Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12

[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Online [11:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hello :) [11:02]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit.. [11:02]  Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002 is Online [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: freakin Electric company decided to swap my power meter 10 minutes ago [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: no warning [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: just poof whole house shuts off [11:02]  Nebadon Izumi: grr [11:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello [11:03]  Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:03]  Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:03]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nice. company's you have there. ok, weird system to place the meters outside :) here the cannot get to it if i keep the door locked [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what would happen if because that youir computer get damaged because you where just doing bios flash nebadon ? [11:04] Nebadon Izumi: id pretty much be screwed heh [11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah....that's what insurance is for, if you can get the right clauses [11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: soory for the language. pile off as..ho..ses of the company [11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or a UPS system like I have since the power here is a bit unreliable [11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya my laptop survived :) [11:05]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then I get a 20-minute window to shut things down properly [11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, UPS in usa is really usefull [11:05]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 20min ? must be a 1400va ups [11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i have had a chance to check rack servers in basement [11:05]  Nebadon Izumi: im sure they are fine though [11:06]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello everyone [11:06]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew [11:06]  Justin Clark-Casey: hello andrew [11:07]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin [11:07]  Nebadon Izumi: so [11:07]  Andrew Hellershanks: I'm up and running again. In the last couple weeks I did a major upgrade of the components for my main computer, thanks in part to nebadon helping me narrow down my options. [11:07]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 waves silently [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: Jenkins has been acting a bit wierd lately [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: BlueWall said he will take a closer look at it soon [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: mostly its just slow as dirt [11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Claps, you found finaly a solution andrew [11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @RiRa....no idea....when I bought the system I told the guy "I need a UPS that will give me enough time to shut down" and that's what he gave me.....for all I know it could be a couple of hamsters inside the box [11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it works [11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine APC or ? [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yup. I went for the route of spending more $$ but I got a machine about 4 to 5 times faster than I had been running. [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: Justin not sure if you saw but diva did a major refactoring of initial inventory fetch [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, still the best choice [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its like 50-75% faster now [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: um.....rectangular and grey and not somewhere I can easily read a label on it [11:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: Also with a case with more space inside and with lots more memory,. [11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i can lucky delay mine, until i know what software need or it really dont work anymore [11:09] Cuteulala Artis is Online [11:09] Nebadon Izumi: turns out Inventory links were extremely inefficient [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't tried diva's inventory improvements but they really sound encouraging. [11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't have to insert hamster food so I assume there's something inside it like a battery [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i made 3000 links in my inventory for this avatar [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it took over 3 hours to get my inventory about 95% downloaded [11:10] Kayaker Magic: I have been folowing the Mantis notes on llCastRay, I vote for throwing out the old useless llCastRay and switching to the new one that actually works!!! [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with divas new code it takes about 1 minute and 30 seconds [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: 3 hours?? eek. [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: for 48,000 items [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, have you tried links to links in inventory? [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:10]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't been able to test it yet.....the issues with the first couple iterations made Seth too nervous to apply it directly to RG yet [11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: is the inventory working ok for you aine? i know u had big problems before [11:10] Nebadon Izumi: of that 48k, 3k are links [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I actually logged in here today [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: with cleared cache [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: normally that would have done quite a number on the simulator [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't test yet since I'm dependent on RG's Robust being updated [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: possibly even crashed it [11:11]  Dahlia Trimble: are links to links allowed? [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: not even a hiccup today [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure Dahlia [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: never tried [11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have it on my regions but until Robust is improved it's meaningless to test it [11:11]  Nebadon Izumi: i suspect it probably just links again to the original maybe [11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: no [11:12]  Nebadon Izumi: the viewer will not let me [11:12]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so that side of it is up to Seth [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its not even an option [11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and first version of it breaking all the links didn't inspire him with a lot of confidence so I think he wants to wait for a few more bugs to be shaken out of it before he updates the grid [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: well I can say that here on OSgrid the improvement was drastic [11:13] AlexRime SiLiSiLi is Online [11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: breaking links? [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: is there a config change to go with it? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: no config changes [11:13] Dahlia Trimble: robust also? [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes....the first one broke all inventory links and the subsequent fixed one has mismatching folder counts [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so.... [11:14]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: did anyone figure out what the folder count mismatch is? [11:14] Dahlia Trimble: so a robust configu change is needed? [11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and was it fixed? [11:14] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: how could it break links when its only reading and not writing? [11:15] mattie mcbride is Offline [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: There is still that wierdness with the new firestorm [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but that existed before the changes [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: so its unrelated [11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: that appears to be something LL possibly changed [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its not their AIS3 system [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i tested disabling that in the viewer and it still occurs [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it does stop [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: after about 4 minutes [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: not sure how to pin that one down [11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and your sure the viewer reaslly use the old system ? [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Tank_Master said we should file a Jira [11:16] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev        adf0f49: 2015-05-09 08:58:59 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I havent had a chance to do that yet [11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is the folder mismatchc perhaps related to the FS bridge? [11:16] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what that is [11:17]  Andrew Hellershanks is Offline [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I am probably not the best person to be dealing with Firestorm issues [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: since I never use it [11:17]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I gether something to do with RLV but I'm not an expert on that since I don't use RLV [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: unless somsone points out a specific bug im trying to confirm [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I run the risk of not being able to know some of the lingo there [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: heh [11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, last time Seth tested on the RG test set-up he said there's a folder count mismatch [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: stalling out any kind of support [11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and he reported it in the Mantis [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not sure, that is not something I experienced myself [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there was a new mantis [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: or in that long mantis [11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that was the old Mantis that I created to track the issue and which Diva said she wasn't going to read any more [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if its in that long mantis its going to be ignored [11:18] Andrew Hellershanks is Online [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: please do start a new one if it persists [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: any new bugs need new mantis [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: mixing them into old mantis even if that mantis is the cause [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is not proper procedure [11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't want to start any new ones or add any more notes to existing ones.....don't want to spam Mantis with reports [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: well if its a real bug [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: its not spam [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bah! Singularity still often crashes when I switch desktop workspaces. :P [11:19] Vimeo Player v1.0: You are not the owner of this screen!! [11:19] Vimeo Player v1.0: You are not the owner of this screen!! [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I think justin has that problem too [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you use that app that lets you use multiple screens or something? [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i forget the name [11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that sounds linux... think i know that too from the past. not sure [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I really should report the problem to Singularity. [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, its a feature of Linux and the gnome desktop. [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [11:20]  Nebadon Izumi: ya Justin uses some other app for multiple computers and screens [11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sofar i know suppported on all desktops in linux. so usefull [11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: synergy [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya synergy [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats the one, that causes you some viewer pain sometimes? [11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had a weird thing happening in the last week or two.....I've had a few occasions when I've been HGed somewhere and suddenly I get a script error notice telling me that I don't have permission to use OSSL functions....but the thing sending me the message is one o f my dance balls that someone else owns and has set up in their region [11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is it possible it's somehow pulling script creator instead of script owner? [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya that happened here last week or two right [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: and everyone who saw it was using firestorm [11:21] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: the people who werent didnt see if [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: it* [11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh, interesting [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:22]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Would it be worth reporting that I can't seem to see mesh attachments and avatars today? Whereas I could see them fine last week with an identical setup... [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: 2 or 3 people saw it [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: and all claimed they were on firestorm [11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...well since you're aware of it I'll assume you'll report it [11:22]  Nebadon Izumi: Allen and I were not and didnt see it [11:22]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: <<< using FS .6.7 [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I will not be reporting [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I cant report things i dont experience [11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: +4 [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Sheera.Khan that may just be cache problem [11:23] Nebadon Izumi: it can happen with mesh and hypergrid a lot [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: clearing cache generally fixes it [11:24]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: oh, ok - I'll do so [11:24]  Nebadon Izumi: first thing to try anyway [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if it constantly persists [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: then go about with a bug report [11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if its a transient thing that isnt repeatble often, its likely not so much a bug and possibly just because of circumstances [11:25] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I'll just retry... [11:25] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: BRB [11:25] Nebadon Izumi: kk [11:25]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the interesting thing with that is the data is all in the viewer cache [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when he relogs it will pull it from cache instantly [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the same happens with animations, sometimes [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but until the relog there's usually no way to trick it into showing [11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: though sometimes toggling into wireframe and back will do it [11:27]  Nebadon Izumi: I have found zooming far away and back sometimes does it too [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: not always though [11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, sometimes that will work [11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it depends if it's a LOD issue or not [11:28] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: no change .... [11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Sheera, try toggling into wireframe and back [11:29] Dahlia Trimble: clear cache and relog (tm) [11:29] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Dahlia, that I just did [11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or...if you have an ATI graphics card and the latest drivers that can cause issues too....the ATI drivers are bugged [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: or as I like to call it the "LL Solution to everything" [11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that only fails to display rigged mesh...regular mesh is fine [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the trick with clearing cache [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you have to wait for everytihng in the region to load [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: before you HG out [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: your inventory, and the surrounding region [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: that can really up the odds of things being right when you arrive [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: teleporting before stuff finishes is not good [11:31] Nebadon Izumi: pretty much insures you will experience something strange [11:31] Dahlia Trimble: teleporting before your attachments rez isnt too good either [11:31] Nebadon Izumi whispers: ya especially with HG [11:31]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I can (and will have to) live with this today ;-) [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: another thing to do Sheera [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: keep your outfit in your suitcase [11:31]  Nebadon Izumi: if you are a heavy HG traveler [11:32]  Nebadon Izumi: always keep your entire appearance folder in your suitcase [11:32]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: will do :-) [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: having it outside of suitcase cuts you off from access once you leave home grid [11:32] Cero Mach is Online [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: really anything you need [11:32] Nebadon Izumi: AO etc.. [11:32] paulie Flomar is Online [11:33] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: but it's not my attachments... I can't see you Neb i.e. only a medaillon you're wearing [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ah [11:33]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: And RiRa is looking funny too ;-) [11:33]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, the hovering medallion lol [11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: how about now? [11:33]  Nebadon Izumi: i reattached [11:33]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: much much better now [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: that might have been my fault [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: logging in here with clear cache during a meeting [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: not a great idea [11:34]  Nebadon Izumi: but i wanted to see how the region responded [11:34]  Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, so nothing really serious about the new version - phew :-) [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I just saw a bunch of red on console from you Alicia [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: where you trying to access inventory? [11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nope? [11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: what was it saying? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: 18:36:22 - [INVENTORY]: Failed to process queued inventory request 013e589a-cf28-484e-afa2-afc9d48635f8 for Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk in Wright Plaza. Exception System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.BadFolder (OpenSim.Framework.Capabilities.LLSDFetchInventoryDescendents freq, OpenSim.Framework.InventoryCollection contents, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 bad_folders) [0x00019] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:636 at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.Fetch (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 fetchFolders, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 bad_folders) [0x000e9] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:612 at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.FetchInventoryDescendentsRequest (System.String requ [11:36] Nebadon Izumi:  System.String param, IOSHttpRequest httpRequest, IOSHttpResponse httpResponse) [0x0016b] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:120 at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.WebFetchInvDescModule+PollServiceInventoryEventArgs.Process (OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.aPollRequest requestinfo) [0x00081] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/Caps/WebFetchInvDescModule.cs:364 at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.WebFetchInvDescModule.WaitProcessQueuedInventoryRequest [0x00026] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/Caps/WebFetchInvDescModule.cs:448 [11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, that error i have seen before [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: maybe trying to access something outside of your suitcase [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: dunno [11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that is often a script inside something you're wearing [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I see a lot of them though [11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think it could be because i had a clear cache before i came, maybe didnt wait long enough before i tp'd here [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yep [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats it [11:37]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nope, i wasnt doing anything [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: diva is probably going to implement new block [11:38] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: same with me then ... [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that will not let you HG teleport if you inventory is still downloading [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully she can do that I think that would be good thing [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: prevent some console spew [11:39] Cuteulala Artis is Offline [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem to be effecting performance [11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as it's reporting accurately.... [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: just noisy mostly [11:39] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: makes sense, i hadnt noticed it before [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: before divas invnetory refactor [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: this problem could have cause major issues here [11:39] Cuteulala Artis is Online [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: cause it would eat up threads [11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what timezone is PDT ? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: California [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Pacific [11:40] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Pacific Daylight Saving Time [11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = grid time usually [11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but what timezone ? windows only show TC to set extra clock [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: good choice for grid time :) [11:41]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: central time -6 ? [11:41]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: PDT = GMT-9 [11:41]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the last virtual world i used had their clocks set to middle of the atlantic, half way between US and Europe [11:41]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: er...-8 sprry [11:41]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: i like that idea [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: make sure everyone is equally confused [11:42]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha i se pacific. thanks [11:42]  Nebadon Izumi: equal rights for all! [11:42]  Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: lol [11:42]  Dahlia Trimble: pffft. That's no fun :P [11:43]  Nebadon Izumi: Star Date 4609.4 [11:43]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: wouldn't the only meaningful one be relativity-corrected seconds since the big Bang? [11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhmm i dont know if your stardate is correct nebadon [11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: The current star date would be negative lol [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks thinks it is missing a digit [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: any other issues anyone wanted to discuss? [11:45] Cuteulala Artis: we need a region size 3d printer in 3d to 3d build our sims :P [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the sigsegv some people are getting could be linked to a crash i had this morning, i have the error msg this time tho [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it would be cool to be able to 3d print a region [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: but man after exploring 3D printing [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: that would be insanely difficult right now [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: why? [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well for shapeways for instance the models have to be fairly clean [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: You might need one of the liquid based 3d printers [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I notice that after a while if a region has experience latency issues there are a lot of hug threads that cause issues (thinks like 100+ wind change threads that never get updated, etc).,....maybe some sort of console command "clear threads" so it could be fixed during run-time instead of requiring a ful simulator restart [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: though maybe that's not possible' [11:47] Dahlia Trimble: "clean"? [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: drop [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: not to mention it would have to be lacking all textures and only be color [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: orbort [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: then have a clean way to translate all of that [11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: take your pick of semantics [11:48] Cuteulala Artis: Ohhhh! i ment a in world 3d printer for our sims lolol [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yes clean as is no non-manifold geometry [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything has to be solid [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no planes [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I recently ran across reference to an addon for 3D printers that appears to let any plastic spool fed 3D printer print using up to 4 colours. [11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for example [11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: show threadpool calls active LLClientView.SendWindData             : 43 ScenePresence.SendOutChildAgentUpdates : 31 ModifyLand                            : 8 HGAssetBroker.GotFromCache            : 4 J2KDecoderModule.BeginDecode          : 1 FriendsModule.StatusChange            : 1 ObjectDeselect                        : 1 ObjectSelect                          : 1 AvatarFactoryModule.SaveAppearance    : 1 ChatFromViewer                        : 1 TOTAL NAMED                           : 92 TOTAL QUEUED                          : 0 TOTAL RUNNING                         : 2 TOTAL ANONYMOUS                       : -90 TOTAL ALL                             : 2 [11:48] Dahlia Trimble: how about a voxel representation? that would be maniford [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: maybe [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: those numbers are not accurate [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but then how do you translate colors etc.. [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: after any period of time. ideally that has to be fixed at a very small cost to performance [11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: all of those are hung threads and will continue to sit there until a restart [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it could be done, but you would have to stick to pretty strict building guidelines [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: well ya color probably wont work [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: interiors are problematic [11:49] Cuteulala Artis: you cabn print all in one color and pain it professionaly [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: they are very likely not hung - very likely those numbers are false positives [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: unless maybe it can do a few primary colors [11:49] Cuteulala Artis: paint [11:49] Dahlia Trimble: and it can be halftone [11:50] Dahlia Trimble: halftoned [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya or just hand paint it afterwards [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: print decals [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:50] Dahlia Trimble has a halftining patent :) [11:50]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why not make your own build your sim kit. from small parts. make painting more easy, and printing [11:50]  Cuteulala Artis: we can use NVIDIAS instant printer hahah [11:51]  Cuteulala Artis: paint a giant section instantly [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: we should probably include some where in opensim setup notes about mono and threading [11:51]  Nebadon Izumi: and the need for setting > export MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU=2048 [11:51]  Cuteulala Artis: and fix this sesire avatar movement [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: because i beleive the default is 15 threads [11:52]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess what I find is when I see numbers like that being reported it's also almost guaranteed the the sim is struggling with other stuff [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: and i have found I cant even teleport to a region [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that is running the default threads [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: maybe an empty sim you can [11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then after a full simluator restart it's usually fine again [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but a sim even with minimal content its just terrible [11:52] Cuteulala Artis: Ohhhh! ya no rez haha tried to splash neb right in the face lololol [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: What are the thread limits under Windows? [11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: CPU catching fire [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think .net has much higher adaptive limit [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: im not even sure you can manipulate that in user space on windows [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: .net will just use whatever is available [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: mono is much more strict it seams [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: since its not so great at handling large amounts of threads [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we don't really have a proper place to put a note like that in the current code base [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we have BUILDING.md [11:55]  Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt seem appropriate though [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: I guess README.md [11:56]  Dahlia Trimble: maybe it can be detected and then spam the console [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats a good idea [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: since expecting people to read is a bad expectation [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just thinking we could specify a thread limit for mono that is somewhat in line with the limits (if any) under Windows [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I think there's a way to tell if it's running in mono, then just search the environment for that string [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: well [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the mono website recommends 2048 [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: for heavily threaded apps [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the default i believe is 15 [11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I use 512 which is just an arbitraty choice that seems to work [11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so for Opensim maybe 182392298 wouild be a good setting? [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: which is not enough for even a small opensim instance [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: 512 is probably enough [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ive never really experimented [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: just went with xamarins suggestion [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I can say though opensim runs very poorly on the defaults [11:58] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: ist osgrid [11:58] Cuteulala Artis: can i share a osgrid forum link here to a freebie i release? [11:59] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: hier ist OS? [11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: ja [11:59]  Dahlia Trimble: then there's all those MMOs out there that use 1 thread per cpu.... [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: sure Cute [11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: freebies [11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: da ist auch ein teleporter [11:59] Cuteulala Artis: V5.0 Of coasters released yesturday less memory and RETARDED fast cars now Ah HAHAHA... :O if u want to make a super hyper speed coaster :PP http://forums.osgrid.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5372 [12:00] Cuteulala Artis: better hope u can catch it once u start it [12:00]  Cuteulala Artis: can now go past gear 4 [12:00] Cuteulala Artis: up to 10 [12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh..I just remembered something I wanted to ask.... [12:01]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you set a sit target for an object (even just a tiny one) you can sit on it from anywheren in the region....if you don't, you can only sit on it from 10m away or less....is that intended? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: here is where mono suggests [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.mono-project.com/archived/articlethreadpool_deadlocks/ [12:01] Cuteulala Artis: how is my missles exploading if they never fired [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its actually 2000 they suggest [12:01] Dahlia Trimble: Aine, I think SL does that also [12:01] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: hier sind viele in der nähe [12:01] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: ich muss nach craft [12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was just curious if there was a *reason* for it that I couldn't think of [12:02]  Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: gibt hier auch hypergate [12:02] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: wo [12:02]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you set click action touch it's not enough...you have to actually set a non-ZERO_VECTOR target [12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: weiss nicht [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, interesting "bug"(?) [12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: muss aber hier sein [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I think in SL though it will walk you to the object [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: of your further away? [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure [12:03] ladyjo martin is Online [12:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: target has to be non zero vector in sl i think also [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya its been a while since ive say on anything no scripted in SL [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: say=sat* [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I tested it in my own region and can sit on it from even 5000m away if it has a target [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: yes [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: same in SL [12:03]  Dahlia Trimble: I dont think it's a bug [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that is not a bug [12:03] Cero Mach is Offline [12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah... [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its actually quite handy [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, if not a bug, a strange feature? [12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: was more wondering if maybe an object set to "sit" could have the same behaviour [12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or is that handled viewer-side? [12:04] Dahlia Trimble: maybe something to do with a sit exploit or whatnot [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I think non scripted sit uses a raycast [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: thats why ours doesnt work well [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: why you dont sit properly [12:04] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: Hallo Bernhard, hier findet gerade ein Treffen der Entwickler und einiger Benutzer der OpenSimulator-Software statt :-) [12:03] Sheera Khan: also kein Grund zur Beunruhigung [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: so there may be limitations to accuracy with raycast [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: if your to far [12:05]  Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: sorry [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: walls etc.. [12:05]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: the limit may be low to reduce the effects of barriers to the raycast [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: while not perfect im sure its much higher chance if the object is line of site [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: sight* [12:05]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I see...and when there's a sit target it just skips that? [12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: right [12:06]  Nebadon Izumi: when there is no target specified we have to calculate angle of approach etc.. [12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: could a code adjustment allow the sit-target type behaviour globally or is it the viewer that makes that decision? [12:07] Dahlia Trimble: dont know [12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...was mostly just curious about it [12:08]  Cuteulala Artis: just out of curiosity [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect those protocols are hard coded into the viewer [12:08] Cuteulala Artis: But Why? havent we started using the osgrid welcome station as the new lbsa [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: not something we could just over ride on the simulator side [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: not fully anyway [12:09] Cuteulala Artis: lbsa plaza is getting old and old to see lolol [12:09] Dahlia Trimble: I like the welcom station, it's nicely done :) [12:09]  Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen a mention of "raycast" in the last few days. Can someone explain what that is in term of OS? For me I think or raycasting as part of a technique to do 3D rendering of objects. [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: Cuteulala talk with Dan and Key [12:09]  Cuteulala Artis: its 1000 times better then lbsa [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: I will leave that decision to them [12:09]  Nebadon Izumi: however I am fine with updating it [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: as long as its not to drastic [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: I like that particular layout [12:10]  Nebadon Izumi: but i agree it could use some updating [12:10]  Cuteulala Artis: its more professional [12:10]  Cuteulala Artis: for noobs [12:10]  Dahlia Trimble: Andrew, there's been some recent patches to improve llCastRay [12:10]  Cuteulala Artis: then lbsa [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya Lbsa is more iconic than anything at this point [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: I am not against updating it though [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, That would be why I've seen recent references to it in OS. [12:11] Cuteulala Artis: send Me? the oar and ill put in halo with capture the flag mayhamm lolol [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia there is another patch [12:11] Cuteulala Artis: hehe [12:11] Cuteulala Artis: hehehe [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: have you seen it? [12:11] Dahlia Trimble: essentially a raycast is like drawing a line from one point to another in 3d space and noting whatever it intersects [12:11] Kayaker Magic: But there has been too much discussioin about keeping the old broken llCastRay! I say throw out the bad lLCastRay! [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: its supposed to be a lot faster [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: a v3 patch [12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's usred for targeting systems in weapons scripts [12:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why keep old noty compatible one in. throw it away. [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: however It was a bit above my head so I didnt want to just commit it [12:11]  Cuteulala Artis: we want fixed castray so i can program a giant spider vehicle [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: without others looking at it first [12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: think it has that name because it sort of does the same kind of thing as raycasting in rendering does [12:12] Kayaker Magic: Consider this: BulletSim doesn't work for bullets, so we have to use llCastRay and the current one is borked. [12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it tries to draw a straight line and figure out the first intersection point [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7546 [12:12] Kayaker Magic: So there is NOTHING that works right for weapons at the moment. [12:12] Cuteulala Artis: um [12:12]  Cuteulala Artis: my weapons work! [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: Kayaker have you tried v2? [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its not enabled by default I dont think [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: trying to remember what is needed now [12:13] Cuteulala Artis: i been making missle launching planes and nukes dropers with push and rocket launchers and bows [12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a new ini setting [12:13] Dahlia Trimble: good way to kill a sim is to do a bunch of raycasts in rapid succession (like firing weapons) [12:13] UUID Speaker: Alsya Destiny: a6d1d94a-38ca-48cd-a53f-c604e37dcce6 [12:13] mattie mcbride is Online [12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: see: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7546 [12:13] Cuteulala Artis: to bad no rez hahaha [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: [LL-Functions] [12:13] Kayaker Magic: I have a bunch of weapons that work, but they get llCastRay hits on bounding boxes, and hit on physics type none objects they should fly through. [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: UseLlCastRayV1 = false [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: in OpenSim.ini [12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that has Magnuz's notes on it [12:13]  Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: NWrites note: don't start a war with cutuelala :) [12:14]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure if anyone has documented it in the wiki [12:14]  Cuteulala Artis: ya i want to unleash a few rockets in here so bad hahaahh [12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: ya our llCastRay is still very incomplete [12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: even v2 [12:14]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have a snowball thrower that works well in tossing snowballs at distant targets. I don't think it used llCastRay [12:14]  Dahlia Trimble: what doesn't work about physical bullets in BulletSim? [12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: there is a v3 patch that I havent tested yet [12:15]  Kayaker Magic: physical bullets do not generate collisions properly [12:15]  Cuteulala Artis: idk my bullets are physical and they fire perfectly and blow up on collision with acasionaly they bounce of objects before they expload [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: i believe v2 is basically ported from Aurora and V3 is a completely new OpenSim implementation [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: v4 will hopefully be native bullem raycasting [12:15] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bulletsim doesnt always register in the script that the bullet has hit something, even tho it will bounce off [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: bullet* [12:16] Cuteulala Artis: ya i noticed a few times my rockets hit things and bounce off the walls [12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 dreams of the day that clothSim v1 is added [12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen that with my snowball thrower, Alicia [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats Dudsim v1.0 [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: :P [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: bad trigger switche simulator [12:16] ladyjo martin is Online [12:16] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev        adf0f49: 2015-05-09 08:58:59 -0700 (Unix/Mono) [12:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the physics is ok, just doesnt always trigger the lsl event, maybe its xengine thats at fault [12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup. lsl events can be disaster. [12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: same with sensors etc. [12:17]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so much depends on what other stuff XEngine is doing [12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think it's better now, but still not 100% sure [12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya event timing is not reliable enough for weapons probably [12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: event triggering in a timely, predictable way is non-existent [12:17] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: for spell casting we had to use round balls against round targets, then they dont bounce off and eventually the event gets fired (in most cases) [12:17] Cuteulala Artis: if i won the lotta [12:18] Cuteulala Artis: id invest a few mill on opensim [12:18] Justin Clark-Casey: they is why you aren't rich, Cute :) [12:18]  Kayaker Magic: I've had physical bullets skitter around on the terrain for minutes without generating any collisions with the terrain. [12:18]  Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol [12:18]  Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) [12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia...have a good week [12:18] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Dahlia [12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Dahlia [12:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: c y dahlia [12:18] Cuteulala Artis: noooooo [12:19] Cuteulala Artis: dont go [12:19]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:19] Cuteulala Artis: just cause u a dev dont run!!!! [12:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: actually, I should be on my way too