Chat log from the meeting on 2022-01-11

 [11:00] Kayaker Magic: And I was hoping for a short meeting.... [11:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew [11:00] Ubit Umarov: oh and there is whit andrew [11:00] Ubit Umarov: white [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone. [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I can make it a short meeting. [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week. [11:00] Andrew Hellershanks grins [11:00] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: lol [11:01] Ubit Umarov: osgrid assests maybe done in 120 days still [11:01] Ubit Umarov: gezz [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Why a short meeting, Kayaker. [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: 120 days? Eek. [11:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to be white Andrew for quite some time to come. [11:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: gosh, which covid variant will we be on at that time? [11:01] Kayaker Magic: Ubit was joking about saying goodby, see you next week. [11:01] Jagga Meredith: zulu [11:01] Ubit Umarov: Pink andrew possible was worse andrew [11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I see my avatar in gray. [11:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: space gray [11:02] Kayaker Magic: Andrew: you are white to me, no textures [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: well, gray is off-white, sort of. [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:03] Jagga Meredith: I'm fine. But I haven't changed outfits in about 5 years [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he is probalby white, but the lighting makes it look light grey [11:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't changed outfit in a long time either. [11:03] Ubit Umarov: yes there are shades of grey here also [11:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think any of us have, haha [11:04] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: I seem to be the "lucky one" as I don't see anyone else as a gray or white avatar. Should I be buying a lottery ticket? [11:04] Ubit Umarov: ( and more than fifty) [11:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but that is only if you use the RLV viewer Ubit [11:04] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi everybody [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit has stopped wearing his Covid mask. [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: he gave up [11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Jamie [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Jamie [11:05] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi Jamie [11:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ... or the inventory is being migrated [11:07] Jagga Meredith: what was weekend outage about? [11:08] Ubit Umarov: oops mask?? [11:08] Ubit Umarov: Ohh noo [11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit has been busy in the past week. Touched a lot of files to address how some code was being generated. It may help a little bit with improving the performance of the grid code. [11:08] Ubit Umarov: fixed [11:09] Ubit Umarov: well no official information from osgrid [11:10] Ubit Umarov: but seems mariadb running in cluster / master -slave mode just did blow up again [11:10] Ubit Umarov: and replaced now by another fork of mysql [11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ouch [11:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: perhaps time to use a proper database [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: fork of mysql? [11:11] Ubit Umarov: yes [11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which would be? [11:11] Ubit Umarov: ( like mariadb was ) [11:11] Ubit Umarov: wlel i don't have official osgrid statements :) [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I guess they are not maintaining the fork [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I wondered what the name of the forked project is [11:12] Ubit Umarov: that assets services is not even opensimulator code [11:12] Ubit Umarov: but a private close solution.. so.. no much we can tell [11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so is it then a test grid any more? [11:13] Ubit Umarov: yeah possible test of that private close solution, not opensimulator, on that :) [11:13] Ubit Umarov: but lbsa is burning the (almost) last code [11:13] Ubit Umarov: so is this region [11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: burning? :) [11:14] Ubit Umarov: actuall this one is on last [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: burning CPU cycles [11:14] Ubit Umarov: yeah :) [11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah [11:14] Ubit Umarov: if i remember in old days if ICs prodution there was a optional burning stage [11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: burning or burn-in? [11:15] Ubit Umarov: whenre the ICs where placed on a circuit running several hours [11:15] Andrew Hellershanks: burn-in [11:15] Ubit Umarov: or that [11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: It would be burning when the test failed. ;) [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-) [11:16] Ubit Umarov: thing is that probabilty of a fault has a bath tube shape [11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the RS/6000 had a code on the HW console meaning "the CPU is on fire" [11:16] Ubit Umarov: high on first hours of a part life.. then high agai close to end [11:17] Ubit Umarov: so running the part before production did exclude more of those early fails [11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember some product that was being developed at a company I used to work for years ago put the devices in to a room for burn-in at high temperature. [11:18] Ubit Umarov: so for shot.. code burning at lbsa ;) [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: AFAIK all Apple devices are subject to burn-in before being sent to csutomers [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: csutomers* [11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: customers* [11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I would say that it is pretty common industry practice to do product burn-in [11:19] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes [11:19] Ubit Umarov: not really [11:19] Ubit Umarov: on consumer cheap products [11:19] Ubit Umarov: used to be.. not so much [11:20] Ubit Umarov: unless possible on high end products [11:20] Ubit Umarov: that parts that fail there are reuse on cheaper products ( i say :p ) [11:20] Ubit Umarov: wel but about opensim [11:20] Ubit Umarov: what news do you have? [11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL mentioned they will launch new features this year [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: In addition to the changes to save some time when doing some UUID tests or comparisons there was some update(s) to the libomv library. [11:22] Ubit Umarov: telling otherwise would mean "we are dead" :) [11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so keep your loins girded [11:22] Ubit Umarov: changes to libomv where related [11:22] Ubit Umarov: bc uuid code is at libomv and was change [11:22] Ubit Umarov: changed [11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I thought that was the case by the commit messages. [11:23] Ubit Umarov: so a lot of files changed [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: In reviewing Ubits changes I only noted about 3 or so other changes to be made but no errors. Took quite a while to review the commits as they hit so many files. [11:24] Ubit Umarov: with changes like auuid == UUID.Zero replaced by a new auuis.IsZero [11:24] Ubit Umarov: for example [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I wonder what diffstat would report as to the count of changes. [11:24] Ubit Umarov: first form means at least 2 blocks of 16bytes copies [11:25] Ubit Umarov: as part of argument passing to the function that does the == [11:25] Ubit Umarov: in real JIT code, and bc there where a chain of calls... there where like 8 copies [11:25] Ubit Umarov: all useless.. but well [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: It seems a little odd that it would need to copy data just to do a comparison. [11:26] Ubit Umarov: auuid.IsZero on the other is a no arguments call to a methog that does check of zero [11:26] Ubit Umarov: so a lot faster [11:26] Andrew Hellershanks: I would have thought it could have done the comparison in place using the original variable location. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: yeah Trust on compilers :P [11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. It can be quite revealing to look at the generated assembler code. [11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: by copying it to both sides, the test will always be true [11:27] Ubit Umarov: and != could even have another set of copies [11:28] Ubit Umarov: for example [11:28] Ubit Umarov: if(ua != ub) was [11:28] Ubit Umarov:   00007FFB371C10FB vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+200h]   00007FFB371C1105 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+118h],xmm0   00007FFB371C110F vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+210h]   00007FFB371C1119 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+108h],xmm0   00007FFB371C1123 vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+118h]   00007FFB371C112D vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0F8h],xmm0   00007FFB371C1137 vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+108h]  <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1141 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0E8h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C114B vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+0F8h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1155 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+38h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C115C vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+0E8h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1166 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+28h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C116D lea         rcx,[rsp+38h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C [11:28] Ubit Umarov: rdx,[rsp+28h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1177 call        System.Guid.op_Equality(System.Guid, System.Guid) (07FFB8FD4BE90h) <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C117C test        al,al <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C117E jne         testlixo.Program.Main(System.String[])+03E2h ( [11:29] Ubit Umarov: in windows release mode, i7 native code [11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: What was the code doing previously for the zero check? [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks: While Ubit chews on that question, any other questions about OpenSim? [11:32] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: none from me [11:32] Andrew Hellershanks looks at Kayaker [11:32] Ubit Umarov: was same [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Michael. [11:33] Bill's Chair whispers: This is Bill's Chair [11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Michael [11:33] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hello! [11:33] Ubit Umarov: UUID.Zero is a uuid like other, taking place of ub there [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: You can't sit there, Michael. Pick another seat. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: so same code [11:33] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. [11:34] Kayaker Magic: I'm good this week [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone else? [11:34] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: nothing new here this week, still waiting on the replacement developer system to arrive :/ [11:35] Ubit Umarov: now: [11:35] Ubit Umarov: 118:            if (ua.IsZero) 00007FFB371B3317 cmp         qword ptr [rsp+190h],0 00007FFB371B3320 jne         00007FFB371B332F 00007FFB371B3322 cmp         qword ptr [rsp+198h],0 00007FFB371B332B jne         00007FFB371B332F [11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: Santa is a bit slow on his delivery of the system, Michael? ;) [11:35] Ubit Umarov: just compares 4 ulongs [11:35] Ubit Umarov: and direct, and inline.. no copies [11:36] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: lol yea. We ordered back in December and it just went to "shipping" status today *eye roll* [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: right, try purchase a 8GB Raspberry PI somewhere [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can get them at 3x normal price [11:36] Ubit Umarov: also now [11:36] Ubit Umarov: 115:             if (ua != ub) 00007FFB371B32C9  vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+190h]  00007FFB371B32D3  vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0E8h],xmm0  00007FFB371B32DD  vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+1A0h]  00007FFB371B32E7  vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0D8h],xmm0  00007FFB371B32F1  mov         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0E8h]  00007FFB371B32F9  cmp         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0D8h]  00007FFB371B3301  jne         00007FFB371B3315  00007FFB371B3303  mov         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0F0h] 00007FFB371B330B cmp         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0E0h] 00007FFB371B3313 je          00007FFB371B3317 [11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I just have my 4G Pi 4. [11:36] Ubit Umarov: just one copy [11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the 4GB is also out of stock all over [11:36] Ubit Umarov: and the compare is now compare fo 2 ulongs also inline [11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Canon are asking their customers to break printer toner DRM as they cannot get the chips for the toners anymore [11:37] Ubit Umarov: vmovdqu is a intel AVX (sse) intruction that moves 16 bytes ( a a xmm register ) [11:38] Ubit Umarov: well as i said in other commits "save some CO2" "useless changes" [11:38] Ubit Umarov: bc we basicly see no effects :p [11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: I wouldn't call the changes useless. [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: how about mono - I guess the asemly generated by mono is rather different [11:38] Ubit Umarov: normal inwold users don't notice [11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: assembly* [11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeah mono JIT is dif [11:39] Ubit Umarov: and can even be the ms one on the llvm one [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: No, normal users wouldn't but the people running a grid will notice the improvement. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeha hope this means less overall cpu load [11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not to mention if mono also use LLVM [11:39] Ubit Umarov: llvm is optional [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mono on macOS is llvm standard [11:40] Ubit Umarov: same say that ms jit is now faster.. some dont [11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which makes it a bit faster [11:40] Ubit Umarov: wlel that past i did was a big JIT optimization fail [11:40] Ubit Umarov: all those copies are useless [11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hopefully llvm strips the mess out [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: It is hard to get usable stats on the improvement because even an "idle" region still has bursts of activity. I think the change might have dropped the CPU load for my standalone by about 1% but the numbers were bouncing around. [11:41] Ubit Umarov: even on the new compare [11:41] Ubit Umarov: <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C10FB vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+200h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1105 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+118h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C110F vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+210h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1119 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+108h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1123 vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+118h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C112D vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0F8h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1137 vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+108h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1141 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0E8h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C114B vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+0F8h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1155 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+38h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C115C vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+0E8h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1166 vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+28h],xmm0 <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C116D lea         rcx,[rsp+38h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C [11:41] Ubit Umarov: rdx,[rsp+28h] <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C1177 call        System.Guid.op_Equality(System.Guid, System.Guid) (07FFB8FD4BE90h) <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C117C test        al,al <Ubit_> <Ubit_> 00007FFB371C117E jne         testlixo.Program.Main(System.String[])+03E2h ( [11:41] Ubit Umarov: those copies are also useless [11:41] Andrew Hellershanks: wb, Jamie [11:41] Ubit Umarov: but per spec [11:41] Ubit Umarov: oops this is the old [11:42] Ubit Umarov: 115:             if (ua != ub) 00007FFB371B32C9  vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+190h]  00007FFB371B32D3  vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0E8h],xmm0  00007FFB371B32DD  vmovdqu     xmm0,xmmword ptr [rsp+1A0h]  00007FFB371B32E7  vmovdqu     xmmword ptr [rsp+0D8h],xmm0  00007FFB371B32F1  mov         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0E8h]  00007FFB371B32F9  cmp         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0D8h]  00007FFB371B3301  jne         00007FFB371B3315  00007FFB371B3303  mov         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0F0h]  00007FFB371B330B  cmp         rcx,qword ptr [rsp+0E0h]  00007FFB371B3313  je          00007FFB371B3317 [11:43] Ubit Umarov: this is also stupid JIT code.. better but stupid [11:43] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks i'm crashy for some reason [11:43] Ubit Umarov: JIT detected theat was no need to call a funtion [11:43] Ubit Umarov: but failed to see that the respecitve arguments copies are also not needed [11:44] Ubit Umarov: well i just lauch when clever ppl tells one should trust compilers [11:44] Ubit Umarov: laught also [11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, it was better in the old days when you could hit halt, correct the code in core and continue [11:45] Ubit Umarov: also == is bad [11:46] Ubit Umarov: means 2 arguments [11:46] Ubit Umarov: while auuid.Equals(other) is only 1 argument [11:47] Ubit Umarov: so yeahh compilers are clever and see all things for us... they say [11:47] Ubit Umarov: LOL [11:47] Ubit Umarov: whatver [11:47] Ubit Umarov: changed the low level code on libopenmetaverse [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: I had a problem one time with some code. When I dug in to the generated assembler I found that the compiler was messing around with the \n character in a string. It should have left it alone and it would be translated in to the characters used by the operating system during the output of the string. The compiler maker said they followed the ANSI standard. Handling of \n certainly wasn't being done per K&R. [11:47] Ubit Umarov: and them on a ton of places where we use it [11:48] Ubit Umarov: yeah problems with compilers are as old as compilets [11:48] Ubit Umarov: gcc was very fun and still is [11:48] Ubit Umarov: very (NOT)  fun [11:49] Ubit Umarov: this at least do produce correct results!! [11:49] Ubit Umarov: and JIT was cleave to see the cpu cna copy 16bytes on a single instruction [11:49] Ubit Umarov: not bas [11:49] Ubit Umarov: not bad [11:50] Ubit Umarov: except my typos [11:50] Ubit Umarov: "and JIT was clever to see tha the cpu can copy 16bytes on a single instruction" [11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:50] Ubit Umarov: THAT nor tha [11:50] Ubit Umarov: uff [11:50] Ubit Umarov: get a UbitTranslator [11:50] Ubit Umarov: :p [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: naww... most, if not all, of us here can read typonese. [11:51] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: How many times is that, Jamie? [11:51] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: dont most of us writ in typonese ;) [11:51] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now he is treading water, so he has to relog to clear that [11:52] Ubit Umarov: i did enforce max og 64k on osmakenotecard also [11:52] Ubit Umarov: "revert the slowdown of osMessageObject. Also reduce the slowdown osMessageAttachments to (100 + 10 *NumberTargetedPrims) miliseconds. Some action games shown a bit of visible negative impact, so lets test " [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: A reasonable limit, Ubit. 64k of text is a lot of text to read. Most wouldn't read an NC with that much text in it. [11:53] Ubit Umarov: a game here in osg had visible negative impact [11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok? [11:53] Ubit Umarov: "* proper bypass lludp header extra bytes, even if not seen so far " [11:53] Ubit Umarov: this is more of a useless change [11:54] Ubit Umarov: happens that LLUDP protocol suports longe packets headers [11:54] Ubit Umarov: out code would blowup if that happened [11:54] Ubit Umarov: now will just over the extra bytes if present [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well never seen a viewer and any use of such bytes [11:55] Ubit Umarov: but it is a formal protocol fix [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Jamie just went *poof* again. [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: We are just a few minutes away from the top of the hour. Any last minute questions or comments? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: guess that covers last week code changes [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Anything viewer related, Gavin? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: not many bug reports [11:56] Ubit Umarov: one i still can't repo [11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not really [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I do have a viewer question. [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL said they will add new features that requires viewer changes this year [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no mention on what [11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure [11:57] Ubit Umarov: gavin that was "no news" :) [11:57] Ubit Umarov: part of meeting [11:57] Ubit Umarov: ofc they will add something [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: new features are stuff like Bento or soemthing [11:58] Ubit Umarov: bet they have a ton of feature requests also [11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: real viewer cahnges [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes when I enter a coordinate for a prim in the Build dialog it goes in as I typed it. Other times it has some extra non-zero digit added. I can force it back to the three decimal places I entered by changing the number then changing it back. Any ideas why that happens? [11:59] Ubit Umarov: Kb to chair interface issue? [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: The viewer is quite capable of handling 3 decimal places. Always a pain when it wants to add some extra digit or two. [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most likely some floating point inaccuracy [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, but if I enter some other value then enter what I originally entered it usually sticks. [11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen it occasionally in my viewer [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. Doesn't happen all the time but it is annoying. [11:59] Ubit Umarov: yeha some numbers back from float are not as we typed [12:00] Ubit Umarov: bc have no exact representation [12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which viewer is this? [12:01] Ubit Umarov: but a round bf display should hide that [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Some won't but if I'm able to put in another number then what I wanted and it sticks that seems to indicate it isn't always a representation issue. [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, um... I think all the ones I've used. [12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Most recently in Firestorm. [12:01] Kayaker Magic: I've had a problem where the viewer just doesn;t display all the digits in a number, if you scroll the little window left, you will see them [12:02] Kayaker Magic: So I sometimes get a combination of those invisible digits added to what I type. [12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some of the code that handles formatting is ancient, and even the xml for how the UI is laid out can be different from field to filed depending on when it was originally generated [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, that can happen as the window only show so many digits at a time. [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe... it should store the numbers in BCD format. No problem. ;) [12:03] Ubit Umarov: no idea when we will actuall add a new feature to opensim :( [12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Did LL say what new features they are planning to add? [12:04] Ubit Umarov: no andrew was just a "sure we will have something" [12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the xml that lays out a field in the UI can be stacked many ways, and depending on what comes before what, it is getting bounced around different functions, so yeah [12:04] Ubit Umarov: and ll adding a feature does not mean we will :) [12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IDK [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, of course not. [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: PBR is a big request [12:05] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: PBR ? [12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Pabst Blue Ribbon?? [12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: physics based rendering [12:05] Kayaker Magic: LOL [12:05] Ubit Umarov: wee seen no feedback about 0.9.2.0 release [12:06] Ubit Umarov: in fact not even coments [12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physically_based_rendering [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. That makes more sense. Mind you, the coders might prefer some of the other version of PBR. [12:06] Ubit Umarov: guess many grids where already on it [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I wouldn't count on that. A lot had not even upgraded to 0.9 or had been slow to adopt it. I wouldn't expect a fast migration to 0.9.2 [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I also suspect they may launch an xbox version of the viewer [12:07] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: LL xbox viewer?!? [12:07] Ubit Umarov: physical base rendering is called "Bob Ross" [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah xbox [12:07] Ubit Umarov: laso includes "happy little trees" etc [12:07] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which will reguire PBR [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, :) [12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but we shall see [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks nod [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Any final thoughts, comments, or questions before we wrap up todays gathering? [12:09] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Im good :_) [12:09] Ubit Umarov: whats for dinner? [12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that was 3 hours ago [12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Stir Fry [12:09] Michael.Christopher @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: im good too lol [12:09] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: yeah i'm hungry [12:10] Kayaker Magic: leftover roast duck [12:10] Ubit Umarov: Dann and you didn't call me gavin ? [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, I'll let you head out in search of food if you haven't already eaten. [12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have some lunch trays bought on Kitely [12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: That will do it for today. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.