Chat log from the meeting on 2010-12-14

[19:09] Dutchy Daredevil is Online

[19:09] Sarah Kline: nebs fault

[19:09] Richardus Raymaker: everybody make sometime sa read error sarah

[19:09] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[19:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, here we are all on top of each other again

[19:09] Sarah Kline: lol

[19:10] Basil Sosides: megalol

[19:10] Andrew Hellershanks waits for objects to rez

[19:10] Sarah Kline: aim for a seat up here

[19:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't see any objects yet. Its taking a long time for things to appear today

[19:10] Penny Lane is Online

[19:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya so many people logging in at once

[19:11] Penny Lane: BOOM!

[19:11] Nebadon Izumi: hopfully it recovers

[19:11] Andrew Hellershanks: This login lag is getting worse(?)

[19:11] Richardus Raymaker: come on nebadon. it worked for weeks the same way perfect :)

[19:11] Sarah Kline: hahah

[19:12] Sarah Kline: yes we were sitting here quite happily

[19:12] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, finally the objects start appearing

[19:12] Key Gruin is Offline

[19:12] Vivienne Clary: a nice cuddleing here ^^

[19:12] UUID Speaker: Casias Falta: 3afd95b4-00ca-06be-edc2-42fcdcaf8e20

[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya sort of sucks

[19:12] Richardus Raymaker: i saw it short back to 1.00

[19:12] Nebadon Izumi: its being worked on though

[19:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I made it.

[19:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Wait for the seats to appear then sit on one instead of trying to move from landing area to here

[19:13] Richardus Raymaker: yeah. that works much faster

[19:13] Richardus Raymaker: ok its 1.00 and dropped again

[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: the sim is definatly not 100% dead yet

[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[19:14] Nebadon Izumi: this does suck though we need to work on this for sure

[19:14] Penny Lane: It's only sleeping

[19:14] Richardus Raymaker: sleeping. need to give it more coffee next time

[19:14] stiofain nbmcmedia: nuclearr wasteland?

[19:14] Andrew Hellershanks: is this problem confined to git master or is it seen in any of the 0.7 releases?

[19:15] Richardus Raymaker: does bigtrash makes this problem worser ?

[19:15] Richardus Raymaker: im suprised chat still works fine

[19:15] Nebadon Izumi: well even though we cant move seems people can still sit

[19:16] Richardus Raymaker: that to

[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: so i guess we'll just role with it for now

[19:16] Nebadon Izumi: be interesting to see if it comes back to life

[19:16] Richardus Raymaker: is this version haveing new clud fixes ?

[19:16] Richardus Raymaker: for now i dont see clouds

[19:16] Richardus Raymaker: hi dalhlia

[19:16] Dahlia Trimble: hi

[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya we are probably pretty close to having 100% fix on the cloud issues

[19:17] Dahlia Trimble: nothing rezzing

[19:17] Dahlia Trimble: cool

[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: but there is a lot of work to do still

[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: with improving log ins in general

[19:17] Dahlia Trimble: I just tried mesh viewer and no appearance :(

[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: i think the sim might be dead dahlia

[19:17] Richardus Raymaker: dahlia, sim still at 0fps

[19:17] Dahlia Trimble: starting to rez now

[19:17] Dahlia Trimble: cant move lol

[19:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[19:18] Nebadon Izumi: not sure why but sim seems dead

[19:18] Entering god mode, level 255

[19:18] Casias Falta: mouseing up to meeting room and siting worked for me even though i cant walk

[19:18] Dahlia Trimble: cant move at all

[19:19] Andrew Hellershanks: That is how I usually get here. Just cam to a seat and click Sit Here

[19:19] Richardus Raymaker: someone still loading inventory ?

[19:19] Casias Falta: i see kahlia now

[19:19] Casias Falta: dahlia i mean

[19:19] Andrew Hellershanks: just cleaned my trash. I went from 591 items to 313

[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: guess justin isnt coming today, must be busy

[19:20] Dahlia Trimble: who's working on appearance?

[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: it will come back Andrew

[19:20] Richardus Raymaker: !i cant empty my trash, offocrse it would be fine

[19:20] Vivienne Clary: but after relog all is back

[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: I know Mic was dahlia, probably melanie and diva a bit too maybe

[19:20] Dahlia Trimble: kk

[19:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. Trash keeps coming back? Garbage menu on strike? ;-)

[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: we have the ability to empty it disabled on osgrid

[19:20] Andrew Hellershanks: menu -> menn

[19:20] Nebadon Izumi: on purpose

[19:21] Dahlia Trimble: havent noticed appearance commits lately but will look again

[19:21] Vivienne Clary: why Nebadon?

[19:21] Andrew Hellershanks: oh

[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably hasnt been any directly in a bit dahlia

[19:21] Basil Sosides: ich mach mal relog

[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: because in an open grid if we enable it, it also allows hacker types to delete everyones inventory

[19:21] Basil Sosides: oh

[19:21] Basil Sosides: nu gehts

[19:21] Vivienne Clary: ohhhhh

[19:21] Nebadon Izumi: because inventory delete requests are made by the simulator

[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyone who runs their own simulator could potentially modify it to delete more than just trash bin

[19:22] Richardus Raymaker: ohh. thats bad

[19:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Shouldn't there be some checks in place to prevent that?

[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: so we disabled it grid wide

[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: our inventory server no longer honors delete requests of any kind

[19:22] Dahlia Trimble: interesing

[19:22] Dahlia Trimble: was there a problem?

[19:22] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[19:23] Richardus Raymaker: is that why i cant delete many times a prim form region with "delete" key on keyboard ? pie menu delete works p [erfect btw

[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: we caught it pretty quick

[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: few 100 people got whacked

[19:23] Richardus Raymaker: aah its back nebadon. the sim is alove

[19:23] Dahlia Trimble: when did it happen?

[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: about 6 months ago

[19:23] Richardus Raymaker: alive

[19:23] Vivienne Clary: we can activate it in our sim did I understand it right?

[19:23] Dahlia Trimble: oh ok I remember

[19:23] Helena Franizzi is Online

[19:23] Nebadon Izumi: no Vivienne

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: we will need to re-incorporate it in to the website again

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: we just have not had the time unfortunatly

[19:24] Vivienne Clary: sorry my english is very terrible

[19:24] Richardus Raymaker: only problem, my trash start to fill and its getting harder to find somnthing back there to

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: we will have a button on the wesbite eventually to allow you to empty your trash bin

[19:24] Vivienne Clary: ahh ok

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: right now i have about 36000 items in my inventory

[19:24] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[19:24] Dahlia Trimble: lol

[19:25] Vivienne Clary: hihihi

[19:25] Dahlia Trimble: 4108 for me

[19:25] Andrew Hellershanks: 36,000? wow

[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: oh sim is alive

[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: oh i killed it

[19:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[19:25] Dahlia Trimble: not like my SL inventory that has close to 50k

[19:25] Andrew Hellershanks: How many of those items are in your trash bin, nebadon?

[19:26] Basil Sosides: sorry, where ist the Trash.bin stored???

[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew maybe 1500

[19:26] Richardus Raymaker: i cant see my inventory right now. o counter

[19:26] Nebadon Izumi: yay im glad sim recovered eventually

[19:26] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, oh. Thats not too bad

[19:26] Richardus Raymaker: until you have 40 primitives in it and you need to find the right one

[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya i have over 3 years of things in my inventory too

[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: I probably added 5000 items in the past month

[19:27] Nebadon Izumi: im building a Sim for UCI

[19:28] Casias Falta: can anybody see my ava sorry for asking

[19:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I see you, Casias

[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: heh i think we can probably see a little too much of it Casias

[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[19:28] Dahlia Trimble: anyone want a free santa hat?

[19:28] Casias Falta: tk

[19:28] Sarah Kline: yes

[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: your naked to me

[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[19:28] Sarah Kline: default av skin

[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: i have on your hat already from last year Dahlia

[19:28] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[19:29] Nebadon Izumi: ive been wearing it all week

[19:29] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought I saw Casias.

[19:29] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, there they are

[19:29] Sarah Kline: thanks )

[19:29] Richardus Raymaker: other thing: i think teleports between latest osgrid version and older ones is a bit broken. also neighborn sims that run older version seems to be invisible inworld. anyone seen that to ?

[19:29] Dahlia Trimble whispers: yw :)

[19:29] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. Casias is the naked guy

[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: hehehe

[19:30] Casias Falta: i will try to get clothing rezed

[19:30] Nebadon Izumi: no worries, appearances have been crappy lately

[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: still lots of work to do there to get it 100% right

[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: its gotten alot better though

[19:31] stiofain nbmcmedia: lol wesee ur assias

[19:31] Casias Falta: any body got any new info on using voice since last week

[19:31] Nebadon Izumi: not much has changed Casias

[19:32] Basil Sosides: what about Emerald Viewer, is it alowed to use it in OS?

[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: i suppose though i dont recommend using anything thats not a TPV

[19:32] Richardus Raymaker: that stil exists ?

[19:32] Nebadon Izumi: approved by LL

[19:32] Casias Falta: i tried to get freeswitch working and installed and made ini changes but neither hippo or imprudence would show me an enabled voice button

[19:33] Sarah Kline: the viewer is finished

[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to use Emerald, you should be using Phoenix

[19:33] Sarah Kline: no work done since the ban

[19:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Casias, What version of code are you using?

[19:33] Basil Sosides: but my Emerald 2600 still works fine

[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are very good reasons no one should use Emerald

[19:33] Dahlia Trimble: is Phoenix allowed by LL?

[19:33] Casias Falta: most current that is in binary

[19:33] Nebadon Izumi: yes Dahlia

[19:34] Sarah Kline: so will Pheonix it runs just as sweetly as em did now

[19:34] Vivienne Clary: huhu Samira

[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory

[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: honestly if the viewer is not on this list

[19:34] Samira Samtanko: hello

[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: i do not suggest you use it

[19:34] Dahlia Trimble: I used to use emerald a lon time go but stopped long before all the controversy began. Kinda glad I stopped :)

[19:34] Nebadon Izumi: there are lots of good options on that list

[19:34] Richardus Raymaker: i dont mis emerald

[19:34] Basil Sosides: what should be bad at the Emerald?

[19:34] Dahlia Trimble: I dont either

[19:34] Sarah Kline: phoenix is now using V2 attachments

[19:35] Richardus Raymaker: nobody hasve seen Tp problems between latest osgrid and older versions ?

[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: there was a lot of controversy with Emerald

[19:35] Sarah Kline: and most of the other TPV are going V2..may be problems here

[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: they were data mining

[19:35] Nebadon Izumi: and using the Viewer to DDoS a website

[19:35] Sarah Kline: for attachments

[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: and other dramas with encrypted files that no one could decipher

[19:36] Basil Sosides: ah ok

[19:36] Sarah Kline: Emerald is old history lol

[19:36] Nebadon Izumi: viewer doing things it should not have been doing

[19:36] AEH Solo is Online

[19:36] Basil Sosides: i used the Emerald 1.5.0.2600

[19:36] Dahlia Trimble: some people may question the ethics of some of the covert features in emerald

[19:36] Basil Sosides: and its a verry good Viewer

[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: well all of the good stuff is in phoenix

[19:37] Richardus Raymaker: if you use imprudnce then emerald is not nice. also because its 32bit

[19:37] Nebadon Izumi: I still think Imprudence is a better viewer

[19:38] Basil Sosides: but Imprudence have Grafic-mistakes

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya well im not saying you have to use it by any means

[19:38] Richardus Raymaker: ? what mistake ?

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: my only suggestion is dont use anything thats not on that list

[19:38] Basil Sosides: on the Horizont

[19:38] Nebadon Izumi: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory

[19:38] Sarah Kline: stop the viewer wars lol

[19:38] Basil Sosides: in High res. Modus

[19:39] Richardus Raymaker: kirsten is a bit outdated btw. there's a linux version to

[19:39] Basil Sosides: ok lets stop about the Viewers

[19:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Interesting. I don't see Hippo on that list but I have no problem using it in SL or OS.

[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[19:39] Sarah Kline: the list is a guide

[19:39] Nebadon Izumi: Hippo is not approved

[19:39] Sarah Kline: )

[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: some history about hippo, Hippo viewer is 1 person

[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: always has been only 1 person

[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: Mana Janus

[19:40] Richardus Raymaker: i saw the grid info option works again to get all data. nice

[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: Mana made hippo viewer primarily for opensim

[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: she never intented it to be used on SL really

[19:40] Sarah Kline: it still works well

[19:40] Richardus Raymaker: explains why updates are slow :)

[19:40] Sarah Kline: on both grids ^^

[19:40] Nebadon Izumi: it will never be on the TPV, it still works ok, but ya, its pretty much a dead project

[19:41] Richardus Raymaker: still some pray to the hippo.

[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[19:41] Nebadon Izumi: i havent used hippo viewer in some time now

[19:41] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe

[19:41] Dahlia Trimble: im using it now

[19:41] Andrew Hellershanks: I will have to start taking a closer look at the copy of Imprudence I have installed

[19:41] Richardus Raymaker: a common problem is that nieuwer viewers not seems to run wel on older hardware

[19:42] Dahlia Trimble: tried logging in with mesh viewer but I wouldnt rez so I relogged with hippo

[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: wierd, ya there is something up with current outfit folder with thev 2 viewer

[19:42] Sarah Kline: will osg be compatible with these multiple attachment viewers that we will see more of

[19:42] Nebadon Izumi: you can get 100's of items in the DB in your current outfit folder

[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: i got up to like 900

[19:43] Sarah Kline: phoniex now uses same system

[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: and couldnt log in anymore

[19:43] Dahlia Trimble: can you clear mine?

[19:43] Nebadon Izumi: sure let me look see 1 sec

[19:43] Copied key for Dahlia Trimble to clipboard: 3f535668-cd80-407f-950b-998496f2799b

[19:43] Sarah Kline: i use the outfit folder in SL and its very good

[19:43] Marga String: hello together

[19:43] Richardus Raymaker: hello marge

[19:43] Sarah Kline: but i dont have so many outfits here ^^

[19:43] Richardus Raymaker: but.. any other opensim news ?

[19:44] Basil Sosides: i think OpenSim is great

[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: dahlia your ok

[19:44] Nebadon Izumi: only 14 items

[19:45] Nebadon Izumi: not even going to bother with that

[19:45] Dahlia Trimble: ty

[19:45] Casias Falta: sharp threads huh

[19:45] Dahlia Trimble: is it possible that the same mechanism which stops emptying trash may affect the current outfit folder?

[19:46] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[19:46] Nebadon Izumi: good question

[19:46] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think so

[19:46] Nebadon Izumi: have to see what melanie thinks she knows alot about inventory

[19:46] Nebadon Izumi: its possible i suppose

[19:46] Dahlia Trimble: ya I dont really know inventory at all

[19:47] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt always seem to do it though

[19:47] Nebadon Izumi: most of the time it seems to have something to do with crashing

[19:47] Basil Sosides: is the Inventory stored on the Gridserver-Databank???

[19:47] Nebadon Izumi: yes basil

[19:47] Basil Sosides: ok

[19:48] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think Ive ever been able to set my appearance with V2 on OSGrid. Works fine on my standalones tho

[19:48] Nebadon Izumi: I have

[19:48] Basil Sosides: robust.exe is handling it?

[19:48] Nebadon Izumi: with the Mesh Developer viewer

[19:48] Nebadon Izumi: 2.5 based

[19:48] Sarah Kline: me too

[19:48] Dahlia Trimble: just tried latest mesh

[19:48] Richardus Raymaker: does HG already work here or still soemthing broken ?

[19:49] Nebadon Izumi: its 1/2 working still Richardus

[19:49] Nebadon Izumi: were not quite sure what went wrong

[19:49] Nebadon Izumi: were still hunting for why HG is 1/2 working

[19:49] Casias Falta: HG is ??

[19:49] Nebadon Izumi: HyperGrid

[19:49] Casias Falta: tk

[19:49] Nebadon Izumi: Teleporting between grids and standalones

[19:49] Richardus Raymaker: ok

[19:50] Casias Falta: he he which half is working

[19:50] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[19:50] Nebadon Izumi: hey theres justin

[19:50] Nebadon Izumi: he made it

[19:50] Nebadon Izumi: hola Justin

[19:50] Justin Clark-Casey: doh, I forgot it was tuesday....

[19:51] Justin Clark-Casey: hello :)

[19:51] Nebadon Izumi: heh its ok no worries

[19:51] Sarah Kline: hi Justin

[19:51] Nebadon Izumi: the 1st 26 mintues we were frozen at 0fps

[19:51] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)

[19:51] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[19:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there a version check at the start of negotiation between regions when trying a HG TP?

[19:51] Basil Sosides: when i am on my Sim in 500m high, the Horizont flips up and down

[19:51] Justin Clark-Casey: uhhhh :)

[19:51] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: no, afaik

[19:51] Basil Sosides: but only by using Hippo or Impr.

[19:51] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin

[19:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya i also dont think there is either

[19:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Wouldn't it make sense to include version numbers in case there are incompatabilities between versions of HG?

[19:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I think Diva is thinking along those lines, but it's a complex issue

[19:52] Nebadon Izumi: sounds logical

[19:52] Nebadon Izumi: im sure evnetually it will be required infact

[19:52] Justin Clark-Casey: not only would you need protocol compatability, but you also really need compatible between things like asset serializations

[19:52] Andrew Hellershanks: It would make it easier to get a report of not being able to TP to an HG area due to version differences

[19:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I agree

[19:53] Vivienne Clary: sorry I have to go, I wish you all a fine day or a nice evening, byeee

[19:53] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: anything interesting of note today? :)

[19:53] Andrew Hellershanks: That could be part of an initial verison packet. A list of versions for HG protocol, serialization or whatever else could affect HG's

[19:53] Nebadon Izumi: see you Vivienne

[19:53] Andrew Hellershanks: bye, Vivienne

[19:53] Basil Sosides: bye Vivi

[19:53] Justin Clark-Casey: bye vivienne

[19:53] Nebadon Izumi: not really Justin, other than Logins being horrible

[19:53] Sarah Kline: bye viv

[19:53] Nebadon Izumi: and freezing the sim for 20+ minutes

[19:53] Justin Clark-Casey: yeuch

[19:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya seemed especially bad today

[19:54] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: 20+ minutes? Ouch!!

[19:54] Nebadon Izumi: also been having wierd ODE crash on windows servers

[19:54] Nebadon Izumi: very uninformative

[19:54] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm

[19:54] Nebadon Izumi: just a pop up with ok button

[19:54] Basil Sosides: what can be the reason for Grafic-mistakes at the Viewers Hippo and Impr.

[19:54] Nebadon Izumi: something about assertion or something

[19:54] Nebadon Izumi: let me remote in

[19:54] Nebadon Izumi: i'll screenshot

[19:54] Justin Clark-Casey: ok

[19:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Basil, what sort of mistakes?

[19:55] Basil Sosides: the horizont flips up and down

[19:56] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I do notice that in the windows build instructions there wasn't a --disable-asserts switch. Maybe that is an issue

[19:57] Basil Sosides: ah

[19:57] Basil Sosides: asserts?

[19:57] Justin Clark-Casey: run-time checks that the code is behaving as it should

[19:57] Basil Sosides: ok

[19:58] Basil Sosides: Phoenix do not have those mistakes

[19:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm talking about physics, rather than your particular issue, I think

[19:58] Nebadon Izumi: thats the error justin

[19:58] Nebadon Izumi: then if i hit ok the sim restarts

[19:59] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, were you running with --debug?

[19:59] Nebadon Izumi: its not mono

[19:59] Nebadon Izumi: --debug is a mono option

[20:00] Andrew Hellershanks: That header isn't in OS but is part of some external library

[20:00] Nebadon Izumi: and when i hit ok and it restarts sim there is nothing on the console

[20:00] Nebadon Izumi: just crashes to prompt

[20:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a ODE file its referencing

[20:00] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I suspect this is occurring now becuase asserts aren't off in the windows build

[20:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Problem with an assert in a header is that it might not indicate where in the code the actual assertion is being triggered

[20:01] Nebadon Izumi: is that something we can fix?

[20:01] Nebadon Izumi: the linux regions run great

[20:01] Nebadon Izumi: so far its only crashed like this on windows plazas

[20:01] Richardus Raymaker: i know someone else omplains the last time about opensim crash under windows. and i have seen it to it crash with dialog. but it keeps running

[20:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, there's no obvious premake4 option to turn them off, though

[20:02] Nebadon Izumi: was there previously?

[20:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know

[20:02] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya me either

[20:02] Justin Clark-Casey: did teravus mention anything about that for windows?

[20:02] Helena Franizzi is Offline

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: not that i remember

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: there were notes on the wiki

[20:03] Andrew Hellershanks: which version of ODE are you using, nebadon?

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: i think

[20:03] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if they should be turned off in the release dll automatically

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: 11.1 Andrew

[20:03] Richardus Raymaker: hehe

[20:03] Richardus Raymaker: 99% i use linux for opensim. so hard to say

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: 7750 Justin?

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember the # we used

[20:03] Justin Clark-Casey: r1755, which is post 0.11.1

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: ah heh man was i off

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: i knew it had 7's and 5's

[20:03] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[20:03] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll have to take a closer look at this

[20:03] Justin Clark-Casey: ho hum

[20:04] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool, its not the end of the world, means i gotta restart 2 sims once a day

[20:04] Nebadon Izumi: not sure if other people are seeing it as well

[20:04] Nebadon Izumi: i imagine the probably are though

[20:04] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... There is no line 444 in that header file.

[20:04] Justin Clark-Casey: Andrew: are you looking at r1755?

[20:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I just grabbed the source tarball for 11.1

[20:05] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's not that version

[20:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats actually much older

[20:05] Nebadon Izumi: the tarball

[20:05] Casias Falta: i am running win servers and dont seem to be getting the error you showed

[20:05] Nebadon Izumi: those guys are worse than we are

[20:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[20:05] Dahlia Trimble is Online

[20:05] Justin Clark-Casey: casias: how recent is the code that you're running?

[20:06] Casias Falta: most recent that is in bin just checked yesterday

[20:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't see how to get the svn copy of the code

[20:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ok

[20:06] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: under the develop link on the sourceforge sit

[20:06] Justin Clark-Casey: site

[20:06] Helena Franizzi is Online

[20:06] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I was at the official site. They don't provide the links there.

[20:07] Nebadon Izumi: they are burried in there some where

[20:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[20:07] Dahlia Trimble: gotta run, bye all :)

[20:07] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia, thanks for coming

[20:07] Sarah Kline: bye Dahlia

[20:07] Casias Falta: cu dahlia

[20:07] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia

[20:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia

[20:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, checking out from downloading from svn now.

[20:08] Dahlia Trimble is Offline

[20:08] Justin Clark-Casey: The asserts are turned off in linux explicitly in configure, it might just be a case of turning them off under windows

[20:08] Nebadon Izumi: ah that would be awesome

[20:08] Justin Clark-Casey: though I would have thought the release configuration might have done that

[20:08] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[20:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya i dont know much about C+

[20:09] Andrew Hellershanks: so the only reason the asserts don't trigger in Linux is because they are turned off by default?

[20:09] Justin Clark-Casey: probably

[20:09] Justin Clark-Casey: is that a bad thing? perhaps :)

[20:09] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[20:09] Nebadon Izumi: duct tape much?

[20:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Would be worth turning them on in Linux and seeing if the same asserts showup

[20:10] Basil Sosides: bye

[20:10] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Basil

[20:10] Basil Sosides: have a nice evening

[20:10] Nebadon Izumi: you too

[20:10] Casias Falta: i got to go but for the record my regions running on win are .7.1 dev

[20:10] Basil Sosides: thanks all

[20:10] Casias Falta: cu you all

[20:10] Justin Clark-Casey: not really - I remember teravus saying he explicitly disabled them since they weren't all that useful for us

[20:10] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Casias

[20:10] Justin Clark-Casey: or at least, probably not useful unless you have some knowledge of physics

[20:11] Justin Clark-Casey: bye basil, casias

[20:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think unless someone is going to be actively developing the physics it shoud remain off

[20:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, the assert is triggered from the result of a normalization operation

[20:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a shame ive not seen Teravus in a while, im sure he'll be back eventually

[20:11] Justin Clark-Casey: he's not even on irc right now

[20:12] Nebadon Izumi: he could answer the question im sure

[20:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[20:12] Nebadon Izumi: ive not seen him on IRC in a few weeks

[20:12] Nebadon Izumi: might be able to dig out his email

[20:12] Nebadon Izumi: im sure its on the -dev mail list some where

[20:12] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I don't want to bother him if we can avoid it, though

[20:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I think the error is indicating that a normalization operation returned a 0 result.

[20:13] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally we needanother physics expert but they're rather thin on the ground :)

[20:13] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya

[20:13] Nebadon Izumi: not one of those easily picked up things

[20:13] Justin Clark-Casey: no

[20:15] Andrew Hellershanks: One suggestion to make. Add an assert on the variable a passed to the function before attempting the call to normalize.

[20:15] Andrew Hellershanks: It may be that the function is getting a bad value.

[20:15] Justin Clark-Casey: Actually attempting to fix the problem will be a last resort, at least for me right now :)

[20:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya were probably passing lots of junk

[20:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[20:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Passing a bad value to the function is probably the most likely cause of the assert being triggered.

[20:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah. The assert in the header doesn't need to check a as that is done at the top of the normalize routine.

[20:18] Helena Franizzi is Offline

[20:20] Helena Franizzi is Online

[20:21] Justin Clark-Casey: looking at this, I might just end up hacking the dNODEBUG assert into their premake4 lua file

[20:21] Andrew Hellershanks: It got quiet in here all of a sudden

[20:22] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, just started to play with VS a few days ago. so C# still new

[20:23] Nebadon Izumi: heh sorry

[20:23] Nebadon Izumi: diva pinged me on IRC

[20:23] Nebadon Izumi: got distracted

[20:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, hopefully I can take a look at this later - there's a few other things I need to do first. Unless you can track down the problem to opensim, andrew, though I still think we need to disable the asserts unless someone is actively fixing physics

[20:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya i agree Justin

[20:23] Justin Clark-Casey: if that doesn't suppress the problem then we're kind of stuck

[20:24] Nebadon Izumi: it should only be on if active development was happening

[20:26] Andrew Hellershanks: VS?

[20:27] Richardus Raymaker: Visual studio 2010

[20:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, sounds fine. For production asserts should be off in both Linux and Windows.

[20:27] stiofain nbmcmedia: gotta go folks interesting eavesdropping on u hopefully some of u will get to our xmas party in belfast on sunday

[20:27] Richardus Raymaker: ok, right now the webkit :O

[20:27] Richardus Raymaker: bye stiof

[20:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been to that sim in SL

[20:28] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go. Should be on IRC later. Bye folks

[20:28] Andrew Hellershanks: or area. Maritime club. I think I have an LM for it

[20:28] Nebadon Izumi: see ya justin, thanks for coming

[20:28] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon

[20:28] Sarah Kline: byes

[20:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Hard to find out where that assert originates when it is in a header. cya, Justin.

[20:28] Justin Clark-Casey waves

[20:29] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline