Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-08

[2011/11/04 15:10] Second Life: Script saved [2011/11/04 15:48] Second Life: Script saved [2011/11/04 15:48] Primitive: Script running [2011/11/04 15:49] Second Life: Script saved [2011/11/04 15:49] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 15:50] Second Life: Script saved [2011/11/04 15:50] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:03] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:04] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:20] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:26] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:30] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:46] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:47] Second Life: Script saved [2011/11/04 16:47] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 16:50] Second Life: Script saved [2011/11/04 16:50] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 17:22] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 17:22] Primitive: bar [2011/11/04 17:22] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 17:23] Primitive: bar [2011/11/04 17:23] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 18:03] Primitive: foo [2011/11/04 18:04] Second Life: Script saved [2011/11/04 18:04] Primitive: bar [2011/11/04 18:04] Primitive: foo [2011/11/07 08:58] Second Life: Hyperlink could not be established. [2011/11/07 08:58] Second Life: Hyperlink could not be established. [2011/11/07 08:58] Second Life: Teleport completed from t1 (231,130,32) [2011/11/07 10:15] Second Life: Hyperlink could not be established. [2011/11/07 10:15] Second Life: Hyperlink could not be established. [2011/11/07 10:15] Second Life: Teleport completed from t3 (130,127,26) [2011/11/07 10:42] Second Life: Hyperlink could not be established. [2011/11/07 10:42] Second Life: Hyperlink could not be established. [2011/11/07 10:42] Second Life: Teleport completed from t1 (127,130,24) [2011/11/07 11:36] Second Life: Teleport completed from t3 (128,128,28) [2011/11/07 12:34] Second Life: Hyperlink could not be established. [2011/11/07 12:34] Second Life: Teleport completed from t2 (44,114,35) [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes it works fine. other time you try it fails [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: wrong sit sarah :) [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] dan banner: i clicked it [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] Primitive: Stop [11:01] BlueWall Slade: hi jcc [11:01] dan banner: make it say the name that clicked it [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: its working ok here [11:01] dan banner: lol [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus. bluewall, folks [11:01] saera pfeffer: Hiyas JCC [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: maby you can try it later in sandbox. [11:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:02] dan banner: hi justin [11:02] Sarah Kline: dont like the twitcy leg one lol [11:02] Sarah Kline: hi justin [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: it works sometimes fine. i see it go wrong most the first time i use it [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: If you want to see the list of functions new SL functions, take a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/lsleditor/files/ [11:02] Richardus Raymaker: move 1 sit then sarah [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: Justin did you see that Dave has been setting up Jenkins? [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yep, I saw your link [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: looks good [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like the name of a butler. [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: still busy with learning old commands lol [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: I totally failed to get Panda to use 2.4.3 [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: Panda ? [11:04] dan banner: reminds me of WoW [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: there is some seriously voodoo magic going on [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: either that or the code is hidden some where [11:04] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev         559e6e5: 2011-11-06 20:43:49 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: because what i traced down [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think it was that bad, nebadon. I just wasn't sure about the Environment check for mono. [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: no matter what i did changing the init.rb [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: it still saw mono 2.4.2.3 [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: setting it in .bashrc didnt help [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: that code is just horrible [11:04] saera pfeffer: leroy... [11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Panda == DevCommitsSeppuku [11:04] dan banner: yup [11:05] BlueWall Slade: there's several new ones dealing with media [11:05] saera pfeffer: lol [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: yes [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, what version of mono is the default on that machine? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: also it appeared to be configured for SVN [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: That's an easy thing to fix. [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: wich linux version ? [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i could not on earth figure out how the hell it was possibly working with git [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: it doesn't surprise me - the install would have been done a very long time ago [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: no Andrew ours was using git [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: but all tue configs said it was using svn [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: this is what I mean about panda - it's not something worth spending the time to fix [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so i was missing something i dunno [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: its so not worth spending another second on [11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Plus no norris. [11:06] BlueWall Slade: jenkins is well supported [11:06] BlueWall Slade: yeah [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: soon we'll be Jenkinsified [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: whats panda doing at all ? [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: k. I don't know what external configs it was using. init.rb would have needed two lines change for git use (url and rtype line). [11:06] BlueWall Slade: they have a girls module too [11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: At the moment, it's pissing the devs off. It's the automated build thingy, Rich. [11:06] Richardus Raymaker: aha sort of git clone [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: panda is/was the continuous integration systems [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: I think someone fed our panda after midnight and it turned into a gremlin [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: it builds and automatically runs the regression tests after a checkin [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: dont throw water on it neb [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hmm whats worser, a gremlin or a alien ? [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, water first then feeding make a bad pair. [11:07] BlueWall Slade: need to setup a monument to it on Bade Plazza [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:07] Marcus Llewellyn: I"m not sure a dead panda sends the right message. ;) [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: giant bronze statue of a panda in a guilotine [11:08] BlueWall Slade: could just remove a couple of limbs [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember a pair of large panda statues in SL near where I first arrived in the grid. [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya they used to have that Zoo [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Think it was pair (mother and cub). [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats where the whole hippo thing started [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: This wasn't naer a zoo. [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ah [11:09] BlueWall Slade: hehe, it's still a zoo [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I just had odd and bad behavior in my sim. I haven't yet checked my log or console, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen it... [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon, do you have already a vertical alevator ? [11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I tried to copy a script from the child prim of a linkset into an inventory folder. It just didn't happen. [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I have been working on an Elevator [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: Same here marcus, you nee to unlink it [11:11] BlueWall Slade: did it come from an HG avatar? [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i have a non physical one that works fairly well [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: it even opens and closes the doors [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: its a pain in the ass to setup at the moment though [11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: The script/linkset? No... it's my creation, here on OSGrid. [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i was hoping to make a physical version [11:11] BlueWall Slade: ok [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: No Blue. just build complete here. i never can drag script oe so out of child [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: but i just have not had the tiem [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: time* [11:11] Richardus Raymaker: Yes nebadon. i now udnerstand how to do that type to. [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya not being able to take stuff out of child prims has always been a problem in opensim [11:11] BlueWall Slade: I passed an object to my OSG avatar yesterday and the contents were only available here - on this region [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: htat usually works? [11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: I'll restart and try again after the meeting. If I can repro it, and maybe get a log snippet, I'll mantis it. [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its never worked in OpenSim [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: restarting will not help [11:12] BlueWall Slade: I had to come here and unpack the contents, then go to a sandbox and repack it. [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: huh [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you need to unlink it [11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: You can't copy a script from a child prim in a linkset to inventory? [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: that's poor [11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: Wow. [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: correct [11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: So it's known behavior then, though. [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you should be able to [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: but it does not work here yet [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:13] BlueWall Slade: ok, what I saw was unrelated. [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i'll log in to Avination later [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and see if you can there [11:13] BlueWall Slade: I'll work through that later and doc it. [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: then see if i can get melanie to port it over if it does [11:13] BlueWall Slade: hehe [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i have no idea though if it does there [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: i always want to see if she has fixed sitting on non scripted prim at all [11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome, cuz that's a pretty bad chunk of missing functionality. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it does suck [11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: I mean, I just created new scripts and copy pasted, but that's a PITA. [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ive run into it dozens of times myself [11:14] dan banner: it certainly explains some things ive run across [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya or unlink just that one prim [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: last days same here marcus. always need to unlink and relink [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: thats not always possibility though if prim order is a concern [11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Now that I know that it works in an unlinked set, I can try that until it gets fixed, ta. [11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: *ya [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: i preffer to create a complete frsh link so i have only 1 root for sure [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so do you know what the deal is with the linking linksets change by Melanie? [11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: I always worked on sets unlinked until I'm done. Problem is this set was done, but getting upgrades. [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the problem was before when you linked multiple linksets [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: or added a single prim to an exisiting linkset [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: the order changed [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: her code fixes that [11:15] dan banner: it works correctly now [11:16] BlueWall Slade: we need the avatar to link to objects properly [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: have you tested that since her changes? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: cool [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, prim link order is properly maintained and done in a way that makes sense so its easy to know how the order will wind up when linking. [11:16] BlueWall Slade: avatars have the same root class as objects, so it should be do-able. [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: unless link order is not stable you need to send linkmessgaes to all prims ? thats what i do. not sure if send to one works [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: is that why mouselook is wrong when an avatar sits on a child prim? [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't think so, but maybe there's is some relation [11:17] BlueWall Slade: it might have something to do with it [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya hmm, be good to get that fixed [11:17] VivK Lowlag: please do [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: for now we have been keeping seats unlinked [11:17] BlueWall Slade: in SL you can move the avatar like a prim in a linkset [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: to avoid peoples view being down in the floor [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ah [11:18] dan banner: usually its looking up skirts lol [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:18] BlueWall Slade: I think they are added to the end of the set [11:18] dan banner: i thought it was a feature [11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Mouslook when sitting has a viewer JIRA over at LL... you can't look up and down as freely as when you're standing. Is that what you're refering to? [11:18] BlueWall Slade: I was looking into that a few weeks ago. [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya no this bug is soley a OpenSim Issue Marcus [11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: kk [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: the same behavior is not observed in SL [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: with this when you have say a couch [11:19] BlueWall Slade: the camera goes to the root prim [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and all the sit prims are child prims [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Ohhhhh... yes. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: when you sit and go into mouse look [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: your camera view goes to the root prim [11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: Sorry... I know what you mean now. [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and not the prim your on [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: i have a problem that i need to rotate the sit prim so the avatr sit wrong. but the rest of the verhicle is right [11:19] BlueWall Slade: it should go to the avatar [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: but i would think it should go to the avartar itself [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: if i place avatar right the verhicle rotates. lol [11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: Something similar happens wven when you're not in mouselook. [11:20] BlueWall Slade: I think the way we sit the avatar and associate it is related to that [11:20] BlueWall Slade: that is when I started making that camera tool, lol [11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: If you use an object you're sitting on as a pivot when moving your camera, it doesn't revolve around your center, it revolves around the object's center. [11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: I don't beleive it works like that in SL. [11:21] dan banner: right marcus i always wonder why rotation seemed offset [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like a camera position bug [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: sits always give me a light headace with camera [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: not only here [11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: I've never complained about it... it always felt low priority. But would be nice to have it work as expected. [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok Avination does have it so you can drag inventory out of child prims [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: let me get on Melanie about that [11:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Awesome. Crack the whip on MelT :) [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: she has sitting on prim working too [11:22] dan banner: ooh [11:22] BlueWall Slade: physics sessions doing border crossings??? [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: ?!?!? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: that i dont know and if she does [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ??????????!?! [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: i wouldnt hold your breath on getting that one [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:23] BlueWall Slade: hehe [11:23] dan banner: heh [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: how with veriables vs megas and opensim ? [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: that one is kind of tough [11:23] BlueWall Slade: that is why they made fatpacks [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: it seems btw, what i have seen at oyther place. that mega's cant have different parcel sounds on other regons [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I have a feeling this viewer is going to crash sooner or later [11:25] BlueWall Slade: which one are you using justin? [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: everything is getting slower and slower [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Which viewer, Justin? [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: Thats easy to say justin. a viewer crahs always sooner or later :O [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: 3.0.3. I have whisper installed, it might be todo with that [11:25] BlueWall Slade: [ 91%] Building CXX object newview/CMakeFiles/secondlife-bin.dir/lltoolplacer.o [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. not looked if there's a newer 3.2 [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone tried 3.2.x? [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer takes asbolutely ages to build [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: i have it installed, but it crash so easy with map teleports [11:26] BlueWall Slade: I'm updating llqtwebkit in this one [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I have never managed to build viewer source [11:26] BlueWall Slade: LL had issues with it, so we'll see how it goes [11:26] BlueWall Slade: I'm trying to get the system certs to work in the webkit and curl [11:27] BlueWall Slade: then, I want to add some handling for login response items to make all the web interfaces work for us [11:27] BlueWall Slade: hey Dahla [11:27] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: web interfaces? [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:27] BlueWall Slade: yes [11:27] BlueWall Slade: profiles, search, market, dashboard... [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, it's not just a case of changing a hardcoded url somewhere? [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: or urls? [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: do I have hair? [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: yes [11:28] Marcus Llewellyn: You're very hairy, Daglia. :) [11:28] BlueWall Slade: I think they don't keep, mostly [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:28] BlueWall Slade: and it's a PITA for users too [11:29] BlueWall Slade: so, if we can sed them in the login response with all the other things, we can open up V3 for us [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: that would be very cool [11:29] BlueWall Slade: they're only taking about 60 items [11:29] BlueWall Slade: another 8-10 would be ok [11:30] BlueWall Slade: since they do megaprims now, it would be a pretty good viewer for us, especially with the mesh support [11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: Is it just me or does the INvetory windows in 3.* never seem to stop working at something? Like it's always waiting for more to download or something. [11:30] BlueWall Slade: lol, mine was allhosed yesterday [11:30] BlueWall Slade: I had to resort to wearing the barrel again [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: megaprims but does the viewer not limit it hard to 64 meters ? or its server side ? [11:31] BlueWall Slade: viewer [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: would you be planning to send a patch to sl? Do you think they would take one? [11:31] BlueWall Slade: but, that's pretty sensible for most of the time [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: Marcus I thought that happened a lot with V2 [11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: I think it's both these days, Rich. [11:31] BlueWall Slade: well, they put in the map url patch [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: we need to implement the newer inventory cap [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: that might possibly help [11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: Yuppers, Dahlia... I saw it in V2 and 3 [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: interesting [11:32] BlueWall Slade: and, hopefully, I'm solving some things in the Linux build. So, maybe it will help things along. [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: I thought we did implement the new cap [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ? [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes, but then they did a second one [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: which I think is the one now used [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:32] BlueWall Slade: Justin, have you been in the viwer code? [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise it falls back to udp I think [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya i can say invnetory loading with v3 on OpenSim is wretched [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: only in a very brief way [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: it never finishes loading [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i can never get much past like 15000ish items [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and that takes a lot of work [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: i thin 3.2 did betetr work then singularity 1.6 [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: normally it will stop for the 1st time around 2500 [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: I have UDP inventory and texture download forced [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: then i got to coax it several times [11:33] Dahlia Trimble: http is too buggy even in SL [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I do find http texture download on 3.x is every good [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: odd - I find it very good with opensim [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: here on Wright Plaza [11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: That sounds familiar, Neb. I only have 6500, but it stalles at around 2K or so, and then leaves me with the precarious impression that it never thinks its done. [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it loads 10 times faster for me with HTTP [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i remember that Diva [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: dunno about opensim but inventory was terrible in SL with http [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: she also had to force it to disable [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: inventory maybe [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: a linden told me to disable it [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: or it would never load [11:34] Gennifer Eros: I would like to offer a suggestion if I may? [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: gennifer: sure [11:34] BlueWall Slade: you may, but run like hell afterwards [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:35] BlueWall Slade: lol [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: or tp really fast and hope it works [11:35] Gennifer Eros: An offer of landmarks to the various parties that happen here, so many people I have met have been saying that they never know where to go to meet people [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: only bad side with every 3.2 update. buttons [11:35] VivK Lowlag: what's that got to do with opensim software? [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: there is no easy answer to that Gennifer honestly [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: this is an osgrid meeting as well, so it's relevant [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: lol I dont know where to go to meet people either [11:36] BlueWall Slade: ++ [11:36] Gennifer Eros: I know and it does not but it does help numbers here lol [11:36] saera pfeffer: I go to osgrid meetings... [11:36] saera pfeffer: lol [11:36] BlueWall Slade: we need to get search + events working good [11:36] Richardus Reinard: I like the way the did button organize in 3.2 [11:36] BlueWall Slade: cross-grid [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: personally, I think knowing what events are happening is realy important [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Interesting. I haven't noticed inventory loading issue as such with viewer 3 but I have 3.1.x in Linux. I have over 19000 items. [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but there are various things in the way of that right now [11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: Gen, maybe that's something that could be handles by a user driven initiative. Admins could adopt it, but users could get it going and organized. [11:36] Gennifer Eros: I agree [11:36] Sarah Kline: they arrive at lbsa we sort them out and give them LMs [11:36] BlueWall Slade: since we have HG, it would be good to have a subscription service to share them [11:36] Gennifer Eros: Many srrive here though [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: the biggest problem with that i find [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: HG seems pretty buggy atm [11:37] Gennifer Eros: arrive* [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: is Time Zoens [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ah yes, time zones :) [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and the viewer never showing the proper time [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its so damn confusing [11:37] Gennifer Eros: I set my viewer to UTC [11:37] BlueWall Slade: that's just issues to work out, that's all [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn: My viewer's time is the proper time. Always. Full stop. The rest of you just haven't realized it. :) [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya but thats not the default [11:37] Sarah Kline: Key tries to do best with event board [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and not all viewers have a UTC option [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: could you just tell peopl to ignroe viewer time? [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: after all, they already ignore the currency stuff [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya but how [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: easy to find places to meet. Look for a large group of green tods [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: no one reads anything [11:38] Sarah Kline: lol [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: dots [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: no one ever reads anything :) [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:38] Spike Miles: XD [11:38] Marcus Llewellyn: Al ly9ou can do, really, is provide UTC and hope people actually use it. [11:38] Gennifer Eros: Thats how I do it neb but newbies dont often know to do that [11:38] BlueWall Slade: a good system should convert the time to whatever the user wants [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya there are certainly solutions, none of which are an easy answer at the moment [11:38] Dahlia Trimble: do green dots work prolperly? I thought they were kinda flakey [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they mostly work [11:39] Gennifer Eros: They are [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: up to a point [11:39] BlueWall Slade: I want telehubs too :D [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they start breaking around 200 avatars [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: THey are in the right place now. [11:39] Gennifer Eros: Green dots dont always clear when an AV leaves a region [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: lots of times I see lots of avatars but no green dots [11:39] Sarah Kline: they tend to linger too long afterwards ) [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: pffff, 200 avatars :) [11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: I haven't noticed gree dot problems for a while, myself. [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they should mostly work [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt work for HG [11:39] Sarah Kline: i think they do work [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: hmm 3.2 dont have replace outfit :O [11:40] Gennifer Eros: I have seen like 2 or 3 on a region, gone there and there is only 1 or none [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: what is the green dot mechanism? I presume it's not tied in to map tile generation? [11:40] BlueWall Slade: ohhh, there's an avatar url too [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: If green dots don't turn off when someone leaves it would think it means the update isn't sent when avatar logs out. [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: .. [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: problem with green dots. your avatar seems to appear on neighborn regions sometimes as dot [11:40] Gennifer Eros: Green dots indicate AV's justin, at least it's supposed to lol [11:40] BlueWall Slade: you can point it to a web app to show the various avatars [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its a packet thats sent [11:41] BlueWall SladeBlueWall Slade has viwer [11:41] Gennifer Eros: I had someone with a phantom one that would follow her everywhere [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i think thats just your own green dot [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:41] Gennifer Eros: Could only see it on the main map [11:41] dan banner: lol ive had a few people thought they were being stalked [11:41] Gennifer Eros: No it was not neb [11:42] Gennifer Eros: I was with her and saw it [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... someone should make a green dot follower object :-) [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I dont see how it could not be their own green dot [11:42] Gennifer Eros: There were just the 2 on the region but 3 dots on the map [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: if it moves everytime they move [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: its them [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:42] Marcus Llewellyn: Dunno abpout other viewers, but in imp your own dot is yellow. [11:42] dan banner: its a green dot that shows yourself in addition to the yellow dot [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:42] Gennifer Eros: Yes it is [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: normally you are a gold/yellow dot [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but it can also show both sometimes [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, I've seen that happen [11:42] Gennifer Eros: Ahhhh ok [11:43] dan banner: ya its not a haunted region or anything like people think lol [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: rofl [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: SOmetimes it takes a few moments for the green dot to turn yellow [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: hehe [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: double click map teleprot = crash with 3.2 [11:43] dan banner: i think the last person i talked to used :devilish" [11:43] Gennifer Eros: Well the one following her never turned yellow lol [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: and for soem reason i still see the wrong map in viewer 3 [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: I thnk its the green dots on the big map that I find inaccurate, the minimap dots seem ok [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, different mechanisms [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:44] Gennifer Eros: Generally yes dahlia [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: minimap and mainmap are not the same at all [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: the minimap ones are sent out every couple of seconds or so - the map ones are done differently [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: they should work off the same dataset. [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: minimap is viewerside only i think [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: mainmap data comes from the simulator [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: minimap is a special packet sent from the sim [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: courseavatarupdate or something like that [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: CoarseLocationUpdate [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: maybe thats it [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: ok. sl3.2 teleports still break here [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: ya teleports have a bug [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: 3.2 isn't released by linden lab yet, right? [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: yes. its as beta [11:46] Gennifer Eros: Any idea whats up with all the crashing recently? [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so not released [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: recently? [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: but if you install 3.0.3 the push you up if your not carefull [11:46] Gennifer Eros: The last 2 days, today especially [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: Ive been using 3.2 for a week or so [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i wasnt aware of any increased crashing activity lately [11:46] dan banner: seems more stable to me lately [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: could be network issues on your side Gennifer [11:46] Sarah Kline: nor me [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ive not gotten increasing reports of that anyway [11:46] Marcus Llewellyn: Bad TPs were a known problem with 3.2 viewers last I knew. It's a viewer thing. [11:47] Gennifer Eros: I have crashed about 20 times today, my viewer just closes no error message or anything [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: sl3.2 open map. doble click to sim you want to teleport = crash. home = crash [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I find it's best to wait for viewer release a lot of the time before looking for opensim-related bugs [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i would not fully assume its 100% viewer related Marcus [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: stay with imp1.4b2 for now [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: it certainly does not fail as often in SL [11:47] dan banner: probably video drivers or something genn [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: as it does on OpenSim [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: theres a teleport bug in opensim, one of the regions sends a teleport failed message even if the TP was ok [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: opensim its like 90% TP fail with V3 [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its like 10% fail in SL [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: and sometimes causes viewer crashes or logouts [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting - I haven't had any issues [11:47] Gennifer Eros: Should not be my motherboard is only a month old and I got the latest drivers for it then [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i have [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: but it very well could be certain things [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: btut I don't do a huge amount of teleporting - and all that I've done is on a private installation [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: That teleport bug i see with imprudence to, many times a TP request fails and you need to ask for slutrls. (anyway betetr then LM) [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: one thing i noticed [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: in my OKC Tower [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: its an erroneous message sent by opensim [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot I had a very very old mesh [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: up at like 300m [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: and everytime you tp'd there with V3 it was insta crash [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: once i erased it the crashing stopped [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: hmm [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so some of it could be related to those old mesh's still floating around [11:48] dan banner: yup it got me several times [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: 90% sounds a bit too high for that, though [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya i'll do some more testing [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: all i can say is i had a very difficult time teleporting with V3 [11:49] Marcus Llewellyn: The vast majority of regions I TP to are not mesh enabled. [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it almost never fails for me with Imprudence [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: for me it could be inventory [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: i have a huge inventory [11:49] dan banner: v3 has had reasonable tp's for me [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and it never seems to fully download [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: you never have exit problems with 3.2 ? i saw it in firestorm but now with 3.2 to exit keeps viewer hanging at end [11:49] dan banner: not too many problems [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: could be part of my problem [11:49] Gennifer Eros: I thought 7.2 was default mesh enabled [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: it is Gennifer [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: as soon i press ctrl-alt-h i instant crash with 3.2 [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: then don't do it :O) [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: try to TP hoem from wright [11:50] Gennifer Eros: lol [11:50] Marcus Llewellyn: 3.2 is just very fragile right now, from what I gather. LL is focusing a lot on it's new UI, and if other things break, that's for tomorrow. [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: lol justin. [11:50] saera pfeffer: lol [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: well the UI is a big improvement already [11:50] Gennifer Eros: I will stick with the imp viewer [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: yes. best for here. have more usefull things to. [11:51] Gennifer Eros: Yep [11:51] Sarah Kline: you stick with what you want to use [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya V3 will eventually improve [11:51] Marcus Llewellyn: I would very much like to use 3.2 or a 3.2 based TPD regularly. But right now I stick to Imp unless I need 3.2 specific features. [11:51] Unknown User: Second Life 3.2.2 (0) Nov 8 2011 18:55:12 (LindenDeveloper) [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: you might try Exodus viewer [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i heard pretty good things about it [11:51] dan banner: i started using a v1 with mesh and never looked back [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: it is useful to have people trying v3, but it's not worth looking at bugs until these viewers are out in the widl [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: burned once my fingers on that one. its haveing the sidebar. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: once more of the TPV's are using it primarily [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I was running 3.1.0 and was just notified that it wants to download 3.2.0 for me. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: then things should start smoothing out more [11:52] Unknown User: I was able to HG here with this one [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: switch to manual downloads inthe preferences [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, you can disable that option [11:52] Unknown User: it has the updated webkit plugin too [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i'll test V3 later with a avatar with less inventory [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: hg is definitely not working well, mr unknown user [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i bet money my 25000 inventory items is a factor [11:52] Marcus Llewellyn: O Kokua, Kokua, wherefore art thou, Kokua? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:53] BlueWall Slade: crashed [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: neb. i only have 4500 (growing faster now) [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno, I think kokua development is stalling [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: you cant really blame the TPV's for taking their time with all the UI changes coming from LL [11:53] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not encourageing lately, jcc, for sure. [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ah you crashed on TP BlueWall? [11:53] BlueWall Slade: no, after a few minutes [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ah hmm [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya i have noticed its not always instant [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats what sorta leads me to beleive it may be inventory related [11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: I a;lmost always *arrive* just fine in a 3.2 TP. But I crash immediately on arrival, or shortly thereafter. [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I have seen that behaviour a little bit. I too would suspect a stray packet more than anything else [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: it would be interesting to know if there is any clue in the viewer log [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya it would not suprise me we are missing something that viewer wants [11:54] Gennifer ErosGennifer Eros only has a little over 2000 inventory items :) [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: or a packet which has something missing that the viewer now crashes without [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: and it doesnt react well when it doesnt get it [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have a problem with SL 3.x downloading latest viewer for me. Its not my main viewer program. Its useful for being in SL where there may be mesh objects [11:55] dan banner: i run across mesh all the time here [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: for SL i have singularity 1.6 andrew [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: oh really? [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Marcus, I've seen the viewer crash shortly after arrival issue. Usual solution that I find is to clear viewer cache. [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think alot of people are playing with mesh here now [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: but its good to have orginal viewer to for comapre things [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: the symptom of the erroneous teleport failed message is you crash just after arrival, or are logged out, or you get a "teleport failed" dialog on your screen [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: here ? [11:56] Gennifer Eros: Some even have mesh AV's [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: I tell you the primary thing I use V3 for is not mesh [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: its for lighting [11:56] dan banner: theres at least a dozen regions that are all mesh that i know of [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: some viewers have special code to ignore it [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, singularity? YAV. I haven't seen that one mentioned before [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: its amazing how horrible things made in Imprudence look in V3 [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: if your using lights [11:56] Sarah Kline: lol yes [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: brights are like 500% brighter [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lights are* [11:57] Sarah Kline: shadows on floor at lbsa in middle [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, I hate brights. It can often wash out textures. Might look ok in one persons viewer/monitor but not on another persons. [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: dont want a sll mesh drama here. so hope it stays a bit longer away here. until a viewer works [11:57] Kev Brinner: hello all [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: no not texture full bright [11:57] Sarah Kline: dan was being blinded by facelights this afternoon [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: hi kev [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: im talking about feature lighting [11:57] Gennifer Eros: Hello kev [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: omg they are soo bright in v3 [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: ANdrew glow is many times abused. a glow of 0.05 to 0.10 is most enpugh. [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: plus no more 8 light limit [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: you really gotta tone lighting down for v3 [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: fauture lightning ? [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yes. Any more than that is too much most times. [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i spent a whole day redoing Universal Campus [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya on the prim feature tab [11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: It's not just lighting that;s different. Shiny is altogether different too. I'd say it's actually *correct* in V3. [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Light option [11:58] Sarah Kline: then somebody comes in with a face light and ruins it [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: well, when do wee get a good SL3 viewer for opensim ? [11:58] Richardus Raymaker: face lights are already bad in SL1 [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: DisableFacelights = "true" [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: :) [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya might have to turn that on [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: meh [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i have that dojne now marcus [11:59] dan banner: i really like having mesh in a v1 UI [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: but there good facelights to that dont flood the floor and everything [11:59] Marcus Llewellyn: If I could upload it in a V1 UI, I'd be happy. But just seeing em isn't sufficient. [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: i balme people with old pc's and viewers at low quality. the screw things to high [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: blame ^ [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: I pretty much dont think we'll ever see Mesh upload in a true 1.x interface [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: at best someone might make V3 look exactly like v1 [12:00] BlueWall Slade: this V3 interface is pretty clean [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: which is really what they should be doing [12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: I guess Firestorm now has a working opensource mesh upload? Have I seen that? [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: well the SL3.2 ui combined with imprudence could mamke a good mix [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: well the problem from my understanding [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: is the difference in licensing [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: you can not port some things backwards from V3 to V1 [12:01] BlueWall Slade: the mesh upload code? [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: Nebadon. you have looked at 3.2 ? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: right [12:01] Dahlia Trimble: lunch time for me, bye all :) [12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Ahhhh... [12:01] BlueWall Slade: bye Dahlia [12:01] Sarah Kline: byes [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: even the open stuff they have in there [12:01] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya, Dahlia [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: can not really legally be ported back to V1 [12:01] Gennifer Eros: Bye dahlia [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: 3.2 have again more normal buttons you can move also [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: it would not be accepted as a TPV i suspect [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye dahlia [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: see ya dahlia [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: so ya [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: dont hold your breath on Mesh upload in V1 [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: you never know someone might go nuts and redo all of it for v1 [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: but that seems sorta like a huge waste of time to me [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: mmmmm [12:02] BlueWall Slade: the lights and things are wayy better too [12:02] Marcus Llewellyn: There's some pretty fanatical V1 devs out there. I wouldn't rule it out. [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: well i think V1 will die. now LL make SL3 more the feeling as V1 [12:02] BlueWall Slade: the web interfaces [12:02] dan banner: i use sl to upload and astra to view [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: astra not nice to use beause the stars bug [12:03] BlueWall Slade: Gennifer, that was a good idea about organizing the activities and getting the word out [12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: What's it do to stars? [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: stars bug? [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i get that stars bug in almost all V2/V3 [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: its a hardware issue [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: square stars [12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Ditto... all stars are blocks in V2/3 for me. [12:04] BlueWall Slade: the square stars? [12:04] BlueWall Slade: ahhh [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: No. in SL3 i have not seen it [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: i only see it with astra [12:04] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev         559e6e5: 2011-11-06 20:43:49 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: the big square starts yes [12:04] Sarah Kline: then dont use it [12:04] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks wonders about a viewer that crashes after the sun goes down and the stars come out :-: [12:04] Sarah Kline: use the one you like [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its funny [12:04] Marcus Llewellyn: Block stars aren't a blocker for me, though. Heh. [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: saves having to battle the creepers [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: a long while ago i asked Lindens at Mesh meeting about the square stars [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: and they had no idea what i was talking about [12:04] Sarah Kline: oh i remember that [12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Makes me feel all 8bit. :) [12:05] Sarah Kline: lol [12:05] Richardus Raymaker: well sarah, then do me 70% imprudence and 30% SL3.2 [12:05] Richardus Raymaker: mix that at low heat for 30 minutes [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: I did send them a screenshot [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: and i might have even uploaded that to a jira [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember now [12:05] Sarah Kline: they were wrong though you were right [12:05] Marcus Llewellyn: I assume we're missing a texture server side is all. [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its nota texture [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: according to Lindens [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: its procedural [12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: hrm [12:06] BlueWall Slade: there is a person that is working on moon phases [12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: odd [12:06] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks couldn't find the panda statues near Luna in SL. The land seems to have changed a little bit. [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: heheheh [12:06] Marcus Llewellyn: Moon phases isn't ambitious enough. Gimme a fully customizeable skydome, plz. >:) [12:06] BlueWall Slade: heh