Chat log from the meeting on 2013-08-20

[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:08] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Waves at Dahilia [11:08] Teravus Ousley: hallo [11:08] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi tera [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:08] logger sewell: hey Justin [11:08] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: Hi Justing.. .:) [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: so.. whats going on ? [11:10] Dahlia Trimble: hi hi [11:10] logger sewell: hi Kayaker [11:10] Kayaker Magic: Hi Logger, nice turnout today! [11:10] logger sewell: looks like it will be [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I just sent out a group notice, we'll probably be getting that shortly [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: so, any opensim topics to discuss today? [11:11] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Can someone explain the difference between 0.7.6 Post Fixes and dev/master? [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: at the moment there is no difference, they are in sync [11:12] Kayaker Magic: I submited a new mantis about the returns from llGetRot, I'll go look up the number [11:12] FreyrOdin: i am in sync to [11:12] FreyrOdin: hi :) [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: but 0.7.6.-post-fixes will become the brnach for the next release of opensim. It's currently being used as the branch of code to ru nthe conference too [11:12] Petra Broek: huhu [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: and wich one you go use for the release ? [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: ? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ah I guess since were not running v2 groups here we wont get the notices from CC grid [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: bummer [11:13] Petra Broek: i german [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: that wont be as effective as I thought it would [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: oh well im sure some people will get it [11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Would it be possible to enable the use of unicode characters in the Profile Dialogue, 'About', this is a feature in SL [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: I am seeing myself as a GUN8 in chat [11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ? [11:14] FreyrOdin: Hallo Petra [11:14] Petra Broek: hallo frey.. [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: here? [11:14] FreyrOdin: ja, ich glaub wir sind uns schon mal über den Weg gelaufen [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: if your asking me yes here [11:14] FreyrOdin: and ... hi Andrew [11:14] Petra Broek: wer wir ? löl [11:14] Petra Broek: bestimmt [11:15] logger sewell: hi Andrew [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew [11:15] FreyrOdin: jupp ... zumindest dein Nick kommt mir bekannt vor [11:15] Kayaker Magic: Mantis # 6743, llGetRot returns the right thing in all condicions EXCEPT when in an attachment on a seated avatar [11:15] Petra Broek: hihi cool [11:15] FreyrOdin: Logger ... hi [11:15] Petra Broek: bin bekannt [11:15] Petra Broek: haha [11:15] Petra Broek: sehe aber dich nicht [11:15] logger sewell: hey freyr [11:15] Petra Broek: wolke [11:16] FreyrOdin: ist hier gerade Meeting? [11:16] Petra Broek: asooooooo [11:16] Kayaker Magic: Well, not all conditions, there is mantis # 5941 where llGetRot also returns the wrong value [11:16] FreyrOdin: watt, immernoch .. ok, nochn rebake [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: ok [11:16] Petra Broek: deswegen so voll [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I'm not sure what happened there - your name resolved correctly [11:16] Petra Broek: gibt es was neues [11:17] FreyrOdin: fragst du mich? [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya who knows probably from all the grid jumping i do [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: that's quite possible [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: there are 4 or 5 distinct grids im using lately [11:17] Richardus Raymaker: names are fine. but the clouds.... [11:17] FreyrOdin: Ich bin das gestern das erste mal seit langem wieder hier :) [11:17] Petra Broek: spricht ja keiner weiter deutsch [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it would be better for opensi to stop returning any data at all if it can't find the name [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: plus i logged into SL a few times past couple weeks [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: then that bad binding would not persist in cache [11:17] Petra Broek: asooo [11:18] FreyrOdin: Warst du gestern nicht auch auf der Party im Club? [11:18] Petra Broek: weis nichts wo [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally this meeting place would be a little distance from the main landing point ;) [11:18] FreyrOdin: auf SoundChaser [11:18] Kayaker Magic: Curiously, seated avatars are involved in both cases, so it might be related to mantis #6121 et. all. about seated avatars [11:18] Petra Broek: achso [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: I have 30 avatars logged into CC grid already [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: using Radegast all from 1 computer [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I will be filling up the empty slots with bots from my system today [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: radegast *does* share cache [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: from the memory left on machine i could easily run 60 viewers [11:19] Teravus Ousley: Anyone edit their terrain by hand recently? Notice improvements? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: ideally would have done more pre-testing but I wanted to get in the other features I needed [11:19] Vivian Klees: yes [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I have not tried it yet Teravus, but Fleep has [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and she said major improvement [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: nice [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hey, Richardus [11:20] Teravus Ousley: \o/ [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: nice one Teravus [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: 076PF when 076 hasn't event been released yet? I always find that way of doing things odd. [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: we have this debate every time [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: yup. :) [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haa [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we're bass akwards [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: although, I'm just commenting on it. Not debating it. [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: hey it could be worse we could be doing a release the same week DST changes [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm thinking about making it 0.8 but have not pulled the trigger yet [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I honestly don't want to deal with the extra confusion right now [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: all I know is I push to master, wherever it goes from there is justin's problem :P [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, why would that be worse? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: because then we could have 2 arguments simultaneously [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.8 would be nice [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so your thinking 0.8 for next release? [11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: a lot of improvements have gone in this round [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: or 0.8-dev next? [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I still don't get it, but not a problem. [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I'm thinking next release instead of 0.7.6 [11:23] Vivian Klees: ususally in most projects wouldn't 0.8 mean beta? [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ok [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: a lot of stuff has changed, including things like a changed teleport protocol [11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :D [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: the numbers are arbitrary up until 1.0 [11:23] Dahlia Trimble: is melanie still planning on a lot of "donations" after the next release? [11:23] Teravus Ousley: Wherever that news slide came from... they think that you like expensive cars [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yes Dahlia [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Vivian, the numbers don't always indicate alpha vs. beta.] [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I know shes itching to get vehicle border crossing in [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: before someone else attempts it [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: intresstin. 0.8 for next release. especialy when bullet get default [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: maybe how well they work might influence the next release? [11:25] Vivian Klees: when Bullet becomes default rip out the ode code [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: lets get 0.7.6 first as release :O [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think ODE will go away [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: why on earth would one want to do that? [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: I would be against that [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, I didn't meant it like that, bit stressed atm [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: no vivian, there are people that want ode. the say bullet works bad on there system cpu usage. well when o.87.6 is out bullet get deafult here [11:26] Vivian Klees: omg crossa a region running bullet and the other on ode [11:26] Robert Adams: I need vehicle crossing before the middle of September... I might make Melanie's life more difficult and start adding it [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie is just waiting on release Robert [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: please don't before the next release [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: she was asked not to submit it [11:26] Dahlia Trimble: why on earth would anyone take out ODE???? [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: well I understand vivians point [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: but what should happen is ODE should be improved [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: grin robert. i made a small post on mailinglist what where written on blog [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: make border crossing better [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: removing it is to extreme [11:27] Dahlia Trimble: I still use ODE on some sims [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: then make mega regions betetr nebadon [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: One needs ODE as a fallback for a long time [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason to not improve ODE still too [11:27] Robert Adams: ODE will always be there .... just like BasicPhysics :) [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect border crossing is not really a problem with ODE itself [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but other factors [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: the factors you cant fix [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: isn't melanie still using ODE anyway? [11:28] Robert Adams: most of the border crossing changes are in the simulator [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: yes they are using ODE in Avination [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: SL have still some crossing delay [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but i suspect she eventually wants to move to Bullet also [11:28] Teravus Ousley: Melanie has her own flavor of the ODEPlugin that ubit manages [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it sounds like a lot of changes to entity crossing [11:28] Robert Adams: the physics engine just needs to be unloaded and loaded [11:29] Robert Adams: should be able to cross between ODE and BulletSim regions [11:29] Dahlia Trimble: SL has terrible border crossings if you have a lot of scripted attachments [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: in sl the seems to unsit avatars, cross them to new sim and then resit. thats what i readed [11:29] Robert Adams: and that is how it will work in OpenSim [11:30] Robert Adams: that's the most general solution... other situations can be optimized as special cases [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: but.. you still have to 10-200ms network delay [11:30] Kayaker Magic: When that unseat happejns, with the changed link message be bypassed? [11:30] Robert Adams: yes Kayaker, that's one of the mods that has to happen... it isn't really an 'unsit' [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: well, for testing i can build as normal regions. switch it to mega to paly with verhicles. seems to work fine. and sofar i know the regions still are seperate ones with prims. [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: is it the case that telepoerting to a megaregions from a normal region is now broken with the latest code? [11:32] Richardus Raymaker: ??? i dont hope [11:32] Mindy.Star @92.243.26.0:8002: hello all [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: hi MindyStar [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: hello mindy [11:33] Shirley Marquez: hi, Mindy [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: someone retported that but i haven't tested after the most recent fixes yet [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: and tbh I didn't get a chance to test before either [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensmi topics? [11:35] Teravus Ousley: http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:35] Dahlia Trimble clicks... [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: not for now. working on tool for (my) opensim region. [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I would like to remind everyone we still need more Volunteers for the Community Conference [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey doesn't risk running flash because some stuff is starting to bluescreen him [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: so if your interested please let us know, and if you can spread the word [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: I really need to update from win xp... [11:36] Shirley Marquez: I'm already in, Nebadon :) [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, what sort of help is still needed? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: awesome Shirley! [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we need people to stream via UStream [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: omg, now i understand why you have soem problems justin [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: we need greeters and moderators [11:37] Shirley Marquez: OpenSim is still relatively new to me but I'm an SL expert, going to spend some time over here in the next few weeks to come up to speed [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, you're going to hit all the bugs ;) [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: that kayaker always reminds us about ;) (joking) [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2013/conference-planning-update-last-call-for-sponsors-volunteers-needed/ [11:37] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: no justing ..thats called creative workaround. [11:37] Armenious.Resident @awesimworlds.com:8002: lol [11:38] Shirley Marquez: I'm probably going to be moderating and/or greeting, so I need to get familiar with all the viewers people are likely to use [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: woohoo i got all 40 of my avatars logged into Keynotes [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: 10 per region [11:38] Shirley Marquez: especially Singularity - I haven't used a viewer with the V1 UI for ages [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: ssst nebadon, dont say it to load you can scare them away [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: shirley: It will be quite a wide variety - Singularity, Firestorm of course, but people are still using older ones like Imprudence [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: that's with radegast now? [11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think some people might even use hippo on occasion [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: 40 avatars from one person? :) [11:39] Shirley Marquez: and don't forget Kokua, though that should be easy enough for me since it's basically an LL viewer [11:39] Dahlia Trimble: if they use imprudence they wont see any of the regions because they are all mesh [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: i use kokua. but pretty can say. it sucks.. things are not logic to use, some weird things. and chui is disatser [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: good replacements for Imprudence are Singularity and Cool Viewer [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: then FS better choice [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: is there any mesh on the conference grid? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: a lot [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Keynotes are almost 100% mesh [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: id say like 95% [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: oh really? I didn't know that.... [11:41] Robert Adams: I need to find a way to merge Singularity and Firestorm... there are features in each that I like [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: is that for perf reasons? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: not really, its just fancier [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:41] Shirley Marquez: Richardus, I'm used to the LL viewer over in that other place, so Kokua won't throw me, and I actually like CHUI [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: much nicer quality stuff available with mesh [11:41] Shirley Marquez: no accounting for taste :) [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, so I guess we won't be seeing a lot of imprudence.... [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully not [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: id like to see Imprudence go away [11:41] Richardus Raymaker: i know people that still keep stuck on imprudence [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: most of the stuff in the keynotes could be made with prims and look the same [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear it still performs a lot better on older hardware [11:42] Dahlia Trimble: depends on the build [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i guess, Singularity should run just as well honestly [11:42] Vivian Klees: the only thing in imp worth keeping around is import/export [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: you might need to tone down the settings [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but you can make Singularity run as well as Imprudence [11:42] Shirley Marquez: the new rendering code leans a lot more heavily on OpenGL - so it's better if you've got the hardware, worse if you don't [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Vivian, same here. I haven't re-exported some things using Singularity yet. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: heck if you shut off all the fancy stuff V3 will run as good too [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats the only really good reason to keep Imprudence around [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: the vast amount of exported XML [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: is there really that much? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but as far as an everyday use viewer it needs to go away [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: opensim-creations has a ton [11:43] Vivian Klees: well exporting collada from singularity is nice [11:43] Teravus Ousley: They shouldda used OpenSim Archives :) [11:43] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya problem is [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Too bad the XML formats weren't the same. So much for XML being some sort of "universal" data format. [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: not everyone has access to a region console [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: ease of use is a seductive thing [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: hence the popularity of XML [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: ewwww XML [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: *blech* [11:44] Kayaker Magic: LOL [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, I often feel that way. [11:44] Teravus Ousley: To be clear, Imprudence should have used OpenSim Archives for import/export :) [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: u never good really good results with xml with textures. it works fine to export balnk thing to sl to mesh it :O [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: yes that would be awesome [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i can tell you the next Diva Wifi release [11:44] Shirley Marquez: were they available yet when they did the implementation, Teravus? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: will have the ability to uploads IARs via the website [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: well, IARs maybe, but they weren't available nack in that time frame afair [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: so that will be a big boost for people running their own mini grids [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and even medium size grids running wifi [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: and there's a lot of bizarre arbitrary opensim-ness within the data formats [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: next release I want to make the built-in de-duping asset store the standard [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: nice [11:46] Teravus Ousley: So now, there's arbitrary opensim-ness and arbitrary imprudence-ness :) [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I've been using it for a long time with no issues, though not very heavily I admit [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: heh yes [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: that means no double assets anymore ? and does that remove doubles to ? [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: effectively, doubles are removed over time [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: thats very nice tool [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: with the deduping asset store, it's possible to chain the old asset store [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: that would be nice to have. [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that one is saving the data to the database? [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: so when old assets are retrieved which aren't yet in the deduped store, they are migrated to the deduping store at that poitn [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes, still [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: good [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: and i heared soem cracking about going up with next round to new .net ? [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I don't see how we could beat the database experts at store - retrieve performance [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm, not the latest [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, next release will see an update to min version of mono, which effectively implies updating the .net [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, will that be a system similar to the Ruby system (can't remember its name) and/or the one I was working on? [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: move from 3.5 to 4.0 [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: but not the latest .net [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: finaly [11:48] Shirley Marquez: if you ever did you should go into the database business, more money there :) [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: it's similar but not meant to be as featurefull as sras. It's meant as a good basic default option [11:48] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol [11:49] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ellisim [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, ok. Perhaps more like what I was working on. [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I've read a lot on the debate between storing on filesystem vs database for big blobgs and there doesn't seem to be adefinitive solution [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: or conclusion [11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: there was a streaming adapter for a while, but is gone now... [11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it was in MariaDB [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be nice to have deduping regardless of whether you still store blobs in the DB or on the file system. [11:50] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that would probably help a lot. [11:50] Teravus Ousley has met several DB people who hate it when devs store images in db :) [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: there are some fancy filesystems which do deduping automatically, though I haven't investigated closely [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Teravus, I bet you can find other DB admins that might say the opposite. :) [11:51] Teravus Ousley: So far, no. :) [11:51] Teravus Ousley: but It's a small sample [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: they would have a fit if they knew what we did :) [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: Teravus if you store blobs in seperate database its more easy to backup. :) and my feeling say .. fatser then dig into 50.000 images on hdd [11:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hah [11:52] Richardus Raymaker: but seperate tetxures on disk have other good things to [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: 61 [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: oops [11:52] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 42 [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: any truth to the rumour that modifying a notecard or script always saves a new asset to the db? [11:53] Teravus Ousley: The counter to that, naturally, is that there's an extensive amount of CPU, IO and network bandwidth wasted querying a database for an image [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [11:53] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it creates a new asset [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't that a waste? [11:54] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: hi everybody [11:54] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not i fyou have just given a copy to another user before modifying it [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: hello Fearghus [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: You would wind up with lots of dead copies of NC's/scripts in the db no one is using. [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: in sl it created a new notecard / scipt. i understand from question in the past the opensim is not doing that [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: hi fearghus [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: in principle, it should be possible to reap very dead data from the asset db using timestamps [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: What if I create a script, then modify it? If I'm the only one who has it, it doesn't make sense to make a new asset. [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew. how many dead things you think osgrid have in database [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: so if something hasn't been accessed for more than 2 years, one could risk reaping it [11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Mic made something like that didn't he Robert? [11:55] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         23ca1f8: 2013-08-09 18:27:26 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks doesn't remember if there are timestamps in the db to indicate when an asset was last accessed. [11:56] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: not accessed....means every time an inventory loads all assets for that are accessed so resetting the timestamp? [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: not every time, but if a certain time has passed, e.g. a month [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: there's no point incurring the code of updating the database on every single asset access [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: we already have 63 avatars in the load test [11:57] Shirley Marquez: they're about to do a load test for OSCC, I'm going to jump over there [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: also, that assumes it isn't served by the region's local asset cache first [11:57] Richardus Raymaker: and what about objects you dont kepe in inventory because reasons but on sim (no copy) [11:57] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: ah ok i get it, makes sense [11:57] Teravus Ousley: well, if we're talking about assets now... [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: cost,. not code [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: knew that was what you meant justin [11:57] Teravus Ousley: Why not simply implement a reference counter estimation... [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: shirley: yeah. will go over very shortly [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: ter: ref counter estimation? [11:58] Teravus Ousley: Like.. some data is sent to the asset server to test if it's a new reference for something in world [11:58] Teravus Ousley: ..If it is, increment an int on the asset [11:58] Teravus Ousley: when it gets deleted.... decrement an int on the asset [11:58] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: foreign keys? [11:59] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: btw....ok to ask about a possible tp issue when we're on the load test regions?...not want to disturb the asset talk now ;) [11:59] Teravus Ousley: It gives an estimation of how many references are left in world.... giving you a good idea of what the risk of deleting something is. [11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: sure, though I personally will be very busy monitoring the regions [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, time to go? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya lets do this [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: already quite a crowd over there [12:00] Teravus Ousley: Seems like it. Just wanted to plant that reference counter idea in your head [12:00] Fearghus.McMahon @hg.osgrid.org: thats ok justin I have no rush with it ;) [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: if you throw the slurl [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: taking a long time to TP from my dev grid [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 4 [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: any of those regions [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: fearghus: I would like to know sometime because teleport issues needed to be fixed before the release occurs [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: did fix some issues last week but there could well be more [12:01] Second Life: Region found! [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, there we go