Chat log from the meeting on 2014-09-30

[2014/09/30 10:58] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [2014/09/30 10:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 10:58] Connected [2014/09/30 10:58] Teleport completed from https://2013_opensim_com/region/Keynote%201/251/250/22 [2014/09/30 10:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 10:58] Connected [2014/09/30 10:59] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 10:59] Connected [2014/09/30 10:59] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [2014/09/30 10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: hey [2014/09/30 10:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin [2014/09/30 11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone :) [2014/09/30 11:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: did you update this region with a recent ghosts too? [2014/09/30 11:03]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I thought I might be able to do a direct log in to here but I can't. Perhaps I just don't have the right password. [2014/09/30 11:03]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: at least tp attempt #2 got me here....hopefully with everything still attached [2014/09/30 11:03]  Sarah Kline: hi [2014/09/30 11:03]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hi, Sarah [2014/09/30 11:04]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: um...what's up with justy? Ants in the Ruth pants? [2014/09/30 11:04]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi sarah [2014/09/30 11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: this is my default lag testing pacing, when I'm not doing something on some other screen [2014/09/30 11:04] logger.Sewell @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hey all finally found the place [2014/09/30 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: my ping is really high at the moment [2014/09/30 11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: justin, ah ok [2014/09/30 11:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: is this region running a recent ghosts? [2014/09/30 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i just updated Justin [2014/09/30 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [2014/09/30 11:05]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I have an errand or two on my ToDo list so I won't be staying for the load test. [2014/09/30 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: huh wait a second [2014/09/30 11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew [2014/09/30 11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Hey Richardus [2014/09/30 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: about reports it is [2014/09/30 11:06]  Nebadon Izumi: Justin [2014/09/30 11:06] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Welcome to the OS developer meeting, Geo [2014/09/30 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i updated it but it doesnt seem to have actually updated to latest hash [2014/09/30 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [2014/09/30 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: oh i lie [2014/09/30 11:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Offline [2014/09/30 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i was looking at wrong hash, i was 1 back sorry my bad it is right [2014/09/30 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [2014/09/30 11:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, you may be pleased to know I finally found out why the bots were dropping off so badly [2014/09/30 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: a load of them had not accepted the tos [2014/09/30 11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I've been thinking about having the default Makefile create a .version [2014/09/30 11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: lol, smart bots ? [2014/09/30 11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ah, good catch, Justin [2014/09/30 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: so I'm hoping for much better bot persistence today [2014/09/30 11:07] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [2014/09/30 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it took 6 weeks... mainly because I just wasn't getting enough time to look into it :( [2014/09/30 11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 nods [2014/09/30 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: still, I should have much more time between now and the conference, which is needed [2014/09/30 11:08]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [2014/09/30 11:08]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, are you going to be doing more work on the login process? [2014/09/30 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: in what way? [2014/09/30 11:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: you mean documenting? [2014/09/30 11:09]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi [2014/09/30 11:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [2014/09/30 11:09]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Reducing the load on the system when there are multiple simultaneous logins. [2014/09/30 11:09]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi dahlia [2014/09/30 11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: you mean entry into a sim really then, right? [2014/09/30 11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: hi Dahia [2014/09/30 11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: um... yea. [2014/09/30 11:09] Vreta 2 Seat Sofa And Footstool: started [2014/09/30 11:09] Vreta 2 Seat Sofa And Footstool: started [2014/09/30 11:09] Vreta 2 Seat Sofa And Footstool: started [2014/09/30 11:09] Vreta 2 Seat Sofa: started [2014/09/30 11:09] Vreta 2 Seat Sofa And Footstool: started [2014/09/30 11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: only if it's intolerable. My focus currently is on looking at issues like the connection stuff last week [2014/09/30 11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, if you want to do paperwork (documentation), more docs about the scripting engine would be helpful. [2014/09/30 11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok [2014/09/30 11:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: I am definitely at the stage now that I'm willing to accept imperfection :) [2014/09/30 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: for instance, I finally found out why sometimes the bots were complaining about duplicate messages received, but I still don't understand why mono is behaving the way it does [2014/09/30 11:11]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, which mono are you using these days? [2014/09/30 11:11]  Justin Clark-Casey: 3.2.8, as shipped with ubuntu 14.04 [2014/09/30 11:12]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: ok. My main computer wont boot at the moment so I'm not in a position to do much OS code development. [2014/09/30 11:12]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I don't remember the version I'm using. [2014/09/30 11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: for some reaosn, mono always appears to set SO_REUSEADDR for the sockets [2014/09/30 11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: which appears to mean sometimes a bot will get the same socket as another connection [2014/09/30 11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought I had found a bug that fixed this very thing, but I only realized recently it was from 2004 and not 2014.... [2014/09/30 11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hm... that should be easy(?) to track down in mono. [2014/09/30 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: why should it be easy? [2014/09/30 11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, I mean same local port, not same socket [2014/09/30 11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: You can look for places where mono sets the flag. [2014/09/30 11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: well yes, that's easy enough. The problem is understanding why it's being done [2014/09/30 11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: If you find where it is being set you might get lucky to find out why. [2014/09/30 11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: well I have, and I'm not [2014/09/30 11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: bah, its such a pain being on a laptop running Windows 8. Feels like I am trying to do things with one hand tied behind my back. [2014/09/30 11:15] Voice not available at your current location [2014/09/30 11:15] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 11:15] Connected [2014/09/30 11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: oh. hm... [2014/09/30 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: neb: out of curiosity, I presume vivox voice has come back? [2014/09/30 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: yes [2014/09/30 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: it actually came about right in the middle of the vtech con [2014/09/30 11:16] Nebadon Izumi: i was scrambling to get people to mute their mics cause it started echoing back bad [2014/09/30 11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: HAnds andrewe the hay and Needle [2014/09/30 11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, since I mentioned login/TP issues earlier, I ran across a couple of TP related features that do not appear to be supported in OS. [2014/09/30 11:17] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Richardus, thanks. I'll save those for when I get my main desktop up and running again. Might be another week or two if I need to get a replacement motherboard. [2014/09/30 11:17] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I've noticed with a alternative UDP protool I wrote for OpenSim that sometimes the client uses the same client port as it used in a previous run and the server needs to track additional data in order to get acks right if the previous session "connection" is still open and processing acks [2014/09/30 11:18] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I wonder if thats similar to what you are seeing justin [2014/09/30 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I think what I'm seeing is somewhat different but it's the same kind of thing [2014/09/30 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: the server ends up with 2 connections pointing to the same endpoint [2014/09/30 11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya [2014/09/30 11:19]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: and it confuses them [2014/09/30 11:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but LLUDP can use CircuitCode to differentiate them I'd think/ [2014/09/30 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: in this case, it does appear to be libomv getting two udp sockets bound to the same local port. It appears to go away if one sets socket option ReuseAddress = false [2014/09/30 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: in the packet itself? [2014/09/30 11:20] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: you set it client side? [2014/09/30 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2014/09/30 11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: It might be a libomv issue rather than a mono one? [2014/09/30 11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya I think so [2014/09/30 11:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, I don't think libomv is at fault - I think the issue is actually in mono itself [2014/09/30 11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: but I need to write a better isolated test case to probe it [2014/09/30 11:21]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: would be better(?) if it was libomv. Smaller haystack. [2014/09/30 11:21] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: UDP is "connectionless" and doesnt really define that kind of thing very well [2014/09/30 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: well, this comes back to the fact that I think i can see where ReuseAddress = true is always set in mono, but I don't understand why they would be doing that [2014/09/30 11:22] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but I'd think libomv would be the place to fix it [2014/09/30 11:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: and I could be wrong still, so an isolated test case should be easy to write to test the behaviour [2014/09/30 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know a lot about this stuff, but I assume that once a socket is bound to a local port, it shouldn't be possible for another socket to bind [2014/09/30 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: unless something like ReuseAddress = true [2014/09/30 11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think the bind occurs on the server side [2014/09/30 11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: no, the client has to bind to a local port [2014/09/30 11:23] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the client just grabs whatever it believes is free and uses it [2014/09/30 11:23]  Justin Clark-Casey: which is then sent to the server in the UseCircuitCode (or similar) packet [2014/09/30 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: so the server knows where to send the UDP [2014/09/30 11:24] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh maybe libomv does that [2014/09/30 11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: The problem is on the outgoing side? [2014/09/30 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: it should be getting a unique port but that does not always happen [2014/09/30 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: hence tracing this back to mono [2014/09/30 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: the problem is on the client side, not with the server [2014/09/30 11:24] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and windows ? [2014/09/30 11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: server can't do anything about it [2014/09/30 11:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: and this problem is probably only likely with pCampbot [2014/09/30 11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: which runs a lot of connections from the same machine [2014/09/30 11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Could it be a race issue? [2014/09/30 11:25] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: if you find where it's documented that it should get a unique port I'd like to see it [2014/09/30 11:26]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I didn't mean now :) [2014/09/30 11:26]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: :) [2014/09/30 11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I can't immediate find it anyway :) [2014/09/30 11:26]  Justin Clark-Casey: maybe we should talk about some other topic if anyone has one [2014/09/30 11:27]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I do [2014/09/30 11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: ok my 80 clients are logged in [2014/09/30 11:27]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: There are a couple of TP related issues that aren't supported in OS AFAICT [2014/09/30 11:27]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm going to go back to logging in pCampbot when we get there today - I'm hoping we won't see the same problem now the tsos issue is resolved [2014/09/30 11:27]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: If you turn off Allow Direct Teleport in aregion you can still TP. [2014/09/30 11:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: without a telehub? [2014/09/30 11:28]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: If you set TP routing to Landing Point it won't keep sending you to the set LP. [2014/09/30 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: isnt that the same behavior as SL though? [2014/09/30 11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yes, without a TH. I was testing this over in SL the other day to compare behaviour against OS [2014/09/30 11:28] Voice not available at your current location [2014/09/30 11:29] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 11:29] Connected [2014/09/30 11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I don't know how deep I would have to dig in to the code to see where these settings are used during a TP. [2014/09/30 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: just look through the code, it's easy! [2014/09/30 11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I've got people working on a Halloween themed sim and they wanted to disable TP's within the region. [2014/09/30 11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hehe, sure. :P [2014/09/30 11:31] Tiffany.Magic @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 coughs.... chokes.... [2014/09/30 11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure there's any way to disable within region tps atm... [2014/09/30 11:31] Tiffany.Magic @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: It's ALL soooooo easy..... [2014/09/30 11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: As my machine will be offline for a while I'll have to get a copy of the OS code on to this laptop. [2014/09/30 11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi tiffany [2014/09/30 11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Justin, not atm perhaps. I'm hoping that it might be something that can be fixed. I also have heard how the TP process can be messy so I wasn't sure if it is something I'd be able to fix without getting lost in the complexity of the code. [2014/09/30 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: TP is supremely complex [2014/09/30 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: but the code to control whether one can tp at all is less so [2014/09/30 11:32]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 pushes it onto Justin's ToDo pile [2014/09/30 11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: /menods [2014/09/30 11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: carefull andrew, dont make it crahs [2014/09/30 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not even sure what the problem is yet tbh [2014/09/30 11:33] Voice not available at your current location [2014/09/30 11:33] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 11:33] Connected [2014/09/30 11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: A code search should turn up where the settings are checked. That will narrow down the area of code involved. [2014/09/30 11:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 notices justin's stack has overflowed and it might get ugly when it pops.... [2014/09/30 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: It will entirely corrupt me [2014/09/30 11:34]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hehe [2014/09/30 11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 passes Justin a DROP operation [2014/09/30 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, there are a very long list of things I'd like to address but conf stuff is taking up waht spare time I've had [2014/09/30 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: perf work is... not easy [2014/09/30 11:34] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 reboots justin and allows the system update to run.... [2014/09/30 11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 thinks that is the right FORTH operation for removing unwanted items from the stack. [2014/09/30 11:35] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: OMG I used Forth once [2014/09/30 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I booted colorforth once :) [2014/09/30 11:35]  Justin Clark-Casey: one floppy disk, straight in the pc [2014/09/30 11:35]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Andrew, a Mantis would be useful, then others may look into the issue. [2014/09/30 11:36]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I found my BYTE Book Of Forthrecently [2014/09/30 11:36]  vegaslon.plutonian @vegaslon.ddns.net:9000: does anyone see a problem with creating a ossl function that allows you to force a user to sit on a specific prim by uuid? [2014/09/30 11:36]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Billy, true. This issue only came up in the last day or so. I haven't gotten around to doing a mantis for it. [2014/09/30 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: somebody did do http://opensimulator.org/mantis/print_bug_page.php?bug_id=4492 but they never got back to me when the patches wouldn't apply [2014/09/30 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [2014/09/30 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: we need to fix this stand up animation bug [2014/09/30 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: does everyone see me sitting right now? [2014/09/30 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: no [2014/09/30 11:37]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's not consistent, afaik [2014/09/30 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: my second avatar sees this avatar still isitting [2014/09/30 11:38] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: i see you still sitting [2014/09/30 11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: @Vega: as long as its threat level is quite high 'd like that function [2014/09/30 11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: essentially an avi version of osNpcSit [2014/09/30 11:38] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: speaking of ossl functions, I find the current "threat level" approach very inflexible. I'd like to be able to enable some functions but not others but i cant since they are so arbitrarily grouped into threat levels [2014/09/30 11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: it would be nice if there was some way to do it individually [2014/09/30 11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: you can set them1 by one [2014/09/30 11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: how? [2014/09/30 11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: in inXEngine [2014/09/30 11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: Allow_osNpCSit = true [2014/09/30 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Threat_level [2014/09/30 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/oscc/wtf_02.png [2014/09/30 11:39] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I havent seen that, will look again [2014/09/30 11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: or Allow_osNpcSit = ESTATE_OWNER, or whatever [2014/09/30 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: it's still a pita - I had an issue with something last time but can't remember what [2014/09/30 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it would be useful to be able to set a level by type [2014/09/30 11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so Allow)ESTATE_OWNER = VeryHigh [2014/09/30 11:40]  Justin Clark-Casey nods [2014/09/30 11:41]  Justin Clark-Casey: you're then trusting those levels are accurate though [2014/09/30 11:41]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeah [2014/09/30 11:41]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: some are a little mystifying :p [2014/09/30 11:41]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Dahlia, The Allow_ = true/false has been around for a while and is handy if you want fine control over which functions are enabled. Just set threat level low when using the Allow feature. [2014/09/30 11:42]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: there are a few low threat ones that I think could be abused somewhat, and a few high/veryhigh ones that I can't imagine how to abuse :p [2014/09/30 11:42]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I know a few ways to abuse things that others dont seem to grasp ;) [2014/09/30 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: it is something of a fig leaf when a shitty script can degrade a sim pretty easily./ But that should eventually get fixed [2014/09/30 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, and inventive minds can turn a lot of this stuff to abuse I imagine :) [2014/09/30 11:43]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Aine, I had discussions with Melanie ages ago about threat level. It isn't as much about if they can be abused. It is also whether they involve things like triggering queries in to the database(s). [2014/09/30 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: allowing someone to start running code on your server is always scary... [2014/09/30 11:43]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but there are probably a thousand ways to do that by sending certain client messages again and again [2014/09/30 11:43]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I would also like to make it impossible to clone someone's appearance without them being at least notified that it is being done (and ideally there should be a permission check) [2014/09/30 11:44]  Justin Clark-Casey: in fact, that's one of my perennial worries when it comes to higher profile events [2014/09/30 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: wierd even after sitting and standing [2014/09/30 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: im still stuck as sitting on other screen [2014/09/30 11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I've been cloned 2 times now without my permission or knowledge...only happened to find out about it by luck [2014/09/30 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: im stuck sitting until then [2014/09/30 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: seems like only a relog will fix [2014/09/30 11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: and who knows how many other times it has been done [2014/09/30 11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Aine, you can clone an avatars apearance for an NPC. Not sure how you would do it otherwise unless its a copybot viewer in use. [2014/09/30 11:44] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: stop animating avatar oesnt fix it Meb? [2014/09/30 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: nope [2014/09/30 11:44] Tiffany.Magic @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Nebadon... you are walking all over the screen on my viewer. [2014/09/30 11:45] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: Neb^ [2014/09/30 11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: right....I'm taling about appearance notecards [2014/09/30 11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I see you standing, Neb [2014/09/30 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: what's the stuck av name? Nebadon izumi? [2014/09/30 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yes [2014/09/30 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the local one [2014/09/30 11:45] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: the way I see it is.... if you are travelling on the hypergrid expect that anything you wear or is in your suitcase will be cloned and used in a way you probably dont approve of [2014/09/30 11:45] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I don't believe you should be able to clone appearance of someone without their express permission [2014/09/30 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: its wierd some people see me fine [2014/09/30 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: others dont [2014/09/30 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I feel a message has got lost somewhere [2014/09/30 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 11:45]  Nebadon Izumi: but why doesnt sit and stand resend it [2014/09/30 11:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: some clients have got the changed animation message and others have not [2014/09/30 11:45] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: kinda like anything you do on google or facebook :P [2014/09/30 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: could you sit a moment? [2014/09/30 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: now stand? [2014/09/30 11:46] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: standing now [2014/09/30 11:46] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: sitting agaain [2014/09/30 11:46] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: and Dahlia, that's not a HG suitcase thing at all....just visit any region you aren't the owner of and it could happen [2014/09/30 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: yep still sitting on my other avatars screen [2014/09/30 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so in console you can see the animatnions cycling - it's very odd that it just becomes 'stuck' somewhere [2014/09/30 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: does it fix it you teleport out and back in? [2014/09/30 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lets find out [2014/09/30 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: brb [2014/09/30 11:47] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Aine, well if its on the same grid as you then they can get into your inventory also [2014/09/30 11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: right [2014/09/30 11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but it's hard [2014/09/30 11:47] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but not impossible [2014/09/30 11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: vs a sensor event that auto-clones anyone who enters a region [2014/09/30 11:47] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'd hope if anyone knows the code that well that they become a contributor :) [2014/09/30 11:47]  Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: hmm shouldnt have tp'd to Keynote 1 [2014/09/30 11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: taking forever to load [2014/09/30 11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: im guessing throttling problem isnt fixed [2014/09/30 11:48]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it's not code....it's an ossl function so anyone with basic scripting skill can do it [2014/09/30 11:48]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah..... [2014/09/30 11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: avatar is stuck and nothing is loading [2014/09/30 11:48]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: which function? [2014/09/30 11:48]  Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Aine, which ossl function? [2014/09/30 11:48]  Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: im seeing like 1 prim load every few seconds [2014/09/30 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so, a radical thing to try would be to disable adaptive throttle entirely and restart region [2014/09/30 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: but I've no idea what the effect would be [2014/09/30 11:49]  Justin Clark-Casey: the problem as I'm piecing it together, is that traffic load is causing packet expiry. And throttle is halved every time a packet expires [2014/09/30 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: that would mean relogging 80 clients [2014/09/30 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: osAgentSaveAppearance(key who) [2014/09/30 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: so a short delay is emnough to really knock it down [2014/09/30 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: so put that in a sensor sent [2014/09/30 11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: *event [2014/09/30 11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: I tried to put ina mechanism to change adaptive throttle setting on the fly but unfortunately just ran out of time [2014/09/30 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: things look very bad at Keynotes right now [2014/09/30 11:49] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: i suspect todays testing is going to go very bad [2014/09/30 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: and clone whoever you want with no perm check and no notificataion [2014/09/30 11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: maybe its just my network though [2014/09/30 11:50] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: I think my avatar is hosed at keynote [2014/09/30 11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Aine, but that one has a high threat level? [2014/09/30 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: right [2014/09/30 11:50] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: That is oneof those functions that you would not usually want enabled. [2014/09/30 11:50] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: this is why I want individual control over os functions [2014/09/30 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: wow made it back amazing [2014/09/30 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: now im being throttled here [2014/09/30 11:50] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: sure [2014/09/30 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i can feel it [2014/09/30 11:50]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: but I can't set it for a region I visit [2014/09/30 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: im getting 1 prim like every 10 seconds [2014/09/30 11:51] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I'd like to use NPCs but I dont want a lot of the other functions that are similarly grouped by threat level [2014/09/30 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: movement is horrible [2014/09/30 11:51] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: and I'd like to be able to visit most regions with some assurance that I won't be cloned without my consent [2014/09/30 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: loo [2014/09/30 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: looks like walking animation si right now [2014/09/30 11:51] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: Aine, assume you will be cloned [2014/09/30 11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but my connection is being clobbered, major lag [2014/09/30 11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Dahlia: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OSSL_Enabling_Functions [2014/09/30 11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: at present,that's exactly what I assume [2014/09/30 11:52] Nebadon Izumi: you see me being throttled justin? feels the same as last week right now [2014/09/30 11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: yep, HG avatar smooth as butter [2014/09/30 11:52] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: local avatar getting 1fps [2014/09/30 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: not to bad enough level [2014/09/30 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: it's always going to be worst when the sim is stilling push stuff at you [2014/09/30 11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: however I would like to see that become a perm-checked function or at very least one where you are notified [2014/09/30 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: i cant even control this avatar [2014/09/30 11:53] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 moves ok [2014/09/30 11:53]  Nebadon Izumi: real bad chat lag too [2014/09/30 11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it just jumps 10m [2014/09/30 11:53] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: still fine here [2014/09/30 11:53] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: that throttle seems to have no ability to let go [2014/09/30 11:53]  Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: lockjaw [2014/09/30 11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: hmm... the wiki for osAgentSaveAppearance doesn't list a threat level [2014/09/30 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hah now my HG avatar appears stuck sitting to me [2014/09/30 11:54]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: iirc it's very hight [2014/09/30 11:54] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: *VeryHigh [2014/09/30 11:55] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: movement borked now [2014/09/30 11:55] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Aine, I can't check the code. If that is what it says in the OSSL_API.cs file the wiki needs updating [2014/09/30 11:55] Tiffany.Magic @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Ok.... well, I have work to do for Virtual Highway. I hope you and all your personalities work out the issue, Nebadon. lol Thank you all for all you do for Opensim. [2014/09/30 11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: how about now if i stop moving my crappy avatar [2014/09/30 11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: i dont get why its always my local avatar [2014/09/30 11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: and my HG is fine [2014/09/30 11:55] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: just before load test....any word at all from the folks at LSN? [2014/09/30 11:55] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: its not random, its definitely always my local avatar [2014/09/30 11:55] logger.Sewell @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: yeh same here see you all next week [2014/09/30 11:56] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: I need to head out andrun some errands shortly [2014/09/30 11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: I havent heard anything Aine [2014/09/30 11:56] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: beleive me when they hear something you guys will know [2014/09/30 11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye andrew [2014/09/30 11:56] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: bye [2014/09/30 11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: try nebadon izumi now [2014/09/30 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: hmm feels smooth now [2014/09/30 11:57] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: weee [2014/09/30 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: what did you do? [2014/09/30 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: its perfect again suddenly [2014/09/30 11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: lots of rumours out there about it being another 2-3 months so might be worth some kind of comment even if it's "don't know anything yet" [2014/09/30 11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I disabled and re-enabled adaptive, but I think it's coincidence [2014/09/30 11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: people get antsy when they hear silence [2014/09/30 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno as soon as you said you changed it [2014/09/30 11:57]  Nebadon Izumi: it felt better [2014/09/30 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: its perfect again [2014/09/30 11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i was litteraly getting 1fps or less before [2014/09/30 11:58] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: Ariewhy not set up a temp grid for people to go to in the meantime [2014/09/30 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: it might simply be that the region finally stopped pushing data [2014/09/30 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: all the missing content is visible now too [2014/09/30 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: and packets stopped expiring so much and pushing the throttle down [2014/09/30 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: it all hapened right as you said try again [2014/09/30 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I would almost be tempted to dsiable adapative throttling for kn1, though you will lose your bot logins there of course [2014/09/30 11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: and see what happens [2014/09/30 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/09/30 11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: how do I do that? [2014/09/30 11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: @Andrew: can you think of any reason I can't HG tp to GCG but can go anywhere else without trouble? [2014/09/30 11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: you would need to set enable_adapative_throttles = false in [ClientStack.LindenUDP] in OpenSim.ini [2014/09/30 11:59] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002: Aine, No idea. I don't have much interest in HG. I only use an HG TP to get here. [2014/09/30 11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if the adpative throttle is simply too keen to knock down the rates when it sees expired packets [2014/09/30 11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: ah...kk [2014/09/30 12:00]  Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: (Buckminster would be proud of this dome :P) [2014/09/30 12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ok 1 sec [2014/09/30 12:00] Andrew.Hellershanks @login.greatcanadiangrid.ca:8002 waves goodbye [2014/09/30 12:00] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: tc Andrew [2014/09/30 12:00] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 tps to keynote 1 [2014/09/30 12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000 heads over to KN1 [2014/09/30 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, tell me when you've restarted and we'll head over I guess - I will need to reenable stats recording [2014/09/30 12:00] Nebadon Izumi: Wait! [2014/09/30 12:00] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: or are you rebooting it? [2014/09/30 12:00] Nebadon Izumi: DONT GO [2014/09/30 12:00]  Nebadon Izumi: yes rebooting it 1 sec [2014/09/30 12:00] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: OK [2014/09/30 12:00]  Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: Is the sim going down? [2014/09/30 12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess i can see you doing it though... [2014/09/30 12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: okies [2014/09/30 12:00] Nebadon Izumi: yes i already had logins disabled [2014/09/30 12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: :P [2014/09/30 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: almost back [2014/09/30 12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: HURRY [2014/09/30 12:01] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: GO FASTER [2014/09/30 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ok ready Justin? [2014/09/30 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you spelt it wrong [2014/09/30 12:01] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Some large lady is still singing [2014/09/30 12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: run Spot, run! [2014/09/30 12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i copied and pasted :/ [2014/09/30 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: adapative instead of adaptive... [2014/09/30 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: uh, sorry :( [2014/09/30 12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: I spelt it wrong [2014/09/30 12:01]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: isnt spelt some kind of grain? [2014/09/30 12:02]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: they make booze out of it [2014/09/30 12:02]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: many try to find it in the grain [2014/09/30 12:02]  Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: does Staff Zone control the sandbox sim or does each sim have its own instance? [2014/09/30 12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: ok ready? [2014/09/30 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok ready [2014/09/30 12:03]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelt [2014/09/30 12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: spelt might be an Englishism [2014/09/30 12:03]  Region found! [2014/09/30 12:03]  Region found! [2014/09/30 12:03]  Teleport completed from https://2013_opensim_com/region/Staff%20Zone%201/130/57/85 [2014/09/30 12:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 12:03] Connected [2014/09/30 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: you may also experience much more immediate mvmt on login [2014/09/30 12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yes, definitely [2014/09/30 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: It may also perform badly but in a different way under heavy load [2014/09/30 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: is a sufficient volume of outbound packets delays updates too much for everyone [2014/09/30 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: things ok for you neb? [2014/09/30 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: not yet no [2014/09/30 12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: i dont see neighbors [2014/09/30 12:06] Nebadon Izumi: my HG avatar everything loaded instantly [2014/09/30 12:06] Nebadon Izumi: my local avatar im not seeing a damn thing yet [2014/09/30 12:06] Victor.Cruiser @forever.is-by.us:9000: sorry I tp here during tests [2014/09/30 12:06] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: thats ok Victor [2014/09/30 12:06] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: its open to everyone please stay [2014/09/30 12:06] Victor.Cruiser @forever.is-by.us:9000: thank you [2014/09/30 12:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I think I see everything [2014/09/30 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: why is it my local avatar is getting clobbered [2014/09/30 12:07] Victor.Cruiser @forever.is-by.us:9000: all work fine for me [2014/09/30 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: but HG is fine [2014/09/30 12:07] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: fine for me [2014/09/30 12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: makes zero sense [2014/09/30 12:07] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: loaded fast even [2014/09/30 12:07] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: some movement lag [2014/09/30 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: my HG avatar everyting rezzed instantly [2014/09/30 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: within 10 seconds [2014/09/30 12:07] Nebadon Izumi: this avatar i still only see about 30% of the content [2014/09/30 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: oh there goes [2014/09/30 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: still there was a noticeable difference between 2 avatars running same client on same machine [2014/09/30 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: its bewildering [2014/09/30 12:08] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: arielle is a cloud [2014/09/30 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya stuff is still loading actually [2014/09/30 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt feel as bad as last week though [2014/09/30 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: so slight improvement [2014/09/30 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: but overall still pretty bad [2014/09/30 12:09] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Give us a rebake Arielle [2014/09/30 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting, throttles still change even with this disabled [2014/09/30 12:09] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: rebaked from menu [2014/09/30 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: heh my HG avatar is still stuck sitting to me even after teleport [2014/09/30 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: without apparent setting from the client [2014/09/30 12:09] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: i see everything and everyone fine [2014/09/30 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we hav a double throttle? [2014/09/30 12:10] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: did i rezz? [2014/09/30 12:10] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: still cloudy [2014/09/30 12:10] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Arielle, you still apear as a cload [2014/09/30 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: the map tile generation had a double [2014/09/30 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: the trouble is I'm only just coming up to look at this stuff in super detail now - just got guillotined today [2014/09/30 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: wouldnt surprise me [2014/09/30 12:10]  Victor.Cruiser @forever.is-by.us:9000: no, you are a cloud for me [2014/09/30 12:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: no, it's not that simple... but interesting stuff is clearly happening still [2014/09/30 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it feels like its recovering now though [2014/09/30 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: i can see almost everything now [2014/09/30 12:11] Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: i did and there still for load [2014/09/30 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it feels less jerkey [2014/09/30 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: you see, much higher throttles may cause other issues with outbound getting overloaded [2014/09/30 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: however [2014/09/30 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: which might settle down after a while [2014/09/30 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: the HG avatar still feels smoother when moving [2014/09/30 12:11] Nebadon Izumi: nah its the same at the moemnt [2014/09/30 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: interesting [2014/09/30 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: there was definitely some level of change this week [2014/09/30 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: last week there was zero recovery [2014/09/30 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: this is the effect of changing that adaptive setting [2014/09/30 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: even 4 relogs didnt help [2014/09/30 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: adaptive is definitely depressing some connections for some reason [2014/09/30 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's surprising that didn't show up before now [2014/09/30 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I know why it depresses them - it sees lots of packets expiring [2014/09/30 12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, gonna start botting in a couple of minutes [2014/09/30 12:13] Nebadon Izumi: the fact it rully recovered this week is huge boost even though its not great [2014/09/30 12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I would at least like to get a bot load in today [2014/09/30 12:13] Nebadon Izumi: would the adaptive throttle in neighbor regions have any effect on child agents? [2014/09/30 12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, they may get knocked down too [2014/09/30 12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/09/30 12:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: for instance, on kn2 you have been knocked down to 87 kbit/s total [2014/09/30 12:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe why i still feel som jutter here [2014/09/30 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: that shouldn't affect here though [2014/09/30 12:14] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/09/30 12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: is there a big difference between my 2 avatars? [2014/09/30 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: no, same atm [2014/09/30 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool [2014/09/30 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats good news [2014/09/30 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, botting starting now [2014/09/30 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: kk [2014/09/30 12:15]  Arielle.Popstar @hypergrid.org:8002: still cloudy? [2014/09/30 12:15] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes Arielle :-( [2014/09/30 12:16]  Cheopss Forlife7: hello [2014/09/30 12:16]  Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: hi Cheopss [2014/09/30 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: hi cheopss [2014/09/30 12:16]  Justin Clark-Casey: so bots, today from 4 sources [2014/09/30 12:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: 1 lot from my lcao system, 1 lot from another of my systems, 1 from ec2 and 1 from neb's server [2014/09/30 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: your using my server today too? [2014/09/30 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: great [2014/09/30 12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: it feels very good at the moment [2014/09/30 12:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: currently logging into kn2 [2014/09/30 12:18]  Rhiannon Chatnoir is Online [2014/09/30 12:19]  Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: My viewer always sees AvatarGroupRelpy before any of the bots AvatarAppearance [2014/09/30 12:19]  Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: avatars standing others heads lol [2014/09/30 12:20] Nebadon Izumi: little laggy feeling at the moment [2014/09/30 12:20] Rhiannon Chatnoir: hello all [2014/09/30 12:20] Nebadon Izumi: not terrible though [2014/09/30 12:20] Nebadon Izumi: hello! [2014/09/30 12:20] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: hi Rhiannon [2014/09/30 12:20] harthelie.deux @ignis-fatuus.no-ip.biz:8002: bonsoir [2014/09/30 12:20] Cheopss Forlife7: hello RHiannon [2014/09/30 12:21] Cheopss Forlife7: bonsoir harthelie! [2014/09/30 12:21] Justin Clark-Casey: hello harthelie [2014/09/30 12:21] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: 163 and counting [2014/09/30 12:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm hoping I found the bot logging off issue [2014/09/30 12:22] Justin Clark-Casey: it turned out a byunch of them had not accepted the TOS [2014/09/30 12:22] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: eh [2014/09/30 12:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: neb: starting connections from your lcoal server [2014/09/30 12:22] OSCC Token *Rez Me* whispers: Not in Sandbox. Where am I? [2014/09/30 12:22] OSCC Token *Rez Me*: Spin, sputter, and die here... [2014/09/30 12:23] Cheopss Forlife7: salut Max [2014/09/30 12:23] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: interesting, you explicitly set some throttle maximums here? [2014/09/30 12:23] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: hmmm... the create account link displays a blank page o_O [2014/09/30 12:25] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: create an account where? [2014/09/30 12:26] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: http://cc.opensimulator.org:8005/wifi/user/account//?sid=a1f6f157-db76-42a7-bba2-178283f6090f [2014/09/30 12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: those accounts require authorization [2014/09/30 12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: please dont make accounts [2014/09/30 12:26] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: just makes more work for me to erase them [2014/09/30 12:26] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: ok ops [2014/09/30 12:26] Region found! [2014/09/30 12:26] Region found! [2014/09/30 12:26] Teleport completed from https://2013_opensim_com/region/Keynote%201/236/238/23 [2014/09/30 12:26] Region found! [2014/09/30 12:26] Region found! [2014/09/30 12:27] Teleport completed from https://2013_opensim_com/region/Keynote%203/241/21/22 [2014/09/30 12:27] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: accounts are currently not being created yet though [2014/09/30 12:27] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [2014/09/30 12:27] Connected [2014/09/30 12:27] Rhiannon Chatnoir: yes we will be creating accounts for those who are registered closer to the conference date [2014/09/30 12:27] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: sponsors and crowdfunders who chose a parcel will be getting accounts soonish [2014/09/30 12:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you set throttle maximums here? [2014/09/30 12:28] Rhiannon Chatnoir: so have to use hypergrid accounts for now for testing, etc., if you arent one of our volunteers [2014/09/30 12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: Justin probably [2014/09/30 12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: we do that at all the plazas too [2014/09/30 12:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm theorizing that the available bw is being share dbetween all connections [2014/09/30 12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: i think it was mic who had me testing that stuff long ago [2014/09/30 12:28] Rhiannon Chatnoir: btw Neb, darkened the podium some to try to get the avacan logo to be legible [2014/09/30 12:28] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: 250 [2014/09/30 12:28] Justin Clark-Casey: which is why throttles are showing a steady drop [2014/09/30 12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: and i left it in place [2014/09/30 12:28] Justin Clark-Casey: as more connections are made [2014/09/30 12:28] Rhiannon Chatnoir: the Con part dissappears into the color of the podium [2014/09/30 12:28] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: it shold be per connection throttle though? [2014/09/30 12:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I think the total scene is shared between all connections [2014/09/30 12:29] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: hmm [2014/09/30 12:29] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: those numbers are pretty low [2014/09/30 12:29] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: are you sure? [2014/09/30 12:29] Justin Clark-Casey: I would be surprised if this wasn't the casre. Remember those numbers are kb and not bytes [2014/09/30 12:29] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: oh right there are 2 settings [2014/09/30 12:30] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: so what is the throttle set for? [2014/09/30 12:30] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: i dont have it open [2014/09/30 12:30] Justin Clark-Casey: scene is 2500000, client is 350000 [2014/09/30 12:30] Justin Clark-Casey: os client is 350 kbits and scene 2.5 mbit [2014/09/30 12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: so the entire scene is like 2.5 [2014/09/30 12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: ya [2014/09/30 12:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: which seems pretty low [2014/09/30 12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: hmm ok [2014/09/30 12:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: 2.5 mbit not an awful lot? [2014/09/30 12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: maybe i should bump that up to like 10 or 20 or something? [2014/09/30 12:31] Justin Clark-Casey: for a scene hosting 400 connections [2014/09/30 12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: can that be changed from the console? [2014/09/30 12:31] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: in realtime? [2014/09/30 12:31] Justin Clark-Casey: leave it as is it for now. My work now is understanding much more about how throttles are working (or not) [2014/09/30 12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: not yet. [2014/09/30 12:32] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: ok ya be good to wire it to do that [2014/09/30 12:32] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: for next week [2014/09/30 12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/09/30 12:32] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: be interesting if that makes a difference [2014/09/30 12:32] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, connecting some bots to here [2014/09/30 12:32] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: kk [2014/09/30 12:33]  Frans Charming: Howdy [2014/09/30 12:33] Justin Clark-Casey: currently at about 270 bots, though I had a lot of connectio nfailure from your system,. neb [2014/09/30 12:33] Justin Clark-Casey: hi frans [2014/09/30 12:33] Rhiannon Chatnoir: hey there [2014/09/30 12:33] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: oh hmm [2014/09/30 12:33] Justin Clark-Casey: also, child agents here are not representative due to the late restart [2014/09/30 12:34] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: from your bots? [2014/09/30 12:34] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/09/30 12:34] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: ok [2014/09/30 12:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: going to rety shortly [2014/09/30 12:34] Nebadon.Izumi @grid.nebadon2025.com:8002: ive not lost any radegast viewers [2014/09/30 12:36] Frans Charming: Seems less laggy then last week. [2014/09/30 12:36] Nebadon Izumi: yes it does [2014/09/30 12:37] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, those adaptive throttles are not working well under these conditions for some reason, I think [2014/09/30 12:37] Nebadon Izumi: atleast both of my avatars are seeing same thing this week [2014/09/30 12:37] Justin Clark-Casey: frame times are more stable [2014/09/30 12:37] Nebadon Izumi: someones voice locked open? [2014/09/30 12:37] Justin Clark-Casey: though still elevated at these levels [2014/09/30 12:38] Nebadon Izumi: whats the count? [2014/09/30 12:38] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: dropped to 230ish [2014/09/30 12:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I just lost a load [2014/09/30 12:39] Justin Clark-Casey: but local client issue - for some reason one of my boxes spazzed out for an age [2014/09/30 12:39] Nebadon Izumi: ouch [2014/09/30 12:39] Nebadon Izumi: which server? [2014/09/30 12:39] Justin Clark-Casey: local [2014/09/30 12:39] Nebadon Izumi: ah [2014/09/30 12:39]  Justin Clark-Casey: man, I should just start running all this stuf fout of ec2, thoug hthat costs [2014/09/30 12:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 12:39]  Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately there is never quite enough hardware [2014/09/30 12:40] Nebadon Izumi: not for me anyway [2014/09/30 12:40] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2014/09/30 12:41] Justin Clark-Casey: having a lot of trouible getting them on from your system today [2014/09/30 12:41] Justin Clark-Casey: even though it's half the load from previous weeks [2014/09/30 12:41] Justin Clark-Casey: you'rre running an opensim server from it? [2014/09/30 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: from that box? [2014/09/30 12:42] Justin Clark-Casey: tower [2014/09/30 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: no that box is sitting idle most of the time [2014/09/30 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: let me check [2014/09/30 12:42] Nebadon Izumi: maybe i didnt kill it [2014/09/30 12:42]  Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: ohman, timeout for not having a registration :P [2014/09/30 12:43] Jeff.Kelley @88.161.20.136:9000: am I alone to feel a huge graphic lag ? [2014/09/30 12:43] Nebadon Izumi: oops you were right [2014/09/30 12:43] Nebadon Izumi: i killed it [2014/09/30 12:43]  Nebadon Izumi: Jeff no [2014/09/30 12:43]  Frans Charming: thinks loaded pretty zippy here, if that is what you eamn [2014/09/30 12:43] Nebadon Izumi: with 100s of avatars it will start to lag a big [2014/09/30 12:44] Justin Clark-Casey: well bum [2014/09/30 12:44] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: what would be cool is an altrnative sit position pull down menu (say, use default of chair, or whatever is in inventory) [2014/09/30 12:44] Justin Clark-Casey: so on my other system, I've just seen some ahci process is going wild and probably causing issues there [2014/09/30 12:45] Justin Clark-Casey: oh linux, how I love thee [2014/09/30 12:45] Nebadon Izumi: indexing maybe? [2014/09/30 12:45] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [2014/09/30 12:45] Justin Clark-Casey: irq/55-ahci1 [2014/09/30 12:45] Justin Clark-Casey: with a real time priority of -51 [2014/09/30 12:46] Nebadon Izumi: my internet is dog slow at the moment [2014/09/30 12:46] Nebadon Izumi: my router must be at its limits [2014/09/30 12:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm having trouble just typing on the console [2014/09/30 12:46] Justin Clark-Casey: on your system [2014/09/30 12:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, might just move all this into the cloud [2014/09/30 12:46] Bwild.Parx @sim.alamitosbeach.net:9900: oh that happen to me to but in my firefox webbrowser [2014/09/30 12:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya a few weeks ago your bots really started clobbering my router [2014/09/30 12:46] Nebadon Izumi: not sure why [2014/09/30 12:46] Justin Clark-Casey: you did change some networking stuff right? [2014/09/30 12:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I know, I keep saying it :0 [2014/09/30 12:47] Nebadon Izumi: just my modem [2014/09/30 12:47] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt it has anything to do with it [2014/09/30 12:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: the modem sits in front of the router? [2014/09/30 12:47] Nebadon Izumi: it does [2014/09/30 12:47] Nebadon Izumi: but even my lan is slow [2014/09/30 12:47] Nebadon Izumi: feels like router is floudering [2014/09/30 12:48] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its just my ISP throtteling me too [2014/09/30 12:48] Nebadon Izumi: who knows [2014/09/30 12:48] Nebadon Izumi: nothing would surprise me at this point [2014/09/30 12:49] Jeff.Kelley @88.161.20.136:9000: how many avatars, now ? [2014/09/30 12:49] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: 256 it dropped again [2014/09/30 12:50] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that's because this ahci keeps going wild and killing one of my systems [2014/09/30 12:50] Justin Clark-Casey: man, what a pain [2014/09/30 12:50] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: testing the testing [2014/09/30 12:50] Justin Clark-Casey: only my lcaol box and the amazon ec2 instance are steady today [2014/09/30 12:50] Justin Clark-Casey considers bringing online another 2 ec2 boxes [2014/09/30 12:53] Nebadon Izumi: how much does it cost for a day of testing like today? [2014/09/30 12:53] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe 5 USD [2014/09/30 12:54] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/09/30 12:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I'll fund that out of what people donate to me [2014/09/30 12:54]  Nebadon Izumi: we probably can foot that bill [2014/09/30 12:54] Nebadon Izumi: i'll check with Fleep [2014/09/30 12:54] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [2014/09/30 12:54]  Nebadon Izumi: thats up to you [2014/09/30 12:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm going to bring two more online now [2014/09/30 12:55] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/09/30 12:56]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 thinks digital ocean is a lot cheaper than ec2 [2014/09/30 12:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I can look into other things as well [2014/09/30 12:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I was hoping to maybe use free tier... but nope :) [2014/09/30 12:58] Nebadon Izumi: the amazon free tier isnt good for much [2014/09/30 12:58]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I have a server I can let you run some bots from if you like [2014/09/30 13:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: well, I don't think this is going to work out now anyway. Now all the bots from the first ec2 instance fell off :) [2014/09/30 13:02] Justin Clark-Casey: damn [2014/09/30 13:03] Nebadon Izumi: hmm wierd [2014/09/30 13:03] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its just too much for one mono instance? [2014/09/30 13:03] Nebadon Izumi: maybe need to split it up into more intsances? [2014/09/30 13:05] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I usually ran one instance per bot back in the day when I had a lot of bots in SL [2014/09/30 13:05]  Nebadon Izumi: ya i can see mono barfing with pcampbot [2014/09/30 13:05] Nebadon Izumi: probably a lot of threads [2014/09/30 13:05] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that's the major problem [2014/09/30 13:06] Justin Clark-Casey: and if you start optimizing that it's both a lot of work and it moves them further from being 'real' clients [2014/09/30 13:06] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: libomv is thread happy just like opensim :) [2014/09/30 13:07]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I have things going into kn2 again now, just bringing up the final instance [2014/09/30 13:08]  Nebadon Izumi: ok cool [2014/09/30 13:08]  Nebadon Izumi: did you shut down bots on my server? [2014/09/30 13:08]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2014/09/30 13:08]  Nebadon Izumi: i can tell [2014/09/30 13:08]  Nebadon Izumi: everything feels smoother for me now [2014/09/30 13:09]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm just going to connect as many as I can now [2014/09/30 13:10]  Nebadon Izumi: k cool [2014/09/30 13:10]  Justin Clark-Casey: currently using general ec2 instances [2014/09/30 13:10]  Nebadon Izumi: feels great at the moment [2014/09/30 13:10]  Nebadon Izumi: probably cause my router isnt being clobbered [2014/09/30 13:10]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/09/30 13:10]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: how big are the instances? and how many bots each? [2014/09/30 13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: they are large instances, each running 100 bots [2014/09/30 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: which appeared to be doable, though I'm not so sure now with that fall off from the first instance [2014/09/30 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: still, we'll see [2014/09/30 13:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: what's "large"? [2014/09/30 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: 4 'virtual' CPUs [2014/09/30 13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: er, cores [2014/09/30 13:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: memory? [2014/09/30 13:11] Nebadon Izumi: large is like middle of the road [2014/09/30 13:11] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: how much ram? [2014/09/30 13:11] Nebadon Izumi: I want to say large is 8gb [2014/09/30 13:12] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: thats a lot of bots for 8gb [2014/09/30 13:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya its 7.5gb [2014/09/30 13:12] Justin Clark-Casey: I don' tthink so really. Chief limit is cpu [2014/09/30 13:12] Justin Clark-Casey: and really only because of the massive number of threads each competing [2014/09/30 13:12] Nebadon Izumi: as long as its not running out of ram and swapping [2014/09/30 13:13] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: *shudders* [2014/09/30 13:13] Nebadon Izumi: its kind of amazing that my router could handle 182 client connections though [2014/09/30 13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: so kn2 and kn4 are full, kn2 at 50 [2014/09/30 13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: ah damn, I still had kn3 limited at 50 [2014/09/30 13:15] Nebadon Izumi: or your bot launcher? [2014/09/30 13:15] Nebadon Izumi: in the estate? [2014/09/30 13:15] Justin Clark-Casey: launcher [2014/09/30 13:15] Nebadon Izumi: ah k bummer [2014/09/30 13:15] Nebadon Izumi: brb afk a sec [2014/09/30 13:16] Nebadon Izumi: back [2014/09/30 13:16] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, thy are not happy here for some reason [2014/09/30 13:17] Nebadon Izumi: my isp probably thinkgs im DDoS UCI [2014/09/30 13:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/09/30 13:17] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it's their new union negotiating tactic [2014/09/30 13:17] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I never really got very good performance out of ec2 but its been a few years since I used it [2014/09/30 13:17]  Nebadon Izumi: anything below a large is crap at Amazon [2014/09/30 13:17] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: seems cpu and networking were not very good [2014/09/30 13:17] Nebadon Izumi: for opensim stuff anyway [2014/09/30 13:17] Nebadon Izumi: they thorttle you a lot [2014/09/30 13:17] Nebadon Izumi: on I/O and bandwidth [2014/09/30 13:18] Nebadon Izumi: the higher end instances are pretty good [2014/09/30 13:18] Justin Clark-Casey: kitely appear to make it work [2014/09/30 13:18] Nebadon Izumi: but it gets expensive [2014/09/30 13:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya you need a model that funds it [2014/09/30 13:18]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: kitely probably has some special deal [2014/09/30 13:18] Justin Clark-Casey: though I guess they are yusing the largest instances [2014/09/30 13:18] Nebadon Izumi: Kitely works cause everyone pays a little bit [2014/09/30 13:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I doubt it but who knows [2014/09/30 13:18] Justin Clark-Casey: too small I would have thought [2014/09/30 13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I suspect even large instances may be marginal for 100 bots, esp on this region where therea re real ppl [2014/09/30 13:19] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I could get opensim to work on amazon but Ive had much better performance on other vps providers [2014/09/30 13:19] Nebadon Izumi: i would suggest running more instances [2014/09/30 13:19] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 20 bots per pcamp instance [2014/09/30 13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: man, I'm not made of money! :) [2014/09/30 13:19] Nebadon Izumi: i bet it would run a lot better [2014/09/30 13:19]  Nebadon Izumi: not per amazon instance [2014/09/30 13:19]  Nebadon Izumi: per mono instance [2014/09/30 13:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know how much or if that would help [2014/09/30 13:20]  Nebadon Izumi: you probably wouldnt loose so many bots at once [2014/09/30 13:20]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: would probably help prevent the mass crashes [2014/09/30 13:20]  Nebadon Izumi: right [2014/09/30 13:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, we're at 371 [2014/09/30 13:20]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [2014/09/30 13:20]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's not crashing the mono, it's a mass bot log off due to timeout [2014/09/30 13:20]  Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt feel any different than 250 did [2014/09/30 13:20]  Nebadon Izumi: which is amazing [2014/09/30 13:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: I may set them moving soon [2014/09/30 13:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: let's see how many I can coax into this region now [2014/09/30 13:21] Nebadon Izumi: kk [2014/09/30 13:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: curiously, I don't seem to get much mvmt delay but there is chat delay for me [2014/09/30 13:21]  Justin Clark-Casey: at times [2014/09/30 13:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya i feeel a little but of both occasionally [2014/09/30 13:21] Nebadon Izumi: but its marginal if felt way worse on good days in SL [2014/09/30 13:21]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/09/30 13:22] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm just going to try rebooting this pCampbot [2014/09/30 13:22] Nebadon Izumi: kk [2014/09/30 13:22]  Justin Clark-Casey: I need better controls still [2014/09/30 13:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, here we go again [2014/09/30 13:23] Justin Clark-Casey: going to try to hit 400 [2014/09/30 13:24] Nebadon Izumi: whats really different this week [2014/09/30 13:24] Nebadon Izumi: both of my avatars are synced now [2014/09/30 13:24] Nebadon Izumi: no more delay on one screen from another [2014/09/30 13:24] Nebadon Izumi: im actually able to control this avatar while looking at other screen [2014/09/30 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: the throttle issues last week appear to be severe [2014/09/30 13:24] Nebadon Izumi: there is maybe a 1 second difference between the two screens [2014/09/30 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: though it's a bit of a mystery as to why they are only so prominent now [2014/09/30 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: chat [2014/09/30 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: delay [2014/09/30 13:24] Justin Clark-Casey: hm [2014/09/30 13:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: I guess ideally I wouldn't be running bots of f this sytem either [2014/09/30 13:25] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: a little bit of movement delay for me too [2014/09/30 13:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol im not even looking at this screen [2014/09/30 13:25] Justin Clark-Casey: there was a big hiccup in ft there [2014/09/30 13:25] Justin Clark-Casey: perhaps a big gc [2014/09/30 13:25]  Justin Clark-Casey: though small in comparison to some preivous weeks [2014/09/30 13:26] Nebadon Izumi: this feels really smooth to me [2014/09/30 13:26]  Nebadon Izumi: iI dont think ive ever felt it this smooth even with 1/2 this many avatars [2014/09/30 13:28] Justin Clark-Casey: man, this is taking too long [2014/09/30 13:28] Nebadon Izumi: what is? [2014/09/30 13:28] Justin Clark-Casey: logging in thes damn bots [2014/09/30 13:28] Nebadon Izumi: oh [2014/09/30 13:28]  Justin Clark-Casey: I forgot to make them more aggressive... :) [2014/09/30 13:29] Nebadon Izumi: pTerminator! [2014/09/30 13:29]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/09/30 13:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: I'm also heading into swap in this system, pCampbot is leaking somewhere [2014/09/30 13:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: which doesn't help [2014/09/30 13:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ya thats not good [2014/09/30 13:30]  Nebadon Izumi: that could explain dropping for sure [2014/09/30 13:30]  Nebadon Izumi: ec2 doenst have fast discs [2014/09/30 13:30]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: could just be mono lagging on gc [2014/09/30 13:30]  Nebadon Izumi: so swaps are horrible [2014/09/30 13:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: mm, I doubt it tbh, I think it only manifests after quite a long time [2014/09/30 13:31]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 found that mono gc can leak a lot when a lot of very small objects are rapidly created and deleted [2014/09/30 13:31]  Nebadon Izumi: nothing worse than leaky garbage trucks! [2014/09/30 13:32] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I can make it leak and crash [2014/09/30 13:32] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, 384 [2014/09/30 13:32] Justin Clark-Casey: some of the other regions are at 101 for some reason [2014/09/30 13:32] Nebadon Izumi: god [2014/09/30 13:33] Nebadon Izumi whispers: I AM GOD!! [2014/09/30 13:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/09/30 13:33] Nebadon Izumi: i can get past limits [2014/09/30 13:33] Justin Clark-Casey: ya, that could be it :) [2014/09/30 13:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, when this region hits 100 that will be something like 402. If we get there [2014/09/30 13:33]  Justin Clark-Casey: I am sitting them. Frame times are persistently elevated though not too badly [2014/09/30 13:33]  Nebadon Izumi: nice [2014/09/30 13:34]  Nebadon Izumi: feels amazingly good [2014/09/30 13:34]  Nebadon Izumi: this is great [2014/09/30 13:34]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah feckkk [2014/09/30 13:34]  Nebadon Izumi: and to think there might still be room for improvement [2014/09/30 13:34]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: maybe next week could set the limit to 150 per region :) [2014/09/30 13:34] Justin Clark-Casey: a bunch just fell off kn2 [2014/09/30 13:34] Nebadon Izumi: aww [2014/09/30 13:34] Justin Clark-Casey: man [2014/09/30 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: maybe you should think about sitting them down [2014/09/30 13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: nab [2014/09/30 13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: how come we were able to sustain 400 8 weeks ago [2014/09/30 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: having them stand is going to generate a lot more updates [2014/09/30 13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, you're right [2014/09/30 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: we were sitting them a while back [2014/09/30 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: maybe thats the difference [2014/09/30 13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: kn2 bots are more aggressive with their connecting [2014/09/30 13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe [2014/09/30 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: also [2014/09/30 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: those regions have adaptive thorttle [2014/09/30 13:35] Nebadon Izumi: only KN1 was restarted [2014/09/30 13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, we're at 100 here [2014/09/30 13:36] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: well bye all :) [2014/09/30 13:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: not sure if that makes a difference to them [2014/09/30 13:36]  Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia! [2014/09/30 13:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [2014/09/30 13:36]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: justin, let me know on irc if you need some server space [2014/09/30 13:36]  Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: bye Dahlia [2014/09/30 13:36]  Nebadon Izumi: even if we dont hold 400 sustained today [2014/09/30 13:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: which shows the weakness of bots, of course in assessing things [2014/09/30 13:36]  Nebadon Izumi: this is great progress [2014/09/30 13:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: thanks, will do [2014/09/30 13:36]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [2014/09/30 13:36]  Nebadon Izumi: and it seems like pcampbot might actually be the problem [2014/09/30 13:36] Nebadon Izumi: not the region [2014/09/30 13:37] Justin Clark-Casey: it's very hard to know if it's the tools or the region sometimes [2014/09/30 13:37] Nebadon Izumi: and if there is even more room for improvement im feeling pretty confifent right now [2014/09/30 13:37] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: I'm getting a little bit of intermittent rubber-banding [2014/09/30 13:37] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's essential to have good tools, so it's unavoidable work [2014/09/30 13:37] Nebadon Izumi: Aine ya its going to rubberband at this level [2014/09/30 13:37] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: yeah [2014/09/30 13:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats never going to not happen with 400 [2014/09/30 13:37] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: it's not horrible by any means though [2014/09/30 13:37] Nebadon Izumi: but performance is pretty awesome [2014/09/30 13:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, we're at 401 [2014/09/30 13:37] Justin Clark-Casey: going to see if we can hold this for a while [2014/09/30 13:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ah you bastard [2014/09/30 13:38] Nebadon Izumi: whazzap? [2014/09/30 13:38] Nebadon Izumi: loose some? [2014/09/30 13:38] Justin Clark-Casey: a bunch chose that moment to give up [2014/09/30 13:38]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Offline [2014/09/30 13:38] Justin Clark-Casey: reconnecting [2014/09/30 13:38] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [2014/09/30 13:38] Justin Clark-Casey: going to have to try bigger instances or more cpu intense ones really [2014/09/30 13:38] Nebadon Izumi: hehe you gotta stop saying it haha [2014/09/30 13:38] Nebadon Izumi: your jynxing yourself [2014/09/30 13:38] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/09/30 13:38] Justin Clark-Casey: ha [2014/09/30 13:39]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Online [2014/09/30 13:39] Nebadon Izumi: seriously though [2014/09/30 13:39] Nebadon Izumi: in the past few months [2014/09/30 13:39] Nebadon Izumi: we have goten more lag at 200 avatars than i feel right now [2014/09/30 13:39] Justin Clark-Casey: we have fixed a lot of issues [2014/09/30 13:39] Nebadon Izumi whispers: ya this is great [2014/09/30 13:40] Justin Clark-Casey: it's just they get obscured by the new stuff that pops up [2014/09/30 13:40]  Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002 is Offline [2014/09/30 13:40] Nebadon Izumi: im super happy [2014/09/30 13:40] Justin Clark-Casey: and now I a bunch ofmy kn2 bots are in landing zones and I can't recall them [2014/09/30 13:40] Justin Clark-Casey: meh [2014/09/30 13:40] Nebadon Izumi: you can teleport from console maybe [2014/09/30 13:40] Nebadon Izumi: kind of pain though [2014/09/30 13:40] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmmmmmmmm [2014/09/30 13:42] Justin Clark-Casey: it would appear that the command ignores checks.... [2014/09/30 13:43] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, it did not like that at all [2014/09/30 13:43] Nebadon Izumi: interesting [2014/09/30 13:43] Nebadon Izumi: my HG avatar is invisible to me now [2014/09/30 13:43] Nebadon Izumi: wonder how that happened [2014/09/30 13:44] Aine.Caoimhe @aine.x64.me:10000: okies....I should be off now....time to feed starving child & dog [2014/09/30 13:44] Nebadon Izumi: kk [2014/09/30 13:45]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye aine, thanks for coming [2014/09/30 13:45] Nebadon Izumi: ya im starving too, i havent eaten anything yet today [2014/09/30 13:45] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I don't think I'm going to learn much more now [2014/09/30 13:45] Justin Clark-Casey: we did touch 400 very briefly at least [2014/09/30 13:45] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 13:45]  Nebadon Izumi: i feel like today was a big success [2014/09/30 13:45] Justin Clark-Casey: but clearly need to look at all this throttling stuff [2014/09/30 13:45] Nebadon Izumi: even though wasnt all we hoped for [2014/09/30 13:45] Justin Clark-Casey: and then maybe next time try with some bigger ec2 instances [2014/09/30 13:45] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2014/09/30 13:46] Seth.Nygard @snpcgrid.strangled.net:9000: I'm off to eat as well. Thank you for all your hard work in OpenSim [2014/09/30 13:46] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks Seth [2014/09/30 13:46] Nebadon Izumi: ok let me know if you need some more money for that, we might be able to squeeze a few bucks out of this years budget [2014/09/30 13:46] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, let's talk about this in the meeting [2014/09/30 13:46] Nebadon Izumi: ill check with fleep to be sure [2014/09/30 13:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya good idea [2014/09/30 13:46] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, gonna take these bots off now [2014/09/30 13:46] Justin Clark-Casey: actually [2014/09/30 13:46] Justin Clark-Casey: let me set them moving [2014/09/30 13:46] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool, thanks man [2014/09/30 13:46] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya [2014/09/30 13:47]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, these ec2 instances are not s=snjoying this [2014/09/30 13:47] Nebadon Izumi: hah ya i bet [2014/09/30 13:47] Justin Clark-Casey: i wanna see what moving bots does to things [2014/09/30 13:48] Justin Clark-Casey: physics not happy [2014/09/30 13:48] Nebadon Izumi: I might ask Doug if he has any uber boxes sitting around we can borrow [2014/09/30 13:48] Nebadon Izumi: he has an absurd amount of hardware [2014/09/30 13:48] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a lot about networking and stuff [2014/09/30 13:48] Justin Clark-Casey: they also appear to have paranoid firewalls.... [2014/09/30 13:48] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya [2014/09/30 13:48]  Nebadon Izumi: still i might ask him if he has anything unhindered [2014/09/30 13:49] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah,. not hapy [2014/09/30 13:49] Nebadon Izumi: he has machines with like 128gb ram [2014/09/30 13:49] Nebadon Izumi: and crazy cpus [2014/09/30 13:49] Justin Clark-Casey: gonna set everyone moving for grins [2014/09/30 13:49] Nebadon Izumi: nice [2014/09/30 13:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya lets see if you can crash it [2014/09/30 13:49]  Nebadon Izumi: hehe [2014/09/30 13:49] Nebadon Izumi: thats one thing thats great about bullet [2014/09/30 13:49] Nebadon Izumi: its very hard to crash it [2014/09/30 13:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think these ec2 boxes are more likely to buckle [2014/09/30 13:50] Rhiannon Chatnoir: naked avatars taking over the stage :P [2014/09/30 13:50] Nebadon Izumi: lol ya [2014/09/30 13:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: one day I'll fix their appearance :0 [2014/09/30 13:50] Justin Clark-Casey: physics is unhappy, though still capable of movement [2014/09/30 13:50] Justin Clark-Casey: just like a jerky ghost [2014/09/30 13:51] Justin Clark-Casey: chat oka though [2014/09/30 13:51] Justin Clark-Casey: which indicates it is physics and not udp packets [2014/09/30 13:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 13:51]  Nebadon Izumi: very impressive [2014/09/30 13:51] Justin Clark-Casey: and these btos do not move like people [2014/09/30 13:52] Justin Clark-Casey: so this may well be more harsh than 'reals' [2014/09/30 13:52] Rhiannon Chatnoir: they need just blue or green skins :P [2014/09/30 13:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 13:52]  Rhiannon Chatnoir: add to all the conference colors [2014/09/30 13:52] Nebadon Izumi: pcampbot was always good at stressing physics [2014/09/30 13:52] Nebadon Izumi: probably its #1 thing its good for [2014/09/30 13:52] Nebadon Izumi: lol [2014/09/30 13:52] Justin Clark-Casey: test [2014/09/30 13:52] Nebadon Izumi: Hippo Lumpas [2014/09/30 13:52] Justin Clark-Casey: look at them move on the mini :) [2014/09/30 13:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: and boom [2014/09/30 13:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: huh [2014/09/30 13:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: kn2 bots had their event queues closed but not udp yet [2014/09/30 13:53]  Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 13:54]  Rhiannon Chatnoir: am trying to take some framing photos for camera shots.. and will be funny showing these pics with naked bots running up [2014/09/30 13:54]  Justin Clark-Casey: ah, there we go [2014/09/30 13:54]  Nebadon Izumi: :D [2014/09/30 13:54]  Nebadon Izumi: justin i have noticed after all of our tests [2014/09/30 13:54]  Nebadon Izumi: that there are always a few lingering bots visible [2014/09/30 13:54]  Nebadon Izumi: even after they are all closed out [2014/09/30 13:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: probably means the kill avatar message never got to your connection [2014/09/30 13:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: if they don't show up on the server at all [2014/09/30 13:55] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya [2014/09/30 13:55]  Nebadon Izumi: probably so [2014/09/30 13:55]  Nebadon Izumi: big mass exodus [2014/09/30 13:55] Nebadon Izumi: its bound to happen [2014/09/30 13:55] Rhiannon Chatnoir: ok I have to log off for now [2014/09/30 13:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it produces a noticeable peaks in graphs too [2014/09/30 13:55] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, thanks rhiannon [2014/09/30 13:55] Nebadon Izumi: ok joyce, thanks for coming [2014/09/30 13:55] Rhiannon Chatnoir: be on the AvaCon grid in a bit later [2014/09/30 13:55] Nebadon Izumi: thanks everyone for coming who is still here [2014/09/30 13:55] Nebadon Izumi whispers: same time next week :) [2014/09/30 13:55]  Nebadon Izumi: kk [2014/09/30 13:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, taking all bots off [2014/09/30 13:56]  Rhiannon Chatnoir: grabbed some shots though [2014/09/30 13:56]  Nebadon Izumi: k me too [2014/09/30 13:56]  Rhiannon Chatnoir: take care for now ! [2014/09/30 13:56]  Rhiannon Chatnoir is Offline [2014/09/30 13:58]  Nebadon Izumi: recovers very nicely [2014/09/30 13:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, stopping ec2 [2014/09/30 13:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes [2014/09/30 13:58]  Nebadon Izumi: great progress :) [2014/09/30 13:58] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, need to work on those throttles, esp as adaptive is the default [2014/09/30 13:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya [2014/09/30 13:58]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think they get knocked down extremely hard when packets go missing [2014/09/30 13:59] Nebadon Izumi: should i disable adapatvie on all 4 for now? [2014/09/30 13:59] Nebadon Izumi: or grid wide even? [2014/09/30 13:59] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm [2014/09/30 13:59] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, might as well, see if it shows up any problems [2014/09/30 13:59] Nebadon Izumi: later* [2014/09/30 13:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya better to start testing sooner than alter [2014/09/30 13:59] Nebadon Izumi: ok [2014/09/30 14:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: you may want to check you have bos limits on all regions to stop abuse [2014/09/30 14:00] Justin Clark-Casey: though here we may want to consider raising them, though don't worry about it just yet [2014/09/30 14:00] Justin Clark-Casey: today it didn't seem to be an issue [2014/09/30 14:00] Nebadon Izumi: bos limits? [2014/09/30 14:00] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, bps [2014/09/30 14:00] Nebadon Izumi: oh [2014/09/30 14:00]  Nebadon Izumi: ya the client throttle should probably stay the same [2014/09/30 14:00] Nebadon Izumi: maybe slight bump but not much, probably good where it is [2014/09/30 14:00]  Justin Clark-Casey nods [2014/09/30 14:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm gong to get something to eat myself before the takeaway shuts. Glad we tried that adaptive throttle thing to day since it does appear to improve the problems [2014/09/30 14:01] Justin Clark-Casey: disabling it [2014/09/30 14:02]  Justin Clark-Casey: ok, see you later!