Chat log from the meeting on 2009-12-15



[10:33] Object: Hello, Avatar!

[10:39] Will Boudreaux: is it ok for residents to sit in?

[10:42] Will Boudreaux: >:O

[10:47] Adelle Fitzgerald: ellos

[10:47] Warin Cascabel is Online

[10:47] Will Boudreaux: Hiya Adelle

[10:47] Will Boudreaux: is it ok for residents to sit in? or just for devs?

[10:48] Will Boudreaux: heya Warin

[10:48] Warin Cascabel: Howdy howdy howdy

[10:48] Adelle Fitzgerald: hello

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hey

[10:48] Will Boudreaux: hey Neb

[10:48] Adelle Fitzgerald: yeah sure Will

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: i put out the racer kit for everyone to grab

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: grab the box

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: i took the script out the rezzed car

[10:49] Adelle Fitzgerald: a new one?

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: so people dont try to drive it

[10:49] Warin Cascabel: Man, looking nice.

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:49] Will Boudreaux: nice

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: its v 1.51

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what version you have

[10:49] Adelle Fitzgerald: nice

[10:49] Will Boudreaux: grabbed myself a copy ty

[10:49] Adelle Fitzgerald: 1.50 or 1.49 i think

[10:49] Will Boudreaux: been in OKC drivin' alot lately haha

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: nice :)

[10:49] Warin Cascabel: 0.116 (lite) is the last one I had.

[10:50] Adelle Fitzgerald: i think i will try the sphere thing on my go-kart

[10:51] Adelle Fitzgerald: thats terrible at crossing prims

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya this is getting better

[10:51] Warin Cascabel: Oh, dammit, my HUDs are interfering again. What is it about plazas and HUDs?

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: once we have full LSL events

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: this car will run a heck of a lot better

[10:51] Adelle Fitzgerald: yeah

[10:51] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev) 6bd087a 2009-12-15 16:42:42 +0000 (Unix/Mono)

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: still lots of room for tuning too

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: if you look at the main script i have changed it alot

[10:52] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe we dont even have banking yet, and you got it running well already :)

[10:52] Will Boudreaux: so the racer kit is the scripts? or the actual vehicle?

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im paving the way for people to be able to tune the gears from the dash board menu

[10:52] Adelle Fitzgerald: i used a notecard in mine

[10:52] Adelle Fitzgerald: so i could set up the car as i wanted

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im going to make it so if you click the gear on the dashboard

[10:52] Adelle Fitzgerald: and its good every time i rez one

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: you can either select from a bank of numbers

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: or have a +/-

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: to up and down the #

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: for each gear

[10:53] Adelle Fitzgerald nods

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: for fine tuning

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: totally going overboard

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:53] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe

[10:53] Adelle Fitzgerald: you could do with making the color changing scripts and texture scripts a bit more efficient

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: eventually i could even make it so you can tune the weight of the tires

[10:54] Adelle Fitzgerald: i.e., just one script to change them all :P

[10:54] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: im going too

[10:54] Adelle Fitzgerald: cool

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: im gonna redo color change too

[10:54] Adelle Fitzgerald: its a pain, but well worth it

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: i want to see if i can find a script with a color grid

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: where you just click on the 1 prim

[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: and ti changes the color for the entire car

[10:54] Richardus Raymaker: nice car nebadon

[10:54] Adelle Fitzgerald: i have some color changing body armour i made in SL, it was over 100 scripts back in SL, i got it down to 10 scripts here

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: thanks grab a copy in the box

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: :)

[10:55] Entering god mode, level 255

[10:55] Adelle Fitzgerald: omg! my spelling! im starting to even spell like an American now! hehe

[10:55] Warin Cascabel: LOL

[10:55] Adelle Fitzgerald: thats your fault, Warin

[10:55] Michael Skelito: ello

[10:55] Adelle Fitzgerald: hi Mike

[10:55] Will Boudreaux: LOL!

[10:55] Warin Cascabel: Hello, Michael

[10:55] Will Boudreaux: Hiya Michael

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: hi all. phone

[10:56] Will Boudreaux: Hiya Rich

[10:56] Siggi Ludwig: hi all

[10:56] Will Boudreaux: Hi

[10:56] Adelle Fitzgerald: hello

[10:56] Warin Cascabel: Pretty soon you'll be bilingual, Adelle, you'll be able to speak both Standard and American English. :P

[10:56] nazaire finesmith: LOl snows

[10:56] Will Boudreaux: HAHAHAHA

[10:56] Michael Skelito: you guys just resart this?

[10:57] Michael Skelito: love the mem board

[10:57] Kevin Echo: Hey all

[10:57] Adelle Fitzgerald: i prolly am already, Warin, i just cant control it yet :P

[10:57] Will Boudreaux: heya Kevin

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i restarted the sim about 2 hours ago

[10:57] Adelle Fitzgerald: hello kevin

[10:57] Michael Skelito: look at mem

[10:57] Warin Cascabel: :)

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya

[10:57] Michael Skelito: not good

[10:58] Kevin Echo: Is mono having issues with not cleaning up memory?

[10:58] Adelle Fitzgerald: that scale, is it capped at 1024Mb?

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: this region used 2gb when no one is here

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its just how much this sim needs

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of content

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: lots of scripts

[10:58] Adelle Fitzgerald: yeah, if that is capped at 1024MB, its not doing too bad

[10:58] Adelle Fitzgerald: the scale that is

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: the scale is for 3.0gb

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: we are using 2.0gb

[10:58] Adelle Fitzgerald: ahh

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: right now

[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: which is normal

[10:58] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe

[10:59] Adelle Fitzgerald: wow

[10:59] Kevin Echo: I have an idea for LL.... Why dont they cluster all the sims up??? So if no ones in a sim other sims can use the processing power.

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: its what this sim always uses

[10:59] Penny Lane: Hiya Mojio

[10:59] Teravus Ousley is Online

[10:59] Adelle Fitzgerald: i didnt know taht much

[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: even when no one is here

[10:59] Michael Skelito: did you have something weird happen to lbsa earlier?

[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: well, still waiting till the have checked my server. before i can install :(

[10:59] Mojito Sorbet: Threads floating between boxes is sort of beyond LL's capabilities just now

[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: or.. why fix something if it works now to ..

[11:00] Teravus Ousley: nebadon, is this version of OpenSimulator recent?

[11:00] Warin Cascabel: The "concurrent users" graph seems low for the number of dots on my minimap.

[11:00] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev) 6bd087a 2009-12-15 16:42:42 +0000 (Unix/Mono)

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: :)

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: updated this morning

[11:01] Teravus Ousley: cool. That means it has the single threaded avatarupdate processing.

[11:01] Teravus Ousley: Should get a good idea of the improvement.. or random avatar disconnection :)

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: everyone be sure to grab a copy of the racer kit

[11:02] Samantha Fuller is Online

[11:02] Adam Frisby is Online

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: the rotating white box behind the car

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: has full perms car with all the scripts

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: and all the textures

[11:02] Will Boudreaux: .::whewt whewt::.

[11:02] Hiro Protagonist is Online

[11:02] Kevin Echo: Cars work?

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: has texture template you can add your own to the decal menu on the dashboard

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[11:02] Kevin Echo: Cool.

[11:02] Adam Frisby yawns

[11:02] Adam Frisby: Morning.

[11:02] Will Boudreaux: Heya Adam

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: just edit the decal button on the dash

[11:02] Kevin Echo: Hello Adam.

[11:02] Warin Cascabel: Morning, Adam

[11:02] Adelle Fitzgerald: morning Adam

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: and add name:uuid

[11:03] Teravus Ousley: morning Adam

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: for texture to the notecard

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hey Adam

[11:03] Will Boudreaux: it's fast too haha in 5th gear, can't hardly keep it on the road hahaha

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:03] Will Boudreaux: can't hardly = can't at all

[11:03] Will Boudreaux: lol

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya im working towards having it so you can click the gears on the dashboard

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and tune them

[11:03] Will Boudreaux: NICE

[11:03] Adam Frisby: Might want to put that in a HUD

[11:03] Will Boudreaux: runs smoothly tho

[11:03] Kevin Echo: Could Opensim use havoc???

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: techniclly it could

[11:04] Adam Frisby: Havok Physics? yeah in theory.

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and techinclally it cant

[11:04] Penny Lane: It's closed

[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: you cant use it for free

[11:04] Teravus Ousley: if Havok's license was happy.. but it's not.

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: not here

[11:04] Adam Frisby: In practice tho, it probably wouldnt really be that much better than ODE

[11:04] Will Boudreaux: hi

[11:04] Adam Frisby: at least for rigid body physics with convex shapes.

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya as far as i am concerned

[11:04] Hiro Protagonist: I'm convinced ODE is better

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and i think most who try this car

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: will see that ODE is superior

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: to LL Havok

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: event Havok 4

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: even*

[11:05] Adam Frisby: ODE just has stupid design flaws that result in work for Teravus here.

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya but that could be any of the engines

[11:05] Hiro Protagonist: what a fine job he has done withit thus far tho

[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Bullet has worse flaws right?

[11:05] Adam Frisby: Heh

[11:05] Teravus Ousley: hah, the ODE Developers have delt with them so long that they call them 'features' now.

[11:05] Adam Frisby: Bullet might be better in theory maybe.

[11:05] Warin Cascabel: Heh, Teravus

[11:05] Adam Frisby: Dunno. Ter is the most qualified to talk about physics engines really.

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: heh, I'm still having issues with the bullet port :)

[11:06] Teravus Ousley: On another topic.. I tried using jiglib.. but also ran into some issues.

[11:06] Michael Skelito: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=4396 <ODE ???

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya i would not expect same results as SL

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: thats not really a bug i would say

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: for that mantis that is

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its because the avatar capsule

[11:07] Adelle Fitzgerald: a lot of taht ahs to do with the avatar capsule

[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: is way diff than SL

[11:08] Adelle Fitzgerald: make the capsule wider, you get up stairs easier

[11:08] Adam Frisby: Capsule stuff appears to be rather problematic lately.

[11:08] Michael Skelito: capsule ode?

[11:08] Adelle Fitzgerald: but then you cant get close to things

[11:08] Teravus Ousley: Skelito: that's one of the 'bugs' with the ODEPlugin that's been there so long.. that we now regard them as 'features' :P

[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:08] Adelle Fitzgerald: make it thin, you get close to things, but cant walk up prims

[11:08] Will Boudreaux: lol

[11:08] Michael Skelito: nln fixed it

[11:08] Penny Lane: Wasn't there a common physics API project that sought to reconcile the differences between phys engines, and allow you to code to a single API? (Might have been PAR, or something like that)

[11:08] Teravus Ousley: Yes, but it's highly incomplete

[11:08] Adam Frisby: Penny: yes. But it's not very good.

[11:08] Penny Lane: Awww :-(

[11:09] Adam Frisby: It's been recommended umpteen times to us.

[11:09] Teravus Ousley: No moving tri-mesh, for example.

[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya its more incomplete feature than bug

[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: hi whi i missed

[11:09] Michael Skelito: christmas

[11:09] Michael Skelito: so capsule is ODE then

[11:10] Teravus Ousley: the ODEPlugin uses a capsule

[11:10] Adam Frisby: The capsule means the avatar representation

[11:10] Teravus Ousley: .. it's shaped like a pill

[11:10] Adam Frisby: Avatars are represented as capsule meshes internally.

[11:10] Adam Frisby: Rather than say a box which would just suddenly 'stop' regularly.

[11:10] Adam Frisby: rather than try climb stairs.

[11:11] Penny Lane: Well there's trouble ahead in that area, not with incompatible physics (which are always going to vary across VWs), but at the API level. New APIs for new worlds is not a viable approach.

[11:11] Adam Frisby: The problem comes is that the capsule size is a trade off.

[11:11] Adam Frisby: You can make it bigger; climb stuff better -- but then the minimum distance you can fit through is increased.

[11:11] Adam Frisby: and you bump into stuff further away

[11:11] Adam Frisby: Penny: Our Physics API is abstracted.

[11:11] Will Boudreaux: kinda like a bounding box?

[11:11] Hiro Protagonist: very like

[11:11] Will Boudreaux: surrounding your avatar?

[11:11] Will Boudreaux: gotcha

[11:12] Hiro Protagonist: teravus is modeling the geometry now

[11:12] Samantha Fuller: Dose the capsul resize with taller avatars in SL i rember some steps smaller AV's couldent go up

[11:12] Will Boudreaux: gonna ne alot of water to take that one

[11:12] Teravus Ousley: It does, Samantha

[11:12] Adam Frisby: Samantha: Good question. I have a feeling it might be fixed size.

[11:13] Adam Frisby: Oh interesting.

[11:13] Hiro Protagonist: the simple solution is to make th visual aspect of your stairs be phantom, and place a translucent ramp to support the physical simulation

[11:13] Michael Skelito: thats a work around

[11:13] Adam Frisby: The problem basically is this:

[11:13] Will Boudreaux: yea that approach has become second nature in my builds

[11:13] Adelle Fitzgerald: its worked for years in SL with sculptie stairs

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: personally i like how ramps transition better anyway

[11:13] Hiro Protagonist: no, it's a workflow that accomodates every avatar size

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: than actual stairs

[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i always use ramps myself

[11:13] Adelle Fitzgerald: me too

[11:13] Adam Frisby: Games get around this problem -- by having seperate collision meshes that are designed by artists at the same time as the actual design mesh.

[11:14] Adam Frisby: In SL, since they are the same - it leads to a unique technical problem.

[11:14] Hiro Protagonist: plus, the ramp can be utulized in th building process to provide a guide for stair placement and grade

[11:14] Adam Frisby: If you use modrex, you'll see it has a setting under the appearance mesh to allow you to specify an alternate collision mesh.

[11:14] Michael Skelito: does the capsule cause the avatar squat?

[11:14] Penny Lane: BB's need to be user-definable. One size capsules aren't going to work for anything except "standard" situations.

[11:14] Kevin Echo: I'm wondering where assets are stored. Like when i go to myOpenGrid and get asets and use them in OsGrid. Where are they stored? Loading from MyOpenGrid or OsGrid Asset server when i'm on OsGrid. Like does it copy them???

[11:14] Adam Frisby: Penny: they can be defined in the .ini

[11:14] Kevin Echo: using hyper grid

[11:15] Teravus Ousley: Note how the green cube is below the curve of the bottom of the capsule.

[11:15] Teravus Ousley: Note how the red cube is above the bottom curve of the capsule

[11:15] Michael Skelito: ahhh

[11:15] Teravus Ousley: .. In this scenario.. the avatar would be able to get on the green one by walking.. but be blocked by the red one.

[11:15] Penny Lane: Adam: I guess that .ini config could be replaced by a dynamic loadable approach? Just more work? (Lotta work, hehe)

[11:16] Zardoz Firanelli: So the curvature is teh max step limit

[11:16] Samantha Fuller: but can the capsul be automaticaly tiped on its side to suport crawling under obsticals

[11:16] Adam Frisby: Penny: why would you want it dynamic - out of curiosity?

[11:16] Teravus Ousley: exactly Zardoz :)

[11:16] Zardoz Firanelli: step height limit

[11:16] Adam Frisby: Samantha: yep - that's what the avatar_tilt setting dones.

[11:16] Adam Frisby: does*

[11:16] Penny Lane: Adam: because objects change dynamically.

[11:16] Adam Frisby: Unfortunately that one seems to be bringing it's own suite of bugs.

[11:16] Adam Frisby: Penny: this is for avatars only.

[11:16] Richardus Raymaker: crawling, that would be nice.

[11:17] Michael Skelito: sometimes the avies comes off steps and does the squats...capsule?

[11:17] Zardoz Firanelli: Does the spped affect the height of the step, sometimes taking a run at it helps

[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: you could do crawling with AO

[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: thats easy

[11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: can I try it?

[11:17] Penny Lane: Adam: the separation between objects and avatars is just LL historic nonsense. That'll disappear once data includes deformable meshes.

[11:17] Teravus Ousley: I'll have to move it to actual avatar level :).

[11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ah ok, no probs then :)

[11:18] Adam Frisby: Penny: well, I'll make a difference between Character Actors and Object Actors -- the problem is we really dont want to be at this stage calculating realistic character collision meshes.

[11:18] Samantha Fuller: The tilt setting needs to be acesable by ones AO to alow crawling

[11:18] Adam Frisby: it requires doing stuff like character animation serverside

[11:18] Adam Frisby: which I fear might be a little too CPU intensive.

[11:18] Adam Frisby: Not to say 5 years down the road we shoudlnt be preparing for that.

[11:18] Mojito Sorbet: The collision shape SL uses now is only a bit different form this capsule shape.

[11:18] Hiro Protagonist: at least until that new 1024 core intel box comes out :3

[11:18] Adam Frisby: SL probably use a plain capsule too -- most games & VW's do.

[11:19] Adam Frisby: It's pretty industry standard.

[11:19] Mojito Sorbet: There is a way to see the collision bubble with the viewer. It is one of the view options. SOmehting about "skeleton"

[11:19] Mojito Sorbet: Under Advanced

[11:19] Adam Frisby: Really?

[11:19] Teravus Ousley: yeah, it isn't that great though.

[11:19] Mojito Sorbet: Hold lon, I will find it

[11:19] UUID Speaker: Hannibal Peck: 22317efe-3cfa-3293-ec5f-b741a4592fec

[11:20] Penny Lane: Adam: one doesn't have to go all the way, as clearly there are tech limits in 2009. But for example, the need to log in a bot to act as a fashion model is totally LL nonsense --- it would be *less* overhead to made avatar meshes just ordinary objects in the world, rezzavble without login.

[11:20] Mojito Sorbet: It is somethin gyhou learn when you learn SL swordplay

[11:20] Adelle Fitzgerald: i dont think that displays it properly though, and it used to vrash my viewer a lot

[11:20] Adam Frisby: I wonder how accurate that is to ours.

[11:20] Will Boudreaux: wireframe under rendering i think

[11:20] Adam Frisby: Penny: Well that's just enabling meshes really.

[11:20] Mojito Sorbet: Advanced->Character->Show collision skelton

[11:20] Penny Lane: Deformable though

[11:20] Adelle Fitzgerald: Advanced --> Character --> Show Colissions Skeleton

[11:20] Teravus Ousley: (advanced --> Character -->Show collision Skell.... yeah.. what they said.

[11:20] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe

[11:20] Adam Frisby: You could abstract characters & objects together -- but you'd lose a bit of power by going quite so generic.

[11:21] Mojito Sorbet: ``It gets wide at the bottom, like a skirt

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats weird

[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: why is a diamond?

[11:21] Mojito Sorbet: But I do not think that is what makes you go upstairs

[11:21] Adam Frisby: Weird, I dont have that setting.

[11:21] reset button: Reset

[11:21] Adelle Fitzgerald: i think its just the way the viewer renders it

[11:21] Adam Frisby: Hrrrm.

[11:21] Michael Skelito: from nlin > In other words, I think we need to design a new capsule handling algorithm to do this properly. One example is here: http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/OgreOde_Walking_Character

[11:21] Adelle Fitzgerald: or maybe in SL they use a diamond?

[11:21] Adam Frisby: Would a oblong spheroid work better than a capsule?

[11:21] Mojito Sorbet: With the Linden viewer, it used to be a black saolid shape

[11:21] Penny Lane: Imprudence has that menu entry. And it's 100% stable in OSgrid

[11:21] Adam Frisby: It'd have more 'difficulty' on sharp slopes, but it would climb them... slowly.

[11:22] Mojito Sorbet: *solid

[11:22] Mojito Sorbet: And it was smooth, not sharp

[11:22] Mojito Sorbet: Unless they changed it form when I was learning swords

[11:22] Zardoz Firanelli: Is there an underlying technical reason why things are not to scale?

[11:22] Teravus Ousley: well, the other thing.. is the collision representation isn't really in regards to physics..

[11:22] Mojito Sorbet: The collision skirt is tied to your neck, oddly enough

[11:23] Adam Frisby: Ter: does ODE handle oblong spheroids natively?

[11:24] Adam Frisby: Or would we have to make a trimesh for em?

[11:24] Michael Skelito: Neb delete the overhang on your balacony here...everyone runs into it lol

[11:24] Teravus Ousley: no, it would have to be trimesh.. or a composite object.

[11:24] Adam Frisby: Could I guess composite three spheres

[11:24] Adam Frisby: Two smallish ones at the ends, one large one in the middle.

[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: or give more hardhats skilto

[11:24] Michael Skelito: lol

[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: selito

[11:24] Richardus Raymaker: soory pjone

[11:25] Adam Frisby: -ish

[11:25] Michael Skelito: oh nice capsule

[11:25] Richardus Raymaker: phone

[11:26] Michael Skelito: just put a ball under your first one

[11:26] Michael Skelito: :)

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: did you let go after linking it?

[11:28] Teravus Ousley: hmm, that's not right..

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: it wont mesh again

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: unless you let go

[11:28] Teravus Ousley: I did

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: so it would still be a sphere

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ah hmm

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: maybe just lag?

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: so many people here

[11:28] Michael Skelito: Neb get my overhang comment?

[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: overhang?

[11:29] Adam Frisby: Sims seems fine tho.

[11:29] Vera Jonson: hi =)

[11:29] Will Boudreaux: hiya Vera

[11:29] Michael Skelito: yes out on balacony erveryone runs into it

[11:29] Teravus Ousley: the other problem with capsules.. in the past.. is.. one push.. and down they go!

[11:29] Adam Frisby: Also, side topic

[11:29] Will Boudreaux rubs the knot on his head lol

[11:29] Michael Skelito: lol

[11:29] Snoopy Pfeffer is Online

[11:29] Adam Frisby: We could use a load test soonish, so we can test Ter's new sync/async packet changes.

[11:29] Adam Frisby: hehe

[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya just say the word

[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: im sure we can load some people in wherever

[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, how is that working out so far Ter? Did you actually change things or replicate the current status quo?

[11:30] Teravus Ousley: I changed things.

[11:30] Penny Lane: Adam: any excuse for a party will do :P

[11:30] Teravus Ousley: it's active right now.. here..

[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: feels pretty good so far

[11:30] Adam Frisby: I've taken a look at it - I think we'll see some pretty decent improvements.

[11:30] Will Boudreaux: i agree with Penny on that one lol

[11:30] Adam Frisby: But, we really need a bunch of tests to find out

[11:30] Adam Frisby: I still want to break 100 avs in a single sim without an implosion

[11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: yes

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya 100 avatars would be awesome

[11:31] Michael Skelito: moving or sitting lol

[11:31] Penny Lane: Talking of parties, is there an OSgrid Xmas party some time? :-)

[11:31] Adam Frisby: Frankly I want to have 1000 - but I know on a technical level we simply cannot do it with LLUDP

[11:31] Will Boudreaux: if i know when, i can get at least 6 peeps in

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not sure but if you are planning a party be sure to post it on the Elgg Website

[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: and forums too

[11:32] Adam Frisby: The big problem is doing a load test properly tends not to be very entertaining.

[11:32] Adam Frisby: Since we need everyone to relog every 15 minutes

[11:32] Adam Frisby: Other lesson learned is we need better communication via an outside medium

[11:32] Adam Frisby: so we dont have people hammer the sim while it's rebooting

[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: well

[11:33] Will Boudreaux: IRC perhaps?

[11:33] Kevin Echo: Why does it say i can take the floor?

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: we need to fix it so people can not teleport in when login disable is on

[11:33] Penny Lane: Does rejecting logins have a high load penalty?

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: then we wouldnht have to manage anything

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: doh

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: Ter

[11:33] Will Boudreaux: Ahh!

[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: arrrrrrhj, I'm soeasily suggestible

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you erased floor

[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: my fault

[11:33] Adam Frisby: Penny: nah, there's just some bugs in that area.

[11:33] Vera Jonson: lol

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: oh

[11:33] Michael Skelito: lol

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: justin?

[11:33] Hiro Protagonist: uhm

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: rez it again

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i'll fix

[11:33] Aaron Duffy: 'can' does not equall 'should'

[11:33] Adam Frisby: I always thought this building should be only one storey.

[11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah right ok

[11:33] Kevin Echo: I should of not said that...

[11:33] Teravus Ousley: whoops

[11:33] Will Boudreaux: HAHA!

[11:33] Hiro Protagonist: someone just deleted the upper floor lol

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: whoever ersed floor

[11:33] Kevin Echo: lol

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: rez it i will fix it

[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: oh no

[11:34] Penny Lane: Adam: ah, hehe :-) Well treat exercising the bugs as a feature ^_^

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its not linked?

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: oh it is

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: cool

[11:34] Will Boudreaux: that coulda left a mark

[11:34] Kevin Echo: I can take he roof also.

[11:34] Teravus Ousley: did someone take the floor?

[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry - I'm like the guy who can't resist clicking on the punch the monkey

[11:34] Teravus Ousley: heh

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll just sit here quietly now

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: eh close enough

[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: sorry about that

[11:35] Hiro Protagonist: lol Justin

[11:35] Vera Jonson: you mean donot push the red button?

[11:35] Hiro Protagonist: "punch the monkey"

[11:35] Penny Lane: I just can't get over this stability, Opensim+Imprudence. Damn it's nice.

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:35] Adam Frisby: Yeah, I was saying that earlier

[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: vera: exactly

[11:35] Adam Frisby: OpenSim crashing is suprising me more than it not.

[11:35] Kevin Echo: `I wonder why it allows people to take somthings but not all...

[11:35] Adam Frisby: Which is a radical shift.

[11:35] Hiro Protagonist: dont get spoilt it isnt always thus

[11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: kevin: don't tempt me :)

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya even with people whipping around on 208 prim cars

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: on my server at my house

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: over cable modem

[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ive had 4-5 people all going at once

[11:35] Adam Frisby: Mem use is a lot better too

[11:36] Adam Frisby: although I am still seeing a leak

[11:36] Penny Lane: I forsee a nice Xmas. And 2010 will the The Year of Opensim.

[11:36] Teravus Ousley: Nebadon mentioned that..

[11:36] Teravus Ousley: hard to find it though :/

[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: everyone who came late be sure to grab a copy of the Racer Kit in the box

[11:36] Adam Frisby: me & neb added these new plaza monitors which will let us get a little more of a 'hard' handle on the leaks

[11:36] Richardus Raymaker: yes penny

[11:36] Adam Frisby: The Memory Usage bar is calibrated to either 1GB (everywhere but here), or 2GB (here)

[11:36] Adam Frisby: so 100% White = 2GB here, everywhere else = 1GB

[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: I dont like being a doomsayer, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I suspect we have a little rough period ahead around the first of th year

[11:37] Warin Cascabel: Are those monitors available anywhere, Adam?

[11:37] Hiro Protagonist: the rest of the grid services will be added to robust

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: oh btw Adam

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: we need a new stat

[11:37] Hiro Protagonist: that will mean a protocol bump

[11:37] Adam Frisby: Warin: I'll give one to you later.

[11:37] Kevin Echo: I want an Monitor...

[11:37] Adam Frisby: oh?

[11:37] Warin Cascabel: Cool, thanks.

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that board shows Monos Memory usage

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but not OpenSim

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: this sim is showing 500mb aprox on teh show stats

[11:37] Adam Frisby: Neb: actually honestly -- it's the same. In every way that counts.

[11:37] Richardus Raymaker: i like the system counter on lbsa

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: 644 actually

[11:37] Adam Frisby: GC.GetTotalMemory appears wrong.

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ok

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: well maybe we need to fix that then

[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[11:38] Hiro Protagonist: anyway

[11:38] Adam Frisby: Well that's a CLR issue

[11:38] Adam Frisby: out of our bounds

[11:38] Hiro Protagonist: anyone managing more than a few regions will want to plan ahead for the oming protocol bump

[11:38] Adam Frisby: Coming protobump?

[11:38] Hiro Protagonist: yeah

[11:39] Adam Frisby: Who's bumping it?

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ?

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: I suspect we'll do a forced update after everything goes completely robust

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya but no real ETA

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: actually yes

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: month or so i expect

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: end of january

[11:39] Adam Frisby: Yeah, that I'm expecting

[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: last meeting Diva and Mel said the end of the month

[11:39] Adam Frisby: I'mmagonnabreakstuff.

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: end of January

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: not dec

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: i think

[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: but maybe not

[11:39] Will Boudreaux: lol

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: we'll see i know she has time off soon

[11:40] Penny Lane: Leave a few bugs in. We have to be able to say "Robust is broken".

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but im not sure robust will be complete in that time

[11:40] Adelle Fitzgerald: im sure i heard finished by the 1st week in Jan

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: she was talking about getting started....either yesterday or the 18th, I forget which

[11:40] Samantha Fuller is Offline

[11:40] Adam Frisby: I was hearing Diva would start work on the 17th of this month

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: let me see

[11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: these are open source schedules we're talking here you know :)

[11:40] Adam Frisby: I dont think there's a whoooole bunch of work in porting the userserver over.

[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i have notes here from other day we spoke

[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: right around now, gier take a day

[11:40] Adam Frisby: but there is christmas breaks.

[11:41] Hiro Protagonist: I thin they lan doing it n Christmas break

[11:41] Will Boudreaux: i think it was the 18th from teh logs i read

[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think its 17th or 18th

[11:41] Will Boudreaux: Diva that is

[11:41] Penny Lane: Diva's 2 weeks off started this week I think, and she said she was going full steam ahead in that time

[11:41] Hiro Protagonist: yep

[11:41] Hiro Protagonist: anyway

[11:41] Hiro Protagonist: maybe it wont be a forced bump

[11:41] Hiro Protagonist: I think it probably should be

[11:41] Adam Frisby: Hrm

[11:42] Adam Frisby: Only if it has hard protocol changes I think

[11:42] Will Boudreaux: same really..

[11:42] Teravus Ousley: weird how I can jump up objects here :/

[11:42] Adam Frisby: Personally I want to change the bump system

[11:42] Adam Frisby: so it's instead a range.

[11:42] Adam Frisby: Especially when some stuff is not reaaally incompatible wtih the old.

[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: yeah I thought we had that actually

[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: now that you mention it

[11:42] Adelle Fitzgerald: i believe onve ROBUST is fully rolled out, there will be no protocol bumps as such anymore

[11:42] Adelle Fitzgerald: *once

[11:43] Adelle Fitzgerald: Mel or Diva can confirm that though

[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: adelle: mmm, nothing about ROBUST makes protocol bumps less like afaik

[11:43] Teravus Ousley: not the window though.

[11:43] Adam Frisby: Nah, we've still got protocols to change

[11:43] Penny Lane: What's that video encoded with Neb? Works well with Linux

[11:43] Adam Frisby: But I think 0.7 is going to be a fairly major release of OpenSim.

[11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be nicest to come up with protocols that are more backward compatible

[11:43] Adelle Fitzgerald: i thought the idea of ROBUST was so the protocols stay pretty much the same, and its stuff behind it that will change

[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: adelle: no, I think that concept is orthagonal

[11:44] Hiro Protagonist whispers: actually there was a lot of simplification and combining of projects and such

[11:44] Hiro Protagonist: tie everything to a single prot/service

[11:44] Hiro Protagonist: *port

[11:44] Penny Lane: Don't worry about SL backwards compatibility. We're moving them forward instead, via VWRAP.

[11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the idea behind ROBUST is to allow more flexibility over where services are run, which services are run and to enable easier more modular experimentation

[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm guessing though :)

[11:45] Adam Frisby: Justin: basically.

[11:45] Hiro Protagonist: actually Justin that too

[11:45] Adelle Fitzgerald: i guess we will find out soon enough ;)

[11:45] Adam Frisby: It's recognising that the services are infact collections of other services; and you should be able to mix and match any of them.

[11:45] Hiro Protagonist: robust is good, I just dont care much for thename

[11:45] Adam Frisby: I liked the old name better.

[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: better than bust.... imo ;)

[11:45] Adelle Fitzgerald: i do prefer the name BUST :P

[11:45] Adam Frisby: >_>

[11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: bah

[11:45] Will Boudreaux: LOL!

[11:45] Hiro Protagonist: I think OpenSim.Grid.Server.exe is fine

[11:46] Adam Frisby: BUST> load implant gridserver;

[11:46] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe

[11:46] Adam Frisby: (yes, implants was melanies original name for plugins for it)

[11:46] Adam Frisby: Alas.

[11:46] Teravus Ousley: >.>

[11:46] Hiro Protagonist: lulz

[11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: somebody has to be the po-faced politically correct one

[11:46] Penny Lane: Eg. running an asset service on your home sim rolls HG into Robust. Running an asset service on your PC rolls arbitrary VW tourism into ROBUST. It's very flexible.

[11:46] Adelle Fitzgerald: Teravus, mega regions, terraforming and packets....

[11:47] Teravus Ousley: ah, yes. I havn't solved that one yet.

[11:47] Adelle Fitzgerald: is it possible to have the terraforming packets work the same in child regions, as the root region?

[11:47] Adelle Fitzgerald: ahh okies

[11:47] Teravus Ousley: the major issue.. is .. don't flood the user with packets that they can't get :)

[11:47] Penny Lane: Not sure that ROBUST allows multiple simultaneous asset services though. That's required for VW tourism.

[11:47] Adelle Fitzgerald: ive been 'living' on a mega now for about 2 weeks, and so far my experiences of it have been fantastic, except for terrain stuff

[11:48] Adelle Fitzgerald: all of which i think you probably know about

[11:48] Hiro Protagonist: I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate that the packet payload for a terraform packet uses a single byte integer to carry data about the terraform, and tht the child region offsets overflow the packet payload

[11:48] Teravus Ousley: yeah. Sorry.. I've been busy with life and work

[11:48] Adelle Fitzgerald: oh its ok really

[11:48] Teravus Ousley: Nah, the reason is.. Child agent throttles are set significantly lower.. so as not to flood the UDP connection

[11:49] Hiro Protagonist: ahhhh, ok

[11:49] Teravus Ousley: so.. when you modify the terain.. much more of the terrain packets get stuck in the throttle... they eventually get to you.. but by the time they do.. it isn't in any useful fashion..

[11:49] Teravus Ousley: (in a child agent region)

[11:50] Adelle Fitzgerald: in the opensim.ini, there are a few seperate throttles, could one of those be tweeked to compensate for it?

[11:50] Hiro Protagonist: so with the recent commits you've made involving arbitrary designation of packet priorities, could it be addressed?

[11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, has anybody here ever run a grid and encountered occasional problems when the message service contracts the user service?

[11:50] Teravus Ousley: I don't think so Adelle.

[11:50] Adelle Fitzgerald: kk

[11:51] Teravus Ousley:. . It should come from the megaregion code.. IMO

[11:51] Hiro Protagonist: sorry teravus, I dont mean to be pressing an issue or anything, just trying to 'get' a bit about the problem, and about how megaregionswork :)

[11:51] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.6.9 (Dev) 6bd087a 2009-12-15 16:42:42 +0000 (Unix/Mono)

[11:52] Adelle Fitzgerald: i am so far very impressed with them

[11:52] Teravus Ousley: no. The recent commit has to do with threading.. not priority.

[11:52] Hiro Protagonist: oh ok, my bad, I misunderstood then what Adam related to m

[11:52] Teravus Ousley: some incoming packets are processed on the threadpool.. some are processed in the context of the UDP Server.

[11:52] Hiro Protagonist: *me

[11:53] Hiro Protagonist: zomg this graphics system sux FYI - my framerate must be fractional

[11:53] Teravus Ousley: it seems to actually have worked pretty well so far. :)

[11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah :)

[11:53] Lee Oldrich: Hi Folks

[11:54] Will Boudreaux: HIya Lee

[11:54] Vera Jonson: hello lee =)

[11:54] Hiro Protagonist: Hey Lee

[11:54] Valerie Boucher: Hiya

[11:54] Adelle Fitzgerald: as they are a mega region, why couldnt all the child regions run at the same throttles as the root, or would that make this thing implode?

[11:54] Will Boudreaux: i'm not getting any lag, chat lag or anything of the like

[11:54] Will Boudreaux: hiya Val

[11:54] Teravus Ousley: That would probably make the throttle system implode :)

[11:54] Teravus Ousley: .. or rather.. the UDP connection..

[11:55] Teravus Ousley: the reason.. is.. there's only so much your connection can handle at the same time.

[11:55] Teravus Ousley: the server can send it all out really fast.

[11:55] Teravus Ousley: .. but if it doesn't get to you.. it's of no use :)

[11:55] Adelle Fitzgerald nods

[11:55] Kevin Echo: I think i might put up a sim again. I soved what was eating all my ram...

[11:56] Will Boudreaux: what was it?

[11:56] Will Boudreaux: ◄███▓▒░░.✰ ☆ SURPRISE BUTTSECKS ✰ ☆.░░▒▓███►

[11:56] Teravus Ousley notes that Kevin Echo is suffereing from the away/back/away syndrome :)

[11:56] Michael Skelito: your avie is throwing up

[11:56] Kevin Echo: I'm lazy so i installed a contorl panel.

[11:56] Valerie Boucher: LOL

[11:56] Will Boudreaux: lol sorry

[11:56] Valerie Boucher: hahahaha

[11:56] Michael Skelito: Kevins avie

[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[11:57] Kevin Echo: Well i run everything as root.

[11:57] Will Boudreaux: damn triggers

[11:57] Teravus Ousley: away/back/away/back :)

[11:57] Kevin Echo: So i redid my server with Centos and not ubuntu.

[11:57] Michael Skelito: poor guy

[11:57] Kevin Echo: Someone found out how to hack stuff becuse everything was root!

[11:57] Will Boudreaux: ouch

[11:57] Teravus Ousley: ah, that'll do it.

[11:57] Kevin Echo: So i was like lets try Cent this time

[11:57] Richardus Raymaker: run under root ? omg

[11:58] Michael Skelito: stand Kevin

[11:58] Michael Skelito: omg

[11:58] Teravus Ousley: Penny, ever track down what the cause for the away/back/away/back syndrome was?

[11:59] Teravus Ousley: I'll take that as an absent.. no.

[11:59] Penny Lane: Tera: no

[11:59] Kevin Echo: did they fix the issues with xen in mono?

[11:59] Teravus Ousley: oh hehe.

[11:59] Kevin Echo: somthing with the network when you tp it loves to crash the sim...

[12:00] Kevin Echo: I use Linode and had issues with my sim before... I dont have a backup of the file that fixed it.

[12:00] Teravus Ousley: his client is messing up.. and setting himself away and back really fast.

[12:00] Will Boudreaux: haha looks like he's headbanging

[12:00] Richardus Raymaker: im most happy with opensuse

[12:00] Kevin Echo: I'm using Hippo

[12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm out of here. Thanks very much for the demo Teravus. Bye everyone

[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya suse is pretty sweet

[12:00] Michael Skelito: oh there

[12:01] Lee Oldrich: Bye Justin

[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: later Justin

[12:01] Penny Lane: Cyu JCC

[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye jcc

[12:01] Will Boudreaux: TC Justin

[12:01] Kevin Echo: Hippo OpenSim Viewer 0.5.1 (LL 1.22.11) Mar 24 2009 17:47:38 (Hippo Release)

[12:01] Teravus Ousley: see ya on IRC justin

[12:01] Hiro Protagonist is out too

[12:01] Hiro Protagonist waves

[12:01] Will Boudreaux: TC Hiro

[12:01] Will Boudreaux: ^5

[12:01] Teravus Ousley: yeah, it happens on the Linden client as well Kevin.

[12:01] Adelle Fitzgerald: bye Hiro

[12:01] Penny Lane: Imprudence 1.2.1 / Second Life 1.22.11 (0), Nov 25 2009 21:02:54 --- rocks!

[12:01] Aaron Duffy: Bye all

[12:01] Will Boudreaux: gotta link Penny?

[12:01] Will Boudreaux: byes Aaron

[12:01] Teravus Ousley: we havn't figured out what.. exactly causes it.

[12:01] Richardus Raymaker: i hope we get someday a newer hippo. or that the copy the grid cobfig

[12:02] Kevin Echo: Is there a better client?

[12:02] Will Boudreaux: is any one working on a viewer specifically for OSG?

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: Imprudence

[12:02] Adelle Fitzgerald: Penny, will Imprudence support prims larger than 10m?

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i recommend for now

[12:02] Kevin Echo: warning: mono2-2.4-ossafe_2.i386.rpm: Header V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 20b4d2af error: Failed dependencies: libglib-2.0.so.0 is needed by mono2-2.4-ossafe_2.i386 libgmodule-2.0.so.0 is needed by mono2-2.4-ossafe_2.i386 libgthread-2.0.so.0 is needed by mono2-2.4-ossafe_2.i386

[12:02] Will Boudreaux: anyone gotta link handy? or should i just google it?

[12:02] Kevin Echo: http://www.osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1603

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: my only issue with imprudence is i get no audio track with my videos

[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: :/

[12:02] Kevin Echo: Idk whats going on.

[12:02] Michael Skelito: I cant do it

[12:02] Teravus Ousley is just using the standard linden client atm

[12:03] Will Boudreaux: really Neb?

[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: does imprudence viewer conflichts with sl password view.

[12:03] Will Boudreaux: oh yea i read that in the log, where you and Warin both were having that trouble

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: no

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt Richardus

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and ya Will it seems like an OK viewer to me

[12:03] Penny Lane: Will: http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Downloads

[12:03] Zardoz Firanelli: Sorry I was away after I asked a question. Does anyone know if the scale will ever be corrected?

[12:03] Will Boudreaux: ty Penny

[12:03] Will Boudreaux: =)

[12:03] Teravus Ousley: Kevin, hit the fly button, please.. the next time you go away and back rapid fire.

[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i still mostly use Hippo

[12:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: what scale, Zardoz?

[12:04] Teravus Ousley: .. might have something to do with animations fighting against the away animation.

[12:04] Zardoz Firanelli: The size of things. A standard doorway is 2 meters high

[12:04] Zardoz Firanelli: in rl

[12:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: make your avatar smaller ;)

[12:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: or bigger

[12:04] Adelle Fitzgerald: scale here is relative

[12:04] Will Boudreaux: are you using the optimized neb?

[12:05] Zardoz Firanelli: Yes but it is a major stumbling block for industry use

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya 1.20 SSE optimized

[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm back

[12:05] Will Boudreaux: could have something to do with the audio issue perhaps?

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Meerkat and all other viewers play videos ok

[12:05] Adelle Fitzgerald: the problem with scales is that because of the camera, people tend to make things much bigger so they can view around easily

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: just imprudence has no audio on videos

[12:05] Will Boudreaux: hmmm

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: music track plays on the radio station

[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i hear inworld sounds

[12:05] Will Boudreaux: just not with vids

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: must be gstreamer

[12:06] Will Boudreaux: weird

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: im Win7 x64

[12:06] Warin Cascabel: Well, that and 50% on the height slider is like 7 feet tall, Adelle... :)

[12:06] Will Boudreaux: Ahh!

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: but i think warin had same issue on 32 bit windows

[12:06] Warin Cascabel: Yes, I did.

[12:06] Warin Cascabel: No

[12:06] Adelle Fitzgerald: try making a room that is 6x5x2.5m and walk into it ans move about, you struggle to see properly

[12:06] Warin Cascabel: I think it was Linux, I don't recall.

[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: i thought you said windows

[12:07] Warin Cascabel: Let me play a video now, I'll tell you.

[12:07] Adelle Fitzgerald: that scale is not relative to feet or meters, Warin, its simply a scale, iirc

[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: wel as desktop i use win7 x64. and im happy

[12:07] Zardoz Firanelli: brb, let me go check it

[12:07] Kevin Echo: anyone knows how to get Mono on Cent Os 5.3 64bit?

[12:07] height detector v1.1 SPf: Adelle Fitzgerald is 2.219310 m (7 feet 3 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

[12:07] Adelle Fitzgerald: hehe

[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: audio stream works on wright

[12:07] height detector v1.1 SPf: Michael Skelito is 2.302270 m (7 feet 7 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

[12:07] Kevin Echo: http://osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1603&start=0 isnt working for me

[12:07] Michael Skelito: oops

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya try video

[12:07] height detector v1.1 SPf: Darkeyes Marr is 2.243236 m (7 feet 4 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

[12:07] Michael Skelito: sorry

[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: see if the video has sound

[12:08] height detector v1.1 SPf: nazaire finesmith is 2.221423 m (7 feet 3 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

[12:08] Warin Cascabel is Online

[12:08] Will Boudreaux: installing it now, gonna come back with it and try

[12:08] Will Boudreaux: not using the optimized version

[12:08] Richardus Raymaker: warin wich linux ? 32bit ? 64bit is a pain to get video & audio.

[12:08] Warin Cascabel: Crash.

[12:08] Adelle Fitzgerald: my avatar is only very slightly smaller in SL

[12:08] Will Boudreaux: ah did we?

[12:08] Warin Cascabel: Debian unstable 32-bit, Richardus

[12:08] Warin Cascabel: No, Will, I crashed when I clicked the video play button.

[12:09] Penny Lane: 32-bit Linux here. Everything works with Imprudence, audio, video, Voice

[12:09] Warin Cascabel: Let me try that again.

[12:09] UUID Speaker: Phix Phixation: 66a62069-8f46-bac0-eb3f-fa96c3666caa

[12:09] Will Boudreaux: brb

[12:09] Michael Skelito: Neb this overhang outside

[12:09] Valerie Boucher: hb

[12:09] Michael Skelito: lol

[12:09] Michael Skelito: nice

[12:09] Warin Cascabel: No crash yet, but I'm hearing no audio from the video (Windows 32-bit)

[12:10] height detector v1.1 SPf: nazaire finesmith is 2.221423 m (7 feet 3 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

[12:10] Adam Frisby is Offline

[12:10] Teravus Ousley: yeah, I guess the head --> wall raycasting needs a bit more help

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: Teravus when you get a chance

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: try my car

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: sit in it idle for few moments

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: then drive

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: the car sinks into the ground

[12:11] Teravus Ousley: I tried the non-sparking one.

[12:11] Valerie Boucher: wb Will

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: thats what the reset button is for

[12:11] Will Boudreaux: ty

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: sit idle in the car for about 5 mintues

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: then drive

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: you will see what i mean

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: you sink into the ground

[12:11] Teravus Ousley: on prim, or on terrain?

[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: terrain

[12:11] Teravus Ousley: k

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i made the reset button shoot you up

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: then you collide proper again

[12:12] Richardus Raymaker: need to try something. bye for nnow

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: see you Richardus

[12:12] Teravus Ousley: speaking of time.. it's about 12 minutes over.. so I'll see you later.

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok Ter thanks

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: and thanks everyone

[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: feel free to hang out

[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: make sure to grab the Racer if you have not

[12:13] Teravus Ousley: have a great day! :)

[12:13] Teravus Ousley is Offline

[12:13] Penny Lane: I couldn't grab it earlier

[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: grab the box

[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: behind it

[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: its the full kit

[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: has all the textures

[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: texture template

[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: its lacking docs still

[12:13] Penny Lane: Oh, it worked, great. Thanks Neb

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: next week i will have an update

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: with more stuff

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to add to the kit let me know

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: id love donations to it

[12:14] Penny Lane: Sure looks nice

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi whispers: :)

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: or if you want start your own new kits

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: id love to see mods

[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: and new stuff

[12:14] Penny Lane: That's damn good music on the video, lol

[12:15] Warin Cascabel: Sure, Penny, rub it in. :P

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[12:15] Will Boudreaux: yea i got no audio either

[12:15] Penny Lane: Hahaha Warin

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f4qjAjfUZ0

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: :)

[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: this is whats playing

[12:15] Will Boudreaux: hehe

[12:15] Will Boudreaux: ty

[12:15] Penny Lane: Lemme guess ... you've got PulseAudio running? NUKE FROM ORBIT!!! ;-)

[12:15] Will Boudreaux: i like the font style imprudence uses

[12:16] Warin Cascabel: I don't like the fact that the characters are larger in dialog boxes, so button text gets cut off sooner.

[12:16] Will Boudreaux: ah yea...

[12:17] Will Boudreaux: so you guys are actually recommending this viewer now?

[12:17] Penny Lane: I'd like to hear more about the Meerkat-Imprudence thing. No commits in meerkat-commits since November 24th, so it seems that the rumours are correct that Meerkat is, well, on hold at least.

[12:17] Adelle Fitzgerald: does it do prims bigger than 10m?

[12:17] Warin Cascabel: It does, Adelle.

[12:17] Adelle Fitzgerald: cool

[12:17] Darkeyes Marr: 128 adelle is max

[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya warin you were saying some other cool prim features

[12:17] Warin Cascabel: The nicest feature, for me, is the ability to use equations in the edit panel text fields

[12:17] Adelle Fitzgerald: i migth give it a shot

[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: can you explain

[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: that

[12:18] Warin Cascabel: You can also use variables as well - like set the Y field to the X field times 3.5, for example

[12:18] Will Boudreaux: i like the feel of it thus far, it does suck about the audio track of vids now playing

[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya im sure that will get worked out

[12:18] Will Boudreaux: not*

[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: ive been switching back and forth

[12:19] Will Boudreaux: meerkat on the other hand, i had nothing but troubles with it

[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: i used Imprudence to port stuff to Intel grid

[12:19] Warin Cascabel: http://imprudenceviewer.org/wiki/Build_Math_Expressions

[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: that was handy

[12:19] Will Boudreaux: oh nice import/export features

[12:19] Penny Lane: Ask in the Imprudence forum, I'm sure someone knows the solution.

[12:19] Will Boudreaux: yea good idea

[12:19] Warin Cascabel: Oh, I'm sure the video/audio stuff will get worked out eventually.

[12:19] Penny Lane: And they're friendly there.

[12:19] Valerie Boucher: brb coffee

[12:19] Will Boudreaux: yea if the 3 of us are having an issue, you know others are, and will report

[12:20] Will Boudreaux: hb

[12:20] Penny Lane: A/V already works on all 3 platforms, so you just need a pointer for how to get out of your platform difficulty.

[12:20] Will Boudreaux: might stick with it for a few days and get to know it better

[12:20] Penny Lane: I love the double-click TP

[12:20] Will Boudreaux: hehe indeed

[12:20] Lee Oldrich accepted your inventory offer.

[12:20] Will Boudreaux: HAHA!

[12:21] Will Boudreaux: look at her go

[12:21] Will Boudreaux: rofl

[12:21] Warin Cascabel: My main complaint with Imprudence is that you can't select the grid from the command line.

[12:21] Warin Cascabel: But that's mainly because I'm a dinosaur who launches my programs from the command line.

[12:21] Will Boudreaux: only real problem i have with hippo, is that... well it's dead now... so no updates or anything

[12:21] Will Boudreaux: haha Warin

[12:22] Penny Lane: Warin: yes Warin, that's broken, I've mentioned it to them already, will work on that more. I use that a lot

[12:22] Will Boudreaux: 'cause as OS grows, it'll likey outgrow the viewer

[12:22] Penny Lane: It's just a bug though. Jacek and McCabe are very pro-multiple grids

[12:22] Warin Cascabel: Excellent news, Penny.

[12:23] Warin Cascabel: Hm. FWIW, I can't even play the current video on Linux.

[12:23] Penny Lane: Warin: that's *good* news. It means you have the whole world to get answers from to fix the prob.