: you didn't hear anybody failing to get in today?

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: none

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: not a single person

[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I saw some slightly funny stuff on the user console a bit earlier

[12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, cool

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: excpt hiro

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[12:11] Hiro Protagonist: yeah, I'm always the anomoly ROFL

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: crash master general

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: he set a new personal record today

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: :P

[12:12] Kurt Stringer: gotta go - bye all

[12:12] Hiro Protagonist: lol prolly so

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: later

[12:12] Francisco Koolhoven: bye

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: great meeting guys

[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, thanks kurt

[12:12] BlueWall Slade: g'bye

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i'll post it up on wiki

[12:12] Kurt Stringer is Offline

[12:12] Richardus Raymaker: bye

[12:13] Hiro Protagonist: vereh laggy today

[12:13] Hiro Protagonist: I guess lag is better than crashing every few seconds

[12:13] eaglefx Binder: well talking about the Xengine, is that just switching it on in the OpenSim.ini?

[12:14] Hiro Protagonist: pretty much eagle

[12:14] eaglefx Binder: ok

[12:14] Hiro Protagonist: it's no worse to set up than anything else in opensim.ini

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: things have been pretty snappy for me this morning

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: i was excited about the meeting

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: i had a feeling ti would go well today

[12:14] Hiro Protagonist: mine is either network or local-load related I'm sure

[12:15] Warin Cascabel: Might want to set the os functions to true, eaglefx, if you want to take advantage of the extended function set.

[12:15] BlueWall Slade: hehe, a far-cry from a month ago, eh?

[12:15] eaglefx Binder: my sims have been running 3 days now without restart i think ;)

[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: yes, excellent point Warin

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: yea a month ago the meeting lasted about 5 minutes

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[12:15] Warin Cascabel: hehe

[12:15] BlueWall Slade: 3 avatars max :)

[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: heh

[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: ok guys

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: now i have timers running

[12:15] Hiro Protagonist: I gotta hit the showers

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats a big jump

[12:16] Justin Clark-Casey: aaaaaaaarrrrrghhhhh, logouts ahoy?

[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: ok Hiro

[12:16] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

[12:16] Hiro Protagonist: bbiab

[12:16] Hiro Protagonist: :)

[12:16] Hiro Protagonist is Offline

[12:16] BlueWall Slade: see ya Hiro