Chat log from the meeting on 2011-05-31

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: welcome back Warin [11:03] Warin Cascabel: Thanks. [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya Kirstens is always slow for me too [11:04] Warin Cascabel: It's fine when I'm not in Wright... :) [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: if i need to choice between older viewer. and operating system that dont frustrate me. then the choice is easy. there the last time enopugh frustrations :O [11:04]  Warin Cascabel: Of course, I've got all the shadows and ambient occlusion and such turned on in Kirstens. [11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello richardus, folks [11:04]  Warin Cascabel: Hello, Justin [11:04]  BlueWall Slade: Hello [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant even turn shadows on anywhere [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: i get like 4-5fps [11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: kirsten. the interface is still frustrating ?:) [11:04] Warin Cascabel: heh [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: kirtsen have the best graphics qality here. hi framarate and i can have shadows [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: i mean the shadowns in the water, sorry [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess i need a better video card or something [11:05] Warin Cascabel: The Kirstens interface is somewhat less frustrating than the stock Viewer 2 UI. But that's not saying much. [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Kirstens runs like crap for me [11:05]  Warin Cascabel: Weird, I thought we had the same video card. [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: you mean the other shadowns nebadon [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: warin, wich kirsten version ? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya i have a Nvidia 250GTS [11:06] Warin Cascabel: Yes, that's what I have. Richardus, I'm running S21. [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: GTX275 [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: but never go above high to kepe framerate good [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya i really think to take full advantage of Kirstens you need something better than a 2XX series [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: 400 series would be ideal for that viewer [11:07] Warin Cascabel: Works nicely on my 250 GTS, except in Wright. [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: looks like i have still S20 on hdd [11:07] Dutchy Daredevil: Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: Kirstens S20 2.4.0 (41) Nov 2 2010 16:15:44 (Kirstens S20) [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats a bit older version for sure [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: and kirsten is the best viewer with graphics for me. shame with gui... [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: need to try newer one... :) [11:09] BlueWall Slade: ERROR: NPAPI ERROR: No GTK2 support in this browser! Have version 0 [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: heh wierd error [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: quiet day today [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: suprised more people havent shown up [11:12]  Warin Cascabel: Oh, that reminds me, Purge Appearance seems to be broken. [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: guess maybe people playing catch up from the holiday weekend [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: how so Warin? [11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's half term in the uk [11:13]  Warin Cascabel: I tried using the button a few times today, but I was never ruthed - my appearance was exactly the same after a relog. [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: thats odd [11:13]  Warin Cascabel: yeah [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i have not heard anyone else complain about that [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: let me test [11:14]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, that explains maby why the person neve rgot out of the clud [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, that because your not think about that [11:14] Warin Cascabel: I couldn't log directly into Sandbox Plaza, the viewer kept going into an endless loop complaining about something being its own parent. And I couldn't teleport into it, I got error messages about inconsistent attachments. So I tried the purge appearance button, and nothing appeared to happen. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: nothings changed on website or databases [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so i cant possibly imagine how that could have broken [11:14] Warin Cascabel: I dunno. But it definitely didn't ruth me, and I tried it three times. [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, new kirsten viewer refuse to start. why do the not have a 64bit version ? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: did you clear your current outfit folder? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: were you using V2 viewer? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: purge appearance does not clear current outfit folder out [11:15] Warin Cascabel: Ah, that must have been why, then. [11:15] Warin Cascabel: Maybe it should. [11:16] Nebadon Tester: it worked for me [11:16]  Nebadon Tester: i be ruth [11:16] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, I was using various V2 viewers. [11:16] Nebadon Tester: your current outfit folder probably needs clearing then [11:16] Nebadon Tester: it should never happen again once you clear it one last time now [11:17] Nebadon Tester: that bug has been fixed [11:17] Nebadon Tester: unfortunatly it requires a manual purge atleast once for anyone who was broken before the fix [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ok back here [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:17] Warin Cascabel: I thought I had purged it after the grid servers were updated, but maybe I didn't. [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: honestly its the only way what your describing could have occured [11:18] Warin Cascabel: OK [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: so how was your trip Warin, you back home now? [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: ok, cant run S21 [11:18] Warin Cascabel: Oh, it was a truly awesome trip. There wasn't a single thing that I did which could not have been done remotely. Spectacular use of $1200. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: dont forget to fax in your TPS reports [11:19] Warin Cascabel: yeah, in triplicate. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: so, I see you did some work on the region ready stuff, Bluewall? [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh I started redoing the monopoly board using SL and OSGrid stuff [11:20] Warin Cascabel: I hope LL gets off its butt and finalizes the changes to mesh soon. Making cool meshes, but don't want to distribute them if they're going to break soon. [11:20] BlueWall Slade: ues [11:20] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, the new relase you want to make. does the one have already justings iar fix ? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what IAR fix you mean [11:21] BlueWall Slade: I need to dig into the login to make it re-route agents to a fallback region [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_002.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_002.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: doh [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_003.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_004.png [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: the flexiprim comma vs dot bug. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_005.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_006.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_007.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_008.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_009.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure Richardus, i was not aware of this bug/fix [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: the jail can be used for more things [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I thought region ready itself was unreliable though (only firing half of the time?). Or has that changed? [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: when i do next release it will be based on master git at the time i am doing it [11:22]  Warin Cascabel: Heh, lagxury tax [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: mantis 5475 [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: oh right, that fix [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: as nebadon says, it will be present in his next distro [11:23] BlueWall Slade: I think the script was reliable [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: also, it did make it into 0.7.1.1 [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: ok. just checking. [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought Nebadon said the signal was not reliable [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: you expect lots of jail visitors nebadon :) [11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: that looks cool monopoly [11:23]  BlueWall Slade: so-far it works here [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: which Signal Justin ? [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: the one from RegionReady [11:24]  BlueWall Slade: but, I'm not using a script for reporting [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: oh Bluewall made some changes [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: no longer relies on LSL [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, so that fixed it - it was a script engine issue? [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: ya timing issue i guess [11:25]  BlueWall Slade: I think that maybe it was trying to get the script to send the signal before the script was ready [11:25]  BlueWall Slade: this just locks out logins and can send an alert to an external service as json [11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: about json. does that work correct ? in the past it where broken i heared [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nice. Is there any way of telling via polling whether a region is ready? [11:27] BlueWall Slade: hmmm [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: probably not [11:27] BlueWall Slade: that might be a nice thing [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: you mean externally Justin? [11:27] BlueWall Slade: could pol lthe external service [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: that would be cool [11:27] BlueWall Slade: it should be pretty easy to add it though [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: you could put the login status on website profile or something [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: like Region up Logins Disabled [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, though there's no good place yet [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: there is a sim status url but that just returns OK (or not) [11:28] BlueWall Slade: can probable set that [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, it was just an idle thought - I don't have an immediate use case [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya good idea for sure [11:28] BlueWall Slade: it is a good idea [11:29] BlueWall Slade: I may need to add a region flag as NoLogin or something [11:29] BlueWall Slade: it seems that the only time I can get routed to a fallback region is when the region is 100% down [11:30] BlueWall Slade: if the region is up - it sends a response back to the agent service [11:30] BlueWall Slade: any, I need to dig around in there a bit. [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya, that sorta makes sense [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: need a spade bluewall ? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: might want to check with viewer devs there might be some signal the viewer can get to alert it to try a nearby sim [11:31] BlueWall Slade: I found out that restarting regions reset the flags [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: that would be a nice idea nebadon. if region fails try neighborn [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: cause I imagine in SL [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: when a sim is full [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: they divert you [11:32] BlueWall Slade: so, things like DefaultRegion, FallbackRegion are reset [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: so there must be some kind of signal that can be sent [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: sim full, grin.. [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah [11:33] BlueWall Slade: well, in our login service, it is getting a resonse back - we send the region that it is to login to... [11:33] Sarah Kline: hi [11:33]  BlueWall Slade: but, if the sim is running, we just kick them [11:33] BlueWall Slade: Hello [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya, but in SL i cant imagine the back end does the redirect [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the simulator must send the viewer some kind of signal saying, Sim is Full [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try another region [11:34] BlueWall Slade: ya, we do too - if the sim is down [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: descripe down ? there many states of down. [11:34] BlueWall Slade: just need to get the right response to our login service to do it if they are disabled [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: heh well thats one of the problems I think Richardus [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I think he means down in the sense that the regions doesnt respond at all [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no response [11:35] BlueWall Slade: yeah [11:35] BlueWall Slade: no region there == redirection [11:35] BlueWall Slade: region there, but login disable == viewer gets kicked [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen many times the region still runs but is not working 100% so i guess 80% of the time the region syill says "Hi im here" [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: this is one of those occasions where digging into the viewer might be very helpful [11:36] BlueWall Slade: we want the region to send a respons that make the login service pick a new region from the fallback, or default regions [11:36] BlueWall Slade: nahhh [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: fallback you have set at region level. or gridbased ? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi whispers: ya but in SL dont they do [11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: Nearby Region? [11:36] BlueWall Slade: Telehubs will be a case where digging into the viewer source is helpful. [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: would be nice if you can set your own fallbakc location [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: they dont send everyone to the same regions [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: they send you to something thats nearby right? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it would be a complete disaster to send everyone to just 1 region [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: dont know nebadon. i dont get much a redirect in sl [11:37] Sarah Kline: i have been sent some weird places [11:37] BlueWall Slade: you can define several [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya its pretty rare in SL but it does happen [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya but how does it choose? [11:37] Sarah Kline: they have to take account of numbers already there? [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, sometimes. ended a few times in korea [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it only choses the 2nd one if the 1st one is down right? [11:38] Sarah Kline: if its full somwhere else [11:38] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its not some formula to check which is closest [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya so technically its really only 1 sim [11:38] BlueWall Slade: right [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its not spreading the load [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: thats bad , [11:38] BlueWall Slade: well, if we get past the kicking part, then we can refine it a litte [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats one of the reasons Lbsa is always so full [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:38] BlueWall Slade: heh, we can send them to the highest bidder [11:38] BlueWall Slade: :) [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ya in a grid like OSgrid just randomly choosing a nearby sim would not be good [11:39]  Warin Cascabel: Heh [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: but maybe if it could calculate which is the closest backup [11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe, dump 10 avtars on adsl conenction .. UOCH [11:39]  BlueWall Slade: we could refine it a little to select from the default/fallbacks, then monitor the number of avatars on them [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: problem is in OSgrid if its just randomly picking a nearby sim, its likely you could get several dead sims selected in a row [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: then end up having your login just timeout anyway [11:40]  BlueWall Slade: the grid admins should be the only ones that can set the region flags for defaults and fallbacks [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: we need some kind of zoning system [11:40]  Adelle Fitzgerald is Online [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: its not posisble to make a fallback option so people get redirected to a region from the same owner ? [11:41] BlueWall Slade: data center hosted -vs- home [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, also problematic [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: sort of like a city would break up zones for police, fire, emergency services [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, you want a system the region tells the grid the QoS the region have ? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: if your in this zone you go to this place [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: etc.. etc.. [11:42] Warin Cascabel: I dunno. What about data centers that throttle bandwidth so it's actually lower than a good home connection? [11:42] BlueWall Slade: ok [11:42]  Warin Cascabel: Maybe zoning by bandwidth would make more sense. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: right alot of data centers only get 10mbs upstream [11:42] BlueWall Slade: data cneter -vs - my home [11:42] BlueWall Slade: :p [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i get 12mbps upstream from my house [11:42] Warin Cascabel: heh [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya but how do you benchmark bandwidth [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: that would be daunting, and potentially resource hungry to resolve that in any kind of fair way [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: maby monitor ping time ? [11:43] Warin Cascabel: How do you determine whether a server's in a data center or not? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats true, thats not really what i meant though [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i guess i missed something someone else said [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: packetloss nebadon ? :) [11:44] Warin Cascabel: hmmm... [11:44]  BlueWall Slade: ohh, you're talking about logins, and sending them to a particular place depending on their zone? [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: well to capture and analyze that would require a good amount of resources [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: that did nothing but analyze traffic [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: would be very expensive [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: I would just go down the list of defaults and fallbacks, counting avatars [11:45]  Warin Cascabel: Are defaults and fallbacks set at the grid level, or at the region level? [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: grid level [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: well, you can set them at either place atm [11:45]  Warin Cascabel: Oh, can you? [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: yes [11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: ohh ?? [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: if your in grid mode though you cant set a default / fallback can you? [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: on the simulator [11:46] BlueWall Slade: 1 sec [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think you can [11:47] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: sounds logic in grid mode you cant [11:47] Warin Cascabel: Well, then have the default .ini files that come with the OSgrid releases not override the grid settings (which limit the fallbacks to official plazas), and if someone wants to override that to bump someone to one of their other regions, that's their business. [11:47] Sarah Kline: often the client is kicked and you end up back on the login screen...so then they can try another region [11:47] Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: but what if the sim isnt responding [11:47] BlueWall Slade: Sarah, we will re-route them [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: how the hell could it possibly send the divert signal [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: we do not store that grid side [11:47] Sarah Kline: k ) [11:48]  BlueWall Slade: if they are down, the login service gets a list of regions [11:48]  Warin Cascabel: Yeah, doesn't make sense that it can be overridden by the region. [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: i honestly do not see how a simulator could possibly do that [11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, sarah just got visible afteri did a cam out and in.. [11:48]  Warin Cascabel: I suppose that would be handy if the region were full, but I can't see how it could work when the region was down. [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:48]  Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: and right now i dont think we honor the user limit [11:48]  BlueWall Slade: what we want is just the region to send the login service something that says, "I have logins disabled" [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [11:48]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia [11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess it needs to not respond to Robust [11:49] Sarah Kline: hi Dahlia [11:49] BlueWall Slade: then, it' sup to the grid to come up with an alternate place [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: so robust gets no signal back [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: that seems to be the fail point [11:49] BlueWall Slade: we can send it back a certain response [11:49] Warin Cascabel: hm. [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we are not cutting off the signal enough [11:50] Warin Cascabel: And I suppose the region can't delay registering with the grid until after logins are enabled, because it needs to be registered with the grid in order to get assets, etc.? [11:50] BlueWall Slade: hee, we stop logins, but the response we are sending back is that the reason="LoginsDisabled" [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so i guess then maybe Robust needs to be modified? [11:50] BlueWall Slade: we just need to take that and have the login service query the backend for a list of possible alternates [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: to handle that response better? [11:50] BlueWall Slade: yep [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ok that makes sense [11:51] BlueWall Slade: the problem is in Robust atm [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: that query can not have a big impact ? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: it would be good if the way it did that query [11:51] BlueWall Slade: we already do it [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: was check the originating regions coordinates [11:51] BlueWall Slade: but just if the region isn't there [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: then look on the list of default backups [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and compare coordinates and pick the closest alt [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: then we could zone things out better [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: you land at the closest plaza [11:52] BlueWall Slade: or just hop down the list and check the numbers and send them to the first one that isn't loaded [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats how SL works i think [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: problem is [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: you could get 1000 people hitting 1 sim [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: of course OSgrid isnt that big [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but we need to think years down the road [11:52] Sarah Kline: ) [11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: you say you need a load balancer also [11:52]  BlueWall Slade: months - months [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:52]  BlueWall Slade: hehe [11:52]  Sarah Kline: lol [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: honestly even 50 people hitting the sim right now [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: would spell death for that backup [11:53]  BlueWall Slade: but [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: what would happen would be a chaiin reaction [11:53]  BlueWall Slade: if we can set a limit on it [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: of all the backup regions going down [11:53]  BlueWall Slade: and ahve the login service check the number there [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: 50 people hit 1st one [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: it crashes [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: they all relog hit the 2nd one [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: all relog hit the 3rd one [11:54]  BlueWall Slade: ok, maybe a random number generator [11:54]  BlueWall Slade: ? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: or check coordinates [11:54] BlueWall Slade: tha t a limit [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: if your logging into 10000,8000 [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: it sends you to the simulator thats closest to those coordinates [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so the entire grid isnt just hitting 1 spot [11:55] Warin Cascabel: That would ensure the chain failure scenario, though - if they're all trying to log into Lbsa, then it'll shuffle them all to the same nearest region. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: then you could zone out plazas/backups [11:55] BlueWall Slade: ok, makes sens [11:55] BlueWall Slade: e [11:55]  Warin Cascabel: Maybe a counter which rotates amongst the backups - first person gets sent to backup #1, second person gets sent to backup #2, etc. [11:55]  Warin Cascabel: that way it distributes them fairly evenly [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i suppose that could work [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: then when the sim restarts it resets the counter [11:56] Warin Cascabel: right [11:56] Sarah Kline: nice [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: one potential issue i could see with that [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: you would need to make sure everything falls inside teh 4096 region bubble [11:56] Warin Cascabel: True. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: cause if you get diverted to something otuside that bubble now you have to relog [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: offtopic: i see that active scipts and objects get negative on sims. after restart the seems to be normal. any reason for that ? [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: do the grid services know how many people are in a region? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:57] Warin Cascabel: I can't believe that 4096-region limit is still around after all this time. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Presence Table [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: can calculate how many people are in a region [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: warin, the viewer have still the bug [11:57] Warin Cascabel: I know, Richardus. It's been known for years, so I'm surprised it's still around. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a viewer issue [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: that no one seems to be able to get around [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think basically to fix it truly it requires a data type conversion or something [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that might break compatability, i dunno [11:58] BlueWall Slade: viewer2 would have been a good place to do that [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: meaning SL would have to fix it also [11:58] Warin Cascabel: I can understand why LL wouldn't be keen on fixing it. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya LL has no need to really [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: LL is what 35000 sims [11:59] BlueWall Slade: but, they (LL) will never get large enough to user it [11:59]  Warin Cascabel: But the TPVs have fixed other bugs before, so I'm surprised they didn't attack this one. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: 4096x4096 = 16777216 regions [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: wwhat are the doing with the otehr 6bits ? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya i wont even try to attempt to explain it [12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm 8 bits, oops [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: it has something to do with how the coordinates are transmitted [12:00] Warin Cascabel: 4096 regions is 1024*1024 meters. Certainly should be able to fit more into a 32-bit integer. [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i guess when you combine all the details together anything over 4096 exceeds the field [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: its more than coordinates or something [12:00] BlueWall Slade: maybe it is in the encoding they do [12:00]  BlueWall Slade: in the LLSD [12:00] Warin Cascabel: could be [12:01]  Warin Cascabel: strip off the high byte for fraction of a meter, or something [12:01] Warin Cascabel: (or low byte) [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya Teravus did a fairly good job of explaining it [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: but i dont remember exactly what he said now [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: basically we are overflowing the value [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: beyond 4096 [12:02] BlueWall Slade: the thing is, it will move you there [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: its not possible to give a warning in the viewer someway that you cross the 4096 limit ? [12:02] Warin Cascabel: Hmph. [12:02] BlueWall Slade: you just dont' see prims [12:02] BlueWall Slade: but [12:02] BlueWall Slade: you can see prims next-door [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: and no land bluewall [12:03] BlueWall Slade: right [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go. See you around, folks [12:03] BlueWall Slade: nothing is rendered in that one [12:03] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: kk later Justin, thanks for coming [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: it would be nice that people know when the step over the edge [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:03] Sarah Kline: bye justin [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey waves[11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: welcome back Warin [11:03] Warin Cascabel: Thanks. [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya Kirstens is always slow for me too [11:04] Warin Cascabel: It's fine when I'm not in Wright... :) [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: if i need to choice between older viewer. and operating system that dont frustrate me. then the choice is easy. there the last time enopugh frustrations :O [11:04]  Warin Cascabel: Of course, I've got all the shadows and ambient occlusion and such turned on in Kirstens. [11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello richardus, folks [11:04]  Warin Cascabel: Hello, Justin [11:04]  BlueWall Slade: Hello [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: i cant even turn shadows on anywhere [11:04]  Nebadon Izumi: i get like 4-5fps [11:04]  Richardus Raymaker: kirsten. the interface is still frustrating ?:) [11:04] Warin Cascabel: heh [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: kirtsen have the best graphics qality here. hi framarate and i can have shadows [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: i mean the shadowns in the water, sorry [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess i need a better video card or something [11:05] Warin Cascabel: The Kirstens interface is somewhat less frustrating than the stock Viewer 2 UI. But that's not saying much. [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: Kirstens runs like crap for me [11:05]  Warin Cascabel: Weird, I thought we had the same video card. [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: you mean the other shadowns nebadon [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: warin, wich kirsten version ? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya i have a Nvidia 250GTS [11:06] Warin Cascabel: Yes, that's what I have. Richardus, I'm running S21. [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: GTX275 [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: but never go above high to kepe framerate good [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya i really think to take full advantage of Kirstens you need something better than a 2XX series [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: 400 series would be ideal for that viewer [11:07] Warin Cascabel: Works nicely on my 250 GTS, except in Wright. [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: looks like i have still S20 on hdd [11:07] Dutchy Daredevil: Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: Kirstens S20 2.4.0 (41) Nov 2 2010 16:15:44 (Kirstens S20) [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats a bit older version for sure [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: and kirsten is the best viewer with graphics for me. shame with gui... [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: need to try newer one... :) [11:09] BlueWall Slade: ERROR: NPAPI ERROR: No GTK2 support in this browser! Have version 0 [11:10]  Nebadon Izumi: heh wierd error [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: quiet day today [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: suprised more people havent shown up [11:12]  Warin Cascabel: Oh, that reminds me, Purge Appearance seems to be broken. [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: guess maybe people playing catch up from the holiday weekend [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: how so Warin? [11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's half term in the uk [11:13]  Warin Cascabel: I tried using the button a few times today, but I was never ruthed - my appearance was exactly the same after a relog. [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: thats odd [11:13]  Warin Cascabel: yeah [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: i have not heard anyone else complain about that [11:13]  Nebadon Izumi: let me test [11:14]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, that explains maby why the person neve rgot out of the clud [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, that because your not think about that [11:14] Warin Cascabel: I couldn't log directly into Sandbox Plaza, the viewer kept going into an endless loop complaining about something being its own parent. And I couldn't teleport into it, I got error messages about inconsistent attachments. So I tried the purge appearance button, and nothing appeared to happen. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: nothings changed on website or databases [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so i cant possibly imagine how that could have broken [11:14] Warin Cascabel: I dunno. But it definitely didn't ruth me, and I tried it three times. [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, new kirsten viewer refuse to start. why do the not have a 64bit version ? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: did you clear your current outfit folder? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: were you using V2 viewer? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: purge appearance does not clear current outfit folder out [11:15] Warin Cascabel: Ah, that must have been why, then. [11:15] Warin Cascabel: Maybe it should. [11:16] Nebadon Tester: it worked for me [11:16]  Nebadon Tester: i be ruth [11:16] Warin Cascabel: Yeah, I was using various V2 viewers. [11:16] Nebadon Tester: your current outfit folder probably needs clearing then [11:16] Nebadon Tester: it should never happen again once you clear it one last time now [11:17] Nebadon Tester: that bug has been fixed [11:17] Nebadon Tester: unfortunatly it requires a manual purge atleast once for anyone who was broken before the fix [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ok back here [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:17] Warin Cascabel: I thought I had purged it after the grid servers were updated, but maybe I didn't. [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: honestly its the only way what your describing could have occured [11:18] Warin Cascabel: OK [11:18]  Nebadon Izumi: so how was your trip Warin, you back home now? [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: ok, cant run S21 [11:18] Warin Cascabel: Oh, it was a truly awesome trip. There wasn't a single thing that I did which could not have been done remotely. Spectacular use of $1200. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: dont forget to fax in your TPS reports [11:19] Warin Cascabel: yeah, in triplicate. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: so, I see you did some work on the region ready stuff, Bluewall? [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: heh I started redoing the monopoly board using SL and OSGrid stuff [11:20] Warin Cascabel: I hope LL gets off its butt and finalizes the changes to mesh soon. Making cool meshes, but don't want to distribute them if they're going to break soon. [11:20] BlueWall Slade: ues [11:20] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, the new relase you want to make. does the one have already justings iar fix ? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what IAR fix you mean [11:21] BlueWall Slade: I need to dig into the login to make it re-route agents to a fallback region [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_002.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_002.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: doh [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_003.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_004.png [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: the flexiprim comma vs dot bug. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_005.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_006.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_007.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_008.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://onikenkon.com/screenshots/okc_monopoly_009.png [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure Richardus, i was not aware of this bug/fix [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: the jail can be used for more things [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I thought region ready itself was unreliable though (only firing half of the time?). Or has that changed? [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: when i do next release it will be based on master git at the time i am doing it [11:22]  Warin Cascabel: Heh, lagxury tax [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: mantis 5475 [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: oh right, that fix [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: as nebadon says, it will be present in his next distro [11:23] BlueWall Slade: I think the script was reliable [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: also, it did make it into 0.7.1.1 [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: ok. just checking. [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought Nebadon said the signal was not reliable [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: you expect lots of jail visitors nebadon :) [11:23]  Richardus Raymaker: that looks cool monopoly [11:23]  BlueWall Slade: so-far it works here [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: which Signal Justin ? [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: the one from RegionReady [11:24]  BlueWall Slade: but, I'm not using a script for reporting [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: oh Bluewall made some changes [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: no longer relies on LSL [11:24]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, so that fixed it - it was a script engine issue? [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: ya timing issue i guess [11:25]  BlueWall Slade: I think that maybe it was trying to get the script to send the signal before the script was ready [11:25]  BlueWall Slade: this just locks out logins and can send an alert to an external service as json [11:26]  Richardus Raymaker: about json. does that work correct ? in the past it where broken i heared [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: nice. Is there any way of telling via polling whether a region is ready? [11:27] BlueWall Slade: hmmm [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: probably not [11:27] BlueWall Slade: that might be a nice thing [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: you mean externally Justin? [11:27] BlueWall Slade: could pol lthe external service [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: that would be cool [11:27] BlueWall Slade: it should be pretty easy to add it though [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: you could put the login status on website profile or something [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: like Region up Logins Disabled [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, though there's no good place yet [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: there is a sim status url but that just returns OK (or not) [11:28] BlueWall Slade: can probable set that [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, it was just an idle thought - I don't have an immediate use case [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya good idea for sure [11:28] BlueWall Slade: it is a good idea [11:29] BlueWall Slade: I may need to add a region flag as NoLogin or something [11:29] BlueWall Slade: it seems that the only time I can get routed to a fallback region is when the region is 100% down [11:30] BlueWall Slade: if the region is up - it sends a response back to the agent service [11:30] BlueWall Slade: any, I need to dig around in there a bit. [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ya, that sorta makes sense [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: need a spade bluewall ? [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: might want to check with viewer devs there might be some signal the viewer can get to alert it to try a nearby sim [11:31] BlueWall Slade: I found out that restarting regions reset the flags [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: that would be a nice idea nebadon. if region fails try neighborn [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: cause I imagine in SL [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: when a sim is full [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: they divert you [11:32] BlueWall Slade: so, things like DefaultRegion, FallbackRegion are reset [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: so there must be some kind of signal that can be sent [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: sim full, grin.. [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah [11:33] BlueWall Slade: well, in our login service, it is getting a resonse back - we send the region that it is to login to... [11:33] Sarah Kline: hi [11:33]  BlueWall Slade: but, if the sim is running, we just kick them [11:33] BlueWall Slade: Hello [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya, but in SL i cant imagine the back end does the redirect [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the simulator must send the viewer some kind of signal saying, Sim is Full [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try another region [11:34] BlueWall Slade: ya, we do too - if the sim is down [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: descripe down ? there many states of down. [11:34] BlueWall Slade: just need to get the right response to our login service to do it if they are disabled [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: heh well thats one of the problems I think Richardus [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I think he means down in the sense that the regions doesnt respond at all [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no response [11:35] BlueWall Slade: yeah [11:35] BlueWall Slade: no region there == redirection [11:35] BlueWall Slade: region there, but login disable == viewer gets kicked [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen many times the region still runs but is not working 100% so i guess 80% of the time the region syill says "Hi im here" [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: this is one of those occasions where digging into the viewer might be very helpful [11:36] BlueWall Slade: we want the region to send a respons that make the login service pick a new region from the fallback, or default regions [11:36] BlueWall Slade: nahhh [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: fallback you have set at region level. or gridbased ? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi whispers: ya but in SL dont they do [11:36]  Nebadon Izumi: Nearby Region? [11:36] BlueWall Slade: Telehubs will be a case where digging into the viewer source is helpful. [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: would be nice if you can set your own fallbakc location [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: they dont send everyone to the same regions [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: they send you to something thats nearby right? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it would be a complete disaster to send everyone to just 1 region [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: dont know nebadon. i dont get much a redirect in sl [11:37] Sarah Kline: i have been sent some weird places [11:37] BlueWall Slade: you can define several [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya its pretty rare in SL but it does happen [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya but how does it choose? [11:37] Sarah Kline: they have to take account of numbers already there? [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, sometimes. ended a few times in korea [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it only choses the 2nd one if the 1st one is down right? [11:38] Sarah Kline: if its full somwhere else [11:38] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its not some formula to check which is closest [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya so technically its really only 1 sim [11:38] BlueWall Slade: right [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its not spreading the load [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: thats bad , [11:38] BlueWall Slade: well, if we get past the kicking part, then we can refine it a litte [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: thats one of the reasons Lbsa is always so full [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:38] BlueWall Slade: heh, we can send them to the highest bidder [11:38] BlueWall Slade: :) [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: ya in a grid like OSgrid just randomly choosing a nearby sim would not be good [11:39]  Warin Cascabel: Heh [11:39]  Nebadon Izumi: but maybe if it could calculate which is the closest backup [11:39]  Richardus Raymaker: hehe, dump 10 avtars on adsl conenction .. UOCH [11:39]  BlueWall Slade: we could refine it a little to select from the default/fallbacks, then monitor the number of avatars on them [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: problem is in OSgrid if its just randomly picking a nearby sim, its likely you could get several dead sims selected in a row [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: then end up having your login just timeout anyway [11:40]  BlueWall Slade: the grid admins should be the only ones that can set the region flags for defaults and fallbacks [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:40]  Nebadon Izumi: we need some kind of zoning system [11:40]  Adelle Fitzgerald is Online [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: its not posisble to make a fallback option so people get redirected to a region from the same owner ? [11:41] BlueWall Slade: data center hosted -vs- home [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, also problematic [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: sort of like a city would break up zones for police, fire, emergency services [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, you want a system the region tells the grid the QoS the region have ? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: if your in this zone you go to this place [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: etc.. etc.. [11:42] Warin Cascabel: I dunno. What about data centers that throttle bandwidth so it's actually lower than a good home connection? [11:42] BlueWall Slade: ok [11:42]  Warin Cascabel: Maybe zoning by bandwidth would make more sense. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: right alot of data centers only get 10mbs upstream [11:42] BlueWall Slade: data cneter -vs - my home [11:42] BlueWall Slade: :p [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i get 12mbps upstream from my house [11:42] Warin Cascabel: heh [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya but how do you benchmark bandwidth [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: that would be daunting, and potentially resource hungry to resolve that in any kind of fair way [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: maby monitor ping time ? [11:43] Warin Cascabel: How do you determine whether a server's in a data center or not? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats true, thats not really what i meant though [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i guess i missed something someone else said [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: packetloss nebadon ? :) [11:44] Warin Cascabel: hmmm... [11:44]  BlueWall Slade: ohh, you're talking about logins, and sending them to a particular place depending on their zone? [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: well to capture and analyze that would require a good amount of resources [11:44]  Nebadon Izumi: that did nothing but analyze traffic [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: would be very expensive [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: I would just go down the list of defaults and fallbacks, counting avatars [11:45]  Warin Cascabel: Are defaults and fallbacks set at the grid level, or at the region level? [11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: grid level [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: well, you can set them at either place atm [11:45]  Warin Cascabel: Oh, can you? [11:45]  BlueWall Slade: yes [11:46]  Richardus Raymaker: ohh ?? [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: if your in grid mode though you cant set a default / fallback can you? [11:46]  Nebadon Izumi: on the simulator [11:46] BlueWall Slade: 1 sec [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think you can [11:47] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: sounds logic in grid mode you cant [11:47] Warin Cascabel: Well, then have the default .ini files that come with the OSgrid releases not override the grid settings (which limit the fallbacks to official plazas), and if someone wants to override that to bump someone to one of their other regions, that's their business. [11:47] Sarah Kline: often the client is kicked and you end up back on the login screen...so then they can try another region [11:47] Dahlia Trimble is Online [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: but what if the sim isnt responding [11:47] BlueWall Slade: Sarah, we will re-route them [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: how the hell could it possibly send the divert signal [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: we do not store that grid side [11:47] Sarah Kline: k ) [11:48]  BlueWall Slade: if they are down, the login service gets a list of regions [11:48]  Warin Cascabel: Yeah, doesn't make sense that it can be overridden by the region. [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: i honestly do not see how a simulator could possibly do that [11:48]  Richardus Raymaker: hmm, sarah just got visible afteri did a cam out and in.. [11:48]  Warin Cascabel: I suppose that would be handy if the region were full, but I can't see how it could work when the region was down. [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:48]  Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: and right now i dont think we honor the user limit [11:48]  BlueWall Slade: what we want is just the region to send the login service something that says, "I have logins disabled" [11:48]  Nebadon Izumi: hello Dahlia [11:48]  BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia [11:49]  Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:49]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess it needs to not respond to Robust [11:49] Sarah Kline: hi Dahlia [11:49] BlueWall Slade: then, it' sup to the grid to come up with an alternate place [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: so robust gets no signal back [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: that seems to be the fail point [11:49] BlueWall Slade: we can send it back a certain response [11:49] Warin Cascabel: hm. [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we are not cutting off the signal enough [11:50] Warin Cascabel: And I suppose the region can't delay registering with the grid until after logins are enabled, because it needs to be registered with the grid in order to get assets, etc.? [11:50] BlueWall Slade: hee, we stop logins, but the response we are sending back is that the reason="LoginsDisabled" [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so i guess then maybe Robust needs to be modified? [11:50] BlueWall Slade: we just need to take that and have the login service query the backend for a list of possible alternates [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: to handle that response better? [11:50] BlueWall Slade: yep [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ok that makes sense [11:51] BlueWall Slade: the problem is in Robust atm [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: that query can not have a big impact ? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: it would be good if the way it did that query [11:51] BlueWall Slade: we already do it [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: was check the originating regions coordinates [11:51] BlueWall Slade: but just if the region isn't there [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: then look on the list of default backups [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and compare coordinates and pick the closest alt [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: then we could zone things out better [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: you land at the closest plaza [11:52] BlueWall Slade: or just hop down the list and check the numbers and send them to the first one that isn't loaded [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats how SL works i think [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: problem is [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: you could get 1000 people hitting 1 sim [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: of course OSgrid isnt that big [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but we need to think years down the road [11:52] Sarah Kline: ) [11:52]  Richardus Raymaker: you say you need a load balancer also [11:52]  BlueWall Slade: months - months [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:52]  BlueWall Slade: hehe [11:52]  Sarah Kline: lol [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: honestly even 50 people hitting the sim right now [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: would spell death for that backup [11:53]  BlueWall Slade: but [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: what would happen would be a chaiin reaction [11:53]  BlueWall Slade: if we can set a limit on it [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: of all the backup regions going down [11:53]  BlueWall Slade: and ahve the login service check the number there [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: 50 people hit 1st one [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: it crashes [11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: they all relog hit the 2nd one [11:54]  Nebadon Izumi: all relog hit the 3rd one [11:54]  BlueWall Slade: ok, maybe a random number generator [11:54]  BlueWall Slade: ? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: or check coordinates [11:54] BlueWall Slade: tha t a limit [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: if your logging into 10000,8000 [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: it sends you to the simulator thats closest to those coordinates [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so the entire grid isnt just hitting 1 spot [11:55] Warin Cascabel: That would ensure the chain failure scenario, though - if they're all trying to log into Lbsa, then it'll shuffle them all to the same nearest region. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: then you could zone out plazas/backups [11:55] BlueWall Slade: ok, makes sens [11:55] BlueWall Slade: e [11:55]  Warin Cascabel: Maybe a counter which rotates amongst the backups - first person gets sent to backup #1, second person gets sent to backup #2, etc. [11:55]  Warin Cascabel: that way it distributes them fairly evenly [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya i suppose that could work [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: then when the sim restarts it resets the counter [11:56] Warin Cascabel: right [11:56] Sarah Kline: nice [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: one potential issue i could see with that [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: you would need to make sure everything falls inside teh 4096 region bubble [11:56] Warin Cascabel: True. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: cause if you get diverted to something otuside that bubble now you have to relog [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: offtopic: i see that active scipts and objects get negative on sims. after restart the seems to be normal. any reason for that ? [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: do the grid services know how many people are in a region? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:57] Warin Cascabel: I can't believe that 4096-region limit is still around after all this time. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Presence Table [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: can calculate how many people are in a region [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: warin, the viewer have still the bug [11:57] Warin Cascabel: I know, Richardus. It's been known for years, so I'm surprised it's still around. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a viewer issue [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: that no one seems to be able to get around [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think basically to fix it truly it requires a data type conversion or something [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that might break compatability, i dunno [11:58] BlueWall Slade: viewer2 would have been a good place to do that [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: meaning SL would have to fix it also [11:58] Warin Cascabel: I can understand why LL wouldn't be keen on fixing it. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya LL has no need to really [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: LL is what 35000 sims [11:59] BlueWall Slade: but, they (LL) will never get large enough to user it [11:59]  Warin Cascabel: But the TPVs have fixed other bugs before, so I'm surprised they didn't attack this one. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: 4096x4096 = 16777216 regions [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: wwhat are the doing with the otehr 6bits ? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya i wont even try to attempt to explain it [12:00]  Richardus Raymaker: uhmm 8 bits, oops [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: it has something to do with how the coordinates are transmitted [12:00] Warin Cascabel: 4096 regions is 1024*1024 meters. Certainly should be able to fit more into a 32-bit integer. [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i guess when you combine all the details together anything over 4096 exceeds the field [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: its more than coordinates or something [12:00] BlueWall Slade: maybe it is in the encoding they do [12:00]  BlueWall Slade: in the LLSD [12:00] Warin Cascabel: could be [12:01]  Warin Cascabel: strip off the high byte for fraction of a meter, or something [12:01] Warin Cascabel: (or low byte) [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya Teravus did a fairly good job of explaining it [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: but i dont remember exactly what he said now [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: basically we are overflowing the value [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: beyond 4096 [12:02] BlueWall Slade: the thing is, it will move you there [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: its not possible to give a warning in the viewer someway that you cross the 4096 limit ? [12:02] Warin Cascabel: Hmph. [12:02] BlueWall Slade: you just dont' see prims [12:02] BlueWall Slade: but [12:02] BlueWall Slade: you can see prims next-door [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: and no land bluewall [12:03] BlueWall Slade: right [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go. See you around, folks [12:03] BlueWall Slade: nothing is rendered in that one [12:03] BlueWall Slade: bye Justin [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: kk later Justin, thanks for coming [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: it would be nice that people know when the step over the edge [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:03] Sarah Kline: bye justin [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey waves