Chat log from the meeting on 2016-08-30

[11:00] Sheera Khan: So great to see lots of progress in GIT ant Mantis :-) [11:01] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ubit! My favorite physics programmer! [11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, it is. [11:02] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Awesome kite kayaker :) [11:02] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, cool. [11:02] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thanks! [11:03] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Who knew there would be enough wind from the open side of this building to allow you to fly a kite. :) [11:03] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: took security precautions... [11:03] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:04] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I started scripting it to use the wind, but it is more fun to just direct it back and forth [11:04] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: It's right in front of my camera now - how fun. [11:05] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Look great! [11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit has been a bit of a one man coding machine the last few weeks. Lots of commits from him fixing all sorts of issues. [11:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: impressive! [11:06] Sheera Khan: really it is :-) [11:07] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: For those of you who are using git master I was wondering if you have noticed any issues with uploading mesh objects. [11:08] Ubit Umarov: and breaking who knows how many ;) [11:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not really [11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, shh. [11:08] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :) [11:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have a question about HG landmarks and adresses. Some old landmarks I made still work, like the one that got me here from Kitely. [11:08] Ubit Umarov: oops :) [11:08] Sheera Khan: Is there a special reason why we can move an avatar via script to a specific position but not turn it to an arbitrary direction? Like it could be used in a hugging animation? [11:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: but new landmarks never seem to work for HG [11:09] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: What has changed? [11:09] Ubit Umarov: i add code to turn the avatar to the lookAT in local osteleports [11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Are they the same style of HG LM's? [11:09] Ubit Umarov: possible in others... but on same viewers may have a diferent idea [11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... nm. I'm thinking of externally supplied links to places in the hyperverse [11:11] Sheera Khan: I was thinking of a hugger where two people walk to a common place (or one walks up to the other) and then gets/gives a hug [11:11] Sheera Khan: so TPs won't do the trick so easily ... [11:12] Sheera Khan: but the turn to lookAt at TP is very useful too :-) just in other applications [11:12] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, Do the new HG LMs give any error messages when you try to use them? [11:12] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Often a LM to the welcome area in another grid works, but a direct LM to a region in the same grid does not. [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, but that could be the grid not allowing direct HG teleports [11:14] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I forget not responding, TP fails... [11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only to the default or welcome region [11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, That is one possible reason. The way to test that would be to try an HG TP to the LM using the map. [11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Robust has a NodirectLogin setting for Hypergrid [11:18] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: So bug the grid admin in that case, see if they did it on purpose [11:19] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev       4e1784d: 2016-08-30 08:56:35 +0100 (Unix/Mono) [11:20] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: so is lookAt specified in a teleport? [11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, I would have to check the LSL and OSSL functions. I'm not sure if there is a method of specifying a rotation when moving an avatar. It would be useful for a hugger. [11:21] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: landmarks have a lookAT no? [11:22] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: IIRC, yes but until recently the code has been ignoring that info. [11:22] vegaslon plutonian: you can specify a rotation on a npc but not a avatar right now [11:22] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: is ignored in SL too i think. [11:22] Sheera Khan: yes, that's why I asked if there's a reason why such a function is missing [11:23] Sheera Khan: or if I overlooked the one capable of doing so [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sheera, Probably just that no one has thought to implement such a function [11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it might have something with animation start too [11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I will have to pull up the function list and also look at a hugger script I have. [11:24] Sheera Khan: SL is lacking that too, so I thought there might be a reason for it [11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not to get arkward jumps / moves [11:24] Ubit Umarov: is lookAt is a osteleport parameter [11:24] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I seem to recall that one of the TP functions has a lookat, but it doesn't work [11:24] Sheera Khan: yes, I just looked it up [11:25] Ubit Umarov: it does tell the viewer to set that camera to it [11:25] Ubit Umarov: i made it also rotate the avatar [11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: You can set the rotation if you use llSitTarget. [11:26] Sheera Khan: hmmm, so I could osTeleport to the same position I'm at and rotating the avatar by that call? [11:26] vegaslon plutonian: you can also in SL rotate a avatar with rotational impulses [11:27] Sheera Khan: but that would only work in the case where I'm on a parcel where the owner owns the scripted hugger too [11:27] Sheera Khan: ok, that might work too @vega [11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: ApplyRotationalImpulse only works in physics enabled objects [11:29] vegaslon plutonian: avatars are physical [11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... true [11:32] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Is this the related issue? http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7931 [11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I will have to track down a hugger I have in inventory somewhere and take alook at what it does. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: yes i added the rotation for that mantis [11:34] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty. [11:34] Ubit Umarov: ( didn't test that much.. ) [11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I haven't had much time for code work in the past week due to family related activities. [11:38] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Is it silly to ask Ubit.. how did you choose to work on this issue? [11:38] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: Sorry guys, got to go... will read transcript. [11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I recently updated the template used by the OSSL pages to includes two pieces of information that were not included when the OSSL function pages were first created. [11:39] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: The lookAt in TP has bothered me before and I'm glad it could work - trying to guide avatars and all. [11:40] Basil Sosides: diva.mysql.dll dont work any more ? [11:40] Nebadon Izumi: the diva stuff tends to only work on the release [11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: having look at will be useful for landing points where you want people to be facing towards a particular item or landmark. [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: so if you are trying to use it on a -dev version it may fail Basil [11:41] Basil Sosides: ok [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise diva would be recompiling and making new releases constantly [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: its just too much work for her [11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Basil, it was working for you but now it isn't or are you setting it up for the first time? [11:41] Nebadon Izumi: once 0.9 release hits though she will make a compatible version of WiFi available to everyone [11:42] Basil Sosides: is Diva sleeping ? [11:42] Nebadon Izumi: shes probably working at the moment :) [11:43] Nebadon Izumi: she is on California time [11:43] Basil Sosides: oh, yes she will [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately there was a lot of changes from 0.8.2 to 0.9, well only unfortunate in that its very likely it would stop diva stuff from working [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise its a lot of good stuff :) [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: I am sure she is aware though [11:44] Nebadon Izumi: we are planning on upgrading Encitra grid to 0.9 [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: so shes going to have to fix it at some point soon :) [11:45] Basil Sosides: other Question please [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: sure [11:45] Basil Sosides: why must i confirm Friendship more and more [11:45] Basil Sosides: when i relog [11:45] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: oh yes [11:45] Nebadon Izumi: i assume you mean for HG friends [11:46] Basil Sosides: NO !!! Friend inside OSgrid [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: you have to accept the friendship on both grids [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: hmm I am not sure [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I know for HG friends you have to accept the friendship on both grids [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: you should not have to do that though if both users are in the same grid [11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sounds odd. I've never had to accept friend requests more than once within a grid. [11:46] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: oh wow - I did not know that. [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it could be that you were perhaps at one point outside of the grid [11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and then coming back in is causing wierdness [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: would have to figure out exactly what the trigger is though [11:47] Basil Sosides: me and my Friend canceled the Friedship [11:47] Ubit Umarov: ( landpoints lookAt should rotate the avatar also now... but didn't test) [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: its possible there is a bad entry in the database [11:47] Nebadon Izumi: let Dan Banner know [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: he can fix it for you if its endless loop [11:48] Basil Sosides: but i must confirm it when i login [11:48] Ubit Umarov: err better have lookAt..Z = 0 [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: ok ya shoot Dan Banner a message [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: he has a query he can run to fix you [11:48] Basil Sosides: #- OK ! -# [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: as long as you are talking about OSGrid :) [11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, you don't want people looking down at their feet? [11:48] Nebadon Izumi: if it's another grid you would have to talk with their grid admin [11:48] Ubit Umarov: viewers set 0 also [11:48] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: regarding friending - can offer/accept be done on a grid not home to either avatar? [11:48] Ubit Umarov: or smoke [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: James should be able to yes [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but again you will have to accept friendship once in that grid [11:49] Nebadon Izumi: and then once again when you get back home [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: that is correct behavior [11:50] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ok ty, I will try that. [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if you keep getting friendship offer on every log in [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: then thats a bug, we havent figured out why that happens [11:50] Ubit Umarov: actuall warp3d also add a bug when looking up or down [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: but it can be fixed by removing an entry from the friends table in the back end database [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: usually its a double entry [11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall correctly [11:51] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: ah, that could be my issue too. [11:51] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm happy to see that warp3d tiles no longer have the white strip down the right hand end of the tile. [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea its like there is 2 entries in the db [11:51] Basil Sosides: yes must be something like this Neb [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and you accept the friendship [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: andit only updates one of them [11:51] Nebadon Izumi: so its and endless loop [11:52] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes - that a symptom I have too. [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but so far no one has figured out why the double entry happens [11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its most definitely something related to HG [11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sounds like there should be a constraint on the database to only allow one pair of requests at any time [11:52] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: @warp3d - is there a public grid to see the tile engine at work? [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: the OSgrid release has that tile enabled by default [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: just look at this region on the maptile [11:53] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: OK - ty :) [11:53] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: nebadon, sounds a bit like the problem that used to happen with duplicate entries in the GridUser table. [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yea [11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if i had to guess it's some kind of wierdness when a local user exits the grid [11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: nebadon, I added an extra constraint on the table to eliminate that. [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: then comes back into the grid [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: and accepts a local friendship [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: it thinks its still in HG mode [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so both requests get sent to OSgrid server [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: but no one has been able to actually trigger it on demand [11:54] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Some situation where the avatar didn't log out properly before returning? [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: so some other factor too [11:54] Nebadon Izumi: OSgrid is likely more prone to it [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: ie. viewer crash [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: since things are so spread out [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: and so many different versions of simulators [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: it may not even be a bug we can fix [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: short of forcing the entire grid to update [11:55] Nebadon Izumi: which isnt really an option [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: If multiple entries are found in the DB it is worth comparing the two. If they are identical you can work around the issue by adding a unique specifier to one of the database tables. [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats the thing [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i dont think they are exactly identical [11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. That is a problem. [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: one is in HG form, other is in Local form [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: but they point to the same user [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: and when you accept it only updates one of them [11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so everytime you log back in [11:57] Nebadon Izumi: it thinks oh this is a new friend [11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: That would require a different type of search of the db to see if an entry exists in any form before adding in an entry. [11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Could the issue also arise if someone HG TP'ed to a grid then locally joined the grid at the same time? [11:58] Ubit Umarov: vegas seen ubode mouse steer ? [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I'd like to see steer by 3D mouse for an airplane. :) [12:00] Ubit Umarov: wear a damm good helmet :p [12:00] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol [12:00] Nebadon Izumi: haha [12:00] vegaslon plutonian: yes [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe [12:01] vegaslon plutonian: flying a airplanes with a joystick in sl/opensim is very rewarding [12:02] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: yes [12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I've tried flying a plane via keyboard. It doesn't end well. [12:02] Ubit Umarov: ufff i could not move a thing at sl [12:02] Ubit Umarov: special with bank [12:03] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: I've got kayaks and surfboards you can steer by turning your head while wearing the Occulus [12:03] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Oculus? What viewer do you use? [12:03] vegaslon plutonian: banking in secondlife works terrible on cubes have to make tires or have it be a boat or helicopter [12:05] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ctrlaltdelete viewer [12:05] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: ty :) [12:05] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Oculus dev2, old viewer [12:05] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: color me impressed :) [12:07] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: I've tried with VRridge/riftCAT for cardboard but no luck so far. [12:07] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: @map tiles - I see a tile in the mini-map but not in world map. Does engine supply both? [12:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: The oculus is in mouselook mode, llGetCameraRot is the direction you are looking [12:08] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: decay your velocity vector towards that direction, and a boat turns nicely [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: ah that's another problem with Map [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: HG visitors may not see external grid maptiles [12:09] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: wow. ty Kayaker. [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: i forgot about that [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: however [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: http://my.osgrid.org/region.php?region_name=Wright%20Plaza [12:09] Nebadon Izumi: there you go :) [12:10] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I can see the map tile in the map with FS 4.7.9 [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: yea I think that bug may be limited to Singularity viewer [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: i can't remember now [12:10] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: OH. huh.  I'm in FS 4.7.7 [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: it also may be how the other grid is configured [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: Metro and OSgrid are very similar [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: Kitely is a tad bit different [12:10] Nebadon Izumi: on the back end [12:11] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Ah yes Kitely.  I wondered. [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it could just be that Kitely isnt running the latest code yet too [12:11] Ubit Umarov: some values of vehicle parameters cause instability [12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it wouldnt make sense for Kitely to be on the -dev branch [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: where as Metro and OSgrid are [12:12] Ubit Umarov: i did internally increased the verticalAtractor time scale [12:12] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Metro is mostly 0.8.3 though [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: It is past the hour. I need to log out and attend to some family things. [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not sure, i do remember there being issues with HG and maptiles [12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its possible in newer code it is fixed though [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: The rest of you are welcome to continue the meeting. Sheera is logging the meeting. [12:13] Ubit Umarov: or the hoverbije test would be unstable [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get back to work myself [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ive actually been working this whole time [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: have 2 viewers side by side 50% of the screen each [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: lol [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: doing alot of repetative texturing [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: so wasnt too distracting :) [12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: ty, Sheera. [12:13] Kayaker.Magic @grid.kitely.com:8002: Kitely is still on 0.8.2 [12:13] vegaslon plutonian: ya that is alot of trees [12:13] Ubit Umarov: btw vegas this ubOde does anything similar to sl ? [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: ok well it could very well just be a slight skew in code versions [12:13] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt take much [12:14] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thanks everyone. [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: and this is one of the things that really can complicate finding bugs [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: because sometimes the bugs are already fixed [12:14] Nebadon Izumi: but they linger for a long time [12:14] vegaslon plutonian: as you know there is a lot of spring to the movement in SL [12:15] James.Atlloud @grid.kitely.com:8002: I'm gonna find my os avatar and look at the maps again. [12:15] Ubit Umarov: whats wrong with maps ? [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: he cant see the OSgrid map tiles [12:15] Nebadon Izumi: from a HG Kitely user [12:16] Ubit Umarov: HG only uses the assets maps [12:16] Ubit Umarov: if i remember [12:16] Ubit Umarov: HG does not suport V2 maps [12:16] Nebadon Izumi: ah ya maybe that is it [12:17] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: then why can I see the maps? [12:17] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I'm on HG too [12:17] Ubit Umarov: and for some reason osg is refusing the asset map upload on my region [12:18] Ubit Umarov: bc we still use v2 maps on normal regions [12:18] Ubit Umarov: i mean v1 [12:18] Ubit Umarov: large regions will show up with normalsize :( [12:20] Ubit Umarov: well in other words.. we create both v1 and v2 maps [12:20] Ubit Umarov: HG only sends information about v1 if i remember