Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-02

[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Nebadon [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: What's wrong with the seat, Gavin? [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of the spots will not let me sit [11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably a fluke of some sorts :-) [11:14]  George Equus: Permanent fluke then, been problematic for a long time  ;) [11:15] George Equus: I had to try three times... [11:15]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so what's up with OSG. Is it just asset server config issues, or something more fundamental? [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: could be stuff is still loading [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: you are talking about this moon chair? [11:15] George Equus: Hi Neb [11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hello [11:16] George Equus: It probably don't like me... [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [11:17] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ubit [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: scirpt is running a might do loop [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hi ubit [11:17] Ubit Umarov: hi [11:17]  George Equus: Hello Ubit [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there is no loop in these sit scripts on this couch [11:18] Nebadon Izumi: it uses Changed event [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so a might Change event then [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: maybe, events can be flakey sometimes [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: especially with big loads [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: and 1000s of scripts [11:19] Nebadon Izumi: xengine could really stand to be improved [11:20] Nebadon Izumi: this region is most definitely pushing it to the limits [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hard to improve it without knowing how it works. [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure what we can talk about today. I haven't had time to look at the recent change logs for the code in the last couple of days. I've been dealing with upgrading a grid from 0.8.0 to 0.9.0 and its been a bit of a nightmare and it isn't over yet. [11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: but almost. [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ubit has commited a lot over the last few days [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: this region was updated last night [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is it still in flux? [11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I noticed textures are loading much faster here now [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, Ubit has been rather busy in the last few weeks. [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks pulls up the changelog [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit's commit messages are as clear as always. :P [11:23] Ubit Umarov: irony at ths time ? :P [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:24]  Andrew Hellershanks: I like the commit that just says "bug fix". :) [11:24] Ubit Umarov: well you are a dev, you are suposed to read the respective code [11:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev        908b5e8: 2016-08-02 01:37:47 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I just read the change for that commit. I still can't tell what bug was fixed. [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know the code that well. Perhaps it would make more sense if I saw the change in context. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: no matter what a commit message says, one ( at least a dev) should look into the code changes [11:29] Ubit Umarov: things like !=  -> == should be pretty obvius :P [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: It might when one knows what the code is trying to do. [11:30] Ubit Umarov: ahh you want commits to be a opensim manual? lol [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: I've been thinking I should be trying to look at the changes being made to try doing a weekly summary like Justin used to do. [11:30] Nebadon Izumi: that would be great Andrew [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, but its hard for me when I don't really understand what the code is doing. I see a change and know it fixes some issue but I don't always know what issue was fixed. [11:31] Ubit Umarov: usually my "bug fix" are related to mistakes on the previus commits [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I still have to go through the avn code change summary. I may skip some possibly important changes as I may not recognize the significance of some change. [11:32] Ubit Umarov: on unrelated comits i usually say a bit more [11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: without writing a novel, the commit messages could sometimes be a bit more explanatory. The code-base is wast and not everyone has intimate knowledge of it. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: uff no one has [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: I also know it isn't always easy to explain changes in a one line comment. [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: It allows for a few lines [11:33] Ubit Umarov: my thing on the upload appearance was bc we missed that cache assets are not updated on  a new store for example [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Well, with git the idea is you have a one line summary then additional details can be below that. I ignore that convention and just write out the details if I have to write more than one line. [11:34] Ubit Umarov: it is clear...  on the floatsame  files.. not on core :) [11:35] Ubit Umarov: well some on code [11:35]  Ubit Umarov: had a fight with someone that did not understand the lledgeofworld new code :) [11:35] Ubit Umarov: understood [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:36]  Ubit Umarov: well was good.. i had missed a math.sqrt on it :) [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the question ubit, will this section of the code change a lot more, or does it make sense to deploy and test it? [11:37] Ubit Umarov: i had several open issues on my mind [11:37] Ubit Umarov: the http server... [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I built the code with mono 4.4.1 5 days ago and the CPU issue seems to have gone [11:37] Ubit Umarov: sessions and groups ims [11:38] Ubit Umarov: objects ( and avatars) culling options [11:38] Ubit Umarov: regions culling [11:39] Ubit Umarov: crossings still not nice [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: yea CPU is definitely better overall [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: however on my Raspberry Pi cpu is still a tad bit higher than it was on 0.8.2 [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: crossings seems to hog a bit. You kondoff jump a meter into the new region on crossing [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I heard someone say that vehicle crossings were better but they had other issues with crossings. i didn't get the specifics. [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: probably still some room for improvement there [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its definitely better though [11:39] Ubit Umarov: crossings have issues [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: my Pi2 went from pinned at 99% cpu to pinned at 80% [11:40] Ubit Umarov: from example a fast return can be nasty [11:40] Ubit Umarov: and on crossing you may endup under ground [11:40] Ubit Umarov: also with nasty effects [11:40] Danger Lytton is Offline [11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, how fast? I've sometimes done fast returns when I crossed regions without meaning to do so. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: ( ubOde may send u up to the sky also bullet ) [11:41] Ubit Umarov: it depends on lag and load [11:42] Ubit Umarov: if you return and the sending region is still on the crossing code.. outch [11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: Does it just mess up the avatar or does the region get messed up? [11:43] Ubit Umarov: usually avatar [11:43] Danger Lytton is Online [11:43] Ubit Umarov: it may take 2 relogs or tps to clear it [11:43]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, that's annoying but not too bad. [11:43] Ubit Umarov: you endup sitting in sky and odd things like that [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:44]  Ubit Umarov: last changes on crossing where about reducing or delay of grid services calls [11:45]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ubit, the last time I checked the libode.dylig that is attached in 0007881 is not in master [11:45]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: could you make that happen? [11:45]  Ubit Umarov: for example groups info could take 2 seconds here [11:46]  Ubit Umarov: i don't have tools to create it :( [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is attached to the mantis [11:46] Ubit Umarov: even last updates to linux where made by dan and mel [11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so just copy it in [11:47]  Ubit Umarov: thats for mac right? [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is one in lib64, but it is a 32-bit library [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:47] Ubit Umarov: you need to compile it [11:47]  Ubit Umarov: and give us lol [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: soI did compile it [11:47]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a dylib is a compiled library [11:47] Ubit Umarov: source is at opensim-libs git [11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I know :-) [11:47]  Ubit Umarov: cool [11:48]  Ubit Umarov: then it it is ok, we can give it to one of us so we update [11:48]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just move the one in lib64 to lib32 [11:48]  Ubit Umarov: mac still have 32b and 64b variants? [11:49]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mono on OS X is only stable in 32 bit [11:49]  Ubit Umarov: err that whould smoke [11:49]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so all the libraries are compiled 32.bit [11:49]  Ubit Umarov: yes but you can't use the 64b on 32 [11:49]  Ubit Umarov: thats C not managed code [11:49]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is not a 64 bit build of it [11:50]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is just misplaced [11:50]  Ubit Umarov: oh ? [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: we have so few mac testers [11:50]  Nebadon Izumi: the only person I know who has a mac is Melanie, but she doesnt use it for testing opensim [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I test it [11:51]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my grid is completely rinnong on OS X with mono [11:51] Ubit Umarov: so you are telling justin placed the 32b version on the 64b folder? [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the library called libode.dylib in lib64, delete it. It is ancient [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Architectures in the fat file: libode.dylib are: i386 x86_64 ppc7400 [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as you see it is compiled for powerpc even [11:52] Ubit Umarov: outch :) [11:52]  Nebadon Izumi: yea long time ago we had IBM people using PPC [11:52]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the one attached ty my mantis 7881 [11:52]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: place it in lib32 [11:52]  Ubit Umarov: oh i missed that mantis :( [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:53]  Ubit Umarov: btw you can help fixing the build instructions for mac [11:54]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually the current instructions worked pretty good [11:54]  Ubit Umarov: ohh cool [11:54]  New Styler: hiya guys [11:54]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll watch for changes and build the lib when needed [11:54]  Ubit Umarov: so you say we should drop 64n suport for mac ? [11:54]  New Styler: mind if i ask what this class is about?? [11:55]  Ubit Umarov: bc of mono [11:55]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:55]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nobody will run mono 64 bit on OS X yet [11:55]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is old [11:55]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: out of date [11:55]  George Equus: Hi New [11:55]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi New [11:55]  New Styler: hiya [11:55]  Andrew Hellershanks: New Styler, it isn't a class. This is the weekly Open Simulator developer meeting where we discuss issues relating to the project. All are welcome to attend. [11:56] Ubit Umarov: ( why was i alone at that corner? :) ) [11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: We are coming up on the top of the hour. [11:56]  Andrew Hellershanks: No idea, Ubit. [11:57]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, anything new and exciting happening in the world of viewer development? [11:57]  George Equus: I need to go on the hour sharp ish [11:57]  New Styler: mind if i bring something in or are you all on something special atm? [11:57]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IDK what to say :-O [11:57]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, George. ty for dropping in. [11:57]  Ubit Umarov: you seen that mantis about avatarhover? [11:57]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we built a version of Kokua with the vlc plugin for Windows [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: Gavin if you are interested [11:58]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, np. I just like to give some people working on other issues a chance to pass along information. [11:58] George Equus: Always interesting to listen in even if mostly "geek talk" to me  :) [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: Singularity team is looking for someone who can compile Mac viewer for tem I think [11:58]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Nebadon I tried [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: ah ok [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: no luck eh? [11:58]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [11:58]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no [11:58]  Nebadon Izumi: bummer [11:59]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the problem is the LL code is such a moving target at the moment, we have problems keeping up [11:59]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, what was the problem with building Sing for Mac? [11:59]  Ubit Umarov: well DIva closed that avatarhover mantis with a coment to look for something [11:59]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it just doen't build on xcode 7.3 [11:59]  Ubit Umarov: we just don't suport that... [11:59]  Nebadon Izumi: New Styler you can talk about anything that is OpenSim releated [11:59] Ubit Umarov: the region setting i mean [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no viewer at all is building on Xcode 8 [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: bugs, or development stuff is what we mostly discuss here [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: but really anything on the topic of opensimulator is ok :) [11:59]  Ubit Umarov: and we do not send it on appearance field [12:00]  Ubit Umarov: but IT DOES work :) [12:00] New Styler: is there also a way to improve stability of the grid itself? [12:00] George Equus: OK  ta ta all cu [12:00]  Ubit Umarov: bc it is also on  a visualparamenter [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: you mean OSGrid? or just opensimulator in general? [12:00] Ubit Umarov: so that does sound like ll junk [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of the viewers will not work on OS X 10.12 that is now in public beta [12:00] New Styler: i think the grid itself can be more stable [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: code is too old, and Sing is kindoff in that category [12:00] New Styler: is that a hardware related issue the instabillity? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: you mean the downtime for OSgrid I assume? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: our problems are not directly related to opensimulator itself [12:01] New Styler: yes [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but the netwrok cluster File system we are using [12:01] Ubit Umarov: ( stable grids? you are a dreamer ;) ) [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: there is a bug in CentOS 6 [12:01]  Andrew Hellershanks grins at Ubit [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: we are actually running the asset servers through diagnostics right now [12:01]  Nebadon Izumi: Caster passed with flying colors yesterday [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: our asset servers are named Castor and Pollux [12:02]  Andrew Hellershanks: cute [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: Pollux is under going diagnostics today [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: and will probably have one of its 6tb drives replaced [12:02]  Ubit Umarov: hmm our banks passed stress tests with flying color [12:02]  Ubit Umarov: and BUMMM [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: howwever this doesnt address the bug in the cluster app [12:02]  Nebadon Izumi: for that we are in the short term going to switch the asset cluster into a standalone mode [12:03]  Nebadon Izumi: so instead of load balancing between both servers [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: it will just be 1 server active [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: the other will be a clone [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that we can how swap if the primary has issues [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks thinks its a good thing Nebadon isn't wearing his Alien avatar today. [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that should reduce downtime by a lot [12:03] New Styler: lol [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: long term goal is to upgrade both servers to CentOS 7 [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and get back on load balancing [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: 1 server really should be sufficient for the grids needs though [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: for the short term [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: How long do think it will take to get all that done, nebadon? [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: the more important thing is the data is being backed up [12:04]  Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure Andrew [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: Melanie and Dan are dealing with that [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: until Avination is back online [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we probably wont even consider the CentOS upgrades [12:05] Ubit Umarov: some may say centOS is a downgrade :) [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: however from this point forward [12:05]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: neb you are a cloud [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: downtime should be reduced considerably [12:05]  Ubit Umarov: to  stable software [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: i am rebaking [12:05]  Nebadon Izumi: maybe that will help :) [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon looked fine to me [12:06]  New Styler: another thing that came up wich came up by a few is the voice issue in ims. is there a way to improve that or any fix to do a multiple voicecall in ims? [12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: 00 [12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: something has happened to my clothes [12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: wth? [12:06] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: 00 [12:06] Ubit Umarov: those are broken [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Welcome, Zayden [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: not easily New Styler [12:06] Ubit Umarov: we don't have multiple IMs sessions [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: Zayden [12:07] Ubit Umarov: even groups ims are.. well ... [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its best to put your entire outfit into your Suitcase [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: when you are traveling [12:07] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: ok [12:07]  Nebadon Izumi: its much more reliable that way [12:07] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: ok [12:07]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and i can just create a folder called "Suitcase" under inventory and toss it in there. [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: New, by multiple voice calls in IM do you mean being able to privately chat in voice with more than one person at the same time (ie. conference call)? [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: You should already have a suitcase folder [12:08] New Styler: yes i mean that [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: it gets created on your first HG teleport [12:08] Ubit Umarov: yes andrew [12:08] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002 is Online [12:08] Ubit Umarov: one to one seems to work [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: if this was your first HG teleport ever [12:08] Ubit Umarov: even with voice [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: it wont show up untuil you log out and back in again [12:08] Ubit Umarov: but conference.. total brokne [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I've never done private voice chats and have not heard of someone doing one with multiple people. [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess OpenSim use the same vivox server backend as Linden lab does? [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cause theya re about to make major changes [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: but we are not given access to the SDK source or Documentation [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: we do a lot of guessing [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I know there was an issue that may have been viewer related as to who can initiate private voice chat call. [12:09] Ubit Umarov: you can't do multiple ims andrew no code for them [12:09] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: oh. [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: everyone who uses Vivox on OpenSim [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: sshares teh same Vivox cloud account [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: 25,000 users per node [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that's what I thought [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: we get 1 node [12:10] Ubit Umarov: thing is that only groups ims where considered [12:10] Ubit Umarov: and code for them are on each groups moduie [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so with the changes they have planned, any viewer that don't get the new code will not have voice support any more [12:10] Ubit Umarov: that is wrong [12:10] New Styler: is there a differents in code with example sl and os? [12:10] Ubit Umarov: also groups im are session IMs... [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it will probably always support old viewers [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and the new code don't run on Linux [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: SL probably like 75% of their users use old viewers [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will not support old viewers [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that's going to be a problem for me. I don't run anything but Linux. [12:11] Ada.Radius @grid.kitely.com:8002 is Online [12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: well, 99.99% of the time. [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are trying to get it running on wine [12:11] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: oh i'd imagine even that will eventually change. [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but IDK if that will be possible at all [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: you are talking about vivox? [12:11] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: change is the only constant. [12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is the old viewers will probably still work [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: but just not be able to communicate with new viewers [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have said they wont [12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no voice support for old viewers [12:13] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: perhaps we should hold meetings on the roof. [12:13] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: one sec. [12:13]  Nebadon Izumi: well what i mean is old viewers will be able to talk to each other [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: but not to new viewers [12:13] Ubit Umarov: or on a empty flat region :) [12:13]  Andrew Hellershanks: What will it take to get Linux supported once more? [12:13]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: does not initiating a session involve a server? [12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: actually from what I heard its just LL wont support the linux version anymore [12:14]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we don't know Andrew [12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: but they will allow TPVs to make the linux client work [12:14]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL has suggested trying to get the windows version running in wine [12:14]  Nebadon Izumi: my guess is that wont work so well [12:14]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: that is really neer a good alternative. [12:14]  Ubit Umarov: i heard its vivox that is also dropig linux [12:15]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and none of us knows how to write a voice server [12:15]  Ubit Umarov: you can't [12:15]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, there will not be any Linux support is the word out of LL [12:15]  Andrew Hellershanks: Sounds like we need an alternative to Vivox. [12:15] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: there is one [12:15] Ubit Umarov: its a patented sistem etc etc [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: well [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats not totally true [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: someone in theory could use MOAP [12:15] Ubit Umarov: mumble used to work [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be a good time to get Mumble working and whatever the other part of that is. [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: for voice solution [12:16] Ubit Umarov: just a pain viewer side [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: or TPVs would have to integrate new voice module [12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Telegraph client built into the viewer [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: like Mumble or something [12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: we coudl use teamspeak [12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: or mumble [12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: or whisper [12:16] Ubit Umarov: mumble needs viewer integration to be usefull for most users [12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: or freeswitch [12:16] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: the last 3 are all opens ource vivox alternatives [12:17] Ubit Umarov: well all of those :) [12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: now that the viewer isnt using hacky webclient anymore [12:17]  Nebadon Izumi whispers: may be possible to use the chrome stuff to do voice eventually [12:17]  Ubit Umarov: we can't ask users to replace the llVoice each time they go to sl and back to pensim [12:17]  Nebadon Izumi: may be possible to use the chrome stuff to do voice eventually [12:17]  Andrew Hellershanks: Freeswitch was always a pain to get running [12:17]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: wanna use whisper? mumble?  freespeak? [12:18]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: necessity is the mother of invention [12:18]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: which means whn you need something you make it [12:18]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: now this is needed b/c vivox is dropping support for linux [12:18]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it gets down to codecs [12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: well linux is open source [12:18] Ubit Umarov: i was using mumble before vivox [12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if they are licensed for open source or not [12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i know you were. [12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: see ubit was using mumble. [12:18] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: tell them what happened next ubit. [12:18] Ubit Umarov: worked but was a pain for users [12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: see? [12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: it had a difficult user experience. [12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: but it DID work. [12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: as i have said to many who cared to experience my information. [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: I wonder if the new chrome stuff has HTML5 voice stuff [12:19] Nebadon Izumi: like firefox and chrome would have [12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: there is always away if you just leave. [12:19] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: * a way  * believe [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: if the viewer has WebRTC stuff then it could be possible maybe eventually [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: to do a P2P voice solution [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the CEF plugin currently use QuickTime on Windows and OS X [12:20]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: why is webrtc so bad ? [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: well its young [12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are rewriting the Window one to use VLC [12:20] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: there is something about webrtc that is super bad... oh yes... it allows even users of vpn's to be identified. [12:20] Nebadon Izumi: webrtc is in infancy still [12:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the idea is that the Linux version will do the same [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats only because its so new [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: webRTC will eventually get more secure [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: but i can tell you right now [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: vivox is not secure [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: even a little [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:21] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: read my lips... webrtc tattles on vpn endpoints. [12:21] Nebadon Izumi: vivox is probably one of the most shady companies on earth [12:21] New Styler: they sell drugs too? [12:21] New Styler: lolz [12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: they probably have  an entire room dedicated to my adventures. [12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: :O [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the new vivox client will close the security issues, they say [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: its nearly impossible to tell who actually owns Vivox [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: they did some wierd sale a year or two ago [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: and its been super shady ever since then [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, rewriting which Windows thing to use VLC? [12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: dont worry unless it is hillary clinton. [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but is not licensed / built for Linux [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the CEF plugin [12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: why dont we just use opensource tools [12:22] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: keep it all opensource... [12:22] Nebadon Izumi: yea the HTML5 stuff though its super new [12:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Crome Extensible Framewrok [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it will get more secure and better [12:23] Nebadon Izumi: have to start some where though [12:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which now handles html data and media in some viewers such as Kokua [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, ok. VLC is available for Linux so that part won't be an issue. [12:23] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: bam ... [12:23] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: vlc [12:23] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: bam... [12:24] dj phil is Online [12:24] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i have a solution... [12:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL says if there is a Linux VLC version it will be 64-bit only [12:25] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: in the spirit of progressivism i see that. [12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: we probably will have to build it ourselves [12:25] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: but...  64 bit graphics in linux leaves a bit to be desired... [12:25]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, that's ok. I've switched to a 64-bit Linux. [12:25] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: ( no pun intended) [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: actually [12:25] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev        908b5e8: 2016-08-02 01:37:47 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [12:25] Nebadon Izumi: 32 bit linux will be totally gone soon in general [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSuSe Leap is already 64 only [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: Ubuntu is talking about v18 being 64 bit only [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: in the next 3 years 32 bit linux will be gone 100% [12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: yes. as a general knowledge for all... [12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i was able to run opensim on slitaz linux using 256 meg of ram. [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: no doubt some people will try to maintain 32 bit versions [12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: only 3 people could be on the sim with scripts and things built [12:26] Nebadon Izumi: btu all mainstream linux it will be gone [12:26] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and that was on a pentium 3 800 mhz [12:27] Andrew Hellershanks: There used to be a few common apps running under Linux that were 32-bit only. One of those was the Acrobat reader. Since Adobe no longer supports a Linux version that app no longer matters that much. [12:27] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: running slitaz linux (fastest linux on earth) [12:27] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: also... [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: yea from what i hear its becoming more and more difficult to maintain 32 bit stuff [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: because of linux kernel changes [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: not surprising really [12:27] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: if you all know searidge...  movlab.. well he has made a rasberry pi software image that lets people run opensim on rasberry pi. [12:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bumpy landcape ahead :-)) [12:27] Nebadon Izumi: most new hardware is going 64 bit [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: I have opensim running one of my Pi's [12:28]  Nebadon Izumi: you can visit it here on OSGrid [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: "OKC Raspberry Pi2" [12:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Zayden, nebadon is already running OS on a Pi [12:28]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: the pi has 4 cores, cost 30 dollars, and can run 6 sims, and uses 5 watts of electricity (compare to 500 watt pc power supply) [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i dont know about 6 sims [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: i have a 768x768 var [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: 1gb ram is quite limiting [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: you could run a single var [12:28] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: do you have the same image that movlab searidge does? [12:28] Nebadon Izumi: but running 6 single sims i dont think so [12:29]  Nebadon Izumi: I made my own image [12:29] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: well i mean regions [12:29] New Styler: i believe that 32 bit will slowly move down the picture and its already going down fast cause most newer software will go mostly by 64 bit if i pay attemntion well enough [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: 1 sec [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: i have a tutorial for you [12:29] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: and he has heavily adjusted it [12:29]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: but it works fantastic according to them [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.s-config.com/opensimraspberry-pi-rasbian-hard-float-works/ [12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you should be able to run it on a watch with the output going to glasses [12:29] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: yes i  have seen it all. [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya its not bad [12:29] Nebadon Izumi: having 2gb ram would be nicer :) [12:29]  Nebadon Izumi: i hope raspberry pi eventually makes a 2gb version [12:30]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: if you join the pi's, to make a doubledecker you have more ram in your pi [12:30]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: finally. [12:30]  Nebadon Izumi: well [12:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, probably just a question of time before they do [12:30]  Nebadon Izumi: opensim wont run well in a cluster [12:30]  Nebadon Izumi: cluster apps have to be written to specifically run in cluster config [12:30]  Nebadon Izumi: still [12:30]  Nebadon Izumi: its a fun project [12:30]  Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder how much ram they have in the Banana Pi [12:30]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i would like to tell you all that yesterday i saw someone has made adjustable glasses, i think we should get a pair in case someone loses their glasses, we can just give them the adjustable ones. the power/strength can be changed by dials on the sides. [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIOcotKGsDg [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on the model of banana pi [12:31]  Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: i go. [12:31] Zayden.Storm @hypergrid.org:8002: have fun everyone. [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: the odroic oc-2 is supposed to be better [12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: It is now half past. Any other last thoughts before we wrap up todays meeting? [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: i looked at a pine64 but wasnt too impressed [12:31] Andrew Hellershanks: Isn't that more expensive? [12:31] Nebadon Izumi: they have quality issues [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: yes the odroid is like 59$ [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: USD [12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: um... the Odoid I mean [12:32] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: still its under 100$ [12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: There is also the $9 CHiP but I don't remember how much RAM it has. [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: the best one overall is the lattepanda [12:32] Andrew Hellershanks: Haven't heard of that one [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: they have a quad core with 4gb ram [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: its 130$ though [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: still [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: and its also x86 [12:32] Nebadon Izumi: not arm [12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, 45 UK pounds for the lattepanda. [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.lattepanda.com/ [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: they have 2 versions [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: a 2gb and a 4gb ram [12:33] Andrew Hellershanks: that puts it over $100 for me. [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: its a bit more expensive [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: but its far more powerful thana pi is too [12:33] Nebadon Izumi: its a quad core atom [12:33] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to call the meeting to a close for today. [12:34] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a cat calling for me. :) [12:34] Nebadon Izumi: I like raspberyr pi though its a fun machine [12:34]  Nebadon Izumi: yea [12:34]  Nebadon Izumi: i should be working actually myself [12:34]  Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:34]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thanks everyone [12:34]  New Styler: anybody that could help me out after this meeting? [12:35]  Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks everyone [12:35]  Nebadon Izumi: ya until next week [12:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: I want to get back to work on the AVR software I'm developing using my Pi. [12:35]  Nebadon Izumi: have fun all [12:35]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bye [12:35]  Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002 is Offline [12:35]  Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for dropping by. See you again next week. [12:35]  Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.6 (w/sit & launch): Goodbye.. [12:35]  Nebadon Izumi: is anyone doing the log on wiki?