Chat log from the meeting on 2012-07-24

[11:05] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         892dd59: 2012-07-23 16:38:31 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:05] xstorm Radek: i must say i have picked on Oz linden a bit do to some of the openend codes they let in [11:05] Armin Weatherwax: is client tags for anything good but for colors? [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:05] Armin Weatherwax: hi Justin :) [11:05] Sarah Kline: HI Justin [11:05] Bea Witched: hello Justin [11:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:05] Frank Northmead: Hello Justin ? [11:05] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin all [11:05] xstorm Radek: tags can be used in many ways [11:05] Bea Witched: hello Blue [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Bea [11:06] Sarah Kline: good for starting viewer arguments Armin [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:06] Joe Radik: Hello everybody [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hey Joe [11:06] Bea Witched: hello Joe [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: hello Joe [11:06] xstorm Radek: hi blue [11:06] Sarah Kline: hi Blue [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi xstorm [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Sarah [11:06] Armin Weatherwax: hi Blue :) [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Armin [11:06] xstorm Radek: gives sara a hug [11:07] Robert Adams: Firestorm lets you turn on viewer tags everywhere but in SL [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: they still work in opensim? [11:07] Bea Witched: yes [11:07] xstorm Radek: yes they have stop some of that in sl [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I see tags [11:07] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:07] Frank Northmead: Hello Dahlia ? [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Armin... [11:07] Bea Witched: hello Dahlia [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: I Don't see any tags using Zen viewer, and I dont think there is any option to turn on tag viewing in this veiwer either [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: If you are in Linux, try to go to the OSG5B North region [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it is all mesh [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see if everything loads for you [11:08] xstorm Radek: Neb ,,,,hack hack lol [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it seems that all V3 Linux viewers choke on heavy mesh content [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya seems like something wierd happens with mesh viewer in linux, i tested it too [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: though my linux machine is super slow, not the best test box [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: hi neb [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: armin: heh, itneresting [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I had frames at 43+ [11:09] xstorm Radek: i am on Ubuntu at this time testing [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, the content wound't come [11:09] Armin Weatherwax: maybe it would be better just to expose a color instead the client [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some viewers if i recall Armin let you customize the color [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm on Windows today [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: even waiting for 30+ minutes [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: so thats not all that reliable I recall [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: I updated this sim right before meeting to master git [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: wanted to see if melanies memory fixes had any impact here [11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I hope the paranoia subsides and the region owners will stop banning Teapot... [11:11] Armin Weatherwax: the color is decided from the uuid of the face 0 of the avatar - SL overrides that [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: looks good so far [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: a 5 min job turned into 30 because of that this weekend [11:11] Armin Weatherwax: (or rather the client) [11:11] xstorm Radek: Neb have you seen any errors with Hypergrid and UUID calls over it ? [11:11] hippie balbozar: works good for me [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya I can't imagine a lot of regions have it banned BlueWall [11:12] hippie balbozar: you try with teapot? [11:12] Frank Northmead: xstorm - what kind of errors? [11:12] Sarah Kline: just close encounter [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: and singularity [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: Xstorm, i have not noticed anything specifically [11:12] hippie balbozar: yep and zen [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: heh our plaza logs zoom by so fast though and are so large [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: they are almost useless [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: need a console separate from the 'logging' console really [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cat ~/bin/OpenSim.log|less [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure what state the "RestConsole" is in right now [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: well ya its no problem looking at the logs if your looking for something specific [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that is ok, but it hangs on help [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: but just watchin the console and looking for obscure things [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: its quite difficult [11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 3if you type help, you have to kill that console and open a new one [11:13] Robert Adams: you can set up the .config file to have warn to the console and DEBUG to the log file [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: also [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: cant console logging be set separately from file logging? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: most of our plazas are set to INFO [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes Dahlia [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: because DEBUG is just sooo much [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it actually impacts sim performance [11:14] xstorm Radek: i have been looking at cross errors do to size and timeouts of data then there are UUID 0's errors too seen that bug in sl do not need dirty codes in sl [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: help hangs the console?? [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it hangs the REST console [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: you cna set console and OpenSim.log levels separately [11:14] xstorm Radek: opensim needs to be better [11:14] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it is something with the server side, looks like [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: oh right - has that always been like that or is that since I changed the help system [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: xstorm: heh [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: amazingly memory has not gone much above 650mb here at this meeting today [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats really good [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are you using the code with melanie's changes? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: cool [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i updated about 20 minutes before meeting [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: wanted to see if anything improved [11:15] xstorm Radek: hi Justin ? [11:15] xstorm Radek: ? [11:15] xstorm Radek: damn [11:15] Richardus Raymaker: oh about memory, why is windows opensim useing so extreme more memory comparted to linux, and appdomain = false [11:15] xstorm Radek: ignore that lol [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: heh be nearly impossible for us to speculate on that Richardus [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: well, no, OPenSim certainly needs to be better but that's kind of a truism :) [11:16] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cpu useage on these new patches looks better [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: this region is using 39% of 1 core [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: of quad core [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: its shame opensim seems to crash if it s unning at max memory [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: well, the other day I tried sgen on opensim 2.10.8.1 [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: which is the other mono garbage collector, that should very probably perform better [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: i tried sgen here at Wright Plaza on mono 2.10.8 [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: it ran fine with quite a heavy region but then crashed 2 hours later with no avatars in there at all [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: which was very disappoingint [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: region gets about 50% loaded and crashed [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: native crash somewhere in mono=-sgen [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: 50% of scripts starting [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: mono have a fall 2012 plan for the next release [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we should bump the compile target to 4.0 and the minimum version to 2.8 [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I think sgen could really help with our current gc issues [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: thats if OpenSim even runs at all [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: right now OpenSim doesnt run on 2.11 alpha [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: or on Git Master mono [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: any thoughts on that? [11:18] xstorm Radek: / ?? with no avatars may be do to update call errors ? [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002:. [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: would it be possible to wait for a piece of code that needs it before updating? [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.0 [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: o.0 [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 0.o [11:19] Richardus Raymaker: my windows7 did go BSOD on cache_manager error few days ago [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: possible becasue windows or opensim only eat memory and not giv emuch back [11:20] Dahlia Trimble: you have bad memory? [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: no, memory is replaced. [11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think SignpostMarv was needing it to use some libs a couple of days ago [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: BSOD could happen for 1000 reasons [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: its just fresh restarted. now at 7GB. but in a few days ats around 11GB. [11:20] xstorm Radek: more then one thing can make bad memory [11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and, I think the sgen collector was out, maybe, in 2.6 [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think ive ever seen opensimulator BSOD a machien though [11:21] Dahlia Trimble: usually BSOD is hardware when it happens to me [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: well, memory where at that moment tight.. only 600MB really free maby 2GB cache [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya i would agree Dahlia [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its usually bad hardware or bad driver [11:21] xstorm Radek: flash programs can do that [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: not used windows throw with bsod's yes [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: or a program specifically written to overflow the machine in some way [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: no flash installed on that, not needed for opensim server [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: maby combination of back software and low memory [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: will see in a few days or so [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: i cant imagine running low on memory would trigger a BSOD [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: well, if you http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff557491(v=vs.85).aspx [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: its possible. maby in combination with soemthing [11:24] Dahlia Trimble: low memory shouldnt be able to trigger BSOD [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: that error would have nothing to do with OpenSim Richardus [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: that was a long pause [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: thats something with the operating system itself [11:24] VivK Lowlag: all the ram the same sicks from the same manufactuer [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya I think it was Arielle Logging in Justin [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: but opensim use all memory :O [11:24] VivK Lowlag: sticks [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: sometimes people logging in really stick the sim up good [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you generally see a nice spew of CAPS taking 10000ms etc.. [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: and thats the reason why people get a bit obver sensitive and ban viewers [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: after that happens [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: probably bad network connection or something [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, need to think about why that is hapening [11:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe that is why it takes longer in SL - maybe they do that in some separate process [11:25] xstorm Radek: test 2:25:50 [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: that's connection from simulator to asset server though [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: well something i beleive is slowing down threads [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: at least a lot of the stuff I'm seeing [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: so the sim has trouble contacting asset server [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: the asset server isnt the issue i dont think [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen a few days ago a slow get assets request for a while when i boted the region [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: its definately something in the simulator [11:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think it has to push her appearance out to all the avatars [11:26] Richardus Raymaker: its terrible. becaue for some reason the map seems to get created before the sim is registrated. and i think the slow get came from 3dwarp map [11:26] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and push the avatars appearance out to her [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I do wonder if we shouldnt' eb using keep alive on all those connections [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: LL has been talking about there are routers that contribute to these problems [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: with their Project Shining [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: is tehr enot a way to registarte trhe region to grid ASAP when opensim start ? [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, but that's from viewer to sim [11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: probably bufferbloat [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: they have been testing a lot of Residential routers [11:27] xstorm Radek: thats the time outs i been looking at with inventory calls over hypergrid and UUID calls lol [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and identified a bunch that cause lots of issues for the viewer [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: one being the iconic Linksys Blue WRT routers [11:27] xstorm Radek: interesting [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: something with their NAT tables [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: confuses the viewer [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and it ends up overwhelming the routers nat tables [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: and they become nearly unresponsive [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I use my Linux host as my router [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: kind of like a cascading effect or something [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: I heard it was something to do with the LL viewer wrapper for libcurl [11:28] xstorm Radek: so im not the only one seeing it ? [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: they say they are working on trying to make the viewer handle it better [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I saw that router mentioned, and thought - well I don't seem to have issues" [11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, it is on a different part of the net [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: it could be the version of firmware your running [11:29] Armin WeatherwaxArmin Weatherwax has a blue wrt router [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: or the router hardware revision [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there is like 1000 revisions of that router [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:29] Arielle Popstar: dd-wrt here [11:29] Dahlia Trimble: isnt that the one people install new linux versions on? [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya if your actually running DD-WRT or other WRT linux routers [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: it probably won't happen [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: yes you can Dahlia [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is if you do the problem goes away [11:30] Arielle Popstar: ping sim of around 3000 here [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya I am not suprrised you say that Arielle [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: 155, still laoding then for you arielle [11:30] xstorm Radek: lol whats your provider running just joking [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the sim totally froze when you logged in [11:30] VivK Lowlag: mines 222ms on a 3g connection [11:30] Dahlia Trimble: ping is 90 for me [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: you can see when sim is loaded. then ping is low [11:30] Armin Weatherwax: 150..160ms [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: 70ms here [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ping of 3000 would be, er unusable [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: heh ya ping of 3000 would be unusuable for just about anything on the internet [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: 255 ms here [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: Justin, high ping for me always mean its still loading [11:31] Arielle Popstar: just good for delayed chat :) [11:31] xstorm Radek: 3000 omh Second Life assets server [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: not as bad as asia though, 300 - 350ms [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: 3000ms is like to the moon and back [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:31] xstorm Radek: ;) [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: No nebadon, moon is faster [11:31] VivK Lowlag: satellite internet [11:31] xstorm Radek: sl on the moon lol [11:31] Arielle Popstar: guess i am a cloud? [11:32] Frank Northmead whispers: Yes, Arielle ? [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I see firestorm just had a new release with more opensim support [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: nebaodn, singulairty shows some meory useage. not sur eif its client or server.. [11:33] Sarah Kline: smiles at Armin [11:33] xstorm Radek: Frank your on my keyboard lol [11:33] Bea Witched: FS is very stable as well Justin [11:33] Robert Adams: that's the Firestorm I'm using.... working great so far [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: nice [11:33] Richardus Raymaker: firestorm have a ui scale bug. that makes it not useable for me [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I tend to stick with the sl viewer mostly because I want to know when things break sooner rather than later [11:33] Sarah Kline: lol [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: ui scale bug? [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: I like to make my UI larger [11:34] Robert Adams: having the new features while also having the V1 UI and chat box is worth a lot to me [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: but otherwise I would definitely be using fs more often now [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: yes, if you set UI in preferences at 1.33 (good font size) then editors like lsl are soem characters off from the real edit point [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: the cursor.. [11:34] Sarah Kline: any chance of it going on the download page soon [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I find the LSL editor in V3 viewers to just be completely horrible [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: regardless of what you do [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its terrible [11:35] Armin Weatherwax: Neb +1 [11:35] Frank Northmead: I use LSLEdit, I neverr use the build it. [11:35] Richardus Raymaker: explain neb ? its not difefrent then the sl1 [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: well the fonts seem wierd [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: like you said the cursor always seems 1 character off [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: i tried to use ecternal editor with firestorm, result scripts dont get saved inworld. so you edit for nothing [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: no matter what the UI scale is [11:36] Robert Adams: and it doesn't have vi key bindings ;-) [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its such a pain in the ass to select a certain portion of code [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i always mess up [11:36] Sarah Kline: didnt they have to change the font once [11:36] Bea Witched: notecards are the same [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, well for me the editor seems fine. ony the cursor position not [11:36] Sarah Kline: had no permission to use it [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: It seriously seems like LL doesnt actually use their own viewer for anything [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: yes bae, notecards have the same bug [11:37] Bea Witched: that bug has been for years now [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya its possible notecards have it to [11:37] Dahlia Trimble: I set UI to 1.33 and some dialogs wont fit on the screen [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ive only noticed in the LSL editor [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: i dotn have it with singularity [11:38] Richardus Raymaker: i run 1680x1050 (not native) with dpi 125% and UI 1.33 in firestorm. never got problems in any viewer [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: how are the bulletsim changes going? [11:39] Richardus Raymaker: aah intrestsing.. [11:39] Arowana Kemstan: Is firestorml the best ? [11:39] Robert Adams: coming along well.... I have vehicles almost working but Bullet has some problem with constraint stability [11:40] Robert Adams: then I'll attach the avatar [11:40] Sarah Kline: sounds good [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: attach the avatar? to the vehicle? [11:40] Richardus Raymaker: need to need that i use a version of singulaity beyond the official 1.7.0 release. (sound bug fix) [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: arowana: the best? [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: My PDA beeped to remind me of the meeting but I was watching something and almost forgot again. [11:41] Arielle Popstar: BEST VIEWER DEPENDS ON THE MACHINE IT IS ON [11:41] Arowana Kemstan: I know that there are several viewer, so why did you choose firestorml ? [11:41] VivK Lowlag: it's all a matter of preference [11:41] Arowana Kemstan: Ah ok [11:41] Arielle Popstar: ooops caps sorry [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: heh hello Andrew [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Best is always a matter of preference. [11:41] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves hello [11:41] Robert Adams: riding a vehicle works [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: hello andrew [11:41] Sarah Kline: go try them all [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: cool Robert, are you using the Kitto Racer? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: or have you gotten my racer working too now? [11:42] Sarah Kline: my golf cart! [11:42] Armin Weatherwax: Arowana i choose the viewer I use depending on what I want to do [11:42] Nalates Urriah: What happens when viewer have to switch over to the Lab's new Shining HTTP Library? [11:42] Robert Adams: but avatar movement is wonky... they slip around and don't walk up inclines properly [11:42] Robert Adams: I've been using Kitto's and Nebadon's racers [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm, i forgot what the http libary did [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: not sure Nalates, are they saying TPVs cant use that? [11:42] xstorm Radek: / [11:42] Sarah Kline: thats good [11:42] Franziska Bossi: :) [11:42] Richardus Raymaker: hi franzi [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: nalates: I don't know - I dont' see immediately how that affects the simulator - it's not as if the data protocols are changing afaik [11:42] Franziska Bossi: hi all [11:42] Robert Adams: Nebadon's works best at the moment because it's heavier :) [11:43] Franziska Bossi: hihi [11:43] xstorm Radek: ???i never seen any walk errors in opensim [11:43] Nalates Urriah: No, they are gong to make it available. At least the API connection stuff. [11:43] Sarah Kline: its only the havoc pathfinding stuff [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: nice Robert [11:43] Richardus Raymaker: walk errors ? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: did you ever figure out the mega prim issues? with the cuts and hollows etc..? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: like parts of the race track curves having phantom walls? [11:43] Nalates Urriah: Many of the HTTP ports will be changing... [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: phantom walls? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: that probably doesn't affect us unless they're made enough to hardcode things [11:44] xstorm Radek: thats good [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: on bullet? [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: mad [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: yes on Bulletsim Dahlia [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: is appdomain = false anyway readed under windows ? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: in the Physics testing arena i made [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: the race track [11:44] Dahlia Trimble: using convex hulls? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: there are parts where walking through it you smack into phantom walls [11:44] Robert Adams: yes... the convex hull generator creates just an estimate... and that shows up when the object is really large [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes, otherwise you will probably use even more memeory than you're uysing now [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: on the hollow cylinders [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: that i use on the walls [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming you are running a lter opensim build and not 0.7.3.1 [11:45] Robert Adams: I've gone to meshes for static objects so they will be correct [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: great [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: i run the 06-30 justin [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i need to get testing that again [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i might update today on my local machine and do somet testing [11:45] Arielle Popstar: is opensim.ini tweaked for performance on linux? [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: I believe AppDomain = false is now fine on windows, thuogh maybe I've just stoped hearing abnout it [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: I was planning at one time to just have primmesher create convex hulls but I never finished it [11:45] Robert Adams: and I'll use the convex hulls for dynamic objects and generate them with the newer convex hull code that's now part of Bullet [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: not at this point really [11:46] Arielle Popstar: the osgrid release [11:46] Arielle Popstar: ? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: AppDomain = false on windows i beleive scripts have issues [11:46] Robert Adams: I'll be able to delete that mass of convex hull code out of OpenSim [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be immediate you notice it [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: still? [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: HACD? [11:46] Richardus Raymaker: i have not seen any problem with the false setting nebadon [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: did that ever get fixed Justin? [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: BTW, I noticed a minor error in the osgrid sample OpenSim.ini file yesterday. [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i honestly do not even remember now [11:46] Robert Adams: yes, Dalia [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i dont run opensimulator on windows [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought it had gone away [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its possible its fixed, but i myself cant say for sure [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't run it often enough on widnowds either - and tbh I could never reproduce the original problems [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya i couldnt either [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: i cant run it on linux. the support my cpu very bad [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: never seen it run as good sicne its on windows [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I've usually found myself running OS on Windows with Linux for webserver and databases. [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: The GC is almost certainly a lot better on Windows .net [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: and they're making further imrpovements in .et 4.5 [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: .net [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: thats for sure. only something strange happend here some time ago. i just see if it happens again [11:48] Arielle Popstar: would be nice to see a release tweaked for windows more [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: but i understand where still on 3.5 [11:48] Fluffy Fennec: you know guys [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: there are no tweaks that can currentlyi be done [11:48] Fluffy Fennec: these all things you're saying are like [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: the only tweak is use newer .net ? [11:49] Fluffy Fennec: " bla la bla bla science talking bla bla bla " [11:49] Fluffy Fennec: :P [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon: In [Modules] change LandServiceConnector to LandServiceInConnector [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: ya the only real tweak that you could do to OpenSim in windows ot improve it [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: fluffy: you do realize this is a development meeting, right? [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: is to hack OpenSim.exe to allow for 3gb memory in 32 bit windows [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: beyond that i cant really think of anything [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: also dont use SQLite [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:49] Richardus Raymaker: i use the opensim.exe runs more smooth [11:49] Arielle Popstar: appdomain is one setting which differes for windows isnt it? [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: sqlite, eep. never [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: no, afaik apdomain = false is fine for windows [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: The default setting should actually be better for windows [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: or at least, I haven't heard any complaints [11:50] Arielle Popstar: i find sqlite faster for smaller regions [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: appdomain = true in windows should run better technically [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but only if you have tons of scripts [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: you think? Does take a ton more memory in my experience [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm and tons of GB's [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: yes but it can GC [11:50] Richardus Raymaker: aha [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: that is true [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: so performance may take a small hit, but memory should be better [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: mmmph, I had completely forgotten about that. [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: ho hum [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: intressting [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but on the low end of scripts [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: like 500 or less scripts [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: i doubt your going to see a ton of difference [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Is the appdomain thing specific to XEngine or was it also an issue wtih DotNet? [11:51] Richardus Raymaker: well i keep it enabled on my mega now i know it [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: dot net is long dead and removed [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: you mean C#? [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I know. I was just wondering if this is a new problem or a long standing one? [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: but afaik the setting is currently within xengine [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: k [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: DotNetEngine [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya its for xengine [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think dot net engine ever had an option for it [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: dotnet engine was very different [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: if there's ever another script engine some of that stuff will have to be extracted into generic code [11:53] Frank Northmead: How is memory holding up Neb? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: let me check [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: 603MB ? [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Are there any projects or plans to reengineer xengine or make a new scripting engine to address current issues? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: 826mb [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: currently [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its up and dwn [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its 700 now [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: so bouncing between 700 and 900 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: bounding around 700-900 [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:53] Frank Northmead: up and down is good, up and up is bad. [11:53] Richardus Raymaker: my viewer show some allaocated memory to [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon: still beats the values about twice that you sometimes saw [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya i would say normally [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the sim would be around 1500mb by now [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so this is good news [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it is good stuff [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: maby this new patch is lowering it on my server to [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya 20 avatars at the moment [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we would normally be over 1000mb on show stats [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: probably around 15 avatars [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Is this region running with the latest leak patches that came from Melanie the other day? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we would normally be hitting around 1000 [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: -yes Andrew [11:55] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods [11:55] Bea Witched: wonderful [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i updated about 20 minutes before meeting [11:55] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         892dd59: 2012-07-23 16:38:31 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:55] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         892dd59: 2012-07-23 16:38:31 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: heh man i so need a new mouse [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: my mouse is on the verge of death [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice. Looking forward to 0.7.4 with those patches [11:55] Richardus Raymaker: aww nebadon. [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yes,, all this stuff will make itnito 0.7.4 [11:56] xstorm Radek: ? lol not me thank you i have too much work to do now [11:56] xstorm Radek: ? [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: keeps hestitating and double clicking on me [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, my cat beheaded a mouse recently. All we found was the body. [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:56] Dahlia Trimble: ewwwww [11:56] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.4 Dev         892dd59: 2012-07-23 16:38:31 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:56] Richardus Raymaker: andrew, that muse is DOA [11:56] Arielle Popstar: any ideas why inventory wont or is very slow loading on some regions? [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: my cat once brought home a rabbit's foot [11:56] xstorm Radek: hey no more mouse talk lol [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hehe [11:56] Sarah Kline: hehhe [11:57] Armin WeatherwaxArmin Weatherwax meows [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, beats the time we had a blood trail down the hall and in the kitchen. [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: EWWWW [11:57] Bea WitchedBea Witched giggles [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: I hope you praised him [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: or her [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, he is good at catching mice. [11:58] xstorm Radek: any one like to see what openports can do to UUID calls from a assets server ? [11:58] xstorm Radek: lol [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd prefer he didn't as it would mean they aren't getting in the house. [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: heh not really xstorm [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:58] xstorm Radek: i know im bad lol saved screen shots from the LLassets server [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: oh if its LL servers [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: sure [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:59] xstorm Radek: lol [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. I was looking at the money system I've been fixing up from decompiled code. One thing I noticed is that the PHP code used to be able to inject messages for avatars via a URL. Is that still possible? [11:59] Nalates Urriah: I have to run, bye all [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: that sounds scary [11:59] Richardus Raymaker: bye nalates [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: see you Nalates [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: bye nalates [12:00] Frank Northmead: Bye, Nalates [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Natales [12:00] Bea Witched: be well Nalates [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: memory is back down to 650mb [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: very nice [12:00] Dahlia Trimble: me too, bye all :) [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: wow [12:00] Bea Witched: be well Dahlia [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: see you Dahlia, thanks for coming :) [12:00] Arielle Popstar: well tell the asset server to give me my hair :( [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia [12:00] Frank Northmead: Bye Dahlia ? [12:00] Arielle Popstar: since it has the memory [12:00] Bea Witched: nice to hear it's releasing memory [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I'm not sure. You can send a general alert via the xmlrpc admin stuff on a simulator, but not to individuals [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: but if this is c# code running within opensim then it can just call the appropriate methods directly [12:01] xstorm Radek: http://www.flickr.com/photos/xstormradek/7559908018 [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: depends what this php was hitting [12:01] xstorm Radek: that pic shows what will happen [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, ok. This code was trying to send notification to individual avatars about money sent/received. I've done it in the module code but I have an issue with knowing if the PHP side really moved the money or not first. [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: in principle you might be able to lpug in to the im system [12:02] xstorm Radek: i love UUID hardware call code [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: SL anyway slowww [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: but that would be deep black magic [12:02] xstorm Radek: black magic lol [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: justin, interesting idea though [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: one thing i notice for sure Justin [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: is when people log out memory jumps up [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: xstorm: Most of OS is about the same as black magic to me ;-) [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: watch the WP console as people log out [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you've got to be careful - memory is jumping up all the time whether people are logging or not [12:03] Drew TheSkunk: storm :3 [12:03] xstorm Radek: memory jump ??? [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: well it seems to go up really high when people og out [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: log out* [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: odd. You wouldn't expect it to jump [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: though it appears to be going down now too though [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: which is good [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: well, ther'es no good reaosn why that would be happening - structures rae removed on logout rather than created [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: just not quite sure why it jumps so high when they log out [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya didnt seem to make much sense [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ive noticed this for a long time now though [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: i always watch everyone leave WP meeting [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: and it always goes up [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: buffers? [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: honestly, it's very difficult to tell anything from the memory changes, apart from when it permanently sticks at a higher levle [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: normally before it would stay up [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: though I plan on introducing some experimental churn stats soon [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we'll see today if thats the case [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: it should be lower after they left [12:05] xstorm Radek: sounds like a math error on software side [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully today it goes back down [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: but WP normally after 24 hours [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its using 2-3gb [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: on show stats [12:05] Frank Northmead: a bunch of notifications being queued to friends when someone leaves. [12:05] Richardus Raymaker: dnebadon, do you expect a new osgrid version this month ? [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: frank: would be a very small amount of memory [12:05] Bea Witched: Neb are you only testing the version here or on the Lbsa as well? [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya for sure Richardus [12:05] Frank Northmead: true [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: only here so far Bea [12:06] xstorm Radek: is it letting go of the memory thats used ??? [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: right now its definately letting go [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: but we'll see what happens when everyone starts logging out at same time [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: memory can bounce around for a lot of other reasons we're not seeing as well though [12:06] xstorm Radek: hhhmmm ok thats a new one its not hardware then [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: dealing with varying levels of caps requests, etc. [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: things are already looking a lot better than previous meetings though [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: so thats good [12:07] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks nods [12:07] xstorm Radek: has to me a software error some place in its code [12:07] Arielle Popstar: something not right as i am not getting invetory i trying to wear [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: is your ping really high still Arielle? [12:08] Arielle Popstar: down to 234 [12:08] Justin Clark-Casey: you see memory go up until the gc kicks in and collects the objects not being used anymore [12:08] xstorm Radek: 234 omg [12:08] Arielle Popstar: norm is about 100 for the plaza's [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: 235 isnt too horrible [12:08] xstorm Radek: that makes timeouts on calls [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but ya sounds like something not quite right [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: thats high for being inside US [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: heh [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: on broadband [12:09] Richardus Raymaker: ohh, can opensim crash on locked cache file ? its changed now. but anyway curious [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: er no, it will just complain loudly [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: my ping time is 174ms [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: er, and then it really depends what you're talking about, which could be anything [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway [12:09] xstorm Radek: sounds like some one has the user throttled [12:09] Bea Witched: steady 100ms in CT [12:09] Frank Northmead: 85ms [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway,. I need to pop off now. See you around folks [12:10] Arielle Popstar: can throttle per user? [12:10] logger sewell: I'm 82 in Tenn [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone here know much about estates? I'm finding that newly created regions don't seem to be getting added to an estate. [12:10] Robert Adams: I have 120 in OR [12:10] xstorm Radek: in CT DSL im getting 23 [12:10] Robert Adams: bye Justin [12:10] Bea Witched: pffft X [12:10] Armin Weatherwax: tc Justin [12:10] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves [12:10] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin [12:10] Bea Witched: be well Justin [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: see you justin [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: cya, justin [12:10] Arielle Popstar: i get 60 to my router ;) [12:10] Sarah Kline: bye Justin [12:10] Robert Adams: I'm going to run too.... bye all [12:10] Frank Northmead: bye