Chat log from the meeting on 2008-03-11

[10:26] Teravus Ousley: Morning, good. A bit sleepy myself.. lost an hour of sleep ! hah [10:27] Teravus Ousley: sorry, had to. [10:27] You: i couldnt get back on to Wright Plaza [10:27] You: took about 5 attempts to log in [10:27]  You: also [10:27] Charles Krinkeb: Do you have any idea if the load balancing stuff from 3di uses any new ports that some of us might not be aware of? [10:27] You: i can not log pcampbot in here ever [10:27] You: something is really wrong with Wright Plaza i think [10:27] Teravus Ousley: what is 'really wrong' anyway [10:27] Teravus Ousley: ? [10:27] Charles Krinkeb: Huh? [10:27] Teravus Ousley: how about just 'wrong' [10:28] Teravus Ousley: yeah, there was something funky earlier also. [10:28] Charles Krinkeb: Perhaps we could figure out some tests to understand the pcampbot issue? [10:28] You: its not jsut pcampbot [10:28] Teravus Ousley: not sure what it is .. or if it's wright plaza or if it's some external condition though. [10:28] You: Datwitch cant log in right now either [10:28] You: it took me 5 atempts just now [10:29] Charles Krinkeb: wow. I never see that. [10:29] Teravus Ousley: wb Neas [10:29] You: i have no problem getting pcampbot on any regions [10:29] Charles Krinkeb: Hello again, neas. Did the login go smoothly? [10:29] You: except Wright Plaza [10:29] You: the bots just crash instantly here [10:29] Neas Bade: yep [10:29] Hiro Protagonist: greets all [10:29] Teravus Ousley: Greetings [10:30] Neas Bade: Teravus, is there a higher res image of your diagram? [10:30] Neas Bade: it's sort of hard to read that one [10:30] Charles Krinkeb: So, next week: 1800UTC or 1900UTC. We did a daylight savings time that Europe did not and I am suggesting we keep with UTC [10:31] Hiro Protagonist: probably efficacious to stay with the euro phreinds [10:31] BigMike Bukowski: YES! I made it! [10:31] BigMike Bukowski: but.. my clothing is gone D: [10:31] Neas Bade: I'm getting a lot of loading.... on inventory [10:32] Charles Krinkeb: So, then we will probably have another meeting starting in 30 minutes. And next week, we will be at noon pacific time, but will stay with UTC at 1900UTC [10:32] Charles Krinkeb: Unless more then one core has an objection [10:32] Neas Bade: we'll see what the .eu folks say if they show up :) [10:32]  You: last few meetings no one has shown [10:32]  Charles Krinkeb: So chances are this will be a 2 hour meeting today. [10:33]  Neas Bade: Teravus, you running into the wall for a reason? [10:33]  Charles Krinkeb: Poof [10:33]  Hiro Protagonist: did we lose Ter? [10:33]  Neas Bade: is anyone else getting to their inventory? [10:33]  You: looks like it [10:33]  You: i got my inventory up [10:33]  Charles Krinkeb: 868VIRT, 772RES, 28%CPU, 77%MEM, r3802 [10:34]  You: 868 virt is terrible [10:34]  Hiro Protagonist: Charles, did anyone tell you we've been having really bad issues here since about 10:15 PST? [10:34]  Hiro Protagonist: right now, I am seeing about 10% of the prims is all [10:34]  Hiro Protagonist: earlier, we were crashing with 6 or 7 avs [10:34]  WikiLith:  No gURL present [10:35]  WikiLith:  No gURL present [10:35] Hiro Protagonist: logins being denied, the whole ticket [10:35] Charles Krinkeb: No. I didnt know. I also dont see that. I dont want to go against my friends, but I dont see that. [10:35] Hiro Protagonist: well, just giving you a heads-up [10:35] Hiro Protagonist: it's working remarkably well right now by comparison [10:36] Charles Krinkeb: I understand and appreciate it. I just need to see something borken before I can begin formulating a theory. [10:36] Hiro Protagonist: Ter and Adjohn could probably tell you better what was happening than I [10:36]  Teravus Ousley: http://opensimulator.org/images/1/1c/Proposed_IM_Flow.jpg [10:36] Charles Krinkeb: Is Adjohn == BigMike? [10:36] Neas Bade: Teravus, did you see my comments re: profiles as well? [10:36] Teravus Ousley: that's the same image. It just gets squished [10:36] Teravus Ousley: no, I missed that one sdague [10:37] Neas Bade: on opensim-dev mailing list [10:37] Teravus Ousley: 0.o, maybe.. maybe not [10:38] BigMike Bukowski: no, BigMike = bigmike [10:38] Teravus Ousley: not that I can seach in my google mailbox :P [10:38] Neas Bade: :) [10:38]  Neas Bade: it's there, at least I got a copy back of it [10:38]  Teravus Ousley: is it under the 'thoughts... ' header? [10:39]  Neas Bade: the in world media browser is kinda nice in 1.9.1 [10:39]  Charles Krinkeb: What are the issues facing us this week? [10:39]  Neas Bade: 1.19.1 [10:39]  Teravus Ousley: heh, I've sorta stayed away from that thread.. [10:39]  Teravus Ousley: :D [10:39]  Teravus Ousley: ahh, you know what.. I saw a message regarding IM flow [10:39]  Teravus Ousley: .. from you .. which now think is what you were referring to [10:39]  Neas Bade: :P [10:40]  Neas Bade: well, my point being that when defining IBuddyList (or whatever, we need a better name), we need to have interfaces for [10:40]  Neas Bade: add / remove friends [10:40]  Neas Bade: instant messaging [10:41]  Neas Bade: presense [10:41]  Neas Bade: profile [10:41]  Teravus Ousley: IAddressBook [10:41] Teravus Ousley: :P [10:41] Charles Krinkeb: Neas, Teravus: What can we as testers do to help bring more clarity to our reports? [10:41] Monk Zymurgy: hi [10:41]  Charles Krinkeb: morning, monk [10:41] Neas Bade: charles, good question, /me needs to ponder [10:41] Monk Zymurgy: ty..evening for me ;) [10:42]  Neas Bade: IContactList ? [10:42]  Teravus Ousley: nah, it's an address book [10:42]  Teravus Ousley: :D [10:42]  Neas Bade: address book is so overloaded though [10:42]  Teravus Ousley: very different IMHO then buddylist [10:42]  Neas Bade: having IM isn't a function of an addressbook [10:43]  Teravus Ousley: no, and neither is search.. but it's all got to interface with all of the 'plugins' we make. [10:43]  Neas Bade: ckrinke, any idea why inventory doesn't seem to be working? [10:43]  Charles Krinkeb: No, I dont know. [10:44]  Neas Bade: Teravus, fair enough :) [10:44] Neas Bade: I was just trying to come up with a neutral enough name so that people will know what it means [10:44] You: Neas [10:44] You: i bet money you have multiple folders [10:44] Charles Krinkeb: Er, does the fact that I just loaded a new shape and pants from inventory mean it is not working? [10:44] You: let me check your account [10:44] Neas Bade: having misleading names for things adds confusion [10:44] Neas Bade: neb, cool [10:45] Teravus Ousley: heh, I'm sure someone will want to make an 'active directory' plugin. [10:45] Charles Krinkeb: Neas. I have seen several times where multiple inventory folders are created by our software. To date, Nebadon has been hand deleting from the mysql database. [10:45] Charles Krinkeb: "Donkey Balls?" [10:45] You: nope [10:45] You: he only has one set of folders [10:45] You: lol yea [10:45] You: that was me [10:45]  You: lol [10:46] Charles Krinkeb: It makes a neat conference board for meeting. [10:46] Teravus Ousley: well ... chocolate covered hazelnuts are not bad. [10:46] You: lol [10:47] Teravus Ousley: just not so keen on the name there. [10:47] Hiro Protagonist: it's that 'pineapple' sense of humour ;p [10:47] Neas Bade: hmmmm... I wonder if it is a 1.19.1 thing? [10:48] You: oh neas yes [10:48] You: it is [10:48]  You: Inventory doesnt work on the RC client [10:48] Teravus Ousley: other people have said inventory doesn't work on the latest RC in OpenSim [10:48] You: im using 1.19.0 [10:48] Hiro Protagonist: same here [10:48] Monk Zymurgy: 1.19.0 windlight [10:48] Teravus Ousley: Second Life 1.18.3 (5) Sep 20 2007 11:41:23 (Second Life Release) [10:48] Teravus Ousley: :D [10:48] Hiro Protagonist: I seem to recall other issues with 1.19.1 too [10:49] You: yea Media URL doesnt work proper [10:49] Teravus Ousley: it's probably something really silly [10:49] Teravus Ousley: .. but Inventory isn't my 'area' [10:49] Teravus Ousley: I've got enough areas already :D [10:49] Hiro Protagonist: LoL [10:50] Charles Krinkeb: I have moved from 1.18.5.3 to 1.19.0.5 as the secondlife.com official download changed to 1.19.0.5 recently. Could this have anything to do with the fact that I am seeing less problems recently? [10:50] Hiro Protagonist: if so, it's an accident ;) [10:50]  You: lol [10:50]  You: most of the problems i have are only on Wright Plaza myself [10:50]  Hiro Protagonist: same here [10:51]  Charles Krinkeb: When we started this project. We agreed that we would always use secondlife.com official download as our standard of comparision. Are we changing that opinion now? [10:51]  Teravus Ousley: ack.. I really need to combine normals. [10:51]  Teravus Ousley: :D [10:51]  Monk Zymurgy: ah..maybe a good idea [10:51]  You: i dont see any difference between Windlight and Standard clients [10:51]  Charles Krinkeb: I dont see problems on Wright Plaza. Maybe it is the client difference. [10:51]  You: but i think all clients should be atleast tested [10:51]  You: well if it is its only here [10:51]  Hiro Protagonist: I'm running the same client as you ckrinke [10:52]  You: no other regions give me trouble [10:52] You: i can work for 24 hours straight on my region [10:52] You: never get disconnected [10:52] You: here [10:52] You: im lucky if i can get 15 minutes [10:52] Hiro Protagonist: I think the best client wrt clients is to document all deficiencies we find in any of them [10:52] Hiro Protagonist: *best strategy [10:53] Charles Krinkeb: Plaza Builder logged in as 1.19.0.80044 [10:53] You: yea thats windlight [10:53] You: but it doesnt matter what i use [10:53] You: i crash all the same [10:53] Hiro Protagonist: rather than trying to assert that we support any paticular one [10:54] You: only here though for the most part [10:54] Neas Bade: neb is your system in grid mode? [10:54] Hiro Protagonist: hey Paulie :D [10:54] You: yea [10:54] Charles Krinkeb: Hang on. We made this assertion last summer. If we are going to change it, it should be an informed decision. [10:54] Monk Zymurgy: hi [10:54]  paulie Femto: howdeh. :) [10:54] You: its here on OSgrid [10:54]  You: 7 regions [10:54]  Neas Bade: interesting [10:54]  Teravus Ousley: I'm calculating accelleration now.. do we want to put that in terse updates for accelleration interpolation? [10:54]  You: one thing i noticed [10:54]  You: is OpenSIM tends to run rather crappily on Linux [10:54]  You: and it runs rather well in Windows [10:55]  Monk Zymurgy: oh..bummer [10:55]  Hiro Protagonist: my regions are also on osgrid - I cant recall the last time I had client crash but for windlight [10:55]  You: thats just my findings though [10:55]  You: i cant speak for everyone [10:55]  paulie Femto: my regiosn seem to run fine on Gutsy. [10:55]  You: but i would definatly say OpenSIM has a ton of issues on Linux [10:55]  You: that dont seem to exist on Windows [10:55]  Monk Zymurgy: mine seems smooth on gutsy [10:55]  Hiro Protagonist: I seem to run opensim very well on linux [10:55] You: im not saying it doesnt run [10:55] You: im saying it doesnt run as well [10:56] Monk Zymurgy: i switched to mySQL..seems even more stable [10:56] You: yea MySQL is much more stable than SQlite [10:56] paulie Femto: yeah. Win server 2k* did a good job at ripping BSD code for their network stack. heh. [10:56] Charles Krinkeb: With that in mind, Nebadon, and I tend to agree with you. "How do we move forward to a newer recommended mono such as mono-1.2.6_6?" [10:56] You: well for me [10:56]  You: that is where i have the most problems [10:56] You: is 1.2.6_6 [10:56] You: i cant even get my regions to start most of the time [10:56] Neas Bade: interesting, 1.2.6 has been mostly good for me, except for the invoke_void issue [10:56] paulie Femto: ive never been able to get opensim to run well on mono 1.2.6 either. [10:57] Hiro Protagonist: I cannot personally endorse such a move - after recently rebuilding my installation here, I tried every mono rev from 1.2.6_6 back to 1.2.5.1 [10:57] Hiro Protagonist: 1.2.5.1 is the only one I could get to work [10:57] You: yea [10:57] paulie Femto: nice duds, Tera. [10:57] You: same here Hiro [10:57] You: 1.2.5.1 or 1.2.5.2 [10:57] Charles Krinkeb: Well, as long as we have 'N' clients and 'M' mono versions, I suspect we have to accept differing results. [10:57] You: other tha that [10:57] You: OpenSIM doesnt run for me [10:57]  Teravus Ousley: yeah, I get the _invoke:void issue. Otherwise it works for me. [10:57] Teravus Ousley: the invoke:void issue is a big one though. [10:58] Hiro Protagonist: I see much less of a compulsion to advance mono revs than client revs [10:58] paulie Femto: howdeh, jcc. [10:58] You: well in my case, i have just abandoned Linux [10:58] You: lol [10:58] Charles Krinkeb: Hi, Justin [10:58] You: im sticking with Windows [10:58] You: OpenSIM is much happier [10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: howdy folks [10:58] paulie Femto gets the lynching party ready for neb. [10:58]  Monk Zymurgy: fair enough..best to find something that works on your rig [10:58] Charles Krinkeb: Nah, lets all play nice together. [10:58] You: well im just tired of struggeling [10:58] Hiro Protagonist collects the torches and pitchforks [10:58] You: 90% of my day on linux [10:58] Monk Zymurgy: lol [10:58] paulie Femto: neb: jk. :) [10:58] You: is making sure its running [10:58]  You: lol [10:59]  You: checking every 15 minutes to restart it [10:59]  You: lol [10:59]  paulie Femto: if it works for you, it works. no worries. [10:59]  Hiro Protagonist: opensim@bodhgaya:~$ uptime 13:58:14 up 5 days, 20:39, 5 users, load average: 3.37, 3.00, 2.48 [10:59]  Charles Krinkeb: Justin. I have a question for you and Neas. "If Wright Plaza ran mysql for prims instead of the current sqlite, would that be better for your progress?" [10:59]  Primitive: Error compiling script: Line number 37, Error Number: CS1518, 'Expected `class', `delegate', `enum', `interface', or `struct''  [10:59]  Teravus Ousley: yeah, I don't have any issues with Ideal most of the time.. Windows though. [11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: Charles, I would say yes [11:00]  Charles Krinkeb: 9 avatars, 1000VIRT, 794RES, 29%CPU, 79%MEM [11:00]  Justin Clark-Casey: since mysql is much faster than sqlite, it will mean that other problems are not potentially masked by sqlite performance issues [11:00] Pristeen Barbosa: start [11:00] Monk Zymurgy: good to test it hard..alot of ppl will want to use mysqlite [11:01] You: pristen, vehicles dont work yet [11:01] Charles Krinkeb: Nebadon. Thats good enough for me. Do you want to move forward carefully on converting Wright Plaza to mysql and decide if you want to keep lbsa plaza at sqlite or not? [11:01] Pristeen Barbosa: hehehe, so i see [11:01] You: ok [11:01]  You: yea i think both should be switched [11:01] Teravus Ousley: mysqlite seems a bit hard to figure out which you're talking about. [11:01] You: but we can start with Wright Plaza [11:02] Charles Krinkeb: I leave the decision to you, but I believe we need to be testing both. [11:02] Charles Krinkeb: We can leave my regions at SQLite and convert both plazas if you wish. [11:02] You: ok sounds good [11:02] You: yea we can move slow with it [11:02]  You: not rush [11:02] Charles Krinkeb: Thank you. [11:02] You: see how Wright Plaza handles it [11:02]  You: my guess is it will run much better [11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: osgrid guys, the stability of WP appears to be worse at the moment. Any comments on this? [11:03] You: i agree [11:03] Charles Krinkeb: What are the issues this week that we can all work together on that get us further ahead? [11:03] Hiro Protagonist: you shoulda seen it at 12:15 PM CST [11:03] You: JustinCC to me things seem to be getting worse, or not better at all atleast [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: Neb [11:03] You: the other day i spent about 2 hours building stuff [11:03] You: only to relog [11:03] You: and it was all gone [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that's my impression too, though i've been out for a few days [11:04] Charles Krinkeb: Have we built too many things? Is it dynamic textures? How can we add clarity for the developers on Wright Plaza? [11:04] Teravus Ousley: that's a Linking issue nebadon that causes the backup routine to fail and not save any subsequent changes. [11:04] You: Paulie remember the Blimp and the Helipad [11:04] You: ?? [11:04] You: well after the sim restarted all that stuff was gone [11:04] paulie Femto: neb: yeah [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus: llinking issue? [11:04] You: i didnt link anything Ter [11:04] Charles Krinkeb: I want us to show off all we can here, but I also want Wright Plaza to provide useful data to the developers. [11:04] Teravus Ousley: Yes. The RootPart is null [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: Charlies, I think we just need to do some work on stability [11:05] You: maybe someone else did though [11:05] You: and it messed me up? [11:05] Teravus Ousley: I don't know how it happens truly yet. [11:05] paulie Femto: hmm. men, I know some db schema chamges have caused prims to appear to vanish lately. restarts of the affected region seem to bring the prims back. i experienced this on Cameo. [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: If we can't support Wright Plaza as it is right now, then that's not a good sign [11:05] Neas Bade: oh, yeh, the m_rootPart being null thing should be sorted out [11:05] Teravus Ousley: but when it does, people loose work. [11:05] paulie Femto: ck, could restarting WP bring neb's prims back? [11:05] Teravus Ousley: I was getting it yesterday on sqlite. [11:05] Charles Krinkeb: Next week, we will start at 1900UTC, not 1800UTC as we did today due to the daylight savings bit in the usa, any objections? [11:05] You: yea restarting the sim didnt help Paulie [11:05] You: these prims are really gone [11:05] Teravus Ousley: not on mysql though. [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles, heh no, at long as it's well sign posted [11:06] Teravus Ousley: weird that. [11:06] Monk Zymurgy: i had lots of prim loss..until mySQL..all very stable now [11:06] Charles Krinkeb: I'll work on it. [11:06] Neas Bade: Teravus, not all that weird if you look at linkset build / teardown [11:06] paulie Femto: neb: doe sthe fact that they were megaprims have an impact on the issue, you think? [11:06] You: i dont think so [11:06]  Neas Bade: there are a lot of race points in there [11:06] You: i think its like Ter said [11:06] Charles Krinkeb: This meeting is just like #opensim was a year ago. Very nostalgic. [11:06] You: something is getting botched and preventing datastore [11:06] Hiro Protagonist: How so Charles? [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, neas, any chance of mantis'ing that problem you told me about so we're all aware of it? [11:07] Charles Krinkeb: Just a few highly dedicated folks (and then there was Charles) [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: the one you told me about where linking and unlinking 5 prims rapidly appears to result in some kind of race.. (afair) [11:07] Hiro Protagonist: heh [11:07] Teravus Ousley: If the RootPart is null, you get a ' [Scene]: NullReferenceException in ... ' over and over again each time the prim storage routine runs. [11:08] Charles Krinkeb: I just lost all my credibility with the guy in the next office over the "Donkey Balls" [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: but as Neas said, the RootPart issue is fixed now? [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey might have lost the thread [11:08] paulie Femto: ck: those are real snacks on sal ein Hawaii. Ive seen em. [11:08] paulie Femto: tourists love em. [11:08] Teravus Ousley: hazelnuts covered in chocolate [11:09] paulie Femto: they are for sale in all the touristy junk shops in Hawaii. [11:09] Charles Krinkeb: 10 avatars, 1004VIRT, 693RES, 33%CPU, 70%MEM [11:09] You: lol charles [11:09] paulie Femto: tell th eguy thats a snapshot from your HAwaii vacation. make him jealous. hehe. [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: just for the record, sim stats claims 13 main agebts [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: *agents [11:09] Hiro Protagonist: are there stale logins or somesuch? [11:09] Charles Krinkeb: I was just counting heads on the stonework [11:10] Charles Krinkeb: could be me. [11:10] Hiro Protagonist: yup, my headcount is in agreement [11:10] Teravus Ousley: yep. 10 heads [11:10] Charles Krinkeb: Maybe one or two are in the corners or on adjacent regions. [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: appers to be seeing a lot of null reference exceptions on the console at the moment [11:10] Charles Krinkeb: Yep [11:10] Neas Bade: justin, those are probably the link / unlink race [11:10] You: yea i would say thats Normal Justin [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: not these many, surely? [11:11] Charles Krinkeb: Justin. I am so happy you look at the console from time to time. [11:11] Charles Krinkeb: This is a bit higher frequency then usual [11:11] Hiro Protagonist: I hardly ever see them on my regions unless they crash the sim [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: the SOG.get_AbsolutePosition oproblem? [11:11] Kevin Paisley: anyone here happen to be running latest SVN on ubuntu 7.10? [11:11] Teravus Ousley: if it repeats over and over again.. it's probably the prim storage failing. [11:11] Hiro Protagonist: maybe one or two per day [11:11] You: well her eis one thing i noticed the other day on my regions [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: it' [s a chain from Scene.Update [11:11] Neas Bade: justin, yep that's the link / unlink race [11:11] Monk Zymurgy: me [11:11]  Teravus Ousley: yeah, that's what I get when the prim storage fails [11:11] Monk Zymurgy: R3809 [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: ah, okay [11:11] Neas Bade: m_rootPart is null [11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: crap [11:11] Teravus Ousley: RootPart = null [11:12] You: http://www.osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20 [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: so was that fixed or is it still out there? [11:12] You: this script [11:12] Kevin Paisley: just wondering if it was an issue on my side...will work on getting it to work when i have time :) [11:12]  Neas Bade: no, that's still broken [11:12]  Teravus Ousley: I think it's still out there [11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: crap [11:12]  Kevin Paisley: using a 6 week old SVN version :P [11:12]  You: i had 5 of them running on my sim the other day, and my region was consuming like 450mb of ram [11:12]  You: i removed those scripts [11:12]  Justin Clark-Casey: I bet that's a bugger to fix as well [11:12]  You: and now the same region uses 67mb or ram [11:12]  You: so yesterday i removed the 9 scripts running here [11:12]  You: that seems to have helped here abit [11:12]  Neas Bade: justin, it's mostly about getting some more sane algorithms into InnerScene [11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: okay, I'm going to mantis it so I'm aware of it, and assign it to myself (though please don't let that stop anybody working on it) [11:13] Hiro Protagonist: Neb, there's still a bunch of timers firing here [11:13] You: yea [11:13] Neas Bade: part of the issue is the number of times we're doing double looping across all prims in the environment to find 1 by id [11:13]  Justin Clark-Casey: neas: yeah, that class is a mess [11:13] You: but the C# script is no longer running [11:13] You: and it seems to have helped a bit [11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: neas: yeah, that could really do with improvement, it's a rubbnish way of doing things [11:13] Teravus Ousley: well, also consider that we're looping through entities 10 times a second as well [11:14] Neas Bade: we should have an InnerScene ObjectTable or something, that lets you look up objects by UUID or local id [11:14]  Justin Clark-Casey: yes [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I still don't like the innerscene/scene split [11:14] Neas Bade: if you built the right data structure for that, huge amonuts of InnerScene code would go away [11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I know other people don't agree, but it makes my brain itch [11:15] Teravus Ousley: I'm not for or against inner scene myself. However, it's my understanding it was put there to slow down the growth of Scene which is a rather large class [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: btw, I know there aren't that many developers here, but what do people think about making some official time every Friday to do bug and patch triage? [11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus, oh yeah, I agree it needs the split (I don't like big classes) [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: I am getting confident enough to start working on warnings [11:16] Hiro Protagonist: I did a patch to AdamZ's work on terrain brushes yesterday that he didnt laugh at me over.... [11:17]  Justin Clark-Casey: hiro. Heh :) but he didn't apply it? [11:17] Hiro Protagonist: he said he will today [11:17]  Hiro Protagonist: he is up to his hmmhmmm in walligators [11:17]  You: did you guys check out the screens on the monitors inside? [11:17]  You: lol [11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: not yet, I will after this [11:18]  You: i had to shut off the stats screens for now [11:18]  Charles Krinkeb: Well, the good news is the plaza is still running after an hour and a half. [11:18]  You: but there are 2 others i setup [11:18]  You: yea [11:18]  Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: they are actually live updates? [11:18]  You: that is good [11:18]  You: no Justin [11:18]  You: that script has some problems [11:18]  You: i think theres e memory leak around either Timers [11:18]  You: or [11:18]  You: with osDynamicTextures [11:18]  You: http://www.osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20 [11:18]  You: this script [11:18]  You: seems to leak some memory [11:19] You: memory consumption just grows and grows over time [11:19] You: atleast it did on my regions [11:19] Justin Clark-Casey: are you sure it's not the current memory leak? [11:19] You: i had 5 of these scripts running [11:19] You: and i was up to 450mb of ram for that region [11:19] You: without the scripts [11:19] Teravus Ousley: .. that poor waitor. [11:19] You: 67mb of ram [11:19] You: and it never climbs [11:20] You: lol Ter [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, does sound like a problem in the timer area then [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: or something in scripting at least [11:20] You: yea [11:20] You: Timers seem to be a bit over zealous [11:20] Hiro Protagonist: I have a difficult time blaming the timers - I've 20+ timer based scripts on Nexus Prime, and no similar issues [11:20] You: yea [11:21] You: it might be a combo of also how its used [11:21] You: and how many avatars are present [11:21] You: just having them might not be the issue [11:21] You: getting a little bouncy in here [11:21] You: we dipping into Swap yet? [11:22] Teravus Ousley: yeah, ODE is also a bit floaty lately on the PID controller. [11:22] You: we are really close [11:22] Teravus Ousley: been that way for a about 1000 revisions though [11:22] You: actually we are using 365m of swap [11:22] Hiro Protagonist: heh [11:23] Teravus Ousley: the last bit takes a long time to settle. [11:23] You: maybe someone else can confirm this, but it seems to me also that a region on Windows uses less memory than a region on Linux [11:23] You: exact same contents [11:23] Teravus Ousley: yes, confirmed, Nebadon [11:23] You: i noticed on linux it can consume about twice as much ram [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess that must be mono [11:24] You: yea [11:24] Teravus Ousley: Linux seems to have a more liberal approach to memory allocation. [11:24] You: like an empty region on Windows uses about 47mb of ram [11:24] You: while on linux it uses about 100mb [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: interesting [11:24] paulie Femto: whew. finally back. [11:25] paulie Femto: lol [11:25] Teravus Ousley: need to re-do the sit target [11:25] paulie Femto: hehe [11:26] sculpty_chair_with_sit: started [11:26] sculpty_chair_with_sit: started [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: has anybody else had a problem using Linux with osgrid recently? [11:26] Hiro Protagonist: LoL [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: Dr Schofld told me that the 'ImageNotFound' packet was crashing his linux client today [11:27] Charles Krinkeb: I have not seen significant changes and all my servers are Linux [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: 1.18.5.3 and 1.19.0(5) [11:27] Monk Zymurgy: i use linux for both..no problems here [11:27] paulie Femto: no probs on nix fer me. [11:27] Monk Zymurgy: i get camera locks..occasionaly [11:27] sculpty_chair_with_sit: started [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm, okay, thanks [11:27] Charles Krinkeb: I use both the Windows and the Linux 1.19.0.5 clients [11:27] paulie Femto: :) [11:27]  Hiro Protagonist: Nice try Paulie LoL [11:27]  paulie Femto: yw [11:28]  Hiro Protagonist: no linux probs here either [11:28]  paulie Femto: wjat distro, jcc? [11:29]  Teravus Ousley: heh [11:29]  sculpty_chair_with_sit: started [11:29]  Justin Clark-Casey: ubuntu 7.10 paulie [11:29]  Teravus Ousley: other people sit on the same chair someone else is sitting on.. and watch what happens to the rotations :P [11:29]  paulie Femto: Gutsy. me too, jcc. [11:29]  Charles Krinkeb: Works Great. [11:30]  paulie Femto: got yer chair, ck! lol [11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: that is odd then [11:30]  Charles Krinkeb: I must have my head up my arse these days. [11:30]  paulie Femto: no lap sitting allowed! [11:30]  Justin Clark-Casey: charles, that was one of my first experiences on the linden grid [11:31]  Justin Clark-Casey: meeting a guy with his head permanently up his arse (literally) [11:31] paulie Femto: i poste dteh sitscript on osgrid forums, ck. [11:31] sculpty_chair_with_sit: started [11:31] Hiro Protagonist: ok guys, I gotta bail out now [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: see you Hiro [11:31] paulie Femto: cya, HP! [11:31] Hiro Protagonist: see ya sat or on IRC [11:31] Monk Zymurgy: cya hiro [11:32] Charles Krinkeb: One last time. 1900UTC next week? Here? Not 1800UTC?? [11:32] paulie Femto: k [11:32]  You: i recall the EU guys having time other than 1900 [11:32] You: maybe we should ask on IRC also [11:32] paulie Femto: i be floatin [11:33] Charles Krinkeb: So be it. Lets leave it open for a couple of days. [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: so, anything more to discuss, or shall we adjourn? [11:34] Monk Zymurgy: not me [11:34]  paulie Femto: anyone? [11:34] You: i cant think of anything else at the moment [11:35] paulie Femto: me threetheer [11:35] Monk Zymurgy: i would like to help with bug reports..is all of the information on the opensim.or wiki [11:35] You: yea [11:35] paulie Femto: oh [11:35]  Monk Zymurgy: coolio [11:35] You: bugs go to http://www.opensimulator.org/mantis [11:35] paulie Femto: wiki hellp is always appreciated [11:35] Monk Zymurgy: thank you [11:35] paulie Femto: its difficult to keep the wiki upto date [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: we have more bugs then we can shake a stick at [11:36]  Monk Zymurgy: :) [11:36]  You: yea you need a nice small forest to shake at our bugs [11:36]  Monk Zymurgy: its all going really good though [11:36]  paulie Femto: heh [11:36]  paulie Femto: we have some code in our bugs [11:36]  You: hehe [11:36]  Justin Clark-Casey: heh :) [11:37] You: it does seem though me removing those scripts [11:37] You: have made things slightly better today [11:37] paulie Femto: im the sitscripts? [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: scripts on wp? [11:37] You: we were actually able to all stay on for quite a while [11:37] You: well that C# script [11:37] You: http://www.osgrid.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20 [11:37] You: this one [11:37] You: i removed 9 instances of it last night [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: for some reason we don't appear to be getting the texture problem right at this moment [11:37] Justin Clark-Casey: though it certainly hasn't gone away [11:37] You: yea [11:37] You: well that script [11:37] You: is the osDynamicTexture [11:37] You: i wonder if its related [11:37] paulie Femto: cameo running 3815 with teh temp texture regression [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: hmm [11:38] You: maybe the cache pool is getting clobbered by that script [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: I doubt it, since this has been happening for some time now [11:38] You: well those scripts were running for several weeks [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: is your script relatively recent (I think osDynamicTexture is recent?) [11:38] You: and honestly sice i put them in [11:38]  You: this region has run like crap [11:38] You: its been a good 3+ weeks [11:38] You: since i put those in [11:39]  You: i dont find it coincidental [11:39] You: that last night i removed them [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmmmm [11:39] You: and today its running alot better [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: interestin [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: though I have seen some big texture numbers today too.... [11:39]  paulie Femto: google german? neat. [11:39] You: memory consumption is down slightly [11:39] You: its still far from perfect [11:39] You: but its definatly better [11:40] You: than it was while running those scripts [11:40] paulie Femto: why do i get google in german on this prim? [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: we shouldn't be anywhere near as high as we are right now though, imo [11:40] You: yea i agree [11:40] Monk Zymurgy: that is because it is tx oh's browser [11:40] Monk Zymurgy: he is german [11:40] Charles Krinkeb: 1181VIRT, 795RES, 27%CPU, 80%MEM [11:40] paulie Femto: heh [11:40] You: scripts seem to be the main source of memory consumption in my studies [11:40] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon, can we keep the osDynamicTexture scripts off wp for now to see if that is a contributing factor? [11:40] You: yea [11:40] You: i plan on that [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, i think scripts themselves each take up a good chunk even if they're almost empty [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon, excellent thanks [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: we really need to get to the bottom of this issue [11:41] You: yea [11:41] Charles Krinkeb: Anymore changes we can make that might help you add clarity, Justin? [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: Charles, I think we're okay for now, though it would be nice to be fairly light on scripts on this region [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm currently chasing down whether the texture queue issue is coming in from some other source other than the texture download module [11:42] paulie Femto: is any work being done on scriptserver atm? [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: since I've looked through that code quite a bit and I can't see where the issue could be occuring there [11:42] Charles Krinkeb: Got it. We will try to be lighter on scripts. I think we have about 60 running. [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks Charles [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: at least until we have this problem under control [11:43] Charles Krinkeb: We need to chat with Pablo as the SCriptWerks is the main source of scripts on this region. [11:43] paulie Femto: should WP have "maintenance days" like the LL grid used to have? where we shut down for a day to clean the webs? [11:43] You: yea [11:43] You: oh beleive me paulie [11:43] You: everyday is maintenance day here for me [11:43]  You: lol [11:43] Charles Krinkeb: Cannot we just turn off all the scripts for a few days and see what happens. [11:43] paulie Femto: lol. yeah. [11:43] Charles Krinkeb: With the estate manager window? [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: We did that a couple of weeks back, but still saw the problem actually [11:43] You: we could [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey remembers now [11:44] You: but i dont think that will help us much [11:44] You: i think we are better of examining all the scripts [11:44] You: personally [11:44] You: i think its that C# script [11:44] You: was the main cause of problems [11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: could try it again, though now I think it isn't primarily a script issue (though they will definitely add to memory usage and possibly leak (as Nebadon says)) [11:44] paulie Femto: is there a provision in the opensim.ini to disallow c# scripts for awhile? [11:44] You: actually yes' [11:44] You: i think we can [11:45] You: that might be a good idea [11:45] You: weather or not disabling it actually works [11:45] You: is another story [11:45] You: lol [11:45] paulie Femto: heh [11:45] You: i'll look into that though [11:45] Teravus Ousley: disabling scripts works from the estate menu [11:45] You: well [11:45] You: just C# [11:45]  You: can we only disable just C# ? [11:46] You: im looking now [11:46] Teravus Ousley: no. it's 'all' scripts [11:46] paulie Femto: we need more finegrained script cintrol? [11:46] Teravus Ousley: well, presumably each script is supposed to have a way to get it's running state. Currently it doesn't [11:46] Teravus Ousley: 'whether or not the script is running' [11:47] You: yes we can [11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah [11:47] You: ; Specify what compilers are allowed to be used ; Note vb only works on Windows for now (Mono lacks VB compile support) ; Valid languages are: lsl, cs, js and vb AllowedCompilers=lsl,cs,js,vb [11:47] You: its an option in the OpenSim.ini [11:47] Teravus Ousley: also, presumably some script events should be mapped to objectflags as well.. but that's not currently like that for some reason. [11:47] Teravus Ousley: the script engine is this walled off.. partition that nothing can get into or out of. [11:48] Teravus Ousley: I find that extremely frustrating, myself. [11:48] Teravus Ousley: however.. it is what it is. [11:48] paulie Femto: is scripotserver still being developed? [11:48] Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus ? You don't mean separation of scripts from each other? [11:48] paulie Femto: script server [11:49] Justin Clark-Casey is pretty ignorant, never having seriously looked at the scripting [11:49] Teravus Ousley: well, you can't get any info from the scripts themselves.. without sending an event to the event manager, .. the scripts listening for that event.. and the scripts calling a method in the object. [11:49] paulie Femto: sounds like an area that needs some luv. :) [11:50] Teravus Ousley: it's like going through california to get from Maine to Florida [11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: Teravus: heavyweight and/or difficult to work with? [11:50]  Justin Clark-Casey: :) [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: the communication mechanism, that is [11:50]  Teravus Ousley: it's just frustrating. [11:51] Teravus Ousley: that's all pretty much [11:51] Teravus Ousley: lack of information about script state stored in the script [11:51] Teravus Ousley: and lack of a way to get it. [11:52] You: strange too as people leave the memory never seems to recover here [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, we leak [11:52] You: its like a 1 way valve [11:52] paulie Femto: :) [11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: I think we aren't releasing the ClientView stuff properly [11:52]  Justin Clark-Casey: it's very difficult though, because loads of places in the code keep a reference to that object [11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: so very difficult to clean them all up [11:53]  Teravus Ousley: yep.. in the form of the interface. [11:53]  Teravus Ousley: <3 IClientAPI [11:53]  Justin Clark-Casey: bleh :) [11:55] paulie Femto: gotta run for now. good meetin, everyone. :) [11:55] Teravus Ousley: yep, me too in a few minutes [11:55]  paulie Femto waves [11:55]  You: yea im glad it actually worked out today [11:55]  You: thats a good sign [11:55]  Monk Zymurgy: cya paulie..i am gonna run too [11:55]  You: atleast we are sorta on to some issues [11:55]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, I think more by luck thoguh (ever the pessimist) [11:56]  paulie Femto: yep. stay frosty, marines! [11:56]  Monk Zymurgy: *waves* [11:56]  You: yea [11:56]  Justin Clark-Casey: bye [11:56]  Teravus Ousley: bye [11:56]  You: not actually fixed anything [11:56]  You: lol [11:56]  You: mostly its working because we erased stuff [11:57]  You: for now i disabled C# here also [11:57]  You: although it wont take affect until its restarted [11:57]  You: see if that stabilizes things in any way [11:57]  You: i left just LSL working for now [11:57]  Monk Zymurgy smiles [11:57]  Monk Zymurgy: thats odd [11:58] Monk Zymurgy: i should have appeared somewhere else :) [11:58]  You: different region? [11:58]  Monk Zymurgy: yup [11:58]  You: this is the fallback region [11:58]  You: if the region your accessing is unavailable [11:58]  Monk Zymurgy: i try again.. [11:58]  Monk Zymurgy: waves [11:58]  You: see ya [11:58]  Teravus Ousley: jumping seems to get consecutively higher also :D [11:59]  Teravus Ousley: . I mean.. over time [11:59]  Teravus Ousley: .. and revisions [11:59]  You: lol i keep typing for no reason [11:59]  You: strange [11:59]  Teravus Ousley: .. previously jumping wasn't that high. [11:59]  You: even if i dont hit keys [11:59]  You: i just start air typing [11:59]  Teravus Ousley: but hey, at least it's stable. [11:59]  You: yea [11:59]  You: its definatly way more stable today [11:59]  Charles Krinkeb: I gotsa pretend I am working for a while. Sorry to leave the party. [12:00] Teravus Ousley: You tap the jump button and the avatar jumps [12:00] You: which is good and bad [12:00] You: good cause its stable [12:00] Teravus Ousley: that means the collisions are stable. [12:00] You: bad cause scripts have some issues [12:00] Charles Krinkeb: I'll leave my avatar running and check the log later. [12:00] You: ok i was going to restart the region charles [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: right, sounds my signal to depart [12:00] Teravus Ousley: yep... [12:00]  Teravus Ousley: noon PST! [12:01] You: woohoo [12:01] You: lol [12:01] Teravus Ousley: Ö.o [12:01]  Justin Clark-Casey: actually, I wouldn't mind looking at the stuff you were talking about Nebadon [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: in the building here? [12:01] You: yea [12:01] You: the screens [12:01] You: i did some animated stuff [12:01] You: hehe [12:01] Teravus Ousley: might need a bucket [12:01] You: lol [12:01] Teravus Ousley: just a warning. [12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: hmmm :) [12:02]  You: lol [12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: screensaver tastic [12:03]  You: hehe yea [12:03]  You: i was bored [12:03]  You: the out of order screens had data from the grid server stats [12:03]  You: but thats the script thats killing the server [12:03]  You: so for now im leaving them out of order [12:03]  Justin Clark-Casey: bummer, I find that stuff really cool [12:03]  You: yea im sure it will get fixed up soon [12:04]  You: i might redo the script [12:04]  You: so they only update on click [12:04]  You: instead of timed and all day long updating every few minutes [12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: yeah. it's good to push the boundaries though [12:04]  You: yea [12:04]  Justin Clark-Casey: show us what we're doing all this stuff for [12:05]  You: i dont mind pushing it [12:05]  You: as long as its not killing the server all day long [12:05]  You: hehe [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah :) [12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: right, I'm going to log off now so I can deal with a few more things and then go home [12:05]  You: ok sounds good [12:05]  Justin Clark-Casey: see you later Neb [12:05]  You: see you [12:06]  Teravus Ousley: what are you doing back?