Chat log from the meeting on 2013-06-25

[11:00] Ai Austin is online. [11:00] Ai Austin: :-) [11:00] Ai Austin: pronounced "hi" [11:00] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: white marble also seems vogue tonight [11:01] Teravus Ousley: Weird Ai [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: fonts are not so good anymore as in dos time [11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks [11:01] Ai Austin: get a retina display :-) [11:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin [11:01] Ai Austin: Hi Justin [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Ai [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks is online. [11:01] tommy Arkright is offline. [11:01] Teravus Ousley: howzit? [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: iPod Viewer? [11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Justin [11:02] Ai Austin: hello BlueWall - sorry for the flood of helpful "suggestions" :-) [11:02] Nebadon Izumi: hello Justin [11:02] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654 waves [11:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :) [11:02] tommy Arkright is online. [11:03] Ai Austin: I did once try to get into Git and its silly versioj numbers and actually made one patch top OpenSim.. but iot took me 50 times the time it should gave done [11:03] tommy Arkright is offline. [11:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool, everyone is rezzing [11:03] Ai Austin: I like the old r/22948 numbering which goes up rather than random characters [11:03] Nebadon Izumi: we do still use that numbering [11:03] Richardus Raymaker: getting a special git number i need to figure out to.. mots enough with last version :O [11:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the git hashes are more than version numbers... [11:03] Ai Austin: but not comparable one to another [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Does the core groups code in git master support attachments to group notices? [11:04] Teravus Ousley: I don't disagree with the fact that Git Patch support is challenging to say th eleast [11:04] Richardus Raymaker: getting the number not problem. the command git still puzzles me. not use it enough [11:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they are a security feature that protects the integrity of the commit [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: wah, challenging? [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: svn is far from perfect either [11:04] MP4 Player v1.0 (archive.org): You are not the owner of this screen!! [11:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: also, every thing I work on here I use a short hash with the commit timestamp [11:04] Teravus Ousley: All this rebasing and am-ing and god forbid you have conflicts [11:04] Ai Austin: ah well... at least te current Viewgit addeds the old style r/22948 number on thank goodness [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: with svn the code got into breaking states a lot more [11:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: can pipe the timestamp through `date` and get an actual date [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Ai, it does take some getting used to git. Took me a while after I was forced to start using it. It is very different from anything I'd used before. [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: it is pretty easy to get your git repo misaligned with core [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: and then it just stops working [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: not so easy to recover [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, Been there, done that many times in the beginning. [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya, i know :) [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: wait until you discover a bug and you use git bisec to locate the breaking commit [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I've started to learn how to fix some of those situations now. [11:06] Ai Austin: I saw that Justin fixed some prim/linked prim issues in last few commits.. but with r/22948 I edited a table today and one linked (rooT) prim and the whole set of items moved! At lweast they did nmot go off 250m! [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: I find git fine, though admittedly I never bother to rebase [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the best part about a bisect BlueWall [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: austin: that was only a limited fix for editing the root prim of an attachment [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I only rebase private work [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: is spending an hour doing it [11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I wrote my own "git survivors guide" that helps me with git. [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: and the devs dont beleive you and ask you to do it again [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: with same results [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haa [11:07] Ai Austin: with some attachment editing where item is rezzed t ground I did find I could get items of clothing where some bits were 250m away! [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: git is also the only VCS where I've lost work. [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not me [11:07] Richardus Raymaker: hi andrew. i have a note to./ but need to expand rewrite it [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: austin: although I wasn't aware of any linkset editing issues with non-attachments [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohhh, I know what you're talking about LOL [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I'm quite behind with things atm [11:07] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: @justin [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: Sending Unknown UserUMMTGUN3 for e956a9ad-0591-4df3-b760-63adfd0845fa at login with a cleared cache. Found the UUID stored as a description for a calling card of a HG user that is now defunct [11:07] Ai Austin: oh... I will watch fro that and properly report then [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, what revision number is that? [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: how do you know that user is defunct? [11:08] Richardus Raymaker: well, now you say behind justin.. when do you think a 0.7.6 final is seeing sunlight ? [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey doesnt' do revision numbers [11:08] tommy Arkright: JUSTIN...... Im running what 120 regions right now.. mega.... any way to look into getting the outter edges like AuroraSim (can fly for ever)? [11:08] Ai Austin: :-) techy man [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, there are version numbers that are in the repo as tags(?) [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: from my perspective, the current blocker is getting this unknown user issue fixed for hg users [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I ignore them :0 [11:08] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: the name is from a grid that no longer exists [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin: :) [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohhh, temporary links? [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: cd9b132 [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: interesting - that should still not show up as an unknown user really [11:09] Kayaker Magic: I submitted a Mantis 5937 some time ago, it was fixed in 0.7.5 (Thank You!) but it was never marked as fixed in the mantis page. [11:09] Richardus Raymaker: never used HG linking. not see muhc use in it to [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I'll check later. I don't have master checked out at the moment. [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: RiRa, do you do osTeleportAgent to other p[laces? [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: no i use the map [11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, it is still linking them [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: maby some gate use it [11:10] Ai Austin: Openvue has masses of osTeleportAgent objects to let us move between grids. [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: thanks - I will close it later [11:10] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: @Justin, I had 5 such messages, all appeared as UserUMMTGUN3 in Calling Cards [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, is there going to be a load test after todays meeting? [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: what do you mean by "in calling cards"? [11:10] Richardus Raymaker: i would preffer some other way to open HG region. i think there more ways [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: as the actual name instead of the user's name? [11:11] Ai Austin: hope:// is the thing to properly get behind in my view [11:11] Ai Austin: * hop:// [11:11] Ai Austin: though hope mught be more appropriate :-) [11:11] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: There is a folder under My Inventory, a card is created when establishing a friend [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Inventory has a folder for Calling Cards [11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hope:// might be a good one LOL [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: You can also have a calling card without a person being listed as a friend. [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: hope ? not hop ? [11:12] Ai Austin: its ALMOST working now in Firestorm.. except for going BACK to a previous locaton which is on SAME grid [11:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: "mapto" address works too [11:12] Ai Austin: that gives erors I hope Cinders Biscuit in the Firestorm team can fix [11:12] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: @Justin. note the messages only occur the first login after the viewer cache has been clleared [11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have appreciated the attention that Firestorm has given to some of the OpenSim issues [11:12] Richardus Raymaker: well i can at least now use a V3 for everything. now i have a workable workaround for some problem [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: yes, once the viewer has the binding it caches it and doesnt' request it again [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: which is really quite an issue - because this thing only has to occur once and you see the wrong name until you clear the cache again [11:13] tommy Arkright: GRID-GOD JUSTIN :-): Is there any hope in getting our Mega-Regions able to have open boarders when flying ? Like AuroraSim. As the future of flight in here has taken off, and a bunch of us are making some big leeway in development of Aircraft :-) [11:13] Ai Austin: I should say that we have a greatiopportunity now we have a sdplit development path for an OPENSIM compiled variant of viewers like OpenSim to really step up teh pace and move ahead without havign to worry at SL compliance [11:13] Richardus Raymaker: i hope the FS teamimprove the opensim viewer. especially make it more seperate form FS SL on the pc [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: tommy: what are open borders? [11:13] Ai Austin: Richardus.. the opportunity is there [11:13] tommy Arkright: AHHH, you can fly and its like you have a million miles never crash into sim end, its just goes on. [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: today, I'm not personally seeing anybody as unknown user but that could just be luck [11:14] Ai Austin: There is also one Firestomr JIRA issie to collect together all Opensim issues [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: Tommy, you mean a simborder crosisng to other mega ? [11:14] Ai Austin: here is URL for the record [11:14] Richardus Raymaker: already happy if a mega would ake less child connections [11:14] Ai Austin: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-581 [11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654 no unknowns seen either [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: I think I might have kept 5937 because of an anomoly with the prim limit [11:14] tommy Arkright: NO sir, Um AuroaSim allows .. stand-by let me get the terms and or an example better.\ [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: kayaker: my last note says it was 57m for some reason instead of 54 [11:15] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: create a 100 region mega [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: hi arielle. well that would be nice to have. [11:16] tommy Arkright: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2xFheF6uv8, called infinate regions, and Im running what 12o mega right now... its fun [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I think he means larger than 256m regions [11:16] Kayaker Magic: LOL, it was 10m before the fix, I'm happily building things that use the 5937 fix, if the limit is too big I don't notice! [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: and that will not happy anytime soon I suspect [11:16] Richardus Raymaker: uhmm. someone told me somet lsl command about water height and terrain height dont work right onmega. but thats on older opensim [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: I think tommy is talking about a megaregion that effectively never ends - you could keep goingin anyt directly [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: direction [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: but I've no idea how that would work with underlying terrain [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: opensim isn't built the same way as something like minecraft [11:17] tommy Arkright: just water [11:17] tommy Arkright: look at you tube its so neat [11:17] tommy Arkright: you fly out of your sim boarder the island behind you gets smaller, underneath is just ocean [11:17] tommy Arkright: you can land in the water outside of your boarders but its fun [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: hehe sounds nice justin. but then if im saying it right DSG can be the option to ? [11:18] vegaslon plutonian: you could technically do that with a old version of bulletsim but the veiwer did not like now having terrain under you [11:18] tommy Arkright: No terrain [11:18] tommy Arkright: just H2O [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... I could imagine a grid where you cross over the eastern boundary and find yourself entering the western most region. :) [11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: no, dsg is about load balancing a known area [11:18] Richardus Raymaker: but i think its pretty hard to make endless regions in virtual world right now [11:18] Ai Austin: I notioved when I set 1024 viewing distance in Firestorm 4.4.0 I only could see 512m in OpenSim... the islands beyond did not rezz. [11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Ai,I think we have a setting to allow that [11:18] tommy Arkright: I just see the future of flight, so many have been excited and helping me.... and you guys are kicking butt [11:18] Ai Austin: Anyone else managed to actually see across 4 regions? [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: it's interesting but I'm not sure how useful it is with no terrain [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it has to do with Child Agents [11:19] tommy Arkright: Hmmmm, selfish for flying I guess :-) [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: unfortunately I think this requires an opensim-side setting atm [11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: you must have a child in every sim you are looking at [11:19] tommy Arkright: I was playign with Aurora sim and it was so much fun. [11:19] Ai Austin: I got my old SL physical vehicle scrip going in Bulletsim fine on a test... so I have set Openvue grid to BulletSim now [11:20] Kayaker Magic: Tommy: It would be fun to sail a boat off to infinity in the Void Sea also. [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: DefaultDrawDistance in [Startup] [11:20] Richardus Raymaker: it would be nice to have bigger region. instead of mega's if that lower's child connections. but its not easy todo [11:20] Ai Austin: In ODE it just did not work at all [11:20] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:20] tommy Arkright: Ai get over bu us... I ll give you a demo [11:20] tommy Arkright: In Bullet [11:20] Ai Austin: okay tommy thanks [11:20] tommy Arkright: Bullet Rocks [11:20] tommy Arkright: Makes me feel speacial inside [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: some people still appear to prefer ode [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't done much with physics in os grid since switching to Bullet to know how it compares. [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: yeah, bullet is good. im waiting a bit on the 0.7.6 final before i can move with some things [11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I am still on ODE, but I juat haven't taken time to change over yet [11:21] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I will migrate soon [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: well, people say bullet is bad for cpu load.. not seen it [11:21] Richardus Raymaker: i have one 0.7.6 sandbox [11:21] tommy Arkright: I have no issues\ [11:21] Arielle Popstar: is rubber banding for passengers fixed yet? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: I have not heard anyone say BulletSim was bad for cpu [11:21] tommy Arkright: you are welcome to join us use region when ever trying to have fun and team up with as many as possible [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: no [11:21] Ai Austin: I will test with passengers now you have said that Arielle [11:21] Arielle Popstar: nods [11:21] tommy Arkright: Ask Neb he took a flight [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I have one fireworks object that doesn't act the same as in SL when it comes to firing off the projectile. [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: technically BulletSim should be far superior to ODE in terms of threading [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and how it handles cpu [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it is more efficient than ode [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: let me say it different. some say on lower cpu's its give some impact. but i not seen any problem. [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: dont worry nebadon. i love bullet already [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: its certainly possible, I have not seen anyone officially mention that on IRC or Mantis though [11:22] Richardus Raymaker: maby i can finaly make a good train [11:22] tommy Arkright: I love Bullett you guys are doing the right thing [11:23] tommy Arkright: Richardus, come make a rail road in my grid [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Cuteulala had 120 car train running [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: No. i make one on my own grid [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: flawlessly [11:23] tommy Arkright: Nice [11:23] Ai Austin: My multi-mode vehicle behaves exactly as it did in SL in BulletSim. In ODE its was chaos [11:23] tommy Arkright: wasnt met to be rude :-) [11:23] Richardus Raymaker: first need to figure out how. seems hard thing to share [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: but need 0.7.6 final first [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if you do run accross anything wierd or run across someone else having bulletsim issues please be sure either to yourself file a mantis and let us know [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: or have that person file a mantis [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: even if it seems minor [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if we dont know we cant help [11:24] Ai Austin: Talking of which I love the rollercoasters on OSGrid Recreation Plaza... but I assume the are not physical [11:24] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Can latest bullet not be applied to 0.7.5 Post Fix? [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen some good elevators in SL lately. I'd like to see what I can do in OS with Bullet for an elevator. [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: that might be tough Fred [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: funiily enough bullet was veyr recently updated on 0.7.5-post-fixes [11:24] Richardus Raymaker: no fred that sounds bad idea [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: its not as simple as dropping in new dll [11:24] Ai Austin: Justin... do you think we are nearing the time an 0.7.6 release can be done? [11:24] tx Oh: well, i should test my physics installations if they work with bullet. they use sensors... [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: Andrew, i tried elvator.but moveing prims still get phantom [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: I hope soon - really want to see this unknown user issue fixed before branching [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Fred, I'm using Bullet with 0.7.5PF [11:25] Richardus Raymaker: or i do it wrong. and i used physics moveing [11:25] Arielle Popstar: yes, thought robert applied it to .7.5 post already [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: there were some recent changes I recall that prevent you from just dropping the newest dll into 0.7.5 [11:25] Ai Austin: good point [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: it may be fixed with these hg changes but need to see [11:25] Ai Austin: I am behind on the Diva Wifi as thats still 0.7.5 and is now off for some items in 0.7.6 dev [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I don't think you could dro pin a new dll, but you saw those recent changes radams merged into 0.7.5-post-fixes? [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: no i did not take notice of that [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: that happened [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: cool [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: last mid week [11:26] Ai Austin: Now we have groups, offline im and profile sin core... to me it still needs a simple core web/registration interface. [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I know we spoke about it a few weeks ago [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: and he had mentioned it wasnt a simple update [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: guess he found the time [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: that's the kind of thing that isn't regarded as in-scope for opensim itself [11:26] Ai Austin: Any reaosn you could nt invite Diva to contribute wifi (suitable renamed) fro that... it would still allow options as usual [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, there are 13 patches that allows Bullet to be used in 075PF [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: oh about HG. its correct that people cant IM somneone from other grid to the HG grid ? someone told me something like that [11:27] Ai Austin: need to make life simple for those who don't need to choose [11:27] tx Oh: i don't see any unknown user today [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I would not hold your breath on wifi in core [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: or any web interface in core [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: tx: did you clear cache? [11:27] tx Oh: no, i didn't [11:27] Dahlia Trimble waves [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia [11:27] Arielle Popstar waves back [11:27] Ai Austin: is theer a way to have opensim force a cache clear? Or suggest it in a viewer wheer its needed? [11:27] Richardus Raymaker: why would you put bullet in 0.7.5pf instead of upgradeing to 0.7.6 ??? [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: core should remain devoid of external interfaces I think, it makes dropping in other modules more difficult [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, because there is no 076 yet. Not officially. [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: hi dahlia [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: "external" interface? [11:28] Teravus Ousley: hallo [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: plus bloats up the code base considerably [11:28] tommy Arkright: Were the Vehicle flags ever activated for LSL/Bullet Sim? [11:28] Ai Austin: I did not mean an external interface.. I mean an INTERNAL facility - same as now for profiles, offline im and groups [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya like a web registration form dahlia [11:28] Richardus Raymaker: well. 2 months maby then there is ? [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: like divas Wifi [11:28] Ai Austin: tommy. I use loads of vehicle flags and they all word [11:28] Dahlia Trimble: oh [11:28] Ai Austin: in Bull;etSim [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, maybe. I'm not holding anyone to any schedule. [11:29] tommy Arkright: OK..sometimes Im slow :-) [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: its so easy to just drop in the wifi dll [11:29] vegaslon plutonian: only thing that does not work right no in bulletsim in the angular deflection [11:29] Nebadon Izumi: it literally takes just a few minutes to setup wifi [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: andrew: I'm aware of your other 2 patches btw - just overlaoded at the moment with other things [11:29] tommy Arkright: Ai you need to come play!! Neb had fun... [11:29] Richardus Raymaker: i tried a basic verhicle scipt from sl. (old one) needed one change with some permission but it works perfect with bullet [11:29] tx Oh: i recognized a lot of bug fixes in the last days, thats really cool. [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, np. They aren't that important. [11:29] Ai Austin: but some parts don't work as they need a few extebsions in Diva;'s MYSQL data dll replacement which is a pain [11:29] Ai Austin: so group link up to Wifi doe snot work at the moment [11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: well, the thing with web interfaces is that there are a million ways to do it, and it means adding another language and completely different type of code into core [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:30] Ai Austin: understood... just saying thoigh... its the obvious missing bit to deploy a simple grid [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: unless you did it in asp.net or something [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: ai: so why not things like the diva distro? [11:30] Richardus Raymaker: im avoiding web interfaces as much as possible work only with HG. more safe :O [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: honestly the mysql thing is pretty simple [11:30] tx Oh: i actually have to program soap-wsdl shite [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: its 1 line in 1 ini file [11:30] nurbsPlane9: DynamicTextureModule: Error preparing image using URL http://images.intellicast.com/WxImages/Radar/usa.gif [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, btw. I updated ossearch and osprofile this week. Minor updates. Mainly docs for ossearch and added a README for osprofile witih some other minor code change. [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i would not describe that as complicated [11:31] Ai Austin: thhat makes too many commitments fro many folks, and those wantig to use later dev master versions [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: mysql-community + the inscluded workbench is enough [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: if you consider that complicated i would forget about running a grid [11:31] Richardus Raymaker: if you run windows [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I do occasionally thin kabout having a downstream distro with web interface, etc. but I can't cope with the work I have now :) [11:32] Ai Austin: I now use entirely core except for add on wifi module from Diva (not her distrib - just teh module) [11:32] Dahlia Trimble is web challenged and woudnt even attempt a web interface [11:32] Ai Austin: changed to V2 offline Im, groups and BlueWall's core profiles and they all work fine [11:33] tx Oh: web is old media. [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it would practically have to be in c# to avoid another language in core [11:33] tx Oh: :-) [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: so asp.net [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ew [11:33] Ai Austin: Before I had to have all those add ons [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: asp.net is so horrible [11:33] tx Oh: yepp, it sounds terrible [11:34] Teravus Ousley has done web things with OpenSim.. /sstats, for example. [11:34] tx Oh: there is already the xml-rpc interface which just needs some more love [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: and also better security I think [11:34] Richardus Raymaker: uhhm, for som reason soem lookat is enabled on my kokua screen. how do you disable it ? [11:34] Ai Austin: loads of things serve as URL like things - like maps and so on [11:34] Dahlia Trimble: the http server in opensim is overloaded already [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus its like that for me too [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: well, a web interface would ideally use a compbination of xml-rpc and the robust service interfaces [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: it would not change the db directly [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i keep meaning to ask NickyP keep forgetting [11:34] Arielle Popstar: look under Commands [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: just spin up another instance ;) [11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: json-rpc [11:35] tx Oh: well, client-side certificates would be secure :-) [11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I had a viewer crahs, then when I relogged, I see Unknown users [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: biw> [11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: before there was none [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: now? [11:36] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 11:35] Unknown UserUMMTGUN2: now? [11:36] Teravus Ousley thinks we should implement Tor on OpenSimulator... so the simulator can never truly know where the user is from.... [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:36] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I'll clear cash are relog [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: urghm talking about lag [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, unfortunately this sim is running code before I updated to GUN3 [11:36] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: hello everyone [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: think tor is good for lag [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya because logins arent laggy enough :) [11:36] stiofain nbmcmedia: hi folks [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: so can't tell if that was a cached binding or a new one [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: hi licu [11:36] Teravus Ousley: Hello [11:36] tx Oh: ouch, bluewall sees jcc as unknown?! [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:36] Richardus Raymaker: no i dont have lag now. but i think useing tor would do [11:37] Marcus Llewellyn sees BlueWall as Unknown UserUMMTGUN2 [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: we really do need to take a close look at logins, i noticed today when I logged in here [11:37] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         edb11a7: 2013-06-22 08:29:54 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: there was a bunch of spew again [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: in what way is HG2 compatible with old simulators ? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and i was frozen in place for a minute or two before i could move [11:37] Richardus Raymaker: if am right you can enable it in 0.7.6 ? [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: something about my avatar is nasty [11:37] Teravus Ousley has no UMMTGUNS.. Suspects that he'd have to get a License for them [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I must admit, I never suffer that logging in here [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya it only happens with my avatar [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and dans too [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: we have shit loads of friends [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: I am certain that plays a factor [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: btw, could you update plazas to latest code? Would really like to see evidence of GUN3s [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: sure [11:38] Arielle Popstar: i tried jumping from my minigrid and though my avatar didnt move i was seeing the local chat from here [11:39] tx Oh: do we have a occ test? [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: about 20 minutes we will all jump over to the CC grid [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: login is quite similar to teleport [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: but you don't have issues with teleport in? [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: nope [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: only at log in [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: and its amplified way worse if i log in 2 simultaneously [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: it can actually log people out [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: who have not fully logged in yet 100% [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: if i log in at same time [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but i dont crash [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i just kill the entire sim and everyone [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: very odd [11:40] tx Oh: oh, and i made photos of my region for the map, unfortunatly the clients don't have orthogonal cameras [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: dan sees it too [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I want to take a very close look at that code path [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but with most of my alts it never happens [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: only thing differnt about alts is no friends [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i do have another theory maybe [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I have yet to test [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it might be HG friends [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but i cant say for sure, my plan is to test that theory though [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: how would you tes tthis? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: remove HG friends and try again [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i only have a couple [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: another thing to try is to disable friends module altogether [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: it you set FriendsModule in [Modules] to some junk string [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: woah [11:42] tx Oh: i don't make friends in other grids. [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: wright plaza console is going bonkers [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: about assets [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: stopped [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: was spewing about fetching assets [11:42] Arielle Popstar: i changed my hair.... [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: slow requests [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: outoing requests are about 8/s, incoming 56/s [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: I havent seen a slow request for a while now [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya but it was odd [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: weeks [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: have you updated robust recently? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: no one was logging in [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: i guess for hg? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yes couple days ago [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its only a few revs from master [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey tries to remember how to get to that console [11:43] Marcus Llewellyn: I get slow requests for assets when starting a simulator with a clean flotsam cache. But once thart populates, they disappear. [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess it was arielles hair of death [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: cause no one was logging in [11:44] Arielle Popstar: ;) [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: it was strange to see all the sudden 100s of lines of slow requests [11:44] Richardus Raymaker: well, i lost most of the slow request now im back on windows. soemthing with linux what create it [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: out of the blue [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: sculpty hair is probably the worst thing ever [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:45] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon: Develop > Avatar > Show Look At. [11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: are the robust consoles on another server than the plaza? hippo? [11:45] Arielle Popstar: we need more mesh hair designers in opensim [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec [11:45] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, names seem good now after clearing cache and relogging [11:45] Ai Austin: I still prefer flexi prim hair [11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: Mesh hair? [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: see IM justin [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: I cant find any mesh hair that fits [11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I suppose it makes sense someone would try making mesh hair. [11:46] Arielle Popstar: i dont have any on this account [11:46] Ai Austin: Dahlia... people modify their SHAPE to fit their hair and clothes with ,esh !!!! [11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: ah of course, you're not using robust for assets [11:46] Ai Austin: *mesh [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: no we are not [11:47] Ai Austin: rather unusla approach eh :-) [11:47] Ai Austin: *unusual [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: uhh, you can size mesh hair. so dont see the problem [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you can now type "show stats httpserver" to see how many incoming http requests the process id dealing with [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: I dont want to modify my shape [11:47] Richardus Raymaker: but i know people need to change shape to fit clothing [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: where? [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: on Robusto? [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: and a measure of an average over the last 60 seconds [11:47] Marcus Llewellyn: Mesh hair alone can't do the floaty, flowing thing sculpty hair can. But it can bend with the body... head, neck, chest. less avatar body clipping. [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, on a robust console [11:47] Arielle Popstar: well only if the hair is non rigged? [11:47] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: http://boingboing.net/2008/06/11/girl-in-a-plastic-wi.html [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: ok but we have 12 consoles [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: 5 inventory consoles [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: its rigged [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: for instance, inv1 is processing about 0.61 per second [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: so do you need me to do it still? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: im confused [11:48] Richardus Raymaker: robust still dont have any remote admin i guess. and rest i ned to try to uderstand. would be nice to have a C# rest client example [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: no, I just want some idea of how loaded the grid services are [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: and simulators, etc. from incoming http requests [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm looking at the data myself [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: presence1, for instance, is dealing with about 5 requests per second atm [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok cool [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: you think thats over loaded? [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: no, considering a website can deal with many multiples per second [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it sounds low to me [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: of course, this isnt' a website, but it doesn't feel like a high number to me [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey nods [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: what it feels like to me is the simulator is sending too many requests too fast [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: grid1 is about 22 per sec [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: you can tell how many requests the sim is sending too [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: because if i watch multiple screens [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: only the region i am logging into complains [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: "show stats server.network" [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if it was robust [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: does the sim throttle outgoing requests? [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: just logging into 1 region would be killing everyone [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: not just the region your logging into [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: atm, wwright plaza is generating about 0.3 outgoing requests per second [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: only for inventory I think atm [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: so asset requests all happen at once? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: thats what it feels like to me [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I think so [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: no queueing? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but I cant say for sure [11:51] Dahlia Trimble: lol [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: if anything [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its nginx [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: thats messing up the simulator [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we do throttle [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but with nginx [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: not robust [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: I meant the sim [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: well, I believe any queueing code would be in OpenSim.Servers.Connectors.AssetServicesConnector [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I would not be surprised if we are not throtteling [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: and right now there isn't any at that level. It could be done for async requests though one would also need to take care of the sync requests in some way [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I'm pretty sure we aren't at that level [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt this is part of the login lag too [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: how about hg assets? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think there is just 1 silverbullet for logins [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I have noticed [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: if the region cache is cleared off all avatar content [11:54] Marcus Llewellyn: disabling logins works. >:) [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: those logins are way worse [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but after the avatar is cached [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: login is much better, but still pretty terrible [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know about hg [11:54] Richardus Raymaker: lol marcus, ctrl-alt-del to [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: thats why it seems so inconsistent too I suspect [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: it's a complex system [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: I can tell you though teleports are no where near as bad as log in [11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: would it be possible to use a child agent to "pre-cache" things [11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the teleport would take longer [11:55] Dahlia Trimble: and each outgoing request is a thread? [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, login and teleport share a big chunk of common code because they both involve getting an avatar into a simulator [11:55] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: but login will do various othing things lkike friend notification [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:56] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: also sneds all the response data [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats why i suspect friends is one of our "Enemies" so to speak [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: also gets a bunch of group info on login. [11:56] Dahlia Trimble shudders.... [11:56] Arielle Popstar: 3 minutes to test [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya andrew I have tested with groups disabled though [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and there is zero improvement [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i do not suspect groups [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think the group thing is establishing ownership fo the prims, etc. in the region - parcels and such [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: groups however could make things just slightly worse [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: because of the other things failing [11:57] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: @justin. Friend notification occurs when a HG avatar returns to it home region [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: its just another nail in a bed of nails [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it does send a lot of logging onfo to the console [11:57] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: lol, Neb [11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: I believe you are probably talking about a different thing - i.e. an actual viewer notification message about a friend? [11:57] tx Oh loves event driven queues vs. multithreading [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: how about multi-threaded event driven queues? ;) [11:58] Dahlia Trimble likes "green threads" [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: speaking of events... [11:58] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: justin: console displays these for each forieg grid the avatar has friends, [HG STATUS NOTIFIER]: Notifying 1 friends in [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ya we are at top of hour [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: anything else anyone wanted to get in today? [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I see that new groups code in core supports an event for group creation fee but is there an event for classified creation fee? [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: that would probably be a question for Diva, and i suspect she probably did not go that far [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:59] tx Oh: i would say bravo for the bug fixes [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: core groups is not considered complete by any means [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: http://www.jantoo.com/cartoons/lowres/164/16430621_low.jpg [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: One other groups question. Is attachments to group notices working in core groups? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: hmm I have not tested that [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: how compleet is core groups compared with php groups ? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect not [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i do not suspect core groups is anymore complete than flotsam [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: she basically just copied flotsam into C# [12:00] Richardus Raymaker: ok [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I wasn't sure if it made sense for me to work on attachments to group notices if they are working in core groups. [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: I would ask diva but assume they are not [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: k [12:01] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: may I ask about something different? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: sure Licu [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I have two more pending changes for osprofile. [12:01] tx Oh: can you tell the hg address for the occ locations again? [12:01] Richardus Raymaker: create core groups less lag, as last question. [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: yes 1 sec tx [12:01] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: in Craft we are enabling the suthorization service, it works fine apart a little problem [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 1 cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 2 cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 3 cc.opensimulator.org:8002:Keynote 4 [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: if 1 is full [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: try 2 etc.. [12:02] tx Oh: oh, i need to apply for the conference [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: Licu, what are you missing in osprofiles ? [12:02] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: when we change the rating of a sim, it appears ok in the viewer, but does not work since we restart the sim [12:02] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know the php version works compleet [12:02] Dahlia Trimble waves [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: Sim ratings are not implemented [12:02] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: they work for us [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: licu: sounds like a bug to report [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: many things work until sim is restarted [12:03] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: ok [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: its likely the packets are being received but none of the back end stuff is implemented [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: to store and share ratings etc.. [12:03] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: then it is something good for a mantis? [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: sure [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: What ratings are being changed where, Licu? [12:03] Richardus Raymaker: core osprofiles or ? [12:03] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: sims [12:04] Licu.Rau @craft-world.org:8002: pg, mature, adult [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: oh, that might be working actually [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: you know what though [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: aah. i think that worked fine in 0.7.5 [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: you need to be sim owner I think [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: to change it [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: though i have had wierdness to with that [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: there was times I could not change it either [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: That isn't part of profile AFAIK. [12:04] Richardus Raymaker: yes [12:04] Ai Austin: are we on for the load test? [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: okay, I'm going to go to the oscc [12:05] Ai Austin: its 5 past the hour [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ok ya lets jump over