Chat log from the meeting on 2012-08-28

[11:00] Master Dubrovna: Back to work...bye everyone [11:00] Frank Northmead: bye [11:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya Master [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: bye master [11:00] Sarah Kline: bye all [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, I should get to my DB issues shortly [11:00] Frank Northmead: bye Sarah [11:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Later, Sarah :) [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: bye sarah [11:00] Frank Northmead: MyTurn, see you all later. [11:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya Frank [11:00] Marcus Llewellyn: I think we can definitely put a fork in it. :) I'm heading to LBSA> [11:00] Richardus Raymaker: bye marcus [11:00] Taarna Welles: I go too. And I shall try to open a mantis about sounds and NPC's. [11:00] RegionReady v2: Region Ready Processed on Lbsa Plaza @ 2012-08-25T12:42:24.3265150Z UTC [11:00] RegionReady v2: Region Ready Processed on Lbsa Plaza @ 2012-08-25T12:52:50.2453170Z UTC [11:00] RegionReady v2: Region Ready Processed on Lbsa Plaza @ 2012-08-25T13:04:31.1614960Z UTC [11:00] RegionReady v2: Region Ready Processed on Lbsa Plaza @ 2012-08-25T13:14:53.9031360Z UTC [11:00] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         dd0556a: 2012-08-19 22:05:38 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:00] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         dd0556a: 2012-08-19 22:05:38 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:00] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         dd0556a: 2012-08-19 22:05:38 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:00] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         dd0556a: 2012-08-19 22:05:38 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:00] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         dd0556a: 2012-08-19 22:05:38 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:00] Julie Smith: lovely...naked AND ruthed [11:00] Julie Smith: ONE MIN [11:00] Animah Capalini: hi [11:00] CheysuliLir Restless: Hi [11:00] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         1507483: 2012-08-20 15:57:28 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:00] Pris Aardvark: hi [11:00] Pris Aardvark: has OS been down til now, do you know? [11:00] CheysuliLir Restless: Hi [11:00] CheysuliLir Restless: Yeah, been trying to get in [11:00] Pris Aardvark: ok, good to know it wasn't just me^^ [11:00] CheysuliLir Restless: Even the website was down for awhile [11:00] Pris Aardvark: oh really [11:00] Pris Aardvark: yes, my region shows as not there at all [11:00] RegionReady v2: Region Ready Processed on Lbsa Plaza @ 2012-08-28T00:07:12.3131810Z UTC [11:00] Taarna Welles: There is a new Firestorm release Rich [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: i know [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: not saying my problem is fixt [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: brb [11:02] Sarah Kline: hi all [11:03] VivK Lowlag: hi Sarah [11:03] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         1507483: 2012-08-20 15:57:28 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:03] Master Dubrovna: Hi Sarah [11:03] Taarna Welles: Heya :) [11:03] BlueWall Slade: Hello [11:03] Artemis Tesla: Hello BlueWall :) [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: well the firestorm team fixt nothing ! [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: crap viewer [11:05] Taarna Welles: O-o [11:05] BlueWall Slade: lol [11:05] Sarah Kline: Richard you will never find a viewer that suits you [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:06] BlueWall Slade: I downloaded the latest one last week and couldn't connect with the -loginuri [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: Its not me, its a bug in the viewer with editor [11:06] BlueWall Slade: so, which one did you use? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: BlueWall i am pretty sure Firestorm for SL will not be adding that back [11:06] BlueWall Slade: yeah [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: and zen have still the 404 error. so not usabel [11:06] BlueWall Slade: I built Teapot :) [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: they said pretty much there will be a short window when firestorm completely stops supporting OpenSim probably [11:06] VivK Lowlag: that will be fixed in the next release [11:06] BlueWall Slade: ohh? [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: wich next one. today is a new zen [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: we'll probably have a purely opensim version end of October [11:07] BlueWall Slade: I thought they were going to make an OpenSim viewer? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya once they full integrate the Havok stuff [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:07] BlueWall Slade: okk, OK [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: but that wont happen until after they break compatability [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be paralelle development [11:07] Sarah Kline: Yes its not the one yet [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: until after its broken [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:07] Sarah Kline: but they did put a help thing on page for grid manager [11:08] Hiro Protagonist: howdy Justin [11:08] Taarna Welles: Hi Justin [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: and in firestorm you still cant edit any script or notecard without getting a bigger mess [11:08] BlueWall Slade: I am looking at some of the things we must put up with that need to change to kick start us [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya it probably wont' completely break for a few more versions [11:08] Sarah Kline: HI JUustin [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: at some point though the grid manager will be removed from the SL version [11:08] BlueWall Slade: Hey Justin [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: which is likely to happen before the OpenSim version is available [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: Zen btw much better here then firestorm now [11:08] Sarah Kline: oo [11:08] Sarah Kline: well we still have viewers to log in with in meantime [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:08] BlueWall Slade: a lot of the things in the viewer assumes that you are ion a closed garden, and we should change those to operate in an open environment [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: it will just mean you can't update for a few versions [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its not a huge deal [11:10] BlueWall Slade: Hey Dahlia [11:10] Dahlia Trimble: hi :) [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: And singularity 1.7.x have some broken udp fallback. so you dont see prims on caps disabled regions. and sad to say some seems to spread a modified opensim version. with caps disabled [11:12] Dahlia Trimble: OMG a jumping cricket! [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ? [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hi artimes [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: that's a small person [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: oh lol [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: well not see a cricket [11:12] Dahlia Trimble: oh [11:12] Taarna Welles: :) [11:13] Taarna Welles: Well done Artemis :) [11:13] Artemis Tesla: ? [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: you fit good with the tree's [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I sincerely hope this isn't a random bug :) [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: though it would be a pretty cool one [11:13] Sarah Kline: lol [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: I have seen even smaller ones in SL [11:13] Sarah Kline: this is the solution to region size [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: yeah. you need to watch where you walk there [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: like 1/4 the size of Artemis [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: Yes sarah [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: ha [11:14] Sarah Kline: ^^ [11:14] BlueWall Slade: lol [11:14] BlueWall Slade: how do you do that? [11:14] Artemis Tesla: mesh [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: folded skeleton? [11:15] Sarah Kline: with Avatstar? [11:15] Artemis Tesla: just scale the skeleton [11:15] BlueWall Slade: that's funny [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: only camming with that avatar size is so terrible difficult :) [11:15] Dahlia Trimble: oh didnt know it would scale that small [11:15] Robert Adams: the avatar capsule seems to be original size, though [11:15] Arielle Popstar: torso is elongated in my viewer. Supposed to be that way? [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: Is there a way to see easy how much memory every script use ? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: there is not, an I suspect such a thing is not possible with xengine [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I think there is a LSL function that is suppose to return some kind of stat re: memory [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, in opensim it returns a dummy value [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: ok. something is eating memory at my sandbox at some point its increased to 2GB starting around 1GB [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: lol Andrew. not easy with a few 100 scripts [11:19] Script saved [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, yeah. "every script". Not so easy. [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: the lsl command i tried did not work btw. it keept showing 16KB. i have seen some other command to i have not tried [11:19] BlueWall Slade: profile it [11:20] Script saved [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: that's hardly easy [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: whats that profiler thingie? dottrace? [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: thats one [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: I think I have that somewhere [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.jetbrains.com/profiler/ [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: thats not free ? [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i think it is [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: I got a license for some other project [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: it say 10day trail [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya hrmm [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: used to be free i thought [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: oh there's a free open source one [11:23] Nebadon IzumiNebadon Izumi shakes fist! Damn capitalists! [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: well blowing some steam today not bad idea. :) [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: oh well you would go insane after 10 days anyway [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: trying to profile opensim [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: well there's a free one. but you dont need that to get insane [11:24] Arielle Popstar: any update on the status of HG2? [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, it looks like I have introduced an inventory bug into master that I need to fix later today [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: aha, good one. intressted to [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: affects robust server/standalone [11:25] BlueWall Slade: when the doctors, lawyers and grocery stores start giving services for free, then everyone else can, lol [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: no idea, waiting for diva on that one [11:26] BlueWall Slade: Justin - what does the bug do? [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: it stops you creating ordinary folders under your "my inventory" folder [11:26] BlueWall Slade: ohh [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: immediatley under - elsehwhere is probably fine [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I introduced it on friday [11:27] BlueWall Slade: I saw a hangup in the inventory downloading that prevents rezzing from inventory [11:27] Arielle Popstar: if Diva stop contributing, would hypergrid functionality go bye bye? [11:27] BlueWall Slade: Arielle - no [11:27] Arielle Popstar: ok, good to know\ [11:27] BlueWall Slade: that is soemthign that is important to me [11:28] Arielle Popstar: nods [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: HG is important for many [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: You guys were talking about the latest firestorm release earlier? http://phoenixviewer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/firestorm-update-42129803-pathfinding.html [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Did we just crash or was it just me? [11:29] BlueWall Slade: just you [11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Just your own personal crash :) [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: Yes justin, but it still have the scale UI bug.. :\ [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Probably my common momentary loss of Internet connection. :-P [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: scale ui bug? [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: yes. most dont see it. just use the scale UI slider in preferences to get bigger font. then the editor get nuts with the cursor position [11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: It can also cause menus to misalign, at least when you go smaller. [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: that's a shame [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: so try to edit msg into message is really criminal [11:31] Script saved [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: if you like tou know, say it there's a frie report [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: fire [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: has anybody noticed more grey avatars? [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon are you useing the latest zn now ? [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: yes I am Richardus [11:33] VivK Lowlag: Just Key Gruin most of the time [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: i have the 404 bug still.. [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: colors look fine here justin [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:33] Arielle Popstar: only dahlia's top [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: only think that keeps me from useing it [11:33] Script saved [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya I get the 404 thing too [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: not a huge deal [11:34] Arielle Popstar: few more clouds again in lbsa for me the last few days and tp's slow [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: just click it a couple times [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I guess Zena forgot about fixing it [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I know danbanner talked to Zena about it [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: well, i try to lower clicks. more clicks is less otehr fun [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya hopefully gets fixed soon [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: dan was able to fix it by editing xml or something [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i forget the details of what he said now [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: if i remember he changed something from osgrid.org to login.osgrid.org [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: or something [11:35] VivK Lowlag: yes [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember exactly [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: something about add login [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: tried to remake the whole grid item dont help [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: k ya I'll try to follow up with dan when he is around [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: see whats up [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: well he have official bug report now to [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya dan may have already made one [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: not even sure [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i know they spoke about it though [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: well i searched on 404 nopthing found [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I assumed it was through the ticket tracker [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: he explained it yesterday. forgot to save the link. also because it would be fixt in next version [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: or it where few days ago.. [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: well with opensim i dont see much problems for now [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: hey Marcus, heh nice Avatar [11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Hiya Neb, thanks. :) [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: hmm did lani let some alian escape ? hi marcus [11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Hiya Rich [11:40] Sarah Kline: Get that alien some pants [11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: Made this for Halloween. ;) [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: looks good, not sure what it must be [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: Just a made up creature [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics for today? [11:41] Marcus Llewellyn: That has nothing to do with OpenSim dev. ;) [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: nothing here [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: Neb, do you know if that person from yesterday got the sim running on new version of opensim. the one from irc ? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: not sure [11:43] UUID Speaker: Ish Tomsen: a53846b9-cbda-4026-b1db-81e83f4667c3 [11:44] Arielle Popstar: darn, pulling a blank on things to bring up ;) [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: hurrah! [11:44] VivK Lowlag: what of the things the griefer did the other day? [11:44] Artemis Tesla: LinksitTargets are asking for perms if the script is in a different prim instead of autogranting them.. [11:44] BlueWall Slade: hey - the discussion on IRC about terraign ending [11:45] BlueWall Slade: editing [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: which Griefer VivK? [11:45] BlueWall Slade: a general question to everyone - when editing the terraigh, does it lag the sim if you use sweeping, long movements like painting? [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: Griever ?? [11:46] VivK Lowlag: EL something [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: Bluewall the only time i have ever noticed that myself [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: is when you are editing terrain in a sim your not directly in [11:46] Arielle Popstar: usually just doesnt have much affect with that sort of movement [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: like on multi-region simulators [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: what IRC chat about terrian dont see anything [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or mega regions [11:46] Arielle Popstar: at least for me [11:46] VivK Lowlag: the one Key Banned that would channel flood IM and firend requests and overloading name cards [11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: When I edit terrain, I get the nost lag if ai make lots of small edits. If I hold brush (kepe the left mouse button down) and sweep it, I get less lag. [11:46] Robert Adams: If you mean by 'lag' the effect that you edit the terrain but the view of the changes is very slow, yes [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: Neighborn sims are 80% of time slow to edit. other thing with terrain edit i see its getting a bit slower when you edit longer terrain. buffer full i guess [11:47] Taarna Welles: @Vivk El Jilipollas 213.142.180.63 hit LBSA Plaza [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: we banned them [11:47] VivK Lowlag: that was him [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: I HATE editing terrain [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya i very rarely use the in world terrain editing tools [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: I usually make it in photoshop and upload it [11:48] Arielle Popstar: the viewer used makes a difference i find [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: Oh no. its pretty easy to do thing. only the iron part is hard [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: they are pretty horrible in my opinion [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i use L3DT or something [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: then just do minor touchups with the inworld tools [11:48] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn would kill to be able to create terrain in Blender and upload it as an OBJ or similar. [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: thats difficult work DSahlia. in photoshop. inworld is more easy and faster [11:48] BlueWall Slade: melanie had some comments that we shoudl discard most of the events [11:48] Robert Adams: in my case, I traced it to the output terrain update queue getting backed up... like the rate is set way too low [11:48] BlueWall Slade: like take 1 of 10 or soemthing like that [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: L3DT is a bit off in height the last time i tried it [11:49] BlueWall Slade: it works Rich [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: I dont know of amy mode in blender that would work well with a heightfield [11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: Getting the scale correct with L3DT can be a pain, agreed. [11:49] BlueWall Slade: I made one a couple of weeks ago and it was prettty good [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: excapt maybe baking to a displacement map [11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: You can import grayscale heightmaps as noise... but wind up guestimating a whole lot. :( [11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: And exporting is a complete crapshoot. [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: But.. how can you do something outside the world if you can bring the prims into l3dt so you get the terrain right ? :O [11:49] BlueWall Slade: but, the in-world tools should work good too... [11:50] BlueWall Slade: the scripted tools work instantly [11:50] BlueWall Slade: but, they are taking one shot [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: the brushes in the in-world tools just dont work for me [11:50] BlueWall Slade: the viewer would be bombarding the sim with packets [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: The script tools cannot edit tgerrain in agle sofar i know. unles i hav eold tool [11:51] BlueWall Slade: agle? [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, viewer network bandwidth to high ? [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: angle [11:51] BlueWall Slade: ohh [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: too high? [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: stupid keyboard and user :O [11:51] BlueWall Slade: well, neither does the viewer tool? [11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: The smaller brushes have never worked for me. Only when I have the szize medium or larger to they work for me in-world. [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: well in the viewer i can smooth a terrain thats say in 45 degree terrain [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya I have noticed that as well [11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: Oh wait... it's not size, it's strength I think. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: certain tools work ok but not all [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: smoothing is the only tool that I can work with [11:52] VivK Lowlag: the settings seem to run amock or not at all [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: You need to play with both marcus. inworld really works very nice [11:52] BlueWall Slade: they work if you just tap them [11:52] BlueWall Slade: 'if you stay on them they lag [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Hmm, singularity etc i have not seen any problem. imprudence not sure [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think its more about the simulator side [11:53] BlueWall Slade: I thjink the conversation last night came to the conclusion that we are filling the buffer [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: all the viewers work the same in terms of the terrain tools [11:53] Arielle Popstar: imp was no good for terrain edits [11:53] Artemis Tesla: the viewer tools work better if you set terrain detail to high. less bouncing and such [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: yup [11:53] BlueWall Slade: we need throttles on the sim side, just as we do the network side [11:53] Arielle Popstar: i didnt find that Neb [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: Artimes, ??? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: well I do not recall any of the TPV's making any changes to terrain tools [11:54] Sarah Kline: Well the way the ground keeps moving and buckling yes [11:54] BlueWall Slade: it's OpenSim [11:54] Sarah Kline: if you overrun it [11:54] BlueWall Slade: we allow it to happen [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I have to cut out a bit early today. Have to go out shortly. [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: graphics -> terrain is max here [11:54] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves [11:54] Arielle Popstar: astra was quite a bit better then imp [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: see you Andrew [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: bye [11:54] BlueWall Slade: \o Andrew [11:54] Arielle Popstar: even when it was derived from imp [11:54] Sarah Kline: bye Andrew [11:54] Artemis Tesla: Shrug just stuff i have noticed [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its more likley because of the LL base code [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: than anything the TPVs did [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: you need to give opensim while editting sometimes a break. so used to that. but would be ice if its not needed [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: you would probably have similar issues using the LL viewer based on the same code that Imprudence was based on itself [11:55] Marcus Llewellyn: I doubt even LL has touched terrain stuff (server or client) in a very long time. [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: But in SL its just smooth and fast [11:55] BlueWall Slade: it's sim side [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya the terrain stuff is all on the simulators [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: the viewers really do nothing but pass packets back and forth [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: LL needs to rethink terrain, it's horrible [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Also a mega region outside root can get slow with edit [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: we just dont handle it correctly [11:56] BlueWall Slade: it is the same issue we used to have on the maps [11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Dahlia [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: you cant even paint pathways [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya what is especially horrible about the LL terrain [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: is the texturing [11:56] BlueWall Slade: you could zoom out and fill the buffer for weeks [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: Dahlia, thats a pain, pathways [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: that just totally ruins any expectations of making it look even semi decent [11:56] Marcus Llewellyn: I've been tempted to replace terrain with mesh, but I'm not sure how well that would work out with the physics engine. [11:56] Sarah Kline: its a pretty low resolution mesh [11:56] Sarah Kline: but even then it take time to draw [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: Oh yes textureing. wish the accepted at least 1024x1024 maps [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: terrain is difficult though [11:57] BlueWall Slade: it would be cool to produce the region in L3DT and send textures and all over [11:57] Arielle Popstar: will opensim be likely to diverge from s/l compatbility in light of the changes they are making? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: very detailed terrain mesh can be very heavy [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: Marcus, problem with mesh mountains. if you fall to fast you end beow it. happens in sl. so it cant be better here [11:57] BlueWall Slade: we should [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: even making Mesh terrains [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: its very very difficult [11:57] Marcus Llewellyn: Forget l3Dt. Terrain editing in Blender, please! Hehe :) [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: well you could just make a collada terrain prim [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: Forgot beldner, do it inworld [11:58] BlueWall Slade: L3DT is specialized for that [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: even with L3DT [11:58] BlueWall Slade: but, if Blender works, yeah [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its very difficult to make super detailed terrain [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: the mesh files are gigantic [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: like 100's of meg [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: otehrwise use L3DT, ofcorse i really dont know how to get the terrain right without the prims on the terrain [11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: I have about a third of a region that's almost completely mesh as the moment. One large mesh... a mountain that contains a cave. It works quite well. [11:58] Dahlia Trimble: do it in pieces [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: by the time you get the terrain mesh to be an acceptable size to upload with LL viewer [11:58] BlueWall Slade: what I'm saying - what if the viewer would allow a texture for the full terrain [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: the quality is actually lower than what LL offers with in world tools [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:59] BlueWall Slade: 1:1 pam [11:59] BlueWall Slade: map [11:59] BlueWall Slade: no-tiles [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: eeuw bluewall. thats a 4096x4096 texture or so. [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: thats the only real benefit [11:59] Robert Adams: mesh terrain doesn't need to be convex.... caves and tunnels :) [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: is the texturing [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can make it 1 big solid texture map [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: whcih is nice [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you can bake in roads and features [11:59] Dahlia Trimble whispers: caves work in mesh terrain in opensim :) [11:59] Sarah Kline: When we are all on fibre optic maybe that will be possible [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: surprisingly [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: still to this day [12:00] BlueWall Slade: since SL cut the umbilical cord, thenm we can at least start to think [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: fibre optic. hmm 2020 maby [12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: They sure do. I have a huge cave to prove it. [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: the only way i can make super high detailed quality terrains [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: is with sculpty [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: and its a royal pain in the ass [12:00] BlueWall Slade: but, all the thinking in the world doesn't do much good w/o developers willing to turn it into code [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: not to mentoin when you wnat to move a road.. [12:01] BlueWall Slade: and, with all the people making money off this, I would think we would see more contribution [12:01] BlueWall Slade: :) [12:01] Arielle Popstar: need in world op [ensim coding classes :) [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: For now it only cost money. lol [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats just one of those more specialzed areas really [12:01] Taarna Welles: peeps I got to go. CU next week. [12:01] Robert Adams: need to start a new TPV effort that is made for OpenSim [12:02] BlueWall Slade: bye Taarna [12:02] Arielle Popstar: tc Dalia [12:02] BlueWall Slade: well, Teapot is a pretty good start [12:02] Marcus Llewellyn: +1 Robert [12:02] Arielle Popstar: oh sorry Taarna [12:02] Sarah Kline: Firestorm fork and Armin too [12:02] BlueWall Slade: I think we willneed to start with what we have because of the content [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ya that would be nice for sure, still though, getting into that stuff is still some pretty specialized stuff [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: most of the TPV devs are just doing UI enhancments and such [12:03] Artemis Tesla: Oh along the lines of need people to work on things.. any chance we could get a monthly or so class together to for all us non devs. so we can help with that? Stuff like a best practices faq for code and such ? [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: very few are actually that knowledgable about the OpenGL and Graphics engine side of things [12:03] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         1507483: 2012-08-20 15:57:28 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [12:03] Sarah Kline: True Neb [12:03] BlueWall Slade: I saw something about LL putting more lo [12:03] BlueWall Slade: lighting effects in the viewer [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are a few doing it [12:03] BlueWall Slade: we need those [12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Artemis... Opensim is just HUGE... with tons of niggling little details. A class isn't gonna cut it, unless you're in for a couple years. ;) [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: well soem C# classes are welcome. i know soem things. but a few things i dont get [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: not saying there are none, just saying there are very few [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the best one was Kirsten [12:04] BlueWall Slade: my region module is a good place to start [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: unfortuantly he is gone now [12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Bluewall, you mean the new materials? [12:04] Artemis Tesla: I meant like small thing [12:04] Arielle Popstar: even some classes on how opensim is put together [12:04] BlueWall Slade: it shows how to build a module and it logs waypoints when it starts [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the best people for that now I would say are on Exodus team [12:04] BlueWall Slade: most of OpenSim is written on that format [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: they are the ones who worked out the Materials [12:05] Dahlia Trimble: gotta go, bye all :) [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia [12:05] BlueWall Slade: Exodus - that has a nice ring to it [12:05] Robert Adams: bye Dahlia [12:05] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia [12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: There's a repo on github for the material code. [12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya Dahlia. :) [12:05] Sarah Kline: normal maps and spec [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya unfortuantely they have literally zero interest in OpenSim [12:05] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [12:05] BlueWall Slade: heh, where are they exedus-ing from then? [12:05] BlueWall Slade: RL? [12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-development-materials [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Katherine Berry is on the exodus team now [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: she was the one who wrote Ajaxlife [12:06] BlueWall Slade: I was in SL last week and opened the map - mostly yellow, abandoned land [12:06] Sarah Kline: does opensim have serverside support for materials? [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: when she was like 15 [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: no Sarah [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: not yet [12:06] Sarah Kline: ok [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to pop off too [12:07] BlueWall Slade: take care Justin [12:07] Sarah Kline: Bye Justin [12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Chances are, materials will be served up just like any other textures. Everything I've read indicates there won't be any super-special packaging involved. [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks later [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Justin [12:07] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Later Justin :) [12:07] Arielle Popstar: waves [12:07] Sarah Kline: its doubtful theyd get used here lol [12:07] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd use them in a flash! [12:08] Robert Adams: there are a bunch of new prim parameters that OpenSim needs to add... pathfinding added meshing and collision flags [12:08] Sarah Kline: they make for effient modelling [12:08] Marcus Llewellyn: The avatar I'm wearing now would benefit from normal maps alone. [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: do you think its even worth adding those Pathfinding stuff Robert? [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: since the only viewers that will actually support it wont be able to connect to OpenSim? [12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: You can connect a pathfinding viewer to OpenSim now. [12:09] Marcus Llewellyn: It's just NavMesh visualization we don't get. [12:09] Richardus Raymaker: Maby the pathfinding stuff can used in some way to extend NPC's ? [12:09] Arielle Popstar: no doubt there will be efforts to get those viewers connecting here at some point [12:09] BlueWall Slade: if there is an opensource plugin for the TPV, then it would make sense [12:09] Robert Adams: I think the pathfinding stuff is a kludge, but some of the parameters would be useful [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya but there will be no way to actually create the pathfinding stuff [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: right? [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: we wont actually be able to use it here will we? [12:10] BlueWall Slade: Dahlia has a lot of it working server side [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes but not with the LL viewers [12:10] Robert Adams: without a viewer so extended... [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: she wrote her own software [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt use the viewer at all [12:10] BlueWall Slade: yes [12:10] Artemis Tesla: Cool Vl has Pathfinding [12:10] Robert Adams: Need an open source replacement for the physics code [12:10] Marcus Llewellyn: Personally, I'd rather pathfinding was all server side with scripting hooks. [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: my understanding is, any LL TPV that accepts their Havok licensing, that viewer can no longer be allowed to connect to OpenSim [12:11] Robert Adams: There has been some work along that line.... even stubs would help [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there will be no loginuri switch or grid manager [12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: You don't need to accept the Havok licence to have pathfinding in the viewer. [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: to create the paths you do [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise it only can view [12:11] Sarah Kline: No I have now in this version of FS [12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: You only need the license if you have NavMesh preview as well. [12:11] Sarah Kline: but greyed out [12:11] Marcus Llewellyn: No... you can set everything you need to do pathfinding. You just can't *see* it visually. [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ah hrmm [12:12] BlueWall Slade: how do you login new version of FS? [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: you have to enable the grid manager [12:12] BlueWall Slade: ohh, I need to look into that [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its some where in preferences I think [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i still dont use Firestorm [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: heh [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: just going off what i have heard [12:12] Richardus Raymaker: its under advanced if i remeber [12:13] Arielle Popstar: hmm wont instal while i have thissingularity running [12:13] Sarah Kline: control shift G [12:13] BlueWall Slade: I logged into SL with it [12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: I'd prefer to be using Teapot instead of FS. But I can't until Teapot gets that damn IM bug fixed. [12:13] BlueWall Slade: IM bug? [12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: yeah... in the IM floater, the chat input textbox sometimes gets grayed out. [12:13] Richardus Raymaker: well the 2 minutes i used zen today its much betetr in framerate [12:13] Artemis Tesla: reloging isnt that much of a pain [12:13] Marcus Llewellyn: I've tried and tried to repro it. I can'tf igure our what causes it. It seeems completely random. [12:14] Richardus Raymaker: ohh. now i get it why i could not send any IM [12:15] BlueWall Slade: I can send IM in mine [12:15] Sarah Kline: I think we should be encouraging to all TPV's and not just put eggs in one basket...just saying [12:16] Arielle Popstar: good point Sarah [12:17] Richardus Raymaker: problem with TPV viewers. there more bugs and request of things then the can do. and then instead the fix bugs the choice for new functions