Chat log from the meeting on 2012-11-27

[11:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [11:04] Connected [11:04] Tiffany Magic: Hello everyone [11:04] dan banner: hey justin [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:04] dan banner: hey tiffany [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [11:04] Sarah Kline: hi Justing [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: hm, yellow is getting hot this days :O [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:05] paulie Flomar: hi hi :) [11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I would never were this in real life [11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:05]  Hiro Protagonist: lol [11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: what happened to the freebie avatar you got? [11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: It's a good job that I don't have a well-defined 'package' [11:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: I put it on but for some reaosn it didn't stick [11:06]  paulie Flomar: ... heh [11:06]  Spike Miles: hiya everyone :) [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hello spike [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hi spike [11:07] Tiffany Magic: Justin: Considering the hair, skin and clothes you wear, it probably didn't think you needed it. *grins and ducks* [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: duck....... hmmm....... [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: pfff [11:07] Vivian Klees: well it makes for a good radiation suit [11:08] logger sewell: made it I think hey everyone [11:08] BlueWall Slade is Online [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks is Online [11:08] Tiffany Magic: Justin: FYI... we rolled our grid back to 7.3 and the lag is cleared up. [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks is Offline [11:09] BlueWall Slade: oooo crowd today - what'd we do wrong? [11:09] Mike Kayaker: But you also changed your DNS server... [11:09] Tiffany Sicling: hmm... [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks is Online [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: lulz [11:09] Tiffany Sicling: Tiff, lag seems to be an issue with 0.7.5.x [11:09]  Tiffany Magic: Our members are rezzing fine, and lag is corrected. [11:09] Fearghus McMahon: greetings all [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: hi blue [11:10] BlueWall Slade: Hi RiRa [11:10] Tiffany Magic: Mike: We did that after the rollback and the changes were vast. [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: its kind of Interesting Tiffany [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: i see a bit more slow request to tiffany. and 1 of my regions have habbit to crash more. [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I noticed today when you logged in this sim totally froze [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: but it did not freeze for anyone else [11:10] Tiffany Sicling: that's weird [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya very [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: I am wondering if the inventory folder version fixes correct the problem but this will need testing [11:10] Tiffany Sicling: which Tiffany ? [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks waves hello [11:11] Tiffany Magic: Nebadon: That must be my magnetic personality!! LOL [11:11] Tiffany Sicling: heh [11:11] logger sewell: hey Andrew [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: Well, 0.7.3 both has inventory CAPs disabled by default and the inventory cap doesn't work properly anyway [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: but i have enabled the nonblockingsendspecialbuffer again. i think its still doing something on win7 [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Wasn't sure I could attend todays meeting. Work was being done in the house so I was keeping an eye on the cat to make sure he stayed out of the way. [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: are you sure it's not the cat keeping an eye on you? :) [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: windows show a much higher process network latancy on the opensim instance [11:12]  Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [11:12]  Hiro Protagonist: the onlything my cat keeps an eye on is the backs of her eyelids lol [11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't had anybody giving more feedback yet on http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6412 about the delay issues [11:12]  Hiro Protagonist: she's pretty busy with that now [11:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: justin, definitely not this time. He kept wanting to wander over to where the work was being done and I had to keep him out of there. [11:13]  Richardus Raymaker: i sticked that mantis to the panel. in case i need it [11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: I thuoght cats were famously good at looking after themselves :) [11:14] Tiffany Sicling: so is there a param to disable CAPS in 0.7.5 ? [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: yes, the details are in that mantis [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, I'd like to be able to help with testing but the problem is the problems only happen in a grid and I needed to get the grid running well for the residents. The test machine running recent code hasn't shown the issues seen in the grid. [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: i think its in the mantis tiff [11:14] Tiffany Sicling: ok, looking now [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes this is the problem - I haven't direct experienced the issues either [11:14] Hiro Protagonist: <3 that mantis Justin [11:15] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.5 Dev          5b79bfc: 2012-11-17 01:32:01 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: i see skiw in consolke when i look. but i never really feel it inworld on my regions.. [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I never saw the problems myself unless I logged in as one of the avatars that did have a problem. [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: or had any reports from my current clients [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: we saw a total showstopper problem with that at jokaydia grid for a bit [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: save scipts can bite me more. [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:15]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: invnetory is something that would vary by avatar [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hmm oh wait am still on sl1 :O [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [11:15] BlueWall Slade: \o [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: It seemed related to what avatar you used even when logging in using the same machine and viewer. [11:15] Hiro Protagonist: folks with inventories larger than a certain amount simply couldnt log in [11:15]  Nebadon Izumi: hello BlueWall [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hi ahlia [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Inventory is one thing. The problem being seen was objects in the region not rezzing. [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: Adam had us add a piece to the connect string to make the timeouts for mysql requests be really really long [11:16] Tiffany Sicling: it seems to happen everytime asset/inv is used [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: like a full day I think [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yes, but one scenario is that large inventory download crowds out other traffic, such as object rezzing [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: this proved to be a workaround that was effective, but by no means a complete solution [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: either, for instance, messages from the server or even the client being delayed by processing inventory data [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: andrew, you mean the "Unable to rez: problem accessing inventory or locating assets" ? because that object i think is lost for ever i have [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, oh. I see. I didn't check the inventory count of the avatars that had the issue. I can look in to that. [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: My inventory is up around 19000 items. I'll see if the avatars with the problem had more than I do. [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: only problem i have is that i need to load empty inventory on plaza. it seems to freeze on my own region [11:17] Tiffany Magic: They were our alts. No inventory to speak of at all. And new people joining who had hardly any inventory. [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya its kind of odd that actually fixed the problem Hiro very strange issue indeed [11:17] Tiffany Sicling: Cap_FetchInventoryDescendents2 = "" Cap_FetchInventory2 = "" instead ? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: yes [11:17] Tiffany Sicling: ok [11:18]  Tiffany Sicling: I'll try that [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: tiffany: that would work on 0.7.4 too [11:18] Tiffany Sicling: I am running osg current [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: but ideally one would test latest master or osg current [11:18] Hiro Protagonist: I wiah I knew more about their inventory counts, but I only saw IAR file sizes from my workflow perspective; they were all IARs up around 2.5+ GB [11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: the inventory folder version fixes need a ROBUST update rather than simulator [11:18] Tiffany Sicling: I installed osg current last night [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: hiro: yes. they seem to get very big without any charging for data upload [11:18] Tiffany Sicling: will apply workaround [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: or even with [11:19] Hiro Protagonist: heh [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: one might have to think about inventory size limiting at some stage.... [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: optional, of course [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: oh hiro. then am getting in the danger zone :O 6K now. but iar is around 2-3GB [11:19] Tiffany Sicling: ouch RiRa [11:19] BlueWall Slade: we need an "attic" for seldom used inventory [11:19] Tiffany Sicling: I am sure there is a lot of dupes in inv too [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: i try to keep mine low. but maby some big stuff is packed [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. My 19k items only generated a 646Meg iar [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: my IAR i just made is 2.8gb [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:20] Tiffany Sicling: holy crap [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: how many items, neb? [11:20]  Richardus Raymaker: for 50K you have neb ?:) not much. [11:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: and an IAR is already compressed (gzip ) :) [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: well the IAR said something like 65000 assets [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: 65k? wow. [11:20] Hiro Protagonist: I've been working the dupes out of mine, and the old versions of stuff I've made; I've reduced from 19k items down to 7.7k [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: my inventory reads 44,000 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: but you know objects inside objects etc.. [11:21] Tiffany Sicling: 50K was close [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: latest iar here is 2.7GB [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: coalesced objects etc.. [11:21] Tiffany Sicling: probably double that [11:21] Sarah Kline: to sort that out would take a year or so [11:21]  Dahlia Trimble: I made an iar of my osgrid inventory but it crashes with unhandled exception when I try to reload it [11:21]  Sarah Kline: so will never happen lol [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: dan was saying that .net and mono have a hard limit on how big our IAR and IAR can be [11:21]  Fearghus McMahon: wow [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: never found where it crashed [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: curious. What exception is that? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its like 4.3gb or something [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: i wish i got a working train system. then i could save 2k to seperate ia and remove it [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: dahila: oh ok [11:21]  BlueWall Slade: crashed on the trawmpoline [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: if your inventory gets too big, it will be impossible to save 1 big iar [11:22] Sarah Kline: yes i can confirm that Neb [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: cant remember, will try to reproduce someday :) [11:22]  dan banner: only how big an iar can be loaded [11:22]  Sarah Kline: after 4 it will fail [11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: neb, you will hit the limit before most of us. [11:22]  Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah. i know someone that knows everything about big iar's :O [11:22]  dan banner: seems saving iar bigger than can be loaded is possible [11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: 4gb? [11:22]  Tiffany Sicling: I am afraid to see how big mine is lol [11:22]  Robert Adams: is there a good place to aquire a train system? I'd like to test it on my up-and-coming BulletSim regions [11:22]  dan banner: 4.3 stream limit on .net 3.5 [11:22]  Sarah Kline: yes i did a back up when we went over to 7.0 [11:22]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I think the iar write might possibly create a file that can't be loaded. [11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: How far is bullet ready with nebadons car ? [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: oh Robert, does bulletsim do avatar running? [11:23] BlueWall Slade: I don't know of a physics based train [11:23] Robert Adams: it doesn't fly into the air any more... it's a bit slow, though [11:23] Robert Adams: does the physics engine do anything about running? [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: i think at some point you maby need to change the iar system in a way it saves seeprate iar's for the first subfolder under invventory ? [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: seems when I run I go the same speed as walking [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: ode does running [11:24] Robert Adams: I looked at ODE and it seems to only do something about setAlwaysRun [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: Bluewall, afraid i have the only physical train then now. but it sometimes derail [11:24] BlueWall Slade: ahahh [11:24] Robert Adams: I will test... but I think running happens because the physics engine gets told a faster speed to move [11:25] Dahlia Trimble: double click forward arrow and hold to run [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: my physical train run fine with 2 trains. if am starting nr. 3 at some point it derail. [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: if the not jump in the ocean at the start :P [11:25] BlueWall Slade: maybe Robert could get a copy of your train to test? [11:25] Fearghus McMahon: would bulletsim support the functions to prevent x, y or z tilting of the physical prim Robert? [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: iam just waiting until robert say bullit is good enough to try with physical. [11:26] Tiffany Sicling: there is a very well scripted roller coaster on recreation plaza [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: Tiffany, sofar i know thats not physical [11:27] Robert Adams: Fearghus, you talking about the NO_X,... attribute for vehicles? [11:27] Tiffany Sicling: RiRa, yeah, I don't think it's physical [11:27] Robert Adams: there is also lockAngular [11:27] Robert Adams: both of which I will have working [11:27] Tiffany Sicling: I applied the fix for the CAPS on Nibiru, will test after meeting [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: This isn't so much a fix as disabling something [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: old viewers shoudl work fine, but anything that doesn't correctly fallback to inventory UDP will see inventory problems [11:28] Robert Adams: my order, at the moment, is cars (trains?), then boats, then airplanes [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: I know the official LL viewer was like this for a time - I don't know about the current state of firestorm, etvc. [11:28] Fearghus McMahon: I think so yes Robert....forgot the actual names :(.....will look it up [11:29]  Andrew Hellershanks: Speaking of physics, can I turn off physics for mesh objects and leave it on for regular prims? [11:29]  Sarah Kline: sounds good Robert [11:29]  Richardus Raymaker: cars is good, because we have nebadons racer. and that one i know best. [11:29]  Robert Adams: not a feature at the moment... if it's 'physical' it is that way [11:30]  Richardus Raymaker: the train i like to test anyway [11:30]  Robert Adams: what's the use of non-physical, physical meshes? [11:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: Robert, I have a region that locks up. Last messages in log are "No recognized physics mesh found in mesh asset for /". [11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: if nebadons car works. i can try my train [11:31]  Dahlia Trimble: is that one of those unanswerable questions we're supposed to ponder? [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: If I turn off phyics for prims region starts. [11:31] Tiffany Sicling: well, I know a builder that made some rings... and when something was updated about mesh physics... they quit working for collision [11:31] dan banner: andrew ive seen that and it never stops the regions from loading [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Tiffany, that sounds like it might be related to the problem I'm seeing. [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. differnet question. still important. i dont think it work here. you cannot enabled IM to e-mail ? [11:32] Robert Adams: there are multiple meshes for meshed assets... view, collision, ... [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: dan, it seems to be something to do with a physical objects. Physics for prims on, lockup. phys for prims off, region runs ok. [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: tiffany, i see on my console sometimes also physics not found for mesh. [11:32] Robert Adams: the mesher should fall back if there is no collision mesh to the view mesh... [11:33] Sarah Kline: its just not been uploaded with a physics bit [11:33] Sarah Kline: ? [11:33] Tiffany Sicling: andrew, sorta like the rings were mesh, and hollow in middle... now they don't seem hollow anymore I guess due to the physics (or lack thereof) of the mesh [11:33] Robert Adams: some meshes can't be parsed... but that shouldn't hang up the region [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks nods to TiffanyS [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: it should, I never got around to doing that, hard to know which LOD to use [11:33] Sarah Kline: just use the most simple [11:33] Sarah Kline: for everthing if not sure [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: but i worked abit more with mesh in SL, and there you need to press analyze physical. if you dont do that it mostly create error. here you can simple selecht te physical quality and upload [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I wanted to run a test with physics off just for mesh objects to see if that made a difference or not. [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: physics mesh has been checked for degenerate triangles and other potential gotchas [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: not so for viewable meshes [11:34] Robert Adams: BulletSim falls back to a bounding cube if it can't get the mesh [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: I think ode does also [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: argh :O [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: does mesh_sculpted_prim setting disable physics for mesh objects or is that something that only applies when a mesh object is uploaded? [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: sculpties are differen [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: different [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: In the past I have seen a physical prim half buried in the ground drop PhyFPS to near 0. [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll just run some more tests. THe machine is a windows box so not so easy to debug. [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: hmm now you say it. sometime sregion crash. but i have the idea am misisng info then [11:38] fabrice.parisi @hg.francogrid.org: HI - bonsoir [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:38]  Richardus Raymaker: hi [11:38]  BlueWall Slade: bonsoir [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: bon jour [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: nice hat fabrice :) [11:39]  Douglas Maxwell is Online [11:39]  Andrew Hellershanks: physical objects can be a pain [11:39]  fabrice.parisi @hg.francogrid.org: hard to come here - need 3 Hypergrid jump [11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: aah. guess francogrid is palced on (grin) special coordinate) [11:39] BlueWall Slade: you were at 1000,1000 [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: placed [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: i guess so bluewall [11:39] Tiffany Sicling: yep, that will doit coords [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: don't forget to leave a trail of bread crumbs so you can find your way back home later. [11:39] fabrice.parisi @hg.francogrid.org: need 4000 and 8000 and here :) but is nice [11:40]  mantic Azalee: ciao alex [11:40]  mantic Azalee: mi leggi? [11:40]  BlueWall Slade: look for osgrid jump4000 and jump8000 [11:40]  Alex Deed: hi Mantic [11:40]  Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, but ducks where the first animals in osgrid. not sure if the bread wil be still there. [11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey: one day some viewer will remove that restriction.... maybe [11:40]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, *grin* [11:41]  Allen Kerensky: or we all just move our regions down to 0-4095 range [11:41]  Nick Balers creates an OSgrid duck hunt game [11:41]  Nick Balers: hehe [11:41]  Alex Deed: what you means @leggi@ ? [11:41]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, or the move up allen [11:41]  fabrice.parisi @hg.francogrid.org: is not problem - i'am trainning HG junmp - so nice :) [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: this is why it can't happen :) [11:41]  fabrice.parisi @hg.francogrid.org: sorry for my bad english [11:41]  Allen Kerensky: sorry RiRa that's what created the problems by putting region coords at odd with the viewer code [11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: fabrice: no problem [11:42]  Andrew Hellershanks: justin, is it just a viewer limit or is the limit also in the data packet passing between viewer and SL/OpenSim? [11:42]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes once upon a time so genius started putting regions at 10000,10000 ;) [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: some [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know viewer andrew [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: it used to work with libomv clients but not any more [11:42] Allen Kerensky: so just pick up and move, its one INI file to edit. [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, if it is just viewer it shouldn't be so bad to fix. It is supposed to be an Object Oriented based program after all. [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: it's a good question and I dont' really know. 4096 is definitely a 'boundary' number which suggests protocol. But I also know that long jumps cause gfx problems in the viewer [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: Alleen, old thread. how do you move a whole grid down without a war ? [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: which is very odd really, possibly just a side effect of a corrupt number somewhere after exceeding 4096 [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: or 4095, rather [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:43] Allen Kerensky: piece at a time RiRa until critical mass is reached [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: just have the war. Drama is often fun :) [11:43] BlueWall Slade: lol [11:43]  Spike Miles: XD [11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes, because we don't have enough drama on the internetz [11:43]  Allen Kerensky: everything here was *built* and configurable [11:43]  Tiffany Sicling: put your own 4k,4k and 8k,8k regions for purposes of going to other worlds [11:44]  Andrew Hellershanks: Need to find at least one place in the code where the problem occurs before one can start to get a handle on the scope of the fix for it. [11:44]  Richardus Raymaker: WHat i know andrew. Linden Lab coded the 4096 pretty hard, and used the wrong variable [11:44]  Allen Kerensky: or jsut take Diva's advice and move regions down [11:44]  Hiro Protagonist: ...or enuff catz [11:44]  Allen Kerensky: move you region, move the Lbsa default noob landing, etc... [11:45]  Tiffany Sicling: I thought the 4k limit was a viewer limit [11:45]  Allen Kerensky: then the people at high numbers will get more motivation [11:45] Sarah Kline: you just move the plazas down [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: 4096 is 12 bits. If other data is in the upper 4 that still is only a short. [11:45] Sarah Kline: everbody else will follow who wants [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: somethink now prevents teleports > 4096, used to be able to do it [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: I dont remember ever being able to do it [11:45]  Sarah Kline: it is empty down the bottom there [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: so even if a viewer could do it, its prevented [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, because it was causing gfx problems in the viewer I did put a limiter on the server-side [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: the viewer most times tell me its out of range [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which on reflection may not be the best move, since it stops the bug being more obvious visible [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, any idea how long ago? I've only been in grids for a few years (forget my SL rez date) [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: well it worked in non-LL viewers [11:46] Tiffany Sicling: it sure makes it hard to HG to different grids if they are out of range of the source grid [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: sure ? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: all I can say is teleporting more than 4096 has never worked in OSgrid [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: i think HG can be at 1000,1000 and i can TP from here [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: it was several years ago when I first came to osgrid [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe there's a case for disabling the check [11:46] Allen Kerensky: i mean, with the current land/region/parcel design (256x256 patches, megas, etc) 4096 is enough [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I thought it had to do with how LL stored the region coordinates [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: oh yes, could be that too [11:47] Tiffany Sicling: I remember vaguely when bluewall and myself were trying all kinds of things to go beyond that limit [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: before you filled 24bit with regions ^^ [11:47] Tiffany Sicling: that was like, 3 years ago? [11:47] Allen Kerensky: oh well, sort of sorry to reopen an old debate [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: no, I think it's good to talk about these things [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Allen, not really. You can be in one grid centered around 1k,1k and want to jump to another that is centered around 10k,10k. Can't get there. [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: queston the assumptions, etc (in a reasonable manner, of course) [11:47] Allen Kerensky: but I am down in the lower region - it wasn't hard to edit INI and restart [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: I think there is something to be said for the idea of simply moving the plazas [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: not that I'm in favor of drama [11:48] Allen Kerensky: and keep a profile pick for the jump regions until the rest of the grid moves southwest [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: but if the plazas were moved, everyone else would follow [11:48] Douglas Maxwell is Offline [11:48] dan banner: ya and everyone would steal everyones spots [11:48] Hiro Protagonist: anyone who cared about visiting the plazas anyway [11:48] dan banner: etc [11:48] Tiffany Sicling: what is the starting coords for *MOST* other grids? [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: but how do you keep the locations the same ? or maby finaly a good excuse to move ? lol [11:48] Sarah Kline: well thats up to them [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya moving is really the only solution, but moving would be quite the disaster I suspect [11:49] Hiro Protagonist: I think thats something we really dont have a lot of control over [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: thats why I never really wanted to doit [11:49] Sarah Kline: hehe [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I personally do not think it would go smoothly at all [11:49] Hiro Protagonist: oh I doubt it would [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: If someone could show that a viewer had no problem jumping beyond 4096 regions I think there would certainly be a case for disabling the server-side check [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: TiffanyS, don't now about most but I have seen a lot using 1k,1k. It might be most common but I've also seen the 10k,10 one. [11:49] Hiro Protagonist: there would be some scrappin [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: moar drama! [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: you can only move down if you can lock the current sim locations on the new location for the same sims [11:49] Allen Kerensky: well, I bit the bullet, figuratively, and just moved myself and use the jumps for now [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie has a good understanding of the 4096 limit I think [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: I can never remember exactly why [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: has something to do with how the coordinates are stored [11:50] Hiro Protagonist: I think if you announced that you were going to move, well in advance, most people would go ahead and move preemptively [11:50] Sarah Kline: I think we are fairly well behaved it might not be that bad [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: lots of grids followed osgrid's lead [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: it converts the coordinates to some wierd number then tacks the 2 numbers together [11:50] Allen Kerensky: or invite anyone who screams to visit the page on running their own grid [11:50] Sarah Kline: LBSA is the centre one [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: neb, I seem to remember hearing that the other 4 bits were being used for something last time it was talked about on IRC with Melanie [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, i think i know what you mean nebadon. the raw coordinates are just integers if am right but the can be much bigger then 4096 [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if the distance is more than 4096 it overflows [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the number becomes to large [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and thus the teleport fails [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:51]  Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, they are probably short ints if 4k is the limit [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: Sarah. you can wait on problems [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: it doesnt fail, stuff just doesnt rez [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: you still teleport [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Unless there is some kind of masking of position data taking place. [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: The thing to do would be dig through the TP code. [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I would count arriving somewhere and not seeing stuff rez as still a telepro tfailure, personally :) [11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: in the broader sense [11:51]  Allen Kerensky: <--- needs to bite the bullet and switch to Bullet fizzies too [11:51]  Hiro Protagonist: same here [11:52]  Hiro Protagonist: you can see, but you cant move [11:52]  Hiro Protagonist: and as I recall, your chats dont make it through [11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, it sounds like melanie may know exactly where the problem is [11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: or at least where one would start [11:52]  Dahlia Trimble: well for now its not possible to fix it on a client because teleports are prevented [11:52]  Andrew Hellershanks: knowing Melanie, it been fixed in Avination (if there was a limit in the OS code side) [11:52]  Dahlia Trimble: so there is a barrier to fixing it [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: its not fixed in Avination [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: infact its kind of riduculous if you think about it [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: 4096x4096 is 16 million regions [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: neb, not if there is also a limit in the viewer side. [11:53] Tiffany Sicling: where would you put lbsa then ? [11:53] Sarah Kline: she wouldnt need that sort of range [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: you could fit all of SL and every single opensimulator region that ever existed [11:53] Guy Pascal: right i have a question [11:53] Hiro Protagonist: lol Neb +1 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: and still have 16 million regions left [11:53] Sarah Kline: heheh [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: you dont need the range if you dont have hypergrid [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that's easily disabled by setting max_distance in [EntityTransfer] on the source sim [11:53] Allen Kerensky: 2047,2047 is the center of the base range =) [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: and technically [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: diva can confirm this [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: the actual limit is not 4096 [11:53]  Andrew Hellershanks: neb, true but I was combining regions from two grids once. One grid was centered around 1k and the other at 10k. You couldn't tp from one to the other. [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: its 2048 [11:53]  Richardus Raymaker: what would HG and map do if you have 50 regions at 1000,1000 ? [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: the teleport will work beyond 2048 [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: but other things fail [11:54]  Dahlia Trimble: Justin, sure but everyone has it set up and cant control their settings [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: the actual technical hard limit imposed by LL is 2048 [11:54]  Allen Kerensky: neat =( [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, but anybody interested in fixing it could easily disable on a test simulator [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: things like the map stop working if you teleport more than 2048 [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right. I seem to remember the 4k thing (may have) also affected maps. [11:54] Hiro Protagonist: yeah it looks like 4096 on osgrid because there are no regions with <0 coords [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: so lbsa or wright would be placed at 2048,2048 then [11:54] Guy Pascal: why has AVG deleted my opensim.exe file saying it is dangerous [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: there was something else that breaks but I cant remember now what it is [11:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: and once a fix was definite one could set the default config to unlimited [11:54] Hiro Protagonist: the limit is actually +/- 2048 [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:55]  Tiffany Sicling: well, if you put it at 2k,2k, then you lose 2kx2k region space [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: probably cause AVG is not a good antivirus hehe [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: mmmm [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: its most definately a false positive [11:55] Fearghus McMahon: cause opensim.exe has adictive content ;) [11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:55]  Tiffany Sicling: lol rear [11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: only thing I can suggest is submit a report to AVG [11:55]  Tiffany Sicling: fear* [11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: and ask them to explain why they think it is a virus [11:55]  Dahlia Trimble: wouldnt need a fix if one were developing clients not based on LL code [11:56]  Richardus Raymaker: AVG is a bit hyper virusscanner. it says that singualrity is bad to for soemone [11:56]  Guy Pascal: yeah well i started making a sim last night put items on it ,today always gone ,com crashes i restart avg says its harmfull ,everything gone from sim ,i replace the exe file with a new one [11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: as long as one assumes it's isn't a protocol issue, and so doesnt' extend into opensim internals [11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, not unless there is a limit in the protocol [11:56] Guy Pascal: so how come everything was gone [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: well it used to work with libomv clients [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... if there is a TP data packet it would be easy to check libOMV for any issue [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: before the limit was put in [11:57]  Richardus Raymaker: tiffany. it would be betetr if you can reach most of the grid from every plaza. the problem now in osgrid already. some people count 4096 from lbsa. so you fail when you TP from wright [11:58] Tiffany Sicling: RiRa: true [11:58] Guy Pascal: anybody know this foxx guy [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks imagines Dahlia running git bisect involving several years worth of code to see when 4k became a limit. [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: I dont count 4096.. I use a lower number like 3500ish [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: i count with 2048 or betetr 2047 [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: but I have regions at 1024 [11:59] Tiffany Sicling: ya need a bigger stargate to get past that 4096 limit lol [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: tiffany, just invent warpdrive [11:59] Tiffany Sicling: yeah yeah [11:59] Guy Pascal: i think foxx is hacking me [12:00]  Allen Kerensky: logout - log back in using region name on viewer login page - hyperspace jump rather than TP =) step outside the universe and back in at another location [12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks notes there are around 10 TP messages in libOMV [12:00]  Guy Pascal: he asked for my ip in helping set up a sim ,since them computer isnt same [12:00]  Dahlia Trimble: Guy, maybe you have a virus and it spread to opensim [12:00]  Guy Pascal: no viruses i scanned [12:00]  Dahlia Trimble: anyway you can compile it yourself [12:00]  Tiffany Sicling: I thought with the bugs OS has, it doesn't need virii [12:00]  Andrew Hellershanks: Guy, also check for spyware. [12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: scanned with smething else then avg. that maby can be infected to [12:01]  Guy Pascal: spent last night building a house etc ,today i return to the sim all is gone [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: is your database configured right. maby nothing get saved guy [12:01] Nick Balers: me makes note of Tiffany's suggestion of a bigger Stargate [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to jump off and get to the shops before they close [12:01] Guy Pascal: how do i save it [12:01]  Tiffany Sicling: try microsoft security essentials [12:01] Sarah Kline: bye Justin [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Nick, one that uses the 8th symbol :-) [12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: thanks for the meeting, see you guys later [12:01]  Richardus Raymaker: first stargate left justin. bye bye [12:01]  Guy Pascal: thanks tiffany i will [12:02]  Hiro Protagonist: tc Justin :) [12:02] Fearghus McMahon: See ya in holland Justin! ;) [12:02] Dahlia Trimble: bye jcc [12:02]  Nick Balers: already working onit Andrew hehe [12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: wow. an hour is up already? [12:02]  fabrice.parisi @hg.francogrid.org: bonsoir justin [12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: bye, Justin [12:02]  Tiffany Sicling: bye justinc [12:02]  Justin Clark-Casey waves [12:02]  Spike Miles: take care Justin :)