Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-28

[11:04] steve Franklin: is anyone going to use voice today? [11:04] Sheera Khan: we never use voice here [11:04] Arielle Popstar: normally not so there is a log [11:04] steve Franklin: ah OK a good idea [11:04] Sheera Khan: it's difficult to provide a log then ... [11:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: the log is the official record [11:04] steve Franklin: we need to get speech to text! lol [11:05] Arielle Popstar: that way in 5 years  i can  check back  on the embarrasing things  i said here [11:05] Sheera Khan: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Office_hours [11:07] Sheera Khan: could someone poke Andrew via IRC please? [11:11] Arielle Popstar: does anyone see my lashes as corrupted? [11:11] Arielle Popstar: missing alpha? [11:12] George Equus: nice lashes Arielle :)) [11:12] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i see them as a bit in front of your face arie [11:12] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Re last week's discussion about IMA support for test management-- IMA is eager to support it [11:12] Sheera Khan: nope, I see them purrfectly Arielle [11:12] steve Franklin: yes we are [11:12] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Steve is here to talk about it [11:13] George Equus: All ear [11:13] Arielle Popstar: kk thx. My partner sees them as bad  with all her viewers after  multiple cache clears  while i see them fine [11:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The devs should not have handle this test work [11:14] Kayaker Magic: IMA means ...? [11:14] Sheera Khan: maybe the LOD setting in preferences - graphics? [11:14] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: infinite metaverse alliance [11:14] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: its in steves tag [11:14] Arielle Popstar: (nod good point Sheera. ty) [11:14] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: google it [11:14] steve Franklin: Infinite metaverse Alliance [11:14] Sheera Khan: you're welcome :-) [11:14] George Equus: http://lists.infinitemetaverse.org/6-ima-update-january-18-2017 [11:15] Arielle Popstar: are the devs willing to consider the IMA  tests? [11:15] Arielle Popstar: has there been anydiscussions with them on it? [11:16] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i believe devs were asking for ppl to test the new permission changes [11:16] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: if i recall correctly [11:16] steve Franklin: With the devs or IMA? [11:16] Arielle Popstar: devs [11:16] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: That was the discussion last week [11:16] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: mmmhmm [11:17] steve Franklin: At IMA we would put together a working group that would do the testing [11:17] steve Franklin: IMA is at infinitemetaverse.com [11:17] Kayaker Magic: .org? [11:18] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: someone mentioned previously, that sl had some standard permission script tests [11:18] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The devs would write code to execute tests [11:18] steve Franklin: IMA is here to support development of virtual technology including open sim [11:18] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i gather, some such tests might require 3 ppl [11:18] Arielle Popstar: here is their G+ group if you use  that https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111689493290887039334 [11:19] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Andrew seemed very interested in the idea. [11:19] steve Franklin: Generally a working group is about 5 people working together [11:19] Arielle Popstar: are the plans to test both within a grid and hypergrid? [11:20] steve Franklin: that link is the IMA g+ group [11:20] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: why not, their all valid test scenarios [11:20] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.1.0 Dev       056ccae: 2017-01-27 21:43:25 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:20] steve Franklin: All those decisions are for the working group to decide. [11:20] Arielle Popstar: HG is where the most problems seem to be in my experience [11:20] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Fo permissions, all reasonable scenaros need testing [11:21] steve Franklin: IMA does not manage WGs we support them in a bunch of ways [11:21] Arielle Popstar: as far as perms are concerned [11:21] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: agreed selby [11:21] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Oh yes, marcus pointed to the SL perm tests. I'll dig it up. [11:21] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: ty james [11:21] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Scripted_Permissions_Test [11:22] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: cheers james [11:22] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The wg would make its own decisions. [11:22] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: so, is permission checks the only blocker to 0.9.1 progress? [11:22] steve Franklin: Yes IMA does not micromanage [11:23] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: IMA has software to support remote collaboration [11:23] steve Franklin: We are there to provide services to help working groups be successful [11:24] steve Franklin: http://infinitemetaverse.com/en/ [11:25] steve Franklin: We will have test grids with OpenSim, Arriba, Whitecore, and Halcyon [11:25] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: so James, not meaning to put you on the spot, but are you here in your official opensim developer capacity? [11:26] steve Franklin: you could use our OS grid to test as that is what it is there for [11:26] steve Franklin: We also have project software to keep track of what you are doing [11:26] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: snik, I'm not really a dev in any sense. I'm primarily just a fan. [11:26] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Will this conversation go into the logs? [11:27] Sheera Khan: sure it will ^^ [11:27] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: ah, ok james, my apologies [11:27] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: yes [11:27] steve Franklin: http://infinitemetaverse.com/en/join-us/benefits [11:27] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: your opensim dev tag confused me :) [11:27] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: good -- so andrew can read [11:27] steve Franklin: that is some of the services IMA provides [11:27] Arielle Popstar: the focus for the perms at this time is Opensim? [11:28] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: sorry, what arielle? [11:28] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Apparantly fixing perms is gate for next release [11:28] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i gather thats a prime focus for opensim development currently [11:28] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: yes [11:29] Arielle Popstar: it was mentioned that the others  would be available for testing: Arriba, Halcyon, Opensim etc [11:29] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: yes, it's a sticking point for version 9 and my understanding is that nobody has time to coordinate it. [11:29] steve Franklin: yes the IMA server is there to test on [11:29] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: OMG runs 0.9.1 currently [11:30] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: All those will be on the same server-- needed for time comparisons [11:30] steve Franklin: we wanted to have a really good server on a backbone connection to not have machine and connection issues [11:30] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: so we're more than willing to assist testing, as far as time allows [11:31] steve Franklin: I should get Snik to setup the opensim server- she is really good at it! [11:31] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Has Freaky commented on perms in arriba? [11:31] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: hey, i might just do that for you steve :) [11:32] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i seem to recall i owe you a favour, steve :) [11:32] Arielle Popstar: i read arriba is  in maintenance  mode [11:32] steve Franklin: What IMA wants to do is advance virtual world tech. We see a lot of need for that to happen [11:32] Arielle Popstar: arriba2 is what he is working on? [11:32] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: lets discuss it later steve :) [11:32] steve Franklin: hmmmm! [11:33] steve Franklin: OK! [11:33] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: deal :) [11:33] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I think he is working an arriba2 [11:33] steve Franklin: It would be good to see you again! [11:33] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: anyone heard from melanie & ubit recently? [11:33] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: no [11:33] steve Franklin: I talk with Freaky pretty regularly, He is definatly working on arriba [11:34] steve Franklin: No one I know has seen Ubit in over 3 months [11:34] Arielle Popstar: Ubit was away for an extended time  last year around this  time [11:34] steve Franklin: I have been wanting to get together with him [11:34] steve Franklin: ah OK [11:34] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: Opensim GIT shortlog has no updates since 02feb - http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=shortlog&p=opensim [11:35] Arielle Popstar: started at the  end of january  until  april sometime [11:35] Arielle Popstar: his last commit was Jan 27  i think\ [11:35] Arielle Popstar: then Mel for a few  more  over the next week [11:35] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: but Dorena's place was running the earlier version of arriba last time I was there [11:36] Arielle Popstar: i was under impression that arriba2 was wip [11:37] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Arielle -- that is my impression also [11:37] James.atLLOUD @hg.osgrid.org: It's difficult for me to follow the OS devs since most coordination is via IRC. I'm just not adept or able to be on all the time. [11:38] Arielle Popstar: wish they would post  logs [11:38] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: tbh james i think the most accurate way is to just download from trunk and use a git tool on the codebase, to see current state of development [11:39] Arielle Popstar: or pull the osgrid release [11:39] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: as i've found irc to be somewhat slow to respond to questions in the past [11:39] Arielle Popstar: understatement [11:39] steve Franklin: is there any difference between them? [11:39] Kayaker Magic: I am not an IRC fan. [11:39] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: trunks possibly more current [11:40] steve Franklin: the osgrid.org and osg releases? [11:40] Kayaker Magic: IRC is like using a CB radio. [11:40] steve Franklin: yes true [11:40] steve Franklin: Breaker- Breaker [11:40] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: lol steve [11:41] steve Franklin: this is why at IMA we use the project software- Everything is organized and easy to find and add to if needed- everyone involved kinws exactly where the project is [11:42] steve Franklin: saves chasing people around! [11:42] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Info: fromopenmetaversefoundation/libopenmetaverse libraries... Melanie Thielker a[[;ped a patvh from CmdrCupCake to libopenmetaverse, however the updated libopenmetaverse have yet to be committed to Opensim master [11:42] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: perhaps andrew forgot to put his clock forward? [11:42] James atLLOUD: Steve, is this a model for other open source projects? [11:42] Kayaker Magic: This sums up how I feel about IRC: https://xkcd.com/1782/ [11:42] Arielle Popstar: he has been  on  this time  for a while now [11:43] steve Franklin: IMA is trying to create a community that is organized and passionate about the work that they do [11:44] steve Franklin: Other open source projects are sometimes kind of disjointed. If you have read the cathredral and the Bazaar we will be somewhere in the middle [11:45] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: The community is passionate, but needs help in getting organized [11:45] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: shame no other opensim devs were able to attend todays meeting [11:45] steve Franklin: We are set up to get funding for people to advance technology. We have grant experts on staff and we have the accounting setup to do grant work [11:45] Arielle Popstar: Justin and Neb leaving  left a big hole in the organizational aspect [11:46] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Creative people don't take to being organized [11:46] steve Franklin: We have quite a few really excellent people on our Advisory Board already. [11:46] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i'm not entirely sure you can generalize about people, creative or otherwise, selby :) [11:47] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: you are right, snik [11:47] James atLLOUD: so true @Arielle re Justin and Neb [11:47] steve Franklin: The key to IMA is we are making ways to get VW development funded and have made it so the Working groups just need to work on what they got the funding for [11:48] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: maybe we should offer new, prospective developers free cookies and coffee?........ [11:48] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: ....or try reaching out to some of the viewer devs too? [11:48] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: as there is a degree of co-dependency therein [11:49] steve Franklin: OpenSim has had problems because the devs were not making money on their work on it. They generally would work when they could but if something came up that was paid they went and did that first [11:49] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Viewer devs -- good idea [11:49] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: ty selby [11:49] James atLLOUD: agree at viewer devs [11:49] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: ty james [11:49] stiofain mactomais: when u mention grant apps is that confined to USA? [11:49] steve Franklin: We will be reaching out to everyone [11:50] steve Franklin: Cinder is already part of IMA as far as I know [11:50] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Anybody know any viewer devs? [11:50] James atLLOUD: question - would a working group need to look at permissions across platforms?  can it focus on just OS for example? [11:50] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i once spoke to sierra gearz [11:50] steve Franklin: No grants can come from anyone anywhere. Right now IMA is very knowlegable on US grants but we are open to anywhere [11:50] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: James -- that is up to the WG [11:51] Arielle Popstar: I agree James [11:51] Arielle Popstar: at this time anyway [11:51] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we certainly don't need to look for permission issues between Halcyon and OS or Whitecore and OS (yet) [11:51] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: If you think they should do something -- Join the WG and push the idea. [11:51] James atLLOUD: across platforms would be ideal, but also more complicated. [11:52] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: they are basically to different and don't support HG [11:52] James atLLOUD: I absolutely plan to join working groups to offer what my limited skills can do. [11:52] steve Franklin: Yes the working group can be as tight a focus as they want to be. WGs are also not forever. They come into existance to do a particular project. When that project is finished they. disband and move on to something else thay want to do [11:52] Arielle Popstar: to include all would just be a comparison test [11:53] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I thouight you would, james [11:53] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: well, as this is an opensim dev meeting, i suggest we focus on opensim, for purposes of this discussion :) [11:53] Arielle Popstar: the WG's are a volunteer  thing? [11:53] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: as everything else is just a distraction :) [11:53] steve Franklin: Yes they are but if they want to work toward funding IMA can help them with that. [11:54] steve Franklin: Then people in the WG can get paid to code! [11:54] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: but certainly, currently opensim needs all the support, testing, devs & community involment it can [11:54] Arielle Popstar: ok  so back to an initial question:  has  the IMA been  presented to the top 3 core devs [11:54] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: (in my opinion) [11:55] Arielle Popstar: meaning  Ubit, Mel and Diva [11:55] James atLLOUD: there are 3 top devs? [11:55] steve Franklin: We are really into people getting paid to advance the tech. Not everything will be a paid effort but we will work on getting funding to get as much paid as possible [11:55] James atLLOUD: :) [11:55] Arielle Popstar: well imo  James, yes [11:56] steve Franklin: The other thing is that IMA will hire for other projects from our community first so you could be working on something in one WG and also be a paid coder or builder or whatever for another project [11:56] Arielle Popstar: thats  not meaning the others   are  any lesser  but that those 3 are currently the ones most in charge  of what is included in trunk [11:57] steve Franklin: We have not talked to Ubit, Melanie, or diva yet [11:57] steve Franklin: We want to ASAP but we have been really busy getting it all going and getting all the credentials to be able to do grants etc [11:58] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: IMA is responding to query from Andrew at last meeting.  The query was in the log.  So any devs that read the log know about it. [11:58] steve Franklin: yes and we are easy to find! [11:58] Arielle Popstar: bites tongue [11:58] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Andrew may have more info on this [11:59] steve Franklin: If you want to contact me I am on Skype as ste-be and my email is steve@infinitemetaverse.com [11:59] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: near closing time. [11:59] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: i'll give you call on skype a bit later steve :) [11:59] steve Franklin: OK cool! [11:59] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: :) [11:59] steve Franklin: I look forward to catching up! [12:00] snik.snoodle @onemoregrid.com:8002: as do I :) [12:00] Arielle Popstar: I believe that the IMA  can be of  great benefit to Opensim if the help is accepted  by Core [12:00] steve Franklin: If any of you has any questions about IMA please don't hesitate to contact me [12:01] steve Franklin: Well we can present our work and results to core. If they want what we did they are welcome to it [12:01] James atLLOUD: sounds awesome Steve. [12:02] steve Franklin: We are really trying to get a really good passionate community together for this [12:02] steve Franklin: IMA is bottom up so the community and what they want rules [12:03] steve Franklin: Basically IMA is just an enabler. We saw that VW dev was kinda stuck and that there was a real need to advance it as the time to do that is now [12:03] Arielle Popstar: it's a great idea [12:03] James atLLOUD: yes, it is very hopeful to me :) [12:04] Arielle Popstar: the question is why are they stuck [12:04] steve Franklin: that is it! [12:05] steve Franklin: I just think interest has waned for some and they went on to other things [12:05] steve Franklin: Open Source tends to be that without a roadmap and funding [12:05] James atLLOUD: Arielle - I think it's a matter of time and resources for each individual. [12:05] steve Franklin: Opensim still does not have a roadmap [12:05] James atLLOUD: I know my workplace is just nuts right now. [12:05] Arielle Popstar: if you read  what Ramesh Ramloll wrote  on Ops Virtual  it seems to  be by choice  rather than a lack of resources [12:05] steve Franklin: Mine is too! [12:06] James atLLOUD: Well, that is a possibility too.  I prefer to keep as positive an outlook as i can. [12:07] Arielle Popstar: granted  while at the same  looking at where the best place to direct resources  is