Chat log from the meeting on 2018-04-03

Contents:

- Discussed mantis #8311 (llAcos and llAsin return NaN for values very close to 1.0)

- Memory leak in Robust

- Problem migrating from SQLite to MySQL

[11:01] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: hello Selby

[11:01] George Equus: Hi Andrew

[11:01] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: anyone of you can confirm that there is no moon in singularity?

[11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.

[11:01] LaNani Sundara: hi Andrew

[11:02] LaNani Sundara: well a singularity is usually a black hole so moons stand no chance against that

[11:02] LaNani Sundara: :D

[11:03] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000 sighs

[11:03] LaNani Sundara: sorry :)

[11:03] George Equus: Hello Bill

[11:03] George Equus: Hi Ubit

[11:03] LaNani Sundara: hi Ubit

[11:03] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: hi Ubit

[11:04] LaNani Sundara: hi Arielle

[11:04] George Equus: Hello Arielle

[11:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Howdy

[11:04] LaNani Sundara: hi Bill

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hai  Nani

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi George

[11:04] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: hi Bill

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Oh  Sky!

[11:04] Arielle Popstar: Hi

[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Good turn out today. We must be past all the problems arising from changing the clock.

[11:05] Arielle Popstar: Hi  Ubit...thankx  for  softening  my fall

[11:05] Ubit Umarov: hi

[11:06] Ubit Umarov: sorry kayaker, as i said in last meeting i did refuse your patch :(

[11:06] Arielle Popstar: Hi Tx, Andrew, Selby, Kay and  TG

[11:06] LaNani Sundara: the double / float discussion?

[11:06] Ubit Umarov: actually worse that that

[11:07] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi arielle

[11:07] LaNani Sundara: o ok

[11:07] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: hello all

[11:07] Arielle Popstar: and  Hi Bill

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: its just side effects of limited precision on math

[11:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Howdy peoples

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: double/ float only changes the errors, not the issues

[11:07] Kayaker Magic: That was bad social engineering Ubit, you should have waited until after I submitted instead of discouraging me from submitting anything.

[11:07] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: brb

[11:08] Kayaker Magic: But I gritted my teeth and learned how to make a patch despite your encouragement.

[11:08] Arielle Popstar: its  a side  effect  of  limited  social engineering precision

[11:08] Kayaker Magic: lol

[11:08] Ubit Umarov: hmm ?

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: mantis 8311 isn't yours ?

[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Yes, that was me.

[11:09] Ubit Umarov: then??

[11:10] Ubit Umarov: i did tried to avoid you the trouble :p

[11:10] LaNani Sundara: i think he liked making a patch, learning how yo do it :)

[11:10] LaNani Sundara: to*

[11:11] Kayaker Magic: Learning a new system is difficult, I would suggest people need encouragement to get over the initial difficulty.

[11:11] George Equus: Hi Gary

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Whether the proposed solution was valid or not, the problem seems valid to me although i haven't yet run the tests in the report or the ones on the LSL wiki.

[11:11] LaNani Sundara: if i remember the meeting noots

[11:11] LaNani Sundara: hi Gary :)

[11:11] Gary Monsterous: Hi George and ALL

[11:11] Gary Monsterous: Hi Nani

[11:11] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Gary

[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome, Gary

[11:11] Arielle Popstar: core hasnt  a  reputation for  wanting  patches  from outside of  core in past

[11:11] Gary Monsterous: ty Andrew and Shelby

[11:12] Arielle Popstar: hi Gary

[11:12] Gary Monsterous: hi Arielle

[11:12] Ubit Umarov: don't say nonsense..

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: patchs are accepted or refused acording to valid reasons

[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Well, moving on to other issues: I have a HUGE problem with robust leaking 8GB of memory a day. Andybody else had a problem like this?

[11:13] Arielle Popstar: mmhmm

[11:13] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: ok, i've tried to migrate from sqlite to mysql and started with OpenSim.db. first table in there is prims. in sqlite there is a field 'VolumeDetect', which is not in the mysql prims table, but instead there is a field 'LinkNumber' which is missed in sqlite. whats up here?

[11:13] Ubit Umarov: hmm result at SL [10:54] Object: NaN! vector=<0.58929, 0.53261, -0.60751> failed 54 of 163, 33%

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I have been having a problem with Robust leaking memory for some time. I don't know why it happens.

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: at opensim (Yengine) 11:12] Object: NaN! vector=<0.756857, 0.653552, 0.006147> failed 21 of 89, 23%

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: guess dif is bc we do some of the math with doubles

[11:14] Ubit Umarov: but not a big dif

[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Um... Hold on a moment Kayaker and tx.Oh on the other issues.

[11:15] Arielle Popstar: Linux, windows  Tx?

[11:15] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Kaymaker, what platform do you use?

[11:15] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ha

[11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Mono Version?

[11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if *nix

[11:15] LaNani Sundara whispers: Kay: memory leak in Robust

[11:15] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: the assets table is completely different in each database...

[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Linux, and we saw the same leaking on 0.9.0 release and a recent 0.9.1 dev

[11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I think we are finished with the angle discussion for now.

[11:16] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'm not seeing a memory leak, but I'm not using master , so I'll shut up now .. ;)

[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen the Robust memory leak with several different versions of Robust.

[11:16] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Are you observing robust memory or system memory usage?

[11:16] Kayaker Magic: Using an old 4.x mono to avoid the 50x slowdown from mono 5.x

[11:16] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: alos real or virtual

[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: it uses up all system memory and eventually crashes the machine.

[11:16] Kayaker Magic: robust gets larger and larger every day until it crashes.

[11:16] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Later linux cache files in memory

[11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: where did you hear a 50x slowdown in 5.x hahaha

[11:17] LaNani Sundara: do you run all services on one robust?

[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I do.

[11:18] LaNani Sundara: i meant if they were split over services it would be easier to determine if it was related to one service

[11:18] Kayaker Magic: 50x slowdown is for list fetch functions in OpenSim on some versions of mono. I submitted a mantis for this... looking up

[11:18] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: linux command #free -m will show the cache status

[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: LaNani, I thought that is where you were going with that idea.

[11:18] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: back

[11:18] LaNani Sundara: :)

[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: wb, SkyFlier.

[11:18] LaNani Sundara: wb Sky

[11:18] Gary Monsterous: wb Sky

[11:19] LaNani Sundara: it may be just one or 2 services that have a leak

[11:19] Kayaker Magic: 5ox slowdown in list fetches is mantis # 8251

[11:19] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Sky, leighton

[11:19] Arielle Popstar: Hi Leighton

[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's stick to one problem at a time.

[11:19] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: Hello all can see you now :)

[11:20] LaNani Sundara: hi

[11:20] Arielle Popstar: mesh  seems  to be  rezzing  a  little  faster  hgere

[11:20] LaNani Sundara: thank your viewer cache ;)

[11:21] Arielle Popstar: i just  cleared  viewer  cache  yesterday

[11:21] LaNani Sundara: lol kk

[11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Several people replied to that mantis kayaker, does not look like everyone could replicate your issue on 8251

[11:21] Ubit Umarov whispers: on recent monos (4x) try starting robust with mono --desktop Robust.exe

[11:21] Ubit Umarov whispers: err

[11:22] Ubit Umarov: on recent monos (5x) try starting robust with mono --desktop Robust.exe

[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, It didn't help.

[11:22] LaNani Sundara: you suspect slow reacting GC, Ubit?

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: failed gc actually

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: if does not like opensim kind of applications

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: that did made a dif on regions

[11:23] Ubit Umarov: or does..

[11:23] LaNani Sundara: GC only cleans up what it thinks is released or no longer in use, bad code can just hold on to things

[11:23] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes, it makes a  big difference

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: No.. it is more comple than that

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: complex

[11:24] LaNani Sundara: of course it is more complex :) just keeping it short

[11:24] Ubit Umarov: that is the naive story about gc :p

[11:24] LaNani Sundara: *rills eyes

[11:25] LaNani Sundara: Rolls

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: and depends on what version of gc.. they keep changing it..

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: bc they do know how bad it is

[11:25] Ubit Umarov: ( in some cases )

[11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, what version of mono are you using?

[11:26] Ubit Umarov: of course.. there maybe some true leaks... i just didn't found them still .P

[11:27] LaNani Sundara: that was my point

[11:27] LaNani Sundara: :p

[11:27] Kayaker Magic: For testing, I use the latest 5.10.1.20

[11:27] Ubit Umarov: well you can also test the branch httptests

[11:28] Kayaker Magic: the grid I'm seein the robust leak on, they use .. mono 4.2? I'm not sure

[11:28] LaNani Sundara: how about dividing the services up over a few robusts and see which ones have the leak?

[11:28] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I don't see any memory increase on robust, other than what I have said. And that can be cleared

[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: LaNani, that is something I will look in to. I just don't like making big changes to a running grid.

[11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: mine does not seem to leak either ..

[11:30] LaNani Sundara: maybe compare which services you and Kay run, there may be one he runs that you do not

[11:30] LaNani Sundara: then that one could be the suspect

[11:30] Kayaker Magic: What do you do about your robust leak Andrew? Restart it every few days?

[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Every few days? Try at least once a day.

[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm currently restarting Robust every 8 hours.

[11:31] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: i use 4.6.2 on an arm7

[11:31] LaNani Sundara: is it then no wonder you do not notice leaks?

[11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Just to make sure it doesn't crash the system. It can chew through 28G of RAM in no time if left unchecked.

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: Gee Andrew, you should report that to one of the devs!

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: :)

[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: :)

[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I have.

[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't filed a formal bug report about it.

[11:32] Kayaker Magic: ROFLMAO

[11:32] Ubit Umarov: well Andrew is a dev.. guess he will work on that

[11:32] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: my server has 32 gig of ram, robust has been running for a little over a week, Robust and 3 regions and I have 25 gig free ..

[11:33] LaNani Sundara: silly me.. i thought robusts should be able to run for days, weeks...

[11:33] Gary Monsterous: :)

[11:33] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: before my last restart robust had run for almost 6 weeks

[11:33] LaNani Sundara: i wonder how OSgrid doe sit

[11:33] LaNani Sundara: thats more like it Bill :)

[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I have another couple of grids that I can check where Robust isn't leak memory. I'll have to take a closer look at how the two grids are configured.

[11:34] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Our robust runs continuous between Opensim updates to master, so that is general the time scale by which we compare

[11:34] LaNani Sundara: it must be related to one or 2 services then?

[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Probably but I can't think of any real difference in how the different grids were configured when it comes to Robust.

[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: One option might be Xbakes. I'll have to check that.

[11:35] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Os version, mono version,  can make a big diff on memory usage

[11:35] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Linux is complex, some distributions set all kinds of unnecessary services running.

[11:35] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I use Xbakes on mine

[11:36] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: What about FSAsseset?

[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not using it.

[11:37] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I am

[11:37] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: me neither

[11:37] LaNani Sundara: and you do not have the leaks Sky?

[11:37] Kayaker Magic: I think my system is using FSAssets

[11:37] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: no

[11:37] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: i always used FSassets before my move to Bills grid (so still do indirectly)

[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Is Kayaker and myself the only two people at this meeting experiencing the leak in Robust?

[11:39] LaNani Sundara: i do not run my own robusts

[11:39] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: i use standalone right now.

[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: ok.

[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, how many regions do you have running?

[11:40] Kayaker Magic: ~120. half 8x8 vars, half 4x4 vars

[11:40] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I don't know robust frim sickly

[11:41] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: i run 9 x 1024x1024 regions and my mem usage is about 500MB

[11:41] Arielle Popstar: dont  see  issues  on  my  windowed  robusts

[11:41] Kayaker Magic: running maptiles every 12 hours

[11:41] LaNani Sundara: 120 ? sims and robusts all on one server?

[11:41] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Is that ~60 8x8 or 64 regions of one?

[11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, ok. I was wondering if it would be easier to test changes with your grid.

[11:42] Kayaker Magic: easier how? Fewer people to piss off by shutting it down?

[11:42] LaNani Sundara: how many regions per opensim?

[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I know. I have the same problem with a grid of over 300 regions.

[11:43] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I have several huge vars, like 16x16

[11:43] Kayaker Magic: I'm not the direct contact, but I seem to recall one instance per region...

[11:43] LaNani Sundara: ok

[11:44] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: you can replace and restart robust without taking the grid down

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, We are getting close to the top of the hours. I will talk with you more about this via Skype.

[11:44] LaNani Sundara: tx had an issue with migration to MySQL

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: tx.Oh had a question about moving from SQLite to MySQL.

[11:44] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: equates to over 1000 regions

[11:44] LaNani Sundara: :)

[11:44] Kayaker Magic: OK, I'm happy to hear it discussed this much already!

[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: LaNani, thanks. I remembered. I've been keeping some notes. :)

[11:44] LaNani Sundara: sorry :)

[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I'm happy to hear of someone else having the same problem.

[11:45] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: yes. the table layout differs

[11:45] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: and i wonder how that could happen

[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: That doesn't surprise me that much, tx.Oh.

[11:45] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: but how can i make a smooth transitions?

[11:46] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: don't like to sort out the inventory of the users....

[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: When there are changes in the database structure the changes usually get applied to the MySQL side of things first. The other supported databases can lag behind in getting the changes.

[11:47] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: You would have to write some code

[11:47] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: tg.lucan, shure. but if the tables lack fields....

[11:48] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I didn't say it would be easy

[11:48] LaNani Sundara: guess... making OARs and IARs and remaking all users is ... too much work?

[11:48] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: as i said, i run into problems with the first table ahead.. don't like to know what comes next

[11:48] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000 shivers

[11:50] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: there was a tool in the opensimulator forge.. but this haritage is gone

[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: tx.Oh, I don't know how often people have tried to migrate from SQLite to MySQL.

[11:50] Arielle Popstar: mel  supposedly  still has  it\

[11:50] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: the tool is refered in the wiki but yes...

[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: First thing to do is start with a comparison of the database structures and not the differences.

[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Another place to look for the scrsipt would be the web archive.

[11:52] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: i already use insert into bla set x=v,..... because the order differs as well

[11:52] LaNani Sundara: if your standalone is not that big.. recreating it from OARs/IARs may be less work

[11:53] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: I never used Sqlite, started directly with MySQL

[11:53] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ^^

[11:53] Arielle Popstar: sqlite  has  its  uses  and  is  the  default

[11:53] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ++LaNani

[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: SQLite has (or had) a problem with being able to alter its table structures. I'm not sure if that is still the case.

[11:53] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: skyflier, well.. my first regions and grids where mysql too

[11:53] LaNani Sundara: :)

[11:53] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: but thats several years ago

[11:54] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: last few mins..Anyway. .Is it intentional for Opensim to build by default 32bit on windows?

[11:54] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: but now there is the prims table wich holds values which either of them have or not

[11:55] Ubit Umarov: since .net 4.5   ANYCPU means 32bits

[11:55] LaNani Sundara: :D

[11:55] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: good point :)

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: that is fixed on httptests,  prefer32bit is now set to false by its prebuild

[11:56] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: my wish for the future: if opensimulator has some resources like the forge, don't move everything into the bin. and please keep the tables of different database dialects in order

[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: I see some ALTER TABLE commands in the migration files for SQLite. That makes me think it can handle migration steps properly now.

[11:56] Ubit Umarov: master does not set that projects oprtion, so ANYCPU will run as 32bits even on a 64bit box

[11:56] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I also change prebuild to use vs2017 and made the same change :)

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: that is bc MS does know it is a lot better, and may do not need 64b

[11:57] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Wanted to test 4.6.2

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: httptests is on 4.6 now

[11:57] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I know

[11:57] LaNani Sundara: i build with Net 4.6 now in VS2017  with ANYCPU and it makes both an opensim32 and an opnesim

[11:57] Ubit Umarov: it is a load time decision

[11:57] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: i use 4.6.2 on a tinkerboard (arm7 raspberry clone)

[11:58] LaNani Sundara: the opensim.exe is 64bits according to the taskmanager

[11:58] Ubit Umarov: ( and windows only )

[11:58] LaNani Sundara: when it runs

[11:58] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Most the support libraries are not

[11:58] George Equus: RL calling...   have to go.

[11:58] Gary Monsterous: tc George

[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, George.

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: lanini that happens when you do compile it with a .net > 4,5 not 4.0

[11:59] LaNani Sundara: i do with 4.6 now

[11:59] LaNani Sundara: changed all the parts to 4.6

[11:59] Ubit Umarov: on httptests i did recompile most suport libs also to 4.6

[12:00] LaNani Sundara: yes i did go through the whole tree and set all to 4.6

[12:00] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: My win 10 vs 2017 does not offer 4.6 starts at 4.6.1

[12:00] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000 sighs

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: well my win10 does have a lot od .net versions

[12:00] LaNani Sundara: sorry tx

[12:00] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: So it complains, so set to 4.6.1

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: but it is a migration from win7

[12:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Must go -- bye all

[12:00] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: no

[12:00] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: new

[12:00] Ubit Umarov: i meant Mine...

[12:00] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: lanani, np..

[12:01] LaNani Sundara: you can just install them TG

[12:01] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: oh.. kk

[12:01] Kayaker Magic: ..bye Selby...

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: but that is a pain

[12:01] LaNani Sundara: :)

[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Selby.

[12:01] LaNani Sundara: byebye

[12:01] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I try to keep the machine as clean as possible,

[12:01] Ubit Umarov: we are beening forced to upgrade  grrr

[12:02] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: https://web.archive.org/web/20140903134415/http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/sqlite2mysql/

[12:02] LaNani Sundara: :)  i do can report that the master code runs fine on .Net 4.6 with all its parts compiled in 4.6

[12:02] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Like the shake a window and everything else on the desktop disappears

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: well i had hope 4.6 was up to date

[12:02] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: if someone has a copy of this tool, please let me know

[12:02] Ubit Umarov: you say win10 out of box only supports 4.6.1 ?

[12:02] LaNani Sundara: i doubt that...

[12:02] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I would appear so

[12:03] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: no 4.6 here :)

[12:03] LaNani Sundara: i have older .Net was well

[12:03] Kayaker Magic: Oh wow! Shake a window works in Win 7 also!

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: 4.6 shoud still work on vista also

[12:03] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes

[12:03] Ubit Umarov: just not XP :(

[12:04] LaNani Sundara: but my windows 10 is from an upgrade from win 7

[12:04] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: XP? only supermarket POS use that :) and atm's

[12:04] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: windows....

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: but that is a issue with mono

[12:04] Ubit Umarov: guess only 5x does suport 4.6

[12:05] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Mono went to 5.15 on the dev listing yesterday

[12:05] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: We use it for other stuff

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: yeack...

[12:05] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Opensim a good test platform for mono :)

[12:05] Ubit Umarov: they are full spewing versions at full speed :)

[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: I sometimes think mono must be on a "release early, release often" plan based on how fast their version number climbs.

[12:06] LaNani Sundara: .Net Core may be nipping at its heals though i thought they were in on that

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: that is a subset only

[12:06] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: they continue to include .Net core stuff

[12:06] Ubit Umarov: does not have all 4.7.x code

[12:06] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: 4.6.2 is probably 4.7

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: hmmm??

[12:07] LaNani Sundara: good luck tx

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: 4.7 has several difs from 4.6

[12:07] Ubit Umarov: well i did compile httptests with 4.7 also

[12:07] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: lanini, thanks.. i can manage this easily

[12:07] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Not sure what 4.6 is.. As I said it is not on these machines

[12:08] LaNani Sundara: install it?

[12:08] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: but i wonder how that can happen....

[12:08] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: no QA. it's a pitty

[12:08] Ubit Umarov: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/migration-guide/versions-and-dependencies

[12:08] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: I am going to head off back to RL see you all next week. :)

[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Take care, Leighton.

[12:09] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Would like to make a big tree of all Opensim dependances, or references.

[12:09] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: thank you Andrew

[12:09] Ubit Umarov: lol they did delete XP from the lists :)

[12:09] LaNani Sundara: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3151802/the-net-framework-4-6-2-web-installer-for-windows

[12:09] LaNani Sundara: :)

[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I know that I had to install mono-complete to get OS working on my machine. I never figured out what parts of mono were actually being used.

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: not even 1.0 lists XP lol

[12:10] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: enough to worry about

[12:10] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: i installed a freedos on a usb stick today and flashed a new firmware on my notebook

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: well possible win10 out of box only brings 4.7.2

[12:10] Ubit Umarov: err .1

[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I should check what .NET (if any) is on my laptop which is running Win10.

[12:11] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: VS 2017 offers to install 4.7.1 +

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: that is current version

[12:12] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: https://www.microsoft.com/net/download/visual-studio-sdks

[12:12] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: ok, have fun discussing different mono versions for microsoft windows... i better go into the next bar and meet some people

[12:12] tx.0h @dynapad.icf.de:9000: bye

[12:12] LaNani Sundara: well my VS2017 has al kind sof older versions  i can choose from

[12:12] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: what bar?

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: well mono is another story

[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, tx.Oh.

[12:12] Ubit Umarov: there is no clean mapping btw mono versions and .net

[12:13] LaNani Sundara: time to go :)

[12:13] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I have installed MSbuild on Linux, an email from Mono asked if we can move on :)

[12:13] Gary Monsterous: bye every body

[12:14] LaNani Sundara: byebyee

[12:14] Gary Monsterous: peace be with you all

[12:14] Kayaker Magic: Great meeting!

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: 43.65+61.11=104.75999999999999

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: :)

[12:14] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Yes, time for music

[12:14] Ubit Umarov: ( about the errors )

[12:14] Kayaker Magic: I have always viewed floating point numbers with great suspicion!

[12:14] TG.Lucan @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: sweeet dreams everyone

[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: My laptop has .NET Framekwork 3.5 and 4.7 Advanced Services.

[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: tc, Lucan.

[12:15] Kayaker Magic: BYE!

[12:15] Ubit Umarov: its just normal from finite precision

[12:15] Kayaker Magic: Poof!

[12:15] Ubit Umarov: it is really a pain to code considering that

[12:15] Ubit Umarov: as i said some math rules do not applu

[12:16] SkyFlier.NorthStar @chimerus.com:8002: going back to rl was a very entertaining meeting bye all

[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, SkyFlier. Glad you enjoyed it.

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ( and this like sqrt may have a large error

[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: bah. Not typing fast enough to catch people before they poof. :)

[12:16] Ubit Umarov: ( as used on normalize )

[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I think that's going to do it for today.