Chat log from the meeting on 2009-05-12



Visitor List:

Nebadon Izumi

Starky Rubble

Jorge Zulaman

Master Dubrovna

Orion Hax

Ideia Boa

Patch Ferber

Kaytie Kohime

Woutch Verstraeten

Charles Krinke

Brent Seidel

Snoopy Pfeffer

Justin Clark-Casey

Richardus Raymaker

Teravus Ousley

M1sha Dallin

Kitto Flora

Maria Korolov

Aramis Soren

Kanel Aloha

tx Oh

Jeff 1564

BlueWall Slade

Star Design

Total = 24

[10:03] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9489 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True

[10:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: with mono 2.5 and the new opensim vesions I have less of such script problems

[10:03] Richardus Raymaker: snoopy. how are your regions running. its seems mine crash/freeze/ dont react good at teleports after 14 hours or so. thats very bad comapred with the 48+ hours with 9395

[10:03] Richardus Raymaker: can someone get me from 0.0.0 ?

[10:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Rich

[10:03] Teravus Ousley is Online

[10:03] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:03] Connected

[10:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: and hello Charles, Orion and Master

[10:04] Compile successful

[10:04] Orion Hax: hello

[10:04] Richardus Raymaker: relog.

[10:04] Youtube Video Player v1.1:

[10:04] Youtube Video Player v1.1:

[10:04] M1sha Dallin: Hi

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: qhq

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: aha

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: its the website

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: the resolves the youtube urls

[10:04] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Teravus

[10:04] Charles Krinke: Morning, Snoopy, and all. Thanks for coming to our "Office Hour". Hopefully it will not be a furball todqy.

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: i changed services

[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: now its working

[10:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[10:05] Justin Clark-Casey: hello teravus

[10:05] Ideia Boa: it's your shadows

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: no its youtubemp4.com website

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i think they are having latency issues

[10:05] Richardus Raymaker is Online

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: i switch back to tx ohs server

[10:05] Nebadon Izumi: now its working

[10:05] Snoopy Pfeffer: no what is there? :)

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: i think the youtubemp4 server is in japan

[10:06] Ideia Boa: soetimes it don't work for me too, it's not the script

[10:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: so its probably latency

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: cause the URLs are not loading in browser either

[10:06] Snoopy Pfeffer: wb Rich

[10:06] Brent Seidel: I hope that's not an example of how these meetings run ;-)

[10:06] Nebadon Izumi: ? Brent?

[10:07] Richardus Raymaker: yes. where stuck on 0.0.0

[10:07] Brent Seidel: The guys on the video whaling on each other with swords.

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: oh

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: so we will discuss yesterday's issues only? ;)

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: i as just teting the video player

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt working

[10:07] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[10:07] Charles Krinke: Lets start with our normal first question. "Can we advance the 'recommended' version for this week?"

[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: i just grabbed a url from youtube

[10:07] Teravus Ousley: I must relog!

[10:07] Teravus Ousley is Offline

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: well i think the version this simulator is a nice safe place

[10:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: 9489 is good for me

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think 9489 is a good spot for the week

[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: ill ask again, are ther emore wher ethe region dont accept teleport after 14+ hours ? mine seems to not respond. not for my teleport. maby someone else need to look later today. before i restart

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: as you all noticed i had to shut off groups

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: we found some nasties

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: and i didnt want anyones regions to be damaged

[10:08] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:08] Connected

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: so i just killed it really quick

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: one bug is fixed

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: one more to go

[10:08] Teravus Ousley is Online

[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: then we might be able to turn it back on

[10:08] Snoopy Pfeffer: is the groups issue only having to do with permissions?

[10:08] paulie Flomar is Online

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: it wasnt respecting perms

[10:09] Richardus Raymaker: i thnk 9498 feels betetr then 9489.

[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: in that case we could say: dont use it for permissions

[10:09] Charles Krinke: any objections to r9489 for the "recommended" version for the next week. Remember, this version is mostly for those who do not wish to be sacrificed upon the bleeding edge.

[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: just for communications

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: right now i have to say dont use scriptgs

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: sorry not scirpts

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: groups

[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[10:09] M1sha Dallin: Richardus - mine have been up 21 hours with no problems - 9495

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: i would turn it of until we say so

[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: it could result in damage to your regions

[10:09] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: the osgrid one is off for everyone

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: up yes. but can you try to teleport later today to a region i cannot enter.

[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have reported a bug that appears when you reclaim group owned land

[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: the dont crash.

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: but if your using mcortez server here on osgrid

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest you disable it

[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: you can only fix that in the database

[10:10] M1sha Dallin: I just tp'd from there

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: if your not working directly with mcortez

[10:10] paulie Flomar is Offline

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: Snoopy its worse than thaqt

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: someone could erase your prims

[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: really?

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: thats why its off

[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: just group owned prims?

[10:10] Maria Korolov: hi guys

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: no

[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: all your prims

[10:10] Snoopy Pfeffer: oh oh :(

[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: wow

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe yes

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: why i ripped the cord out of the wall on groups

[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is nasty

[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: hm

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: were working on it

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: i might even have something later today

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: no promises though

[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: I also read what Melanie said on IRC

[10:11] Snoopy Pfeffer: it looks like some fundamental redesign might be good

[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: the deleting all your prims is fixed

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: if your on head

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: no more worries about that issue

[10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: splitting group permissions and group communications in the source code

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: the only issue left now

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: is anyone can hijack a group

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: become owner

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: kick everyone out

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: and make it their own

[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: thats the next bug to be squashed

[10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes hijacking a group is less of a problem I thing, if noone uses it for permissions

[10:12] Snoopy Pfeffer: think*

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: till it is fixed in the code

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: but i would rather it be fixed

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: before we resume testing

[10:13] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[10:13] Teravus Ousley: who's taking point on that?

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: mcortez and melanie

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: have been laying in perms fixes

[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: the bad bug is fixed by mealnie

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: melanie

[10:14] paela argus is Online

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: the one were you could erase a sim

[10:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: Neb did you test it already?

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:14] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i'll be working with mcortez later

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: to get past other issues in a timely fashion

[10:14] Charles Krinke: More on groups? Can we move on? We can come back and talk about groups more after we get all the items on the table, and I think there are a few more.

[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: sure

[10:14] paulie Flomar is Online

[10:15] Charles Krinke: I think one of the next issues is vendors selling at zero $ or 1$ things like the "beta boat" and "parcels on regions"

[10:15] Snoopy Pfeffer: in general I see that residents like groups, so it would be cool to be able to enable it soon again

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya one thing brought to my attention

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: that could be semi problematic of removing the currency module

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: its minor

[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: but you can not set a parcel of land for sale for 0L

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: unless you specify the avatars name

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: not a huge deal

[10:16] paulie Flomar is Offline

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: but it pretty much kills land selling unless you know whos buying it

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats really the only thing that is a problem that i know of at the moment

[10:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that is not nice, but acceptable for now

[10:16] Charles Krinke: Even if the money is transferred outside the scope of the grid, we cannot have automatic transfers?

[10:16] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi tx

[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: we can

[10:17] Richardus Raymaker: thats always so, i think its in sl the same way that you cannot sell land to everybody for 0L$

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: if you drop the money module in

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: it works

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: its only if you dont add the currency module

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: that land sales to anyone is impossible

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you have to know their name

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: and set the land for sale to only them

[10:17] Charles Krinke: Perhaps that is the next issue, and that is "Should we define some currency module testing on OSGrid to help keep the software going in the right direction?"

[10:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: what about objects sales for L$0?

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: then you can set it for 0L

[10:17] Snoopy Pfeffer: does that work?

[10:17] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:17] Connected

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you can set objects for sale now

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: but

[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: you must change your OpenSim.ini

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: and

[10:18] tx Oh: i'm happy with no money

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: you can only set it for 0L

[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: I need that at my shops

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: setting it for 1L

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: will give you a pop up

[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: saying this region is not currency enabled

[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: perfect

[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: )

[10:18] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya diff the opensim.ini.example

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: the currency section

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: set it to true

[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: the new option

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: then set for sale for 0L will work

[10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: Neb, the ini on osgrid.org?

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: no

[10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: ini example?

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: our release does not support it

[10:19] Starky Rubble: Docs would help especially since many have trouble with the forge/compiling process which is their only option

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: 9495 is required

[10:19] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:19] Connected

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: so the svn example for 9495+

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: will conatin what you need

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: once i make a new release our ini will have it

[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: and i'll make sure its on by default

[10:19] Snoopy Pfeffer: Starky I have written something for Linux on my blog

[10:19] Starky Rubble: cool

[10:19] Michelle Argus is Offline

[10:20] Charles Krinke: Haaaalllllppp. Volunteers helping write more "wiki-docs" needed desperately. We are being overwhelmed by the documentation monster.

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: hehehe

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya

[10:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: if you guys do test this

[10:20] Brent Seidel: I can write documentation.

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: and have an extra 2 minutes

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: plase do a quick write up

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i wish i had the time

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: but i dont

[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i have not tested any of the currency stuff

[10:20] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have tried to add some links in the wiki but it did not work

[10:21] Charles Krinke: Start with a "FAQ" entry if you wish. Nothing verbose if you dont have the time. At the least, give a clue for the next guy/gal along the path.

[10:21] Michelle Argus is Online

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: we will be relying on all of you

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: to test / report / document it

[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: teravus: you can't hear me?

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: doh

[10:21] Teravus Ousley: newp

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: my voice volume was at 0

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:21] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: i hear you

[10:21] Charles Krinke: We have no "documentation department". In fact we have no "departments" at all. So, all of this develoment, testing and documentation is at the discretion of volunteers.

[10:22] Kitto Flora: 5 bars

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya if anyone here is looking for a job

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt have programming skills

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: DOCUMENT!!!

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: and gooo!

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:22] Charles Krinke: bad hours, no pay, lots of criticism and all the plywood boxen you can carry

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: if you need help getting started with wiki editing

[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: just let me know

[10:23] Nebadon Izumi: i can help you get started

[10:23] Charles Krinke: I think the punchline here is we need more community help to document OpenSim as the monster gets more complicated each week.

[10:23] Orion Hax: imagine never seeing anyone again over the moutian of paperwork

[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: anything else you wanted to discuss today Charles?

[10:24] Charles Krinke: Well, our success will eventually be determined by our ability to communicate all this techno-babble to each other and to new adopters.

[10:24] Charles Krinke: I heard last night that HyperGrid gates were not working from Bri. Are others having problems with HyperGrid gates with recent revisions?

[10:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:25] Richardus Raymaker: waiting for new gate.

[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: say list

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Visitor List:

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Starky Rubble

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Jorge Zulaman

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Master Dubrovna

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Orion Hax

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Ideia Boa

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Patch Ferber

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kaytie Kohime

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Woutch Verstraeten

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Charles Krinke

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Brent Seidel

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Snoopy Pfeffer

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Justin Clark-Casey

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Richardus Raymaker

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Teravus Ousley

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: M1sha Dallin

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kitto Flora

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Maria Korolov

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Aramis Soren

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Kanel Aloha

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: tx Oh

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Jeff 1564

[10:25] Visitor List Recorder v1.1: Total = 21

[10:25] Maria Korolov: some of my gates work

[10:25] Snoopy Pfeffer: what is the redesign about Diva starts?

[10:26] Starky Rubble: I was expeimenting with them last night - they were fine

[10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: will that cause major protocol changes

[10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: ?

[10:26] Charles Krinke: Diva is working on improving security related notions concerning HyperGrid

[10:26] Snoopy Pfeffer: ah ok :)

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: let me send you some shirts

[10:26] Charles Krinke: That will most likel causesome bmps in the road.

[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: you get some bailout money with that shirt Justin?

[10:27] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think in general we would need a security audit before version 1.0

[10:27] Richardus Raymaker: i freeze again again after teleport

[10:27] Teravus Ousley: :)

[10:27] Charles Krinke: remember, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Sometimes 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: thats a folder of shirts justin

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.

[10:27] Teravus Ousley: Some times it's 3 steps forward and everyone around says, ooh.. we've never seen that before.

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: i did promise you at some point i would give you stuff

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.

[10:27] Charles Krinke: Teravus, Justin, Anything you wish to add to the smorgasboard on our overflowing table today?

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.

[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey accepted your inventory offer.

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: there you go

[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: so here ya go :)

[10:28] Ideia Boa: free shirts, uau

[10:28] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool vid :)

[10:28] Teravus Ousley: Atomic Electron cloud ftw!

[10:28] Starky Rubble: How about an overview of the refactoring project?

[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles: I don't think I need to add to the oveflow further

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: im not sure anyone here is really qualified to talk about the refactor

[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: overflow

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: but if you are

[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: please do speak up

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: mostly its security

[10:29] Starky Rubble: heh

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: that i do know

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: but the explicit details

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: i really am unsure

[10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: is there some document discussing the planned final architecture?

[10:29] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:29] Connected

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: the source code :P

[10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: heeh

[10:29] Starky Rubble: executive summary...

[10:29] Snoopy Pfeffer: like usual :)

[10:29] Charles Krinke: Ok, how do we divide and conquer the issues brought up today?

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: not yet no

[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: so much will change

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: that by the time we finish documenting it

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: it wont be valid

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: there is no planned final architecture

[10:30] Charles Krinke: Shoot, Snoopy. We are making it up as we go along.

[10:30] Starky Rubble: the pace is daunting

[10:30] Starky Rubble: in a good way lol

[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya its hard to keep up

[10:31] Charles Krinke: Like all of you, when something I like or depend upon stops working, I am frustrated. But yet, this project seems to keep on growing momentum.

[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: ok. it seems teleport freeze is something at my side

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: especially when a bug gums up the gears

[10:31] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:31] Connected

[10:31] Maria Korolov: bring n a bunch of enemployabe collge stuents as interns to go around and write everything up

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya might not be a bad idea

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: problem is documenting is time consuming

[10:31] paela argus is Online

[10:31] Maria Korolov: you guys are a non-profit no: advertise this. they'll be helping history be made.

[10:31] Charles Krinke: I do want to re-iterate the goals of OSGrid a a moment as I heard some blogging that was mis-informed over the weekend.

[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: and generally changes by the time you get it done

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: but we do need to try

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: its not a good excuse to not try

[10:32] Brent Seidel: unemployeed aerospace engineers - they live on documentation.

[10:32] Brent Seidel: I know, I'm one.

[10:32] Snoopy Pfeffer: I am busy convincing a well know documentary filmer to add an outlook section to his sl documentary about the future of virtual worlds, including opensim

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:32] Charles Krinke: There are two goals to OSGrid. 1) Test, deploy, mantis, patch and improve OpenSim. 2) Develop a vibrant, long-term community.

[10:32] Snoopy Pfeffer: and he is interested

[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: if you can convince people to document that would be very nice. But generally. no-one does

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: most people are exicted about documenting

[10:32] Nebadon Izumi: until 15 minutes in

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: then we never see them ever again

[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: It really has to be the people developing, reverse engineering to document takes extraordinary amounts of time

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah :)

[10:33] Charles Krinke: I would say that to the extent us testers can help the developers by documenting, we help the pace of development. After all,, most developers are allergic to documentation anyway.

[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: only the bad ones :)

[10:33] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes that is the topic: most of us are developers lol

[10:34] Teravus Ousley: midlife crisis

[10:34] Teravus Ousley: always the high heels..

[10:34] Aramis Soren: what's the plan for r10000? anything special?

[10:34] Teravus Ousley: why.. the high heels.

[10:34] Starky Rubble: hehe

[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, don't think neb gave me any high heels, surprisingly

[10:34] paela argus is Offline

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: not sure about r10k plans

[10:34] Charles Krinke: yes. Declare as 1.0, finish the project, go into Beta 

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: planning for r10k plans is hard

[10:35] Orion Hax: be like M$ and go straight to RC

[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: speaking of which, any plans to release 0.6.5?

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: considering 10k might be the worst bug we ever experience

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt be fun to celebrate that

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya never do know

[10:35] Snoopy Pfeffer: I am sure there are more security issues that need to be checked before 1.0

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: but i think if we make it past 10k

[10:35] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:35] Connected

[10:35] Aramis Soren: no but something to pat the devs on the back would be nice

[10:35] Charles Krinke: Good point. "How do we get to a 0.6.5 with comfort from a majority of folks here?"

[10:35] Nebadon Izumi: it worthy of celebrating

[10:36] paela argus is Online

[10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: any idea how to get some independent security guys to have a look?

[10:36] Aramis Soren: a day off? a day to actually Play with os?

[10:36] Justin Clark-Casey: you're breaking up Mr T!

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya im not planning a relase today

[10:36] paela argus is Offline

[10:36] Brent Seidel: You might want to talk to the OpenBSD guys about security audits.

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: we need to fix groups

[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: then i will do a relase

[10:36] Starky Rubble: yes

[10:36] Brent Seidel: They might be able to provide some pointers.

[10:36] Teravus Ousley: grodowns

[10:36] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes groups should have priority before releasing anything

[10:37] Charles Krinke: My opinion is that by using OpenSim in a live grid such as OSgrid, we expose many more security issues (and fix them) then any "pontificating consultants" are worth.

[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have time to help with groups

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: cool snoopy i think mcortez needs volunteers

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: #osgroups

[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: for those interested in working with mcortez

[10:37] Snoopy Pfeffer: thanks

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest if your not working with him

[10:37] Nebadon Izumi: shut off groups

[10:38] Teravus Ousley: unless of course.. if all your content is freely available and you have a really recent backup of your region :)

[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: and when im comfortable i'll anounce when its safe again

[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: relatively safe anyway

[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:38] Charles Krinke: Ok, to balance this whole meeting out: "Is there any good news today?"

[10:38] Starky Rubble: hehe

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: this region hasnt crashd yet?

[10:39] paela argus is Online

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: hows that for good news

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:39] Charles Krinke: I would like to hear from anyone that has not been able to get a word in edgewise.

[10:39] Snoopy Pfeffer: my regions run very stable :)

[10:39] Maria Korolov: charles: yes. I came here from a 9395 region. so my TP wrks!

[10:39] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

[10:39] Charles Krinke: coolness, Maria

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: maria yes

[10:39] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think you can get back though

[10:39] Maria Korolov: charles: and it's been up for a week, zero downtime.

[10:40] Aramis Soren: how's the new asset server looking, big difference?

[10:40] Justin Clark-Casey is Online

[10:40] Maria Korolov: well, i can't have verything :-)

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: new asset services are holding up awesome

[10:40] paela argus is Offline

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: there is a stats board behind everyone

[10:40] Richardus Raymaker: i have seen that some still use /open port 8895. sofar i know its not in use anymore. so thats a bad point on wiki

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: showing the stats of the asset services

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ah yes Richardus

[10:40] Maria Korolov: yes -- that's th other good news. OSGrib Business Center is up on 89, and it just FLIES.

[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: the wiki needs a fixing for that im sure

[10:40] paela argus is Online

[10:40] Charles Krinke: I would like to urge all to look at the graphs of Wright Plaza and osgrid.org performance on the wall behind us, thanks to some "Nebadonic" efforts. They provide a very useful perspective.

[10:41] Charles Krinke: Maria might like to do something similar on "OSgrid Business Center"

[10:41] Maria Korolov: OSG BWC has been up for two days straight withno downtime. :-)9489...

[10:41] Charles Krinke: Along with "graffiti board" and "html-on-a-prim" demoes for business-types.

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of visitor counts are you seeing maria?

[10:42] Maria Korolov: chares: yes. we are looking for business tools.. we have a business supppy center we can put them in

[10:42] Maria Korolov: neb: we've had 2-4 visitors every morning during business hours, plus more later on htroughout the day

[10:42] BlueWall Slade is Online

[10:42] Charles Krinke: "graffiti board" is in the library, written by Justin. "html-on-a-prim" is available on the osgrid.org forums.

[10:42] Maria Korolov: chalres: we aso put up a vendor expo area, but vendors to put booths with graphics and hand-outs

[10:42] Starky Rubble: I I tp'ed and HG'ed there yesterday several times from various places including to and fro from my 9500 region a few times

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: cool im glad its running well anyway

[10:43] Ideia Boa: crash

[10:43] Richardus Raymaker: need to look after this on welcome area

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i need to script this couch so when i run past

[10:43] Maria Korolov: i havent donea big marketing campaign yet though because of stability issues

[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: i can trigger a crowd wave

[10:43] Maria Korolov: maybe next week

[10:43] Snoopy Pfeffer: Samsara gets about 100 uniq visitors during 2 days. during busy times it restarts about every 4 hours, otherwise it runs without restarts

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: cool

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: i reset the visitor list here before meeting

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: it was showing 89 people i think

[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: for last 3-4 days

[10:44] paela argus is Offline

[10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool

[10:44] Starky Rubble: Snoopy: Samsara- Mono?

[10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: looks like my shop is a busy spot in osgrid :=

[10:44] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: heh i tell everyone to go to samsara

[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: mono 2.5

[10:45] Starky Rubble: ok

[10:45] Richardus Raymaker: still on mono 2.4

[10:45] Charles Krinke: The network throughput graph in the bottom left corner shows the throughput for our meeting and is worth a look by anyone interested in network throughput.

[10:45] Maria Korolov: snoopy; i'm going t put u a boad at the business center. i'll include a link to your shop.

[10:45] Aramis Soren: whats the stats url, still hasn't shown for me here

[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: we have much more land here compared to sl :)

[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: http://osgrid.org/stats

[10:45] Snoopy Pfeffer: cool thanks Maria

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for the webserver / UGIM stats

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://assets.osgrid.org/stats

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for the asset server stats

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://plaza02.osgrid.org/stats

[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: for this simulator

[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: did you check my blog http://snoopypfeffer.wordpress.com ?

[10:47] Michelle Argus is Online

[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: it helps with Linux nstalltions

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: nice

[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: and also covers using Monit for service monitoring

[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: hi Justin

[10:47] Snoopy Pfeffer: lol

[10:47] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: your like 7 foot tall

[10:48] Charles Krinke: Anything to bring up from anyone that we did not cover yet?

[10:48] Richardus Raymaker: there's one problem. all the websites are so around everywhere that you not find them back :O

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: ya anyone has anything they want to talk about

[10:48] Maria Korolov: :-)

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: now would be the time :)

[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: I think we really have a problem with documentation

[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hehe

[10:48] Snoopy Pfeffer: many pages are not referenced from the top

[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: like the new extensions

[10:49] Ideia Boa: i can help, translation to portuguese

[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: ppl cannot find it

[10:49] Brent Seidel: I'll see if I can type a few words before I drift away ;-)

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: Snoopy feel free to add to the opensimulator.org wiki

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: anyone can change it

[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes I will try again :)

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: if your planning something drastic

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: please just let us know

[10:49] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:49] Connected

[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: we can discuss it so your not wasting your time

[10:49] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have tried to add something on the News page

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: having it all undone by a admin

[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: but it did not accept my changes

[10:50] Brent Seidel: I would like to add release notes based on the SVN history. Would the copyrights (if any) permit that?

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: did you register?

[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ok

[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: and I was logged in

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: well try again

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: if its a problem i'll check into it

[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: I saw my changes

[10:50] Charles Krinke: I see no issue, Brent

[10:50] Teravus Ousley: was it the grid page?

[10:50] Michelle Argus is Online

[10:50] Brent Seidel: OK. Thanks,

[10:50] Snoopy Pfeffer: but afterwards they were gone when I came back

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: its possible some pages are moderated

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: check the history

[10:50] Teravus Ousley: there are.. or were.. a few pages that are locked

[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: it will tell you what happened

[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes probably that is moderated

[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: probably this one

[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[10:51] Charles Krinke: Complaints? Recall petitions? Fire all and get new personalities?

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol

[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: hehe

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: if you need moderated pages changed

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i suggest talking with Sdague or Adam

[10:51] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:51] Connected

[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: or me

[10:51] Snoopy Pfeffer: btw I tried to contact Adam the last 2 days

[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i can not change it

[10:51] Aramis Soren: did i miss the "recommended version" for the week at start of meeting? still 9395 here seems ok

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: but im good at getting attention

[10:52] Snoopy Pfeffer: it is so difficult to find time with him

[10:52] Charles Krinke: 9489, I think. is that right, Nebadon?

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya if you strike out on them

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: come see me

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: yes

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: im happy with 9489

[10:52] Richardus Raymaker: hope 94xx gets just as stable as the old 9395 version with uptime. i need to reboot 94xx more.

[10:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats this weeks happy #

[10:53] BlueWall Slade: ++

[10:53] Richardus Raymaker: im a bit more happy with 9498

[10:53] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:53] Connected

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: ok well i will be updating by the weekend i suspect

[10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: or "lucky number"? ;)

[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: just hang in there

[10:53] Maria Korolov: except for Tor theTP robelms -- ou can' TP from 9489 to earlier regions

[10:53] Aramis Soren plays 9489 on the lottery

[10:53] Charles Krinke: The 'recommended' is merely to advise those who do not wish to be on the "bleeding edge" and can change each week. It will always be a moving target.

[10:53] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes hehe it's a bit like lottery Aramis

[10:54] Maria Korolov: so if you HAVE o connct tect t older regions, you'll have to wait fo them to upgrde

[10:54] Aramis Soren: right but it there is a tp cutoff, i should update later then

[10:54] Michelle Argus is Online

[10:54] Maria Korolov: aramis: that's y thining with my region

[10:54] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:54] Connected

[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: do older versions break new versions ?

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: shooudlnt

[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: bye Teravus

[10:55] BlueWall Slade: se ya Teravus

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: for a short bit it did

[10:55] Charles Krinke: There will come a time when the pace of updates may slow down for some regions on OSgrid. It appears we have lots of changes recently, but when the checkins slow down in a few months, we make wish to 'update' more slowly.

[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: but we have gotten past that

[10:55] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Teravus

[10:55] Teravus Ousley: see ya!

[10:55] Charles Krinke: bye, Teravus

[10:55] Teravus Ousley is Offline

[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: how are the svn stats looking now nebadon ?

[10:56] Ideia Boa: good work Teravus

[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: you hav esome list.. ?

[10:56] Charles Krinke: Anything you guys/gals can do to help BlueWall and Nebadon not be deluged by support on the #osgrid channel would help also. We need more support help for new users on both #opensim and #osgrid.

[10:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:56] Connected

[10:56] Michelle Argus is Online

[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: what kind of stats do you mean?

[10:57] Aramis Soren: ok can join #osgrid also i guess

[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: you monitor how many servers are runninbg bwich version

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: oh thats borked at the moment

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have good stats

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: i have to fix the website

[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: havent had a chance yet

[10:57] M1sha Dallin: Help there when I can Charles

[10:58] Richardus Raymaker: ok

[10:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:58] Connected

[10:59] Charles Krinke: This has been a good meeting. It 'feels' like we are communicating, and thats good.

[10:59] BlueWall Slade: Thanks, everybody, for helping us pull through this past weekend.

[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: i think everybody do. only killerfor me with help is the loopback problem

[10:59] Charles Krinke: Maybe we cannot always have ready answers, but as humans, we have to keep communicating to make it through this insanity

[10:59] Richardus Raymaker: there's no trick for that can be used for everybody ?

[10:59] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[10:59] Connected

[10:59] Snoopy Pfeffer: yes Charles :)

[10:59] M1sha Dallin: yep - my router supports it so I don't know how else it is solved

[10:59] Aramis Soren: no really depends on router

[11:00] Aramis Soren: some are using home routers ,some are linux box routers etc

[11:00] Snoopy Pfeffer: but we really can reduce the need for support if we all put more effort in documenting

[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: it seems there enough routers that dont support it

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: are we talking about loopback?

[11:00] Aramis Soren: yes

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i know alot of Netgear routers

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: dont support it

[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: netgear is bad in that regard

[11:00] Charles Krinke: Ok, I need to go pretend I am working. My heart is with OpenSim, but gotta pay them dumb bills.

[11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: I know that other open source projects even have sub projects for documentation

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye charles. I'm going to go too

[11:01] Charles Krinke is Offline

[11:01] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye folks

[11:01] Connected

[11:01] Aramis Soren: std linksys 4-port notwireless is fine here luckily

[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: bye charles

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Linksys and D-Link are good

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i use D-Link

[11:01] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye Justin

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: Netgear is just bad

[11:01] Aramis Soren: yeah we had a dlink up for 2 years on game server, pushed alot of packets thru that one

[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: their non commercial routers are bad

[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Offline

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok I need to go

[11:02] Aramis Soren: this was 704 i think, old style with metal case not cheap plastic one

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: some renters call lol

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok Snoopy

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: thanks for coming

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: see you

[11:02] BlueWall Slade: see ya Charles

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: I have joined the groups irc channel

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool :)

[11:02] BlueWall Slade: see ya Snoopy

[11:02] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.4.9489 (OS Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) Kernel \r on an \m) ChilTasks:True PhysPrim:True

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: lets discuss how to proceed with groups there

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[11:02] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[11:02] Connected

[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok sounds good

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: ok see you all :)

[11:02] Snoopy Pfeffer: bye

[11:03] Aramis Soren: cool no crashes today here woohoo!

[11:03] Michelle Argus is Online

[11:03] Richardus Raymaker: ssst

[11:03] Snoopy Pfeffer: :)

[11:03] Aramis Soren: later all

[11:04] Ideia Boa: only my Hippo crash 3 times

[11:04] M1sha Dallin: Time for me to plant some trees :-)

[11:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[11:04] Connected

[11:04] M1sha Dallin: bye all

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: bye M1sha