Chat log from the meeting on 2021-08-17

 [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie [11:04] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everybody [11:04] Kayaker Magic: Ubit! [11:04] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Jagga. Evening Ubit [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Ubit. [11:05] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Ubit [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Nothing much to report regarding code changes this past week. Only two changes were made with one being a minor bug fix and the other just changed the name of an internal function. [11:07] Ubit Umarov: yeha those devs are getting lazy [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: crazy lazy [11:08] Ubit Umarov: don't abuse :p [11:08] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they should be kicked off the project - all of them :-) [11:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no more pay – oh wait! nevermind... [11:09] Ubit Umarov: yeah details :) [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:10] Ubit Umarov: and what news do you have to share ( about opensim not afganistan ) [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I will have to update my MOSES regions which was modelled on a real valley in Afghanistan [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, you will need to remove any US flags and items related to US troops. :) [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: exactly [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or my avatar will be killed [11:12] Ubit Umarov: why talibans reshaped the terrain, or destroy again statues with tanks? [11:13] Ubit Umarov: need to dress all female npcs also [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I1l have to put out all the burkas again in the store there and stock it up with AK-47 [11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: + prim beards [11:14] Ubit Umarov: ohh yes we need to grow them bf tp there also [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no beard, auto eject [11:15] Ubit Umarov: that means you also :P [11:15] Ubit Umarov: but think hair is not mandatory [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to bring this gathering back to more relevant OS topics. [11:15] Jagga Meredith: still working on osTeleportAgent. Code calls...World.RequestTeleportLocation(presence.ControllingClient, regionName, position,                       lookat, (uint)TPFlags.ViaLocation);. Does it just accept lookat or does it modify it on the way back? [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: since I made this skin, I have a version with full beard too - just in case [11:17] Ubit Umarov: that only applies to local teleports [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, that is a Ubit or Gavin question. I haven't looked at the TP code. [11:17] Ubit Umarov: and on lookat, viewers are the boss [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: on the way back? [11:18] Ubit Umarov: what way back? [11:19] Jagga Meredith: from calling world.requestblah blah. [11:20] Jagga Meredith: was wondering if function was overwriting lookat [11:20] Ubit Umarov: no, that is a argument copied by value [11:20] Jagga Meredith: ok [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Is the lookat data being sent? [11:22] Ubit Umarov: yes [11:22] Jagga Meredith: apparentgly. it works 90 [11:22] Jagga Meredith: 5 of time [11:22] Jagga Meredith: :P% [11:23] Jagga Meredith: 90% [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: any pattern for when it does not work? [11:23] Jagga Meredith: I cant get it to break consistently [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: The next question is whether it is only sending the right look at values 90% of the time. If it always sends the right value then it may be something viewer side. [11:24] Jagga Meredith: usually first usage or after inactivity [11:25] Jagga Meredith: hence I agree with Ubit, suspect viewer [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like an event queue not picking it up properly [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: whaich viewers have you tested on? [11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which* [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, if you are digging in to code you could have the OS code output the LookAt value to the console so you can see if it is always right or not. [11:26] Jagga Meredith: FS. will try others [11:27] Jagga Meredith: ok [11:28] Ubit Umarov: any news about the animesh crossing kayaker ? [11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Viewers may have all sorts of lookat toggles, so - my have at least 3 custom ones [11:28] Kayaker Magic: No news on animesh, I was off having fun in RL for a week. [11:28] Jagga Meredith: aha! [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is so lazy [11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: having fun? shame.. [11:29] Kayaker Magic: So Ubit isn't the only one.... [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Having fun in RL? Is that allowed? ;) [11:30] Kayaker Magic: Kayaking Loon Lake near Tahoe, camping in the mountains. [11:30] Ubit Umarov: need check sharia on that kayaker [11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you bring your AK? [11:31] Ubit Umarov: gavin they now have usa guns also.. the ones usa gave to afgn army [11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: those are unused [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Let's not get on that track again until after the meeting is over. [11:32] Jagga Meredith: and everythin else except aircrafr(?) [11:33] Ubit Umarov: ( andrew beard is 2 short for a taliban no ? ) [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I was having a look in to the issue Mike.Lorrey mentioned last week. The best information I have about the feature is that it may have been removed at some point because it wasn't SL behaviour. [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I have yet to find the code or the INI setting that was related to the destination folder for uploaded (mesh) textures. [11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I also looked in various viewer code, but could not find any trace of it [11:34] Ubit Umarov: location is on protocol [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm hoping that checking for changes to the ini files may help track down when the code was changed. [11:35] Kayaker Magic: I always uploaded my textures separate from my mesh, so never saw the behavior Mike is complaining about. [11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suspect the last time I saw that working was in the Imprudence viewer [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't uploaded textured mesh so I've not noticed how the mesh textures are handled. [11:35] Ubit Umarov: i made changed upload code for ages, that does respect viewer locations rquests, but since has more changes, i still did not commit [11:36] Ubit Umarov: also ll may change mesh uploads, so kinda waiting [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the mesh optimization replacement for glod [11:36] Ubit Umarov: that issue is just that. It is viewer job to tell where to put the inventory items [11:37] Ubit Umarov: viewers do it [11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it really matter if the OS code has the (option of) where to put uploaded mesh textures? We say we don't need to be following SL 100%. [11:37] Ubit Umarov: just on viewers that is a static option basicly [11:37] Ubit Umarov: now on preferences, as a global setting [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as mentioned last time, I have absolutely seen the behavior he described, but that is ages ago [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Any idea which version of OS and/or viewer code when you last saw it? [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Imprudence viewer I think [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Any thoughts as to whether it is a viewer or back end code issue? [11:38] Jagga Meredith: could have that been an early version of viewer, a feature since dropped? [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. That would be rather old. [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: last version was built 2013-ish [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't have Imprudence any more. Haven't for along time. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: and we can not do that [11:39] Ubit Umarov: to keep in line with viewers [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'd have to build a virtual machine to be able to test something that old [11:40] Ubit Umarov: and they are very silly on inventory destiny locations [11:40] Ubit Umarov: on other places where we do chose a location, viewers put on default, then later move [11:41] Ubit Umarov: landmarks is a nonsense example [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: Can we even say whether the destination folder for textures associated with mesh is back-end or viewer side related, or both? [11:41] Ubit Umarov: bc default is Favorites bar.. that should not even get lms, but links to them [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'd say viewer side as long at the backend supports a destination [11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the model uploader knows all the textures to be uploaded (if any) and could place them accordingly [11:43] Ubit Umarov: viewer tells the folder for the object, and folder for texture on the upload [11:43] Ubit Umarov: so on that right action is: [11:44] Ubit Umarov: me commit my code :p [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. If it is viewer side the change may have been made by LL and other viewers just inherited the change. [11:44] Ubit Umarov: and ppl ask viewer devs to add folders selection dialog [11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think it was a change for the version 2.0 viewer [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, that would be an old change. [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewers like Imprudence, Cool and Singularity - which are basically 1.23 viewers may have had it longer [11:48] Jagga Meredith: I'm confused (as usual). I have favourites with no other LM's. If favourites are a link, where are its LM's? [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, you can right click the link and select "Find original". [11:50] Jagga Meredith: right-clicking a favourite not showing thast option [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Another hour is almost up. Any other topics for today? [11:51] Ubit Umarov: current they are not links [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, either the option is not in your viewer or the LM isn't a link [11:51] Ubit Umarov: but should be [11:51] Jagga Meredith: ah ok [11:51] Ubit Umarov: fav bar should be a special folder like current outfit [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I have an LM in Favourites which is a link. [11:52] Ubit Umarov: not a storage one [11:52] Jagga Meredith: makes sense [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Jagga, perhaps I should have been clearer. I was suggesting right-clicking the LM in the Favourites folder in Inventory. [11:52] Ubit Umarov: but well now ( fs at least) a new lm is uploaded there [11:53] Ubit Umarov: then viewer askes where you want it [11:53] Ubit Umarov: the it moves it [11:53] Ubit Umarov: cancel is a move to trash [11:53] Ubit Umarov: so silly [11:54] Ubit Umarov: ( similar when we give objects by im ) [11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cancel usually undoes what you are in the process of doing, and if you cancel the creation of a LM, it could just poof it, but they decided to move to trash for remorse [11:55] Ubit Umarov: that is bc by the time user sees the cancel btn it was already uploaded [11:56] Ubit Umarov: that code flow on viewers is just silly [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but they could just silently zap it [11:56] Ubit Umarov: that is another comand, to delete from trash :) [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't have that code flow [11:57] Ubit Umarov: think you do [11:57] Ubit Umarov: but there are recent ll changes fs did got [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: absolutely not :-) [11:58] Ubit Umarov: well in past lm was just placed on landmarks folder [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:58] Ubit Umarov: then someone decided to add fav bar [11:58] Ubit Umarov: then moved to it [11:58] Ubit Umarov: i mean uploaded to it [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is what I have [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 11:58] [Dayturn: You have added "HG The Meeting Place" to your Landmarks folder.] [11:59] Ubit Umarov: ofc if you made it, it must be a favority right? [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't have a Favorites folder [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have the folder, but it is not placed there on creaton or auto moved there [12:00] Ubit Umarov: then the option to pick destiny folder was added [12:00] Ubit Umarov: and they where lazy [12:00] Ubit Umarov: they just added the new dialog at the end of the upload already done [12:00] Ubit Umarov: a lot easier to code.. [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have the old creation flow as I stopped taking code for the new flow. I did not like it at all [12:01] Ubit Umarov: correct action should be ofc to ask where ( or cancel) and then do it [12:01] Ubit Umarov: but well.. viewers are strange things [12:02] Ubit Umarov: ( and have dark moons ) [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hah! [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:02] Ubit Umarov: and on inv tehre is also rlv [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have a colored moon, but if there is a cloud partly obscuring it, it becomes dark [12:03] Ubit Umarov: that is a hack on top of ll [12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: rlv is a massive hack and a real PITA to deal with [12:03] Ubit Umarov: soem rlv ops require exact sl inventory servers behaviour to work [12:04] Ubit Umarov: well details [12:04] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't really have a test environment set up for it. I always thought it was exceptionally silly [12:05] Ubit Umarov: i never had it active [12:05] Ubit Umarov: guess nice for some rpg [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it contaminated about 1900 source files for the viewer [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: contaminates* [12:06] Ubit Umarov: :) [12:07] Jagga Meredith: *gets out bug spray* [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Last call for any final comments/questions/thoughts for today. [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Preferably OS related. :) [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't see any signs of typing in progress. [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [12:09] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye all [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye Selby