Chat log from the meeting on 2011-11-22

[2011/11/22 11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah

[2011/11/22 11:01] Sarah Kline: hi

[2011/11/22 11:01] BlueWall Slade: Hello

[2011/11/22 11:01] Sarah Kline: hello Justin

[2011/11/22 11:01] Sarah Kline: Blue

[2011/11/22 11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello

[2011/11/22 11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, folks

[2011/11/22 11:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin

[2011/11/22 11:03] Richardus Raymaker: looks like LL need new people. if the have promo's with 50% off premium

[2011/11/22 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[2011/11/22 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: so whats that 5$ a month?

[2011/11/22 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: is that always i wonder or just 1st month?

[2011/11/22 11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: promo's for what?

[2011/11/22 11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: any business always needs new people

[2011/11/22 11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya especially heading into the holidays

[2011/11/22 11:04] Richardus Raymaker: the have a limited discount action

[2011/11/22 11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Where is the information on it?

[2011/11/22 11:04] BlueWall Slade: they added some premium-only areas

[2011/11/22 11:04] Sarah Kline: we can offer 100% off then

[2011/11/22 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[2011/11/22 11:04] Richardus Raymaker: lol sarah

[2011/11/22 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: ha :)

[2011/11/22 11:04] BlueWall Slade: now they're going use them as a hook with the discount

[2011/11/22 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: just on the webpage andrew

[2011/11/22 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: sounds like they are making a big push to increase premium accounts

[2011/11/22 11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, ok. I don't read their web page often

[2011/11/22 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: but you still dont get enough from them. its still only 300L / week. lol

[2011/11/22 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: i hear grandfathered get more then the pay

[2011/11/22 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: either that or they are trying to plug a leak in the dam

[2011/11/22 11:05] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[2011/11/22 11:05] Sarah Kline: they have a load of empty mainland

[2011/11/22 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: where just checking if there where new sl3.2 viewer. and saw that

[2011/11/22 11:05] BlueWall Slade: http://pastebin.com/f3R0sk5N

[2011/11/22 11:06] Richardus Raymaker: sarah, and it only get more empty

[2011/11/22 11:07] BlueWall Slade: that is an example of an ini that I'm using here that fills variables from the system's shell environament variables

[2011/11/22 11:07] Sarah Kline: hi Key

[2011/11/22 11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... sure they can offer reduction in sign up as a premium member. They'll get all the "lost" money back in the monthly fees that need to be paid

[2011/11/22 11:07] Key Gruin: hi Sarah, hi everyone

[2011/11/22 11:07] sim core: :-J I know it was a one time 10usd fee, to register more than one avatar before so it may be on that

[2011/11/22 11:07] BlueWall Slade: Hi Key

[2011/11/22 11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hi key

[2011/11/22 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: I really doubt LL makes a ton from premium memberships

[2011/11/22 11:07] Richardus Raymaker: anybody here lots of megaregion experience ?

[2011/11/22 11:07] Nebadon Izumi: most of their income is from hosting regions no doubt

[2011/11/22 11:08] Richardus Raymaker: 7$ for premium / month compared to 295$ for a region.

[2011/11/22 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: memory looks pretty good on the sim

[2011/11/22 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, Ithink most is from hosting

[2011/11/22 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: wonder if some of those changes you did is helping with memory justin

[2011/11/22 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: sim is only using 638mb on show stats

[2011/11/22 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: that seems low

[2011/11/22 11:08] Gennifer Eros: Hello all

[2011/11/22 11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly - certianly one of them stops the physics holding on to PhysicsActors unnecessarily

[2011/11/22 11:09] BlueWall Slade: Hello Gennifer

[2011/11/22 11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I've been exploring what information is in stack traces today

[2011/11/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: cool

[2011/11/22 11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: You can actually use the addr2line tool to convert the mono addresses to mono files and line numbers

[2011/11/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: 596mb with 13 avatars

[2011/11/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: thats crazy low

[2011/11/22 11:09] BlueWall Slade: ahhhaaaa!

[2011/11/22 11:09] Gennifer Eros: Will there be at some point a forced upgrade to 0.7.3 or above?

[2011/11/22 11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Memory is back under control again, Nebadon?

[2011/11/22 11:09] Richardus Raymaker: intressting

[2011/11/22 11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: but you just started this sim up?

[2011/11/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say Andrew

[2011/11/22 11:09] Nebadon Izumi: this is 1st ive noticed it

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i only updated this sim about 40 minutes ago

[2011/11/22 11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like its better than it was last week

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: a lot better

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: 50% reduction

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: atleast

[2011/11/22 11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks nods

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: but its hard to say if its fluke

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: or actual improvement

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: needs more testing

[2011/11/22 11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I doubt that is due to changes

[2011/11/22 11:10] sim core: :-J

[2011/11/22 11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: the reduction would be too big

[2011/11/22 11:10] Gennifer Eros: By the way ned, 0.7.3 does not only screw positions, it also screws scripts on my regions

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ive never seen it this low here

[2011/11/22 11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, which was the fluke? THe high memory or the low? :-)

[2011/11/22 11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with this many users

[2011/11/22 11:10] Gennifer Eros: neb even

[2011/11/22 11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: in what way does it screw scripts?

[2011/11/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: you would be the 1st person reporting that Gennifer

[2011/11/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: are you on Windows?

[2011/11/22 11:11] Gennifer Eros: The stop working even after a reset or recompile

[2011/11/22 11:11] Gennifer Eros: Yes

[2011/11/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: edit OpenSim.ini

[2011/11/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: [Xengine] section

[2011/11/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: change AppDomainLoadin = false

[2011/11/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: to true

[2011/11/22 11:11] Nebadon Izumi: that will fix you

[2011/11/22 11:12] Gennifer Eros: Ok, I will try that now thank you

[2011/11/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: k

[2011/11/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: thats not new though

[2011/11/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: thats a very old one

[2011/11/22 11:12] Gennifer Eros: I have never had it happen before

[2011/11/22 11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its easy to miss though when you upgrade OpenSim.ini

[2011/11/22 11:12] Gennifer Eros: I have always left that as is

[2011/11/22 11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone working on physics? I was trying a firework and the firework rezzed by llRezObject doesn't move. Seems like it doesn't support the velocity parameter.

[2011/11/22 11:13] Richardus Raymaker: dont set psyics object phantom

[2011/11/22 11:13] Yoshiko Fazuku: hehe you just reminded me of something

[2011/11/22 11:13] BlueWall Slade: that should work

[2011/11/22 11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. Physical objects can't be phantom?

[2011/11/22 11:13] Richardus Raymaker: yes

[2011/11/22 11:13] Richardus Raymaker: the seems to refuse moveing if the are phantom

[2011/11/22 11:13] Yoshiko Fazuku: i forgot to tweek the timer to sl similar speeds in the config

[2011/11/22 11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... ok. I'll try that. I just set the same parameters on the bullet as in SL.

[2011/11/22 11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: phantom objects have no physics presence

[2011/11/22 11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Ah, ok.

[2011/11/22 11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: So the two tick boxes cancel each other

[2011/11/22 11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: possibly - what happens on SL?

[2011/11/22 11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: The firework bullet moves as expected when set to physical and phantom

[2011/11/22 11:14] Yoshiko Fazuku: sl is kinda backwards

[2011/11/22 11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: what happens if it collides with an object?

[2011/11/22 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: you can do things like volumedetect

[2011/11/22 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: on phantom objects

[2011/11/22 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i think you can have phantom physical in SL

[2011/11/22 11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: No idea. I don't care about that. Its a firework. I want it to move up in to the air before it explodes

[2011/11/22 11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its not quite the same as here

[2011/11/22 11:15] Richardus Raymaker: sometimes it would be nice and save to have verhicle phantom. but its not logic to. it cant feel the ground then anymore

[2011/11/22 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: In principle you could have an object ignore collisions with anything but the ground

[2011/11/22 11:16] Yoshiko Fazuku: would be nice if they did it like sl simply becuse a lot of people bring scripts over and cant figure out why they dont work

[2011/11/22 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, this is the chief for being sl compatible

[2011/11/22 11:16] Richardus Raymaker: dont use sl scripts :)

[2011/11/22 11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah. It should be documented somewhere so people would have a chance to learn the difference

[2011/11/22 11:16] Gennifer Eros: They dont work cos LL wont allow it lol

[2011/11/22 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: there are complex questions if things are both physical and phantom

[2011/11/22 11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: ll often does these things for very good reasons

[2011/11/22 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya matching SL physics stuff is going to be very difficult

[2011/11/22 11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: What issues are there with the current master. Still some from dslake's changes?

[2011/11/22 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: impossible in some cases

[2011/11/22 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: becasue they do not publish any details about physics

[2011/11/22 11:17] Nebadon Izumi: we have to guess 100% of the time

[2011/11/22 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: nothing from dslake's that i am aware of

[2011/11/22 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I thought you said there were still a few issues

[2011/11/22 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there was some stuff with animations

[2011/11/22 11:18] Yoshiko Fazuku: well behavior is one thing settings and scripting is another

[2011/11/22 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but that cleared up with your collision fix

[2011/11/22 11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: We don't want to completely replicate all of SL's script compatibilities. A lot of SL scripts are bad to start with. Better that some of them break in OpenSim so they can get fixed instead of used as is.

[2011/11/22 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: I blieve there is still some stuff with animations

[2011/11/22 11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: certainly isaw the problems I saw after my changes

[2011/11/22 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats probable

[2011/11/22 11:18] Gennifer Eros: True andrew

[2011/11/22 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya i saw 2 different things

[2011/11/22 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: the stuck walking in place is probably still around

[2011/11/22 11:19] Gennifer Eros: It is

[2011/11/22 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: the other issues i saw were 100% related to the collision stuff

[2011/11/22 11:19] Gennifer Eros: I get that a lot

[2011/11/22 11:19] Richardus Raymaker: walking, flying or failling seems to hang. but its viewer or opensim ?

[2011/11/22 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: they didnt happen until after your 1st border cross fix

[2011/11/22 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: then stopped with the collision fix

[2011/11/22 11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey is walking in place right now

[2011/11/22 11:19] Spike Sol: Good Evening Ladys and Gentleman

[2011/11/22 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: it was 100% reproducable

[2011/11/22 11:19] Gennifer Eros: Evening spike

[2011/11/22 11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you are not on my screen

[2011/11/22 11:19] Richardus Raymaker: hoi spike

[2011/11/22 11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: hello spike

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you are standing still to me Justin

[2011/11/22 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, so a local sending proble

[2011/11/22 11:20] Richardus Raymaker: no move here justin

[2011/11/22 11:20] BlueWall Slade: hello

[2011/11/22 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: or at least, not one consistent to all viewers

[2011/11/22 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: ok

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ive seen it both ways

[2011/11/22 11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: hello bluewall

[2011/11/22 11:20] Key Gruin: I've been getting the walk in place all the tie lately

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: where the person cant see themselves working

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: but everyone else can

[2011/11/22 11:20] Key Gruin: timef*

[2011/11/22 11:20] Yoshiko Fazuku: anything new in bulletsim dev lately?

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: and ive seen it where only the user can see themselves stuck walking

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: not yet

[2011/11/22 11:20] BlueWall Slade: I saw Spike floating off into space, then rubberband back here

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: we have to finalize some things with Contributors Agreement before bullet sim dev can resume

[2011/11/22 11:20] Nebadon Izumi: soon

[2011/11/22 11:21] Gennifer Eros: Another question, is there any problem if I change to use Grid.ini rather than GridHyperGrid.ini?

[2011/11/22 11:21] BlueWall Slade: the Patent thing?

[2011/11/22 11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: yes

[2011/11/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: we have been going back and forth with Intel over some wording in the agreement that raised red flags with their legal department

[2011/11/22 11:21] BlueWall Slade: can you explain that just a bit?

[2011/11/22 11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its mostly worked out

[2011/11/22 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: not in summary. Did you read the relevant e-mail?

[2011/11/22 11:22] BlueWall Slade: yes

[2011/11/22 11:22] BlueWall Slade: it looks ok to me - if I understand it fully

[2011/11/22 11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: ok

[2011/11/22 11:23] Gennifer Eros: Ok, off to my region to see if the door issue is fixed, be back soon

[2011/11/22 11:23] Nebadon Izumi: lk

[2011/11/22 11:24] Richardus Raymaker: otherwise use axe gennifer

[2011/11/22 11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Door issue in OS? Wonder if that is a door script from SL ;-)

[2011/11/22 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: nah, she had AppDomainLoading = false

[2011/11/22 11:24] Nebadon Izumi: that breaks sims on windows

[2011/11/22 11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right

[2011/11/22 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lots of scripts dont work

[2011/11/22 11:25] Richardus Raymaker: i know someone told me sometimes after crahs restart the doors stopped working. but that script looked so basic

[2011/11/22 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: have no doubt it will work

[2011/11/22 11:25] sim core: ( I never understood, the use of doors in the metaverse other than visuals :-)

[2011/11/22 11:25] Richardus Raymaker: more fun to write from scratch. as soon you know how

[2011/11/22 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: same reason were all human form i guess

[2011/11/22 11:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[2011/11/22 11:26] BlueWall Slade: and sitting on couches

[2011/11/22 11:26] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[2011/11/22 11:26] Richardus Raymaker: no couches. would save lots of work

[2011/11/22 11:26] sim core: :-J Well, I tried dancing as a robot and humanoid seems more 'Fluid' for that

[2011/11/22 11:26] Akira Sonoda: Akira Sonoda nods

[2011/11/22 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: robots can only dance good to binary

[2011/11/22 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: it seems a megasim if its 4x4 start to do wierd with system load. think mono is going nuts

[2011/11/22 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: 3x3 i think is ok

[2011/11/22 11:27] BlueWall Slade: I need to make a script to compare the avatar position/prim position between the broking sit version

[2011/11/22 11:27] sim core: :-J

[2011/11/22 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: what a shame. would windows work better ?

[2011/11/22 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: my OKC Sandbox is a 4x4

[2011/11/22 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: no problems

[2011/11/22 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. i get system loads that go up to 14 or more nebadon

[2011/11/22 11:27] Richardus Raymaker: ok, good to know i can work

[2011/11/22 11:27] Gennifer Eros: Thank you neb, that fixed it

[2011/11/22 11:27] Nebadon Izumi: even with empty sim?

[2011/11/22 11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: sim: doors are all part of making virtual places look/act like you would expect them to in RL

[2011/11/22 11:28] BlueWall Slade: hopefully it will be a constant, and I can make a script to fix the sit targets in the region

[2011/11/22 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: its empty yes

[2011/11/22 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: no Problem Gennifer, i knew it would

[2011/11/22 11:28] Grant Silversmith: Hey, you are my neighbor.

[2011/11/22 11:28] Gennifer Eros: Would be nice if it had been documneted though lol

[2011/11/22 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: that seems odd Richardus

[2011/11/22 11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: we leverage the conventions of meatspace

[2011/11/22 11:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[2011/11/22 11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe

[2011/11/22 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: but need to check anyway soemthing. sda is doing weird with atime

[2011/11/22 11:28] Simulator Version v0.5: shouts: OpenSim 0.7.3 Dev          b89c48b: 2011-11-21 22:06:43 +0000 (Unix/Mono)

[2011/11/22 11:28] sim core: ( I mean, why not leave them opened as most of the time people do not like opening them :-)

[2011/11/22 11:28] Richardus Raymaker: its good to know you hvae 4x4. so it must works. its a nice size

[2011/11/22 11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: heh

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya visit OKC Sandbox

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: you can check it out

[2011/11/22 11:29] Richardus Raymaker: i dont like opendoors

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i do all my vehicle dev work there

[2011/11/22 11:29] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, doing that on 1x1 now. but for the big works i need space

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: 18 users 900mb

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: thats pretty good

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there is a distinct lowering of memory usage

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: not sure from what

[2011/11/22 11:29] Nebadon Izumi: but there clearly is

[2011/11/22 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: could be something unrelated

[2011/11/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: normally by now we are well over 1000mb

[2011/11/22 11:30] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm you have some less prims here and scripts ?

[2011/11/22 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: we still churn thorough far too much memory

[2011/11/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: like more into the 1200-1300mb range

[2011/11/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[2011/11/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its certainly not perfect

[2011/11/22 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: 17 main agents right now

[2011/11/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: but it seems better today

[2011/11/22 11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: far from perfect - it might be a fundamental difficulty with using a VM for the main scene loop

[2011/11/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya someone must have just left

[2011/11/22 11:30] sim core: :-J Right, I was goinf to say 900mb/ 18 avatars seems to be quite a lot

[2011/11/22 11:30] Nebadon Izumi: it was 18 when i said that

[2011/11/22 11:31] sim core: *Going

[2011/11/22 11:31] Richardus Raymaker: does anybody know how much a LL region use at peak ? say 25 avatars ?

[2011/11/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall

[2011/11/22 11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: When I log in I often see lots of regios with 25 avatars

[2011/11/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: LL sims are allotted 2gb ram

[2011/11/22 11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: advertised on the main screen

[2011/11/22 11:31] Yoshiko Fazuku: hehe i wish some one would atempt to do a straight port from c# to C++ just to see the difrance

[2011/11/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: can can spike to 4gb

[2011/11/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: if they need

[2011/11/22 11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but if it goes over 2gb for long they will kick it

[2011/11/22 11:32] Richardus Raymaker: aha. nice for neighborn regions on system. 4GB.

[2011/11/22 11:32] BlueWall Slade: ohhhh, lol. After working to upgrade some viewer libs, I don't know about the C++ thing.

[2011/11/22 11:32] Richardus Raymaker: then 900MB is nt bad here

[2011/11/22 11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: C# allows one to develop much quicker, I think

[2011/11/22 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: and it avoides buffer overflows, which is good from a security perspective

[2011/11/22 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol it would take a good year of solid work by several very skilled C++ programmers

[2011/11/22 11:33] BlueWall Slade: I think it runs acceptible too

[2011/11/22 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: to fully port opensim to C++

[2011/11/22 11:33] Richardus Raymaker: loves LSL. feels like basic and delphi. :o still need to dig in C#

[2011/11/22 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: but it's slower and I think the pause for GC on mono introubles a jolt into the sceen loop

[2011/11/22 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: just to see that it wont run any better

[2011/11/22 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[2011/11/22 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: heh

[2011/11/22 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: SL is mostly C++

[2011/11/22 11:33] BlueWall Slade: yeah, the GC could be better

[2011/11/22 11:33] Derek foggarty: hello :)

[2011/11/22 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a problem

[2011/11/22 11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: hi derek

[2011/11/22 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: depends BlueWall

[2011/11/22 11:33] Nebadon Izumi: on how good the programmers are

[2011/11/22 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: nothing is auotmatic in C++

[2011/11/22 11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: but tbh, reducing memory churn would help, I think

[2011/11/22 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and you would likely spend 50-75% of your time fixing security holes

[2011/11/22 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[2011/11/22 11:34] Richardus Raymaker: well, with C++ you dont need mono on linux. it saves extra layer and maby increase speed

[2011/11/22 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: "maybe"

[2011/11/22 11:34] Richardus Raymaker: :)

[2011/11/22 11:35] BlueWall Slade: you would need to distribute a staticaly linked binary or somethng

[2011/11/22 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, nobody is rewriting opensim in c anytime soon

[2011/11/22 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: also cross platform becomes slightly more difficult

[2011/11/22 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: or C++

[2011/11/22 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: or snything else, really

[2011/11/22 11:35] BlueWall Slade: it woulnd be pretty hard to get all the libs to line up

[2011/11/22 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[2011/11/22 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: go try to compile a viewer

[2011/11/22 11:35] Richardus Raymaker: still hear devs scream with viewers and linux :)

[2011/11/22 11:35] BlueWall Slade: the Ardour project does a good job

[2011/11/22 11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: Sometimes I wish opensim were written in java though. THe JVM and libraries are much more mature there

[2011/11/22 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: then come back and tell me you want opensim in C++

[2011/11/22 11:35] BlueWall Slade: but, it's a major job to compile it

[2011/11/22 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: go try compiling a viewer on Windows/Mac/Linux

[2011/11/22 11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer is 3x the size of opensim

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: then come back and say C++ is better

[2011/11/22 11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: but it takes vastly longer than 3x to compile :)

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: is it 3x?

[2011/11/22 11:36] BlueWall Slade: at least

[2011/11/22 11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: in loc, approximately

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of file size footprint

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: they are the same

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: arent they?

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i guess its libraries

[2011/11/22 11:36] Nebadon Izumi: they both take about 70-90mb

[2011/11/22 11:37] BlueWall Slade: it takes me about 2 hours to compile just one of the libraries it uses to build another library

[2011/11/22 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey is getting a might 3 fps on his windows box here

[2011/11/22 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I know I know, need to update the libraries :)

[2011/11/22 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: er, drivers

[2011/11/22 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[2011/11/22 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya honestly

[2011/11/22 11:37] Richardus Raymaker: i wish the help command gave more clear info on console. its norw some letter soup. not sure if the wiki have updated page with commands ?

[2011/11/22 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: im not suprised you have performance issues with that card

[2011/11/22 11:37] Gennifer Eros: Gennifer Eros has 13 FPS

[2011/11/22 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: techincally that card is not supported by the viewer

[2011/11/22 11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: that's true

[2011/11/22 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: its not even a game card

[2011/11/22 11:38] Gennifer Eros: Gennifer Eros on her piss poor at best 2Mb connection

[2011/11/22 11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: also true

[2011/11/22 11:38] sim core: :-)

[2011/11/22 11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: hmph

[2011/11/22 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: heh

[2011/11/22 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its an awesome peice of hardware

[2011/11/22 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its just not really inline with SL

[2011/11/22 11:38] Nebadon Izumi: Nvidia Quadro

[2011/11/22 11:38] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, thats a optimized cad/cam card

[2011/11/22 11:38] BlueWall Slade: at least you have color now

[2011/11/22 11:38] Gennifer Eros: I have an APU now lol

[2011/11/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yes Richardus

[2011/11/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: but the drivers are very differnt

[2011/11/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: than a standard Nvidia card

[2011/11/22 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: was looking at a 560 ti today for my main box

[2011/11/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: that has fixes for games

[2011/11/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and optimizations specifically for games

[2011/11/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: Quadro does not have

[2011/11/22 11:39] Richardus Raymaker: optimized for opengl with extra commands special for autodesk / solidedge etc

[2011/11/22 11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yes but not gaming

[2011/11/22 11:39] Richardus Raymaker: yes

[2011/11/22 11:39] BlueWall Slade: justincc, did you see that pastebin about the shell variables?

[2011/11/22 11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure you would class sl as gaming

[2011/11/22 11:39] Richardus Raymaker: why pay 2x more for quadra then for a good gamerscard ?

[2011/11/22 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes

[2011/11/22 11:40] OtakuMegane Desu: For 3D rendering or OpenCL that thing could utterly toast it's gaming equivalent though.

[2011/11/22 11:40] Yoshiko Fazuku: i have a ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series

[2011/11/22 11:40] Richardus Raymaker: hehe

[2011/11/22 11:40] Richardus Raymaker: justin is right. cant call virtualworld a game

[2011/11/22 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya its a nice piece of hardware

[2011/11/22 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but its in a laptop too

[2011/11/22 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its not a full on Quadro

[2011/11/22 11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: In terms of the perf load

[2011/11/22 11:40] BlueWall Slade: I would like to push that - but want to know about foring Nini

[2011/11/22 11:40] Nebadon Izumi: which also has its own set of issues

[2011/11/22 11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Rewrite the viewer in something other than C++ would be nice. Different build for it would be good too. I've never had any success building viewer code.

[2011/11/22 11:40] BlueWall Slade: forking

[2011/11/22 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: realtime is very important for the viewer

[2011/11/22 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: building the viewer is like jumping from the bulding in the matrix

[2011/11/22 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: that's why s omuch gaming stuff is C++

[2011/11/22 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: no one makes it the 1st time

[2011/11/22 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[2011/11/22 11:41] Richardus Raymaker: still opensim give a way lower framerate then sl

[2011/11/22 11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: not quite so critical for the server but it could still be a weakness

[2011/11/22 11:41] sim core: :-J Jumping, from the building...

[2011/11/22 11:41] sim core: ...nice analogy

[2011/11/22 11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is so much optimization left in opensim still

[2011/11/22 11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: You meantioned memory aspects in OS but there are also places where there is more CPU over head than there needs to be.

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: we are way jumping the gun on blaming A) C# and B) incomplete mono

[2011/11/22 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: and very basic stuff

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: also

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: in Windows

[2011/11/22 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: true

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: we do not easily support x64

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: in 32 bit mode

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: after .net overhead

[2011/11/22 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: physics is one of the bottlenecks

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: that leaves about 1.4gb for OpenSim

[2011/11/22 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: that is pure cpu and single threaded

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: which runs out fast

[2011/11/22 11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: at least on ode

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[2011/11/22 11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Bullet is the solution to that

[2011/11/22 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ODE just barely supports multi thread

[2011/11/22 11:43] Nebadon Izumi: and what i tested completely breaks opensim

[2011/11/22 11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Andrew Hellershanks doesn't like the CPU cycle wastage in MapAndArray

[2011/11/22 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: it's really not a prioblem compared to physics

[2011/11/22 11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: there's no point optimizing something without measuring it, and you can see from the client stats where the time is being spent, at least in the main scene loop

[2011/11/22 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: altohugh that's muddied by gc occasionally inflating some numbers

[2011/11/22 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am sure there is still tons of room for improvement to the actual opensim code though

[2011/11/22 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that could improve alot of that

[2011/11/22 11:44] Nebadon Izumi: mono and .net are always improving too

[2011/11/22 11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, absolutely

[2011/11/22 11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah.

[2011/11/22 11:44] Richardus Raymaker: only thing with pshics here it use much more time then in sl. 1 verhicle = 150ms +/- and it seems the sim go nuts if the timer hits 1000ms

[2011/11/22 11:44] sim core: :-J Lucky, it's a distinct part of the experience and I don't expect any free library to be able to compete with commercial ones perfectly

[2011/11/22 11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: THe language really isn't the problem.

[2011/11/22 11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: True but its the principle of the thing. It bugs me knowing its there. Since the wastage is only during building (linking/unlinking) its considered by some to not be important to do anything about. I still think a couple minor changes change help.

[2011/11/22 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: even commercial ones are not perfect

[2011/11/22 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: and game designers are constantly making hackish work arounds to fix things quickly

[2011/11/22 11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: well you know, patches are welcome

[2011/11/22 11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Small changes can made a big difference in areas with large group of users.

[2011/11/22 11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, just working on a project I haven't touched in about 4.5 years. I'll get to it soon

[2011/11/22 11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: some of that stuff is used to avoid thread contention and deadlocks

[2011/11/22 11:46] Richardus Raymaker: it would be nice if group/invemntory/HG actions dont lock the region

[2011/11/22 11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Having to rebuild an array everytime you link/unlink a single item is nuts.

[2011/11/22 11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya inventory needs a lot of help

[2011/11/22 11:46] Richardus Raymaker: not sure if it happens everywhere. but a HG search can freeze you

[2011/11/22 11:46] sim core: :-S HArd to say, where that comes from Richardus

[2011/11/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: I can utterly clobber a sim with v3

[2011/11/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: if i clear my cache

[2011/11/22 11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, some of that could be network related delays

[2011/11/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: and do a search before inventory is like 50% down

[2011/11/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: if i do a search before then the sim just dies

[2011/11/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: spews 1000's of lines of inventory timeouts

[2011/11/22 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: "the little improvements"

[2011/11/22 11:47] sim core: :-J I notice a lot of chatter between regions sometimes, creating the lag it seems and maybe setting a flag to prevent taking care of certain regions would help

[2011/11/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[2011/11/22 11:47] BlueWall Slade: I remember the map for HG was saturating the buffers

[2011/11/22 11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I might implement the inventory cap and see if that makes a difference

[2011/11/22 11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: take that traffic off udp

[2011/11/22 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: having neighbours sucks!

[2011/11/22 11:47] Richardus Raymaker: its still all 1 big thread ? or its already use own threads ?

[2011/11/22 11:48] BlueWall Slade: I didn't see any feedback machanism

[2011/11/22 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: Wright Plaza runs a lot better if there are no nieghbors

[2011/11/22 11:48] Nebadon Izumi: any sim does really for that matter

[2011/11/22 11:48] Kev Brinner: hi

[2011/11/22 11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: yes

[2011/11/22 11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: hi kev

[2011/11/22 11:48] BlueWall Slade: the packets are just popped into the buffer to wait - which is ok for the network side

[2011/11/22 11:48] Kev Brinner: good evening

[2011/11/22 11:48] Richardus Raymaker: hello kev

[2011/11/22 11:49] Kev Brinner: rich:)

[2011/11/22 11:49] sim core: :-) Well, that's to be expected and perhaps instead of having a flag to hide the region from others having the flag hide other regions to itself would help out

[2011/11/22 11:49] BlueWall Slade: but, if it eats most of your memory by not feeding back some info, or having some top limits, you can eat your sim up in a hurry.

[2011/11/22 11:49] BlueWall Slade: I'm guessing everything that is network related does that

[2011/11/22 11:49] Richardus Raymaker: and do you not get a big querry length that way

[2011/11/22 11:50] Kev Brinner: hi hon

[2011/11/22 11:50] Richardus Raymaker: i know in the past if grid where down i saw load raising. but that where the same system i have again problem with. only now i can access it easy

[2011/11/22 11:51] Richardus Raymaker: newer not betetr :O

[2011/11/22 11:52] Matt CMPNetwork: came to crash the party whatzz up

[2011/11/22 11:52] Richardus Raymaker: i have the idea btw that hair get lost a bit more the last time

[2011/11/22 11:52] Matt CMPNetwork: hey justin

[2011/11/22 11:52] Matt CMPNetwork: finally get to meet you :)

[2011/11/22 11:52] Richardus Raymaker: or dont get rezzed back good

[2011/11/22 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Matt

[2011/11/22 11:52] Matt CMPNetwork: yeah i heard you cruised by my sim recently

[2011/11/22 11:52] Matt CMPNetwork: and flew into a residents home :P

[2011/11/22 11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I was just randomly wondering aroudn

[2011/11/22 11:52] Matt CMPNetwork: lol

[2011/11/22 11:53] Matt CMPNetwork: its all good

[2011/11/22 11:53] sim core: :-S Saw the lost attachments at zero-zero, not badly placed though and I thought it was mostly viewer related

[2011/11/22 11:53] Richardus Raymaker: sorry justin, we still dont hav ebreakable glass in osgrid

[2011/11/22 11:53] Ni LemonBrinner: Good evening all

[2011/11/22 11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the status on the lost & found at 0,0,0 of attachments? Anyone else seen that again recently?

[2011/11/22 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: Hi Ni

[2011/11/22 11:53] sim core: * A while back

[2011/11/22 11:53] Matt CMPNetwork: oh i did notice 1 thing

[2011/11/22 11:53] Matt CMPNetwork: justin question about lost and found issue

[2011/11/22 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: Andrew: I hadn't head of that

[2011/11/22 11:53] Matt CMPNetwork: i noticed with items when you collect them they are going into lost and found

[2011/11/22 11:53] Matt CMPNetwork: instead of inventory

[2011/11/22 11:53] Richardus Raymaker: or trashcan matt

[2011/11/22 11:53] Key Gruin: nebadon, you found some stuff at 255,255,0 right?

[2011/11/22 11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: collect?

[2011/11/22 11:54] Richardus Raymaker: made a while ago a mantis

[2011/11/22 11:54] Matt CMPNetwork: yeah collect - take

[2011/11/22 11:54] Sarah Kline: if you sit on a prim then delete it you end up at 0.0.0 )

[2011/11/22 11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, np. Just asking as nebadon recently found a stash of stuff at 0/0/0 recently

[2011/11/22 11:54] Matt CMPNetwork: when you take them back from rezzing them

[2011/11/22 11:54] Matt CMPNetwork: they go into trash can or lost and found

[2011/11/22 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: yeah, that's a bug that should be fixed :)

[2011/11/22 11:54] Richardus Raymaker: if you take objkect or return justin. the dont always end where you expect them.

[2011/11/22 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: you go into someone's pocket

[2011/11/22 11:54] Sarah Kline: heheh

[2011/11/22 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, that sounds like a bug of some description

[2011/11/22 11:54] sim core: :-J Sitting is supposed to send you to zero-zero I believe

[2011/11/22 11:54] Matt CMPNetwork: yeah

[2011/11/22 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: or your own pocket...

[2011/11/22 11:54] Matt CMPNetwork: also about groups

[2011/11/22 11:54] Matt CMPNetwork: when will that module be fixed

[2011/11/22 11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: sitting attached you as a link object to the prim, if it has a sit target

[2011/11/22 11:55] Matt CMPNetwork: so if someone throws a message to a group it wont lag your system or server

[2011/11/22 11:55] Richardus Raymaker: its same as rezz object from inventory folder. then delete the folder. then take object back. the objects ends in the trashcan in the deleted folder

[2011/11/22 11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Matt, when are you planning on providing the fixes? ;-)

[2011/11/22 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: matt: it's not a consistent problem

[2011/11/22 11:55] Matt CMPNetwork: it always likes to bog down my server when someone says notices or messages a certain group

[2011/11/22 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: probably won't be fixed for quite a while

[2011/11/22 11:55] sim core: ( untill the buffered data frees up)

[2011/11/22 11:55] Matt CMPNetwork: ok just curious

[2011/11/22 11:55] Matt CMPNetwork: thats my questions ha

[2011/11/22 11:55] Matt CMPNetwork: i am good now :P

[2011/11/22 11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I entertain vague thoughts of doing a core implementation of groups, but tjust don't get the time

[2011/11/22 11:55] Richardus Raymaker: disable group chat matt

[2011/11/22 11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Group stuff should be made a module that doesn't need an external PHP stuff

[2011/11/22 11:55] Matt CMPNetwork: no no its not that

[2011/11/22 11:55] Matt CMPNetwork: say someone is on my sim

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: they blast a message out to a group

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: and i get this killer error notices on my console

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: when i am logged into ssh

[2011/11/22 11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: error notices?

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: spits out all sorts of group stuff

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: yeah

[2011/11/22 11:56] BlueWall Slade: if the group is large, the database has to store one for each

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: and bogs down the memory

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: hardcore

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: it almost is like a memory leak

[2011/11/22 11:56] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, why is http://opensimulator.org many times so terrible slow ?

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: to some degree with that group message notice

[2011/11/22 11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: If it is spttingout red text, capture the info and paste it somewhere so it can be looked at.

[2011/11/22 11:56] BlueWall Slade: well, it stores one for each member whether it's large or small.

[2011/11/22 11:56] Matt CMPNetwork: i did

[2011/11/22 11:57] Matt CMPNetwork: i had posted it on mantis

[2011/11/22 11:57] Matt CMPNetwork: about that group issue

[2011/11/22 11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: bug #?

[2011/11/22 11:57] Matt CMPNetwork: yeah mantis on opensimulator posted it

[2011/11/22 11:57] Richardus Raymaker: i wanted to fin my mantis, but page dont load

[2011/11/22 11:57] Matt CMPNetwork: hey Key

[2011/11/22 11:57] Matt CMPNetwork: sup homer

[2011/11/22 11:57] Richardus Raymaker: hi key

[2011/11/22 11:57] Key Gruin: hi Matt Rich

[2011/11/22 11:57] Gennifer Eros: Evening key

[2011/11/22 11:57] Key Gruin: hi Gennifer

[2011/11/22 11:58] Matt CMPNetwork: good good

[2011/11/22 11:58] Matt CMPNetwork: thank you

[2011/11/22 11:58] Richardus Raymaker: ok, cant access the webpage. its waiting

[2011/11/22 11:58] Richardus Raymaker: hehe..

[2011/11/22 11:59] Ni LemonBrinner: one question please, when we get our inventory folders in OpenSim Library, how can we delete them there? The folders stay and I only could get back by copy paste the full perms items.

[2011/11/22 11:59] Richardus Raymaker: this one is copnfirmed. but i think its also todo with lost & found. http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5767

[2011/11/22 11:59] Nebadon Izumi: you have to copy it Ni

[2011/11/22 11:59] Nebadon Izumi: the whole thing

[2011/11/22 11:59] Nebadon Izumi: right click the item

[2011/11/22 11:59] Nebadon Izumi: say its a script

[2011/11/22 11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: ok

[2011/11/22 12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Matt, if I can find the group bug in mantis, I'll put a watch on it. Search, Profile, and Groups stuff are things I am interested to work on.

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5797

[2011/11/22 12:00] Nebadon Izumi: then paste it into primary inventory

[2011/11/22 12:00] Nebadon Izumi: no getting around that

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: there is my issue

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5797

[2011/11/22 12:00] Ni LemonBrinner: thks Neb

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: when that happens

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: my server gets nailed hard

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: just spits out red errors and then it actually crashed my whole server a couple times

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: even my music sites were down database wise

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: i had to do a total cold reboot

[2011/11/22 12:00] Matt CMPNetwork: that sorta sucked

[2011/11/22 12:00] Richardus Raymaker: wich version you use now ?

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: version of opensim?

[2011/11/22 12:01] Richardus Raymaker: yes

[2011/11/22 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: matt: there isn't enough detail in that mantis.

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: newest one

[2011/11/22 12:01] Key Gruin: is there a mantis for being stuck walking in place?

[2011/11/22 12:01] Mimetic Core: lol

[2011/11/22 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: You need to attach the reelevant log

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: well that was the only output it showed

[2011/11/22 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: key: no, but there should be

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: in the console before it crashed

[2011/11/22 12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, timeout issues accessing the XMLrpc stuff.

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: and i had to reload whole system

[2011/11/22 12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: matt: why are you talking about red spewing errors then?

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: that was what it was spitting out

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: in red

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: ha

[2011/11/22 12:01] Matt CMPNetwork: and bottom part in yellow

[2011/11/22 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: spewing would be lots of errors

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: ow

[2011/11/22 12:02] Gennifer Eros: I get a number of yellow warning but no red errors

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: well it just kept repeating that error

[2011/11/22 12:02] Nebadon Izumi: probably a thread lock

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: over and over

[2011/11/22 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: matt: are you running on mono?

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: yup

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: sent you a Im about that

[2011/11/22 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: no, I suspect the client is gcontinually making the request and not being happy with th eresponse

[2011/11/22 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, can't deal with IM

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: i use a dedicated server linux CentOs

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: 64 bit

[2011/11/22 12:02] Matt CMPNetwork: 4 gigs memory and 3 gig processor

[2011/11/22 12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you remember seeing that before?

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: oh hey neb

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: :)

[2011/11/22 12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: some rogue client doing it, it seemed

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: yeah it was nerfed hard lol

[2011/11/22 12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: matt: okay, you need to run with the --debug switch to get line numbers

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: i think they were inviting friends

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: from a group or posting

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: the surl

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: and it tried to send everyone a offline message as well

[2011/11/22 12:03] Matt CMPNetwork: i noticed that too

[2011/11/22 12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to get going. Got some errands to run then I can finish reviewing changes in 69 files to make sure no changes slipped in that I didn't want.

[2011/11/22 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the Group spew?

[2011/11/22 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya we see it occasionaly

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: yeah

[2011/11/22 12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah

[2011/11/22 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: probably best to turn off Group Messaging

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: but

[2011/11/22 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: in OpenSim.ini

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: oww ok

[2011/11/22 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its off on all the plazas i think

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: so if i do that

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: it wont allow people to message groups on my sim right?

[2011/11/22 12:04] Nebadon Izumi: let me look

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: so the downside

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: would be what about my group

[2011/11/22 12:04] Matt CMPNetwork: for my music site and region

[2011/11/22 12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there a generic class (or something) in OS for issuing DB queries?

[2011/11/22 12:05] Matt CMPNetwork: that would be down too as well right?

[2011/11/22 12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: building and/or issuing

[2011/11/22 12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: Andrew: it's all in the OpenSim.Data packages

[2011/11/22 12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: k, that makes sense.

[2011/11/22 12:05] Richardus Raymaker: matt, you can disable group IM. but group notices etc keep working

[2011/11/22 12:05] Matt CMPNetwork: cool

[2011/11/22 12:05] Matt CMPNetwork: now that i will do

[2011/11/22 12:05] Matt CMPNetwork: lol

[2011/11/22 12:05] Nebadon Izumi: MessagingEnabled = false

[2011/11/22 12:05] Matt CMPNetwork: now will it prevent them from sending a group IM to other groups

[2011/11/22 12:05] Matt CMPNetwork: while they are on my sim

[2011/11/22 12:05] Matt CMPNetwork: so it wont overload my system with there client

[2011/11/22 12:06] Richardus Raymaker: yes, and recieve Im is blocked to

[2011/11/22 12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: See you all next week

[2011/11/22 12:06] Matt CMPNetwork: fabulous

[2011/11/22 12:06] Richardus Raymaker: bye andrew

[2011/11/22 12:06] Sarah Kline: bye andrew

[2011/11/22 12:06] Matt CMPNetwork: going to totally nail that in the coffin

[2011/11/22 12:06] Matt CMPNetwork: ha

[2011/11/22 12:06] BlueWall Slade: bye Andrew

[2011/11/22 12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: bye andrew

[2011/11/22 12:06] Matt CMPNetwork: i have 1 more error i see alot

[2011/11/22 12:06] Matt CMPNetwork: and i think you responded to that justin

[2011/11/22 12:06] Matt CMPNetwork: somethign about the git

[2011/11/22 12:07] Matt CMPNetwork: or wait until the next release build

[2011/11/22 12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: mantis number?

[2011/11/22 12:07] Matt CMPNetwork: hold on

[2011/11/22 12:07] Matt CMPNetwork: let me grab it

[2011/11/22 12:07] Matt CMPNetwork: gotta wait sites overloaded

[2011/11/22 12:07] sim core: :-J

[2011/11/22 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: what site is overloaded?

[2011/11/22 12:08] Matt CMPNetwork: opensimulator

[2011/11/22 12:08] Richardus Raymaker: opensimulator.org is terrible slow. dont load pages

[2011/11/22 12:08] Matt CMPNetwork: cannot even get to the login page

[2011/11/22 12:08] Matt CMPNetwork: for mantis

[2011/11/22 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[2011/11/22 12:08] Matt CMPNetwork: give your hampsters some crack

[2011/11/22 12:08] Matt CMPNetwork: tell them to hurry up

[2011/11/22 12:08] Nebadon Izumi: hmm

[2011/11/22 12:08] Matt CMPNetwork: lol

[2011/11/22 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: server is hardly using any CPU

[2011/11/22 12:09] Richardus Raymaker: or turn some lights off matt :)

[2011/11/22 12:09] Matt CMPNetwork: bandwidth ?

[2011/11/22 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: not using any IP either

[2011/11/22 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: let me check

[2011/11/22 12:09] Matt CMPNetwork: err database

[2011/11/22 12:09] Matt CMPNetwork: could be spiked

[2011/11/22 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: sorry, just pre-empted and restarted opensim

[2011/11/22 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: er, apahce

[2011/11/22 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: apache

[2011/11/22 12:09] Matt CMPNetwork: prolly mysqld issue

[2011/11/22 12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: there was hardly any accessing being done, not sure what is going wrong

[2011/11/22 12:09] Matt CMPNetwork: with apache

[2011/11/22 12:09] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok

[2011/11/22 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it feels better

[2011/11/22 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I think you're guessing too much, Matt

[2011/11/22 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe memory

[2011/11/22 12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I just restarted apache

[2011/11/22 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: wasnt swapping

[2011/11/22 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats wierd

[2011/11/22 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: feels better though

[2011/11/22 12:10] Matt CMPNetwork: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5718

[2011/11/22 12:10] Matt CMPNetwork: there ya go

[2011/11/22 12:10] Nebadon Izumi: its like 1000 times faster now

[2011/11/22 12:10] Matt CMPNetwork: that is the one you replied to

[2011/11/22 12:10] Matt CMPNetwork: :)

[2011/11/22 12:10] Matt CMPNetwork: but i posted another comment back

[2011/11/22 12:10] Matt CMPNetwork: at the end comment

[2011/11/22 12:11] Matt CMPNetwork: that is pretty much the only other error i got beyond the group issue

[2011/11/22 12:11] Richardus Raymaker: wish we could make a mega region out of more opensim instances. spread load much better :O

[2011/11/22 12:11] Matt CMPNetwork: other then that just the server likes to spike below 30 FPS

[2011/11/22 12:11] Matt CMPNetwork: and sets off my lag detectors richardus made for me ha

[2011/11/22 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no, it's right down again

[2011/11/22 12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: Matt: in that mantis you implied it was fixed in the last comment

[2011/11/22 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: each mantis should have only one problem in it

[2011/11/22 12:12] Matt CMPNetwork: no no

[2011/11/22 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: the console issue is well know - it's not fatal

[2011/11/22 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: must be something network related at cari.net

[2011/11/22 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: the machine looks fine

[2011/11/22 12:12] Matt CMPNetwork: i just said i had updated my opensim

[2011/11/22 12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its not io bound or out of cpu or memory

[2011/11/22 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe - but it that case restart apache2 shouldn't fix it

[2011/11/22 12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: matt: no, your last comment says something different

[2011/11/22 12:13] Matt CMPNetwork: hold on

[2011/11/22 12:13] Matt CMPNetwork: the last comment i will pastebin it

[2011/11/22 12:13] Matt CMPNetwork: http://pastebin.com/vpuVsd30

[2011/11/22 12:13] Matt CMPNetwork: that was the very last comment to that mantis

[2011/11/22 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: exactly, that's an entirely different issue

[2011/11/22 12:14] Matt CMPNetwork: oh

[2011/11/22 12:14] Matt CMPNetwork: hurmm

[2011/11/22 12:14] Matt CMPNetwork: ok

[2011/11/22 12:14] Matt CMPNetwork: then new tech report?

[2011/11/22 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: see if one exists first

[2011/11/22 12:14] Richardus Raymaker: sounds like a script error

[2011/11/22 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: this is actually a well known issue where the solution isn't known

[2011/11/22 12:14] Matt CMPNetwork: aww ok

[2011/11/22 12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: no it doens't

[2011/11/22 12:14] Richardus Raymaker: think i have seen it as lsl error to

[2011/11/22 12:14] Nebadon Izumi: i installed iftop on opensimulator

[2011/11/22 12:14] Matt CMPNetwork: so no solution fix right

[2011/11/22 12:14] Richardus Raymaker: hmm ok

[2011/11/22 12:14] Nebadon Izumi: no one is sucking up all the bandwidth

[2011/11/22 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: maybe something at data center

[2011/11/22 12:15] Nebadon Izumi: let me check

[2011/11/22 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: no known fix

[2011/11/22 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: jus tignore it

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: ok

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: good to know

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: checks of list :)

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: ok physics and elevators and vehicles

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: lol

[2011/11/22 12:15] Sarah Kline: Bye all see you next week

[2011/11/22 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: alright, I have to to go

[2011/11/22 12:15] Gennifer Eros: Bye sarah

[2011/11/22 12:15] Ni LemonBrinner: bye Sarah

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: when or is that ever possible?

[2011/11/22 12:15] Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah, folks

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: aww well it was nice to meet you

[2011/11/22 12:15] Matt CMPNetwork: briefly :)

[2011/11/22 12:16] Matt CMPNetwork: thanks for the heads up on them issues

[2011/11/22 12:16] Chrysocolla Rau: Cheerio

[2011/11/22 12:16] Matt CMPNetwork: i will kill group IMS

[2011/11/22 12:16] Ni LemonBrinner: bye Justin