Chat log from the meeting on 2021-11-09

 [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I see Ubit is at one of the other tables enjoying a tasty beverage today. [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Kayaker [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker. [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Hi Gavin, Andrew. [11:04] Kayaker Magic whispers: And Shelby! [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Selby [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. [11:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everyone [11:04] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit. [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Evening [11:05] Ubit Umarov: did hour change in usa also? [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure did [11:05] Kayaker Magic: Yes, Daylight Wasting time. [11:05] Ubit Umarov: wel so we are back in tune [11:06] Ubit Umarov: well for a non flat earth [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yes. The clocks changed this past weekend in North America. [11:06] Ubit Umarov: so what is new on opensim? [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: You are all on the ball this time. We didn't lose anyone or have someone show up early. Usually someone gets caught out with the change to the clocks. [11:07] Jagga Meredith: I mentioned open simulator on Michael Smerconish show this morning [11:07] Ubit Umarov: michael who» [11:07] Ubit Umarov: ? [11:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: who's that? [11:07] Jagga Meredith: CNN news guy, has program on SiriusXM [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Nothing to report regarding changes to the Open Sim code base. Just a couple of commits mentioning they were safeguards. [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Don't watch CNN... [11:08] Ubit Umarov: Michael A. Smerconish is an American radio host and television presenter, political commentator, newspaper columnist, author, and lawyer. Wikipedia [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I don't watch CNN or get SiriusXM [11:08] Ubit Umarov: this one? [11:08] Jagga Meredith: yep [11:08] Ubit Umarov: ok [11:08] Kayaker Magic: How does OpenSim come up in a news show in RL? [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, was it a call in program? How did you get to mention Open Sim? [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Meta [11:09] Ubit Umarov: told we are better than zuck meta? [11:09] Jagga Meredith: yes, call in program. I was countering Zukerbucks [11:09] Jagga Meredith: exactly [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: great [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The comments on ARS has not exaclty been favorable [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for Meta that is [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: excellent, Jagga. [11:10] Ubit Umarov: well fear zuck reachs a audience that possible never new abotu SL, opensim, sansar, space, etc [11:10] Ubit Umarov: so may think its a brave new zuck creation [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: more creepy than brave is my impression of what people think [11:11] Ubit Umarov: wonder if Maria managed to get that fs fork to work on zuck Oculus Quest [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did she fork it? [11:12] Ubit Umarov: joker :P [11:12] Ubit Umarov: someone did adding 3d oculus support [11:12] Kayaker Magic: It was called the ctrl-alt-del fork, wasnt it? And not done by Maria. [11:13] Ubit Umarov: ai austin tells abotu it on his blog [11:13] Kayaker Magic: I hear it is way out of date with current FS [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it constanty rebooted? [11:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Zuck does reach a naive audience but lots of others are also talking to that audience [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: isn't that what ctrl-alt-del is for? [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:14] Ubit Umarov: well fear it is not a easy and reliable thing to use.. but well does show things on those googles [11:15] Ubit Umarov: https://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/ [11:15] Ubit Umarov: that is ai blog [11:15] Ubit Umarov: https://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/2020/12/11/firestorm-vr-mod-6-4-12/ [11:15] Ubit Umarov: seems up to date to fs, somehow [11:16] Ubit Umarov: well mentioning bc addign 3d VR things is a viewer side thing and kinda possible [11:17] Ubit Umarov: not that i particulary want to use such things :) [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL thinks it is not possible for the currrent renderer to generate the required FPS to avoid sea-sickness [11:18] Ubit Umarov: yeah it is far from it [11:19] Ubit Umarov: industry kinda wants at least 90fps [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: 90?? [11:19] Ubit Umarov: yeap [11:19] Ubit Umarov: even with so, still a lot of issues [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually 90x2 [11:19] Ubit Umarov: ppl can't stand them ofr 2 long [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: slighty different frames per eye [11:20] Ubit Umarov: reasons why Phil killed his high fidelity project [11:20] Ubit Umarov: if i remember.. [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that should be correct [11:20] Ubit Umarov: wel industry does use them and for a long time [11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably why sansar was killed too [11:21] Ubit Umarov: if i remember Catia has 3d visualization for ages [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: gosh [11:21] Ubit Umarov: ( catia is a industrial CAD etc ) [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Catia workstations... [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: used to sell them for a fortune [11:22] Ubit Umarov: think Catia costs a fortune still :) [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I bet [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most likely the license is the most costly these days [11:23] Ubit Umarov: created by dassault to make mirages? :) [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and IBM salesmen rich [11:23] Ubit Umarov: wel and other industrial CAD and integrated things have 3d view since ages.. [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think the original Catia ran on IBM mainframes [11:24] Ubit Umarov: thing their glasses do not cost $300 like oculus quest does :p [11:24] Ubit Umarov: think... [11:25] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: I love the quest [11:25] Ubit Umarov: but for opensim, viewers need some magic to get close to the 90fps [11:25] Ubit Umarov: and ppl to get rtx 3090's :p [11:26] Ubit Umarov: well correctly ll keeps a eye on real hardware real people has [11:27] Ubit Umarov: that includes little integrated gpus [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It did originate on the IBM System/370 mainframe [11:27] Kayaker Magic: Question about how assets are stored: I heard here that mesh are stored as LLM files. When I look at the LLM file format, it allows only 2 bone weights per vertex, when I thought mesh in OpenSim can have up to 4 bones per vertex. If so, you cannot use LLM. How are mesh stored in the asset database? [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Best I've ever gotten was about 60FPS with an older Nvidia 8600GT card. Once you start moving around the view is changing a lot the frame rate always drops. I don't know what it would take to get 90 or 90x2 to use a headset. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: back then guess those IBMs where the best option :) [11:28] Ubit Umarov: fps does ofc depend on region contents [11:28] Ubit Umarov: im getting 60 here [11:28] Ubit Umarov: actually limited [11:28] Ubit Umarov: i do limit the fps to 60 [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, good old IBM Systems 360 and 370. That brings back memories. [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Just sitting here I'm getting about 40. [11:29] Ubit Umarov: well but it is not the limit, it is what  i can get here :) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: i had the limit to 65 [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am only getting 26 FPS, but it renders at 4x normal resolution because of the Retina display [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is rendering at 3360 x 2088 resolution [11:31] Jagga Meredith: Kayaker had a question. I've got one too [11:31] Ubit Umarov: well just mention that goggles things, because it is a viewers side thing [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I thought LLM was just for avatar bodies but I haven't looked at how the data is stored. [11:31] Ubit Umarov: both SL and opensim servers can service that kinf od viewers [11:32] Ubit Umarov: ( fun how my f and d got so appart ) [11:32] Ubit Umarov: (kinf od == kind of) [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, are you working on something to do with a mesh based avatar or on some other mesh based object? [11:33] Ubit Umarov: llm? [11:33] Ubit Umarov: the system avatar files? [11:33] Kayaker Magic: I wrote some code to dump LLM files of the system avatars, wrote some code to create new ones. Yeah, OK for the default avatars it should not work on mesh avatars or animesh. So the question stands: How are mesh avatars and animesh stored in the assets? [11:34] Ubit Umarov: we had partial dump code on libopenmetaverse [11:34] Ubit Umarov: just no suport for the morphs [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is stored liek any other mesh [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, are Collada mesh stored as is on upload or they converted to some other format? [11:34] Ubit Umarov: hmmm it is ll format [11:35] Ubit Umarov: no [11:35] Ubit Umarov: in fact seems collada does not support all the needed things [11:35] Kayaker Magic: OK, how is any otheer mesh stored? What format? I was told they are converted to LLM. That cannot be true for animesh. [11:35] Ubit Umarov whispers: what the relation to animesh? [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why can it not be true? [11:35] Ubit Umarov: viewers know how to read and use those files [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: animehs is just a flag on the mesh when read back from the server [11:36] Ubit Umarov: that where made exclusively as local viewer things [11:36] Kayaker Magic: Animesh is a mesh that has an armature and weights. Before animesh only mesh avatars had those. [11:37] Kayaker Magic: So answer this question: How is the Ruth/Roth mesh avatars stored in the assets? [11:37] Ubit Umarov: well it is kinda the oposite logic: only mesh avatars can be animesh [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: flag that tells the viewer to start treating the mesh different [11:37] Ubit Umarov: system avatars ARE not stored on assets [11:37] Ubit Umarov: they are local to viewers [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you set the flag yourself after uploading a rigged mesh [11:37] Kayaker Magic whispers: Ruth is not a system avatar. Answer the question: How is is stored in the assets? [11:37] Ubit Umarov: what ruth? [11:38] Kayaker Magic: Ruth is a mesh avatar available for free. [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ruth IS the system avatar [11:38] Ubit Umarov: some do call ruth to system avatar [11:38] Kayaker Magic: Ruth2.0 is an open-source mesh avatar. [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that someone has called a mesh avatar the same is misleading [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: There are new mesh based Ruth and Roth avatars. [11:38] Ubit Umarov: that is a MESH like other mesh avatars [11:38] Kayaker Magic: Sort of like Athena but with about 300,000 fewer vertexes. [11:38] Ubit Umarov: no relation to system avatar [11:39] Kayaker Magic: I know. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: just another model of mesh avatar [11:39] Kayaker Magic: How are non-system mesh avatars stored????? [11:39] Kayaker Magic: As XML? [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as any mesh you upload [11:39] Kayaker Magic: As LLM? [11:39] Ubit Umarov: no [11:39] Ubit Umarov: as mesh assets [11:39] Kayaker Magic: As DAE [11:39] Ubit Umarov whispers: NO [11:39] Kayaker Magic: Ok, how are mesh assets stored? [11:39] Ubit Umarov: DAE is only the format viewers understand to import anc covert [11:40] Kayaker Magic: Why is this so hard to get an answer? [11:40] Ubit Umarov: mesh are stored in another ll asset format [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as a binary compressed ll format [11:40] Ubit Umarov: not hard, i told that several times [11:40] Kayaker Magic: It is an LL specific binary or text format? [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: binary [11:40] Kayaker Magic: where is the documentation on how to read it? [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In the viewer code [11:41] Ubit Umarov: in fact ll has the format public, unlike others [11:41] Ubit Umarov: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Mesh_Asset_Format [11:41] Kayaker Magic: I foundd the documentation for LLM, it is not capable of storing mesh avatars. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: again llm is a local viewers format only [11:42] Kayaker Magic: OK, that document looks promicing. Thank you! [11:42] Ubit Umarov: so called mesh for prims ( that includes a avatar mesh) are imported by viewers from collada and converted to that format on that link above [11:43] Ubit Umarov: and that format has no use for you [11:43] Ubit Umarov: unless you plan to make a totally new mesh uploader [11:43] Kayaker Magic: You cannot know that. [11:43] Ubit Umarov: kinda can :) [11:44] Ubit Umarov: but several things on it do help understand some limitations [11:44] Kayaker Magic: Here is one use: I want to make a mesh reader that calculates a hash of the vertex data in the assets, for comparison against the vertex data in a DAE. For detecting copyright violations. [11:45] Ubit Umarov: not that clear elsewhere, like the 16bits resolution [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: If you know the format of how the mesh data is stored in the asset table then it would be possible to do something with it. [11:45] Ubit Umarov: that hash is 100% useless [11:45] Ubit Umarov: but well not going there again [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Trying to pull an Apple photo scanner on the opensim data? [11:46] Jagga Meredith: what table is group name stored in? where is this documented?    It's not here http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Database:Documentation [11:46] Kayaker Magic: Photos are a different issue. [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not really Kayaker [11:47] Ubit Umarov: what group name? [11:47] Ubit Umarov: and we have like 3 groups modules, 2 usable [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: another thing is that there is not a one to one relation between the dae and what is stored [11:47] Ubit Umarov: each with own dbs [11:47] Jagga Meredith: the one with UUID in land table [11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the dae is transformed in all kinds of ways depending on the upload settings the uploader chose [11:48] Jagga Meredith: for group owned land [11:48] Ubit Umarov: land group uuid is stored on parcels data [11:48] Jagga Meredith: ok, and name? [11:48] Ubit Umarov: DAE is just a import format [11:48] Ubit Umarov: could be FBX [11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes it is [11:49] Ubit Umarov: and it is nto just because it had rights [11:49] Ubit Umarov: and no viewer dev did care to do suck importer [11:49] Ubit Umarov: ( ofc a "fun" project ) [11:49] Ubit Umarov: (suck == such ) [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, There are several tables for groups. If you are using core groups the group names are in os_groups_groups. If you are using the phpxmlrpc based group system it is osgroup. [11:50] Ubit Umarov: not sure how fbx rights are now.. used to be restricted [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably restrictions on the most up to date FBX versions [11:51] Jagga Meredith: andrew, those are tables? [11:52] Kayaker Magic: When you write an FBX importer for the viewer Ubit, I will be impressed. Until then, it is of no relevance. [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, yes. [11:52] Jagga Meredith: ok [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I use the phpxmlrpc groups system so I have the set of groups tables in a separate database. If you are using core groups the tables will be in with the main opensim tables, AFAIK. [11:53] Ubit Umarov: wel nothing special [11:53] Ubit Umarov: DAE was another ll fail [11:53] Ubit Umarov: like jpeg2000 [11:53] Ubit Umarov: they did bet those would be industrial standards [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: still a relatively successful fail [11:54] Ubit Umarov: and they failed to bo that... no one uses them [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I would have liked some format other than DAE as my main 3d modelling program doesn't support it. I have to export then import to Blender to convert to DAE. [11:54] Ubit Umarov: fbx and jpeg did turn out as the standards on those things [11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can't wait to see what formats Meta will use... [11:55] Ubit Umarov: but well we can't blame decisions back in 2003 or so [11:55] Ubit Umarov: guess fbx was not a thing back then.. at least open to use [11:55] Kayaker Magic: Jagga, did you get your question answered? [11:55] Jagga Meredith: yep [11:55] Ubit Umarov: but collada has limitations [11:56] Ubit Umarov: as you found kayaker [11:56] Kayaker Magic: Then my next question is: Looking at the OpenSim robust database, I see a table named userdata that looks like a key=value store for avatars. But it looks unused. Is there code anywhere to set that up? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: ( and insane xml crap ) [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In 1996, Kaydara released a new native file format with Filmbox 1.5 called FBX [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: In 2003, Kaydara launched FBX for Apple's QuickTime Viewer. [11:57] Ubit Umarov: ok so fbx was around [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:57] Ubit Umarov: but think you did need to pay rights [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you bet [11:57] Ubit Umarov: like jpeg etc [11:57] Ubit Umarov: not free to use things [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, userdata? I don't see a table with that name in my databases. [11:58] Ubit Umarov: mpeg etc [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apple is paying a shitload of licenses for all kinds of formats supported by their SDKs. But obviously not extended to otehr platforms, [11:59] Kayaker Magic: Last time I created a grid, the Robust database came with a table named 'userdata' (also userpicks, userprofile, usersettings, etc.) [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, checking the migration files that was created in version 5 of the core(?) user profiles system. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: i see no table called user data [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a full grid has userdata table [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a osg connect does not [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not using core profiles so I don't have that table. [12:00] Ubit Umarov: ohh ok it is there on profiles [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as osg is hosting that table [12:01] Kayaker Magic: 'userdata' one word, right before 'usernotes' which does seem to have data from the user profile in-world [12:01] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, all robust data in OSG is on their servers, but if you create a logal grid, you get your own Robust database. [12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it does not have any records though on my grid, so [12:02] Kayaker Magic: Same here [12:02] Kayaker Magic: I wondered if I could use it to impliment a key-value store for my users. [12:02] Kayaker Magic: Even add an OSSL function to do that. [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: judging from the filed names, possibly [12:03] Ubit Umarov: mb a feature imported from avn with no use [12:03] Kayaker Magic: But since the table is there, I wondered if somebody already did that. [12:03] Kayaker Magic: Some module for it? [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I see lots of references to that table in Region/CoreModules/Framework/UserManagement/UserManagementModule.cs [12:04] Ubit Umarov: nopes 0.8.2 already had it [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it looks like an intention [12:06] Kayaker Magic: Ick, I guess I'll try to read that module code. [12:07] Kayaker Magic: (RTFC: Read The Fing Code, instead of RTFM) [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just looking at it. I can't really tell if/how it is being used. [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: One field is HasGridUserTried. No idea what that is. [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It probalby was intended to be used in some clever way, but was forgotten [12:08] Kayaker Magic: Clever! [12:08] Ubit Umarov: yeah sounds like a "clever" very low performance thing [12:08] Ubit Umarov: hope we do not really use it [12:08] Kayaker Magic: I've missed a few meetings, I have lots of questions today! Next one: Is there a way to turn animesh on and off? Like there is for ''phantom' and 'physics', etc. ?? [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is a switch in the viewer [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: under Features tab in tools floater [12:09] Kayaker Magic: Is there a way to do it from a script, like 'phantom' and 'phyics' etc. ? [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you check if there is a lsl function that covers that? [12:10] Ubit Umarov: just do not play any animation on it [12:11] Kayaker Magic: I thought it should be in llSetStatus or similar functions, but there are no new constants. [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I find no mention of any LSL function with the word "mesh" in it. [12:11] Ubit Umarov: and why such a thing? [12:11] Kayaker Magic: I'd like to have a script remember to turn it on for me when I forget, like people do with physics in vehicles. [12:11] Kayaker Magic: I'd like to see if I can work around some viewer bugs by turning it on andd off. [12:11] Ubit Umarov: pysics is to safe cpu when not needed [12:12] Ubit Umarov: physics.. [12:12] Kayaker Magic: Turning it off and on on region crossing for example. [12:12] Ubit Umarov: that would not save any cpu [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't see any way to control animation for mesh under primitive param settings. [12:13] Ubit Umarov: and no idea what impact of changing that flag on viewers all the time [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I only did a quick search so I might have missed it or it is hidden somewhere else in the LSL functions. [12:13] Kayaker Magic: I can't find it either... :( [12:13] Ubit Umarov: think just never considered, bc not useful [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Perhaps we need an os function to do that. [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks looks at Ubit [12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlStartObjectAnimation [12:14] Kayaker Magic: That requires you set the bit first, only available in the viewer. [12:15] Kayaker Magic: It does nothing if you forgot. [12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, well, it is part of preparing the animesh [12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it should not be a massive burden [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that looks like it might be what Kayaker wants. Easy to find when you know the name of what you are looking for. ;) [12:15] Ubit Umarov: if and when you show me how such flag change could be useful, i will add it :p [12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I just duckduckent for it [12:15] Kayaker Magic: More and more, I'm finding animesh to be yet another big kludge by LL, hacked onto things done before instead of designed. [12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: duckduckwent* [12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. I was looking at the list of LSL functions in the wiki. [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what took you so long to realize Kayaker [12:16] Kayaker Magic: LOL [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was pretty clear as it was developed :-) [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Before everyone starts disappearing I do have one announcement to make. [12:17] Ubit Umarov: i do not see much relation with start animation and change the animesh object flag, but ok [12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess you cannot change it from a script intentionally [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Mark your calendars for the weekend of December 11 and 12. Those are the dates for this years Open Simulator Community Conference. Details can be found at https://conference.opensimulator.org/ [12:17] Ubit Umarov: ahh a big reason .. [12:18] Ubit Umarov: region has no idea if a mesh can have it on [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wouldn't that be fun if you could just change any mesh that happened to contain an animation (such as a vendor) into an animesh? [12:18] Ubit Umarov: and having the region to fetch the asset, decode it and see if it can be a animesh thing, ofc is a NO NO [12:19] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: i'm going to step out, good meeting thanks all [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Jamie. Thanks for coming. [12:19] Ubit Umarov: thx andrew [12:20] Ubit Umarov: it is again time for oscc.. jezz time flies [12:20] Ubit Umarov: got your answer on why not mess with that flag with scripts kayaker ? [12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: New viewer version was posted at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlStartObjectAnimation a few days back [12:21] Ubit Umarov: it is a building thing to define after upload [12:21] Kayaker Magic: No, but I assumed it was hidden in the viewer ayway [12:21] Kayaker Magic: So is physics [12:21] Kayaker Magic: So is phantom [12:21] Kayaker Magic: So are lots of things [12:21] Ubit Umarov: no it is NOT [12:21] Ubit Umarov: very diferent things [12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hidden in the viewer? [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer does not run scripts [12:22] Kayaker Magic: The viewer has a button for changing animesh on/off. [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the server does [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, yea. It soon comes around. Not being able to go any where or do much of anything makes time seem to hide the passage of time. :) [12:22] Ubit Umarov: and most of those should also stay still predeifned.. but are actually lighter than than flag [12:22] Kayaker Magic: However the viewer does it might be related to how a scrtipt can o it. [12:23] Ubit Umarov: kay the mesh needs to have somethings before that flag is allowed [12:23] Kayaker Magic: I'm resisting asking more questions, given the time. [12:23] Ubit Umarov: and i say again, regins can't not go check that on the mesh asset [12:24] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: must go -- bye all [12:24] Ubit Umarov: physics and phanton should also not be changed all the time [12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye Selby [12:24] Kayaker Magic: Bye Selby! [12:24] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans [12:25] Ubit Umarov: they can be very heavy also ofc [12:25] Kayaker Magic: Poof, he was gone already [12:25] Ubit Umarov: even so lighter than parse the mesh [12:26] Ubit Umarov: in future opensim should full parse and validate meshes for several uses [12:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I will need to be going in about another five minutes or so. [12:26] Ubit Umarov: the original opensim idea of just trust viewers is ofc BAD [12:27] Ubit Umarov: just makes life a lot simpler :) [12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:27] Ubit Umarov: specially when opensim devs have no idea of things details ;) [12:28] Ubit Umarov: but that is also the kinda of work no one considers.. totally invisible.. [12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Did you make your announcement Andrew? [12:29] Ubit Umarov: he did lol [12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh [12:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I announced the date for this years OSCC. [12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: December 11 and 12. [12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I said last year, the timing is not ideal in the middle of Christmas preparations [12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: What preparations? [12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all kinds of RL activities going on all od December [12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: including pre Christmas parties [12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: The one thing that is also on (soon?) is Black Friday and Cyber Monday. [12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: making food, brewing beer, tasting beer, shopping, planning, decorating.... [12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: showeling snow [12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I forgot that [12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: meh. Not much happening at my house. A few eCards to send out and buy/wrap a few presents for family. [12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did I mention shoveling snow? [12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to get going. [12:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll close the meeting for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.