Chat log from the meeting on 2021-07-13

 [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It is a blazing hot summer evening at 19 C here [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that a typo? 19C is not blazing hot. [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: here it is [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: :) Today the temperature is going to go up to 29C with humidex of 35C. [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hehe. In San Francisco it is called a hot day if you can see the sun. [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:05] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hey everybody [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie [11:06] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hi, Selby. [11:07] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Selby [11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hi Selby! [11:07] Kayaker Magic: Where is Ubit? Anyone know if he is coming? [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not logged on as far as I can see [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Don't know. I dropped a reminder message in to the IRC channel about the meeting. [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he has not committed anything since last week [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so... [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: No news is good news?? ;) [11:09] Kayaker Magic: No new bugs! [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: well, it is summer [11:10] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantis about animesh. Ubit told me it is documented behavior. [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you subit an SL JIRA on it? [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: submit* [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I aussume documented behvior is SL documented behavior [11:11] Kayaker Magic: I tested it in SL and it worked fine the way I expected it to. You can stop an animation by name even if it is not in inventory. [11:12] Kayaker Magic: The Wiki says it must be in inventory, so Ubit implimented it the way the Wiki states. [11:12] Kayaker Magic: How do you get an animation stuck running not in inventory? By testing and uploading animations over and over again and forgetting (JST ONCE) to stop it before deleting it. [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I would think you should be able to stop an animation as long as you own the object that is animated. [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: What viewer did you test in? [11:13] Kayaker Magic: FS 6.4.13 and 6.4.20 [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OK, but FS behavior is not necessarily SL dcoumented behaior [11:14] Kayaker Magic: Like Ubit says, everything works the way the Wiki says. [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sou you need to test with the official Sl viewer [11:15] Kayaker Magic: I'm making an airplane with all the control surfaces animated with animesh. Eventually I'll stop changing the animations, and I won't have trouble with them getting stuck any more. [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: As I said, it needs to be tested in the official SL viewer in SL to verify correct animesh behavior [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would also file a SL JIRA if the outcome in SL is not as you desire/require [11:20] Kayaker Magic: Well, FS works better than the Wiki documentation in SL, so the only thing that test might tell me is that the official SL viewer does not work better than the Wiki. And I don't care what works or doesn't in SL. [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OK, but FS behavior is not what we code for [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and particularly not on animesh [11:21] Kayaker Magic: OK, assuming the official viewer also works better than the Wiki, will Ubit change the code to violate what the Wiki says? [11:21] Kayaker Magic: I think not. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: code and wiki are not always in sync unfortunately [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: So true. [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit. [11:22] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:23] Kayaker Magic: Speak of the Devil! [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Ubi [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit* [11:24] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi Ubit [11:24] Ubit Umarov: plz go on your talk [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, just talking about not being able to stop an animation if it isn't in inventory but that it is documented behaviour (in the wiki). [11:26] Kayaker Magic: I was explaining that I was resigned to it working the way it is. osClearObjectAnimations is a big help. [11:26] Kayaker Magic: And after I'm done debugging my animations, I don't get them stuck any more. [11:26] Ubit Umarov: yeah obeject animations must ne on object inventories [11:27] Ubit Umarov: object ones also ;) [11:27] Kayaker Magic: There is a spinning turbine outside that is an animated animesh that is not a mesh body! [11:27] Ubit Umarov: not this is a spec restriction, not sure why [11:27] Ubit Umarov: oops that not is wrong. it is.. [11:28] Kayaker Magic: Copyable if anyone wants to learn animesh, although come see me for the DAE to learn more about the rigging. [11:28] Ubit Umarov: ty [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: protecting content creators and not ruining experiences is my guess [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: If the animation must be in object inventory that seems to mean a script couldn't properly reference animations by UUID. [11:28] Kayaker Magic: Animations in avatars have never been allowed to start by UUID. [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: griefing vector [11:29] Grid: Delivery of free object succeeded Object Name: Turbine [11:29] Ubit Umarov: start must be by nam [11:29] Ubit Umarov: name [11:30] Ubit Umarov: but stop can be by uuid, still if in prim inv [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, The news today was no news as there has been no commits seen in git log. [11:36] Ubit Umarov: actuall fs new cache changes did kill llstatanimtion [11:36] Ubit Umarov: yeah no commits [11:37] Ubit Umarov: Meanwhile Beq did fix it [11:37] Ubit Umarov: thing is that the Builtin animations do not need to be on object inventoty [11:37] Ubit Umarov: wlel we may have that broken also [11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeah we do [11:39] Ubit Umarov: no suport for builtin animations [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a question about Firestorm. [11:40] Ubit Umarov: in fact sl wiki is also confusion [11:41] Ubit Umarov: says [11:41] Ubit Umarov: string   anim    –    an item in the inventory of the prim this script is in or built-in animation [11:41] Ubit Umarov: then.. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: If anim is missing from the prim's inventory then an error is shouted on DEBUG_CHANNEL. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: duhh [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: remember SL has not deployed the new cache code yet [11:42] Ubit Umarov: yeha but this is unrelated [11:42] Ubit Umarov: on or code the animation also must be always present on the prim [11:42] Ubit Umarov: ie no checks fo the so called "Builtin" [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess the Builtin is just assumed to be available [11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably some of the oldest code in the viewer [11:44] Ubit Umarov: nopes.. script engine will just error out [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and since it is built in, no need to check for presence [11:44] Ubit Umarov: grrr [11:44] Ubit Umarov: server code CHECKS for presence [11:44] Ubit Umarov: that is the issue [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oru server code check for presence? [11:44] Ubit Umarov: ofc [11:45] Ubit Umarov: viewer does not [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no [11:45] Ubit Umarov: well old bug [11:45] Ubit Umarov: that now is confusing with ll removing "builtin" things [11:47] Ubit Umarov: on the object ones, they forgot all abotu that [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, but in the official release viewer it has not been removed [11:48] Ubit Umarov: guess they will [11:48] Ubit Umarov: no idea what they are doing [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: well, there is no work being done on the cache code at the moment [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because it is burning all around them elsewhere [11:48] Ubit Umarov: possible they founf that new simple cache is slower than older [11:49] Ubit Umarov: fs team seems to believe it is fast [11:49] Ubit Umarov: faster.. [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah IDK - could even be an issue with cache coherency depending on how updates are propageted in the CDN and AWS simulators [11:50] Ubit Umarov: wlel with Beq changes that is again irrelevant [11:50] Ubit Umarov: fs 6.4.21 does ship again with the assets [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:50] Ubit Umarov: or will when released :) [11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:51] Ubit Umarov: but we stiil have this old issue [11:51] Ubit Umarov: all animations must be on the prim [11:52] Ubit Umarov: since we do not provide any inventory link to the builtin ones.. FAIL:: [11:52] Ubit Umarov: odd think [11:52] Ubit Umarov: why no reports ? [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have you tried in an animesh accessing a built in animation by name? [11:54] Ubit Umarov: im not talking about oject ones.. [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because I would believe the viewer will resolve the name as it should be in "base" inventory [11:54] Ubit Umarov: but about the avatar oones [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: avatar ones? [11:55] Ubit Umarov: sever does not send names to fiver [11:55] Ubit Umarov: yes llStartAnimation [11:56] Ubit Umarov: that only sends uuids to viewer [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and you say that llStartAnimation cannot use the viewer built in animations? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: yes [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok... [11:57] Ubit Umarov: server does not see them on prim, so refuces [11:57] Ubit Umarov: no one ever did add code do handle the buildin [11:58] Ubit Umarov: stange thing.. [11:58] Ubit Umarov: strange.. [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on prims? [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as in attached prims or as in animesh? [11:59] Ubit Umarov: oops code does find some [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess HUDS prims should be included in that question [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because I am pretty sure I have seen or even had HUDs that use the built in to animate the avatar [12:00] Ubit Umarov: yeah i missed some twisted code we have on that [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [12:01] Ubit Umarov: and using a folder that is not even standard [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could be true [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FT_ROOT_INVENTOR = 8 [12:03] Ubit Umarov: DefaultAnimationsPath = "data/avataranimations.xml"; [12:03] Ubit Umarov: this file has the defines [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [12:03] Ubit Umarov: so.. oops guess it works. for avatars [12:04] Ubit Umarov: just a bit confusing code [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I though the "invisible" inventory was loaded inot ROOT_INVENTORY at viewer initialization [12:04] Ubit Umarov: well and that file is outdated [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where the built in animas are invisible[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: FT_ROOT_INVENTOR = 8 [12:03] Ubit Umarov: DefaultAnimationsPath = "data/avataranimations.xml"; [12:03] Ubit Umarov: this file has the defines [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [12:03] Ubit Umarov: so.. oops guess it works. for avatars [12:04] Ubit Umarov: just a bit confusing code [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I though the "invisible" inventory was loaded inot ROOT_INVENTORY at viewer initialization [12:04] Ubit Umarov: well and that file is outdated [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: where the built in animas are invisible [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet it is :-) [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: We have just passed the 1 hour mark. Any last minute comments or questions before we wrap up todays meeting? [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just a short comment to viewer development is that LL has started converting the build system for python 3 [12:06] Kayaker Magic: I've got a contractor to talk to in RL, gota run. [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: The build system uses Python? [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Kayaker. tc. [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: autobuild is written in python 2 [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: plus there are a bunch of helper scripts for the build [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and also the SL updater [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I never looked at the viewer build system that closely. It always just seemed a bit odd to me whatever it was doing. [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the updated will be interesting for them with phyton 2 and phyton 3 coexistence on Windows and macOS [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the updated will be interesting for them with phyton 2 and phyton 3 coexistence on Windows and macOS [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am not sure what Win 11 will support [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: python 2 is removed from the macOS version that will release this fall [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Linux is pretty much python 3 too [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: There are still some parts of it that use Python 2 but it has pretty much going to 3 for new things. [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with macOS 12 you have to install it separate, but you can't ask a user to do that to run the viewer [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: guess the same with Win 11 [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It is about time to wrap up todays meeting. My cat is wanting my attention. :) [12:12] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: must go  bye - all [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: anyways :-) [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, bye Selby. [12:12] Ubit Umarov: cya [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cat [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you for coming. See you all again next week.