Chat log from the meeting on 2009-01-27



[11:00] Teravus Ousley is Online

[11:01] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: woops

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: closed wrong one

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i had a hung hippo viewer

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: from last crash

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i ended task on wrong one

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: woops

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: soooo Take 3

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: aaaaaaand shooot

[11:02] Charles Krinke is Online

[11:02] Alyvaral Aeghin: hi everybody!

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[11:02] Snowdrop Short: hi :)

[11:03] Charles Krinke: Morning

[11:03] Alyvaral Aeghin: Morning Charles

[11:03] Charles Krinke: We gotta slide these cushions forward some time.

[11:04] Snowdrop Short: Charles, could you do a rebake?

[11:04] Fly Man is Online

[11:04] Snowdrop Short: or is that your real skin?

[11:04] Charles Krinke: sure, done

[11:05] box8: rezzed.

[11:05] box13: rezzed.

[11:05] box15: rezzed.

[11:05] Charles Krinke: Well, I have changed my pants and shirt since the last meeting, maybe that is is.

[11:05] box6: rezzed.

[11:05] box1: rezzed.

[11:05] box11: rezzed.

[11:05] box12: rezzed.

[11:05] box14: rezzed.

[11:05] boxglow: rezzed.

[11:05] boxglow: Holocube generating finsihed. You may now use Glow and Light on the Cube

[11:05] box5: rezzed.

[11:05] box7: rezzed.

[11:05] box3: rezzed.

[11:05] box4: rezzed.

[11:05] box10: rezzed.

[11:05] box18: rezzed.

[11:05] box16: rezzed.

[11:05] box9: rezzed.

[11:05] box17: rezzed.

[11:05] Wordfromthe Wise: sorry for spamming the chat

[11:05] Wordfromthe Wise: it just reloaded

[11:05] Wordfromthe Wise: sorry

[11:05] Teravus Ousley: apparently some boxes just rezzed?

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: he's kicked

[11:05] Fly Man: Morning / Evening

[11:06] Alyvaral Aeghin: LOL, I DIDN'T DO IT!

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: infact im gonna temp ban him

[11:06] Charles Krinke: It is best not to rez stuff during our meeting as we are still a bit fragile.

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: I think he's trying to be helpful.

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: :)

[11:06] Charles Krinke: I understand

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: but.. yeah.. rezzing isn't a good idea during meetings.

[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: well hes banned from the meeting for being so helpful

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: i will unban him after

[11:07] Charles Krinke: I want to mention a couple of things before we get formally started.

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: please announce if your going to to something that could potentially crash the sim

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: sure charles lets get rollin

[11:08] Charles Krinke: Mostly two requests that could be passed around IRC

[11:08] Charles Krinke: The first is a plea to get at least some implementation of the remaining 27 LSL functions, incomplete or not into Mantis as patches.

[11:09] Fly Man: Charles, on that :)

[11:09] Snowdrop Short: aren't most function dependent on physics?

[11:09] Fly Man: As it's not 27 anymore ...

[11:09] Charles Krinke: The second plea is for developers (or potential developers) to look at the wiki page for OpenSim_v0.6_IClientAPI and look at submitting patches to accomplish the mission Adam outlined over the weekend

[11:09] Fly Man: It's in total 45 LSL functions if you count the new ones as well ....

[11:10] Homer Horwitz: Hi everyone

[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hi all

[11:10] Snowdrop Short: I noticed that lists seems to be incomplete on the wiki

[11:10] Alyvaral Aeghin waves

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya i was wondering if we were including the new functions

[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i did not think we were

[11:11] Charles Krinke: I am concerned with those that are in the "NotImplemented" state right now. That is, those which throw a "NotImplemented" exception when called. If no one patches them in the next couple of weeks, I will just remove the exceptions and let them be stubs and we can move forward.

[11:11] Fly Man: Snowdrop, I'm working on the new list this week

[11:11] Fly Man: so the new list will be concluded after the weekend

[11:11] Teravus Ousley: Total Frame Time is looking really nice today so far on the sim stats.. for here

[11:11] Charles Krinke: Perhaps someone can get a list of the "new" functions ? Wiki, e-mail, snail-mail?

[11:12] Charles Krinke: And I (or others) can stub them into LSLApi.cs

[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[11:12] Fly Man: Charles, I will send them after you :)

[11:12] Fly Man: after the meeting ...

[11:12] Charles Krinke: Thanks. I'll stub and we can go forward. cfk@pacbell.net

[11:12] Fly Man: On it's way ...

[11:13] Charles Krinke: Ok, its 1900 UTC. First thing: "What are those items that the developers wish to bring up that they are either working on, or would like help from us testers?"

[11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: greetings, earthlings

[11:13] BlueWall Slade is Online

[11:13] Charles Krinke: Morning, Justin, er, afternoon, er, evening.

[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: late evening

[11:14] Teravus Ousley: late evening

[11:14] Teravus Ousley: :)

[11:14] Charles Krinke: Probably 1900 UTC where you are, huh, Justin.

[11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: indeed, indeed

[11:14] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online

[11:14] Charles Krinke: Maybe we should make our greetings be "UTC" centric since we are a planetary project.

[11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: greetings from the utc, earthlings

[11:15] Teravus Ousley: we need to find a way to kill off some of those locks that occur during login :)

[11:15] BlueWall Slade: Happy Zulu time everybody!

[11:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi :)

[11:15] Snowdrop Short: hiya BlueWall

[11:15] Charles Krinke: Justin, Teravus, any other dev. What are the things you might like to bring up first?

[11:15] BlueWall Slade: Hello

[11:15] Richardus Raymaker: \!hi bluewall

[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm wondering how often people get prims they cannot delete

[11:16] BlueWall Slade: Hi Richardus

[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: well i get prims i can not delete often

[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: but usualy if you move them

[11:16] Teravus Ousley: nothing particularlly from me, ckrinke

[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: they poof away

[11:16] Charles Krinke: As a "master avatar" with the UUID from OSGrid set into my Regions/*.xml files, "never"

[11:16] LisaKathleen Kaligawa: hi hi

[11:17] Orion Hax: i am set as master avatar and have not run into that issue

[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, thanks for the feedback. I have come across some genuinely orphaned prims and I know why they never delete - but [perhaps the problem doesn't occur all that often

[11:17] Blaksmith Rubble: I have nothing to report for the last few weeks ... seeing as I haven't been doing anything but updating to head every now and then, and shuffling off to RL work :(

[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: how is the progressive texture stuff looking now, Teravus?

[11:18] Charles Krinke: Justin. I was reading the exchange on "master avatar" and I think some folks are not changing it from 0000-0000...0000 to the UUID that their standalone or grid has for their avatar.

[11:18] Richardus Raymaker: Nice, i have always returning prims after reboot. and i delete them everytime again.

[11:18] Teravus Ousley: pretty good actually...

[11:18] Fly Man: Charles, you have email :)

[11:18] Dahlia Trimble is Online

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: okay, thanks for the feedback. I hope to put something in that should at least allow them to be permamently deleted soon (if the cause is what I think it is)

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: it is a confusing setting

[11:19] Teravus Ousley: one of the benefits of it.. is the texture stuff isn't shared.. and there isn't lots of monitor/locks a second.

[11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: do you know if there is any documentation on it?

[11:19] Teravus Ousley: It really shows in the total frame time.

[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: cool

[11:20] Teravus Ousley: average for here during a meeting is 800-1000ms

[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: seems nice and low at the moment

[11:20] Charles Krinke: Is anyone testing the predecode-j2k console command and as a result have any comments to help Teravus's thinking?

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: so far its great

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: works as advertised from what i can tell

[11:21] Master Zephyr: we have

[11:21] Teravus Ousley: dispite what the sim stats says.. we have 16 people here atm

[11:21] Master Zephyr: seems to work ok for us

[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: in what circumstances would one use that command?

[11:21] Teravus Ousley: loading an oar.. for example

[11:21] Teravus Ousley: .. any time you move the database

[11:21] Snowdrop Short: I tried it, but I didn't know if it worked

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: fresh checkout and you lost the decode folder

[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: also valid use case

[11:22] Teravus Ousley: yep. use predecode-j2k

[11:22] Teravus Ousley: .. you'll see a lot of X ms decoding messages from the j2kdecoder module

[11:22] Master Zephyr: for us it seems to speed up textuer load times

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: so could that be done automatically after an oar load (in the background)?

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: yea on a heavy sim such as this one, or Zaius Plaza, (OKC) Ka

[11:23] Snowdrop Short: when I tried,I didn't get any feed back on the console

[11:23] Teravus Ousley: yes, they run in their own threads

[11:23] Snowdrop Short: is that supposed to happen

[11:23] Charles Krinke: I thought there were some exceptions that Nebadon saw over the weekend. Are those significant, Teravus?

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: unless you predecode-j2k the 1st person to log in will get clobbered

[11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ok

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: and likely have to relog several times

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: until the decode completes

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so in that case you would most definately want to predocde your sim

[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: *predecode

[11:23] Master Zephyr: noods, can that be loaded in the startup script?

[11:24] Teravus Ousley: Right, we suggest you run that if your region is texture heavy and you don't have existing cache.

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: could but no recommended

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: best to manually trigger it

[11:24] Master Zephyr: pk

[11:24] Master Zephyr: ok

[11:24] Charles Krinke: I get the impression that the sim startup delay of 15 seconds (or 15 minutes it seems like) is causing some angst and wonder if the devs can consider revisiting that issue?

[11:24] Homer Horwitz: If I understand it correctly, you only have to do it once, not every time?

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: well not angst but i was wondering why

[11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: why is it causing angst?

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: it seems recently to take much longer

[11:24] Teravus Ousley: right, so long as your j2kDecodeCache folder exists

[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: well for me

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: most of my sims i have to disable login during script startup

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: because if i dont the sim just runs like crap if someone logsin during script firing

[11:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: how do you do that?

[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: yes, what we really need is a way to delay login until after the initial bunch of scripts have started

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and recently it takes a good 60 seconds for scripts to fire off

[11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: definitely

[11:25] Fly Man: Uhm, could be me

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: times that by 36 and you get a grumpy nebadon

[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:26] Fly Man: but didn't we implement something like that ?

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: in itself I'm not sure reducing that 15 secs will help much - though Melanie is the one to talk to since I think she increased the pause

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: ok i was mostly wondering thats all

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: Fly Man: not yet - it's actually fairly tricky

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: if theres a reason i can most certainly live with it

[11:26] Fly Man: on the Userserver to disable logins ?

[11:26] Charles Krinke: region has disable logins command, I dont think the user server does.

[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but if its not really needed then its just taking away mine and others time

[11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect hte 15 secs ihas a big safety margin, perhaps it could be reduced

[11:27] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: user server got disabling login

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: well i have timed it

[11:27] Fly Man: Justin, on the XEngine ... ?

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: somtimes for me its 60+ seconds

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: 15 would be aweosme

[11:27] Dahlia Trimble is Offline

[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: oh right

[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: huh

[11:27] Fly Man: I have tried it without ...

[11:27] Fly Man: the XEngine wouldn't start compiling

[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i susepct heavier sims take much longer than 15

[11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought I saw 15 seconds in the commit but perhaps it can take longer (or my memory is bad)

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: all my sims are heavy traffic heavy prims heavy scripts

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: for the most part

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but really, the ideal thing would be dont allow llogins

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: at all until scripts are odne fireing

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: *done*

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: that would also save me quite a bit of time

[11:29] Fly Man: Uhm, that would mean that the region server needs to communicate with the user server

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: having to force a login-disable, then login-enable after its done

[11:29] Fly Man: and that the region sets a bit on the userserver

[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, thinking about it, perhaps it's not so hard

[11:29] Charles Krinke: On script questions, I recently got Nebadon's train engine script running a prim between four stations with dotnet, but it didnt move the prim with xengine until after adding "//dotnet" incantations to the top of the script.

[11:29] Master Zephyr: it would be nice if it did that on launch anyway

[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: as long as scripts aren't spawning scripts on startup, it should be possible to put something in the script engine that would signal initial script startup complettion

[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: cool

[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya lets mention to melanie see what she thinks

[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: yes

[11:30] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Gabe

[11:30] Master Zephyr: would mabey help things settle for a bit then allows logins mabey

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats the goal i think

[11:31] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: we made some test withg kitto

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: the second scripts stop firing

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: its safe

[11:31] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: for "train"

[11:31] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: let me catch his log

[11:32] Master Zephyr: i ran into something im not sure if its a bug or something not done yet

[11:32] Charles Krinke: works? Are HyperGridded in here, Sacha?

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if i had not disabled the logins after the last crash and waited this sim would have already crashed again no doubt

[11:32] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: Kitto Flora: More: I made a hovering 'vehicle' on k-grid (Not LSL-vehicle-code, just something that you sit on and is controllable). It is physical. It uses Hover - and that on its own works correctly. I Then tried using llSetForce which should be like propeklling yourselt with a thruster. But the result is more like an impulse! And it interacts bizzarly with changing the hover height!

[20:13] Kitto Flora: I tried the same script in SL - there it works much as I expected it should. So OpenSim llSetForce is bad, possibly control and llSetHoverHeight too.

[11:32] Master Zephyr: reat handler for assest and inventory throws exception when enabled in gridmode

[11:32] Master Zephyr: rest

[11:33] Teravus Ousley: happy 19 people so far..

[11:33] Master Zephyr: seems ok though in standalone

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[11:33] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: Kitto Flora: There is not enough implemented to make a track following vehicle I thunk. But Worse!!.... It appears that if an object is set PHYSICAL then the controls functions fail!! So the vehicle cannot be driven!

[15:06] Kitto Flora: control works for non-physical, but fails totally for physical :(

[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: Master: that doesn't surprise me - no implementation of that yet I don't think

[11:33] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: charles, yes

[11:33] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: Hypergrid ;)

[11:33] Richardus Raymaker: whoo

[11:33] Charles Krinke: coolness, Sacha. And "WOOT!!"

[11:33] Master Zephyr: ok, dident seem to bother anything ether way

[11:34] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: basicly we don't know if the issue we found are "normal" or we should mantis them

[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: ping times certainly seem to have shot up Teravus

[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, frame times, duh

[11:34] Teravus Ousley: 1700 pps :)

[11:34] Charles Krinke: Sacha. I think a hollowed out prim over a monorail might work better as it constrains the movement. You might suggest Kitto try that direction.

[11:34] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: yes

[11:34] Charles Krinke: rectangular cross-section would be my suggestion.

[11:35] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: and another issue was the "slow" reply from the server for the keyboard scrutation

[11:35] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: ie arrow driven

[11:35] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: the movment were very bumpy

[11:35] Charles Krinke: I would suggest we get the simplest physical vehicle, i.e. some sort of monorail and Mantis the issues and solve them one at a time.

[11:36] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: it was just a driven prim

[11:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: concerning vehicles: scripts still stop at sim borders - is anybody working on that?

[11:36] Charles Krinke: Otherwise, we are destined to write an article for the "Journal of Non-Reproducible Results"

[11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: ah that journal, I know it well

[11:37] Charles Krinke: Snoopy. I believe our scripts are "region-boundary-challenged" at this point.

[11:37] Teravus Ousley: 20 users so far..

[11:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok

[11:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: also avatars unsit at sim borders

[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: why are the stats lying?

[11:38] Master Zephyr: we mess w. it front time to time but, last i tryed it, i just sat on a block w. no script slid it over a boundry and all kinnda weird stuff happens right now

[11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: the client ones, that is

[11:38] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: something funny. i got better time here in HG than direct login

[11:38] Charles Krinke: I am trying to get us to setup some simple tests within a region until everyone can agree that vehicles and scripts within a region are working in a "tracked" manner and *then* make the track cross a region boundary.

[11:38] Teravus Ousley: I guess something happened that modified the counters when it shouldn't have

[11:38] Snoopy Pfeffer: really Sacha? next time I will come using hypergrid lol

[11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: ah I see - I thought we (you) knew the reason :)

[11:39] Richardus Raymaker: i need to come to.. if i figured out how

[11:39] Charles Krinke: Side Question: Would it be fair to say the simultaneous users counter does *not* count HyperGrid avatars on OSGrid?

[11:39] Fly Man: Charles, that seems so

[11:39] Fly Man: as those users aren't coming through the Userserver

[11:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: can we count both kinds of visitors independently?

[11:40] Charles Krinke: So, maybe our simultaneous users is not as low as we think from looking at our loginscreen or front page.

[11:40] Teravus Ousley: heh, on the bright side, the sim is reporting the correct time dilation to the client.. otherwise you'd be floating off as you walked and rebounding back.

[11:40] Charles Krinke: coolness, Teravus.

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: oh cool!

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: so there's compensation, eh?

[11:40] Teravus Ousley: even if it's reporting as 1.0 on the sim stats..

[11:41] Charles Krinke: Everybody. One of the side tests we do each week at "Office Hour" is just to observe that the sim actually runs the entire hour. Each week that happens, increases our confidence a little bit.

[11:41] Teravus Ousley: yeah, the interpolation client side, uses the time dilation as a factor

[11:41] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: right, right

[11:41] Fly Man: Yes, and it's still running ;)

[11:41] Fly Man: So a good sign for coming 2nd Birthday :)

[11:41] Charles Krinke: Its a "Miracle"

[11:48] Creativaty Watson is Online

[11:48] Blaksmith Rubble is Online

[11:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: oki

[11:49] Charles Krinke is Online

[11:49] Fly Man is Online

[11:49] Teravus Ousley is Online

[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[11:49] Blaksmith Rubble: lol.. talk about stressing the sim

[11:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol much lag

[11:49] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: yup

[11:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: too many ppl tp here at the same time

[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya

[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: good test though

[11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe

[11:50] LisaKathleen Kaligawa: hahahaha!

[11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[11:50] Snowdrop Short: there are some deadlocks when people tp in I think

[11:50] LisaKathleen Kaligawa: funnny

[11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: better use sit on target to move here

[11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya logins too

[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: its bad on mass logins

[11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[11:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: imagine big parties...

[11:50] Fly Man: k

[11:50] Tommi Laukkanen is Online

[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: 1

[11:51] Fly Man: Hahaha

[11:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: when yll tp at once

[11:51] Snowdrop Short: I noticed for the first time yesterday

[11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: jerktastic

[11:51] Blaksmith Rubble: heheh

[11:51] Fly Man: Well, the best test would be this weekend ;)

[11:51] Snowdrop Short: there was a lot of traffic on a neighbor sim

[11:51] Snoopy Pfeffer:.

[11:51] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: loadbalancing

[11:51] Charles Krinke: Wheeee

[11:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes :)

[11:51] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: we should test it

[11:51] Snowdrop Short: and tp in and out of my sim was pretty bad

[11:52] Snowdrop Short: even child ava's cause problems

[11:52] Charles Krinke: Ok, where were we?

[11:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: because of the physics settings?

[11:52] Teravus Ousley: locking

[11:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: for 64 bit servers use my ODE settings

[11:52] Fly Man: Uhm, you were explaining about the new release for the 2nd Bday ?

[11:52] Fly Man: if you wanted to release one before the Bday

[11:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: the others can cause 64 bit servers to crash when small avatars enter

[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: 0,0,0 looks good. but so alone

[11:53] Teravus Ousley: Only if they use your hack to shrink the capsule size

[11:53] Richardus Raymaker: hehe

[11:53] Teravus Ousley: .. and only on an old version.

[11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[11:53] Fly Man: But a quick update on the LSL test I have been running

[11:53] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: avt size make sim crashing ? origian l

[11:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: there are better ways to fix the bend legs problems on 64 bit servers

[11:53] Fly Man: I tested 45 LSL functions now

[11:54] Fly Man: and 19 of those don't "behave" the same way as in SL

[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: your setting seems to work fine snoopy.

[11:54] Teravus Ousley: .. since weeks before the last release, a patch went in to ensure that small avatars don't crash the simulator, even if it's misconfigured.

[11:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[11:54] Richardus Raymaker: and opensuse 64bit works fine to

[11:54] Alyvaral Aeghin: While we're all here, weekly speedbuild Sundays 1900 UTC (11am PST ) on Celt

[11:54] Snoopy Pfeffer: there is still that "on sale" and "sit target" bug for 64 bit servers

[11:54] Alyvaral Aeghin: and yes, opensuse works sweet ;-)

[11:55] Richardus Raymaker: \important question. is there a new recommended build for next week ?

[11:55] Charles Krinke: Fly-Man. How would you suggest we proceed on the differences between SL and OS for script function behaviour?

[11:55] Fly Man: Charles, depends ...

[11:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: on sale for a copy becomes on sale original after a restart

[11:55] Fly Man: I want to finish off the whole LSL list first

[11:55] Fly Man: then I will create a list of functions that aren't "compatible"

[11:55] Fly Man: to see if they need adjusting

[11:55] Blaksmith Rubble is Online

[11:55] Fly Man: and also I will update the list on the Wiki with the latest LSL functions

[11:56] Fly Man: so we have a all new list

[11:56] Snowdrop Short: how compatible do we want/can we be?

[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: i need to check that on my sim snoopy.

[11:56] Charles Krinke: "within reason" compatible.

[11:56] Fly Man: Snowdrop, well, that's a good question

[11:56] Fly Man: but I think as close as we can be

[11:56] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: we should provide some OS function if wecan't be SL

[11:56] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002 thinks vehicle

[11:56] Snoopy Pfeffer: Rich: best check that quickly before ppl start to demolish you shops lol

[11:56] Richardus Raymaker: with script as close a spossible i think.

[11:56] Fly Man: for the osFunctions, we can decide ourselves

[11:57] Fly Man: and if a LSL function can't be made working

[11:57] Fly Man: then we might change that to a osFunction

[11:57] Doctor Whiet: may i ask aquestion on a lslfunction here that seems to be already done but dont work. justinCC made it

[11:57] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool video Neb :)

[11:58] Charles Krinke: Sure, Dr. Ask away. But, since this is a strategic meeting, the answer is likely to be "Mantis"

[11:58] Nebadon Izumi D its royksopp

[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: they rule

[11:58] Fly Man: Charles, I was hoping that Sean was on IRC as well

[11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: Doctor: go on

[11:58] Fly Man: but didn't see him yet

[11:59] Doctor Whiet: the llgetsundirection as of the osgrid website it s implemented but it does not work .. also i read in the forums that there are 2 lists .. in one list its seems to be implemnted in the other not

[12:00] Master Zephyr: could OS functions be used temp. to get around the current short falls w. LSL?

[12:00] Fly Man: Master, yes and no

[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: Doctor: hmm, I don't think I've touched llGetSunDirection, what makes you think I was involved?

[12:00] Fly Man: Yes, they can

[12:00] Fly Man: No, it's not the thing to do at the moment ...

[12:00] Charles Krinke: Lets fix any real or perceived short falls first or we will go around this one forever.

[12:01] Fly Man: as it would still be the same function but then written from our point of view

[12:01] Amico.Djinn @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: the sun direction broke when the first libomv merge took place

[12:01] Snowdrop Short: why not matis it?

[12:01] Charles Krinke: We also have to sort out errors of scripting from errors of OpenSim.

[12:02] Master Zephyr: sun.z never has worked that i know of

[12:02] Fly Man: Yes, my question to Sean was to create a seperate category on the Mantis

[12:02] Master Zephyr: had to scrap some projects

[12:02] Tommi Laukkanen is Offline

[12:02] Amico.Djinn @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: it worked before the libomv merge

[12:02] Amico.Djinn @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: I used it

[12:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: one of my renters told me that llEmail does not work

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: you can make it work

[12:03] Master Zephyr: was just using as a day/night sw. worked in sl but....

[12:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: should it work

[12:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: ?

[12:03] Fly Man: Snoopy, correct

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: but its high risk

[12:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: so it is not implemented yet?

[12:03] Fly Man: Snoopy, it is

[12:03] Charles Krinke: Perhaps we need a few folks to each become the zealot on a different group of the 300+ functions to make sure we dont regress too much?

[12:03] Fly Man: But high risk function so disabled on Osgrid

[12:03] Snowdrop Short: but disabled, until you enable it I believe

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: to behonest until groups is implemented i do not recommend using the llemail function

[12:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok

[12:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is a security restriction at grid level?

[12:04] Fly Man: Nebadon and me tested it

[12:04] Fly Man: but it's a Grid High Risk

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: no its a security risk to your email server

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: not this grid

[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: what we really need is a zealot on writing c# unit tests for the script functions

[12:04] Snowdrop Short: I believe so, and you need to define the mail sever in the .ini

[12:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have increased the level to high risk

[12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps a new goal should be a thorough unit test for each of the 300 functions?

[12:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: still it did not work

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: yes wont work

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: you have ti turn on email

[12:04] Fly Man: justin, as we questioned before ....

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: smtp

[12:04] Charles Krinke: seems reasonable, Justin.

[12:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: search the wiki for smtp

[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: your answer you will find

[12:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool thanks Neb

[12:05] Fly Man: I would like to test all LSL functions with unit tests

[12:05] Fly Man: but until we can do that

[12:05] Fly Man: I will test them with the "Developers Library"

[12:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: is there are a wiki about switching off logins to regions during script loading?

[12:05] Fly Man: Snoopy, User Server => disable logins

[12:05] Blaksmith Rubble looks around .. did Neb turn into a green muppet there? heheh

[12:05] Charles Krinke: Side Question: "Do we have a new 'recommended' version for this week?"

[12:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: hm I just run region servers here

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure but the the commands are login-disable and login-enable

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: if its on the wiki its under those commands

[12:06] Fly Man: Charles, I believe the current version is stable

[12:06] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: or help on the console

[12:06] Snowdrop Short: it is help on the region console

[12:06] Fly Man: but my money is more on the one we released last week

[12:06] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: you can even restricted the login to a certain user class

[12:06] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: based on their godlevel

[12:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: the startup script switches it off?

[12:07] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: very helpfull for a mjaor restart

[12:07] Teravus Ousley: I dunno, but there's some kind of locking that's interfering with the heartbeat thread.

[12:07] Charles Krinke: I have heard good things on the mailing list about the r8068 (aka 0.6.2)

[12:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: and later after a delay it is enabled again?

[12:07] Fly Man: Yeah, the 0.6.2 runs like a charm

[12:07] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: you need to enabled them again

[12:07] Fly Man: no failures yet

[12:07] Teravus Ousley: .. note the sim FPS fluxuations

[12:07] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: .6.2 seems good

[12:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: will there be a new recommended version?

[12:07] Charles Krinke: Nebadon gets the prize for 0.6.2, out of the blue he said "lets tag trunk, it seems stable"

[12:08] Fly Man: Yeah :)

[12:08] Fly Man: Good pick then Nebadon :)

[12:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool

[12:08] Charles Krinke: First time that *ever* happened, usually I have to turn into a used car salesman to get folks to agree to a release.

[12:08] Master Zephyr: lol

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: heyy would like to welcome my hair to the party

[12:09] Fly Man: But Charles, you can always think on it on Friday to release a new version

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: everyone hair

[12:09] Fly Man: BUT:

[12:09] Master Zephyr: its worked ok for us, tps bumpy was maily all

[12:09] Teravus Ousley: heh

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: hair eveyrone

[12:09] Richardus Raymaker: 8068 sounds old..

[12:09] Fly Man: There are still open issues on teh 0.6.3

[12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: greetings Nebaon's hair - can I get you a drink?

[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[12:09] Charles Krinke: What are the issues to get to 0.6.3 that we have not addressed yet?

[12:10] Aramis Soren: was using 8120 last nite for several hours standalone, seemed good

[12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: charles: don't go too fast or we'll be near 1.0 before we're ready!

[12:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[12:10] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: what about HG ?

[12:10] Fly Man: Checking the issues now

[12:10] Charles Krinke: all we need to do is put a blocking issue at any "peers" pleasure and it will even out.

[12:10] Blaksmith Rubble: awww, you don't want to be .9999999.999 anytime soon? heheh

[12:10] Homer Horwitz: Well, who said 1.0 will be the final version? I think the first stable should be 3.14.15 :P

[12:10] Master Zephyr: 6.2.8164 seems ok sofar today if it matters

[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: still use 8087..

[12:11] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: i know a problem with mono 2.2 and HG

[12:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: what about potential interoperability issues - did we do protocol changes in the meantime?

[12:11] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: is it still the case ?

[12:11] Kitto.Flora @grid.k-grid.com:8002 arrives. LL Meet ended early!

[12:11] Charles Krinke: My vision is that we aim for 1.0.0 on 12/31/2009

[12:11] Master Zephyr: 60 regions UGAIM windows

[12:11] Fly Man: Mantis:

[12:11] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: hi kitto :)

[12:11] Kitto.Flora @grid.k-grid.com:8002: Hi Sacha

[12:11] Fly Man: 0002917, 0002855, 0002782 and 0002851

[12:11] Fly Man: those are the tagged ones for 0.6.2

[12:12] Charles Krinke: Where 1.0.0 is defined as "Implemented with reasonable stability all the functions and features an average user of an SL sim would expect"

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: this video is awesome

[12:12] Amico.Djinn @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: lol

[12:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[12:12] Richardus Raymaker: video dont work here after clean os install :/ sl it works

[12:12] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: i pasted your log kitto

[12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: right - but SL implementation is not a project goal Charles - making that the 1.0 goal may well give the wrong impression

[12:12] Fly Man: For 0.6.3 there's no roadmap

[12:13] Fly Man: BUT

[12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: when will it become beta?

[12:13] Charles Krinke: Ok, I am fading back to memo wars, manager pontification, posturing statements and circular meetings for the afternoon.

[12:13] Fly Man: for 0.6.4 there is 1

[12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I mean, not an official project goal

[12:13] Charles Krinke: 1.0.0 *is* Beta

[12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok :)

[12:13] Fly Man: and thats the User Profiles fully working

[12:13] Fly Man: (and that's 65 % done now )

[12:13] Charles Krinke: We are 62.00000000% of the way there.

[12:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: so many zeros after the dot?? lol

[12:14] Charles Krinke: +/- 3dB

[12:14] Fly Man: So, I hope that User profiles will be done "March"

[12:14] Charles Krinke: gotta go wrassle with RL. Thanks all. Please carry on.

[12:14] Charles Krinke: I will leave my avatar and read the log a bit later.

[12:15] Fly Man: K, time for me to grab some drinks and cookies

[12:15] Master Zephyr: i assume that TP issues ect are still beeing worked on?

[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, since we're at the top of the hour I am going to pop the hatch and float off into the never-never too

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: ok charles talk in a bit man

[12:15] Fly Man: Be back in 20

[12:15] Teravus Ousley: I think the meeting time is actually over.

[12:15] Fly Man is Offline

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: okie dokie, crash aside great meeting once again

[12:15] Snowdrop Short: I have to go as well

[12:15] Master Zephyr: ppl on our grids can get around but verry shaky

[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, by everybody

[12:15] Amico.Djinn @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: heh, only one restart cool

[12:15] Amico.Djinn @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: g'bye

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: bye Justin

[12:15] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

[12:15] Blaksmith Rubble: yah, RL is has been trying to yank me away as much as it could too

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya good meetig

[12:16] Homer Horwitz: Yep, have to hop out, too...

[12:16] Kitto.Flora @grid.k-grid.com:8002: Any developers here want to talk about Dynamics?

[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: no worries, times are tough, everyone who is not in this for the money, has real world bills

[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: so its understood

[12:16] Snowdrop Short: I'm leaving .. again and again

[12:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Snowdrop

[12:16] Alyvaral Aeghin: Everyone, speedbuild Sunday here, on Celt!

[12:16] Alyvaral Aeghin: be sure and come!

[12:16] Richardus Raymaker: hi kitto

[12:17] Alyvaral Aeghin: LOL

[12:17] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: Teravus

[12:17] sacha.Magne @grid.k-grid.com:8002: ?