HG Meeting 2009/02/20

Summary
More support for a web-client interface to the inventory server.

Transcript
[10:11] diva: it's back; I hate those frozen moements [10:11] nebadon: ya [10:12]  nebadon: yesterday for the 1st time ever [10:12] nebadon: we had a sim recover from a failed heartbeat [10:12] nebadon: had several people log into a blue region no prims or terrain [10:12] nebadon: so i let it sit for 30 minutes hoping it would crash [10:12] nebadon: only to find out it recovered [10:12] nebadon: and was fine [10:13] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hey [10:13] Crista Lopes: hi Stefan! [10:14] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: :D [10:14] Crista Lopes: MIc was here before, but he was probably thrown out too when this froze [10:14] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I don't see you, I think [10:14] Crista Lopes: yoo-hoo! [10:15] Crista Lopes: over here at the corner [10:15] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: there you are! [10:16] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Tee hee [10:16] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I just attached a script to a tree [10:16] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that was fun [10:16] Unable to load gesture /smile. Please try again. [10:16] Crista Lopes: did it grow? [10:16] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: just as a comment to the whole 'tree' issue [10:16] Crista Lopes: :) [10:16]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, I just let it toggle between two sizes and positions [10:16]  Crista Lopes: you're moving it? [10:16]  Crista Lopes D [10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: somebody else can probably do way cooler stuff with flexi on and stuff. :D [10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yeah, a tree is like any prim, just special values [10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so, I attached a lsl script to it [10:17]  Crista Lopes: well, let's talk about interoperability [10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes [10:17]  Crista Lopes: did yo uget to see the summary from last meeting? [10:17]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Is Mic going to attend? [10:18]  Crista Lopes: Hope so... but he'll jump right on [10:18]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: hm, do you have the url from that meeting? [10:18]  Crista Lopes: hold on [10:18]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I browsed it when you sent it [10:18]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but didn't read it in detail [10:18] Crista Lopes: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/HG_Meeting_2009/02/06 [10:18] Crista Lopes: yuo can just read the summary on top [10:19] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup [10:19] Crista Lopes: one of the main architectural decisions here is whether to continue to assume the LL client or not [10:19] Crista Lopes: we can continue to hack around it to give a sense of security [10:20] Crista Lopes: but those are hacks [10:20] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think any project would pay a heavy penalty for not using the LL client as it stands today. [10:20] Fly-Man- parts #opensim-gateway7000 [10:20] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: But have you talked to Zha about that? [10:20] Crista Lopes: no [10:20]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: they are in a really weird situation with drafting a protocol wiht no real means to execute it. [10:21] Crista Lopes: yeah, well that's their problem. [10:21] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I do believe quite a lot can be done with 'hacks' - the point being, that those hacks point to a working solution [10:21] Bob.Wellman @pmgrid.julpet.ath.cx:8002: Hello [10:21] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: which will probably create the incentive to solve it in a more reasonable manner [10:21] Crista Lopes: yes. So here's a thought [10:22] Crista Lopes: inspired by someone else who had suggested this to Teravus about money [10:22] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: The Client proxy is an interesting thing that has been brought up several times [10:22] Crista Lopes: and how a lot of things are done on the internet [10:22] Crista Lopes: callback, confirmation URLs [10:22] Crista Lopes: like this: [10:22] Crista Lopes: I pull out something from my inventory [10:23] Crista Lopes: My inventory server will send an URL asking me to confirm [10:23] Crista Lopes: this URL can either be relayed via the region or... sent directly from the inventory server to the viewer [10:24] Crista Lopes: the idea would be to identify these operations that are inherently insecure, where we don't trust the regions, and add calls backs from the trusted servers [10:24] Crista Lopes: this is a hack [10:24] Crista Lopes: to be able to use this viewer [10:24] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Yes. Then again, I thik an simpler solution is to have trust zones [10:25] Crista Lopes: sure. [10:25] Crista Lopes: but I'm veru skeptical about that in general [10:25] Crista Lopes: trust is not a black & white thing [10:25] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that the regions have to provide two tokens, one to prove that they are who they are, and one that they contain the user [10:25] Crista Lopes: yes, but even if they do that they can still do evil [10:26] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: no, I know, but most oftenly, people just want to do simple things [10:26] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well, an 'untrusted' region would not be allowed to do anything, basically. [10:26] Crista Lopes: and who defines trust? [10:26] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: the authority that the user has chosen. [10:27] Crista Lopes: quite honestly, I think that whole trust spiel is just broken [10:27] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: nothing strange about that. [10:27] Crista Lopes: nah, I don't buy that in the general case [10:27] Crista Lopes: I may trust Intel servers for some things but not for others [10:27] Crista Lopes: trust is a spectrum [10:27] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well, what would be the immediate need for hypergrids? [10:27] Crista Lopes: exchange [10:27] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: obviously, that malicious regions can trash inventory ? [10:28] Crista Lopes: yes, that's the pertinent threat [10:28] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, but each trust point boils down to a 'yes' or a 'no'. [10:28] Crista Lopes: that's the thing we need to fix right now [10:28] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: the spectrum is the collection of trust points. [10:28] Crista Lopes: but it's a yes or a no that's not in bulk [10:28] Crista Lopes: it depends on the context of what youre doing [10:29] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, but apply the context, and it still boils down to a 'yes' or 'no'. [10:29] melanie_t quits saying ":Success" [10:29] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: So, it's modelling the context. [10:29] Crista Lopes: Yes or no to specific actions [10:29] Crista Lopes: not to specific hosts [10:29] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: given context, of course [10:29] Crista Lopes: I would like to be able to visit a host that I know nothing about, and know that my inventory is safe [10:29] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, I'd start with the coarse grain and work towards the finer [10:29] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: easy fast wins [10:30] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, the immediate solution would be to have 'home' and 'foreign' regions [10:30] Crista Lopes: but for that we really need to get out of that whole concept of trust domains -- I'm just not buying it [10:30]  Crista Lopes: yes -- home vs everywhere else [10:30] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup [10:30] Crista Lopes: if it's not home, it can't be trusted, period [10:31] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes [10:31] Crista Lopes: not if IBM and LL want to set up something cozy among them fine [10:31] Crista Lopes: not=now [10:31] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and home should probably be a range of regions? [10:31] Crista Lopes: but that's not a solution in general [10:31] Crista Lopes: yes, it can be [10:31]  Crista Lopes: it really is a UGAIM, I think [10:31] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so, how do we define that? [10:31] Crista Lopes: I think it's alreasy in the Hypergrid [10:32] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, the ugaim is sliwly being torn apart [10:32] Crista Lopes: you're either in your home grid or you're in a foreign grid [10:32] ocsean joins #opensim-gateway7000 [10:32] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes, but I can have malicious regions on osgrid [10:32] Crista Lopes: right, osgrid is another matter. [10:32] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so while I trust the ugaim, I only trust a given set of regions [10:32] Crista Lopes: right [10:33] Crista Lopes: actually the base case is: my home region [10:33] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup [10:33] Crista Lopes: then we can have an interface that extends that [10:33] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup [10:33] Crista Lopes: and those extended regions of trust don't need to be on the same grid even [10:33] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and the 'haven' region is something that can be configured in a web interface [10:33] Crista Lopes: yes [10:34] BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: could grid bans work [10:34] Crista Lopes: but the base case really is the home region -- of of that can be extended via the web [10:34] Crista Lopes: then there's everywhere else [10:34] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and, of course, by a node/leaf thinking, you _could_ put your trust in a grid [10:34] BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: say osgrid bans some malicious user, then others who hypergrid to OSG can have that information propigated to them? [10:34] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: if the grid is your trust boundary [10:35] Crista Lopes: yes. But I see all of that as management tools that can facilitate certain things [10:35] Crista Lopes: the base case is sims. Your home sim vs evewhere else [10:35] BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: I see OSG as a crossroads between many places [10:35] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup. I believe the road to success, this early in the process, are easy wins with demostrable effect [10:35] Crista Lopes: so here 's that scenario [10:36] Crista Lopes: inventory access in a foreign region [10:36] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so, something like the ability to just say 'home region/grid' [10:36] Crista Lopes: yes. [10:36] Crista Lopes: now what to do outside [10:36] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Yes. I think you were thinking the right way when you were thinking about moving the inventoy off the client and onto the web. [10:36] Crista Lopes: that's the interesting part [10:37] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that the 'in-worl' inventory should be thought of only as the 'local inventory' [10:37] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: local, as in local to the region [10:37] Crista Lopes: yes. what's the interaction with the user for accessing inventory in a foreign region [10:37] Crista Lopes: unfortunately, this viewer expects the items to come via the region [10:37] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: his own, full and private inventory - the web [10:37] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: in an web dialog, maybe [10:38] Crista Lopes: yes [10:38] Crista Lopes: but it could also be as simple as a confirmation URL [10:38] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: it's a hack, but again, it would be enough for a proof-of-concept [10:38] Crista Lopes: yep [10:38] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: As you described it (I might have misunderstood) it sounds a bit cumbersome? [10:39] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: having to open up new dialogs for each action [10:39] Crista Lopes: well think. let me throw you the actions [10:39] Crista Lopes: you open your inventory [10:39] Crista Lopes: (the inventory is already cached in the viewer btw) [10:39] Crista Lopes: then you, say, create a notecard [10:40] Crista Lopes: now the malicious part of the story is... [10:40] Crista Lopes: that the region might be trying to spam your inventory with ad notecards [10:40] Crista Lopes: so the action of creating things on your inventory must have a green light from the user [10:41] Crista Lopes: that has to be done in some way [10:41] Crista Lopes: maybe a full-blown web interface [10:41] Crista Lopes: maybe a confirmation URL asking if you trust this region to serve as proxy [10:42] Crista Lopes: are you here? [10:42] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: hmm.. by the way, isn't inventory creation over CAPS thee days? [10:42] Crista Lopes: no, I don't think so [10:42]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: bummer [10:42] Crista Lopes: I wish it was [10:43] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: we should probably have a real good look at what things we can force the viewer to do over caps? [10:43] BlueWall.Slade @ascent.bluewallgroup.com:8102: financial transactions should be too? [10:43] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Have anybody looked at that? [10:43] Crista Lopes: justincc has the war story about inventory over caps [10:43] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: as in 'war for linden' or 'war for opensim'? [10:44] Crista Lopes: war for opensim [10:44] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: okay? what is the problem? short story? [10:44] Crista Lopes: from what he described, the Lindens tried to do that, but it didn't work, so they went back to UDP [10:44] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: okay, I need to get that war story [10:44] Crista Lopes: but... [10:44] Crista Lopes: how about this. [10:45] Crista Lopes: anyone can throw UDP packets at the viewer if they know their Endpoint, yes? [10:45] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that we need to separate the cases a little bit - the case where the region is trying to 'give' you something, and the case where you 'create' something [10:45] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: hmmm [10:46] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: let me have a look [10:46] Crista Lopes: yes, those are two different things, but for the inventory perspective they are the same [10:47] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, they don't have to be [10:47]  Crista Lopes: right, we need to make them different [10:47] Crista Lopes: somehow [10:47] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: when the region tries to create something, that could be thought of the same thing as if anybody was trying to give you something. [10:47] Crista Lopes: but both end up putting stuff in your inventory [10:47] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes [10:47] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but the paths don't need to be the same [10:47] Crista Lopes: and that's what the inv server sees [10:47] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: when you create stuff, you could do that thru the web [10:48] Crista Lopes: yes, yo ucould [10:48] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I mean, you could give stuff to people thru the web as well [10:48] Crista Lopes: yes, yo ucould [10:48] Crista Lopes: there's a lot of stuff that we can do via a web interface [10:48] Crista Lopes: that's essentially creating a web-client for the inv server [10:48] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I would even go as far as to say that that ui could even be made even better than doing it thru 3D [10:48] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yup [10:48] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: And I think it's the way to go [10:48]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: make it a web2.0 json service [10:49] Crista Lopes: sigh. [10:49] Crista Lopes hates web programming [10:49] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: :] [10:49] Crista Lopes: :) [10:49]  Crista Lopes: but yes, we can definitely do that [10:49]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well. There a re more web programmers out there than 3D programmers [10:49]  Crista Lopes: true. I'm not one of them, in my natural state of mind [10:49]  Crista Lopes: :) [10:49] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Thing is, I think that would prepare us better for tomorrow, when the hevy client goes out the window [10:50] Crista Lopes: yes yo uare right [10:50] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: if we get a light-weight web-based client [10:50] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hell, I would make the facebook app [10:50] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that serves as my personal inventory [10:51] Crista Lopes: well, that's the part about how much we should use this viewer from here on, really [10:51] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: well, for as much as much as we can possible get for free, but not an ounce more [10:51] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: imnsho [10:51] Crista Lopes: so do yo uwant to take a bite at that web client Stefan? :D [10:51] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well yes, I could have a go [10:51]  Crista Lopes: THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC! [10:52] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I guess we just need to figure out a good starting proof [10:52] Crista Lopes: (my students are very scared when I use the word "fantastic" :-) [10:52] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: now is where I shoudl be scared? [10:52] Crista Lopes: nah, just joking. :-) [10:52] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think I actually have heard you say that on skype [10:52]  Crista Lopes: it just measn a lot of work for them :-) [10:52] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: didn't scare me. ;) [10:52] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: So, yeah, given we have that first conceptual web thing [10:53]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: what transaction wouldwe want to do there? [10:53]  Crista Lopes: we can start by viewing our inventory [10:53]  Crista Lopes: just browse [10:53]  Crista Lopes: then all the other actions can be added [10:53]  Crista Lopes: create items, delete items, copoy items, rename items, etc [10:54]  Crista Lopes: then the 3rd batch which has to do with stuff hapenning inworld [10:54]  Crista Lopes: give inventory for example [10:54]  Crista Lopes: take stuff to inventory [10:54]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hmmm. How can we launch a web viewer thru the client? [10:54]  Crista Lopes: press F1 [10:54]  Crista Lopes: or click this: http://google.com/ [10:54]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Ah yeah, of course [10:55]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: And that would take you to your 'home page' [10:55] Crista Lopes: yep [10:55] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: on the login service [10:55] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: when you logged on there, you would basically be forwarded to the inventory server [10:56] Crista Lopes: yes. and the user server will know where you are [10:56] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: we don't really have any security on the inventory servers, right? [10:56] Crista Lopes: inworld that is [10:56]  Crista Lopes: no, right now it's totally unprotected [10:56] Crista Lopes: just a sec [10:56] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: the client viewer sends headers on gets? [10:57] Crista Lopes: I think so [10:57]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yeah, well, I could start working on a very simple web ui right now, basically [10:57] Crista Lopes: oh yeah, and it may send the region info, although only in LL form [10:57] Crista Lopes: yes. [10:57] Crista Lopes: that would be really great [10:58] Crista Lopes: so basically we would ignore the inventory window of the LL viewer [10:58] Crista Lopes: and use the web [10:58] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: actually, I think it has still got its uses [10:58] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: if you think of it more as an ui that the REGION provides [10:58] Crista Lopes: right [10:59] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: you could think of the local inventory window as the regions inventory [10:59] Crista Lopes: yes, that's a good model [10:59] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: or rather, the regions inventory for that user [10:59] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: We could use it to have local library nodes [10:59] Crista Lopes: yes [10:59] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and of course, the user could have a 'public' node in it [10:59]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that any region could ask for, and get [11:00] Crista Lopes: yes. the suitcase [11:00] melanie_t joins #opensim-gateway7000 [11:00] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: exactly [11:00] Crista Lopes: I like it [11:00]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: so yeah, I think that those operations can probably be made thru that [11:00] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Also, the acts of dragging + dropping objects onto in-world objects [11:01] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: is really convenient [11:01] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and in your 'home' region, you could have an extra 'private' node [11:01] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: that was read+write [11:01] Crista Lopes: so in that case you'd have to synchronize the web interface with the viewer interface to inventory [11:01] Crista Lopes: I mean in foreign regions [11:02] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: How do you mean? [11:02] Crista Lopes: if you want to preserve that gesture of dragging stuff out of inventory [11:02] Crista Lopes: like here for example [11:02] Crista Lopes: you are here, it's not your home region [11:02] Crista Lopes: you want to drag something onto the ground [11:02] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that the public node would only ever be copy, in sl lingo [11:03] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: you would only copy it [11:03]  Crista Lopes: yes, but what if you want to rez something out of your inventory that is in your private folders? [11:03] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I'm a bit unsure as of how the viewer bahaves, but I think there is some perms combination that would do that? [11:03] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: ah, you can't [11:03]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: simply [11:04] Crista Lopes: ok, then scratch that synchronization I was talking about [11:04] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: then you would have to move it to the public node, thru the web ui [11:04]  Crista Lopes: yes, great [11:04] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: and of course, then you'd have to update the region [11:04] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but that's... future [11:04] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: So I think we have a list of items, don't we? [11:04] Crista Lopes: I think we have more than enough to start implementing :-) [11:04]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 1) the notion of a 'home' zone [11:05] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 2) Start working on a prototoype web inventory for 'out-world' acces [11:06]  Crista Lopes: yes [11:06]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 3) Creating a public node on hypergrid hosts, that can fetch a read-only copy of a 'public' node in a users inventory [11:06] Crista Lopes: for that we really need to redo how inventory is handled [11:06] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: 4) Allowing for 'home' regions to access all inventory fully [11:06]  Crista Lopes: yes [11:07]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Crista how do you mean? I must admit I'm a bit sketchy on the inner workings of inventory. [11:07]  Crista Lopes: well right now, inventory is always fetched from the inventory server onto the region everytime the avie moves [11:07]  Crista Lopes: the whols shebang of inventory [11:07]  Crista Lopes: well, at least the asset UUIDs [11:08]  Crista Lopes: the regions have all that info [11:08]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hm, I was kind of envisioning the regions providing some kind of authentication. [11:08]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: And the inventory server tailoring the response to that. [11:08]  Crista Lopes: yes, that's what I mean by having to change how things are done [11:08]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes [11:08] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: you're right, of course [11:09] Crista Lopes: ok, but authentication is something we need to inject in lots of places. I'm going to look into that next [11:09] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I think that this could actually very easy be adapted to one of the current use cases I have, where commercial Grid owners don't want certain content to be moved off their grid [11:09] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: in that case, it's just a case of locking content to the 'private' node [11:09] Crista Lopes: yes [11:09] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: or just not allowing them into the public' [11:09] Crista Lopes: yes [11:10] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: That would go a long way for hypergrid acceptance, I think, with the commercials [11:10] Crista Lopes: well, we definitely need to do those kinds of controls [11:10] Crista Lopes: user level and service provider level too [11:11] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: yes [11:11] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: but I think we have an action list [11:11] Crista Lopes: we do! :-) [11:11] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: how do we decide if this is the right way to go? [11:11]  Crista Lopes: and I need to run, I have student here [11:11]  Crista Lopes: how about sending a message to -dev? [11:11]  Crista Lopes: will yo udo that? [11:11]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Is there a kind of hypergrid sub-community anywhere? [11:11]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Sure [11:12]  Crista Lopes: no. I didn't want to segregate [11:12]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Well, that's probably wise [11:12]  Crista Lopes: it's all mixed together in -dev and -users [11:12]  Crista Lopes: ok, look forward to see your message [11:12]  Crista Lopes: I need to run [11:13]  Crista Lopes: bye! [11:13]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: Hm, one quick question, should the inventory ui be in the stadard service http servers, or should they be offloaded as web apps? [11:13]  Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: bye! [11:13] Crista Lopes: hmm, not sure... [11:13] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: I guess they should be standard [11:13] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: then at least, we have one language. ;) [11:14] Crista Lopes: I don't do web programming that much, so you will know that better than I :) [11:14] Crista Lopes: bye! [11:14] Stefan.Andersson @osgrid.org:8002: ya. Take care!