Chat log from the meeting on 2011-09-13

[18:05] Gennifer Eros: Evening neb [18:05] Sarah Kline: nebs online [18:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi spike [18:05] Sarah Kline: yay [18:05] Marcus Llewellyn: When he shows up, everyone run away. [18:05] Sarah Kline: lol [18:05] Richardus Raymaker: aha hi neb [18:05] Sarah Kline: hi neb [18:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello [18:06] BlueWall Slade: Hello [18:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi neb [18:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Heya, Neb [18:06] Ralf Schlegel: hi Neb [18:06] Nebadon Izumi: hello Pathfinder [18:07] Nebadon Izumi: hello Andrew [18:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Hiyas Pathfinder, Andrew [18:07] Gennifer Eros: Hey andrew [18:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone [18:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hi andrew [18:07] dan banner: hello [18:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Gennifer. LTNS [18:07] Sarah Kline: hi [18:07]  Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [18:07] BlueWall Slade: Hi [18:07]  Pathfinder Lester: howdy folks [18:07] Mimetic Core: hey nebadon [18:07] BlueWall Slade: Hello [18:07] Gennifer Eros: Yea its been a while [18:07] Justin Clark-Casey: 23 agents [18:07] sim core: :-J [18:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Uh oh... Justin is wearing a hard hat. Is there something we should know? :-) [18:08] Golden Treasure: Hi Pathfinder:) [18:08] Gennifer Eros: Yep, the buildong is about to collapse lol [18:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I got given it :) [18:08]  Pathfinder Lester: hi Golden [18:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: The building is unstable, in more ways than one ;) [18:09] Marcus Llewellyn: I took a bath this morning. It's not me. [18:09] Richardus Raymaker: lets start with the floor [18:09] Nebadon Izumi: wierd i do not see you justin [18:09] Justin Clark-Casey: humph [18:09] Nebadon Izumi: i dont even see your name [18:09] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, at least andrew does see me [18:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm over here! [18:09] Nebadon Izumi: heh [18:09] Chris Hart: hi folks :) [18:09]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Chris [18:09]  Richardus Raymaker: My experience. opensim dont like to big cpu throttle. make things more hicky. [18:10]  BlueWall Slade: Hello [18:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi chris [18:10]  Nebadon Izumi: wierd i cant even see your name hovering in the iar Justin [18:10]  Marcus Llewellyn: Do actually *have* a AV that didn't come from a bargain bin, jcc? [18:10]  Richardus Raymaker: at least with windows [18:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: hm, I should be standing right in front of you [18:10]  Nebadon Izumi: ya nada [18:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: when I actually start customizing my avatar, you'll know the opensim is complete or dead :) [18:10] Nebadon Izumi: very odd [18:10] Andrew Hellershanks: odd. I can see Justin wearing a red shirt and black pants [18:10] Marcus Llewellyn whispers: lol!! [18:10] Gennifer Eros: I have a new issue since yesterday that I have no idea how to fix [18:10] Nebadon Izumi: huh bizzaro [18:11] Golden Treasure: hard hat and no shoes..lol [18:11] Chris Hart: lol Justin [18:11] Richardus Raymaker: what problem jennifer ? [18:11] Justin Clark-Casey: oops, good poitn about the shoes [18:11] Ralf Schlegel: I see Justin naked, except for a hard hat [18:11] Nebadon Izumi: heh [18:11] Justin Clark-Casey: oh man.... [18:11] BlueWall Slade: lol [18:11] Golden Treasure: safety first [18:11] Justin Clark-Casey tries a rebake at least [18:11] Sarah Kline: sexy [18:11] Nebadon Izumi: wow big turnout today [18:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Ralf, that is a whole other situation ;-) [18:11]  Gennifer Eros: Well since yesterday I cnat tp out of my regions without relogging and also cant see any land info, others can though [18:11]  Marcus Llewellyn: Wedge yourself in anywhere, Truth. :) [18:12] Nebadon Izumi: someone must have offered free pie [18:12] BlueWall Slade: cookies & milk [18:12] Sarah Kline: somthings up [18:12]  Golden Treasure: theres pie? [18:12] Sarah Kline: lol [18:12] Chris Hart: we experinced some strange teleport / region issues yesterday while testing hypergrid... but it afected regular and HG users equally. And it went away on its own. [18:12] Marcus Llewellyn: The pie is a lie. [18:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll take a slice of cherry, nebadon [18:12] Gennifer Eros: Anyone experience that before? [18:12] Chris Hart: one of those sorts of bugs with no discernable pattern so far [18:12] Mimetic Core: well, those donuts must be getting stale by now [18:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [18:12] Golden Treasure: what group do I join to be further notifified of meetings like this? [18:13] Gennifer Eros: My slaves of OSG group lol [18:13] Chris Hart: but so far, we haven't managed to crash the 0.7.2 rc [18:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: Golden, no need. Meeting is this time every week. [18:13] Golden Treasure: laughs [18:13] Ralf Schlegel: Golden: they are every week at the same date/time [18:13] Marcus Llewellyn: They're always at the same time, Golden. :) http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_Hours [18:13] Golden Treasure: ok great thankyou [18:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: except when daylight savings changes, which will be the usual confusion [18:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: for a couple of weeks [18:14]  Gennifer Eros: I am hoping the problem may just go away but it's not looking likely [18:14]  Andrew Hellershanks rarely TP's out of this region [18:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: gennifer. Not sure what;'s happening there [18:14]  Gennifer Eros: No justin, nor am I [18:14]  Chris Hart: I'll put in a patch for a couple of fixes to mssql either later today or tomorrow to mantis [18:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks chris. MSSQL fails 6 unit tests at the moment, according to randomhuman [18:15]  Chris Hart: oh super :) [18:15] sim core: :-) [18:15]  Chris Hart: I'll see what I can do there too... [18:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: they might pick up problems. I'm assuming they're not test weaknesses since they pass on sqlite/mysql [18:16]  Chris Hart: good to know [18:16]  Gennifer Eros: I have never seen it before and the only changes made were to my local lan [18:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: gennifer: does sound like it might be a network issue of some kind then [18:16]  dan banner: nat can cause all sorts of problems [18:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: as I believe land stuff is in a php module, and ip would affect teleport [18:16]  Gennifer Eros: All that changed was my local IP [18:17]  Chris Hart: land doesn't rely on php - you can do parcel sales for 0 without using external modules [18:17]  Gennifer Eros: And my regions are on a server in another country [18:17]  Richardus Raymaker: and other settimngs in routers to, lik DoS protection, firewall, and more [18:17] Justin Clark-Casey: true. I guess it depends on whether you are using such a module or not [18:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought you still needed the landtool.php script to be available. [18:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Or is that no longer the case with 0.7? [18:18] Chris Hart: afaik, we've never used it [18:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: I thin kit is possible to do $0 land sales without it [18:18]  Gennifer Eros: Yes I still sell land a 0 [18:18] Gennifer Eros: at* [18:18] Nebadon Izumi: you can point the helperuri to your URL+HTTP PORT [18:18] Chris Hart: 0.6.9 and tested this morning with Pathfinder on 0.7.2 - just needs the right settings in helperuri [18:18] Chris Hart: as he said [18:18] Nebadon Izumi: like http://mysimurl.com:9000 [18:19] Gennifer Eros: I have a question unrelated to OSG if I may ask it? [18:19] Nebadon Izumi: either needs the helper php or point to your sims IP/URL:HTTP_PORT [18:19] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, $0 land sales may not need it. Non-zero ones might. What URL to use for helpuri in grid mode. [18:19] Justin Clark-Casey: geninifer: if it's still about opensim, sure. [18:19] Justin Clark-Casey: This is effectively a joint dev meeting [18:19] Gennifer Eros: Sure it is [18:19]  Nebadon Izumi: well in grid mode it would make sense to use the helper php [18:21] Nebadon Izumi: example helper.php : http://pastebin.com/M2HtUthq [18:21] Gennifer Eros: I have a problem with running my grid, it falls over trying to connect to a wrong IP address it seems, an internal one, I have checked every ini and the IP it falls over trying to tlak to is not in any of them [18:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I so love networking issues [18:21] Chris Hart: lol [18:21] Gennifer Eros: Me as well and I used to be a network engineer lol [18:22] Justin Clark-Casey: what ip address does it try to connect to? [18:22] Golden Treasure: I haven't a clue of what your talking about.. I just build stuff..laughs [18:22] Richardus Raymaker: you use ip adresses or some domain name ? [18:22] Gennifer Eros: One of the local lan servers [18:22] Golden Treasure: so I'll stay out of the kitchen [18:22] Gennifer Eros: .1.2 [18:22] Justin Clark-Casey: it must be in one of your config files somewhere [18:22] Justin Clark-Casey: but didn't you say your regions are hosted elswhere? [18:23] Gennifer Eros: For local addy the local ip, for the other one a domain name [18:23] Richardus Raymaker: and the domain one fails right ? [18:23] Gennifer Eros: Yes and I have root access to that server [18:23] Justin Clark-Casey: so you still run them yourself, not via a provider? [18:23] Gennifer Eros: Yes I run them myself [18:23] Justin Clark-Casey: and you're saying those remote servers try to connect to a reserved local lan ip? [18:24] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon: k, ty. Saved that in case I don't already have it. [18:24] Gennifer Eros: I think I may know what the problem is but no one can confirm it [18:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: such is the way of the tao [18:25] Marcus Llewellyn: I have a feature enhancement idea to throw at the floor, if nobody objects. :) [18:25] Gennifer Eros: So can someone tell me, does opensim NEED port 9000 or if told will it use another port [18:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: it will use another port [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: you can use any port [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: as long as its not already being used [18:25]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [18:25]  Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [18:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Hiya, Dahlia. [18:26] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [18:26] star lord: hiya [18:26] Richardus Raymaker: No gennifer. but check a port list to find a free block. [18:26] star lord: just stuck here lols [18:26] Ralf Schlegel: and ports below 1024 are reserved for the root user though [18:26] Gennifer Eros: That was my understanding, I have 2 servers, one that runs my regions here and the other to run robust and my grid [18:26] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [18:27] Richardus Raymaker: dahlia where you the one that saw a fast,slow,fast movememnt inworld ? [18:27] Gennifer Eros: I set port 9600 for the opensim.ini [18:27] dan banner: i'm still seeing troubles with tp lure [18:27] Dahlia Trimble: fast slow fast? [18:27] Gennifer Eros: Hello dahlia [18:27] Richardus Raymaker: other word for sort of hicks [18:27] dan banner: im hoping its just older sims or people without HG enabled [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: Gennifer this meeting is not really for technical support [18:27] Dahlia Trimble: I dont understand [18:27] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest connecting to IRC channel [18:27] Richardus Raymaker: dan, you dont enable HG on all regions. thats not smart. [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: then we can look at your configs etc.. [18:28] dan banner: i have it enabled rich [18:28] Nebadon Izumi: this meeting is more for development / bug discussion [18:28] Dahlia Trimble: I did a few commits a while back that play around with avatar velocity if thats what you mean [18:28] Richardus Raymaker: i have it only on 1 region. thats central start point. dont want all the jump etc. everywhere [18:28] Gennifer Eros: Ok neb, I have tried there but its not easy in my timezone [18:29] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a question about the database tables in OS. Any idea what estate_groups is for (if it is used at all)? [18:29] Gennifer Eros: lol, dont start me on estates andrew :) [18:29]  Richardus Raymaker: estate group ? thats not the estate manager list ? [18:29]  Andrew Hellershanks: :-) [18:30] Nebadon Izumi: hmm i am not sure [18:30] star lord: heya Nebadon, I lurk at your tweets all the time, love your scripting vids on YouTube. Everything still downloading here no movement yet [18:30] Andrew Hellershanks: No, estate_groups is a separate table from estate_manager but it looks similar. [18:30] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem populated on my sims [18:30] Marcus Llewellyn: I"m curious about whether it would be possible to introduce the ability to allow fine grained control over which users in a sim have access to certain functionality. Examples include who could use C# or LSL, and who had access to which levels of osFunctions. Right now it's everyone or no one. [18:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: Wasn't sure if its obsolete or part of an as yet unimplemented new feature [18:30]  Chris Hart: justin, I had a question on the 0.7.2 plans and the issue with viewer 2 avatars - is it that new accounts appear as clouds until they wear some clothes? [18:30]  OtakuMegane Desu: It's been there for ages far as I know [18:30]  Nebadon Izumi: it might have something to do with if your running all your estates from a central database [18:31]  OtakuMegane Desu: Nothing in any of mine either [18:31]  Nebadon Izumi: if you have multiple Regions in the same estate [18:31] Nebadon Izumi: that would be my guess [18:31] Chris Hart: would they appear as ruth to people on other clients, or would they be "unclothed" [18:31] dan banner: marcus you can specify uuid's that have access to ossl functions [18:31] Gennifer Eros: All new AV's seem to appear as clouds [18:31] Marcus Llewellyn: That I did not know, dan. Is that documented somewhere? [18:31] dan banner: yup [18:31] Justin Clark-Casey: my xorg locked up [18:31]  Chris Hart: clouds I can live with [18:32] Andrew Hellershanks prefers his clouds in the sky [18:32] Marcus Llewellyn: It would be nice if that functionality was extended to allow scripting languages as well. [18:32] Gennifer Eros: As do I [18:32]  Chris Hart: can even live with ruth, but would be unhappy with naked avatars [18:32] Ralf Schlegel: Naked Ruths? [18:32] Richardus Raymaker: justin on linux. ohh [18:33] Justin Clark-Casey: now I'm logged in fromwindows [18:33] Justin Clark-Casey: top [18:33] Gennifer Eros: Are there any plans to offer a different default AV, or is that not possible? [18:33] Nebadon Izumi: well atleast I can see you now Justin [18:33] Richardus Raymaker: try to row to the windows side... [18:33]  Marcus Llewellyn: I was also thinking of something that wasn't *that* fine grain. Maybe something that had categories of users... owners, estate managers, everyone. [18:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Gennifer, it can be handled via an external avatar creation process [18:34] BlueWall Slade: looks like the estate_groups is for group access on the estate level [18:34] Gennifer Eros: Yes I know it can, what I asked was is it planned for here? [18:34] Gennifer Eros: As in in OSG [18:34] dan banner: its done externally gennifer [18:34] Entering god mode, level 255 [18:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Blue, ok, ty [18:34]  Richardus Raymaker: how is HG IM goinbg in 2 directions ? seems still broke in some cases [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya there is group access [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: i do not think that was ever implemented though [18:35] Nebadon Izumi: guess its just a place holder in the DB for now [18:35] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I can update that on the wiki page. [18:35] BlueWall Slade: it's in Scene.cs:3637 [18:36] BlueWall Slade: maybe the flotsam groups doesn't touch it though [18:36] Chris Hart: Ricardus - we had mixed results on HG IM yesterday but I messed up a config, so we shall test that again. we did have mixed results too. [18:36] Nebadon Izumi: it would seem like all it would need to do is store the group UUID [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: but i suspect because there is no real group code directly in core, perhaps that is why it never worked [18:37] Nebadon Izumi: would be a nice feature though [18:37] Dahlia Trimble: theres some IM code in core [18:37] Dahlia Trimble: for groups [18:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably should ask Melanie, she did alot of the Estate stuff [18:38] BlueWall Slade: yeah, part of the flotsam stuff is in core [18:38] Gennifer Eros: Hello kulu [18:38] Nebadon Izumi: i would think it just stores the group UUID [18:39] Nebadon Izumi: i guess the user look up part might get complicated though [18:39] Nebadon Izumi: retreiving a list of uuids [18:39] BlueWall Slade: we send it to the client [18:39] Nebadon Izumi: maybe that part is missing from flotsam groups [18:40] Justin Clark-Casey: well, you know, by the look of it estate groups is hooked up [18:40]  Nebadon Izumi: hmm [18:40] Nebadon Izumi: it seems greyed out in Estate panel [18:40] Justin Clark-Casey: whether it's done correctly is noather mater [18:41] Nebadon Izumi: i am afraid to test it right now [18:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol [18:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be some message not sent to viewer or not responded to by OS. [18:41] Gennifer Eros: lol [18:41] Nebadon Izumi: my luck id kick everyone out or something [18:41] Chris Hart: lol [18:41] Ralf Schlegel: A little tangent here, but is roadmap for opensim to bring more of the 3rd party functions into the core services? Like groups, searches, etc? [18:41] Marcus Llewellyn: We have a roadmap?? :) [18:41] Gennifer Eros: lool [18:41]  Nebadon Izumi: Ralf its actually been the opposite really [18:41]  Nebadon Izumi: the goal was to move more things out of core [18:41]  Gennifer Eros: We lost the route a long time ago though lol [18:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, it looks like there's som confusion. Some code appears to add user ids to the estate groups while other parts look for group ids [18:42]  Gennifer Eros: Just kidding [18:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: urgh [18:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: ralf: I'm reluctant to see that happens, since core is big enough as it is and there are too few developers for what we have [18:42]  Andrew Hellershanks: Ralf, there has been talk about making groups, search, and profile as some kind of module that doesn't require use of supporting PHP code on a website [18:42]  BlueWall Slade: I see nothing in the php side of "The Force" [18:42]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [18:42] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle, there's nothing to stop some kind of third party distro from bundling all that together [18:43] Chris Hart: Andrew: that would be nice [18:43] Justin Clark-Casey: which was always the implicit pattern. Just there isn't enough willing manpower out there to do it yet [18:43] Chris Hart: loss of profile means I need to do more work or install php on all my servers [18:43] Ralf Schlegel: Even if removed out of core binary -- what about having official OpenSim branded/bundled versions of the functions with the ability to swap them with alternatives [18:43] Chris Hart: I'd rather do more work [18:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Chris, one of these years I'm going to finish of osprofile then I can start thinking about making those things in to standalone modules. [18:43] Chris Hart: I'd rather not do either :) [18:43]  Gennifer Eros: I would if I could but I am afraid I dont have the skills needed [18:43]  Dahlia Trimble: the idea for services is to have them be separate add on  modules, hence the work that happened defining all the services interfaces [18:44]  Ralf Schlegel: part of the ROBUST restructuring? [18:44]  Dahlia Trimble: ya [18:44]  Marcus Llewellyn: Correct me if I'm wrong. :) I think the idea is that OpenSimulator is a reference implemntation, or at most a foundation on which to build VWs. It isn't actually meant, in it's vanilla form, to be ready out of the box. Rather, it's expected that people will take the base, and build on top of it, customizing for profiles, groups, currency, etc. [18:44] Nebadon Izumi: thats pretty much correct Marcus [18:44] Richardus Raymaker: i get sometimes spontanic logouts. sometimes aftyer teleport [18:44] Chris Hart: this is true, but equally a lot of work goes into keeping up with the lindens [18:44] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle, but it de facto becomes runnable out of the box [18:44] Dahlia Trimble: its not really a reference implementation of anything, more a foundation [18:44] Justin Clark-Casey: not having it runnable doesn't give enough motivatio nto maintain it [18:44]  Nebadon Izumi: the fact that the only option right now is SL style VW is only becasue there are no real other viable viewers yet [18:45] Nebadon Izumi: the goal of opensimulator is not really to just be a SL simulator [18:45] Justin Clark-Casey: a viewer is a ton of work, even more so than the server [18:45] Dahlia Trimble coughs [18:45] Chris Hart: I personaly have no need for multiple attachments on a single point, but because the lindens made it work, it pushes opensim to do that too [18:45] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd opine that's it's simply to big a beast to be simply a reference implemntation, myself. [18:45] BlueWall Slade: hehe Dahlia [18:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, yeah, that is the theory but people try and use it out of the box anyway and/or expect it to have a given feature set as is. [18:45] Justin Clark-Casey: chris: yes [18:45] Nebadon Izumi: heh well by viable i mean one that anyone can just setup and use [18:45] Nebadon Izumi: not that there is not other viewers in the works [18:45] Chris Hart: pesky viewers [18:45] Dahlia Trimble: I'm using a viewer I wrote from scratch right now lol [18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: setting up and running a vw is incredibly complicated. [18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: let alone scaling it [18:46]  Gennifer Eros: Yes and whilst it can be used out of the box it still requires some trchnical savvy [18:46] Richardus Raymaker: especially the network side [18:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Grid code such as Aurora will give ideas on what can be done differently from SL. I think I read that they can handle different region sizes [18:46] Gennifer Eros: Yes [18:46] Marcus Llewellyn: Is there still work being done on Idealist? [18:46] Justin Clark-Casey: and I think that will always be the case. It's exponentially more complicated than a web server, for instance [18:46] Gennifer Eros: Oh god yes [18:46] Dahlia Trimble: no Idealist is pretty much dead [18:47] BlueWall Slade: heh, what's this one? Realist? [18:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I think different approaches to this problem are great [18:47] Marcus Llewellyn nod affably. [18:47] Dahlia Trimble: lol [18:47] Gennifer Eros: Well thats why we have these meetings is it not justin? [18:47] Justin Clark-Casey: but we also need some kind of stability [18:47] Marcus Llewellyn: Latif's Radegast 3D view is getting very, very interesting. [18:47] Dahlia Trimble: this one is "ok I messed up this way on my last 4 tries..." [18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: and even so it's pretty damn flaky [18:48] Justin Clark-Casey: gennifer: yes, discussion [18:48] Pathfinder Lester: in my opinion, the best way to scale a grid is to get rid of the idea of a huge monolithic grid in the first place. interconnect smaller grids via hypergrid. so hypergrid connectivity is, in my opinion, critical to any kind of future opensim-based metaverse that is global in scale. [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: any progress on Sculpty loading yet Dahlia? [18:48] vidK Pro is Online [18:48] Gennifer Eros: And perhaps new ideas, new directions [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: the only thing i dont like about hypergrid [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: is you need to remember 1000 URLs [18:48] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Neb [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: or have a giant monolothic database of URLs [18:48] Chris Hart: lol [18:48] vidK Pro is Offline [18:48] Nebadon Izumi: that no one maintains [18:48] BlueWall Slade: we need to addresss that someday [18:48] Chris Hart: and guess whether they are in range [18:49] BlueWall Slade: + a few other things [18:49] Chris Hart: and hope they are running on that day [18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: pathfinder: I agree - that way you avoid some of the scaling problems. But at the moment hypergrid is being built over a protocol that simply wasn't designed for it data or security wise [18:49] Chris Hart: and that you are on a compatible version [18:49] BlueWall Slade: but, HG is the way to go, I think [18:49] Gennifer Eros is not a big fan of HG [18:49]  Dahlia Trimble: well Nebadon looks like 977 unique sculpt maps in WP right now... [18:49]  Sarah Kline: might we have HG LMs? [18:49] Nebadon Izumi: i think no matter how you spin it, there ends up being a gigant monolithic database of information [18:49] Richardus Raymaker: Im gettying more intressted in HG [18:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's an LM? [18:49]  Andrew Hellershanks: If you HG tp to external grid then HG TP back to ones starting point, is it smart enough to drop the first HG connection or have you now got two HG TP's stacked up? [18:49] Gennifer Eros: I have never even managed to make an hg jump [18:49] Justin Clark-Casey: what's an LM, I mean [18:50] Nebadon Izumi: landmark [18:50] Richardus Raymaker: you only get the same problem as with webpages. you never find all [18:50] Sarah Kline: Land Mark [18:50] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle it's implemented. But all that code is experimental [18:50] Dahlia Trimble: oops make that 989, someone just teleported in wearing sculpties [18:50] Richardus Raymaker: LM, a pretty useless pice that only filles your inventory with more trash. :O [18:50] Richardus Raymaker: better use slurls [18:50] Nebadon Izumi: heh [18:50] Marcus Llewellyn: I adore the *idea* of HG. But what we have right now is far from ideal. [18:50] Nebadon Izumi: did you get them rezzing though in your viewer yet Dahlia? [18:50] dan banner: itried to memorize all the HG slurls [18:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Add a picture and/or optoinal text to a slurl and you have an LM :-) [18:51]  Sarah Kline: yes and you have to remember them [18:51]  Dahlia Trimble: no just got them downloading last night [18:51]  Nebadon Izumi: ah cool [18:51]  Nebadon Izumi: a start [18:51]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [18:51]  Deana Later is Offline [18:51]  Andrew Hellershanks: what's the problem with sculpty loading? [18:51]  Pathfinder Lester: Gennifer, most of my time in Opensim is spent HG jumping. Email me and I'd be happy to help. pathfinder@reactiongrid.com [18:51]  Nebadon Izumi: but ya, its one thing once you have a list of URLS already [18:51]  BlueWall Slade: what is that one written in Dahlia? [18:51]  Andrew Hellershanks sighs... cat is calling. [18:51]  Nebadon Izumi: but the trick is how do you initially get them [18:51]  Nebadon Izumi: the only way i can think is to have some massive central database of locations [18:52] Dahlia Trimble: this one is all c++ but it uses libomv via a socket connection [18:52] Justin Clark-Casey wonders if andrew owns the cat or the cat owns andrew [18:52] Gennifer Eros: Ok pathfinder [18:52] Andrew Hellershanks thinks its the latter [18:52] dan banner: or maybe someone make a website that people can register HG regions... [18:52] Nebadon Izumi: but from my experience all the attempts at that dont work well, because you have to wade through 10 dead regions just to find 1 good one [18:52] Richardus Raymaker: oh justin, i still get sometimes the sculpt squares around a sculpt. its what you say some fight at startup what i think [18:52] Nebadon Izumi: dan banner that only works for so long [18:52] Sarah Kline: there are some [18:52] dan banner: ya [18:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: one really needs code to detect bad regions. [18:52] Marcus Llewellyn: Not to mention the people *still* on 0.6.9 and HG1 [18:52] Gennifer Eros: I have a question first though pathfinder, are you pathfinder linden from sl? [18:52] Nebadon Izumi: before every region you try is down [18:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I had to fight with the cat for my chair yesterday. I put him on another chair. When I turned around to sit down on my chair, the cat ran over and jumped on it before I could sit down again. [18:52] Gennifer Eros: :) [18:53]  Truth Sigh: Are the DB's being used right now relational only, like MS SQL, sqlite, etc? Any thought to using documented oriented DBs and systems like elastic search? [18:53]  BlueWall Slade: it should be built into the landmark [18:53]  Sarah Kline: lol at andrew [18:53]  Nebadon Izumi: right now the only options are MySQL, MSSQL and SQlite [18:53]  Pathfinder Lester: Gennifer, yes. [18:53]  Marcus Llewellyn: Only SQLite, MySQL, and MSSQL are currently supported, Truth. [18:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: Truth: They might be a better approach. But nobody is looking at that stuff right now [18:53]  Truth Sigh: understood, just putting it out there [18:53]  Ralf Schlegel: there was an object database used a LONG LONG time ago, but didn't last long [18:54]  BlueWall Slade: we don't really use many relational aspects [18:54]  Dahlia Trimble: I agree with Pathfinder about the many small grids thing, but Ive seen a lot of hesitation in many grids joining up with Hypergrid [18:54] BlueWall Slade: or force keys, at least [18:54] Marcus Llewellyn: They've had a lil more time to mature... someone might get interested in looking at it again at some point, hopefully. [18:54] Justin Clark-Casey: existing db use is probably pretty stupid [18:54] Truth Sigh: I've been looking for a serverless object db for a while mongoDB +sqlite, but haven't find one yet [18:54] Justin Clark-Casey: but it has the advantage of working [18:54] Truth Sigh: using perl 's Storable [18:54] Truth Sigh: : [ [18:54] Nebadon Izumi: I dont disagree with having more grids in HG [18:55]  BlueWall Slade: merchants don't like the HG too much [18:55] Nebadon Izumi: for me though it seems like a lot more work getting people to find you [18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: the problem atm is diva isn't around to deal with hg stuff [18:55] Nebadon Izumi: seems like a big downside [18:55] BlueWall Slade: it's so easy to kacj perms if you can get an item onto a personal region. [18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: very busy preparing as general chair of a big conference I think, and academic work [18:55] Marcus Llewellyn: I regard HG as a fun experiment at this point. It's fun, it's often useful. But it's not dependable. [18:55] BlueWall Slade: *hack* [18:55] Dahlia Trimble: anyway SL and OSGrid are the only grids I use [18:55] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: I think that's a good attitude - though it does stir a lot of interest in people [18:56] Justin Clark-Casey: or at least, it seems so from inside our tiny bubble :) [18:56]  Gennifer Eros: lol justin [18:56]  Richardus Raymaker: Mracus. its usefull. its a nice home that still works when the other is down. and always nice view. no fights about coordinates :) [18:56] Ralf Schlegel: we need a larger bubbler [18:56] Marcus Llewellyn: I've been interested in HG for ages. I only just setup my first HG sim yesterday, though. I kept waiting for it to kinda stabilize... and then realized that if I kept waiting, the universe might die from heat death. [18:56] Pathfinder Lester: need interconnected bubbles. ;) [18:57] Justin Clark-Casey: ha [18:57]  dan banner: HG and NPC seem to get a lot of attention [18:57]  Andrew Hellershanks: There is a concern about HG if you are making/selling stuff. [18:57]  Marcus Llewellyn: Mesh is up there for me. [18:57]  Nebadon Izumi: well honestly [18:57]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not surprised [18:57]  Nebadon Izumi: for HG to work right [18:57]  dan banner: everyone wants HG regions with bots [18:57]  Pathfinder Lester: the time to think about strategic planning around global scaling is at the beginning of a project. which is why I tend to rant about this *now*...as opposed to saying "I hope you guys fix that way in the future." ;) [18:57] Nebadon Izumi: we need to never use the LL based viewers ever again [18:57] Gennifer Eros: Well selling here does not exist exept for free lol [18:57] Richardus Raymaker: bots. thats just the most dump thing.. [18:57] Nebadon Izumi: HG is never going to work right if we continue to use the LL viewer [18:57] Richardus Raymaker: bah. its not sl [18:57] Chris Hart: lol neb - I like that [18:57] dan banner: ya mesh s/will be great [18:58] Justin Clark-Casey: pathfinder: I think global scaling requires an architectural changes that the viewer would have to parcipate in [18:58]  Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Neb. LL viewer base is a ball and chain. [18:58] dan banner: better mesh viewers will make a difference [18:58] Nebadon Izumi: it will forever be a hack [18:58] Nebadon Izumi: if LL viewer is the only option [18:58] Chris Hart: experience yesterday in testing is that HG is better on 0.7.2 than on 0.6.9 by a considerable margin [18:58] Pathfinder Lester: Neb, i agree! [18:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya it has improved a great deal [18:58] Nebadon Izumi: but its still hackish [18:58] BlueWall Slade: donate cookies and milk to Dahlia :) [18:58]  Gennifer Eros: The only non ll mesh viewer I know of is the singularity [18:58]  Chris Hart: I now have a roaming son cluttering up grids with prims, not just his own - parental controls for HG? [18:59]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's a huge distributed computing problem [18:59]  Nebadon Izumi: Singularity is 99% LL viewer [18:59]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [18:59]  Nebadon Izumi: just like all the TPV's [18:59]  Gennifer Eros: Really? [18:59]  Nebadon Izumi: they are 99.9% LL code [18:59]  Nebadon Izumi: yes [18:59]  Gennifer Eros: Damn [18:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder if there should be an extra perm flag for objects. It would state if item can be carried on HG to another grid [18:59]  Marcus Llewellyn: Designing new protocols is (relatively) easy. The hard part, from what I can tell from sitting in the sidelines, is a robust and feature filled renderer to hook up to protocol plumbing. [18:59] Richardus Raymaker: would be nice. but how to get that in the viewer [18:59] Chris Hart: there are security bits in there you can enable [18:59] Nebadon Izumi: and even the Non LL viewers all use the LL protocols [18:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I think Maria was talking about some proposal [18:59] Nebadon Izumi: to fix the HG issues we need 100% new protocols [18:59] Chris Hart: I have found it somewhat tricky to figure out what to set and where [18:59] Justin Clark-Casey: but I simply don't have enough time to scan all the informatio nnowadays [18:59] Sarah Kline: its a bit like trying to reinvent an internet browser though [19:00] Gennifer Eros: Well yes neb, I knew that [19:00] Chris Hart: but I did find that 0.7.1.1 would just never let me even log in to a grid with HG enabled, but with very similar config files I was fine on 0.7.2, so the changes made in the time in the interim worked... [19:00] Richardus Raymaker: internet browser dont have any permission at all [19:00] Clairwil Oh: seems like there would be a small group of viewer coders by now who were dedicatd to making a custom viewer that would develop in harmony with whatever direction osgrid does in, code/feature wise. [19:00] Dahlia Trimble: designing a new protocol is easy, but designing a robust one isnt [19:00] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [19:00]  Marcus Llewellyn: Is there any particular reason we've never embraced Naali? [19:01] Justin Clark-Casey: I think such a viewer really needs a revenue model [19:01] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, probably why the AUrora crowd has come up with their own protocol for jumping between grids. [19:01] Gennifer Eros: Naali? [19:01] Nebadon Izumi: Getting Naali working is not so easy from my experience [19:01] Justin Clark-Casey: it's difficult to see anybody selling a viewer, as netscape used to sell their browser [19:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Naali is a viewer created by realXtend. [19:01] Gennifer Eros: Ah ok [19:01]  Dahlia Trimble: Naali is off and running in their own direction [19:01] Andrew Hellershanks: So many viewers these days [19:01] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [19:02] Marcus Llewellyn: They've never seemed to excel at coordination with core. But there's nothing stopping core from contributing to, and therefor helping to shape something like Naali, is there? [19:02] BlueWall Slade: I think it was almost like Blender with navigation features [19:02] Nebadon Izumi: for a viewer to be successfuly everyone needs to be able to make it work [19:02] Nebadon Izumi: unforunatley, Naali is not that creature [19:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm trying to cut down on how many I have. I may drop Hippo soon and stick with Imprudence when I'm not in SL. [19:02] Sarah Kline: big learning curve then [19:02] Nebadon Izumi: id be suprised if 1 in 20 people can make it do anything [19:03] Nebadon Izumi: i sure have not been able to [19:03]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [19:03] Mimetic Core: lol [19:03] Gennifer Eros: I dropped hippo months ago andrew [19:03] BlueWall Slade: I like the flexability in the avatars though [19:03] Richardus Raymaker: still use it. its for osgrid nice 2e one. [19:03] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think high-level functioning with OpenSim is a goal of Naali [19:03] Marcus Llewellyn: You can do quite a bit with Naali. You just can't do it with vanilla OpenSim. [19:03] Nebadon Izumi: Unity stuff is cool, but lack of Linux is still a big turn off to me [19:03]  Dahlia Trimble: they spend a lot of time developing their own servers [19:04] Richardus Raymaker: unity ? the ubuntu crap ? to say it nice.. [19:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I was still adjusting to where certain things are in Imprudence but the new 1.4 beta 1 fixed some things which make it nicer as my default viewer [19:04] Justin Clark-Casey: if unity render to flash that might change things a bit [19:04] Nebadon Izumi: no [19:04]  Nebadon Izumi: Unity3D Richardus [19:04] Richardus Raymaker: pfff.. ok. [19:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya that should make things interesting [19:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I got rid of Unity within a couple hours of first seeing it when I updated to Ubuntu 11.04 [19:04] Richardus Raymaker: that looked good yes. [19:04] Marcus Llewellyn: My biggest problem with Unity w/re OpenSim is that it's closed source. [19:04] The Pixel: Can I ask wear you got that hair please Dutchy? [19:04] The Pixel: where* [19:04] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya from what i hear Unity made a big mistake using Unity Desktop [19:04] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew thats long a couple of hours [19:04] Nebadon Izumi: big revolt [19:05] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think something like unity3d is designed for dynamic streaming content [19:05] Nebadon Izumi: Ubuntu that is* [19:05] Dahlia Trimble: the problem with alternate viewers is there is so much content out there that exploits the LL renderer [19:05] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, yes closed source with opensim dont work good. [19:05] Richardus Raymaker: then we have the same problem as with LL viewer [19:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, was probably most of the time needed for the Ubuntu updates to download/install :-) [19:05]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Misterblue [19:05]  Sarah Kline: and would we still build with prims like SL [19:05]  Nebadon Izumi: seriously someone promised pie didnt they.. whole world showed up today! [19:05]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [19:05]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I wanted to at least take a bit of a look at it. [19:05]  Dahlia Trimble: lol [19:05]  BlueWall Slade: maybe the new mesh is a bridge, of sorts, to something different? [19:06]  Gennifer Eros: I want chocolate [19:06]  Chris Hart: gotta fly - catch you later folks! [19:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi misterblue [19:06]  Dahlia Trimble: hiya MisterBlue [19:06]  Nebadon Izumi: see ya Chris [19:06]  BlueWall Slade: bye Chris [19:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunatley I lost the log when my x windows crashed [19:06] Sarah Kline: this is the busiest meeting i have been to [19:06]  Nebadon Izumi: good luck with the upgrades [19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: bye chris [19:06] Gennifer Eros: And strawberries :) [19:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: bbiab [19:06]  Richardus Raymaker: still love the good old prims to, it make things easy [19:06]  Dahlia Trimble: cya Chris :) [19:06] Nebadon Izumi: i have the log Justin [19:06] Misterblue Waves: hi all [19:06] Marcus Llewellyn: To be blunt, borken content is a LL worry. It shouldn't be an OpenSim worry. OpenSim has made it clear that it is alpha, that things will break. ANyone who had ignored that is just asking for it. [19:06] Sarah Kline: byes [19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: cool. Could you post it on the wiki afterwards? [19:06] Sarah Kline: long log [19:06] BlueWall Slade: Hi MrBlue [19:06] Notecard saved [19:06] Justin Clark-Casey: the thing is, opensim has to aspire to stability to get people to invest in the area [19:07] Nebadon Izumi: sure i can post it [19:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: don't want to be alpha forever :) [19:07]  Sarah Kline: we are a long way from alpha now [19:07]  Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer. [19:07]  Nebadon Izumi: i just sent you notecard too [19:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: cool, thanks [19:07]  BlueWall Slade: we need to be the Alpha Dog! [19:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: oh yeah, pre-alpha ;) [19:07] Gennifer Eros: I agree sarah [19:07] Sarah Kline: would mean all this content here would poof [19:07] Nebadon Izumi: heh [19:07] Nebadon Izumi: OmegaVerse [19:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [19:07] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think the prim stuff will ever go away [19:07] Nebadon Izumi: the last Metaverse you'll ever need!! [19:07] Sarah Kline: ) [19:08]  Dahlia Trimble: I like prims :) [19:08] Justin Clark-Casey: so something radically better might require a new design. But for anyone to invest that money you have to deminstrate that there's some kind of return [19:08] Justin Clark-Casey: which means trying to grow what we've got [19:08] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, you can still do some interesting things with them. [19:08] Gennifer Eros: I love my prims, you bullies leave em alone lol [19:08] Nebadon Izumi: ive been messing with WebGL a bit [19:08] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.onikenkon.com/webgl [19:08] Nebadon Izumi: shame webgl is such a nightmare [19:08] Nebadon Izumi: seems like the only web browser it works well with is Chrome [19:09] Richardus Raymaker: if people have already problems to use a prim... thewn dont talk about mesh... [19:09] Nebadon Izumi: it kind of sucks in Firefox still [19:09] Marcus Llewellyn: We'll never be able to claim any sort of stability while we're still shuffling things like module APIs od database contents around. [19:09] Dahlia Trimble: black screen neb [19:09] BlueWall Slade: lol, I've been having to work in JavaScript x.x [19:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: works quite well with firefox for me [19:09]  Dahlia Trimble: oh there it goes [19:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya it takes a minute to load the model [19:09] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: stll pulling down network data [19:09] Justin Clark-Casey nods [19:09] Nebadon Izumi: seems like the only web browser that supports antialiasing is Chrome [19:09] Richardus Raymaker: webgl the google demo works fine here. but i disabled it [19:09] Nebadon Izumi: firefox has no support yet [19:10] Dahlia Trimble: cool :) [19:10]  Dahlia Trimble: I see it on FF [19:10]  Sarah Kline: thats nice [19:10]  Gennifer Eros: Yes I just found that out lol [19:10]  Dahlia Trimble: its rotating your logo [19:10]  Sarah Kline: its working in my firefox [19:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: works fine in firefox for me [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi: they are raw collada files though [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi: which is nice [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi: oh it works Justin [19:10]  Gennifer Eros: Dont work for me [19:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi: it will just be super jagged [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi: compare it to Chrome [19:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: smooth for me [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi: in chrome its awesome [19:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: but I do have quite a good gfx card [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi: huh [19:10]  BlueWall Slade: lol [19:10]  Nebadon Izumi whispers: ya it looks terrible to me in FF [19:10]  Dahlia Trimble: smooth for me [19:10]  Misterblue Waves: I've found that there are way too many objects to display that the WebGL frame rate is low for OpenSim display [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: interesting [19:11] Dahlia Trimble: its eating a whole core tho [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya my video card needs to go to the dumpster i think [19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: misterblue: ah, you've been experimenting in that direction? [19:11] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, That webgl stuff is kind of cool. I thought it wasn't working with FF in LInux but finally saw the logo show up. [19:11] Richardus Raymaker: btw, sometimes you need to smack firefox a bit. because it blacklist webgl if it thinks you have wrong videodriver [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya webgl is pretty far from optimized [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [19:11] Misterblue Waves: webgl is an opengl mesh display loop in Javascript [19:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I've got a quad core - not eating anythingmore than 50% [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: chrome is much better though [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: performance is so much better than firefox [19:11] Nebadon Izumi: this is a big problem with WebGL right now [19:12] BlueWall Slade: it works better here too [19:12] Andrew Hellershanks: brb [19:12] Nebadon Izumi: its very inconsistent experience across web browsers [19:12] Dahlia Trimble: well its eating more than my c++ renderer is using, and my renderer is rendering everything in wright plaza [19:12] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, I still can't be bothered to download chrome [19:12] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, it's very new [19:12] Richardus Raymaker: 58-64fps nebadon. with 2 viewers open [19:12] Marcus Llewellyn: I still want Neb to upload his keyboard on the SL beta grid and tell us what the PE cost is. ;) [19:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya i am kind of on the border with Firefox and Chrome [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: they are about on the same level [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: Firefox crashes a lot more [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you that [19:13]  Misterblue Waves: Radegast has good performance and it's all C# [19:13]  Dahlia Trimble: I dont cere for either but I use FF [19:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and figure out why the attachments code does an insane thing occasionally [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: ok [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: oh yea Justin [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: before you go [19:13]  Sarah Kline: its now called Land impact [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: in V2/V3 viewers [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: if you change from a Mesh avatar to a normal avatar [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: your shape does not seem to update [19:13]  Nebadon Izumi: things get funky [19:14]  Nebadon Izumi: i have to relog with Imprudence to fix it [19:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: how nice [19:14] Marcus Llewellyn: They should just call it WTF. It's still confusing to most people. Heh [19:14] Nebadon Izumi: i have a feeling it has something to do with multiple attachments [19:14] Sarah Kline: a few of these V3 releases are suspect [19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I think that particular problem might have to wait [19:14] Nebadon Izumi: it seems like you can have several shapes attached [19:14] Gennifer Eros: Why sarah? [19:14] Nebadon Izumi: atleast the viewer thinks you have multiple shapes [19:14] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh [19:14] Nebadon Izumi: the grid database doesnt [19:14] Nebadon Izumi: but the viewer is concvinced you do [19:14]  Nebadon Izumi: and there is no way to detach em [19:14]  Richardus Raymaker: need to try kokua latest test [19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: if there's an expectation mismatch then that will need the grid to implement multi-attachments [19:15] Justin Clark-Casey: it will have to happen after 0.7.2 [19:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya i have a feeling thats the problem [19:15] Nebadon Izumi: ok no worries [19:15] Nebadon Izumi: just wanted to mention it [19:15]  Sarah Kline: well remember how it was when stuff kept attaching and attaching [19:15] Nebadon Izumi: i saw it [19:15]  Nebadon Izumi: then few others have mentioned it as well [19:15] Sarah Kline: every time you logged in ) [19:15]  Nebadon Izumi: i was passing out mesh avatars [19:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: probably something to list as a known bug then [19:15]  Nebadon Izumi: and everyone mentioned that problem after switching back with V3 viewer [19:16]  Nebadon Izumi: but if you relog with imprudence its fine [19:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: huh [19:16]  Sarah Kline: key mentioned it the other day [19:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: that's kind of strange [19:16]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [19:16]  dan banner: i didnt have that problem neb [19:16]  Nebadon Izumi: i didnt until recently dan [19:16]  Nebadon Izumi: like in the last week or two [19:16]  dan banner: ahh yeah im using project mesh still [19:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I had better go [19:16]  Nebadon Izumi: ok Justin [19:16]  Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming [19:17]  Marcus Llewellyn: Later, justin [19:17]  Sarah Kline: bye Justin [19:17] dan banner: later justin [19:17] BlueWall Slade: take care Justin [19:17] Justin Clark-Casey: could you briefly pass me another notecard with the chat log? [19:17] Pathfinder Lester: take care folks [19:17] Gennifer Eros: Laters justin [19:17] Mimetic Core: bye justin [19:17] Misterblue Waves: bye Justin [19:17] Deana Later is Online [19:17] Richardus Raymaker: is tehre a way to make flying more smooth. windows or linux. dont matter. its a bit random to [19:17] Dahlia Trimble: ya my time too, bye all :) [19:17]  BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia [19:17]  Richardus Raymaker: sometimes it seems to speedup a littlebit and then slowdown [19:17]  Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [19:17]  Misterblue Waves: bye Dahlia [19:17]  Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [19:18]  Nebadon Izumi: so any updates on Bullet stuff Misterblue? [19:19]  Misterblue Waves: no, I was off vacationing last week... barely touched a computer [19:19]  Misterblue Waves: I'll have time for it this week :) [19:19] Nebadon Izumi: oh right [19:19] Nebadon Izumi: Mic did mention that [19:19] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot [19:19] Nebadon Izumi: cool [19:20] Nebadon Izumi: i actually need to modify the Avatar obstacle course a bit [19:20] Marcus Llewellyn: I BulletSim safe to use? In that I won't crash every few minutes or slide off the sim all the time? ;) [19:20] Nebadon Izumi: we need Terrain section [19:20]  Nebadon Izumi: with various terrain conditions [19:20]  Misterblue Waves: avatar sliding is a problem [19:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [19:20]  Nebadon Izumi: avatar stopping is a problem too [19:20]  Nebadon Izumi: when your walking [19:20]  Misterblue Waves: if your terrain has a slant, avatars slide right down the hill [19:20]  Marcus Llewellyn: So it still needs major tweakage for anything other than using it just to play with it. [19:20]  Nebadon Izumi: heh ya [19:21]  Nebadon Izumi: prims too [19:21]  Nebadon Izumi: its like water slide [19:21]  BlueWall Slade: heh [19:21]  Misterblue Waves: the avatar friction is set to zero so that you keep walking [19:21]  Nebadon Izumi: well i can only seem to take a few steps [19:21]  Nebadon Izumi: then avatar feels like its hitting a invisible wall [19:21]  Nebadon Izumi: if i let off then move again its fine for a few more steps [19:21] Misterblue Waves: OpenSim only applies walking force once when you start moving... there is no damping on avatar movement while there is damping on prim movement [19:22] Golden Treasure: when I cross over a sim I go underground..not sure if that has naything to do with this [19:22] Nebadon Izumi: heh no [19:22]  Nebadon Izumi: border cross is not really a phsics issue [19:22] Nebadon Izumi: thats more just lag [19:22] Golden Treasure: ok [19:22]  Misterblue Waves: it's supposed to default to zero... check in OpenSimDefaults.ini and make sure AvatarFriction is set low (like zero) [19:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok [19:22]  Nebadon Izumi: i think i did check that [19:22] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try again [19:23] Richardus Raymaker: try to cross a simborder on prims. 99.6% sure you get wet [19:23] Nebadon Izumi: when i make mods to the obstacle course [19:23] Nebadon Izumi: i'll send you links when i update it [19:23]  Marcus Llewellyn: I can confirm that, Rich. [19:23] Celin Ansar: hello all [19:23] Misterblue Waves: Richardus, is that with BulletSim or with ODE also? [19:23] Nebadon Izumi: hello Celin [19:24] Golden Treasure: with the prim attached or just walking over them? [19:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to head out of here. see you next week [19:24] Misterblue Waves: bye Andrew [19:25] Golden Treasure: bye Andrew..take care [19:25] Andrew Hellershanks: bye everyone [19:25] Gennifer Eros: Night andrew [19:25] Sarah Kline: byes [19:25] BlueWall Slade: bye Andrew