Chat log from the meeting on 2013-03-05

 [11:01] Hiro Protagonist is online. [11:02] Sarah Kline: hi [11:02] dan banner: hi sarah [11:02] dan banner: justin [11:02] dan banner: everyone [11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hi sarah, dan, folks [11:03] Sarah Kline: hi Justin [11:03] Master Dubrovna: Hi everyone [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, justing [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: -g [11:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi All [11:03] Vivian Klees: hello [11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: Nebadon doing to be coming today? [11:04] Jak Daniels: Hi all :-) [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: He is on his way, justin [11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: ok [11:05] Nebadon Izumi is online. [11:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have a quick question about configuring HyperGrid... [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have a separate assets database [11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi neb [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: and, when I come here, HG is looking at my regular grid database for the assets [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: 14:03:46 - [ASSETS DB]: MySql failure fetching asset d9ba3ee3-ad13-4be4-bac8-a0b457ea2c74: Table 'ugim.assets' doesn't exist [11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: has anyone seen that before? [11:06] Nebadon Izumi: what the heck [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: UGIM i havent heard that term in ages [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: well, that's my old database that holds the grid info [11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: UGIM? That was the old system back in the 0.6 days wasn't it? [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:07] Nebadon Izumi: that was pre-robust [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: is that very recent? [11:07] Justin Clark-Casey: the failing lookups I mean [11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: my assets is in a separate database, by HG insists on calling the other database [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: no, but I have just reconfigured it [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I though I was missing some new option to cause it. [11:08] Nebadon Izumi: does that asset exist? [11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm not sure then. If you look back in the mailing list, i did have that conversation recently with someone about using a different connection for asset data [11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: seems that somethig in Robust is creating another asset service using the default database connection [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohh, ok I'll look up that thread [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: there must be a section that needs the connection string to be overridden [11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thanks [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: could be [11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: On a related note, I've been wondering why a grid running 073PF that is not enabled for HG complains about some HG issue when trying to search for a region via the map. [11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: Crista was making those simplifying config changes recently so i don't know if it could also be connected with that [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: Andrew: yes, there's some leakage there [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, I'm working on moving to 075PF soon so I'm hoping that will go away. [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it can make an hg complaint in some circumstances even though it can't do any hg checks [11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know that for sure - it's not an area I look at regularly [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. [11:11] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: (just a FYI, I see 5 T-posers here) [11:12] Nebadon Izumi: everyone looks ok to me [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: even though people are sitting down? [11:12] Justin Clark-Casey: looks ok to me too [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: guess they just standing to attention for me :) [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: yup. look good to me too [11:13] Sarah Kline: its an HG think probably [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: or a network thing [11:13] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: ++ I see some, is it a HG visitor thing? [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: packets being dropped or out of order [11:13] Secret Alt: fresh login, no t-poses [11:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: could be Sarah though i havent been seeing it elsewhere [11:13] Nebadon Izumi: it could be Fred [11:14] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: no bigie, just thought i would mention it [11:14] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: I see twins [11:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya sounds like it might be HG related, hard to say for sure [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: worth knowing, [11:15] Justin Clark-Casey: viewer plays a big role in tihs stuff as well [11:15] Secret Alt: probably lag induced ari [11:15] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: pinging 168 which is amazing for me [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: at wright [11:16] Dahlia Trimble is online. [11:16] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: used to be 1680 :) [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: ythat kind of number means there's definitely something wrong somewhere :) [11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: a big challenge with such complex systems is pinning down where a problem actually is [11:17] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: nod [11:17] Secret Alt: 28ms here [11:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: isolating the issue between grid, region, network, viewer etc is complicated for sure [11:19] Vivian Klees: hi Dahlia [11:19] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i been wondering about the possibility of having groups able to access group modules on different standalones/grids at the same time? [11:20] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: Hi Dahlia [11:20] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: what do you mean? [11:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: well as an example when i am on my minigrid, i would like to be still able to have access to a group i belong to on Osgrid for example [11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: it sort of works by putting the osgrid address for groups [11:22] logger sewell: Hi all [11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: for chat? [11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but i can only send messages, not receive when i am on my own grid [11:22] Dahlia Trimble: hi [11:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: yes chat in groups [11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: I thnk one issue here is that it might be difficult to limit to chat. The groups system extends into object owenship as well [11:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: so that would e or a potential security issue? [11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: for just chat, it would almost be nicer if this was done purely through the viewer connecting to some well known opensim-independent IM system [11:25] Dusty Sands: Hi everyone [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: well, more a "what happens if I select this group as active and create an object" scenario [11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dusty [11:25] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i see [11:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: just would be a great feature for those on standalones and mini grids [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: though having said this, something must already happen if you have a group selected and you create an object on a foreign simulator [11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I have no idea what happens in that circumstance [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: it probably says something like group doesnt exist [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: there is a similar problem with OARs and IARS [11:26] Nebadon Izumi: if you make an OAR with a ton of group stuff set [11:27] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: Would it be a bad thing to find a way of storing a simulator configs (.ini stuff) to another special ini, enabling current setting to be replicated to other simulators [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: and load it into a foreign grid you get wierd message about the group [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: why another special ini? [11:27] Nebadon Izumi: if i am making a OAR like the Universal Campus i edit my database prior to making the oar to remove all group data [11:27] Fred.Appleby @hg.viewtwo.net:8654: sort of a capture [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: what kind of message? It should be the case now that gruops that don't exist are just set to none [11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: fred: I don't undersand [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ah thats possible, its been a while since ive done that [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yeah, I did addresse some issues in tha tarea [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: but in the past before that was fixed it wasnt really a problem [11:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ahh ok Neb....maybe thats what happened with some object that have no creator owner data on an oar i transferred recently [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: that was my point [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: though it would actually be nice to be able to have OARs create groups if necessary for some cirumstances [11:28] Nebadon Izumi: previously it would just say Unknown or something [11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, maybe something like that happens - I really don;' tknow [11:30] Dahlia Trimble: if oars create groups then they would probably need to also add people to groups, which could get messy [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: are you saying you can get that to work but you need to appending something or other with 'osgrid.org'? [11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: the messages out works [11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, bt not messages in? [11:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but not group chat coming in [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: maybe that's just a bug that's worth mentioning to diva [11:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: so it should work? [11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: though I can imagine remote message delivery to hg may be practically impossible [11:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: i assume it isnt something that people normally do [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: as the host grid would not store the URI to send it to if you're not actually there [11:32] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: shouldnt be if messages can get to HG friends.... [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I think HG friend's encodes the uri [11:32] dan banner: no i dont think using osgrid groups or profiles on a standalone was ever intended [11:32] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but if i am a member of the osgrid group.....? [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: I guess the same could be true of groups [11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, that's a good point [11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, must provide an override connect string in HGAssets section [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: you shouldnt have any trouble joining a group inside OSgrid if your a HG visitor [11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: \o/ [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: so may well be worth mentioning to diva to see what she thinks. She is the coder of practically all the hg stuff [11:33] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: there isnt [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: but i really doubt you will be able to access the group outside of the grid [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: well, it appears you can send messages [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: inside the grid? [11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: arielle: and other people definitely receive those messages? [11:33] Nebadon Izumi: or outside? [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: yes Justin [11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: from what arielle is saying, she can send messages externally to an osgrid.org group but cannot get replies [11:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: they receive even if i send from my own grid [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt seem possible to me [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: unless the standalone was setup to access osgrid groups [11:34] Nebadon Izumi: which would probably be a bad idea to rely on that [11:34] dan banner: yup [11:35] Dahlia Trimble: osgrid has open group services, maybe it allows some unintended interactions? [11:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: it only works when i set the GroupserverUri= Remote grid [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: unless the simulator can talk directly to the xmlrpc.php i dont see how it could group chat at all to the grid [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: thats what I thought Arielle [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: that would not be a good thing to rely on [11:35] Justin Clark-Casey: that could be it - you could send directly to the osgrid.org groups service but it doesn't know how to send back [11:35] Nebadon Izumi: right [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I do not think it would be good for us to support groups outside of this grip personally [11:36] Dahlia Trimble: if your minigrid had public group services it might work? [11:36] Nebadon Izumi: the scale of that would be horribly bad [11:36] Justin Clark-Casey: because sending messages actually relies on the list of people online, not anything that groups itself stores [11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: nod [11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: too bad [11:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: would be nice [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: i think it would be bad myself [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: say you have a standalone region [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: and 1000 HG visitors join your local group [11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that would utterly clobber your sim [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: sending out messages to who knows how many grids simultanously [11:38] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: wouldnt my message go to the grid group xmlrpc to be dispersed? [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: depends [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: no, it doesn't work that way [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: if everyone was from the same grid yes [11:38] Justin Clark-Casey: the simulator itself distributes the message at this time [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have people from 100s of standalones/grids [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that gets nasty [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya i guess it does [11:38] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ok understood [11:38] Nebadon Izumi: ya even LL has troubles with groups [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: groups is just a store of who is in what group and what roles, etc. [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: the way they implemented groups is not good [11:39] Nebadon Izumi: they have major issue with group chat too in large groups in SL [11:39] Justin Clark-Casey: it doesn't perform any operations [11:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: nods [11:40] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: ok maybe revisit in the distant future :) [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: what would make more sense to me [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: is someone develop a HUD chat system [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: that uses MOAP [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: to connect to some kind of central chat service [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah. In principle you could store the HG address in groups like friends [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am intending on developing something soon like that myself [11:41] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: like irc Neb? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: for something we are working on [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: IRC could be used [11:41] Justin Clark-Casey: heh, irc. [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i was thinking something more elegant [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but IRC is a possibility [11:41] Dahlia Trimble: I used to use mibbit in built in browser in the viewer [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but then you could make like a communicator hud that has no bounds [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: irc has the simplifying assumption of no offline delivery and you have to be registered in the chanel to receive [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: it would even work in SL [11:42] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: but would those be allowed in core? [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: moap is quite taxing though [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would not need to be in core [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: taxing how? [11:42] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: or like it is for groups now? [11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: you need a whole webkit instance - takes memory [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: it could be a freebie prim you distribute as an IAR [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: and that's one less for any other moap usage [11:43] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev         1bc8692: 2013-03-02 01:43:54 +0000 (Unix/Mono) [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: but pragmatically it's the easiest way [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: hmm ive not noticed any performance loss using MOAP myself [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: there's also this: http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/jabberimproxy/ [11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: One you might not. Once you have more it's a big memory hit [11:43] Dahlia Trimble: allows viewer to use XMPP [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya wasnt SL exploring using jabber at one point? [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: for XMPP? [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: but abandoned it at the last minute [11:44] Vivian Klees: correct [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: interesting dahlia, this still works with core opensim? [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: or is it not reliant on the simulator at all? [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: it should [11:45] Dahlia Trimble: its not part of opensim, its a gridproxy plugin [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya was just looking at readme [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: nice [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: sounds maybe a little complicated for the masses [11:46] Dahlia Trimble: ya was more a dev tool [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well once I get a hud chat system working [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i will let everyone know [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: maybe we can test it [11:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: cool [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i am going to need people for some load tests in the next coming months [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: for many things [11:47] OtakuMegane Desu: Yay load testing [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: we are going to push things to the edge [11:48] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002 checks her safety rope [11:49] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: what sort of things getting pushed to the edge? [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: we want to see what the practical limits for avatar counts are [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: when you have like 4 regions and do a corner setup [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: like they do in SL for big meetings [11:50] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: like the intel dsg thingie? [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: try to get like 150+ avatars together [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: no while that would be nice, i do not think thats quite ready yet [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: that will be a challenge in a lot of respects [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: 150 people is still a small test for some groups but its a start. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: 150 people in 4 regions though [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: its never been done [11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: probably will need some better data collectio nfacilities as well, to assess how hard the ssimulator is being hit, etc. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: 4 regions that touch that is [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, might be worth just doing 2 regions first. I dunno [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: ya we'll be doing many tests [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: to see what works best [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and hopefully improvements come out of it [11:51] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: whaats the max been for one instance so far? 55? [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we need to focus on stuff like border crossing [11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I actually don't know [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know what the practical bottleneck for a single sim is [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: we had 85 here once at Wright Plaza [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: whether it's in the sheer amount of network traffic generated or something else [11:52] Dahlia Trimble: I think wright plaza max is 87ish [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: it gets rough at 60 though [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: 40 in 1 region is not a problem at all [11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: and it's highly dependent upon whether people are sitting/standing/moving, number of objects in sim, number of textures in sim, number of screipts in sim [11:52] OtakuMegane Desu: But some things were disabled and stuff though, wasn't it? [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its when you have 4 regions next to each other with 40 each [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think anyone can say for sure how that would go [11:53] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: with all the childeren [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, the neighbouring region is a vastly more complex problem [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: all that inter-sim communication [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey hudders [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya [11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: and the current bug of losing baked textures on border cross [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: its a lot of talking [11:53] Dahlia Trimble: does inter-region chat work? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it did at one point [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but i am not sure now [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if not its something we need to fix probably [11:54] Dahlia Trimble: I dont recall it ever working [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: I do, but it was long ago [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: really long ago [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: are you talking about chatting over a border? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yes [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: Does that really not work? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: no clue [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we need to test i guess [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: haha [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: I swear I've asked this questio nbefore./... [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: dont think so [11:54] Justin Clark-Casey: it really should work [11:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: have to switch to IM [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: it did work at one point [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but i have vague memory of it stoping working [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we made a lot of changes to region comms [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: since I would have thought all that would have to happen is for child agents to get sent chat messages [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and i think that fell through the crack at some point [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: from root agents [11:55] OtakuMegane Desu: I suppose it's something most people don't think about at this stage [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: not even an inter-sim comm issue... though maybe I;'m asusming it's more simple than it is [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: I would have thought it's the same mechanism that people see things in other regions [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: lets test [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: someone want to come test with me? [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we can solve this right now [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:55] Justin Clark-Casey: which is via child agents, not by moving data between simulators [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: well, unless anyone has any other quick opensim questions :) [11:56] Justin Clark-Casey: we're pretty much at the top of the hour [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: someone follow me and we can test [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: brb [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Now that groups is being moved in to the OS source tree I wonder if there is any point my trying to finish off getting group notice attachments working with flotsam groups. [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: nope [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: does not work [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I still think flotasm is a good idea - it will be much more efficient than the c# service [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: huh [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: i sort of remember it breaking a long time ago [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: and never getting fixed [11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: well that sucks [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I do have it half way done. Would be nice to see if I can finish it. [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: last time i remember it working, Adam was still submitting patches [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol [11:58] Nebadon Izumi: so ya been a while [11:59] Dahlia Trimble: I dont remember it ever working but I cant say Ive tried it for a long time [11:59] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: was afk - what is broken? [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: its probably not a huge task to make it work [11:59] Nebadon Izumi: cross border chat [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Chat over a border? Isn't that partly controlled by a land setting and whether voice chat is to be restricted to a given land parcel or not? [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohh, that doesn't woerk? [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: voice yes [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: text chat no [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: weird [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, typing chat. hm... [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: i remember in SL being so mad [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: at people yelling [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: in the club next to my mall [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: felt like punching them in the face [12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: well, certainly the code only tries to deliver chat to root agents [12:00] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: lol [12:00] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have been wondering if changing the comms broke the scripted movement across borders too [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: scripted movement? [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yes [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: well scripts can cross border [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: but they have to recompile [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: state should be saved though [12:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they can now? [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: that is my understanding [12:01] Nebadon Izumi: i would of course have to test [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: i do so little border crossing [12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have a script that used to travel across several regions [12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: but, it has been ages since it worked [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: hmm [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: the chat code has been in place since at least april 2012 though probably earlier [12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there may be some settings in OpenSim.ini [12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: no obvious reason for limiting chat delivery to root agents [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: by default though script states should be passed over border crossing [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: but the recompile of the script could take a bit [12:03] Stefanie Warden: can i find a Ao in here? [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: and depending on your script [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, though maybe this is distance calculation linked [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: you might be wiping out the state [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah, it just dies [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i remember a long time ago we had to make scripts a certain way because we werent saving states [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Stefanie, how many would you like? [12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it does wipe the variables [12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, maybe that's why [12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya that might be the problem [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: we can't currently tell where the root agent is if they are in a neighbour [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: so you can't do a chat distance calc [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: might require a little rengineering [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: oh [12:04] Nebadon Izumi: that might be why it got turned off hehe [12:04] Justin Clark-Casey: it would require knowing that position, which is complex unless yo hand the mssage off to the nighbour sim for delivery [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: mmm, this is going to be an issue [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: we must know child avatar locations though [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: no [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: how would we see them correctly in the nieghbor sim if not? [12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: does it work if the neighboring regions are in the same simulator? [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: it's our child seeing their root agent [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: oh maybe that is what it needs [12:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: some things used to work in that situation [12:05] Justin Clark-Casey: and at the moment that's not limited by distance server side [12:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya maybe it only worked if they are same simulator [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: that is very possible thats how it ever only worked [12:06] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) *waves* [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: see you dahlia [12:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Dahlia [12:06] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: tc Dahlia [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: with a small tweak you could deliver but you couldn't account for distance [12:06] Nicky Perian: later [12:06] Justin Clark-Casey: by dahlia [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: so it would broadcast to entire sim? [12:06] Nebadon Izumi: or how would that work? [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: you just change Chatmodule.DeliverChatToAvatars to deliver to all agents, not just root agents. And youignore the distance check [12:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: or figure the distance on a point outside the region [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: makes you wonder how they do it in SL [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: assuming I'm correct about how tihs works [12:07] Dahlia Trimble is offline. [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: so ya it would broadcast to the entire region [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it would be interesting to know which approach they take [12:07] Nebadon Izumi: that would be bad [12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: when you get near the border [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: does the neighbor sim get any extra info [12:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think the thing with regions in the same sim was IM (at one time) [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: i recall in the past that there was a problem with lag [12:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: prims to avatar IM [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: when you got near the border because of comms [12:08] Nebadon Izumi: we must be telling the neighbor region something when we get near the edge? [12:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: was that when they used remoting? [12:08] Sarah Kline: must go byes [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: see you Sarah [12:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: bye Sarah [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I should get going. [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya i guess we will need to think about that [12:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya Andrew [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: btw, I hope to look at the avatar kicking problem soon [12:09] logger sewell: tc Andrew [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: See everyone next week. [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: it certainly makes having all the regions next to each other less desirable if cross border chat is not working [12:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah. In addition to cross border texture baking not working [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: right [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: though we can get around that in some circumstances [12:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ahhh [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect we have enough time to solve both of those issues [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: like a small grid [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Once I get 075 compiling I will see where I stand on attachments to group notices [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i need to test in Avination [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: border cross chat [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: lol [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: if it works there we can probably get it [12:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: do we need some utility buss between the regions? [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks is offline. [12:10] Justin Clark-Casey: it might end up being easier to see what the capacity of a single region really is [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: and whether there are things that can be tweaked to adjust that [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: does a radar pick up on child agent locations? [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: ok [12:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they dont' in SL [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: child agents have no location [12:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: in most cases [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: how does the veiwer know where to render the avatar then? [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it gets that directly from the simulator? [12:11] vegaslon plutonian: secondlife I am sure uses their grid wide coordinates [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: when you are in a region [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: in each neighbour region you have a child agent [12:11] dan banner: my radar tells me accurate distance for people in next door regions [12:11] Justin Clark-Casey: it is that child agent that receives data about people and objects in neighbouring regions [12:12] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: mine too [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: and sends it directly to the viewer? [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: yes [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: this does not flow between simulators [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: your talking about viewer rader [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: i meant the region radar LSL stuff [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: ben: yes, the viewer is effectivley fetching that informatio nseparately from each region [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: makes sense [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: the viewer has child agents in each neighbour [12:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: dan - a scripted radar based on llSensor? [12:12] dan banner: client side [12:12] Justin Clark-Casey: and aroot agent in your current sim [12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I should draw a diagram of this one day [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ok well step one before we spend anytime on this [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: is see if Avination has it [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: that could save us a lot of time [12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: alright [12:13] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, I need togo [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: its not the end of the world if we cant make that work though [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: just need to rethink stuff a bit [12:14] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks for the meeting, folks [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: see ya [12:14] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:8002: tc Justin [12:14] dan banner: bye justin [12:14] Justin Clark-Casey waves