Chat log from the meeting on 2018-01-02

TLDR;: great attendance :-) some discussion about rezzing times and seating animations at the meeting place a bit of Mantis about sim crossings (#8273) Bandwidth-setting in the viewer script function to start animations the use of display names and the alternatives [10:58] Sheera Khan: Does this region take quite a long time to rezz for you too? [10:58] George Equus: YES!! [10:58] George Equus: The opposite to what one might expect... [10:58] Sheera Khan: I wonder why, there's not much on it.. [10:59] George Equus: I had to go to a sandbox first to rez at all [10:59] Sheera Khan: and the chairs have a lousy LoD [10:59] George Equus: A topic for tonight perhaps..... [10:59] Sheera Khan: let's see how many people arrive today... [11:00] Sheera Khan: this place isn't well known for our meetings yet [11:01] George Equus: My own regions does better... despite running on a 10 Y old laptop... [11:01] George Equus: There are HUGE signs on Wright directing ppl here.... [11:07] Kayaker Magic: My end-of-year resolution was to break something in OpenSim, Ubit did you see my two new Mantusii? [11:07] Ubit Umarov: guess i didn't [11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: These chairs take so long to rez [11:09] Kayaker Magic: Mantis #8273 : the CHANGED_TELEPORT message is sometimes sent when walking or driving across a region border. [11:09] Sheera Khan: I wonder why it takes so long to see the chairs and all that [11:10] Sheera Khan: it's not that much here on this region [11:10] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: is a problem in code [11:10] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: hahaha [11:10] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: 6 month i said this problem [11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I don't know, Sheera. They also have a bad LOD. If I back up my camera from the chairs they look different [11:11] Sheera Khan: i noticed that too Andrew [11:11] Kayaker Magic: Mantis #8276 : I found a way to test crossings until it fails and locks up the script that is testing it. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: yeap the 5seconds/1 second [11:12] Ubit Umarov: at that rate problems are expected [11:12] Kayaker Magic: How slow must I go to prevent problems? [11:13] Ubit Umarov: like all, depends on net weather, load etc [11:13] Ubit Umarov: number of friends on avatars.. etc etc [11:14] Ubit Umarov: err number of groups also [11:17] Ubit Umarov: (kay breaking our sits ) [11:18] Kayaker Magic: I was seeing if I could stop the animation if I was kicking my legs. Yes, but I ended up in a bad sitting position. [11:20] Ubit Umarov: are the blu sits female poses? [11:20] Kayaker Magic: Musical chairs? [11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: yea, looks like some strange goings on with the chairs today [11:21] George Equus: don't think so, mine is "manly"... [11:21] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.opensim.life:8002: im feeling very zen (if only my RL body could still sit like that) [11:21] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: sofa are very odd here [11:22] George Equus: as on Wright.. [11:22] Ubit Umarov: ohh you meant that chair yr on... yeap nastly LODs [11:22] George Equus: at least here it tolerate a running HUD [11:22] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: yep [11:22] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: about sofa opensim code have some problem for start animation some time [11:22] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: any ideas why ? [11:23] Kayaker Magic: there are some ancient problems starting animations, even SL has them. There are ways to work around it in a script. [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, if I could rez here I'd be tempted to rez one of my own stools. [11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Is that a viewer issue or a code issue? [11:24] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: is same in all viewers [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Most viewers have a common code base to that isn't too surprising. [11:25] Sheera Khan: What do you think of moving the developer meeting to a sandbox where one could actually rezz an item if one wants to show an issue? [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'll brb. I'm going to switch viewers. [11:26] Kayaker Magic: The biggest problem with the reliability of sit scripts is a race condition between the sit script and your AO. [11:26] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Sand box good idea [11:26] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: if is not big object i can open the rezz [11:26] George Equus: I have a wicker chair that never failed on any grid [11:26] Sheera Khan: and then: BYOS (Bring Your Own Stool) [11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: That would be good, but might be better to have a dedicated meeting spot that is setup just for the dev meetings, configured for speed and so Ubit can't break it .. [11:27] George Equus: not sure of name lol   looking.. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: well we are guests at osgrid... but paela is reading :) [11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Now I have to wait for the chairs to rez :P [11:28] Kayaker Magic: You would think they would still be in the cache! [11:28] Sheera Khan: I think it would make sense to be able to rezz for such a meeting [11:28] Ubit Umarov: ( he changed viewer kayaker [11:28] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: rezz in the lasted revision ( last 8 months ) are a big pain [11:28] Kayaker Magic: That sounds like sculpts, the viewer drops their textures in a heartbeat [11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Different viewer, different cache on my end. [11:28] Sheera Khan: and preferably a server where maybe Ubit has access to the console and to debugging tools [11:28] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: is not only in osgrid but somes grids [11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Still, it should have been in the region cache. [11:29] Ubit Umarov: viewers do not share cache [11:29] Ubit Umarov: sure it is on region cache.. [11:29] Sheera Khan: but how long can it take to transfer the meshes from the region cache to any viewer? [11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, too long. :) [11:30] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: all load projet secret region good ? [11:30] Ubit Umarov: depends on yr bandwith setting [11:30] Kayaker Magic: Interesting, these chairs are not linked objects. Every seat cushion is a separate object. [11:30] Sheera Khan: I had no problems with rezzing there [11:31] Ubit Umarov: ( and yr net.. server net.. the usual ) [11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The viewers are still putting a very high load on my CPU and pushing its temp way up. :P [11:31] Ubit Umarov: my gpu is at 78% :( [11:32] Sheera Khan: I have a rather good internet connection (50MBit/s - 10MBit/s) and I had to wait ages for the items on this region [11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, how long did it take before you were able to lock things up with sim crossings? [11:32] Ubit Umarov: cpu 20% [11:32] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: personnally i rezz all very faster and good on this sim but i can speak with jim for he look make other lod [11:32] Kayaker Magic: Around 9 minutes with that script that crosses once every 6 seconds. [11:32] Ubit Umarov: well we all arrived with empty caches ( for this region) [11:33] Ubit Umarov: well mine was really clean :) [11:33] Kayaker Magic: I was learning to write "shader scripts" that run directly on the GPU and found one script that raises my GPU from 50F to 80F [11:33] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: http service can be rewritten [11:33] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: :-P [11:33] Sheera Khan: I arrived 15 mins early and had to wait about 5 mins to see the chairs in the auditorium where I stood [11:34] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: well It only took about 3 minutes for everything to rez for me [11:34] Sheera Khan: there was noone else besides me on this region then [11:34] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the only things that did not rez was a couple of avatars they took about 3 minutes more [11:34] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: again is not a problem of server or mesh is a problem code [11:34] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: remove waiting in code [11:35] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: can help [11:35] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: ... [11:35] Sheera Khan: maybe the server was in deep sleep mode before I arrived^^ [11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, I've been here before so my cache for this region wasn't empty. [11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Back to the earlier problems... [11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sim crossing lock up was one issue. [11:36] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Just depends on when the region tags the cache as expired, if it is expired your viewer will get a new copy regardless if it is still in the cache [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My chair is finally starting to appear. Not fully there yet. [11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ah, at last. [11:37] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: everything has been rezzed for me for a long time, and I had an empty cache, so not thinking there is any thing wrong with the region [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sometimes a region seems to rez faster if you have an empty viewer cache. [11:38] Kayaker Magic: Too bad that "internet health" WEB site is gone.... we could see if there was a problem on the Internet backbone for some people. [11:39] Ubit Test: getting http at1MBps as setting.. [11:39] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: just ping server for see ;) [11:39] Ubit Test: 2mbps on some cases [11:40] Ubit Test: if ppl decide to move to heavy mesh contents... things happen [11:40] Ubit Test: yeap http still going at 1 to 1 mbps [11:41] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: network in viewer is max 1000 kbps after thats break all is same if you have fiber [11:41] Ubit Test: not it is not maxed at 1mbps [11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: A lower network traffic rate setting used to be better than having it too high. Don't know if that is still true. [11:42] Ubit Test: yes.. 2 much and viewers go down [11:42] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: is true andrew [11:44] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: 60 % of peoples cant load the region faster here is the problem ? [11:44] Kayaker Magic: Things do load slower here for me than on other regions. [11:45] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: ⊙Ok ⊙ [11:45] paela.argus @hg.osgrid.org: i look with dan later [11:45] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: paelea, You asked a question near the start of this meeting. I'm not sure you got an answer. Would you repeat the question? [11:45] Ubit Test: osg does apply trafic shaping also [11:46] paela argus: hmm i have lost my question [11:46] paela argus: hahaha [11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org turns up the complexity level so he can see dj phil, Bill, and paela. [11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( those chairs are really irritating :) ) [11:47] Kayaker Magic: Was it the question about reliability of sitting scripts? [11:47] paela argus: oh animation problem [11:47] paela argus: no is not only in script [11:47] paela argus: some time animation never start [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: What function(s) are you using to start the animation? [11:48] Kayaker Magic: llStartAnimation??? [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: ll one or os one? [11:48] paela argus: osstartanimation [11:48] paela argus: example the dance ball [11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, ok. I wondered if it might have been an os one. [11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I always make sure I stop the default sit first, before firing the anim [11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Sometimes the animation will not appear to fire, if your current anim has a higher priority, which is why I try to make sure to stop animations first ... [11:51] paela argus: but the must problem i can see is the load avi with mesh [11:51] paela argus: can take more 50 secondes [11:51] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Takes that long in SL too sometimes [11:51] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: LOL [11:51] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, so everybody always loads their animations with the max priority and now priority is a useless parameter. [11:51] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: exactly Kayaker [11:51] paela argus: but 1 year before rezz so faster in opensim and now so slower is very odd [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: paela, I can't say that I've noticed the problem but I haven't done any scripting latly related to animation. [11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: This CPU load is making it hard to type. :P [11:53] paela argus: your computer doesnt like mesh :D [11:54] Kayaker Magic: I'm not having any CPU problems [11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'm set on ultra and my graphics card and cpu are snoozing [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: 53%CPU load for the viewer and 106% load for Xorg. [11:55] paela argus: O.o* [11:55] Kayaker Magic: ~15% CPU for me. [11:55] paela argus: 10 % [11:55] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: sounds like a driver/firmware/microcode issue in your linux box [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: paela have you tried using the ll functions to see if animations start properly. [11:56] paela argus: i can try yes [11:56] Ubit Umarov: well it depends on what cpu it is :) [11:56] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have a total of 12% cpu for the whole machine, and my graphic card is not even registering [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I blame the viewer. Theyve all been mostly crap these days. [11:56] Kayaker Magic: What is the advantage of the osSit function over the llSit version? [11:56] paela argus: i use a very old mac of 2012 and my cpu are very low % used with the viewer [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: The os functions usually don't require a permissions check [11:57] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: (the fact I have literally 87 chrome tabs open does not help) [11:57] paela argus: all right andrew :) [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I only have 23 windows open in chrome. No sure how many tabs. [11:58] paela argus: ah chrome use some cpu [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: paela, I wouldn't expect much difference between os and ll functions for starting animations but its worth checking. [11:59] paela argus: i try this week and i answer the next meeting :) [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: paela, sounds good. [11:59] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: The os functions also skip any built in delay normally, that are there for ll functions [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other issues for this first meeting of the new year? [12:00] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: we meet again at this place next week? [12:00] paela argus: we have change see display name working a day ? [12:01] paela argus: yes sheera but i look this night with dan the server and config simu [12:01] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: :-) [12:01] Ubit Umarov: we will not suport ll display name changes [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: This has been the meeting location for the last few weeks [12:01] Ubit Umarov: ie will only have legacy names [12:01] paela argus: i said the question because some users want it [12:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: why not just change their actual names? [12:02] paela argus: update name in all service make time bill [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Display names just made a big mess over in SL. [12:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ok .. I do it from my web interface click, change, click, clear cache [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Are you supposed to address other avatars by their display name? If so, how are you supposed to even type some of the display names people use that have all these fancy characters in them?? [12:03] paela argus: is implanted in osgrid too change name but desabled for basic user [12:03] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Hello Unreadable is my greeting then ^^ [12:03] Ubit Umarov: no it is not implemented [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera, you should say Untypeable. :) [12:04] Ubit Umarov: opps you mean db side? [12:04] paela argus: change first and last name are implanted in osgrid ubit :) [12:04] Ubit Umarov: ok i read opensim not osgrid :) [12:05] Ubit Umarov: that at grid level makes sense.. if to be used occasionaly [12:05] Ubit Umarov: ( and with restricted charset :p ) [12:05] paela argus: hey yes [12:05] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: restricted to UTF-8 ^^ [12:06] Ubit Umarov: nahh ascii :p [12:06] paela argus: you are rude ubit :D [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, UTF-8 isn't what I would call "restricted". [12:08] paela argus: some time display name are used in sl for people can use the name of the man after maried [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I hope this year will be the one where the memory leak in Robust gets fixed. [12:12] Ubit Umarov: keep dreaming andrew :p [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, yea, I know. Miracles do happen. [12:12] Ubit Umarov: ( btw i did not forgot the mutes module ) [12:12] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: :-) [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: :)