Chat log from the meeting on 2021-06-29

 [11:01] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi all [11:01] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:01] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi all [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I'm getting a different error when I log in to this grid than I used to get. [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps it is the same error but it was changed to say the name of the supposedly missing item. [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I finally found out what item I was supposedly wearing that has a missing asset. [11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hello all! [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker. [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: There isn't much to report in the way of code changes since last week. There were a few minor items. The main one worth noting is a change related to starting scripts when items are rezzed from user inventory. [11:11] Ubit Umarov: actually it was fix owner of the a prim when it is rez from another prim contents by drag into land [11:12] Ubit Umarov: then yeah scripts where not started on that case also [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Bill. [11:13] Bill Blight waves [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: Who wants to get us started this week? [11:14] Ubit Umarov: guess no one does that but a few, since think it wehre very old bugs [11:15] Ubit Umarov: you already did start andrew [11:16] Ubit Umarov: think i also added another animation [11:16] Kayaker Magic: Which one was missing? [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, there was a commit mentioning adding another animation. [11:17] Ubit Umarov: from the basic needed set that all viewers used to ship ( in usa words) with [11:17] Ubit Umarov: the away animation [11:17] Ubit Umarov: that looks a avatar sleeping standing [11:17] Ubit Umarov: looks like [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you think all the animations are now in place? [11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeah 118 or so of them [11:18] Ubit Umarov: see me? [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:18] Kayaker Magic: Ah, they use that for AFK [11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeap same [11:19] Ubit Umarov: it is also part of the fixed set of anims one can set on gestures [11:19] Ubit Umarov: fun how those have alimited set no? [11:20] Ubit Umarov: outch [11:20] Ubit Umarov: fs has a big list [11:20] Ubit Umarov: not sure we do have all those [11:20] Ubit Umarov: only the basic ones viewers did include [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that anim reminded me of this video that has the anim used a few seconds out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flkgNn50k14 [11:21] Ubit Umarov: 69_f ? [11:21] Ubit Umarov: why is that there? [11:21] Ubit Umarov: oops i asked to log? [11:21] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:22] Ubit Umarov: ok [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: 69_f?? [11:22] Ubit Umarov: seems fs also shows all one has on animations folder [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lol [11:22] Ubit Umarov: coff coff coff :p [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see amvans today. amvans must have solved the problem of connecting their region to osgrid. [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you need a blush gesture [11:23] Ubit Umarov: well that away was still missing [11:23] Ubit Umarov: i did add it also [11:24] Ubit Umarov: fs 6.4.21 will need it [11:24] Ubit Umarov: possible dayturn one day ? [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: need what? [11:25] Ubit Umarov: those base assets [11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are not these lib animations that are to be loaded server side only referenced by uuid in the viewer? [11:26] Ubit Umarov: wle i looked to the other assets viewers did include ( still do ) [11:26] Ubit Umarov: hmm? [11:26] Ubit Umarov: those where included on all viewers on their cache bootstrap as we spoke [11:26] Ubit Umarov: well the other assets are gestures.. a ton of them [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but loading them server side sould suffice [11:27] Ubit Umarov: and a ton of bodyparts and wearebles [11:27] Ubit Umarov: i will skip those [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:27] Ubit Umarov: the gestures are not essencial [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nothing prevents us from having the old db in the viewer still [11:28] Ubit Umarov: neither those wearebles, that where part of old ruth like avatars [11:28] Ubit Umarov: sure [11:28] Ubit Umarov: even keep using the old cache [11:28] Ubit Umarov: that does look faster, at least in teory [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is not necessarily a connection between the db and the cache [11:29] Ubit Umarov: no idea why ll thinks that plain files are are faster [11:29] Ubit Umarov: what db? [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: anything loaded from the db are static and there is no need to copy to cache as they can be reloaded from the db via the in-memory index [11:29] Ubit Umarov: what db? [11:30] Ubit Umarov: those db2 files? [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: static_data.db2 + the index file [11:31] Ubit Umarov: well that is a special simple filesystem [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so what? everything is in there [11:31] Ubit Umarov: and those static: are copied to the cache on clear [11:31] Ubit Umarov: cache that had the same format [11:31] Ubit Umarov: similar filesystem [11:32] Ubit Umarov: ll did that to speed it up, like some dbs did [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they don't have to be copied to cache. change a portion of the code to load from the file [11:32] Ubit Umarov: that was faster than just using simple disk filesystem [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: always [11:32] Ubit Umarov: no [11:32] Ubit Umarov: that copy code was removed [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: removed from where? [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: brb [11:33] Ubit Umarov: by ll when the use the new asset cache [11:33] Ubit Umarov: whne they.. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: and fs 6.4.21 [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, but 1) I have not taken that code yet 2) the cachec code was reverted by ll, so right now it is a FS beta issue [11:34] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:34] Ubit Umarov: but think ll plans to use it [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if FS want to jump off a cliff, the rest of us don't have to [11:34] Ubit Umarov: they had done same silly change on textures [11:35] Ubit Umarov: if oyu see texture cache is just like that already [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but there are not any textures loaded from that db [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they eitehr come server side or from the viewer skinning [11:36] Ubit Umarov: i said nothing abotu that.. just talking about the viewers cache formats in use now [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whihc is an improvment of how it used to be [11:36] Ubit Umarov: in old days textures where on same special file system cache [11:37] Ubit Umarov: well details [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bus as I said I am notgoing to take that cache code till it has been battle tested :-) [11:38] Ubit Umarov: for meeting and opensim what matters is that all those animations are now included on opensim base assets also [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is excellent [11:38] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we only need the clap sound [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: /clap [11:39] Ubit Umarov: well the clap gesture we do ship for ages has no sound [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: /clap [11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:40] Ubit Umarov: someone made it for opensim without sound [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there you go [11:40] Ubit Umarov: well your viewer has it [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I put in suitcase [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not in viewer [11:41] Ubit Umarov: that does not work, bc asset needs to have fixed uuid [11:41] Ubit Umarov: assets [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: of course [11:41] Ubit Umarov: but yeah i can replace that clap one and add the sound [11:42] Ubit Umarov: but will not do the others :p [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right [11:42] Ubit Umarov: they are a ton, a very silly [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of which are outright silly [11:42] Ubit Umarov: also many sounds used have human voices [11:43] Ubit Umarov: no idea about copyrighs on those voices [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no idea [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: since they were never loaded in the source repo, better not touch them [11:44] Ubit Umarov: btw testing this things remember they depend a lot on viewers cache types and state [11:45] Ubit Umarov: if you where at SL with same viewer, you may see all working.. [11:45] Ubit Umarov: same with any asset that has same uuid [11:46] Ubit Umarov: like many hardcoded on viewers [11:46] Ubit Umarov: that includes other things like EEP assets etc [11:46] Ubit Umarov: well in time we try to fix that [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I realized I don't have any equipment that can run Windows 11, so dunno how that will be for viewer dev and testing [11:48] Ubit Umarov: and why do you want to run it? [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to test [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer [11:48] Ubit Umarov: i don't have the tpm or tmp thing [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not right now [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but as we get closer to release [11:48] Ubit Umarov: possible would block it, if i had it [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all new PC will be sold with it [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Win 11 that is [11:49] Ubit Umarov: wel ms is trying to force that since win vista [11:49] Bill Blight: They are talking about disabling some of the requirements like TPM for upgrades [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: TPM? [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they temoved the test program today [11:49] Ubit Umarov: and many mbs that have it let is be disabled on bios [11:49] Bill Blight: Trusted Platform Module [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ty. [11:50] Ubit Umarov: bc that is a damm rights violation [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so people cannot test any more [11:50] Kayaker Magic: TPM means no hiding your identity ever again. [11:50] Ubit Umarov: yeha that also [11:50] Bill Blight: Apple has been doing it with their ASIC for years ... LOL [11:50] Ubit Umarov: ofc [11:50] Ubit Umarov: apple is apple [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have to log in with a MS account for it to run the Home edition [11:50] Ubit Umarov: ms wants to do the same [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can run any Mac without logging in with an Apple account [11:51] Kayaker Magic: TPM has layers and layers of paranoia built in, even checking for over-voltage reset hacks. [11:51] Ubit Umarov: sure it does help on a few security issues.. until some one makes a virus for it [11:52] Ubit Umarov: mostly is to force you to pay to use applications [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:52] Ubit Umarov: that is why they want it [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: application subscriptions [11:52] Kayaker Magic: But MicroSquishy says TPM is to protect you from hackers! [11:52] Bill Blight: evidently so far in only verifies that the TPM exists on install ... which has already been defeated ... LOL [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: MS is the hacker [11:52] Ubit Umarov: bc subscriptios is the best way to ripe ppl $ [11:53] Kayaker Magic: Another reason I am happy I switched this desktop to Ubuntu. [11:53] Ubit Umarov: well my mb is like from 2018 and i don't have it [11:53] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: You can get around it on mac, because I do :-) [11:53] Ubit Umarov: 2017 possible [11:54] Ubit Umarov: but i did not want to upgrade to win 10 :p [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: get around running Win 11 you mean? [11:54] Bill Blight: I don't own a tinfoil hat and I welcome our new overlords .... :P [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:54] Ubit Umarov: i will refuse to upgrade to 11 until forced 2 [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, with an extremely convoluted install procedure, that will force you to reinstall for the next update [11:54] Ubit Umarov: windows is going a way i just hate [11:55] Ubit Umarov: like the subscriptions crap [11:55] Ubit Umarov: permante survilance by ms [11:55] Ubit Umarov: cloud bs [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but they had Win 11 Pro running on a Raspberry Pi 4 [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ARM64 version [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: How was that managed when Win11 isn't officially out yet (AFAIK). [11:56] Ubit Umarov: bet they want to take macs out of apple :p [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: developer prerelease [11:56] Bill Blight: Windows Insider, leaked build [11:56] Bill Blight: but now it is available to Insiders [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you just need to sing off your soul to MS :-) [11:56] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: no get around not being able to run apps and idenity crap [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sign* [11:56] Ubit Umarov: you mean like some do to apple ? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lol [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I worked for Apple remember [11:57] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but that was while SJ was still alive [11:58] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: I love my mac but not real into buy a new one [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would not wark for Timmy [11:58] Bill Blight: need to bail out ... Later peeps [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: work* [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour once again. Any other OpenSim related questions or comments before this meeting winds down? [11:59] Kayaker Magic: HEY! Bill violated the 15 second warning rule before poofing! [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I noticed that too. I didn't get a chance to say goodbye. [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he was off to install Win 11 :-)) [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:59] Ubit Umarov: wel sometimes nature calls [11:59] Ubit Umarov: or things like that :) [12:00] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: It's Bill he don't care for rules [12:00] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: :-) [12:00] Ubit Umarov: wel i also remember ms telling win 10 was the last [12:00] Ubit Umarov: whatever them meant by that.. [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I had heard that too. [12:00] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: they sure did [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right, but then Apple upgraded to macOS 11 [12:01] Kayaker Magic: My amplifier goes up to 11 [12:01] Ubit Umarov: 11 seems the year thing [12:01] Ubit Umarov: debian is 11 also no? [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not yet [12:02] Ubit Umarov: beta as win [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: If there isn't any thing more for today related to OpenSim I'll call this meeting concluded. [12:02] Kayaker Magic: OK, back to work! [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: tc Kayaker [12:02] Ubit Umarov: have fun [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. see you next week. [12:02] Kayaker Magic: Or play, as the case may be. [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see anyone else typing so I will call this one done and dusted. [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.