Chat log from the meeting on 2009-03-03

[11:10] sim core: In a few hours, so I hoped we could lower it's rate, maybe, ( if that's the reason now ) [11:10] Teravus Ousley: I *HIGHLY* doubt your j2kDecode folder is 3GB :) [11:10]  sim core: It only places the cache there,? [11:10]  Mark Spencer: that was fun ... [11:10]  Teravus Ousley: yep! [11:10]  sim core: Not at all in memory? [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: heh browser crashed [11:10]  sim core: Hehe [11:10]  sim core: Because memory also gets swapped to disk [11:10]  Teravus Ousley: It keeps a small amount of those disk cache files in memory.. but look at the size of them ! :) [11:11] sim core: K [11:11]  sim core: If you say so :-) [11:11]  Teravus Ousley: 500 bytes a piece or less :) [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: top says with some regions virt 1.8 GB and mostly then its crashed [11:11] sim core: Just mostly am surprised at all the j2kdecode console messages at times :-) [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: running predecode prior to anyone logging in will make it smoother [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: predecode-j2k [11:11]  sim core: Yes, I get to 1.8g then start crawling [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: 1.8gb what? [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ram? [11:12]  Teravus Ousley: ah, yes. It does have to j2k decode avatar's skins for each avatar. [11:12]  sim core: Cached memory [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: oh you mean in Linux? [11:12]  sim core: Yes, I meant into cache [11:12]  sim core: OsX [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ah [11:12]  Teravus Ousley: You might be more worried about the image cache. [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: thats a system setting [11:12]  sim core: Most people I talked to have the same problem, linux etc [11:12]  Teravus Ousley: as the image cache is a big consumer of memory [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: you can flush that [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: top syas virtual 18GB memory [11:13] sim core: I meant, the error messages [11:13] Teravus Ousley: .. this is different from the j2k decode cache [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: heh i have not seen that myself [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: soorry virtual 1.8GB memory [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: thats odd [11:13] sim core: And a lot of decode console messages :-) [11:13]  Teravus Ousley: ah, the error messages you get are something that's been reported on. [11:13]  sim core: K [11:13]  sim core: Just tought it might also add to the cached virtual swapfile :-) [11:13] Teravus Ousley: so far, we've not found a way to turn it off when you get those error messages that is 'exclusive' [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: 27630 osgrid 20 0 866m 253m 17m S 25 6.5 508:29.02 mono 27786 osgrid 20 0 815m 212m 13m S 19 5.5 487:39.39 mono 27822 osgrid 20 0 878m 338m 16m S 16 8.7 401:51.46 mono 28028 osgrid 20 0 864m 231m 16m S 16 5.9 495:18.68 mono 27576 osgrid 20 0 605m 172m 16m S 14 4.4 260:33.98 mono 27983 osgrid 20 0 512m 98m 14m S 9 2.5 193:34.04 mono 27904 osgrid 20 0 666m 211m 11m S 8 5.4 141:55.77 mono 27948 osgrid 20 0 514m 101m 11m S 6 2.6 208:48.70 mono 4085 osgrid 20 0 553m 288m 21m S 5 7.4 14:36.14 mono 27860 osgrid 20 0 458m 101m 15m S 5 2.6 93:30.82 mono 4023 osgrid 20 0 329m 124m 20m S 3 3.2 4:42.52 mono 10169 osgrid 20 0 451m 162m 20m S 3 4.2 20:00.85 mono [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: thats from my top in console [11:14] sim core: What's that for, richardus? [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: thats what opensim now use on my server [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: linux users understand the table [11:14] sim core: And what does it say :-) [11:14]  sim core: Fast, not fast? [11:14]  Nebadon Izumi: that does seem high [11:15]  Snowdrop Short: I don't, and I'm a linux user :-) [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but likely the high memory use is probably meshing [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: and scripts [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats what i find uses the most [11:15] sim core: They add up afterwards [11:15] sim core: Script take about 256 megs, then after a few hours go to 1.8gigs... [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya, there is leaking for sure [11:15] sim core: ( Not just scripts, but I meant it adds up a lot ) [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: big time leaking [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: especially on mono [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: mono is way worse than .net [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: that will explain 1 region, there running some scripts. have maby 3 with scripts [11:16] Charles Krinke: So, how can we divide and conquer from this point? [11:16] sim core: Hum... maybe is there a way to figure out what information get stored in the cache, mostly? [11:16] sim core: *Gets [11:16] sim core: *Swap-file [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: yea its more a mono issue [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: no opensim [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: mono is just wretched at GC [11:17]  sim core: K [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: it never lets go [11:17]  sim core: We'll see with 2.4 in a week [11:17] Charles Krinke: Do we need to consider the "boehm-gc" patch again? [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt help much [11:17] Teravus Ousley: well, I also think we need to use less memory :D [11:17] Charles Krinke: rats [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and probably wont work with 2.2+ [11:17] sim core: HEhe, indeed, terravus [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: sure we do [11:17]  Nebadon Izumi: but [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: might need to try running a profiler again [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: the same region in Linux uses 1/2 ore more than less than 1/2 in .net on windows [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps there is something lightweight that won't kill mono very quickly [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: so its not necesarrily OpenSim thats the entire problem [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: though i agree we could probably do things better [11:18] sim core nods [11:18] Teravus Ousley: well.. if we reduced the image cache to less.. we'd reduce a lot of memory usage... but.. increase the load on the Grid [11:18] sim core: That sounds a good thing to be able to throttle [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: to be honest, I would tend to think we are leaking somewhere. Mono might be less efficient in release memory than windows (though that's unknown) but it would release it rather than crash, I should think [11:19] Teravus Ousley: Here's another thing Justin. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i think mono just tends to use up all the memory before it can GC proper [11:19] sim core: If there was a way to allow texture cache to be limited, [11:19] Teravus Ousley: .. each user who comes to the simulator.. has up to 5 textures that get put in the asset cache [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: then when it tries to GC its to late [11:19] sim core: Especially for smaller servers [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: there are no resources left [11:20] Teravus Ousley: .. that would explain why .. the more users.. the more memory [11:20] sim core: K, terravus, those are realleased for sure? [11:20] sim core: *Released [11:20] Teravus Ousley: .. that, of course, is not including 'attachments' [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. Hmmmmm [11:20] Teravus Ousley: sim core: after 24 hours. [11:20] sim core: Ah [11:20]  sim core: Oh [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya that makes sense [11:20] sim core: Lol [11:20] sim core: Why not immediatly? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: really though shortening the cache wouldnt put that much more load on the grid would it? [11:21] Charles Krinke: more on memory? Should we go on when everyone ready? [11:21] Teravus Ousley: I dunoo :) the approach is very generic. maybe it needs to be more speciallized? [11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: perhaps you could run show stats the next time you see the memory problem? That would at least tell us whether there is a lot of memory being taken up there [11:21]  sim core: Is the grid caching the textures or the servers? [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: k [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: though normally by the time i know its already sitting at bash [11:21]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: It shoudl be under ASSET STATISTICS. Yeah - it's a case of catching it at the right time :) [11:22] Snowdrop Short: why not a two level cache on the sim, with a memory limit on the cache [11:22] Snowdrop Short: based on mru [11:22] sim core: Or adjusted by opensim.ini? [11:22] Charles Krinke: Maybe do show statistics every hour or every 4 hours and look at the trend and see if anything jumps out? [11:22] Snowdrop Short: maybe even three, with the asset server being the third level [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: does that work good with more opensims on 1 system ? [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: Good ponit. In fact, if the asset cache is increasing too much the evidence is already in the logs [11:23] sim core: I never had asset memory problems [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: since the stuff gets automatically printed out every hour (which I'm sure some people are cusring me for :) [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: isnt the stats module realtime? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/SStats [11:23] sim core: I allways heard about server memory problems mostly :-) [11:24]  Charles Krinke: Justin. Not at all. I think the statistics are good for us. [11:24]  Teravus Ousley: Yes, but I don't think it reports on memory except in the log [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: Those are the real time ones that Teravus did - but I don't think the asset cache numbers come out there (?) [11:24]  Teravus Ousley: no, but it would be a good addition if anyone wants to add it :) [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: oh not sure [11:24] Teravus Ousley: just write another report. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya guess not hehe [11:24] Teravus Ousley: :) [11:24]  sim core: :-J [11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon: okay, so next time it crashes you just need to look through the log at the assert cache numbers [11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus: do you think there's infrastructure that could be more unified between a ll the stats stuff? I haven't done anything with the stuff I did for quite some time now [11:25]  Charles Krinke: Perhaps encourge several folks to mantis the last asset cache numbers after a region crash? [11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: that would be good [11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: if they saw massive memory usage before the crash [11:26]  Teravus Ousley: the reports are not that difficult to write really :D [11:26]  Nebadon Izumi: http://www.pastebin.ca/1352134 [11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: is that right now? [11:27]  Charles Krinke: Looks like everyone is on a roll. Lets just let this be "open to all questions" [11:27] Teravus Ousley: They each have two parts. A data model and a Display model. :D [11:27] Teravus Ousley: the controller is the webstats module. [11:28] Teravus Ousley: .. so.. Model.. View.. Controller.. AKA.. MVC :D [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: yes Justin [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: thats right now [11:28] Charles Krinke: Are we headed for the next tagged release this weekend? Anyone/everyone feeling comfortable about that? [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: to bad opensim cannot run with wine. because .net [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: we don't have installers for the last release yet [11:29] Teravus Ousley: Charles, I'm not sure I would until we can find out what the cause of the avatar error. [11:30] Charles Krinke: k [11:30]  Teravus Ousley: the non-finite one. [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: wich avatar error ? i think there more/ [11:30] Fly Man: Morning everyone [11:30] Fly Man: Neb, you look like you're doing Yoga ... [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: Hello Fly-Man [11:31] Fly Man: Hey Justin :) [11:31]  Richardus Raymaker: hi fly [11:31]  Fly Man: Welcome [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: hey Fly-Man [11:31]  Charles Krinke: morning, Fly-Man [11:31]  Fly Man: Hey all :) [11:31] Fly Man: (else I need to greet everyone in person) :p [11:31] BlueWall Slade: Hello Fly Man [11:31] Charles Krinke: Are we agreed on r8660 for this weeks "recommended" release? Any dissenting opinions? [11:32] Fly Man: Nope [11:32] Fly Man: 8660 runs nicely here [11:32] Fly Man: only the ODE errors ... [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yea i updated actually [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: testing MW's patch [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: well bluewall updated this server [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i did the windows servers [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which patch is that? [11:32] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server  0.6.3.8674  (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False [11:32] Charles Krinke: So, r8660 for "recommended" this week and we see where we are again next Tuesday before the meeting again. [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: 8673/4 [11:32] Fly Man: k [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: user login patch [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: for regions [11:33] Fly Man: Neb, can you change the recommended on the loginscreen as well ? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: yea though its still valid whats there [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: usually i only change it when its a cut off [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: this one is not [11:33] Mark Spencer: is that recommend or required as it always says on the osgrid page? [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: i stay on my revision until isp fixed there created [problems [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea usually i do it for required levels [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: which actually has not changed [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i did post a new release for osgrid [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: for 8660 [11:34] Fly Man: :) [11:34]  Charles Krinke: Looks like 32GByte left on the drive where the assets table is stored this morning on OSGrid. Is Adam progressing with "Voldemort" ? [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i think so [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: he had the conversion sped up nicely [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: but not sure where we stand as of right now [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: other than its going well [11:35]  Charles Krinke: I hope so. I see this cliff out in front of us with a biiiig dropoff [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya [11:35]  sim core: :-J [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: i think we'll be ok [11:35]  Fly Man: Wheeeeeeee [11:35]  Fly Man: *POOF* [11:35]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:35]  Fly Man: That cliff you meant Charles ? [11:35]  Charles Krinke: Yep, thats the one. [11:35]  Fly Man: Hmm, hopefully not [11:36]  Charles Krinke: Would make it *really* really tough to argue interop if we didnt operate at all. [11:37] Charles Krinke: While all the "pontificators" who have no "operating grid" do their naysayer impersonations. [11:37] sim core wonders if there is a way to stop the hypergrid users from constantly displaying ",,,profile not found for user...", as it lops many thousands of times when once would be enough [11:37] Charles Krinke: Perhaps see if there is a Mantis and create one if not, sim? [11:38] Charles Krinke: thanks, Fly-Man. Guess I am only half-dressed as usual. [11:38] Fly Man: Yw :) [11:39]  Fly Man: But I think the stability has been going up the wall [11:39]  Fly Man: these ODE errors are making regions instable ... [11:39]  Charles Krinke: Worrying more about operations then clothing I admit. [11:39]  Charles Krinke: Is the ODE issue related to scripting? If so, how do we seperate? [11:40]  Charles Krinke: Hey, Mw. Hello [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: lol' [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: hehehe [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: block [11:40]  Teravus Ousley: :D [11:40]  Wright Juran-Mk2: hey [11:41]  Charles Krinke: Ok, what are our issues where testers can help the developers with more and better Mantis notes this week? [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: oh hey MW how are ya [11:41]  Fly Man: I was hoping Teravus could tell us more about what's happening (if he has any idea) [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: what ya think of the place ? [11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: Wow, hello MW [11:41]  Teravus Ousley: I have not been following development too closely the last few weeks.. I had an operation that put me out of commision .. and then I had to catch up with work. [11:42] Teravus Ousley: I'm still in the process of 'catching up' [11:42] Charles Krinke: Nebadon. Can you demonstrate the big screens for Mw? I dont know if he has seen them recently or not. [11:42] Wright Juran-Mk2: well my work has been on just refactoring things, done quite a bit of that, but no new features so if everything has gone as planned, the user won't notice anything [11:43] Charles Krinke: We miss you in this meeting, Mw, but we try to muddle through bumbling and stumbling along the way. Especially me. [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:44] Wright Juran-Mk2: yeah I can rarely make this meeting because of the time, its during family time and getting my children to bed/ready for bed [11:45] Charles Krinke: Remember the first "Office Hour", Mw? On the blank Wright Plaza island? No physics or collisions? No scripts? All Ruth? [11:45] Charles Krinke: Sept 2007, I believe it was [11:45] Wright Juran-Mk2: yup but hey we could walk around. and didn't bounce around. So have we really progressed ? ;) [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: we'll have to have a Wright Plaza birthday party in september [11:46]  Fly Man: Ghehe [11:46]  sim core: And like allways, there is the oar property line save that would be nice :-D [11:46]  Fly Man: Now I know where the Plaza got his name ;) [11:46] Teravus Ousley: do we feel sufficiently happy with the results 2 years later? [11:46] Charles Krinke: And then Nebadon built this building and put the first pathway's around it. [11:46] sim core: Other than that, great job all the developers! :-) [11:47] Charles Krinke: Well, its a collaboration. Without folks to use OpenSim, there would be no motivation or point in improving it. [11:47]  Wright Juran-Mk2: I remember some of our early physics tests on here, fire cannon firing hippos etc [11:47]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:47]  BlueWall Slade wonders what 2 more years will bring :) [11:47] sim core: Smell-open-vision., maybe :-J [11:47] Teravus Ousley: well, from this point on.. I think imagination will rule the direction of development [11:47] Charles Krinke: An F-16 flying through a FarGate to drop a bomb containing "reasonable" gas on Fortrerra HQ? [11:48] Mark Spencer: as a noob here with regions for the first time, let me say you guys have done an amazing job [11:48] Teravus Ousley: We've got most of the features.. we set out to implement.. completed in some form or another. [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, what's wrong with Forterra? [11:48] Charles Krinke: Mark. Find the newstand outside and start reading the weekly newspaper [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: we're still missing group support :) - and a few other bits and bobs. [11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: if one wants to produce a Second Life clone ;) [11:49] Teravus Ousley: only because.. it's out of scope.. [11:49] sim core: I think I could manage prim group use, speaking for myself [11:49] Teravus Ousley: just like we're missing currency.. because it's out of scope [11:49] Wright Juran-Mk2: yes we haven't got our SL clone yet ;) [11:49]  sim core: MEaning groups are good, but can be scripted in a way [11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus: Group is out of scope? [11:50]  Teravus Ousley: well, that's the reason why I have not developed it beyond the reference module... because I thought it was out of scope.. not diverse enough. [11:50]  Mark Spencer: Charles, thanks - I read Justin's neat summary blog every week [11:51]  Charles Krinke: oh gosh, Is there any way to encourage group development then? Perhaps through the forge? [11:51]  Mark Spencer: thanks Justin :> [11:51]  Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno - it' doesn't seem to me to be much different in that respect from a lot of hte other stuff that has been done [11:51]  Teravus Ousley: Groups mean many different things in many different virtual worlds. [11:51]  Wright Juran-Mk2: I personally think ideally they wouldn't be in core, but then I feel that way about a lot of things ;), so when we look at other things in core, I guess there is a case for having them there. Money is certainly out of scope [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: Mark: you're welcome [11:51] BlueWall Slade: there are projects on the forge for groups and currency [11:51] sim core: Voice could be next [11:52] Charles Krinke: How can we get some traction and momentum on the forge groups project? [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: we're also still missing the ability to take groups of objects into inventory as non-lniked groups [11:52] BlueWall Slade: DTL is developing it [11:52]  Teravus Ousley: well, find people interested in working on it.. and submit patches :D. Use it on your opensimulator instance. [11:52] BlueWall Slade: avatars link weirdly too [11:52] Teravus Ousley: there's nothing wrong with downloading it and compiling it and putting it in your bin folder :D [11:53] sim core: Wich mosule? [11:53] sim core: *Module [11:53] Teravus Ousley: the SL Style group module [11:53] sim core: K [11:53]  Wright Juran-Mk2: +1 Teravus, lets start using that model for all the other parts as well, and throwing things out of svn and onto forge ;) [11:54]  Teravus Ousley: well, here's the thing [11:55]  Teravus Ousley: the person who takes it out of SVN and into forge becomes the maintainer and it's their job to ensure that it works with OpenSimulator through it's common API changes. [11:55]  Wright Juran-Mk2: I'm only joking, in the long term I want to see a lot of things moved out of core, but short term we aren't ready for that [11:55]  Wright Juran-Mk2: yup we need stable API's first [11:55]  Teravus Ousley: so, if you do that.. it's a big responsibility :D [11:55]  Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server  0.6.3.8674  (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:False [11:56] Snowdrop Short: right .. [11:56]  Snowdrop Short: I'm off to the classes [11:56]  sim core: See-you, snow :-) [11:56] Charles Krinke: thanks for coming, Showdrop [11:56] Teravus Ousley: yep. I'm going to depart in 4 minutes also. have some work to finish before my next meetin' [11:57] Snowdrop Short: is metaversity down? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: checking [11:57] Charles Krinke: To me, any week that "Wright Plaza" survives Office Hour is a good reliability and stability test. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: someone beat me to it [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: its coming up [11:57]  BlueWall Slade: I just stared ti [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:57] Snowdrop Short: great .. thanks [11:57] BlueWall Slade: was it upgrading? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya sorry [11:57] Wright Juran-Mk2: btw does anyone feel like writing some wiki documentation on the new ini folder support? or do we know anyone who does? I suck at writing end user docs [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: meeting disrupted it [11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: i forgot [11:57] Fly Man: Wright, Yes [11:57] BlueWall Slade: we'll finish it after the class [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it was ready though [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: nah its done [11:57] BlueWall Slade: ohh, ok [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: it just needed starting [11:58] BlueWall Slade: thanks [11:58] Fly Man: Wright, ask our new Wiki Hour Person :) [11:58]  BlueWall Slade: I have, yet, to try out the now ini setup [11:58]  Charles Krinke: Mw. We need a few clues. Sometimes a post on the mailing list or an IRC conversation with encouragment and one little example helps get a mini-project off the ground. [11:58]  BlueWall Slade: -new- [11:59]  BlueWall Slade: it sounds simple enough [11:59]  Wright Juran-Mk2: yeah I know, I'm going to post to the mailing list, but I also meant working with me to write the wiki pages [11:59]  BlueWall Slade: I wonder how hard it will be to maintain all the pieces [11:59]  Charles Krinke: BlueWall: Perhaps pick someone from the IRC community and see if you can just mentor them to move forward? Thus amplifying our efforts? [12:00]  BlueWall Slade: ok [12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: did you guys notice the big map [12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: that updates every 3 hours [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i made a seadragon project [12:01] Mark Spencer: where neb? [12:01]  Teravus Ousley: see ya later :D [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.sytes.net/osoperator/seadragon/seadragonajax.html [12:01] Mark Spencer: ta [12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I'm going to go too and wonder what I'm gonig to do about this damn tar filename limitation [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: you can deep zoom on historic snapshots of the grid [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: im going to make more of these [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: differnt setups [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: later justin thanks for coming man [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: :) [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: so good meeting [12:03]  sim core: Yes, thank-you for having me :-) [12:03] Wright Juran-Mk2: see you later Justin [12:03] Fly Man: nebadon: [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya anything anyone else want to talke about? [12:03] sim core: Bye, justin and all :-) [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: whuzup Flyman [12:03]  Fly Man: I'm have a talk with the Mono ppl [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [12:04]  Fly Man: and they don't like the way we compile Mono from scratch ;) [12:04] Fly Man P [12:04]  Charles Krinke: Ok, I need to go also. Good meeting. [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: i builded mono daily on ubuntu vps. [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: bye charles [12:04] BlueWall Slade: what would they have us do? [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ok what do they suggest we do? [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: im willing to try whatever [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried how they suggest in their instructions [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: and its the same [12:05] Fly Man: Nebadon, I'll give them the link to the forum [12:05] Fly Man: and see if they have suggestions [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ok [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i'll try anything at this point [12:05] Wright Juran-Mk2: try windows ? :) [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: well we do most of our plazas are on windows [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: but still [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: Windows is to expensive [12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: we need linux to work good [12:06]  Richardus Raymaker: windows.. (whispers omg> [12:06] Wright Juran-Mk2: yeah [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:06] Richardus Raymaker: if you like stress, use windows. [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: its not realistic to run a linden style grid on windows [12:06] BlueWall Slade: heh, I don't have windows - so I hope we have Linux [12:06] Wright Juran-Mk2: port opensim to c++ [12:07] Fly Man: Good [12:07] Fly Man: they're gonna have a look at the page [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: cool [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya i hope they have some good suggetsions [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: something needs to happen [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:07] Fly Man: Well, they're the experts ;) [12:07]  Fly Man: So let's see what they think of it [12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:08]  Nebadon Izumi: thats great they are even looking [12:08]  Richardus Raymaker: wrigt juran ,, yes :) [12:08] Fly Man: Well, yeah [12:08] Fly Man: some comments they already had: [12:08] Fly Man: why are you building with large-heap [12:08] Fly Man: and why are you forcing the tls to pthread [12:08] Fly Man: and building with monolite is a developer-only feature you should not be using [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: well from my testing it works better [12:09] Fly Man: all 3 of those things are wrong [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: but ive tried with and without [12:09] Wright Juran-Mk2: noooo I was only joking. I guess someone might do that, but I see no need. And opensim wouldn't exist if we had started off in c++ [12:09] Fly Man: are you on a 64-bit kernel? [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: and the results are virtually identicaly [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: statisticly speaking [12:09] Fly Man: how much ram do you have? [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: no [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: 32 bit OS [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: 4gb ram [12:09] Fly Man: Yeah, that's what I said as well ;) [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: GC seems less harsh [12:09]  Fly Man: But they'll have a look at it [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: when you compile that way [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: thats why we do it [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: you can tell them [12:10]  Fly Man: Ahhh [12:10]  Fly Man: I can stand again :p [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:10]  Fly Man: But nebadon, got room for 1 more region on your own server ? [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: why [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: whats up [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: i have a server actually shut off [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: doing nothing [12:11]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:11]  Wright Juran-Mk2: okay I have to go, bye everyone [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: later MW [12:12]  Fly Man: Nite wright [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming [12:12]  Mark Spencer: me2 [12:12]  Nebadon Izumi: ok well thanks for coming everyone [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: good time