Chat log from the meeting on 2014-02-12

[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:07] Mircea Kitsune: hi [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:07] Mata Hari: hi Justin [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, justin [11:08] Robert Adams: Hi justin [11:08] dadix forever: hi jcc [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: sorry to ask again robert. the terrain edit code is not in master? [11:08] Mircea Kitsune: Waking up earlier tomorrow and still busy tonight, so I probably won't stay the entire meeting [11:09] Robert Adams: no. not yet... still debugging (or un-breaking) mega-regions [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: ok [11:10] Nebadon Izumi is online. [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: i made the base terrain loayout with external editor. but the parts now i need todo inworld. am just waiting a bit longer [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey is slowly recovering his e-mail position after his holiday [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: thats the biggest nighmare from vacation. the 500 mails [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Only 500 after a week? That's not too bad. [11:11] dan banner: hi everyone [11:11] dadix forever: walking animation with left, right ,stand position made with an animator and compiled works in opensim ? [11:12] dadix forever: I have a script like that from sl [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: ANDREW, EEP. [11:12] Mata Hari waves to Dan [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: animation overrides should work, if that's what you're referring to [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, I get quite a bit of mail every day. [11:12] Fearghus McMahon: hi everybody [11:12] dadix forever: thanks jcc [11:12] Nebadon Izumi is offline. [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: need to say the mailinglist is very silent last time. is that correct ? [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: looks pretty normal to me [11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Question? [11:13] Robert Adams: 2 [11:13] Mircea Kitsune: Oh. I had a question regarding var regions for some time... [11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: With the spatially populated nature of virtual worlds, what would be involved/feasible in suspending a simulator/region? This would release processor power and resources to areas currently in use. [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: pls, go ahead [11:13] Nebadon Izumi is online. [11:14] Cuteulala Artis is online. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone [11:14] dan banner: hey neb [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [11:14] Sarah Kline: hi [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, nebadon [11:14] Fearghus McMahon: heya neb [11:14] Mircea Kitsune: What if I build a sim at a certain size (eg: default 256 x 256) but then decide I want to expand it? Can I resize a var region without losing what's on it? Including existing prims and terrain, which would stay in place as an empty space is generated against the (sizing up). In case of sizing a region down, deleting terrain and prims in the removed area [11:14] Mircea Kitsune: Is that possible, or will it be? [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, recovered from your trip? [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: I expect you would need to tell if any user was there [11:14] Mircea Kitsune: Hi [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: and be okay suspending running region scripts [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: hey neb [11:15] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: thanks Justin [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey shouts: fred: In fact, Eva of VIBE just wrote something about this - http://was.fm/opensim:suspend_and_resume [11:16] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I think they are controlling the virtualised hosts [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: but suspend and resume sounds slow [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: i know LL is doing it [11:16] Robert Adams: you can do that Mircea [11:16] Robert Adams: make an OAR of your original region then load that oar into the larger region [11:17] Mircea Kitsune: Ah. I was hoping that wouldn't be needed [11:17] Mircea Kitsune: And that you could do it like cropping or expanding an image in Photoshop / GIMP [11:17] Robert Adams: you can also place your old region into the middle of the new region using the new --displacement parameter to 'load oar' [11:17] Robert Adams: you can even rotate it using the --rotation parameter [11:18] Mircea Kitsune: Can it be resized without having to re-import a region though? [11:18] Robert Adams: if you take a 256x256 sized region and just resize it up (add the size parameters to its region.ini), the region will be extended by a default terrain height [11:18] Arielle Popstar: and then there is scene comands too [11:18] Arielle Popstar: scale scene [11:18] Robert Adams: you will get flat terrain for the new terrain [11:19] Mircea Kitsune: Nice. So you can size aa region up without losing the terrain and rims you have [11:19] Robert Adams: yes [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: nice [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: hi arielle [11:19] Arielle Popstar: Hi Rira [11:19] Robert Adams: sizing up into unused area works [11:20] Mircea Kitsune: yeah [11:20] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev         966ab21: 2014-01-24 00:17:39 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:20] Mircea Kitsune: Around which corner does it resize? Can that be chosen? [11:20] Arielle Popstar: whats up with this ruth clothing upon login [11:20] Mircea Kitsune: Could be upper-left, upper-right, lower-left, lower-right, or center [11:20] dan banner: its a bug ari [11:21] Robert Adams: it just extends the ezxisting region [11:21] Arielle Popstar: ok [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: aah so you see that to arielle. i have that on my sim. but thats 0.7.6.1 and i think it only happens that soem clothing get ruth after HG and relog [11:21] Robert Adams: if you want to move the terrain and prims into the new region, you have to do t he save/load OAR thing [11:22] Mata Hari: if anyone wants about 20 Ruth shapes, I think I probably have that many sitting in my trash can by now [11:22] Fearghus McMahon: Robert, the rotate part of load oar.....rotates prims...and the actual land itself? [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: robert, or by drag and drop. lol [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: no just select and drag [11:22] Arielle Popstar: viewer or opensim bug? [11:22] Robert Adams: Fearghus, it rotates teh terrain also [11:22] Fearghus McMahon: cool [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: hi fearghus [11:23] Fearghus McMahon: Heya Richardus ;) [11:23] Robert Adams: I've have a half finished 'load oar' wiki page to describe what can be done... loke you can use --displacement to move prims up (for skyboxes) while loading the t errain on the ground (multiple steps) [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: not worried about the wiki as long the save and load oar works on var [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: those are long switch names :) --displace not suitable? [11:25] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:25] Robert Adams: I liked --offsettobeaddedtoeachprim :) [11:25] Fearghus McMahon: no camelcasing? [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: ooh --offset sounds nice too, even shorter :) [11:26] dan banner: lol [11:26] Mata Hari: --move [11:26] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Does anyone know the reason why 'avination code drop was requested' and are those reasons being tested? [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: you can always do --otbatep :) [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: --relocate, --transpose ;) [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: where doe the text in the quotes come from? [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: FRed,, thing got frozen because the avination code incompleet. hope i say it right [11:27] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: mantis [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: i have read soem special avination mantis stick it togheter to [11:28] Arielle Popstar: why not the same commands that Dahlia used for her scene commandds? [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: which mantis? [11:28] Robert Adams: There were a bunch of changes to appearance and baking and related... that's a way of collecting problems it may have caused [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:28] Arielle Popstar: Hi =Dahlia [11:29] Arielle Popstar: speak of the devil :) [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey blames Dahlia [11:29] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: 6988 Master report for issues caused by Avinaion code dropMaster report for issues caused by Avinaion code drop [11:29] Dahlia Trimble: what am I being blamed for now? [11:29] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: woops [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: yup thats the collection one [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: yes, melanie created that after I complained to her about fixing the bugs she introduced. I do not know if these are now fixed or not [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia. your not blamed for anything i think [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I have been away the past 6 days [11:30] Dahlia Trimble blames justin [11:30] dan banner: nobodys dont anything about those afaik [11:30] Arielle Popstar: translate, rotate commands [11:30] Mata Hari: nothing new in the last week that I've seen [11:30] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Just trying to find pointers on what to test? [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: I should have some time later if you guys want to let me know what bugs I can talk with Melanie [11:31] Robert Adams: that's the stuff to test [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: she responds well to my requests [11:31] Juicy Babii: you must ask nice :) [11:31] Mata Hari: well, perhaps ask which (if any) issues she thinks have now been fixed so those could be tested [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: well I certainly ask often lol [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: you are in a priviledged minority then [11:32] Juicy Babii: (laughs) [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: heh yes, I am one of the few people who have a really good relationship here with Melanie [11:32] Arielle Popstar: knock on wood [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: so if there is something we need from Melanie please see me first [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: save us all some grief [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: dont exploit it too much Nebadon it might evaporate :P [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: that really shouldn't be the way though [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: actually its fixing the fall out of big arguments that make me want to vaporize [11:34] Mircea Kitsune: And, I remembered another question about something else [11:36] Arielle Popstar: its what happens when the tail wags the dog [11:36] Mircea Kitsune: One thing which somewhat always bothered me (might not bother more experienced server admins in general) is that IIRC, several OpenSim components are still segmented as different services. For example, I remember that for groups you needed to setup and install a different application. To get voice support, you manually need to setup a Vivox server of sorts. There are more examples I believe. [11:36] Mircea Kitsune: Are there any plans to eventually have everything Opensim needs inside Opensim? [11:36] Mircea Kitsune: A small builtin webserver for web profiles for instance could be nice too [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: why you would do that ? besides security risks are higher [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: mircea: there is an in-built groups module now but not enabled by default [11:36] Mircea Kitsune: ok. What about builtin voice system? [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: aha. think i did not read right [11:37] Arielle Popstar: itss a platform, not a ready made solution? [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: that's a very complicated component, using c++, etc. [11:37] Robert Adams: queue the discussion on core vs distributions [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: voice is best to have it as module. whenm mumble is betetr [11:37] Mircea Kitsune: Yeah, module. Was thinking part of opensim though [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: in the build in group stuff works fine [11:38] Mircea Kitsune: Didn't know groups got buiultin, that is good news [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: There are already lots of good web servers available. I don't see there would be much benefit to burden OS with also being a web server. [11:38] Juicy Babii: group chat is NOT borked??!! :) [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey would be surprised if group chat is not borked [11:38] Arielle Popstar: be nice to have a streamgrid setup you could add custom modules to by checkbox choices and then built and downloaded [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: no, not a webserver in opensim. bad [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: opensim actually already has a built in web-server because of all the http calls already made between viewer-simulator and simulator-services, simulator-simulator [11:39] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: @Mercia, and Profiles [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, does built-in groups include all the functionality of the add on flotsam groups or are some features still msising? [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, can someone tell me how you make your maptiles visible vor Hypergrid users ? [11:39] Mircea Kitsune: Speaking of groups: Is the group system still sim-dependent, or did it become a grid feature? There are still sims (like mine) on which groups don't work yet. For grid mode, I imagine groups should be a grid-only thing, and not even a simulator setting [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: well, there are severael problems. Firstly, increasing the maintenance complexity of a single blob - which starts to have components which other people are not interested in [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, i dontr know. for me buildin groups seems to support more and betetr then the flotsam i ever used [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: actually, that's probably the chief issue when you start to get into voice server and frontend areas [11:40] Mircea Kitsune: Profiles... IIRC those are grid-wide and not a sim thing [11:40] Mircea Kitsune: Hopefully [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't checked built-in groups. I thought I heard that there are some thing missing. [11:40] Arielle Popstar: unless you run a standalone [11:41] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ~Mircea, I believe Profiles are grid and standalone wiseI believe [11:42] Mircea Kitsune: Fred: A few weeks ago I was on my sim here on OSGrid, but groups did not exist. I assume I forgot to setup some URL though [11:42] AlexRime SiLiSiLi: Hello world. Any news about osSetPrimitiveParams? It is need to move sitting avatar. It is issue of all furniture in OpenSim [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: anybody idea how i can show maptiles on my grid voor hypergirid visitrors ? its now not visible. [11:42] Mata Hari: was about to ak the same Alex [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: or its still not implemented ? [11:43] Mata Hari: it seems unlikely Melanie will have time/inclination to do that any time soon [11:43] Cuteulala Artis is offline. [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Standard SetPrimitiveParams doesn' support moving avatars? [11:43] Cuteulala Artis is online. [11:43] Mircea Kitsune: Do I need to look at a setting in gridcommon.ini or opensim.ini to get the grid-wide groups working on my sims too? [11:43] Mata Hari: no [11:43] Mata Hari: been a bug for ~!8 months [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: She said in some mantis that her code would address this but yes, have not seen it yet [11:43] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: @Mircea, I think osgrid uses the earlier flotsam groups [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: we do [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: \Andrew. it support moveing avatars for long time [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: once the existing bugs have been fixed I may well turn my hand to it, but the current probelms are not going to be trivial to address, I expect [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: the normal parametersfats lsl [11:44] Mircea Kitsune: I see [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: so what is the advantage of an os based version? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: by existing bugs, I just mean the new stuff that has appeared, not long standing stuff [11:44] Arielle Popstar: documentaion in opensim.ini for groups is confusing [11:44] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Integeral opensim groups was introduced by diva 2013 [11:44] Mircea Kitsune: Justin: Still, why do I not see or can access anything group related from my sims? Did I miss a setting? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: afair, internal group setup doesn't follow the way other modules work [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a separate section of settings for V2 groups IIRC [11:45] dadix forever: What is the current LSL Function Status? percentage of implementation [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: mircea: not sure. My guess would be you have missed a setting. afaik, osgrid uses flotsam groups, not builtin [11:45] Mircea Kitsune: ok [11:45] Mata Hari: @dadix....very high [11:45] Mata Hari: and most work [11:45] AlexRime SiLiSiLi: Standard SetPrimitiveParams doesn' support moving avatars? It support. But it means poseball in every chair and table [11:46] Mata Hari: unfortunately just one of the most important ones doesn't but it will eventually get fixed [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Mircea there is a special groups setup for osgrid, it;s in the example settings files on the forum [11:46] Mata Hari: no Alex, LSL will move an avi too in SL [11:46] Mircea Kitsune: Other than that, only thing I'd like to see to get rid of the segmentation and complication, would be a builtin module (that can of course be off by default) to get sim voice chat. And I guess one for web profiles... but well that one could be too much since a web server is quite common to set up [11:46] Mata Hari: it's how ALL the MLP items are made the last 3+ years [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a pain, I know. If no one else does I will get to it eventually, like sitting on child prims [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: yes Mata [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: but that does take a long time with everything else to deal with [11:47] Arielle Popstar: need more devs [11:47] Mircea Kitsune: I never understood how to setup a separate vivox server for my sims, and probably don't think I can now. Would be fun if we could just start opensim and voice works too like all else :) So just, maybe the idea can be noted down somewhere [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: this is an issue. There are many patches but I'm not getting time to deal with them [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: vivox is easy [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, need a smaller code base so it isn't intimidating for new developers. ;) [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: request vivox login. add the parameters vivox send to you in opensim.ini and your done [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: and then somebody does not play well with others in mantis [11:48] Arielle Popstar: :) [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: I doubt vivox would be an internal module because it relies on a proprietary external service [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: yeah, this is also the issue with higher complexity and bundling. Though one can also argue it would attract more itnerested developers [11:48] Cuteulala Artis is offline. [11:48] Mircea Kitsune: Yeah... not a builtin version of vivox itself. But any voice system that the viewer can work with [11:48] Cuteulala Artis is online. [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: then one would have to loosen the criteria for getting direct commit access, etc. [11:48] Mircea Kitsune: One written from scratch even... of course if anyone ever does one [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: or segment it in some way [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: freeswitch is a bit harder [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: and quality is/ hmm poor [11:48] Mircea Kitsune: I assume Opensim just needs to receive the audio stream from a viewer, and send it to other viewers [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: I never had a lot of luck getting FS working. I did it once ages ago. [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: mumble is the most realistic non-Vivox ooption, I think [11:49] Juicy Babii managed to get freeswitch working once ... ONCE. would not likely repeat it without trying to copy configuration + environment [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: personally segmentation doesnt bother me but there could be easier ways to administrate it [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: like? [11:49] Mircea Kitsune: Well it would prolly have to be C# / .net to compile with Opensim [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: i got freeswitch working a few times in the past. never used it anymore. but always a few puzzle pieces [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: like perhaps aptitude in debian [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: If mumble becomes more popular it might start getting included in the common viewers. [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: It seems mono.addins can work somewhat like that in dragging in modules [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of recipes to make fs work don't work. [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: but never fully explored what bluewall did [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: as soon mumble is supported in firestorm and singulairty and there'sa module i want to try it [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: justin, but I mean the user interface also [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I think first it needs to be updated for current op[ensim, which is what that bounty was about [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: but the problem with the existing module is that it was licensed as gpl - which makes it pretty much impossible to include in opensim core [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: where you can easily search for something and install it and it does all the work of dependencies and setup [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't recall hearing about any bounty re: FS and OS [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: mumble, not freeswitch [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya been a lot of talk about muble lately [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: there is a kickstarter project or something like that [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, ah, ok. Still, don't know anything about bounties on them. [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: http://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-users/2014-January/013088.html [11:52] Mircea Kitsune: Would it be hard to write a simple voice system from scratch inside Opensim? [11:52] Cuteulala Artis: OhHhHh.... Hello Sweety! all [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: ?\B8.\95* LoL *\95.\B8? [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: pretty hard i think. its complex [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: mircea: super hard [11:52] Mircea Kitsune: awh [11:52] Mata Hari: the other kinda of major issue I wanted to mention is the "tp/login fail if you're wearing too much stuff" (mesh in particular)...is it a huge re-work to not have it time out if 100% of the asset data hasn't yet arrived within the 20 (or 30?) second timeout window? [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: is this a new issue? [11:52] Cuteulala Artis: unties dans shoes for not tp Me? on time lol [11:52] AlexRime SiLiSiLi: About Bullet, We have boat script and try open yacht club. But boat sinked in every border of regions. Any idea that to do? [11:53] Cuteulala Artis: and then i tie both shoes together [11:53] Arielle Popstar: Hi Cute [11:53] Cuteulala Artis: OhHhHh.... Hello Sweety! [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: hi cute [11:53] Mata Hari: I pinned it down as the cause about 3-4 months ago....don't know if that makes it "new" or not [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: ALex. more foam :) [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: unfortunately, that might technically be new [11:53] Arielle Popstar: flotation devices?> [11:54] Mata Hari: I have a work-around so it's not a huge deal at the moment (though inconvenient) [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: I expect that could be improved though [11:54] Arielle Popstar: any truth to the rumour that Megas have issues with the Master for the past couple weeks? [11:54] Juicy Babii: I am interested in the topic of server-side baking: if OS does not support it, does that break viewers that do? [11:54] Mata Hari: but as more poeple start to use mesh it's going to become a wide-spread issue [11:54] AlexRime SiLiSiLi: Richardus Raymaker: thanks I will try [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: juicy: no, I believe they fall back to client side [11:54] Kayaker Magic: I have a PFD (life jacket) in SL that drags an avatar to the surface, it might work under bulletsim now. [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: juicy: actually, melanie did put in code last week to do server side baking but I have not examined it yet or heard anybody trying it (though I have been out of the picture) [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: cool kaya [11:55] Mata Hari: I've been too terrified to do a new build since her last code drop [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: the other advantage of not chucking everything in core is it allows other people to run projects as they wish [11:55] dan banner: i think those bakes are still derived from the viewer and stored on the server [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: Mata, could it be some slow link between where the assets are stored and where they are being requested? like if they are on a home server? [11:55] Juicy Babii: I'm having problems with shape data where the number of parameters does not match the advertised number, throwing an error in decoding wearable assets [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: rather than having to liaise with the current opensim core group [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: ah yes, good point [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, my mistake - yeah, that's not srever side baking [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: part of the issue with asset timeouts is we dont control the infrastructure of all the grids [11:56] Mata Hari: Dahlia: yes, very likely; but also depends on total volume/size of assets [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: juicy:: using what opensim release? [11:56] Mata Hari: if you are wearing 15+ mesh items, each with 3 textures.....that's a lot of data [11:56] Juicy Babii: the newest I could find [11:57] Mata Hari: *3 textures per face [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: juicy: opensmi 0.7.6.1 ? [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: especially if you use hugh textures [11:57] Arielle Popstar: but see that when viewer machine is sitting beside the asset machine [11:57] Juicy Babii: osgrid-opensim-0.8.0.... [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: It isn't easy to properly import mesh objects so they don't cause issues in a region. [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: juicy: the rest of the numbers are important [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: issues? [11:58] Mata Hari: well, 1 20k vert mesh with 8 faces 8 advanced mats adds up pretty quickly even if you're tiling 256x256 textures [11:58] Juicy Babii: I'll contact you offline about this, cause it's probably something you're familiar with :) [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: i say this because there was an issue with visual params being increased that make older opensim revisions throw exceptions on teleports [11:58] dan banner: 966ab21 is latest justin [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: i think andrew is pointing to yellow squares [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I often see lots of yellow text in regions due to bad mesh. [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: juicy: unfortunately, I have a mountain of e-mail to deal with so can't deal with that stuff personally [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: better to post to the mailing list [11:58] dan banner: r/24256 [11:58] Juicy Babii: ok, then - thanks! [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yellow text in the region console. Haven't seen anything involving yellow squares. [11:59] Mata Hari: anyway, the issue isn't that it takes a long time to get that asset data....the problem is during login or tp if it hasn't all arrived rapidly enough the tp fails and all those attachments become invisible until you relog [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: yellow pyramids? :) [11:59] Robert Adams: alexRime: I've looked at the boat sinking problem a little. It actually looks like somehow the intitial vehicle parameters are not getting set [11:59] Mata Hari: so for HG tp, etc it can be a big deal [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: ok [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, never seen that. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yellow pyramids can happen for various reasons [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: justin, yes i see that sometimes when someone telkeports to my region with mesh clothing [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: cache clear fixes it 99% of the time [11:59] Robert Adams: I will spend some more time looking at it this weekend [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: those are the inworld placeholders you see when mesh hasn't yet loaded or can't be displayed ?) [12:00] Sarah Kline: There are limits to this platform you cant wear mesh sizes like that and expect a smooth ride [12:00] dan banner: they show as a script error for a bad script [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: maybe such extensive meshes are a little more complex than they need to be for avatar attachments? [12:00] Mata Hari: I notice it a lot when you upload a mesh that's still in quad and rely on the viewer to convert it to tri [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: hjee sarah [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, ok. I haven't experienced that with bad mesh objects. The reports are about triangles that are collapsed to a single point (or something). I'd have to track down a copy of the messages I've seen. [12:00] Mata Hari: if you convert to tri first, then upload, is almost never borks [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly there should be a limit to allowed mesh attachment size in a simulator [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, thats not mesh physics error ? [12:01] Mircea Kitsune: I believe I will be leaving now, waking up earlier tomorrow and less time for tonight [12:01] Mata Hari: or just allow the tp to complete without all assets yet arrived [12:01] Mircea Kitsune: Good luck, bye [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off and attend to other things too [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: mata: yeah, should be made asynchronous if at all possible [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:02] Mata Hari: that would solve the problem completely [12:02] Fearghus McMahon: tc justin [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey waves [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: The bad mesh messages I see are like this -> [BULLETSIM SHAPE MESH] All mesh triangles degenerate. [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: Mata, then people start to complain about your cloud